Comments by Julie Greene, MFA

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  • Hello Itay,

    Thanks for this wonderful piece. A long time ago, I stayed in a place like that which ended up being closed down. I’m not sure why. It is described in the last chapter of my memoir, This Hunger Is Secret, which I published about a decade ago. It is now free for anyone to read. You can find it on my blog, http://juliemadblogger.com.

    It was my case manager’s idea to send me there. This was after shock treatments when I was having trouble thinking straight. I was frustrated and hopeless that I would ever get my mind back. They were going to send me to a state hospital. I went to the respite house instead. It was not at all like any place I’d ever been before. This was around the end of September, 1997.

    What was amazing was that there was this lack of hierarchy that was truly refreshing. The staff did not have those insulting “professional boundaries” that I saw in other places. They shared their lives with me. They even drove us in their own vehicles if we needed a ride. They weren’t therapists and weren’t trained as therapists, although one of them did end up converting.

    Not only that, but they had this staff office but it wasn’t off limits to the residents. We could come in there anytime we wanted. The door was open and there certainly wasn’t any insulting bullet-proof glass separating the staff office from the rest of the living space.

    You could come and go as you pleased. I had my bike there, too. They let me park it in the hallway. I can’t recall now how many weeks I stayed there.

    I spent a lot of my time just writing in my notebook. This was a habit I had developed as a result of shock treatments, but it grew into something more. I left the respite house. I was okay. By January, I was doing more serious writing. I enrolled in an adult ed writing class. In March I decided to try going back to college. I succeeded. I finished the first draft of a novel by August, 1998.

    I am not saying that the respite house was what saved me. I saved me. Good luck and lots of writing saved me. They allowed me the space to do it. I’m grateful.

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  • John,

    I was hoping you would write a piece for MIA, and I’m glad you did. I love the way you have described the white-clad slavedrivers who claim they’re only following orders. You really nailed them.

    Occasionally, I saw one or two try to break the rules and be kind. One of them did this telling me she’d lose her job if anyone knew. The other tried, but the doctor forced her into submission. She was taken off my case. One day, I saw her in the hallway. She looked at me with these sad eyes. I’ll never forget that.

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  • Bippy, you need them to tell you the numbers. Ask what your creatinine level is. If they insist it is “fine,” then you need to demand that they give you the number. “Fine” might mean fine by mental patient standards. The test here in the US is called a Basic Metabolic Panel. I suspect that it might be called something different in the UK. That panel tells you electrolyte levels also. I would suggest cutting way down on salt to help the swelling. There are herbs you can take for it, too.

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  • It is sad indeed that some people are so isolated that they feel they must resort to paying for “support,” in other words, “therapy.”

    There are still support systems in some areas for those that do not have any.

    I usually spend holidays alone, but I found out a local coffee shop is hosting a Thanksgiving event. If you look hard enough you will find support other than “therapy.” My main issue with “therapy” is that it tends to be a black hole that people can’t get out of. Who would want that, if they knew?

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  • Dr. Mary Dyer-Martin prescribed Marci’s drugs. She should be held responsible. When you put yourself in the hands of a doctor, you supposedly trust that doctor, too. Once you are on one drug, you might end up “out of it” and unable to comprehend that maybe you are on too much or too many. Breggin refers to this as “spellbinding,” and it’s very true. When you are drugged up, it’s the doctor’s responsibility to recognize this. It’s the doctor’s responsibility not to overdrug a patient. Now, if a person buys drugs on their own, then the responsibility is theirs and theirs alone. This is why some of us advocate for the abolition of the Power of the Prescription. When you are out of it from drugs, you’re likely to do anything the doctor says.

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  • One time, my fellow patient begged for a placebo. I wasn’t sure why. Placebos work quite well. You would think they cause no harm. Psych placebos still cause dependency and the notion that one is diseased. I believe that placebos only work on humans because we can experience hope and foresight. The animal sense of foresight is minimal by comparison. I don’t think they have any concept of a god, or of praying to something. I don’t think they need to. They seem more secure in themselves than we are.

    I also don’t think the concept of Parent God is present much outside Christianity.

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  • I have found that very consistently, if a person is down on their luck, people run away fast. Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

    I paid thousands of dollars to a scammer this summer and when I figured out it was a scam I was able to get part of my money back, but not my sense of well-being. Where are the phone calls and emails of support when I need them? People pulled away and I feel very alone.

    Some blame me for feeling like crap after what happened, or blame me for not “getting over it” when really, they weren’t the ones who were scammed, and they don’t know what it’s like.

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  • I am saddened that mostly, what will help people is information, accurate, complete, and relevant information.

    Such as….legal information about landlord/tenant laws, information about what constitutes domestic abuse, information about job openings in the area, or informing the person that “the pill” can cause depression.

    I guess that’s why search engines seem to be a popular way to get “help.” I would trust a search engine over a psychiatrist any day!

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  • Registered, I don’t get that. So you’re saying if a person isn’t lucid, they have no ability to make a responsible choice? Who decides who is lucid and who isn’t? Psychiatry.

    I also agree that suicide is a personal choice. We don’t know people’s situations. We can’t get into their heads, which is really a good thing, when you think about it. If we do, we’ve gone too far.

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  • Frank, I just read an article by people in the economics field who make six-figure salaries. All of them stated that we need more of the humanities in the colleges, not less. Many stated that in the employment world, and especially if one is a CEO of a company, the most important skill they learned in college was communication. The article further stated that people who major in the arts (music, writing, fine arts, dance, etc) end up making equal salaries to those who majored in a STEM field. The difference is right after college, where STEM grads are more likely to get a good job. After a decade, it evens out. (When you die it won’t matter anyway.)

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  • fnert, Abolishing psychiatry does not impose on the rights of those who choose it. Right to psychiatry is not a human right that I know of. Do I have the right to astrology? Not really. I have the choice to go to an astrologer…or maybe not. The freedom to choose for oneself, that’s a human right. I also have the choice to become a drug dealer, but if I chose that,I would be breaking the law and I might get in trouble. Still, I have the right to choose. I hope I choose wisely.

    Even if psychiatry is banned, people will have the right to choose it. It will be an unwise choice, but come to think of it, many people, myself included, make bad choices.

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  • Yes, I believe it was 1985. And it was Carl Pfeiffer and the Brain Bio Center. I can’t believe my parents drove me there and suckered into it. He poked fun at me, I recall. It’s in my memoir. I didn’t know how to react. I remember telling my mother that we needed to listen to the real doctors, the psychiatrists.

    Years later, I had forgotten about Pfeiffer totally. In 2014 I dug up the paper he had given me. I was fairly sure the dietary recommendations he gave me were the carbon copy of what he told everyone else, but there it was.

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  • I personally loved college. I learned a lot and thrived in that environment. I felt like I mattered, even though in many ways it was totally fake. When you get out you realize this. You might matter while you’re a student. After all, students generate income for the colleges. Students make the college look great.

    Is anyone else out there disgusted that once you finish college the only time the college EVER contacts you again is to ask for money? That’s when you realize you’re not useful to them anymore. Your money is useful. You aren’t.

    Years ago, I remember one day when I was starving and out of it, one of my former colleges called me up for that yearly plea for donations. When I saw the college in my caller ID, I told myself that they were inviting me to do a reading or give a talk, that they finally recognized that I had written and published a book and they actually remembered what a good student I was. I can see why I continued to starve after I found out what the real agenda was, and what most people’s real agenda is.

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  • I agree! Why work for them? I know some people who call themselves “peers” and when I have talked to them, they actually say they can’t get a job doing anything else.

    That, I suppose, may very well be true if they walk into their next job interview saying they are ex-patients. I can’t believe they’d devalue themselves that way. YES, you can do other things. You just have to give it a try. And…just omit a few things from the backstory.

    If you train to do something new, you are just as valuable as any other trainee. The playing field is even if you keep some stuff to yourself.

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  • I am sure BCHarris has had plenty of experience.

    In the memoir I wrote and published, I have a section on my experience with an orthomolecular doctor. The memoir did not sell and I have taken it off the market, but it’s still available FOR FREE at my blog, if you are interested.

    I also did not have a very good experience. My parents had pushed me into it and they had driven me all the way to Princeton hoping for a miracle. I never found out how much they paid for the appointment, but it was a waste.

    If he had been the great miracle worker he was claimed to be, he would have told me that lithium causes kidney disease and to get off of it as soon I could. (Getting off that stuff is not that hard.)

    I hear that a long time ago when Dr. Breggin was taking patients, that’s what he would tell them. He saved many people’s lives that way.

    My new book, by the way, is coming out very soon and it’s about surviving after lithium damages your body. It is not about “lithium withdrawal” since really the only withdrawal is the scare tactics and lies commonly used in nuthouses. It’s about how to get away from the mental health system and how to deal with kidney disease naturally.

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  • I agree. Don’t check the box. Don’t admit it. Don’t even imply it. Interestingly, since the diagnoses have no validity, if you don’t tell, if you act as if you were never locked up, as if you never had a diagnosis, no one will know. If you tell the wrong people, they won’t just run away, they’ll do anything to smear your reputation. You will become a scapegoat. People need someone to hate, someone to blame for their own flaws and mistakes.

    I agree that the hatred out there is worse than ever. I have had a lot of trouble getting the attention of journalists and nothing I write to the Boston Globe even gets read.

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  • I agree with Lloyd, I’m not sure the suicide question is answered (I choose to use that scary word!). I personally believe a person has the right to end their own life, but some religions forbid it. By all means a person shouldn’t be criminalized for wanting to commit suicide, or thinking about it, or planning it, or toying with the idea. Oh let me add one more crime: writing a poem with the word “Death” in it.

    If these principles were closely and strictly followed, psychiatry would go broke very fast. No one would voluntarily choose to be marginalized, drugged, and labeled. No one would choose organ failure and early death. No one would choose forced unemployment. Oh dear, poor shrinks. They’d moan about losing their jobs or not getting paid enough. They would complain because now, they have to be honest (if it were enforced). Oh dear! Maybe some of them can try out psychiatric disability. After all, you don’t have to work, right? They did it to us. Why don’t they try it out?

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  • Hi Michelle, I am not sure if you will see my comment, but I am looking for lawsuits by people who took lithium and then, were never told they had kidney disease. There’s no sense in trying to sue the drug companies since the drug has been around for decades. Doctors have known that lithium causes kidney disease for decades. It’s pretty much standard practice to keep patients in the dark about their medical condition…and then it ends up being too late.

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  • The following happened to me in first grade. We were at recess. The teacher asked us to line up in a line. We did. I did not like standing there in the cold. I got colder and colder, in fact, and I figured I wasn’t the only one. Finally, the teacher said we’d better be good or we wouldn’t get to stay outside.

    Everyone was silent then. I said, likely quite audibly, “But we don’t want to stay outside. It’s too cold.”

    In a flash, the teacher, likely a recess monitor, was right beside me. She told me I was a “bad girl” and told me I should be ashamed of myself. She grabbed me by the scruff of my jacket and dragged me to the end of line, saying I deserved it.

    It wasn’t so much that single action, but what it symbolized to me at that very moment. School was no longer my friend. It was a scary, hostile place. And that it stayed.

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  • So this is what happened a few days ago. I was teaching a class and some of the kids were doing stuff that was going to lead to trouble. By trouble I mean someone was going to get injured if they continued. I tried to solve this by getting the kids interested in doing something else. This worked, for the most part, as I saw the kids scurrying away from where they were to another part of the room. Unfortunately, the aide then started yelling at them and using shaming language.

    Kids react differently to this type of adult bullying. Some will just disregard it. One boy, though, was particularly hurt because he was called “bad” and a bunch of other things.

    He was so upset, he sobbed and curled into a ball. I was amazed that the aide was so clueless about what had just happened. For most of the class she was sitting way off to the side, with some papers in front of her that she appeared to be reading, but more likely, the papers were hiding her cellular telephone.

    I don’t know why she chose that moment to yell at the kids, but it was startling and deeply disturbing. As far as I can tell, this is normal, daily life at the average school, and this is the way kids are treated there.

    Although I tried to comfort the child, I knew I was rather ineffective at doing so. After all, I was a scary adult. The cool thing is that another child came and sat next to him and stayed with him until he was okay. The other child was an ally. Adults are the threat.

    Anyone who speaks out against the status quo, whether an employee or a child, or even a parent, is going to be ostracized. And the wheels keep turning. How can we stop this madness?

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  • They do it all over, Jim, laws or no laws. I know people who were held like that. I recall being held at Boston Medical Center in a prison cell for three days, dehydrated and malnourished, while they scrambled to figure out what to do with me. Finally, they let me go since I didn’t “qualify” for anything at all. The prison shrink said I fell between the cracks and she threw up her hands in utter cluelessness. Thankfully, not one psych ward would take me. To this day, I don’t understand why, during those three days, I was completely denied any medical care. By then, I knew it wasn’t psychiatry that I needed.

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  • I would have to say that I have all too often seen peer workers push unwanted treatment on people. If the peer workers are working for the hospital, then naturally they’ll be hired to work to the hospital’s financial advantage.

    I see an issue with defining good health with more consumption of medical services. Maybe it’s good financial health for the institutions and providers.

    I was saddened to see on a forum a bunch of peer specialists saying that if their jobs were canned they wouldn’t be able to get jobs anywhere else. They defined themselves as unhirable. This saddens me, since many of these capable people would be welcome in other workplaces, doing completely other things. Isn’t it time that survivors got themselves hired doing something besides working for the MH industry?

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  • First of all, our complaints are dismissed because they claim we’re crazy and don’t know what we are talking about.

    Some have gained a little bit of a voice by joining the opposition and becoming providers themselves.

    This leaves the rest of us. Many of us have other areas of expertise. But whatever that is, it counts for nothing. We don’t matter. Frankly, I’m so tired of being treated like a lowlife (in regular life and also in survivor circles) I am ready to scream. But…on the other hand, I can join the Lowlife Pride movement or some such thing. Might not have much choice. Or….maybe I get looked down on because I’m shorter than most of you.

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  • Yeah, Kindred, I agree. I have had to endure the pushing of the Pledge of Allegiance. I am honestly afraid my job status would be affected if anyone found out I don’t say the Pledge. Kids are taught to obey, obey, obey, without questioning, and if they dare say anything they get a note sent home, or detention.

    Here is an example of what they do. One day, I had taught a class that worked out very well. Afterward, the teachers want the kids to line up to leave the classroom obediently and silently. I totally hate this ritual, but I have to go along with it. So that day, the kids lined up, and suddenly, one little girl broke out of the line and ran back to me to give me a big hug. I was so touched by this. Guess what happened? She got shamed, demeaned, and sent to the end of the line. That was the day I realized I need to cut down on my hours. I’m tired of feeling on the verge of tears over these human rights infractions. I also realize that I can’t fight it as a minority voice. There’s too much hierarchy to fight.

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  • Hello, I am the author of Life After Lithium, which is not yet published. I want to share with you that if you take lithium you will experience renal failure. You are likely to die of it, or die of something related such as cardiac failure or stroke. Kidney disease leads to diabetes and you might die of that.

    Your doctor should tell you about the wonderful lives people have on dialysis. You’ll be married to a machine three days a week, six hours a day. Do you want your life ruined by that? You’ll be forced to stop working, and go on disability. I’ve got more news. Most people die during the first year of dialysis.

    If you have already started lithium, your creatinine, which is a blood level, has already risen to an alarming level. Don’t expect your doctor to properly inform you about this, either. You will notice symptoms in a decade. You aren’t likely to live past your 50s.

    Your choice.

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  • Mindfulness? Huh? I agree with Steve. I work in the schools. They are oppressive to kids. Take high school for example. My kids have to be there at 7:30 in the morning. If they’re late, even by a minute, they’re punished. They have only three minutes to get from class to class.

    When I was hired I was given the spiel about inclusiveness. We were given extensive training on how to report child abuse. This was supposed to include abuse by school personnel, yet when I made a report to the state, my supervisor demeaned me and said I should not have done it.

    I have seen instances where teachers, who are hired and paid to teach, aren’t teaching. I don’t understand how, on a moral level, these teachers can live with themselves. The kids are at a loss. They deserve an education. They didn’t come to school to be babysat, supervised, bossed around, and threatened.

    When I get to teach, when I get to stand up in front of the class, I give examples of how voicing one’s concerns can make huge changes, even if you are a minor. I have said so many times, “You matter.” But at the same time, I realize that for many of these kids, they have spoken out plenty, but often they are not being heard.

    They still matter, though. I tell them not to give up.

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  • I have news from Marci. The place she is at, she says, is better than Elgin, or shall I say less oppressive, but still, it’s a hospital. She has six more weeks there. After Marci spoke up and revealed to another patient what a court order was (education, I say!) she then had any “privileges” revoked and she’s restricted to the “unit.” She says it is very difficult there as it’s one of those “acute” psych wards, where clearly, she feels out of place.

    She says every little bit counts. If you can call, or send a letter, she would be very happy! She sounded very clear, upbeat given the circumstances, and unfortunately for them, she remembers the various offenses against her very well. They can’t use their most effective weapon, drugging, against her, so they’re clearly trying other means, legal or not, to attempt to silence her.

    Every bit of support counts!

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  • Dr Tasch, I first heard you on the Breggin show. I’ve been very impressed with your work.

    What are the chances of being able to turn around a few more shrinks and a few more attorneys? Shrinks have power in the courts because they’re shrinks. Attorneys can make huge changes because they know the law.

    Can we ex-patients/survivors influence local attorneys and find more shrinks who have common sense and guts to stand against the system?

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  • I have read, or tried to read, several DBT books. All are horribly blameful toward the patient, who likely isn’t to blame for being misunderstood or misheard. I hated reading, “You can’t handle your emotions.” As far as I knew, I handled emotions better than most people around me at the time. I want to feel my feelings. Even the unpleasant ones, because sometimes, it’s necessary. Unpleasant feelings help us make good decisions. I want to remember, so I can tell the story to many people. I want to be pissed off and stay that way as long as I need to, and I am not uncomfortable with my own real feelings. The assumption that we’re somehow not okay in our own skin, that was the biggest insult. Mostly, it applied to those therapists, not to us.

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  • Magdalene, I am frankly quite tired of “activists” who tout the “therapy is good and drugs are bad” narrative. Very tired. I was abused by my therapist and therapy kept me in a sick state for years, always on the verge of the next crisis. I am tired of hearing that mindfulness is for everyone. I don’t think it’s logical, and in some cases, it’s very unhealthy since it causes apathy. I am tired of the demands that everyone should meditate. I am tired of being guilt-tripped because I choose to avoid it. I used to know someone who was addicted to meditating. It was bad. She couldn’t stop and got so far behind on schoolwork that she had to drop out. I avoid yoga, too, as it reminds me of the “gentle yoga” we HAD to do in the nuthouse. Why can’t people just let me be me? I’m fine the way I am, thank you. Sick of the trendiness of those things.

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  • I am glad you reviewed this book. We need more survivor stories reviewed because (on a practical level) doing so increases awareness that the book exists, increases exposure, and potentially increases book sales. I know that saying so sounds selfish but I’m remembering how I had a book published about ten years ago and for the most part, couldn’t even get my friends to help out. It was one of the most heartbreaking experiences I’ve ever been through.

    I will definitely check this out. I’m glad to see another person rejecting CBT and rejecting that packaged “mindfulness” that therapists love to sell. It is NOT for everyone, contrary to what the mindfulness salesmen claim. I found that mindfulness was just one more way to blame the victim. It turned me off.

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  • It IS news, although I agree with Pacific Dawn that we should have known this already. I find it reinforces the importance and influence that non-parental adults have in a teen’s life. As a teacher I am well aware that I am a role model for kids. I also remember my own teachers in high school and junior high. Many had a positive influence on me. At the same time, I wonder to this day about the indifference of some of them.

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  • We can start right now by stopping the use of made-up diseases to explain away our bad behavior, no matter how minor. If we are adults we should be accountable for our behavior. We cannot blame some disease. “I didn’t show up because of my depression.” Or, “I was late because of my ADHD…” These need to be replaced with, “I felt I couldn’t come to the party because I didn’t know most of the people there.” Or, “I was late because I mis-judged the amount of traffic I’d encounter.” Plain and simple. We need to do away with, “I snapped at you because of my bipolar,” and replace it with, “I’m sorry I snapped at you. I’m under so much pressure right now due to mounting debts. It’s not you.”

    We need to teach our children not to fall back on disease-excuses. I’ve had to deal with this as a teacher. I have had kids ask to be excused from the room, which I am not allowed to do ordinarily except for a bathroom trip. I can tell when they want to use their label as the reason. They start to stammer and act awkward because they’re not sure they can tell me. They don’t know me.

    What I do with these kids is that I spare them the awkwardness and gently encourage them. I give them practical reasons to stick with the class and with whatever assignment we’re doing. Instead of letting them excuse themselves due to their labels, I integrate them into the discussion. I get them motivated. I have never failed to bypass the labeling this way.

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  • This is a two-hour interview, and I’m about 15 minutes into it. Already they can eliminate any schizo diagnosis. If her thoughts were that disorganized she wouldn’t remember all those names and phone numbers. That’s impressive! Also, she shows interest in the therapist’s life. That, too, is impressive since people steeped in the MH system are also immersed in themselves. I suppose the therapist here felt obligated to give her a dx by default. I’m very impressed with Marci’s desire to “not rely on the government” and get a job. This is so amazing.

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  • Bravo to Marci! How can we truly know what a person is like if they are diagnosed in captivity? I don’t think anyone should be diagnosed based on inpatient behavior, especially if they are enduring abuse, by staff or patients. Even animals will act differently if they are in cages. Birds pluck their feathers out. Rodents will eat their babies.

    As such, it does not, “in the court’s opinion, require inpatient attention. Many persons with the same attributes are found throughout society.”

    Sounds like the staff there at Elgin have bad morals, are unpleasant and abusive, and lack insight.

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  • We’re already doing it. I hold two jobs, working weekdays and Sundays. My weekday job is one I do outside my home. I have to put on a good impression no matter what, even if I have a bug I picked up at work. They call that “professionalism.” I don’t think “professionalism” has to be robotic, either. I have already filed a mandated report because I knew that was the right thing. Imagine if all ex-patients acted respectfully instead of the childish manners taught in the nuthouses. Imagine if all ex-patients inspired other people by example. Imagine if we all stood up for what we believe in. We would be leaders. Soon, there would be no more patients, no more suckers, no one would fall for it. Psych would crumble.

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  • This is scary indeed. What if this list were to be misused? Who can access the list? Your college? Your future employer or landlord? Can it be accessed if you are running for public office? Can the media access it? If you are being sued, or prosecuted for a possible crime, can being on the list work against you? Will they use it to detain people as supposedly violent criminals or monsters?

    Why don’t we all declare ourselves “monsters” and then see what happens. I got horns and a forked tail. How about you?

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  • I agree, Oldhead. I consider myself antipsych, but I am not a Scientologist. Some survivors and likely all scientologists are antipsych, as are other people (some ex-providers, many family members) Simple logic. These are just plain separate issues.

    I’m thinking though, that since the Sci clan shows up at these protests, some clarity might be needed, as some people likely have no clue there’s an antipsych movement aside from Sci

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  • My parents joined NAMI in the 1980s. This was mainly a support group. They said to me that I was compliant and that most parents complained of noncompliance. They felt that my situation wasn’t the same. Even in the 1980s he introduced me to the Vermont Liberation Organization, or something that sounded like that. This was just what it sounds like. They worked mostly by telephone since Vermont is mountainous and most people/patients couldn’t get around easily.

    I believe it was 1986 that they took me to see Dr. Pfeiffer. This likely cost them a lot, but since I was steeped in the brainwashing, I’d say I didn’t get much out of the appointment.

    My dad later rose to leadership in NAMI. Prozac had exploded on the scene but had not picked up the popularity it has today and the drug wasn’t yet passed out like candy. NAMI changed my dad. He had a chance to do a lot of research and attend conferences. He read On Our Own and saw Judi speak in person. He wanted me to learn about this “other way.” Then he started mentioning this bizarre thing called Human Rights. He kept talking about it, telling me I should learn about it. I figured, in my total naivete, that Human Rights meant something in history, like maybe the abolishing of slavery after the Civil War, or the Civil Rights Movement, and couldn’t possibly be relevant to me, here and now.

    My dad’s cancer was starting to return, but he took on a job as “monitor” in the state hospitals. He went to Westborough State, I recall. He spoke directly to the patients and asked them about human rights abuses. He was also highly instrumental in getting Metropolitan State (The Met), which was very near where I grew up in Lexington, closed down for good.

    Years after his death, my mom encouraged me to join her in the NAMI walks. The last year she asked me, I asked 1) if I could bring Puzzle, and 2) if I could run the walk instead of walking the walk. She said I should ask the organizers. If I recall correctly the organizers did not say, but implied, that most were far too sick (from their “treatments”) to be able to run it. This was an eye-opener to me. At the time, I was just shedding the unwanted “services” and “treatments” from my life.

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  • Hello Melody, I would love to know which educational institution put you through this. I have attended six different colleges, actually seven. In order of appearance, they are….UMass/Amherst, Bennington College, a defunct practical nursing school, Southern Vermont College (non-matriculating), Emerson College, Goddard College, and online school which was really a scam, at SNHU.

    I have never heard of such an inhumane, humiliating practice done at any of the schools I attended. At UMass, I believe starting sophomore year as music majors we had to go through “Juries” which was at the end of the semester. This was a chance to perform a piece in front of the faculty while they critiqued our playing. Students were not present. We were nervous about the juries, but nothing like what you describe happened there. I received my notes from them and they stressed the positive and also noted improvements. No one failed if they mucked up their juries.

    Bennington never had that. They didn’t have uniform standards for “passing” and each student was expected to create his or her own goals, and then, achieve them. The faculty were there to support these goals. Bennington was grade-free, meaning I could go as far as I wanted with my projects and was not limited by “grades.”

    Practical nursing school was nothing but memorization and no critical thinking. They didn’t like it when we thought outside the box. After the school ended (I never got that far) the class took a standardized practical nursing exam. I don’t remember anyone being raked over the coals as you describe.

    Emerson, in hindsight, was more conservative than they made themselves out to be. Faculty were required to give grades and with some courses, the administration required mid-terms and finals. Studying and working hard was a joy for me. I got straight A’s.

    At Goddard College, where I completed my graduate studies, I really learned how to teach, and more importantly, gained confidence and leadership skills. This was not a teaching program, that is, not a certification program, but the faculty were so good that I learned by example. We were required to teach our own classes and that experience was inspiring for me. The only time, to my recollection, that students felt pressured or nervous was right before final semester. The reason was that at the end of third semester we were expected to have a full draft of our manuscripts and we sent this in for approval for final semester. Not all students passed. Some were asked to repeat a semester. Sometimes this led to conflicts, but usually not. I passed. Final semester you really had to push yourself hard. I did. I loved it! At the end of final semester you pass in your manuscript again and two faculty members have to separately and independently approve your manuscript. Everyone in my class passed, all ten of us. Then at graduation we gave public readings and little speeches at the graduation ceremony.

    As for colleges that discriminate against gays, yes, they do! I applied to teach at a local college (Western Pennsylvania) which I will not name. During the application, they said I had to agree to Christian principles (I winced) and then they had me read their policies, which included banning all lesbian and homosexual activity. I stopped then and there. They auto-sent an email to me asking me to finish the application. I wrote right in the application, in a spot where my text would fit, that I cannot continue and refuse to work for a college that discriminates against the LGBTQ population. I sent that off. How could anyone, in good conscience, work there? I imagine this doesn’t happen in Massachusetts, where I am from, but maybe I’m wrong.

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  • I did not read the comments but I see there are many. I attended the first webinar. I noticed that I saw very few familiar names there, which is promising. Many were MH workers of various sorts from Oregon and had a lot of knowledge of Oregon-specific issues. They definitely reacted positively and seemed to be learning!

    I also felt that Bob Nikkel’s presentation was realistic because in many ways, their efforts did not succeed. I question how public health officials measure “health.” I took a public health class recently. This was an undergraduate class. These students were likely much younger and less experienced than me. They foolishly measured “health” by “number of doctor visits” and “percentage of people who go get vaccines.” Actually, I suspect this is the prevailing view, pushed by the media. So if I saw a psychiatrist twice a month and a therapist twice a week, I’d be more healthy? If I took a cocktail of blood pressure pills, cholesterol pills, and HRT, I’d be more healthy? I’d likely be dead! It looks like people just don’t get it.

    I would not say psychiatry has failed. Psychiatry is a dark shadow in our history, an abomination, an embarrassment.

    People wonder why, when the Nazis were rising in power in Germany, the story never reached most of the North American public. The reason is that the media did not publish these stories, or when they did, it was some tiny article in a remote corner of the newspapers. There was growing Antisemitic sentiment shared among the most powerful and richest influencers of the day. Their companies funded the papers through advertising.

    This is exactly what is happening now. They squelch our stories. They silence us in any way possible, even using illegal means to keep us out of the mainstream media. We continue to grow in numbers and are more successful at shouting loudly, but are dismissed as nutcases. When I explain to people that I “got better” because I got all MH “care” out of my life, they say, “Oh but you’re an exception.” I’m honestly tired of hearing that. I have known others who have done the same, ditched them all, and what’s cool is that EVENTUALLY, these folks flourish. It takes time to get through the grieving and financial wreckage.

    Psychiatry should be abolished. The drugs are only a side issue. Psychiatry is guilty of heavily influencing society on all levels, encouraging eugenics, that is, the separation of the supposedly sane and the supposedly insane. The media supports this idea, that we should be given “care,” which might include incarceration. That we should be put out of work and then, handed an embarrassment of an income from the State. That we should become property of the State, which now controls and monitors our finances and our living situation. We are rounded up and put in ghettos or prisons.

    Their “care” should be exposed for what it truly is. The Nazis lied about the showers and psychiatry is lying about what it does, too. We need to inform and enlighten the public so that psychiatric “care” can be stopped. Ended. We need to save our people from the fate we ourselves befell.

    A new era should begin, not based on hatred and fear of “other,” but based on love.

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  • I am not sure you are really aware of what this site and the activity you see here is all about. While I agree that sometimes, people might vent on here about their experiences or opinion, there’s no place else we can safely do this. Many of us had traumatic reactions to our psych experience very specifically because when we got out we had nowhere to take our stories. Psych abuse is rarely recognized as a trauma. Where do we go? The therapist? Really. Try it! My therapist told me the unit I was on didn’t exist! My psychiatrist told me I was manic and told me she would drug me till I couldn’t write anymore. Your profession is responsible for countless deaths and billions in disability money and Medicare payments to hospitals that held us against our will. Of course we are angry. It is about time someone was!

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  • However, most are treated with a combination of the two. You can do therapy alone, or drugs alone, but what if you do both drugs and therapy?

    I’d guess as the drug use increases, which invariably it will, the quality of therapy decreases. You might be falling asleep or unable to concentrate on a therapy session. Or the whole session might consist of a sunscreen lecture. You might be so unmotivated that you didn’t shower before therapy, so the whole session focuses on getting you into the shower. I have had countless therapy sessions where I asked them why I was getting edema and muscle cramps. It was from kidney disease from lithium, but this was really waste. Why didn’t they just come out with it and tell me I had kidney disease, when undoubtedly, the KNEW all along?

    In the end, therapy didn’t just suck. It was a danger to me, and I got out.

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  • Oh, I should add something else. For those out there who may be a so-called mental health professionals, you can help out by ENDING the assumption that having a mental health degree means you’re an expert on life. You are NOT. You might, though be an expert on the inner corruption of your profession. This is what you should be talking about. You should not use your credentials to claim expertise on the human condition. Quit acting like gods.

    I have heard this from SOME mental health professionals, even some here, all too much. I have heard such idiocy as, “I know what causes eating disorders! Perfectionism!” Me: Oh, so it’s a character defect, is it? How about, instead, saying, “The way they treat people diagnosed with ED is horrible! The use of force and threats in the ED professions is shocking and a human rights violation.”

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  • Wow! That is so totally comprehensive and far-reaching that I say, as solution, we need to meet people where they are at. When dealing with people who have swallowed psychiatry’s Kool Aid, we need to be kind, not aggressive and not pushy. When I began in activism I was too pushy and this did not fare well because it had the opposite effect of what my aim was.

    For those of us who are survivors, we need to lead the way by living well. We need to show the world we are not the needy, helpless, lazy…oh, find me more adjectives, please….that they claimed we were. We are not useless. We are not societal waste. We are people who ran into bad luck. We were misheard or we were young and made bad decisions such as the decision to actually believe them. It is not our fault. We need to realize and convey: This was just ill-fortune.

    The whole idea of Bad Luck is unacceptable in our society because people think there has to be some scientific reasons why things happen. While of course there are scientific reasons, for instance, why cancer strikes. Yet it’s not true that the person had bad morals, bad karma, a bad attitude, bad self-care, or “did it to himself.”

    Now the same with ending up in a shrink’s office, which has no relation to inner suffering per se. This is not a moral failing. For me, it was youthful bad choice, one that was not well thought-out and did not take into effect the possible consequences of psychiatry due to my own ignorance and inexperience in life. For others, it was forced on them by misguided people, people who are ignorant and believe psychiatry’s myths.

    Recently I found myself broke due to bad luck. Now all that is over, but during those two months I was under the worst pressure even though I am working two jobs. I am dying to write about the experience and relate it to the survivor experience. I sure have a lot to say about Bad Luck and why society hates to hear this side of things.

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  • Vitas, I’m glad you shared all that. Much of what the hospital did was totally illegal. In fact, there was really so, so much that I think you’d agree, there’s no “five minute version” of the psych abuse story, not for any of us. In so many ways I wish there was as when we speak with attorneys they don’t want to hear the real version. It takes too long to explain the massive amount of harm. It took many calls for me to find an attorney. The closest I got was one who said my case would involve so much paperwork that he did not have time to do it. At least he agreed I had a case. The rest cut me off after I told them what diagnosis I had been given.

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  • Don, that’s why I want to sign up as fake patient. Just to get the inside dirt.

    My guess is they’ll keep it on the market. We don’t matter. Mostly, we’re out of work and expensive for taxpayers. Of course, psych caused this, but anyway I am sure they won’t change anything at all. They want to keep us this way, silenced and marginalized.

    I took Olanzapine and had to stop it after three days. This was back in 1997. It was intolerable.

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  • Krista, it never occurred to me when I was back in Massachusetts that the Medicaid listings were faked. I didn’t have a grasp on how the funding worked. I made roughly 200 calls trying to find a therapist after I had fired the abusive one I had. I found that the Medicaid list was totally useless and after I exhausted that, I called at random. The National Eating Disorders Association was also unhelpful, as both the local and national chapters failed to locate even one therapist who took both ‘care and ‘caid. I lived in Boston and all 200 turned me down before I got into the door. I was suffering from severe trauma from the abuse. I kept trying and trying and I remember hanging up the phone after one failed call after another and just crying. I had my lovely dog. I had no one else, and my supposed “friends” thought the abuse was my imagination.

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  • Who is going to agree to this? How much will they have to pay study participants to get them to comply? And how many will drop out before the 15 days are up?

    Olanzapine has been out for about 20 years now. So now they’re doing this study? So now they suspect the drug damages people?

    They won’t find much. They don’t dare keep normal human beings on the stuff any longer than 15 days. What about us? We’re not human. We don’t count.

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  • Thanks for sharing this. Resilience is something you learn by doing.

    I couldn’t get a “job” as peer specialist, either. I told them I didn’t believe in force. One mention of human rights and that did it.

    It’s okay, there are plenty of things I can do for a job. Thank goodness I don’t have the mentality that “peer support” is my only choice, given my background. Now that I have gotten far, far away from the mental health system, I can choose for myself. Pretty much anything that suits me.

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  • The term Mental Illness has no basis in reality. It is hate speech, designed to promote segregation and create a class division. Of course, the diagnoses are also hate speech, with the exception of “depression” so long as it is used to describe a stock market or weather event. Or mood. We used to say “depressed” which meant sad, down in the dumps, or just having a bad day. Wish it stayed that way instead of becoming one more fake disease.

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  • I believe the concept of MI is useful to segregate from society those who we see as possessing traits we dislike or fear in ourselves. Diagnosing and “treating” supposed MI exists as the great segregator. It works well! We are taken out of the workforce, forced to live in separate housing, booted out of colleges and even from families, incarcerated, or killed. Supposedly, hiding us makes society more comfortable for the non-MI, or those who assume they are.

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  • I also did not know about this study you referred to in footnote #1. I’m going to check that out because it supports my theory that extreme dieting leads to all kinds of distress that gets misdiagnosed as one kind of MI or another. Extreme dieting also leads to distorted body image and long-term eating problems. These studies are ignored by the eating disorders community because they would rather treat ED by force. Force-feeding, incarceration, intimidation, verbal abuse, shaming, guardianship, and more. It’s more profitable to take away the rights of (usually) young women and girls, even removing them from their families, than it is to allow them get better. The ED treatment racket is pulling in more and more money and now they want to take it not only from wealthy families but from taxpayers.

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  • I can’t stand it when so-called progressive or “enlightened” people claim poverty is an attitude problem. Everyone I know who ended up in poverty was either born into it already or ended up broke due to bad luck. Medical bills can kill your wallet. Another reason is when a person decides to start a business, and then invests a huge amount into that business but it fails. Any time you start a business it’s a huge risk and you really have to have reliable people helping you out. No one can predict the future. I’m almost scared of people who are grandiose enough to think they can.

    Contrary to what some claim, you can’t just think of money and then, it’ll appear. Also you can live on very little but there’s a certain amount you need just to get by. While you can indeed live in the wilderness, very true…I considered it a while back…I found out it would be very expensive or impossible without a car. You CAN indeed live on rice and beans but not long term. Anyone lecturing others about eating nothing but rice and beans needs to try it themselves. When I was homeless I was struggling to get drinking water and to find a place to go to the bathroom. Just try it, try holding it all night because the past evening there was no place to go. Try walking 20 miles at night because you don’t have bus money. Yes, you need money.

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  • Please continue to have your kidneys tested, that is, creatinine level for one thing, and keep track of your electrolytes, especially if you have any more leg swelling. Don’t expect the doctors to tell you the truth. They won’t! They’ll blame anything BUT their drugs.

    I also took lithium exactly as prescribed for 12 years. I was taken off of it in 1996. In 2011 I started having renal symptoms and the doctors did not admit the lithium had caused it and never informed me I had kidney disease. Looking back, by 40 I was likely in State 2 CKD and certainly in Stage 3 well before I turned 50. I never knew until I was 55 and in renal failure. Even after they revived me they never admitted it. I had to find out myself.

    You CAN treat CKD with natural medicine. In fact, I would recommend anyone who has ever been on lithium to maintain a low sodium diet for starters, which will slow down the progression of any damage you have.

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  • Frank, I agree. Banning assault weapons…whom does this hurt? I can’t think of a practical purpose for one of those weapons. If they are banned, will the previous owners die? How will they be harmed? Take away food or water and many are harmed. While it might hurt a person’s pride and dignity to have to give up a cherished assault weapon, and might even feel violating, it’s not like they will die or get very sick without it. Furthermore, I feel like my safety and security are violated here in Pennsylvania knowing that just about anyone here might be armed. Honestly I worry that my dog will be shot while we’re out walking. The likelihood is slim but I hate the feeling that anyone out there can own a gun and can use me or my dog as target practice. It is unsettling. We have shootings in the city about every other day.

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  • Great article. I agree. A few years back I talked to a “trauma” therapist who told me his goal was to “soften” my anger. I asked myself why. Did my anger make him uncomfortable? I stopped communicating with him after he said that.

    More recently I realized that I am not the least bit uncomfortable with my own anger. I’m happy to have it there to help motivate me. Outrage is likely the most useful emotion to get things done in society. Certainly, passivity, medicated anger, or anger limited to the therapist’s office isn’t going to be very effective at making the changes we demand.

    If it’s the goal of therapy to silence us then I personally choose to stay as far away from the couch as I can.

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  • Good morning! Here’s an update on gun violence in Pennsylvania: Our governor, Gov Tom Wolf, whom I highly support, signed a gun control law yesterday. This is following a number of mass shootings in our state. It’s my understanding that these shootings were based on two separate factors. 1. It originated as a drug raid, but the criminal panicked and started shooting at the raiding officers. 2. Hate groups such as White Supremacists.

    Gun laws are very lax here. This is noticeable to me since I was raised in Massachusetts. Here, in some areas, guns and hunting are ingrained in the culture, so any attempt to limit gun ownership and sales is met with opposition. The opposition tends to go overboard in my opinion. People own guns for a variety of reasons. I’d say between Pittsburgh and Philly, our two major cities, there’s a fatal shooting at least daily. Many barely make the news. We’ve also had numerous murders done by cops. One of the most visible of these was the shooting of 17-year-old Antwon Rose, a black boy.

    Mayor Peduto, of Pittsburgh, proposed a three-part gun control law. I supported the first two parts and opposed the third. The first two banned ownership of assault weapons such as AR15 weapons. I supported this because these weapons have no practical purpose except to kill a lot of people. How can anyone gain anything useful or constructive by owning one of these? We restrict the ability of ordinary citizens to own highly toxic material due to the risk to the public. Assault weapons are equally toxic to the public. The risk is too high.

    The third part of Peduto’s law involved “extreme risk” orders. Basically, a family member or the cops could decide a person is “mentally unstable” and write up a petition. This paperwork would give the police free reign to raid the person’s home, search and remove weapons. I oppose this due to the impact on those falsely accused. I also oppose it because families could use this order to scapegoat other family members, as retaliation, or as a means of control.

    I think police raids on drug dealers should be done differently. They shouldn’t raid if children or other innocent people are present. In two of the shooting instances, the criminal panicked during the raid and shot the cops. Is there a way to catch criminals, no matter what the crime is, without scaring them into shooting? Raiding is cornering the person. I can see why they’d panic. What about getting them out of their element, doing these arrests in a less violent and violating manner?

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  • Can they even track people who are on drugs but have never been hospitalized? Think of the massive amount of prescriptions out there, prescribed not only by psychiatrists, but by nurse practitioners, ob-gyn docs, neurologists, pain specialists, orthopedists, geriatric specialists, pediatricians, and more. It would be very hard to track down a fair sample.

    While likely hospitalization itself doesn’t directly cause cardiac death, indirectly, it does. During hospitalization patients are brainwashed into believing they have real diseases that will require “medication adherence…” which in turn, kills them.

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  • Thanks, Sera. I have been thinking this for years. I have noticed the silencing. I have even noticed it in the so-called “alternatives to psychiatry” movement and I’ve heard it from fellow survivors. “We don’t want to hear that.”

    Being truthful about life events is a human right because it’s part of Freedom of Speech. Some, in fact most people choose to remain silent. This makes the role of those of us willing to speak out about injustices even more vital.

    We speak for many. We speak for those who cannot speak out, either due to force, or because their jobs or housing will be on the line if they do. Or they are dead.

    While I am giving a speech in a room full of people (where I am assured no one will interrupt, walk away, or stop me from speaking) I can see people flinch at certain moments when I say certain things. The good part is that I am heard out, I get to finish my sentence, I get to make my point. Ultimately I am thanked for the impact my words had on the audience.

    For the most part people aren’t allowed to speak. We are silenced by people who insist we’re psychotic. We’re unfriended. We’re silenced by drugs and incarceration. Our labels discredit us. We can’t get published or they make sure our writings don’t sell. Or we get killed.

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  • So shall we get cardiologists involved? Screen people’s “hearts” for potential terrorism? How about starting in infancy, segregate those with “toxic hearts.” Keep them away from law-abiding taxpayers. That’ll do it. Don’t associate with those inferiors, whatever we insist on calling them: negative, toxic, narcissist, psychopath, bad energy etc.It’s all based on how they make us feel, and how much they remind us of our shortcomings. We can’t stand the sight of them due to our own insecurities. So we continue to hate.

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  • Bob I agree. What practical use do these assault weapons have? The only thing I can think of is that they could be put in a museum as display pieces (such as war memorabilia) and never used again.

    The DSM is also an assault weapon that should be limited to a museum or buried deep in a historical archive so it can be referenced by researchers as a bad idea but never used. We have seen the shameful mentality that has arisen from it.

    The way to end hate is to cease all participation in hateful activities. This should be a conscious decision, as it is better to choose than to be pushed into something via force. We need to choose the most responsible way to act. We should hand in our weapons. Communities already offer this to people, weapons collection where a person can do so anonymously. We should each choose our words wisely, and teach our children to do so as well. Our actions and thoughts often follow our words. Our world is shaped by our language.

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  • Bonnie, your article well done and further illustrates some of things I say in my upcoming book, Life After Lithium. I’d like to link to this article in my book, if that’s alright. I already have Psych and the Business of Madness linked my appendix. Your article goes into more depth and by all means supports the cause. The historical context is an essential part that I often miss out on in my own writing. It’s just that I can’t cover everything….

    Somehow, intergenerational trauma fits into this picture as well. Or at least I see it in my own story, as a Jew, and as a woman.

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  • Hello, thanks for sharing your story. How much did you pay the therapists?

    Secondly, readers need to know that not all therapy patients get good results like this.

    I had about 20 therapists. Most were either incompetent or abusive. Here is a recent story I wrote about one of my therapists. http://juliemadblogger.com/wp/2019/07/27/narcissistic-abuse-done-by-a-therapist-this-is-what-it-is-like/

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  • Please see my expose article on the cyber school I worked at. Here is the link: https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/07/inside-online-charter-school-labeling-kids-disabled-for-profit/

    All the kids I had worked with were traumatized due to bullying at their former schools. This was ignored by the behavior specialists across the board. One of the school personnel even suggested the families were “lying” about the past. I did not think so. Wow they really wanted to silence me.

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  • Thanks for this article, Bob. I agree that it is up to us. Here are some things I would like to add:

    Jim Flannery’s recent film on how to escape forced treatment is very good. It is called Voices for Choices (on YouTube).

    Secondly, just because a state doesn’t have AOT does not mean they don’t use force. Yes, they do. Does a state hospital count? Yes, they use restraints and they force needles into you. If you refuse drugs they will put you on guardianship or just keep you locked up.

    Thirdly, force (whether it’s called AOT or not) is used as retaliation against activists and used to silence people, for the good of the institution.

    Those of us who have escaped or somehow ended psych “care” should now take heed to live well, to illustrate that we are fine without their “treatment,” that we can thrive once we are free of it. We can be careful about our use of language and make sure to use our words, not theirs.

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  • I have been told that running is a meditation, which I agree with. I do like running and usually when people push meditation on me I tell them I already run so PLEASE LEAVE ME ALONE!

    I like running because it is useful. I run on the treadmill, on a local running track, and on the street. If I am outdoors, I enjoy beautiful scenery. Indoors, I enjoy myself, too. It can be used as a form of transportation. Sweating is healthy for you and you earn your shower! Also, running strengthens your heart. Proven.

    No one pushed that on me. I decided myself. Maybe that is one reason I love it so much. That plus long ago when I went to brainwashing sessions, the therapist threatened me and said I couldn’t run. Now, it’s extra enjoyable to be free of her and defying her.

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  • Every time I hear about mindfulness I get this sick feeling in my stomach. I think it’s a mass effort to stop or curtail activism. I think it’s a farce. Yeah, it might feel helpful but it’s avoidant, really.

    If something sucks, face it head-on, figure out what sucks about it and if you can do something to make it not suck. Then, decide if it’s worth it. Sometimes it is not.

    Here is an example. My workplace screwed up and overhired. People are barely aware that this is the cause of us having very little work and very little pay. I personally am not making enough to live on and am going into the red. So this is what happened.

    I confronted them directly in an email and in a post on their social media. I posted both on our workers’ private Facebook page. Now, suddenly, as of today, people are following suit. They are speaking up!

    I asked them to be upfront with us and tell us what they plan to do with the huge number of surplus workers. I doubt they’ll get rid of us but they have to do something. As of today at last things are slightly improved.

    What was the alternative? Contemplate my navel? Talk to a therapist? Put a paper bag over my head?

    No! I spoke up right away. Nothing to do with coping except to tally up my budget and realize I can’t go on like this. All numbers, nothing that therapy or meditation can help with. I think we will see results!

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  • Thank you for this article. Andrew’s story is heartbreaking.

    I came from Massachusetts where they had this sneaky way of forcing drugs by using guardianship. They also had representative payees. If all else failed, they certainly had the money there to lock anyone up and force that way.

    If anyone wants to avoid AOT or other form of force, my guess would be to go to an impoverished area where the local gov’t does not have the resources to enforce any form of forced psychiatry upon its people. That is just a guess.

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  • I believe each person is the authority on him/herself. We need to allow each other the space to make our own choices. I’ve been criticized for having a hard time getting off drugs to help me sleep. However, we aren’t all alike. I found out my body can’t make its own melatonin.

    Access to information is vital. I keep wondering why the medical profession works hard to keep it from us.

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  • Do we know RW’s response yet? This is crucial.
    I would totally leave MIA because of the diagnosis-worship and social elitism, but I keep ending up with this “If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em” resolution. In other words, any attempt I’ve made to start a an online community fails. My project to create a collection of writings on forced psychiatry also failed and I took down the website. I know of others. Some are doing okay. It’s difficult. You need a lot of money to get something like this off the ground. To create a nonprofit you have to have already collected tons of money. Isn’t that ironic? To start an online forum you have to have tons of people willing to participate. I’ve thought and thought about it. Asked myself over and over how to start a community that doesn’t talk diseases and validates lived experience as expertise. I know there are a number of smaller online and local groups. MIA is incredibly visible and vocal compared to most of them. That’s why I keep coming back.

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  • This is ridiculous. I’m unsubscribing to this post in utter disgust. Yes, pill-shaming exists and just because some readers here have never experienced it doesn’t mean it isn’t real. If there’s a human trait (choosing to take pills, choosing not to, being forced onto them) then there’s going to be someone out there that shames you. There are tactful and not-so-tactful humans in the world. I’m not sure that those that shame people for taking drugs are doing them a favor since often pill-takers become more staunch in their belief that this is “medicine.” Shaming is cruel, and it often backfires.

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  • I usually tell people who are upset about their past decision to take psych pills that it isn’t their fault. We were coerced or forced. If you first took drugs behind locked doors, even if you think it was willingly, it was force because you were incarcerated. We were lied to, told half-truths, told overblown stories of how effective they are. Likely, at the time, we made the best decision, or thought we were. They were doctors. Not very clever or insightful, but they wore lab coats (often) and actually in my case, they towered over me, too.

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  • It is just like the different sides of “stigma.” On one hand, it could mean stereotyping, which is a form of bigotry, seeing us as incapable, disabled, and people that society should reject.

    It could mean stigma against activists as Untreated MI.

    It could mean “i’m a sicko and I’m proud of who I am.” The Mad Pride statement, which I have personally rejected. There’s always the additional “I need help” or “You should just put up with me.”

    I don’t think it’s stigmatizing, but more like a fact to say, “We are all different and our differences shouldn’t mean some are set apart.”

    Taking pills is a choice. I believe people should make the choice that’s right for them. For many of us, it means getting off pills. For some, getting off is going to be impossible. No one should make anyone feel ashamed for making the best choice.

    I am especially shocked when some know-it-all who is decades younger than me says “I can do it, therefore you can.” How absurd and self-centered. I do appreciate a good success story, but let’s not overextend it to telling others what they should do based on our own experience.

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  • I have indeed experienced pill shaming. I’m not sure if I should put quotation marks around that or not. When I was about 28 I visited a friend. I was on drugs, a cocktail of them. She looked at my bottles, which I was then opening, and she said to me, “Ugh, well, okay, so it’s time for your DRUGS.” It was the look on her face of utter disgust that said everything.

    The other pill-shaming I have received was from the withdrawal community. I found that I was too embarrassed to tell anyone that I still needed drugs to get to sleep. I had tried for five years and I had barely slept. I made the decision to reinstate and get my life back. I reinstated for three years. I think it was about a month ago that I stopped successfully. I wish, in retrospect, that people wouldn’t put such a huge value judgement on “drug-free.” Like there’s an either/or. We have chemicals in our food, in our air and water, no one in fact is “drug-free” so please get off your high horses. I understand the exuberance but just don’t shove it in others’ faces.

    And mind the ageism also. Older people have complex medical needs. Some of us have organ damage from the drugs. Much of this is life-shortening. I have kidney disease and yes, it causes inability to sleep. Using the drugs to get to sleep was the only thing I could do until I figured out another way. I ended up staying away from the withdrawal community.

    It gets to the point where you have to decide about quality of life. Who decides? YOU. Not your friends, not your doctor, not even your family. You.

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  • I agree, Paula.

    I know you and I have disagreed over the term “eating disorder.” I want to make this (again) publicly clear. ED needs to be taken out of the list of psych diagnoses and instead classified as a nutritional disorder alongside Crohn’s, Celiac, diabetes mellitus, and other disorders related to food intake. While starvation or erratic eating will certainly make you crazy, and for many, make our lives unmanageable, this psychological distress is a bi-product of a physical condition. ED in itself is the only DSM label that directly kills you. There’s no evidence that it’s a chemical imbalance of the brain, but a nutritional imbalance. By comparison, Crohn’s will make you weak, tired, and possibly depressed…but it seems to stay where it belongs…out of the DSM eugenics bible.

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  • I have been through “crappy boss.” This wasn’t my disorder, but a workplace disorder. I never figured out why they made that woman a supervisor.

    There was nothing “inner” I could have done to fix the situation except to quit. No matter how good my nutrition was, no matter how much I exercised, it wasn’t going to fix the crappy boss situation. I could have decided it was all due to my own mental illness and then, therapized the problem away, still wondering why I hated my job, why every day there sucked, why the therapy hadn’t exactly solved anything. What then? Time for pills? Oh I know! Shock treatments…..

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  • Hi Elizabeth, There’s a group for gifted and talented here in the USA called SENG. I am a member. I learned from this group that kids who are very talented and show this at a young age are often given psychiatric diagnoses. Many of them are given ADHD diagnoses and more.

    Also, I learned that often, kids end up developing unevenly. So while the child may be very good at one thing, he may struggle in other areas.

    To give myself as an example, I was talented in music and math, but mostly, I loved to compose music. I tried to get a job at 16, serving ice cream. I was a total flop at it. I’m a little clumsy and I came to realize way too late that this isn’t a psych disorder!

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  • Yes, KS, it actually does hurt. If I hold onto anything that cold I get blisters. I never used the technique myself because it’s idiotic and a waste, but I saw it used on other patients. The pt would ask for something like Klonopin and if the nurses had run out of pill ideas they’d just say, “How about a frozen orange?”

    Now one time I was talking to the nurses about human rights and they tried to hand me an orange. I told them this was a way to silence and discredit me. Along with the frozen orange was the command to “go into your room and be quiet so it’ll work.” It’s a total myth that pills work better if you’re in your room, total bullshit about the orange also.

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  • KateL, I tried DBT and found it silly and irrelevant. It didn’t help at all, whatever the heck “help” meant. In my case, the one thing I wanted was to stop the abuse and prevent it from happening to others. This, to me, is common sense. Why on earth should I sit and hold a frozen orange when everything in my being tells me I need to stop this from happening? If I don’t speak out…who will? Apparently people are so brainwashed they think if psych abuse happens it’s THEIR disorder. No it isn’t. Coping within, to me, means I have a voice and you bet I’m going to use it. I think meditating my life away would be a huge waste of time. Some do find value in the “here and now” mentality. It’s just not for me and it’s not the universal cure-all.

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  • KateL, your experience resonates with me. In my opinion, the MH system does not offer anything of value, not from mainstream MH, anyway. When it comes to trauma you might find value in one of those “kooky” therapists that is totally outside-the-box.

    I found value in a tapping therapist who understood totally that I had been abused in a hospital. Most therapists did not understand and assumed I was paranoid. Of course there’s no sense even trying to reason with them. Just move on.

    I would not even bother telling them about the kratom. Just keep it to yourself. I also broke my ankle, three weeks ago. Not badly, though. It is healed but I also sprained my foot and that is taking longer to heal.

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  • It’s the same with any prison system, Stephen. They don’t prepare the inmates at all. One week of workshop of some sort but it’s never enough. Times change. My friends who were on the inside said that they would have appreciated some very simple how-tos. In a decade, finding a rental has changed drastically. Technology has changed. They do background checks for housing and employment worse than ever now, but I think that is going to change.

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  • Anyone out there who has ever experienced verbal abuse from docs, nurses, aids, sitters, specialists, whatever….This abuse stays with you. Trauma from verbal abuse can hit harder than any other type. It’s been over five years and I am still affected by it. I still get overly defensive, feel like I have to “prove” myself all the time, can’t get along with other people, and can’t stand physical proximity of other people. I am scared even when the bus drives by a mental health clinic. Sirens make me flinch.

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  • I don’t think religion is supposed to be false or true. It’s a belief. Some of these beliefs work very well for some people, and we’ve got a variety of them, none true, none false. Some religions are harmful to society as a whole. Cults tend to be outside of the norm and also the harmful ones live segregated from the rest of society.

    Psychiatry is a cult. Psychiatry has to capture its subjects and brainwashes them. It has its own dogma that’s at heart, illogical. Psychiatry forces its members into ghetto-like situations such as halfway houses and HUD. Psychiatry takes its subjects out of the mainstream workforce.

    Cults can grow and become more mainstream. Christianity was originally cult-like, a seemingly far-out-there band of kooks, but centuries later, became mainstream. Most denominations of Christianity are not cults. Some are. And the lines are certainly blurred.

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  • Me: “If you don’t mind, I’d rather not go to Bingo today.”
    Them: “You have to go. It’ s time for Group.”
    Me: “I just finished graduate school. This is truly insulting to me and I suspect others think the same thing.”
    Them: “So you’re too anxious to go to group, eh? How about a PRN?”
    Me: “I didn’t say that. I do not want to go to group. I think I’m better off spending my time writing.”
    Them: “It is for your own good. If you refuse to participate we can only conclude you aren’t ready to leave.”
    Me: “No, it’s for YOUR own good, so you can tell the insurance company I showed up for a psychoeducational group, and bill it as such.”

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  • Little Turtle, bio has its place. Depression is not a biological “illness,” in fact, there’s no disease process happening there. If the person has hypothyroidism, that is a biological issue and not psychiatric. In fact, a so-called MI is diagnosed (supposedly) AFTER bio is ruled out. Psychiatry states “no biological basis” and then, invents one (chemical imbalance) just to sound medical, and to convince people to take drugs.

    When I was a patient I truly believed that since the drugs “worked” (kinda) then that meant I had a chemical imbalance. This was faulty reasoning. Drugs aren’t some kind of litmus papers that diagnose diseases. If we’re to take the diabetes comparison seriously, that would be like saying, “I was given a shot of insulin which made me feel great, therefore, I must be diabetic.” Huh?

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  • Of course we can help the psychs after they’ve been put out of work. We already do that for people. It’s called Unemployment benefits. Any of them that still need “help” after that can apply for disability and enjoy their “benefits” and forced poverty. Oh we can also make them take drugs to keep their benefits. Make them live in HUD and pay for their groceries with food stamps. That’s the help we got, so they deserve it, too.

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  • It IS a religion. They have their bible, their dogma, their slogans, their own gods they worship called Pharmaceutical companies. Dear God, please send us more money so we can capture more converts. You are brainwashed until you believe, “I have a mental illness, a real illness just like diabetes. It can’t be cured but it can be managed if I blindly obey my treatment team even if it’s very illogical and might kill me.”

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  • People criticize Szasz for associating with Scientology without really knowing what Scientology stands for in terms of psychiatry. The CCHR, which is a branch of Scientology, aims to end ECT worldwide, aims to stop the drugging of children, and they work by pressuring the legislators just the same as we do. Only they have huge money behind them. You can’t argue with the high quality of their videos. They may want to end psychiatry for different reasons than survivors and witnesses do. But no matter their reasons, their aims are the same as ours. Their understanding of why ECT is harmful to people is completely in alignment with our own thinking. It is brain damage. And the drugs? Harmful to children, harmful to society. Their book and video on how the Nazis used psychiatry and how the Nazi thinking is so similar to the DSM is exemplary. It is all a great way to get this info out to the public. They are doing wonderful things to end these harmful atrocities. Why shouldn’t Szasz have associated with them? Was that so terrible?

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  • Yes, Steve Spiegel, I would agree. Psychiatry is a branch of medicine because it is taught in medical schools and the AMA and other organizations claim it is medical. Whether psych is legitimate or not depends on how you define legitimate, because legitimate might mean “what is generally accepted.” It is by all means based on false premises, which Szasz most eloquently and clearly points out. He does this by examining psych as a profession and a medical science by examining its claims on a scientific and moral basis. In my opinion, he successfully shreds it to bits! After you read Szasz you won’t have any doubts anymore! Which is why, when I have recommended Szasz to my friends who are still in the System, they refuse to read him. It’s scary to lose your identity, whether it had any basis in truth or not!

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  • Larry, many of these therapists take away our independence and self-reliance. They take away our trust in ourselves and foster a heavy reliance on the therapist to make our decisions for us.

    To find a therapist who doesn’t do this is not an easy task and the average therapy-seeker with average insurance coverage or even worse, public insurance, isn’t going to be able to shop around. Nowadays, even in the areas where cost of living is low, out-of-pocket therapy will cost you at least $120 a session. Who can afford that? I hear that in some urban areas the cost can be $300 or more per session.

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  • If a person is handed drugs by a pharmacist who is mistaken about what is included, then, if the unsuspecting drug-taker goes and commits a crime, my guess is that the customer would not be held responsible and the pharmacist would have hell to pay.

    I believe there have been plenty of cases where a person was not told about the sedating effects of drugs. The doc failed to tell the patient not to drive. When there are consequences, wouldn’t the doc be responsible?

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  • I agree with Steve. Therapists run the gamut. Some are obviously boundary-paranoid. I can always tell! I had one who cried in front of me. She was crying over another patient. whom I did not know, who had died of cancer. What was I to do? She constantly violated HIPAA by revealing personal details about other patients. This was annoying to say the least! She made me be her therapist countless times. Why didn’t she pay me?

    I had at least 20 therapists over the years. I always wondered why it wasn’t “working.” I have realized that their definition of “normal” is culturally-driven. Also, from one generation to another, “normal” changes. From one part of the country to another, from one neighborhood to another, and so on.

    They would talk about “baseline.” After I’d been only a few years in the System they were clueless about what “baseline” really was for me. Also, one’s baseline can’t possibly exist, since it’s not this fixed entity, but always changing and evolving. Even so, they wildly underestimated me for decades.

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  • I LOVE your art! Wow, absolutely amazing! Thank goodness you aren’t on those drugs anymore!

    I was also called bipolar, only for convenience. The shrinks’ convenience.

    What if you dropped all contact with your parents? While I realize it’s a sacrifice, they aren’t helping, are they?

    By the way, I know Dr. Joffe. My doctor, Dr. Kimberly Pearson, worked with her. Pearson would have said the same thing, told you to stay on the drugs. Or given you more.

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  • It is genocide!

    Here are some suggestions for kids who won’t sit still:

    Play outside
    No more video games
    Toss out the television
    Bicycling, basketball, and baseball (okay, fútbol for those of you outside the US)
    Pets, pets, pets!
    Plant a garden
    Go to a park
    Stop assuming and start listening (to the kids, not the shrinks!)
    Toss out the boring school subjects and insist that schools teach something useful and interesting
    End standardized testing
    End ADHD diagnosis
    Healthy food
    Stay away from psychiatry

    And if the kids really want electricity, peek out the window during a thunderstorm and take a stunning photo. See how scary electricity is? Bring your photo to Show and Tell.

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  • UPDATE: Please donate to Marci’s legal fund. The courts and “hospital” put her legal team through hoops and they’re making her witnesses come back again. The facility has been lying just to keep her in there. This means more funding is desperately needed!

    Here is the legal fund link again:
    https://fundly.com/marci-webber-legal-fund

    Every donation counts! If you are unable to donate, please share the link.

    I think each of us needs to remember when we, ourselves, were locked up. Freedom for Marci is a victory for all of us, especially for those of us who know what it’s like to be locked up and abused.

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  • Ron, my experience with even the best of therapists (or ones that claim they’re great) is the nearsightedness of most of these professionals. Not all, but many. Many have no clue just how bad therapy can be. Maybe Eugene is an exception. In Boston, I could not find a suitable therapist at all. I looked for about two years after I fired the one who was narcissistic. I did find one who did not believe in diagnosis, but I ran away very fast when he asked me out on a date. I met one who was unlicensed and also had no training. She had a business degree. I think she would have been better than average. However, she handed me a paper that I had to sign saying if I got into bad shape she would ditch me. She never told me she was unlicensed, either. I found out and never saw her again. I figured my all-holy psychiatrist wouldn’t approve.

    In two years of calling around, placing about 200 calls at least, I found no one at all! Most refused me when they found out I had ED, or when they found out I was so-called “disabled” and did not have enough money to pay them. A few offered a sliding scale but the lowest they could go was $60. I would say that 200 calls is plenty enough to know that such therapists are rare indeed. My so-called “health plan” had no therapists on staff who had any knowledge of ED. I called and complained and they claimed they would find someone for me. A month later they called said they were having trouble getting anyone on board. Then, I guess they forgot. By then, I was sure I would never see one again.

    I have, since then, had sample sessions with therapists. I did not say my prior diagnoses unless I was sure the therapist didn’t take diagnoses seriously. I was stupid enough to tell one life coach (a trauma one) about my abuse experiences while inpatient. She insisted on knowing my diagnoses and I was doubly stupid to tell her. She immediately refused to see me and said I needed “therapy” three times a week. For that, she got a bad Yelp review.

    Of the others, three of these told me I didn’t need therapy at all. One told me I needed an attorney. One told me I might benefit from career coaching, not therapy. Of course, I hang onto these lovely statements even though I really do not validate the expertise of “therapists.”

    The last one was the best. He spent a long time with me, questioned everything I said (not in a condescending manner at all!) and then, very clearly stated that I was doing fine and again, really do not need “therapy.” Interestingly, back when I was a patient years ago, I was desperate to talk to some nice, understanding person. Now, that desperation is simply not there.

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  • Catalyzt,

    Electronic records give people the illusion of privacy. Who the hell cares about how private those electronic records are when doctors talk about patients in the elevator, lunch room, hallways (the “huddle”) and also in their spas and on golf courses.

    We who were incarcerated have all heard them do this. They aren’t fooling me! There was a story ages ago about a cabbie on a golf course who was so shocked at the doctors’ gossiping that he reported them.

    I wish I could find the story now.

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  • Nancy99, a patient needs to decide for herself whether the concepts of mindfulness are useful. I do not agree that a therapist should impose these, but most do. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been pushed to meditate, or blamed because I don’t meditate, that is, I CHOOSE not to.

    The concept of mindfulness is likely useful to some people, but it’s just not for me. I wish people would respect that.

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  • Kindredspirit, I can’t agree more. I, too, was subjected to the fake Buddhism done by hospital clinicians and therapists. I hated it! We even had watered-down yoga. Ugh.

    I am actually triggered when anyone says to me, “Take a deep breath.” No, I will not! No one is going to tell me how to breathe! I’ve been breathing fine for 61 years now, and at 61 I can run four miles at least. Since when do I have breathing deficits? What is really funny is when the person saying that is a smoker. The only time I’ll do this is if a doctor is listening to my lungs with a stethoscope. I don’t even remember the last time that happened, either.

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  • ferkane, I like what you said, and agree with many of your statements, especially when you said that a CBT therapist should not impose “correct” cognition. Or what they assume is correct.

    Here is where I cannot agree at all: “Well this may be taught on some CBT training, but it was not on mine. In fact, in my training, we were specifically taught that behavioural change was generally necessary for stable cognitive and emotional change.”

    Sadly, this is used on school children and it isn’t working. In fact, it’s totally missing the point. I am disgusted that school employees are now using behavior correction and they even think it’s helpful. I am terrified that as a school employee I’m going to have to praise kids for sitting quietly and be obedient. Ugh.

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  • Ron, I have found, as a so-called consumer of MH services, that a very good therapist is so hard to find that for most, it’s nearly impossible. Those who are on a low income or on dis-ability who are forced into poverty usually have no choice in therapists or do not get one at all. I found, as did others, that finding one that had any clue of what they were doing with ED patients was next to impossible. Your chances of finding one at an agency that takes public assistance insurance is next to nil.

    In some states, the combination of Medicaid AND Medicare will cause a worsening of all sorts of care. Providers find the paperwork exhausting and many will not do it. Even after filling out the forms, they are often refused. This isn’t true in all states. Do you, as a provider, take Welfare-type insurances? I assume you have a sliding scale…but when I was on dis-ability, even $60 a session was much, much more than I could afford. I’m surprised at the providers that do not even realize this! Welfare recipients struggle to pay a $5 copay!

    I have confronted therapists on their insanely high fees, and guess what invariably happens? They do not want to talk to me anymore. I’m dismissed as yet one more poor person they do not want to deal with. Even now, when I see something that, in my opinion, is way overpriced, even if I can afford it now, I will not buy the product or service. Let that be the complaint statement.

    When I finished life coach training, I convened with other grads of the program who scoffed at me for lowering my fees. The message was very clear. “We don’t even want to serve those poor people.” There you have it. I was so disgusted with their attitude that I closed my business.

    How many therapists in the USA are not in the business of insulting people with a diagnosis? Very few. You may not, but most therapists, sadly, do. Most therapists will insult you further by telling you you have some inner problem, such as “poor coping,” when really, the problem is totally external or physical.

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  • I was having a hard time getting through the comments, for some reason….

    Anyway, I am very glad this book came out. I just had a really negative experience with CBT. I purchased a self-help CBT book that focused on trauma. I couldn’t believe what I was reading. The book talked down to readers. It was so insulting I just had to put it down.

    Not only that, the so-called coping methods were just plain idiotic, or just so obvious it was common sense. Most reminded me so much of the “hospitals” that caused the trauma in the first place. Why on earth would I ever want to hold onto ice cubes? Oh please! I couldn’t read any further. What next? Stuffed animals?

    Finally, I confronted the real question: Why would I want to obliterate my emotions? What’s to “cope with” if I am coping just fine? I do not find certain emotions uncomfortable at all. The book totally missed the mark for me.

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  • I was certainly in total agreement with this article for quite some time, when we got to the “therapy” part I started flinching.

    There is therapy for the rich, and therapy for the rest of us. Ninety percent of so-called therapists will immediately send a voice-hearer to a psychiatrist. Most therapists will tell a voice-hearer that he or she has an “illness” or a “defective brain.”

    The best therapists will cost you money. If you’ve been put out of work by the System, you aren’t going to be able to afford a decent therapist. Those of us who were on dis-ability payments couldn’t afford even the lowest fees. Not only that, searching for a decent one is hit or miss.

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  • I agree wholeheartedly, Ron, that some ways that we try to help ourselves are not productive. Some people go out drinking, which is often very unhelpful and can be destructive.

    However, not everyone deals with adversity in an unhealthy manner. A person might go out running, for instance. I found found for myself that I do better without that so-called help. Why? Because the absence of that help gives me the space to find the answer within myself. It is there, and in fact, it always was. When you have “help” in your life, you will turn to that help and then, lose your trust in yourself and your own ability to solve problems.

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  • Wow, This is so, so amazing. I’m about halfway through the podcast while I am writing this. Caroline is someone I would certainly want to meet. I am Jewish and also a psych survivor. I could certainly relate to everything Caroline said here.

    I wish there was a text version of this. The absence of a text version was why I missed this.

    Will, Jews do not try to convert others. Proselytizing is either discouraged or possibly considered to against our laws. Jews do not make any effort to convert others.

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  • Steve,

    I totally agree when you say, “Stop diagnosing!” I don’t think we need a new diagnostic code for various behaviors that authority figures do not like. I do not agree that a “small percentage” of so-called MI have a diagnosible physical problem. Not having enough to eat, for any reason, is physical, or sometimes, having certain hormones out of whack. Never mind the environmental problems, such as “no heat in the house” or, “patient lives in very unsafe housing.”

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  • I hear what you are saying, Ron, but there is no way I’m going to agree that this person with expertise has to be a so-called mental health professional.

    The person might be a drug dealer, who sees someone who has become psychotic from street drugs. A drug dealer very well knows the bad effects of street drugs.

    The person might be an attorney, who can be very helpful in instances of child abuse or spousal abuse.

    An endocrinologist will immediately and quickly notice if a person’s depression comes from a thyroid issue.

    An optometrist will find out that disorientation and poor ability to communicate come from vision problems.

    A politician, too, can help, by raising public awareness about problems such as sexual harassment, child abuse, and more.

    All these folks are, as you say, “helpers who have to know more than the average person.” As I see it, therapy professionals are only one part of it. I find it scary and dangerous indeed when I start hearing therapists claim to be the only experts. I find it concerning when I hear the general public see mental health professionals that way, too. Some are insightful and wise, others are certainly not, and that’s true in all walks of life.

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  • By the way, Peter Simons, your articles here are totally awesome. Your ability to see through the medical literature (and its lies) is astounding.

    We need to attack these fraudulent industries, such as psychiatry and its ilk, with every weapon we have. We need mathematicians to analyze their so-called studies. We need scientific experts in electricity to see through the claims about ECT. The article here (can’t find link right away) which was published recently about the high levels of electrical current used in ECT (no, it’s not therapy!) is so amazing. We need sociologists, also, to see through their lies. We need financial people of all sorts, who show their deep concern over pharmaceutical fraud.

    We need artists, writers, journalists, musicians, and dancers to tell the truth to the world.

    We have so many weapons to use to fight this. We must unite. We must stop fighting against each other, which is more fuel for THEM, and instead, embrace our differences.

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  • Whether or not you see “autism” as legitimate, or any of these other behavior problems, the very fact that these drugs can affect the development of a child is extremely scary.

    The field of psychiatry and other specialists who advise pregnant and nursing mothers needs to WAKE UP for sure.

    My friend was taking anti-d drugs while pregnant. I do not know if she breast-fed the child. If she ever put two and two together and realized that the drugs had damaged her child, I doubt she ever wanted to face up to it. That would be the hardest thing to admit to oneself.

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  • Not only that, now that I am on this subject, many people have approached me and told me stuff like, “I went to college and didn’t know how to handle eating at the dining commons.” “If only I had known that going on an extreme diet would do this.” “I didn’t know how to cook.” “I didn’t realize that losing ten pounds shouldn’t be done in two weeks. I wish I had known.”

    Teens so often go on extreme diets due to not knowing the potential harm in it. The reasons are varied but certainly not liking oneself is only one of them.

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  • Ron, I cannot find your comment that you put on my comment. When I stated that a supposedly “bad” emotion is one that makes therapists upset, I really meant not just therapists, but the entire influence the MH industry has had on the media. Therapy contributes to it by convincing people to think everything under the sun is a mental problem.

    People think anger is bad. No, it’s not. It’s what you do with it. Due to rampant assumptions people make, people assume that anger automatically means the person feeling that anger is uncomfortable and it needs fixing.

    I’m not at all uncomfortable with my own feelings of anger. I don’t go out hurting anyone and I don’t do self-harming behaviors. People assume I, and others, can’t handle these emotions. This is projection indeed. I’m okay with feeling angry. Yes, I can handle it and what I ultimately do with it is up to me.

    That said, I’ve made mistakes. Can I be human now and then?

    I had a job that badly sucked, and after that, I had to recover. How did I resolve it? By doing writing, but not just journal writing, but writing in a way that helps other people and contributes to activism.

    There was, indeed, a recovery period. I had to recover from the job, and that was not easy. Is it okay to feel like crap for a little while? I think it’s fine, and human. People are oh-so-quick to rush in and try to fix something that likely shouldn’t be meddled with.

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  • Paula, this is true. But all women and girls have pressure on them. ED is on the rise. I think that’s because psychiatry and the ED industry realized they could make a few bucks off of us. I have seen it myself. Kids start going to those treatment centers, and then, they turn into revolving door syndromes. I think psychiatry and psychology need to butt out and quit calling it a mental disorder.

    There are plenty of environmental issues (pollution, ozone layer, drugs) that contribute to cancer. In fact, environmental issues, and especially stress and poverty, cause an awful lot of diseases out there. Just because stress and poverty cause disease does not make all those diseases mental disorders.

    I went through both binge eating and anorexia, and yes, you do suffer from these. Most of us truly wanted to be able to eat normally. I felt like I would rather have breast cancer than an ED. By the time you’ve been through years of therapy, drugging, and incarceration, the original reason why you went on that first diet gets completely lost and buried. Because psych and big money took over ED, it now perpetuates the problem, gives people more diagnoses, leading to “success” rates that are an embarrassment, though they will not admit this.

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  • I see another choice out there. There is something to recover from. The mental health system!

    I have a chapter in my book on social media and mad pride. Only I titled the chapter something else. I do not think it’s a good idea for people to use social media to boast about how sick they are. There’s kind of a cult around that. If you do that, you’re going to attract followers who are morbidly fascinated with illness and death. The very presence of followers is like a reward. Get sicker, get more admirers. The formula looks lucrative until you realize they aren’t very good friends.

    This is an addictive tendency, sorry to say. It is a vicious cycle. I have seen people go down a very bad path doing that. I fear that Mad Pride is stoking the fire for this. I don’t think this was the original intent of Mad Pride.

    On the other hand, I believe our society needs to be more accepting of human variety of expression. There are no bad emotions, only ones that make therapists upset. This translates in a bunch of mythology being generated in the media, that dreams up a new disorder every day! They post a new disorder, and people immediately latch onto it and then, it’s another disaster, another new doorway to the nuthouse. Pssst…someone certainly profits from it!

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  • I couldn’t agree more, Stephen. My friends all pulled away from me when times got tough and when I was homeless they refused to help at all. Such is human nature.

    One time, I got on Facebook and asked if anyone had a spare room. I got unfriended for that, or blocked. Then my same Facebook friend that had given me the cold shoulder offered a room in his place to a different friend. I was bewildered. Makes you lose faith in humanity.

    What was really the worst part of it was when people started acting scared of me. Relocating totally cured that, thankfully. Disorder of the community…..

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  • I have worked in a school. Yup, absolutely. The parents are indeed opposed and generally have a more realistic view of their kids’ struggles than the school does. The schools focus on behavior only. If you are cutting class because you know how to do it, and playing video games is more fun anyway, the school will label you. Then they get Medicaid funding to hire and aide to act as policewoman, generally only to make sure the kids stay in class so the school won’t be sued.

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  • Rassulus, I agree that the main concern of therapists, or shall I say, “therapists,” is that if we abolish therapy, they won’t have jobs.

    I don’t buy that at all. Too bad! How many patients and expatients on here have stated that psychiatry stole their career? And that’s okay?

    Should we feel sorry for them? I don’t. Get another job, for godsakes. We writers call it a “day job.” Bag groceries. That’s what one shrink told me to do, if I recall correctly. Okay, so they ruined my career and that’s their answer? Go work for Dunkin Donuts or McDonald’s. They’re always looking for people.

    Funny, they counsel people who are jobless, feel oh so sorry for us…fake empathy…and then they panic over their own potential joblessness.

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  • I was discussing this with a family member last night. Memory was also a frequent topic of discussion in writing school.

    Most of the time, with memoir, we trust the writer. This comes not from how believable the story is, but consistency in the writer’s voice. Occasionally you have the case of the unreliable narrator, a narrator whose story you might doubt because, as a reader, you might think the drunk, dreaming, or somehow, deluded.

    I believe now that all writers of memoir are to some extent, unreliable. We do not remember perfectly. Readers understand this, though. We are human, and humans aren’t perfect. We also prioritize. My brother, for instance, remembers not only the makes and models of every single car we had, but even recalls the type of engine, the history of the model, and how well it performed. I, on the other hand, could care less about cars and all I remember are the various adventures we had in each one, and what my parents named them. And of course, the little songs my mom made up about a couple of them. My other brother remembers absolutely nothing, or claims this anyway. I do not remember much math. I recall I was quite good at it and aced calculus, but still, I recall very little of it. I don’t use it in my daily life, which is likely the reason. This doesn’t mean I did not, at one time, know a lot of math. And it doesn’t mean I’m delusional that I ever took calculus.

    In writing school, we talked about truth vs accuracy. We tend to remember the basic truth about an event, which is our truth. Time may alter our exact recollection of the details. In writing, the readers aren’t going to care about the accuracy of details as much as they care about the message behind the story.

    That particular workshop struck me more than any other I attended at Goddard. The instructor gave us amazing examples of how memories alter over time. We talked about the importance of telling and re-telling our stories.

    It is very true that stories change over time. My story of ECT changed as I began to put the pieces together. The
    ECT part of my memoir I wrote in 2009 (and published) did not mention the ECT. It did illustrate that for a year and a half, I was very out of it. The entire time I wrote the memoir, I did not realize that ECT was the cause. So if I were to re-tell that story, and I have indeed done so, it comes out much different, but the story’s core truth remains the same. What changed and evolved over time was my interpretation of that story.

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  • Attorney Karen, YOU TOTALLY ROCK!

    Can we make a case for those who were damaged, and then, the damage was covered up? That is, we were lied to not only before, but after the fact?

    My own ECT story, which I sent to the FDA in 2016, was ignored, tossed out totally because I did not provide “studies.” I guess they are completely uneducated and do not realize that memoir, which is based on what a person went through, doesn’t need proof. In fact, unnecessarily backing up your statements likely discredits you.

    Here is a link for anyone that wants it: http://juliemadblogger.com/wp/ect-pages/my-electroshock-documentation-as-submitted-to-the-fda-in-2016/

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  • Financial concerns can lead to extreme stress, especially if your credit score drops. I worked for a bank for a while. There were days, many days, when the most rewarding part was telling people not to give up. I even shared tiny parts of my own story, how I had a low credit score (it crashed) and I shared with them how I brought it back up. I can’t say how many times I was thanked. I had to be very careful because I couldn’t do anything that would be seen by the supervisors as “advice.”

    There is a point at which you might get enough money to live on, and then, all that stress totally goes away.

    Might I add, also, that the mental health system will wreck your credit score. The most common reason that people of any age failed to pay their bills and got way behind was hospitalization. As a customer service representative, I knew better than to ask these folks what got them into the hospital. They often volunteered this information. Heart attack was quite common, as was cancer. Of course, those that were in for psych were not going to say so.

    When you are in a hospital, it is very hard to pay bills. You often have no way to get to an online banking website. ECT or drugs might cause you to forget to pay or to forget your PIN, or to go into overdraft for a variety of reasons. Of course, you aren’t getting a paycheck for being in there, either, unless you have accumulated an awful lot of sick time.

    After a while, I carried a check in my wallet. I was so scared of being snatched up and not being able to pay my rent. That, to me, is sad.

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  • Kumininexile, what an awesome comment!

    I, too, love this article. I am very uncomfortable about income inequity. I am finding that some people, even people who have had a lot of education (this gets paid for , too!), have no awareness of the struggles one goes through when one is underemployed, on disability, or facing huge debts.

    I remember counting pennies so that I could get the rent paid. I was walking down the street one day and this couple was getting out of their truck, arguing over whether to use the pennies they had left to pay for food or diapers.

    I have met people who have absolutely no clue. They think that homelessness is an attitude problem, that all you have to do is meditate and that makes everything hunky-dory. Please note who it is that is pushing this…..Not the poor!

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  • As I said in my email to you, I do not object to word “disorder.” I do object to “mental disorder” or “mental illness.” I do feel, as said, that ED is a nutritional disorder and does not belong in the DSM (not that anything does…the book needs to be classified at a hate book, a book of eugenics). It should be taught in nutrition schools. It isn’t. Not only that, most insurance plans don’t cover nutrition, not unless you’re diabetic or have kidney disease. Maybe that’s because nutritional counseling does help, and psychiatry would lose money if people could freely access it. In fact, learning about nutrition does help a lot of people, no matter what the issue is.

    I do not think for one minute that ED is a brain disease. I know it isn’t caused by perfectionism or poor self-esteem. All of these are myths imposed on patients, as is the use of incarceration and force, often to their detriment.

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  • I have been concerned about this for a while. Even apps like Sleepio are concerning to me.

    I worked for Crisis Texting Line and quit very quickly. First of all, anyone contacting them is subject to mandatory reporting. Secondly, I did not want to be a volunteer bot. I was unimpressed with the training. Thirdly, this app collects data. In fact, they’re very proud of that, and include it in their advertising.

    There’s also some kind of therapist-for-hire that works via texting. The service is insanely expensive, $75 for a texting therapist? Huh? I tried this a long time ago and was unimpressed and asked for my money back.

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  • Let me remind people that Binge Eating Disorder was not recognized by the APA until Vyvanse was determined as a drug to “fix” it. I have an MIA article on this.

    This happened in 2013. At the time, I kept wondering why the APA took that long to figure it out. I thought they were just stupid. Yes, that too….

    I kept wondering if their refusal to recognize BED as significant was why my complaints were ignored for decades.

    BED is certainly real, and you will very much suffer from it. However, it is a mistake that some people think (and I did, too!) that it comes from a “chemical imbalance of the brain.”

    It is true that it comes from a chemical imbalance, but not what people think. Malnutrition is a very real, very serious chemical imbalance!

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  • Yes, Oldhead, it’s interesting that many on the left talk about “right to treatment” like it was really treatment! It’s more like “right to have your rights taken away.”

    I am seeing distrust on both sides of the fence. I am very impressed by the Health Freedom movement. Most naturopaths will steer their patients (patients?) away from psychiatry. Many will even encourage you to reject a lot of Western medicine, too. I have a chapter on how to choose a naturopath. One of the things I say is that many will send you a “disclaimer” reminding you that what you do is your choice. People think this is an attempt to get themselves out of messy legal situations. Actually, the statement is a reminder to make your own decisions! This concept is one I also discuss throughout the book.

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  • Catnight, only one therapist ever said that to me. He said he does very short-term therapy that might be one or two sessions. This was a tapping therapist. He focused on trauma. I think he was the last therapist I ever saw. I had just been abused in the hospital (inpatient medical ward) and I have to give him credit for totally believing me. I saw another one for a free session only, via Skype. She told me, “You don’t need a therapist. You need a lawyer!”

    I have spoken to a few career coaches. Funny how survival with these people means omitting 35 years of my life.

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  • I agree, Oldhead. I state this many times throughout the book, reminding people that there’s no validity to these diagnonsenses. As a writer, though, I have to gently bring the reader to the point of realizing it themselves. As we say, “Show, don’t tell.” It is more powerful that way.

    For instance, in various parts of the book I explain that one psychiatrist on a ward diagnosed every single patient with “bipolar.” We were baffled by this. Some had just left other wards where they were given other diagnoses. Another psychiatrist labeled all female patients with “anger problems.” We knew because we compared notes. We joked about it, too.

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  • It IS child abuse to fabricate a diagnosis. We need to think about this because when it comes to the psychiatrization (hmm) of children, this could be a vehicle for nailing social workers and behavior specialists who force children into diagnoses. It would also constitute child abuse for a parent to bring a child to a psychiatrist with the intent of having the child drugged for either their convenience or to collect disability payments for the child.

    As far as adults are concerned, I am not sure where false diagnosis comes into play. I would suspect it falls under malpractice, but it would be much harder to pursue legally.

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  • I remember decades ago when we were all on lithium, a guy told me lithium had given him “diabetes.” I asked him why he thought he had diabetes and he said he knew because he was always thirsty. Sad to say, I was sure he was mistaken. He really meant diabetes insipidus, which has no relation to the other diabetes, although with the other diabetes, thirst can be a sign. The guy also told me about the urine experimentation. I was sure he was nuts! It took me decades before I found out it was indeed true. I also remember being in a “group” where this one guy frequently had to rush out. Again, I figured it was his “mental illness.” This was certainly not why. He was rushing out because he had diarrhea. He also had the shakes really badly and the beginnings of TD.

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  • I just want to say I was one of the patients that was paid $10 cash to be interviewed in front of the one-way mirror. It was 1997. I ran into the resident later on. I asked him if he “passed” the mock interview. He said he did not. Now that I look back, I wonder what he diagnosed me with. They thought I had BPD back then but what I was truly suffering from was aftereffects of ECT. What they did by totally mishearing me like that was a crime. After I left McLean that diagnosis mysteriously disappeared off my record, never to return. So I ask myself now what on earth he diagnosed me with that they disagreed with. Of course, if he had said, “Brain damage from shock” they would have immediately silenced him. I do not recall that guy’s name, either.

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  • I think the consensus here is very clear. Of course this is only my opinion, but I think the real change is going to come from the underclass, the poorest of the poor, many of them mental patients or ex-patients. This is where I personally see the largest revolt, and it is already starting. What is the word sociologists use? Proletariat.

    We can certainly eat their cake. What is going to happen, though, when we refuse their Kool Aid?

    Public health experts who deal with statistics are often saying that the poor do not have access to health care, or shall I say, “health care,” and see doctors less often, and therefore, must be very unhealthy. But no. The Revolution is already starting. People are finding that a lot of natural medicine is cheap or free. The best of it you will find in your grocery store, but the free stuff is priceless. Like, say, sunshine. Hugs. Your dog. Okay, okay, agreeably, dogs do cost money, but it’s a small price to pay for saving your own life.

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  • Hmm…that didn’t work. Paula I want to thank you for pointing this out and I hope you have a bit more influence on MIA than I possibly could. I saw the diagnoses harming the kids with whom I worked. They said to me literally. “I do not like being singled out.” And other stuff they told me. They weren’t able to articulate it because I do not think the families or the kids been fully informed. They did not know that they were seen as future delinquents, but the distrust that they were treated with likely told them exactly what the message was.

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  • Paula, thank you. I agree with you and also, I do not think that MIA should continue to uphold MH degreed people as “experts.” Those of us who have been locked up and know what it is like are more “expert” than they are. Why are we not heard? I am especially furious at Daniel Mackler, who brilliantly denounces his own profession and then, has the nerve to use his credentials as proof of his expertise. Huh? You can’t have it both ways…..

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  • Alex, a person needs to have enough money to live on. For a while, I did not. I couldn’t afford a place that was habitable. This meant living with unbearable neighbor noise, rats, a flood, mold, and a landlord that threatened me, cut off my electricity and threatened to cut the water, too. That is what happens when you do not have enough money to live on.

    Artists generally do not get paid enough to live on, either. I faced this as a kid. How would I support myself in a male-dominated field of music composition? I was so scared I was going to be doomed to waitressing. At my last job waitressing I had been sexually assaulted. Was all work like that? I didn’t know. That fear was one of the things that drove me into the mental health system.

    Now if I could have found a way to get paid as a composer, I would not have had anything to fear. There was no way that I knew of, not at the time.

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  • I discovered nootropics back in 2013. I was certainly not seeking a “brain boost.” As Dragon Slayer pointed out, you have to have brains in the first place. What I was looking for was something to help me with binge eating. Some of these nootropics really did help! After a while, I stopped taking them. I discovered pine nut oil, which worked! Then, I ended up realizing that other healthy fats will work just as well, and cost much less.

    I was a person who binged not when I was hungry, but right after a meal. Leaving psychiatry allowed me to study this scientifically. I figured out that all it takes is a few binges to get physically hooked. This is how it works: The body learns fast that it is going to be subject to a major onslaught of calories. Since it knows this, it braces itself by shooting up the insulin level. Now, you’re almost guaranteed to binge! The reason why people binge in response to “food triggers” is not psychological, but actually what happens is that the body decides that certain triggers are a warning that a binge is coming. This leads to a sudden rise in insulin.

    I was absolutely right when I knew, even back in 1983, that forcing the binge eating to stop would stop the cycle and at least give me a chance to beat it. I was doing the right thing when I put myself in the hospital. Of course, it was a heavy price to pay and a very roundabout way of doing things.

    I am putting this here in hopes that anyone suffering from binge eating might learn from my experiences, not that what I learned necessarily applies to anyone else, but maybe this will be helpful.

    I realized that eating some kind of fat, olive oil or nuts included, in the beginning of a meal will help prevent a binge. Gradually, I stopped bingeing. I stopped starving myself. It is great not having to worry about it constantly.

    I have revisited nootropics recently because after all these years I still have drug-induced insomnia. While yes, nootropics aren’t the best thing for you, I have to consider the harm that sleep deprivation does to my body (and my social life!), and weigh the pros and cons. I’m sticking with nootropics for now. I’ve been able to taper a little bit, too. I’m still tinkering with the dose.

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  • Daniel Fisher, I am so, so happy you mentioned that. They did the Rogers thing to my late boyfriend. That’s how they forced him to take “meds.” He kept telling me the “meds” were poison and he would not take them. He was right. The “meds” killed him. I’m convinced that what happened was a combo of “meds” and smoking, but the smoking was due to “meds.” The meds make it nearly impossible to quit smoking.

    I believe they were trying to do that to me, but they did not succeed. I was so, so lucky! They were pushing Zyprexa on me. I had tried it back in 1997 and the doc stopped the drug almost immediately and told me I should not take it. I knew it would cause ridiculous weight gain. I found out that this was their aim. However, it has already been proven beyond a doubt that forcing weight gain by coercing a person onto antipsychotic drugs does not cure anorexia, and very often, it worsens ED. I’d already been through it! It took me a while but I figured out that they wanted to get me on the injectable. Their aim was to try out the Zyprexa just to see what happened, and then, get me into a psych ward, sending me to my doom.

    One reason the psych wards wouldn’t take me (thank goodness) is that my kidneys had failed. This meant too much liability. An outside agency came in to evaluate me. The conclusion was that any agitation I was displaying was due to the abuse by hospital personnel and due to the extreme noise level on the hospital floor. Thanks to those very young crisis workers, I was freed from that horrible place.

    It took me a very long time to recover from the abuse trauma to even get to a point where I was functional. All these years I have not really had anyone to talk to about what happened. No, anger isn’t a disorder. It is a normal and expected reaction to abuse. (Do I need to boldface that?) I relied on writing to help me. Even now, I can get very worked up if I am re-traumatized. Very slowly, I’m getting over it, piece by piece. I channel the anger into activism. It makes me a better activist for sure.

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  • yeah, good point there. “Alternative medicine” is regularly debunked by Western Med because many of those alternatives are a threat to pharma and the medical device companies.

    They already know, for instance, a way to survive without dialysis. They don’t want us to know. They use excuses like, “That’s only done in poor countries” but guess what? Alternatives make a whole lot more sense than invasive surgery to create a fistula, and then, putting a person on a machine. For life. Or shall I say for the rest of one’s life that you wish you never chose.

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  • I gotta laugh, DS. I had this awesome tooth fairy named Danny. I even exchanged letters with Danny. I loved that more than anything. Imagine a tooth fairy who writes back! Funny, though, Danny’s handwriting changed sometimes, from the right-handed, angular writing of my dad, to the beautiful left-handed script my mom wrote. Hmm…was Danny DID? Of course, that wasn’t up for debate. No, he was a real tooth fairy. Of course.

    I did know that Santa and the Easter Bunny were fake. Those were for Christian children, not for me. Not my chimney! No fat guy would fit down there, and I seriously wondered about any chimney on the block. Now if only people would realize that mental illness is a similar delusion, but oddly, grownups are the ones who believe this. Kids generally know better. Till they get brainwashed.

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  • I agree that many participants, in particular, the lowest level “staff,” will certainly need to recover. Imagine how terrible it would be to come to the realization that putting someone in solitary was unbelievably cruel. Strapping someone to a bed meant you had abused them. I bet most “staff” would be scared to admit it. It hurts too much, likely, so they avoid coming to this realization even if it is staring them in the face.

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  • Naw, I don’t think it’s inadvertent if their goal is to make us obedient. If we are, that’s called “responding to treatment.” I have to laugh because when I was incarcerated the stupid nurses claimed that if I went to group it would show that I was “better.” No, it would show that I was submitting myself to idiot groups like Bingo which were insulting and demeaning to many of us.

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  • PD, I think of those recovery modalities as as “psychiatry’s little sister.” They are part of psychiatry. When I say I am antipsych, I really also mean the entire MH system. Incarceration, brainwashing, labeling, the whole bit. It all has to go. It’s all harmful. I do not care how “nice” a therapist is. Unless their real goal is to keep a person away from the System (which is hugely ironic anyway, as they are part of it), or a therapist that helps someone escape, then I certainly have no use for it. If they’re doing that, then it’s not therapy. It’s something else.

    The best therapists share information and that only. Might be information like, “Did you know that taking that drug will put you at risk for diabetes?” “Have you noticed that ever since you entered the MH system, your life has gone further and further downhill.” This would useful. Most will not even come close.

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  • I do not think psych drugs should go off the market. I think prescribing should go off the market. What if people could go out to a pharmacy and purchase whatever they wanted? This would lower the god-like power AND the economic power of the MD. People would no longer go to an MD to get a “refill.” Why, when if you want drugs that badly, you can go buy them? In my opinion, “prescribing” psych drugs takes no brains at all. Anyone can go find one of those charts and figure out how to titrate if they want the drugs that badly. I know that is what they rely on. Charts. Anyone can read one. However, if they knew the real effects of the drugs, I doubt many would purchase them. Some would, of course, but likely they would not stay on them. Who wants a drug like Zyprexa which will soon enough make you very very fat? Remember that awesome video done by the Zyprexa rep who finally spoke out? Yes, it’s really true…you can indeed tell someone on psych drugs a mile away, especially if you have had the experience yourself. Twitching, agitation, being very overweight, and unkempt appearance because if you are fighting off fatigue and the urge to pace, who is really going to care about grooming, anyway? Never mind they make us so poor we can’t afford decent clothes.

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  • Stephen, that was pretty much my parents experience of NAMI. Back then, it was a gripe group about kids that refused so-called treatment. They asked why this was happening and the parents talked about ways they could trick their kids into agreeing. My dad told me, “I’m so glad you are compliant because I would not want to do that.” Still, he was somewhat baffled by my unquestioning worship of my doctors. He tried to get me to question their actions. I know there were times my parents would call them up and question. Instead of joining in, I was a bit peeved that they doubted the gods. One time, my dad told me to write down if they ever did anything dubious.

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  • It is comforting to some people that they can just send the person to a mental health professional and use that as an excuse not to talk to that person. Been through it myself, when people said to me, “That’s for the therapist’s office. Why don’t you talk to her?” Thing was, I really did not have anyone to talk to back then and the therapy was abusive.

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  • That is a great question, KateL. If your brother was wandering around in a store and psychosis wasn’t considered a disease, then my guess is they would not have called the cops. He wasn’t doing anything illegal and I’m sure he felt very threatened by the presence of the cops. I would, too, if a cop approached me and I wasn’t a crook. Hmm…if I was a crook, I’d also feel rather nervous.

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  • Phil, I totally agree. If we get rid of psychiatry, we won’t be calling depression or any other problem a disease. We will know that these are not diseases at all, but meanwhile, we will validate people’s suffering even more since it’s not a disease they can use as an excuse. It IS suffering, for many people. It’s not permanent and the “effects” of drugs doesn’t prove that there was at any time, a “chemical imbalance.” This is backwards logic for sure.

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  • Dragon slayer, you’re not alone. I remember, for example, I tried to get the Foundation for Excellence to help me publicize my anthology. They flat out refused. I will never forget that. They said that I had no expertise to be doing the project. Is an MFA in creative writing not enough to edit a collection of writings? Since when is a MH professional more qualified? They actually aren’t. Wow, I was so furious that I refuse to read their newsletters. By the way, the project failed due to lack of submissions. The Foundation for Excellence is not the only organization that refused to help publicize. I need to cry over that. Yet one more project I was not able to get off the ground because honestly, I hate selling anything.

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  • I think one of the most abusive things that psych does is to put people out of work. Once we are out of the workforce, they can pretty much do anything. Schedule multiple appointments, even day programs. People who are put out of work are not likely to be able to return. We have no work history to fall back on. I am lucky I got employed and now, I have enough work history so that I do not arouse suspicion. Trying to get a mortgage, though, they asked for tax returns going back a few years. Telling them I was out of the country did not work. Because my work has been independent contractor they said I had to have a solid work history for two years. I found out about a mortgage opportunity that I likely qualify for. However, I decided to hold off anyway. I want to have the option to move anytime I want.

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  • I agree. Many therapists do transfer whatever is going on with them. I remember some of the therapists said they had abusive parents. Sure enough, they imposed this on their patients regularly. Interestingly, they imposed whatever type of abuse they themselves had been through. For some of us, this created false memories and split up families.

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  • Wow, good point, Stephen. I was a patient back in the days when psychiatry and even therapy was considered dubious, far out, and wacko. Hardly anyone engaged in their “services” and I don’t recall most of us buying into their false logic. I did not. My decision to try therapy (for an eating disorder) was pretty much due to peer pressure from an employer I had worked for. Interestingly, he was one of the most self-absorbed people I had ever met. Back in the late 1970s, this mentality was frowned upon. I was brought up told that it was something you avoided. I remember feeling very guilty if ever I came close. At the time, I was truly disgusted with the employer, although I kept that to myself. I decided to “try” therapy, thinking I’d only do it for the summer. I got sucked right in. Therapy was extremely addicting. I was in the system over a year before I took drugs…and believe it or not, I begged for them.

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  • Szasz was totally awesome. I love reading him. He is truly a great writer and entertaining, also. I cannot put him down. All this rather amazing considering technically, he was a shrink. My experience of shrinks is that they lack intelligence and lack insight into pretty much everything. My parents were shocked over this, too, and the lacking of the “staff” also. “They just don’t seem very smart,” my mom said. Was anyone listening? Apparently it did not sink in with me for decades.

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  • Dr. Goetche (sorry, I do not know how to do the special character to make the proper spelling), I love that you pointed out that as soon as a person is forcibly incarcerated, anything that happens is forced. Of course it is. You’re behind locked doors! And might I add that in the USA, any incarceration is involuntary. You may sign a “conditional voluntary” paper, but you sign it when you’re on the ward already. Also, once you are there, you can’t get out. Not voluntary! Anyone who thinks it is voluntary is surely deluded.

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  • Wasn’t it Pink Floyd that said, “Leave the kids alone!” I think that was from “The Wall,” but I’m not sure.

    Oh, now I remember, “Teacher, leave those kids alone.” Those were the words.

    I was working in education and I saw them try to fit the kids into the ADHD box. This worked out great for the kid on occasion because he was able to use his “severe attention disorder” as excuse to skip school. He couldn’t pay attention or he got distracted…He knew what was going on.

    Funny, they said to me, “We have to know that he’s in school. If he is skipping school, and goes and robs a bank, the school would be held responsible.” Now this made no sense given his age, and also, if he was supposedly that distracted then how could he concentrate well enough to pull off a bank robbery? I was so concerned that already, he was tagged as a juvenile delinquent.

    One day, after my job had really gotten bad, I was crying so hard I could not contain myself. When you see abuse via diagnosis and coercing onto disability, for me, it was so upsetting that I started to refuse to do my job. I wanted to be kind instead, and they didn’t like this very much.

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  • Wow, Fred, that is terrible that 1. you were injured in a car accident and 2. that they decided it was a mental disorder. Yes, I agree, we all need an apology and some should get some monetary reparations. I keep thinking the lost wages for 35 years would certainly get me a big sum. I think, also, they should pay back American taxpayers who paid a bundle for my fake treatment. This includes ECT. If anyone thinks that was therapy, they’re delusional.

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  • Bruce, I experienced the retaliation first hand. I never spoke out against them until I was abused in a hospital…I was 53 and they deprived me of water. There was no argument here, this is not a “perception” or “opinion.” I have diabetes insipidus and they really could have killed me by doing what they did. Never mind the verbal and physical abuse as well.

    After that, I was so badly traumatized that I ended up not being able to handle it and they hospitalized me. The doctor there tried to get me into a state hospital but I guess it did not work, so they let me go after 26 days. I kept wondering why that had happened but now I realize that they felt they had to silence me.

    I tried telling my therapist and she insisted the unit I said I was on did not exist. Really? Possibly she was psychotic. I am not sure.

    That silenced me, except in my blog where I complained about it bitterly and repeatedly. This was a way for me to heal from the trauma. One day, must have been about a year and a half after the trauma, the same hospital, Mass General, told me over the phone that my insurance did not cover therapy there. This was actually a lie. I knew that what they had told me was somehow not legal. I put that in my blog and up on Twitter.

    Now, MGH had caught wind of what I was doing. I believe it was April that I went for my monthly “meds check” (ick) and my doctor chewed me out, yelling and hissing at me…really very bad and “mentally ill” behavior. I was so embarrassed I didn’t know what to do. I was sure that others in that office suite (8th floor of the Wang building, Wang 815, if anyone cares) had heard her. I knew they likely thought it was some patient “going off.” I am not sure how she explained it all to her colleagues later on. Anyway, she insisted I take an antipsychotic, saying, “Any antipsychotic will do, just take it! I’m giving you this drug to stop you from writing!” She explained that her administration had insisted on this, specifically to silence me. After that, after I had been seeing her 12 years, I fired her. My last appointment was June.

    In August, 2013, that’s when my kidneys failed. I made the major mistake of telling them it was okay to contact my former psychiatrist. That’s when they started abusing me very badly. Physical abuse, verbal abuse, etc. Before that, they had been quite sweet to me. They tried to force me many times to take an antipsychotic drug. They also tried to have me committed to a psych ward. When it was clear that this may not be possible, they then told me they wouldn’t let me out unless I took Zyprexa. I took one pill because they were threatening me so badly. I believe their intention was to get me onto an injectable. That did not happen. They had an outside team evaluate me and they determined that I wasn’t a danger to anyone and then, the hospital was forced to let me out. I promised them I would go to a day program. Just to make sure I did not have a cop raid, I went three days, and then, quit.

    I saw one other shrink who insisted I had not been abused, that I was “psychotic” and she said “If you refuse to take an antipsychotic, you have no use for me.” I was very happy not to have any use for her. She also asked me five times if I had a gun and if I felt like killing anyone. Huh? I never saw a shrink again. I saw a nephrologist for kidney disease and after he threatened me, I realized I was going to have to leave ASAP. I did! I left the country.

    Even then, I had online bullies. I believe they were hired people and likely, it was MGH that hired them. I managed to use spam filters to get rid of them.

    In 2017, I had a speaking engagement lined up. Months passed and after they published the list of speakers, apparently some unknown person called the conference organizer and then I was then canned. I did not find out who it was. Likely, they told her I was psychotic. I’m so, so tired of these accusations. Anyone who knows me knows that I am not, but these assholes out there continue to accuse. I think they do not want to hear my story, or they want my story totally discredited.

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  • Bruce, this is so amazing. You are one of THEIR worst enemies. I hope you keep yourself well protected because THEY tend to retaliate. I love your writings so much and because of this I am very very proud to call myself antiauthoritarian. I hope to get a diagnosis of the severest form of oppositional defiant disorder possible. Disorder? No, it is what keeps me alive, keeps me speaking out when others cannot or are afraid to, keeps me telling the truth. I must do this, as I see it as a sacred duty as a writer. I really hope they hate me, too. I should add, too, that I was a Lou Reed fan. Now I know why.

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  • Yes, very true, Steve Spiegel. I do have “problems” now that were created by psychiatry. I have abuse trauma and it affects me all the time. It changed me, changed the person I am. I was also harmed by their drugs. I have to deal with kidney disease now, which of course I solve by natural medicine and not their medicine. I have drug-induced insomnia which I believe, as of right now, I have finally solved. Eight years of insomnia turning me into a bitch…..But now it seems to be solved.

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  • Yes, it is sad that Jamison recommended that people poison their kidneys. Ever wonder why we “mental patients” had pimples? Lithium caused this. The first signs of the kidney destruction will appear in the skin. Your skin, which is an amazing organ, will try to do to work of the kidneys, getting rid of toxins that now, the kidneys can’t filter out.

    At this point of my life, since my kidneys are barely functioning, I allow my skin to do this work. In the northern hemisphere we are approaching summer. Instead of using an air conditioner, I recommend allowing yourself to sweat, which will help to remove these toxins. Foregoing the AC is an inexpensive way to give yourself a sauna. You are saving on your electric bill and also saving your life.

    Survivors of lithium will need to reduce protein, sodium, and phosphorus, but not potassium as usually recommended for those with kidney harm. Also, since lithium causes diabetes insipidus, you should not try to limit water. You will need to drink as much as thirst demands, to avoid dehydration, and also you will need to actively work on keeping up your potassium levels. This can be done by eating potassium-rich foods or, if these are not available, taking a small amount of potassium supplement (I break those commercially-available potassium pills in half). If your potassium has dropped you can tell because you get hiccups and/or very painful muscle contractions (cramping). I don’t know why magnesium will help balance out electrolytes. I’m still researching this.

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  • It was my paternal grandmother that turned me onto Chagall. My grandmother was subject to sterilization…this, I am convinced now, was part of the eugenics movement. She was afraid to talk about it, did not dare to say aloud in front of us kids, but I did, eventually, hear it. She had one child and then they cut off her ability to have more. This affected her for her whole life, and totally explains her protective attitude toward me (which, by the way, the shrinks claimed was pathological!). I was her only granddaughter, which ultimately meant I was the daughter she never was allowed to have.

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  • I agree. The transition is not easy. I have made a study of the transition–and, as a person who was brainwashed for 35 years I can say this–it doesn’t happen overnight. I put some observations of the process in my book (Life After Lithium) saying that for some, the grieving is unbearable. I have known many whose anger (part of grieving) gets mistaken for mental illness which drives them right back to psychiatry. Many will not leave since they’ve identified as mental patients for so long, they fear losing their identity, their selves, in the process. “I AM bipolar, so how can I give up who I am?” When you leave a cult (I am also a cult survivor) you go through the same bewilderment. “Who am I now?” We need to reach out with compassion, help these folks go through this transition. Mostly, they need to be aware of what it is, and why it’s happening.

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  • Thanks, Lucy, I went to read one of your articles in MITUK and found that to comment, i had to create a separate account over there. I am too lazy to do this, I suppose. I wanted to say that for whatever reason, when reading your story about journeying into the Maori cultures and realizing the importance of story, I started thinking of the stories of my own people. I cannot help but realize (yes, I happen spell it with a z…) that my own story parallels the Passover story, and funny, too, we’ve just finished our Passover celebration.

    Why did we leave Egypt? Because we had to. We had no choice. It was like we were not only forced to escape, but we also fled in absolute terror. Me too! I was so scared when I left the US, scared they’d stop me at the airport, or they’d find a way to put me away before I could leave. Afterward, I was criticized by ignorant people who said I ran away because I had a personality disorder, that I would never be satisfied and that any of these consequences I surely brought upon myself. The only thing I could do was to shake my head and walk away.

    We live in such a sick society that turns against anyone they do not like and will blame that person for every problem they ever had. I kept wondering why that kept happening, why, for instance, fat people turned against me because I was thin and they had to struggle, hated because I was smart and others resented it, hated for so many reasons that were not something I had myself created, but they had created. I had to run away from the hate.

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  • I have just heard AWESOME NEWS on the Breggin show….This great psychiatrist who has had a turnaround because she realized the truth about her own profession, from Wisconsin, Gail ___ (I can’t recall her last name and it’s hard to pronounce) is going to testify for Marci. This is very good news indeed. I wish I could call into the show and thank her but it seems that Breggin isn’t taking calls. I am keeping my fingers crossed for Marci. It must be horrible in that “hospital” to have to endure such abuse. I am hoping she is released at last.

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  • This is in response to Steve Spiegel’s comment. Would someone who identifies as an AP activist wander around stinking and acting incoherent? Possibly, but not likely. Anyone who is capable of understanding basic AP ideological concepts likely doesn’t have severe cognitive issues. People who have just had ECT or are heavily drugged are less likely to grasp the concepts. But that’s the object, right? Keep us as clueless as possible.

    I suspect MI denial will show up as a mental disorder eventually. Then, we all better watch out. If that happens and we are asked, just lie and tell them we worship the DSM and their disorders. Tell them if we ever got depressed we’d go to a shrink immediately. Then, walk away and laugh.

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  • Hi Hidden,
    Thanks for your comment. I do have a Twitter account but I don’t use it very much. I used to have my blog entries go up on Twitter which increases visibility of course, but now I don’t do that. I should think about tweeting some of the entries. I have a YouTube channel that I use occasionally. Making a video is a lot of work and time-consuming. However, these will reach a large audience.

    I believe my blog has over 5,000 entries. I likely put up about 300 to 500 entries a year, and these are all original and mostly text. Some entries are thousands of words long, and all entries are spontaneously written. People don’t realize this. I do not go through them, re-do them, or do much editing. They are what they are. I liken this to painting with acrylics. You have to finish the painting fast because the paints dry so quickly.

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  • Kate, you asked what would happen, if psychiatry were eradicated, if a person wanted to commit suicide. Being upset, sad, etc, isn’t a crime, so why should a person who is suffering get locked up like they’re a criminal?

    If there were no “hospitals,” teens would much more likely open up about suicidal feelings. There will be no threat of a nuthouse to keep them silent and scared. Much of suicide happens because of the MH system. Hospitalization increases suicide, because after a person gets out, they are 100 times more likely to commit suicide than a non-mental patient. Not only that, therapy often pushes a person to suicide, because much of the time, therapy encourages the very same problems it is supposed to solve. Psychiatric drugs often cause agitation, a precursor to suicide. I bet if we eradicated the mental health system, suicide would decrease, not increase.

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  • Oldhead, I think there will be a bootleg psychiatry. People practicing it illegally. (Not that a lot of shrinks don’t already do that.) Shrinks will practice under the table, diagnosing minorities, immigrants, and Muslims. What a great way to spread hatred. Drug ’em, lock ’em up. Even though it will no longer be legal, shrinks will practice because people will still be interested in having those they hate put away.

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  • I think people are thinking they don’t want integration. Psychiatry is a great segregator. People love that we’re contained in “hospitals,” “programs,” and “homes.” They love that we’re excluded from the workplace and that we don’t have money, which disempowers us. They want to keep us as useless waste, as they see it. Why? Because then those who aren’t crazy can gain power, gain money, and no one’s going to complain. This is what is partially behind the argument that something has to replace psychiatry…because people can’t stand the idea of us living among them.

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  • Those that are anti-war do not deny the existence of war. Those that are anti-nuke do not deny the existence of nukes. Likewise, those of us who align with antipsychiatry do not believe psychiatry doesn’t exist. We recognize it as an atrocity that should be stopped. How much of it should be stopped seems to be the question. Is any of it redeemable? While there are some things about it that might be called helpful, when they add the rest of it into the mix, we realize that the harms and the resulting consequences are too high a price to pay.

    This is also true of employees of the mental health system, who enter thinking they are going to help people. However, what is the help, really, beyond being an outlet for people who are troubled? Along with that comes diagnosing and possibly causing harm by so doing, referral to a psychiatrist, creating a ghetto-like environment, creating dependency that didn’t exist before, and being legally obligated to section a person at slightest remote hint or allusion to anything that makes you uncomfortable.

    People do like having someone to talk to, but it comes with such a heavy price that, if one were to know the real pros and cons (most of which are hidden until you buy the service), very few would choose to have it in their lives.

    One of the main reasons I object to psychiatry is that once you buy this service, even if you assume it is your own choice, if you decide you don’t want it anymore, you can’t end it. Psychiatry is an unending subscription service. “You can check out anytime you want, but you can never, ever leave,” as we used to say. Invariably, anyone who subscribes will experience a decline in all areas of life, including spiritual, physical (one’s health and surroundings), social, economic, and premature end of life.

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  • I support Marci for many reasons. One is that I, too, was abused in a hospital. Many do not realize that when you are going through ongoing abuse over a long period of time, the stress is unbelievable and it’s very hard not to seem agitated. The more the staff provokes a patient, the more upset the patient is going to get, and that, of course, is further fuel to claim the patient is nuts…and this prompts worsening of the abuse.

    It takes an outsider, someone honest who sees the bigger picture, to recognize that any presentation of agitation in the patient is environmentally caused.

    As example in my own experience, when I was being abused at Mount Auburn Hospital, in Cambridge, MA, when I had kidney failure, I did end up having outsiders come to “evaluate” me. The intention of the Mount Auburn doctors was that the outsiders would deem me crazy enough to be transferred to a psych hospital. That’s not what happened.

    I was visited by these outside evaluators twice. The first time, the person walked into my room and said, “My god, the noise level is so bad here that it’s a human rights issue.” She was talking about the constant blaring of loudspeaker and patient call bells. Bingo! It had taken until then before anyone heard me. This simple and truthful observation started us off on the right foot. I explained how the staff had pushed me by verbal abuse to the point where I totally broke. I explained that when you have no potassium in your body, you might not exactly make much sense, which was the reason I was totally incoherent upon arrival (I was on the verge of “coding”). The outside person understood that I had been falsely accused by the hospital doctors of dangerousness. They stopped the sitters after this, allowed me to keep my door shut to shut out the noise (the nurses were furious about this!) and then, they were forced to let me out of there.

    This is the kind of objective observer that Marci needs. She needs someone to realize that disliking cruelty isn’t a mental disorder, in fact, it is a sign of sanity.

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  • Frank, I agree that the reasons for “treatment” are more than what they public realizes. It is a historical fact that whistleblowers and other antiauthoritarians are subject to wrongful incarceration, including being locked up in a nuthouse. If the authorities want to silence someone they’ll do whichever one they can get away with.

    You can hire a doctor and pay that doctor to deem a person nuts or demented. It’s been done. It is regularly done to elderly.

    I’m sure there are political adversaries they’d like to directly kill if they could. They can’t because they’ll get caught. They have clever alternatives: Drive the person crazy by verbal abuse till they off themselves, claim the person is psychotic, thereby wrecking their credibility, or by drugging and/or incarcerating.

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  • Frank, therapy can indeed kill you. Indirectly. Psychiatry also kills indirectly, because the psychiatrist doesn’t actually take a gun out and shoot the patient. Patients die from treatment ordered/prescribed by psychiatrists. The treatment is self-administered by a patient through lies and coercion, or administered by a nurse.

    Therapy also kills. I know, because I have been subject to therapy in a very harmful way. Imagine having this person who is supposedly an authority figure telling you you’re addicted to water, that you deserve to be in a state institution, that you are psychotic and invented hospital abuse, that you are a sneaky liar, that everything that happened to you you brought upon yourself. All of these repeated to me twice a week for over a year. Not only that, I was repeatedly threatened that if I didn’t obey and lost as little as a half pound, I’d be hospitalized. It was degrading and humiliating to live under these conditions, living in terror of the next police visit. Because of Maria, I really did almost kill myself. That was 2012. I am lucky I did not, and lucky I didn’t tell anyone. You have to recover from an abusive therapist. I had no one to tell, no one to talk to, and whenever I tried telling people they refused to believe it was that bad, but it was. I had to get over it on my own, which I did by blogging about it until the impact of the story had softened some.

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  • The biggest, most obvious problem with psychiatry is that they lock people up and take away their rights. The create dependency, not only on drugs, but on therapy. They create disability with their drugs and “side effects” and also simply by labeling and calling a person “disabled.” Putting a person on disability, effectively ending their careers, will seal this into further permanence. Thus, an “illness” is born. Yes, it is becoming an epidemic. Shouldn’t our growing anger over their gross human rights violations be enough?

    Phil, I want to also ask about psych’s new tactic: Calling us “mental illness deniers.” Aligning us via this terminology with climate change deniers and Holocaust deniers. It sounds like a new disease to me that might show up in the DSM-6.

    They did not expect us to make widespread use of the internet, mainly because they assumed we had no interest or we lacked the capacity to use it. Surprise, surprise! We can now gather, compare stories, and make tactical decisions on how to push our cause. Where to go from here?

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  • As I said Steve, they had their textbook ideas, and I suppose what mattered was which textbook stereotype they were using. They had no clue what my upbringing was like. I would love to write about antisemitism in psych because I heard “typical Jewish upbringing” a lot, or “Jewish mother,” or even telling me I was a “spoiled Jewish girl.” Because they were authority figures (and through schooling, I’d been taught not to doubt them), I would just nod my head and say nothing. Even the Jewish therapists would make remarks like that.

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  • I certainly agree, Alex. I had 35 years of my life stolen from me, which is very hard to face. I think I’m over it now, but I’m not over water deprivation, which left me confused, angry, hurt, and terrified. I’m not over being called psychotic and dangerous when by all means, I wasn’t. I am not over being put on suicide watch (which was abusive) when they knew I wasn’t suicidal. I am still having a hard time with the fact that they didn’t just not apologize, didn’t just totally deny that they’d done anything wrong, didn’t just call me psychotic and try to drug me to silence me, but even afterward continued to harass me online (thought I do not have direct evidence of this, only deduced evidence) and they did everything they could to wreck my reputation.

    I am still afraid. After water deprivation trauma I’ve been prone to get traumatized very easily. It’s like every memory of anything that ever happened to me haunts me all the time. (This is a blessing, too, if you write memoir!)

    As far as holding resentment over the lost 35 years, naw, I can’t bemoan that forever. People lose years of their lives to bad marriages, unsuccessful business attempts, and natural disasters. It’s not like I’m the only one. Knowing this certainly softens the blow.

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  • Sam, I don’t doubt that dissociation exits. Running is a meditation for me, but also, running, if you do enough of it, could be called dissociation. You stop thinking running thoughts, such as, “I really should be running faster,” or, “Maybe I should have tied my left shoe tighter.” You stop that kind of thought and you go into another zone altogether. It is like you don’t have legs anymore. Sometimes, I whisper a silly mantra to myself, such as, “Nyah nyah,” or I say swear words at my former therapist who forbade me to run, but that, also, ceases to have any real meaning after a while.

    A long time ago, when I was about 16, I was babysitting and the kids had gone to bed. They had a gray cat. The cat came up to me and started getting affectionate. As I stroked the cat, stroked her nose, that is, I recall feeling like we were totally glued together like that, me and the cat. It was like we were totally one. I must have sat there, mesmerized, for at least an hour. Was this due to adolescence, or because petting an animal is powerful and healing? It never happened again. By all means, it was not an unpleasant experience.

    Later, after ECT caused me to become very spaced out, my doctor claimed the confusion I was experiencing was dissociation. I went and looked it up. I remember shaking my head and saying to myself, “Huh?” It didn’t describe what I was going through, not at all. Years later I knew he and the others had been way, way off base. I wonder if he knows now.

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  • We aren’t immune to errors in judgement. Making a mistake isn’t a mental illness, either. I made a mistake when I posted what I said about Matt. I didn’t do it because of some kind of character disorder, but because of some leftover anger.

    One day, about a month ago, I made an error at work. It wasn’t a mistake in judgement, but from working too quickly and overlooking something. The supervisor asked me why I did it (it wasn’t a huge offense or anything!) and I said, “Human error.” I think she was shocked at that.

    It was a mistake for me to go on a crash diet in 1980, and also, it was a mistake to think that what happened afterward was due to a mental defect worthy of “therapy.” I had no clue, and honestly, I was really, really scared, mostly scared that binge eating would totally incapacitate me. It can! Try eating 10,000 calories in a sitting. You will be lying in bed moaning and holding your stomach for a very long time!

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  • Sam, Of course, brains change. Anorexia harmed my ability to think straight and I was scared I would never be able to think properly again. What I learned was that food will remedy this, and your brain can recover. I also read The Body Keeps the Score. I was okay with it until I got to the part that started showing vague pictures of brain scans that were supposed to prove something. The book took a turn down the deep end for me when it started saying the changes are permanent and can only be remedied by a therapist.

    People can be stuck in a certain mode, for sure. Therapy and labeling can cause the stuckness, promote it and even thrive on it. Spend a week in day treatment and you’ll see therapists encouraging undesirable behaviors such as cutting or sulking. It can even be lethal.

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  • There are a lot of factors. We have a media that is still running pharma ads, even though these ads have been banned in other countries. The pharma industry is the most powerful lobbying agency in Washington. We put people in prisons, call them “hospitals,” and wonder why they only leave angry, confused, dismayed, or even suicidal. We have a media that only portrays one side of the story. Meanwhile, there’s an undercurrent of distrust of the medical profession. I believe the distrust is growing as more and more are harmed or their loved ones are harmed. Something is brewing. Maybe a revolution!

    The Industrial Revolution wasn’t a battle, there was no warfare. There was just a radical change. We can hope that as more and more start to question, we will start to see some positive changes around us. Isn’t it inevitable? As psychiatry gets more pervasive in society, they could very well push it so far that the entire field implodes.

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  • Samruck, I don’t see your comment here, but when you say one sixth are drugged, wherever that statistic comes from, isn’t that kinda shocking?

    I would say the statistic is much higher among the elderly. How many elders are on cocktails of blood pressure drugs, etc…AND a psych drug or two? This alone is so alarming that maybe we need to take some action! When women are pathologized just for being women, isn’t that a problem? If foster kids are given antipsychotics for the explicit purpose of control, aren’t we, as a society, in huge trouble? When whistleblowers get diagnosed just to silence them…well?

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  • Danzig, various religions have been arguing over who is right and who is righteous for a very long time. One country conquers another, or takes over. Unfortunately, this ends up being like eugenics. “We are better than they are.” It’s nonsense, but quite pervasive. People can believe whatever they want. We hope they do not hurt each other just because they do not agree.

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  • Little Turtle, I can’t find your question here about what I think about critical psychiatry vs antipsychiatry….

    Every bad idea out there has its redeeming qualities. Otherwise, the idea would be immediately struck down. Drawing here from my experience in the Moonies when I was 21 (before my ED started), I can recall I got sucked in by the good things about the Moonies. They talked a lot about love, compassion, and hope for a better future. This looked very appealing to me in 1979. Others were also sucked into it. While we were brainwashed, we did not recognize the bad things that were happening. We barely noticed that they used sleep deprivation (five hours a night) and added sugar to the food they gave us. They used songs and catchy slogans. The songs were beautiful, all of us singing together. Then they introduced concepts that I couldn’t tolerate. Jesus, heaven and hell, and even devils and angels. These concepts were foreign to me. I knew by my Jewish upbringing to reject these ideas. Now what? They pleaded with me to have an open mind, that “Father loves you,” etc. Do you see how this worked? They used kindness to get me to give them my money. They tried to coerce me to give up college and my job, too.

    Psychiatry and the entire industry uses the same techniques to draw people in. When I first went to the hospital, they were nice to me. They said stuff like “You did the right thing to ask for help.” “You’re in the right place.” Some of the therapists in day treatment were also very nice…or seemed so. One of them even warned me not to start day treatment. She had been around long enough to know what would happen.

    If the hospital, therapy, and psychiatrists were outwardly abusive from the start, I would have left sooner. One of them was, called me a spoiled rich Jewish girl, but I dismissed him as an “exception.” I believe most at least thought they had good intentions. The Moonies with whom I had contact certainly had good intentions, having no clue what they were really doing. Good intentions don’t make it morally okay. Many people who work for corrupt industries have good intentions when they do bad things. They are cogs in a destructive wheel.

    Looking back in the historical sense, many of my former shrinks and therapists left the profession in disgust. Some got in trouble with the law for very serious offenses. One that I know of got burnt out, then, returned. Some retired. I think most of them are scared to admit, even to themselves, that they caused great harm to me and to many of their patients, justifying it by claiming it was “necessary.” It wasn’t.

    Do I wish to abolish psychiatry? Yes, because it is harmful to people and to human society. It is a practice based in eugenics.

    I do think that having another person you can talk to is very important. I do believe people suffer immensely. I do not call these things mental illnesses. If I am having a hard time, it means I need to take action. The hard part is figuring out what the appropriate action is. Talking to a therapist or doing avoidant “coping skills” and calling the problem MY disease, only delays or even halts that action. I have to figure out how much power I have to change things, and how much patience I have to tolerate the things I have no power to change. Interestingly, a lot changes on its own….if we let it.

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  • Pacific Dawn, I had a lot to get better from. Ninety-nine percent of it was caused by “treatment.” One percent was due to my own foolishness, including the bad choice to go on a diet in the first place (an uninformed choice, as I was clueless about the consequences), and the bad choice to try therapy. Drugs were also my choice. I literally begged for them back in 1982 because I hoped they would “fix” my eating disorder (therapy wasn’t helping), but this also wasn’t an informed choice, and the drugs I got weren’t what I wanted anyway. By then, it was too late.

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  • Yes, we see more and more people realizing that the mental health industry is unhelpful. Getting away won’t necessarily lead to good results immediately. People go through grieving and we all grieve differently. Inevitably, many are angry. This is understandable, and often very necessary. If only we could channel all that rage into some action to end the psych regime! We aren’t channeling it very efficiently if we continue to attack each other, instead of bringing it where it belongs.

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  • For me, the only way that I could have regained my ability to think independently was to end therapy. I do not wish to think the way my therapists demanded. Therapy taught me self-absorption and self-blame, reflective of an entire cultural era in the USA of scrupulous examination of the self. It was addictive and harmful. Turning inward is not the answer. Maybe it’s okay occasionally, but I wouldn’t make a habit of it now.

    I’m trying to make up for all the years I lost to therapy. Trying to teach myself as much as I can, trying to help other people, reaching out, doing good things as much as possible to make the world a better place.

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  • In journalism, writing, music, public speaking, anytime you have an audience you must consider who is in that audience. You can tell the same story or deliver the same message but you have to do it in a way that the audience can relate.

    In journalism, you must know the publication’s target audience. An article might do well in one publication, but not another. If I have written something and want to get it published I can send anywhere at random and hope that the magazine accepts it. However, I would be better off looking for a magazine that had an audience that matched the article.

    Nowadays, writing prostitution is quite common to the point where it has become the norm. Write something because it’ll sell, that’s the main mentality.

    I think writers should maintain their own integrity and write what they truly believe in, even if they know their ideas are going to be unpopular. Still, it is a choice. Kiss butt, or be yourself. I fear that too much butt-kissing can be habit-forming.

    Writers are also expected to sell their stuff. Pitching. Ugh. I don’t think selling has much to do with writing. It was truly liberating for me to realize that I could hire someone to do all that nasty selling stuff, so I wouldn’t have to waste writing energy on the marketing rat-race.

    I have hated selling since high school, when our high school band got coerced by a traveling salesman to sell burlap bags as a way of making money for the band. I sold many, walked around various neighborhoods going door-to-door asking for a dollar for each bag, which we would deliver to them sometime in the future. This was something like 1974. A dollar was worth more then. Finally, our bags arrived and we had to distribute them to those who had paid the dollar. The bags were poor quality, pretty much useless items. I was so embarrassed to have to have sold them so aggressively. It has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

    What’s worse, writers have to market themselves these days, not just their writing. This is not the same as self-promotion, but way too close for comfort for me. Too many writers cross the line, getting on Facebook and kissing butt to the masses. No thanks.

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  • Oldhead, I believe some prisons are worse than others. Still, the fact that I liked it early on doesn’t mean it was a good place or even humane.

    The fact that I actually liked the hospital for a while was what sucked me in. I kept going back thinking, “They’re so nice.” I hoped they would actually help me, kept hoping and hoping until it was obvious they weren’t there to help people at all!

    In the beginning, I did not hate it, and didn’t mind going there. The best brainwashing isn’t done by cruelty, but by kindness.

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  • I think it was the field of philosophy or logic that determined that while a person can easily be declared insane, it is not possible to then declare a known insane person sane.

    Thinking back, it was very easy to fake a psych diagnosis but it is not so easy to convince them you’re normal. No matter how normal you act, they can always claim you’re weaseling out of a hospitalization or drugs.

    Even most “invisible illnesses” can be detected by a test. Those that can’t…well, I doubt the validity of many of them.

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  • As I saw it, the stays were far less unpleasant back then. It did make a difference when they took away the pool and ping pong tables, took away the smoking room, took away decent quality art supplies, our rights to keep our shoelaces and dental floss…the list is endless. The units weren’t locked and were run differently. With the old units, there was an advantage to having a chance for them to get to know you. Any of this could (and should) have happened at the outpatient level, but rarely did, which was the sad reality of why some of us kept going back. I even liked some of the staff at those places. I wouldn’t have kept going back if I hadn’t. Gradually, as more and more units became locked, the quality of staff got worse and worse. Patients stopped liking the hospitals and started dreading having to go back. Many staff were completely untrained and didn’t know what they were doing. The decent ones quit in disgust, or if they stayed they had to break rules just to be kind. Some were fired for being too nice.

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  • Hi Sandy, I have an MFA in creative writing with a concentration in memoir, Goddard College, 2009. I am also a survivor. I have written about ten books and I hear what you are saying about not being able to change an old text. My thesis, which I published, is a piece of history. Published writing is personal history even if it is not memoir. The work represents where I was at that time, ten years ago. I used the term “mental illness” as part of the secondary title. I will not take that back. That is what I believed in then. Now, I know better.

    When I wrote the book I had no clue, for instance, that the year and a half I spent “very ill” in 1997 or so was actually not an illness, but brain damage from ECT. It took me a long time to realize this, and now, I can go back and look on that chapter and realize just how misunderstood I was during that time.

    I am caught in the middle a lot when I write. My friend, whose intentions are certainly good, tells me that if I call a mental hospital a prison people are going to be turned off. But what else could it have been? I am caught between trying to sell a book and feeling driven to tell the truth.

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  • One of the prisons had “Tea and Toast.” Huge insult. Their idea of “challenging” was to play Group Bingo and get to be the one who put the pieces on the huge board. Geez. Every time I went to college I had no qualms about writing long papers, reading tons of books, and giving presentations. Go to the nuthouse and I got insulted by Bingo, and finally, told that even that was “too challenging” for little ole me. It was challenging because it was very hard to put up with the lowest expectations imaginable.

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  • AA worked for my late boyfriend. He got sober through AA and then, later on, was a role model for many younger people who were newly sober. He and I did not share much about AA because it was his turf, but it was my understanding that many picked him as a sponsor or mentor. He was what others would say “solid in his sobriety.” He also liked that the group is faith-based. AA helped him get back to his spiritual roots and gave him a lot of confidence and pride. But as I said, it was not my turf and I didn’t pry into his business.

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  • Many people have told me that OA didn’t work for them. It will work for overeaters sometimes, but not usually. I am not sure of the exact track record but from what I can tell, it’s not very good.

    We have a very strong, powerful diet industry in the US. These folks will sell you anything and make you think it will help you. There is the addictive nature of dieting to take into consideration also. I have known many to take the first step and then, end up trapped. The diet industry has many potential candidates!

    OA isn’t a for-profit institution, and there aren’t any particular leaders. It tends to be run in a democratic, though somewhat haphazard way.

    In OA, they have different factions with different beliefs. Perhaps you have heard of “Gray Sheet.” I don’t know if this still exists, but those that follow ‘Gray sheet” follow a very restrictive regimen. The problem with any of these restrictive programs is that the rigid mentality often harms people, making them worse.

    There are looser-run groups but these often consist of people who never quite get over overeating.

    Groups have formed based on OA or based on other 12-step groups such as GA. Some spin-offs focus on anorexia or bulimia. I imagine that by now, there’s one for binge eating also. There are a number of these. Some meet by telephone. I have not been too impressed with any of them, but some people derive benefit.

    When my friend was married to an alcoholic she used Weight Watchers as her escape from him. She told me that many of the women who went there were also escaping bad marriages temporarily. She tells me that the WW group was like a lifeline for her, her safe time away from her husband. I think this is quite valid since the husbands aren’t likely to suspect anything.

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  • John, If people can relate to your situation they will be more likely to support you. I think there’s a certain amount of snobbery in the movement…I wish this wasn’t the case but I think it’s the case everywhere. First of all, we don’t have to all like each other. Secondly, some folks still uphold the idea that some are superior to others.

    For example, when I was at a conference in 2017, I was excited to meet other activists. What happened, though, was that some did not even speak to me, even though I made effort to speak to them. I was a little unnerved when an activist that I assumed would at least say hello did not even acknowledge my presence. It was like I was invisible. After that I realized that the idea of eugenics is alive everywhere. Even in the movement, you will find some that feel that others are beneath them. This is a sad reality about humanity that I wish was not true. If we are to end psych diagnoses, that is, the idea that some people are of superior character and others inferior, then we also need to end elitism and snobbery.

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  • John, it was indeed like mob mentality for me back in Boston. My friends were paranoid about me and thought I would kill them. My minister (whom I assumed was an ally, wow was I wrong) also thought I would kill him. That sounds like psychosis to me, doesn’t it sound that way to you? Mass paranoia against someone who never harmed anyone. I did nto threaten either, but the psychs threatened me plenty. They are the danger to society. I sure wasn’t.

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  • Very true, John. I have had police raids in the past. They searched my home without my permission or knowledge and without a warrant. They came to “arrest” me based on speculation, no evidence, no warrant. I had done nothing wrong. They hauled me off by ambulance countless times. Still, this is a fraction of what they do, not all of it. Most of the time they are trying to get drivers to obey traffic rules. Psychs are always aiming to diagnose us, which is a hate crime.

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  • They are worse than the police. The cops sometimes do good things. If there’s a car accident they’ll help summon an ambulance and help get you out of the car. I met a cop who helped get a cat out of a tree when the animal officer was not on duty. Psychs do much less good in the world, except for those that turned against their own profession. What cop turns against his profession and then, blasts it to the rooftops like Szasz or Breggin? I have heard of none. There is plenty of anti-cop sentiment but that’s not because people see the entirety of the police as invalid, only some of it. I know one ex-drug cop who teaches people how to pass a drug test, but that is about the only cop I have heard of to turn against the cops as a profession. I do not doubt the validity of the cops. Their training and profession are valid and a lot of it teaches them good things, such as CPR or finding lost people. Around here, mostly cops stop drunk drivers. I bet that is 90% of their job right there. Some act like bullies but that’s not because what they are taught is totally invalid. Home raids on so-called MI are only a tiny fraction of their job, even though that is the most we ourselves see of them.

    Almost all of psychiatry is eugenics based. The very principles that guide diagnosis are steeped in condescending hatred toward those they see as inferior. I would not say that about cops, though I must admit I still fear them.

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  • That is not what Bob said, Oldhead. Psych was cruel and immoral back then, say, in the 1950’s, but now a huge portion of the population is diagnosed and drugged. I think I am around Bob’s age and I also do not remember anyone being diagnosed when I was in high school. Kids were said to have “problems.” Mostly, we solved our “problems” totally on our own. Life has indeed changed. At my workplace where there were younger people, many were diagnosed and many talked about it, too. Wow what culture shock this is.

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  • I am a writer, too. All writers have to change their stories a wee bit to satisfy their editors. It is ideally a cooperative venture. Still, think of it…to be published in the New Yorker is not an easy feat. It is a very prestigious publication and if anyone gets picked by them it’s their Big Break. I can see why Aviv might have had to concede. They might not have published Laura’s story at all if she had not.

    I have prostituted myself many times as a writer. It just depends on how much you do it. One time I had a piece published that for whatever reason, they butchered when they put it to print. There were spelling and punctuation errors that happened when they copied it over. I was furious and demanded that they re-do it, saying that the piece, as it was, embarrassed me.

    I have been published in CCHR publications and I am not ashamed of that. They appreciate my work, have thanked me, and honor me as a writer and you can’t ask for more than that.

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  • I have read all those books, most of them while I was in graduate school. I recall what Styron said of Dr. Gold, that he liked the man well enough, but that the doctor had failed to help him.

    I remember Andrew Solomon’s head trip with “agitated depression” which was clearly drug-induced. He does say so.

    As for inability to write, that’s about the worst thing that can happen to a writer. Or…being told you aren’t allowed to write and threatened with drugs if you do. I remember when I went into the nuthouses, I asked for a pencil and paper and that was all I needed to feel okay.

    To work through trauma from hospital abuse I wrote in my blog, told the story over and over until I was done with it. Writing is not only a comfort for me, but it is a means for activism and communication. I believe the one thing I want to do more than anything is to tell my story so that others will be forewarned, and also to bring hope to people. Yes, there is life after psychiatry.

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  • Treatment-resistant, in my case, meant they missed the boat entirely for 30 years. I would walk into their offices and say, “I am very depressed because I binged again.” They would say, “Never mind that. How is your bipolar?” Their bipolar-type treatments sure did not help my eating disorder. When they increased the meds, it didn’t help my ED any, so they called me “treatment-resistant” because I continued to complain.

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  • How is regression to the mean any different from peer pressure? I was in a day treatment program where all the other patients were much worse off than I was. They were suffering from TD, multiple incarcerations, and were overall very depressed. I didn’t even know what I was getting myself into, thinking it was going to be like college. I was definitely peer-pressured to become more disabled, more depressed, more incapable. Why? Because the rest of them were. I started smoking, too.

    In eating disorders prisons, kids are under immense peer pressure. “Almost dying” becomes the new “in” thing. If two are tubed, they all stop eating so they, too, can have the tube status symbol. When passing out becomes popular, well, you can guess.

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  • The subjects I hated most in school were lunch, recess, and gym. The reason was that I got teased the most during those times. I remember outside of school loving to ride my bike, to do gymnastics in the yard, or to stand on my head just for the heck of it. I’m fairly sure that if I tried I could still do that.

    I’m not sure how they could re-do gym class to avoid the social tiers that result. The tallest, or best coordinated always win. Someone else always loses.

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  • We can all be open about our vulnerabilities to an extent. The degree of this is different for everyone. At times, I may admit to someone that I am very afraid of doctors because I was harmed by one. Then they understand why I work so hard to be healthy. I might also explain why I hate being interrupted or being accused of interrupting. I will say that a long time ago I was in an abusive situation where I was not allowed to get a word in and constantly cut off by other people.

    If you bring your story to a point where others can relate, it isn’t just your story anymore. It is reflective of a universal struggle. Who does not want to be understood, loved, or included? Fear is fear for all of us, we feel it similarly, though we may fear different things.

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  • Schools need to teach relevant material. They need to get the kids fascinated and passionate about learning. Some schools succeed in doing that for some children. Most fail.

    Kids should be allowed (or required) to design a curriculum for themselves that works for them. They should be able to voice their opinion, and be heard, on school policies.

    I have noticed with all the children I meet with, they all seem to have peripheral interests that could be further explored at school, but aren’t. For some, these interests are so strong that they shouldn’t be peripheral, but in the foreground of their education. Schools have become career-oriented. For the most part this does not include careers in the arts. Some of these kids would love more art, music, sports, dance, or drama and they’re not getting it.

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  • Sylvain, I totally agree. I work in a school system with supposedly “disabled” students. I have read their IEP documents and I have spoken to the students and their parents. The IEP might say ADHD but doesn’t say anything about why the student has no interest in school. The IEP might say “refuses to participate” but that, too, is happening for a reason. I have noticed that these same supposedly ADHD students can concentrate just fine if the circumstances change, or the topic is to their interest.

    When I was a kid I had very little interest in studying anything but music. I even failed some classes. Now I realize that since I was very good at music, I ended up being one-sided in my interests. Music was fascinating to me and everything else was irrelevant.

    Sometimes kids act up due to bad experiences in the past or present, and this, too, is omitted from the “everything that’s wrong with me” IEP statement. I see this as doing the students a disservice.

    If a student is deaf, or needs help ambulating from class to class, that’s very different from perceived mental illness. If you are perceived as MI, then it’s those around you that see you as disabled who are causing the disability.

    There is another thing to consider. Money. Sometimes it is profitable to put a kid into the disabled category. Medicaid now picks up the tab, meaning that the schools can exploit the student as a funnel for Medicaid money all they want.

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  • Stephen, Workplace process groups are likely a good idea, because from my observation, almost all workplaces lack effective communication. I find it especially true that communication is shunned when it goes from the bottom up, that is, the lowest caste workers have very little say in the workplace rules and policies and how they are enforced. Communication from the top down is usually bossing around and that, too, is ineffective.

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  • I agree about group therapy. It is largely ineffective and mostly harmful. I was part of a day treatment program where the therapists were overly involved in the patients’ affairs. I believe this was the reason why one patient there committed suicide. I have written some funny pieces about Group Therapy that are in my book This Hunger Is Secret. There are several scenes in there. I also replicated Family Therapy, which in my opinion was the most comical chapter of the book.

    Group therapy is unnatural. Even now, I hate sitting in a circle. If I were teaching I would not demand this of the students.

    In Group, there was so much pressure to bear your soul to these folks, and if you did not, it was a disorder. Too much self-disclosure becomes a habit. I believe my group-induced “talent” for self-disclosure is what made me a better memoir writer. The downside of therapy is that you invariably become far too self-absorbed…which in turn, will worsen depression.

    All in all, it was a huge waste of time for me. I should have been in school or working. After all, isn’t showing up 99% of the battle? We showed up. We could have been doing something more fulfilling. Later, I was denied the privilege of the more meaningful groups and told I was only good for Bingo. This was so insulting to both my intellect and my emotional intelligence that I refused to go to groups.

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  • Only occasionally should it be medical, and then, it’s never a psych issue anyway. For instance, thyroid levels being off can mimic depression or bipolar. Anemia resembles depression. Malnutrition will appear to be an eating disorder or can even psychosis. Electrolyte imbalances or dehydration often appear to be psychosis. Psychs love to bring problems that aren’t their turf into their turf. If they had their way, they’d psychiatrize everything, including heart attacks, stroke, natural disasters, and this commonplace thing called a death in the family.

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  • I am seeing also that the message that one has to recover from psychiatry is not very clear in the article. Of all of life’s challenges, most of us have the hardest time recovering from drugging, labeling, incarceration, and marginalization. Many of us find these challenges to be much harder than whatever struggles we were having that brought us to the MH system. I, for one, am still struggling to get over it, and still have many fears that were caused by the system. Examples are fear of human touch, fear of the cops, fear anything medical, etc.

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  • Mental, After you are first tricked, it’s hard to make an informed decision. You may choose to go to a mental hospital for “help,” but after you’re there, and drugged, how on earth can you make a good decision for yourself?

    ECT, for instance, is rarely done by physical force. I have witnessed patients being told they’ll be refused all MH services if they do not comply with shock. I have also seen patients told they can leave sooner if they agree to shock. Meanwhile, we’re held there, drugged and brainwashed until we comply.

    After you walk in, you’re under their spell. After the first agreement, there is no valid agreement, since after the start of coercion or drugging, you lose you ability to choose responsibly.

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  • RW, I am glad you wrote this. A relative of mine alerted me to the New Yorker article. We both agreed that the article rambled too much. I found it confusing after a while, not knowing what the message was. Was it that mentally ill people, dangerous as we are, might be able to get off drugs at some point? Or was it that getting off drugs was tough but mentally ill people might be able to do it? Neither, to me, says what I’d like to have seen in the New Yorker. I agree that the main point was lost. I suspect this was an editorial move and not the doing of the writer.

    I have seen plenty of people reduce their drugs or even get off of them, but if they are still acting and thinking like mental patients, they are less likely to succeed. You can actually change the way you frame your life and that, to me, is the most important step.

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  • Kumin, What happened to your book? It sounds like there was some fiddling on the part of our adversaries into the distribution and marketing of your book, from what you are saying.

    I wrote a book as part of my masters degree program and it did not sell. Partly, this was because I do not know how to sell anything. I should have hired someone. The other part involved some interference by the adversary. They did everything imaginable to discredit me, wreck my reputation, and made selling the book next to impossible. I still have copies and there’s a copy available for download on my website. For free.

    As I approach the time when I will be publishing another book (I’ve written about ten), I plan to do a better job of marketing. My reputation has been partially restored. I am hoping I will not have as much angst over this book than I did with This Hunger Is Secret.

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  • Bloodletting is still practiced. Kidney dialysis is bloodletting. They gradually remove your blood, send it through a filter, then, put it back in, supposedly clear of the toxins your kidneys can’t get rid of. I keep thinking a transfusion might work just as well. I imagine very wealthy people opt for this, paying out of pocket. People with kidney disease typically are anemic and often the red blood cells swell in attempt to get oxygen.

    Dialysis is big business, a huge profit-maker for the dialysis companies. I believe it can be safely avoided by taking simple (not expensive) dietary measures. Kidneys normally are very good at eliminating toxic waste (by-products). When your kidneys don’t work well, toxins accumulate in the body. It is not that hard to follow a healthy diet, except it’s inconvenient sometimes to find something edible at a restaurant. Avoiding certain foods, you can be assured that the toxins (some from food, some created by food synthesis) don’t accumulate to begin with. These toxins include sodium, phosporus, calcium, and protein, and for many, also potassium, unless you took lithium, because many lithium survivors lose potassium and have to replenish it. Some people have to reduce fluids, but if you took lithium, chances are this restriction is also not applicable. There are herbs you can take that help, also, and a few vitamins. While creatinine is a by-product of exercise, in my the benefits of cardio-type exercise outweigh the risks. The increase in creatinine following exercise is temporary.

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  • Also, I should say that in theory, life coaches don’t push their ideas on their clients. This is very clear in the training. I’m sure many break this rule. You’re supposed to let the client figure out stuff herself, use her own morals, logic, intuition, etc, to form conclusions.

    Life coaches do not have to follow any laws, except they are mandatory reporters. I’m not sure if this is true in all states. Mandatory reporting laws vary from state to state.

    I recently called a life coach in another state and city (just to ask for info, not for life coaching) and found him to be an abusive bully. I wonder if he saw my scathing Yelp review?

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  • Actually, PacificDawn, what constitutes a “life coach” varies widely. There is no certification requirement. Many people set up businesses as life coaches with no formal training at all, and that is legal so long as you don’t lie about your credentials.

    It IS true that many life coaches won’t take on patients they perceive to be mentally ill. In fact, we were told to refuse services unless the person saw a psychiatrist concurrently. I found out that to see a life coach I would have to lie (by omission) my past diagnosis, which means I cannot discuss 35 years of my life, and omit any diagnoses I had been given. Many will also refuse unless you see a therapist. And some will even insist that you see a Western doc if you have any chronic disease at all. But life coaches vary and not all of them follow this.

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  • Varun, I was a college student also when I started therapy. This was during the summer. My choice to go outside the campus counseling center was driven by my desire for privacy. I was so scared that anyone might find out I was going to counseling. I was scared that someone might find out I had an eating disorder. I also personally knew the college counselor from another situation. So I chose to go to the local counseling center in town.

    This was one of the worst decisions of my life. Therapy caused me to become self-absorbed, thinking there MUST be something wrong with me, that is, fundamentally wrong with my character that caused me to have an eating disorder. What I did not realize was that the diet itself, that I had gotten out of a popular diet book, had caused the entire problem. People do not realize the serious consequences of drastic restrictive diets. You end up stuck in it, and further weight loss and low caloric intake only worsens a person’s distorted ideas about losing yet more weight. It is an endless cycle. A trap.

    I didn’t realize this, though. I wondered if a character flaw caused it. Those therapist said, “You have an eating disorder so you must have an enmeshed mother.” This was a stereotype they had back then, and it is so false in my case that it is laughable. Then they said, “You have an eating disorder because of perfectionism.” This, too, didn’t fit me at all. They even tried, “We can’t help you, so your eating disorder is trivial and you’re probably faking it.” I latched onto “chemical imbalance” because I wanted to find some cause of the ED. That must be it! Then, drugs might fix it, right? I started asking for drugs. They claimed I was nothing but a spoiled Jewish girl.

    They did indeed violate my confidentiality, and they also violated other patients’ confidentiality. I went to an emergency room on advice from my roommate. She had told me that “If you go to the ER then they will give you drugs. They HAVE to,” she said. I was hoping they would hear me, finally, and give me the magic pill that would stop my ED.

    Instead, those idiots called my parents and I had not authorized for them to do so. I was 25 years old at the time and not a minor.

    They never heard me. They continued to drug me and couldn’t figure out why I didn’t “respond.” They gave me more. They diagnosed me with schiz but I did not have any schiz characteristics such as the ability to hear voices. It was so unfounded….and I was stuck on disability payments for the next 35 years.

    I regret the decision to start therapy. I regret continuing the therapy and my own failure to recognize that it was addicting. I regret believing them and seeing them as authority figures for as long as i did. I was 23 when I started therapy. I was 56 when I finally left that world. I am 61 now, employed at last, and finally ending disability payments.

    It is so quick and easy to fall into that trap. It will take a long, long time to get out of it.

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  • An example of editorial middle-grounding can easily be seen in Psychology Today. Eric Maisel, who writes about children here for MIA, tells me he has to tone it down when writing for Psychology Today. Or…he is toned down by the editors there. If you meet him in person you get a different story entirely.

    As a writer, I sometimes call this kind of behavior prostitution, that is, sacrificing ones beliefs just to get published. However, I, too, am guilty of writing prostitution. Sometimes you will do anything to have your voice heard. Why? We have to decide. We have a need to say something, and sometimes, bowing down just a little bit is not that terrible a price to pay.

    I have to decide how much to bow down. While I would love to teach creative writing at a local college, I stopped my application when I saw the college’s horrible policies against gays. I then took pen to paper and wrote, right in the application, that I refused to continue due to their discriminatory policies. I am not sure if they read my half-finished application, but I got to say what I wanted to say.

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  • Thank you, Bruce, for this article. I also saw the New Yorker article on Laura and felt that something was missing. I also felt that the article was rambling and way, way too long. There was too much repetition and the article itself lacked a cohesive central theme. Still, it was great seeing Laura’s story in the major news media.

    I am wondering about your terminology regarding “middle grounders.” I am wondering if this constitutes a bit of classification and possibly, stereotyping this perceived classification. It’s like some who classify “liberals” or “conservatives” somehow as groups where all think alike. You can’t actually say that in all accuracy about us “fanatics” who understand the truth about psychiatry, and yet, we get lumped together by the media. We’re “mental illness deniers” or just plain lack insight. The truth is, though, we are not all alike. Our stories differ greatly, as do our opinions.

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  • I attended life coaching school. In that class we were told we should refuse to take on anyone we perceive as “mentally ill” and refer them to a psychiatrist. We were also told that if a person is diagnosed we have to make sure they “take their meds.” However, when I came out in class as a survivor, many approached me and said, in private, that they felt the DSM was hogwash, but they didn’t want to say anything. Our teacher even spoke of chemical imbalances! EEEKs!

    Interestingly, it was the classmate who drugs her kid who bullied me after class was all over. She was so unreasonable…I have to laugh…If the kid had her for mom, well…….

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  • Father John, you are totally awesome and I thank you a bunch for all you have done for us.

    Human behavior also is not rocket science. Anyone can have insight into it, including prisoners, janitors, cafeteria workers, students, and anyone who has contact with other humans. Children have amazing insight. There’s no need for a degree to understand lying, dishonesty, and corruption, and to recognize when a worker for the oppressors is breaking the rules, risking their jobs, and actually being kind. There were a few, but most said nothing and complied.

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  • And why should the person have a degree in psychology? We need more clergy writing in as this is an underrepresented population on MIA. We need more scientists from other sciences as well. The discussion in the article is about electricity. What does a psychologist know anything at all about electricity’s effect on the brain? If your loved one has been through ECT you know better than anyone else the effect of ECT on a person’s life, regardless of your profession. I agree with the author that those who have been through ECT may not immediately be aware of the damage. My boyfriend did not have a college degree and he had majored in business. He understood more than any of those idiots at the mental hospital that the ECT was damaging to me. I was even seeing an esteemed psychologist for “therapy.” She was totally uninterested in me and even nodded off during our sessions. She was one of the most clueless individuals involved in the whole fiasco. Since when are psychologists the experts on life? I really hope you reconsider your position, Oldhead. You know better than that!

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  • Thanks so much for this very logical explanation. None of these things are an opinion, they are facts. We can choose to refuse to believe the facts, or misinterpret them, as most, in fact, will do. We can choose to remember only what we want to remember. In the case of ECT survivors, often we cannot remember.

    I am going to share this article with a relative who is a physicist. Much thanks for this!

    Julie

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  • “Our culture would rather scapegoat angry people than deal with what they’re very often legitimately angry about.”

    What a breath of fresh air. I admit I have done my share of displaced blaming. But still, that doesn’t mean every single bit of blaming I’ve done has been transferred to the wrong party.

    I still DO blame Massachusetts General Hospital for willfully, deliberately, and cruelly depriving me of water. I blame them for failing to apologize when they had obviously harmed me. I blame them for denying that it was abuse. I blame them for not admitting fault when it was quite clear I had diabetes insipidus and what they had done could have killed me. I blame them for all their illegal attempts to silence me after it all happened. I blame them for trying to diagnose me with mania and paranoia to discredit me. I blame them for failure to recognize that I was enduring a traumatic reaction from water deprivation. I also blame them for spreading around lies to the general community that I am a dangerous person.

    I credit myself for getting away when I did. I blame myself for acting like a bitch at times and blowing my cool at people who didn’t do anything wrong, simply because I was experiencing traumatic memories. I regret the loss of friendships that happened during those years. Most will not respond when I try to contact them, so I am not able to apologize in a way that will be taken seriously.

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  • Kate, Using our words is about the most powerful thing we can do. I started writing most of my Yelp reviews when I was safely out of Massachusetts. I wrote so many that I moved up the Yelp ranks (I’m a premier Yelper or some such thing) because people liked my reviews so much. I have even been contacted by people who read my reviews. I have successfully turned people away from facilities that harmed me. People read what I have written and then are concerned that the same thing will happen to them. I so much feel the need to tell the truth, even if it is the bitter truth. It is my duty to warn other people so they won’t have to go through the same shit I went through.

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  • Kate, since that happened to me once for blowing the whistle, I am not surprised. One time I started noticing the minister at the church I was going to seemed be very bigoted and elitist. I wrote a complaint letter to a church higherup, that is, someone over his head. Next thing you know, the cops were coming knocking at my door. Believe it or not, they were accusing me of planning to kill the church minister.

    I was shocked. There’s nothing worse than being called dangerous when you are not. It was like they were afraid of me. They threatened me and demanded that I stop writing.

    I knew at that point I had to leave town, leave and go as far away as possible. I also knew I couldn’t tell anyone. Is another continent far away enough?

    Every day when I write, even as I write this, I am thankful that I got away from a place where I was threatened and told I wasn’t allowed to write. I guess whatever I wrote was powerful indeed. Maybe I should be proud of how scary I was, just by writing stuff.

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  • Kate, my experience was so similar to yours. My complaints about my eating disorder were misconstrued as, “You are just a spoiled Jewish girl, so…” When I had pimples from lithium they never informed me that pimples are a side effect. They claimed it was “poor self care.” When I broke my leg because Risperdal messed with my hormones, causing osteoporosis, it was “bad luck.” When Seroquel caused me to gain 100 pounds, I was the one who was too lazy to go to the gym. When Imipramine caused racing pulse, I was told it was “nothing” even though my pulse was never under 90. BP was raised on that drug, also, again, “nothing.” Imipramine caused agitation, again, “We don’t know, maybe you need more therapy.” When my feet and legs swelled up from kidney disease caused by lithium…oh no, that is poor self-care and likely from your eating disorder. One doc even said it wasn’t edema when it obviously was. When I started getting very painful muscle cramps in my toes, fingers, feet, etc, caused by kidney disease, it was “anxiety.” Really, it was impending kidney failure. When finally my kidneys outright failed, it was “suicidality” when in fact, it was from lithium all along. Trauma from hospital abuse was mistaken for paranoia and mania. Can they ever get anything right? Best to stay away!

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  • Rachel, DBT is a way of telling patients, mostly women, that they’re defective and need “therapy” to heal from something that the clinician is delusional about. Some doctors will label anyone that walks into their office as BPD. BPD is a way of discrediting you and permanently wrecking your reputation. It will work well if a person has been abused because then, the abuser is now safe because the woman’s accusation is nothing but a symptom.

    It worked very well for the doctors who knew that shock had harmed me. BPD silenced me and it was their excuse, ultimately, to threaten to put me in State. They HAD to do that to cover up ECT harm.

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  • Kindred, I agree totally about DBT being blameful toward the patient. I read the first few pages of the manual and did not go any further. First sentence: Life is hard. I’m fine with that. But then it went on to show two girls, one of them shown as a sicko, and the other one, non-sicko. So the manual said this is for you sicko folks. After reading that, I was so turned off I wouldn’t read anymore of that nonsense.

    I’ve been in DBT groups. The last one, everyone was fidgeting from their anti-d drugs. That was hard to endure, seeing everyone in that room fidgeting constantly. i kept wondering how the staff could stand it. Anyway, the concepts were so basic that I was surprised that most of the patients couldn’t understand them. I ended up feeling like I was leading the group explaining these things to them. I believed at the time that the drugs caused them to have cognitive difficulties. I can’t think of any reason why they seemed so slow-minded. I felt like I was back in grade school, but these were grown women, some well-educated, too. Many also played with stuffed animals…..

    I finally left the day program after three days, realizing it just wasn’t for me. Then, not much later, I found the Movement and I have not looked back. Sept 13 was my last psychiatrist appointment. She asked me five times if I felt like killing anyone, then she threatened me and said I had to take anti-p drugs and if I didn’t, she wouldn’t treat me. The answer? You guess.

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  • DBT is so invalidating. It is avoidant in its very nature. It is also silencing. Many of us were harmed and we’re supposed to “cope” with it now? No way! In other words, “We don’t want to hear your shit because we don’t want to take action to stop abuse. Here’s some therapy instead. You’re the sicko. The abuser is irrelevant now, part of the past.”

    DBT is perfect to let rapists and other abusers off the hook. “She was a sicko, right?” She was just imagining it all. Paranoid. Personality-disordered. They walk because of this nonsense.

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  • Rosalee, I also read that same book on trauma, or maybe a similar one. I agreed with much of it until I got to the part about trauma causing brain changes which are permanent that only a trauma therapist can heal. I cannot believe that these changes are permanent unless you make them permanent or sustain them by going to a mental health professional. Just getting away from the source of trauma is a start to healing, even though it is true that the worst of the traumatic reaction comes later on. It isn’t logical that going to a mental health professional is going to heal what mental health treatment caused. It makes so little sense…and yet people do this all the time, without even realizing it.

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  • Kate, Ditto to what Steve said. The MH system causes people to see themselves as losers. This is so hard to stop. You can’t just change out of loser mode instantly just because someone says so. In fact, telling people to change their thinking sometimes backfires.

    People can, though, change things bit by bit, in realistic-sized chunks. I think the idea of not using clinical language to describe ordinary experiences is likely a start for many people. However, you really have to distinguish between stuff that should be called by clinical language, and that which should not. Total abolition of clinical language just isn’t realistic. If I do not drink enough water I am going to be dehydrated, and that is an unarguable medical fact, not a feeling and not an opinion.

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  • Kate, you can contact me anytime. Reaching out to you. Find me on my blog, juliemadblogger.com. There is a Contact Me page there and I respond as soon as I see it. I was dxed BPD right after shock to excuse away the confusion from the shock. I was lucky that the dx was taken off later on, but years after that, my ex-friends distance-diagnosed me with BPD and somehow that got spread around. I also have “paranoia” on my social record, which caused me to lose all my friends. I have not really recovered from that.

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  • Dr. Moss, I agree with you on this one. While we already know these diagnoses are harmful, that is, our community here is very aware that a diagnosis will marginalize you, put you out of work, wreck your reputation, etc. As for drug harm, that’s publicly available knowledge also. There are varied reasons why people get into the rabbit hole of MH, often force or coercion or not knowing that it’s a rabbit hole.

    However, the question remains, why do people stay patients? Why do people stay even when, if they took a broader look at the situation, they see that MH world did not help, but actually caused deterioration. Why do so few doctors notice? Why do patients accept the deterioration instead of taking action?

    Those that are court-committed clearly do not want to take the drugs and often do not agree with the diagnosis. I’m certainly not referring to those who are in MH by force. Force wouldn’t be necessary if the patient can start identifying as a mental patient. Most of us did, sadly.

    When you identify as an MP without the use of force, or if force is only used occasionally, then the establishment has what it wants. Permanent patients.

    Therapists push this, many without realizing what they’re doing. Docs invariably do also. There’s a lot of peer pressure in the system to identify as an MP, and all this serves a purpose for the establishment.

    I believe it also serves a purpose for the patients. Many are terrified of being taken off disability payments because that means a major source of income will be cut off. Many are afraid to stop therapy for a variety of reasons. Many are also afraid to stop drugs, even if they suspect they might not even need them anymore.

    The System provides security for many. It’s a place to go. It’s where your friends are. It might even be where you have an identity or social role. Many patients still believe it’s helpful, even though they aren’t sure why and can’t seem to say exactly how it has improved their lives. They’re told it’s life-saving, and many still believe this.

    There are many redeeming factors about being a patient. That nice nurse or nice mental health worker. That one doc or therapist that you can spill your guts to. Therapy, which for many, feels good. But it’s all a trap. Every trap out there, including religious cults, has redeeming qualities, which is why we get sucked in in the first place, and often, why we can’t drag ourselves away.

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  • Both Sides, you gotta realize that most of us were deeply harmed either by individual carers or by institutions. Or both. I for one am proud to be opinionated and biased toward the underdog. After all, most of us weren’t even allowed to express our opinions. We were silenced or discredited. You don’t like it here on the ward? Don’t worry, it’s just a symptom of your paranoia. And so on.

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  • Exactly, Kindred. In a presentation I gave I likened diagnosis to a college major. We really did boast on the wards. It was a status symbol. Especially among the “almost dying” crowd. That can even win you brownie points. Or, it was like, “What are you in here for?” Like what crime did you do? Depression, bipolar, these were the sins we committed, just by being labeled, that got us in there.

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  • Daniel, I also had a negative experience with TELL. I know of another website that’s better. I also thought the TELL staff seemed to think that therapy abuse is rare and not only that, THEY own the market on it and it’s not possible, in their eyes, that anyone outside their private club has ever been abused by a therapist. Not only that, they recommended therapy to heal from therapy abuse! Makes no sense! They ended up being really rude and I gave up. No, they aren’t the only ones who have ever been abused. These are the kinds of stories that come out years, or even decades later. We’ll hear about it big time in 20 years when many of the victims and perps are already dead. Do we get an apology from the Vatican of Therapy? Do we get our day in court? Trauma IS damage, it can wreck your social life and even cause you to lose a job or lose your marriage. I had to recover from Maria and a few of the others. Not all were abusive. I had to get over therapy addiction, also. I found it was just as hard to leave an abusive therapist as it is to leave an abusive partnership.

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  • Daniel, I have had my share of that sort of therapist. Typically, the initial red flag MAY be that you start to feel like the “therapy” is life-saving. You might worship the therapist thinking he/she is the greatest, or the One and Only. The therapist perpetuates this (possibly without realizing it). You feel like the ONLY one you can possibly confide in is the therapist. Yes, it is a setup.

    Another red flag is that you seem to be on a roller-coaster, that, oddly, started when you started therapy with this therapist. Or you started having thoughts of suicide around that time that have ended up ongoing.

    You may observe favoritism. The therapist sees another patient four times a week, or insists on seeing you that many times, or keeps you late a lot.

    The therapist keeps changing the rules, adds extra contracts, etc. The therapist contacts you without your contacting her/him first.

    Threats. The therapist frequently threatens to drop you, or to have you hospitalized, or to send the police.

    Accusations. The therapist accuses you of things you hadn’t dreamed of doing. Overall distrustful relationship. Fear-based, frequently punishes the patient, sulks, goes into a huff or otherwise acts unprofessionally.

    Sexual advances, sexual remarks that are out of place, etc. Contacting your family or anyone in your life without your permission.

    Refuses to take your side in any conflict. Denies that another therapist or doctor harmed you, or denies that you were treated badly in a facility. Automatically sides with the clinician.

    Calls you psychotic repeatedly, claims you are paranoid when you are telling the truth, calls you dangerous when you aren’t. Jeering, eye-rolling, gaslighting.

    Physical abuse. Or denies that another person abused you when you are telling the truth.

    Bosses you around and runs your life. Threatens to have your kids taken away or other loss of rights. Character-bashing.

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  • Where is the research on what happens to a person after being given massive polydoses of antipsychotics? I was on 900 of Seroquel, 20 of Abilify, and 6 of Risperdal, simultaneously, and also concurrent with 600 of Lamictal, 300 of Topamax, and a third anticonvulsant, Trileptal. All at once.

    I believe I have permanent insomnia, eight years of resulting exhaustion now with no improvement, as a result of all those anti-p drugs. Nothing helps except to get my hands on some drugs, which gives me partial relief.

    I am scared to death to see a sleep doc because of their tendency to misdiagnose and worsen what is already a bad situation.

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  • Fred, it took me decades to admit it. It is also not easy to say I faked my way into hospitals because of the backlash I could get. However, people do not realize the real reason I did it. Every time I had trouble with my eating disorder (dieting cycle, really) I had to take action. I tried, multiple times, to get my therapists and psychs to listen. They never did, and apparently even those who had known me for years had no awareness that I had ED. I went 30 years like that. During that time, if the binge eating got out of control, I would say the word “death” in my session and that got my hospitalized. I now had temporary relief from bingeing. I dreaded leaving because I knew I’d be back at it again. I lied and said I was “suicidal” just to stay in there. Every time I left I felt disappointed, let down because they failed to hear me, failed to recognize what was really bothering me. I went back over and over due to the “unfinished business” feeling. It never worked.

    To most, I appeared “bipolar” but the truth is, if you’re so stuffed with food you can barely move, you’re going to be depressed. I was called “rapid cycling,” for obvious reasons. All those years I figured I must have a brain disorder causing the eating binges. I latched onto bipolar. It took me decades to figure out (on my own) that it wasn’t a brain disorder, that the erratic eating was affecting my moods, not the other way around. I had to realize that the diet had caused the ED. Starvation will affect you for years, changes the way insulin and other chemicals act in your body, and also can change your mentality and outlook. Repeated binge eating will cause you to have insulin spiking and this can go on and on. Breaking the cycle was essential for me (I knew this, but the psychs were just plain clueless!) and the only way I could do it, back then, was to get myself locked up.

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  • I would have made the exact same observations myself. I did see and know patients who begged for a diagnosis, loved being diagnosed and were happy to walk around practically boasting about it like it was their college major. Some were happy because that meant “there was a treatment,” in other words, they might get some drugs like Klonopin, which was always a bonus, like a lollipop for certain patients. Many really were drug-seeking. They even switched doctors when the first doc refused to give them Ativan or whatever they could fake it and get.

    When I got my diagnosis I kept asking myself how on earth I would live up to it. How was I going to be a convincing voice-hearer if I didn’t really hear voices? Should I lie? What if they ask me what they’re saying and I hadn’t a clue what voices say?

    One time I invented a delusion and I admit I wasn’t good at it. It didn’t pass inspection. It was far easier to act bipolar after they figured out I wasn’t schiz. But really, I was always disappointed at how poorly I fit their molds, any of them.

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  • My dad did work for NAMI as a monitor in the state institutions. He remarked that the people who worked in those places were extremely low paid. He noticed that they were not treated well, but of course, they got to leave at the end of the shift and the prisoners there had no rights and no pay. He also observed that there are some positions in health care that were about the only job that certain immigrant populations could get.

    I was abused by “sitters” while I was on a medical ward. I noticed that they, too, were treated badly. Not as badly as they treated me, but badly. Overall, immigrants get treated badly anyway.

    And I can give many examples. The way the doctors spoke of the sitters was pitiful. They were dismissive of them and verbally insulted them. To have to put up with that, day in and day out, would certainly wear on a person. If you refuse or speak out you can lose your job. It was a matter of an oppressed population beating on the one population less powerful, the patients. It happened a lot!

    One of them told me they had cornered her into working overtime. She was supposed to meet her kid at the school bus stop after school. The school had decided that if she did not show up they were calling DCF. Lose your job or lose your kids.. Either way, you lose.

    Most were unkind. They pushed their religion on me and called me names, verbally abused, physically abused, stared at me when I was changing, wouldn’t let me pee alone, jeered at me repeatedly, insisted on having the TV on all night long, and wouldn’t leave my side even though there wasn’t any evidence that I was at all at risk. I actually remember the “nice ones,” since they were a rare blessing. The resulting trauma affects my ability to be physically close with anyone. That includes sex or impending sex. I panic and exit. All from hospital abuse trauma. Never mind having a hard time getting along with people.

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  • I knew people who refused to talk to me, stating that I should only talk to a therapist. I other words, they were able to quickly excuse themselves by claiming they didn’t have expertise on the commonplace life issues I was experiencing. Why? I was a mental patient having these issues. Like regular ole stuff like isolation and loneliness were somehow different because I was an MP. So that, of course, was very isolating having been told over and over that I’m not worth listening to, that only a therapist could put up with me, etc. I’ve learned that this was just a way to get rid of me.

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  • Hello Jane, A big hug and…welcome! I’m so glad you wrote what you did. It very well could have been my story. After I stopped all psych treatment including therapy, I got better! Why is this story telling itself over and over and yet, mainstream media seems to ignore us. The usual story is that a person stops psych treatment and then, relapses. Now for some reason, that’s not the story! We are getting stronger and now we even have (sort of) a community of us.

    I am also from the Boston area and I was in the psych system 35 years. I’m 61 and got employed last year. I try not to look back too much. I was on “antipsychotics” and “mood stabilizers” which were to treat the Diagnosis of the Day, whatever they found most profitable, and sometimes, they chose the diagnoses that were best at silencing me. It did not work!

    It was the brainwashing that was most crucial for me to overcome. That and getting some friends in my life. It all comes back. Very slowly. Remember that, and never give up!

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  • I can give an example. I went to therapy asking for help for an eating disorder in 1981. They did not know what eating disorders were back then. They never heard me for the next 30 years of intensive therapy. One therapist after another after another…most of them never knew I had an ED even though I said it many times.

    I can’t count the number of diagnoses I ended up with, the cocktails, the lockup situations, the “programs” that promised to help and did not, and the shock treatments that nearly did me in.

    I suspect that the world of mental health is in such hopeless shape that what Eric is suggesting here is more or less a dream, not something that can possibly happen. I don’t think there’s hope for psychotherapy since most therapists worship the DSM and psychiatry. And they called all that “help.” It wasn’t.

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  • The best therapy I had ever heard of lasted one session. A guy I knew had been diagnosed with a hopeless condition called epilepsy. What was incorrect about the diagnosis was the permanence of his seizure condition. It is very common for teens to have seizures resulting from rapid hormonal changes. Without realizing that the epilepsy was temporary, he got a vasectomy, because he felt it would be irresponsible to pass along a disease to any offspring. Then he found out the truth: He did not have a seizure disorder anymore.

    The man became despondent over this. He bemoaned that he had destroyed his chances of having children. He even became suicidal. At this point, he decided to try therapy.

    The therapy lasted one session. The therapist told him that usually, vasectomies can be reversed. This bit of information-sharing was all the man needed, and thankfully, the therapist knew enough not to turn him into a permanent mental patient. The man had the necessary surgery, went on with his life, and was never suicidal after that.

    Unfortunately, this is not how it usually goes. People get addicted to the appointments and pampering, end up with the nasty habit of too much self-disclosure, become self-absorbed, and all this leads to chronicity. Therapy can be an awful crime, a terrible thing to do to a person.

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  • I don’t understand why so many people blindly obey orders even when the rules and policies are totally illogical. I know some do it out of fear, fear of being kicked out, or fear of unseen, unspecified punishment. Usually people obey simply because most of the others around them are also obeying.

    Many policies are based on distrust of the constituents to think for themselves. Then when those in power see that one or two do think for themselves, the original thinkers are banished or shamed.

    It is the way that people are. We saw it in the schools and in most workplaces. Half of the USA is dissatisfied with their jobs. The main reason people quit is not because they leave for better pay. They leave mostly due to ingratitude of the management.

    Most shocking is the blind obedience of many nurses and lower staff who obey orders knowing that what they are doing is inhumane. Some get a kick out of it. Others go along with it out of fear.

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  • If it’s something you heal from, then yes, you’re implying disease or disorder. I have seen those complaints about these so-called narcissists. The anti-narc community loves to separate the world into two halves, the Evil Narcs, and those that aren’t Narcs. They’ll even go so far as to say it’s contagious and that you have to stay away from them or you’ll “catch” it. This is demonizing people, othering them. It’s pretty easy to say, “He’s a narcissist,” spread that around, and then, the poor guy is alone and isolated. That ain’t healing.

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  • I find it very sad that anyone would call another human being “toxic.” Where is the poison? Where is the radiation or dangerous germs? I would never call another human being “toxic” since that is really a euphemism for mentally ill or personality disordered. By all means there are toxic workplaces and toxic social situations, but no human being is toxic. It is a pseudo-diagnosis. What is behind it? It is a declaration of that person’s inferiority, and denial of their human worthiness. Why claim that a person is diseased? It’s really okay not to like another person, or to fail to understand that person. Why can’t we leave it at that, rather than excuse our dislike by calling the disliked person “toxic”? We may not feel comfortable with our own feelings, or our lack of empathy, but just leave it at that without claiming the person is diseased.

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  • I am pretty sure I am an anarchist, too, now that I have read your book and got some clarification on what anarchy is. This is why employment (working for boss) never appealed to me. I like having the money but it wears on you if you don’t have the opportunity to use your mind. Very few jobs require the intellect that college required. Some don’t want to hire anyone who actually thinks for themselves. They prefer blind obedience. I do not fit in at all. They liked me at that last job but they kept badgering me to obey, even when obeying meant doing things that were illogical.

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  • I was a member of a supposedly “liberal” church that claimed to be welcoming, but that turned out to be hypocrisy. They didn’t include anyone they did not like, and this meant pushing out the poor, being unwelcoming to black people and immigrants, and of course, anyone deemed to be nutso they felt too embarrassed to include.

    A lot of groups that claim to be liberal are just hypocrites. They include only those they want to include. Snobbery prevails. The elite left, let’s say. The elite right, too.

    Oh, shall I say the Elite Antipsych community, too? Elitism is rampant.

    I am enjoying your book so much, Bruce. I even quit my job, sick of being bossed around by a 21-year-old. Time for a change.

    Even at my other job, the one I like, I hate the useless rules. I think rules are designed for those who refuse to think for themselves. They need slogans to help them make decisions that the rest of us can make just as well using common sense. Today I told my supervisor that I refuse to follow a protocol if it doesn’t apply or if it’s illogical.

    In 2011, nurses and doctors followed a protocol, water restriction, that nearly killed me. They could have done the logical thing and considered I am a lithium survivor. They did not, because they were too obedient to make a responsible, humane decision.

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  • It’s about time MIA talked about antisemitism since it is rampant and has affected many of us. When I was a kid I heard it all the time. I was the bad one who had killed their Jesus. It was all the fault of the Jews. We were sinners who didn’t have Santa Claus. We didn’t have Easter baskets and we sang gibberish every Saturday (wrong day, they said) at Shul. We were outsiders who had to go to Hebrew school and miss all the fun.

    Yes, I got over it. I don’t see it as a major trauma in my life.

    I can guarantee, if your son ever gets into the Mental Health System, he’ll see worse antisemitism than he ever got at school. I had them calling me spoiled, a Jewish American Princess, and for years they criticized my “typical Jewish upbringing.” They said my mother had a “Jewish mother complex.” All baloney.

    What was my childhood really like? My parents took us into the mountains, taught us how to find the constellations and find our way by the angle of the sun or moon. They taught us how to navigate in the woods, even if there wasn’t a trail. We learned to cook over a campfire or a camping stove, to canoe on rivers and to ski in the coldest of the winter. My mom recycled long before any other mom did. She knew that sugar was bad for you well before Sugar Blues came out. She loved to challenge me to a fun game of Guess That Composer. I admit occasionally she won, especially when it came to discerning those Italian composers whose names all ended in ini.

    Dad taught me good judgement and good morals. He taught me that doing what is right is more important than doing what you are told. He knew this because he remembered the Holocaust. We were told we could not ever forget it, though we did not directly discuss it much.

    Most important, my parents believed in me. Keep on having faith in your children even if you disagree, even if you think you know better. You very well likely do, but let them learn. Encourage independent thought and let them know they can think anything, that no one should force or coerce them to believe things that they do not want to believe. This is one of the core Jewish beliefs that I still cling to, Freedom of Thought. Let them teach themselves to make it in the world. They will.

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  • As an example of the above, I have known people to read articles about “highly sensitive people.” This is a pseudodiagnosis, and it has harmed many people. As soon as they latch onto the self-diagnosis of this deficiency, “highly sensitive,” suddenly, the looping effect takes hold and they will become the diagnosis. This is a terrible trap. I know people who latched onto that diagnosis and now have social problems, difficulty maintaining friendships, and even have trouble keeping a job. I have no clue how to tell a person to stop this self-diagnosis, that the very idea of that something is terribly wrong with them is poisoning their minds.

    There is no such thing as “highly sensitive.” Some people are more prone to be observant of certain details. Others observe and remember totally different details. I notice workplace unfairness a lot sooner than others. I am the first to complain, often the only one who dares to say anything.

    Understandably, I am bothered when I have to take a call at work and I hear the caller being prompted by another person in the room. One time, I took a call from a guy who was clearly being abused by his girlfriend. He told me his girlfriend found out that he had purchased our product and now, he said, she was making him close the account with us. He said he regretted it. Knowing she could not hear me, I told him, “You can always sign up again, don’t worry.” Meanwhile, she continued to yell at him and cuss him out in the background.

    Afterward, I approached my supervisor and really, I wish now that I hadn’t. I was shocked at her lack of human compassion and lack of understanding of the significance of the event. She was condescending and told me to “get back to work.”

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  • One of the best therapists I have ever seen I saw over Skype. After I told her what happened to me she looked at me and said, “You don’t need a therapist. You need a lawyer.”

    What we need are people, degreed or not, who can point out exactly why and how “therapy” violates people rights. We need people to steer others, by example, away from therapy. We need role models who can illustrate that “problems” can be solved without aid of the mental health profession.

    Some of us need validation, just someone to listen and agree, “Yes, that therapist broke the law and broke all ethics to which they were bound as therapists.”

    Decades ago, say, in the 1960s, therapy was not very popular. Why? Because rigorous self-examination was not popular. People did not worry about every little thing that was wrong with them.

    As soon as you point out a person’s intrinsic deficiencies, or what you see are deficiencies, it sets a person down a very bad rabbit hole that’s hard to get out of. Sadly, all you need to do is to suggest a deficiency for the person to go into a tailspin.

    Yesterday I was on the phone with a guy, a free “business coach” session. I told him I’d like to have a more meaningful job, but I can’t seem to get hired at one. This guy knew nothing of my background and I didn’t tell him I spent 35 years as “disabled, severely mentally ill.” Knowing nothing about how far I have come (including currently dealing with a terminal illness), he ended up telling me I was “pessimistic” which, sadly, got me started on thinking I had a deficiency. Good thing I know better than to dwell on it or worry about it. If I was that flawed, I’d be miserable, and I’m certainly not.

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  • Regarding “fast metabolizer,” I have reason to believe this may have been why I ended up on gigantic cocktails. I have diabetes insipidus, which was from lithium. This means I metabolize water much faster than the average human. We used to talk about this way back when. People were saying they were “washing out their meds,” which was likely partially true. If the drug is metabolized in the kidneys and has certain other properties, you will literally wash it out of your body due to high water consumption.

    Diabetes insipidus can be treated with drugs. They usually use a potassium-sparing diuretic, which acts paradoxically and helps you retain water so you’re not so thirsty. This isn’t a good thing for your kidneys, as these diuretics will speed up kidney decay. I was never treated for DI because it took those idiot doctors nearly three decades to diagnose me. This is insane because it’s very easy to diagnose. I am realizing also that high water metabolism is likely keeping me alive right now. I do not need, or want, “help,” because they help will harm.

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  • Actually, Jan, we live in different countries so maybe the situation is different. People have to get by somehow on the unlivable “disability” income. Most of them are working and not telling the government. You get in a lot of trouble if you’re caught. My friend who had her own very successful business decided to claim “depression” as disability but kept the business going. She put the business in a family member’s name. Not legal but people have to get by and they do what they can. Many I know on disability also get money from their families, but in the US it has to be done in cash. You can’t have a penny going through your bank account. My friend ended up so broke she had to cheat on her taxes.

    There are also people who end up with an enormous amount of money from these side-jobs. There was a big news story about a local fortune-teller who made huge amounts of money but something wasn’t legal about it (can’t recall) so she got caught. I believe that happened when the justice system got wind of her activities and they had an undercover cop pose as a customer.

    I know a lady who sells her own specialty laundry soap and she has made good money doing this. My coworker sells veggies from her garden. I have a neighbor who has a tiny garden where he raises these amazing flowers. He regularly cuts them down and gives them away. He gave me some and I was so touched by this I almost cried. Home chicken coops are very popular here, even in the city, though you’d need a lot of laying chickens to make anything substantial.

    I suck so badly at selling anything at all. However, I’ve made a point of studying how to sell. (What is a job interview but advertising and selling yourself, and of course, lying a little….) I hope to get skilled enough at it to get my book to sell, which I hope will be this year. I’ve also studied how to delegate “nuisance” tasks. It’s a win-win because whoever you hire can use you as a reference, you pay them, the job gets done. You save time and they get a another sale to add to their accomplishments. That, in fact, is community.

    I couldn’t possibly do this if I was still in the System. MH is a fail-fail situation all around. You won’t live well if you’re living as an inferior, subhuman creature. You’ll be lucky if you’re still alive after they get through with you.

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  • Melody,
    I also live in Western PA. Yes, it is big state so just saying “Western PA” could be anywhere from Erie to Greene County. I would like to meet you if possible or connect somehow. We need some activism around here! I can’t seem to find your website. Those brain zaps sound awful. I never had them and never knew much about them. Maybe they mainly come from antidepressants? I was coerced onto anti-p drugs and mood non-stabilizers for decades, and my kidneys and thyroid were harmed from lithium.

    Julie

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  • I agree, Kindred, but for the most part people who have been in the System are told they cannot work or are in some way incapable. Most of us have has been brainwashed to believe we are less capable than we really are. In fact I do not know a single person who was treated in the System with expectations that were too high. Whatever capabilities you had were treated a symptoms of a disease, so they weren’t capabilities anymore. Some of our capabilities were a threat to them. God forbid, an artist might capture the scenes in mental hospital. A writer will write about what it was really like. Were in in law school? Well? What were we good at now? Being good in “group”? ugh.

    Because we were brainwashed to be more dependent than we needed to be, I generally stress trying to reach a point of increased independence, especially dependence on psychiatrists and therapists, or at least stop seeing them as gods on high.

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  • People do not realize that HUD and all the handouts are not a free ticket. In order to qualify for HUD your income is already so low you cannot afford a decent place, or any place. Once you get in your chances of ever moving out are very little. You will not be able to “transfer” to another HUD if the one you are in sucks. They put you through the worst hoops if you want to do that. You have to apply, and then wait and wait. Unless you have a Section 8 certificate you can’t relocate. Ever.

    Living conditions…well, if you are in senior housing you might like a nursing home more. I hated senior housing! I hated living with people I had nothing in common with. It felt very institutional.

    The handouts cause dependency. I heard that fewer than 0.5% ever get off disability. If you are on disability your chances of a landlord accepting you are next to nil. I had to lie and say it was “retirement.” It worked!!! But that won’t work unless you are over 50. Once you get a good history with one landlord then moving to a better place will be much easier, since you are not reporting to the landlord that you currently live in HUD. If you work locally and tell your employer your address you will be giving yourself away…and your chances of getting a job, again, are fewer.

    Some people do manage to sell on Ebay or Etsy. I knew a guy who cut hair on the side. Massage is not hard to learn. Getting paid gigs as a musician (weddings, etc). Sewing clothes, selling your art (photography is likely the one visual art that could be very profitable) or selling your psych drugs. Fortune-telling (i.e. “readings,”) if you can convince other that this is valid, will be instant money. All of this must be done illegally, that is, without reporting to the gov’t, or you are screwed unless your business is pulling in enough to live on. That is, if they find out you’ve been doing what you must do to survive, you’re a criminal.

    The key is to get out. Get away from mental health social circles and quit the mentality of dependency. Do not use the System’s language. These are the hardest things for many of us. Learned dependency takes years to shake off.

    This is weird…I feel that I have ditched the mentality well enough. One day, roughly a month ago, I came home to find my keys were not in my pocket. For a split second I was transformed back into a dependent mental patient. I was suddenly thinking of “staff” that would somehow rescue me. Or a therapist who was that instant paid friend. I’m so glad that sudden flashback to the old days only lasted a second until I realized my keys were in my other pocket.

    I believe this will happen again if I am ever in a really scary situation. It would have to be extreme though. Like if I was hit by a car or beat up.

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  • Kindred, the naturopaths that I know are far removed from all this. You have to have a certain amount of self-preservation around these Western medicine folks. Yes I still flinch when I have to walk past an urgent care center and every time I thank my lucky stars that I am walking past….as fast as I can!

    I agree, they actually justify the HIPAA violations. I did call a hospital once to point out the HIPAA violation they did and they apologized. That happened at the surgical center when I had my eyes done. They said some stuff to me when the guy giving me a ride home was in the room. An apology was enough. Plenty enough. They admitted fault and said they would be more careful next time.

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  • Oh sorry that I wasn’t clear. Do not go to doctors that take insurance. I also went to Urgent Care one time and I knew that they’d find out that I was on Medicare at the time. I left the ER AMA when I realized they weren’t going to do anything good for me medically.

    There are plenty of naturopaths that you can find if you look for them. Not ones hired by hospitals! Ones that work entirely independently. No real naturopath will go along with the insurance system. Contact me if you want the names of a few. There’s no reason to see a Western doc if you do your own research, including reading what various naturopaths have to say. You choose! This, by the way, is why I’m alive and not dead. I make my own choices, allow myself room for error, adjust when necessary, and lo and behold, I’m far more healthy and energetic than I was the entire time I was in the MH system. Even with kidneys that don’t really work.

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  • Wow. Just wow, KS. I think you are right. I personally do not see doctors for anything. I had my eyes fixed because I had to. Yes they had some old info. They knew I had kidney disease. They didn’t access my old Boston records and now it’s been so long (six years since last shrink visit) that I doubt they will. They had access to ophthamology records from 2016.

    This is what I do, and I recommend it to anyone. Do not use insurance! As KS said, do not see a doctor unless you get shot or hit by a car. I do get blood tests but I pay out of pocket for them and I don’t go to a doctor to get them prescribed. The results are not shared. They might send an email telling me my levels are off, but that is it. Like I don’t know this already!

    Most naturopaths will not share with your doctor, but beware of the ones that insist on it. They aren’t real naturopaths! Any alternative practitioner may advise but you aren’t obliged to take that advice. That is the beauty of it. You decide, and you take responsibility for your own decisions.

    Read up on stuff on your own. Take everything with a grain of salt. Ask yourself if what you are reading is logical. If it sounds like a scam, it likely is.

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  • Unfortunately you usually can’t tell much from a website. Looks like the person with username ILNC has now decided to bow out. I do not understand why he came here. This is a website that, I hope, does not validate any mental health “treatment,” and certainly would not endorse any treatment. Unfortunately, since a lot of so-called professionals want to get in on the act (after all, MIA loves to publish people with letters after their names!) then what has happened is that some professionals get to push their services, programs, etc, and I don’t even need to name names here. I just keep wondering why. We’re not going back. And that’s the whole point of all this. Never again.

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  • So, ILNC, what is your organization? Are you going to be transparent about that? Interestingly, Massachusetts General Hospital has the best of the best reputations, yet while I was there I was deprived of water to the point where I would have died if I had not gotten out of there. Mass General runs McLean, which is a cesspool of bad care. Also, my highly esteemed MGH psychiatrist threatened to drug me until I could not write, telling me that her MGH administrators wanted to silence me. If MGH was so great, why didn’t they inform me that I my kidneys were failing from lithium? Why did they keep me in the dark when warning me might have saved me a lot of grief? Great reputation, sure. They manipulate the statistics in their favor, just like all of them. (It’s really easy to classify a wrongful death as something else, you know…)

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  • Michael, I have a masters degree in creative writing with a concentration in memoir. You cannot just toss out stories told by people who are really there. To me, these stories mean far more than any statistics compiled by someone who was never on the treatment end of things there. I’m not saying the place is good or bad. I think MIA as a whole cares far too much about statistics and does not value stories enough. Storytelling is how we move people, how we reach them and evoke emotion and perhaps also inspire to action.

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  • Yes, KS, I too have met very cruel nurses. Many were just plain incompetent. I remember ages ago helping the nursing staff write notes with proper grammar. Some did not know how to spell the simplest words. Even words like schizophrenia. They couldn’t spell it. You wonder about the quality of care in such circumstances. Yes, they can do stuff like take blood pressure, but many weren’t too good at critical thinking. Or they didn’t even know what critical thinking was. We were the ones who with the broken brains, remember?

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  • Bruce, I am loving your book! I wanted to tell you that. I have reviewed it on Amazon (posted as JG) and I’m not even done with it. I also wanted to write a review of it for MIA but who knows if they’ll let me.

    Anyway, I have to laugh. I started a new position. At work we only have bits and pieces of downtime, during which the workers either chat with each other or, oddly enough, play with children’s fidget toys. I decided I was not going to waste my mind. I would sit there and write but that is not allowed. I brought a hard copy book with me but the boss said I can’t read during work, with the exception of their stuff, which is kept in a looseleaf notebook at my desk. Rules rules rules!

    I am sure you will not mind my creative solution to the dilemma. I have the Kindle copy of your book. I managed to print out a bunch of pages. I brought those pages to work and when the supervisor wasn’t around, stuck the pages into the notebook. Now, while I might appear to be studying that darned notebook an awful lot, I’m actually getting my Bruce Levine fix!

    I have challenged authority for as long as I can remember. I remember being in a playpen and when my parents weren’t looking I ripped a hole in the playpen mattress. I “decorated” my furniture with blue crayon during nap time. My mom left the room while she was cutting my hair. Oh how fun it was to snip snip snip! My mom had to take me to a professional hairdresser to fix the mess.

    I have challenged what I felt was illegitimate authority here at MIA (favoritism) and also when I was on the ISEPP mailing list (failure to acknowledge the harms of “therapy”).

    All my life I have been shocked and disappointed in my fellow humans who insist on not saying speaking up, even when they’ve known something was immoral. However, it took me decades before I ended up speaking up at the hospitals about the obvious wrongs. Again, I was shocked and disappointed that my fellow patients didn’t just insist on remaining silent, but they turned against me. They called me psychotic even.

    For instance, when I spoke up about the lack of telephone privacy on an eating disorders ward, I got the following responses from my fellow patients: “But we don’t have human rights.” “But you have to follow what the staff say.” “Who cares if they aren’t following the law. None of the hospitals do!”

    These are all logical fallacies.

    The “staff” were far worse. They said the human rights laws that I pointed out did not exist. I pointed out that there was a private phone in one of the rooms that they commonly called “The Yellow Room.” I asked to use the phone in the Yellow Room and they told me “We don’t have a yellow room!” insisting I was psychotic. Then, when I showed them the policies that were in the way, way back of the patient handbook, they had to take a different tactic. One of the nurses said, “These human rights are only for some patients, not for all. We will let you have your way. But you’d better stay quiet about it.” Finally, I said that patient rights laws applied to all patients, not just the “good” ones.

    I had a home inspection a while back as my rental home was being sold. A couple of local cops showed up. It felt like a home invasion. Their report was full of exaggeration and disdain for the way I choose to live. It’s my choice, and my right, not to have fancy furniture! It isn’t messy in here but one or two empty boxes lying around constituted “trash strewn all over the home.” Not quite! I got a letter from the rental people saying the inspectors are coming back in 30 days and the place better be cleaned up. They never came.

    I have been inspired by your book, Bruce. If they ever contact me to tell me the inspectors are showing up, I’m going to ask them to show up in plain clothes, not uniforms. If they show me their badges I will tell them I do not need to see proof of their elevated social status. They’re not arresting me, for godsakes!

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  • So, being victim to racism is the new disease? Huh?

    So one day, in my neighborhood, my friends informed me about Santa Claus. We were barely out of toddlerhood. I went back and asked my mom about that. She explained that we do not have Santa because we were Jews.

    Was I suffering from Santa deficiency? What is the therapy for that? Is the world of psych, psychology and psychiatry arm in arm, insistent that they’re the ones to go saving everyone, now going to make me role-play with a stuffed Rudolf?

    Why should being who I am, including my heritage, be a disorder? This type of therapy seems to reinforce this, encouraging minorities to go right down the rabbit hole.

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  • Equally hurtful is accusing parents of abuse based on no evidence except projection on the part of the “clinician.” We already know that people who are less well off or are of a minority group are more frequently victims of this. Immigrants also get accused disproportionately. If you have MI on record you’re more likely to have your kids taken away.

    I’ll never forget the antisemitic remarks those damn doctors continued to heap on my family. If I were to smack them 100 times for each time they said “Jewish mother” I think my hands would fall off before I was done.

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  • Of course there’s such thing as repressed memories. There is a real danger, though, when you go to a therapist who supposedly extracts those memories. Therapists are full of biases and they’ve got their own agenda. I’ve known a few who were child-abused themselves so they project this onto all their patients. It is really a dangerous thing to do. I credit therapy for splitting up my family for a number of years. Thankfully the effect wasn’t permanent.

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  • Shift of consciousness may, or may not, change how you view reality, but I don’t think it does a thing to influence anything except our own actions, thoughts, beliefs. I don’t think an attitude change or “shift of consciousness” (the same thing!) are going to change the actions of others. Actually, to do so, if it were possible, would be a freakish act of control.

    If a woman is being beaten or abused by her husband, she can do all she wants with her attitude but that isn’t going to change him. Why? Because if this were true then he would be beating her not because he’s being cruel but due to her supposed “attitude.” Obviously this is a very blameful approach to take.

    She might, though, read a cool book, or meet a new group of friends who influence her to have the courage to walk out. Here, her attitude change didn’t stop him or change him, but gave her the courage to leave.

    On the other hand, lack of her own money is going to be one of those huge roadblocks to a successful exodus, one that can’t be produced by an attitude, or wishful thinking. Maybe luck will work better.

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  • Sam, I truly believe that false memories can indeed be induced, and often, induced by therapy. It’s not hard to do this, as a mere suggestion can alter one’s thinking about a past event and can cause a person to re-frame that event in a negative or positive way. Either of these can be harmful.

    For instance, if a child is abused by his/her parents, a suggestive remark by a therapist might cause the now-grown child to believe that their parents were “doing what was in their best interest,” even though it very well may not have been.

    In the other direction, I have seen therapists re-frame non-traumatic events as traumatic, in order to point out parental harm that didn’t even exist. I witnessed one patient who was told repeatedly that there was something terribly wrong with his upbringing, and yet, the events that this patient later told me about were not incidents of child abuse or neglect. The patient rejected therapy early on, thankfully.

    I cannot tell you how often culture played a part in this. My Jewish upbringing was constantly called a dysfunction by the therapists. I didn’t know whom to blame for my supposed mental illness so I ended up thinking my parents were bad parents. To fill in the void that resulted because I couldn’t actually recall any specific events, I filled in the blanks with false memories. Vague ones, but the harm was done, sad to say. It takes years or even decades to undo this.

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  • Anything at all can be a tool. If you call it that or recognize that you’re using it that way. I had friends back in the day who went to psychs solely to serve their addiction to the pills. The idea was to go to a shrink to get your fix, whether it was anti-d’s, anti-p’s or of course, benzos. Only they didn’t use the word “fix.” They would go and plead their cases, claiming just how “anxious” they were, and would leave with their next month’s worth of hits. They got mad when the shrink wouldn’t be their dealer, claiming the shrink didn’t understand or wasn’t “doing anything” to help them. They never realized that addiction and dependency on the pills was the cause.

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  • Here is my favorite line: “The beautiful thing about psychiatry’s pronouncements is that no one can ever prove them wrong.”

    This is very true, not only of diagnosers, but of lay people also. If another person views you as psychotic, personality-disordered, or otherwise MI, you don’t stand a chance, and you can never prove them wrong. I have tried to point this out to Governor Wolf (Pennsylvania) because of this new proposed legislation on gun control. The first two parts are fine but they also want to label people as “extreme risk” and then treat them with force, the object being to remove all weapons from them. I have pointed out to him that to be thus labeled wrecks a person’s life. And what if the “extreme risk” determination is incorrect? Now what?

    He and the other legislators proposed that if a person contests the “extreme risk” diagnosis, they should present their case in court. I told Gov Wolf that this won’t work, as insanity, once proclaimed, cannot be disproved. I think this was determined by the field of philosophy and logic quite some time ago.

    For this reason, I recommend that if you are seen as dangerous by a set group of people you should remove yourself from that situation ASAP and start over where they don’t know you. And then, just act responsible and people will never know about your misfortunes of the past.

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  • All this data-collecting must have been a huge effort. But you didn’t answer the most basic question. What is it like there?

    You can collect all the data you want on “outcome” on places like McLean but that won’t tell you the food is inedible, the staff are mostly incompetent and poorly trained, and the place is filthy. The units are locked and they coerce or force you into accepting “treatment” you otherwise would reject.

    So the desired result? The patients are a lot quieter, aren’t they? What is the word used? Docile? The study even says so! Must be the best place on earth….

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  • Stephen did you ever take lithium? That WILL cause what you are experiencing. It can happen long after you are not taking the drug anymore. Even decades later, people’s kidneys fail. Muscle cramping (Charlie horses in any muscle including toes and fingers) are a sign that you could be headed for trouble. Get a renal panel done and READ IT, ask about creatinine level specifically. Oh, read my upcoming book, too. I talk a lot about that, discuss potassium at length.

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  • My degree in Creative Writing never got me a U job. I don’t even begin to fit the qualifications. They want a full work history, including teaching career, and list of publications.

    I have written ten books, published two of them. The second barely sold any copies in four years due to unfriending over psych abuse. I couldn’t twist arms anymore so I took it off the market and now give it away for free.

    I even find it hard to get a speaking engagement. They want fingerprints practically. I can’t even get an offer to do a reading, even though I have tried. The best I can get is to sit at a desk selling hard copies of my book at a bookstore. I didn’t want to do that. I did not want the embarrassment of leaving with a the same full stack of books I arrived with.

    You really have to sell yourself. I don’t like doing that. I’m finishing up a book right now and to ensure sales and availability to all I am selling it for a dollar a copy.

    Some of my fellow grads are saying the exact same thing. Book didn’t sell, couldn’t get a job, etc. Many went back to their former careers. I didn’t have a former career to return to so I ended up staying poor and got poorer.

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  • I do have some lithium orotate at home. I tried a very low dose of it for insomnia. It didn’t work, had no effect on sleep so I have not taken it since. I can’t believe anyone would recommend 60 whopping mgs of that stuff, either. I think anything more than 10mgs a day is unsafe for the kidneys. For some, such as elderly, people already damaged by lithium, or anyone with a physical health condition should take less than 10. Yes it is available in some drugstores, online vitamin suppliers, and in some health food stores.

    Just because it is a supplement does not mean it’s safe. As another example of a widely-distributed supplement is potassium ascorbate. This comes in 99mg size tablets and can be found in any drugstore. However, it is soooooo easy to overdose on potassium and then end up in the ER with a heart attack. For some people, though, they lose potassium or their levels are low, so for that population, potassium supplementation is medically necessary.

    I DO lose potassium due to damage from pharmaceuticals, but an entire pill of that stuff is too much for me. I rarely take it, but if I do I have to cut the pills in half.

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  • I also wonder about people who comment on here constantly. I wonder if they have lives outside of MIA. I wonder if maybe they need to gain some perspective on this. MIA is only a website. It may be a social hub, but folks on here aren’t real friends, they are people in cyberspace you interact with via cyberspace only (for the most part).

    I would encourage anyone to go out into your community. Talk to real people in real-life conversations, pick up the phone, and get a life outside of fake socializing.

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  • Sera you are far more likely to get your story into the media than most of us are.

    If you are going to use your own story as illustration, as you did in the workshop, I’d suggest putting it in third person: “This happened to someone I know.” Don’t say it was you. Just for future reference.

    In a recent job interview I was asked if I ever had a conflict with a coworker. I haven’t. I did have a conflict with a supervisor. She had deliberately picked on me and did what might qualify as workplace bullying. Instead of saying that happened to me, which would have made me look bad in the job interview, I stated that I witnessed her doing unethical things including belittling another worker. Here, of course, I put it in third person.

    All of life IS like a job interview. People constantly criticize and constantly seek out ways that we are faulty, abnormal, or diseased. We are all actors. We play roles, some of us many roles. Acting is lying, whether we realize it or are simply fooling ourselves.

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  • Screen time means different things. Blind people and people with other disabilities use so-called “screen time” to access assistive technology. Many kinds of assistive technology help folks who are disabled work their jobs and do other necessary things to sustain themselves.

    When I had cataracts I could not read a print book. The entire time I continued to read and write by using a screen. I enlarged the print and used color reversal. If I really believed “screen time” was harmful, I would have stopped reading and writing.

    Right now, in my work, I spend all day in front a “screen.” I have had no harmful effects. Why? I do not watch TV, I do not play video games, and I do not participate in fake socializing such as Facebook.

    I do believe that violent video games, television, and fake socializing are all very harmful to children and to just about anyone. Television is extremely violent, even the commercials involve violence. TV is noise pollution which harms our well-being. TV also involves a flickering screen (you won’t notice this unless you stop watching it for a while). The flickering light that constantly bombards people likely induces seizures and behavior problems.

    I do not have kids. If I did, I would raise them without a TV in the home. I would certainly not ban “screen time.” I would encourage my kid to learn to use various computer applications, to learn to type, and to learn to read the news with skepticism. I would teach my kid to question what they are told instead of blindly accepting it. I would also encourage time spent outdoors and encourage enjoyment of physical exercise.

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  • Getting more and more people to realize the truth will lead to fewer people acting as profit-generating “patients.” Without clientele psych will fail. In the process, while we warn others we need to make it very clear that this is a bogus science that doesn’t act in the best interest of the patient, but in their own best interest, and in the interest of the DSM, the drug companies, the medical device companies, and from the looks of it, the government also.

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  • Stephen, my guess is that your doc located old records. This will happen if the doc is affiliated with a hospital you were in, or any hospital connected to that one. Nowadays large hospitals are expanding and buying up smaller ones. This means increased record-sharing between these sister institutions. In order to escape you need to stop going to any doc or institution within that range of communication.

    Here’s an example: I could have relocated from Boston to Western Massachusetts, where I once lived, and been relatively safe. However, instinct told me not to move there. Shortly after I made this decision, Massachusetts General Hospital expanded into Western MA. So now, anyone affiliated with Cooley Dickinson hospital in Western MA would have access to my Boston records. Some of these huge hospitals expand into other states, usually adjacent states. For instance, the UPMC empire, which is centered in Pittsburgh, purchased most of the Pittsburgh hospitals and expanded not only outside the county but into neighboring Ohio.

    I know very few people who managed to escape the clutches of psychiatry without relocation. A lot depends on local laws and what the institutions can get away with. Years ago, you could simply go to another doctor across town but this is no longer a safe option. They WILL share. Count on it.

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  • I do not say “I overcame MI.’ That is not even accurate. I never fit their description of an MI person and was never disabled. What I did have to overcome was what psychiatry caused. Trauma, kidney disease, and low expectations of myself. All those were treatment-induced.

    I did have to “overcome” my eating disorder but that was ignored by my doctors for 30 years, so it was not “treated.”

    I do not tell doctors anything. I do not see doctors. I might tell my friends, but you have to be very careful whom you tell.

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  • This is making me sick. Maybe the MIA editors should have explained a few things to the author here. We don’t validate DSM diagnoses here. Any. And that includes so-called personality disorders. The basis of such labeling is based in eugenics, the assumption that some people just don’t make the grade.

    I’d like to point out that HIPAA, which by the way, is not spelled HIPPA, doesn’t oblige the patients to do anything! HIPAA only applies to medical providers and any personnel who work in a hospital or treatment setting. So your shrink’s secretary is bound by HIPAA laws not to go leaking out who sees the shrink. The janitors also cannot tattle about who they saw on the psych ward. Patients are not legally bound. They are highly pressured to not squeal, not say a word when they witness abuse. Sadly, many patients actually believe this is covered by HIPAA law. It isn’t.

    You won’t have to pay a fine or do prison times if you name the names. It is helpful to others if you warn them about a particular abusive clinician, or name the hospitals that treated you badly. What no one should do is exaggerate, lie, or reveal very intimate details about ANY person, on social media, publicly viewable articles, or on a website.

    As a writer I am very careful about revealing anything about other patients. This isn’t because of HIPAA, though. It’s because if you use a name and say you saw that person in a nuthouse, you could be wrecking their reputation. When I have mentioned specific incidents or specific people I sometimes get around the libel issue by fictionalizing the characters, or creating conglomerate characters. You have to disguise their identity in that case.

    I am not subscribing to subsequent commentary on this article mainly because I don’t want any hateful, disgusting talk about “personality disorders” showing up in my inbox.

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  • I agree only partially, Steve. Not all FFs had rotten childhoods. FFs are entirely created by the System. If we conclude they had rotten childhoods, this puts blame on the parents (and of course it couldn’t be the therapist!).

    I was a frequent flyer and my childhood, though not perfect, was not terrible either. I became an FF because it was encouraged by therapists, by these crisis teams, by the community, and mostly, peer pressure within the System.

    I have witnessed patients boasting about how many times they had been hospitalized. This was a status symbol! It was a status symbol to have many suicide attempts on record. In the ED world, if you had been tubed, you’re a notch above the rest. “Almost dying,” this, too, is a status symbol. It is subtle but if you listen closely to the dialogue, that is the implication. Many of these patients that I personally knew who were FFs did not have abusive childhoods. You cannot blame the parents because the majority of blame falls on the System.

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  • This is very true. This was across the board with all institutions where a patient was a known frequent flyer. In fact, FFs figure this out. So eventually they show up at a new ER where they are not known. Why? They know they’ll get better care. Problem is, a lot of FFs will then overuse that new ER and then start to get worse care there. And it only goes on. Most FFs get that way because their outpatient providers catastrophize every misfortune the patient encounters. Mental patients are trained very well to show up at an ER even for a hangnail! After a while you wear out your welcome at any hospital in your local area. I have known people who did that. Finally, after years of this nonsense, they developed a problem that was an actual emergency. Often, FFs die due to neglectful or abusive medical care.

    Whether a person is an FF or not, no one deserves neglectful or abusive medical care. Yes they do cop an attitude. That’s gotta stop.

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  • I feel saddened that the comments are hidden. The survivor voice is squelched because of this.
    That said, I witnessed a wrongful death on a psych ward once. I don’t know, to this day, if the family sued. They did a half-assed job of examining the guy in the ER. He was a known frequent flyer. Do they ever give known frequent flyers adequate medical care? NO! We were shuffled to psych by default. He made it up to the ward. He died (supposed heart attack) during the admissions process. Who the hell failed to notice he was having a cardiac event?

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  • Speaking of Yelp reviews, mine were not removed. I was upvoted to a higher position Yelper so now whatever I write carries more weight.

    My recommendation would be to write other reviews, too. Review a new business that just started up in town, like a restaurant or crafts shop. Make sure every single review is based on your own experience with the business. Use very specific terms explaining why it was great or why it sucked. Stick to your own story and be careful of sensationalism.

    So for a restaurant, you wouldn’t want to write, “I heard the food sucks there.” Where is the indication you really tried it out? Also, “sucks” is vague. A better review might state, “I arrived at 6pm with my family and we had to wait 30 minutes to be seated.” Or, “My wife ordered steak and we had to send it back because it was undercooked.”

    If you are to review a hospital, use very specific terms also. You might want to avoid generalizations and stick to specific events and use colorful description. “The emergency department was so crowded I was forced to sleep in the hallway on a hard plastic chair.” And so on.

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  • That’s funny. My comment that I put here was quietly removed and I wasn’t even told. Of course this makes me even more convinced of what I am saying. I think MIA is great for helping people realize the truth about the mental health system. People learn here that they are not alone.

    MIA needs to honor the survivor voice more, and quit upholding MH professionals as the only experts. Sadly, the notion of their expertise is the underlying assumption here. It’s almost like the editors speaking out of both sides of their mouths. “Yes, MH treatment sucks, but their professionals STILL know better!” A lot of us are pissed off. I have reduced my participation at MIA for this reason.

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  • Fibro is an excuse diagnosis. “I don’t know what is wrong so I am going to call it Fibro so I don’t have to pay any attention to your complaints anymore.” Basically that is all it is. I also believe IBS is a similar excuse diagnosis. “I don’t want to deal with your complaints anymore, so I’ll call it an incurable disease so I can safely ignore what you’re saying.”

    I actually know someone who was misdiagnosed with Fibro. The diagnosis itself caused the person to fall into the looping effect, suddenly developing the entire “symptom-set” of Fibro AFTER the diagnosis. This caused long-term disability, drugging, and down the downward spiral.

    Turned out it was not Fibro, which is by default a misdiagnosis, but something else causing pain, which was overlooked for years until finally it was detected. Treatable and curable.

    Now I am asking myself if this person is going to cling to the Fibro diagnosis as a way of staying on disability, or leap back into employment and enjoying life once cured. I have noticed that a lot of people, an overwhelming number, are really scared to go back to work, which is understandable because the MH System creates this fear. The result of being so scared is to revert to any kind of disease possible, even look for diseases, just to remain a drop-out. Those invisible diseases are likely the best disease of choice, as they’re vaguely defined and difficult to detect, many based on patient report of symptoms…easy way to stay on disability, in my opinion. But many just don’t see the forest through the trees.

    Maybe I have this disease? Or that one? If you keep asking yourself this, you are sure to find something, some new label to put on yourself. It is like finding dust in your home. Look hard enough and you will find something to get picky over.

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  • I agree. I once talked to a teacher who said she never read any reports about students passed onto her by former teachers. I asked her why. She explained that whether these reports are accurate or not is up for debate, first of all. Secondly, should she read them, this would cause her to view us with bias, with pre-formed assumptions.

    I never realized quite how valuable this commentary was until I left the MH system. I recall I put a bit of this “passing down” tendency by teachers in my memoir, but it shows up only briefly. I entered a classroom in the 9th grade, my first day of high school. Immediately, the teacher said, as she read my name on the attendance list, “Oh, I hear you are sometimes late for class because you stay behind at the last class talking to the teachers!”

    This she said right in front of the entire class. The kids burst out laughing. This was not a good way for me to start off 9th grade, sadly.

    While it was true that in 8th grade I enjoyed lengthy, extracurricular discussions with my teachers, what was not passed on was the deep, intellectual content of these discussions.

    I learned a lot from my junior high social studies teacher, Mr Egbert, who taught me all sorts of stuff about social theories, rebellion, and the importance of being my own person. He explained all this in terms of political theory. Mr Egbert inspired me, more than any other teacher. That was sadly left out of the narrative. What got put there instead? “Attention-seeking.”

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  • Roberta, Thanks so much for sharing this story. I am increasingly appalled that elders are drugged so much and so heavily. The plight of elders is of particular interest to me as I am not that much younger than your father. This story so very clearly illustrates the harm that those drugs can do, even drugs for physical conditions such as statins, which are given to elders like candy.

    Much of this is due to the Medicare system. Medicare is not a benefit to elders. It is a benefit to the doctors who treat the elders. Medicare doesn’t pay elders a penny, but is paying billions to doctors and pharma companies. They use elders’ bodies and lives as objects, so they can get paid and enjoy a bit of power in the process. Old people are gonna die no matter what, so who will notice if a few guinea pigs get killed?

    Thing is, we’re human beings, humans with decades of history, culture, memory, and tradition behind us. We are each unique and complex. We are not useless waste just because we are older. The medical profession needs to stop treating us like we’re emotionless, ugly things who lack intellect and perception.

    As for the depression your father feels, my guess is that this will improve, perhaps very slowly, though. Alcohol and drugs (of any sort) will dampen a person’s ability to feel passionate. You end up with an “I don’t care” attitude which is truly a downer. You feel a lack of passion and direction in one’s life. The passion does come back, though. To live–this means you are striving for something. We need to have something we want, whether it is to run 5k faster, to get a better job, to earn enough money to feel secure, to find a mate, to raise kids, or to help a charitable cause.

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  • Wow, Ekaterina, this is really an awesome and enlightening article. If I recall correctly, in my study of music during my early college years I learned about the lives of many famous composers. I enjoyed reading biographies of them, especially those books that wrote about the compositional process.

    I also read a lot of music theory books. Composition is an odd combo of mathematics and creativity. Sometimes it like putting together a puzzle. Some composers believed that a person could compose out of nothing, but I disagreed. Behind whatever we wrote was a backbone of music history, culture, esthetics, and music theory. By all means it wasn’t going to hurt us to study it and learn it well, then, go break the rules!

    An amazing book that I would recommend to anyone interested in the arts would be “Break Every Rule” by Carole Maso. Maso is a writer and the essay within this book, “Break Every Rule,” was extracted from a talk she gave to LGBT writers.

    Rules are good to learn, but as artists we must go beyond blindly following instructions. The greatest art breaks the traditional mold, sets a new path, and shows the reader/audience something they have never seen before. It will make you think in a new way, bringing you from where you are to a new understanding. If you piss people off in the process, make them laugh or cry, this is likely a good sign because you have moved them. You’re not boring. Which is the point, is it not?

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  • I believe a lot of false positives show up due to poor nutrition. Elders may very well not be able to afford food, not be able to get out shopping, or aren’t being fed properly if they rely on someone else to provide for them. Also, it’s harder for an older person to digest food, some do not have teeth anymore, or they might develop constipation from lack of exercise…this can cause a person to reduce their intake. Still other elders actually deliberately restrict intake to the point that they could be classified as eating disordered (usually age will prevent this from being detected). I know as a fact that malnutrition can look just like dementia. Having been through it as an older person I recall I was forgetful, esp short term memory, had balance problems, and felt vertigo almost constantly. It was almost like post-ECT. I couldn’t figure out how to put on my clothes or how to braid my hair. Or whether I was wearing clothes at all….had I forgotten and was now walking around naked? I knew something was wrong but couldn’t quite put a finger on it.

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  • Dragon Slayer, I have studied brainwashing. It is most effectively done not by cruelty, but by kindness, or shall I say under the guise of kindness. You are right that they deliver a double-punch. People are enticed into psych not due to cruelty, which is of course a turnoff, but by the appearance of kindness and air of expertise. This brainwashing technique has been used by many, usually with underlying evil intent. I am not certain all psychiatrists are fully aware of what they are really doing, though. You would think they could see the long-term effects of putting people on drugs and incarceration, and of coerced unemployment….They cannot see it though! They can’t even fathom that they’ve created a horrible mess. Either that or, unable to face the truth, they bury themselves in denial.

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  • None of this surprises me. The corruption and ousting does not surprise me. Anyone who speaks the truth and is persistent about it is going to be targeted by these corrupt organizations that are desperate to silence us. They will silence a person any way they can, legally or illegally.

    I had a speaking engagement in 2017 at an eating disorders conference. I had applied for this and was chosen, as I heard, from among 200 applicants. Months later, the organization (NEDA/BEDA) wrote to me and told me they were trashing my presentation. Basically I was told that an informant had let on that I was somehow too mentally ill (psychotic) to do this presentation. The one way to totally discredit a person is to call that person psychotic. You’ll never be believed or seen as credible again.

    To this day I do not know who made the call to NEDA/BEDA. Undoubtedly a former provider saw me there on the roster and phoned them telling them I’m incompetent or whatever. Only a former provider, or someone claiming to be, would have the clout to do this effectively. I would love to find out. It is only another underhanded way they have retaliated.

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  • I read the FDA’s statement. They ignored all statements written by individual survivors. All. They threw them out stating that it was “anecdotal evidence” and discredited us. Every story sent in about a person whose life was wrecked or who ended up with something other than what they were promised…..all these stories were tossed out. The only survivor comments they kept were those that quoted “studies.” So now, what are we? We aren’t human beings with real stories. We are numbers, statistics only, to be crunched, stacked, compared, and then what?

    Statistics and studies are dangerous because anyone can find a valid study to back what they are saying. The earth is flat? There’s a study that shows that, I’m sure. Trees can talk? I’m sure a real scientific study you can find in the literature backing your claim to make you look credible. I could, if I wished, stick a bunch of references into my writing but doing so would add unnecessary clutter. Memoir is an art form and because the main source of information is ones memory (or saved diaries), footnotes are rarely needed or desirable. In memoir, the writer is generally trusted as a reliable source, but at the same time it’s a given that ALL human memory is imperfect. So if I tell my readers that 20 years ago I was talking to a doctor whose hair was “disheveled,” it’s a given that this is what I happen to recall. Does it really matter what his hair looked like (I mean, how disheveled is disheveled?) or does it matter what he said, what he proclaimed, what he did, and those words that damaged most deeply? The reader WILL trust the memoirist to write honestly, which is what matters.

    There were a lot of things I noticed in the FDA statement, a lot of excuse-making and reasons not to hear us, to throw us under the bus, to pretend we do not exist.

    ECT is now approved not only for tx-resistant depression but for BPD, so watch out, folks. More and more will be diagnosed (based on what?) and fast-tracked. It’ll be such an easy way to get rid of women and elders….THINK ABOUT IT!

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  • Drugs should be a choice, not something a doctor imposes on a person via a prescription or via force. In an ideal world, drugs would be available for purchase freely, without the magic gateway called a doctor. Doctors have far too much power! As soon as you have a prescription, the doc controls the amount, the supply, and also, you have to go back and go back to that particular doctor for refills, so now you are stuck married to that doctor, hooked on the appointments just so you can get your fix.

    In some countries, doctors do not prescribe and people just go to farmacias to purchase whatever they CHOOSE to take. Interestingly, in these countries, the doc-patient relationship is different because the prescription isn’t part of the equation. Doctors have more patient contact and play a different role, interestingly, obviously because they don’t have the instant ties to the drug companies. They are also paid less, that I know of.

    As for reinstating, I made the CHOICE to reinstate. I did this without a doctor’s blessing and without having to go and get diagnosed by any sort of doctor. I knew after five years that I was not sleeping due to damage from drugs, and I was nonfunctional due to insomnia. I thought my life was over because I was so tired, but finally I figured out that I was going to have to reinstate.

    It was common sense. If I wanted to sleep and be functional again, I was going to have to reinstate and then taper at a slower rate than I had previously done. I knew I had to do this without seeing a doctor. Had I seen a doctor I would have been put through a sleep lab test, more misdiagnoses, a shrink, ended up psych diagnosed all over again, and….the diagnoses would have defeated the purpose of leaving the MH system.

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  • I have a knapsack for taking Puzzle on the bus. She’s a dog, not a cat. She loves the bus! She is 12 now and snores when she sleeps. When I am working at home I hear her snoring loudly while I am on the phone talking to my customers. When I have a training at work (we do these on video calls) I sometimes use my computer speakers instead of a headset which freaks her out so she comes and stands right by me. I am surprised she can hear it because she is mostly deaf. Maybe she wants to be “trained” in her old age. Hey, Puzzle, want some Salesforce, or some chicken liver?

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  • Hi Kate, I had to do a search for the word, “Silence” to find your post. Sadly, the silent treatment you are getting from Yale is typical. We do not get the apologies and compensation we justly deserve. We almost always cannot get legal representation, although I am hoping that this changes.

    What remains? An ugly, rotten, hole of emptiness. A vast cauldron of nothing where once we had doctors and other people we truly trust. They’re gone now and that trust we held for them, and for humanity is general, will not return. Instead, what will replace it? Actually, the truth replaces it! Enlightenment that we were deprived of before! We are now bearers of this truth, and we have a responsibility, should we choose to take that responsibility, to pass the word on to others that THIS IS WRONG. What a blessing it is to be the bearers of this truth. Who else can tell this amazing story? Who else has witnessed it? Who else has seen such injustice first-hand? It is like having the Ring that the Hobbits had or having the responsibility of the Ruby Slippers…or The Force….choose whatever metaphor you’d like that suits you….But we must take this responsibility seriously. It is a mission, a new mission, a brilliant and joyful one when you think about it. It will become a passion, a driving force in your life. a reason to go on living.

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  • Samruck, people who are single by choice are NOT deficient and are not lacking and are not limited and are not people who should be somehow pitied. Personally, I pity a lot of married people and can’t fathom being tied down. The thought of it is repulsive to me, although I did enjoy a relationship very much a long time ago. I am a different person now. I am older and my priorities are not the same.

    We cannot judge others according to our standards of what is normal and according to what WE think “happy” or “secure” means. I am very happy the way I am and feel secure just as I am. I’m not lacking, I’m not deficient, and I don’t feel the need to go out on the prowl for yet one more “partner.”

    It is a very narrow view indeed to assume that everyone needs, or doesn’t need, a partner. As soon as we say “everyone,” we are in for a lot of trouble!

    We are social creatures, true, but we humans have a vast variety of ways to be social. Having a single partner is only one way, there are many, many ways. I agree that some people are lonely and some desire more social contact than what they have. Still others would like to have more alone time than they currently have, and more privacy.

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  • Hey Steve, Remembering the doc who shocked me and the McLean docs who covered up the damages, that is, Dr. Michael Henry, shock doc, and the all the others, all of whom I name in my documentation to the FDA, I bet hardly any of them could make chocolate chip cookies from scratch! They don’t teach that in medical school. Too complicated for their simplistic mentality. Are you kidding? They buy one of those boxed mixes from the supermarket. I bet you anything. Or buy them from Whole Foods, snob bakery section.

    Because of their drugs I can’t eat salt now. Last night I enjoyed salt-free pizza. From scratch, my own recipe. I’m getting good at making it. Okay, from now on, it’ll be called Screw Psychiatry Pizza. Or some such thing.

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  • I have no desire to date. None. I’m not asexual. I just have other, more pressing priorities. Activism is more important. Writing is more important. Career is more important.

    I dated a guy last summer and really did not like it. He insisted on taking me out to eat which meant unhealthy eating all the time. It was hard to find anything healthy on these menus that my body could tolerate. To him, eating well meant “You eat out all the time.” I couldn’t get it through his head that I really wanted to cook my own sensible food, save money and didn’t want all the extravagance and unnecessary flattery. I couldn’t imagine spending much more time going out to eat in expensive restaurants several nights a week like that. Did he have any paycheck left to pay the utility bills? Well, he must have sensed my discomfort and broke up with me, telling me the usual “other woman” lie because he didn’t want to hurt me by telling me the truth. I knew, though. He was uncomfortable around me.

    I’m just too independent to date anyone. I value my freedom. I have Puzzle. That’s enough for me. I don’t need some human hanging around….clinginess? Ick. I have friends but a sig other, naw, not for me.

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  • Hi Everyone, I have not been able to keep up with the comments because I have had work obligations and I have also been working hard on my book manuscript. I assume everyone has heard about the new FDA ruling that took effect yesterday. Peter Breggin announced it yesterday during his broadcast and discussed it. I announced it in my own blog as soon as I heard about it, which I believe was the day before Christmas when the FDA quietly announced it. I notice they announced it when they KNEW people were likely to be absorbed in the holiday rush and unlikely to check their email or keep up with the news. Did they think those of us activists wouldn’t notice? We did, however…..They have downgraded (or upgraded, whatever…) the ECT machine for certain diagnoses, claiming it’s “safe and effective” for severe BPD, treatment-resistant depression, and a few other diagnoses involving catatonia.

    Watch for increased diagnosis of severe BPD and depression, and widening of the umbrella of what is considered “treatment-resistant.” Schiz is a little harder to demonstrate but could be done with a few drugs inside the system or if the patient has dementia. This is going to prove quite profitable for elderly. More and more elders are going to be declared depressed because it’s easy to get the ECT paid for with the insurance they have, courtesy of taxpayers, Medicare. Better yet, get them on Medicaid also and milk it fast….ECT is great for that.

    It’s easy to get an elder depressed! Put the elder on blood pressure (or other) drugs, separate the elder from family in a “hospital,” (five or six days is enough to “prove” the elder is depressed, right?), do unnecessary surgery courtesy of Medicare since it’s “covered,” or tell the elder he/she has a terminal and hopeless medical condition. Poof! Instant dependency on doctors, multiple unnecessary and harmful appointments (they’re retired, so it’s justified, right?), resulting depression, reason to medicate and subsequent ECT.

    What else are they going to do with elders? Elders are a drain on the system, a waste of societal resources…….right? Just like those “mentally ill,” a blight on society!

    Except there’s one problem. We all get old…….But never mind that……..Folks in their 20s and, to an extent, 30s, can’t see too far into the future…and psychiatry takes full advantage of this little tendency when they prescribe their pills, of course…….

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  • I went through a period of loneliness. For certain, isolation was the cause. I am very outgoing and not shy. Shyness was not a cause of the isolation. Fact was, barely anyone spoke to me for a period of about two years. Psych had wrecked my reputation, causing others to shy away. I was thought of by others as violent, paranoid, psychotic, whatever. Yes I saw this in their social media posts. They also called me “toxic.” One ex-friend wrote that I was “no longer a person.” I DID notice the way others who considered me “mentally ill” pushed me away by insisting on “email only” or “Facebook only” relationships. If I dared point this out to the person and suggested talking on the phone or maybe even getting together, the person would refuse or make excuses. The excuse-making was very noticeable.

    Later, when people started talking to me, with much hesitation, some of my over-therapized friends were methodical in their methods of deliberately distancing themselves. When I finally twisted their arms tightly enough I might get a phone call, but many routinely cut phone conversations off after ten minutes or some other set time, often the same amount of time per conversation. That was noticeable in the way they insisted on ending conversations no matter what the content was. I had other friends who cut a conversation off if I ever strayed onto the topic of psych abuse.

    It was ironic that I had been through this awful experience and not one person was willing to let me talk about it. I was silenced as soon as I brought it up. My natural tendency was to continue to do so. This is what trauma will do to you. You will continue to pull the conversation toward the subject of the harm because you NEED to talk about it!

    Thankfully, that period of extreme social isolation is over now. I have friends at work and other places as well where I have been able to find really nice people, and I have been communicating with my family, too. Because my life is now enriched by real friendships, I don’t at all mind spending my holidays alone. I get the day off so I celebrate by working on the book I am writing. This makes me very happy indeed!

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  • JanCarol, By all means, YES to increased healthy fats! I don’t know when the “low fat” trend started but it has been in part to blame for many dietary disasters, including being the primary cause of ED for SOME people.

    Although I hesitate to make any recommendations online (or to anyone at this point) because people tend to grossly misinterpret whatever they read or otherwise pick up from such sources, I might make a general statement about healthy fats! Increasing my use of healthy fats (no, “vegetable oil” isn’t one of them) helped me cure my ED. This was likely the #1 change in my diet that stopped binge eating in its tracks for me. I learned this not from a doctor, not even from reading “studies” or from medically-derived material, but actually by intensive self-experimentation that started as soon as I began to depart from the System.

    First of all, common dieting knowledge told me that consuming fat will lower my appetite. Generally, restaurants know this. Look at the appetizers restaurants freely give to customers. Rarely do they give out nuts or anything fatty. They want you hungry, not satiated! More likely, they’ll whet the customers’ appetites by serving salty chips with a mustardy dip or salsa.

    Eating nuts will satiate a person. I don’t know why, but this was one of my little anorexic “tricks” I knew for decades. This is due to the fat content. The diet industry was revisiting this idea and marketing new products to people around 2010-2013 at the time in the form of pine nut oil. I was desperate to try anything to stop binge eating so I tried it and found it helpful.

    While pine nut oil WILL help SOME people (I tended to use 1/2 tsp before each meal, knowing that after the meal was my primary binge risk time) it’s also true that less expensive healthy fats will “work” just as well. You bet people figured that out! At that point, expensive pine nut oil lost its appeal.

    I believe it was Dave Ausprey who came out with his own brand of Bulletproof oil. People rave over that stuff. I believe, though, that any decent quality MHT oil is equally valuable for less money.

    I consume an array of healthy fats each day, which may include various types of nuts (unsalted, unprocessed, often those I take out of the shell myself), good quality olive oil (for certain sauces and general use), lots of ghee, MHT oil, pure sesame oil for flavoring, sometimes coconut oil (for sauteing), red palm oil (for baking), and likely others.

    I’m a little fussy over which types of nuts I buy since some are more recommended than others when one has kidney disease, which I have from lithium. I usually buy these in bulk, in large bags I store in the fridge. They DO have a shelf life. Now and then I purchase about $50 worth of them (again, unsalted, uncoated, not glazed or seasoned, not roasted because often these companies often roast the nuts in unhealthy oils and chemicals) and have them delivered.

    I should also add that I don’t hesitate to eat “carbs.” I eat a LOT of carbs now. I make my own no-salt bread and I spread ghee on it. I eat plain pasta and I put no-salt homemade sauce and olive oil on it, lots of veggies (these are mostly water and carbs with some nutrients such as vitamins and minerals, too!) and also many whole grains (again, carbs!) including buckwheat, millet, even popcorn with healthy oil dribbled over it. I try to reduce protein considerably since my kidneys can’t clear it easily and consuming too much of it will raise my creatinine. I sure didn’t learn that from a doctor. I studied like mad, experimented, and figured out on my own what I need.

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  • Hi JanCarol,

    I am sure you speak from experience, being a leader on the surviving antidepressants board. Can I add one thing? Mainly because these are public message boards and I fear that any dietary recommendation might be misinterpreted by someone randomly stopping by, hoping for answers.

    While intermittent fasting and “keto” is great for some, both of these are disastrous for anyone who has been through an eating disorder. My eating disorder was started because I went on a diet similar to the “keto” diet, 1980 version. I had no history of ED, and wasn’t depressed and didn’t even know what a fashion magazine was. One thing, though, my mother had survived anorexia when she was a teen and had fully recovered. There was also nothing in my family history such as sexual abuse that might have been a stereotypical predictor of ED.

    It has been years and I have come to realize (as many of us have!) that the diet itself caused the ED. This has in fact been proven to happen to SOME people who go on drastic diets. I would also include any type of fasting (except whatever people do for their religious duties) as causative for ED. The diet literally causes a cycle that is very hard to break, and sometimes lasts for years or even decades.

    If anyone is recovering from psychiatry and recovering from drugging, I would avoid mucking around with restrictive diets if you have any history of ED, because doing so could rekindle your ED. You do not want that nightmare back into your life.

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  • I am saddened to read this. I note in your comments, Neesa, that you started off suicidal and then got put on drugs and it was all downhill from then on. This is not an uncommon story. I know others who are afraid to get off the drugs because of a return of voices or whatever. I think JanCarol’s observations are very important. I have read that very serious dependency on drugs requires an extremely slow taper, possibly at a rate of 2% instead of the 10% many people try.

    I am concerned about your health. I suppose because my boyfriend, whom I dated 17 years, was on Clozaril, took it as prescribed, was “stabilized” on it, kept his appointments faithfully, and died at the age of 45. No, not suicide. His heart couldn’t take it anymore. It was sudden.

    I had heard him struggling to breathe at night, coughing from congestion, rolling over as if doing so would somehow ease the strain on his heart just to keep pumping. The drug had caused weight gain, made it impossible to quit smoking, lowered his resistance to infection, and was combined with Prolisec and Ditropan, which I hear cause additional risks. He was given Trilafon and Prozac on top of all that, and the thyroid pill (since he was a lithium survivor like me). We both had diabetes insipidus from past lithium use.

    After he died, I asked why he was taken. Why was I not taken? He was the better one, the wiser one, the one that the kids loved so much (he had about 38 nieces and nephews). Why Joe? Why? Can’t we just trade places?

    Nothing would bring him back. It was 2003. The next year, the Sox won the Series and I remember I cried over that, too. Why couldn’t he be alive to see this?

    We knew so little back then. I shudder to recall my own ignorance and naivete.

    We walk a tightrope, and sometimes, we don’t even know we’re on it.

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  • Hello, I couldn’t help but giggle over this article. I went to med school, too. Went to Harvard Medical School, “residency” at McLean. I’d love to say that, now that I’m not even in the MH system anymore, with a bit of a smirk on my face knowing I was smart enough for med school all along so that statement might actually be taken literally.

    I was an experimentee, used at McLean Grand Rounds several times, right after ECT, learned on, and no, they don’t give a hoot about confidentiality, HIPAA or not. I remember afterward they’d leave those meetings with smug looks on their faces like they’d finally solved the puzzle, only to tell me one more concocted lie after another. “Of course there’s nothing wrong with your brain and it’s all in your head!” Was it going to be more ECT to “cure” the increasing confusion I felt from the shock? What now, doc?

    Finally, they’d messed with me tooooo badly, and they needed to get rid of me, embarrassed or maybe they’d possibly damaged me beyond all hope, certainly beyond recognition. “State hospital is just the thing for you!” they said. Lies, lies, lies.

    I didn’t think of it as lies. I never did. I always assumed they had best of intentions. Cover up damages from shock? That, of course, was the last thing on my mind. I only wanted to know why I couldn’t think straight. Why, doc? Why?

    Just as they were about to shuttle me off to State I told them to go screw. Told them I would kill myself rather than go to State.

    That did it. That prompted my instant GRADUATION from McLean. With honors, of course. Oh, and a scholarship to a community hospital and another 15 years of coerced (but paid for by taxpayers) mental health care until I got myself out.

    When I read “Grand Rounds” wow that brought back memories………What bullshit. What do they do with lab rats after they kill them, anyway?

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  • Most of these studies serve as last-ditch attempt to legitimize “therapy” as okay while so many people are damning psychiatry. Therapy is psychiatry’s little sister. For many patients, if not almost all, therapy is the Gateway to the Endless Pit of the Mental Illness System, never to return. You want a diagnosis, drugs, more diagnoses, increased level of care needed, repeat offender, chronicity? Please go to a therapist. It might be a slower, more insidious route than showing up at an ER, but it’ll work just as well to silence you, put you out of work, ghettoize you, and kill you off early.

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  • Dear Madmom, I was once a member of a UU church. One day, I got totally fed up and decided to write to a higher-up about my own minister’s unfair treatment of diagnosees at our church. I was writing on behalf of all diagnosees, and not only us, but on behalf of others he had treated in bigoted fashion. I really thought the email had gone nowhere, as the higher-up wrote to me saying that she could do nothing and that if anything were to be done it would have to be solved in-house. I assumed it had stopped right there. However, it must have gotten straight back to the church. This was over New Year’s, the beginning of 2014.

    On January 10th, I was coming home from a protest in Boston. It was around 3pm when I was dropped off by my friends. Ten minutes after my arrival home, I heard a loud knock on my apartment door. There was a lady cop, who was the cop social worker, and two church people who were committee members. They accused me of planning to kill the minister! Where did they get that insane idea?

    I told them I had no such plans! I told them I was shocked and didn’t know whether to laugh or to cry. Where was the evidence of this, I said. No warrant, no paperwork, just standing there accusing me of future dangerousness, and seeming to try to get a confession out of me, or try to get me to fork up some weapons, which I clearly stated I did not have! I am five foot one, and couldn’t see too well. Why were they accusing little ole me?

    They claimed I had written something on a public website. I said this was a false accusation and told them I had not written anything on a public church website. Maybe they had the wrong person. I was so, so scared. What right did they have to terrorize me like that?

    They told me I could come back to church, SO LONG AS I DID NOT WRITE ANYMORE. I told them no thanks, I would like to retain my Freedom of Speech and Expression, which is rightfully mine and always was. Conditional church membership? Never heard of that in the UU Principles, I said. Then they said this little visit was “off the record,” that they weren’t telling anyone else at church. Oh great, now I’ll be called crazy if I ever mention it to anyone else. Was it also off the police record, too? Was this cop threatening me on the side? Maybe paid by them to do this? I never found out.

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  • Exactly, Oldhead. People have a right to put anything they want into their bodies. It might be downright poison such as gasoline, but they still have the right to do it, in my opinion. How many people choose street drugs? Some. How many are coerced via the prescription pad and assume that means “safe and effective”? Prescribed pills include opiates, blood that is transfused, antibiotics, many drugs for things like blood pressure, birth control pills, and all kinds of stuff that’s downright dangerous. Do people choose to exercise, have a healthy lifestyle, eat right and avoid mental health care? If you do you might feel a ton better.

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  • Hey, Oldhead. It’s been done. It’s called street drugs. Been around a looooonnnnng time and they ain’t going away just yet. I hope not because shouldn’t people have the right to choose? Choice via prescribed drugs can’t possibly be choice at all. The prescription adds authority and illusion of safety to the pills that shouldn’t even be there. I’m all for free choice. You wanna take drugs? Take drugs. Leave the MD and his power and institutions and diagnoses out of the equation so that way you really choose it.

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  • I agree with bcharris here. People who do their own research and take control of their health, understanding why they take each supplement (instead of blindly following doctor’s advice) know what they’re getting themselves into. Those of us who have taken our bodies back will stop taking a supplement if it makes us feel sick or worsens our health. We don’t need doctor permission to make our health decisions for us.

    I think this above research and publicity is a move by Pharma to scare people into believing drugs are safer than OTC supplements simply because a doctor prescribes them. This is a move likely pushed by the AMA and other physician interests pushing for more power and authority for physicians, in hopes of bringing back their exclusive prescribing power, strengthening their elite position in society. This kind of hype reminds me of when L-Tryptophan was taken off the market for a while due to one contaminated batch….only because Western Medicine is very threatened by people being able to take supplements and improve their health. They are afraid of losing their power…it is a move of desperation here.

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  • When I was abused in a hospital I lost a lot of my friends. They claimed it was ‘impossible” that such a thing could have happened. They claimed I was “delusional.” My therapist claimed the unit I was on did not exist. Even now, people outside of MIA claim it couldn’t possibly have occurred. However, it did occur. This kind of thing is not “the exception.” I was not psychotic. These were just people doing their job, apparently. These were nurses scared to speak out against the ones that had abused, scared of losing their jobs, nurses that knew I was right but afraid that if they sided with me they’d get fired. They were right. They would have! Still, when I said abuse, I meant abuse. I stand by my words. I know I am telling the truth. It’s hard to forgive when you were deprived of water. It’s hard to forgive when they defended their actions that nearly killed me, and then, to keep me quiet, tried to get me committed in a state hospital to ensure I didn’t pursue the case legally. Seven years have passed and I am still called psychotic to this day. I hate it.

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  • Someone left a disrespectful comment about there being no such thing as reincarnation. To that, I say the following:

    I am a Jew. As a Jew, I choose to tolerate other people’s belief that Jesus was the Messiah. To me, the concept of Messiah does not compute, and when I hear “Jesus” I cringe inside. When I hear Christmas music I also cringe, but am I going to swear out loud at the Muzak when I head out to Walmart in a bit? No! Why? Because it’s not polite.

    As a Jew I am also agnostic. It is my right to have this belief, which for the most part I do not share with others. As a Jew, I choose to tolerate people’s belief in God. I also choose to tolerate people’s belief that there is no God, that is, Atheism. I choose not to choose.

    As a Jew I also feel obligated to tolerate beliefs I do not hold myself but I know are a deeply held part of nonwestern cultures, such as reincarnation. I think it is hugely disrespectful and narrow-minded to say that reincarnation doesn’t exist, is a delusion, or is impossible. What if I said the Christmas story was a mass delusion and anyone who believes it should be incarcerated? Maybe the entirety of Vatican City should be locked up and drugged.

    Is life even real? Please poke me. I must be dreaming. This dog is so cute, she couldn’t be real.

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  • Oh wow, this is so funny and sad. That was about my attitude, too. I could predict their actions because I had been there so many times. I agree that one’s thoughts are private and are no one’s business! I can think anything I want! I can walk past a store and think of breaking in a stealing everything inside. Have I committed a crime? No! I honestly don’t care whom another person believes they are reincarnated from! That’s private business and should stay private. In fact, locking a person up for any belief regarding reincarnation is treading on incarceration based on religious beliefs. You did not do any deed to cause this. I’m glad you’re out. Stay out. Don’t go back to them and don’t tell them your thoughts anymore. They don’t help. They hurt.

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  • I witnessed a library cop reprimanding a young student for holding his head down appearing to be asleep at the library. I was shocked. In fact, he was not asleep. He was holding his head like that because he was watching a video on his cellular telephone and wanted to shield his phone from the bright lights. So he was hovering over the phone and looking down into it, certainly not napping. I was so appalled at this cop’s behavior (and the fact that she reprimanded me for quietly eating at the library when I was a regular patron and I was truly starving) that I plan to write to the library administration and complain. While it’s a rule you can’t eat there, I was then stuck eating outside in the cold. At that point someone mistook me for a homeless person because I was so starving after a two-hour, freezing cold bus ride. Libraries shouldn’t be run like penitentiaries. They used to be sanctuaries for people. Sad.

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  • They use Ed as a way to control patients. Those of us who have been in this sort of “care” see this technique used regularly on patients. If you question the rules, that is Ed speaking. If you ask to be released, that’s Ed speaking. If you dislike your therapist, that’s Ed again. If you ever dare speak of human rights, it’s surely Ed. They demand that you banish Ed from your head immediately by holding onto a frozen orange or they might hand you some pills or make you do very gentle yoga or color-by-number. Yes, it’s abuse, but as soon as you point that out they’ll let you know your eating disorder is surely to blame. Being human is a symptom, speaking out a disease, asking for fair, humane treatment is pathological. Your best bet is to vandalize the place, maybe write terrible swear word on the walls in permanent crayon. They’ll have to kick you out if you do that. Then you are free and you’ll get your rights back.

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  • As usual, the most important factor was left out. Were these individuals in treatment for their EDs? This is so important. I believe the ED voice is treatment-induced. I have seen the believe in the ED-Devil-like character induced in treatment, coerced into patients by therapy. This is caused by exposure to ED-specific therapy. Those who have not had this type of therapy do not have an ED voice and have never heard of such a thing. All you have to do, if you want to induce an ED voice, is to pester a patient, repeatedly, “What is ED saying?” Just ask that a bunch of times, obnoxiously, expecting a response. Ask like ED is a real person that has taken possession of the vulnerable, trapped patient. Now, the patient is more trapped. By the imaginary Devil ED. Very good job. You have succeeded! Now you have a guaranteed Revolving Door Syndrome.

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  • Yes, I agree, this article is brilliant. I was cracking up over Frances’ statements. Just in themselves, they are typical of a shrink…speaking out of both sides of his mouth. Passing the buck. Refusal to take responsibility. Setting a terrible example also. Even blaming patients…and as a physician he’s supposedly a person that patients look up to, a role model of sorts.

    If Allen Frances was my employee and I witnessed him acting like that I would reprimand him because I would want my work associates to take responsibility for their own actions. If I kept him on I would demand that he clean up his own spilt milk. Lying and claiming you’re “delegating” only gets you in hot water.

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  • I will not call anyone toxic. I can think of a few toxins, such as psych drugs and Agent Orange, but humans are not truly poisonous. I have done multiple blog entries on this topic and also, I believe, a podcast. I feel very strongly about this. I believe everyone deserves a chance. In fact, I will make a point of befriending people that others diagnose as toxic, because loneliness and being labeled is a horrible thing to endure.

    In the name of self-care, a group of about ten friends kicked me out right at the time I needed them most. They couldn’t have timed it better. That was eight years ago and it took me a long time to get over it. I went back to their forum and they kept telling each other they’d done the right thing and “taken care of ourselves.” Okay, they may have thought so, but they hurt me badly in the process. They continued to call me horrible names such as “not a person anymore,” “toxic,” and “negative.” Those words. It hurt so badly I wanted to cry. Then they’d go congratulate each other again for “doing the right thing.” I hated it.

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  • Harper that seems like an extremely formulaic and narrow viewpoint. I no longer believe that there’s one magic answer to everything that will work for everyone. I know a lot of people out there who will tell you there’s only one way, notably, Evangelical Christians, some folks in AA, some therapists, and people who hold rigid religious beliefs. Oh, including some who say they’re Buddhists. Maybe some psychiatrists, too.

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  • I think the title should be, “Fewer than half…” not “Less than half…” since we’re talking about the number of studies here. Just sayin’.

    I see this all the time. Yesterday on a website I saw witch instead of which. Maybe they spelled it that way to be seasonal.

    I wish the general public had easier access to texts of medical studies. A lot of the time I try to open a pdf and they want me to pay. Of course they do not want the public to be informed, so they can maintain their power and authority over us.

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  • Mental health professionals are notorious non-apologists. I believe they do feel guilty but feel that apologizing means they’ll be sued. After I was deprived of water in a facility, which traumatized me, they did not apologize even though it’s obvious they did something horribly wrong. What happened is that my doctor lied to me two years later, defending the hospital’s actions, telling me the water deprivation was medically necessary. A simple peek into my blood levels at the time, and knowledge of my own body (and the result of taking lithium) tell me otherwise.

    I’m not sure what to do with this, the knowledge that a crime was committed and nowhere to go with it. I feel this empty void where there should be communication. I hate the silence from them and the occasional retaliation they still try to pull off. I’m still scared to travel to Boston, scared of what they could do if I were recognized, scared because of the very remote chance that I would run into a previous provider. Yes I know that’s illogical, but since when does fear have to follow what the intellect tells it?

    And yet the one thing I want to do is to ask them, earnestly, for an apology. To ask if they validate that what they did was morally abhorrent and harmed me deeply. To demand that they change their policies, change the way they do things, and from now on, admit fault immediately instead of covering their butts and then waiting years to do so.

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  • They very well do cut corners every chance they can, every time they think they can get away with it. They do it in nursing facilities. Cut the staff so they don’t have to pay as many people. Cut housekeeping on weekends. Cut the meals on weekends, too. McLean did this. We had only snacks on weekends, froot loops and shit. Stop the real arts and crafts. Close the fitness facility and cut the nicer staff who did recreation. Cut therapists out entirely. Just drug em. McLean cut their hairdresser, too. My boyfriend was friends with her and he was heartbroken that she was going to leave. She used to cut his hair. She told me he had the thickest head of hair you’ve ever seen. True.

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  • I have a day job too. I also have a masters degree in an unrelated field. And yet all the time these MH professionals and MANY SURVIVORS too claim I have no expertise except as a former patient. This is such bullshit I am ready to throw my degree at them (along with my 3.95 GPA) and hit as hard as I can. Yes we can be competent individuals and that competency and responsibility does not necessarily mean you work in the MH field.

    No violence intended, I must add. A degree isn’t a physical thing you can really throw. The paper only represents it, represents years of hard study and work and heartache and triumph.

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  • yeah I agree with Oldhead, psych has pulled the wool over society’s eyes. That IS abuse, with people running around scared they might have a disease and teens killing themselves because they know how bad it is to be locked up.

    I don’t see myself as a victim. I have moved past the trauma of being abused in a hospital, although I still feel it to a large extent. But I am thrilled that I have found a way of life that does not include doctor appointments, doesn’t include pharma, doesn’t include going to a therapist because that is assumed to be the one and only way to “self-improve.” It is bullshit. Go to the gym, join a class, learn herbal medicine, get your driver’s license, all these things are self-improvement with real rewards.

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  • Yeah, Shaun, The System is great if you are scared to go into the workplace or if you can’t find a job. FREE MONEY and it’s for life! Completely invisible permanent chemical imbalances come in handy you know. Just about as handy as “back pain.” A few towns over you can see billboards all over the place, lawyers advertising to help get people on the payments so they don’t have to work. Handy here in the county where jobs are so scarce and poverty so high that dis-ability looks like riches. If you are disabled you get paid per kid, too. Useful, and profitmaking, I must say.

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  • Anonymous, I took a life coaching class but very quickly gave it up when I realized how scammy the business is. I am doing just as you said, working in an unrelated field and due to be totally off disability very soon. They have already stopped SSI, and I have been using up my nine months they give you of free money assuming you will fail. I keep activism and work separate. I really like my job even though it isn’t in my field (writing). It’s a job, with its pros and cons, but it pays the bills so no more dependency on Uncle Sam and taxpayer money. Not only that, I got a certification under my belt in the process. I am looking for a second job (the backup).

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  • I was refused a volunteer job working in any capacity for an eating disorders organization because of my anti-psych stance.

    All I want to do is offer something different and refreshing to these (mostly) young women. A new picture of what it means to live free of the very serious eating issues (call it what you want) that I suffered from in secret for over three decades. A new view of what it means to be autonomous, responsible, and free of the tyranny of doctors and institutions. I want them to see that not only is recovery (from ED) possible, but it’s not something that takes rocket science, either. Recovery doesn’t mean you have to obey some outside authority. In fact, the road to recovery is outside of their rules. Their rules will only keep you sick and keep you coming back. I want them to know that the answer comes from within, that it is already there, and that it’s far more attainable than the MH professionals would like them to believe. However, I’ve been banned every time I try. They find out, or, in the case of the NEDA conference I was supposed to speak at, someone from my past (who?) literally called up the conference organizer and told them I was a dangerous SMI. Very sad.

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  • My eyes were recently opened about just how low we are on the totem pole when I received a somewhat rude response from Jessica from the Foundation for Excellence. This was maybe a week ago. I had asked her to help publicize my project, http://forcedpsychiatry.com. Jessica outright refused, telling me any project they publicize has to be run by “experts.”

    Excuse me? If you are compiling a literary anthology on forced psych, what degree would you need? NOT an MH degree, actually, such folks are not qualified to edit an anthology. I have a masters in creative writing which I earned in 2009. That DOES make me an expert. But us lowly exes couldn’t possibly be experts in anything but patienthood. Bullshit.

    Jessica also further insulted me by telling me I was welcome to write an article on their site on “lived experience” since I had expertise in THAT. Hey, what about all those years I studied my butt off in undergrad and graduate school? Is that NOTHING because I’m an ex-patient? Is my degree made meaningless because I’m specialized in different field, not MH? I’m also certified in customer service, by the way. Does that, too, not count, because of my CLASS?

    Yep, we are still in the lowest class, especially in the eyes of these professionals. I don’t care how different they claim to be, most still see us that way, sorry to say.

    Never mind the other publications that also REFUSED to help publicize http://forcedpsychiatry.com. Meanwhile, these same publications promote MH professionals and their projects.

    I also do “peer support” but for sure I do not call it that. I call it helping other people, reaching out to people as a friend, and doing everything I can just to set a good example of what life can be like after you leave the MH System. I blog almost daily (http://juliemadblogger.com), been doing so now since 2005. Trying to expose the industry as much as I can.

    There. A bit of self-promotion which is okay for MH professionals to do, but not okay for me, apparently. I’m called personality-disordered if I even ask.

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  • Sorry, Cassie, there is no way I am going to write, publicly or off the record, that “mental health care is valid and necessary.” Not to Ben Carey or anyone else. No way, and I will not say it publicly, either.

    Not after MH “care” coerced me onto disability which I never needed nor qualified for. It took me years to find a job after forced unemployment. Being supposedly dis-abled stole 35 years of my life, which is over half of it. Now I am 60 and feel like I have to rush to catch up and do everything I can do before lithium-induced kidney disease does me in.

    Not after I learned, at last, that the only way to cure my ED for good was to ditch the MH professionals. And I am not the only one!

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  • Cassie, Where did you get “ogre” from? I would never say that. I don’t say that MH professionals are bad people. I believe that the MH profession is corrupt. That says nothing of the character of those who practice it. Have you ever worked for an unethical company? I did, a few times. For example, I was stuck in a job selling a product that was a ripoff. Now selling a ripoff product is unethical, and yet, to keep my job, I had to keep on selling it. It was a temp position and I could hardly wait for it to end. Since I worked in a position where I was coerced into doing something unethical, does that make me an “ogre”?

    There are no ogres out there. I never use that word to describe human beings. It is a label, a cruel word, and I just do not say it.

    I have known MH professionals who were “wise” and “caring.” They still harmed me! They labeled me, caused dependency, and the therapy was addicting. Continuing going to the “nice” ones kept me out of the job market for a good many years. Oh, not only that, they claimed the “treatment” was life-sustaining.

    If someone is going to be “caring” or “wise” in your life, I would hope it would be a spouse, parent, or close friend, or perhaps a caring teacher or mentor. “Wise” and “caring” are not traits limited to the MH professional world. They don’t have a patent on wisdom.

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  • de facto, very good points. Mental health professionals are highly likely to harm their patients since THEIR premise is false, their ideas about us false, their stereotyping, their profiling of us, their tendency to classify us into whatever’s convenient, their claims that imprisonment is “treatment,” their repeated lies that the drugs are not addictive, that therapy couldn’t possibly also be addictive, that MH care seriously traumatizes people. The very fact that they call it “care” or “help” is a big joke.

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  • Johanna, I saw your comment that mentioned “imbalances” but I cannot find it here posted in the comments section. While there is much we do not know, we do know that the “chemical imbalance” theory of so-called MI has been debunked ages ago. We do know that there’s an imbalance called hypothyroidism, one called dehydration, another involving blood sugar, etc. We also know for sure that these psych drugs cause imbalances, never mind irreparable organ damage and early death.

    When you mentioned that ‘imbalances resolve,” I wonder what the heck there was to resolve chemically in me except the imbalance caused by the drugs.

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  • The usual psychobabble is that people who are suicidal cannot see the forest through the trees. Is this true? Or do they see the grim reality of the forest in a way others around them fail to see?

    I recall an article about a vet who took his own life. He left a detailed note. The Vet services all failed him. He lists them one by one in the note and states that each one of them could have helped but refused to. He was in dire financial straits and was unable to get help for physical issues or trauma trying any way he could. His note sent a very clear message to the VA.

    He also made a clear statement about the various “help” agencies out there that never provide help. I have noticed that the nonprofits have sold out. Many are funded by sources that would surely create a biased atmosphere for anyone seeking help.

    One I noticed was a rape help agency I had gone to in 2008. They did help me then, gave me advice, etc. However, when I contacted them again the only thing they seemed capable of doing was insulting me over the phone with the usual breathing instructions.

    This ain’t help, it is insulting! I find it especially insulting when someone decades younger than me thinks they know how to breathe better.

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  • I have no doubt that a writer’s inability to write would cause suicide. Go sit in on a discussion between MFA in Creative Writing students. If there’s anything worse than death to a writer it is inability to write.

    When I graduated, though I was scarcely aware of it, I took on a silent oath. That I would write about everything I had seen and heard, much of which happened on the wards. For doing just that I was persecuted and forced into exile.

    Drugging and shock are great ways to silence writers. It is on par with banning their books or bullying them or threatening until they stop.

    I believe it is the week after next we celebrate Banned Books Week. I’m trying to figure out how to celebrate.

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  • I am revisiting this post and read the article, as much as I had access to. I noted the wording of the article, “only 5%” had ESRD. If you realize the sampling was of those who started on lithium after 1980, and had been on it at least ten years as of 2010, this gives us a sampling of people who are likely age 30 to 50. They likely do have kidney disease, and they are not likely YET at ESRD. Patients who reach ESRD are usually put on dialysis. Death most usually occurs during the first six months of dialysis. If you survive that, you are likely to live a few more years.

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  • The discrediting of people with college degrees is rampant. Your mental patient status trumps your degree. There are exceptions, people who have MH-related degrees. I have been discredited on here, on MIA frequently, discredited by other patients and survivors, and dismissed by supposed “professionals.” All this renders my degree and extensive education meaningless on the social level. I can’t be trusted, I might be violent, and if I say I am good at something, that gets scoffed at as grandiosity or just dismissed. I have far more authority and get more respect at my workplace than I do here.

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  • Yes, Steve, that story about the second therapist really needs to get out there. I have spoken of her many times in my own blog, but the blog isn’t getting a lot of pageviews right now. I am trying to get the story more visible without resorting to joining Facebook again. She is still practicing. I don’t think she should be, and I don’t know where to go to report her where I will be taken seriously.

    I face the usual dilemma, the easy way out that people use. All they have to do is call me crazy and my story and anything I say is silenced.

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  • Michael I am sharing this one in a blog post of my own. I just blogged about this.

    In my work in customer service most of our customers are kind, polite, and gracious. However, we do get ones we call “irate.” This is the common term in the industry. They even yell or swear at us into the phone. Some are extremely rude and blameful. I’ve had some call from their cars and then blame me for THEIR background noise. The list goes on.

    We get trained in this. As home workers we are told to empathize, or at least sound that way. We are told to force an empathetic attitude even if we do not feel it and what we are really thinking is, “I really am about to sneeze,” or some such thing. Or, as of late,”Darn I need to turn on the fan.”

    We have learned not to take these irate customers personally. They may say they’re pissed, but who are they really pissed at? Me? For an error made by UPS? They do, and they even blame us for their own errors.

    We have figured out that more often than not, these customers are projecting whatever is going on in their lives onto us, because we are there to pick on! I had one, early on, crying over the phone over a pair of flip-flops we couldn’t get to her in time for vacation. I knew something else was happening. Maybe it was a really important date, or maybe this was just the last straw for her in a long line of recent misfortunes she had experienced. I weathered the storm by realizing that, and also later on, joked to myself that my best flip-flops were from the dollar store! Of course, saying that would have gotten me fired. Maybe she will stop at a five and dime on vacation and find the perfect pair she has always wanted…..

    I don’t know how on earth I can stand being yelled and sworn at, but this is my job and it’s part of the job, for which I am paid. We learn, but it takes time and it’s only human to get upset by it every now and then. Only one time that happened, when the customer hit too low below the belt and insinuated that I am stupid, among other things. It was hard to deal with that. What makes up for it all are the wonderful customers who come next, who thank us profusely for our problem-solving skills and say we’re the best.

    I ask myself why these customers don’t bother me, but an insulting remark from a complete stranger on Facebook really ticks me off. Why is that? Possibly the content, which is often an accusation of having a mental disorder.

    These stranger bullies on Facebook are doing nothing but projecting. I’ve been accused of paranoia by someone who, I later found out, was paranoid herself. I was accused of lying by liars, accused of abuse by a person who was abusive toward me (and I had not been toward her), and so on.

    I am not sure how to deal with the know-it-alls except that such attitudes tend to soften over time. You see a lot of that on Facebook.

    I wonder if those accusing public figures of mental illness are actually worried about their own “mental status,” whatever the heck that is. According to Paula Joan Caplan, most people want to be assured they are not mentally ill, that what they are feeling and experiencing is understandable.

    As customer service rep, I know not to accuse, nor comment on a person’s character. I try to tell customers their anger is understandable. If a customer receive the wrong item, I might joke about the time I received basketball shoes instead of running shoes (me? I’m too short!). Or if their item was lost I joke about how my BICYCLE got lost by UPS. That, to me, is so funny (did it roll out of their storage area?) that the customers usually relax and know they’re not going to be accused of dishonesty.

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  • One in 200 successfully get off disability. Congratulations! I am at that point myself, just waiting for the letter from Social Security telling me I no longer “qualify” as dis-abled. I plan to frame it!

    And you even make enough to support your kid and her mom. Wow, so cool. I hear you on NOT telling coworkers about your “dark past.” After all, as soon as you tell them they will never treat you the same.

    I was on it, including back pay, from age 25 on. Now I am 60 and finally back into the workplace.

    Looking back on my greatest accomplishments, I’d say getting off disability is very close to, if not at the top of that list.

    I earned my degrees while still in the System, only I really don’t know too many others who managed to pull that one off. In spite of the doc’s recommendation that I drop out. Oops.

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  • Stephen, I had one that cried in my presence and used me as her therapist, too. I had one ask me out on a date. I had two that slept during our sessions. Elsa Ronningstam would sleep for 10 minutes at a stretch while I sat there not knowing what to do. The only reason I ended up with her as a therapist was because my previous therapist insisted I see a psychologist and Ronningstam was the only one available. Since she specializes in stuff like sociopathy, she didn’t know what to do with me. She couldn’t help me with my ED at all. I saw her after ECT till I fired her. After seeing her for many months she called me up and said she had to have me come in so she could answer the questions on the disability form. I came in and she asked me “What are your symptoms?” I was shocked…oh wait, I’d already been shocked…either way, that did it for me. After eight or so months she didn’t even know why I was there.

    The abusive one insisted that I get force-weighed and regularly threatened me over my weight. I figure at that time it was her duty, or better yet, my psychiatrist’s, to inform me that I had kidney disease (functioning under 40%). The therapist knew but did not tell me. I have diabetes insipidus which means I need more water to survive. This therapist repeatedly accused me of “water-loading,” “water addiction,” and “abusing yourself with water.” Totally untrue! She even accused me of vomiting, which I have never done. I never learned how! She sent the cops to my house when I was sitting quietly, studying, at the library. She even called me and I happened to be in a location where I could pick up the phone there. I did, and she asked, “Where are you? The cops couldn’t find you at your apartment.” Huh? I was so scared to go home that day. She sectioned me another time, and then, claimed she had only sent the cops for a “wellness check” and claimed the cops mis-heard her and dragged me in anyway. I doubt it since a section involves paperwork they have to fill out w her. They HAD the papers! She regularly lied to me, then claimed I was the liar. I had to sign a seven-page contract with her, which she regularly changed to suit her whim. One time she came to the hospital where I had been imprisoned. I prepared for the meeting with “staff” and had a statement written out. My voice was not heard. The meeting was all about her! I was shocked. Of course with her narcissistic tendencies, that all makes sense. One time in “therapy” she said “bullshit” after everything I said. And more.

    I hated that she ran my life. I so badly wanted out after I realized this. I went through withdrawal after I quit her. Narcissistic abuse does that to you. You become isolated in the therapy and your other relationships weaken or end. During the abuse you might seem erratic or bizarre to others since you are being manipulated the whole time. I lost many friends that year. They never understood that the abuse caused it all. it took a long time to recover, and I was angry for a long time as part of the grieving process.

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  • I was overdiagnosed with debilitating arthritis which would have been debilitating if I had believe the diagnosis. I was told I wouldn’t walk or run again. I was overdiagnosed with a “severe and disabling personality disorder,” which oddly enough, disappeared once I recovered from electroshock. I gave up my driver’s license in part because of a false diagnosis of temporal lobe epilepsy. I have never had a seizure except when they gave me shock. I was overdiagnosed with rotting teeth which caused the surgeon to remove five of my teeth that shouldn’t have been removed. I was diagnosed with mania when what I was experiencing was trauma. I was diagnosed with the common cold when the real problem was that I had been raped. Recently, a telephone doctor insisted I go to the ER for a foot that was hurting, discolored and swollen. He claimed “It could be your heart.” Bullshit! I went to a podiatrist and it was tendinitis.

    We are so much smarter about our bodies than any doctor could possibly be. It is only common sense to realize this.

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  • Meghan, Something doesn’t sound right about this relationship at all. If this were a friendship, what kind of friend would this be? It isn’t helping you. It is hurting you. You need to end it and find good people in your life.

    I agree with the others. Often therapy does more harm than good. I had an abusive one I would love to write about here in an article but I don’t know if MIA would welcome that since so many subscribers are therapists…..Although I don’t see how relating a personal experience would steer anyone away from therapy…only from the abusive or harmful therapists. Sadly, there are far more out there than most people are willing to recognize. We do not know what happens behind closed doors, do we? In general I do not think going to therapy is a good idea.

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  • Steve, Typically, shrinks accuse parents of ED kids of “overinvolvement” or “enmeshment.” However, I know my own parents were not like that at all, yet I still got an ED. I think the theory is total bullshit and a way to blame parents for what is simply a dieting problem. I do know helicopter parents, though. I believe this is a cultural value. As I see it, some cultures value helipcopterism, while others shun it. The tendency goes in waves. It’ll be huge with one generation, then half a generation later it will swing the other way. This also goes with parental emotional sharing. Didn’t all of us who grew up kids of WWII parents experience a certain reserved attitude? Of my young girlfriends, only one said she was “close” to her mother. The rest of us had normal parents, or, as we saw it, normal for the day.

    Changing parental attitudes affected me when I went to work as a nanny. The dad had a totally different attitude about parenting than I had ever seen. He insisted his way was the only right way, which I found offensive and actually an offense to my upbringing. I had to put up with it, though. I was being paid to do so.

    We have to be open-minded to different parenting styles. I don’t think there’s a one right way. We may see parents in another culture in a negative way, but I think we have to accept these differences instead of being overly critical.

    For instance, some parents of cultures that aren’t mine seem too rushed and pushy with their kids. I hate hearing a parent tell their kid to hurry up constantly. However, if I had been raised like that I bet I’d see it as normal and even acceptable.

    My parents used spanking. Most did that I knew of. Many used a belt. My dad insisted on not doing that. I wondered if he was weird or maybe one of those hippie pacifists. I don’t believe spanking harmed me in the least, not that I would advocate it nowadays. They did not shame us or verbally abuse us. That made the difference.

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  • Me too. It is lonely because if I share I risk wrecking my social life with whomever I share with. I have, in my new life, with mixed results. I have had to end relationships with people who hear my story and then act afraid of me. I generally just cut it off. I have to constantly fight off the urge to tell my story because doing so is a natural inclination as an activist. I feel that telling it is powerful and a story communicates to others. However, the results can be disastrous if they assume you’re psychotic and won’t believe otherwise.

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  • Thanks for debunking this study, Bob. You would think people would figure that one out. However, many are likely too drugged or shocked to think straight anymore. These drugs have made their way into the medicine cabinets of so many people at this point. Back in 1980 I barely knew what mental illness was and I had never heard of psych drugs, even with my college education. Is the trend beginning to turn as more and more are harmed? Or do they have more tricks up their sleeves?

    Maybe it’s about time we shouted “Bah Humbug.” If we are ever heard.

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  • You might believe me, Cassie, but most people don’t, they woul+d rather call me disease-names then ever admit the therapist might have been wrong.

    As for “good therapist, bad therapist…” This is a pitfall that many fall into. They think that there are good doctors and bad ones, and sadly they are totally missing the point. You can’t divide them up that way because doing so makes it look like therapy and western medicine are really okay, and the bad apples are people we should just dismiss as deviant. Even the best therapy is based on keeping people sick, needy, and teaching them dependency. Even my very best of therapist prolonged my mental patient status. Being nice means the patient keeps coming back. Being cruel might send them away traumatized but which is really worse? If you have a bad one it might help you realize the System is not a very good place to go if you are suffering. Not unless you want to get more disabled.

    Anyone can submit to Forced Psychiatry, which is anthology I am producing and here is the website: http://forcedpsychiatry.com. Submissions are open now. Please go take a look and spread the word. This will be a published book available on Amazon and pseudonyms are allowed. Anyone affected by force, coercion, lockup, etc, can contribute, including families affected. (Yes, I will be contributing.)

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  • Cassie, I will jump at any opportunity to tell my story, but in this case it’s not exactly relevant and clutters up the muck of stories that Carey will receive. Imipramine isn’t an SSRI and is rarely used anymore. I didn’t do anything violent or horrible. I only had thoughts and feelings and mostly I kept them to myself. To add to all that, I had been abused by my therapist. It wasn’t the drug alone that produced the rage. I know in my heart that her abuse made it all ten times worse. Think : narcissism and you will get the idea. It was very hard to get over it.

    We humans love to find easy answers but the truth is it wasn’t just the drug. It was her. But who will believe me?

    What I really want to do is to write a piece about what it is like to be abused by your therapist. I hope it truly offends all the therapists out there, any of them who assume all therapists are great and wonderful. She had a lot of credentials and a must have a lengthy and involved resume. Funny how that means nothing and doesn’t tell you a thing about what happened inside that office. I can still picture it, with the cushiony couches, that horrible potpourri smell, the fucking stuffed animals I hated, those scarves we were supposed to play with like they were children’s toys, the waiting room, everything.

    Sometimes on my way out of Walmart these days I see a vending machine full of stuffed animals and I feel sick seeing it. It’s so sad when I see mental patients buying them there, putting dollar after dollar of their disability check into the machine.

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  • Eric, Thank you for this freaky and haunting story. I was confused all the way through. Editor of what? I finally deduced that this was some kind of college publication. On the whole I would have appreciated a little more clarity throughout the piece. Of course I realize you have to preserve Ann’s anonymity but you can do that without being vague or ambiguous.

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  • Cassandra, that’s an amazing letter. I am glad you wrote.

    That said, I don’t think I will be sending a letter. I don’t have anything constructive to add. First of all, SSRI drugs had no obvious effect on me, neither positive or negative. The SNRI (or whatever) drug Effexor caused insomnia and binge eating. I did have a very negative “effect” from Imipramine, and also a positive “effect.” Imipramine stopped binge eating for me, but unfortunately it put me into a suicidal rage.

    There’s a huge difference between feeling rageful and actually taking action by doing something violent or destructive. I didn’t act on the feelings. I came close but did not make an attempt. I have no physical evidence that I went through all that, no obvious damages except lost relationships.

    I was prescribed Imipramine from Nov 2011 until Feb 2012. I was suffering after I was taken off because the idiot who took me off tapered in three days. I experienced no relief from the rage and very bad binge eating that went on for another year. The rage subsided gradually but it took a long time. My way of expressing myself was mistaken for a mental disorder, which caused further harm, but that’s all over now.

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  • I would not go to one that decided I had any mental disorder, no matter what kind of doc it was. My current naturopath says “depression” but stresses that it’s not a disease but a way people sometimes feel, certainly not a condition one has in one’s character makeup, but a transient and very understandable human way of feeling. Since I am rarely depressed the topic doesn’t come up at all with him. If any doc decides I have mental issues I run away very fast. Any kind of mental disease or label.

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  • JanCarol I have never heard of a “natural” doc who used psych labels. Any of the ones I have consulted steer clear of such medicalizing of normal behavior. Isn’t anyone a little nervous when they get poked and prodded? I have stopped going to docs who do that, “natural” or not. I refuse to give them my business. BTW, life coaches shouldn’t label people but the majority of them do.

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  • I would write this letter but as a survivor the effect of these drugs on me in terms of making me violent was minimal. In 2012 I experienced a really bad “effect” from Imipramine, though. It lasted long after the drug was stopped but I am fine now. A lot of people called me “dangerous” but that was hogwash and just passed on from doc to doc that was unsupported by historical facts.

    My writing endangers psychiatry, so in that sense, I hope to be lethal in other writings that I do. Dangerous, scary, a menace of course.

    I know people, fellow pts, who were made manic by drugs, but I don’t know if I could make a strong enough statement as witness alone.

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  • Psych is not always summoned for that reason. Some of us went to therapists for other reasons, not “Objectionable behavior.” Some, say, had depression they had never told anyone about, that hasn’t manifested itself in outward behavior. My own reasons are included here. I did have an ED, but no one had noticed the weight loss because I hid it well, and my school work, though it faltered momentarily, on the whole remained outstanding. When I revealed to others that I had gone to shrinks, and had even resorted to a psychiatrist, people I knew such as faculty and classmates were shocked.

    I wasn’t sent to therapy by anyone but me. My choice. Only I didn’t realize the rabbit hole I was getting myself into. Within months I was converted, even prior to taking any pills at all. I was talking their symptom/disease language, knew the slogans, and had given up my music career. It happened in a flash to observers.

    Looking back, I should have seen a nutritionist, hopefully an alternative one. These were not available in 1981, and none of the therapists knew anything about ED. This is sadly a very common experience in my generation.

    So I was not “sent” to a shrink and nothing about my behavior prior to entering the system was bothersome to anyone.

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  • I don’t see self-publishing as something I would “resort to,” but rather, it is my first choice. It not a cop-out. Self-pub means you take charge of what happens. Times have changed and many authors are choosing this route over traditional publishers. I have written ten books and published two. My next book will be self-pub, my first choice, because of my past experience and what I saw my colleagues go through with publishers.

    You have to decide. Do you want fancy, or do you want to spread the word to many people and potentially save lives? Why do you want to see the book in print?

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  • ARe you kidding? Profit. Fame. Attention. Money. It’s her identity, her “brand.” Miss Bipolar. Without it, who would she be? She doesn’t even know who she is.

    They used to tell us that about eating disorders, in the ED nuthouses. That part was very true. ED did become an identity for many people, me too, and you start to wonder who you would be without it. You get scared to let it go, even though you know you can, since without it you fear you are nothing. I am wondering, though, if telling us this, just rubs it in and magnifies the problem. Because they’d say it almost like a self-fulfilling prophesy. Just like they told so many of us, the day we left, “You’ll be back.”

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  • Okay, I understand. My fellow graduates have gone with traditional publishers with mixed results. I would be very careful. I fell for Chipmunka and that was of course a ripoff. My book was my masters thesis and sold, in four years, maybe four copies total. It was about the most demeaning and shameful thing that ever happened to me, mostly because I supported my fellow graduates and on my tiny disability pay, purchased their books just to make them look good, even reviewed them. They never returned the favor, and even stopped speaking to me when I ditched the System.

    I would never go with a supposed traditional publisher again, after seeing friends of mine also ripped off by other publishers that weren’t even scams. A really good one will get you readings, get you on TV, get you into the papers, etc. So with a decent publisher, which even the best of writers rarely find, you won’t have to pay a publicist separately. But that’s like finding a needle in a haystack.

    To me, giving away my writing for free and hearing a “Thank you” from someone means so much more than having a big name publisher and risking having all my books sitting in my basement collecting dust. Any day.

    I’m not trying to say your book won’t sell, but it’ll be harder than you think it’ll be. A lot of people just give lip service and you can make them promise up and down, send them links, send excerpts, and they will not follow through, not share on social media, not help you out in any way, and in the end, tell you to get lost. My best friend, well…ex-best friend, refused to read even the sample and told me so.That summarized the entirety of what I went through. After that, after six years of grad school, after that joyous moment of my thesis passing, and even getting a standing ovation at graduation, after rewriting like mad, that’s what I got. Humiliation.

    Nov 2014 when my publisher wrote to me and said my book had sold zero copies in the past year, I went down the beach near where I lived in South America, me and my dog, and I let myself bawl. No one heard. Then I went back home and went on with my life.

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  • Ron, just wondering, how can a person want involuntary treatment? Agreeably, no lockup joint is voluntary even if you asked to go there, since you can’t voluntarily leave. So anyone who claims they are voluntary in a lockup joint is fooling themselves.

    Secondly, that I know of, a court order cannot be legally done to person who has been willingly going to treatment. If walk in there and you do not resist, then the court order can’t be done to hold you there. They can only commit if they perceive you as an escape risk or they think you are resisting. There’s a fine line here.

    For example, I was unconscious (and in fact, my heart wasn’t beating) when they claim they put a Sec 12 on me back in Massachusetts. Now I don’t know if my records are accurately written, since I am positive that they couldn’t have legally obtained a Sec 12 on me while I was in kidney failure. Not that such illegal shit can’t be pulled on an MP. After all, who cares about us? We’re worthless scum to them.

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  • Wow, I love this story. Thank you for sharing that! It’s funny that only an hour ago I was visiting Drugwatch. I love that you can look up lawsuits there.

    I also had panic attacks, but only for a year, and that was some 20 years ago, not long after shock treatments. The panic attacks stopped as mysteriously as they came, around the same time the cognitive impairment wore off.

    I imagine you know a wealth of information about drugs! I have been looking for lithium lawsuits, hope to find some to help me feel inspired. Thanks again.

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  • Irit, I have an MFA in Creative Writing and in my opinion you should self-pub. I am not suggesting this as a shortcut, but because when you publish, the publisher will reap the profits and make decisions you may not like. I would self-pub and make the book available as an ebook (Kindle/Nook, etc) in addition to hard copy.

    I would hire several readers prior to getting it into print. You want someone to do a “reading” and you want someone to do a closer, fine read, which is more like what the proofreader does. The more pairs of eyes, the better. The actual proofreader should be someone who does this detail work specifically as a profession. I do readings of anyone’s “madness memoir” entirely free. I do not proofread (not for money, anyway) because I suck at it. I will do a reading with margin comments of the entire manuscript free of charge.

    I see no need for a publisher. Times have changed, even since I got my MFA. For sure. You will need someone to design the cover who knows how to do covers (might ask around here or try Fiver), and you can buy the ISBN and file copyright yourself. I would suggest publishing directly to Kindle. They have a special service for this that is possible to access in Canada.
    You can contact me at julie at juliegreene dot net

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  • I would have said that, or, “Or,”…… Either one of these would have worked. Still, I’d hate to have my comment taken down because I neglected to use a quantifying preface to my sentence. Had I left it out, Dear Steve the Sheriff, would it be implied? Say, if I said, “Group One tells Group Three….” Actually I wouldn’t have said that anyway. It is not universally true.

    There are some that insist you have great parents and can’t understand why you run away, haven’t spoken for a month, or act out in school. Must be a disorder, couldn’t be his/her home life…..

    Can I generalize by saying that psychiatry is rarely on the mark? Even if we think they are at the time, or, are totally convinced that they are right, ten or 20 years down the line…if we aren’t dead, we very well may not only have changed our minds, but regret that we believed them, and regret the consequences.

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  • Or, in some cases, Group One tells Group Three, “Your childhood sucked. We’re better than your own Mommy and Daddy. We’re the new and better parents!” They say this to anyone in Group Three, twisting around any type of childhood narrative, good and bad, to fit Group One’s version. This leaves Group Two wondering what they did wrong. Due to Group One’s blameful attitude, and high level of authority and esteem in society, Group Two may then begin to wonder about every little nit-picky thing and wonder if THAT was the one thing that caused their loved one’s supposed “mental illness.” Group One blames Groups Two and Three for all of Group One’s subsequent errors, mainly because Group One refuses to admit fault and refuses to apologize. Group One continues to do great harm, and then, calls that harm “mental illness,” attributing it to either the moral shortcomings and character defects of Group Three themselves, or the past failings of Group Two that nurtured, raised, and cared for their loved ones.

    Okay, is this a “generalization”? Or a retelling of a familiar tale?

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  • Brett, I don’t see Frank’s reaction, stating he was “insulted,” as an attack on any person. I see it as a reaction. Look at the wording.

    “I’m insulted.”

    Now, in shrink talk (forgive me, everyone, please…), note that Frank has made an “I” statement here. He used the word “insulted” as a descriptor. It appears as a verb, but the usage of that verb is as an adjective. The adjective usage describes Frank’s thoughts or feelings, as “I am” (you can say just as easily, “I am sad,” or, “I am surprised”). The word “insulted” is clearly not a descriptor of you, nor of the proposal, nor of those that designed it, but of his own initial personal reaction. Note that what follows in his original post continues along the same lines.

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  • out, I put mine there almost as a joke because my degree is not in a mental health field. It’s in creative writing, which earns me no money at all. I figure if they can shove their letters around, why shouldn’t I?

    After all, I got my masters without their permission and in fact, against doctor permission, and in spite of all their predictions that I could not do it.

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  • Brett I am surprised you didn’t know what I was referring to when I think I made it clear. You cannot make claim that there’s a double standard here at MIA between survivors and “professionals” when we have two groups that aren’t of equal power in society, aren’t of equal wealth, and by all means, one group has more authority in most spheres than the other.

    Here, though, while you seem to demand and equal playing field, it simply isn’t possible when we are talking about extreme harm and traumatic experiences done by psych AND THERAPY the likes of which you cannot even fathom.

    None of us are insulting you personally. I love taking jabs at the psych profession, I repeat, profession, and yes I love to bash therapy, too. Not therapists, or at least not you since I do not know you, but therapy as a concept.

    I can talk about the abusive therapy experience I had all I want and in living color, too. I AM FREE NOW! I don’t see why you should be insulted by that. It should not have happened. I am only trying to warn others of the red flags.

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  • Psych is a profession. Survivor is not.

    Psych is a corrupt profession. Since survivors on our own aren’t a profession, or a union, and we don’t have the power to put you anyone else behind locked doors, I’d say that’s an unfair statement, Brett.

    Please read Steve’s “sheriff” article again. Tell me how badly the psych profession, or, say, you in particular have been harmed by survivors. Have your rights been taken away? Have we put you out of work? For how long? What about your kidneys? Have any one of us here destroyed your kidneys?

    I just filed my taxes (and paid them) or the first time in 37 years. 37 years out of work. Can you top that?

    So it’s not okay to occasionally “insult” your profession?

    Okay, having some fun here.

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  • I am not sure what we’re supposed to object to in our letters to Carey. I have yet to jump on the bandwagon. I can’t, in all fairness and accuracy even mention “biological psychiatry” since there’s nothing “biological” about psychiatry. Where is the biology behind their Bible, the DSM? No biology there. No x-rays, no blood chemistry either. Psych is a hate movement, it is eugenics-based, it takes away people’s rights. It splits up couples and families, even encourages families to “disengage for their own good.” What biology is used in the courtroom when they take away your kids or take away your freedom? Psych causes death by suicide, homicide, incarcerates millions of people who have not committed crimes. What is biological about that? Where’s the biology in restraints? Seclusion? Forced unemployment? Zapping people’s brains with voltage till they can’t think anymore? Wouldn’t that be classified as torture, not medicine? I see no biology here.

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  • Who is up for a PROTEST there? Right there outside that conference at Brigham and Women’s in Boston? Ready? I will be the first to sign up! I know one of those docs! He falsely dxed me with temporal lobe epilepsy! I do not have it and never did. I suspected as such, and stopped seeing him with no ill consequences. Later I found out that he is an overdiagnoser. In my opinion, he was also a misogynist.

    He tried to convince me that the devastating cognitive effects I had from ECT were from my periods. Oh please. I would like to surprise him and tell him I am still alive, (sorry dude).

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  • I have been accidentally put on the “provider” mailing list for this and it’s annoying. Whereas I did attend a training for life coaching last January, I made the decision not to pursue it as a career for various reasons that came quite clear to me as there is too much corruption in the profession. I don’t see how a person can become an MH professional, even one that isn’t called that but really IS that (let’s be realistic here and call it what it is!), and still maintain a clear conscience. You really have to walk a fine line. My own classmates, fellow grads of the program I was in, were already talking about how to charge clients as much as possible as soon as class ended.

    I was in a meeting in Denver with the ISEPP group where this project, or a similar one, was discussed. The discussion went nowhere and at the end of the meeting I had no clue whether the plan was on or not. I hated the rude eye-rolling on the part of some of the participants.

    TO THE ORGANIZERS OF THE Denver meeting: IF you invite so-called survivors to your meetings, then at least do so because you value our input as equal to yours, not because you feel obligated to include us.

    Darius, Your comment caught my eye. The idea of categorizing the responses into these distinct groups turns me off as the effect of psychiatry and it’s little sister that also can cause great harm by its harmful use of categories, psychotherapy, are not only on the individual victim/patient, but will affect the patient’s family, neighborhood, workplace, school, and historically, for years or decades to come. The categories are limiting.

    In brief, psychiatry makes us all sick.

    What is said in the article (here I am paraphrasing) that psych is something used to control people whose behavior is somehow objectionable is too narrow a statement, and perhaps extreme as well. Many, if not most of us were okay, by that I do not mean perfect, but just fine the way we were prior to our initiation. Afterward, we were so much worse off that we were branded as MP’s for life, still in the System or marginalized in the role of outcasts. This might cause our family to become an Outcast Family, branded as sick, wrong, deranged by psych, especially if our families don’t kick us out quickly enough.

    We can have category #5, #6, #7, too. I knew a janitor who cleaned a psych unit. The janitor tried to blow the whistle and then was incarcerated along with the rest of us, effectively silenced, forcibly unemployed at that point, life ruined.

    When will it stop?

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  • Yes, that is exactly what psychiatry does to creative people. It sabotages. You are a writer? Poof! We don’t allow that here. You compose music? Poof! What did you want to do that for, anyway? You’re a computer programmer? Isn’t that overly ambitious? Medical student? Why don’t you think more realistically! RN? Why don’t you volunteer in the flower shop? Anything they could say to insult us, demean us with their low expectations of us…they would do. They hated our genius and would do anything to deny it. This especially rang true for me in April 2013 when my psychiatrist told me she intended to drug me till I was incapable of writing. Why? Because my writing exposed human rights abuses at the institution she worked for, MGH, medical capital of Boston.

    I will never forget that. In a nutshell, that one appointment told me what the past three decades of psych had been all about. The one thing I knew was that I had to leave. I did.

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  • If anything, his childhood was a springboard to his long and amazing career as entertainer and performer.

    I see my own life that way. I grew up as the shortest kid in the class, wore glasses, was Jewish, and a whole lot of other reasons why the other kids teased me. I certainly don’t look back on that with horror, but with amusement. It made me who I am, and I am not only proud of that, but thankful.

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  • Damn this is beautifully written. I wish the part about his childhood was not included, though. I felt the description of Parkinson’s, that is, the present that he was dealing with, was plenty enough. I wish MIA would include more articles like this one. I enjoyed the empathetic tone of the writer toward the sufferer, his ability to put himself into the center of the protagnist’s shoes, to feel what he felt, or suggest what he may have felt, though we do not know. The idea of “mental illness” is so dismissive. It shuts down, it does not listen, it does not feel.

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  • Actually, Steve, they thought “individualized treatment” meant giving everyone the precise same meal plan but allowing each person choices, say, a choice of type of cookies they wanted. Or a choice between cherry yogurt or vanilla. Huge variation and individualized treatment. Never mind a few of us might end up with an uncooked egg hard-boiled egg, just for variety’s sake. This, of course, led to some challenges since we were required to finish everything on our trays. What is the moral here? Everyone is different, right?

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  • Hi Vanilla, I don’t know why you said that. Having been name-called for years, that is, called “not even human,” called “off her meds,” called, “Needs to be locked up,” called, “Someone needs to take her dog away and put her dog in a shelter,” called, “She used to be nice but now…” called, “Horrible,” called, “She’s paranoid about the meds,” called, “Why does she talk about rights all the time…” called, “I am afraid to talk to her…” called, “We need to lock our doors, don’t answer the phone because it might be her….” called “dangerous…” Do I need to go on? This is by people who once cared for me, by people who were friends of mine. This is how I was treated by those that once loved me. This is how I was seen by those that had cared for me like I was a sister, by those that had protected me and watched over me and seen me as a comrade. A club member, a pal. By those that later called the cops on me. For my protection. Claiming they were saving me. And themselves. In the name of some disease. So?

    Survivors have been silenced in other venues (such as the NYT) for years, while the NYT upholds the voices of spouses and parents, as we know. Never mind the Boston Globe and others. You get your chance with NAMI.

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  • Oldhead, To address what you said, I could add that my mom paid thousands of dollars for my education, my bachelor’s degree and masters from esteemed colleges, that is, a BFA in Writing, Literature, and Publishing (which I earned with high honors), and an MFA in Creative Writing. My masters degree was published not long after I graduated. These creative writing fields are not the same as journalism, rarely appreciated and pay so little we often lose money just to get published. However, it’s a skill, one I highly value, one that I have used over, first to keep me alive while incarcerated, then, to describe in my blog what happened, then, to blow the whistle when I didn’t know what else to do. Then, of course, I used the same skill to work through the trauma that resulted from the human rights abuses done to me. Now I keep writing to tell others to stay away from psych, and because to me it is a moral duty to keep writing and telling anyone whom I can reach. Why? Because I can.

    It does have a lot to do with education. That got paid for. I am even embarrassed to say so. But I love my mom, too.

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  • Out, I think so, too. Someone figured out why pyramid schemes invariably fail. There’s a simple mathematical reasoning here. I researched this after I was involved in an employment scam earlier this year. How many people can you sucker into buying something overpriced and worthless? How many of your pals, soon to be ex-pals, did you coerce into it? And how many are now screaming their stories of financial ruin to the world?

    The lithium generation is either dead now or very sorry. The Prozac generation is aging, with early dementia clouding their thinking, but underneath, you bet they are pissed. If you were poly-drugged, your parents have outlived you, and their tragic story of your shortened life is hitting the news stands right now.

    If many more die, we will run out of burial space.

    It very well might not be long.

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  • I will stop commenting on MIA as soon as the “likes” policy is in effect. I would suggest that anyone else do this, too. Please do continue to speak out as much as always, but do this outside of MIA commentary. Do it in your own blogs and on your own pages. You can always post a link to your commentary here. If it is your page, MIA can’t edit it, ban it, or try to moderate you. Do follow legal protocol…don’t plagiarize and don’t commit what would be legally considered defamation (but DO tell the truth!). I have been blogging unabashedly and rather prolifically for ages…now I will voicing my opinions and thoughts exclusively off MIA.

    http://juliemadblogger.com/wp/2018/08/08/changes-to-the-mia-site-and-my-commentary/

    And that’s that. Goodbye.

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  • Okay, then, my solution is as follows. I will stop commenting here. Instead, I’ll comment in my own blog where I don’t have to worry about moderation and a popularity contest. I may, or may not, provide a link here. I am not leaving a comment knowing it will be liked or not liked, where it will stacked up with other comments and ranked, no matter where it ends up in the pile. I don’t want that. Yet I will still be able to comment if I wish. I would suggest anyone can do this via their Facebook or other pages they have.

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  • James Moore, how can you say I’m being unfair? Who is in power here? Who has the power to delete comments or ban someone? Ahem!

    I have not commented in the NYT. I commented once, an antipsych stance in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and my comments have been held for moderation ever since.

    Now talk about marginalization! How many of us have been banned from online communities because we stated the FACT that we were harmed by psych? Just saying that will cause you to lose friends, be called dangerous, called delusional and paranoid in online communities. I have lost so, so many friends who decided I was too delusional to deal with, or too disordered, or “off meds…” Whatever. Marginalized, blocked, silenced. Banned from speaking at a conference after I’d already been accepted. Kicked out, refused a blogging job that I was well-qualified for because they were “afraid the writing would cause people to avoid treatment.” And yet…this for telling the truth, nothing more. Banned because I choose to not have a therapist. You wanna hear about years and years of that? I can keep writing, you know.

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  • James Moore, the “likes” system wrecks other community sites. Ask anyone who has been through bullying on Facebook. Facebook is junk because it turned into a popularity contest. It is not a safe place to say much of anything anymore except to show off a pic of your pet.

    Can you say which other sites use the “likes” system and it’s great and wonderful, adding to the site in some fashion?

    As a professional writer, I can say with confidence that boiling down your opinion to a black-and-white like or dislike can’t possibly reflect with any accuracy your real thoughts on the piece. Even a “rating” via number of stars is too much of a generalization.

    This is what’s going to happen. People will “like” the comments made by people they like or people they’re friends with. The comments made by people who just so happen to have writing ability (based on education…which many are deprived of…). Comments written by those who do not have access to a full-size keyboard, or are at a library or in a facility where time is limited and comments are written fast with no chance to edit or proofread will get fewer likes. This is not fair!

    And i’m sitting here writing from home on a full-sized keyboard….so I realize this.

    Why is MIA marginalizing those who are already marginalized? Ahhh…the segregation and stratification continues…..

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  • No way James Moore! Other online communities are full of popularity contests, hurt feelings, and bullying. Why imitate what they’re doing wrong, just because they’re doing it? The likes part about Facebook is one of the main reasons I quit.

    I have been bullied on Facebook more than once, on the regular area and also in specialized areas (pages and various clubs on there).

    MIA is the one place where I haven’t been bullied. MIA is the one place where I can say “this event happened” and I won’t be called dangerous or paranoid just for telling the truth, here and in my personal blog.

    If you go forward with the likes plan, you are silencing those of us who need a place to talk about what happened.

    Please stop this idea in its tracks. PLEASE!

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  • Absolutely, s_randolph. How does one define force? If you lie to a person, which I saw more often than not, deceive them into conceding to hospitalization, is that force? I think so! I have heard professionals say to patients, “Only a few days,” or heard patients tell me their therapists or doctors said that. This was not usually the case. Some stayed a month or longer. I knew many who planned for those “few days” and ended up forced out of work and out of their homes.

    What about the deceptive advertising these places spew out. The pictures of the “compassionate” nurses and people being listened to. This rarely pans out as the ads state. Why don’t these ads say something like….

    Don’t worry, we will keep you so long as we profit. If we decide we don’t like you, we don’t discriminate here…you get the same restraints, isolation, and needles as anyone else. You can be assured that even though you are not a cookie, you will get cookie-cutter treatment that is state-of-the-art. Even our shock machines are state-of-the-art, the authentic replica of machines they had decades ago, like an old antique car. Makes us lots of money (but HIPAA keeps us from revealing just how much). You may or may not have diabetes, but we’ll continue to compare you to a diabetic even though it’s totally illogical. No fear, you will get diabetes anyway from our drugs…so it’s all logical…sorta…and cozy here. Check out our lovely grounds here…these are to impress the visitors, as you’re not likely to see daylight for a long time. Maybe you can get a window view…if you can see between the thick bars we put there to keep the place secure…after all, psych doesn’t want you getting out and revealing to the world that you’re better off without us.

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  • knowledge I witnessed a man being sent away, right in front of me, who said over and over he was “going to kill himself” right away, he said. The man was begging to be hospitalized. They told him he wasn’t sick enough. This was total bullshit, of course.

    I don’t know the real reason. Was he a frequent flyer and maybe they had stopped listening a while back? Was this insurance? I actually don’t think insurance was the issue. I suspect it was the fact that he was a wheelchair user. That presented a challenge for local “units” as many, as I recall back in Boston, were not wheelchair accessible at all or presented a safety risk…for the unit, of course. Or maybe they were afraid of an ADA-style legal issue. This poor guy was literally bawling on his way out. Shit.

    I don’t think such places are good for anyone, including the staff, but as it was his only option (that he could ascertain) they should have honored his request. The options, out of their grab bag of traditional “treatment,” (such as weekly therapy with a brand new T he had never met before, and that appt wasn’t for a number of days…) were not going to work, which he pointed out, due to the immediacy of the situation. Back then, there were no peer respites around, either. He just didn’t know what to do.

    Likely he really needed someone to listen, which occasionally happens in lockup, not often, though. That instead of the degrading treatment he got at that ER. Boston Medical. 2011, July. Saw it all.

    My fear at that time was that he would kill himself just to prove what assholes they were, or to prove them wrong. I wonder if he is reading here. I hope he is. Hello, dude!

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  • Many do not, never had the chance to learn, or were told they were incapable or were discouraged in some way.

    When I was at a clubhouse back in fall of 1997, which lasted all of maybe three days, I asked if I could use the computer and teach myself. They told me I wasn’t “ready.”

    In December of that same year, I managed to get a computer that could get online, that had Win95. I taught myself everything I know about computers. Now I have a job working as independent contractor that requires extensive computer skills. Not ready? Geez.

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  • Another thing….Many simply do not have time to comment. Was this taken into account? If you have two jobs and three kids will you be addicted to MIA the way some people seem to be? If you are stuck in day treatment all day, do you have time to comment? What about those who never learned to type, or find typing, or writing itself, too difficult to deal with?

    As one who is keyboard-verbose I am well aware that not everyone is.

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  • I want to thank MIA for improving the search function, as I would agree that it doesn’t pull up the articles I need even though I know they are there!

    I already have the ability to not read comments! We all do! It’s called x-ing out the tab entirely, or just scrolling to the bottom of the comments and adding my own. I do this when there are a hundred comments and I cannot, realistically, read every single one! I tend to avoid those with too many ALL CAPS, or ones that just go on and on, which there aren’t too many.

    I enjoy comments that talk about dark subjects, or, in other forums, might be labeled “negative.” Negativity-bashing is bullshit, because most of the bare, naked truth about psych and lockup certainly stinks. Much of our best and most powerful literature is dark and wry, or doesn’t end happily. I love humorous comments, too. I also love hearing how people escape or turn their lives around post-psych.

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  • Pleb, That has been my experience submitting to MIA also. You are not alone. I have sent articles that sat unresponded to for a month, then, when I inquired, somehow, interestingly, whatever I sent was mysterious “lost.” Really? Once or twice is believable but the number of times this happened makes me wonder. So I resent. That happened more often than not.

    Now if I were a MH professional, or ran some well-known organization, or was lucky enough to win some huge grant….Then of course things would be different.

    I think MIA should have a blind submissions policy. This is the best way to be non-discriminatory. Blind submissions means that the editors do not know the name of the person who sent the piece in when they receive it. They will not know the social rank (ahem!) either. Almost all online mags have this policy, and in fact, they tend to be rather strict about that. I agree with whoever said there’s an elite crowd here. I don’t think it’s right at all.

    Some will comment more than others. Also, some are more expressive at the keyboard than others. Some have only cellular phones to type on, and this will limit their ability to comment. Some access this site from libraries, where, sometimes, computer time is limited. A few access it from facilities, with staff glaring at them the whole time (Hey, what site is that?…).

    I happen to write a lot. This is just the way I am, and also, I type very fast. I wish I could type faster so I could get more words out every day. If I could spend a weekend not sleeping and only writing, I would do that, gladly, but it’s not practically feasible. Working full-time now at a job doesn’t stop me from writing, thank goodness! Hope my ex-shrink isn’t reading this!

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  • Kindred, I agree. I am less likely to comment here if it turns into a popularity contest a la Facebook. Disgusting! Terrible!

    Say what? Ranked? Oh, like some people are naturally superior to others….Really? Then what is that saying about anyone else? Isn’t that exactly what dx does? Those who don’t win the popularity contest are going to be thus silenced, because they lose visibilty. This is bullshit.

    If any survivors (or those that love them) reading this want to have their voices heard regarding the use of forced psychiatry (this includes “hospitalization,” drugging, anything one was deceptively coerced into, shock, etc) please submit to the anthology, Forced Psychiatry. I am taking submissions now.

    I do not take research papers. There are plenty of those to go around. I am looking for vivid details and description. Does not have to have a “happy ending.”

    Check out the site: http://forcedpsychiatry.com

    Works that are accepted will be compiled into a published book.

    No outside funding! No grants, no paid publicists, no hidden agenda, etc. Just me trying to do good in the world and give people a voice.

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  • Another sad example of how these professionals assume they have power to diagnose and determine some are mentally inferior. Note the language used in the quoted passages, the use of “we” when describing those who diagnose.

    “We,” therefore, does not refer to the entire human population, but a group of elites who claim they know better than the rest of humanity. Apparently they hold so much power that they are the authorities on who is suffering and who isn’t. Baloney.

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  • I don’t understand why the writer of this article, who holds a PhD, thinks he is such an authority that he can call his male protagonist “healthy” and his female protagonist “maladaptive.” Whereas I don’t particularly worry which example was male and which was female (though I did take note of this!), I am concerned that a PhD’ed person seems wield such power over others, in particular, children and their families. Diagnosing is the act of proclaiming, YOU ARE something. “You, Miss, are maladaptive and you, Sir, are okay.” Thus, this determination, made by a PhD who has seized power by diagnosing, separates the okay from the not-okay, splitting off a group of not-okays so that they can be “treated,” marginalized, ghettoized, imprisoned, or killed.

    I am yet one more person who was labeled manic every time I aced a class, every time I was working hard on a college project, during National Novel Writing Month, and pretty much any time the MH professional found it convenient. They pathologized high intelligence, love of academics, desire to get somewhere in life, and any form of activism as a disease. Why? They had to uphold the label I had already been given. They had to uphold their own power. Some of them, I believe, regularly did this now and then at random just so that they stay in business.

    Last time I saw any type of doctor was right after my cataract surgery. After I explained to him how I had to adapt to being able to see again, which I must add is not at all easy, he smiled at me and said, “You have just the right attitude. Keep it up.”

    Had a doctor, even an eye doctor, who saw “bipolar” in my chart examined me at that time, under the exact same circumstances, he would have demeaned me as “overly ambitious” and cautioned me to take things one step at a time.

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  • Steve, I wrote to you privately.

    I, for one, steer away from generalizations, although I am guilty of doing it just like many others. A sweeping generalization undermines the credibility of the speaker. If you say, “Everyone,” you’d better mean it, or someone who isn’t included in that “everyone” won’t be able to relate. If you say, “All psychiatrists are evil,” to me, that sounds far less credible than giving specific examples of gruesome incidents you witnessed. Using description and vivid, gripping detail (without exaggeration) is more powerful than a generalization, and reaches people where it matters — right in their hearts.

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  • Cults and psychiatry use the exact same brainwashing techniques. When I encountered the Moonies I was traveling alone far away from where I lived. Isolation is a very effective technique. The Moonies took us away from society and we stayed a summer-camp-type situation. You really couldn’t leave on your own because it was out in the country on deserted roads. You cannot leave a nuthouse, either. You are separated from family and friends and they don’t let you freely communicate with the outside world.

    Real brainwashing coerces using kindness. The Moonies claimed the “loved” me but really they had another agenda. Psych, namely therapists, act all nice but their idea is to “change the patient’s thinking.” We are coerced into higher levels of “care” via kindness and deception. We may be told “It’s only a few days,” which is bullshit, or told, “Don’t worry, you are a voluntary patient,” and you aren’t. You are pampered and told how badly you “deserve a rest.”

    Conversion is the goal in both situations, that is, replacing the victim’s current ideology with a new one, theirs. After that, it’s a real feat to undo it.

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  • ADHD diagnosed people are used to the stimulants, and have built a tolerance. There’s the difference, since non-ADHD students use them only occasionally, so they would be more sensitive to them.

    According to a personal trainer I knew, some runners benefit from drinking a small amount of coffee prior to a run. You would have to time it just right. What happens is that while running, the caffeine level will suddenly drop, which they term “coffee poop-out.” I experienced it once and then, learned. The other drawback to drinking coffee, for some runners, is that it can cause a stomach ache.

    The trainer told me to drink it only if I find it beneficial, but not too early prior to running. I find that I really have to start my run within 45 minutes or it is going to poop out. I can take it or leave it these days.

    To coffee or not to coffee is a major debate among runners, just like the argument over stretching. I do not do the latter, since either before or after running I am likely to overstretch a muscle.

    That said, Runner’s High beats stimulants any day!

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  • Paula Caplan made a great point. I would love to explore this study further, but I ask, what happens if you perceive yourself as mentally ill, that is, if you believe the doctors, or your family is totally convinced? You might then accept the disabled label, you are forced into unemployment for life and poverty, and a lifetime (a shortened one!) of drugging and maybe even shock.

    My hope is to reach as many people as possible, in whatever stage of that diagnosis they are in, and help them turn around. This may mean convincing someone to cancel the very first mental health appointment. If we are lucky. Most, though, are married to the System in some way and it’s tough to help them see beyond it.

    There’s an interesting tidbit in this story about seeing your doctor as incompetent. You may also get bad treatment at the hands of “staff,” and start to doubt that they are really the gods they make themselves out to be. This is only the beginning.

    There is a danger, though, inherent in this because getting a doc who is obviously incompetent might lead to your ending up in the hands of one you consider “better.” The good doc/bad doc mentality is pervasive throughout MH and Medicine in general. So many times I heard, “That one was bad…go to this one instead!” So many people I knew thought that they only needed a “better doc” or “better hospital.” I was like that for years, or more likely, decades. It was like waiting for Elijah the Prophet who never shows up at the Seder. Oh well, next year, if we keep on singing the same song. (I think the ritual is built in to the Seder to make a point.)

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  • Are you kidding, Shaun? Those groups they claimed were therapy were nothing but filling in grade-school level worksheets. Discussion was minimal. The lazy staff person handed out worksheets, we filled them in, and everyone read their responses. That was the more advanced groups. Bingo was just one level under that. Art therapy insulted the patients who were truly talented at art. You bet “writing group” insulted me. I’d usually go off in a corner and scribble off like ten pages. They never let me read anything I wrote, and if I squeezed in the words (really fast before I got interrupted again…) they’d kick me out of group.

    Oh, speaking of that, I’d write for the psychiatrist, too. I worked very hard at this, then, I’d walk into the psychiatrist meeting and he’d refuse to read anything I wrote. Or he’d insult me by saying, “Sum it up in one sentence.” I can’t tell you how furious that made me, but they did it many times.

    The worst was when I had about six pages to show the psychiatrist. He literally pretended to read them. I knew he wasn’t. As he read, he tossed each page onto the floor, just to let me know how superior he was.

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  • Shaun, if anyone tells their healthcare provider, or psychiatrist, or therapist that they have a plan to kill themselves, they clearly want to be hospitalized. Talking about suicide is the most effective way to get admitted. That way, the person gets a warm place to stay where they don’t pay a heating bill, hot showers with no water bill, and free food and you don’t even have to apply for food stamps to get it. You can easily and quickly get away from the roommates you don’t like, or escape from abusive spouse or parents, or get some relief from caring for your kids. You can even use the heck out of the ADA and get excused from work. Not only that, taxpayers pay for your holiday.

    Only invariably you get there and realize maybe you shouldn’t have opened your trap after all. You realize you could have gotten your needs met more efficiently by staying out. Now what?

    There are no voluntary patients on a psych ward. The ward doors are locked and we are trapped in there. None of the staff give a shit who is deluded into thinking they are voluntary and who is not. You are all slaves now and they can do what they want, or do nothing, and get paid for it.

    Now if you really want to do yourself in, in this day and age you keep your plans to yourself. People know better. We may be called “patients” but we aren’t stupid.

    One alternative, of course, is not to make plans at all but just decide and do it very fast before anyone can stop you. Many fail… in fact I think most do. They end up imprisoned and treated like total shit. You don’t want that, as if that happens it’ll wreck your life.

    Given that all this is extremely messy business, and for me, ending my life means I can’t write anymore (some might be thrilled about that!) and I won’t be able to do activism, I choose to live. And live every day as if there’s no tomorrow. Life is precious. There’s no debate there, not in my mind. No debate.

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  • Thank you, Dr. McLaren, for this witty article! I loved reading it and chuckle over it remembering the decades I spent drinking the Kool Aid as a patient. I think there’s one more reason psychiatry continues to believe the lies in spite of the overwhelming evidence of their invalidity.

    Admitting you are wrong means you grieve. You grieve for the years you spent devoted to the lie. You grieve for your misguided career. You grieve for the money, time, and energy you put forth upholding that lie.

    Psychs are like anyone else. Humans avoid painful feelings on the whole. I think they, and their subservient patients, refuse to admit the truth because the idea of such grave loss terrifies them.

    To say, “I was wrong,” is virtuous indeed, but few do. We are trained by our society to refuse to apologize. Apology often means you admit you were wrong or made an error.

    When I had my antipsych turnaround, the first change i noticed was that I began to willingly and joyfully apologize. I noticed, though, how often others fail to do so. I did this because I was already down the grieving path. Most stay where it is safe and cozy, and never take that leap.

    I was in that safe and cozy place of believing the lies until finally about six years ago I was pushed into the grieving state by extreme torture on a psych ward (water deprivation). After that, the road was rocky indeed, a major struggle to regain the person I really am. I consider myself lucky…but lucky in spite of psychiatry. Because of their abuse, I left them behind and started a new life.

    For psychiatrists, individual ones, to break away, it means starting life over. Are they prepared to do this? Some make the leap to freedom. Most, sadly, do not.

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  • Rachel my kidneys are damaged, too. I was told I didn’t have much time left years ago. It turned out to be false…I don’t know what your GFR is but mine is undoubtedly very close to 15, and has been for a while. I manage it totally on my own. I went our running yesterday and am not in “pain.” Please contact me if you are interested in learning how to manage it. The medical establishment already knows this, and has published studies proving kidney disease doesn’t have to be a death sentence, that dialysis isn’t even necessary and can be harmful, but they claim you have to or you will die. It’s a lie! Nephrologists continue to make doomsday assessments of patients and spread the cult of hopelessness. Not only that, from what I recall, mine never made any helpful recommendations to me. I figured out how to manage kidney disease on my own, in spite of the medicos.

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  • Long before my antipsych awakening, I was interviewing with a doctor who said to me, “I see you are schizoaffective, but I note you do not have ‘flat affect.'”

    I then told the shrink that according to my own personal observation, the drugs we are given caused the “flat affect.”

    He paused, then said, “Likely you are right about that.” He then noted I “tolerated” the drugs well, and said that was why I didn’t have “flat affect.”

    I look back and laugh, but also I realize that this “toleration” led to insane doses of drugs and much harm to me.

    I agree that the brain heals. Or can heal, but doesn’t heal for everyone. For many, it doesn’t heal fast enough. I have studied this and as of yet, they don’t know why some brains heal faster. It is not an “attitude problem,” either. They just don’t know and cannot predict. These drugs also cause damage to the other organs, including the heart and endocrine system. Eventually, the damage is systemic.

    I resent the lofty attitude that some people have who claim such healing is easy, or simple, or that there’s one universal answer that will save the world. I resent the superiority attitude of some of those who have healed. It doesn’t help those who are still struggling to hear others boast about it.

    I figure all I can do is share my own experience, but I also consider myself extremely lucky. If I ever gave off the impression that healing in all areas was easy, or a breeze, then someone heard me wrong.

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  • Perfectionism is not a human trait. It is a cultural construct. In fact, the notion of perfectionism has changed over the past 50 years.

    My dad was a self-professed perfectionist. This is not mean “driven” nor any expectation to be “perfect.” He was born in 1924. He was a hard-working student, likely gifted in math and science, and when he worked he paid close attention to detail. Because of this, he was valued at his workplace and give promotions and even given tuition to get a second master’s degree. He died in 1997.

    By 21st Century standards, my dad was not a perfectionist by any means. If we got bad grades, he accepted it and gently encouraged us. If he himself made a mistake, which, being human, of course he did, just the same as any other human, he didn’t berate himself nor get overly frustrated.

    Given the messy state of my childhood bedroom, piled high with clothes by the door to ensure my own privacy, my parents were very tolerant indeed and rarely said anything. Never mind my tangled hair, which, to this day, won’t stay tidy for more than five minutes.

    My dad said perfectionism was a good thing. It helped him get his work done. I look back and remember him as emotionally stable (whatever that means) and never had a reason to see a shrink.

    Who decides who is a perfectionist and who is not? Psychiatry. Interestingly, for much of my life, I’d hear the following from MH professionals: “You have an eating disorder, therefore, you must be a perfectionist.” I even heard that perfectionism causes ED, or that it’s 100% a universal predictor of ED. And yet, I know many who were told they were perfectionists and this, sadly, caused perfectionism due to the looping effect.

    Getting straight A’s, for me, was not due to perfectionism. It was because I loved school and took to it. I love learning, love the classroom, and, though I am embarrassed to admit it, I’m smart, too.

    Speaking of intelligence, I read recently that intelligent or gifted children (I hesitate to use that term, actually) are often pressured during childhood to hide intelligence or even feel ashamed or embarrassed. I found this rung true for me. I sure felt that way when I was a kid, and during adulthood (outside of academia) the shame only continued. My intelligence wasn’t wanted in society and was never valued until recently. Psychiatry dumbs people down, not only by drugs, but primarily because they silence our brilliance and call it a disease.

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  • Electroshock IS abuse. Locking up a person IS abuse. Thing is, we are trained to believe it isn’t. We are trained via our diagnoses to believe it is treatment, when logic and common sense (and the law, to some extent) tell us otherwise. Like say, the Bill of Rights. I can only conclude that once you are a patient you stop believing you are truly 100% human, but a subspecies that has no rights.

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  • Rasselux, I think we’re all aware of brain injuries beyond drugs. I can think of a few. Electroshock. Anyurisms (sp?). Stroke. Atherosclerosis. Tumor. Trauma to the skull/head. MS I believe is a brain thing. Dementia and Alzheimer’s. Fluid buildup. Diabetic coma can damage the brain. Seizures. These may be related, or not related, to psych drugs.

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  • Psychiatry goes against my basic upbringing, which was to be as autonomous and self-reliant as possible. We were Jewish. We went hiking, learned survival skills, camped in the wilderness, learned to ski, and to steer a canoe, and I carry a knapsack to this day. Psychiatry goes against the post-Holocaust Jewish culture in which I was raised, and my basic agnosticism, which oddly, it seems I must have been born and blessed with.

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  • Interestingly, people are built better than cars. Cars do not have decision-making power, nor do they grow as they age, nor do they have the wisdom and insight that humans have. They don’t reason. They cannot take care of themselves. Do they change their own oil? No. People refuel themselves, bathe themselves, and don’t need “tuneups” despite what the medical community claims.

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  • Hi Amy, it is easy to get those “hospitalizations” off your record. Relocate (out of state is best) and DO NOT SHARE your old records. Don’t tell medical professionals your history. Lie and say you never saw a shrink. Don’t tell your relatives who your doctor is, if you have one, and don’t tell your doctor (if you have one) who your family is, so they won’t be contacted. Don’t put your doctor’s name on your refrigerator! Don’t share your pharmacy records. Minimize contact with Western Med. Don’t call yourself sick and don’t borrow diseases either. I wrote a whole book on this technique, which many have used successfully.

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  • Amy, Redesign torture, maybe with newer, better, or cheaper tortures, and spiff up the prisons? Really?

    It may look fancy, but reality is you still have no rights in those places, you are still unable to leave, you are still labeled with a mental disorder, too. Despite the plush carpet and smiling faces of “staff.” In many ways, those “nice” places are worse since patients are deluded into thinking it’s “care.”

    I recall going to those “nice” places and thinking the exact same thing as you did. But in retrospect it was the nice places that turned me into a permanent mental case.

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  • Shaun, if you are curious about the “groups” in hospitals which are billed to insurance at a ridiculously high cost to taxpayers, these “groups” consist of watching TV, Bingo games, and use of worksheets that are at the kindergarten intellectual level. None were therapy. I recall addressing this with my doctor, saying that the groups were insulting to me. I was either threatened and told they wouldn’t let me out unless I attended, or they claimed that the fact that I refused to attend these insulting groups meant I wasn’t emotionally equipped to handle them. When I tried suggesting “meaningful discussion,” the staff claimed “Patients will be triggered.” Or, “Patients lack insight and aren’t smart enough.”

    I can tell you where meaningful discussion happened in those places. Invariably, it took place among us patients when the staff weren’t in the room. It was whispered in the halls or late at night, and any such conversation, if staff witnessed it, was shut down immediately. They also listened on to phone calls routinely and shut the phones off to silence that, too, or ordered us off the phone.

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  • Shaun, Who decides who is dangerous and who isn’t? I, for one, was called dangerous when I wasn’t. Is psychiatry or therapy the Almighty God who has such divine wisdom as to know these things? How many times has psychiatry been wrong and perceived a person as dangerous when he or she has not been?

    You probably have had patients who have taken themselves to the ER because they felt suicidal (or because they couldn’t make up their minds so some shrink made up their mind for them). How long do suicidal thoughts last? These thoughts are most often transient, as you know. How many patients have you known whose suicidal thought dissipated while they were still waiting to be seen?

    Speaking as one, I recall that most of the time, for me, the thoughts disappeared during the time I spent in the waiting room. However, when I was interviewed, now no longer suicidal, I was so embarrassed that I either lied and said I was, or I said I was fine (but they always kept me anyway, for THEIR safety).

    Many times I went to the ER because I couldn’t get my doctor to speak to me off hours, or because he/she was unavailable. Or because the crisis team refused to handle eating disorders.

    Having lived the life of a person perceived as dangerous when I wasn’t, this for years, I can assure you no one wanted to talk to me at all. No one tried even. It was fruitless discussion because I as seen as either a liar or lacking insight. I could have said the sky is blue and they would have had to go check the color themselves to see if I wasn’t delusional.

    Psychiatric holds do not protect the patient or society at large. Many times the patient is held only because the institution is terrified of a lawsuit, certainly not for the well-being of the patient.

    Patients are smart now. They wised up and know that the only way to complete a suicide is to refrain from letting on, lest one be locked up. Many see lockup as a worse fate than death itself.

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  • That I know of, most states have laws against any sex between therapist and client. How can it be consensual in a relationship that isn’t equal to begin with? That I know of, you lose your license in most states, am I right?

    Alex, thanks for validating that most therapists are either incompetent or abusive. There’s crossover between the two. I have known many to overstate their competence. This is rampant with eating disorders, which until very recently were rare or just not seen. I have known many therapists and also hospital doctors who claimed they had experience, training, and competency in the field, and didn’t. You are right that it takes a while to learn, and by that time, you’ve wasted time, paid the therapist’s paycheck, and likely gotten worse. When I had training in life coaching we learned that it’s unethical to misrepresent your competency.

    My guess is that such misrepresentation is illegal if done by a licensed professional in any field. It constitutes abuse and gross exploitation. I am thinking, for comparison, Harold Hill in The Music Man…who claimed he could teach kids to play musical instruments, but he was actually a swindler.

    I remember one therapist outright lied to me about his competency. Since I was young (25) and inexperienced I had no reason not to believe him.

    After a year I found out the bitter truth. My worship of this therapist blinded me from seeing him as he really was. He was “nice.” One day in a flash I realized what a humbug he was. The disappointment and letdown were just too much for me at the time.

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  • But that isn’t true, either. Abuse and love aren’t opposites. Abuse isn’t the absence of love. The two have no relation to each other. You can love your wife and beat her daily anyway.

    Love will not stop abuse, either, since one doesn’t contradict the other. Conversely, abused kids very often adore their abusive parents. Or worship them as in Stockholm Syndrome.

    If I were to ask a heathcare practitioner to stop abusing me, I might tell that person to stop gaslighting, or to stop shoving me, or to stop cutting me off mid-sentence, or to listen instead of putting words into my mouth. Or to let me out of restraints, or please don’t give me any “treatments” I don’t want.

    I notice abusive healthcare professionals will deny the abuse and therefore, gaslight, even boast about the great “care” they’re giving you, and also act sweet and kind in front of any potential witnesses.

    Some act super professional in front of supervisors and colleagues, but when you are alone with them with no witnesses they are anything but professional.

    One therapist told me he loved me. It was warped and perverted, and had nothing to do with caring or decent therapy.

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  • I agree. It is abuse. So often, abused spouses think they’re the disordered ones (this being an element of abuse) and they take themselves to therapy. “What is wrong with me?”

    Therapy may give the abused spouse an outlet. But she gets labeled. He doesn’t. He can use the therapy visits as further reason to label her the nutso, and exonerate himself, washing his hands clean. His sick wife. While she continues to take her story to the therapist.

    But where do her powerful words end up? Wasted in an office! Her words belong in court, do they not? Or anything she can do to get away.

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  • As far as I am concerned, psychiatry has to be stopped. Did anyone talk about reforming the Nazis movement?

    There is the movement and there are individuals involved in it. We have witnessed a handful abandon the psychiatry ideology and come to join us. We see examples of this daily here on MIA, not just patients who once believed wholeheartedly in “diagnosis,” but practitioners who suddenly see the light.

    Psychiatry must be stopped. I think there’s hope for individuals, though, as more and more are having the same epiphany. But not the practice of psychiatry, which has to end. We don’t know how that will happen. Will it be overthrown or will so many abandon it (patients especially) that it crumbles? Possibly both.

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  • It is, but reality is that you can write all you want, but if your word doesn’t get out there, you don’t really have a voice. You may find the act of writing personally healing, but it only becomes empowerment if people read it.

    Credentials: MFA (master’s degree) in Creative Writing, Goddard College, 2009. Other credential: Speaking from the point of view of a person who worked six long years on writing a book that did not sell. Reality: You write, you publish, you sell. If you can manage to sell, your voice might be heard. Selling depends on your social position and on how much money you spend. From the point of view of a person who has been blogging daily (original text all mine) for well over a decade, and oddly, blog views are pitifully low.

    I keep doing it, I keep writing out of habit I suppose, or because it is a way of life. A tiny percent of what I write gets into the public eye.

    A long time ago I wanted to kill myself just to get my writing noticed. Funny, and sad how that happens. At some point I will die of old age, and then, suddenly people will realize how much effort I put into my writing. Now that is the sad reality for many of us. We live with this disparity. Voice for the few.

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  • Christian, This article is incredibly important. I plan to share it and I hope others will also spread the word. I would like to add that for many of us, “hospitalization” in the USA has not been much different from this. I was abused in a facility when I was over 50 and medically compromised. It must be horrifying when it happens to a child.

    I would like to invite you, and anyone here, to submit writings to a new anthology on forced psychiatry. You can find more information here: http://forcedpsychiatry.com

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  • I would have to say I agree with Oldhead, too. MIA encourages dialogue but where is the action? I have been worried that those participating at MIA waste too much time “discussing” the issues. Any real action is done outside of MIA, in other groups, even done by individuals. I fear that the dialogue part sucks people in, becomes habitual for many, and ultimately, causes stagnation or even apathy.

    I have never used the term “critical psychiatry.” Where the heck did that come from? Are you putting words into our mouths? I can’t do the survey. I’m not a participant in a movement I have barely heard of, not a willing one, anyway.

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  • I couldn’t lower the Seroquel at all, in fact I went from 25 to 75 and stayed there. This is why I switched to Thorazine.

    Just a hint: 75 mg of Seroquel is the equivalent of 100 mgs Thorazine. You should be able to substitute gradually and switch over. It took me a few days to switch. I went to a shrink site where I found a table on switching. So….Had I gone to a shrink they would have accessed the exact same table and done the switch just like I did.

    Now I ask…Does it really take an advanced degree to find a table in a search and follow the table? Nope.

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  • That could have been my story, except I experienced the same thing from anti-p withdrawal. I didn’t sleep! I cannot believe I went five years in that nether world between sleep and wakefulness due to the worst insomnia I have ever had. I, too, was terrified of doctors after what I had been through, so I would not go to one.

    I figured the best thing to do, the sensible thing, was to reinstate. I got drugs illegally and then, tapered. Slowly. I couldn’t tell you how long I have been tapering since the reinstatement. Seroquel was impossible to taper from but Thorazine is reasonable, much easier, and switching from one to the other was a snap. I stopped totally but then, reinstated an even tinier sliver. I believe the tiniest I can get the slivers is about 3mg. Thorazine dosing goes up to 2,000mgs, so that gives you an estimate of how much I have managed to go down on it. If I ever have to get a prescription I’d go out of state and pay cash, no insurance.

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  • I actually wrote the agency a thank you. I praised these workers who recognized that I was only under stress from hospital abuse and not “mentally ill.” I told the head of this agency to commend them and that all their workers should do the same as was done for me. I said they should listen to the patient rather than judging by records and opinion of doctors.

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  • FYI, when I was inpatient for kidney failure, while my kidneys weren’t functioning and my electrolytes were off, they decided to diagnose me with a mental disorder. They tried to force me onto Zyprexa based on my “mental status” while in kidney failure!

    Seems like of all those idiot doctors, only the kidney doctor noted that while a person’s electrolytes are as off as mine were, there’s no way I could have been capable of clear thinking. He alone didn’t feel my “mental state” was representative of “baseline.” The other doctors were too stupid to figure that one out.

    I would be dead if I’d taken Zyprexa. They wanted me on a hefty dose and wouldn’t let me leave unless I agreed to take it. Then they got all panicky because they found evidence of “antipsychotics” damaging one chamber of my heart. This didn’t stop them from attempting to force-drug me.

    I was only able to leave because an outside agency evaluated me and insisted that I should be let out.

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  • Duncan, undermining of humans has no place here or anywhere.

    In writing classes, we had to be reminded: We’re not here to talk about the writer as a person. We’re here to talk about the writing.

    This is a major challenge for writing students in beginning memoir classes, where the temptation is to say something like, “This piece shows what a strong person you are.” This, too, is comment on character and not about the writing. We were encouraged, though, to express our own emotional reaction to the piece of writing and discuss reader impact.

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  • Corinna, that is what I was saying. Most of us have not worked as professional peers. Which is why I questioned the point of view of the article. Most have not sat in on administrative meetings. We weren’t employees. We were prisoners.

    At my workplace, which has nothing to do with MH, I haven’t revealed anything about my past and do not intend to. I have attended workplace meetings where I am treated the same as the other workers of my level. I am not singled out as a nutcase because I don’t have a known diagnosis at work. Have I shown emotion? Of course. In a civil manner, because it’s my job and I want to keep it.

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  • Alex, I am not surprised at what happened to you with the university students. Institutions, including universities, have a tiered power structure that is unbalanced to begin with. You have the full professors, adjuncts, those waiting for tenure, grad assistants, never mind admins. There are “staff” such as librarians and secretaries, these have their own power structure also. Even among the students you may find a power division.

    I am surprised at how naive institutionalized patients can be about the power structure of a “hospital.” When I was on the wards, I’d say the majority blamed the doctor, the unit psychiatrist, for various bad decisions the institution made on the patient’s behalf. Reality is that the doc is only a pawn. Many patients aren’t aware that behind the scenes, admins are talking to insurance companies, wheeling and dealing for money without regard for human life.

    Likewise in a university. Profs are not always acting alone. There are admins such as deans behind the scenes. What a dean decides is not necessarily in everyone’s best interest. What is “best interest”? They likely follow the money’s best interest, though it depends on the U.

    I saw profs who didn’t have the best manners. Some were arrogant. Some were always late for class. In some U situations I ran across lazy professors and wondered how they kept their jobs. For the most part, though, they were awesome role models, excellent instructors, admirable people you just don’t forget.

    The best ones set a great example for us students. I learned how to teach by observing the methods of my professors over the many years I attended college. It was so much a healthier environment than the “hospital” setting. Considering how much you pay for a hospital and how much you pay for a U, I ask, therefore, which one is clearly the better bargain?

    While the cost of college has skyrocketed, you do learn there, you benefit. You leave with a degree, the friends you made, and a loan to pay back. You leave a hospital with a diagnosis, trauma, wrecked reputation, possible loss of job and breakdown of family relationships, and on top of all that, drug addiction.

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  • Anger made me an activist and if didn’t feel total outrage over psychiatry and it’s lovely “System” I would not be a decent activist. Anger gives me energy, energy vital to life. It makes me spunky and gives me my quick sense of humor. Anger makes me ever so more to stay alive, I stay around to see my goals and dreams actualized. I have psych to “thank” for my anger, because when they pushed me too far, they pushed me out of their desperate grasp.

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  • Yes, that’ll work if you carry the vial of fake stomach acid with you as your fake stomach.

    Another desperation tactic might be to ingest activated charcoal at the same time that you ingest the Abilify. Warning, though, activated charcoal will wipe out your nutrition. Don’t eat then, eat some other time. And also, charcoal will block up your plumbing so if that happens you need to keep on top of that.

    “Doctor, my patch must have fallen off in the shower. Suddenly I just don’t see it there, if that’s what you’re wondering. By the way, my aunt died and I will not be able to come to our next appointment. I will call once I am back in town. Maybe then I can get this patch replaced.”

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  • Exactly, they write crap about our personalities to imply we’ll never get better, stating it in our records. When they treat us this way, with these MI expectations, we fall into those helpless roles very quickly without realizing it. I learned that this is called the Looping Effect. I always wondered what the name was for “becoming exactly what’s expected of you.”

    A striking example is among foster kids who are told they’ll end up in the CJ system. Told that from day one, and treated like they’re already criminals.

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  • This article hit an emotional chord with me, except the context is one I have not been involved in. I have never been a consumer/administrator nor have I worked in a professional capacity as Peer. I have never been to college to study mental health nor been on the decision-making end in any MH scenario. I was the recipient only, the one on the bottom of the totem pole, the “patient.” So I have not attended such a decision-making meeting in that context. I am wondering why the article focuses this way, when clearly, most readers have never been through this.

    I have, however, attended more shrink appointments than I can count, or even those group shrink meetings where there are ten shrinks and only little ole me to defend myself. Like being on trial (but where’s the crime?).

    What I recall of those meetings is that sometimes, I was there for token purposes only. They either did not allow me to speak or time-limited me to one minute. Or they’d say I had a few minutes, then, invariably after I uttered a sentence or two they’d cut me off and say “We have to wrap this up.” They’d end the meeting and whatever I said didn’t matter because it was a done deal already.

    If I dared complain, they would claim, “But we invited you to the meeting and let you speak.” That was always bullshit and constituted gaslighting. They knew I had not been heard.

    There were times I got emotional, for the reasons stated so beautifully in this article. It was my freedom taken away (and they threatened to take away what I had left…), my home I was at risk for losing, my body they were forcing drugs into, and my beloved dog Puzzle I would have had to give up had they gone through with what they were trying. One time, had they not let me go, I would have died of dehydration while interred in the facility.

    Yes, I got emotional because I care about my life. I begged, cried, and pleaded for them to give me water. Please! Please! I was so desperate and terrified. How can one remain totally calm when one’s life is at risk? And the fact that I begged them, doesn’t that prove I care about what happens to me?

    If I were suicidal, I wouldn’t have cared. I would have just let myself get dehydrated.

    Then they had the nerve to claim I was suicidal. Why? Because I got emotional. Because I cared deeply about the one body I have. Because I wanted to see tomorrow. I realize now the total incongruity of their actions and words….But I suppose their desire for power, and desire to silence me and take my rights away, trumped any sense of logic they had.

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  • Auntie, I have said this before but I think it starts with each of us. We kick back, but we also live well, acting as real-life demos of what it is like to kick psych out of your life. While I know many are suffering we need to take these grievances to the right places. These complaints need to go to the FDA and even taken to the courts, if possible.

    I know the mantra “psych ruined my life” is prevalent, but we need to state also that psych caused the multiple medical issues we have faced, sustained us as disabled people, loved to keep us out of work, supported and upheld our maladies. We need to state loud and clear that leaving psych did not cause mental illness nor supposed “worsening of mental illness.” We need to make it clear that damages such as tremors, TD, memory loss, and so on are not “mental illness” but caused by the treatment. The general public needs to see this clearly because if not illustrated, the average person will not connect the dots.

    For many of us, leaving psych saved our lives. We need to say this loudly also, and those of us who have immensely more stable and happy lives need to make themselves visible.

    You get to a point where you are not afraid to tell people after you get to know them and they trust you. That trust must be there otherwise “telling” won’t work. It will only lead to distrust. When we give away our background, we win people over to our side.

    I did this at my regular Toastmasters meeting and it worked! I love giving antipsych speeches there. But at another Toastmasters Club I revealed too soon, resulting in their clear reluctance and hesitation when I joined that club. I made the decision to take a long hiatus and try again.

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  • Oldhead I think Slater very well might be on the brink of joining our side. This was what I meant about process. She is partway there.

    Likewise, many of us did not become antipsych overnight. We had to shed the brainwashing, the dependency, the worshipful belief in them, the bad habit of going to doctors and therapists for every little thing. The System trained us so well. We had to get over the fear of grieving, and of course, the actual grief over not playing the “patient” role anymore. Many simply do not know any other way. I believe that finding another role, or life purpose, might help. That and getting away from those that treat you like a patient!

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  • Hi Rossa, Glad you asked about what PRN means. It stands for Pro Re Nata. The literal meaning is a little different from how it translates medically. It is a nursing abbreviation for “as required.” If you are given Haldol PRN, this means they either forced it on a patient because they think they know what is best, or, because the patient has complained and this is the go-to solution.

    PRN is not the same as “ad lib,” which in nursing means given if and when the patient asks for it. Ad lib is not often written since it gives the patient too much control. They do not like that. It might be appropriate, in their eyes, for a patient in extreme physical pain (accident victims, cancer patients), because only the patient can feel that pain. I was interred with a woman who had end-stage breast cancer and they had to remind her constantly, “What is your pain level? Do you need something?”

    I remember that situation well. I was there for anorexia and here I was with a dying woman. The staff regarded me with disdain and lavished all kinds of love on that patient. Never mind her constant visitors and flowers. I got none the entire time, no cards, no flowers, abused by “sitters,” and the staff even said they wanted to get rid of me and send me to to the psych ward to get me out of their hair. MGH.

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  • Steve it got that way with me, too. In 2012 I told no one, and then, did not follow through. That was June/July. By September I was totally fine, no help from “them.”

    After that, a year later, to be falsely accused of suicidality and theatened with long-term lockup while I was in kidney failure was scary, upsetting, and deeply traumatizing. Nothing I could say or do would get them to listen. What a bunch of arse-holes. No, assholes. I said it.

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  • If I were to total up the vitamin pills I take no way would it be 31. Not only that, I designed my regimen myself. I did it through self-experimentation. I change it now and then and some are “prn” (wow their word…) but it feels settled now. I take a few for insomnia, a few for ED (you still get physical effects for about a decade after you get better), and a few for kidney disease, and one herbal pill for blood pressure as it has started to creep up (it works great!). I stay away from the medical profession if possible. I let them do my eye surgery but I don’t want them meddling with my kidneys. If I had let them, I would have died by now. I am so afraid they’ll snatch me up and force me on dialysis, but I am fine and certainly not sickly. There are simple natural things you can do, mostly concoctions I make myself and drink, uncomplicated, inexpensive, too, that work as well as dialysis and I have already started that on my own. That’s usually twice a week.

    Okay, counted. I take 16 vitamin pills in the morning regularly, plus a smidge of powdered Niacin. At night, powdered Thiamine and no pills.

    I do not tell doctors that, as they’d call it a mental disorder, ha ha.

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  • That said, I know I was on three antipsychotics simultaneously at highest possible dose, some even higher, three anticonvulsants simultaneously, and usually one or two other pills to add to the mix. That very well could have added up to 31 pills a day, as I had to take them a number of times per day per order from those fake Messiahs, never counted (maybe did not want to face it, ha ha…)

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  • This article resonates with me. Also, I agree with Alex about “toxic environments” even though I don’t use the word “toxic” as social metaphor. I choose not to because I fear it is too offensive to some people who have been called “toxic” themselves (i.e. “You are mentally ill,” which is really what is under that statement).

    Either way, for me, therapy was that toxicity. My therapist was manipulative, gaslighted me, threatened me, kicked me out of her practice and then, begged for me to come back, used sectioning power to scare me, accused me of things I never did, and made me play with stuffed animals. She regularly accused me of lying when I wasn’t. All this made me feel like I was very stuck. Stuck until I realized…THIS IS ABUSE! And I got out.

    Withdrawing from her narcissistic abuse was absolute hell. This was six and a half years ago. That was when I was actively suicidal for about a month. Then, a year later I had anorexia really bad, and I know her abuse (and other people’s failure to hear what I had to say about it) definitely was the cause. (Anorexia and suicide are not the same thing, please do not confuse. You die of it, but you die of a lot of terrible things out there.)

    Then, slowly, I got better. I got over her.Yes, getting away was the answer! I wish I didn’t have to nearly die to find out. But I am grateful and I have a decent life now. Really good.

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  • Knowledge, I have wondered how my life would have turned out if I went into law instead of music or writing. I find that lawyers know what ethics are. Psychiatrists either do not know or ignore ethics altogether. I believe they may have ethical concerns about what they’re being asked to do in medical school. They are told to ignore ethics, ignore what their moral conscience tells them, and to be dishonest to patients because “the ends justify the means.” This is a logical fallacy, one of many that med students are told and in turn, we patients are told and we’re supposed to accept like the pills we’re handed in a cup.

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  • Wow, This piece is very telling about the failure of the System overall. My experience with these state-run agencies and nonprofits is similar. They do nothing at all, back up the state and the psych institutions, do not serve the people, and help no one. Some start off great and die young or sell out.

    There were some good ones that then started kissing butt to the hospitals, then you saw them fall flat.

    I got a position with Crisis Text Line but quickly quit as soon as I saw what it REALLY was. They data-mine user information and pool it. Very sad. That is its real purpose. Don’t be fooled. Not only that, they boast that a bot can be a text responder just as well as a human can. Why not bot therapists, too?

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  • And let me add, I was off drugs five entire years and not sleeping at all during that time. Hypnotic state kept me going. That was all I got, night after night. I was fully conscious and the exhaustion was beyond belief until I finally gave in. Five hellish years later. It’s just that I didn’t say the word “Withdrawal.” I didn’t want to be so trendy. It was more like, “Drug-induced insomnia.” from HELL.

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  • Not true, Rachel. Just because I wasn’t bedridden (or crying….) doesn’t mean I wasn’t having a hard time. Five years of the worst possible insomnia…Is that “easy”? Really? It was so bad that people claimed I must be faking it. I literally lost friends over it, blameful friends, one even had the nerve to claim that the drug-induced insomnia came from a “gratitude problem.” Wow, now I know it didn’t (arrogance, I must say!).

    My ex-psychiatrist claimed I had “mania.” I wasn’t manic but after several years of not sleeping and losing all the friends I had (not sleeping makes you into a bitch…) I was not manic, but so exhausted I was afraid I would die of organ failure. Is that “easy”? I am lucky I did not die. I am lucky I didn’t commit suicide, as many do. It did not get to that point, but my life felt useless, pointless, because I couldn’t accomplish a thing! Never mind dropping things, bumping into things, and short-term memory problems. I am lucky I did not see a shrink during that time.

    My decision to reinstate with drugs obtained illegally saved my life. How long do you think I did that? Two years. Two years to get off those drugs. Easy? I wasn’t crying. I wasn’t bitching or yapping about “withdrawal” because I didn’t have brain zaps. Still, I had to get off so slowly otherwise end up a miserable insomniac all over again. It was easy to titrate, but do you think it was easy to be worst possible exhausted, easy to lose my friends, easy to be accused of mania and scared to death of more forced drugging?

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  • Oldhead, precisely as you say. “Beset by contradictions.” All of us are full of contradictions. Contradictions pull us this way and that and in fact, keep us alive. If we were serene, we would be static, unmotivated, bored with life, and devoid of ambition and drive.

    As for psychedelics, I’m all for it. What confuses me is reliance on doctors to prescribe them, reliance on their all-holy expertise. Why not just try psychedelics if you want them? Why bother with doctors at all? They’re useful for taking out bullets or setting bones. Everything else, their track record is terrible.

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  • Rachel, thanks for asking. I have the entire page written but need to iron out a few leftover particulars. The theme will be announced when the submissions open and I will open it up for about six months for people to submit. I will be asking for creative works rather than research papers and preference will be given to those who are personally invested in what they write. I will be looking for poetry, shorts, essays, memoir, and the like.

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  • Daniel, You make very good points. In the book, what happens is that Slater wants psychedelics but she only wants them prescribed by a doctor. So instead of getting them on the street she accepts what the doctor says, namely that she can’t try psychedelics simultaneously with the anti-d’s! Had she used her own head, and gotten the drugs herself, maybe her experience would have been more like yours, and maybe she would have been able to get off the prescribed anti-d’s.

    I also agree with you that anti-d’s are about the worst of the drugs to get off of. I was not on them for the most part. However, if you read my comment that I put here earlier, I had to reinstate due to long-term, very severe (hate that word), unbearable insomnia that would not quit for five years. How I lived through all that, I will never know, but I did until I finally decided to buy psych drugs on the street. I made this decision weighing the risks of street drugs against the worse risk of seeing a psych (or other MD) and getting a dx put back on my record. I chose street drugs as the least harmful option. I was able to taper successfully down to a sliver and now, I am off the pharma finally. Yes it took a very very long time but the good news is that street drugs saved me a lot of grief and got me functioning again. I sleep now. It was very very easy to ascertain when to lower the dose. Easy because the question, “Am I sleeping okay?” is simple, measurable, and cut and dry. I did all this without a doctor and decided based on my own response, which I feel I can measure on my own better than some person in an office can.

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  • Oldhead, She is hoping psychedelics will “cure” her. But she insists on getting these psychedelics prescribed by a doctor. She explains that she is just so ill that no non-doctor can deal with her.

    I don’t buy this at all, and most of us don’t, I am sure, as many of us were likewise labeled “severe” at some point, or tx-resistant. We might have been called “severe” or tx-resistant, but this was due to the frustration of the clinician, or due to insurance non-coverage, or because there was no DSM label that we fit into neatly, or because we didn’t like being locked up, or because their pat answers and simplistic therapy didn’t work the first time. Or maybe it was their failure to listen that got us the severe label.

    This is not a reason to believe that only a doctor has all the answers for you. A doctor very well can pull out a bullet if you are shot. They are good for a few things. But not all of life. That is the essence of what seriously frustrated me about this book.

    And let me add that I have been very much a Slater fan ever since I was introduced to her.

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  • I am not sure that is what I got from her book. I did not hear her promoting MH. I didn’t hear exactly that. I heard her utter helplessness, her bewilderment over how she got into the predicament she ended up in, and total flabbergastedness over why it all occurred. I do not think for one minute she wants others to fall into the same rabbit hole she did. My concern is that she still goes to these doctors. Why does she not solve her own problems instead? She is smart and resourceful. Why does she still seek the appointments and prescription method? Does she not know this is the road to death?

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  • I am sorry you feel that way. I didn’t think feeling compassion toward a writer I seriously admire, and wanting to reach out to her, from writer to writer was “arrogance.” I never had compassion from psych. I got a diagnosis. I got bossed around, was told I couldn’t work when I could, and got locked up and got my rights taken away. For that, taxpayers got a bill.

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  • Yeah, fiachra, I am sure cold weather depresses the heck out of me. I don’t feel depressed emotionally, but I have this very strong urge to go cuddle with Puzzle under the covers ALL DAY LONG to stay warm and cozy. Well? It can get cold in winter!!! The answer? A heater. Oh. Cuddle more with Puzzle! Who the heck wants to get out of bed when it is FREEZING, anyway?

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  • Knowledge, I have seen that so, so many times, when kids blame their parents and even call them “pure evil.” I don’t get that. Why do they not call the abuse “evil”? They even go so far as claiming these parents were born “evil” and were “psychopaths.” Or personality disordered, paranoid, bipolar, chemical imbalance, otherwise diseased. Huh? When you dig deep, you invariably find out the abuse was passed-on abuse, that the parents were abused or traumatized themselves, if not by their parents, then subject to trauma, likely early in life. Often it is stuff buried so deep we just never learn. Unless someone just sits down with the person, quits the disease nonsense, and sees them as a valuable and valid human being, no less and no more.

    I just cannot stand hearing people called psychopath, mentally ill, or personality disordered, any of those hateful words. It breaks my heart.

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  • Yes, in fact that chapter was my favorite. I honestly believed she got their permission and I didn’t realize she had gone over their heads! Guardians…hah! That is exploitation at its worst.

    As a writer I have fallen prey to this and once I literally pulled a chapter out of a book just prior to publication. When you write memoir you *must* be very careful and not tread in this realm.

    If any of you are familiar with the writer Lucy Greeley, she died of a heroin overdose at some point. Then, her friend Anne Hatchett wrote a book about Greeley. Hatchett was said to have exploited Greeley’s death.

    If you are going to write about someone you were close to after they die or after you lose touch irreparably, you have to be careful. You focus on your feelings and what you recall and have record of, and you realize those leftover feelings will evolve and change over a long, long period. You have to be aware that others, the others left behind have feelings, too. You also have to be aware of your own short-sightedness and be sensitive to the fact that there are things you may never know.

    Professionally, this is ten times more essential.

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  • Szasz makes it very clear that Woolf killed herself by diagnosis and therapy. She was apparently steeped in the very idea of her madness, which she polished up like one would polish up the best silver in the house.

    The myth that the best creative people are “mad” clearly harmed her, too. And he states that madness got her out of having a kid and out of a humdrum job so she could write more.

    I spent years believing I could not work. This was untrue. I couldn’t work a boring, rote, repetitive, job where creativity and intelligence are not valued. However, there are indeed jobs out there that are a potential good match. Too bad it took me decades to find my current one.

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  • Well, she fully understands that the drugs caused the harm. But she hates feeling depressed. Almost like feeling bad isn’t part of life. While I agree, bad feelings can suck, I would not (currently) medicate bad feelings.

    For five years I did not medicate the horrific insomnia that resulted from taking these drugs. I chose to stay away from all pharmaceuticals. I chose misery over seeing a psychiatrist. I knew that seeing a psychiatrist and getting psych pills prescribed to me would end up with a diagnosis back on my record. Also, the prescription means the doctor is in control. I wanted to retain control over what I consumed.

    I chose to obtain legal pills, psych drugs, via the street rather than go to a psychiatrist. You may argue that doing this is “risky.” Look at the risks involved in seeing a psychiatrist!!! Do I want to take that risk? NO! Then, remaining in control, I did a slow taper. Every time my sleep stabilized, I lowered the size of the sliver, right down to nothing.

    I am not saying people should break the law. But psychiatrists break the law all the time, institutions have no regard for human rights laws, and none of these have any professional common sense ethics. If anyone outside of the nut wards knew of the violations we patients witnessed and endured, my own petty violation would seem like tiddlywinks.

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  • I figured I should take on this task. Actually, Welcome to My Country was the first book I read after I took a break from grad school and then, returned. I had just adopted Puzzle and she was nine weeks old (she is 11-1/2 now). I was recovering from devastating weight gain from Seroquel that had literally crippled me. The therapists had “advised” me not to return to grad school, stating that I “belonged” in day treatment. They claimed if I went back to school, I would “only end up in the hospital again.” Wow…they were wrong! I hope they are seriously embarrassed now.

    I remember the day I met with my advisor and she told me about Slater. I was scribbling my notes at a furious pace, wanting to capture every piece of wisdom she had to offer. I even remember the steam on the windows at the coffee shop where we met. “You *have* to read Lauren Slater, Julie, you will really love her writing,” she told me, without spoiling the end, when she described the book.

    I went home and ordered a good dozen paperbacks. I remember digging in with such enthusiasm. I still have all the critical papers I wrote on Slater’s books, in my files and in my memory.

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  • I dunno. To me it is staring me in the face. I saw it in the nuthouses for so long, and one day, made the connection. Ah hah! I suspect that what happens is anyone who figures it out gets silenced in some fashion. You’re silenced in any way they can. Drugging. Incarceration. Outright threats. Illegal use of sectioning. Anonymous online bullying. Vandalism. Spoofing. They will stop at nothing to silence us. This limiting of our Freedom of Speech at all levels is making it difficult to be heard.

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  • Catnight, I am sorry that happened. I sometimes hear stuff like “It is a disease like cancer.” This is such baloney unless you really do have a tumor that causes you distress, and very few of us fall into that category.

    My electroshock coincided with my dad’s cancer. I kept telling myself that he had a real disease, and I was being treated for a fake one and didn’t deserve the elaborate “treatment.” As it turned out, after the ECT I ended up brain damaged and then, finally, I told myself, “Oh gee, I must be legitimately mentally ill finally.”

    I don’t even think Lauren Slater would have wanted for you what happened to you. I don’t think she wanted people to interpret her that way. She was a therapist, not a psychiatrist.

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  • Jclaude, I hope you see this. This is how you deal with the appointments with them. So I assume you “applied” for a potential psych or therapist. Here is what you say:

    “I’m sorry, I just got a call and my old aunt just passed away. I will have to be out of town for a few days and I’m not sure when I will be returning. I honestly do not know if I can make it to that appointment or not. Can I call you when I return?” Then, never call.

    Or, try this: “I’m sorry, I’m in a grocery store right now in a cashier line and I can’t discuss anything personal. Can I take down the number and call you?” Pretend you will, and don’t.

    Or, “I’m sorry, I just can’t get my calendar app to open right now. Can I call you right back?” Don’t call.

    Or, “I’m sorry, this is just such a terrible connection. I don’t know what is wrong with this phone but I just can’t understand you. Who did you say you were?” Hang up. Be careful and don’t sound “incompetent” or deaf or they’ll send the cops. Just make like the phone battery is dead.

    Tell them you are at work and your boss won’t let you take personal calls. Insist they call after 9pm or on Sunday.

    Tell them you’re with your dealer and have to keep it in airplane mode. Policy.

    Julie

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  • Steve McC, YES! I’ve been saying that for ages. See a doctor and you are asking for trouble. You are asking for at least Appointment Addiction, dependency, and a huge waste of time.

    Recently, my brother suggested I see a dentist. I guess he doesn’t get it. With fewer years ahead of me than behind, do I want to waste hours, day after day, of precious life in a dentists’ chair, waste thousands of dollars that go where? Into his pocket! For what? For pearly whites? I want to spend the last few years or decades of life being an activist, not paying time and money (hard-earned, I must say!) to the dentist! That plus I am totally convinced that if I go to one, I will lose my precious teeth.

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  • I found Johnny and Jane to be a super enlightening book as a person who has been traumatized by recent abuse while inpatient on a medical floor (I was over 50 years old when all that happened!). I learned that trauma is human and I wasn’t diseased. I learned that war is terrible. Human but our reactions to it are normal and we very much should be horrified by war, and we very much should be horrified by abuse in a hospital, and we should be horrified by any sort of injustice, we should be angry, even for a long, long time. Until they hear us. Until things change.

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  • Like Darwin’s theories, Maslow’s theories have been misused.

    When I was 20 years old I was first introduced to “therapy” by my employer. I tried to be polite and said nothing, but I really felt disdain over his engagement in therapy. My reaction was, “Oh my god, no one would waste time in an office like that unless they were too rich and way too self-absorbed.”

    Sadly, three years later, I fell for therapy myself. I thought that going to the “poor people’s clinic” would be different. I didn’t want to be elitist, either.

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  • Oh yes, you have to say, “No notifications.” Once you figure that out your phone conversations aren’t constantly interrupted. I do have a cell phone and the main reason is bus prediction. I am car-free, and have been for 30 years. Oddly, people have criticized me for this decision, saying that it is limiting and causes dependency, but actually, it frees me up. I refuse all rides from people and insist on taking the bus. I’ve had “dates” who were insulted by my self-sufficiency! Honestly, my idea of “date” does not include “You depend on your man for every little thing.” That sounds like the road to abuse or manipulation or just plain bad relationship as far as I am concerned. So I take the bus and get by on my own.

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  • Streetphoto, read Paula’s book, which she linked to. You can find it in hard copy.

    Paula, it would be great if I could add They Say You’re Crazy to my Kindle collection. When will it get put into Kindle format, or some kind of downloadable format? When I left the country I had to leave behind some 700 books, sadly, and now I’m trying to not accumulate so many hard copy books. I don’t mind accumulating files on my kindle, though, as they are transportable. Knowledge is POWER.

    Read, you guys! Reading helps keep you out of the grip of psychiatry. Psych drugs and ECT impair your brain, impair the attention span, worsen concentration and make it hard to read for many people (even though some folks claim otherwise). Reading takes practice and you have to keep it up. If you do not read, your brain will get out of practice. If you insist on only listening to audiobooks or only watching TV and video (as they do on the wards (some wards ban books!), your brain will lose its ability to read text. If you insist on only reading short bits of text at a time, your brain will lose its ability to sit and read for long periods. But if you have patience, and work at it, you will develop a love of reading. Just try and try, and what you lost due to being out of practice will come back. And keep at it!

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  • Please do not confuse generalize over “devices.” Not all devices are evil. There are devices that help quadriplegics get in and out of bed. Reading devices help people read books (such as Anatomy of an Epidemic, which might save them from psych drugs!). As for “screen time,” not all screen time is evil and horrible as the media now insists. “Social media” is not the same as just looking at a screen. Before my cataract surgery, the only way I could read and write, which was how I educated myself and learned about the history of our movement and read about world and local news, was by using the screen and reading off of it. I do not own a TV, microwave, stove, nor dishwasher nor clothes washer nor dryer. I am not on Facebook, and I feel that reading and writing via computer, the only way I can access text, is very different from gossip and bulling others via Facebook-like applications. I hate watching videos via YouTube and I do not listen to audiobooks as I don’t have the patience for them. Text reading is much faster. Text reading is a great way to actively use your brain, as is writing.

    Because I am computer savvy I was FINALLY able to secure a job after being jobless for decades. I had been putting in up to ten applications a week for a couple of years, and had almost given up hope.

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  • Well, Lawrence, you know doctors as well as we do. Never talking means they talk in their spas and clubs. They might talk in the elevators, the halls in their huddles, thinking we patients, with no brains in our heads at all, aren’t capable of hearing what they are saying nor understanding.

    Funny, I am only now reading many of the key antipsych books, but just from spending all those years in the nuthouses, I had them pinned down simply by overhearing their shit. You know, all it takes is sticking a pair of headphones into your ears and keeping them shut off. They’ll talk, thinking you can’t hear them. Or sitting in an apparent daze in front of the tube, but really, listening to their damn chatter. Especially when the head nurse or supervisory doc walks in. Stay in the daze or pace by. You’ll hear all you need to know that’s fit to print in the best antipsych books. Guaranteed.

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  • Streetphoto and Paula, This is very true! I am so grateful for whistleblowers like Paula J Caplan who spoke out after she witnessed what amounted to corruption that affects hundreds of thousands of people to this day, as an insider while a member of the DSM committee. Her courage to continue to speak out against their two-faced nonsense is exemplary.

    I hope someday the DSM members will be brought to trial as human rights criminals (not Paula, though!). They are not serving the pubic nor serving diagnosees. They are serving the drug companies. Is the elephant too big to be seen?

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  • I agree, Paula. As example, for decades I was hoping that Binge Eating Disorder would be recognized in the DSM and I had no clue why it wasn’t. Now, suddenly, in 2013, it was! Why? Because they had a name brand drug for it. Suddenly, we have an epidemic of BED, as I describe in my article here in MIA, https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/02/is-binge-eating-disorder-made-disease/. The article, by the way, drew much controversy. It’s not that more than ever are binge eating. It’s that now, we are valid, bona fide diseased so now folks can go to “doctors” and not be called “fakers.” Trust me, for decades we were called by other diseases such as borderline or anxious or anything but! Now they’ll give us dangerous, expensive pills that might kill us. (If you want speed, which does indeed reduce your appetite, ask any anorexic, we’ve known about coffee for decades now. It is far safer than Vyvanse, if you’re gonna compare!) Either way, hocus pocus, diagnosis! Suddenly, we got real! Suddenly, it’s a disease, but I don’t think it means we suffer any more or less. It’s just that now you can make an appointment with a doctor for it and have a valid-sounding “mental disease.” You can get hooked on therapy even worse. Which some find “useful” I suppose.

    I suggest the following. Stop dieting! Know that binge eating is the natural, normal consequence of restrictive eating. It’s not abnormal to react that way after anorexia. It’s not a mental disease. After starvation, whether you chose to starve or not, it’s very normal to go on binges for years, even a decade before your body gets used to food being plentiful again. It does go away, and it doesn’t need therapizing, pills, nor “treatment.” In fact, too much therapy will likely sustain you in a binge eating state, since it will make you hyper-focused on the bingeing. This is why many find over-monitoring intrusive and counterproductive. Just let it gradually subside, and it will.

    Julie

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  • R Whitaker, if you read my comment, and perhaps you did not, I was also targeted as a speaker. I was removed as a speaker from a high-powered conference after I’d been accepted to that conference. I qualified, yet someone “flagged” me. Their excuse for removing me as a speaker was that I was “not recovered” and that I’d “trigger” the attendees, assumedly due to my supposed stick thinness, which I am no longer, thank goodness. I am sure it was total bullshit. They didn’t want the likes of someone there who was going to question the psych slavery narrative.

    BTW, my blog, which I have kept 13 years now (and blog daily, anti-psych all the way), has been flagged numerous times, toolbar put on (basically hacked), and I have also had online bully commentary, including bullies that appeared to knock down my self-esteem, accuse me of being “severe borderline,” narcissist, and psychopath. Swear words used, etc. Links to porn sites even. I believe the bullies are hired and I can only guess who hired them. I sent some of the commentary to other activists who agreed the bullies were hired, and said that since I’m an adult, little can be done, and it’s barely possible to trace them.

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  • The fact that four years went by before the flagging is telling. This is what happened to me regarding a speaking engagement I had already booked. I was accepted to speak at the NEDA/BEDA conference. This is a ritzy conference that was held in New York last November. I was accepted and told to sign up. I bought train tix to New York and booked a room. Months passed. One day, out of the blue, the BEDA chair wrote to me and said they were canceling me because they’d “heard about me.” They claimed I “wasn’t recovered” and that I would “trigger people at the conference.”

    Not exactly. I might inspire people at the conference to avoid ED treatment centers, to start up their own self-help groups, to trust their own body intuition, to end doctor dependence, and to do sensible drug tapers…but of course NEDA/BEDA is sponsored by treatment centers and drug companies. Again, I was thoroughly approved. I had a great idea for the presentation and I have presented before. They didn’t tell me the source of the flagging.

    I was hoping to apply to do a TED Talk. They can’t argue against real personal experience and real achievement. I want to do a TED Talk because I do well in front of audiences, because I tell an entertaining and engaging story, and because I know I can reach more people that way. I looked into motivational speaking but I find it’s very hard to get speaking engagements ordinarily. I have tried contacting my alma maters, where I paid tuition and did amazing academic work, and they have stated they don’t want me speaking there, given lame excuses, or they just don’t write back. I am thinking of starting in the high schools instead.

    BTW, would appreciate support from anyone out there. If you have connections, can you get me a speaking engagement? Willing to travel.

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  • The only part of the article I don’t quite align with is that emphasis on achievement is a negative force. I was always focused on academic achievement and I was very good at music. Focusing on intellectual things was what helped me thrive in academia.

    Sadly, therapy overemphasized relationships. As a result of therapy I became needy and attached to certain people I met in the “milieu.” I was emotionally attached to the therapists. It was a sad change from the academician I once was. None of what therapy had to offer had anything do with using your thinking. You were supposed to “feel.” It seemed too mushy to me. Yet I became brainwashed by the “group hug” and stuffed animal play.

    Now, I have gone back to my former self. I stopped emphasizing friendship and am plowing ahead with “career” in the forefront of my mind. This is how I am. I am hard-working, achievement-oriented, prefer to work independently, can create my own goals, and I love to do creative things. I was meant to be like this.

    Happiness doesn’t depend on relationships anymore. People let me down far too many times. Humans are fickle and unreliable. Instead, if one happens by, that’s a good thing. If one leaves, I don’t fall apart over it.

    What’s cool is that now that I am not in therapy and not labeled, I am free to feel what I want without professional criticism. So what if my bf broke up with me due to his two-timing? Had I been in therapy, the idiot therapist would have said, “Oh, let’s process this,” or, “So now you are grieving. Let’s set up extra appointments to get you through this.” Fuck that.

    I don’t need therapy to create a mess for me when no mess exists. When my ex told me he was two-timing me and wanted to break up, I was laughing inside, cracking up, telling myself, “Either he just needs an excuse to end it because he has no guts to admit he’s scared of commitment, or he’s a damn idiot and I do not want him around.”

    Who needs therapy? I’m fine. That’s because I am in a secure place within myself and I don’t define happiness as another human being. Oh, I do center life around my dog. I do not think she centers her life around me, though. I think she thinks of food constantly, and the many ways she can trick me into spoiling her even more every day.

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  • “A post on Facebook about cats or someone falling on their face might garner 50 “likes,” while a vulnerable and honest reflection of pain, need for connection, or hopelessness will tend to go ignored and result in lost followers.”

    That’s exactly how I lost all my friends when I was about 53 years old. I tried to ask my “friends” on Facebook (and other places) for help with my eating disorder and then, very quickly, they were not my friends anymore. This makes me so angry, even now. They even called me dangerous and said I should be locked up. One of them said I “was no longer a person.” Makes me sick.

    I have no clue how on earth I made it through 2011, 2012, and 2013 alive. They never realized I had a narcissistic therapist during that time, which was causing me to react by crying out for help. It takes a long, long time to get over therapy abuse. I got over it alone, no help from the unsupportive ex-friends.

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  • This is likely because the therapists have no clue what really bad poverty is like. They are employed, after all. They have degrees. Most have a chance at making decent money, some end up with crap jobs, though.

    I have been on different ends of the economic spectrum and I find that what SomeoneElse is saying is true. I came from privilege and the therapists couldn’t relate to that. Later, I found they’d ask me stuff like, “Can’t you take a cab?” when of course the price was prohibitive.

    Therapy is mostly ineffective, simply because the therapist tends to assume the client thinks just like she does. The therapist assumes she is normal and healthy and the ideal for living. Bullshit.

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  • Law on the inside: You have no rights. Even if they have “patient rights” laws as they do in Massachusetts, these laws are totally disregarded. All states have “treat the patient with respect” as that one is national. Bullshit, they will treat you however they feel like treating you. If you complain that it’s not respectful, they’ll gaslight you by saying, “So, how have we not been respectful, didn’t we do___ for you?” Then they go off on a list of how great they’ve been, how much they’ve bent over backwards for you, which they know is baloney, then call you ungrateful. Say what? Offered to change the TV channel? What about letting me pee and change my clothes without staring, eh?

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  • What if thousands of people just stopped going to doctors? How often do we REALLY need a doc? How often do we have bones that need setting? How often does a person need a bullet removed, or get into a car accident? These are times you need a doctor. Not for scrapes, bruises, colds, and mostly if you get the flu a doc can do nothing anyway, nothing helpful.

    Our insurance system, especially ‘Care/’Caid, pays for everything with no copay. You can see a doctor for the stupidest things. ‘Caid covers ER trips and ambulance rides whether they were necessary or not. Just call and they come.

    I am speaking of my past self here. I went to them for anything. They were free, after all. Invariably, they never gave me decent care, never satisfied me in any way, never addressed the issues I came to them for. Once, I went to the ER after I’d been raped and I ended up with a dx of “common cold.” They even wasted tax dollars giving me an unnecessary, wasteful “breathing treatment.” Stupidity! Every time I went in there saying “Help me, I can’t seem to eat” they just sent me away with a dx of “anxiety.” Useless.

    I was force weighed at the doctor about once a week for about a year per order my abusive therapist, and every time, the PCP charged my insurance. I never had to pay a cent and wouldn’t have! I never understood the high charges for operating a doc office scale. $45. $60 even a few times. Why did it have to be a doc? Why not a nurse? Wouldn’t that be less burden to society? I’d love to total up the dollars and cents.

    I do not see them now. Never. I had the flu, and because I didn’t see them, I got over the flu very fast. I hurt my foot when I dropped something on it, and that ended up hurting very badly but it would have been misdiagnosed had I seen a doc. Two days later I was fine.

    Seeing doctors is hugely wasteful. They do nothing productive. They aren’t gods.

    So thousands of people could just stop going without consequence to them, but much consequence to the medicos and their institutions.

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  • If you are locked up, doing a hunger strike makes sense. If you are not, no one’s going to care. Especially three-day hunger strikes. You will survive three days of not eating if you’re healthy. A month-long hunger strike would raise eyebrows, and also, get you incarcerated with a tube up your nose. I think, though, there are laws protecting prisoners who do hunger strikes. I’m not sure if they can be force-fed under law if they’re striking. Isn’t there an international ruling on that?

    Now if you aren’t healthy, say, if you are diabetic or have other serious condition, or are underweight, not eating will kill you and again, unless the hunger strike is organized you’re likely to be accused of suicidality, and your cause disregarded.

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  • I’m sick to heck of the topic of drug withdrawal! And I’m sicker still of the claim that MD’s and PhD’s are “experts.” This is why I have kept my participation in MIA to a minimal lately. I’m sick of the topic of drug withdrawal because while I see it as important, overemphasizing it minimizes human rights, or rather, lack thereof, which IS the bigger picture. I’m so disgusted with the overfocus on this topic here (and elsewhere) that I want to quit outright.

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  • Lavender, I see writing as communication, though the process is also a personal journey, but the point is, you are bringing the reader along for the ride. That, to me, is the focus, the ride. I don’t write for myself. I write to communicate what happened so that it might be prevented from reoccurring. This is my goal. I am always focused on helping others see the truth about the MH system, and helping others understand that they, too, might be better off if they walk away.

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  • Especially since, as far as psychiatry goes, many can look up these pills and self-prescribe. And they do! Some 20 years ago I started noticing I could self-prescribe better than they could. I said nothing. Not then.

    Secondly, it’s been proven that compassion works better than therapy. Just the fact that the personality of the therapist is the most important factor, way beyond the methodology or amount of training.

    When I had acupuncture I remember the acupuncturist was really nice. That made the acupuncture work, though to this day I don’t know if anything else other than someone was nice to me mattered at that time.

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  • Mad studies scholars may see it as something within everyone, but the mainstream sees it as an excuse to segregate and exclude, though a very arbitrary one. Madness is nonexistent in that the actual characteristics of one perceived as mad are not defined nor do they delineate Mad People at all. The difference, as far as I’m concerned, is that those perceived as Mad get their rights taken away. That’s societal, not personal.

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  • Lawrence, For once I am glad to hear this from a psychiatrist. You forgot something. Disability. Psych diagnosis is easy to obtain. You barely have to fake anything. Just walk into the presence of a psych and tell him/her your past diagnosis, and he’s likely to believe it, whether you had that dx or not. He’ll write it in your record and now, you’re guaranteed a basic income for the next seven years, called “SSDI.”

    What a great idea for those dissatisfied with their jobs, or those who are in a field where work is scarce. Great for women who want to depend on their husbands and need an excuse to stay home. Great way to get out of the workplace if you were sexually harassed on the job, without dealing with the mess of reporting anyone. Great for artists of all types, as it’s an income instead of having to get a “day job.”

    I am guilty of the above, most of them, which is why I bring it up. I didn’t know how I would get a job as a music composer, and at my previous jobs I had been sexually harassed. Disability worked great for me, excusing me from the workplace, until I was abused in a hospital. Everything turned upside down for me after that.

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  • I agree that many survivors need to publish under a pseudonym, for obvious reasons. I do not, but that’s only because there are five of me in every major city. So I am easily mixed up with others who have my same name, and whose to say if it’s the real me? I was well aware of this when I published in MIA under my real name, but if my name were something else, something less common-sounding, I would not want to use it.

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  • I am thinking along the same lines. I am not uncomfortable with “lived experience” because to me it means you’ve been locked up and experienced psychiatric violence. That’s not even debatable, it is a fact. You were behind locked doors, drugged, shocked, or all of the above. I’m not sure what “mad” is, though. I do not define myself as “mad” at all. I don’t think anyone I know defines me that way. If they do, they aren’t my friends anymore.

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  • To expect acceptance from everyone is unrealistic, considering how many people are out there.

    The other day I received negative feedback at my Toastmaster’s meeting. I was shocked at the amount of negative, and so little positive feedback. I had enough self-esteem to know that my speech was one of the best I have ever given, and also very different from what I usually give there. Why the negative feedback? At first i was dumbfounded.

    Harsh, negative feedback is not the norm for this meeting. However, I wondered very briefly if the speech I had given was simply a bad speech. I realized that the speech was excellent, but the venue was wrong. It was a mismatch. At Toastmasters they don’t expect “art” and “poetry.” They’d rather have a concrete, sappy story. Many of the nuances in the speech flew over people’s heads.

    So inside, I told myself I would not toss the speech, nor take the negative feedback very seriously. I would take the speech to a different audience, an artsy audience, maybe a poetry reading or some such thing, because really it was performance poetry, not a speech per se.

    The fact that I was able to shake off the harsh criticism and move past it says something about self-esteem. I couldn’t have done this during the couple of years after psychiatric abuse (abuse by therapist and abuse while inpatient). Psych abuse shakes you up very badly and makes you vulnerable.

    The fact that I handled the negative criticism well also says a lot about my fellow Toastmasters’ faith in me. They would not have given me this harsh feedback if they thought I would not have been able to “handle it,” or if they thought I was “sensitive” or that I’d crumble if I heard it. They knew I would not. They would not have given feedback like this to a rank beginner. They made it clear that they set the bar high for me. I took this as about the best compliment you could get. It was an amazing learning experience.

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  • I experienced severe insomnia as a direct result of taking Effexor! This was back in 1999, summer. I had never had insomnia before and was shocked that I couldn’t sleep. Stopping Effexor solved the problem. Any other antidepressant either had no effect on sleep or caused insomnia. But of course the average shrink would say this is just “anecdotal evidence” and act all dismissive…..

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  • Any excuse to keep a person longer on a psych ward, they will do it, especially if they can milk the insurance in the process. They cannot prove patients are ill and a patient cannot prove he is not.

    I, too, have seen overweight people accused of “poor self care” on psych wards. They’ll use any excuse. More likely they’ll accuse underweight people of that, though.

    I have been remembering times they kept people because they were too lazy to find a translator. For six or more extra weeks. Or incarcerated from the ER “just in case” simply due to lack of translator. That was such a crime.

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  • We have to realize that pressure to be thin is relatively recent. The diet industry wasn’t that strong in the media and in our culture until the past couple of decades. Back when I was growing up I remember this diet aid called “Aydes.” I remember talking with my friends, “But why would anyone want that?” meaning why would anyone want to eat chocolate to lose weight. Dieting was rare in the 1960’s and 70’s, at least in my own culture and among my friends. It was unheard of in my family and I never really knew anyone growing up who went on a diet. Only vaguely. I don’t recall pressure in school, either. Not that kids didn’t get teased for everything under the sun…they did! Fat was just one of them. Now, it is different. People forget that this dieting thing in the media and the pressures are all new.

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  • Another thing: Fat-shaming can lead to ED, to any type of ED, to compulsive eating, to anorexia or bulimia or binge eating or any combination of these. What I saw of pro-ana members were mostly those who had been fat-shamed. Most were not anorexic, but wannabes. Most did not become anorexic but came to the pro-ana forums to find solace due to the taunting they’d been through in their schools.

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  • Yeah but if you have been through an ED, which may, or may not necessarily be visible, the skinny-shaming hits very hard. No one necessarily knows how “shaming” may affect another person, or whether it is perceived as shaming, either. Many times, a flippant comment about a person’s body that is intended as a compliment is really an insult, depending on context and other elements. ED
    “activists” say we should refrain from body-commenting altogether, to be on the safe side.

    For instance, the comment, “You look healthy,” when said to a person who has recently gained weight after being force-fed in an ED facility, will not be taken well! It very well will be seen as hurtful, translated as, “You gained weight in there, didn’t you?” This, I recall, was discussed at length among patients, who resented their families’ well-meaning comments on weight gain.

    We also had to deal with jealousy, believe it or not. Even people who were very very thin dealt with it. Much of this was from healthcare providers themselves, from our friends, even from relatives. You heard stories about sisters competing and even mother-daughter jealousy.

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  • I’ve experienced discrimination as a heavy person and also was discrimination when I was underweight. I remember hearing microagressions, remarks about my weight that were totally uncalled for and rude. Like once I was in a thrift store and someone commented that I could “fit through the aisle.” Or various other rude comments. Since when is weight-based commentary only inappropriate if aimed at “fat people”?

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  • I am not sure anyone was suggesting not caring as a solution, Emily. Not caring can be a result of drugging, which isn’t a solution at all, but a masking of what we actually feel or worry about. We live in a society that is increasingly drugged and because of this, increasingly turning a blind eye to the inequity all around us. We are raising obedient sheeples more and more. What next?

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  • I think most people WILL care what a cop thinks of them during a routine traffic stop. I think most will care what the HR person thinks of them during the job interview. You are likely going to care that they don’t think of you as a typical terrorist while you are walking through an airport. The day I locked myself out of the house, right after I moved here, the cops didn’t even ask me for identification. Why? Because they took one look and decided I “looked honest.” I’m just little ole me who stepped out with her dog. So yes, unless you are seriously drugged or very young, you do care. Only people rarely realize how much they care until they’re on the other side of the profiling fence.

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  • Steve, Some, not all, women value these things. Only some women wear makeup and only some feel that shaving their legs is important. Only some feel that wearing glamorous clothing means beauty. Only some wear fancy jewelry or anything supposedly “sexy.”

    I am proud to say I don’t fit into that category and never did. I don’t know why. I never valued those things, never even spent time in front of the mirror, never paint my nails nor spend time shopping for frilly clothing. Clothes are for warmth and protection only, for practicality. I braid my hair because it’s the best way to keep it from tangling. To decorate the body seems wasteful, but that’s my own personal value and I realize other people think it’s great to play dress-up and I need to try to respect that more.

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  • You didn’t cover weight gain from antipsychotic drugs. I have seen the fat acceptance ideas used as argument by therapists and psychs to stay on these drugs. “Yes, you are gaining weight but accept yourself! Keep taking the drugs, don’t complain, and love yourself anyway!” It’s a bullshit argument for complacency, for failing to take action.

    Any ideology can be used for good or bad. Psychiatry has used fat acceptance to support drugging people with Zyprexa and other similar drugs that cause diabetes and early death.

    On the other hand, fat acceptance has helped many people, when the ideology is used constructively.

    Is there any way to be notified of these sooner? It seems I always come in on the tail end and I never heard about the May 24th event as well.

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  • I agree, Tina. The right to choose to use available health-related resources regardless of citizenship, locale, race, or economic status. The right to be free of being forced or coerced to partake in such.

    I even wonder about the flu shot. Many tell me it’s being pushed on them, and they barely have a chance to say no. I was alarmed when I had to fill out a form at the ophthalmologist’s office asking me if I’d had a flu shot and mammo. What does this have to do with cataract surgery? After my surgery is over, I’m sure I’ll have a chance to give feedback or ask questions (if not, I will anyway) and I hope to point out the imposition these questions pose to the patient. I suspect they’re trying to get these things onto your record and plan to “share” these things with any doctor that signs onto the online system.

    Last time I was at the eye doc the doctor insisted I get a primary care doctor. This, too, is an imposition, since I am not sick nor injured right now, but thankfully the folks in the office seem to have forgotten to continue to push that one on me.

    Health care should be a choice, not pushed on a person. And I do not like it when a doctor tells me how to manage my adult body. I am in charge of my body, not the medical industrial complex. I have the right to ask for a badly needed cataract surgery and have the right to be spared from all this rude pushiness.

    Also, in my opinion, the fact that I notice these things now, while in the past was blase about the obvious infractions on my rights, I credit to being off the drugs! I am no longer oblivious to human rights abuses. And darned proud of that, because I think this is the way I am meant to be.

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  • Steve S, I concur. Also, many people who are in state of emotional distress might need or want “help” but the help they get, if it’s from the System, invariably is rarely what they are asking for.

    I remember each time I left a facility, or ended with a therapist, I asked myself, “Why do I feel such a terrible sense of disappointment?” But then, I learned I was not alone.

    I have known people who ended up in “therapy” for physical pain, due to joblessness, due to overall impoverished conditions, or because they’d been crime victims or subject to bad circumstances such as being hit by a drunk driver. Therapy leads to a psych diagnosis, and that is the gateway to drugging, marginalization, and worse.

    “But that is not what I asked for.” Sadly, I hear this too much.

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  • I don’t understand. Right to refuse treatment whether one is ill/injured or not is a right. Right to illness? I don’t agree with the parallel to right to laziness. One does not choose to become ill, I hope! However, Right to Illness implies that a person deliberately contracts an illness, or has the right to do so. I feel that people who are ill with any malady, real or perceived, should be treated well! Health is not black or white, it is on a continuum.

    You have the choice to exercise or not. You can not exercise, that, certainly, is a right. I am not one to judge whether another person’s choices about their personal health matters are good choices or not. And why should medical people claim authority over another person’s personal health choices? However, they do, increasingly so.

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  • Speaking of….I finally caved and went to get evaluated (again) for a cataract operation. This time when I filled out their required forms they had the nerve to ask me if I’d had a mammogram and flu shot! How is that relevant to cataract surgery? I answered “refuse to answer” since that was an option. I hope they’re just like any other doctor and they do not even read the forms I take the time to fill out. I tried to leave as much as possible blank, and wrote in sloppy handwriting….

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  • Hello Will and All, I never saw this article when it came out. I started to write a similar article of my own recently and when I was done, decided that since I am not Will Hall, since I am not Sera Davidow, since I am not Ron Unger….and so on….I would not even get the article published here, so I didn’t bother to submit it.

    My premise was that we need to clean up our act and stop the hypocrisy within our own ranks. End the elitism, end the white dominance here, end the tiered system from which we came and run our Movement truly democratically. We need to stop giving exclusive vocal rights to the few, and open it all up instead to the many who have been harmed, to the many who have been affected and are demanding changes of all sorts.

    We also need to end the dominance of drug discussions and realize the larger picture, the elephant in the room. They’re still locking people up, they’re still diagnosing, they’re still name-calling and marginalizing anyone they see as mentally defective. This is eugenics, run by the wealthy and powerful. It is only going to continue.

    With the drug-only focus, we’re only picking at the tip of the iceberg. Instead, the whole damn iceberg has to be gone. While the drugs, the Topic of the Day, are visible and horrible, so is incarceration, so is forced/coerced unemployment, forced/coerced disability, and the resulting monetary impoverishment many of us face. We will never have a voice if we remain poor, unemployed, or worse. Drugs or none.

    Politicians do follow the money. Where’s ours? We don’t have any. Scientology succeeds more than we do. They have money.

    We can all end corruption in gov’t, but I suggest each of us do this on a local level, or county level. There are ways each of us can do our own investigation and get these thieving scoundrels out of office.

    Julie

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  • Thanks, Jclaude. I was peer-pressured into believing I must have had bad parents since I began to hear horror stories in the therapy groups. I asked myself, “If I am here, then something must have gone on.” The group pressured me to “talk about it.” They assumed I had been abused and kept needling me to talk about child abuse that had never occurred. In my book, the memoir I published, I have a chapter on that exact moment I was pressured in group therapy. I re-created the scene (with names changed).

    What happened in the scene was odd. I was pressured by the other patients. They were expecting a child abuse horror story. If any horror story had happened to me, it was my eating disorder, that is, a dieting cycle I could not end, which had only started maybe 18 months prior to that moment.

    I was terrified to tell the group the truth. “Sorry, I have no child abuse horror stories to tell you. I don’t make the grade. I’m not good enough for you all. I do have embarrassing eating problems even though I might look okay to you.”

    I never said that. What came out that afternoon was an ear-piercing scream. Likely, I was screaming at the irony of the moment.

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  • JC, I wish MIA would talk about this issue more.

    I am working on a new article for MIA about how some, certainly not all, workplaces are oppressive and reminiscent of the nuthouses in their hierarchical structure and overbearing “policies.” I went through a bad workplace situation in January so that inspired me to write it. (I have another job now that seems totally reasonable so far!)

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  • Streetphoto: The mental health system isn’t just a pill mill. It’s a system of incarceration. It removes people from society or ghettoizes them, essentially de-voicing them or refusing to allow them to participate in society and denies them rights to make their own decisions. It removes them from the workforce, creating a tiered society, a society based on elitism, the haves who are supposedly capable who have rights, and those who are considered incapacitated, whose rights are taken away, sanctioned by laws in many countries. Drugs compound the matter, they are part of it, but they they aren’t the big picture.

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  • Mary, this is their little-known “eating disorders protocol.” Any ED patient in their inpatient “program” is automatically restricted to 32 oz per day. They monitor this very carefully. They won’t allow soup nor tea. They also watched me in the bathroom even while I was toileting, totally illegal in MA, and insisted they’d have to watch me shower. They claimed I would drink the shower water. I refused to shower with someone watching. I was very very thin then. I became desperate for water within a very short time. I begged and begged. Pleaded with them. I realized I would likely become dangerously dehydrated as I’d been upon admission if this continued. My normal intake for over 30 years now has been at least six liters per day in 68 degree weather. In summer or if I am exercising, that could double. I do not get an electrolyte imbalance from drinking my usual amount of water.

    While I was there I noticed my face was beginning to have that “sunken in” appearance of dehydration. My eyes became scratchy, my lips cracked, my skin became dry. I had headaches which they claimed were from fluorescent lights. I told them that had never happened before. Then, they said it was “caffeine withdrawal” and allowed me a cup of coffee in addition to the four 8-oz bottles of water they allowed me. They denied I was suffering from what was essentially life-threatening to me, and very very scary and upsetting. They were also verbally and physically abusive to me, and they intentionally listened on to all my phone conversations, illegal in MA.

    I continued to ask, “Why? Why? Why are you limiting my water?” They repeated, “Protocol.” I have hated the word protocol ever since.

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  • Wow….Maybe we should see this as a step back, or perhaps a challenge we have to face…but of course it’s not failure. After all, the dialogue is ongoing, not over.

    Tina, something was forwarded to me regarding making an appeal to the UN. I was literally tortured in a medical facility, Massachusetts General Hospital, via water deprivation in mid-2011. This was their “protocol,” so this is scary because it’s still ongoing, that is, they still have this universal strict “protocol” and they watch you so you cannot cheat. I believe it was pure stupidity that caused them to do this to me, but this was MGH! The greatest hospital in the USA! Stupidity and discrediting of the patient that would have killed me! I now suffer trauma due to my life having been threatened.

    In the mailing you had mentioned two choices and now, in light of this new development, what would you recommend I do? Two ways to bring this torture to the attention of the UN. I would love an investigation into this “program” that MGH does not even advertise. I would love for MGH to end their water restriction policy as they told me there was no medical reason for it whatsoever. Just a universal policy. I feel the policy poses a threat to patients because they do not make exception for those that may have diabetes insipidus, and the possibility is very real, even undiagnosed, as mine was undiagnosed 27 years (I was told I was “faking it”).

    I’ve been called psychotic over and over. And this really did happen. But you cannot argue when they call you crazy. It is senseless.

    I had anonymous hired online bullies for two years bullying me over this, too. And they even abused me in another hospital (2013) to try to silence me and get me locked up permanently.

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  • I am surprised, but then again, not so surprised, that so few have commented here. We have been silenced too many times. When I say abuse, I only mean psychiatric abuse as I was not abused by my parents, and yet, since psychiatry refuses to admit it could possibly do harm, they insisted all those years that I must have had bad parents. The repeated accusations did terrible harm to my family, to my parents and siblings especially.

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  • Thanks for addressing this. Thanks, Sera and Emily. I listened to the whole thing. Please, please do more on this! MIA does not address this topic enough. Too much about drugs, not enough about force and abuse in so-called “care.”

    The reason why this harm, the main harm of the System is so rarely addressed is that this harm is so obvious and so huge and so widespread that most people don’t even notice it.

    When I was back in the nuthouses I tried to talk about the parallels with forced care and sexual violence. Of course I was called psychotic just for speaking up. When I said that intubation was rape, I was told to be silent. When I suggested that forced catheterization was rape, I was told I was psychotic. When I said that being glared at while I ate was violating, I was called crazy. When I ended up traumatized from all that they did, I was told I “needed treatment.” How ironic.

    I agree that trauma-informed care is a myth because they don’t validate that “care” itself is often abusive, and therefore, not care at all.

    I wonder why they need a trigger warning. Do we get trigger warnings before we get locked up in hospitals?

    I’m going to be linking to this in my blog because it reflects exactly what I have been blogging about for the past 5-10 years or so. Only if Sera says it, maybe people will finally hear the message.

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  • I would suggest the following: Establish a scholarship whereby self-directed students who able to work without close supervision can apply for a low-residency type academic study such I did at Goddard College where I did my graduate work. The low-residency setting allows students to remain living wherever they are, and travel twice a year to a conference where they work intensively together for about ten days. This way, students are not required to relocate.

    The other suggestion I would make would be to set up such a program in a university that is located in an area that is affordable to live. Of course, trends cannot be predicted, but as of now, New York, Los Angeles, Boston, etc, are insanely expensive compared to, say, the Appalachian region or parts of the South.

    Psych survivors are invariably so poor they/we cannot afford to live in any other locale than the most impoverished of areas. Because my current area is affordable, I am delighted with the people, the culture, the way of life, and the welcome I have received here.

    Why not set up an antipsych department at a junior college? As of now, I am currently planning out an antipsych class, likely an overview of principles, to teach at my local junior college. I plan to apply to do this for the Continuing Ed department. It’s my understanding that if the class is well-received I will be invited to run it again.

    Many continuing education centers independent of universities will welcome teachers willing to teach this subject with open arms. And variations thereof! “Writing by Psychiatric Survivors.” “Mad Poets Strike Again!” And so on.

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  • Ria, I believe you. I stayed in touch with one of my buddies after I left. She reported to me that it got even worse there.

    I remember (this being 2011, January) the bathrooms were very bad. I personally cleaned the women’s bathroom daily. I had to clean piss off every toilet seat and sometimes even poop. This was wintertime and they never managed to get the window in there closed, so it was around 45 degrees in there and we had no clue how we’d shower. There was a “handicapped” bathroom but that was usually used by the unfortunate person whom they’d kept held in solitary, usually for about a week. As a psych ward it was about the worst overall I had seen in a while. The food was so bad people couldn’t touch the stuff. They got worried I would lose too much weight so they let me have Kosher meals, which were non-McLean, ordered in specially. The other patients were awfully nice that time. We knew damn well the staff were totally incompetent. I left there in far worse shape than I was in upon my arrival.

    My therapist had insisted I go to the ER. Why? I had a broken tooth and she insisted I needed a psych ward for that. I was told at McLean that my broken tooth was “anxiety from teeth-grinding at night” and they insisted I take Haldol for it. I was held three weeks, no dentist, told repeatedly it was my imagination and that the Haldol would cure it.

    By the time I had that tooth pulled it was so badly infected due to the delay that the dentist was worried about pulling it, but of course it was essential to come out. I was really sick afterward because it was so infected from the extraction. Not only that, the crack was visible with the naked eye. McLean had no excuse. I was not faking it.

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  • Ria, pretty much that sized them up. The night staff at McLean were terrible, I recall, one time I was there. This one lady came and brought pillows and blankets so she could sleep all night. This other one brought a textbook so he could study his school work. He ordered us to stay in our rooms until 6am. When I left my room to get a drink of water, which I truly needed for a medical condition, he ordered me back inside. The other patients came to my defense. I remember that rather clearly and with a sense of camaraderie toward the other inmates. I phoned some higher-up office and complained. The night staff were okay to me for the next few nights and then, went back to status quo.

    For future, if anyone out there is incarcerated: Don’t call the human rights office. Call the human resources office, that is, the HR office that is in charge of hiring and firing, and complain. That will get you some action. Don’t complain about bad bedside manner. Complain about patient abuse, rape, negligence, patient harm, sexual harassment, theft of your belongings or anything they really need to hear about. Sadly, all that is the usual stuff that happens on a psych ward.

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  • Yes, Phoenix. Let this be a lesson to therapists to hear out what the patient has to say about former therapists! It shouldn’t be a taboo topic! And for godsakes, mandatory reporting, even if you are reporting on abuse done by a mental health professional, is the law! Mandatory reporting about abuse done in a mental hospital is the law! If you see something, say something! That is the law! Those who turned their backs on me have some serious reckoning to do.

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  • Eric I am sad that you enjoyed your stay so much. No wonder they kept you four months. Who paid for your hotel stay?

    I used to be like that, too. That’s one of the many reasons I stayed a mental patient for so long, and didn’t get out for decades.

    I was devoted to it, like it was my destiny, my life’s purpose. God-given. Sacred. Only after three decades I realized their diagnoses (whether that meant role in the nuthouse or “schiz”) had no leg to stand on, and it all crumbled.

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  • I agree, it’s nothing but psychobabble. Here’s what I would have preferred, but it never happened. Each time I switched therapists I wanted to tell the new one about the last one. I wanted to say what went horribly wrong. I was never allowed to say that. It was taboo. I hated that.

    Like I went to see this T in 2008 and I fired her after she ignored that I was raped. Yep, it flew right over her head. She literally did not notice that my neighbor had raped me. After I fired her and found another therapist, I wanted so badly to tell the next therapist, “Hey, this is what happened, this is why I fired her!” but that conversation never took place.

    The next therapist I struggled with at first but we came to a pretty good understanding. She got laid off. The next therapist was narcisstic and abusive.

    The one thing that would have been helpful at that point, 2012, would have been to talk about the therapy abuse. There were people in my life that could have been there for me. I was begging to talk about it, hoping that someone would listen. I went from therapist to therapist, hoping that someone would hear my story. Sadly, my psychiatrist refused to believe me and called me psychotic and I couldn’t get a single therapist to listen. I almost killed myself around mid-2012 as a result. I didn’t. Never took any pills. I tried to tell someone but I couldn’t get anyone to sit down with me and listen to my story. Around the beginning of 2013 a therapist tried to ask me out on a date. Great therapy. When I told my psychiatrist about him she told me I was psychotic, and that such therapists do not exist.

    I concluded that therapy is useless. I’m surprised I’m alive after all that. Can anyone blame me for not having contact with the bozos called MH professionals?

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  • I had a narcissistic therapist. That was hell. The whole time I saw her was hell on earth. I remember leaving Maria’s office feeling like I wanted to kill myself and wondering why.

    Maria was controlling and abusive. She used to accuse me of vomiting over and over and I never vomited. She told me she was arranging for me to go to the State Hospital.

    After I was deprived of water at Massachusetts General Hospital (which is TORTURE under any law in any country!) she told me the “unit” was on did not exist and that I was totally psychotic and it never happened. Then she claimed this meant I needed the State Hospital even more. She pushed for it harder after that and threatened me at every appointment.

    That woman should not be licensed and in fact I think she should do prison time even though I don’t believe in prison really. I HATE WHAT SHE DID so much. I hate what she did to me and I hate what she did to all her patients because in my heart I know I was not the only one. One of these days she will have a suicide on her hands. I pray this doesn’t happen but I see it as inevitable and I pray she gets nailed for it. At least.

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  • Yes, Chaya, that I observed also. This is one reason a “therapist” can sometimes be easier to talk to than a family member. The conversation is less “loaded” if you are talking to someone with less history behind her. Of course so can a friend or neutral person you meet online that you don’t have to pay $150 an hour to talk to.

    Rachel, I remember saying the same thing to myself. I thought it was very sad that no one would speak to me at the time, literally no one even though I tried so hard. So I was going to have to find some “therapist” and PAY that person who was going to hate talking to me, but she was being paid to sit there and if she could stand me, listen to me. I hated the thought of it, but I figured if I was going to have any spoken conversation at all it was going to have to someone I paid. Then, of course, I realized that therapy is nothing but prostitution! I cried every day during those years, crying out of the isolation I was stuck in and lack of spoken conversation.

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  • Gabi, That is a funny question. I am proud to be alive in spite of psychiatry. I am alive because I refused it. I am alive because of noncompliance.

    My mom taught me something when I was a little kid. She said if you ever have a difficult problem to solve, you can solve it! Just put on your Thinking Cap. She said everyone has a Thinking Cap. But we have to remember, she said, to put it on.

    Psychiatry tells us we do not have Thinking Caps. Psychiatry tells us we have to rely on Them for all our needs. However, if we rely on them, we will fail, over and over and over. This is because they are unreliable. What happens is that we end up terribly disillusioned by psychiatry, and subsequently we might feel disappointed in humanity in general. But the beautiful thing is that we then might fall back on what is left–ourselves. Lo and behold, we might dust off our Thinking Caps.

    We all have one, and we can put it on and use it anytime. My mom was right! It costs nothing to use it. It is magical and amazing. Put it on and you can do just about anything.

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  • The worst example of narcissistic behavior that I have seen recently was my therapist that I had between November 2010 and around March of 2012. I was total hell having her for a therapist. She had a Savior complex and was very controlling and manipulative. She regularly threatened me and falsely accused me of all kinds of things, whatever she felt like accusing me of. I am horrified that she still practices therapy.

    Still, on principle, I don’t call people narcissists. I say, “narcissistic behavior.” I don’t label others. Much as I hated Maria’s behavior I will not label her. I know in my heart that what she did was criminal. It was abuse. It was not a disease and I will not excuse her abuse by claiming it was a symptom of a disorder. She should not practice therapy until she can work out her control issues. I hope she reads this and wises up.

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  • That’s why the CV sheet we have to sign when we are admitted is colored differently. Ever notice that? It’s not for OUR benefit. It’s for the junior staff to ensure they know which paper is the essential one we have to sign No Matter What. We have to be coerced into it No Matter What. So because they can’t be trusted to memorize “conditional voluntary” written on top of the page, the paper is colored differently. After all, cumulatively speaking, the staff are far less educated and less intelligent and far less insightful than the patients.

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  • Gabi I recall when my late boyfriend believed he was a “federal agent” I went along with it. I listened to his entire fantasy about his work as an “agent” and all that that his “assignments” entailed. I kept on listening and if something sounded scary to me, I said so and asked him if he also felt scared or threatened. He said he did. We talked through all of it and I never said “That is not true.” I never tried to prove him wrong nor rationalize nor minimize anything he told me. ALL of what he said was based in reality, and actually much of it I never realized until years or even decades later. For instance, a lot sprung from his anger over my ECT. I was barely aware that I’d been damaged by it, but he was painfully aware that the person he had known may not come back from ECT fog (I did!).

    Another thing I perceived at the time as being unrealistic was his claim that the drugs were “poison.” He insisted they were “bad for him” and he did not want to take them. He spat them out and hid the spat-out pills from the staff. One day, he handed me a wad of them that he had spat out, saying, “These are poison and I will not take them!” I didn’t know what to do except walk away and toss them out in my trash.

    Now, well over a decade has passed and in my heart I know he knew exactly what he was talking about. He knew. Even after he finally agreed to take them, which he agreed under much pressure, he knew deep down they were killing him.

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  • I just read about people who are trauma survivors feeling like their lives are going to be cut short, having a feeling of imminent death that isn’t a suicidal urge but just a feeling like you do not have much time left or a feeling of urgency? Does anyone else have that, too? I have had that myself and I thought it was a “new life philosophy” that I developed after I was deprived of water in a hospital. But I am beginning to wonder if maybe it’s a result of the trauma. I always feel like I have to rush, and that started after MGH deprived me of water. After that I had a lot of trouble getting people to believe me or take me seriously. I hope someone reads this.

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  • What is mentally healthy in one culture is considered out of the norm in another. For instance, my parents were like other WWII parents and did not share emotionally with us kids. This was the way that parenting was done back then. By the time I got to therapy, my therapists came from the next generation, so they claimed my parents were “emotionally distant.” This was not true. They were most likely warmer emotionally than most parents of that generation. Therapists compared our parents to theirs, and any variation was by definition “abuse.”

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  • I know here in the USA the FBI keeps records called NICS, this is a record of people who cannot own firearms and one of the parts of this is MI, but it’s only those who have been court-committed and I suspect this would only contain some of us who have been court-committed on certain types of sections. Apparently you can write to the FBI to see if you are on this list. You can even ask to be taken off. I wonder if you could state that being on the list affects your employment and housing status (and possibly all sorts of other things, education, ability to get a loan, etc) and this is why you want to be taken off.

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  • Chaya, just one little point. If a person is truly starving then you’d better not give that person candy. This, sadly, was a misunderstanding when the American soldiers came upon some starving Holocaust survivors. In their zeal to get them fed, they gave the starving survivors chocolate. The survivors died.

    What happened? When you overwhelm a starving person’s system with candy or chocolate after prolonged starvation, sometimes a condition called “refeeding syndrome” can develop. Usually, once it starts, the condition worsens and the person dies. It is very complex and serious, involving edema, heart failure, diarrhea, and physical lethargy. It is very hard to reverse refeeding syndrome. But the soldiers didn’t know that this would occur.

    Nowadays, refeeding syndrome almost exclusively occurs in ED treatment facilities when patients are tube fed too rapidly. This is a huge liability risk for these facilities and they are truly scared that patients will develop it.

    All I am saying is that candy is not an answer to starvation. It isn’t that it is unhealthy food, it really can kill a starving person fairly quickly. As for helping for weight gain for a non-diabetic person who isn’t starving, it might help, but you might get a stomach ache.

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  • We have all seen the same thing. Victims complain of aftereffects of ECT, such as cognitive confusion or memory loss. We got the same response. “It’s an underlying mental illness.” I happen to recall these doctors even had the nerve to try to convince me I had been confused all my life! If we don’t improve they lock us up in State. “Severe Mental Illness.”

    However, I see Atty Karen’s point here. Will they be able to get away with making these bogus claims in court under oath? They may have lied to us knowing we were confused. They could get away with it while we were in a vulnerable state (and while there were no witnesses to challenge them). But in front of a judge is another matter.

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  • Auntie and Fiaschra, I would think that the fact that such a list exists is a human rights abuse in itself. Some countries do have lists of people who have committed certain crimes. In USA there is a list of people who cannot work in health care (I found it!) and a list of those who cannot work around children, I imagine. But different countries do things differently. What have the so-called SMI actually done? Where is the evidence? What crimes?

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  • Dang, Fiaschra , I gotta laugh at their “guesswork.” When I went to Gould Farm in 1984 and told them as plainly as I could, “Eating Disorder,” they said that wasn’t on their “list” so they arbitrarily told me they’d treat me for “depression.” Of course, treating a broken arm with broken leg treatment isn’t going to be too relevant. I complained that their “treatment” wasn’t working. They said, “How about disability?” Again, ED wasn’t on their “List” of possible “severe” disorders so I got stuck with “schizophrenia.” That got put on my disability form and I never saw the form, never filled it out nor was I interviewed by a third, neutral party nor was allowed a second opinion. Stamped and sealed by the end of summer. Funny, in September I started nursing school where I got straight A’s and I kept wondering, “What brain disease?” but was afraid to ask.

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  • Exactly, Auntie. I would think your ultimate goal would be to get the hell off their list. You don’t know. Future employers, landlords, banks that are going to say yes or no, people that are going to matter down the road might have access, and if they don’t now, they may in the future. Never mind the gov’t. Plus I imagine you get far worse medical care if you are perceived as SMI. Even, say, if you show up and are having a legitimate heart attack. “You’re just anxious. Go home and do coping skills and come back on Monday and we’ll take your blood pressure.” I have seen people die that way.

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  • Another thing I hear is effective is if you absolutely have to go to Western Med, bring a trusted friend or relative. Make sure that person stays right in the room with you the entire time and if the doc demands that the person leave, insist yourself that the person stays put. You can even say you want a witness, or say that this person should be a part of your aftercare or at least informed. Perhaps this person provided transportation and “needs to know information,” you can say. Really, though, the person is there to make sure they don’t pull any shit on you.

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  • Auntie, if the internet service means avoiding actual office visits, then that’s a good thing. Try for telephone doctor service. You can quietly slip into telephone only and no office. I use a Voip phone to be on the safe side. However, I never give them a reason to call the cops on me in the first place. Don’t give out your relatives’ phone numbers, either, as “nearest family member.” Not unless you want your cover blown to bits if you are ever taken to the ER unconscious. Think about it…If you are hit by a car, they will call your family. If you are worried about family members ratting on you in a moment of panic, maybe it’s time to invent fake family members. Yes, it says on the forms you’ll be booted out of the clinic for falsifying info, but they’ll deal with that after you’ve croaked someday and they have a mess on their hands because they can’t figure out whom to contact.

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  • Mental health professionals are in the business of covering up the abuse of other mental health professionals. They will never admit the faults of the other ones. They will cover for each other no matter how bad the abuse, even cover for sexual abuse done in mental health settings, claiming the patient must have been “attention-seeking” or must have a “persecution complex.” Mental health professionals are obliged like anyone else to report abuse of patients done by other professionals or staff or abuse that happens in facilities (such as physical abuse and neglect) because they are mandatory reporters. They are obliged to report these abuses by law. Do they ever? No, instead, they claim the patient needs more drugs and more therapy, and they insist that the patient is drugged into silence. Rarely does a professional encourage a patient to report abuse to the police, or file a report to the proper authority as required by law.

    These really are laws in all states. If you see abuse on the job you have to contact police. They sign papers saying this, even if you are a volunteer. This is true even if you aren’t a mandatory reporter by profession. I swear the janitors and those bringing around jars of flowers were more ethical than the nurses.

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  • Oh the media has been going on about a “blood test” lately but I checked up on that one. It looks like more misleading propaganda since what the actual blood tests are that they refer to are the ones you get that rule out “other causes” such as checking your thyroid, checking for diabetes or low blood sugar, checking liver and kidneys and for cushing’s disease and maybe making sure you don’t have anemia or Vitamin D deficiency. Funny when I went to therapy back in 1981 I sure wasn’t given a blood test at all. I was never asked to see a primary care doc that I recall. Finally my parents insisted I see one.

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  • My ex-shrink came out with a PPD book. I saw him in Bennington, VT. The book is out of print now. His name is Carl Burak, MD. I suppose he took advantage of the woman he wrote about and exploited the hell out of her. Anyway, I bet you can get it used on Amazon. I can tell you more in private about “Carl.” I saw his associate, a psychologist, Dr. Alkoff, and I never really directly saw Dr. Burak, who was prescribing, which wasn’t even legal (Alkoff relayed the info to Burak, who then prescribed, which was their way of doing things) but they claimed it was Kosher. Alkoff insisted he “knew all about the drugs.” He didn’t. He didn’t know much about anything…but that’s besides the point. I learned about Burak’s book when I saw it on Amazon. They had a racket going and I guess were rather wealthy. I suspect the trio (Burak, Burak’s wife, and Alkoff) skipped town after too many scandals. Alkoff fled to Florida, then, to Seattle. Always looked very fishy to me to have multiple licenses like that.

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  • In the USA you can get psych off your local records without getting off the federal disability payments if you can’t find employment right away. You used to be able to simply go from one clinic to another, but now, with electronic records, this is less simple than it sounds. Now you will likely need to relocate. I am shocked at how many people immediately then “share” their medical records. This is exactly what not to do. Tell them “Oh yes, I’m working on it,” but don’t.

    Then, assure them you have already done it. Tell them the records have already been sent a month ago, if they happen to ask. So surely, they have them, but they are likely filed incorrectly, right? No one is going to know. They won’t pry any longer. Don’t complain about “depression,” “anxiety,” or anything even remotely resembling it. Don’t use their clinical language for mental distress and put on a happy face. Fake out the screenings. If you spent enough years on the nuthouses, you definitely know how to answer the questions. No, no one in your family ever had an addiction nor ever attempted suicide and there’s no known mental disorder in your family, either, that you ever heard of. Prozac? Doesn’t some movie star take that?

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  • Oh, another thing….If you get a paper script, SOMETIMES you can drop it off, they’ll fill it, but you can just leave the script there, and if you never pick it up it’ll just sit there and you won’t have to pay. Eventually if they’re super busy they’ll either forget about it, you can ignore the auto-reminders and they’ll eventually toss it. Maybe they’ll just think you’re on “vacation.”

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  • Yeah, oddly, I remember they pushed anxiety pills on me for minor procedures when I told them these pills were both not necessary and had no effect on me. Also I was offered various pain pills which oddly never do much. Most don’t work on pain nor have any effect except a few make me nauseous. I’d end up saying, “It doesn’t really hurt that much, ” and they’d say, “That’s good, the pills must be working” but I never took them.

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  • Oldhead it varies from locale to locale since some folks have limited access as far as where they go to pick up drugs. Besides, in my opinion, a lot depends on who works there and the “other” circumstances.

    In my old pharmacy, I almost quit because they wouldn’t stop announcing my name on the loudspeaker when my drugs were ready. I kept telling them not to, and they would not stop. Also, buying at the self-register meant whatever I bought was announced out loud. The register didn’t name drugs but did name vitamins and other items. This was a privacy concern. People consider all sorts of things such as timeliness, maybe a certain employee who works there (and there’s turnover), knowing the pharmacist by name, or, in some cases, going someplace where they do not know you, or going out of town where you might not feel self-conscious. I knew people who felt less embarrassed going to a pharmacy where there was a drive-in, so they never had to walk in to the place. Nowadays some people get theirs mailed, but that involves risk of theft for some people.

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  • Auntie, is relocating an option? What if you left the UK for over a year? Would that possibly get you off their radar? If you can’t, what if you could get off NHS? Of course this would leave you without any medical services at all. A few can do this. Depending on your needs this could work out. Unless you have something very serious or complex you likely don’t need doctors at all. Many problems are caused by seeing them, actually. When you stop seeing them, these problems go away, or become minimal. I see an optometrist (not MD) for glasses only. I avoid contact with Western Medicine as much as possible. It is a gateway to labeling.

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  • Stephen, That’s what I was told, exactly. By a specialist trained in eating disorders. “I know you told me that, but I can’t trust anything you said because all anorexics are sneaky liars. Therefore, you must be lying.”

    First of all, I wasn’t lying.
    Secondly, there is indeed an origin of that stereotype. I do know some were affected at a young age, as young as six, who were forced into habitual lying because they were terrorized by multiple doctors, constantly hounded over their weight, forced to fake out the scale and fib about what they have eaten lest they be taken out of school and from their homes by force an locked up, possibly tied into bed and raped via the feeding tube.

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  • Steve, I heard from other kids when I was growing up in the 1960’s that in the Catholic schools the teachers were like that all the time. The stories were so consistent that sadly, we accepted abuse of students as “normal.” We knew it wasn’t right but we were just little kids. There were stories about our school and Hebrew school, too. I never got hit by a teacher but one of them took it upon herself to jeer at me repeatedly, some of the teachers’ aides, too. I was terrified at lunch time because a lunch lady picked on me every time I returned my used tray to the return window. In remembrance of her and those times I wrote a piece called “Lunch Lady Communist.” It was one of my best blog entries from back then. You can probably find it in my blog, likely dated ages ago.

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  • Are we really born disordered? Seriously? Okay, it’s “latent” and it grows and festers inside us, and then, suddenly, out it comes at some opportune time, like, say, around late adolescence or while in college. Like it was a seed already inside us, waiting to explode and wreak havoc. It does sound handy, this fake disease model, but we know it is false. No disease. Then what? Oh, these adolescent conditions which are truly a nuisance, such as, perhaps, a bit too much partying, are now suddenly deemed permanent diseases. Bipolar for life.

    Okay…But it’s my understanding that many personality traits change over one’s lifetime. None are set in stone. I read somewhere here in MIA that people’s personalities are even totally unrecognizable decades later. How many politicians and people in high places are now rather embarrassed over how they behaved in their younger years, and would not want the public to see their adolescent escapades as permanent character defects?

    Held accountable for crimes? Of course. But just playing your stereo up loud….big deal.

    Many people I know personally have gone through changes over the years. I knew people who acted reckless and now are not. I knew some who were shy and now are much less shy. I know a few that were predicted would never marry, but then married happily, are quite outgoing and had many children.

    “I didn’t inhale,” said the the President. Sadly, our overly critical public eye actually was going to judge whether or not Clinton smoked pot when he was a kid. Let the man without sin throw the first stone. I remember how my college dorm smelled back in the 1970’s. Like…um…incense, right? And now many states are legalizing it…..

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  • About time MIA addressed the trauma we experience as a result of treatment other than “drugs.” Such as imprisonment where we are treated like a nonhuman “thing.”

    Friedman is right that most therapists and trauma centers assume “abuse” means parental abuse but when I talk about I mean abuse I got from while inpatient and from some of my doctors and therapists. There is nowhere for us to go with this, nowhere to talk about it. No forums. No support group. No place. You only hope someone will listen, but if you try to talk about that effectively ends the conversation.

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  • My experience with CVS was the following, not in order of occurrence:
    2013: While I was inpatient at Mount Auburn Hospital, I was asked by the attending physicians which drugs I was on. To be totally clear about this, I wrote them down on paper. I also said the names and doses aloud. I also stated that I had picked up two prescriptions in person at my local CVS on August 11, 2013, a day prior to my hospitalization. I was on the medical floor for kidney failure.

    The psychiatrist came back into my room later, pointed his finger straight at me, and said, “You are a LIAR!” Then he said, “I called CVS myself! They said you were not in there on Sunday. They said those are not the drugs you take!”

    For the next two days I was given drugs I never took, some cocktail that didn’t make sense that I refused.

    It took those bozos two days to figure it all out. They had misspelled my name and between them and CVS they had not even verified spelling, date of birth, address, etc. Mental patients aren’t worth it.

    The inpatient doctor did not apologize and the entire staff there continued to abuse me until the day I left. About six months later I walked into CVS and the head pharmacist apologized but I don’t think she fully understood the potential implications of a name mix-up like that.

    Earlier in 2013: A pharmacy assistant “advised” me not to take a drug my psych had prescribed for sleep. This was an antipsychotic drug Latuda. He said it was too new to be safe, and there was no evidence that it would help with sleep. I never filled the script.

    All the years I went to CVS, I know in my heart they cringed seeing me on those massive amounts of drugs. I know they saw me get really sick in the end. They saw people die. They knew, and I bet they hated having to fill scripts for elders knowing that filling them wasn’t really curative after all. They were taking part in a lie.

    I have hesitated to apply for jobs like that, where I have serious ethical concerns about what I am doing. I remember I questioned working for McDonald’s, which I was forced to do when I could find nothing else. I know some people can’t find work elsewhere. I’m speaking as a daughter of an engineer who worked many years for Raytheon. I know my dad struggled with that sometimes, too.

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  • Peter, Your work here is so amazing. This post should be up on MIA as a permanent page right up next to “The Case Against Antipsychotics. And I ask why on earth you’re going into “counseling” (as I see in your bio) when we need someone like you to fight these folks at the level of the courts or the FDA. Get your voice out there in mainstream media.

    And everyone else, share this article. I wonder what would happen if it were quietly passed around in pamphlet form at a large teaching hospital outpatient psych clinic. (Of course, on the outside of the pamphlet it can say something harmless like “free patient resources”)

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  • Interestingly, there are no rehabs, that I know of, for people damaged by ECT. Unless, of course, you count state “hospitals” where they hide damaged people. Or nursing homes. Or we don’t see them or know of them because families are invariably advised to “disengage” due to the patient’s “grave mental illness.” The rest are rehabbed only in our memories. They are gone.

    There will never be rehab until there is public acknowledgement that ECT causes brain damage. What they often claim, post-ECT, is that some new underlying, latent mental illness suddenly and mysteriously appears out of the blue. Rehab for a fake mental illness won’t address the real harm that has been done. Until the truth is acknowledged and faced head on, and confessed by these criminals, I fear we will lose many more precious lives.

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  • I plan to post a review of my own at some point.

    Anyone who publicly posts a review should be careful to comment on the book itself. A review is not a debate about electroshock, though a reviewer might describe the book’s emotional impact (which in effect reveals the reviewer’s position).

    I should add that my observation of product review sites in general has been that they’ve been co-opted, and I don’t even know if that is the right word for what has happened. Vendors are realizing that consumers rely on these sites to make purchasing decisions. Some review sites are better than others at deleting fraudulent reviews, whether positive glowing ones, or negative ones that are untruthful or defaming.

    Amazon, in turn, has tightened up and is making sure reviewers actually purchased the product. I believe Amazon requires a login to post a review. Still, I am finding that Amazon reviews are now far less reliable than they were only a few years ago. I receive far too many emails from vendors literally bribing me to post a review, offering me a free product, etc.

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  • Registered, that would be nice if those principles were consistently practiced. They are not. I, for one, as patient, not as any hired person, was threatened because I told the truth in my blog about things that happened to me inside a mental hospital. I told the truth that I was deprived of water at Massachusetts General Hospital. They found out. Am I allowed to be human? Is it natural and perhaps, understandable to be traumatized after life-threatening water deprivation and subsequent denial that it ever happened?

    Yet these doctors told me I had no Freedom of Speech, no human rights, no rights at all. No right to write. They told me I should take drugs so that I would be totally blocked from my ability to write, from then on. Silenced. That didn’t work, so then they attempted to incarcerate me long-term and abused me again, and denied me medical care and denied me knowledge of my own medical condition.

    So they have the natural tendency to occasionally blow their tops, and that’s okay, but if we do…or even come close…in person or online…guess what happens? Hey, Facebook!!! Yoo hoo! Cute little “report” button kinda conspicuous there. Do I see a double standard here?

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  • Registered, I had to do a search for your comment. I think it is excellent. I hope my response posts properly underneath your comment. This is an old blog by Dr. Berezin (I don’t know if my spelling here is correct even). There are a lot of psychiatrists’ blogs out there and many are seriously scary.

    If we read in *their* literature about how threatened they are about patients getting online and writing blogs and using social media in general, what about doctors using social media? Many psychs use pseudonyms but some do not. I keep wondering what would happen if their employers discovered their blogs.

    Some write very well but many do not write well at all. There are some that clearly are pissed off at their workplaces and rant in their blogs about how terribly their workplaces treat them, how boring their jobs are, how they hate treating patients who are nothing but addicts, on and on. Do their employers see these posts? Some I’d say break HIPAA! What if their patients saw these posts, HIPAA violation or not? What then?

    How would I feel, as patient, if a doctor I trusted posted that she hated her job? I remember my doc told me once how much she loved being a psych. But then, I read online that she hates her job and hates the patients. Gee.

    I do believe in honesty and transparency, but I also believe that in professionalism and tact. If you are being paid to be polite, be polite. These docs are being paid to have manners and ethics and this includes online ethics. Don’t call your patients, or anyone, a “cretin.” That’s just plain rude and unprofessional. If you truly hate your job, please just quit. Isn’t there a psych shortage? I see psych job postings all over the place. Take your pick. Even overseas, if you’re in trouble.

    Years ago, I was online and browsing at random when I saw a comment cross-posted to Facebook, that is, this was not a comment on Facebook but cross-posted. The post was about maternal abuse. Some kind of article by a woman whose mother was controlling. Right underneath was a comment, about a paragraph long saying, “My mother was controlling and abusive, too.” Roughly those words. This was written by a former therapist who had abused me, with her professional photo, and set to public.

    Now, of course, I knew exactly why she had felt the need to be so insanely controlling of her patients, and why she had very clear narcissistic tendencies. She had never resolved this ghost from her past. She transferred it onto vulnerable people, and claimed it was “life-saving care.” This is therapy? This is a professional? God help us.

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  • Ah…my paternal grandma introduced me to Chagall. She had a collection of his work, and I am not sure of the format, but my memories of her showing these works to me date from very early on. I believe she also had a Chagall hung on her wall. Undoubtedly not an original but it was worth something. All the Kramer sisters were artistic and one was a professional artist. They all lived to be very old, if I recall correctly. Some of their kids are still living.

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  • I know a few people who refuse to read nonfiction because they see it as too technical, too difficult to understand, or perhaps even too academic. Many associate nonfiction with their negative memories of “school” and therefore, fear it. They prefer a chance to escape into something totally make-believe. And yet, a fiction writer is more obliged to write “believably,” while the public demands that a nonfiction book “reads like a great novel.”

    The best fiction slips shining gems of truth within its covers. I remember when I was a student composer (before psychiatry) I learned about composers who wrote brilliant music under terrible regimes, under the pressures of Nazi Germany and behind the Iron Curtain. You do hear the message, sometimes even in pauses between notes. They say prisoners write on toilet paper when they have nothing else.

    I believe this is what we, as a group, are doing. We are scratching out poetry on whatever we have. We are living in times of incredible silencing. Toss it to the wind. It may fly far.

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  • I think those tests are bullshit. I have taken Myers-Briggs and I don’t see that answering it one way or another makes a person “abnormal” or anything else anyone should worry about. I have been putting in several applications each week. If the employer asks me to do an online personality test I immediately end the application. I refuse to do those as basis for hiring. Then, right away, invariably, in my email or even text message I get something like “You forgot to complete our application!” Yep, privacy invasion! I have to “unsubscribe” from these bozos.

    Just today I had to “flag” a job offer. Again. There are scams out there. This one was a job that paid, but paid people to do illegal, unethical work. Sorry to say, taking a job like the one I saw would put me in on shaky ground to say the least, as I would be knowingly partaking in illegal behavior. This was more than selling products that were inferior, it was far worse than that!

    As a person who has been working hard to secure a job I have run into more scams in the past few months than I have in my entire 60 years of life. If I were to total percentages, I’d say I have to wade though these offers and postings and of what I see perhaps 75% are ripoffs, bad jobs, and scams. You can’t even trust Glassdoor and Indeed anymore as the bad employers *sometimes* oversee the postings there and pay to get fake positive ratings posted. Likewise, I’m seeing some companies with overwhelming, over-the-top bad ratings, and yet I’m asking if those, too, are legitimate.

    Now given all this….If I were looking for a job in earnest and had a great deal of schooling behind me and now I were asked to outright lie to customers, what would I do? The lie, to snag them, would be that they had a permanent, invisible and unprovable illness. My job, as employee, would be to lie to them, and lie to their families. Another part would be to sign legal papers attesting to the fallacy. The papers would imprison the victims, but I’d have to play-act as part of my job that the prisons were actually hospitals. “Treatment centers.” A lot of my job would involve brainwashing, but this would be called therapy. I would prescribe dangerous drugs, and have to lie and call them “lifesaving medications.”

    Now today I flagged a job because as a writer I believed the job was asking me to do something illegal, that a writer and human being would get into a lot of trouble knowingly breaking the law. As a doctor, knowingly being told to deceive people, I say, FLAG PSYCHIATRY.

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  • Yes, Olga R, blame on the companies that have produced the drugs and have been well aware of the risks and have understated them, and also, the doctors like David’s who fail, time and time again, to warn patients of the risks, or, like mine, outright deny or ignore when patients point out warning signs.

    I did not generally get such strikingly terrible effects from these drugs. However, when my weight doubled, this was ignored. When I got ataxia, this was ignored. When my bones thinned, this was ignored. When my kidney levels were so low I nearly died, this was ignored. The only drug that caused me to feel like I was going to explode inside was a tricyclate antidepressant, imipramine. When I reported the effect, along with rapid heartbeat and raised blood pressure (up 30bpm higher and 30 points systolic and diastolic both) I was ignored. I told the doc I felt “racy” and “angry” like I had a “bass drum inside me all the time.” She told me this was “nothing” and to keep taking the drug. I couldn’t take it much longer so I asked an inpatient doc to take me off. She did. She did so in three days! That was some taper!!!

    So now it was March 2012. That horrible bass drum beat never stopped and I was truly wondering what the heck was going on. June 2012 I made plans to kill myself. I flunked that one. Screwed up my plans and didn’t tell a soul.

    When I ended up in the “hospital” due to something unrelated, I found the “staff” did not listen to me nor wanted to understand. They walked away from me in the middle of a sentence! They didn’t want to know. They didn’t care. They didn’t even want to help. I left, totally disgusted, and never told them about the little suicide plan I had just narrowly escaped. Weren’t they supposed to help with that stuff? How ironic! In fact, I never told a soul for another six months. By then, it was a moot point. No one gave a shit anyway.

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  • Sandra, I have an MFA in Creative Writing and precisely what I am professionally trained to do, and love to do, is to look over book-length manuscripts, and I was specifically trained in memoir, to write memoir and personal essay and teach writing. I vowed when I finished my master’s training in 2009 that if anyone wrote a “madness memoir” I would happily look it over for free. Then of course I walked out of psych and all hell broke loose in many ways. I guess some folks got used to me being a “patient.”

    I would love to look over your manuscript! I cannot believe anyone would refuse such a thing. Get in touch via my blog and we’ll figure something out. I do rough reads and closer reads both or whatever a person needs.

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  • Yes I was using Wine and running a number of programs but Wine does not always work and I ran into incompatibility with my devices and also, difficulty trying to see the computer screen. With Windows I have less trouble all around with accessibility. I am using as many open source programs as I can. Actually I have not purchased any programs since I purchased this unit. Also, with Linux, many programs had this terrible keyboard lag and I type very fast. I could never resolve that. Now that I have switched back I am realizing just how annoying the keyboard lag was, and how much it hampered my writing. It was in all my programs, not just in the browser, and I use a wired keyboard. I am sad I had to switch back, but I learned so, so much from using Linux, including how to install an OS and many other useful skills.

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  • Uprising, that’s fine, but a few people get help from the pills, too, and they don’t experience negative “effects.” They might argue the same, or they might say…

    I had bad pills but I also had some that helped.

    Does this mean we should ignore that the drugs wreck some people’s lives? They don’t wreck everyone’s life, only some people’s. Therapy ruins more lives than is reported, and therapy abuse goes unreported and abusive therapists keep on practicing. Just because there might be a few good ones, should we discredit the massive numbers of patients that were harmed and call them nuts?

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  • Sandra, The CIA doesn’t even care about most of us. They can’t follow every single person on earth nor even every human in the USA in detail, nor want to. They don’t care about little ole me. I am sure of that. I’m nobody of interest. I’m not a suspected terrorist. I doubt you are.

    The reason why I say this is because to follow and track every single person would require a large database. Their computers cannot handle such a database. Ever notice how often the post office screws up mail forwarding? That is because their computers cannot handle the sheer number of people in the US. More often than not, right? They screw up that yellow sticker, or assume you don’t live where you live and you have to sort it out or the census mixes you up with someone else. Now I have had two postal screwups, one that caused me to nearly have my bank account closed. Another cost me money because I was assumed for six years to live at the wrong address and I was barred from opening certain accounts, such as one with UPS for about ten years.

    The good part is that they really do not care. I’m nobody. Just an old lady, not a suspected terrorist nor crook. And more I cannot post here. I don’t care if websites track me via cookies. They track other people too, millions of people all over the world, and it only matters if I get arrested and accused of certain types of crimes.

    I have had the cops come to my home many years ago and accuse me of future dangerousness, even ask me where my weapons were. However, they came with no warrant, no paperwork, and when they accused me of posting on a site, they had no evidence that I had done so. I hadn’t posted what they accused me of! I explained the email I had sent, which they had no copy of, and in fact they had never even read it, nor realized that the contents contained no threats of violence.

    Someone had pushed the panic/paranoia button, clearly.

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  • Well, then, I, for one, do not endorse therapy. I cannot agree with those who claim therapy is great when I do not see therapy doing great things simply because therapy might not use drugs.

    I see therapy causing dependency, addiction to therapy, abuse, outright unethical practices, complete ineffectiveness (this is hard to prove, in fact), loss of life functioning, unemployment, disability due to chronic unemployment, encouragement to use drugs, coerced diagnosis, forced diagnosis, forced higher level of care, very bad habits including self-disclosure, threats, bribery, accusations, gaslighting, sexual abuse and seduction, and more.

    MIA rarely takes a stance on this due to the proliferation of therapists on this site…therapists provide an income…they more often publish a therapist than take a stance.

    I say NO MORE. Therapy addiction is harmful, causes disability, is literally killing people, and needs to stop.

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  • Frank, I can’t find your other comment and I know I should be posting under that one. While it is obvious that drugging causes earlier deaths, causes disabling effects such as diabetes and more, we cannot ignore the rampant corruption in the therapy and “help” industry. I know this from my brief stint as “life coach.” While my training was genuine and did teach good principles, in real life I’d say for sure, ethics go out the window. From what I observed in over three decades as insider/patient, therapists totally love to get people hooked on therapy! This is how they make a buck, and about the only way they make a buck. Get clients, get customers, keep your customers. Get your numbers up, which is another way of saying ensure they show up for appointments otherwise you lose your job. Bribe, threaten, lie if you have to. I have seen them charging insurance for appointments that never happened, or making claims that dubious therapy methods are actually effective, then, when these methods don’t work, blaming the patient for their “attitude problem” or claiming the patient “isn’t ready for therapy.” And sexual abuse is so under-reported it is a joke. The patient is psychotic or has a personality disorder or looking for attention.

    The harms of therapy alone are undestated here on MIA. They kinda have to be since so many MIA subscribers practice therapy themselves. I have talked to a few. They claim therapy is great since therapy does not use drugs. Some are clueless and have never heard of therapy addiction. They don’t even realize that therapy causes dependency on therapy, that is, they are teaching terrible habits without usiing a single drug.

    I know a few patients who actually think it’s great they got off drugs, but they never learned to make their own decisions because they’re hooked on therapy. They turn to case managers to make any decisions for them, or to drive them around like they need chauffeurs (because they never learned to take public transit) or do their cooking, cleaning, and grocery shopping for them when they need to learn to do this themselves. Hey, Now We Are Six….But the mental health professionals didn’t like it when we reminded them we’re legally adults and have adult human rights. Because if we were allowed to do for ourselves and end the insulting handouts they’d be out of a job.

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  • Steve, if incarceration is “BAD” then why are they pushing for more “hospitals” and why do so many people call it “care” when it’s not?

    I talk to a lot of people who have never known what it’s like inside one of those places. When I reveal to them the very basics, that the wards are locked, that people stay for months at a time never seeing daylight, that people are deprived of human rights, treated like animals and the therapy consists of Bingo games, they are shocked and they tell me this is an outrage. “Why is this still going on?” they ask me. “You mean our taxes pay for this?”

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  • Of course they use cookies! All sites do. They have to to run a site. It’s not malicious “spying.” It’s just how websites work. Anyone can clear their cookies anytime they want. Some people have their browsers set to clear cookies and cache every time they close their browser. The disadvantage to this is that IF you do online banking your bank will not recognize you and will ask you to re-identify yourself all over again. In the case of online banking, for instance, the cookies are used to make sure it’s you, and actually protect you from fraud. While MIA doesn’t collect data by maintaining actual lists, websites that have users and visitors, especially ones that sign in cannot function without cookies. This is to protect the users, too.

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  • I distrust most psychotherapies (that is, “talk” therapy) having been badly harmed by an abusive one, actually several that were abusive or just outright incompetent. Therapy promotes dependency, if not on anything else, the therapist. Therapy is extremely addictive. You get addicted to self-disclosure, which is a horrible bad habit, a habit you need to button up in many social situation and find, suddenly, you can’t due to years of that terrible habit. Talk therapy induces helplessness, sometimes far worse than psychiatry does. My psychiatrist only met with me once a month, while the therapist insisted on twice a week and insisted on forced weigh-ins, threatened me constantly, and coerced me to play with children’s toys, claiming it was “role-playing.” She made me change chairs, and talk to the stuffed animals in baby-talk. If she could get me to cry, that, she claimed, was “healing.” No it wasn’t, it was satisfying her intense and very sick desire to control her vulnerable patients. I suspect she had a controlling mother and was just transferring the abuse. This she did with no drugs whatsoever, just with threats and manipulation. It was pretty bad narcissism, but I do not use such labels, it was a behavior. I refuse to excuse her unethical and illegal behavior by claiming she had a disease that caused it. I cannot submit myself to therapy again.

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  • LittleTurtle, i can’t find the comment of yours that ended up in my email, but I agree that there is a biological component. We cannot deny our biology. I can’t deny that I am short in stature and this of course led to my being teased a lot in elementary school. Wearing glasses at a young age also led to further teasing. Having dark skin causes many people to be discriminated against, and has for ages. If you have Middle Eastern appearance you might worry about flying because you could be suspected as a terrorist by TSA. All of these social reactions to people’s appearance alone shapes how we interact and view the world. If a person has had a stroke, injury, or heart attack, that, too, is biology, and cannot be ignored, either. I don’t think the Movement ignores these biological realities. In fact, we know psychiatry fails to recognize when a person’s biology caused discrimination, exclusion, or alienation, but gets called a mental disorder by mistake.

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  • Sandra I feel the same way. I am free of them but I don’t talk about it with anyone in the clinical sense. I stay away from doctors. I have a lot of friends now that I just tell, though. I can even say it in public. “I escaped my psychiatric diagnosis.” I don’t know why. I’m not afraid of saying that anymore. I don’t say it to a doc though. No way. That is the route to lockup. The express route.

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  • Lawrence I am laughing because you said during medical training you snuck into the “meds” drawer and took one of the pills! Ha ha! And then, slept a few days. Really, you should have rented a bed in the nuthouse. I don’t think they charge much per night if you stay there. You could have billed taxpayers, no one would have noticed. They must have had room service and a nonsmoking room for you, no? Or were you …ahem…SMOKING back then? Smoking what? You know they restrain you for that, do you not?

    Either way, if it made you sleep a few days, imagine taking several of those per day, building up a “tolerance,” then, having to take a higher dose since you were “tolerating” the drug, or, because the drug made you pace. They needed to “medicate” the pacing, after all. They do that. Then what? Suppose then, you “tolerated” those drugs. Then, they’d add another drug, then, you’d spend a few weeks in a nuthouse “stabilizing.” By then, I think your medical career would have been long gone out the window.

    Then, some three decades later, this is what will happen. You’ll notice that no matter what, you can never, ever sleep. Never. Pills or none, you can’t. Your body cannot initiate nor sustain sleep no matter how tired you are, because your body completely forgot how, in all the years those drugs did it for you.

    You are now 65 years old. You are constantly exhausted. Your marriage is hardly worth it since you lose your temper all the time. You have alienated your neighbors and friends. You and your wife decide to separate. You can’t get a thing done during the day. You keep nodding off, and yet, you can never ever sleep.

    You have decision to make. Is life really worth it, living in constant exhaustion, constant nether-world? You are alone now. You suddenly realize that taking all those drugs, all those years, somehow did this to you. You feel deeply enraged, that you were cheated, duped, and that you were robbed of everything decent any person could ever have.

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  • Well there are indeed self-righteous folks out there that claim you can heal and get very blameful and claim you didn’t “taper” right and if only you listen to some know-it-all young person who claims to know exactly what it’s like to be an older person…I gotta laugh. They are clueless and sometimes arrogant, too, and I am tired of hearing about how there’s some “right” and “wrong” way to taper. I honestly do not want any further lectures from someone 30 years younger than me about how to breathe, when to breathe in and out, how the fuck to cut a pill, how to buy a pill-splitter, when I was alive decades before they were and breathing just find before their egg and sperm ever met. I was in a nuthouse before they ever took a pill, well before Prozac was even invented. I begged for the stuff, too, fell for the hype just like we all did in there. For most of us, those capsules did not do a damned thing anyway, and the SSRI idea was abandoned early on. It did about as much as snapping an elastic band on your wrist. Nothing. Not for me. I felt it was over-advertised, overpriced junk. What a disappointment.

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  • That I know of, Steve McCrea, they’ve proven the drug damage to brains in autopsies. I am saddened that people have to die to prove it. We may only suspect or guess brain damage and it may slowly still be happening undetected, as we lose small pieces of our lives. We might not be able to add figures in our heads anymore. We can’t do calculus but who cares? We lose at chess when we used to be able to beat a computer at it. We used to have 200 digits of Pi memorized and now…it is all gone. Or we had all the species of North American birds, even the extinct ones, memorized, and now, we cannot remember the meanings of simple vocabulary words. We could knit with our eyes closed. Now, nada. We cannot cry anymore. No one gives a shit. It didn’t matter, did it? It doesn’t. Years and years go by, but then we know for sure when a person is irreparably damaged as still living people, as TD, seizures, or dementia. And then it’s too late. AND STILL called mental illness. AND DRUGGED.

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  • I can’t find the comment about brain damage by dragon slayer. It is hard to prove brain damage on a living person, easier on a cadaver. Either way, psych drugs damage the heart, damage the thyroid, damage the kidneys and pituitary, cause diabetes mellitus, cause massive weight gain, and more. Oh and can cause seizures, double vision, other eye disorders, possibly blindness, hormone disorders, bone thinning, sexual dysfunctions of all sorts, reproductive harm, poison breast milk, harm during pregnancy and during nursing, and outright kill an elderly person or very young person. I personally have damaged kidneys, damaged thyroid, diabetes insipidus, permanently poor quality blood that is always anemic, scary low GFR (and I plan to refuse dialysis), and according to my naturopath, the reason I can’t sleep is due to damage to my pituitary. As far as I know, the massive amount of “antipsychotics” I was given that I dutifully took for years caused permanent rebound insomnia and there has been no improvement in that for 7 years. Apparently I am not the only one! This runs rampant!

    Just last night a very kind and sympathetic “professional” with whom I spoke over the phone suggested I try to obtain medical marijuana, which I have not yet tried, and since this person is local I very well may enlist this person’s assistance in finding a physician who will prescribe a strain that will sedate but will not cause me to restart binge eating. This is the first time someone has listened to me, believed me, was concerned, and suggested a workable, reasonable and soon-to-be legal solution to this, considering my age and circumstances.

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  • Steve Mc, that, is precisely what I was saying in my Eating Disorders piece (which Dr. K says he does not agree with but I think he and a few others just did not understand!). If you starve, I mean very very seriously starve, you will then get “stuck” into a very bad dieting cycle that is hard to get out of and can last a long time. This was proven in the Minnesota Starvation experiment. Starvation causes a diet cycle. This, of course, is why people are stuck on yo-yo diets for decades. They can’t stop, can’t lose weight, can’t seem to control themselves, and this isn’t gluttony nor perfectionism nor a mental disorder, it is a dieting disorder. It happened due to a diet, due to starvation, which kicked off a bad cycle. Unfortunately, you will appear to have a mental disorder if it gets really bad. You might act depressed or even racy or hyper, or lethargic. In elders, anorexia will be misinterpreted as Alzheimer’s and this happens frequently I imagine. You cannot think straight if you are eating 300 calories a day, nor can you tell a doctor really what is going on, and next thing you know, you’re in a nursing home called incompetent and unable to care for yourself.

    This IS biological, misunderstood as mentally caused, but it is caused by a diet, by poor nutrition, erratic nutrition, gross nutritional imbalance, electrolyte imbalance, dehydration, no nutrition at all, diabetes, organ failure, or being massively overweight or so underweight you can’t think straight anymore. When I almost died and wasn’t eating I was unable to dress myself and unable to braid my hair anymore. I let it hang loose and I could barely stand up. Then my kidneys failed and they called THAT a mental disorder. I had no potassium left in my body. They were very stupid.

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  • Is it more productive to say “antipsychiatry movement” or “psychiatric survivor movement”? Both get bashed by pro-psych groups but there’s a difference.

    I am confused over what is “neurodiversity” because some of them talk about “I’m bipolar so please don’t stigmatize me.” I cannot align with this line of thinking, but I feel obliged to respect it because right alongside it is “I’m an artist so please bug off.” or, “I’m a little different and that is okay.” Which I do agree with. Or, “I hear voices, let me do this.” Which is fine by me. I don’t align with “bipolar” since that is a disease proclamation, unless of course the word is intended otherwise. But then, of course, we are getting very confusing here.

    Plus I am starting to get involved with other groups, too. Such as anti-bullying groups.

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  • Steve I agree, it IS criminal. I have heard “patients” insist that they do not want to know the side effects and they are perfectly happy with the limited information given to them by their doctors, even knowing that information is only a “partial list” of effects. I have challenged this over and over, asked why they do not want to know, why they insist on being blinded like that. They say to me, “Oh my god, YOU are not a doctor! How dare you!” But why NOT know? Why should a patient not be informed, and doesn’t a patient have a right to all information and to transparency and to the real risks, so he/she can make an informed choice? It’s like they don’t want to know because they know if they were informed, they would make the RESPONSIBLE choice not to take the drugs, but they want to absolve themselves of adult responsibility and instead, keep the doctor as babysitter. I think deep down some realize this and want to stay dependent children. And this is why they get so accusatory at me. However, by all means, David would not even have had a clue, never having taken these drugs before, and having had no prior exposure.

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  • Slayer, I am thinking specifically of when I was harmed, though temporarily, by ECT in 1996, I did not admit it, even to myself, for over a decade. I assumed it was mental illness but I never agreed with their BPD claim. When I published my memoir in 2009 I still thought it was “illness” but I left it as undefined. It took a while. Then, I figured it out. That is a very long time.

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  • Slayer, you make a good point that many who are victims of the drugs resort to using psych’s terminology instead of properly identifying the drug’s effect. Misplaced blame is common in tragedy as it is. We default to what is easier or more comfortable to admit, even if it means fooling ourselves at first. Grieving is not easy, and I know so, so many that delay it for decades.

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  • Dee, my experience likewise. I think due to budgetary concerns the “groups” got considerably worse after the early 80’s. The therapists were not very well trained, if at all, after that. They started those “worksheet”-style groups that pretty much anyone who had as much as a junior high school education could lead. The worksheets were ready-made groups and I recall seeing the group leaders shuffling through the worksheets and saying, “Which one this time?” “Did they do this one last time?” “Shall I do this worksheet, or that one?” “Will they know if I do this one again?” “Shall I just play music and have them do ‘relaxation’? They like that, right?”

    I always knew when these programs got paid by the head, because we either had to sign a paper saying we’d attended, and we were pushed into going (so they’d get paid more), or, someone would stand outside and write down who had shown up. Medicare paid for each of us. I cannot believe playing music for us was a group.

    Not only that, well-meaning friends of mine would call me, back when I did, in fact, have friends that called, and they’d say, “Oh, how are the therapy groups, are they helping you get better?” I didn’t know what to say to that. I tried to explain, but so often the staff were near the phones. Once I recall I tried to explain to a friend, tried to say, “It’s not really therapy and all they do is–” and I tried to hold back tears, but the staff member stopped me, interrupted my phone call and insisted I get off the phone immediately. They never wanted anyone revealing what a shithole the place was.

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  • Dee, after I was called schiz, my parents went to the doc and complained that I didn’t seem schiz to them. So the doc, Dr Merrifield, met with my parents and me (my two brothers were not present at the time) in a family meeting and he stated, with much to-do, that I was BIPOLAR. Well that got my poor mom cheering, actually, cheering with some relief that I was not schiz! From then on, though, I was doomed to be bipolar, for the next five years or so. I studied bipolar and acted bipolar. I was never manic but when I was happy they called it mania. I was mildly depressed because they didn’t recognize that I had an eating disorder all that time, and were incompetent at treating it, so there were times that I was in an ED-type fog, that likely resembled depression to anyone that saw me.

    Then they did ECT in 1995 and 1996 because my insurance was running out. Now I was dxed with schizoaffective and the added BPD to explain away the effects of ECT. They claimed I was “faking ED for attention” at the time. I lived with the schizoaffective, of which I had no symptoms whatsoever, until I left psychiatry altogether (escaped the country) in 2014.

    I think it is sad that the whole time, they were totally convinced I had a psychotic disorder and they were flat out wrong. Oddly, outside of the institution, such as at school or in situations where I did not reveal my dx, people didn’t seem to see me as nutso. This was what got me the idea of relocating, and got me realizing that relocating was going to work. It got me realizing that if you do not act like a nut, you are not a nut. If you are not seen as a nut, you are not a nut. And furthermore, if you do not talk like one, that is, if you do not describe yourself with THEIR language, you aren’t a nut. This involves inventing (or leaving out) a history for some of us if we are approached by a medical professional. And if you refrain from using substances that risk your sanity, such as booze or mind-bending drugs that could cause you to do or say something you might later regret (as in driving drunk) you are not a nut. It is not worth the risk. Are these things that complicated? This is how to stay out of a nuthouse.

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  • That doesn’t make sense, Steve S. What does in fact make sense is if you sit and do nothing for decades, or do only very passive activity, what they call sitting on a couch (instead of reading, writing, playing chess, playing football, exercising, riding a bike, playing an interactive game, listening to music, doing art, knitting, praying, working a job, fixing computers, shooting baskets, raising kids, etc) then maybe your brain won’t work as well.

    Brains work better if they are used, and the parts of your brain that you do use will get better as you continue to use them. I have not used the math part in many ways that I used to have, and I suspect it has not stayed developed due to years of disuse.

    Should I give up reading and start to use a “screen reader,” what will happen? I suspect the part of my brain that reads text will shrink after a few years. Even though I truly struggle to see text, because my eyes do not work well, I don’t want to lose the reading/writing part of my brain! So I don’t resort to “screen reader.” I keep it very strong. Or try.

    I feel sorry for patients who are coerced into believing they are disabled. I feel sorry for those that believe they have brain diseases or fall into a place where they become unmotivated. I feel bad when they do nothing but watch TV and smoke. I did that a few years because I believed I was schizophrenic and good for nothing else. I smoked and waited for my “shows” to come on. Wow I could never live like that now.

    I smoked and waited for the doctor to call. I remember sometimes waiting all day. He didn’t call. There were days I was afraid to leave the house because I was afraid i would miss his call. I would wait five or six hours.

    Then, the moment would come. I remember hearing the phone, putting down my cigarette and rushing to pick it up. It was him.

    “Why don’t you just take a Thorazine,” he said. Then, he hung up.

    So that was it. After hours of waiting.

    That was my life when I was 27.

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  • I think what MIA forgets is what their readership consists of. They remember their “regulars,” people they already have as usual readers, but they forget the “out of the blue” readership, those that come in from outer cyberspace. These are the more important readers. These are the new readers who perhaps just left a horrific experience in a hospital and are desperate for answers. They are readers who endured decades of psych and are finally, finally, waking up. They are readers who finally found MIA after years of being brainwashed. This is exactly where I was in 2013 when I first found MIA, and frankly these are our most critical people to reach. I think these are the readers who matter most. We need to think of these very fragile and frightened readers before anyone, frankly, before the seasoned readers who more fully understand the principles, because those that teeter in indecision are on the brink of returning to psych. If we can reach them, we can help bring them to sanity, bring them to make the decision not to go back to the hospitals and doctors offices. But if we do not reach them, alas, we lose them.

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  • Stephen, when the slaves die of kidney failure from the drugs, where do they stash the bodies? They must stack hundreds of them each year in a tower somewhere in utter shame. Most who took lithium don’t even live to be my age, so taxpayers won’t even have to worry about paying for their dialysis. No worries about wasting money on “those people.”

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  • Lawrence, I haven’t given up, but how am I supposed to react when my pieces are turned down over and over? Keep trying when it’s futile? Send in a piece and somehow strip my own name sign it “MD” or “Sera Davidow” and then, see if that changes their view of it? Sign it Kelmenson?

    As a writer, I figure my job is to move the reader from point A to point B and that means stirring up the pot. That means shaking up what people already think, and making people ask questions they have not yet asked. If I only please people, I’m not doing my job. And if I see something, and I do not say something, I am not doing what I swore I would do when I got my degree. Or probably years before that. To me, writing is a sacred thing. And likely that oath that was never put to me on paper is more sacred than that Hippocratic Oath the doctors never ever follow.

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  • How is eliminating psychiatry eliminating biology? That’s not logical. Psychiatry doesn’t address “biology.” Psychiatry, or, rather, its “care,” diagnoses people with mental defects according to arbitrary standards that have nothing to do with biology, then, uses these non-biological standards set by rich white guys to designate who will lose their rights. For life. Who will be declared disabled. For life. Who will be out of the workforce even though they are likely plenty capable. For life. Who will never earn an income. For life. Who will be separated from society, shunned, called “dangerous,” or predicted as “dangerous’ based on nothing biologically sound, nothing scientifically reasonable, only guesswork…for life. This, decided in a few minutes…decades ago. This, decided by a signature. This, decided because someone got paid, because someone needed an excuse, because someone decided to do it for convenience and nothing more. Because someone wasn’t willing to open their mouth and explain the whole nasty truth of the matter. Or listen. Or care. And for that reason, lives are wasted, people die, and no one ever knows.

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  • Stephen, it was only very recent that “patient” learned how to use the internet due to the proliferation of the “smartphone.” Before that, “patients” were not getting online. This meant the online world was “safe” from patient infiltration. It also meant that most patients did not have access to the wealth of information accessible via the web, information about the drugs that had been kept from us for decades. Of course, we could have guessed, but the Web verified that they KNEW all along, they knew the drugs caused organ damage such as kidney failure, they knew about heart damage, they knew about QT damage, they knew about diabetes and TD, but they failed to inform us, or told us it was a “trade-off.” The web also allowed us to connect with each other despite physical distance between us, connect and communicate despite being financially unable to meet in person, even some who are locked up can get online and “talk” to others. This strengthens us and scares psychiatry, and challenges them in a way they were never challenged before.

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  • Lawrence, Much of what I send in to MIA they either ignore or reply that my writing is “too basic” or “too personal.” I sincerely hope my writing is deeply personal and very basic, and I don’t want to prostitute myself by not writing basic and personal stuff. That is my point. That is what many of my blog readers appreciate, and the object of my writing and how I was trained, in my graduate studies in creative writing, to write. I worked very hard to earn my master’s degree, too. I read 60 books, wrote countless term papers, did a teaching practicum, wrote a book-length thesis (which got published) etc. I still write a ton. My writing has yet to find a home outside of my own personal blog…And apparently MIA is not going to be that “right match.” We have come to an impasse over and over and they just don’t want the kind of stuff I write, degree or no degree. Survivor or not. They want statistics instead, which I don’t want to write. It’s not my forte. I have to accept that, pissed as I am, and move on. It isn’t easy to let go and accept it.

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  • I apologize that I have not kept up with all the great comments here and have in fact only been able to read some of them. So I have missed a lot.

    Right now my focus and main work has been on the gross fraud of coerced disability and coerced unemployment since 10+ years of being put out of the workforce, or even a few years, depending on which field of work you’re in, inevitably means you are unemployable even though you are capable of working.

    After I was called schiz, I had to go buy a book on schiz (I bought the Torrey book) to see how a “good” schiz should act. I wondered why I couldn’t hear voices. I kept listening and listening, twisting my head different ways, and still, I couldn’t hear them like a proper schiz. I even turned down the radio. Maybe that would do it. But no. Nothing. I wasn’t good enough, I figured. Why couldn’t I hear them? What should I answer when the doc asked me what the voices said? Fake it?

    Institutionalization robs us of the ordinary skills that people gain from being immersed in the workforce. Working people may hardly be aware of this. The simple gesture of the handshake is absent in the institution. After 30+ years of intermittent lockup, I had to teach myself to shake hands with people! No one taught me this gesture! You don’t go up to your boss in the workplace and ask for a frozen orange. You don’t excuse yourself because you need to put a paper bag over your head. You don’t cry and share because sharing is “letting it out.” You don’t bring a stuffed animal to work and role-play with it. You don’t go ask your supervisor for a “PRN,” because if you do, your super will ask you what the heck that is. Thankfully, I knew enough not to do these things. I laugh at how useless the “skills” were that we were taught. These were not skills, they were a way to stay mental patients.

    If you ever make it as far as a real job interview you’ll have to invent decades of work history and you’ll need to be creative about it just to get your foot into the door of this thing called “work.” Good luck.

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  • I think psychiatry itself is well aware of the harms it does. It is well aware of the harms of institutionalization, and well aware of the harms of the drugs it and pharma have created (even before the drugs are released, or they are certain suspect) but as soon as they do cause harm and anyone points out the obvious (such as patient death) they shift the responsibility of their crimes onto those they harmed. It works every time. It works even if the patient is alive. It’s called Mental Illness. They lock people up for that.

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  • I did, for a long time, feel like kicking myself for believing the lies. I felt like a fool. I felt embarrassed that I had been duped. I felt jealous of the younger survivors who got out so much sooner than I did. I felt like a fool for letting them walk all over me.

    Now, though, I know that each of us was in different circumstances, that some are more easily able to walk out than others. I no longer ask myself why I stayed in. I know why. I know I stayed in year after year hoping that “the right one” would show up who could cure my eating disorder (which they apparently did not know I had!). “Next year, they’ll figure it out…” I said that to myself, over and over. “This admission will be the one.” “This doctor knows, not like the others.” “This will be the pill that stops the binge eating.” Little did I know, they weren’t trying to cure my ED, they were trying to cure nonexistent bipolar and schiz I never had.

    Somewhere in Fiddler on the Roof, Tevye keeps saying, “On the other hand…” and gives in to changing cultural demands, part of the plot. But one day, he blows his top and says, “There is no other hand!”

    There was no other hand for me. Probably water deprivation was the last straw. I think people walk out when it gets to the point of there being no other hand left, and that point is not the same for everyone, just like we grow taller at different rates. While I sure wish it was sooner for me rather than 34 years down the line, I’m glad it happened and glad I’m still alive.

    I don’t blame myself anymore. I ask how I can help others get out sooner, or not go in at all.

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  • Aw thanks, and thanks for writing this article. I can only hope that those who “reported” me would read what you wrote, especially the person who pushed the panic button after reading a very old blog entry I wrote which consisted of me only fantasizing.

    That day, when the cops showed up, I noticed that not one cop had read the actual blog entry my friend was referring to. My guess is that they were unable to find the entry and instead of trying to do so, just took her word for it. They ended up letting me go.

    After that, I went to my friend’s forum and read what they said. They called me a non-person. They said my dog should be taken away from me and I should be locked up for a long time! They said they wondered why I wasn’t and they said I was very very dangerous and warned each other to lock all their doors. I gotta laugh. They were thousands of miles away from me. This was a sad example of group paranoia directed and objectified at me, and I hadn’t ever threatened them. They blamed their problems on me and turned all their anger toward me. I’ve never been violent. I just wasn’t brought up that way. I had to relocate to get away from all that, and get away from the paranoid cops.

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  • That I know of, MIA editors are concerned that spammers show up who post stuff marketing items that have nothing to do with MIA content. They do have to delete spam content. They also have to delete or “moderate” anything that goes against their policies, and they are transparent about these policies. I don’t see anything about their sending the cops to a user’s home. If they collect geolocation it is likely only because they have nonprofit status, and likely have to report where users are located (roughly). They may also do this for editorial purposes. They want to know which countries people live in. If many speak a certain language they may decide to expand to offer a part of MIA in that language in the future. We now have MIA in Brasil and MIA in Finland. Maybe next will be MIA in French for those who live in Quebec and other parts of the world where French is spoken. All websites do this and it’s not to “spy” on people.

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  • i mean don’t you guys get it? DON’T LOCK PEOPLE UP! That’s what this blog says. Locking people up harms them. That and nothing more. It’s the elephant in the room all-too often ignored by activists who insist on adding too many spices to the soup, too many arguments and complex statistical data no one can understand but the issue is in fact very basic. Why should people who have only asked for help be locked up? Put behind locked doors? Incarceration defies logic, yet taxpayers pay for these so-called “hospitals” and actually want more built.

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  • I think people are misreading this blog. I don’t see victim-blaming here. I see psychiatry-blaming and honestly, despite my differences with MIA editors I highly doubt they’d publish something that was damning of patients. Such writing won’t float here. Read it again. I believe Lawrence is right on the mark. Institutionalization causes dependency. Very basic. Very obvious. Very overlooked because it’s so obvious. He is not saying that psych takes advantage of people who are weak to begin with. He says PRECISELY what I say in my own personal blog outside of here (because MIA won’t touch my stuff) and I’ve been saying for years. Psych, particularly at the inpatient and “day treatment” level, consists of heavy-duty brainwashing that causes dependency, causes long-term reliance on “staff,” causes a person to defer to whatever the doctor says, causes a person to default to “patient mode,” and causes a person to assume without question that he/she is unable to work, incapable, and disabled for life. Is this the victim’s fault? NO! This is caused by the horror story called psychiatry. This should be a wake-up call, and not a reason to sit here and bash yet one more great article coming from MIA.

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  • Carlene, I suspect that you are right. People call the police with no awareness of the possible consequences. More and more are being trained as mandatory reporters. I question their training, whoever it was that reported since you made it very clear that you were not at imminent risk.

    I have had this happen also. This happened due to misinterpretation or misunderstanding. For instance, use of a metaphor taken literally, or, a fantasy or musing taken literally, literary reference (there are certainly plenty of murders in novels!), use of the word “suicide” in a sentence taken completely out of context, a note on my fridge that contained the word “suicide” with no intent whatsoever (I question the reading comprehension ability of the cop who found the note!), blog entries that were not current (can people read dates?), Facebook posts that were misconstrued, etc.

    It has to be imminent risk, according to the law, according to any mandatory reporting law as applied to suicide. I ask if it is self-importance or lack of ego on the part of the person doing the reporting, a desire to be a hero or savior, or some kind of control issue going on.

    I did call the cops on someone a while back because it wasn’t “risk.” Someone was being beaten…domestic violence. So I had to decide very quickly. I’m not a mandatory reporter but I did call. The decision was not an easy one.

    Another separate occasion a man chased a woman with his car, out on the street in late afternoon in a bad neighboorhood on a Sunday, nearly running me over in the process, then he got out and chased her on foot while she screamed desperately that she was going to call the cops while she was running from him. He was snarling something very aggressive-sounding I couldn’t understand. I was very afraid. My phone was out of battery. I listened as I tried to get from the vicinity away myself, and from what I could hear the woman did indeed run to safety, indoors somewhere nearby. I cannot see well enough to get the license plate number, nor even guess anything about the type of car. “Sedan.”

    This is not the same as “in four months.” Jeepers. Common sense.

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  • I think our movement…if we have one…has started to examine the drugs very closely and turn its focus on drugs more than it did before. Of course this needs to happen, but there are consequences. Was it okay to take us out of the workforce? Okay to lock us up in the name of treatment, or okay to put us in housing where we never interacted with anyone but other mental patients? Was it okay to put us in a new fake world where we learned that some people were “staff” and others were “patients” and never the two shall mix, a black-and-white scenario that taught us to think like that, black and white, now a new mental illness for which we shall be soon blamed forever?

    That was institutionalization. We learned that “staff” were the authorities. We learned that they knew everything. We learned to go crying to them whenever we had the tiniest problem. We learned that we were patients who couldn’t do a darned thing for ourselves. But the handy staff did it all for us. They drove us to appointments, found “providers” for us, called us to remind us of appointments when we really could remember anyway, brought us our drugs and reminded us to take them when we were perfectly capable of remembering, and even read aloud to us stuff we could read ourselves. We got “help” playing children’s games. We were handed stuffed animals and told to role-play, encouraged to carry stuffed animals around in public and encouraged to talk baby-talk. We were encouraged to bawl like little kids and then, told we needed “therapy” because we had cried.

    Therapeutic groups were charged to Medicare by the head, sometimes over 50 dollars a head. Sometimes this consisted of watching a filmstrip or video and then, several minutes of discussion afterward. One staff would be in the room, a “staff” who often did not even have a college education. It wasn’t necessary. Staff were called “smart” by default, because they were staff and because they had rights and because they had keys to the unit. We patients usually had far more college education than the staff running the group, but we were too polite or too drugged to say so.

    I rarely got through a hospitalization without enduring a game of Bingo. We had to be supervised for these Bingo games because we were considered dangerous. The Bingo board was generally oversized, which baffled me because very few of us, if any, were vision-impaired. The instructions for playing were over-simplified, told to us as if we could not understand or as if the game was so complex that our defective brains couldn’t possibly comprehend it.

    Some of the groups were worksheet-type groups. This of course made it easy for the junior staff that had no clue how to run a group. All these staff had to do was read the worksheet as a group, alternating, and then, have the patients fill it out. I personally found reading the worksheet aloud insulting since most of us did not need a read-aloud. I knew that the read-aloud time was only filler for the staff, who didn’t know what else to do with the group time. They needed to claim all this was therapy, after all.

    There came times during my patienthood that I became insulted by the selection of groups available to me. So I complained in various ways. “The groups are insulting.” “The groups are beneath my educational and maturity level.” “The groups have no relevance to real life outside the institution.”

    What happened? I was told, “You clearly cannot handle the groups and therefore, need to stay longer.” “You cannot cope with the groups. They make you too anxious.” “The groups are too challenging for you.” “You are paranoid.”

    My favorite remark was the following: “You are incapable of sitting in a room full of people.” This was told to me by John Gunderson. This one cracks me up and I wish I had tape-recorded it, because I believe this remark alone reflects the entirely of psychiatry’s incompetence.

    These days, I compete in public speaking contests, have no stage fright, and plan to compete more in the coming months and years. I get a lot of compliments, too. I love to speak in front of an audience and I do so whenever I get a chance.

    I’ve been talking about institutionalization for ages in my blog: http://juliemadblogger.com if anyone wants to come over and have a look.

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  • There are a number of us who seem to have permanent insomnia from taking the drugs. People are saying heavy doses of sedating drugs will totally destroy one’s natural ability to fall asleep and sustain the sleep state even with drugs, or without them. Ten years on the drugs does sound about right to cause permanent rebound insomnia. I have been affected and I have great difficulty sleeping at all. I noticed this starting to happen while I was still drugged many years ago. It never ever resolved nor got any better. I waited a full five years and saw no improvement, and tried everything I could. I had to make a decision finally. I did not return to psychiatry nor resort to prescribed drugs, mainly because staying unlabeled is very important to me. But I didn’t want to be an exhausted bitch, either.

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  • I am not sure about the last statement, that whatever fallacies or shaky bits of logic are stated in the psych textbooks are somehow shaping scientific thinking. That doesn’t necessarily seem logical to me.

    I think this is a cultural issue indeed. Many people are embarrassed to discuss it and in some circles, bringing it up (one way or another) is considered offensive. We aren’t supposed to use certain words.

    I’m saying this from the point of view of someone who grew up deeply ashamed of being smart (or in any way talented) and felt I had to hide it, especially since it got me teased a lot. It takes its toll. Not the teasing. The fact that I felt so ashamed.

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  • Steve I am noticing (since I am getting older) that elder issues are a hot spot for both right and left. I would say that both are extremely concerned about elder abuse and are on the same page. If we can state that many elders are psychiatrically abused and state how this is done (gaslighting especially!), then I think we can win over both sides.

    Tell them…How would you feel if your mother or father was abused in a facility? You will get a reaction. Then you can state that abuse can mean accusation of suicidality, or incarceration not only in a nursing home but on a mental ward, or shocked to death, or given pills that kill them. And state how often this happens. On both left and right they are aware of nursing home abuse….we can tell them about psych abuse and that it runs rampant.

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  • Wow thanks for the good laugh! I read their catch-phrases and wonder, too. “Modest effects.” Like what the heck? They tend to use vague or non-quantitative language, of course for darned good reason. Not only can depression not be measured, but since when is it an entity, some sort of bad area, bad cells or bad chemicals they could actually identify in the brain that can just be removed or zapped with electricity or drugs? They know. They are very good liars. Who makes money off the Lancet? And how is it funded?

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  • I have been thinking about retaining ones cognitive abilities in general and why some people are able to remain (excuse me, this term gets to me) “sharp” in their senior years, and others are not able to. Obviously the issue is so complex I don’t think science fully understands, but I am thinking lately about brain plasticity…and the following:

    People ask me why I do not use a screen reader. A screen reader is a way to “read” text by having a voice read the text instead of using my eyes to read it. This sounds nice, and I know it helps people, but I do not want to do it even though reading can be tough sometimes. I continue to read quite a bit and strongly prefer text over video-style learning. I believe I should continue doing this. I KNOW a part of my brain is in charge of reading and writing text. I believe if I stop reading text I will lose the ability (over time) because that part of my brain will stop developing…or functioning well. I have psych and ECT to thank for all the text I write….in a rather bittersweet way I must add.

    In fact….While after ECT I really started writing up a storm, I REALLY wrote like crazy after they abused me in the hospital in 2011…And even more after I was threatened and told NOT to write (by both psych and the cops!). Screw em. I won’t stop till I die and I credit psych because I am alive in spite their “treatments” and threats.

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  • streetphoto, it looks like a case of the new clinic (the University one) not having an understanding of what eating disorders were, total ignorance on their part. Yep. They very well may have done a thorough mental health screening on her at the U and totally not asked about her eating. You could call it either stupidity or neglect. Most MH screenings don’t cover ED! That’s how I went 30 years through the system misdiagnosed myself.

    In late December 2011, I showed up at Mount Auburn Hospital in Cambridge, Massachusetts after I had not consumed any calories (not eaten) for six days. I felt dizzy and weak and honestly, was a little worried since my weight was around the danger point. This was disregarded and I was told “You feel dizzy because you have Generalized Anxiety Disorder.”

    What? I was 53 years old and NOW they give me some new diagnosis? I was handed an information sheet on GAD. Then they told me, “We want you to leave since other patients have more pressing issues than you do.” I was not even offered food nor told to eat nor given an IV. I left the ER, was very out of it, could not find the exit door, which they had to point out to me, and finally, caught the bus home. I could NOT believe what had just happened.

    Less than two years later I nearly died in that very same ER (I coded, and I don’t have much recollection of the exact time frame, obviously), likely because they saw my complaints as trivial.

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  • Psmama and cat, I believe we as a culture are taught to fear saying “I am sorry.” This is basic good manners. However, we fear apology and are told to avoid admitting we are wrong. Since I realized I was wrong for three decades, I now celebrate apology. I love admitting my errors. I celebrate the right to change my mind, switch gears, or plod onward to Plan B. Sadly, most of society stubbornly clings to the delusion of its own faultlessness.

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  • One time, the psych told me, “Okay, we will allow you one word only.” Literally!

    And people wonder why I fight so hard to be heard, even when it is no longer necessary. Why sometimes I don’t let others get a word in. Why I am terrified of being cut off. I credit psychiatry.

    I don’t know if the fear they instilled in me will ever really go away.

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  • I remember being interrogated at many meetings they held while I was inpatient. Ten doctors and me. They would grill me. During that time I was often belittled, shamed, even mimicked. I recall that even if I asked to be given time to speak I would be cut off before I even finished a sentence. In my own defense, if I anticipated such a meeting, I began writing papers so that I could “get more words in.” They would refuse to read the papers I had written. One time, the doctor hastily ripped the papers out of my hand, and then, faked it that he was reading them (he couldn’t have read my handwriting that fast!) allowing each paper to fall to the floor as he did so, and then, made some irrelevant comment indicating he had no clue of the content. I was jeered at. I heard them sigh with boredom. They rolled their eyes when I spoke. When my parents were brought into session, they belittled my parents.

    That was torture. It was torture to poke fun at me repeatedly, torture to make me look incompetent, torture to make me stumble on my own words and torture to needle me unnecessarily and then, claim I had an anger problem.

    I owe psychiatry a lot. Because of these torture sessions, where I had to present myself before these idiots, I learned to survive their interrogation, even though they made me feel like crap. I am now an excellent public speaker. Shall I credit them, or myself?

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  • Catnight, I also cringe when I hear sirens, as I, too, was hauled off. I especially fear ambulances. I cringe at flashing lights. I am very fortunate we just do not see them much around here where I have moved to. I believe this is because the county is so poor. Likely the “force” is understaffed. They are busy enough with house fires and car accidents. Where I used to live in MA, I saw them all the time, it was crazy.

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  • Same here, psmama. I went right up to the head nurse and told her that telling the patients that Zyprexa was for “anxiety” was illegal, or at least unethical, that Zyprexa was not FDA approved for anxiety, and to outright lie and tell them it was for that, and really, they were giving it to put weight on the unsuspecting kids. was total fraud.

    I have been hoping to have black box warning on Zyprexa and Seroquel because these will backfire if given to anyone with history of anorexia. They WILL put weight on, but weight gain isn’t recovery. So…of course you know this…The weight gain leads to Revenge Anorexia…As I put it. I know many who, after the Zyprexa (or Seroquel) weight gain, then, dieted like mad because they were rightfully PISSED OFF. Revenge Anorexia will literally kill a person. I have also heard of a few who developed bulimia in act of Revenge against drugging with drugs like Zyprexa.

    And I told this to the nurse. She said the ends justify the means and they needed to put weight on the patients. Because the insurance companies demand it. So she said lying was perfectly okay. The short term result was what mattered, she said. Really? Maybe because they had not yet been caught breaking the law.

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  • psmama, I saw so many young people cycle in and out of the ED places and come out worse each time, yet they continued to insist they needed the “treatment.” I woke up one day realizing the “treatment” was the problem. The “treatment” had caused most of what ailed them, and had perpetuated their ED’s. I agree totally that personifying ED as “Ed” is like kindergarten and totally insulting. It is like creating this false Devil, setting up the Devil as a scare tactic, and telling very vulnerable people that “If you disobey, the Devil will get you.” This is scary similar to what is done in brainwashing religious cults. “If you leave the cult, the Devil will get you.” Or, “If you stop treatment, you will Relapse.” Here, Relapse is the Devil-character that snatches people up. The scare tactics in ED treatment are rampant. “Don’t trigger each other!” in other words, don’t talk human rights or Ed will get you! which is bullshit.

    I went through it with them, too. As soon as I started talking human rights they tried to silence me. They didn’t succeed Then they tried to discredit me in the eyes of the other patients. They called me psychotic and paranoid over and over. It was traumatizing to say the least.

    I applied to speak at the recent NEDA conference and after I accepted the invitation, two months later, after I was sure it was for real, they contacted me and informed me they had just figured out who I was and they were uninviting me. Their claim? That I was “not recovered and would trigger others.” Obviously, none of them knew me well enough to determine if I was recovered or not. This was not the reason. They did not want any talk of human rights at the NEDA conference, that was the real reason! So how was I to take this? I see it as a stripe on my uniform. How many get UNINVITED to the NEDA conference, after all? Am I that powerful? Wow!

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  • I cannot find psmama’s comment. Psmama, I saw the horrors of ED “treatment.” I know what happens in ED “treatment” when you try to speak up for your rights. Any mention of “rights” is labeled a mental disorder. It sounds like you went through horrible torture and the “treatment” harmed your family also. My heart goes out to you. I want to thank you for posting here the truth here even though I cannot locate your post right now.

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  • Rachel that is funny and the reason why many journals have a “blind submissions” policy. For those of you who do not know, “blind submissions” means the submitted articles are stripped of any identifiers, any names, anything that would identify the writer, and then, handed to the editors who decide what will be published.

    That said, I wonder what would happen if psychiatry had a “blind diagnosis” policy. Strip the person of other diagnoses he/she has been given in the past by other docs. Actually, they do this as part of the Board Exams. They play a game called “What’s My Diagnosis” (like “What’s My Line” from the 60’s). I was called upon to be a guinea pig for a mock board exam. So I, at the time, had a diagnosis, or shall I say, coverup diagnosis, of Borderline which was used to excuse the confusion I experienced after the shock. This mock board exam took place approximately a year after the shock. I was still going through transient periods of confusion and the doctors, assuming my cognitive troubles were permanent, were now thinking “STATE HOSPITAL.”

    Now, little ole me, rail thin, but never mind that, was presented to a nervous fourth-year resident who was practicing for his What’s My Diagnosis game. Just a practice run. The nervous resident, watched via camera by many other residents, interviewed me. He was asked to come up with a diagnosis.

    I left, and they handed me a ten dollar bill.

    Months later, I ran into this very same resident, who had now passed his exams. I asked him how he did with “guessing” my diagnosis, wondering, since I knew in my heart the BPD was false, what on earth he had guessed. He did not reveal this to me, but said, “I fear I did not do well on that. My guess was way off. And they told me so.”

    Hmm…eating disorder, and consequences of ECT, maybe? Gee. Sadly, at the time they believed I was “faking ED for attention.” Very sad.

    I hope he is reading this right now. Dear young zealous doc, you should have stood up to them.

    I don’t recall what I did with the $10. But I am sure they would be VERY unhappy to learn that it has been written up into this amusing story.

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  • Wow Stephen, what a story. You know, back in the day, what kids did, what many of us did, was graffiti, and it was relatively harmless.

    I don’t know if you guys remember the absolutely beautiful Simon and Garfunkel song about graffiti. The song is only one minute long. I think it is called Poem on the Underground Wall. I believe they are referring to a location in Chicago.

    The song can be found on youtube and it is about expression of a young person feeling totally disenfranchised. So many of us did, and the young person in the song was speaking for us all in that flash of a moment. The “poem,” the word written, is not said aloud in the song. It is not necessary.

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  • Wait. Some people claim atheists are deluded. Many claim theists are deluded. Shall the battle lines be drawn?

    What would some people say if I were to say I was raised without the belief that Jesus was the Messiah? Was that also a psychosis? We had no concept of “trinity.” No concept of “son of God.” This was incomprehensible to me.

    Was my dad delusional when he said we could not mention the name of Jesus in our house? Or just putting his foot down, sick of seeing his kids getting swallowed up by the dominant culture?

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  • And there’s another sad reality. Social stratification. I don’t mean solely economics. I mean in every single social group, including online groups, we have the elite and the non-elite. The “in” crowd and the “not so in.” While you may find yourself “in” in one group, you are squashed in another.

    Those in a higher social position usually don’t have to fight so hard to be heard. They don’t have to deal with finagling, hemming and hawing, stalling, and red tape. They have a clear line of communication to the top.

    Words by any other name would smell as sweet. But there are days I would love to sign my name with someone else’s name, watch the results, and laugh my fool head off.

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  • I don’t agree. Puzzle very much knows right from wrong. It may not be a higher moral sense, but her sense of whether to act or not act is based strongly in her remembrance of my approval, current or past, of that act. She will gladly do something if she is certain it will get her food or a petting. From what I have observed, I do not scold Puzzle because she reacts to disapproval deeply, not that I really know what is going on in her head. When I hear people scolding dogs I feel bad. I identify, remembering times I, too, have been shamed, so I do not do this. The fact that she feels she has to sneak to raid the trash tells me that she does know it is a no-no.

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  • Stephen, i laugh because THEY should have asked that question. I had been a slave to them 20 years and had told them repeatedly that I had an eating disorder. So in their infinite wisdom, they responded by saying, “Oh, so you must have bipolar! We’ll give you treatment for that.” This is due to the total logic of psychiatry and it’s best friend, therapy.

    For an entire 20 years they never listened, never heard, and even jeered at my complaints over my eating problems. Now, my insurance was running out which was the reason for the ECT, the ONLY reason. The reason I agreed was because deep inside, I hoped that something, finally, would help my ED. Nothing else had, none of their “treatments.” Gee, I wonder why! But I never told anyone that. Why? Because they’d just poke fun at me all over again.

    Six months later, I could barely put a sentence together.

    It wasn’t until I was 50 years old, a good decade after shock, and three decades of MH “treatments” later, that I got a MH professional, a therapist working for a community agency, to “notice” I had an ED. God bless her.

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  • Bonnie it is merely a reflection that CAPA is a mailing list and at MIA, people have to be subscribed PER ARTICLE to each article, although subscribers are alerted each week via a newsletter. So while readers may read the articles, generally, unless they comment and check the check box (meaning a LOT of email is going to show up in their inboxes over the next week, and this may go into their work email, remember…) then, they are not subscribed to the comments. Therefore, not too many people saw your comment.

    Having been through endless frustrations over years of being ignored on Facebook and wondering why, and taking it way too personally, I realized the answer was mostly practical. You would not believe the tears and endless hair-pulling I went through. “I went through so much effort to write that post, why does no one even give a shit? Why do I work so hard for nothing?” But it isn’t MIA vs CAPA. It has more to do with the mode of delivery and actual number of views.

    I would literally cry out of frustration. And I still feel like crying when I think of the amount of work I continue to put into my writing and other works, and my failures, over and over, at getting anywhere with marketing my works. I lose friends regularly. Yet I am so grateful for the handful of supporters out there. As I used to say, God bless the stragglers still hanging on.

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  • Hey there allies, I would like a belated 60th birthday wish. I turned 60 a couple of months ago but i was working a slave job on that day. On my birthday I got demeaned and belittled to tears by my supervisor. Finally, totally exasperated, I told her it was my birthday and I expected to be treated better than that. She did not even apologize. It was a hard day. There was no party for me of course….circumstances. I was fired a few weeks later due to the workplace’s refusal to accommodate my mild vision impairment. They lied about the reason for firing. i worked a job after that and then found out it was a scam. i’ve been having a very hard time since, really struggling, and would appreciate a birthday wish even though it is not my birthday. I would like people to be nice to each other. Just stop the senseless cruelty. Thanks.

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  • Bonnie, I have noticed that victims of all sorts of crimes have a tendency to avoid naming the perpetrators. “My abuser,” they say. I can’t stand that. Why not use his name? Why not say, “Bob,” or “My father,” whatever his name was? Why not say, “Dr. Michael Henry”? He was the shock doc at McLean for over a decade and masterminded my ECT, but he was not the only perp, there were those involved in the coverup afterward also, many of whom I believe I never met face-to-face as they were administrative criminals.

    We cannot forget the administrators, who knowingly shelter the shock docs, who lie to the public and to families about the cause of harm, who invent underlying diagnoses, and who claim they are faultless.

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  • When I was a kid in high school I wanted the following:

    Someone older than me that I could look up to and trust.
    A few friends that I could share with.
    My own room, or adequate privacy and for no one to read my diary.
    A dog. A relationship with nature.
    To have a future I could look forward to.
    To be able to keep my thoughts to myself.
    To make my own choices and to learn exciting new things.
    And to ride my bicycle just about everywhere.

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  • When I took the Minnesota Muliphasic Fuckup Test in 1982, I noticed a culturally biased question on the test. The test asked a question that used a phrase that I had never heard before. As it turned out, this was a colloquial expression never used in New England, where I was raised. Likely it was used in the Midwest or the South, but I had no clue what it meant. I also noticed assumptions of a two-parent family, assumptions you went to a classroom school, assumptions of ableism, and that you knew a few things about Easter. Since then I believe researchers have noticed the biases. NOTE: It may not have been that test but another one…I am recalling a Y/N test I did with a #2 pencil.

    Even back then, I believed the inkblot test was totally bogus.

    When I was all done with these tests I went back to my therapist and complained that the tests had no relevance to my eating disorder and didn’t address the issue. Nowadays, I wish I had said that a whole lot louder.

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  • Slaying and Yeah, in my opinion, criminals of all sorts commit crimes because they know they can get away with doing what they are doing and won’t get caught. The mentality is so simple it even explains why my dog, Puzzle, raids the trash. She only does it when I leave the trash can open and I am not looking that way. This is the basis for much of crime, especially white-collar such as psychiatry. They will stop if they find out we’re peeking and we’re covering the stories.

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  • Oh I see. Because although it says “we do not agree” or perhaps we are saying “This book is full of hate speech” what book-burning also does is to oppose freedom of speech. So in that sense, the act is illogical or a mixed message.

    True, if you ask a librarian, people can write and publish whatever they want. True! Problem is that this bogus book is woven into our laws, used as a legal framework, even cited as “evidence” to take away the rights of many people and even deem them incompetent.

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  • The worst thing that ever happened to me, which I refer to as Psychiatric Abuse, was being called suicidal when I was not. I was treated like a dangerous animal, restrained, and put on 1:1 monitoring. I complained that the 1:1 people were physically and verbally abusive to me and were denying me basic privacy rights. I was told I was psychotic. I was not. This was even worse Psychiatric Abuse. This is the worst and pretty much only abuse I ever went through and had very little to do with “drugs.” They gaslighted me, held me hostage, would not let me communicate with the outside, continuously called me psychotic, told me they were sending me to an institution for life, tried to force me onto Zyprexa, and finally, let me go.

    After I left, I found out my church had kicked me out, most of my friends that I had left claimed I was psychotic and that it never happened. One of my good friends sided with the hospital and claimed they were doing their job. I cried every day for months alone, hugged my dog and cried and cried and thought my life was over.

    At the time I was 55 years old. That incident may have nearly killed me, but it made me an activist.

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  • I knew right away how I would answer this question, Bonnie. I will take up an issue about which I am often questioned and which I feel might be of help to others. The Day I Woke Up From Shock.

    It was my 40th birthday. I had named the effect of the shock, The Thing. This was the name I had given the confusion, because the confusion had taken on a character of its own, as if it lived and breathed inside of me, as if it was an evil creature that refused to leave me ever since…Ever since when? It was a question I could not answer but the doctors should have answered. Of course, I know now. I didn’t know then. Since the ECT. But this they kept from me. Instead, they told me the confusion was a symptom of my “mental illness.”

    I believed them, believed The Thing to be a psychosis, even though it didn’t quite add up to one. My psychiatrist suggested I was “dissociating,” but I told him I saw no similarity between what I went through and what I read about dissociation. Finally, they had told me I was “so severely mentally ill” that I would have to be hospitalized in a state institution. That was around the fall of 1997.. I was very scared!!! I did not want to go.

    The day The Thing left me was in early January, 1998. It lifted from me suddenly. I woke up and it was gone. No more mixed-up thoughts. No more having my thoughts disappear from my head. No more having my thoughts get tangled up like my hair tangles. No more having them slip away like sand slipping through my fingers. No more scrambled thoughts. They were just like they were before. Me. I was me. And I was 40 years old. My birthday.

    Right away, I did what I had gotten into the habit of doing. I started writing stuff down. Everything. I wrote emails, because now, I had email friends. I wrote down so many things. And that day, I started my very first novel. I wrote every day and finished a draft in eight months. After that, I took many writing classes, got two degrees, and I have written about ten books since. Two of them I published. Oddly, those psychiatrists had told me I would never succeed at anything and that I was “incapable of sitting in a room full of people.” (John Gunderson said that.)

    The tendency of shock survivors to write is probably documented somewhere. If it’s a gift, it is a bittersweet one. I would like to encourage all shock survivors out there to keep on writing, keep doing it and don’t let anyone stop you.

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  • This is interesting but I can speak to this as a writer who has studied not only how to write but the process of becoming a writer or blogger. Blogging is like performing. There is always an audience, that is, some readers. Therefore, to blog means to take on a PERSONA. This means a blogger puts on a metaphorical mask when she blogs, much like an actor becomes another person when taking on an acting role, depending on the assignment. One is never exactly oneself when performing. One is always the persona. Writers refer to the persona as the VOICE. Writers often say, “I wish I could find my voice.” This means writers seeking a niche as a writer, or, perhaps, style or way of writing. Finding that voice (which can change over time) is said to be a sign of maturity as a writer, and often takes years or even decades.

    So a blogger is performing for an audience, in effect, role-playing, always interacting dynamically with readers, and for that reason, is NEVER her true self. She only shows a slice of her life, never the whole shebang. Memoir as a form is also “slice of life.” It is not the whole of life. It is a segment that is explored in depth. It is effective as a form because it is not trite nor a mere summary.

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  • Cindi, I will try to contact Marci, and thank you for the update. This is truly awful. I have been in abusive hospital situations and I know how bad it can get with the verbal and physical abuse and gaslighting and constant threats you get in those horrible places.

    I want to ask if you and Marci have been able to piece together which of the drugs you think was the culprit. Or does it even matter now?

    God bless you and people like you that stick by people during the absolute worst of times. I remember what it was like when I had no friends left because of psychiatric horrors and people called me crazy. My ex-friends were the worst.

    Julie

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  • That I know of, class action lawsuits do nothing because there is no direct statement, no direct involvement. The patient does not face the same person who harmed him and no statement of apology is made nor is any demand made for cease and desist. You might get a check in the mail for ten dollars. I don’t think that will be very satisfying.

    Instead, you have to face the offenders head-on. Who really harmed? The makers of a drug? Or the person who called you mentally ill and handed you a prescription, insisting you needed that pill? The diagnosis itself is the root of that harm. A lawsuit against a doctor will be more impactful and will make bigger waves. I think we need more of these, more attorneys should take these on.

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  • Gottstein is licensed in Alaska but may, or may not, know someone who practices in the locale where you were harmed.

    Slaying, at this point, in my situation, some of those that were involved in my situation in some fashion have relocated. One or two because I think they got in trouble.

    The doc who first put me on SSDI was found to be practicing without a license but I think he started up again in another state. Another doc, who overstated his competency, relocated twice, radical relocations, looks suspicious to me. Others have also moved….And some I left the places they were working under not-so-nice circumstances.

    I have a plan, though, Slaying. Get in touch with me. I’m trying to get people together on this who REALLY WANT TO DO SOMETHING so we can knock heads together and take action. I really have thought up something.

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  • Yes I noticed that insane “counter appeal” regarding statute of limitations. “Should have known.”

    This has been pointed out to me as well…And arguably, why do patients not realize they are not “bipolar,” “schiz,” etc, when there is no evidence for it? I think we need to argue….As Bryan has….

    We are limited in how much information we have access to in the “mental health ghetto.” We are not encouraged to do our own research. We are encouraged to “ask our doctors” for all information and never rely on ourselves or our own common sense. We’re even told we’re incompetent and “lack insight.” Many are told we’re psychotic and cannot trust what we hear, see, and sense intuitively. We are told that if we are suspicious, it’s “paranoia.” If we dare question, it’s a “symptom.” All this can be argued as to why we remained clueless of the fraud and deceit, and why we continued to deceive even ourselves when the contradiction stared us in the face.

    But would the courts believe it?

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  • Bryan I just read all those legal papers you supplied in the links. I don’t know, as you put it, if your life is “ruined” or not, as that is up to fate, or maybe what happens in the coming years and how you spend those years. You seem like an intelligent, incredibly brave, and promising young man to me. You are a role model and a hero.

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  • Martn it was in that DeMarneffe building that i took part in mock board exams. I was a fake patient for that and I got paid $10 cash. A real $10 bill, handed to me by Dr. Meninger herself for being a guinea pig. I am proud to say I was misdiagnosed because they already had me misdiagnosed anyway. Maybe the resident guessed that I was recovering from shock and they gave him an F because “What?! That’s not possible. You need to study harder for the exams, buddy….”

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  • Martn, What is a fee based program?

    I admit it was Options Day Treatment that brainwashed me into becoming a mental patient in 1981. They did this without giving me drugs, they did it with “therapy.” I started off a college student and left the program nine months later in very bad shape. I can’t believe they called that therapy. They did not know what they were doing and they didn’t know a thing about eating disorders, which was my chief complaint. It is sad because I also saw incompetency handling other patients.

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  • Thanks knowledge. I am happy that I got away from Massachusetts where I was threatened, basically told by my doctor I HAD to stop writing, demanded that I stop and insisted that I take disabling drugs so that I would be incapable of writing. Even the cops and my church threatened me which was not even legal. I suspect the church elite paid the cop to ruffle my feathers, but I will really never know. None of that was legal to threaten me like that.

    I keep telling myself that success is the best revenge. I know they did all kinds of things to try to silence me, including trying to have me locked up in State several times totally without any real reason, multiple attempts to drug me, insistence upon my dangerousness, etc. I have spoken to so many people about these incidents and the threats and much of it was not legal.

    I have put up multiple Yelp reviews that they cannot take down. I put up YouTubes also, and HealthGrades reviews and a few others that have not come down. I put up anything I can to warn others that these things can happen to YOU, too. My YouTube I did not long after I left Mount Auburn Hospital extremely traumatized (and crying too) got many hits and much support too.

    I also believe in naming the names of the guilty. Writers change names to protect the innocent, not the guilty. Sometimes there’s a fine line, if family of the guilty are involved, but we have to think of other potential victims here, too. Name the names. You will help others by doing so. Even save lives. Don’t protect a perp. The only time you can’t name a name is when you are at risk, then, you wait a while. Expose them for who they are. And be truthful and honest. That is just my opinion.

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  • Yes the so-called “bipolar” schmooze club at the DeMarneffe building. Where the more bipolar you are, the more cool you are. Let’s support our moodswings, right? I think I showed up once.

    I showed up at the clubhouse in Waltham which I think was called…let’s see…Potter Place. I really thought just the name of it sounded like kindergarten. I remember I asked them if I could learn computers. They said I “wasn’t ready.” Wasn’t ready for what? So then it was just before my 40th birthday and I asked my mom to buy me a computer (since she asked me what I wanted for my birthday). I taught myself computers completely on my own. By the time Potter Place folks called me to wish me happy birthday I had already learned how to use Windows 95, AOL, email, and whatever they had for Word back then. It was before Broadband, way before Facebook. We only had dial-up. Then I went back to college and got straight A’s.

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  • Stephen, At McLean Hospital the night staff were very unprofessional. In fact, I remember the staff being untrained and unprofessional on the whole. There was a marked difference between the “units” where the patients paid out of pocket and the “units” where patients were covered by Medicare. Huge. Medicare patients had untrained staff that had only high school education. The pay-out-of-pocket units were staffed with very experienced staff. I know this simply because I was there as both Medicare patient and also visited others, this over a very lengthy and involved period. These wealthier units had experienced staff, many having worked there over a decade. They were well-trained.

    Even the food was better on those units. They had home-cooked meals. The food at McLean on the Medicare units was about as inedible as could be. It was mass-produced, not like “tray” food you get in a community hospital that you order off a menu. They brought it onto the unit in a big container and then, dished it out. Like elementary school food. It really couldn’t be eaten sometimes. You worried about contamination.

    As for the staff…Night staff slept all night. Some quite deliberately. One of them, I recall, a woman, brought pillows with her to work. She put two chairs together and put the pillows on the chairs, just so she could sleep. Then, she put a hospital blanket over herself. The other staff, a man, ordered all patients into their rooms. We were not allowed to leave our rooms from maybe 11pm to 6am. Period. Exception may be to pee, but they would harass you for peeing even. Now this lady slept ALL NIGHT. I know this. I did get up to pee. I have diabetes insipidus and I get up every night, to pee and get a drink of water. The guy did not allow me to get a drink so I called human rights and he got in trouble. Sorta. She STILL slept through the night and would get annoyed if I walked past and disturbed her.

    The object of these night staff was to give the patients enough “meds” to ensure we slept and then, NOT WORK. The guy used his work time to study for whatever classes he was taking during the day or evening. He was not working, either.

    I am amazed that these night staff got paid. Why is it that so many people struggle to get jobs and keep those jobs, and these night staff got paid to NOT WORK and be so cruel to us patients?

    Then, maybe a few weeks later, I told my outpatient psychiatrist, “The night staff at McLean slept on the job.”

    My psych told me “That’s impossible. You must be psychotic.”

    I can’t tell you enough how harmful it was, all those years, to be called psychotic when I was not. It was like being caged forever. And how satisfying it is to be free now to write these words.

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  • Gabi, I think a lot of life has to be learned and cannot really be taught. One is active and the other is one acting upon the other as subordinate. Somehow when the learner actively self-teaches, whether or not there is a teacher who guides the learner, the learning is learned better because it is actively done. And wanted and sought after. If we are curious and want it, we will seek it, or if we feel a dire enough need we will make it a part of ourselves. It is like walking a mile a day because the doctor insists we exercise (we are likely not to!), and walking a mile each day because that is how we get to the bus to go to work.

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  • yes you do make good points. I really would have wanted peer support sooner and would have maybe been more open-minded to trying something besides the traditional approach had someone who had had ED approached me. The problem is there is very little crossover between ED and psych. And there is pretty much NO peer support for eating disorders. God forbid people might actually get better and the ED treatment places might lose money.

    I don’t think you guys realize that there really is an ED community. ED is treated entirely separately so these patients hang out together. They become “treatment buddies.” They even call themselves that and they friend each other on Facebook. Sometimes maybe 400 or 500 friends, all from these ED treatment places. Many of these are residential treatment places where these young kids cycle in and out of. Many of them go in and out 10 times a year, every year, and they’ve been doing that since high school or even earlier. They are a clique. They have their own Facebook pages. It is not the same world as psych, and they look upon psych as different (although there is overlap).

    I never saw this world until I was over 50 and I was rather shocked. I was shocked at the human rights abuses these kids put up with. To them, it’s NORMAL to be locked up and they call it “treatment.” They don’t even know that it’s not normal to be watched in the bathroom and watched in the shower. They were taken too young. I was 50 and they called me granny and were very cruel from the onset. Then they claimed I was psychotic when I started trying to point out “human rights” to them. It was a losing battle.

    Never mind NEDA, which is the NAMI of eating disorders.

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  • Exactly, Darby. It does vary from state to state and outside the US, too. Especially how each state uses “peers.”

    And, Madmom, each state’s commitment laws are different and each state’s patient rights laws are different. I come from Massachusetts where they have what’s called the Five Fundamental Rights….These I have not seen elsewhere. Most states do have a code and most do include something about Patient Respect…but this is not measurable and difficult to prove if broken. Most have basic laws about restraints that are rarely if ever followed. I am unsure if the locales claiming they do not use them really do not use them and maybe just don’t document it. The Five Fundamental Rights are very specific, a little easier to prove one way or the other.

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  • I did! We had that in my high school. We had that for many issues, including drugs, that is, street drugs, but not just that. It’s a great concept but yes, it was co-opted. It is a term used in the workplace also. Peer support is used as a workplace terminology to mean a workplace support and networking between workers or sharing between one workplace and another professionally. Such as networking between specialized nurses. If you look on Glassdoor (if you are looking for a job) and input Peer Support you are unlikely to come up with what we’re familiar with. You’ll come up with anything from truck driving to nursing to business specialties. Yes I tried.

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  • Unfortunately, cb, you are right, there isn’t much support out there but it depends on where and how you look for it.

    I know this is just me and it might not apply to anyone else. Sometimes, the harder you look, the harder it is to find it.

    And if you look for it in others, you might not find it. I used to think I needed a therapist, and I did not find a therapist. I thought I needed a friend but I couldn’t find one. I looked around and then there was only me and my dog. This was around 2012 and I had this flash of something, I wasn’t sure what. Puzzle (my dog) and I were standing together in the kitchen and I figured it was just me and her and somehow everything was going to be okay.

    Nothing was okay after that for a long, long time, but I remembered that exact moment like it was saved in a photograph even though it wasn’t.

    After that I had a terribly scary thing happen (trauma) that made me fear this thing called “help” as if it were a four-letter word. I am still scared. So whenever I hear “help” I am scared like it’s a knee-jerk reaction. I am blessed with the trauma that protects me against the help that is not help at all, but harm.

    Now I remember that photo.

    See what I am saying? I am blessed because I found the real help by shedding the false “help” and finding it instead within myself. Well, me and my dog actually. I know the idea of self-reliance is a culturally centric one, but I embrace it now as I did as a young kid when I read Emerson and Thoreau and incorporated the ideas into my own ideology. I should not have listened to psychiatry’s imposed ideas of dependency, but alas, I was swayed for too many years.

    We survivors have a lot of unbrainwashing to do, and it is a difficult road indeed. There is no help, and very little support.

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  • I agree, Madmom. I am not about to “drop out” anytime soon. Although I must admit a few people have tried to convince me to “drop out.” I tried. I really did! I really tried to NOT read anything from MIA. I tried an MIA vacation. I couldn’t do it very long. And I do not want to “drop out.” I don’t have it in me.

    I am not saying one shouldn’t take a break. Nor am I saying MIA or any “movement” stuff is addicting. What I am saying is that I feel fucking passionate about this. Why should I not? I LOVE the passion I feel. That passion is who I am.

    It is exactly this that gets me up every morning. It is this that lets me eat every day, and keeps me from starving myself, and keeps me from immersing myself in my eating disorder like I used to do. It gives me a reason to go on.

    It keeps me writing these words. And I keep on writing. It is the same passion that makes sure I never, ever give up.

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  • Madmom, Hey, do you call writing several thousands of words per day “work”? Hmm…If they threatened me to stop doing it, is it even more “work”? ha ha ha

    If they pay you to write, is it work? If you do it passionately, is it more work? If you have a degree in it, is it work? If they claim it’s a disease, is it then NOT work, but a “disability” or a “compulsion”? Do you then get paid “disability” for it? What is that they call it? Grapho…..Geez. I hope I have a lot of that. That and oppositional defiant and very disorderly please. “While you are here, waiter, could you please add in an APA protest or two on the side, and please, no salt……”

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  • And another question. Peer work. What is work? How do we define “working”?

    I have asked myself this recently after a terrible experience working a low-paying job which thankfully is over. The bosses threatened the workers regularly and bullied us, all the while claiming fairness and claiming they were “sticking to policy,” ha ha. They added new policies all the time, every few days, and claimed if you broke their policy you’d be fired. I loved the scare tactics so much. I told them so.

    Anyway……giggle giggle…..So much for company culture. Pee faster? Fast food, anyone? I gotta laugh. One worker told me that in order to eat fast enough to shorten my break I should make a smoothie for myself. Geez, was it coming down to that?

    I challenge myself with this question…What IS work? What is a good worker? Is a good worker one who obeys a boss without question and does what she is told even if she disagrees? Or is a good worker one who thinks for herself and challenges what doesn’t make sense or doesn’t seem right? Will a good supervisor do what she is told even if it means bullying a worker she’s in charge of? Or will she do what she knows is morally right, defying upper management, and instead, be fair and kind, risking losing her job?

    What IS work? Which of these constitutes work and who decides? Why should a person who is following her conscience be let go, while a person who is merely following orders be paid and kept on?

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  • I think I linked it myself. Maybe. That is the blog that made my own personal history. I say that because really way back when, no one kept a blog. I mean back in 2005 when I started. My shrinks knew but they thought of it as a childish hobby. Occasionally they took interest in it. Cell phones were not common then. Until the advent of the cell phone, mental patients didn’t have interest in doing much online and didn’t have online access. Well, I was told I was “the exception.” I kept on blogging.

    Anyway, I kept up my blog and in 2011 after that water deprivation I was not only shocked, but totally LIVID. I blogged about it but my docs barely noticed.

    My doc and Massachusetts General Hospital took notice in 2013 and that is when all hell broke loose. MGH told my doc that she HAD to drug me till I was incapable of writing about the abuse anymore. They demanded she give me antipsychotics. She told me this in April 2013 and she was acting totally berserk, right in her office in the Wang building. I was so embarrassed. All this, over my blogging. She repeatedly threatened me, demanding that I “stop writing” and told me I was a “liability problem” for the hospital.

    I had a choice. Continue to write, or give in to them. Keep my freedom of speech, or stop. What would you do? I was even threatened by the cops early in 2014, and that was similar. Stop writing, or else……

    Well? I left the country! I value my freedom of speech and freedom of expression too much to stay in such an environment where I was constantly being threatened like that.

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  • I am very very wary of anything called “disability” and rarely call myself by that label except to state that I don’t see well (and therefore, couldn’t possibly drive a car safely). Or to state that I am not very tall and therefore, need a step-stool at times. I am fearful of aligning with disability-help organizations. For instance, one in my area promised “jobs for seniors.” I am 60, so I “qualify” as a senior. However, when I called them, they grilled me! They asked me right away if I was dis-abled and then demanded to know what my dis-ability was. I refused to tell them anything and told them, “Why don’t you send me your materials in the mail?” They did. I got their application which included a place where a neighbor had to sign saying my living situation was what I say it is. And their “jobs” pay sub-standard wages, half-time only.

    This, they explained, was because it was “training for a job.” I question this seriously. If we are “seniors,” then why do we need long-term “training” for an entry-level job that others take only a day or two to train for? Why weeks or months of training? So I asked them what this “training” consisted of. They were very vague on that.

    I have passed up this (ahem!) opportunity since i fear it’s “day treatment” all over again. I fear that this “training” consists of “group discussions” and “let’s talk about it” and “how do you feel” and “pep talk” and “breathing instructions.” I really will miss the Group Hug, though…….

    If they phone me I’ll just tell them…maybe…I’m working on it….Or maybe I’ll say, “Hey, it’s in the mail…..”

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  • The jobs I looked at but couldn’t apply for required a driver’s license…These were hospital-run organizations hiring supposed “peers.” Where I currently live one hospital runs the whole area. They’ve bought out other hospital systems that used to flourish here, so now, it’s a monopoly, just like Harvard runs a monopoly not only in Boston but all over Eastern MA expanding into NH and into Maine. So here where I now live, this one hospital system runs the medical establishment in an extremely wide area, branching into neighboring states. Common citizens hate this big business unless they are employees getting paid well by them! Also, this means patient record-sharing whether you want it or not.

    Anyway, they were advertising for “peers,” but all it was was “taxi service” to appointments. That’s why they wanted the driver’s license. I do not qualify because i’m nearly blind. As for lived experience, likely a few therapy appointments counted. More than that they probably didn’t want.

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  • What I saw of it in Massachusetts, and I never visited any of the Western MA RLC programs, they really were identical to day treatment in every way. I was embarrassed and I didn’t know how to react nor what to say to the “clients” who attended. “Hey, don’t you realize you could be doing something useful with your time?” I had hoped for “alternative” meaning political activism, APA protests, education about why not to take drugs, but that’s not what was there. It was more validation of the System’s supposed illnesses.

    And breathing exercises remind me of nuthouses too much….I can’t stand the idea of someone telling me when to breathe. I am too anti-authoritarian for that.

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  • Darby, When we speak of this, why are only the “drug” stories the ones that are getting out there and the other horror stories suppressed? Why is it still called “hospitalization” when the doors are locked and people are committed by the courts, forced to stay, and even taken by cops from their homes?

    We have this recent story of a high school in Florida. They’ll talk about the about supposed “mental illness” till they are blue in the face, about how scary and violent we are, about how much they should abuse us even more with their treatments, with their force, and put us away for life and deprive us of every right we have. And totally miss the point.

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  • I was shocked when the Boston Globe published a story about a couple in Acton, MA (where I think mostly they have money) that kept getting packages from Amazon that they had not ordered. Now this was a major article in the Globe. Huh? This is the most trivial story I have seen, and THAT was deserving of a Globe reporter’s time and energy?

    I have contacted reporters. I have begged them to put my story in the papers. Why do they care more about this rich couple getting Amazon packages? Shame on them! One reporter contacted me and was interested but it sounded like she was going to put it in some very obscure paper…Still, I started telling her but didn’t get to the point fast enough, unfortunately. I tried to give her the proper medical background (assuming she’d need to know about the kidneys, no?) and then, she cut me off, impatiently, and hung up before I made it to the juicy part. “Hey, I was abused in a hospital.” I never got that far. She hung up saying she wasn’t interested.

    I can see why people get frustrated when they can’t get lawyers to sue and just aren’t being heard. When our friends and relatives claim our story is trivial (why don’t you just get over it?) and when the forums are only about drug withdrawal. When MIA will only publish four “personal stories.” When people say we have “anger problems” but we know our anger is justified. When expressing our anger is called yet one more “mental illness” worthy of therapy and pills. When talking about a mental hospital is called a “war story” like it’s a fucking taboo.

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  • Exactly, Stephen. These “professionals,” the ones I used to see, spread around that I’m psychotic and tell other patients not to listen to me, not to be friends with me, that they’ll get “triggered” from me. NEDA (the NAMI of eating disorders) is pissed at me, too. On the whole, these sell-out organizations don’t like people that talk about human rights. I’ve even seen bogus claims that talking about “rights” is a sign of “paranoia.” Some of the patients, whose lives are basically full of the contradiction we know so well have been very very cruel to me, also. I’ve had to get off Facebook at this point. I deleted my account.

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  • Stephen I can’t even find a FORUM for hospital abuse! I can’t find anything. Others are looking, too. We are not alone, there is a large population dying to find a venue. I personally was called psychotic when I wasn’t, for decades, and it is very hard to explain just how deeply harmful this is. I was also called suicidal when I wasn’t, this was acutely damaging to me, and this, too, is very harmful. I also have this deep-seated anger in me that started in 2011 when I was deprived of water in a hospital to the point of medical dehydration. I can’t just wish the anger, trauma, and knee-jerk fear away, just like that. I have a lot of privacy issues that arose from the hospital abuse. And I cannot control other people’s insistence on seeing me as disordered. It is their choice to continue to view me through their diagnostic lenses. I can’t control this, but I can choose to not associate with those that see me as “mentally ill” instead of understanding that I was deeply harmed and might have good reason to need people to bug off.

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  • I think if there was a peer support for eating disorders it would consist of helping people who 1. had the experience of struggling with eating and 2. had the experience of being traumatized by ED “treatment” (which is far more violating of human rights than regular psych “care” on the whole).

    That I know of, if you stay in longer, #2 looms larger and larger. The trauma increases exponentially and affects your eating difficulties…if you even manage to stay alive. I think a group of peers to help alleviate the trauma would certainly save lives.

    And…given the grim statistic of psych “hospitalization” increasing suicide rates drastically, peers who help by actually believing people after they leave these hellholes would be lifesaving. You shouldn’t have to leave a psych prison where you were treated like a subhuman animal, and then, go home alone and cry your eyes out for months, or fall into the hands of some therapist who will dismiss what you say and call you psychotic or call your anger a disorder.

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  • Darby, I heard sometime around late 2011 of the “Recovery Movement” which seemed to be a group of people who validated that there was such thing as “mental illness” but also thought you “recovered” from it. I never liked their ideas. They were big on “coping skills” and such. None of it related to what I was going through at the time, so I dismissed their ideas and moved on.

    Having discovered MIA sometime in 2013 in a flash I realized that others knew the same things I did, that what there was to “recover” from were the human rights abuses done to us. Whatever ailments we’d suffered from, if any, that brought us to their offices or “hospitals” were now either resolved or forgotten. For some, now, having left psychiatry and therapy far behind, we finally had a chance to deal with these problems head-on.

    The “recovery” movement avoids human rights issues. They kept saying “Don’t tell war stories!” I thought that defeated the purpose and I didn’t want much to do with them after that. It was like telling me to shut up.

    The one thing I want to do, still, is tell those war stories loud and clear so the whole world knows I was badly abused in a hospital. I don’t see the point in telling it in a therapist’s office. I want to tell a major TV station or newspaper, but I can’t pique their interest. I am still looking for a venue. Still. If I was rich or famous they’d care, but I’m not, so they don’t. There are so many of us bursting with these unresolved stories and nowhere to go with them.

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  • I am so happy that you are pursuing this, and that you pushed on to discover the lack of insurance and licensing issue.

    I, too, was caught up with an unlicensed doctor. He was the one who initially put me (and countless others) on disability payments. It was 1984 and I had been turned down in 1983. He put me on SSDI for schizophrenia. Based on his word only, no tests were given, not even psych tests. In fact, I hardly ever met with him.

    Bryan I am happy that you are able to do this before the statute of limitations has passed. For many of us, we cannot pursue a case because we’re too exhausted during the years following the harm, and the period of time passes too quickly. These doctors and the facilities that support them get away with destroying people’s lives and making money off of it.

    I hope you realize that you are young and you have many years ahead of you. You can do a lot with the PI license. I hope you use it creatively and productively to screw the field of psychiatry for many years to come. BRAVO! And best of luck with the lawsuit. This is indeed groundbreaking. Brain disease? Naw, you have chutzpah.

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  • Darby I wish I could forward this article to the peer support employers that turned me down. I applied to a number of them. Laughably, one employer made me do an online personality test, one of those employment tests they have you do to see how compliant you are. I hope I failed miserably!

    Many peer support jobs in my region require a driver’s license and they check if you have ever had any speeding tickets, etc. I asked why once and they said because you visit “clients” and drive them to appointments. Is this not a form of coercion? I couldn’t apply to such jobs even if I wanted to because I do not have a license.

    Other peer support jobs turned me down due to my lived experience. Ahem.

    One I applied to had a group interview. I noted that the other candidates did not have lived experience. They were college students, specifically, social work students, who wanted college credit for being “peer support” workers. Huh? Apparently the agency didn’t care and wanted them anyway.

    I notice that there are very few opportunities for peer support in the eating disorders field. In fact, ED treatment centers try very hard to end friendships between us. They claim we will “trigger” each other, or claim we’ll “interfere with each others’ treatment plans.” They will stop any discussion of human rights, confidentiality, or informed consent.

    I was turned down for a blogging position by an ED organization because, in their words, “We don’t object to your writing but we’re afraid you might discourage people from seeking treatment.” Yes, they were probably right. I hope to save lives.

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  • Yes, Tireless. There should have been a response decades ago. And I don’t think the response necessarily has to be from the psychiatric/psychologic community. Getting BED into the DSM had everything to do with pharma and nothing to do with “having our voices finally heard.” To believe the latter would be naive indeed. I think the response to destructive eating needs to be to take all ED’s out of the DSM and recognize them as truly serious problems. ED’s are thought of as mental illnesses and people can stop thinking of them as such (it really takes a huge leap to do so) then you see them as really much MORE serious and deadly.

    I think ED needs to be taught in nutrition schools as mainstream nutrition study. Right now, it’s not. You go to a nutritionist and they know ONLY about diabetes and kidney disease. ONLY. They might know a little about the stereotype of ED, but that’s all. They don’t really know. Nutrition therapy for ED should be covered by “insurance” for ED and in many locales it is not. A person who is suffering, say, a college student (a kid like I was), should be able to walk into University Health Services and get an appointment with a nutritionist who knows about ED. You should be able to mention ED and they should know what you’re talking about, and not give you that stupid blank stare. Colleges should have peer support communities, other kids who went through ED. Students shouldn’t have to go through a therapist to access a nutritionist and other vital services.

    I have contacted my alma mater where I developed ED (Bennington College) numerous times and asked them if they would like me to come and speak. I told them I would not charge a cent. I reminded them that students may be suffering and that having someone come and speak might reach a few of them. They told me they were not interested. I have also contacted their radio station several time asking if they wanted to interview me. I have yet to receive a response. It is disheartening, to say the least (especially since I paid all that tuition…)

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  • Tireless, ED’s are not a “middle class” issue. Stereotypically, ED’s affect the affluent, however, statistically ED’s affect people from all backgrounds. People can develop ED’s later in life and even during elder years. I don’t see ED as necessarily a “family” issue especially when a person has left the nest decades ago. Also frequent among elders is laxative abuse or at least habitual laxative use. After 50 or 60, when a person has anorexia it is so easy to misdiagnose as early Alzheimer’s, which means spending the last years of one’s life in a nursing home likely drugged and tied into a chair. One of my elderly neighbors who was at least 80 was a compulsive exerciser. She was also being abused by her daughter. She wasn’t thin. When we think “eating disorder” we see a stick thin teen and we don’t think of elders, but I have known elders who suffered, either lifelong, or developed it late in life, and I was an elder anorexic myself. I don’t see “family” as being the cause nor answer to anorexia for those of us who are older. And in fact when I was 23 and living on my own, “family therapy” was irrelevant, destructive to our family, scary for my teenage siblings, bewildering for my parents, and really a complete waste of time. Except maybe profitable for the therapists, i don’t know.

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  • I have heard so many “me too” stories in response to this article. People have written to me telling me of how they were sent to ED “treatment” (or took themselves there) and how then this “treatment” then negatively affected their lives due to trauma. I know that those of us who take a human rights stance on ED treatment are not some tiny minority! I know that many are afraid to speak out for fear of retaliation or fear that they will be refused medical treatment for other conditions, or will be shunned in some fashion. There is much pressure to remain silent on the human rights abuses in ED. I hope that people can speak out, because these abuses keep people sick in their ED’s, keep people playing those control games. It is a terrible cycle to get caught up in.

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  • Lenora…Yes, yes, and yes. I have found that many people who align with addiction model did indeed suffer childhood trauma, but we have to be careful not to stereotype or make assumptions the other way around. I think people have to decide for themselves if the model is helpful. A therapist cannot say, “You have an addiction, therefore, you must have had a rotten childhood.” See the difference? These things must be realized ourselves, like an awakening, because that way, we empower ourselves.

    I agree also that food problems such as celiac (for instance) which really creates malnutrition. There are many variations of this malnutrition and various ways we don’t get what we need, mostly without even knowing it. Also, if you found something that works, GOOD! I support finding things that work! I support self-experimentation! Try out new methods and find out what works FOR YOU! I honestly don’t think relying on “standard protocol” is going to be successful for most of us.

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  • Julia, Yep, pretty much. I remember a lot of that. Being boxed into that mini-world. Except I didn’t have it as a child, in fact it didn’t start until I was well into college, oddly.

    I didn’t end up with the forced weigh-in until I already had diabetes insipidus, decades later, which is a condition that involves needing to drink a lot of water anyway. So that complicated the water-drinking part. What a game! If I didn’t drink, I ended up dehydrated. If I did, I was accused accused accused, just for doing what I needed to to do. The only solution was to end the forced weigh-in. One therapist agreed (suddenly realized I was an adult) but the other didn’t seem to realize I was over 50. Can they not do math? Wow I really hated that. I hated getting into the johnny, the ritual of it.

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  • I agree totally, Registered. People are smarter than psychiatry thinks. People can decide for themselves IF they have access to information. We do not need the middlemen called psychiatrists, who only lie to us and give us limited information. We should be allowed to take full responsibility for our decisions. Psychiatry does not take responsibility when it screws up, after all! It blames the patient when its drugs, prescribed by the lying middlemen, fail.

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  • JC, I had the same problem with a bullying ophthalmologist. I had to be firm. “I am seeking a second opinion.” Mainly because I did not want this jerk operating on my eyes! Also, I am afraid of doctors after what happened to me. The guy called me stupid and put that in my records. When it came time to go back I called them and told them I had relocated and no longer had need for their…ahem…”services.”

    Also, when I went to get glasses, the glasses were done wrong. I had to be firm. The bifocal line was put in the wrong place. A month later, they produced the right glasses and made double sure that line was right.

    If anything ever hurts the last person I’m going to call is a doctor. That’s asking for trouble. I just wait a few days.

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  • Tireless since I didn’t purge I do not have lived experience with it, however, perhaps it is something that a person can decide for herself and ask the following question…Am I doing this out of habit, or, am I doing this because my body demands that I do this? It is highly possible that the body prepares to purge upon sensing certain cues, and actually gets the stomach ready by increasing stomach acid, or possibly gagging on cue. I know people who told me this happened very easily for them, and often when they didn’t want it even. So the person would have to ask these questions and face them very honestly. And then, be prepared to work hard on stopping. It is a difficult battle since the body wants to continue with it after you’ve been doing this for a long time.

    I know from experience that many people develop a disliking toward the feeling of fullness to the point that it becomes intolerable…and you have to work up to tolerating it again. This takes much hard work and patience.

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  • Steve I tried to sue MGH but I was so traumatized that it was hard to get anyone to believe me at first. It was hard to get myself back together. I was kinda crazed, scared to death over what they had done. A similar “case” occurred in the UK a year later to a man who had diabetes insipidus from a brain tumor. He actually phoned the cops, which was appropriate…anyway, he died of dehydration. This was 2012. It was called a human rights outrage. Me? I was called crazy for it. And yet, it was the same thing. Same abuse. Yes they could have killed me and one big THANK YOU for validating me.

    My own doctor denied what had occurred and begged me to stop blogging about it. She threatened me and told me she was drugging me to force me to stop writing. The abuse just never stopped. So you can see why I finally left the country.

    Even then, a lot of people refused to believe me and claimed I was psychotic. Some people even said the “unit” I was held on at MGH didn’t exist. Wow, they just didn’t know the real truth.

    The statute of limitations is past but that I know of, the fact that I keep writing about it smears their reputation badly enough. Writing is powerful, and it pisses them off plenty.

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  • Yes! I found it was not too difficult, once I got the hang of it. If you do not want to be labeled, do not go to a psychiatrist or MH professional. Do not act like a mental patient, do not call yourself one, do not use their language, act responsibly and when in the presence of medical professionals, don’t admit that you ever went there. Get away from anyone who calls people by mental illness labels. Make this a habit and you will not be labeled yourself.

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  • MGH’s explanation for depriving me of water was that it was their standard ED protocol, that all their ED patients had to follow it. So all the ED’s that came to their unit had to be limited to 32 ounces per day regardless. I have diabetes insipidus, which is a rare medical condition meaning that I need far more water than that just to stay alive. Limited to 32 ounces I will become quickly dehydrated after a few days, which was what happened. My real need is six times that amount, which they claimed was a psychological addiction. By the 11th day, of course, I feared for my life. I was very scared and begging for water. I was trying to sneak some, too, but they were threatening me and physically abusing me. You have to realize when you are medically compromised (I was dehydrated upon admission) it makes it much, much more frightening. This was 2011 and I left very traumatized. The trauma was denied by my providers and mistaken for mania.

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  • Another thing: Patients develop secondary problems due to ED, such as osteoporosis (leading to broken bones and growth problems if the osteoporosis happens in childhood), stomach problems, all sorts of digestive difficulties, inability to get pregnant, birth defects, heart trouble, on and on.

    When a person has stomach or digestive problems it means they literally cannot eat or can’t eat certain types of foods. Or can’t chew or swallow. It gets very complicated. I have known people who get so physically ill that at that point these physical problems are so important that I think the psychiatrists need to butt out. For instance, if your electrolytes are totally off, or your blood sugar is nil, you can’t think straight and I don’t think this is time for a psych eval, nor time for a diagnosis. In fact, it’s never time for a diagnosis. And yet, they insist. I think they are hard up for customers.

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  • Yes, I have tried to alert the MIA community and tried back in Massachusetts. No one seems to realize that ED’s are treated separately from psych or different “protocol” are used. Bathrooms are locked and often, patients are monitored in the bathroom, or even watched while peeing or defecating. Or asked to say the alphabet. Some patients are watched while showering, not allowed to shower or do anything in the bathroom alone. This is terribly traumatizing. They are force-fed via tubes, which is rape in some locales, depending on the legal definition and whether the tube is forced. Some have the tube in for a month or more, and some are monitored via 1:1 to make sure they do not take the tube out. I know from first hand experience that some of the 1:1 people can be abusive, even physically abusive or verbally. I have heard reports of sexual abuse from patients. I have also heard multiple reports of tying patients down, even tying children down, or tying them in the day room, or tying them to wheelchairs, or, demanding that they stay in bed all day. I have seen patients with total muscle atrophy due to forced “bed rest.”

    Force-feeding can lead to refeeding syndrome, which often cannot be cured and leads to patient death. You will have to look this one up. Refeeding syndrome is usually caused by “treatment.” The hospitals are very scared of this. It is potential lawsuit material. Because they are so scared they abuse patients in their utter fear.

    I was deprived of water at Massachusetts General Hospital while in “treatment” for anorexia in 2011. I ended up traumatized and have really never gotten over it. They never acknowledged fault nor apologized. Instead, they tried to put me in a state hospital.

    More and more ED patients are put in state hospitals. When I called NEDA about this a few years ago trying to help out my friends they said they don’t do anything about it.

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  • Becky, Yes! I know Jeanine and I support and agree with her work. There are so few of us out there who are at the point of realizing that these “rehabs” do nothing but use force and coercion and take your money. Years ago there was no money in ED, now, of course, there is. And because there’s money, the ED organizations are pushing for “awareness” to get more customers. But as soon as folks like me speak out we are silenced. The fact that BED ended up in the DSM is all money.

    None of this has anything to do with the fact that people really do suffer, and we’ve been suffering for a long time. MIA readers need to be aware that the ED treatment centers are separate from psych hospitals and the human rights violations at the inpatient level are far worse. They are also more expensive, on the whole.

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  • Hi Tireless, Unfortunately, since many people keep their ED’s secret we don’t have accurate statistics on it. I have seen the most insane “studies” passing as “accurate.” For instance studies done in girls’ dormitories at boarding schools…How is this a cross-section of the general population? Sadly, men get ED, too. I have spoken to men with ED and they tell me it is very hard to come out of the closet.

    With men it can happen just like it happened with me. Many men even seek “treatment” such as therapy and pills and end up “treated” for mental disorders but the ED never gets addressed…and this can go on and on for decades. I know several men and women both in such a situation. With men, it is harder since they are less likely to be believed nor taken seriously.

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  • Nowadays, mental illness is taken seriously and the ED community is fighting to be included into the MI category and I do not support that. The ED community, including NEDA/BEDA and other ED organizations have made a point of not including me (BEDA/NEDA kicked me out of their conference last year!). They do not like human rights activists apparently.

    I don’t know how Pat defines disease. I personally see ED’s as something very real that people suffer from. Just because people suffer does not mean it has to be a “disease.” One does not mean the other (although we, as a society, are conditioned to believe this). I have been accused by the ED community of denying the severity of ED’s because I have stated that ED is not a mental disorder.

    I am waiting for the ED community to respond to this article. I tried Tweeting but I am not adept at Twitter. My tweets seem to disappear.

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  • Tireless, I agree, I do not use the word “recovery” either, mainly because it has been co-opted by other groups. I don’t use the word “recovering.” To me, what I am currently recovering from, in all seriousness, is the abuse I endured during my last few years in the MH System when I was in my 50’s. Much of it consisted of their attempts to silence me as I was emerging from decades of fraudulent psych diagnosis claim. This is an ongoing process for me, and a very difficult one.

    I agree, too, that the objectification of women is somehow linked to capitalism. We must realize, however, that ED is not exclusively a women’s or girls’ problem. When a man has ED the issue is compounded since if he tries to get “help” he is not likely to be believed nor taken seriously since it’s seen as a teenage girls’ problem.

    To call it a disorder or not? Yes, I do. I do not call it a psych disorder, though. I consider it outside of the psych realm. We have seen ED portrayed in the media for so long as psych, and we’ve seen it linked to psych, and patients are told over and over that “it’s all in your head.”

    Is high blood pressure psych? What if psych decided it was? They’ve put smoking addiction under their umbrella, why not high blood pressure? Why not heart attack, since they can get far-fetched and claim “stress” causes it? I actually saw that happen to a person! Why not claim kidney disease is psych since kidney disease makes you tired (from anemia). How about those dubious ones like Irritable Bowel and Fibro? Haven’t we seen that, too? When I was in the nuthouse (McLean) they told me my cracked tooth was not cracked, but it hurt me because I was grinding my teeth at night without my knowledge, due to “anxiety.” They tried to give me Haldol for that (this effectively delayed my getting the tooth pulled until it was badly infected).

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  • And something I want to say to people with ED who may be reading this. You DO have choices. I know you didn’t choose to have an ED. I did not. You do choose to go back to those so-called “professionals” again and again when you know “treatment” fails you over and over. Why keep going back? Why not take a different path or try something new? Why not trust yourself? Why keep believing these doctors?

    Believing them, and continuing to go back, that you do have control over. It is your choice when you go back and go back. You are not a failure. They have failed you. It isn’t even treatment. It is imprisonment and taking away of your rights, and you do not have to choose to return to that. You can choose to live your life. You can choose instead to find something to be passionate about instead of going back. That, exactly, is how to get over ED.

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  • And another thing….Many people have been shocked that if I say it’s not a mental health issue I am ALSO saying it’s not serious. NO WAY! These are not the same statement. It doesn’t have to be a mental health issue to be “serious.” Having come very close to dying of this thing, I am well aware of the seriousness of ED’s. You do not die of depression or schiz. Your brain won’t implode from thinking or having a feeling. You die of ED’s because you die from starving or electrolyte imbalance or dehydration, and many people are dying at a seriously alarming rate. Or you die in treatment because they refeed too fast. I recall a while back three people I knew died in the same week. It is very very scary.

    Still, I wish it wasn’t at all in the DSM. I wish it wasn’t treated by MH professionals. I wish they would butt out of the ED field altogether and leave it to nutritionists and other types of specialists, especially peers, folks like us. Peers are the real experts, people who have been through ED. This IS about the food, it’s about that first diet you ever went on. It’s about the reasons, if you can ever dig them up. It’s about acknowledging it, and moving on.

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  • Frank if you had been through an ED I am sure you would say differently. If you had been through psychiatry’s total inept “treatments” and therapy’s irrelevant solutions year after year, and been through their scare tactics and ineffective imprisonments over and over, only to find yourself starving again and again, I think you would have an entirely different opinion.

    Psychiatry and therapy have no relevance to ED, and have no answers. This IS about the food, which is a substance. ED is about starvation and its consequences. I wish I had known, and bypassed the MH System altogether.

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  • Hi Sam, From what I know and have observed, after anorexia many people experience either lack of hunger signals or an abundance of hunger. For those who do not yet experience any hunger there are various strategies that I have heard might work. One is simple discipline, which will work for those who thrive on discipline and orderliness. You might tell yourself you will eat at noon and then, eat at noon. Or, you might say, “I will eat after I finish this assignment.” And you might “reward” yourself after eating with something else, something pleasurable. Pick anything

    For many, though, discipline can backfire, especially when too much rigidity has been a problem.

    You just have to ask yourself where you are on the “organized” spectrum. Some folks find beat themselves up so much, while others do not know where to begin to discipline themselves in terms of managing their eating.

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  • Oooohhh. Bradford, thanks so much for explaining why for 30 years I kept saying to those fools, “I have ED,” and they stared back at me and said, “That’s impossible!”

    I hope someone’s laughing as hard as I am right now. That, in a nutshell, explains it all.

    I have always known that the real cause of people being called “mentally ill” is due to being misunderstood.

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  • I see these as physical addictions. Can people stop psych drugs? They are physically addicting. right? Booze is, too. Binge eating, as I have explained, is physically addicting, as is anorexia, and these things are not so easy to stop, especially when you have some “therapist” harping on you or threatening.

    Have you noticed that if a smoker is nagged, that smoker will cling to his/her habit even more stubbornly? However, if the smoker is left alone and he/she is allowed to see that not smoking is truly appealing, the smoker is likely to actively take the leap.

    We have a problem of the System acting as naggers, which is effectively keeping people sick. It works awfully well to keep folks out of commission.

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  • Tireless I don’t have any statistics on this, but many people have told me that support groups helped them. They stated that being among others who experienced the same thing in itself was a relief. People told me OA and AA helped them, or an ED support group. I think there should be more of this. There should be more peer support, that is, people who actually went through the struggle.

    I have heard them say in facilities that it wouldn’t be a good idea. They keep saying we would “trigger” each other. Yes, it is BS. They’re just protecting their money I think. If we actually got better they’d lose their customers.

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  • I don’t understand why Islamophobia is included here in MIA. It is a social issue, an extremely serious one. I never knew anyone locked up in a nuthouse for it. I never knew anyone labeled by a psychiatrist as a racist or antisemite, or homophobic, either.

    Of course I knew many bigoted shrinks, especially women-haters. And I must say, psychiatry and the Mental Health System itself is one of the most serious social threats we have in the Western world.

    People act collectively in ways that they would not act as individuals. I know this to be called either GroupThink or gang mentality. When it is directed by a group at an individual, it can become bullying. When police engage in GroupThink it can turn to police violence, which is amplified due to the group effect. I have seen “staff” act in GroupThink fashion, acting violently or verbally abusive against individual patients.

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  • Hi Carol, I could certainly relate as I am Jewish, grew up in MA, and found my introduction to Christianity (at age 21) extremely traumatizing. This was both in the form of exposure to a religious cult, and afterward, born-again type Christianity. I developed an eating disorder the following summer, when I was 22, and a big part was spiritual dissatisfaction. I felt that I couldn’t connect with God anymore, that my fat was getting in the way. Really what was happening was that leaving a cult, you tend to go through grieving, and you do feel disconnected, and disillusioned with society as a whole. Like society is only dull black and white, and the cult was in full living color. You can’t get over the disappointment, like everyone is shallow and trite. I wanted the cult back, but I couldn’t have it back. I wanted God back too. That warm chummy feeling, even though the cult was deceptive, I still wanted it.

    None of this was ever addressed in 34 years in the System for me. Not once. Well? They never asked. Fools.

    I think your point about spiritual crisis is a good one. And I cried when you said you tossed out the bipolar book. YAY!!!! If anyone reads this and tosses out theirs, too, it’s a victory.

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  • I couldn’t agree with this article more. I have known certain religious people, well-meaning, I must say, to make claim that anger is bad, that’s right, MORALLY bad. And then there are others that take “Turn the other cheek” to mean you are never to express nor even feel anger.

    I agree that anger is amazingly useful. My anger at the MH profession saved my life. My anger got me away from them. My anger helped me realize just how wrong they all were. My anger showed me the diagnoses were fraudulent. My anger fuels my writing and fuels these words I am writing now.

    Just as Sarah says here, I, too, was called paranoid just for expressing anger. That’s so insane, insanity on the part of people who have the audacity to call themselves “professional.” I was called violent, too. I have some choice words for that I cannot even say here.

    Julie

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  • I believe there were cases of anorexia in the 1800’s. And there was a guy in France would was known to not be able to stop eating. I literally cried when I read the Wikipedia article about him. It was heartbreaking. They ended up imprisoning him in a prison where (they say) he ate live rats. But this was not verified, so it may have been a rumor.

    There is a disorder that basically comes from your appetite center not working right, and that is called Praeder-Willi. It can usually be found alongside learning disorders and sometimes, but not always, mental retardation. It is detectable, something missing basically. You do not get a satiety signal, so you just keep going. I saw a YouTube on this and bawled my eyes out thinking of how these folks suffer. No it is not gluttony, it is a horror story.

    You bet I thought for a while I had PW. However, the main difference is that binge eating turns on and off. PW never turns off. I hope this speaks to the seriousness of BED, for anyone who doesn’t “get it.”

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  • I should add the following. I don’t know where this statistic comes from. Seventy-five percent of binge eaters are specifically addicted to sugar. I have heard that sugar addiction is so powerful it is more addictive than booze.

    I have known people to realize that their problem was sugar. Then, they realized all they had to do was to stay away from sweets. This really did solve it. However, if the sugar abstinence is then turned into another strict, rigid diet, the diet mentality then takes over and the purpose is totally defeated.

    This is likely why sometimes, meal plans fail, because a meal plan can be done so zealously that of course it’s the next diet. You then are set up to fail. I have known therapists to reinforce the setup!

    I am not addicted to sugar. I knew this early on. I do know (through experimentation) that I was likely addicted to some types of dairy food, and possibly my mother (who had ED many years before I was born) was also addicted to some dairy foods. For a while I started noticing that when I went grocery shopping, I was fine until I walked past the dairy aisle, then, all hell broke loose (and that was usually toward the end of my aisle-wandering).

    For some time, I was afraid to keep any food at all in the house. It was a matter of buying one meal at a time, just tiny quantities. I was so scared. Now I am proud to say those days are over. I can even purchase dairy food and leave it in the fridge and not worry.

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  • To be honest after a while I began to realize “they” do not have the answers. I kept looking to them and asking, begging really. “If you have all the answers, why can’t you make me better?” I just got a shrug, or a pat answer like, “Follow your treatment plan.” I knew they just didn’t know.

    Incarceration can’t really solve it since you’re locked up and don’t have the opportunity to binge. For many, this actually is so darned ironic. You’re free while you’re locked up. You’re free from bingeing. I really thought this. For those two weeks I was free of that hell. Then, they’d let me out and it would start again. That was my life. My secret life because I couldn’t get anyone to understand. Even during the years they had no clue I had ED, I lied sometimes and made up some stuff about being suicidal even though I wasn’t, so that I wouldn’t have to go out again.

    When I finally got free of psych I was also free to experiment. Wildly. Many failed. Many had mixed results. I loved that I could do anything, mix up my food, try eating different ways, try different eating patterns, try out different mindsets, and even try out fad diet pills you could get over the counter (only the cheap ones).

    Just being free of it all helped so much. You would think that I would have gone wild with the bingeing, but that’s not at all what happened. I’d say I was free to find what worked with common sense and logic. I was free to figure out what I actually liked and didn’t like.

    I was free also to figure out that I actually like myself. I always did, but psychiatry wrecked it for me all those years. I liked myself before, but now, I like myself a whole lot better without the diagnoses to cloud up stuff. Being away from them I find I know myself a lot better. That is so important!

    There are things I can’t do, or don’t like doing, or just am not very good at. I have to face that. I am not superwoman, just me. Some things are too hard for me, and probably someone better skilled than I am should be doing those things. (Like reaching up to high places, since I’m so short.)

    And also, therapists used to tout “mindfulness” and “living in the present” which is a culturally-egocentric value in my opinion, and not for everyone, especially us older folk who thrive on our hindsight. We are good at storytelling. Let us tell our stories! Therapists should stop demeaning us for it, and stop complaining that we’re dwelling on the past. This is what us older, (wiser), folk do.

    Why pathologize it? My therapists pathologized what I got my degree in, writing memoir.

    My mom used to say we had to be good because she “had eyes in the back of her head.” Did she? I used to look, try to see in her hair. Really?

    She did. She had wisdom and hindsight. And we foolish kids couldn’t even see it. But that is okay, because now I do.

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  • Exactly. I know that many times while I was normal weight I had a harder time being taken seriously. “You look okay, what’s the problem?”

    You make a valid point about making that number on the scale so important, and equating it with self-worth. It is so hard to detach these two things. I do own a scale but I could take it or leave it. I think the word is desensitization, or something similar. I don’t see it as the Judge. I used to. I remember the number made it or broke it for me. Now, other things are more crucial. When we find things that are crucial that we care about more than that number, we’re on our way.

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  • Lawrence, Do parents really know what their kids are up to? If I had been 10, yeah they would have noticed. At 16 I could have hidden it. At 22 when I started I was living far away and there was no reason for them to be worried. I called now and then and updated them on how college was going.

    As for “education,” no one dieted back then. What education was there to be had? No one had heard of ED. Know what we talked about in my house? Politics, going skiing, and Nixon’s resignation.

    You have to realize many people develop ED when they are older. Maybe even after their parents are no longer living. We aren’t all kids. You cannot blame parents.

    I think people need to know that extreme dieting CAN be very dangerous. It can be like doing a very addictive drug. You think you can stop. But suddenly you’re sucked into it.

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  • As for coping, from what I recall of my later years in the System I was “coping” with abusive treatment by starving myself. It was about the only thing left I could do. They cornered me into it with their power plays. They kept telling me what a bad patient I was, too.

    I got rid of the ones I had, then, tried to get new ones. I remember going from one office to another, asking them to help me. I didn’t know there was no help there.

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  • Psychiatry is very quick to call us rigid perfectionists. I have issue with this. I’ve even had therapists demand that I stop working hard at college! I can’t help it if I like the subject matter of the class!

    Another thing I had issue with was the fact that I like to run. They automatically assumed any exercise at all was OVERexercise. But for many, exercise is extremely helpful. It helped me to like my body more and to see food as fuel, not as the enemy.

    I’m happy to say that after I got those fools out of my life I have been free to run as much or as little as I want. I’m 60 years old and running a 5k in about a month. I look back on how they demanded that I stop running and I realize THEY had the control problems and foisted them on me.

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  • Yes and no. People with ED vary. Many are men, too. And also, many are older people, even folks in their 60’s and 70’s who are suffering. You can even start ED late in life.

    Another new thing is these weight-loss surgeries. Actually I have known a few people who got the surgery, and then, developed ED! Also, new are the drugs, which can cause all sorts of ED’s. I have heard of purging disorder caused by drugs, anorexia, and many developing bulimia, all from psych drugs and other pharmaceuticals.

    Another thing I’ve been trying to work on is that the weight-gaining drugs like Zyprexa should never be given to anyone with a history of anorexia. I think there should be a black box warning. The reason is that unwanted weight gain from the drugs will later cause a rebound effect and the anorexia will return with a vengeance. This happened to me post-Seroquel, and studies show that these drugs can often do this.

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  • Exactly, Richard. I had no clue what I was getting myself into when I started the diet. I sure didn’t want to lose more than a few pounds. I had no plans beyond that. My first binge absolutely shocked me. I had no word for it, didn’t have the word “binge” in my vocabulary. And I didn’t know “eating disorder,” either, nor “anorexia” nor “bulimia.” This was not due to naivete, but because such things weren’t known back then. In 1980, remember, this was the year Ronald Reagan was elected, and the Vietnam War was fresh in our memories. Life was very different back then.

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  • Steve many therapists who have control issues themselves get into the ED business. The ED “protocol” according to many therapists means forced weigh-in, reporting your food to a therapist or nutritionist, threatening the patient if she doesn’t gain, twice a week therapy, once a week weigh-in (see my article on this, it’s very very scary for kids), and a psychiatrist. This is the “team” (slavery) approach.

    The claim that ED is all about control…if it ever was…it now becomes control by the treatment team! So the control shifts. The team actually tells the parents to lay off, in effect they’re saying the parents did a bad job or caused the ED, that is, if the patient is young….the State is the Better Parent. “We do a better job so let us take over.”

    Now, the patient of course assumes these folks are actually working in her best interest and know better. Is ED about control? Yes. Yes. Yes.

    When that happened to me, THAT, is exactly what almost killed me. I was so trapped in it. When I look back I know I was responding to what they did. I know I starved myself voluntarily, but this was almost a defense against them, against the System that had harmed me.

    And in saying this, I am alive and fighting back. It needs to stop.

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  • Oh by the way, Frank, there are people who literally eat themselves to death. If you sit in on an Overeaters Anonymous meeting you might meet folks who seriously struggle with overeating. I have met people whose lives were very much taken over by overeating. I can say that overeating is not the same thing as bingeing. Some people suffer from both and some one or the other.

    I recall trying to explain this to people, even doctors, and since they never experienced it themselves it was futile and pointless.

    That I know of, in some regions overeating and bingeing are not even seen as distinct from each other.

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  • The part that was a choice, that I wish I had not chosen, was to believe the lies of my doctors and therapists all those years. First of all, they ignored my ED and assigned me other diagnoses. It was my mistake to believe them. That was a very bad choice.

    It was also my mistake, over the years, to believe they had any answers at all. It was my mistake to believe the lie that “doctor knows best.” It was a lie that we patients should “go to staff” or to a “professional” every time we had a problem.

    It was my choice to fall for all of that. It was my mistake. It was a mistake that cost me over three decades of my life.

    It was my choice to turn my back on psychiatry and the entire mental health system. In doing so, I am doubly blessed to see the end of my ED. I realized then that the System didn’t have any answers. The answers were within myself, and are within each and every one of us. I can only hope that others see this, so that the 30+ years I spent are not a waste, but can be made into a story that helps others beat this cycle.

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  • Lawrence I think most of the reason they almost always diagnose patients with concurrent psych disorders is because they want to drug us. They don’t have drugs for anorexia, so they tell us we’re depressed so they can give a cocktail of drugs. They even make excuses for giving Zyprexa. I’ve heard them telling kids that Zyprexa was “to calm you down” but really of course it was to induce weight gain in patients who weren’t gaining as fast as the insurance companies were demanding.

    They never acknowledged binge eating disorder until they had the designer drug. Back in 2013 I honestly didn’t realize this. Back then, I thought, “Oh, after all these years, they’ve finally listened.” Wow what a sucker I was. No, after all those years, they finally figured out how to make bucks off of us. And that’s the very sad bottom line.

    While statistically, more and more are getting ED, it’s also true that there’s financial interest in widening the ED umbrella. ED “treatment” is lucrative now. “Early detection” means more money for the ED prisons. We should be concerned because this is a human rights tragedy.

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  • Yes, this is true. Data supports that usually religious fasts don’t cause eating disorders. I am sorry for the misunderstanding here. I didn’t go on a fast. I went on a restrictive diet that I found in a diet book. The difference is that mine was prolonged. Not that I planned this.

    My guess here is that the writer was figuring most would break the diet and not stick to it for very long, or at all. He claimed you’d lose weight rapidly. What I did was stick to it. I was really starving. I started in the beginning of July and stuck to it through the summer and into the fall. I was not actually overweight to start with.

    The religious part was the reason behind the diet, that is, it wasn’t to “get boys,” nor to look a certain way. I don’t think I owned a mirror even. I was in college, a music composition student. I think part of the reason no one believed me for so long is because I didn’t fit the stereotype.

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  • I notice you edited your comment, Lawrence, to include seizures as exception. For a while during my long stint with psych I was wondering if my binge eating episodes were caused by seizure activity. I really didn’t know for many years.

    In the late 1980’s a doc said I might have TLE. Then, in 2011, another neuro said the TLE was a false dx and any irregularities were drug-induced. I believe this was correct. I never had those symptoms and anything similar I now realize was the effect of ECT back in the 1990’s. Hindsight….

    As I state in the article I solved the entire eating disorder problem by getting myself as far away from psych and therapy as I possibly could.

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  • Lawrence as I said in the article, therapy and psychiatry perpetuated my ED, first by ignoring it and assigning me psych disorders I never had. Then after 30 years had passed they finally decided I had ED.

    I was now in my 50’s! So now, they did ED “treatment” on me in the form of force-feeding and using scare tactics. They threatened me over and over. It was a power play and it just about killed me.

    This is how it was. The therapist would demand over and over what I had eaten, would accuse me of vomiting, would tell me she had ways to get me into the state hospital, and if I was as little as ten minutes late for our twice-a-week appointments she’d be on the phone with the cops…sectioning. Once I was studying in the library and my phone rang. It was her. She said, “Where are you? I’ve called the cops on you.” I have to laugh at that one. This is the kind of stuff I had to live with, living in constant fear. I was told if I didn’t gain a half pound I’d be incarcerated. I was told I had to take a cab and couldn’t burn any calories doing anything at all. These therapists should go out of business.

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  • ED is usually caused by a restrictive diet, that is, CAUSED by controlling your eating habits. Does that answer your question?

    From what I recall, this being decades ago, you have to realize that in 1980 hardly anyone went on a diet. I didn’t grow up in a chronic dieting family either, nor did I grow up giving a hoot about weight nor about fashion. I never looked in the mirror nor cared about my appearance.

    I went on a diet for religious reasons. I don’t consider myself a perfectionist. I didn’t have low self-esteem and I wasn’t depressed either. Come to think of it I wasn’t “anxious.”

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  • Obesity does kill. When a person suffers from binge eating, that person may become overweight or maybe not. During my decades of ED, I was various weights, and even when I was rail thin I suffered horribly from bingeing. I begged for help and what happened was I was not taken seriously. OR…get this:

    I was told it was “good” to binge. The truth is that an extremely large binge can cause stomach rupture and that is almost always instantly fatal.
    …Or I was told it was no big deal…..
    Or I was accused of vomiting. This repeated accusation was traumatizing for me.

    If you really do binge it horribly disabling. You can’t work like that and you can’t function at all. You are sick all the time, and you go broke, too. It’s no way to live.

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  • Well, again, you are relying on stereotyping. The stereotyping even seeps into “treatment.” So what happens is that young and vulnerable people are told “You are a rigid perfectionist” and of course that acts like a diagnosis. Most patients will rise to the occasion and act the part.

    Trauma may drive a person to go on a diet, but it is the extreme diet itself that triggers the cycle. Dieting causes a vicious cycle and it is so hard to get out of it that many tell me their lives are ruined by it. Therapy actually can reinforce the cycle by heightening the power play.

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  • I wish it were as easy as having been a choice. While back in 1980 I made the conscious choice to go on a diet (which had nothing to do with fashion mags as I had never seen one), which was only going to last a few months, and only a few pounds, I did not expect to be caught up in a deadly cycle that I couldn’t stop once I had started it. I didn’t know what I was getting into.

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  • I have a lot of faith in orthomolecular nutrition. I actually saw Dr Pfeiffer himself. My parents took me to him hoping that doing so would convince me to get off the “medications.” This was way back in the 1980’s. We drove to NJ to see him. Sadly, at the time, I decided he was a quack and dismissed everything he said. I think this was because I saw my psychiatrist as a god who could do no wrong. I wish I could take all that back.

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  • The comments here are really great. Steve McC I saw your comment in my email but I can’t find it now.

    Yes people do feel terrible sometimes, to the point of considering suicide. If you feel that conflicted, is that a “need”? Well it’s a need for something but not for psychiatry, lockup, and labeling.

    Yes, people suffer and yes they need something. They need to be heard, first and foremost. Most mental health modalities focus on symptoms and bullshit illnesses, not on real life problem-solving and issues such as poverty. Therapy doesn’t address it because therapy milks the poorest of the population (now, as this wasn’t always the case), so it’s an embarrassment.

    I have personally known people and read many stories about people who were in some kind of “treatment” for ages with therapists and during all those years the real thing bugging them was never spoken about.

    Then, something happens or some new person nudges their consciousness a bit. Then it all spills out. A sexual assault, abuse, bullying, these kinds of things that don’t get discussed in therapy if they don’t fit the therapist’s idea of what might bring patients to their offices. And some therapy patients never ever talk about what is really on their minds.

    Here is an example and this is public knowledge, a story I found online. A young person was suffering for a long time, and her therapists kept trying to hound her about her “abusive parents.” She knew her parents hadn’t been abusive and staunchly defended her upbringing.

    Finally, she was able to unearth it and tell someone. No it wasn’t her parents, but she had indeed been abused. By her grandmother.

    Yet this story doesn’t fit the stereotype. Nor does my own. I was abused while in high school but not by a family member nor relative. I was abused by my “best friend.” Trust me no therapist wanted to touch this one. They mostly insisted on defaulting to “abusive parents.” It was so harmful to me and harmful to my siblings (ripple effect).

    I did need to talk to someone. I found people sometimes, not therapists, usually some person older than myself I could look up to as role model, or mentor. Back then folks didn’t go to therapists very much.

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  • yes, either way you are right.

    I think we need to go back to basic principles. I can think of things people here probably agree on, such as forced drugging and ECT. However we are divided on “therapy” and even divided on what parts of the System should be abolished. All, or some?

    I know many therapists try to silence me about therapy abuse and claim that my telling my story is counterproductive. I have had to drop my membership in groups where there were too many self-righteous therapists claiming their practice was practically flawless and only an “exception” would be abusive. Not true.

    I refuse to take on the mentality that all non-drug approaches are humane. In therapy, all you have to do is to tell a patient she is psychotic or delusional when she’s telling the truth, and you have the recipe for very bad abuse.

    Many therapists do rely on the DSM and many believe in their diagnoses, too. Ever try seeing a therapist who saw you as schizophrenic or other psychotic diagnosis? You are never ever believed. You can try all you want but they won’t believe a word you say. Everything you say is denied.

    You can tell them anything. Like that you were sexually assaulted. They ignore you. I told my psychiatrist that a therapist asked me out on a date so I fired him. She claimed I was delusional.

    I have had nurses roll their eyes at me when I was in kidney failure, and discuss me like I’m a thing. I hope they are reading this right now. #mountauburnhospital

    This can happen with, or without the use of drugs. I believe the term is gaslighting.

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  • We live in a society where force is a way to wield power. Children are forced to go to school and if parents keep them home, it is considered truancy. In some societies woman are forced to obey their husbands, I daresay right here in the USA. Workplaces can be forceful. A boss or manager may threaten employees with “dismissal” should they act out of line. Employees are threatened with background checks and drug screenings. The atmosphere is oppressive in some of these workplaces, with much division between workers and those up top.

    We have normalized force, we shrug off the use of it, and that is not right.

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  • Fiashra after all those years looking to doctors for the answers, I more quickly found those answers within myself. And they were there all along, all those years but I stubbornly turned outside of myself because they insisted on their expertise. I believed them. I no longer do.

    I find the idea of seeing to it that psychiatry and the entire MH System loses its customer base is a great idea. Many of my neighbors refuse to see Western Med doctors and are extremely skeptical.

    There are two things. 1. Share our own experiences, and 2. offer compassion to those leaving or contemplating leaving the clutches of the System. And to me, the System means dependency on a therapist, too. I don’t see a person as free of psychiatry unless they can break the therapy addiction.

    I also think we need more venues (media) for story-sharing, getting these stories to the public.

    I personally joined Toastmasters and nearly every speech I give (about once a month at least) is anti-psych, or has antipsych overtones. I am competing in the International Speech Contest this year, and also trying out for TED Talks, likely 2019. If I get anywhere with this it’ll all be widely broadcast on YouTube etc. I’ve been working hard at public speaking and I find it comes naturally to me.

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  • There is no venue for therapy abuse. You can’t even go to another therapist for help with resulting trauma. That would defeat the purpose, no? And all that affects me to this day, affects my relationships and my ability to get along with others.

    I have even tried talking to my friends about it but they do not want to hear. Very few anyway. This subject needs to be brought out into the public and we need to be able to speak about it without being called paranoid.

    Look at what bringing sexual harassment did, people spoke up after many years. This is what I am hoping for.

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  • Well for that I apologize. My own organ damage IS permanent, permanent and life-shortening. Truth is I cannot get medical care for it because to seek medical care means down the line revealing how I got kidney damage (lithium). I have to live with the damage from lithium on a daily basis, my sleep is affected, I have permanent anemia, sometimes my red blood cells are deformed or swelled up, I drink six liters of fluids a day to compensate and take electrolyte supplementation. I also almost died a few years ago. I was lied to and told I caused it. Then I found out my kidneys had been failing for years, maybe a full decade, due to past lithium use (12 years). I was also lied to about my own medical condition.

    However, abuse trauma, from psychiatric abuse, caused me to fear and distrust doctors so much I am having trouble submitting to a cataract operation. I am blind in one eye and the other barely sees.

    I am not trying to minimize drug damage because to do so would be hypocritical. I AM trying to emphasize therapy abuse since it’s fucking taboo around here and therapists’ feelings get hurt so such stories are suppressed. Some people have no clue how abusive some therapists can be and just how hard it is on a person. Never mind what that woman did to me. Most do not even want to hear about it.

    Adam Lanza was a victim of therapy abuse, too. That is how badly it damages a person.

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  • Stumble into a great relationship or maybe have a pet stumble into your life. Stumble into church or a really cool meetup group, or, a gym. Friends of mine have found a lot of solace in the older self-help books such as How to Win Friends and Influence People. I personally liked When Bad Things Happen to Good People.

    I really have to give my dog Puzzle a lot of credit for being the awesome doggie she is.

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  • I think the work rules and “time off” rules need to allow for time off and no incentive should be there to move people from the welfare system (state, temporary) to the permanent SSDI system (or SSI). Once moved to this federal aid, fewer than 0.5% make it off disability.

    I call for more allowances for time off and fewer incentives to put people on permanent disability. I don’t think any psych condition is grounds for putting a person permanently out of the workforce. I do see conditions created by psych such as TD, brain damage, some organ damage as grounds for a disability claim.

    As substitute for psychiatry, which is practiced in a secluded office, I suggest more compassionate and caring communities.

    I notice slight differences between locales in terms of community caring. Watertown MA was cold and hostile, cars beeping at pedestrians just for being slow, a lot of road rage, and hostile and unfriendly neighbors.

    I found South America friendlier, but you did run into a lot of inappropriate behavior due to too much alcohol use.

    Where I live now, in one of the communities, within one month I was offered a ride by a passing motorist (just uphill a block or two) when they saw me struggling with my bags. Not only once, but four times in one month! This is totally unheard of where I lived in MA. I was so touched when the drivers stopped and asked.

    Also, at my workplace, workers were noticing that New Yorkers were more hostile and, as the word goes, irate. I am wondering if it’s a matter of population density, that too many squished together is going to produce hostility anyway, because it’s unnatural to live like that. People need privacy and space.

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  • Eric I love this. I, too, collected stuff, my best being a pool ball from a pool table on Wheeler 3, Emerson Hospital, in Concord, MA. This is where I met my boyfriend in 1986 whom I dated many years. Wheeler 3 isn’t the psych unit anymore. They moved to North 5. I had that pool ball many years.

    When I was in McLean a gal and her boyfriend (he was not inpatient with us) stole SO MUCH I was in utter shock. He would leave with these huge suitcases claiming he was “bringing her stuff home.” They believed it. When she started boasting about how much she had stolen, and whom she had stolen from, I started hiding my valuables. This was getting extreme. One weekend all the food was gone from the pantry! Well she got her money’s worth or some of it.

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  • Absolutely not, this is a generalization about ED and totally untrue. Many older ED’s like myself were completely ignored by psych, that is, our ED’s went totally unnoticed, for decades, and meanwhile we collected other diagnoses (whether they had any grain of truth to them or not) like Eric collected blankets. Many ED’s of any age are missed totally, since ED doesn’t always look like a rail thin teenage girl.

    I have been helped by drugs but I could have picked them up on Amazon just as easily. I didn’t need a doc for that.

    Psychs are poorly trained in nutrition and many don’t know jack about ED, either. Yes you can usually tell.

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  • Frank I agree, a friend was helped by a psych who explained the aftereffects of seizures.

    Psychiatrists should do this more often instead of making up their own diseases. I think there’s a need for psychs to help elderly sort out the negative effects of the drugs they are given, such as blood pressure and heart drugs. Also many of these drugs interact and we need people to identify these bad reactions. God bless the psych who tests for physical problems before jumping to conclusions, but very few do. I wish psychs did more real medicine, since they are indeed trained in this, instead of doing hocus-pocus diagnosis.

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  • It’s not Tireless that rants about the supposedly abusive middle class family, it’s another person. Tireless talks about the “recovery” movement.

    I know people think that about me, too, that I “rant,” but honestly if the general public started listening there would be no need for it. Where are the journalists? Where are the attorneys to take up our cases (thank you JG and a few others)? Many of us have lost friends and family too.

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  • Walter I am not 100% sure, but remembering back over a decade ago, I was kept on Seroquel way too long, even when my weight had doubled (literally). I have no clue why my therapist was mum on this, but she continued to defer to the psychiatrist who was blind to my appearance even though I complained bitterly.

    It seemed like this psychiatrist pushed the Seroquel to the point of her being delusional or possibly pushing me to say certain things and then, writing these in her notes. She claimed, years later, that I said, “I feel good on Seroquel.” I may have said this but she quoted me out of context. She quoted me in similar manner multiple times and during those sessions wanted to know a number (1-10) for how “good” I felt.

    Years later when she read her notes to me (trying to prove something) I could see that she had pushed me to say how great that drug was. She only wrote down that stuff, and didn’t record my complaints about weight gain, nor the person she saw before her, or about writers block that also plagued me, and lack of motivation. So here was an example of biased recording of patient outcomes.

    When I questioned friends who knew me they said I was “out of it” on the stuff.

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  • Fiaschra, Maybe they don’t want certain populations to increase in life expectancy. Psychiatry is handy for keeping these inconvenient populations in check. Which I suspect is its ultimate purpose. To suppress our voices, keep us out of the workforce, and ensure we die young.

    If seen this way maybe the “resistance” is SPEAK LOUDLY, LIVE LONG, and contribute to society in some meaningful way. Yes I know the suppression is very fundamental…..

    Susan R I like your ideas. Although having seen an oppressive workplace first hand recently, I can see that any worker solidarity is going to be difficult. People fear retaliation. The scare tactics in the workplace ensured worker silence.

    As on the wards, when they discouraged friendships and alliances among us, even to the point of separating roommates who got “too close,” or breaking up hallway conversations.

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  • I’m certainly not shitting on anyone. I can share examples but of course cannot be very specific for the sake of those affected. I see these folks as doing a disservice to those who have a genuine terrible experience.

    For instance, we know that a back injury can put someone out of work, and if much pain is involved, certainly make life unbearable. We also know that people who exaggerate “back pain” as reason to get onto disability do a terrible disservice to those who really have debilitating back injuries. See what I am saying? And we see variants of this, too.

    It’s bad enough that withdrawal is mislabeled “symptoms of mental illness” by some MH professionals. I have seen examples of MH professionals who stupidly mislabeled to the point of total ignorance.

    The worst of these being when I witnessed a fellow patient who had a bad reaction to long-term use of what I think was Risperdal. He had clear signs of TD which were called a “nervous twitch” by the psych!!!!

    But still we have to be careful not to blame every little thing that goes wrong in life on withdrawal. There are always some jumping on the bandwagon, or, rather, sneaking onto it. This hurts those who are legitimately there. I suspect more are on that wagon than should be, that’s all. By all means I wasn’t directing my comment at you personally.

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  • Richard L I love what you wrote. I think when we are newbies to the Movement we may have very high ideals and lofty goals, even unrealistic ones. This is not a bad thing even if we are grossly overoptimistic. I, too, recall the idealism of the 1960’s, the ideas people had that we could all live in peace and harmony, the “hippie” communes and people working so hard to maintain alternatives. I recall the earlier feminist movement, which was highly idealistic also. I recall a whole bunch of feminist utopia novels also.

    What happened to the feminists? What happened to the hippies? Where is the idealism, the dreaming and reaching up to places higher than we can possibly go? I believe such dreams are a necessary part of social change.

    Do we hope for a day when no one is called by a diagnosis or pseudo-diagnosis, when human behavior is not explained as synapses, but viewed compassionately, with genuine unselfish concern? I hope so.

    Realistic or not, I see no harm in hoping for the best. A person living in poverty might dream of riches. Working with this idea, he/she may proceed to work logically, step-by-step, to eliminate debt, work with creditors, and increase income. He may not become wealthy but his credit score will go up some.

    Without hope, where are we? I hope someday doctors aren’t paid so much nor treated like gods, nor have any say in court without tangible, measurable evidence. i hope we, as a society, stop blaming our own boo-boos on mental disorders, and take responsibility for cleaning up this mess.

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  • If we abolish their Bible, the DSM, the entire System and its pros will shift to a more helpful and honest profession. The UN has asked also that no person be declared mentally incompetent, that each human is an authority on his/her experience. What determines incompetence? A diagnosis! Get rid of those harmful and hurtful diagnoses and any pseudo-diagnosis such as “Black and White Thinking” and we are looking at more compassion, less categorizing.

    I found out the name for what happens when a person fits him/herself into a diagnostic category post-diagnosis. This is known as the “looping effect.” I know it is very common. I have witnessed this multiple times on “units.” People receive their awaited dxes, handed to them like awards, then, these unfortunate patients rise to their “bipolar” (or whatever) role in life, often for decades. This is hugely harmful, never mind the dx-based claims of dangerousness, claims of lacking insight, and justification for incarceration and more forced tx.

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  • I guess what I object to most is the elitism within the Movement. This comes from all sides, not just from provider circles excluding survivors, but from survivors who refuse to speak with other survivors, noses in the air, overlooking those they feel aren’t as important as they are. There is rampant snobbery in the Movement.

    And there is also a social ranking in some circles as to “off drugs” and “still on.” Or even, (I gotta laugh over this one), which particular drugs you’re still on. It is a status symbol. That is SO INSANE. I don’t think anyone should have to publicly post their drugs, for godsakes, to be accepted in a community. And oh, the worse you suffer from withdrawal, or claims of such, another claim to fame, the more attention you draw.

    Aren’t these things just fallout from where we came?

    Why can’t we all just speak reasonably to each other? I object to the tiers among us which are often arbitrarily drawn. I do think we should have chosen leaders and spokespeople from among us, people who can approach the government and the media. I don’t think “professionals,” no matter how sympathetic, reflect the survivor voice nor should they represent it.

    And I resent the claims that so many providers are quietly survivors themselves. You are not doing us any favors by remaining silent. Even those that claim they do so to “keep their jobs.” You are selling out, dudes, and snubbing us.

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  • Frank I am also concerned about the medicalization of our anger. Anger isn’t a disease, and is useful to overturn oppression and can effect positive social changes.

    I grew up in the 1960s, boy were people pissed over the Viet Nam War. It was exactly this anger that I believe was the major reason the USA pulled out (for the most part).

    If there are enough of us, and we call out in unison, the walls will come down.

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  • Tina I would be very happy to contribute. Originally, it was the use of force that caused me to question mental health “care,” as I saw multiple assaults on human rights while I was an eating disorders patient. Then, my disbelief in the System widened to include diagnosis and drugs.

    My initial reaction was a traumatic reaction to the use of force (water restriction) and after I would not be silent about it, subsequent threats to silence me via drugs and incarceration. Regretfully I have yet to spark the interest of a mainstream journalist, nor has any attorney been willing to take up my case, though a parallel case occurred in the UK that resulted in patient death. Prior to these incidents I had been incarcerated many times (three decades of that) and didn’t have a traumatic reaction. I am thankful that this red herring showed up in my life.

    I would be very very happy to write for this initiative! Please contact me at [email protected]

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  • i want to know why the author didn’t quote Bonnie Burstow, who publicly calls herself an abolitionist. Mr. Nikkel did not call BB a nihilist nor an extremist nor an angry black-and-white thinker. Who would dare do so? No, it’s easier to call survivors “angry,” “extremist,” all those euphemisms for “personality disordered.”

    Here we see the class system at work. The socioeconomic tiers created by the “needy ill” and the unblemished wealthy who hold power over them. In my opinion, this class system is exactly what must be abolished.

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  • I would like to see an end to the DSM and any euphemisms for “Mental Illness” taken out of mainstream use. I don’t mean terms like wacko, which is sometimes a compliment (depending on context). I would like to see a reduction of negative commentary on a person’s character.

    I would like to stop calling abusive spouses and other abusive people by disease names such as narcissist, psychopath, bipolar, schiz, and other conditions psych sees as permanent. I know people are angry at abusers, but if we see abuse as a crime and not a character flaw or disease, we are putting full responsibility for the abuse on the abuser, legally. Abuse is cruel and illegal, why excuse them by crediting some disease? Many abusers “pass on” the abuse they received as children, taking it out on their own kids. That, too, doesn’t make it okay, nor make it a disease.

    Doctors and other medical professionals sometimes are treated badly by administration or managers. They, in turn, take it out on their patients. I don’t see that as EVER being okay, nor in any way justified, nor ethical nor legal.

    Disease? These aren’t diseases, they are crimes.

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  • Force-feeding via a tube, or even non-tubed force, IS rape in some locales, but if you look at the legal rape definition, it varies regionally, and even between states of the USA. So sometimes it falls under that category and sometimes the category specifies “penis” or “sexual intercourse.” Newer laws mention the use of drugs (date rape drugs, etc) as means to falsify consent.

    Look closely at the UK definition of rape. A person must not only obtain full consent, but INFORMED CONSENT. This means, for instance, if you are a married man and misrepresent yourself as unmarried, it’s rape. Or if you aren’t using birth control and misrepresent yourself as “don’t worry, I’m using a condom.” Apparently a handful of misrepresentation cases have been tried in the UK.

    Psychiatry always misrepresents itself. If it did not, we, as a society, wouldn’t buy into it. But legally, psych assault may, or may not fall under the rape category depending on the exact wording of the governing laws.

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  • Hmm…where are the comments? Am I really the first?

    I agree, on a practical level, I highly doubt it’ll happen as you have outlined.

    However, Bob, you seem to have missed something. The All-Holy Bible, the DSM! Diagnosis means some people are singled out as diseased and “requiring treatment.” This is what leads to drugging and marginalization. You also specified, in your outline of the abolition events, only one MH practice, psychiatry, leaving out the rest of the shebang. I suspect also you took the comments (all by survivors, notably) out of context. Do you know any of these folks personally? It was almost like you were saying “All survivors are extremist black and white thinkers” which is, sorry to say, another way to say just how diseased we are.

    Most of us who are angry are not permanently angry. Anger serves a useful purpose, to protect us against another psychiatric assault and to preserve our human rights. Anger also helps spread the word to others who may be in the “questioning” phase. Many find that the anger, which is really a necessary part of grieving, dissipates over time. Especially if we are heard.

    You didn’t mention psychotherapists going out of business. Maybe because some therapists might be reading here and (horrors!) be offended. I think in many ways, since some therapists are movement allies ($$$), MIA and other groups sell out and let the entire dubious practice of psychotherapy off the hook.

    As I see it, it is pointless to abolish psychiatry as if it were the Isolated Evil of the World, when there are so many abusive practitioners and institutions that are not psychiatrists.

    After all, many MIA readers are “therapists” who work outside the box, outside of diagnosing and “treating.” However, these are rare indeed, far more rare than many are willing to admit.

    I think very specific things need to happen. We need to disempower the practice of psychiatry and Western Med in general. Doctors are overpaid. The psychiatrist’s opinion should not be used as court evidence. Emotional and mental distress should not be viewed as a permanent condition, and should not turn into lifetime disability and marginalization. What is “normal” should not be determined by mental health professionals.

    The CRPD has wonderful guidelines and literature outlining how people should be treated and is demanding that all countries agree to be humane to its people.

    What would happen if we abolished psychiatric *diagnosis* as a mode of eugenics? I don’t personally care what happens to the drugs, they can go on the street or be sold in vending machines so they’ll harm people less.

    Abolishing the DSM would improve the practice of “therapy” also. Therapists wouldn’t be cornered into treating diseases, they’d consider the person and the circumstances. A person wouldn’t be incarcerated due to being seen as “ill.” Without the support of the DSM’s phony diagnoses, many of these drugs would disappear from the market or fall into disuse.

    If psych drugs were sold on the street (they likely are already) people would use them for what used to be thought of as the drug side effects. Helping them get to sleep, a few for weight loss (or the opposite), a few to enhance one’s sex life (likely, again, the opposite), and one or two as date rape drugs. I used to hear of people using a few of these to “come down” off of hallucinogens such as LSD.

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  • Thanks, Sera. I just saw this just now after my friend pointed it out to me. So I came to have a look. Some of what you describe I have experienced, such as the silencing incidents you describe, my own very much similar. It’s not nearly as bad as it used to be for me. I can recall being in rooms full of people and not being allowed to speak at all, and being cut off just as I began a sentence. I couldn’t help but feel like “If anyone else said that, they wouldn’t be cut off as I was” but…Then I get the feeling either I am not wanted around, or no one wants to hear whatever I have to say. It gets tiring and I end up feeling like I am constantly fighting to get a word in. This has extended to friendships also, wrecking a few of them, because even when it’s not really happening, as I have the deathly fear of not being heard.

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  • Okay, I will hurry and get a quick-fix doctor license and set up practice in Florida. That’s the safest state for me. I don’t have to worry about being sued if I kill a patient. Maybe, in fact, it’s safer to kill than to maim, so I might pull the plug on someone to avoid a lawsuit. Ah, the life…I’ll see you on the golf course.

    In all seriousness, best of luck with this! And…I found this post as “sponsored content” on Facebook. Wow, MIA getting up in the world.

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  • I hadn’t seen this before. I read the whole article and wasn’t surprised at the “treatment” you got, Laurie. What hit home was the bit about being a whistleblower. Then, suddenly, all came clear to me.

    I never knew why I had been abused myself, horrendously, called suicidal when I wasn’t, threatened, physically abused, sneered at, all sorts of emotional abuse including eye-rolling and claims that I was psychotic, theft, called a liar, given drugs that would have killed me, and had my apartment illegally searched (I found out upon my release!).

    I never knew why on earth this happened until I got my records. The suicidal claim was lame indeed. There was no evidence that I was suicidal and as I read my records, they’d already evaluated me and determined I wasn’t.

    What I learned was that at the administrative level, they didn’t truly believe I was suicidal nor did they believe I was psychotic. Their aim was to incarcerate me and drug me until I could no longer write.

    It was my whistleblowing activities that concerned them. This was the threat, not any danger to self. At the admin level they knew this, though they told their lower-paid workers I was very very dangerous indeed. They told the workers not to leave me, to remain within three feet of me at all times.

    The object was to have me moved from the medical ward to a psych ward where I would be kept a long time and further abused. Thankfully, they were too lazy to engineer the move themselves and had an outside agency from Boston do the evaluating. It was obvious to these young crisis workers that enough harm had been done and they petitioned for my release.

    This happened in Massachusetts and I have spoken to the legislators also. I also put in a complaint about my outside psychiatrist who was the one who saw to it that I was seen as a danger. There were other complaints I wrote up against her also. I have not gotten a response.

    I will check out your site and thank you for everything you do.

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  • So when the study compared to undiagnosed people, had these undiagnosed folks been locked up for long periods, secluded from society, deprived of intellectual stimulation, unable to pursue academic study, and regularly insulted by low intellectual expectations?

    I aced calculus when I was a kid. I can’t do math now beyond simple arithmetic simply because I haven’t used it in decades.

    Patients are not encouraged to use their intellectual abilities. Those deemed psychotic are taken out of intellectually-stimulating “groups” and put into Bingo instead. Computer use is limited on wards if allowed at all. Units ban books. (I am told my memoir is among the banned books!) Rehabs encourage low-level jobs and discourage advanced college study.

    Reading this makes me realize that taking up the intellectual exercise of writing, which I did simply to record events post-ECT, was likely the main factor that led me out of System.

    Ironically, years later I was threatened by authorities who demanded that I stop writing, the very same thing that not only liberated me, but exposed the harms that marginalized me to begin with.

    When I was midway through graduate school a doctor and social worker took me aside and said, “We know you better than you know yourself. If you go back to graduate school you will only end up back in the hospital. You must go to a day program.”

    I told them to go to hell. I went back to graduate school and did fine.

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  • Lawrence, you are writing about psychiatry from psychiatry’s point of view. If you focus on the patient’s experience, psychiatry and all of mental health isn’t just a religion, it’s a brainwashing religious CULT. I have been writing on this topic for years in my blog. I did a two-hour radio broadcast on the topic of brainwashing, cults, and the similarities between psych and cults. My station is at blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger and if you scroll down the list of shows you will find the one on brainwashing.

    My suggestion has been that psychiatry and often, psychotherapy as well, both brainwash its clientele as a way of keeping them from leaving the cult and continuing to adhere to its illogical practices.

    The essence of brainwashing is to strip a person of his/he current identity and ideology, and then, replace these with a brand new identity and way of thinking.

    Thus, wherever you were at when you came into psych (such as, “I’m a college student and I just want a little help) gets knocked down and replaced with, perhaps, “I am a mental patient, I have a permanent disorder, I’m disabled, I smoke Kools, and I go to a day program and live in a halfway house.”

    It is written that if the brainwashing is successful, the subject will fully embrace the new identity.

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  • Don,I would love to get involved with any of the projects you mentioned. I will contact you offline.

    I am amazed at how widespread this procedure is, and yet, most people assume it is no longer done. Also, most who are unfamiliar with how psychiatry works assume that shock is somehow “modernized” and therefore, couldn’t possibly be as bad as witnesses are saying. Survivor accounts are discredited or we’re told, “But you must have been an exception!” I’m never quite sure what the best response is when people say that.

    I think the year was 1995 or 1996 when I witnessed a 96-year-old man, fellow inmate, receive electroshock at Newton-Wellesley Hospital’s inpatient psych unit.

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  • Sam, I want to know, after all the effort you have made to understand your SO, is she “better”? That is,”better” according to how she, not you, might define it?

    When I got better, and this is just speaking for me, “better” meant I started making my own decisions and taking control of my life. It meant having confidence, plenty of energy, and ability to do things on my own without relying on the demeaning “services” of the Mental System. The only way I could get to this point was to leave the Mental System far behind. I am not married and very happy to be single.

    When I wasn’t “better,” I called the therapist every time things went wrong. I didn’t decide for myself. I blindly obeyed the the doctor and the therapist. The therapist blamed me every time things went wrong, or blamed some vague thing called my “symptoms.” I was frequently “sectioned.”

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  • This is in response to Sa’s comment, but again, I don’t have the ability to sort through the posts so I am sorry for misplacing this comment. SO’s and anyone interested might want to know about the Maudsley method of treating eating disorders. This is done at home. Hospitalization is discouraged or just not done. The family apparently helps the child eat again. I know a few who have been through this method. From what I know, the success rate is much, much higher than the usual force method. There are a few families that aren’t a good fit for this method. I have read about instances where it goes horribly wrong. But overall it sounds like when it works, it works extremely well. The force method turns kids into Revolving Door Syndromes and encourages bad habits. More people die from anorexia than from Depressoin or from Schizophrenia, according to statistics. it really can kill.

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  • This is about my seventh attempt to post a response. Forgve me for putting it on the bottom but after all those attempts I just can’t scroll around to try to find the “right” place to put this.

    Say there really are EVIL People in the world. Then, doesn’t that mean some are NOT EVIL. It does. Some, according to this assumption are surely EVIL, while others, maybe the rest of us, are OKAY.

    What do you propose we do, since “some are EVIL.”? Say, lock them up? How about a concentratioon camp for Evil People? If they really suck that badly, why even bother? Just kill these inferior sub-humans.

    See, by calling some people evil, that’s re-creating the split society, with some “okay,” and some deranged. This is what the System taught us.

    how about holding the fully human people , which I would like to suggest we all are, totally accountable? Some commit horrible crimes. Many psychiatrists are criminals. They’ve committed some of the worst crimes in history. The crimes they committed were, and continue to be, based on the principle that some folks just aren’t good enough.

    Let’s not duplicate what they are doing.

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  • Or, how about this? You ask for help with X but they help you with Y, which you may, or may not have. Example: You go to the college health center saying you were raped. You get pills for depression..You go to them with a career question, you get diagnosed with a phobia. And me…I went to them with an eating disorder, asked for rhelp with it, they declared me schizophrenic. looks like I MIGHT be able to get hold of the records precisely when this was done….

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  • no no no! Frances that is waaaaay too much. With the Orotate you take very little! Not the euivalent of the toxic Carbonate. I tried it myself I got the size of tablets that are the lowest dose, which will give you roughly 5 mgs Elemental Lithium. I started with 1/2 pill, gradually went up. No more than two, that is 10 mg of Elemental Lithium (the rest of the mg is the Orotate, a B Vitamin).If you have the 10 size, only one pill at most, or two 5 pills. No more! Less is better and you will still notice better sleep. I also take magnesium and potassium along with this. It is very helpful but must take a low dose or you get toxic, you don’t want that. Go read up on it.

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  • From what I have heard stress contributes to most diseases out there, certainly to one’s susceptibility to infection.

    Of course, how one reduces stress, or whether one does, is a choice. And for some of us, stopping psychiatric “care” has been a great way to reduce stress. Sadly, people with Alzheimer’s are often sent to psychiatrists, and even worse, locked units. Many of them spend their final days locked up.

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  • Thanks for clarifying, Joanna. So that three-hour test rules out the possibility of, say, stroke being the culprit. This DOES make sense.

    My friend’s mother was misdiagnosed and that killed her. She has Lewy Body and the great McLean Hospital said it was Alz. Sadly, they gave my friend’s mother Risperdal. That did her in. I believe my friend was able to hire an attorney, but that will not bring her mother back, sadly.

    The test that the wealthy writer had was $10,000 out of his own pocket, he said. It did not diagnose Alz. Rather, it told him he didn’t have it. He ended the article saying the test showed he actually had something else, something that was less of a death sentence as far as he was concerned. He said very few can afford the test and it’s brand new, but you’re right, it’s not a positive, but negative indicator.

    If I recall correctly this was in something like The Atlantic, not in a scientific journal. It was an interesting read.

    I could relate as a person coerced onto disability and unemployment for over three decades and then, slowly realizing it was fraud. I have to correct people. I didn’t recover from schizoaffective. I never had it, never had the signs nor symptoms. I have to say this over and over because very few believe me. It is hard looking back knowing that for three decades, you were duped.

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  • You guys missed the FOX news article on Kelley. He was drugged from sixth grade on. And this was apparently instigated by his parents. As a child, he spoke out against the drugging. FOX interviewed friends from junior high who described it as “he was heavily medicated.” This suggests a cocktail. As a child. It was psych drugs, the article said so. This information was suppressed and the nuthouse escape made central.

    By the end of high school he had already been mass unfriended by his peers. He had chosen atheism, but he lived in a community that frowned upon atheists. He was socially othered and even then, seen in a very bad way.

    Mass unfriending gives you a pessimistic view on the world. It makes you suspicious and for a while you truly hate your life. You feel like you can never, ever trust again.

    I am lucky that after I was also mass unfriended, some very kind people out there decided, even though it was the unpopular view, to give me a chance. So it turned around and I was never violent nor resorted to suicide.

    Yes he got the bad end of the stick. It didn’t get any better for him, and it looks like his capture in the nuthouse, escape of not, only furthered his feelings of distrust and fear, and other people;s distrust in him. I suspect that by the time he married he was way out of control, and something other than marriage was needed to help him trust others again.

    This happens to people and I feel for anyone in such a situation.

    And thanks for the humor on Murphy!!! Hypocrite!!

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  • Thanks for this article. I was following along and nodding my head in an emphatic YES until I got to the part about Alzheimers. I believe the Alzheimer’s Foundation (or whatever the major charity may be called) states that to properly diagnose Alz, the patient has to go to a NEURO, not to a psych. The Alz Foundation has articles on “Preparing for your neuro exam” and talks about how grueling this three-hour exam is. There are also instructions for caregivers of the elder, telling about the exam and how tiring it could be for the elder.

    A neuro exam tests reflexes, EEG, balance, tests for stroke, seizure disorder, head trauma, etc. These would reflect physical changes in the brain. Am I right?

    A recent article came out written by a man dxed with Alzheimer’s. What happened was that he was diagnosed and then, he prepared for gradual decline and death. This was life-changing for him. (Yes it does change your life!)

    Oddly, as time went on, he found he wasn’t deteriorating. Then, he spent a huge fortune, (as he was wealthy) on a complex test that proved he never had Alz at all. The dx confirmed his suspicions, but he expressed in the article that knowing he had lived with a false death-sentence type dx was certainly almost like years had been stolen from him. Does this sound familiar to us?

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  • Skylar that was so brilliant. I have witnessed similar things. I agree, in ANY situation, you simply cannot fully know what another person is experiencing. You don’t have their past behind you, you cannot live in their body, nor feel the same things they feel.

    Empathy can only go so far. Perhaps you have read Rilke’s beautiful discussion of “inseeing.” It is transformative, intuitive, and far too sacred to ever happen in a shrink’s office where one party pays another.

    I am thinking that in a really close relationship, such as marriage would be ideally, inseeing would be part of that relationship. I can’t see it projected elsewhere in the artificial sense, such as onto an online discussion, onto a “case study,” or newspaper article.

    Maybe such expressions of deep love should be encapsulated in creative arts, poetry, and music, where the sacred can be safely preserved.

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  • Uprising, this writing class would not have been a general writing class, but specifically a class in memoir so people such as survivors (if you call yourself that) or ex-inmates can effectively write their stories. Good writing sells, less effective writing won’t sell. Imagine if we could get more stories out there, well-written stories that illustrated our credibility. People need to cultivate ideas on where to start their story, how to frame it, issues regarding point of view (this can get VERY complex), and many many more difficult questions.

    This would have been a very relevant class to our mission. Sadly, the editors didn’t want it. Part of me says, “They didn’t want the class because I was the one proposing it.” I know I’m not a big name, and it wouldn’t turn into a CEU, it would be helpful to survivors. What if an MD proposed it (even though an MD has no creative writing training typically)? It won’t be because an MD isn’t qualified.

    We know that if more stories came out, in either traditional publication, or online, or even as book-turned-movie, more would join the fight and those fortresses will crumble.

    For years people have asked me writing questions and I try my best to answer. All kinds of questions, some related to writer’s block.

    The goal of the establishment is to silence us, ensure our stories are not heard. Many feel too exhausted or are discouraged from writing, or are told they are incapable.

    MIA still upholds the authority of so-called professionals. I can’t even stand calling them professionals after what I saw on the wards.

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  • Julia, yes, I, too, found that “professionals” that I myself consulted were not helpful. Some harmed me deeply.

    I have strongly disagreed with MIA’s favoritism of MH degreed bloggers. As I stated in my forum post, something like 61% of blog posts (not including comments, but the posts themselves) were written by MH degreed people. I tallied all these up, and somehow broke it down into categories. At the time, all MIA radio broadcasts were by MH degreed people with the exception of Eleanor Longdon. All classes were geared toward MH degreed people and taught by MH degreed people. I offered to teach a writing class (I have a masters) but that idea was killed by the editors.

    I concluded that by far, not enough articles were written from the legal perspective. I wish more law students, attorneys, and paralegals would submit, especially since these cases often come up in the courtroom. I very much appreciated Breggin’s recent reports on a particular court case that has been in the media spotlight.

    I think there are some who don’t believe much can be done to turn the tide. And yet others who feel we can. I see friction between these groups, the Yes We Cans and the Don’t Even Bothers. As I see it these squabbles play out on here.

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  • I have somehow lost track of the ordering of comments here. Julia, I can’t speak for others but I don’t personally encourage people to “stay that way forever” or stay any way forever simply because this doesn’t happen, time changes us. We get older, we change, we grow, we die, and people and things and even climate all change.

    We cannot even state nor promise “recovery forever” as some programs actually do (if you obey them and keep on paying them money). These programs and their sweeping promises ultimately fail.

    I don’t suggest a passive approach such as waiting for some authority (parent, doctor, spouse, clergy, God, Jesus, magic pill) to somehow come out of nowhere, sweep down and “fix” our lives. In literature this is actually considered a cop-out method of ending a story, a bad plot method. A classic example (if you recall) is the ending of The Poseidon Adventure. At the end, they couldn’t leave the capsized boat. Stuck. Lo and behold someone had found them and cut through the boat. This plot twist was heavily criticized because all the way through, the protagonists had done for themselves, had taken responsibility instead of passively hoping for divine intervention, which was the preacher’s original message, way back in his sermon in the beginning, right? Whether you are religious or not, responsibility is the key here.

    Taking responsibility might mean taking back your right to decide for yourself, instead of passively allowing parents or doctor or therapist to decide for you. This takes a lot of practice since what people do (and I’ve seen this…) is that even after getting rid of the shrink, they then grab the nearest substitute. This won’t work.

    The System lied to us, forced us into relinquishing our control over our lives. Take it back. Take back your body, your mind, your life.

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  • Samruck, if that is the case, I hate to disappoint you but I concur with the MIA editors. As you know I am a professional writer AND ex-patient who has also done editorial work and I know the field very well. I was published here at MIA many times but then was told that my limit had been reached by default.

    (I admit I recently blew my top at the editors over “the small stuff,” but I do hope they read this and forgive brief little acting out that was in fact a reflection of decades of silencing and unfounded discrediting. Yes I displaced my anger onto MIA editors, which was not cool. But this is not relevant to the issue of spouse writing about the person in question.)

    Now in your case, as I see it, from point of view of patient, IF a former doc, or former therapist submitted an article about me in a publication, without my consent and complete concurrence…YIKES! I would feel violated. Even when I was doped up I would have felt the same way.

    While I happen to be a total ham and love being in the limelight, love to perform for an audience (if I can find one) which is part of my nature (I was a trained musician), I would NOT want to be illustrated as a disease by a therapist. Especially if the therapist (and even supervisor) writes the whole thing.

    To throw off one’s patient identity and become the main subject in your life means you must stop acting as object, cast that role aside, and take on the role of protagonist.

    If I am the subject, then kindly pass me the pen. Or, perhaps, Nothing about us without us.

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  • I don’t see MIA as silencing specifically SO (which I assume is “spouse” or whatever. I do see MIA as publishing more degreed people (mental health degrees) that non-degreed people. You can see my comment of my own tally I did in the forum unless it was taken down. I see this trend as elitism.

    However, this is reflective of the elitist society we live in, where such degreed people have far too much power and authority over our lives. I would like to even argue that we are living in a tiered society, that divide ever-widening, made more divided by mental diagnoses, the tier between the “needy sick” and those that supposedly serve them as “treators” and hold financial, judicial, economic, and political power over them/us.

    The divide needs knocked down. We need to attack it at all fronts, in any way we can. One way is to discredit psych diagnosis, and not use diagnoses nor pseudo diagnoses ourselves.

    If a spouse or family member submits to MIA I imagine it would be treated about the same as any other submission. They do peek at who wrote it, and this means they do note the letters after your name.

    Many publications have a “blind submissions” policy, that is, all identifiers such as the cover letter that includes the author’s name are stripped off, and then, the submission is sent to another editor who makes the decision. They might also have a policy that you cannot put identifiers within the body of the submission.

    Let’s put it this way. If you write to your local paper and with or without “blind submission,” you write, “I have a mental illness and I was kept in restraints for five days….” This will be sent to the trash can as “just another psychotic….why do we get so many of these?” Sad but usually true.

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  • Hi Julia, That is a great question. I think dysfunction is perhaps in the eye of the beholder. So who am I to judge if another is “dysfunctional”? My goodness, how can I if I have never lived even one minute in that person’s shoes? I can, in my best judgment, state that the person is psychotic, occasionally, but dysfunctional, no. And when it comes to psychosis so often there’s a gray area.

    My boyfriend went through a period of bizarre beliefs and yes, that scared me. Twenty years have passed since that time. I can look back now and say that everything he said and did back then makes absolutely perfect sense to me now.

    These were the circumstances. First of all, loss. He was a witness to my ECT and as far as anyone was concerned my brain was fried and I’d never come back. We’d been dating over a decade and now, I was suddenly dependent and couldn’t do anything on my own. Prior to that I’d been employed.

    Secondly, he was experiencing devastating effects from pills and he feared the effects would not go away even after stopping the drugs.

    Thirdly, just when I urged him to talk to his doc, he went to his regular doc appointment to discover this doc he’d been seeing for about a decade completely disappeared. This is how he found out. He showed up and they told him, “He’s not here and you have a new doctor.” We tried to find out but came up empty-handed.

    Unfortunately I was very out of it back then and unable to put the pieces together when he totally and very understandably flipped out.

    I remember Joe as a very gentle person, a lover of music and children, and very much cherished by his family. He died at 45. I know the drugs, which were not his choice, were partly responsible.

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  • Frank can I ask why you jeered at my show? Was that truly necessary? I am not aiming this just at you but pretty much everyone so don’t take it personally. My purpose is to bash psychiatry any way I can. I put a lot of work into what I write, went to school to become a better writer, have published and studied widely, continue to do research on my own, and pay money to keep my show on air. So don’t jeer at it.

    Are we not allies here? Don’t we all want to see the end of locking people up and taking away their rights?

    I ask why on earth, why do we spend so much precious energy, energy that we seem to have so, so little left, on fighting against each other and putting each other down, instead of fighting psychiatry and its discrediting diagnoses. Why are we hurting each other and weakening ourselves instead of fighting the laws, policies. and principles that created this mess? Why are we continuing to act in a hateful, and even vengeful manner toward each other instead of organizing and really doing some good in the world?

    I suggest we begin by taking down the walls that divide us, quitting the over-the-top boundary-setting, continuing to maintain dialogue (spoken conversation preferred) and above all, reach out to our neighbors. We need to cultivate trust, not the distrustful culture they imposed upon us in the nuthouses.

    If we continue to act in a hostile manner to each other then we’re only reflecting psychiatry. We’re not going anywhere. That has to change.

    I’m asking for your support. And maybe we need to each support each other’s efforts, causes, concerns, and look out for each other’s well-being for a change.

    Julie

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  • Tomorrow I am having Dog Pride Day on my radio station! All in good fun. Screw their diagnoses, especially BPD, may that demeaning label get totally mauled! Please call in! This will be a themed party. The theme, being “The More I see of Psychiatry, the More I Love My Dog.” Call in with your dog stories, dog barks, meows, any dog jokes, cat stories, tell me how about your parakeet, anything goes. 11am Eastern, 323-443-7210.

    PS: It will be Puzzle’s birthday.

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  • Yeah, Steve, that’s EXACTLY why I quit Crisis Text Line. I politely left not saying a word about why I was really leaving. I told them I had a job opportunity and I had a time conflict. I just didn’t want to burn bridges. Actually, the real reason was this: I was in it about two weeks and they had us “practice text.” Well guess who was “grading” the practice texts? A computer. And they said the computer was spot on. So a computer was just as good as us. That about did it. Plus their stupid rules. No more than x number of questions, x number of certain types of questions, you had to “paraphrase” a lot, that is, parrot back what the texter said, only use slightly different words so you don’t reveal you’re doing that…..rewording basically….and there were rules about mandatory reporting, too.

    I was hoping I could slide around that mandatory reporting but there was simply no way around it. The program was rigid beyond belief. There was no room for this thing called creativity. This wasn’t helping. This was a human being a bot. That is, robotic responses. Quitting felt very good. Freeing.

    The experience made me question ALL crisis lines. I remember the robotic answers, the deadpan voices, the way they repeated stuff back to me, and the way they had no response to me when I asked eating disorders questions. They would say, “Sorry, we don’t do that….” Because it wasn’t in their fucking manual.

    Many of them gave a warning at eight minutes and then, ten minutes, cut me off. So I learned. Ask in the beginning if they do a ten-minute cut-off and if they did, it wasn’t even worth it, because they were going by a formula. I guess I had them second-guessed. The Crisis Text Line was no different, if anything, worse. I finally learned: DO NOT CALL.

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  • Steve, the only “oversharing” done by therapists that truly bugged me (and I would tell them so) was when I had to be THEIR therapist. And that did happen, but not often. I hated having to pay a therapist only to end up having that therapist bawl during the session, or dump on me about THEIR problems, or tell me about THEIR rotten childhood. Yes I did have one or two like that. I felt extremely embarrassed about it, so much so I felt at a loss and didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know where to turn with this problematic “therapist” nor whom to tell. I finally ended the relationship, much to my relief. What happened? My psychiatrist yelled at me over the phone, claiming I was “delusional.” Wow….I wasn’t.

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  • Hi Frances, You asked about Lithium Orotate, I have been looking around. As far as I can tell, the mainstream research has little to verify one way or another about this stuff but that doesn’t mean it isn’t of value. I mean, it’s one of those products that cannot be patented so…..Apparently there have been very few documented cases of actual deaths due to overdoses, and these were probably deliberately done. Keep in mind that children have overdosed on Total Cereal, iron pills, and chewable vitamins. I see conflicts over who can, and who cannot take LO. My guess is that it’s dose-dependent. My guess is that there’s a small amount of lithium in some of the water supply out there in some locales, and we don’t even know about it. I can see that some people had trouble with it who perhaps overdid it, that is, used too high a dose. They then had a negative reaction and either quit using it, or lowered the dose and then found it more useful. I didn’t read of any ER trips or horror stories from the orotate. I did read of people’s horror stories with Pharma prior to trying lithium orotate and much relief upon switching to what is in fact less “toxic.” I noted the number of people who tried LO and found it useful for trauma. People reported fewer anger outbursts and many stated they had improved sleep. Some said they felt more motivated almost immediately or within days. No one reported anything I recall from my days on lithium carbonate, such as vomiting, pimples, weight gain, the shakes, etc. Many said they wished they’d known about it sooner.

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  • Steve, one of the most helpful things ever said to me while I was inpatient was said to me by a lower-paid “counselor.” God bless this guy who I am sure is not reading this. I won’t say what he said. He literally broke “unit policy” by sharing with me extremely intimate and rather beautiful details from his life. He helped me more than the ones that insisted I follow “protocol” and go to “group.”

    This happened numerous times. The “nice” one that gave us a break. The one that reached out and whispered to me that she knew I was being treated unfairly. The one that risked her job to let me have a cup of “staff” coffee (that one very well may be reading here). As former prisoner I sure have not forgotten these selfless acts of love. I learned that many that reached out, risking their jobs, were later fired, but we never learned why.

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  • Well, Julia, for one thing, I talk to people on the bus. I do public speaking and often I am approached afterward by someone who tells me I made a deep impression on them. I also regularly write to politicians and I DO get a personal response sometimes. Or I call them. I also met with politicians and have had personal discussions with them. I persuaded a pol to cosponsor a bill, which I cannot discuss on here but it is of interest for sure. I have written to the gov of my state and other states numerous times. I have my own radio station where I have guests on periodically, or, sometimes, I just talk about whatever I want. And I’ve been blogging 18 years because I believe in Freedom of Speech. And yes I have been threatened many times, by psychiatry, and even by the police (they had no warrant). Readers from as far away as Romania have read my blog. And many have been positively influenced, or so they tell me, though some are pissed off. I don’t mean to make myself look like anything fancy, only to say that if only you stay alive for six decades as I have, most likely you’ll accumulate a decent-sized footprint, although possibly a controversial one. Let it speak loud and clear.

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  • No not you specifically Julia a lot of others here, too. That is common here on MIA. I honestly wish we’d spend more time writing to politicians and less time on useless debating. I wish we could inform people in power just how horrible the nuthouses are, just how illogical the DSM is, just how dangerous the drugs are, and that suicide increases because of “hospitalization.” I wish we could urge communities to be compassionate instead of claiming people are disordered and then sending them to therapy clinics. We really need to get the word out there. As much as we can. It is so frustrating. We must be persistent.

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  • I ask why, after Emily has so beautifully written here about her life, and sacrificed her privacy, and given to us a gift, shared with us so openly, I ask then why are people now character-bashing her? I ask because as a writer of memoir and longtime blogger, I got the exact same reaction from people who frankly, didn’t even know me and had never met me. They came by the hundreds to tell me what a piece of crap I was. They compared me to their shitty relatives or exes. They even told me they hoped I would die and that I had dug my own grave. Why bash a person who is honestly and openly giving us a slice of her life? People aren’t perfect. I ask why we expect a writer to be that pinnacle of perfection when we ourselves are not? Why throw stones?

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  • oh wow, here is my perspective on “oversharing.” As a writer of memoir and blogger of personal experience, I pride myself on my ABILITY to share and write on anything at all. I pride myself on honing down that skill and writing without any inhibitions. I pride myself on pissing people off by outing the shrinks and therapists that harmed me and others. I am super proud that I still have a great memory of events and conversations and I don’t hesitate to reproduce them in text. I am thrilled to “overshare,” if you want to call it that, the harms I saw in the nuthouses and institutions. I’m mighty proud that they can’t stop me from telling the truth. So keep telling it, let’s all do that.

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  • knowledge, Your description would be ideal IF it were true, however, it isn’t. BPD is given overwhelmingly to young females who may, OR may not fit that description. I am one who did not fit that description. That wasn’t what my family was like, nor was it what I was like. I was given it because they needed to quickly excuse ECT damages. I had not been a chronic cutter nor had I had multiple suicide attempts nor chronic self injury. I wasn’t a drunk nor did that above family description fit mine at all. What happened, then, was tragic and I’ve told this story so many times I really don’t want to anymore. I rose to fit the occasion. Since I wasn’t improving from ECT, the doctors told my family (completely lying) that they should “disengage for their own good”). This is why, now some 20 years later I am spending my Thanksgiving alone. Screw the doctors that did this to my non-abusive family. Screw them. Screw the malpractice and screw the label and screw the DBT that didn’t do a darned thing to heal my brain from the damages from ECT. It only made me feel like a child and I found it completely insulting. Wise mind? Screw that.

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  • Julia, yes, true, but why pay a psychiatrist for a fix? Fixes are great! I have a few up my sleeve, such as a warm pair of boots I bought last year. This “fix” solved a lot, it solved the problem of freezing cold blistered toes and an aversion to going outdoors in cold weather. Now I could have gone to a psychiatrist who would have dxed me with agoraphobia, seasonal affective disorder, and pills. Instead, I obtained the “fix” by putting on my thinking cap, going online, researching which type of boots were best, then, comparing prices and making a decision on which boots I could afford.

    I would highly recommend finding one’s “fix” by putting on the thinking cap one already has, and using common sense. These are free. This will safely avoid the expensive psychiatrist and his lofty office, years of life gone to waste, his diagnoses, his pills, the huge bill, possible lockup, broken families, terrible effects, and early death.

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  • Little Turtle, not all antipsych is alike. I personally do not believe all psychiatrists are “evil” or “bad.” And that, frankly, is a misinterpretation of what antipsych is about. I do see some as feeling this way, but others do not. It is a blanket generalization.

    I do see the field as corrupt. However, most that enter into it are naive young medical students hoping to do good in the world. They assume they’re going to help people when they become full-fledged psychiatrists. During medical school they go through sleep deprivation and heavy duty bullying and brainwashing. They’re told that some people are inferior and to get over it. They’re told to shape up. They’re treated with misogyny. Many medical students turn to drugs to stay up 30 hours straight, drugs such as heavy-duty stimulants, and they end up hooked. Sleep deprivation means these medical students are open to suggestion and further brainwashing. The field is very corrupt, money-driven, pressured, hierarchical, and dishonest. I don’t think they became doctors for this, to worry constantly about threats of losing their licenses, to worry about being sued all the time, to be bullied by supervisors and limited by policies and bribed by pharma companies. But that’s reality for many of them.

    No, psychiatrists aren’t bad people but look at the conditions they’re working under. How can they possibly be decent to their patients? Those that dare to do so get out of it. Honestly I don’t think we should call them bad people. Is there such a thing? To call them evil is like saying they’re inferior, which is like another form of eugenics. I don’t think antipsych believes that at all. It would be contradictory.

    Psychiatry and most of therapy that believes the lie that some people are inferior and need “treatment” forever, the belief in a tiered, divided society and any justification for further division and killing off of supposed inferiors is the root of it all.

    Any belief in inferior humans, such as “narcissists,” “psychpaths,” etc, is eugenics at the very root. Although a person can behave in that manner, and I have witnessed this, I am careful not to call a person a permanent narc.

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  • John Hodgett, I am not sure whose comment you are replying to. I studied voice with Frank Baker as part of my music study and a few others and I also am currently going through the Toastmasters program. I know what you mean about the dreaded “mumbling” and “trailing off at the end of a sentence” that so many people do.

    I also did teaching as part of my masters degree in creative writing. The philosophy we were taught, which I feel is a good one and also aligns well with what I was taught in Frank Baker’s classes, is to find that part of a student’s work that is truly magnificent, whatever it is, and ask that student to do more of it.

    So if a writing student, for instance, does a really good job of depicting dialogue, stress this in feedback. If there’s a passage of brilliant description, but only a paragraph of that, tell the student that more could be added. That way, students don’t leave feeling bad, they are instead encouraged.

    I wish therapists did the same, but I don’t remember their doing that much at all. I recall insults, their telling me how stupid I am, that I did stuff wrong and moral put-downs, telling me how disordered I am, insults to my family that these therapists had never met, gross assumptions, even calling me alcoholic or violent, threats, or telling me if I didn’t follow their instructions and treat them like gods I’d be locked up or I’d die, or the dreaded vague threat of relapse.

    According to Szasz, and I think he was right, is that most will fall into the predicted path that the diagnosis carves for them. Some, however, will rebel and reject the diagnosis. Given that I was a rebellious kid who admired the hippies as role models I am surprised that I didn’t end up the latter, but along with rebelliousness I also enjoyed being a stellar student (almost part of the defiance), so sadly, I enjoyed playing stellar patient (probably defying the student role) for far too many years. I admit it was a huge waste. That isn’t easy.

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  • I agree, Emily, but I also see using help from others as a form of self-reliance. For instance, I can become very dependent due to a broken furnace. Or, I can hire a professional to fix my furnace. I am not competent to fix furnaces and in fact, in some regions it isn’t even legal for an unlicensed person to fiddle with furnaces (this varies by region I believe). Another example is the paratransit, which allows people who use certain types of mobility devices to get around. Some types of devices can’t be used on the public bus system. So while the paratransit might to me, if I were to use it, be totally illogical, and like dependency, since for me, it would be overkill, but for others, it allows for self-reliance.

    This type of overkill is rampant in the mental system. There’s no reason for someone to come and do the laundry for us when we can do it ourselves. Why do they drive patients to appointments in mental health vans or take them to parks or to movies supervised by “staff” when patients can get around themselves? This actually creates fears such as agoraphobia that wasn’t there to begin with. Why repeatedly tell patients that they’ll fall apart on the weekend because the staff won’t be around? Why repeatedly tell patients to arm themselves with “weekend coping skills” like the weekend without staff will be their biggest enemy?

    Back in 1981 when I first heard these scare tactics on a Friday afternoon I was so shocked. I thought, “Gee, I thought weekends meant I had more hours to practice and more hours to get all my assignments done. What on earth are they talking about?” Sadly, it didn’t take long for me to fall right into the trap.

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  • Emily, Changing your major isn’t a disorder. If I recall correctly a majority of students did just that. Nowadays many colleges are aware that students who begin college at 18 are too young to be able to conceive of life in ten years. There’s actually a word for this: Longevity Disconnect. Longevity Disconnect is of course exploited by the student loan sharks! They are well aware that students cannot imagine being in their 30’s. They aren’t cognitively developed yet to understand aging. Of course this also explains rampant ageism among those of that age. AND this explains why a doctor can give young people pills and say, “There’s a chance you’ll get Tardive Dyskinesia in your 50’s.” And guess what? A 19-year-old is not going to even be able to conceive of being 50. They take the drugs with the mentality of…”I feel good now and I do not care how I feel in 20 years.” The pharma companies LOVE longevity disconnect, they are making huge profits on it. You can lecture, scream, show videos, show them books, photos of dying people…nothing will convince them.

    Changing your mind is a human right.

    I changed my mind about psych when I was over 50 and had been a brainwashed mental patient over three decades. changing my mind saved my life.

    At around 19 I changed my academic concentration from music education to music composition. I transferred to a different college and wasn’t called disordered for that. I was called smart. At 26 I went to nursing school.

    At 40 I started my first novel and then, went to writing school. How old was I when I took up public speaking? 58. And started my radio station? 59. I think now I have been blogging 18 or 19 years and counting. And I am starting a job training and new career now at 60. If anyone wants to stop me from using my Freedom of Speech they’ll have to do something very drastic.

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  • I have re-embraced the value of self-reliance, a value I held dearly in my youth since reading Emerson and Thoreau (I come from New England). I am aware that self-reliance is not a universal value but I feel that we, as patients or formerly patients were robbed of our autonomy and ability to do things for ourselves. Women are especially coerced into this dependent role. Therefore, our assertion of self-reliance is work done in exact direction against our roles we were forced to cling to as patients. Everything we do ourselves today is a move against that old diagnosis. Self-reliance will strip ourselves of that mental patient identity.

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  • Ally that sounds like something people go through in life that’s very temporary UNLESS they fall into the BPD trap. The diagnosis seals these behaviors and emotions, crystallizes them as permanent, like putting them on display in a museum forever and ever. So now speculators ooh and ahh at what they see before them. But it isn’t you. It’s a fake. It doesn’t move, it doesn’t change nor budge on its pedestal. It’s their fictional account of you, an impression, a caricature.

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  • Frances I have been trying for years to gather support here and elsewhere for a group action against doctors who drug people irresponsibly with massive doses of sedating drugs causing permanent (or apparently so) inability to initiate or sustain the sleep state. I am in that position also. I am not asking for an action regarding a specific drug, but action against irresponsible overdrugging. Unfortunately, people affected by this have been too exhausted to agree to commit to anything and any effort on my part has run into a brick wall. This has gone on and on for years.

    Some, in attempt to avoid more doctor appointments, have resorted to street drugs. I am tempted to commend these folks. Home remedies are many and varied. I am amazed at the number of remedies coming out of aryurveda. Lithium Ororate can be obtained without a prescription as can many remedies. Some people swear by it. That one I have yet to try. I personally would recommend trying ANYTHING out there within the realm of common sense.Think about it…Do we actually know anyone who has been harmed by vitamins, fresh air, education,and common sense? But we know many harmed by pharma and medical “care.”

    Many times doctors prescribe outside of the realm of common sense. The so-called “trade-off” wasn’t logical at all. was it?

    “You feel okay now, but you’ll die 25 years younger, who cares? You don’t work and you’re a burden to society.” Some tradeoff. That’s literally what we were told, the rationale.

    Frances will you join me in ending irresponsible drugging?

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  • Yes, Bonnie, I agree. As example, right after my ECT damage, after I was told by supposed EXPERT (and I love to blow the whistle here) McLean Hospital gave me the ECT and then, re-diagnosed me as “underlying borderline” by their borderline joke of a doctor, John Gunderson claimed I was “incapable of sitting in a room full of people” which were his exact words, I went back to college at Emerson College in Boston. I also started and completed my first novel. Emerson is not a slacker school and wasn’t exactly inexpensive. As it turned out, I got straight A’s. This wasn’t a disorder. I happen to be both studious and smart, and I like school. I thrive in academia. I never claimed accommodations. I never saw any reason to do so. After all, I am fully capable of sitting in a room full of people! And I don’t need to take tests in a separate room, I don’t see any sense in singling people out like that, nor need for it. I never had an anxiety disorder.

    I recall the reaction of the folks at McLean who had claimed I was incapable. Absolute shock. Pardon the pun. I graduated summa cum laude.

    Meanwhile, a wonderful adjunct prof at Emerson had assigned a project to our class which I loved doing and she told me, “Why don’t you turn this into a book-length project?” I did just that. She loved the book. I published it with a self-publisher. This was way back in 2001. I published the book in 2002 when self-publishing wasn’t as easy as it is now via Kindle and other ebook methods.

    Then the Emerson writing and literature department put out a notice asking if anyone had had a book published among the students, faculty, and staff. I responded as student. Sadly, they claimed my book “didn’t count.” The adult degree program pushed for me, but the WLP program dismissed my book.

    I have no clue what went on behind closed doors.

    After that, I was treated like I didn’t matter anymore. I was nearing the end of school and it wasn’t that perceptible, but I noticed the instructors that had previously highly praised my work now walked by me without waving hello. Unfortunately I signed up with a lazy thesis prof who didn’t show up for our meetings half the time.

    Speaking out is important but timing is everything.

    After I graduated it was the same. I was only asked for money by young student volunteers and I tell them I’m on welfare, and no one ever contacted me for any other reason. I have tried to contact my former profs but I never get a response.

    I get treated better in adult ed and junior colleges. The junior colleges accept seniors, people on welfare, and folks coming out of prisons.

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  • From what I recall, I did not have emotional problems when I first approached mental health professionals. I was experiencing eating issues and was eating erratically. I binged every few days and fasted in between. What happened was that my belly was so full that I was extremely uncomfortable and this caused me to become severely depressed and unable to get out of bed or do much. Over the next few days, when I didn’t eat, I gradually felt better. Finally, my blood sugar was so low I felt lightheaded and high. I was afraid to eat again for fear that it would turn into yet one more binge. I was afraid of food, scared that it would only go on and on, hated my life like that. This wasn’t a mental disorder, nor a personality disorder, it was a nutritional issue, and I certainly didn’t need dangerous amounts of antipsychotics. Therapy wasn’t helping, mindfulness was a joke, my family wasn’t to blame, and none of these incompetent professionals ever asked about my eating for about 30 years. When I tried to tell them, they jeered at me and told me it was “trivial.” They never even questioned when my weight dropped dangerously low. Who were the psychotic ones?

    I am left with permanent insomnia from dangerously high doses of antipsychotic drugs that were given to me over a period of decades. This has nothing to do with withdrawal and everything to do with the ridiculous doses I was given all those years. I notice that most psych victims fall for the “underlying condition” lie they are fed by the time they reach their 50’s. The fancy sleep study places seem to be linked to device manufacturers (hmm…scammy I suspect) and even the Sleepio app does not even acknowledge damage from prescribed drugs (I wrote to Sleepio and they do not acknowledge this exists even though it’s $300, don’t waste your money!)

    I truly believe that these drugs cause the body/brain to lose its ability to initiate and sustain the sleep state. And as far as I can tell it is permanent. I have met people who have had insomnia ten or more years from having been given high doses of sedating drugs. Can we get a lawsuit going…PLEASE…. Don’t cave in to “underlying condition”! Let’s hold the doctors that do this accountable!

    My doctor had me on three antipsychotics at highest possible dose simultaneously and I was not psychotic nor manic. My complaint was my eating disorder, which didn’t need antipsychotics.

    “What you gave me isn’t working.”

    “Okay, I’ll give you more.”

    “That didn’t help.”

    “Okay, we’ll double the dose and add another drug.”

    Folks, we live in a society where we trust these people. I’m asking anyone out there….Let’s take action.

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  • Emily, This is why this happened. For one reason only. You were told you had a terrible disease called Borderline. Then, without even realizing it, you found your identity as that. So you stepped into that role that psych created for you for a while. You fit yourself into that mask. You became that person. It was your job, it was you, you did it well of course, it was who you were. But that’s over now. Mental Health has done the harm, so the gig’s over now. Hear the applause? The world is all clapping. Bow and step off the stage. Step way, way off.

    Ten years from now it won’t be like this. Being emotional is a normal part of being young. Going from one partner to another is normal for a young adult of mating age. Getting straight A’s isn’t a disease, it means you are smart and good at academia…I was, too. In my opinion, the world around you needs to get over it. They are jealous and shouldn’t be calling you disordered just because they can’t seem to do as well as you do. Don’t cave in to their envy.

    Awkwardness? Hah! I beat you at that one. Yesterday I tripped and fell on a crack in the sidewalk, smashed to the ground, and in the process, BOTH lenses popped out of my glasses onto the pavement. The frames stayed on my face. I put my glasses back together. I walked home laughing, totally okay, telling myself I was lucky no passersby stopped to forcibly yank me up. (I love the metaphor here.)

    There’s no such thing as perfectionism. There IS such thing as being talented. Envious people love to put down talented people by calling them perfectionists. I recall one of my past therapists insulted me when I was getting straight A’s. She called it a disorder. Now I question this when certainly my college instructors did not see it as such.

    We live in a world that knocks down excellence in favor of mediocrity, medicating intelligent people, calling them schiz, locking them up, calling them criminals or dissidents, and giving them ECT to lower their IQ. ESPECIALLY WOMEN. We aren’t allowed to use our intelligence, as I have written here: https://medium.com/@madnessinvisible/no-jobs-for-smart-girls-so-the-nuthouse-loomed-ahead-4f1ebfd8b33c

    In a few years, maybe ten, maybe twenty, you’ll look back and laugh over all this, definitely not cry anymore, simply because of getting older. Don’t use labels nor pseudolabels on yourself and don’t use them on others, even celebs. Being young is a blessing, not a mental disorder. Live well. If you are alive you are a winner.

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  • Madmom, I would suggest not saying a word about mental history. If your daughter wants to pursue an academic program AND…AND can do the classroom work…then by all means she should. Just NO NO NO mention of any contact with the system. And talking to oneself, that, by the way, is a trait most professional writers can’t get rid of. You can look this one up. It’s called Inner Speech. Seriously. We talk to ourselves constantly. It is the inner writer in us. We write in our heads. Now this is how you COVER UP that you’re actually talking to yourself if you don’t want anyone giving you looks. Nowadays it’s a snap. Either walk a dog and make like you’re talking to the dog, OR, make like you’re yapping into a cell phone, so, have a bluetooth in your ear all the time. Or…Honestly, Madmom, I really truly do this sometimes…When I catch myself muttering while walking along the street and Puzzle isn’t with me, I grab my totally dead cell out of my pocket and hold it to my ear so I can safely mutter to myself. No one ever knows.

    Trust me, most writers have this problem. Writers of memoir have it the worst. We write in our heads and it comes out as talking out loud. This is extremely embarrassing. It’s like we are writing our lives as they happen. And sometimes, we wish the writer in us would just shut up. I think, though, I am cursed because I don’t think mine will stop till I die. But…..since i’m sitting here with year after year with no writers block yet, and I can write on any topic at all (pick one out of a hat, please), I suppose it is a blessing.

    Perhaps your daughter would enjoy a writing class? Some are more structured, which are most likely better to start with, rather than the looser “workshop” types where you run the risk of ending up with people in the class attacking each other, which isn’t supposed to happen but sometimes does. In one of my summer classes, a super dedicated teacher had written her own textbook and even took the time to meet with each of us individually numerous times to discuss our projects.

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  • When it comes to drugged or undrugged, I can tell a drugged patient a mile away by the twitching or shaking. In the example I gave before of nursing school, they actually cited the shaking as “symptom” of mental illness, but the shaking was from lithium, not from MI, interestingly. If a student gains 50 pounds in six months from Zyprexa, yes, it’s going to be noticed or questioned. I can see concern over diabetes or bone thinning from drugs, or serious heart trouble or seizures, all of which are liability problems for the colleges. These aren’t reasons to kick students out, but maybe reasons to question the drugging, or give extra support to the students. I remember a fellow student had breast cancer. They didn’t kick her out. They supported her. She took a semester off so she could get cancer treatment. (It’s kind of one of those jokes that women with breast cancer end up with more friends while we end up losing all of ours….)

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  • YES! I wish, more than anything, that back in the day…I’m talking 1980 here, I had spoken frankly with other students about my eating disorder. I would have gotten the help I needed by sharing with them. Instead, my own sense of pride and need to keep it secret took over. I wish, above all, that I had never ever gone to mental health where they knew nothing about what I was going through. It was summer and school wasn’t in session. I made the choice to go entirely on my own.

    If I could turn back time, and I cannot, I’d actually go back and talk to that 23-year-old me, who had now been suffering ED a year, and tell that 23-year-old girl to turn her bicycle around and head home. I’d tell her that mental health had nothing to offer her but lies.

    I am saddened that the affluent and progressive college I went to, where I excelled in everything I did, where I was bound for success, where I was in high demand as a performer and composer, that college where I did so well (and paid tuition) now doesn’t even want me back to speak about eating disorders. I have inquired many times and they have told me over and over they don’t want me, they don’t remember me, that ED isn’t relevant to their mission. I keep telling them that maybe some of the students will be helped by what I have to say. I have now contacted their new radio station hoping they might take me as interviewee.

    Ah, the silencing………..

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  • My friend was urged to take a semester off due to “instability” but really, a prof had made advances on her repeatedly. Can we bring this one out into the open as well? Can we point out how many times campus rape is the REAL cause, and can we point out how many times women and people of color or minority religions are asked to leave?

    Can’t anyone be called crazy without any proof? Just send ’em to the counseling center and instantly get rid of them! Inconvenient major? The U isn’t fond of the gay club getting too much support? Is that performance or art project too expensive for the U? Student discovers something about prof that U doesn’t want leaked out? Send ’em to the shrinks to get rid of ’em!

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  • Another thing I thought of: Instances where students were kicked out and then, their lives were made much worse as a result. Look up Sascha Menu Courey, U of Missouri. Student from Canada. I happen to remember that one and i blogged on it. She was raped and went to the U’s health services, was told it was all in her head, and then, if I recall correctly, was put into the mental system, drugs involved, kicked off the swim team, was devastated and killed herself. Big story. Happened a few years back and in my view, the U, the guy that raped her, and psychiatry were all responsible for killing her. Yet somehow that one got all twisted around.

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  • Come to think of it, it wasn’t ME per se that they loathed so much, it was what I symbolized to them. I was Jewish. I had attended Bennington College as a music student. There was so much hatred by the local people toward the college students, who were mostly Jews from New York, practically foreigners to them, invaders, unwanted intruders in that small town. You could see the social split, and I bet it’s still there. From what I could tell, the students hated those they called the “townies” and were just as guilty of bigotry as the “locals” were of antisemitism. So what this school did was a result of that hatred. I was a misfit, and I got the boot.

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  • This happened to me. More than once. In 1984 I went to LPN school, beginning in September of that year. This was mostly a schooling that involved tedious rote memorization. Those of us who were older and had more education behind us wondered why we were there, yet we dutifully did the memorization simply because we figured it would lead to a career in Practical Nursing if we did the slave work. A month or two into the schooling it was very clear that I was the leading student in the class. I was getting the top marks. I felt embarrassed every time the tests were handed back and I had the highest mark. I can’t help it. I’m a good student and I always did well. I told myself I needed to slack off because it sucked being smart and getting nasty looks from the others. I never told anyone I saw a psychiatrist, nor mentioned I took drugs.

    One day, I revealed that little fact to a teacher. Big mistake, but I didn’t know that at the time.

    It took about a month. I continued to excel. Meanwhile, the teacher, who herself had nothing against me, had informed the director of my so-called “condition.” She told me she was going to do this and I saw no harm in it. After all, mental illness was sort of an identity for me at that time. It was 1984. I mean, back then, it made me special and unique. I liked that. Artsy.

    December came. I hadn’t done anything wrong. My grades were still stellar. The director pulled me aside and that teacher and another were in the room. The director demanded that I take a semester off.

    I convened with my friends. We realized it was a convenient way for the school to get rid of me. I got paperwork from the school that indicated it was pretty much impossible for me to return and also, I was being charged a lot of money should I ever do so. The school disposed of all of my records.

    The same thing happened to another one of the older students that they just didn’t like. She sued, and won the lawsuit. I was encouraged to sue also. However, as you indicate in your article, Bonnie, the emotional toll on a person is high. This student, whom I remember well, was about 36 years old when she was kicked out of the school and even at that age, suddenly developed an eating disorder, most likely in response to the trauma of being kicked out. I left town a few years later (also in response to my own loss) and didn’t hear from any of those folks but I was very concerned about her.

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  • I am asking people to PLEASE STOP the default assumption of child abuse!!!! Doing so is so fucking offensive, especially this time of year when some of us have to be alone on Thanksgiving. People enter the System both voluntarily and involuntarily for a huge variety of reasons and those reasons change over time. Please STOP assuming you know other people’s reasons for entering and staying in the mental system. Really such rash assumptions are so fucking offensive. No one can read the minds of other people nor read the minds of other people’s families, for godsake, nor the minds of all the in-laws! If I recall correctly, some shrinks in my past acted like they could, but they were always way off base. I am so put off I feel like quitting MIA for good for my own sanity, or at least complaining to the mods. I am very sick of these completely unfounded accusations of past child abuse that never happened, this is just insane.

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  • Tireless I am not going to argue any longer. You are making huge incorrect assumptions about people you do not even know and have never even spoken to, things that happened decades ago when life was very different. Humans tend to assume everyone else is just like them, has the same flaws and makes the same mistakes. Unfortunately that’s not true. Every family is different and not every family is just like yours.

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  • Tireless, other instances of people who go to therapy who aren’t taken by their parents include people who are already adults, such as working people who go because therapy is covered on their insurance plan. I know an elder who went because she was urged by her PCP. These are examples of people who weren’t taken to therapy by their parents. In fact, in the case of the elder, her parents weren’t even alive. Tireless I’m very sorry you were taken to therapy by your parents but that’s not how it happens for everyone, and you cannot assume it does.

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  • Tireless, that’s not always how it happens. Not everyone is taken to the therapist by their parents. I was older, 23, and had been living away from home for many years. I took myself to therapy and my parents didn’t even know, actually. I didn’t tell them until I’d been going for a few months. When my parents found out, they were bewildered as to why I was going to therapy! The abusive therapists blamed my parents, which is what therapists do by default. My parents were not abusive. Therapy was! I am saddened that the therapists claimed I had a bad mother when I didn’t. I am saddened that therapy so badly harmed my family that I have two nephews and a niece that were raised as if Auntie Julie doesn’t exist. Every holiday I cry over this. Especially Thanksgiving, which I spend alone. I hate hearing about the wonderful time people have with their loving families. I hate seeing the pictures, too. I spent my 50th birthday alone and it was awful, and my 60th is coming up. Our family used to be happy when I was a kid. I can only warn people not to step into the therapist’s office. These people do not unite families, they break them up.

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  • People with CKD are already being told they’re gonna die no matter what they do. Nephrology is a cult of hopelessness. How about actually treating the CKD with a more hopeful attitude? I have gone to kidney forums and found the same theme over and over. The people who stop going to the doctors and start using common sense live longer and feel much, much better.

    Simple dietary changes will work wonders. I do not eat any salt, which means staying away from almost all processed foods and foregoing the restaurants and pizza, but I feel much better. I figured that one out entirely on my own without a doctor.

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  • Having hung around the mental system for decades I can say I knew many battered wives who ended up on the wards. I befriended them. I found they were indeed very distraught. They were called MI along with everyone but at the time I wondered how being battered made a person sick. What sickness?

    It is a metaphorical sickness, not a real one that has germs or lesions. We live in a cruel society. Why should anyone adapt to it and accept it? Anyone who speaks out, rebels, or just doesn’t like the shit they are tossed into gets a mental label. Such was my observation from many years on the wards.

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  • Exactly, AA. I don’t hang with the “withdrawal” community much as I am sick of the drug-based focus on here and of course over there. As I say in my book that’s just about finished, you can stop the drugs and be over with withdrawal but still be very much a mental patient if you don’t shake the treatment-induced dependency. What good does getting off drugs do if you can’t do anything on your own? That and trauma from the so-called treatment, especially incarceration, are the larger damages. Too much focus on the drugs distracts us from the basic human rights issues. I am saddened that MIA ignores this stuff, but that’s the way most of this community is. I suspect that’s because a lot of psychologists hang here and want to keep on doing what they’re doing. It’s a business…..

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  • AA, thanks for validating. I am having trouble getting anyone to own up to being victimized by this. I suspect that this is because most people either die, give up entirely, or go back to drugs, legal or illegal, out of desperation. And they don’t want to admit to such things.

    My latest attack on this is to get a light box because as far as I can tell the problem worsened when cold weather hit and I was forced to spend more time indoors. I end up walking the dog before dawn or after sundown. I’ve never tried one of these devices before but a friend used one and swore by it. These are supposed to keep you awake during the day and asleep at night. Better than sleeping with a machine I don’t need nor want.

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  • The Sleepio program is based on a book by Colin Espie. The book is much cheaper than the computerized program!

    If you want to get Sleepio for free, you can sign up for a research study or get it through your workplace (if you have one). If you sign up you’ll receive an email saying if they can’t find a study for you after 60 days you will be offered a discount on the program.

    What I end up doing, at least once or twice a week is to cancel my activities for the day because I am too sleep-deprived to function. I back out of an awful lot of commitments on pretense that I am “sick.” It is embarrassing.

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  • Seeing as Sleepio doesn’t involve seeing a doctor I checked it out. I found that most of the introductory questions don’t even apply to my situation. I got a zero for sleep score which is the worst possible. I guess it doesn’t work for organ damage. I’ve called many sleep clinics anonymously and they refuse to acknowledge damage from drugs. Oh well.

    Most people I know who have ended up with drug damage affecting sleep resorted to staying on drugs long term or permanently.

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  • Again, nothing here about damage to ability to sleep FROM drugs. The drugs cause physical damage, resulting in complete or partial inability to sleep. For many, the damage is permanent. I’m not convinced CBT is the answer for organ damage. And as usual, the drug companies aren’t owning up to this.

    I have known, or known of people who resorted to opiates due to inability to sleep. There are cases documented of severe insomnia that resulted in death.

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  • Tireless, I don’t understand what inheritance has to do with it. Also, not all parents are abusive nor does ending up in the System make a person automatically “the family scapegoat.” I have known patients who were very loved by their families, and had not been abused by their parents.

    I wasn’t scapegoated by my parents. I have certainly been scapegoated in social situations outside of my family years later, simply because it was easy to place blame on the known nutcase in the group.

    I wish my dad was still alive because he defended me against those docs, and so did my mom. My dad kept telling me about human rights, too. I should have listened.

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  • Yes but there are some religions that brainwash people. I have many times compared psychiatry to a brainwashing religious cult. I did research on that since I was a Moonie for a short while and was subject to brainwashing. The methods are exactly the same.
    Isolation
    Limited contact with the outside
    Slogans and repetition
    Use of confession-like sessions
    Replacing your current beliefs with their beliefs
    Threats if you dare leave
    A Devil figure, who will snatch you up outside the cult (relapse)
    Discrediting of anyone who speaks out against the cult
    Replacing your identity with new identity as cult member (patient)

    Etc.

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  • Fear is not a habit like smoking is. It is an automatic reaction that is borne of experience. Statistics show that people who are in marginalized populations tend to fear the police more, for good reason because they’ve seen more police cruelty in their communities. So fearing the cops comes from experience, it is not something chosen. A woman who has been raped may be fearful afterward and perhaps be extra cautious to lock her door or not go to certain places. She may fear the perpetrator and avoid contact, or get a restraining order. The fear protects her to a large extent. If you are a kid and you are beaten up by another kid in the neighborhood, you may avoid that kid, and this is because your fear is protecting you. Fear keeps us from walking in the street because our fear of being hit tells us what will happen if we do.

    I recall being too confused to fear ECT while it was going on, and now I truly wish my protective instinct had kicked in because I would have stopped the shock sooner.

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  • When you say disinheritance, do you mean disengagement? I know with ECT, if the damages are high, the offending institution calls the patient a hopeless case and often instructs the bewildered family to “disengage” from the patient, which may mean not speaking to her or refusing to include her as a member of the family.

    As for inheritance that’s another matter. I’m thinking of buying a life insurance policy so i can leave money i don’t even have for a charity. But most policies are too expensive.

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  • I don’t care if a person believes a spaceship is coming down to take them away. Oddly, a lot of people have this bizarre idea that a human who lived 2000 years ago is part god, should be worshiped as one, and is actually coming back. They even have bizarre beliefs about rising from the dead. None of these folks are harming anyone by believing these oddities. In my opinion it isn’t for me to judge whether a person is “distressed” simply by their beliefs. It is their actions, whatever they may be, that may, or may not, be concerning to others. In theory anyway.

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  • Human rights/patient advocate lawyers are few and far in-between. Your very existence was a threat to them and I’m sure they had vested interest in silencing you or discrediting you in some fashion. From what I can tell, silencing anyone who mentions human rights is a universal phenomena inside the System. I’ve even heard from some doctors that use of the word “rights,” no matter the context, is a sign of paranoia. False as this statement is, it is proliferated in the System, even by some patients.

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  • Larry, From what I can tell, within this community many have been harmed by psychiatry. This includes many who have been accused of paranoia every time we speak out about human rights. I think by default we shouldn’t be accusing each other of paranoia, simply because it is totally hypocritical, never mind rude and offensive, to do so.

    It is rude is most any context even outside of here. If, say, you accuse a neighbor of paranoia in an argument over a lawn upkeep issue. What are you doing except discrediting that neighbor, dismissing his claims and also wrecking his reputation in the eyes of the outside community by calling him psychotic? He may very well be mistaken or misinformed, or maybe you’re mistaken, or there was a failure to communicate, but none of these has much to do with a mental disorder.

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  • Yeah Larry but in my past other people have been extremely cruel and used that label to totally discredit me. So it’s a sore spot.

    My doctor claimed that human rights were “trivial” and claimed that I was paranoid a number of times.

    A male therapist asked me out on a date early in 2013 and when I reported this to my psychiatrist she claimed “That’s impossible,” and she called me paranoid and psychotic. I was telling the truth and she was obligated by law to report him since psychs are mandatory reporters.

    Brainwashed patients claim that the human rights abuses I witnessed and those that were done to me never happened and call me paranoid as a way to totally devoice me and ensure no one else believes me, either.

    Yes it is offensive. If anyone calls me paranoid, or any euphemism for it, I unfriend.

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  • Dee, I did a search for your username and saw your posts, this being earlier today, that is, searched using my browser’s search function.

    Larry, NEVER accuse a person of paranoia, even in jest. It is a very cruel thing to say. Just like around certain people and in certain circles you don’t bring up sexual matters or, or sometimes, politics, because you might offend someone.

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  • Dee, I saw that post and thought it was amazing. I don’t see it now, either. I didn’t see anything in there that was at all offensive, either. I found what you said touching and poignant. You made a great point, too.

    We are activists, and for many of us, the cost is high. We DO lose friends over this. For some, the financial toll is very high. Never mind working our butts off only to be silenced or ignored, or even condemned. Some run the risk of re-capture. I totally understand if a person drops out because of these immense losses. I’ve heard many wise words from activists who are older than me or who have been in it longer.

    I have not stopped nor gotten tired of it, but I am aware of the hardships others have gone through. Many have to make the decision and ask where their priorities are. Those of us still in the position to speak out and willing to keep up the fight need to fight even harder.

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  • No, we can’t use the constitution as our defense because we aren’t seen as fully human nor worthy of human rights once diagnosed.

    We’re told we have occasional choices under the guise of “health choices” but it’s usually between one prison and another, one drug and another.

    You can have ECT or state hospital, after all, take your pick.

    This is funny: I was told to “choose” the “better” state hospital. Umm…….There is no good prison.

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  • I have never known acupuncture to be forced on a person. I’ve never heard of anyone court ordered to get it. And in my own personal experience no one walked up to me and said “All your problems are because you are deprived of acupuncture, and you’d better go!” That’s a little different from what I actually hear, which is, “Have you tried acupuncture. I did, and found it beneficial,” Or, “I tried it and it didn’t help.” Sharing experience is useful, sure not the as coercion.

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  • JanCarol, I agree. I have a hard time with religious proselytizing of any sort. I realize though that in some religions they see proselytizing as a religious duty and they believe with all their hearts that pushing religion on others is “helping” or “saving.” So keeping this in mind I politely take their pamphlets, thank them, and then, firmly end the conversation.

    However, some folks have gotten to the point of imposition. For instance, a few really pushy and imposing people claimed that any problem I have is my own fault because I choose not to meditate. This is has extended to physical drug damage, dishonest landlords, and being broke. Meditating or not, or praying, or not, is my choice and my right. I am sure that having a dishonest landlord isn’t caused by my not meditating! I cannot control other people. For me to believe I had that power would be grandiose.

    I also do not like the mindfulness pushers, therapists especially, who tell you, in essence, that “mindfulness” is universal, that it will work for anyone. They will criticize you for multitasking even! If you don’t believe in it these folks will turn the blame on you.

    Then there are the deep breathing pushers. I have to laugh. I cannot tolerate some self-righteous health nut half my age telling me to take a deep breath when I’ve been breathing just fine since well before they were born. How dare they tell me I am breathing wrong! I tell them so!

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  • Oh how funny. I just read an article about how great ECT is and it was all about ECT at McLean where I had it some 20 years ago. And get this: They say the antipsych movement is fueled by One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. I wrote to the “doctor” who wrote the article and told him he was incorrect about that. The wonderful Kesey play is fiction, well done fiction, but we are driven by real experience (ours) and real facts, real life stories, real studies, actual statistics, even theirs they didn’t want leaked out.

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  • Bonnie, I can relate. I did NaNoWriMo a number of years. I think I finished maybe five times. I wrote some memoir (which my degree is in) but in 2010 I took on the challenge of a novel. I never edited it after I was done with the 30-day marathon. I loved the book so much that I posted it for free, as is. Yes it really is painstaking work. Bit by bit…right?

    There is a book out that i have used that’s really good (for anyone out there) to help you structure a super workable outline. It’s Book in a Month by Victoria Lynn Schmidt. I would get the wire-bound if you can, don’t use the Kindle version (unless you know how to file-convert the .mobi file to printable, then print out many pages!). She may have a web version by now. You do not have to do it in 30 days, this is just a workbook.

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  • Oh yeah! I remember that, someone mentioning “recovery movement” to me. Is this Ellen Copeland? I saw her book and didn’t find it at relevant. I was kinda turned off by the principles of it that my friend was mentioning, but at the time I wasn’t sure quite why I was turned off. She mentioned censorship of any medical terms. Not just psych terminology, but even regular medical terms such as “I have a fever” or “I really need to drink because I get dehydrated easily.” And the whole concept of censorship based on “triggering.” I ask who on earth defines what is triggering and what isn’t! Undoubtedly, whoever is in charge, right? Yes that pisses me off. Especially after the fight of my life was over Freedom of Speech. That is a precious thing I hold onto dearly. Does the “recovery” movement still exist?

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  • I agree Dr. Nash, I think that if we are going to be effective, not only do we need organized effort, but we also need to demonstrate what we believe in in our personal lives.

    Too often I see discrediting of diagnosees, even by people who should know better, such as fellow survivors. I see use of pseudodiagnoses also, such as calling a person delusional without using the word. Don’t do that. Walk the walk.

    Too often I see us bashing each other when that will only weaken us. I can’t figure out what to do about that, as it seems rampant. We need a solid plan, and solid leadership from within.

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  • I don’t think cell phones and other electronics caused psychiatry. Actually our movement is allowed to flourish because of technology. Before that, they used phone conferencing, but now we have the internet to connect us. Also the smartphone was not anticipated by psych and they are kinda overwhelmed that now, patients have easy internet access via the smartphone. This is a blow to them. We can now tell the truth and many will read or listen to what we say, even though most of us have never been able to pursue through legal means.

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  • In my opinion veterinarians treat their patients (and owners) very well. My vets have always petted Puzzle and played with her, calling her Sweetie, and most have treats for the dogs. As a pet owner I know most people treat their pets better than mental patients are ever treated.

    But the expression, “treated like an animal” usually isn’t comparing to the loving relationship with a pet, but perhaps to cattle being sent to slaughter.

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  • Hi, I have read that mannitol has been shown to be effective in reversing Parkinson’s. I don’t know if it has been tried for TD but in my opinion you won’t know till you try. There was a study in the UK and the results looked hopeful. I have seen anecdotal evidence on forums, folks stating they had Parkinson’s and the mannitol reversed it and they were no longer shaking.

    My naturopath does not recommend it but I tried anyway and found it useful. Anyone who tries it should be aware that you need to use it cautiously. Too much will get you running to the bathroom. My guess is that the amount that’s “too much” varies from person to person. I was lucky and could tolerate it just fine.

    On the whole, common sense trumps Western Medicine by far. Using it is a skill that improves the more you learn to trust yourself first and foremost.

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  • I agree with Bonnie. My experience as a published writer of memoir tells me this. People are uncomfortable with the truth! The way my own friends (now ex-friends) so rudely refused to buy the book was shocking to me. Total sales were about five sold, in the six years it was in publication. Even my graduate school buddies refused. I am clueless as to why they dropped their support and friendship because we were on good terms when I was in school.

    In my opinion, well, if it were me, and my friend, someone I cared about published a book you bet damn well I’d go to their readings and purchase the book even if I didn’t have time to read it. I’d read the book and support the author in non-monetary ways such as upvoting the book, reviewing it, and otherwise standing by it. Why? This is what it means to be a friend. If a friend has an art opening you bet I’ll be there. Sadly, the friends I had not only rudely refused, but bashed me also. Without even opening the cover, I got remarks like “It’s probably badly written,” or, “I don’t want to read it if it’s about abuse.” It is not about abuse, but they hadn’t read it, of course. Also I got rude people saying “If it’s about human rights I am not interested.” They had no clue I had put six years of hard work into it, no clue what how much work goes into an MFA degree, no clue the emotional investment I made. No amount of arm-twisting worked and I realized I had to end these relationships with nonsupportive people whose aim was to put me down any chance they could get. I did hear from folks who couldn’t afford it and I understand. This is why it’s now free.

    Also, it took me all those years to admit to myself Chipmunka was a scam. Interestingly, this parallels ECT. When I had it I refused to admit to myself that ECT had harmed me because I had chosen it, actually asked for it. Who could admit to themselves that they had willingly harmed the brains God had blessed them with? (This aspect of ECT is in my documentation)

    People are uncomfortable with real life. They’d rather escape into fiction. Furthermore they don’t want to pay a high price for a book so this is why I think in the USA simply requesting that Bonnie’s book be ordered at your local library would be the best approach, and, if possible a book discussion group would also further the cause. I’m thinking that high end bookstores in wealthy parts of your town might carry it.

    The book could be given as a gift also, as the timing is perfect for Christmas. Did you plan it that way, Bonnie?

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  • Bonnie given the price of the book in the USA, my suggestion would be to concentrate on getting it into libraries. This costs nothing for the library patron who requests the book. And anyone out there who has privileges at a library for the blind can get it made into Braille and audiobook.

    Is it being made into an audiobook for the general public? I am willing to narrate it, if you want. Since starting my radio show I have obtained an excellent microphone and am certainly experienced at reading aloud for audiences. Not only that but I survived ECT. I can also do sound file editing.

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  • Bonnie, I agree. Many readers only read novels and avoid nonfiction. I believe this is rooted in our school days when a novel meant fun and nonfiction meant Your Teacher Made You Read It and Write a Paper. Readers want to be entertained and for whatever reason they conclude that only fiction will do this (which isn’t true but that’s the general belief). They want a page-turner, and if the plot doesn’t constantly move along, they’re likely to put the book down.

    I am excited to read the book. I can do some of the things on your list and will be happy to help out. Since I have experience writing a book that didn’t sell, I learned just how essential marketing is. Marketing the book well will make or break it as a publication.

    I would like to add a couple of electroshock harms to the list. 1) Witnesses to shock are traumatized.

    2) After electroshock damages a person, the perps are likely to claim that the cognitive problems were from an “underlying psychiatric condition.” This is classic behavior in malpractice. “Your cancer was always there, we didn’t upstage it” is a common excuse (Look up Amy Reed). In ECT, the patient is told they were always confused, and/or told it was “latent BPD.” The new BPD or other diagnosis is terribly harmful.

    3) After damaging a patient that patient is often sent to a state institution, nursing home, or other long-term, restrictive facility. Or put on disability.

    I have available online ENTIRELY FREE both my memoir, which contains information about my post-ECT experience in the chapter “Walking the Line,” book completed in 2009. By the way, I found out that at least one inpatient facility has BANNED my memoir. Stripe on the uniform!

    I also have posted in my blog the entire 28-page testimony to the FDA about my ECT and post-ECT.

    All found at juliemadblogger.com. I have been blogging 18 years now. They can’t stop me!

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  • No, the therapist didn’t commit suicide. A Lanza did. Just another screwup I did due to not being able to see the computer screen, and I deeply apologize for that.

    The therapist fled the country knowing he was guilty of abusing Adam, and he knew he was the perp. That I know of, there was no publicity over this. Adam (and his family that raised him) was seen, and still IS seen, as a subhuman monster. He was an innocent kid who was horribly abused by a therapist. Period. Newtown was the consequence of therapy abuse. The person kills him/herrself, and sometimes, takes others, too. I’m lucky because I got over the trauma without doing something like that.

    There’s a cool blogger named Cathy Eck who talks about Black Sheeping. Read her entry (sorry I don’t have a link.) She claims to have insight into school shooters. The entry does show a lot of clarity into what it feels like to have no friends, to be totally disenfranchised, and to be feared by others for completely arbitrary reasons. It was like that for me in 2012. I’m lucky I got through it.

    (NOTE: I no longer feel that way. I’m way way past that now.)

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  • Oldhead, were you ever harmed by a therapist? I know a few who committed suicide because of therapy. Actually most I knew who killed themselves successfully did so due to the harms of therapy.

    I was harmed by a therapist, too. I had a narcissistic one. And one decades ago who was antisemitic. One who made sexual advances toward me. These things are done in privacy, with no witnesses, and almost always, the patient has no recourse and is simply called delusional.

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  • Bradford, when a person commits suicide I first ask if there was a therapist. Often the therapist drove the person to suicide without even knowing it. Therapy sustains the disease state, upholds it, and nurtures it,keeping the person sick. Poor Matt never stopped therapy, and if you read his eloquent blogs on so-called BPD, he seems to worship that therapist just a bit too much. It is a classic sign of abuse. He sees her as his savior, that God on High. I tried very hard to confront him on this, to get him to see that maybe he should consider becoming independent of her, but no way would he hear me out. I have just done a radio show on this sort of abuse as I myself was subject to it in 2011, in Boston. The initial signs are worship of the therapist. Adam Lanza was abused by his therapist also, and the therapist fled the country after Adam did the Newtown shooting and killed himself. So sad that this is overlooked. Drugs are not the only problem with the mental system!!!
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/09/26/abusive-therapists

    Abusive therapists are not all that rare, either. Matt and I argued over this, and he actually said I was psychotic to call my therapist abusive. I don’t think so. My name has been cleared.

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  • I am saddened to hear this. I always felt that Matt had been swept away too much by the fake BPD diagnosis, and yet at the same time, he claimed to have shaken it off. He tended to be arrogant in my eyes, I didn’t write to him much. I was saddened that he still clung to his therapist and was still very much addicted to the process, and held “the therapeutic alliance” in such reverence. I tried to tell him that therapy is invariably a false construct, a power structure that exists solely to degrade the patient and keep him disabled and needy. I felt the need to stop my involvement with the ISEPP mailing list (“therapy is good and drugs are bad” bullshit) and pretty much didn’t hear from Matt anymore. I know he kept his activism and his personal life separate, which is notably admirable. I recall he used a pen name for a while.

    No suicide is done alone. There is always a perp. Sadly, almost always, these things are shrugged off as “mental illness” and the perp walks without a scratch.

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  • I have overheard the following microagressions stated about myself. “Patient claims she does not smoke.” This is biased since it is OBVIOUS I don’t smoke. I would stink of it if I did. I conclude that the nurses smoke. That’s why they cannot distinguish who smokes and who doesn’t.

    “Minor chest pains.” Fellow patient had depression diagnosis and was a frequent flier. They didn’t even check her vitals and they sent her home, telling her to call her therapist. She had a heart attack. She lived.

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  • Yeah, Fiaschra, I hope I spelled that right. For decades, pacing, in my case, was considered a “symptom of mania.” I was never manic! Every single time I paced they called it mania and gave me mania drugs. but I was never manic! The pacing ended completely when I stopped the drugs. So…did that “cure” so-called mania? Hmmm….. I am mostly saddened that this want on and on for DECADES.

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  • I think Slaying needs to keep this other topic off this page, (), for the sake of not going “off topic.” After all, the mods cut out any comment they want based on claims of “off topic” or even claims that you’re “self-promoting.” Anything to get comments off the page they don’t want.

    Really a lot of the blogs here are themselves for purpose of self-promotion, ahem scammy Brogan, as example, and various promotions of “alternative treatment centers….” (Treatment for WHAT DISORDERS?) We’re observing the mods are getting out of control these days.

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  • Dr. Breggin, can we get you and Michelle on my radio station sometime? Or…Would the DA object? How can I contact Michelle? Even when I read the original story my heart cried out for her, even though my facebook friends called her a monster. I really knew all along she was not to blame.I was called a monster too in my lifetime. I have written (and broadcasted) extensively on the subject already. Please contact me. You can get in touch via [email protected] I really want to help out.

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  • Lawrence, Please email me about this “disability incentive” at [email protected]. I would like to interview you on my radio show since you have knowledge of this….

    i happen to recall my first “disabilty” interview. And I also recall telling the rehab where I ended up that I had an eating disorder, which was then disregarded. The only way they could hastily get me onto disabiliy was to outright LIE and say I had schizophrenia. They knew I did not. Oddly, when I left the rehab I told them my ED had improved, and the director said, “What ED? I never knew you had one.”
    After the schiz diagnosis, my psychiatrist insisted I heard voices. I was cornered into inventing what the voices told me, for years after that, since he kept asking! I studied books on schiz to learn what voices were all about (Torrey…) and studied my fellow patients who were capable of hearing them, but I was a poor faker. It took them 30 years to figure out I had an eating disorder! How loudly could I scream it! Then, they recorded that I had “just developed” it in my 50’s just to cover their hides. How badly could they LIE……

    Please get in touch, I’m in the business of bashing psychiatry…..I figure after all these years and all the damages, it’s ABOUT TIME.

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  • Regarding the photo of the Haldol mug. I STOLE one from a psych ward and kept it many years. It didn’t look like that mug, though. It looked more like a standard diner mug. It had a crack in it, I recall, never quite looked clean. Held about ten ounces of coffee maybe.

    I stole the mug during my first, or perhaps my third hospitalization/imprisonment in Putnam Memorial Hospital in 1983. Undoubtedly the nurses knew I stole it. I was on the fifth floor, end of the hall where the psych ward was. It’s now called Southwestern Vermont Medical Center. Guess they wanted something more generic. They did away with the psych ward, too. that I know of. I no longer own the mug. I tossed it. I had some pens, too, guess like everyone did.

    I suppose this was off topic but I saw that Haldol mug and it brought back memories.

    Someone I know drugged their kid……..who had a developmental delay or something…..terrible. For a behavior “control” thing.

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  • My naturopath is right about a lot of stuff. I have a good relationship with him. If I disagree I tell him so and we discuss things openly. He says cayenne will stop bleeding, so I tried it one day and YES if you mix a spoonful of the spice in water, drink that, it’ll stop a nosebleed far sooner than it normally would stop. I like him because we joke around a lot, and he hates psychiatry. I love to share a few anti-psych jokes with him.

    I have a good relationship with the ladies who work in the health food store. I stop by all the time. They ask me how the radio show is going and I tell them it’s going very well. Not one of these folks is a doctor. I’m glad. I never ever see one. I guess I’m saving taxpayers an awful lot of money.

    I got a job. In a while I’ll be off “disability.” Years ago those shrinks claimed I was incapable. Oh, someone else round here said I was “creepy.” Good thing no one else said that.

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  • Dee From what I can tell, most of the medical device industry is full of scams and shoddy research. I keep researching how much “sleep apnea” has increased, is surely overdiagnosed (umbrella widened as to what defines “apnea”) and these devices pushed on people who very well may have other sleep problems. This seems to have happened to a friend of mine, sadly.

    Another imminent for me is kidney dialysis. Since it’s expensive (via “insurance”) and most are on medicare, they actually let you refuse.. Normally you die, IF you follow doctor’s message of “no hope.” My plan is to refuse, of course. No scam machine for me. I think they are hiding something from the public, if you read their slick literature about how “great” dialysis is!!! Really? Just like ECT was great….. If I do natural medicine, and stay far away from doctors and hospitals, they’ll never notice I’m in end stage renal. Nor will I. I feel fine.

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  • Svava, Thanks for the enlightening story, although it’s sad to see how badly they treated you! In my opinion perhaps because you were an athlete somehow you were over-producing lactic acid which comes from your muscles during exercise. This has to be excreted by the body, but sometimes your body can’t catch up. So there’s too much produced, but it’s not excreted fast enough, so the lactic acid produces the panic attack. And that’ it! IT’s not emotional, but it is so scary to have those attacks, that it starts to become associated with scary events and places…….. Usually a person changes lifestyle and that will get rid of the panic attacks. Which might mean finding nice people, better friends, quiet spaces, relaxing times, reading, etc. Sometimes less coffee, too, or less alcohol.

    Certainly not getting oneself imprisoned and taking dangerous drugs without informed consent. Geez you were snowed with them. That is terrible you were given all those.

    Julie

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  • I won’t be taking any MIA continuing Ed classes until I see survivor-taught classes. I am sooooo tired of the assumption that MH professionals are the experts. I offered to teach a madness memoir class and that was turned down. I asked about someone (a mathematician, hopefully a survivor) teaching a statistics class, or rather, on how to interpret statistics in “studies.”…I have not received a response on that. I have NO interest in taking a class that assumes these MH “professionals” who have the audacity to claim they know better.

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  • I have been cyberbullied as a semi-senior (over 55, under 65). I learned that there was nothing under law that I could do about it, since I am not a minor nor a college student. I know that the person/people were likely hired. I suspect they were trying to induce emotional distress, possibly suicide. They did not succeed, not even close. The bullying stopped abruptly and I never discovered the source. I have since found out that I am not alone, that other fully grown adults (often, writers like myself) have had this happen and there’s little recourse. I also suspect the intent, in the case of other bullying incidents, was to induce a suicide or induce an attempt. If it is any comfort, MLK had the same thing happen. They tried it on him, too.

    Julie

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  • Very true. Having overheard conversations… and talked to some of them, both who work at such places, and those who formerly worked there. Drugs, both justified via “Oh I get it from a doctor!” and totally off the street…” are partaken by staff at all levels. They get around the drug testing. They know how, for chrissake. I doubt any study is going to show this with any accuracy.

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  • Hi Everyone, I’m surprised there are so few comments here, but….given that the mods have been having their heyday censoring lately, well….

    Anyway, I am re-broadcasting the show I did dedicated to Michelle Carter, This is very relevant and I hope you guys have a listen. It will broadcast via telephone Sunday at 1:30PM you can listen at 323-443-7210, if you don’t have web access, or, if you wish, access on the web at….
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/09/10/reading-destructive-teen-relationships-michelle-carter-and-my-own-story

    I really put a lot of effort into this so I hope ya’lls come down and have a listen. The station is growing strong and gaining ground. If anyone wants to come on the show as guest, kindly get in touch. Julie

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  • Might I also add the following: She was two weeks out of “treatment” for her eating disorder.. ED “treatment consists of force, force, force, force-feeding, forced weight gain, bathroom privacy invasion, privacy invasions ten times worse than in regular psychiatry, isolation ten times worse, and brainwashing. They use scare tactics using a Devil-like make-believe character named Ed, acronym for Eating Disorder. The force-feeding causes rapid weight gain, horribly traumatic to a person with anorexia. You leave those places feeling like you have a body not your own. You leave feeling horribly violated. Even if you were not tube-fed, they typically stare you down while you eat, this being terribly frightening to a person with ED. I can’t believe she wasn’t totally shaken during those weeks following her McLean stay, unable to concentrate, with very low self-esteem, most likely suicidal herself as well. These ED treatment centers destroy young people’s lives.

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  • Anyone out there interested in talking on this topic I’m having a radio show this evening starting at 6:30 going for ONE HOUR ONLY. Topic: Leadership and the Psychiatric Survivor Movement: Where do we go from here?

    Here is the blurb:

    Call in to speak with the host

    (323) 443-7210

    This is a ONE HOUR call-in show. Who shall lead us now that the Movement has gotten so large? Who is best qualified? Why is it important not to rely on “providers” to take up these roles any longer? Who shall speak out as authority? Who shall be the decision-makers? Where shall the hub of our leadership be located? These and other questions will be explored tonight.

    Feel free to call in!
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/09/07/leadership-and-the-psychiatric-survivor-movement-where-do-we-go-from-here

    Julie

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  • Anyone out there interested in talking on this topic I’m having a radio show this evening starting at 6:30 going for ONE HOUR ONLY. Topic: Leadership and the Psychiatric Survivor Movement: Where do we go from here?

    Here is the blurb:

    Call in to speak with the host

    (323) 443-7210

    This is a ONE HOUR call-in show. Who shall lead us now that the Movement has gotten so large? Who is best qualified? Why is it important not to rely on “providers” to take up these roles any longer? Who shall speak out as authority? Who shall be the decision-makers? Where shall the hub of our leadership be located? These and other questions will be explored tonight.

    Feel free to call in!
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/09/07/leadership-and-the-psychiatric-survivor-movement-where-do-we-go-from-here

    Julie

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  • Ivy if you want to come on the radio and tell your story, I have a radio show and I can have guests come on. Part of the purpose of the show is to EXPOSE PSYCHIATRIC abuse such as this. I am looking for folks willing to share stories we don’t hear often, stories we don’t see in the papers, stories that are routinely not allowed in most public settings, stories by people who are persecuted for telling the truth about what happens in such places.

    As long as you feel okay doing so and you feel you’ll be safe from retaliation, I’d love to have you on.

    Julie

    my show is at blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger and I’m on all the time blasting away psych!

    my blog is at juliemadblogger.com you can contact me there.

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  • Apologies to Dr. K. Due to being lied to about the drugs for years, I stayed on them, thinking they weren’t harming me. Well that’s most likely why I don’t see well now, and why I really had no clue what type K he was. Yes people mess up my last name, too.

    My radio show is on right now not at a regular time, but whenever Blog Talk Radio has slots and whenever I have the time. I try to do radio often. I have a show on Michelle Carter also. It’s fairly lengthy and involved, a response to Breggin’s post that I feel will be helpful to the defense and I hope they find my broadcast.

    I would suggest subscribing so you will be notified of shows. Some shows are pre-recorded and some are call-in (live). So if you subscribe Blog Talk Radio will notify you in your time zone. You can call in using a telephone. We are having guests on, too, and people have been calling in and there’s been a lot of enthusiasm. Here’s the URL:

    http://blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger

    Here is the URL to my blog.
    http://www.juliemadblogger.com

    Go to the sidebar and you’ll see my FDA testimony regarding electroshock. The document is rather detailed and involved. Never mind I think it’s most likely an entertaining and enjoyable read, and hits home. I should read excerpts from it on my show.

    Meanwhile I am working on putting back together a show that BTR messed up due to their error. I have to redo it, but that’s okay, I’m having fun.

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  • I”m chipper because I ditched psychiatry and I have FUN every chance I get ratting on them on my radio station and in my blog….

    juliemadblogger.com
    blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger

    And we’re having some great guests coming up! Anyone who wants to be a guest on the show and BLAST AWAY PSYCHIATRY is welcome to be my guest. Dr. Kellerman (sp?), you seem to want to chime in with the rest of us, and I find your views fascinating, so you are welcome as a guest my show. Kindly contact me via my blog. Would love to continue the dialogue out loud.

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  • “People choose their own paths.” True. However, what happens once you end up on the wrong path? You might be lost. You might be stuck on the wrong road for a long time and not have any options because your only options are to turn around or to turn off, and what if there are no turnoffs? You can only plough ahead. Or…bushwhack. You might take a very very long time to get back on the right road again. For just about everyone, it isn’t like you snap to it, and then, suddenly, you use the ruby slippers and then, wow, you’re back HOME. Nope, it’s not like that. You try Google maps which often gives you error messages. You ask for help and people either shrug, can’t help, or actually point you in the wrong direction. Are you sick of my pushing the metaphor too far? Well….

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  • I would be interested in that paper you wrote on height. Only because I am short and I use my height as a joke when I do public speaking. Why am I short? I found out recently. I have scoliosis. No it doesn’t hurt. It is just there. So my whole family is an inch shorter than we should be. Oh at least. So…that explains it. Go figure. I always wanted to be taller…but it wasn’t in the cards and I’m fine with that.

    I am very happy to be short now that I am older,even though when I was a kid I got teased. No it doesn’t need “fixing.” I am totally convinced that being short is just plain more efficient. it is less expensive in the long haul. I should be charged half price.

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  • A few? It’s the norm. Last time I saw the western medical people they ROLLED THEIR EYES at the thought of a 60-year-old woman being able to run. Yes, I run, and entire 5k in fact. Often on a treadmill these days, sometimes, on the street if the lighting is good. Shame on those “staff.” They are in the business of filling beds, not in the business of healing. Not these days.

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  • Is pharma, and/or the doc/institution paying these courts big money to silence Dr. Breggin? Wouldn’t Michelle’s doc and the doc’s supervisor have vested interest in keeping Dr. Breggin (and us) silent on this matter? Where did she get these prescriptions? Where was she going for psych and/or counseling? Why are these people walking free? Who was Conrad Roy seeing, and why aren’t they held accountable? My guess is that these “professionals” have good reason to silence Breggin. And all of us. So let’s NOT BE SILENT ON THIS.

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  • I’m not sure that ADHD specifically causes the opoid “epidemic.” It could be one cause.

    I think the way medicine is structured partially causes it. Doctors are reluctant to address the root cause of physical pain.

    For instance, consider this possibility: Say you have a headache. You are more likely to be told to take NSAIDs than to be told the cause of your headache. This especially if you are known to be a complainer. You very well could have mold in your home, or could have a carbon monoxide leak, or lead in your water. They will give you “prescription NSAIDs.” Then they’ll resort to painkillers.

    Then, opoids for your headache. You’re hooked….

    A year later, while you are away at opoid rehab and your kids are in foster care, your landlord is sued by another tenant in your building for dead batteries in the CO detector. Your doctor? He walks free. You are labeled an ADDICT for life.

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  • Janet I recall that. I wanted to get “treatment” for my eating disorder in 1982. I didn’t get it so I got desperate. They were avoidant, claiming I was “faking it for attention.”

    So finally I showed up at the hospital ER early in 1983, hoping for actual help. My roommate was right. She had said, “If you show up at the ER, they HAVE to treat you.” Well, yes. They took me. But they failed to address my eating disorder…

    …for the next thirty years!!!!!

    Julie

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  • okay but why do some get CFS and others do not? I lived in South America and I had a place filled with mold…I literally fled. It was sooooo gross! I didn’t get CFS. I was beyond disgusted, though, and concerned for my dog’s health. I knew people who got sick from mold there, quite ill. Why do some, and not others? Some got ill (respiratory, mostly) from mold after Katrina, others did not, children mostly….Why you? Did you get any explanation?

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  • Stopping Freedom of Speech of those who speak out on behalf of human rights seems to be universal. I found this in my travels:
    https://chaoticpharmacology.wordpress.com/2017/08/27/against-the-board-of-registration-in-medicine-brm-american-society-and-addiction-medicine-asam-and-like-minded-doctors-lmd/

    Pretty much anyone who speaks out on behalf of the greater good, who blows the whistle on wrongdoing will be silenced, persecuted, exiled, called crazy, maimed, muted, discredited, threatened, gaslighted, bullied, pushed to suicide, imprisoned, drugged, or killed.

    Julie

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  • Dear Recovered, I find my experience of “patients” is that they, too, stubbornly cling to the idea that “Doctor knows best.” Patients are lazy. They often staunchly refuse to do their own research. They refuse to claim autonomy and self-expertise, often deferring to the doctor over and over, even to the point of doc-shopping out of desperation for this “help” that doesn’t exist.

    Recovery, to me, meant realizing there was no help. There is no help except the immense strength we each have within ourselves.

    Julie Greene

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  • Leah this is a very important post. My very first article I ever published in MIA I first pitched to a suicide survivors site. Sadly that site got taken over by the voices of “professionals” so they sure did not want my article. MIA did!

    I am going to be recommending this article in my radio show today, August 19, 2017. Tune in at noon. 323-443-7210 blog talk radio juliemadblogger show.

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  • Antidepressants, for the most part, had little “effect” on me so when I was asked to take them I did what I could to get the doc to understand that these pills were unhelpful.

    Prozac never had any helpful “effect.” I never noticed any difference. Benzos never did anything that I noticed, not to me, however, taking one as PRN pleased the staff, so I would do so periodically in order to silence “them” and keep them from needling me. Taking a PRN made the staff happy. So it had an “effect” on them!

    Antipsychotics didn’t “affect” my psychosis since I was not psychotic nor did it lower my mania since I was not manic to begin with. These drugs caused pacing. The shrinks mistook pacing for mania for decades, so usually my dose of antipsychotics was raised to the max and these idiots still couldn’t figure out why I paced.

    Some drugs caused binge eating, which for me is the worst nightmare ever. I don’t expect people here at MIA to “get””this since eating disorders are generally dismissed here the same way mine was in psychiatry for decades. I’m pissed about this and I wish I could teach a class in eating disorders here just to enlighten you all.

    Effexor caused binge eating, so I had to stop the drug. Also, several other drugs caused binge eating, several of the antipsychotics and antidepressants, including Zyprexa, high doses of Seroquel, and some of the older antidepressants, Nortryptyline notably. I can’t say these would do the same to others.

    The whole time, my doctors were dismissive and even jeered at me every time I brought up the problem. The best thing I ever did was to get away from psychiatry and all of mental health, and start my life over.

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  • I got rid of my TV over 20 years ago and have not watched it since. I developed a strong dislike for it, then a complete intolerance. I can’t believe people even sleep with the thing yapping away! I cannot tolerate much of radio, either. Computer is a good thing so long as I am typing. I cannot see the point in passively watchig youtubes. I credit “no TV’ as one reason why my mind is sharp, I have sharp hearing, am generally happy and am physically fit.

    Plus cable is a complete waste of hard-earned disability check, let’s face it. That’s ironic since the only reason I’m still on it is no one will hire me.

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  • Then those of us in a position to take action (and are not too preoccupied with bitching and moaning) should take action NOW. How about a protest? Or organizing outside the DA’s office? BTW PLEASE listen to my Blog Talk Radio Broadcast http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/08/15/reading-destructive-teen-relationships-michelle-carter-and-my-own-story because it is RELEVANT and I would speak out in court on Michelle’s behalf on just how powerful these friendships are, it is like the person has a spell over you.

    Julie

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  • Hi Frances, Sounds like the Prednisone may have done serious damage to you sleep-wise. I would stay on the drugs rather than not sleep. Stay on the lowest dose if you have to. If you have very bad damage sometime that’s the only thing that’ll get you to sleep. Not sleeping is very damaging to the body, more damaging that a tiny dose of pills. Take a subclinical dose. Or try, just enough to knock yourself out. You were on drugs a very long time, unlike these younger folks who can get off completely. Never mind not sleeping makes you grumpy, you drop stuff, you get lost, and you lose all your stuff and driving isn’t safe.

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  • Jolly Roger and anyone,

    I discourage bashing Dr. K simply because what I see here is bashing him because he has MD after his name. However, he is in support of the Movement and earnestly is here to help us out. Why do you put him down? I personally do not believe “all psychiatrists are evil.” I know some of you do. However, Dr. Breggin is not evil, right? Not all psychs are evil. They run on a continuum. I don’t think the statement “All psychs are evil” properly represents the thinking of mosts here, nor of most in the Movement. Most of us are capable of complex thinking. We don’t generalize nor make such broad and sweeping statements. Many of us would refuse, also, to “classify” humans as “good” or “evil.” Isn’t another “classification” completely against what we stand for? We don’t want more of a split society, that we saw on the wards. That Us and Them, we the inferiors, them the superiors and the split that was forever and ever. There are no Good and Evil people. Some shrinks are actually okay, and if you want a demonstration of OKAY, go see Breggin’s latest articles on Michelle Carter. Then, come back to me and say all psychs are Evil. Don’t ever tell me how to judge other humans, either. Psychs are humans, many, though, are following a corrupt practice. I don’t believe they are intrinsically Evil. To believe this would be to believe in the exact same eugenics that psychiatry teaches.

    Julie

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  • I have put a reading from my published memoir of my experience of a destructive teen friendship (like Michelle and Conrad’s) up on Blog Talk Radio.

    This show is a 90-minute reading I pre-recorded devoted to Michelle Carter which will go live tomorrow, August 15, 2017.

    Here is the URL of the show. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/08/15/reading-destructive-teen-relationships-michelle-carter-and-my-own-story

    I provided an introduction explaining what destructive teen relationships are. I don’t make assumptions about Michelle and Conrad. I only ask that the audience consider the POSSIBILITY that Michelle may very well have been cornered into doing what she did. She may have believed she had no choice.

    Julie Greene, another survivor of destructive teen relationship, 1971-75

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  • Dear Walter, I knew many who took them, may or may not have “felt better.” They are mostly dead now.

    I, as former patient, am happy not to have my head clouded nor too puffed up by an MD degree…..But saddened to lose so many to this obvious scam. This was not a “tradeoff” by any means. The price was too high to pay, for these unfortunate people taken too young, and for their families.

    Julie

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  • Ken, I can talk till I’m blue in the face but that won’t stop my friends/acquaintances from going to doctors to beg for pills. They still think that’s what doctors are for. I can argue and argue but it’s useless. I myself was not raised with this “take a pill” mentality. When I first came upon it I was shocked. “Why take pills?”

    A few years later it had rubbed off on me, though. I suffered from an eating disorder and no therapy ever helped in three decades. I found therapy imposing and abusive. I had over 20 of them. The decent ones didn’t stick around very long. Therapy sustained me in a disabled state, encouraging me to stay disabled. Sadly, in three decades they barely acknowledged I had an eating disorder even though I told them clearly!

    By 1982, which was early on, I had concluded that therapy wasn’t going to help, so I figured pills might. There was research stating that pills help binge eating. The research was on the antidepressant imipramine. The book is out of print but it was done by prominant researchers. This went on to prescribing SSRI’s, Topamax, and now, Vyvanse.

    Frankly, I think they’ll find Vyvanse as disappointing as the others, but let’s just say it’s pulling in a profit. My own experience is that ANY drug that reduces appetite in just the right way at just the right time will stop binge eating rather effectively, as will certain foods if eaten at the right time. You can also change up the order you eat your meals and this will do the trick, or, for some, eliminate or add certain food. Some find elimination of “trigger” foods helpful.

    I found that lithium worked. It is known to put on weight, but for me, it reduced my appetite just enough. I had no clue, at the time, exactly how it was “working,” but the “effects” were immediate, dramatic, and very noticeable. TO ME.

    However, because because binge eating is ALMOST ALWAYS done in secret, no one else noticed the difference. So the residential center I was staying at failed to validate that the Lithium had helped my ED.

    This is very sad.

    The last day of my lengthy stay there, in 1984, I met with the director. I told him, “I’m very happy. The lithium has obliterated my eating disorder, so now, I can go on with my life.”

    He said, “You never had an eating disorder. It must have been very minor or you were only imagining it.”

    I felt incredibly crushed. He was so wrong. After I left there, I was called schizophrenic because they assumed I had only invented my ED. It took three decades and nearly starving to death for the world of Mental Health to finally wake up.

    I got over my ED by leaving MH “help” far behind, by ditching all the lies they told me, by ending all supervision and doing it all myself, by getting rid of the diagnoses, and by living as a free, undiagnosed person. I would wish the same freedom for anyone.

    Julie

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  • Hi Everyone, Thanks again to Dr. Breggin for doing this wonderful work. My heart goes out to Michelle. I have felt a kinship to her since the case was first publicized. Here on my new radio station I read from my own published memoir about TEEN DESTRUCTIVE RELATIONSHIPS. I hope the story, which parallels Michelle’s story, is helpful in shedding some light on what MAY possibly have been going on between her and Conrad….

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/08/15/reading-destructive-teen-relationships-michelle-carter-and-my-own-story

    The show, which is pre-recorded, will go live Tuesday August 15 2017 and will be accessible thereafter in archives.

    Note: Statistics vary as to how common these relationships are. Back in the early 1970’s, as far as I could tell, relationships such as I was in were rare. I am lucky that I was able to leave the relationship and go on with my life.

    Love, Julie (and Puzzle)

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  • I suspect, Mr Fogel and anyone, that we all define “benefit from drugs” differently.

    For instance, I recall someone went to her doctor for drugs. He tried many. He was giving her drugs for depression and asked her if the drugs were “helping.” Finally, she told him that the third was best “because finally he ha given her something that helped her sleep.” This is an example of a short-term miscommunication with minimal harm, I hope.

    Define benefit. I asked for pills. I was given pills and asked if they were “helping.” I noticed Lithium helped with my eating disorder. I said, “Yes, it does.”

    They said, “Oh, so it helps with your bipolar.”
    I said, “No, I came with an eating disorder, not bipolar.”
    They said, “We don’t notice an eating disorder.”

    For 30 years, I judged “effective” by how well a treatment helped me with ED. THEY judged a treatment by how little I “complained” afterward. Much complaining got me a paranoia diagnosis., or an accusation of “whining.” Yes they didn’t help much at all.

    That I know of, patients define “it’s working” differently. Some even want a high.

    Julie

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  • I want to add that such Destructive Friendships, though uncommon, do happen occasionally during adolescents. Usually these are romantic partnerships or intense friendships.

    I have located a YouTube series about Destructive Relationships. Almost all of these were teens or junior high age kids. I, too, was involved in such a friendship. In my case, this was with another girl in high school These friendships are intense and often, others are unaware of what is happening. It appears to be “best friends.” Really, in my case, it was slavery. Literally.

    Please read my memoir, “This Hunger Is Secret,” which is available now completely free at my blog, http://www.juliemadblogger.com. Go to the sidebar. Here you will find my memoir, “This Hunger Is Secret” as .pdf. The memoir is not specifically about the friendship with my “best friend” in high school. However, within the book are sections describing what went on. Since the book is written in braided fashion this story is woven within the narrative, that is, the chapter about my high school experience is divided up into sections which you will need to piece together. It starts later in the book, not at the beginning.
    DR BREGGIN, IF YOU FIND IT USEFUL TO THE LEGAL CASE FOR MICHELLE CARTER, please feel free to use it. And tell the lawyers.

    This type of friendship is not common but does happen. Again, usually it is a romantic relationship. And often, it results in a destructive end. I was luckier than most.

    Julie Greene

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  • I don’t know why we are bashing Dr. K here. Many, in fact most have NO reaction to anti-d’s, certainly nothing positive EXCEPT the “I sure hope it’s working” effect that lasts about three weeks until the usual letdown. Some have horror story reactions to them. Many feel jittery and get off right away and try another one. Isn’t this what usually happens? Some become manic, right? But if 100% had horror story reactions, I doubt we’d have anyone out there singing the praises of Prozac and the like. I think Dr. K is right. Most do not react in any significant way except “I hope…” In fact, we don’t even hear those stories because the reaction is insignificant. It won’t make a big smashing horror story here on MIA, nor will it be written by NAMI-backed “Take your meds” story writers. These stories, the “Meh” stories aren’t going to even get written up. In fact, those of us whose reactions were “Meh” might not even recall trying the drugs, decades ago. The memories may be so insignificant that they have faded away by now.

    What was that drug?

    Think before you bash. He is right!

    Julie

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  • Thanks so much for this. Back around 1982 I started begging my doctors for drugs to help me with binge eating. Since therapy never worked I had begun to believe the binge eating was endogenous.

    It was! Only PLEASE hear me out. It was, for me, caused by the extreme dieting I had done back in 1980. Dieting was not a popular thing to do back then. It doesn’t take long before you get stuck in it. Crash dieting will set many people into a vicious cycle that is hard to stop. You get sucked into it and you get to the point, in fact rather quickly, where your body demands that you binge and/or starve yourself. It isn’t so easy to stop once you start and it isn’t some “underlying psychological problem” but the fact that you dieted, or didn’t eat right to begin with, or you didn’t have access to adequate food for your body.

    Is this a mental illness? No, but I had heard that these drugs stop binge eating so I begged for them, I would do anything to get it to stop. I was rather desperate, so I even “faked” various supposed MI’s of the day, since the doctors claimed eating disorders were petty.

    I must have done a damn good acting job all those decades till I escaped. However, all of life is a stage as far as I know. My suggestion is that you all’s left playing the nut roles quit them ASAP, or get yourselves fired. And Live your Lives. Because it’s more fun that way.

    Love, Julie and Puzzle

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  • I’d just like folks who are subscribed to this thread to know that I am launching a radio show on Blog Talk Radio this coming Monday, August 14, 2017, topic: Psychiatric Diagnosis. Pros and Cons. I am inviting anyone who sees this to call in and discuss the topic for 30 minutes. I will upgrade the station when we get listenership and an enthusiastic following.

    Call this number: (323) 443-7210 Press 1 or *1 to speak live to the host (me).

    http://blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger at 3pm New York time.

    Please join in the discussion! Psych diagnosis! Monday th 14th of August 2017 at 3pm New York time. This is a live radio discussion.

    Julie

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  • Hey everyone! Call in show, Blog Talk Radio

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/08/14/pros-and-cons-of-psychiatric-diagnosis

    Call in! Monday August 14th 2017 at 3pm, Eastern Daylight Time , this is same as NEW YORK, (which is currently -4:00 as Daylight Time (summer), usually -5:00 in winter time).

    Pros and Cons of Psychiatric Diagnosis

    (323) 443-7210 This is only a half hour show until we get the ball rolling. Topics will vary.

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  • Dear Dr. Breggin,

    How can I help out? Please get me in touch with Michelle and/or her family. I so much relate to her story.

    I can say that in the 34 years that I was a mental patient I wasn’t often suicidal but one time I was, It was 2012. it was during or following weight gain. I was underweight but was forced to gain via “treatment” and then just couldn’t stop bingeing. I hated my body, hated myself, refused in every way to leave the house except to walk the dog wrapped in the bulkiest coat I could find so that I could hide myself. It was an awful time. Summer came. I couldn’t take off that winter coat. I finally decided the only workable solution was to kill myself. I’m lucky my “plans” never panned out, and none of that ended up on my medical record.

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  • I would also disagree with Jolly, but not for Seth’s reason. I don’t think all psych fields are based on stupidity.

    IF the field is based on putting people in categories, that is, based on What Is Wrong With You I Will Fix You! Then it very well may be edging on eugenics, since separating helpers from helpees is suggesting a tiered society. Once you start the separation, that is, the Division of Labor, it is tough to break that mentality.

    However, not all of psych is based on I AM The Great Helper Who Is Superior And Will Cure the Ailing Helpee. A handful refuse to use diagnosis and do not base their work on stating that anything is “wrong” with the person/people they are working with.

    I have met a few who claim to be “alternative.” All I can say is….There’s alternative, and there are outright quacks out there…,,,,,,,,, YOU CHOOSE. And it’s okay to say NO THANKS.

    I personally got better because I realized that going to any sort of shrink, healer, doctor, etc, was verifying the disease state and sustaining me as an ill, disabled person. I realized it just didn’t have to be that way. Thus ended 34 years of “mental illness.” Which had little do do with drugs. it was all about brainwashing. I left all that behind, and i believe others can benefit from recognizing the depth of the brainwashing done to them, too.

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  • Thanks, Susan. I want to say that I was a guinea pig for “residents” at McLean. They were kids and they got to toss me around like a plaything for a few years. Well, now they are grown up, mostly rich I suppose. I should have been paid handsomely for being their stepping stone.

    All the while I kept a journal. Those residents scoffed at me as if my writing were child’s play.

    Dear Residents, Here’s what Anne Lamott has to say, “You own everything that happened to you. Tell your stories. If people wanted you to write warmly about them, they should have behaved better.” –from Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life

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  • Dear Diary, (30 years ago when I was 29) I feel great on this drug called Lithium. It is helping me so much with my eating disorder. I heard something today from another patient about it causing kidney problems later in life. I wonder if that’s true. I never heard that from the doctor, so probably it’s a very rare side effect. Funny how thirsty I feel. I wonder if J’s worries about kidneys were part of his mental illness. He keeps talking about the harms that these medications can cause. I guess he has a lot of problems….

    I seem to sunburn a lot from the other pills. They said I could get Tardive Dyskensia, but not till I’m in my 50’s, so not to worry. I’m not worried, I’m only in my 20’s now, i’m only concerned with how I feel now. Why worry about what happens when I’m an old lady? I’ll never get to be THAT old. Gee, that’s way too far away to worry about.

    Today I filled out a survey they gave us. I put 100% for all of my pills. I wonder what J put. Boy does he have serious problems……I’d better get something for this sunburn, geez…

    Love, Julie

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  • Walter K, My observation of patients, over 34 years, as fellow patient, is that they get better on their own, yes. I have seen it with my own eyes. If you observe, people do.

    Any form of “treatment” sustains the belief that there is an “illness.” Therefore, “treatment” sustains and prolongs any “illness” state there is, causing more illness and ultimately, early death.

    I don’t know about anyone else out there but to me it’s just plain ole common sense. Which we as a species should use more often.

    Julie

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  • Thanks, Bob, There is so much corruption going on behind the curtain at the uppermost levels. I am surprised Lieberman is still alive.

    I have tried to get a grasp on the dopamine super-sensitivity thing. Does anyone out there know if this is what causes our permanent, hellish insomnia that plagues so many of us, on or off drugs, in our later years? This is totally separate from apnea, which seems to be a separate issue though overdiagnosed for sure. I for one cannot sleep at all without chemicals. and this seems to be permanent damage.

    Or, is it that epigentic methylation thing? Does anyone out there have an actual cure? Even the supposed cure my naturopath suggested doesn’t really work. Anyone out there please contact me if you have any answers, many are desperate……..

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  • Dr. Breggin I am from Massachusetts and I had an ED 34 years. As soon as I read this my heart went out to this girl. I feared that starvation or some other consequence, combined with drug effects may have played a part. She could have been dehydrated or her electrolytes could have been off, or she could have been right in the middle of a binge, which hardly anyone understands. And the drugs are unpredictable if a person is starving and adolescent.

    I cried when I read the story. I am so moved that you helped her out. She was only 17. I have blogged extensively about this case in my blog.

    Since when will putting her in prison do anything to help bring Conrad Roy back? Will it help society? Is she THAT dangerous? Or dangerous at all? I don’t think putting her in prison is the right thing. It helps no one and it only increases society’s ignorance. Imprisonment preys on our fears.

    Is there any way I can help? Can I get in touch with her?

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  • Henry, I am a survivor of a brainwashing religious cult. I was brainwashed by the Moonies in 1979. They don’t use drugs. They use deceptive recruiting tactics, LOVE, and also, a lot of truth. They mix in a few lies, but who is going to notice if they are oh so kind? I managed to walk away from the Moonies after ten days. Yet the brainwashing done by therapy and it’s cohort, drugs, kept me convinced I had a “mental illness” for over three decades. Yes it’s painful to leave. The grieving of changing beliefs after three decades is unbelievable. Some do not get over it, sorry to say, just like many never get over leaving a cult. They commit suicide, or are so angry they are stuck in misery. I can say, though, with confidence that time can and does heal the grieving, much like time heals most any grief. It’s important not to re-label our grieving, which will only delay and prolong the process, even turn it into yet one more supposed “mental illness.” It’s so tempting to return to the cult, too. But don’t go back. Allow time to do its work.

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  • Henry I do not know a darned thing about AIDS nor do I have it so I won’t get into that debate. However, I agree and we need to listen carefully here. Guilt by Association.

    Many of us make claims that others find dubious. We may be correct about some claims and others, we may not be. Some may still be unprovable according to any scientific means and yet unexplored by any research thus far.

    Then along comes research. We may change our minds, or not. I believed, until recently, that I had a mental illness. I would defend that mental illness vehemently. I now do not believe this. I changed my mind. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do.

    Does this past statement, “I am mentally ill,” discredit me? Should I go back and change my past statements? I do not change them because I want to illustrate to others the changes that a person goes through, that belief and growth is a transformation, which is truly what learning is. It’s why we are human, we grow and change in time.

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  • I would like to know if they took incarceration into account. Incarceration could tip the scales one way or the other. If the patients are drugged the nurses might treat the patient differently. The drugs are clearly in the patient’s system and this is clear to nurses when the pt drools or paces or twitches. The patient isn’t going to do these from a placebo unless he’s copying other patients while incarcerated, perhaps just to feign being drugged so he’ll get out faster. Which is another factor. Drug response gets you out.

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  • Henry, a former friend of min e summed up the pro psych camp succinctly. I asked her why she never read the links and materials I sent her, while I, in turn, continued to remain a devoted friend and consistently read her emails to the end and clicked on any link she sent, thinking this is how friends support friends, isn’t it?

    She replied, “Oh no, if it’s about human rights, I refuse to read it.”

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  • Just this morning I was joking to myself that we should be paid minimum wage for waiting room time that we spent waiting for late doctors. For time waiting in ER’s, that should be $50 an hour, for time waiting in psych holds, that should be more like $300 an hour, and for time in restraints, well, you can’t even pay that much. Any time on wards or in commitment, unfathomable money. We should be overrun with dough for the time we spent. Retirement is overdue at this point.

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  • Dee, I think it is epigenetics, methylation of genes that causes the insomnia. So many drugs do this and I am not sure if there is a fix except reinstating and then, slowly coming off, or for us older folks, staying on a very low dose just to get some sleep. I have been phoning sleep clinics at random in the USA to see if they have any knowledge of epigenetics. So far, they seem to shove it under the rug and deliberately do anything they can to diagnose with sleep apnea. In fact, these clinics look scary slick to me, reeking of scam especially since insurance pays for the equipment. I think pharm is behind the denial of the methyalation and epigetics. Yet it is clearly in the literature. (Apologies for spelling errors I am losing my vision.)

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  • John just about anything can be a poison, for instance, iron supplements if given in too high a dose. When you consider lithium 300, the starting dose, that is like supplementing with an insane amount of lithium that no nutritionist would ever consider safe to give.

    Then consider the others. Would a nutritionist ever give a vitamin that made a person twitch and call that healing? I doubt it. Twitching would be seen as a sign of vitamin toxicity I’d imagine yet when it’s pharm, it’s a “side effect,” an “acceptable trade-off,” or even sometimes called “responding to the medication.” Down the line, if we die too young, who is going to care anymore, or even notice? By then, they’ve upped our diagnoses to something more “severe.” It was the illness. “Oh, isn’t mental illness a terrible thing. Oh dear, it was the stigma that killed him, wasn’t it? Died in his sleep.” And the doc has left for New Zealand on a cruise.

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  • Look at who this “tiny percentage” of violent are. Look at how we treat the “tiny percentage.” What is it that we do? Well? We may allow them out, now and then, but with obvious caution, one hand clearly on the Panic Button, and we make that Loud and Clear and Insulting enough. We put up very clear signs, You Can’t Bring Weapons Here, and, We Really Expect Violent Behavior From You. So what are we expecting? Violent behavior. Why not stop the expectations…which really come from diagnosis. The diagnosis called Criminal Record. The diagnosis called You were in a mental Prison once. The diagnosis called You Grew Up Poor. The Diagnosis Called All Foster Kids End Up Drug Addicts. We need to end that. End the barriers and even if the “background check” is done (since policy seems to require it), disregard it, let people in. Let folks in who are willing to work, who are wanting jobs, who are probably going to be great tenants, who are honest, who are talented, who mean no harm. Let’s disregard those marks that were in the past. The past is the past. The future should mean OPPORTUNITY, opportunity for all human beings. No more lockup, that is going to be past tense. My plan is to get as many employers, taxpayers, landlords, educational institutions, anyone who agrees to sign on. No more locked doors. And this will spread like a stone dropped in water.

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  • I’ve been trying to get some rapport with certain legislators by contacting them. I try to limit frequency to increase my impact. Or hoping to do so. I figure whatever I send should be no more than a short paragraph, maybe two. That’s it. And not a form letter. How many times can you read the same ole? Another thing I have done (that really works) is either tear at their heartstrings or even crack a joke. Or wish them a nice day.

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  • I’m wondering about the one honest one that did respond and what the response was. What type of practitioner was this (social worker, psychiatrist, etc…) how long working in the field, and did that person have any suicides to report?

    A friend of mine was on a ward where there was a suicide right on the ward. There was an investigation afterward and other patients were questioned. I’m sure the story the investigators heard from fellow patients was much different from the lies told by “staff.”

    As I see it, I can’t understand why a suicide is EVER called “no foul play” as it always involves “foul play.”

    I have seen wrongful deaths also, people whose very serious physical complaints went unheard.

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  • this is my theory of psychiatry and most of medicine:

    1. The doctor and medical institution does whatever is in their best interest financially, including diagnosing the patient.
    2. In the process, the goal is to maintain as many patients on the patient roster as possible, “keeping the numbers up” rather than curing inductees.
    3. In the process, patients may be harmed by the procedures or “treatments.”
    4. After medical harm, re-diagnosis to a more complex or more severe diagnosis, or add a diagnosis, and send patient to a higher level of “care” or more intensive or restrictive “care.” This may harm further. Repeat.
    5. In the event of inevitable patient death, blame the patient’s condition, which you have already given to cover your ass.

    Very scientific.

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  • JanCarol, Even now, many who are still devotees of the Mental System tell me pimples are horrible and should be medicated, as should cramps, headaches, sore throats, etc. They also ask me how on earth I can live without a doctor. I’ve had one of them ask me how I cope if I “scrape” myself. I gotta laugh. I admit, back in my slave days I really did call the doc every time I fell down and “scraped” myself.
    If you fall down, you got two choices.

    Door#1: You can lie there in the road and call you doctor, and stay lying there, waiting for him/her to return your call, but in the meanwhile, the cops might pick you up and take you to the nuthouse.

    Door #2: Get up.

    We do have choices. And life isn’t always easy, nor perfect, nor nice. People are generally uncaring. The weather sucks sometimes. And that’s the way it is. Tomorrow, it might be better.

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  • Yes there is a connection between psych drugs and fractures also. Risperdal causes raised prolactin which ends up lowering estrogen. So that’s another one for your physical therapist. And I broke my leg due to Risperdal. I also had a sprain from Trileptal. This is due to a common side effect (this I blogged about in 2011) which is ankle and wrist weakening. It’s called Ataxia. This is one of the most common side effects. Many drugs cause ataxia and it’ll make you sway on your feet and make you seem to have lousy balance and you might fall. Of course my shrink denied it. This is what your phys therapist is seeing. No surprise there. Double vision? That too. Seizures. Yep. Oh wait, let’s not forget enlarged heart chambers, unwanted weight gain and early death. What do you get when you go to a shrink?

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  • We’re talking about two separate conditions here. Yes the CPAP has to be continued once it is started. Glasses actually may not. Later in life some people find their eyes improve. Or they get contacts. Going without them is a nuisance, but I’m not going to choke, lose oxygen, or have a stroke. I usually paw around and try to find where I put them!!

    As for the sleep issues, these are two separate issues, drug damage is just not the same although you can have apnea but drug damage isn’t apnea. These are like apples and oranges. I’ve concluded that if you were on a gigantic cocktail and don’t have any evidence whatsoever of apnea it’s going to be a huge waste to go to a sleep clinic. i have phoned them, many, in several states. They set you up with a LUNG doctor, not a sleep specialist. They want to rule out apnea. And during the very first sleep study they even put a mask on you. And if you tell them you can’t sleep they give you drugs to make you sleep. So if you stop breathing ON DRUGS they claim you have apnea. This is their logic, their criteria. I couldn’t find ONE that set you up with a sleep specialist right off the bat except the local psych hospital. I’m not going there, of course. No psych.

    My next course of action is to call a sleep center (no where near where I live) at random, and ask about a sleep study for DRUG DAMAGE (I will say it’s a friend) ans see if they’ve even heard of it. Is this really that hidden from the public if this many are affected? Dear FDA….Who is responsible? The drug companies or the irresponsible prescribers who put us on cocktails years ago? Where do we go with this? The media?

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  • I never once said to stop using the machine, JanCarol. In fact, what I did say was that the machine is addictive and once you start it you have to stay on it. I’m very aware of this. I never would tell a person to stop using it, nor did I say that, nor did I tell your friend to stop, nor am I responsible for your friend’s death. I know in my heart that it is overdiagnosed, that many of us are drug damaged and do not have need for a machine, nor have breathing problems and we’re on this site due to damage from chemicals, not from breathing problems, though of course crossover is possible. Again, not once did I encourage anyone to stop using the machine. I just said apnea is overdiagnosed. There is a difference. Don’t blame ME for your friend’s death. I’m sorry it happened but please don’t take it out on me. I didn’t cause it.

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  • We have a forum going for those who do NOT have sleep apnea (it’s really obvious you guys) and whose sleep problems are definitely from drug damage. Go to the forums and then, go to psychiatric drugs. We have a long thread under Zyprexa but some of us took other cocktail shit. Also I am making a wordpress site for it, just to see how many exactly there are. I suspect thousands, but out of those, very few dare to admit it, or are even able to. I suspect of those affected, many have already committed suicide. So many people simply see no way out.

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  • Hey Frank, I’m all for refusing all mental health “treatment.” Which road is that?

    Because I refuse it, I am recovered from it. Because I got away from others who refused to see me as anything but mentally ill, I am recovered from being seen as mentally ill.

    It was a very very bad idea. The wrong road. I got off of it. I live a full and happy life now, not depending on anyone, nor needy, nor suffering, nor depressed. I actually have a career, too. Because I left the psychs far behind.

    Personal is political. Live well. Set a good example, ya’alls.

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  • May I point out that we’ve been making these efforts as patient whistleblowers for years already? I did it myself. I confronted the prescribers and asked why every single patient on the ward was being given the same drug. Or was on the same meal plan. Or had the same diagnosis. Or was told the same lies. Or had the same treatment plan. I know nurses and others who confronted management likewise.

    The workers were usually fired, or worse. Patients were silenced, drugged, incarcerated, discredited, dead. Or disgusted with the movement for one reason or another.

    Patient whistleblowers are expendable, they kill us all the time. As I figure I’ll be found dead someday, too. Life is short, Well, there are risks we take, right?

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  • Oldhead at the time I was brainwashed and as expected I confused the message with a “stigma” campaign and didn’t quite understand what she was saying. I thought it was a push for better treatment or more treatment. Or a good doc vs bad doc message. My approach then was kinda juvenile, the usual way a mental patient is taught to think.

    I notice those that are new to the system tend to believe there are actually “good doctors” out there and their goal is to stick around and find one. So they keep on dismissing the bad ones, telling themselves they hope to find “better docs.” Of course, the harm’s been done. They’ve been brainwashed into thinking they NEED a doc and can’t live without one. This is the basic lie. This is the invisible disease no one even notices.

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  • Hi Kindred, check out my review of my former psychiatrist that I just put up…
    https://www.yelp.com/biz/kimberly-pearson-md-belmont
    I get good ratings on Yelp because I write rather specific details on my experiences and I am honest. It pays to have MFA-level training in memoir. My shrinks didn’t want me to get my degree. I now know all too well why. They wanted me to drop out of college and go to day treatment instead. I disobeyed and they were pissed. ha ha ha ha……

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  • Frank I am trying something similar. My approach is as follows: People coming out of prison can’t get hired. People coming out of nuthouses can’t get hired. Neither are welcome in society most anywhere, we can’t get housing either. My idea is to bust this down, to break down barriers and to empower, and end that we’re somehow inferior or “marked” for life. I also want to end the sex criminal list, which is totally illogical, helps no one, and really ruins their lives, promotes fear, and only a tiny fraction of violators get tried and nailed. They can’t get hired, either. So that’s what I want to start. I wrote to a local organization telling them to take down the sign up front saying “no weapons” since if you expect violence that is what you’ll get. No barriers. No walls. No more locks. No security. No cops. Take the hand off the panic button because we can see you. So that is the kind of thing I am aiming for.

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  • Don’t get me started on medical harm. I have seen with my own eyes two hospital roommates die at their hands. I saw a guy admitted to psych from the ER and while they were doing the psych intake he dropped dead. The psych staff said, “he was a regular.” Well that was why. The ER profiled him upon arrival instead of treating his cardiac issues, which likely he had come in complaining about. Saw it all with my own eyes, heard them lie, too. And what lies did they tell the family? 2011. I saw them panic, too. Hurrying to cover it all up.

    I was on an eating disorders floor where the drug of the day was Zyprexa so I confronted the head nurse since she felt like talking to me. I asked her why they were lyiing to patients and telling them Z was a sleeping pill. She said “Who cares? It makes them gain weight. Don’t the ends justify the means?”

    I saw the dollar signs everywhere.

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  • Frances I didn’t even know drug-induced insomnia was lawsuit material. I had it too. Five years of no sleep. I didn’t go to a sleep clinic but I used sleep trackers that indicated I was only getting into a hypnotic state and was not getting any REM nor deep sleep. Naturally I was exhausted beyond belief, a total bitch, and feared my organs would collapse. Finally, without seeing any doctor at all, due to my fear of getting labeled again, I managed to get substances to help me sleep, very small quantity, which is key. I tapered off, very slowly, and now do okay on aryuvedic herbs. It was hell on earth. Constant exhaustion. I look back and realize people commit suicide due to exhaustion like that. I didn’t. I lived. And equally hell was that my psychiatrist who had caused it claimed it was due to mania. Her claim was so illogical. Then she claimed I was “mixed.” Anything but taking the blame. Actually, I want an apology more than I want to sue.

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  • I was told by an orthopedist that I would not walk nor run again. This after he xrayed one knee and that supposedly “proved” it to me. I didn’t see anything wrong in this xray. The bones were not making contact. The idiot didn’t even look at the other knee, the one that worked fine. Apparently the bones were too close together, he claimed, I think they’re the same in both knees. Maybe he’d never examined a short person before. Thankfully, I did not take him seriously. I know people who think these medical people are gods on high and would spend the rest of their lives in wheelchairs just cuz THEY say so. Or….maybe they want to be DIS abled and need a doc’s note…… Geez I did not want that and still run 5k. I’m 59. Run away from these a$$holes.

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  • Bonnie, I usually ask therapists, “How sliding is your scale?” and they tell me sixty dollars!!!! Sixty! This is well over what a person on so-called “disability” can afford. Or anyone earning minimum wage. I remember ages ago (1981) I paid five dollars. Sixty is insane for something that isn’t a life necessity such as food or a roof over one’s head. And they charge sixty for group therapy, too. That’s the sliding rate. i don’t care how feminist they are, that is just a marketing ploy, I will not pay that. You want advice, ask your friends. Do an online search. Don’t pay for it, because paid friends is prostitution.

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  • Yes because we suddenly have a tiered society. Patients and staff. Us and Them. That was never there before. This is a fallacy that is actually hard to get out of one’s head once it’s there.

    I know patients, and even ex ones, insist that “professionals” are experts. I have worked with them and I try so hard to break down this myth. No you don’t have to consult a doctor to make life decisions. No you don’t have to ask a therapist. No they aren’t experts. No you don’t have to see one to straighten yourself out. They aren’t the experts on this thing called life. However, the myth is so pervasive that it’s nearly impossible to stop it. “The hospital will save me, they are the only ones….I have to call a doc, I feel anxious…..I have withdrawal, I need an doc for the brain zaps…..” They aren’t gods nor saviors but that’s hard to get out of people’s heads once it’s in there.

    Maybe the question to ask is the following: What field exactly are the experts in? Probably corruption, lying, deception, and coverup, but anyway……

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  • Bonnie I am not alone and that is what “therapy” is. Guesswork. Easy moneymaker, if you want to do it. Charge a fee to look legit, keep the patient sick, needy and dependent for as long as possible by adding diseases. If you’ve damaged the patient, change the diagnosis and blame the patient for the damages, and then, incarcerate to keep the patient silent to avoid a malpractice suit. Wow what a perfect formula to hide that this is a scam.

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  • Thanks, Bonnie. This is very helpful for my own research. May I point out the Castlewood eating disorders center? This apparently was run by “therapists” who were accused of putting false memories in patients heads, ritualistic abuse. I’m not sure how this all panned out. I know there were lawsuits and the “therapists” were minimally punished.

    I was also subject to this, in a much subtler way. So I know they tend to strongly suggest IT MUST BE YOUR PARENTS and assume assume assume! My poor parents! The assumptions were so rude! Like assuming my mom was “enmeshed” cuz that’s what the textbook said! Then they said my mom was “distant.” Then they said my parents were “demanding.” Jeepers does it ever end!!!! Shove it in my face, won’t you? Over the years I heard horrific stories of abuse from other patients, even from therapists who had boundary problems, and I saw it and heard it with my own eyes and ears, so I know what real abuse is. My parents did not fit into that category AT ALL. For whatever reason, therapists assume you had bad parents, and they can’t seem to accept that maybe you didn’t.

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  • I’m guessing the reason why you feel suicidal is because no one is there, right? Isolation happens because of psych care, not because of any negative quality you have. It’s because you went to them and they gave you a phony diagnosis. It is due to what THEY did, not because of what you did. So you need to stop believing the diagnosis, and live your life as YOU. Because you are that person who is autonomous who does not need them, who lived a beautiful life without them and can do this again. Because you deserve a mate, and because someone out there will truly benefit from knowing you, and because you have much to give. Go find people and show them you are an awesome person who isn’t a label.

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  • I haven’t read the comments here as there are just too many! Michael, the question of intelligence in the profession amuses me and brings back memories of discussions I had with my parents way back when. I come from a well-educated family and (I am ALWAYS very embarrassed to admit this) we are all highly intelligent, whatever the heck that means. My dad went to Johns Hopkins and I remember being a music/math nerd.

    When I took myself to therapy, and eventually, psychiatry, I then introduced my parents to my therapists via family therapy, and finally I got on pills, my choice, and we had to meet the psych. I was so embarrassed to introduce my parents to these idiots.

    I had been so proud, way back, to introduce them to faculty members at my college. This had certainly not been embarrassing at the faculty weren’t stupid! I recall, in a family session, a therapist was clueless about Jewish culture and traditions, mispronounced a Jewish holiday, and worse.

    My dad noted that one of my shrinks was just plain thickheaded, had no common sense, and had warped logic. They didn’t get a logical explanation from him as to why I had “schizophrenia” as I never had it!

    Years later, my dad tried to point out that maybe I was depressed because I was locked up, but the shrinks wouldn’t hear any of it. My dad was a scientist, an electronics engineer and I can see why his company, Raytheon, hired him, promoted him, and eventually paid to help him get a second master’s degree later in life.

    My dad believed in human rights and told me I should, too. He told me I should read Judi Chamberlin’s book, told me it was very important. He told me I was much smarter than the doctors. Before he died he told me I’d outsmart them someday. He said I’d make it, too. He died in 1997.

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  • MY BOYFRIEND DIED in 2003 AND HE WAS ON THIS DRUG. Sorry for the caps but I have known (and have written about it) deep in my heart that the drug did much of the damage. We’d been dating 17 years when he died.

    They couldn’t court-order him in MA, but they did it anyway via guardianship. His family got around the court-appointed guardian bit, but unfortunately he was put on the Clozaril at McLean. I hold myself fully responsible for supporting the idea of the Clozaril as well. I had been on it, too, as a Clozaril guinea pig, years previously.

    His time in the hospital in 1998 was just awful, many human rights violations. I was going to school at the time, a fiction class. I went to see him daily when he was there. The hospital should be ashamed of the disrespectful and outright cruel way they treated him. I hope McLean is reading this right now. I heard the stuff they said, too, when I went to visit….

    Anyway, he got out, got out of the halfway house too. He was still on Clozaril. That and Trilafon and Prozac from my recollection. It was August. We had tickets for the game, the Lowell Spinners where we often went. Two days before, on a Tuesday afternoon he collapsed in his own elevator and died. They said it was around 4:30 and I am guessing he was headed out to buy cigarettes.

    The drugs are responsible for making it impossible for him to quit smoking. Lithium, which he had taken in his 30’s was responsible for diabetes insipidus, and I don’t think he was even aware he had it. I remember when he first got on Clozaril he was vomiting a lot. He threw up right outside De Marneff. Served those assholes right. Then they put him on some purple pill. That and Ditropan. We used to joke about the cup of coffee ending up in his lap (the dropsies) and fishing for words. Not actually all that funny, but we had to make the best of things.

    I didn’t expect him to die. I never knew if he saw it coming. I tried to think back and remember. But I just don’t know. I loved him so much.

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  • Bonnie I really think we need to address incarceration, period. How on earth did prison did get reworded as “hospital” and why did the public blindly accept this? It’s easy for me, having been incarcerated over 50 times, to understand how even the most intelligent and insightful of patients can be brainwashed to believe it all. Most are totally convinced but a few are not, and those are the lucky ones! Anyway, the public, too, is totally duped. The elephant in the room is so big, it cannot be seen. We, with all knowledge, theories, and arguments, tend to make this all too complicated and analyze it to death. But it’s so simple. NO ONE SHOULD BE LOCKED UP. And that’s it.

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  • Exactly. And keep telling the stories. I just posted one more Yelp review!!! Since when is psycho-drama “therapeutic” when the “therapist” abuses in a narcissistic and controlling manner?

    I notice the only thing “they” can do is to bribe sucker patients into writing nice reviews to get their star ratings up. However, Yelp is very fond of me. I write engaging stories. And I love doing it. It’s like getting published for free! Yet one more way to get your voice heard, folks……

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  • Bonnie, thanks for bringing this to our attention. To me, the victory seems bittersweet because, as you say, these atrocities shouldn’t happen in the first place. I’m wondering what each of us, as educated and aware individuals, to find these sadistic psychiatrists and therapists and stop abuse before it happens (or reoccurs).

    One way, as I see it, is to report abuse. We need to get victim’s voices heard. Lauren Tenney does a great job of this in her radio shows, allowing victims to call in. She also has a call-in number where you can report abuse.

    I don’t know about Canadian laws, but in the USA there are mandatory reporting laws. I know when I was being abused on a medical floor, I let every single person know who would listen. Every doctor who came, any nurse or anyone who wore a uniform. Of these, one or two of the nurses, one of the 1:1 people, the student nutritionist, and even the phlebotomy teacher and a few of her students believed my story. I ask myself today why they thought they didn’t have to report abuse. Another person who arrived at my bedside was a patient satisfaction person. I told her everything and begged her to report this abuse to her supervisor. She gave me a blank stare and said, “It’s my last day and I’m leaving.” Aren’t these folks trained in mandatory reporting, and bound by law to tell the authorities? A state legislator said my situation was so illegal I could have phoned the police.

    Another thing we ourselves can do is to scour the studies for anything coming out in “their” literature about great new therapies. Dishonest people expose themselves all the time since lying isn’t as easy as telling the truth. We need to spot the use of euphemisms, vague language, overblown recovery rates, and misuse of statistics. If we hear anecdotal evidence (stories) about harm coming from such great therapies, these need to be taken seriously.

    We need to make it easier for victims to come forward and protect them if they do. Victims who are particularly vocal (writers, journalists) are a threat to “them” and retaliation for the purpose of silencing or discrediting will go wall beyond what is legal. Many of us have been killed, subject to anonymous (hired?) bullying, tortured to the point of suicide, drugged, repsychiatrized, or incarcerated. Spouses and kids are not spared.

    I encourage MIA (editors, please note) to publish more patient stories, and fewer statistical babble from so-called “professionals.” I am so sick of hearing story after story about the “great new therapy” because if it’s more duplication of psych, or psych by another name, it’s bullshit.

    I don’t think anyone really knows unless they’ve been through the horrors. So-called “professionals,” if they really want to dismantle the system…I challenge you: Why are you still practicing (“therapy” included)? If you are truly anti-psych, don’t practice what you know is torture! Please report abuse, listen to survivors (because we should be the ones talking here!) and encourage other so-called professionals to report also.

    These torture operations need to end. We victims need to get our voices out there.

    If you see something, SAY SOMETHING!

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  • Oh my god, me too! I was a member of a group of women (I actually started the group) and their thing was “we gained weight from meds.” So the whole thing was about losing the weight we had gained. I’d say this was around 2006 that we started.

    So this was a tight group of women. They kicked me out one day. Of course, what was happening was that I was “questioning.” Questioning everything, all the decades of lies.

    Questioning will lead to bullying, and I mean on both ends. I got it from my pals first, they kicked me out and started posting horrible stuff about me. Then, I ended up with a new therapist who was narcissistic in her ways of doing therapy. So I was really in a rough spot then.

    Sadly, these exfriends made up their minds I was borderline. I saw they posted this on there, saying I should be put away and that my dog should be taken from me because I was incompetent and dangerous. Oh, they went on and on and I hated reading it but kept reading. My exfriend denied the borderline bit but she was the one who wrote it. She also called the cops on me. It was actually swatting! Unnecessary police call.

    So anyway, yeah, it’s a wake-up call all right!!!!! You become the instant bad guy!!! Oh well……..I think the experience is so common we might as well say it’s almost universal. Leave the cult and they claim you’ve married the Devil. You’re possessed….contaminated.

    I have trauma reaction from it, too. I’ll never forget the day one person posted that I was “no longer human.” I copied the post, all their hateful words, and kept it all.

    Julie

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  • I would agree. When I was in the questioning phase (questioning psychiatry) I went through a lot of grieving. Those who used to talk to me just plain stopped (out of reasons you state above) and that left me with two years of no spoken conversation in my life. I feel very fortunate that this period ended. Becoming an activist was what did it for me. I have real friends now, supportive people in my life. Not just people who push others away assuming all sorts of bogus diagnoses.

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  • I think things have changed since Judi’s time. Those I would call anti-psych are either survivors, ex-providers, or providers-turned-patients and either way, we all got utterly disgusted. Sometimes patients become providers but they are USUALLY not abolitioninsts, since look who pays them! Or it’s tough road to be on due to the irony they must have to face daily.

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  • I love that, Bonnie. What is a democratic psychiatry? Or how can we get there? I don’t think any democracy can come out of locking people up, taking away their rights and using coercion, deceiving them, doing tortures such as electroshock, and shooting them up with dangerous drugs. I thought democracy was participatory where all people had rights to the decision-making process. I would say psych is anti-democracy, the pinnacle of it.

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  • There are those out there that only want “better care.” They don’t realize that the entire “help” concept is wrong. I used to think the exact same thing. All I needed was a “better doctor.”

    I didn’t realize that doctor-dependency keeps many people sick and perpetuates the cult of neediness, the “help” mentality!

    All I can say is that I would wish for anyone Freedom from Doctors. It’s better than anything having my life back from slavery.

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  • I love this discussion! I appreciate what you are saying, Frank that we must be realistic here. If we are going to dismantle something we know is wrong, but we’re up against what looks like an impossible goal, maybe it needs to be done incrementally.

    I also think strengthening communities and family will mean going to a psychiatrist is unnecessary. I think we need to make bit-by-bit changes in our communities, end labeling, be more open to discussion of what are now taboo topics, tell our stories any way we can, and encourage community activism based on embracing all humans.

    Many are already skeptical of the DSM. This runs across the board economically and across many disciplines. People working in in other fields. such as IT, the arts, other sciences, and legal fields to name a few are well aware of the harms caused by diagnosis (diagnonsense) alone.

    Julie

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  • You have to remember that back in the day, psychiatry wasn’t the same as it is now. Now it’s all the drugs. But even back then, incarceration was the main thing they did to known nutcases, and they still do. So psychiatrists put people iin nuthouses, mainly, and did “treatment” on the prisoners. i think we agree, do we not, that locking up people and doing “treatments” on them that largely are unsuccessful, if not, disasters, for sure needs to be abolished. Wish I could do it in an instant.

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  • the accusations of being a Scientologist just have to be met with denial and a statement that we aren’t aligned with them. Yes, doesn’t look great on a resume, but a lot of groups hate psych and aren’t aligned with our goals.

    As I see it, psych is a cult, as is sci. So there are groups out there that use coercion, isolation, etc, and what I see is that people run from one cult right into the hands of another.

    Just lilke people go from one doctor to another, thinking they need a new doc. No, you need NO DOC. That’s how to not be sick.

    Run to freedom!

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  • If the FDA can be convinced to make psych drugs, or most of them, unavailable because of the dangers and multiple lawsuits, the drugs will be sold as street drugs. Buying street drugs is far safer than going to a psychiatrist, anyway.

    I notice most “therapists” can’t seem to commit to abolition since clearly they still want to control people and run their lives. Dear Therapists, get off your high horses and just give up the fight. You DON”T know better!

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  • Bonnie my original thing was that I noticed inhumane treatment in eating disorders. Immediately, just for pointing it out, kids (mostly) in ED treatment spoke out against me claiming I was “Pro Ana” or “Against Recovery.”

    There was really no point in arguing. I tried, though. I tried to say, “No, I’m not against getting better nor against “treatment,” only against inhumane treatment.”

    I have since noticed that in younger, less experienced patients, they tend to “split” over treatment. A good doctor, a bad one, a good hospital, a bad one. And that’s kinda a natural response here, you have a terrible experience and you end up RATIONALIZING it away by telling yourself, “They were the exception.” Because you don’t want to believe otherwise. You’re hoping it was only a bad apple and you keep coming back for more.

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  • Frank I think the reason adolescents and young college age adults get roped in is because of the natural risk-taking in that age group. Plus we learn quickly, and are more open to new ideas. This makes a person prime target. We aren’t tied down in a marriage yet, still in many ways “seekers.” We may be going through ordinary teenage experiences yet we might more quickly fall for their lies, maybe simply because of a young person’s openness to try something new.

    Then, the doors behind us clicked shut. That sound, which would become all too familiar, again and again. We were slaves…..

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  • bc harris, I have known neuros who will curse psychiatry under their breath! They see the damages!

    Also, look into the work of Grace jackson, MD. She is a psych but what she does is amazing in her observations of the harms. And she has seen many harmed people, especially the elderly who were on these substances for decades.

    As the Prozac generation gets older we’re now seeing the consequences. It’s not pretty.

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  • The increase in numbers who are turning against psychiatry is evidence that we’re getting somewhere. Plus look at all those out there who are “coming out,” or “questioning.” In ten years’ time, those folks will be staunch anti-psych or even becoming leaders in the Movement. Then, I suspect the walls will come down. Maybe it’s selfish of me to hope it all happens when I ‘m still alive.

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  • Any practice is going to have its quacks. Cancer docs, auto mechanics, too.

    If there’s one thing I know about quackery, no quack out there is going to make a penny without redeeming qualities mixed in. So, say, a quack preacher is going to mix in some truth into his sermons. A quack car salesman gives out free coffee that’s the best coffee in town (before he rips you off).

    It’s a basic marketing rule. If you want to convince them you’re the nicest guy in town, put on a great front and give stuff away.

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  • Ron, your logic is off here. I concede that Nazi Germany had redeeming qualities. After all, many followers gained self-confidence from joining the Nazi military. So that means it did SOME good for SOME people so of course we can’t abolish it, nor ever speak badly about the senseless killing of 11,000,000 people. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water…….As my shrink used to say over and over. Their favorite line.

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  • Kindred I am not keen on euphemisms! I don’t know when it was, sometime after I got my MFA in creative writing that I suddenly realized I DON’T OWE IT TO ANYONE TO WRITE NICE!

    I do feel a sacred obligation to write what is true. I must be true to myself and write what is real even and especially if it stings. I am not obliged to write perfectly. That’s not the goal of art. We’re human, not perfect machines. That is the beauty of memory and how we experience life. Storytelling is vital. No one gonna stop me, though they tried.

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  • Thanks for the overview of the conference and your summary of the presenters. I know of many of them but some I hadn’t heard of or wasn’t too familiar.

    Might I point out that the work of Issa Ibrahim is so vital. I have “The Hospital always wins” on my reading list. I’ve only had a chance to skim over it but am so much looking forward to digging into the book.

    We have to keep telling these stories, so that the atrocities will not repeat themselves. Never let them silence you. And never bow down.

    Julie

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  • A lot of non-mh care is coerced. You find out when you are older and they push the unnecessary screenings and such. Coercion is highest in psych of all sorts, but also it’s there in other branches of medicine.

    For example, I tried suggesting to people to take fish oil, or at least try, but the usual response is, “I’d have to ask my doctor.” Ah, they don’t even know they are slaves. They won’t even exercise claiming they have to get “doc permission.” It is frustrating for me to deal with this outright brainwashing, and the media goes along with it, too, product of the medical profession’s claim of false authority.

    What if drugs could be obtained without a prescription? Wouldn’t this weaken the authority and financial power of the med profession overall, especially drug-centered shrinks? In Uruguay you can get anything except psych drugs. But if you speak to the Farmacia people they’ll give them to you, or some will.

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  • Last time i mentioned gut bacteria to a psychiatrist she tried to use that as “proof” that I was delusional. Good luck finding a psych that actually knows a few things. Except the antipsych psychs that are in fact abolitionists. isn’t the most famous Breggin quote something about seeing a psych being the riskiest thing you can do?

    I think one of the issues that some of the practicing therapists on here have is that they feel slighted by us abolitionists and are having a career identity crisis. Well? Listen.. complete turnaround isn’t cozy! It hurts and you grieve like crazy. Go ahead and take the plunge. Ditch those bogus therapy careers and get a real job! Please do not go on psych disability if you’re frustrated with being jobless. What a damn cop-out that was (on my part, too).

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  • Bonnie, My thinking is that we need to subdivide since one of the management problems in the Movement is that overall we’re too large in number.

    I’m thinking of this: There is a solid anti-drug contingency. Many of these folks have super convincing arguments or research capability that can be used by the anti-drug sector of the Movement. Some folks target certain pills they really hate. This could help bring down certain pharm companies, like suing the underwear off of them.

    There is an anti-shock component of the movement, many of us shock survivors. This segment is really solid and we saw much wonderful work in the 2016 write-in to the FDA and 2015 protests.

    We have people talking about stopping seclusion and restraints and that’s been going on for a while. Some are also targeting forced injections.

    We have seen great work in those that learned to accept hearing voices or learned to embrace them. This is truly revolutionary and I have seen rather convincing work done by these folks completely outside of psychiatry and nuthouses.

    There are areas wide open that don’t seem to be pursued as I’d like to see them. Incarceration, discreditation of patients is done in the legal and social sense, and wrecking careers by putting us out of work, sexual abuse within the System, or of severe boundary violations by irresponsible therapists. This is not as rare as people think and I have seen lawsuits over this in the news.

    Maybe if we have 100 people attacking these aspects, which as I see it all fall under something like FORCE or something that well describes the Nazi concentration camps.

    If I had my way i’d organize a contingency of folks attacking the “care” of eating disorders since nowadays it is done outside the realm of regular psych facilities. A lot of people aren’t even aware of these “specialized” and secluded facilities. The abuse is ten times worse in those places and there is big money at stake, many fatalities, too. Many people have quietly told me that going to ED “care” ruined their lives. i think if only we can organize.

    So bit by bit, we’d knock the whole thing down.

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  • In my opinion many people, especially those on Medicare are simply cash cows. Recently I was “admitted” in haste from an emergency room when it seemed they were fishing for reasons to fill beds. You could tell they needed to get their numbers up. I refused and walked out AMA. I am disgusted that when I tell them I’m “retired” they think I do nothing all day and would rather be in a doc’s office. NO! I have rarely seen doctors at all in the years since I left psych in the dust. I am so, so much healthier. I did NOT go to Uruguay to milk their healthcare system, either! I did not want “better healthcare.” i wanted NO HEALTHCARE. Healthcare doesn’t lead to health. It leads to early death.

    I wanted to stay as far away from doctors of any kind as I could. Unfortunately many of the “studies” assume “not seeing doctors” means poor health. Huh? From what I can tell, those that spend three days a week in appointments are far less healthy than those of us who avoid the medics like the plague. An apple a day, right?

    The last time I spoke to them over at the ER, which of course I ran away from as fast as i could, was that they were insistent that I be “followed” by a kidney doctor. I asked why, and they couldn’t quite answer that one. Nephrology is a cult of hopelessness and almost all of them believe kidneys cannot be restored. Yet i hear amazing first-hand stories of those that defied this, didn’t see the assigned nephrologist, and then, lo and behold, they did restore their kidneys. I keep wondering if instilling a hopelessness mentality is what kills people.

    Likewise, seeing a mental health professional instills the notion of permanence, tells you you’re difficult to treat, or that you need long-term “care.” Or even that you’ll be stuck on drugs forever. This alone kills many, and that recent JAMA study showing that being hospitalized increases suicide rate 100-fold is certainly aligned with this notion.

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  • MH “experts” claim to be life’s sages. It’ s bullshit according to the UN, because we are each the expert on our own experience. According to the CRPD there’s no such thing as lacking competence, no lesser humans. I love that. But when will the mainstream see the light? The UN declaration regarding depression not being a viable medical illness is amazing, one of the highlights of 2017 in my opinion. If this were put into action, into the laws of each country, it would be a landslide victory for our Movement.

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  • How is it even possible to “reform” forced treatment? Oh I know, locked doors that are not really locked but held by velcro. And how about restraints that don’t exist! Lie in this bed and stay there in total agony imagining we tied you here. Do I see an upcoming Vonnegut novel? After all, dead white guys are the writers that matter, so……

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  • I’m scared about it too. Thinking the best route will be UNINSURED. Because right away they milk your Medicare and assume because you’re retired you have nothing better to do than sit in a doc’s office or do time getting unnecessary “treatment” in a “hospital.” I’m considering going totally uninsured so that milking doesn’t happen. They NEED to fill beds, remember? Elderly are targeted and we’re called stupid or worse if we refuse.

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  • Oddly, I took the pills for my eating disorder which was never acknowledged, so THEY thought they were giving me pills for bipolar…but if I said, the pills were “working” I really meant, in secret, that they were improving my eating disorder.

    I think for most of them, they’d assume the pills “worked” if I complained less. But sadly, they had no clue all those years of what i was suffering from. I laugh now, I think it’s hilarious how stupid they were.

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  • The ONLY helpful psychiatrists are ones that tell you psych diagnosis is bogus and actually help people LEAVE the system, get off the pill cycle, stop that ridiculous dependency on therapists, and all of the quackery far far behind. It couldn’t possibly mean getting hooked on yet one more “healer,” thereby transferring addictions. Yikes! Ideally, such shrinks should exist, but in practice I don’t see that type of medicine much, actually, since it means as a doctor, your job is to fire yourself.

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  • Yes I agree. I’m not against caring and listening. I’m against categorizing, use of standardized protocol, lockup and any force and coercion. My experience with therapists was that most were so, so clueless and textbooky that I used to leave in total disbelief. They have this idea of who/what you are, and they don’t budge from that misconception. Ever.

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  • Psychiatrists and many mental health workers force “treatment” based on the psychic prediction of “future dangerousness.” In many societies, locking up and taking rights away based on psychic nonsense is condemned as torture and not allowed. But since they LIE and say it’s beneficial and call it “care,” they’re getting away with it.

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  • I agree. The word antipsychiatry has been twisted around a lot. Others that have been misused or misconstrued end up falling out of use, overused and then died, or replaced for clarity’s sake.

    The F word was extremely popular among some comics in the 1980s. However, overuse of the word obliterated its shock value. We agreed that even now, it can be used but should be done sparingly.

    Think of the use of certain musical instruments. Too many cymbal crashes will weaken the power that a single crash would otherwise have.

    There’s the other issue of occasionally being asked if I’m a scientologist, just because now and then I use the antip word.

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  • Furthermore, the way I see the Movement currently, which I have stated before, is that we are so large that organizing and even communicating between us has become extremely difficult. We don’t have a head count. Also, many are in the “coming out” stage.

    What I highly dislike, and this, too, I’ve stated before, is the “ranking” of members according to how long we’ve been off the drugs. To me, this isn’t even relevant! I don’t care what someone else puts in their body and I’m not one to judge. What I think is truly sad, and representative of oppression and slavery is that I see many, including those that claim to be in the Movement, going to three or four appointments per week with a “counselor” and as addicted as ever to appointments! What kind of hypocrisy is that? Dependency, neediness for so called professionals…And they claim to be out of psychiatry, but barely functioning due to therapy addiction! If anything, for a few, getting off the drugs has made them miserable so they cling more tightly than ever to their beloved therapists like three-year-olds. That reeks of being a nutcase all over again.

    Ditch it all and learn to live on your own. That to me is recovery from the System. I guarantee if anyone out there learns to make their own decisions, to stop relying on these prostitutes in offices, you’re gonna have much better quality of life. Live!

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  • I would agree wholeheartedly. Listening and caring isn’t a skill you get a degree in, nor a specialty. Most people learn empathy in childhood, far earlier than they might attend college.

    I recall in my high school we had sort of a “losers’ club.” it wasn’t called that, but in so many ways we nerdy kids had been rejected, just for being smart. We were the kids who’d been teased for our brains, or who felt out of place somehow. Our heads were more into calculus and Dungeons and Dragons than into learning Textbook Fake Empathy that lasts 45 minutes and then, Time’s Up.

    I can say that every single one of those kids were people I could identify with, people with whom i shared a common bond. I didn’t like all of them, but loved them all. Not one was a trained counselor and most of us had barely heard of social work. Mental illness was not a common household word. I know we gave to each other so much more than any of the adults around us. I recall I even talked a couple of my buddies out of suicide every now and then. Oh, I didn’t charge for that, either.

    Therapy, which I started years later, was a huge disappointment. It continued to let me down over and over until I realized the practice was nothing but prostitution.

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  • Bonnie this is just so brilliant and well-written. I know we’ve all come against brick walls here with the term and the “to what degree” issue.

    Abolishing slavery became the law but immediately we found organizations, entire regions or cities, government leaders and community members trying desperately to find loopholes so they could get around the law. Plessy was such a loophole. If we can’t quite enslave, let’s make sure the blacks are kept separately and call that equal!

    With the ADA came the loophole-seekers, employers who would not comply stating their businesses didn’t qualify for some reason.

    If there’s a law saying you have to pay more taxes, immediately some group is going to snake out every tax loophole they can find.

    Likewise, abolition, say, of psych diagnosis would lead to people finding ways to pseudo-diagnose. We already have a bunch of pop dxes out there that are harming people, such as “Oversensitivity Disorder.” Oh please! Abolition of psychiatry as a whole would lead to pseudo-psychiatrists popping up by different nomenclature. Abolition of therapy will result in an awful lot “coaches” and “healers.” Nomenclature via euphemism.

    I have heard an awful lot of conformity around “drugs are bad but therapy is great.” Listening and caring is great, but I’m convinced you don’t need fancy degrees and licensing to be a decent and kind human being, nor does such academic achievement guarantee you’re going to get kindness. If you want listening and caring, then what we need are listening and caring communities. This one very radical change, in fact, is what will totally blow all “mental health professionals” off the employment rolls.

    Nomenclature problems are a subset of the human failure to communicate properly. There will always be communication problems so long as humans communicate and we aren’t perfect. The Tower of Babel narrative in the Torah is just that story. So maybe we should have learned, eh?

    Thanks so much for starting this awesome dialogue.

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  • I’m surprised the FDA approved this new candy-like drug due to the overdose potential in young children, such as toddlers who can’t read labels and usually do the exact opposite of what we tell them, anyway. And they get into everything!

    When I was growing up I recall parents objected to M&M’s because of the lookalike confusion with “medications.” Some Advil pills and many others sure look like the melt-in-your-mouth candy! Heck, Thorazine sure looked like a burnt orange M&M! I recall parents objecting to the “tiny” candy varieties as well that also resemble pharmaceuticals, such as Tic Tacs.

    I recall also parents were concerned about overdose potential of chewable vitamins, stuff like Tylenol. You even have to be careful with your dog with yummy toxins around such as the heartworm chewable.

    There have been so, so many cases of accidental poisoning with all of these. Even Total cereal can poison a young child due to the added iron.

    Looks like the FDA got bribed somehow, or heavily lobbied and pressured. Do they not care about the safety of children? Michael, was this another fast-track drug? And what about post-marketing results?

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  • Oldhead, most people who are familiar with that 1982 document state that not much has changed in all these years. But there have been a few changes.

    Talk of so-called MI permeates the media now.

    The development of Prozac and it$ wild ride to popularity.

    We have the ADA and HIPAA now, but these can be twisted around or disregarded and become roadblocks.

    More diagnoses (in the UK, they say diagnonsense, I LOVE that!)

    More drugs, they keep claiming…”safER….” ha ha.

    Almost all community hospital wards are locked now.

    Thousands now in our Movement…..In the USA alone. The numbers is making it hard to stay organized at this point. You cannot organize thousands. Smaller units of 100 or fewer need to form, maybe regionally.

    Julie

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  • Kindred and anyone else, I found the “coping skills” to be completely irrelevant since the assumption (false) was that I “couldn’t handle my emotions.” Anyone who has these simplistic and babyish “coping skills” shoved at them and allows this to continue unfortunately also gets the very clear message: “You suck at coping and we know better and can fix this.”

    Given that many here have stated the arbitrary nature of assigning the BPD diagnosis, as Kindred mentioned, perhaps the therapist just doesn’t like the patient, as example, then this leads me to conclude that DBT addresses those that aren’t liked or have acquired bad habits from “treatment” or just aren’t as compliant, or are complaining too much. Instead of validating the complaints and truly listening and caring, the BPD diagnosis is slapped on the patient, only reducing listening, reducing caring, and of course from then on the pt isn’t taken seriously.

    In my case, I believe the BPD was an order from McLean supervisory and upper management. I know now that I was given the BPD diagnosis due to my complaints over the aftereffects of shock. The diagnosis served THEM because now, nothing I said about cognitive problems was taken seriously. Now, the very real congitive confusion I had from ECT was dismissed as a “symptom,” simply poor coping! This was nothing but blaming the patient for the doctors’ gross errors! And further malpractice. All this was 20 years ago and if I had been in a different position, I would have sued.

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  • Why can’t patients just choose, buy ’em out of vending machines, perhaps.

    Throughout my three plus decades of mental health care I always knew far better than the psych what drugs I should be on. Getting them to listen and take me seriously was a big game-and-a-half.

    “Hey doc, did you remember I came to you for an eating disorder? Can we get back to my agenda, please?” But all that was useless.

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  • Tina, the institutional websites (run by hospitals, by such as NAMI, etc) all make the claim of being “The Authority” and advise readers not to go to other sites…….Yes, it’s disgusting.

    I’ve been criticized in the past of writing a “bad blog” and I think whoever said it has no understanding of the difference between a research-based blog and a personal blog. Personal stories are reliable and often written completely true to the events they describe. Research blogs (“Three out of four patients responded to…”) are often fudged or biased to get readers to buy whatever they’re selling.

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  • Wow, thanks Tina. Appreciated. I think certain groups who are often marginalized are more subject to psych bigotry than others. For instance, gay and trans people, or those born into poverty.

    As for poverty, I am shocked at the assumptions I see around me. I hear stuff like “Poor people are bad parents,” “Poor people are all addicted to drugs,” “They’re dirty,” stuff like that.

    What I dislike the most from the medical profession is the immediate assumption that because I am “broke” i don’t have a brain in my head. The medical people are the worst around this.

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  • Jan, that’s a great article. I am a Lifton fan due to his extensive work on cults. I agree that the degree of conformity to atrocity such as torture leads to such practices being seen as normal or okay. It’s hard when I find myself all alone in certain circles speaking of mental health care as genocide, spreading fear, hatred, and loathing of a group of people for nonexistent inferiority.

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  • Robin, I use the slang terms such as “nuthouse” or the literal term, lockup, which is what it is.

    As for mad, I don’t use that to describe myself. I do acknowledge that I fell for therapy and pills, that I was a sucker, that I was coerced into believing I shouldn’t work, etc. Lately I have used the word, “Diagnosee.” This meaning we’ve been subject to the crime of diagnosis.

    To me, I AM different, I was blessed with an amazing experience and blessed because I recall much of it in all the minute details, cruel as it was. I feel blessed because I KNOW what it’s like to be incarcerated for a long time with NO WAY OUT. How many out there can really say they know how it feels. We were trapped in our marginalized lives.

    “We were slaves in Egypt” which we say every Passover suddenly takes on new meaning to me. I find myself relating well to felons and exfelons, to people who don’t have homes, to people who live in poverty, people who were institutionalized and disenfranchised. I consider it a gift, and yes, a difference. Because we were there, behind locked doors. I claim that as my own.

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  • Kindred, I can’t locate your comment about DBT being “benign.” But didn’t you see the way the manuals do nothing but instruct people in common sense? The stuff that’s mostly valid is common sense! Much of it I question, though. For instance, the demeaning way they claim “mulitasking” is bad for you. This is so untrue and it invalidates many talented people who function better if they multitask. A relative of mine who had difficulty concentrating found that his concentration in school increased if he were allowed to chew gum, or read with headphones on. Yet these DBT folks would demean and insult him as not being “present.” I think that’s denying normal and expected human differences.

    Furthermore, DBT insists that you forget the past and only focus on the present. How many times have I heard patients complain abuot restraints, for instance, and then the idiot DBT therapist says, “That was in the past, concentrate on the here and now.” This does nothing to help the patient and furthers justifying human rights abuse by excusing the perps.

    I was demeaned as a writer by DBT “experts.” Their claim was that my exceptional ability to remember past events and recreate them in my writing was “living in the past.” Wow, if my memoir instructors from grad school heard that they’d be really pissed! Fellow students noted that I had excellent ability to self-reflect and had amazing self-insight. I can only conclude those idiot therapists, who barely let me get a sentence in, totally had me wrong. Their groups were a terrible insult.

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  • I think these comments sum it up nicely. INCARCERATION is deeply harmful. It’s not care, it’s not protection, and it’s inherently wrong. After and during incarceration patients/inmates are lied to, told they “needed” it and that it was all justified. Most believe the outright lies, believe they were “ill.” A parallel is when a rape victim is told, “You needed that,” or, “You were asking for it.”

    For those of us who were wrongly accused of suicidality, the harm done in such gaslighting can result in hopelessness and despair after incarceration.

    Justin, thanks for bringing this to the public. I’ll be sharing.

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  • Emily, I’ve been pushing for this for AGES, and failed to get the majority to take heed. I think there are so many here defending the therapy profession that it just makes me sick. As I see it, a lot of therapists have no clue of the harm they’re causing.

    Let’s put it this way: I USED to believe I had a mental illness and that somehow justified incarceration. It doesn’t. After three decades I trashed my old beliefs. I developed new ones (against medical advice, I must add….).

    This process, of leaving your old beliefs behind, is so difficult. Whether you’re leaving a cult, a bad relationship, or the MI System, losing those beliefs you once clung to is going to be a long grieving process. It’s not easy.

    I think many therapists, those still practicing, cling to the belief that therapy is inherently good. Or insist, “I’m the exception.” I can say that three decades of seeing some self-proclaimed “exceptions” told me that they were no different than the others, no better, and some of them were grandiose or power-hungry.

    I think many claim the “exception” status because they want to avoid the necessary grieving we’ve all had to do. I see this in the Patient community, too. “But I really do have an illness, I know I have a brain disease called bipolar, it MUST be true….” I hear these defenses all the time, and I know these unfortunate folks are simply avoiding the grieving process involved in CHANGING YOUR MIND.

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  • I should add that within the Survivor community I see a lot of bigotry, too. I see and hear a lot of “you’re just imagining it” accusations, and frankly, survivors need to quit the snobby attitude. There is outright bigotry against anyone BELIEVED TO BE low-functioning, even within the Movement. That’s gotta stop!

    We aren’t perfect, but frankly, we’ve seen so much hatred and loathing toward ourselves as diagnosees, why does this hatred continue, hatred toward each other, discrimination, and especially snobbery right within the Movement itself? I see some discriminating by employment status, others by economic status. Oh, never mind “Are you off meds yet?” as defining a person, which is arbitrary, meaningless, and just one more form of bigotry.

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  • Congratulations, Emily, looks like Steve just accused you of “splitting.” Thanks for setting him straight. Yes, therapists do this, accusing people of black-and-white thinking, without even realizing that the being in the System causes this via their false “us and them” dichotomy. That’s part of the brainwashing rubbing off on many patients. Even after we leave psych, if we only acknowledge drug harm and fail to see we’ve been brainwashed, we are missing a vital aspect of the psych prisoner experience that needs to be torn down.

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  • Hi Emily, The coaching model does not use diagnosis, or isn’t supposed to. It is not about what is wrong with you. A word of caution: Anyone out there interested in finding a coach, find out where they got their coaching training and ensure they’re licensed in coaching. This SHOULD ensure that they’ve been trained to disregard DSM labels.

    I interviewed on the phone with a “coach” who apparently was not properly trained. Apparently it’s her standard to ask about any prior diagnoses and to assume there’s validity in them, to the point of believing the patient must be psychotic since a doctor said so. The patient’s word will be automatically disregarded. You can’t possibly get decent coaching from such a person. BEWARE!

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  • I often use the same words that are used when it is done against a particular group, such as prejudice, bigotry, discrimination. (Apparently a friend of mine didn’t like my use of the word “discrimination” and bashed me for using it, rather unfairly I must say.)

    Wait till you’re over 55, I say this to anyone out there who thinks discrimination does not exist. Discrimination against “elderly” (note quotation marks) runs rampant. Just try getting a job or housing at 55.

    I’m just as guilty of judging people by age as anyone, and I’m guilty of insulting older people in the past, doubting their capability, and worse. We will all get old and for many that’s when it hits you: you know what you did was wrong. Most people do these microaggressions without realizing it. With the dementia industry booming, I see even more hatred and fear of older people. “Are you sure you aren’t just having a senior moment?” Yes, it’s gaslighting! Grrrr…..

    I use discrimination or bigotry when describing what is done to a group whether the differences are real, such as chronological age (bringing along with that false assumptions of incapability), or completely perceived, such as seeing a diagnosee as having a brain defect or assuming dangerousness.

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  • Emily, you bit your nails, picked at things, contemplated suicide, all because you were expected to do so, expected to fail. Diagnosis increases these behaviors. Diagnosis creates a Borderline patient. Their overly strict boundaries will also increase impulsive behavior and “acting out.”

    Interestingly, after I was changed from bipolar to borderline to explain away aftereffects of ECT (since they refused to blame the ECT) at that point, I began to act out and even start talking suicide. I did this merely to act the part of borderline. They cornered me into this. As soon as I got away from McLean the diagnosis was removed and any of that stuff that they’d created in me ended.

    Expectation will encourage violence also. You keep frisking a patient for weapons, what does that say? It says “We got one hand on the panic button.” Gee, no wonder they have revolving doors in those places.

    It will even change how your friends treat you, if they make up their minds you are borderline. Overly stupid boundaries, fear of you, keeping distance, refusal to converse due to fear, and even family disowning. Expectation ruins relationships, and therapy and diagnosis are the vehicle.

    I know this insults therapists out there but my experience tells me that most, good and bad, defend their profession like it can do no wrong and are in denial of the harms they themselves have caused. Both good and bad therapists are in denial of the crimes their profession has done.

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  • Thanks so much for initiating this, Emily. You have enough clout with the MIA higherups that you have more power round here. I commend you for allowing for a discussion that speaks way, way beyond the pills. Mental patients were incarcerated, marginalized, brainwashed, and kept poor long before psych drugging became the norm. And the cult-like atmosphere makes it very easy to turn a person, anyone, into an instant mental case. Especially young people whose hormones make them easy prey. This totally explains why supposedly “severe mental illness” strikes young adults. They’re more likely to fall for the hype.

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  • Furthermore, Feelin’, day treatment programs use isolation (ghettoizing the patients), they take you out of your usual environment, SOME actually are locked.

    Patients are regularly told terrible things will happen if they leave the Day Treatment cult. These threats, often empty and invalid, are just exactly the same as “If you leave, the Devil will get you,” type of threat used on cult members. In eating disorders care, patients are told, “Ed will get you,” Ed being the Devil-persona who will trick patients into the dreaded “relapse” at any moment and is waiting right around the corner.

    Day treatment often uses up 30 hours of a patient’s week. My first experience was six hours a day, five days a week of regular day treatment. That’s how I became a mental patient, well before I ever took a psych drug.

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  • Oh my god yes, that forced “breaking point.” I recall that first in group therapy. The staff LOVED it when we bawled in group. “Ah, there’s nothing wrong with asking for help, you came to the right place, you did the right thing. Just cry….Okay everyone Group Hug!” Yes, it’s just another way to encourage dependency and neediness.

    Later, even after the year 2000, the most abusive therapists LOVED it when patients cried or admitted deep anger. Some had us punch punching bags or talk to empty chairs. All baloney, all only a control move by the therapist. Why? She needs dependents. Desperately. It is horrible abuse, and it takes its toll. Red flags are when you start to see Stockholm Syndrome, and remarks such as, “I can’t live without my therapist, I’ll die without her.” Often this means very bad abuse is happening behind closed doors.

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  • Emily, same here. I took one look at the DBT manual and said to myself, “Wow, how insulting.” Immediately the manual talks about how “some people” don’t have good “emotional regulation” or some other nonsense that clearly demarcated those who were “sick” vs “normal emotions.” Separate, inferior, requires therapy, etc. I found DBT to be nothing but watered-down Buddhism, stolen in fact from what is supposed to be sacred. Not only that, it allows for the most uneducated, un-creative, and lazy therapists to use a guidebook (ah, those tear-out sheets) to run a group based on standardized bullshit care.

    Many therapies are like this and most can be used as power-plays for the benefit of the therapist.

    Only two months? Geez, wow…When i was in the Moonies only ten days I would say it took me years to get over it. I didn’t have a PTS__ reaction but nonetheless I really needed to hash it out with someone. Don’t even bother with therapists, they will only tell you you don’t cope well or they’ll blame the parents. They will not understand the depth of such a thing. Standard reaction. I went through all that for decades and just about all of them simply didn’t care about my cult experience. No, they wanted me to tell them abuse stories from early childhood and then, re-story my stories and tell me, “Oh no, that was actually child abuse.” Boy were they wrong, and it all took its toll.

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  • Emily even though you were in this “cult” for a very brief period, it’s enough to cause severe trauma. I was only in the Moonies ten days! Yet during that time, they coerced me into giving them about $400, which was a lot back in 1979! Most importantly, the following:

    Cult involvement is traumatizing mainly because of the knocking down of the person’s beliefs. This will happen even if you’re considered a “strong person.” Brainwashing affects people of any religion and of any background. Don’t for one minute assume you temporarily fell for it due to personal weakness. You’re likely to hear this, I should warn you, but it’s baloney. That I know of, they prey on highly educated people, people likely to have sums of money to donate, people who are traveling in a locale far away from friends and relatives who would talk them out of it. Young people are more likely to take risks due to normal hormonal changes during adolescence. This is why college students are often recruited.

    What happened to you broke down a vital relationship in your life, despite the fact that your own involvement was brief. Yes, it says something for the power of these cults.

    Likewise, mental health care, including therapy, does the exact same thing, though they claim it’s curative.

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  • Yes, there’s a difference between believing you’re responsible for all the random life events you didn’t actually cause, such as having your home flood due to a storm you certainly had no control over. You can only control how you respond to bad luck. Likewise, how does the surrounding community respond? Do they blame the homeowner in statements like “You must have sinned,” “You weren’t careful enough,” “You caused it by having bad Karma,” all of which are totally self-serving and defy logic.

    We do not manifest our destiny. Anyone who is totally convince they possess this capacity needs to re-examine their logic and grandiosity.

    We can, however, change our outlook, re-story past life events differently, try to understand those that harmed us, apologize ASAP when we screw up, and clean up our messes whether they were due to our own carelessness, or from random events. We can choose to turn our anger into community activism and help others. These are choices.

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  • Emily when I learned about cults back in the 1980’s, the Moonies were Christian-based but just as many gurus out there push the Eastern religions too. Their version, of course.

    Religion helps many people but like anything else it can be abused, and used as a means of control. Psychotherapy can work about the same way.

    Break down the client. Get the client to “confess.” Tell the client his ideology is all wrong. Promise salvation through therapy. Replace client ideology with desired new beliefs. “I have a mental illness. I will have to be in treatment for the rest of my life….”

    As soon as I realized it, I was amazed at the parallels. They use isolation, incarceration, and even altering diet and sleep deprivation. I’ve been meaning to write some kind of “proof” of all this, but it’s hard to get anyone to listen.

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  • George, your writing interests me but I regret I have very little faith in psychotherapy. I was far more harmed by therapists than I was by psychiatry. I am sick and tired of hearing “non-drug approaches.” Frankly if therapy is still okay round here I’m out.

    And as for writer’s block, maybe try getting incarcerated in a nuthouse. If you ever leave in one piece, you’ll leave with plenty to write about.

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  • Yes, all the people who now have Fibro that I know all took anti-depressants. I heard Grace Jackson, MD speak and she mentions the SSRI drugs which pass through the blood-brain barrier actually damage nerve endings in the brain. I asked her if this meant the same drugs could do similar damage to nerve endings elsewhere. She said, “Good question. Probably this is true, but we have yet to do the research to back it up.” In other words, yes, the idea is plausible, but either they haven’t looked into it, or the results of research were hidden from the public.

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  • Emily, Congratulations, you’ve survived a cult! From the moment you began to describe the “training,” I told myself it was a cult. I would recommend Steven Hassan’s book on cults, and Robert J Lipton as well. I’m not sure if it’s Lipton or Lifton, but the work is classic.

    Almost all mental health “care” is cult-like and highly coercive. This includes therapy and pseudo-therapy (“healers”).

    You are right that we do not “create our own reality.” It’s totally illogical to believe this, but sadly, many people are now buying into it. We can change our outlook, re-story the past (how we tell the story) but we cannot control the random events happening around us. Anyone who thinks they can is full of themselves (grandiose). Also, this leads directly to victim-blaming. Such philosophies dominate some of the “new therapy.” I am saddened that so many buy into this false logic. “So you got raped? It was because you have bad karma.” NO!!! No no no! Many times bad things or good things happen to us by chance. We need to accept this. We are just not so powerful as these gurus claim (while they siphon your bank account, woo you in, etc).

    Therapy’s insistence that you are suffering due to “bad coping” is also victim-blaming and a cop-out on the part of the therapist. I came to therapists for an eating disorder and it seems this is the first standardized approach. “You must have bad coping skills and we know better….” It’s total bullshit. Tthe therapy helps very few people and for the majority for whom the harmful therapy is totally irrelevant end up blaming themselves as “treatment failures.”

    One word of caution. I, too, am a survivor of a religious cult called the Moonies. I was 21 years old, 1979. I barely heard of “therapy” and by all means had no mental illness label at the time. Unfortunately, I was traumatized by the cult (although you couldn’t really call my reaction “post-traumatic”). For the next year I sought out people I could talk to about my experience.

    It is so vital to find community after a cult experience. I cannot say it more strongly. Your best assets are fellow cult survivors. After a cult, the tendency to go running to yet another cult is high unless you have some way to resolve the experience.

    Sadly, this primed me to fall for therapy and subsequently buy into the cult of the mental illness community. I doubt I would have fallen for it otherwise. It took me over 30 years to walk out of that cult.

    I tell this story because I know in my heart that doing so will have value to others.

    Julie

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  • Wow, there is so much here. Tina, if you’re looking for anyone committed to taking our bodies back, I’m in. Leaving mental health “care” was the best move I could have made. I am disgusted with my recent experience at an ER, where I think I should not have gone but I’d had a seizure (think: post-ECT) and didn’t give myself the chance to talk myself out of it. I found that “healthcare” is in a sorry state indeed! What you say is true!

    They never examined me, nor spoke to me beyond getting my name. Apparently they went behind my back and got old opthalmology records from last August (where I refused to let the doc operate and he treated me like “foolish woman” and probably wrote that as well). So they came back to me saying the usual disgusting line, “Oh, we know all about you.” I told them off, saying that if they’d “discussed my case” they should have involved me in the discussion.

    Then, with no explanation, they gave me Benadryl via the IV, LIED to me saying it was “for your headache,” then, immediately gave me Reglan. I’ve never taken that and had not complained of stomach issues. I concluded that I was given this in error, that perhaps it was intended for another patient. Then they had to cover up what they’d done. this is a dangerous pill. Asking “Are you allergic to any meds” is NOT informed consent!

    I was outa there, very fast. I am terrified to go back to any Western practitioner. I’ve been tending to my injuries myself, and amazed at how fast I’m getting better on my own.

    Beyond that, I also found acupuncture years ago made me woozy. They told me to wait 20 minutes before walking home in traffic. They offered me tea, too, and I had no objection, since I couldn’t walk too well at first!

    I always tell people, “Take your life back from institutional ownership.” And of course, “Ditch the diagnosis.”

    Julie

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  • JanCarol, THANK YOU! Can I share this? I collect stuff on cults. Back when I was actually in one I learned one very valuable lesson, that both Eastern and Western practices are riddled with cults or cult-like groups that are not religious.

    I had not heard of 3HO. New ones pop up all the time. I am familiar with Robert Lipton’s landmark work. I am also an ex-Moonie (1979) but walked out on my own. I later learned it’s rare that anyone does that.

    The mental health ghetto (notably, day treatment) has many cult-like features.

    I have been on Dr. Brogan’s mailing list for a while. Though her blog entries are impressive I am not too thrilled with the constant sales pitches. There are other red flags as well. This is not to say that the information she shares has no value. I think it has great value, or much of it does, but I fear exactly as you do.

    We must be vigilant these days. Taking control of your health, making your own decisions (not overly relying on Doctor OR Guru), and Freedom of Thought are essential.

    Julie

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  • LavenderSage, I am noticing that in the USA if you sign on to the handouts, you compromise your privacy to a large extent. The government now owns you and “manages” your “healthcare” proportionate to the extent handouts you receive.

    “So you want more? Sign this paper. We own you now. We are the Better Parents. We tell you where to live. We give you great coping skills and great chemicals. We give you a wonderful social group, other guinea pigs.

    “If you dare leave, or try to, we’ll abuse worse, we’ll come after you. We’ll get the law after you.

    “We’ll see to it that you fail if you leave. We will claim your failure is RELAPSE. If you talk about how we abused we will silence you with drugs, incarceration, or poverty, claiming your words trigger others.

    Then we hand you more handouts, and monitor how well you are complying.”

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  • Thank you for all you do and thank you for keeping us alerted to what is happening with the CRPD. On the whole the public is not aware of the importance of the laws and the influence that laws, language, and the arts and media have on how we act and treat each other, which directly leads to these abuses, or prevents them. Yes, these torturers and liars, masquerading as “professional mental health practitioners” are truly abusive and power-hungry. They must be taken down.

    Where do we go from here?

    Julie

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  • Thanks for pointing out these discrepancies, some so amusing I laughed out loud, especially the little convenient part about hiding the stuff that didn’t fit. This is my Very Scientific Observation. We have skulls. This is part of the exoskeleton. They grow until we are a certain age. Then, they’re solid. Our brains, which are a bunch of mush, keep growing. It is not possible, not physically possible to have a brain that is so large that it outgrows one’s skull. This means if you have a small-sized skull, as I do, you are doomed to have a small-sized brain. I was assured as a child that even though I was doomed by heredity to be mini, this had no bearing on intelligence nor had any bearing on anything else to do with what I thought about nor my brain’s capacity to do what it had to do. It seems that now, nearly six decades later, my mini-sized brain is functioning just fine. Actually no shrink ever pinpointed a specific “abnormality” in my brain. Perhaps its very existence was offensive to them!

    I have also concluded that these MRI-based arguments that we used to hear, as the authors here have pointed out, do not have much validity. The psych establishment only uses them to make intelligent-sounding arguments when they can’t think of anything else to say. The MRI has limited usefulness, except a neurologist might use it to pick up a massive blood clot if it’s obvious enough. It might show torn cartilage in a joint when an xray does not, but I am sure it tells us nothing about the way humans think. In fact, I got a good idea if anyone’s wondering. How about asking the person? Isn’t it cheaper?

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  • What was the age of the participants? I would imagine the #1 factor would be not the yoga itself, nor type of yoga, but how they were introduced to it. If they were forced to do yoga, I can’t imagine it would be helpful. If they were encouraged, or if it were offered to them and they were willing participants doing this as a choice, then I can see it might be helpful. Also, I imagine the instructor would make a difference, too.

    If you have a yoga instructor who constantly “corrects” a student’s posture, I cannot imagine students gaining benefit. However an encouraging and enthusiastic instructor in any topic, one that believes in the strength of the students as human beings can make all the difference for a student, even the most depressed ones. This might apply to any inspiring teacher, leader, or mentor, not just one who teaches yoga.

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  • Chaya, i believe we, as a society, are currently over-therapized. Therapy, that is, self-examination or self-reflection didn’t happen in an office nor with a professional person to such a widespread extent that it does now. Nor was it ever part of the “healthcare” experience. You didn’t go to a doctor (your “primary”/”internist”), then, get a referral to a person with whom you had a conversation, that is, “talking.”. This simply wasn’t done.

    Such self-indulgence did happen, however. This took place in the form of journal-writing, letter-writing, relationships such as friendships and romance (apart from sexual-only relations), meetings in coffeehouses, public gatherings, clubs, church groups and the like. Postal correspondence was quite common and letter exchange was a wonderful way to get to know another person, share ideas, and help each other for the common good. Picking up the phone and having long talks would be a great way to open doors. Late at night, many of us sat and wrote in our diaries. Many of these were stored away so no one could easily find them, or locked with a key. Or kept under a pillow.

    They say even those in prisons did such a thing. They wrote on toilet paper, any scrap they could find. The writers of the Bible wrote stories as well, and much has been passed down to us in the form of chanting and song. In fact, most has not happened in an office, nor done by paying a person.

    Anne Frank kept a journal. She did not see a therapist.

    Such was life.

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  • Sera, thanks for clarifying. Gee, I worked so, so hard at FAKING that I am a Genuine Mental Patient. I yellowed up my two front teeth and made them look perfectly cracked to imply poverty. I knocked down my apartment, downsizing it so as to make sure I appear poor as can be. I wear second-hand clothing since that’s what a marginalized person would wear. I post to MIA, of course, letting the whole world know just how pissed off I am. Perfect unemployment record for decades, and all those incarcerations….Never mind whether it’s true of not. i could be lying, couldn’t I? Maybe I am. I’m playing the part oh so perfectly, so convincingly, and now you’re telling me it’s for naught because some young whippersnapper just out of college can cheat through a test to get a fake degree in this? But I got a Real Degree in it! Paid a hefty tuition, Graduated with all the honors, too……

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  • Yeah sometimes it really isn’t your attitude, but the attitude of all the assholes around you. I sure found that out fast. This is why a lot of people are finding out that the relocation method does indeed work. Plain and simple, if you’re not seen as nuts, you aren’t. i can’t believe the number of people I have met since my “escape” who likewise also escaped, and succeeded at it. it does not always work the first time, but it works amazingly well.

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  • Actually, Oldhead, most people who really do have sleep apnea can’t breathe at night because fat in their necks blocks the airway. Or because of the neck position. Neck position causes snoring, which only partially blocks the airway. I notice that with Puzzle. If I change her neck position, she stops snoring. Simple remedies like changing your pillow can change everything. IF it’s that. Or losing weight. I hate the way 99% of doctors out there have a haughty attitude toward women. And I hate walking in there hiding my dirty little secret that I am a malpractice victim that NEVER even got justice. I can’t stand waiting rooms, I can’t stand looking at the suckers in there and I can’t stand seeing them literally worshiping the MD like the MD is god almighty. Makes me sick. Makes me think “Why don’t you think for yourself. Or can’t you? Why don’t you do your own research. Get a life.” I feel like walking out. And I never want to give the doc my money.

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  • janCarol, I believe you. My friend ended up with the same thing, she had a stroke out of the blue. However, I don’t have sleep apnea, and I don’t want people who have never met me diagnosing me online. I dont’ know why people do these online scare tactics, I seriously resent it. Sometimes I think people waste energy wishing and hoping complete strangers get deathly sick when in fact they know nothing about their state of health. It is projecting. I don’t know why people do that online.

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  • This is PRECISELY what I do! I don’t go to loud places. I live in the quietest apartment imaginable and I do not have loud neighbors. I managed to find a low-rent place that actually isn’t near screaming kids nor near a loud bar, nor near a loud TV. I am so, so blessed, I can’t believe it. I don’t go to bars. And if I am on a bus and people start screaming into their cell phones, I move! I really do, I change seats and move from their noise. This sometimes works and sometimes does not, and it MIGHT even give them a hint. I’ve been trying to reach this one bus company to tell them to please enforce the rules but they have not been answering at their administrative offices. My plan is not to say, “I have a disability and…” But simply to say, “If this is the rule, then it should be enforced,” emphasizing respect for all, quiet for the sake of bus driver safety, and for the sake of those that enjoy a reading a good book.

    As for TV, I am sure the noise, not the violent shows, causes seizures in kids and adolescents, never mind the flickering light, also too much noise will probably cause headaches, migraines, and a host of other problems. Toss it out and you’ll solve a lot of problems and save on the cable bill.

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  • From what I recall of Massachusetts, the police existed to protect the relatively wealthy against the poor. If you were out of work or an immigrant, the cops were not there to serve you, but to protect the Citizens who Belonged there against you. So those of us who were seen as leeches didn’t dare call the cops. Ever. For any reason, not to report a crime, nor to call if we ourselves had a medical emergency.

    I recall one day in Public Housing we saw some kid doing vandalism across the street. We looked at each other. Not one of us dared call the cops on the kid. We knew if we did, the cops would come and insist WE had called because we ourselves were criminals. We’d get our apartment searched, or the cop would come and ask, “Is everything okay,” and we’d get a “wellness check.” Yes, it sucked bad. Forget reporting a rape, you had no credibility with them. You were called dangerous or a drug addict no matter what. If you were a foreigner, you were a criminal and a drug addict. i saw them refuse to take an old woman to the hospital because in a panic she was having trouble speaking in English. I happen to know you will forget all your other languages when you are frightened and those cops knew that, they just hated foreigners. I called them once because I passed out, and they threatened me repeatedly so I sent them away.

    I also had my apartment illegally searched, no warrant, and I wasn’t even informed. I have since spoken to the state legislature about that. They told me it was certainly illegal, cops or no cops, no matter what income level I was, and whether or not I was “psych” does not matter. Although you can’t exactly call the cops on the cops.

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  • AA I do believe you. I just KNOW I do not have it. I am so afraid of going to this lung doctor knowing I don’t have sleep apnea, and getting yet one more incorrect dx. I am so frustrated being unable to get a direct appointment with a sleep doc. I recall at McLean, the entire sleep clinic was run by incompetent shrinks. 1999. Now that was a total joke. I went there once but didn’t need to. I had insomnia caused by a drug, Effexor, and they never figured it out and claimed it was “bad sleep hygiene.” They made me so messed up I ended up inpatient. Then I got out, fired my doc and the next doc figured out the drug caused it all.

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  • I heard the machine is ADDICTING, and once you start using it you become dependent, so dependent you cannot live without it. Anyway I am skinny so I highly doubt I have sleep apnea. Besides, back in 2013 those abusive 1:1 people would have complained if I had snored (if I even slept while they sat there next to me breathing down my neck….) i don’t wake up out of breath, I am not gasping, etc. Definitely not! That would be a sign of it. I don’t gasp. I run 5k regularly and I have no lung problems, so……At 59, I should be darned proud of myself.

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  • Oh it’s just as well, Sera, I got a good sampling of incompetency. I found it inspiring enough to get me to leave, so……

    I’d love to talk Massachusetts with you anytime. As I told you, I was raised there, graduated high school, and lived there for decades, plus I am a McLean grad, so I know tons of dirt on the place. I grew up down the street from McLean and the Met. Those and Fernald, that was there, too, the three of them, the trio. I was in the Met, too. Not long. I wrote a lot about it, tons. The duck pond, too. Oh, I also went to UMass/Amherst and lived in Northampton for a while. My dog was born on Hampton Ave. I even grew a pot plant in my apartment that ended up taller than me (not a big deal since I’m short) but I wasn’t a druggie at all so when I moved I left it there. Hmm…maybe you can go get it since it’s probably 20 feet tall by now.

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  • Sera, you did it again! I LOVE love love this. I wrote to the writers of the latest article and actually got a kinda lame response. Apparently they have indeed been getting “feedback.” I’d like to point out that other major papers are doing the same thing, writing hateful stereotypical stuff about so-called mental patients and about how dangerous and violent we are, or how we have terrible hygiene, or how we are slobs who are a nuisance to landlords, communities, and families. Looks like a joint and planned media effort, government and pharma backed to scare the poop out of the public.

    As for CBFS, count me as one of the dropouts. I didn’t die. I fired them. I fired them late in 2013. I did this realizing this was a voluntary “service” that I could choose to end. By all means they had not been a help to me. I didn’t want monitoring by these state people who didn’t care, didn’t show up most of the time, didn’t know what they were doing, and frankly, I found those visits an insult. They sent mostly people who knew nothing about eating disorders, so I had to educate them. We all did. One of them sat there playing with her cell phone so I had to tell her to stop. It was just plain insulting. Another never showed, and apparently had logged in her work log that she had, so finally I told the supervisor that she hadn’t been to see me nor had she contacted me for months. I didn’t like squealing like that. Apparently the state workers do stuff like that. It’s our word against theirs, after all, and who are we but a bunch of crazies?

    At one point, I wrote an email to the supervisor, saying if he didn’t shape up I’d report him to the DMH. Within a week or two he came over with my CBFS worker saying if I didn’t go to an ER he would “section” me. My poor CBFS worker was caught in the middle. There was no valid reason for the supervisor’s actions except retaliation. Then I’m sure he called the ER and saw to it that they had me put in no matter what. He got fired after that. A bunch of them did.

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  • I just wanted to add that “oversensitivity disorder” (which goes by a couple other names, too) does not exist, nor by any of the other names, either. This is a crime in the pop psychology world, mostly done by coaches and the like. I know a few who were taken in by this so badly that upon learning of this “disorder” they then became more “oversensitive.” Oh no! Then, they began “monitoring” their “oversensitivities.” The problem was this made them almost completely unemployable and unable to handle most social situations. It’s very sad. While it’s great to be sensitive, these pop psychology articles and life coaches who call it a disorder are really harming people. All they do is suggest it, then, suddenly, people get hooked on it, monitoring their overreactions and they’ll nearly strangle anyone who triggers them. “I’m special” becomes a label. Ditch the label and you’re recovered and ditch the life coaches, too. And stop acting like people who trigger you are criminals. This article reminds me of that, yeah, how it can all go overboard.

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  • Yeah I can’t really talk about it but I have tried making calls. Most sleep centers ONLY treat apnea. This is because most severe cases are apnea. They say people have it and don’t realize it. They’re very closed-minded and will hear nothing else. I am positive I do not have it. Also, they’ll insist if you keep telling them you don’t sleep, they’ll say it is “paradoxical.” Many do have that, but that’s easy to tell with a sleep tracker. I tried that, used several, and found I really was not sleeping. Barely at all, nor during the day except nodding off into mini-sleeps, only momentarily, not actual sleep, but for a few seconds here and there. I now control the mini-sleeps with caffeine but I found other things such as cacao (plain, not chocolate) work better. This concentrates it all so you’ll only sleep at night. So now I actually get projects done. Now I can read!!! I can read a book and not fall asleep while reading. I can enjoy a bus ride and not nod off on the bus, and to me, after five years of very bad zombie-like suffering, I am overjoyed. I loved studying and taking classes and not being able to read stopped all that, and now I have that back and love reading again. Plus not nodding off is really a blessing.

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  • One thing that DOES help is sleeping with my dog. Anyone else find that this helps? My friend obliterated her nightmares that way. I laugh and tell myself if I ever had a sleep study, my dog’s snoring would get picked up on the monitor and i’d get diagnosed with apnea. Then, who would go on the machine, me or her? Or would i use the machine for a coat hanger or sell it for a price on ebay?

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  • I have delayed trying marijuana because I am afraid it will rekindle the binge eating aspect of my eating disorder. I am considering various other things still. I find yoga tedious and meaningless and it actually reminds me too much of therapy abuse. Even vigorous exercise does not seem to improve my sleep, although I enjoy running very much. I run both outdoors and on a treadmill and I love pretending to be competitive.

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  • Yeah AA, a lot of us ended up with narcolepsy from the drugs. Long term use leads to inability to sleep. And none of the pat answers help. Please be very careful that the doc doesn’t just send you back to a psych. I tried to get in wiht a doc but I had a feeling he was going to default to a sleep apnea diagnosis, and then put me on a machine I know I don’t need. So I canceled the appointment. I want to try to get directly to a sleep specialist but seems you cannot. You can’t seem to bypass the shrink.

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  • Yep, a lot of my friends who survived cancer are now facing “unexplained” auto-immune problems, or fibro, which as far as I’m concerned means “the doctor doesn’t know or is lazy or doesn’t care, so he’s calling it that just to make you happy you have a diagnosis.”

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  • Well the cool thing is, JanCarol, while I did indeed comply, and in fact I was known for being excellent at my compliance, I also now have a huge library in my memory that I can use any time I want. I have an endless supply of writing material. Oh they hate that!!! They hate that i keep coming up with more stories from the nuthouse……..

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  • Tabita when I was a kid my parents, like just about all parents then, had their copy of Dr. Spock they kept in the kitchen on an upper shelf just high enough so I had to stand on a chair to reach up and grab it and take it down so I could have a peek. One day, I did. I leafed through it, trying to find out their “secrets.” I wanted to know EVERYTHING. I figured that and the Torah held those secrets adults had that they didn’t want children to know. Very little of Dr. Spock has anything about so-called childhood disorders, interestingly. Much is on how children lose their baby teeth, learn how to use toilets, and learn to use something besides a breast. Likewise, when I was a kid growing up in the 1960’s we didn’t even think of childhood disorders. We wanted our baseball team to win, I remember that. They lost.

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  • Tabita, I think also parents should know about these “rehabs” where kids are being sent to where they are getting this therapy from abusive therapists. Sadly, these therapists have an agenda. The going stereotype is that anyone who goes to therapy must have “bad parents.” I know for one thing i did not. Many who go to therapy did not have bad parents, but these therapists drill it into young people’s heads that they were abused as children, inducing either entirely false memories, or the vague notion that somehow they must have been abused.

    I did not get a specific false memory of childhood abuse by my parents, but for decades I truly felt like the “oddball” in therapy since I had not been child abused and most other patients were victims of childhood parental abuse. Many of the therapists were pushy, constantly saying, “There must have been something,” or pushing me to admit to abuse that never happened. The pressure is high in these centers, especially at the residential, intensive, and day treatment levels. People need to be warned of this, since the pressure on young and vulnerable patients can literally break families apart.

    I did not have abusive parents, period. I was abused by a childhood friend in high school. These idiot therapists, many of whom (I later found out) were only playing out their own fantasies and abuse trauma themselves, refused to listen to me all those years. Parents should be warned that these abusive therapists are out there. Families can be destroyed by therapy. I went to therapy at age 23 and i’m 59 now. My family was fine before, not divorced, certainly. Now, the ones still alive barely speaking to me, and I have relatives I have never met. This is so heartbreaking. It’s because of therapy, and the one thing I want is my family back.

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  • In regards to spiritual abuse, I learned about this when I joined anti-cult organizations. Then, years later, people were saying they’d been abused this way in mainstream churches, too. So these actually were streamlined to call it spiritual abuse. This is not the same as the bizarre sexual abuse you hear about that isn’t too common (I hope) that might happen in a church situation. The abuse done via “You are a sinner” is far more common, and it’s done in a religious context in churches, particularly the stricter kind, usually to very young and impressionable kids, OR, it can happen in rather deviant (that is the word used) religious cults that use a lot of coercion. They take these impressionable people, use isolation, and knock down their former beliefs by calling them sinners. Then, replace these former beliefs with new ones. The emphasis on sin and use of “God” and concept of punishment by whatever the idea of the person’s deity is can be terrifying to a young or impressionable person.

    By the way, this is done in mental hospitals but not usually done using the deity concept. To do so in the USA would not be legal, given separation of church and state. But it’s done, if you read what I wrote about Ed. You bet.

    In the MI context, whoever you were before, college student or whatever, is destroyed. Who am I now? Whatever they tell you. You aren’t a student. You aren’t a law student, you aren’t a salesperson. You aren’t a mother. Go ahead, cry, But we can give you a new role. Here is your wonderful gift from us. We can save you. You are bipolar, you have a very serious illness, and you will need medication and therapy for the rest of your life. This is the new person, the new role this person now takes on. Most do, sadly.

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  • I personally do not use the word “narcissist” to describe one of my former therapists even though the abuse she did was certainly along those lines. I won’t describe a certain person in my life as a narcissist because I do not use psych disease labels. I refuse to do so. No matter how pissed off I was, I just don’t do it. No matter how bad the abuse was, I will not excuse an abuser’s abuse by saying it was due to a hopeless brain disease! I’m actually not even pissed anymore anyway. Listen to TalkWithTenney where she had Dr. Paula Joan Caplan on there, talking about how important it is not to disease-label Trump no matter where we may stand politically. We cannot disease-label political figures, not Hitler, not anyone. If we didn’t like being called mentally ill, then we need to not call anyone else mentally ill, either, not even those that harmed us. They weren’t sick, they were cruel. These shrinks didn’t have a brain disease that caused their cruelty, right? If they knew what they were doing, and did it anyway, they were using bad science and bad policies and were dishonest and illegal and nothing they did is at all excusable by a nonexistent brain disease or chemical imbalance we all know is nonexistent. “Oh, you poor doc, take some tylenol….” Agreeably, some may have simply been naive, or totally ignorant, but you wonder how long were they oblivious to that big giant obvious lie they were living? We can only hope they come to their senses and stop doing what they are doing.

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  • Hey, Auntie, I wish I had been terrified much, much sooner. I was finally scared sh*tless after decades of their “safe and effective treatment,” straight out of the USA. Funny, my exodus away from them, and my tossing out of the lies they had taught me ended up curing me.

    However, that is often how it works, I have since learned.

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  • As far as terminology goes, I don’t use “distress” and I have never liked that. I find it’s just a substitute word for mental illness and much of the time it’s used that way, too much of the time. Same with “spiritual emergency.” Just a substitute word. Or used that way too much.

    Sometimes I think I could go through news articles about people perceived as mentally ill, or even go through various textbook articles and re-write them leaving out that terminology. I could substitute “perceived mental illness” or “misunderstood” or “medicated as if mentally ill” “treated as if dangerous” or some such thing, and iron out awkward sentences that result, and I wonder how different the articles would then seem.

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  • I think I was always that way. I was not scared of loud noises as a child out of the ordinary, but I am certainly bothered by them. When I was small I complained to my dad about my baby brothers’ screeching voices. He promised me that I was lucky that they were boys because they would grow up and their voices would change. This came true, but I had to wait many years. I recall this story with much amusement. If either of my brothers ever read these words I hope they have a good chuckle.

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  • You have to realize that dieting causes physical problems, very severe ones. Crash dieting causes a cycle that people get caught up in. Look it up. It causes binge eating and that is a cycle that can last many years. Crash dieting affects one’s resistance to insulin and how insulin acts in the body.

    Look up the Minnesota Starvation Experiment, for one.

    I know that after anorexia, the body acts as if the person is going to starve again, so it braces itself for another famine again for many years. What happens is that the body may store fat, or, it may not fail to feel hunger for many years, or it may cause the person to binge eat in effort to forage for more food, or it may cause irregularities in eating regardless of “discipline” or “will power.” After a crash diet this is what happens, and it’s a physical reaction that nature gave us.

    After repeated binge eating, likewise. The body is used to binge eating, so it braces itself for the next onslaught of extreme food intake. This means at the next suggestion that a binge is coming, the body will shoot itself up with insulin. What happens now? The person wants food! Badly. This cycle is very hard to break.

    The entire original reason for the crash diet….well, that very well may have to do with poor self-image, or social stuff going on, but we’re dealing with serious dieting stuff here.

    The cycle has to be recognized. By the person him/herself, not by some outsider imposing their idea of “YOU ARE” onto that person. This is why force generally doesn’t work. To me, allowing a ‘safe space” would mean allowing freedom to find out, freedom to experiment and explore the reasons why the cycle might have started. To me, “safe space” means not imposing ideas, but being safe to ask questions and share ideas. Safe to say, “me too,” or safe to say, “this is how it feels for me.” To me, “safe space” means safe to try new foods you have never tried before, or what you might be afraid to try, and safe to find out what you like or do what works for you.

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  • Matt, Can I suggest a pill for these delusions? I can suggest a budget version (since folks are concerned about price of vitamins). You can even buy these on food stamps. M&Ms. Only certain colors, though. And avoid generics. The dosing isn’t right on those. I can write you a script. Be careful, these can be habit-forming, and might have side effects. Let me know if the delusions go away.

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  • Richard and others,

    Yes, very true, to assume that anyone who walks into a therapist’s office has been child-abused is a reductionist attitude. It is so wrong, so harmful. I can tell you many people have approached me privately and told me, “Me too.” They, too, were harmed because they were told they had abusive parents and they didn’t. Their therapists assumed and never even asked! Geez! And this takes years to undo. Look what happened to Justina. Automatically, they assumed. Even now, I have had people come up to me and say, “But you MUST have had abusive parents.” But I did not. You simply cannot assume. I know it is hard given the world we live in to imagine a mental patient who comes from an okay family. We are brainwashed to believe that all people who end up in the System must have had horrible parents. The media teaches us this. Sadly, this is untrue. The reason for people ending up in the System is CONTACT WITH MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL and nothing else. This is why in countries where they don’t have mental health professionals, there are fewer people with diagnoses, not that this says anything about suffering.

    I remember about ten years ago, I went to a reputable therapist. She immediately tried to put words into my mouth, trying to find things wrong with my upbringing. Trust me, they all did this. All of them. Fishing for problems, when there were NONE that were that so serious as to be any justification (in their eyes) to warrant a cocktail and years and years of disability and incarceration. None. These were invented nonsense.

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  • Tabita, I read your book, mostly because I survived an ED, too. I voluntarily took myself to therapy when I was living away from home at age 23. The year was 1981. So I was not a child then. Like Rebeka, I tried to tell them, but my ED was ignored. My only choice at that point, to get “seen” at all, was to tell these doctors I had other problems since they were ignoring the ones I had. Sadly, they finally accepted me. The result was 34 years of false diagnoses, and they continued to ignore my ED the entire time. The solution was to get away entirely, ditch my multiple drugs and diagnoses, and solve the ED on my own, finally, as a senior.

    I love your book, especially the part where you describe Rebekah taking on the various diagnoses AFTER she is assigned them. Or, at times, she finds diagnoses for herself, then, gets these characteristics. I saw this so much in nutshouses over the years. A person is called bipolar, then, becomes bipolar. A person is called schiz, then, becomes that. Or…sometimes, rejects the diagnosis, but this didn’t happen much, and it was called noncompliance and frowned upon. Peer pressure kept us compliant.

    In extreme cases, a therapist can produce a diagnosis in a person. I call this diagnosis abuse. I have seen patients jerked around by therapists who change the diagnosis this way. I love the way you illustrate this in the beginning chapters of your book, where you show how Rebekah changes as she takes on different roles, almost as if she were taking on acting roles.

    This was so much like what the mental hospital was like. I wish so much that people understood this.

    Julie

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  • While I do not ever agree with reductionism, I also feel that nutrition is usually ignored or downplayed. When it comes to ED, guess what is done in the ED treatment centers? You are forbidden to discuss food! Yep, forbidden. You are told that discussing food will trigger other patients. You are also told that “owning a scale is a disorder.” It isn’t. Then, many people get this extreme fear of scales and fear of weighing themselves or knowing their weight. Or even fear of all numbers. So now, you are forbidden ever to mention any numbers. You can’t say, “I am twenty-seven years old.” That’s a no-no, since you said a number. Yes it goes to very bad extremes.

    They also tell you that if you disobey them, this Devil named “Ed” will get you. This Devil person is named Ed as acronym for “Eating Disorder.” This ploy is a scare tactic to keep patients obedient. So if you question them, they’ll say, “Don’t question, that doubt in you is Ed talking.” They’ll even tell the parents of patients that “Your daughter has another person inside named Ed who is telling her what to do.” In other words, they tell parents their daughter is POSSESSED by a devil. Yep, young girls now possessed by devils named Ed. And this is a standard of care, this Ed business. “Don’t do that, Ed will get you!” They’ll tell you you’re married to Ed, and to “Get Ed out.”

    Go to ED treatment sites and you’ll see this, they’ll tell you they do psychodrama and have people “talk to their eating disorder” as if it is this Ed person. If the patient is male sometimes they’ll say he’s married to Ana or Mia. “Talk to Ana,” they’ll say. And they’ll have these stuffed animals you have to talk to.

    That is what I walked away from. And people are still there, being harmed by this, wondering why these kids have grown into adults and are still not getting better. Many die.

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  • Richard and anyone else,
    If a person goes to a therapist, why is the initial assumption “early childhood abuse”? What if this assumption is incorrect? Man I am so tired of this!!!! I am not the only one who has been seriously harmed. Why not listen instead! I have had so many people come to me and tell me they were so badly harmed by these ED treatment centers or ED therapists, and they are still traumatized by this abuse.

    I am not one of those who was convinced or had inserted memories of ritual abuse. However, I can recall “group therapy” where many others had been genuinely child abused. I had not. So I was supposed to tell some similar story, and I didn’t have one. What now? They tried to get me to tell one! “Oh, you must have something….” They would find anything, anything at all to nitpick.

    One day they got my parents into group therapy and said my dad was “disordered” because my dad had taken out a pocket-sized notebook and his usual mechanical pencil (he was an electronics engineer) and the therapist told him to put the notebook away.

    They told me being Jewish was a disorder by default. Being a good student must be a disorder. Going to a liberal arts college was a disorder, and being a music major, that, too, was a disorder. You have a wrong brain, a musical brain that by default isn’t right. And being female, that was disorder, being born at the wrong time.

    They might as well have killed me. So in response, I sacrificed 34 years of my life. This did nothing to help my ED.

    Just because I had an eating disorder, they assumed incorrectly all along, and this did much harm. Don’t assume. Many who have ED were NOT abused in early childhood, and to automatically assume does very bad harm to individuals and their families. I will do anything at all to get my family back, to undo that harm that was done.

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  • Salt is a different product around the world. In some countries, table salt is not sodium chloride alone. It has potassium chloride in it, and also, fluoride salts. They do this instead of fluoridating the water. When you buy imported products you should be aware of this. It may, or may not list “salt” among the ingredients. It could be loaded with salt and still not list the salt. And also, the salt may or may not be sodium chloride alone. It might be any number of salts including the fluoride. We cannot control this between countries and we don’t really know when it says “salt” what type of salt.

    I survived the drug lithium. My kidneys got badly damaged. To ensure that I stay alive I made the decision to stay away from sodium such as salty food. Normal functioning kidneys should be able to handle salt but mine can’t. Yes it was a crap shoot for me, since unlike most damaged kidneys, mine need extra fluids, not fluid restriction, but by trial and error I figured it all out. I also discovered 99% of nutritionists do not know a thing about handling lithium survivors since we tend not to survive!

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  • Elizabeth, I agree with the others here.Some may find their lives regular and boring but that is a rather subjective statement. If a person is unemployed vs employed is that person’s life “regular”? I thought “regular” referred to the bowels. Or maybe it refers to the workplace shifts. Or when a person has sex.

    I don’t think depression or any other struggle comes from “regular and boring lives,” on the whole. I honestly never met anyone in the nuthouse who showed up because their life was “too easy.” I saw people who lacked passion and motivation, people who “felt dead inside,” but often that was because their passion had been stolen by some sort of harm, often drugs or repeated psych incarceration. I saw an awful lot over the decades.

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  • Richard, Often the diet comes first, then, the person’s presentation as disturbed increases as a result of the diet. The reasons for dieting are the same as anyone else’s. Many wish to diet for many reasons, and many wish to disappear, too. All this worsens if you are starving.

    I am highly skeptical of “leaky gut.” But I do believe that if you are starving, the cycle will continue for a long, long time, and it’s a very hard one to break. It’s so hard that anything that LOOKS like psych will likely be called a psych disorder even though it comes from malnutrition. I have seen it happen first hand, and unfortunately kids are literally so starved they cannot fight back nor argue.

    Here’s a straight-forward example. When you aren’t eating enough, you also cannot possibly take in enough fluids. You are inevitably dehydrated even if you drink enough. This means no matter what, you are at risk for electrolyte imbalance. If you have ever known anyone with low sodium or electrolytes that were not right (say, at a sporting event, which happens sometimes) they can barely stand up, they might faint, or even lash out, or talk nonsense. This is the condition many kids are in. Now…Do these kids need shrinks, or immediate medical attention? What happens is that in that state the get diagnoses. All kinds. Obsessive compulsive. Depressed, psychotic, you name it. It’s easy to talk these kids into it, and their unfortunate parents, too. These diagnoses stay on record, too. The drugs do so much harm, it’s unbelievable while in medically compromised state. A person my age with ED risks being locked up forever mistaken for having dementia.

    Many people have trauma in their lives. But ED is a very serious medical condition. I can tell you the physical effects of starvation will kill a person no matter what the reason.

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  • Dee, passion is free. I think we need to focus on what won’t take money since of course the Establishment has so much more! Yeah, the paid ads, and those that do the testimonials….ugh, yeah and they’re even doing “training sessions” for patients, telling them how to present themselves for the media.

    I can only say to that, “Hey, I think my 34 years as prisoner was enough, I need no more training.” I recall a recent response to that was, “Well we want a unified voice.” This sure sounds like a red flag right there.

    I applied to blog for an organization but they turned me down, saying “we know you are telling the truth, but we hire you, young people will decide against going to treatment.”

    I guess they put their feet right into their mouths there.

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  • What I happen to be doing, RIGHT NOW, pretty much because I don’t know anything else to do, is to tell my story many times (I do not reblog, I write original posts afresh, just about daily) and just let that stand for itself. People get curious. At first, nothing happened. That I know of, folks expected me to fail. They expected me to return to psychiatry. I did not. They have been waiting. I believe they got tired of waiting and have realized that it’s fruitless and it’s not going to happen. Sometimes people follow blogs hoping the blogger will die, because readers love the sensationalism. People love the riskiness. So they follow anorexia blogs and want to read about what the person weighs, etc. Yeah it is dumb but that happens. They want skinny pics, too.

    I got followers back around 2010 for that raason, but I didn’t post pics and I didn’t want people following a disease. I pissed them off when I started saying I am not mentally ill, a few years later. Lots of my followers said, “Oh yes you are!” and I suppose sensationalist followers want miserable failure. They didn’t get that.

    I just keep going. Some still get pissed. I learned in writing school that when you get a reaction like that, it’s probably a good sign. If I didn’t, then I’m not really saying much.

    My object is to tell folks maybe there’s another way. there are so many dimensions, unexplored ways to see the story. I can say I have the right to change my mind. I changed my mind about many things. I am thrilled that I have the capacity and ability to remember and write down tons of that story, too. Not only that, I find it enjoyable, and my duty to continue to do so.

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  • After I left psychiatry I knew by gut instinct that ED was not a psych disorder (not that anything is!) and that it was in a classification on its own. I felt that we ED’s (as we sometimes called ourselves) were barking up the wrong tree by going to therapists and psychiatrists in the first place. Why were these folks heading up our “teams”? Why were the nutritionists not the forerunners of the teams? Why did the usual ED “treatment” make very little sense,and yet, this was the standard protocol, endorsed by these big businesses, claims to work, and obviously makes kids very sick, turning them into permanent patients? Outcomes are very poor, AN has very poor “recovery rate.” Suicide is high for AN, very high for BN as well. BED, they don’t even have data on! I can’t believe after all these years they’ve finally figured out BED is a problem! They’re in the dark ages and very few activists even care about ED and human rights. The rights violations are so bad, so few get out and so few alive to talk about it right now……

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  • Human being, I tried everything I could think of. Not one of the “pat answers” worked and it certainly is not due to anxiety. Not sleeping is rather consistent for me, I could go to a doc right now, leave out the psych drug history and for sure it would be dxed as narcolepsy, which is a sleep disorder, not a psych disorder, and they say it can be from chemicals such as drugs you are given. Also they say it’s incurable, but I don’t believe it. Also, caffeine helps! I used caffeine pills and it was like a miracle, coffee too, even cacao. And they say to avoid it. But stopping it wasn’t a good idea for me. I needed to end the mini-sleeps I was getting. I am amazed that I sleep better at night. Yeah it is a crap shoot figuring this stuff out.

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  • Well I have a couple of questions after reading this.

    #1. Just for myself. I have what seems to be permanent inability to sleep, at all, as a result of long term use of psych drugs. Any solutions? I believe this was damage to my brain. I have been hoping my brain, being plastic, would repair by now. I hasn’t. I see no evidence of improvement. I am unable to sleep at all, nor sustain sleep, nor sleep during any time of day at all. Not without external intervention, which I finally caved in to without having to see a doctor.

    #2. This has not been mentioned yet in comments. Elizabeth, do you have any answers to eating disorders, or, as it is sometimes called, “disordered eating”? I voluntarily took myself to therapy in 1981 due to this problem. I had anorexia and binge eating both. These were ignored for the next 30 years. In order to be seen at all, i had to claim I was suffering from other maladies, so I ended up falsely labeled with these for life. I left psychiatry behind in 2014, much to my benefit. I know many who are hoping for a real answer to ED, not this hocus pocus they hear from the specialists, who don’t know very much. The kids generally don’t listen to me, though they find me an interesting novelty, I suppose.

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  • Oldhead, Let’s look at a demand that was narrowed down well enough and worked well.

    The problem was segregation. Well this was the idea. The idea is clear and simple. Easy to understand why it is something to object to. But how to tackle it?

    Segregation had to be dismantled, but couldn’t be dismantled in one blow. So it was taken down as a house might be taken down beam by beam. “We object to segregation on the bus.” This was then narrowed down to “Segregation on the bus system in Montgomery, Alabama.” This was now a focused effort. A set number of people could now do this, organize, and plan a strike in Montgomery.

    Furthermore, at this time, the SCLC was set up, and amazingly fast, too. The organization was ready-made. Amazing that the churches were already there, already organized, already had trained leaders, too. A church community is a perfect number of people, so the number of people were subdivided to ensure the numbers were not too large so as to be unmanageable.

    To get folks motivated, within each church community, this, too, was a ready-made situation. The churches had their passion already within the gospel, which….and is relevant to us all…this had been the music of the slaves. Directly passed on and passed on through the genrations, now motivating folks to fight segregation and fight for human rights.

    So can we use this motivation, this passion we had within us when we were slaves, locked up in nuthouses years ago, to fight right now what we rightfully deserve?

    We were slaves…We cannot let this go on. May no more be locked up as we were. We know that locking people up is wrong. Can we do this? Can we end this imprisonment once and for all?

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  • Same thing, I have no tolerance for noise. Boom boxes, television especially, loud stereos, loud Muzak that plays in the mall (so I really can’t stand malls), and if I am on the bus I can’t stand the loud conversations. I wish I could tell people the effect their loud cellular telephones have on me. “Please turn off Walkie-Talkie mode!” Why do they do that if they’re not hard of hearing? I have gotten off buses early and gotten on the next bus just to get away! If I live in a home the footsteps up above sound like CRASH CRASH CRASH. That sounds to me like torture. I am grateful forever for insulation. God bless whoever invented it. If the bus engine is loud since that causes the passengers to shout. Screaming kids, especially squealing teenage girls, they are capable of screaming louder than than any human being should ever tolerate. Ear plugs do nothing, unfortunately.

    The solution? I never say anything. I have tried, and it only gets me labeled with a disorder. I have found the the best thing is to get away from the noise, saying nothing. Just quietly leave. I don’t even bother with lengthy explanations that no one will ever understand.

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  • AntiP anyone can call themselves “Human Rights.” Who is paying them? Whom do they work for? On behalf of whom? Whose rights are they really protecting? If they claim to be protecting rights, look into whose rights, or the rights of whose money, and then, you’ll see if they are protecting your rights or working in your interest, or not.

    If you want someone truly interested in human rights then look to an outside source or one who is not paid to remain partial or biased. Unfortunately these folks are hard to find.

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  • Looking back on history, people who assisted people in escaping the Nazis were called Holocaust Rescuers. They were breaking the law (the Nazi law) and risking their lives and safety. They were later thought of as heroes. Many later wrote books on their experiences. I remember one I read. This was written by a woman who stated that she did this out of common sense, feeling that she had to do what she knew was right. This speaks to the fact that human rights are self-evident.

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  • I believe that if we examine other groups that were extremely effective, we see that they used nonviolent means to get what they wanted. They were persistent, and consistent with their message. Being well-organized is also important. I think one of the things we need to do on the ideological side is to simplify the backbone argument so that it is easily explained. We shouldn’t have to get out charts and graphs and academic textbooks. We should be able to explain this to taxpayers, laypeople, and even those who have had no exposure to the system. Why should the layperson (person with no prior exposure) care deeply about this issue?

    Secondly, we need to make very specific and practical demands. These, I believe, and each demand could even be locally focused. The demands would be backed by our clear and simple and self-evident ideology. Then, I think we would increase in numbers, so many the structure and powers that currently exist would lose money, lose power, lose all public and taxpayer support, and be forced to give in.

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  • BetterLIfe, It seems like it completely depends on the individual situation. In general undoubtedly the position of “advocate” had best stay silent. However, there is a clear difference between “advocate” and “activist.” An advocate can range from “access to treatment” folks, or “patient advocates” such as folks who help you choose the “right” doctor. An activist in the antipsychiatry realm focuses on human rights, and might speak out against force. . You might be working with attorneys, or making a lot of calls to your legislators. Then, identifying as past patient won’t ruin your credibility.

    You might be both, too, but there can be conflicts between roles. It would present many difficulties.

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  • The metaphor, illustrated in literature is the caged bird who is freed, then flies back into the cage. Is it habit? Is it a feeling of safety or familiarity? Or the only world the bird knows? Is it where the food and water are? Is it where the bird feels nurtured? Does he call the cage home?

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  • So often people used to come up to me and say, “I’m sorry for your pain.” I never quite knew whose pain it was. I am NOT in pain. I feel joy to tell stories and have the ability to do so.

    I tell people, “I am not in pain. Do not accuse the storyteller. However, if my story causes you to feel sorry upon hearing it, then you need to examine YOUR pain, and whatever is going on in your life that causes you such pain. Please do not accuse me of feeling what I do not feel. Please do not project an illness on me that very well may be yours.”

    I think therapists project their own problems onto their patients and play out their own childhood abuse issues onto their subjects. On and on.

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  • If you truly see those you treat as having these defective brains, or irretractible chemical imbalances without any wiggle room or question or possibility that maybe that’s not true, then you are doing your patients a disservice. It is a crime. Every time you tell a patient, “You will have to be in treatment for the rest of your life,” that is a crime, because as a professional, you speak to that patient and that family from a voice of authority, and the patient (and family, if present) are all suffering and vulnerable. So when speaking as God-like hero, and speaking as healer, your word has such clout, diagnosing the patient and proclaiming that patient permanently deranged, this is a terrible crime. It changes a person forever, it changes the course of that person’s life, harming that person horribly. These doctors believe they are healing, and they never realize the harms. Many see themselves as saviors of mankind. It’s so sad. They don’t realize that in a few years, or even a few months, whatever supposedly permanent condition that patient is in might simply go away on its own.

    Many times a patient shows up in terrible shape and the attending doc has no perspective on the situation. Often times, especially in crisis, these doctors have no idea of the timeline. I hear so often from people that they have felt suicidal for 20 minutes and then, go to an ER, and while there, the feelings dissipate before they are even seen, but they end up incarcerated for two months! Conversely, I know people who fall between the cracks and bypass the System altogether. They may or may not be nut cases and the professionals out there will never know, nor care. They won’t be on the books. Because they haven’t walked into a shrink’s office. They have not been “seen.” Who knows, that might be your coworker, or you. Anyone who walks into the office of an MH professional can get a dx. Standing invitation.

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  • I would suggest, as starters, listening and caring instead of diagnosing. I would suggest listening and caring if a person asks for help. Right now, if a person goes to an ER as a psych patient, what happens? You get a security guard, you get your stuff taken away, you get strip searched, you get locked in a room and that’s it. Maybe ten minutes of talking to someone who has their other hand on a panic button, who treats you like you’re a subhuman “thing.” You have to sign a paper and no matter what, you lose your rights anyway. You might get a phone call, one phone call, but that gets monitored. Lower than the animals. I don’t even call that medical care, it’s an atrocity, it’s torture.

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  • The MH System teaches dependency, encourages continued dependency, and wouldn’t be able to sustain itself if its subjects didn’t remain dependent and addicted to it. This is its “Guild Interest,” as R Whitaker points out. This is across the board, in psychiatry and psychology (psychiatry’s stinking armpit) both, spanning throughout the realm of psychotherapy. They call it “help.” Watch out for those “free” 800 numbers! If it’s professional mental help it is the worst four-letter word out there. It should be avoided, probably banned. It is a danger to the human species.

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  • Darius, These doctors and the institutions that support them (insurances and the like) know very well that patients and their families are going to be too exhausted to sue. They have a way of delaying any lawsuits, encouraging patients to try the in-house route first, which is never fruitful since it’s a conflict of interest and “house” wins and the patient is back at square one. The “two years” was deliberate of course. They know exactly what they are doing. I belong to malpractice groups and we have seen the tendencies. These doctors have studied the malpractice statistics, too, and they back themselves with money and lawyers so it’s a win/win situation for them.

    The key to getting away with medical mal is knowing how to lie after they have knowingly harmed patients by changing the diagnosis to something new to explain away the damages, which is so commonplace, it’s a joke. If you can do this seamlessly, the patient won’t even know it has happened. Or by the time the patient (or observer, such as family or spouse) figures it out, too much time has passed. It’s so clever, it even pays. Perfect crime.

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  • I object to the very first sentence here, in fact, the title. “Professionals….” Listen, they need to all go to some hellhole somewhere to discuss their eugenics and racism, and keep it there. There is only one legitimate issue that one might consider “mental.”

    “I don’t feel well.”

    And if someone does not feel well, or if a loved one does not feel well, or is out of sorts, maybe we gotta ask. Caring…how’s that? And stop all this misunderstanding. And stop locking people up. And stop excluding people and shoving away like they’re some piece of worthless dirt. There is no pathology. That’s for a laboratory. That is a disease, like the flu or cancer. Keep that word in the lab, unless you wanna keep treating people like lepers.

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  • I think we need to do a grassroots nonviolent method, but this has to be unified and well-organized. We can be extremely passionate about what we do without using violence. Art, music, writing, and poetry are extremely dangerous to them, yet these are nonviolent means. Freedom of speech scares the heck out of them. Our pens are incredibly dangerous. Our stories are so powerful. I’d say far more powerful, telling the truth of our experience, than any physically violent means out there. The truth will unlock the doors. The truth can be understood by all, it is simple, it is the elephant in the room

    No one should be locked up simply for asking for help. Is that enough?

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  • Oh yeah, Desire for Approval Disorder, that’s definitely a product of either the System, or a product of being in academia too long, which is yet another System, the school system. Remember who designed public schools. The government, who knows better than its constituents, that divides us according to whom it decides is okay, and who among us is not. Psychiatry has been a useful tool for a century now, to scour off the scum of society, and eliminate it, imprison it, delete it, send it into exile, torture it, experiment on it, or correct its sinful ways. Shall we continue to seek approval from such leaders who are in the business of segregating, dividing, and killing? Or shall we approve and embrace ourselves, right now?

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  • The most harmful therapy format I ever endured was psychodrama, on the whole. They say that what matters is the therapist, not the therapy venue. that is, the method doesn’t matter very much, but the personality of the therapist matters a lot more, and the connection with the therapist. However, I can say that psychodrama when done on me was always done abusively. Two of these therapists did it. They both had terrible boundaries. One was manipulative, on a power trip, very controlling and abusive. She used the psychodrama to get what she wanted out of her patients. I cannot look at a stuffed animal now without remembering that awful experience and cringing. Therapy with adults should not be like kindergarten.

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  • John I read Beware the Talking Cure which outlines the various harms that can come from therapy. The thinking is very much the same as my own. For a long time I have been concerned about the number of people who become addicted to therapy. Originally they are independent thinkers,, but after they become engaged in therapy, they are then unable to think for themselves. This process of turning to experts, and now assuming that expertise lies outside of themselves is a tough one to break, if not impossible. At this point, the duality is set, Us and Them, Treators and Those That Are Treated, caused by therapy, not by pills at all. Yes you can get this way without taking one pill. After therapy, independence is lost totally. I see people unable to make decisions, turning to parents, turning to gurus, dependent on religions, dependent on AA sponsors, turning to online advice, dependent on social workers, doctors, anything. And breaking the dependency hurts, it’s painful, like leaving a religious cult. You have to undo the worst brainwashing ever done to you. It is caused by the System, and it is harder than getting off pills.

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  • Some staff in the nuthouse told me my hair looked like Cousin It. “Why don’t you get it away from your face so we can see you in group? All we see are those glasses…” But I was ashamed of the Lithium pimples, so……..

    Probably the Addams Family members all knew better than Staff anyway.

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  • Until I saw this article I hadn’t even realized the class had started. I had asked Tina about the class and she said something about the “second round” and said she would be back in touch. I have been waiting to hear back. She assured me it would be mostly survivors, which is a relief to me. Finally we are honored as experts, not those haughty know-it-alls in offices who in fact, ruined so many people’s lives.

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  • I don’t know how many people are reading this right now but I thought I would post this here rather than the forums (which seem kinda dead). I think this and other posts by new survivors, that is, people who were newly psychiatrized and new to the Movement indicate to me that we as a Movement need to have a strong presence on college campuses. I, too, sought “help” as a college student. I didn’t know where to go. Nowadays, all colleges have “counselors” and these are the new gateway to the System. Many refer either to the U Health Service or, if the college is small, to an outside psychiatrist. There have been so many issues with these U Health Services and the counseling services. There are confidentiality issues, kids get kicked out, parent issues, financial issues, problems to do with denial of scholarships, and more. I think colleges will welcome speakers if we can get some speakers together. If only I had known about the pitfalls of ending up labeled for life back when I was a college student, but I did not know. I was a promising music composition student at Bennington College, very close to graduation. I had managed to keep my eating disorder secret. Like Emily, I was confused, had no clue what the dangers would be. During the summer I voluntarily walked into a therapist’s office which turned out to be the worst mistake of my life.

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  • Also, you can definitely trust the Freedom of Mind Center. I know who runs it. He is a cult survivor, survivor of the Moonies just like me, who is trying to warn other people about brainwashing religious cults. I actually met this man way back in 1979 when he was much younger. He is also not a fan of the DSM!!! Steven and I have discussed this at length and I am a fan of his extensive anti-cult research. My hope is to use his work and link his work on cults to compare the brainwasshing done in cults as IDENTICAL to the brainwashing done to people, drugs or no drugs, in the mental health system. This includes much of what we know as “therapy.” This brainwashing is done mainly without drugs but by breaking a person down, isolating that person, and then, handing the person a new ideology. That’s what the MH System does. That is what cults do. That is what brainwashing is. it works and it is effective. It is hard to undo.

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  • Hi, I attended the workshop given by the folks from the Sunrise Center. My feelings were mixed. For one thing, the entire method was based on the “success” of the first success story, and then, built upon that success of one person. Well, this may have worked for one person, but that’s only one. I was okay with it, said nothing, and then, they said, “You have to keep coming back.” That’s where they lost me. I said nothing, but I was extremely skeptical after that. I felt that anything that “You have to keep coming back and doing it” seemed cultish to me. This DOES include many religions and pseudo-religions that rope people in and demand more and more time and money, and literally steal people’s lives. This does include therapy, day treatment, various therapy programs, yoga retreats, cults, gurus, various mediation-type stuff, and other miracles that aren’t really miracles, they only rob us in the end. I wasn’t sure. I asked these folks to contact me, or put me on their mailing list. I asked them to read back my email address to ensure they had it right, but I guess they decided to take me off of it after all. Maybe I was just too much of a skeptic. I am a survivor of a dangerous cult called the Moonies, in 1979. They still exist. Look it up. I am honestly not sure but I have resources I can check.

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  • I can’t believe I missed this. David Brendel is the doctor whom I saw who tried to put me in State after I was found to be blogging about patient abuse. He is the one who made the decision that I was “dangerous.” I had no clue why they thought I was dangerous, not at the time. However, Brendel, whom I had known, in fact, for years, knew about my blogging, and didn’t see me as violent at all, He saw me as dangerous for one reason and one reason only: my pen. And for that reason, they tried, many times after I got my MFA in Creative Writing (2009) to have me either put away for good, or drugged so heavily that I could no longer write. Aw, too bad, they never managed to do it. Thanks so much. I found this article while searching for a patient review on Brendel, my old “pal,” wanting to write one up myself.

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  • Thanks for sharing your story. Coming out has to be done very carefully. I think it can only be done effectively AFTER you have gained a certain amount of trust. You wouldn’t tell a complete stranger much personal information beyond your first name to begin with. Maybe the town where you live, but not your exact address. Maybe your occupation, but not exactly where you work. Later, you may mention where you eat lunch, and say, “Hey, wanna have lunch sometime?” While eating lunch, you might mention you divorced a few years back.

    You would NOT say upon meeting someone, “Hey, I miscarried three months ago.” Or, “I wear a size ___ bra.” Or, “I was adopted.” Right? So likely you wouldn’t say, “I was in a mental hospital a few years back.”

    After you and your new buddy like each other a lot, and your new buddy trusts you, and you trust your new buddy, then, you say, “You know that hospital up there? See that one? Guess what? See that window up there? Yeah, that’s a mental hospital. That was my room. Right there. I had the best view of the whole city.”

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  • Darius, Your music is beautiful! I would love to incorporate it, with your permission, into my live presentation I do called Behind Locked Doors. I, too, was a music composer prior to my entering the System. I wrote frequently for cello, simply because at the peak of my composing years I was surrounded by many wonderful cello players. I would love to hear more of your music.

    As I read your piece all I could think was that this is so cut and dry, so clear what the damages are, and so clear what the cause was that you could sue and win if you could get a attorney. Lawyers often refuse cases if they are too complex since they hate paperwork. Or they refuse if they can’t pinpoint damages in dollars and cents. But the timeframe is relatively short, the damages obvious, your parents also lost a lot, you gave up your college education, you were clearly headed for success and this doctor prescribed totally inappropriately and didn’t pay attention when you reported difficulty. Is this not gross malpractice?

    Why on earth do these professionals just wash their hands clean like that? What are we? Dirt to cast aside? Nothing? Filth? Things? Have they no regard for the humanity they serve?

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  • We are at varying stages of leaving that old world behind. This mean varying degrees of safety from it. As I left that old world behind, I got safer and safer from it, breathing a sigh of relief at last, and I must say, the fear does fade. i know I still feel the effects of trauma. I still have a lot of trouble trusting people. I flinch upon hearing a siren. Still. But now, I laugh a lot, and the nightmares stopped. I can safely do many things I couldn’t do before. I can use my real name. My name is EASY because everyone has it anyway. Five of me in every USA city!

    I cannot state my location. That I keep to myself. Others can. We are at varying degrees of how private we must remain, because for some, we have other demons to face that may be linked to the System somehow. It is a matter of common sense, not a matter of how committed we are to a cause. We must remain vigilant.

    I feel much safer now. Last night I did a Toastmasters speech about antipsychiatry. I do not see well anymore, but I was thrilled to see jaws dropping, eyes wide open, heads nodding, almost in unison along with what I was saying, especially when I said, “No one should be locked up.”

    That felt very good.

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  • I was taken off in 1996. I can’t say I had any change in my moods as they were already human enough. I was already on Tegretol anyway. I actually did not want to get off the Lithium at the time. Either way, the damage was already done, as I found out. The DI turned out to be permanent. The kidney failure happened many years after I got off lithium, but definitely was from that drug. My kidneys were slowly failing over the years. Oh, don’t expect your docs to be honest about it, either. Mine were not.

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  • Hi cat, I was also PRESCRIBED three antipsychotic drugs, all at the highest doses. These simultaneously, and at the same time, three anticonvulsants. I was not violent nor manic nor psychotic. Looking back, I think they noted that I wasn’t “responding to treatment” (because they never addressed the problem to begin with!) and so, they kept piling on the drugs.

    I am lucky because getting off that “cocktail” wasn’t too hard. What is harder, in my opinion, is shaking off overall reliance on physicians and others (including alternative practitioners) to boss us around, in other words, appointment addiction. If you are very hooked on appointments your entire outside social life (if you had one) erodes and disappears, so in throwing off the appointments you’re left with zero for a while. it’s very hard to find truly decent friends, people who accept you and aren’t users. Some communities and groups are extremely hostile and closed-minded. You just have to keep looking. Finding friends and a decent and affordable place to live, for me, was so much harder than anything to do with drugs, although it’s possible that economics (not having enough money) certainly made all those challenges ten times harder. I stay far from doctors’ offices and that, I think, is key to staying healthy.

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  • Force is larger than tying a person to a bed, although that is an example of force. Also is forcing a person to attend AA or any forced therapy. Or invading the person’s privacy, such as forcing a bathroom door open and forcibly watching the person while he or she is doing whatever people do in bathrooms. Forcing a person to disclose private matters is also force. “Where have you been? What have you been doing? Who are you with?” Threats can also be force. “If you do not comply, I will send the police to take you to the hospital.” Contacting family members against one’s will could also be force. And just plain ole bossing a person around, “You MUST give up your bathroom scale and to prove you’re not lying, you have to bring it to me.” The forced weigh-in, whether done blindly or not, is force. Tube-feeding is rape, if it is inserted and kept in against the person’s will and done via force (security, or threat of use of Security if patient refuses to comply). Using force, and then calling it “care” is extremely confusing, contradictory, traumatizing and invalidating for those who have it done to them.

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  • I am not sure what I said was clear. I am more against incarceration than I am against anything that psychiatry does to people. This includes drugging. Psych incarceration in the #1 worst thing a person can endure, because it is not a hospital, it is imprisonment. Not only that, the patient is tricked into thinking it is a hospital, but is locked in. This is a horrible thing to do to a person who gets no trial, no jury, no judge, doesn’t get an informed choice (isn’t told ahead of time) isn’t told the real consequences nor how long the stay will be, gets his rights taken away, can’t communicate with the outside, and often, loses his job, loses housing on the outside, and his entire reputation as well as a result of the incarceration. Upon returning to the community he may find his life is never the same.

    This is a crime, and should never be done to a person. Never. It has nothing to do with “medical care.” it has no relation to “stigma” and no relation to an “illness.” It is a crime done to a person as an act of power. If I had my way I would do everything I could to stop it now.

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  • Liz I agree that many times psych professionals see violence in kids and conclude it comes from dysfunction in the family. I can’t understand why they automatically jump to this conclusion since temper tantrums are extremely violent and can reoccur at any time. When a kid’s hormones hit the roof during adolescence (science doesn’t really understand this too well) then it’s very possible for teens to have tantrums, too. Who hasn’t seen someone throw a cell phone at a wall, or honk their horn in utter rage? I doubt that means a darned thing about “dysfunction” in the family. Frankly I am very sick of the knee-jerk blaming, too. My shrinks did it without even meeting my parents! They even had them all diagnosed!

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  • I am so glad I have read this article. Thanks, Sandra. You have given me perspective on what happened to me in September 2011 when I was forced into a “hospital” and then, nearly forced into State. I can only say what I am about to say with much hindsight on it all…..

    First of all, I was in some sense, committed, not via court, but by all means, against my will. I had just been horribly abused in Massachusetts General Hospital, a human rights abuse (deprived of drinking water for days, and I have diabtetes insipidus – DI, you can’t do that to folks with this kidney condition). As it turned out, I wasn’t being silent about it. I can see now, with the hindsight I have, that the MGH et al were extremely frustrated that they had been unable to convince me that it had been all “for the patient’s own good.” Nor had they been able to convince me that water deprivation was “necessary care.” What now? Obviously, the answer was forced silencing, because the patient wasn’t shutting up! What to do? While they were deciding, they forcefully locked me up in Hospital/Prison B. Meanwhile, they took measures to have me transferred to State. She ain’t shutting up yet! All that took time, due to “paperwork.” What I was told, meanwhile, was that I was being “held” at Hospital B and “cared for.”

    I knew I had no choice. Again, I recall the thoughts that went through my mind. It was early September. “I’m here. What can I do? I might as well make the best of things.” These thoughts, exactly. “Why fight it?” So there I was, rail thin, really only wanting answers, something other than being bashed by people I thought were my friends, but had turned out to be not on my side after all.

    I cried a lot. Some of the staff were wicked nice. I had no clue who was for me, and who was against me. Did anyone even care anymore? I was in this place to heal from what the other hospital did. But I was being kept at hospital B against my will. So I rationalized all that, telling myself that Hospital B was the Good Hospital, and MGH was the Bad Hospital. Only I knew it didn’t work that way.

    In the world of the nuthouse, since it is a cruel and terrible place, the only way we inmates can make sense of the fake world we live in is in terms of the Good Fairy and the Bad Fairy. We know this isn’t real, but we must force ourselves into believing it so. We make it so, to survive it all. So I did. Hospital B would erase what MGH did. Hospital B would fix it all. So I forced myself to believe that what Hospital B was doing was actually healing. I forced myself to love them. I forced myself to worship them. And that is actually how, to my utter surprise, I got better! or at least on paper…. However, unfortunately for them, they now had no provable grounds to send me to State, nothing that a judge would buy. Now they would have to silence me in some other way. They let me out on September 26, 2011.

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  • Thanks for sharing your story, and thanks to MIA for sharing a story written by an older adult (even older than me I admit, as I was born in 1958). I, too, suffered from binge eating. I am surprised they tried drugs on you at such a young age back then since usually they tried therapy and drugs were not used unless you showed up inpatient. I first went to therapy for an eating disorder and was refused drugs and had to beg for them.

    I was also given the “you are competing with your mother” line. That is a stock cookie-cutter phrase they try out on female patients. You can find that one in most of the popular women’s mags these days. I found the theory definitely didn’t fit, although I considered it. They also tried the theory about the “cold and emotionless parents” but that line did not fit, either. They tried in every way they could to blame my parents since that was the only way they knew how to do therapy, which I frankly find sad. I also found that the decades-long strain between my mother and myself was CAUSED by therapy, since the therapists were the ones who originally accused me of having a “bad mother” because they couldn’t think of anything original to say. I also felt that some therapists tended to see their own mothers faults in their patients’ mothers. I think that is called projecting. A few sessions satisfied the therapists’ needs plenty. Hmm… Thanks for sharing your story. It is an interesting journey to read about.

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  • Maybe these are not random spam comments as they appear to be, but directly from the “opposition,” as we occasionally call it, having noticed that this article and subsequent comments are clearly indicative of our insight into THEIR despicable condition. So they are trying to get the mods to close the comment section off. Nyah nyah.

    So they said we were psychotic, eh?

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  • Anne, I would ask those who have been there, those who have convened together, who have actually been through this. There are two online forums I know of, one called Benzo Buddies and the other called Surviving Antidepressants (which also covers benzodiazapines). These are actual patients and ex-patients who have been through it, not just doctors who have never experienced it who are reading stuff from textbooks. So they would know. I have spoken to these folks myself and I think you can trust them because they’ve convened and seem to have developed some good strategies. The problem seems to be that when these drugs were developed, the drug developers and doctors did not plan on taking people off the drugs, ever. They only planned on putting people on…for life. Obviously, this was poor planning! This is not the first time in history technology has gotten ahead of itself, and not the last time it ever will.

    There were certainly those of us who had the foresight to see the dangers of benzos and tried to warn the public. “Hey, the Titanic is going to sink!” But what happened? Anyone who dared say such a thing was called a heretic, a traitor.

    The government has enough of a muck right now with people addicted to opiates, and frankly I think all that stems from the medical community’s long-term gross acts of fraud and refusal to take responsibly for its actions.

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  • Maradel, again i could not find your comment right away, so I am posting here. You mentioned your experience when people see behavior problems in animals. We humans define behavior problems on human terms. So if they fail to follow human rules we define that as problematic. But is it? No, many of these problems are human problems, since we are intolerant!

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  • Yeah, Stephen. What can be said of PTS__ that was caused solely by abuse done by medical personnel while inpatient? What a joke.

    None of the friends I had prior to 2011 are my friends anymore due to to social othering. I went through a drastic personality change due to the trauma, but who will vouch for me?

    Julie

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  • Frank that’s an awesome assessment of the situation. Might I add, also, that the advent of the Internet took the APA by surprise. I know for one thing, they were concerned about their own “online presence.” Why? Because they’re corrupt, and they don’t want anyone knowing! Also, they didn’t expect the inmate population to have the wherewithal to take interest in computers and online activities. But we did! They did not want us to become educated nor have freedom of access to information, for obvious reasons. Even worse, for them, that is, we began to freely communicate between each other and communicate outside the ghettos they had made for us. All this presented serious problems for the establishment, due to their corrupt nature. As soon as they realized this, they took measures to limit us. They confiscated gadgets. They physically separated us, ending smoking rooms on wards, for instance, anything they can do to limits friendships and gathering. They tried even harder to disable us as a way to silence us with drugs and increased ECT and court-ordered methods, as well as offering token jobs just to look nice, and I believe this will continue.

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  • Yes! Same here, 1983-1984. This was on a much smaller scale, but the results were the same. I was refused disability payments. I was confused about the whole thing since the doc who evaluated me did not ask about my eating disorder, which was truly disabling me, but instead, asked rather boring routine questions about where I lived and who my family was. So since I was refused I decided to go straight to work. I was hired but ended up incarcerated soon after, for a few days. After I got out, I went back to work. I discovered they’d “found out” where I’d been. Also, I no longer had a job! I’d been replaced already.

    I went to see my psychologist and tried to confront him. He seemed to think everything was peachy keen and wonderful. I told myself he was a liar and a faker who knew nothing about eating disorders and had been deceiving me for an entire year and not helping me at all. I went home and took a bunch of pills. I lived.

    I suppose, doing so was a “statement.” Whether my intention was to die or not, that “statement” was costly to me and to my family. That’s the important part. The consequences. The fact that you are considered an subhuman animal afterward, and your friends stop speaking to you, too, which is pretty much standard. It’s odd how many are more suicidal afterward due to horrible treatment than they ever were before the “act.” And meanwhile, the confidentiality betrayal was all “justified.” In fact, they were glad to be rid of me, I suppose patting themselves on their backs for a job well done.

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  • Stephen G, If I were working that job, I would be tempted, on a daily basis, to be seriously sneaky. I hope your coworkers and the CEO of your prison (oops!) I mean fake hospital are not reading this. I’d be super “nice” one day and throw a pizza party for the staff. Lace the pizza with a whopping dose of Zyprexa, and it better be whopping. Better yet, lace it with one of those illegal horse tranquilizers. Once the staff are comatose, open the doors and let all the patients out. Run for your lives. Get everyone the hell out, and keep running. Then, the next day, when you go back to work and realize you haven’t quite done that yet, today, resolve to do it for real.

    The best escape job I ever witnessed, by the way, was a guy who did it naked. 🙂

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  • “I didn’t know you were intelligent enough…” Yeah, same deal here. I was told by several “doctors” that they didn’t think I was intelligent enough to 1. operate a computer, 2. get my degree, 3. Hmm…Was that a real degree? They ask…Oh, you had special help, didn’t you? When I tell them I didn’t, they insist that an MFA in Creative Writing isn’t a real degree, that it has no meaning, no usefulness, no practical application at all. Why don’t you bag groceries, they say, do some “supported work,” all that patients are good for. Then, I am threatened after I WRITE about my experiences, and told I must stop, or else! So the uselessness of writing (so they claimed) was enough to scare them a bit and ruffle their feathers…..As we continue to do here on MIA. Keep it up, folks.

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  • Maradel, I cannot locate your last comment on here but you mentioned gossip. Yes, true! Academic circles are very tight, so that is why gossip can spread so fast. Likewise, medical circles are like the academic circles. It’s amazing how they talk, talk, talk. And YES, they do “blacklist” patients! You bet! They “red flag” patients, of course they do! Yes they break HIPAA in doing so, all the time. Back room talk, behind the scenes. They HAVE to, or think they do, to protect their financial interests. So if a patient is a known troublemaker (i.e. let’s say, knows too much, or saw something…) you bet they “flag” that patient, to keep him/her from talking, or to keep her/him from writing or, as of late, posting on social media. In fact they were taken by surprise when they found patients were actually savvy enough to learn to use computers (like they’re the only ones with brains enough?). You bet they pass information between them. HIPAA or none. I am witness to this, I was subject to it, it was the whole reason why I was abused….and I will stand by what I am saying, even say so in court if I have to.

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  • I don’t know what NDE has to do with it. I had one. After that, the “hospital” that held me deliberately kept the vital information from me that I had “coded” while in the ER. I only found out because they accidentally gave me some of my records upon my leaving. I was livid.

    Because of what had happened, I was scapegoated. I was scapegoated in the hospital where I was medically compromised and abused there, then hated in my community upon my return, where I cried and cried alone because no one cared.I don’t think anyone gave a fuck that I had an NDE, nor cared, nor wanted me back, nor loved me at that moment. I had never in 55 years seen a worse case of societal hatred and neglect until it happened to me and nearly killed me, and they still did not give a f*ck.

    Why? Because people do not care about a mental patient. We’re worthless in the eyes of society. Great scapegoats, and if we die, big f*cking deal.

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  • No insight? It’s a basic human rights principle that no human lacks insight into their own condition. We are each the primary authorities on ourselves. However, it is my personal observation that mental health professionals sorely lack insight into the condition of their patients, and increasingly so when they assert the authority by diagnosing them with psych labels.

    This is not to say there’s no value in medicine. There is. A person can feel pain in a foot and not realize it is broken. The person may go to a doctor and tell the doctor about the foot pain, describing what he feels, which then, hopefully, gets properly diagnosed as a fracture.

    The important thing in so-called mental illness is not pain. It is not even unusual experience. It is that a person came into contact with a mental health professional. Truthfully, many of us do come into contact with those dreaded professionals due to pain or unusual experience, but not always. Then what happens? We were flat out misunderstood. We were not heard. The illness, this so-called mental illness, is that act of misunderstanding.

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  • Wow does the medicalization of spirituality sound familiar! It is so commonly done. As a kid from a Jewish family I was told I had a Jewish problem! Of course, they defaulted to that, since being who you are is a disease since your patient status means you can’t be called “normal” or they’d look like fools.

    An example of such medicalization, my most abusive therapist decided to do “psychodrama” (really, psycho-drama) and told me to imagine God was in a chair, and to put a stuffed animal in the chair to represent God. Then she said, “Talk to God.” I told her to go screw.

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  • That depends on how you apply “personal is political.” If it is used to silence people, as “think positive” very well can be used, then yes, by all means. Slogans are often used by religious cults and totalitarian regimes such as psychiatry, and are one of the hallmarks of the nuthouses. How many times did we hear various slogans there that were only used as excuses for further torture and encourage our passive acceptance of that torture?

    However, we can use their slogans and slap them in their lying, cheating faces with them. I’ve seen the same done with their HIPAA laws. The administrations love to exploit HIPAA and say, “Oh, we cannot disclose due to HIPAA.” We see that every day in the papers. Wow what baloney. I have known many savvy ex-patients who have used HIPAA to turn the tables on their ex-providers and win lawsuits, or at least get their rights and freedom reinstated.

    Likewise, the same slogans they threw at us to silence us we can now use to slap them in their lying faces. “Just like diabetes, eh?” Etc.

    As for the personal being political, I do see value in being a good person rather than being a shitty one. Simply because I was raised to be a good one, and I do want somehow to be a decent human being. It’s inconvenient to do stuff like park illegally, because you’ll end up with ticket, or towed. However, you can still be noncompliant and raise hell otherwise, because without our noncompliance, without having realized somehow that we had to say NO MORE, most of us would be alive today, right? Be beautifully rebellious, and don’t lose that.

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  • Oldhead, exactly my point. If we set good examples of living well, then isn’t personal political? Just by being decent human beings. Just by being generous and kind. Just by being alive despite all they did to us. Just by creating wonderful works of writing such as Katie has done, even under anonymity out of necessity. Because it helps us all.

    Every day, I walk my dog past a yard where apparently the homeowner had a toilet he didn’t know what to do with, so there, he placed his old toilet and it sits there as a birdbath. To amuse myself, each time I walk past, which is twice every time Puzzle and I go walking, I invent a new use for the toilet. Is it really a bird bath? Is it a Friday night can for the drunks? is it a place for forlorn squirrels to drown themselves in an act of suicide because biting the telephone wires didn’t work? Is it really a budget clothes washer?

    By the time I get home, I am laughing and joking around with Puzzle, having a good time on our walk, even though some days I feel like shit, and yes, I pick up after her. The personal is political. I’m not a nutcase anymore. I don’t look like one, I do not act like one, and no one calls me one. Nuts are for nutcrackers. Keep them in the bag or chow down on them.

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  • AntiP, My current solution is this: Live well. Wherever you are. Live well. Don’t be a label. Don’t live as if you are a mental disease, because you aren’t one, and you never were one. If you don’t want to be called a nut, don’t act like a nut. If you spill milk, good for you. Rejoice that you are human. You may very well make mistakes, and you have the right to change your mind anytime, but that does not make you anything less than human. It is your choice to cry or laugh over spilt milk, but please clean up the milk fast or it might stink very soon.

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  • That is, discrimination based on perceived disability. Because if you were doing the job, and were shut out of that job because you employer didn’t like that you had a label, then it was perceived disability, was it not? Or, if you were doing your job just fine, but missed some time from work, took sick days due to ___ but your employer “found out” that you actually were locked up in a nuthouse (who squealed, I wonder?) then if otherwise, taking time off is okay (when another would take time off, say, for the flu), it’s perceived disability, or outright loathing, or fear of a person they don’t understand, or shunning becausue they just plain hate, is it not?

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  • I personally do not define this stuff as “painful” and I am tired of hearing these TRUE FACTS described as subjective or some type of opinion or again, as our disease we have to go to yet more treatment for. NO! We do not. This is not OUR disease, nor are we somehow obligated to ourselves nor to society nor to our friends and family nor to our communities to “get over it.” I think our communities owe us an apology. I think our doctors and the institutions that backed them and called us liars or paranoid or delusional need to stop that NOW, and acknowledge that they were flat out wrong. They need to acknowledge that they made grave errors. Have we not done so ourselves? Have we not acknowledged taht it was a mistake to trust them, if we ever did? Wasn’t it a mistake to believe them? Wasn’t it a mistake to trust them, even a sliver? We have admitted our mistakes. We know how painful it is to say, “I was wrong.” Look at the lost years of our lives and at our broken families. How can they tell us to get more “treatment” when what is truly needed for us all is for them, the providers that harmed us, to face us, look us squarely in the face and say, “I’M SORRY.”

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  • Ah, but life’s a stage and we are but actors upon that stage. I used to think, “Oh, I wish my life was like that person’s life. He/she seems to be so together and happy.” But you know something? We’re all acting on that stage. We are in this together. Act. Listen: What did we do on the wards? We acted our diagnoses and got rewarded for that. Acting well got us brownie points. Now what? No staff, no fucking brownies, right? We still have a stage, we still gotta act. Some play-act happy. Do we believe these smiling faces? You can if you want.

    Just live. Don’t even think about it. Get up on that stage and sing like hell.

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  • Not only the workplace, but the workplace-to-be. As in the case of children taken before they even have a chance to finish high school. Or kids taken while still in college, prior to having a chance to start their careers. Potential employment that never ever happened. And as Katie brilliantly has stated, the government is now offering us Peer Support positions as tokenism, I suppose trying to make the genocide look just peachy keen, and also, to trap us into further silence.

    Needless to say I have applied for such positions but because I have stated plainly on all applications, “I do not believe in force nor coercion and cannot support these practices,” I am always turned down. I suppose I have been lucky in that regard.

    As I have said in other forums, Jim Gottstein has eloquently pointed out that the field of malpractice or personal injury law is not equipped to handle psych cases. This is so specialized that there needs to be a separate legal specialty for psych. I am hoping that law schools develop specialty training for future attorneys, just like they train tax attorneys, property attorneys, and elder law attorneys.

    My guess would be that these attorneys would need excellent medical knowledge, anatomy and physiology basics, knowledge of drugs, have strong ability to see different angles of situations, must have creative ability to empathetically understand a person’s motives, ability to understand coercion, be human rights oriented not “right to treatment” oriented, have full understanding of the United Nations definition of torture and of a person’s right to refuse treatment, and of every person’s innate competence. And have good ability to mediate.

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  • Yes, I have heard very sad stories about people who have been subject to cruelties who have worked in the sciences. It is indeed money-driven and power-driven. Ah, who has published papers, who has been favorited, who works for which prestigious companies and who gets the grant money and holds that precious tenure? Yes it’s a cruel world and I have heard stories told to me by those on the top who have it easy and are clueless about those who have it rough, and those kicked into the gutter who are wondering why so few “get it” and why so few can conceive of a non-career that slaps you in the face over and over.

    Source: Stories I heard from others.

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  • Very true. I am reminded of Rabbi Kushner’s work When Bad Things Happen To Good People which reminds us that the Just World Hypothesis is a false construct. We don’t deserve rose gardens.

    I wonder what would happen if we were all alike? How on earth would we, as a society, choose which one of us to pick on? Of course such uniformity only happens in science fiction. Even killing people senselessly won’t get us complete uniformity unless only one person remains.

    Is it not true that human society needs the scapegoat figure? But what if the scapegoat is not an actual person, but an idea or concept? Or perhaps something deep within each of us? I recall when I was scapegoated a long time ago, realizing that the reason was because the others hated the part of me they recognized in themselves. They didn’t hate me because I was different, but because we were painfully alike. They hated that I reflected that unsightly part of themselves right back, like a mirror.

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  • Not all of us who years ago went to therapists for advice had “narcissistic families” (whatever the heck that means). My own family was fine and I hate what MH (especially the therapists) did to us. The therapists were bigoted, they stereotyped my family, they were antisemitic, they didn’t understand, they tried to fit us into a cookie cutter when surely my parents were a cut above the rest, to be honest. They took us into the mountains, took us hiking and taught us appreciation for nature when the other parents plopped their kids in front of the TV and ignored them all day. My parents were not abusive, nor manipulative, nor addicted to anything, nor emotionally unstable. They wanted the best for us kids, and no way do I see what happened as “scapegoating” as I voluntarily took myself to therapy in the first place. It was my choice, in fact I insisted on it in an act of defiance. I thought it was the right thing to do and told my folks they were “old fashioned.” The accusations of those therapists tore my family apart, turned my brothers against me. I am heartbroken over what happened. Of course, what is the norm in malpractice? People do not like to hear that a DOCTOR or THERAPIST could do harm. OH NO! It’s so much easier to blame the victim. “It must have been an underlying family condition.” Listen real hard to this, listen to just how typical it is to excuse these therapists. Underlying condition, eh….. No, I myself was not scapegoated by my own family, though I was certainly scapegoated in other circles. Speaking for myself only.

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  • Yes, and don’t be tempted to go back!! Be careful, too! Anything that looks like a shrink called by another name IS a shrink. Even coaches, faith healers, even some that call themselves alternative, beware! Do not trust! I wish it were otherwise, but sadly, it ain’t. Beware the wolf in sheep’s clothing.

    Recently (for reasons I truly wonder now) I contacted a “coach.” I actually was figuring “career advice” but wow, I wish i had not. Right away she asked me if I had ever consulted anyone else and asked over and over about “prior diagnosis.” I happen to know that if she had a real coaching license her coach ethics would demand that she did not use DSM diagnoses. Apparently she either disregarded this or didn’t care. BEWARE!!! Of course, I used a throwaway telephone number when I contacted her, gave her no physical address, and a fake IP, just to be sure. I ended the phone conversation as soon as felt uncomfortable with her questioning, and told her I had no interest in pursuing “services.” I am reminded….Do not go back, do not be tempted. I could kick myself, even though I was playing it safe.

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  • mlk, here’s a suggestion. Being over 60, unfortunately, means the chances run high of seeking assistance from medical professionals unfortunately. We tend to accumulate miscellaneous issues by the time we’re 50 or so that may require the dreaded office visit. Given you have a “record,” here’s what I would suggest.

    End all association with psychiatrists and any mental health professionals. End all association with any medical professionals who are aware that you ever saw a mental health professional or are aware of your MH history. Now, you need to learn to be an excellent liar and an excellent actress. Never admit it to any future medical professional again. Never admit you ever saw one, nor ever say, “I was wrongly prescribed x,” because sadly, they NEVER buy that one and defer to the prescriber. Never admit you were ever in therapy. Never admit to depression, feeling blue, having insomnia, any mental history in your family, or any social problems, being addicted or having alcoholism in the family, or ever being fired or ever being sad. Or at all “disabled,” ever. Don’t let them raise eyebrows. Flat out lie. Get what you need (such as emergency help for a bee sting or poison ivy or a cast on your arm or eyeglasses) and then, get the hell out of there and breathe a sigh of relief that they did not capture you and keep you like you’re a dangerous criminal! Then, once you’re out of their clutches, laugh your butt off.

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  • Thanks, Sera. It’s my understanding that DID is not too common, as it is considered an uncommon reaction to a sort of trauma that is uncommon to begin with. So I’d assume a slim minority. I also know for sure there was a period, if memory serves me correctly, the late 1990’s, early 2000’s, when the DID diagnosis was popping up so frequently that it seemed as suspicious as “childhood bipolar.” I wondered if it was the fashion in the medical schools or something, or even becoming a default diagnosis when all else failed. In my own personal experience I have not known a person that I knew for sure was not misdiagnosed. However, I am not saying that to invalidate another’s experience. In fact, the overdiagnosis of ANYTHING discredits those that are genuine! This confuses the public totally! And it gets to the point where folks don’t know what to think.

    Let me give an example. We know that squirmy kids are given the diagnosis ADHD far too often. We are certain that this is overdiagnosed. Is it possible that a very slim minority of these kids, I mean like 1% of ADHD diagnosees have “attention issues” that might be serious enough to cause them to suffer if not heeded to? (this has nothing to do with pills) And isn’t it true the the overdiagnosis of this is harming the very few, if they exist, from being taken seriously, down the road? At the same time, those that have been misdiagnosed and given wrong treatment are also being gravely harmed. To quote my former shrinks, which honestly I hate doing, “Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.”

    Diagnosis hurts those who suffer by minimizing suffering or belittling what genuine sufferers go through by calling it a disease. Misdiagnosis causes suffering or prolongs it.

    I didn’t throw my former shrinks out completely because I kept that stupid little quote around. Otherwise, the bathwater is happily thrown out.

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  • What we must do, if we can, is to tell these stories in a way that is understood universally. This is not as difficult as it may seem. When we think about it, we can explain this in more universal terms by explaining how it felt and leaving out the qualifying judgment, since that can be extracted by the listener or reader. Of course very few have ever been in restraints, but many can relate to being misunderstood. While most have not been locked up, many can relate to feeling disempowered or trapped in a situation or knowing there’s no way out. One life story is a metaphor, which is why our stories can be so powerful, speaking to many. This is why anecdotal evidence should not be dismissed the way it often is by providers. Of course it’s just another way they love to discredit us and assert themselves as gods.

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  • Best of luck to you! I earned my MFA in creative writing and have written about ten books. I took my two published books off the market because I found out that publishing is a sham. Should you choose to publish it may work IF you can find buyers prior to book launch who swear up and down they WILL buy your book, and guarantee 200 sales or so. This means 200 friends, or 200 sales via someone rich. I’d say advertise like hell, get the sales, or hire someone who likes sales if you dislike being a salesperson.

    This is what happened to me. Due to social othering at the time the book came out, my fake friends flat out refused to buy the book. They wouldn’t even open the cover. And there it sat, gathering virtual dust. I took it off the market in disgust. I hated shoving it in their fake friend faces.

    So now i offer it for free. Because I believe it is more important to get the word out than to “sell” anything. I only want to communicate. This is vital to me. Writing is sacred. I do it because to me it is so important to tell this story and get people to hear what we have to say.

    My master’s thesis is not a book about abuse and never was. It was the culmination of a LOT OF WORK. It was so sad that it only sold, in lifetime sales, about four copies, about one copy per year. You’d at least expect my classmates to be supportive. Not. My heart was broken over that.

    so overall if anyone out there plans to write a book, remember you have to sell the damn thing, too. And if you don’t like to be a salesperson, just don’t bother. Why make a publisher rich? Even self-publishing makes the self-publishing venue rich. Do the joyful thing I am doing now. Give it away. Make people happy, and get the message across to everyone.

    My opinion based on my education and experience.

    Julie

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  • Unfortunately, many birds who are let out of their cages are frightened, and, seeing how wide the walls of the world are, run back into their cages.

    The seductive world of MH is always calling. Leaving an abusive relationship is like leaving a burning house. To go back means to die. But it was your home and inside are things you owned, many memories, and even comfort. Many are drawn back and are sucked right back in, choke on the smoke or burn in the fire. The analogy is not mine, but one I heard in a talk on domestic violence years ago.

    Sometimes I see working in the profession as taking a sneak peek back into that world because it was your life, and yes, it’s darned hard to leave that fake world behind. Even though it was cruel, it was the world we knew for many years. This is why many of us yearn to become nurses or social workers, wanting to help other people because being helpers was so highly valued. We want to be like those we admired, those god-like people we worshiped for so long and held in such esteem.

    Some indeed are suited to it, many are not. I learned the very hard way that my originally chosen field, the creative arts, is where I belonged to begin with. I also know I work best by myself, independently, boss-free, which means the traditional helping fields are most likely not the best match for me. Needless to say, a person can feel fulfilled and know they are helping other people without directly interacting with them. Doing art can fill other people’s lives with joy and wonder. (If anyone says doing creative art isn’t giving to society, and that the only legitimate work means a paycheck, or volunteering in a soup kitchen or stuffing envelopes for a charity, they can go screw. Where are people’s values? And frankly, I don’t care anymore.)

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  • Katie, that happened to an acquaintance, same thing, she was turned away prior to a heart attack. She lived.

    I also witnessed a wrongful death. The guy was sent to the psych unit when he was on the verge of a heart attack, instead of having his impending heart attack tended to. He literally collapsed during his intake interview!!! How stupid can they be? I saw the whole thing. I was not in the room at the time but I saw enough. I knew what had happened because I had been in the System, as compliant, three decades. Compliant, well, not much longer I must say! They told us he was a “regular.” Uh huh, that’s why he got profiled. Since I no longer live in the area (safe from retaliation) I have been trying to publicize this one as “witness” hoping that if there has been a lawsuit I can at least chime in, but probably the statute of limitations has passed.

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  • Yes to the supposed “dangerousness” of those of us who tell the truth. Because we’re a threat to those who can’t, or won’t, hear the whole story. Because they’re afraid that knowledge will set them free, which might be scary and painful after all. Maybe living in a slave society is easier.

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  • Yes to the denial. That it didn’t happen. Not possible. Must be some exception. Which is flat out denial, almost delusional on the part of these true believers. However, I think they’re forced into psychosis themselves, even (and especially) the providers, since their premise of our being hopelessly diseased, and nothing but burdens to society is contradictory and false.

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  • Oh wow this is so, so good. You’ve summed up the tokenism so brilliantly. The damned attitude. Yeah, that’s exactly it. The way we’re treated as soon as they know we’re diagnosees. I want to share this widely but I fear, in a way, blowing your confidentiality. I have a saying that I’ve been using lately….

    IF NO ONE SEES YOU AS A NUT, YOU AREN’T A NUT.

    I, too, used the “relocation” method and it worked fantastically. There’s a huge difference between revealing to people who are complete strangers online and revealing in person. Also, there’s a difference between people who are clinicians or mandatory reporters and those who aren’t. Those working in the field are ten times more bigoted. Even those who claim to be “different.” They rarely are, especially if they’re duplicating the System and refusing to admit it.

    I have rarely had trouble since relocating. I know all it would take would be one slip and I’d be forced to relocate again. Once I met a guy for a “date” and after that I figured he was “cool” so I revealed in an offhand way. After that he told me he never wanted to associate with me again since he feared an “untreated mentally ill person.” To be safe, I changed my phone number, but I am not at all worried. All other times I have mentioned it there have been no problems. I have actually gotten the “I left the System too,” response. BTW, I’d suggest not using Facebook at all, but I’d say by all means you were extremely wise to get that guy out of your life!

    More power to you! Wow this was so, so damn good. I always knew we were all much smarter than the people seated across from us in those offices. Keep it up.

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  • Sera, thanks for the laugh. I don’t watch movies. But I truly loved reading this. It is affirming to me, a good reason to stay away from all that nonsense.

    Those I knew who were DIAGNOSED with DID were sometimes taking it on as temporary false diagnosis. So while they were diagnosed, they temporarily became their diagnoses, whatever the DOD (diagnosis of the day) happened to be. DID isn’t very safe for the diagnosee, from what I understand, due to problems with memory loss or complications should one get behind the wheel of a car. I have never heard of a DID diagnosee being a danger to others.

    The DID as misdiagnosis is a serious danger to patients and their families, however, possibly lethal. I have known people to take on this role for many years. Sadly, the docs and therapists have a heyday with it. It supposedly requires extensive, intensive, and expensive treatment, so that makes such patients excellent commodities. The last time I saw a patient in such a predicament, a fellow inmate, it was a very very sad situation indeed. I feared she would be institutionalized for life. I wondered if she knew who she was anymore.

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  • I did look into it, Chaya, and from what I have learned when the dogs used for psych are trained the tasks are as varied as human variation in the needs that handlers may have. For instance you might have a person who is fearful but feels much less fearful if the dog “checks” an environment and there are ways that they train dogs to signal handlers that everything’s okay. It is not that hard to teach your own dog. even if it’s not a service dog to “remind” you to follow a schedule as needed, for instance, to “take pills” (ahem) or to wake up in the morning. Many people who have psych service animals also have physical challenges so when they are matched with the dog this means many tasks related to the physical challenges also. I admit I knew one or two people who have had “fake service animals” but I heard somehow they were cracking down on that. My feelings are that if a restaurant allows dogs, they let the dogs in, pets too, ultimately, and if anyone wants to complain, they will most likely do so. If everyone just gets along, cleans up, is considerate of others, and everyone is okay with everyone else, uses common sense, then we’ll all be happy.

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  • The last time I looked into peer support (I can’t even mention with whom) I was shocked to look around at the pool of applicants. How many had actual lived experience? I think me, the supervisor of volunteers, and one other. Did these other applicants not even understand what peer support is? I hope they were turned down. I saw college students looking for something nice to add to their resumes but no lived experience. One social work intern. No lived experience, again seeking stripes on the uniform. I couldn’t believe these folks were not immediately informed that they can’t even apply! Sadly, I think they were hired. I have extensive experience but was turned down from any work for them due to my Human Rights Self Empowerment approach. I am pissed off that this precious lived experience you will not find anywhere else but from a real mental case (an alive one) has repeatedly been shoved away like it is useless trash.

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  • Sometimes I wonder, too, since we matter so little, since the reality is that it doesn’t even pay to represent us legally in court, which means we are truly unwanted and devoiced, my guess is that thinking in broader terms these mass shootings represent a desperate attempt of those who were formerly forced into silence to be heard. Drugs do a good job of silencing. Diagnosing discredits a person, weakening or disempowering everything they say. Incarceration or forced appointments (keep the person busy with play-doh) also silence people. Many of us are angry over the the denial and overall refusal to believe us. Many are desperate to to be heard and believed, desperate enough to get very loud I’ll bet, if pushed to the limit.

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  • Aria, This is my guess. Those of us who have been force-disabled by drug-induced insomnia were generally long-term users of psych drugs. My guess is that most long-term cocktail-users were on the disability rolls to begin with. So who will care? So what if we’re made worse disabled? We weren’t making big paychecks. They aren’t anticipating many lawsuits from those whose lives were already wrecked to begin with. What was the monetary loss? In court, nothing. They don’t give a shit about a mental patient’s quality of life. Now you take a father of four who makes 80,000 a year and give him the exact same drug-induced narcolepsy, that will make it to the courtrooms. Especially if he blows his his head off and takes a few kids in a convenience store with him. And leaves a suicide note saying he can’t sleep and is too exhausted to work because of the drugs he was given and his life us ruined. Maybe then someone will care but no one cares about nutcases. There’s no money in it.

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  • That I know of many service dogs are yellow labs, or cross between yellow lab and golden, they were talking about that mix being a good one to work with. Neither is hypoallergenic although some people report being less allergic to yellow labs than the black ones. Black labs and German Shepherds are also used. Not one of these breeds is generally known to be hypoallergenic. You usually find only the ones with hair rather than fur, such as the Poodles and one other type (I recall one of the terriers) to be a good choice for a pet a family with an allergic child. I do not recall any laws about that in the ADA, actually. That I know of, the main concern is that they want to use a good breed that can be trained to do the service animal tasks, and some are better suited. Size is a consideration for some tasks and handler matching as well. Many are used for balance so for that I think they need a larger dog. I think I read that the retrievers do so well with their mouths, like it’s used as a hand, that they were a natural first choice.

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  • Chaya she is a Schnoodle, half Poodle and half Schnauzer. Most Schnoodles are hypoallergenic. I am not allergic myself. But this is what I was told, that people who are VERY allergic are amazed….they tell me they cannot believe they aren’t allergic to Puzzle! And I can tell you she looks “dirty” because her color is “not quite white” so no matter how clean she is she ain’t white. Because it’s not a disorder, she’s supposed to be “cream colored.” I love making that analogy just to make a joke. Maybe it’s the “cream” that makes her hypoallergenic, I dunno. Oh, she needs a haircut, too. Thus breed does not shed and for whatever reason her fur isn’t very thick. And she is extremely cuddly (which might annoy a non-dog person).

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  • I think if I had a kid and my kid was having problems in school, my first course of action would NOT be to take my kid to a psychotherapist. In fact, this would most likely be one of my last choices. Number one might be to examine the direct complaint of the child. What is bothering you? The class? The instruction? The other kids? I might also look at the home environment. I would not have a TV at home, but I’d ask if the child has been exposed to a lot of TV at another location, say, at his day care center (if he attends one) and if so, that would need to be changed. is the child exposed to too much noise? What about nutrition and what are the kids eating at school? Sometimes a good solution for some children is an older child to act as mentor, especially for those who do not have an older sibling. I’d try new activities such as new types of sports, crafts, new social outings, maybe a church group, new play group, drama club, skating, computer club, math team, taking up a musical instrument or singing, art lessons, a job working as apprentice at a lab, and basically whatever the child is good at and feels he would like to pursue further. What do you dream of and what do your really want to do? A therapist would be a last resort, unless the child specifically wanted one, and a few sometimes do. You mean you really want to be a shrink? Well, okay, but the profession is kinda crooked…..Why don’t you run for president instead?

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  • I would like to know if there are any articles out there that show the science behind why people get the most horrific insomnia from antipsychotic drugs (I was on three at once, at the highest possible doses) or pretty much from any sedating drug if taken (prescribed, ha ha) over a long period. I never needed antipsychotic drugs, at all. The insomnia I have had has been comparable to narcolepsy. I cannot describe it in any other way. This has nothing to do with “racing thoughts” nor “my mind won’t stop.” I cannot attribute it to nightmares nor “anxiety” nor does it ever change from one night to another. The only time it improves is if I am completely sleepless for a lengthy period, only then will I have improved sleep. My average, for five years, was about an hour of very light sleep, no dreams, per 24 hour period. I couldn’t believe I did not go into organ failure after that but I was going into mini-sleeps during the day, including while waiting in line at stores, while in waiting rooms, while standing or sitting on bus rides, in ticket lines, and even while walking I felt afraid I would fall asleep, nod off, and fall down. I also lost track of what i was doing and was forgetful, and couldn’t get organized, got lost in stores and lost my way frequently. I did find a solution. Caffeine. I use it to stay awake all day to avoid mini-sleeps, then, a tiny bit, subclinical sedation at night, just to get myself perhaps four hours. I can function now, but I wish I could SUE or something! And I’m wondering if the drug-induced narcolepsy is permanent or whatever. I never went to a doctor, either, I hate the whole profession and I am terrified to see an MD at all! I just figured this out by putting two and two together and doing a lot of reading. I’m very happy to be able to function at least and not worry about my safety in traffic, but it’s not ideal.

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  • Yes, and I am wondering also they have KNOWN all along that SSRI’s cause sleep disturbance. Whether they knew the precise mechanism or reason doesn’t matter. They were well aware of the association and they have known this for decades. They have also known that these sleep disturbances, plus the akathesia-like agitation (similar to to the pacing from thorazine-type drugs) either one of these could cause an agitation which could drive a person to suicide. Again, knowing the exact reason wasn’t as important as the fact that they were aware of it, well aware, and LIED. DENIED that they knew the association. And people have died. Not a few, but thousands, and tens of thousands have been put out of work and even more dealing with chronic pain issues and facing issues late in life, god-knows-what, such as impending dementia issues we don’t even know of what proportions. With even more now on these high-test stimulants, the problem magnifies further.

    I am reminded of the old Star Trek, when Captain Kirk reminded us, again and again, that there were certain realms where Man simply should not go. While it may have been amazing that the Star Ship Enterprise explored where no man had gone before, he always reminded us, often around the end of many of these short TV episodes, or Spock would, that there was a limit, that there were places where they needed to lay off. I think we’ve reached some of those places right here.

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  • Aria, I am always amazed at the lack of insight I hear about in the psych field! I cannot believe these are trained doctors and they fail to see the obvious that they were trained to see, time after time. I am amazed that they have degrees displayed on their walls and that they are still allowed to “treat” patients. I am also amazed at the frequency that they claim their patients are the ones with “brain deficiencies” and that patients cannot understand their own shortcomings. Your example points out quite clearly the hypocrisy so widespread in the profession.

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  • So after all these years they finally pin this down. I am asking, is this the tip of the iceberg here? And now we know about one specific extremely serious genome sequencing problem that will produce results such as violence or death, could there be other genetic or drug-drug disasters yet to be uncovered? I truly believe that even if years back they couldn’t pin it down specifically, surely they knew all along there was a very serious problem, perhaps an unpredictable one. They were well aware that prescribing SSRI’s was like roulette, they knew SSRI’s COULD cause mania or psychosis and acted like they were blind to it, or lied and claimed it was rare, or claimed the usual lie of “underlying condition” since this is the Grand Malpractice Default Mode. If all else fails, Never Admit You Did It. It was Mr. Mustard in the Kitchen with the Lead Pipe.

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  • Not if the funding went to a university that trained the law students to work in the field. That way, the funding would only be indirectly from the government, say, in the form of a grant. Or possibly this could all be privately funded via a grant which would be collected from contributions from private concerned citizens. Don’t the Nikkels have such a grant for worthy projects? There is such a need to train attorneys, not only to work on commitment cases (what a shortage on those!) but also on “insanity plea,” school shootings, drug-induced violence, wrongful death, and all kinds of psych-related cases that “malpractice” simply doesn’t quite cover. Or shall I say the malpractice attorneys can’t research it in as much detail as these cases require, because psych is so specialized. If I had an extra 50 years to live I’d go for paralegal training myself since I find the field fascinating, but I’m too darned old.

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  • Yeah and equal access to the job market, too, that would be awesome….And how about government funding for legal assistance specifically for psych, such as commitment cases and legal representation for those abused by psych professionals or institutional abuse related to psych? We don’t need more psych professionals but we do have a serious shortage of attorneys, we need hundreds more to help get people out.

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  • Thanks. I found a recent SAMSHA pamphlet (I am unsure of the date it came out) and I was glancing through it noticing the various use of buzzwords and fuzzy terminology I seriously question. I also noticed the wiggle room, vagueness about the dangers of the drugs, and no real specific benefits of them. If you water your garden the right amount, the plants will clearly benefit. We see greener, larger leaves, healthier plants, stronger stalks and roots, more fruit, etc. We do not see clear benefit like this with psych drugs. Lie to me about a healthier brain and a phony fixed imbalance and I’ll show you how many of my buddies from the wards are dead and gone now. Yes, SAMSHA is selling out. Thanks for this article and the clear and succinct explanation!!!!

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  • My friend was allergic to dogs. Over time this developed into a fear of dogs as well, which is of course a logical progression. She also suffered from nightmares since childhood. In fact, she was extremely fearful of many things when I first met her. So she went to a therapist, who told her she had a mental disorder. After that, her marriage went downhill, as did her career.

    One day, she found out that she might not be allergic to Poodles. She decided to go near one and see if she was allergic. It was scary to do this, but she found she liked the dog very much. Soon enough, one day, she got her own Poodle. After a few years, she and her husband had a number of Poodles!

    She tells me that her decades-long struggle with nightmares, that therapy could never solve, are gone. She tells me her marriage is more loving and caring with dogs in the house. She tells me they are like children to her. Yet when I first met her, decades ago, a fearful and timid woman, I couldn’t imagine her ever having a dog. Today, she has a successful career, is a pioneer in her field, raised a family, and for sure is a person I look up to and admire.

    What I know about the hypoallergenic breeds is that not all hypoallergenic breeds are hypoallergenic. I lucked out, though, or, rather, those with allergies did. I’ve never known anyone to be allergic to Puzzle. That doesn’t mean everyone likes her. I don’t think she cares so long as I feed her. Judging by that look she’s giving me, it had better be soon.

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  • I think this is extremely important but I don’t think should be used in everyday instances to encourage drugging or to increase use of the Medical Model. I do think, though, that for those who have already committed violent acts and are involved with the courts, who are in prison for these acts, who are awaiting trial, who are stuck forever in the mental-penal system, or the “I didn’t really do it because I am insane and now I’m locked up forever” system, yes, this could very well be crucial information that could tip a court case one way or the other. This information could also be used in cases where the victim committed suicide, and families are seeking justice. Wasn’t there a story on here recently about a woman who killed her child after taking psych drugs, and is now locked up? The story was posted by her therapist, and that was recent. Monica Casani reposted the story in her blog as well. And Reid Bertino, too, perhaps this information would be helpful. Any of these folks and their attorneys can use this information. Or even suggest the *possibility* to the courts! And if the author is available to testify, this, too, would be extremely helpful to those who are locked up.

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  • That is awfully sad. I think in general many of us exploited psychiatry over the years, or decades, for many reasons. For reasons beyond what appears at first glance…..As Szasz points out….Perhaps to avoid marriage because one feels unsuited to it (many are, and have that right!), or to avoid an unwanted career, to avoid having children one does not want (some do not!), to avoid some other cookie-cutter situation that one is expected to do within one’s culture, simply because a person is stuck and doesn’t see any other options there’s that lovely 800 number, because one is married but wishes one married that old sweetheart instead, because you hate your job, because you know you are gay and ooops you are married, what now?…..on and on. I can’t count how many of my fellow high school grads were pushed into med school or law school they did not want. Psychiatry was an option, the other road, a way out of that cookie-cutter. Yes, that’s subtle exploitation, but it did serve a purpose, right? While on the conscious level, they, and their families, may have been convinced of an illness, as was anyone who was around to witness at the time, in the long run, perhaps, if they lived to tell the tale, hindsight revealed the underlying cause. And no, this is not everyone’s story, only an example.

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  • This was not always the case. That I know of, NAMI was taken over by Pharma. I do not believe parents get into NAMI having any clue what it is. I know my own parents were curious and wanted to help. You must remember that some 30 years ago there was no Internet so the only source of information were the public libraries. My parents did their own research and were appalled that my doctors didn’t seem to keep up with research at all. They were also appalled that my doctors rarely listened to me, and that the docs had their own agenda. They found comfort in the NAMI groups and they found community sharing with the other parents, hearing that the other parents had similar experiences. Then, Pharma took over. What I am saying is that you cannot generalize and say that “NAMI parents are abusive parents.” Because NAMI was not always the way it is now. My dad would be appalled at the changes. He was once a leader in NAMI and from what I recall, he was so impressed with Judi Chamberlin that he urged me to read her book and get interested in human rights. He worked in the human rights field, FOR NAMI. This was right before he passed away from cancer. I am sorry that it took me another 20 years to take all that up. So you see, NAMI has undergone drastic changes.

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  • I didn’t say that, uprising. I said thousands, not all of us. I do not think I should have been working the entire time. I believe I would have benefited from a short break, not being permanently takenn from the workforce, nor do I believe society benefited from being protected from me.

    I found it harmful to be called “dangerous,” too.

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  • Agreed, wholeheartedly, Frank. I have had a change of thinking over the past month or so. For maybe two years I felt that in my own life the absolute worst thing psych did to me was to personally abuse me. I am specifically speaking of the later events that occurred to me after age 50. This after 30 years, suddenly I had a PTSD-type reaction and I realized I had to get out.

    However, now, my thinking is that really, the bigger crime, even than that, was that all those years I was clearly not disabled, there wasn’t anything about me that definitely kept me from being unable to do the tasks necessary to do a job. My mind worked fine. I was still intelligent. I could think logically. I could walk, talk, follow directions, read, write, do math, etc. Lift things, carry stuff, all the necessary things for a job. And during that time I attended college and was a stellar student without using accommodations. Only bigotry kept me unemployed.

    And one other thing. I was kind of a klutz, one of those brainy kids who tripped over her own two feet but could do figures in her head and loved to compose music, so I was only good for some types of jobs. I needed someone to guide me to those few positions open to girl nerds, and no one was around. Bad luck.

    But that’s my change of thinking, the greater harm being the determination of “disabled” and putting thousands out of work who by all means, should not be called that, should not be seen as that, and most of all, should not experience having to see themselves as that.

    Julie

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  • Okay, I watched it. I have a few things to add. First of all, I’d add your credentials into the film, so that way, viewers will know 1. Who you are and what gives you the authority to make these statements and 2. this should lead to a suggestion as to why you are concerned about the DSM. You speak well and with an authoritative tone, succinctly, clearly, authentically, and certainly with confidence. This of course will win the confidence of viewers as well.

    To ensure you retain their confidence, be sure to spell-check all the slides. I saw spelling errors, including psychiatrist, focusing (spelled focussing), ambiguous (spelled ambiguos) and I think another time psychiatrist spelled wrong, and I also took my eyes off the slides at times (plus I miss many of my own errors due to not seeing well).

    Toward the end you made the statement regarding “everyone” disliking seeing a person forced into ECT, or forced into a hospital, etc, but this isn’t actually true. Be careful with these “everyone” statements because I am guilty of such statements myself and I get knocked down whenever I make them!!!! Badly knocked down!!!! You don’t want that!! (I know someone who is dying to get her “sicko” relative forced into “treatment.” Oh, “for her own good.” Such “caring” types we wish understood that it’s not care…….)

    Other than those minor things I think this is an excellent instructive video. The slides move at a comfortable pace, not too fast, not too slow, and also, they are readable, even for me! The text is a readable font with readable colors and good contrast, too. This is so often a problem with videos for us old fogies who cannot see well anymore. I like the approach, I like the way you sum up, the way you return to the summary, the way you stick with the outline, and the way you also use the “review” format within the lesson. You never stray from the topic, and the entire piece is compact and accessible. Keep it up.

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  • Hi, I have read this summary and am about to view the video. So far, I am in support of what I see. I am especially in support of the “whole picture” view rather than the drug-focused view. In other words, this is a societal problem, since it is an entire society that now has this “mental illness is a sickness” viewpoint. Believe it or not, back in 1981 when I first started therapy and I first heard other patients refer to themselves as “ill” or “sick” I honestly had never heard that term used for that type of experience before. I had not had a word for it nor used one in my ordinary speech, except “going crazy,” or “ending up in a mental hospital” or something similar. Imagine my surprise! Okay, on to viewing the video! Julie Greene

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  • We need to keep writing more about what it is really like to be kept inside a nuthouse, from the prisoners’ point of view. Not some stock story such as, “I was sick, I went to treatment and now, I’m better” type of crap they pay people to write.

    I applied for a blogging job recently and they *said* they wanted me. Then, they said they didn’t want to hire me because they said if readers read the truth about what happened to me, they would choose not to go to mental health care. I wrote back and told them that this was my precise intention, that I aim to keep people out of nuthouses, and that I am sorry they do not like the truth. I am sorry that those places are publishing misleading stories. I do not wish to work for them in any capacity.

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  • Registered, I was speaking specifically as a female. The male mental patient experience was somewhat different at least a number of decades ago. Back in the 60’s and 70’s the career options for women were limited and women were not encouraged to pursue an advanced education. Unluckily for me, I found I enjoyed academia and wanted to stay there. I disliked the workplace and didn’t find I had any work options at all in my chosen field. Not as a woman. Not at that time. I saw women marry composers, and live in the shadows of their husbands. Then they didn’t write a note of music again. They made babies. That disgusted me. So I suppose psychiatry looked like a tempting niche to slip into. Brilliant, talented, and mad. Nice partnership, especially if you are female and do not want marriage.

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  • Frank, every single group out there has its elite. This isn’t degree-dependent. It’s a social thing. Who is “in” and who is not. Only no one likes to admit that. We’re all aware of some who have been kicked off of here, some who have been shamed, and some who simply do not hang around. We all know who the popular ones are. We all know who is “liked” and who is less “liked.” Every single group is like that, whether you got ten, twenty, a hundred, or more. You got the central circle, and you got the peons. Yeah, you got the favored ones, and you got the ones on the fringe. This is reality, and it does suck for a few, this will happen. Humane societies, workplaces, clubs, scouting, football teams, you name it.

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  • Frank, I have been told over and over by MH professionals in every way possible, in the medical model, by my own doctors, by other professionals, in and out of clinical settings, the following…

    That my degrees, which I earned, do not matter.
    That whatever intelligence I possess is not of any use.
    That my intellect needs to be suppressed and silenced via drugs and incarceration.
    That female intellect is a disease.
    That no matter what, they are right and I am wrong.
    That no matter what, whatever I say is a reflection of a diseased state.
    on and on…….

    In 2006 I was URGED no to continue with my MFA studies. Told I did not belong in graduate school.

    In 2013 I was told I HAD to stop writing and exposing the truth in my blog and I was told I would be given psychiatric drugs to force me to stop, to incapacitate me.

    In 2013 I was told I had a “useless master’s degree.” Which I suppose is why I keep it after my name. Because they can’t do a darned thing now.

    they need to *go screw* very badly. Stick their heads in poop. And stay there.

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  • I could have used some practical advice regarding my music career instead of all that talk about “emotions” back in 1981. I didn’t need emotional support. I needed someone to give me some practical assistance figuring out how on earth a young Jewish woman could break into the music composition field, which at the time, was overrun by Dead White Guys. Back then, being smart, Jewish, and female was not even allowed. You couldn’t exist.

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  • Yes, this is very true, But who is upheld as “experts” here. MH professionals rule the land here as experts. We do not see enough attorneys posting here, and I really wish we had MORE posts by attorneys. Not only that, we need many many more attorneys. Hundreds, thousands!!!! I wish we could somehow develop, say, a law school that taught student lawyers to specialize in all sorts of psych, so they would come out ready to take on these cases, all specialized in drugs, abuse, threats, sectioning, force, restraints, sexual abuse, spousal related to psych, taking dx off charts, wrongful care, incorrect care, incorrect dx, shock, failure to inform, confidentiality, wrongfully putting on disability, academic matters, child welfare, suicide, homicide, on and on…..how about…The JIM GOTTSTEIN School of LAW? If we have the Bonnie Burstow antipsychiatry scholarship, the world of Law needs the Jim Gottstein scholarship ten times more, instigated all over world. Like, yesterday. Please donate and join up.

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  • I’m not saying those with a bunch of degrees should be silenced but those with lived experience should be more visible, and if we are only here as tokens, then, well, we’re not upheld as the real experts. So this is perpetuating the myth of who the real experts are. Not only that, it’s perpetuating the “brain” myth all over again. it’s continuing the false belief that all this happens due to a brain defect that only some specialized field can handle, some person with a higher degree that the sufferer and sufferer’s family cannot possibly have. Some 800 number, some “help” out there, and therefore, the dichotomy persists and is upheld. No, this needs to be knocked down, we need something else. We need strong communities, strength within, not another 800 number, not more Welfare, not more agencies, not more “services.” Strong communities, more sense of belonging, friendship, caring, and love. And that cannot come from outside expertise, because the expert is YOU.

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  • A famous forensic psychiatrist once told me I was “faking my eating disorder.” This guy’s word holds up in court, that is, his damn opinion, that has the power to put people away for life. What can I do except laugh? If I could get on the witness stand I’d blast him away.

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  • We need all that to change. Even in the court system, which is corrupt as we know, the word of a psychiatrist as OPINION is upheld as expert witness. That’s insanity in itself. I have personally known forensic psychiatrists and I can tell you they are just as idiotic and do not hold any more expertise nor are any wiser than bartenders or hairdressers in human nature and human frailty.

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  • Dear Bob and crew, I am grateful to this site because back in 2013 I didn’t even know there were other people out there who knew the things I knew. When I discovered MIA it was like a godsend. I am happy that I made friends here and found others.

    However, I am more and more being shoved aside here. Whatever I have to give is not wanted at all. Mostly it is because of the overemphasis on psychiatric drugs and MIA’s refusal to acknowledge the whole picture. Also, MIA repeatedly upholds the authority of those with PhD’s and MD’s in MH-type fields as “experts” over those who have really lived this thing. This is totally false, and should end. I cannot participate in glorifying these non-experts any longer, nor encouraging others to do so. I cannot support MIA for continuing this lie as growing forefront in the media.

    Again, while I agree with the mission, who really has the authority to tell this story authentically and honestly? If we are to look back on the Nazi Holocaust, whom do we believe? The textbooks, the college professors, the lecturers, the politicians, the advertisers, the banks, some website, or your grandma and aunts who were imprisoned there?

    Julie

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  • YES!!!!!! Thanks, Frank. The yapping on and on about drug harms only serves to minimize the greater harm of being seen as MI in the first place. The drugs are only recently in the forefront, the past few decades. How can folks be so short-sighted? Therapy itself is so harmful. It causes addiction and dependency.

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  • Francesca, I really love your writing. As for your “crimes,” I had to chuckle. Even trashing your apartment, which sounded to me like the most destructive and violent of them all, would be excused if only you didn’t have a psych diagnosis. Say, if you did it while drunk, most likely the event would be dismissed. Or if you did it while 13 years old. Oh, if all of that were a result of a sorority party, stuff like that would be commonplace.

    The label changes everything. It is how one is perceived.

    Julie

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  • Yes, if it costs a fortune, undoubtedly it’s a scam. I’ve found that just about anything that is decent out there is free or almost free.

    For instance…Extremely useful items such as…wooden clothes pins. Lemons. Common household spices. Buckets. Brooms. Rope for clothesline. A knapsack. A decent pair of boots. a tarp, Twigs, brushwood you find outside. Stones. Common household cleaners such as peroxide. A cigarette lighter. A pocketknife. Chapstick. A cup. Your housekeys. total cost most likely mostly the boots. However, our feet hold up the entire body, if we have feet and use them, help many of us travel from place to place, and connect us to the ground.

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  • You know what is really funny…..I’ll be out, say, for a few hours and then get so thirsty and stop at a store and get maybe a liter bottle of water, gatorade, or whatever is cheapest, even coke if it’s on sale. If I didn’t have to drink it in public I’d get the 2 liter bottles (never mind have to carry them). I can’t tell you how many times I’ve stood in cash register lines and can’t wait to break into that bottle. I feel like I am going to die of thirst if I don’t. So within minutes, down goes that entire liter. Yes, I do get stared at. I’m waiting for the day someone ‘informs” me, “You can die doing that, you know…” I will laugh my butt off. Just try lithium, Dear. Yes I know what I am doing.

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  • As for not receiving treatment and still getting disability I think it’s an individual matter. Let’s put it this way. They damaged my kidneys. Then, they failed to notice I had diabetes insipidus (which is kidney damage) for 27 years and instead called it “addiction to water.” No, it wasn’t. I really do need to consume six liters of water on a normal day. I cannot get by on one liter as I will become dangerously dehydrated. Secondly, they failed to inform me that my kidneys were failing. Thirdly, when I went into kidney failure and full code, and then, revived me, again, they did not inform me of this. So now I live with damaged kidneys due to their gross errors. I doubt they expect me to trust them again! What am I supposed to do, go back and let them muck it up worse?

    They gave me Risperdal which caused bone deterioration, which they never admitted even after I broke my leg. They gave me Seroquel which caused my weight to double. I got raped and they didn’t notice. When my boyfriend died, they didn’t seem to notice that, either. When I ended up with a cracked tooth, they handed me a Haldol.

    They have demonstrated such wonderful competence, I’d say…I’d recommend them in an instant…well, if you wanna get killed, but other than that, no. I think SS is embarrassed, and looking over three decades of this circus they are most likely having a good chuckle for themselves.

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  • For sure! So today I turn 59. In six years I can earn as much as I want without penalty. I do not like them looking over my shoulder. It is the Biggest Fraud Ever. However, we did not commit this fraud. I say this because….

    There is a segment of the population who were falsely told they had epilepsy. This was merely a form of epilepsy that is transient. However, they were told it was permanent and advised to get sterilized. Many did, only to discover the doctors were incorrect. I have no clue if there was ever any sort of class action lawsuit. One article I read was totally sugar-coated saying that the woman involved ended up conceiving despite going through sterilization. I felt it was irresponsible of the journalist to leave out how the woman felt about having her life stolen because she had to live as “disabled” for many years. And what of the others? I knew someone, in fact. Because of this error, he came close to suicide.

    And what of us? Welfare fraud. I feel that this is the worst of psych crimes. Taking us out of society. Putting us out of work. Calling us disabled. Many of us could have worked. Some needed a break. I, certainly, did not need a three-decade break. I can’t find a job due to this lengthy gap in my work history. It has been hard enough to lie and explain it away. I think the docs should PAY UP. It was inexcusable.

    I agree, we did play some part in it, but mostly, it was the docs and therapists who continued to insist “You are….”

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  • I agree. i do not think there’s such think as a psychopath nor such thing as a sociopath and I will not use those words. I will sometimes note if a person seems to present themselves as not sharing their personal possessions when they should be doing so, failing to make space for others, failing to hear when they should, turning away when they should not be turning away, but these are poor choices, not disorders of one’s character. Secondly, we observers do not, by default see the entire story. Think of a stone. We cannot see the entire stone. We see one side. The other side is not visible because it is the on the side not facing us. I can tell you that on the other side of that stone is the other side of the story we have not heard.

    When a woman passes by your house walking a dog and her dog leaves poop and you look out and possibly suggest she pick up the poop, and her reaction is to shrug and walk on, does she lack a conscience? On the visible side, perhaps.

    The other side of the stone is the side we do not see. On that side is that she has just run out of her house very fast because again, her husband has threatened both her and the dog. Much like the Jews who rushed out of Egypt with no time to allow the dough to rise, this woman didn’t have time to grab a plastic bag to pick up the poop. As her dog left a mess in her yard, she is terrified wondering were she and her dog will spend the night tonight, and neglected to apologize. Does she lack a conscience? If she did, she would have left the dog behind! We cannot judge others based on only the half we see.

    We do not know the entire stories of celebrities such as Carrie Fisher. Sure, we know Princess Leia, and we know the very public Carrie, but other than that, there’s a whole other side of that stone that we never saw, and maybe will not see for a long time.

    Julie

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  • I think peer support is a good thing too. Especially prior to the hijacking, as Don as described, back then, it was totally non-hijacked. It wasn’t the same as the ones paid by the government to drive patients to appointments and coerce people to “care.” Not the same at all back then. There were phone networks and meetings that the “establishment” didn’t even know about. To me, peer support, even now the terminology, sadly, is confusing. There are peers out there that help escapees stay out, help explain to potential patients why they should not become patients, why depression is part of life, why one might consider NOT going to a hospital and maybe doing some other thing, etc. Life was very different then, the networking was amazing and much of it is still there.

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  • Shaun, I want to ask why you directed that question to Matt specifically. Do the rest of us lack insight, perhaps because we did more time in the System? Yeah I know Matt does a lot of research on his own into “studies.” I happen to dislike “studies” of that type myself. Know why? I study the arts and my particular master’s degree, which I earned with flying colors by the way, is in creative writing and literature. My own catalog of knowledge is mostly in my head, my multitude of memories of the days, weeks, and months I spent on the wards. Bet my “contact hours” top yours. Frankly, I got enough “study”in my memory to fill volumes. For my master’s degree I read some 60 books, many by “mad” people including a number by Virginia Woolf and wrote a paper on every single book I read. Yet you don’t consider me credible enough, a person with a master’s degree in memoir, to direct a question to me regarding human conscience. That’s funny, we writers write of this question all the time. Not to poke you in an Achilles’ heel or anything, but just to point that out…..We’re are all here in this room. Those group leaders used to remind us, “Talk to the group.” Ha ha.

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  • Shaun, many burned out. I recall some who admitted they were. And you are right some therapists make very little money, while others are making a fortune. I know because I have been friends with therapists over the years. Some jobs are ripoffs, too. Fee for service can be a problem, working conditions can be terrible, or they might have unfair hiring and firing practices. Never mind the hierarchy problems such as bullying supervisors.

    To my recollection, paycheck has little to do with the quality of the therapist. I knew many who cost very little, who were paid peanuts but were excellent. Or worked part time and lived on nothing, but were very very good. Rich ones who had big names were not always the better ones. This was not always true, but what I am saying is that reputation was not something you could count on. Same with locale, just because they’re in a big city, or in a really good clinic means nothing.

    However, it’s a crapshoot overall since very few are actually worthwhile.

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  • They finally insisted on giving me a state case manager. Wow that was a joke. They couldn’t seem to show up on time.

    I didn’t understand why I had them. I wanted to go to the library and it seemed a nuisance to go home to meet them, then find out they weren’t showing. I told them I already had appointment software. They said, “What? YOU know how to use a computer?” I said, “Yes, I have a master’s degree and I know how to use a computer. My father had two master’s degrees, in fact, one in computer science.” “What? None of our clients know that!” Like I had no right to be educated……I have to laugh because I recall explaining to over half of the people I saw over the years what an eating disorder was. As a matter of fact, most people do not know, and rightfully so, it’s an oddity you don’t encounter every day unless it’s your life.

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  • That’s another risk of therapy and actually I have seen that, too, when the patient becomes isolated in the therapy and cuts of other relationships. Sadly, (I am addressing Shaun here, too), what happens is two-fold.

    First of all, the patient is incredibly relieved to find someone. As was I. Finally someone to talk to. To let it out. Finally someone I can tell this stuff to. But…What happens is that while you CAN tell this stuff to the therapist, who is a PROFESSIONAL, this creates a split. The professional whom you can tell stuff to, and the others, to whom you cannot.

    Now comes the other part. Others begin to sense this split. There’s a privileged person who knows your secrets and even your husband doesn’t know these secrets. Not everyone is like this but when that therapist gets into the inner circle closer than family, closer than the best friend, closer than the spouse, then, there’s trouble, I guarantee it, especially if this goes on and on.

    Who is the patient really married to? The spouse starts to feel like he/she is playing second fiddle, deferring to the therapist. Almost as if the therapist is right there in the bedroom with them. Now is the time he/she may run off and have an affair while the patient’s mind is off with the therapist.

    In the patient’s community circles, too, others pull away. They aren’t needed anymore. The therapist can do better, the therapist knows better, he/she is the PROFESSIONAL, after all, the one with the “expertise.” Often, if there’s a crisis, I see such patients refusing to speak with anyone but a “qualified professional” and telling their friends “I must speak to a therapist.” Even one on call. Thus, the dependency, and to me, this shows not only dependency, but a significant disconnect with the surrounding community, family, and spouse.

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  • Let’s see….First was a master’s level, MA I believe. Second LICSW, third LICSW, next was an arts sort of therapist I know master’s level, the next MA, the next LICSW, the next psychologist, the next psychiatrist, the next….psychiatrist, the next psychiatrist, the next MA, then…PsyD, then….PhD.

    The very best was a Psychiatry Resident and I started with her in her second year. First of all she was my age. She was not a haughty know-it-all, which was cool. Too bad she was supervised that whole time and handed to me as “severe borderline” and no one told her I had just had ECT. They told her I was “faking an eating disorder for attention.” After five years she concluded that i really had one. Gee, finally.

    The next one was a PhD, and eating disorders specialist, I swear she knew nothing of ED. Next one LICSW, absolute fool I guess I was her therapist the entire time (didn’t notice when I was raped). The next one, was a rape crisis counselor, master’s level, not bad. Next one, Licensed counselor, also decent art therapist which, I think, can work but is rarely done well. She was a really good art therapist. What sucked was every time I saw my psychiatrist she bashed the therapist in my presence. That particular therapist got laid off after a short time. She quit the business shortly after that.

    She and I worked things out. Mutually. She tried the force method and I told her NO WAY. So we talked about it. I explained that forcing me into weekly blind weigh-ins was treating me like a child and she agreed. We designed our own program. She agreed that it was stereotyping to assume all anorexics exercise compulsively, and what we found was that running actually helped me to eat better. I was really on my way. And then she got laid off, and dumped me into the hands of a cruel abuser. It was around the time of my 53rd birthday.

    That’s when things got tons worse. Because of Maria Mellano, I was put in the psych hospital for a broken tooth. I was worse off when I got out, immediately lost my two best friends, completely disabled by the drugs they gave me (I fixed that by noncompliance eventually) then Maria repeatedly threatened to put me in State. I rebelled. It was out and out war. I was not the only one abused by her. She was master’s level, too. Tons of credentials, private practice.

    After I fired her I eventually picked up another. She knew nothing of ED so I moved on. The next one didn’t either. The next one asked me out on a date. My psychiatrist called me “paranoid,” saying it was “Impossible,” but he had.

    It was 2013. I went to a new agency. There, I went through three. The first one, clearly incompetent, threatened me in her office and didn’t know anything about ED (darned obvious). The next one shooed me away, called me an alcoholic, told me I had a “useless master’s degree” and said he knew nothing of ED and said he only did CBT. The next one clearly knew nothing of ED, asked me where I lived, then said, “I’ll see you in six weeks. Go talk to your social worker.” I walked out of there, barely able to stand up by then I was so thin, realizing I didn’t even have a social worker and wondered why she thought I did, fell down from being so weak, got myself onto the bus wondering what I was going to do, and then, a few days later, my kidneys failed.

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  • Well that’s the thing, humanbeing, I notice this on my listserv, too. See, I USED to be a patient, and to denounce my patienthood took one helluva lot of grieving. Know why? Cuz I had to give up my entire career as patient. To deny the existence of mental illness as an entity also means therapists will lose their careers for the most part, just like I lost my patient career, so this means turning their backs on MH as is, which means a lot of pain and grieving that most are completely unwilling to do. So most are like I was, quite understandably, clinging to the myths out of desperation. Yes, you lose, and it hurts like hell, but what you win is priceless.

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  • I don’t know…Every time I say, “Therapy harmed me,” I am told of some great therapist out there. Yet I had about 20 therapists and I cannot say any of them cured me. The profession has a bad track record I’d say, a large percentage abuse, a large percentage completely incompetent, and most important, we have no measurable way to rate them. We take our cars to car repair people and the cars run, or they do not. I get my dog groomed and photos will tell you if the groomer did a good job, photos of a hair color job might tell you if the colorist did a decent job or not. One look at the asphalt on the road will tell you if the workers who laid down the asphalt (and the stuff underneath) did it right. Yet a person goes to therapy and a few weeks later they cannot tell you a thing about the therapy’s effectiveness. Decades later, yes, but by then the therapist has run off with the dough. Same deal with malpractice, as pointed out by many writers I have read. Malpractice is a terrific crime to commit because it takes years before the victim realizes what has happened. Malpractice exhausts the victim, denial is high, victim-blaming is high, and blaming either the family, or causing the family to turn against the victim (if hte victim is still living), or even the entire surrounding community to turn against the victim or victim’s family is also so high that the offending doc is rarely caught. And by then, he has retired or skipped off to some other country. As per Adam Lanza’s therapist who skipped off to New Zealand. I hear he was caught.

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  • Shaun therapy should be okay, I mean, theoretically, it is a service you purchase and that service SHOULD deliver what it promises. As far as I am concerned what should happen rarely does.

    I am okay with a person CHOOSING therapy after very careful consideration of the very real risks. Therapy, like any other project, has to have a beginning, middle, and ending. Much as some folks think therapy can’t work unless it’s long-term, I do not believe that because that’s when the risk of dependency is too high. As soon as you sign on to longer term therapy, you are taking such a risk. First of all you are counting on that therapist being employed and being your therapist for the entire long-term therapy. How many years? Chances are, you’ll get transferred to a less skilled therapist with an entirely different agenda, perhaps one that does not suit you.

    Secondly, you are counting on the therapy being a certain set number of times per week, but quite often things change and the antes go up, then the therapy increases in frequency, increasing the risk of dependency. Even worse is the risk for ending up in something like day treatment. These programs will sell anyone into the MH System.

    Seeing a T twice a week for years starts to get like marriage. At that point it can really start to run your life if there’s no end in sight. When is the therapy ending? Is the patient simply being “maintained”? Or…”managed”? And why manage? Managing is takiing away the power to make one’s own decisions. If a therapist is managing, that therapist needs to wean the patient off the management. It would be to the therapist’s credit to do so and see the patient to complete independence. This should be explained from the beginning and reiterated.

    These are the risks of my being a permanent fixture in your life.

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  • Shaun I saw that too. I’m not sure who created the webpage nor which organization that is, but I think the webmasters should be alerted to the poster, especially if such posts continue. This type of thing is not tolerated around here. Psychiatry is racist at its core, since it practices eugenics. We do not tolerate racism such as antisemitism here. It seems to me to be a contradiction. There are many in this world, of course. I suppose if there weren’t opposing forces, we’d fall off the planet.

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  • The importance of the study is that the Prozac made things worse. I doubt it really says much about CBT since we already know that the positive effect of having a paid friend in an office is the quality of the relationship itself. Hmm, they must have been decent pals. I sure hope those participants, merely shy folks, were able to move on with their lives. That would be the real test of the success of the “treatment.” Who pocketed how much money for this? I hope the patients were paid, that would have been a nice bonus, and compensation for the Prozac victims.

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  • I’ve concluded we all need to take responsibility for the psych genocide. All of us. We cannot blame one group, psychs, nor blame ourselves, and certainly not our parents nor “society.”

    We need to take our responsibility for our part in it, but solely for the places where we had a choice. When we were given a choice and still agreed to it. When it was presented to us that perhaps there were alternatives, and yet, we stubbornly clung to the psychs, despite those doubts way back in our minds. It may, at the time, been too painful to admit to ourselves, or the grief may have seemed too much to face.

    Our families, too, may have played a part in keeping us as the family sickos, which may have been handy for them or useful for a time. Yet after a time it wasn’t. Upon realizing this, they should have stopped, and yet, they clung to it simply not knowing otherwise, or feared questioning the doctors when by all means, they should have.

    And our friends, who outright rejected us as lost causes when that was totally inexcusable behavior. Our employers who fired us, that, too, was inexcusable and illegal. Our colleges who socially rejected us or even kicked us out illegallly, all these illegal acts need to somehow be paid in restitution.

    The police, too, they should not be excused for profiling. They played a role, and need to recognize their role in murdering innocent people.

    The rest of the medical community who treated us as subhuman, that was either illegal or unethical and these need to be dealt with. All this added up to millions of deaths. We all played a part, and all of us need to face this, even patients. This was not the act of a chemical. Chemicals, as pills, don’t do anything except eventually break down in the atmosphere and then are completely benign. We may have been forced, but for the most part, this was coercion or uninformed choice. We need to acknowledge our part in it, and somehow rectify this.

    And we need acknowledge that if we aren’t “mentally ill” nor “disabled” then everyone else, our employers and those around us must also stop seeing us that way. Should this happen, the job market, along with training and schooling would then open up for us, I would hope. Perhaps some type of tapering off the “handouts” could then be arranged.

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  • By the way, Risperdal causes severe osteoporosis due to missing one’s periods. this SHOULD be a huge lawsuit for women, as it is the same thing that causes breast growth in men. I experienced it myself and that is why a simple fall while walking caused a complete fracture (all the way through, not just a crack) in my femur, the largest bone in the body. That was 1999. I was otherwise fit. When I got that operated on the doc (the ortho, that is) was shocked to see the condition of my bones.

    Later, Seroquel caused such rapid weight gain that the osteoporosis reversed itself due again to hormonal imbalance caused by how rapid the weight gain was. I think it was rise in estrogen, which puts one at risk for many cancers. I am very lucky I’m even alive. After all that they claimed I never had osteoporosis. Well, they were just lucky because the original orthopedist had moved out of town. He would have set them straight.

    Julie

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  • Dear Pretty Purple Pill, You will need to rehearse this well and be conviincing. .Your life depends on it.

    “A psychiatrist? No, I don’t think I ever saw one. I doubt it…not to my recollection, no. I never saw one.”

    “No, I don’t think I ever took anti…anti-what? What are those for? Blood pressure? No, I have been healthy. I am very careful.”

    “No, there hasn’t been any suicide nor mental illness in my family, but actually down the street I heard about that. Not in my family that i know of.”

    “Oh of course, doc. I told my previous provider to send the records twice now. The doc retired but I’ll see to it that somehow they get sent. No, the number is in my old cell phone at home. I’ll have them sent. Can you give me the form? I’ll fill it out and bring it in next time if you don’t have the records by then.” (Don’t.)

    Practice, practice, practice. Be an excellent actor. And NEVER share records. Use fake names and numbers for your relatives. Do not put your primary care doctor’s number on your fridge because your relatives will look there, duh.

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  • Thanks for clarifying again. I was labeled bipolar for convenience only as I was never manic nor had anything other than normal mood swings. I think the doc that decided changed it from schiz since my parents pointed out that the schiz was obviously false and he agreed but had to call me something to keep his job.

    With much hindsight I can say those shrinks were complete fools.

    Julie

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  • Princess Aurora, If you just take drugs, and you do not see yourself as mentally ill nor are seen as mentally ill, then you aren’t. You’re just a drug-taker. Which is your business. Many people take drugs, legal ones or street ones, for a variety of reasons, including drugs that influence how they think or feel, but they don’t think of themselves as mentally ill nor are perceived as such. They aren’t, either.

    The only disability is perceived disability. You are just taking a drug, and hardly see the shrink at all. Frankly I think that’s completely your business. Things would radically change if you went to go to “day treatment” five days a week, six hours a day, or if you lived in a halfway house, or if the drug side effects made you look like a mental patient in public.

    Julie

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  • Noelle, Thanks so much for explaining this so clearly.

    The ONLY way to get diagnosed with bipolar is to see a mental health professional. Without these fools, you cannot get diagnosed. Seeing mental health professionals causes stress, addiction to appointments, breakup of marriages and families, incarceration in mental hospitals, long-term unemployment, disability, revolving door syndrome, marginalization, alienation from society, and early death.

    If anyone out there is on their way to see a mental health professional, turn around and do not go. We can find another way. We can do this.

    Julie and Puzzle

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  • Shaun F, I was overjoyed when I got a diagnosis. Know why? As a female intellectual, I was then excused from this thing I dreaded called “workplace” where I would not be valued as such, but for my body, as nothing but a cup size. I was on the verge of graduation from a prestigious college where I was doing extremely well, and after that, I was facing a life of waitressing and kissing the butt of some male boss. Ending up a patient excused me from all that. And it did so seamlessly, since aren’t all talented artists supposed to be crazy? We can’t even be brilliant without a touch of madness…which is a total romantic fiction…but it served me well anyway. For three decades until I realized it was all baloney. So yeah, I was happy. To hear about bipolar, schiz, etc. I realize now that putting me out of work, creating this new marginalized life for me, lowering my standards, lowering my quality of life, costing taxpayers millions, and really, destroying my musical career, and getting away with it…I was not even disabled! all due to diagnosis…this was a CRIME of huge proportions. I think all those doctors should be in prison for Welfare Fraud. I capitalize that because they didn’t just do that to me, they did that to hundreds of others. That adds up. If I were the average Joe Taxpayer, I’d demand accountability.

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  • You say you don’t use psychiatric diagnosis, but are you even aware of just how many you used in that last post of yours, Shaun? We in the Movement do not use such hate speech. Even in your description of Mary Richardson Kennedy’s husband, a junior Kennedy, you described him as a possible “narcissist.” Never mind the plethora of labels dotted throughout your post. Do you speak that way in ordinary conversation, too? Shall we continue to classify humans in this manner? What other ways shall we classify? Jews, homosexuals, short people….Why not kill off the ones we do not like? Or just send them off to an island.

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  • Shaun, BPD has no scientific validity as a “disease,” it is only a very negative label to call a person and creates a plethora of harmful expectations. These are created mostly by therapy for BPD, since the therapist expects these negative behaviors from the client. The client then embraces BPD and becomes the role. Also, if luck will have it, the therapist further harms the client by communicating (via the “chart”) to other professionals and to insurance companies that the client is BPD, therefore, the client now has this on permanent record like a criminal history. Very few clients outright reject the diagnosis, because to do so means not only individual rejection of it, but all family members, all in his/her peer group, and all in her community must also follow suit. Will they do so? Not likely. Sadly, most believe the doctor over the patient. That’s how therapy ruins a person’s life. Most completely embrace the BPD diagnosis, becoming more and more BPD simply due to continued expectation. By the therapist, whether she/he knows it or not.

    In the case of Gunderson, he didn’t even do therapy. He insulted people over and over. I don’t call that therapy. It’s abuse. He had no competency as a clinician whatsoever. From what I know, Mary attended “sessions” with this man for a considerable period. Abuse, week after week. I think that might drive a person to suicide. If I could, I would get someone to pay attention to this since I bet he harmed others, too.

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  • Yikes, genocide…. Every time I have seen a person put in restraints over the 34 years I was psychiatrized, every single time, the person was first needled by staff. Then sometimes during the tying down, the person was physically abused and needled further, or verbally abused repeatedly while tied. Other times the person had needs such as needing to pee and were refused, or if out of desperation the person peed in the bed they were verbally or physically abused further. A number were raped while tied. I have also seen patients tied to chairs, tied to poles that were stationary on the unit, and also physically handicapped patients denied their mobility aids such as wheelchairs, walkers, and canes taken away. I saw a guy who was injured denied crutches and denied medical care for his injury (meniscus tear done by abuse in ER) this went on for weeks and I saw the red and swollen knee….he was in such pain and they yelled at him and told him to “suck it up.” I have seen addicts forced into the DT’s due to denial of proper care, cold-turkeying in ER’s and ignored, they were sweating profusely and shaking all over, crying out and the staff yelled at them, I have seen people kicked, I have seen someone pass out and staff simply walked by, I saw a wrongful death… All this being commonplace. And then they told me I was delusional and demanded I stop writing about it all.

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  • Deena, I gotta laugh. If you fell asleep involuntarily after taking 1mg Abilify, then that must explain why two of my “therapists” fell asleep in the “sessions” I had with them. They must have been on Abilify! So that explained it! I should have suggested a “taper” to them, eh? I had no clue. I didn’t know what to do while they nodded off except to wait it out or maybe take out a book and see how many chapters i could read till my “session” was over.

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  • Huge classes, disenfranchised kids, underpaid teachers, leading to kids (and teachers, too) ending up in offices and running to the corner CVS. Meaning more thousands in taxes paying for MH whereas a few bucks should have paid to reduce class size and get the teachers a contact.

    But really, what they’d rather do is screw up first, then, pay to “fix” people with drugs.

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  • Agreed. I hear among the buzz of homeowners many complaints about “high taxes.” They need to know about the insane wasteful “mental health” spending that’s only ruining the lives of those the money is being spent on, money spent to keep people in System, including the Penal System, the Welfare System, the Child Protective (Foster Care) System, the Mental System. Taxpayers are paying to house Slaves within for thousands per day, while the money ultimately goes straight into the pockets of the drug companies. Meanwhile the average taxpayer rants about “fraud” that is by comparison, petty.

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  • My general rule of thumb is that if it costs a fortune I am suspicious. If it’s free or very cheap for sure it’s in every grandma’s medicine cabinet, passed down from generation to generation for a very good reason. Vitamin C, I hear, can be purchased in the dollar store for a dollar. Hugs, caring, listening, all these are free. Except I got it in my head to patent doggie kisses and sell them for hundreds a piece. Miracle cure!

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  • Me too! I stay away from doctors and social workers. Either can call you MI on a whim and even section or “urge” you to go to psych. Other than that, even though the ones I have seen lately I managed to lie to about my history, I find them haughty know-it-alls, especiallyh male doc/female patient combo. They have the audacity to claim they know us better than we know ourselves. Baloney.

    I also notice that they act all nice at the first session. After that, they’re their usual selves.

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  • Thanks! I would love to see that paper! I am so tired of hearing that my 20! therapists must have been “exceptions” and somehow the majority do no harm. The people i knew who completed suicide did so due to therapy abuse. Plain as day. therapists who were doing their job, it was STILL abuse. No one likes admitting this, they’d rather blame some “illness” or drugs.

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  • Lauren I have a friend who uses one of those push-button 911 devices which she chose to have herself. This is not exactly a tracking device per se but she tells me it has really saved her at times, either in the physical sense and also saves her from potentially embarrassing situations. The reason is that she often uses a wheelchair and if she were to fall, she’d need to quickly and easily summon assistance (rather than screaming till a neighbor heard). She uses it also if her wheelchair malfunctions and she needs to get “rescued.” She told me she used it when she fell and couldn’t get back up. It only calls 911 when she pushes the button, that is, voluntarily summons emergency personnel. That I know of it doesn’t track her unless she needs it to for the EMT’s to find her. I believe she wears it on her wrist. The act says noninvasive and non-permanent. My guess is that it would be a wristlet similar to a medic alert bracelet.

    Yes, I know what this is leading to. But they state that the tracking is voluntary and a parent or guardian of the elder or child has the right to refuse on behalf of the child or elder. The act also states that the tracking cannot be used to form a government database. What I didn’t see was whether the elder or child him/herself had the right to refuse to wear it, on his/her own behalf. But if it’s removable, he/she can just get sneaky no matter what the law says.

    I did not see anything about embedded microchips, like the ones some pets have. However they do have that technology. Now and then I see articles on just how wonderful it is…..Yikes.

    I think we need to do away with criminal databases and sex offender registries. If a person committed a crime as a young person who should be concerned if decades have passed? As for the sex offender registry, all that means is “I got caught,” or, “I got framed.” The other 99% who never even see a courtroom didn’t. The ankle trackers are unconstitutional. They aren’t in the wearer’s best interest. My friend’s EMT button, on the other hand, is something she deliberately chose, considering her own safety.

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  • Actually, Chaya, I did end up with permanent kidney damage. However, simply due to age, I am not overly anxious, have no OCD-type problems, never ever manic (never was), never have panic attacks nor even close, never get depressed either. Only if I run into very bad luck. Then maybe I feel a tiny bit depressed for a very short while. I also can speak in front of large audiences and I do not get stage fright. I experience the normal joys and sorrows of life, have plenty of ambition and motivation. What I suck at is making and keeping friends. This is not from drugs but from very bad abuse I endured while I was inpatient when I was over 50. I still rarely get a chance to tell my story to anyone since it’s not drug-related. I’m told it’s “irrelevant.” Meaning people just can’t stand to hear just how cruel those MH people are, and would rather blame their problems on drugs.

    Drugs on their own, what are they? Pills. Take them, give them away, toss them out. Your choice if it’s only drugs. However, if you see a psychiatrist, you have the push to put those drugs in your mouth, the insidious statements about your “disability” and why exactly you “need” the disabling drugs. That and the prescription pad, these are the power the shrinks have over us. Power, dominance, these involve other people. Pills are inanimate. They cannot speak, cannot insult you, cannot knock you down, cannot threaten. Show up at a dr.’s office, that’s when it happens.

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  • Actually, much of the “therapy” we received used the exact same techniques as the heavy-duty brainwashing cults. The brainwashing alone will sway many and this has nothing to do with “character strength.” I was in a brainwashing cult. They used powerful suggestions, sleep deprivation, isolation from society, limited access to telephone, using mealtime and “lecture” timed so that people get lectured after meals, when they are sleepy. The meals were high in sugar and starch, enhancing the sleepiness effect. They used slogans, children’s games, and songs. The leaders were charismatic. They used deception as well of course. Look up brainwashing and you see a psych ward. Drugs are not necessary to accomplish this. People stayed in these cults for years and to leave was traumatic and scary. Another thing the cults use is scare tactics, telling people of the horrors of leaving, such as, “The Devil will get you.” Likewise, “If you stop coming to treatment you will RELAPSE,” oh, the scare tactics…..

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  • What I see is so much emphasis on the drugs, which looms at us so hugely, overshadowing the real harms. The worst is that they put us out of work, call us disabled, essentially we end up believing for years in our own inferiority. As far as I am concerned, this is the one thing that destroys lives the most. The drugs are merely a distraction from the real issue. Acquired dependency, neediiness, helplessness, feeling unworthy of equal treatment, believing one is disabled. That can happen with or without drugs.

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  • Very true. I was amazed, though. I spoke with one a few days ago at length, this one in Massachusetts, and near the end of the conversation he noted the way I worded something, then suddenly asked, “Did you speak with another legislator a while back?” I told him it was ages ago. I am so, so surprised that apparently my story was passed around between them. Yes, those were my words, words he had heard from the other legislator! To be honest, I am rather tickled. OUR STORIES MATTER. We just have to keep telling them. Keep telling them again and again until they listen. What “they” do to us, there is simply no excuse to treat a person as if he/she is a monster. None.

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  • Looking at those requirements for force are so scary. So many more will be roped in who would be better off without psych in their lives. Many are so young and don’t get a chance to know any other life, to know that another way is possible, better, more enjoyable, and you even get the rights, privileges, respect, and dignity we all deserve.

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  • Lauren, my recommendation NOW is to be prepared. Give fake phone numbers and fake names of relatives to your providers if ever you need to see one. Do so with a smile (and a giggle). In case of psych emergency, meaning you end up in some ER against your will (the ONLY valid psych emergency, since ending up incarcerated puts human beings at serious risk) then, if they have the nerve to call your parents, siblings, landlord, employer,college, other providers, etc, when they dial the number, they’ll hear, “Bob’s Pizza, what can I get for you today?”

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  • The power of a group coming together that has had, or is having, a common experience is amazing.

    I go to forums often because I find that reading individual stories tells me so much more than anything you can get in an office or from reading institutional propaganda. Even Amazon reviews are very telling. Any posting anywhere that isn’t edited nor censored (taking out the facts they don’t want anyone to know) is incredibly valuable. I don’t put any stake in “advice” sites where the authors are clearly profiting or out to sell something.

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  • You bet Oldhead! I am sure if I stayed on them, or took their lovely “recommendations,” I’d be dead now. Seeing too many doctors results in our losing touch with our bodies. We rely on THEM to tell us what’s going on. That’s baloney of course. If you are free of the doctor-addiction, you get back in touch and your gut instinct is reliable once more. You end up much, much healthier. People who are lacking in so-called health care due to poverty are amazing at that self-preservation that their wealthier counterparts have lost.

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  • Yes, true. It’s completely unpredictable who will have the withdrawal problems and who will not, and if you cold-turkey once successfully that does not mean if you do it again, everything will be okay.

    Still, when I see other people blaming ordinary life events on “withdrawal” I realize they are taken up by the withdrawal hype. Examples include mosquito bites mistaken for “itchiness” due to anxiety, common cold mistaken for withdrawal, sweating in hot weather mistaken for “the sweats,” ordinary muscle aches following exercise mistaken, again, for ” withdrawal anxiety.” Etc. In other words, where we used to call all of life’s normal everyday problems “symptoms,” now, there’s this switch and life’s problems are blamed on withdrawal. Have we forgotten that shit happens? I think people need to know that the extreme reactions to withdrawal happen only to some, and these should be taken very very seriously. Otherwise, you know, life is simply not perfect and it doesn’t get handed to folks on a silver platter the way it was in the nuthouse.

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  • I don’t get it. Is Dr. Gold not feeling well?

    This is a door and there is a lock on it. This is a key in the hands of Dr. Gold. We see no keys in the hands of patients. Is Dr. Gold not aware that she comes into work daily and unlocks the door to let herself in, and it locks behind her? Is she deaf, unable to hear the click of the door?

    Oh, she lacks insight. She sees a lock, but in her mind, she insists its treatment.

    Meanwhile, the commonly held belief is that this is a locked door, and this is a key.

    I think a few rounds of ECT, therapy, and drugs might fix her grand delusion. Of course she won’t be able to put a sentence together, but…..It’s treatment. Tell her that.

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  • Very true! The pills are so colorful that with a bit of glue you can make them into a bead collage. I have no doubts that pills have other uses, it’s just that legally (in the US) they cannot legally prescribed for the alternative uses.

    Look at the weight gain Seroquel causes. That could be beneficial to some, but to prescribe it as such is considered off-label. Is it ever done? Yes. IIn the US, that’s not legal but they get around that.

    The “adjunct” effect is approved for the neuroleptic drug Abilify in the US.

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  • Hopeful, this particular drug is not an antidepressant and isn’t designed for that. Some may feel less depressed on it, though. It is given for mania, to lower one’s mood, and for psychosis. Or is supposed to be. I don’t think it’s even approved for sleep alone, though that doesn’t mean it won’t be given off-label, legal or not. I hear that for “schizophrenia” (which doesn’t exist) it is minimally effective, but that depends on prior brainwashing of whomever you ask. I found that the drug caused writer’s block for me, and normally I never get that.

    Antidepressants include Prozac-like drugs (SSRI) which are given out like candy, and also a few other classifications, such as tricyclates, MAO inhibitors, Effexor-like drugs, etc. I can’t say I am impressed with anything Pharm has come up with, especially their lies.

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  • Hi Chaya, Thanks for pointing this out. This could very well be an opportunity we can take advantage of. Sometimes, when a person is withdrawn cold turkey not by choice, but by circumstances (changing insurance, loss of job, provider’s idiocy) they suddenly “wake up” and realize just how dangerous these drugs are. While withdrawing may be scary it is also a point of growth and enlightenment.

    I look back with much amusement at how I got off two antipsychotic drugs cold turkey and nothing bad happened. This wasn’t even my choice. I was forced into an ER (you couldn’t call it much more than a prison) and as I was being brought in, I told the staff what drugs I was taking, very clearly, and saw them put this cocktail list into their computer.

    I was there three days. For the entire three days I got no pills. Oddly, my providers were in touch with me, and I take it, in touch with the ER. This mistake in the ER’s communication ended up much to my benefit. They finally gave me a “PRN” of Lamictal, gotta laugh at just how stupid they were. But no other pills.

    I got out. They released me to go straight home. I asked myself, “If i feel no different, if I am clearly not psychotic and not really feeling very bad at all, why not just keep on not taking those two antipsychotics? I had been on 20mg Abilify and 3mg Risperdal (down from 6). Also, I was so thin, starving and dehydrated at the time that something told me the drugs would harm me if I continued taking them.

    I “woke up” and realized I never needed those pills. Why had they given me three antipsychotics at once when I was never psychotic nor manic? I think they weren’t listening, eh? What didn’t occur to me for years after, though, was that taking the drugs for decades most likely caused so much brain damage that my ability to fall asleep and stay asleep was completely destroyed.

    The best part is being un-diagnosed. That’s so critical, at least for me. If they see you as crazy, you are. This, and this alone defines “mental illness,” nothing more than “misunderstood.”

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  • Hi Hopeful, My guess is that since 25mg of Seroquel is extremely sedating and 150 is only mildly sedating, this accounts for the spaciness when you tapered to 25. People do not realize that “more” isn’t going to knock you out more. The smallest possible dose will induce sleep. What happens is that people try it, then think: Oh, I will raise the dose, and then, sleep better. Then, they wonder why several hundred “doesn’t work.” The “effect” of this drug at the lowest doses is mostly very akin to antihistimine sedation. A very high dose won’t do any good at all, say, over 600. People wonder why 800 or 900 “doesn’t work.” It will produce only “funny effects” which may be unpleasant and also, you get the rapid weight gain which probably overshadows ANY imaginable benefit anyone will derive from the drug.

    I hear that some people who are oriented toward “pleasure-seeking” (who enjoy drunkenness and get stoned for fun) will likely feel “stoned” on high doses but I can’t imagine that it’s at all worth it. From my own recollection, even decades ago, some patients were telling me they liked the stoned effect of Cogentin even. At the time I found this idea ridiculous, and I asked them, “Why bother?”

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  • Thanks for letting us know, Lauren. At this point we really need to develop, and possibly “share” or publicize strategies. Even pass pamphlets around to people warning them. Sharing our stories is so vital right now.

    I was refused a job as blogger recently for an eating disorders facility because they were afraid that if people read my stuff they’d decide against “treatment.” So I was not hired. I thought, “Well, I agree, that’s my ultimate goal. To share what happened to me and maybe then, folks will think twice.”

    How to say no. How to outright lie and when to do so. How to tailor your responses to avoid MH. How to end therapy if it’s getting abusive or threatening, alternatives, how to find nice people to talk to so you don’t feel tempted to hire a fake one in an office, and so on. And how it’s so, so much better without MH in your life!!!!!! Now more than ever. How can we reach the general public?

    If anyone wants it and is writing a book, if it’s a survivor story I will look over the whole thing entirely for free, write margin commentary and suggestions, and so on. I can also offer tips or talk to anyone out there about discipline, getting the words down on paper, where to start, how to shape the story, etc. That’s what my degree is in.

    Julie

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  • Time to SPEAK OUT AGAINST PSYCH in all forms. Last night at my Toastmasters meeting I gave a last-minute speech titled, “How to become a mental patient.” It seems as though I got the effect I wanted as I was told the speech was “humorous and poignant.”
    Pros to being mental patient:
    You don’t have to work anymore
    You get paid!!!
    You are relieved of adult responsibilities. No more changing the kitty litter!
    You are relieved of human rights. Oh, never mind…..

    How is mental illness tested for? A brain test? Nope. A blood test? Nope. How you feel? Nope, because all humans have their good and bad days…..

    But if you totally determined, here’s how…..
    Easy three-step method:
    1) See a MH professional and get a diagnosis.
    Here, I added that diagnosis is a three-statement process:
    a) “You are.”
    b) “You can’t.”
    c) “You will.”
    Step 2) Use clinical language to describe everyday experiences. (grief, sadness, joy, etc)
    The most important step 3) Let everyone know you’re crazy.

    If they see you as a nut, you are a nut, you become one. Easy!!!!

    To punctuate the ending of my speech, I cracked an egg into a dish (broken brain). That’s when you die a nutcase and no one cares.

    I didn’t tape record this one. I enjoyed every minute of it, of course.

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  • By the way, folks, many people enjoy wonderful and productive lives without ever meditating. To my knowledge, it is not a life necessity. Just like anything else, it’s not going to appeal to everyone. Oh, of course, there are those that market it, and if you want to pay a hefty price, that’s your choice.

    I enjoy my life the way it is. I enjoy running. I would never tell other people they HAVE to run, nor would I state that they are “not recovered” nor “anxious” nor missing out in any way nor “not enlightened” because they do not run.

    There is no one size fits all. You can tell me what you enjoy and in turn, I can tell you what I enjoy.

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  • All these religions say about the same thing. Then why do people fight and argue? The only thing I can’t stand is other people imposing their way of life or beliefs on others, which is religious oppression. I don’t think meditation is any exception. I don’t think it was right of “therapists” to shove meditation at us patients. Many patients were already praying and found that it worked for them. Or reading. Or going for a run. Or doing whatever they did, that already was working. So the new-agey therapists who thought they were oh so hip and cool were in fact violating the patients by shoving meditation at them instead of respecting their beliefs. In other words, if it works for you, great. But something else entirely might work for someone else and you need to respect that. And it very well may be ironing one’s clothes or playing chess. Who cares if it’s not called something trendy?

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  • I’m still waiting for the cure for Idiot Who Sneezes All Over Me On the Bus. Hmmm. If I were truly the dangerous nutcase they claimed I was, I’d punch him out, but unfortunately, I can’t seem to get up the nerve to purchase a fly swatter. I know, throw bottles of Vitamin C at him, but that’ll get me 20 years in the loony bin slammer.

    After I got sneezed on and caught a cold, I found it went away in a day and a half by upping the vitamin C and zinc, especially since years ago I stopped the flu shot. Gosh that sure made me sick. I sure wish being broke would pass as quickly as the common cold. Any vitamin cures for that?

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  • And no one deserves to be locked up, especially with no end in sight, human rights denied, privacy denied, or to have to fear it while at home, fear of being taken any minute now, hearing those sirens and that stretcher, or to be threatened or told one deserves or needs lockup due to a fake disease.

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  • Through completely randomized experimentation, I discovered the same thing right in my own kitchen. Anyone out there should experiment likewise. Curcumin also improves cognition if you end up with those issues from hydration problems (mine were environmental) and I’d say the Curcumin helped. You should try different sources as they vary widely. Actually go to your spice section of the supermarket. You may be surprised and delighted.

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  • I have witnessed horrific destruction at the hands of “therapists.” I believe Mary Richardson Kennedy’s death was caused by the cruel “therapy” of the “great” John Gunderson. Apparently she saw this bully for about six months and that was enough, I believe, to totally annihilate her. I am sure he caused her high-profile suicide. I wish this could be investigated and brought to the attention of the public. Looks like fingers were pointed straight at her as the sicko in the marriage, and Gunderson walked.

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  • Yes but many people never make those calls. A petition is very easy, click of the mouse, and those folks that do not ever call, and won’t, will be adding their voices to our calls. Plus MoveOn;s email list and Facebook sharing reaches many people and Elizabeth Warren (she’s a senator) is a very prominent person taking this up. I figure it’s about time!

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  • Thank you Judy for writing this. Testimony to how they break and destroy human lives. There was a word that I think was originally used to describe the worst child abuse but applies, I believe, to this type of psych abuse when they totally destroy you. Soul-murder. They leave us devastated and of course many then choose suicide. Thanks for describing it so eloquently. I have seen so many die. This article made me cry.

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  • Hey you guys, Elizabeth Warren just put out a MoveOn petition saying that Big Pharma has hijacked this bill. Well this is what we have been saying all along, of course. She says the following, copied and pasted:

    “Legalizes fraud: It’s against the law for drug companies to market drugs for uses not approved by the FDA. You can’t sell a headache pill as a cure for cancer. Drug companies have paid billions in penalties for “off-label marketing.” Instead of following the law, they’ve cozied up to Congress to have the Cures bill shoot holes in it.

    “Covers up bribery: Currently, drug companies have to disclose the buckets of money, gifts, giveaways, and free trips they give doctors and hospitals as kickbacks to use certain drugs. Once again, drug companies cozied up to Congress to gut that disclosure rule, allowing any gift related to “medical education” to be exempt.

    “Hands out special deals to GOP donors: A major Republican donor to Mitch McConnell’s Super PAC has big business plans to sell dangerous, unproven stem cell treatments before they have been approved by the FDA as safe and effective. Now that donor is collecting on his investment. The Cures bill creates a special deal so people can sell these treatments without meeting the FDA gold standards for protecting patient safety, undermining the integrity of the FDA and the safety of untold numbers of desperate patients.”

    Well, gee, maybe they are finally catching on, eh? Her petition is with MoveOn. It’s very easy to sign. You just click. I didn’t even realize i had…until I did. Here it is: http://pac.petitions.moveon.org/sign/tell-congress-dont-let-2/

    Julie

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  • Is it true that Healy administers ECT? I know he claims it is the lesser of two evils, the more evil being the drugs. Of course, having had ECT and knowing others who have been through this horrific and barbaric, um, “treatment,” I disagree. But I never knew he was a practicing clinician. I thought he mainly did research.

    How can drugs be less evil if it’s possible actually to purchase chemicals in bars, AKA alcohol, and self-administer and control your intake, choose how many drinks you have, and say no when you decide you do not want any more? Most can. I happen to dislike alcohol. You can purchase many drugs in CVS or grow herbs and decide to put them in your body, or not. Or put things like basil on your salad. When it comes to prescription, well, that’s coercion and control, no thanks.

    Who would self-administer ECT? I hear they do much lower voltage recreationally, like from batteries, but other than that, again, no thanks.

    Please note my sarcasm.

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  • Jim, Why apologize? No need to do so. Nor give any excuses nor reasons. It’s a decision, period. Like, Do you want cream in your coffee?

    Years ago I gave up driving. No, not because I couldn’t drive. Not because I got a DUI. Because I didn’t like driving. I didn’t like being dependent on a hunk of metal I couldn’t carry in a knapsack. So I stopped. I believe I was around 30 years old and now I am nearly 60. What happened? A few friends called me and said they didn’t want to be friends anymore, because of my “decision.” Interesting, eh?

    I was reminded of another “decision” I made at age 21. I was going to stop having sex. I made this decision because as a woman, I didn’t want to be used for my body. I wanted to be appreciated for something other than t*ts and a**. So, lo and behold, a number of my male friends told me they did not want to be friends anymore due to my “decision.” Yet we had not been sexual partners. So I guess they’d been hanging around for the t*ts and a**.

    There’s no place in my life for users. I didn’t want to be a taxi. I lost my riders and those who wanted me only for sex. Who remained? Real friends. Leaving Facebook and ditching those that kept me at arm’s length, refusing to speak to me, meant those that were willing to speak remained. And it meant having the time and energy to seek out real friends, too.

    Where do you find them? Mostly, on the bus, at the bus stop, on the streets, at the food pantries, and where the most impoverished hang out. I make a point of thanking the bus driver, thanking the traffic cop who helps me out, and trying to help out the homeless folk. There are so many. I speak to them and befriend them as much as I can. Sometimes I clue them in on how to find food, water, or a place to spend the night, find cover from the rain, or keep warm.

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  • I keep wondering what conversations come up about this topic. Were these conversations spoken or tapped? Young people these days are afraid to speak aloud. Many have “phone phobia” and resort to texting since they seem unable to carry on a spoken conversation. I believe this is because they are out of practice. More texting means less speaking, which means less familiarity with how to speak. Then, young people (and some old folks, too) actually fear speaking aloud. They are uncomfortable. “Shoot me an email instead,” they say. Or, “Hop on Facebook and let’s chat.” Screw it! I want real speaking! What ends up happening is that we have a silent world, tapping away. I’m all for correspondence when distance, cost, or imprisonment keeps us from doing otherwise, but if we can speak, we should! It’s sad, silent, and very lonely. I finally decided that I will not carry on a texting-only relationship. Speak, or just get out of my life.

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  • I have met Gina Nikkel and heard about the Foundation that way. I was never aware that David Healy administered ECT. I don’t see that in his blog anywhere. I wasn’t aware that he did clinical work and saw patients.

    I have been looking at ways to develop a “safe place” for people with eating disorders. I see the interest in ED is very minimal all over the movement even though I keep screaming that the human rights abuses in ED “care” are the worst in all of mental “health.” When will someone listen?

    I believe that the folks from the UK who developed Family-based treatment are onto something. It’s also called the Maudley method. The stats look good, but what I need are STORIES. Human stories. Stories that tell me how it works. I know a few people who went through it and I do not see any evidence of cruelty. In fact, when done right, families become more whole. What a contrast to traditional MH “care”! Is anyone listening? Traditional care for eating disorders KILLS!!! This is why people are dying, children are dying at an alarming rate.

    Not all families and not all patients can do Maudsley, simply due to financial status and age. If a patient isn’t living at home anymore or the family simply hasn’t got the time/resources to devote to the method or isn’t willing, it can’t be done. My idea is Community. That this can be implemented in a small setting, in a community, in a safe place that isn’t “lockup.”

    Maudsley works best when lockup is avoided. When force is avoided. Force is bad for you. It kills. Safety means no force, no locked doors, no taking away human rights. Because when there’s force, it’s not safe.

    This would be totally peer-run. We ARE the professionals. Ever sit in an office with some stuffy dude trying to tell him what it’s like to self-starve and get that idiotic, blank stare?

    Trying to get this off the ground, trying to get someone to take interest and care.

    If I can, if I get something started i would love to try to write up a proposal to the Foundation.

    Thank you.

    Julie

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  • Wow, this is good news indeed. (Incidentally, Alan was my dad’s first name.) I am concerned, as we all are, about the co-opting of the peer movement. It really needs to get back to its true intention.

    I recently started an antipsychiatry group. A potential member asked if we were antipsychiatry or “the usual neurodiversity/mad pride thing.” I replied that our group’s focus was human rights and dignity, where force has absolutely no place at all.

    We need to keep offering alternatives. And we need also to be shining examples of the Other Narrative, the one that affirms that we are better off without force or coercion in our lives.

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  • Iris, many of us have been on these drugs for decades and we’re okay now. Two months isn’t that long. Brain damage is possible from anything out there, including air pollution, or a car accident. Never mind television. I think honestly people worry to much. Just don’t obsess over “withdrawal” I swear this site makes people so worried, so scared and obsessed, which seems to be more problematic than the withdrawal itself. Stay away from psych drugs. Don’t start them, and get off the ones you’re on.

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  • Hi Niv, for sleep, less is more. The tiniest dose will sedate. 400 won’t, not that well and you get unwanted effects for sure. 25 is more sedating. Even a half pill if you can get down that low. So lower dose, under 100, you will sleep. Get as low as you possibly can, and use the non XR if you can get it. After your body realizes it is supposed to sleep, try to go off altogether. I wish I had a link to the website that explains why less works better. Also, don’t use benadryl because it interferes with the sedation. So mixing benadryl with other sedating drugs will cancel out the “wanted” effect. I discovered this after a lengthy bit of research.

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  • Yeah i couldn’t believe the email, either. She was saying I should hear the other point of view. What was she really objecting to? The very existence of antipsychiatry! Hey, I don’t go to websites or groups I don’t happen to like or agree with and tell them they shouldn’t exist. Should Yankees fans not exist just because someone is a Sox fan? That was essentially what she was saying, that my existence and my experiences aren’t valid. I disregard such talk.

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  • Yep, I am frequently called a “danger to society” just for telling the truth. I was just turned down for a blogging job because the people running the blog were afraid that if the truth came out, people would refuse “treatment.” It is my aim to steer people away from the System because it is abusive and ends up being permanent. I am not a danger to society. I am a danger to facilities because if people read my stuff, the facilities will lose all credibility.

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  • Please keep in mind (anyone reading this) that it is wrong to conclude that a person was neglected or abused in early childhood simply because they’ve shown up at a shrink’s doorstep. Many of us had decent childhoods but got fucked up by psychiatric abuse later in life. Psych abuse causes rage because it is rarely even recognized nor is the person believed.

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  • What are we supporting? Human rights. It’s essential that we change the laws that govern us. As I see it, politics has mostly to do with the law. To me this has nothing to do with the two-party system.

    Presidential races aren’t races and aren’t political, they’re just television drama designed to distract us from the real stuff around us, namely human rights issues and racism. Discrimination runs rampant. Why are we turning the other way?

    The election dramas aren’t races to see who is fastest, but who collects the most states’ support via voting. Or who can rig the election better and get away with it.

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  • Justin, thanks for posting this. I think this is self-evident, actually. Treatment is mostly abusive. Yet when we leave, and damn our treators, or try to sue, the surrounding communities are not helpful, nor are most of our friends and families, and certainly most of us can’t even get legal recourse. So no wonder people kill themselves!

    Oh, if you can find a friend who supports you and who understands how horrible it was, you probably are much better off. Same with the exceptional therapist who might be supportive and recognize the trauma effect. Otherwise, you’re pretty much fucked over.

    I got kicked out of my church, shamed in my community, my family didn’t support me, I lost almost all my friends AGAIN, and certainly the System told me I was making it up or “paranoid.” I was threatened and attempted force drugged. Hey, facts are facts. Abuse is abuse, it’s not a matter of “not liking it,” It was ABUSE. And no recourse, no way to sue, and no damn apology. They were not “just doing their job.” They were cruel, deliberately harmful, and I am not backing down on that one.

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  • Oldhead, in my experience, those that advertise their “perfect mental health” or “having their sh*t together” usually are so stuck up on themselves that I can’t stand being around them. It’s almost like delusions of grandeur, and many “mental health professionals” seem to be this way, sadly. I have always disliked boasting. I find it offensive. I’d rather hear someone say they aren’t perfect. Let’s see who throws the first stone.

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  • Thanks, Noel. I agree that if a trauma is validated by the surrounding community the person is less likely to suffer from that trauma. Even yesterday I had a note in my inbox from some stranger telling me what a sinner I was because I identified as being opposed to psychiatry. So do I get the same hate mail if I am opposed to war and genocide?

    I am awaiting validation. I was abused in a hospital and by an abusive, controlling therapist, and still no recourse, no apology, nothing that sounds like love and affirmation. I’m still called a sinner or at least “negative,” which is hate speech in my opinion. What happened happened, nothing biased about the facts.

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  • Never mind those who became psychotic entirely due to drugs given for non-psychotic conditions.

    Never mind those of us disabled by ECT, who could barely put a sentence together afterward. We, too, were called hopeless cases.

    Having observed the System as “patient” for three-and-a-half decades, I think I saw enough. By the way, as patient, I accumulated far more “contact hours” than any physician I know. I tested out these drugs myself, and stayed on them for decades, observing the outcome, and observing long-term outcome in others, most of them dead now. Who is the authority here?

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  • Dear Mr Popper, Have you ever been called severely mentally ill? If so, we’re you prescribed the usual cocktail? Are you still on your cocktail? Many of those who post here were categorized as “severe, ” myself included. Who determines which of us are Walking Wounded and which are Hard Cases enough to be called severe? Which factors determine this distinction? I was on three antipsychotics simultaneously, each at its highest dose or superclinically prescribed.

    Of those of us called Severe, we fall into one of several categories. 1. We were misheard or misinterpreted, 2. Our severe states were (or would have been) temporary, 3. Our status as severe was drug induced, 4. Our severe status was exacerbated by physical factors (malnutrition, hormones, tumors, viruses), or 5. We learned to embrace our experience.

    Agreeably, many suffer. I doubt that the degree of one’s suffering has much to do with severity as determined by the psychiatric profession.

    Personally, my observation tells me that Severe is determined by number of admissions and the financial burden the patient places on the attending institutions, and of course, number of pills he dutifully takes each day.

    Many of us that post here were called Severe and beyond hope. I got news for you. The Doctor was Wrong.

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  • I love this article and will share it! When I saw the photo, a familiar scene to me, I was not only brought back to it, but I thought of a gas chamber because the room seemed to be so isolating that for sure, it could be airtight.

    I remember such rooms in the most prestigious facilities in the world. Massachusetts General Hospital’s psych ER, for one. Boston Medical Center had the worst psych ER in the city in my opinion, MGH not far behind. I have been held in many such rooms, even though I was not violent. Certainly, while confined I had no intentions of acting on suicidal notions at all, knowing that getting caught could lead to indefinite confinement.

    Ninety-nine percent of the time, whenever I had a thought or desire to do suicide, it lasted 20 minutes. Such notions had resolved in my mind by the time I was even triaged. If I phoned my doctor, the thoughts were often gone by the time the doc called back. I remember taking myself to such places simply because I couldn’t get anyone to call me back!

    Showing up was embarrassing! ! What was I doing there? Sometimes I was so guilt-ridden for even showing up that I told them I was suicidal anyway, just to avoid the demeaning “lecture” they’d give telling you you were wasting their time and taking up bed space. I guess they never realized that many people show up looking for caring and a listening ear, simply because they don’t know where else to go.

    I do have advice for anyone who ends up in such a place. Ask to speak with clergy or your attorney if you have one. Not all facilities have clergy on duty, but many do. While their aim is to isolate you and torture you, they must make exception for clergy and attorneys.

    Looking back over three decades of psych hospitalizations I recall that only rarely did I speak with clergy while inpatient but every time I did, they were immensely helpful. Their orientation was not that I was a person who needed fixing, but a human being like any other who had questions and wanted to hash something out.

    One clergy, an older one on duty at around 2am, told me we both needed to face the facts. She knew, and I knew, that I was stuck there for the time being. Maybe they’d let me out in the morning but that decision depended on THEIR inner administrative needs, such as insurance, perceived liability, and the power plays between staff over which I had no control. I decided to take advantage of the time spent alone. The clergy person convinced the staff to let me have a pencil and pad of paper. To me, at that moment, I was empowered. Writing transcended everything. In my pen was power beyond those walls, beyond imprisonment, beyond their cruelty. It still is.

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  • It sounds like this person is doing you terrible harm. I see some shrinks as having likewise done harm to people, by gaslighting, jeering, force or coercion, sectioning, drugging, or imprisoning innocent people. My former shrinks gave me kidney disease then lied about it. They damaged my brain with shock and lied about it. And more. I still have trauma I am working to resolve.

    I recommend getting away and ending a relationship that is harmful. After leaving my shrinks I still feel the effects, especially the therapy abuse. I have heard it takes a long, long time, even after a hurtful person is completely out of your life. I don’t see them as toxic. They stand by their false beliefs, and/or they’re power-mongers, and/or simply do not care about their patients, upholding money over human life. I have no explanation as to why some, or most, of my former providers were so cruel. I do know though, that they weren’t infected nor radioactive. They were cruel, and treated me horribly, and never apologized nor even acknowledged what they did. Do yourself a favor and any way you can, get away from him. Some domestic abuse organizations do not psychiatrize people, until of course they sell out or run out of funding.

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  • I absolutely do not support that type of behavior nor do I feel it is even worthy of defense. However, I choose not to use the word toxic at all. I do not see any scientific basis for believing any human is actually poisonous. I would suggest getting away from someone who harms you, or tends to act in a harmful manner. I don’t see any real poison except when a person perhaps carries a very contagious virus. A real virus. Or somehow is has picked up dangerous radioactivity. I hear that can happen during war time. Bad behavior isn’t a real virus, nor radioactivity that’s so toxic that someone will drop dead simply because he/she is in proximity. If that’s true, then anyone deemed “toxic” should never ride a bus and never take a plane ride and most likely shouldn’t even go to a workplace lest the others drop dead or get sick. Show me the actual poison, the physical alteration that makes a person cause others to become ill or have a fever. Lepers, apparently, were so contagious that they had to be quarantined. To use a classification and to say that some are toxic and “the rest of us” are not, I see a dangerous dichotomy here, and that, to me, is really eugenics. What do you propose be done with a person who behaves badly? Imprisonment? Isolation on an island, fake hospital, or in a prison camp? Or outright killing them?

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  • Nomadic, If I ever comment on a person’s “background” I do not call their parents abusive. Only recently I advised my friend not to move in with her parents. I only did this because I felt she would not have enough freedom as an adult child living with parents. I never said her parents were abusive. Even if they worry, that will limit her freedom.

    However, that discussion was completely off MIA. I don’t mean to be accusing, but your constant reference to the Evils of the Middle Class Family is truly offensive. My parents were not abusive, and come to think of it, in my Middle Class neighborhood there were many decent parents. I doubt class has anything to do with child abuse. Nothing, Nomadic. Please do not offend people by claiming their parents are abusive (and middle class, whatever the heck that means) when you don’t know us, nor have you ever met our parents. Just stop, or I fear you’ll be kicked off again.

    Know who jumps to conclusions about parents? Shrinks. Don’t be like them, because frankly, what you are doing is abusing your posting privilege and harming people (who, in turn, stopped reading what you write). Have an open mind.

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  • I had a terrible experience in therapy. However, I do not agree with Nomadic’s generalizations at all! One person’s experience is not the end-all. I regret that I pass over his comments simply because I am tired of his concluding that everyone else is just like him, and that all of us came from the same background. In fact, I find his sweeping generalizations stating that we are all child-abused by our parents to be so non-applicable that it’s offensive.

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  • If perhaps we can agree that it’s dangerous turf to make claim that some are genetically inferior, which is the basis for the biomedical model. But I think it’s presumptuous (and insulting to many of us) to assume “early trauma” is what might cause distress. Why? Because that type of Freudian type thinking blames parents by default. It also allows other, later traumas to be dismissed or even forgiven. I am talking about psych abuse, for one thing. I really have not been the same since I was abused while inpatient at the age of 53. I am 58 now.
    Psychs regularly get off the hook for abuse, calling it “care”. So few of these are reported. A trauma can happen to anyone at any age. Crap, if they’re telling vets they had bad parents or have chemical imbalances that’s like saying war is great, military rape is par for the course, and if you didn’t like it, take these pills and for godsakes don’t ever talk about it, you’ll make us look bad.

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  • Yes, and it takes two to dislike. One whose behavior is objectionable TO ANOTHER, yet may be perfectly okay within the scope of their own culture or belief system.

    Disagreement can only happen if two or more parties’ viewpoints clash. It’s not due to any disorder of one of the parties. To say it is would be disregarding that name-calling involves a relationship between the named and the caller.

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  • Tabita I am going to purchase your book as soon as I am no longer “maxed out,” ha ha. I got it on my list. I am thinking that your daughter’s story may be much like mine, only mine lasted three decades. I can’t believe, looking back, that I spelled out for my providers, those supposed “experts,” precisely what I was going through, I identified it very clearly during each first session. Then, they proceeded to ignore my eating issues, tell me I was “faking” my eating disorder, or tell me it “was not a big deal” or, perhaps, “spoiled rich kids’ disease.” Some jeered at me when I told them rather candidly what I went through. Three decades of that…Kinda unbelievable. Yet I am not the only one.

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  • Oldhead you mentioned a conference in Vermont. I lived in Southwestern Vermont for nine years mostly because I attended Bennington College. I knew a few folks in VT back then whom you may know as well, only I don’t see them around. There was a couple, man and woman, whom I knew who seemed to be leaders. At the time I was brainwashed, so I had no clue. It was my dad who introduced me to this couple. They had phone conferences and although I never met them I spoke with both of them on the phone regularly. I wonder what they thought of their brainwashee in the southern part of the state. I hesitate to mention names. You must know them but I do not see them around.

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  • Sometimes I think those that are actually abolitionists might not use that precise word, but their underlying message is certainly that the system needs to be knocked down, and something entirely different take shape in society.

    I hear the word “change,” but I think really the difference is in the amount of change. At worst, many are calling for more services, more of the same, and for getting more people sucked into it. For sure that’s not the change I want to see! Others may say the System cannot exist as it is now. When I hear the word “genocide” I figure we’re on the same page.

    I want to ask, Is it okay to be an idealist of sorts, hoping for such a radical change? How can such a change happen unless it’s after most of us are dead? Should we not back down, insisting that this ideal happen? Some claim that if our demands are too great, we won’t get anywhere. But is that true?

    I believe MLK, if he were advising us, would have said not to compromise, nor offer to back down at all, that we should stand our ground.

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  • Tabitha, thank you. I’ve been making it my business to tell my story mostly in my blog (Juliemadblogger at WordPress) and wow, it’s been almost 12 years now. Because I told my story up front and honestly, I was persecuted, not only the social rejection which you have so eloquently described here, but persecution from the providers I was still seeing.

    They told me, and tried very hard to convince me of the following. 1) that I was paranoid delusional. 2) that the unit where the abuse occurred did not exist. 3) that I had no medical basis for making my claim. Finally, when it was obvious that by all means I had medical proof that it had not only occurred but that it was a gross human rights abuse that could have killed me (the exact same abuse killed someone in the UK the following year), they tried to illegally silence me. With drugs, outright denial of medical services, and incarceration.

    I am very lucky to escape all that. I keep writing. I won’t stop, either, nor allow any of this unfriending to stop me. I just lose friends and piss people off, but I’d rather write the truth than watered-down euphemisms to please others.

    Yes, it’s a very unpopular road. That’s okay, Puzzle still loves me and nags me daily for morsels of liver.

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  • I’m against state and institutional ownership of people’s bodies. I’m against reliance on the State to choose for us, instead of our taking responsibility making our own choices.

    In short, I’m against force of all kinds.

    In USA much of our history has been about individual or local rights vs the larger-based law such as Federal law. At one point slave owners in the South were claiming their rights to rule locally and own slaves, but Federal law prevailed.

    What happens when local laws are inhumane or unfair? Similarly, what happens when a child is abused? Who steps in to protect that child?

    I would like to see more like tribal communities set up, smaller groups where there’s a real sense of personal caring and commitment, rather than the larger government passing out “handouts” you’re supposed to “qualify” for. Maybe government has just gotten too large, too many people, too much money, too much reliance on these supposed “experts” with MD after their name, that are now held up on pedestals, representing medical corporate rule.

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  • I think it’s also important to realize that many of us had good childhoods. Psychiatry’s default mode is mother-blaming or parent-blaming. While it’s true that some of us did have terrible parents, where does that leave those of us whose trauma happened from outside the family, or later in life, or from psychiatry, diagnosis, and disease-model therapy?

    Back in the 1970’s many people entered therapy out of curiosity only, or because it was starting to get fashionable, or even to impress others of how cool and hip you were. Sadly, some of us got completely sucked in.

    I did have other options. I chose therapy myself, called them and made an appointment, a huge mistake on my part. I was influenced by my “hip” employer who loved therapy and saw it as God’s Gift to Mankind back in the 1970s and 80s, even though for sure I disagreed initially. So I’d say peer pressure got me into it. Ah, that one-way door.

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  • I agree, Nathan. Psychotherapy, if it upholds the disease/defective brain model, even when practiced as taught, is abusive by default. This may be my opinion only, but if we are to endorse peer support or Soteria models, then I think we also need to endorse models that might be called “help” but are totally outside the box. Coaching never uses diagnosis (it’s not taught nor supported) and there are many other models that use professionals that help people.

    Some social workers don’t do therapy nor labeling. They help people find jobs and housing, and help people get out of prison and stay out.

    We cannot discount psychiatrists who are devoted to getting people off meds and getting people OUT of the system, who reject the disease model totally, regardless of original training/brainwashing.

    However, if some of these models induce a new dependency, either emotional or financial, then it’s slavery all over again, right?

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  • Dear Dr Breggin, I was lying in bed thinking about this case. Something popped into my head about what you said about Barberos’ medical visit after he first started Paxil, four years prior to his death. You stated that he did not report to the emergency personnel that he had just started Paxil. But what are we relying on? This man is dead and cannot tell us.

    From what I know of emergency rooms and even in doctors’ offices. most are notorious for failure to communicate and poor keeping of records. I cannot tell you how many times I entered emergency rooms and told them very clearly every drug in the cocktail I was on and the exact doses. What happened many times was that even if these were entered into a computer system, they never put it into their system. I found that my own psychiatrist’s records were years out of date. I can’t tell you how many times I have said “diabetes insipidus” and they’ve written down that I am diabetic. I am not, as diabetes insipidus is a kidney condition and not a blood sugar condition. Recording incorrect spelling of names is common, as is writing down incorrect social security number.

    Is it possible that he told them what he was on, but they failed to record it? This is such a common error. I would say a good 1/3 of the time when I told them what drugs I was on, they didn’t write them down correctly. By the way, I often had to correct the nurses’ spelling of the drugs and inform them of the “classification” and repeat the doses to them. i even had to correct one nurses’ spelling of “anorexia.”

    Many times patients don’t know, when they report these things to personnel in a new place, which people are the important ones to tell. Everyone wears a uniform of sorts and often doctors wear scrubs. Also the workers who provide housekeeping services wear scrubs, and the nurses and the people who bring in the trays. So I ask is it possible that he could have reported that he was taking Paxil to the janitor, without even realizing the janitor wasn’t a doctor or nurse? We patients assume that these places are far more competent than they are. We assume that like in many well-run organizations, communications will be “passed on” to the one who is the decision-maker. Our culture teaches us that doctors can’t possibly screw up. And medical culture refuses to take the blame, but instead, blames the patient or the family.

    Julie

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  • I also refuse to call anyone a psychopath, narcissist, “toxic,” or “negative.” These terms are hate speech. A person may act badly but I do not call that a disease. “Toxic” is a euphemism for mental illness. A pop psychology word that actually means poisonous substance, radioactive, or contaminated with germs, or possibly an overabundance of a substance in one’s body (such a drugs, lead, or mercury). I respect those that wish to avoid people that harm them, by all means, but I do not support disease labeling or quasi-disease labeling. Labeling minimizes the harm, and likewise the suffering people go through.

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  • Wow, many comments here to get through. Thanks for this clarification, Bonnie, I would send it to my friends but they have now become ex-friends. One defriended me over a misunderstanding you have listed above, claiming that if I didn’t call something such as “bipolar” a disease, then surely I must deny that those diagnosed with bipolar are suffering. We all know they are, ESPECIALLY if they also have been put into the psych regime. I am not certain if you mentioned the permanence factor, that psych seals the behaviors and feelings as permanent in the person’s life, when otherwise they would most likely go away on their own, or with support, or have a shorter duration. Psychiatry makes people permanently disabled, and often puts them out of work and in a position where it is nearly impossible to return to the life they truly desire.

    As for myself, I am not against individual psychiatrists (except the ones that harmed me personally and are still basking in the glory). I am against force. I am against coercion. I am against all incarceration including those who have committed crimes. I am against religious prosyletizing, though I am not against a person’s expression of religious or spiritual awakening or joy. i am for the upholding of all humans as worthy. I am against declaring a person mentally incompetent. i am against the push to force people who are less powerful to submit to the wishes of their doctors or the state. I support honesty, transparency, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom from censorship, freedom of information, and similar freedoms.

    The way I see myself in all this is to continue to live as well as I can, and to follow my own ideas of self-reliance, independence, freedom of thought, and responsibility. I find that practicing minimalism is a joy to me. I enjoy my dog and my life. I recently discovered I love to iron my clothes. I am expressing my joy in taking my body back by running a road race in about a month, especially since I was told multiple times that I was incapable. Meanwhile I do everything I can to encourage others to take their bodies back from institutional ownership.

    I find that many mental health professionals are against the things I am for, and for the things I am against.

    I do not see any mental health professionals at all, not as patient. A few are my friends. I worry that the System sucks people back in, tempting people to try those waters of deceit one more time. I can only tell them to be extremely careful, and ensure you have a doorway out at all times.

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  • Thank you!!! I am so grateful that you have done this and the truth has come out.

    The incompetency is so striking in this case! So the psych administered on recommendation of the LPN? I myself went to LPN school. They get one year of training before they can work and about a week of psych classes total. It’s mostly training in how to change a bed, how to lift patients and transfer, and how to take blood pressure. They usually forget their A&P (anatomy and physiology) after their training.

    Thanks as well to the judge and jury of this case who used common sense instead of relying on misconceptions regarding those who are incarcerated.

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  • I love this article. Good luck in the future and stay away from those places!

    I don’t remember which of those four letters I am, but I recall “determined” as being part of it. I don’t put any stake in that, nor in astrology. My astrological sign also says I’m rather headstrong. I don’t remember any of my DSM diagnoses saying I had any positive qualities at all! All they did was find stuff supposedly “wrong” with me. I saw a psychic when I was 21 in 1979 and I’d say that guy was more on target. A street psychic in Los Angeles. For three bucks. I should have stopped all that self-exploration stuff after that. Therapy seemed too self-indulgent until I got sucked into it.

    I am not surprised that one more person was harmed by the System. Thanks for this great article.

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  • I strongly feel that it’s a human rights abuse that these “professionals” claim to know more about their patients’ minds than the patients themselves. It’s a form of discrediting the individual while giving the professionals far too much power. For this reason, I feel that if a person wants help, the most effective help out there is going to be through egalitarian relationships. The power of listening and caring is the key to healing, well over any professional technique that may be out there. I heard there are currently 200 varieties of “therapy.” In my opinion, we need to strengthen community at this point. If community members are pouring their souls out in offices it will weaken community, break up marriages, and the family structure will head toward oblivion. It has already happened to so many of us.

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  • Dear Borut Rudl, I asked the exact same question a while back. Why do we not call it anti-Mental Health System? I was quite pleased with the answer, which I will now relate to you or anyone who may be asking the same question.

    I believe it was Lauren Tenney who explained it to me. The MH System is based on psychiatry. This means psychiatry, which is backed by the State and arm-in-arm with the foster care system and penal systems, reigns over the entire System. It rules over how many traditional illness-based modalities of therapy are done, over the learned helplessness we acquire from being in the System, and psychiatry creates the deadly syndrome “Revolving Door.”

    Outside of this mainstream we see non-DSM-based practices, such as peer support and the Hearing Voices Network, among others. As a whole, we support these practices that are humane and uphold human rights. Although our beliefs are varied, most of us strongly oppose the use of force and coercion.

    I hope I have explained properly.

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  • Oldhead I tend to ignore comments that are clearly misinterpreting the writing of the blog writer. It’s kinda fruitless to argue such points.

    As for trolls on here, that I know of, many come here thinking we’re a bunch of nuts “off meds.” I guess they are too closed-minded to be capable of understanding the logic here.

    When I was a young kid in college I learned you cannot reason with a person who is drunk. Likewise, you cannot reason with a troll.

    Julie

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  • Frank, I agree. No contact, at least not in the patient role. I do know many who are leaving, that is, cutting down gradually on contact with “them,” but not yet fully accomplished this.

    When I left i pretty much did the same. Dropped one, dropped another, via excuses, lies, canceling, and moving away. I recall once I ditched a provider by saying I had relocated, but hadn’t yet!

    A great technique that I found is convincing is: “I can’t talk right now because I am in a public location. Can i call you back in an hour or so?” Then don’t call back!

    Or, “I am headed to a funeral and need to reschedule. I’ll get back to you.” Don’t.

    Or, “Oh I called the psychiatrist you referred me to and am awaiting a callback.” You didn’t, but saying that will get you off the hook.

    Or, “Yes, I filled out that form to get my old records sent to you. You should be getting them shortly.” You didn’t, but they’ll probably never catch up.

    Ah, the escape methods are numerous! Time to get super creative!

    Julie

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  • I am thrilled that this is happening! Kudos to the U of Toronto for supporting this! I noticed during my lengthy enslavement to psychiatry that any education of slaves and any exercising of Freedom of Speech by slaves was immediately squelched, drugged, or nipped in the bud by incarceration and scare tactics.

    This means this scholarship is hitting where it counts. Bravo and keep it up!

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  • I agree. I have an MFA in Creative Writing which qualifies me to teach writing at the university level. When I teach writing to survivors I de-emphasize “Writing to Heal” since to do so would imply that something is damaged and needs healing. Survivors have heard the Broken narrative too much already! Instead, I emphasize Empowerment. I emphasize Freedom of Speech. I emphasize writing as an Act, not as something some broken soul does to fix themselves. Writing is an act of self-empowerment through communication to an audience, and interaction with that audience. Even writing we do that we choose not to share, such as journaling, the implied audience is always present.

    I encourage people to use this powerful method of communicating to reach out, to inform, to transform, to enlighten others, and to bring about understanding. Writing is a gift you send out into the world. We cannot control where it lands. I know when I write if I can shake up my audience, even infuriated my readers, then I have succeeded to enlighten.

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  • I agree totally with this blog post. It’s kinda obvious, isn’t it? Disenfranchisement on any societal level happens for a reason. I highly doubt it is ever entirely from “within.” In fact, my guess is that disenfranchisement is 90% caused by outer forces that act on the individual.

    We cannot be too quick to assume the family is at fault, either. I have spoken to many survivors who tell me they came from intact and happy families that were attacked by outside influence such as psychiatry. This is a powerful influence that attacks on so many fronts that even the healthiest of families will break down. Another example might be that of a child who is deeply harmed by a non-family member such as a sports coach, boss, sex partner, or other kids. Sadly, psychiatry’s default is to blame the parents. Parents might know they are not at fault, and then, grab hold of the “chemical imbalance” theory just to fend of the accusations of the therapists, or the Patient Under the influence of therapy. It’s a cozy little answer that digs that patient deeper into the hole of the Revolving Door Syndrome.

    MH “care” creates Treatment Ghettos. Most of us have lived in them, and know it’s a way to isolate patients and keep them ignorant. It’s a great persuasive technique, too.

    Leaving MH “care” we are stripped of not only the surrounding “ghetto,” which now sees us as a “dangerous” challenge to their false notion of “mental illness,” but we are also seen as a threat in society in general since we defy the notion that patients must be medically subdued forever, or else we are “untreated” brutes to be feared and loathed.

    For me at least, that led to two years of silence, no conversation at all, period. People kept me at arm’s length and would only “text.” All I wanted was to be seen as human.

    I credit MH “care” for destroying the social skills I possessed already. Now, I am working to get that back. Even carrying on a conversation these days presents a huge challenge for me. This was by all means not the case before MH abused me.

    What I do, when I can, is to practice with customer service people and tech support. I need to practice the very basics. Don’t interrupt. Don’t repeat myself. Make my point and then stop, don’t go on and on as if at any moment, “they” will be rude, roll their eyes, or cut me off abruptly. And I have to realize that THERE ARE NO STAFF now. I don’t need to constantly back up everything I say. MH “care” meant I was rarely believed, seen as “delusional.” This is why I tend to get defensive when I don’t need to. It’s a tough habit to break.

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  • Wow, Susan, I had read about this but didn’t know the entire story from the “insider” point of view. The various correspondences between activists and the administrators (or PR people) of these amusement parks is especially interesting…..

    As for horror literature, I can comment on that from a writer’s point of view. I personally know a few horror writers and I went to grad school with them, learned alongside them how to write this stuff, and why, exactly, horror writers choose this genre.

    Good quality horror writing, like any other decent writing, is not reliant on gimmicks. There is real depth to it. Those that write horror often tell me that their aim, as writers, is exactly the same as mine: “I want to move the reader from Point A to Point B.” And in doing so, the most effective writing is bound to disturb readers, shake up what they know to be their reality. Isn’t the aim of all writing to illustrate a new way of viewing the world around us? While horror is indeed disturbing, it also does exactly what writers set out to do.

    I’ve been planning for some time a sort of Halloween act. This would be scary since that’s what Halloween is for. I plan to scare people half to death, “If choose to submit to traditional ‘mental health’ care, this is the scary stuff that will happen to you!”

    Wait a minute…I think I’ve been doing exactly that for years. I encourage anyone else to do the same, and commend those who have been brave enough to speak out and tell the true horror stories of what our lives have been like. Never, ever shut up.

    (Susan if you could contact me via email I’d appreciate it. [email protected]. Thanks.)

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  • Thank goodness MIA is finally publishing articles on eating disorders! About time! This little corner of the MH world usually falls between the cracks badly.

    I, too, stopped using the word “recovery.” I do not say “recovered” nor “fully recovered.” By all means suffering sucks, I agree, but sometimes it’s unavoidable and much of it passes on its own.

    I am much older than you. Because back in those days ED was not recognized at all (prior to Karen Carpenter’s death) I got psychiatry and therapy, but they refused to recognize my ED. Some of those fools even said I was “faking ED.” So of course it got worse due to psychiatry itself.

    My experience of ED “care” after three decades when they finally figured it out was that it was abusive. It made me worse. They did, at one point, literally revive me, and then in the hospital abused me very badly. They didn’t even inform me that I had coded. For me, I know the anorexia itself was traumatic, knowing I might die if I couldn’t stop it, but the worse part was the abuse in the hospital. It has been three years now, and I am still so shook up over it.

    I wish I could just cry over it. The accusations, giving me the wrong pills, calling me a liar when I wasn’t, calling me suicidal when I wasn’t, shoving me, physical and sexual abuse, stealing from me, discrediting, eye-rolling, gossiping in my presence, and then, telling me they had only kept me alive because they didn’t want a lawsuit.

    I tried to sue, but with so many people who used to be my friends now condemning me, I couldn’t. I lost so many friends. I continue to lose them. The abuse ruined my ability to make and keep friends, and wrecked my conversational skills.

    I don’t see myself as an exception. The trauma from care is not addressed, so this causes so many suicides after release. Most ED “care” is not luxury kiddie horse farms.

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  • For me, every time I am in a group and some “leader” asks the group, “Close your eyes” I am reminded of those groups in the hospitals and I cannot do it, it’s like I have a flashback or something. I also dislike it whenever someone gets all pushy about meditating. Honestly it isn’t the answer for everyone! Pushing it on other people is like pushing a religion on people, or pushing people to go to a gym when they don’t want to, or pushing an ideology. I truly believe in Freedom of Thought in that sense. Meditating is not life-sustaining, not for me anyway, and many live their entire lives very happy without it. I get very angry over this because of past traumas with abusive therapists, and because pushiness is wrong anyway.

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  • I have learned that “malpractice” is a buzzword. Do not ever say it. It is as bad as the S word, which is the recipe for the security guard. Malpractice gets you labeled paranoid. Unless you are talking to an attorney, don’t use the word. But think it plenty and if you see something, say something……. On yelp, on Facebook, in your blog, here on MIA, in a TED talk, but not in the presence of a mandatory reporter.

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  • Stephen, I found the exact same thing in 1982. My ow mother went and did research. I went to my doctors and mentioned this research and not only did I get blank stares but they were unable to spell the terminology! I had to dictate the spelling to them so they could look these studies up themselves. Decades later I was still spelling various words to nurses, such as anorexia and bulimia. And if I say diabetes insipidus they never hear Insipidus and insist on a finger stick. Hey, it’s not mellitus…… I don’t understand why I, a music composer (originally) can figure this stuff out so quickly and easily, and they were just so clueless for all those years.

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  • I was answering your question about what to do about it, that’s all. I sure wasn’t accusing you of labeling. Of course not! But labeling and psych labeling, these are very close to each other. There are ways to call a person “mentally ill” but use alternate terms that are just as harmful, and just as discriminatory.

    For instance, if an employer perceives an employee as mentally ill, then that employer might fire based on perceived mental illness, but it’s illegal to do so under the ADA. But how to do this and pass off as legal and okay?

    That employer might use vocabulary such as, “We can’t have your negative energy here.” It’s a way of saying, “We perceive you as personality-disordered but we don’t want to admit it, (and you’re fired).”

    When I was a kid my parents taught me not to call other kids names. Believe it or not, I learned from that. I learned that name-calling of all types was wrong. I took that very seriously. It’s a good lesson to teach any child. And why not?

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  • In my opinion, David, to answer your question, kids should be kept away from all mental health labeling. I think the emphasis should be very basic at a young age, like at toddler age. DO NOT LABEL. This includes any name-calling, such as the ones we know well like slow-poke, class clown, lazy….as these imply permanence, like they are disorders. Many of the words we use in common language are actually euphemisms for mental illness, such as “negative,” “bad energy,” “bad karma,” and also, “energy vampires,” by the way, NONE OF THIS IS REAL…..To tell someone this is so harmful. It is only a statement meaning “I do not like something about you.” Why don’t people just say it outright? Or not at all. Using a harmful label is bigotry. This should be taught to very young kids. They should be taught that “bipolar,” “schiz,” etc, these are also harmful labels and no one should be called these. a
    Very young children should be taught that feelings such as grief are not diseases, even though you can feel sad when you are sick with a cold or flu. All these will pass. Because it will pass, you do not need pills to change a feeling. Kids should be told at a young age that bad and good feelings aren’t diseases.

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  • Please TELL them Loud and Clear. You have so much more power than we survivors do. We’ve been called crazy. You haven’t (yet).

    Essentially, David G, you and I are two reasonable human beings, maybe even close to the same age (I’m likely older). You didn’t get suckered into it. I did. We’re both intelligent, have common sense, and are educated people. I have tons of college behind me, as I am sure you do. Yet I have no credibility due to my (ahem) history of my dealings with those shrinks.

    Therefore, your word, as above, holds far more weight than mine, or any of ours, those of us who got nabbed. Tell them! Tell them just how incompetent they are. Tell them their guesswork cannot be used on us anymore. Tell them their playtime is up. If they are going to keep Guinea Pigs, they cannot keep maiming, poisoning, shocking, torturing and killing us. Why? Because they feel more powerful torturing furry little creatures? Please call the Great Humane Society in the Sky Deus Ex Machina on these delinquents before more Guinea Pigs die. Or…Heavens, the Guinea Pigs actually start a Revolution.

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  • Wow, So this is new research? They very often give Prozac to kids with eating disorders. Anorexia in particular will cause lowering of estrogen, stopping of periods and subsequent thinning of bones. Both males and females can be affected but for kids, growth is affected. Bones grow unevenly, kids don’t grow, bones can be so fragile that they break even when a person hasn’t fallen. So adding Prozac may worsen the problem…..I myself had severe bone thinning from Risperdal due to Prolactin increase. It’s the same thing that causes male breasts. Imipramine will also increase prolactin. I took that and noticed the prolactin problem but stopped after less than a year.

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  • “We trust the medical profession far too much. We think they know way more than they do. In a weekend of research, I became more knowledgeable than my daughter’s therapist, psychiatrist and pediatrician combined; at least with regards to SSRIs, their efficacy and adverse side effects. These professionals are human and fallible like the rest of us. The key is to educate yourself and your children. ”

    Reading these words, which in fact sum up about what I tell my friends and my readers just about daily, is so validating to me, especially as written by a non-patient who hasn’t been “labeled” as “crazy” as I have. It doesn’t take rocket science nor magic to understand this stuff. Doctors are not gods on high. They need to quit acting like Gods on High, too. I have personally witnessed exactly how they make decisions. I have even watched them flipping through the PDR looking at pretty pill-photos and then, picking out shiny ones for each of us as if they are ordering from a Sears Roebuck Catalog. They are not gods. They are not geniuses.

    It doesn’t take the all-holy MD degree, which somehow gives them magic Legal Indeminty Above All (they’re right no matter what) to figure this stuff out. Just because a doctor acts all haughty and claims to be an “expert” only means he’s arrogant and is charging you money.

    That is why I encourage people to take their bodies back and stop being slaves to doctors.

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  • Hey Rassulus thanks for your input on that topic. I agree it’s oppression. I also notice that the profession seriously lacks insight into the human condition. I also note that any claim to know the patient’s inner world is completely bogus. Now there’s where they seriously lack insight, since they have no insight into anything going on inside a person’s mind, certainly no more “expertise,” than, say, the patient’s best friend, or the patient’s mom, or sister, or by all means the patient her/himself. if only these mental health “professionals” listened, but they tend not to. Oh, for a few seconds, but that’s the extent of it and then they cut you off mid-sentence, roll their eyes, make some dismissive gesture, and claim they listened. As we know.

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  • Also, people in other states have to realize the economic disparity. Prices and cost of living in Massachusetts, New York, Rhode Island, Connecticut, and that general area are much higher. Just go look if you ever go to Boston. Check out how well the roads are paved, the smooth sidewalks, the manicured parks and gardens. These governments have more money than in other parts of the country where they cannot fund a public library, where unemployment is so much higher, where people can barely heat or cool their homes, where they can barely afford to have the trash collected or pay the rent. In Massachusetts they might complain about yards not looking nice enough, or complain about the flowers in a yard not being ADA compliant or being the wrong religion or any religion or not sanitized enough, while the rest of the country cannot afford a yard, and that yard is being taken by the bank, let alone plant flowers in it.

    Meanwhile when I lived in MA I noticed the medical services were all run by Harvard, which is expanding and getting more and more powerful and scary, and the drug companies were huge there. In Boston, a hospital on every block. Supposedly, state-of-the-art. For the rich, not the poor. My friends waited for months and couldn’t get anything but assembly-line “treatment” and there was no information about alternatives, or they just didn’t want us to find out that such alternatives existed. A friend of mine moved to down south, feeling ill-served by the System, and told me she liked the relaxed atmosphere better.

    Harvard bought out Cooley Dickinson in Northampton as well, and facilities in NH and I think Maine, too. I tell my pro-psych friends this is a very bad sign, but they will not listen and because they seem addicted to appointments and cocktails, they fall for the hype, believing that it’s really going to get better.

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  • Sera it was great hearing you “live” last night and I am very happy you pointed out the Boston Globe Spotlight response website you folks put up. That’s a great idea. I am debating going back to Facebook just to connect but my FB experience always turns out so terrible, not from MIA people but from the pro-psychiatry folks that never fail to write stuff that I have a hard time tolerating. Some of the stuff they write is really, really mean. On the other hand, many events are announced on FB. Dang, how much I wish people would just pick up the phone and call me and say hello (my USA phone number works fine and doesn’t cost any more than any other Massachusetts phone number, which I have said many times). But now it’s all Facebook and conversation is out of fashion.

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  • Nomadic, I was not a minor when I went to the Farm. I was 26 years old. The decision to go to the Farm was a joint decision between me and my parents based on the propaganda of the Farm, mostly my own decision. I also went for an overnight to “try out” the Farm. My parents were not present for this overnight. I was, and I was the one who spoke with the director myself, as a 26-year-old competent adult. I was sold their goods. My parents, unfortunately, paid the bill. Later on, I found out the truth, that the place was not what they said they were.

    Also, I did indeed have a problem. I had very serious eating problems that were never addressed nor even acknowledged. I had just tried to kill myself because those eating problems had not been addressed by my former providers. I nearly died a few years ago for the exact same reason. Yes it was a problem, a problem that psychiatry has no business treating, and has no relevance nor is helpful. I really don’t have any desire to argue this one with you any longer, Nomadic.

    I do not appreciate it when you impose your very limited ideas about the world on me or on others here. It is not helping me. In fact, it’s a nuisance reading your posts, which impose on me and others. Please realize that not all of us grew up the way you did. We grew up in all different ways, in different cultures, in a variety of settings. We are different people and we have many types of challenges in our lives. We cannot be judged based on your standards nor can we solve our problems based on your solutions that very well may only work for you. We each need to find our own, leave us be.

    No person can say, “My way is the normal way,” or, “My way is the way everyone is.” It’s simply not true. We have all perhaps been guilty at one time of judging others based on the standards with which we were raised, but later on, we learn to open our minds a bit. I suggest you try doing that.

    Julie

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  • Sera I wrote to the DMH at the address you indicated on your website. I want to send you a copy of the email I sent. It outlines the (ahem) compliant I filed and the massive action taken by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts on my behalf. Oh my goodness they sure served me well and indicated they care (not) about human rights of patients. This is in response to the Sept 16 deadline.

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  • If we call it “broken” does it really matter? What matters is how that brokenness (it’s only a word, by the way) is responded to. Will it be responded to by pouring more money into these concepts that do not work and are inhumane?

    Shall we keep putting more funding into cars with engines made with explosives that are unsafe to drive? These are bad cars? So we need more exploding cars! Yeah, there’s such a need for transportation, the people are crying out to the government, they’re so, so needy! Look at them all in that waiting room!

    Why don’t we give away these wonderful exploding cars to poor people? Market them to blacks and women, too. Shine them up to look nice in any color they want. One exploded? Too bad, must have been the fault of the driver. Patent running out? Uh oh, let’s stop calling them Fords and remarket them as Escorts. We can’t let this go generic…..Market them to kids under 5 to keep up those numbers……Kiddie seats for all right on top of the dynamite. Well, poor people don’t like changing diapers anyway. If anyone makes trouble, shoot ’em.

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  • Diane it’s amazing how they consistently miss the point, isn’t it? I hear so many stories like that. You’d think they were doing it deliberately!

    I find it interesting that you know your end date for the drugs. Do others? I don’t know my quit date for cigarettes, either, but that was a long time ago. I find it funny when doctors want you to write your start and quit dates on forms.

    “So when did you stop psychiatric drugs?” And how soon will they be asking that one? Will we ever see that on medical forms?

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  • It’s far more important to be diagnosis-free than it is to be drug-free. What’s a drug? Most psych drugs, by definition, are psych drugs because they are prescribed via prescription and the prescribed person is automatically given a DSM diagnosis by the prescriber, who now has total control over the slave.

    A drug alone does not have that much power. The exact same drugs are marketed on the streets. They are sold diagnosis-free, doctor-free, appointment-free, and pusher aside, you aren’t tied to a medical institution for life. That plus, think about it. It’s a pill. Without the power of the presciber saying, “You need this drug,” what kind of power does a pill have? Nothing.

    Ditch the diagnosis. As far as pills are concerned, they’re pretty, so maybe make them into artwork and then sell it on Etsy. After all, didn’t they teach us how to make bracelets out of beads in those prisons? Most of us are experts if we didn’t get totally disgusted. Better yet, now that most of us are still stuck on disability due to damages done by these docs, why not sell the leftover pills and make a killing? Just don’t report the profits on your tax return or you might see lockup yet one more time.

    On the other hand, isn’t marketing drugs to suckers what our doctors did? They sure set a great example.

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  • Yep, that’s about what they did to me, made everything I said into a disorder. Told me I was incompetent, therefore, anything I said was wrong by default. A lose-lose situation. Of course, designed that way, the longer you stay in, the worse it gets.

    You leave, or you die. Pretty much.

    Thank you so, so much for validating every single moment for me. Yes, that’s what happens. No, I didn’t make it up, nor did any of us, and no, we are not some “exceptions” who had unusually bad care, either. It’s all that way.

    Julie

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  • Well, gee, Sera, I guess being a McLean grad I can add that as stripes on my uniform, eh? Having all those Boston prisons on my resume might land me some lucrative position someday, but I’m still waiting for my paycheck to come in.

    It is, in fact, already. The wealth is in the thousands of words we write, in our true feelings about what happened to us, in our very real anger and grief over the years that were stolen from our lives, and our expression of that grief. We might as well cherish the enlightenment we had, that painful moment of realization of the mistakes we made, the knowledge that we fell for the biggest scam out there, and our admission that we were wrong. So few get to that point of turnaround. They die first, or die when that knowledge finally reaches them. I am lucky to have a few years left now to live as a free person.

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  • Sera, as you know, I was raised in Massachusetts, graduated from Lexington High School in 1975, and did most of my time in the MA penal system as psych inmate. I did much time at McLean and other rather inept fake hospitals. The only thing they do well are the glossy advertisements and other scammy stuff they put out. Oh, the tunnels are kinda neat to sneak around in if you aren’t in shackles.

    I would LOVE to meet you someday. I love your writing and I love the way you knock down the Globe’s lies. Bet we would have a lot to talk about. I am very sorry I missed you on Talk with Tenney the other night. I didn’t know ahead of time. Contact me anytime. Julie

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  • Nomadic, that is absolutely not true. Gould Farm looked like heaven and by all means it was not my parents’ intention to abuse. You are reading things into my story that weren’t there. They wanted only the best for me. Remember, I, too, wanted some “cure” since by all means the other docs had totally blown it. The place promised Getting Back To Nature. They all do. It was expensive for 1984, $50 a day, which was costly for back then. We had to work 6 hours a day and take our pills and not complain. I recall backbreaking work, shoveling snow, which I hated, for six hours, frostbiting my feet, trying to carry pails of maple syrup and spilling it all over myself and not daring to complain about how freezing cold I was. I remember having to “waitress” at their coffee shop and then, getting fired since I am not cut out to be a waitress. I cannot work fast-paced jobs since I don’t know my right from my left. They wouldn’t let us use our brains, ever. Almost as if our brains were now deemed completely useless. I had been a music prodigy and I wondered where all that had gone off to. We were also prevented from forming friendships.

    My parents and I were completely caught off guard. They did not treat ED as I had hoped and refused to acknowledge that I had ED. So I had to live with it while I was there and hope I got better by magic. I am sure if my parents had the money they would have helped me get elsewhere. We simply had no clue what to do. It wasn’t heaven, it wasn’t magic, it wasn’t that dream summer camp they promised. If anyone abused, it was the idiot doctors who refused to listen, the System that put me there, the doctor that had caused my suicide attempt, the previous providers that had failed me over and over, and those professionals that had already deceived me and my parents plenty.

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  • I was once sent to a farm for rich kids. It didn’t cost nearly that much because it was 1984. My poor parents thought the place was The Answer. The Great Summer Camp for mental cases that would save the day. I can tell you it was a huge disappointment. Believe it or not I telephoned my folks every chance I could get, crying and pleading with them to please put me in a hospital, that is how much I hated it. We all did. So much for rich kids camp. I was happy for the gal who thumbed out of there but the staff told us all she was manic. I got out as soon as I could. Some people stayed for life. So sad. Julie

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  • Bradford, Eating disorders don’t have one cause, but many find that food allergies contribute. Also, many therapists do not take into account food likes and dislikes, how food is viewed culturally, things like that. Many patients go for years and food isn’t even discussed! In fact, many times they don’t even let you mention food! Many times, the therapists are uncomfortable discussing it themselves, and are totally clueless in fact, they don’t know a damn thing, or they’ve got very serious eating issues themselves. It is rarely caused by “bad mother,” as was traditionally thought, though a few of us (as proportion to the general population) do have bad mothers. Sadly, therapists try that route first. They might bully you into confessing you’re a perfectionist, when in fact, again, we aren’t any more perfectionist than anyone else. It’s only a stereotype.

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  • Julia, I would love to read your book! I recently took my memoir off the market so that I can re-publish it and make it available at a more affordable price, so it should be back up there fairly soon for cheaper than it was. I am sure that writing about your experience infuriated them. Good! And the fact that you continue to speak out and voice your strong opinion…Oh, they hate that we write and hate that we actually remember so well! Shucks, they couldn’t stop us…..

    And imagine now they are saying “oh gee, it DID matter to those subhuman brutes, and they DID have real feelings, after all…Uh oh….”

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  • Yeah boans, I laugh because fairly recently a person told me (this person was only a vague acquaintance, not a friend) that he couldn’t possibly associate with me for HIS SAFETY given that I was “untreated mentally ill.” Wow I kept wondering which one of us was the danger! I realized how important it was for ME to stay away from this person, to avoid on all costs. If he perceived me to be a danger, well, then maybe he needs to deal with HIS anxiety and I need to RUN away from his dangerous feelings. I mean, after all, people like that could “blow” any minute and call the MH cops. Although acting like a nut as he was I wonder if they’d just haul him in and not bother with lil ole me and my harmless dog. Neighbor turning in neighbor in the days of the Police State……

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  • Alex, my very first stand-up comedy was based on “Family therapy,” and yes, it was taken right out of Real Life. About word for word, except I had to pause to let the audience laugh. From what I recall I used a compound, generic character for the therapist and, I was me and…Oh, never mind, I was all the characters! It was one of the most hilarious things I ever did, and I would recommend it to anyone. It is a great alternative to a huge lawsuit. Laugh last.

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  • Unfortunately, we’ve got the plethora of blind worshipers. I suspect they’ll all either come over to our side or drown in the Kool Aid they are being handed. I say this knowing I was Queen Blind Worshiper. Praised for my high level of Compliance. Go to the Head of the Class….Geez, I should have gone there and dropped off a bag of dog poop. I always believed in recycling stuff.

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  • I am amazed that in other professions, such as computer repair or auto mechanics, one mechanic can say, “Hey, Dave down the street put the wrong part in your car!” and he can then replace your wrong part with the correct one. Maybe he might say, “Too bad Dave cut corners like that, I’ve heard similar complaints from other customers, too!” This happens with home repairs all the time. Your plumber comes and tells you the last guy did a bad job. Does this ever happen in medicine? No! Even if the new doctor (or therapist) KNOWS the last one harmed terribly, they refuse to admit it! This is so consistent and across the board. For instance, we’re finding that neuros will admit to ECT damages but will refuse to admit that the damage could possibly be caused by ECT, even if it means they make completely contradictory statements. As I said in my article the bone damages from Risperdal were noted and then, covered up. They will continue to back each other, never admitting a DOCTOR or HOSPITAL could possibly do harm. So if you ever tell them you were harmed, you are called paranoid by default.

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  • I don’t know why I am not fond of the term “distress” but I choose not to use the various euphemisms that sometimes the Peer movement has used to tone down when they really mean to say “mental illness” but want to be nice about it. That bugs the heck out of me. I look back on my years as mental patient and I call it either mental patient (which is what it was) or maybe Medical Commodity. I don’t validate “illness” either. People do behave badly sometimes. I am deeply embarrassed by some of my past bad behavior and some of it amuses me now, since it happened long ago. I’ve tried to apologize.

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  • Another thing we need to insist upon (now that I think of it) is when these deaths do occur, NO MORE COVERUP. It happens more often than anyone wants to admit. Of course the institutions rush to blame the patient, or “just bad luck.” Or call it suicide, or slow suicide, or claim the person “didn’t take care of himself” or just brush it off as another casualty. Oh well. And hope no one says much. Often families are too busy grieving and don’t want to think about technicalities. They do not want to think about bodies. They want to think about the living person, not their dead body. However, autopsies often reveal the real cause of death. Many times learning this is so painful that we would rather not know! So even the families avoid this and don’t want to know. Yes, it was those drugs…..Or yes, it was suicide (from the drugs or from patient abuse). Or yes, it was not what it appeared to be. The tables have now turned. And what can we do? How can we unify and take action and stop this? Often they refuse to allow an autopsy because they do not want to open a can of worms. Actually I wonder if we patients can put measures into place NOW, while we are still living, donating our bodies to science so that our organs can be examined for damages after our deaths. That way, there cannot be coverup if we die. The damages will be found, and exposed.

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  • I found that diagnosis on its own, even well before drugs, for me, completely took me out of what I was doing, out of the very successful student life I had, and put me into the mental patient ghetto immediately. It took only months. I had exposure to drugs, but was not given them. I saw people who had taken them and saw that there was such thing as “mental illness.” I had not heard of this before nor thought about it before. Suddenly, I was made into a patient. I never composed music again.

    They hadn’t given me a “mental illness” diagnosis right away. In fact, at first they verified that I had an eating disorder but clearly didn’t know jack shit about ED. So they fumbled around in the dark. I was the only one there who had ED and not some other dreaded disease, supposedly. When people complained of other problems I didn’t know how to react except to comfort them, and wonder why and how I fit in to all this. I wondered why therapy wasn’t helpful at all. I didn’t know what to do except go along with it and hope it might “work.” I hoped for a “better therapist” but could never find one. Ever.

    Then after a few years I figured my only hope was drugs. Then they said drugs don’t help ED. If I wanted drugs, I’d have to fake some other problem, so I did, just to get drugs that might help ED. That turned out to be a very bad idea. Guess I acted well. I even fooled myself.

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  • None of us are denying that psychosis exists. Many of us have experienced it. Most of us here do not call it a disease. Why should it be called that? We all agree that some experience it more than others, far more. Still, most here would not call those people diseased, though we do not deny that their experience happened. Some are suffering. Some are not.

    Sometimes a person hears voices as a result of an actual physical change happening, which COULD be a disease, such as encephalitis. But that person has the disease called encephalitis. Many adolescents hear voices from hormone changes, but adolescence isn’t a disease, either. If I stop eating I will get very confused and I can’t think straight. That is due to malnutrition, not mental illness. A person in alcohol withdrawal or affected by one or several of many types of drugs, including steroids, will probably become psychotic, and I have known many who were. Many who are called “SZ” after many years it is discovered to be another thing altogether. And yet no one here is denying that all of the above very well may present what appears to be psychosis, and may be perceived as SZ by a clinician.

    I am very sad that people suffer. I am sadder still that people are blamed and called “sick.” I am sad that people are treated with bigotry, denied a social life, denied housing, denied a college education, denied a normal family life, and treated like crap because they are perceived as “mentally ill.” I am sad that so many people believe they ARE mentally ill and fall prey to this deceit. Many are cornered by their own families to be the “designated patient.” In fact, some families find it intolerable to learn that their family member might not be sick and dependent and unemployable and disabled after all! Ooops! What now? The entire family structure will need to shift, undergoing radical change, and many families cannot adapt to this, so they’d rather keep the designated patient dependent and medicated, even if it means early death. Yes, even that.

    You can hear family members saying this if you talk to them. “I’d rather he take the pills, even if it means he dies younger.” We need to consider the control problems that these family members have, and address them, too.

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  • Well, the TD is a dead giveaway. Back in the day, we all had pimples and the shakes from lithium. That plus many of us walk around “supervised” like we’re kindergarten kids, and some, sadly, are even encouraged to carry those tell-tale stuffed animals around with them. Almost always it’s a dead giveaway of therapy abuse. Or a patient’s diagnosis changes every few years according to the shrink is. Is the elephant in the room big enough yet? Or do we need to fatten it up with Zyprexa, too, till it drops dead on the naked emperor’s doorstep?

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  • Yes I would agree that often feedback is important and sometimes absolutely essential or intrinsic to our art. For me, when performing it’s interaction. It’s not me doing something to a passive audience. I found it disconcerting when performing recently when I suddenly discovered that my vision is so bad that I couldn’t see the audience, even a few feet away. I saw blurs. I saw heads, shadows, but not faces. So I couldn’t tell, I had no clue if I was boring people or if they were smiling or shocked or not even paying attention. I had no ability to make eye contact with eyes I couldn’t see! I have never had to confront this confusing situation while performing before. I only found out afterward that my audience was hanging onto every word and right there with me. Afterward, a few asked me why I hadn’t made eye contact, and I had to explain, I couldn’t! I now know more than ever that art cannot be done in a vacuum. You cannot write to no one, nor perform without an audience, or perceived one. In fact, you are always interacting with that audience, it is give and take, and without that audience you cannot truly make art. For this reason, in my upcoming book I first thank my readers. Without them, where would I be? Who would I be?

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  • I agree. I can add that I can look back now on various misunderstandings between myself and others and have clarity on it in a way. For instance, I was raped by a man a long time ago who I believe didn’t really understand that you shouldn’t do that to a woman. Many men are thus poorly educated. While it reflected gross ignorance on his part, the Privileged Penis Complex, which probably 50% of men possess, I don’t really think he meant to harm women. He simply thought he had the god-given entitlement to do use force, even threats or violence, and that women “liked” it. I am amazed at the number of men who do not realize they do not possess this entitlement and seriously need re-education. It’s not that the women didn’t say no loud enough. He heard, and ignored what he heard. He knew she was resisting and ignored that, too. What is wrong with the way we are educating our children? I cannot blame these guys entirely for their deeds when I see it as ignorance or even naivete. Sometimes I imagine if I could speak to them and confront them and say, “Hey, do you realize that what you did was rape and you could go to prison for that?” Tell them the impact it has on women (not just me) and tell them to reconsider their approach and revise it. If they have too much trouble changing then they need to take a break from women and/or children or anyone whom they victimize. However, it’s not my job to do this and I think it would be exhausting. I can only say how I feel and hope it makes an impact.

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  • This post is so, so amazing. And so true. Why on earth were they so hellbent on dumbing us down? And so determined to silence us? Does anyone care to comment on the following link:

    http://www.davidsongifted.org/Search-Database/entry/A10462

    Because just about everyone I knew in the nuthouses fit this description. At least from the outside, looking in, we were all too smart for them. No, none of that was “chemical imbalance.” Funny, some people said the chemicals “evened them out.” Ah, what a crime that was.

    Let our light shine, because MLK was spot on, it is only through creative malajustment that we will see change and growth.

    Julie

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  • In the same way, I don’t actually feel bad about a lot of the stuff that happened to me. Especially stuff that happened years ago. The reason is that I laugh over the absurdity of it. So in finding absurdity, I cannot feel hurt any longer. These things are just history, just a story, and nothing else. No matter how much emotion I put or do not put into a story, or how much vivid detail, it’s only a story and it cannot harm me. I am not the same person that I was 20 years ago, so if I am telling a story about that person, I am speaking of someone else, almost as if I am telling a fiction narrative or biography, even though that character is me. I may be speaking of my own feelings, but I am speaking of that girl long ago. Yes, I often call myself a girl if speaking of my adult self in the past. So I see her as an outsider looking in. That’s how I see these things with hindsight now. And, I must add, a bit of wisdom that I didn’t have before. I don’t think therapy can give a person this wisdom since it must come from within, not given to you from another person or source. And it takes time, that is, life experience. I often laugh over those therapy sessions, how clueless those therapists were, and how much they missed the boat entirely.

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  • Fiaschra, in my various attempts at asking MH “professionals” for “help” I would confess to my various crazy things I would do with food or around food or various “tricks” I would do to not eat. This included eating out of garbage containers, or eating rat-infested food or eating things that by all means were not food. When I read about a famous guy a long time ago who apparently ate rats and cats alive, I was not surprised. They said he would eat anything and seemed to not be able to control his urges. Apparently finally they decided he had brain damage, but never figured it out. I was very scared of stomach rupture, since these things can happen and often after you die it’s mistaken for a heart attack. I was so afraid of dying like that and no one ever finding out what I really suffered from. I knew so many suffered in silence and our voices went unheard, that we showed up in emergency rooms and were told our complaints were trivial. I was even told it was “impossible” to eat what I had eaten, and one doctor told me he’d send his kid to an ER if he ate what I ate. Hey doc, where do you think I am? No one heard, no one cared, no one listened. Following their advice only made me worse, and being weight-monitored was like a strait-jacket for me. Getting away from therapy was the only way I could survive, and following my own instincts ended up the right thing for me. The biggest crime they do to young people is to tell them their bodies are lying to them. Geez. That turns them into permanent dependent patients.

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  • My boyfriend usually told people that alcoholism was different from drug addiction and he was very hesitant to comment when he felt that this was an area where he had no experience. He felt that the mentality was different. I know he felt helpless and frustrated when younger members asked him to help with certain drug addictions and he felt he should hand them to someone else. He said he would rather be honest than go out on a limb. He said the same about ED with me although he was far more helpful to me than he realized. He told me he didn’t want to make incorrect assumptions and I respected that.

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  • So what does AA say about nondrinkers? That was a difficulty I had. I had ED for sure, but no interest in booze whatsoever. I have tried it but just do not like it. I have no interest in a chemically-induced high, certainly not in drinking booze. And yet the stereotype ED is a person who is also alcoholic. But I’m not. And I’m not an obsessed perfectionist, either. So since I didn’t fit that stereotype I guess I got bypassed by the ED crawlers, too. And I never liked benzos, had no interest nor any interest in getting high off of painkillers. I found it easy to quit cigarettes. But damn, I was tempted to starve myself all over again for a very long time. It continued to lure me, like a drug I couldn’t say no to.

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  • Welton I so much love that quote. Also, I noticed after the Marathon bombing in 2013 there was so much public anger toward a person who was only 19. I don’t know why, but I myself saw him as victim. I couldn’t possibly be angry. Instead, I was angry over the public’s rage at this child. I knew he’d either been framed, coerced, brainwashed, or otherwise victimized, or even in an enslaved relationship to another person or group that caused him to commit this act. I was upset that people called him a “monster” as if he, a human child, had suddenly woken up and become a non-human. I have no clue why all that happened, or even if he did it, or if he was framed or what happened, all I know is that so much hatred was happening, and so much praise for the police, it was almost as if the whole thing was staged, some drama playing out before me. I lived in Watertown at the time and watched the whole thing happen. I commented on it in my writing and in a piece I narrated aloud and audiotaped and put online. Because I had strong feelings on the subject I was persecuted, called “dangerous” and accused of violence. There was no evidence for this. Writing is powerful, and in many ways timeless and can outlive the writer, but it was not an act of violence nor intended as such. All I wanted was peace,and an end to the angry mob behavior directed toward a child.

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  • Precisely! This is one of their formulas. It must be your bad mother. “We are the better parents.” Highlighted, of course, by “group” being run by one male and one female therapist. The Better Parents we’re all supposed to worship. Next thing you know they are running our lives. stealing us away from everything we knew. People say they don’t know us anymore, or miss who we used to be, since therapy stole us away. I’ve seen therapy break up marriages this way. Therapy making spouses into strangers. And they repeat how good it is for us, praising us using a rewards system, that carrot dangled in front of us, treatment forever.

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  • Yes, Steve. Recently I had to inform a man that I didn’t owe it to him to compensate for his lack of sexual contact for a number of years in his past. I didn’t cause that, so it’s not my “duty” to act as person to compensate for the loss, if that’s how he sees it. Funny, I do not see “lack of sexual activity in life” as loss on my part since it was a choice. So I told him I am not a receptacle. Frankly, we don’t need to educate women to say no. I don’t understand why rape victims are told they didn’t say no loudly or clearly enough. We need to teach men that no means no, and to understand the meaning of the word no, and that just because they have penises does not mean someone else who happens to be in proximity has any duty or obligation to them whatsoever. Unless he or she says YES, specifically that, and is fully awake, aware, and a responsible adult. You would think anyone who claims to be intelligent would be able to tell who is a child and who is a consenting and willing adult.

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  • My boyfriend was force-drugged with Clozaril and he’s dead now.

    One day, maybe around 1992 or so he said to me, “Jules, maybe I am not mentally ill because I know when I was diagnosed they didn’t take alcohol withdrawal into account. But I learned in AA that what I went through was alcohol withdrawal.”

    I know at that time, both of us were very scared to defy our doctors or deny that we had illnesses. It would have angered our families. So we stayed on the drugs. We were stuck being designated patients, but lucky to have each other for many years. I believe it wasn’t just smoking that killed him.

    I also see that my siblings expected me to stay a patient forever. Aw, shucks. Did I disappoint them that I didn’t stay stuck in that godawful role? Uh oh, here comes trouble……

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  • My friend, a guy, was overprescribed Risperdal and developed prostate trouble. This contributed to his losing his job.

    I missed periods due to Risperdal. I had bone loss and broke my leg. Then Seroquel caused rapid weight gain and, I assume, a dangerous and risky spike in estrogen. I’d say the only advantage of all that eventually was that my bones healed. I didn’t care for being twice the weight I should have been, nor the discrimination. Not only that, afterward my treatment team denied that I ever had prolactin problems and denied that I had had osteoporosis from it, but it really did happen. This is coverup!

    I don’t understand why doctors don’t own up to their errors. I never understood their reluctance to admit Seroquel caused weight gain. At 200 pounds I could no longer walk and was in a wheelchair for three months. And my therapist was telling me to Accept Myself! Hah! And get bigger and bigger? I couldn’t walk nor even stand up, and I was supposed to accept this as inevitable and never ever blame the drugs nor those that gave them to me….

    I’m so happy that I told them to go screw in the end. I’d tell that to anyone. Take charge of your health. Just stop believing what doesn’t even make sense to you.

    They are not gods. They are not gods. They are not gods. Please stop worshiping doctors. You don’t need their permission to live your life. Don’t let them run your life. Go be happy, be free, be yourself and live.

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  • Why, also, is there obvious evidence that taking massive amounts of sedating drugs will cause permanent inability to sleep? Any junior high school kid can figure that one out. It does not take rocket science nor fancy degrees. I was put on three antipsychotics (neuroleptics) at the highest possible doses, most likely because I “tolerated” them. The consequence is inability for my body to sleep. I’m not anxious nor restless at night. I simply do not sleep without chemical additives to remind my body to fall into a sleep state, due to damages caused by these drugs I was told were good for me. That was such a lie. I know I am not alone. You can find this all over the forums but you can’t find studies. I believe these studies are being hidden from the public. They don’t want the public to know. But it’s right in front of our eyes. Obvious. Why can’t the medical establishment own up to its own mistakes?

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  • Yeah I think there’s no blanket One Size Fits All when it comes to forgiving. A friend of mine had to deal with that when she faced past abuse. Instead of lumping her large family into one (shrinks call that throwing the baby out with the bath water, I admit I got sick of hearing that) she separated out each one as an individual and considered each family member as a person, not as a feeling. So each person was considered one at a time.

    I am also guilty of lumping together groups and associating them with certain feelings, which I shouldn’t do. Many people associate certain occupations with certain past associations. For instance, a bad experience with a dentist might turn into fear of the dentist, or all dentists, or dentistry, or the idea of dentistry, often for years. If your uncle or fiance turns out to be a dentist you then have to separate that person with your fear of dentistry, difficult as it is. We hope the next trip to the dentist, if you dare, reverses whatever bad feelings you had developed. (Puzzle has this idea that going to the vet means automatic fun and games for her, oddly.)

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  • Some of the poisons are slightly useful but at much, much lower doses than are ever given by shrinks. None of these should be forced. In many countries, medical power is much lower due to the nonexistence of the Power of the Prescription. For instance, in many South American countries and many countries in Europe, most pills can be purchased without any doctor’s blessing. Only a few are “scheduled.” I believe in the Netherlands many drugs deemed illegal in most parts of the world are legal. In many parts of the world the entire idea of SAFETY is not determined by the State, but by INDIVIDUAL informed choice, or by parents for their children. Shall I cross the street? Look both ways, the state is not your mother. Likewise, ensure that your kids are safe around busy streets. In USA, the state takes over, assuming parenthood, and I don’t think that’s right. I don’t think “doctor” should act like parent, and I don’t think the government should, either. Most parents are far more competent than doctors are willing to admit. When parents are not good parents, we need stronger neighborhoods and stronger friends, coworkers, extended family, church etc, on a smaller scale than is usually done, instead of institutionalization of the kids, which is a crime.

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  • One of the funniest moments, looking back, happened around 1982. Yes, in a group. We were sitting around in one of those larger meetings and a “client” posed the question, “What is the difference between staff and clients?”

    Ron answered this one. Now you have to realize when an authority speaks, people really listened up. So here was the Voice of God saying, “The only difference between staff and clients is that the staff have their act together and the clients don’t.”

    Oh my god, the clients acted like this was the Word from High and nothing could touch that. I am so amazed at how untrue that statement was. The staff themselves were so, so screwed up! They didn’t have their lives together at all. They were no more “secure” than the clients.

    The difference was plain as day. The staff were paid. The clients paid via taxpayers. Actually my parents got suckered into paying tons of money for that program, sadly. Another difference was that the staff had office keys. Clients didn’t. Staff tended to have access to anyone’s records and didn’t keep confidentiality too well. Clients tended to keep secrets a little better. In the end, there were casualties, of course. I didn’t see too many get better except for those that walked out completely and rejected the nonsense they had taught us.

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  • Agreeably, I don’t think it’s comfortable to walk around feeling a whole bunch of blame. However, pushing forgiveness and pushing “Why don’t you just forget about it” on another person too soon is almost like saying “what happened to you doesn’t matter and no one gives a sh*t.”

    That actually happened to me. Right after I’d been abused while inpatient on a medical floor while medically compromised (I was in kidney failure) I got out of the hospital and took legal action. A friend of mine and I met for coffee one evening and he told me one of the most hurtful things I had heard in a while. He told me over and over that no one cared about the things I was complaining about (hospital abuse) and that I should drop the subject immediately and forgive the hospital since what happened rarely happens, and that they were only doing their job. He berated me over and over for not forgiving and for not dropping the subject. I was shocked to hear this. Not only that, but he told me that if I was ever hospitalized again he would tell the hospital to do the same thing over again, that he would support their actions!

    At that point I had to stop meeting this friend for coffee and I never heard from him again. I don’t think it would have been exactly safe to associate with a person who wanted me locked up and abused.

    So essentially (I really hope he is reading this) what he did that evening was to re-traumatize me. The length of time it took me to “get over” the abuse trauma was made much longer, years longer in fact due to his and others’ refusal to acknowledge that what the hospital did was wrong. All I needed was that, and because so many of my friends refused to take my side I remained in a resentful state until I found NEW FRIENDS.

    If anyone is in this position of having been abused, and your friends are taking the abusers’ side, find new friends for godsakes. If the mental health professionals you are seeing are taking the side of the abusers, ditch them! This doesn’t mean anyone has to diagnose the abusers with an illness, but simply to say they acknowledge that what happened was wrong or harmful (which has nothing to do with illnesses).

    For instance, Stephen I acknowledge that your stepfather was undoubtedly cruel, and there are such cruel people in this world who are mean to kids. I believe you totally. I am sure it has been suggested to you that he was “mentally ill,” has it not? Yet you have stated you do not acknowledge psych diagnosis. Many will re-story their abuse as “I was abused by a sick person.” But why should that be necessary? Why should cruelty be coupled with “mental illness” of the abuser? Cruelty is cruelty and we do not need an “illness” to “prove” that a person was cruel, or make that person seem more cruel or justify our anger at that person, wouldn’t you agree?

    That saying, cruelty can exist in the context of corruption at the corporate level. It can exist in the context of greed in a medical situation, in the case of an institution covering up the harms so that a patient or patient’s family does not discover that the institution was at fault.

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  • Precisely. What I do is mine. I own it and am responsible for it. What the other person is theirs and they own it. And I can’t do anything to change that person. The more I try, the more frustrated I get. In fact, most frustration in society is due to people’s urge to control the actions of others, which shouldn’t be done. Just set a good example, feel decent about yourself and if other people don’t like it, it’s their discomfort with you, their emotions that they have to deal with. I have learned to separate myself from other people’s bad feelings about me. And their good feelings, too. If they do not like me, I’m not their bad feelings. They own their like and dislike of me, approval or disapproval, however they feel. They should act responsibly either way. Liking me doesn’t mean I will agree to jump into bed with the person, either. Imposing sex is at least rude or worse.

    I’ve noticed that real anger is short-lived. About as long as saying a swear word after you stub your toe. After that it might be sore for a bit and then you forget about it. Actually after I am truly pissed it morphs to sadness and stays like that for a while and then goes away.

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  • Selena check out John Rohrer’s story too. Ohio. Freejohnrohrer.org. There have been protests and multiple lawsuits. Maybe those who are in this situation can somehow get together a coalition, or their supporters can, and petition the federal government. Maybe all together if you presented all the cases as similar stories. Just a thought.

    Clearly, “reason of insanity caused by prescription drugs…” but can we get the laws changed to make allowances for this as these drugs are clearly in the mainstream now?

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  • Wow, Twilah, your experience is so typical. In those places they so often fail to listen and fail to hear what is really the matter. I had to fight and fight to get them to hear me. I went to them and plainly stated I had an eating disorder (“eating problems,” since I didn’t even know the words for it) and I wasn’t believed nor taken seriously. I was even told I had a “Jewish problem.” Oh, and a “bad mother.” My poor mom got blamed and blamed, as does every Jewish mother, simply for being a Jewish mother. For every one of us, they overlook what the problem is, often because they do not ask, nor do they want to know what the problem is, or they cannot solve it, so they invent other ones. Often times they want to contradict whatever the patient says just for the sake of saying “The patient is wrong and the doctor is always right.” The last thing they dare admit is that we happen to know ourselves very well. That is why I ditched mental health care entirely, because I found it was totally off base. That’s awful what happened to you and I hope it NEVER happens again.

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  • Everyone has their own way of getting better and will do so in their own time. I know one thing, that if forgiveness is to happen, it cannot be pushed nor forced upon a person. You cannot force a person to believe something they do not believe, nor force a person to pray, nor to believe in a god they do not believe in. In the Jewish faith it is considered almost like rape to force a person to bow down to a golden calf, or to force a person to eat food considered unclean. Likewise, I considered it offensive when the staff pushed me to go to meditation groups in hospitals and I didn’t want to say Om with the other patients. I felt that they were forcing a belief on me that wasn’t mine. Force is not okay as far as I am concerned.

    If one person thinks their way might be a good way, they can show me by example. For instance, if a person feels that vegetarianism is the way to go, show me delicious recipes and a beautiful spread, and I might sit down and join you. That’s a little different from criticizing me or demoralizing me because I am cutting up a chicken for Puzzle this afternoon.

    If you want me to forgive, don’t push me into it nor rush me. Don’t shove it down my throat nor force me to do it. Don’t advertise it like it’s the one and only way. Don’t criticize me like I’m a leper because deep inside, I’m not ready to forgive yet. Like the grieving process, forgiveness isn’t instant. Some take years, some can do it right away, and anyone can change over time.

    I’m a great fan of the apology. I don’t know why more don’t do it. I find that after I make certain mistakes that I feel truly ashamed of the best thing to do is apologize as soon as I can. I feel very sad when some people do not make themselves available for apology because they cut themselves off from me, by forbidding further contact, by ending relationships, or simply by moving away. Still, if I can, I apologize. I often wait years before I have the opportunity.

    If any of those that did terrible things to me apologized to me, I would surely accept it, but sadly, they tend not to do so responsibly. Instead, they say they are sorry I feel bad. That’s not taking responsibility. Most do not understand that I true apology is saying you are sorry for what you did. How I feel is my own responsibility. What’s funny is that those that apologize for my “feeling bad” are often wrong. I don’t feel bad, they do, and they’d probably feel better if they apologized more responsibly.

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  • Yeah, Boans, I remember I had to beg for drugs because they said eating disorders were a trivial complaint, and that you couldn’t die of it. I remember one shrink refused me an outpatient visit, over and over. I had read a book about some studies saying that maybe eating problems weren’t just as simple as “willpower.” However, since he considered me a waste of his time. First he simply canceled our appointment, then he said he refused to see me unless I took three hours of psych tests (I can’t recall who paid for that) and then, he canceled the next appointment, and then told my therapist that I wasn’t worth seeing. That therapist got laid off and the next one was an antisemite I couldn’t seem to get rid of. I finally resorted to showing up at the ER. They told me I had to see the antisemite again but I told them to go screw. Oh and he violated my confidentiality and called my parents, too, at around midnight.

    The funny thing is, if they didn’t want me writing about all that, they shouldn’t have done it.

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  • I can’t say the therapists were any smarter. They were just as clueless. From what I recall, most were either completely grasping at straws and refused to admit it, or they were control freaks. Often both. Very few were the type of therapist that stuck to their word, that is, did therapy that had a beginning, middle, and end. And really ended it with the patient cured. In my opinion therapy should not go on and on for lengthy periods nor get a person hooked or dependent, nor isolate that person within the therapy.

    In 1981 therapy took me out of my usual functioning environment, music school, where I was doing exceptionally well, and put me in a treatment ghetto, and to me, that was the worst possible abuse. They did that before giving me a single pill.

    My colleagues were shocked and so was my family. However, at my college there was a turnover of faculty and the students I knew were all gone after a few years. It didn’t take long before I was forgotten. Many alums were. After that the only time I heard from my college were those periodic calls to ask for donations.

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  • Boans, that’s a good point. Many street dealers have at least tried the products they are selling. They say that you should do that if you are going to be a convincing sales person. You will need to convince the customer that you regularly use the product, that you own one, or your spouse uses it, or you use it on your kids and trust it, or better yet, wouldn’t leave home without it. What psychiatrist would tell his or her patient he wouldn’t come in and treat patients without his daily dose of Zyprexa? If such a shrink has been on the stuff for years, he probably can no longer fit through his office doorway….(And they know this.)

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  • Yeah, Patrick, it’s because they don’t like saying they are clueless, or that they are not the right ones for the job. Bringing a person with eating struggles to a therapist or psychiatrist is like bringing a bicycle to a car dealership. They should send you across the street to the bike shop, but instead, they lie and repeatedly try to give you a carburetor, or an oil filter. Then, when they notice their cures aren’t working, they pump more gas into your bike and wonder why it won’t run.

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  • Bob, I couldn’t agree more. I know of those who have left psychiatry we do not always agree, but we need to live that other narrative and live it the best we can. Whatever that other way is, even though we can’t seem to quite agree on which way or how, we are all living proof that psychiatry was dead wrong, that psychiatry screwed up big time, and not only that, but many of us have found out that life without psychiatry can be much better than life with it. Not all of us have gotten to that point because for many, the damages are just so deep, or are taking a very long time to heal. For some, the damages never heal, or we do not yet see the end to suffering the consequences of the harm. However, it is my hope for anyone that life might improve, that life without diagnosis and without pills and also, living without the constant babysitting they call “help” might free up a person to discover the person they are meant to be, or discover a new self or new way, and share this with others with joy and delight. It is all we can hope for, or wish for.

    Julie

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  • I was given Thorazine and I, too, was not psychotic nor manic. The Thorazine caused me to appear “schiz” because it caused pacing and restless legs. I also shook all over and had a reddish complexion, basically the typical bad skin of a schiz patient. For all intents and purposes, I appeared just as “schiz” as anyone who might have been psychotic for any reason (often I saw people who were reacting to or coming off street drugs which I knew only in hindsight) since I had those side effects just like any other patient who was there. So they called me schiz. What the heck, I sure played the part by the time Thorazine got done with me. Plus it made it hard to think straight after a while. What a terrible thing to do to a music major in the prime of her life.

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  • I was looking for documentation on the effect of antipsychotics on dopamine firing. I was given multiple antipsychotic drugs over many years and I was never psychotic. The first was Thorazine. I kept telling them I had an eating disorder and when I said “the drug isn’t working” I meant “It isn’t helping my eating disorder” but since they didn’t recognize that I had ED, refusing to acknowledge that ED was anything that mattered, they had no clue what I was talking about nor how much I was suffering. They only raised the drugs, thinking I was complaining about something vague and psychosomatic. I ended up on three antipsychotic drugs that did not help my eating disorder. They were raised to the highest doses, including Seroquel 900 and other antipsychotics. None of these drugs helped me. I needed to be listened to, not drugged. The side effects were horrific, including bone density loss from Risperdal. When my weight shot up 110 pounds my bones mysteriously healed, I believe because my estrogen must have hit the roof from rapid weight gain from the Seroquel. Then they had the nerve to tell me I never had bone loss since somehow they ” misplaced” the old records. They couldn’t deny that I had broken my leg, though.

    I lost all that weight and then some. I kept wondering about what taking all those antipsychotics would do to me long-term. I have heard your dopamine can get badly screwed up because your brain is signaled to overproduce it. So maybe that is why I couldn’t sleep all the sudden. Five years of that insomnia, it was bad bad bad. Also, i get hiccups all the time, which is embarrassing and sometimes I choke from the hiccups. I heard that could be dopamine. I just don’t tell anyone about my former life anymore.

    34 years slavery to psych…..Lost years. No one should have their life stolen from them like that.

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  • There are so many problems with the traditional way. One is that immediately upon entering the System the patient is inducted in the Us and Them modality. This does not exist elsewhere, not even in academia, not to the extent that it is in the System where the “staff” have god-like status for no real reason. In academia the instructors are raised on pedestals due to their knowledge in a topic, or high degree of experience, and they’ve been hired by a university and (we hope) highly screened for their qualifications. A TA may be on a lesser pedestal. However, what is “staff”? Their status as morally better is not valid. This fallacy goes on and on. They are esteemed as morally wiser, but they aren’t. There is not one aspect of their prior education or training that qualifies them as better people than the patients. And yet over my three plus decades in the System, that’s precisely what I heard. “The staff know better.”

    If EVER I was helped by any place I ever was while I journeyed through the System, it was at a brief stay at a respite place that no longer exists. I described this program in the epilogue of my published memoir (the book is at the moment is off the market, btw). It took me many years to realize why this program worked for me.

    I have no clue what the staff/patient ratio was, and I don’t recall being called a patient there. I recall being called by my first name. All the staff were likewise called by their first names. There were no groups and no locked doors and we were free to come and go as we pleased, or wander into the “staff” office and sit anytime we wished, as this was not blockaded off as if it were forbidden territory.

    I enjoyed learning about each staff person’s life. They used their own cars and sometimes drove me to various places. We enjoyed meals together. One taught me how to cook a particular dish. Several told me about a certain life choices they made, and why they made these life choices. For instance, the choice to remain single and not marry, or the choice to work a lower-paying but more satisfying job despite societal pressures.

    In my past, the only other “staff” who seemed human to me were those “therapists” who were extremely unstable themselves, had many problems, and leaned on their patients, turning them into their own therapists. This constituted heinous abuse, and was far more harmful than helpful. They only confused the patients, bending and changing the rules from one day to the next.

    It was not at all that way at the respite. I liked that they saw me as a human being, and that they allowed me into their lives and were not afraid of me as if I would pounce on them any minute now. Because I’d been brainwashed nearly two decades of believing the absolute that staff were gods on high who could do no wrong, it certainly took me a long time to warm up to this new concept. Eventually, as we continued to respect each other, I began to see them as human.

    I have often thought of starting such a place myself. I have noticed that many dream of such idyllic summer camp-type places. These dreams rarely pan out. I don’t dream of it much anymore. I wanted to make a place for people with eating disorders but I couldn’t get one person to commit to partnering with me, or even halfway considering it a few years ago. Now, I seem to have many more allies and people who understand my position, so maybe in the future it will be possible. I guess these ideas take a very long time to germinate.

    The program I was in was then located in Waltham, MA late in 1997, but is no more. The building was purchased by Brandeis University and I believe the U used it as an art studio afterward/ It very well may have been Advocates that was running the program, or possibly Edinburg, but these are both completely restructured now. There was a changeover that occurred immediately after I left, and then it seems later on another changeover from Advocates to Edinburg that took over the entire crisis team as well, plus they changed which towns were covered.

    I honestly do not know if old crisis team records were destroyed, lost, or simply a huge pain for patients to access, should they need them for legal reasons. I needed the records because I was trying to report a rape to the police to protect other people I feared may be in harm’s way. Without the records, sadly, the cops claimed I had “fabricated the story” and they did not investigate.

    A person who posted here mentioned not being able to get their records. I believe this MIGHT be due to the changeover. The records I was trying to get were completely unrelated, from 2008. I was told they couldn’t get them. My guess is that had I put up a huge stink, somehow, those records would have shown up. I remember being way too exhausted at the time to try any harder.

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  • Forced sterilization is disgusting. I don’t care if the person being sterilized in a crook or poor or a Jew or quote unquote mentally ill or a so-called bad parent (according to whom?) or “unfit to care for kids” (again, according to whom?)…..On and on…If this is forced then it means the following:

    A person in authority is deciding that a person of lesser authority is unfit to have kids. What makes the person of greater authority so much better, so much smarter, so much more morally sound that he can state that this lesser being should be sterilized? What gave him that authority? What gives him the right to say, “You are incompetent”? Or, “You are unfit”? Is this person granted god-like status? And should anyone be granted this status to judge who is fit and who is not?

    My grandmother was told not to have any more children after her first. She was coerced into a hysterectomy, told it was for “medical reasons.” Decades later she discovered the surgery was unnecessary. I am fairly sure that antisemitism was behind this.

    What authority? By the way, my dad was a mathematical genius who pursued engineering, and his father (my grandfather) was also a scientist and musician. I highly doubt it was “bad genes.”

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  • Of course the anti-p drugs are effective. They are so effective at making it obvious when people are on them. I can spot one in a crowd. The big belly. The foot tapping, or, sadder still, wiggling tongue or shaky hands. I can tell if someone is on SSRI’s, too. Often they do not know what to do with their hands. They wring them, fidget constantly, or even pull their hair out. Weight gain is the most common with the neuroleptics. Often people cannot walk properly after long-term use. After only a few weeks on this drug, they are UNEMPLOYABLE. If they were in college before, they won’t be allowed back. If they had relationships before, they don’t now. Many do not go out unsupervised. They go out with their parents, or a sibling, or in groups, or in “vans” watched over by nurses or “staff.” They speak with slurred speech or not at all. Some can’t seem to stop their arms and legs from twitching and some shout out at random, “Help me, help me, help me…..” if only someone will listen.

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  • How can antipsychiatry be a psychiatric label? It’s pretty much an OPINION, right? A choice. Such as “I choose to live on the first floor of a building because I think it’s safer.” Or, “I’d rather live in the city.” Or, “I’d rather ride a bicycle.” Are cyclists a label? “I’d rather see an endocrinologist.” “I’d rather forgo a mammogram unless I find a lump.” “I’d rather not see a psychiatrist. EVER.”

    In fact, the thought of ever seeing one again makes my stomach turn. Over my dead body. Which I suppose the coroner would tag with a label. I’ll be okay with that one so long as I’m laughing on the way out.

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  • Dee, why does that sound substantially FUDGED to me? That many? That many in Sweden? Aw, really? I think that might be the total of pregnant women in Sweden. Or maybe the total of different types of snowflakes. Total with sz willing to comply with a study in a tiny country? Doubtful.

    Maybe those that didn’t succeed in killing themselves were behind locked doors and tied in restraints? So that’s success….. Otherwise I do not believe those figures…..OH,, I know they did the study on DEAD PEOPLE!!! That’s just “negative symptoms.” You know, they don’t talk much, doc….Stiff from the drugs…..

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  • Dear Bob Whitaker, Thanks so much for this very comprehensive report. We can use this as fuel any time we need to back an argument. All the data is right in a package right here.

    What I didn’t see I know there must have been studies on. What happens if AD drugs, either the newer generation ones or the older Thorazine-type ones are given to a person who is not psychotic nor manic? I ask because this was my situation and was (as I see) the situation of many others. These were either given knowingly off-label for “anxiety” or “insomnia” or, as they were given to me, simply picked out of the Physician’s Desk Reference because burnt orange was the color of the day (anyone my age or older knows that one). No, really, they didn’t know what to do with me, so they gave me T-zine, called my parents and told them “We have just the pill for her” and I kept wondering why it didn’t do anything for my eating disorder. So I said “it doesn’t work,” and they gave me more and more that didn’t work!

    Maybe 40 different failed med trials later…..At one point on three antipsychotics, all on the highest possible doses…..What happens to those of use who were not ever psychotic nor manic to begin with?

    Common sense tells me we get immune to the sedation.

    Can’t sleep anymore.

    However, I didn’t see that in the report. I didn’t see a thing about relentless insomnia. I am wondering if maybe this wasn’t monitored or maybe the study simply overlooked that when patients “relapsed” it was due to not sleeping.

    Not sleeping causes mania in many people. It causes psychosis in some people too, especially if you’re young or medically compromised or drunk or doing drugs or not eating as well. Poor sleep quality has the same effect. None of this takes rocket science. We’ve known this since high school biology drilled this one into our heads (or high school health class). If you do not sleep you will either go nuts or be very very sorry. In my case I was a very bad grump for five long years. I lost my temper with everyone (for which I apologize). Please know that all that was due to not sleeping. I honestly had no desire to be short-tempered like that. I only wanted rest.

    Now they’re using drugs like Abilify as “add-on” drugs with the antidepressants so we will see more and more people taking these anti-d drugs who aren’t psychotic. This is so scary. Although Abilify isn’t sedating for most…I fear the other drugs will seriously do people in in terms of insomnia, never mind the rest of the long list of consequences.

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  • Yes because the patient controls the tapping totally. And chooses to do it. It is self-therapy. I am a believer in researching on your own what works. I am a believer in trying out different things and seeing which things get positive results. I’m also a believer in sharing your findings with others who may have had similar experiences. And…”Go find the others.” The “me too” effect is amazing.

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  • May I point out that this precise thing happened to me in high school. I had this exact type of relationship with my so-called “best friend.” Her name was Kate. After that, honestly it was hard to say that name, I still shudder a little bit. Anyway, I found it wasn’t easy to speak of it to my peers, that is, college-age kids. At 21 or even 25 you aren’t mature enough to handle hearing something like, “I was someone’s slave.” You can’t. So I was forced to keep it all inside. I found that if I tried to tell a friend that person didn’t want to speak to me anymore, so I figured I had to keep it all a secret.

    Then when I started therapy at 23 I tried telling the therapists. Now, I’m 58, and looking back over 34 years of therapy, I’m really shocked that none of the therapists gave a hoot that I was another girl’s slave as a teen. I mean, they acted like it was nothing, or no big deal. Or they’d brush it aside. This wasn’t your everyday relationship. All those years I never told a soul. I swear I told more in my own published memoir (which didn’t sell, ironically) than I did in all those years of bogus mental health care! Why did they focus on my mother so much? I guess blaming the mother was the trendy thing to do, plus since we were Jewish, blaming the Jewish mother was doubly trendy.

    Thank goodness for my childhood friends, kids from my public school, classmates who will by all means back me up on this. Otherwise, someone might claim I’m “sick” and either lying or paranoid. For sure, none of those therapists gave a hoot. You can find high school kids in relationships like these who post on YouTube. Usually these are dating situations.

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  • Bradford, Puzzle is doing great, thanks for asking. She is getting her hair cut! This means better watch out. That’s right, future dangerousness! Because she increases tenfold in cuteness after a haircut. Spoiled rotten here we come….

    Oh how I wish there was some magic formula that would solve any problemo that comes our way. Probably Ask Your Dog might work better
    than anything psychiatry ever offered me in three decades though. Puzzle says she wants to be loved, fed, walked, and scratched behind the ears now and then. Decent formula, eh? Try that instead of lithium so you can keep your kidneys as a bonus.

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  • My observation is also that the chapters vary and that NAMI has changed over the decades that I have observed it. I recall way back sometime between 1981 and 1985, my parents spoke of a “support group” they had found. This sounded rather pioneering to me. I recall my mixed feelings about it overall. I knew in many ways these parents only wanted answers. They felt that the doctors were leaving them in the dark. On one hand, they wanted to help their kids. On the other, they didn’t want to totally side with the kids. Parents of this generation had grown up with us kids, the teachers and school committee, and as third arm there was this very strong town PTA, the Parent-Teachers Association. This served to empower parents and give them some say in how the schools worked. So in this sense, the PTA gave the parents a necessary voice. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have had a say in our education, in the hiring and firing of faculty nor in the curriculum taught in schools.

    I think that’s how my parents viewed NAMI. They didn’t want to incarcerate me against my will. They only wanted answers. They wanted to have a voice. After all, they were PAYING for the darned thing! They paid $10,000 for my first nine months of day treatment! You’d think they’d want some sort of say, right? If you pay for car repair wouldn’t you want to know what parts are being installed? Or have some say in what color the car gets repainted? So they were paying for a service yet confidentiality meant that unless the docs broke the law (they often did) my parents were completely in the dark yet paid and paid and paid.

    I think NAMI satisfied their deep urge to know, to at least think they knew what was happening inside those rooms, inside that therapy room where supposed magic stuff was happening to their daughter’s brain. I’m sure they wanted their daughter back! I’m sure they were wondering what happened to their kid composer, and why she had not composed a note of music nor touched a musical instrument. Well, that’s some freaking magic!

    I’m sure my dad was actually pissed inside. His years and years and years of work in NAMI might somehow have relieved that. I wish I could tell him.

    Hey Dad! Yoohoo! I’m out. Love, Your Favorite Daughter (he always called me that cuz he only had one)

    Love ya’ll, Julie and Puzzle

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  • Steve I had retaliation done to me by the oppressor. Yes we gotta be very very careful!!!! Retaliation is real and they will stop at nothing! Retaliation isn’t necessarily lawful either. Mine wasn’t, and when done by a shrink there’s no recourse for us patients or expatients. None. However, that won’t stop me, and hasn’t shut me up yet. The exact threat was to force-drug me to stop me from writing. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Yes I am laughing. And I did not stop writing as per this very second……And I will not. Again, I am making both my parents very proud right now.

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  • Yep for sure Alex. I think we need to just quit all labeling, period. No more laying claim to NORMAL and that you have the right to declare some normal and others not. No more finger-pointing and no more blaming. No more use of “toxic” or “negative” or “bad aura” or “mentally ill” and its ilk as applied to individuals. And in my opinion we cannot be hypocrites. This means across the board NO LABELING. If a person is abusive, that’s it. No labeling that person disordered. You can put a name to their behavior and perhaps decide you dislike it or know why it harmed you, but you cannot slam their character nor claim they have a disorder nor bash them as people, nor make the statement that they should be “locked up.” Why? Because it’s been done to us. How can we ourselves be so hypocritical as to call anyone else sick or intrinsically bad? We cannot, or we are shooting ourselves in our feet, and our movement will fail.

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  • Bradford, Your experience of having difficulty crying is one I hear often. For many it seems to take years before this capacity returns.

    I’ve been through my “I can’t cry” phases and also my “I cry too easily” phases. While under psych’s thumb, I noticed the changes occurred with each med change.

    Jeepers, after a while I felt like I was a med basket and not much else.

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  • Good point, Bradford. In over three decades of psychiatric “care” I notice the lack of informed consent is almost universal. I recall all psychiatrists who prescribed drugs to me were either outright lying or only telling me the part of the story I wanted to hear.

    I recall, on the other hand, seeing an ear, nose, and throat doc for very loud tinnitus who was upfront and honest with me. He was not afraid to say, “No one truly understands why people get tinnitus. The most plausible theory is…..” And he also said, “We can try medications, but to do so would be hit or miss. None of these pills has a good track record. I’m also concerned about side-effects and interactions. Furthermore, I’d hate to put you through all that. Tinnitus tends to go away on its own after a year. Try to bear with it.”

    How I wish psychiatrists were so honest! I felt like a million bucks after that appointment because for a change, I felt well-respected like any other patient. It was so much easier to accept having to wait a year, knowing the doc was one of the rare ones that was decent to me.

    Sure enough, after a year and four months the tinnitus ended.

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  • MLK for sure that’s been my experience, too. I mean to me, if you are female and over 50, you have probably been raped by now. If not, sexually harassed or in some way offended in that manner. And if it happened that long ago, for most of us, we’re over it by now.

    I have this idea that the surrounding community, whether it be a college dorm, family, or workplace, can ease the traumatic aftereffects for victims. 1) Believe her and tell her so. 2) Do not limit her freedom of speech to the therapist’s office 3) Be compassionate and offer friendship, do not distance 4) Sending a person to therapy without offering compassion is in effect pushing the victim away. Do not do this, as the effect will be to increase the person’s trauma. By sending her to therapy, you’re saying, “This is YOUR perception problem.” But it isn’t. 5) Don’t insist that the person “get over it” instantly nor insist that the person “live in the moment” since there’s no instant solution that will work for everyone. 6) Support the person legally at the police reporting level and in the courts. If you know the victim is right, and can offer supporting statements, do so.

    The incident with my boss and assistant boss was 1976 it’s old history now. I have so many experiences and all that was only one. No, I’m not damaged by it either. I got over it. Same with a car accident when I was seven. Nor am I “falling apart” if ever I mention such things. This is only a story now, nothing more.

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  • Psych diagnosis is a hate crime and should be handled as such in the schools, in the press, in all types of media, in our social dealings, and in the way we raise our children. Wasn’t the younger generation taught to stay clear of N word? Now, let’s raise a generation that never points fingers at anyone for the purpose of character-bashing such as “mentally ill” and its various slangs and subsets. The field of medicine has not been legally granted immunity to be racists, so their MD status does not grant them the status to demean a person’s character.

    If I want to criticize my own character, examine my innermost faults, that is between me and myself, or as some may view it, between the self and God. Since when is judgment of one’s moral status, which in fact should be kept as private and sacred, within the realm of doctors? And yet, psychiatry has assumed this privilege for a century, and society has done nothing to stop this.

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  • We are by all means headed for genocide, Oldhead. Historically, if those in power wish to eliminate a segment of the population, the first thing they need to do is to identify these targeted people, then tag them somehow, so that they can more easily and quickly be identified by police or other authoities. Back in 2013 or so I recall Massachusetts and most likely ohter states was bribing patients into carrying a “special” insurance card. The card had a Pharmacy Bin number on it. Anyone who has Medicare Part D has these numbers on their cards which identify why you are on disability or why you originally were put on it. It’s one thing if these cards are only for the pharmacy. But now, these were combined cards, used to admit patients to appointments as Medicare Part B was also included in the card. While the program, called OneCard, was said to be voluntary, patients who took certain scheduled drugs were not covered unless they enrolled. Thus, many were suckered into carrying Mental Patient Identification Cards, cleverly disguised as “help.”

    Imagine, a fictional man named Jake is driving to the store to pick up some milk and eggs and is stopped by a cop because a headlight is out. The cop asks to see Jake’s identification. While Jake fumbles for his license, the cop can clearly see that OneCard. “Yep, it’s one of those Mental Patients. We need to question this guy further as he could be DANGEROUS.”

    “Sir, do you mind stepping out of the car?”

    At 11:30pm, Jake’s wife is still waiting for Jake to return with the milk and eggs.

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  • I have a term I use, “Rape Culture,” which I don’t really know if I am using properly, but I use it anyway, as follows: If a person is raped that person is then blamed, not offered justice, but offered “treatment” in the form of “therapy.” Thus, not only is the rapist automatically free to rape again and all such harms excused as “normal” and “acceptable,” but the victim’s story is now safely kept under lock and key within the therapist’s office so society at large will be safe from hearing her/his story. These stories are thus silenced and as harms continue unchecked, the surrounding society refuses to love and accept. These stories are now sanitized and quarantined in the hospitals, offices, and institutions, ensuring against leakage, lest we all become contaminated with the truth.

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  • Alex, it’s so true that people who have never been through this simply cannot grasp the demeaning way that marginalized groups are treated. I have brought this up with many people and often I hear, “Oh, what discrimination? I’ve never seen that, ever.” Even my own brother, who has a PhD in physics stated that to me. I asked him if he’d ever heard of unequal pay for women. “Oh,” he said, “well we’d NEVER do that in my academic department.”

    I cannot believe anyone out there is immune to bigotry. Maybe some people live these nice cushy lives, have job security, are white and male, and are just plain sheltered. Or have blinders on, and are desperate to keep them on, never to let societal woes inside their own blind vacuum.

    Is that even possible? We kids grew up outside of Boston in the 1960’s and 1970’s. We lived in a wealthy suburb where we saw kids from the inner city bussed in so they could attend our school system. This was called the Metco program. In inner city Boston. not far away, there were race riots and worse over school busing. How could we not see this, not hear this, not know this? And all that was unfolding before any of us left the nest. Was the racial strife some exception?

    My brother pointed out that I’m pessimistic to mention such things as workplace unfairness, poverty, and joblessness. I don’t think so, since to remain silent will only allow the hatred, bigotry, and discrimination against minorities, including those called “mental patients,” of which I was one, to continue.

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  • Frank, I like Mental Patients’ Liberation since I do not object to the very realistic term mental patient. That’s what we were, or at least what I was. Some of us even were compliant at one time! Horrors! I drooled, too! I own that, I own that as one of my big mistakes, I own walking into their offices as a huge mistake on my part, too. I own 34 years of huge error as mine, and I deeply regret that. I own that I was wrong about it, that I was duped, and that I was, and am, a highly intelligent person who was STILL duped. Yep they sure were convincing and the techniques they use match the brainwashing techniques used on POW’s and by the Nazis and by religious cults, so we know these methods work well. PROVEN! I own that I fell for it, fell hard, and that it took me ages to figure it all out. I don’t consider myself a current mental patient. Ex-patient, perhaps, or former one. A person who has memories of having been one, one way or the other, and these I keep and cherish so I can retell these stories.

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  • I think we have to be careful when using the term “antipsychiatry” since it is limiting. Many are very much on our side but choose not to use that term. I used to call myself that but don’t anymore. I sometimes say, “I work in human rights” without identifying as ever being associated with the System. Or I might say “former mental patient” but only if I am in position where it is safe to reveal. Quite often I say pro-human rights. Actually, any time you say “rights” it raises suspicion among those that worship psychiatrists and their ilk.

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  • Agreed, Steve Gilbert. If therapy works for someone I can’t knock that person’s personal experience with that therapist nor say it isn’t genuine, nor can anyone else conclude anything about what happens between me and any person I hire in a private discussion in an office, unless they are present as witnesses. Unfortunately, this means we have no recourse in cases of therapy abuse. The therapist wins, claiming we’re crazy. It takes a huge effort for a patient to win such cases. I am scared to go back to one, frankly, because of what happened to me. After Sandy Hook my gut instinct told me the kid had been abused by his therapist. I wanted to cry and cry and cry for that kid, and all my friends called me “dangerous” because they claimed this abused kid was a “monster” and then they called me that, too. Meanwhile these therapists get off, and keep on abusing and there’s NO RECOURSE. That’s why, frankly, I won’t shut up till something’s done about it.

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  • Chris, All my life I never had trouble sleeping until psychiatry messed with me. Since mid-2011, I have barely slept. For four years pretty much nada. The past two months or so I usually get an hour or two of real sleep now. I’m so thrilled. But what it amounts to is that I am constantly exhausted and as a result I snap at people all the time, plus I can’t work a job when I am always extremely tired to the point where I am on the verge of falling over. Yesterday someone asked me why I yawned all the time and I ended up explaining I barely slept. I am amazed that so most people really do sleep, and they are so spoiled that they flip out if ever they only get six hours. After what I have to put up with day after day I figure yes, they are spoiled and I wonder what the heck anyone would take a pill for “occasional insomnia” for, or, worse, prescribe one. What foolishness! Just put up with being tired and grumpy for a day! You’ll live!

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  • Paula Joan Caplan has a witty explanation of all that in her DSM criticism, too, Steve.

    It all should have come clear to me in 1997 when I was a guinea pig for “Mock Board Exams.” They paid Real Mental Patients $10 to be fake patients for fake boards. We had fake interviews in a game of Guess My Diagnosis and I believe mostly the degree candidates at this top training site, McLean Hospital, failed miserably. Ah, future psychiatrists of America! Maybe they do the same at the Baloney School of Psychic Sciences, eh?

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  • Chris, My experience of these “angelic” crisis workers is much the same. The reason for this is that they come in from the outside, so there is no pre-judgement. Often, upon their arrival they are barely noticed by the usual, day-to-day personnel. So they aren’t “briefed” on just how “dangerous” the patient is. This means the crisis workers come in and see the patient for who he/she is, not through that phony, bias-loaded diagnostic lens. Clearly, in your story there was so much retaliation and you were in the right all along. Your hands were tied since no matter what you said, they had you captive and repeatedly claimed you were nuts. Yep, been there, done that exact same thing! When the same thing happened to me, the “angelic” crisis worker came and wow, bingo, things happened. You bet I said “Human Rights!” and so did the crisis workers, down to the details of the ungodly noise level and even letting me close my door so I could have a moment’s privacy till they released me to my home. I was so amazed! All that almost didn’t go through because originally the crisis worker forgot to leave the paperwork. I had to call their agency and tell them to fax it pronto. They did! Meanwhile, the hospital inpatient people claimed I was delusional that such crisis workers had even been there, claiming I was making it up. Ha ha…the fax arrived and shortly after, I was out, FREE! Yes, and outside person, seeing things realistically, can make a huge difference when all you are to these folks is a subhuman monster.

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  • Therapy started out that way, and should have stayed a mere hobby. Originally back in 1978 I did not approve of it. I thought it was selfish, self-indulgent, and a reflection of one’s spoiled nature. I swore I’d never do it. I was 20 when I saw what it did to my employer. I assumed it made him lazy. Was that true? I don’t know. I wish I never ever ever ever started that stupid hobby myself.

    Julie

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  • Agreed, Nomadic, Therapy is not an answer for abuse or wrongdoing. The answer is for those of us who have been harmed and anyone else willing to speak out to organize and stop the source of abuse. If we do not, that is, if we remain silent, it will only continue. Silence will only give those who practice bad or harmful medicine the go-ahead to keep doing it. It’s up to us, since we have seen it all first-hand.

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  • Chaya I have always admired you. You can call any of us, you know. Or at least you can call me. Or write. I have left comments on your website hoping you would respond. It’s too bad you had to resort to paying for friendship. Yes, I was tempted to do the same thing, having been in the same position for far too long.

    Social isolation is different from solitude, which is a blessing. I was so desperate, begging people, “Can’t we talk not text?” but no one would budge on that one, insisting on pushing me away. So I was going to hire a friend in an office. I am way, way too tired for the needle search, though. I am sure it won’t be worth the headache.

    Just be persistent. You will find friends. You don’t have to pay for one. We’re always here at MIA, after all, and we do not charge taxpayers and insurance in the name of your loneliness.

    Julie

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  • Next time be sure it’s between you and the pharmacist. Or do not respond. Your doc prescribed it, but whose to say the condition even exists? I’ve got colorful mood charts I made from 20 years ago when they thought I was bipolar. I fell for that, too. All those charts are of a normal person with normal mood swings. All those people at Walmart could make the same charts of their own moods and be called bipolar by the same docs. Read Paula Joan Caplan, MD, who writes that most of the time these docs don’t know one dx from the other. It’s just mean name-calling and scapegoating, exacerbated and prolonged by the drugs and labels themselves.

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  • Deena, all I can say is, WELL PUT and….Me too, I don’t want to be the butt of any further blame. Next time you hear it, just walk away. For me, that works better than trying to argue or defend myself against Chronic Societal Blame Disease. Do not believe the lies and name-calling. Look back at what fools they are to blame us. Such crazy ideas they have in their heads, don’t you think?

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  • I wish you the best, Victoria, it sounds like you have a very solid approach. I used to be very rigid. I thought there was only one way, and I had to stick with that for the rest of my life. Doctor knows best and listen to them (even though they were obviously wrong much of the time, and getting worse). After I ditched that baloney, I had to be open to changing my thinking regularly. I could no longer have some rigid dogma rule my life. So if one way of living was working for a while that was great but sometimes life changes and we need to take another look and maybe revise or modify. This goes for everything you do, from career to choice of whom to hang out with to which is the best bus route in the morning to what you wear to what you like to eat. Time moves forward, we grow, our world is a changing place.

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  • Nomadic, I am appalled at the number of people who advocate “therapy” as a solution to having been harmed by bad medicine including psychiatry. This makes no sense to me. The last thing I want is to limit my story to the inside of the therapist’s office. While many of my former colleagues would love to have me thus contained, it makes no sense to me. I made up my mind to be silent no longer and many do not like that. I’m thrilled though, it is all for the good, as the world needs its feathers ruffled for sure!

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  • Thanks, Alex. Yes, waking up to the truth is awesome. We can’t go back to being blindfolded. All kinds of very basic wrong things exist out there and those of us who have seen these things first hand now have a choice. Do we turn our backs and walk away, remaining silent, telling ourselves not to think of such things? History has shown that such silence will only allow the status quo to continue unchecked. Something such as unfair low wages of women, which has gone on in many countries including USA for centuries, can be changed if and only if someone dares to speak of it.

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  • Thanks for your feedback, yeah i survived, I am glad to hear from people in various stages of this thing they impose on our lives. As I figure, I walked into it by choice but as soon as I saw what it was I should have left. I didn’t. It’s funny, they might screen you for a whole list of “illnesses,” but even if you do not have any, you’ll end up with the worst of them, the one they don’t DARE list in the DSM: The Revolving Door Syndrome. I think that kills more patients than any of them. Yes, it’s a trap. I didn’t think so for a while but toward the end, I knew it.

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  • It’s all about AOT, and why it’s so terrible that Massachusetts doesn’t have it, and how forced care will protect innocent people who would be alive now (sic) um…..like tell that to all our friends who are now dead from the drugs. Or permanently harmed. Or facing early death or living with poor quality of life due to force or coercion. Boston Globe needs to be ashamed of itself but they are not listening. Clearly a cog in the big wheel.

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  • Hi, At first I was not able to see that .pdf file. Something about it not being posted yet. Can someone say where and how it was obtained? And how you know it’s real, and not a forgery? This kind of thing has been done before, too, mobilizing the opposition on false pretense, getting them to gather up their munitions and ready for battle, then of course it was all a trick, just one more way to overpower and outnumber.

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  • Hello Doppleganger and TNW, I am not a scientist, I am a writer and was a patient for 34 years. My writing is based on my memory of what I observed on the wards, in those offices, what I was told, conversations I heard and participated in, conflicting messages I received, and all other sorts of observations over many decades, research I did myself when I finally realized maybe I needed to find out more, including memories and observations of what I felt in my body. So that’s my basis for this article. I am not a journalist but a creative writer. The type of writing I do is not going to be full of footnotes, numbers, graphs, and someone else’s studies. So much can be learned if I write about the way a nurse years ago interrupted me or rolled her eyes, or corrected my way of speaking as if I were a toddler. These cannot be expressed in a “study,” especially not a drug study.

    I know the risk is too high, and I also know they’ve known this for a long time. This information has been shown in multiple studies and is well-known. You might as well quietly ask any doctor you know. Ask a medical student. Ask a kid in AP high school biology class if lithium salts might be a serious risk to kidneys. Or go to your library and look it up.

    You do have a right to take it, though, if you are that determined. It’s pretty easy to find someone these days who will write a script for the stuff. I once heard of someone who accidentally purchased it on the street. He lived. That one came from an AA person I knew.

    I also know that any person with a diagnosis is considered in a different class, not quite human, somehow we do not count if such harms befall us. I have been contacted privately by many people who have told me they are now suffering and wish they had known, too. Some contacted me on behalf of their relatives, who were unable, or deceased.

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  • That’s the thing, Warmac, in the writing of memoir we do not usually cite studies to back our own memories. It’s a given that human memory isn’t perfectly accurate. Nor are studies, there’s always a margin of error. This margin of error is much wider than anyone realizes in almost all cases, given how biased the studies really are, and given how many are not even made publicly available or deliberately hidden. I just don’t write that way. In fact, what I was writing about was the recounting of my own thoughts on the matter, not a study, but my own reading of that data and how I felt about being deceived by those in whom I had place so much trust.

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  • Thanks so mjuch for your comment! Yes, it is definitely true in my case and also for others, that your kidneys may appear fine until many years after you have stopped the drug. I cannot be sure since there was so much coverup. After all, the DI was denied. When I developed edema it was again denied. When I had muscle cramping and was certain something was terribly wrong, it was again denied. I even went to get second and third opinions, making call after call, and going to the ER many times, often to be told I was “wasting their time.” All the scary signs were there, including blood irregularities, and all were attributed to anything else they could think up all the way until I ended up in acute renal failure. Even then, I wasn’t informed of the ARF! Instead, I was called, “danger to self” and they threatened me with forced drugging. Why should I trust these medical professionals after what I have been through, especially since my own body and common sense are far more trustworthy and informative?

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  • Hey TNW and everyone else, in case anyone is wondering, the recent study that stated one-third was mentioned right here last year on MIA: http://www.madinamerica.com/2015/03/long-term-use-lithium-can-cause-kidney-failure/ This came out of the Journal of Psychopharmacology. We patients all know this is not some brand-new, surprise finding. Psychiatry knew this already. However, the patients who were given this pill were so often put on disability due to so-called “illness,” taken out of the workforce completely, no longer considered useful and productive members of society. We no longer mattered. We were now expendable. Who cared if we dropped dead from the stuff? Often by the time we died it could be attributed, pawned off that is, to any other factor, blinding the public to the truth.

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  • I cannot see the newsletter. I noticed SSA-2016-0011 is worded as to state that those with “mental illness” who are on SSDI will be now included in the criminal background check. Is this the one you are referring to? I noticed that they seem to have changed the wording because at first they were only including those who had had a “representative payee,” but now, it’s all those on disability who have had a diagnosis. This is very serious and I cannot seem to get anyone to notice. I think they are doing this deliberately over the weekend while people are on vacation, so no one will have the chance to mobilize and organize. This literally paralyzes anyone who has ever been on disability for supposed MI, because now we are excluded from even more jobs and housing. It’s GENOCIDE!

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  • Thanks for the suggestion, TNW. I could add a footnote there. Some MIA authors do that. Actually I have looked up many of these studies myself and I am amazed at the range of results. For instance, regarding thyroid shutdown, one study said 100%, the other said 30%. Same with diabetes insipidus. However, my *personal* experience was that my DI from Lithium Carbonate went completely undiagnosed, and instead I was told my thirst was psychologically based. Given that I was impeccable at reporting symptoms I can only assume that other patients went for many years undiagnosed as well. So how accurate are the DI studies? Furthermore, any deaths attributable to psychiatric medications will be shoved under the rug, rest assured. It’s up to those of us willing to speak out to do so while we can, to warn others that the world of medicine is money-driven and deceptive. These docs are not gods.

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  • There is not one single source. They’ve known this for a long time. I believe it was posted here on MIA and reference was made to the study. However, this couldn’t have possibly been brand new research as I can recall 20 years ago there were docs who refused to use Lithium stating that it was too dangerous due to kidney damage. These were discussions I heard myself. I wondered, at the time, if the docs were fanatics. However, they were not.They were most likely citing studies that had been suppressed, or had seen the evidence themselves in patient deaths. When such an elephant is in the room, how could we all look the other way?

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  • By all means, Victoria, I would get another opinion on all those issues. Remember Thalidomide? “It couldn’t possibly be….”

    When I first got pimples from Lithium I went to several doctors who were completely stumped and told me “it couldn’t possibly be the drugs.” But of course it was! They also told many patients that Abilify does not affect eating and weight, however, for many, it does. I do know a few who eventually discovered that Abilify was the culprit.

    All in all, I have found that after going through what I went through, decades of being a patient, I learned that I must take the initiative to do the work myself. Instead of limiting myself to what one doctor tells me, I do my own research, and consult many sources. Read each source skeptically, just the same as you would read any “product review” site. Consider who is funding the source, too. Remember the drug companies only want to sell more pills. The doc may also be hiding information from you, downplaying the downsides to the pills.

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  • Thanks! The more people continue to come out of the woodwork and speak out even after all these years the more we can end the deception and brainwashing. I look back on my life now and realize that it didn’t have to be that way. I wish I had told myself that at 23 when I first started therapy. It was all a huge, unnecessary, wasteful mistake that cost me decades of my life. What an amazing discovery it has been to realize that despite the pain and grieving, the beautiful gift to be able to own up to that mistake, write about it, face the truth and move on.

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  • Yeah, the Cat, I think many of us, now, with the gift of hindsight wonder how we used to be so blind. Breggin does explain it brilliantly. I think we knew in the backs of our minds somewhere that taking the drugs and staying on them was a bad decision.

    It’s not easy to realize you are wrong and tough to act on that knowledge, too. You go through a lengthy and difficult grieving process that many cannot bear to even begin.

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  • In 2011, an idiot surgeon determined that because I had broken my leg ages ago and was experiencing some transient pain, I would never run nor walk again. I was naive enough to tell my abusive therapist this bogus diagnosis. Her entire face lit up. She said, “Yay!” I knew this woman was cruel, but I had not realized she was THAT cruel. When I tried to confront her, she insisted that it was a good thing that I’d never exercise again and that I should, at age 53, “slow down.”

    I am not “hyper” nor ever among my litany of psych complaints had trouble with focusing on academic assignments as per ADHD. Was this a joke? What the heck did she mean by “slow down”? I concluded that this woman was far more controlling and abusive than I had ever before realized. She had insisted that I pay money for cabs so I wouldn’t “burn calories” by walking. Any time I mentioned walking to do simple errands she stuck her controlling paws into my life. I knew I needed to ditch this problematic person and rid myself of her once and for all. I realized, also, that her need to control and manipulate me was deep-seated, complex, and desperate, and that she would stop at nothing. I knew I had to be careful.

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  • Victoria they love to brainwash us and brainwash us. It’s a myth that stress is bad and that we need to do all kinds of cleansing rituals to “reduce” it and make it go away. Think on that one. What kind of sense does that make, really? Reduce stress? See, they brainwash patients into thinking stress is bad. But what if that, too, is not true?

    If there’s no adolescence, no stormy time of life to get through, then how do we grow? Growth might sting a bit but wouldn’t it be great if we could go back to honoring that angst and heartache of youth as sacred and stop turning it into a disease? Yes while “he loves me, he loves me not” as a growth phase sucks bad, if we do not go through that phase we are deprived of a learning experience.

    Changing one’s mind hurts because it involves grieving. The grief is inevitable. “I was wrong.” We have the right to change our minds and also we need to stand by our past decisions as we made them, and also to say “I now do not agree with my past decision” and not be condemned for that. After all, we might have new information now, or a change of heart. Saying you are wrong is hard, and turning around and saying to other people that you made a terrible mistake is not easy. You can expect rejection but be persistent. Others may not understand and in fact this process is a lengthy one. It is a testament to your sanity, not to your “mental illness” (which as you say does not exist) that you stand by what you believe in. It is a testament to your sanity to assert that you still have the right to make mistakes and to change your mind. You make mistakes, you are sad or angry or grieve because you are human. Not because you are diseased. We no longer have to give fake diseases any further credit for these things we are naturally entitled to.

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  • Robert, I remember that case when the shrink had an affair with her patient, that news even made it to me. I may have met her. I am not sure. I’m sure my own shrink I had at the time knew her well.

    I am also familiar with the “personality disorder” accusation. Don’t believe it. They tell that to people who pose an inconvenience. No worries, just completely ignore it and make like it was never given, so that way it’ll disappear from your record. I hope! A neutral “I never heard of that” approach might be best to get it completely erased. Just consider it given as retaliation or to silence you since you were pointing out the obvious. So they wanted to give you a really bad one that would be wicked harmful. Look back, wave nyah nyah and tell them it didn’t work! Call back that maybe they should outright kill you next time they want to silence you! Then run fast and come back to MIA and tell us how it all went.

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  • Precisely, Victoria. The denial of our expertise is a basic human rights violation. It is permeating the medical profession as a whole. “Ask your doctor” is baloney. Why not ask yourself? As soon as a person gets the slightest tummy ache they assume that the answer lies somewhere within the mysteries of medical science. And the doors to this scientific knowledge are closed to all except the privileged MDs, the gods. Thus we become their slaves. This should never happen. Freeing oneself from this nonsensical belief is not so easy. We’ve been brainwashed to ignore our bodies and defer to “medical opinion.” This is why there is more sickness in Western society, not less, as response to the mythology of doctor expertise.

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  • Yeah but fleishra (not sure I am spelling your screen name right) we have to remember that the propaganda spewed by organizations such as Mental Health America (oh geez) is sidetracking the issue by “reassuring” the public that “antidepressants are not addictive.” This is to state that they are not opiods. True, They aren’t. The fact is that many start them and then find they cannot get off them. Does that mean addiction? Are they splitting hairs and completely missing the point that the drugs destroy many body organs and cause permanent damages and can also cause violent behavior? If ever you have permanent organ damage (I do!) do not expect any doc to even admit it’s from the drugs. Don’t expect them to even own up to damages once you start showing signs of ill health. It’s “to be expected,” right? So if you die young, who will care? You were going to drop dead anyway. Unless we put up a stink. My biggest life fear now that I am over 50 is not dying but that the message I am saying will die when I do, and be forgotten.

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  • I agree, Frank. More protests, more visibility in any way we can. I’d say getting the word out in a way that people actually notice. This could mean film, art, drama, music. Or it could mean going into the open mics and doing a three-minute comedy act if you are funny and like performing (I do!). Plays that get produced get an audience. Write blogs (I do!). Get on You-Tube and speak out (I do!). Write fiction. Children’s literature will shape our future leaders. Think of the power in that. Think of the power in cartoons. All these things help. Or just talk to people at the bus stop for starters.

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  • Victoria, That may be true for you, but it’s not true for all of us and it’s not true across all cultures. It may be a cause for a few kids to get upset, but there are many causes of growing up problems because growing up is upsetting in general. It’s supposed to be upsetting because if it isn’t, you don’t get through it and you don’t really grow. Growing up should be honored as sacred, not turned into a disease. I can tell you my own parents did not demand perfection from me. They were not like that. I wasn’t obsessed over it, either.

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  • I sent in an article which I hope will get noticed into MIA regarding what it’s like to live post-lithium. It is not good quality of life. It is meant to help other people if they are thinking their docs and the drug companies are being honest and upfront. It is meant to address the “tradeoff” fallacy. If MIA doesn’t publish it I can send it elsewhere. It looks like the FDA misfiled my 27-page comment to them I sent to the the Boston Globe and I am not going to stop…Oh, I suppose till I die.

    It must have been three years ago, almost to the day, that my psychiatrist threatened me in her office, telling me my writing was a threat to Massachusetts General Hospital, making me a “liability problem” and therefore, I “needed drugs.”

    I told her to go screw.

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  • The mental health system (sic) is based on the assumption that we need “help” from some “professional” in an office, but that basic premise is false. If you go get such “help” you will only get an office, an appointment, a bill, a medical record, a diagnosis, a prescription, a prognosis, endless follow-ups, and probably scores of extremely bad fallout as a result.

    The System steals our expertise away from us. We all have the potential to have decent lives and we can do so much more than we realize. The System takes away our power to make our own decisions. We need to take it back.

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  • OOOOPS! They did none of that. They didn’t drive me to appointments even when I sprained my ankle and needed a ride to get it looked at. That’s when I could have used transportation and the paratransit didn’t kick in for three weeks. They flat out refused, and refused to drive me to therapy when my pills were giving me bad vertigo so I couldn’t use the bus.The only ride I ever got was one ride to the ER and a ride back from the ER once. The ride to the ER was a “sectioning” one to ensure I didn’t report the CBFS supervisor to the DMH, which I had threatened to do. He ended up fired, that I know of. As for “specialists,” my experience with such “experts” in the mental health field (ha ha) is that eating disorders specialists are a joke. They tend to be controlling and abusive, get overly involved with their clients, have terrible professional boundaries, and/or they completely do not know what they’re doing. Many are completely ineffective as well, they do not actually help but keep their clients coming back forever. Also, many charge insanely high fees. Some have no real experience with ED so they only have book-learning. Go read my blog and you’ll see what I went through. The last thing I want is a clinician….EVER AGAIN. Sharing experiences and exchanging tips and pointers and giving support to others who have been through it is the way to go!

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  • Knowledgeispower, I was subject to CBFS myself so I, too, am familiar. Yes, it is in sorry state. I had to jump through hoops to get them off my back. I lived in eastern MA and I found that just about everyone in my area who had an eating disorder (or, rather, struggled with food, eating, or weight concerns) fell miserably through the cracks. They just didn’t know what to do with us! I wish they had admitted it instead of LYING and claiming “You must have some other disorder we can treat.”

    I don’t for one minute believe these labels have validity. The System categorizes people, and humans shouldn’t be put into categories at all. The story of my mislabeling, and the awkwardness of my fitting into that label, I believe, is typical, and illustrates one example of why labeling should not be done.

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  • Is it even possible to pool together our dough and take out a huge ad in the Globe?Use up their space and refute, point by point?

    Or is the average Globe reader too brainwashed by the slick advertising and “ask your doctor” ads out there?

    “Watch out, you might have a disorder! But don’t worry, there’s a pill for it…. Call this 800 number, and we take ALL insurances. Your confidentiality guaranteed (but we’re lying, duh, this is advertising,,,,,It won’t matter, you’ll be drugged…..)..”

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  • Boans, if the doc prescribes benzos and then rapes the patient, it couldn’t possibly be date rape since “it was lifesaving medicine.” Like administering CPR! He was saving her life but accidentally slipped his dick where it didn’t belong. Our justice system needs an auto-excuse app for that to get these docs off faster, maybe a bulk discount rate. Or a very large broom to sweep them all under a huge enveloping rug. Or doesn’t that already happen? It’s called the Mental Health System, an oxymoron in itself.

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  • Sarah, What is equally if more harmful than the drugs is the psych diagnosis itself. Simply telling a person that they will have to have “treatment” for the rest of their lives, or that they have a “permanent disorder” even if “but wait, there’s hope!” is far more demeaning and demoralizing than professionals or any outsider realizes. Imagine hearing you cannot work, or you shouldn’t be part of ordinary society, or that you have something intrinsically “wrong” with you that makes you unworthy of inclusion with your peers.

    It took me over 50 years and much soul-searching because really, all those 3-1/2 decades all they did was grasp at straws. I’m 58 years old and with much hindsight I can say that for three decades these “expert” therapists saw me as “bipolar” but I had totally normal moods! They even perceived me as psychotic when I wasn’t. I wonder who was lacking insight!

    I started to ask myself who has the right to determine what is normal in our society, and why do these people or institutions have so much power over us? These powerful institutions combined with the media sway our thinking, they instill fear of abnormacy into us at every turn, and have us constantly on guard for the latest “disorder” that we must call an anonymous “help” line about or “ask our doctors” discretely. On pour the bucks into the pockets of the institutions simply because they’ve succeeded in duping us.

    I was never bipolar. I was only coerced into being HYPER-AWARE of moods. So I used my creative nature to produce the most colorful mood charts with crayons, markers, and fancy graph paper. I still have those works of genius that reflect the normal moods of a normal, completely fooled former composer of music.

    I never composed another note. To me, that’s tragic. I’m not dead, but the fact that the System killed my career at the young age of 23 or so is tragedy committed by the Mental Health System in the name of money.

    How about listening and caring for a start? I vote for these two things. Don’t even call it stigma since that already acknowledges a person is diseased and singles that person out. I vote against overuse of “healthy boundaries” and blacklisting of those you see as “crazy.” I vote against purging one’s friends list. Don’t use terms such as “negative energy” or “bad karma” since these are euphemisms for mental illness (face it). Other words include narcisist. Stop calling people that, it’s baloney, harmful labeling based on finger-pointing. If you don’t like another person leave it at that without psych labeling the person. Talk instead of text. Ask people how they’re doing. Across the board we need societal changes. Instead of targeting those deemed mentally ill, or “treating” a certain population by glorified treatees. We ALL need to change how we do things.

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  • Sera, I saw the article and immediately wrote to the Spotlight people. I offered them my story and told them I was available for interview. I told them I’d submitted commentary to the FDA regarding the shock machine and my experiences as McLean. I also wrote to journalist tycoon Gideon Gil because I went through public school and Hebrew School with him and his twin brother. I reminded him of that bit, and told him he can interview me, too. I am one of the overwhelming majority (with or without “meds”) that hasn’t killed anyone, nor done any violent crime nor anything of the sort. I think the Gil twins would be laughing their butts off (they both had a great way of laughing) if they ever heard the bullcrap said about me by psychiatry. “Potential dangerousness due to mental illness diagnosis.” Tell that to my entire Hebrew school class. I think they’d ban any mention of psychiatry at Shul for the next 4o years.

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  • Val, my parents joined NAMI back in the 1980’s and my dad was NAMI chair in Massachusetts for a term. Both are deceased now. My dad was instrumental in getting Metropolitan State Hospital (next door to McLean) closed down in 1992. I think my having been there and written a lengthy document about my experience there in 1986 influenced his decision in regard to the state hospitals. We all knew these places were worse than prisons. I know my dad would be rolling over in his grave right now if he knew about the Murphy Bill. Before he died he heard Judi Chamberlin speak and he urged me to meet people in the “alternative” groups. He told me he felt that human rights was very important. I remember looking at him through my drugged haze and resisting, thinking that I disliked history, disliked politics in general, and figured none of it had to do with my “brain disorder” anyway. Sadly, I know now years later that this nonexistent “brain disorder” was paid for in the millions or possibly billions by my family and taxpayers, and by my own three and a half decades of life sacrificed to the System.

    As creative writer I am doing my part by writing and speaking about my own experience, what I have learned, and a bit of hindsight that might warn others to stay away from the trap I ended up in.

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  • As a young girl I spent many hours tucked away with a book or at the family piano composing music, while my baby brothers made noise, screaming and throwing things. They did this because that’s what little kids did. I wonder what I would have thought if my parents had told me they were “giving the boys pills to make them quiet.” Undoubtedly I would have loved the quiet, but wouldn’t I have considered my parents to be completely out of their minds?

    I remember Mom and Dad thought of far more creative ways to get “the boys” to settle down. One way was to hand a kid a musical instrument, or a baseball bat, or a bicycle. My dad put together a swingset in our yard. How about leading a troop of Cub Scouts? We had that badminton net set up all summer long. We even played croquet and invited all the neighbor kids.

    The coolest thing about my childhood was that we went to the mountains all the time. We went skiing in winter and hiking in summer. I learned to start a fire with one match if I ever had to. We learned what SOS meant and about great search and rescue missions in history. I read fiction books about children lost in the woods, including Lord of the Flies. I wondered if I would ever live in the woods and write like Henry David Thoreau or Robert Frost. We learned how to follow a mountain trail by the markings on it, and how to respect the wilderness. My favorite saying is attributed to Smoky Bear and says something about leaving only footprints and taking only photographs.

    I heard an inkling that recently a blood relative of mine was given these pills. Now I can only sigh, know it was all out of my hands, and feel sad.

    I think maybe Big Pharma needs to start putting their warnings on these drugs where it’ll have an impact. If they’re going to pretty up the pills, why don’t they decorate them by painting colorful pictures of addiction, restraints and seclusion, forced care, locked doors, needles, poverty, prison, death, and whatever else these poisons lead to right on the shiny surface of the pills. Melts in your mouth, not in your hand.

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  • Naw, not quite, Nomadic, that’s not what I said. I did voluntarily go to therapy. However, I went to them because my former employer said therapy was cool. I thought it was a selfish thing to do. Why waste time talking about yourself for an hour! I only wanted to think about music. But he kept saying it was great and everyone should do it. I thought it was wrong. Two years later I went to therapy voluntarily, but not because I felt I had a mental illness. I did not know what “mental illness” was. I had “eating problems.” I didn’t know what an “eating disorder” was nor had heard the term before. The therapists much later on told me about “mental illness” and crammed those nonsense beliefs into me. So then, I told my parents what the therapists said. Bit by bit, they all forgot what I came for. Except me, of course. But who was I? They forgot!

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  • Nomadic, I’d love to join your forum, but not really. I love finding new discussion groups especially since no one will speak with me anymore. I still spend all day alone, devoid of any human companionship. I would like to have someone I can hang with now and then. Or at least not spend all my holidays and birthdays alone. For that reason, I’ll join a forum just out of desperation, but I can’t join one if I don’t agree with the basic premise.

    My own “middle class” parents didn’t send me to therapy. They were excellent parents, much better than most. They never believed I had a mental illness, either. I had to convince them. Therapy was my choice and I went voluntarily. Then, the therapists stole this opportunity to milk my parents’ money despite the fact that they really didn’t see much wrong with me. Oh, except the size of my parents’ estate. What was my determined diagnosis? At first, of course, they blamed my mom. Then they said I had a brain disease. They changed their minds often.

    It was necessary to change my psych diagnosis according to which side effects looked like which mental disease. This meant I changed my mask about once every five to ten years or so.

    No way do I see my ending up in therapy or the System as a whole as having any relation to my coming out of the “middle class.” The majority of people in my geographical area where I grew up are among the “middle class.” Very few are among the richest and the middle class currently outnumber those that are outright homeless (or however one wishes to define the poorest). How is “middle class” a disease? It’s simply a default. If you aren’t rolling in dough, and you have a job, you are somewhere in the middle. I don’t think all middle class people are sick or wrong or immoral, and I don’t think all middle class families raise their kids wrong. In fact, most parents out there are decent because they love their kids and have a conscience. They want to do the right thing, they want to raise good kids, and instill confidence in their kids. All this regardless of “class.”

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  • Dear bcharris, Many people starve and lose immense amounts of weight after obesity. For some, that’s how they ended up anorexic in the first place, due to weight-related bullying, either real overweight or perceived. In fact, many people who are overweight are right now, are silently starving in terms of how little they eat. Most providers do not even bother to ask, nor think of asking, nor are willing to believe them even if they say outright they are struggling to get themselves to eat. Conversely, many very thin people struggle with binge eating, which may in fact be huge amounts of food eaten rather rapidly. Anyone who suffers from this can tell you it is a lonely and physically painful existence since it’s ridiculous trying to get anyone to believe you, so you just give up. I found that providers usually stared at me, at any weight, gave me that stupid look, almost as if they were on drugs, and said, “That’s not possible. You’d be dead if you did that.” Then they’d tell me the litany of psych disorders they assumed I had. But didn’t.

    So around 2012 or so I dug up a photo of a 19 year of anonymous girl who had died of stomach rupture. She died alone in her bathroom. Apparently they had the brains to do an autopsy, not normally done, but that was the only reason they happened to find out the real reason she died. I asked myself how many times people died of this, since usually these deaths can so easily be wrongly attributed to “heart attack” without an autopsy. I went to several doc appointments and showed them the photo, saying, “Hey, I’ve been telling this to docs for decades, why do you not listen?” Each one of them shoved me and the entire article aside, not caring.

    Still, no one’s listening. Even now. I cannot believe the fake activists are now swallowing the test-tube genetic bullshit like Kool-Aid. Honestly, this is so scary, thousands following like lambs….No one is answering my emails…….You guys should see the uproar over this and so few have taken notice here on MIA. The test-tube pushers tried to shut me up, too, but I didn’t bite the bait.

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  • We have known for decades that peer support used to be alive and well. We’d do it all day on the “units” and staff never knew nor were included. This was what happened inside those smoking rooms. Remember the laughter, the friendship, the camaraderie? The administrations’ goal when they took out the smoking rooms was to disempower the patients and to boost up the “expertise” of those who had no experience with what we had been through. Not that this is logical! They simply took power, drugged more, used more force, more locked doors, and the whole system became more militant and all-emcompassing. Funny, while it seemed these so-called “illnesses” were affecting more, these “treatments” were curing fewer and fewer and putting more people out of work. I wonder why!

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  • PeerX, YES! Your last statement, that “therapy” is now used as a substitute for friendship. Therapy was not used that way decades ago. People had real friends! Real human closeness and real relationships. We did not hire people relieve loneliness. That was unheard of. If you had a problem, you talked to your family or your pals or maybe going to church or synagogue or praying to God. Or had pen pals like I did, and popped them in the mailbox, sending letters off to distant lands far away.

    I suppose your hairdresser might do if you happened to be going for a haircut, too, but these were community members who made people look nice and even did nails. No one paid a person in an office for friendship back then, certainly no one would do such acts of prostitution on a regular basis. Most religions forbade such activities. That would end up getting you locked up or drugged, maybe killed. If all else failed, some people went to bars and cried into their drinks. Then maybe a real prostitute would find them. I’ll bet that worked better.

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  • Dear PeerX, God bless you. Your job sounds like a difficult but fulfilling one even though the administrators do not appreciate your work. I have applied for such positions but when I do, I have stated upfront that I believe in Human Rights and will not use coercion nor deception with patients/clients. I also state that I do not believe in force and consider the use of force to be a Human Rights violation. So this immediately causes me to be turned down from most (not all) jobs in human services as it stands in most “treatment” (i.e. non-treatment) centers.

    The other day I was looking through jobs listings and saw one listing that stated “must be adequately strong as occasional need to restrain adolescents” or some such baloney. “Dear Sirs and Madams, I will not participate in tying a kid to a bed. Should I see this happening, as soon as possible I will sneak in and untie the kid and get to know him unlike the rest of you fools.”

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  • For whatever reason, this seems obvious to me. Of the sets of identical twins I recall from my past, either some I recall out of my childhood or later from my adulthood, some did, in fact, look exactly alike, while others were vastly different in many ways, though they assured me they were identical and raised side by side. I cannot comment on personalities as I was never well-acquainted with a person who was a twin. More often than not, I have heard the most touching stories of how twins grow apart, how their lives take vastly different twists and turns, perhaps one dies or grows sickly, or takes to the bottle, or dies in the gutter, and the other prospers. Can we ever say why? I don’t think psychiatry or any of its so-called “science” is equipped to delve into such a question that cannot be answered by a test tube, but is sacred, because such love is shared as one, begun in the womb between the closest of siblings.

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  • And furthermore, the statement that victimhood is an attitude problem, frankly, I find terribly insulting every time I read online in various places. It seems to be a statement about certain people’s character, however, this is illogical since people who are abused as children, for instance, didn’t do or think anything to cause it. Nor did people who are victims of random crimes. My dad’s wallet was stolen from his pocket in Italy in 1978. Was this, too, an “attitude problem”? “Victim mentality”? I highly doubt it. No, it was because he kept his wallet in his back pocket, and because he happened to be in a train station in Rome, and for no other reason. I doubt the thieves could read his mind, nor could any shrink (those gods on high), nor could I.

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  • I don’t agree, Alex. When I write about a “bad guy,” a villain, I get into the mind of that villain. So, I might ask, “How does the villain, say, a thief, choose whom to steal from?” Whom will he steal from? Clearly, he wants to steal from a person who has money, or a thing he can easily pocket and then, sell. In every plot each character wants something desperately. Also, if the thief steals, this must be done seamlessly, and he must be able to cover up his crime. Who will be the best victim? Mrs. Plum? Mr. Mustard? Whether he realizes it or not, he chooses his victim based on whether he can get away with stealing and not get caught. Nursing homes are easy places to not get caught. Whom will he choose? If I were the “bad guy,” which patient would be the best victim? The deaf person, the blind person, the one in the wheelchair, the one with cancer, or the one with Parkinson’s?

    As writer of this scenario, I vote for the one with Parkinson’s. I cast my vote not because of anything to do with “victim mentality.” Not one iota. But simply because the Parkinson’s patient cannot speak anymore. With no voice, the Parkinson’s patient will not have the ability to tattle on the “bad guy.” Even though the patient may be fully aware of whodunit, the patient will have no recourse. Naturally, our “bad guy” knows this. He knows he can get away with this crime, and most likely, more than once. The patient will never tell.

    Deprived of our right to Freedom of Speech, and our right to be seen as fully human and our credibility in the courts, we can easily fall victims to crimes. You bet perps know this. They know they can get away with harming a patient who does not have the Right to Free Speech. This is not an “attitude problem” on the part of the one who is harmed. The only one who perceives victimhood is the perp, not the victim. To see it the other way around is a complete myth. It’s a matter of rights under law, and once you understand that, you can take practical steps to undo it.

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  • When I went to nursing school in 1984, they told us if we were with a family a patient was dying or had died or was in terrible pain or was going through something very bad or very sad, it was okay to cry. The instructor said not to bawl, though. Later on, we students were talking about that.

    If I am reading a work of my own writing aloud in front of a large audience, I don’t mind getting tearful. It adds so much authenticity and feeling to the reading. I know many writers who have anticipated getting tearful on stage. They say so long as you remember the tissues, you will be fine! I wouldn’t want to bawl! I’d be embarrassed! But tears are different. We are human. Why people, whether professional or not think shedding them is a huge no-no is beyond me.

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  • I can’t seem to reply to some of these sub-posts as there’s no “reply” button. A few of these “magic moments” might have been:

    The evening when a “staff” took me aside and told me about his mother’s death. He would have been fired if his boss found out. But he knew I would understand the depth, meaning, and sadness in the story. I was worth it, as far as he was concerned.

    One morning, a long-time lower paid worker, a MH counselor saw that I’d been on the “unit” for weeks. She called me aside. No one was around at that moment. She said, “Hey, Julie. What do you take in your coffee?” I thought this was a trick question and she was going to say that if I took my coffee black it meant something about my eating disorder. Still, I said I took it black, no cream and no sugar. (I have forgone the cream and sugar since my very first diet in 1980.) She said to me, “Julie, please do not tell a soul. I’m going to get you a cup of staff coffee. Please don’t. If anyone finds out, I’ll lose my job. Stay right there.” She got me a styrofoam cup filled with black coffee. And she smiled at me and winked. I said nothing. Now that was years ago and I doubt my writing these words will cause her to lose her job. Allow me to add that at that moment, I felt human. I felt loved, and trusted.

    In both instances, real people with real lives and real feelings entrusted me, a mere patient, with secrets. Me, a person who could not be trusted, was trusted to do what we were assumed we couldn’t do, we were assumed incapable. They both knew better. The broke rules to let me know that I, too, was human, had human feelings, was trustworthy, and worth more than the locked doors and inhumane “care” that I was being given.

    I am saddened that these moments were extremely rare in Mental Health. When they did happen, they were fleeting. Mostly, the positive, productive and possibly healing moments happened between patients, when staff were not around, and that was frequent. In recent years, staff efforts to keep patients from developing friendships and from any meaningful dialogue has been stronger. Censorship of “triggering” vocabulary and monitoring of patient conversations surely is an effort to squelch patient-to-patient healing, and to elevate the false healing power of “staff.”

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  • Thanks! This is one article I have been waiting for! I guess for rather selfish reasons….Recently, someone said something to me that came across to me as one of the most hurtful things ever said to me in recent years, after I told her, with much exuberance, of my hopes of organizing an “alternative” eating disorders conference, that is, something that offered something else besides the status quo “recovery model.” She said, “But Julie, you aren’t and EXPERT.” (emphasis mine). I put the emphasis there because it stung so bad.

    Not an expert? After 34 years of enduring an ED entirely alone since the “care” was non-care, and then, walking out of said “care” since clearly, these “experts” had no clue what the heck I was going through, having no clue how to treat it, and then, taking the initiative to cure myself, by myself, through experimenting on myself by trial and error….A lot of error, too….This I must say I did not only to help myself, but because I wanted to share what I was learning with other people. For many years I was my own laboratory, almost always completely in secret, and sometimes, very much in desperation. Because I was desperate to live, and not to suffer anymore. I wanted to know how my body ticked. I didn’t want my doctor to dictate these things to me. I wanted to explore and learn myself, and in so doing, become me again. There was no reason why I couldn’t do this, and no reason why I needed a “doctor” to do this, nor permission of any “doctor.”

    I believe it worked. I believe I know myself extremely well, and I don’t think it could have been done any other way.

    I was also told that retelling my stories offended people, that I should stop, because unpleasant, traumatic memories of being incarcerated are bad and are best off forgotten. Our stories are unique and precious. If I didn’t tell it, who would? Think of our veterans who have fought in wars decades ago, in places we have never been. Think of our grandparents who tell stories of times that will be forgotten if they are not allowed to tell stories. Old people are all about storytelling. I kept at it. I told everyone to fuck off. Eventually, writing memoir and blogging has helped me gain perspective and hindsight, eyes behind my head that look back and can look at my entire life and see the whole thing for what it is. I can see myself as if I am a character in a book I am writing. As if I am another person.

    It’s called growing up. That’s the one thing mental health care, if you stay in it, won’t let you do. If you want to stay dependent and continue to lack insight, keep seeing those professionals forever and ever. When you realize you do not need them, you never needed them, you are free.

    When I learned to teach writing I learned to find that strong writing voice that’s already there, and allow that unique voice to grow and discover who it is and all it can be. To impose upon a student is less helpful, although I might suggest, I can only guide. The rest is up to you.

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  • Yes, I took high school chemistry, too. In fact, I was in an honors class, if I recall correctly. Back then, we used slide rules. My friend showed me her shiny electronic calculator, but I didn’t want one, explaining that I thought that for sure, that would be “cheating.” Either way, I also learned that many of those “elements” listed in the periodic table you won’t find in any kiddie junior scientist set. If my mom had ever seen me with some of those “elements” in her kitchen, she would have given me h*ll, whether they were deemed Kosher or not. In fact, had I been walking around with some, I would have made everyone sick with radiation poisoning. Oh, the happy “glow.”

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  • Hello again….I am back! I note that the Cynthia Bulik states publicly that the study is funded by the Boston-based Klarman Foundation. This is the same family that funded the “unit” at McLean for ED, (which I believe is over on the corner of the campus which once housed the outpatient clinic back in the late 1990’s if that rings a bell). I believe the Klarman Center treats women and girls under 26 but I’m not sure as policies change as does McLean according to what’s most profitable.

    Here’s the Klarman Foundation website: http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2491354#.VzcfMVovyGc.twitter

    Of note: I have been chatting with the organizer of World ED day from Tanzania who reiterates the legitimacy of this study. However, I have told her that due to the Pharma leanings, I am not convinced that it is not fudged or biased in some way, but this organizer seems totally convinced. It seems that folks desperately want to believe the genetic base. I think desperation and wishful thinking drives us to want the magic pill too much, though, maybe to the point of believing just about anything.

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  • I don’t believe this was NAMI-related, but academically-related. However, it’s possible that the project was in part pharma-funded. I am keeping mum on precisely what this project was. I know who did it and it is not a medical society nor mental health organization, but the particular project may have had Pharma roots. I’ll check, since there was mention of “next year we will do it again if we can get the money.” Where did this year’s big money come from? Clearly, the underlying message was there. And clearly, the selection of examples of what they wanted to put on display as “successful mentally ill” (these were chosen from the many who applied) appeared to be wealthy, not suffering side effects such as TD, and not one had an ending such as organ failure or broken family. Well, none were dead, either. Had they really portrayed “real people diagnosed with mental illness,” they would have had a relative of a dead person, which they could have done, since I heard one relative speak of her “mentally ill” husband, a psychosurgery victim. I was cringing over that one. Oh, BTW, I made my cringes very visible as I sat there in the audience. Couldn’t resist. ha ha.

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  • Steve, I love hearing comments such as what you just said. I hope that over the past two years, living completely without Mental Health in my life I have made my point loud and clear. I have a few ex-friends who are STILL desperately looking for signs of any “illness” in me. Apparently they cannot accept me the way I am! So any time I show strong emotion, anything but generic “happy,” or any mention of human rights, or point out that maybe their doctors aren’t the gods, my ex-pals claim I’m paranoid and desperately “ill.” I do notice these brainwashed folks I used to hang with dislike reading, knowledge, and science, which they claim is exclusively the realm of their beloved “experts.”

    Sadly, one of the most hurtful things ever said to me recently was said to me by one such ex-friend. She told me I wasn’t an “expert.” I was so shocked to hear this. Thirty-four years of enduring first-hand experience with an eating disorder, mostly entirely alone and having no one to speak to about it, no one to confide in…And I am still alive! How many people with ED are still alive at 58? They don’t do research on older people with ED, not my age, since we’ve all died out!!!! I’m supposed to be dead. The simple fact that I am alive demonstrates that I possess plenty of expertise, more than enough to take care of myself and keep myself healthy and thriving. I sure do not need “doctors” running my life. That, in fact, would be a step back into the Dark Ages.

    To anyone out there: You Are the Expert on Your Own Experience. No therapist or doctor knows you better than you know yourself. You own yourself and you are your best and wisest guide.

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  • BTW, I attended a public showing-off of “successful” “mentally ill” people who had “made it” in life. These people publicly advertised just how terrible their “illnesses” had been prior to “treatment” and just how “wonderful” their lives were with “treatment.” I was saddened that almost all of the stories followed this one simple “Mental illness sucks but you can be better just like me if you get treatment” formula. I am saddened that for many of these speakers, in a few years, reality will sink in, which may including which may include waking up to damaged organs or not waking up at all. I was older than all of the speakers. I know, simply because of my age, that the mental health kiddie play date is time-limited. Suddenly, the party’s over.

    I looked around me. In the audience I saw a mom and her son. Clearly, the son was the psychiatry victim and the mom had brought him to show him “good” examples that perhaps he would see as inspiration. I thought, “Oh no, he’s going to see more of the same ole.” Now we all know how I knew he was the “ill” one and she was the mom. Was he violent? No. Was he acting weird? No. He sat there bouncing one leg up and down, a clear sign that he took antipsychotics. Most likely, I was guessing, Clozaril, because I thought I also saw excessive salivation and he was certainly overweight. I wanted to walk straight up to him and say, “Hey kid, I been there, too. When did you get out? Wanna hear something new?” But I didn’t.

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  • When I was 21 I spent 40 days hitch-hiking and sleeping out in the open. This was in 1979. Ah, such magic! I was with my dog, my Belgian named Hoofy, under the stars and free to think and believe whatever I wanted. I felt much safer there than I did later on in mental hospitals surrounded by dangerous staff with the locked doors, threats, scare tactics, drugs, punishments, coercion, diagnoses, demeaning insults, unnecessary rules, double-speak, silencing, isolation from the outside, demands that we worship the authorities, and no end in sight.

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  • I was curious about the “tiny houses.” I lived in such a house not long ago. This was actually a slum. What it consisted of was a tiny plot of land where one single house should have been built. But what happened was that the builder, wanting more rental money, decided instead to build “casitas.” This was so, so detrimental to the tenants I cannot begin to tell you.

    On one tiny plot he built three one-story structures. These were concrete and uninsulated. My unit was no more than 200 square feet if that, more likely closer to 150 sq ft. I had no closet nor any cabinets. With no insulation, i heard all the noise everywhere. Next door was a family with three toddlers and soon enough, I learned that the mom was beating them. I heard this daily, but couldn’t do anything, for fear of retaliation. The homes were so close together that the family was stealing electricity and Internet from me as soon as I moved in via wiring and stealing wireless signal. On the other side, the couple ran their TV all day long at full volume. I heard the guy snore at night and heard all their parties and conversations. My roof leaked badly for two months. Come summer, the temps outdoors were a pleasant 70’s and 80’s, but indoors, temps rose to 100 by noon, and higher for the remainder of the day.

    At 100 degrees, higher than body temperature, the normal body sweats 1.5 liters per hour. I couldn’t get anyone to take me seriously. By the time I knew what was happening, dehydration had badly affected my short-term memory and it was like post-ECT all over again. I wasn’t even capable of packing my things. However, I had no choice. I took off, and Puzzle and I went homeless.

    My guess is that I was on the incoherent side for those three days, but I only appeared to be a foreigner who didn’t know Spanish very well. My wallet and my jacket got stolen by a kid who appeared to be “helping” me. At that point, I had no drinking water for me and Puzzle. I tried to appeal to a couple from USA who lived in that town, which was an hour’s drive from anywhere, but they slammed the door in my face. I think the man was about to get his rifle if I didn’t split fast. The police were kind enough to fill some Pepsi bottles for me. A few hours later, the Army found me, and drove me back to my uninhabitable home. They said I might as well have a roof over my head.

    A week later I found another place. Living in “cute house” almost killed me. I left a note in my best Spanish informing the landlord and real estate lady that they had been well aware that the home could not be rented, and that they had knowingly ripped me off.

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  • Stephen, you are right, I am in agreement that there are places that do help people. I feel that the peer model is on the right track. If you read the final chapter of my published memoir (This Hunger Is Secret) it describes the “respite” facility where I stayed that no longer exists. I named the town where it was. The program does indeed still exist but they have restructured and relocated, and had complete turnover of staff, so I cannot comment nor say if it really helps people anymore. All that happened late in 1997, and this was offered to me because somehow they couldn’t get me into State as they were trying…maybe they couldn’t push the paperwork through fast enough.

    Here’s a brief description: Totally open. Five beds. Diverse, mixed gender, No particular focus (i.e. no “diagnosis” that they were “treating,”), they basically took people who fell between the cracks, diverse ages. NO GROUPS. No delineation between “staff” and “patients” in particular except staff came and went in shifts. Patients were not excluded from coming into the staff office any time we wanted, except during the occasional administrative meeting. Staff drove us to appointments if we needed a ride, right in their personal vehicles, on request. They took us shopping if we needed it, or helped us find jobs or housing. They allowed visitors. They did not allow “illegal drugs” nor “weapons” there, of course none of that is legal anyway. Nor violent behavior. If we wanted to go for a walk, they asked us to inform them that we were headed out, so they wouldn’t worry. Honestly, I cannot recall if there was a curfew or not. The best part was that I got to see that the “staff” were real human beings. They shared with me their real lives. Some liked to joke around, some spoke of spouses or children or their lives outside of there, or the future or their hopes and dreams. In other settings, this would never happen. Some told me how they ended up working there, and why they liked it. And even why they liked me, and saw potential in me.

    I had always been told I was incapable. I had been told I was needy and dependent. But somehow, I knew this was all wrong. I noticed this respite place had computers. One of the patients was using it. I asked her about it. She said, “You should try it. It’s not hard.” I knew I could do it. My dad always wanted me to. He had earned his second master’s degree in computer science. I was released from the respite late in the fall. They continued to stay in contact. I decided to try computers, too. Late in 1997, I got my first Win95 computer, one that connected to the Internet. I remember around the turn of the year, I heard the words, “You’ve Got Mail” for the first time. Those three words changed my life. I became a writer.

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  • There is a little-know fairy tale, oddly, that was one of my childhood favorites that summarizes the story of many Jewish girls like me, Princesses who were captured by psychiatry.

    Three Princesses are asked to please their father, the King. The first two do fine by telling him they love him as much as they love riches and jewels. The third tells him she loves him as much as meat loves salt. The shallow-minded King throws her out. She lives for many years in dire poverty, dressed in rags. He cannot understand the beauty of the analogy she has created. She is a misunderstood girl, a fallen Princess.

    Later, she is hired as cook by the same King. Only she’s a poor girl, and he doesn’t even know she’s his daughter. She’s a clever girl, just as she always was. She serves the meat without salt. He is enraged.

    Then, he remembers the daughter, the Princess he threw out many years ago. He begins to weep. The girl in rags reveals herself to him. And….They Live Happily Ever After.

    When I was a child I had no clue I’d end up poor. The irony is just too screamingly funny. Living in public housing with a last name like mine, that was Anglicized and does not reveal that I am 100% Jewish (my true Princess background) was one of the most contradictory things I have ever done. As we speak, my suviving family denies the entire thing. When my mother died last year, it was if she there were two surviving sons, and the daughter, the first-born, had not existed.

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  • I should also say that since psychiatry takes so many adolescents, it seems they never examine the lifestyle of high school and college students. In these years, the curricula are demanding, the sheer amount of work that the students have to do is truly overwhelming. Add to that the extras such as sports and demands of work study jobs, or extra hours they are expecting kids to do at schools, plus long commutes and demands at home….Plus adolescents during this time period need MORE sleep, not less (they say nine or ten hours due to rapid growth). Hello, sleep deprivation.

    I think it’s extra important to stress to kids NOT to pull all-nighters, and to teach kids to pace their studies. They simply do not know if they weren’t told. I recall when I first started college, common sense told me to start each assignment as soon as it was given to me. I noticed, though, that most students didn’t do this. They waited until the last minute, then stayed up all night the night before the test, and then, did the test on no sleep at all. This freshman year was the year that many started drinking coffee for the first time, and some found that they couldn’t drink it or didn’t know how to handle it. We also tried booze for the first time as it was now “legal” for us. We were not supervised by parents nor any adult. A friend of mine tried speed. Many tried pot as well, and hash, too.

    Hey, shrinks, if you need more clients, go fishing in the college dorms. I think you’ll find plenty of fish there, and your business will never run dry. (Don’t bother to ask about life circumstances.) By the way, the first dormitory “epidemic” I recall was a mass allergy to Tide laundry detergent. Go Fish.

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  • Sera it is true that the Welfare system is done unevenly. In public housing, across the hall from me was a vacant apartment. Apparently, the family got the apartment for the man but he never made it out of the nursing home. They held it for him for years but it stayed vacant. I am positive that the Watertown Housing Authority was well aware of this, but since they were receiving rent from this family, turned a blind eye. I did see a box or two in there now and then, but never a resident…for years, all the while I knew a homeless person could have been living there.

    Next door to me was a lady whose family NEVER visited. One day, I had one of those friendly “cop” visits, a “wellness check.” One of the cops who came told me casually that it was his mom who lived next door. I told myself, after he left, “Wow, dude, why don’t you visit your mom more often, I think she wants to see her grandkids.” The poor woman spend day after day alone, and hearing only got worse. She began to play her TV louder and louder from sheer loneliness. I tried to tell her, but she couldn’t hear me. Finally I had to complain to the management about the noise level. The management couldn’t do anything, either, and the family, a town cop apparently, never came by. That is a sad story of poverty, loneliness, and neglect.

    At night, every night for months, a young woman came to our floor at maybe 3am shouting, “He’s going to prison, he’s going to prison!” or some such thing. I was never quite sure. She’d carry on, yelling and yelling, then leave. I think she was being beaten.

    The lady a few doors down, in her 80’s, suffered from exercise addiction. She paced herself to the ground each night. I worried that she would wear out her knees. I felt sorry for her. Every day, as soon as management left, her daughter came and yelled at her nonstop, in another language, I think Armenian. I know that when you do not know the language, you hear much more clearly the intent in the tone of voice. Yes, this was vicious and it was very definitely malicious verbal abuse. The frail older woman could do nothing to defend herself against her more powerful daughter. No one came to help her.

    One day, she fell. I heard the ambulance come. I heard them yell at her in English, threatening her and telling her if she did not respond to them IN ENGLISH they were leaving. They continued to berate her and threaten.

    With so many townspeople who speak the wonderful language of Armenian, why did the town not have first responders who spoke Armenian on the force? For shame.

    These were the same first responders that the other townspeople called heroes after the Marathon bombing in 2013. I don’t think all the townspeople felt that way. Unfortunately, those of us who spoke up were persecuted.

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  • People are just plain disenfranchised. Disillusioned. Discouraged. Unemployed. Schools aren’t serving kids. Ninety-nine percent get assembly-line medical care, they get pain pills instead of real attention to what’s wrong, leading to addiction. Communities aren’t caring anymore. The focus is less and less on listening to each other. More on shoving people into therapy and less on closeness and friendship. Too much Facebook, too many walls. Yeah, folks are disenfranchised. I don’t think that’s “illness.” It’s a normal response.

    Wake up, doc.

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  • Stephen Gilbert, you mentioned card-carrying for mental patients. This is already happening for Massachusetts. It’s called the OneCard. I tried to tell my so-called friends, but they claimed I was “delusional and paranoid.” I’m not. This is how it works. MA combined Medicaid and Medicare Parts B, C, and D. into one card. They told patients the card was optional, but they said that you HAD to have this “service” in order to get the drugs Klonopin, Xanax, etc and other controlled drugs such as Oxy and Percoset. So they all enrolled. One, two, three. Now right on the card are these pharmacy bin numbers. Each bin number you can easily look up. This didn’t take rocket science on my part to figure out. These aren’t state-specific, they are universal nationwide, so these number are uniformly used in pharmacies as codes. What do they mean? Well, they are indicators of WHY YOU GOT ON DISABILITY in the first place, way back when!!!!! So if you were a druggie, some 20 years ago, or an ex-heroin addict, or an ex-con, or schiz….All this is right there on the card. Yep suckers, they’re hooked on the benzos and they’re card-carrying mental patients, too! Now, all they’ve got to do is wait till they’re rounded up and put into the camps, then….the showers….. That should be easy to do, given all the pills they’re on.

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  • Incidentally, I just found this: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/genetic-risk-stress-dieting-triggers-eating-disorders-in-humans/articleshow/51863737.cms

    I have never before seen anorexia called “incurable.” They’ve been pushing the “full recovery is possible” slogan down our throats for ages now. Honestly, I don’t care anymore.

    Let’s put it this way: Suffering is a choice. The rest we may have fallen into, as no one chooses to have an ED. You do not have to suffer.

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  • Thanks! This is something we patients with lived experience who have felt the effect of these drugs inside our bodies already knew and have been TRYING to tell people. We shouldn’t need facts and figures to back up our lived experience. Unfortunately, we aren’t taken seriously, for the most part, nor even listened to. We are told we are sick, disgruntled, or “lacking insight.” But shouldn’t our word should stand on its own? Still, to be backed by data of actual FDA cover-up, which we’ve suspected all along, is priceless. I sit here knowing I have one more link to send to anyone who is asking me if we can trust the FDA and psychiatry as a whole.

    You guys know I google eating disorders frequently and am always reading articles and anything I can find. This means ads pop up now and then. The other day, I saw an ad saying, “Click here for an answer to binge eating.” Then, the ad flashed Vyvanse. Wow, so they’re giving THAT now? It seems that they give these drugs out at random, any drug for any problem, rather willy-nilly. Just put the red pills on the red squares and make it easy. What’s next? Tag mental patients to make us easier to round up (how about chipped insurance cards promising benzo coverage?), put us in a ghetto, and give us all Kool Aid.

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  • I agree but also there is too much stereotyping. Not all of us are perfectionists. I am not. Also, my family was not overbearing nor overprotective. We did not fit the stereotype and looking back, I realize just how much those “therapists” so badly insulted both my parents and insulted our Jewish heritage and upbringing. I got very tired, after many years, of hearing the “better parent” theories from those egotistical therapists who claimed they could do better. Often, the therapists were female and they claimed to be better mothers, though they didn’t use those words. I cannot tolerate arrogance in doctors who have never had ED. They have never starved nor felt it, how can they know? The male doctors were worse.

    I got so tired of the parent-blaming. It disgusted me, and I feel awful that my poor mom got the brunt of it. Had I not gone to shrinks, I would have gotten better in a couple of years, not three decades, because I would have listened to her. She was recovered anorexic herself, and I’m sure her practical sense would have guided me far better than those haughty a-holes did.

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  • Wow, I wonder what community this is in? I have seen so much poverty, places where they just can’t afford psychiatry. Sera, I don’t know how old you are, but before 1980, therapy and psychiatry was an “extra,” like nail coverings or hair clips. Something you did in your spare time if you were rich. Very rich. NOT healthcare, and not “required.” No way! Extracurricular. Enrichment or whatever. Then there was this shift. Now that should never have happened. It should have remained always a CHOICE. Shall I paint my nails? I choose. Not.

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  • I wish I had time to read all the commentary, but I don’t. Again…Why is starvation ignored? What if the person had not eaten for days? Nothing about eating disorders, apparently….Oh, that doesn’t count? No, ED has to call 911…That “doesn’t count.” Falls between the cracks…AGAIN.

    Dear Creators of First Aid, Did you forget about the skinny adolescents? No wonder the kids are dying. I’m not expecting the death toll to get any lower anytime soon at this rate. Or, do you think we are all taken care of at horse farms or busy with fashion mags? Oh, please…….

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  • By the way, I am going to be having an online Alternatives-style EATING DISORDERS conference because there seems to be a need. We need to stop the status quo One Size Fits All that’s out there now. This will be free, that is, no charge to attend. We will be having guest speakers and panelists and the sessions will be accessible after the conference. If you want to get involved, please let me know! The idea behind the conference is that WE are the experts on our own experience. Time to bust the myths.

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  • Dear Philip Hickey, I am VERY HAPPY that finally MIA is putting up articles on eating disorders. This has been sorely lacking around here. Almost as if it’s taboo to talk about ED. I want to ask, Phil, do you, or did you, ever experience an ED first hand? If not, why are you now claiming expertise? Or anyone here besides those brave commenters who have spoken out about their experiences with anorexia or other ED’s? Do you all’s know what it feels like to starve yourself nearly to death? It’s not pretty, nor glamorous, nor fun. You get treated like crap afterward, too. And by the way, Cynthia Bulik went through it herself. So personally, I respect that a lot.

    I respect that more than I respect degrees on the wall. However, the drug associations you point out concern me deeply, Phil. Have you confronted Cynthia directly on this? If not, perhaps I will myself!

    You are dead wrong regarding biological causes. This shouldn’t take rocket science, and doesn’t. I had ED myself for over three decades because I was dumb enough to see a therapist and psychiatrist for it, and these “treatments” had no answers for me.

    Why do some people get anorexia, and others do not? Because some of us get into a “high” when we starve, and others do not get as “high” so they end up caving in to hunger. Still others zone out and “forget” to eat, or get so weak they lose the strength or will to feed themselves. We starve because starvation is there. And because somehow, something gave us spark of an idea to go on a diet. It may be one remark made by a teacher, or a relative, or an event. Or gaining that Freshmen Ten. While we may choose to diet, we didn’t realize it would end up in Hell on Earth. That part was not chosen.

    Still others get ED because of food allergies or sensitivities. Sometimes, a climate change or change in food environment can be the triggering factor, such as moving into dormitories where the food choices are different and overwhelming. Often, we are caught in a culture clash involving food or weight when environment changes. Sometimes, sugar is a factor, such as low blood sugar, diabetes mellitus, or sugar addiction. Some of these are physical causes and can be hereditary.

    But anorexia itself, since (according to my personal definition) it’s two-fold, being 1) the ability to continue starving, and 2) a beginning of a diet or triggering event, cannot possibly be hereditary in itself. It isn’t an entity. It isn’t a thing. By all means, it’s not person or Devil that we have married that needs exorcism. We aren’t skinny monsters, like Carrie out of a Stephen King novel, a possessed girl bound to die since no one dares get near her. Girls seen as possessed are killed. Someone needs to tell Renfew et al their potions are poisoning us all.

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  • I recently decided that humans are judgmental, period. People make faulty conclusions based on first impressions. This is why we writers are told to write powerful first sentences, because our writers will be wowed by what hits them smack in their faces, before they get to what’s midway through. Never mind attractive book covers. Can we do political wheeling and dealing to change human nature? I don’t think we can change human thinking and get employers to EVER hire in an unprejudicial fashion. I cannot imagine employers will stop discriminating against overweight or older candidates no matter what the laws say. Kids who stutter will always face teasing at school. We can minimize discrimination, we can recognize that it exists, we can acknowledge it when it happens, we can be honest, we can apologize, we can state truthfully how we feel.

    I do not particularly like to be called stupid, abnormal, crazy, “not right,” or names like that. Told I am imagining something or making something up when I am not. Or have my humanity and credibility otherwise stolen from me.

    Last night I had the pleasure of meeting another person who told me that when he is on foot, he, too, has to cross busy streets and walk right up within a few feet of street signs in order to see them, since he cannot read them in focus otherwise.

    I said, “Me too.” Until that moment, we had both been called “crazy.” Ah, what a joy. Me too. No, you’re not crazy. God bless those words.

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  • Hi, I am replying to the question posed by Sana95. Namely, what if a person is suffering or showing signs of “mental illness” yet did not have a trauma in their lives?

    First of all, I was a person who fell into such a category in a way. I was not abused as a child. I did not grow up in a violent household and by all means my parents were engaged parents who raised me well. There were a many reasons I ended up in the Mental Health System and the following is only one of the reasons.

    I appeared spacey and although I was highly intelligent and had no learning disabilities, I couldn’t hold down a job! I could do some jobs but not others. I was timely and responsible, this was not the problem. I had no trouble reading, writing, memorizing, comprehending, or doing math. Guess what I absolutely cannot do to this day? I can’t tell my right from my left. I am now 58 years old and it wasn’t until I was over half a century old until the wonderful field of neurology finally figured out that many human beings cannot do this very easily. No, it doesn’t come to us instantly as our society had originally assumed. Actually, the fact that it takes me ages to figure out which is which means I am not well suited for many jobs, but can do many others just fine. But some 40 years ago, I had no clue and many of my shrinks told me I had a bad attitude, was belligerent, was depressed, or was mentally defective.

    When you see me today, it’s still actually a rather visible trait. I really do look a bit lost in certain situations. People assume too soon! What I have has finally has a name after all these years. It is called right-left confusion. I do not have a mood disorder nor dementia. I never bothered to get tested since I simply knew as soon as I found out there was a name for what I always knew was true. Twenty-five percent of college students do not know their right from their left, regardless of gender, I have read. I know better than to try to go into certain lines of work, but most academic situations do not demand an instant, real-time knowledge of right-left directions, except perhaps team sports, which of course I have known to avoid. Nowadays I know enough to laugh at how I must appear to others who see only a spaceshot and have no clue.

    I believe the cause was an accident of nature that happened because of the way my ears and brain process sound signals (I was musically inclined anyway, so that figures) and because I am right handed and my other family members (my mom and my kid brothers) were left handed.

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  • One of the main reasons I went to therapy in the first place was because my former employer thought it was cool. He told me Everyone should do it, because it was the Latest Thing, to Know Oneself. Let me tell you, my initial reaction was, Wow, how dumb. It’s too expensive, a waste of time to sit in an office and yap on and on about oneself like that. It seemed like an utter waste to me. Why not really do something good? He said you had to self-improve before you could do Any Good At All. I told him that was baloney, that it made no sense, and I felt he was wasting his time and actually he was being incredibly selfish and self-centered and childish. Although I didn’t stick my neck out that far, but it was my observation that he was being a Big Baby. I wasn’t that forward then. I wasn’t one to speak out, and he didn’t like that about me, either. He said I lacked assertiveness and “needed therapy to correct the fact that I was not direct with him.” This constituted bullying on his part. I really wanted to get away from this character-bashing. I was sick of it. I didn’t want to feel pressured to reveal my deepest darkest secrets to him, and felt I had a right to keep stuff to myself, and to share what I wanted to share when and if I chose to do so. A year later, I conceded to therapy, wondering if maybe he was right after all. Maybe I was indeed defective and needed “fixing.” The result of such “fixing,” as we all know, can be rather tragic.

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  • Lily.c or anyone out there who feels that after studying other people or studying outside oneself and feeling the need to search within…If you feel that need, if you need to look within…You do not need a therapist to do that. You do not need “group” for that, nor the “group hug,” nor “group feedback,” nor do you need “analysis” nor “the couch.” You will not find yourself in an office. You will only find an office. And worse.

    Save yourself the doctor’s bills and the slavery to the System. Kindly bypass the mental hospital’s doors. That’s what I should have done myself. Pass Go, collect that $200 and go across town to the stationary store and spend it on a pencil. Now, you can write your story (maybe rent a quiet room in Ventnor with a pad of lined paper if it’s cheap instead of spending a night in an ER), and you still have $140 or so to spare. Keep writing.

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  • Sera you have hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned. I will be linking to this article in my own blog (http;//juliemadblogger.wordpress.com) in a few minutes because I think what you are saying here is so, so crucial.

    I came to MH in 1981. I had “found” feminism only a few years earlier after doing extensive reading on my own. I wondered why the two clashed and I never resolved the conflict. I kept trying to fit my ill-fitting diagnosis into feminism, which was like….Oh, trying to get a fish to ride a bike I suppose.

    Allow me to back up for a second. Anyone (like me) who came to MH with an eating disorder (i.e. had trouble with eating) was ill-fitting automatically. They had no clue what to do with us, since they didn’t have a nice, neat category for us. Any ED who showed up got labeled something else for convenience so that they, or their families could get billed. The “treatments” didn’t work, of course, since we never had the “disorders” in the first place.

    “Are the voices better now?”

    “Huh? Um….no.” Wondering what the heck they are asking about…..

    At the same time, I was learning all this cool stuff about feminism. When I went to MH, I figured this was the New Way and it was Very Enlightened. Seriously, this was Learning about Me. Wasn’t Learning About Me good? Imagine that, sitting in groups all day long, talking about Ourselves. This was All About Me.

    So in that sense, this was all brand new, and seemed Very Feminist to me. I’d never done anything like this before, certainly not in 1981. It had never, ever been about the Self before. It was always intellectual, about literature, music, history, science, math, religion, God, or dead white guys. Always cerebral. If it was about Me, it was feminist, right? A Room of One’s Own.

    This was the shift that happened sometime in the 1970’s, away from Everyone Must Be the Same to Everyone Must Be Unique. The shift was radical and scary and getting caught in the middle was confusing and frightening for anyone in my generation.

    And no one even noticed. The fish have been riding bikes for years now.

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  • Why am I laughing? I am asking why it took rocket science to figure this out. Isn’t it plain as day? The #1 incorrect assumption was to assume we did not have expertise on our own experience. This proves the total incompetence
    of the so-called “experts.” I have lost my respect for anyone claiming to “know better.”

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  • I am appalled by the number of doctors who tell patients, “Benzos are very bad pills. I know you take many. Too many. I refuse to prescribe them to you and you must now go off them. Cold turkey. Of course you won’t get a seizure! Who told you that? I’m the doctor! I know best! You’re incompetent! This proves it!”

    I hear it’s a very deep, dark hole to end up in. A few years back, I sat next to a guy in an ER who was going through withdrawal. I was so scared he was going to have a stroke. I was in there with an L-shaped roomful of us in rather cramped quarters with no nurses around and neither of us could get the attention of the “guards,” who were behind some sort of mini glass window…if and when they felt like answering. Knocking didn’t always work.

    That TV on the wall was not particularly comforting.

    I remember he kept asking, “Can’t you just give me something?” He could barely get those words out. He couldn’t stop shaking.

    I told him I would sit there, and stay with him.

    A friend called and told me that everything that had happened I deserved, that I had “asked for it,” that I was “stupid not to take the doctor’s advice.” With that, she stopped being my friend.

    I looked around me and told myself, “Here are those of us who were unlucky enough to be patients.” I didn’t find out what happened to that man. I’m alive, though.

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  • Truth, I can also answer that question. Oddly, though, throughout it all, and for many years after, I had no clue that the 18-or-so months of “severe and rather mysterious illness” I went through following shock I did not realize was at all a result of the shock. Two plus two equals four, but seriously, I didn’t!

    I’d have to write an entire article on the subject. I know there were things I did, rather inadvertently. I know 1) I got away from the McLean Corporation, which had determined that my confusion was definitely a “personality disorder” and refused to accept responsibility. That is, I physically and metaphorically and in every way I could removed myself from oppression. 2) I found temporary respite. People who saw me as something other than “a diseased thing to be profited from.” 3) Restored my dignity. Specifically, I obtained a computer. My father, before he passed away, had told me about this new thing, Windows. He told me I should teach myself to use a mouse. This, he said, was the latest technology. My idea was to learn this cool thing called email, and have email pals. I figured that I could regain some sort of social life that way, regain confidence via correspondence, just like I had when I had pen-pals decades ago, all around the world. I did, even though other folks told me I was nuts to do such a thing. “You’ve got mail” became a joy to me, just as decades ago, my daily trip to the mailbox had been the best part of the day.

    Within a month, I realized that I loved to write. How had I forgotten I was so good at it? I had kept journals, which my shrinks had said were just girlish playthings. Now, I used my brain, which still seemed intact, to write my first novel. In eight months, I was finished.

    I had left McLean October 1997. In late December I had obtained my Win95 computer. In the first week of January, on my 40th birthday, the confusion left me. I awoke that morning, realized I was 40 years old and it was just plain gone. I believe a week or so later I began my novel.

    In March 1998 I tried my first adult ed writing class. I had been told by “expert” shrinks that I was completely incapable of sitting in a room full of people due to my “severe personality disorder.” Wow, I found that this was entirely untrue! I had no trouble in the class. I made friends quickly, and enjoyed the class so much that I signed up for the next one. And the next.

    In August, I applied for Emerson College’s Adult Degree Program. This is a college in Boston near Chinatown, known for the arts, theater, and film. I was accepted, and started in September. The program allowed me to take one or two classes at a time. I had left college with so many credits, but they were all specialized music classes, so I had to re-enter as a sophomore. I finished in 2003, with a 3.95 grade-point average.

    As for shock, I believe that well before graduation, those “experts” at McLean were plenty shocked. They’ve done everything they possibly could ever since to attempt to discredit me and “prove” that what I have done couldn’t possibly be real. They even tried to claim that I was delusional that I had a master’s degree, that I had used “special accommodations,” that I had gone to “degree mills,” that I was “borderline retarded,” anything they could do to completely demolish my accomplishments so that they could continue to uphold their bogus claims.

    One of the last things my father said to me, before he died, was that I should not give up. He passed while I was still very confused following shock. No one knew if I would ever get better from shock. But he said to hang on. He said he believed in me.

    No one can predict the future. No one has these god-like abilities to know what will happen, no psychiatrist nor leader nor law nor use of religion should proclaim a person so permanently “disordered” that they are incapable nor morally unsound. No educational degree could possibly give a human being the status of a god, nor the right to determine who is worthy of life and which lives ones among us should be snuffed out.

    Oddly, after all these years, childhood friends of mine who remember me well before I ever knew there was such thing as Mental Illness are coming out of the woodwork and finding me. They remember me as on the brainy side, and somewhat of a bookworm, just like my dad.

    I believe my dad was right all along. No way do I believe “guts and determination” was what saved me. No way! How is that even possible, since I didn’t even know I had been damaged by shock? No, it was all a matter of luck. And simply trial and error.

    Try, keep trying, and when you spill milk, laugh. Use spell-check. Keep a supply of erasers, a mop, and a bucket. Each time you pick yourself up, think of the muscles you are building.

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  • For the record, AFTER my ECT, I “complained” that there seemed to be something “wrong” with my brain. I had not been known to be a chronic complainer. I had simply been around the System too long. I had been fully compliant and never refused anything, fully cooperative, responsible, never late and never a “no-show.” They made good money off of me, since they “kept their numbers up” at the clinics. There I was, now “complaining” that something was “wrong” with my brain.

    Which they denied, and then said I must now, at age 39, have very suddenly have developed a “severe personality disorder,” that I had had, rather undetected, never before known about, since adolescence, and surely it was my Jewish upbringing that was at fault. It wasn’t possible that I had anything wrong with my brain. I was exaggerating, they said, “Faking it.” Each time I complained, they said, “You think about yourself too much, you are self-absorbed.” They even said I’d been faking my eating disorder for attention! Umm…maybe they were missing something, eh? A bit of selective memory themselves….

    My poor parents. My dad was dying of cancer at the time. He had just gotten interested in the work of Judi Chamberlin, and was so inspired by her that he had realized that Mental Health was all about Human Rights. His work with NAMI had become Human Rights centered. His last work for NAMI was as a Human Rights worker. I think his role was called Monitor. He visited facilities and demanded to speak directly to patients, knowing that only patients would give him accurate information about the state of human rights at these places. He knew that my word as witness (I had written up a 62-page document that later became a chapter of my published memoir) had been credible regarding Metropolitan State Hospital. He was instrumental in having that place closed down in 1992. I dedicated my first published book to my dad’s memory, and my second published book to the memory of my boyfriend. Both had spoken out strongly against the ECT.

    My mom died last August. I was saddened that I was able only a week or so ago to access her death announcement. To avoid family awkwardness, my brothers had tactfully omitted naming where I am located. As if I am dead! I noted on Facebook that I am omitted from any mention when family friends sent condolences “to the two brothers,” again, omitting the absent sister as if she were dead. I think at the end of the death announcement there’s some mention of donations sent to NAMI.

    For the record, I am alive. My life matters. Even if no one wants to hear it. I am not suffering, I am laughing my butt off, because I find this drama too funny, the stupidity, the ignorance, the bigotry just too comical.

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  • Count me in. I would love to walk right up to the shock doc who did it to me, and all those who participated in the coercion and subsequent cover-up and minimalizing and refusal to acknowledge the obvious damages, who are namely…

    The McLean Hospital Corporation, Shock doc Dr. Michael Henry and the ECT Clinic, and all those bigwigs at McLean who went along with it whom I have mentioned by name in my various documents (I fear them not as I am telling the truth, can they do the same for a change?)…

    …and tell them all they need to stop destroying lives. And apologize to those of us still living for doing the crap they did. As Ann Lamott put it, somewhat paraphrased, “Hey doc, If you don’t like what a patient writes about you, then you should have behaved, eh?”

    Dear Moderators, under the circumstances, I think naming names should be encouraged and should not be classified as “personal attacks.” Folks named Hitler, right?

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  • Frank, well before I had heard of “mental illness” as it was seen after 1980 or so, and well before I became a “patient” or, rather, prisoner of the System, I came to understand that imprisonment was not a very effective method of punishment nor at all a method to “rehabilitate” those who had truly committed crimes.

    As a young and rather idealistic person (as we all were) I enjoyed written correspondence via postal mail, in fact, more than most people. I had 20 pen-pals, many who were in prisons. Prisoners took the time to write, after all. These were men, all of them, and they used legal pads, as these were what they had.

    What amazes me to this day is that prison had, out of necessity, driven some young men to read and write. They were self-taught. They read anything they could get their hands on and corresponded out of desperation, out of need to communicate or out of need to find meaning in the world they’d been tossed into.

    Then, I entered the System. After a couple of years I became disillusioned. The “professionals” were not experts and didn’t even know what they were doing! After my suicide attempt in 1984, my best friend decided she wanted nothing to do with me. She did not ask why I did what I did. She called me up and said “I am not your friend anymore. Please do not call.” Decades later, I found her website and found she now advertises herself as “therapist.” Therapist who once decided that her rigid boundaries were far more important than asking a simple question, “Why?”

    My dear friend Roy, who was a prisoner, was the only one, during January and February of 1984, who was the one without these walls of fear. He didn’t see me as a monster. I am sure, that as a person who had once killed another person, he’d been called one himself plenty of times. I am so moved even now that he didn’t pull away. In fact, he drew closer. Back then, a long distance call was extremely expensive. He called me EVERY OTHER DAY! The cold-hearted nurses didn’t know who this man was with the “Southern accent.” I didn’t say.

    The nurses went back to painting their nails. I know that Roy continued to call, continued to remind me that life was indeed worth living, continued to tell me to hang on, even though those in my immediate surroundings did not provide any meaning for me nor saw value in me as a person. By all means, he did, he said.

    Often, I see around me those that do not value what I do. A good friend of mine told me she doesn’t care about writing. She told she hates to read. dislikes writing in general. Others who claim to be friends see no value in any of the causes I care about, or that the arts are useless and impractical. I was recently told by another friend that no one cares about eating disorders. My own siblings do not value my life work, in fact, they don’t know what it is or what it has been. This continued non-support, which has nothing to do with money and nothing to do with “having a shoulder to cry on,” neither of which are what I want nor need, makes my life difficult indeed.

    I have concluded that the only solution for myself is to seek out self-directed volunteer work with marginalized populations. It seems that those who have been shoved aside or who have totally fallen through the cracks or who have been DE-VOICED completely would welcome a person happy to work with them who has truly been there, ready and willing to give everything she can.

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  • I’m glad to have all this spelled out in a single article. Of course, those of us who have been around for a while and were actually imprisoned ourselves have already known these things instinctively. Hadn’t we seen our friends take their own lives, right after leaving such places? Hadn’t we felt like crap right after our release? What had we told ourselves when we got home, if we had homes left to go to by the time “they” got through with us?

    “They” were soul-murderers. Thus the worst abuse has been described historically.

    More likely we say nothing. Perhaps only silence. I wished myself dead so many times, whether I was suicidal or not. “They” strip everything human from us and leave us bare and raw. To make things worse, toward the end, I was called “ungrateful” after I finally got up the guts to take legal action against a hospital.

    Rather recently, an alive and very courageous person contacted me out of the blue and asked about someone I had blogged about. I wrote back and said I am positive that the source is a reliable one as this person was a courtroom witness. There were two suicides immediately following their hospitalizations at a facility where I, too, had been housed. I was well aware of the ineffectiveness of their program and staff’s amazing inability to LISTEN. There were in fact more wrongful deaths I know about. I myself was not inpatient there at the time, of these two deaths and didn’t know either woman, nor know their names to this day. But I knew enough to write the story, based on what I did know.

    The first happened, then the second family sued and won. By all means, the hospital is 100% to blame. There wasn’t any question then, or now, lawsuit or not.

    I truly believe that when there’s a suicide, YES, this is indeed a suspicious death and should always be treated as such. There’s always a perp. Always a bully or abuser. These deaths often take decades to uncover, decades before the truth is uncovered and finally revealed. So often, it’s the mental health practitioner, the doctor. the pusher, or the institution or workplace or “special school,” or spouse who got her locked up. Or the professional who refused to listen, and instead, slammed the door shut.

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  • Dear Dr. Parham,

    I am glad you have written about this. I have been a follower of the blog “disrupted physician” for a while. I assume you know this blog well. I also follow Pamela Wible’s blog. I, too, am from Massachusetts, grew up there and was a Red Sox fan.

    When I was young, my family and I often drove by McLean, the Met, and Fernald, on our way to Waverley Square. Upon seeing three hospitals, I nagged my Mom to have another baby, but not another boy, but a sister, just for me. After all, there was not one, but three convenient locations to choose from where she could have the baby born. Why not, Mom? I remember tapping my mom’s belly and wondering when that crying sister was going to show up who would be so loud, her soprano would drown out my brothers’ incessant cries for “More more more….” but Mom said those hospitals were not that type and couldn’t answer further.

    I also lived in Western MA, as a student at UMass/Amherst. Years later I was a “guest” at Gould Farm following a suicide attempt. That was 1984. Yes, there sure are such “rehab” places tucked away in Western MA that the public doesn’t know about. Such tranquil, idyllic settings intended to heal our troubled souls….for a price no one knows about…..

    And yes, much scandal. Riches and gold in such places. How odd it is that they are often built on hills just like McLean. Damsels can be trapped for years or decades. Counting the secrets buried there, we find thousands, and skeletons left for us to now discover.

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  • Dear Dr. B,

    I very much appreciated this article. I took a few benzos, not many, and these did not figure significantly in my 34 years or so as slave to the System. However, I did see much addiction, much denial, and was shocked at how rapidly these pills ruined other patients’ lives. There was no “addictive personality.” You took it, and if you kept at it, your body got hooked. Many patients were totally convinced that “my anxiety is so bad that I need this dose.” Or, “My trauma was terrible and that justifies these pills.” And, “I need these pills and no one understands!” I heard about “the good doc” and “the bad doc” and I noticed that benzo addicts defined a good doc as one that prescribed and defined bad docs as ones that refused or ones that called them addicts, whether with good bedside manner or not-so-good bedside manner.

    Yes, it was true, both docs and patients could be in denial. Docs should know better than to take a patient off cold turkey. But on the other hand, docs couldn’t keep prescribing like candy. When you know someone’s addicted, what can you do? I faced this as fellow patient, and I still face this today, as friend to people who still take these drugs. I don’t always know what to say nor where to draw the line, but I can only say I must deal with each situation individually, that there are no blanket rules for how to handle addiction when I pinpoint it.

    The only time using these drugs is truly justified (I only saw this once) is as muscle relaxant for rare muscle disorders when there is no other option.

    I saw a male patient at Massachusetts General Hospital’s ER in awful shape, sitting right next to me, geez, I thought one guy would have a seizure right in front of me, he was shaking and sweating, telling me his insurance would not pay, he had been laid off, and there were no medical staff in sight, only “security” personnel. I wanted to just sit with him but what would i do if he had a seizure or if I suspected his blood pressure was hitting the roof and he was at risk of stroke? I was a “mental patient,” rail thin anorexic. Who would believe a person like me, even though I was telling the truth? The man could barely speak, he was almost sobbing. Each time I knocked I was ignored. Much of the time, the little booth was empty anyway. Yet I knew benzo withdrawal could be fatal. I heard him beg, “Please, please give me something!” That was around New Year’s, around the holiday, 2010 to 2011. What a lovely way to begin a lovely year. (I had been sent there by my therapist because I told her I had a cracked molar, by the way.)

    I got friends who think their benzos are great, I got friends who have gone on to painkillers and onto heroin when the painkillers just aren’t enough. I got friends who rejoice when they get a new “diagnosis,” especially one that verifies that they got pain. It means more pills. All because initially, they were given benzos and they got hooked.

    Back in 1982, I had never heard of these pills. My friend was hooked on Ativan. She and the other patients, also hooked, described their “anxiety,” just as you described above, the pounding heart and feeling like you will die, in groups, and stating over and over that the pills saved their lives. Months later I saw addiction and much fighting with staff over the pills. The pills, not the original anxiety, which was most likely resolved, became the new problem, the new anxiety. On and on.

    As a person who had come to that program with an eating disorder (the year was 1981), I felt left out. I felt unserved. I could not relate. I can tell anyone here I didn’t experience what the other group members were experiencing and I was torn between “I don’t belong here and I should leave,” and “These are nice people and I wish I fit in better.”

    I finally went to my PCP, without telling anyone. I asked, “What should I do?” The PCP had no answers for me. This PCP was a Harvard Community Health Plan doctor. Over three decades later, that one single visit that I had made in 1982 was still on record in Harvard Vanguard’s electronic records, when I fired MGH in 2013. So I found that Harvard Vanguard’s records incorrectly recorded me as “bulimic.” I suppose that was a secretary error. I corrected and they took it off.

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  • I plan to submit. I know one thing I want to say, and will state here, that those of us who submitted to ECT willingly, or even asked for ECT, later on, most naturally, due to human nature, would have a very hard time facing up to having willingly taken part in the destruction of one’s own precious brain.

    Today while on the bus I thought of an analogy. I wonder if the FDA is like the shrinks I used to see, who hated my analogies and refused to listen to any of them. Maybe I was too much of a smart aleck. I am so glad I left that world. Here it is: Say you had ordered from a craftsman, a beautiful, custom-made polished wood coffee table for your mother. This cost you, say a thousand dollars, and you know the person who made it. you waited a month. The man calls you a week before your mom’s birthday so you go pick it up.

    You decide to make a card for her, and since she is somewhat vision-impaired, you write clearly on the card in felt tip marker and bright colors. “I love you, Mom.” You so much believe in what you are doing. Those words sink in deep.

    Yep, so deep, and that wasn’t a felt tip. It was a Sharpie. Oh shit.

    You are saying the absolute worst swear in your mind right now, staring at those ink stains on that coffee table, that will never come out. You ruined it. You ruined it through your own doing.

    What now? Cover it with a placemat? How about buying another table, and hiding this one, shoving this one in the corner and pretending all this never happened? Or spending a whole lot patching up the boo-boo you did, but didn’t do willingly?

    How many years will it take before you admit to all that? Will you EVER tell Mom? Will you ever tell your buddy the craftsman? In ten years? Fifteen? By then, in your own mind, you’ve forgotten it ever happened.

    Many of us, during our childhood, break a favorite toy, and we are so, so ashamed, we hide it in our closets, never wanting anyone to know. I believe this is what causes people to deny ECT harm. I wrote my entire memoir, my master’s thesis, and even when it was finally published, I still never realized the entire chapter, “Walking the Line,” was not about “illness,” it was all about my experience at McLean post-ECT. My ECT was in 1996!

    My own mind, my own self-defense system sufficed to cover up my deep shame. All they had to do was avoid admitting the truth to me for about a year and a half, and avoid answering, “What’s wrong with my brain”? Most likely, this works almost every time.

    Julie and Puzzle

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  • I would like to add to these wonderful comments that I have posted my ECT narrative in my blog, which can be accessed here:

    http://www.juliemadblogger.wordpress.com/ect-pages

    From there, you will find a link to the sub-page containing a story called “Lest We Not Forget” which I wrote recently, and a link also to a prior ECT narrative focusing more on my late boyfriend Joe Casey’s response to my ECT “treatments,” a narrative I read aloud called “Sweet Evening Breeze.” I put this on YouTube.

    Please share these stories with as many people as you would like. My writing is my gift to the world. They are Boston-based stories, the first very much a love story, the second focuses more on my Jewish heritage and how I, as Jewish female was victimized by the System.

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  • Frank, Puzzle is not fooled by placebo bones. A photo of a bone tastes like photo paper and ink to her.

    Somehow, there’s a bit more wisdom in the above statement than I bargained for. Maybe Puzzle should have told me that some 30 years ago. “Puzzle, why didn’t you wake me up sooner! Drat! How long have I been asleep!”

    Bradford, other patients kept telling me that 20 therapists wasn’t enough. The 21st would come along, they said, and that one would be the right one.

    The Right One? The very best therapist for you is you. Guaranteed. Why? You are the #1 expert on YOU. Hmm…So my guess is that none of us will have a lengthy commute.

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  • That’s funny, with each DSM, these diagnoses get a makeover faster than our various tech giants such as Microsoft come out with newfangled versions. Soon enough, patients will wake up each morning only to find a note by their beds, “Congratulations. You diagnosis was successfully updated to the latest version.”

    Do we need to unhook, unplug, skip out on appointments, tune out, stop complying, and at least start questioning what we are told or getting a second opinion now and then? Or, how about this, ya’lls: When the time comes to die decades too young from everything psychiatry does or did, and St. Peter, while standing at the gate, does his role call, kindly do the following: When he calls out, “NEXT!” just don’t show up. And I’ll see you tomorrow instead. Love, Julie and Puzzle.

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  • Interestingly, BPD, the therapies that WORK, the ones we grow out of and don’t need anymore are the ones very few can access. Effective, humane treatment is simply not accessible to most people. What is accessible is ineffective, long term addictive treatment, inhumane treatment, abusive treatment, and that which makes people worse or leads to iatrogenic damages such as chronic pain related problems, resulting trauma, and worsening depression.

    Yes, we can change this. 1) Show we can live just fine without inhumane treatment. 2) Those who are caregivers refuse to use force in their practice 3) Define ourselves as who we are, not as diagnoses, and care for ourselves in a way that we choose. 4) Help and encourage those to do likewise, through legal advocacy, encouragement, and setting decent examples ourselves. 5) Continue to pass our stories along, so that our words will not die with us, but live on, and carry our message to the world that still suffers. Lest we not forget that we were once slaves. 6) Next year, Freedom.

    I borrowed a bit of that from my own memories of the Passover Seder.

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  • No, no no no no. We “need” treatment just as much as a diabetic “needs” insulin.

    However, the goal of “diabetes management” is “self-management.” Most doctors and other caregivers are happy and proud when a diabetic patient decides to take things into his/her own hands and quit smoking, join a gym, eat healthy, or take up yoga. Doctors are happy to see patients taking initiative to lower sugar on their own, and reduce the frequency of lab checks and ER visits.

    Not so for the mental patient. Should a mental patient decide to try fish oil, he/she is “self-medicating,” possibly engaging in “risk-taking behavior” since he didn’t consult his doctor. He is no longer considered a competent decision-maker.

    When I decided to take up running as a possible way to take better pride in my body and help myself see food as fuel instead of fearing it as my enemy that would make me fat, and found that I was making immense progress, I was immediately knocked down by my “therapist.” I know now she depended on keeping me weak and needy. She insisted that I was “self-harming” by “overexercising.” To make her extra furious, I went out and ran my first 5k. That was December 19, 2010. My therpist was so, so mad. She insisted I go to the psych ER on the 1st of January, for a broken tooth. That was a rather long and costly ordeal, I must say, in the name of “therapy.”

    PS: I don’t run that fast, but in my heart, I won that race. The next one’s gonna be a 10k. Just for her…Naw, in spite of her. For you all’s.

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  • Wait! Look at what is assumed to be true here, but in fact, might not be. When I was a kid, depression, whether you might have thought of it as “just sad,” or, “to the point of thinking of suicide daily,” was never considered a disease. No matter how bad it was, and how much a person suffered, it still was not a disease. It was seen as something a person endured. By all means, we all hoped that the person would feel better. I recall speaking to others my age and telling them I was concerned. Did I desire to do hocus pocus to “fix” what I did not see as disorder? No! Nor did anyone, at that time. Human suffering is part of life. We are doing a person who suffers a disservice by calling suffering “illness” in the media, in mental health offices, and in our social circles. This only alienates the person, pressuring that person, now desigated sicko, to “get well soon.” If I feel depressed the last thing I am going to do is anything close to “Ask your doctor.” Why? I’m not sick! To me, this is common sense. God forbid, a doctor visit is far more expensive than cracking a few jokes and shaking up the ole brain cells.

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  • Thanks so much for your feedback! I would agree that force cannot produce a will to make any deliberate radical change in one’s life. One must act, and not be acted upon, as you stated…the receiving end. Eating again takes action, not inaction, for sure, tons of will to deliberately put fork to mouth. Force, that is, being acted upon, will only be met with equal or worse opposing force. When one considers this most interesting way of putting it, The Receiving End…as vessel to be filled, or rather, shoved into….this, to me, is the horror and trauma of force-feeding. Threats, too, are commonplace and such scare tactics would certainly be seen in the eyes of most as torture, especially if done to a minor. “If you don’t gain, you’ll be forcefully taken from your own world, the only world you have ever known, and shoved into a terrifying prison-like place. This is what you deserve. (You are bad.) It is for your own good. (You are incapable and childish, unworthy of any participation in this decision.)”

    To be cared for, to be believed, to be honored for who you are, to be cherished for your own uniqueness, these are all wonderful reasons to desire life over thinness. That was all I wanted, to end societal rejection, to stop the blatant neglect, and to have the freedom to say, “Enough. I am starting over.”

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  • Hello AA, you know that scenario, though perhaps sounding like a realistic slice of life of the average human being’s day, was a bit of tongue in cheek on my part only to illustrate a point. And yes I think they stuck their feet straight into their mouths with that deliberate, intentional diabetes lie. Don’t they even feel the least twinge of guilt over such an atrocity? Like telling us the truth isn’t all that important. We’re subhuman, whatever percentage lesser than human, never quite rightful citizens deserving of respect and upfront honesty. We’re not worth it, we’re commodity, disposable, only one more negligible statistic easily swept under the rug should they screw up.

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  • Back in the day, psychiatrists relied more on placebo effect. I think that’s insulting and dishonest, though. At an eating disorders facility they handed out stomach pills, an antacid (real smart! ha ha)and one called Simethicone, which had years ago been proven completely ineffective. I never took any of them, knowing they would harm my digestive system, giving me worse stomach aches, or do nothing. I’d say 99% of the patients lined up after every single meal. Others lined up for Zyprexa. They were lied to and told it was for sleep.

    I stepped back and looked at the line of suckers all standing there, doped up. I asked myself, “‘Should I say something? What if I did?” Then, I figured it would being five years old and telling the neighbor kid there was no such thing as Santa. No one wants to believe it at first. Coming to terms with the lie is like you are going through the Five State of Grief.

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  • Hmm… So today, I went to the doc who said my brain needs fixing and suggested therapy to change my brain waves. I asked him if there were any alternatives that he would suggest. He said, “Oh no, you need this like a diabetic needs insulin.”

    I ran home, changing my brain radically while doing so. I ate lunch, choosing foods that affected my brain. I petted my dog and wow my brain felt terrific. I spent time knitting, (which in a study was shown to help people with eating disorders). Then, the sun went down, causing a radical brain shift. I went to meet my sweetheart. My pupils dilated, worthy of an EEG test. My sweetheart and I hopped into bed and had wild sex. Then, the biggest brain change of all: I slept.

    The next day, the doc called. He asked me if I’d been to the therapist. I said, “Don’t worry. I feel great, doc.”

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  • Thanks! That’s so sweet of you to say. Only don’t read by shining stars or it’s bad for people’s eyes. Didn’t your parents tell you that when you were little? Didn’t you disobey them? Well? Naughty naughty for following shining stars! Why do you think I got such thick glasses? I had this night light and I used to sit under that way past bedtime. That’s how I got through that big stack of books I kept taking out at library each week. Don’t tell anyone. We may have lost Brownie points with staff by disobeying them, but shared tips with each other on how to survive those places and maintain some sense of dignity and hope.

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  • God must have known, since he created Eve with a touch of rebellious spirit, just how she’d respond when he told her, “Don’t you dare eat that apple!” Didn’t Sarah inherit a bit of that Oppositional Defiant Disorder when she laughed at God upon hearing she’d bear a child? For that bit of a joke she named her child Itzahk, Isaak, meaning “laughter.”

    A 2011 study shocked researchers when they found no correlating “mental illness” among those with anorexia except perhaps ODD! I am so, so delighted I inherited this wonderful character trait from my women ancestors, who were created by God in Her Image. Question Authority, It’ll Save Your Life. That’s why God is probably still around and laughing her fool head off.

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  • John, part of the reason hospitals kill is the risk of refeeding syndrome. This also was a problem after the Nazi Holocaust. The soldiers attempted to feed the survivors they found, but if they fed them food too rich, the survivors died due to diarrhea. They also found that if weight gain was too rapid, survivors died from heart failure and edema. Refeeding syndrome today almost always occurs from rapid artificial feeding via a tube. Actually, a hospital roommate of mine died that way. I knew this and tried to challenge the hospital while I was kept there.

    Another reason is that many people who suffer anorexia commit suicide after being released. Hospitalization is gross violation of privacy far beyond what regular psych hospitalization does. He/she is scrutinized while eating and demeaned and criticized. Tube feeding, if done against the patient’s will and by force, is rape via the nostril. The trauma is denied and the patient is told “It’s for your own good.” The patient is watched while showering and while going to the bathroom (not always but sometimes). Not only that, but she/he may face ridicule upon returning home. If he/she even has friends or family left.

    Imagine this happening to extremely young children. Six or seven years old now. This is why we all should care. This is a grossly neglected population. This is a population that does NOT need more access to care. Forced care is wrong, and patients are better off without force and coercion in their lives. This is a population that needs respect and love and we need it now.

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  • Yes, bpd transformation, it is true that patients fall prey to staff-worshipping. It is part of the brainwashing. The Golden Calves. The Messiahs. But first, patients must admit we have a disorder. We must admit we have a label, that we fit nicely and neatly into their categories. This is why shrinks must constantly revise the DSM to convince us we have disorders, to convince us we need Staff so we’ll worship them, so they’ll be elevated as Gods on High. The ones that have it together, and ones that are sick. There’s no other way than DSM lies to produce the splitting that the Messianic class needs to sustain it economically. However, if the DSM were universally true, then it wouldn’t need such frequent revision! Five versions already?

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  • truth, According to my mother, who was appalled at the ECT, I always had an exceptional memory. After the ECT, I couldn’t put a sentence together, I was getting lost in the streets and they decided to put me in the state hospital. All that lasted a year and a half. As I said, it’s all unpredictable, totally, they are totally clueless. They can’t aim any better than I can at baseball. I’m that kid who swung and missed. I’m that kid who was always picked last for the teams, and for good reason!

    I did, in fact, once hit a double at baseball, purely by accident. I was praised by my coach, but I admit it was by pure luck. So I did, in fact, get my good memory back. But it was good to begin with, and as I said, I am missing things. And I am not saying there weren’t immense damages. The ECT is what split up my family. The ECT got a harmful fake dx put on permanent record just to cover up the damages. Dx harmed me very badly for the next couple of decades, you bet! And the cost to taxpayers? Probably millions. Ask my nephews if they’d like to have known their aunt. That’s the cost of ECT.

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  • Yes, don’t forget, also first line of “treatment” if your insurance is running out. For those of us who are Medicare recipients who were in private facilities, when nearing the end of our lifetime 190 days, that’s what they did. I’m surprised at how universal it seems to be. Milk the insurance while they still can, as much as they still can. Then, when they’ve battered the patient to bits, send her to State. She’s useless waste now. I gotta laugh, though, because after all that I ended up shocking *them,* snapping out of it and wildly succeeding at college. It’s even funnier that I write memoir, which relies on memory. My college professors marveled because mine is practically photographic, which I honestly cannot explain. Yes I remember lying on the table and yes I remember giving verbal “consent” for bilateral and the exact words used. I’m sure they hate me for that. Apparently I’m not alone here, having had very long-term, but mostly not permanent damage. This ECT is so dangerous since it’s highly unpredictable. Even the experts cannot predict, apparently. On the other hand, there are a few empty spaces there, in my thirties, and I wonder if I’ve lost some of my musical talent as well. I’m afraid to find out.

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  • Lauren, the first time I had ECT they gave me four “treatments” in 1995. The second time, which I have just documented, by the way, was 1996. This, in fact, was on my request. My inpatient doctor was a resident, who now is actually famous, Dr. Montgomery Brower. but then, he was in his second residency year. Dr. Michael Henry was the new shock doc at McLean. They took me off the cocktail of anticonvulsants immediately before the first shock they did. The plan was for Dr. Brower to witness my ECT. Well, I felt kinda special being a guinea pig I guess. I felt important, like I mattered a little bit for a change. What happened was that as usual, the clinic was delayed by about an hour. I happen to remember this since I was desperately thirsty, having had to withhold fluids since midnight, and all I could think about was that drink of water I was going to get afterward. So when I had the treatment, afterward, right when I came to, the nurse was looking at me funny. Immediately, I knew something had gone wrong. The first thing I wanted was my glasses. Then, I wanted to know what went wrong beyond, “Am I alive?” I was. But….What went wrong? She stood there shaking her head like….I’m sorry…..Like someone was dead. I was livid. I wanted to know.

    It turned out that they’d screwed up and not taken me off the anticonvulsants soon enough. So I didn’t have a seizure, they said. It took me until I wrote the passages in the book just a couple of weeks ago, nearly two decades later, to realize what had happened. I wonder now. Okay….Scenario. Yes, this is speculation:

    One shock: No seizure. Up the voltage. Second shock. No seizure. Up the voltage. Third shock. No seizure. Oops, we can’t go higher, we might lose her, then, the parents might sue. The father’s a bigwig in NAMI, you know. He’s the one who worked to close down the Met. But he’s dying of cancer, would they really? Try one more shock. No seizure. Okay, let’s quit. She’ll never know.

    Brower didn’t witness it. Apparently, because of the delay, he had some meeting, he claimed. He works in forensics now.

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  • A couple more things: If you want to change your thinking, read books! Get educated! Take classes! Do art! Go for a run! My guess is that in the long term, or even the short term, MH “care” is most likely far more expensive than college! How many of us had to defer on college loans? How many parents had to give up the idea of paying off the mortgage?

    #2: Remember, many therapists work fee-for-service. For those of you who don’t know (or live in places where this doesn’t happen) this means if the client doesn’t show, the therapist doesn’t get paid. The request by a supervisor to “get your numbers up,” means “improve your clients’ attendance.” A salaried position is considered to be more lucrative for the therapist since income is more reliable and steady. The therapists liked me. I was meticulous about showing up, not only that, on time. (I feel so flattered knowing that I was mere commodity for over three decades.)

    I guess nowadays I’m meticulously noncompliant. If it’s possible to do a thing unconventionally, differently, offbeat, outside the box, rule-breaking, creatively, or weirdly, I most certainly do! Why bother with recipes when you can make up your own? (A year ago today, I baked my own invention, a “Liver birthday cake” for my Puzzle, my dog, decorated with green pepper icing and carrot stick candles, eight in all with one to grow on….)

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  • The article doesn’t specify that they have indeed found any brain abnormalities among people with supposed MI beyond what has been caused by treatment. We know that neurological disorders are detectable via testing, often including unusual seizure activity or deterioration (in the case of dementia, or injury if sustaining a TBI (including ECT). The article only states that studies have shown “differences” between those with neuro abnormalities and those without. It doesn’t state differences between the supposed MI and the general population, beyond what is caused by the various treatments, and possibly poverty, lack of sunlight, malnutrition, and neglect, also caused by treatment.

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  • Lauren, Thanks for this terrific expose. I especially want to thank you for validating that “anecdotal evidence” is more than important, it’s essential. One of the most valuable lessons I learned in writing school was the difference, in memoir, between truth and accuracy. The truth comes out in every story even if memory has not quite recorded every detail perfectly. It’s a given that human memory is flawed. To write the truth is essential, though. Audiences are well aware that we are wonderfully flawed.

    That said, can any statistical evidence truly tell the public what it FEELS like to have one’s memories erased, or to live each day so confused one cannot function? The naive public will continue to dismiss suicides that occur following ECT, stating, “He was depressed anyway. It was bound to happen after he got back. even though they tried to save him.” On the other hand, if those of us who have survived the ECT ordeal speak out, and find venues where we are allowed to do so, describing what happened and how it affected us, then perhaps we can shake some sense into those swayed by the media.

    Not everyone reads. We need to speak out in other ways, too, not only in narrative, but in poetry, art, dance, music, teaching, social media, film, or any medium of our choice.

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  • Thanks, SnowyOwl, this hits the nail on the head for me. I, too, see drugs as a choice. It must be completely a choice. I purchased some without a prescription here where I live in a neighborhood pharmacy. I don’t have any use for tranquilizers and would never take an antidepressant again. I do get depressed but it just never bothers me anymore! What I do have is a supply of a drug that has helped me in the past with binge eating. I have promised myself that this is going to remain an option, a fallback, just in case nothing else works and the binge eating gets so bad that my life is in danger physically. I’ve been to that point before. However, I have not needed to take any of that drug at all recently. It’s a risk to take it, and if I ever need to resort to it, it’ll be short-term only. I find other things, mostly dietary measures, work far better! Only Big Pharma don’t want us to know! I was really very badly afflicted with ED in the past, it was not a mild case at all, nor was it “secondary” to some other problem, such as impulsivity (I’m not) or perfectionism (I’m not). The ED came darned near close to killing me. It was no joke. I can’t say shrinkage helped at all, especially not therapy, but instead, delayed recovery by several decades.

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  • From my observations of other patients and of myself while I was in the System over 30 years, parental expectations figure huge in a child’s life, well into adulthood and even into senior years. We tend to become what is expected of us. Educators know this scenario well. A responsible educator will not carry over the previous teacher’s negative expectations of a student, but will start afresh. On one hand, it is important for teachers to be sensitive to cultural differences and vast differences in the way children learn. On the other, to expect troublemaking from a particular student will only lead to further mischief. With parental expectations, the stakes can be even higher. It’s been documented that some women around my age (approaching retirement) free themselves up tremendously following the deaths of their mothers. I don’t notice this with myself, though, but a few of my friends have noticed this.

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  • Kate, I stayed in the System for 30 years wondering why I wasn’t getting better, and in fact, after those three decades, I was far worse off. I know I was lied to about my condition many times. I was deceived about side effects of these treatments, I was told that my new worsening condition couldn’t possibly have been treatment-induced. That was a lie and also malpractice, leading to further false diagnoses. I see this happening to many of my friends who buy into these diagnoses and feel hopeless, lost, and suicidal.

    Usually, when people confront me in such rude manner, it is because their own reality is in question, and they need to look in the mirror and ask why they themselves are still in treatment and not improving. It’s probably a good thing. I choose not to be silent about what happened to me.

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  • Kate, I was in the system and fully compliant for over three decades. Plenty of times, I have seen people considered “the sickest” make amazing strides and end up fine, totally independent and raising families, too.

    I, too, was considered among “the sickest.” However, eventually, I went to college, earned my bachelor’s without any “accommodations” whatsoever, and then, earned my master’s with flying colors.

    “Sick” in mental health is in the eyes of those that write up medical records and file with insurance for reimbursement, the most money they can possibly get. What’s on one’s record is permanent, and it takes a superhuman leap to get out of that trap. With the computerized records, patients have diagnoses following them around for life. Psych diagnosis is a permanent record of a temporary problem, and for that reason, a human rights violation.

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  • Eric, The latest news is that there have been multiple delays, multiple proposed versions, stalling, etc. Of course, this is rather typical of Congress anyway. Now I have heard that many who know one heck of a lot more than I do about the goings-on in Washington are saying they doubt the bill will pass. We can only hope. Is the stalling a good sign or not?

    Julie

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  • Oldhead, They usually lock it up but might let folks have theirs if they ask nicely. Some places search visitors. Seriously! No pocketbooks, nothing but keys. I don’t know if they take the keys or let the visitor have them. What about something that looked like a nitroglyceryn container or epi-pen? They know the wheelchair trick now. Still, I doubt they’d go so far as to look inside the tubing. Usually if there are drugs in there, dogs can find them a lot easier than people can. Inside a cane? They wouldn’t take a cane away.

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  • I think this is a good idea. I have been thinking along these lines myself. We used to say, “Why not go to a hotel if you need to get away?” since the hospitals did more harm than good. A change of scenery works wonders. That’s probably the main reason people breathed a sigh of relief as soon as they got there. It wasn’t that the hospital was great. It was that wherever they came from sucked worse.

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  • As humans, we are no different. The difference is that survivors have been made into commodity by psychiatry and its institutions, and there are folks out there who have never been in our position. However, the public, whether exposed first-hand to the System or not has to pay. They are subject to lies, cover-up, scare tactics about “those people,” fear of catching these dreaded plagues themselves, and loss of taxes and deterioration of society. How can it not deteriorate when there’s an atmosphere of distrust and deception?

    I think of the elderly folks I’ve known, living in constant fear of getting taken away from their homes for good if they dare show anything resembling dementia. They become psych victims, too. You see it in their eyes, terrified of their own families.

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  • Boans, thirty years of shrinkage means I have so many wonderful stories stored up. It means an endless supply of ideas. I am indeed naming names….They make great characters!

    You know, traditionally, you give your hero an Achilles’ heel, to make him seem believable. Your villain is the “bad guy we love to hate.” I am enjoying using their quirks and mannerisms to paint a rather realistic, if not comical picture.

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  • Boans I like your approach in terms of each of us contributing any way we can. The book I am writing is coming along so fast and so easily…it’s such a blessing to have the freedom to write without threats and without drugs to slow down my mind and squelch my creativity. I am enjoying saying “nyah nyah” to all those who claimed I was incapable and hopelessly “lacking insight.” That bit truly cracks me up now.

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  • While the presence of hidden cameras is arguably a human rights/privacy concern, this would be done to change the worse human rights violations already being done and to protect those who are being abused, provide tangible proof, etc. They have cameras there already.

    Consider that many people out there think nothing of store security cameras (for the “public good”), traffic cameras (“safety”) and asking police to be tracked by camera.

    Cameras marketed to folks who hire nannies….Cameras in nursing homes….Yeah it’s debatable but I would think that those who are being abused are so, so thankful.

    I would imagine laws vary according to location. I wonder if the laws could allow for, say, paperwork to be filed applying for legal permission to plant a hidden camera if there’s good reason to suspect abuse. After all, police can get a warrant to raid your home if they can show they have good reason to suspect illegal activity such as child porn. (Yeah I know they raid illegally too.) But such paperwork would allow the recording to be submitted in court as valid evidence.

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  • I do, too. It’s not so bad, never really was. I never understood why anyone would drug bad feelings. I’d rather feel them. When I first learned about psych drugs in 1981, first learned that one could take a pill and not be “anxious,” I asked myself, “Why would anyone do that?” Some of us didn’t grow up with the “go medicate it” mentality. Those that grew up with it don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t want to “feel better” since taking a pill is so easy.

    Not to say that feeling stuff is easy. I am out of the meds and therapy routine now and find that having real feelings and owning them is a joy. I’m much happier. It gets better, too, lots better but you have to wait a while until the dust of Walking Out of Tx settles. Folks get over it, but I needed to let them process, too. It was unfair to ask for others to rush to understand me and in the same breath demand that they quit rushing me to “get over” the trauma. I’m realizing that much of my struggle was realizing just that. Leave the body alone and allow it to heal itself. Trust.

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  • boans! Boans! Are you being so presumptuous, maybe a bit of grandiose, to elevate your status to that of someone’s dog?

    Now, if you were Puzzle, you’d know what it is like to waited on hand and foot. She might as well be wearing a crown. She’s already dressed for the part, wearing the Emperor’s New Clothes.

    High status sometimes comes in small packages, are fuzzy, and eat anything that’s gross.

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  • Check out Sarah’s online open mic! Saturday nights! Also, to answer your question, getting my MFA was like….learning that in writing school everything so totally contradicts everything that shrinks taught me. I think the timing is no coincidence. I finished undergrad in 2003, finished grad in 2009….and then, shit hit the fan. Because shrinkage no longer worked for me. I saw the lies, and once that wool that was covering your eyes comes off, a weird thing happens. You try to put it back on, in fact, you are desperate to do so, but lo and behold, it doesn’t fit anymore! Uh oh! Reality!

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  • I brought a small recorder into my shrink’s office at an outpatient appointment. I don’t have many recordings and the most abusive sessions were not recorded, unfortunately. You do hear the abuse, though. This is not what one would think of as brutal, but rather, micro-insults and the like. I wish I had recorded her yelling and screaming at me and threatening me. It’s possible I have a recording of an abusive male therapist calling me Honey. I’ll have to check on that.

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  • I already made a You-Tube specifically on abuse. No, I didn’t release tapes, nothing like that, but I had just come out of the abusive hospitalization. The cool thing is that no one refutes me in the commentary below my You-Tube. I did it all candidly without any preparation. I spared nothing. I even spoke of issues like going to the bathroom. My hair was a mess and I wasn’t even dressed all the way, but all you see is my head and shoulders. I cried right in front of the camera. If anyone doubted me before, they knew after seeing the trauma rather visibly that I wasn’t lying or delusional. I’ve never made anything that went viral, but I believe that one You-Tube got far more hits than any other I did.

    https://youtu.be/w2bOe6eZAkU

    Desha Blue has also put out many, many YouTubes. I learned that YouTube is a super good medium for catching the public eye.

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  • Hi Sarah, This is a great summary of what is not okay with the Murphy Bill. I was right there with you, cheering you on (since I am a fan of yours for sure!) until you suddenly addressed community members, family, etc. Here’s the line I am referring to: “But nothing will change as long as people like you – families, friends, neighbors, educators, employers, public servants – continue (like the provider system) to not listen.” After that turn, the turn where you are addressing this new audience, the “you,” the shift is jarring to me, since before the turn, the intended or implied “you” was someone else.

    On one hand, you are asking everyone to call the officials, or write, to express our outrage. Yay! I’m glad you provided these links and by reading the article, we can easily glean a zillion reasons why the Murphy Bill is a bad idea. I love that you are encouraging action and suggesting ways we can stop the bill.

    You are also addressing a different “you,” asking for a change that isn’t exactly the same. By all means, listening is a good idea and it’s about time those of us who have been silenced be allowed a voice. I see your request as valid, and as you say, we’ve been saying this for years.

    The juxtaposition of these two demands, and the shift to a different audience, is what confuses me. Hmm… What if I combined these ideas? Let me play with this for a second. Yes, we need to be listened to, but also, we need to listen to each other better, too. Some folks feel that there is far too much bickering in the movement. There is no clear-cut line between productive and invigorating discussion or even argument, and outright backstabbing. That I know of, though, very few posts are moderated out of discussions here, and I give MIA editors a lot of credit for that, since we moderate ourselves just fine, as per example in many of the discussions including the one here where folks disagree about guns. We’re a more civil bunch than we give ourselves credit for. And they called us “crazy”…….

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  • Paula, this is so important, especially for veterans who are often denied healthcare even though on paper it says they receive it (which is baloney).

    I find it interesting that denial of mental health services seems to benefit many. Those of us denied end up more self-sufficient, though I cannot say that applies to all sufferers. We do our own research, which is undoubtedly more thorough than what you get in “patient leaflets” or even what we hear from our doctors or “staff.” I am surprised at how many patients who get “care” deliberately keep themselves in the dark about “meds,” relying on one source only and never questioning its validity.

    Even the best doctors don’t know everything. In fact, it’s unfair of anyone to demand that they do. They aren’t perfect. They aren’t the Heavenly Gods on High. I used to get upset if a doctor made a mistake. It took me a long time to realize they are human, too, since many of them portrayed themselves as flawless. I do expect an apology if ever a mistake or oversight is made, though. I don’t appreciate it when they brush such errors aside or tell me it was for my own good (such as HIPAA violations, for instance).

    I think far more patients who are denied are actually thriving than the gov’t realizes or wants to acknowledge. Look at the number of voice-hearers who see no reason to consult a shrink and are highly successful!

    Consulting library sources, forums, medical journals, feedback on websites, reviews on Amazon, asking your friends and fellow patients, consulting those you know who work in healthcare, and self-experimentation (which is so underrated!), all these will give a person a comprehensive picture far beyond the words and handouts we get at doctors’ offices. Those of us who do so learn to read in a discerning manner, consider the sources and venue, and then, decide on our own.

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  • Paula, absolutely no worries about the osteoporosis. This is about the funniest thing ever–I got over the osteoporosis, which by all means I did have, since when I broke my leg it got screwed together, and the doc was shocked at what he saw. In the presence of only me and my late mother, he stated that my bones were “the consistency of balsa wood.” He marveled that I could still walk! However, what happened was that they gave me Seroquel. The dose was increased to 600 in 2000, and that’s when the massive weight gain began. I had gained 60 pounds by fall of 2004. That’s when the Seroquel was raised to 900. Then, I gained even faster, and that winter topped it at a total weight gain of 110 pounds. I’m tiny, 5’1″, and what that meant for me was that my total weight had more than doubled on Seroquel. My theory, which all the doctors laughed at, was that during that rapid weight gain (and noticeable spells of sweating and weakness to the point where I couldn’t stand up anymore and once had to sit in the snow) I believe my estrogen hit the roof. That wasn’t at all safe, but what it did was to repair my bones! So then, they told me I never had osteoporosis and that I was “faking it.” This is so typical, discredit the patient whenever possible. I was so heavy that I spent three months in a wheelchair. I literally burst out of it and the screws popped out. When all that was over, and I got off the drug on my own insistence, my psychiatrist, while on one hand finally admitting the Seroquel “might have been a mistake,” she insisted, “But you were so happy on it!” Happy? Seroquel was the one pill that made it tough to be creative, and around 2002-2005, I started wondering if I was losing it as a writer.

    When my weight plummeted, my shrink refused to attribute the “revenge anorexia” to her own irresponsible actions, and instead, claimed I had “growing up problems.” Then, I got TD. I must have been dieting with a vengeance. All that almost killed me. It’s amazing that not only am I still alive, but I am healthier and happier than I have been in decades. I can run farther and faster than I ever did before. I’m hoping to do a 10k soon, and I’m going to be 58 by that time.

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  • Hey you guys, Here we have criticized Dr. Berezin’s statements regarding “bad mothering” (however you want to put it) and then, Dr. Berezin backed down. I am wondering if he meant what he said, and then, says he didn’t mean it to appease us.

    I’ve been caught in the same ordeal. I might say something others think is incorrect or, on my end, I worded it in an ambiguous way. I get attacked. If what I said was correct, I reiterate my stance, firmly. If I realize I was incorrect, I SHOULD say, “I’m sorry, I was completely mistaken and I am sorry I misled you.” However, if I am attacked in a rather vicious way or repeatedly, I might get all flustered, lose my concentration and tact, and say, “I didn’t really mean that, I guess I was unclear.” This response on my part is also rather rude and in fact, defensive when really, I should concede or admit fault. It’s hard, though, under such pressure. Since I haven’t, the others usually attack me again, “Well, then, why did you say that?”

    Isn’t this what’s happening? This is a published article and enough of us have contended it (with examples) that I think Dr. Berezen should do the PC thing and concede. Or maybe put up an addendum to the article or ask the editors to allow him to rewrite a few paragraphs.

    We don’t often see this kind of thing in journalism. Often, when an article is published, the publication editors won’t stand for argument and edit out any comments that contend the writer’s stance. Bravo to MIA for allowing such diverse discussions.

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  • What an awesome article. As survivor of this drug, I am grateful, and I love the way story was told. I believe I was on it from around 1993 until 2011, usually taking 6 mg., along with the rest of the cocktail I never needed. I went off cold turkey from 3mg no problem, and by all means felt better! Damages included lost menstrual periods resulting in osteoporosis and a fracture in 1999 (which confirmed the bone problem), breast milk, a close call with Tardive Dyskenesia (started in one hand, my right), and god knows what else, possibly neuro irregularities and part of my heart enlarged, one of the aortas, not sure. I was a Clozaril guinea pig, put on it for no reason but told, “You’re getting special treatment so quit being a pest,” and maybe a year later switched to Risperdal, when they told me “It’s better.” For what, I have no clue!

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  • You figure when it comes to professional people, there are a range. If you go to a mechanic, you find almost all are trained enough to know the basics. Some are amazing, they work like detectives and know your car inside-out. A small minority are dishonest, they might put in cheap replacement parts or overcharge. Same with any other professional who provides a service. Therapy by all means should work if it is done respectfully. I don’t see a similar bell curve with therapists. Almost all are incompetent or abusive. Maybe 1% are respectful. Actually, I think showing respect, which most of us got little of in the past, is 99% of what most people need to heal. Respect is the core of human rights. I’d say education is the rest of the percentage. Again, it’s a matter of right to access information, all human rights issues.

    An acquaintance of mine was upset because he’d had a vasectomy he later regretted. He considered suicide. He went to therapy. It lasted ONE SESSION. She didn’t label him. Instead, she respectfully informed him that a vasectomy can be reversed. No one had given him this vital information. He told me later she saved his life, and he never considered suicide after that. He didn’t need further therapy.

    I personally had the “transference method” done on me rather deliberately once. This is how it happened. I was around 28 or 29 years old. I was coerced into attending day treatment. I don’t know how this happened, but I fell in love with my administrator there, who was in her 50’s at the time, maybe the age I am now. I told her directly how I felt. I recall the extremely uncomfortable expression on her face. Then, suddenly, she undid her uncomfortable face and put on a smile and said, “It’s normal.” But nothing she did was normal after that. She kept me in that program over three years, when I didn’t even need the program. She flirted with me, allowing me to whisper “I love you” into her ear, giving me all sorts of extra time, claiming I needed it, even came to my home. Her physical contact with me was totally inappropriate. All the clients were aware of my “special” relationship with Liz. I felt so, so embarrassed after a while. So the last day I was there, I was on my way out and I overheard the therapists congratulating her. That’s when suddenly I snapped out of it and realized I’d been abused. I was standing downstairs at the door and I recall looking up the stairs where all the staff had gathered. They didn’t know I heard them. I fled out of there and never looked back.

    Years later, in 1997, I found out a few interesting tidbits from another “graduate” of the program. After I had left around 1991 or 1992, five patients were hospitalized after the director resigned, even though she had told everyone well ahead of time. Apparently they were so dependent that they couldn’t handle it. Another staff suddenly announced that he and a female client were getting married and were leaving the program. Then, a long-time client suicided. So you see what happens from bad therapy.

    There is a fine line between caring and abuse. There is no question in my mind that my therapist at that program had crossed over the line of respect, deliberately, thinking her “love” was helping. I tried to tell my next therapist but it completely flew over her head. I remember the day I told her. My boyfriend was in the room.

    I don’t see a bell curve when it comes to therapists. I see tons who abuse, others who justify the abuse done by other therapists and back them, many totally incompetent, many dishonest, and a select few (1%?) who are truly good. Who are the good ones? How much are they charging? I ask because I see a split. You don’t see many of these exceptions who don’t charge a fortune. A person who is out of work cannot pay $100 a session once or twice a week, but many of these charge much more. Charging insane fees is disrespectful, so are they really that good? I’ve seen $300 or more per session from some of them. Therapist for the rich? I guess so! At the overcrowded clinics, a person is on a waitlist for months, then takes whomever is available. Many clinics turn patients away and won’t even put them on a waitlist. In those clinics, I’ve noticed very few are decent and respectful, and they don’t stick around. I’ve noticed the pay is very low, few or no benefits, and working conditions can be deplorable.

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  • While I agree, I don’t like using THEIR terminology. Plus lack of boundaries is learned, it’s not a disease. Simple education will help, plus gaining real-life experience dealing with various situations.

    For instance, I have so little experience being employed that when I have been employed, or when applying for a job, I sometimes consult outside people, whom I feel are wise and experienced, for “advice.” I need to do this simply because I don’t know how to do a job interview nor do I know how to act on the job. If I were to be in a workplace right now, I’m sure I’d do what shrinks call boundary violations, not due to disorder or bad morals, but because I am completely clueless as to how to act. Same with dating. I don’t know how to act on a date and if I’m ever asked to bed, I’m sure I’ll screw up that one. Four or five dates later, I might get it right.

    So while yes, boundaries can be problematic for humans, can we use different non-clinical terminology? Mainly I ask this because it hits a sore spot, I really disliked the childish groups I had to attend on the topic, among other topics they loved to grind into our heads. It was seriously hypocritical since the therapists didn’t seem to follow their own advice.

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  • B, I love your comments. I agree. “Character problems”…it’s baloney that a person’s character is so fatally flawed that only a psychiatrist can “fix” it. People have problems and almost all are temporary. Even those things that we think of as issues of character. I can give an example. I knew someone that I recognized is a chronic liar who was dishonest for the sake of being dishonest. I wondered why? Is it really true that people are born that way? I don’t think so. We see people for only a brief segment of their full lifespan, and although something may appear persistent, or, “chronic,” these are often, in fact, fleeting. Three weeks of depression doesn’t mean chronic or permanent, though of course it’s uncomfortable, often unbearable. So I had to rethink “chronic liar” and ask why this person became a liar. I realized, through observation, exactly why. This was iatrogenic, simply habitual, not a compulsion as it appeared. All due to psychiatry that had started at a young age for this person. I knew that if I said to this person, “Your problem is lying, and if you stop lying, all your difficulties will end.” This would sound too pushy. I am learning not to be pushy, and to hold back sometimes since folks can’t necessarily digest everything if it’s shoved into them. Psychiatry is King of Pushing and Shoving.

    Instead, I worked subtly, suggesting but trying to stay mum usually when I watched this person fail time and time again due to dishonesty. One day, poof! The message got across. I see now yet one more stronger and wiser person who will likely defy the psych prediction, and succeed.

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  • I don’t like speaking about boundaries. Those with the worst sense of boundaries simply never learned. They go after those who are physically handicapped, very young, female, impoverished, or in minority groups. People who are very young or adolescent are vulnerable anyway. Also, those who are medically compromised, which weakens the spirit, no fault of any of these groups for sure. I hesitate to speak of boundaries since it sounds like these boundary problems are a moral issue or one of strength of character. Many never had the chance to learn how to resist coercive practices.

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  • Good question, truth. You have to realize the generation. It was not called ED and she never called it that herself. She never considered it a “disorder.” By modern standards, she had anorexia and also binge eating, most probably precisely like what I had (which isn’t that common as most throw up) but neither term existed then. No one considered it disease nor disorder. Yes, it was a problem, and seen that way, and not discussed at all. My mom didn’t discuss her past with us. I didn’t realize parents had pasts! I honestly didn’t! Gradually I realized they were human, too, the same species as kids, but that took a long time to figure out. I didn’t want to believe a parent could ever make a mistake or be weak or inept in any way. I saw up on a shelf in our kitchen Dr. Spock’s Guide, the child-rearing book, was that his name? The one they all had. I opened that book one day and marveled at it. I never realized parents, this other species, had to learn child-rearing from some expert. My guess is that most kids in the 1960’s grew up with the same initial assumptions I had.

    Given the above, my mom only told me once about her ED. I believe I told this story in a chapter called “Yellow” in my published memoir. When I first got my periods, she showed me how to use pads (these with a belt and claw-like metal things) she explained that when she was young she “lost too much weight too fast” and that caused her to not have periods for two years. After that, there was no word about it for many years. I had never heard of ED and it didn’t register.

    I got mine at 22. After a couple of months of “therapy” I got worse and moved in with my parents. I went to day treatment which made it even worse. Yes, my mom tried to help me but by then, I was insisting that “this is the new way,” telling my parents I was going to listen to the therapists and not to them. Of course, therapy made me blame them and made me think of them as ignorant and old-fashioned.

    To be honest, her suggestions were excellent and had I listened, instead of assuming my parents didn’t know anything, I would have gotten better. She had developed her own nutritional approach to ED and this in fact is how I got better, too.

    Nowadays, ED has become a human rights issue just like “mental illness,” since psychiatry has taken over the field and turned it into a bogus treatment based on distrust, coercion, force, and constant threats. It doesn’t have to be that way and shouldn’t. This is why “recovery” rates are so low for ED.

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  • I can tell you one thing I learned from my mom. Never be late! Why? My mom had a lot of trouble being on time. I was embarrassed about it when i was a kid. She never got me anywhere on time. When I left home, I swung in the opposite direction. Two of the three of us ended up prompt. Not obsessively so, but we don’t like the inconvenience nor to inconvenience anyone else.

    Many years later, I put two and two together and figured out one of the many reasons my mom struggled with this. Apparently, the “family secret” of her past eating disorder was so well-kept that my own brothers didn’t really know, or didn’t know the seriousness of it. As I figure, she recovered on her own in 1942, and my guess is that by 1944 she was totally fine. However, I knew that if she didn’t eat, she’d get loopy, spaced-out, confused, and sort of “high” the way those of us with restrictive (anorexic) tendencies tend to get. Apparently she had a seriously scary thing happen to her while driving, both before we were born and then, later, when our car flipped over (none of us were injured). After that, no matter what, she wouldn’t drive unless she’d eaten. Not only that, she’d take care to prepare herself a full meal and sit down and eat. When I was a child, not understanding, I’d get so impatient. “Why, Mom? Can’t you do that later?” She did this even if it meant being very late. She didn’t want to risk the safety of us kids should she drive on an empty stomach. We kids never learned to appreciate this, but I sure did when I realized my eating disorder (tendency to get very high if starving) was inherited, not taught by bad mothering, and surely all the mother-blaming was stupidity on the part of the therapists.

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  • I believe it was both, Stephen. To this day, I don’t know if this harm occurred at the facility where we were housed or at another facility and then she was transferred to where we met. At the time, I challenged the facility, knowing her medical condition, and they finally admitted she had the condition in question. This is something almost always treatment-induced. The fact that the personnel involved were quite on the defensive, first telling me, ‘That’s your disorder speaking,” but then, when clearly the facts were indisputable, they conceded. Then they claimed to be gods that were going to save her, and demanded that I not question what they were doing. I was scared! Sometimes, I’d walk past her bed (mine being by the window) and get scared she wasn’t breathing! Please don’t die! Please! I discharged myself because of that and other reasons. I was so pissed. I did put up a statement online but it wasn’t something easily accessed. About six months later, she friended me on Facebook. We rarely had any interaction. We were friendly with each other, never any altercation. Suddenly, I found that I was no only unfriended, but blocked by her. I’d say within a year and a half later, she was dead and no one was talking. I believe her heart was so physically damaged and weakened that her will to survive was barely there during that year and a half. One of the known signs is an uncanny apathy that resembles depression. Anyway, when I noticed she wasn’t on Facebook (while I was blocked) I feared she was dead. I tried to look her up any way I could. Finally, I heard she had just died. To my surprise, no one knew what I knew. Someone had something big to hide.

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  • This essay is wonderfully written and I hope will serve as an eye-opener for many. I love how you explained that when you voiced opposition to drugging in front of the psychiatrist, he claimed you yourself were crazy! Leave it to the profession to turn tables like that.

    One of my best friends growing up was on the spectrum. She was mainstreamed and successfully graduated high school during the same year I did. I had no clue she was autistic. We were not told. It was the 1960”s and 70’s. She was seen as “different” but no one knew for sure what it was. We met up later in life. We identified with each other well since we’d both been subject to teasing in the public schools. Her parents started her in elementary school two years later than usual, I’d say wisely. I had been started early, skipping kindergarten. The only problem for me was that I was already short for my height and being younger meant I was even shorter! And wore glasses at a young age, none of that being my choice nor anything to do with behavior. “Amy” (not her real name) was taller, “developed” earlier than other girls in our grade, but was behind in her verbal ability. She excelled at all forms of visual art. For a while, we spent much time doing art together, even though I didn’t want to admit I wasn’t very good at it.

    I have a rather distinct memory of drawing a likeness of Lucy Van Pelt (from Peanuts) and showing it to my sixth grade teacher. My teacher exclaimed, “I know only one other student who can draw that well: Amy!” I don’t recall anyone else in the room at the time, which was a good thing! I was embarrassed and fled out of there as soon as I could. While the drawing was mine, I’d copied it by sight from one Amy had done.

    I’ve always wondered about the stereotype that those on the spectrum have of “idiot savant.” Although I am not on the spectrum, I, too, have a few such odd talents for which I was never able to find a practical use. These activities kept me amused, I suppose, and perhaps are enriching to the mind.

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  • Boans, I agree, same in the States. I once wrote a private email to a higherup about discrimination in my own church. Next thing you knew, a cop and two church higherups came ramming on my door accusing me of planning to murder the church minister. I couldn’t believe my ears. Was this some comical scene that I myself had written now playing itself out? Was I in Wonderland? I said, “I don’t know if I should laugh or cry.” I was naive and had no clue, at that moment, that the last thing you should do is to reach into your pockets. I did so, turning them inside-out to “prove” I had no weapons. Ironically, I’d just come home from my first Justina protest in Boston and was FREEZING, dehydrated, and weak. I was still recovering from severe anorexia and acute renal failure. I am only five foot one. By default they all towered over me, especially the man from church. They shook all over, as if they were terrified I’d “shoot them all.” I’m sure if I really did have a gun and shot it, I’d have missed my target and I would have fallen over in the process. They also said they were not telling the church congregation about this “visit.” Then, they said I was welcome back at church anytime but only if I agreed “not to write.” I concluded that what I had written to the higherup got back to the church and that my email made a large impact, possibly threatening the minister’s job.

    BTW, I mentioned by name several in the church that I felt were clearly being subject to discrimination due to diagnosis. I mentioned incidents I’d witnessed. Cut and dry. One of these people was the late Rachel Klein. I don’t know how she died but I got my ideas. Was discrimination a factor? You bet. She died ten days after I left the USA. No one’s talking.

    I am not worried about my family members being targeted, Boans. The only one is my dog and we are safely far away.

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  • I lost two hospital roommates, wrongful deaths. One was very very very covered up, as it was all the hospital’s fault. I knew about this and I found out later, no one else knew. The family wasn’t talking at all, and I am wondering if a gag order was put on them. In fact, they weren’t happy that I spoke up, what little I said. I am between a rock and a hard place on this one, to respect the family’s wishes or to assume they’re under court order and in fact want this story out. Plus, lately I have decided that the deceased’s wishes are important. They should not live or die in vain.

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  • I was on Zyprexa in 1997, but taken off after about 2 or 3 doses. The reason was that it caused extreme lethargy and binge eating.

    I was almost forced back on it in 2013. I told them I’d been on it before and they said I was lying. I said forcing me back onto it would lead to suicide because of binge eating. I said also that extreme weight gain would also cause me to suicide since I refuse to live through that again. By extreme weight gain I don’t mean ten or 20 pounds. My weight doubled from Seroquel and I couldn’t even walk anymore. I had to use a wheelchair for three months. I shudder remembering what life was like back then. Binge eating is so dangerous and causes suicide, car accidents, financial ruin, marriage breakup, and medically, heart attacks and various ruptures in the digestive system. Stomach rupture usually isn’t detected unless there’s an autopsy. It usually kills within minutes. Appears to be a heart attack and often is documented as such. So no way can statistics be accurate on the frequency of this occurring.

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  • That’s what you do when you take a computer in to be repaired. You bring it in, the guy looks at it and tell you what the thinks is wrong. he gives you an estimate. You leave the laptop at the shop. He calls you and says he’s done. Then, when you get to the shop, he shows you what he did and says, “I found out what part is faulty and replaced it.” Then, you get an itemized bill. When you get it home, if you find you have questions or things aren’t right, he makes good on it. Often the work is guaranteed for 30 days or longer.

    I know people aren’t laptops, but good business practice goes a long way.

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  • My experience also. The first thing that happened was that the therapists turned me against my mother. That took some 35 years to undo. My poor mother was not only blamed, she was belittled, as was my dad. They poked fun at him when he wanted to take notes at a family meeting. He used pencil and a tiny spiral-bound notebook he always kept in his pocket. I now know both parents were excellent role models, and the therapists were flat out wrong. My bro bought into it and ended up quite hostile toward our mom. This is how you wreck a perfectly okay family. That took years off her life, as far as I can tell.

    Get this: My mom recovered from her ED entirely on her own at age 16. I am in total awe since I know how hard it is. Hers was the same as mine. Amazing.

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  • Elephants are the #1 experts on what it’s like to be an elephant.

    I agree, many therapists oversell their particular brand of therapy as THE answer, Gift From Heaven that Saves Humankind from Disaster. If it’s not the therapist him/herself, it’s his/her method. Anyone who sells a product or service marketing it as The One and Only is ripping off customers. To be distinguished from The Only One in Town, which is a monopoly leading to jacked-up prices and jacked-up competence to treat anyone and anything since folks don’t have much choice. The one clinic. The one clinic that takes public insurance, the hospital that has bought up all the local hospitals (like Harvard and Mass General), etc. I guess according to psychiatry and Big Pharma, the only answer is profit-maker pill of the day. For shock docs, shock is the end-all. For the patient, that may as well be the end. But we’ll stop it, won’t we?

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  • You are absolutely right. I just don’t like studies. Period. I believe what I witness myself. And if someone else tells me something, and it sounds reasonable, I believe it unless I have a reason to doubt. If the person is very drunk I might take that into consideration.

    Please stop repeating my incidents of “black and white thinking.” I find this insulting since it’s a shrink term, one they use in an extremely demeaning manner. By all means, I wasn’t that way before shrinkage. I wasn’t much different from any other music student. Through their abuse, they trained me well. Us and them. They are superior. They often said so. You know, I can’t just “get over it” instantly. I know intellectually that their claims weren’t valid, they were not superior, but over three decades of black and white brainwashing isn’t easy to shake off and I’m working on it. I don’t need the insults if you don’t mind.

    I don’t understand why people assume we get over all this trauma instantly and then the hard part is the drug withdrawal.

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  • 9, Round here, if any guy claimed to be John the Baptist, and the cops were driving past, they might either join him for some vino and hanging out or a thermos of mate, or ask if he wants a ride back to his casa. They’d make sure he had his keys and got in okay, which is the cordial thing to do when giving a person a ride home. Or they would just drive by, shrugging, especially if fútbol is on.

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  • Know what I remember of being a baby? I saw all blurry. Actually, it was all blurry till I got glasses at 7. Before that, I had no clue the world wasn’t that way. I had no clue what it would be like as an adult who had to do something other than crawl. How would I see the ground from up that high? I figured no one could. So when I saw my parents’ faces, their noses were more in focus than anything else, being closer to me. I saw my dad’s nose and his glasses. I saw his ear once, probably more than once. There was no such thing as baby brothers. Not yet. In fact, I rather enjoyed, for a brief time, being the Center of the Universe. Mine. When did it dawn on me that there were other points of view? Children just like me? That my parents were human beings who had feelings? By nursery school, probably. I rationalized my jealousy of my new baby brothers by playing with them and deciding I owned them. Like they were little blonde boy dolls. The two of them, one first, then the other, put me in my place. No, we’re people too. After that, the three of us were cool, because we were so different from each other.

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  • BPD, Over thirty years of observing on the wards is more “training” than some psychiatrists have. My own observations weren’t tainted by psychiatry textbooks, thankfully. Secondly, the study you cite uses self-reporting. How many can recall infancy? I do, but most people don’t. Some cannot recall before age 10.

    Secondly, I consider myself to have ended up “okay,” too. I would have gotten over my eating disorder on my own had I not made a terrible decision in 1981. How was I to know? What wasn’t okay was what shrinkage did. Hindsight is awesome.

    Julie

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  • I respect what you are saying, Dr. Berezon, but listen to what the others are saying. I lived with an eating disorder (anorexia and binge eating both) for three and a half decades, so I met many patients and their families over those years and had plenty of chance to observe. Mothers of that population ran the gamut, from more flawed to less flawed and in the middle. Perhaps “babying” and “overprotectiveness” ran slightly higher than the norm, but by all means, “bad mother” was simply not a universal truth. Even if you say it happened in infancy.

    Same went for any other diagnosis I saw on the wards. Sexual abuse victims were disproportionately high. Almost all who had been abused were abused by their fathers or some other male, often in the bio family but sometimes, a spouse or in-law, or coach at school. These sufferers described happy childhoods until the abuse, which may have happened at five or at 25 or even later. Many were my hospital roommates, and some became good friends.

    I was not abused by my parents. It came from an outsider, a non-relative, in my teens. I don’t blame my parents for failing to step in. No, the school should have, since that’s where it was visible.

    Those “bad mother” theories also don’t explain why the majority of children of obviously bad mothers end up okay, though you didn’t say your theory’s converse was true.

    I can’t see how psychiatry can continue at all, not unless the DSM is abolished. This book has no validity. I can’t see psychiatry continuing in any humane fashion so long as it’s about “what’s wrong with you,” whether we might think it all originates with mothering or not. Frankly, I find the overfocus on “bad mother” to be rather misogynist. Psychiatrists that remain should help people get off the drugs that those in their profession irresponsibly prescribed. We seem to have a shortage of these. Many of the damages most likely should be treated by neuros, endocrinologists, cardiologists, physical therapists, herbalists, ophthalmologists, acupuncturists, etc.

    We are lacking in people helping out with trauma from psych abuse. Many “trauma experts” don’t even acknowledge that this trauma exists, and some worsen or even cause trauma. Much illness is produced by the MH System, including all sorts of negative behaviors. If they are to do any form of PSYCHOtherapy that is helpful, it’s not covered by insurance. I don’t think therapists, whatever their degrees, should use the DSM either, shouldn’t be there to marginalize us by telling us “what’s wrong with you,” but they do, sadly, since it’s called “healthcare” and insurance requires a billing number. “What’s wrong” translates to commodity. That’s the problem.

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  • Laura, I have read this before and have enjoyed reading it again. My own childhood wasn’t much different except I sucked at sports, but loved the outdoors as you did, and also was a wannabe tomboy. I saw wannabe since my friend down the street was a far better one. I was lucky to be in a very good public school system in Massachusetts. I know this had to do with unfair funding, excesses given to a community already affluent enough. Still, many of the instructors we had were exceptionally good. We were told ahead of time that adolescence was supposed to be stormy and that we’d get pimples and not to pick them. An older girl was extremely helpful and also acted as guide for me during those years. I told her I had a crush on a teacher, for instance, and she said that was okay and part of growing up. We learned the German words Freud used to express the normal stormy adolescence. We learned that due to body changes, we would be likely to experiment with drugs (such as LSD, in the day) no matter how much warning we heard from our elders. I so wish that the generations that came later, such as yours, were told the same thing, that these feelings of insecurity, fear, doubt, these are all part of growing up, and they don’t mean you’re sick. Other cultures honor adolescence with wonderful rituals such as the Vision Quest and various initiation rites. In the Judeo-Christian traditions we have Bar Mitzvah’s and something they do at 16 but I don’t know what that is. Have these sacred things lost their meaning? Have we flattened out and narrowed what “normal” is supposed to be? Where are those pouty kids with pimples who always do the exact opposite of what “adults” advise? Would Woodstock even happen now? This was honored, memorialized, treasured, filled with wonderful young people, who were growing just like the rest of us. Time to bring it all back.

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  • Sandy, that sounds like the version of mental illness I used to see in some movies. Dangerousness. I have known many DIAGNOSED schizophrenics. This was my own diagnosis for many years. Looking back, not one “schizophrenic” was at all violent. Accusations of dangerousness or “future dangerousness” are so often done for convenience, as an excuse to take kids away, as an excuse to force-drug, or as an excuse to incarcerate. Never mind that forced “hospitalization” means milking Medicaid. Much is done as retaliation, and most of these accusations have no basis in reality. Mostly, we were nonviolent due to apathy. We were either depressed or so drugged that we didn’t have any chance of meaningful and productive lives. We watched TV all day and smoked. Those I knew, and still know, who may have been thought of as “psychotic,” such as voice-hearers, who were lucky enough to bypass psychiatry entirely ended up living incredibly productive and amazing lives. None of these people ever had to view the world from the point of view of “patient,” nor ever lived as a diagnosed person, which clearly freed them up to do extraordinary things.

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  • I love this article. The “othering” I have seen all throughout society on many levels. For instance, in the church I attended the members prided themselves on their monetary donations to various charities, most of them funding “those people” who lived far away. Yet they refused to associate and befriend those members who were poor or otherwise marginalized. What I then found was that their claim of being “welcoming” only applied to the few. If they had been truly welcoming I would have been seen as human instead of some skinny subhuman.

    I don’t know what to do about the occasional “othering” here on MIA. I don’t think we should be “us and theming” here. But this does happen. I am still dismayed at the number of published articles by people with letters after their names. I guess that subconsciously prompted me to add my own letters, even though my degree is not in the privileged sciences, but in creative writing. At the same time, we need to recognize that the “us and them” attitude has been drilled into patients for so long that it’s one of the hardest parts of the brainwashing to shake. Many of us are very angry, and that needs to be honored and not seen as disorder, but of course understandable. From personal experience I know anger should be seen the same as grief. Allow us to be as angry as we need to be for as long as we need to be. Rushing forgiveness won’t work. To say, “Just get over it and forgive,” is in fact forcing ideas on a person. This isn’t a moral issue nor an issue of quality of character. Or “ego.”

    On units, I first noticed the attitude of “subhuman” when I observed the way staff treated those patients who came from abroad and did not know English. These patients were ignored, as if they had no feelings or that they weren’t quite human. This also happened to elderly people who were hard of hearing. They were assumed to have low intelligence and they “didn’t matter.” To some extent this also happened when a person had been imprisoned in a hurry and had not had time to grab her reading glasses. Unable to read handouts in groups, she, too, was “other.” I was shocked to see just how long it took for the administration to hire or bring in a translator. These patients spent, I’d say on average, an extra month in the hospital that was completely unnecessary. Apparently a woman once showed up who mixed up “breast” with “chest” due to knowing very little English, and that took the staff, who claimed to be insightful and “strong ego,” a full week to catch on.

    Overall, we patients understood each other much better than the staff understood us. We had no notion of superiority nor were we deluded into thinking we were morally superior. We accepted each other. Maybe there was something to that, eh?

    One of the worst lies ever told to me I heard in 1981. Someone asked one of the day treatment staff what the difference was between staff and patient. The staff person said, “The only difference is that the staff have their act together. Patients do not.” This was hardly true. The difference was that staff were paid, carried keys, and retained their rights.

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  • I studied the life of two men who were known for their huge appetites. These were both such oddities at the time that all kinds of mythologies were passed around regarding their voracious eating habits. One was a Frenchman the the other I cannot recall. These men were both studied extensively. One was imprisoned at one point and was said to have eating live rats and cats, but of course that could have been a rumor. The reason the lives of these two men interested me is that I myself have suffered from horrific binge eating (quantity-wise, that physically disabled me to such an extent that I was okay with going on disability. I also from pica, for which I was deeply ashamed. This happened to me as an adult, not a toddler, and this wasn’t related to a pregnancy. So I was curious as to what conclusions had been drawn regarding these men who must truly have suffered (I should know!). As it turned out, they were saying one may have had a TBI to the amygdala. I have also learned that there is no “appetite center” to the brain as originally thought. There is indeed an appetite center but it isn’t at one specific place. Meaning they just don’t know. If the folktales about them were true it does indeed sound like TBI had caused it, given the extremes to which they ate.

    Meanwhile, I have studied binge eating extensively, since I was determined to solve it. Of course, mental health did nothing to help me whatsoever, but taught me that I had to follow their orders and that they knew what was best for me (baloney!). The only reliable way to do this was through extensive self-experimentation. I could only do this far, far away from psych and their diagnoses. I concluded that no matter what weight a person is at, most likely the behavior is a result of malnutrition. Most often, crash dieting precedes binge eating, and the behavior is a result of the severe malnutrition that has developed from dieting. Another thing that is never considered is that some people have increased need beyond the norm for certain nutrients. This is often hereditary. In the care of eating disorders it’s so rare to question a patient about food preference, and focus on the negative behaviors only. Rarely do the professionals take into account family history and cultural or religious significance of various foods. They’ll only ask if anyone has ever committed suicide or had “mental illness” or alcoholism. I’ve even seen them give foods the patient is allergic to that are ingredients in “tube feed,” or insert a latex tube into a patient who is known to have latex allergy. They almost always completely miss the boat. I do not see “eating disorder” as a “mental illness” but a nutritional difference. Any “mental illness” is learned in care or secondary to bad eating habits. Conversely, it’s possible to develop terrible eating habits from being in ED “care.” I have known several folks who were pushed into this “care” when in fact no one was listening to their logical explanation for unusual thinness. It’s completely ass-backwards. I am determined to change how things are done. As long-term sufferer I do have expertise because I have lived it.

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  • The only mental trouble I got now was acquired in psychiatry. I wasn’t angry and didn’t grow up with angry parents, they didn’t abuse me. I work so hard to unbrainwash myself right now. I’ve been reading up on recovering from religious cults. I can tell you this reading has been very helpful to me. There are so many parallels. I have my section of my book written but I am still writing some of the other parts that show the resemblance to the religious cult I was in.

    When I become a coach (btw, coaching does not use diagnosis and it’s considered unethical to diagnose) I want to help people understand that while change is needed, recovery is not a measure of how well you comply, nor does it mean eating perfectly from some standardized meal plan that someone else is demanding of you.

    Regarding burning the DSM, I got another idea. Recycle! After all, it’s not nice to make pollution. “This supermarket circular was made of recycled psycobabble.” Someday I hope all the tortures of psychiatry will be put into a museum because they don’t do them anymore (someday, right?). Put the museum on the grounds of a closed-down mental prison. It would be an experience like going to the Holocaust Museum. Most leave in tears.

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  • I would want to protest outside of APA and say, “NO psychiatry!” And hope psychiatrists, at any speed, do penance for their wrongs, meaning pay up AND do charitable work for human rights, or help people get off drugs who are ready to get off and help make the world a better place. Kindness and understanding, instead of diagnosing. Toss the DSM out (how many copies did it sell, anyway?). I personally would enjoy burning the DSM more than burning a bra. The only effective therapy is that which does not use psych diagnosis. If they want to do behavior mod, then help people undo the brainwashing. I think that’s harder than getting off drugs.

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  • Boans I have been in that situation. No evaluation, just put ’em in. Or find some obscure reason, such as forgetting to clip off a hangnail, as “unable to care for self” and asking for nail clippers “danger to self.” That’s not an actual example (used for the sake of humor) but I have seen similar reasoning, only it’s not all that funny when you find you can’t get out. I feel for you folks in Australia. I hear it’s about the worst in the world for cruelty and for the power of the Shrink Regime.

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  • Corinna, I went cold turkey off both antipsychotics at once. I was on three for a few years along with a few other drugs. I stopped 3mgs of Risperdone and 20 mgs of Abilify. I didn’t know anything about withdrawal. Sometimes I wonder if the withdrawal is made worse by the placebo effect. No, I’m not saying “it’s all in your head,” but if you tell people “it’s gonna suck,” then surely, it’ll suck worse. I had no clue. I got put into an ER on a hold and they were such inattentive they completely forgot to give me my pills. Finally, I was scared I’d have a seizure from stopping the anticonvulsants, so I thought I better speak up and remind them. They gave me a “PRN” of Lamictal. Um, huh? Well, I was out. I decided the heck with the Risperdal and Abilify. I was fine.

    However, a long time ago, a very long time ago, when I took an overdose the doc said, “I think you don’t need meds after all,” and he didn’t put me back on. I had racing thoughts from Thorazine withdrawal. But he thought I was “psychotic” and “needed” the drug. Oddly, I wasn’t psychotic, and never was. I never understood why they were so worried about “symptoms coming back” when there were no symptoms to begin with, none that required a “cocktail” of seven pills. Oddly, I knew that all along, in the back of my head.

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  • How much can they really tell in those brain scans? I was told over and over I had a “normal brain.” They didn’t see any damage, and whatever was found after ECT I’m sure they wouldn’t have admitted to me. One neuro saw seizures. I got diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy, which was later discredited because they told me the seizures were a minor temporary drug effect. Sadly, I spent years with a shrink who went on and on about “the personality of someone with TLE….” Crap. Just stay away from those diagnosers.

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  • Sandra, you pose an interesting question that leads me to ask, “If psychiatry were abolished, then what are we going to do with these unemployed people who worked for that, er, industrial complex?” Why don’t you all’s go on disability. Don’t worry, the government will take good care of you. I think anyone can live on $850 a month, besides, you get your healthcare for free and you mooch off of taxpayers. If you don’t like it, just hop over to the local jail for a while. Think of that: Nice, cozy padded rooms. You’ll even be watched all the time, so you won’t be lonely.

    No, seriously, the DSM has got to go. As for the drugs, choice choice choice. Why not let the real drug pushers sell them on the street? That way, if you feel depressed, you have a choice. Eat well and exercise and change what’s not working, or go see a pusher. Or how about vending machines. We could pass out cell phones or tablets to all households, and if they really want a drug, they can look it up, see for themselves what it does and what the dosing and side effects are, and go buy it.

    Here in Uruguay, you can buy your drugs without a prescription. Who can afford to go to a doctor here? If you know you need a drug, you go out and get it. They don’t cost that much, but I don’t know about psych drugs. I’ll look that one up. I have a price list. People aren’t stupid. I was way too shy to point out to various shrinks, “You know, I think I need less of this and maybe try this other one instead.” I kept those thoughts to myself even though I went for years too shy to ask for something I was convinced would really help me. I didn’t want to tell the shrinks that I know my body. I know what I need better than they do, because it’s my body. I’m smart enough to look up these drugs and know what I want if I have a need. In fact, if I had developed my eating disorder a few years ago, instead of in 1980, I could have gone online, done a bunch of research, and solved it in a month or two using the nutritional method I have devised, and never given a thought to drugs or therapy.

    That said, why the “disease approach”? Why not a happy healthy and wise approach? In grad school, we learned that the best way to teach writing is not to point out what’s wrong, but what’s working well. Then, we encourage the student to do more of what works. We say, “This writing is effective” or “This speaks to me,” and then, we state why, if appropriate, and point out other instances where the same brilliance really shines, and ask the student to produce more or expand on all that wonderful writing. While we may “correct,” this is only to guide or suggest, never to criticize or demean.

    As for drugs, well, I learned around 1970 when I had drug education in junior high that drugs were a bad idea. Just like smoking. We were warned of the dangers. We were told to say no.

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  • B, I think it was Anne Lamott who said something like, “If you don’t like it that a writer put you in her book, you shouldn’t have acted like that.” I should go find the quote. I didn’t name names in my book that’s out, but my next one won’t spare them. Actually, my published book was written before my turnaround. It is not pro nor anti anything. It’s only a story. A very good one, and I’m proud of it.

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  • B, I went to empowerment centers, I tried out three. Not one of them was doing anything even close to political activism. Two of them looked and smelled like day treatment. No letters to congressmen, no petitions, no marching in the streets, no activism whatsover. Know what they did? Sat around and had “groups.” Relaxation group, support group, crafts, etc. I wondered what the heck they were calling themselves empowerment centers for. It looked like babysitting to me.

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  • Psychiatry in the 1980’s: Talk about your childhood.
    Psychiatry in the 1990’s: You are unstable.
    Psychiatry in the 2000’s: We can silence your child, and your inner child.
    Psychiatry now: “Do you feel like killing anyone? How many guns do you own?” (with one hand on the pen writing the prescription, the other on the panic button under the desk that will quickly alert Security as soon the subhuman brute attacks).

    In 2003, I finished up my undergraduate studies with a fast-paced and entertaining class in American Government and Politics. Our instructor had worked many years as an attorney. This was mostly a class in Constitutional Law. This instructor had observed the behavior of policemen over many years while working as an attorney. One day, with great sadness, he stated that his own cousin had become a cop. He said he watched his beloved cousin’s personality change as soon as the kid began to carry a gun. I took great interest in this statement, for what it was worth.

    I went home that day thinking about this man’s words. I have never touched a gun but I have seen them in photos and on TV. We writers sometimes must research details about guns if we write novels that involve gun use. I have always been amused at the resemblance between a gun and the human penis. I sometimes refer to guns as penis-extenders.

    Friends of mine have felt that it was necessary to own a gun for self-defense. Not one of them ever used their guns for that purpose. My brother hunts and owns a rifle or two. He shoots a deer once or twice a year and freezes the meat for his family. But when I have been asked about guns, I tell people I have no need for one. I have a dog who loves me.

    To ask a patient if he/she feels like killing is insulting. Distrust should not be the basis of helping a person who is suffering. These doctors get paid and praised for “protecting the public.” Is that logical?

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  • So now they figured that out? I began to think of pregnancy before I got to the paragraph that mentioned it. When I had dental surgery the surgeon was visibly nervous speaking to me of the risks and also while pulling the teeth, He said he was afraid to use general anesthesia because I was on meds and because I was underweight. He said that local anesthesia was far safer. I told him I didn’t mind being awake for it. I also recall when I had my tubest tied, which is minor day surgery, I was told to stop my meds temporarily before the surgery, except for the anticonvulsants since the anesthesiologist feared that stopping too fast would give me a seizure. Remembering this, I began to wonder about the use of anesthesia when people are having shock. They stop the anticonvulsants so the person will have a seizure. But they put the person under while the person is still on antipsychotics and most likely the rest of the shebang. When I had shock I was more underweight than when I had the dental surgery. Many people are already suffering complicated medical issues when they are put under and then, shocked. I ask myself now, how much of a risk is that? How could they, in good conscious, take a risk with a human life? How could they even think to give psych meds to an elderly person who, at any point, could be medically compromised and require emergency surgery? And yet, this drugging is routine, considered to be lifeSAVING. Would these prescribers be willing to take a risk like that with their own kids, with their spouses, with their beloved family pets? Go talk to a vet, none will not do such a thing to an animal.

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  • So, okay, I hear this now. Money is power. Those with money get a voice. I know this to be true, since most books that sell well are written by people who have hired publicists or who have their rich buddies buy multiple copies of the book. Selling a book has little to do with the book’s merit. It’s all about knowing rich people who can bribe bookstores and who can get you reading slots in the big venues. It’s about having parents who sell you. It’s about having husbands who are filmmakers and decide to make your book into a movie. It’s about having an “in” with the big media. That means money. I guess therapy is effective if and only if you have tons of money. My own family was upper middle class, mind you. My parent paid $10,000 for my first day treatment program and over the years, likely a million. I was horrendously harmed by McLean. Isn’t that one of the greatest mental hospitals in the world? A friend of mine who might very well be reading this is currently working on collecting McLean abuse stories. Yes, it’s that common there, you just don’t hear about it often since the abused lose their voice. You only hear about how wonderful they are. And I know many who were locked up there over six months. I went to their day programs, where we were treated like toddlers. When i complained, they tried to send me to State. My friend Diane was psychiatrized at the Hartford Institute, for which her family paid a fortune. She stayed two years. That caused her to lose custody of her child. She’s dead now. Funny thing one day Diane said to me, “Don’t ever let yourself end up in the hands of social workers.” Now they are uncovering that David Foster Wallace had lengthy contact with the MH world and also addiction “treatment.” He already had earned his MFA, the same writing degree I earned, too, before he went in. He felt like he was being treated like a first-grader. For sure, I can relate. I, too, was insulted by the handouts, the groups, the kiddie games, and being pushed into working a dead-end, minimum wage job until someone finally figured out he was a scholar. He’s dead now, too.

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  • Folks, this is just another shining example of a mental health professional taking an analogy literally. I am amazed that in my past, mental health professionals claimed I was unable to think conceptually, unable to process, unable to think abstractly. Years later, I found that if I used abstract language in “sessions,” I was taken literally. I found this insulting. Did they not study literature to know what metaphor is? Apparently not. That’s what art is. Representation of life, as the artist sees it. All great political speeches contained metaphors and comparisons that enabled the listening public to more fully understand what the speaker was saying. Interesting, too, that the diabetes/mental illness/lithium/insulin comparison doesn’t even hold water (hold water also being a metaphor). And they know it, too. While psychiatry criticizes our inept thinking, it seems that on a whole, the profession doesn’t even hear us when we make such abstractions. I myself invented the prostitute analogy out of my own head, the day I realized I had no one to talk to and if I ever wanted a human relationship, I’d have to resort to paying some person in an office, ready and waiting for some sucker like me.

    As for lack of statistical evidence of the instances of therapy abuse, I know that if a person seeks therapy after abuse, the next therapist says, right on cue, “It was a bad match.” They also tell the patient to “Be present,” meaning to forget the past. They will insist that the anger needs medicating. It’s now the patient’s disorder, the patient’s crime that such atrocity took place. Then, when that doesn’t fail, out comes the paranoia card. If the patient has enough guts to contact the state human rights agency, that agency’s role is not to protect, but to stall any real lawsuit until the statute of limitations is over. If then, the patient has any energy left, he or she might have a tough time getting a real lawyer to take him/her seriously. If ever the case makes it to court and it is even heard, more often than not, the judge places a gag order on the accusers. In brief, if ever abused in therapy, you can expect silencing. I was forced-drugged because I refused to shut up about abuse. I was called crazy, delusional, or at least oversensitive. I was told “Human rights are trivial.” MGH told its patients to stay away from me and not read anything I write because I am “against recovery.” Yeah, almost like a representation of the Devil. I was repeatedly threatened and told I had to stop writing. I saw even worse times coming. If I had not left the USA to a safe place, I wouldn’t have told you all the Maria story, and all the other stories I tell, the funny, the sad, the infuriating, the scary, the joyful, the uplifting, all these stories that are who I am. I can only safely tell them, without reserve, without fear of retaliation because I have done this drastic relocation. If I were in USA, I can assure you, they’d have locked me up by now, or tormented and terrorized me, disregarding all laws, until I was dead. I am alive. I love saying “Nyah nyah.” I’ll keep retelling them, too, until I am heard, believed, acknowledged as human, and honored simply for that.

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  • Those scales aren’t all that valid. I remember filling one out (I did this regularly and dutifully) which was read by computer so I had to fill in those circles real good. When it was read back to me the counselor said, “This says you have panic attacks. But that’s not true of you.” turned out that my answer to one question, “Do you have cold hands and cold feet,” had tripped off an alert. Hmm… It was winter and I am skinny. The therapist had to go back to her supervisor and explain that the test had come back wrong and not to worry. So much for that.

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  • Want my credentials, too? I was incarcerated over 50 times in both private facilities and community hospitals. I attended four or five day treatment programs. One I spent over three years in. My longest hospitalization was over two months. I dutifully attended my therapy sessions and was praised for compliance. I was rarely late. I had the pills memorized, the doses and what dates I started and stopped them. I dutifully kept symptom charts and was praised for how cleverly I used graph paper and colored pencils. For the first two decades I was never sectioned. I went willingly. While in those places you bet I saw abuses. I figured it was necessary treatment and that I had no rights. I came from an upper middle class family and both parents had master’s degrees. My dad had two master’s degrees. Because therapists lied to my family, I have no family left and am sitting here wondering what to do with no money no voice no credibility.

    I no longer buy into the argument that I was the unlucky exception. When they can take money from you, you get better care. As spoiled rich kid I had it good. I thought therapy and all those facilities were great. I had no idea why others were complaining. Some three decades later and broke, I had seen plenty enough. Facilities where I was kept included McLean, Massachusetts General, Brattleboro Retreat, a state hospital, Gould Farm, and more. I still managed to earn my bachelor of fine arts degree and MFA even though the social workers said I didn’t belong in academia. They begged me to quit. They even claimed they knew me better than I knew myself. Of all the professions out there, for sure a writer of memoir knows herself better than anyone else does. It is necessary for the work I do. I am not a statistician nor political scientist. In fact all I need is to be myself. That is my credential.

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  • I can speak to the cult survivor analogy. I was in a cult once. I was in the Moonies. The System uses the exact same brainwashing techniques that the Moonies used. As an ex-cult member, for the first year, I was very confused and lost. I had many questions about religion. I “tried out” many religions to find one that was “just right.” I was disappointed. I almost went back to the Moonies. Why? I found love there, but to keep the cult’s love, I had to be a slave to it. I couldn’t have both.

    Later, the MH System provides a walled ghetto for people, real or figurative, where yes, there’s love. For a price. You give your life. All sorts of threats will follow you if you try to leave. “You’ll be unstable!” “You can’t live without us!” “You can’t manage your life.” “You’ll only come running back.” “You’ll fail without us.” “You can’t do that without our permission!” “You’re a danger to yourself and others.”

    Anyone running from them right now, keep running. Don’t look back.

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  • Margie, to some of us, therapy is, or was, prostitution. For some of us, the therapy served to end our outside relationships and then we had none. So where do you go to bounce something off of someone. It’s a sad day indeed when you realize there’s no one out there except the ones you pay. Mostly, it’s not even the person’s doing, but societal prejudice and ignorance. Another thing I see happening is when a person goes to therapy, others back away saying, “Don’t talk to me about it, talk to your therapist.’ I’ve even heard people say, “He’s in therapy now, so I’m off the hook and don’t have to talk to him anymore.” No, I don’t have statistical data on this and I don’t need it to prove that this was my experience. I don’t want to be discredited just because I don’t cite studies.

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  • Dear BPD, You have to realize that those of us who have been harmed were also deprived of a voice. We cannot sue and if we win, we are forced into silence. Those of us who have been abused by therapists have also been discredited by them.

    If a car repair person does a lousy job, and the customer speaks out and complains or tells his buddies, the car repair person can’t say, “Well, you know those Buick drivers can’t be trusted, they’re all deranged.” However, a therapist can quickly discredit a patient, “She’s bipolar.” Then what? That patient has been effectively silenced.

    So yes, the studies very well could be flawed. They didn’t poll dead people. Their definition of “recovery” might mean “compliance” or might mean “not in the hospital.” Actually, there were times I wanted to be in hospital just to get away from an outpatient therapist.

    Julie

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  • Well I disagree with the statement, “There are good and bad people.” To me, that is black and white thinking. People are flawed, but I have not met a truly bad person. There are people who are dishonest, there are those who have values I disagree with, there are those that are discriminatory. But intrinsically bad, no. Just misinformed. Or brainwashed or drunk. Or being abused. In fact, that question came up a while back about a “bad mother” who harmed her child. The media was all over her. But I believe she was being abused and didn’t in fact commit this crime, but took credit for the crime to protect the abuser.

    When I see bad therapy, I ask, who are the administrators running the clinic? I recall one therapist who took me on simply because she heard I show up. I found out she had no interest in helping me and had no knowledge of my challenges. I found out the agency was “fee for service” meaning she wasn’t on salary but was paid per patient that showed up. A salaried one is in similar boat because if there are too many no-shows the agency puts the pressure on to “get one’s numbers up.” It was like an assembly line. I had one change my dx saying she had to do that to get paid. It all sounded like a crooked racket to me.

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  • Thanks so much, Alex, for validating my and B’s experience. I’d say by all means I am still affected to this day by the “treatment” I got from Maria. Before I started with Maria, I had a best friend and also had a boyfriend. She sabotaged those relationships and I lost both. As soon as she knew I had an eating disorder she tried to stop me from running, assuming that all people with ED overexercise. She also assumed all people with ED throw up. I don’t. She assumed all people with ED are sneaky liars and I’m not.

    Immediately, she began the forced weigh-ins at my primary care doctor’s office. I had a better relationship with my previous T, based on trust. With Maria, it was all about distrust. She forced me to play with stuffed animals in her office. It was so degrading! That’s therapy?

    After I was brutally abused in Massachusetts General Hospital, Maria claimed the “unit” I’d been on didn’t exist. This woman was a mandatory reporter and should have taken me seriously. After that, she made moves to try to get me into a state hospital.

    Maria threatened to put me in State at every appointment (twice a week), if I didn’t show up, she called the cops, and if I was ten minutes late due to subway outages, she was already on the phone with the cops. She told me if I didn’t show up to my forced weigh-in, she was calling the EMT’s. Not only that, but there were two ways to get to the forced weigh-in. One by foot, which Maria said I couldn’t do because it burned calories, and the other, I had to pay $13 each way for the cab ride. She accused me of vomiting when I never did that. That got to the point of ridiculous accusations. She spent a few sessions saying “bullshit” after everything I said. She had a seven-page contract written for me, and changed it at her whim or broke her end of the agreement. She bossed me around. When I got injured and the orthopedist told me I’d never walk or run again, she said, “Yay.” I have diabetes insipidus (from Lithium) and I tried to explain I need LOTS of water. She told me, “You are self-harming with water.” Or, “You are addicted to water.” Or, “You use water to manipulate others.” Or, “You drink water to give yourself edema to make it look like you weigh more.” These accusations reflected gross ignorance on her part. Then once when I was on the brink of death from dehydration and stuck in an ER for three days, she fired me because I refused ED “treatment” and said I would only go to a medical floor. A few days later, she phoned me, apparently changing her mind.

    Firing her some six months later wasn’t the end of it all. I couldn’t get anyone except other patients of hers to believe that a therapist could possibly be so abusive. During those next few months not one person would speak to me, not on the phone nor in person. Not one person returned my calls. I tried everything. All I wanted was to go out to coffee with someone. People just refused, rather rudely. I love solitude, but the forced social isolation that resulted from Maria’s abuse was pure hell.

    What could I do? Go hire another person, pay someone to talk to me? It was coming down to that, because I had not other opportunity to speak to anyone. I thought that was only going to last one month, but it dragged out and dragged out. No conversation from family, no workplace, no clubs (I was denied entrance to many), no friendly neighbors, nothing.

    You bet I am still affected, even though several years have passed. I’ve developed a fear of losing friends. I feel often on the defensive, like i have to “prove” everything I say, back it all up with “statistics” since my word was never good enough. Because of Maria’s abuse, I was denied future medical care. My psychiatrist believed Maria over me and that eventually led to more abuse while inpatient.

    This abuse isn’t limited to what happens in the office. It affects your whole life. It can affect you for years to come. I know why Donna killed herself. I know why Diane killed herself, too. Apparently, Adam Lanza was abused by a therapist. I can see why he did what he did. Because no one understood.

    I am doing everything I possibly can to get over the trauma. I can’t just go into a meditative trance or pray and then say it’s over with. All I want is for others to believe my story. That means others should not downplay it, stop claiming “it was a bad match,” stop claiming I’m “oversensitive,” stop claiming that what happened was a reflection of misperceptions due do “disorder.” Just accept what I am saying. The more acceptance I get, the easier it gets to heal from what she did.

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  • Margie, please don’t diagnose online. I thought the therapy profession didn’t do that. If the relationship is supposedly based on actual interactions and an actual relationship, then how can you state anything at all about B’s supposed disorder? I keep wondering if the only folks that understand just how harmful therapy abuse is are those that have been abused by therapists. Which, if true, further illustrates my point.

    From what I recall of therapy, I could talk to some of them about eating disorders till I was blue in the face and they still had no idea of what I was experiencing. I was laughed at for three decades and told, “That’s impossible,” more times than I can count. I was told by many, “That’s nothing, your complaint is trivial,” when by all means, it wasn’t. That’s how I almost died. Because they were totally clueless. Because very few ever believed me, nor had any idea of just how serious it was. I would have loved to have had one that had been through what I had been through, and also one who didn’t have too much distance on it, since the raw part of the memory fades fast and turns into anecdote and pat answers. I heard, “Follow your meal plan,” or “One day at a time,” or “Accept your body,” only because I don’t think they had any answers at all. A nutritionist would have been a better choice for me.

    Mental suffering is not the same as cancer because you can’t measure it. It’s not a tangible tumor, nor a disease.

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  • Honestly, Margie, maybe you’re taking it too personally. If a person is bitten very badly by a dog, I would say it’s quite understandable, for a long time afterward, to be afraid of all dogs. Even if it’s not logical. The fear is instinctive, and protects the person from harm. That’s why people (and animals) develop fear of anyone in uniform, or anyone wearing a white coat. If a woman is raped, she might fear men, for a very long time afterward. After a person is abused, how can we expect that person to just get over that fear? It took me incredible effort to stop fearing cops, since I’d been hauled off by them, threatened, and wrongly accused by them so many times. I am no longer afraid, simply because the policio here are not like that. I choose to stay away from anything resembling a shrink because I don’t want a diagnosis. Diagnosis was more harmful to me than the pills. It was a lie, all wrong, all complete misunderstanding and mishearing for three decades. That’s a lot of life they stole from me. I am doing everything I can to rebuild and start over, and I’m nearly 60. I don’t think one person can blame me at this point for feeling the way I do.

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  • Margie, Listen to what you are saying. If B almost killed him/herself, that’s serious. I knew someone who did in fact kill herself because of her therapists. There was more than one, and I knew them myself. I see therapists as like any other, they are on a bell curve, with most being mediocre, some very bad, and a few exceptionally good. Same with musicians, car repair people, and college instructors. Of all the 20 + that I had, one I’d say was exceptionally good. In order to be good, she had to eventually go against her supervisor’s instructions. He handed her a patient (me) and told her the patient was “severe BPD.” After a while, this therapist realized her supervisor was wrong. Finally, she told me flat out, “You have an eating disorder.” I said to myself silently, “It’s about time someone figured that out. Why didn’t they just ask?” Then, she said, rather tearfully, since we’d been together for a long time, that she felt ill-equipped to handle my problem. She literally felt like she had failed me. I told her she hadn’t, that she’d listened better than the others. I told her that to me, listening and caring meant more than expertise, especially if that expertise is book-learning only. The real expertise is to have the problem yourself, so you know how it feels. Sadly, the next people she handed me to were the book-learning types. “Specialists.” They were totally clueless.

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  • Yes, Katie, I saw the contradiction in his blog and made a stab. For one thing, I agree that some people “use” doctors and I can see why the docs resent this. I have a pal who can’t seem to get it out of her head that if docs are doing what they’re supposed to be doing, you go to a doctor to improve your health. She refuses to see it that way, and instead, hopes for MORE illness so she can get more pills. I swear each time she gets a new dx she’s happy. But I ask her why. She says that means there’s a cure. I ask her what she wants, to be free of sickness, or to have more sickness and more pills. Funny, she won’t even hear that question, she’ll stop me midway and go round the mulberry bush again. She wants pain, she wants more panic attacks, she wants anything, any reason for pills, and if she has pain she wants to make sure the doc knows. I suggest something that actually might cure her, relieve pain, etc, and she refuses to go that route, only the routes that keep her sick and on pills forever. I think the only thing that’ll stop her is when the pills make her so sick she gets the wakeup call. I can see why a doctor is frustrated with that situation. But I think the shrinks put themselves into the pill-dispensing role in the first place. You walk into their offices, and right away they got that script pad waiting. Who do they expect is going to see them but someone wanting pills? Why don’t they put up a sign saying “I give out high school diplomas.” All the dropouts will be lined up waiting. Whoever has more money or more billable insurance will be deemed the sickest and therefore most worthy.

    I think psychiatry has their stock answers to any of us who might call themselves anti psychiatry. Can they put the same labels on us if we say we are pro-human rights? That scares them. Any mention of rights and they’ll try pulling the paranoia card. If they can’t prove schiz or bipolar they’ll try the “Axis 2” garbage. It’s perfectly vague, therefore, so unprovable and wide-umbrellaed that the suit will fit anyone. You prove “Axis 2” by taunting the patient, poking fun, provoking, till she gets pissed. Then you claim she has “anger issues.” I remember that one from back in the 1990’s. Even in the 80’s they did that. I think the med schools teach it.

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  • Margie, I, too, experimented on myself. In shrink-talk, they call that self-medicating and tell us it’s a terrible sin. However, the world’s greatest inventions were such experiments. Only by freeing myself from this sin mentality and from those that propagated it was I free to get back in touch with my body. Self-medicating means you take care of yourself. How much more productive and joyful than doctor-prescribed medicating, since our doctors don’t live in our bodies (unless you are one yourself). I’m still working on it, in fact. But had I stuck with doctor-run care, selling myself to them, I’d be dead now. Because I took control, I’m alive. Alive enough to write these words and more.

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  • Katie, I saw Hassman’s post calling people who are antipsychiatry “Axis II.” What next? My psychiatrist said I was “paranoid and manic.” Then, midsentence, she changed that diagnosis to “bipolar mixed.” (I have that on tape.) Anything to discredit us, slam us down, or take away our rights. Freedom of speech means you can say what you want, but it doesn’t seem like freedom if what you say goes nowhere due to discrediting diagnoses.

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  • I have been arguing this one for a while. It’s very difficult to convince people who are spellbound by the drugs to understand that the drugs aren’t the one and only answer. Mostly, what I hear is, “Yes, but my depression is so severe I need the drugs.” The assumption is that whatever Big Pharma has to offer is “stronger” than any other approach. This is quite clearly not true. I really think there is a need for nutritionists who think outside the box, that is, those that reject FDA mentality, which is what you get at most nutrition schools, and look at the bigger picture.

    As soon as I realized that all my own difficulties were nutritional, I set out to solve that problem. I realized that I had gone to the Mental Illness System begging for help solving a nutritional problem. They were never equipped to deal with this, so I got psychiatrized. It was almost like I had gone to a podiatrist for a broken tooth. Thirty years later, I realized my nutritional difficulties were never addressed and had been forgotten. I had to experiment on myself until I found answers. This took a very long time. I don’t think I could have done it living in a place where I was seen by everyone around me as “sick,” that is, having a diagnosis.

    I finally decided that I wanted to share with others what I discovered, and help people with problems similar to mine avoid the pitfalls I fell into. So now I am going to be enrolling in a coaching training. Coaches never use DSM labels, in fact, doing so is considered unethical. It’s not about what’s wrong with you, but how you can take very positive steps to fulfill your dreams. Mostly, I need to learn how to be a better listener.

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  • Why protect them, Alex. I name them all. Now that I am free of illegal retaliation, there’s nothing illegal about naming the shrinks and institutions. As I said, we don’t sign confidentiality papers regarding outing the clinicians or facilities. I have checked and double-checked this. Many online venues are supportive of Freedom of Speech. Do be aware (anyone out there) that if you name names (including your own) you could be subject to retaliation, such as more forced psychiatry. They are rather insidious about this have no regard for the law nor morality when they retaliate.

    I do know the following: We need to be truthful. In writing school I learned the difference between truth and accuracy. (Psychiatrists told me this was nonsense, by the way.) If a person tells the truth, we know, and should take into account that our memories aren’t perfect. We also know human POV (point of view) is limited to one set of eyes. This means I need to leave open the variables I may be unsure of, or state very clearly “This is speculation on my part” when this is the case.

    In the writing of a personal account or memoir, it is usually implicate in the writing itself that the writer is making use of, say, compound characters, characters who are disguised or deliberately altered to hide identity, changing of place-names, etc. Most writers state how much they have taken their liberties in a disclaimer. As for the naming of names, what are we holding back for?

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  • Alex, I am replying to your comment regarding hidden cams. I do have recordings that I made. I don’t have recordings of the worst offenses. But I did sneak recorders into a few of the other sessions. I actually started doing this way back in 2009, because something told me things weren’t right. I’d have recorded them all, but I was so often scared of surprise “sectioning” that I knew I could only bring the recorder in when I was absolutely positive I’d walk out and not get wheeled out. I never signed a paper that said I had to keep confidentiality, only that the clinician would. Tape recording without the person’s knowledge isn’t legal in all states but I believe to “catch” abuse, allowances are made. Most psych wards do have cameras, often sound and video both. Why do you think they don’t allow cell phones? Not only because of cameras, but because a phone can transmit abuses via patients’ conversations. The institutions routinely break telephone rights laws for this very reason.

    Oh yes, they’ll grant patients privacy. But it’s only to protect the institutions and their abuses. It’s so twisted around.

    I don’t for one minute regret the recordings I made, and none involved other patients, ever. All were of 1:1 meetings. It was for my own protection, since I noticed my own words were often written down by my shrink and then, used against me. I don’t see any reason why I couldn’t do the same. I have never made these recordings public. I have publicly discussed the content plenty, though.

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  • Alex, my experience with these diagnosis-touters who get offended by our mere presence are actually reiterating that they aren’t really all that secure with the eugenics they propagate. When someone is hostile to me I remind myself that they are really speaking to the person in the mirror. In writing school, I learned that the degree of discomfort others feel regarding our writing is most likely a reflection of the effectiveness of our words.

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  • “Online diagnosis of total strangers” runs rampant, especially in popular media and between Facebook “friends.” I once was commenting on an article posted once by a shrink who was discussing diagnosis and families. This was on Psychology Today. So many people were writing in asking for help with their family scapegoats. He was literally not only diagnosing the families who wrote in, berating them as the cause, but diagnosing the designated patients who weren’t even participating! “I think your daughter has___disorder,” etc. All my comments were deleted on that post. I mentioned that maybe it’s possible that a false diagnosis was given. Granted, all psych dx is either complete nonsense, or not psych in origin (such as epilepsy). You give a psych dx, a person will live up to it. This is what’s so criminal about it.

    Actually, recently there was a story out about a woman diagnosed with epilepsy. She was encouraged to get sterilized. I guess over a decade later she found out that the diagnosis was false. Luckily, she managed to get pregnant, and I don’t recall the details on that. The precise same thing happened to a male acquaintance of mine who later had his vasectomy reversed.

    I see parallels here. Young people told to abandon jobs, education, careers, grad school, or to break off engagements, or never have family or children. Told we’ll be sick for life. After ten years, or twenty, or even ONE, it can be nearly impossible to regain what we had.

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  • Yes, I am enjoying a chuckle over this one, Katie. The usual, “You are paranoid about the meds” deal, or “paranoid about cops,” or, “paranoid about psychiatry.”

    Jesus was schiz, MLK was paranoid over race, Gandhi was surely nuts, too! What crazy ideas they had! Human rights? Say what? Only fetuses and cute animals have rights.

    Why don’t we just legalize slavery, too? After all, under other names, it’s not only already legal, it’s desirable “treatment.” It’s a scientifically proven method of silencing those of us insane enough to demand, “Love thy neighbor.”

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  • Interesting feedback here. I love this article. Sorry, Katie, but I cannot view society or any segment of society as having a psych diagnosis (axis anything) that has no validity anyway. I find the idea of “character disorder” so grossly offensive that I now will not use that term to describe a person, nor group of people. This includes “psychopath” and “sex offender.” What do these things say except “We now expect you to behave badly.” I also avoid the terms “toxic” or “negative energy” as applied to humans, since these are just DSM personality disorder diagnoses re-worded to sound trendy and cool, as underhanded labels, really.

    Most people are just plain confused. We see contradictions out there, swaying us this way and that. We notice dishonesty, unfairness, bigotry, corruption, and greed. If we try to point out the truth, we get publicly ridiculed, or stoned or hung or beheaded, either literally or figuratively.

    We need stronger protection for whistleblowers, making it safer for anyone to speak out. This needs to happen on all levels, applying to all rungs of the socio-medical ladder. The laws are too weak if they exist at all. Patient whistleblowers and malpractice victims usually get persecuted in some fashion, and often forced onto gag orders, many end up with ruined reputations. More protection for whistleblowers would stop these “programs” before they got too far. From what I have observed, patients, students, and workers are too scared to speak out right now, and are told it’s a disease (or bad attitude) if you don’t “accept” the status quo.

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  • Therapists posing as substitute parent is almost always abuse. It’s abuse when they use scare tactics, accusations, rope the police into their threats, use harmful discriminatory language when speaking to or of their patients, or treat them with low expectations. I think the one of the initial harms is the lie, “Ask for help.” That’s the beginning of the dependency. I had over 20 therapists and I’d say almost all of them abused. Before therapy, I was an independent, career-bound, very successful music student. People were telling me that going to therapy was going to be a huge mistake for me. My college advisor told me he feared if I left school to go to therapy, I’d never return. He was right.

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  • BPD, I choose to keep as many people away from diagnosis as possible. Nowadays, lots of insurances cover “therapy” without any copay anyway. If it’s covered, you are automatically diagnosed. Hello, discrimination, hatred, loss of job, loss of family, the cops profiling you, you can’t get back to college, your reputation ruined. All that happened to me even before I took one pill. I know people who committed suicide because of therapy alone. I’ve seen the most vicious, power-hungry, manipulative people call themselves therapists. I would never recommend therapy to anyone, and that’s my choice. I also won’t stop a person, because that’s force, and they are entitled to choose to see some dude in an office and get dependent if that’s what they really want. I have seen so many people lose their lives and all their dreams shattered because some therapist convinced them they had a diagnosis, a permanent character disorder, or brain disease. Most are dead now. Diagnosis is the biggest psych crime there is. I don’t think statistics tell us one thing about the human condition, about feelings, nor about real human suffering, grief, nor love. Numbers don’t tell you how a person feels when they end up forced into a hospital, and then, all their classmates and even families turn their backs, the great job is gone, or any of the psych horrors so many people go through. We cannot reduce such things to numbers and I think the new look at Study 329 tells us just that. Any study can be twisted around to suit someone’s wallet. A study won’t even tell you how many dead bodies there are, since there’s so much coverup. I love it when therapists get out of the torture business.

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  • I just got finished with one (I had one single session with him) who said since I couldn’t afford his fees (any more than the one session by phone) I should go get pills for my insomnia, which was what he was supposedly treating. That actually made up my mind for me, that I don’t want to go back. It goes to show he has very little faith in his methods. And GetItRight you are correct, most do fall back on pills. It’s kinda logical since they too endorse the disease model.

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  • I wonder if you are factoring psych meds into the picture, BPDTrans. Because I agree that if a person takes psych meds, then they’re better off with therapy topping off the brainwashing than pills and only a psychiatrist to do the brainwashing in like 15 minutes once a month. I actually don’t see anyone getting better with therapy. Those that claim to be getting better are still hooked on therapy, dependent and more needy than when they started out, still stuck, still claiming their therapist saves their life and they can’t live without it. Somehow, that doesn’t look like wellness to me, but admission that they have a lifelong, disabling condition, since the only hope they think they have is that dude in the office collecting the money. I don’t think I’d ever agree to any therapy unless it was very very short term (like two sessions), wasn’t with a mandatory reporter, and didn’t involve diagnosis at all. I think I’d be much more happy doing a class, or music lessons, or fitness training, but that’s actual skilled help. No more dudes in offices for me.

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  • I totally agree with what Get I right said. I don’t think therapy alone will be of much use to most people. I know many people who need to get away from bad situations, and therapy only tells them to “cope better” that the patients are poor copers, that is, diseased and needy. This will only perpetuate the problem, especially since so often the oppressive situation is the therapy or the therapist, on top of the crapped situation that the patient started out with. That is how people get trapped into dependency.

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  • Well, you figure it’s a bell curve, a total crapshoot when it comes to “therapy.” Some go and then feel better, but we know depression improves anyway. Then there are those who go who are “maintained.” That is, their mood is sustained at a low level because it’s not allowed to run its natural course. I would say most who go into “mental health care” get stuck there for life, and only get worse.
    Moral: Get out while you can.

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  • I’ve been feeling the same way myself, Ted, and have thought a whole lot about your question. In some of my writings, I draw parallels between the MH System and religious cults. I was actually in a very powerful brainwashing religious cult called the Moonies when I was 21 years old. Some of my writings have caught the attention of the ex-cult crowd. Some six months after my cult experience, I met a young man who was an ex-Moonie like myself. As it turned out, he has now written a bunch of books and is one of the most prominent authorities on cults writing in English. When I was 22 I did an extensive college paper on the subject. Without question, the same brainwashing techniques that were used in Guyana to convince over a hundred people to drink cyanide are also used in psychiatry, called “treatment.” These are tried and true techniques. Advertising and sales use a few of these techniques rather effectively, but they don’t use them all, thankfully.

    We can also be persuasive. Even fiction writing uses persuasive techniques, or any writing, since the writer must always keep the reader on his/her toes. We want the reader to stay glued to the page. Evoking emotion is usually desirable.

    Most likely, those that are against psychiatry in some form run on a continuum. We have the hard core believers. I’d say there aren’t that many. There are those of us here. I’d say the majority, whether they have had direct exposure to the System or not, are in some way, “questioning.” Those in state of doubt, in the middle of the continuum, are the ones we need to reach.

    We need to present ourselves as folks that they can relate to. “Me too” is powerful. If we share our stories, we need to make them both believable and accessible. So the “questioning” crowd might not relate to “Tardive Dyskinesia” since as lingo, it sounds just too far out there. But to speak of rather universal concepts of the human condition is bound to evoke more passion. Love, betrayal, devotion, grief….all these are easily understood.

    One effort I made with a friend of mine that I watched go deeper and deeper into the System was to try to appeal to her as divorcee. I tried to explain that leaving my abusive therapist was like leaving an abusive marriage. What I found, though, was the she doesn’t seem to remember! She recalls what happened, but has no recollection of the emotions she experienced. Too drugged and brainwashed, I guess. However, my attempt reached others rather effectively.

    I am not good using statistics in persuasion, but I am sure others here are. I tend to speak more of what, precisely, I recall. However, I know I must do this in a way that others see themselves in the characters I write about.

    We must remember that most likely, the opposition won’t be overturned overnight nor will it be blown to bits by the Ten Plagues. More likely, we’ll turn one mind at a time. To me, freeing one mind is freeing us all.

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  • Psychiatry tries to assert its legitimacy by putting real diseases under its umbrella as well as make-believe ones. For instance, various dementias, which are neuro conditions. It can be detected via testing and is measurable. This is neuro territory and psychiatry needs to butt out. My theory about eating disorders likewise, that these are nutritional issues, not psychiatric. I find that this explains why “meds and therapy” is ineffective for ED. “Recovery” rates are very low, and in fact, anorexia kills far more people than depression, schiz, or any other so-called MI. I think that’s because the prescribed and recommended treatment is to outright kill the kids, then lie and say they didn’t.

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  • This was in 1981-1982. I had no clue what to do about my eating problems. I didn’t know there was such thing as “eating disorders,” having never before heard that term. To give you point of reference, Karen Carpenter died in 1983. So I had no clue, nor did my family, what was the problem and that in fact, it could kill a person. Except that I instinctively knew it could. Doctors, also, didn’t realize this, and continuously insisted that I had a trivial rich girl’s problem, a Jewish American Princess problem. Antisemitism factored in big during those years, since most of my treators were antisemites.

    So having no clue where to turn, I took a term off of school and moved to the Boston area. I thought I might find some answers in a big city. A family friend had been to a day treatment program and recommended it to my family. I got there and then, after a few months, realized they didn’t know a thing about ED. What they should have done was to tell me that they didn’t have adequate knowledge nor skills to help me. Instead, they kept me there nine months until I begged to leave. I left much worse off than when I came.

    The question was posed about six months in, and I believe those present were me, my two parents, and one or two therapists. My parents discussing back and forth, my dad trying to figure out what scientific basis this all had, and my mom pointing out just how inconvenient it all was. Both complaining that I now smoked, lost interest in music, lost interest in reading, writing, or physical exercise. They got sidetracked over the smoking.

    So I was saying nothing, kinda overwhelmed and wishing they would quit the bit about the smoking. Was that really the issue? The therapists, on one hand, tried to point out that smoking wasn’t the core of the issue. Actually, the therapists couldn’t seem to find an issue.

    All the sudden, someone figured out that there were two adolescent boys in the room that might have something wise to say. My brother must have been 16 or 17. The boys are both blond, and the younger one had just grown his red beard. We’re all short. I’m 5’1″ and this particular brother is also small, 5’4″ (so he claims, but I think he’s 5;3″). Just to set the stage and bring you all into the room…..

    So there was this silence, while we all waited for my bro to speak up. To add to this drama, my bro spent a few poignant seconds stroking that beard of his before speaking.

    Then he said, “But what about Julie’s eating disorder?”

    That summed it up. I was sitting in an entire room of people and and had attended this program so diligently for months, where I spent five days a week, six hours a day, and rather quickly, they’d entirely forgotten why I was there.

    How typical. The therapists had no answer. That led to my wasting three decades of my life.

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  • None of this “only some psychiatrists are inhumane” makes sense. In order to not be inhumane, you have to go against the entire philosophy upon which psychiatry seems to be based.

    We aren’t human.
    We have no value as people.
    Disregarding our humanity is necessary and justified to “improve” our condition.
    “Improving” means making us more profitable to them.
    Our own viewpoint or opinion has no importance, since we are by nature, inferior.
    Psychiatry is the ultimate owner and overseer of its property. Slaves are property, not people.

    There’s so much talk about modern slavery, such as the marketing of children for use as military or sex slaves. Or girls sold for breeding, arranged marriages, etc. So much talk about unequal sentencing based on race and other factors. Or the inhumane treatment of pets or livestock. I am often appalled that the same people who speak out so eloquently about these wrongs are at the same time, completely blind to what’s happening to patients, and in their ignorance, go on and on about “right to treatment.” It can’t even be spoken of as a right since it psychiatry is at its core based on coercion, and ultimately, force.

    Therefore, the term survivor seems accurate and to me, is preferable. I’m speaking from the point of view of a person who stays away from certain terminology since it’s too vague, too skewed, or too overused.

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  • Yes, me too. I have now written in the book I am working on how it was my youngest brother, only a child at the time, who pointed out that MH was totally missing the boat. He posed a simple question in a family session that was a real eye opener, or should have been, in particular for me but also for my parents and the therapists. Too bad it took me decades to see the light. It’s so cool being able to look back and remember it, very clearly, the exact expressions on people’s faces and the tone in the room. So now, I can replicate that whole scene in my writing in a way that is understandable.

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  • Sanderella, the treatment team your 15-year-old granddaughter is seeing sure doesn’t seem too educated. Only nothing really surprises me these days. Abilify is the one antipsychotic drug that tends not to cause weight gain, but a few people who take it in fact do gain weight from it. If the docs really knew their drugs and wanted to be cruel enough to force weight onto a person in that manner, they’d use Zyprexa. Using these drugs for that isn’t even legal but I have seen this done on eating disorders wards myself. They do this deceptively and in fact, doctors admitted to me the deliberate deception. Also they do it in nursing homes to underweight elderly people, usually again Zyprexa, since the weight gain is pretty much inevitable. I’ve heard usually at least 25 pounds per year. So in eight years, 200 pounds gained. Already proven not to cure eating disorders nor helpful at all in weight management. Not that they care, they’d rather see compliance.

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  • Anyone who isn’t honest usually fesses up right in the way they use words. I had one shrink write to me in comments the following. I mentioned that I had had ECT and that it had done harm to me. He wrote back saying he highly doubted I had ECT for an eating disorder. Well? What was behind that? The full comment, which was taken down since so I don’t recall the precise wording, was indicative that in his opinion, since ECT isn’t given for an ED, I actually was delusional that I’d had ECT. I wrote back in commentary and said that yes I did have ECT and they gave it to me because I was depressed (I probably was, as I was locked up, after all), and timed ever so perfectly with my 190 days running out. I stated that when they saw how messed up I was after the ECT, I was given a brand new diagnosis as coverup for damages. He wrote back and said, “That would have been gross malpractice.” Yep. True confession, spelled out. At this point, all my comments were removed.

    They will often say it to your face, too. When my own psychiatrist told me in 2013 “I am giving you this drug to stop you from writing.” wasn’t she putting her foot right into her mouth?

    Twice recently, I did the same thing myself. There’s something absolutely wonderful about biting your own toe, tasting blood, and realizing that you are in fact, human, a person who is sometimes wrong and often makes mistakes. Not only that, capable of being open to learning, quite the hard way, that you screwed up bad and need to make a few changes. If I were still a patient, none of that would be possible. I need to learn from my dog, whose paws are within easy reach. (sniff, sniff)

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  • I agree, however, common sense tells me the opposite of what I was told in psychiatry. I’d say the first lie was “Come to us for help.” I resisted that one since it was my inner nature to be independent. Well? That’s an inner nature all adults ordinarily have, but psychiatry steals our independence and common sense and replaces it with their nonsense ideology of dependence.

    That said, I knew that to ensure that psychiatry stayed off my back, I had to continuously assert my independence and human rights. This means not going to them. This means using my sense of responsibility they told me I didn’t even have. We all do! They loved to tell us we were incapable of managing our lives. If you fall for this lie, you end up dependent again.

    To me (and maybe not to anyone else) this means acting responsibly, based on common sense. Not perfect, but not the way psychiatry taught me to act, like a helpless mental patient. No matter how shitty I FEEL emotionally, I don’t go to psychiatrists. I don’t call crisis lines. I don’t go running to psych wards. I might feel helpless, but only on the inside. That helpless scared me comes ’round less and less frequently these days.

    The #1 person I rely on is ME. The number two person is my dog. Beyond that, I occasionally ask a friend for “advice” but that’s been tricky. I would rather do an internet or library search to learn how to manage my life. Asking for help almost always ends up badly.

    I have ruined friendships, god only knows why or how, simply by asking for advice. I have ruined friendships by opening up, and then, getting slammed down or wrongly judged. I don’t want one more ruined friendship. I’d rather not even have friends than have rotten ones. The last one I made quickly and lost just as quickly. Why? Due to the person jumping to her own wrong conclusions about me, and then, closing her mind and refusing further communication. It’s stupid and wrong but people are just like that.

    I did “try out” a therapist fairly recently. Why? because I know that the insomnia I have is from trauma, from being abused in a hospital. I saw two safely via skype and without revealing my exact location.This kept me safe from the various harms done to me in the past. I actually tried out three situations, but then, quickly realized my mistake. One was a scam but I got my money back (that was tricky). Another refused, with all sorts of excuses. The third charged a lot so I said, after one session, that I couldn’t afford more than once a month. He said, “Well, then, why don’t you go get a prescription for sleeping pills?” I guess he doesn’t have much faith in the effectiveness of his own methods, so I can only conclude that in reality, he’s not the miracle worker he claimed to be. I am really laughing over this. Thank goodness it was only one session and he didn’t know me for a hole in the wall. I do not plan to go back at this point and I believe going to any of them was and will be a mistake.

    I have tried all the pat answers to “fix”‘ this insomnia but nothing works. However, I would rather put up with the discomfort, which is all it really is, than go back to harmful pills or seeing a shrink. I won’t go to a “healer” either, which is just another euphemism for therapist. Guesswork is guesswork, whether the person claims to be a therapist or a psychic. I am not obligated to believe in either one of these, and I certainly won’t pay for guesswork.

    I do not threaten suicide. This will bring on the shrinks very fast. Just don’t. We were trained to speak out every time it crossed our minds. Even using the word in a sentence…just don’t do it to keep yourself from being re-captured. If a person wants to end their life I don’t mind if they talk about it, but I myself would never send them to psychiatry. nor a therapist, nor psychiatry’s right arm, the cops. You can trust very few, sorry to say.

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  • I gotta laugh. I think this is the same Pies that is based in Lexington, Massachusetts, the town where I grew up. The street I grew up on was half unpaved. Now, Lexington’s streets are paved with gold. I’d stay away, the place must be overrun with shrinks.

    That said, as for the last question, what the heck can we do to stop them now? Are there any better ways we can organize to oust them from their power and control over society? I like bpd’s suggestions. Just don’t go to them is really #1. We aren’t, but millions of others are going to shrinks and worshiping them like they are gods. Do we focus on ourselves, making our lives better so as to show a good example, or do we focus on getting the word out?

    Some say getting the word out is healing for them. So it works both ways. Others pull away from activism after a while, saying it’s making them worse off, or that they are tired and need to focus more on rebuilding their lives.

    I think we need to provide an alternative for the general public to latch onto. Again and again, show the general public just how much better off we are without shrinkage in our lives. I think we need to demonstrate that there are as many paths to wellness as there are human beings on the planet. I am surprised (but not so surprised) that many people assume I’m talking about one specific alternative when I suggest that there might be a better answer than drugs and lockup. So some will tell me, “Vitamins aren’t strong enough. I am very sick and I need something powerful and expensive, by doctor prescription only.”

    We should present a variety of alternatives, not a one size fits all. I think to present the alternative as being an absolute, something only acquired by learning some secret, magical skills, is just playing the shrinks’ game. This includes pushing mindfulness on people or coercing them to pray or meditate. Or collecting money to teach people how.

    In that sense, we’re probably on the right track, since so often, we can’t agree on things. How awesome is that? We’re actually human!

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  • From what I recall in the 1990’s when it was the Diagnosis of the Day, they’d give it to anyone who showed up at hospitals a lot. That seemed to be the main criteria. Or to people that just didn’t get better. Or for insurance reasons.

    I believe the behaviors that are characteristic of BPD are ALL learned in therapy. They are bad habits picked up in treatment and encouraged by the providers. It is the providers that LOVE a crisis. it keeps them in the business, and it maintains their rescuer status. They are addicted to keeping their patients sick, and diagnosis does a darned good job of keeping people repeatedly doing those behaviors.

    I was not abused nor neglected by my parents and had a decent childhood I’d say. Average. Happy. I was given the BPD diagnosis at age 38 or 39 when I suddenly acted all spaced out. They knew they had damaged me from ECT. They had to explain why I was so confused. However, it makes little sense, if you believe the DSM at all, that a person would suddenly develop those symptoms at such a late age. The dx was given for convenience.

    Suddenly, as soon as they started expecting these behaviors, I began to cut. This was something I had done only once before, when I was much younger. I wasn’t a chronic cutter. Suddenly, I became one. i started to threaten suicide. Yes, it got very scary. Diagnosis kills.

    Funny, once I got away from that facility and the ECT wore off, I didn’t do any of those things anymore. Hmm…so I “recovered” from a so-called personality disorder? The DSM says bpd’s are hopeless. Guess I proved ’em wrong. I don’t know anyone who is borderline. It’s all caused by treatment.

    Oh, yes I do. Some people have salt and pepper hair. That’s borderline gray. I think I’ll go out and have fun diagnosing a few. It’ll feel so powerful and will satisfy a deep inner need for control.

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  • I don’t think I’m one to judge another. You own your body so you know better than anyone what’s right for it. Although sometimes when I point out to those still “in” that there are indeed alternatives, well, just that, choices. Personally, if I were to ever take a psych med again, I wouldn’t want to see a shrink to get the pills. I’d get them illegally if I had to, buy them on the street. It’s not the pills, it’s the power and behind the prescription, and the dependency it all leads to. Without power, dependency, and diagnosis, the spellbinding effect is greatly reduced.

    Get well soon. Take care of the noggin.

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  • I personally believe all humans have three basic rights that are innate to being human. These are respect, dignity, and privacy. I see every person, regardless of citizenship or nationality, as being born with such rights. Privacy: I own my body. Dignity: Allow me to make my own decisions, whether I am perceived capable or not. Respect: Treat me age-appropriately and honor me as I am, a person who throughout life changes and grows. Honor my abilities and honor my flaws. I am credible, period. I am the only expert on my own experience.

    Applying common sense to these ideas leads to any other aspect of human rights. To respect a person means you honor their words. You don’t trespass on another’s body or property without permission. You don’t imprison nor enslave anyone, nor deceive, nor force, nor coerce (which is a form of deception), no steal, and you don’t infringe on the person’s right to obtain or seek out information, nor on a person’s efforts to educate and enlighten him/herself. Don’t negatively judge a person based on assumption or the word of another. Does that adequately deem psychiatry as almost totally inhumane?

    I say almost. The psychiatrist walks up to a suffering, tired, poor, hungry street boy and reaches out his hand. That sounds okay to me, the sliver of humanity left in the profession. After that, the shrink says, “You can trust me. I’m a psychiatrist.” There’s the first lie. After that, all downhill.

    So the poor, tired, hungry boy looks up, having heard a soft and melodious voice. The boy sees an impeccable beard, not one hair out of place, teeth that are worth thousands in dental maintenance. The boy smells perfectly applied aftershave oozing from this adult figure, whose shadow is now cast in such a way as to obstruct all surrounding light. The boy gazes into the eyes of this stranger, which are turned downward, pinpointed on the boy. The psychiatrist mutters the word “Bulls-eye.” Ten years later, the boy tells himself he should have known better.

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  • Hi, I love what everyone has said. We are all saying the same thing so I am sitting here laughing. We are all different and we have different ways of expressing ourselves. I can only conclude that what we are expressing is TRUTH, not opinion. I know those still believing the lies of psychiatry often say, “That’s your opinion, which I respect but I disagree and think psychiatry is valid.” Then I have heard some go on and on criticizing me in a rather attacking manner, even online diagnosing me with various mental defects. Most likely, most psychiatrists did not, during their schooling, tell themselves, “I want to kill people and get away with it,” especially if they had not even started their psych rotation. Much as I am darned pissed at my own former psychiatrist, I remember when I started with her in 2001. She appeared to be about 16, and had a far more energetic and positive approach than she did 12 years later when she was threatening me in her office regularly. What changed? I can only imagine the dogma of psychiatry, with its money-driven lies and inconsistencies, eroded her innate moral sense. While I was a patient I believed those lies. To unbrainwash myself took incredible effort and I am still in that process. Can you imagine just how hard it could be to shake off the brainwashing if continuing to practice your own profession is dependent on your staying brainwashed?

    Having a turnaround of one’s whole belief system and realizing the truth is liberating on one hand, but it is no guarantee that the journey will be easy. One grieves losing the lies since they held all those false promises to which we once blindly clung. Our own degree of comfort with our life situation is now up to us, and no longer forced on us.

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  • BPDTrans, I am thinking we need to get away from the idea that we are in camps based on just how anti we are. It divides us. We all want change. And we all come from different backgrounds, different experiences, different human qualities, different abilities and different strengths and weaknesses. A lot of criticism that I hear personally is the negative overtone of anti. I believe that since I am a writer, I can improve and use more positive language. Changing one’s language changes the way one thinks. For instance, “If we can’t stop shock, thousands of lives will be ruined.” Or, more positively but saying the same thing, “Imagine if we could stop shock, it would save so many people.” I have found that if I try to change my language more toward the positive, actually rather consciously at first, people aren’t so turned off. I can say the exact same stuff, make the same pro-human rights statement without sounding condemning. I think this would help my ability to make and keep friends as well.

    I also feel that we need to set a good example for those still in the System and those “questioning.” That is, to live well and show that we are stronger now without shrinkage. At the same time, every human out there, whether labeled or not, is a “work in progress.” A few days ago, I vowed to speak slower. Oddly, I usually spoke at a slow to moderate pace and never rushed. Suddenly, all that changed and I speak so fast some cannot follow me. Many find it annoying. I learned that this is from trauma and it’s a common sign.

    I can work directly on the trauma, which is probably not wise if I do it alone, or I can do it backwards. I just figured this out a few days ago. My new theory. Tell me if it holds water: If I consciously and deliberately speak slower. and any time I find myself speaking too rapidly, stop myself, this discipline will in fact work backwards. The body’s habit to be on alert (which apparently is in one’s endocrine system) will in fact relax.

    I had a theory a couple of years ago that the same would work for eating disorders. I’ve never even developed this one. Many people I met in treatment spoke at barely a whisper. In fact, it was somewhat annoying but I tried to be polite. I realized later on that if only I could encourage a person to speak louder, at a more audible volume, the person might gain more confidence. That’s backwards from the thinking that one should have endless hours of therapy and then the whispering will stop.

    I once took voice lessons from one of the most amazing voice teachers ever, Frank Baker. I was so lucky to have known Frank. He would help his students discover the potential they already had. He also worked backwards, as I described. For that reason, I saw rank beginners who had never sung a note suddenly fill the room with sound.

    The Movement is getting larger in terms of numbers of people, which is why we bicker. My thinking on that is that we need to split up. Not as enemies, but working side by side. So we could have the legal folks, maybe several differently focused legal groups, and artists, and performing artists, reformed shrinks, journalists, etc. Or some who wish to focus on a particular challenge particular to survivors, such as Tardive Dyskinesia. Or how we communicate, as in this article. I am thinking that smaller groups are easier to self-manage. Democracy isn’t possible with a group so large so many get swept aside in the flurry. Like an army has troops, which are more manageable, that all work together to fight for justice or independence or whatever.

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  • B, I choose not to use the word psychopath to describe a person. First of all, I’m not a “doctor.” Secondly, “psychopath” is just another harmful diagnosis like the rest. There are people who commit crimes and those that tend not to. There are those wrongly accused and those whose lives are ruined because of a very petty crime or one done in youth. I feel the same about “sex offender.” They are the tiny percentage that got caught. Just like my particular “crime” was going to see a therapist many years ago.

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  • I like the way you spelled out the different types of miscommunication. I came from a good family, not a perfect one but what family is? Shrinkage annihilated my family, eroded it down to arguments over money, and distrust. So I ended up designated scapegoat. Someone else, you are right on about the way so many shrinks communicate and others working in facilities. I’ve been subject to jeering, finger-pointing (“You are a liar!” the doctor said, pointing his finger. “Liar!” he said, over and over), walking out on me before I finish a sentence, eye-rolling, pretending they don’t hear, constantly looking at pager, cell phone, or watch, taking casual calls on time I paid for, saying, “are you finished now?” when I just started two words ago, denial “We can’t see your Tardive Dyskinesia, so it must not exist.” ….”You claim you gained over 100 pounds on that pill? Why don’t you just accept your weight and live like that?” “It doesn’t matter. Your quality of life is poor so why do you need to live those extra 25 years?” “It doesn’t matter that there was a death in your family last week. How are your meds doing? That’s far more important.” “I don’t believe you even have a college degree. You are delusional and incapable of college.” The worst was the eye-rolling I’d say, or verbal manifestations of it.

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  • I have a question that I wanted to post on the forums but can’t seem to stay logged in whenever I end up in that area. So here I am asking it.

    I have spoken to people who do believe the ADHD diagnosis is real, but many who have it don’t see it as a disease or disorder. They do say that they see the world differently, and some tell me that this is backed by neuro testing. But what they tell me is that what ADH….. means is that they are very well suited for certain jobs that non-ADH… never could do as well.

    A close relative of mine was diagnosed at an early age, and put on drugs. i don’t say much about that. But here’s what interests me: the family of this relative tells me that the child inherited it from my mother, that my mom had undiagnosed ADHD (here I add the D since I am quoting). My beloved mom just died, btw. Anyway, the example they gave me was how she “flew around the kitchen.” Well, that’s true, she was often in a flurry. My dad told me he loved my mom and that he loved that she “had ants in her pants” and asked me once to be more understanding that that’s how she operates. On the other hand, it seemed rather demeaning that this relative would claim that my mother was a “bad mother” due to her not getting diagnosed. I know my mother wouldn’t have wanted to! No way! She was who she was. She was fine that way, and learned to work around the ants. She was extraordinarily smart and also creative. She was a dancer, modern dance, and she was really good.

    We all adapt. I myself didn’t have trouble concentrating in school nor academic difficulties. However, there are jobs I just plain suck at. In fact, I’ll bet anyone reading this can name a few jobs or activities that they wouldn’t be that good at, nor are they drawn to these jobs or activities.

    We do need to acknowledge that difficulty concentrating exists. It can be disconcerting or even cause a person to have a hard time fitting in. I don’t fit in so well with MIA since I’m not a medical person or lawyer. I’m a writer but not a journalist, either. I’ve played in orchestras just fine as trumpet player, but due to a double-jointed thumb, I’d be terrible on violin. There are places I feel comfortable, plenty. I think we all need to look for these places, where we can be ourselves and where we are appreciated and cherished.

    That said, I was in special ed once. On my request. I didn’t like the teacher I had, and she was fed up with me, too, so they allowed me to switch to any class I wanted. I shocked everyone by saying I wanted to be in the special ed class. But they obliged. I loved it and learned many new things. I recall the variety of students there was so vast that it was amazing. So many different ways of looking at the world. I remember I was envious of this one girl who was amazing at baseball. I think she topped anything I could do that year, because that was around 1967, the year our Red Sox won the World Series…almost.

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  • I would wholeheartedly agree, Alex and Jeanene. We will encounter naysayers, or at least that’s the word I use to describe those that invalidate. I know now that the mojority have good intentions. For instance, these treatment centers for eating disorders are filled with so much baloney concepts. I know some even lie to patients. We were all such an oppressed bunch. Those that are still in that revolving door are by all means unaware of the deception. Truth is, I do hear the tail end of the lies being passed around regarding myself and my writing. It’s not pretty. I worked my butt off on a human rights case that I won, not for myself, for the sake of other patients. I have continued to write about my experiences. All that got twisted around to “Human rights are trivial. Don’t listen to Julie because she’s against recovery. If you read her works you will be triggered into a relapse.” Very few patients broke away from this mentality, and I cannot blame the patients on a whole, but the situation itself. Nothing gives me more joy than when a patient or former patient contacts me and says, “I gave you a chance rather than believe what I heard. I’m so glad. I found out you were right all along.” And even more joyful, “Your writing has helped me so much.” I feel fulfilled when I hear that. It means so much more than a paycheck. I went through a time of unbearable loneliness until I found that it wasn’t lack of people in my life that was the problem. I don’t think loneliness comes from being alone nor having very few friends. I think it comes from repeated social rejection. I found that if I freed myself so that I could keep doing what comes naturally to me, without fear of further incarceration, the naysayers backed off.

    I am still seeking community. I am not desperately or even actively seeking it, but hoping someday I can feel at home with other humans, or a human. A partner would be awesome, or a small group of accepting people that I had a few things in common with. I figure that will happen and that I need to stop worrying. Mostly, I want to be understood. That, I hope, will happen in time. We are all still undoing what never should have been done in the first place. From what I have observed, everyone undoes differently. That’s cool, huh?

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  • Jeanene, I don’t know if I mentioned on here that a very good friend of mine told me shortly after I was abused while inpatient in 2013, “No one cares about what you write about. Why do you bother?” I didn’t tell him off right then. I waited, but he kept on saying they hadn’t abused me. I told him, “You weren’t there. How can you draw this conclusion?” I am sure he regrets our horrible conversation at the end, when he accused me over and over, claiming that if he had his way, he’d see to it that the hospital did the same thing over again.

    Also, just because we don’t earn paychecks doesn’t make what we do less valuable. If anything, since we do this out of passion, not paycheck, it is even more valuable. I’ve had people tell me, “Why don’t you give up writing and do something more worthwhile.” Okay, let’s tell Einstein he can’t be a scientist and to do something more productive. Let’s tell Lucille Ball that her acting was wasteful and she should have worked in a grocery store. Let’s all go to our doctors and tell them to give it all up. A shrink once told me I had a “useless master’s degree.” I guess his PhD was doubly useless. I’ve also heard from a number of people, “Who cares if your book didn’t sell? Why do you care what others think?” We writers know that visibility is important, validation is important. There are plenty of people who write very well but won’t take it to the next step, which is submitting for publication. Much as I hate the business end of writing I do feel that visibility is important. Works of art are meant to be shared. What ever happened to those trees that fell that no one heard? I can understand your devastation after there was no response from the eating disorders riff raff. They don’t talk to me, either.

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  • When I found MIA I learned I was not alone. This was huge for me and I’m grateful. I’ve learned, though, that all organizations are alike in that they have their elite, their cherished favorites, and they have those on the fringe as well. I kinda feel lost here, like there’s no place for me here and I have not always been treated with welcome arms. When I ‘ve complained, I’ve been blamed. I feel like I can’t win. I keep telling myself I’ll start my own website, since I have several sites already. I’m scared that in trying to publicize to gain support my idea will flop like everything else I try due to lack of participants. I’m not good at PR. That’s why I need to team up with others who are better at it than me.

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  • I agree with BPD transformation. Even though in the past I have stated the idea of therapy is all wrong since it creates an unbalanced relationship, leading to bribery and control, I believe there are a few therapists out there who refuse to diagnose. This is far more important than their attitude on drugs, and goes beyond simply affirming that drugs aren’t a good idea. Therapy is inhumane if it confirms psychiatric “illness.” Therefore, only a therapist who doesn’t take insurance (which demands diagnosis) and who is NOT part of a hospital clinic or an arm of the state is a safe one to see. Also, we humans tend to categorize to make sense of the world. This is normal and natural but boxing someone into an expected role that’s guaranteed to stick around for life due to the way USA medicine is set up is totally harmful due to the implication of permanence. Harmful labeling goes beyond psych diagnosis, too. It can include our role among our peers, such as “class clown,” “class fat kid,” “nerd,” “klutz,” “retarded,” and even “shy.” Used negatively, we get trapped. We can replace with positive labels such as “artist,” “hard worker,” or “devoted friend.” While these labels do lead to assumptions, they aren’t used to socially limit a person.

    Madmom, I have a chapter on mutism in my published memoir. The entire first section is titled, “Silence.”

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  • I believe BPD is the most harmful of all the diagnoses. I am so lucky I got that taken off since I didn’t fit the description at all. I did engage in behaviors briefly but as you say, there’s a continuum and McLean’s flat out lie that I was “severely borderline” was complete bullcrap. As soon as I left the environment of low expectations, I thrived, and this happened again and again until I realized what was happening. The BPD diagnosis was all coverup for ECT damage. So every time I had cognitive trouble they called it “dissociating” and if I complained bitterly about my thinking not being right, I was called “attention-seeking.” They said over and over that nothing was wrong. The worst of it was when my family was informed I had “severe BPD” and to distance themselves from me. Bye bye family. Due to none of my own actions, no tangible wrongdoing, nothing in my character, my brothers hardly ever speak to me and I have two nephews and a niece who don’t know me. My mother died a couple of weeks ago and I had no chance to say goodbye nor was contacted the day of the funeral. I dream of family reconciliation but I think I will need some sort of mediator to help with this since they discredit everything I say “Don’t listen to her, she’s delusional”…etc, even though BPD was taken off years ago.

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  • By all means, Jeanene, there need to be more of us. I’ve tried so many things, including working for ages on a newsletter. I sent out the first issue to about ten people. I received no feedback and not even a “thank you.” One of the people who asked for the newsletter defriended me on Facebook and the one “thanks for the file” was obviously written by a person who had not even read it and had no intention to. This is the voicelessness I am speaking of. After I blew the whistle on MGH and other places, word got spread around among the local ED “treatment buddies” that I was “against recovery.” I’m sure one of the facilities is deliberately spreading these lies. I have heard reports of “staff,” etc, telling patients to stay away from me and that any association with me will ruin their “recovery.” So when I tried to start a writing group for people with ED (which the local NEDA told me was sorely needed) of course, no one would even agree to show up or support the idea. I couldn’t find a single place, a single venue where I could speak out in all of Boston, since in antipsychiatry many thing ED is trivial (you die of it…yoohoo!) and in abuse venues I wasn’t allowed to mention therapy abuse, since doing so might dissuade people from “getting help.” Since my reputation was ruined there, I couldn’t start anything myself either. People who know me tell me it’s a good thing I left Boston, and that I left just in time.

    The freedom from oppression is amazing, not something easily understood by others. I am not only away from the MGH corporation, but away from the shrinkage mentality that is pervasive in USA society. You just can’t get away from it there. For instance, a friend here in Uruguay who knows nothing of my history tells me that she was drinking a lot of diet Coke. She told me she was starting to get panic attacks. She realized the diet Coke was the cause and stopped drinking it. The mentality here is do-it-yourself and not to go running for “help” to see some “expert.” What she did, finding the cause, was typical, since people here do not have the “ask your doctor” or “what’s wrong with you” mentality. Shrinkage is unpopular here, but we do have AA and we do have other ways that people can find support such as going to a class, doing music or sports or dining together. This is a poor country where folks aren’t going to pay for frivolous things such as going to an office to talk to someone when friends and family understand us better. The family structure in Latino cultures is far more cohesive than in Nortamericano cultures. Domestic violence seems to be more common here but other than that, I think it’s a terrific environment that doesn’t seem to breed singling out or labeling. I dream of the day USA stops all psych labeling, because I know most folks can’t up and leave as I did. Most people in USA, even people who are extremely well educated cannot grasp how vastly different it is here, that when I speak of freedom, I really mean it.

    I’m at the point where I have had to rid myself of the naysayers completely, all of whom just can’t get it out of their heads that maybe I wasn’t “sick” in the first place. The only place I can really express myself freely is in my blog, which I’ve had now ten years and written in it almost daily. Get away from those who expect certain behaviors from you, and lo and behold, you will suffer far less and most of these unwanted behaviors will completely disappear. Occasionally I get thanked for what I do, that I helped someone, and that, to me, is all I need, far more valuable than a paycheck.

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  • Jeanene, even here at MIA I still hear, “They are just a bunch of spoiled, skinny kids.” or, “They are fat gluttons.” MIA needs voices from survivors of ED “treatment” such as you and I to educate folks here. Also, within the ED circles, hardly anyone who calls herself an “activist” is speaking of human rights, but speaking of right to treatment or right to uphold the ADA and nondiscrimination. I’m not saying these things aren’t important but no one seems to see that the “care” isn’t care. It’s inhumane, it’s torture, and it rarely helps anyone, and that is plain as the emperor is naked. Keep on writing!

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  • BPDTransformation, I don’t know who you are nor where you are, but I know Gunderson, too. I won’t shut up about how badly he treated women. I spoke with him a few times in 1997. For one thing, I doubt the existence of BPD. I strongly confirm that these behaviors exist but they are almost always treatment-induced, circumstantial, and no way a lifelong set of personality traits. Shrinkage encourages these behaviors, and at the same time, deeply insults those that engage in them. They would never acknowledge that they in fact thrive on patients who cut and repeatedly attempt suicide. They love it. If nothing else, they find it a great reason to slam us down. I wrote a piece on this recently, in fact. It all feeds into the intense need for power in people like Gunderson. I wouldn’t give him a second of my brain space except to ruin his reputation as best as I can. When I recall that he diagnosed everyone who came near him with BPD, I seethe inside. These doctors have no clue what it’s like to live with that permanently on your record. I was lucky someone realized I was subject to a phony diagnosis and took it off mine. He should take time off from being the BPD guru and learn some manners, maybe sit in on a kindergarten class.

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  • Jeanene, Thanks so much for writing this and sharing your writing here. Your story is so much like mine even though we are not the same age. I, too, self-harmed very briefly long ago, and this was by all means treatment-induced. For me, too, it was an expression of utter voicelessness and inability to change my situation with an abusive therapist back in 1982. I didn’t self harm after that until again briefly in 1997 after I was given a bogus diagnosis and expected to self-harm. Expectation, whether via psych diagnosis or societal prejudices, causes the expected behavior. I don’t know where the study can be found, but even physical conditions can be worsened or improved depending on the expectations of those around us, in particular those we admire, trust, and uphold as “expert.” This is why maintaining a hopeful demeanor will surely help and not worsen much of what ails us.

    In addition, I think we writers are in agreement that re-storying is one of the most powerful tools we have. I have known many writers who healed from grief by writing about lost loved ones. Many were classmates from my MFA program at Goddard College who wrote wonderful pieces honoring the memory of family members. One writer I know found writing about her father so helpful that she later wrote about her mother.

    On voicelessness, for sure I feel the same. I, too, had a naysayer such as your exfriend in my life, a number of naysayers, in fact. “No one cares about what you write about. Why don’t you stop?” “Why can’t you forgive, it’s already been two weeks!” “They were just doing their job.” “What do you expect? That’s how they treat you people” and, “Don’t you think you need help for your paranoia? None of what you say is even possible. You are sick!” and “You are against recovery!” and numerous expletives on top of all that. Yes, my “dark humor” has been negatively commented on as well. If you read the writings of war veterans you will see that dark humor, which they will acknowledge as a new trait they now have in common, often follows traumatic events. I also am very tired of hearing, “That was in the past, right?” in other words, “I don’t want to hear about it.” I no longer associate with those who claim “You’re triggering me!” or demand that I censor myself around them or walk on eggshells in their presence. I know I’m skinny but if I walk on eggs, they’ll still break. Please get those naysayers out of your life and you will be much happier.

    Keep writing and speaking out. I, for one, am eagerly listening.

    Julie and Puzzle

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  • I went and read Allen Frances’s article. I only want to comment on Binge Eating Disorder. Binge eating isn’t gluttony. It comes from malnutrition. It is an instinctive body response, not a psych disorder at all. I suffered from this for three decades so I know first-hand what it’s like. Two points: Since it’s not a mental disorder, it’s a nutritional disorder, as are most eating disorders, and I think psychiatry needs to butt out.

    Secondly, the DSM does acknowledge this problem but because it doesn’t define it properly, it does real binge eaters a disservice. It makes no quantity distinction. So some people might eat two sandwiches and then, be terribly upset. That’s considered a binge according to the DSM. Others might eat ungodly quantities of food and then, be at serious risk for stomach rupture especially if they don’t or can’t throw up. I was one of those large quantity people and I never threw up. I guess folks are completely unaware of what this does to a person. I was so disabled by it that I couldn’t go to school or work a job or have a social life anymore. After a binge I could barely stand up, sometimes passed out, and was so sick I’d be in bed (and not at work) for days on end. In bed, lay there and groaned in agony, burping and farting all day. My stomach was so stretched that yes, it was seriously dangerous. Each time a person binges the risk of rupture increases. Not only that, at times, I ate things that weren’t food. Most of this happened because I was suffering from malnutrition, not some impulse problem.

    I tended to be thin, and often, underweight, so I couldn’t get anyone to believe me. For thirty years I got laughed at and poked fun at by my psychiatrists. Many of them assumed I was lying completely about the severity of it. I wasn’t. I was told that it was “impossible.” It isn’t. I was told I was “faking it,” and for godsakes no. This is why I ended up in MH “care” in the first place, where I never belonged.

    After three decades, still, no one really understood nor cared nor listened. They couldn’t fix it, so instead, they tried to fix the other nonexistent mental disorders. I know I am not the only one because others have contacted me and told me they suffer likewise.

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  • I am glad I found this article. I don’t know another name to call PTSD, except PTS. Truth is, after the psychiatric assault that happened to me in 2011, my whole personality changed. This had nothing to do with drugging and everything to do with repeated threats, unnecessary confinement, grossly abusive and illegal privacy invasion, restricting my water intake to the point where it was legal torture (I have diabetes insipidus), being scared for my life, abuse by unnecessary, unlawfully placed, untrained, uncaring 1:1 monitoring, repeated, long term abuse (unfounded threats and accusations, sectioning) by an abusive outpatient therapist, repeated dismissive treatment and discrediting by outpatient psychiatrist. After all that, everything that happened to me was denied. I was even told the “unit” I was on didn’t exist! Of course it does. Even two years later, my outside psychiatrist kept changing her story to fit, each time I proved I was right. By 2013, she couldn’t deny it had happened, but in a fit of anger she told me I deserved what I got and that it was “medically necessary.” This, too, was baloney. She begged me to quit blogging on the abuse. So now, my Freedom of Speech was being denied. She threatened me, begging me to take “any antipsychotic” that she claimed would make me stop believing my “delusion” that the abuse occurred. She said, “I am giving you this drug to stop you from writing.”

    I refused the drugs. After that, the abuse got worse.

    Maybe some folks don’t see that as a big deal. What if I said to a doctor, “I am giving you a drug to stop you from practicing medicine”? What if I told a teacher, “I am giving you a drug that will stop you from teaching”? Same thing, lower paycheck but the same. I have a master’s degree in creative writing and writing is what I do.

    All this led to a trauma reaction. I don’t think it’s a disease, as it’s a built-in response we are blessed with. Some of the person I have become is good and positive. I am an activist now and I discovered a whole new world. It caused me to ditch shrinkage. Some of the trauma reaction is so unpleasant for myself and others that for a while, I couldn’t even carry on a conversation. I get angry too easily and snap at people. Worse, I can’t get my mind off the abuse. I go to that awful place in my mind and repeat the stories over and over, and it creeps into almost every conversation, many of my emails and online interactions (here on MIA, too), and of course my own inner dialogue. My mind repeats the story and revisits it, and is pulled toward that story like a powerful magnet. My social problems are so annoying that I have ended up a recluse just to avoid unpleasant human interaction.

    I can discipline myself to at least have manners and be diplomatic. Practice improves my PR skills. Being aware that I tend to be this way, and knowing the real cause (trauma, rather than “illness”) is certainly a help. However, nothing has yet to solve the insomnia I have suffered from for four years now. I am truly suffering and the constant exhaustion I suffer from is putting a complete roadblock in front of me. I believe this is solvable. All I can do is to hope for some answers.

    I have learned that acknowledgement of trauma will prevent this suffering. That was what I was lacking. Not only was the trauma denied, but my friends left me over it and I was at a point for months on end with not only no companionship, no friends nor family, but no spoken conversation. A silent world. I think that would lead any human to end up in the condition I found myself in. Animals recover from trauma on their own, but humans need comfort and acknowledgement, and to have their basic physical needs met.

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  • Thanks. I laugh over how honesty has gotten me into far more trouble than the occasional lie I had to tell to save my hide from psych incarceration. I say this knowing we are all aware of how simplistically they think. As patients, we learned to cover our tracks. Mention of certain words, no matter how benign the statement, can for sure catapult into THEIR overreaction. “Thanks, doc, I feel terrific,” translates to mania, for instance. And if any of us are poets, we often get in trouble for our poetry, given that the #1 favorite topic for poems is death. Loving life means you can write a killer poem on the topic of death, but shrinks are in such a hurry (now that medical care is like an assembly-line) that I suspect they memorize keywords and do a mental quick-scan of what we say and then, based on no reasoning, no intuition, no common sense, decide we are hopeless nutcases.

    Does honesty pay? I believe the truth wins out…though we do have to be mighty patient and persistent.

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  • I just saw this in the newsletter and decided to have a look. I didn’t end up experiencing psychosis and was envious of those who were capable of hearing voices. But I did get psych labeled with schizoaffective, for convenience I suppose.

    I started school early and was for certain younger than the rest of the class. My parents agreed that this would be the right thing. They didn’t want me bored. I learned to speak and read at an early age. My mother told me that she was with a piano teacher friend of hers who heard me singing as a toddler and told my mother I had musical talent, that maybe she should consider music lessons for me. I believe before I was to start kindergarten, my mother took me to meet with our school principle. I recall this meeting, in fact. She showed me diagrams and asked me questions.

    I was told I was going to first grade. I was too young to ask why or understand. My mother told me that on the first day of school, while other children clung anxiously to their parents, I squealed with delight, and eagerly ran off to play with the others without looking back nor saying goodbye to my mother.

    The result? I ended up excelling academically. However, being younger, I was less mature than my peers. I was the shortest kid in the class throughout grade school. Being short means you are always looking up at others. I got used to it. Did I get teased? Oh my goodness, mercilessly! I do not find it difficult nor painful to remember this, it is simply an observation (with a bit of laughter, looking back at the tricks played on me).

    Junior high was problematic as the other girls were going after boys and I had no desire to do so. This created a dilemma for me. I didn’t like the teasing and pressure. Finally, I told myself that to get them off my back I’d tell them that yes, I did like a boy named Alex. They pressured me into giving him a note, which I placed into his hand when I saw him in the hallway. Alex’s noninterest in me led to more jeering from the girls.

    I started school young for a reason. Being “smart” led to more teasing, except when the other kids wanted the answers to the exams, when suddenly I was in demand. I never liked that, so I started dumbing down everything I did and said. I was ashamed, and hid that I was smart.

    A friend of mine who grew up in a different generation told me his experience was identical. He told me he was insulted because he was smart, and became ashamed, and eventually, hid it so that he could avoid the hostility.

    College meant I was still underage when my friends weren’t. They snuck me into the campus bars, and into the theater once to see x-rated movies. I was still the shortest in my peer group.

    Decades later, my mother told me that she and my dad regretted starting me early. She said I would have had more confidence had I been around kids of my own maturity level.

    Did any of this cause my so-called mental illness? I would say most likely not. My childhood was relatively ordinary. I’d say this is the reason:

    I WALKED INTO A SHRINK’S OFFICE. Why didn’t I go to some other type of office? It was a crapshoot. The town nutritionist was a personal friend, so I chose shrinkage.

    That, and not much more. I’d say getting labeled and living as a labeled person was the abuse that did the most harm. The rest gave me endless humorous stories to write.

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  • Is it too soon to expect any studies out there on PTSD FROM psych abuse? Surely, there are thousands who are suffering this, yet the trauma centers refuse to list this trauma among the many possibilities (though they list all the ones that are far more unlikely, such as earthquakes, terrorist attacks, etc.). Far more people are abused in hospitals and in therapy than ever see serious scary stuff from an earthquake. I cannot imagine walking into a therapist’s office without getting scared. In fact, any time I have to sit in a waiting room (such as waiting at the electric company to do paperwork) I get the shivers remembering shrinkage. I still flinch at the sight of a hospital and I get scared when I see an ambulance. Thankfully, the sight and sound of ambulances and rushing police is a rarity here in Uruguay. If ever I see a shrink, even in a You-Tube, and see their beards, their impeccable suits, their tans (straight off the golf course) and think about their smug attitudes, I feel my blood boil. How can such a thing possibly be resolved? All I can do is to try to hide away from shrinks and hope I never see one again, nor have to hear the sound of their voices nor bow down to their ideas. I don’t think all shrinks have bad intentions, but if you have been traumatized, it’s hard to not feel terrified. Would you expect someone who has been bitten by a dog to be able to instantly say, “Not all dogs are bad” and run out and befriend the nice ones? Not likely, until they somehow get over the fear. I know generalizing is illogical, but a person is only protecting him/herself.

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  • Hello, I want to add that for those out there who were duped into taking lithium and are now experiencing kidney disease, there are a variety of resources out there. These run the gamut so if you don’t like what you see, look elsewhere. I have read, from what appears reputable, that “kidney disease” is invariably progressive, that nothing can be done to stop the progression, that you are bound to reach Stage Five and then you have to choose between a transplant if you can get one or dialysis and rotten quality of life.

    From what I know, though, there is no kidney disease. It’s not an actual disease. It’s a set of various kidney problems that might cause the kidneys to function at a lesser than optimal way. There are various types of physical damage to kidneys, some that is from past infection, some from drugs such as lithium, some from structural problems present at birth, Therefore, to say that “kidney disease is always progressive” is a sweeping generalization that isn’t helpful to kidney patients.

    The alternative is to consult other sources. I mean ask your friends, go to forums, listen to actual stories. Then, you will hear hope. I heard a story recently about a woman who had to have a kidney removed (not due to lithium but due to hereditary problem), but the doctor left in a tiny piece of it. Guess what happened? She didn’t even know it, but after a few years, that darned thing grew, as if it were a seed someone had planted. “Sure enough, Jack woke up and there was the Beanstalk, leading all the way to Heaven.” When she had to have an ultrasound (this was done by someone who had no clue about her prior surgery) she was surprised to hear that her two kidneys were now nearly identical in size. Did she follow a special diet? Nope. Did she quit smoking and drinking? Nope. She is a creative person, and she has a good sense of humor. Beyond that, she has no explanation, except she didn’t go the “appointments” route.

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  • Is anyone else colorblind? I am extremely nearsighted by inheritance. My eye doctor was concerned that while I was on meds my eyes were changing rapidly. Off meds, not rapidly and he was much relieved. BTW in Boston try Kevin Kaufman, which might be spelled Kaufmann. He takes care/caid, too. My only complaint is that he tends to be rushed. But I feel he has good expertise and many trust him explicitly. His advice has been excellent, especially when I had double vision. He said not to go to prisms. Turned out to be from a pill, of course. Lamictal. Anyway, as for the colorblindness, it is a HUGE nuisance for me. I actually have to apologize all the time since I often have no clue what color a thing is, and not knowing the language here it ends up awkward. I can tell bright orange and that’s about the only thing of which I am entirely certain. That and a granny smith apple. Unless it’s rotten. I have fun joking about it, and while I had double vision I joked that my bank account doubled, too. Too bad that ended.

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  • Oh my goodness I never had bad pimples as an adolescent, but as a 26 year old right up through age 38, I looked as though I were in the height of adolescence. My whole face, or sometimes, only 1/2 my face, was covered with acne from lithium. That alone made me unable to get a job. Not only that, but I was jeered at by shrinks over and over and one PCP said I was “dirty.” None of them considered it might be the lithium. All mental patients back then had pimples. And almost all were overweight from the drugging and were told we were lazy because we were out of work.

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  • My issue, with many of these “treatments” is not what happened, but the subsequent coverup of that harm that was the greater harm. If they truly considered me a worthwhile human being, then they would have been honest and said, “We made a grave error,” or, “We did something totally unnecessary,” or, “We were deceitful,” and, “What you are experiencing is a direct result of what we did to you.” Instead, I got more bogus diagnoses to cover up the harms from “treatment.” The later treatments were for the coverup diagnoses, so I never needed them. This is what happens when you are in the System too long. I feel that this is pretty much the norm for most of us lifers.

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  • Yes, Duane, this is what my mother was arguing when I was first put on Lithium and she herself saw that I had improved, and also, she noted that no one was listening to what I was saying about WHY I had improved. I was trying to tell them at Gould Farm that the lithium carbonate stopped my binge eating, so to me, it was like a miracle pill. Not only did they say, “That’s not possible,” but they claimed I never had ED. My mother argued that Li is a trace element and maybe I even needed it. What she never told anyone was that she herself had suffered the exact same ED that I had had when she was a teen, so you’d figure she would relate somehow. The Farm claimed I had made a remarkable recovery and seemed “stable,” however, I was thrilled to be able to eat without fear of bingeing. I read a number of recent studies stating that Li is indeed effective for some binge eaters. They also noted that most gain on lithium and I lost weight. They had no explanation. So there, Gould Farm! I am still in shock that over three decades they never took me seriously.

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  • Freeme, you can write to me anytime at [email protected] and I am not on Facebook because I freely admit I get insanely jealous of other people on there who are more successful and far more “loved” than I am. I dislike comparing myself in that manner and seeing all those smiling families, so I quit and felt better right away.
    Julie

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  • Hello Freeme, Wow do I ever hear you about the “they never listened nor believed me” part so I will respond to that. I, too, did not have a mood disorder and now suffer insomnia from PTSD due to psych abuse that began in 2011, funny, right after abuse in Massachusetts General Hospital. I love to name the hospital! Why not? The immediate accusation was “mania,” yet I had absolutely no signs of mania! I am a person who spoke repeatedly of “eating disorder” and was never heard nor believed for over three decades. Recently, I phoned a previous provider and she STILL doesn’t believe me, she said, “But what about your bipolar?” I was saddened by this, realizing that for five years she was clueless as to what I was really experiencing on a daily basis. She asked me, “What about all those stuffed animals you had?” Geez. I feel for you. I wish I could at least give you a hug. I even had a doctor say I was lying about my insomnia, that I was totally delusional and that if I truly slept that little for so long, I’d be dead. Hmmm…..I guess I am dead, then! Maybe that’s why shrinks treated me like I was sub-human. Cuz I’m dead. Logical, right? I sure feel tired, like the walking dead, cuz I am! Stephen King, can you write a better horror story than this? Dear Freeme, I sure wish I could help. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was from a lawyer, who told me, “I think you need to gather up as many allies as you can.” That was maybe January 2014. Another excellent piece of advice came from an alternative shrink (not a person who identifies with the movement per se but trauma based) around early September 2013, who said, “Go find the others who have an experience similar to yours. They are out there.” Within days, I found MIA. It was a start for me. Other than that, most “advice” you get from folks isn’t too useful. Trust yourself more than anyone else, since that’s what you have, when all else fails. Yourself and your dog. Others leave. There are so many shams and broken promises that you cannot count on anything but your own heart. You never part with yourself. Hold on tight. That, to me, is so amazing.

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  • I heard that alcoholism was in the liver, that alcoholics process alcohol differently in the liver than non alcoholics which might explain why this runs in families. Was there any validity to this research? I’m the epitome of non-alcoholic myself and can’t say it does much for me one way or the other, and I find it makes me feel ill instead of drunk. However, I’ve seen addiction to all sorts of things, including nail-biting, certain shopping habits, soap operas, meditation, and lying. Is there no difference between “addiction” and “habit” or is it the terminology we use, one sounding like pathological “disease,” and one sounding like repetitive action? They say an eating disorder can be an addiction. I suffer from ED myself and I don’t see it that way since I see it as nutritional.

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  • Whoever just left the comment on eating disorders, I can’t even find it right now. I just want to let you know my blog is at juliemadblogger.wordpress.com but I had to make it disappear for now due to privacy reasons. I will be back, just not sure when. I am still blogging but no one can see the posts right now. I don’t know where your comment went nor who you are. I also quit facebook and don’t plan on rejoining. The reason is that I am prone to jealousy. I hate seeing how successful other people are, how loved others are, and how unloved I am, and honestly, I dislike comparing myself to other people and judging myself by facebook’s ugly standards. I wish I had family, mostly. This is the biggest heartbreak of my life, that the System lied to my family about 20 years ago. Also, I made the mistake of joining eating disorders communities. I ended up getting bullied. Why? For fighting for patient rights! Seriously! Also, my new book got accepted for publication but I told my publisher I am putting it on hold until I find a home. I am facing possible homelessness right now. I have no place to go. Also, my last book didn’t sell. I am so shocked over this. Seeing all those zeros was too much for me. I don’t want to publish another no-sell. People tell me publish anyway, but they aren’t writers! Thanks so much for your support. Can you please tell me your name and who you are? You said you are in Australia. My contact info is [email protected]. Thank you.

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  • For whatever reason, I missed the comments to this article all this time, so I apologize. I am awfully glad I found them. In the interim, I was quietly involved in a court case about a year ago in which a hospital illegally tried to acquire land by claiming it was an educational institution. The citizens found my blog and decided they did not want a kiddie prison on their land, so they investigated and noted that the hospital was doing it all illegally. I sent an affidavit and the case was thrown out even before it made it to court. There was no case, and the sale didn’t go through. All I can say is nyah nyah. However, I have been fighting for the rights of these patients all this time, and the patients didn’t get this. They thought the townspeople were “stigmatizing” them. Not true. The townspeople didn’t agree that young people should be treated with force. They agreed with me that kindness was a better approach.

    Thanks so much for continuing this thread because it restores my faith in humanity. Life it tough.

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  • You want my honest opinion? I’m 57 and I’ve lived in South America now a year. Here, I believe for economic reasons, people can’t afford doctors and so we just buy the drugs we want. No prescription. No doctor controls your life. Do people abuse drugs? Not really. People use herbs a whole lot, and marijuana is legal. This town has 7,000 people in it, probably one psychologist, and no psychiatrists at all. You can buy vino in any store and it’s cheaper than soda, though I don’t like it myself. There are more pet dogs than people, and no, I have never found statistics to prove that one. I’m guessing in this tiny town there are five vet offices and ten vets working overtime in them. Drugs are cheap. I think most adults can decide for themselves and don’t need “doctor” to make that decision. Ask your spouse if you need help, or your pals. They’re a better judge than some stuffy dude you meet with for ten minutes who is is a rush who only wants to hear about “symptoms.” Especially now that medicine in USA is done assembly-line style and is all hooked into “insurance.” Here in Uruguay I can buy any drug I want, though at first, I felt shy about it., not knowing the language at all when I arrived. I purchase very few altogether but it’s a comfort knowing that if I need something I am not fingerprinted and “doctor approval” is never needed. USA should have similar freedom. Buy ’em like vitamins. I always dreaded the day CVS “tracked” people and I went in there, swiped my CVS card, bought a bottle of, say, fish oil, and the auto machine said in a loud voice, YOUR SHRINK DISAPPROVES. GO TO JAIL AND DO NOT COLLECT $200. I am glad I deal in pesos now.

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  • Yes, it’s complicated. My beloved boyfriend jumped off the roof while in withdrawal from alcohol cold turkey. He got a lifelong psych diagnosis he never should have been given, and died at 45 in 2003 from the drugging. He died 17 years sober, and, God bless him, helped many other drunks get sober. He was a paraplegic when I met him Thanksgiving weekend 1986. We were 28. Of course, “staff” told us it would never work, but we dated anyway, and stayed together all those years. I realized nine years after his death that he, too, had had undiagnosed diabetes insipidus. We used to “drink” together, mostly water or soda or iced coffee. The day he died, I had just ordered tickets for the two of us for a minor league baseball game. We had been many times. He always told me he wanted to catch a baseball in his hands, and give to a child, just to see that child smile. That was the kind of man he was.

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  • Sascha, I personally respect your decision. I, too, was not a zombie on lithium. However, I am clueless to this day as to how for 27 years they never figured out that I had diabetes insipidus. How could that be when I informed them of constant thirst and they saw me drinking that much? And after my kidney function began to drop, for roughly two years, while it was under 40%, I was never informed. After my acute renal failure and full code, this, too, was deliberately hidden from me and I found out because I found papers by accident. Since then, I have met many other patients who have had information regarding lithium deliberately hidden from them. I believed I was taking it with informed consent. However, I wasn’t. I did ask many questions and I am a highly intelligent person. I did not have a guardian. There was no reason to hide any of it from me that I can tell. I am not deaf and I am able to speak and communicate in the same language as my treators. I’m stumped, except that maybe they just thought I was “mentally incompetent” or, sadly, “just not worth it.”

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  • Someone here posted that he had gotten his former providers to pay for treatment to treat the damages done by ECT. Can I ask how this was done? I have such bad insomnia that has been now verified as directly the result of trauma from abuse in the hospital four years ago. I changed after that and have been unpleasant to be around and snap at people due to contstant fatigue. i always knew this was the case but my shrink insisted I had “mania.” I want my former provider to pay for whatever I need to help the constant “fight or flight” reaction I now have that is now prevemting me from working and leading a productive life. the insomnia has been plaguing me consistently. If I can get a cost estimate, I might even be able to find a go-between person who can contact them. But I am wondering how to mediate and if the courts need to be involved in such an agreement. I want them to pay out of pocket and I want a formal apology and also a vow never to abuse again. I want to see sognificant moral change in these people in a way that affects society as a whole. They might call it “community service,” but I see it as “changing their ways” in some radical way. Going out and helping poor people, I mean, really, not just donating money, but since they’re shrinks, who are supposedly compassionate, sitting out in the cold and helping them and listening to them like they were supposed to do with me but failed to do, clearly. I don’t recall who here did that in regards to their ECT but it sounded original and quite effective. I hope you are subscribed to this thread.

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  • I don’t think we should be throwing out genetics. For instance, as a few of you might know, my main complaint was an eating disorder. In fact, until psych got its hands on me, it was my only complaint. (I sure wish MIA would pay more attention to ED since it is a serious problem that more people die of than schiz or bipolar or depression, but that’s another story. More die of psychiatry!) Anyway, if a person’s “mental illness” (depression, bipolar, ADHD, or whatever) came from, say, increased need for one of the B Vitamins, or perhaps hypoglycemia, both of which can run in families, then family history, or what can be gleaned from memory, is vital. My mother’s anorexia, I believe, originated from hypoglycemia. From what I can gather, she had it between 1940 and 1942 and cured it on her own with the loving support of her two sisters. I truly believe I inherited the precise same eating disorder, never mind I looked exactly the same as my mother! Trust me, this embarrassed me all my life! The worst was when I had my Bat Mitzvah and all the aunts pinched my cheeks and reminded me of it. When she became elderly, my brother received frantic calls from her neighbors, telling him that they’d seen her wandering around, seeming confused, disoriented, and dizzy. That’s when I remembered. After a few horrendous Yom Kippur holiday bouts of illness, her doctor had given her very strict orders: Don’t fast again, and never skip a meal. That’s the moment I figured it out. I believe that low blood sugar and forgetting to eat contributed to her early dementia.

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  • I believe this is such a vital story that truly needed to be told, so thank you, Jim, for telling it so eloquently. I believe the lesson can be applied in many areas of our lives. DO NOT SELL OUT. This question was debated a bit in undergrad, as writing students. Do we write what will sell? Do we research the market like mad to ensure that our next book will be the Great Bestseller? In grad school, this question was never on the table. Be yourself. To write meant to tell the truth. This in fact became part of my unspoken oath the day I graduated. Likewise, following graduation, much of my disappointment in humanity had to do with my own observation of mass SELLING OUT I saw around me. I saw many terrific nonprofits accept pharma money and then offer poor quality or no service. I noted that “treatment” centers professing to be “alternative” had sacrificed their ideals for Medicaid funding. Many schools, colleges, children’s organizations, and even restaurants sold out to Big Money and shallow values.

    Jim, you alls did the right thing. Do not support those that sell out. I can tell you I know, as do us all, that sinking feeling I had in my heart I had a couple of years ago when I recognized that another terrific local nonprofit in Boston had gone that way. It was the sound of a woman’s voice on the phone. She didn’t give a shit.

    And perhaps you may have done what I did. We all do it. We get curious about former providers. Those young, ambitious residents. The ones so green they still have their innocence. They are so inexperienced that we recall teaching them a few things. I remember this one guy who was so energetic that my late boyfriend said to me one day, “Jules, I think he is a preppie. Next time you see him, ask him if he went to prep school. It takes one to know one.”

    I did. Dr. B said to me, “How did Joe know?”

    I said, “It takes one to know one.” Dr. B was human enough to laugh.

    Now, some 20 years later, he doesn’t look much different, but he’s another sellout. Very sad.

    Don’t sell out. Don’t support those organizations that sell out. Be true to yourself. What is real and authentic will win out.

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  • I was given lithium for the following reason:
    “We don’t know what else to try. What the heck! Give it to Julie! She’ll try anything!” That capsule might as well have been Life Cereal, and I might have been Mikey. Little Miss Compliant.

    Either way, I did not have bipolar. I was at Gould Farm at the time, having been enslaved there following a suicide attempt. I told them I had an eating disorder. Upon my arrival, they told me they didn’t treat eating disorders. They said, “That’s okay, you look depressed. We will treat you for that.” Then, they filed paperwork for me for disability. On the form, the psychiatrist wrote schiz simply because that’s what he put on everyone’s form. I’m rather sure of that, since we know now how much he hated paperwork. We also learned about four years later that he’d been practicing without a medical license for years.

    By then, my thyroid had shut down and I had diabetes insipidus. He had been fired from Gould Farm and had fled the state. In his wake, there were two suicides that I knew of. I don’t believe the victim’s families were ever informed. I don’t know if there were subsequent suicides that I never found out about or in his private practice. It took the psychiatric people 27 years after that to stop claiming I had “psychological polydipsia” and come to their senses. They finally figured out that I had had diabetes insipidus all along. They continued to accuse me of faking my need for water, and continued to bully me until my kidneys failed and I almost died in mid-2013. Is this not gross malpractice, one event after another?

    My mind is made up. It is confirmed that the insomnia I have is due to trauma from the abuse that I endured while inpatient at Mass General and another hospital in Boston. More malpractice. I am going to demand that these folks that did the worst of the abuse pay for the treatment that I now need to resolve the trauma and get a good night’s sleep. I intend to demand that they pay out of pocket. And apologize. As for Charles Capers, the Gould Farm doctor that was wild with the prescription pad, I have no clue if he’s alive. Maybe his estate will pay.

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  • I’m very happy this article has come out. I was just here to MIA to look up another article and found this. I”ve been trying to get together a group of lithium survivors. Maybe a mailing list where we can bounce ideas around. I tried asking on facebook but I am not on facebook anymore. If you are interested you can email me [email protected] (okay to publish my addy here) or just post here how you feel about such a list.

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  • Well that explains it. My mom told me I was excellent at concentrating throughout my childhood. I was also sent to school on my bicycle. Driving kids to school was unheard of, as was ADHD. My nephews, on the other hand, grew up on XBox. If they were good, they got lots of it, if they were bad, it was taken away. I’m told they gave one of the kids “required” pills early on. I was told, “It was obvious he needed them,” and that, “he’s normal on them.” And as the years went on, more XBox. The few times I was allowed to visit, maybe twice in a decade, I couldn’t stand the sound and flashing light of that thing. Now, no contact, sadly. I grieve for my lost kids.

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  • I can’t believe this is even “news.” Learning specialists have known this for decades. So psychiatry is that far behind learning specialists? Learning specialists study how people learn, which when I was in elementary school. was vital, in fact. Each of us kids got tested early on. I believe parents were informed of where their child stood in terms of what their child’s strong points were and what the best approaches were. This included the basics, such as “which is the dominant hand?” How can arbitrarily rating your mental state on a scale of one to ten be more important than using your learning style to thrive in work and school? I knew classmates who got to college and did fine, since they already knew that they only way they could do well in academia was to chew gum and listen to loud music while cramming at the last minute for five exams simultaneously, much as it drove a few of us nuts. And yes, they did fine and are now working jobs. This was because back then, kids were honored and respected for who they were. We’re all crazy after all these years. I should hope so.

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  • I have done experiments, too, though quite by accident. I had the exact same knee injury twice, but the first time was at an extremely high weight (approximately twice what I should weigh) and the second time, when I was extremely thin. I also saw a doctor when I was at closer to “normal” weight. Each of the three doctors gave me three different diagnoses. I described the injury in exactly the same way. The first knew about my psych dx. I came in using a wheelchair and I was so heavy I barely fit into it. I couldn’t even stand up. They offered no solutions. They said that since I had no transportation to get to physical therapy, there was no hope for me, and they sent me home in a cab.

    After I stopped Seroquel I lost quite a bit of weight and I saw another doctor. I didn’t tell him about my psych history. He didn’t notice I was on public insurance. He wanted to operate and called me once a month for the next few years reminding me of his offer. $$$$$. However, by then, I could walk okay.

    A few years later, I was extremely underweight and the knee injury came back. I went to another orthopedist. He told me I would never walk nor run again.

    I walked out of his office. I year later I was able to run again just fine, and now, I am 57 years old, I walk my dog daily, haven’t driven a car for decades, and can easily run 10k and more. Not one of those doctors was a runner. I’d like to kick them all in their Nortamericano behinds right now and give ’em a run for their money.

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  • BTW, the biggest moral injury is the first one that happens nowadays since it has to in order for them to bill patients. Diagnosis. This instantly becomes the lens through which they see us. The stakes of that crime get higher as soon as the family starts seeing their designated sick one through that lens, and then, sadly, the small circle of friends, the school or college, or the workplace, and even worse, the entire community. This buildup can take decades. For me, since I am a writer and by OATH will not stop writing the truth (that’s why I have a degree in it) I ended up publicly known for my writing about madness. After that, I got threatened for my blogging by my shrinks and then, the witch hunt that frankly, I am still rather shocked over. I am 57 years old, I’ve seen the Middle East, I’ve been in mental wards over 50 times, I’ve nearly starved to death, I’ve been in a state institution, I’ve hitch-hiked across the country, but never ever in my life have I been through a witch-hunt like I endured in Watertown MA in 2012-2014 and the various Boston area medical corporate institutions, and I would never wish that on anyone. All this began, innocently enough, because I went to a therapist in 1981, told her I had a problem with my eating, and since no one had ever heard of eating disorders nor did anyone understand that they were incredibly serious, I was told, “If you want anyone to help you, we’ll give you our standard treatment for any of our assorted brain disorders. Otherwise, you’re a spoiled rich Jewish American Princess complaining about nothing. Go back to your rich parents.” I went to their therapy, where they hauled my parents in and told all of us we were defective because we were Jews. And took a lot of my parents money. For that, my brothers blame me and no longer speak to me, but of course, I didn’t mastermind all that nor want it to happen. I only wanted help with my eating back in 1981, which, after 30 years and all that, including the witch hunt, remained unsolved.

    To demonstrate all this, I phoned up an ex-therapist two days ago. I knew her 20 years ago. Just to say hi. Her immediate assumption was that I was calling for “help.” I wasn’t. But then, after I explained to her where I was living, she assumed, “mania.” She can’t get it out of her head. She said, finally, “If you find that your thoughts are confusing or racing, go to an emergency room or call a therapist.” Does she have any clue that I have never been manic in my life? Yet, she had this lens that she never removed from her eyes. Me too, back then. I had put those glasses of bipolar on, and also rated my normal moods on a scale of one to ten. For years, everyone, my parents included, was obsessed with that one to ten scale. My parents enjoyed acting like cheerleaders, too. What a life. What a waste.

    I have people in my life I cannot even speak to anymore because they don’t seem to be capable of seeing me as anything but “diagnosis.” Only to them, it’s some other diagnosis, many of the others that were given to me over the years. They refuse to see me as human. When it gets to the point everything I say is “only a symptom of mental illness” and ends up dismissed with eye-rolling or other rudeness, I give up and call it quits. I am very tired of feeling the need to qualify everything I say with, “Others feel the same way,” or, “I’m not the only one who has experienced this,” in desperate attempt to avoid yet another accusation of paranoia just for talking about human rights.

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  • Ben, such a thing by all means is not uncommon and you are not alone. There was a very famous case that was quite close to home for me that happened I believe sometime in the 1990’s. I had a shrink who worked in the same office or nearby to another female shrink, an MD, who had an affair with one of her patients. The patient was a medical student but I might be remembering incorrectly on that. Sadly, it all ended in his suicide. The truth of the affair came out. She got nailed! I am sure I knew this female shrink, saw her in that office, maybe interacted with her, a brief nod of the head, a “hello” now and then, and maybe she picked up the phone if my own shrink was out. If I recall correctly they didn’t work together, they only had offices close to each other or adjacent. My shrink retired ages ago. I don’t know if she did prison time or got her licence pulled o r only a slap on the wrist. None of this will bring her patient back. It was a famous case. I myself had a female therapist who seduced me, or tried to over a long period. And I saw a therapist marry a client. I also saw a female client who was tormented over her past affair with her female therapist, way back around 1980. Why do these therapists do this to people? This ruins a person’s life for a good long time, since we put our trust in them and we even pay them. They have so much power, legally, medically, everything. And then, all they do is call us crazy. No one believes us even though we are telling the truth. There’s no recourse.

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  • Thanks so much, Tina. To this day, I get so little validation, and so many people doubt my word, even many in the “movement.” I cannot believe I have a master’s degree in writing that I cannot use since people only see me as a worthless nutcase. Again, this includes many in the “movement.” I feel I have some rather important and unique things to say that have not already been said, but no one’s listening nor will give me a chance. I have written eight books and two of them are published. The second was very good, as it was my creative master’s thesis. It didn’t sell cuz I had no friends nor family in 2012, and no one would even buy it. They kept saying, “It couldn’t possibly be a good book,” I asked them if they’d read it, and they said they hadn’t. So I asked them how they knew. I’ve never heard more excuse making in my life. I also realize that absolutely no one has any obligation to read nor purchase a book.

    I was just offered a contract for my next book. So I am so scared to sign it for fear that the book won’t sell. I don’t think I can take another failure. I don’t think I can take another End of Year report filled with zeros, and asking myself, “Where have all my friends gone?” Also, I don’t think I can take another trip through my address book, looking at the lengthy list of people who now refuse to speak to me.

    I just put rice on, breakfast for my dog, only to find out my hotplate is broken. None of the stores have hotplates for sale. I figured out another way to cook her breakfast this morning. This is an inconvenience, not a problem. To me, the big problems in life are the deep loneliness caused by psych abuse, loss of family, loss of reputation, total degradation, loss of personhood, complete loss of credibility, loss of voice, loss of confidence, repeatedly seen as a bunch of symptoms, refusal to be honored as ARTIST, loss of Freedom of Speech, trauma, and so on. These are problems. The rest I don’t give much thought to.

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  • Hi Someone else, I can’t get to the link right now, but would love to check it out. I’m not sure why MIA links are redirecting but I have let the site owners know. I do know there are hackers out there who can easily do such a thing, I suppose, hired by those we are vehemently opposed to.

    I agree that for the most part, our complaints are deliberately ignored. One person can easily be called delusional, or told “You were an exception.” We need to encourage others to speak out. You can heal so many “illnesses” by asserting yourself by refusing to be silent. Speaking out en masse has the advantage of credibility. For instance, if a facility regularly breaks a certain human rights law, and only one patient speaks out, then it’ assumed the other patients don’t mind being treated like crap. A silent majority is assumed to be a satisfied one. The authorities regularly make this claim knowing the logic is faulty. The silent majority is scared. To act together is safer and less scary for those who have been silent. Actually, gang violence works the same way. People wouldn’t ordinarily beat on someone, but to beat on a person as a group allows for the protection of the crowd. Right or wrong, the group members can cover each other’s asses. A person may or may not walk in the street carrying a sign regarding gay pride, yet once a year Gay Pride Day is a safety in numbers day for folks of all sexualities to be quite deliberately visible. This is how I see it.

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  • Thanks for responding, Ted. I am thinking that many people aren’t as in love with the writing process as I am. To make things easier for the less prolific, we can have forms for people to fill out that would easily be transferable to complaint forms. And we can present this as something that will hopefully bring gratification. What if we demanded a formal apology, that is, if every single complaint ended with that request? A real apology, not “We are sorry you didn’t like it,” but to say something like, “We NOW realize the deep harms we caused. We deeply and sincerely apologize and will work to end future harms to patients.” So not only an apology, but restorative justice. If we can get five shrinks, either abusive therapists or other practitioners that use force or psych dx or other abuses, to turn their lives around and following “First do no harm,” instead, imagine the impact it would have on MH “care”! It’s a very tiny percentage of the thousands we’d send in, but we gotta make a dent in this thing. This would help patients make up their minds, too. so many are stuck in the “help” trap.

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  • I got an idea. I have filed numerous abuse reports and as you folks all know, these reports go nowhere. My idea is that we all file reports all at once. This would be all done in one day, all over the world wherever possible. This can be timeless. We are still affected by what happened, even decades later. So what if every state and every country, all on one day, got thousands of reports. Some of us who were subject to multiple abuses could file as many reports as necessary to cover all that happened. And many of us would have to prepare ahead since it’s a lot of writing! We can together write of trauma, and also those measurable damages that allow for lawsuits. The state offices would be so overwhelmed with reports that certainly there would be some reaction. And remember, there’s safety in numbers. What if I or someone put up an article in MIA suggesting this protest, setting a date somewhat in advance so folks would know? We could have Facebook pages for each state and country. Imagine just the red tape alone overwhelming these offices? If anyone wants writing feedback I am more than willing to help out with that. These will be legal documents but we can still write passionately about our experiences. Honestly telling a story will be very powerful. I think also doing this might be rather satisfying and provide release for many of us on a personal level. On the same day, we can put up You-Tubes too, and speak out on other social media. We need to be unified and support one another on this. What do people think?

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  • And Moses said, “Let my people go.” I think that one worked, quite some time ago. We need to drum up some rather creative ten plagues. The truth alone will part the waters.

    Later, the Afikoman. Only to be honest, I can’t recall what on earth was done with it once it got found. Every single time, our grandpa hid it inside the piano, but we never remembered from one year to the next. By then, most of us kids had run off or fallen asleep. Next year, in Jerusalem.

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  • Christopher, that’s so awesome. I can add that I’ve been suicidal three times in my life. Considering my history in their System spanned over three decades, that’s not that many times. The first could be attributed to either Imipramine or to complete incompetence on the part of my treators. To me, the absolute most painful emotion we ever experience in our relationships is not grief or loss, but betrayal. I was betrayed by my shrink, who had been lying to me for a year. The shock of realization came fast and I was a young person then. The third time was definitely from Imipramine, which I took for a few months from 2011 till early 2012. However, the second time was a RESULT of ECT. And also betrayal, since I was being lied to about how much the ECT contributed to my decrepit state. I didn’t understand what had happened nor why I was suddenly different. It was so prolonged, over a year and a half, that I had no clue if I would ever return to my usual self. Clearly, they would rather lock me up in State to keep me quiet than admit fault.

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  • I went to one who was known to be an alcoholic. Yes, you could smell it on him. He was excused from all his bad behavior, including smoking around oxygen tanks, by nurses who bowed down to him and called him “doctor.” Then, when I thought I’d seen it all, I sat there across from him as his “patient,” and I saw him grimace. Yep, I thought it was my imagination. Then, again and again. His mouth jerking off to the side. I thought he was having seizures but was too scared to alert the nurse. I kept seeing him do that. His hands jerked sometimes, too. Of course, now, I know what it was. Tardive Dyskinesia. So I suppose the rumors were true that he took the medicines he prescribed to his patients. He retired rich. No one said a word. That was maybe January 1986.

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  • Ted I was thinking that we need armies of us to go into the shrinks’ offices and courtrooms and do what we just did. I remember countless times being in hospitals and arguing that what they were doing to me or to other patients was inhumane. They would surround me and not allow me to get a word in, continuously bullying me and telling me what they were doing was “care” and repeating that they were the “experts” and I was stupid. They finally had to resort to saying I lacked insight just to make sure the nurses didn’t pay the least attention to me. I saw them roll their eyes every time I tried to speak to them. I was treated like kindergarten. They were soul-killers. Would love it if a bunch of us could go bully a shrink because surely, they lack insight if they can’t see that what they are doing is ruining lives, tearing families apart, and torturing people. Thousands of people now hate psychiatry. Could we all be wrong? I don’t think so.

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  • I agree that science arguments are probably wanted here at MIA. Look at the title, after all. We sufferers know that MH “care” does more than act on the brain. It’s so much more than drugging. It destroys a person’s soul. I wrote a blog entry today describing the entire turnaround that happened to me as a result of “day treatment.” I went through an entire conversion from successful student to chronic patient well before I took even one psych pill. Diagnosis, isolation, ghettoizing, social rejection, and of course inhumane treatment across the board, that seeps into every single area of life, is what destroys a person, and drugging, well, that’s peripheral and really distracting us from what the real problem is. I am not too keen on debating with people who desire to get off drugs but still are hellbent on the idea that they have a mental illness. I believe these diagnoses trivialize real human suffering. Belief in psych diagnosis will only result in a torturous, and most likely unsuccessful withdrawal.

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  • Thanks, Ted, and anyone out there reading this. I have had an amazing number of positive and supportive responses. I say “amazing” since most of what I suggest or attempt to do falls flat. I’m well aware that the abundance of my dead projects and thwarted ambitions is caused by the fact that I don’t have social charisma nor expertise at finding reliable and consistent supporters. I have too many ideas as it is and not enough decades of life left to pursue and see them all to completion. I guess that leaves them out of the realm of practical and more as simply “dreams.” This idea, though, seems to be taking off, so I’m keeping at it. I’ll keep everyone posted. I am not on FB but can be contacted at [email protected].

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  • I think I am not explaining properly. This wouldn’t be an “online community.” This would be an edited journal. There wouldn’t be forums nor discussion following each work. This kind of thing wouldn’t be appropriate. A poem is not “right” or “wrong.” You don’t argue its validity. I would hope that if the poem is effective, it leave the readers awestruck. A good performance might lead to a rousing applause. A reader might enjoy laughing at a humor piece. But the art itself is already valid as is the voice of the one who created it. This will not be journalism, as is MIA. Good journalism will spark a healthy debate and points made are often arguable. In that sense this would not be alternative to MIA since it will be serving an entirely different purpose. I feel that this difference is why MIA is more a place to debate science than a place where actual survivor voices are wanted. I think this is why the “personal stories” section pretty much gets ignored. That’s why OUR OWN STORIES need a different venue, as they are not being heard here. In my opinion the site is overrun by too much brain science. This rather conflicts with our argument that it’s not just about the brain. I thought we wanted to get away from that. It’s old news and most of us know better than to even argue these things for too long.

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  • Thanks for asking, Ted. As soon as I mentioned it online, a number of people have approached me, mostly via email, asking about how they can help out or be of support in some way. I am in the rather preliminary stages, gathering together people who might desire to take on editorial roles and also people who can deal with the legal end and do publicity. I wrote up a brief mission statement and shared it with a few people. I was delighted that the feedback was completely supportive. My idea is not only to make this a survivors only publication, but also to have it be owned by survivors, much in the way that some community food coops are owned by hundreds of “members” who contribute a certain amount and can, if they wish, attend meetings and vote, shaping the future of the coop. I saw this in operation with a local food coop based in Cambridge, Massachusetts. It seemed also that there was an upper limit to how much they could expand and widen their market. This was evident to me when I noticed they closed a store not long after opening it. They realized that they had taken on too much. The meetings they had were well attended and there were many issues that needed to be addressed. Customer and member feedback were always held in high esteem and taken seriously. As far as “survivor only” goes, I wrote up a definition of survivor, making it as broad as I could. Each person would have to write up a one-time statement stating that they were a survivor. Emphasis would be on freedom of speech and a wide number of genres would be represented. We would include literature, art, even music and film since these can be embedded. So I would need editors who have expertise in certain genres or topics upon which I do not have adequate knowledge to shape those aspects of the magazine and make choices based on their backgrounds and expertise. I don’t want too much in each issue. I want no work to end up lost in the shuffle. Experiences of my peers generally are that when these online or print mags are in the baby stages, it’s very difficult to get any submissions at all. My friend told me his biggest nightmare was that his new magazine would get no submissions! It happens, and I have seen magazines fold rather quickly. That’s why I need many folks working together on this, including folks that are good with publicity. I don’t expect to make a cent on it but to feel very happy to create a space where we give ourselves our voices back. I also intend to include on the staff people who are currently incarcerated or trapped but who are committed to our cause. I feel that this is essential to represent those that are under oppression as well as those of us who have broken out. We are all breaking out, that’s what life is, continuously fighting to stay alive, live freely, and also get along. My wish is that for all of us, being involved in such a project will open doors and bring everyone hope and confidence. We will also send out a strong message in each issue. As far as themed issues goes, I need to think on that one. Oh, I don’t have a title yet. I haven’t even started thinking of one.

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  • Thanks, Ted. That’s a good reminder. I saw one last October but not as a patient. I told him to his face that psychiatry had harmed “a friend of mine” and for that reason, I refused to ever speak to one. He continued to do his job, trying to squeeze conversation out of me. He asked me what had happened to my friend. I replied that she died, that she had killed herself because of what psychiatry had done to her. I didn’t admit my own past association and 50+ hospitalizations and over three decades of work as slave to the System. That wasn’t necessary. I told him, “I have no respect for the psychiatric profession, and this conversation is over.” I have to laugh. The guy stomped off in a huff, with his medical students trailing behind. I will never forget that beard of his. Impeccable. No hair out of place.

    Round here, doctors tend to be informal, introducing themselves by first name. The medical doctor I met here actually sat down while conversing with bedridden patients, to ensure that he did not tower over them. He had come to Uruguay to get away from the medical regime in Germany. I was happy to teach him an estadosunidiense expression I know well. “Red tape.” I was thrilled hearing his attempts to use it in a sentence. That was where we met halfway.

    I’m still afraid of doctors and all they stand for, because of the abuse. I am not afraid to take my dog to the vet, though. Last September I had to bring Puzzle in there as she had just been bitten by another dog. She wouldn’t let anyone near the site of the injury. Dr. F, who goes by his first name, had to sedate her since it was necessary to examine the bite closely to see just how deep the puncture had gone. He felt around the wound very gently with his fingertips, and also used a stethoscope. Uh oh. I felt my body tighten up. I told myself, “I hope he doesn’t sling that thing around his neck.” He didn’t. He hung it back on the wall so I wouldn’t have to see it. That night, Puzzle cried in her sleep. The vet explained that she’d been in shock and also was suffering from trauma. He assured me that she would be okay.

    What the vet said was true. Puzzle is fine. I might have a mark on me, a sign here and there that I was harmed by psychiatry, but she has healed from the bite, and now, no scar is left.

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  • Precisely, Steve McRae, your point well taken and well expressed regarding depression. My feeling too, that the body is ignored while psychiatry tinkers with the brain alone. Depression is a whole-body response. So every organ and organ system is involved, right down to the skin. Many are parts of the body over which we do indeed have control, for instance, voluntary muscles. I believe, also, that our bodies react when put on the defensive in some way. I know as a long-time sufferer of eating problems I know my body braces itself for famine quite frequently, and also, for wild variations in appetite. I recently wrote about this. I don’t think there have been studies on this. If a person is driving to a late-night convenience store hellbent on buying food to binge on, the stomach is already preparing for a feast that is far larger than it can safely handle. The catch-22 is that the more gastric juices and activity, the more the appetite increases as the person drives toward the store. That’s why you see folks like me, looking wild-eyed in those stores, on edge and fearful. If you are a clerk, you see us late at night. As soon as we leave, if you are still eyeballing us, we are ripping open the packages and stuffing what we bought into our mouths. What no one knows nor recognizes is that our bodies drive us to an insane appetite level. I am sure depression works in a similar manner.

    It’s so much about the whole body and to remedy it, we can choose: Wait till it passes. Most people, caregivers included, assume that depression will last forever. Honestly, since I already had the dx of “rapid cycler,” why on earth was shock even suggested to me in 1995? I recall, though, the doctor’s words, “We need to get you our of here faster.” When I got home, I learned that I had very few lifetime Medicare days left, which explains why the next 15 or so hospitalizations at McLean were the fast track versions. When I ran out entirely, it meant state hospital. They told me I was too sick. I knew that they were tossing me out, the result of another failed experiment, a busted up human they needed to quickly hide, lest the patient or her parents “talk.”

    The other option is to decide you don’t want to wait. You change your life. Depression means our bodies aren’t pleased and want something else. They might want different food, a different environment, or to be surrounded by more or fewer humans. I feel that entrapment is usually the cause of depression, not the result, even though a person might feel trapped in a rotten mood. Going to a shrink will immediately entrap a person, as they are now under their “care” and their lives now run by a prescription pad. Often, they are already trapped in a relationship, parental oppression, or lousy job. When I had the shock, my dad, who was a NAMI monitor for MA state hospitals, suggested to me that the prison-like environment of McLean Hospital was so oppressive that it would, in itself, cause depression. He was right on.

    If anyone from the McLean staff is reading this right now, I want you to know that you failed to shut me up. You failed to hide from me what you really did. I am, indeed, talking. Loud and clear. My late dad would be so proud of me. I can see him smiling right now.

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  • As for expertise, as the others have stated, those of us who have endured these “treatments” are the only experts in this topic. While I am appreciative of those that choose to gather statistics that “prove” that psychiatry is no more justified than any other genocide, statistics can be argued fruitlessly and twisted around forever. I also appreciate the few scientists and medical people who risk their reputations and even their lives to stand up for those of us who have been disempowered. Without a doubt I appreciate those medical workers who dare to be whisleblowers, many of whom end up with psych labels and loss of license as a way for the establishment to discredit these vitally important reports. I feel that more credit is due to those of us experts, actual survivors of ECT, who have posted on here and who took risks to participate in the protests. The protests were so vital to our cause, honoring the voices of real survivors. We need more broadcasts, more publications, more websites, and more opportunities to have our voices heard. Lauren Tenney does a terrific job of this with her show, Talk with Tenney. I am no longer on Facebook but if anyone wants to continue dialogue with me privately I can be reached at [email protected].

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  • We need to look at other socially active communities out there and learn from them. Two communities that come to mind are the Autism/Asperger’s community, which seems to be well unified, and also the Deaf community. (Apologies if I have capitalized these in error, apparently there are policies and differences in meaning whether capitalized or not but I am not going to look it up right now.) I saw the National Theater for the Deaf when I was 18, well before I’d ever set foot in a therapist’s office. I believe this was summer of 1976. I was so impressed with the performance and realized that this reflected unity within the community of deaf folks. We psych survivor are not unified enough. There are various groups and all kinds of gurus and favoritism. I think we need to draw up guiding principles or use what was set forth in 1982 when it was called Patients’ Liberation. I think we also need to be more democratic. MIA is only one website. I think to level the playing field a bit we need more sites. If you are a survivor, then you know that being trapped in psych means they run your entire life, not just your brain, and the harms go far further than drugs. They tell you when to poop, for chrissake! They steal our souls, which is a far more destructive crime than damaging one organ. To state that this is about science and the brain only disregards the real crime. That’s why I am starting my own site where art, literature, poetry, and other forms of meaningful self-expression are honored. To state that art is not meaningful, important, nor effective communication trivializes the important work we do, and is in effect, silencing us. I don’t think those of us who loved Pete Seeger would agree that song isn’t an essential tool of communication. My hope is to give us our voices back, since most of us are still de-voiced and silent.

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  • I think Ted’s point is not whether or not ECT is okay, but how we can use this worldwide unified protest as a stepping stone to further activism. We can use this as a model for future protests. I see why ECT was chosen since it’s very much a no-brainer that it destroys wonderful, intelligent humans by damaging their brains, destroying their credibility (as I see here) and also tearing apart perfectly fine families. All I want to say is that survivor voices need to be upheld as THE expert viewpoint, and the only expert viewpoint, on patient “care” and other atrocities. For this reason, A few of us are starting our own online literary publication for SURVIVORS ONLY. If MIA wants to link to it, fine, if not, fine. As for Facebook, I’m done with that, and I think the Movement needs to move away from it.

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  • MT, these are doctors at McLean and Mass General. They were said to be the best. The top. My story is typical, not at all unusual and those doctors treated many people I knew and loved. Most are dead now. Early death. What’s unusual about me is that 1) I’m alive after all that, and 2) I choose to speak openly about what happened. I left the USA so that I could continue to exercise Freedom of Speech, without fear of further retaliation on the part of the guilty.

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  • John Hodgett, do not underestimate the power of individual stories. This is my main criticism of MIA, that our voices are not highlighted as most important of all, but instead, buried among “expert” testimony from people who have mostly never been through what I know in my heart as the most horrific thing I have ever been through. Story is sacred. Stories move people because they can relate on a human and very visceral level. Even a person who has never been through something like shock can read our stories, and because we are not much unlike our readers, our readers will empathize and understand just how wrong shrinkage is. Without individual stories or horror or triumph or both, our statistics fall flat and become meaningless. I appeal to anyone reading this now to honor these stories and to tell your own. I wish MIA was more written by survivors and less by people who are already basking in their fame and fortune.

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  • MT, To me, no person, especially not a person with medical training, earns my respect if he upholds torturous practices and continues to hand out permanent harmful diagnoses for temporary conditions, which only serve to degrade, insult, terrorize a person and leave her with nothing left. It’s not care nor treatment and it has nothing to do with the practice of medicine. It’s imprisonment and slavery, and ultimately, genocide.

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  • Ted, I did a writeup of our own protest here in Uruguay. Here it is. I know people were asking for stories. I wrote this real fast and never bothered to revise it, figuring no one would really want the story. I hope I am wrong.

    https://juliemadblogger.wordpress.com/2015/05/18/no-mas-electroshock-international-day-of-protest-south-of-the-equator-in-montevideo-uruguay/

    As you can see, I wrote this and posted it this two days after the protest.

    Julie Greene

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  • MT, I was lucky my own damage as a direct result of shock “only” lasted a year and a half. So for that year and a half, I could barely dress myself, couldn’t go out walking alone, couldn’t figure out how to brush my teeth, could barely put a sentence together, and occasionally, couldn’t figure out how to stand up. During that lengthy period, McLean and Dr. Michael Henry must have been scared out of their minds that my parents would put two and two together. Before shock, I had a job. There was no chance of my working after the shock. Before shock, I had a bubbly personality and laughed a lot. After shock, I was confused all the time. I wish someone had approached me and said, “We are sorry. We are the ones responsible for the condition you are in now. We don’t even know if you will come back. Here’s a million dollars and we will never enslave you again.” I am very lucky that I am still alive to tell you all this. I hope my you-tube gets widely distributed and those torture doctors and McLean Hospital both get exposed for what they did, and that they are stopped.

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  • Oh my goodness that awful clubhouse. That was supposed to be the new great thing. Why the babyish name “clubhouse”? Well, it was just that. I remember being told to count about 500 pennies, then to count them again “because you might have made a mistake.” No more than anyone else might make a mistake, I should have said. Then, I mentioned to them that I’d like to go to school. They said, “Okay, we have sheltered classes.” I told them I had like 15/16ths of a bachelor’s degree which was most likely more than any “staff” had. They seemed to think I wasn’t very smart and wouldn’t let me near the computer. I finished my bachelor’s degree summa cum laude in 2003, went on to grad school (the shrinks objected) and then graduated without “accommodations” and no way did the school grant me a master’s degree out of tokenism for a “disabled” person. I am extremely lucky that I was born with high intelligence and I always enjoyed using it. I thrived in academic environments. That went over the clubhouse’s heads, apparently. When I had state “services” they couldn’t understand why I would write and study at the library all day. They assumed I was sitting at home watching the tube, wasting my life. The usual expectation, that we are useless, stupid, incapable, lazy…all the things that for sure I never was before I entered the MH system. Leaving the System entirely meant rekindling all that, using my REAL skills again, and feeling loved and wanted and happy and peaceful, and very much a rebel…the way I really was all along.

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  • I just found this article. I agree with the comments here. Jen, were you being sarcastic? I am shocked. I would never ever want “training” to be a peer. I had over three decades of the best training ever. I spent time in institutions. I was inpatient over 50 times, used up my 190 Medicare days, and I guess they wanted to squeeze out all they could get. I think I need MORE training! Maybe I should rob a bank, no, I don’t mean to pay college tuition or to pay for said “training,” but so that I would get caught and spend time in a criminal prison. That would add stripes to my already overloaded uniform.

    When I first saw how the “peers” were being trained, I found that their training had no relevance to eating disorders, which were my problem. They failed especially to address the restrictive aspect. I was so put off that I told myself there was simply no point in attending their “retreat” since I’d have nothing in common with anyone there. Many, of course, defined “health” as “losing weight and exercise.” I would have dropped dead had I lost any more weight at the time. I was rather bewildered.

    I had state “services” which meant they sent this completely clueless person to visit me once a week. This proved to be a total nuisance. The state people knew nothing about what I was experiencing. This seems to be true for many people in my position who had these “state services.” A non-service for sure!

    One of these service people did know about ED. I only had her briefly. I liked her. She actually disappeared one day and then when she reappeared she was taken off my case. I can say in the long run she wasn’t that helpful, serving to urge me to stay in the same system that was killing me, not only killing my soul, but killing my body too.

    The best thing I ever did was to ditch these services. The coordinator of that team harassed me after that. I had to put blocks on my phone and email even. Finally, I received a snail mail. I threatened to take action since this was clearly uncalled for as I had already canceled the “service.” They kept calling me, trying to lure me back. I owe a lot to myself for making this smart decision. With no one to track me down, free of their babysitting, I was able to successfully walk out of the USA a free person and no one back there even noticed I was gone for two months.

    If anyone out there REALLY wants to ditch diagnosis and get free, ditch the “services” and you’ll be one giant step in the right direction. Show them you don’t need them. Dependent and needy no more! Who needs that?

    Julie Greene

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  • My experience is that we cannot always fault those that have direct patient contact. Often, these folks go into the field or get jobs with rather altruistic ideals, but they end up working for crooked or corrupt organizations. Some nurses may disagree but are terrified to speak out. If they do, they are threatened with more than job loss, they are threatened with loss of license, or even forced into psych prisons. As examples of corruption, some of these ED treatment organizations may be taking money from Big Pharma or from, say, Carnation, a provider and promoter of fake foods as “healthy.” We were forced to eat single-serve, individually-wrapped Oreos, Nutrigrain bars, Rice Krispie bars, Fig Newtons, potato chips and Doritos and so on in “care.” Literally forced. Where did these samples come from? Tube feed, Ensure, and Boost are also made and sold by big Ag companies. Tube feed was forced into us via a tube. In many places, they tie patients down and tube feed them. I’ve seen patients forced to stay in bed where their muscles atrophied so much they could no longer walk or even stand up. I saw them give my roommate refeeding syndrome and then she died a year and a half later. Some facilities may start out with good ideas but turn into very bad places due to corruption. There are individual abusers who work in such places, too. It’s so traumatic for a young person to end up in such a prison that they end up far sicker than they started out. They develop bad habits, including habitual lying, just to get by in that harsh world. Or they learn disgusting table manners. I have been trying to get people to listen to me for years about the abuses in ED care.

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  • By all means I do not support orthorexia as a psych label. I think I made that clear. I don’t think psych labeling is valid and I think it only harms people. I’m only saying that the label is NOT given to people who eat healthy, or want to. The label is given to those who are super rigid. If it is now given to people who eat healthy then this is reflective of the pervasiveness in Western society of pathologizing normal behavior. On the other hand, if anyone here has ever been enslaved by a meal plan or by those supporting the meal plan or “diet,” you know what I am talking about. The mentality of rigid eating is caused by either treators who act as food police, diet organizations that criminalize or bully those that go off the diet, etc. Walk into an open “Gray sheet” meeting of OA and you might see examples. Or spy on an eating disorders treatment center, but trust me, they don’t allow anyone to witness the cruelties in such places. You might be shocked. This ain’t no horse farm…….

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  • You guys are wrong about this. Orthorexia really does exist. I have known people who have literally been paralyzed by indecision or suffer so much from rigidity in their eating that they can never go to a restaurant. I can tell you what causes it. Usually, it’s exposure to some form of eating disorders “care” or even the rigid OA groups that insist one must eat perfectly according to a “meal plan.” Some end up that way due to dieting or weight-related bullying or discrimination. I went though such “meal plan” terror for a while and it felt like slavery. Many ED care centers claim that we are too perfectionistic but in the same breath admonish anyone who does not eat “100%.” The absolute reign these staff have over us will shock many people who think they saw it all in psych “care.” This is nothing to joke about. I had a roommate in “care” who had this healthy eating obsession and it was tearing her marriage apart. She was older than me, over 60. She drove me crazy, too! I don’t think for one minute that there’s a physical cause of orthorexia, nor do I for one minute suggest drugs for it. Education and facing the foods one fears is the best approach I think.

    Again, if you know anyone who suffers from any type of eating problem who wants to speak with someone who has been there, please contact me at [email protected]. I have no other qualifications than 3-1/2 decades of first-hand experience.

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  • My feeling right now is that I should not charge anything for the various things I do for people, I do accept payment, but only voluntary, and won’t ask for it. I abhor seeing absurd charges from anyone, and I don’t care how talented, creative, insightful, etc, that person is, nor do I give a hoot how many degrees that person has. I have a master’s in Creative Writing that in fact cost money to get. However, I have never made a cent from it. I have become a much better writer, and that’s priceless. I am doing what some might call “peer support” and I feel that if anyone is charging money for it or receiving a paycheck from the government or an agency, it’s not peer support at all. it’s more like the prostitution-like thing called “therapy.” Paying for friendship, that is. If we submit to too much therapy, it’s like substitution for friendship. Guess what happens? Friends slip away, to the degree that the therapist runs the client’s life. If a fee must be charged it should be the price of a pencil, a lapíz. Not the price of a bicicleta, new or even used.

    Julie Greene

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  • Ken, I tried to locate your comment so I could respond directly to it. I want to know if this muscle pain is accompanied by sudden, and rather crippling tightening of muscles. Sort of like a Charlie horse but it can be anywhere in your body. If it is, this is very serious and is most likely related to elctrolyte imbalance. That can cause either a seizure, very serious heart problems, or death. I did a whole bunch of research on muscle cramping a while back. It’s nothing to mess with.

    This is what happened to me. My kidneys were worsening due to past lithium use. The doctors never bothered to inform me of this. I guess they assume patients don’t matter. I complained repeatedly and nothing was done till I nearly died of kidney failure. Again, they didn’t inform me that I had gone into actute kidney failure. Not worth it, I suppose, just another incapable mental patient that taxpayerrs have to shell out bucks for, better off dead they must have figured.

    If indeed this is what is happening, bypass the shrink and go directly to your PCP. Or find a new one if yours won’t listen. Better yet, go to a new one and don’t even admit your past. Then, they’ll take you seriously. It’s sad that it’s come to that in the USA/

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  • I want to add one more thing. A therapist must recognize psych abuse and must at all times be an advocate for their patients. So if a patient reports abuse in a facility, as mandated reporter that therapist is obligated to raise hell. Mental health is more about human rights, that is, right to privacy, right to respect from others, and right to be treated in a dignified manner.

    I want also to respond to Duane’s wonderful comment on forgiveness. I was once told to beg Jesus to forgive someone who had harmed me. Wow, did that feel forced (I’m Jewish, too). You can’t force it, you either feel it or you don’t. If there was one thing I hated, it was saying “I forgive” when I never felt that inside. It felt cheap, fake, and in the long run, was totally unhelpful.

    I certainly forgive my parents. I hate that therapy was very quick to blame them and turn me against them for a while. I feel that therapists duped my parents into paying the bills for their incompetency and for their continued damages to me. I forgive those therapist who clearly tried but were incompetent or ignorant. I don’t forgive the ones who hadn’t resolved their power issues and acted like the gestapo.

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  • Daniel, I agree with most of what you said. I don’t agree that a therapist with children is going to be a bad therapist. This, to me, is too much of a sweeping generalization. i think any therapist who is distracted by something in their lives, be it children or spouse or “that other career” or their own issues, including financial struggles, won’t be a good therapist. That’s pretty much the rule of thumb for any career, right? A person not fully engaged in their job won’t be a good worker. There are indeed people who successfully juggle career and work, who are either mothers or fathers.

    I often looked at how long they’d been working for the agency and the overall stability of that agency. What about supervision? Who was ruling over them and just how money-driven was this ruling organization? I’d rather see a therapist who did indeed have a go-to person, but not one that was overbearing or restrictive or regularly threatening employees with firing if they didn’t comply.

    I believe that my biggest mistake in life was to go to therapy. It enslaved me for over three decades. Eventually, I realized these people were power-mongers who had the gall to turn me into a dependent child and act as surrogate parents. When I broke free, I gained a new sense of self I never could have had otherwise.

    To me, therapy is a form of prostitution. These people collect money from needy people who otherwise have either no friends or no one to talk to. I find that therapy, because it condones these dependencies, is causing us to talk to each other less, to care less, and to shove the unwanteds of society into “treatment” instead of offering friendship, caring, and empathy. Societies that have less therapy most likely have more cohesive families. I can tell you that here in Uruguay, where there are hardly any shrinks, we also have very few nursing homes nor the equivalent of the ADA. Why? Because families care for those who are elderly or sick. The coolest thing is when I see a person my age wheeling an elderly parent through the market, doing shopping together. You don’t see that nearly as much in USA. Disability is seen differently and I truly believe that since people help each other so much more, disability laws are not actually an issue. But you have to come here and see for yourself.

    After I saw that therapy didn’t help my eating disorder one bit, I begged for pills. I knew the new research on this and I wanted in on it. I believe eating disorders can’t be treated by therapy since I see them as not being mental health issues at all. However, it took me over three decades to realize this.

    Self-therapy? Yes, everyone does self-therapy and it’s more effective than anything you’ll get in an office. i had to be my own nutritionist, too, and really, that’s why i do no suffer from an eating disorder anymore. I feel like it is part of my experience, so it is within the story of me, yet I no longer suffer as I did for so long. They say eating disorders are the most fatal mental illness. While that might be true, I don’t see these problems as “mental” at all. That’s why “recovery” rate is so low.

    Julie Greene (my real name)

    PS if anyone needs to talk about ED with someone who has been through it, or if you know anyone who might want this, you can contact me at 617-923-8524 (leave message) or write to me at [email protected]. I write back to everyone and I don’t charge a cent.

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  • God bless you, Anthony. I see you as a person with so much promise. There are so many that feel hopeless and trapped and have no clue of the wonderful and vastly meaningful ways they can achieve freedom, peace, and happiness. This surely doesn’t mean losing one’s passion, but freeing oneself up to express that passion, and to firmly and gracefully act on it without recourse from the p$ychiatric corporate baloney.

    ¡Hasta luega! (look that one up.)

    Julie

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