i like to keep it simple…
i have a mental illness…
i was helped by a very good lady psychologist…
it worked for me…i don’t care what you call it…
beatrix…..thank you…thank you…thank you…
i would love to be with you in a group of
like minded people…i am 89 yo and am alone
even tho i have family…you are right on…
yes
thanks ekaterina..i find you very interesting…
i like you…and your psyche
i am impressed with DDA and how you have helped…
what a terrible problem…many systems are involved..
even some good psychiatrists have a big problem…
they can get sued if a child dies by suicide…no matter what
and we need to keep the good guys around…i need my psychiatrist
to talk to…not for psych drugs…
dr rose yesha…you are a precious soul…
your story is so moving…so helpful
thanks for your kindness
from the littleturtle
i have been helped by a psychotherapist…
i don’t care what the research says…
and i want face to face therapy ….
thanks very much
from the littleturtle
oldhead…the key issue here is nourishing your brain
with whole food plant based diet….it is part of
LIFESTYLE PSYCHIATRY…did you read that book …
this is the most important information
on mad in america that you will find…
it is up to you ….you can choose health
or sickness…
i have no idea about the causes of this suffering…
but i do not want lawful forced medication…
thanks stephen…
stephen…you don’t know what i have been thru….
i am not like you….each one of us is different…
but steve how can you say there
is no genetic basis for MY mental
illness…you and i can’t know that yet..
the neuroscientists are working on it…
that is what science is about…not just words…
steve you make good points…
but there is a problem when you
try to rule out biology causing serious mental problems….we still do not know
enough to say that genes have no
effect…..and neuroscience is working
hard on this….words do not stop
people looking…and scientists need
evidence not words…
steve i have a serious mental health problem….
and i feel most comfort in being with those
that say they have a mental illness…
i don’t think you can change reality just by changing
words….
i am depressed….i have a mental illness…
thanks steve for the above comment…
beautifully said…
but steve…how can i possibly know
whether nature or nurture is more
important for me…
steve i am having a problem here…
i think my breakdowns were caused
by three factors——bio and psy and soc…
and i certainly was looking for treatment
from somebody…what do you think…
truth to power…
don’t even think about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
thank you…what a kind person you are…
what problem do i have….
what should i call it…..
a nervous problem….a disorder…
a suffering….fear and panic is there…
what are the accepted words here
in this group…
blame this ….blame that…
how about getting at the real causes
of our suffering …..
thanks trm123…
david thank you so much for your story..
so real…so awful…so great…so sad…
but hopeful
anger is very important…..
but so is DO NO HARM….
i hope the womens revolution will not be silenced
any longer…..i hope it is non-violent….for all of us…
this blog is so important….
thanks sera….
we need to hear what is true…
thanks subvet416…
wow….what a great thing here…
thank you james and derek…
you have presented some hope here…
i am a veteran of the korean war….
thanks phoebe…we are not all the same…
each person is different…whatever twirls your turban..
yes steve…very well said…
amazing story annita…what a courageous person…
i really want to know more about you…
i couldn’t find your website…
the researchers may call for this…
but too much money$$$$$$$$$ is being made
from drugs of all kinds….i don’t see much
change happening….
all priests are not the same…
all psychiatrists are not the same…
and it is important to attack issues not people…
we need to attack the dsm and the misuse of medicines…
but james i am a littleturtle…and
your podcasts are very helpful..
thank you so much james for all the help
and truth that you have been sharing…
i look up to you…
i like the way you all are speaking out against this idea…..
thank you from the littleturtle….
good response steve…thanks
i do worry some about
how people are eating junk
and how that may effect
the brain…
thanks very much steve…
is it possible that at sometime in the
future that the neuroscientists
will discover some genetic abnormality
that explains some of the thinking/emotional
suffering that we are seeing right here…
oldhead and steve disagree about szasz….
did he throw out the BIO or not….
who is the expert here….what is it…
and WHY would you want to throw out the bio…
it doesnt make sense since we don’t know very much…
sounds like szasz throws out the bio…
are you throwing out the bio…
what did szasz say about mental health…
thanks steve….
is there anything that neuroscience has to say about
persons having different neurotransmitter systems…
steve what do you think about the model of causation——-
bio/psy/soc/econ/pol
was the mother depressed….was the daughter depressed…
does the word–depressed–have any meaning…
can the daughter be introverted and depressed…
blame and hate can eat away at your own psyche…
thanks for this joshua….
there may be another problem when obesity
is present…how about leptin resistance causing
some of the problem….with weight gain…
i support critical psychiatry….
anti-psychiatry is too extreme…
we need to know the causes of mental suffering…
i like LIFESTYLE MEDICINE….
how about bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…
or pol/econ/soc/psy/bio…
or whatever…
thanks Julie…you are
a helpful person…
steve I can’t find any notice
on the home page…
why in the world would my comment be
awaiting moderation…doesn’t make sense…
thanks Julie for your good work
and caring for others…
if you have $$$$$$$$you can get any
diagnosis you want or desire or need…
I don’t think anti-psychiatry is going to be able
to take the big$$$$$$$$$$$ boys down…
how about the model of causation——–
bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…that was proposed
many years ago…
what do you think of Irvin yalom…
is he not good…
good comment Julie…
what do you think about
critical rather than anti
psychiatry…
very interesting life story Julie…
thanks for sharing ….
steve are you saying all mental misery is
social….sounds like soc/soc/soc….
it is necessary to find CAUSES of our misery…
and we need to go everywhere to find causes..
bio/psy/soc/econ/pol….model of causation
CRITICAL PSYCHIATRY
Robert whitaker…thank you….thank you …
you are doing great with CRITICAL psychiatry…
the new Yorker article is a step in the right direction…
oldhead —can you say more about your story…
1600 mg thorazine 40 years ago…forcefed…
schizophrenia diagnosis?????
thank you also…
no…critical psychiatry…
and it is here with laura…
getting a diagnosis about mental health problems…
I don’t think it is very helpful except to get paid…
each person is very different….it will not help
until we understand what is going on…like causes…
another good story is in THE NEW YORKER
APRIL 8TH—–THE BITTER PILL…why do we know
so little about how to stop taking psychiatry drugs…
wonderful……
oldhead and rachel777———————-
I don’t think the awful things in psychiatry
will be taken down by changing names..
I think we need to be supporting what is TRUE…
I have a mental illness…I have no idea what
caused it and the treatment didn’t wash it away..
after thinking about this blog……
I think there are serious problems
telling some people that there is no such
thing as MENTAL ILLNESS…..
back to ALEX…I watched the whole
film……VOICES THAT HEAL by ALEX G..
what a wonderful work by all of the persons…
this mental illness thing is certainly messy..
ALEX– thank you so much for your
comments here…I watched 10 minutes
of YOUR FILM and just cried with sadness
and happiness…I am going back to see
the rest of it…
I have a problem with this blog…
I think fred moss is a good guy…
and there are people who take
advantage of the system…
but most people who see a doctor
or psychiatrist are suffering…
and want help now…we are all
looking for the quick fix…everywhere..
but that doesn’t work with life very
well…
what would you say about this one—
a person comes to the doctor with
extreme anxiety…it is found out that
this person has a genetic problem…
a problem with very few GABA receptors…
is this person just going thru life like
everyone else…are we all the same…
do we have differences in the brain that
make life more difficult…who should this person
go to for help…
trying to wipe away the words
[mental illness] will not make
the problem go away,,,
we think we know a lot…but
I don’t think we know very much
about causes and treatments…
no good…into the trash can with dsm-5
thanks…good information…
important research…
CRITICAL PSYCHIATRY…
I really like critical psychiatry…
thanks for this information…
and how can anyone say they
were never helped with these
medicines…and I have a mental illness..
I was helped…I shouldn’t have taken
them for so long a time…
excellent information….
CRITICAL PSYCHIATRY—yes…
I have been unable to withdraw
from anti-depressants after
45 years of using many different
ones including Elavil and Prozac…
I don’t think we know very much
about mental suffering….and how
to help people…we talk a lot…
is there a better way of describing this problem….
what are the causes of this problem….
I really like getting down to the CAUSE…
I like the bio/psy/soc/econ/pol model…
usually it involves more than one cause…
I like this research news….published in the nemj…
it is a part of CRITICAL psychiatry….this is the type
of news that will take down the BAD STUFF from within…
the problem with anti-psychiatry —-it is not going
anywhere….a lot of heat and not enough light…
i like critical psychiatry for now…
bio/psy/soc/econ/pol model of causation…
thanks very much…
teens and young adults…..
brains not totally formed…
how many prescription medicines being used…
how much alcohol/nicotine/caffeine being used…
how many street drugs being used….
how much sugar is being used…
all of the above are effecting a young brain…
I have a serious problem with anxiety and depression….
I take medication for this problem…
I see a psychiatrist every 3 months….
I have no problem if someone says I have a mental illness..
and I seriously hope that they never stop looking for
any genetic problem that might impact on this suffering…
I believe in the bio/psy/soc model of causation….
I don’t want anything left out that might help…
should we stop genetic research trying to
understand the cause of panic attacks….
abandon genetic research looking for cause of depression…
no no no….not a good idea….
but the DSM diagnosis [major depression disorder] needs to
be dropped out into the trash can along with the DSM..
good discussion here….the big problem imo
is mental health treatment….we are not
treating the cause.. only symptoms and signs…
we need treatment of the cause of mental suffering…
whatever the cause may be…for that person….
and we need to think of true prevention…
…we do not know causes…
we cannot rule out biology…bio/psy/soc…
in the usa…if you have $$$cash
you can get what you want from
your psychiatrist…also you need to speak up
to see if you can WORK WITH a doctor..
young persons today are at risk
for pre-diabetes….if you have pre-diabetes
you are at risk for depression…we are not
eating healthy….we need to think about
prevention without using any prescribed
medications or any street drugs…PREVENTION….
also think about nutritional psychiatry…not pills..
how about NUTRITIONAL psychiatry…..
maybe eating in certain ways
will help brain health…that will help
all this anxiety and depression out there…
instead of a pill or two…
after all this talk I need a valium….
jo ann cook
thank you very much…
you have helped me understand…
my psychologist tells me why so many
americans are seeking medication….
it is human nature to————
to avoid pain
to seek pleasure
and do it as quick as possible
some of us out there are not as strong…
we need help…medications and drugs
are a problem…
dr kelmenson do you think healthy eating
might help our brains…
my psychiatrist is kind…
he is not authoritarian…
we have a lot to learn
about CAUSATION…
I would hope that we all could help heal
trauma without making money doing it…
I believe in FREE love so to speak..
yes
kim thanks for your work here…
this fast track on this fast drug is scary…
this is an awful world….I can’t believe
what I am learning….I need to concentrate
on being patient and kind…that’s it for me…
very interesting blog….it brings up so many problems..
I had a good discussion with my wife over coffee…
how about
dean ornish and lifestyle medicine….
4 important areas of concern….
1..what you eat
2..how much you move
3..how you manage stress
4..how much love and support you have…
I think number 4 is very important…
dear rachel777—I feel sorry for both of us…
I am glad that you are off those doctor drugs…
I am still on 5mg celexa…I hate it…my main problem
right now is I am old and closer to death…I fear it…
each person is different….what is the
cause of their suffering….it may even
have to do with gut bacteria [ please see SCIENCE
news 2-4-19]…whatever works for YOU…
whatever actually works for you…this soul
thing may work for certain persons….
omg….my psychiatrist trys to find out
what is actually CAUSING the suffering that we
experience….what is it that is causing
a certain person to be unhappy/sad/mad…
bio/psy/soc…
I don’t think using the term soul helps here..
I would rather use mind or psyche…
we have a lot to learn about depression…
who knows what lurks in our brains…
many good points…but there is a lot we still
do not know about human mental suffering….
i think doctors have a problem with lawsuits…
there is a big problem starting and stopping
drugs/medicines…also doctors don’t have time
any longer to deal with this awful problem
of too many drugs for older persons..
thanks Richard….
I understand better..
thanks professor van Os and james….
what a problem we have here …
dealing with causes and treatments that work..
without doing harm…this love thing is easy to say
but hard to do….respect and kindness sound
good to me…I like it when my therapist listens
to me and doesn’t judge or distort what is said…
Richard—-what is your thinking about the—
bio/psy/soc model of causation….
dsm5—-I have an alternative….
use it for reimbursement..get your $$…
but don’t take it as anything close to TRUE..
or just dump it in the trash can and take cash..
the conclusion is too extreme…
“you cannot trust psychiatrists”
I trust my psychiatrist….he is
very critical of psychiatry but
he still pays attention to the
model of causation bio/psy/soc…
thank you abrianna…..
love is patient…
love is kind….
and the DSM sucks…
I have a problem with this research
news….the word depression means so
many things…..what kind of depression
are they talking about…
wow steve…good post…
nature of society—soc…yes
but how can you say primary..
what do you want soc/soc/soc…
actually I like bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…
I would hope that we are searching
for the causes of human suffering
and what we can do about it…..
how about do no harm…
and not for profit…too much $$$$
being made and we still don’t know
why so much suicide and drug addiction..
bio/psy/soc—we need to look everywhere…
even under the kitchen sink
critical psychiatry is better…
bio/psy/soc model…
thank you MIA….I like the “rethink psychiatry”…
I do not like the psychiatry bashing…
I understand it…but it bashes some of
the psychiatry that has helped me..
like my own psychiatrist…he has helped ME
so much..thanks again for being fair minded…
pills and more pills…that is what
the doctors are doing…more
pills not less…will it cut down suicides?
we don’t know very much…
what is actually true….
but we are working on it…
thanks steve…
STEVE McCREA—-will you please say something here…I like what you say…
steve says [very very little]
are you teasing me….
how can you say this steve…
we know some about genes…
not much…but MOST we don’t know..
and don’t genes determine brain..
and doesn’t brain determine mind…
and doesn’t brain determine emotions…
and doesn’t brain drive survival and reproduction…
true biology will not go away…
we still don’t know very much about
the causes of mental and emotional suffering…
and what to do about it….
what evidence do genetic researchers have
that link genes to peoples mental states…
have genetic researchers found any evidence
linking genes to psychiatric conditions…
the title of this blog seems to imply that genes
having absolutely nothing to do with mental
illness….I don’t believe that genes have
nothing to do with it knowing the family that
I came from…and I use mental illness without
quotes because I have a mental illness…you all
may not have it but I do…
we still don’t know very much..
if I had a genetic disorder causing severe disabling anxiety
I would be reaching for valium and the kitchen sink…
we still do not know most everything about the brain…
steve let’s get down to dirty….
who cares what you call it…
poor people get 15 minutes and drugs…
or maybe some inadequate talking…
if you have money they will kiss your ***.
so we still don’t know the causes of depression…..
is the bio/psy/soc model of causation still important…
oldhead and steve want to know what are the good parts
of psychiatry that need to be saved….important question…
I think right away about the most important part to keep
and to make sure you are talking about what is TRUE…
you do not want BIOLOGY to be swept away….I am not
talking about biology that is not true…I want to see a PEACEFUL
transition from without and from within…how about that…
Robert Whitaker has started us on that journey here at MIA..
thanks rachel777—
I personally think that PSYCHIATRY sucks…
it is so sick it does need to go down…
but I don’t want the good parts to go down…
thanks to you all here…for understanding
good reply
thanks rachel
good
there are so many good people here….we have been hurt..hurt badly…
but I must now speak some truth to power…anti-psychiatry..
I strongly believe it is too extreme….and like revolts the bad
may outweigh the good…certain things need to be taken
down…but why would some want to take ME down…
there are some here that are very hateful of everything…
and I don’t like that….we must speak up effectively…and I have a mental illness…
and I have talked with Robert whitaker…he might agree about anti-psychiatry with me…he is a good guy…
we are talking about speaking up…
well I am going to speak up now…
this anti-psychiatry thing is way wrong…
you are trying to take down everything …
the good and the bad…for me I like taking
my valium when things go haywire..
and I don’t want to be told how bad that is..
I have a mental illness….all that talk about
changing the words is crap..it won’t go anywhere…
you are trying to take down innocent people..
maybe you ought to take a look at yourselves..
thanks will hall….there are many good comments here…
I hope oldhead comments on the model of causation…
I like many of the comments he makes…
oldhead —what do you think of the model
of causation—–bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…
oldhead–I would like to understand better what you believe..
what is causing all this mental/emotional/behavioral suffering…
i have a problem with this anti-psychiatry talk…
I like critical psychiatry…and critical psychology…
I have a very good psychiatrist….he has helped me..
why trash everything about psychiatry….
how about bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…..model of cause..
I am having a problem here…psychiatry is not the only problem..
all of us that are suffering want a quick fix…I want a quick fix…
but I have not found anything to fix me…
if you are pre-diabetic…
it may be harder to withdraw from an anti-depressant…
you get rid of the bad stuff…keep the good…the true
love is not about abolishing psychiatry…
love has to do about what is true…
sex is not love…
thanks cat….what a terrible problem…thanks peter…
giving anti-psychotic drugs for non-psychotic problems…
we still do not know the causes of all the suffering..
the suffering that people want help with…
i have a problem here…we already know that
empathy is important….why do we need studies…
most therapy is based on a BUSINESS model…
and that $$$$$ model presents very serious problems..
I really want to know what OLDHEAD thinks
about BRAIN HEALTH…
i haven’t finished reading but this is a biggy….
thank you…thank you….you have my attention….
oldhead—–is it important to have BRAIN HEALTH…
sounds real good….but I wanted to get away from
my family as soon as possible…I needed 1-1 therapy…
very interesting….maybe eating healthy
has something to do with brain health……
thanks james and dr steingard….this was helpful for me…
in our local mhc you get 15 minutes and drugs…
not much talk…I see someone privately for 45 mins…
and I am tapering off of celexa with difficulty…
I wonder about withdrawal in children…
once you start an ssri in a kid…
how long can you go with the ssri
before you get into withdrawal problems
when you stop …I worry about the kids
I am going to try this lavender thing…
I am a very anxious person..
I have the most trouble EATING HEALTHY….
exercise is very important..
but how about healthy eating…
whatever that is..my psychiatrist
thinks that is more important..
my psychiatrist says it is important to know the true causes of all
the problems people are having with thought/mood/behavior….
then we could deal with these problems more realistically….
thanks andri….strong helpful connections are what I work on..
and eating healthy…I am having a terrible time coming off
celexa after 45 years of different anti-depressants for my
so-called lifetime depression…
good info….I wonder what happened to eating healthy..
very informative…thanks…
we should not give psych drugs to kids…
what a nice little blog here…it feels safe for me…
I have an illness…probably not disease…
but when I had my first panic attack…
I started thinking something wrong here with my brain…
fiachra—can you say more…what a problem..
thanks cathy…we have some things in common…
I am having trouble withdrawing from celexa…
after many years…it is scary..
the DSM5 belongs in the trash can….
very good blog…very important book…
what an awful problem for kids…
what a terrible problem we have here…
but there might be a problem with only
talking about anti-authority…
many of these kids given psych drugs
are misbehaving because they are not
eating healthy…we must not be blind to
other factors besides trauma and society
and bad psychiatry…
I am 87 years old….I find valium to be very helpful..
I use it when I hit a very hurtful spot…maybe a day or 2…
I don’t abuse it…I move on..
interesting big picture….
I am interested in what is going to help me…
I have a depressive and anxious disorder…
I need to eat healthy….very little sugar…
mostly plants not too much…
I can fight all these doctors and big pharm..
but that wont help me…I need to pay attention to my
BEHAVIOR…
beautiful….I cried also
no psych drugs…but biology must be considered for angry kids…
how about —are they eating healthy food…are they sleeping enough..
are they getting enough healthy physical activity…
and as bcharris says above—how about things like caffeine
when it comes to kids—————
throw out the DSM….trash can
do not use any psych drugs…
this may be gross….I am old and I have a urinary tract problem…
I urinate frequently and it can be triggered by a sound …
so when I need to go and take care of myself…sorry I am selfish…
we don’t understand a lot of things…but we certainly have opinions..
I have a depressive and anxious disorder,,,
how is this podcast going to help me…
i like what you are doing…I also like people getting together
helping each other without money being involved…
i have “a new paradigm” for psychiatry…..
the DSM goes in the TRASH CAN…
YES…..I have been trying to withdraw from 5 mg of citalopram
for 2 years….I have been on anti-depressants for over 40 years…
I have experienced both physical and psychological problems
with my attempt to stop my AD…I am retired and no longer
need this psych drug…I am not anti-psychiatry…but I can say
a lot about the corruption and lack of truth that I see in psychiatry….
I find it interesting how we can get so off-topic…
NUTRITION is vital for brain health….
Julia continues to do research and provides
us with important information…
all the rest will end up being insignificant….
oldhead why do you need quotation marks..
I agree with you Stephen…there is a lot of money being made off of
people not being able to parent their children…just drug them…
I wonder how many of us are invested in the stocks of big pharm..
this does sound really stupid…throw the dsm in the trash can..
is it essential
lithium is not a nutrient…
I may be wrong…what is the science..
Julia’s ted talk was very informative…
nutrition is vital for brain health…
the important point ….
nutrition is important for brain health…
and the brain needs its nutrients
to function well…I would hope it
helps my depression if I eat healthy..
I want to be healthy and happy…
I am following you Julia…I think you have
important information about nutrition…
will this have anything to do about the brain…
I think so…will this have anything to do
with my depression and anxiety…I hope so…
my psychiatrist is trustworthy..
my psychiatrist is seeking the truth..
dr kelmenson you have gone too far..and I do understand how awful
psychiatry has become…
I think rosalee is making a good point here..
her doctor is trying to help her get relief…
why are we bashing all doctors…
my psychiatrist is really good….he has proposed
a new model of causation—bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…
fred77—I don’t know much…
but kids brains are developing..
and they are not getting micronutrients
to their brains….bcharris knows more…
critical issue for the health of our kids…
also they are eating too much sugar…
interesting that no one comments on nutrition
and kids health…
my psychiatrist refuses to see drug reps….
my psychiatrist will not force his patients
into the hospital against their will..
my psychiatrist does not pressure patients
to take psych drugs…
my psychiatrist refuses to see a patient
every 15 minutes…
my psychiatrist is not rich…
my psychiatrist is different….he believes that psychiatry is a medical discipline…
that looks at bio/psy/soc…or anything else…he believes that mental illness
is an appropriate term for some…and for others it is not…he is most interested
in understanding human suffering and what we can do about it…
he only works half-time and studies about the causes of depression the other
half…he lives very modestly and he helps me with my many problems…
I know a lot about him because he believes in sharing his problems with me..
we are both interested in evidence not just talk…he does not believe in anti-psychiatry..
he likes critical psychiatry very much….he likes to take down only those parts of
psychiatry that are sick and corrupt….those parts that are harmful…thank you..
Richard I think psychiatry is a legitimate medical specialty..
psychiatry is the specialty between neurology and psychology…
the specialty is not wrong… the current practices need to go down..
what needs to be taken down is the apa and corrupt pharm..
and corrupt doctors…and corrupt anything else….and drugs that
do not fix the underlying problem…the quick fix…
dr furman—-what do you think about glasser and choice theory..
dr furman———what part does nutrition play in a childs life…
what problems are caused by use of mdma…
very good thinking cc
this could be very important…
vitamin d and omega 3 and who knows what..
the model of causation bio/psy/soc…
not just psy…not just soc…not just bio…
bio/psy/soc…
new research–
reports discovery of a new
type of neuron in the human brain….
it has been called the rosehip neuron…
it is an inhibitory type neuron in the neocortex..
I hope that helps us in some way…
people need to tell their stories…
in a safe non-critical environment…
I am skeptical of yet another DRUG…
thanks laren and good you-tube
good comment Rachel…there are so many important things
laren I am glad that you are happy…
do you have any suggestions for young kids
about taking different drugs/alcohol/street stuff..
there are certain micronutrients that are essential…
if you don’t eat them you die….and you get demented…
example PELLAGRA…
so does eating healthy help your brain..
that is the question…correlation…causation…biology..
what are we dealing with here…
I have been married 63 years…..it is much different
than I ever imagined….it has been very stressful..
I think that good marriage counseling is hard to find…
interesting—-only 3 comments…
and this is very important..
people comment about exercise…
but they don’t want to talk about
eating healthy…
wait just a minute …not every psychiatrist is crooked……
whatever—-if you want some help you do three things…
you eat healthy….and you do healthy physical activity…
and you stay away from sugar…there all kinds of reasons why
people don’t do this… but the fact is these behaviors are crucial…
some day we will get it maybe…
that eating real food and mostly plants
and not too much is crucial for mental
health….and sugar is dangerous…
thank you again Robert whitaker…
MAD IN AMERICA….we are looking
at evidence here….very important…
ok now this is important….the possible link between
nutrition and depression…but healthy eating is
very hard to do today…
oldhead—–why is it so important to not
use the words mental illness….is there a simple
answer…
psychiatry needs changes….
critical psychiatry…
take out all the bad…
my psychiatrist is good….
I don’t blame him for anything…
he is not guilty…some are guilty..
better keep bio/psy/soc or you
will be making major errors…
and bio does not mean drugs..
vanilla you make a good point here…
Stephen there might only be one…
but don’t take that doctor down…
psychiatry is not the problem…
people are…
you are correct steve…but that is not
the way psychiatrists are supposed to act…
they are not practicing good psychiatry…
the new neuron is the rosehip neuron….
reported on npr…it may be important
in understanding mental illness…
and just saying there is no mental
illness doesn’t make it go away…
I have a mental illness…I am unipolar..
steve the important model of causation
bio/psy/soc…..and the concept that
psychiatry should be a discipline that
bridges neurology and psychology….
and my psychiatrist is a beautiful
example of a person who deals with the
truth….and anti-psychiatry is dangerous..
just take down the bad..
[bring on the research but stop the lies]yes Rachel777…..
what do you think of the bio/psy/soc model of causation…
there is news today from npr…
a new type of neuron has been found
in human brains…research that scientists
are doing…are we going to bash that also…
because is BIO..maybe it will help us..
we can keep bashing at all of psychiatry…
the past does not go away…we have to
change what is not helping us…
I have been helped by a psychiatrist
and a psychologist….I will not bash them…
you need to take bad stuff to the trash can…
like what the big pharm is doing…
I really agree with your ideas chaya…thanks..
I do have a problem with trying to take psychiatry down…
we need to take the practices of psychiatry down…
the misuse of drugs is rampant in medicine..
why not take down only what is rotten…
we need to keep what is good…
back to bio/psy/soc model of causation….hello steve..
there is a reason to put bio first…
when you have a mind or emotional problem…
the first thing a doctor is supposed to do…
is to make sure there is not something bio
causing the problem…like low thyroid…
bio/psy/soc——model of causation….
has this changed?????
what a problem for someone who has been on
an anti-depressant and gets pregnant…
if you stop the drug you get withdrawal
problems for both the mother and baby…
dr landman—-what is causing all this mental and emotional suffering…
dr landman….how helpful have you been with the people you see in your practice..
i sense a separation here between them and us…
i don’t like it…i want to belong…i don’t want to be alone…
and i definitely hate forced anything…
how can anyone be a survivor in this awful world..
and we all have to die…
i am a person with a mental illness…
when I broke down I would have taken anything to feel better…
I didn’t care what anyone said….I wanted help right then…
we shouldn’t be blaming anyone so much…
how about compassion…
sounds good…I hope it is helpful…
I need to mention another side of psychiatry..
my psychiatrist started a private outpatient practice..
he spent time with his patients..he did not use drugs..
but he brokedown after 5 years…he is now retired..
he still is broken hearted that the psychiatry system
is upside down….the doctor on top and patient down..
I just finished reading— mad in America…
Robert whitaker has helped me understand
how sick the psychiatry system is..
I can’t believe how I have been mislead..
but we can clean this up with the truth
that is not driven by $$$$$$$$$$$
I don’t seem to be able to post a comment…
in the usa I would have a problem with ultimate freedom
for persons under 18 y.o………….
I understand that the frontal cortex is not yet developed…
what a good study……thank you…
the comments reflect our need to understand suicide..
but we don’t know very much…
we need to know a lot more —-WHY????
everyone should be thinking about healthy nutrition
and healthy physical activity for the health of mind/body/spirit…
Robert whitaker—-thank you so much for
all the help you have given me…thank you for
teaching me about all the suffering out there..
you have to take on the big guns…
but take down only what needs to go…
my psychiatrist does not need to be taken down…
my psychologist does not need to be taken down..
and people are people…they want pills…
and they want a quick fix….a pill…and
the doctor is there…
very obvious…a frontal assault against the guys with power
is not wise….it is best to work at the bottom…get ordinary
people helping…and don’t go with hatred…go also with critical psychiatry..
anti-psychiatry trys to take everything down…does that make sense steve..
I am using the words mental health in an
individual way…not the system…the system is sick…
I am talking about the part that is not…
like nutrition…
yes yes yes….nutrition…duh
critical psychiatry will be very effective…
anti-psychiatry may make things worse…
what works the best…
how about nutrition and mental health for kids
what is causing this..
so what should we do about very unhappy kids…
what really bothers me here….I think that more anti and critical
psychiatry persons would be talking about this…nutrition could
be a keystone in the treatment of mental suffering….
psych drugs are just treating symptoms…but nutrition may
be getting at some of the causes…
steve you have said it very well…but NUTRITION
may be more important for a lot of people
having mental health problems..anti-psychiatry
people focus too much on SOC..
but steve— nutritional variables means biology..
very frustrating….where are all the comments here…
this line of research may be very helpful in treatment…
but the anti-psychiatry persons don’t like it…
this has to do with BIO…and it is shunned…
anti-psychiatry is heavily loaded to the SOC..
how about soc/psy/bio…can you buy that…
because this research is very important..
and I trust james and Julia…thank you…
james and Julia————-outstanding podcast…
this is the most important podcast I have listened to here…
NUTRITION AND MENTAL HEALTH…hold on to your seat…
because the ride will be uphill all the way…
thank you both for your courage and honesty…
dear Kerstin—thank you so much..
from the littleturtle
dear james moore….I just now listened to this excellent podcast….again you have done something
very important…I am really impressed with what you are doing to help us …thanks again from the littleturtle…
why aren’t more people interested in this concept of suffering..
thanks greg….what do you think caused your initial trouble at age 14…
I think that it is good here to have our differences…
I like the idea that I have a mental illness..
I like that I am unipolar…
I like the bio/psy/soc model of causation…
i like what Richard is saying…
i think psychiatry is in serious trouble..
i believe in critical psychiatry…not anti..
think pellagra and focal temporal lobe epilepsy…
psychiatry is the problem not the model…
it is not being channeled productively….
not good…too specific…
bio/psy/soc is ok
when my anti-depressant pooped out my psychiatrist just replaced it with another anti-depressant…that was 30 years ago…now when the drug poops out it is replaced by 2 drugs and maybe 3…treatment resistant
depression is the buzz word now….my psychiatrist knows better not to
go with the flow….there is a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to be made from our mental sufferings……..
amy thanks so much for sharing your story…
you are a very brave young lady…
and I would bet that you will do well..
6 mg…omg
maybe we just should have everyone take what drugs they want..
everyone can be a doctor…we like pills…doctors like to give pills..
and the drug companies like making pills..and the lawyers like to sue
over damage from pills….everything over the counter…lets just not
have anyone in charge but the good policeperson…
wow..how are you doing…
yes I think you are correct..in ohio I think psychologists may be prescribing soon …
what a mess…I still think that anti-psychiatry
is the wrong way to go…we need to take
things down without all the hate and anger..
only trauma????????
my psychiatrist is open-minded…
my psychiatrist does not belong to the APA
what is the problem with the model bio/psy/soc…
we still do not know the causes of serious
mind/emotional/behavioral problems….
we need to keep an open mind….
rachel777——–I agree 100%…
but you will not get LOVE….
from a violent overthrow of psychiatry…
there is some love there right now…
do we want to destroy it along with
the bad drugs and the bad external control..
what Emily is saying is so important—-critical psychiatry…
anti-psychiatry will just cause more problems not less..
critical psychiatry is the non-violent way of removing
the bad parts of psychiatry….I want light not heat…
nice going Emily…
your work with critical psychiatry is good..
the problem with antipsychiatry is—it is a guy thing..
guys just think in terms of frontal attack…
there are other ways of taking something bad down..
and all of psychiatry is not bad..
critical psychiatry
antipsychiatry
what difference does it make…
we need to know what is CAUSING
all the mental suffering…
bio/psy/soc….we still don’t know…
I have a mental illness…
I am unipolar….
bio/psy/soc causes…
thanks very much
i am stuck also on a small amount of celexa..
i want off….but i cant do it right now..
i have a different take on this…
it may be beneficial if they tell the WHOLE TRUTH…
i have a mental illness…i am unipolar..
psych drugs are both bad and good…for me..
that is my identity…i have had my share of stigma…
i want all the dirty laundry out on the line…
where everyone can see it…most people just dont get it..
THE WHOLE TRUTH is going to upset a lot of people…
like the drug companies and the doctors and the lawyers..
and on and on..bring it on
we do not know enough yet about the CAUSES
of anxiety and depression…each person is different…
so we need to keep searching for the truth…
we must consider all the bio/psy/soc factors…
we just do not know…yet
so what kind of stigma do we have here…
very big problem…
isn’t it hard to tell what is healthy
no time to talk…
we want a quick fix…
there is a pill for everything…
we are into FAST MOODS
but dr kelmenson—-you cant buy the truth…
and that is THE most powerful weapon…
all this other anti-psychiatry talk will not
get the job done…
what will you do when psychologists start
prescribing psych drugs…the lion king can
then be anti-psychiatry and anti-psychology…
and how about anti-all drugs…go natural….
we have nothing to worry about….
psychologists will soon be prescribing psych drugs..
then they will be in charge…they will do bio and psy..
then it can be anti-psychiatry and anti-psychology…
i am tired of all the craptalk here…..
I have a MENTAL ILLNESS…and it is awful..
don’t be talking that it just has to do about moving on…
I am UNIPOLAR and I will get help anywhere I find it…
and I don’t find much kindness here..i find hate and anger…
and that will go NOWHERE..
i have a UNIPOLAR mood disorder…
i have an excellent psychiatrist…
i take 5 mg of celexa daily…
i am trying to withdraw from it…
i don’t believe that NOT using those words..
is going to help me at all….
i actually like the word UNIPOLAR..
and if i stop using that word UNIPOLAR…
my suffering will not get any better…
are you agreeing with everything steve is saying…
what are you agreeing with chris..
there was one time in the usa when mental patients in southern state hospitals
were treated with a substance [niacin] and it was curative….I think we have forgotten about pellagra..and what it did to peoples brains and minds..
steve you have mentioned some of the problems with the word UNIPOLAR…
do you have anything to say about how that word might be helpful to some persons
suffering with a mood disorder….do you have a problem with the words mood disorder…
you can talk all you want about not liking certain names …
but the human sufferings are not going away…
more has to be done than just changing names…
I choose to use my word for my condition UNIPOLAR…
and I am only interested in the truth…
this blog could turn out to be a turning point here ….
this dr Kelly brogan may be speaking the truth…
and the truth is not for sale…and love here is not for sale..
I am scared when I read this Kelly brogan talk…
fiachra—yes…maybe many causes…
and we still don’t know why someone becomes BIPOLAR…and
I don’t believe this word is in the same category as the N word..
chris I just read the first paragraph and I really like what you are saying…
I am unipolar….that is my past…
but I don’t have a good word for it now…
but I don’t like all the anger and hate here on MIA…
I don’t think we all have to hop on the anger bus…
I need to understand this better…..there is neuroscience research on the relation between the microbiome and the central nervous system…what does philosophy have to say about that type of research…
steven are there different causes of psychosis…
and are there different types of psychosis…
I thought we just didnt know the causes yet..
hey I just thought….in the northern hemisphere…
why is the peak month for suicides in MAY…
I have no idea…can we blame psychiatry
we can only light our own candle…I am interested
in the evidence…that is what I will follow..
you will take down the bad by showing the good…
you will not succeed with hate…
we need to fight with the truth and love..
thanks kelli…you have helped me understand…
what an awful experience…keep up the good work…
recovered—good post…my biggest withdrawal problem is FEAR…i still am stuck with 5 mg of celexa..
psychiatry sucks….my psychiatrist knows that…
psych drugs suck…my psychiatrist knows that…
appts every 15 minutes suck…he knows that…
there has been unbelievable abuse and extreme anger..
but where has it gotten antipsychiatry…
the frontal assault does not seem to be working..
we still do not know the causes of mental suffering..
the public still wants a quick fix…and they are
getting it…
antipsychiatry has some problems also…
antipsychiatry takes down the good with the bad…
that is not good..
I have proof…I just went out for a morning walk..
now I am not as anxious and depressed…
I have a different opinion….this is news….what could be more important
than physical activity and healthy eating to help those of us that are
anxious and depressed…I thought MIA had to do with science and psychiatry..
and when I say psychiatry I say the good with the bad…it seems that it is
difficult to see the good….there is information available that connects
lifestyle factors to brain function…it is a mistake to just look at bad psychiatry…
dr kelmenson—are you saying that the word depression
should not be used…and we should not talk about
physical activity helping people that are depressed…
I thought MIA dealt with science…
yes
Rachel that is very sad… what happened to you…
those traumas were a big deal…you make a very good point…I was fortunate……i did have a good psychiatrist…
physical activity yes…but healthy eating may be more important..
it would be nice if we knew the cause of all this…..
depression and anxiety….
whatever works for you
also steve——whatever works for …..no matter what…
steve—–honesty/truthfulness/reliable/cure…
the golden rule..DO NO HARM….and you don’t
go into medicine to become rich …
I don’t see any talk about how lifestyle behaviors
may effect the brain by way of inflammation….
and causing anxiety and depression…
we are blaming drugs and doctors and drug
companies…how about what we are doing to ourselves..
with sugar
I am now reading ANATOMY OF AN EPIDEMIC for the second time…
it is a disturbing beautiful book….it is making me think that just
changing the words is not going to be enough…
and anti-psychiatry has a problem….
it is trying to eliminate the good with the bad..
I don’t think that will work…I don’t know what will work..
maybe the truth…no bs
how about I am sick and I want to get well..
I know when I am well…no one has to tell me..
words are very important….
a word schizophrenia is used…
we can eliminate that word…
what do we have in its place…
is psychosis appropriate…maybe..
so lets say psychosis…what causes psychosis..
probably many things..do we understand psychosis..
do we know what is causing psychosis in a person..
I was psychotic one time…I have no idea what caused it..
I was told it was due to open heart surgery…
I don’t think we know very much about the cause of psychosis..
dr kelmenson————I was just thinking…
you are not going to stamp out the psychiatry thing…
we the people are the problem…when we are suffering
we want a quick fix…and we will get it somewhere…
we the people need to be educated about what might
deal with the CAUSE of our suffering..
and suffering is worse than unhappiness..
when one of us is suffering bad we are going to take a valium no matter whether mental illness is a myth or whatever..
PAT—can you say more…I feel so sorry that you are suffering…
those mean voices sound terrible..
thank you so much for telling about you..
I am sick..i just want to be accepted as is…and belong SOMEWHERE…
I don’t know what caused my first panic attack..
it came out of the blue…it was like a seizure..
it was very unreal for me…
registered—what causes panic attacks..
I need your help
but what caused my very first panic attack…
that was not a choice for me..
this sounds like a word game…
when I have an appt with my psychiatrist…
am I a patient…is he a doctor..
I like my psychiatrist…he sees me for an hour..
what should I be telling him about the celexa that I take…
I am unhappy…why am I unhappy…what should I call
my unhappiness..
dragon—-a psychiatrist should not be allowed to force a person into a hospital..
what should a psychiatrist do if the person starts stabbing themselves
in the office…
thanks dragon
dr kelmenson—-I am trying to understand…
is physical illness and physical health a myth…
laura and james…I just want to cry…both of you are doing such a wonderful thing…
it renews my faith in people who are loving and not hating…I want to be part of this..
profound….
probably not many doctors are talking about nutrition and irritability…
we haven’t learned….
we want a quick fix…
and the quick fix is there..
reality will come back to bite us..
reality does not go away…
kids brains aren’t even developed..
the kids problem is just awful..
thank you very much for sharing your story…you helped me
my psychiatrist is looking at this site…he does not like what is being
said about psychiatry and psychiatrists…I try to tell him that people here
have been hurt very badly by psychiatry and psychiatrists…he doesn’t like being
included in the bad part of psychiatry…he thinks psychiatry is mostly bad…
but he says you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater…he likes
critical psychiatry….getting rid of the bad…he sees psychiatry as being very sick..
my psychiatrist asked if I was interested in light therapy….
I was and I tried using his light box for awhile..
I don’t think it helped…but it did help my friend…
my psychiatrist gets paid by medicare…he uses the
diagnosis of mdd…but he tells me he doesn’t think the dsm
is useful…only to get paid…he just thought maybe the light
would help my depression….I have had a major problem with
depression….I still am searching for the cause of my breakdowns..
is bright light therapy helping anyone here…
is it helping the suffering that we experience…
bio/psy/soc model of causation is still here…
biological research should be encouraged….
neuroscience should be encouraged…
genetic research should be encouraged…
all over the world..
is all neuroscience research unscientific….
is all genetic research flawed…
the important thing is to keep an open mind..
until all the evidence is in on this…
we need to search for the truth…
whatever that is…
my psychiatrist believes that a valium 5 every once in awhile will be helpful..
I am 86 yo…what is the problem with that…
are you talking about the abuse of benzos….how about the use of benzos prescribed by a doctor..
physical activity and exercise is ONE thing that we can do to feel better…
the doctor cannot do it for us…and the drugs may make it harder to do..
I like what is going on here…
bio/psy/soc model of causation….it still stands..
no matter how much we think we know…
I am not very hopeful about our species….psychiatry is sick…
our country is sick….our world is sick…most people are not
motivated for significant change….change would involve a
massive change in human behavior…I don’t think that will happen…
but I am just an old guy with mood problems….
yes steve
thank you very much Richard…what has helped you the most in your life…
yes rachel777….I learned from that psychiatrist/glasser
about the 7 caring habits….
which I try to use in treating—-the side that blames myself….
another cause of outpatient deterioration….
my psychiatrist believes that he and the person have total confidentiality..
just like the lawyer has…why not the psychiatrist…
my psychiatrist also believes that psychiatry should be talking about
biology———healthy eating and healthy exercise and healthy
relationships…see dr lustig book the Hacking of the American Mind..
my psychiatrist thinks that anti-psychiatry is the wrong way to go…
he believes there is good and bad in psychiatry…
he wants to take down the bad stuff…
you take down the bad stuff with evidence and facts..
and you keep pushing the evidence in every way possible…
but you are wrong in taking down the good…
my psychiatrist believes this anti-psychiatry movement
is going to have an overall negative effect…
psychiatry needs drastic changes but a frontal attack
usually causes more problems than it helps…
we patients have the possibility of pushing the TRUTH not lies..
that is where the strength is….my psychiatrist wants big changes
which might include him being out of work…
but he wants to go where the TRUTH is….bio/psy/soc
not bio/bio/bio………
my psychiatrist does not use dsm5 diagnosis….
my psychiatrist is paid cash only…
because my psychiatrist thinks that
the psychiatry specialty has a sickness..
the present model is bio/bio/bio and $$$…
and I have a mental illness… I say that
because I do not know the cause of my
depression suffering and neither does he…
we are working on it…
my psychiatrist believes in the bio/psy/soc model of causation….
I do not like the anti-psychiatry thing…
it will cause more harm than good…
szasz talked about anti-coercive psychiatry..
I like that …
I have been helped by a very good psychiatrist..
and to eliminate psychiatry you are eliminating
biology which is not a good move..
we don’t know very much…
we think we know about mental suffering…
but we just don’t know very much…
dr kelmenson….we still have the model of causation———–bio/psy/soc…
I see different disciplines vying for fame and fortune…psychologist against psychiatrist..
but we need to focus on the truth that we eventually find..
why are the words mental health so destructive….
I don’t understand …I want to know
words are not enough…
ok… anti-psychiatry would like psychiatry to no longer exist..
critical psychiatry isn’t there yet…what is it all about..
i have a mood problem…i have had 3 breakdowns..
i still have a depression problem…i am very unhappy…
i see a psychiatrist every 3 months…i shouldn’t do that..
i take an anti-depressant….i should stop that now..
i have been helped by a psychologist…that was wrong..
i was dependent on valium for many years..that was wrong..
i should never ever take another valium…
i still don’t know the cause of my depression problem…
i am told here that the cause model is psy/soc…
i am told here that i shouldn’t pay any attention to the bio..
am i thinking right…
thanks for your ideas steve….my main problem with anti-psychiatry…
it is too extreme…it is mostly talk and no effective walk…it will cause more problems than it is helping…my psychiatrist wants to change the system but
he will not join a radical group because people will just get hurt even more..
my psychiatrist believes people have to change the way they are treating each other….people are being very violent and blaming….we need to go after
the perpetrators not the whole system….
it is unbelievable to me that there are not more comments here….
this is at the heart of what is going on…
anti-psychiatry is not going to work out…
thanks james….I see a problem here…I think dr double
views critical psychiatry as accepting only psychology
and sociology causes and not including biology…
I think this is a mistake….we don’t know enough yet
to eliminate biology…critical psychiatry should include
bio/psy/soc model of causation and treatment…
any comments about szasz or anti-psychiatry
I don’t like this anti-psychiatry thing…
I like the szasz thing –anti-coercive psychiatry…
am I understanding szasz correctly..
and doing away with the words mental illness
is a problem for a lot of us that are suffering
from who knows what…we do not know causes…
dragon…I like what you post…
but I thought that szasz was not anti-psychiatry…
but anti-coercive psychiatry…
abilify or valium…which is worse
I understand…I agree..i am hoping that you will be of great help to others…
which are safer benzos or anti-psychotics like abilify
meschelle—you really have been through awful stuff…thanks for sharing your suffering…
I still believe tho that there are some psychiatrists that are helpful…and all of psychiatry is not bad..
but the psychiatry system is very badly broken down…I was taken care of by a psychiatrist and psychologist
a long time ago that were very good and helpful…psychiatry used to pay attention to psychology and sociology together with biology….not just drugs drugs drugs….
I take citalopram…I am trying to stop this medicine…
I follow a medication guide approved by the usa fda…
there is a black box warning at the very top about SUICIDE..
it says pay particular attention to new or sudden changes
in mood/thoughts/behavior/actions/feelings….
WHEN THE DOSE IS CHANGED….
this is important information about withdrawal problems…
thanks james and professor read…
and now I am 86yo and I find this world to be
very very very CRUEL………..
wow…such an important blog…I also am very sensitive….
thank you all for your helpful comments..i believe that I
have a mental illness whatever that means…I see a psychiatrist..
I don’t think he knows what is causing all this suffering..
how many persons are helped more than hurt by using an anti-depressant..
this neurotoxin talk is quite extreme…certainly the ssri’s are drugs…
and drugs always have a downside..i found that out..
what a very good podcast again…thanks james and dr Moncrieff…..
when I was depressed I would have taken anything for relief…
that is a problem…and my friends believe doctor knows best..
with all their pills for all the suffering…we are not dealing with causes..
and the anti-psychiatry talk is making it worse for me…
what a very good blog here….let the drug thing wither away and walk away….yes yes..
and healthy eating and healthy exercise is at the top…but it is hard work..
but we have a very big problem…people want a quick fix…
dragon slayer —this article is helpful because it talks and shows ways that people can be healthy…
it shows ways that work…this article is more than good intentions…
I have been helped with these ways…I want to focus on what helps me..
just talking about the terrible things that don’t work just makes me sick..
good work CW…
I did find the word psychological…sorry
craig…good work…I don’t see the word psychological…
wallenfan——excellent post…no one pays attention to lifestyle changes….they would rather blame something or somebody than get down to treating this complicated problem…thank you very much…
I would add another name here ….dr Robert lustig and his book the HACKING OF THE AMERICAN MIND….sugar is very dangerous and we love it…
my belief is based on a family history of mental illness…
I cannot leave this blog without making a statement..
I HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS….I am very old now…86 yo
it has been disabling…but I also have had some good years..
and my illness has been affected by genetic factors…
bio/psy/soc….
dr kelmenson rules out genes as being important….
but we just now are finding out how important they are…
gene variants may explain some about differences in behavior..
please see the new book by Robert Sapolsky—BEHAVE
I am not saying that psych meds are good for us..
FREE WILL is not that simple a concept..
dr kelmenson—-certain changes in the human genome affect human behavior…so we don’t have anything like perfect free will….human choices have limitations..
dr kelmenson——-so you do not believe that biology has anything to do with behavior..
there are studies showing that persons lacking enzyme activity in their brain…
have behavior problems….and it may have to do with their genome…
the journal Science 1993 reported that in a family…how about bio/psy/soc..
anyone here ever have a severe panic attack…
how do you explain a first severe panic attack having to do with FREE WILL…
I am not into pills…your statement NOT BIOLOGICALLY CAUSED…maybe has some problems if the cause of mental suffering is multifactorial….you don’t like the miracle pill idea…I don’t either..
the cause of mental suffering is multifactorial….it is very complex…not simple
bio/psy/soc….
the model of causation of mental suffering WILL NOT GO AWAY..
well I have to put my 2 cents in here…
I have a mental illness…
I was disabled for 4 years …
I was on social security disability for 4 years..
it was a life saver for me…
I also had a psychiatrist that helped me survive..
I am troubled by some of the comments on this blog..
yes
I will not let myself be taken down by arrogance…
I have a MENTAL ILLNESS…I am proud that I have survived
this awful thing…I give myself A MEDAL OF HONOR..
I have a mental illness….I am not a mental illness….
I have suffered enough….and I will look to the bio/psy/soc model…
to find help wherever it may be….I already have been helped by a psychiatrist
and a psychologist and a social worker…I give thanks to all who have helped me..
this podcast is helping me think even more about my troubled life…
I am very old and at the end of the line…I look back on my sadness and fears…
I care what others are saying about how they have been hurt…
but I see my hurt as having a mental illness…I know that most don’t like these words..
but I use them because it tells a story that I don’t want to be forgotten…
and I love the bio/psy/soc model of causation…it works for me…
I learned from the book that bio/bio/bio is not reality…
psy and soc are crucial to understand suffering….
and there is an article somewhere that saw a model bio/psy/soc/econ/pol..
was there anything else in his system that might be a problem….
also was there any brain tumor or other pathology…
thank you….very important information….
excellent comment steve
hey this book is really important
thanks again james and johann….I read the book…lost connections….I learned a lot…very helpful
i am not confident about this study….but i do pay very close attention to the BLACK BOX WARNING for the SSRIs that my friends are taking….???SUICIDE
steve really said it good—-psychiatry has been Bio-Bio-bio….it hasn’t worked…
but we shouldn’t go psy-psy-psy or soc-soc-soc….we need to stick with bio-psy-soc
steve that is good—bio-bio-bio….that is a quick way of explaining the problem…I like that
I don’t get this myth stuff…but I do understand the bio/psych/soc model of cause…
the anti-psychiatry movement is in trouble….one of the big reasons….most people suffering out there want a drug…they want a quick fix…and the psychiatrist will provide them with a drug…
violent anti-psychiatry will not accomplish anything but more suffering…
I hope we have NON-VIOLENT revolution….a lot of things need to be taken down…
1…how about spending some time finding out the CAUSES of mental/emotional suffering…
2…how about helping those in trouble without making a profit…not for profit health care…
james—-thank you… thank you…thank you….again you have chosen a spectacular person and book…I listened to the whole podcast…and I am going to get the book…there is so much anger everywhere and unhappiness….HARI offers some real solutions for us without violence..
a serious mistake is being made with the anti-psychiatry talk here…
it sounds more than anti-psychiatry…it sounds like anti-biology…
and that is a very serious error…the cause model should be bio/psych/soc…
reality will come back to bite you..
dr kelmenson——-you seem to like the word sadness rather than depression…if you have ever been disabled from a mood problem yourself you wouldn’t be using the word sad…
good question…we will wait a long time for an answer to this problem….
ok…lets talk some about what might help those persons suffering with anxiety and depression..
we have been talking about what words not to use…and down with drugs…and down with psychiatry..and down with biology….is there any help with dietary interventions using TRYPTOPHAN..maybe the serotonin neurotransmitter system is important for our happiness…what do you all think about this biology talk…are there any WORDS here that you don’t like…please tell me…
we do not know that much about the brain and mind…we just don’t know enough…
and most people are under a lot of stress and want a pill for everything…
brains are inflamed and people don’t feel good…they will get a pill or a drug or anything to get relief..
you will have to get rid of a lot more than psychiatry….you will have to fix the way people are living..
thanks feelindiscouraged….many good ideas
what is the excellent point…I still haven’t learned…is the point no psychiatry
thank you bcharris and dr kelmenson….so I don’t have a mental illness…I should not see a psychiatrist….I should take magnesium…and my panic attacks are just something normal…how about cognitive behavioral therapy…I am in the trenches and am trying to understand what you all are talking about…I would like to know exactly what is causing my problem…and what I should tell my loved ones..
I need help here…there is a lot of talk…I have a problem with panic attacks…
do I have panic….do I have attacks…
and what is causing these panic attacks…
do I need help…where should I get help…
what kind of help…I would like some help for this…
it is causing a problem in my life…
frankly I don’t care what szasz wrote…
are sick people sick oldhead
dr kelmenson—-very good question…WHAT ARE THEY…what is the true meaning of a person having panic attacks…
where are you dr brogan…what do you have to say now..
dr brogan….I am not sure what you are saying about inflammation…what is the exact cause of the inflammatory markers…thanks
I want better mental health and happiness for me….and I am looking to healthy eating and healthy exercise for help with my mood disorder…I really like what you are posting here bonnie and julia…I believe that good nutrition is vital for brain health…and I love the bio/psych/soc model for good mental health….and bad mental health
I think I might be helped for free… in a group of other depressed persons….I don’t like money being made from sickness…
I was helped by a psychiatrist…
I like to see /facts and evidence/science….coming from biology and psychology and sociology in an integrated fashion….I see a lot of fighting over who is going to get the money and power…mainly between psychology and psychiatry…they both need fixing…..maybe we need to pay more attention to sociology…yes
it looks to me that we don’t know very much….but maybe I am speaking for me….I don’t know very much
tirelessfighter3–yes the abusers and society are there and the major problem…but my problem was not that…MY PROBLEM was psychological and after many years I still don’t KNOW what caused my breakdowns…and I don’t think we know very much about the causes of mental health problems…so I will search everywhere for things that will HELP ME…maybe NUTRITION…
I need to say more here….I do understand anger at all the abuse that is going on…but I don’t want to bash everything that is out there….I personally have been helped during my depressed times by several persons…I have been helped by a doctor/a psychiatrist/a psychologist/a minister/a friend.. with my depression and anxiety…and now I will look for help also from the persons that are studying nutrition and metabolism and neuroscience…I will continue looking anywhere for HELP not hurt…I am not in favor of bashing everything..i understand the anger but we only have to FIGHT the persons that are hurting us…
I don’t understand why the anger about naturopathy…maybe they can be helpful for my problem with depression….shouldn’t we hear what they have to say…
again james you are going good…and thanks to Jennifer…really important information that could be helpful to those like myself with mental health problems…besides medications
what an awful situation….I feel sad…and mad
from the littleturtle
dr kelmenson——–you are right on…the drugging of children is awful…the drugging of everyone one is awful…we are drugging all of our problems ….and we live in an awful dictatorial world of power and money..
I still have a mental illness….and I am going to pay a lot of attention to NUTRITION and my mental health…and Julia and bonnie are doing great research here to help us with mental illness…I am not interested in taking psychiatry down….I want critical psychiatry…I want to look at what helps not start a war with the drug companies and psychiatrists…I just want to find things that work without any harm…thank you from the littleturtle…
hey wait a minute here…so I no longer have a mental illness…then what do I have wrong with me…what hit me and disabled me…where do I turn for help…well one place might be about nutrition..it might be supplementation to help me…what are some of you telling me…where is the real help…what is the real truth here…drugs are not going to do it…I am screwed up…what should we call that…the screwed up syndrome??? I find a lot of arrogance here…
you can talk all you want about psychiatry and mental illness…
but biology and neuroscience will be around…reality will not go away…
what a good blog….very good comments by everyone…wow…what problems we have…the drugging of kids..and how we might help kids in other ways…we have a lot of SICKNESS and we are popping pills for everything…WE ARE NOT EATING HEALTHY…WE ARE NOT EXERCISING HEALTHY..we are not choosing wisely.
the cdc says 86 million American adults are pre-diabetic….and 9 out of 10 don’t know it..
so I wonder about kids….this has to do about biology and neuroscience and most people aren’t paying attention..
scott—every good doctor needs to present the good and the bad…
what are the side effects and problems with using mdma..
I need to hear it from you…you have some experience with it…
I am sure that it isn’t all good…I hear it works on the gaba genes….
thank you
I can see that we don’t know very much….but we will know more if we are still around..
and mdma wont be that important….
thanks Richard….bio/bio/bio…that is funny
Richard—very good response…
can you explain to me why you want to take down biology…
what is wrong with the bio/psych/soc model…
thanks from the little turtle…
doesn’t whitaker support critical psychiatry….
psychiatry needs a lot of help…it has an illness….our country has an illness.
we all need to work on this one…it has to do with moral decay.$$$$$$$$$
merry Christmas and happy solstice and happy holidays and happy to all.. no matter what your beliefs …from the littleturtle
samruck2——–the pellagra story is interesting….in the early 1900 hundreds in the south many people were put in state asylums….they were psychotic and they couldn’t help them..and they died there..finally a public health doctor found that they were not getting niacin in their diet…they just didn’t know….was this biology …now today there may be chronic inflammation of the brain because of the way we are eating….is that true…I don’t know…but we need to find out why we are getting mentally sick…is it bio or psych or soc…or all of it….YOU CANNOT TAKE BIOLOGY OUT OF THE EQUATION WITHOUT CAUSING HARM…I know this is not about your wife…but it is biology…
the worst way to change psychiatry is this anti-psychiatry movement…the very best way is critical-psychiatry….Robert whitaker would agree…the trouble with people now is that they want to go to war about everything..you need to attack what is wrong about psychiatry…not the part that is right….underneath a lot of this fight is psychologists against doctors because the doctors are in power…the truth is not about power…it is about what works and is right on…you need to change hearts and minds..and you wont do it by fighting and abusing those not in power….
steve–doctors have the upper hand…people want pills…and doctors are there to give them….the money goes to doctors…..people want a quick fix and psychology cant provide that….what do you think…
i just thought of something…could this anti-psychiatry thing have to do with the old war between psychiatry and psychology…psychologist against the psychiatrist…and a lot of us are getting pulled into their warfare…it may have nothing to do with truth….it may have to do with POWER..yes
dear nancy99—-thanks…I decided that myself…I have had several close friends kill themselves…I think about the stigma of being called mentally ill..
my friends were called mentally ill…well I want to stand up for all of us.. and say I am mentally ill also …what do you all out there want to say about that…
I have had an awful mood disorder with 3 disabling breakdowns….I will stand there and be a human being that is EQUAL to all the abusers out there…
my final statement…
I have a mental illness…
I have been abused by the psychiatry system…
the psychiatry system is sick…but i will not abuse it..
i believe in the bio/psych/soc model of causation…
we really don’t know very much about thought and mood problems…
even though i am very old i am fighting to get at the TRUTH…
I am not going to get on an anti-biological psychiatry bus…that will lead to a frontal assault and a form of warfare that wont deal with the problems….for us that have been abused…we better not abuse others in our search for the TRUTH..
bingo
wow sam….you understand
I was abused by the system also…
I am one of them…
but I want to search for the truth wherever…
I would like to challenge the idea that mental illness is a myth…my psychiatrist(1966-1968)that really helped me never believed that he knew the cause of my mental illness….he saw psychiatry as a medical specialty that looked at the bio/psych/soc model of cause…my mental illness was a mix of all three…
my mental illness was not a myth…
I have a mental illness…it is a badge of honor for me…I am very old…I don’t follow any special people…I search for truth…I don’t equate chemical imbalance with mental illness…how do you define mental illness…
slaying the dragon— I don’t equate mental illness with chemical imbalance…
i don’t disagree with that…there are psychiatrists out there that are ready to abandon ship and join the anti-psychiatry movement….but not if you throw insults about their character…psychiatry will go down when most of the people are not willing to take all the pills for every problem ….people don’t want to give up on their pills…they will learn hopefully…but it may take a very long time…
I need to make a statement here….I have had a MENTAL ILLNESS for 65 years so far…you can talk all you want to about anti-psychiatry ..and I want to talk about anti-psychiatry but I will not believe that biology is out as far as causation…it may even turn out to be the most important…we just don’t know yet…but don’t try and take down the fact that there are a lot of us who have a mental illness…I have been helped by a psychiatrist big time…and a psychologist big time…and a minister big time…all of the above..you cant ever take away REALITY…wherever it is…and I belong on MIA just like the rest of you…MIA is not just taking psychiatry down…it is searching for the TRUTH..
bcharris—-you said it better than I could…
i don’t think we know very much about the cause and treatment/cure of serious mental health problems…from littleturtle
excellent thinking steve…the focus on ideas and models that work…yes
dr kelmenson….only dealing with psych/soc problems is a problem…I don’t think this website MIA is strictly the way you are presenting it…WE DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH AT THIS TIME TO RULE OUT BIOLOGY as a possible cause of ??? mental suffering…we need doctors and psychologists and social workers and lawyers and religious leaders and maybe the janitor…
I want to make clear where I am coming from….the DSM belongs in the trashcan….the drugging of America is a tragedy…the treatment options are very iffy…psychiatry is sick…but we must now look very carefully at what is causing our suffering….what are the CAUSES…I believe the best model of cause is bio/psych/soc…
not just psych…not just soc…not just bio…
but bio/psych/soc..
don’t forget BIOLOGY…it can come back to bite you…from littleturtle….
remember the problem with pellagra early in the 20th century in the south..
you can talk all you want but biology will not go away…from the littleturtle….the way you eat and exercise is crucial for brain health….and brain health is crucial for mind health…healthy habits are absolutely necessary and should not be pushed away from the discussion…bio/psych/soc
dr kelmenson—I think you are pushing biology out the door…freud wouldn’t do that…
thanks steve…you are a good thinker here…
I use the term mental illness because I am old and ready to die…I don’t mind all the bad things associated with those terms…to me it is a badge of honor…
I have a mental illness…I have been helped by a psychiatrist…I have been helped by a psychologist…I have been helped by a minister…I have been helped by a friend….I have been helped by dr breggin…I have survived this awful world…I have been helped by mad in America….but I am not willing to take everything down…
what is causing all the mental health problems…how should we be treating mental health problems…
why are there so many suicides…
I am not in favor of eliminating psychiatry or psychology…we just need to be better at understanding causes and better at treatment..i am not in favor of anti-psychiatry..i want to follow truth wherever that goes….
tirelessfighter3—–my psychiatrist and psychotherapist do not prey on me..
they are helping me…are you saying that I should not have a doctor or psychologist helping me..also a minister helps me…what do you suggest…
truth793810—–good thought…do you mean a different approach to research or treatment or both…I think we need to have all kinds of approaches…I have no idea what this schizophrenia thing is…
it looks like we don’t understand the causes of schizophrenia…I think it is unwise to throw out biology and neuroscience…we must consider every possible bit of evidence…what is causing this very strange state of mind..
thanks jancarol
how about whatever works for you…from littleturtle [bio/psych/soc]…
jancarol———-good info you are giving here…have you seen anyone benefit long term from abilify augmentation….
what a terrible problem with this abilify….the money that was made $$$$$$$$$$…and the dangers..
if a doctor wants to augment they need to recommend healthy eating and healthy exercise…
I have a MENTAL ILLNESS….I have been helped by a psychiatrist….with psych drugs…it in no way took away my free will to cope with lifes struggles….I also have been helped by a psychologist and a minister….two friends also helped me…I do not believe that mental illness is a myth…it is real and we need to find the many causes…my model is bio/psych/soc…we don’t know that much at this time..anti-psychiatry is too extreme….I like critical psychiatry….searching for the truth…
dr wood is here to help change psychiatry….we need her with us….I do not like the attacks that some are making….I have a MENTAL ILLNESS and I have been helped by a psychiatrist..i am for CRITICAL PSYCHIATRY not extremism….we should be very careful about what we want to throw out…and we should not treat dr wood badly the way some of us have been abused…
there is a lot of talk here….i am not sure how much help…i have a couple of thoughts…anti-psychiatry is too extreme…it will backfire…and i like the bio/psych/soc model of causation..and i have a MENTAL ILLNESS and it is not going away….and i don’t like $$$$$$being made off of mental health…it should be for free…from littleturtle..
in rebranding psychiatry it seems that the medical model has to go….in the process of doing that I hope that we don’t throw out the biological piece …..I like the bio/psych/soc model of looking for ways to treat the awful suffering that we go through…whatever works for each one of us…and if someone likes the medical model what is the big problem….do we have to squelch every last vestige of all the problems brought on by big power and big $$$$$$$$$$$…we need to go after the truth no matter where we find it….from the littleturtle
ok…you do away with psychiatrists…you do away with psychiatric hospitals…you do away with the DSM….you do away with all prescribed psych drugs…..what are you suggesting for the care of all the persons with mental health problems…who will work at this…and how will they be paid…
my psychiatrist helps me….I have seen him for 19 years..and a psychiatrist I had a long time ago actually helped me understand how a good psychiatrist can save a life….that psychiatrist saved
my life….so I have a problem with extreme anti-psychiatry…and I do see the dangers of psychiatry today….and I see the dangers of general medicine and its treatment of chronic diseases..
why cant we just have the original psychiatry———–bio/psych/social…
Stephen I have spent many years with those damn psych drugs…and I do not like the dsm….I was helped and hurt by my drugs..right now I cant get off my celexa…I can understand why you are anti-psychiatry…and I understand why I am critical-psychiatry….
anti-psychiatry is too extreme…I like critical psychiatry….very critical psychiatry…the dsm and drugs are a big problem..
anti-psychiatry is too extreme…I like critical psychiatry….we don’t know enough yet to be anti-psychiatry and anti-biology…when we are talking about mental health problems…too extreme
I don’t think we know very much about mind/emotional/behavioral problems…we are working on it….treatments are there but are not workng out too well….there is a lot of talk here but I don’t see much
success…at least not enough…it seems we are arguing about what words to use…
dr noel hunter is spectacular…what a wonderful podcast…I could follow this lady to hell and back..
good going james…from the littleturtle…..
interesting blog….I like the MAD PRIDE idea…I have had a very long experience with mental suffering…and the old term was mental illness…I still have PRIDE in being one of the persons with
a serious disabling MENTAL ILLNESS…I have my medal of honor for having a MENTAL ILLNESS…and no one here can take that away from me…I am one of the old guard…MENTAL ILLNESS PRIDE…and I have serious problems with drugs and diagnosis to solve these problems…
I am shocked at the lack of comments about this vital subject….it was so well done by dr firth…
what is wrong out there…where is the mad-in-America people…are we just trying to take psychiatry down…and we don’t pay attention to what might help…
Emily—-I really like what you are doing…you seem like a good person..i personally like critical psychiatry because there is a lot to be critical about drugs and diagnosis…but I am not liking anti-psychiatry…I have a problem attacking every psychiatrist in the world…my psychiatrist is one of the good guys…he just doesn’t understand the terrible abuses that are going on in the official psychiatry world of diagnosis and drugs….he is blinded by the way he was trained…and he is afraid of getting sued for not following the standard of care…
really an excellent podcast…absolutely vital information about the biological side of mind/body problems…I will be following dr firth….nutritional therapy and exercise therapy is crucial in the treatment of the mind/body/spirit…thank you from the little turtle
words can have great power for good and bad….love is patient…love is kind…
from the little turtle
thanks again…
thanks sentc15…from the little turtle
whatever we say here will not remove the importance of understanding causes…and causes are found in the interaction of biology/psychology/sociology…all three ….not one or the other…that is why it is so hard to understand …..we will know more as we go along…
what would be the intervention——-I couldn’t say steve…
I don’t think we know very much about psychotic disorders..
and Francesca—interesting idea..
steve—–it is important to understand all the causes of the psychotic disorders..and are you sure about your statement that you CANT DO ANYTHING about genetics….
I have been thinking about this problem with the genes…I don’t think genetic research concerning schizophrenia should be slowed down…we still don’t know that much….we need to research every possible angle…this is a terrible thing to have…
so we still don’t know the causes of schizophrenia…what is causing this terrible condition…
james moore—thank you for another very good podcast….schizophrenia is such a terrible awful problem for all of us…very difficult problem…
dr Moncrieff said something very important———–“when negative emotions or unusual behaviors are not driven by a specific bodily mechanism we should approach them as we approach other human behavior”….at this time neuroscience is just getting underway…we don’t know a lot about bodily mechanisms and brain mechanisms…I think that much of the anxiety and depression we are seeing may be a MIX of bio/psych/soc …americans are not behaving in healthy ways and this may be effecting the way their brains are working….the CDC says that 86 million adult americans have pre-diabetes and 9 out of 10 don’t know it…how might that effect the way people are feeling and behaving…and I would like to add that I don’t like the term mental illness …and I am having trouble withdrawing from my last little bit of celexa…
szasz says————–“and hence mental illness is not an illness”..I don’t think that is proven yet…
my problems with depression
involved biological and psychological and social factors….and I was treated/helped in all three areas…I have a mental illness…and I pay attention to all of the above…
beautiful kat…what a powerful story…it says so much…thank you…thank you..
from the littleturtle
dr kelmenson has talked about a very important problem ….the drugging of kids…
but MARDY9 has brought up something that might help the problem…very important..
we need to push over and over the connection between NUTRITION AND BRAIN function..
kids are not eating healthy…
do we know the CAUSES of mental suffering….we just don’t know…but it is not good to throw out biology because of the problems with the present somatic treatments…
good blog…I think the problem we have today is very difficult…
we still don’t know the CAUSES of most mental suffering…
so we can go ahead and treat the symptoms with any kind of treatment..
whether it works or not…I see another problem here…many persons
would like to throw out biology from the model of causation bio/psych/soc..
I don’t understand what you are saying here…
let me ask you a biology question….
does the serotonin system in the brain have anything to do with mental health…
again dr berezin….do you have any thoughts about the model of causation—–bio/psych/soc/econ/pol…are you making things too simple..
it seems you want to eliminate biology…that could be a big mistake…
dr kelmenson—-I think you have presented very important ideas here…
I have another idea to add that is also important…many people are stressed…they have many behaviors that are not healthy…one of those behaviors is not eating healthy…they are not getting certain key nutrients such as tryptophan and omega-3….any life problem that happens will easily take them down and anxious…what do you think about this biologic factor added to your real life thoughts…
l
there is a real problem here with simple thinking….either/or…either/or..
people want to throw out biology…they just want psych or soc…
it is dangerous to throw out biology…mental illness is a complex problem..
we need to keep bio/psych/soc as a model at least..
mr moore——-I think there is a problem with trying to make things too simple….either bio or psych or soc…..we need to look at the evidence from all three disciplines…thanks for your work
james moore—-I am really impressed with what you are doing…
I have had a mental illness off and on for 65 years…and I have seen psychiatry change from psychology to biology and back again….
we think we know a lot but do we really know how to handle SUICIDE..
dr kelmenson——-I am having a problem with your concept of mental illness…I have a mental illness… it was mental and I was ill.. I didn’t have just “unpleasant feelings”…
and it wasn’t due to just my “own problems’….
I really don’t know what caused all my problems with depression and anxiety…but my life has been broken apart….and I don’t believe that this was only a personal moral failure…I think there also was something biological going on in my brain….
dr kelmenson—I usually refer to my problems as “mental illness” in honor
of all my friends and my cousin that have killed themselves…they had more than unpleasant feelings….I don’t see mental illness as you do…
what do you think of the model of causation…bio/psych/soc/econ/political
what is the problem with the kids that are being treated…
we must look to causes..
we need to look to the model— bio/psych/social/econ/political
i am a person with a mental illness… for a very long time…
i like the talk from antipsychiatry and critical psychiatry and psychiatry…
sounds very good….I am still hoping that someday
information about mental health and illness will be free to all..
I have a problem about making money when it
involves mental health…but I have a mental illness..
yes….we all are in a lot of trouble…
we all have problems…not just that lady…
mental states….it is really hard to understand what that is all about…
but to throw out biology and psychiatry seems to….
throw out the baby with the bath water….
what we need to throw out is everything that isn’t true…
throw out what doesn’t work…
throw out the corrupt$$$$$$$$$$$$$$…
throw out the corrupt people……….
and keep what is true and right…
dr Moncrieff—–what is causing all the depression we are seeing…
I was really hoping that dr Moncrieff would wrap this thing up with some concluding remarks…
maybe we have been horribly off topic..but there are some important points that need some response…
doesn’t sound good for mental health…
I had a similar problem…
I think you are right on yetanotheraccount…
ok I have heard about a model for determining causes of mental suffering…
I really like it…the psych/social/bio/econ/pol model..
what do you all think about that…
I don’t know what to say….I thought it was very important to study neuroscience…
maybe we will understand better why people get depressed and suffer..
I have had awful problems with depression….I want to know more about serotonin…
I hope dr Moncrieff says something here…
what does biology have to do with mental states..
what does neuroscience have to do with mental states…
do you think we should continue studying about the serotonin system in the brain..
does any of this say anything about mental suffering…
so we are talking about mental states…and the words we are using…
words can be very damaging…but there is one word I want to keep talking about…
that word is biology…and what does biology have to do with mental states…
we need critical thinking here…not just emotion…
I don’t think we know very much about the CAUSES of anxiety and depression and suicide…
whatever words you use to describe these sufferings….
I lost a friend..she was a nursing student….she was hospitalized and given the diagnosis of schizophrenia….and she was treated with thorazine…a short while after she was found dead….suicide…that was back in 1963…I still remember her believing that she was being treated for a chronic lifetime disorder…very sad…
maradel–you are not the only one…I also don’t think that removing psychiatry from medicine will have any beneficial effect…the society problems run very very deep…most people WANT a quick fix…we have fast food and now we have fast moods…
it can be found in the hospital and community psychiatry journal H&CP
june 1993/ letters to the editor/a new health care model…..
Richard—–I need to know where you are coming from..
what do you think of the psych/soc/bio/econ/pol model of causation
of mental suffering…
dr berezin—–I like your focus on effective treatments…a positive approach..i don’t like all this hatred….treatment is based on causation…
I don’t think we know what causes most mental suffering…I am concerned about throwing out anything that might lead to understanding why we suffer so much…thanks for your talk here…
why would you want to save psychiatry as a discipline????????
psychiatry is not the problem…the problem is greedy people and $$$$$$$$ ..plus some bad science….
hey…this anti-psychiatry thing is pretty strong here…
so what do you have in its place—-psychology…
but you still have to deal with causation of mental suffering..
how about the psych/soc/bio/econ/pol model of causation…
plus who knows what…
I don’t think there is an understanding of what psychiatry is supposed to be…
it is not supposed to be neurology….it is not supposed to be psychology..
it is a discipline in between….it is supposed to look at all aspects of mental suffering…
the closest model would be psych/soc/bio/econ/pol…of causation and anything else…
so what has happened…the drug companies have taken over…the money interests are in charge..
that needs to be taken down….but do you think it is a good thing to take down the search for truth..
$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and hatred needs to be taken down….yes
dr kelmenson———
what do you think about nutritional psychiatry…
are all psychiatrists the same…
do we now know the cause of all the mental health problems…
what do you think of the psych/soc/bio/econ/pol model of causation
i have a major depression disorder….i want help from others who have the same problem..
i don’t want help from someone who is getting paid to help me…i want someone who knows what it is like…and i don’t want money $$$$ involved at all..i don’t like what is happening everywhere where $$$$$$$$$$$$ is being made…i want someone who is motivated by love alone..
my best peer support was a group of depressed persons and all the persons were helping each other…we were all equal as human beings…and no money was involved…i am interested in helping without hurting…
sounds really really good…
I have a problem with charging a fee…
I believe that attempts to get at the truth should be available to all…for free
thanks sera….it is not helpful to be calling people names….it is more important to be dealing with major issues…and why are so many people stressed/angry/depressed and on mood altering substances….like alcohol
interesting ideas…I think that there is a lot that WE JUST DONT KNOW about the mind/brain…
psychiatry will continue to be strong no matter what conference you attend…or what you do..
but it will go down because it is not based on reality and what is true…lots of people are getting sicker…health has to be based on a different model that includes soc/psych/bio/econ/pol ….plus– the kitchen sink…
humanbeing….the word is not that important….
I would hope that neuroscientists would keep working on understanding the brain and mind…I am glad that we found out about PELLAGRA..it was awful until we knew how to deal with it…
I would be interested in forming groups that are pro not anti….how about PRO MENTAL HEALTH..
dr kelmenson—what do you think about the model bio/psych/soc for evaluating problems of depression…
we are not done here…what are the causes of depression…I think most of the time it is due to stress… and everything that stress does to your brain…
good thinking Richard…and very good posting…
I am a doctor and a patient and I have been fighting the psychiatric
system$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for 50 years…I haven’t made much headway..
I do need to say something that is very important…
we shouldn’t lose sight of this… in our fight against untruths…
each person suffering must be evaluated biologically/psychologically/
socially/economically/and other factors like what is going on politically…
thanks Richard for your work…and thanks to dr kelmenson…
i have been thinking about this…
I would like to use a different model for depression….
I want to use the bio/psych/social/economic/political model for depression…
in our attempt to get away from the medical model we are being much too narrow…
dr kelmenson….I am not sure of something here…how are you defining depression…
can you be more specific…
do you have anything to say about prediabetes and depression…
this is so important…thank you dr kelmenson…there is the placebo effect…yes…and people are not facing their real problems…but there is something else…doctors no longer take time to pay attention to chronic down moods CAUSED by prediabetes and subclinical hypothyroidism…
dr kelmenson—-wow…vital stuff..most people I talk to want a quick fix…we need to get $$$$$$$$$$$$$ out of helping people who are depressed and anxious…
maybe it would be helpful if psychiatrists also learned about nutritional psychiatry….besides just talking…
dr kelmenson—I thought psychiatry was supposed to be a discipline right between neurology and psychology…are you defining psychiatry now as a psychology discipline….I think psychiatry should stay in the middle….I don’t think we know the cause of schizophrenia….
this is an awful problem for patients and doctors…the whole system is geared for rapid solutions/quick/fast…….patients are the ones that suffer most…
very sad….what was the exact psychiatric diagnosis…did he have any medical diagnosis….what medications was he on at the time of death..
there are many problems understanding any suicide…assisted or not
hey doctor kelmenson….this is a very good question you are presenting…a good discussion so far….I wonder how you are defining mental illness…do we really know much about causes…we did have to know something about biology when we found out the cause of pellagra…it played havoc to the brain..
maybe until we find out the causes of mental illnesses….
we should do more talking and less drugging our patients…
15 minutes and an antidepressant is not going to do it…
dr breggin…what a brave person…you and ginger are so needed now…
we are behaving in so many ways to destroy human beings…you have really helped me…
when I was a young psychiatrist I was told to talk less and use more drugs…
Jocelyn…thank you…
benzo brains is helpful…
I was a patient that took valium 5 mg twice a day for years…
I started taking this benzo after my first panic attack…
the benzos are a big problem…
but I also worry about the use of abilify instead of a benzo for non-psychotic use..
the anti-psychotics are also a big problem…
thanks again for your help..
thanks peter…important problem….good news here
I see 2 more problems…
#1—the long term use of anti-depressants..
#2—the use of abilify with an anti-depressant for a person who is not psychotic…
which is worse …a benzo or abilify…
thank you kalina for being so helpful….
from an old retired psychiatrist…
Emily—-I am really impressed with the discussion here….I am a retired psychiatrist who has a
mood disorder/depression…you are really doing some good here..thank you
I am very upset about CHILDREN being drugged….that is a tragedy….from a retired very old doctor….I have a mental illness and I am a psychiatrist….I am sad and disappointed in the medical specialty of psychiatry…
when I went into psychiatry a very long time ago the concept I had in my mind was false….I thought psychiatry was a medical specialty that was in between psychology and neurology…I was wrong…in 1963 my training was about disease and drugs..I became unhappy about what was going on there…I developed my own model for understanding all this awful suffering-the bio/psych/social/economic/political model…It has been a battle fighting the STANDARD of psychiatric care….I threw the pdr and the dsm in the trash can…but psychiatry is still in my heart…..the psychiatry that I hope some day will be realized…we need to know what is CAUSING all this suffering and then prevent it….a DRUG is not going to do that most of the time…this is from a very old tired so-called mentally ill psychiatrist…. who is retired and doing research into the cause of mind problems..
i like to keep it simple…
i have a mental illness…
i was helped by a very good lady psychologist…
it worked for me…i don’t care what you call it…
beatrix…..thank you…thank you…thank you…
i would love to be with you in a group of
like minded people…i am 89 yo and am alone
even tho i have family…you are right on…
yes
thanks ekaterina..i find you very interesting…
i like you…and your psyche
i am impressed with DDA and how you have helped…
what a terrible problem…many systems are involved..
even some good psychiatrists have a big problem…
they can get sued if a child dies by suicide…no matter what
and we need to keep the good guys around…i need my psychiatrist
to talk to…not for psych drugs…
dr rose yesha…you are a precious soul…
your story is so moving…so helpful
thanks for your kindness
from the littleturtle
i have been helped by a psychotherapist…
i don’t care what the research says…
and i want face to face therapy ….
thanks very much
from the littleturtle
oldhead…the key issue here is nourishing your brain
with whole food plant based diet….it is part of
LIFESTYLE PSYCHIATRY…did you read that book …
this is the most important information
on mad in america that you will find…
it is up to you ….you can choose health
or sickness…
i have no idea about the causes of this suffering…
but i do not want lawful forced medication…
thanks stephen…
stephen…you don’t know what i have been thru….
i am not like you….each one of us is different…
but steve how can you say there
is no genetic basis for MY mental
illness…you and i can’t know that yet..
the neuroscientists are working on it…
that is what science is about…not just words…
steve you make good points…
but there is a problem when you
try to rule out biology causing serious mental problems….we still do not know
enough to say that genes have no
effect…..and neuroscience is working
hard on this….words do not stop
people looking…and scientists need
evidence not words…
steve i have a serious mental health problem….
and i feel most comfort in being with those
that say they have a mental illness…
i don’t think you can change reality just by changing
words….
i am depressed….i have a mental illness…
thanks steve for the above comment…
beautifully said…
but steve…how can i possibly know
whether nature or nurture is more
important for me…
steve i am having a problem here…
i think my breakdowns were caused
by three factors——bio and psy and soc…
and i certainly was looking for treatment
from somebody…what do you think…
truth to power…
don’t even think about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
thank you…what a kind person you are…
what problem do i have….
what should i call it…..
a nervous problem….a disorder…
a suffering….fear and panic is there…
what are the accepted words here
in this group…
blame this ….blame that…
how about getting at the real causes
of our suffering …..
thanks trm123…
david thank you so much for your story..
so real…so awful…so great…so sad…
but hopeful
anger is very important…..
but so is DO NO HARM….
i hope the womens revolution will not be silenced
any longer…..i hope it is non-violent….for all of us…
this blog is so important….
thanks sera….
we need to hear what is true…
thanks subvet416…
wow….what a great thing here…
thank you james and derek…
you have presented some hope here…
i am a veteran of the korean war….
thanks phoebe…we are not all the same…
each person is different…whatever twirls your turban..
yes steve…very well said…
amazing story annita…what a courageous person…
i really want to know more about you…
i couldn’t find your website…
the researchers may call for this…
but too much money$$$$$$$$$ is being made
from drugs of all kinds….i don’t see much
change happening….
all priests are not the same…
all psychiatrists are not the same…
and it is important to attack issues not people…
we need to attack the dsm and the misuse of medicines…
but james i am a littleturtle…and
your podcasts are very helpful..
thank you so much james for all the help
and truth that you have been sharing…
i look up to you…
i like the way you all are speaking out against this idea…..
thank you from the littleturtle….
good response steve…thanks
i do worry some about
how people are eating junk
and how that may effect
the brain…
thanks very much steve…
is it possible that at sometime in the
future that the neuroscientists
will discover some genetic abnormality
that explains some of the thinking/emotional
suffering that we are seeing right here…
oldhead and steve disagree about szasz….
did he throw out the BIO or not….
who is the expert here….what is it…
and WHY would you want to throw out the bio…
it doesnt make sense since we don’t know very much…
sounds like szasz throws out the bio…
are you throwing out the bio…
what did szasz say about mental health…
thanks steve….
is there anything that neuroscience has to say about
persons having different neurotransmitter systems…
steve what do you think about the model of causation——-
bio/psy/soc/econ/pol
was the mother depressed….was the daughter depressed…
does the word–depressed–have any meaning…
can the daughter be introverted and depressed…
blame and hate can eat away at your own psyche…
thanks for this joshua….
there may be another problem when obesity
is present…how about leptin resistance causing
some of the problem….with weight gain…
i support critical psychiatry….
anti-psychiatry is too extreme…
we need to know the causes of mental suffering…
i like LIFESTYLE MEDICINE….
psychologist says psy/psy/psy….
sociologist says soc/soc/soc….
psychiatrist says bio/bio/bio….
how about bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…
or pol/econ/soc/psy/bio…
or whatever…
thanks Julie…you are
a helpful person…
steve I can’t find any notice
on the home page…
why in the world would my comment be
awaiting moderation…doesn’t make sense…
thanks Julie for your good work
and caring for others…
if you have $$$$$$$$you can get any
diagnosis you want or desire or need…
I don’t think anti-psychiatry is going to be able
to take the big$$$$$$$$$$$ boys down…
how about the model of causation——–
bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…that was proposed
many years ago…
what do you think of Irvin yalom…
is he not good…
good comment Julie…
what do you think about
critical rather than anti
psychiatry…
very interesting life story Julie…
thanks for sharing ….
steve are you saying all mental misery is
social….sounds like soc/soc/soc….
it is necessary to find CAUSES of our misery…
and we need to go everywhere to find causes..
bio/psy/soc/econ/pol….model of causation
CRITICAL PSYCHIATRY
Robert whitaker…thank you….thank you …
you are doing great with CRITICAL psychiatry…
the new Yorker article is a step in the right direction…
oldhead —can you say more about your story…
1600 mg thorazine 40 years ago…forcefed…
schizophrenia diagnosis?????
thank you also…
no…critical psychiatry…
and it is here with laura…
getting a diagnosis about mental health problems…
I don’t think it is very helpful except to get paid…
each person is very different….it will not help
until we understand what is going on…like causes…
another good story is in THE NEW YORKER
APRIL 8TH—–THE BITTER PILL…why do we know
so little about how to stop taking psychiatry drugs…
wonderful……
oldhead and rachel777———————-
I don’t think the awful things in psychiatry
will be taken down by changing names..
I think we need to be supporting what is TRUE…
I have a mental illness…I have no idea what
caused it and the treatment didn’t wash it away..
after thinking about this blog……
I think there are serious problems
telling some people that there is no such
thing as MENTAL ILLNESS…..
back to ALEX…I watched the whole
film……VOICES THAT HEAL by ALEX G..
what a wonderful work by all of the persons…
this mental illness thing is certainly messy..
ALEX– thank you so much for your
comments here…I watched 10 minutes
of YOUR FILM and just cried with sadness
and happiness…I am going back to see
the rest of it…
I have a problem with this blog…
I think fred moss is a good guy…
and there are people who take
advantage of the system…
but most people who see a doctor
or psychiatrist are suffering…
and want help now…we are all
looking for the quick fix…everywhere..
but that doesn’t work with life very
well…
what would you say about this one—
a person comes to the doctor with
extreme anxiety…it is found out that
this person has a genetic problem…
a problem with very few GABA receptors…
is this person just going thru life like
everyone else…are we all the same…
do we have differences in the brain that
make life more difficult…who should this person
go to for help…
trying to wipe away the words
[mental illness] will not make
the problem go away,,,
we think we know a lot…but
I don’t think we know very much
about causes and treatments…
no good…into the trash can with dsm-5
thanks…good information…
important research…
CRITICAL PSYCHIATRY…
I really like critical psychiatry…
thanks for this information…
and how can anyone say they
were never helped with these
medicines…and I have a mental illness..
I was helped…I shouldn’t have taken
them for so long a time…
excellent information….
CRITICAL PSYCHIATRY—yes…
I have been unable to withdraw
from anti-depressants after
45 years of using many different
ones including Elavil and Prozac…
I don’t think we know very much
about mental suffering….and how
to help people…we talk a lot…
is there a better way of describing this problem….
what are the causes of this problem….
I really like getting down to the CAUSE…
I like the bio/psy/soc/econ/pol model…
usually it involves more than one cause…
I like this research news….published in the nemj…
it is a part of CRITICAL psychiatry….this is the type
of news that will take down the BAD STUFF from within…
the problem with anti-psychiatry —-it is not going
anywhere….a lot of heat and not enough light…
i like critical psychiatry for now…
bio/psy/soc/econ/pol model of causation…
thanks very much…
teens and young adults…..
brains not totally formed…
how many prescription medicines being used…
how much alcohol/nicotine/caffeine being used…
how many street drugs being used….
how much sugar is being used…
all of the above are effecting a young brain…
I have a serious problem with anxiety and depression….
I take medication for this problem…
I see a psychiatrist every 3 months….
I have no problem if someone says I have a mental illness..
and I seriously hope that they never stop looking for
any genetic problem that might impact on this suffering…
I believe in the bio/psy/soc model of causation….
I don’t want anything left out that might help…
should we stop genetic research trying to
understand the cause of panic attacks….
abandon genetic research looking for cause of depression…
no no no….not a good idea….
but the DSM diagnosis [major depression disorder] needs to
be dropped out into the trash can along with the DSM..
good discussion here….the big problem imo
is mental health treatment….we are not
treating the cause.. only symptoms and signs…
we need treatment of the cause of mental suffering…
whatever the cause may be…for that person….
and we need to think of true prevention…
…we do not know causes…
we cannot rule out biology…bio/psy/soc…
in the usa…if you have $$$cash
you can get what you want from
your psychiatrist…also you need to speak up
to see if you can WORK WITH a doctor..
young persons today are at risk
for pre-diabetes….if you have pre-diabetes
you are at risk for depression…we are not
eating healthy….we need to think about
prevention without using any prescribed
medications or any street drugs…PREVENTION….
also think about nutritional psychiatry…not pills..
how about NUTRITIONAL psychiatry…..
maybe eating in certain ways
will help brain health…that will help
all this anxiety and depression out there…
instead of a pill or two…
after all this talk I need a valium….
jo ann cook
thank you very much…
you have helped me understand…
my psychologist tells me why so many
americans are seeking medication….
it is human nature to————
to avoid pain
to seek pleasure
and do it as quick as possible
some of us out there are not as strong…
we need help…medications and drugs
are a problem…
dr kelmenson do you think healthy eating
might help our brains…
my psychiatrist is kind…
he is not authoritarian…
we have a lot to learn
about CAUSATION…
I would hope that we all could help heal
trauma without making money doing it…
I believe in FREE love so to speak..
yes
kim thanks for your work here…
this fast track on this fast drug is scary…
this is an awful world….I can’t believe
what I am learning….I need to concentrate
on being patient and kind…that’s it for me…
very interesting blog….it brings up so many problems..
I had a good discussion with my wife over coffee…
how about
dean ornish and lifestyle medicine….
4 important areas of concern….
1..what you eat
2..how much you move
3..how you manage stress
4..how much love and support you have…
I think number 4 is very important…
dear rachel777—I feel sorry for both of us…
I am glad that you are off those doctor drugs…
I am still on 5mg celexa…I hate it…my main problem
right now is I am old and closer to death…I fear it…
each person is different….what is the
cause of their suffering….it may even
have to do with gut bacteria [ please see SCIENCE
news 2-4-19]…whatever works for YOU…
whatever actually works for you…this soul
thing may work for certain persons….
omg….my psychiatrist trys to find out
what is actually CAUSING the suffering that we
experience….what is it that is causing
a certain person to be unhappy/sad/mad…
bio/psy/soc…
I don’t think using the term soul helps here..
I would rather use mind or psyche…
we have a lot to learn about depression…
who knows what lurks in our brains…
many good points…but there is a lot we still
do not know about human mental suffering….
i think doctors have a problem with lawsuits…
there is a big problem starting and stopping
drugs/medicines…also doctors don’t have time
any longer to deal with this awful problem
of too many drugs for older persons..
thanks Richard….
I understand better..
thanks professor van Os and james….
what a problem we have here …
dealing with causes and treatments that work..
without doing harm…this love thing is easy to say
but hard to do….respect and kindness sound
good to me…I like it when my therapist listens
to me and doesn’t judge or distort what is said…
Richard—-what is your thinking about the—
bio/psy/soc model of causation….
dsm5—-I have an alternative….
use it for reimbursement..get your $$…
but don’t take it as anything close to TRUE..
or just dump it in the trash can and take cash..
the conclusion is too extreme…
“you cannot trust psychiatrists”
I trust my psychiatrist….he is
very critical of psychiatry but
he still pays attention to the
model of causation bio/psy/soc…
thank you abrianna…..
love is patient…
love is kind….
and the DSM sucks…
I have a problem with this research
news….the word depression means so
many things…..what kind of depression
are they talking about…
wow steve…good post…
nature of society—soc…yes
but how can you say primary..
what do you want soc/soc/soc…
actually I like bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…
I would hope that we are searching
for the causes of human suffering
and what we can do about it…..
how about do no harm…
and not for profit…too much $$$$
being made and we still don’t know
why so much suicide and drug addiction..
bio/psy/soc—we need to look everywhere…
even under the kitchen sink
critical psychiatry is better…
bio/psy/soc model…
thank you MIA….I like the “rethink psychiatry”…
I do not like the psychiatry bashing…
I understand it…but it bashes some of
the psychiatry that has helped me..
like my own psychiatrist…he has helped ME
so much..thanks again for being fair minded…
pills and more pills…that is what
the doctors are doing…more
pills not less…will it cut down suicides?
we don’t know very much…
what is actually true….
but we are working on it…
thanks steve…
STEVE McCREA—-will you please say something here…I like what you say…
steve says [very very little]
are you teasing me….
how can you say this steve…
we know some about genes…
not much…but MOST we don’t know..
and don’t genes determine brain..
and doesn’t brain determine mind…
and doesn’t brain determine emotions…
and doesn’t brain drive survival and reproduction…
true biology will not go away…
we still don’t know very much about
the causes of mental and emotional suffering…
and what to do about it….
what evidence do genetic researchers have
that link genes to peoples mental states…
have genetic researchers found any evidence
linking genes to psychiatric conditions…
the title of this blog seems to imply that genes
having absolutely nothing to do with mental
illness….I don’t believe that genes have
nothing to do with it knowing the family that
I came from…and I use mental illness without
quotes because I have a mental illness…you all
may not have it but I do…
we still don’t know very much..
if I had a genetic disorder causing severe disabling anxiety
I would be reaching for valium and the kitchen sink…
we still do not know most everything about the brain…
steve let’s get down to dirty….
who cares what you call it…
poor people get 15 minutes and drugs…
or maybe some inadequate talking…
if you have money they will kiss your ***.
so we still don’t know the causes of depression…..
is the bio/psy/soc model of causation still important…
oldhead and steve want to know what are the good parts
of psychiatry that need to be saved….important question…
I think right away about the most important part to keep
and to make sure you are talking about what is TRUE…
you do not want BIOLOGY to be swept away….I am not
talking about biology that is not true…I want to see a PEACEFUL
transition from without and from within…how about that…
Robert Whitaker has started us on that journey here at MIA..
thanks rachel777—
I personally think that PSYCHIATRY sucks…
it is so sick it does need to go down…
but I don’t want the good parts to go down…
thanks to you all here…for understanding
good reply
thanks rachel
good
there are so many good people here….we have been hurt..hurt badly…
but I must now speak some truth to power…anti-psychiatry..
I strongly believe it is too extreme….and like revolts the bad
may outweigh the good…certain things need to be taken
down…but why would some want to take ME down…
there are some here that are very hateful of everything…
and I don’t like that….we must speak up effectively…and I have a mental illness…
and I have talked with Robert whitaker…he might agree about anti-psychiatry with me…he is a good guy…
we are talking about speaking up…
well I am going to speak up now…
this anti-psychiatry thing is way wrong…
you are trying to take down everything …
the good and the bad…for me I like taking
my valium when things go haywire..
and I don’t want to be told how bad that is..
I have a mental illness….all that talk about
changing the words is crap..it won’t go anywhere…
you are trying to take down innocent people..
maybe you ought to take a look at yourselves..
thanks will hall….there are many good comments here…
I hope oldhead comments on the model of causation…
I like many of the comments he makes…
oldhead —what do you think of the model
of causation—–bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…
oldhead–I would like to understand better what you believe..
what is causing all this mental/emotional/behavioral suffering…
i have a problem with this anti-psychiatry talk…
I like critical psychiatry…and critical psychology…
I have a very good psychiatrist….he has helped me..
why trash everything about psychiatry….
how about bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…..model of cause..
I am having a problem here…psychiatry is not the only problem..
all of us that are suffering want a quick fix…I want a quick fix…
but I have not found anything to fix me…
if you are pre-diabetic…
it may be harder to withdraw from an anti-depressant…
you get rid of the bad stuff…keep the good…the true
love is not about abolishing psychiatry…
love has to do about what is true…
sex is not love…
thanks cat….what a terrible problem…thanks peter…
giving anti-psychotic drugs for non-psychotic problems…
we still do not know the causes of all the suffering..
the suffering that people want help with…
i have a problem here…we already know that
empathy is important….why do we need studies…
most therapy is based on a BUSINESS model…
and that $$$$$ model presents very serious problems..
I really want to know what OLDHEAD thinks
about BRAIN HEALTH…
i haven’t finished reading but this is a biggy….
thank you…thank you….you have my attention….
oldhead—–is it important to have BRAIN HEALTH…
sounds real good….but I wanted to get away from
my family as soon as possible…I needed 1-1 therapy…
very interesting….maybe eating healthy
has something to do with brain health……
thanks james and dr steingard….this was helpful for me…
in our local mhc you get 15 minutes and drugs…
not much talk…I see someone privately for 45 mins…
and I am tapering off of celexa with difficulty…
I wonder about withdrawal in children…
once you start an ssri in a kid…
how long can you go with the ssri
before you get into withdrawal problems
when you stop …I worry about the kids
I am going to try this lavender thing…
I am a very anxious person..
I have the most trouble EATING HEALTHY….
exercise is very important..
but how about healthy eating…
whatever that is..my psychiatrist
thinks that is more important..
my psychiatrist says it is important to know the true causes of all
the problems people are having with thought/mood/behavior….
then we could deal with these problems more realistically….
thanks andri….strong helpful connections are what I work on..
and eating healthy…I am having a terrible time coming off
celexa after 45 years of different anti-depressants for my
so-called lifetime depression…
good info….I wonder what happened to eating healthy..
very informative…thanks…
we should not give psych drugs to kids…
what a nice little blog here…it feels safe for me…
I have an illness…probably not disease…
but when I had my first panic attack…
I started thinking something wrong here with my brain…
fiachra—can you say more…what a problem..
thanks cathy…we have some things in common…
I am having trouble withdrawing from celexa…
after many years…it is scary..
the DSM5 belongs in the trash can….
very good blog…very important book…
what an awful problem for kids…
what a terrible problem we have here…
but there might be a problem with only
talking about anti-authority…
many of these kids given psych drugs
are misbehaving because they are not
eating healthy…we must not be blind to
other factors besides trauma and society
and bad psychiatry…
I am 87 years old….I find valium to be very helpful..
I use it when I hit a very hurtful spot…maybe a day or 2…
I don’t abuse it…I move on..
interesting big picture….
I am interested in what is going to help me…
I have a depressive and anxious disorder…
I need to eat healthy….very little sugar…
mostly plants not too much…
I can fight all these doctors and big pharm..
but that wont help me…I need to pay attention to my
BEHAVIOR…
beautiful….I cried also
no psych drugs…but biology must be considered for angry kids…
how about —are they eating healthy food…are they sleeping enough..
are they getting enough healthy physical activity…
and as bcharris says above—how about things like caffeine
when it comes to kids—————
throw out the DSM….trash can
do not use any psych drugs…
this may be gross….I am old and I have a urinary tract problem…
I urinate frequently and it can be triggered by a sound …
so when I need to go and take care of myself…sorry I am selfish…
we don’t understand a lot of things…but we certainly have opinions..
I have a depressive and anxious disorder,,,
how is this podcast going to help me…
i like what you are doing…I also like people getting together
helping each other without money being involved…
i have “a new paradigm” for psychiatry…..
the DSM goes in the TRASH CAN…
YES…..I have been trying to withdraw from 5 mg of citalopram
for 2 years….I have been on anti-depressants for over 40 years…
I have experienced both physical and psychological problems
with my attempt to stop my AD…I am retired and no longer
need this psych drug…I am not anti-psychiatry…but I can say
a lot about the corruption and lack of truth that I see in psychiatry….
I find it interesting how we can get so off-topic…
NUTRITION is vital for brain health….
Julia continues to do research and provides
us with important information…
all the rest will end up being insignificant….
oldhead why do you need quotation marks..
I agree with you Stephen…there is a lot of money being made off of
people not being able to parent their children…just drug them…
I wonder how many of us are invested in the stocks of big pharm..
this does sound really stupid…throw the dsm in the trash can..
is it essential
lithium is not a nutrient…
I may be wrong…what is the science..
Julia’s ted talk was very informative…
nutrition is vital for brain health…
the important point ….
nutrition is important for brain health…
and the brain needs its nutrients
to function well…I would hope it
helps my depression if I eat healthy..
I want to be healthy and happy…
I am following you Julia…I think you have
important information about nutrition…
will this have anything to do about the brain…
I think so…will this have anything to do
with my depression and anxiety…I hope so…
my psychiatrist is trustworthy..
my psychiatrist is seeking the truth..
dr kelmenson you have gone too far..and I do understand how awful
psychiatry has become…
I think rosalee is making a good point here..
her doctor is trying to help her get relief…
why are we bashing all doctors…
my psychiatrist is really good….he has proposed
a new model of causation—bio/psy/soc/econ/pol…
fred77—I don’t know much…
but kids brains are developing..
and they are not getting micronutrients
to their brains….bcharris knows more…
critical issue for the health of our kids…
also they are eating too much sugar…
interesting that no one comments on nutrition
and kids health…
my psychiatrist refuses to see drug reps….
my psychiatrist will not force his patients
into the hospital against their will..
my psychiatrist does not pressure patients
to take psych drugs…
my psychiatrist refuses to see a patient
every 15 minutes…
my psychiatrist is not rich…
my psychiatrist is different….he believes that psychiatry is a medical discipline…
that looks at bio/psy/soc…or anything else…he believes that mental illness
is an appropriate term for some…and for others it is not…he is most interested
in understanding human suffering and what we can do about it…
he only works half-time and studies about the causes of depression the other
half…he lives very modestly and he helps me with my many problems…
I know a lot about him because he believes in sharing his problems with me..
we are both interested in evidence not just talk…he does not believe in anti-psychiatry..
he likes critical psychiatry very much….he likes to take down only those parts of
psychiatry that are sick and corrupt….those parts that are harmful…thank you..
Richard I think psychiatry is a legitimate medical specialty..
psychiatry is the specialty between neurology and psychology…
the specialty is not wrong… the current practices need to go down..
what needs to be taken down is the apa and corrupt pharm..
and corrupt doctors…and corrupt anything else….and drugs that
do not fix the underlying problem…the quick fix…
dr furman—-what do you think about glasser and choice theory..
dr furman———what part does nutrition play in a childs life…
what problems are caused by use of mdma…
very good thinking cc
this could be very important…
vitamin d and omega 3 and who knows what..
the model of causation bio/psy/soc…
not just psy…not just soc…not just bio…
bio/psy/soc…
new research–
reports discovery of a new
type of neuron in the human brain….
it has been called the rosehip neuron…
it is an inhibitory type neuron in the neocortex..
I hope that helps us in some way…
people need to tell their stories…
in a safe non-critical environment…
I am skeptical of yet another DRUG…
thanks laren and good you-tube
good comment Rachel…there are so many important things
laren I am glad that you are happy…
do you have any suggestions for young kids
about taking different drugs/alcohol/street stuff..
there are certain micronutrients that are essential…
if you don’t eat them you die….and you get demented…
example PELLAGRA…
so does eating healthy help your brain..
that is the question…correlation…causation…biology..
what are we dealing with here…
I have been married 63 years…..it is much different
than I ever imagined….it has been very stressful..
I think that good marriage counseling is hard to find…
interesting—-only 3 comments…
and this is very important..
people comment about exercise…
but they don’t want to talk about
eating healthy…
wait just a minute …not every psychiatrist is crooked……
whatever—-if you want some help you do three things…
you eat healthy….and you do healthy physical activity…
and you stay away from sugar…there all kinds of reasons why
people don’t do this… but the fact is these behaviors are crucial…
some day we will get it maybe…
that eating real food and mostly plants
and not too much is crucial for mental
health….and sugar is dangerous…
thank you again Robert whitaker…
MAD IN AMERICA….we are looking
at evidence here….very important…
ok now this is important….the possible link between
nutrition and depression…but healthy eating is
very hard to do today…
oldhead—–why is it so important to not
use the words mental illness….is there a simple
answer…
psychiatry needs changes….
critical psychiatry…
take out all the bad…
my psychiatrist is good….
I don’t blame him for anything…
he is not guilty…some are guilty..
better keep bio/psy/soc or you
will be making major errors…
and bio does not mean drugs..
vanilla you make a good point here…
Stephen there might only be one…
but don’t take that doctor down…
psychiatry is not the problem…
people are…
you are correct steve…but that is not
the way psychiatrists are supposed to act…
they are not practicing good psychiatry…
the new neuron is the rosehip neuron….
reported on npr…it may be important
in understanding mental illness…
and just saying there is no mental
illness doesn’t make it go away…
I have a mental illness…I am unipolar..
steve the important model of causation
bio/psy/soc…..and the concept that
psychiatry should be a discipline that
bridges neurology and psychology….
and my psychiatrist is a beautiful
example of a person who deals with the
truth….and anti-psychiatry is dangerous..
just take down the bad..
[bring on the research but stop the lies]yes Rachel777…..
what do you think of the bio/psy/soc model of causation…
there is news today from npr…
a new type of neuron has been found
in human brains…research that scientists
are doing…are we going to bash that also…
because is BIO..maybe it will help us..
we can keep bashing at all of psychiatry…
the past does not go away…we have to
change what is not helping us…
I have been helped by a psychiatrist
and a psychologist….I will not bash them…
you need to take bad stuff to the trash can…
like what the big pharm is doing…
I really agree with your ideas chaya…thanks..
I do have a problem with trying to take psychiatry down…
we need to take the practices of psychiatry down…
the misuse of drugs is rampant in medicine..
why not take down only what is rotten…
we need to keep what is good…
back to bio/psy/soc model of causation….hello steve..
there is a reason to put bio first…
when you have a mind or emotional problem…
the first thing a doctor is supposed to do…
is to make sure there is not something bio
causing the problem…like low thyroid…
bio/psy/soc——model of causation….
has this changed?????
what a problem for someone who has been on
an anti-depressant and gets pregnant…
if you stop the drug you get withdrawal
problems for both the mother and baby…
dr landman—-what is causing all this mental and emotional suffering…
dr landman….how helpful have you been with the people you see in your practice..
i sense a separation here between them and us…
i don’t like it…i want to belong…i don’t want to be alone…
and i definitely hate forced anything…
how can anyone be a survivor in this awful world..
and we all have to die…
i am a person with a mental illness…
when I broke down I would have taken anything to feel better…
I didn’t care what anyone said….I wanted help right then…
we shouldn’t be blaming anyone so much…
how about compassion…
sounds good…I hope it is helpful…
I need to mention another side of psychiatry..
my psychiatrist started a private outpatient practice..
he spent time with his patients..he did not use drugs..
but he brokedown after 5 years…he is now retired..
he still is broken hearted that the psychiatry system
is upside down….the doctor on top and patient down..
I just finished reading— mad in America…
Robert whitaker has helped me understand
how sick the psychiatry system is..
I can’t believe how I have been mislead..
but we can clean this up with the truth
that is not driven by $$$$$$$$$$$
I don’t seem to be able to post a comment…
in the usa I would have a problem with ultimate freedom
for persons under 18 y.o………….
I understand that the frontal cortex is not yet developed…
what a good study……thank you…
the comments reflect our need to understand suicide..
but we don’t know very much…
we need to know a lot more —-WHY????
everyone should be thinking about healthy nutrition
and healthy physical activity for the health of mind/body/spirit…
Robert whitaker—-thank you so much for
all the help you have given me…thank you for
teaching me about all the suffering out there..
you have to take on the big guns…
but take down only what needs to go…
my psychiatrist does not need to be taken down…
my psychologist does not need to be taken down..
and people are people…they want pills…
and they want a quick fix….a pill…and
the doctor is there…
very obvious…a frontal assault against the guys with power
is not wise….it is best to work at the bottom…get ordinary
people helping…and don’t go with hatred…go also with critical psychiatry..
anti-psychiatry trys to take everything down…does that make sense steve..
I am using the words mental health in an
individual way…not the system…the system is sick…
I am talking about the part that is not…
like nutrition…
yes yes yes….nutrition…duh
critical psychiatry will be very effective…
anti-psychiatry may make things worse…
what works the best…
how about nutrition and mental health for kids
what is causing this..
so what should we do about very unhappy kids…
what really bothers me here….I think that more anti and critical
psychiatry persons would be talking about this…nutrition could
be a keystone in the treatment of mental suffering….
psych drugs are just treating symptoms…but nutrition may
be getting at some of the causes…
steve you have said it very well…but NUTRITION
may be more important for a lot of people
having mental health problems..anti-psychiatry
people focus too much on SOC..
but steve— nutritional variables means biology..
very frustrating….where are all the comments here…
this line of research may be very helpful in treatment…
but the anti-psychiatry persons don’t like it…
this has to do with BIO…and it is shunned…
anti-psychiatry is heavily loaded to the SOC..
how about soc/psy/bio…can you buy that…
because this research is very important..
and I trust james and Julia…thank you…
james and Julia————-outstanding podcast…
this is the most important podcast I have listened to here…
NUTRITION AND MENTAL HEALTH…hold on to your seat…
because the ride will be uphill all the way…
thank you both for your courage and honesty…
dear Kerstin—thank you so much..
from the littleturtle
dear james moore….I just now listened to this excellent podcast….again you have done something
very important…I am really impressed with what you are doing to help us …thanks again from the littleturtle…
why aren’t more people interested in this concept of suffering..
thanks greg….what do you think caused your initial trouble at age 14…
I think that it is good here to have our differences…
I like the idea that I have a mental illness..
I like that I am unipolar…
I like the bio/psy/soc model of causation…
i like what Richard is saying…
i think psychiatry is in serious trouble..
i believe in critical psychiatry…not anti..
think pellagra and focal temporal lobe epilepsy…
psychiatry is the problem not the model…
it is not being channeled productively….
not good…too specific…
bio/psy/soc is ok
when my anti-depressant pooped out my psychiatrist just replaced it with another anti-depressant…that was 30 years ago…now when the drug poops out it is replaced by 2 drugs and maybe 3…treatment resistant
depression is the buzz word now….my psychiatrist knows better not to
go with the flow….there is a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to be made from our mental sufferings……..
amy thanks so much for sharing your story…
you are a very brave young lady…
and I would bet that you will do well..
6 mg…omg
maybe we just should have everyone take what drugs they want..
everyone can be a doctor…we like pills…doctors like to give pills..
and the drug companies like making pills..and the lawyers like to sue
over damage from pills….everything over the counter…lets just not
have anyone in charge but the good policeperson…
wow..how are you doing…
yes I think you are correct..in ohio I think psychologists may be prescribing soon …
what a mess…I still think that anti-psychiatry
is the wrong way to go…we need to take
things down without all the hate and anger..
only trauma????????
my psychiatrist is open-minded…
my psychiatrist does not belong to the APA
what is the problem with the model bio/psy/soc…
we still do not know the causes of serious
mind/emotional/behavioral problems….
we need to keep an open mind….
rachel777——–I agree 100%…
but you will not get LOVE….
from a violent overthrow of psychiatry…
there is some love there right now…
do we want to destroy it along with
the bad drugs and the bad external control..
what Emily is saying is so important—-critical psychiatry…
anti-psychiatry will just cause more problems not less..
critical psychiatry is the non-violent way of removing
the bad parts of psychiatry….I want light not heat…
nice going Emily…
your work with critical psychiatry is good..
the problem with antipsychiatry is—it is a guy thing..
guys just think in terms of frontal attack…
there are other ways of taking something bad down..
and all of psychiatry is not bad..
critical psychiatry
antipsychiatry
what difference does it make…
we need to know what is CAUSING
all the mental suffering…
bio/psy/soc….we still don’t know…
I have a mental illness…
I am unipolar….
bio/psy/soc causes…
thanks very much
i am stuck also on a small amount of celexa..
i want off….but i cant do it right now..
i have a different take on this…
it may be beneficial if they tell the WHOLE TRUTH…
i have a mental illness…i am unipolar..
psych drugs are both bad and good…for me..
that is my identity…i have had my share of stigma…
i want all the dirty laundry out on the line…
where everyone can see it…most people just dont get it..
THE WHOLE TRUTH is going to upset a lot of people…
like the drug companies and the doctors and the lawyers..
and on and on..bring it on
we do not know enough yet about the CAUSES
of anxiety and depression…each person is different…
so we need to keep searching for the truth…
we must consider all the bio/psy/soc factors…
we just do not know…yet
so what kind of stigma do we have here…
very big problem…
isn’t it hard to tell what is healthy
no time to talk…
we want a quick fix…
there is a pill for everything…
we are into FAST MOODS
but dr kelmenson—-you cant buy the truth…
and that is THE most powerful weapon…
all this other anti-psychiatry talk will not
get the job done…
what will you do when psychologists start
prescribing psych drugs…the lion king can
then be anti-psychiatry and anti-psychology…
and how about anti-all drugs…go natural….
we have nothing to worry about….
psychologists will soon be prescribing psych drugs..
then they will be in charge…they will do bio and psy..
then it can be anti-psychiatry and anti-psychology…
i am tired of all the craptalk here…..
I have a MENTAL ILLNESS…and it is awful..
don’t be talking that it just has to do about moving on…
I am UNIPOLAR and I will get help anywhere I find it…
and I don’t find much kindness here..i find hate and anger…
and that will go NOWHERE..
i have a UNIPOLAR mood disorder…
i have an excellent psychiatrist…
i take 5 mg of celexa daily…
i am trying to withdraw from it…
i don’t believe that NOT using those words..
is going to help me at all….
i actually like the word UNIPOLAR..
and if i stop using that word UNIPOLAR…
my suffering will not get any better…
are you agreeing with everything steve is saying…
what are you agreeing with chris..
there was one time in the usa when mental patients in southern state hospitals
were treated with a substance [niacin] and it was curative….I think we have forgotten about pellagra..and what it did to peoples brains and minds..
steve you have mentioned some of the problems with the word UNIPOLAR…
do you have anything to say about how that word might be helpful to some persons
suffering with a mood disorder….do you have a problem with the words mood disorder…
you can talk all you want about not liking certain names …
but the human sufferings are not going away…
more has to be done than just changing names…
I choose to use my word for my condition UNIPOLAR…
and I am only interested in the truth…
this blog could turn out to be a turning point here ….
this dr Kelly brogan may be speaking the truth…
and the truth is not for sale…and love here is not for sale..
I am scared when I read this Kelly brogan talk…
fiachra—yes…maybe many causes…
and we still don’t know why someone becomes BIPOLAR…and
I don’t believe this word is in the same category as the N word..
chris I just read the first paragraph and I really like what you are saying…
I am unipolar….that is my past…
but I don’t have a good word for it now…
but I don’t like all the anger and hate here on MIA…
I don’t think we all have to hop on the anger bus…
I need to understand this better…..there is neuroscience research on the relation between the microbiome and the central nervous system…what does philosophy have to say about that type of research…
steven are there different causes of psychosis…
and are there different types of psychosis…
I thought we just didnt know the causes yet..
hey I just thought….in the northern hemisphere…
why is the peak month for suicides in MAY…
I have no idea…can we blame psychiatry
we can only light our own candle…I am interested
in the evidence…that is what I will follow..
you will take down the bad by showing the good…
you will not succeed with hate…
we need to fight with the truth and love..
thanks kelli…you have helped me understand…
what an awful experience…keep up the good work…
recovered—good post…my biggest withdrawal problem is FEAR…i still am stuck with 5 mg of celexa..
psychiatry sucks….my psychiatrist knows that…
psych drugs suck…my psychiatrist knows that…
appts every 15 minutes suck…he knows that…
there has been unbelievable abuse and extreme anger..
but where has it gotten antipsychiatry…
the frontal assault does not seem to be working..
we still do not know the causes of mental suffering..
the public still wants a quick fix…and they are
getting it…
antipsychiatry has some problems also…
antipsychiatry takes down the good with the bad…
that is not good..
I have proof…I just went out for a morning walk..
now I am not as anxious and depressed…
I have a different opinion….this is news….what could be more important
than physical activity and healthy eating to help those of us that are
anxious and depressed…I thought MIA had to do with science and psychiatry..
and when I say psychiatry I say the good with the bad…it seems that it is
difficult to see the good….there is information available that connects
lifestyle factors to brain function…it is a mistake to just look at bad psychiatry…
dr kelmenson—are you saying that the word depression
should not be used…and we should not talk about
physical activity helping people that are depressed…
I thought MIA dealt with science…
yes
Rachel that is very sad… what happened to you…
those traumas were a big deal…you make a very good point…I was fortunate……i did have a good psychiatrist…
physical activity yes…but healthy eating may be more important..
it would be nice if we knew the cause of all this…..
depression and anxiety….
whatever works for you
also steve——whatever works for …..no matter what…
steve—–honesty/truthfulness/reliable/cure…
the golden rule..DO NO HARM….and you don’t
go into medicine to become rich …
I don’t see any talk about how lifestyle behaviors
may effect the brain by way of inflammation….
and causing anxiety and depression…
we are blaming drugs and doctors and drug
companies…how about what we are doing to ourselves..
with sugar
I am now reading ANATOMY OF AN EPIDEMIC for the second time…
it is a disturbing beautiful book….it is making me think that just
changing the words is not going to be enough…
and anti-psychiatry has a problem….
it is trying to eliminate the good with the bad..
I don’t think that will work…I don’t know what will work..
maybe the truth…no bs
how about I am sick and I want to get well..
I know when I am well…no one has to tell me..
words are very important….
a word schizophrenia is used…
we can eliminate that word…
what do we have in its place…
is psychosis appropriate…maybe..
so lets say psychosis…what causes psychosis..
probably many things..do we understand psychosis..
do we know what is causing psychosis in a person..
I was psychotic one time…I have no idea what caused it..
I was told it was due to open heart surgery…
I don’t think we know very much about the cause of psychosis..
dr kelmenson————I was just thinking…
you are not going to stamp out the psychiatry thing…
we the people are the problem…when we are suffering
we want a quick fix…and we will get it somewhere…
we the people need to be educated about what might
deal with the CAUSE of our suffering..
and suffering is worse than unhappiness..
when one of us is suffering bad we are going to take a valium no matter whether mental illness is a myth or whatever..
PAT—can you say more…I feel so sorry that you are suffering…
those mean voices sound terrible..
thank you so much for telling about you..
I am sick..i just want to be accepted as is…and belong SOMEWHERE…
I don’t know what caused my first panic attack..
it came out of the blue…it was like a seizure..
it was very unreal for me…
registered—what causes panic attacks..
I need your help
but what caused my very first panic attack…
that was not a choice for me..
this sounds like a word game…
when I have an appt with my psychiatrist…
am I a patient…is he a doctor..
I like my psychiatrist…he sees me for an hour..
what should I be telling him about the celexa that I take…
I am unhappy…why am I unhappy…what should I call
my unhappiness..
dragon—-a psychiatrist should not be allowed to force a person into a hospital..
what should a psychiatrist do if the person starts stabbing themselves
in the office…
thanks dragon
dr kelmenson—-I am trying to understand…
is physical illness and physical health a myth…
laura and james…I just want to cry…both of you are doing such a wonderful thing…
it renews my faith in people who are loving and not hating…I want to be part of this..
profound….
probably not many doctors are talking about nutrition and irritability…
we haven’t learned….
we want a quick fix…
and the quick fix is there..
reality will come back to bite us..
reality does not go away…
kids brains aren’t even developed..
the kids problem is just awful..
thank you very much for sharing your story…you helped me
my psychiatrist is looking at this site…he does not like what is being
said about psychiatry and psychiatrists…I try to tell him that people here
have been hurt very badly by psychiatry and psychiatrists…he doesn’t like being
included in the bad part of psychiatry…he thinks psychiatry is mostly bad…
but he says you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater…he likes
critical psychiatry….getting rid of the bad…he sees psychiatry as being very sick..
my psychiatrist asked if I was interested in light therapy….
I was and I tried using his light box for awhile..
I don’t think it helped…but it did help my friend…
my psychiatrist gets paid by medicare…he uses the
diagnosis of mdd…but he tells me he doesn’t think the dsm
is useful…only to get paid…he just thought maybe the light
would help my depression….I have had a major problem with
depression….I still am searching for the cause of my breakdowns..
is bright light therapy helping anyone here…
is it helping the suffering that we experience…
bio/psy/soc model of causation is still here…
biological research should be encouraged….
neuroscience should be encouraged…
genetic research should be encouraged…
all over the world..
is all neuroscience research unscientific….
is all genetic research flawed…
the important thing is to keep an open mind..
until all the evidence is in on this…
we need to search for the truth…
whatever that is…
my psychiatrist believes that a valium 5 every once in awhile will be helpful..
I am 86 yo…what is the problem with that…
are you talking about the abuse of benzos….how about the use of benzos prescribed by a doctor..
physical activity and exercise is ONE thing that we can do to feel better…
the doctor cannot do it for us…and the drugs may make it harder to do..
I like what is going on here…
bio/psy/soc model of causation….it still stands..
no matter how much we think we know…
I am not very hopeful about our species….psychiatry is sick…
our country is sick….our world is sick…most people are not
motivated for significant change….change would involve a
massive change in human behavior…I don’t think that will happen…
but I am just an old guy with mood problems….
yes steve
thank you very much Richard…what has helped you the most in your life…
yes rachel777….I learned from that psychiatrist/glasser
about the 7 caring habits….
which I try to use in treating—-the side that blames myself….
another cause of outpatient deterioration….
my psychiatrist believes that he and the person have total confidentiality..
just like the lawyer has…why not the psychiatrist…
my psychiatrist also believes that psychiatry should be talking about
biology———healthy eating and healthy exercise and healthy
relationships…see dr lustig book the Hacking of the American Mind..
my psychiatrist thinks that anti-psychiatry is the wrong way to go…
he believes there is good and bad in psychiatry…
he wants to take down the bad stuff…
you take down the bad stuff with evidence and facts..
and you keep pushing the evidence in every way possible…
but you are wrong in taking down the good…
my psychiatrist believes this anti-psychiatry movement
is going to have an overall negative effect…
psychiatry needs drastic changes but a frontal attack
usually causes more problems than it helps…
we patients have the possibility of pushing the TRUTH not lies..
that is where the strength is….my psychiatrist wants big changes
which might include him being out of work…
but he wants to go where the TRUTH is….bio/psy/soc
not bio/bio/bio………
my psychiatrist does not use dsm5 diagnosis….
my psychiatrist is paid cash only…
because my psychiatrist thinks that
the psychiatry specialty has a sickness..
the present model is bio/bio/bio and $$$…
and I have a mental illness… I say that
because I do not know the cause of my
depression suffering and neither does he…
we are working on it…
my psychiatrist believes in the bio/psy/soc model of causation….
I do not like the anti-psychiatry thing…
it will cause more harm than good…
szasz talked about anti-coercive psychiatry..
I like that …
I have been helped by a very good psychiatrist..
and to eliminate psychiatry you are eliminating
biology which is not a good move..
we don’t know very much…
we think we know about mental suffering…
but we just don’t know very much…
dr kelmenson….we still have the model of causation———–bio/psy/soc…
I see different disciplines vying for fame and fortune…psychologist against psychiatrist..
but we need to focus on the truth that we eventually find..
why are the words mental health so destructive….
I don’t understand …I want to know
words are not enough…
ok… anti-psychiatry would like psychiatry to no longer exist..
critical psychiatry isn’t there yet…what is it all about..
i have a mood problem…i have had 3 breakdowns..
i still have a depression problem…i am very unhappy…
i see a psychiatrist every 3 months…i shouldn’t do that..
i take an anti-depressant….i should stop that now..
i have been helped by a psychologist…that was wrong..
i was dependent on valium for many years..that was wrong..
i should never ever take another valium…
i still don’t know the cause of my depression problem…
i am told here that the cause model is psy/soc…
i am told here that i shouldn’t pay any attention to the bio..
am i thinking right…
thanks for your ideas steve….my main problem with anti-psychiatry…
it is too extreme…it is mostly talk and no effective walk…it will cause more problems than it is helping…my psychiatrist wants to change the system but
he will not join a radical group because people will just get hurt even more..
my psychiatrist believes people have to change the way they are treating each other….people are being very violent and blaming….we need to go after
the perpetrators not the whole system….
it is unbelievable to me that there are not more comments here….
this is at the heart of what is going on…
anti-psychiatry is not going to work out…
thanks james….I see a problem here…I think dr double
views critical psychiatry as accepting only psychology
and sociology causes and not including biology…
I think this is a mistake….we don’t know enough yet
to eliminate biology…critical psychiatry should include
bio/psy/soc model of causation and treatment…
any comments about szasz or anti-psychiatry
I don’t like this anti-psychiatry thing…
I like the szasz thing –anti-coercive psychiatry…
am I understanding szasz correctly..
and doing away with the words mental illness
is a problem for a lot of us that are suffering
from who knows what…we do not know causes…
dragon…I like what you post…
but I thought that szasz was not anti-psychiatry…
but anti-coercive psychiatry…
abilify or valium…which is worse
I understand…I agree..i am hoping that you will be of great help to others…
which are safer benzos or anti-psychotics like abilify
meschelle—you really have been through awful stuff…thanks for sharing your suffering…
I still believe tho that there are some psychiatrists that are helpful…and all of psychiatry is not bad..
but the psychiatry system is very badly broken down…I was taken care of by a psychiatrist and psychologist
a long time ago that were very good and helpful…psychiatry used to pay attention to psychology and sociology together with biology….not just drugs drugs drugs….
I take citalopram…I am trying to stop this medicine…
I follow a medication guide approved by the usa fda…
there is a black box warning at the very top about SUICIDE..
it says pay particular attention to new or sudden changes
in mood/thoughts/behavior/actions/feelings….
WHEN THE DOSE IS CHANGED….
this is important information about withdrawal problems…
thanks james and professor read…
and now I am 86yo and I find this world to be
very very very CRUEL………..
wow…such an important blog…I also am very sensitive….
thank you all for your helpful comments..i believe that I
have a mental illness whatever that means…I see a psychiatrist..
I don’t think he knows what is causing all this suffering..
how many persons are helped more than hurt by using an anti-depressant..
this neurotoxin talk is quite extreme…certainly the ssri’s are drugs…
and drugs always have a downside..i found that out..
what a very good podcast again…thanks james and dr Moncrieff…..
when I was depressed I would have taken anything for relief…
that is a problem…and my friends believe doctor knows best..
with all their pills for all the suffering…we are not dealing with causes..
and the anti-psychiatry talk is making it worse for me…
what a very good blog here….let the drug thing wither away and walk away….yes yes..
and healthy eating and healthy exercise is at the top…but it is hard work..
but we have a very big problem…people want a quick fix…
dragon slayer —this article is helpful because it talks and shows ways that people can be healthy…
it shows ways that work…this article is more than good intentions…
I have been helped with these ways…I want to focus on what helps me..
just talking about the terrible things that don’t work just makes me sick..
good work CW…
I did find the word psychological…sorry
craig…good work…I don’t see the word psychological…
wallenfan——excellent post…no one pays attention to lifestyle changes….they would rather blame something or somebody than get down to treating this complicated problem…thank you very much…
I would add another name here ….dr Robert lustig and his book the HACKING OF THE AMERICAN MIND….sugar is very dangerous and we love it…
my belief is based on a family history of mental illness…
I cannot leave this blog without making a statement..
I HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS….I am very old now…86 yo
it has been disabling…but I also have had some good years..
and my illness has been affected by genetic factors…
bio/psy/soc….
dr kelmenson rules out genes as being important….
but we just now are finding out how important they are…
gene variants may explain some about differences in behavior..
please see the new book by Robert Sapolsky—BEHAVE
I am not saying that psych meds are good for us..
FREE WILL is not that simple a concept..
dr kelmenson—-certain changes in the human genome affect human behavior…so we don’t have anything like perfect free will….human choices have limitations..
dr kelmenson——-so you do not believe that biology has anything to do with behavior..
there are studies showing that persons lacking enzyme activity in their brain…
have behavior problems….and it may have to do with their genome…
the journal Science 1993 reported that in a family…how about bio/psy/soc..
anyone here ever have a severe panic attack…
how do you explain a first severe panic attack having to do with FREE WILL…
I am not into pills…your statement NOT BIOLOGICALLY CAUSED…maybe has some problems if the cause of mental suffering is multifactorial….you don’t like the miracle pill idea…I don’t either..
the cause of mental suffering is multifactorial….it is very complex…not simple
bio/psy/soc….
the model of causation of mental suffering WILL NOT GO AWAY..
well I have to put my 2 cents in here…
I have a mental illness…
I was disabled for 4 years …
I was on social security disability for 4 years..
it was a life saver for me…
I also had a psychiatrist that helped me survive..
I am troubled by some of the comments on this blog..
yes
I will not let myself be taken down by arrogance…
I have a MENTAL ILLNESS…I am proud that I have survived
this awful thing…I give myself A MEDAL OF HONOR..
I have a mental illness….I am not a mental illness….
I have suffered enough….and I will look to the bio/psy/soc model…
to find help wherever it may be….I already have been helped by a psychiatrist
and a psychologist and a social worker…I give thanks to all who have helped me..
this podcast is helping me think even more about my troubled life…
I am very old and at the end of the line…I look back on my sadness and fears…
I care what others are saying about how they have been hurt…
but I see my hurt as having a mental illness…I know that most don’t like these words..
but I use them because it tells a story that I don’t want to be forgotten…
and I love the bio/psy/soc model of causation…it works for me…
I learned from the book that bio/bio/bio is not reality…
psy and soc are crucial to understand suffering….
and there is an article somewhere that saw a model bio/psy/soc/econ/pol..
was there anything else in his system that might be a problem….
also was there any brain tumor or other pathology…
thank you….very important information….
excellent comment steve
hey this book is really important
thanks again james and johann….I read the book…lost connections….I learned a lot…very helpful
i am not confident about this study….but i do pay very close attention to the BLACK BOX WARNING for the SSRIs that my friends are taking….???SUICIDE
steve really said it good—-psychiatry has been Bio-Bio-bio….it hasn’t worked…
but we shouldn’t go psy-psy-psy or soc-soc-soc….we need to stick with bio-psy-soc
steve that is good—bio-bio-bio….that is a quick way of explaining the problem…I like that
I don’t get this myth stuff…but I do understand the bio/psych/soc model of cause…
the anti-psychiatry movement is in trouble….one of the big reasons….most people suffering out there want a drug…they want a quick fix…and the psychiatrist will provide them with a drug…
violent anti-psychiatry will not accomplish anything but more suffering…
I hope we have NON-VIOLENT revolution….a lot of things need to be taken down…
1…how about spending some time finding out the CAUSES of mental/emotional suffering…
2…how about helping those in trouble without making a profit…not for profit health care…
james—-thank you… thank you…thank you….again you have chosen a spectacular person and book…I listened to the whole podcast…and I am going to get the book…there is so much anger everywhere and unhappiness….HARI offers some real solutions for us without violence..
a serious mistake is being made with the anti-psychiatry talk here…
it sounds more than anti-psychiatry…it sounds like anti-biology…
and that is a very serious error…the cause model should be bio/psych/soc…
reality will come back to bite you..
dr kelmenson——-you seem to like the word sadness rather than depression…if you have ever been disabled from a mood problem yourself you wouldn’t be using the word sad…
good question…we will wait a long time for an answer to this problem….
ok…lets talk some about what might help those persons suffering with anxiety and depression..
we have been talking about what words not to use…and down with drugs…and down with psychiatry..and down with biology….is there any help with dietary interventions using TRYPTOPHAN..maybe the serotonin neurotransmitter system is important for our happiness…what do you all think about this biology talk…are there any WORDS here that you don’t like…please tell me…
we do not know that much about the brain and mind…we just don’t know enough…
and most people are under a lot of stress and want a pill for everything…
brains are inflamed and people don’t feel good…they will get a pill or a drug or anything to get relief..
you will have to get rid of a lot more than psychiatry….you will have to fix the way people are living..
thanks feelindiscouraged….many good ideas
what is the excellent point…I still haven’t learned…is the point no psychiatry
thank you bcharris and dr kelmenson….so I don’t have a mental illness…I should not see a psychiatrist….I should take magnesium…and my panic attacks are just something normal…how about cognitive behavioral therapy…I am in the trenches and am trying to understand what you all are talking about…I would like to know exactly what is causing my problem…and what I should tell my loved ones..
I need help here…there is a lot of talk…I have a problem with panic attacks…
do I have panic….do I have attacks…
and what is causing these panic attacks…
do I need help…where should I get help…
what kind of help…I would like some help for this…
it is causing a problem in my life…
frankly I don’t care what szasz wrote…
are sick people sick oldhead
dr kelmenson—-very good question…WHAT ARE THEY…what is the true meaning of a person having panic attacks…
where are you dr brogan…what do you have to say now..
dr brogan….I am not sure what you are saying about inflammation…what is the exact cause of the inflammatory markers…thanks
I want better mental health and happiness for me….and I am looking to healthy eating and healthy exercise for help with my mood disorder…I really like what you are posting here bonnie and julia…I believe that good nutrition is vital for brain health…and I love the bio/psych/soc model for good mental health….and bad mental health
I think I might be helped for free… in a group of other depressed persons….I don’t like money being made from sickness…
I was helped by a psychiatrist…
I like to see /facts and evidence/science….coming from biology and psychology and sociology in an integrated fashion….I see a lot of fighting over who is going to get the money and power…mainly between psychology and psychiatry…they both need fixing…..maybe we need to pay more attention to sociology…yes
it looks to me that we don’t know very much….but maybe I am speaking for me….I don’t know very much
tirelessfighter3–yes the abusers and society are there and the major problem…but my problem was not that…MY PROBLEM was psychological and after many years I still don’t KNOW what caused my breakdowns…and I don’t think we know very much about the causes of mental health problems…so I will search everywhere for things that will HELP ME…maybe NUTRITION…
I need to say more here….I do understand anger at all the abuse that is going on…but I don’t want to bash everything that is out there….I personally have been helped during my depressed times by several persons…I have been helped by a doctor/a psychiatrist/a psychologist/a minister/a friend.. with my depression and anxiety…and now I will look for help also from the persons that are studying nutrition and metabolism and neuroscience…I will continue looking anywhere for HELP not hurt…I am not in favor of bashing everything..i understand the anger but we only have to FIGHT the persons that are hurting us…
I don’t understand why the anger about naturopathy…maybe they can be helpful for my problem with depression….shouldn’t we hear what they have to say…
again james you are going good…and thanks to Jennifer…really important information that could be helpful to those like myself with mental health problems…besides medications
what an awful situation….I feel sad…and mad
from the littleturtle
dr kelmenson——–you are right on…the drugging of children is awful…the drugging of everyone one is awful…we are drugging all of our problems ….and we live in an awful dictatorial world of power and money..
I still have a mental illness….and I am going to pay a lot of attention to NUTRITION and my mental health…and Julia and bonnie are doing great research here to help us with mental illness…I am not interested in taking psychiatry down….I want critical psychiatry…I want to look at what helps not start a war with the drug companies and psychiatrists…I just want to find things that work without any harm…thank you from the littleturtle…
hey wait a minute here…so I no longer have a mental illness…then what do I have wrong with me…what hit me and disabled me…where do I turn for help…well one place might be about nutrition..it might be supplementation to help me…what are some of you telling me…where is the real help…what is the real truth here…drugs are not going to do it…I am screwed up…what should we call that…the screwed up syndrome??? I find a lot of arrogance here…
you can talk all you want about psychiatry and mental illness…
but biology and neuroscience will be around…reality will not go away…
what a good blog….very good comments by everyone…wow…what problems we have…the drugging of kids..and how we might help kids in other ways…we have a lot of SICKNESS and we are popping pills for everything…WE ARE NOT EATING HEALTHY…WE ARE NOT EXERCISING HEALTHY..we are not choosing wisely.
the cdc says 86 million American adults are pre-diabetic….and 9 out of 10 don’t know it..
so I wonder about kids….this has to do about biology and neuroscience and most people aren’t paying attention..
scott—every good doctor needs to present the good and the bad…
what are the side effects and problems with using mdma..
I need to hear it from you…you have some experience with it…
I am sure that it isn’t all good…I hear it works on the gaba genes….
thank you
I can see that we don’t know very much….but we will know more if we are still around..
and mdma wont be that important….
thanks Richard….bio/bio/bio…that is funny
Richard—very good response…
can you explain to me why you want to take down biology…
what is wrong with the bio/psych/soc model…
thanks from the little turtle…
doesn’t whitaker support critical psychiatry….
psychiatry needs a lot of help…it has an illness….our country has an illness.
we all need to work on this one…it has to do with moral decay.$$$$$$$$$
merry Christmas and happy solstice and happy holidays and happy to all.. no matter what your beliefs …from the littleturtle
samruck2——–the pellagra story is interesting….in the early 1900 hundreds in the south many people were put in state asylums….they were psychotic and they couldn’t help them..and they died there..finally a public health doctor found that they were not getting niacin in their diet…they just didn’t know….was this biology …now today there may be chronic inflammation of the brain because of the way we are eating….is that true…I don’t know…but we need to find out why we are getting mentally sick…is it bio or psych or soc…or all of it….YOU CANNOT TAKE BIOLOGY OUT OF THE EQUATION WITHOUT CAUSING HARM…I know this is not about your wife…but it is biology…
the worst way to change psychiatry is this anti-psychiatry movement…the very best way is critical-psychiatry….Robert whitaker would agree…the trouble with people now is that they want to go to war about everything..you need to attack what is wrong about psychiatry…not the part that is right….underneath a lot of this fight is psychologists against doctors because the doctors are in power…the truth is not about power…it is about what works and is right on…you need to change hearts and minds..and you wont do it by fighting and abusing those not in power….
steve–doctors have the upper hand…people want pills…and doctors are there to give them….the money goes to doctors…..people want a quick fix and psychology cant provide that….what do you think…
i just thought of something…could this anti-psychiatry thing have to do with the old war between psychiatry and psychology…psychologist against the psychiatrist…and a lot of us are getting pulled into their warfare…it may have nothing to do with truth….it may have to do with POWER..yes
dear nancy99—-thanks…I decided that myself…I have had several close friends kill themselves…I think about the stigma of being called mentally ill..
my friends were called mentally ill…well I want to stand up for all of us.. and say I am mentally ill also …what do you all out there want to say about that…
I have had an awful mood disorder with 3 disabling breakdowns….I will stand there and be a human being that is EQUAL to all the abusers out there…
my final statement…
I have a mental illness…
I have been abused by the psychiatry system…
the psychiatry system is sick…but i will not abuse it..
i believe in the bio/psych/soc model of causation…
we really don’t know very much about thought and mood problems…
even though i am very old i am fighting to get at the TRUTH…
I am not going to get on an anti-biological psychiatry bus…that will lead to a frontal assault and a form of warfare that wont deal with the problems….for us that have been abused…we better not abuse others in our search for the TRUTH..
bingo
wow sam….you understand
I was abused by the system also…
I am one of them…
but I want to search for the truth wherever…
I would like to challenge the idea that mental illness is a myth…my psychiatrist(1966-1968)that really helped me never believed that he knew the cause of my mental illness….he saw psychiatry as a medical specialty that looked at the bio/psych/soc model of cause…my mental illness was a mix of all three…
my mental illness was not a myth…
I have a mental illness…it is a badge of honor for me…I am very old…I don’t follow any special people…I search for truth…I don’t equate chemical imbalance with mental illness…how do you define mental illness…
slaying the dragon— I don’t equate mental illness with chemical imbalance…
i don’t disagree with that…there are psychiatrists out there that are ready to abandon ship and join the anti-psychiatry movement….but not if you throw insults about their character…psychiatry will go down when most of the people are not willing to take all the pills for every problem ….people don’t want to give up on their pills…they will learn hopefully…but it may take a very long time…
I need to make a statement here….I have had a MENTAL ILLNESS for 65 years so far…you can talk all you want to about anti-psychiatry ..and I want to talk about anti-psychiatry but I will not believe that biology is out as far as causation…it may even turn out to be the most important…we just don’t know yet…but don’t try and take down the fact that there are a lot of us who have a mental illness…I have been helped by a psychiatrist big time…and a psychologist big time…and a minister big time…all of the above..you cant ever take away REALITY…wherever it is…and I belong on MIA just like the rest of you…MIA is not just taking psychiatry down…it is searching for the TRUTH..
bcharris—-you said it better than I could…
i don’t think we know very much about the cause and treatment/cure of serious mental health problems…from littleturtle
excellent thinking steve…the focus on ideas and models that work…yes
dr kelmenson….only dealing with psych/soc problems is a problem…I don’t think this website MIA is strictly the way you are presenting it…WE DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH AT THIS TIME TO RULE OUT BIOLOGY as a possible cause of ??? mental suffering…we need doctors and psychologists and social workers and lawyers and religious leaders and maybe the janitor…
I want to make clear where I am coming from….the DSM belongs in the trashcan….the drugging of America is a tragedy…the treatment options are very iffy…psychiatry is sick…but we must now look very carefully at what is causing our suffering….what are the CAUSES…I believe the best model of cause is bio/psych/soc…
not just psych…not just soc…not just bio…
but bio/psych/soc..
don’t forget BIOLOGY…it can come back to bite you…from littleturtle….
remember the problem with pellagra early in the 20th century in the south..
you can talk all you want but biology will not go away…from the littleturtle….the way you eat and exercise is crucial for brain health….and brain health is crucial for mind health…healthy habits are absolutely necessary and should not be pushed away from the discussion…bio/psych/soc
dr kelmenson—I think you are pushing biology out the door…freud wouldn’t do that…
thanks steve…you are a good thinker here…
I use the term mental illness because I am old and ready to die…I don’t mind all the bad things associated with those terms…to me it is a badge of honor…
I have a mental illness…I have been helped by a psychiatrist…I have been helped by a psychologist…I have been helped by a minister…I have been helped by a friend….I have been helped by dr breggin…I have survived this awful world…I have been helped by mad in America….but I am not willing to take everything down…
what is causing all the mental health problems…how should we be treating mental health problems…
why are there so many suicides…
I am not in favor of eliminating psychiatry or psychology…we just need to be better at understanding causes and better at treatment..i am not in favor of anti-psychiatry..i want to follow truth wherever that goes….
tirelessfighter3—–my psychiatrist and psychotherapist do not prey on me..
they are helping me…are you saying that I should not have a doctor or psychologist helping me..also a minister helps me…what do you suggest…
truth793810—–good thought…do you mean a different approach to research or treatment or both…I think we need to have all kinds of approaches…I have no idea what this schizophrenia thing is…
it looks like we don’t understand the causes of schizophrenia…I think it is unwise to throw out biology and neuroscience…we must consider every possible bit of evidence…what is causing this very strange state of mind..
thanks jancarol
how about whatever works for you…from littleturtle [bio/psych/soc]…
jancarol———-good info you are giving here…have you seen anyone benefit long term from abilify augmentation….
what a terrible problem with this abilify….the money that was made $$$$$$$$$$…and the dangers..
if a doctor wants to augment they need to recommend healthy eating and healthy exercise…
I have a MENTAL ILLNESS….I have been helped by a psychiatrist….with psych drugs…it in no way took away my free will to cope with lifes struggles….I also have been helped by a psychologist and a minister….two friends also helped me…I do not believe that mental illness is a myth…it is real and we need to find the many causes…my model is bio/psych/soc…we don’t know that much at this time..anti-psychiatry is too extreme….I like critical psychiatry….searching for the truth…
dr wood is here to help change psychiatry….we need her with us….I do not like the attacks that some are making….I have a MENTAL ILLNESS and I have been helped by a psychiatrist..i am for CRITICAL PSYCHIATRY not extremism….we should be very careful about what we want to throw out…and we should not treat dr wood badly the way some of us have been abused…
there is a lot of talk here….i am not sure how much help…i have a couple of thoughts…anti-psychiatry is too extreme…it will backfire…and i like the bio/psych/soc model of causation..and i have a MENTAL ILLNESS and it is not going away….and i don’t like $$$$$$being made off of mental health…it should be for free…from littleturtle..
in rebranding psychiatry it seems that the medical model has to go….in the process of doing that I hope that we don’t throw out the biological piece …..I like the bio/psych/soc model of looking for ways to treat the awful suffering that we go through…whatever works for each one of us…and if someone likes the medical model what is the big problem….do we have to squelch every last vestige of all the problems brought on by big power and big $$$$$$$$$$$…we need to go after the truth no matter where we find it….from the littleturtle
ok…you do away with psychiatrists…you do away with psychiatric hospitals…you do away with the DSM….you do away with all prescribed psych drugs…..what are you suggesting for the care of all the persons with mental health problems…who will work at this…and how will they be paid…
my psychiatrist helps me….I have seen him for 19 years..and a psychiatrist I had a long time ago actually helped me understand how a good psychiatrist can save a life….that psychiatrist saved
my life….so I have a problem with extreme anti-psychiatry…and I do see the dangers of psychiatry today….and I see the dangers of general medicine and its treatment of chronic diseases..
why cant we just have the original psychiatry———–bio/psych/social…
Stephen I have spent many years with those damn psych drugs…and I do not like the dsm….I was helped and hurt by my drugs..right now I cant get off my celexa…I can understand why you are anti-psychiatry…and I understand why I am critical-psychiatry….
anti-psychiatry is too extreme…I like critical psychiatry….very critical psychiatry…the dsm and drugs are a big problem..
anti-psychiatry is too extreme…I like critical psychiatry….we don’t know enough yet to be anti-psychiatry and anti-biology…when we are talking about mental health problems…too extreme
I don’t think we know very much about mind/emotional/behavioral problems…we are working on it….treatments are there but are not workng out too well….there is a lot of talk here but I don’t see much
success…at least not enough…it seems we are arguing about what words to use…
dr noel hunter is spectacular…what a wonderful podcast…I could follow this lady to hell and back..
good going james…from the littleturtle…..
interesting blog….I like the MAD PRIDE idea…I have had a very long experience with mental suffering…and the old term was mental illness…I still have PRIDE in being one of the persons with
a serious disabling MENTAL ILLNESS…I have my medal of honor for having a MENTAL ILLNESS…and no one here can take that away from me…I am one of the old guard…MENTAL ILLNESS PRIDE…and I have serious problems with drugs and diagnosis to solve these problems…
I am shocked at the lack of comments about this vital subject….it was so well done by dr firth…
what is wrong out there…where is the mad-in-America people…are we just trying to take psychiatry down…and we don’t pay attention to what might help…
Emily—-I really like what you are doing…you seem like a good person..i personally like critical psychiatry because there is a lot to be critical about drugs and diagnosis…but I am not liking anti-psychiatry…I have a problem attacking every psychiatrist in the world…my psychiatrist is one of the good guys…he just doesn’t understand the terrible abuses that are going on in the official psychiatry world of diagnosis and drugs….he is blinded by the way he was trained…and he is afraid of getting sued for not following the standard of care…
really an excellent podcast…absolutely vital information about the biological side of mind/body problems…I will be following dr firth….nutritional therapy and exercise therapy is crucial in the treatment of the mind/body/spirit…thank you from the little turtle
words can have great power for good and bad….love is patient…love is kind…
from the little turtle
thanks again…
thanks sentc15…from the little turtle
whatever we say here will not remove the importance of understanding causes…and causes are found in the interaction of biology/psychology/sociology…all three ….not one or the other…that is why it is so hard to understand …..we will know more as we go along…
what would be the intervention——-I couldn’t say steve…
I don’t think we know very much about psychotic disorders..
and Francesca—interesting idea..
steve—–it is important to understand all the causes of the psychotic disorders..and are you sure about your statement that you CANT DO ANYTHING about genetics….
I have been thinking about this problem with the genes…I don’t think genetic research concerning schizophrenia should be slowed down…we still don’t know that much….we need to research every possible angle…this is a terrible thing to have…
so we still don’t know the causes of schizophrenia…what is causing this terrible condition…
james moore—thank you for another very good podcast….schizophrenia is such a terrible awful problem for all of us…very difficult problem…
dr Moncrieff said something very important———–“when negative emotions or unusual behaviors are not driven by a specific bodily mechanism we should approach them as we approach other human behavior”….at this time neuroscience is just getting underway…we don’t know a lot about bodily mechanisms and brain mechanisms…I think that much of the anxiety and depression we are seeing may be a MIX of bio/psych/soc …americans are not behaving in healthy ways and this may be effecting the way their brains are working….the CDC says that 86 million adult americans have pre-diabetes and 9 out of 10 don’t know it…how might that effect the way people are feeling and behaving…and I would like to add that I don’t like the term mental illness …and I am having trouble withdrawing from my last little bit of celexa…
szasz says————–“and hence mental illness is not an illness”..I don’t think that is proven yet…
my problems with depression
involved biological and psychological and social factors….and I was treated/helped in all three areas…I have a mental illness…and I pay attention to all of the above…
beautiful kat…what a powerful story…it says so much…thank you…thank you..
from the littleturtle
dr kelmenson has talked about a very important problem ….the drugging of kids…
but MARDY9 has brought up something that might help the problem…very important..
we need to push over and over the connection between NUTRITION AND BRAIN function..
kids are not eating healthy…
do we know the CAUSES of mental suffering….we just don’t know…but it is not good to throw out biology because of the problems with the present somatic treatments…
good blog…I think the problem we have today is very difficult…
we still don’t know the CAUSES of most mental suffering…
so we can go ahead and treat the symptoms with any kind of treatment..
whether it works or not…I see another problem here…many persons
would like to throw out biology from the model of causation bio/psych/soc..
I don’t understand what you are saying here…
let me ask you a biology question….
does the serotonin system in the brain have anything to do with mental health…
again dr berezin….do you have any thoughts about the model of causation—–bio/psych/soc/econ/pol…are you making things too simple..
it seems you want to eliminate biology…that could be a big mistake…
dr kelmenson—-I think you have presented very important ideas here…
I have another idea to add that is also important…many people are stressed…they have many behaviors that are not healthy…one of those behaviors is not eating healthy…they are not getting certain key nutrients such as tryptophan and omega-3….any life problem that happens will easily take them down and anxious…what do you think about this biologic factor added to your real life thoughts…
l
there is a real problem here with simple thinking….either/or…either/or..
people want to throw out biology…they just want psych or soc…
it is dangerous to throw out biology…mental illness is a complex problem..
we need to keep bio/psych/soc as a model at least..
mr moore——-I think there is a problem with trying to make things too simple….either bio or psych or soc…..we need to look at the evidence from all three disciplines…thanks for your work
james moore—-I am really impressed with what you are doing…
I have had a mental illness off and on for 65 years…and I have seen psychiatry change from psychology to biology and back again….
we think we know a lot but do we really know how to handle SUICIDE..
dr kelmenson——-I am having a problem with your concept of mental illness…I have a mental illness… it was mental and I was ill.. I didn’t have just “unpleasant feelings”…
and it wasn’t due to just my “own problems’….
I really don’t know what caused all my problems with depression and anxiety…but my life has been broken apart….and I don’t believe that this was only a personal moral failure…I think there also was something biological going on in my brain….
dr kelmenson—I usually refer to my problems as “mental illness” in honor
of all my friends and my cousin that have killed themselves…they had more than unpleasant feelings….I don’t see mental illness as you do…
what do you think of the model of causation…bio/psych/soc/econ/political
what is the problem with the kids that are being treated…
we must look to causes..
we need to look to the model— bio/psych/social/econ/political
i am a person with a mental illness… for a very long time…
i like the talk from antipsychiatry and critical psychiatry and psychiatry…
sounds very good….I am still hoping that someday
information about mental health and illness will be free to all..
I have a problem about making money when it
involves mental health…but I have a mental illness..
yes….we all are in a lot of trouble…
we all have problems…not just that lady…
mental states….it is really hard to understand what that is all about…
but to throw out biology and psychiatry seems to….
throw out the baby with the bath water….
what we need to throw out is everything that isn’t true…
throw out what doesn’t work…
throw out the corrupt$$$$$$$$$$$$$$…
throw out the corrupt people……….
and keep what is true and right…
dr Moncrieff—–what is causing all the depression we are seeing…
I was really hoping that dr Moncrieff would wrap this thing up with some concluding remarks…
maybe we have been horribly off topic..but there are some important points that need some response…
doesn’t sound good for mental health…
I had a similar problem…
I think you are right on yetanotheraccount…
ok I have heard about a model for determining causes of mental suffering…
I really like it…the psych/social/bio/econ/pol model..
what do you all think about that…
I don’t know what to say….I thought it was very important to study neuroscience…
maybe we will understand better why people get depressed and suffer..
I have had awful problems with depression….I want to know more about serotonin…
I hope dr Moncrieff says something here…
what does biology have to do with mental states..
what does neuroscience have to do with mental states…
do you think we should continue studying about the serotonin system in the brain..
does any of this say anything about mental suffering…
so we are talking about mental states…and the words we are using…
words can be very damaging…but there is one word I want to keep talking about…
that word is biology…and what does biology have to do with mental states…
we need critical thinking here…not just emotion…
I don’t think we know very much about the CAUSES of anxiety and depression and suicide…
whatever words you use to describe these sufferings….
I lost a friend..she was a nursing student….she was hospitalized and given the diagnosis of schizophrenia….and she was treated with thorazine…a short while after she was found dead….suicide…that was back in 1963…I still remember her believing that she was being treated for a chronic lifetime disorder…very sad…
maradel–you are not the only one…I also don’t think that removing psychiatry from medicine will have any beneficial effect…the society problems run very very deep…most people WANT a quick fix…we have fast food and now we have fast moods…
it can be found in the hospital and community psychiatry journal H&CP
june 1993/ letters to the editor/a new health care model…..
Richard—–I need to know where you are coming from..
what do you think of the psych/soc/bio/econ/pol model of causation
of mental suffering…
dr berezin—–I like your focus on effective treatments…a positive approach..i don’t like all this hatred….treatment is based on causation…
I don’t think we know what causes most mental suffering…I am concerned about throwing out anything that might lead to understanding why we suffer so much…thanks for your talk here…
why would you want to save psychiatry as a discipline????????
psychiatry is not the problem…the problem is greedy people and $$$$$$$$ ..plus some bad science….
hey…this anti-psychiatry thing is pretty strong here…
so what do you have in its place—-psychology…
but you still have to deal with causation of mental suffering..
how about the psych/soc/bio/econ/pol model of causation…
plus who knows what…
I don’t think there is an understanding of what psychiatry is supposed to be…
it is not supposed to be neurology….it is not supposed to be psychology..
it is a discipline in between….it is supposed to look at all aspects of mental suffering…
the closest model would be psych/soc/bio/econ/pol…of causation and anything else…
so what has happened…the drug companies have taken over…the money interests are in charge..
that needs to be taken down….but do you think it is a good thing to take down the search for truth..
$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and hatred needs to be taken down….yes
dr kelmenson———
what do you think about nutritional psychiatry…
are all psychiatrists the same…
do we now know the cause of all the mental health problems…
what do you think of the psych/soc/bio/econ/pol model of causation
i have a major depression disorder….i want help from others who have the same problem..
i don’t want help from someone who is getting paid to help me…i want someone who knows what it is like…and i don’t want money $$$$ involved at all..i don’t like what is happening everywhere where $$$$$$$$$$$$ is being made…i want someone who is motivated by love alone..
my best peer support was a group of depressed persons and all the persons were helping each other…we were all equal as human beings…and no money was involved…i am interested in helping without hurting…
sounds really really good…
I have a problem with charging a fee…
I believe that attempts to get at the truth should be available to all…for free
thanks sera….it is not helpful to be calling people names….it is more important to be dealing with major issues…and why are so many people stressed/angry/depressed and on mood altering substances….like alcohol
interesting ideas…I think that there is a lot that WE JUST DONT KNOW about the mind/brain…
psychiatry will continue to be strong no matter what conference you attend…or what you do..
but it will go down because it is not based on reality and what is true…lots of people are getting sicker…health has to be based on a different model that includes soc/psych/bio/econ/pol ….plus– the kitchen sink…
humanbeing….the word is not that important….
I would hope that neuroscientists would keep working on understanding the brain and mind…I am glad that we found out about PELLAGRA..it was awful until we knew how to deal with it…
I would be interested in forming groups that are pro not anti….how about PRO MENTAL HEALTH..
dr kelmenson—what do you think about the model bio/psych/soc for evaluating problems of depression…
we are not done here…what are the causes of depression…I think most of the time it is due to stress… and everything that stress does to your brain…
good thinking Richard…and very good posting…
I am a doctor and a patient and I have been fighting the psychiatric
system$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for 50 years…I haven’t made much headway..
I do need to say something that is very important…
we shouldn’t lose sight of this… in our fight against untruths…
each person suffering must be evaluated biologically/psychologically/
socially/economically/and other factors like what is going on politically…
thanks Richard for your work…and thanks to dr kelmenson…
i have been thinking about this…
I would like to use a different model for depression….
I want to use the bio/psych/social/economic/political model for depression…
in our attempt to get away from the medical model we are being much too narrow…
dr kelmenson….I am not sure of something here…how are you defining depression…
can you be more specific…
do you have anything to say about prediabetes and depression…
this is so important…thank you dr kelmenson…there is the placebo effect…yes…and people are not facing their real problems…but there is something else…doctors no longer take time to pay attention to chronic down moods CAUSED by prediabetes and subclinical hypothyroidism…
dr kelmenson—-wow…vital stuff..most people I talk to want a quick fix…we need to get $$$$$$$$$$$$$ out of helping people who are depressed and anxious…
maybe it would be helpful if psychiatrists also learned about nutritional psychiatry….besides just talking…
dr kelmenson—I thought psychiatry was supposed to be a discipline right between neurology and psychology…are you defining psychiatry now as a psychology discipline….I think psychiatry should stay in the middle….I don’t think we know the cause of schizophrenia….
this is an awful problem for patients and doctors…the whole system is geared for rapid solutions/quick/fast…….patients are the ones that suffer most…
very sad….what was the exact psychiatric diagnosis…did he have any medical diagnosis….what medications was he on at the time of death..
there are many problems understanding any suicide…assisted or not
hey doctor kelmenson….this is a very good question you are presenting…a good discussion so far….I wonder how you are defining mental illness…do we really know much about causes…we did have to know something about biology when we found out the cause of pellagra…it played havoc to the brain..
maybe until we find out the causes of mental illnesses….
we should do more talking and less drugging our patients…
15 minutes and an antidepressant is not going to do it…
dr breggin…what a brave person…you and ginger are so needed now…
we are behaving in so many ways to destroy human beings…you have really helped me…
when I was a young psychiatrist I was told to talk less and use more drugs…
Jocelyn…thank you…
benzo brains is helpful…
I was a patient that took valium 5 mg twice a day for years…
I started taking this benzo after my first panic attack…
the benzos are a big problem…
but I also worry about the use of abilify instead of a benzo for non-psychotic use..
the anti-psychotics are also a big problem…
thanks again for your help..
thanks peter…important problem….good news here
I see 2 more problems…
#1—the long term use of anti-depressants..
#2—the use of abilify with an anti-depressant for a person who is not psychotic…
which is worse …a benzo or abilify…
thank you kalina for being so helpful….
from an old retired psychiatrist…
Emily—-I am really impressed with the discussion here….I am a retired psychiatrist who has a
mood disorder/depression…you are really doing some good here..thank you
I am very upset about CHILDREN being drugged….that is a tragedy….from a retired very old doctor….I have a mental illness and I am a psychiatrist….I am sad and disappointed in the medical specialty of psychiatry…
when I went into psychiatry a very long time ago the concept I had in my mind was false….I thought psychiatry was a medical specialty that was in between psychology and neurology…I was wrong…in 1963 my training was about disease and drugs..I became unhappy about what was going on there…I developed my own model for understanding all this awful suffering-the bio/psych/social/economic/political model…It has been a battle fighting the STANDARD of psychiatric care….I threw the pdr and the dsm in the trash can…but psychiatry is still in my heart…..the psychiatry that I hope some day will be realized…we need to know what is CAUSING all this suffering and then prevent it….a DRUG is not going to do that most of the time…this is from a very old tired so-called mentally ill psychiatrist…. who is retired and doing research into the cause of mind problems..