Wednesday, December 11, 2019

Defining Anti-Psychiatry

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  • #75031
    oldhead
    Participant

    You seem full of energy and ideas, which happens when one first “gets it” in terms of the psychiatric scam and connects with others who see things similarly. Be assured however that this movement has a substantial history and the issues you bring to the table are already being discussed by many. MIA however is a good central location to find like-minded folks. This forum so far has yet to garner enough consistent participants to get much accomplished but I’m hopeful that the day will come soon when we do.

    #75057
    Frank Blankenship
    Participant

    Now as far as having some kind of an organization, I think we will need many different types of organizations, as psychiatry has to be attacked at all levels. But what I would not want to do is set up some sort of mandatory counter doctrine. We do have Philosophical Counseling, and there are many different schools of philosophical thought. But for me the main issue is always going to be action versus inaction, and the raising of political consciousness.

    Fully agree. 100 %.

    Now for example, MindFreedom, they of course want to stop all forced psychiatry. But they still say that there are some legitimate forms of psychotherapy. I do not agree with this. I go with Jeffrey Mason and Alice Miller when she was at her best.

    I have a different view of psychotherapy. Most people cannot afford psychotherapy. Period. Of course, now that, post-DSM-III, psychologists and social workers are doing “psychotherapy”, it has become more affordable, or at least accessible, for “outpatients”. Should there be a major paradigm shift, and should psycho-active chemicals get the boot, that is going to mean even more talk therapy. I do see a problem with therapeutic thinking, in that it arose after the usurpation of the containment of madness by the medical profession, and that it (talk therapy) is part of that usurpation. To the extent that psychotherapy exists to suppress madness, and with it, freedom of thought and expression, I see it as a problem.

    Unruly individuals often have a great deal of reason for resisting rule.

    #75058
    Frank Blankenship
    Participant

    This forum so far has yet to garner enough consistent participants to get much accomplished but I’m hopeful that the day will come soon when we do.

    Bunk. It only takes a few, and we’ve got plenty. In this forum, and at MIA, and outside of MIA.

    #75068
    Nomadic
    Participant

    ” the issues you bring to the table are already being discussed by many.”

    Where are these things being discussed? I want to be there, and I’ll prove myself worthy of being considered a comrade. I want to be in the company of Women and Men of Action, not with people who are in Recovery and Therapy.

    So lets look at the situation and decide how we should act.

    I helped put a Pentecostal Daughter Molester, who was being 100% supported by his church, into our state prison. I am counting him as my first scalp.

    Now I want to go after more formidable foes. So what are some actions we can take and have a decent chance of winning in?

    1. Putting some select doctors or clinics out of business?
    2. Helping a child prevail in a lawsuit against their parents?
    http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/03/rachel_cannings_lawyer_why_she_sued_her_parents_opinion.html
    3. Helping to change US law to stop disinheritance?
    4. Setting up an overseas case tracking office, so that once a familial abuse complaint is logged, the case is tracked for the lifetimes of all parties?
    5. An advocacy core, who visit abusive parents and tell them that they need to pay up? They must feel tangible censure, in the only language they understand.
    6. Some aggressive public interest attorneys who will go after parents with the same zeal that Jeff Anderson goes after the Catholic Church?
    7. An aggressive exposure campaign against the worst of the worst, which is usually the county run mental health system, Doctors/hospitals/crisis lines?
    8. aggressive anti-medication law suits, always using law suits to extend the envelope?
    9. Making sure the US gets a comprehensive economic safety net and unlimited free college at any age, and that there is no denigration of the poor, or those who just don’t fit in?

    Nomadic

    #75070
    Nomadic
    Participant

    “Be assured however that this movement has a substantial history ”

    1. I think more and more people are seeing that Capitalism is insanity and could never work, and that it depends on child abuse and psychotherapy.

    2. Psych meds have gone so far and have been given to so many, that I think people are ready to strike back.

    3. People like Alice Miller have gone so far in showing that the normative family is predicated on child abuse.

    4. More and more our psych system is just a system for regulating the poor.

    So though yes, Anti-Psychiatry is a long running movement, I think there are reasons that now more can happen.

    Nomadic

    #75076
    oldhead
    Participant

    So though yes, Anti-Psychiatry is a long running movement, I think there are reasons that now more can happen.

    There are. While there still is not much consciousness among the masses, from what I’ve seen over the past few years, and especially at MIA, there is a growing anti-psych sentiment not only among psychiatric survivors, but in others who, for whatever reason, are involved with the “mental health” system.

    FYI you may or may not be following this, but what’s happening now is a general rebirth of anti-psych sentiment, which had reached a high enough state of organization by the early 80’s that the psychiatric industry actively worked to co-opt whatever “leaders” were available for co-optation. The movement degenerated into a scattered and disorganized mess, and many people were sucked into participating in “Alternatives” conferences and other schemes which served the needs of the system, not of psychiatric victims. We’re just beginning to see the clouds breaking and a new anti-psychiatry consciousness emerging; the new aspect of this is that it’s also shared by a fair number of people who are somewhat aligned with the “mental health” industry — a development which holds great promise, but also challenges us to develop a working consensus on major issues without slipping into reformism.

    If you read the main site enough — especially the comments — you’ll see that many the of issues you bring up are on people’s minds, and should feel welcome to join the fray. Though I wish more people would also take part here in an ongoing way, rather than waiting for their concerns to be brought up in other people’s blogs.

    #75102
    Frank Blankenship
    Participant

    FYI you may or may not be following this, but what’s happening now is a general rebirth of anti-psych sentiment, which had reached a high enough state of organization by the early 80’s that the psychiatric industry actively worked to co-opt whatever “leaders” were available for co-optation. The movement degenerated into a scattered and disorganized mess, and many people were sucked into participating in “Alternatives” conferences and other schemes which served the needs of the system, not of psychiatric victims. We’re just beginning to see the clouds breaking and a new anti-psychiatry consciousness emerging; the new aspect of this is that it’s also shared by a fair number of people who are somewhat aligned with the “mental health” industry — a development which holds great promise, but also challenges us to develop a working consensus on major issues without slipping into reformism.

    I think this is more of an illusion than anything else, OldHead, qualified. I mean the numbers of people highly critical of psychiatry are greater than ever, but so are the numbers of people psychiatrized, and while there are people who are highly critical of psychiatry it would be a stretch to call the lot of them anti-psychiatry. It has been said by some that the Murphy bill as originally worded, if enacted, would put our movement back by about 30 or 40 years. Okay, does that mean before the psychiatric survivor/mental patients’ liberation movement, or before Alternatives? And, as you see here, there are a great many people behind this effort to negatively reform the system. Anti-psychiatry is a dirty word in the media, more or less; it is certainly much less acceptable that it was at one time, and anti-psychiatry sentiments are not as acceptable as they were in the 1960s and 1970s. At least, on the surface of it, so it seems. I know the APA actually made One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest the subject of workshops. I imagine the idea is to say that was then, and psychiatry doesn’t operate in such a fashion today, but the point is they still operate in that fashion.

    The problem is that psychiatry and the mental health movement are well organized, and PR is very big with them. We don’t have the organization yet and, as such, we don’t have the PR to counter their PR. If it’s agit-prop against agit-prop, right now, they’ve got the edge, but I do see some signs that, despite these efforts, anti-psychiatry is making it’s way back into the mainstream media. Under the record, outside of the noise, it is very apparent, but not in the corporate owned press.

    #75106
    oldhead
    Participant

    Yeah, that’s an amusing observation about the movement being set back by Murphy “30 or 40 years.” Setting it back 40 years would be fantastic — in 1976 things were starting to snowball and we were approaching the point of our greatest participation and influence ever. Setting it back 30 years — one year after Alternatives started — wouldn’t be much different than now. I don’t agree with that assessment of Murphy, btw; though its passage would be an outrage, such outrages contain the potential to unite people and fire them up to act, and in the process become stronger than they were to start. Having some organizational models ready for people to discuss and put into place when the time comes could be invaluable.

    I do see some signs that, despite these efforts, anti-psychiatry is making it’s way back into the mainstream media. Under the record, outside of the noise, it is very apparent, but not in the corporate owned press.

    We shouldn’t judge our progress by what the corporate media say or (more often) don’t say. If we do our job well, when our organizing/agitating poses a real threat to public perceptions of psychiatry, the corporate media will be on the phone and at the door eager to misinform people. Meanwhile we can send them our press releases and move on. The reason Bernie Sanders is doing so well among young people is because they get their information from sources other than network TV, otherwise nobody would even know who he is.

    #75107
    Nomadic
    Participant

    Frank and oldhead, your posts are fascinating to me.

    Perhaps someone might care to enlighten me as to what this Murphy Bill is?

    http://www.bazelon.org/News-Publications/Press-Releases/12-12-13-Murphy-PR.aspx

    As I see it, no one should ever submit to the psychiatric system in any manner whatsoever. We should be issuing membership cards to people explaining that they refuse to submit and that any attempts to make the submit will result in immediate lawsuits, and which imply that the psychiatric system will always be seen as a proximal lethal threat and that appropriate acts will be taken to neutralize it.

    The way people are made to submit to our economic system is The Family and the Psychiatric system.

    I think cooption is always going to be a problem. I mean, everyone wants to believe that they can have a place in this world without having to fight in a war. And then there are paychecks and disability payments.

    R. D. Laing lost it. Alice Miller lost it. Most people do.

    I see the family and capitalism as two sides of the same coin, and then psychotherapy as being the bully cop enforcer. Peter Breggin says that the original reason for the invention of psychiatry was to be able to lock up homeless men who were not breaking any laws.

    So for myself, I want to set the bar as low as possible. No psychiatric meds, no psychotherapy of any type whatsoever, no Recovery Movement. No Getting Saved.

    No I don’t want to impose laws against these things, essentially free speech, but I do want to delegitimate them, and strictly enforce against any government complicity.

    So I see the psych system coming into play in two arenas, the first is familial abuse. So long as a parent can take their kid to a doctor and say, like in Sickened by Julie Christy, “Can’t you see, there is something wrong with this kid”, then you’ve government licensed child abuse.

    And then in the lives of the poor. Where I live there are express allegiances between our County Mental Health and Born Again Recovery Programs, and then Rick Warren says his Celebrating Recovery is the official program in most state prisons. Our muni governments put Food Not Bombs volunteers in handcuffs, but they turn a blind eye to the Born Again programs which do the same things. They have run out homeless feeds from churches and even gotten their own alternate church pastors installed, and then endorsed Recovery Programs on the grounds of the same churches. They endorse programs designed to humiliate the homeless and poor by putting them into Work Readiness Programs, not jobs, Work Readiness Programs.

    Do these cut the guts out of the municipal employee unions and make them toe the line? You bet they do, when poverty and job loss are that disgraceful.

    So I take a hard line position, There is no such things as mental illness or developmental disorders like Autism, Aspergers, ADHD. There is no psychological healing, and these autism therapies are simply psychological torture.

    Give me 20 minutes alone with the parents of one of these kids, and I’ll make them see things differently.

    I read the books written by those who have come to accept that they have autism/aspergers. They say they have all sorts of deficiencies. But I read their books and I don’t see it. All I see is that they have had to endure oppressive environments with out social status, and that they lack political consciousness, so they blame themselves.

    I have read the writings of the parents and what I see and feel is the visceral contempt that they have for their child. And this comes into play even before there was a diagnosis.

    Again, let me deal with some of these parents, personally.

    So with Anti-Psychiatry, what are you trying to do, make a reformed version of psychiatry? Mind Freedom seems to want this.

    Make a new kind of therapy? Like Existential Therapy or Primal Therapy? Especially with the later, that is horrid abuse and denigration.

    So I always see alternative as political consciousness raising and action.

    Wonderful scene from Battle of Algiers. A guy wants into the revolution. So they hand him a pistol. He is supposed to kill a police officer. So he aims and fires, but the gun doesn’t work. So someone else kills the officer. And then he says, “We had to test you.”

    So we can discuss what has and has not worked about the Anti-Psychiatry movement. But the real issue is always then, are you willing to take action. People do not have to be in complete agreement when they act.

    So then what actions do we take? For myself I can see some of the best areas as

    1. Trying to put a doctor or clinic out of business by collecting affidavits and doing sidewalk protest in order to get more. No meta theory in this, not everyone has to agree on everything, they just have to be willing to act. Best if the doctor is someone who sees clients at public expense, as that is always the worst form of talk therapy as it is used to try and make people submit to their low station in life and comply with expectations.

    2. Also go after a doctor or clinic suspected of encouraging munchausens by proxy. This is how the middle class family works, how it enforces its authority.

    3. Fight against government officials who support the programs designed to denigrate and humiliate the poor, and make legal allowances for Born Again groups on public property.

    There may be other ideas people have, of things we could do which would get results, but without requiring complete agreement on all issues or requiring any landslide changes in public opinion.

    Again, I think this is really important:
    http://webspecial.mercurynews.com/druggedkids/

    I’m sure this is not unique to California. And someone should be organizing the survivors into a militant force, and we should be demanding 100% public financial support to set up alternative institutions which are safe, as well as making it understood that those who do this drugging will not go unpunished.

    Nomadic

    #75109
    Frank Blankenship
    Participant

    One thing you don’t mention, Nomadic, is mental health system expansion. Alternatives have their place, but merely having more options doesn’t make any of those options feasible options. Had we a contracting mental health system, it would be getting smaller. When the system is getting smaller, there are fewer mental patients (consumers, users). When more people are getting out of the system than are going into the system, the system is contracting. When more people are coming into the system than are going out of the system, the system is expanding. When the system expands, more people are characterized as “mentally ill”. When the system contracts, more people are characterized as “mentally healthy”. We need to fight this expansion of mental health services into every dimension of life. It is government intrusion, and it needs to be exposed as such.

    One can talk about ‘bad outcomes’ until one is blue in the face, but if one doesn’t figure that it is all part and parcel of system expansion one hasn’t figured out anything. It is psychiatry, “mental illness”, as a growth industry that we must fight. If “mental illness” so-called is, as it is, at epidemic levels, it is because mental health treatment is a business, and when the mental health treatment business is booming, you’re going to have a large population in the system, and many of those will have “bad outcomes”. “Good outcomes”, after all, are bad for business when that business is mental health treatment. “Good outcomes” mean fewer people in the system.

    #75112
    Frank Blankenship
    Participant

    I’m sure this is not unique to California. And someone should be organizing the survivors into a militant force, and we should be demanding 100% public financial support to set up alternative institutions which are safe, as well as making it understood that those who do this drugging will not go unpunished.

    Thumbs up, militant force. Thumbs down demanding 100 % public financial support to set up alternatives institutions, etc. By public I assume you mean money provided through taxes. Government money. None of this money comes without strings attached. The problem with alternative institutions is that most of them are doomed to become conventional institutions in time. Or appendages to conventional institutions. The business aspects of the alternative institution means that hands must be dirtied in the process of fund raising. 100 % public financial support was one of the major problems with the big asylums. When the funding was slashed the hospital had to, if not downsize, go under. Good thing, too.

    Also, the business end of matters I mentioned earlier. Funding for “mental illness” industry expansion we don’t need. As for punishing drugging, well, we’re going to need a major paradigm change first. If anyone gets punished, as this doctor in Illinois did, for excess in drugging, you can bet the offending party was very deserving of his sentence.

    #75113
    Nomadic
    Participant

    Sure, I want the system to contract. I encourage everyone to reject all mental health and learning disability labels. But most do not, and most of the advocacy groups will not, because it involves money.

    Sami Timimi says that giving people Autism labels is closely coupled to a reduction in political willingness to extend a general economic safety net.

    http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medicalising-Emotional-Competence/dp/0230545262/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    You know that in the United States, AFDC, from the Social Security Act, no longer exists. Instead after Clinton and Gingrich we have Tanif. The states have a great deal of discretion in how they administrate this.

    In some states they are not really enforcing strict time limits. Instead they are using extended benefits as a means of funneling people into psychiatric disability benefits.

    There are lots who get government money by going this way. Anyone who is “mad as hell and not going to take it anymore” is likely to get funneled into accepting a psychiatric label and money.

    The way to get government money without these strings is to get it by demanding without making any concessions. Then the money will be supplied in order to keep the peace. Foster kids should be taken care of, and if the present system is doing it with psych meds, then we have cause to act.

    I say we should move from asking to demanding. Maybe we won’t get what we want, but at least we will be making it clear that we won’t accept what is being offered, because of the strings and because of the abuse.

    Our economic system runs because they can say that the poor are unfit to compete. So we need to turn that around and show them that the poor will take what they need, if it is not provided free of strings.

    Fund raising, dirty hands? Well yes, if by that you mean corporate sponsors or institutions. No I mean tax payer money, demanded and received without making one iota of concession.

    Imagine this, 100 Foster Care Kids camped out on the lawn of a state capital, refusing to go to the care home, but refusing to leave either. So it is either a safe institution brokered with an outside party, and with zero ass kissing, or you would have to take the kids to jail. Or show that foster care as it stands now is jail.

    I think the most important point is just that we identify some places where we can act, instead of debate.

    Frances Fox-Piven’s Welfare Rights Movement was about just that, demanding the full welfare benefit one was entitled to, instead of asking for it and being made to jump through hoops and face reductions.

    And Piven has written at great length about how the poor get coopted and get very little, once they accept a place in the system and the political process. I mean an administrative job, or being part of a professional advocacy group, and they are out of action. The best strength the poor have is the ability to disrupt. Her campaign worked because at that time there had been race riots. So this was always a threat each time they had problems at a welfare office.

    One place to do this would be inhertitance, take the position that parents cannot disinherit their children. If the money is to go other places, let that decision be made by the children. Take the power away from the parents. So insist on this and do what is necessary to make it happen, without compromising.

    You show me someone who is poor or in the mental health system, and I’ll show you a familial child abuse survivor, though they may not understand this themselves because they lack political consciousness.

    Make the government understand that they either prevent child disinheritance and take care of the poor and psychologically befuddled, or people will rise up and create great disorder as they do whatever they need to in order to get what they need.

    Most of this psychiatric system is just a means of delegitimating people who are poor and who will not accept their lowly position in the world. Most of the stuff pitched at the poor is simply intended to get them to accept shit jobs.

    If they had political consciousness and could organize, they could sue for damages or get something else. But as their political consciousness is destroyed by things like alcohol, street drugs, psych meds, Recovery and Salvation Groups, or Motivationalism, they are unable to organize. But they are kept placated by disability money and so they are induced into accepting the mental illness labels.

    We cannot win every conceivable battle, but we can win some. That is unless we decide not to even try. In that case we cannot win any.

    Think of the triangle, Middle-Class Family, Capitalism, and with the enforcer being the Psychiatric System. This is what we are faced with, and so we need to find some places where we can strike!!

    Inheritance money, no strings attached citizenship pay, stopping all forms of therapeutic abuse ( all forms of therapy really ), good jobs, good wages, union representation, protection of the rights of children, adult children organizing and kicking some ass, holding parents accountable, making any problem into a problem of the parents, so that child abuse and Munchausens no longer pay, unlimited free college, universal single payer health care, universal economic safety net, no stigma as it is citizen ship pay and freely offered public housing.

    These are the things I am interested in, and in particular how to engage in conflict to start making such things happen. Look for places where all forms of advocacy, including direct action and more, can be used.

    Know anyone doing such, I want to contact them. On going actions? Ongoing litigations?

    Food Not Bombs is great! But guess what, in some places it doesn’t really go because local government has figured out that all they have to do is fail to enforce their own ordinances and allow the Born Again groups, and then they suck all the oxygen away from Food Not Bombs, so it is neutralized.

    Nomadic

    #75114
    Nomadic
    Participant

    The middle-class family tries to make you accept the self-reliance ethic. And included in this is the premise that no one owes you anything and you can never have anyone to blame except yourself.

    And so they break your wings and try to make you forget that you ever had a chance of flying. Einsteins, Mozarts, Andy Warhols, and Elon Musks are turned into Homer Simpsons. And most go along with it. But there are a few who resist. They get sent into the Mental Health System, and this tries to enforce the same premises.

    The reason some resist? Often it is because they are the designated scape goat, and so they just can’t live the denial systems. So they have no choice but to try and fight back.

    The reason this is so central to the middle-class is that these are those who experience themselves as having a choice in how they live their lives. But they don’t want to face this, so they act like they have to perform, and then transfer this onus to their children. The middle-class family feeds off of children, because it lives in Bad-Faith.

    In a small percentage of cases there is just something which lets the children see that they are being used and that the system is wrong. Some of these do go on to do great and revolutionary things. But most end up in the Mental Health or Criminal Justice Systems, or just living under bridges, or worse.

    So Capitalism has always depended upon making people believe that there is something wrong with them and so they must submit and perform and deliver to prove otherwise. The Family enforces this, backed up by the Mental Health System.

    So we have to organize and find ways to fight back. We will never get beyond Capitalism and the Family ( what D and G call Oedipus ) but we can force it make accommodations ( what D and G call axiomatics ).

    But to do this we have to start organizing and then striking some blows. So I am interested in teaming up with anyone who is striking blows, instead of doing Recovery or Therapy.

    Nomadic

    #75117
    Frank Blankenship
    Participant

    But to do this we have to start organizing and then striking some blows. So I am interested in teaming up with anyone who is striking blows, instead of doing Recovery or Therapy.

    I second that.

    I say we should move from asking to demanding. Maybe we won’t get what we want, but at least we will be making it clear that we won’t accept what is being offered, because of the strings and because of the abuse.

    I think our movement itself started with demands being made. People are more reticent now, but I see a bigger problem in a certain myopia of perspective really, a certain constricting of the field of sight.

    I think the most important point is just that we identify some places where we can act, instead of debate.

    Yes, we don’t need to be debating, we do need to be acting.

    I have a problem with the idea of making demands when doing so becomes a matter of begging handouts from the government. A big part of the problem is that mental health care so-called is managed by the government. I think the idea of creating alternatives is overrated, and the idea of severing ties with the mental health system entirely underrated.

    Demanding an end to forced treatment though, and the human rights violations that go along with it, well, that is another thing altogether. I’m all for doing so, and in so doing taking on the system more directly.

    Funding needs to, in a sense, be outcome related. What’s funded now is the mental patient career option. Yes, capitalism is to a large extent the problem in that what’s being funded is the pharmaceutical industry and mental health work (i.e the “mental illness” industry), but it’s never been working to better integrate people into the community at large. We have an irrational economic system, and in that, and other aspects of life, the mental patient is a scapegoat for this idea of success that our society has developed as corporate imperialism. When the only thing of importance in the world is increasing the wealth of the 1 %, all sorts of communities go downhill.

    The problem is not self-reliance, the problem is lack of self-reliance. You have an economic system that is profiting off people’s misfortunes, and rather than employing people, it is utilizing un and under employment to it’s own, and devious, ends. Unemployment has become build into the system. This is anything but any sort of a work ethic. People in the mental health system, mislabeled “disabled”, and subsidized by the government, are no longer expected to work for a living. Ditto, people in other social categories as well. What is the purpose of a person who has been relieved of purpose? Instead of human to human, it’s all human to bureaucracy. Want to trim fat where government is concerned? There are all these middle men that keep things moving as slowly as Heinz Ketchup. Get rid of them, and you can make things happen again.

    #75118
    Frank Blankenship
    Participant

    Oops, wrong thread.

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