Friday, January 21, 2022

Is abolishing capitalism the answer? Really? Are you *kidding* me?!

Home Forums All Things Political Is abolishing capitalism the answer? Really? Are you *kidding* me?!

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #39640

    For those on MIA who are convinced that abolishing capitalism is the answer to solving all life’s problems, including revolutionizing mental health services… please explain *why*…. And what do you think we need to put in its place? Marxism? Really? Are you kidding me?!

    Duane

    #39641

    Totalitarianism takes place from the right when a group is trying to preserve a dictatorship.
    But not when they are trying to preserve a limited form of government – a democracy, a constitutional republic.
    How can the right be seen as tyrannical when it is trying to *limit* the size and scope of a centralized government?
    It makes no sense to me.

    And the idea that totalitarianism comes always from the right is absurd.
    Lenin, Stalin, Mao
    Socialism, communism
    And a hill of skulls – millions dead
    More times than once, historic.

    I think it is a *huge* mistake to think for a minute that turning toward government – expanding services for the “mentally ill” will be a good thing. The federal government is slow to change. It has been in the business of approving psychotropics for years; in the business of seeing that more and more children are diagnosed and “treated”…. And the idea of abolishing capitalism, only to replace it with a marxist system will only make things worse!

    Duane

    “The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic.” – Joseph Stalin

    #39642
    oldhead
    Participant

    You’re really into arguing over “isms” eh?

    Before any intelligent conversation on these issue can occur it would help if you would explain how you
    define things like capitalism, conservatism, marxism, right, left etc….

    #39667

    Rather than waste a couple of hundred comments on defining political and economic theories, why don’t we simply agree to use the Encyclopedia Britannica as a neutral, non-biased source for these terms? –

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/367344/Marxism

    The question stands:

    What system do you envision to replace the capitalist system you obviously hate so much?

    Duane

    #39668

    And how will this “utopian” system make life better for people who have been diagnosed as “severely mentally ill?”

    I’m all ears.

    Duane

    #39671
    oldhead
    Participant

    [quote=39667]
    What system do you envision to replace the capitalist system you obviously hate so much?

    Duane

    [/quote]

    You haven’t defined capitalism yet.

    The Encyclopedia Brittanica is not an expert on all the subjects covered and has its own limitations and biases btw. But it’s a start.

    Anyway marxism is not a form of government; it is a political/economic science, a way of understanding present and historical economic power relationships based on an analysis of class divisions. It’s way too complicated to break down in a few sound bites, maybe someone else can do that better than I. But I don’t think any wars have ever been fought “for marxism,” though it has influenced the thinking of numerous revolutionary movements ever since.

    By marxism you probably mean socialism or communism I suspect. But those 2 terms also remain to be defined.

    #39672

    oldhead,

    I don’t recall referring to marxism as a ‘form of government’. I have used the term ‘political’ and ‘economic’ theories if memory serves. And I agree, political and economic theories can be quite complex.

    What is ‘capitalism’?
    It depends on who you ask.

    Let’s say, for the sake of argument that capitalism refers to a market-driven economy, rather than one that is state-run, with the knowledge (as previously mentioned) that there has never been a true capitalist economy. It is regulated (sometimes for the best) and corrupted by partnership with government, (otherwise known as ‘crony capitalism’) for the worst.

    And I think you would probably argue that marxism was corrupted along the way; that neither Lenin nor Stalin were true marxists. And we could go on forever…

    But I would like to read what you have to say about your vision for political/economic system, especially as this relates to mental health treatment in this country.

    Duane

    #39680
    #39713
    5parts2ahorse
    Participant

    While I understand the challenges of capitalism (Adam Smith) vs. not; I am interested in any feedback that this 28 pg. State statue (law) says to the betterment of the actual patient of the quasi-state run services that begin with, an emphasis on justice (court ordered conditional discharge) & implemented “management” of “individuals” to sometimes private profit corps. to determine the outcomes laid out in a specific time period, whose unfortunate driving interest is to serve the investor and shareholder=$$$.
    Just asking-
    Thanks

    #39846
    uprising
    Participant

    [quote=39713]While I understand the challenges of capitalism (Adam Smith) vs. not; I am interested in any feedback that this 28 pg. State statue (law) says to the betterment of the actual patient of the quasi-state run services that begin with, an emphasis on justice (court ordered conditional discharge) & implemented “management” of “individuals” to sometimes private profit corps. to determine the outcomes laid out in a specific time period, whose unfortunate driving interest is to serve the investor and shareholder=$$$.<br>
    Just asking-<br>
    Thanks[/quote]

    I couldn’t get the link to work.

    #39912
    uprising
    Participant

    [quote=39680]Marxism defined:

    http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Marxism.html

    Duane
    [/quote]

    I read the entry on “Marxism” at the link, but I found it misleading. It leads the reader to believe that Marx’s analysis is some interesting but obsolete failure of history. That is simply not true, since Marxian analysis is more relevant today than ever – especially since capitalists crashed their own economy in 2007 and relied on socialism (“too big to fail” bailouts) for themselves, while leaving ordinary people hung out to dry.

    But then, I wouldn’t expect The Liberty Fund, “a nonprofit foundation… which promulgates the libertarian views of its founder through publishing, conferences, and educational resources,” to have an unbiased view of Marxian economic analysis.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by uprising.
    #40095
    oldhead
    Participant

    OK I’m back — did everyone drop out?

    Anyway, no definition of capitalism yet. I would define it as the exploitation of labor by those who own the means of production, i.e. factories, printing presses, etc. As such the needs of people are subservient to the accumulation of wealth, which is concentrated in
    fewer and fewer hands as time goes by.

    This is an incomplete rundown, I know — anyone want to expand?

    #40506
    uprising
    Participant

    I think that’s a solid definition, oldhead.

    I would add that, because the heart of capitalism is exploitation, it is a crazy-making system of institutionalized abuse.

    #40508
    oldhead
    Participant

    One thing Marx wrote about was the alienation of the worker from the product of his/her labor, e.g. the guy who worked on an assembly line making shoes for other people which he could never afford himself. This translates into most of what people do today: working at a “job”
    which offers no personal or creative fulfillment but is absolutely essential for physical survival. And that makes people both sick and crazy. A marxist psychologist Herbert Marcuse wrote in the 60’s that (paraphrasing) the destructiveness of the present is best measured not in terms of past history but compared to its own potential. Strike any chords?

    #41063
    humanbeing
    Participant

    Money is the root of all evil, Duane…

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
  • The forum ‘All Things Political’ is closed to new topics and replies.