Sunday, August 18, 2019

The Bridge

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This topic contains 1,155 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  The_cat 7 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #48563

    boans
    Participant

    Had a funny thing happen today. My friend who is having trouble with words was telling me that her daughter was seeing a doctor to help stop smoking. She was telling me that her daughter was going to have that ….. you know…. oh whats it called? Where they relax you (I thought anaesthetic) and put things in your head (I thought electrodes). I was shocked. Your daughter is going to have ECT to stop smoking?

    So I called her daughter and asked and it turns out she is going to have hypnosis lmao.

    Above I wrote;

    The signature goes below the following statement on the Form 1;

    “I have examined the person being referred and, having regard to Section 26 of the Mental Health Act 1996, suspect that the person should be made an involuntary patient. I therefore refer the person to the above hospital or place for an examination by a psychiatrist”

    “Signature of referrer”……………………………….

    So they drop “reasonable grounds” which is fair enough though a little misleading. But by signing the Form the referrer is saying the person meets the criteria or standard set out in S 26 (and by default S4).

    Turn the Form 1 over and there are the criteria for referral. A copy of Section 26 of the Act. There is no doubt that I did not meet those criteria, that the AMHP could not have observed what he wrote as observations, there was no mental illness, and the only risk was “potential for damage to reputation and meaningful relationships”. Not enough. The detention was unlawful.

    It really fascinates me that the Chief Psychiatrist would be so negligent in his duty. How many other unlawful detentions has he mishandled as a result of not understanding the protections of the Act? The Act is good, but not a lot of use if the C P gets to rewrite it to suit doctors needs. We just want to be able to snatch people from the street and no questions asked. I wonder where it will all go.

    Oh I got another email from the newspaper editor today, they want me to call them now. Man, it was only a small comment. Somebody must have got a laugh from it lol.

    #48582

    boans
    Participant

    Concerned, worried, afraid, fearful. All adjectives.

    I’ve just been reading some comments by Fred and Jonah and it has got me thinking.

    First statement on the Triage notes when my wife called Mental Health Services;

    “P/C (phone call) from wife in a distressed state. Concerned that (Boans) needs to be admitted to hospital.”

    Nothing about wife being afraid of being assaulted or fearful. My question becomes because one is concerned about another loved one are you automatically afraid of them? Or is this an assumption that is easily made? Mentally Ill person on the loose, everyone is afraid lol.

    So this comment about “concerned” has gone from that to being “fearful for her safety”, and then “wife fears being assaulted”. If only they knew how much I adored her, and she me. Oh well, can’t expect them to be aware of that. Though I did explain to the AMHP that I was pissed about having to leave my wife and home because of the threat and abuse from her family. Wonder if this was projection on the part of the AMHP, maybe he is a wife beater? Certainly an alcoholic, that was obvious to me. Maybe his job of bearing false witness is having an effect on him. Driving him to drink? And those two mental health workers standing behind him, were they holding him up? lol. Drunk before lunch on Friday?

    Psychiatrist asked me how I knew he was an alcoholic. I haven’t had a drink for 17 years but still know one when I see them. Had a friend who was a long time heroin user and he said it’s the same with that. He could tell who the users were in a room full of people when others couldn’t spot it. Maybe I should have got a blank Form from the AMHP and filled out a referral for him? Detox and Rehab.

    I know when I started asking other patients about him those that knew him said he was a pathological liar. I understand how in that environment lying to patients to achieve outcomes might become a habit. And there’s not a lot one can do about a liar, except when they start doing it on Statutory Declarations because of laziness. He can lie all he wants on any of the other documents, and it’s not ethical, but it’s also not criminal. This one piece of paper I’ve got though is different. It has serious consequences for a person, and if he fills it out with the intent of deceiving …. woops.

    Guess everybody is at the Film Festival at present. Will be quiet around here for a week probably. Look forward to hearing about the highlights, what were the best movies etc. There’s a few things been shown for our Mental Health week, but it’s all been a promotion of psychiatry. Making me wonder if they will show anything critical at all. Suppose I’ll have to keep looking to find out.

    Hope your all doing fine. Music in my next post 🙂

    #48635

    boans
    Participant

    Okay, at a point where it needs to be debated if “potential for damage to reputation and meaningful relationships” could constitute “reasonable grounds” for detention.

    I can imagine situations where this might be the case but I want to look at my specific circumstances, particularly as this may be the last line of defense for the AMHP.

    AMHP turns up at my home and has police drag me out of bed and through intimidation (ie surrounding me) gains an interview. Not that I was worried about this because I knew there was nothing wrong with me. However, in his mind he has made the assumption that I am possibly going to assault my wife for setting me up in such a fashion. So I understand he may have made an assumption that there was “potential for damage to reputation and meaningful relationships” that he and his associates have CAUSED by attending. What’s his solution given that he has no other reasonable grounds for detention? Fabricate the grounds required by the Act? Done, present hearsay as observed fact.

    However, what occurs after my “potential for damage to reputation and meaningful relationships” has been avoided? I am apprehended by two police officers and taken to a police van parked on my mother and father in laws lawn. They turn up as police are searching me and loading me into the van. Three Government officers, and two police and their son in law being locked in a police van? Must have looked like a drug bust? Hmmmm that might do my reputation and meaningful relationships some damage.

    Fortunately my wife knew what was going on. She could explain to her mother and father that there was no need to worry, no drugs involved. It was just that I was being taken away to be locked in a mental institution. So that would have saved any damage to my reputation and meaningful relationships.

    And of course if I was angry about being set up by my wife and jumped in bed by police, locking me up unlawfully would certainly reduce that anger. Of course it would right? And then writing on the documents that my wife feared being assaulted by my wouldn’t cause any problems with my meaningful relationships would it? I mean I wouldn’t wonder why my wife would say such things that were patently not true. Did she maybe lie to have me locked up? Noooo nobody would consider that to be the case. So the weeks of arguing over it wouldn’t be considered damage to meaningful relationships either.

    It would seem that the way to avoid any “potential” is to destroy any reputation and meaningful relationships, and that potential can not then be actualised by the person. “you might do damage, so here let me destroy this before you get the chance”.

    And then the documents. Oh how poisonous that was. FOI officer convincing my wife that she could ensure I didn’t get my documents, so just lie and deceive your husband. It will be good for your “meaningful relationship”. I mean relationships work so well when no one can trust anyone eh?

    Yep, I look at a field of dry grass and think to myself “That has the potential to cause a large fire, so rather than leave it like that I think I’ll throw a match on it”. Potential gone 🙂

    Whilst in a general sense it might be that “potential for damage to reputation and meaningful relationships” could be considered “reasonable grounds” for detention, one needs to examine the specifics of each situation. I ask that you consider the above and answer the question, was it really “reasonable”?

    Cause a freakin train wreck.

    Nowhere is this clearer than the Psychiatrists report. At the end of the report it basically says No Illness, No risk and detaining him for “deescalation” is only making matters worse, and he could not justify “medicating”. The detention causes the anger, and so you detain someone to reduce that anger? I see a problem too Doc. Be easy if police could just walk up to anyone they wanted to arrest and punch them in the face, and then when they react you beat them to a pulp and arrest them for assault. Hey, someone take a letter, Dear Police Commissioner, I have had an idea I’d like you to consider…….lmao.

    Therefore the question of “reasonable grounds” becomes one of ‘Is it fair for an AMHP to create a situation that constitutes “reasonable grounds” for detention?’. If so they should be issued with cattle prods, and where there is no “reasonable grounds” they can just give the ‘suspect’ a few prods and they will have observable “reasonable grounds”.

    Or maybe I’m not being ‘reasonable’.

    And so what is the AMHP defense at this point? “I observed a perfectly normal human reaction to my behaviour, and thought that this reaction to my behaviour had potential to cause damage to reputation and meaningful relationships. So I listed this observation as a symptom of an illness rather than what it was (a perfectly normal reaction) and thus had grounds to detain”. Going to deny it? Not a chance, you wrote it in your post interview clinical notes. And what did you do? Actualised that potential by detaining the person unlawfully.

    “Your Honor, when I interviewed the suspect, he was clearly agitated by being questioned by a police officer over false allegations, I therefore knew he was guilty of the offense and presented the lies told to me my the accuser as observed facts, thus giving them credibility, and requiring a term of imprisonment”. No problem with that. “No Your Honor, the suspect should not be angry with the accuser for being put on trial and risking false imprisonment (and ‘treatment’) based on exaggerations and misrepresentations. That would be unreasonable”.

    #48639

    boans
    Participant

    The Chief Psychiatrist. Protecting the rights of consumers, carers and the public?

    Our Chief Psychiatrist before he was the CP was the head of the Royal College of Psychiatrists. They thanked him for his service in promoting the interests of psychiatry and psychiatrists. Seems he might be better able to do this as the CP? Bit like putting David Duke, and the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan in charge of Equal Opportunities. What better way to promote the interests of the Klan than by ensuring that any rights for racial/ethnic minorities that have been achieved are not enforced?

    It was a good political move and should result in absolute power for Doctors. Weaken any watchdog bodies, Mental Health Law Centre, Official Visitors, advocates, and ignore any laws designed to protect the consumers, carers and the public. Just pretend like they don’t exist. And Doctors can have the status of Gods, untouchable, unaccountable, and to be worshiped.

    Interesting that the Chief Psychiatrist doesn’t need to be a psychiatrist. Might be better appointing someone without a conflict of interest, like a civil rights lawyer. That might see the rights of consumers, cares and the public at least observed.

    It could never be achieved overtly. For example if the laws were made to give Doctors absolute powers, the public would never accept this. So appoint someone who is prepared to be negligent in their duties and if the public should complain then one can point to the laws and say no your protected.

    I like it, looks like chicken, smells like chicken, it just tastes like S%$t.

    One for the ‘Grand Wizard’, whoever he is lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2TYKmQc0L4

    #48674

    uprising
    Participant

    Thinks have been bad again with dp/dr. Unable to write. I’ve been lurking, though.

    Hey boans, any more developments with the newspaper?

    That first Clash album is one of the greats, imo.

    Nothing about wife being afraid of being assaulted or fearful. My question becomes because one is concerned about another loved one are you automatically afraid of them? Or is this an assumption that is easily made? Mentally Ill person on the loose, everyone is afraid lol.

    This also shows how psychiatry is not about the feelings of the supposedly “mentally ill” person; it’s about the feelings of everyone else.

    My parents forced me to go to a psychiatrist when I was a kid. I did not want to go, but it wasn’t about how I felt. Since I had no choice in the matter, I at first gave the shrink the benefit of the doubt that he wanted to be supportive. It didn’t take me long, however, to discover that he was telling my parents everything I had told him in confidence. So I stopped telling him anything. Next thing I know, my mother is picking me up from school under false pretenses – with a suitcase full of my clothes hidden in the trunk. “Mom, where are we going?” Psychiatry is not about the feelings of the psychiatrized.

    #48675

    uprising
    Participant

    uprising;

    if you had a chance to relocate now, could you handle the stress of it? I’m asking because I would really like to move from this place, but the stress of even spending the night in a strqnge place sends me into a spin…

    Had a dream last night (in the 2 hours I slept) about hanging out with a group of people who felt like ‘family’-it was cozy and comfortable, there were kids there, people doing different activities…and then I walked home. It’s pretty bad when waking up is like stepping into the nightmare.

    Hey humanbeing,

    Hope you’re alright out there. If I had a chance to move, I would take it, because part of the hell of my situation is that I’m not sure how I’m ever going to get out of here. That said, I know it would be very hard on me. My nervous system is fried. I wish I could have a dream like you had. Sleeping and waking for me is going from one nightmare to another.

    It’s really messed up too, how much I’ve been having problems with dissociation lately. I looked on Surviving Antidepressants and found that many people on there seemed to have had dp/dr well after they came off the drugs, so I’m trying to remind myself of that and how it’s probably not all that unusual what I’m going through. But it sucks so badly not to be able to write when the only mutual support I get is online.

    #48677

    schizoeffective
    Participant

    Hey everybody,

    Sorry to be MIA from MIA for awhile. I got so panicked that I wouldn’t have time before the snows hit to get what I needed done at my place. Last winter was a depressive nightmare. I think it was largely due to accumulated exhaustion from the last 5 years of my failed attempts to stay in the workforce. I tried so hard, year after year, to keep up. My goals weren’t lofty. As I said here before, after my onset of schiz, all that I had worked for just got flushed down the toilet, grad school, career, bright future,
    Flush
    Flush
    Flush.

    All I was trying to do in the years since was to be able to continue supporting myself, and keep my janitorial and cleaning jobs. You mention it being quiet around here due to the film festival Boans? What a laugh that is! How many of those who post in the forum’s are going I imagine? I live on about 2$ a day for food, the thought of being able to buy new clothes is incomprehensible. Something like travel? Vacation? A film festival? These things sound like a dream to me now. A part of me is so happy things like this are finally happening. Another part of me is so bitter. I feel so often just like the sick child who sits in their house, looking out a window at a world full of kids who get to play, to participate. Not just separate from it all, but walled off behind glass, able to see everything but touch nothing. I know there are so many things I could do with my life, if I had the opportunity, I’m only 37 years old for fuck’s sake! I have so much to offer, but for so many years there has been absolutely no end in sight to the massive obstacles that lay between me and that reality. It’s not laziness. I push my body so hard to compensate for my other inadequacies it is always on the edge of collapse. I don’t mind menial work at all, it just never pays enough to come close to letting you step off the treadmill of poverty. I’ve never had health insurance so even the smallest injuries can become a catastrophic financial event. I finally, finally broke down after 10 years of failure and got on disability. It has helped a little, I would never be able to write and communicate in a place like this without it, but it’s still like trying to cover a gaping wound with a bandaid. Trying to exist in a world that caters only to the “fit” so often feels like an exercise in futility. One of the biggest problems with our broken mental health system is that those of us who do need real adaptive assistance never get it. Those of us informed enough to see it for what it is live in constant fear of coming under its aegis, or returning to it if one has escaped it. I want and need better access to therapies and other types of assistance. Just not those pharmaceutical measures that nearly always, do far more harm than good.

    A new one. I write these all the time but then I see how much editing would improve them and they just sit, because I can’t ever get back to them. So I’m going to try to be a bit more relaxed about it. If ya’ll are patient, I promise they’ll get better!

    “I trusted my family
    To love and protect me.
    Instead they did damage control
    When my grandfather raped me.
    Follow the money.
    I trusted my teachers
    And community
    My friends and my sangha
    All wholeheartedly.
    When I went mad
    They all scattered like leaves.
    As though afraid that I had
    Some contagious disease.
    Then I trusted the system
    To put humpty dumpty
    back on the wall.
    They just made it worse.
    The only sickness they cured
    Was the one we call
    “Trust.”
    So I built my own wall
    10,000 feet high.
    It’s strong and it’s safe
    But it shuts out the sky…

    It’s my peace and my prison
    The bargain I made
    I traded the world for
    The freedom
    Of bars and a cage.
    Now I want to get out
    Behind these walls
    I’ve grown very strong
    And clear about so much
    That is right and wrong.
    I’ve found my own way to
    Sanity
    But I’m like a cat
    My whiskers telling me
    I’ve grown to large
    To get back
    The way I came in.
    My refuge a trap
    My isolation a sin.
    To big to get past
    The bars at my gates
    Strung with the barbed wire
    From a heart full of hate.
    To heavy to swim
    The moat beyond my wall
    Lit night and day
    With guard towers
    I manned long ago.
    That I watch myself with
    The eyes in the back
    Of my head
    That I filled
    all the holes with
    Your world punched in my skull.
    That world made me a
    Monster.
    I made myself safe
    From me and from you
    Behind these gates.
    So just don’t try to send
    Your white knights
    Too close to my cage.
    My heart is a minefield
    Studded with rage.

    Let’s make a deal…
    I’ll come out finally
    When the world isn’t full
    Of sadistic quacks
    Ready to shove down my throat
    A bright plastic pill
    And crawl up my cunt
    With your fingers
    Of evil goodwill.
    To prop me up
    Like an empty
    Sick sock puppet
    To suck air.
    While you violate me
    With your “managed care”
    and cut me off
    from the world
    With the word
    Schizophrenia
    Held like a knife to my
    Throat.
    That word is as hollow
    As your empty shrill
    World.
    It’s just a stick
    That you use
    To beat up
    Those of us,
    That don’t fit
    Your bullshit mold.
    I see things you don’t,
    True.
    Some of them aren’t there,
    But I see much more
    that is Real
    That you could hardly bear
    To know walks among you
    Outside the
    Phenomenal World.
    Ancient
    Unseen

    They’re all there.
    All the ghosts
    All the heroes
    The Gods
    The rich myths
    of our past
    All the signposts
    Unread
    All the bright things
    Forgotten
    Not lost.
    They don’t want
    Anything from us
    But to give us the
    Future they lost.
    They exist in the places

    Love

    carves
    Out of time
    And appear with great
    Frequency
    In the psychotic mind.

    #48679

    boans
    Participant

    Hey Folk,

    it’s been a tough few days for me. Still revolving back to a place of comfort after my appointment with the psychiatrist. Beneficial, but painful at the same time.

    The Clash first album sure was great Uprising. I’m sure I said elsewhere that they used to practice under the M40 motorway near my school.

    I’m sitting on the newspaper at the moment, need to play that card carefully. Though I would love to spark their interest in the Chief Psychiatrist neglecting the rights of the public. Maybe they can get him or the Minister to talk.

    Above I described how the AMHP must believe that a person needs to be an involuntary patient before they can exercise their power to refer and detain. It’s a significant point. There’s one document that I haven’t gone into much detail about as yet, the Post interview Clinical Notes written by the AMHP at the hospital.

    If he believed that I met the criteria for referral, ie that I should be made an involuntary patient, why did he write at the end of these notes “Would require further assessment”? Now I’m not saying that this proves he did not believe that I should be an involuntary patient, but it raises some questions for me. Why would I require further assessment if he had already decided that I should be invol? Sounds more like an “I don’t know if this person should be admitted, but if you have a look… “. That of course is a breach of the Act. Refer as a result of meeting the criteria, NOT because you think there might be something wrong. AMHP must demonstrate that they SAW something wrong. Similar to the situation with police who can’t send you for trial because they think you might have committed an offense, but must believe that an offense has occurred and if presented with the observed facts, a judge would convict. Still not clear am I lol.

    These post interview notes are very instructive, but I haven’t shared them with anyone yet. Certainly the discussion with the psychiatrist on Tuesday would have been a lot of fun with them. Reduced to “agitated” and “potential for damage” on the Form, she could not possibly have held any ground on the reasonableness of the referral. I won’t push it with her just yet though (if at all).

    Glad you guys are back posting, and I love reading what you have written Lindsey. I have an appointment with the psychologist in a short while so will write a little more later today. I’ll present the post interview notes to him and see what he has to say then.

    #48701

    humanbeing
    Participant

    I’m glad you all are back, too. I’m also having (what’s new?) a hard time…and I feel a kinship with what is happening to all of us here. I admire all of you, putting sentences together, stringing thoughs like beads into something coherent-

    Not sleeping and crying all the time-haven’t really cried until just recently. I miss my kids so much. I so wish I had a family who loved me. I’ve been reading about scapegoating-it’s all there, the trajectory my life has taken-the underfunctioning, the lack of self esteem, the sensitivites, the dislike of competition…on and on…

    My friendship base gets smaller and smaller the longer the PAWS marches on; I’m suppose to be telling myself that I’m getting better and better as each day, yet as each sleepless night passes I realize there’s nothing waiting for me execpt old age and irrelevancy. Even if it gets better I won’t have the love of my beautiful, smart, talented babies…I lost them in the courtroom 15 years ago, and then I lost them again this year. When I asked my son what he wanted from me (during that last, sick phone call) he said he wanted my love and support. Guess what? I need that too? *shrug* Hey, money DOES buy you love…

    Regarding the inability to handle stress—My (one) friend, the homeopath, came up with a way I could repay her for office visits-by housesitting for her on the rare occasions her and her husband go out of town. Last week she had it all set up where she would pick me up, take me out to her place,(rural, off-grid) show me the routine (having huge difficulties spelling! ever trip out on words and their origins?) so I’d be trained for upcoming dates of departure. I got so stressed out planning what to take, what food to bring, making sure everything was covered here at my apt.- I got absolutely out of my mind freaked out! The adrenalin pumping, coursing, flooding…if I can’t handle a couple of days out of town, how in the hell can I possibly think of moving? I so want to start new somewhere fresh, without the memories of disappointment and failure everywhere I turn.

    Uprising-the d/p and d/r comes and goes for me; no sleep seems to bring it on. This not knowing when it will end sucks. This whole thing sucks…this whole thing has brought the dysfuntion in my ‘family’ to a head and I’m swimming in pus right now…no one who hasn’t been thru this can possibly understand, ever. Thanks for being out there and ‘getting’ it.

    Lindsey-good for you for getting all cozy and tucked in for the winter; I like manual labor, too. It’s immediate gratification. The best I’ve felt during this horror show has been when I was working for a friend in their vineyard last summer…I’m not 37, however:(-thank you for sharing yourself…your creativity is inspiring.

    and boans
    the way you lay it all out; I admire your diligence and tenacity.

    #48705

    boans
    Participant

    Thanks humanbeing,

    funny because the subject came up with the psychologist today. He asked me what I was like when playing cricket and lost. I explained that I never gave up until the last run was scored and we had lost. Gave everything I had, and then sat and thought about what I could do to ensure it didn’t happen again. When I got home I realised something important though.

    I don’t mind being beaten in the game, but finding out that the other person cheated changes everything. And that’s what went on with me. Had the AMHP had reasonable grounds for detaining me, I wouldn’t have been happy, but I would have accepted the loss. But he didn’t, and he cheated by making it up. And that is totally unacceptable. Because if he has cheated in my game, …..

    The Mental Health Act is simply not to be used for political purposes. If I accept that I was agitated, there were reasons for that. I had been drugged with benzos and dragged out of my bed by police in my underwear, and my home had a bunch of people who I hadn’t invited there. So I was agitated with my wife for doing that, but significantly, not at the AMHP or police. As I saw it at the time they were just doing their job. The AMHP though would have realised that my agitation towards my wife had been caused by the drugging and their “visit” (as he terms it in his notes). Hence he writes on the Form 1 “potential for damage to reputation and meaningful relationships”. So what’s he going to do? No illness, and only a risk caused by his attendance, he fabricates the criteria for referral and locks me up.

    He has used his power to detain to get out of a sticky situation. Totally unlawful, and not why he was given the power to detain. I knew, he knew, and I get the feeling that the other mental health workers and police knew that what he was doing was unlawful. Okay, that’s what the Chief Psychiatrist is for eh? Wrong, his letter suggests that he is more than happy for AMHP, Doctors and psychiatrists to do whatever they want to cover up any mistakes they make using the powers they have under the Mental Health Act. And he will look the other way while they do it. That is a major concern. Not just for me but for the whole community. It’s the sort of thing you hear occurring in dictatorships.

    The law as I read it seems to say that the AMHP can’t detain anyone without reasonable grounds, and the AMHP obviously know this because he had to fabricate them. He knows what the protections are. So why would the Chief Psychiatrist not know what they are? Anyway, I have sent a letter to the Principle Solicitor of the Mental Health Law Centre asking if the community is protected by a burden of proof, or is it as the Chief Psychiatrist claims with his “expert legal advice” that an AMHP can detain anyone they wish without reason. I’m looking forward to an expert legal opinion on the Chief Psychiatrists expert legal opinion lmao.

    He’s wrong and I’m right, and the AMHP has been caught cheating 🙂 If you all lived a bit closer I’d take you all for lunch and show you the letters and how the C.P. has refused to accept that what is written in the Act is actually what is written in the Act. Shame I haven’t got a lawyer and am having to do this myself. I am rock solid on what I’m saying now. I’ve made mistakes along the way, misunderstood some things etc, but now I KNOW.

    You don’t get to use the Mental Health Act to resolve your problems. I challenge anyone to say that it is reasonable to detain a person under the Mental Health Act for being appropriately “agitated”. Agitated with cause, and directed appropriately. Indefensible. It is not an illness to be “agitated” with cause, and if there was a risk he had two police officers present who could have been given the task of dealing with it. Instead he though by locking me in the ‘cooler’ he would ‘fix’ the problem.

    Pure chance that my in laws arrived as they were locking me in the police van, but very very ugly. Lucky my wife could explain that I hadn’t committed any crime, and that I was just being locked into a mental institution, whew, saved my reputation and meaningful relationships there eh? Not that they would tell the rest of the family or anything.

    There is a law firm here with a partner who is the president or something of the CCHR. I’m not a Scientologist but was tempted to contact him to see if he would like to take this on. Huge negligence claim might get their attention. Limitation period has passed but it could easily be argued for an extension. My share of the house would see me with legal rep. At least a decent retainer. Ah well, not in my hands at the moment.

    Anyone know where I can get like a Material Safety Data Sheet on benzos? I need the LD 50 and LD 100. Yep, I was a Boy Scout lol Be Prepared.

    I will not forget the support I have received from you guys.

    One for the Taqwacore (Islamic Punk) fans among you. Something here for MiA, the Bad Brains, Big Take Over. Oh and don’t forget Report all SuspicioUS Activity 🙂

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mhP4zfa3qc

    #48707

    uprising
    Participant

    Ha! Big Take Over. Awesome!

    Anyone know where I can get like a Material Safety Data Sheet on benzos? I need the LD 50 and LD 100. Yep, I was a Boy Scout lol Be Prepared.

    That’s not research that I’m going to help with. We don’t have anyone else who can quote the Hagakure and the first Body Count album.

    #48708

    schizoeffective
    Participant

    Ha! Big Take Over. Awesome!

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>boans wrote:</div>
    Anyone know where I can get like a Material Safety Data Sheet on benzos? I need the LD 50 and LD 100. Yep, I was a Boy Scout lol Be Prepared.

    That’s not research that I’m going to help with. We don’t have anyone else who can quote the Hagakure and the first Body Count album.

    LMAO! That gave me a much needed belly laugh this

    I’m game to do some research. My parent’s business uses a lot of automotive chemicals so we print out MSDS sheets all the time. Do you know if MSDS data is the same internationally? I’ll look it up. It should be the same I think. Do you know the specific benzo’s in particular will be in question?

    🙂

    #48711

    schizoeffective
    Participant

    Boans, here are a few:

    Xanax:

    http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/x/xanaxtab.pdf

    http://www.pfizer.com/files/products/material_safety_data/ALPRAZOLAM%20TABLETS.pdf

    Lorazepam

    http://www.drugbank.ca/system/msds/DB00186.pdf?1373674180

    Klonopin

    http://www.gene.com/download/pdf/job_12%20KlonopinTablets1.0mgMSDS.pdf

    Diazepam

    http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/d0899?lang=en&region=US

    These are easy to find. If you know the precise benzo and the formulation in question try searching the name + MSDS. I’m no expert, but I think having at least the brand name of the Rx will be important. A lot of these drugs are manufactured by multiple outfits and in really different formulations. The lethal dosages might be really different relative to those factors.
    I also would think doing a date specific search will get you the newest ones. If you filtered for just info from say, 2013-2014 you might get different info from something from say, 2007.

    #48712

    uprising
    Participant

    LindSEy!

    Before the thread gets too much farther along, I want to say-

    All I was trying to do in the years since was to be able to continue supporting myself, and keep my janitorial and cleaning jobs. You mention it being quiet around here due to the film festival Boans? What a laugh that is! How many of those who post in the forum’s are going I imagine? I live on about 2$ a day for food, the thought of being able to buy new clothes is incomprehensible. Something like travel? Vacation? A film festival? These things sound like a dream to me now. A part of me is so happy things like this are finally happening. Another part of me is so bitter. I feel so often just like the sick child who sits in their house, looking out a window at a world full of kids who get to play, to participate. Not just separate from it all, but walled off behind glass, able to see everything but touch nothing. I know there are so many things I could do with my life, if I had the opportunity, I’m only 37 years old for fuck’s sake! I have so much to offer, but for so many years there has been absolutely no end in sight to the massive obstacles that lay between me and that reality. It’s not laziness. I push my body so hard to compensate for my other inadequacies it is always on the edge of collapse. I don’t mind menial work at all, it just never pays enough to come close to letting you step off the treadmill of poverty. I’ve never had health insurance so even the smallest injuries can become a catastrophic financial event. I finally, finally broke down after 10 years of failure and got on disability. It has helped a little, I would never be able to write and communicate in a place like this without it, but it’s still like trying to cover a gaping wound with a bandaid. Trying to exist in a world that caters only to the “fit” so often feels like an exercise in futility. One of the biggest problems with our broken mental health system is that those of us who do need real adaptive assistance never get it. Those of us informed enough to see it for what it is live in constant fear of coming under its aegis, or returning to it if one has escaped it. I want and need better access to therapies and other types of assistance. Just not those pharmaceutical measures that nearly always, do far more harm than good.

    ^THIS.

    Thanks for making me feel less alone.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by  uprising.
    #48714

    schizoeffective
    Participant

    Any day any time Uprising! It makes a huge difference for me too. I’d trade 100 grade A therapists for just one or two folks who know what this shit is like inside and out. It continues to astonish me how much difference it makes, how much it keeps the worst of my isolation firmly at bay.

    “Healing is impossible in loneliness; it is the opposite of loneliness. Conviviality is healing. To be healed we must come with all the other creatures to the feast of Creation.”

    Wendell Berry
    (pg.99, “The Body and the Earth”)

    Cause you know with just about everyone else…
    It’s the Kermit nod

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