Sunday, June 16, 2019

The Bridge

Home Forums Community The Bridge

Tagged: 

This topic contains 1,155 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  The_cat 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 196 through 210 (of 1,156 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #48727

    uprising
    Participant

    Kermit Nod. That is perfect.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>uprising wrote:</div>
    Ha! Big Take Over. Awesome!

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>boans wrote:</div><br>
    Anyone know where I can get like a Material Safety Data Sheet on benzos? I need the LD 50 and LD 100. Yep, I was a Boy Scout lol Be Prepared.

    That’s not research that I’m going to help with. We don’t have anyone else who can quote the Hagakure and the first Body Count album.

    LMAO! That gave me a much needed belly laugh this

    I’m game to do some research. My parent’s business uses a lot of automotive chemicals so we print out MSDS sheets all the time. Do you know if MSDS data is the same internationally? I’ll look it up. It should be the same I think. Do you know the specific benzo’s in particular will be in question?<br>
    :)

    I’ve been trying to figure this out. I might be wrong but I think there may have been a misunderstanding here. I was trying to be funny, but I was talking about boans. (I can’t quote much of anything anymore.) But I wasn’t clear and, who knows, maybe I had misunderstood something as well. Anyhow, sorry for the awkwardness. :/

    #48752

    schizoeffective
    Participant

    Awkward uprising?
    Brother, please!
    My
    life is lived in the constant company of awkwardness, just as I imagine yours is. But your comment was anything but awkward. You spoke of being only able to quote the Hagakure…
    Those words resonated with me as deeply as any I have encountered on MIA.

    You have not typed a single word, in this entire thread, that I have not related to, intimately.

    But this one, most of all.

    I posted this to a blog comment today, it should explain the matter, that I, in my endless incoherence struggled to make:

    The same is true for meditation, in my case, formal Zen practice and training. Part of the problem stems from the demographic of most folks who have the means, time and privilege to engage in such practices, teachers and students alike. They don’t come from the kind of backgrounds that breed trauma like a petri dish. I was drawn to the practice for many reasons, many of them genuine Bodhichitta. At the heart of my seeking was also a way to find the lost parts of myself, lost in incest and deeply buried. Much of the “Great Matter of Birth and Death” I was trying to resolve was just that fracture between mind, body and soul that trauma causes. I did great for almost a decade, but these practices are very very effective in bringing up whatever is hidden. This is also why they can be so dangerous for those of us who carry such fault lines. Authentic contemplative practices are a tool, like a shovel or ice pick. They do what they were designed to do, bit by bit, the small self is eroded. For most people that is a source of liberation and enlightenment, and I had those experiences too. The danger comes when a person, like myself is eroding much that is crucial to wholeness at the same time. We need our egos, and a healthy sense of self to have boundaries, agency and protection. The consciousness raising tools we use can be blind to the need to go slow, to titrate, be gentle, and to beware of flooding. Zen practice in particular can be violent, it does what we ask it to very quickly, and in my case, all too well. In 2003, smack in the middle of my 37th sesshin, 10 years of trauma came up into consciousness like a hurricane. Ripping my sanity away like a tarp in a high wind. My sangha did not understand, and were terrified to see someone who had been so strong, crumple like a dead plant. I don’t think it was just my trauma though, it was also the onset of schizophrenia. But what happens when someone who has spent their entire young adult life engaged in a practice that teaches that your thoughts are not real except in their consequence, develops schizophrenia? What happens is amazing, and I am so grateful for the same practices that seemingly “drove me mad.” That same practice gave me the tools to sort out reality from delusion. The tools to confront my psychosis head on, and decipher the very real healing and insight it offers. They gave me the sense to stay away from both facilities and antipsychotics until I had sorted myself out. I realized it wasn’t ever my practice, it was those many years of the violation of self, and a hefty genetic predisposition, that caused the condition I live with each moment.

    In conclusion, yes, these practices will unearth trauma. They also give you the best tools in existence to confront it, your mind, your madness and your promise within the walking nightmare of psychosis your life can become. I’m very grateful to my teachers, and to the zen tradition. Especially the koan “Sei and her soul are separated”. That koan took my broken life away from me, however “functional” it may have appeared. That same koan gave me the ability to forge a new life. I’m less functional now, but I found the part of me that got left behind,
    HER,
    SHE,
    ME.

    I don’t run anymore, I stumble. But I stumble because she is with me now, that broken part of myself. We are tethered together by love and fate, like two sisters in a sack race. My life is very different, but I will never leave her side again. I dropped straight into hell to get her back and I will never walk until she can walk with me. I will never begin to run until she can keep up.

    One day,
    we will realize
    we are the same Sei.
    I will wait
    as long as it takes.

    Here is a koan for you MIA. If I can write something like this, how can schizophrenia be either unreal, or a death sentence? It is not, I am here, in the middle of madness, speaking to you.

    Are you listening?

    Uprising, I don’t have to ask if you are listening. You aren’t listening, you don’t have to, you LIVE this reality. Every word you type reveals the gigantic size of the heart that beats in your chest. Your heart is so big, I can see and feel it from here, miles away. You have kept me from so much of my own ruin, with your gentle compassion for weeks now. I could not bear it if you were to think your incredible compassion does not thunder through this thread, or is unheard.

    Please do not think, for one moment, that the brilliance your soul shines out with is unappreciated. It is treasured, and cherished. Just as you are.

    I hope this clears up any confusion my fumbling with words may have caused?

    So much love to you.
    What you ARE
    is seen in stark
    blinding
    And yet
    gentle
    brilliance here.
    If the people in your life
    Don’t see you for what
    You are.
    That is their loss,
    And our gain.
    Sending enough love to
    You
    To knock the universe
    Clean away from it’s
    Axis.

    #48753

    uprising
    Participant

    (((Love)))

    Thank you, Lindsey. There’s nothing I can say in reply that would be adequate. And what you wrote about finding the part of you that got left behind is just beautiful.

    But what I’d meant to say initially was that only boans can quote both the Hagakure and the first Body Count album, and we can’t afford to lose him. That’s what I’m worried about. I just wish I’d been more clear.

    #48754

    schizoeffective
    Participant

    Good!

    We are on the same page now. I’m someone, like yourself, who is endlessly misinterpreted. I value Boans, yourself, humanbeing, copy cat (long absent) for what you are. The very rare individuals who can articulate
    Both the raw
    The unshaped
    Unshared,
    Unheard

    Voices that sing out from the depths of what is commonly supposed to be
    The point of no return.

    We are here.
    We have returned.
    We rejoice in good food,
    Great movies,
    Great philosophies
    Great ART
    Great men and women
    Whose shoulders we
    Gratefully stand on.

    We are not “other”
    We are not “insane”
    We are not depressive garbage
    Throw away “people”.

    We are in fact, living with, what they have all thrown away.

    You are depressed uprising?
    I’m sure it has occurred to you that the titanic weight of the pain you process each day cannot be just your own?

    It’s too big.
    It’s too vast.
    You are downloading into
    Your soul
    Pain that is not yours…
    I’m ok with that.
    I’m ok with that burden.

    What really hurts is when
    The world
    Whose pain you are holding
    Spits in your face
    Shits on your soul
    Bites the hand that
    Holds
    The grief
    It cannot contain
    And be
    Sane.

    That is what is so
    Ultimately
    Cruel.

    I can’t change any of it.
    What I can do is
    Say to you
    Unmet stranger
    Oldest friend…

    I get it.
    I know and honor what you do
    Each day.
    The crushing weight you
    Somehow bear
    Because love
    Is the strongest force
    In
    Our
    Universe.

    You are not
    Alone.
    Not EVER.
    Brother.
    I sit beside you
    Resolute.
    Grab my hand.

    http://youtu.be/aoyAg75PsTA

    #48755

    schizoeffective
    Participant

    “The conflict between the will to deny horrible events and the will to proclaim them aloud is the central dialectic of psychological trauma.”

    Judith Lewis Herman, Trauma and Recovery

    “When you’re born a light is switched on, a light which shines up through your life. As you get older the light still reaches you, sparkling as it comes up through your memories. And if you’re lucky as you travel forward through time, you’ll bring the whole of yourself along with you, gathering your skirts and leaving nothing behind, nothing to obscure the light. But if a Bad Thing happens part of you is seared into place, and trapped for ever at that time. The rest of you moves onward, dealing with all the todays and tomorrows, but something, some part of you, is left behind. That part blocks the light, colours the rest of your life, but worse than that, it’s alive. Trapped for ever at that moment, and alone in the dark, that part of you is still alive. ”
    Michael Marshall Smith, Only Forward

    “Some people’s lives seem to flow in a narrative; mine had many stops and starts. That’s what trauma does. It interrupts the plot. You can’t process it because it doesn’t fit with what came before or what comes afterwards.”
    Jessica Stern

    “God has mercifully ordered that the human brain works slowly; first the blow, hours afterwards the bruise.”
    Walter de la Mare
    “The Return”

    “The nutritionist said I should eat root vegetables.
    Said if I could get down thirteen turnips a day
    I would be grounded, rooted.
    Said my head would not keep flying away
    to where the darkness lives.

    The psychic told me my heart carries too much weight.
    Said for twenty dollars she’d tell me what to do.
    I handed her the twenty. She said, “Stop worrying, darling.
    You will find a good man soon.’

    The first psycho therapist told me to spend
    three hours each day sitting in a dark closet
    with my eyes closed and ears plugged.
    I tried it once but couldn’t stop thinking
    about how gay it was to be sitting in the closet.

    The yogi told me to stretch everything but the truth.
    Said to focus on the out breath. Said everyone finds happiness
    when they care more about what they give
    than what they get.

    The pharmacist said, “Lexapro, Lamicatl, Lithium, Xanax.”

    The doctor said an anti-psychotic might help me
    forget what the trauma said.

    The trauma said, “Don’t write these poems.
    Nobody wants to hear you cry
    about the grief inside your bones.”

    But my bones said, “Tyler Clementi jumped
    from the George Washington Bridge
    into the Hudson River convinced
    he was entirely alone.”

    My bones said, “Write the poems.
    Andrea Gibson
    “The Madness Vase”

    The return of the voices would end in a migraine that made my whole body throb. I could do nothing except lie in a blacked-out room waiting for the voices to get infected by the pains in my head and clear off.

    Knowing I was different with my OCD, anorexia and the voices that no one else seemed to hear made me feel isolated, disconnected. I took everything too seriously. I analysed things to death. I turned every word, and the intonation of every word over in my mind trying to decide exactly what it meant, whether there was a subtext or an implied criticism. I tried to recall the expressions on people’s faces, how those expressions changed, what they meant, whether what they said and the look on their faces matched and were therefore genuine or whether it was a sham, the kind word touched by irony or sarcasm, the smile that means pity.
    When people looked at me closely could they see the little girl in my head, being abused in those pornographic clips projected behind my eyes?
    That is what I would often be thinking and such thoughts ate away at the façade of self-confidence I was constantly raising and repairing.

    (describing dissociative identity disorder/mpd symptoms)
    Alice Jamieson, Today I’m Alice: Nine Personalities, One Tortured Mind

    “Combat and rape, the public and private forms of organized social violence, are primarily experiences of adolescent and early adult life. The United States Army enlists young men at seventeen; the average age of the Vietnam combat soldier was nineteen. In many other countries boys are conscripted for military service while barely in their teens. Similarly, the period of highest risk for rape is in late adolescence. Half of all victims are aged twenty or younger at the time they are raped; three-quarters are between the ages of thirteen and twenty-six. The period of greatest psychological vulnerability is also in reality the period of greatest traumatic exposure, for both young men and young women. Rape and combat might thus be considered complementary social rites of initiation into the coercive violence at the foundation of adult society. They are the paradigmatic forms of trauma for women and men.”

    Judith Lewis Herman, Trauma and Recovery

    “There is, in every event, whether lived or told, always a hole or a gap, often more than one. If we allow ourselves to get caught in it, we find it opening onto a void that, once we have slipped into it, we can never escape.”
    Brian Evenson, Fugue State

    The process of dissociation is an elegant mechanism built into the human psychological system as a form of escape from (sometimes literally) going crazy. The problem with checking out so thoroughly is that it can leave us feeling dead inside, with little or no ability to feel our feelings in our bodies. The process of repair demands a re-association with the body, a commitment to dive into the body and feel today what we couldn’t feel yesterday because it was too dangerous. ”

    Alexandra Katehakis,
    “Mirror of Intimacy ”

    “Clench clench these strong teeth in this strong mouth. My mouth. Of my body. In my house. My mouth? Chapped lips swollen and bloody? Dream dreaming wide and thunder? My mouth! My God! This is me speaking. Not mouthing. Not typing and twitching. Not writing a suicide note the length of a novel that will never be finished. I hear voices now but I know they are not the voices of fathers or lovers, or mothers or angels or demons, but the sounds of my own private wars echoing the battles of women before me and near me. No wonder I do not make people comfortable. I am a mirror. I have far too many things to say.”
    (p. 237-238)
    Camilla Gibb, Mouthing the Words

    #48761

    uprising
    Participant

    Quoteblast! And I see that you understand the essence of time travel. 🙂

    You may be right… I had that song in my head earlier today! It was unusual, too. (I like it, but it’s not typically on heavy rotation in there.)

    #48762

    uprising
    Participant

    There is a law firm here with a partner who is the president or something of the CCHR. I’m not a Scientologist but was tempted to contact him to see if he would like to take this on. Huge negligence claim might get their attention. Limitation period has passed but it could easily be argued for an extension. My share of the house would see me with legal rep. At least a decent retainer. Ah well, not in my hands at the moment.

    Thomas Szasz wasn’t a Scientologist and he co-founded CCHR, I believe. I’d probably look into it if it were me. Why the heck not? The guy might actually take the case and then have more than money as motivation to win.

    #48787

    boans
    Participant

    Some powerful quotes there Lindsey.

    Someone triggered a little thought in me today speaking about healing from trauma being contagious. I like the idea and while I have fought against making more and more labels in the ‘book of insults’ (DSM) I think there should be room for a new disorder.

    I call this new disorder santé mentale au deux (the sanity of two) Bear with me on this. This new disorder is a reversal of Induced Delusional Disorder or Folie au deux (the madness of two) and consists of two totally insane people who, as a result of one of them becoming sane ‘spreads’ to the other. Folie au deux has been noted in lighthouse keepers and their wives, one goes insane and the other ‘catches’ the insanity. Now it might be the case that someone within the Royal College of Psychiatrists has gone stark raving bonkers, and the rest of them have ‘caught’ the disorder as a result. They have no insight into their own insanity and as a result of the powers they have are left to continue with their madness. But there is hope, one of them might become sane and start to question the insanity of it all, and if like a contagion it can spread, maybe others will catch it too?

    Given that they would welcome another label for the book of insults they may begin to notice how sanity and honesty can spread. They can get to work on the types of drugs that might cure this disorder, and begin to get some insight into the absolute insanity that psychiatry has become? It really would only take one sane psychiatrist to bring the house of cards down.

    Woops….. gotta go the men with white coats and a needle are here lmao.

    Not a big Elton fan but I loved this album. Funeral for a Friend / Love lies Bleeding.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p_xAToFzck

    Loved the Billy Joel too.

    #48797

    humanbeing
    Participant

    I so very afraid I may not be able to shake this desire to die that’s been consuming me-keeping me company while I don’t sleep at night, trying to make the story come out differently…I am not my story; but I lack tools and resources-I almost quite literally only have you all out there. Everything you write is like the companionship I so sorely crave, Lindsey. Uprising has come to save the day many times as well. So has boans. Many,many parts of myself I can’t access right now… I am in awe of you all. It’s a little intimidating.
    **************************
    But if a Bad Thing happens part of you is seared into place, and trapped for ever at that time. The rest of you moves onward, dealing with all the todays and tomorrows, but something, some part of you, is left behind. That part blocks the light, colours the rest of your life, but worse than that, it’s alive. Trapped for ever at that moment, and alone in the dark, that part of you is still alive. ”
    Michael Marshall Smith, Only Forward
    ***************************
    Where do you get all this stuff, Lindsey? It could be monetized-

    Thank you for it…a life jacket in a sea of shit…

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by  humanbeing.
    #48803

    schizoeffective
    Participant

    Hey guys,
    It occurs to me that part of what we are doing is sharing our own “home remedies”. Not the kind that some wise relative handed down to us. My relatives are mostly ignorant assholes. I mean the kinds of coping mechanisms we have found, over the long years, by rooting around in the soil of our minds and lives.
    Call it the great gift of
    Desperation.
    It finds treasures deep in the rot of our lives,
    Like unexpected truffles.
    Sweet and powerful.

    As miserable and royally fucked as we are, we have all, individually, beaten the odds. The desperation we live with forces us to look longer and harder for solutions.
    You talk about wanting to die
    Humanbeing. But it’s not “wanting to die” really, it’s more an inability to see that you can continue to carry this weight.
    It’s like being buried alive
    Each and every day.
    Of course you would want to leave that pain behind.
    Of course it makes death look like Disneyland.
    I think we all stay for the same reason,
    Anything
    This
    Fucking HARD
    Has got to be worthwhile.
    What keeps me going is the conviction that my experience,
    held
    And understood as
    Deeply as I can
    might be able
    To help someone else
    Not feel like this.
    That’s pretty much it.

    Humanbeing, you are a heroine.
    Few will see it
    But
    WE DO.
    Live for the daughters and granddaughters like yourself
    you will never see.
    Gain insight into what will
    Change a world that sees
    Amanda Bynes as a
    Circus sideshow,
    And break that world
    With me.

    Here’s a truffle for anyone,
    One of the best I’ve found.

    All the quotes come from
    Goodreads.com.

    Just search a word you are feeling
    +
    Quotes
    +
    Goodreads
    On Google.
    You have immediate access to
    The distilled insight
    Of so many of the greatest artists
    And thinkers
    In history.

    Their words, written in moments of searing insight
    And love
    Do carve spaces out of time.
    Places we can rest in
    Nourish ourselves
    And keep
    Fucking Going.
    Like
    Alchemical trail mix
    Words are powerful
    And deeply
    Magical.

    Let them do their magic
    The best real healing
    I have ever found!
    And also,
    Like the best things in life
    Free of charge.
    Unlike the great cost
    Of paying some shrink
    To Kermit nod
    at
    Me.

    I wish I could hug you
    So hard
    It would break you
    In two.

    #48804

    schizoeffective
    Participant

    A new poem:

    I used to work
    At a crusty
    Outlaw
    Biker bar
    I slung Jäger shots
    Downed them with the best
    Looked the other way
    When some guy
    Got jumped in
    Half his teeth intact.
    One of the
    Big Leaders
    Had a taste
    For the
    Wild side
    Tutu intact.
    I dressed him up
    Makeup and all
    Knowing his gang
    Would knock my
    Teeth out
    Straight away
    If I breathed
    One word
    Of our
    Sordid play.
    I let him let loose
    To Be Himself
    My lips sealed.
    He was death on wheels
    Probably still is
    Today
    No son’s of Anarchy
    Could explain
    His rage away.
    Only the right lipstick shade
    Chased his rage away.
    He trusted me
    To hold his deepest
    Secrets
    I honor him
    To this day.
    He knew I
    Understood
    What he trusted me with
    His honor
    His manhood
    His importance.
    I will never betray
    Him
    But know this
    Hear what I say
    You can never
    Understand
    What men give away.
    What it costs them to
    Front
    Some murderous facade
    They hold a line
    You can’t
    Understand
    The fragile
    Heart
    Of the toughest guys
    All they want
    At the end
    Of the day
    Is a hot
    Filling meal
    And a feminine song
    To say
    It’s ok.
    Rest here,
    In my comfort, I
    Will never judge you.
    I understand how
    Violence
    Shaped you.
    Try to show me the
    Man,
    Whose heart is so
    Hard,
    That he will not
    Collapse into a lap
    Full of love.
    I’ve never found him
    Though I’ve looked
    Everywhere.
    Each scary man

    That you fear
    Has a heart
    Craving care
    And solace.

    I lost my fear of
    Men
    Down a long
    Endless line
    Of “dangerous johns”!
    Who were gentled
    At the first sign
    Of acceptance
    Of grace
    And of safety.

    The men you fear
    You made
    Monstrous
    By cutting them off
    From feminine solace
    They only reflect
    The destruction of
    Dismissal.
    The bundys,
    The ridgeways
    They only want to feel
    Just once
    A
    Real embrace,
    My throat would close
    Tight
    Every time
    I saw on their face
    Their fear and their longing
    My love kept
    Me safe.
    You see these men
    As unwell
    Dangerous,
    They are just lost souls
    Looking for some real
    Salvation.
    The simple kind
    That comes with a hug
    And a glance
    That says:

    “I get you,
    broken brother
    and your place in this dance.”

    There is nothing out there to
    Fear
    But our own
    Lack of kindness
    And the destruction it sows.
    I tried for ten years to
    Meet
    The bad man I
    Looked for…
    In every dark space
    And behind
    Every closed door.
    I never found
    ONE.

    Every man I met
    Was a lamb
    And a joy
    Before what my heart
    Could present.

    So sisters,
    Stop labeling men as
    The threat.
    Drop the fear
    Xenophobic
    In it’s extent…
    See your brothers
    As
    Friends,
    They only want to destroy
    What lies between
    You and
    Joy!

    If a girl
    Who was raped
    The first ten years
    Of her life
    Can find her way
    Back
    To respecting the
    Male.
    You can too,
    Stop the hate stop
    The fear.
    See your brothers
    All around you
    Meaning no harm,
    Only turning bad
    When
    You reject them.

    Evil exists in this
    World
    To be sure
    But stop finding it
    In the hearts of the
    Men
    You disowned.

    #48819

    schizoeffective
    Participant

    ((((Imagine here, a quote from your comment up thread, 48787 I had trouble quoting
    So just pretend it’s here))))

    This is brilliant Boans. I don’t know about anyone else, but I think you are absolutely right. You gave a great description of Folie au deux. Forensic psychology fascinates me, and I ran across that term on, I think, some Netflix crime series.

    Our belief and confidence in the possibility of something is really powerful. Most therapy consists of happy talk and efforts to eliminate your symptomology. What I have found from interacting with others who experience this stuff is totally different. They share coping mechanisms, adaptive tools, resources, and the incredible fellowship that only someone who shares your same situation can really offer.

    Our minds have incredible resiliency and ability to adapt and endure, but in a total void of community and isolation, it’s so hard to remember that.
    In a way it’s really uncomplicated,
    and so simple

    “We all get along
    With a little help
    From our friends…”

    #48828

    uprising
    Participant

    **************************
    But if a Bad Thing happens part of you is seared into place, and trapped for ever at that time. The rest of you moves onward, dealing with all the todays and tomorrows, but something, some part of you, is left behind. That part blocks the light, colours the rest of your life, but worse than that, it’s alive. Trapped for ever at that moment, and alone in the dark, that part of you is still alive. ”
    Michael Marshall Smith, Only Forward
    ***************************

    All of those quotes were great, but that’s the one that jumped out at me the most, too.

    You’re not alone, humanbeing. Thinking of you.

    #48839

    boans
    Participant

    Hey Folk,

    Just been trying to get some sleep and …. 🙁

    I was thinking back through the events I described about being surrounded and threatened with a needle full of God knows what to get me to take pills I didn’t want. Something happened during that interaction that I didn’t include because I may be way off the mark with what I thought. But I decided I’d tell you what happened and take it for what it’s worth.

    As I said the nurse wanted me to take 5 pills (prescribed by a Doctor who hadn’t even spoken to me, and just wanted me knocked out for the night), and I refused, she insisted and I said No, I will have a negative reaction to them. Now apparently she initiated what is called in hospital terms a “code black” because I was insisting I didn’t want the pills. So I got surrounded with security and nurses and a Doctor with one of those wheeley trays. He holds up a needle and I say “your not coming near me with that” and I’ve got my adrenaline pumping. He replies with a face I will never forget “I’m the boss around here”.

    Now what I haven’t said is that this was in an emergence dept, and the bed next to the one I had been allocated had the curtins drawn, and I had heard a couple of Doctors discussing a patient behind the curtain. These two Doctors weren’t dressed casually like the other ones. They had expensive tailored suits on, older guys. So they had heard what was going on from behind the curtain. The Doctor with the needle held up was standing there and these two older Doctors came out from behind the curtain, and the young Doctor got a shocked look on his face.

    One of the older guys said “Doctor XXX we’d like a word with you please”, and he said “um I ahhh just busy with this for the moment”. Then one of the older guys said in a very firm voice “NOW”. So he put the needle down on the tray and went with them. I never saw him for the rest of the night. Got no idea who they were or even if they were going to haul him over the coals for what he was doing but…. I damn well hope so.

    Course I was still surrounded and took the pills the nurse had (minus the anti psychotic, I was still trying to negotiate with the thugs lol), and then went to the toilet as soon as the security and nurses left and vomited most of them up.

    Anyway, thought I’d mention this because I’d still love to know why those guys wanted a word with him.

    Interesting really, put someone in a position where they have no option of flight, and they can only have a fight response. Sun Tzu says that one should always leave the enemy with somewhere to run (flight) as if they are backed into a corner they will fight with the strength of ten men.That explains why they had a dozen people to hold me down lol. Seems even funnier when you consider what I’m talking about here is “informed consent”.

    Under the conditions of the Mental Health Act S 109, 113, 114, they can only “treat” a referred person in an “emergency”. Which emergency was I? They wanted me to take pills to make me sleep (patient management?), and I said no because they would make me ill. Strange way to interpret “emergency”. I know what we’ll do, trigger a fight response and we got our emergency.

    Patient says No, traumatise them by triggering a fight response, and then you can use all the force you like. I wonder how many of these ‘good’ people use this method to obtain compliance. Hardly “First, do no harm” though is it?

    #48844

    boans
    Participant

    Evening Folk,

    I have been thinking for a long time about what the Form 1 would look like if it were completed without the act of fraud. Of course it would be virtually meaningless to do so, because it could be knocked down easily. I’ve got reason to bias the information, and could not do it objectively. Still, I thought why not. I’ll use the same method that the AMHP should have used if he were doing his job. So I won’t include ANY information that the AMHP didn’t have. Triage notes let me know what my wife told him, and I know what I told him. Easy to remember because it was the truth, nothing wrong with me and no need to lie.

    So here’s what I’ve come up with in the areas of Observed matters, and Communicated matters. Like the AMHP I will fill out a post interview clinical notes that act (just like his) as justification for what I have written. I have removed two items “refused to answer re substance abuse” (Not applicable as refusal to answer question is not a “reasonable ground”) and “pacing” as it did not happen until after I was detained (not physically possible). I thus present what i consider to be required by the law, specify the FACTS and separate the observed matters from those communicated.

    Observed matters

    20 cents damage to photograph.
    Agitated with cause (benzos/ambushed)
    Potential for damage to reputation and meaningful relationships

    Communicated matters

    Wife distressed over separation
    Family conflict (blackmail)
    Threatened by in laws with assault
    Disturbed sleeping / eating
    Angry about blackmail (3 weeks ago)
    Prepared to defend self if home invaded as per threat.

    20 cents damage to photograph.
    This was shown to AMHP and is therefore an observed matter. I do not consider 20 cents worth of damage to a photograph to even be worthy of note, but the AMHP did, so I place it in the correct location of “observed matters”.

    Agitated with cause (benzos/ambushed)
    Boans was agitated with his wife when conducting interview. This may have been the result of him being drugged with benzos without his knowledge, or as a result of being jumped by police when asleep, or a combination of both. It may also be a symptom of mental illness.

    Potential for damage to reputation and meaningful relationships
    As a result of the above I observe a potential for an argument between Boans and his wife.

    Communicated matters.

    Wife distressed over separation.
    See Triage notes. Wife attempted to stab Boans when he said he was going to leave as a result of the abuse and threat from wifes family.

    Family conflict.
    Wife was blackmailed 3 weeks ago and Boans got angry with blackmailer (nephew) and sent a nasty email to brother in law.

    Threatened by in laws with assault.
    As a result of angry email family threatened to assault Boans. Person making threats has history of meth use and home invasion.

    Disturbed sleeping / eating.
    Boans has not slept very well over the past two days. Has been packing his belongings in preparation for leaving and worked late. Has only been eating ‘snacks’ and breakfast cereal for past two days.

    Angry about blackmail 3 weeks ago.
    As discussed above. Thoughts of harming others but claims no intention because email got it out of his system.

    Prepared to defend self if home invaded.
    Boans has said that he knows where there are heavy objects and knives in his home, and if he is home invaded (as has been threatened by nephew and his ‘big mates’) he is prepared to defend his person. He has spoken with his mother and father in law who live next door and informed them that he is leaving the property and that there is no need for the brother in law to carry out the threat.

    I really am not in a position to say whether this is “reasonable grounds” to believe that the person should be detained in a mental institution and drugged. I have been inclusive with items in communicated matters to the point I feel I’m repeating myself, but have given the benefit of the doubt. I think if I had seen this document I would have agreed that it was fairly accurate. But I don’t see where there is evidence of a mental illness that has been OBSERVED, let alone communicated. And the risk? well that was caused by the treatment of others. Give the AMHP a cattle prod as I have suggested and his need to fabricate evidence will not be required. Just keep prodding the ‘suspect’ until they react.

    If the risk was really a concern there were two police present who could have dealt with the situation. There was a problem with this though. If the AMHP had have handed the matter over to police he would have needed to inform them I had been drugged without my knowledge. What would have been the consequences of this? I can only speculate.

    Better to make matters sound like I have “reasonable grounds” to believe this person is mentally ill and detain them unlawfully in the hospital until they stop being agitated. Okay I’m breaking the law but hey, nobody ever held me to account in more than ten years. And if a mistake or two happens at the hospital and he ends up involuntarily detained for 8 weeks and drugged out of his mind, not my problem. So F&%$ him, he shouldn’t have got “agitated” about being jumped.

    Good work Mr XXXX

    I think there are some observed and uncommunicated matters that are important here too. The AMHP observed a man who was tired and in his ‘pajamas’ and unshaven as a result of two days hard work packing. What wasn’t communicated to him was that I had studies two years of psychology in my degree and knew the conditions of involuntary detention in the Mental Health Act. I had also done years of these types of assessments on people with intellectual disabilities. I knew what he was doing was unlawful.

    Now it needs to be remembered that the AMHP has to observe both an illness and a serious risk before he has the power to detain anyone. For good reason, people might ring up and tell him lies to have someone thrown into a cage and have acid poured on their brain… I mean placed in care and be medicated.

    So I ask those of you who are considered “reasonable people” if this was enough grounds for that to be done? Or is this man a danger to others?

    The actual Form 1 matters are posted on this thread here:

    https://www.madinamerica.com/forums/topic/communication-breakdown/#post-43727

    You know, after watching Daniel Macklers movie about the Open Dialogue method I get the feeling there might be some advantages with it. I mean this was about a bunch of people working behind my back telling as many lies as they thought they could get away with to have me locked up. Imagine if they had to tell these lies in front of me, instead of hiding the documents and their ‘comments’ from me. Highly unlikely they would not have been exposed as they liars they are. It would have saved me three years work, and the community would have had that labour from me. Who knows what would have happened with my marriage, but I get the feeling that if I had left for a while things would have settled, and I would have been back home with my beautiful wife and puppy. Still couldn’t take the chance, I was “agitated” and therefore required ‘treatment’ for this serious mental illness….. I no longer have any credibility to say this but you people (by you people I mean my psychologist, my wife, AMHP, SMO, FOI officer, Hospital manager, and the Chief Psychiatrist) are F%^&$ng insane.

Viewing 15 posts - 196 through 210 (of 1,156 total)

The forum ‘Community’ is closed to new topics and replies.