Wednesday, February 24, 2021

There already is a viable alternative?

Home Forums Rethinking Psychiatry There already is a viable alternative?

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    To my understanding there exists the viable/comprehensive alternatives (& always have done, we did OK with Shamanism for some 70,000 years). More recently, Jung, Soteria, Diabasis, Open Dialogue, Windhorse, i-ward, CooperRiis, etc (many others) – Lots of people have pioneered more humane alternatives. i would think an integral bio/psycho/social/spiritual view could be adopted that took into account each case on an individual basis, & that offered the most appropriate care/support. i don’t think this would be difficult, but it does require social/political will – it requires people being interested in it all.

    Some places it has been laid out

    Jung – Symbols of Transformation (Collected works 5).
    Anton T Boisen – The Exploration of the Inner World.
    John Weir Perry – The far side of madness & trials of the visionary mind.
    John Watkins – Unshrinking Psychosis.

    Largely all ignored/denied, & if you press the issue you get attacked/slandered – How do you get through to people the truth that there exists viable & effective alternatives? i have no idea?

    “Although out reach and crisis services are needed, without a 24/7 front end system sanctuary like Soteria, CooperRiis, Diabasis House, the Open Dialogue or the sanctuary – folks don’t have a chance to avoid having their potentially transformative psychosis being aborted with medications and a Schizophrenic diagnosis being laid on them for the rest of their lives. Loren Mosher on alternative approaches to psychosis, was agreed that all the sanctuaries like Laing’s Kingsley Hall, John Weir Perry’s Diabasis House, Soteria, Burch House, Windhorse, the Agnews Project. And the med free, no restraints, no diagnosis, open door Ward sanctuary; plus the Euorpean and Scandanavian Open Dialogue places- well they ALL basically do the same thing. They provide the necessary and sufficient conditions for a person to go through a psychotic process and come out the other side-’Weller than well’- as Karl Menninger famously said. By being held in the healing crucible of a caring, open hearted setting, the psyche naturally sets it’s own course and heals from the early wounds that made a dramatic psychosis renewal necessary in the first place. If instead, a person is labelled as having a diseased brain and medicated into emotional numbness and submission, then the energy and power and symbolic expression of the purposive psychosis simply falls back into the unconscious. Then whenever a loss or trauma happens, the person de-compensates into an ever more amorphous emotional and fragmented daze of so-called chronic psychosis where renewal and healing is far more difficult.”

    The life conclusion of the greatest psychiatrist/psychologist that has ever lived & probably the greatest humanitarian of the last Century –

    “I have now, after long practical experience, come to hold the view that the psychogenic causation of the disease is more probable than the toxic [physico-chemical] causation. There are a number of mild and ephemeral but manifestly schizophrenic illnesses – quite apart from the even more common latent psychoses – which begin purely psychogenically, run an equally psychological course (aside from certain presumably toxic nuances) and can be completely cured by a purely psychotherapeutic procedure. I have seen this even in severe cases”.

    – Carl Jung


    Holistic, Integral/Integrated View of Mental Health

    Body, Mind, Spirit & Environment.

    1) Physiological, Biologic, Brain Developmental, Epigenetic, Brain Plasticity. Would include drug use/medications, diet & other impactors on physiology/biology. (biomedical Models)

    2) Psychological, Emotional, & the bodies energetic systems. (Psychological Models)

    3) Social, Environmental, Inter-Personal/Relational, Familial, Life Experiences. Stress/Trauma – ‘What has happened to you?’ (Social Models)

    4) Spiritual/Trans-Personal, Past life/Karmic. Life Lessons, Soul Plan. Spirit Attachment. (Spiritual/Transpersonal Models)

    All areas are interrelated – Bio/Psycho/Social/Spirit Model. Covering the 4 main areas of Life.
    Differential Frameworks – multi-factored, comprehensive, person centred & individualised approach to understanding of non-ordinary experiences/mental health experiences/mental & emotional confusion & distress/psychic disturbance.

    Overlaps exist within each field.

    Life – Essence & Being – Beyond the Mind/Thought/Thinking/Language/Ideas/Concepts/Theories.


    Brain Developmental.
    Brain Structural.
    Neurological Pathways/Patterning.
    Early brain development 0-3/5 years.
    Epigenetic & genetic mutation at conception.
    Brain Plasticity.
    Deep Brain States.
    Limbic System.
    Temporal Lobes.
    Brain Shift.
    Pathogens in utero.
    Pre/perinatal experiences/conditions.
    Nutritional issues.
    Stress & trauma.
    Organic Processes.
    Drug/Alcohol use/Medications/Psychiatric Drugs.
    Other Diseases Pathogens.
    Biomedical & Alternative/Holistic.
    Brain Circuits.
    Materialism VS Energetic Living Systems.
    Biomorphic Resonance.
    CNS (Central Nervous System) & Mind/Brain/Body Integration.


    Depth Psychology
    Pre, Personal, Collective, & Universal Unconscious.
    Realms of the Psyche.
    Personality Types.
    Supra Conscious.
    Psychological Formulation.
    Psychological & Emotional States.
    States of Being.
    Non-Ordinary States.
    Altered States.
    Normal range.
    Axis 1 & 2 Disorders.
    Existential Crisis.
    Healing & resolution.


    Supra Conscious.
    Holographic Mind/Universe.
    Beyond Mind/Zen no Mind.
    Past Life.
    Inter Life Areas (Soul Group/Partner(s), Guide(s), council of Elders).
    Life Lessons.
    Soul Plan/Path.
    Free Will & Choices.
    Spirit Possession.
    Psychic Gifts/Phenomena.
    Shamanic Opening/Crisis.
    Spiritual Emergence/Emergency/Crisis.
    Psychic Opening.
    Ego Death/Loss.
    Universal/Fundamental Consciousness.
    Heart Brain Consciousness.
    Energy Bodies.
    Higher Self.
    Self Actualisation, Realisation, Individualisation.
    NDE & OBE Experiences.
    Lucid dreaming.
    States of Suspension. Transformations of Consciousness. Presence Awareness.
    Energy & Layered Frequency Bands.
    Parallel Processing.
    Total Abstraction.
    Memory Fields & Morphic Resonance.
    Vibrational Integrity.
    Zero Point Fields & Other Field Interactions.
    Stabilisation & Control Issues. Combined Literal & Symbolic/Objective & Subjective States.
    Other World Journeys.
    Phases of Integration.
    Hyper/Super Sensitivity.
    Continuity Establishment. Archetypal/Individuation Issues. Entanglement.
    Mass Mind.
    Many Worlds.
    Simultaneous & Matrix Awareness. Future Orientations.
    Webs of Interconnectedness
    Broader Range of Frequencies. Resonance Patterns
    Internal Flow States.
    Super Fluidity/Fluid Dynamics. Wave Patterns & Breaking Containment Thresholds. Embodiment Issues


    Social Conditioning.
    Familial & Wider Social Dynamics.
    Human Being/Existential.
    Stress & Trauma.
    Media/Mass Media.
    Cultural Beliefs/Traditions.
    Natural World.
    Introjection & Projection.
    What has happened to you?
    Global Issues.


    Jung & Schizophrenia

    Eighty-odd years ago, Jung voiced his deep concern that the powerful, often vivid, chaotic and disturbing psychology of schizophrenia, which he had so painstakingly chartered and honoured throughout the many years he treated and healed schizophrenia sufferers, had not been given the respect and serious attention it deserved. He likewise lamented the appalling lack of knowledge of the psychology of schizophrenia among those of his own profession, a situation which has changed precious little today.

    Sadly, however, Jung’s vast body of invaluable work has fallen for the most on hostile ground and deaf ears, ironically in psychiatric circles, largely because Jung’s respect for ‘the reality of the psyche’ and its religious, mythic and spiritual needs, dimensions and instincts poses a threat to the materialist bias that underscores drug-based, or biologic psychiatry, but also because his personally demanding and soul-centred approach to psychiatry is radically at odds with the detached ‘illusion of expertise’ on which biologic psychiatry’s mask of authority, presumed sanity, and stagnant wasteland of ‘brain chemistry’ dogma are shakily grounded.

    In place of dry textbook knowledge learned by rote, Jung gives precedence to living primary experience, hence his assertion that we understand nothing psychologically unless we’ve experienced it. In this sense, the people who know most about schizophrenia are the sufferers themselves, followed closely by those who have ‘been there’ and have pulled themselves out of a psychosis and so ‘know the road’. Such folk, as invaluable ‘wounded healers’, can therefore often guide others groping along similar roads, or pull people out of the quagmires and tricky labyrinths of psychosis.

    Equal Therapeutic Dialogue

    In place of the practitioner’s mask of fatherly authority, Jung puts the mutual vulnerability, openness, imaginal richness, honesty and trust of the therapeutic dialogue, in which patient and therapist confront one another on equal terms and through which both stand to learn and grow. In place of forced treatment, hasty consultations and toxic psychiatric drugs, Jung puts a trust in nature, unconscious wisdom and the healing which, residing in the ‘patient patient’, is catalysed and midwifed by the caring therapist. No wonder he poses a threat to those who esteem power, professional detachment, diplomas, diagnostic manuals and drug company profits over the empowerment, equality, freedom, healing and dignity of the patient.

    Needless to say, there are other closely related and equally grave moral issues at stake here. For instance, imagine, if you will, that a reputable medical practitioner had come forward with evidence of a safe, natural cure for cancer, but that the medical establishment had ignored the evidence and, worse still, had kept the findings from cancer sufferers for fear of losing income and power through their monopoly over the provision of existing anti-cancer ‘treatments’, which do not heal. By the same token, Jung – and others who have followed in his wake – cured his schizophrenic patients with psychotherapy alone. The tragedy of the ‘mental health crisis’ is not only, then, that so many already fragile and wounded people have been damaged and driven to suicide; what is equally tragic is that all along, there have existed natural, re-empowering, healing alternatives to psychiatric drugs; alternatives which biologic psychiatry, the Government, Schizophrenia Fellowships and drug companies have in a morally disgraceful way ignored, or deliberately kept from sufferers and the public.”


    Related –

    i’m not plugging these practitioners – just showing examples of the alternatives.


    “Those people who, through their expression of pain or confusion, fall into the arms of the ‘helping professions’, perhaps becoming psychiatrically diagnosed as psychotic or neurotic or ‘inadequate personalities’, have in my experience almost all arrived at their predicament through an entirely comprehensible, rational and (of course with hindsight) predictable process.

    If you run over a pea with a steam roller you don’t blame the pea for what happens to it, nor, sensibly, do you treat its injuries as some kind of shortcoming inherent in its internal structure, whether inherited or acquired.

    Similarly, if you place the (literally) unimaginably sensitive organisms which human babies are in the kind of social and environmental machinery which we seem bent on ‘perfecting’, it can be no real surprise that so many of them end up, as adults, as lost, bemused, miserable and crazy as they do.

    The only surprise, perhaps, is that so many pass as ‘normal’,”

    David Smail
    Taking Care


    Acknowledging The Survivor: Exclusion, Trivialisation and Denial

    Exclusion, Trivialisation and Denial; Society’s refusal to Acknowledge, Honour and Integrate the trauma and human rights violations experienced by the psychiatric survivor.

    By Grainne Humphrys.

    In looking at exclusion I would like to use the systemic lens. That which is excluded creates imbalance and so, I believe, as a society we become imbalanced at a collective level when we refuse to acknowledge difficult and painful truths within our society. Nowhere is this felt more keenly than by the psychiatric survivor. As a so-called `civilised’ society we collude in our collective trivialisation of both the violation of human rights of this marginalised minority group and the trauma, pain and silencing of this group. This I believe is our last great civil rights movement.

    The `treatment’ of distressed individuals with labelling and drugging is simply not acknowledged publicly by society at large, and if it is, it is trivialised and skimmed over. It is given lip-service but it is, by no means, acknowledged at a profound level. In order for survivors to deeply heal they need deep acknowledgement. This has not yet occurred publicly by the mental health professionals (bar a few) or the general public (look, for example, at the recent acknowledgement of abuse survivors in the Ryan Report, and the watershed and paradigm shift that created. This was painful but healing).

    The book ‘Deprived of Our Humanity’ – The Case Against Neuroleptic Drugs, by Lars Martensson; should be compulsory reading for all people going into the psychiatric profession as doctors and nurses – though reading it may raise many questions around whether they want to continue working in that system. What is happening on a daily basis in many hospitals is barbaric and a crime against our humanity and it is simply not acknowledged. Why is this? Why does it feel so threatening for people to acknowledge this truth? By not acknowledging it, we are adding fuel to an unimaginable well of pain and a raging fire of frustration and anger. Perhaps we are experiencing collective guilt at witnessing and knowing about such violations (however much we push this knowledge to the back of our minds, it taps into our own fear about survival). Through our turning a blind eye though, we render the psychiatric survivor invisible. Perhaps it just doesn’t feel safe to acknowledge their experience.

    I would like to coin a new phrase; `lip-service-providers’. We are all lip-service-providers to the psychiatric survivor. I believe if the deep pain of survivors is truly acknowledged the house of cards will fall, the domino effect will be set in motion. It is not a pain many of us can identify with (though it does tap into our own pain of being human). Neither should it become a pain competition. The pain of the psychiatric survivor is, however, a very particular kind of pain; it is the pain of being silenced over and over again. It is the pain of being erased, tortured, silenced and rendered powerless. It is unimaginable for most of us, a violation of our basic human rights we take for granted. It is just not within our realm of experience and this too has to be acknowledged. In attempting to compare our pain we deny theirs and add fuel to a justified anger, we simply cannot compare or understand or fathom it, because it is not within our range of experience. It is another subtle way of denying their experience.

    We want the psychiatric survivor’s raw pain to be packaged into a more easily digestible form, a socially acceptable and appropriate' way. It follows that we don't allow the sheer depth and range of their experience. It is not because the survivor doesn't have a voice, they do, but they are just not allowed to really use it in whatever way they so choose or wish to, or we will reject it. In effect, we cannot hold or contain their pain as a society or as a group. We collectively repress their experience due to our difficulty in facing and acknowledging this truth about our capacity for man's inhumanity to man. We re-package their experience and present it in asafe’ and `politically correct’ form, brushing over it and side-stepping past it. We are repelled by their anger, it upsets our civilised sensibilities. It infringes on our safe bubbles of imagined democracy that we have created.

    At a deeper level it is our failure to acknowledge the original trauma before people experiencing distress and overwhelm enter the psychiatric services that hurts vulnerable people the most though. We hurt them three times; by ignoring the original trauma and then by labelling and drugging (in effect, denying) the trauma. We then hurt them again by not allowing them to express their anger at this violation of both their human rights and their right to their trauma. We label the layers and I believe it is that is what we feel most guilt around because we collude with psychiatry. We all know collectively deep down and subconsciously that there is no such thing as chemical imbalance' but trauma is taboo in our culture. This really taps into our victim/ perpetrator energy, our inherent fragility as humans, our fear of the unknown, our primal instincts. Our hiding behind a veneer ofrespectability’ separates us from those experiencing crisis and overwhelm. We don’t want to look trauma in the eye. But acknowledging this trauma truth holds enormous power and depth of healing if we can do it. We do an enormous disservice to the psychiatric survivor in not revering and honouring their experience.

    We need to search deep inside ourselves and our hearts as to why we feel so threatened by the psychiatric survivor’s pain. This is not an easy emotional task, it requires deep and difficult work. Survivor’s anger can be as much about not having their pain and experience acknowledged by us, as about the abuse of their human rights within the psychiatric system. This, to my mind, is the crux of why change and deep healing cannot occur because;

    (1) We cannot fathom their pain
    (2) We feel threatened in some way by this pain
    (3) We deny it and put it into shadow

    The facts are there, the recovery stories are there but we barely give the facts lip-service. We need to wake up to these facts. We get distracted by frameworks and models and politics and language and all the trappings of our minds. We have one set of rules for us and another for the psychiatric survivor. We skirt around the issues that really count (like acknowledging feelings). I believe this is because we are afraid of that depth of emotion. Indeed as a culture we trivialise our emotions and are afraid of them. We are governed by logic and rationale which moves us away from our hearts and the language of our souls.

    Psychiatric survivors are not acknowledged. In fact, my feeling is that they are put into collective shadow and their pain is trivialised and even patronised. In order for us all to integrate as a society, we need to open our hearts and create a space for all those who have been excluded, put aside our own pain, to acknowledge their pain (that we cannot even begin to imagine because, quite simply, our human rights have never been violated to such an extent. This is a fact we need to acknowledge. This is our work, not the survivor’s). I believe our difficulty in acknowledging the survivor stems from our fear of acknowledging our collective perpetrator energy. The survivor is a precious reminder of our ability to deny our perpetrator and how blocking this aspect off, we prevent integration and deep healing. The survivor has much to teach us, their lessons are gifts, but like all difficult lessons, many of us turn away and resist the challenge for true growth.

    Labelling, forced drugging, coercion, incarceration is a barbaric violation of what we hold most dear, our human rights, our right to be human. The fact that it is then called `care’ is a denial of what it really is. I stand in awe of people who survive this system. The way it is then glossed over and trivialised by people further adds to that denial. This actually fuels and reinforces anger (is it any wonder?) It excludes the survivor and their experience. It is a culture of covert abuse.

    We should not pretend that we can understand or fathom this pain, be it lost years, chemical damage or unimaginable trauma, just as we cannot understand what it is to be in a concentration camp or to be a victim of war. We need to allow survivors their pain, we need to acknowledge it and bow down to honour it. This movement (of the soul) towards acknowledging a difficult and painful truth will ultimately heal us at a societal level and allow psychiatric survivors the journey home to their rightful place within society.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Cpuusage.

    I have seen you post in other forums. We have discussed these issues in emails with each other. I have very much similar views, but people (especially the care givers) don’t care about these aspects, and when you or I tell them this stuff, they just consider it a sign of the illness and start discussing a med adjustment.

    Additional, far to often religion comes to play in some part in these discussions. The typical psychiatrist and even psychotherapist is not a theologian or a mystic or anywhere near the depth that one would have to be to actually help a person that is going through psychosis or a “spiritual emergence”.

    I am afraid treatments like this are just not going to catch on. There is a huge resistance in psychiatry against any sort of non-materialist approach to schizophrenia and most psychologists in America are frankly scared of schizophrenics and have no willingness to Work as Jung or Mosher or Laing did with them. The vast majority of psychologists in America are more interested and equipped to deal with an anxious housewife that has phobias about spiders, or couples that have “marriage issues” or “undisciplined children” than a floridly psychotic schizophrenic. They are not trained to deal with it and they don’t want to. Money is found in 45 minutes sessions once or twice a week with collection of neurotics that frequent the practice.

    Schizophrenics are treated the way they are (pumped full of drugs and dropped onto the social welfare system) because frankly they do not want to deal with shamans or mystics. Western civilization is built upon the foundation of materialism its birthing in the Renaissance was all about disrobing the spirtitual and religous, eschewing mysticism and embracince logic and reason, it is the going religion. Our economy is based on it as well, consumerism and markets are purely set upon materialist ideas .

    It far more profitable to produce widgets ( pills at manufacturing cost) and then charge astronomical rates for them under the pretense of “never ending research into widgets” and charge the government, then it is to produce “prophets” or resolved psychotics. There is no profit motive in RESOLVING PSYCHOSIS, and in fact a schizophrenic that actually resolves his or her psychosis is more of a threat to “society” then a drug addled, social welfare client, that stays huddled in isolation or in a group home, or in his HOA apartment chatting online about “what should happen”.

    Most apocalyptic scripture found in the east and west has talked about this time we are living through.

    Not enough people care, they are distracted with technology and toys and bills and debts and children and celebrity culture and political culture and war and the price of fucking “GAS” to really deal with the epidemic which is consuming the west and creating “A BRAVE NEW WORLD” of pill$ for every complaint.

    The west is more interested in SORCERY and laboratory chemicals, producing pills and potions to put you into “good” “Pliable” “spirits” than it ever has been in Shamanism.

    Its cool mom’s comming back a round again … sit tight its gonna be a wild ride.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by mister_lister.

    Hi. How are you? Hope all well. Wondered where you had been?

    Good to have a reply to this thread.

    i suppose the way that i see it, is it is the way that it is – Nothing is going to really change that.

    ‘We’ can argue that the sky is Green – But it’s still Blue.


    “Physics, biology, chemistry or any other science—despite their success in analysing the material world—simply cannot explain the purpose and origin of existence. They cannot account for the essence within each and everyone of us that makes us conscious individuals with a deep sense of self and of subjective experience. Our spark of being—the one that makes us creators, thinkers and observers with such a rich and multifaceted inner world—is undeniably beyond the bounds of mainstream science…”


    I am glad to see you here too, its about time, everything has its place and time. You know who I am voting for, its not the sorcerers.


    I know you are not saying that science is bad, it started out really grand, the act of inquiry and method used is probably one of the best we have seen. Science (psychics especially) has disrobed many delusions and superstitions, but other branches of science (especially main stream psychiatry if you can even call it science) lost perspective and deluded itself with the idea that the psyche is reducible to mechanics and biological processes. Granted many the physical brain and its processes are important for life, but with that perspective they will never truly understand the psyche or for that matter human beings and beyond.

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