Sunday, April 11, 2021

Writing Off The Antipsychiatry Movement

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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 45 total)
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  • #76445
    Frank Blankenship
    Participant

    You have to be smart if you want to prevent yourself from becoming the victim of forced treatment. Do not refuse treatment (because otherwise this is used as an agrument to use force).

    Actually if you’ve seen those little signs hanging from walls in outpatient and inpatient facilities on patients rights they list right to treatment, not right to refuse treatment, because the right to refuse treatment is not a right that a person has, not if that person has been targeted by psychiatry. “Expertise” here assumes almost judicial powers.

    Sorry Frank, I don’t agree and I don’t consider your position credible. What you are speaking is one of the main illusions which keeps people subjugated. In fact, it is why we need what D and G call schizo lines of flight.

    People subjugated by freedom and liberation. Yes, we must disagree on this somehow.

    I would say that psychotherapy is so deceptive and pernicious, that you can’t be passive. Either you are against it, or you are a collaborator. Hence an effective anti-psychiatry movement has to also be anti-psychotherapy. And this is where I see there as being a problem with MindFreedom. You notice I don’t post about anti-psychiatry and medication issues, because for me there is nothing there worth talking about, as it has to be eradicated.

    This strikes me as peculiar. I don’t see why anybody can’t be indifferent to the psychotherapy business.

    BTW, I’m not promoting psychotherapy, and whatever a “collaborator” is in this instance I leave to the imagination, however when it comes to psychiatry proper, people are getting jobs as collaborators. For real. That’s something I’m not supporting either. My version of “peer support” rules out collaboration with the enemy.

    #76455
    Nomadic
    Participant

    Foucault explained that subjugation is already contained in ideas like freedom and liberation. Freedom and liberation are what keep people driving to work each morning, doing nonsense, but using up precious fossil fuels. Believing that they can have freedom and liberation is what makes people believe that there is something wrong with them if they don’t already have it. Again, this is an adaptation of original sin.

    I am not indifferent to anything about forced psychiatry, medication, and electro-shock. I want these things to be eradicated by any means necessary. And I will support the strongest possible of penalties too, things which go way beyond our enforcement of ordinary criminal justice, like revolutionary justice or International Crimes Against Humanity with a death penalty, and no SOL.

    But I also know that none of this is going to happen as long as people feel that psychotherapy is legitimate. If psychotherapy is somehow legitimate then people are going to believe that all manner of psychiatry is someone legitimate.

    So I am not interested in talking about which psych meds are worst than others, or anything else abput psychiatiatry forced or otherwise, as there is nothing to discuss. There are only actions to take.

    Nomadic

    #76844
    Frank Blankenship
    Participant

    Foucault explained that subjugation is already contained in ideas like freedom and liberation. Freedom and liberation are what keep people driving to work each morning, doing nonsense, but using up precious fossil fuels. Believing that they can have freedom and liberation is what makes people believe that there is something wrong with them if they don’t already have it. Again, this is an adaptation of original sin.

    Original sin is a Christian concept, and Michel Foucault was an atheist, therefore, N/A.

    One could say the reverse is also true, the idea of subjugation is contained in ideas like freedom and liberation. Foucault, at the close of his career, turned to the subject of the origins of ethics, and tackled the subject of self-mastery. One could wonder about the ethical choices of slaves except for the fact that slaves can’t make ethical choices, being property. The master is responsible for his own behavior and for seeing to his slaves.

    The question is how can people be ethical, that is to say, morally responsible, without at the same time being free? They can’t, can they? This is the dilemma of mental health law in that it takes freedom, and with it responsibility, from people who are supposedly adult, and who would otherwise be covered by constitutional law.

    I am not indifferent to anything about forced psychiatry, medication, and electro-shock. I want these things to be eradicated by any means necessary. And I will support the strongest possible of penalties too, things which go way beyond our enforcement of ordinary criminal justice, like revolutionary justice or International Crimes Against Humanity with a death penalty, and no SOL.

    But I also know that none of this is going to happen as long as people feel that psychotherapy is legitimate. If psychotherapy is somehow legitimate then people are going to believe that all manner of psychiatry is someone legitimate.

    One could say the same thing about religion, but religion is, according to the textbooks I read in school, a need, and therefor…I wouldn’t expect too much from a human being, but I would be aware, at the same time, that they are capable of learning.

    So I am not interested in talking about which psych meds are worst than others, or anything else abput psychiatiatry forced or otherwise, as there is nothing to discuss. There are only actions to take.

    Actions directed at that learning curve. We have, from the “mental illness” industry, this narrative going about “mental health” that is false, and entirely a matter of endless reiteration. The choir is forever singing to itself. Assuming that facts matter, it is important to show people that much of this narrative is false, and that there are other ways of doing things.

    #76862
    Nomadic
    Participant

    Frank this is getting silly. Foucault opposed Christianity, as do I. He opposes use of concepts like Original Sin, as do I.

    Everyone is always free, they always have choices.
    http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/exist.html

    I want to use harsh tactics to run psychotherapists out of business. I would not try to do this with religion. Thomas Jefferson tried to outlaw religion in the Virginia State Constitution. Eventually he realized that that was not practical, and so what we have instead is the first amendment doctrine of separation of church and state.

    Maximilien Robespierre was plagued with people who wanted hierarchy and authority, and the way this was manifest was in religion. He tried guillotining all of them, but there was no end to them. So finally he tried to replace religion by creating the “Cult of the Supreme Being”, staring himself. For many this was the final straw, and so Robespierre got guillotined.

    So now, we are cursed with religion, but we can’t try to openly eradicate it. But we can offer altered forms. And just like with alcohol and street drugs, a prohibition on psychotherapy probably would not work.

    But I still say that we can strike where there is government connection to psychotherapy, which there usually is, and we can advance a religious exemption to psychotherapy, with threat of law suit if violated. And we should be able to target and expose a few psychotherapists and besides closing them down, show people what an okey doke it is.

    So what we need are first hand affidavits about what goes on in psychotherapy sessions. I will have a web site for this, and until I get some affidavits, I’ll just go to places, like our County Hospital, and pass out fliers on the side walk, and go to other government funded psychotherapy addresses. But I won’t concentrate on any one of them until I get affidavits.

    Nomadic

    #76900
    Frank Blankenship
    Participant

    Everyone is always free, they always have choices.

    Previously you were arguing that nobody is free. I don’t how you can change anything unless you are free to do so. If you are not free to do so, it doesn’t change.

    I think we’ve got an uphill battle information-wise before we will be in a position to tar and feather psychotherapists and run them out of town. Anyway, I think being hopeful is preferable to being cynical.

    #76908
    Nomadic
    Participant

    Everyone is free because they can decide how they respond in any situation. But, this does not mean that the world is fair or that any of us have a legitimated social status.

    Not difficult to tar and feather psychotherapists, if their client will turn against them. This is actually quite common.

    Nomadic

    #76967
    Firestarter
    Participant

    I have been a slave all my life, after I quit my job on March 1, 2004, I was locked up from January 27, 2005 on. Can you imagine that the psychiatrist that concluded I suffer from both schizophrenia and Syndrom of Asperger, without actually speaking me, thought that Firestarter would probably set his house on fire?
    At the first court session I attented, on May 18, 2005, the Judge said I had to be locked up, because “normal people” do not stop working without a good reason.

    #77083
    Nomadic
    Participant

    Firestarter, I am very sorry over what happened to you. We need to organize and start taking actions.

    Nomadic

    #77019
    Nomadic
    Participant

    Firestarter, I do not live in the country you do. So I don’t know how things are done there. But what you are saying makes sense. My view is that Psychotherapy and Psychiatry exist to regulate and subdue any and all who don’t comply with the standards of Capitalism and the Middle-Class Family.

    See my link about the hearing voices group?

    Do people agree with me that besides taking down Psychiatry, what we really need to be doing is gathering up all the abandoned and condemned people and mobilizing them?
    https://www.madinamerica.com/forums/topic/abandoned-and-condemned/

    Nomadic

    #77166
    Firestarter
    Participant

    When I tell the people in the Kingdom of the Netherlands, we are ruled by Dictator King Willem-Alexander of banker’s family Oranje-Nassau, they look at me like I’m insane. When I tell them they only have to read the Dutch constitution to find out, they think it’s too much trouble. When I tell them the state is a terrorist organisation, they say I’m an idiot.
    One of the differences between the USA and the Netherlands is that the USA actually has the constitution for a democracy. But then again this doesn’t really matter, because there’s nothing you can do if your government violates your human rights.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by Firestarter.
    #77015
    Nomadic
    Participant

    Firestarter, what you are saying is tragic, but it makes sense. I don’t live in the country you live in, so I don’t know how things are done there. But as I see it, psychotherapy and psychiatry are used to regulate all those who do not agree with Capitalism and the Middle-Class Family.

    Correct?

    find my post about the hearing voices group?

    Do people agree that besides going after psychiatry, what we need to be doing is gathering and rallying all those abandoned and condemned people?
    https://www.madinamerica.com/forums/topic/abandoned-and-condemned/

    Nomadic

    #77279
    Nomadic
    Participant

    Nothing you can do if your government violates your human rights?

    Sometimes you can organize. But alone it is hard to do much. But I do respect you for the heroic efforts you are obviously making.

    Nomadic

    #77370
    oldhead
    Participant

    In the future somebody please inform us whenever articles such as this appear in Psychology Today or other pubs., so we can all respond in real time!

    #77831
    PaisleyToes
    Participant

    Nomadic and others — I am new here, and feeling a bit like a second class citizen for continuing to take psych meds in moderation. I have been desperately over-medicated, and threatened and terribly treated by p-docs. I have made med and environment changes and balances to the extent that I feel happy and productive.
    I am really overwhelmed by the stories of people coming off meds to find they were “fine” but don’t actually seem that fine or happy to me. Obviously I am not in a great position to make such a judgement. I do feel like using meds does not mean necessarily that I am coerced. I am not only strictly a consumer.
    Foucault, since he was mentioned, seems to focus more on social constructions more than individual ones, if I read Madness and Civilization correctly. We live lives as individuals, but the aggregate is really where all the action is at. I’m not entirely comfortable with using myself or any other individual to prove a large-scale point, or make generalizations to myself from large-scale patterns. Such as saying meds are coerced or even p-docs are self-interested.

    Are meds pretty much universally looked down on here? If so, what’s the baby-bathwater argument? Or would people here think I’m deluded?
    Paisley

    #77832
    uprising
    Participant

    I am new here, and feeling a bit like a second class citizen for continuing to take psych meds in moderation.

    You are not a second class citizen. There is no consensus here about anything except that psychiatry needs to be “re-thought” in one way or another. The viewpoints tend to range from consumer-rights-based to psychiatric abolitionist, but occasionally mainstream viewpoints are expressed as well.

    Psych drugs have been devastating to me personally, and I will never take them again, nor will I recommend them, but I respect your right to take them if you feel they are helpful and you have been given informed consent. A lot of people who post here were not given informed consent.

    I am really overwhelmed by the stories of people coming off meds to find they were “fine” but don’t actually seem that fine or happy to me.

    It’s often true (as it is in my case) that people are neither “fine” nor “happy” when they come off psych drugs, but a lot of times it is due to drug withdrawal and not necessarily “pre-existing” or “unmasked conditions,” as psychiatrists so often assume. Or maybe the person is having a difficult time because of trauma, discrimination, poverty, or a host of other reasons. That does not indicate that they need psych drugs.

    Anyway, I liked a post you made earlier and hope that you will consider sticking around and sharing your perspective. There’s no party line here.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 45 total)
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