Wednesday, April 14, 2021


Forum Replies Created

Viewing 15 posts - 301 through 315 (of 339 total)
  • Author
  • in reply to: Bringing YouTube justice to inpatient abuse #75284

    Lets find some attorneys who are involved in these kinds of suits. Lets find some ongoing suits and look at the attorneys involved.

    Besides anti-psychiatric lawsuits, I am also interested in child v parents lawsuits.

    This Tanya Helfand in New Jersey really impressed me.



    Want to post denunciations of therapists, clinics, or white coats?


    in reply to: Canada Adopts Basic Guaranteed Income #75282


    Or maybe this:

    If I understand what it means, then no we don’t want allism, and by its very nature it tends to be compulsory.

    I find this redirect:

    As I see it, Neurotypical = Muggle

    Lametamor, I’ll look at your forum and try to join. Not sure how much is in English, or what it is really about. But I need to learn. I’ll email you too.

    Here is my forum

    The US has still not ratified the 1989 UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

    I’m going to post more about this psychiatric survivor and anti-psychiatry topic.


    Seven Decades Ago the U.S. Detained 120,000 Japanese Americans, Could It Happen Again?

    To Live with Honor and Die with Honor: The Story of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising

    in reply to: Problems With the Term "Psychiatric Survivor" #75177

    Years ago I saw a girl who had a car with lots of bumper stickers. One said, “I survived Catholic School”.

    I thought that was hilarious.

    I am a survivor of the middle-class family.

    I would never want people in my f2f life to see me as a psychiatric survivor, that would mean that I was unemployable.

    I would never hire anyone who was “In Recovery”, meaning for substance addictions.

    I’ll have to look into this Torrey.

    Joseph Lieberman is a Veteran of the Edmund Pettis Bridge. His wife’s parents are holocaust survivors.

    I would like to be a veteran of anti-psychiatric, anti-behavior modification, anti-middle class family direct actions.

    But I am not, yet.


    in reply to: Defining Anti-Psychiatry #75172

    Okay, well Piven and Cloward changed that, no begging handout from gov’t, simply demanding what they were legally entitled to and never settling for anything less.

    But other types of demands might be protection from disinheritance. Demand legislatively and judicially.

    Demand extension to SOLs for all forms of child abuse and exploitation.

    Then set up industries, communal living, alternative educational systems, and demand money from the government. When I say demand, make an allegation and then tell they that they are expected to pay. Never saying please or thank you, and going almost all the way to saying “or else”.

    I do feel that the mental health system and the money which runs it and the money which can be paid out are used to keep people compliant. So it works just like welfare money.

    This is why people who should know the importance of this don’t reject the labels.

    Yes we have an insane economic system. THe problem is not self-reliance, it is the Self-Reliance Ethic, as this gives parents the right to abuse their children, and psychotherapists the right to help them perform this abuse.

    So enough:

    1. Lets find a psychotherapist we can put out of business.
    2. Lets find an adult child who is fighting disinheritance that we can help, by going into the court room.
    3. Lets find someone who is trying to build a school or commune who we can help by bullying money out of the government.
    4. Lets get some child v parents abuse law suits going and help make sure the child wins!



    You’ve got private messages awaiting you right now. 🙂


    in reply to: Mental heath care and guns political cartoon remake #75164

    ” I wonder if the decade long waste of my life due to psychiatry would have been shorter if I googled a hospital name and a link to anti psychiatry (the medical truth) came up. Would have been nice.”


    Well perhaps so. Or maybe people have to go through psychotherapy to see for themselves that their therapist is not the ally, not their comrade, but actually just another violator. Anyone who is telling you that you have no right to redress is a secondary rapist.

    So maybe people have to find out for themselves. But then on the other hand, good info about hospitals, clinics, doctors, and about the entire psychiatric edifice will help.

    So enough talk, lets make it happen, right here:

    Start posting your complaints, and tell me how I should fix it up so there is a special place and one can search it. I can make a MYSQL database and then a PHP program which looks up for the state you select.

    Some people might be concerned about getting sued. I would relish that, because if I have to appear in court, then they do to. So what I would most want would be signed affidavits from locatable people giving their real identity. By complaints and sidewalk picketing, I’ll force these White Coat Abusers to come out into the open.


    in reply to: Defining Anti-Psychiatry #75114

    The middle-class family tries to make you accept the self-reliance ethic. And included in this is the premise that no one owes you anything and you can never have anyone to blame except yourself.

    And so they break your wings and try to make you forget that you ever had a chance of flying. Einsteins, Mozarts, Andy Warhols, and Elon Musks are turned into Homer Simpsons. And most go along with it. But there are a few who resist. They get sent into the Mental Health System, and this tries to enforce the same premises.

    The reason some resist? Often it is because they are the designated scape goat, and so they just can’t live the denial systems. So they have no choice but to try and fight back.

    The reason this is so central to the middle-class is that these are those who experience themselves as having a choice in how they live their lives. But they don’t want to face this, so they act like they have to perform, and then transfer this onus to their children. The middle-class family feeds off of children, because it lives in Bad-Faith.

    In a small percentage of cases there is just something which lets the children see that they are being used and that the system is wrong. Some of these do go on to do great and revolutionary things. But most end up in the Mental Health or Criminal Justice Systems, or just living under bridges, or worse.

    So Capitalism has always depended upon making people believe that there is something wrong with them and so they must submit and perform and deliver to prove otherwise. The Family enforces this, backed up by the Mental Health System.

    So we have to organize and find ways to fight back. We will never get beyond Capitalism and the Family ( what D and G call Oedipus ) but we can force it make accommodations ( what D and G call axiomatics ).

    But to do this we have to start organizing and then striking some blows. So I am interested in teaming up with anyone who is striking blows, instead of doing Recovery or Therapy.


    in reply to: Defining Anti-Psychiatry #75113

    Sure, I want the system to contract. I encourage everyone to reject all mental health and learning disability labels. But most do not, and most of the advocacy groups will not, because it involves money.

    Sami Timimi says that giving people Autism labels is closely coupled to a reduction in political willingness to extend a general economic safety net.

    You know that in the United States, AFDC, from the Social Security Act, no longer exists. Instead after Clinton and Gingrich we have Tanif. The states have a great deal of discretion in how they administrate this.

    In some states they are not really enforcing strict time limits. Instead they are using extended benefits as a means of funneling people into psychiatric disability benefits.

    There are lots who get government money by going this way. Anyone who is “mad as hell and not going to take it anymore” is likely to get funneled into accepting a psychiatric label and money.

    The way to get government money without these strings is to get it by demanding without making any concessions. Then the money will be supplied in order to keep the peace. Foster kids should be taken care of, and if the present system is doing it with psych meds, then we have cause to act.

    I say we should move from asking to demanding. Maybe we won’t get what we want, but at least we will be making it clear that we won’t accept what is being offered, because of the strings and because of the abuse.

    Our economic system runs because they can say that the poor are unfit to compete. So we need to turn that around and show them that the poor will take what they need, if it is not provided free of strings.

    Fund raising, dirty hands? Well yes, if by that you mean corporate sponsors or institutions. No I mean tax payer money, demanded and received without making one iota of concession.

    Imagine this, 100 Foster Care Kids camped out on the lawn of a state capital, refusing to go to the care home, but refusing to leave either. So it is either a safe institution brokered with an outside party, and with zero ass kissing, or you would have to take the kids to jail. Or show that foster care as it stands now is jail.

    I think the most important point is just that we identify some places where we can act, instead of debate.

    Frances Fox-Piven’s Welfare Rights Movement was about just that, demanding the full welfare benefit one was entitled to, instead of asking for it and being made to jump through hoops and face reductions.

    And Piven has written at great length about how the poor get coopted and get very little, once they accept a place in the system and the political process. I mean an administrative job, or being part of a professional advocacy group, and they are out of action. The best strength the poor have is the ability to disrupt. Her campaign worked because at that time there had been race riots. So this was always a threat each time they had problems at a welfare office.

    One place to do this would be inhertitance, take the position that parents cannot disinherit their children. If the money is to go other places, let that decision be made by the children. Take the power away from the parents. So insist on this and do what is necessary to make it happen, without compromising.

    You show me someone who is poor or in the mental health system, and I’ll show you a familial child abuse survivor, though they may not understand this themselves because they lack political consciousness.

    Make the government understand that they either prevent child disinheritance and take care of the poor and psychologically befuddled, or people will rise up and create great disorder as they do whatever they need to in order to get what they need.

    Most of this psychiatric system is just a means of delegitimating people who are poor and who will not accept their lowly position in the world. Most of the stuff pitched at the poor is simply intended to get them to accept shit jobs.

    If they had political consciousness and could organize, they could sue for damages or get something else. But as their political consciousness is destroyed by things like alcohol, street drugs, psych meds, Recovery and Salvation Groups, or Motivationalism, they are unable to organize. But they are kept placated by disability money and so they are induced into accepting the mental illness labels.

    We cannot win every conceivable battle, but we can win some. That is unless we decide not to even try. In that case we cannot win any.

    Think of the triangle, Middle-Class Family, Capitalism, and with the enforcer being the Psychiatric System. This is what we are faced with, and so we need to find some places where we can strike!!

    Inheritance money, no strings attached citizenship pay, stopping all forms of therapeutic abuse ( all forms of therapy really ), good jobs, good wages, union representation, protection of the rights of children, adult children organizing and kicking some ass, holding parents accountable, making any problem into a problem of the parents, so that child abuse and Munchausens no longer pay, unlimited free college, universal single payer health care, universal economic safety net, no stigma as it is citizen ship pay and freely offered public housing.

    These are the things I am interested in, and in particular how to engage in conflict to start making such things happen. Look for places where all forms of advocacy, including direct action and more, can be used.

    Know anyone doing such, I want to contact them. On going actions? Ongoing litigations?

    Food Not Bombs is great! But guess what, in some places it doesn’t really go because local government has figured out that all they have to do is fail to enforce their own ordinances and allow the Born Again groups, and then they suck all the oxygen away from Food Not Bombs, so it is neutralized.



    I agree!



    People believe psych meds help them? Well sure, lots of people believe that heroin, cocaine, and ethanol help them too.


    in reply to: Problems With the Term "Psychiatric Survivor" #75108

    Of course one is a survivor instead of a cadaver, otherwise they wouldn’t be talking about it. But being a survivor, what was the nature of their contact. Why did they submit to it?

    Even if you or I have never been take to a doctor, anyone who has grown up in a middle-class family could have been at any time loaded into the car and driven to the doctor, who would be then empowered to cure us to make our parents happy.

    Then likewise, if you are a poor or homeless adult, you stand a good chance of ending up in the hands of a doctor.

    Some people have melt downs and get 5150ed. Accepting the diagnosis and the medication is one of the worst decisions they could possibly ever make.

    I know one guy who had a history of anxiety attacks and asked to be admitted to the hospital for observation because his style of attacks mimicked a coronary.

    His thinking was smart. But in the County Hospital they deal with coronaries around the clock, so they could tell that he had not had any. They loaded him into an ambulance and soon he was in an out of town psych ward and with a diagnosis and medication. They had a group therapy meeting every morning, where people would set goals for themselves, like making it to the bathroom in time.

    A month later he checked himself out and tended to his affairs. This was smart. But what was not smart was that he accepted the diagnosis and the meds, and then he came to believe that the meds really were in his best interest, and that he had to live without feeling his feelings. And then accepting this of course meant money.

    Now what was going on in this guy’s life which caused such anxiety? Well he had been for about the 3rd time in his life forced out of a chosen career. It was not just a layoff, the guy was out. And it turned into an early retirement. And so he had to sell the home he had inherited from his deceased parents, while having no income. And he had grown up in a mother dominated neurotic family with a completely ineffectual father and where he was completely objectified.

    Of course this would cause anxiety. And he was right to finally check himself out of the psych hospital and sell the house.

    But he was wrong to accept the diagnosis. But the diagnosis gave him a monthly income, on top of what he would be getting from the savings bonds he had a lawyer put the house money into.

    But also, this guy had spent most of his life working as a Psychiatric Technician in our County Hospital! He used to deal with all the people who got 5150ed, and he felt that he was qualified to diagnose. He believed in the system and in medication.

    He also had a long history of good medical benefits and ready access to their great pharmacy, and so he was accustomed to looking to doctors and medications as the solutions to problems.

    So I could say that he got what he deserved, as it was simply what he had spent decades doing to other people!

    Of course I have no interest in prying into other people’s affairs and I strictly apply a military style of security to my own affairs. But if I may just ask the rhetorical question, for those who see themselves as psychiatric survivors, what is it that got you into the system? How did you end up in the doctors office? Why did you talk with the doctor instead of telling them where to get off, or just walking out of their office?

    1. Long history of mother driving them to doctors of one sort of another?

    2. 5150ed, believe that the doctor is someone they should trust?

    3. Working in the psych industry themselves, believe in it?

    4. Go along with the idea of Recovery because of 12 step or history with religion?

    5. Read about Freud or Jung and curious?

    I’m not intending here to make fun of people, but you must see my point. How did you get into that office and why did you cooperate at all?

    For myself, issue 1 would be a big part of it, as well as issue 4.

    And then again, for any of us who are like myself “survivor of the middle class family”, being thrown into the psychiatric system or to disabilities therapists was always a very real threat, whether actualized of not. It was always a proximal fear, because it would be how our parents dealt with deviance or non-compliance.

    Middle-class parents hire their own doctors. Working-class ( really today it would be under-class ) parents get doctors assigned to them by government agencies. This is the main difference between the two kinds of families. And the reason I know this is from reading the works of the Milan School of Family Systems Therapists.


    in reply to: Defining Anti-Psychiatry #75107

    Frank and oldhead, your posts are fascinating to me.

    Perhaps someone might care to enlighten me as to what this Murphy Bill is?

    As I see it, no one should ever submit to the psychiatric system in any manner whatsoever. We should be issuing membership cards to people explaining that they refuse to submit and that any attempts to make the submit will result in immediate lawsuits, and which imply that the psychiatric system will always be seen as a proximal lethal threat and that appropriate acts will be taken to neutralize it.

    The way people are made to submit to our economic system is The Family and the Psychiatric system.

    I think cooption is always going to be a problem. I mean, everyone wants to believe that they can have a place in this world without having to fight in a war. And then there are paychecks and disability payments.

    R. D. Laing lost it. Alice Miller lost it. Most people do.

    I see the family and capitalism as two sides of the same coin, and then psychotherapy as being the bully cop enforcer. Peter Breggin says that the original reason for the invention of psychiatry was to be able to lock up homeless men who were not breaking any laws.

    So for myself, I want to set the bar as low as possible. No psychiatric meds, no psychotherapy of any type whatsoever, no Recovery Movement. No Getting Saved.

    No I don’t want to impose laws against these things, essentially free speech, but I do want to delegitimate them, and strictly enforce against any government complicity.

    So I see the psych system coming into play in two arenas, the first is familial abuse. So long as a parent can take their kid to a doctor and say, like in Sickened by Julie Christy, “Can’t you see, there is something wrong with this kid”, then you’ve government licensed child abuse.

    And then in the lives of the poor. Where I live there are express allegiances between our County Mental Health and Born Again Recovery Programs, and then Rick Warren says his Celebrating Recovery is the official program in most state prisons. Our muni governments put Food Not Bombs volunteers in handcuffs, but they turn a blind eye to the Born Again programs which do the same things. They have run out homeless feeds from churches and even gotten their own alternate church pastors installed, and then endorsed Recovery Programs on the grounds of the same churches. They endorse programs designed to humiliate the homeless and poor by putting them into Work Readiness Programs, not jobs, Work Readiness Programs.

    Do these cut the guts out of the municipal employee unions and make them toe the line? You bet they do, when poverty and job loss are that disgraceful.

    So I take a hard line position, There is no such things as mental illness or developmental disorders like Autism, Aspergers, ADHD. There is no psychological healing, and these autism therapies are simply psychological torture.

    Give me 20 minutes alone with the parents of one of these kids, and I’ll make them see things differently.

    I read the books written by those who have come to accept that they have autism/aspergers. They say they have all sorts of deficiencies. But I read their books and I don’t see it. All I see is that they have had to endure oppressive environments with out social status, and that they lack political consciousness, so they blame themselves.

    I have read the writings of the parents and what I see and feel is the visceral contempt that they have for their child. And this comes into play even before there was a diagnosis.

    Again, let me deal with some of these parents, personally.

    So with Anti-Psychiatry, what are you trying to do, make a reformed version of psychiatry? Mind Freedom seems to want this.

    Make a new kind of therapy? Like Existential Therapy or Primal Therapy? Especially with the later, that is horrid abuse and denigration.

    So I always see alternative as political consciousness raising and action.

    Wonderful scene from Battle of Algiers. A guy wants into the revolution. So they hand him a pistol. He is supposed to kill a police officer. So he aims and fires, but the gun doesn’t work. So someone else kills the officer. And then he says, “We had to test you.”

    So we can discuss what has and has not worked about the Anti-Psychiatry movement. But the real issue is always then, are you willing to take action. People do not have to be in complete agreement when they act.

    So then what actions do we take? For myself I can see some of the best areas as

    1. Trying to put a doctor or clinic out of business by collecting affidavits and doing sidewalk protest in order to get more. No meta theory in this, not everyone has to agree on everything, they just have to be willing to act. Best if the doctor is someone who sees clients at public expense, as that is always the worst form of talk therapy as it is used to try and make people submit to their low station in life and comply with expectations.

    2. Also go after a doctor or clinic suspected of encouraging munchausens by proxy. This is how the middle class family works, how it enforces its authority.

    3. Fight against government officials who support the programs designed to denigrate and humiliate the poor, and make legal allowances for Born Again groups on public property.

    There may be other ideas people have, of things we could do which would get results, but without requiring complete agreement on all issues or requiring any landslide changes in public opinion.

    Again, I think this is really important:

    I’m sure this is not unique to California. And someone should be organizing the survivors into a militant force, and we should be demanding 100% public financial support to set up alternative institutions which are safe, as well as making it understood that those who do this drugging will not go unpunished.


    in reply to: Lets expose every single psychiatric hospital in the US #75080

    We want to attack where we can do the most good. And of course it depends upon which aspect of the psychiatric system you find to be the most offensive.

    I think we could put a single therapist out of private practice if we have people ready to sign complaints and people ready to do sidewalk picketing to get follow up complaints.


    in reply to: Problems With the Term "Psychiatric Survivor" #75079

    Psychiatric Survivor?

    Well for one thing, to talk about any contact with the psychiatric system, is to give yourself a public stigma.

    And also, with all these sorts of abuses I don’t think someone is really ever a survivor until they have fought back and actually inflicted some damage. If they have done this, they are a Victor. But until they have done this, they are still a Victim.

    Someone who is following Live and Let Live is not just a Victim, they are a collaborator. The main purpose of the family and psychotherapy is to tell you that no one owes you anything, as you must rely on yourself. So if you are doing this, relying on yourself, then they have won. And they will continue to abuse today’s children in the same ways that they abused you, so that those children will finally submit and concede that no one owes them anything and they must rely on themselves.

    We need something like the Bonus Army. What that was properly about was called the Pay Adjustment Act, justice for WWI veterans. It made a huge difference to them when they finally got it. Until they did, they were not survivors, they were Victims.

    If I said that I am a holocaust survivor, that would be different, because the holocaust is universally understood as an injustice. But consider rape, do people go around saying that they are rape survivors? Not usually because we still tend to see the victims as culpable.

    LGBT’s have Stonewall. The Holocaust has the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Alice Miller was interned in the Ghetto and she learned how to get in and out and found comrades on the outside and was able to smuggle in food. She survived the uprising and the crackdown.

    How about Anti-Psychiatric Avenger, or Anti-Psychiatric Guerrilla? How about us finding some actions we can undertake to punch some holes in the psychiatric edifice?

    Mind Freedom at least used to claim to have an underground railroad and safe houses for those facing compulsory medication.

    In Luke it talks about the 10 Lepers Jesus heals and sends back to show themselves to the High Priest. In study groups people take on the role of a leper and talk about the experience and what they did.

    I have done this and I explain that they probably saw me begging out in front of the Temple, but that does not mean that that was all I was doing. That was just cover. I am one of the Zealots tasked with watching the movements of the Sanhedrin members 24/7. But now that my body is made whole, I can do more. I will be starting weapons training immediately. I will become expert in the use of Roman short swords. I don’t need any approval from the High Priest. Jesus told the others that, because he could see that that was what they needed. I will so excel in my training that I might be given the task of dealing with the High Priest personally.

    How about Psychiatric Abolitionist?

    Harriet Tubman liberated close to 300 slaves by making repeated runs into Maryland. She became a conductor on the underground railroad. Then she helped recruit for John Brown’s Raid on Harper’s Ferry. She also rescued a man slated for renditioning to a state of slavery from custody in the court house in Troy New York, twice in the same day. Then she planned and executed with Colonel James Montgomery the Combahee River Raid, far behind Confederate lines in South Carolina, and liberated close to 800 slaves.

    Problem is, the psychiatric system is the bully cop for the middle-class family. Just busting someone out of it is not justice, because what this is all about is the self reliance ethic verses owing a debt. So to get justice you have to make the parents and our society pay their debt and accept they have complete responsibility in all such cases.

    In the US, when someone realizes they have been shaped by a dysfunctional family, they go to a psychotherapist, a recovery group, or to get saved.

    In British Columbia you don’t need to do any of this; you just call a lawyer, like Trevor Todd in Vancouver. He will make sure you don’t get disinherited. He will send someone to talk sense into the senile-suicidal testators once. If that does not work, he files under the wills variation act and then follows up with a process server. And it is not necessary to show need.

    I mean, your psychiatric history is your own business. If it were me, I might talk about it after a major victory and inflicting severe losses on the other side, to help people understand why I took such extreme actions.

    Andrew Vachss’s fictional character and alter-ego is part of a criminal underground and he has set up a Family of Choice. They hunt down and execute those who prey on children.

    Vachss himself is a Children’s Defense Attorney. He will never work for the parents, only the child.

    Simon Wiesenthal was a Nazi Hunter.

    Wiesenthal was often asked to explain his motives for becoming a Nazi hunter. According to Clyde Farnsworth in the New York Times Magazine (February 2, 1964), Wiesenthal once spent the Sabbath at the home of a former Mauthausen inmate, now a well-to-do jewelry manufacturer. After dinner his host said, “Simon, if you had gone back to building houses, you’d be a millionaire. Why didn’t you?” “You’re a religious man,” replied Wiesenthal. “You believe in God and life after death. I also believe. When we come to the other world and meet the millions of Jews who died in the camps and they ask us, ‘What have you done?,’ there will be many answers. You will say, ‘I became a jeweler,’ Another will say, ‘I have smuggled coffee and American cigarettes,’ Another will say, ‘I built houses,’ But I will say, ‘I did not forget you’.”

    Wiesenthal was instrumental in getting the Statue of Limitations on War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity lifted, in the mid-1960’s, and lifted retroactively.

    Child Sexual Abuse SOL-Reform

    There is nothing about familial child abuse or psychiatric abuse which is past and over. It still goes on today because we live in a world which demands it. Each of us is still being abused to this very day each time we are told to just get over it and go on and that no one owes us anything. Forcing people to accept such is the reason why such abuses are perpetrated.

    I will be happy if I can someday legitimately earn the title, “Man of Action”.

    How about Anti-Psychiatric Enforcer?

    I think the real key is just enforcing culpability.

    “You are not alone. Seeking justice for survivors of childhood abuse is more than a job — it’s our cause.”

    “Sexual Abuse Attorneys Ready to Tackle The Toughest Cases”

    You can always tell when you are dealing with a highly abusive family because they will have at least one blacksheep. Here is a list of types of things they say about their blacksheep:

    •Drug and alcohol abuse
    •Failed personal and romantic relationships
    •Loss of religious faith, in cases of clergy abuse
    •Disinterest in family relationships
    •Disintegration of a family
    •Poor self-esteem
    •Feelings of deep depression
    •Difficulties with casual social relationships
    •Feelings of isolation and despair
    •Loss of trust in authority figures and institutions who don’t report child molestation
    •Despair in reaction to persecuting attitudes of police
    •Inappropriate sexual behavior
    •Poor work habits
    •Unemployment or underemployment

    Oh, but I borrowed this list from someone who turns it around and argues the other way so that justice can be had:

    I feel that you have to understand the psychiatric system by the role it serves in continuing and intensifying familial child abuse.


    Sarah Connor escapes

    Wait Until Dark, quarter tone music

Viewing 15 posts - 301 through 315 (of 339 total)