Friday, September 18, 2020

Comments by Nomadic

Showing 708 of 712 comments. Show all.

  • Any of us that are socially marginalized, and especially if we are not going the disability label or recovery route, we are at great risk for falling into the mental health system.

    Your best defenses are:

    1. Say nothing
    2. Threaten lawsuits
    3. Fight like your life depends up on it, because it does, and get the hell out of there.

    What we really need is an anti-mental health, anti-recovery forum, so that we can organize and take actions. Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • “You’re looking better”

    I had a friend who had worked in the psychiatric system. He used to look me straight in the eyes and say, “An how are you feeling today?” It was like I was a patient, meaning, what I felt was about my mental health, not about objective reality. So if I told him it was raining, or I felt good, it would be just like telling him I had just been aboard a space ship.

    So I looked him straight in the eyes and said, “That is how you talk to your mental patients.” And then with a slow steady tone which indicated that disregard of my message could have dire consequences, “I’m not going to put up with that. And they shouldn’t put up with it either.”

    Zenobia, if people are refusing psychiatric meds, great. We need to get it so more people are refusing. And I say that we have to get them to refuse street drugs too. Either can be a gateway to the other. Either can be a justification for the other.

    And if people are accepting drugs, when given to them by their talk therapist, we need to do more to make people understand that they are selling themselves out with talk therapy, guaranteeing abuse.

    I think this is very important, the high water mark:
    http://therapyabuse.org/

    Even though they are only saying that some therapy is abusive, it is still a start.

    And then this, these guys deal with “transference”. This is a concept invented by Freud, to justify abuse.
    http://www.wmlawyers.com/Personal-Injury-Practice/Therapist-Abuse-PP/

    We should be inundating these lawyers with clients!

    And then what do you think about this:
    https://hope4mentalhealth.com/

    This is Rick and Kay Warren, after their 27yo son Matthew shot himself in the head, they are committed to propagating the idea that mental illness is real. I consider them and their ministry to be a 1st magnitude threat.
    https://hope4mentalhealth.com/

    We need an anti-mental health, anti-recovery forum. Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • Philip, I don’t know that momentum is being gained or that things are going in a good direction:

    Here, typical case, mother convinced that her son has “mental illness”, and her whole identity revolves around this:

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/i-am-his-mother-t440.html

    And then most of the country believes in Recovery and Therapy, meaning that the experience of injustice is a time for self-improvement instead of redress.

    And then horror of horrors, the mental health and recovery system is merging with the Born Again Christian Movement:
    http://hope4mentalhealth.com/

    Rick and Kay Warren of the Saddle Back Church, after their 27yo son shot himself in the head.

    Remember, their is hope, don’t give up!

    So the way to push this is to take actions, like lawsuits and protests. Run some psychiatrists and psychotherapists out of business.

    I think this is a high water mark right here:
    http://therapyabuse.org/RS_lawyers.htm

    We should be saturating these attorneys with clients:
    http://therapyabuse.org/RS_lawyers.htm

    Send me anyone who has had any contact with the mental health system, and I will find them a suitable attorney.

    And then most of the time there is child abuse underneath.

    Again, lawsuits, criminal prosecutions, and protests.

    I helped to get a conviction on one man who was molesting his daughter’s, with the full support of his church. Now I just wrote in support of him being tried again, in case he is able to get out on appeal.

    Actions, not just talk.

    Nomadic

  • If someone is feeling anxiety, then obviously it is for good reason. They may not really know what the anxiety is over, but undoubtedly it pertains to threats against their health, well being, and safety.

    So then the last thing in this world that they need is Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Life-Coaching, or Recovery. Rather, they need to be able to work with comrades in fighting against injustice.

    And we on this forum, need to make our own anti-mental health and anti-recovery forum.
    Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • And, it is not just the mother who is wrong. It is our entire society. We do not protect children from familial child abuse. We use things like psychiatry, psychiatric medications, psychotherapy, and the recovery movement to cover up for child abuse, and for the fact that many go thru adolescence in entirely unworkable situations, and then enter adult hood with zero chance at adult life. And this will never change until people are able to see this.

  • Good place to relate a story:

    Neighborhood young man acts real goofy. People call him crazy, say he has mental problems. Most people avoid talking too him. Probably about 20yo. Most would take him as probably homeless and drug addict.

    Yesterday, someone called police. They had a long talk with him. Woman asked me if they arrested him. I told her that they did not. She explained that she is his mother.

    She explained that he has ‘mental problems’, she seemed to have wanted the police to arrest him, and she refused to tell me if he is on drugs or alcohol. Sounds like he lives with her.

    She talks about getting him to court, meaning that when he has been arrested, she has used the court appearances to get involved in his affairs. Sounds like she wants him in jail. Talks about that as the only remedy.

    Now, my standing doctrine on these types of cases is, punish the parent, severely and publicly. These cases are the results of child abuse, and the most important thing is to let the child see that the parent is wrong and that our society punishes them.

    But this case is different from most of those I have seen. With most the parents are filled with Born Again and Middle-Class righteousness, and it is clear that they have used the child. Most of the time it is to make their marriage work.

    But this woman works in a fast food restaurant, and to me she comes across as a single mother who has nothing.

    So would taking what little she might have help?

    And of the son, of course I oppose therapy and Recovery Programs. Is this son someone who would be good to fight in a political movement? Hardly.

    So what to do, where to look?

    Well, if I encounter her again I will politely ask more. She knows I don’t agree with the concept of mental illness. But she is committed to this. It makes her right and her son wrong.

    So I will ask about the history, what age did his ‘affliction’ start, and how many doctors have seen him, and since when.

    Of course I am looking to establish this as child abuse. But also, the guys who should be punished are the doctors who did not report to the family court. A high level of conflict with a parent is child abuse. No matter if it is a single parent, married parents, or if they are rich or poor. The idea of mental illness was given to her by these doctors, and as they did not report, they are accomplice child abusers. So they are where the hammer should fall.

    And of course the son has to see that the reason for this is that his mother is wrong.

    Nomadic

  • Mary Olsen, I read what you have written and the problem is obvious. You are getting people to disclose personal affairs, as is standard in psychotherapy and life coaching. But then there is no teeth, no justice, no one is penalized. So it ends up that the victim survivors, the children, the adult children, are just selling themselves out, letting themselves be made into objects of scorn, contempt, and pity.

    Family conflict should be handled in a court room. And when there are minor children involved, suspected cases of child abuse, including emotional abuse, must be reported so that they can be handled by the juvenile dependency court. Failure to report is a felony. We must all work together to see to it that these laws are enforced, and violators are prosecuted. And Scandinavia certainly had been a leader in child protection.

    Gregory Bateson, Virginia Satir, and all of them of that era, they did interesting work. But today people understand that family therapy is for a juvenile, a hostage situation. Unless we are going to continue to allow therapists to be accomplice child abusers, these cases need to be gotten into court. A judge can melt the wax out of a parent’s ears, like no one else ever could.

    And for myself, I helped to put a man into prison for molesting his daughters, and with the full backing of his church. Now, as his case is working its way through the appeals court, I am campaigning to make sure that if he should somehow beat this on a technicality, that they get another jury of 12 and try him again.

    Civil judgments and criminal convictions, not accomplice child abusers with licenses and diploma’s on their office walls.

    And don’t misunderstand me, Family Courts do everything they can to keep families together. Greatly helping them in this is the CASA volunteer program. But if you are doing family therapy with a juvenile, without court oversight, then that is child abuse.

    Nomadic

    We Need An Anti-Mental Health Anti-Recovery Forum:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/to-mary-olsen-open-dialog-t439.html

  • Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Life Coaching, Evangelical Christianity, and the Recovery Movement definitely do serve the needs of Capitalism.

    But Marxism, at least as known so far, does not provide an alternative. By the early 1930’s Wilhelm Reich and those of the Frankfurt School made it clear that The Family, was the problem, and that it must be abolished.

    And this is what Alexandra Kollontai, Lenin’s first Minister of Women’s Affairs, had wanted too.

    http://alphahistory.com/russianrevolution/alexandra-kollontai/

    But by the early 30’s, Moscow issued a directive forbidding any criticism of The Family. So for this reason, our Marxist states are not that much different from Capitalist states.

    Recommended:

    http://faculty.humanities.uci.edu/poster/CTF/

    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Oedipus-Capitalism-Schizophrenia-Penguin-Classics/dp/0143105825/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    Nomadic

    We Need An Anti-Mental Health Anti-Recovery Forum:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • The problem with focusing on spirituality, just like with psychotherapy, is that it becomes a tune-out, an escape, a way of avoiding dealing with the sorts of injustice on which our society is based.

    So where as we should be filing lawsuits, people are instead seeking nirvana.

    So send your clients to my website, and I’ll find them an attorney, so that they can obtain justice and then finally understand all the ways in which they have been used.

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • Let’s pick some specific kinds of actions we can take against the mental health system, like picketing and passing out fliers to encourage lawsuits. Move from talk and senseless argumentation, to taking actions against real people!

    Nomadic

  • And so is psychotherapy the best way to respond to this invented condition known as PPD?

    It could not be, as learning to live within ones own skin and face up to one’s choices are what is required, and that will always mean striking back against injustice and abusers. People stay in denial because they don’t want to have to act.

    Psychotherapy always promotes denial, learning how to be “happy” without striking back.

    We must have our own anti-Mental Health, anti-Recovery Forum

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • Kindred, I think the issue here is not the number of filicides or parricides. Rather the issue is, do we go along with this idea of Post Partum Depression?

    Well, like with all depression, talking about it that way makes it sound like a mental illness, and something which should be corrected by psychotherapy. I do not go along with this at all.

    People are depressed because they lead depressing lives.

    So there are many women and men who would not want to have a child. Is this mental illness, a cause for therapy? No, of course not.

    There are many women and men who will have a child and be very unhappy. Is this a mental illness, or a cause for therapy. I say, absolutely not. But we do need to look at what is going on and protect the child absolutely, while trying to correct what problems we can in the people’s affairs.

    And then, and this is I think emblematic of the middle-class, there are people who will deliberately make sure that they have a child, and then be very unhappy. Mental Illness, cause for therapy, no of course not. We have to treat it just like in the situation above.

    What causes this is the marketing of parenthood, the sentimentalization and romanticiztion, and the selling of the pedagogy manuals.

    We need to organize and fight against Psychotherapy, Psychiatry, Recovery, and Life Coaching.

    People need political consciousness raising, and to become in touch with their feelings and to be able to live Authentic Lives. And I have to say that I believe that Simone de Beauvoir was correct in saying that, “For most women maternity is an inauthentic choice.”

    Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • Families can be subjected to outside stress, and this may be extremely unfair. But sometimes stress helps families pull together.

    But for someone to end up voluntarily or involuntarily in the mental health system, it seems like there must be something which makes them feel that they need it, some feeling of doubt or inadequacy.

    Just to try and better explain it. You could never get me into a pyramid or Ponzi scheme, because I have no interest in getting money that way.

    But made to believe that a psychotherapist might have the answers to why my life has been so hard? Yes, I was susceptible to this. It was completely bogus, all the therapist could do was tell me how to let my abusers win. But I was still taken in.

    The whole thing is a conspiracy to deny the child’s experience.

    https://www.amazon.com/Thou-Shalt-Not-Be-Aware-ebook/dp/B006U1C0VA/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    Nomadic

    Stop collaborating with the Mental Health System and Recovery:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • Kindred, the filicide rate is about 10x what you are quoting. It is about the only FBI stat which is still an under count, because the deaths get written off to natural causes.

    The parricide rate for the entire US is about 200 to 500 per year, with around 2/3 of those being committed by juveniles. Parricide accounts for about 2% of the general homicide rate. It means that in a metro of 1 million persons, it will average about 1 parricide per year. Watching local news for this now, I would say that it is at least this, though this type of crime is grossly under reported on.

    I got to meet this man and shake his hand in front of a court house:
    https://www.amazon.com/When-Child-Kills-Paul-Mones/dp/0671674218/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1488239288&sr=8-3&keywords=paul+mones
    Besides parricide, he also talks about the filicide rate.

    And then this talks about parricide and filicide:
    https://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Families-Dynamics-Intrafamilial-Homicide/dp/0761907599/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1488239392&sr=1-7&keywords=charles+patrick+ewing

    In particular, he talks about parents murdering very small children. And then there is another chapter about parents murdering children a few years older.

    And then at least in some states we have these no questions asked infant drop off centers. Hospitals, Police, and especially Fire Houses. Most people live within a short walk to a Fire House. And they have an interesting graphic for their signs.

    It’s kind of like the logo for this:
    http://www.nationalsafehavenalliance.org/

    http://www.wikihow.com/Drop-Off-an-Unwanted-Baby

    And then I am told that in much of Europe, or at least the UK, they have written into their laws a maternal absolution for homicide for about the first 2 weeks of a child’s life.

    Now, I have to state about C. P. Ewing, he never uses the term Post Partum Depression. And if you were to ask me, I would say that just like all these mental illness conditions, I think we should drop that term.

    Like Peter Breggin says, people are depressed because they lead depressing lives. Usually career and marriage.

    So if we look at it this way, then what is causing this?

    Well, the middle-class family is unlike anything which has ever before existed. People are having children by choice, and they are doing it to enhance their social status, but they are not being honest about it. It’s like everything else about the middle-class, it lives in Bad Faith.


    Bad faith (from French mauvaise foi) is a philosophical concept used by existentialist philosophers Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir to describe the phenomenon where human beings under pressure from social forces adopt false values and disown their innate freedom, hence acting inauthentically. It is closely related to the concepts of self-deception and ressentiment.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith_(existentialism)

    Another way to put it would be to say that people are not living up to their own values, not admitting that they create their own values.

    And then who could ever forget South Carolina’s Susan Smith,
    https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/4955540_f260.jpg

    and her tearful performance?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JLz37EAAow

    All she had to do was drop the kids off with their father and take her car to Cash For Cars, and she could have been on a plane to Europe to be with her rich boyfriend.

    But no she could not do that because she was attached to this Suffering Good Mother identity.

    So black males are being stopped and stopped, all over the eastern half of the country, and with no end in sight. So finally law enforcement recognized that she was attached to her public persona and to being believed. But they saw that there were contradictions in her story, about the timing of a traffic light. And the outcome, someone holding on to the kids this long, was improbable. No traces of the kids, not traces of the car.

    So they told her that they didn’t believe her, and that if they didn’t get some straight answers they were going to call a news conference and tell the whole world that they didn’t believe her. So they asked her, “Where is the car?”

    Finally, “Well, it might be at the bottom of the John D. Lake.”

    About the children who have been murdered, there is nothing we can do. But also understand that for every such case there have got to be at least 1000 more where it doesn’t actually go to murder, but there is still an extremely negative and abusive dynamic in play.

    And it is always the child who will end up being on alcohol, prescription drugs, or street drugs, and it is the child who will end up being further abused in psychiatry, psychotherapy, recovery programs, and evangelical churches. And it is the child who gets a psychiatric or learning disabilities label, or they call it attachment disorder.

    I am not trying to diminish the role of fathers in all of this, not at all. What I really want is for people to understand that the middle-class lives in bad faith, and that those who suffer the most for this are the children. The middle-class family made children into private property, and into the exploited workers, providing a social identity for their parents.

    http://faculty.humanities.uci.edu/poster/CTF/
    Readily available on paper as well.

    Nomadic

    Stop collaborating with Recovery and the Mental Health System. Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/postpartum-depression-honesty-or-more-theapy-t436.html

  • If one lives in a world of injustice and abuse, you don’t ‘Recover’ or ‘Heal’ from that. The injustice is ongoing, every moment of every single day.

    You either find ways to resist and fight back, or you become a collaborator, an Uncle Tom.

    And so the entire concept of Recovery and Healing is simply a way to put the blame back onto the victim.

    And the type of injustice which effects the most people is the exploitation and abuse perpetrated by the middle-class family.

    The middle-class family is unique, like nothing else which has ever existed. People are having children by choice, in order to enhance their social status. But they are not being honest about this. They are not honest about anything because the middle-class lives in bad faith. They don’t admit that they have choices and they don’t live up to their own values. And so the brunt of this is felt by children. In our society, children are the exploited workers, being used to give identity and status to their parents.

    And so when this does not work, it gets turned back on the children. They are the ones who end up seeing psychiatrists and psychotherapists. And they are the ones who end up on drugs, both prescription and street. And they are the ones who get abused day in and day out. But the perpetrators are exonerated because the child gets a disability label. And then the child is the one who will end up seeking salvation in an evangelical church.

    So if these voices are telling you how to fight back, instead of recovering or healing, then these voices already are our allies. Maybe you cannot really do what they are saying, but likely their perspective on the situation is correct.

    Nomadic

    Please join, move from being an Uncle Tom, to Resisting:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • Robert, your prediction depends upon the Survivors of Mental Health, Recovery, and the Middle-Class Family not wising up and learning how to protect themselves:

    1. One psychotherapist, One lawsuit.

    2. Total Non-Compliance under any and all circumstances.

    3. Zero tolerance for pity seeking or Uncle Tomism.

    4. Any Means Necessary, to protect the children of today.

    5. Vigorous Crimes Against Humanity prosecution in the International Courts. Charges can be brought by NGO’s. And local actions to put the mental health system out of business.

    And right now, lets discuss when, where, and how to set up our own forum and then take our first actions.
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/reply-to-robert-berezin-md-t437.html

    Nomadic

  • People need to be their own guides.

    If you go along with the idea that people need psychosis, or need street drugs, then you are also supporting the idea that some people need psychotherapy, psychiatry, and psychiatric medication. So we must reject this, and reject it absolutely.

    Breaking news, plan to build an internment camp / mental hospital for the homeless has been derailed. Local home owners were livid over perceived home price drops and quality of life issues.

    While I don’t really go along with this, I do know that people treated like they are a social menace are going to act so.

    The real parties behind it were not the private philanthropist, they were the non-profit which runs such places, onsite mental health services, and local government which supplied the land. So tis fight is not over.

    We must organize and find ways to fight! And no, telling people that they need psychosis or street drugs is not okay.

    Nomadic

  • Kindred, parents kill their children at a very high rate. Children kill their parents too, but the rate of the latter is only 10% of the former.

    In any event, it all comes from the lies upon which the middle-class family is built. It only exists because it is allowed to exploit and abuse children. In our society, children are the exploited workers, being used to give identity to their parents.

    Psychotherapy is part of the problem, not part of the solution. It is a way of turning the blame back onto the victim, turning their experience of injustice into a medical problem and a self improvement project.

    The problem actually starts with the marketing of parenthood, via the pedagogy manuals:
    https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Sling-Real-Life-Confident-Attachment-ebook/dp/B005FLOF28/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    We need to fight back, but it has to be against the entire Mental Health, Recovery, and Life Coaching Industry. Otherwise we are still promoting parts of the problem. We are still encouraging people to be Uncle Toms.

    Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

    Tom Tomorrow, This Modern World
    http://www.dailykos.com/blog/tom%20tomorrow

  • For a child, a mother’s postpartum depression can be fatal. Whole chapter dedicated to this:

    https://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Families-Dynamics-Intrafamilial-Homicide/dp/0761907580/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1487885166&sr=1-3-fkmr0&keywords=fatal+families+c.+p.+ewing

    The reason this is so common is that the middle-class lives in bad faith. It has children deliberately, but it is people not admitting to themselves that they have choice.

    So what we need is to expose this, not to use psychotherapy to cover it up.

    Nomadic

    Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

  • Prescription drugs work pretty much the same way as street drugs. So if we want to fight against one, we need to also fight against the other. We need people who work to fight injustice, not those who want to ‘recovery’, ‘heal’, or just plain escape from it.

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

    Nomadic

  • What can we risk? What are we risking if we do nothing. We must start opposing Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery, and doing so in public, and by all available means.

    Lets start organizing actions, rather than having senseless debates with those who collaborate with the mental health and recovery system.

    Nomadic

  • Must outlaw all involuntary treatment. Likely an initiative would be the way to do this, as well as trying to oppose any specific cases of involuntary treatment.

    Any “treatment” of juveniles should always be considered involuntary. Must report to juvenile dependency court of face felony prosecution under Child Abuse and Neglect Act. Must be under supervision of court. Otherwise it is just hired child abusers.

    Nomadic

  • Tina, I also commend you for speaking out. But I think the idea of Healing, is completely misplaced. You don’t heal from ongoing injustice. Psychotherapy, Psychiatry, Recovery, and the Middle-Class Family, these are always on going injustice.

    We survivors live in pain, not because we need healing, but because we have zero social standing. And the idea of Psychotherapy and Recovery is to keep it this way. It’s the survivors of abuse, now abusing each other.

    So we need Redress for Wrongs, not Recovery and Religion.

    Nomadic

  • Danny, you are part of “Western Mass Recovery Learning Community”. Recovery is simply a way of further abusing the survivors of abuse. It amounts to asking for pity, or becoming and Uncle Tom.

    We must not go this way, especially since what underlies support for the recovery, mental health, and disabilities movements is the need to use eugenics and social Darwinism to create scape goats.

    So instead we need to fight back. Rather then telling people that they need Recovery, show them how then can fight back against perpetrators. No therapists, but lawyers.

    Nomadic

  • Doing studies to measure people’s “mental states”, is wrong. I hope people refuse to cooperate and find ways to obstruct your future studies.

    If people are depressed, its because they lead depressing lives. So the solution is to solve the problem in their lives. Psychotherapists and life coaches are not going to do this. Political and legal organizing will

    Nomadic

  • Thank you for posting this article. I had not known about The Mighty, and I am glad that I had not.

    I am 100% opposed to Autism Speaks. Like Peter Breggin wrote in Toxic Psychiatry, most of the large autism groups are simply defensive formations of the parents.

    And I do want to see the problematization of children who supposedly have “Autism”, and what goes on at the Judge Rotenberg Center in Massachusetts, and at the Koegel Center in California lead to lawsuits, criminal charges, and prosecutions in the international court.

    And I also oppose the Autism Self Awareness Network, and anything to do with Neuro-Diversity, because they are acting like Autism is real. So they are hence exonerating perpetrators, by accepting something which amounts to original sin.

    So I congratulate you Twihal, for extricating our self from something negative.

    So I know this gets into areas of continuing sensitivity. But we have another article here, where there are links to a web site with discussion of ‘reparations’. This is the only way there will be progress, by holding perpetrators accountable. Without this, it is still just asking for pity.

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/02/crpd-campaign-prohibition/

    So here are my responses to this, and most of all I want to call your attention to my challenges about the idea of affixing disability labels to oneself. And I say this based on the understanding that the reason we have the mental health system, and so much attention to disability issues, is because those behind our economy want to advance the bogus sciences of eugenics and social Darwinism.

    We should be meeting them at the barricades, not doing their jobs for them.

    Everyone is unique, everyone has limitations, everyone has special needs. We have to take care of people and compensate for them, but we should minimize the need for labeling.

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/must-abolish-forced-psychiatric-procedures-t422.html

    Nomadic

    Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • It has been long established, books written about just this, that race is a factor in the psychiatric system. Afro American men were in gross disproportion labeled as schizophrenic. And why would this be surprising, as all that the mental health system ever does is try to make people adapt to living in an unfair world, and without protest.

    So we should not need to be having discussions about this. All we should be trying to do is to eradicate the mental health system, and to incarcerate the practitioners.

    Problems of injustice should be handled in court rooms, and in the political arena, not in therapists’ offices.

    Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • I see this, and their lawyer list, as the current high water mark in Anti-Therapy activism.

    http://website.lineone.net/~vex/How%20Therapists%20Abuse.htm

    Now of course what we really want is for people to see that ALL THERAPY is abusive, as is the very concept of Recovery.

    And we want to be suing parents and overturning disinheritances. But it is easier to start with suing therapists, and attorneys who are saying Good Therapy vs Bad Therapy.

    So send any disgruntled to me, and I’ll do whatever it takes to find them a lawyer. People should be engaging in political and legal activism, not confessing their feelings so that therapists can manipulate them.

    Nomadic

  • I say we start here, get as many therapy and psychiatry clients as possible to sue.

    http://www.wmlawyers.com/Firm-Highlights/Publications/A-Comprehensive-Overview-of-Therapist-Abuse-Litigation-in-California.shtml

    Now yes, eventually we also want them to be suing parents, and getting disinheritance over turned.

    And we also want them to see that not just some therapy is abusive, all of it is, and so they should reject it.

    But at least we have a start in these therapy abuse lawyers.

    So send the clients to me, I’ll enlighten them and then find them an attorney.

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • What Recovery means is that the client agrees to live in an unjust world and abandon all hope of justice.

    So what we should be doing is suing parents. But it is easier to get people to sue their psychotherapists.

    Now eventually we also want people to see that all therapy is inherently abusive, and to reject it.

    But at least here we have a start:
    http://www.wmlawyers.com/Firm-Highlights/Publications/A-Comprehensive-Overview-of-Therapist-Abuse-Litigation-in-California.shtml

    So refer all Mental Health and Recovery Survivors to ME. I’ll find them a lawyer.

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • Dr. Brogan, just refer your clients to my website. I’ll make sure that they get the representation they need.

    http://www.wmlawyers.com/Firm-Highlights/Publications/A-Comprehensive-Overview-of-Therapist-Abuse-Litigation-in-California.shtml

    Now eventually we want to be suing parents. But getting people to sue their therapists is an easier way to start. And eventually we want people to understand that it is not just some therapy which is abusive. All therapy is based on turning problems back on the client. What is considered Recovery is simply getting the client to abandon all quests for justice.

    But at least we have a start, legal redress instead of therapy and recovery.

    And of course it makes no difference whether the abuse known as therapy is coming from a Psychiatrist, a Psychotherapist, a Life Coach, or a Recovery Program Leader. And it makes no difference what sorts of licenses and training that they do or don’t have.

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/

    Nomadic

  • Danny, all Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing are is the survivors of abuse, now abusing each other. I am not sure what your active minds group does, trying to get some sense of it. But of course we should never be encouraging anyone to identify with the mental health system in any way. Rather, we should be fighting to hold the perpetrators accountable, and we should never be seeking or accepting pity.

    The mental health system as we have it now is part of the resurgence of eugenics. It is driven by economics.

    We need to organize and act, following the example of the Black Panthers.

    Stop helping the mental health system, please join, and your posts will never be censored:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • Lynn, all you are saying is that your experience of distress was turned into a medical problem and a self-improvement project.

    You didn’t have the courage to look hard enough to see that your experience was not really of just distress, but of injustice. You allowed them to convince you that the real problem was your own experience, and not the actual injustice and abuse.

    And then Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Life Coaching, and Recovery accomplish nothing, except to keep the victims silent.

    And you wrote a book to promote your views.

    Nomadic

    Stop helping the mental health and recovery system, all it is, is just abuse survivors abusing each other. Please join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • That such medicines are not effective does not surprise me. From my own perspective, seniors do better when they are able to face and engage with the challenges of life.

    When they are tuned out, out of touch with their feeling, out of touch with reality, they go fast.

    The worst, from my perspective, are usually the people who have abused their children.

    And then likewise, any one in Therapy or Recovery, is also going to be harmed.

    Nomadic

  • Welcome Monica,

    Meds are part of the problem. The entire edifice of Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery Movement, and Life Coaching, have got to go. All it amounts to is abusing the survivors of familial abuses and social marginalization. I am glad that you are off of drugs, but it can’t just be that. There must be redresses, otherwise the system will not change. We have to start holding parents accountable, as well as all these sorts of doctors, and government. There must be civil judgments and criminal convictions.

    For everyone, I want to fight an initiative on the ground, local government trying to turn poverty and homelessness into a mental health issue. I want lawyers, the ones who will start the lawsuits, and then let me be the process server.

    Nomadic

  • Robert Pfaff,

    Brother, thank you for your post. You are not alone. The middle-class family exists to exploit and abuse children. The mental health system and the recovery movement exist to back it up.

    Since you have been touched by it, your life and your biography trashed, you should be entitled to redress. These Psychiatrists and Psychotherapists should be incarcerated.

    We the survivors, need to organize and start fighting back. There is no Recovery, that was always a non-sense idea. There is only justice and justice denied. As we organize and fight and vanquish foes, we regain social legitimacy.

    So we need to organize and build our own institutions and take legal and political action to obtain redress. Thank you for you clear thinking and for not supporting the concept of “Recovery”.

    Nomadic

    Please Join, this is not a protected space for Psychiatrists, Psychotherapists and Life Coaches. And your posts will not be censored:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

    Black Panthers at 50.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iLepCstUCs

  • Good article Sera!

    No we should not be labeling Trump or anyone else as mentally ill. Lots of legal reasons to impeach Trump right now.

    But the reason the idea of mental illness persists is because it covers up for the abuses of the middle-class family, and it feeds the bogus science of eugenics, and this supports the unworkable economic system known as capitalism.

    We who have survived the mental health system, recovery, motivationalism, and the middle-class family, should be organizing and fighting back. And the example we should follow is that of the Black Panthers.

    Once people learn to organize this way, they cannot further be subjugated:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZEwco3uTI

    Please Join, your posts will never be censored:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • Therapy and Recovery, I like best how it is explained in:

    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Social-Family-Radical-Thinkers/dp/1781687595

    Therapy and Recovery take your experience of injustice and turn that into a medial problem and a self-improvement project.

    Addiction and mental illness are inseparable from poverty and homelessness. And they are also inseparable from familial scapegoating, ie child abuse.

    So where I live, the Evangelical Christians always have out reaches. What they say amounts to, “Jesus has so much pity for you that he wants to give you a second chance. All he wants from you in return is that you admit that it was your fault for screwing up the first chance.”

    Therapy and Recovery do not give a survivor a biography, because what they amount to is getting the survivor to stop trying for vindication. When a survivor accepts Recovery, they have given up on restoring their place it the world.

    What we should have is LAWYERS:
    https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/02/crpd-campaign-prohibition/

    And we need to understand how the entire concept of mental health, and also addiction and recovery, are tied to eugenics:
    https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/02/sir-robin-murray-collective-mea-culpa/#comment-103236

    So when we encounter someone ( Psychiatrist, Psychotherapist, Recovery Movement, Life Coach ) who makes money by convincing them that they offer some non-redress approach which is the remedy to Psychiatry or Familial Abuses, we should be figuring out how to sue them for fraud. What they are pedaling is a denial system, straight up Uncle Tomism.

    Nomadic

    Stop helping the Mental Health and Self-Improvement Industry. Your posts will not be censored.
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • Again, further reading your web site and the attached documents:

    1. Your calling for reparations is the most important development I have seen ever. This is the way things are going to change, when the psychiatric system, and also parents, are held accountable.

    2. Disability Rights? I don’t really go along with this. Everyone should have rights, and they shouldn’t have to label themselves to get them. And there is no such thing as mental illness.

    3. “Nothing said about us without us”. As I know, this comes from the Autism Self Awareness Network and others calling for Neurodiversity. I don’t go along with it, because they are still pinning to themselves this disability label, and when there really is no evidence that it exists. No reason to need to claim that. Hold abusive parents, abusive schools, and abusive work places accountable. And no labels. Everyone is unique, and beyond a point no one can say why that is.

    Timimi and his co-authors are adamant, there is no such thing as autism.

    https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medicalising-Emotional-Competence/dp/0230545262/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1486593295&sr=1-1&keywords=myth+of+autism+timimi

    I find that if I just read the writings of the so called autistic autism advocates like John Elder Robison and Nick Dubin, they convince me that autism does not exist, because they are living counter examples of everything they say. What they also show me is that they have a compelling belief that everyone is obliged to conform to normative social expectations. And this I see as their real shortcoming.

    There is however something I call Maternal Hatred Syndrome. This is not autism, but its effects are seriously damaging.

    https://www.amazon.com/Act-Early-Against-Autism-Paperback/dp/B015X4IYB4/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1486593432&sr=1-1&keywords=jayne+lytel+act+early

    This Jayne Lytel is a frightening woman. And the hatred she and her husband have for their second son Leo is thick and palpable.

    So lawsuits, against Psychotherapists, Psychiatrists, and Parents, where are the current high water marks? And lets get some more going.

    This is what we should be talking about, not more forms of Therapy, Recovery, Healing, and Life-Coaching.

    Nomadic

  • Craig Wagner, your 27 non-drug options are all based on the same lies.

    https://sites.google.com/site/onwardmentalhealth/27-non-drug-approaches

    You are saying that if you just fix things in the present, then everything is fine. Well that does not restore a survivor’s biography, it does not vindicate them.

    So the lie is, you can live a good life without having to redress historic abusers and others like them. All it amounts to is converting angry abuse survivors into abuse survivors in denial.

    You are either helping abuse survivors to get justice and be vindicated, or you are taking advantage of them by pedaling a dangerous set of lies.

    Nomadic

  • Asking the survivors of abuses to post confessional life stories is wrong. If anyone does that, its just like putting themselves back in that psychotherapist’s office, disclosing personal things, allowing themselves to be manipulated and invalidated. Your therapist is not your friend, they are committed to discouraging you from action.

    People who have survived abuses and have seen through the lies of therapy, recovery, healing, and life-coaching will know that they have to start acting as their own lawyer. The first advice from your lawyer is always going to be “shut up”.

    Disclosing personal affairs should be reserved for Comrades, those who are fighting with you shoulder to shoulder, committed to legal and political redress.

    Nomadic

    We Need To Have An Anti-Mental Health, Anti-Recovery and Self-Improvement Forum. Your Posts Will Not Be Censored:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • waltinseattle, you don’t know anything about me. And you have no business lecturing to me, or telling me what sort of therapy is good for me.

    Psychotherapy is always based on taking advantage of survivors, talking them down. You are tying to do the same thing to me here on this forum, and it is not going to work.

    Nomadic

  • Committed to helping abuse survivors use legal and political means to obtain justice?

    If not, you are simply preying on the survivors of abuse, taking advantage of their emotional neediness, and selling them the fallacy that they can live good lives without redressing the wrongs perpetrated upon them.

    Nomadic

    Help Eradicate The Mental Health System And All of Those Who Support It, Your Posts Will Not Be Censored:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • Smoking is a horrible vice. Quitting it will have countless benefits.

    But, there is no such thing as “Depression”. If people are depressed, they are not suffering from some sort of malady. If they are depressed they are so for perfectly good reason. The social causes of their depressed state should be addressed. Depressions should not be reified into something which exists on its own.

    Nomadic

    Help Eradicate the Mental Health System, Your Posts Will Not Be Censored:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Life Coaching are all bad because it is all predicated on the client abandoning attempts at redress. The only way one regains a biography is by vanquishing foes. I would never be stupid enough to let someone do that to me, turn it all back on me and make me come to live by denial instead of engaging with enemies and prevailing. And you shouldn’t let anyone mess with you like that either, expecting to live in the very small social space which his left, instead of reclaiming your biography and your place in our world.

    Nomadic

  • Discouraged,

    Anyone offering something to ameliorate Psychiatry and childhood abuses, who is not offering a path to redress, reparations, and vindication, is just taking advantages of the survivors of abuse. No difference, Psychotherapy, Life Coaching, or anything else directed at survivors, but without redress. Just more abuse of survivors.

    Only way one gets to have a validated biography again is redress, vanquishing foes.

    Nomadic

  • What Peter Breggin wrote in “Beyond Conflict”, is that Psychiatry was invented to give justification for incarcerating homeless men, who were breaking no law. He is talking about the 1600’s, and he is of course drawing heavily from Foucault.

    Today it still seems to work exactly the same way. The concept of Mental Illness is inseparable from poverty, homelessness, and familial scapegoating.

    Economic problems and child protection failures get converted into bogus claims of mental illness, and these in turn are used to support the resurgence of eugenics. In order to keep our economic system running, it is necessary to have scapegoats, and it is necessary to delegitimate those on the margins.

    And as it looks, the federal Housing First initiative is now getting used to justify building homeless internment camps, and to pressure people into accepting a mental health interpretation.

    And then Psychotherapy, Recovery, Life Coaching, and Healing are pretty much sugar coated versions of the same thing, dealing with social marginalization and abuse by denial. Do anything it takes, except seeking political and legal redress. And the survivors of abuse and marginalization make for an excellent source of profits.

    And then all of these things are merging with Evangelical Christianity, via their outreach ministries and their involvement with local governments. And one of the leaders in this merger is Rick Warren, founder of the Saddle Back Church in Southern California.

    http://hope4mentalhealth.com/

    “Second Chance Grace Place”
    “Everybody needs Recovery”
    around 5:00
    http://mediacenter.saddleback.com/mc/m/4028b

    Recovery has become the new Original Sin. And vast numbers of people listen to Warren and the others in his movement. It is all about turning the blame back onto the victim. Most of the people in these churches have designated scapegoats in their own families, as did Rick and Kay Warren.

    So we need to start responding to Psychiatry, Psychology, Recovery, Life Coaching, and Healing, with lawsuits. Lets build up a list of interested attorneys.

    Nomadic

    We need to form an Anti-Mental Health, Anti-Recovery, Anti-Self-Improvement, Anti-Eugenics forum. Posts will not be censored:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • Tina, upon further reviewing your website, I am most pleased to find strong endorsement for the concept of reparations.

    http://www.chrusp.org/media/AA/AG/chrusp-biz/downloads/254413/Open_Minds_Reparations_article.docx

    This is the way we must proceed. Otherwise it all amounts to just asking for pity. No one has reason to fear us, or to even get out of our way, unless we are demanding reparations and consequences for the perpetrators.

    And you are right to be looking at this in the context of international law. This is the only way we get around backwards US law and get the benefit of principle #2.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_principles#Principle_II

    And as it is not that far back that Germany got itself handed a new Constitution, their law now allows for non-profits to bring international criminal indictments. There are already a couple of prominent Americans who won’t be going to Oktoberfest, ever.

    I mean, so many on this forum are promoting Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Life Coaching as the remedy for Psychiatry. That is about as crazy as if they were promoting such things as the remedy for rape.

    And just what is it that lands people, adults or children, in the Psychiatric System?

    So much of what enables the middle-class family is simply the fact that whereas in other industrialized countries the law makes it very hard to disinherit one’s child, in the United States, what protection we did have was in only in the Civil Law influenced Constitution of Louisiana. And in the mid-90’s, even that was eliminated.

    So in British Columbia, the remedy for the child exploitation and abuses of the middle-class family is found simply by calling Trevor Todd Esq. in Vancouver.

    http://disinherited.com/dysfunctional-families/

    And then most of Europe, Latin America and increasingly the Pacific Rim, follow Civil Law conventions, where you don’t even need a lawyer to solve the problem.

    But in the United States, the survivors live in silence, as they are then shunted into Therapy, Recovery, Life Coaching, Healing, and Evangelical Christianity, and while todays children continue to be exploited and abused in very similar ways.

    And as I have seen first hand, even in completely clear cut cases of paternal sexual abuse, getting a jury to convict can be extremely difficult, because our culture still does not understand that the way to make familial child abuse stop is to enforce the law. People still want to turn it back on the child, and so we have lots and lots of psychotherapists and recovery groups.

    I do have to raise one issue about your website. You have some material about stopping disability profiling, and we need to do this. But your website talks about disability rights and “Users of Psychiatry”. I would discourage this. Instead I would suggest speaking to “Survivors of the Mental Health System”. I would not encourage anyone to use any part of the Mental Health System or to identify with it in anyway. And though I know this is controversial, I would discourage the use of any sort of disability label, as we are engaging with an enemy, and so we must maintain a wall of privacy and anonymity. None of us should need to have any disability indicator pinned to our lapels. And so then when it comes to disability benefits, I know this is complex, but I believe that we should take care of everybody at all times, without expecting those in need to claim a disability.

    And what we really need is a nationwide network of Anti-Mental Health Attorneys. At home today I am strategizing for how to oppose yet another government, non-profit, and philanthropical program designed to advance eugenics arguments and turn economic problems into mental health problems. I know that I must never ask for pity on behalf of those effected. What I really need is a list of local attorneys who are committed to suing the responsible institutions and individuals. Having that would make a huge difference, and before things get any worse. Most people won’t understand Anti-Mental Health arguments. But they do understand lawsuits and process servers. People who stand up for themselves and others are respected. People who ask for pity, get used as visible scapegoats, and then they get plowed under.

    Thank you for your work and for your clear headedness.

    Nomadic

    We need to organize an Anti-Mental Health, Anti-Recovery, Anti-Eugenics Forum. Please join! Your posts will not be censored.
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • Oldhead is hitting the nail right on the head here, “putting “schizophrenia” in quotes yet referring to “psychosis” as though it’s a real disease”.

    Lloyd Ross, I do appreciate some of the work you have done with Daniel Macker. But beyond that I still have to take exception.

    People will feel extreme things and go into extreme states when their ability to live is seriously threatened. And this is happening when they are socially marginalized. Social marginalization. as caused by the middle-class family and its built in child abuses, and by the mental health system and our economic system, are the causes of the bogus concept known as “mental illness”. There is no moral or medical problem.

    And so you will never find a remedy within the mental health system, not Psychiatry, not Psychotherapy, and not anything which turns the blame back on the victim. Not in Recovery, not in Life Coaching, not in Healing, and not in Evangelical Religion. Every bit of it is just abusing survivors, because they are the only ones who don’t protect themselves.

    The reason our society wants to put people into the Mental Health System and into Recovery Programs, is because our need for basic labor is much less, but our need to scapegoats is as high as ever. So what this amounts to is the resurgence of the bogus science of eugenics.

    So every time one of us tries to assure people that the mentally ill can be rendered non-violent, we are aiding the in the propagation of the bogus science. Everyone knows that if you keep jabbing at an animal with a stick for long enough, then something is going to happen. But most of those considered mentally ill have been jabbed at for years and years, and they just become more and more passive. We must never contribute to this, we must never become Uncle Tom’s.

    The most important areas to push are:

    1. Total non-compliance, total defiance of all aspects of the mental health, psychotherapy, recovery system.

    2. Political actions, not asking for pity, but going on the offensive against abusive parents and all facets of the mental health system.

    3. Using every opportunity available, and every means available, to protect the children of today from the kinds of exploitation and abuse which the middle class family is built on. That we still fail to do this, only adds to the bogus eugenics argument.

    4. An organized campaign to get these matters settled in the civil and probate courts, not in the psychotherapist’s office or the recovery group meeting.

    Extreme states are a normal part of life, something sought after by religious mystics, not something which indicates a medical or moral problem.

    People resist seeing what must be obvious to them, simply because they don’t want to face their own pain. That pain is not just in the specific abuses endured. The larger part of it is in how still today, our society vindicates the perpetrators and puts the blame entirely on the victim.

    Psychotherapy is a denial system, and it serves the needs of the therapists and the abusers, and no one else. The only way we can change this bleak picture is for we the survivors to organize and take confrontational public actions.

    As I am writing this to you, I am engaging with local politicos who are actively working to further turn economic and child abuse problems, into mental health problems. So we must act, and act in public and in collectivity.

    Nomadic

    We need to have necessary discussions in order to build an Anti-Psychiatry forum. As such there will be no censorship of these discussions, Please Join:
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  • Capitalism has always depended on having visible scapegoats. We used to get them in the immigrants and racial minorities who did low wage labor and slave labor. Letting people see this, maintained work force discipline. And this is why welfare has always been designed to humiliate and regulate, rather than provide for needs.

    But today, much less labor is needed. So instead we have the mental health system which takes the scapegoats of the middle-class family and progressively turns them into basket cases. This creates jobs, in caring for these basket cases. But it also provides that same visible reminder to people as to why they must not step out of line.

    So we must be opposing this. We should not worry if people think that the ‘mentally ill’ are dangerous. We should not worry if sometimes the ‘mentally ill’ really are dangerous. If you keep jabbing at an animal with a stick, something is going to happen. And those who have been subjected to the mental health system have already been denied any social standing, and for a very long time.

    So we should not worry if people make movies playing to stereotypes about psychopathic killers. That is not important. And trying convince people not to believe the stereotypes is worthless, and it does amount to asking for pity on behalf of the ‘mentally ill’, homeless, and convicts. We should not do this.

    What we should be doing it teaching your total non-compliance. We should be demonstrating this. We should also be filing lawsuits over child abuse and mental health system abuse. These are the ways we actually change things.

    And we should be organizing to show that the ‘mentally ill’ are not going to be basket cases, but are going to stand up for themselves. Total non-compliance is the first step in standing up for ourselves.

    Where I live they are planning to build a homeless community which is very much like a Concentration Camp and Mental Hospital. The objective is to get poor people to accept a mental health interpretation.

    They are taking economic problems and high housing costs, and turning these into mental health issues.

    Providing a protected space for Psychiatrists, Psychotherapists, Life Coaches, and Recovery Program leaders to try and justify how they take advantage of the survivors of abuses, but without doing anything to help them get legal redress, is wrong.

    Nomadic

  • In saying that people are non-violent you are saying that it is okay to continue to abuse them, and you are feeding into the eugenics argument, which though bogus, says that these people are not fit to live.

    People misunderstand Gandhi, and they misunderstand Jesus. And one who definitely misunderstood was Martin Luther King Jr.

    No one lives strictly by non-violence. That is just a situational tactic, and one usually taken when there are others poised for extreme violence. Gandhi and Jesus both aggravated tensions and brought things to the very brink of extreme violence. MLK did not understand this, he made non-violence into a way of life.

    If you keep jabbing at an animal with a stick for long enough, something is going to happen.

    People who stand up for themselves are treated with respect. But those who ask for pity, get what they ask for, along with scorn and contempt.

    The model to follow is your total non-compliance, along with direct opposition in all means imaginable.

    300 Americans per year kill one or both parents. While we should not encourage this, we should still stand with the perpetrators because everyone knows the sorts of things which must underlie it.

    And we must use EVERY MEANS AVAILABLE to protect the children of today from being exploited and abused in the middle-class family.

    Never does an open ended pledge of non-violence help, it makes us into continuing victims.

    Nomadic

  • Follow up reply:

    Thing is usually what gets someone into the psychiatric system is that they are angry. People pick up on this. But they have good reason to be angry. So the psychiatric system is like what police to do to people, hand cuff them to a table in an interrogation room, and then talk them down. That is all psychiatry and psychotherapy are. And so I am glad that you practiced total non-compliance.

    What we need to do is organize and teach, so that the angry can fight back, but to it effectively, instead of in ways which just get themselves into trouble and accomplish nothing.

    Most of us were not able to do this when we were children. And today’s children can’t do it either. But as adults we should be organizing and fighting back. Mostly this means the criminal and civil courts, but it could go beyond this, and we must also show that we will stop at nothing to defend the children of today.

    Nomadic

  • Things will change, not by a tricky balancing act, but when instead of stuffing, and instead of being passive, people respond with counter accusations and indictments.

    We cannot tell people that they need to do this, but people who are still in touch with their anger will want to do it. So the way to lead is by example.

    And likewise if you or I are still in touch with our anger, we will want redress. The reason people stuff this is that they see it as out of reach, and also because the real pain is not in the acts of abuse, it is in all the ways our society condones it, and turns it against the victim.

    So the most important thing is to NEVER endorse Recovery, Pacifism, or Passivity. Never say anything which vindicates the idea that the so called ‘mentally ill’ or those in ‘recovery’ have any innate problem, or would be wrong in acting to defend themselves.

    Nomadic

    Learn to fight back, not to provide cover for psychiatrists, psychotherapists, or the recovery movement. Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • Excellent article Noel.

    The mental health system, psychiatry and psychotherapy, are mostly just ways of making a child into the family scapegoat.

    And even if there is no contact with it before adulthood, the survivor is still carrying the marks of the childhood abuses when they take themselves to the doctor. They still believe that there is something wrong with them. And this is not going to change until we survivors start to organize, and instead of seeking pity, start fighting back.

    Move from talk and a protected space for psychiatrists and psychotherapists, to Anti-Psychiatry and Anti-Recovery. Posts will not be censored:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • Yes, we must prohibit all forced psychiatric procedures. I won’t even call them treatments. If I were to call them anything, it would be Crimes Against Humanity.

    I would just like to add a few other points:

    1. Any procedures done on juveniles should always be considered as forced. A juvenile should not be considered able to consent. So no drugs ever given to juveniles.

    2. Subjecting a juvenile to psychotherapy or family counseling, is also non-consensual. If a therapist is doing sessions with a juvenile, just the fact that the juvenile is in their office suggests a strong possibility of ongoing child abuse. Enforce the Child Abuse and Neglect Act as written. Failure to report, in say a case of suspected emotional child abuse, is a felony.

    So what this means is that child therapy procedures will end up under the authority of the juvenile dependency court. And this indeed is the only way to make it safe. The therapist is a party hired by the parents, and as we have seen on this forum, these guys market their services to the parents by putting out their doctrine that the parents are “loving”. So then, therapy is just more emotional child abuse.

    3. In fighting to abolish forced procedures, we must not do so by further denigrating those being subjected to them. We must not ask for pity on their behalf. We must not be Uncle Toms. So in particular we must never endorse Psychotherapy, Life Coaching, Recovery, or Healing. All these things do is just further put the blame on the victim. We must not do this. And it is over this issue that I will never have anything to do with Mind Freedom.

    And thank you Tina for posting here. I see your ‘Esq’, just what we need! We need lawyers, not psychotherapists, psychiatrists, life coaches, or recovery program leaders.

    http://www.chrusp.org/

    Nomadic

    We need to organize an Anti-Mental Health and Anti-Recovery Forum. Reclaiming our social and civil standing will not happen in private restricted spaces, it requires public political contests and open debate. So no posts will be censored as the conversation unfolds. Please Join:
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  • I commend Frank B. Eugenics started in the US. In Mein Kampf, Hitler holds up California mandatory sterilization laws as the example to follow.

    Read about that here:
    https://www.amazon.com/Pink-Triangle-Nazi-Against-Homosexuals/dp/0805006001/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1486073272&sr=8-1&keywords=pink+triangle

    Actions against homosexuals and the so called mentally ill developed into the much larger scale actions against Jews.

    We are not killing so called schizophrenics, because the times are different. We are in the information age, not the industrial age. We don’t need much in terms of manual labor anymore. So we cannot use low wage laborers as a symbol to keep workers in line any more.

    Instead we take those who are the scapegoats of the middle class family. We don’t hold the parents accountable, we hold the child responsible and feed them into the psychiatric and recovery systems and convince them that they have a defect and that they are responsible for their own problems.

    So we don’t need low wage labor. We don’t need corpses either. But more than ever we need basket cases. For one thing they create jobs. For another, they remind people what could happen to them if they step out of line, question authority, or even ask for living wages.

    And then giving Psychiatrists, Psychotherapists, Life Coaches, and Recovery Program Leaders a protected space lets them each make the bogus claim that they are part of the solution instead of the problem. This helps propagate the mental health system.

    We need to organize an Anti-Mental Health and Anti-Recovery Forum. Reclaiming our social and civil standing will not happen in private restricted spaces, it requires public political contests and open debate. So no posts will be censored as the conversation unfolds. Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

    Nomadic

  • I agree that people are suffering, and that they do need support. Where I live the streets are teaming with victims of the mental health and recovery systems, and of familial abuses and exploitation.

    And then there are plans to build something like a concentration camp for the homeless, and it is designed to make people accept a mental illness interpretation, and it is to have these onsite mental health services. So the situation if bleak.

    So I don’t think anyone should ever be turned out onto the street. But this does often happen. But nor should anyone ever be pressed to accept a recovery or mental illness interpretation of their own life. Recovery is just another version of sin and salvation, and mental health is too.

    Some are talking about Citizenship Pay, or an economic floor. This is necessary and it has to happen.

    https://www.amazon.com/Raising-Floor-Universal-Economy-American/dp/1610396251/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485992890&sr=8-1&keywords=raising+the+economic+floor

    I think the most important thing though is just for those labeled as mentally ill to start standing up for themselves. Some won’t be able to, but some will. Once someone realizes that they can be part of the solution, and that they are needed to do this, then I believe things change. The most important thing is that they come to see how they are abuse and exploitation survivors.

    I will tell you that for myself, this has enabled me to start re-educating myself. It has shown me that I am worthy and deserving of the investment.

    So we should stop in anyway stigmatizing the survivors. No therapy, recovery, or life coaching. Instead these are those who have been abused and marginalized. Now they are learning to fight back and finding ways to claim justice.

    And once one understands that they are fighting back against pervasive injustice, the first thing they do is stop discussing their affairs. After all, these are issues which will be settled in a court room.

    So there should never be any pledges to non-violence. If you jab at an animal with a stick for long enough, then something is going to happen. These abuse survivors have been jabbed at with sticks for a very long time. The fact that nothing happens guarantees that they will continue to be used as scapegoats.

    And then we should be tracking court cases. We must find ways to sue parents and to prevent dis-inheritance.

    And we must stop pretending to be politically neutral. This is entirely political. The middle-class family was invented to exploit and abuse children. One person on MIA was quoting Margaret Thatcher at me. We have to engage with this. And the main reason people want the survivors to be passive and powerless, is because Capitalism needs visible scapegoats, to support the eugenics argument. And the fact instead of standing up for themselves, that they instead seek solace with their therapists only adds to the bogus eugenics arguments.

    Who has been able to hold parents accountable in court, where are the high water mark cases, and which lawyers are trying to do these things?

    And then we should be protesting in front of county hospitals and in front of the offices of psychotherapists. And of course those who put children on drugs should be prosecuted in international court for crimes against humanity. Other countries already have the Nuremberg inspired legal structures in place to do these international prosecutions. These doctors deserve what Josef Mengele had coming.

    In letting Psychiatrists and Psychotherapists have a protected space to post in, the mental health system is being promoted. They each get to proclaim how they are part of the solution and not part of the problem.

    And then the same goes for Life Coaches and Recovery Movement Promoters. Not one of these people is promoting redress or helping the survivors to stand up for themselves and fight back. They are still turning it all back on the survivors.

    We need to organize an Anti-Mental Health and Anti-Recovery forum, and then take some actions.

    Nomadic

    Please Join:
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  • By providing a protected space for Psychiatrists and Psychotherapists to post, they get to proclaim that they are part of the solution and not part of the problem. So this forum is encouraging the mental health system and promoting the idea that some people are mentally ill.

    And then by providing the same sort of protection for Recovery Movement leaders, Life Coaches, and others committed to this idea that the “mentally ill” must be portrayed as non-dangerous, this forum encourages the bogus eugenic argument that the “mentally ill” are not fit to live.

    Whereas instead, the best thing possible if for some of those who have been labeled as mentally ill to realize that they are survivors of familial abuses and mental health system abuses and to find ways to organize and fight back.

    It was because free blacks were so offended by Harriet Beecher-Stows protagonist that they demanded to be able to serve in the Militia of Massachusetts and also used violence to try to stop the renditioning of suspected fugitive slaves. They knew that they must not accept the Uncle Tom mantle.

    Nomadic

    We must organize an Anti-Mental Health and Anti-Recovery forum. Taking back our social and civil standing will not happen in the protected space of a therapist. It means engaging in public conflict. So all POV’s will be welcomed as posts will not be censored. Please Join:
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  • waltinseattle , Don’t quote Margaret Thatcher to me. That goes no where. Our SOCIETY, meaning our collective or aggregate culture, takes those who seem to have no place in the world, the Survivors of the Middle-Class Family, and labels them as Mentally Ill.

    This is nothing more than a second layer of abuse, very much like what anti-rape activists have long categorized as second rape, acting like the victim is wrong or has something wrong with them.

    And people are made into malingerers by our mental health system, because if not drugs, then it will be talk therapy, recovery, or life coaching. But never justice for the survivors of abuse. Our Mental Health System, and therapy and recovery, exist to convince people that they have something wrong with them. Our society no longer needs very much labor. But our Capitalist system all the more needs scapegoats.

    Here, look at a more extensive post I recently made.
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/not-asking-for-pity-t420.html

    Nomadic

    We Need To Discuss How To Make An Anti-Mental Health and Anti-Recovery Forum. I Offer This As A Safe Place For These Discussions. Reclaiming our social standing will never happen in the office of a Therapist or Life Coach, or in a Recovery Group either. It has to happen out in the open, and this means engaging in open conflict. So there will be no moderation of posts; all views will be welcomed. Please Join:
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  • People go into psychotherapy, psychiatry, and life coaching because there is no redress. You are only facing your pain when you are trying to find redress. Then you see how the whole society sides with the parents and The Family, instead of with the child.

    So when you become a psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, or a life coach, then you get to abuse other abuse survivors and you get to keep your own denial systems in tact.

    Of course I am here extrapolating from the works of Alice Miller, and when she was at her best.

    Nomadic

  • But why would anyone ever want to deal with their experiences of distress, by any kind of psychotherapy?

    A woman goes to a police station to report that she was raped. What she hears is,

    “Well we can offer you the options of chemical or psychological therapy. We can even offer you life coaching. You should be happy about this because not too many years back we used to try and turn the blame back on the victim. And when the victim is a child suffering from familial abuse, we still always try to turn it back on them. But when it is an adult victim, we try to offer them a medical route or a self improvement route. This way we make sure that there will never be any reduction in the number of rapes.”

    Nomadic

    Stop supporting the mental health system. All it is, is just more abuse for survivors of abuse. Please Join:
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  • “Theresa May, Prime Minister, launched a package of measures to improve mental health across the UK.”

    Well already this is wrong, psychiatric policing, acting like there is such a thing as mental illness.

    RESIST, FIGHT BACK!

    If people feel distress, its because they are the victims of social injustice. Punish the perpetrators, not the victims.


    Hardly any of the ‘symptoms’ of psychological distress may correctly be seen as medical matters. The so-called psychiatric ‘disorders’ are nothing to do with faulty biology, nor indeed are they the outcome of individual moral weakness or other personal failing. They are the creation of the social world in which we live, and that world is structured by power.
    Social power may be defined as the means of obtaining security or advantage, and it will be exercised within any given society in a variety of forms: coercive (force), economic (money power) and ideological (the control of meaning). Power is the dynamic which keeps the social world in motion. It may be used for good or for ill.
    One cannot hope to understand the phenomena of psychological distress, nor begin to think what can be done about them, without an analysis of how power is distributed and exercised within society. Such an understanding is the focus of this web-site.

    http://www.davidsmail.info/introfra.htm

    Nomadic

    Stop Supporting the Mental Health Industry, Please Join:
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  • I wouldn’t say that psychiatry is defined by malpractice, because that implies that there must be such a thing as non-malpractice. But I agree with oldhead that there should be litigation.

    Actually, the way to do it is Crimes Against Humanity prosecution in the International Court. That gets it completely around US law.

    At this time I would like to acknowledge the supreme contribution on this thread of Oldhead, Frank B, and Julie. We have had our differences, but this is to be expected. The most important thing is to stop more people from being abused by Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and the Recovery Movement. We may differ in our approaches and interpretations, but at least people are speaking out.

    Nomadic

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  • Anything which turns it back on the victim, is wrong. And psychotherapy is always based on that, the victim is to change, and no one else is to be held accountable.

    Imagine if a woman went to a police station to tell them that she had been raped, and what she heard was, “We offer humanistic trauma informed approaches which validate experience and provide people with a safe context in which to tell their stories.”

    This validating of experience is bogus, it is just a way of turning it back onto the victim. And it is done in order to protect people’s denial systems, like therapists’ denial systems.

    “The practice of psychotherapy is wrong because it is profiting off of another person’s misery.”
    https://www.amazon.com/Against-Therapy-Emotional-Tyranny-Psychological-ebook/dp/B008KPZRDW/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    Have MIA authors ever actually listened to a political activist, or do all you folks know how to do is promote psychotherapy, recovery, and healing, and to do it by making appeals to pity?

    Letitia James
    https://www.democracynow.org/2017/1/26/thousands_rally_in_nyc_to_protest

    Nomadic

    Stop being an Uncle Tom, and submitting to the mental health, psychotherapy, and recovery system. We need to organize and fight back:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

  • Why are there drug pushers on this forum? All we need to know are the proper procedures for safe disposal. If people are acting like these drugs might be ingested, then they are still taking the view that the drugs are helpful and that mental illness is real.

    Nomadic

    Stop Collaborating With the Mental Health System:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

  • Why are we even worrying about such a thing? And who decides who is mentally ill and hence to be scanned?

    Why aren’t we simply standing up for those who have been abused and marginalized, instead of playing footsie with the mental health system and debating them on their own turf?

    Why do we even worry about something like mental illness, given that it is obviously bogus and just a way to further abuse the survivors of abuse.

    Question to MIA and it’s Authors, have you ever listened to a political activist?
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/ever-listened-to-a-political-activist-t414.html

    Nomadic

  • Mental illness diagnoses exist because our society needs scapegoats, it needs people it can marginalize, as there is an ever shrinking labor market.

    Lots of people are completely locked out of the labor market. And this is only going to be increasing.

    Welfare money is intended to regulate the poor, not to provide for their needs. But we need to have it. So Citizenship Pay would seem to be the only answer.

    And like I’ve been trying to say, if someone has been treated with dignity and respect and allowed to develop and apply their abilities, then the chances that they will be one of those shut out are much lower. So if you see people who’s lives have fallen apart, look to their parents and hold the parents financially accountable. The US is just about the only industrialized country which allows one to disinherit their child. We must change this, because it legitimates child abuse.

    Capitalism has always depended upon having scapegoats. We used to get these in the immigrants and racial minorities who did low wage labor and slave labor.

    But today there is far less need for any kind of labor. So today Capitalism gets its scapegoats directly from the middle-class family. And most middle-class child abuse involves doctors of one type or another. So the scapegoating involves the fallacies of mental illness, or things like Autism, Aspergers, ADHD, or Eating Disorders. What this is, is the resurgence of the bogus sciences of Social Darwinism and Eugenics.

    We must put these doctors out of action. Crimes Against Humanity prosecution would be best. Other counties have the laws which will facilitate such prosecution, according to Nuremberg precedents. And then we must hold the parents financially accountable, as this is the only language they will ever understand. After all, the only reason they even had children in the first place was just to gain social status.

    Nomadic

    Move from passive collaboration with injustice, to active opposition, Please Join:
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  • Those of us who have skills and do real work, we are always at risk for being turned into equipment by the financial sector parasites. So we have a common interest with all workers. And it goes beyond this, because with less labor being needed, our society also gets scape goats now from those directed into the mental health system, or getting labeled with learning disabilities. All of this stuff is bogus, just white coats helping parents to abuse their children. And it constitutes the re-emergence of the bogus sciences of Eugenics and Social Darwinism. So with all of these oppressed people we have a natural affinity.

    Pledges of non-violence only amount to appeals to pity, and they strengthen those who make the bogus eugenic arguments. So only when we are organized and when we demonstrate routinely that we use All Available Means to protect ourselves and each other, will there be a modicum of safety and stability.

    Nomadic

    Stop collaborating with Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and the Recovery Movement. Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

  • R.D. Laing wrote his stuff a long time ago, before the rise of the Recovery Movement and the proliferation of Psychotherapy, or the merger of these things with Evangelical Christianity. There was also a line R.D. Laing was unwilling to cross over, holding the perpetrator parents accountable. He did the best he could, but that only went so far.

    So this far out, I don’t think it right to be advancing any kind of Recovery Program, because this exonerates perpetrators and still works to make people believe that they themselves are the problem.

    Nomadic

    Stop collaborating with Psychiatry, Psychotherapy and Recovery. Please Join:
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  • We should never have any programs which press people to accept a mental health interpretation of their own life. That would always be wrong, and would always be legitimate cause for a lawsuit.

    “To separate the deserving from the undeserving… and to do so by creating a stigma attached to those they consider undeserving. It is very similar to Psychiatry. The moment you introduce Psychiatry, remember Michel Foucault, and the story about the madhouse, you create a narrative of reason and unreason, you create a power structure. The person who has the certificate to be the Psychiatrist decides who is sane and who has the right to be a free citizen.”

    Yanis Varoufakis: Basic Income is a Necessity
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvgdtF3y0Ss

    Nomadic

    Stop collaborating with the mental health system, stop being an Uncle Tom. Please join and move from nonsense talk to action:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

  • The idea that there is such a thing as mental illness is bogus. But it is also bogus to believe that problems are solved via therapy, recovery, or healing. Rather, we need to redress wrongs, to obtain justice. In the vast majority of situations it comes down to the abuses characteristic of the middle-class family. And this is redressed in court, not the therapist’s office.

    Nomadic

  • Yes, but the last thing people who have survived abuses need is Therapy, Recovery, or Healing. Even talk about such is just more abuse, Second Rape.

    If people feel distress, it is because their social and civil standing has been voided. You don’t remedy that in the doctor’s office.

    You remedy that be engaging in principled conflict. Often this will be in court rooms.

    Therapy, Recovery, and Healing are not the remedies for Psychiatry, they are just another layer of abuse. And so I proudly hold up my middle-finger to anyone who promotes such.

    Nomadic

    Move from pointless talk, to action. Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/need-lawyers-t412.html

  • I think the most important new area to look into is lawyers. People need to be filing strategic lawsuits, because tort law is mostly just case precedent. In a civilized society, you can’t solve disputes by violence. But you can’t solve them in a Psychotherapist’s Office either. You solve disputes in the Civil and Probate Courts. So people need lists of public interest minded attorneys, and they need to understand where the current high water marks are.

    What they don’t need is talk about Therapy, Recovery and Healing, because all that amounts to is turning people’s problems back against them and trying to convince them that their problems originate inside their own heads. Showing any such support then is always also a support for Psychiatry, and the next newest drug, and the sometimes need for forced treatment.

    There is a new field of litigation, “Psychotherapist Abuse”. So while we should be opposing all Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, this is still a step forwards. So we should be following all such progress.

    Likewise we need to be suing parents, because all the mental health system does is cover up for child abuse. It always seems to start by the “othering” of a child.

    And then in some places now they are talking about building homeless shelters out of shipping containers and having on site mental health services. Concentration Camps / Mental Hospitals!

    In the US:

    Dysfunctional Family -> Therapy, Recovery, Healing, Getting Saved

    In British Columbia:

    Dysfunctional Family -> Lawyer


    The bottom line with all dysfunctional families is that such abuse and neglect inhibit the development of healthy adults with healthy relationships. As adults, such people often have difficulty in judging and trusting others and themselves. They often experience difficulties in their workplace, in their relationships and with their very identities.

    What is more, in the world of the estate litigation, they are often disinherited.

    http://disinherited.com/dysfunctional-families/

    Nomadic

  • Rebel, I agree with you. What it really is is the middle-class family. Unlike anything which has ever existed. More than anything else, it comes down to people having children by choice, instead of it just happening. And they do this to increase their social status, while the commercial sector propagates sentimentality.

    The sell pedagogy manual after pedagogy manual, all instructions on how to use children, while saying it is for the good of the child.

    The middle-class lives in bad faith, people do not live up to their own values, they do not admit that they have choices. And the people this falls upon are the children. Today, children are the exploited workers, being used to provide social identity for their parents.

    And when there is conflict, call in the psychiatrists and Psychotherapists.

    We need to be solving these problems in courts of law, starting with a prohibition on disinheriting ones child, as the rest of the industrialized world has.

    Nomadic

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  • If someone is severely distressed, then there must be some reason for that.

    If I sit on a tack, I will feel pain. Do I want to remove the tack, or do I want psychiatric drugs and psychotherapy to make me feel better?

    Obviously many people are opting for the latter.

    Nomadic

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  • Lots of people are still in the system. And most of the people who have lived the hardest of lives are merely the survivors of familial child abuse. But this is kept hidden because Psychotherapy, Psychiatry, and the Recovery Movement are designed to make people believe that it is they who are the problem.

    What you read on this board is just talk, regrettably. When you start seeing parents getting sued and doctors getting prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity, now that will be a different situation.

    Nomadic

  • Can you tell me any reason why involvement with any study like this should not be construed as Crimes Against Humanity, and prosecuted as such in the International Court? Completely bogus medical procedures.

    Nuremberg Principle #2
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_principles#Principle_II

    Nomadic

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

  • You are still talking as though mental illness is real. Maybe not schizophrenia, but these extreme states, you are still looking at them as something to be Healed or Recovered from. So I cannot go along with you or your article.

    The way through ordeals is forwards, not backwards. Healing and Recovery are attempts to avoid and deny, by moving backwards.

    Nomadic

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

  • Yes, thank you for this article. I had already noticed that it varies across the country, how strongly people are committed to the concept of mental illness. Mostly I think it just comes down to their commitment to social conformity.

    As I see it, all the concept of mental illness does is marginalize people, and mostly it is to cover up for familial child abuse.

    Thanks,
    Nomadic

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

  • Yes, we must drop the idea of disorder or mental illness. But we also must drop the ideas of Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing. These too are ways that the survivors of abuse decide not to face their own feelings, and instead to abuse other survivors. Sometimes it is for profit too.

    Happy New Year!

    Nomadic

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  • I want most of the things which Bonnie wants. And I do believe that when parents are open and honest about their own failings, that there should be outside support.

    But I also want:

    1. Taking down a Psychiatrist, criminal case or large civil suit.

    2. Taking down a Psychotherapist, criminal case or large civil suit.

    3. Unhorsing a Religious Recovery or Mental Health Program, law enforcement intervention.

    4. Law suit against County Mental Health or Social Services.

    5. Criminal case against Abusive Parent(s).

    6. Law suit or estate challenge against Abusive Parent(s).

    Now who is with me on these?

    If we don’t at least try, then we are yet more of the Survivors who have decided that they can avoid their own pain, and sometimes even earn a living, by abusing other Survivors.

    Nomadic

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  • Bonnie, I like your drive and determination, and I agree with most of what you have written.

    I do think we all need to move from debating, to action. It is very rare to get a group of people to agree on all facets of an issue. But that is not really necessary. All we need are people who can agree on some narrowly defined courses of action. But right now I am not seeing that.

    As far was where you and I differ, in one of your earlier articles you distance anti-psychiatry from Laing and Estherson’s “Sanity, Madness, and the Family”. Well I think that is a mistake. That is a towering work and it is just as important as Politics of Experience. And then likewise with D. G. Cooper’s “Death of the Family”. As I see it, that is the prototype for Deleuze and Guattari’s “Anti-Oedipus”. It is every bit as important as Cooper’s “Psychiatry and Anti-Psychiatry”.

    And then you say you want support for families. I think you are projecting your own bias onto these situations. The Family is the altar we use to sacrifice children on, just like with Isaac and the Daughter of Jephthah. You show me someone who’s life has revolved around the mental health system, maybe around street drugs and alcohol too, and maybe around prison, poverty, and homelessness. You show me such a person and I’ll show you someone who would be doing very well if only their parent(s) had wanted them to be.

    I say it is wrong to try and look at this all from a Libertarian Anti-Government perspective, because all that does is support property rights, and this is where the problem starts.

    You are right though, very right to compare the situation to U.S. Slavery, despite the views of some other MIA Authors. But it is not really psychiatry which makes it like slavery, it is The Family, the middle-class family, that which creates this problem, makes children into property.

    So while the government is indeed evil, of the main manifestations of this is that it backs up and draws power from, the middle-class family.

    Nomadic

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

  • Don, can you show me any of these peer support networks that are fighting for Redress, holding parents and other abusers responsible? Total number of years of sentences? Total dollar amount of civil judgments?

    Or are they all intoxicated on that denial system known as Live and Let Live, while they administer Therapy, Recovery, and Healing upon their peers?

    Redress, that is the key difference. Otherwise the whole thing is just another denial system, as the victims further victimize each other.

    Nomadic

  • It still blows my mind that people refuse to see what should be obvious, that fact that people who end up in the mental health system and get labeled and get further incapacitated, are simply living in accord with the attitude their parents had towards them. So it is the parents who should be held accountable. Probably not by incarceration, but financially accountable.

    And then the Psychotherapists and Life Coaches, their job is to keep people stuck in the fog.

    I am blown away that people still refuse to see his.

    Nomadic

  • Yes, we must outlaw all forced treatment.

    But having said this, understand that most treatment of children is not really voluntary. Lots of social programs include talk sessions which are like mental health treatment, and they are not really voluntary.

    Most therapy is voluntary, and people don’t understand that they are betraying themselves by talking to any kind of a therapist.

    Nomadic

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  • The mental health system is completely bound up with poverty and homelessness. But for most people in such situations, their place in the world was gone before they even reached adolescence.

    And then many would go on to fall into the mental health system, from which getting out is very had.

    And the rest usually end up in therapy, recovery, healing and religion. So nothing happens, and we survivors have no social standing.

    We must stop with the appeals for pity and the endorsement of therapy, recovery, and healing.

    We get our status back by organizing and engaging in principled conflict! We must move from talk to action.

    Nomadic

  • Peer support has zero redress. It is all Recovery.

    No good, that is second rape, abusing the survivors of abuse.

    If you or I have had our biographies voided, we do not restore our social and civil standing with Recovery, Therapy, Healing, or Peer Support. No, the way to restore our social and civil standing is to engage in public conflict, to hold perpetrators accountable.

    Therapy, Recovery, Healing, and Peer Support are all based on the premise that standing up for ourselves and holding perpetrators accountable and restoring our place in this this world, are immoral.

    For myself, I have a long way to go. I need comrades. But at least I’ve done something, I helped to put a Pentecostal Daughter Molester into our state prison.

    Its not peer support that we need, its comrades. Comrades stand shoulder to shoulder with us as we engage in the fight.

    Nomadic

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  • A therapist would not be a therapist unless he believed that the solution to most problems lies inside one’s own head. He has found a denial system, therapy and they myth of emotional healing.

    He has created his own social and civil standing, by abusing others, engaging in what amounts to Second Rape.

    So for those of us who don’t want to make money by abusing others, the way to restore our social and civil standing is to fight back. And the best place to start this, really a mandatory pre-requisite, is to tell off your last Psychotherapist.

    Nomadic

  • This kind of an idea might make sense if there really was such a thing as mental health problems.

    But as it is, talking about pets playing a role, is simply another way of advancing a Recovery agenda.

    So people are being discouraged from redressing the injustices which have destroyed their social and civil standing, and they are instead being told about all the wonderful ways they Recover from and be Healed of their own mental health problems.

    This is of course another version of what has long been identified as “second rape”, turning the blame back onto the victim.

    Nomadic

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  • Ron, yes changes in ways of thinking are very important. But the ways these come about are from dealing in conflict, by going after the perpetrators, and going after the institutions like state, church, and family which back them up.

    We come to see things differently from talking with our comrades, those who stand shoulder to shoulder with us as we fight.

    Very different from lying on a therapist’s couch, and maybe celebrating our impotence by punching pillows. The therapist is not a comrade in any sense of the word. He is someone who tries to get people to talk themselves out, so that they will be left feeling that all along it was they who were the source of the problem.

    The therapist is a cancer.

    Nomadic

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  • Thank you for your article.

    We must fight back against the Psychiatric System. But we cannot do it by making appeals to pity. And we cannot do I by endorsing Psychothearpy, Recovery, or Healing. These are just more ways of trying to make people believe that there problems exist in their own heads.

    Poverty and homelessness are caused by social marginalization. And so is the state of desperation and hopelessness which we mistakenly call mental illness.

    And more often than not, this starts with familial exploitation, with being used by parents who do not live up to their own values.

    So we need to start holding these parents accountable, instead of letting them send their scapegoat child to doctors.

    I helped 3 girls put their father into San Quentin. I am convinced that if these girls had instead listened to their Pentecostal church, then those girls would have eventually ended up as the targets for that church’s outreach ministry, as well as for our mental health system.

    So we have to organize and fight back.

    Nomadic

  • Sera, I like this article. I think what makes it different from your others is that you are not asking for pity on behalf of some constituency, not asking for Therapy, Recovery, or Healing. You are just telling the Boston Globe off. Good job.

    What causes poverty and homelessness is social marginalization. And this is also what causes the quite justifiable state of desperation which we mistakenly call mental illness.

    And as far as I can see, it most of the time starts with familial exploitation and the lies that we tell about this.

    I helped 3 girls put their father into our state prison. I am convinced that if instead of telling the truth, they listened to their church, then they too would have ended up as the targets for that church’s outreach ministry, as well as being in the Mental Health System.

    And Murphy should be resisted by defiance, not be appeals for pity. The mental health system, including Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery, use a parental voice. They are trying to pass judgment on our character, on our essences. So we should never be cooperating with this or letting ourselves be seen as seeking approval. We should always reject it, no matter what that voice is saying.

    Nomadic

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  • If you or I have been marginalized, we do not restore our social and civil standing through Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing. No, we restore our social and civil standing by fighting shoulder to shoulder with comrades, fighting for social justice.

    And every day that we delay, we are only helping those who want to use eugenics and social Darwinism against us.

    Nomadic

  • We don’t do drug maintenance for heroin or cocaine users.

    When people want to and need to, they can do extreme things. During a battle people can go without sleeping for as much as 3 days. Though not in battle, I have done this.

    When people want to stop, they stop.

    Recovery ( alcohol, street drugs, psych meds ) is what people go for when they want to stop using, but don’t want to have to change their screwy thinking or face their actual pain.

    Nomadic

  • Don I completely agree with you about people banding together.

    But when you call it, “peer support, without clinical interventions”, then that sounds like Therapy, Recovery, and Healing.

    Well, if you or I have been marginalized, the way we get our social and civil standing back is by banding together and engaging in principled conflict with real people.

    We don’t gain anything by providing each other with Therapy, Recovery, and Healing. That is simply the abused and outcast further abusing each other.

    No, we only discuss our affairs with those who are stating shoulder to shoulder with us, in fighting for social justice. We discuss our affairs with comrades, not with those who want to turn us into Uncle Tom’s.

    And Oldhead, yes indeed the knot is Captialism.

    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Oedipus-Capitalism-Schizophrenia-Penguin-Classics/dp/0143105825/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    But just saying that does not always do that much. Need to find specific attack points.

    And Don, yes, Predatory Capitalism. But understand that predatory or crony Capitalism is the only kind there has ever been or ever will be. Capitalism needs labor, land, natural resources, markets, and cash. And the way it gets these is by going to the government, because Capitalism can only work when it can scramble social codes. Think British East India Company. And then think of their flag, snatched off of one of their ships to become the flag of the United States.

    Nomadic

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  • http://www.endhomelessness.org/page/-/files/1425_file_WhatisHousingFirst_logo.pdf

    They say, “Housing is not contingent on compliance with services – instead, participants
    must comply with a standard lease agreement and are provided with the
    services and supports that are necessary to help them do so successfully.”

    But we know, as I see working with people regularly, that all poor and homeless directed services are intended to delegitimate and obtain compliance with case management and a mental health interpretation.

    After children, the biggest group being shunted into a mental health interpretation, is the poor.

    Right here, “By providing housing assistance, case management and
    supportive services responsive to individual or family needs (time-limited or long-term)
    after an individual or family is housed, communities can significantly reduce the time
    people experience homelessness and prevent further episodes of homelessness.”

    Well “case management” is just another name for entry level mental health services.

    And, “Some Housing First programs serving chronically
    homeless individuals are able to provide very rich,
    intensive wraparound services and supports to
    promote a successful housing outcome. Because of
    the level of services they are able to deliver, these
    providers typically prioritize those individuals who
    have failed to use or succeed in other program
    models – some intentionally identifying their
    community’s “high system users” – those who have
    heavily relied on shelters, jails, and emergency
    rooms.”

    Well, you can read it for yourselves. But people should be resisting, fighting back, refusing to comply, because otherwise police will be delivering people to these programs. So we should have 24 hr intervention hotlines, and legal teams who will file lawsuits in huge quantities.

    Nomadic

  • Oldhead, are you high on something right now?

    Satanic Temple, no matter what you may think of that name or idea, they are teaching kids to stand up for themselves and refuse to accept corporal punishment.

    This is a new group, nothing to do with Anton LaVey, and it always sides with the marginalized and vulnerable.

    We should be doing the same, teaching adults and children to refuse Psychiatry and Psychotherapy.

    Most of the time when it is applied involuntarily it is being directed at the poor, at children, or at convicts. At least that is what I know.

    Nomadic

  • Yes, this is a crazy situation. Our entry level drugs are not found on the street, they are obtained by a doctor’s prescription.

    But sad as that is, the solution cannot be in Psychotherapy, Recovery or Healing either. Just as drugging and Psychiatry are based on lies, so too are Psychotherapy, Recovery and Healing. They are always saying that you can restore you social and civil standing just be being made to feel better. And that is always untrue.

    To restore your social and civil standing you have to engage in conflict with real people. And that takes comrades. So you have to find comrades and act. This is what we, the Survivors of the Middle-Class Family and the Survivors of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy should be doing, organizing and then taking legal and political action.

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    Nomadic

  • And thank you Bonnie for calling for the protection of children.

    We who have been marginalized do not restore our status with Psychotherapy, Recovery, Healing, or Religion. We restore that status by organizing and engaging in principled conflict.

    So long as we refuse to do this, we aid those who want to make a eugenic argument against us.

    One of the things we must do is use whatever means are necessary to protect the children of today.

    Nomadic

  • One group which has really impressed me with its activism is Satanic Temple.

    Now here they are dealing with corporal punishment in schools, and not as done by parents. But it would be a very small step to shift their efforts to the doings of parents. And also, they are acting to stop school corporal punishment, even when parents have signed a consent form.

    And two big points of note, they are teaching children to stand up for themselves, to claim a religious exemption, and to send a letter to the school board, and to carry a card with them.

    And then if they have trouble with school admins or teachers, the card says that besides calling 911 and news media, they should call Satanic Temple.

    https://thesatanictemple.com/campaigns/the-protect-children-project/

    https://thesatanictemple.com/campaigns/the-protect-children-project/protect-children-project-letter-to-the-schoolboard/

    So if you have been marginalized, you don’t restore your social and civil standing through Psychotherapy, Recovery, or Healing. No, you establish social and civil standing by engaging in principled conflict!

    So say you or I were marginalized by how we were treated in school, or by how our parents only had children to give themselves a legitimated social identity, and so they made us into the scapegoat, or say it was because of racial or religious prejudice.

    No matter, you cannot restore your social and civil standing with Psychotherapy, Recovery, Healing, or Religion. If you want to have back some of what was taken from you, then you have to engage in principled conflict with real people.

    So, lets come up with similar things to what Satanic Temple is doing. It could pertain, to children, adults or both. How about a religious objection to psychiatry and psychotherapy? Administrators receive a similar warning letter. People carry cards, if our organization is called, things happen.

    We cannot hope to intercede in every injustice. But if we want to change anything, if we want to have our own social and civil standing back, then we have to engage in some types of visible and principled conflicts.

    Nomadic

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  • The tendency to see disgruntled, angry, or poor people as “mentally ill” continues to increase. And this will remain so as long as people are promoting Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing.

    So instead we need to start taking legal and political actions, and fighting for concrete gains, rather than just looking for ways to tune out and “feel better”

    Nomadic

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  • I agree that there are positive signs.

    But I also see much that is negative. For example, where I live government money is still being used to treat the poor and homeless survivors of familial child abuse, as mentally ill. And so when they provide people with housing, it is always tied to acceptance of the mental illness model which goes along with it. And these facilities always have onsite mental health treatment. While at the same time, politicians are patting themselves on the back for how “compassionate” they are being.

    And then there is the continuing fusion of the Recovery Movement with Evangelical Christianity, and now also with the idea of Mental Illness.

    What do people thing about:
    http://hope4mentalhealth.com/

    So I say that we must focus on concrete objectives and fight for these at every level:

    1. Forced treatment must be outlawed.
    2. Giving psych meds to children must be outlawed, as they are not able to consent.
    3. All therapists must comply with mandatory reporting, as there has to be outside supervision. As it is today therapists who do sessions with children are accomplice child abusers, and often they are even playing God.
    4. Parents are responsible for all acts intended to harm, so there must be channels for lawsuits and disinheritance must be abolished as it is in most other industrialized nations.

    Without these, the exploitation of children will still be the norm, because it will still be possible to blame it all on the child.

    Nomadic

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  • That is usually the case, lawyers can’t really give advice unless they take the case either, insurance and liability considerations. So it is slow going.

    This is why we must organize, please help us organize and put together pools of lawyers to take cases.

    The remedy for social injustice is in the court room and on the picket lines, but never in the Psychotherapist’s Office.

    Nomadic

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  • “Mental Health, Community Development, and Human Liberation”

    Mental Health and Community Development are contradictory concepts.

    Mental Health and Human Liberation are contradictory concepts.

    The concept of Mental Health originates with the concept of Mental Illness, and that is merely a way of further stigmatizing and abusing those who have already been socially marginalized and abused.

    And then the Psychiatry / Psychotherpy / Recovery / Healing approach is based on an obvious lie. They are saying that you can restore your social and civil standing without engaging in conflict with real people. They are telling you that the only problem is the one between your own two ears.

    Nomadic

  • ^^^^ A first! Julie, I like what you are saying.

    Where I live they are building a concentration camp for the homeless. And it will have on site privately operated mental health services.

    They have always treated poverty and homelessness as mental illness.

    As I see it, almost all these people are survivors of extreme familial child abuse.

    Nomadic

  • Locally, cities are discussing sanctuary resolutions. Rightly so, they want to make sure that immigrants and minorities are not subject to abuses or humiliations.

    But when it comes to the homeless, they consider homelessness to be a mental illness. So they are building concentration camps with on-site “services”, meaning mental health services.

    The internment camp sanitizes the streets. The mental health treatment breaks down the final layer of human dignity which homeless people have, their privacy.

    Nomadic

  • Where I live, local government is now building internment camps for the homeless. They are treating homelessness as a mental illness. And of course these have on site “services”, especially Mental Health.

    So they use this, to sanitize the streets, but also to breakdown what remaining dignity homeless people have, their privacy.

    Nomadic

  • Psychiatry and Psychotherapy exist to oppress. And it is not just the government doing it. It is a cluster, The Middle-Class Family, The Commercial Sector, and Religion. And the government than uses all of these in order to maintain power.

    But there one unique thing about the government, it is the only part of this which we can potentially alter by the ballot box and by court actions.

    Nomadic

  • Yes, Psychiatry is a fraud. But Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing are also frauds.

    Then entire hoax is based on the idea that you can restore your social and civil standing simply by changing how you think, rather than having to fight real battles with real people.

    Sooner people learn that their therapist is and foe and not a friend, the sooner things will start to change.

    Nomadic

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  • Germany is one of the countries which has a Universal Jurisdiction law. See, it was not that many years ago that Germany got itself handed a new constitution. In Germany NGO’s can bring criminal indictments.

    And they have put this to good use, having war crimes indictments against Donald Rumsfeld and G. W. Bush. And these do not expire. So don’t expect either of these two to be going to October Fest anytime soon.

    How many agree with me that we should get these doctors who are giving drugs to children charged with Crimes Against Humanity?

    Nomadic

  • There is no anti-psychiatry movement. Being here on MIA makes this obvious. We need to organize and act. We must put out a 100% anti-psychiatry, anti-therapy, anti-healing, anti-drug message, and also a message which promises resistance to forced procedures, using any means necessary. Doctors and parents must be sued and prosecuted, and children must be protected.

    Nomadic

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  • “Holistic psychiatry teaches that within each and every one of us there are great and latent powers, which are beyond the ordinary life.”

    But why on earth would anyone want to go to a Psychiatrist in order to find this out?

    Nomadic

  • I don’t see this the way you folks do. Yes, the psychiatric system has always struck racial minorities the hardest. And this probably remains true today.

    And then of the Anti-Psychiatry Movement, there really is no such thing, as evidenced by the discussions here on Mad In America. What we have instead is a Therapy, Recovery, and Healing Movement, and this fully supports Psychiatry. Its adherents don’t want to protect children, they don’t want to hold parents responsible, they don’t want to prosecute doctors, and they tend to look at everything through Libertarian Anti-Government lenses. So they support the underlying premises of Psychiatry and the Middle-Class Family, and they see children as property.

    The present situation sucks.

    Racism has never really existed just for its own sake. The reason for it was to lock in social stratification. That people would hold racist views themselves was simply the result of a lack of social contact with persons of other races. But the real reason for the system and for segregation, was always economic.

    Many slaves thought that by cooperating that they were earning their citizenship.

    By making repeated raids into Maryland, Harriet Tubman liberated hundreds of slaves. But she said that she could have liberated far more if only they’d of known that they were slaves.

    So I see the issues involved in opposing Psychiatry and Psychotherapy as being very similar to racial justice struggles. We need to understand and draw upon the language and concepts of the anti-slavery movement and the civil rights movement. And today I see there as being a need for a much broader movement which seeks to end Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery, as well as giving rights to children and discrediting the middle-class family. Everybody wants to do well, so they don’t need to be abused in the name of the self-reliance ethic. And it is a tragedy that they spend their lives seeking to earn approval with Therapy and Recovery, and believing the lies.

    Everything in America has always been coded in terms of race, and it still is. The basic idea is that some people are seen as legitimate and some are not. And today, as we need less labor any type, we get our society’s scapegoats not from low wage labor done by immigrants and minorities, but in the scapegoats of the middle-class family, those turned into basket cases by psychiatry and psychotherapy.

    So we need to organize and fight back, and the most important component of this is that we refuse to be Uncle Tom’s, and we refuse to ask for pity. The Therapy, Recovery, and Healing Movement, which is strong here on Mad In America, is sickening.

    Very Good Book:
    https://www.amazon.com/Miners-Canary-Enlisting-Resisting-Transforming-ebook/dp/B004IZL4LW/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    A true Anti-Psychiatry and Children’s Rights Movement would be the logical continuation of the racial justice movement.

    Nomadic

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  • Racism has always been about keeping society stratified, more than it is about actual racial prejudice.

    Well, today we use the middle-class family and doctors to make people into basket cases. We do this because we don’t need working people as scapegoats, because there is less need for labor.

    But we do still need scapegoats because otherwise the work force, labor and clerical, will become militant and demand higher wages.

    And remember, most treatments are voluntary, except for with children. Forced treatments, while important to outlaw, are still just a small portion of a much bigger picture.

    A Libertarian Anti-Government view will always promote familial child abuse and legitimate psychiatry and psychotherapy, while the survivors are kept passive.

    Nomadic

  • It is essential that we oppose Murphy and anything else like it, without even one word of legitimacy for Psychotherapy, Recovery, or Healing. And we must never ask for pity.

    The reason we have these things is to make societal scapegoats. We used to get these scapegoats from the immigrants and minorities who did low wage labor. But today there is just less need for labor. So now we get out scapegoats directly from the middle-class family.

    So we must make people understand that mental illness, ADHD, Autism, and Eating Disorders are just middle-class child abuse. And we must never endorse psychotherapy, recovery, or healing, only legal and political action to obtain justice.

    And we must make it clear that we will fight back, using ANY MEANS NECESSARY. Underlying all of this is a eugenics argument. Since people will allow forced treatment and be shunted into psychotherapy and recovery, then these people must be defective. So we must disabuse our society of this view, by fighting back. We must protect ourselves, those at risk for psychiatry, psychotherapy, and recovery, and we must demonstrate that we will do WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN OF TODAY, ESPECIALLY FROM THEIR OWN PARENTS!

    And we must make it clear that this is not a no fault campaign either, we want the Psychiatry and Psychotherapy practitioners behind bars. They are accomplice child abusers and the violate mandatory reporting. Both felonies.

    There is today zero anti-psychiatry movement. Those who would lead it refuse to look a the full picture. Most treatment is after all voluntary, and most of those most severely impacted are children, who are being severely harmed long before they are anywhere near any kind of a doctor.

    So those who claim to be anti-psychiatry are merely looking at this from a Libertarian Anti-Government perspective. And that is totally useless.

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    Nomadic

  • It is essential that we oppose Murphy and anything else like it, without even one word of legitimacy for Psychotherapy, Recovery, or Healing. And we must never ask for pity.

    The reason we have these things is to make societal scapegoats. We used to get these scapegoats from the immigrants and minorities who did low wage labor. But today there is just less need for labor. So now we get out scapegoats directly from the middle-class family.

    So we must make people understand that mental illness, ADHD, Autism, and Eating Disorders are just middle-class child abuse. And we must never endorse psychotherapy, recovery, or healing, only legal and political action to obtain justice.

    And we must make it clear that we will fight back, using ANY MEANS NECESSARY. Underlying all of this is a eugenics argument. Since people will allow forced treatment and be shunted into psychotherapy and recovery, then these people must be defective. So we must disabuse our society of this view, by fighting back. We must protect ourselves, those at risk for psychiatry, psychotherapy, and recovery, and we must demonstrate that we will do WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN OF TODAY, ESPECIALLY FROM THEIR OWN PARENTS!

    And we must make it clear that this is not a no fault campaign either, we want the Psychiatry and Psychotherapy practitioners behind bars. They are accomplice child abusers and the violate mandatory reporting. Both felonies.

    There is today zero anti-psychiatry movement. Those who would lead it refuse to look a the full picture. Most treatment is after all voluntary, and most of those most severely impacted are children, who are being severely harmed long before they are anywhere near any kind of a doctor.

    So those who claim to be anti-psychiatry are merely looking at this from a Libertarian Anti-Government perspective. And that is totally useless.

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    Nomadic

  • Oldhead, have you actually read what I’ve posted?

    More and more our societal scapegoats are being found in people who live on welfare, disability, or just by panhandling and recycling cans. Race is a factor here, but not as much as it was when we had a working underclass.

    Today we don’t need a working underclass to maintain work force discipline, as we just need less and less workers. We get our scapegoats right from the middle-class family, aided by psychotherapy, psychiatry, recovery, and healing.

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    Nomadic

  • Yes, we need to oppose this. But part of the problem is that there is no Anti-Psychiatry Movement, none. Instead we have a Therapy, Recovery, and Healing Movement, and this legitimates psychiatry, and it also silences abuse survivors.

    So we must oppose psychiatry, without in anyway abusing the survivors. This means we must never utter a work of support for Therapy, Recovery, or Healing.

    And we must make it clear that the entire psychiatry, psychotherapy, and FixMyKid industry are just continuations of child abuse, and that this is being done to support eugenics, to maintain work force discipline in our capitalist system.

    Nomadic

  • Certainly racism has long been a big part of it. But I don’t know if today racism is still a big part of it.

    It used to be that capitalism got its scapegoats from the immigrants and minorities who did low wage labor and slave labor. It needs these to keep the entire work force in line.

    But today there is much less need for labor.

    So it gets its scapegoats directly from the middle-class family, with the help of the psychiatric system, recovery, psychotherapy, and evangelical religion. These are designed to oppress and to turn people into basket cases and to stop them from being able to politically organize and fight back.

    This is why we must never endorse psychotherapy, recovery, or healing, and we must never take a pity seeking approach.

    Nomadic

  • About opposing Murphy. First of all, thanks to Oldhead for keeping us updated.

    Part of the problem, as strongly evidenced here on MIA, THERE IS NO ANTI-PSYCHIATRY MOVEMENT!

    There is though a Therapy, Recovery, and Healing Movement, and this is the problem, because under the cover of this all manner of child abuse, psychiatry, and oppression have free reign.

    Back when Laing and Cooper were writing, this was not a problem, as Therapy and Recovery were not the government sponsored, politically neutral, evangelical aligned religion which they are today.

    So the first thing is that whatever is done, there must be zero support, not one word, for Therapy, Recovery, and Healing.

    Then I suppose outlawing forced procedures, maybe outlawing giving drugs to children, or maybe outlawing all psych drugs, will be the agenda.

    But then, it is imperative that we make it clear that any forced procedures will be opposed by ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

    One of the reasons that psychiatry is able to prey on people is because they don’t resist. Since they don’t resist, the eugenic arguments come into play, saying that these people must be somehow defective, and so the treatments must be necessary. What this is about is the creation of an untouchable cast, in order to maintain work force discipline.

    So we must make it clear, Any Means Necessary, and we must be ready to deliver.

    Then, we must show people the truth, all this Mental Illness, Autism, ADHD, Eating Disorders thing is, is child abuse. A child is ‘othered’, so they come to believe that they have something wrong with them. So if the parent is not driving the kid to the doctor, they will eventually seek one on their own.

    And we have seen people post here about how their son needs to be on meds or they would have to live in the homeless shelter. This starts with parent v child conflict, and so we have to start holding the parents 100% financially accountable. Make the parent(s) live in the homeless shelter.

    This creation of an untouchable basket case caste starts with familial child abuse. We must show this.

    Nomadic

  • Certainly using computers much of the day, and especially those really tiny mobile devices, it does change people. Kids take to it easier, but they are also probably more likely to be seriously effected by it.

    What to use to compensate for it?

    How about Tantric Sex?

    Nomadic

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  • Why would anyone ever want to see a Psychiatrist, a Psychotherapist, or go to a Recovery Group?

    None of these things will ever do anything to help change the objective circumstances of your life. All they are is taking advantage of those who have already been abused.

    If you or I feel distress, that is because our social and civil standing have been compromised. Unless we have done something to really earn this, then we are the victims of injustice.

    So the remedy for this is political and legal action. And for this we need to find comrades and organize.

    Psych meds should be off the market. Giving them to children should constitute a felony.

    Performing psychotherapy or psychiatry on a child should be seen as subject to mandatory reporting, otherwise the doctor is an accomplice child abuser. So either report, or be prosecuted for a felony.

    And parents must be held financially accountable for all child abuse and disinheritance must be prohibited. Take the profit out of middle-class child abuse, and shut down the FixMyKid industry.

    Nomadic

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  • There is no such thing as mental illness.

    Forced treatment must be outlawed.

    Giving psych meds to children must be outlawed.

    When a doctor is going to see a child, he must report to Child Protection, otherwise he is becoming an accomplice child abuser.

    Parents must be held fully financially accountable for harming their children, intentionally or otherwise, and disinheritance must be prohibited.

    Nomadic

  • The main reason for middle-class child abuse is because the parents are living in Bad Faith, they are not living up to their own values. They have children deliberately in order to use them.

    So Alex, the “abuse” which underlies this othering of children, maybe not directly intentional, but the parents are still culpable.

    TAKE THEIR MONEY AND ASSETS FROM THEM!

    Nomadic

  • “Kids Diagnosed with Autism More Likely to Get Psychotropic Drugs”

    Yes, undoubtedly this is true. But the reason is that kids have not yet learned to reject the ASD and ADHD labels, and they have not yet learned that their parent are wrong to be “othering them”, and the parents and the doctors are not yet getting hit with lawsuits, and because kids have not yet learned that the proper response to these doctors is simply the middle finger.

    Nomadic

  • The vast majority of people are in deep denial. And besides, such surveys are insulting and harmful.

    Abuses and injustices should be redressed by legal and political action. And the first rule of this is that you never discuss personal matters with non-comrades. You maintain operational security.

    Nomadic

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  • Oldhead, one of the greatest forms of oppression in our society is the way that the middle-class family exploits and abuses children. They do this, what some have called “othering”, and it is very hard for the child survivor to ever re-gain their place in society. They just don’t have the kind of biography which people will respect.

    And then doctors, some drug, some anti-drug, are called in to aid the parents.

    And then adult survivors use every means available to remain in denial.

    You seem to want to talk about this all like it is a joke.

    I want to let you know that I strongly disagree with you.

    Nomadic

  • I think the problem is in having a dialogue like the one being called for, people are enabling abusers. They are acting like the problem is within themselves. It is a “Recovery” oriented approach.

    So rather than organizing and acting to obtain justice, people are seceding, talking a cop-out approach. It is based on the standard lie, that you can restore your social and civil standing without having to engage in political and legal action. So instead, people collaborate with abusers, and with an entirely parasitic industry, Psychotherapy.

    Nomadic

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  • If a child comes into the doctor’s office and the child is black and blue, then the doctor either gets some clear answers, or he has to report, or he gets charged with a felony.

    The law is the same for suspicion of extreme emotional abuse. We just need to enforce it.

    1. Strange behavior, is cause to suspect child abuse.
    2. Getting hit with strange labels is cause to suspect child abuse.

    Either they report or we need to get them prosecuted for felonies. This is the only way to stop these doctors from playing God, from aiding in child abuse, and from profiting from it.

    There could still be various types of child therapies and treatments, its just that they would be overseen by the court. And that is the only way children can be protected from further harm.

    Nomadic

  • That Electoral College is our legacy of slavery and 3/5’s.

    Avert the need for impeachment or a civil war, amend the Constitution right now and eliminate that Electoral College and Dump Trump.

    Making democracy work in the most powerful nation on earth is not anything like a sporting match, and we need to start understanding that.

    Nomadic

  • I am saying that psychotherapy is a denial system. I’m not saying that therapy makes people worse off, but they are being taken advantage of.

    That they seek it, oh well. But to make real progress, and I don’t mean “healing”, I mean obtaining justice, they need to leave therapy behind.

    For one thing, you DO NOT DISCUSS YOUR AFFAIRS WITH NON-COMRADES. Instead you maintain operational security.

    “The practice of psychotherapy is wrong because it is profiting off of another person’s misery”, Jeffrey Masson.

    Nomadic

  • I think we should be trying right now to outlaw the giving of psych drugs to children. Maybe it won’t happen yet, but we should be pushing.

    I also say that we have to shut down all facets of the fix my kid industry. The way to do this is simply to enforce mandatory reporting. Failure to report in suspected cases of child abuse is already supposed to be a felony.

    The middle-class family has always used its ability to hire private practice doctors as a way of defining itself. So we have now doctors who advertise to parents that they will always hold parents as blameless and make their kids more compliant. Some use drugs, some are anti-drug.

    Using drugs is medical experimentation upon children. Doing it with talk therapy alone is helping children to be used as marital pawns. No one is looking out for the interests of the child.

    So I say, either these doctors report, or we get them into handcuffs and prosecute them.

    Nomadic

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  • If you don’t have mandatory reporting, then doctors are professional accomplice child abusers. This used to be called Muchausen’s Syndrome By Proxy. Now it is called Medical Child Abuse.

    ADHD, ASD, Mental Illness, are clear examples of this. What could be worse than doctors who treat non-existent illnesses and advertise this?

    Mandatory Reporting gets it under the supervision of the court, and this is the only entity which has authority over the parents. The doctors market themselves to the parents, and herein lies the root problem. Only the court has the authority to intercede. The court makes the child into a personage.

    Nomadic

  • Yes, I see your points, we could try to go further. I’m just trying to put forth something which a large number of people might be able to agree on. So I am being moderate.

    Understand that #1 ends the entire rationale for psychiatry. #2 ends what is being done with drugs in Foster Care, and a huge number of doctors are gone with it.

    #3 eliminates the fix my kid industry

    #4 restructures our society as it exposes the link between the middle-class family and capitalism.

    Nomadic

  • Social marginalization is what causes these effects which we call mental illness, like psychosis.

    Rather than doing studies to see who is at risk, like we were treating a disease epidemic, how about looking at how to remedy social marginalization? Most of it is a combination of familial child abuse and economics.

    Nomadic

  • Art and Mindfulness are very important. But the minute you start calling it “therapy”, then it is being corrupted, changed into something designed to anesthetize people to their feelings. People experience distress and pain because they have seen and experienced wrongness.

    No therapy will every remedy this wrongness. Therapy is like taking aspirin if you should happen to sit on the tack, instead of removing the tack.

    The best response to the experience of wrongness are political and legal action.

    Nomadic

  • Moni, I’m glad to know that things are going better for you now. But there is no such thing as Bipolar Disorder or Mental Illness, there is only an industry of Psychotherapists and Psychiatrists who have been able to convince the public otherwise. The concept of mental illness is just a way of delegitimating people.

    The right place to ground our own experiences is in political and legal action, undertaken with a network of comrades. This is the only way that wrongs can ever be redressed.

    A therapist is not this network of comrades. A therapist may hold similar sentiments, but a therapist is a therapist because they are committed to the view that problems and their solutions reside inside of someone’s own head.

    Nomadic

  • The place for people to ground their experiences is with political and legal activism undertaken with a network of comrades.

    Though a psychotherapist may have similar sentiments, they are still not that band of comrades. A therapist is a therapist because he or she believes that the problem and the solution lie within your own head. As such we must avoid these people like the plague they are.

    Nomadic

  • What do you think about this:
    http://hope4mentalhealth.com/

    I am convinced that it is intended to promote medical child abuse ( formerly Munchausen’s Syndrome by Proxy ), and then to take the adults who survive and complete the process by turning them into total basket cases.

    And I feel especially confident in saying this because of how involved I was in helping to put someone from a similar church into our state prison for molesting his daughters. He and the wife had already gotten the eldest boy removed from the home by escalating conflicts with him and then getting him diagnosed with ~~mental illness~~ and put on drugs.

    I learned how their church works and how their entire belief system depends upon child scapegoating.

    Nomadic

  • All it would take is the President, the Democrats, and just a bit more than 1/3 of the Republicans and the Constitution could be amended right now to eliminate the electoral college, effective for this election.

    We could ask those most qualified, the 8 sitting justices of the Supreme Court, to write the amendment.

    Sometimes it is strange crises which force progress. Bring the United States forward out of the 19th Century.

    Otherwise with this claim of weekly contact with Russians and the FBI announcements, it’s “What did Trump know and when did he know it?” As it will be necessary to impeach him and require the same congressional 2/3rds.

    Obama missed his FDR moment when he failed to nationalize or even re-regulate the banks. Well now on his way out he can have an even greater moment by finally fixing our system so that every vote counts, and averting a disaster of epic proportions.

    Governing the most powerful nation in the world is nothing like a sporting match, as the stakes are so much higher. We all need therefore to think very hard about what is needed, and then do it.

    Nomadic

  • Of course the problem lies with our entire society. But as people are starting to wake up, the places to strike are against Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Big Pharma, Abusive Parents, and against our Capitalist System which depends on the Middle-Class Family.

    The susceptibility to psychiatric medications is exactly the same as the susceptibility to psychotherapy, alcohol, and street drugs.

    Specifically for a start I say we should:

    1. Outlaw forced treatment
    2. Outlaw giving psych meds to children
    3. Enforce mandatory reporting, any therapy on children must be reported to Child Protection.
    4. Take profit out of Medical Child Abuse ( formerly Munchausen’s By Proxy ), parents are responsible for all harms inflicted, and disinheritance of one’s child is prohibited.

    Nomadic

  • I think the problem starts with a lack of political consciousness. That is, when someone feels that something is wrong, they don’t look at it as being something about our society and about the place which they have been thrown into. They don’t look to political activism as the remedy.

    Instead they accept the view that there is something wrong with them. So they go to doctors or to motivationalism, or to evangelical religion. And of course none of these things address the real problems that they are feeling. They just make the situations worse. So from doctors they get either drugs or psychotherapy, but these accomplish absolutely nothing, other than to further convince the client that they are the problem.

    And so the susceptibility to psychiatric medications is exactly the same as the susceptibility to psychotherapy, alcohol, and street drugs.

    Nomadic

  • So seeing this unworkable situation, what should we be trying to do about it?

    I say:

    1. Outlaw forced treatment
    2. Outlaw giving psych meds to children
    3. Enforce mandatory reporting, any therapy on children must be reported to Child Protection. Otherwise doctors become accomplice child abusers, as no one is looking after the child’s interests.
    4. Take the profit out of Medical Child Abuse ( formerly Munchausen’s By Proxy ), parents are responsible for all harms inflicted, and disinheritance of one’s child is prohibited.

    Nomadic

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  • There is no such thing as schizophrenia, not as a mental illness.

    The symptoms which we call clinical schizophrenia are simply the result of psychiatry, psychiatric medications, and psychotherapy, being used to denigrate and humiliate. What they do is try to make people believe that their distress is caused by something wrong with themselves, rather than about their degraded social position.

    “The practice of psychotherapy is wrong, because it is profiting from another person’s misery.”
    https://www.amazon.com/Against-Therapy-Jeffrey-Moussaieff-Masson/dp/1567510221/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479243719&sr=8-1&keywords=jeffrey+masson

    Political consciousness raising and political and legal action are what people need to become involved in. Win some victories, and their distress will evaporate.

    When it comes to psychotherapy:
    http://i1.cpcache.com/product/791517196/middle_finger_punk_rock_design_225quot_button.jpg?height=460&width=460&qv=90

    Nomadic

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  • At this point, with the election a nightmare candidate Trump, and then with psychiatry still continuing, I feel that we have to try and look at the larger picture. If we look only at a narrow field, then we are missing a broader pattern of cause and effect.

    So let me just try to briefly lay out a few ideas:

    1. Trump’s supporters tend to believe simple things like the Horatio Alger Ethic. They believe that everyone should be economically advancing themselves, just by hard work. And they believe that the poor deserve to be poor.

    2. Capitalism always depends on scapegoats. Usually this has been the poor, but also it is those presumed to suffer from moral or medical defect. And medical defects are always interpreted as moral defects. So we have had our scapegoats in racial minorities and immigrants. But that was back when there was a large need for labor. Today, we get our scapegoats directly from the middle-class family, deciding who is unfit and needs to be taken to the doctor ( drug or anti-drug ), and then making people into basket cases. Seeing this keeps the work force in line.

    3. The middle-class family is unlike anything which has ever before existed, reading pedagogy and child development manuals and having children by choice, all to enhance one’s social status. The middle-class family is the standard which is always being used, in the Right Wing politics of someone like Trump, and by psychiatrists and psychologists.

    And then as long as people believe that psychotherapy can solve their problems, or believe that street drugs or alcohol can solve their problems, what chance is there that they will refuse prescription drugs?

    So psychiatry, psychotherapy, the middle-class family, child abuse, social Darwinism, and eugenics, are all closely connected.

    So seeing this what do you think we should do about it?

    I say:

    1. Outlaw forced treatment
    2. Outlaw giving psych meds to children
    3. Enforce mandatory reporting, any therapy on children must be reported to Child Protection.
    4. Take profit out of Medical Child Abuse ( formerly Munchausen’s By Proxy ), parents are responsible for all harms inflicted, and disinheritance of one’s child is prohibited.

    Nomadic

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    Bernie Sanders on how Donald Trump won presidency
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlmuKtyhDKg

  • That the VA hospitals perform the worst does not surprise me.

    But I also find it outrageous that people come back from wars and are told that they need psychiatry or psychotherapy, and that these could be the solutions to their problems.

    These people have served in areas where things happen which are not talked about here at home, like friendly fire casualties and fragging, and like atrocities committed against combatants and civilians. Those who go off to war often have been fed a very distorted version of reality, and often a lack of other economic opportunities plays into it.

    So then to return, living in the gap between reality and the lies and illusions our society lives on, to be told that they need psychiatry or psychotherapy is just another abuse.

    Thou Shalt Not Kill
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBADjCeFnuU

    Nomadic

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  • Mik and Someone Else, I basically agree with you and feel that we have to do something about the situation. But it is also because people have been made to believe that the reason for their distress lies within themselves. As long as they believe this they will be susceptible to Psychotherapy and Life Coaching, Prescription Drugs, and alcohol and street drugs, and also evangelical religion.

    This will never change until they come to see that there is nothing wrong inside of themselves, but rather it all comes down to their seriously damaged social and civil standing which causes them legitimate distress.

    Nomadic

  • But what might be more effective is rather than treating anxiety as some sort of an illness, to simply try and correct the problems which are making someone anxious.

    If someone is anxious, it is almost always for good reason.

    There may be things which make a person’s life particularly fragile, so they feel anxiety over things others would dismiss.

    Political organizing and political and legal action can strengthen the standing of those on the margins. And those of us Survivors of the Middle-Class Family are always on the margins because we have yet organize and do anything.

    Nomadic

  • If a child comes into a doctor’s office showing behaviors which are used to justify the bogus labels of ADHD or ASD, then that doctor should have to report to CPS as he or she is seeing evidence to suspect child abuse.

    But likewise, if someone is saying that a child has ADHD or ASD, that is also child abuse, medical child abuse, what used to be known as Munchausen’s Syndrome By Proxy.

    In both cases, mandatory reporting should apply. We have to stop parents from being able to hire doctors as accomplice abusers.

    Nomadic

  • How many reasons would you need to go off of heroin or cocaine? Are you seeing prescription psych meds as anything different?

    People feel psychological distress because their biographies are nullified and so they lack social and civil standing. So that psychological pain is simply a way the body is telling you that you are in danger.

    People can re-legitimate themselves if they can find comrades and take political and legal action.

    But as long as people believe that psychotherapy and life-coaching can somehow give them something, then they will also remain susceptible to alcohol, street drugs, and prescription drugs. They still believe that the problem resides in themselves.

    Nomadic

  • If I sit on a tack, I will feel pain. That is my body’s way of letting me know that harm is being done and that I need to do something to stop further damage.

    But more likely than not, I will get sent to Psychotherapy, to Street Drugs, to Alcohol, to Prescription Drugs, to Motivationalism, or to Religion. All of these things give me ways to avoid feeling the pain, and to come to believe that the problem is within me.

    Likewise, if my social standing is being denigrated, if I am being marginalized, if my biography is being voided, I will feel emotional and psychological distress and pain. It is there to tell me that something is wrong and that if I don’t do something about it, my ability to go on living could come into question.

    But likely I will get sent to the same places, to Psychotherapy, to Street Drugs, to Alcohol, to Prescription Drugs, to Motivationalism, or to Religion. Always, they try to tell me that the problem is within me, and that my misery is simply because I will not submit and accept things as they are.

    They don’t want me to remove the tack. They don’t want me to fight to redress the wrongs which continue to shape my life. They want me to accept the same life of lies and denial that they live.

    Nomadic

    So tempted to write in George McGovern.

    But I know the importance of today, and I know that I can send messages and make statements in other ways.

    Like most of us, Hillary Clinton is clearly influenced by the Civil Rights Movement, the Anti-War Movement, and the Women’s Movement. And we can see this.

    But she started out as a White Suburban Republican, and she even worked on the Barry Goldwater Campaign. We can still see this too.

  • Saying that a child has “behavioral or emotional problems”, that sounds like Medical Child Abuse, what used to be known as Munchausen’s Syndrome By Proxy, and it should be subject to Mandatory Reporting.

    Nomadic

    But I know the importance of today, and I know that I can send messages and make statements in other ways.

    Like most of us, Hillary Clinton is clearly influenced by the Civil Rights Movement, the Anti-War Movement, and the Women’s Movement. And we can see this.

    But she started out as a White Suburban Republican, and she even worked on the Barry Goldwater Campaign. We can still see this too.

  • As long as people believe that psychotherapy can solve their problems, or believe that street drugs or alcohol can solve their problems, what chance is there that they will refuse prescription drugs?

    And what do you think we should do about this?

    I say:

    1. Outlaw forced treatment
    2. Outlaw giving psych meds to children
    3. Enforce mandatory reporting, any therapy on children must be reported to Child Protection.
    4. Take profit out of Medical Child Abuse ( formerly Munchausen’s By Proxy ), parents are responsible for all harms inflicted, and disinheritance of one’s child is prohibited.

    Nomadic

  • I’m not sure who oldhead is quoting here, but I agree with oldhead.


    many times a diagnosis doesn’t serve a direct clinical purpose. I’ve said as much. You seem not so open to the fact that sometimes, it can be a great relief and reassurance to patients.

    Psychotherapy, Psych Meds, and Street Drugs are all sold on the same lie. You are being told that you don’t have to go thru the hero’s journey, you don’t have to vanquish foes, and that the objective of life is to feel better.

    It is a dangerous and very destructive delusion.

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/hero-s-journey-t396.html

    Nomadic

  • I helped to put a man into our state prison, for sexually molesting his daughters. A huge part of his defense, and really the guy’s whole life, revolved around this idea that he suffered from a ~~Brain Chemical Imbalance~~ and had this disorder called ~~Bipolar~~.

    And yes, the man was a bit strange to talk to. Most of all he said stupid things, irresponsible things, and he held to some very conservative and non-sensical views, which were typical of those in his church.

    But the most intense thing about him was that he was absolutely terrified of feeling his feelings, instead he believed in denial and motivationalism. This was typical of those in his church. He had gotten kicked out of a more moderate church. And he believed that to avoid feeling his feelings he had to have those drugs.

    But I have also known others who have been convinced by the White Coats that they also suffer from ~~ Bipolar II ~~. And so they also are terrified of feeling their feelings. And they believe that they have to have those drugs. They live in total fear.

    So what I wrote to the DA is that learning to live in one’s own skin is the work of a lifetime. But that guy and his church were committed to the exact opposite.

    So of course when people think that way, and when they accept chemical mood alterants, prescription or street, they are going to have no center, no ability to absorb and adapt as new stresses arise. And so it is not at all surprising that some of them sometimes will do extreme and destructive things.

    Psychotherapy, Psychiatric Drugs, Motivationalism, Evangelical Christianity, street drugs and alcohol are all sold on the same lie, “You can live a good life without having to go thru the Hero’s Journey, without having to stand up for your self and vanquish foes. You best strategy is denial and Live and Let Live.” And so when you listen to this, you are getting your teeth kicked in each and everyday. The work place is bad, but at least in the work place there are some norms that you have to respect people. The very worst is the arena of intimate relationships because that is a true jungle with no rules. If you don’t fit with other people’s denial systems, but instead threaten them, they will chew you up and spit you out.

    And none of this will ever change until you forcefully reject Live and Let Live and Psychotherapy and chemical mood alterants, and instead go through that Hero’s Journey and fight and obtain justice.

    I helped put a Pentecostal Daughter Molester into prison. The opportunity was handed to me, and so I knew I must take it. I consider him to be my first scalp. So I am always bragging about my role in it. But I also know that that alone does not do it. It was just a first test.

    Those of us who have survived the middle-class family, something which only exists because it is allowed to exploit and abuse children, must organize, stop taking chemicals and stop talking to any kind of therapists, and instead we must start winning some tangible victories. I am talking about lawsuits, criminal cases, and getting some laws changed.

    Psychotherapy, Psych Meds, and Street Drugs all depend on the same very dangerous lie.

    36:00
    “It’s such a hero’s journey to hold accountable the people who harmed you …”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAAUQjrxECg&feature=youtu.be&t=35m29s

    https://www.amazon.com/Sickened-Memoir-Munchausen-Proxy-Childhood/dp/0553803077/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1476901642&sr=8-2&keywords=julie%20gregory%20sickened&tag=viglink20290-20

    Nomadic

  • Veterans return, being right in the center of the lies which our society is based on. Then to make it even worse we tell them that they suffer from ~~mental illness~~.

    And then for these people written about above, who just lose it, I know that their lives are also bound up in the lies our society is based on.

    Thou Shalt Not Kill
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBADjCeFnuU

    Nomadic

  • This is a resurgence of eugenics. Social Darwinism has never left us.

    The objective is to create a huge portion of the population that are permanent basket cases.

    We must organize and fight this. We can’t be frightened into submission by the prospect that they will consider as us crazy. By the fact that we can organize and take action, we will establish for ourselves a place in the world.

    Nomadic

  • mik,

    Okay, so what do we do about it?

    Peter C. Gøtzsche has written that it would be better if these drugs were taken off the market. I agree with that and would like to see it happen.

    I think by a ballot initiative, say like starting in Vermont, it would not be that hard to remove them.

    But then you are going to have people screaming that they can’t get their drugs and that they are being persecuted. As I see it, the appeal of these drugs is no different than the appeal of alcohol and street drugs.

    And even here on MadInAmerica, with people who claim themselves to be completely “anti-psychiatry”, we find endorsements for street drugs as the way to deal with adversity.

    So what do we do, let these drugs be sold, along with decriminalized heroin and cocaine?

    I say that the place to start is a 100% air tight and absolute prohibition on ever giving any of these psychiatric and behavioral medication drugs to children. And I mean air tight and with severe criminal penalties for violating.

    Complete 4-point Proposal
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/door-always-open-to-new-drugs-t395.html

    Nomadic

  • https://chomsky.info/1971xxxx/


    On the other hand, when we discussed the problem of human nature and political problems, then differences arose between us. And contrary to what you think, you can’t prevent me from believing that these notions of human nature, of justice, of the realisation of the essence of human beings, are all notions and concepts which have been formed within our civilisation, within our type of knowledge and our form of philosophy, and that as a result form part of our class system; and one can’t, however regrettable it may be, put forward these notions to describe or justify a fight which should-and shall in principle–overthrow the very fundaments of our society. This is an extrapolation for which I can’t find the historical justification. That’s the point. ..

    https://youtu.be/OY93gHVynaY?t=59m36s

    http://percaritatem.com/2010/02/25/part-i-power-subjectification-and-resistance-in-foucault/

    Nomadic

    https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Foucault-Selections-Works-1954-1984/dp/1565848012/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1478222322&sr=1-1&keywords=essential+foucault

  • Frank and Alex, ADHD is bogus, and in the view of Sami Timimi, so is Autism Spectrum Disorder. So these things being bogus, they are not being caused by parents. They don’t even exit.

    But there is what Alex called this “othering”. In other times I have compared it to being made into a leper, like in the Gospels. And then there is what I call Maternal Hatred Syndrome.

    Read this, Jayne Lytel, a frightening woman who clearly finds her younger son Leo to be an embarrassment.

    https://www.amazon.com/Act-Early-Against-Autism-Fighting/dp/B001OMHUQ0

    So as it stands today, a parent can take their child to a doctor and get them diagnosed and drugged. And if for some reason one doctor won’t do it, another will. And there are doctors who advertise this. And then there are some who will make the child more subservient without even needing drugs. What these all have in common is that they legitimate the parents.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjR1PH41Vkg

    So they used to call this Munchausen’s Syndrome By Proxy. But now they are just calling it Medical Child Abuse. Usually they mean situations where the parents are fabricating the child’s illness. But when you have doctors who market their services for treating such bogus illnesses, it gets more complicated.

    What will stop this though is outside oversight, someone who is looking out for the rights of the child. Then the doctors will have to report, and the parents won’t be showing up at their door anymore.

    Existing law makes it a felony to not report a suspected case of child abuse, its just that the laws have not really been enforced as written. Sure I wish this were not necessary, but it is, as finding ways to establish that the child has a defect, and using doctors to do this, is one of the hallmarks of the middle-class family.

    We have to have outside oversight to protect children, otherwise it is all controlled by their parents, and by the doctors who market to them.

    And if people here object to Psych Meds, or to Forced Treatments, why aren’t they trying to get these outlawed? State initiatives would in my opinion be the best way.

    Nomadic

  • Yes, modern life can be extremely stressful, and more often than not marriages become part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    But hopefully we can all get to the point where we all know that not drugs, not psychiatry, and not psychotherapy are ever the solutions to the challenges we face. We all need to learn to feel our feelings when they come up, and to understand ourselves as fully as possible.

    A psychotherapist is never going to support this, because that would challenge their own denial systems. If this were not true, they would be a legal and political activist, not someone who profits off of another person’s misery.

    Nomadic

  • JohnH wrote, “… a measure of how they are doing … ”

    So are you saying that the objective is to feel better, become a happy camper? Doing these sorts of tests on people is certainly going to have the effect of making them feel that.

    How beaten down and broken do they have to be to even be willing to cooperate?

    I continue to say that the best response, and the only response we need, is the middle finger.

    Nomadic

  • A statistical link between childhood adversity and Bipolar Disorder is not surprising. But that could never be the entire story, because Bipolar Disorder does not even exist.

    Certainly child exploitation, of the type the middle-class family has been built around, is going to be the biggest factor in getting someone into the mental health system so that they can be given such a bogus diagnoses.

    We should be able to stop it from happening to children simply by making doctors comply with mandatory reporting in suspected cases of child abuse. This would put an end to the fix my kid industry. Now the culpability would all fall back onto the parents.

    Nomadic

  • My own view is that the idea that veterans come back from a war and are mentally ill, is nonsense.

    What is true is that they have experienced horrible things, and that our government does not want the public to know all of the things which are going on, like:

    1. Atrocities and campaigns of terror on enemy combatants and civilians.
    2. Fragging and friendly fire casualties.
    3. Simply that as it is now, these are unpopular and immoral wars, and most of the people who go are doing so simply because they have few other economic opportunities, so invariably they are already being looked down upon, and they are being taken advantage of.

    So yes, after such service one may well need a time of recuperation. But the more serious issue, which is being called PTSD or Mental Illness, is simply coming to terms with the lies which our society and these wars are being run on.

    I knew a guy from the UK, who had served 15 years in their army and was a sniper and had over 100 confirmed kills. He was said to have PTSD, and they wanted to drug him, but he preferred alcohol. But yes he was extremely jumpy. But I also listened to his stories. He had been on the wrong side in theater after theater. I feel that this was the real issue which made it so hard for him, just the fact that he had been used, not that he had some sort of a disorder.

    Nomadic

  • So David, what do you think we should do?

    Some are saying these drugs should be completely off the market.

    Others are saying that all we really need to do is stop forced treatment.

    What I say is that we should:

    1. Outlaw forced treatment.

    2. Outlaw any giving of psychiatric medications to children.

    3. Force doctors to comply with the law and report suspected cases of child abuse, including emotional child abuse, as that would completely destroy the FixMyKid Industry. Parents could not turn to doctors as the remedy for a souring relationship with their child, because they will be reported. And under current law, doctors who don’t report are committing a felony.

    Nomadic

  • If you try to oppose psychiatry, and try say to change laws to stop forced treatment, then most people are going to ask you, “What is your alternative”, because from their POV ~~~mental illness~~~ is real, and the streets are full of crazies who “need help”.

    So unless your opposition to psychiatry clearly opposes Therapy, Recovery, and Healing, then you will end up promoting them, and this is the problem.

    So then what is the alternative?

    Well first of all there is no need for any alternative because the claim that Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing are needed is completely bogus.

    But the answer to most all problems, all social injustice, is political organizing, and then political and legal action. And in fact, what Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing do is discourage this political organizing.

    So what I would say is, Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing are bogus, just more abuses targeted at abuse survivors. So lets now outlaw forced psychiatric procedures, the psychiatric drugging of children, and make these doctors comply with mandatory reporting and report suspected cases of child abuse, so that they cannot be accomplices of the parents.

    What we need is political organizing and political and legal action. So we should have something which does this, which I want to call The Restorative Justice Project.

    Thanks to Jim for this:
    http://psychrights.org/Research/Legal/25AkLRev51Gottstein2008.pdf

    Nomadic

  • “except when it’s accurate”

    What do you mean oldhead, are you saying that sometimes psychotherapy is “accurate”, and that as such it is a good thing?

    Your psychotherapist is not going to fight to redress the wrongs which have unfairly shaped your own life. Your psychotherapist is not going to do anything except keep depositing your checks in their bank account.

    And your psychotherapist is not a comrade, they are a commiserator. So even if the time and money mean nothing to you, this therapist is not someone you want to be knowing your personal affairs.

    If it were otherwise, then that person could not possibly be a therapist.

    Nomadic

  • Fear behind? Don’t even know what that would mean.

    But I do know that for a parent to start taking a child to doctors to try and fabricate an illness is what used to be called Munchausen’s Syndrome By Proxy. Today they just call it Medical Child Abuse.

    Trying to make a child believe that they have something wrong with them is most certainly emotional child abuse.

    As far as it being ADHD, that would be impossible because ADHD does not exist.

    Nomadic

  • lizadeeza, I’ve not seen your posts before. Welcome!

    I think a lot of it just comes down to whether or not one agrees with what is being attempted. If the answer is no, then it is a no exceptions completely black situation. And I say that we do need to take such stands, as our lives and the lives of others are at stake.

    We, The Survivors of the Middle-Class Family, will win our social legitimacy when we stop discussing our affairs with commiserators like therapists, and instead only talk with comrades; and when we stop looking to any kind of chemical fix me’s, prescription or street, to change the objective circumstances of our social and civil standing; and when we stop seeking or accepting pity, in the form of Recovery and Healing, or in any other form; and when we demonstrate that we will use whatever means are necessary to defend ourselves and the children of today.

    Now having said this, of course there are people with therapy licenses who don’t do therapy anymore. And there are all kinds of outside circumstances which can mitigate the middle-class family. And if anything is ever going to change, we need much more of this, ways of breaking down the middle-class family.

    Julie, I have never said anything about your parents or about you. And I’ve not said anything about your posts or about who does or does not read them, or about their appropriateness either.

    And I have never said that any specific person’s parents are abusive, or are middle-class.

    Now as far as shrinks, I have never said even a single kind word about them.

    I feel that I do understand what you are saying about shrinks, and about how they treat people, such as veterans. And of course I am appalled, though not at all surprised.

    Notice that I have never said anything like Good Family vs Bad Family. I’ve done everything I can to strip that kind of thinking out of my head. And so then, I’ve never tried to separate Good Family People from Bad Family People.

    My above reply to Oldhead shows the key concepts about The Middle-Class Family. This is not a new area of inquiry. That the middle-class lives in Bad Faith is the central theme of the work of Jean-Paul Sartre, and I have tried to show this. And then with Simone de Beauvoir this is also the central theme in each of her five novels, as well as in Second Sex.

    And then Deleuze and Guattari’s Anti-Oedipus also depends upon this, though the full ramifications are not apparent until the 4th and last division. Never do they ever give voice to anything which tries to distinguish the Good from the Bad, or the abusive from the non-abusive.

    And this is the key to their breaking from the views and Bateson and Laing.

    To Be Continued

    Nomadic

    Recent post about moving from Munchausen’s By Proxy to Medical Child Abuse
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/msbp-t323.html#p791

  • So Alex, do you agree that in large measure, ADHD is the invention of FixMyKid Doctors?

    Some of them use drugs, but some do not. Right now these two groups are competing for share in the FixMyKid market. Of the second type, we’ve all seen their ads.

    It was many years ago, reading the works of Salvador Minuchin and the Milan School of Family Systems Therapy:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_therapy

    an earlier edition of:
    https://www.amazon.com/Working-Families-Second-Guilford-Therapy/dp/1593853475/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    They clued me into something critical, one of the defining characteristics of the middle-class family is that it hires its own private practice doctors. It does not use public agencies which serve the poor. So it is not just the pedagogy and child development manuals which characterize it, it is also the use of all sorts of doctors. And as I see it, mostly it is just that the parents want to be right, as this is why they had children.

    Do you agree with me, that these doctors are routinely seeing kids who show sufficient evidence to warrant suspicion of severe emotional abuse, and that likely each one of these hoax ailments like ADHD is really just an excuse for severe emotional child abuse?

    And so do you agree with me that these doctors should be made to comply with the letter and intent of our federal mandatory reporting law, or face prosecution?

    Of course you know that that would be the end of the FixMyKid industry.

    https://www.minnpost.com/community-voices/2009/02/mondale-led-effort-against-child-abuse-now-congress-must-re-engage

    Family life in Pittsburg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjR1PH41Vkg

    Does the thought of some of these doctors being charged with felonies, and the entire FixMyKid industry being plowed under, arouse any particular feelings in you?

    You know that unless forced to, the doctors would never report, and that it has always been this way.

    Nomadic

  • Thank you Bonnie for clarifying that. I think the misunderstanding did start with the Huffington Post.

    I like that better that your initiative will be part of this OISE.

    An Anti-Psychiatry program in a medical school would invariably end up treating patients, and so it would be another version of Therapy, Recovery, Healing, i.e. part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    An Anti-Psychiatry program with OISE would be fine.

    I have also suggested a Restorative Justice Project. It would consist of Attorneys, Forensic Psychologists, Sociologists, and Political Scientists.

    This would never do anything resembling psychotherapy. But it would engage in legislative and political activism, and it would sue the pants off of Psychiatrists, Psychotherapists, Big Pharma, and Parents.

    Nomadic

  • Frank, the reason we have mandatory reporting laws is to prevent any type of doctors or others who work with children from becoming accomplice child abusers. This is the original intent. I would say that as it stands now, going by the letter of the law, a doctor who sees a child who is clearly displaying signs of extreme emotional abuse, but does not report, is committing a felony. And this applies whether they treat the child or not.

    I know someone with our county hospital and she teaches the class on mandatory reporting. She says, “You report *EVERYTHING*”, that is they err on the side of compliance. And you don’t know, your small complaint could be the one which, added onto others, prompts action.

    Thing is, the private practice doctors seem to take a much lighter attitude towards reporting. Their business model requires that the parents always be held blameless. And often they make this interpretation clear in their promotionals. Otherwise they would get no patients.

    The middle-class family has always revolved around hiring doctors. And so doctors seem to be involved in a majority of middle-class child abuse cases.

    Our federal law since 1974 was intended to prevent this. But here we have this ADHD hoax, and it seems to be the creation of the FixMyKid doctors.

    One problem is that there is vagueness in the mandatory reporting laws. And as it stands today, the authorities already get more complaints of suspected child abuse than they can do anything at all with.

    But the intent of the law is that doctors cannot become accomplice child abusers, and that if they do they are committing a felony.

    Excellent Book:
    https://www.amazon.com/Childism-Confronting-Prejudice-Against-Children/dp/0300192401

    You see my point, that if the doctors actually had to comply with the law, then this industry would vanish, as would all of its hoax ailments and the drugging of children.

    Nomadic

  • Oldhead, here is an excellent description of what “middle-class” means, though this John Mierriman prefers to say “middle-classes”, and he explains why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEk1JAkyvj4

    What is most important about it here is that it is a way of thinking, rather than an income or consumption level. It is a reactionary way of thinking. It is something people adopt in order to justify themselves.

    And then one of the points Merriman tries to make is, “The Middle-Class invented childhood.”

    Where that idea comes from:

    Ariès remains the standard reference to the topic. Ariès is most famous for his statement that “in medieval society, the idea of childhood did not exist”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Ari%C3%A8s
    and he worked closely with Michel Foucault.

    And then about the middle-classes:


    One of the most important implications of bad faith is the abolition of traditional ethics. Being a “moral person” requires one to deny authentic impulses (everything that makes us human) and allow the will of another person to change one’s actions. Being “a moral person” is one of the most severe forms of bad faith. Sartre essentially characterizes this as “the faith of bad faith” which is and should not be, in Sartre’s opinion, at the heart of one’s existence. Sartre has a very low opinion of conventional ethics, condemning it as a tool of the bourgeoisie to control the masses.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_and_Nothingness

    So usually the way this is said is, “The bourgeoisie lives in Bad-Faith”.

    And this is repeated in Deleuze and Guattari.

    And now inserting my own read on this, this Bad Faith takes and incredible tool on the children of the bourgeoisie, and it is the source of most parent v child conflict. Today, children are the exploited workers, being used to give identity to the adults.

    And then another important thing about these middle-classes / bourgeoisie is that in the industrialized countries today there is no other class.

    In France they took over in 1789. In the United States there really never was any other class, because with low cost land, the American Dream was so pervasive.

    This idea is explained many places, such as Deleuze and Guattari’s Anti-Oedipus, and Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri’s Multitude and Commonwealth. Really, it is central to the above works. And so both of these teams, as well as many others, have in effect rewritten the Communist Manifesto.

    So let me ask you this Oldhead, do you agree with me that the ideas of Therapy, Recovery, and Healing are simply a way of turning people’s problems back on themselves and discouraging them from organizing and talking legal and political actions?

    Nomadic

  • Julie, it is you, not I, who keep making comments about people’s “backgrounds”. And I find that to be improper. Do you disagree?

    I oppose the practice of psychotherapy on a moral basis.

    “The practice of psychotherapy is wrong because it is profiting off of another person’s misery”
    https://www.amazon.com/Against-Therapy-Emotional-Tyranny-Psychological-ebook/dp/B008KPZRDW/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

    Do you disagree with this?

    And I have never said that psychological distress has to come from either genetic inferiority, or from early childhood trauma.

    What I have said is:

    Hardly any of the ‘symptoms’ of psychological distress may correctly be seen as medical matters. The so-called psychiatric ‘disorders’ are nothing to do with faulty biology, nor indeed are they the outcome of individual moral weakness or other personal failing. They are the creation of the social world in which we live, and that world is structured by power.
    Social power may be defined as the means of obtaining security or advantage, and it will be exercised within any given society in a variety of forms: coercive (force), economic (money power) and ideological (the control of meaning). Power is the dynamic which keeps the social world in motion. It may be used for good or for ill.

    http://www.davidsmail.info/introfra.htm

    Do you disagree with this?

    Nomadic

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I

    http://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagepreviews/HL_DDS_0000000000460900.png

  • jbnorton wrote,

    “The goal is that after just a few sessions, spread out over a period of a few months, there will be no more need for the psychiatric medications that are prescribed for DAILY USE FOR AN INDETERMINATE PERIOD OF TIME. Sorry to yell, but I hope you realize that this is a huge threat to the pharmaceutical industry.”

    Sorry jb, but I do not agree. I know there are lots of literate pro-drug people who are admired. But I do not agree with them.

    I’m not even really talking about trauma and abuse. People get exploited in the family, and then they get exploited other ways too, like economically, being sent off to unjust wars, negative intimate relationships, negative work environments.

    No dissociation will ever help.

    As far as really knowing that it is not their fault, I agree with you. But the way to come to that is by close self-scrutiny and careful study, and by political and legal activism. Being able to politically organize is the most important thing, and just like with therapy, drugs interfere.

    So I stand by what I have said.

    Thanks for your comments though.

    Nomadic

  • Camille, has your therapist ever gotten a civil judgment on behalf of a client? Ever helped put a perpetrator in prison ( I have !! ).

    Has your therapist ever done anything to bring about justice, instead of just showing empathy ( actually pity ) and telling people that they just have to live with their situation.

    I mean maybe there could be one on the planet somewhere? Do you know of one?

    Nomadic

  • Jordan, are you saying that you were cured of ADHD, or do you believe as I do that there is no such thing as ADHD?

    So then did neurofeedback perhaps cure you of the effects of emotional child abuse? Did it cure you, or was it just another way to shift the focus on to the survivor and away from the perpetrators?

    Nomadic

  • Philip, some have posted that once they meet the parents, why the child might be behaving strangely becomes obvious.

    Do you think these alleged cases of ADHD ( bogus illness ) are simply cases of familial conflict, and going so far that we could say that it constitutes emotional abuse?

    And so do you agree with me that following both the letter and intent of the Child Abuse and Neglect Act that doctors and therapists are required to report such cases, whether they treat them or not, and that failure to do so constitutes a felony?

    Do you also agree that the intent of mandatory reporting was to stop doctors from continuing to be complicit in child abuse?

    Do you agree that simply enforcing mandatory reporting would put an end to this ADHD Hoax, and then lot of similar things as well?

    Nomadic

  • Jim,

    Frank B. is primarily concerned with eliminating forced psychiatric procedures.

    I also want this, but just so long as in so doing no one is advocating for the concept of mental illness, or for therapy, recovery, or healing, or otherwise seeking pity.

    Now anything which goes thru a state legislature is subject to negotiation and amendment. So if you have a simple but revolutionary idea, I have suggested a state initiative. Often this is how radical changes occur.

    So what do you think about this idea, and has anyone ever tried it. I have suggested starting in Vermont.

    Has anyone chronicled the forced procedure laws and actual practices state by state and for other countries?

    It will of course be necessary to have answers for the common sorts of objections.

    Nomadic

  • Frank, If you want to outlaw forced Psychiatric Procedures, I am with you, just so long as in so doing you are not advocating Therapy, Recovery, or Healing.

    In my previous post I suggested doing it by initiative and starting with Vermont.

    I like those 1982 principles because they address the most obvious objections. Has anyone done a study of law and actual practice state by state and in other countries? A web site should be made to track it, just like we track SOL Reform for child sexual molestation.

    Have you looked at this, provided by JimG, to see what they are doing?
    http://narpa.org/

    Nomadic

  • What do you want to put to a vote, whether or not Psychoanalysis and Psychotherapy are completely wrong headed? And considering the fact that most of the articles here are posted by people promoting the concepts of Therapy, Recovery, and Healing?

    I’m doing everything I can to oppose them and to call attention to the fact that they are bogus.

    Do you know what they call people who speak truth?

    Answer: Mentally Ill

    Nomadic

  • CatNight, but even the concept of Recovery means that the patient is not alright the way that they are.

    If someone does you wrong, your innate impulse is going to be to strike back. That is how life is affirmed and perpetuated. But Psychiatry, Psychoanalysis, Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing are all designed to make that wrong, and instead make you see the problem as being within yourself.

    So long as people go along with Recovery and the related ideas, nothing is ever going to change.

    Do you agree?

    Nomadic

  • JimG, I agree with your three pronged approach:

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2011/12/a-three-pronged-approach-to-mental-health-system-change/

    Public Attitudes, Other Choices, Strategic Litigation. Failing to understand this is why the Anti-Psychiatry Movement is stalled. Have to deal with the world people live in. This means we have to deal with Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing, and with the child exploitation which the middle-class family is built upon.

    We need lawyers, not therapists. We need to make strategic lawsuits. Doctors who prescribe drugs for bogus illnesses, Therapists who market a FixMyKid service and violate mandatory reporting, and parents who scapegoat their child, should all be getting sued.

    And count me as a Hazardous Duty Process Server, reporting for duty.

    Do you know of any forum where these legal issues are talked about and where we can see the current high water marks? People trying to do something about these problems, rather than getting lost in Recovery and Healing.

    Thanks,
    Nomadic

  • Why would anti-depressants ever be given to a pregnant woman, or to anybody else either?

    Why are people not protesting in front of hospitals and clinics?

    Nomadic

    “Given the fact that Black people have abandoned the non-functional and ineffective tactics of the “Civil Rights” era and have now resolved to attain their long overdue liberation by any means necessary, it has become necessary for the oppressor to deploy more occupation forces into the Black colony.”

    Read and learn:
    https://www.marxists.org/history/usa/workers/black-panthers/1970/dope.htm

  • Drugs don’t have side effects, they just have effects. With these kinds of drugs they are intended to make you doubt your own intelligence, awareness, and memory. And they are intended to pacify you, make you less assertive, and destroy your will to live. And then of course this completely destroys your sexuality.

    What we need are not Therapy, Recovery, and Healing, we need lawyers and political activists.

    Nomadic

    “Pathological religionism or the fanatical indulgence in religion is essentially escapist because it encourages the victim to concentrate his attention, energy and hope for salvation and freedom upon a dubious, mystical force. It discourages confronting the actual causes of our misery and deprivation. It encourages the focusing of attention upon pie in the sky, rather than the securing of more lamb chops right here on planet earth. It also serves as a source of profits for those religious charlatans, preachers and ministers who exploit it.”
    https://www.marxists.org/history/usa/workers/black-panthers/1970/dope.htm

  • And Oldhead, “projection”?

    That sounds like another way of declining to engage with injustice, by stigmatizing the complainant. Yes, this is what Psychanalysis and Psychotherapy do.

    This is why people can exploit their children and know that there will never be any consequences.

    This is why we have legions of people sleeping under bridges and in jungles, and never understanding that their chance of having a place in this world was interdicted long before they reached even adolescence, always ready for the next one who offers them salvation.

    Nomadic

  • Oldhead,

    If people believe that their memory, intellect, and awareness are the enemy ( known in religious circles as Satan ), then the game is already over. They will always be going for drugs, therapy, or Getting Saved.

    Class Action lawsuits are a great way to respond to institutional and corporate injustice. In some states it only takes 6 to get it started.

    So with each of these drugs, given out for no legitimate medical reason, sue! We need lawyers, not therapists.

    And then the FixMyKid doctors, marketing to the parents what they want to hear, and violating mandatory reporting, class action law suit.

    Nothing naïve about this!

    And then to stop middle-class child abuse by taking the profit out of it, change a few laws:
    https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/10/turning-tables-using-academy-battle-psychiatry/#comment-96845

    You want to solve problems, you go into court, or you get laws changed. You don’t preach Libertarianism or 12-Step Powerlessness.

    Nomadic

  • Yes, Steve, life is extremely stressful and people often do break down. We don’t have communities, people are out there on their own, and with no backup. Sometimes they just can’t take it.

    But Steve, if we go along with the idea that the solution to problems is found in Therapy, Recovery, and Healing, then we are simply telling people that it is wrong to be angry and that they have to accept things the way they are, and that they can’t expect justice.

    Would you Steve be willing to sign on to a message denouncing Therapy, Recovery, and Healing as the solutions to problems. People need community, but this has to be centered on political and legal activism, not just on talking people down or out of their anger, or on making them feel better.

    Nomadic

  • Frank wrote and Oldhead quoted:


    The notion that “mental illnesses” are “biological” supports psychiatry in its medical pretensions.

    Of course this is true. But there is also a larger issue which is not being addressed. And it is all the more important as Foucault’s name has been introduced, and as I see it, this is without understanding.

    Even if a therapist is promoting their services without specific claims to DSM or a biological basis, there is still a big problem. Foucault’s main idea about psychiatry is that it is supposedly curing MORAL DEFECT, and that this is it’s justification. So the medical claim is secondary.

    So when an angry person is being told that they “need therapy”, they are being told that they have a moral problem. Whether or not it is medical is secondary.

    And then a central theme of Foucault’s work is that the coercion has become non-physical. It works by subjectification. You make the person believe that if they are distressed or not complying with some norm or standard, that they have a problem. So the central actor here is psychotherapy, without need to direct coercion, drugs, or medical claims.

    So I say that it is only a small portion of the population which has ever been exposed to forced treatment, or at risk of it.

    But all of us who refuse to accept the legitimating discourses behind the Middle-Class Family, Capitalism, Psychiatry, or Psychotherapy, are under continuing attack and marginalization, 24 hours a day and 365 days per year. Anyone who is discontented is always told that they need therapy, recovery, healing, or Jesus.

    So this non-medical, non-physical coercion is the most present threat and it does the most to shape our society and our everyday experiences.

    I would never be part of anything unless it took a position against Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing, even if its legislative efforts were confined to ending forced treatment.

    So Frank and I are going door to door trying to invite people to our Anti-Psychiatry meeting. What do we hear?

    Sorry, I’ve got an appointment with my therapist that night. I’ve been angry with lots of things that lately, and I need my therapist to talk me out of my anger.

    Sorry, I’m meeting secretary for a Co-Dependents Anonymous Meeting, so I need to be there. Without our meeting people wouldn’t know that they need to just let go, anytime there are problems.

    Sorry, My son has Oppositional Defiant Disorder, and so I have to take him to his therapist regularly, otherwise he gets hard to handle.

    Oh you know, I used to be just like you, rebellious. But then I found Jesus.

    Nomadic

    Capitalism Plus Dope Equals Genocide
    https://www.marxists.org/history/usa/workers/black-panthers/1970/dope.htm

  • Oldhead, if you helped in the drafting of these 1982 principles, that is something you have every right to be proud of.

    Principles adopted by 1982 gathering of psychiatric survivors:
    http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/act/movement-history/1982-principles/

    And if this was coming out of Vermont, that is also interesting.

    Frank, if your main concern is to eliminate forced psychiatric procedures, then although I also want other things, I am with you.

    I object to MindFreedom and to many many things said in MIA articles, because they are endorsing Psychotherapy, Recovery and Healing. But if you want a law that does nothing but abolish forced procedures, I am with you.

    And these 1982 principles are great because they speak to the main arguments in favor of forced procedures, the temporary involuntary commitments, insane at time of crime, not sane enough to stand trial. They reject all of these.

    So yes, a law to eliminate forced procedures.

    Sometimes a simple idea, which nonetheless could have broad sweeping ramifications, is better addressed by the initiative process. Anything which goes thru a state legislature is subject to negation and amendment. But with an initiative, people can vote yes or no. That’s it.

    Interesting that this came out of Vermont. Because thinking about this, that was where I was going to recommend trying first.

    Anyplace where you have a large rich versus poor tension, or where there are racial tensions, or urban versus rural tensions, or where suburbs are exiting metros as a form of race based tax secession, or where the politics are defined by high profile crimes, or where people feel that they need to be carrying firearms to be safe, or where people worry about who is saved and who is not, then they are going to believe in Mental Illness. Fear of the Other, and feeling that they have a need to delegitimate them, are what drive this.

    So Northeast ( initially excluding Massachusetts and Connecticut ) and then Northwest. After that try Colorado and Minnesota.

    In some of these places you could even make it a constitutional amendment. Makes it very hard to ever get around it.

    Should work, and I am with you. I agree with the 1982 Principles and the underlying logic.

    In the Sunbelt you have Born Again Christianity and Pyramid Scams. In the Northeast and Northwest, you have strong support for organized labor, so that is where a ban on forced procedures should work.

    Just one caveat. I don’t think forced procedures are a very large piece of the mental health hoax anymore. But I agree that forced procedures are one of the key legal justifications for the entire hoax.

    So to do much, you need Comrades. And this is where it could get complicated.

    Here is my proposed federal law, countering Murphy:

    1. All forced psychiatric procedures and keeping of psychiatric records are abolished.

    2. No giving of psychiatric medications to children, now a mid-level felony.

    3. Mandatory reporting clarified and strengthened, so that doctors, therapists and others who work with children, but do not report suspected cases of child abuse, will be subject to mandatory arrest. ( wipes out the entire FixMyKid industry )

    4. Parents cannot scapegoat a child, as now they can easily be sued, and disinheritance of a child is prohibited, as it is in most all of the industrialized world. Power is transferred from the testators to the heirs. Middle-Class child abuse is no longer profitable.

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/our-own-bill-to-counter-murphy-t359.html

    Nomadic

  • Hispanohablante Editors, Welcome.

    What I know by observation about hispanohablante culture in the United States, and from reading about it in the rest of North America and in South America is that the majority of the people have not really adapted to middle-class thinking. And so in complete contradiction to the hegemonic white American culture, family actually means something other than a nightmare. People actually like each other, and they support and care for each other.

    And so long as this lack of acceptance of middle-class values remains, I believe that the level of familial scapegoating and of so called ‘mental illness’ will be low. A non-issue really.

    Now when this is no longer true, is when a Hispanic family has become Pentecostal. If you see that, people getting Saved, then you know that there are family scapegoats, spousal abuse, alcohol, street drugs, psychiatric medication, and that children are having to live in absolutely insane environments.

    But until this kind of disaster happens, there should be no problem.

    So it is good that you are learning about the problems with the mental health system, as it will eventually be effecting you too. But until this happens, I would not want to think that you could inadvertently become a vector for the contamination of only partially industrialized countries with the destructive patterns of middle-class thinking.

    Nomadic

  • It does not surprise me at all that the use of such medications correlates with dementia, and even to such an extent that we should say that they are causing dementia.

    But is this the only reason we should be opposing the use of such drugs?

    Parents settle family conflicts by driving their kid to a doctor and getting the child drugged. And then there are other doctors who get the kid off of drugs. These two types of doctors are in competition with each other. Or maybe you could say that they are in collaboration.

    The reason we have laws which mandate reporting in suspected cases of child abuse, is simply that a huge portion of middle-class child abuse involves the use of doctors. But neither these pro-drug or anti-drug FixMyKid doctors seems to think that the law applies to them. If they had to comply with the law, they would either be out of business or in prison.

    And then if we oppose these drugs because they cause dementia, what happens when someone walks into their doctor’s office and is told that there is a new drug; it is expensive, but their insurance covers it; and it is believed to be better than any drugs ever offered?

    I say we should be opposing any and all use of chemical mood alterants as a means of trying to solve life’s problems. We should also be opposing Psychotherapy, the Recovery Movement, the concept of Healing, and Evangelical Religion.

    Instead we should be focusing on political consciousness raising and legal and political action. Everything about the Mental/Moral Health System is designed to keep people down. So we should not cooperate with any part of it; we must reject all of it.

    https://www.marxists.org/history/usa/workers/black-panthers/1970/dope.htm

    Nomadic

  • Justin, you write,

    “infants are more likely to develop speech or language disorders if they are exposed to antidepressants during pregnancy.”

    But why on earth would this ever happen; how are pregnant women getting access to anti-depressants? Why are we studying this phenomenon, instead of just preventing it?

    And then another thing immediately recognizable from your article title, researchers are always saying that there is a correlation between parents or pregnant mothers smoking tobacco, and autism in their child.

    So they are looking for a chemical cause.

    Well first of all, there is no such thing as autism, masterfully explained here:
    https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medicalising-Emotional-Competence/dp/0230545262/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1477430321&sr=1-9

    Second, there shouldn’t be parents exposing their child to tobacco smoke, pre-natally or any other way.

    And third, while there may be some chemical effect going on, there is another very obvious explanation to what is going on. Parents who smoke, in all likelihood are just really out of it. They use that as an escape.

    So while this, or damage to this “parenting instinct” could not cause autism, because autism does not exist, there still could be some effect from having a parent who is “out of it”, and from the isolation which is particular to the middle-class family.

    So with these psychiatric meds, there could be a chemical effect on the child, but there could also just be a similar effect, that of being locked in that nightmare world of the middle-class home, with a parent who is just “out of it”.

    Nomadic

  • My position has for decades been that no one should ever accept any kind of a psychiatric label, or disability label.

    But along with this idea, I also say, don’t ever cooperate with talk therapists, social workers, or any form of psychotherapists.

    We should be printing up warning cards which people can carry, cards which threaten a lawsuit if there preference for privacy is ever violated.

    Part of the problem is that having moved into the Information Age and a global economy, our society no longer needs much labor. So instead it tries to create basket cases, people who’s entire lives are run by public health care and social services.

    And then often accepting these disability labels is necessary for people to get various kinds of benefits. I don’t fault those who do this either. But I do hope understanding can be spread, as right now most public assistance and disability programs are run for the purpose of shaming, humiliating, and regulating the poor.

    Back to the late 60’s, the Piven and Cloward Plan was a truly visionary approach to such problems, and we would do well to study it.

    So my advice is always zero cooperation, give them zero information, don’t discuss anything with them.

    But I also understand that most people don’t see it this way.

    We need to do political consciousness raising, and we need to be finding ways to take legal action. What we don’t need are Psychotherapy, Recovery, Healing, or Getting Saved.

    Nomadic

  • Interesting. I have read of the state of West Virginia, that there is a very high level of use of prescription pain killers, particularly Oxycontin. It is so severe that people are calling West Virginians “Pill Billies”.

    Now I am always skeptical when a stereotype about a region, like Appalachia, is being expanded. I have to wonder if West Virginia is really that much different from anywhere else in that region, or in the rest of the country.

    But I do take note of the issue though. We have been taught to see drug addiction as a problem centered among ethnic minorities and in major urban centers. But it seems though that this is often not even close to true. I read that either Oklahoma City or Fresno California are the methamphetamine capitals, and that it is mainly a white drug. What Oklahoma City and Fresno have in common is a great deal of economic dislocation in the last decade.

    And then we have been taught to see prescription medicines and street drugs as completely separate. But I don’t see it this way at all.

    Usually the medical profession has been opposed to any new forms of regulation. For one thing, this would lower the very high standing in which most people hold doctors, and hence lower the profession’s money earning potential.

    Now when people are dying, while in a doctor’s care, and seemingly from medicine overdoses, something does need to be done. Maybe some greater records keeping and oversight procedure, so you could see what people were being prescribed, and why, and in what dosages.

    That way, there could be some intervention when records are not being kept accurately, and before there is any pattern of harm.

    But as to the overall issue of using chemicals to alter mood, I oppose it. I am not saying that criminalization is the answer. But I think people need to be asked to really look at their logic.

    Recently on MIA:

    Saying that opioids interfere with some “parenting instinct”. Well what if there were not true, would they then be okay. And do we really want to be testing people over such things?

    Saying that LSD and psychedelics are more effective than psychotherapy. Well is that really the way we want to be looking at things?

    Giving detailed information about the effects of using benzos, but not taking a clear anti-drug position of any type, and not showing the fallacies involved in the purpose behind the drugs.

    My view is that in order to fight back, we have to reject all drugs and alcohol, and also escapist ideologies like evangelical religion and the recovery movement, and also psychotherapy.

    https://www.marxists.org/history/usa/workers/black-panthers/1970/dope.htm

    Nomadic

  • What this article is suggesting could be true. But why are people even looking at it from that vantage point, instead of just getting people to feel their pain, and get rid of the drugs, and get rid of the Psychothearpy, the Recovery, and the Healing too.

    When people can join forces and fight shoulder to shoulder to redress the injustices which have shaped their lives and the lives of others, they grow. They aren’t neurotic anymore. They can tell Psychiatrists, Psychotherapists, Recoveryists and Healers where to get off. They won’t make the mistake of disclosing any of their personal affairs to these creeps because they are Commiserators, and not Comrades.

    When people learn to join forces and fight back, they can intercede to protect children too, as so much of the pathologizing is being directed at children now. The Middle-Class Family has always depended on being able to retain doctors in order to exploit children. And arguments about things like Parenting Instinct are going to be a part of this, because as Foucault has shown us, arguments about what is Natural, are always used to control.

    So rather than discussing what opioids do, just tell people to hand the entire package, unopened, to either their own attorney or they County DA.

    Otherwise they will still remain susceptible to the new drug, or combination of drugs, which get into circulation.

    Nomadic

  • If someone is displaying behaviors which are characterized as ~~~OCD~~~, then most likely they are under stress, under pressure, and living with a compromised social legitimacy.

    So telling them that they have some sort of a disorder and need psychotherapy in order to be made passably acceptable to most people most of the time, is predatory abuse. I say predatory because it preys on those who have already been humiliated and denigrated until they are made vulnerable.

    So it is important that we stand with those, adults and children, who are being fed this, and stand with them as they tell off the disorder doctors and the psychologists.

    And then if this is being done to children, parents driving them to FixMyKid doctors, then either those doctors are reporting each case to Child Protective Services, or they need to be charged with felonies.

    Nomadic

  • Julie and Bonnie, you both speak about community. I also feel that this is where our efforts should be focused. And I am pursuing my own plans here too.

    But I would like to call people’s attention to just a few things.

    First we can find active communes right here. I’ve watched this for decades now.
    http://www.ic.org/communities-magazine-home/

    But most communes seem not to last much longer than the life of the founder.

    And it is one thing to just talk about community, as some sort of a transcendent virtue, and another to actually have a community.

    The ones which have lasted are religious celibate communities. And these, you could say, usually operate by taking money off of the general population, a sort of a con game really.

    There had been in England and the Netherlands the Brotherhood of the Common Life, and this was not based on celibacy. It clearly influenced Thomas More, author of Utopia.

    And then there have been in the US, Oneida, and LDS. And both of these, to a degree changed the rules about sex. When you are able to do this, you usually both become rich, and also incur a great deal of enmity. Even a modest degree of economic communalism yields huge advantages. This will always be resented. And then if it is known that it is the result of sexual changes, then it will be much worse than just enmity.

    So it does seem like the rules of money and the rules of sex are always inseparably intertwined.

    And then there was Rajnesh / Osho. I met some of his people in the earl 80’s, and I was not very impressed with them. But in the decades since I have read many many books about the movement. I am convinced that if it worked at all, it was when they were back in Puna India.

    It is interesting because their group was anything but celibate.

    Anyway, I ask people to look now at just how much the ideas about mental health and moral or proper behavior are related to Capitalism and the Middle-Class Family, and to such an extent that you really can’t look at psychiatry or psychotherapy, or the idea of recovery either, without first understanding this broader set of norms from which it all emerges.

    If you want there to be community, and that being more than just an abstract idea, I feel that you do have to find ways to change the rules about money, property, and sex. It takes time to do this. But you also have to get people to the point where instead of just tuning out or practicing Live and Let Live, they actually want to start fighting back.

    Psychotherapy, Psychiatry, and Recovery suppress political consciousness, and this is why they exist. They make it just about impossible to politically organize.

    Nomadic

  • Frank wrote,

    “You’re over extending yourself, Nomadic. Anti-psychiatry is not anti-recovery, anti-psychotherapy, and anti-healing. Nor is it anti-middle-class-family. Nor is it anti-self-reliance-ethic. Let’s take one definition at a time, and go from there.”

    Yes Frank, that is my point. Anti-Psychiatry does not go far enough. For one thing it is not at all well defined. I know that it does not extend into the areas you speak of, and we are using a 1982 definition.

    http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/act/movement-history/1982-principles/

    For the issues, as they looked in 1982, I feel that this definition was very good, better than what I had expected, because they take apart most of the justifications for forced treatment.

    But today the situation is very different:

    1. Such a high portion of the “procedures” are directed at children, and this is only going to be increasing.

    http://hope4mentalhealth.com/

    And I say that all such procedures against children should be considered as forced, and that as there are clearly already family conflicts, the parents have to be considered disqualified as any type of arbiters of what is best for the child.

    2. Most drug ingestion and DSM diagnosings are voluntary. So while not coercive, I still feel that it has to be treated as a public health problem, just like you would if the number of heroin addicts was doubling. And then with the forced procedures, I believe that underlying most of these is some history of voluntary procedures.

    3. Recovery and Therapy may be things which adults are voluntarily going along with, and between consenting adults I would not ever try to outlaw them. But we also have to understand that almost no one would ever go along with this unless they had been led to believe in a personal moral defect, and this almost always is going to come from the Middle-Class Family and it is the basis of the Self-Reliance Ethic, and it undermines our democracy and our economy, as well as just our health and well being. So at a minimum we should be offering alternatives.

    I say also that we should not be allowing our government to issue licenses to psychotherapists.

    If there where a huge increase in the number of people seeing fortune tellers or phrenologists, maybe there would not be anything which should be done about it. But if the government were issuing licenses, and if these were making it harder for people to sue for recompense, and then if this was making it harder for children to sue for recompense, because of the licensing, then something would be wrong. Licensing requirements are supposed to be protecting the unwary public. But licensing psychotherapists is protecting con artists and exploiters from being held accountable for their actions, and it is saying that parents can employ these people to subdue their children, with no fear of redress.

    And along these same lines I must say that I don’t think it is ever going to work out to teach Anti-Psychiatry in U Toronto’s Medical School. Either it won’t happen, or what does happen will be so compromised that it is part of the problem instead of part of the solution. Anti-Psychiatry has to be broadened, and it has to operate on the outside of the power structures and technologies of power to which it is opposed.

    Clergy Spiritual Counseling, while I probably would not agree with most of the things they say, the degree of the damage is still limited because they are not being issued licenses.

    Nathan, I don’t remember seeing you before. Welcome. You wrote,

    “I think anti-psychiatry is actually weak when NOT inclusive of a critique of professional mental healthcare – including psychotherapy, psychology, social work, alternatie healers etc.”

    I agree 100%

    Nomadic

    Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

  • Oldhead, no, most of the people I’ve spoken of are not really Anti-Psychiatry, or at least I don’t think they are. But that’s because the movement is not well defined, so most people don’t really even know if they are anti-psychiatry or not.

    And one might indeed recover from a bad experience. But this is not how the term Recovery is used. When you live in a world of complete injustice, you don’t recover from that. What you might try to do is find comrades and organize, and fight back, and find some way to at least mitigate the circumstances. But no you don’t “recover”. Remember, the whole problem, every where you go, is that everyone is trying to make it like you yourself are the problem, simply because you won’t accept that things are as they are. And I say also that what it really comes down to is that you are for some reason not complying with the standards and expectations of the middle-class family. Matthen Warren, worked on by Psychotherapists, Psychiatrists, and Prayer Warriors for his entire life, until at the age of 27 he took his own life.

    And then sometimes Recovery is not overtly tied to the medical model, but it is still tied to a self-improvement and moral rehabilitation model. It means measuring up to the expectations of the middle-class family, specifically the self-reliance ethic.

    I go with David Smail, saying that there is no moral or mental improvement that we need. Psychological distress is caused by living without power, without social legitimacy.

    Nothing like “Recovery” is ever going to remedy this. The concept is merely a whitewashed religious approach to saying that one needs to Get Saved.

    Julie wrote, “Psychotherapy, if it upholds the disease/defective brain model, even when practiced as taught, is abusive by default. This may be my opinion only, but if we are to endorse peer support or Soteria models, then I think we also need to endorse models that might be called “help” but are totally outside the box. ”

    I agree Psychotherpy is by default abusive.

    Now, she goes on to talk about Soteria, Coaching, and Social Workers, and not using a disease or medical model. And you Oldhead are saying that people don’t automatically absorb the medical model when they go for Psychotherapy.

    Well, Foucault’s work on the subject started with showing, whether it is explicitly laid out or not, that the entire Mental Health system is rooted in the idea of sin and salvation.

    And so then today, whether or not it is explicitly laid out, if you deal with a Life Coach or a Social worker, they are still fucking with your head, talking whatever information you are foolish enough to give them, and making it like you have some need for improvement. They may pitch it medically, or as salvation status, or probably just as being for your own good. They are still taking the position that you are someone who is in need of remedial instruction. They are still saying that your parents didn’t make you learn, that you are not measuring up to the self-reliance ethic.

    And what lets them do this is imply the fact that you have disclosed personal information to them, instead of just telling them where to stick it. It’s either that, or its because they hold some sort of administrative power and they have been told to put petitioners through some sort of ritual humiliations, and so you have to play along with them.

    And I know that this is how it would be with Bonnie’s emotional healers, in her dystopia.

    Nomadic

  • I want to talk more about this list of 1982 principles:

    Principles adopted by 1982 gathering of psychiatric survivors:
    http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/act/movement-history/1982-principles/

    First of all I am very impressed with this list because they have thought through the ramifications, in that the traditional justification for forced procedures has always been suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts, presumed danger to self or others, and not being competent to stand criminal trial. This group has considered all of these, and it has rejected all of them, and it wants an unequivocal ban on all forced procedures, and it gives extremely good reasons.

    But why is it not like this on Mad In America, why are people writing letters of appeasement to the Boston Globe, and trying to evoke pity?

    Why are people advocating and even advertising psychotherapy, which while not forced, has nothing whatsoever to do with advancing these 1982 Principles?


    12. We oppose the psychiatric system because it feeds on the poor and powerless, the elderly, women, children, sexual minorities, people of colour and ethnic groups.

    Okay, well here on Mad In America we have people posting of whom I find it undeniable that they have been kicked in the teeth and stepped on their entire lives, and that was before they were thrown into the psychiatric system and drugged and told by Psychotherapists that it is they themselves who are the problem. And so are they being offered any way of understanding why our society works that way, and of what has been taken from them and of how we are organizing to fight back? Not as far as I can see. All I am hearing about is how people believe in and offer Therapy, Recovery, and Healing.

    Second, I think about how far back 1982 was, and how much different the world was back then. The Happy Pills and the Fix My Kid Doctors were only starting to emerge. And the Recovery Movement had not yet started to merge with a broader appeal version of the Born Again Christian Movement.

    So we have forced commitments and we have forced druggings, but how do these numbers compare with the voluntary commitments, the voluntary talk therapies and pillow punching therapies, and the voluntary and the court ordered 12-steps of powerlessness, and the voluntary druggings? And unless we address these issues, I feel that Anti-Psychiatry will remain a 1982 movement.

    And so we know that it does feed on the poor and the powerless, and that this does mean children, and it also means the adult survivors of the middle-class family.

    I say that with children you must consider any and all procedures as forced. So if they are ever to be done, at a minimum there has to be someone looking out for the interests of the child, and this would have to be the Juvenile Dependency Court, as no one else has authority over the parents.

    But we have here on MIA authors who would make the subversion of child protection laws into a political cause. And we have MIA author / therapists who advertise a FixMyKid service and clearly communicate their complete disregard for mandatory reporting in suspected cases of child abuse.

    And then on top of that we seem to have people who think that the dissociation and destruction of memory caused by prescription psych meds and street drugs are desirable, and speak of it as “healing”.

    So these are only some of the reasons that I now reiterate my statement that, Anti-Psychiatry is poorly defined. And no I did not read this on Wikipedia. I have not read it anywhere, because those operating under the banner of Anti-Psychiatry have yet to show any evidence that they even understand the problem. And the time period in which I began to feel this would be more like by the mid-90’s, when these changes I have alluded to were unfolding, and there was zero response to them.

    Though I would say now that one of the brightest stars is still Jeffrey Masson, yet the Anti-Psychiatry Movement does not seem to even acknowledge him.

    As it is today, where I live, vast numbers of the poor, marginalized, and survivors of the middle-class family are managed by our county mental health system, working in direct and open conjunction with evangelical churches which promote “Recovery”.

    Our county mental health director brings her people to attend an all weekend long conference put on by an evangelical outreach church, and our director concludes the conference by saying, “Recovery is integral to our approach to mental health.”

    And no one at all is challenging the propriety of any of this, and I have seen first hand that the vast majority of the evangelical churches are organized around severe emotional child abuse, and I have listened to such parents talk about how their grown children need to be in a psychiatric hospital so that they will “get the help they need”.

    And then as we sit and debate online, the situation continues to worsen, as no alternative views are being offered, and those Anti-Murphy Bill letters to the Boston Globe, in my view, only made the situation worse.

    And then:
    http://hope4mentalhealth.com/

    There is only so much any of us can do alone, as we will get branded as psychopathic. If we could organize, now that would be different. But the main problem with all of the things I have indicated is that they make it very hard for people to organize because they destroy political consciousness and make people believe in some adapted version of Original Sin.

    Nomadic

  • Frank, Thank you for speaking up about the differences between Cooper and Laing. I believe that I was aware of this and that I was not conflating them. Yes, I know that there were differences between them and that they finally split up, and that Laing never actually went along with the term Anti-Psychiatrist.

    There are many books about R. D. Laing, but two that I have found outstanding are those of Daniel Burston:

    https://www.amazon.com/Crucible-Experience-Laing-Crisis-Psychotherapy/dp/0674002172/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    https://www.amazon.com/Wing-Madness-Life-Work-Laing/dp/0674953592/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    And then I know about Laing and Cooper’s Reason and Violence, though I have not read it. And I know about Sartre and trying to fuse Existentialism and Marxism, and his Critique of Dialectical Reason. And Deleuze and Guattari pay a proper homage to this. And they and Franz Fanon I would say are in similar places with Reason and Violence. My own view is that Reason and Violence can never be separated, or as Maturana and Varela say, “All knowing is doing and all doing is knowing.” And so I do not accept doctrines which are built on any unlimited commitment to non-violence as a way of life. And this is the real objection to Martin Luther King, that he was misunderstanding Gandhi. And Christianity is based on a misunderstanding the Gospel Jesus. And I will have nothing whatsoever to do with MindFreedom.

    Nomadic

  • So BetterLife, are you saying that that is a good thing, not being able to ruminate, and a certain type of forgetfulness?

    Where did you get these sorts of ideas? Your church? Your therapist? Your parents?

    What we need most is people who will fight back, rather than be amenable to the idea that their issues only pertain to their own head, and that they need therapy, recovery, and healing.

    One of the reasons that slavery was ended was that Free Blacks in Boston made the 1850 Fugitive Slave Act extremely difficult to enforce, and this inflamed tensions on all sides.

    We need to approach the denigrations of the middle-class family with the same level of zeal.

    What you would seem to be saying is why, as I see it, using psychiatric medications is very similar to using ethanol or street drugs, and the same thing goes for psychotherapy, recovery, healing, and getting saved.

    One guy I know that had a kind of nervous breakdown, was very pleased to get a psychiatric diagnosis, and medications. And he has even talked about suing the County Hospital, because his initial dosage was not high enough to completely mask his feelings. Though in the time since his dosage and the number of different drugs he takes have greatly increased.

    I try to tell him that the drugs are both addictive and harmful. But he says, “But I want to enjoy my life.”

    And so I tell him that everybody needs to feel their feelings, otherwise they just aren’t really there. And this guy isn’t really there either.

    And the white coats have got him terrified of any situation where his feelings might start to break through.

    Most people see him as a nut case. But it’s not because his has a ~~mental illness~~, it’s because he doesn’t take responsibility for all the denigrating and absurd things he says to people.

    Nomadic

  • As I know, suicide attempts are the original justification for involuntary commitment, and for electro shock and insulin shock, and drugs, while committed. And it is controversial. I for one don’t want to just do nothing and let people kill themselves. But on the other hand, involuntary stuff does not sem right.

    But today psychiatric actions and drugging have expanded way beyond that, way way beyond.

    Nomadic

  • I’m convinced that it is the licensing of these doctors which is causing the problem. A licensing requirement is supposed to protect the public. But here it is deceiving the public. And then also, often the parents are highly culpable in the drugging of children, medical child abuse it is now being called. Well the licensing of the doctors is what insulates the parents from consequences.

    http://psychrights.org/Stories/please_stop_drugging_my_child.htm

    Nomadic

  • https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/07/one-familys-encounter-with-modern-psychiatry-and-a-call-for-social-change/

    “After talking about this for a while, I asked her to let me know the next time she felt sad so we could work through it together. Then we moved on to other topics.”

    So you were telling her that you didn’t want to talk about it at that time, taking the position that what she was talking about was secondary and peripheral?

    “Nevertheless, the very next day, I received a phone call from the anorexic friend’s mother. She made me so worried I immediately made a doctor’s appointment for Rebecka.”

    So you never tried to discuss with her how she felt or why she would experience such a sudden weigh loss, you just called a doctor?

    “The doctor homed in on her depression more than the weight loss and suggested that she see a therapist or a psychiatrist.”

    So, therapy first, no attempt at discussion?

    “therapist suggested we “kick-start” the therapy process with medication.”

    Mood altering drugs, without even attempting to talk?

    You know, doctors are covered by mandatory reporting. Following the letter and spirit of the 1974 law, they are required to report any case where a child has recently been subjected serious emotional harm.

    https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/can/defining/federal/

    So were it up to me, the first step would be to question each of these doctors separately, while they were handcuffed to a table in a police interrogation room.

    Then we would see if they were able to make bail as they awaited felony arraignments.

    And then you know that with each pill that you fed your daughter, her ability to talk about whatever was really at issue, was being diminished.

    “World Mental Health Day”, and you were participating in this, and supporting the idea that there is such a thing as mental illness, instead of protesting against it?

    “advocates for social change to optimize mental well-being” And you do of course understand that it is precisely this kind of logic which perpetuates the mental health system?

    ” alternative approaches to achieving mental and emotional well-being ” From what you have written, it sounds like you and your husband could be described as Happy Campers. It sounds like you measure yourselves this way. And it sounds like this at least had applied to your daughter as well. Would you be willing to consider that living in order to keep up appearances is what often leads to crack ups and breakdowns, and to things which get labeled as mental illness, and that this makes people fodder for the mental health and wellness system?

    “help people make the connection between mental well-being and social justice”

    Social justice is good, and worth fighting for. But the very idea of mental well-being suggests that there must be something other, and this makes people subject to de-legitimation.

    “trauma or other environmental, social, and political factors that contribute to widespread mental distress”

    Yes of course, trauma and other factors contribute to widespread mental distress, but so do people who are trying to mandate mental well-being.

    http://tabitagreen.com/world-mental-health-day/
    While I agree with much that you have written on the above, it still comes down to, “This is how we will create the conditions for optimized mental health.” This still means that you are stigmatizing people who don’t comply with your Happy Camper standards.

    You can’t fight the mental health system, while you are working with it, because all that ever amounts to is calls for Therapy, Recovery, and Healing, instead of political and legal actions.

    Nomadic

  • But then we still need to be ready for whatever the new President wants to do.

    And then I still think people should be more afraid of this than anything else on the horizon:
    http://hope4mentalhealth.com/

    Are Anti-Psychiatry people pressing for a ban on all forced treatments ( psychiatric assaults ), one which does not also endorse Therapy, Recovery, and Healing or otherwise ask for pity?

    And are people protesting at places where forced treatment of adults occurs?

    What percentage of these psychiatric attacks on adults are actually forced, and in what circumstances are they occurring.

    I know they have temporary psychiatric holds. Are people protesting against this? Lawsuits?

    Nomadic

  • As long as people see pills as the remedy to their experience of injustice, then people will still be accepting when their doctor offers them the newest and latest ones. And then people who don’t have that kind of access to the health care system, will still be open to street drugs, like LSD.

    And then some others will be driving their kids to the doctor, because they have a conflicted relationship with their child, and so they want the doctor to drug them. Because of the doctor’s license and the FDA approval of the drug, it makes it hard for the child to ever obtain compensation via a lawsuit.

    Nomadic

  • Oldhead, thank you for alerting me to that information.

    I find Mind Freedom intolerable because they encourage Psychotherapy as an ethical treatment, and in general support the concept of Recovery. While I would never attempt to outlaw Psychotherapy between consenting adults, I do still consider it to be predatory abuse, meaning a type of abuse which is targeted to those already vulnerable. So I could never in anyway even pretend to endorse them. And then on top of that, making joke out of mental illness, and using the concept of non-violence as a way to ask for pity, while our economy comes ever more to depend on social Darwinism and eugenics, and while our growing evangelical movement comes ever more to define itself by child abuse, I just will not tolerate.

    But as far as these 1982 Principles, and given that they contain none of the above problems, I support them fully, and I wish MIA was actually about that, instead of Therapy, Recovery, and Healing.
    http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/act/movement-history/1982-principles/

    about CAPA
    https://coalitionagainstpsychiatricassault.wordpress.com/

    Thank you for letting me know about this. It is far less offensive than Mind Freedom, or so much of what is on MIA. But I still don’t see people standing up for themselves. I mean it is one thing to say that there is injustice. It is another to try and engage with it and do something about it. So where I live the place to protest should be in front of the County Hospital. But people should also be filing lawsuits. Even if efforts to outlaw forced treatment have not yet been effective, you still should be able to file lawsuits on a case by case basis, just as people in the US use every legal means available to block implementation of the death penalty.

    And then I am still seeing very little evidence of understanding that what the mental health hoax is really about is simply failure to comply with the expectations of the middle-class family. No recognition of the fact that in the vast majority of cases, the mental health concept, along with therapy, recovery, and healing, are simply continuations of the types of child abuse and exploitation which the middle-class family is based on. And then again, one thing to claim to see the problem, and yet another to be someone who is actually engaging with it and trying to do something about it.

    So Bonnie’s article is extremely well written and I agree with the vast majority of it.
    https://www.madinamerica.com/2014/10/antipsychiatry-revisited-toward-greater-clarity/

    But I Oldhead I also still stand on my original position, the Anti-Psychiatry is not well defined. And no I did not read this on Wikipedia. I have not read it anywhere, because those claiming to support Anti-Psychiatry do not seem to understand the problem.

    Anti-Psychiatry is not well defined because too many of the proponents are still endorsing or advertising for Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing, in the face of abuse and injustice. Too many of the proponents are actively campaigning to conceal familial child abuse. And too many of the proponents seem to support the middle-class family, because they support its defining doctrine, the Self-Reliance Ethic.

    Consider, if these FixMyKid Doctors had to comply with the letter and spirit of the 1974 Child Abuse and Neglect Act, reauthorized in 2010, they would either be out of business or they’d be in prison.

    •”Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation”
    https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/can/defining/federal/

    Mandatory Reporting
    https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/responding/reporting/mandated/

    Nomadic

  • My first sighting of the term Anti-Psychiatry was with Laing and Cooper, and Laing never really went along with it anyway. It became Cooper’s personal moniker, and he did not seem to know where he wanted to go with it.

    Yes, here they list others, but I don’t know that they really subscribed to that specific terminology. And as I see it, the terminology has a great deal to do with what is at issue here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-psychiatry

    But why don’t you enlighten me then, where did the anti-psychiatric movement start, and where is it best defined, and what does it mean?

    More than anything else, when these people were active, they were not living in a society which was filled with Psychologists, who are licensed to do sessions and prescribe drugs. And there was not a huge Recovery Movement dedicated to the proposition of powerlessness, and of passivity in favor of gestures of piety.

    And then today the Evangelical Christian Movement, the Recovery Movement, Mental Health, and just a lightened up Psychotherapy, are all fusing into one. After this Murphy Bill, I cannot think of anything more frightening.

    So usually, as I see it, the problem when someone starts talking about Anti-Psychiatry is that while opposing drugs, electroshock, and forced treatment, they are usually supporting Psychotherapy, Recovery, Healing, and often Religion. MIA, though perhaps not intended to be this way, nevertheless is.

    So if we reject that, what is the alternative? Well it should be political consciousness raising and fighting back. So do we go to the barricades?

    The Paris Commune did not last that long. But the older brother of Gilles Deleuze was arrested for Resistance activities, and shot while being marched to a concentration camp. I believe that this has influenced Gilles’s thinking.

    He calls for the creation of a Nomadic War Machine, and the use of naval hit and run tactics, instead of land tactics.

    Republished from Vol 2 of Capitalism and Schizophrenia, A Thousand Plateaus.
    http://epicbaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/nomadology_read1.pdf

    And then remember that Fanon’s “Wretched of the Earth” was on the short reading list for the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense.

    The alternative is to become A Man of Action. If one way does not work, you find some other way. But on no account do you ever let yourself be made into an Uncle Tom, or be made to believe that it is all just about issues inside of your own head.

    Nomadic

    PANTHER ( 1995 ) Full Length Movie
    a film by Mario Van Peebles, based on the book by his father Melvin Van Peebles
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1PmnZ9hejw

  • Of course I do not agree with the Huffington Post. However though I do feel that their article does indicate that there are problems with the idea of “Anti-Psychiatry”, as well as with the idea of creating this kind of a scholarship, or an endowed professorship.

    The term “Anti-Psychiatry” has always been poorly defined, and there have not been that many promoters of it. And today I feel that it is mostly used by those who are part of the problem, by promoting Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing, as the alternative to Psychiatry.

    Sometimes Alice Miller is listed as Anti-Psychiatry, even though she did not continuously hold to this. With D. B. Cooper, seemingly the originator, it was never clear where he wanted to go with it.

    I feel that Jeffrey Masson is one of the best, along with Deleuze and Guattari and their phenomenal “Anti-Oedipus”, but this is entirely against psychotherapy. And what they called Oedipalization back in 1972, applies directly to the contemporary American Recovery Movement. And then today with the Warren’s, you have Evangelical Christianity, Recovery, and Mental Health all fusing into one. I would think people would see that as a crisis of the first magnitude.

    If this U-Toronto has a Medical School, and that has Psychiatry and or Psychotherapy, then getting those closed down should be the first order of business.

    As far as Anti-Psychiatry, that is not just the concern of a medical school, it is political. Cooper and D and G certainly have never seen it any other way.

    So I think that trying to take what Foucault exposes about knowledge and power and turn it back on the enemy, has serious liabilities, and it also might separate such an effort from its base of supporters.

    And where ever possible, you want to define yourself by what you are for, rather than what you are against. And I know this is difficult in this arena.

    Basically, Psychiatry and Psychotherapy are about fascism, neuroticism, and death, following from D and G.

    Opposing that you would have some things which are usually poorly understood, like Nietzsche’s Will to Power and D and G’s Desire.

    One problem is that, as Foucault has shown, enslavement and subjectification are already built into the goals of The Enlightenment, like emancipation and liberation.

    But Foucault also wrote in the preface to Anti-Oedipus that it should be considered the “manual of anti-fascist living.”

    https://www.amazon.com/Within-Nietzsches-Labyrinth-Alan-White/dp/0415903289/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476911016&sr=8-1&keywords=alan+white+within+nietzsche
    Talks about stages of nihilism:

    1. Religious ( this world needs another world to justify it. Recovery Movement is this way. )
    2. Radical ( sometimes the way people like Aleister Crowley are seen )
    3. Completed ( end of a long journey, but I think this is the only real way, and it is how I think you have to understand Foucault. )

    UC Berkeley’s Hubert Dryefus, a Heidegger expert, was the one who had arranged for Foucault to spend 3 or 4 months of each year in Berkeley. He considered Foucault the successor to Heidegger. But Heidegger is offensive, especially to the French, because of his Nazi past. So Foucault only acknowledged him on his death bed.

    Some consider Deleuze to be the first one who is truly post Heideggerian.

    I am inclined to agree with this.

    So if your are comprehensively anti-Psychiatry, like anti-Psychotherapy, and anti-Recovery too, then what are you?

    For some this has meant being Marxist. And actually Foucault and Deleuze and Guattari became post-Marxist because in May 1968 protestors could have brought the French state down, were it not for the fact that the official Communist Party switched sides and backed up the state.

    So all of their works which followed that, like especially Anti-Oedipus and A Thousand Plateaus should be seen as a kind of alternative to, or re-write of, Marx and Engels. They are cited as Anti-Fascists, more than as Leftists, and certainly more than as Marxists.

    Anyway, I would suggest some sort of political program which fights the entire mental health and recovery system, and also works to redress the societal injustices which land people in recovery and the mental health system. I suggest this, instead of anything titled Anti-Psychiatry, and especially something which is part of a medical school.

    Nomadic

  • I am going along here with Frank and Oldhead, and with Cat too.

    The way I would say it is that I think it a mistake in anyway to take on a mental health label.

    Everyone of us has our history, it’s just matter of how we relate to it that is at issue.

    I don’t at all go along with the concept of mental illness, so I would never apply it to myself or anyone else.

    And so I believe that in using it, all people are doing is asking for pity, and that that is always a mistake. Even more so because our society is deliberately setting large groups of people up as scapegoats. So Frank had used the word ‘fodder’ to describe what people become when the take on such labels, and I agree completely.

    So I feel that we have to understand what the underlying issues are, like economic, and the ways that the bulk of the population, and almost all wielders of power, use the middle-class family to give themselves social legitimacy and status, and then we need to strike there.

    As we have tangible victories, we gain for ourselves new types of identity, and so we then are no longer the objects of pity.

    Also, many are going to feel that without the mental health label, that they have no identity. Well I say that that is what the abusers have intended. This is how the mental health system operates, and it is how the middle-class family operates. They deliberately set it up so that you will be pressed very hard to eventually submit.

    So when one first starts to fight back, they find that they must establish and defend a no exceptions privacy wall, not giving out of personal or biographical information, or they are just helping their abusers.

    Nomadic

  • kyrani99, I don’t remember seeing any of your posts before. Welcome.

    I have skimmed your 5 videos.

    And I agree with your statement, or at least I agree that it appears that way:

    I found that the social injustices which cause distress, alienation and helplessness are due to the exploitation of close relationship by related toxic people, most commonly there may be some in the family, some in friendships and some in the workplace.

    Actually there is one who writes something similar, and she offers many examples of what she calls narcissistic abusers:
    https://www.amazon.com/Stalking-Soul-Marie-France-Hirigoyen/dp/188558699X/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    She explains that it is caused by the simple fact that society continues to become more and more informal. So there are not the established hierarchies or roles which would have prescribed interpersonal relations, and so some people take unfair advantage.

    I believe that this is what you are describing.

    I though still believe that there are legally sanctioned structural problems which set up more serious situations. Psychotherapy, Psychiatry, and the Recovery Movement are absolutely predatory, and this must be exposed. And then the middle-class family is unlike anything which has ever before existed, in its degree of social closedness, and the degree to which it depends upon their being children available for exploitation.

    And unless you had this, I don’t believe that Psychotherapy, Psychiatry, or the Recovery Movement would even exist.

    So yes, if your point is that you can’t impose micro level legal controls on human interrelations, then of course I would agree with that.

    But I am calling for legal and political action, to hold parents accountable for clear abuse, even though this is largely after the fact and largely financial. And I am calling for enforcement of existing laws which are supposed to stop doctors for contributing to middle-class family abuses, by forcing them to report. This is the only way to stop them from being bully boys controlled by the parents. This is the intent and letter of the law, even if it is probably not being enforced that way.

    And then I want people to organize and act to discredit this idea that the response to problems is to reform yourself, improve yourself, find religion, go to therapy, go to recovery. Rather, the response to the experience of injustice should be to organize and take legal and political action.

    Most of the distress that people feel does come from what you call the “grass roots” relationships. But I would still say that the cause of this is a compromised social and civil standing. And this will never be corrected in a Recovery Group, Evangelical Church, or Therapist’s Office.

    The work place is important, but I still see it as a voluntary relationship between adults.

    The family is a more serious situation because it is not voluntary, and it involves children.

    So even though these are the grass roots areas of life, they are still always operating within legal structures and established codes of conduct.

    To put it another way, people holding power do what they know they can get away with. Bosses and coworkers do this, and most of all, middle-class parents do it. They know what they can do to children which will not leave any marks.

    And since this thread involves Foucault, that is his main subject, the moving from control by physical violence, to the control by psychological means. He is talking about prisons, but also about mental hospitals. But it applies no less to families.

    As it stands now in the US, emotional or psychological child abuse is illegal, and it is subject to mandatory reporting for doctors and most other people who work with children. But there is still a huge latitude for what that means, though if pressed, the law is always the actual words.

    Problem is that authorities are vastly overloaded with the existing case load, as it now stands.

    So one thing I want is for the US to follow the direction of virtually every other industrialized nation and prohibit people from disinheriting a child. As it stands now, the survivors are kept silent, and the vast majority of the population is living in lies and denial. Changing the inheritance laws would free survivors to speak out.

    Money could still be given to outside parties or distributed unequally, but the power would reside with the heirs instead of the testators.

    And then, Recovery, Therapy, Healing, Self-Improvement, and Getting Saved, are just a continuation of the kinds of abuses which go on with in the middle-class family. And then when we have to deal with people under the sway of such in the work place, it isn’t likely to be very easy.

    Nomadic

  • Bonnie, I’ve watched a couple of your videos now, and looked at your books and your articles here.

    I think you are really far off base. This eutopia you are calling for with the emotional healers, is unrealistic. You know that that would be state run, and just amount to psychotherapeutic policing at every corner.

    And you are still saying that distressed people should just be talked out and treated like children. That is standard procedure right now where I am, not in every apartment building, but in the county hospital.

    Unless it is physically coercive, then all one needs to have to deal with psychiatry is a working middle finger. And the same applies to psychotherapy and your emotional healers. And this is how I would recommend dealing with them.

    No, what you promote is coercive treatment because you don’t understand what the real issues are or how it would work out.

    Saying no to psychiatry is not the issue, it is how to address the social injustices which cause people to feel alienated and helpless. You claim to be a feminist and want to protect women from violence, but you have made a political cause out of undermining laws designed to protect children from their parents.

    Calling for Community is fine, but one has to have some idea of how that is going to happen. And it if were real, then people would be involved and engaged, and would not need to be talked out as if they were meaningless. An apartment building full of people who need to be talked out is not Community, it is a Mental Hospital. And this is what you seem to want our entire society to be like.

    Zero cooperation with Bonnie’s emotional healers. And zero support for her Anti-Psychiatry chair. All she is calling for is a slicker form of state run social control, exactly what Michel Foucault dedicated his life to exposing!

    And lets get some Foucault experts on this, to pressure her into stopping using his name or picture.

    Things will change when people refuse all the Healing and Recovery stuff, and instead start taking legal and political action.

    Nomadic

  • “There is no denying that psychedelic medicines offer potential for healing beyond the reaches of talk therapy.”

    How can one possibly hope to advance an anti-psychiatric drug position, when they are entertaining ideas like that?

    We have talked about why the anti-psychiatry movement seems to be stuck. Well the reason for this is simple. In the days of R. D. Laing and D. G. Cooper, anti-psychiatry meant the end of trying to fix people, trying to socialize them. The issues instead was exposing systemic injustice and changing society.

    Now unfortunately, neither Laing nor Cooper were able to go any further with that.

    But today, anti-psychiatry is just a means for psychotherapists to advance themselves. They do turn people’s problems back on themselves, just like Evangelical religion does. And often they are hiring themselves out to parents needing help in abusing their children.

    So today the Boosters for the Good Family continue to control the vast majority of the wealth, assets, institutions of higher learning, high wage employment, and virtually all elected offices.

    And they defend their lies and denial. They have never made any attempt to deal with the truth in their own experience. They harm everyone they come into contact with, especially spouses and children, because otherwise their denial systems could be challenged.

    And they are the gate keepers everywhere. And so when we the Survivors of the Middle Class Family try to advance ourselves in any manner, they will step on us. They have to because right away they sense that we are not like them, and so they feel threatened.

    So we get stepped on, we feel distress. Sometimes this surfaces in eating disorders or psychosomatic ailments, or in lots and lots of other ways.

    So we are told that we need Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Healing. And if that were not ridiculous enough, “There is no denying that psychedelic medicines offer potential for healing beyond the reaches of talk therapy.”

    But are we organizing and standing up for ourselves and each other? Well that is impossible as long as people accept things like Psychotherapy, Recovery, Healing, Getting Saved, Motivationalism, Psychiatric Drugs, Street Drugs, or Ethanol.

    Right here a widely referenced and now classic text:
    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Social-Family-Radical-Thinkers-ebook/dp/B00MDHRQQO/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    They explain, “Psychotherapy and the Recovery Movement turn your experience of injustice into a medical problem and a self-improvement project.”

    And so we keep getting further beaten down, and told that our problems are because of memories of past events, and oh our therapist has so much empathy for us, but they never have considered actually doing anything about injustice, as that is why they are a therapist. And so they tell us to just get over it, not understanding that our lives never possibly could look like those of the Boosters for the Good Family. For one thing, our eyes are open. For another, we do not have the same sort of a biography. And then for another, learning to live by lies and denial is a very dangerous proposition.

    So power is used against us, over and over. And we do feel it.

    “Hardly any of the ‘symptoms’ of psychological distress may correctly be seen as medical matters. The so-called psychiatric ‘disorders’ are nothing to do with faulty biology, nor indeed are they the outcome of individual moral weakness or other personal failing. They are the creation of the social world in which we live, and that world is structured by power.
    Social power may be defined as the means of obtaining security or advantage, and it will be exercised within any given society in a variety of forms: coercive (force), economic (money power) and ideological (the control of meaning). Power is the dynamic which keeps the social world in motion. It may be used for good or for ill.”
    http://www.davidsmail.info/introfra.htm

    But no, we the Survivors of the Middle-Class Family keep letting our experiences of injustice and distress get turned into a personal problem, and told we need Therapy, Recovery, Healing, Religion, Psych Meds, and Street Drugs like LSD.

    And the Anti-Psychitary Movement is today just Psychotherapists trying to advance themselves, and protecting their own denial systems, and we don’t do anything about it.

    Well things are going to start changing.

    Like for one, by putting some psychotherapists out of business:

    http://www.bhpklaw.com/Personal-Injury/Psychotherapy-Malpractice.shtml

    http://www.therapyabuse.org/RS_lawyers.htm

    http://website.lineone.net/~vex/How%20Therapists%20Abuse.htm

    Really all we have to do is publicly expose the sham they are running, and that will bring them down.

    Nomadic

  • Don’t really use aspirin. But coffee is a drug, and I do use it.

    Telling people that LSD works better than psychotherapy is just like telling them what is intended, that psych meds work better than psychotherapy.

    But psychotherapy is based on a con, “Dissociate from your lived experience, heal, recovery, and you don’t have to deal with the injustices which have shaped your life.”

    Only when people place legal and political action first, can we say that a drug is doing only limited harm.

    The idea that people need Psychotherapy, Recovery, Healing, or mood altering chemicals is just another layer of abuse on top of the original abuses.

    Nomadic

  • Meaghan, “Therapy, Recovery and Healing” are what people are conned into accepting instead of justice. They are led to believe that the problem resides within themselves. And this is also how they are conned into drugs, street and prescription.

    Survivors suffer, not because of what is in their heads, and not over something that any kind of chemical mood alterant could alleviate. They suffer because their socio public identities have been voided and shattered.

    No drug could ever correct that. That they could is a vicious deception.


    Hardly any of the ‘symptoms’ of psychological distress may correctly be seen as medical matters. The so-called psychiatric ‘disorders’ are nothing to do with faulty biology, nor indeed are they the outcome of individual moral weakness or other personal failing. They are the creation of the social world in which we live, and that world is structured by power.
    Social power may be defined as the means of obtaining security or advantage, and it will be exercised within any given society in a variety of forms: coercive (force), economic (money power) and ideological (the control of meaning). Power is the dynamic which keeps the social world in motion. It may be used for good or for ill.
    One cannot hope to understand the phenomena of psychological distress, nor begin to think what can be done about them, without an analysis of how power is distributed and exercised within society. Such an understanding is the focus of this web-site.

    http://davidsmail.info/introfra.htm

    Only political and legal action, and done collectively, could ever build someone a new socio public identity.

    Oldhead and his drug boasting, no that does not give anyone a new public legitimacy. It only gets in the way and makes organizing with them impossible.

    Nomadic

  • Oldhead, You sound like the classic drug booster. Just like what the late Zen teacher Alan Watts described, saying that unless people have done the drugs you have, and in the dosages, then they don’t know what benefits they are missing.

    But you most know that people who want to feel their feelings don’t do drugs. You must know that. Or are you so committed to drugs that you can’t see it oldhead?

    Nomadic

  • Meaghan,

    Imagine if a rape survivor walks into a police station to report the crime, and what she is told is that she needs Therapy, Recovery, and Healing, so that she can go on with her life and get beyond her problem.

    You understand that this is an example of what activists have long identified as “Second Rape”. It is not necessarily that they don’t believe the victim’s story, it is simply that they don’t think anything should be done about it, or that any one is responsible except the victim.

    So you show me a Survivor of the Middle-Class Family, who has been directed to Therapy, Recovery, and Healing, and I’ll show you someone who needs instead to be talking with an attorney, and needs to be getting involved in political activism.

    Therapy, Recovery, and Healing are Second Rape. They do nothing to restore the social and civil standing of the victim / survivor. All they do is try to convince them that they are the problem, that the problem resides between their own two ears.

    “The practice of psychotherapy is wrong because it is profiting off of another person’s misery.”
    https://www.amazon.com/Against-Therapy-Emotional-Tyranny-Psychological-ebook/dp/1567510221/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475867624&sr=1-1&keywords=against+therapy

    Explains how all a psychotherapist ever does is protect their own denial systems:
    https://www.amazon.com/Thou-Shalt-Not-Be-Aware-ebook/dp/B006U1C0VA/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    And then of course the purpose of drugs is simply a faster, more reliable, and cheaper version of what psychotherapy does, making people deny their own lived experience. So it is wrong to give out such drugs and it is wrong to conduct studies or discussions about their effectiveness, because the intended purpose is wrong.

    I had said that the drugs should be flushed down the toilet. But Frank alerted me that these chemicals are already being found in our drinking water. So best then is just to give the entire package, unopened, to your attorney, or to your County DA.

    Right now, the Good Family People with their collective denial system, control most of the wealth, assets, high wage employment, and institutions of higher learning.

    But we who have opened our eyes, the Survivors of the Middle-Class Family, have zero social legitimacy. So we face persecution in every walk of life, and the worst of all are employment and intimate relationships, simply because our lives do not look like those of the people who are in denial. And most of the time we just get directed to Therapy, Recovery, and Healing.

    This changes when we start organizing and taking legal and political actions, and when we start winning tangible results, instead of talking with commiserators. And I’m sure you must understand that to do this, just as a matter of practicality, we must reject any and all chemical mood alterants of any type.

    Would incarcerate doctors who give psychiatric meds to children, without the need to persuade doctors to testify against other doctors. Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/our-own-bill-to-counter-murphy-t359.html

    Nomadic

  • Matt, it is good that you are educating yourself and forming your own views.

    I see most of it a bit differently than you do. Clinical schizophrenia is a product of the mental health system, the talk therapy and the drugs. They are both intended to be self-alienating. We only have the drugs because they are a cheaper, faster, and surer acting way of doing the same things to people which talk therapy does.

    Always the objective is to make you believe that your yourself are the problem. Therapy, Recovery, Healing, that it what it is.

    And what all of this is predicated on is the Middle-Class Family and how Capitalism and the State depend upon this to maintain order and compliance. The middle-class family is different from anything else which has ever existed in a number of ways:

    1. Has children by choice, in order to increase social status of parents.
    2. Reads pedagogy and child development manuals to enhance the social status gain.
    3. All societies inscribe upon both children and adults, but with the middle-class family, the parents are living in Bad Faith, not admitting that they have choices, not living up to their own values. And this is the source of most parent v child conflict, the child recognizes that the adults are not being honest.
    4. Has converted children into private property, rather like how it used to be with slave ownership.

    So our future Einsteins, Mozarts, and Andy Warhols, get denigrated and denigrated in the name of the Self-Reliance Ethic, and get turned into Homer Simpsons.

    And then sometimes things go a bit wrong, but we have Psychotherapists and Psychiatrists who step in then and continue the abuses that the parents started.

    Nothing will ever change until we the Survivors of the Middle-Class Family organize and reject Therapy, Recovery, and Healing, and the Self-Reliance Ethic too, and start taking political and legal actions, and also start setting up some of our own institutions.

    Our Own Bill To Counter Murphy, Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/our-own-bill-to-counter-murphy-t359.html

    I would suggest R. D. Laing’s “Politics of Experience”, and with Aaron Estherson, “Sanity Madness and the Family”, and Deleuze and Guattari’s “Anti-Oedipus”, along with Jeffrey Masson’s “Against Therapy”, and Alice Miller’s “For Your Own Good” and “Thou Shalt Not Be Aware”.

    Nomadic

  • Jim,

    We need lawyers at every level of this. The drugs only exist because they are a surer and faster acting alternative to psychotherapy. We need to be filing every kind of lawsuit possible.

    An Alternative To Murphy:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/our-own-bill-to-counter-murphy-t359.html

    Where is there another forum and other people on the ground that are centered on legal and political action, instead of therapy, recovery, and healing?

    Nomadic

  • Well then I would suggest that they are less violent because of the cumulative effects of all the harm that has been inflicted upon them.

    If you subjected someone else to the sorts of denigrations that those labeled mentally ill are subjected to, I don’t think they would remain non-violent for very long.

    I mean your talking about people who have been denigrated, humiliated, and shamed in the middle-class family. They have been designated as “The Problem”, and usually as someone who should not even exist.

    Then they have been acted upon by talk therapists. And the worst of the worst of the talk therapists are those assigned to the poor, and especially the people on the suicide and crisis lines.

    So these therapists try to continue what the middle-class family did, convince the person that they themselves are the problem, simply because they don’t accept things the way they are and because they are not compliant.

    Then as it is cheaper and gives more reliable results, they put them on medications. These have the same self-alienating effects as talk therapy.

    And so their chance at ever developing what in our society amounts to adult life, is neutralized, and so they are de-sexualized too.

    So you tell me that sometimes some of them still have enough self-preservation instinct left to get violent?

    Well if you keep jabbing at a cornered animal with a stick for long enough, what would you expect to happen?

    My only regret about any of this is just that we have not been yet to able to organize the survivors of the middle-class family and of psychotherapy and psychiatry, so that we can start talking political actions which are more effective.

    Where is there a more radical form, and a more radical movement, where people actually are trying to make large scale political, legal, and social changes, rather than just begging for pity?

    Help Stop Rick Warren, and Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/rick-warren-first-class-creep-t351.html

    Nomadic

  • Katinka, further reflecting on your story, some things come to my mind.

    One book which has influenced my views is:

    https://www.amazon.com/Daughters-Eye-Margaret-Gregory-Bateson/dp/0060975733/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475715304&sr=1-1&keywords=with+a+daughter%27s+eye

    Mary Catherine Bateson is the daughter of Margaret Mead and Gregory Bateson. She lived with them in NYC until she was age 10, and then tensions developed and finally her parents divorced. Her mother stayed in NYC, but her father moved to the San Francisco Bay Area.

    So one of the ramifications of this was that starting that summer Mary Catherine got to take a 3 day long train trip across the country to visit her father.

    Just imagine how much fun that would be for a 10yo to get to take a trip like that!

    And so these trips became a regular event. And then with her mother in NYC, lots and lots of friends got to help in the care of Mary Catherine. Her mother would go on to say, “I had to ration you out, as there were so many.”

    Now San Francisco is a long way from New York. It might be better if the distance were shorter. But having two separated parents, each with their own place, amounts to backup. If there is a problem at one end, the child can just go to the other.

    I think we need to make sure that this is always there in the lives of every child. Somehow there has to be back up.

    So yes, every human institution is subject to corruption. But nothing could be worse than being trapped in a home with two married parents, and who have designated you as “the problem”, and where marriage is unbreakable and normative, and were there is emotional abuse, or more.

    So while I am not saying that people who do not divorce when things are going bad are wrong or should be blamed, I am saying that the safety of the child must be considered.

    I have written at length about a father who was molesting his three daughters, with the full support of his Pentecostal Church, whom I helped put into our state prison. The parents were married, and they are still married, and I feel that the mother should be in prison too.

    But the way the case started was very simple. We are blessed to have a 24/7 youth drop in center. They can go there on foot or by bicycle, at any time. So the youngest girl, the one who got the least of it and the one who is still the best at standing up for herself, then in the 8th grade and 13yo, went and talked to a counselor.

    The girl said some things which did not sound right.

    Now people my age tell horror stories, and there was in their lives no intervention.

    And today it still seems like most private practice doctors and therapists just ignore mandatory reporting, because they hire themselves out to the parents. So they serve the parents, and their see no evil interpretation is already established.

    But in public practice, knowing a Social Worker at the County Hospital who teaches the class in mandatory reporting, they do seem to comply. She said, “You report *EVERYTHING*.”

    So I don’t really know how far this goes, and CPS already gets more cases than it can do anything with.

    But okay, at this youth center, the intern counselor heard stuff which did not sound right, and so she did exactly what was required. She asked more questions, wrote it up, and then faxed it to both CPS and Police.

    Now it turns out that this abuser father had once before talked his way out of it with school counselors, and then once CPS bungled a well being check. But this time, Police immediately tracked down the eldest daughter and then they had a different detective do a video interview with each family member.

    Soon the defendant was in jail and charged with felonies pertaining to each of the three girls.

    So I emphasize the importance of children having these other places!

    So the middle-class family is like a death machine. But sometimes there are mitigations. Other people, other places to go are one.

    But what is happening in our society? Kids don’t even get to walk to school anymore, because parents are so scared of stranger danger, when the greatest danger is in the family home, and it is abuses committed by parents.

    And then recently I have been reading about Israeli Kibbutzes. Again, there have been problems there, and no institution is incorruptible. And these communities are changing, and there are differences. But still there is the basic idea of having the parents’ home, and also a children’s home with the school, and all within walking distance. That gives children empowerment.

    And then they could ride the bus from the front gate, off into the town. Lots of possibilities.

    https://www.amazon.com/Kibbutz-Awakening-Utopia-Daniel-Gavron/dp/0847695263/ref=sr_1_sc_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475715913&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=utopia+kibbuts

    So I am not saying that parents who do not divorce should be chastised. But we must protect children. We must make provisions for this.

    Even when CPS is involved, most children do go back to their parents within a year. And if you have other places for children to go already, which they have been utilizing, a temporary separation is not such a big deal. And even when there is a permanent problem, so long as the child has other places, there can still be visits and that can be safe.

    I feel that most of these problems are created by the ideology which holds The Middle-Class Family up as an ideal, and then treats children as property.

    Turns out that when Mary Catherine Bateson was 18yo, her mother took her to Israel to visit a Kibbutz, and Mary Catherine basically ditched her mother, deciding to stay there, and eventually marrying one of their men.

    Nomadic

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  • Julie you wrote,


    Disenfranchisement on any societal level happens for a reason. I highly doubt it is ever entirely from “within.” In fact, my guess is that disenfranchisement is 90% caused by outer forces that act on the individual.

    We cannot be too quick to assume the family is at fault, either. I have spoken to many survivors who tell me they came from intact and happy families that were attacked by outside influence such as psychiatry.

    From having worked locally with people in “treatment ghettos”, and in the closely coupled evangelical outreach ministries, I would say that the majority of these intact and happy families are operating at the expense of the child. If the parents divorce at least one of them might start to get real. But as long as they stay married, the denial systems and the lies still operate, and often the child is the one sacrificed.

    Very hard to even imagine situations, even with outside adversity, abuse, and trauma, where a family member ends up being impacted by psychiatry, unless the entire family had already started to revolve around the concept that that person “has a problem”.

    But, the Self-Reliance Ethic is so completely encompassing, that very few people are willing to defy it and show what was going on in the family. And remember, it is not just your parents or mine, it is The Family, that which is held up as an ideal, and which is entrusted with the authority to psychologically maim and scar children for the sake of the Self-Reliance Ethic. And the reason that some survivors do become conscious of what has happened is that sometimes there are outside mitigations, and also because the parents are always operating in Bad Faith. They are not living up to their own values, they are not admitting that they have choices, and the child comes to see this and as such rejects their views.

    If find Dr. Brogan’s practice, predicated on the idea that clients need remedial instruction in how to live, instead of legal representation, to be a continuation of the familial abuse.

    Awareness has started when you will no longer talk to therapists, or any other kinds of commiserators, and instead will only talk to an attorney.

    Nomadic

  • Kelly,

    People don’t come to a doctor’s office for no reason. And the people who have some history with Psychotherapy or Psychiatry, they are usually people who’s chance at a legitimated adult identity has been shattered. And in the overwhelming majority of situations this comes down to familial child abuse and exploitation.

    So the last thing they need is to be lectured to about Community, The Tribe, or Kundalini.

    Leading them to believe that they can restore their place in the world, without having to redress the wrongs and abuses committed against them, is a con. It is not unlike those who lead people to believe that they can find happiness with street drugs, alcohol, or psychiatric medications.

    And I feel that this illustrates what Jeffrey Masson says,

    https://www.amazon.com/Against-Therapy-Emotional-Tyranny-Psychological-ebook/dp/B008KPZRDW/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    “The practice of psychotherapy is wrong because it is profiting off of another person’s misery.”

    I mean, you are either a lawyer or a political activist who can help people gain a legal victory, or at least engage in the fight to stop such abuses, or you are taking money off of people by telling them something which is completely incorrect and very dangerous. You are telling them that the locus of their problems in within themselves, in their own limitations and in their own ignorance. You are telling them that they are to blame, and that the sooner they admit this, the sooner things get better.

    When in fact there is nothing wrong with them, it is simply that their chance to find a place in this world was attacked and destroyed by people who unjustly used power over them, and because of this, they do not have a legitimated adult identity, and then every doctor, psychotherapist, and psychiatrist who deals with them is just continuing this abuse.

    I’m all for Kundalini. But I find your entire medical practice and your way of advertising it to be PREDATORY!

    Nomadic

  • Oldhead wrote,

    I don’t know what you mean by “vindication” in this sense, as for the other terms it’s a question of semantics. Certainly we’re not talking about diseases here. It’s just that saying “never” or “ever” is sure to yield a few exceptions.

    As for the family being an agent of capitalism, while you didn’t say it is the only one, you generally make it your sole focus. Not that there’s anything wrong with “specializing,” just sayin’…tactically though, if the family is serving the system then focusing on lawsuits against family members for basically carrying out their “orders” is missing the target somewhat, wouldn’t you say?

    What do I mean by vindication? Well, like Peter Breggin has written in “Beyond Conflict”, underneath all of these issues which are getting “treated” in Psychotherapy and Psychiatry, is conflict. There is not something “wrong” with the client, there is some substantial and legitimate conflict at issue.

    And then going a bit further and following Alice Miller and just my own day in day out observations, under the surface of most of the issues being dealt with by those who end up in Psychotherapy and Psychiatry is Parent v Child conflict.

    And if anyone is willing to just get saturated in this, just spend some time with any of our Evangelical Churches. Most every family has a scapegoat child, and usually a scapegoat sibling too.

    And then as I did, get involved in a paternal child sexual molestation case, I listened to the scapegoating, and in every communication I made to the court and the DA I emphasized this and the role of the evangelical church.

    So as we live in a civilized nation state, the government monopolizes the power of redress. So to vindicate the family scapegoat, you have to help them win a lawsuit. Usually it will be against their parents and against any therapists, psychiatrists, or other doctors who have helped them inflict harm. And the suit will be over money, either for immediate compensation or to prevent disinheritance, or probably both. You might look at it as a kind of divorce from one’s parents. No one should ever be able to have children and abuse them, and then keep money or assets. When they can do this, they brag about it. Go to any evangelical church and you will hear it. Go to mainline churches and you will hear it, though in a softened language.

    “if the family is serving the system then focusing on lawsuits against family members for basically carrying out their “orders” is missing the target somewhat”

    Well, people rob banks, and you could say that they are a product of their environment, but we still put them in prison.

    Yes, the middle-class family is serving the system, and for this reason the system is evil, because it depends upon the middle-class family, and that means child exploitation. But it is still going to continue because the parents brag about how they exploit and abuse their children. What allows them to do this is that they are still holding on to money and assets. So I am not really talking about lowering the bar for incarcerating parents, only for taking their money away from them.

    They have to understand that children are not property, and that they will be held 100% accountable for any deliberate harm, certainly including emotional and psychological.

    And the US needs to become like other industrialized countries, Western Europe, Latin America, and increasingly Asia, in requiring equal share inheritance. Otherwise abuse survivors get silenced, and the public and jury pools will continue to live in denial.

    In the overwhelming majority of these ne’er do well, substance addiction, and “mental health” cases, the cause is simply that someone’s social identity has been shattered by the abuses of the middle-class family.

    And remember that there are several things about the middle-class family which make it unlike anything which has ever before existed:

    1. Has children deliberately in order to gain legitimated adult identity.
    2. Reads and follows pedagogy and child development manuals.
    3. Hires therapists and doctors who violate mandatory reporting, to make child more compliant.
    4. Lives in Bad Faith, does not admit to itself that it has choices. ( Sartre and de Beauvoir insight )

    Where is there a more radical forum, people who are taking legal and political action on behalf of the survivors of the middle-class family and psychotherapy and psychiatry, instead of talking about whether or not drugs are effective and about therapy, recovery, and healing?

    Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/rick-warren-first-class-creep-t351.html

    Nomadic

  • Alex wrote, “The energy of kindness is healing–not born of pity, but of empathy and compassion, and the desire to feel love. I think the main issue from childhood trauma and abuse is that it creates a deprivation of love. That can cause all sorts of illness, despair, rage, bad relationship patterns, chronic frustration, etc. People need kindness more than simply more hostility.”

    The issue is always social and civil standing. We the Survivors of the Middle-Class Family are denied social and civil standing. And so power is used unfairly against us. We are socially marginalized. We do not have the same chances at higher education or high wage employment, and usually where it really shows up is we are delegitimated in intimate relationships.

    And this creates psychological distress, so we often end up being subjected to further abuses as we confess on the couches of therapists. These commiserators will never do anything whatsoever to vindicate the survivors of the middle-class family.

    So the way we restore our social and civil standing is by standing up for ourselves, and talking legal and political action, and to do this we need to organize.

    Telling people that they need healing, empathy, or compassion, and especially for those who have abused them and for those who continue to denigrate them is just telling them to be Uncle Tom’s.

    As long as we listen to this, its always going to be therapy, recovery, and healing, but never justice.

    Do you think people should be able to have children so that they can abuse them, and then say they are right and the child is wrong, and still be able to hold on to their money? This is exactly the way it is being done in every community in the entire country.

    Nomadic

  • Uprising, here, Yale’s John Merriman explains it better than I ever could, about how the middle-class invented childhood, and about how it is merely a reactionary identity system:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEk1JAkyvj4

    And then here, full text online, and also widely available on paper, a classic text:
    http://faculty.humanities.uci.edu/poster/CTF/

    Highly referenced and critically acclaimed:
    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Social-Family-Michele-Barrett/dp/086091545X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475698078&sr=1-1&keywords=anti-social+family

    And then the greatest:
    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Oedipus-Capitalism-Schizophrenia-Penguin-Classics/dp/0143105825/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    Please Join:
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    Nomadic

  • Oldhead, your anti-Murphy talking points will probably be heard in some circles. I still cannot fully go along with them though. Just to get people to oppose Murphy, maybe. But to deal with the broader issues which underlie the fallacy of mental illness, no.


    Studies have demonstrated for decades that those labeled “mentally ill” have a lower incidence of violent behavior than the public at large.

    Still sounds like you are trying to apologize for, maybe not the mentally ill, but for those labeled as “mentally ill”. I still cannot completely go along with that. It still amounts to asking for pity.

    No, the system probably is not going to do us any favors. But that is all the more reason not to be apologizing for those labeled as “mentally ill”. So an alternative bill is primarily rhetorical, to get people to think about things in a different way.

    You wrote,

    The only bill I can imagine introducing would be one prohibiting state funds from financing or supporting any sort of psychiatric involvement in people’s lives, especially involuntarily.

    The alternative bill I am suggesting largely does that. Most of the mental health system would be neutralized, no records, no forced treatment, most all dealings with children would be under the supervision of the court, as it is a suspected case of familial child abuse, and the parents are to be held fully accountable. The court is the only entity which has authority over the parents. So the court is the only way to penalize the parents, or stop any and all forms of “therapy” if the court deems that necessary.

    “A Community to Remake Mental Health”
    Of course I am 100% opposed to anything like that. Thank you for pointing it out to me. I have no idea who is actually running this, or what drives them.

    Psychiatric medications are wrong, not because they are not effective, but because they are at least a little bit effective. They are intended to be a surer and cheaper way of doing the same thing to people which psychotherapy does, making people dissociate from their own lived experience. People are supposed to believe that they do not have to fight to redress the injustices which have shaped their lives, and they do not need to restore their social and civil legitimacy. Instead, both psychotherapy and psychiatric medications are designed to make people believe that they can just live in the limited social space left, and just believe that nothing is wrong. These medications are happy pills.

    Does anyone know of more radical forums, ones where people plan how to take legal and political action to vindicate and compensate the survivors of child abuse and the mental health system, instead of conning people with therapy, recovery, and healing?

    Please Join, Organize, Take Legal Action, Take Political Action, not therapy, recovery, or healing:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/tangible-results-t357.html

    Nomadic

  • There need to be safety valves for the middle-class family. A parent might indeed be depressed. Some have nervous breakdowns and then get 5150ed, and then put on drugs.

    Maybe they will be able to make changes in their lives, but maybe they will not be able to.

    We have the availability of divorce, as no fault as possible. Maybe that will be used maybe it will not be. But me MUST PROTECT CHILDREN, and the only way to do this is to provide children with other places to go, and with other people to connect with.

    Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/free-expression-f2.html

    Nomadic

  • Kelly,

    I take exception to your article. You are trying to prescribe what is “normal” behavior. You are at least setting the stage for psychiatric policing.

    People have reasons for why they behave the way they do. Much of it has to do with what realistic options are available.

    But there is another deeper issue here, children are exploited and abused in the middle-class family, because that is how the middle-class family originally emerged. Every society inscribes upon its members, both children and adults. But the middle-class family is unique in that people deliberately choose to have children, in order to give themselves an adult identity. And then as there usually are problems, the children have to absorb the stigmas.

    So when you are tying to say what is normal, you are putting out a doctrine which is going to fall upon children.

    So a parent feels embarrassed by a child, and then soon that child is diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Or a parent finds that their relationship with their child has broken down, so soon a doctor is hired and that child is diagnosed with ADHD and placed in drugs. And then another typical case is you have parents who have lived on street drugs and alcohol, and then they got Saved, and so now their child is looked to as the one who is not on board, and so it ends up in Saddleback Church founder Rick Warren’s Mental Health Ministry, setting their child up for the same suicide that came to Warren’s son Matthew.

    All of this works by turning the accusatory finger back onto the child victim. But then your ideas amount to the same thing, or this is how it would work out.

    If someone has a stigmatized identity they have to defend themselves by shutting of most social contact to protect themselves from additional material harm.

    Redress for Wrongs will solve the problems. But you are not interested in that, just like others who go along with the ideas of therapy, recover, and healing are not. So most people end up in Recovery and Religion, believing that they themselves are the problem.

    Our own bill to counter Murphy
    Please Join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/our-own-bill-to-counter-murphy-t359.html

    Nomadic

  • Matt, Therapists have their own denial systems, and they need to defend them. So they really are not in any position to be hearing another person’s pain. All they do is let you talk yourself out, and then tell you that you just have to learn to live with it. They would not be therapists unless they were committed to the premise that it is morally superior to respond to abuse and injustice by doing NOTHING!

    Nomadic

  • As a way of opposing all of the Murphy bills, how about if we offer our own bill? Of course we will need to have members of the legislature, the House of Representatives, because it will be some kind of a spending bill, introduce it. But to get that we first have to come up with the basic ideas of the bill.

    The bill probably would rescind the more problematic components of all of the versions of the Murphy bills. But more importantly, it advances a completely different interpretation of the issues. So if people accept our view, then they won’t likely be supporting any of the Murphy bills, or anything else like that.

    Now some have offered pro-mental health / recovery / therapy anti-Murphy talking points. That’s the way of Uncle Tom. I am completely opposed to that.

    Others have suggested developing anti-mental health anti-Murphy talking points. I support that fully. But how about going a step further, actually offering a counter plan. So it is not just a different philosophy, it is an actual plan that people can sign on to.

    Remember that SCOTUS has decided that we cannot retroactively extend criminal SOLs, but we can retroactively extend civil SOLs.

    Now some of this probably is already covered under existing law, but it just hasn’t been interpreted or enforced this way. Even before there is new legislation, we should start trying to enforce existing law this way.

    FAMILIAL CHILD ABUSE PREVENTION ACT

    1. Parents or other caretakers are 100% financially liable for any acts taken for the purpose of harming or otherwise psychologically injuring or incapacitating any minor child in their care. And there is no time limit or maximum dollar amount on this, and it cannot be discharged by state or federal bankruptcy. Equal share inheritance is required by law. Money can no longer be given to outside parties or distributed unequally, as that power now resides with the heirs, not the testators.

    2. The giving of medications to a child purely for the intent of altering their mood, perception of reality, or mental state, is a mid level felony.

    3. There can never be any type of forced psychological or psychiatric treatment for anyone, and no one is ever allowed to keep any records of psychological or psychiatric treatment of anyone, and this includes, but it not limited to the military, criminal justice system, and the prison system.

    4. Any kind of a doctor, therapist, worker at a youth center, or clergy, who works with a child who is showing the signs of emotional, psychological, physical, sexual, or medical abuse must report this within 48 hours to CPS and law enforcement, or they are guilty of a first level felony, enhanced by a mandatory arrest requirement.

    5. Funds must be provided for CPS and law enforcement to be able to handle this case load.

    6. There are to be funds which must be used for every place with 15k population or more to have a 24hr per day youth drop in center, where counselors will be available at all times to talk with them and to solve problems. And of course the counselors are subject to mandatory reporting, and at no time can a child be returned to a dangerous environment. Likewise there will be money for telephone hot lines to report and discuss suspected cases of medical, emotional, psychological, or physical or sexual abuse. And youth are encouraged to call this if at any time they find themselves face to face with a psychotherapist, psychiatrist, developmental disorders, or family relations counselor. That is, there has to be some outside oversight to protect the well being of the child, whenever such practitioners are brought into play.

    People have any other ideas?

    Right now the Good Family people, with their collective denial system, control most of the wealth and assets of our society, most of the high wage employment, and most of the institutions of higher learning. While we who are the Survivors of the Middle-Class Family are told that we need therapy, healing, and recovery. So what we really need to do is to organize and start fighting back.

    Psychological distress is not caused by any moral or medical problem, and we do not need healing, we need victories and vindication.

    Psychological distress is caused by being without power and by having power unfairly used against us. Any talk about therapy, healing, and recovery are just more abuse, Second Rape.

    http://davidsmail.info/introfra.htm

    We also should be setting up our own foster care group homes, which will in many ways resemble Israeli Kibbutzes.

    We Must Employ All Available Means To Stop Saddleback founder Rick Warren’s Mental Health and Recovery ministries!
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/rick-warren-first-class-creep-t351.html

    Nomadic

  • I want to retract a statement I made to Frank B. He suggested that simply by not seeing a psychotherapist, that that constitutes Tangible Results.

    Not seeing a psychotherapist, not disclosing your affairs to someone who is not a comrade, is a necessary and commendable first step. But by Tangible Results, I mean engaging in conflicts with the abusers and winning. This is how we restore our social and civil standing.

    Turn the other cheek means letting the attacker see that they are not going to humiliate you into submission, and that if they want a fight, it will be a real fight.

    The idea that people need “healing from the effects of child abuse” is simply wrong. It is a way of convincing survivors that the problem lies entirely within themselves and was caused by events of long ago.

    But this is all bogus, the issue is social and civil standing, power, right now!

    The way we get this is by standing up for ourselves and gaining Tangible Results, instead of Therapeutic Release.

    Therapeutic Release sounds rather like masturbation, because that it what it means. Confessing to your therapist and punching pillows and screaming at them histrionically is a great deal like masturbation.

    To obtain Tangible Results, we must organize and then escalate conflicts.

    Slavery in the US ended because people made enforcement of the 1850 Fugitive Slave Act extremely difficult, because John Brown organized and executed a raid on Harper’s Ferry, and because 180,000 Black men trained with rifles and bayonets and served in federal uniform.

    Ending the abuses at the core of the middle-class family and letting we the survivors have social legitimacy instead of “healing” and “recovery” is going to be at least as difficult as it was to end slavery.

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/rick-warren-first-class-creep-t351.html

    This Rick Warren, founder of the Saddleback Church in Orange County California, seems to be the one who has gone the furthest, in unifying the objectives of Psychotherapy, Psychiatry, Psychiatric Medications, Recovery, Motivationalism, and Salvation Seeking. And whereas most evangelicals send out people to proselytize, this guy has a program to train “counselors”, that he sends out, and they have “donated” 50,000 hours of counseling time, as of 2011. So his trademark thesis is, “Everybody needs Recovery.”

    I say this is a monumental threat to life, liberty, and happiness!

    And now he also has some sort of a Mental Health Ministry.

    If Warren is like other evangelicals, his sermons and his writings will be saturated with accounts of all the troubles he has had with his youngest son Matthew, and of all the Christian Pity he has shown, not unlike the writings of the Pentecostal Daughter Molester I helped to put into our state prison.

    I say that Warren’s preaching and sermons are likely to contain enough to at least destroy his credibility, if not get a criminal conviction.

    Imagine if instead of Recovery, Therapy, and proving that we can comply with the Self-Reliance Ethic and hence are accepting the views of our parents, we the Survivors of the Middle-Class Family finally decided to organize and stand up for ourselves. We could make substantial political and legal change.

    We could organize our own foster care group home. What he have today is horrid, because otherwise it would undermine the justifications behind the middle-class family. But our group home will be superb. It would have some similarity to an Israeli Kibbutz.

    You will never eradicate the middle-class family, and I would never want to try. But you can neutralize its effects, simply by making sure that children are not private property and that they have rights, and that they always have other places to go and other people looking out for them, and then by holding parents fully accountable anytime there is any kind of a problem.

    Doctors who put kids on psych meds should be tried in International Court for Crimes Against Humanity. This way they cannot invoke the Adolph Eichmann defense, saying they were following the law. And doctors who market a Fix My Kid service to parents, but don’t report to CPS, should be convicted of felonies in our own courts, and incarcerated.

    And we should educate everyone as to the fallacy of Psychotherapy, and how what it amounts to is people disclosing their personal affairs to someone who is not a Comrade, but is a Commiserator. What they give you is not empathy, it is pity. They are committed to the premise that it is morally superior to tune out and practice the denial system of Live and Let Live. So always, with zero exceptions, Psychotherapy is Second Rape.

    And we can educate people as to the chemical assault which is Psychiatric Medications. These drugs are wrong because they are used to do the same thing which Psychotherapy does, dissociate people from their feelings. So it is wrong to manufacture and distribute the drugs. It is wrong to conduct tests with them, giving out the drugs, giving out placebos, or to be testing people for their depressive or suicidal tendencies. What the drugs and the studies do is try to convince people that the reason for their distress lies entirely between their own two ears.

    So there is only one piece of information people need to know about these drugs, and that is that they are water soluble and so you can dump them into the toilet. But wait, I’ll heed Franks admonition, that flushing them down the toilet could prove a problem for our drinking water.

    So instead we, the Survivors of the Middle-Class Family, which will also include the overwhelming majority of the Survivors of Psychotherapy and Psychiatry, want anyone who has been given psychiatric medications to call our legal arm, because we will act. And you should give the entire container of medications, unopened to your attorney, because it will be entered into evidence.

    Nomadic

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  • Yes, forced drugging is wrong. It is wrong because there should not be involuntary treatments, except maybe for when the patient is unable to speak for themselves and it is necessary for their life. Psych meds would never be included in this. But it is also wrong for doctors to be giving people such drugs, because the drugs are intended to do the same things which Psychotherapy does, dissociate people from their feelings, and this is wrong.

    So if we have to have such drugs at all, maybe they could be offered along with decriminalized street drugs or with herbal and homeopathic remedies, with no prescription and no FDA approvals.

    America is a Middle-Class society because being middle-class is a way of thinking, not a range of income levels. Mostly it comes down to the idea that people are expected to conform with the earning a living ethic, and that their social legitimacy is measured this way. It is unclear if in America there ever was any other class, but there certainly is not today. Even the poorest of the poor, the homeless, usually profess belief in middle-class values. All the more so because this profession of belief is usually the only claim to social legitimacy and mental health that they have left. Someone who does not profess allegiance to middle-class norms is usually seen as mentally ill.

    But, there are people, who though not a member of any other class, still act against the interests of the middle-class. 🙂

    My sources for this view are Hardt and Negri, and Deleuze and Guattari, but there are lots of others too. And lots of people have over the last 160 years written updates to the Communist Manifesto, because they don’t see there as being a proletariat anymore.

    Corporate imperialism and rule by rich oligarchs is a serious problem and it does have much to do with the shaping of our society. But these oligarchs still rule by promoting middle class norms. Politics, religion, and commercial advertising all use images of the middle-class family in order to promote themselves.

    And this middle-class is the first group which has actually had choice in how it lives. But it does not want to feel this choice, so it hides behind a reactionary identity. And as such it has children by choice, but it does not want to admit that it was a choice. So they use children, exploit them. And this is how the children end up getting sent to doctors and end up getting convinced that they have something wrong with them. And there are doctors who market themselves to parents, with this fix my kid doctrine, and always completely exonerating the parents. Some of these are even anti-psych med doctors. But they still are committed to exonerating the parents, disregarding mandatory reporting, and making the child feel that they were wrong for ever feeling their feelings and seeing how their parents are psychically maiming them.

    I believe that if there were aggressive outside intervention early on, a full parentectomy, this Matthew Warren, son of Saddleback Church founder Rick Warren could have been saved from a life of grief and suicide. All the better if the son could have been publicly vindicated by seeing the assets of his parents confiscated and put into a trust for the children. I do not have evidence to show this yet, but I will be looking for it.

    Yes, Frank, I agree with you, if you are not seeing a therapist, and for anyone who is not seeing a therapist, that is at least a first level real world victory. At least we are not confessing our private matters to someone who is not a Comrade in any sense, but is only a Commiserator.

    I am not opposed to making babies either. And I would never try to stop people from doing such. But I think if one wants to understand what is happening today, then one needs to look at what is driving most of the people who do it. I say that Simone de Beauvoir got it right, “For most women maternity is an inauthentic choice.”

    Fascinating book, tracing this idea through the entire corpus of de Beauvoir’s writings:
    https://www.amazon.com/Beauvoir-Demystification-Motherhood-Challenging-Literary/dp/0835719782/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475442123&sr=8-1&keywords=Patterson%2C+Yolanda+Astarita

    And I am not trying to put the entire responsibility onto the women either. It is just that the sentimentalization of babies and maternity is focused on women.

    Opposing the Murphy bill is inseparably linked with opposing the goals and objectives of Psychotherapy, opposing the identical goals and objectives of Psychiatry, and opposing the Fix Me and Fix My Kid industries. These are all based on the premise that people have some kind of innate moral defect.

    What is a Saddleback?
    http://saddleback.com/watch/media/what-is-a-saddleback

    “second chance grace place … everybody needs RECOVERY … You need RECOVERY in every area of your life.”

    Listen to this imbecile talk. I can’t take more than a few minutes of it without my blood vaporizing. But after listening some, are you surprised at all to hear that he had a son, who supposedly “struggled with mental illness”, and that two years after Rick Warren gave this talk, that 27 year old son finally took his own life by shooting himself in the head?

    And then the next year, Rick Warren starting a “Mental Health Ministry”, and receiving letters from 10,000 church members explaining how their families have “struggled with mental illness”, does that concern you?

    “Saddleback Church is a Hospital for Sinners, not a Hotel for Saints.”

    He has made needing Recovery into the new Original Sin.

    Frank writes, “I’m opposed to child molestation.”

    Great. But do you understand that most familial child abuse is done under the cover of the idea that the child is defective, and that the abuse is for the child’s own good. Of the guy I helped put into our state prison, his entire Pentecostal church was standing behind him, saying that everyone must forgive and that his daughters are liars.

    He was afraid that his children were not going to turn out like himself and the other members of his church. So with the son, they got him removed from the home and from regular high school, under the pretext that he had a ~~Brain Chemical Imbalance~~, and that he was dangerous to himself and others, and that he needed to be on mind destroying drugs for the rest of his life.

    And then with the girls, sexual molestation. And then sometimes apologizing to them the next day.

    Does it bother you that Saddleback Church has trained thousands of counselors, who go out and get people to confess their private matters to them, so that they can make them believe that the only one wrong is themselves, for not forgiving?

    Without this idea that people need to be fixed, NO MURPHY BILL. But as long as we believe that people’s problems exist only in their own heads and in their own unwillingness to forgive, then we have Psychotherapy, Psychiatry, Medications, Forced Treatment, the Murphy bill, and people like Rick Warren and his followers.

    Frank wrote, “Tangible results do require people working together to achieve them, yes. Sometimes doing so is not as easy as one might imagine it to be. I don’t want to discourage anyone from trying to change things.”

    That’s great. But as long as people believe that their problems reside between their own two ears, and that they are supposed to forgive instead of fight, then they are rendered incapable of working for tangible results.

    I think Senator Al Franken of Minnesota is someone who would be reachable.

    Nomadic

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  • What will stop the abuse is holding the abuser parents accountable, and in the only way they understand, taking their money away from them. Put it in a trust fund for all of their children. Do this, and they will stop trying to say that the scapegoat has a defect, because they will see that it makes them into the public example, not the scapegoat.

    Again, consider the suicide of Rick Warren’s youngest son Matthew at the age of 27, and supposedly long struggling with “mental illness”, and Warren starting a mental illness ministry and getting over 10,000 letters from members of his church, detailing the struggles their families have with mental illness.

    And as far as kindness, we cannot approach any of this by seeking pity. We are facing continuous mortal threat, and the way this is justified is by Social Darwinism and Eugenics. They are saying that we deserve what we get, because we are not fit to live. And they justify this by our passivity.

    How else could someone be persuaded to ingest even a single psychiatric medication pill, unless they had been convinced that there was something wrong with them?

    So I agree with Oldhead in saying that they are focusing on the stigma, instead of the illness, in opposing this entertainment. But then the problem is that the illness is non-existent.

    We need to be life affirming, and this means organizing and standing up for ourselves, showing that we are not afraid of conflicts, and that we will act.

    This is the same sort of an issue I have with the Autism Self-Advocacy Network. Saying that they don’t want others characterizing them is fine. But they are still going along with this idea of “neurological difference”, even though there is no sensible reason for believing that this exists. So they are representing themselves, but they have still accepted a fallacious identity.

    So no, we don’t want people playing to negative stereotypes of the mentally ill. But we also should not be cooperating with those who want to promote the idea that mental illness is real.

    And then of psych meds, the problem with them is not just that they cause side effects, cause liver damage, and may not really do all that they are intended to.

    No, the problem with psych meds is that they are intended to be a cheaper and simpler way of doing what Psychotherapy does. Psychotherapy is intended to make people distrust their innate impulses, their powers of perception, and their feelings. It is intended to make people accept abuse and never try to fight back. Psychotherapy is designed to execute exactly the same types of abuse that the Middle-Class Family has been entrusted to execute.

    So as Psychotherapy is wrong. It is also wrong to try and invent medications which do the same thing. And it is wrong to have discussions about whether these medications are effective, because that is legitimating the intent, and that intent is completely wrong.

    So it is wrong to give people the drugs. And it is wrong to give people placebos, as that still amounts to trying to convince them that they have something wrong with them. And it is wrong to give people tests and evaluations to see if their experience has come back into some normal range, because people need to feel how they feel. If they are angry, then there must be good reason for it. If they are suicidal, well there must be good reason for that too, and they need to feel it.

    It is wrong to do anything which is about developing technologies to manage people’s feelings.

    I know that this is what Foucault was calling Bio-Power.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopower

    And it is not just Psychotherapy and Psychiatry, it is also the Pedagogy and Child Development Manuals,
    https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Sling-Real-Life-Confident-Attachment/dp/1451662181/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1475353003&sr=8-2&keywords=mayim+bialik

    And it is also all the pronatalist images used by religion, commercial advertising, and the political sector. I am convinced that much of it goes right back to Jean-Jacques Rousseau, his pedagogy Emile, and to his romanticizations of nature.

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    Nomadic

  • I am surprised that Al Franken of Minnesota is listed as a supporter. I would think he would be amenable to a counter argument.

    Now having said that, Minnesota is home to some of the worst Recovery Movement forums in the country. If you join one of those, and you don’t go along with the “working on myself, getting better every day, never ever would talk a self-affirming action” doctrine, then you are gone.

    But on the whole I don’t think that is representative of the state, or especially of Franken.

    They just passed the Minnesota Child Victims Act.
    http://sol-reform.com/minnesota/
    follow link to read text and description.

    Once people are shown that all this is about is just familial child abuse, then they will see right away that the mental health system should be eradicated, flushed down the toilet with all the medications.

    And also they need to see that we the survivors, are not going to be herded, but that we will fight back.

    Right now, with Therapy and Recovery, we are being herded.

    Nomadic

  • Philip Hickey, I appreciate your very well written and informative article.

    Mostly, I like the fact that you are not engaging in the fallacy of promoting Psychotherapy and Recovery, as the alternative to Psychiatry and Medication. You aren’t doing anything like that.

    Reading the quotes you offer in your article, it becomes ever more clear that this Murphy bill does promote the idea of “mental illness”, the idea that people “need help”, and that people need “Recovery”.

    You show us that what has driven our supposed “mental health crisis” is, “… psychiatry’s spurious and self-serving premise that all significant problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving are brain illnesses that are correctable by psychiatric drugs.”

    And I’m sure you understand that what so much of this also revolves around is the creation of an untouchable caste, family scapegoats, who never will be in a position to manage their own affairs, but who will be run by public health care for the bulk of their lives. This is driven in part by the progressive gutting of our economy, and of the public services designed to mitigate it.

    And I offer as an example of where this family scapegoating goes, the suicide of Evangelical and Recovery Movement leader Rick Warren’s son Matthew.
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/rick-warren-first-class-creep-t351.html

    So do you agree with me that we must reject pity seeking, and instead mount a strident opposition to Murphy, the entire Mental Health System, and to Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and the concept of Recovery? And this might include, besides refusal of all cooperation and flushing meds down toilets, actions to get Psychiatrists criminally prosecuted, to put some Psychotherapists our of business, and legal and political actions to protect all children and to vindicate adult survivors of childhood familial abuses.

    Nomadic

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  • Yes, making entertainment which promotes the concept of mental illness and stereotypes about it, is no good. So this is good that people were able to stand up to it at these theme parks and get it stopped.

    But, there are others promoting the concept of mental illness, as well as familial child scapegoating and abuse.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Warren#Personal


    Warren’s youngest son, Matthew, took his own life April 6, 2013, after years of struggling with mental illness. Almost a year after his son’s suicide, Warren launched a ministry to educate the Church on its role to help people struggling with mental illness with a Mental Illness and the Church Gathering in March 2014.[12] In the year following the suicide, Warren says that more than 10,000 people wrote to him about their struggles with mental illness within the Church.

    I say that Warren is promoting the bogus concept of mental illness and that he is promoting what the Evangelical Churches like his are already based on, child abuse and child scapegoating.

    I feel that Daniel Mackler was 100% correct when he said, “Suicide is the ultimate victory of the Family System.”

    And so yes, we need to stand up to this Murphy bill. But we can’t do that by asking for pity. We need to completely reject all aspects of the concept of mental illness and mental health. And these include Psychiatry, Psychiatric Medications, Psychotherapy, and Recovery.

    Instead we must show that all these things are is a cover up and legitimation for familial child abuse. And so the way to fight back is by legal and political action, not confessing on the therapist’s couch.

    Murphy and his allies are helping child abusers. We must show this, and we must work for tangible results, instead of seeking therapeutic release in our therapists’ offices.

    Look for my newest posts here, and please join:
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    Nomadic

  • But discussing whether or not psych meds are effective is legitimating what they are being used to try and do. And this is wrong. It is wrong to try and placate or pacify people, or to put them out of touch with their feelings. Giving someone a real pill, a placebo pill, or trying to do it by talking to them or by getting them to vent, are all wrong.

    That it is being done for a study, does not make it acceptable.

    Just like it is not ethical to use data from the bogus medical research done in the Nazi Camps, we should not be using research data collected about drugs, when what those drugs are being used for is wrong.

    Nomadic

  • Frank, I do not agree with you. Psychiatric drugging is wrong because what is being intended, manipulating people and cutting them off from their feelings, is wrong. So I am not interested in debates about it’s effectiveness, because it is being used to try and achieve an effect which is wrong.

    And Frank, we’ve discussed this before, being middle-class is not to be of an income level. It is more a way of thinking. In a place like the US today, there is no other class.

    Yale’s John Merriman
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEk1JAkyvj4

    It is a reactionary identification system, and it is predicated on the exploitation and abuse of children. There are people who operate against the interests of the middle-class, but there still is no other class.

    “Parents are guardians of their children by nature and law. That some of them seem unaware of this “accountability” is not my doing. ”

    What on earth are you talking about? Children are not property, and this is by matter of law.

    The isolation and lack of protection which most children live in is the direct result of the rise of the middle-class family, and of the ideologies which justify it.

    “As for ‘tangible victories’, I’m wondering when your sense of realism is ever going to kick in. ”

    And again, what non-sense are you talking? Tangible victories means real world results, rather than venting in your therapist’s office. Thing will change when parents are held accountable, and in most cases this will mean taking their money away from them. Right now people can make babies with the intent of abusing them, and this is often profitable, because of our antiquated inheritance laws. When parents can no longer do this, use child exploitation, scapegoating, and abuse to make themselves look good, and instead it costs them and makes them into public examples, then things will change.

    Frank wrote, “The Murphy bill would make matters worse, surely, but they are bad to begin with.”

    Yes of course. And for this reason, we cannot oppose the Murphy Bill while still acting like Psychotherapy and Recovery and the entire Fix Me industry are anything other than more abuse and a con. We need to also act against these. Putting some of them out of business will not be that hard. Myself, I was involved in getting an Alano Club evicted. And I also helped to get a Pentecostal Daughter Molester, he and the wife using sexual molestation on the girls and the concept of mental illness on the boy, to make themselves look good, into our state prison.

    Tangible results can be had if people are willing to work to achieve them, but not if people invent reactionary lines of argumentation and instead decide to live in the very small social space which abuse survivors have left open to them.

    And then like this, the suicide of Rick Warren’s son, we need to be standing up and offering the other and obvious interpretation:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/rick-warren-first-class-creep-t351.html

    Nomadic

  • Matt and Frank,

    I am sorry that you each were subjected to forced treatment. There is no conceivable justification for that. It should never happen, and we must act to make sure that it stops and never happens again.

    But having said this, I ask each of you to consider some other things. Do we really want to be sanctioning debates and clinical trials, to decide whether or not psychiatric medications are effective, or if people should just be given psychotherapy and then be considered as “in recovery”? Shouldn’t we instead be saying that it makes no difference what psychiatric medications do, because no one is going to be taking them anymore because what they are intended to do is wrong?

    And then I ask you to further consider, if we leave any door open and act like psychotherapy or recovery could be solutions to people’s problems, then that still is also leaving a door open that in some cases, psychiatric medications could still be necessary.

    So there really is no way that we can fight against this Murphy Bill, unless we completely reject all aspects of this idea that the problem and the cure are in someone’s own head. So what we have are people approaching the situation by asking for pity for the afflicted, and writing this kind of stuff in letters to the Boston Globe. All the while Murphy stands behind the parents, and their designation of a child as the scapegoat, and while our Capitalist system needs this in order to maintain compliance and control. So what has been created in this country today is a massive industry which exists to scapegoat children, at the behest of the parents, and we have ended up with a vast untouchable caste which lives on alcohol, street drugs, tobacco, and psychiatric medications, and then dances around calling out the name of an idol, hoping that he will finally hear them and make it rain on them.

    Countless numbers of persons are growing up in environments when they are psychologically abused until they feel that their own desires and inclinations are evil, and that they must instead submit to these outside normative standards. Usually this is justified under the doctrine of Self-Reliance. But what it really is, is simply that the parent does not want to face their own pain, and they don’t want the child to have any chance of growing up differently than they did.

    The middle-class is after all the first group of people who really see themselves as having choices in how they live. But rather than face these choices, they instead try to hide behind outer appearances. So they have children in order to give themselves social legitimacy, and they try to hide behind these children, and they expect the children to go along with this.

    When it doesn’t work, bring on the doctors.

    And none of this will ever change until the parents are held accountable. But in most cases, as the children go along with it, there is no way anything could be done. But in a few cases the children do resist. But then as long as these children end up in Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery, that chance to take effective action is lost.

    And we the survivors will never have a legitimated social identity until the world understands what our struggle has been, and until we have got some tangible victories to show. And it is absolutely impossible that we ever could have this, so long as we are supporting any aspect of psychiatry, psychotherapy, or recovery.

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    Nomadic

  • And how about today, where Social Darwinism and Eugenics are again on the rise. So rather than have low paid laborers as our scapegoats, we get our scapegoats from the middle-class family itself, and it is done with Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery.

    So the scapegoats end up living completely marginalized lives, if not psych meds, then street drugs and alcohol. And all the while the White Coats are debating whether psych meds are effective, or if Psychotherapy and Recovery are enough to do the job.

    Nomadic

  • I’ve said that this is a civilized country, so that we have to handle things in court rooms.

    Well, for a child being subjected to psychological and emotional abuse in the middle-class family, this is not a civilized society, not at all. There is no outside protection, and there is no redress.

    Underlying the physical, sexual, medical, and religious abuse, there is always psychological abuse. The intent behind all these kinds of abuse is to break the child’s spirit. And the middle-class family never would have emerged if it were not able to use child abuse to justify itself.

    So while there are some protections against sexual abuse, and some very limited protections against physical abuse, the protections against medical abuse are very few, and the protections against religious abuse are near to none. But the protections against psychological and emotional abuse are zero.

    The writer Stephen King has always done a great job in depicting these kinds of normative middle-class family situations. And for decades now, he has always been getting help from his wife Tabitha. I recommend Gerald’s Game.

    Why would someone submit to psychiatry, psychotherapy, or recovery, unless they had already been convinced that their feelings and their desires and impulses were wrong?

    Its rather like saying, “My parents abused me every day. But clearly that was not sufficient, because I still needed psychiatrists and psychotherapists to further abuse me. But now I am in recovery, so I abuse myself, and soon I will be dead.”

    Nomadic

  • Matt, I commend you for educating yourself and no longer allowing psychiatrists to prey on you.

    But as long as you offer cooperation to psychotherapists and recovery, then you are still going along with the idea that people have mental or moral defects, and need to be talked into compliance.


    Hardly any of the ‘symptoms’ of psychological distress may correctly be seen as medical matters. The so-called psychiatric ‘disorders’ are nothing to do with faulty biology, nor indeed are they the outcome of individual moral weakness or other personal failing. They are the creation of the social world in which we live, and that world is structured by power.
    Social power may be defined as the means of obtaining security or advantage, and it will be exercised within any given society in a variety of forms: coercive (force), economic (money power) and ideological (the control of meaning). Power is the dynamic which keeps the social world in motion. It may be used for good or for ill.

    http://davidsmail.info/introfra.htm

    You are standing in the way of those who want vindication, and not further victimization.

    Please join, easier to talk:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/attorney-s-needed-t348.html#p681

    Nomadic

  • Are Psychotherapists Bull Shitters? And is Recovery a Fraud?

    Yes to both questions. Survivors do not need healing or recovery. Those are a hoax. And they don’t need therapists knowing their personal affairs.

    What survivors need are comrades and attorneys, because this is how we fight back and restore our social and civil standing so that we can have a legitimate place in this world.

    Psychiatry, Psychiatric Meds, Discussions About the Effectiveness of Psych Meds, and Psychotherapy and Recovery ARE JUST MORE ABUSE!

    Nomadic

  • Michael, people feel anger. It is just that way. And usually anger is what people are most afraid of.

    But I agree with you that guilt and shame are something which are induced. But never the less, they are not really avoidable. Once one sees how they were induced, one is most likely going to feel pain and anger, over what was done to them. People must be free to fell this as it comes.

    Nomadic

  • Oldhead, are you replying to me?

    Of course it is possible that someone could gain some insight from one on one sessions with a counselor. But is that the best way to learn? Hardly. And what has a counselor ever done to obtain vindication for a client? The idea that the client is in need of “healing” or “recovery” is a scam. It is just another layer of abuse. What survivors need is vindication, and the only way to get this is to fight back and win.

    As far as The Family being the only institution corrupted by Capitalism, no I have never said such a thing. But I will say that the exploitation which the middle-class family was developed to inflict, is the reason people are so crippled, turned into neurotics on the couch, or in the psych ward bed, instead of out vanquishing foes.

    Tactics, as far as my tactics I don’t have any because doing much of anything requires comrades. This means people who want to fight back and win, rather than asking for pity in the recovery group, the evangelical pews, or on the therapist’s couch.

    Nomadic

  • Frank, the Self-Reliance Ethic is Other-Reliance. It means using shame and humiliation to convince a child that its desires and instincts are wrong, and that instead it must submit to normative social standards. So rather than Other-Reliance, you could say it is Other-Submission.

    This is how Einstein’s get turned into Homer Simpson’s. And the fall out from this is people in Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Evangelical Religion.

    And it is just like Original Sin, because that entails convincing a child that by its own desires and abilities that it is operating in defiance of God.

    The reason we have so much of this is that Capitalism needs scapegoats at the bottom to make the people in the middle comply. These scapegoats used to be found in the immigrants and minorities who did cheap labor and slave labor.

    But now in the information age, the need for labor is less. So our society wants people in disability and welfare, and locked in psych wards and prisons.

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    Nomadic

  • Matt,

    Yes, I am glad that you have critiqued the existing model of “schizophrenia”, recounted your “psychotic” experiences, and I know that doing this with your real name has entailed taking on risk.

    But do you really want people to express their dissatisfaction with the “psychiatric system”, or do you want like I do to abolish it and see doctors criminally prosecuted, and to start filing law suits? And as most of this does originate with middle-class child abuse, do you want as I do, to start suing parents, and to reform the inheritance laws?

    And do you want to oppose the Murphy Bill, by making it clear that the psychiatric system is simply preying on the survivors of familial childhood abuses, and also by making it clear that its more draconian components will be completely unenforceable? Do you, as I do, support the idea of zero cooperation of any type with psychiatry, psychotherapy, or recovery?

    You wrote, “Nomadic, I would not agree that this is a general rule, i.e. that therapists by nature turn sufferer’s problems back on themselves.”

    Well, what else is it that they do?

    Imagine if a rape victim walked into a police station to report the crime, and what she was told was about,

    * healing and recovery
    * not having to be angry anymore, and that her feelings can be changed
    * about getting support with her recovery

    This is what anti-rape activists have long referred to as Second Rape. It may not be that the other party, your therapist, does not believe you. It is simply that your therapist is committed to the premise that doing absolutely nothing is the morally superior course to take.

    Now given that ours is a civilized country, there are strict limits on the sorts of actions which can be used in order to obtain redress. So redress is obtained in a court room, either civil, criminal, or both.

    If your therapist believed that you were entitled to redress, they would have experience helping people obtain such. But in fact, they are only a therapist because they believe that you are not entitled to redress. They believe that the problem, and any solutions, lies between your own two ears. They believe that the only problem is simply that you have not yet learned to live with the abuses, and to conform to societal expectations.

    No matter what they do with you, you will still be left with zero legitimated biography. And the reason for this is that you, following their counsel, have declined to take any actions whatsoever to even attempt to obtain redress.

    Psychotherapy is a scam, it is another layer of abuse, and what they offer you is not care or concern, it is pity. And I say this because they don’t want you to stand up for yourself and regain a legitimated social identity. Rather, they are just waiting for you to give up, and accept the very limited social reality you have been left with. Your psychotherapist is a collaborator with child abusers.

    Again, thank you for your article, and I look forward to the second part. Congratulations on the ways in which you educated yourself. Notice I make no mention of anything like Recovery or Therapy.

    Attorney’s Needed! We should be suing institutions, psychiatrists, psychotherapists, and parents. This, and not psychotherapy, is how WE the survivors, gain a legitimated social identity.

    Please join, easier to talk:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/attorney-s-needed-t348.html#p681

    Nomadic

  • Matt Stevenson, thank you for your article.

    The concept of mental illness, along with psychiatry, psychotherapy, recovery, and medications, are all simply ways of facilitating familial child abuse.

    The best remedy for the effects of familial child abuse, is political and legal action. And in these areas right now we are horribly weak.

    I look forward to the second part of your article.

    Nomadic

    easier to talk here, please join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/free-expression-f2.html

  • I agree fully with what Oldhead has posted,
    https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/09/dear-son/#comment-95241

    “In reality the “mental health” system exists primarily to control the disgruntled populace, not to help us with our pain. By redefining our natural reactions to oppression as issues with our own “mental health” the psychiatric system functions on behalf of the prison industrial complex to persuade people that “there’s nothing wrong with us, it must be you.”

    Michael, you are making people wrong for feeling angry, guilty, and shameful. What you are doing to people is WRONG! If you do it to a child, especially if the child is not really there voluntarily, then that is child abuse.

    Nomadic

  • I agree fully with Oldhead,

    “In reality the “mental health” system exists primarily to control the disgruntled populace, not to help us with our pain. By redefining our natural reactions to oppression as issues with our own “mental health” the psychiatric system functions on behalf of the prison industrial complex to persuade people that “there’s nothing wrong with us, it must be you.”

    Nomadic

  • “the rejection and extinction of the experience of guilt and shame is a revolutionary act of self-love”

    People need to feel their feelings, even when they are negative. What you are putting out Michael, is a doctrine of denial. This is harmful and dangerous.

    You seem to think that it is elevated. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    What you are putting out humiliates and shames those you direct it at.

    http://www.alice-miller.com/en/the-essential-role-of-an-enlightened-witness-in-society-2/

    Nomadic

  • Claudia, whether you believe that ADHD exists or not, you are still looking at it, and at the child who is considered to have it, as a problem to be solved, or as a disease to be cured.

    If you see that a child “has it”, and you believe that it is environmental, then this is why we have mandatory reporting laws. Doctors in public practice usually follow it. Those in private practice seem not to, as the understanding is that they can be hired by the parents to do their fixing job.

    Rather than looking at ADHD cases as a disease to be cured or a problem to be solved, rather how about as a child that needs to be Vindicated instead of being further Victimized by its parents, school teachers, and more doctors.

    I think we should set up a toll free phone number for juveniles who feel they are being Medically Exploited. And what we will do first is coach them in how to tell off doctors.

    Nomadic

    look for my newest posts here, so please join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • Corrine, I am moved by the intensity of your story, and I read on your blog about how you were enticed into the mental health system.

    That mental health system is wrong in every imaginable way. Always it is committed to destroying awareness and making people comply. Every time someone discloses personal affairs to that system, they are hurting themselves and others.

    Drugging is wrong. Psychotherapy is wrong. All of it is wrong.

    It is wrong to talk about whether or not drugs are effective because they are measuring that effectiveness in how well people are placated.

    It is wrong to talk about alternative therapies or treatments because these are still aimed at placating people, making them live with injustice.

    It is all SECOND RAPE!

    The only response is legal and political action. And a psychotherapist is never going to help. They are committed to the idea that inaction is morally superior, as the problem lies within the client.

    I read your blog and it looks like you are trying to drive political action. So you and I are on the same side. Whereas I am opposed to all the alternative treatment doctors, because they are still trying to suppress and abuse people.

    So please continue. We have to find out how to organize and then obtain some concrete objectives. Only then will our stories be legitimated. Without this is all amounts to just seeking pity.

    Easier to talk here, so please join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/enticed-into-the-mental-health-system-t345.html

    Nomadic

  • William, you write, “Depression severity was measured via the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D) and participant improvement expectancy was measured with a modified version of the Treatment Credibility and Expectancy Scale.”

    And so this Hamilton Rating Scale is:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Rating_Scale_for_Depression

    “used to rate the severity of their depression by probing mood, feelings of guilt, suicide ideation, insomnia, agitation or retardation, anxiety, weight loss, and somatic symptoms.”

    Why would anyone ever submit to this, with or without drugs?

    Can’t you see that it is completely abusive and immoral to try and measure people this way, or to expect them to comply?

    And how could you ever see lowering people’s anger and distress, as it is always about injustice, as something to be desired?

    Nomadic

  • If we talk about all that is wrong about psych meds and how they make people worse instead of better, does that mean that we have already accepted that they are in need of some kind of fixing, therapy or recovery?

    If so, then I say that such discussions are wrong.

    Saying that psych meds are bad and should be completely eliminated is fine. But saying that they make people worse instead of better?

    First of all, that sounds like debating the merits and demerits of some kind of chemical abuse. We should not be doing that. Instead we should be calling for 100% rejection of psych meds and immediate arrest and criminal prosecution of anyone who gives them to anyone involuntarily.

    We should be picketing out in front of every hospital in the country.


    Hardly any of the ‘symptoms’ of psychological distress may correctly be seen as medical matters. The so-called psychiatric ‘disorders’ are nothing to do with faulty biology, nor indeed are they the outcome of individual moral weakness or other personal failing. They are the creation of the social world in which we live, and that world is structured by power.
    Social power may be defined as the means of obtaining security or advantage, and it will be exercised within any given society in a variety of forms: coercive (force), economic (money power) and ideological (the control of meaning). Power is the dynamic which keeps the social world in motion. It may be used for good or for ill.
    One cannot hope to understand the phenomena of psychological distress, nor begin to think what can be done about them, without an analysis of how power is distributed and exercised within society. Such an understanding is the focus of this web-site.

    http://davidsmail.info/introfra.htm

    If someone is trying to live in a world where their social identity has been voided, they will feel continual distress, because they are always at risk, and always facing persecution. If they are not careful, they will end up on the therapist’s couch or getting chemically abused.

    The remedy for a voided social identity is always political and legal action. And usually this is impossible alone, as it requires comrades.

    So if we talk about whether psychiatric medications make people worse or better, and see that it is always that they are being made worse, then aren’t we still legitimating the psychiatrist’s efforts, but merely repudiating his means?

    Aren’t we still saying that these patients have some kind of a problem and need to be fixed / cured? So then isn’t such talk about psychiatric medications, where they could be legitimated if they actually worked, wrong?

    Shouldn’t we instead be showing that what is being attempted is wrong from the start, besides just critiquing the means?

    Easier to talk here:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/is-it-wrong-to-even-talk-about-psych-meds-t344.html

    Nomadic

  • “Researchers have identified that antidepressants do not perform much better than placebo pills in a randomized controlled trial ”

    Okay, I appreciate that people are trying to stop the use of psychiatric medications. But why does the above even matter? Why is anyone taking psychiatric medications in the first place? To me, those meds should just be flushed down the toilet. No further discussion needed.

    Is it because people are duped? Is it because people use them like they use alcohol and street drugs?

    People feel psychological distress because they live with a compromised social identity, so they are taken advantage of. They live being subject to prejudice and abuse.

    And then so long as they seek Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery as the remedy, they only make the situation worse.

    The real remedy, as it always will be in a civilized society, is in taking legal and political action.

    But the mental health and recovery systems instead try to talk you down and make you believe that the problem lies between your own two ears. So the first step is to reject mental health and recovery approaches.

    Easier to talk here, please join:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/why-does-anyone-use-psych-meds-t343.html

    Nomadic

  • Yes, liberation, or how about emancipation, instead of recovery.

    But it also has to be emancipation not just from psychiatry, but also from psychotherapy and recovery, and also from the authority basis of the Middle-Class Family, the Self-Reliance Ethic.

    Occupy was a good format for protesting. For one thing, it included the homeless, made everyone into something like the homeless.

    But when it comes to Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery, we should offer 100% and total rejection, plus be using every possible means of interdiction.

    So we should not just be pleading for leniency when opposing Murphy, we should be pledging zero cooperation and obstruction using all available means.

    Nomadic

  • Frank, the world is basically social. So yes, our society is filled with people doing unpaid work.

    And in fact, most of them take far less out of our society than the people who are doing paid work. Many of them actually do contribute a great deal.

    People want to do that which will gain them admiration. They only give up on that and start to want to take advantage of others when their efforts are long thwarted.

    The Middle-Class Family is the main institution for teaching the taking advantage of people. I teaches that you can’t do great things, so you just have to get money and try to look good. And the way it teaches this is by example. Children don’t need to be lectured too, as they can see the examples. And most of all, they see that in the Middle-Class Family, people have children in order to make themselves look good.

    And we have a system of permanent structural abuses in the Psychiatric, Psychotherapy, and Recovery System. All based on further abusing the survivors of familial abuses, though almost never do these survivors understand this, because of the Self-Reliance Ethic.

    Nomadic

  • Frank,

    You and I interacted a great deal on the regular forums. I guess I don’t communicate very well, because clearly we are not understanding each other.

    Everyone wants to do well. For one thing, because they want to win the respect of friends and family

    The Self-Reliance Ethic is a Capitalist Over Coding. It is a bogus ethic because it is unnecessary. Everyone wants to be great, so they want to do what will yield that.

    But rather than allow this to be, our society entrusts the Middle-Class Family with instilling the Self-Reliance Ethic. And just as it is with Original-Sin, the Self-Reliance Ethic means making people believe that their own inclinations and drives are wrong, bad.

    So it is a bogus teaching, completely bogus, just like with Original Sin.

    Nomadic

  • Frank, what Oldhead is saying is correct. We are all workers, whether we are getting paid or not.

    Multitude is based on this idea:
    https://www.amazon.com/Multitude-War-Democracy-Age-Empire-ebook/dp/B001QL5MRS/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    Liberalism does not mean spending. In other countries what it means is laissez-faire, it means allowing Capitalism to run rampant.

    In the US what it means is trying to effect change or reform, like ending unjust wars, or remedying the effects of prejudice. And sometimes this does cost money.

    Original Sin is a doctrine which says that you are trying to turn away from God. But it is bogus, because no one would ever want to turn away from God, and even more importantly, no one ever could. The sun shines on everyone. And God would never do any less.

    Likewise, the Self-Reliance Ethic is bogus. It is based on the doctrine of Original Sin, as it is simply an attempt to convince someone that their impulses and inclinations are wrong, and that instead they need to suppress these.

    And so this is how the Middle-Class Family has arisen, in the service of Capitalism. And it’s function is to scar and maim children. And when for some reason it fails, then we have Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, Evangelicals, and Motivationalism, in order to further denigrate and maim those who somehow managed to escaoe the full effect.

    Everyone wants to do well. Telling people to rely on themselves is just an idiotic insult. Just like with Original Sin and Self-Reliance, you are accusing people of a failing in a way which no one ever could.

    As far as the mental health system, and Murphy, I say we must present a strident front:

    1. Total rejection of all Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, Motivationalism, Life Coaching, and Evangelization.

    2. Direct condemnation of the mental health system, specifically showing that is it is just preying on the survivors of childhood abuses, making them feel that they have some kind of a problem, and that they should not fight back.

    3. A core warrior caste which rejects all alcohol, street drugs, tobacco, and is instead committed to fighting back.

    4. Protest in front of hospitals and clinics, and the offices of Suicide and Crisis Telephone Lines ( these tend to be the worst of the worst )

    5. Let people sign “no psychotherapy or psychiatry cards”, and offer immediate legal intervention when ever this is violated, and promise that those clinicians who try to hid their identities will be outted in name and picture.

    6. Lawsuits upon lawsuits, against the mental health system and against abuser parents. Let the survivors have Vindication, instead of Victimhood. This is what is really missing in their lives and this is the key for people being able to have a new chance.

    7. We, the Survivors of the Middle – Class Family, start setting up our own adult communes, to let people have worthwhile work and living opportunities, Bio Political Power, not Bio Power. And start our own Foster Care Group Homes. What exists not is horrid because it is designed to defend the Middle-Class Family. What we set up will be phenomenal, because it will be set up to destroy the Middle-Class Family.

    8. And always make it clear that the draconian parts of the mental health system and of Murphy, will never be enforceable, because we will fight them using all available means.

    We must TOTALLY REJECT ALL FORMS OF SUBJECTIFICATION!

    Nomadic

  • “Yeah, also, the higher divorce rates are prob my favorite thing about modern American culture. To a large degree, our grandmothers stayed because they had to. Economic dependence, cultural backlash, and patriarchal laws. I know countless women of my generation, mothers included, who are far better off because they got to get out.”

    I agree 100%, and no word should ever be removed.

    also:

    https://www.amazon.com/Way-We-Never-Were-Nostalgia-ebook/dp/B001FSJ994/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    and:

    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Social-Family-Radical-Thinkers-ebook/dp/B00MDHRQQO/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1474233589&sr=1-1&keywords=anti-social+family

    Nomadic

  • I certainly would never want to trivialize disability issues, or ignore the environmental harms and other abuses which are causing them.

    But on the other hand, I do think that most of the consequences of having a disability are socially created. Consider for example ADHD, Asperger’s, Autism. As far as I can see, mostly all it is is that your parents or your school teachers do not like you, find you to be an embarrassment, or find you to be a problem. And then there are White Coats who have made disability labeling into a professional specialty.

    So for example, the Autism Self Advocacy Network promotes this idea of “Neurological Difference” and then “Neuro Diversity”.

    I think this is nuts. The only reason that I could ever see for intelligent people going along with that is that they want to make sure they don’t undermine their claim to disability money. So while I do want them to get that money, I still do not go along with their approach at all.

    As far as I can see, the best response to anyone trying to apply a disability label is just to say,

    “So do you wanna make something out of it?”

    Because anything less than that means that you are letting them apply something which is always a stigma, and which there really is not objective basis in either, and serves no constructive purpose whatsoever.

    Now, some have asked me about disability labels like paralyzed or blind. And again, there are some who reject these labels. And then, the issue is so obvious that there is no reason to talk about it. And I feel again that the main consequences of such conditions are entirely socially created.

    1. feeling that the disability implies some sort of moral failing.
    2. unwillingness to provide the required degree of assistance to allow the person to do the things which they can.

    So I feel that the labels are negative and accusatory, and that they should be aggressively rejected.

    And of course no one should ever submit to Psychotherapy, Recovery, or Salvation Seeking, as these are simply ways of further abusing survivors, the quintessential second rape.

    Until we reject such further abuses, we will never be able to organize, and we have to organize or we will never be able to take effective action.

    Nomadic

  • Adverse experiences are not illnesses. But the best response to such is to seek and obtain justice. But this will never happen as long as people are confessing on the couch of their psychotherapist and getting lessons in omega 3 fish oil and how their thoughts control their feelings, and how they can change their thoughts.

    Nomadic

  • Robert, yes the French think about some things differently.

    Though I do not agree with this book, it is still very interesting, and to a point it is quite entertaining:

    https://www.amazon.com/Bringing-Up-B%C3%A9b%C3%A9-Discovers-Parenting-ebook/dp/B00MNNAODK/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    She talks about letting babies learn to connect their sleep cycles together. And what this comes down to is “Le Pause”.

    You can read it for yourself. I feel that by US and UK standards, most French, or at least Parisians, would be diagnosed as Autistic. They just have a certain degree of detachment in how they conduct themselves. I feel that it is even noticeable in their writings.

    But Robert, though I strongly oppose the concept of ADHD, as well as the concept of Autism / Asperger’s, I also strongly object to your article and to the writing of this Marilyn Wedge.

    What you and she are both doing is lionizing The Middle-Class Family, that which is already held up as the norm and the ideal. And this is where the problem starts, because The Middle-Class Family is not only allowed to abuse children, it is expected to. It is just that most people don’t call this abuse, they call it Good Parenting.

    Fortunately some children will somehow escape, or there will be some kind or another of mitigating circumstances.

    If we really cared about children and did not want our whole society to believe that they and everyone else has an innate defect, then we would organize things completely differently, so that the power of parents over children is severely constrained.

    Selling pedagogy manuals and child development books is how The Middle-Class Family started. First it was Rousseau’s Emile, then Moritz Schreber and the Sit Up Straight Machine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moritz_Schreber

    https://www.amazon.com/Soul-Murder-Persecution-Morton-Schatzman/dp/0394481488/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1474064602&sr=1-3&keywords=soul+murder

    In their day these were seen as good, and of course For the Good of the Child.

    But always they serve the parents.

    Some people don’t understand that this would be so, with the new pedagogy manuals which talk about things like empathy, attachment, nurturing, and communications skills.

    But these are all profoundly manipulative. Consider Rousseau.

    http://www.nospank.net/fyog10.htm#needs

    There was a great video interview with this Mayim Bialik. Remember, the Middle-Class has children in order to provide legitimated adult identities for the parents, and at the core of this are the pedagogy manuals and the child development theories.

    But they have taken the video down. But even the title her book, that should be enough to prove my point, that the Middle-Class Family exploits children:

    https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Sling-Real-Life-Confident-Attachment/dp/B00DEKLSHW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1474065559&sr=8-3&keywords=Mayim+Bialik

    Children cannot just be, they have to measure up to Bialik’s standards of public presentation. Otherwise what? Who knows. Most middle-class child abuse involves doctors.

    So if they aren’t being taken to the doctor because they have ADHD, they’ll be getting taken to the doctor because otherwise the parents might be accused of being bad parents because the kids look like they have ADHD. Talking about “parenting”, only makes the problem worse.

    No one can ever stand with children, and still be talking about “parenting”.

    So I am opposed to what you are trying to say in your article.

    Nomadic

  • Frank, everyone wants to do well. The Self-Reliance Ethic is derived from Original Sin. What it means is making people believe that their own drives, desires, and inclinations are wrong. So instead they have to suppress these and submit to the Self-Reliance Ethic. This means serving an outside master system, rather than following their own inclinations.

    So it is because people have been so maimed in the name of the Self-Reliance Ethic, that they end up in Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, Healing, Motivationalism, and Evangelical Churches. They go to these things because they believe that there is something wrong with them, rather than wrong with the world they live in.

    And though the Self-Reliance Ethic is what our society is predicated on, the institution which is entrusted to main children in its name is the Middle-Class Family. This is why we have pedagogy manuals which talk about things like Compassion, Empathy, Attachment, and Communications Skills, to make the maiming of children go more smoothly.

    Einstein’s, Mozart’s, and Elon Musk’s get turned into Homer Simpson’s.

    Welfare is necessary because our social and economic system gives many people nothing. It has always been like this since Capitalism started in the 1600’s.

    Extremely good book explaining this, and explaining why and how welfare is used to regulate the poor, not to provide for the needs of the poor:

    https://www.amazon.com/Regulating-Poor-Functions-Public-Welfare-ebook/dp/B006ZAZ4GE/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    Having the poor being subjected to ritual humiliations is what keeps the rest of the work force in line, and especially in the public sector. And of course it is the Middle-Class Family which prepares people to submit to this kind of control.

    We used to get our poor scapegoats from immigrants and racial minorities who did low wage labor and slave labor. But now in the information age there is much less need for such labor.

    So now we get our scapegoats directly from the Middle-Class Family, and Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Religion all play a critical role in creating these scapegoats.

    I had the distinct privilege of helping to put one such father into our state prison. He was maiming his children. With the girls he was using a tried and proven method, sexual molestation. And with a son he was using the Psychiatric System, getting the boy removed from the home and from school, under the pretext that he had a ~~Brain Chemical Imbalance~~ and that he would need to be on mind destroying drugs for the rest of his life.

    Now I want to strike at more and bigger targets, and I want Comrades. I have zero tolerance for Commiserators, because they are back stabbers. But what this all comes down to is being able to find Comrades, because they will fight shoulder to shoulder with me.

    Nomadic

  • Middle-Class is a reactionary identification system. In the United States, there is no other class. Though there are multiple levels of it, so it might be better so say, Middle-Classes.

    But it is a way of thinking, not a socio-economic level. And though there are no other classes, there are those who act against the interests of the middle-class, and there are those who have been expelled from it.

    Capitalism could never exist unless you had the Middle-Class Family and it was psychically maiming children. No Middle-Class Family, no Capitalism because people would revolt at once.

    General strike, riots, etc. People who have not been maimed by the Middle-Class Family would recognize that the level of poverty which we tolerate, the level of child abuse in privately run schools, the level of economic uncertainty experienced in junk jobs, and the level of abuse in the government licensed Psychiatric and Psychotherpy offices are completely unacceptable, and these things would be eliminated at once.

    One of the things which silences the survivors is simply our inheritance laws. Almost all other industrialized countries prohibit disinheritance of one’s child.

    In the US people deal with the so called “dysfunctional family” with psychiatry, psychotherapy, recovery, and religion. These are all forms of self abuse.

    In British Columbia they deal with it by calling a lawyer.
    http://disinherited.com/dysfunctional-families-shunning/

    Without the Middle-Class Family, having turned children into private property, and being the only social arrangement by which people are deliberately deciding to have children, and psychically maiming children with the Self-Reliance Ethic, Capitalism would never have existed.

    Capitalism required that people be driven off of common lands and forced into the cities to work in factories at starvation wages. Unless you had some guilty until proven innocent type of crime, like Original Sin / Self-Reliance Ethic, then people never would have gone along with this.

    And today, people won’t stand up to the Middle-Class Family, because that would mean that they would be held to be out of compliance with the Self-Reliance Ethic.


    The main psychological mechanism that operates in all child abuse involves using children as what I have termed poison containers – receptacles into which adults project disowned parts of their psyches, so they can control these feelings in another body without danger to themselves. In good parenting, the child uses the caretaker as a poison container, much as it earlier used the mother’s placenta as a poison container for cleansing its polluted blood. A good mother reacts with calming actions to the cries of a baby and helps it “detoxify” its dangerous emotions.

    https://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/the-history-of-child-abuse-lloyd-demause-the-journal-of-psychohistory/

    Oldhead, I value your views and your participation here. I am missing something?

    We need to make a new organization which sues Psychiatrists, Psychotherapists, and Parents. All you really should need to justify going after parents is animosity between parent and child.

    And we should have a group to go after all Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, Motivationalism, and Evangelical Religion. And this group should be mounting a ferocious opposition to Murphy.

    Nomadic

  • People don’t need psychotherapy, recovery, healing, motivationalism, or salvation. What they need is justice. But to get this they need to organize. If you or I try to obtain justice alone, we will just get branded as psychopaths. So we need to organize.

    But it is impossible for people to organize when they believe that they have some problem which resides within themselves.

    All of this is simply a perpetuation of the bogus idea of Original Sin, as it is propagated by the Middle-Class Family as the Self-Reliance Ethic.

    Nomadic

  • It amazes me how much most people feel subordinated to the Self-Reliance Ethic. They feel that they need to prove themselves, and so when this is hard, the are attracted to disability labels.

    Very few people feel that they don’t need to prove themselves or justify their failings. And this all, in my opinion, comes directly from the abuses which the Middle-Class Family is built upon.

    Nomadic

  • “people out there suffering from mental/emotional problems don’t want, need, and deserve help”

    But in saying this you are denying that their anger and distress are over legitimate injustices. This is always the problem with any sort of mental health response, turning people’s feelings and anger back against themselves, and taking the position that people will be angry for no reason. I see no basis for this.

    And then with disability labels, people do vary in all sorts of ways, but we don’t really know what makes them the way they are. All we can do is just learn to accept them. But once you start legitimating these labels, you are diminishing people, and giving legitimacy to those who would abuse them.

    Nomadic

  • About revealing personal thoughts, what outcome do you want?

    1. Do you think the parties you are revealing them to will change on account of what you say?

    2. Are you looking for approval, pity?

    3. Are you looking for psychotherapy, being talked out of your anger?

    4. Do you believe that other’s, on hearing your thoughts, will be strengthened? ( this could be )

    5. Or would you rather take more effective actions and hold these institutional perpetrators accountable? ( usually best to be very careful about personal disclosures. And usually you won’t be able to do anything just by working alone. )

    But, Dave Cope, I do thank you for your article and your courage.

    Nomadic

  • Kjetil Mellingen, This video of yours, what you are putting out is so similar to what the evangelical motivationalist , Joyce Meyer, puts out.

    http://www.joycemeyer.org/

    You are telling people how they should think, telling them what is and what is not a “normal range”.

    Maybe you aren’t passing out psych meds, but you are telling people that they need omega 3 fish oil in order to regulate their thoughts.

    You are telling people that there is such a thing as psychosis, and that the reason for it might be too little fish oil.

    You’re putting out all sorts of feel good stuff, but doing it with a medical gloss. You get people to disclose their affairs to you, but then you obviously trivialize it with your feel good stuff. You are practicing a form of second rape.

    I helped put a man into our state prison, for molesting his daughters.

    But you better believe that this guy and the wife first tried to send the girls to psychotherapy, in order to make their bad memories and their anger go away.

    You assume that people need feel good sermons, and that it is your role to deliver them.

    That is a horrible betrayal of the people who disclose their affairs to you.

    You use a medical pretext to mess with people’s heads. Anyone who discloses any of their private affairs to you is being taken advantage of.

    Nomadic

  • I just think that the evil here is greater than people realize. So I want to strike and expose these clinicians, but when I do it I’ll be wearing a balaclava.

    The mental health system is not going to respond to open honesty, but it will respond when its clinicians are exposed to public censure.

    Nomadic

  • Interesting article there uprising. I still say that we have to reject the entire psychiatric and disability system.

    https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medicalising-Emotional-Competence/dp/0230545262/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1473715702&sr=1-9

    In particular, I don’t go along with the Autism Self-Awareness Network because they are still endorsing this idea of a “neurological difference”. So it is still a way of looking for Original Sin in the child, and they are still committed to exonerating abusive parents and abusive schools.

    I go with Sami Timimi, “Autism does not exist.”

    Is it disability money which induces people to go along with the Psychiatric and Disability Systems? We must find some way out of this trap.

    Nomadic

  • Sera, above you wrote,


    Suggesting that people’s distress must either be rooted in biology or family is a false binary that doesn’t particularly do us all that much good in a world full of complexities.

    But Sera, you must be able to see that I am not saying anything of the sort. Wow, I really must be bad at communicating.

    I am not making the elimination of distress, or of distressed or angry people into any kind of an issue or goal. To do so would be to do what the Mental / Moral Health System does, and what Representative Murphy and the Drug Manufactures do.

    I want to see people organize and start to fight back. When people are distressed and angry, and when they are not being drugged or listening to their therapist or their Recovery Group Leader, they might just be willing to organize and start standing up for themselves.

    The objection I have with your entire position about these matters is that you are legitimating the Mental Health System, you are saying that the remedy to social injustice is, Therapy and Recovery, and I guess in community treatment centers.

    I am saying, NO WAY!

    The remedy to injustice is to organize and start fighting back.

    Even Peter Breggin said in “Beyond Conflict” that underneath the behaviors we call mental illness, there is conflict. I feel that this should be obvious.

    Well the resolution to that conflict is not Community Treatment Centers, any more than it is Psychotherapy or Recovery. The solution to conflict is to fight back and win. And when it gets into these areas, you almost never can do this alone. If you try to fight back alone, you get branded as a psychopath. Our legal system is set up to make it hard to fight back.

    So we need to organize. But the goal of Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Religion are to continue the abuses of the middle-class family, and make people believe that they have an innate moral defect. The traditional name for this doctrine is Original Sin. So when people believe in this, they cannot organize or fight back.

    You seem to think I am saying that familial abuses cause mental illness. I am saying nothing of the sort. I am saying that the middle-class family is intended to do extreme harm. And as such it makes people believe that they need to be in Recovery and Therapy. And very few people are willing to challenge this because it means challenging the Self-Reliance Ethic.

    I know you don’t like the fact that I continue to oppose the message you are putting out. But I have to tell you, no one I care about would ever be abandoned to one of your Recovery or Community Treatment Programs. And the people who are in those programs must be getting pumped full on non-sense on a daily basis, otherwise they would see that they are being abused.

    Nomadic


  • Masson sets out to show that “abuse of one form or another is built into the very fabric of psychotherapy”, that “it is the nature of therapy to distort another person’s reality” and that since it is the therapist’s task to change people, and that this can only be done according to the therapists’ own notions and prejudices, the psychological process is necessarily corrupt.

    https://www.amazon.com/Against-Therapy-Emotional-Tyranny-Psychological-ebook/dp/1567510221/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473705691&sr=8-1&keywords=jeffrey+masson+against+therapy

    I always say, when considering therapy, ask your potential therapist, “How much civil damage money have your obtained on behalf of your clients? How many perpetrators have you put in prison? Is there anything you have done other than taking advantage of your clients woundedness and naivety in being willing to confess to you on your couch?”

    Psychotherapy and Recovery are just a continuation of the abuses started in the middle-class family.

    Before people can organize and start obtaining legal redress, they are first going to have to publicly reject Therapy and Recovery. These things are always Second Rape.

    Nomadic

  • I agree that clinicians should not be shielded. On the contrary, they must be fully exposed, and I am all for actions to do this.

    I am just suggesting that maybe you don’t know the full nature of the evil you are dealing with, and just how dependent our society is on this idea of who is legitimate and who is not. And so the ways to stand up against the mental health system, in my opinion, have to be more extreme and covert. Your courage in the things you have said is to be commended. But I still think you may have exposed yourself to more delegitimacy than the benefits warrant.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/

  • Liat, you’re still legitimating the psychiatric system. The “real alternative” to the psychiatric system is not anything like psychotherapy, recovery or alternative treatments. The real alternative is simply the middle finger.

    This psychiatric system only continues to operate because somehow people are letting it have power.

    People are made vulnerable to ending up in the psychiatric system because of the abuses of the middle-class family. And mostly this mental / moral health system only operates because people are afraid to challenge the ways the middle-class family perpetrates abuse.

    I feel that this is self-evident, but I would be happy to discuss it further.

    As far as the psychiatric system, what I call for is zero cooperation whatsoever, and opposing it in by any and all available means.

    Nomadic

  • The guy who has got it right here is Steve M.

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/09/globe-taste-medicine/#comment-94306

    I quote here from Steve, “I recall my brief stint as a public school teacher. I went in naively believing that the school system was there to educate students and prepare them for adulthood, and that the failures of the system were due to lack of insight or skills. What I discovered is that the school system appeared to be geared less to educate and enlighten than to cow and demoralize students into automatic compliance, either out of fear or desire for conditional reward. It is designed to create compliant citizens, not to teach people to think, and it’s not broken – it works quite well at doing exactly that. ”

    I consider this to be one of the best posts on this entire forum.

    Well this is how it is with the middle-class family. It is designed to harm children, to make them into what our society expects. So when a child is harmed it is not an aberration, it is exactly what is intended.

    Most of all it revolves around the Self-Reliance Ethic, which is a kind of guilty until innocent type of crime, like Original Sin.

    So when a child somehow escapes the full intended effect, we have Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery to complete the job of inflicting the harm that the family failed to complete.

    And Recovery in particular is based on the Self-Reliance Ethic, measuring up to social expectations. People go along with the concept because it shows that they are complying with what their parents expect.

    Rick Warren of Irvine California, who founded the Saddle Back Church and was able to get it above 20k members in just 20 years, talks non-stop about how, “Everybody needs Recovery.”

    Warren graduated from a Baptist Seminary. Recovery IS the new Original Sin.

    And so one of the most offensive aspects of this Murphy Bill is that it is presented as being to “help families”. This means helping families to complete the abuse they attempted to inflict, but for some reason were unable to complete.

    So Murphy is intended to make the mental health system, something which should not even exist, into the new Fix My Kid Camp.

    With inheritance laws the way they are, with the Recovery Movement and the Self-Reliance Ethic, very few people are willing to stand up to the concepts which justify the middle-class family.

    So instead they just keep wearing holes in the knees of new pairs of pants, venerating the Holy Family.

    Nomadic

  • I quote Steve from above, “I recall my brief stint as a public school teacher. I went in naively believing that the school system was there to educate students and prepare them for adulthood, and that the failures of the system were due to lack of insight or skills. What I discovered is that the school system appeared to be geared less to educate and enlighten than to cow and demoralize students into automatic compliance, either out of fear or desire for conditional reward. It is designed to create compliant citizens, not to teach people to think, and it’s not broken – it works quite well at doing exactly that. ”

    I consider this to be one of the best posts on this entire forum.

    Well this is how it is with the middle-class family. It is designed to harm children, to make them into what our society expects. So when a child is harmed it is not an aberration, it is exactly what is intended.

    Most of all it revolves around the Self-Reliance Ethic, which is a kind of guilty until innocent type of crime, like Original Sin.

    So when a family has a child, but some how the child escapes the full intended effect, we have Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery to complete the job of inflicting harm that the family failed to complete.

    And Recovery in particular is based on the Self-Reliance Ethic, measuring up to social expectations.

    Rick Warren of Irvine California, who founded the Saddle Back Church and was able to get it above 20k members in just 20 years, talks non-stop about how, “Everybody needs Recovery.”

    Warren graduated from a Baptist Seminary. Recovery IS the new original sin.

    And so one of the most offensive aspects of this Murphy Bill is that it is presented as being to “help families”. This means helping families to complete the abuse they attempted to inflict, but for some reason were unable to complete.

    So he is making the mental health system, something which should not even exist, into the new Fix My Kid Camp.

    “Don’t worry Representative Murphy, we are not violent or dangerous, and we won’t be no matter how much we are abused. You just say the word and we will walk dutifully into the ovens. We aren’t rebellious, because we know all authority comes from God, and that it is the duty of adults to have children and then crush them. Maybe some of us resisted before, but now we have had enough Therapy and Recovery, that we won’t resist anymore. Sir, you can trust us, we won’t disappoint you.”

    Nomadic

  • Yes, this casual attitude toward drugs, prescription, but maybe street too, is distressing. People need to feel their painful feelings, otherwise they don’t grow.

    The doctors passing out stuff like this, should be put out of business.

    Nomadic

  • Good letter. But, I for one say that it is imperative to maintain a strict privacy wall and never discuss anything like suicidal thoughts or a mental health history, as that only places you, and abuse survivor, at further risk.

    The mental health system, and its military arm, have to be fought in other ways.

    Nomadic

  • Julie you wrote, “Please realize that not all of us grew up the way you did. ”

    You say that, but you do not know anything about me.

    What I will tell you is that no one I care about would be sent to any type of a Recovery or Fixing Farm, any more than they would to Psychotherapy or Psychiatry.

    Yes, some types of eating are unhealthy and even life threatening. And so everyone will seeming want to see that change. But particularly between parents and child, things are not always as they seem.

    And even for an adult, there is something going on when someone is sent to such a farm, and it involves their parents.

    I have had some luck in trying to talk sense into people in the Pentecostal Ministry Teen Challenge. Now I was relieved when I learned that it mostly does not any more deal with juveniles. But it is still based on the premise of moral defect.

    So I talked with one man, maybe in his late 20’s, who had been for his second time in the State Prison for heroin use. His parents came up with the idea of Teen Challenge, and he was in.

    I explained to him that this is just preying on victims and we talked at length and he understood. And he said that what he really wanted was a job.

    I commended him for this. And I have had some luck with other Teen Challenge people.

    I find it extremely annoying and disheartening when people actually seem to believe that just for no reason at all that they ended up in the Mental / Moral Health System, and cannot see that that had to have come from The Family. And even more disheartening when there are Psychotherapists who are advertising a parental exoneration agenda, and when there are those making a political cause out of thwarting child protection efforts.

    Nomadic

  • Steve, yes, you’ve made an excellent and most insightful post.

    And I don’t understand how Sera can keep writing to the Boston Globe, basically asking for recovery and therapy, instead of more draconian measures, when what we should be doing is rejecting all aspects of the Mental / Moral Health System, and doing so forcefully.

    Steve wrote, of our school system and its intended purpose, “cow and demoralize students into automatic compliance, either out of fear or desire for conditional reward. It is designed to create compliant citizens, not to teach people to think, and it’s not broken – it works quite well at doing exactly that.”

    Well this is basically my own insight about the Middle-Class Family. It only arose in the first place because it was allowed to exploit children, and it still runs at the expense of children. So I have never gone along with the idea of a Dysfunctional Family.

    All I can say is that things do not have to be this way, not at all. But they will stay this way and get worse if we continue to follow an Uncle Tom approach, as Sera is advocating regarding Murphy.

    Nomadic

  • Lu, your complaint only makes sense if you believe that there is such a thing as mental illness, and that the mental health system is the way to respond to it.

    If what you want is disability money, or citizenship pay, or a homeless shelter, that I can understand. But I do not go along with the concept of mental illness, treatment for mental illness, or recovery or therapy. I say that we must always reject these.

    Nomadic

  • Sera,

    Certainly no one I care about would ever be in Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, on Psychiatric Medications, or in any kind of Recovery Program.

    But then that observation reveals how this works. People end up in the Mental/Moral Health System because they have been scapegoated and abandoned by the family.

    Isn’t that obvious? Why else would someone believe that they have something wrong with them?

    I don’t like to call it abuse, because that makes if seem aberrational. So I call it exploitation. The Middle-Class Family never would have arisen unless it were being allowed to exploit children.

    And so very often this ends up with there being a scapegoat, and that scapegoat being in the Mental/Moral Health System.

    I’ve discussed this with other MIA posters, and some take exception to this idea. But then when I read what they post, they show that it is nonetheless true.

    So no, I don’t think people’s distress is rooted in biology. So that part of your binary is gone.

    But in the positions you are taking, ostensively in opposing this Murphy Bill, you are putting out there the idea that some people still must have some sort of a defect. And so this is always going to be seen as either biological or moral. So you are siding with the families which have exploited them. Its just that you are asking for pity, and asking people to be pitiful.

    While I do understand that this is a difficult problem for anyone to get their arms around. I was lucky enough to be once given a chance. Via some contact with a Pentecostal Church I came to see how most all of them have scapegoat children. And this amounts to the same population segment you are claiming to speak for, those in the Mental/Moral Health System, wanting Recovery and Therapy.

    This guy was going on and on about all that was wrong with his daughter.

    Well, being someone who stands with Alice Miller and hence stands with the child, I knew that I could not ignore this. So I got involved in his case, and my involvement expanded much beyond what I had expected. But now that guy is serving a very long sentence in our State Prison for sexually molesting his daughters.

    So while I know that this was a rare opportunity to act which fell upon me, I did make it clear to the DA and the Court that that church must be saturated with familial child abuse. You can find it just by listening to the scapegoating.

    So if we look closer at what is landing people in the Mental/Moral Health System, I say that it has to be familial scapegoating and abandonment.

    No one I care about would be in such a state. And no one I care about would be following your lead in asking for pity in the form of therapy and recovery.

    If instead people start rejecting therapy and recovery, the new ground which should first be explored is civil suits for familial child abuse.

    And so going that way, gives a stronger position form which to oppose Murphy, as it is only about further abusing the survivors of abuse. And that is not just unkind, harsh, or intolerant, it is absolutely wrong.

    And so I take strong exception Sera to your perspective on this, as I feel that you are legitimating Murphy, because its more draconian components will of course only apply to what they view as the more extreme cases. But of the basic idea that some people need some sort of therapy or recovery, instead of redress for injustices, you are helping the Murphy supporters. It is always like this when people take Uncle Tom approaches.

    Sera, let me ask you, would someone you care about be in:

    1. Psychotherapy?

    2. Psychiatry?

    3. On Psychiatric Medication?

    4. Autism/Asperger’s aversives program like at Rottenberg or the verbal only version at Koegel at University of California

    5. Autism/Asperger’s Applied Behavioral Analysis?

    6. 12 Step Recovery Program?

    7. Troubled Teen Industry Camp?

    8. Adult version of above like Teen Challenge or Evangelical Ministry?

    9. Recovery Residential Program with no focus on legal redress?

    Again, no one I care about could ever be in any of the above.

    Nomadic

  • Sera, I still feel that all of your articles still legitimate the need for some type of mental health system. You just want it to be mitigated a bit.

    But the Murphy backers will just say that it’s changes only apply to the extreme cases, so you needn’t worry.

    While I do understand that you are doing your best, handling this in the only way you know, I still cannot go along with your message.

    There has to be instead a no exceptions rejection of the mental health system, combined with a demand for justice on behalf of the abused, instead of pleas for pity in the forms of Therapy and Recovery.

    And specifically where there are coercive components, there must be a pledge that these will be made unenforceable.

    Nomadic

  • That’s great, getting away from the mental health system. But watch out because Psychotherapy, the Recovery Movement, and Religion are also traps. Far too often people see these as the remedy for Psychiatry and drugs. They aren’t, they are just more abuse and victimization.

    Thing are not going to change until we who have survived the mental health system and have survived the middle-class family start organizing and acting to obtain justice. Otherwise it is all still just more denial and self abuse.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • No, mental health is not a social justice issue, because there is no such thing as mental illness.

    And talking about parenting issues, even be they things like compassion, only helps legitimate parents abusing their children. Whatever kind of pedagogy or child development theory is put forth, it serves the parents, legitimates them, and always at the expense of the child.

    What is a social justice issue is protection from familial child abuse, and legal redress when it happens. And here we are still sorely lacking. And so we find countless numbers of people being convinced that they have psychiatric, psychological, behavioral, developmental, and other, kinds of defects. Most people are not well prepared to be able to defend themselves against this.

    These kinds of abuses will not stop until the parents and the doctors and therapists are publicly held accountable, instead of the child abuse survivors being send to therapy, recovery, and religion.

    Nomadic

  • Sorry Sera, I still do not agree. I don’t go along with the way the Boston Globe is depicting the situation. And I am opposed to the Murphy Bill or to anything else like it. But I also don’t agree with the message you are putting out. And I don’t think it is an effective counter to the Boston Globe or the Murphy Bill.

    Having safe places for people to go who have suffered nervous breakdowns, or who just find themselves unable to function, is good. We should have these.

    But to present these as the alternative to psychiatric care is just wrong, because that psychiatric care should not exist in the first place, and so there is no reason to be offering any alternatives to it. What you are doing is still basically asking for pity, instead of demanding justice.

    People who have been treated with dignity and respect are very unlikely to show so called psychiatric symptoms, or to get involved with alcohol or street drugs, or to do anything else which will be used to tar them. Everyone want to do well, to develop their abilities and apply them to social good. People want to do well. They want to win the admiration of friends and family.

    So campaigning against psychiatric drugs and forced treatment is fine. But there also needs to be justice, accountability. The parents who are abusing their children in the first place have to be exposed and held accountable. People do not just end up in psychiatric care for no reason.

    The Boston Globe is presenting these families as helpless victims. But in the vast majority of these cases, they are serious child abusers. And until this is exposed and understood, so that people can recognize it, you and others like you are just asking us to live by pleading for pity.

    I cannot condone this.

    Nomadic

  • Julie, sorry, but I’m simply reading what you post,


    My poor parents thought the place was The Answer. The Great Summer Camp for mental cases that would save the day.

    So what you are saying is that your parents had already decided that you had some sort of a defect, a disorder. Family life revolved around this concept.

    Now you being a minor, it makes no difference if they and their doctors had convinced you of this. All that matters is that they thought that there was something wrong with you.

    Sometimes it is purely moral, other times it is medical, other times it is psychiatric, and there are other forms too. But it still comes down to making the child a scapegoat, and seeking to fix them or have them fixed.

    This is absolutely abusive, whether the child sees it as so or not.

    People are seeking federal regulations on these troubled teen programs. Some of us want to put an end to psychiatric medications, and some of us want to put an end to parents having the ability to use doctors to convince their child that there is something wrong with them, at least with out court oversight to protect the child, and the child having a lawyer.

    When you see a child who is obviously under the impression that they have a defect, and is having trouble with ED or anything else, there is reason to suspect at a minimum psychological child abuse. This is why we have mandatory reporting laws.

    The doctors on the public payroll tend to comply with this, as the public would have zero tolerance for their becoming complicit in child abuse. But the doctors who market their services to parents, along with these Fix My Kid Camps, obviously don’t want to report.

    The last guy who came to me with this huge story about all that was wrong with his eldest daughter, I helped get a long sentence in the state prison for sexually molesting her and his other two girls. The wife was behind him at every juncture. And they also abused their eldest son by getting him removed from the home and convinced that he has a psychiatric condition and would need to be on drugs his whole life. And with the younger boy they abused him by having him vouch for the parents when the father was on trial for sexually molesting the girls. This boy was presenting the view of the parents that the problem lie with the eldest girl.

    It will be a long time before this father gets out of prison. We have excellent police and prosecutors. But mostly it was the tenacity and courage of this eldest daughter that did it.

    And on the ground I never stop talking about the role this guy’s church played.

    If a child is having problems, very likely that it is coming right from the parents and their view of the child. And the way to handle this is not Therapy, Recovery, or Religion, for the child. It is intervention, lawsuits and criminal prosecution for the parents.

    Nomadic

  • Thank you Julie for sharing that. There are some now who are calling for federal regulation of the Troubled Teen Industry. Some are also grouping this issue with Medical Munchausen’s By Proxy.

    I’m sure you know about this, and the outstanding movie made out of it:

    https://www.amazon.com/Bless-Beasts-Children-Glendon-Swarthout/dp/1476766797/ref=sr_1_2/165-3357530-2659747?ie=UTF8&qid=1472582025&sr=8-2&keywords=Bless+The+Beasts+And+The+Children

    I also got involved in investigating one such program some years back.

    The way I look at it is simply that it is all child abuse. You could say that it is something like Munchausen’s By Proxy, in that the idea is to find fault in the child, to break the child. It is based on the idea that the child has some innate fault.

    It is explained well here:
    https://www.amazon.com/Childism-Confronting-Prejudice-Against-Children/dp/0300192401

    Prejudice against children is something very similar to racial prejudice. It is based on the fear that if something is not done, this other will multiply and take over, and they have some sort of an innate defect.

    So you have parents committed to the idea that they have to break their children, make them believe that their desires and ambitions are wrong. Prevent them from being open and free, and make them so that they are warped and creepy, like their parents.

    Of course one writer who continues to do an outstanding job of characterizing this is Stephen King. And ever since Carrie, he has been getting help from his wife Tabitha. You can see her influence in his stuff, like in for example, Gerald’s Game.

    https://www.amazon.com/Geralds-Game-Stephen-King/dp/1501144200/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1472582453&sr=1-1&keywords=stephen+king+geralds+game

    It shows how a woman’s entire life and world view are completely determined by some familial sexual exploitation and the need to conceal it and to make the parents right.

    But really all child abuse is based on the conviction that it is the duty of a parent to break their child. This way the parent does not have to face the pains of what was done to them, as they have become the aggressor, and they feel legitimated.

    And so as this abuse starts in childhood, it continues in adulthood in the form of Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery and Healing. All of these Second Rapists get the victim to confess their innermost feelings and issues, based on the lie that the therapist and the program are your ally. But they are nothing of the sort. They are not going to do anything whatsoever to help you obtain redress against injustice, and a socially legitimated biography. No, they are just going to show you how the new pedagogy manuals are so much more slickly written. And they are going to do their best to convince you to just self-lobotomize and forget all that happened.

    And then when they get people to make histrionic displays, punching pillows and screaming at them, all that does is further convince the client of their own impotence.

    Even what is comparatively speaking a very small amount of child abuse is a very serious matter. So I say, strip the parents of all their cash and assets. Strip them down to just the clothes on their backs. They aren’t ever going to admit that they are wrong, they will just continue to brag about abusing their child, because they get lots of pats on the back over this.

    So take everything away from them. Then force our government to stop licensing psychotherapists, because this does not protect anyone, it just legitimates it. And then for the doctors who put kids on psychiatric medications, International Court, Crimes Against Humanity. This way they can’t try to invoke the Eichmann defense and say that what they were doing was lawful.

    The Pentecostal Daughter Molester that I helped get a lengthy sentence, he had never admitted that he did anything wrong. And his whole church still believes this. Most all of them have problem children, designated scapegoats.

    So you can’t try to just re-educate these people. Force has to be used against them, police, handcuffs, prisons. They are having children in order to abuse them. You can’t stop them before the fact, but we must deal with them after the fact.

    Those of us who have survived the middle-class family, something which has always operated at the expense of children, must organize and act. Most of us have been afraid to do this, because we have been convinced that we have an innate defect, and because it all comes down to the Self-Reliance Ethic, an adaptation of the concept of Original Sin. So we have allowed ourselves to be further abused in psychotherapy and recovery. Now we must organize and act, to bring about justice. Only then will we have a legitimated public identity so that we might finally be able to develop and apply our abilities and enjoy what life can offer.

    Nomadic

  • Claudia Gold, Yes there is truth in what you say, but I still do not agree with what you are doing. Yes, you cannot separate nature and nurture, or biology and environment, and yes DMS and drugs are bad. But you also cannot try to prescribe a hygienic environment. Child development specialists are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    There always needs to be a ready capacity to intervene in families, otherwise children are sacrificial victims. Sometimes this intervention can be moderate, and other times no, it must be extreme and it needs to be followed up with punitive actions against parents.

    Doctors can be fired. But punishing parents in the civil courts is rare. And so much of what effects children is well described as Munchausen’s by Proxy, scapegoating.

    Middle-class parents use pedagogy manuals, and they use child development theory, to make themselves right. And the thing which makes the middle-class different is that they have children deliberately, in order to gain for themselves prestige and power. And this is why we have pedagogy manuals and child development specialists. They serve the needs of the parents.

    Until we start holding these parents, and all the doctors who help them, accountable, it will still just be more child abuse.

    Nomadic

  • lily.c,

    Thank you for pointing out these issues. If we are not careful, we who have survived abuses will always be cast into pity seeking modes.

    And I am not saying that sex workers are abuse survivors. What I mean, is this stuff blows back onto all of us.

    We must reject Psychotherapy, along with Recovery, and Salvation Seeking.

    And we should not be opposing this Murphy Bill by pity seeking.

    Nomadic

  • Yes, it is Munchausen’s By Proxy. Some is parents using doctors, duping them. But other times, it is types of doctors who market themselves too the parents. Some put kids on drugs, others take kids off drugs. Drugs are bad. But making a child believe that they need therapy or recovery, are also bad. And those who market themselves to parents are almost certainly violating mandatory reporting. And they may be engaging in child endangerment and child abuse as well.

    Nomadic

  • Thank you Fred for the info. Such things are possible, as I am having dental problems, but I think it is more of the periodontal type, “cavitations gum area “, and just general tooth decay, but not mercury amalgam linked. I need to take better care of myself. I have found that gum massaging does do a great deal to eliminate cavitations. It really does work.

    But also in the week since I posted the above I have decided that what is causing me to lose balance and have a hard time walking, is not related to ear issues, or anything dental or facial.

    My left leg was getting numb, then my right leg also started to as did my entire body. It is some sort of flu like thing. It was exacerbated just by not getting enough sleep and getting run down. The numbness has retreated mostly to below the waste now. And my over all ability to balance and walk is about 2/3 restored. I just need to sleep and talk it easy, and take care of some dental issues.

    But those of us who have survived the middle-class family have still not started standing up for ourselves. We are still being lectured to about psychotherapy and recovery. All that is is a continuation of childhood abuses.

    And those opposed to the Murphy Bill are still taking a pity seeking approach. We must reject all therapy and recovery, otherwise we are just letting ourselves be abused. Instead we must go after perpetrators, the parents, psychiatrists, and psychotherapists.

    And we cannot let things like ADHD, Aspergers, Autism, Bipolar, or anything else be used to stigmatize us. Anytime one of us accepts something like that, we are exonerating perpetrators and denying ourselves social legitimacy, while guaranteeing that the children of today will be abused as we were.

    Nomadic

  • Oldhead, thank you for responding to me. I’d not been seeing posts from you, and so you were missed. And no I did not know you were developing non-“mental health” oriented points, or about any organizing forum. Please tell me more. I would very much like to be involved in this.

    Quickest and most reliable way to reach me:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/

    Here I have several replies to this Beatrice Birch and Inner Fire Healing and Recovery.

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/08/inner-fire-healing-and-recovery-without-meds/

    I my last reply I make it clear that I would never let anyone subject me to “Healing and Recovery”. And I would never let anyone I cared about be subjected to it either. Even though I know there are some with personal stories which would seem not to support this, looking at all the evidence myself, I cannot see how anyone would ever end up in Psychiatric care, Psychotherapy, or Healing and Recovery, unless they were already made the family scapegoat and abandoned.

    Or even more, what the parents really want is for the child to commit suicide, as that would give them their final vindication. Like Daniel Mackler has said, “Suicide is the Ultimate Victory for the Family System.”

    So I see their Healing and Recovery Programs as simply a continuing familial child abuse.

    And then there are the Psychotherapists who advertise to parents, that they will fix their scapegoat and do it by exonerating the parents in the eyes of the child. That is really creepy.

    So yes, I want to be involved in developing of non-‘mental health’ points for discouraging the passage of Murphy, and for resisting it if it does pass, and also for finally letting the public know the truth.

    My first hand involvement does not go back this far. But based on what I have read about R. D. Laing and his clinic in London, he was not trying to do what the Recovery and Therapy people of today are. He was not trying to fix people, to make them “passible acceptable to most people most of the time.” He may have called it therapy or recovery, but it did not mean the same thing. So while Laing was certainly no revolutionary, he was willing to just let people be. There was no goal in his caring for them. They would find their own way, and he was certain that it could not be approached in any other manner.

    Now the situation is completely different. There is a very thinly veiled Salvation agenda under all of these Therapy and Recovery programs. The idea is to exonerate and vindicate the parents.

    See, a therapist will try to make you believe that the pain is all in the memories of the abuse. But this is a severe mind manipulation. The pain is in not having social legitimacy in the present because our world is based on lies and denial. Those who should be speaking up, are in Therapy and Recovery, believing that that actually redresses wrong and solves problems.

    It doesn’t. They way to redress wrongs and give ourselves social legitimacy, and also to protect today’s children, is to organize and take legal and political action.

    Thanks,
    Nomadic

  • Beatrice,

    I can tell you that you would never get the chance to tell me to “move on with life”.

    But this goes without saying.

    More important, you would never get the chance to tell anyone I care about to “move on with life”, or any other sort of Recovery stuff. But this exposes what this is really all about.

    No one ends up in Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, or Recovery, unless they have already been condemned and abandoned by The Family. So it would be impossible for anyone I care about to ever end up exposed to your doctrines. What you are doing is just a continuation of the what started as middle-class family child abuse.

    Nomadic

  • Jen, thank you for sharing your story with us.

    I feel that we all must reject all aspects of the mental health system, and even the concept of mental health. We must also reject any and all forms of psychotherapy, recovery, or rehabilitation.

    It is all based on the premise of innate moral defect, as derived from the religious doctrine of original sin.

    And even after reading people’s stories and discussing them, it really is hard to see how anyone could ever end up in the mental health system, or in therapy or recovery, unless it were simply a continuation of childhood familial abuses.

    Our society needs scapegoats, to hold up for public humiliations, in order to maintain discipline in the lower end of the workforce. It used to get these in the immigrants and racial minorities who did low wage labor and slave labor.

    But now in the information age, there is much less need for any type of labor. So using things like substance addiction, developmental disabilities, and mental health, and psychotherapy and recovery, it gets these scapegoats from the middle-class family itself.

    So we must never go along with this, never go along with pity seeking approaches, and especially when faced with something like this Murphy Bill. When we seek pity in therapy and recovery, we are aiding those who advance Social Darwinism and Eugenics.

    We must instead organize and act aggressively to bring abusers to justice, including parents and all types of doctors. No one who has abused their child should ever be allowed to hold on to money or assets. No doctor who markets to parents to help them “fix” their child, should be running around not in custody.

    If we who have survived the middle-class family and its doctors are not willing to act, then we are helping those who promote the bogus sciences of Social Darwinism and Eugenics, as well as guaranteeing that today’s children will be used in the same ways that we were.

    Nomadic

  • Thank you Beatrice for responding to me.


    Seekers have been to other ‘rehabs’ and many say they feel safe here for the first time. There is no blame but rather opportunities to discover one’s own strengths, despite the traumas, and move on with life.

    But here right off I have to take strong exception to you. Telling people to move on with life. Nothing could be more disrespectful of their experiences. I don’t see how your rehab is different from any other, telling people that the root problem is themselves, being unwilling to move on, and doing nothing to even attempt to obtain redress.


    We can’t change the past but rather, by working in the present, where the past is reflected, we can still grow and move forward.

    And so again, you are telling people that they, not their abusers and our unjust world, are the problem. I again have to emphasis the strong exception I take to you and your program.


    slowly and carefully tapers off their mind altering drugs with the support of a psychiatrist…

    Rather than just flushing the drugs down a toilet while authorizing an attorney to sue that Psychiatrist for everything he has got? And rather than getting the Psychiatrists who give drugs to children convicted of Crimes Against Humanity in International Court?


    the soul/spiritual dimension of each of us can be strengthened through the therapeutic and work program. I have witnessed too often, that tapering off, for example, crack or mind altering drugs is not healing in itself, but the building up on a deeper soul/spiritual level is also necessary…otherwise one is left with the raw pain for why one went on all this in the first place.

    But where do people come to understand that they have nothing wrong with them, do not need any healing or recovery, but simply they are the survivors of familial abuse, and that the way to change this is legal and political activism. Otherwise they will still always believe that they suffer from Original Sin, and they will still be abusing others with ideas like healing, recovery, and therapy.


    There are other wonderful people doing amazing work on the larger political scale…and meanwhile, I and others want to support those whose lives and being compromised by offering them a choice.

    You are offering them absolutely nothing except more self-abuse, lies, and denial. While I would never want to turn people out onto the street, I strongly disagree with you and your program. And I would hope that people stop putting up with it.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • This Tim Murphy, from a district in the Southwest of Pennsylvania, excluding Pittsburg, and bordered on two sides by WV. They say that in WV they consume huge amounts of prescription pain killers. Some are calling them “Pillbillies”. I believe that Murphy’s district is likely much the same.

    But I have a greater concern. From my view, those opposing the Murphy Bill are taking a pity seeking, or Uncle Tom approach. They are accepting the concept of mental illness, and especially the ideas of Recovery and Therapy.

    So then this does absolutely nothing to oppose Murphy, as its supporters will simply point out that it really only effects the more severe cases, so we needn’t worry.

    The opponents of Murphy are legitimating the main axes of abuse, therapy and recovery, instead of demanding justice. And we know that what underlies Murphy and the Psychiatric System are simply the bogus sciences of Social Darwinism and Eugenics.

    So if we oppose Murphy by endorsing Psychotherapy and Recovery, we are just helping those who need scapegoats to justify extreme economic deprivation and extreme coercive conformity. It sounds like we are just asking for leniency, “Let us have our therapy and recovery, please.”

    Where as what we should be doing is showing how most all of this is simply the ramifications of familial child abuse and social stigmatization, and then denouncing all psychiatry, psychotherapy, and recovery, and pledging that the more draconian parts of Murphy will be unenforceable.

    Here from one of your quotes:


    recovery and community integration practices that current consumers of mental health services and survivors of coercive psychiatric interventions have worked so hard for over the last 40-plus years to create for those most in need.

    I say that we must completely disavow any mental health or recovery services consumer status.

    Nomadic

  • Adults with money have always been able to get excessive stuff from doctors. Unless these drugs are re-classified as something like heroin, this is not going to change.

    When it comes to giving these drugs to children, that should be prosecuted as Crimes Against Humanity, and in International Court.

    “Crimes against humanity are certain acts that are deliberately committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population or an identifiable part of a population. ”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity

    And then anytime a child is sent to a Psychiatrist or a Psychotherapist, there should be court oversight and the child should have an appointed attorney. Otherwise these doctors are just hired co-abusers.

    Nomadic

  • These drugs already have the requirement of a doctor’s prescription. This is supposed to be a stronger protection than a signed informed consent.

    So if we need the informed consent, then there is not only something wrong with the drugs, there is something wrong with the doctors.

    The drugs should be off the market, and doctors severely disciplined. Giving them to children should be prosecuted as Crimes Against Humanity, and in International Court.

    Nomadic

  • “So true, but the problem is that psychiatrists believe that when medical evidence of child abuse is handed over to a concerned mother, that the appropriate next course of action is to tranquilize the child, rather than reporting the child abuse to the proper authorities, as is required by law, technically. ”

    So very very true!

    But it is not just Psychiatrists, it is also Psychotherapists who fail to understand that mandatory reporting laws also apply to them. The ones who work in the public sector, as I know, do a decent job of complying with mandatory reporting, and not becoming accomplice abusers.

    But middle-class child abuse usually seems to involve doctors. And one of the main ways that the middle-class family defines itself is by its insularity and by its children being private property. So it hires its own doctors, doctors who do its bidding. So you have doctors who will put the child on drugs. And you will have doctors who will take the child off drugs, and who will market themselves to the parents, as someone who will get the child to accept the premise that it is lucky to have such loving parents. This is really creepy.

    So Psychiatry and Psychotherapy are both Second Rape, because the client is being told that they and their unwillingness to submit to reality are the problem, not that there is anything which should be done about the unjust world that they live in. They might not say that the abuse and sexual abuse are imagined anymore, but they will say that it is morally superior not to try and do anything about it. And so it continues.

    And then for the child this is all involuntary. No one is looking out for the interests and safety of the child. And the doctors are hired by the parents and they have their own interests, and they don’t seem to understand that what they are doing is exactly why we have mandatory reporting laws.

    And as long as we the survivors remain passive, going with the pity seeking ideas of therapy and recovery, then we continue to aid those who use Social Darwinism and Eugenics to argue that we deserve nothing better.

    Nomadic

  • Right now I’ve been having trouble balancing, on my left side. Don’t know what is going on. I look for other symptoms to explain it. Some dental issues, might cause it. Some swelling around my left eye, eye glass problems could cause problem. But still not sure. Now today I also feel left side facial swelling, probably eustachian tube plugged up. This I believe could do it. Rest, more careful dental hygiene. See what happens. Ear infections I am accustomed to, and also to flu symptoms, but not loss of balance. Some numbness in my left leg, nerve pinch? Circulation problems? Still need to pay attention and see what is up. Hope I don’t have cancer in the right side of my brain!

    We do have to be attentive to ourselves.

    But having said this, our streets, jails, mental hospitals, and homeless shelters are crammed full of people who have been told that they have something wrong with them. And then zillions of regular 9 to 5ers are on psych meds. And then countless others are in psychotherapy, wasting their time and money and being manipulated as they disclose their personal affairs.

    And then children are being used in this. Deleuze and Guattari say there is only one real mental illness, neuroticism. And it is incurable and it is fatal. I agree with them, and I put myself at the head of the list as one of the afflicted.

    They are quoting someone else, but I don’t remember who. And I don’t know that it is really incurable, as moving to living on the edge seems to be a cure.

    And then children are getting used in this. Neurotic people are making babies and then taking them to doctors. When this happens there should be court supervision and the child must be supplied with an attorney. Middle-class child abuse usually revolves around doctors.

    I had a friend who used to teach the gifted class for 6th grade. He said that with gifted kids, when you have parents who are very calm, all goes well. But when you have nervous parents, then it can be a disaster. I feel that this is in general true. And then one of this guy’s students, with this second type of parents, committed suicide.

    All I know is that we need to act. Of these people who have children in order to use them. Can’t do much about that before the fact. But after? Solution is simple, take all their money away from them and put it in trust for the child. That will stop it. That will stop the scapegoating and stop the creating of people with no legitimate identity.

    Of the psychiatrists putting kids on drugs, Crimes Against Humanity, International Court.

    Of the psychotherapists convincing people that there is nothing to do for redress, just have to live with it. What they do is so similar to what the Christian Evangelicals do. We must stop our government from licensing them, and we need to start putting some of them out of business. I am just itching to do this.

    After I have done a few, then probably I won’t be neurotic anymore.

    Nomadic

  • ~~~Psychological Distress~~~ is almost always a response to conflict and injustice. Peter Breggin explains something like this in “Beyond Conflict”. But facing it implies a commitment to doing something about it. And this is why Psychotherapy and Recovery are just more abuse.

    Nomadic

  • “most important thing we can do is acknowledge what has happened to people”

    Yes, but if you acknowledge what has happened then you must be committed doing something about it.

    Otherwise it is just Psychotherapy and Recovery, and these are Second Rape.

    Nomadic

  • How about just taking the drugs off the market?

    And then of the doctors who prescribe them to juveniles, how about pushing to have them tried for Crimes Against Humanity in International Court. This way they can’t invoke the Eichmann Defense.

    And then how about pushing to eliminate the possibility of disinheriting one’s children, as other industrialized countries do. Most of this stuff is simply family scapegoating, child abuse. Stop that, and then people start to have a chance at a life.

    Nomadic

  • In some states now it is illegal to submit a child to “sexual orientation reassignment therapy”. I see this as a tremendous step forward. But people are still sending their children to therapists whose main claim to fame is that they convince the child that their parents are “loving”. I see this is incredibly abusive, probably a felony violation of mandatory reporting, and just sickeningly creepy.

    If a child is going to be in any kind of therapy, that suggests familial conflict underlies it, and that suggests abuse. So it should be overseen by the court, and the child should be represented by an appointed attorney.

    While I would never try to outlaw psychotherapy between consenting adults, as it is only talk, we must stop our government from licensing it, as that legitimates it.

    I look forward to the day when people finally stop looking to Psychotherapy, Religion, and Recovery to interpret their lives for them. Instead they should honor their feelings and their experiences, instead of thinking that something is wrong with them.

    If someone has Survived the Middle-Class Family, then they have zero social legitimacy, because our society is based on lies, denial, and the exploitation of children.

    Why don’t people see this? It’s because the survivors are swept into psychotherapy, recovery, and religion, where they’re new found awareness is trampled on and they are taught again to worship the Holy Family.

    This will not change until people start to honor their own experiences and to recognize how much of their lives have been lost, and then start to politically organize and act.

    Right now we have pity seeking approaches to the Murphy Bill, and we have Psychotherapists advertising. A sorry state of affairs. But it changes the moment we start to demanding criminal prosecution and start suing some of these abusive parents and their psychotherapist collaborators, instead of asking for pity for those deemed mentally ill.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/

  • Fiachra and BPDT, you are both wrong. “Getting yourself straight” simply means learning to function in a world which is unjust without even trying to do anything about it.

    You need to learn to trust you basic impulses. And then you have been violated, you will feel those impulses. Therapy, Recovery, and Religion try to make you believe that those impulses are wrong. They aren’t.

    We need to start convicting and incarcerating some of these familial child abusers, and especially taking their money away from them.

    Telling people that the answer is in therapy is just like telling them that the problem lies within their own head. This is why I call it Second Rape.

    As it can still be, a rape victim goes to police to report the crime. She is made to feel that she is the responsible party, or that she may be lying or exaggerating, and then that she solution is just learning how to live with it!

    Psychotherapy is the reason that familial child abuse continues!!

    Psychotherapy completes what the abuser parents attempted!

  • Yes, that whole psychiatric industry should be shut down.

    But psychotherapy is still based on the same premises. As it is just talk I don’t think we should try to outlaw it. But we should force the government to stop issuing licenses. That does not protect anybody, it just legitimates it, and makes it okay for people to use on their kids.

    What we need is political and legal activism, and ways people can get involved and come to see why they find themselves so alienated in this world.

    Nomadic

  • Problem with this is that Healing, Recovery, and Therapy are all still ways of putting the blame back onto the victims. Offering this as the alternative to locked psychiatric wards, lobotomy, and medication, is all just pity seeking, letting perpetrators off the hook.

    It means the survivors never even attempt to claim back what of their life has been taken from them. They lose decades of their lives, and they lose any chance at a legitimated biography, and so what do they do about this, NOTHING!

    We should be working to get civil judgments and criminal convictions on the perpetrators. On the doctors, the therapists, and the parents. And most so called ‘psychiatric cases’ are really just the result of childhood familial abuses. When someone is denied a legitimated biography, they become at great risk for ending up in Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery.

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/what-is-wrong-about-psychotherapy-t315.html

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/uncle-tom-and-christian-meekness-t313.html

    Nomadic

  • Naas Siddiqui, I am glad that you hold rage. Actually I wouldn’t even call it that, as it makes it look like you are at fault. I am glad that you honor your rage.

    And I hope that you are one who wants to organize and take action, against Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and familial abuses.

    Nomadic

  • I also think parricide is an unusual situation. Not wanting to make it an exception to the homicide law, experts have noted that the perpetrators are usually in a state where they believe that have no other alternative. And further, these killings are always victim assisted.

    A legal and psychological argument about this is presented:
    https://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Families-Dynamics-Intrafamilial-Homicide/dp/0761907599/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    I find it interesting that in adjudicating this case, and in the above article, the focus is on mind altering intoxicants and on sanity or lack there of, and not on the dynamics and history of the parent child relationship.

    https://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Families-Dynamics-Intrafamilial-Homicide/dp/0761907599/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    Sometimes in parricide cases there is some leniency. Sometimes once the Prosecution sees how hard it is to do jury selection, people telling of how they hashed out at a parent and how it could have been fatal, they become more willing to deal.

    Nomadic

  • The Psychiatrist will tell you that the cause of your distress lies within yourself, but that he can fix you.

    The Psychotherapist will tell you that the cause of your distress lies within yourself, but that he can fix you.

    The Psychiatrist will give you drugs which reduce you ability to feel.

    The Psychotherapist will let you talk your self out, and then tell you that you just have to live with the past and stop trying to do anything about it.

    Both of them are telling you that you are the problem. Both of them are making you the survivor the one who is at fault. Neither of them is ever going to lift a finger to help correct the present situation of injustice.

    One who does not worship The Family is always going to be marginalized and at risk of ending up in the hands of Psychiatrists and Psychotherapists.

    So if we survivors want to change anything, we must absolutely reject them both.


    Hardly any of the ‘symptoms’ of psychological distress may correctly be seen as medical matters. The so-called psychiatric ‘disorders’ are nothing to do with faulty biology, nor indeed are they the outcome of individual moral weakness or other personal failing. They are the creation of the social world in which we live, and that world is structured by power.

    http://davidsmail.info/introfra.htm

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/what-is-wrong-about-psychotherapy-t315.html

  • Reid, thank you for writing such an outstanding article and posting it.

    The idea that people are insane is coming from Psychiatrists and Psychotherapists.

    So when people see someone, like say a homeless person, talking to themselves and seemingly very agitated, they will say, “He is mentally ill.”

    I would look at the same situation and come to a completely different conclusion. I would say, “He is very angry, and probably for extremely good reason.”

    The idea that people should just somehow learn to conform, and stuff their feelings about past abuses and the fact that they are being denied a biography, seems to come from Psychotherapy and Religion.

    Underneath what is supposedly mental illness, there is always actual and legitimate conflict. But our society is built upon lies and denial.

    The way to change this is never psychiatric drugs, psychotherapy, or getting Saved. It is in legal and political activism. Once we survivors are finally able to organize, then we will build for ourselves a legitimated identity.

    Read More Here:
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/what-is-wrong-about-psychotherapy-t315.html

    Thank you for your post,
    Nomadic

  • So while our society is saying, “you shouldn’t be sad, take a drug if you need to.” Psychotherapists are also saying something very similar, “Doesn’t matter if the only way to have a societally legitimated identity is to use denial and lies, just get over it. Don’t be angry, don’t be said, and above all don’t ever do anything which could hold the abusers responsible and change the way our society works. That would put Psychotherapy and Religion out of business.

    Nomadic

  • Yes, people are being prescribed drugs for small and smaller reason. And yes, we live in a society which discourages us from feeling our feelings, and this tends to support the use of drugs, and this societal approach is absolutely horrible.

    But Psychotherapy is also a drug. Psychotherapists are not activist attorneys, and they are not likely to be political activists.

    https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Conflict-Self-Help-Psychotherapy-Peacemaking/dp/0312123310

    Peter Breggin explains that underneath these so called indicators of mental illness, there is actually conflict, conflict with real people and with our society. I agree with him and I consider this insight to be essential.

    Now unfortunately Breggin is still advocating for some variety of therapy, and he is not a revolutionary. But neither are other therapists.

    As I see, Jeffrey Masson got it right, “The practice of Psychotherapy is wrong because it is profiting off of other people’s misery.”

    And then, “Against Therapy addresses the profession’s core weaknesses, contending that, since therapy’s aim is to change people, and this is achieved according to therapist’s own notions and prejudices, the psychological process is necessarily corrupt.”

    https://www.amazon.com/Against-Therapy-Emotional-Tyranny-Psychological-ebook/dp/B008KPZRDW/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    It used to be that therapists, following Freud, would tell juveniles complaining of ongoing sexual molestation that they were imagining. They would still be doing this today, were it not for the fact that we have a Mandatory Reporting Law, and so such conduct would constitute a felony.

    But what they do do, as chronicled in Masson’s book, is let people talk themselves out, and then basically say, “Well you’ve just got to deal with it.”

    So they are not actually calling the client a liar, in saying that they are making stuff up. But they are saying that the client is living in error, rather like living in sin. They are telling the client that they were wrong to believe that such abuses were ever something they should try to do anything about. They are just supposed to believe that because of the newer pedagogy manuals, sold in the chain book stores, that everything is better now.

    And so basically the role of the therapist is to get the client to sign on to the new pedagogy, and to be like everyone else and start worshiping the Holy Family.

    So the lie the therapist is putting out is that you can restore yourself to having a place in the world, without having to even try and impose redress on abusive individuals and institutions, and without actually having to have a legitimated biography.

    And then of course they have horribly taken advantage of their client, in terms of money and time, and especially in getting them to confess on the couch, to disclose their personal affairs to someone who is not at all a comrade. And sometimes this includes ritual celebrations of impotence, in punching pillows and screaming at them.

    And then the new pedagogy manuals are simply newer and slicker ways to use concepts like Empathy, Nurturing, Attachement, and Communications Skills to force a child to accept a parent’s attempt to break their spirit.

    About Rousseau and how pedagogy fills the needs of the Parents, not the Child
    http://www.nospank.net/fyog10.htm#gentle

    And so there are therapists who put kids on drugs, and this must be stopped. But there are also therapists who hire themselves out to parents because they will take the kid off drugs, and convince the child that it’s parents are loving, and so implied make the child wrong for standing up to them. This is also wrong, and it must be stopped, and some of these therapists advertise using Mad In America. And it also appears that they are violating Mandatory Reporting, whereas the therapists in public practice, who cannot be hired by parents, do a better job of compliance.

    One of the most basic distinctions of the middle-class family is that it hires its own doctors, instead of using public services. So a large portion of middle-class child abuse has always revolved around doctors. This is why Mandatory Reporting was such a brilliant concept. But of course these private practice therapists cannot comply with it or they’d be out of business.

    And then so with we the Adult Survivors of the Middle-Class Family, we have zero socially legitimated identity. And our abusers set it up this way on purpose, doing everything in their power to make it impossible for us to have any claim to being more than the pitiful creatures they tried to hammer us into.

    And so Psychotherapists are some of the worst abusers, by their very choice of profession, they have committed themselves to inaction, to the premise that they best way of responding to injustice, is to be an Uncle Tom and to do absolutely nothing about it.

    Ask a therapist, how much money in lawsuits have your recovered on behalf of your clients? How many abusers have you put into prison? What laws have you gotten changed, so that parents will be held civilly and criminally accountable?

    The answer is of course that they have done absolutely nothing, but they make their clients feel better. Well this is the description of what drugs do.

    So for those of us who have Survived the Middle-Class Family, of course the first thing to do is to start guarding the operational security of our affairs. That means stop talking and start maintaining strict privacy. Then the second thing is to totally reject all the escapes, alcohol, street drugs, psychiatric medications, psychotherapy, and religion. And then third, organize and start fighting legally and legislatively for concrete changes. Take the money away from the abusers, and lock the worst of them in prison, along with some psychiatrists and psychotherapists, and then we should be the ones to set up our own foster care.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/remedy-legal-and-political-activism-t306.html

  • Why do people continue to use psychiatric medications, when they are not being held in custody and forced?

    It has always seemed to me that it was because they’ve been conned, because they believe it is better if one does not feel their feelings, and because these drugs have the same sort of addictive hook that alcohol and street drugs do.

    We should not see this as a major moral failing, as these drugs and the general idea of chemical escapism are promoted from all quarters.

    Congratulations on getting drug free.

    As I see it, getting people on drugs and making them into a societal scapegoat is deliberate. It stops the people who are at the bottom and otherwise marginalized from politically organized. How could people ever fight back, if they believe that they have an innate defect. It’s all an adaptation of the religious concept of Original Sin. Our society needs people it can subject to ritual humiliations, in order to keep everyone else in line.

    So until we can get people to refuse all psychiatric drugs, and alcohol and street drugs, and psychotherapy, recovery and evangelical region, we have very little chance of ever being able to do anything about the current state of affairs. As long as people are not willing to fight back, and instead seek pity, then most people will feel that those in the untouchable caste deserve no better than they have.

    The only way we can go, is to seek justice. This means suing doctors and parents, and all those who have sought to deny us a place in this world. And we need to bring about criminal prosecutions as well.

    The Institutionalization of Poverty,
    Creating an Underclass in America
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV49hGm8Cjg

    Nomadic

  • Protesting in front of the County Hospital and its Clinics? In front of the private clinics that market to parents?

    Signs which denounce drugs and promise that involuntary drugging could never be enforced?

    Crimes Against Humanity prosecutions for the doctors?

    Telling parents that taking a child to psychotherapy without court supervision and the child being represented by an attorney, is medical child abuse?

    Attorney network lined up to represent as many clients as possible?

    MindFreedom has claimed to have an underground railroad and safe houses. How often have these been used.

    “If you beg a man for a victory, he gives it to you, its his victory, not yours.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxrzTsfpPfM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bk4e9tCaBw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtgb0IZ4psE

    Or just protesting in front of the newspaper’s office and worrying about its editorial policies and views?

    Nomadic

  • You talk about fears of violence and the need for inclusiveness. You are still supporting the concept of Mental Illness.

    Of course if you deny someone any shred of human dignity and desexualize them, they may well become violent. No different from if you keep jabbing at an animal with a stick.

    Capitalism used to get its scapegoats from slave labor and cheap labor. Now in the information age there is much less need for labor. But there is an even greater need for scapegoats to subject to ritual humiliations in order to maintain discipline. So the middle-class family is tasked with producing these scapegoats. We have now this untouchable caste which is always in Recovery and Therapy, and usually on alcohol, street drugs, and psychiatric medications.

    The more Social Darwinists and Eugencists can show that this untouchable caste does not fight back, but instead seeks approval and pity, the more it feels vindicated.

    We must oppose all forms of Psychotherapy and Recovery, as well as Psychiatry and Drugging, while we make sure that doctors and parents are prosecuted, and that the victims are compensated.

    We must never go along with the pity seeking implicit in Therapy and Recovery.

    Therapy and Recovery = Uncle Tom
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/uncle-tom-and-christian-meekness-t313.html

    Nomadic

  • But Bonnie, what you say is true, and this is why survivors of the psychiatric system must stop courting pity from the newspapers, like the Boston Globe. And they must also stop associating with psychotherapists, and with people who use psych meds or see pscyhotherapists.

    And then we who have survived the middle-class family must stop associating with therapists who market their services to parents, and who disregard mandatory reporting. Middle-class child abuse always revolves around doctors.

    Nomadic

  • If you are arguing against the enforcement of child protections, then you are arguing on behalf of child abusers. And we know that most child sexual abuse happens in the family, and is done by biological parents. I have confirmed this with an expert in child protection, Andrew Vachss.

    And then with the psychological abuse of children, this is almost entirely the province of biological parents, and the therapists they hire.

    So I do not accept or reciprocate you in your well wishing.

    Nomadic

  • Thank you Someone Else for your detailed posts, and I’ll follow up with your links.

    As I see it the issue is child exploitation. I try to be reserved in calling it child abuse, saving that for things which could be criminally prosecuted.

    I prefer to speak of child exploitation, to indicate that there is nothing aberrational about it, as it is the norm.

    What make the middle-class family unique is that the parents are living in bad faith, they don’t want to admit that they have choices.

    For those in traditional societies and primitive societies, they do not have any choice. But the middle-class does, and they know it, but they don’t want to admit it.

    The children see this, that the parents hold to very high Enlightenment ideals, but they just don’t live it. And they use their children to hide behind and they act deliberately to harm their children.

    Now most of the time, the children just end up exactly like their parents, and they have children so that they can do the same thing. But once in a while, the child is able to see what is being done, and to see that it is wrong, and so they come to resist. So these are the cases where you have open antagonism between parent and child. And these are the cases that we need to jump in on. Make sure that the child ( adult-child ) is fully vindicated.

    So while there is no such thing as mental illness, there are definite stresses and strains incurred by living in a world where you have no legitimated social identity.

    And so the solution is that we the Survivors of the Middle-Class Family must not only reject Psychiatry and Psychiatric Medication, we must also reject Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Salvation Seeking.

    We do need to learn from the Black Movement, but not its Uncle Tom wing, from its more radical nationalist wing.

    We need to organize and take our own actions and set up our own institutions and build our own economics, while at the same time taking actions on a regular basis which undermine the middle-class family, offering no quarter and expecting none.

    Nomadic

  • Anonymous2016,

    I agree with you. Doctors have always been a central feature in middle-class child abuse. They used to call it Munchausen’s By Proxy, now we just call it Medical Child Abuse. Sometimes the doctors are more the culpable party, and sometimes it is more the parent(s). And then sometimes it is the two working hand in hand together, and this is more often the case when it comes to mental health doctors.

    So I am for full enforcement of the law.

    Failure to report in suspected cases of child abuse is a felony.

    Child endangerment is a felony.

    And child abuse is a felony.

    Very unlikely that someone who was not already being subjected to familial child abuse would end up in the mental health system, or homeless.

    And I won’t say that homelessness causes mental illness, because there is no such thing as mental illness.

    The wind and the cold and the rain are not that harsh, people learn how to contend with them. But if someone is homeless they subjected to scorn and pity from all quarters. This can often be enough to push someone over the edge.

    But the remedy to this, as to all other injustices, is political and legal activism, not therapy, recovery, or religion.

    Parents who have children in order to use them, must be held accountable.

    The last guy who tried to use me as an after the fact accomplice child abuser, by going on and on and on, telling me all about how bad is daughter is, is now serving a very long term in our state prison.

    He almost lost it in hallway the first day, when I showed up for jury selection.

    I am convinced that for most people, once they see that they are needed in order to help achieve justice, that their substance addictions and seemingly crazy behaviors will vanish. The issue is always political awareness, never anything to do with mental health.

    Observers have long noted how in the Soviet Union, they would send anyone who isn’t a happy camper and doesn’t go along with the system, to a Psychiatrist.

    Well it works exactly the same way here. Anyone who isn’t in compliance with the expectations of Capitalism and the Middle-Class Family, is deemed mentally ill, and is likely going to end up in psychiatry, psychotherapy, recovery, or evangelical religion.

    Nomadic

  • Mental heath organizations may or may not want to endorse the black lives movement. Since I will have to contact or communications with them, what they do does not concern me.

    But I would suggest that the black lives movement have zero contact with mental health organizations. I would suggest that no one have any contact with any mental health organizations.

    Nothing I am involved in will be having contact with any mental health organizations.

    I am committed to the eradication of the entire mental health system, and starting with the removal of psychiatric medications from the market, the delicensing of psychotherapists, and then full enforcement of mandatory reporting in cases of suspected child abuse, the prohibition on child endangerment, and the prohibition of child abuse. These three enforcements would already be enough to incarcerate most mental health professionals.

    Nomadic

  • Chrisa, I would look close at the parents and the family. Family scapegoating is how the fraud known as mental illness starts.

    So when you have a parent v child problem, first the child must be protected, and this means CPS, a CASA volunteer, an attorney, and the Family Court.

    Then, as it can be established that the parents have used the child, exploited them, then all their assets must be confiscated and held in trust for the benefit of the child. Take the profit out of middle-class child abuse, and show everyone that you cannot have a child to use, and get away with it.

    If they are still committing further abuses or keeping the child on drugs, then they must be imprisoned.

    And then for the doctors who are putting children on psychiatric meds, they should be prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity, and in International Court. This goes way beyond anything US penal codes were designed to contend with.

    I helped put one abusive parent away myself. He had a huge emotional investment in scapegoating his eldest daughter, going on and on about what was wrong with her, while he had 6 felony charges pending for molesting all three of his daughters.

    And his whole church was backing him, as most all of them have a scapegoat child and a scapegoat sibling.

    So I got involved, read his published writings, and by an unusual turn of fate my involvement ended up lasting over 2.5 years.

    But now he is serving a very long state prison sentence and I am overjoyed because of this.

    Where there is a parent v child conflict, this is how it should be handled.

    And in each of my communications with the DA and the court, I emphasized how much energy this guy had invested in scapegoating his daughter, and just how much all of his church members go along with that. The scapegoating is abuse, the scapegoating conceals abuse. And I emphasized how his church must be saturated with familial abuse, and we cannot expect more victims to come forward unless these girls are vindicated.

    You mentioned homelessness and incarceration. Well in trying to maximize this guy’s sentence I emphasized to the court that his church runs an outreach ministry, to the poor and homeless, and also to many on parole or probation.

    I explained that if these girls had listened to their church, and acted like nothing happened. The it could well have been that a decade down the road, failed marriages, failed attempts to get an education, failed attempts to build a career, that they could become the targets for that church’s outreach ministry. They would be told that all their problems are caused by themselves, and because they don’t walk with Jesus, don’t practice forgiveness, and are ‘carrying stuff around’, and are ‘rebelious’.

    I never would have gotten involved in that guy’s case unless I would rather have handled him myself. I’m not asking the state to lock more people up. But I do accept that that way is better, because it educates the public. He got the benefit of an attorney and a jury trial. And when police arrested him, they even read him his Miranda Rights.

    I want all of those who have children and abuse them to get that benefit, even though I would greatly enjoy dealing with them myself.

    As far as a position to take with the government, and why I do not support Sera’s method of handling the Boston Globe:

    1. Stop licensing psychotherapists, as that only perpetuates a con and helps people who want to abuse their children.

    2. Take the psychiatric drugs off of the market, as all it is amounts to an overflow of our street drug and alcohol problem. And all these drugs do is further abuse the survivors of abuse, and cover up for the abuse.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/pity-seeking-in-boston-t311.html

  • John C. Calhoun of South Carolina used to always say, “I can hitch up my wagon, load up my slave, and go anywhere I want, and no government has any right to stop me.”

    That is nuts, but it is exactly that sort of thinking which powers the Right today. He is placing slave ownership above state law and state constitutions, above federal law, and seemingly even above the federal constitution.

    He is placing it above everything, but he still expects the law to protect him from constituted popular sovereignty.

    Trying to enforce this is what led to war, things like having to deploy 3000 Marines, who would assemble in a square and draw their sabers, to rendition suspected escaped slaves through Boston harbor, and dragging them over the marker commemorating Crispus Attucks, a probably escaped slave and the first to die in the cause of American independence.

    Excellent Book:
    https://www.amazon.com/More-Than-Freedom-Citizenship-1829-1889-ebook/dp/B006CUDF9K/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1#navbar

    And it shows how the rejection of pity seeking, and disgust over Harriet Beecher-Stowe’s character of Uncle Tom were where what mobilized the Black Abolitionist community.

    Yale’s David Blight
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXXp1bHd6gI&list=PL5DD220D6A1282057

    But as it applies here today, its more like, “I can gas up my mini-van and take my kids to any doctor I want, and CPS has no right to stop me.”

    Middle-class child abuse has always revolved around doctors and we do have mandatory reporting laws, but these doctors don’t comply with it.

    And then most of the survivors of the psychiatric system don’t understand that it all originates with the middle-class family and child exploitation.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/free-expression-f2.html

  • lu, I appreciate your point of view and your willingness to look at the situation critically.

    “You set me up: trusted parents, trusted caregivers, trusted priests, intolerant community, community of denial: “priests don’t do that.”

    I wish everyone who has ended up in the mental health system or otherwise living on the margins could come to see how it is like this for them too. When it gets this way, things can finally start to change. People won’t see themselves as the victims of random happenings. People will understand that it is deliberate and systemic injustice.

    But, I think you have still only traveled half of the journey. You are seeing that there is injustice behind what has happened, but what you are doing amounts to asking for allowances and accommodations, all another way of asking for pity.

    The stigmatizing and scapegoating of children is by design. Capitalism needs this in order to maintain discipline, and the middle-class family exists only to do this, exploit and abuse children.

    This is war.

    So what we need to focus on is not asking for allowances and understanding, but on concrete political results.

    Close down the mental health system and prosecute doctors. Confiscate the assets of the parents and doctors and place them in trust for the children and other victims.

    Then offer supervised independent study based schools, and convert from welfare and disability benefits to citizenship pay.

    This Boston Globe, yes they are a problem. But I do not go along with the way Sera is handling it, or any of her articles here. It is all just asking for pity. I would be ashamed to be involved in anything like this.

    Why worry about trying to tell the newspaper what they should print, when right now today, parents are driving their kids to psychotherapists, psychiatrists, and disabilities doctors. These doctors do not report the parents to CPS, as they should. These doctors market their services to the parents. The present their philosophy, that these are loving parents, and so they will in turn make their children compliant by making the children believe that they have a defect. Some of these doctors do this with drugs, and some do it while taking the child off drugs. But both types are professional state licensed child abusers. And they are competing for market share.

    And then all this passivity feeds right into the Social Darwinists, and their premise that many people are not fit to live. They feel that this untouchable cast deserves no better than what they already have because of how unfit they are.

    So how can you tell the newspapers what they should be writing, when you have not given them something else to write about?

    Who is calling for Crimes Against Humanities prosecution of these doctors? Who is calling for full enforcement of mandatory reporting in suspected cases of child abuse, rather than letting these doctors market to well-off parents?

    Who is telling the parents that they have expert lawyers ready, and that they will be held accountable for abusing their child?

    Protest at the newspaper office?

    https://www.madinamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/sean-photo-1.jpg

    That won’t accomplish much. Why not protest at these clinics and psych wards? And why not protest in fronts of the offices these private practice psychotherapists?

    And don’t ask for consideration, as that is must more pity. Make the most blistering indictments of these people you possibly can. Demand that our government stop funding any of this. And demand that they stop licensing these people too. We don’t license faith healers, psychics, or channelers, so we should not be licensing psychotherapists.

    If Scientologists were telling people that they could fix their children by interrogating them with an E-meter and then getting them to renounce all their cares and concerns and making them just like Tom Cruise and John Travolta, those Scientologists would soon find themselves in jail.

    But psychotherapists get to do something very similar, and to market to parents, because our government licenses them. The licensing is what makes it 20x more dangerous than it should be.

    So protests should be blistering indictments of the people doing the abuse, and calling for specific political reforms and punishments. Protesting against a newspaper, even a stupid newspaper, is misguided, and really just pity seeking.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/trauma-in-medical-care-t310.html

  • “Every single mental health reform in the US today owes its existence in part to the struggle of Black people in this country.”

    Very true.

    But, an important lesson from the Black Struggle is being overlooked. People must not be asking for pity, or be complicit by being Uncle Tom’s.

    Psychotherapy and the concept of Recovery are pity seeking and Uncle Tommery.

    There must be specific demands for redress, remedy, compensation, and criminal prosecutions, as well as an open ended willingness to make sure that more children and adults are not harmed by Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, or Recovery.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/pity-seeking-in-boston-t311.html

  • from the start of your article:

    “•Afford us basic respect and end your sensationalized, scapegoating approach”

    Who is this “us”? You are asking people to identify as mentally ill?

    And if instead you mean “survivors of the psychiatric system”, then you are asking for respect?

    Either way it is all still just pity seeking.

    Identifying with non-existent illnesses, or asking for respect for having survived completely illegitimate abuses, but without any direct acts to oppose them. All just more pity seeking!

    And all the worse because this is all tied to a resurgence of Social Darwinism and Eugenics. These pseudo sciences put forward the notion that some portion of the population is not really fit to survive. You feed this when you ask for pity.

    Capitalism needs to have people it can submit to ritual humiliations, in order to maintain discipline. It used to get this from those doing low wage labor and slave labor. But today the need for such labor is much less, while the need for having people to subject to ritual humiliations grows ever higher.

    So it is the middle-class family which provides the scapegoats, those relegated to lives of alcohol, drugs, and medication, and who are held up for ritual humiliations.

    And every time someone is asking for pity, they are compounding this. And this is why I will have no contact with Mind Freedom.

    Telling the newspaper what it should print, but not demanding specific compensations from abusers, and not doing anything to oppose the continuing abuse of more children and adults.

    People should be 100% refusing any psychiatric labels and 100% rejecting any of these so called “treatments”, and showing that they won’t allow any more people to be subjected to them and insisting on criminal prosecution and financial compensation.

    1. Eradicate the Mental Health System.
    2. Prosecute the Doctors for Crimes Against Humanity in International Court.
    3. Interdict any ongoing mental health system activities.
    4. When applied to children, prosecute doctors and parents, and strip both of all assets, to be held in trust for the child. Also prosecute doctors for Violating Mandatory Reporting, for Child Endangerment, and for Child Abuse.
    5. Prosecute for historical mental health treatments and strip doctors and parents of all assets, on behalf of survivors.
    6. Refuse all psych meds, Psychotherapy, and Recovery or Rehabilitation Programs.
    7. Citizenship Pay instead of Welfare or Disability money.
    8. Free accredited degree programs via supervised independent study and life long learning.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/pity-seeking-in-boston-t311.html

  • “Where is the trauma in medical care?”

    Well often medical care is an integral component of middle-class child abuse. We used to call this Muchausen’s by Proxy. But now we just call it Medical Child Abuse. The parent is getting some payoff by finding fault with the child and making the child believe that there is something wrong with them.

    And then when you look at psychotherapy and psychiatry, the parent is using the pretext of completely nonexistent illnesses to have the doctor to break and suppress the child, rather like the ways that primitive societies use sharp stones and hot coals to convert children into what they see as adults.

    The main concept the middle-class family works on is the Self-Reliance Ethic, a Capitalism originated adaption of Original Sin.

    Now there are two main groups of professional child abusers, the first uses drugs, and the second is anti drug. Both groups hire themselves out to the parents. And today these two groups are in competition for market share. Some of this second group advertise by posting on MadInAmerica.

    But almost always, when these types of therapists and doctors are treating children, they are committing the felony of Violating Mandatory Reporting, they are committing the felony of Child Endangerment, and they are committing the felony of Psychological Child Abuse.

    Now sometimes adults will walk into the office of a psychiatrist or psychotherapist on their own. They don’t understand that the anxiety and helplessness they are feeling is the direct result of childhood exploitation and abuses. And the doctors are not going to help them find this out either. Drugs help nothing. And psychotherapy is designed to reinforce the feeling that the problems lie in your own head, rather than in the absolute reality of living in this world with a nullified social identity.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/must-reject-psychotherapy-it-is-just-like-drugs-t304.html

  • Circa, I assume you are speaking to me. Yes, I am a survivor of the middle-class family.

    But rather than just moaning about it, or tuning out via drugs or therapy, I am working online and on the ground to organize fellow survivors so that we can take back the social standing which has been usurped, and to protect the children of today from exploitation and abuse.

    We must not ever go along with the pity seeking approaches of Therapy, Recovery, and Religion.

    People see that life is hard, but far too often they are unwilling to see why it is so hard.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/survivors-of-the-middle-class-family-t243.html

  • Kenneth, thank you for that information. I am interested in learning more about Healing Homes. And I think a great deal could be learned from the Social Democracies of Western Europe, and that that is the direction we need to be going.

    But about the idea of “Healing”, that sounds a great deal like Recovery and Therapy, putting the blame back on the victim, and so I oppose it.

    As far as Daniel Mackler, he says a great many very astute things, like, “Suicide is the Ultimate Victory for the Family System”.

    But beyond that, I strongly disagree with Daniel Mackler, because he opposes redress. He endorses the denial systems of Recovery, Therapy, and “Live and Let Live”. He supports tune outs, surrendering lived social reality to the abusers, instead of fighting them street by street and house by house and reclaiming the social legitimacy which has been usurped.

    Mackler wears holes in the knees of his pants, venerating the Holy Family. He has placed it on such a high pedestal that it is unreachable. “Oh if only I had grown up in a Good Family, have pity on me.”

    Mackler does not understand that what he is saying solves nothing. He tells people not to have children and then makes them wrong when they do. He talks about enlightenment and opposes this to dissociation. He seems not to understand that in both the East and the West, enlightenment was a concept invented by male celibates, in order to escape for the power of women. Enlightenment is dissociation.

    You will never get women to admit that there is something they need which they do not already have to be ready for maternity. You don’t accomplish anything by telling people not to have children or for making them wrong when they do. Mackler is a lost soul.

    What you can do is hold parents accountable, and in a civilized society this means taking them to court. Macker refuses to accept this. And this is why people become therapists, because they are committed to no redress, because then they don’t have to feel their own pain.

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php
    Nomadic

  • I go with Peter Breggin, “Beyond Conflict”, on this. Underneath the supposed symptoms of “mental illness”, there is conflict. The issue is always social injustice.

    And then going further than Breggin was willing to, it is almost always about familial child abuse.

    So if people can organize and fight back, so called mental illness evaporates. There is no such thing as mental illness, just injustice which has not be redressed.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/index.php

  • I believe that we both understand that in the specific scenario you described in your second story, there really is no problem with how things turned out. So the issue then is simply, what exactly you are trying to promote with your article?

    I also fully support the development of small communities where everyone has a say and everyone takes care of everyone else. I think my post where I mentions Israel’s Kibbutz Movement has gotten approved. I think we need something like that. But I also am convinced that until we interdict on some of the ways that middle-class families perpetrate psychological child abuse and otherwise use children, the situation will continue to deteriorate.

    So right now the only protection children have comes via laws enacted which allow intervention when there is child abuse. And as it is to protect the child, the standard of proof is lower than it would be when seeking a criminal conviction of the abuser.

    While efforts to implement this are always going to be imperfect and subject to abuse, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the premises.

    And in fact, though not fully ratified, the US has finally signed:

    It requires that states act in the best interests of the child. This approach is different from the common law approach found in many countries that had previously treated children as possessions or chattels, ownership of which was sometimes argued over in family disputes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child

    And should the Senate finally ratify it, then this will have the force of federal law. I am not sure how many other countries are like this, but in the US you can sue in federal court if someone violates a ratified treaty.

    But your write:
    “I would prioritize the family over the institution.”

    There is no family interest, and their is no institutional interest. So your trade off is bogus both ways. The family cannot claim that holding the child is a legally legitimate interest. And then CPS, foster care, and the state itself do not have an interest in holding the child.

    If you mean that you believe that the child’s interests would be better met by the family than by an institution, well this could well be true. As I have said, the things you described in your story where not that serious, and so the risks always were minimized.

    The problem here is simply that you are using your anecdote to make the subversion of laws designed to protect children into a political cause, rather than offering ways which we can all work to make the laws designed to protect children more effective.

    So yes, you are advancing a Familiest agenda.

    You claim yourself a feminist. Well in the 20th century there have been tremendous advances in the legal standing of women and in laws designed to protect women. Children however have never enjoyed this kind of advocacy.

    And so here we are today, someone has a negative relationship with their child, and so they will be hiring a psychotherapist to convince that child that they are the one who is wrong, and for the child this whole process is coercive and without any outside authority monitoring it.

    This could result in said child becoming part of our untouchable cast which has no chance at anything like an ordinary life.

    I do not wish you any “best”, I am opposed in everyway to what you are trying to promote.

    Nomadic

  • Circa, are you responding to me?

    In the US we have a huge untouchable caste which lives a very marginalized existence, often consisting of alcohol, drugs, and psychiatric medication, while sleeping in shelters or under bridges, or in Recovery Programs.

    It is all abuse, because people who have been treated with dignity and respect and who have been given the chance to develop and apply their abilities would not be susceptible to alcohol, drugs, psychiatry, or psychotherapy.

    It is all predicated on the ways that the middle-class family is allowed, and expected, to exploit and abuse children.

    You wrote,

    “I don’t understand your comment. How is empowering patients to assess/manage their health care “doing evil”? ”

    Empowering patients to manage their health care is doing evil if it is all based on fallacious premises, non-existent illnesses and ailments. This is how psychotherapy and psychiatry work, what we used to call Munchausen’s by Proxy, but that we now just call Medical Child Abuse. Children are being convinced that there is something wrong with them. And so as this is being done over and over and over, they believe it, and they end up in this huge untouchable caste.

    As Capitalism no longer needs so much cheap labor, it looks to The Family to provide scapegoats to subject to ritual humiliations in order to maintain compliance.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/must-reject-psychotherapy-it-is-just-like-drugs-t304.html

  • Psychiatry and Psychotherapy must be responded to with lawsuits. When the newspapers fill with stories of parents losing all their money and having it go into trust funds for their children, then the use of therapists to help them abuse their children will stop.

    And likewise when the papers are filled with stories of Psychiatrists and Psychotherapists being imprisoned because they are helping parents to abuse their children, then they will stop.

    So attorneys and strategic lawsuits, plus some legislative changes are the answer.

    “The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_principles#Principle_II

    Nomadic

    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/capitalism-and-socialism-use-the-family-t308.html

  • We, the survivors of the middle-class family, need to set up our own foster care group homes. The present set up is horrid because it is designed to be so, otherwise it would undermine the justifications for the middle-class family. Brilliant political leaders have come out of orphanages. To prevent this from happening, is why our foster care is horrid.

    Drugging of kids, just like scapegoating them by using psychotherapy, is child abuse. And as it is intentionally being directed against children, it is also Crimes Against Humanity. And it violates Mandatory Reporting, a felony.

    We must not be doing anything which gives kids more psychiatric medications, as that is like trying to use alcohol to cure someone who has been turned into an alcoholic.

    I agree with Oldhead and Cat. And people have to learn to feel their feelings and regulate themselves. You don’t get that with more prescription meds, more street drugs, or more alcohol.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/free-expression-f2.html

  • Iden,

    Yes, I remember Shirley Chisholm very well, and thank you for your article and for reminding us of her.

    This country was founded on racism. And a basic tenant of it has always been that the law cannot touch it.

    And Capitalism needs to have people it can subject to ritual humiliations. So it used to get this in people doing low wage labor, or people being held as slaves. Immigrants, minorities, and neo-colonialism provided for these needs.

    But as industrialization has continued to advance and we’ve moved into the information age, the need for cheap labor and slave labor is much less. But the need for people to subject to ritual humiliations has increased.

    So now, the middle-class family has been tasked with providing scapegoats. The middle-class family never would have existed if it weren’t allowed to convert children into private property and exploit and abuse them. It’s central dogma is the Self-Reliance Ethic, an overcoding based on Original Sin.

    And so today, we see pro-drug child scapegoaters and anti-drug child scapegoaters competing for market share. And the later are advertising on MadInAmerica. They used to call this Muchausen’s By Proxy, but today we just call it what it is, Medical Child Abuse.

    And we still have the idea that the law cannot intercede. Both groups of child scapegoaters are almost always committing felony failure to comply with mandatory reporting, and often felony child endangerment and felony child abuse.

    And so we have a huge untouchable cast which likely never will have any chance at anything like a ordinary life, living on prescription medications, street drugs, and alcohol, and anything which will protect them from the pain of living in a world where they are completely delegitimated.

    Capitalism needs this, in order to maintain discipline. And so while racism remains strong and lethal, there is a broader interest which it serves, along with middle-class child abuse.

    And Cat, I like your post.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/reply-to-rehumanizing-resistance-t305.html

  • Some of you folks are posting love letters.

    The anti-drug therapists and the pro-drug therapists are competing with each other for market share. Both types hire themselves out to parents who want to scapegoat their child.

    http://www.mentalhealthexcellence.org/projects/collaborative-pathway-fund/


    For young people experiencing early psychosis, and for their families, treatment options are often limited, and focus on rapid and early psychopharmacological interventions.

    It’s all Medical Child Abuse, what they used to call Munchausen’s By Proxy.

    Nomadic
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/message-to-chris-gordon-md-t302.html

  • I’m not condoning reckless or misdirected acts of violence. They are unfair, and they are not effective.

    But also understand that our society is based on The Middle-Class Family, and that was designed to abuse and exploit children. And so since this is not understood, we have a huge underclass living on psychiatric medication, plus street drugs and alcohol.

    And then we have per