Friday, August 7, 2020

Comments by Nijinsky

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  • Rose, I notice you’re still using the terminology “panic attack,” which is then used as a “symptom,” needing you know what. What if that was just a normal response to whatever was going on, and if you allowed yourself to just feel that without labeling it, even if you didn’t like it, it could have just been trying to tell you that you could manage your time better than trying to stay up all night, and the quiet would have come from that, but just calling it a panic attack is how you get baited into the system. I think.

    Because it seems that along the way you had a voice trying to tell you this isn’t right, which you mentioned……

    I think you’d be surprised what peace that voice can bring in contrast to…..

    Everything is supposed to be measured in physical terms, but what if that voice comes from another place without such orders of difficulty, even though the response is to think: “no, I need fill-in-the-blank instead?

  • The point I was trying to make is how people that support using violence (whether it’s just or criminal, actually) use the same “evidence” that there is a “lessening” of symptoms of the problem in order to deny that in reality in the end there’s more of it, which you see with any system which supports such ideas. Every “government,” fighting the most wars, having the harshest penal system shows what the result is. The same as the mental health system saying they are creating healing by suppressing symptoms, symptoms that when not truly attended to cause more of the problem.

    And Caroline really!? You actually try to put forth that there’s no rule of law, or even that without the ability to wield the right to punish people who don’t follow set laws there’s no “government?” Which in reality you make out only exists then if those rules are enforced by a system allowed to traumatize others when they don’t follow those “rules.” And when you have a system where people are on mass controlled by fear in such a manner than you have “rules of law?” There are natural laws, by the way. When you are kind to someone it changes their metabolism, how their body responds to stimuli, and that promotes healing… compassion,… empathy; and yet there was never need for any enforcing agent to create such an effect when it evolved as part of the human experience and how the body responds. Is that supposed to not exist then, because it’s better to traumatize people into behaving a certain way. And then there are natural laws, no penal system is enforcing those, and without such “enforcement” water still boils at the same temperature; only if that rule is broken that’s called a miracle, but those happen under completely different rules than believing traumatizing a person to be controlled is effective.

    Jesus talked about a Kingdom of Heaven, I don’t think the rules in that kingdom have any need to punish or control people wielding the right to traumatize them when they don’t obey set array of commands or “rules.” In fact they have nothing to do with that other than to show there’s a different way, a way that works.

    And Caroline it really concerns me, because you mention fears about withdrawal induced manic psychosis, but…
    Endeavors, as much as they have become part of your heart, they might be getting you to go along with all sorts of stuff that, when you are that vulnerable, and trying to deal with even the heartbreak of having thought too well of them or if not them others, because going off of “medications” is going to heighten intelligence to see such things and sharpen the memories, there’s going to be stuff you have to let go of, even though it consequently makes you feel like you are nowhere, and then you are offered these “magic” solutions backed up by what seems like the power to make change, and that will make you “manic.” The real solutions don’t involve the stress or the “magic.”

    And I notice I’ve been trying to explain things, things that are extremely difficult to explain, and which one has to experience, or realize you already have and weren’t cognizant of it.

    So, I found this I shared with a healer, which might make what I was trying to say a little clearer, but I really have to bow out now:

    There’s a term called the Atonement, and as Jesus was explaining that I got a visual image, something akin to rays of energy or light, like a blossom or a fountain, but there’s an incredible ability to sort of accelerate and catch something, which was the first thing that expressed itself about it. But then I understood, it’s like it when someone sees something, something akin to catching someone from running into the street when there are cars rushing by, or before they would fall or anything like that. But with the atonement, it’s that it catches us before we would invest in the wrong thing. Because really, when we believe we need to invest in defenses, we actually invest instead in needing something against something else, and actually are demanding a reason for such a defense, which we are making up out of fear of letting go of what in reality is demanding it (the defense) be justified, and thus causes the problem. You can see that is so many places. The police, the military, all places where the right to traumatize others is given and invested in; and were society not worshiping that kind of mind control people never would invest in using trauma for criminal gain. It wouldn’t occur to desperate people having been discarded by society, and having lost faith in anything free of that, like spirit is meant to be.

  • When you think you need “defenses” you also need whatever you believe you need the defenses for in order to excuse that; and then you believe yourself separate from what you’re defending against. You also believe all of the time and space and physical “reality” that consequently gets put into play has to do with needing defenses, rather than not needing defenses you wouldn’t need an excuse for them. Thus we have the whole supposed impasse, and are told that things don’t go away like that, and it’s crazy to believe you have such ability such that by looking at things differently they change, or it’s arrogant to think you have such ability. Would one truly pay attention, you might see how much stress you cause in your life denying this, and what resentments you put on anyone else not taking part in believing that what doesn’t work needs more people to believe in it, as if then it would be working. And then instead failing to allow yourself to gain such perspective, or assimilate what’s really happening that points out such truths. And thus you have to make yourself separate from it otherwise not needing an excuse for defenses the problem would go away along with the excuse you’re defending, which is the real cause not what consequently happens to show you you could have let go of it, could have responded differently, could have seen things differently. You also then limit what you call the physical to being deprived of the “miracles” that would otherwise happen to solve the problem what they would do non violently. And then there’s even fear against, that, because when a thought system is – even non violently – shown to be in error, people might still have to such a degree invested in it that they perceive a great loss. And can fuss endlessly about this, pointing out a myriad of occurrences they refuse or fail to see aren’t truly caused by anything outside of themselves. And you’re doing that, it’s not anything outside of you you need to defend against. That’s why Jesus tried to teach forgiveness. Because it works, it’s what changes direction to alleviate a cause rather than bury it by the effects is elicits that are blamed on something else.

    The whole mental health system is a good example of this. When “medications” turn off “symptoms” for an interim, and the cause isn’t deal with, that’s called healing, and the whole consequent epidemic that comes from it is blamed on the “disease” rather than the lack of perspective, even when people who aren’t “medicated” in general do better beyond the initial interim when symptoms are suppressed and before there’s the eruption of relapsing, paranoia against normal human responses to difficult or unusual situations, more disability, lose of life expectancy, a plethora of side effects. Thus go “defenses” against a “disease.”

  • I’m not going to dwell on this, and only briefly looked over responses, after bowing out, which I’m still doing: Bowing out.

    Again to point out what’s “marketed” to be a solution, but might be the opposite. Beyond the Nuremberg trials, it’s in many ways the international court which set Germany up for Hitler to take over before that, given how much debt was piled on them [Germany] after WW1, and Hitler could deceive a desperate people and himself. It’s also now the international court, the IMF etc. along with political behavior, that is what is decimating countries where extremism pops up. Not to mention what is happening to the environment, and already happened to indigenous cultures all over the planet that respected the environment. And we’re to believe that’s promoting a working economic system and the consumer oriented society it’s exploitation offers is “happiness,” or the pursuit of it.

    And what I believe is a rule is that when you stop investing in what causes a problem: that violence is a means to an end, and supposedly stops violence: then you get a different society, which every country that has a more compassionate penal system has shown to be the case.

    I also think it’s a rule that you aren’t separate from the actions that happen in your life, or the time and space “around” you, and that it’s a sad misrepresentation of what the human condition is to make out that there are such boundaries. With what’s called psychosis already, which is an emotional projection of issues a person when allowed to can learn to understand and reach in to a part of themselves that deals with how they respond to life, given memories, beliefs, etc; that changes what can’t be seen as physical yet because it is the future, and so is more objective than physical reality. I think thought is the same, and when you stop thinking you need the right to wield violence and that punishing people is a proper mind control method, then you stop making that part of reality. And then time doesn’t have to repeat itself trying to show you that you are investing in the cause and pushing the solution to the side, and in reality judging yourself; judging yourself as if you’re crazy that thought itself would make a difference, even with what happens physically or plays out in time.

    I don’t see thought or the mind as being so weak that it has to invest in violent control tactics, and looking for morality to justify violence gets in the way of peace rather than it creates it, and doesn’t really solve the problem but puts into ideology exactly what gets corrupted into what you say you are trying to prevent. Both sides believing violence is a means to an end. And the side actually respected as an authority having more the means to put an end to it, by not investing in violence as a means to an end, and not putting such ideology out to get corrupted.

    That there’s another way is what Jesus taught me himself, and it works.

  • Caroline: There isn’t a penal system on the planet that doesn’t disregard collateral damage, putting innocent people in jail, or as in the United Stated executing innocent people such as Troy Davis. I don’t think that’s a working system, and what Jesus truly taught is something different, which his parable was part of sharing. And that is a working system. It also deals with the cause rather than perpetuating the philosophy that causes the problem: the idea that violence is necessary to control people, and trauma or deterrent is a valid mind control method. A society that doesn’t breed such ideology won’t have what it’s trying to prevent excusing violence as if it’s a moral tool. That violence is a means to an end is then instead seen to be something to discard both for the “perpetrator” and the “means of defense.”

    Further more, when I share (in another blog, which you responded to Caroline) the fact that perhaps Jesus was homosexual and relates to me free to express it, or that his life would have been different had he something such as that to surrender to, such intimacy, you mention that the “Pope,” a man who perpetuates the erroneous pretentious idea that homosexuals are sinners (but you should love them), that he tells me that Jesus is madly in love with me. Oh. Really!?

    And then Jesus parable about the Good Samaritan gets turned into a discussion promoting the penal system rather than what it’s about, this in a blog about marketing. The Catholic Church – which in contrast to the DSM not anymore saying homosexuals have something wrong with them, still perpetuating such nonsense – and the penal system which arrests someone for walking around non violent but naked are excused and marketed then?

    The truth isn’t something that you can defend with violence, with excuses for punishing those that don’t follow it, because then it’s not truth anymore, it’s mind control. I already stated that. As moral as you think you are being about what you believe is necessary with violence, you can’t be defending the truth, and so you are not dealing with the real situation. You aren’t communicating to humanity, to any other human. You haven’t looked at what’s really going on. You haven’t addressed the causes. And you’re perpetuating – with a double edged sword – what causes the problem. You’re not relating to the person, and you’re not relating to the whole matrix that causes the problem. And you’re perpetuating it.

    And nothing can destroy the truth. Jesus wasn’t crucified, he was resurrected. And I REALLY don’t think he’s going back to saying we need the very institutions that put a death warrant on his teachings. For what? So we can “understand” his parable by warping it out of context?

    And as I said already, investing in the very system that allows people to be arrested, taken to the the asylum, and force treated, isn’t going to change what’s going on, but showing there’s another way yourself: that will. And letting go of what is in collusion with what doesn’t work will show you there’s another way. Saying that your life is in disarray because of that-system, and then promoting the very tools that keep it in place, doesn’t work.

    Trying to control other people using punishment is what fascist systems do, and criminals, and people that are offended that what works is robbing them of the idea that when they try to control another using punishment they are good, and just and better.

    I’m going to bow out of this discussion now and spend time with my “invisible” friend thanking him for being there. Someone who was able to direct me away from what doesn’t work to what does, and have even physical healing take place, although that’s not what it’s about, since that could be anything to show there’s another way.

  • I really don’t think that Jesus parable was about making sure the robbers get punished, in fact it was about the opposite.

    Punishment in reality is nothing more than a means of mind control, and the very reason you have a psychiatrical institution playing game theory with gain and loss, along with perceived punishment or loss when not going along with the program, and thus you have a bunch of people who don’t know what they are doing at all.

    Truth simply speaks for itself, and remains separate from needing such means to make it out to be the truth. You can’t punish someone to see the truth, that’s mind control, the truth speaks for itself, and has to otherwise it isn’t the truth. And if our whole society would be concerned about helping people who have been wounded, rather than getting points for it, or deciding for some reason they are undesirables, we’d have a different society, that understands trauma.

    There’s really no difference in logic for the robber or the people that are supposed to punish the robber, in that they both think that violence is a means to an end, only the robber might sooner find out it doesn’t work, since he or she doesn’t have societal backing for their behavior; and so might sooner question it. And then there’s the whole lack in society that caused the abandonment of people who become robbers, which is economic as well as the simple ideology society has about how you control a populace, which involves justified violence, and wars, and the rest of it: nurtured fear, discrimination,stereotyping and prejudice which then leaves a person unable to see how they might find what truly might otherwise be there for them, including thought.

    Instead of deciding who is supposed to help you, you might find that you don’t need an insurance to pay for the right helper, and you don’t need a
    “church” making you feel you are founded in your process, or any other institution, and that simply being human is enough. Rather than “they” are supposed to do it, so if they don’t everything is in a disarray.

    Or was the person that got hurt supposed to decide that the pharisees should help him, and then punish the robber, rather than seeing there’s something else that helps, which represents a whole other way of thinking?

    And when you show what works, you’re showing what the truth is, to say that needs defense through punishing those that don’t see that really means you’re trying to defend something else, something that isn’t the truth anymore, but an excuse for wanting to control others.

  • You’re balancing on a very thin line when you say the “doctors,” don’t spike someone with blood thinners. There are enough medications that aren’t good for your heart, and then there’s the neglect towards issues like diet, exercise, enough rest, true emotional health, giving someone the strength to feel they can get out of uncomfortable situations rather than “cope” and get sick or fight and get stressed out and sick.

    The present pandemic, which is all over the planet, and the whole political change of scenery; there are a whole list of things that presently kill more people than viruses, yet there’s nothing in comparison done about it. The first month of the pandemic more people died (in developed countries at least) because of the effects of sugar than the whole total so far of the pandemic, or something like that; and then you have the ALSO completely preventable problems in the developing country like food shortages etc..

    And we will never, as far as I know, have herd immunity to sugar, or to starvation.

    It’s more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in ways than it’s truly caring about your health.

  • I’m sorry, this: “We become scared of stuff that would help us, because of how it had been accepted, and the electric shock to our system when the whole arena of memories kicks in can be quite severe.”

    I meant to say we become scared of stuff that would help us, because of how it had NOT been accepted in our environment, whether socially or family or institutional of whatever. Stuff we tried to express and was met with weird discrimination. And it causes a lot of anxiety when those feelings come back, the electricity behind all the memories even. But you can learn to actually feel those feelings and feel safe in your own space, who you are, not how you’re supposed to respond.

    And it’s really hard when you just try to communicate something, and get the strange response from others that don’t want to accept the simplest thing. Caroline, you seem really positive, and it sounds like you wanted to simply share that you had found a place you feel at home at, this to the psychiatrist, but his response was truly bizarre, and truly paranoid and psychotic. And then psychotic becomes a strange word, because those who are labeled “psychotic,” actually really have been dis-inhibited from continuing to fit into a programming that doesn’t really work for them (or work for someone to be true to their humanity), but those labeling them are the ones that really would show the symptoms they are seeing in another. Fundamentalism is the real problem regarding anything that’s not reality based. It just makes no sense to deny what really statistically has lead to healing, the rest is all indoctrination, brainwashing. He’s the one that has a riff with reality, he needs to perhaps be deprogrammed. Getting rewards from the economic system doesn’t mean that your beliefs are reality based. But don’t you compromise the rest of your life trying to say things to him he would discriminate against, how you said you deal with it is great.

    But psychotic becomes a strange word, I don’t see it myself as something that has the properties of how it’s defined by the mental health system. And how they define it shows mostly more signs of what they call an illness than is the case in who they are diagnosing. And so I don’t really like to call them psychotic (the one’s doing the diagnosing) as non reality based as their thinking might be, because psychosis is something more sensitive, and reaches out into someone’s soul; the brainwashing that’s non reality based doesn’t do that, doesn’t have such sensitivity and doesn’t reach into someone’s soul, and it doesn’t give emotional wounds legroom to express themselves, neither does it give alternative insights that are necessary such legroom. It’s all backwards.

  • Heh, there’s a wonderful site https://www.mygoodhabits.com/ and its helped me.
    He would let you join without paying anything, have you no money, or just for $29.95 for three months, or $14.95 for one. That’s American dollars. He has a section called Emotional Healing where he shares a technique, and also has people who have followed the technique or he helps to follow it. It helped me incredibly finding out how I was disassociating from feelings that I never had been allowed to express in my youth, and those feelings were trying to give me guidance. You know, just a different way than the norm. But the discomfort when the feelings would reemerge when I needed them, when everything came into play, in how to deal with this “society,” with how to actually say anything in it (which you have gone into quite fully regarding knowing how to deal with what you describe). It might be like whatever you went to the psychiatrist for just needed a bit more space to NOT fit into society, or what another part of the mind controlled by fear thought was how things should be.

    We become scared of stuff that would help us, because of how it had been accepted, and the electric shock to our system when the whole arena of memories kicks in can be quite severe.

    I really don’t think you’re going to go into another psychosis, you seem too grounded for that, I think you will find that quiet inner voice, and even though it seems like there’s some great loss to stop responding to everything that’s what we’re supposed to believe life is about, it wouldn’t at all be a loss, and the peace there is resonant gentle and soothing instead of it being a loss or that it’s scary.

    I kept on getting “psychotic” when I drank too much coffee, realized that, but then somehow had a switch that I would start with too much coffee again (also because the “psychosis,” was expressing something of what I was trying to push away, and that needed to be expressed). That was when I really needed to just stop disassociating from feelings I had a reflex to push to the side, because they never had been accepted, it was like there was suddenly a blank space. I just hadn’t learned to trust those feelings, to let go like that. And it really is like what Jesus taught, because you just let go to something more gentle. And THAT was what balanced me out, NOT just trying to discipline myself to not drink coffee, because it wasn’t really about that, it was about seeing that there was something else, that I didn’t have to push those thoughts away.

    And so, it could just be that when you allow those feelings, even letting go of thinking you need to respond to the psychiatrist etc. that that’s what it’s about, not whether you need the drugs to not have whatever it’s called because of the withdrawal.

    And it sounds like the psychiatrist might be gaslighting you. There also are pill splitters, would you want to reduce your dose, and he wouldn’t find out. There would be nothing wrong with not telling him, even lying would he ask. It might be much more just a stage of relaxing to get off of the drugs than what you’re scared of. But above everything I would suggest you give yourself the time for some peace of your own, whatever calms you down. Without any guilt. When you get really upset don’t feel like you have to respond to the system at all, they only use that against you anyhow.

    Does this help to think that really the fear of getting off the drugs has to do with how it might bring up feelings you’re used to pushing away, and it’s more about accepting those feelings, to just feel them (whether they are good or bad), and then you can process them, and also let go of them? Everyone has this from their past, whether it’s family or society, that they weren’t allowed to express certain things, and so push those feeling to the side. And it could just be allowing yourself the space to just go into a space where you’re not trying to rationalize, but just not push the involuntary part that feelings move through away, like mindfulness or meditation. But it’s maybe more a conscious way of responding to reflexes at the moment…..

    I’m writing quite hurried right now, and will look back with more “time.” Or at least when I don’t feel so rushed with a number of things going on…..

  • Yes, I think we all think that, why has God done X, Y and Z to us, but maybe that’s the illusion. Maybe we’re more in control, and when we practice what I found in A Course in Miracles to help, that it’s really just shifting to something else that was there the whole time, and we were in control, and that’s how we learn.

    It’s really just a friendship with Jesus, understanding what he went through rather than making an object out of him, which is what I think the Catholic Church does too much, and I don’t think that’s completely fair to him. I can not agree with their stance on homosexuality, for example, or a list of other things in that category. There is a wonderful lady who was, and probably still is, Catholic her whole life. She had miracles start to happen after she visited Fatima, an itching in her fingers that when she touched people miracles would happen. People from all over the world came to see her, she was on Television, and yet the Catholic Church didn’t even acknowledge what was happening or let her give a healing get together in their church.Here is a wonderful blog her friend and facilitator has written, he passed away a few years ago http://leaholof.blogspot.com/ The Catholics left this nasty superstitious denial of her abilities https://www.catholicdoors.com/isit/isit05.htm I think Leaholof has retired now, though.

    I’m just trying to show how much there is of healing, and of stuff that the institutions as they are, and the powers that be, deny. And when a person has been forced to conform to all of that, and they start to wake up finding themselves in no man’s land, the psychiatric system would often sooner find them “psychotic,” then even have interest in finding out what’s truly going on, and what that has to do with an innate beautiful part of being human that’s trying to express itself.

    Psychiatry might say that Jesus had any of a number of things wrong with him. And would he try to express how difficult his life was, because of his nature, because of how he was persecuted, because miracles happened around him and people either denied it or wanted to exploit him mostly; I really don’t think psychiatry would understand hardly any of that. I don’t think he needed anti-depressants for example. And I don’t think he needed to be on dopamine antagonists because he thought he talked to God. And because he could sooth the minds and heal many of the people psychiatry says it has the right to treat, they would further more have problems with him.

  • I’m still puzzling about this, how to have made such a statement and to be clear about it, while changing the whole concept of Jesus. If one believes in reincarnation, which isn’t linear no one reincarnates in a body: there would be no reason to reincarnate were there not a multiplicity going on, was it instead linear. That’s like saying you can build a house without looking for the materials, in this case what gives time meaning, but if one believes in reincarnation then during the time Jesus had his short tragic life, he did see me, although I was a woman then, and there’s still a resonance there transcending the limitations of “THAT” time. That also alleviates Jesus of having to be an institution. He can simply be human.

    And why isn’t this allowed?

    There IS a whole other dimension to what it is to be human, and that’s so innate to what it is to be human that it doesn’t really allow people to be anything else, doesn’t make them one of the assembly of parts that go to make up what’s made out to be necessary to safeguard a territory (physical or mental); you can’t limit yourself to such a territory to begin with, you would never find the parts for the house, the house beyond time, the one that gives you space for life to have meaning.

    Why you have a soul.

    ALL of the non-reality-based stuff going on with “psychosis,” taps into that innate part of being human. When it tries to depict something the mind hasn’t quite grasped, whether it’s memories the conscious mind doesn’t know is effecting it emerging in supposedly non real scenarios trying to make a safe connection to realizing the memory, or the spiritual concepts that come out of transcending such trauma actually showing what’s real about life rather than defending something you could never be, or the imaginative insights that have to come in from the edge of the Universe or what’s called left field, or simply the need to dis-inhibit oneself beyond silly pretentious rules everyone follows just because everyone does (for their ego) rather than they truly make any sense, or instincts trying to emerge giving guidance for life involving everything I’ve already listed… all of that goes on with “psychosis.” There isn’t a time when I got “psychotic,” that something didn’t happen that might be called impossible, or metaphysical, a miracle, or supernatural, exactly because my lack of worldly “reason,” allowed it. Had I been sane it wouldn’t have had the legroom.

    There IS a whole other part of being human, so human that it’s not going to adapt to such limitations as “sanity” says it needs. And what’s really insane is trying to be that, something that can survive in such limitations. Because you’re making yourself out to be something impossible, and you’re not. What’s impossible is that such limitations exist, what’s called impossible: non-reality-based.

    There’s no need to be scared of it, just because if you stop pushing it away it will make sense.

  • Just to summarize this post.

    When a person hasn’t been given the environment to get in touch with their own instincts, their own feelings, their own insights especially when they were supposed to see thing differently, and often were forced to not express themselves or met with derision and chastising along with other methods of traumatizing someone into not expressing themselves; when those feelings come back up, which they are meant to, then it has already become a conditioned reflex to push them away. And the real discomfort from the feelings come from that, not from the feelings themselves. This can be the same way with feelings in general that we don’t like and want to go away. Most of the discomfort could be from not feelings those feelings. Much, and too much of our whole society also is based on pushing those feelings away, the whole economic, consumer oriented and social setup, as well as what’s even called entertainment seems to often mostly be to give means for people to have a way to push those feelings to the side. And then there’s the anger, the depression and the feelings of inadequacy when we don’t have the means to push those feelings, feelings we need to feel, to the side. It could just be the feeling not to have to take sides. A more quite mindset.
    And it’s really quite a simple thing to help a person realize when they are doing this, rather than to strengthen whatever image they are supposed to have of themselves, and what’s running them. Simple anxiety for example, is treated in a way as if one should get rid of it, and yet what happens when you just allow yourself to feel it without responding to it? What if when you allow yourself to process it that it then goes away?
    I think there are a whole array of inner voices that are meant to give guidance that can help us would we just allow ourselves the space to feel stuff we think we need to push to the side. And there’s no loss in not being part of a world that would make us out to be crazy would we not push those insights to the side. There’s lots of stuff that happens, amazing stuff that otherwise wouldn’t be allowed to, would we expect life to be sane.

  • Does what psychiatry says psychosis is have much to do with it? Funny, you know someone that’s actually, I don’t know, learned a language, and can speak it with the natives, or has learned to swim, or has been to a country or a city and knows the layout, the map; it gets awfully strange when those people (the ones that have been psychotic, and namely the ones that have been through it and are over it, understand it) they have to depend on people that haven’t been to the country, that can’t speak the language, that can’t move around in it, that HAVEN’T been psychotic and recovered. You depend on those people to have anything you say be considered valid. That’s pretty strange. Added to this on is talking about something that you can’t just simply go to and map out, speak the language or move around in, because you have to have gone through it, otherwise it remains sort of invisible beyond what the psychiatrists make out of it, and then while really not having the experience to know what’s going on, they call you non-reality-based. And they really can’t know without having been there, and they’d have to really instead listen to those that have, it doesn’t at all work any other way.

    What is a paranoid schizophrenic supposed to be when the person labeling him is paranoid to see it for what allows it to heal, or exist at all to lead towards healing or insight or anything at all that’s worth mentioning (that it’s not a permanent chemical imbalance), and refuses to be realistic about this, and then dowses the person’s response with “medications” (said to be treating a chemical imbalance but scientifically causing one) which prevents them (the “patient”) from having a healthy enough brain to figure it out; thus not only preventing the psychiatrist from knowing what’s on, but the “patient” from figuring it out themselves!?!?!?!?!?

    I’ve had years, or lives trying to figure this out, to let it be and have enough room for it.

    Just my own “stuff.” I had found out that cigarettes, that when I started smoking, I’d end up in an “episode,” something I knew was non violent, but scared other people, and I knew that psychiatric drugs wouldn’t help. So I stopped smoking, but was quite shocked to see that I got more unsettled in an “episode,” and years went by, lots of social betrayal and attempts to exploit me while I wasn’t “psychotic,” which pretty much explained the “psychosis,” or the need to be in a place where people wouldn’t find me fit for their society. And then I noticed that I would have started drinking a copious amount of coffee when “psychotic,” and knew this, and stopped. But there was this weird switch going on that after awhile I’d just start drinking coffee again, and have an “episode.” I mean I had kept myself from drinking coffee, and would be fine, and then….. But then I ran into the teachings of how much we take on habits to disassociate from feelings, and in my case I found they were really just the feelings, the instincts, the insights, the instincts I had as a child but was never allowed to express, and when they would re-emerge needing leg room after awhile, the discomfort, the feelings of being oppressed would get me to start drinking too much coffee, too much to be “sane” anyhow. And it worked actually.

    It’s a language, when “psychotic” it’s your unconscious speaking to you however it can, symbolism, scenarios possibly called non reality based rather than fictional, which might still be what it is, which is a human need, given the amount of it in novels, myths etc., or however it expresses itself, because sometimes because of the dis-inhibition quite otherwise impossible things happen, even metaphysical or miraculous things. And so even when I could have been called non reality based in my thinking, this was beyond objective reality, because it involved my reflexes, and thus the future. The future not being something that’s EVER objective in such a fashion, and only exists in context to your reflexes. And so there are emotional wounds, and trauma, but the psychosis is REALLY just trying to show you that there is a language that can help you understand that, understand your reflexes and change your life, and so it’s not really so much about trauma, as about the miracle that it is to be human, and that we all can transcend, and even forgive trauma, that there’s a language teaching us that. Who we really are.

    I wouldn’t ever turn towards coffee like I did, I didn’t even know why when I had. But the simple knowledge – Charlie Goldsmith in his mygoodhabits.com site helped with this – that I had feelings I was pushing to the side, this helped me understand why I had such a reaction, so instead I give legroom to those feelings. They really before that were just sort of blank space. And it’s amazing how much control we really have over our lives when we simply switch to something a little bit more subtle, a little more detached, show a little non attachment, and just allow things, even when at first it felt uncomfortable.

    It’s really insane, there’s supposed to be all of this “guilt,” for behaving a certain way that doesn’t fit in with social norms. The most ridiculous rules, and the rub is that everyone (well not “everyone” just the mob) they believe that adhering to those rules gives them pride, and without that they think they’d fall apart, and so they wouldn’t even know what they’re thinking anymore, they become so programmed. Run around outside naked, and feel the air against your skin, and the sun, and you’re a maniac that gets arrested and drugged up, because of it. Oh, but the whole arsenal of social control tactics, all the way to torture methods and how to blow up all human life on the planet at least 20 times with nuclear weapons to make sure the enemy is dead, this is all highly funded. EXTREMELY frustrating. And then there’s all of this privilege to be violent, to have a whole policing system when you obey the rules, as if that works to create a society. All of it was so confusing to me, that a completely “non reality based” voice had to turn me away from who knows what, like someone so confused they don’t end up being hit by a car for want of not seeing what they are doing, or where they are going. That I would believe ANY of it makes any sense, or is a means to any end at all.

    An African Violet had just blossomed, the color magenta that’s actually not in our color spectrum https://www.biotele.com/magenta.html our mind fills it in. Whether it was the color of the violet or the blossoming, but the MOMENT I saw it I heard a voice: “SHUTUP we’re praying,” and it was so apparent, like a spring that had been let lose, that I argued with it. But it did get me to change course, and even a physical healing took place, something I’m still getting to know, because you can feel the difference of letting yourself get riled up or letting go, of actually forgiving, not buying into guilt. But I argued with the voice, thought it was Jesus, told him that he might have stayed around a bit longer, since he said that the flowers that are thrown on the compost heap to be burned are more splendid than Solomon’s robe, and yet we are worth more than that. Making such a remark when one sees a beautiful flower. He had friends in the Mediterranean he could have gone to visit rather than sticking around with the end we all know was the result. And who’s to say he doesn’t agree with me, since that’s PAST history. And he’s been with me at a level of intimacy I think that gave him another place to surrender to, but that’s all psychotic. Crazy. How dare I say such things. A voice popping out of nowhere because I saw a flower.

    I don’t know, psychosis, fiction, imagination. Why do we have fiction? I had gone to a miracle crusade, years ago, with someone who took me there that I didn’t know was so paranoid. Since has become a social worker, anyone surprised? And during the “crusade” I found myself, my mind placed me that is, in a movie where there’s love making going on at the end of the scene. How does this happen that after seeing a movie you end up inside of it, which I think is the idea the whole time upon watching it, a place to give subjunctive place, to gain perspective, to go beyond your limitations, physical or conceptual. AT first it was just someone that ends up as a ghost later on getting the other person not to be so serious. Something I’ve found out since, being that with creativity you have to, you can’t keep at something without letting it go, and then it speaks for itself. Going through my day I would find whatever I’d been working on take a new turn. Working on a musical composition a light would go on in my head, just like the voice, and I’d hear the music take a new turn, but that was when I’d stopped trying to do anything consciously. I might be making good in the kitchen. So here I am, with what I feel is Jesus trying to make love to me, and I didn’t know you can’t just tell another person that, and made the mistake of telling someone who then called up my father trying to convince him I was going crazy because I was talking about making love to Jesus. Mind you this same person (now a social worker) bragged about coming down to the living room of where she was staying in college, and being greeted with a whole assortment of guys who she says she had all made dates with, not caring the amount, but no, one can’t talk about anything as decent as Jesus making love to you.

    Years pass, I had to get away from that person and her “spiritualist,” channeling friends, and turned to a few true healers, got to know that better, studied A Course in Miracles a lot at times, and then actually had the new miracle, thanks to his voice, and found that no that wasn’t crazy at all from the beginning of back then, that perhaps Jesus really DID need a place he could go and simply surrender and completely be himself, and that was part of the miracle. REALLY! Because I had had a whole shift, physical healing, but then had to actually look at how it happened, that it was me taking a turn away from responding to frustration, and then, the “physical problem” slightly coming back, I had to surrender to everything that I thought would happen if I wasn’t “vigilant” in warding away what would happen if I wasn’t, and the physical problem went away, because I wasn’t trying to defend myself from it. Instead surrendering, and even then finding I could give Jesus a place to surrender to….

    And I wonder if this is crazy enough, to talk about being put inside a movie (what actually is imagination or fiction, or why do we have movies, and what’s acting), to hear a voice (and no I didn’t read it in the bible or even A Course in Miracles) and have it have meaning rather than it’s a hallucination, and at that a really earthy voice from someone that is supposed to be a holy icon, and physical healing, and everything beyond formalism (I’m male by the way, not that I was during the time Jesus was on the earth, I understand, and he had seen me then too)….

    But this changes everything, when the space to give legroom to emotions turns into a whole other kind of healing, something that’s been suppressed when it doesn’t follow social constructs of control, when it doesn’t feed those controlling the economic system, when it doesn’t give authority to those worshiping what they can control of the physical and try to indoctrinate people to be fearful of anything else a bit less tangible to their controls. Giving a “psychotic” person space to know what their mind is trying to express might create such havoc for “society,” that it’s basic tenets might have to be questioned, is why whoever has been through it, which is the only way one can find out by listening to them, that it’s made out to be something else by those that can lock you up and force drug you!?

    It might just be “crazy” like the rest of life, was anyone paying any attention at all to it. They might notice it’s not quite following their rules.

    JESUS!

    CHRIST!

    Thank God it’s not following their rules.

  • Here’s an article, listing how many Native Americans are killed by the police, and most of the cases involve “wellness checks”

    https://inthesetimes.com/features/native_american_police_killings_native_lives_matter.html

    And sadly, there’s absolutely no talk about how treatment with psychiatric drugs cause, after an initial period where “symptoms” are suppressed, more relapsing, more disability, loss of life expectancy, and than I think one can add paranoia against someone expressing that such treatment doesn’t work, with then the erroneous idea as if more of it is needed and should be forced, or we’re all in danger.

  • This is of course a very serious question. Perhaps the most important thing is that when a person has been given the right to feel suicidal, and been allowed to spill out their life: to talk about why, to experience another person actually listening, that does the most to make them feel as if there’s reception somewhere for their feelings, rather than nowhere. And then they can feel how they feel without believing they need to commit suicide to escape from those feelings, or do other destructive things to themselves. I don’t know what asking a person how they would commit suicide would amount to exactly, whether that would actually help them spill their guts, unless that actually involves allowing the person to express how desperate, and/or abandoned they feel, or hopeless; and that then they find a place that their feelings are accepted; but that depends on what’s behind the question, not the question in itself. If a person would go so far as to have had such thoughts, and then share them is the other person asking them how they would do such a thing capable of actually having empathy with what kind of desperation, what kind of hopelessness, what kind of abandonment would lead a person to start entertaining such strategies. And would the person asking the question be able to give someone the space to feel they could freely explore and express what happened in their life, or what’s happening in their life, or what they are scared might happen in their life to lead to it? Would they even be able to fathom there are very legitimate reasons that when a person is allowed and given the legroom to express them makes them feel less abandoned? They very tone of someone’s voice asking such questions could lead to the person answering feelings there’s reception or not, even thought the person asking the questions thinks he or she can hide their thoughts. And I also wonder whether that’s in reality the best addendum to; “are you suicidal.” It’s sounds like it could be rather clinical objective and cold. And might add up to more cold responses, such as lies about drugs that are made out to help according to information that’s highly tainted if not outright lies. Or promoting answers that the person who has the feelings of desperation already has experienced as not working, rather than truly being empathetic beyond thinking one knows the answers.

    I have to add another personal story here, that’s quite bizarre. When I as having difficulty in my life, and I think this was before I ever was diagnosed (thirty years or so ago), I just was having difficulty, and quite despondent. It’s a long story. It actually involves psychic senses, there was something (someone) I knew would come into my life, out of nowhere, and it didn’t end up being what I thought it would be; and then I got involved with the whole plethora of nonsense behind the techniques of being spiritual (or not spiritual by trying to exploit it) that I had been taught. I was obsessed with trying to find out why this person came into my life, particularly what it had to do with past lifetimes. And before that a very accurate psychic about petty future events no one needs to know could supply such information, but he had become too exploitative of me so I had been forced to get away from him; but there I was still thinking I needed to know things I didn’t, and would sit on my parents porch smoking and drinking coffee the whole night, quite angry determined to know this secret information. And there was all sorts of other social betrayal going on, especially with organizations making themselves out to be spiritual. Anyhow. Finding myself doing stuff out of frustration that I knew wasn’t good for me (no I didn’t really think that smoking the whole night and drinking coffee was good for me) I wondered where to turn, and I thought about calling a suicide line, actually telling them I WASN’T suicidal, but that I was concerned because I was doing things I knew were unhealthy. NOT a good place to turn. They talked to me quite a bit, even listening to the whole scenario of stuff that could be called psychotic, but of course with no ability to relate to what it represented in reality; no real ability to relate to what was going on with me as emotional truth that was seeking development so I could understand what it represented, how maybe fears had gotten tangled up with my reflexes and perceptions, and if understood could change my reflexes and my future, or maybe even the understanding of “psychosis,” in general. Then they invited me to come to talk go them, and I mistakenly did that. One of the most bizarre scenes in my life. In ending up upstairs somewhere, in what seemed to be some kind of tower, and trying to talk to someone the phone kept ringing connecting people up to the wrong number, which I wondered whether it was some metaphysical warning going on (how much stuff that didn’t belong but that rang in their mind concerning indoctrination would they not see was a mis-connection while they were judging me?), and of course the whole conversation added up to nothing much, or not more than they were pretty much telling me they were concerned about me and wanted me committed; but when I told them I had a sort of therapist, they called her, and she told then I was OK, that I lived with my parents, that I had support or so, that it wasn’t necessary to commit me. That was just a therapist my mother had been paying for me to talk to about my dreams, mostly. But they dropped it. Basically my life could have ended there, had I been committed, as vulnerable as I was, just because I thought they might actually have helpful input.

    AGAIN a whole bizarre thing involving negating what’s really going on, even if it’s physical involving substance one is imbibing. There wasn’t ONE mention of whether drinking coffee the whole night might be causing me to get paranoid. Instead, there was effort in seeing whether committing me would help, where I would have been inflicted with more substances messing up my mind, and end up not being able to chose myself regarding would I imbibe or not anymore, NOR to be given any true information so informed consent was going on, but actually did I KNOW the truth about psychiatric drugs, would I express that, that would be seen as a danger like in any fascist regime or fundamentalism like in religion when someone speaks against their ideology.

    I somehow got out of there, and actually called back there, and a really bizarre woman, to whom I had mentioned I wrote poetry, with a voice sounding like it was stuck on some pre-fabricated synthetic intelligence channel, with appropriate sing-song inflection and intonation to sound concerned about effect or pretense rather than truth – sort of like the butterflies, flowers, happy people smiling at each other lilting happily through life you see in drug commercials, or for the latest new and improved flavor in junk foods – she actually tried to convince me that the “medications” would help me write poetry, and that she was “concerned’ about that.

    Just like the Messiah of Handel on Lithium, or anti-psychotics they “know” would be an improvement. Why would that be?

    The local asylum out fit here, called “Pine Rest,” of all things, which makes me wonder whether that’s more appropriate for a mortuary, since it talks of “rest,” as in put to death and bury that annoying part of yourself society doesn’t give you easy points for giving legroom, they actually had on television paintings of Van Gogh, and music of Beethoven, and said they both had mental illnesses, and their lives would have been improved with “medications.”

    And they didn’t even mention that they must have built a time machine to accomplish and prove that.

    I didn’t even call them up and ask them about their time machine.…

    “How is your time machine doing? I want to meet Beethoven and Van Gogh!”

    Miracles happen…

  • 30-Watt lightbulb this story isn’t even unusual, in fact when closely looked at, there are elements of psychiatric authorities or concerned citizens displaying this kind of corruption and paranoia in most if not all cases involving incarceration, diagnosis etc. All because they think there’s some danger, and are so sure of it that they feel free to lie, distort and manipulate through strategical untruths what’s going on. All the way from the basis of whether they are dealing with a chemical imbalance to a person’s behavior to begin with.

    I had a friend, who since had committed suicide 12 years ago, who was committed to an asylum, with such lies that when I passed by the whole chase scene, and the police were at her house, and if I simply greeted her (she was outside on her steps) while her “friends” were “informing” the police about stuff, that a police officer told me if I didn’t move on I would be arrested. When I asked why, he said I would be arrested for disrupting an investigation. So, I went home and called non emergency dispatch to tell them that her “friends” had trespassed into her house to call her case manager, after scaring her so badly that she had run away from them and her house. Of all things non emergency dispatch told me that she had been taking her clothes off in public. I had been with her when her friends scared her, and after she took off, at first trying to get away on my bike which was locked and clamping down on the pedals that wouldn’t move being locked with such fright that she ripped her Achilles tendon, and then she had run off; the first thing that one of her “friends” said to me was: “she’s running around naked.” Afterwards, I found out that what dispatch told me, and what her friend determined she was doing, that that wasn’t going on at all, and hadn’t been. She hadn’t been taking her clothes off, and neither had she been running around naked. But And if I simply was around without such paranoia I was interfering with an “investigation.”

    OK!

    Well, and then her Achilles tendon having been ripped, and needing attention, which expressed itself by there being swelling up to her knee while she was in the asylum, and that not being looked at although she was in a wheel chair consequently (apart from for fun that she in the asylum allowed visitors to scoot around in wheel chairs that were just sitting there not being used, and then the next time we visited the workers being panicked that anyone might be using them and had been told to be wary), no one cared to really find out what kind of a physical wound she had which was why she was in a wheel chair, and by the time she got out her Achilles tendon was ruined for life, and she couldn’t walk around without that disability.

    And there are really vulnerable people that already have been made terrified of behaviors they don’t understand themselves, behavior that in contrast to the paranoia against them are completely non violent, and yet they end up thinking that such paranoia is logical, or they just give up even trying to refute any of the lies, as little as one can get people to question the ideology of a fascist system.

    I’m glad you somehow got out of it. Being in an asylum because you wanted to kill a cat you don’t own, and then not getting the treatment you needed because of an infection, that’s something they might cover up as well, if you hadn’t survived.

    I’ve had people trying to say that my thoughts were non reality based, while they made up more stuff about me that was completely not reality based, nor would they question it, the same as any officiated paranoia. There was one yoga teacher with parks and recreation who was also a social worker, and I actually heard a voice tell me to just stay away from her, and not ask questions, although I was really just interested in yoga. I had noticed how alarmist she might respond if I simply asked any question like anyone might, so I just ignored it, which I shouldn’t have. She thought I was in love with her (I’m gay, she couldn’t do anything for me, plus I found her repulsive and coy, and was quite a bit amused at how pretentious she was, and how she was trying to create following with such artifice). I couldn’t really make out what was going on, and was for a couple of days having thoughts that might be called “psychotic,” although I already saw after two days they weren’t what I thought, and since I completely understand the symbolism. But because I was “psychotic,” she could make me out to be someone that might get violent, and she got a restraining order, and when I simply wanted to correct the whole list of whatever it was (lies, paranoia, incorrect assumption) that amount to non reality based paranoias, she actually, after propping herself up in her chair and taking on the kind of sing song voice people take on trying to convince you they have the answer, said to the judge:
    “I know, I know, he doesn’t hear voices, he sees things that aren’t there, it’s non reality based.”

    After I had heard a voice telling me to just completely stay away from her. And to tell you the truth, I didn’t really have it through that people like that existed, and how completely totally indoctrinated and brainwashed they can be.

    If I went out the same door everyone else did, which I ended up usually doing all myself because everyone else had left. I had to put the clothes over my jogging outfit back on, and her yoga didn’t really calm me down and had to rest a bit, so I most of the time was the last person out the door when she and everyone else had left. But if I ever went out the same door anywhere near the time she did, even though I didn’t nothing but go straight to my bike and leave, then I was following her to her car. And mind you, she would always in a coy voice wish me a good night. I didn’t know she had friends walking her to her car because she thought I was in love with her, which I wasn’t.

    And there’s a whole list of other presumptions. And lies.

    I had mentioned that her ghetto blaster that she played music on from a CD had one speaker that was giving out static, and she pulled a face as if to denigrate parks and recreation saying it was just for them, and she didn’t want to buy a new one. That turned into me supposedly saying I didn’t like her music (I had never said anything about whatever music she played). She had also mentioned while talking to someone else while I was slowly getting my stuff together to leave, that she had bought a bunch of chocolate, and I had recently found out that putting coco powder in your oatmeal gives you the same resonant buzz as chocolate without the sugar, and when I tried to mention this to her having overheard something she said, she tried to make out I was mad at her for eating too much sugar, and also said she didn’t know I paid such attention to what she said (apparently she was supposed to watch out with sugar) and then tried to make out that because I listened “intently” to what she was saying that I was in love with her. In all honestly I was quite a bit amused, like when you’re reading a story and there’s a really bizarre pretentious character that lives their life quite different that yours, and you would read the description. It WASN’T because I was in love with her at all.

    And then she started groaning right in front of me (I had to sit in the front of the class because I didn’t wear my glasses to do yoga, so otherwise couldn’t see) about how she had just had to have vaccine shots because of her job in a hospital. I asked her if she was a nurse, she told me she was a social worker, and then I simply asked whether vaccines really helped as much as they say they do. And mind you, unbeknownst to me, she was getting herself all riled up about stuff that wasn’t going on at all, which I don’t think is good for anyone’s immune system. And she had started the conversation talking to someone on my other side, right through me, and then said I rudely started taking part in a conversation, as if again I’m not supposed to have ears, or even being aware of what she’s going on about means I have dangerous desires to intrude into her life. I couldn’t simply say you have to look at the other side of the argument in a resonant calm tone, or she got all spiked and prickled and annoyed like the spring on a mouse trap had sprung and said: “those who aren’t taking vaccines are making the rest of us sick,” after she said she wasn’t going to have a whole conversation about it. And then I supposedly said that all vaccines were bad, which I hadn’t said, I had mentioned some evidence against vaccines that I had been e-mailed to a parks and recreation person, because I wasn’t taking yoga classes to be told I have to be a consumer of drug company methods, and this is when I mentioned the ghetto blaster where upon they bought her a new one, themselves, because I brought it up, and they said maybe she was scared to ask for on. And I still don’t have any determined stand point one way or the other concerning vaccines, but I look at the other side of it.

    And mind you, if I paid attention one way I had devious desires for her, but then she also mentioned that I didn’t do anything she said, during class, which wasn’t true. During one class I had a back ache and couldn’t to maybe 20 percent of the poses, so I didn’t do them, instead watched her to see how they were done, this turned into me supposedly having my head resting on the wrist articulated on my upper arm, and watching her 80 percent of the class.

    I also got during that time bad eczema, and couldn’t ride my bike to class because the whether was getting colder and I’d have to wear gloves and my hands would sweat which was like torture to the skin because of the eczema, but might take the bus, which I couldn’t because the bike rack was full (I did ride my bike the half mile or so to the bus stop), when I didn’t show up for class SHE ACTUALLY said that I was resentful that there was a disagreement about vaccines, so I didn’t come to class. So, I actually couldn’t not be in class, and couldn’t be in class, and her assumptions could be magical telepathic insights rather than reality based, because she had to again make out that there was something going on which wasn’t going on, all to sooth her brain washing. I don’t know HOW I didn’t go to class because I had resentments, when having tried to get to class I couldn’t get there. Did I have some supernatural control over whether the bike rack was full, and did those bikes materialize out of nowhere, or the whole bus or what? I meant that’s pretty amazing powers on my part. If I WAS resentful, and that’s not why I showed up, I would have had to be able to manifest all of that to express such resentments.

    And that’s just some of it. I could go on and on and on.

    And her whole report read like stuff highschool girls would make up about someone they thought was weird, and this from a social worker. She actually said that I was “creeping” them out. I was just calmly getting ready to leave, and consequently doing that with no interest in her whatsoever but a yoga teacher.

    In fact the stuff that they called psychotic was exactly expressing that. I have a spirit friend who was Mozart’s mother, and who had a really bad childhood, given HER mother. And then Mozart’s mother’s father had lost everything at one point. I somehow, started picking up that stuff like that was going on given investments, and when you invest in the wrong stuff you can lose everything (reality even);while at this time I didn’t know all of the above mentioned extreme paranoia was going on (was being invested in), something so extreme I was disassociating from it, unfortunately. And the whole Hollywood like chase scene that was going on all fired by adrenaline as if there was some imminent danger that really wasn’t there at all. And this or that resonance from another time made me think something symbolic was going on involving Hollywood, and I could go into it more in detail, but it doesn’t matter because it’s subjunctive and could be any of who knows what kind of stuff dreams are made out of, something more objective than anything tangible in the physical because it involves reflexes and determines the future.

    Anyhow, I went on about this here, also

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/08/blaming-mentally-ill-is-hate-speech/#comment-159669

    What did I make up?

    Back then, what I referred to there was stuff going on like there is now, only it wasn’t the drug companies, it was the Catholic Church taking over the economic system, invading and controlling government, people’s lives. There were harmonics of that going on, and I couldn’t differentiate, if there was any necessary difference to see, you see.

    And there was even a sense of they know psychically what’s going on, and try to scare you, which is what I thought was going on, that the whole media machinery (Hollywood) was doing that, and I could go into stuff Hollywood is lying about or the image games they play, and actual actors coming into my life because I had talked about memories of being the dancer whose name this ID on this site carries, and it’s a big topic for actors, quite a few having played “mentally ill” people while someone actually have gone through it wouldn’t be hired by Hollywood, which already brings out exploitation.

    There was a violin maker, during that time when the Catholic Church was taking over, named Guarneri Del Gesu. And he would go to a Tavern where he heard stories about the stuff going on. And there was during this time a Goodwill store that I went to where spirit seemed to be telling me that a lady working there had also been the one at the Tavern back then, the one handing out drinks and such, possibly the owner. And she ALSO had started acting paranoid, anyhow, it gets complicated because the extremely grim lady who worked at a Goodwill store… and I had seen her son at one point there, and it looked like he was working on the candy machine outside of the yoga studio; and then the male bathroom was locked. I had to use the other bathroom, and that had become symbolic enough.

    And so I thought that the Goodwill lady, and the lady in the Tavern, that her son who I had seen was somehow connected with Hollywood trying to intimidate me that they had connections, and somehow could get into the workings in my life (could get one of their agents into the candy machine outside of the yoga studio), and I was supposed to be intimidated. Someone from Parks and Recreation actually suggested to call the administration of the school that the class was in (it was at night time when no one was in that school), but I actually know that when there’s such stuff going on that marketing agents would try to get as much going on (prattle blither and chatter) in talk about it, just to turn the whole thing around using the gossip for a marketing scheme for whatever, and suppressing the incomfortable truth. More chase scenes, more chatter about some evil, more magnifying social phobias that people are left allowed to go on about rather than about being human, so I tried to explain that to the man from Parks and Recreation who wasn’t intelligent enough to know what I was talking about, and then later mentioned that he didn’t know what I was talking about at all, which he said to others evaluating me rather than being honest enough towards me that I might have explained it to begin with. I would have been happy to hear there wasn’t such a spooky thing going on as a brainwashing organization trying to intimidate me that they could get an agent to being doing stuff to the candy machine outside the yoga studio, while the male bathroom was locked (which was supposed to have a symbolic meaning to it); which I figured out two days later (without calling others who would have thought I was crazy), but then it was too late. And it brought on enough paranoia to get me away from all of it, actually. And you would think both sides would know better, people from Goodwill, or a yoga teacher, especially a yoga teacher.

    I was trying to make a point about investing in such stuff because I was wondering whether that yoga teacher had been the father of my spirit friend (who made bad investments and lost everything), only to realize she was more like the mother, and in trying to communicate any of that it was quite misinterpreted as well. Even like investing in the drug companies (psychiatric drugs) to make a bunch of money, if you would, you’ve lost the truth, and that’s not going to change for it either. Beyond that inciting fear in such a way that intimidation is more important than the truth, and if you win then again you’ve lost.

    I don’t have eczema anymore, by the way, and I don’t end up drinking so much coffee to try to escape away from feelings that I think cause me discomfort (which then end up manifesting like a dream state symbolically, and could be labeled as psychotic), feelings as a child I wasn’t encouraged to feel free to express, and that’s just basic intelligence, and spiritual; so I wouldn’t have this whole calvacade, this whole potpourri, this whole assortment of things I hadn’t sorted out.

    But no, I never was a dangerous schizophrenic at all, I think the dangerous paranoia lies quite rigidly denied on those making out there’s a danger that’s not there.

    But again coffee is a dopamine re-uptake inhibitor, like ADHD medications, and anti-psychotic drugs (for “schizophrenia”) are drugs blocking the dopamine from being able to do it’s work (which actually causes dopamine hyperactivity again because the body then makes more of it, said to be the cause of psychosis); and I don’t think that a re-uptake inhibitor and an anti-psychotic doing all of that messing around with dopamine is in any way going to fix things, let alone that the “science” reported about it all is highly untrue.

    And a lot of people never get a chance to sort any of this out, by some miracle I have.

  • Neesa, if you’re interested in spiritual (or metaphysical) healing, if you want to find real grounded energy in that genre, maybe you might try Charlie Goldsmith. He has had a show called The Healer where he somehow heals people, not to draw attention to himself, but because that’s possible, that there are people born with such a gift, and that should be acknowledged rather than not. He hopes that other people won’t have to go through what he went through, having such a gift. He doesn’t himself get any money for it, because early on in life, when he found he had such an ability, he decided to start his own companies so that he could heal people without asking for money. His gift is simply something that started happening, not something he decided to do; and then he talks about how the first response of people is “that’s been proven to be fraud,” and he jokes that’s the starting point (along with saying it’s pretty rough, while laughing about it), and then he wants to say, just give me a moment of your time and I’ll show otherwise, which he has, and you can see on his show. For a little bit of money you can watch it online several places, and I think it’s completely worthwhile. For ten dollars I bought it on prime video via Amazon, and can watch it anywhere with a computer access. I actually showed some of it to my “therapist” who absolutely loved it. He then also has a facebook site with many videos you can watch, and on many of his healing videos talks about emotional healing. And how in reality we try to push aside feelings, and the discomfort we feel, that we associate with the feeling, is actually us pushing them away. Because we weren’t allowed to feel them growing up, because they don’t fit with the concept of ourselves our ego has concocted, because because. And he talks bout how we take on habits to avoid those feelings, like junk food, like smoking, like all sorts of things, and yes, like Xanax and other psychiatric drugs.

    He also has a website called my good habits https://www.mygoodhabits.com/ also something he gets no money from, he only asks a little membership fee, if you can pay it but then also if you can’t you can request it for free, but he needs money to be able to run the website. He has other people come in there to give good advice, and the Internet site, along with all of the rest of stuff, like protection from hackers, costs money. There he talks more about his emotional healing techniques. He also has offered a free membership to that site at times for anyone to try it out, and did when the current pandemic had started, but you would have had to apply for that sometime in the month April, which would have lasted for a month. He has a big bulk mailing list whenever he does a live healing on facebook, and that he also pays for himself, mentioning that it’s 750 dollars a month.

    Charlie has helped me more than any therapist, because he simply helps you feel your feelings, he’s not offering some unrealistic escape through who knows what (analyses, drugs, some Utopian community more enlightened than the other, the right to be a victim etc.). And just accepting feelings, I thought, is what music is all about. THAT’S quite different than what so often goes on in a professional setting, where the teacher feels free to get sarcastic if they don’t like something, get really offended that someone doesn’t do things according to his or her ideology; and makes that ideology out to be more important than what music really is about, what it’s true worth comes from.

    When Charlie has metaphysically healed people, the responses are quite something, you hear things like: “What the bleeped-out,” then there’s a moment pause and another bleeped-out, or you hear: “that’s freaky, who are you,” or “that’s weird,” or “I’m just weirded out,” what you hear the most is: “that’s crazy,” Well, there you have it….. because something “non-reality-based” happened according to so many people.

    What helped me is becoming aware of what I did when I was disassociating from feelings that wouldn’t go away, no matter how much I had an unconscious reflex to just do whatever when push came to shove, and the momentum had brought them back. One of the things would be drinking way too much coffee, which did make me “psychotic,” although even then the scenarios in the “psychosis,” depicted emotional wounds that if I understood them I could let go of rather than keeping them tangled up in my reflexes, which AGAIN breaks down the idea of reality based or not, because if you can change your reflexes, you change your future, which is more objective than anything tangible to people’s idea of reality based or not. But allowing myself to feel those feelings I would have otherwise tried to push away, that gave perspective, even on whether the “psychosis,” was crazy or not.

    And now music really is meant to do that too. All the arts are. But that’s not how they are taught is it? They’re made out to be a commodity, a consumption. They’re quite often made out to be more something you do to avoid your feelings, and make yourself “feel” a certain way (like chocolate would, or cheese cake, or a cigarettes, or drugs or having more money etc.) But that’s not really feeling.

    People are scared of anything that happens by itself, like say: “psychosis.” Or beyond that imagination itself when it points out what people are trying to avoid seeing. What their feelings might tell them were they given the chance to.

  • Fiachra, I don’t think things are the way the might seem. Given this quote from review of his book.

    “Francis recognizes the vital role of proper pharmacologic treatment, emphasizing that the combination of medication, talk therapy, the practicing of coping skills as a way of life, and belief in something greater is what has enabled him to grow and thrive.”

    And this quote from his article above: “My trials with schizophrenia have taught me that my perceptions carry no resemblance to the item we refer to as reality.”

    Emotional reality IS reality, and in fact it’s the stuff of fantasy or imagination the same as fiction. Fiction, which also gives in a novel, for example, imagination or fantasy the space to depict interactions or communion that give perspective on life, and that’s more than anything “objective” could ever be. Without that being seen as real, it’s like saying you can make a violin without any tools to carve the wood. Your feelings, your instincts, your reflexes, your beliefs, all of what creates the images in our mind determining how we respond ARE what makes our life beyond anything you can pin down AT THAT MOMENT as being real or not real, because you can’t perceive the future. Nor do I believe it’s meant to have the limitations you get with “sanity,” with “statistical based norms,” or any of that belittling terminology that goes on with anyone that simply goes to that part of the mind that determines our reflexes, and allows it to speak. The SAD part is that when someone does that subconsciously, and aren’t able to themselves comprehend what that part of the mind is trying to say about reflexes, then instead of being greeted by people that have had such experiences, and do have such insight or at least believe that it’s possible, they are shut down by being told that it has nothing to do with “reality,” which we here again hear. And “medications” are nothing but a means to turn off the mind by giving it a chemical imbalance, and disabling it.

    “We are such stuff
    As dreams are made on, and our little life
    Is rounded with a sleep”

    https://www.sparknotes.com/shakespeare/tempest/quotes/page/5/

  • Although I honestly feel woefully inadequate to add to this profoundly scientific discourse, there’s something that might have been overlooked regarding Turpentine.

    You know the fictional character Peter Pan, I think. Well, if you take the sentence: “Peter Pan Tying,” you have a sort of misspelling of P Turpentine. Albeit with a slight Southern accent. And in keeping in sync with the scientific bend this discussion and the whole environment provoking this discussion has taken forth and has been taking forth for quite a long time, you might seriously look into whether there’s a pirate, possibly named Hook, that needs to be tied up, him being a sort of ring leader in the creation of chemical imbalances, probably a lot like the Arch Fiend referred to by many religious leaders. And thus God created: “Peter Pan Tying,” or P Turpentine.

    This might lead to a 12 step program for Schizophrenics who all would (and should) be required to acknowledge that they are powerless against the Hook fiends of chemical imbalance, but P Turpentine or Peter Pan Tying is their salvation along with neuroleptics and any combination or cocktail of other miraculous solvents resulting, which might be referred to as “The Lost Boys”…..

    OK I’m done…..

    I believe in fairies

  • I misspelled than as then here, sorry.

    “Strange, I haven’t read anywhere that when you work people as slaves, in sweatshops or exploit their lives and environment (introducing more toxins) that when they can’t work anymore due to illness or simply having enough of it, that they have less years left than (was misspelled then) when they were being exploited, and thus it’s more productive for them and healthier too to have slaves, maintain sweatshops and deny what economic exploitation does.”

  • Not “medicating” people with neuroleptics increases life expectancy as well as recovery. That’s also the case with whether you force someone to have their lively hood depend on working in a sweatshop, being a slave or living in an economically depressed zone because of corporate exploitation (greed). But then there’s loss of profits, right?

    Strange, I haven’t read anywhere that when you work people as slaves, in sweatshops or exploit their lives and environment (introducing more toxins) that when they can’t work anymore due to illness or simply having enough of it, that they have less years left then when they were being exploited, and thus it’s more productive for them and healthier too to have slaves, maintain sweatshops and deny what economic exploitation does.

    I wonder how many people listed as dying in un-medicated years had started to have serious health issues because of the “medications,” and took themselves of of them because of toxicity causing somatic disease, and so took themselves off of the “medications” to survive a bit longer, which of course isn’t looked at either, that when someone starts getting possibly life threatening side effects, and takes themselves off of the “medications” whether they lengthen their lives that way isn’t considered. Instead, do they stay on the “meds” then that’s added onto the years the treatment gave them the life threatening conditions and said to lengthen their lives, and do they lengthen their lives by getting away from what was killing them, that’s listed as what killed them, instead. Same as people that eventually found out that the “medications” weren’t helping them actually deal with life’s problems and didn’t afford them enough emotional freedom to express themselves, even though such dissent could cause the same problems as dissenting against any suppression. And then there are the people that can simply feel how the medications suppress their feelings and mute their responses, and cause debilitating side effects, people that really only needed help from those who don’t respond in a paranoid way to such “symptoms” but know how to work with them to create understanding and emotional growth, and even see such “symptoms” as welcome color in an otherwise bland conformist society.

    Which expands the whole delusion. Therapists that actually speak the truth about “medications” and thus go against the whole drug company funded “therapeutics” business, although they get better results, don’t usually fall under many insurance guidelines and aren’t hired or allowed to even speak the truths in formal businesses involving mental “health.” And nothing they do would be acknowledged if they don’t promote “medications,” and be said to cut off the lives of those they could be helping, despite all of the evidence to the contrary.

    And to simply speak about something called emotional awareness, and would someone, anyone simply somehow feel that this isn’t all quite right. Would they know people in the mental health system, have seen what goes on with “treatment” and have a healthy enough brain and enough emotional freedom to have healthy un-indoctrinated instincts and insights kick in as to what’s going on; none of that is allowed, and what does THAT say about emotional health in a field calling themselves mental health?

    If you’re not brainwashed, you’re supposedly psychotic?

  • Excuse me but I’m really not interested in curt ideas of how one can ONCE AGAIN label normal responses to trauma as something severe that we need to cope with (or battle against), and then have bettered our and everyone else’s lives, as if seeing it as being severe and something to get rid of some as sort of heavy undertaking we get points for, simply because we make it out to be severe. I lost track at how often people over react once they believe you’re crazy, and act like there’s as you put it “something seriously wrong,” when what’s really wrong is the ridiculous paranoia, the gossip, the fear mongering, the social ostracizing and the bullying and ridiculing. The very initial thing one goes in to the mental health system believing they are in some sort of grave danger (Trewlany’s favorite line in Harry Potter) isn’t what causes the “episodes” either, it’s the resistance against them, the resistance against seeing it as a normal response, and also then often a response to “medications.” The DSM is a highly politicized bunch of paranoia, full of social constructs that are quite illogical except that it goes along with society’s belief in compromises as magic. (verbose enough?)

    What kind of nonsense is this: “Heh buddy, you know there’s something serious going on.”

    “If you actually followed what correlates with recovery then you wouldn’t have to deal with the result of recycling into “episodes” that wouldn’t be there without the disabling substances that prevented understanding, and recovery, which in this case is simple understanding by allowing someone to go through a process, rather than creating stigma and paranoia against it. And if you haven’t gone through it without trying to prevent it, then you haven’t gone through it.”

  • “My progression from nonpsychotic to psychotic followed a pretty typical course, unfortunately, there was much hesitation in giving me such a “serious” label, when in the end the correct diagnosis saved my life. I come to accept my diagnosis because I want to move on and live my life, helping others, not accepting things like this lead to a life time of questions and anger which isn’t worth it in the end. As tough a diagnosis as schizoaffective disorder has been it has helped me heal and taught me how to help others.”

    “Not accepting things like this lead to a life time of questions and anger which isn’t worth it in the end.” “Things?” What does “things” refer to? There are a lot of “things” you get points for for accepting from society, but cause trouble when you don’t conform, and thus anger and questions.

    Not accepting that you’re taking on a disease label that in contrast to being proven to be biological isn’t although its “cure” has been proven to be, this leads to a “lifetime” of question and anger that isn’t worth it in the end? Why would that be?

    Going against a fascist system (taking away people’s right to dissent from treatment, taking away personal liberties, labeling them as dangerous when they aren’t etc.) can also cause a lifetime of anger and questions. In fact more questions not less.

    I’m quite sure that there are people, and evidence shows they are in the majority, that indeed take on a life time of questions and anger (and suppression) exactly BECAUSE the label isn’t something that addresses what’s going on with them, puts them in a position for extreme discrimination and abuse, some of which you have highlighted, although there’s quite a bit more going on, certainly with people who have never acquired the insight to even know what’s going on and remain disabled lab rats for an ideology that hasn’t been proven to be effective..

    People take all sorts of stimulants to disable their mind. Sugar, alcohol, nicotine, street drugs, sex, shopping, $$$$$$$, junk food, chocolate and then think it’s part of this hard task of being productive, moving on with their life, as you put it. Getting past that annoying part of themselves that gets in the way of the happiness they believe is fulfillment when they’ve become a “productive” part of “society.” In fact they work hard to maintain it. In fact society for the most part nurtures a mindset that is drugged by ideology and maintains it through disabling the mind through various means. Whatever fashion is prevalent in whatever society uses it to judge others. Whatever arbitrary fear based bonding method that the group feels safe following in order to gain self worth above others who for whatever reason don’t follow such doctrines.

    And what you’ve delineated as being a very typical course (from non psychotic to psychotic) also delineates for many people how they got lost in a system at a vulnerable time in their lives, and remain stuck in it, disabled, a mere shadow of who they truly are, disabled and coerced into believing it’s necessary. And to promote a “tough” diagnosis earlier on is exactly what causes such repression.

    Beyond that, the simple right a person should have to their own life, and if there are things that society has difficulty with, and they would rather adapt, and disabling the mind helps them that’s THEIR choice, given informed consent, which usually isn’t going on with psychiatric drugs. That’s YOUR choice, but to call it a disease, to condone it being labeled as something it’s never been proven to be while the “cure” scientifically causes exactly what the disease is said to be (a chemical imbalance), this while most people aren’t informed of that: To call the whole process you have been through, which at this point you say is your own choice, a disease that’s been cured still does not make it a disease that’s been cured. And to label it such is highly fraudulent and misleading. And to label a list of symptoms as something inherent to a disease, be happy they have been alleviated (because you are happier that way) when there ARE a whole array of people who learned to understand the “symptoms” : added to this in this system calling it a disease and touting a cure that causes they very definition of the disease that wasn’t there to begin with, those people aren’t allowed a voice… then this starts creating fear mongering against symptoms, and heralds when they’ve been alleviated rather than understood with a healthy mind.

    sorry…

  • I’m sorry, but this being very true how someone is treated in “psychosis,” but you’ve defined it again for something it isn’t.

    All the violence against one is horrible, but how can one solve this while investing in the very institutions which condone such violence and promote it, and quake it as necessary for “safety.”

    It’s very much the same when someone gets hooked on street drugs, whether it’s through peer pressure, or in this case being forced on them, often through the same lies as peer pressure about street drugs and their wonders. Only here someone is forced on disabling substance and then told how miraculous they are because they disable dissent, they disable the very spiritual-artistic-human expressions that if given just a little bit of legroom would be understood, but would defy the status quo, the common compromises, the whole mind set society holds onto as if their fear based norms created reality, which could never be the case.

    Defending this and supplying videos that erroneously call schizophrenia a brain disease, this is misrepresenting what psychosis is, this is adding to stigma for people that need to get away from being bombarded with such misrepresentations, this is exploiting something that’s not working to make more demands and push to the side the simple things that work, which is non “treatment” with the “medications” that correlate with the whole spike.

    If you actually followed what correlates with recovery then you wouldn’t have to deal with the result of recycling into “episodes” that wouldn’t be there without the disabling substances that prevented understanding, and recovery, which in this case is simple understanding by allowing someone to go through a process, rather than creating stigma and paranoia against it. And if you haven’t gone through it without trying to prevent it, then you haven’t gone through it.

    There is an immense riff here between the need to simply allow inexplicable things like find yourself somewhere you don’t know how you got there (what psychiatric drugs were involved if any that might have helped with the lack of a healthy brain to remember enough, or that might have caused the need to escape?); not being able to express dissent from anything to such a degree that you attach to something you don’t understand yourself (aliens); or having repressed parts of yourself that you don’t even know need expression and you have suddenly a shift from another wise labeled shy personality.

    I might sound a bit annoyed and even impatient but I have had it SO MANY TIMES, encountering someone that understandably has all of these problems and points them out so articulately, and with such justified aggression, but when I offer a simple solution that works, and isn’t part of demanding the system change which isn’t working, I end up on the receiving end because why? Because the war is so just you don’t have to see that you’re ending up promoting what caused it (the problem) for the sake of justice: it’s such a “holy” war.

    “Schizophrenia” is NOT a brain disease, and never has been truly proven to be, unless you include the “treatment” for it, which DOES prove to cause a brain disease. And those are TWO completely different things. When the standard “treatment” correlates with what’s defined as a disease (in fact “the” disease), and the original disease in itself doesn’t, you’re not talking about healing a disease, you’re talking about causing one that didn’t exist before.

    In the meantime there ARE creative spiritual and to use an overused work “enlightened” people who have gotten out of the system, and have turned this supposed disease around to enhance what it is to be human instead, allowing it to be as innate a part of being human as imagination or hope or the fact that “God” exists outside of everything people get in the way of their life making demands on it rather than letting go and seeing what happens. People who have stopped allowing the “left brained” activity with all of it’s game theory fears, and all of its adherence to beliefs that come from social compromises rather than truth, and labels EVERYTHING as being “crazy” that scares it along with the belief in miracles. There are people that have STOPPED allowing that relentless itinerant fussing to get in the way. But that’s just a completely different way and it doesn’t say I need your “hospitals” when I can’t deal with myself, and it doesn’t say I need your “medications” when I don’t understand my responses, and my brain won’t conform to fear based social norms; and when all of that has shown to be a cause rather than a cure, it DOESN’T go there for “healing” or “safety”!

    Because there IS another way, and there ARE other outlets, you just have to let go of the ones that don’t work…. EVEN though there seems to be some immense loss to. This whole idea that SOMETHING needs to be there for me because this problem is so HORRENDOUS! If you didn’t think in such a way about it you wouldn’t be causing it to burst out again trying to show you differently, you wouldn’t be causing it, because you would actually have insight rather than fear.

    And this is supposed to be really harsh right, because this doesn’t empathize with what hasn’t been shown to work, although everyone gets points for investing in it – what doesn’t work, because then there’s more need for it despite that it doesn’t work, because it’s supposed to although it doesn’t – and to not go along with this nonsense is labeled as cruel, inhuman and lacking in concern….

    It’s THAT convoluted.

    I’m not interested in other people misrepresenting what I’VE gone through and was MY experience NOT THEIRS, and then have to be believing it’s necessary for “help.”

    sorry….

    Prince Charming coming riding in with a hypodermic needle full of…….

    (!?)

    Or his “Castle”

    Or being “Faithful” to him

  • Not only have I found it difficult to get someone ever enduring anti-depressants to engage with these very well documented statistics, but I’ve had it where someone already off of them, which the other ended up being as well, that one is there to: you know like a used car dealer where they sell you something that doesn’t work, although you have to pay to get it as well as transport it to where you’ll fix it, and then also pay membership fees, and when you figure out what they should have told you, being nice, they repeat what you said and say that that’s why they people that.

    !?

    Is suicide supposed to exist in Heaven that it’s a thought that doesn’t depend on an anti-depressant, because I think that already would, Heaven existing at all, mean that we have a soul, and that doesn’t die, but thoughts do when they are incapacitated, and that is what ALL psychiatric drugs, and ALL “medical” psychiatric treatments do, and that is disable natural functions of the mind.

    Because that’s then their argument, that stopping anti-depressant won’t stop violence, or suicide or the drug companies lying to everyone.

    It’s all just conformistic convenience, like Johnny Depp making a movie with Mr. Actor who defends his child murdering, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Brando but are we to get him and Johnny to admit how misinformed they’ve put forth truly damaging ideas, it’s oh, but there’s something else that makes people violent, or there’s an excuse for the violence, or it never happened, people like that don’t do such things.

    And children who truly don’t do such (see above) are never sexually molested.
    And chase scenes don’t get people so riled up they don’t know where they are anymore, or how to respond to even trying to cook a meal with the sounds they’ve heard pounding in their consciousness trying to find some entertainment, some leisure for their mind.

    And when Johnny Depp has a hoard of friends and family members as well as his pimp Tim Burton make excuses for his behavior when he assaulted his ex wife numerous times, this is normal for the supposed oddballs to have such drug habits, legal and not.

    OH, and I forgot Time Burton isn’t his pimp. That used to be someone from Russia who didn’t even know who he was, and he got into doing gay porno under a pseudonym. And has been stalking and trying to intimidate me for more than 20 years feeling free to create gossip about me I never invited while surfing on what he lets out about himself, to sexually harass me and stalk me in coffee houses (helped by the family of someone who died from drugs on his property), and oh, he made a movie where a pill magically helps Don de Marcos know who he is again. Or that flick where his love interest gets treated like she’s at a tropical resort after being committed.

    And this isn’t even fictional.

  • To be as honest as possible and try to squeeze a response in

    This whole thing is like saying that the amount of time it takes to make plans that work decides whether they will.

    Psychosis is simply finding what works, for that person who is going through it, you give a person that right and they will. But handing out what-works-for-others-not-going-through-psychosis to gain control so that those who are going through it are hampered, and then say time is involved in a negative way. Why is it negative? Who is stuck not seeing as negative? Is it negative? If it was positive would there be more of it?

    That I would go back now and believe all of whatever wasn’t allowing me to let go of what simply didn’t work, and put how CONFUSING it ended up being when discouraged from finding my own answer in a list of symptoms, as if there was no reason for me to be confused…..

    And now that I’ve gotten this far, it’s not about being a working member of society; it’s about miracles, which were happening the whole time, but in the background and now have stepped forward rather than further away or down under or hidden or anything like that.

    And yet I hear the birds come and cry at my window every day, because of what’s lost to them, thanks to how “man” cares for nature.

  • “Others point out that the fear around the relationship between DUP and outcomes has led to doctors consolidating more authority and more frequently restrain patients at the slightest hint of psychosis.”

    That’s the problem the patients are so ‘cute” and the doctors are so…..

    And the answer probably isn’t taking a squirt gun into “therapy” and shooting the doctor with kool aid.

    Besides, the keys that will release you aren’t ones he can hold, that would be like Hollywood selling keys to the city, or to release Pegasus for a joy ride, or who knows what!?

  • The longer a tree falls to the ground, the more danger there is, because the more impetus it gains falling from its height, the more upon hitting it’s target there will have been gravity involved.

    This is why we should make sure to get hist (oops I mean hit) often as possible by many many missiles called asteroids, then the planet will have more gravity, and the tree won’t take so long to fall!

  • By the way, Washington Irving had Cowotelexomaniac periods – which also, along with the slang which is used usually by men towards women (could mean they’re jealous of all of the attraction that women have they don’t) – the meaning has of a Dutch word for chewing, pronounced the same as Cow (Kauwen); only Cow as onomatopoeia is without the added syntax of the n’s (or being in them [n’s) and knocking u over), however that’s only in certain verbal forms of the infinitive’s conjugation, formally.

    He still has it too, it’s when the paintings get feverish over plagiarism that’s going on amongst those in the library that they have to sit and look at (they really can’t turn their gaze away without causing undue stress to their otherwise peaceful life), and look at while watching them, something they apparently have second thoughts about, and consequently end up a bit climbing the walls.

    It HAS happened that their eyes have flown off, but that’s more Shakespeare, and what happens to Juliet.

  • Yeah, but there’s so much to learn from putting them in little reservoiries like a shell game, to see whether the stupid populace with all of the unwarranted need for honesty they have can figure out what is under what, which hand, why it doesn’t move by itself, and eventually (the populace) only sees (the populace sees, is correct form of the verb to see) what is invisible, because then at least….

    however YOU brought up coding that’s extra-scientific and that’s not even a verb

    Or am I wrong

    Extra-scientific aspects of psychotherapy is coding, which is against alcohol. Ethical aspects is hypnosis against a nervously ticking child.

    I’m surprised you didn’t bring up hypnoses and hippotelexomaniacs related to Rhino it’s brother, that has also made its way into wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nose-picking however, its brother still remains hidden.

    And I don’t know whether in other languages the names for psychiatric diseases use articles that contain gender references.

    For example, if still somewhere homosexuality is seen as a disease of the mind, is that disease then referred to, would a man have it as: “He has her.” “She’s got to be gotten rid of.”
    “We can’t have her around.” “Just read the bible about her.” “The world would be a better place without her.” “If we could just have more laws against her, and better privilege to eradicate her.” “She’s REALLY a danger to our children.” “Just imagine if SHE could actually cause reproduction!?”

  • To the list of platents hovering over one forced on, and forcing them:

    A girl named [redacted], the reincarnation of Charlotte Bronte, working at a foster care facility, but mostly for those called “retarded” or cognitively challenged, WHY such people are put on what’s listed above finally clearly, and the rest.

    So her x-husband (don’t ask me the story, to have to repeat it without serious yowling like what happens when you swing a dead cat by the tail and it starts yowling anyhow giving sign that Jesus is around, the whole history of it which rivals a serial killers, and he, the x was Rasputin) he had stopped working at a place he was forced to dole out such “meds,” and I had the nerve to point out that this didn’t mean he didn’t have concern for the people, because he wasn’t playing the game of catch one who’s vulnerable enough to think they are being helped. This woman who followed me home, took up so much time that I wasn’t walking the dog of my parents house being a different excursion, who got her own house after making sure she made me think I would get another to rent she first sat in instead, and in the mean or somewhere after or before time invited me over to clean the apartment that wasn’t interim but before she moved who knows how many times afterwards as well with another guy or three she changed warrants for, to instead accuse me of being difficult to get close to when I didn’t want to get high with her and the guy she’d been complaining about non-stop who WAS on such meds, and wasn’t her x or another of them; But heh, I point out not handing out such meds is not a sign of not caring, and she explodes in amplified anguish embellished with turgid tears of desire, hurt that I dared not make her out to be compassionate in her devices. Since, she’s had at least two children with different guys, one of the fathers was murdered when he gave the impression of being inchoate in his sincerity; and with yet another she’s now in “domesticity”.

    It’s not just those that produce the meds, those that advertise them, those that patent them, prescribe them and stuff them down the throats of innocent victims, it’s also those that out of kindness make it seem like it’s part of a necessary ritual. If you take that percentage of brain washing out of this study, how much is left at all?

  • The oldest trick in the book, ma[k]e a [] reference that’s not coded and say it’s “around”…

    and I think she did a lot of damage with the publicity she got surrounding that

    And that’s not thinking, and further more, if it was “around” in reference to “publicity…..”

    She’d still not be sitting with him and his cohorts and their booze bottles.

    And it’s called “felicity,” being true to something if you are hired to be a public informant called a reporter.

  • To look at the weaving soliloquy
    Of your thoughts dancing, murmurings of truth
    As far as you can see into the deep
    Blue heaven of being under the sun
    Where it’s human like the birds to have wings
    Only for us it’s imagination
    And that makes it so alright to be here
    That to forget anything else, is love

    I want to apologize that I haven’t posted for awhile, but the dragon keeps eating my home work you see. And that basket weaving class of she knows who, after I got her kicked out of teaching art class where we were not allowed to touch the models we saw doing anything and everything imaginable (even to make them comfortable or give more room for them to be finding themselves), and after you know what and you thought you knew who and the rest of what the f%$#& from the rest of the flock accused of not being able to count when you know this then that the dragon got the leader and it improves the flight…

    They all think I’m back but I’m not the dragon!

  • Throwing the baby out with the bath water is a reference to the times when everyone took a bath in the same tub, and the baby last, so by that time the bath was so clouded that they might not know there was anything as intelligent as a baby wondering why they no longer cared to sustain its life.

    Further more, remembering the kind of out of control behavior, many call crazy, but I wouldn’t insult those diagnosed with such a dilemma to use such terminology at all:

    Someone that doesn’t speak the language is put in an asylum, this I can vouch for.

    Someone who protests is put in an asylum, and the people there tell him that they know he’s not “crazy,” but don’t tell the police that brought him there that they can’t accept such discrepancies and lies.

    I’ve had it that a social worker confronted with the task of being simply honest, as if I’m too receptive to that and being honest isn’t productive, makes out that when she’s at a loss to convince anyone that I’m a danger to anything (which I wasn’t the whole time, at all) that I was supposed to have command dialogue going on to have heard the thoughts she was thinking that she didn’t express verbally, as if they were said verbally, and then further more might have made up afterwards, as if there’s some legal juxtaposition of time would she have to find reason for what didn’t happen in order to make out that she was protecting something that wasn’t helped at all by her indoctrinated brainwashing others were supposed to be infected with or there was some danger that didn’t appear to be there when it wasn’t. And this person still stalks me…. And I by now was supposed to feel free to make up the same lies about anyone that was honest rather than making out a danger was there when it wasn’t honestly at all.

    THAT kind of behavior is throwing the baby out with the bathwater by trying to get others to not even see there’s something vital inside of the cloud they’ve made of what was meant to be fulfilling to stuff one does to feel clean.

    In the same vein, someone actually able to dream and able to express the scenarios related to life, if they actually non violently make such relationship (say like Joseph Jacob’s son exposing his father’s manipulations of inheritence when nature honored honesty rather than device) that there’s a danger there, because it might expose the lies of those thinking truth isn’t truth but a loss to them. Or someone that’s simply walking down the street wearing a different fashion than one, would they actually simply mind their own business and walk past one rather than going a different direction because of a prejudice one might have, that one is free to make up lies about them.

    And what is supposed to be there instead of water to involve such lies?

    The anosognosia of psychiatric drugs that make a person believe that lies are reality because it works for THOSE people to believe there’s a danger there isn’t without honestly checking, and try to make others believe it and that they are helping when they aren’t, and yet…..

    miracles happen

    sorry….

    they do despite all of those lies to the contrary.

  • Just a hopeful guess, but I wonder, would it at all be possible, and is it in any way whatever soever even slightly just a little bit, not too much a bit just a little bit, that I might just endeavor to maintain that having to sit in school many full wonderful hours a day, probably without a pillow to make one too comfortable, probably having to ask to use a bathroom rather than it becoming a hideout, probably a great percentage of the time having to do things that are so necessary they don’t occur automatically which would make one’s mind consequently quite overloaded with possible attempts of distraction that further more should be labeled as inappropriate, that this might possibly would consequently relieve the great concern with those doing these wonderful amazing interventions for young people!?

    For example, when I chimed in about anti-depressants on the bus, because a man said his doctor had advised him, and he mentioned how he used to have a foster care facility there where the famous Columbine shootings took place, and that those two boys would play pool at his facility, and told how they were bullied in school, how the Principle said to go to the Sheriff, and the Sheriff said to go to the Principle, and when the ring leader of the two told his doctor that his new medications (Luvox) were making him have angry hateful thoughts towards just about everyone (his girlfriend, his friends, his parent, etc.) that when the doctor told him to just keep taking them, and so many weeks later the famous incident occurred, that we don’t know who this wise doctor is for his own protection, that the court case was thank GOD paid off by the drug companies (the case against the most wonderful anti-depressant), that the one boy that spoke out against this (which truly concerns me) ended up taken great care of in a foster care facility helped by psychiatric treatment for a chemical imbalance (on medications that left him unable to put the wrong things together that would have otherwise occurred by some fault), that, if I may assume, now such a thing, is all going to be put further into such protective measurements now in California where there will be an amazing reduction in such mass shootings!?

  • seeing as I can’t reply yet, the comment, other one not actually approved of, would here say:

    There are better ways of going psychotic, in order to be deemed a non reliable source, just in case you’ve got the nerve to get yourself into obliviousness, but it’s of course really about aliens with spaceships that come and pick you up, if you’re in need of an air lift, and on anti-depressants, because I really don’t think that you would get shipped over to the USA, just because Russia wanted you treated right.

  • Pretty disgusting. Dangerous people on the streets? Does this mean that anyone not on the streets is less dangerous, because that might be the opposite, actually. Plants, they also don’t live in houses, they might be dangerous too, MORE GENETIC ENGINEERING!

    Perhaps those behind desks devising ways to make money off of the trend to ignore the mother earth (which also doesn’t live in a house, can you imagine how dangerously homeless and uncontrolled by societal dogma such a creature as the mother earth is?), perhaps those behind a desk might be more dangerous. Maybe they should have an experiment and put those behind desks in the situation those who are homeless have, and see whether they are dangerous then or not. And let the homeless run the system, instead, but then they might know it isn’t working to begin with, and might change things too much.

    That someone who is homeless, or someone unable to adapt to a system that’s raping the mother earth, or someone that’s expressing trauma as trauma that they are a danger is utter fallacy of judgment, which I would insult those labeled as such to call crazy. One is supposed to get points for denying what trauma does because it’s supposed to be a social disciplinarian device instead, giving them the right to persecute anyone expressing trauma as trauma.

    But when you get away from the system, you notice that there’s something much more worthwhile there when you just let go of all of i, because it’s never going to work. Those deemed as crazy or dysfunctional to it, are already one step ahead of finding what it is to be real, and human. The Universe is allowed to blossom in their soul.

  • I find it interesting that in the whole article, there’s hardly a comment about why people resort to drugs, regardless of their status in society.

    From the article:

    “She suggests that by segregating moral subjectivities along racial and class lines, psychiatry itself is one of the social determinants of people’s mental health because it creates certain types of identities while limiting others.”

    Isn’t fussing about…

    I really don’t know what to say, because the most aggressive fixated attempts to make me feel there’s something wrong with me, come from people that should know better given the amount of racial prejudice against them, but then they take on an image as defense, and that image is supposed to replace who they really are, an image created by the people putting them down. The very fears that they might feel trauma themselves, and express it to let go of it, and see it doesn’t rule them. Instead they go for the whole image making schpiel.

    But isn’t fussing about what economic status one is in, or minority group, or oppressed race, or any of that, isn’t that just taking away from what they have that those oppressing them have lost? And that also is in reference to those within their own economic status, minority group or race, even be they the majority again in that next fragmented piece of society in terror that they might find out they are human and not its machinery.

    And who is supposed to maintain this image, this “drug,” this idea as to what a person is supposed to have? Wouldn’t the whole thing ( the image, the schpiel ) fall apart if that wasn’t desirable to begin with, regardless of who has attained it and is the object of what you’re supposed to have…

    “………sometimes am I king;
    Then treasons make me wish myself a beggar,
    And so I am: then crushing penury
    Persuades me I was better when a king;
    Then am I king’d again…”

    http://www.shakespeare-online.com/plays/richardii_5_5.html

    And the mind does have the ability to deal with life, without being dowsed with whatever economic, or cultural level of power over it is desired, whether it’s image or lethe, both becoming a drug, the one physical , the other even more addictive…

  • Yeah, but your article does actually address that. If peer support people would be allowed to be peer support people rather than filtered through, as you said: “I think it’s ethically problematic to put “peer” staff in positions where their work is implicitly or explicitly involved with coercion.”
    It’s not just that they are involved with that (coercion), they aren’t allowed to openly dissent from that, otherwise they are more likely to have gotten out of the system. And the ones still in it are going to have acquired quite a bit of political acumen.

    Hasn’t the UN actually spoken against forced treatment?

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/10/un-to-usa-forced-treatment-prohibited/

    https://mindfreedom.org/front-page/u-n-rapporteur-on-torture-calls-for-ban-on-forced-treatment/

  • To make this discussion completely psychotic, not because that’s a disease, because it involves the imagination; and since psychiatry actually is illegal, would one honor the basic tenets of the law regarding harming another or using force that harms another: and would that be uncontaminated with precepts such as a person being a harm to themselves or others, when the implementation of such precepts really statistically has caused more harm to the people seen as a danger, it becomes clear that psychiatry is operating quite illegally in many ways. And to protect people from supposedly doing harm to themselves or others ends up causing more harm to themselves and others. Very much how gangs also operate.

    How do you stop gang behavior? I think that comes from places for youth to go, centers where they can play sports or perhaps get involved with art, social places where they aren’t judged, it’s said that more trees, and parks, and more green from plants helps, there even was an experiment where people prayed regularly, this in Washington DC and the police at first poo poohed it, but crime actually went down to such a degree they asked for it to be repeated. I think that’s a lot like changing society in a way that people are simply listened to, and have a place to go. That they have a place to go rather than have their need labeled as deviant, or diagnosed as symptoms of a disease, that with all of the social parameters of marginalization overlooked.

    And since we are actually talking about illegal behavior, regarding psychiatry, although this is given the facade of being legal, in practice. Were the letter of the law actually honored it wouldn’t be legal. Then changing the nature of peer support, is actually something quite profound. That a person should be welcome to be able to point out what is illegal transcends simple peer support. And not changing that is a bit like when you want to change the social precept governing gangs (because they are illegal, so what governs them is “social” not legal precepts) and that a gang member who would be allowed to be a gang member should only be allowed if they promote other kinds of gang activity that are less rapacious and more non violent. Are the leaders of the gang going to welcome this with open arms? And this doesn’t seem to necessarily work as well as preventing the forming of gangs to begin with.

    But those are just my thoughts, trying to gain perspective using imagination which is subjunctive and entertains potential.

    But yeah, peer support people should be able promote something other than the whole model that’s coerced and forced on people as a cure they aren’t allowed to dissent from nor are allowed to point out its ineffectiveness.

    And with that I am rather blogged out here.

  • The drug companies act like a drug cartel. There’s a famous book about that whose author I can’t remember, but I was surprised to find that all you have to do is do an internet search for “drug companies act like a drug cartel,” and you get a lot of hits.

    That’s gang activity. And I’ve read many evaluations of psychiatry that parallel their behavior to that of pushers, the way they get people addicted, and how they promote the drugs as a necessary remedy which pushers do the same only calling it an escape. Only it’s from the other side of the ballroom: one legal the other not.

    And now Portugal legalized “illegal” drugs which brought the amount of abuse down, I understand. This makes me wonder whether making psychiatric drugs over the counter (I’m just wondering what that would potentially do), which then would leave people with themselves to talk about regarding its effects, and regarding the side effects, as well as withdrawal. They then wouldn’t have a doctor to have to deal with at all, and neither a psychiatrist. And they wouldn’t have to exhibit behavior that would need approval from the psychiatrist (or social worker, or perhaps even family and friends) in order to make their own decisions regarding the effects of the psychiatric drugs. I wonder whether that would promote a better understanding, as well as discussion at all levels of society, including peer support, as to what those drugs really are doing.

    I don’t know, but the preponderance of people who are supposedly touting “objective” truths about drugs when would they speak negatively about the drugs, they would be met with disapproval and labeled as further diseased: if their experience with the drugs weren’t at such a level, and they truly were free to speak to peers, not having to deal with others called authorities evaluating whether the drugs changed their behavior, whether then things would be different, and to what extent.

    And, regardless of whether the drugs are over the counter or not, people should simply be able to speak about how the drugs effect them, and also have enough informed consent that they can recognize effects the drugs could be having, but then the whole scenario would have to be changed. And the focus wouldn’t be on changing the person or getting them to adapt to a society (or a gang), or eradicating behavior that’s challenging, but listening to them.

  • If one is going to talk about taking things to another level, then you might mention how the death toll from coercive, forced or fraudulently advertised treatment in psychiatry perhaps far exceeds what one is discouraged from comparing it to, as well as the length of its “rein.” That also involves ethical quandaries on all sides, including the people who then are told not to compare it.

  • I was simply proposing what would put an end to coercive psychiatry, and then it wouldn’t need any peer support.

    In regards your remark that it wasn’t clear to me what the article was about, or perhaps (for all I know) that proposing a different perspective is out of line when I introduce what I feel is a larger perspective (whether you feel that way or not), I find such “diagnosing” something to avoid and without it my point isn’t difficult to acknowledge.

    I don’t say that it isn’t a good idea to stop “peer support” from propping up the psychiatric system, I simply state that with a different approach you wouldn’t have the coercive system called “psychiatry” needing to be propped up. To stop propping it up would also help.

    The article very clearly points out how present psychiatry corrupted the idea of peer support, and if there was a completely different approach towards mental health or just human nature in general, which I tried to point out, that woud be people simply listened to each other rather than diagnosing, or drugging or coercing into treatment, then there wouldn’t be the whole present psychiatric industry corrupting peer support and needing to color coercion into treatment as healing although it statistically has caused more of the problem rather than a lessening: all that as game for something called “peer support.” And those people would have something to do that less resembled gang activity. That also would make change regarding “peer support.”

    It might also help if such peer support came from people that simply have found what mental health is by listening to others, gaining understanding of human behavior, and instead of having been consumers of “mental health” services had maintained mental health by not diagnosing, not wanting to coerce anyone into treatment and not promote disabling their natural emotional responses by diagnosing or “treating” such responses, whether it’s coercing into change or pharmaceutical. And I think that’s what Soteria house was about in many ways, because the criteria was that instead of judging the patients as being crazy, “non professional,” workers were hired who were simply interested in listening to the patients and the “weird” things they had to say rather than deciding it was an illness to be treated.

    And there are people that simply found or find answers for their “mental health” issues WITHOUT getting involved with psychiatry. In fact, I think that that in general probably would show to be more effective.

  • No one here is denying the holocaust, but to use that as a measuring stick against other atrocities, I find disingenuous.

    In fact the, adjectives, Mr. Stasny used (facile, inaccurate and polemic) when the comparison was made between the millions of people whose lives are lost and squandered (and remains legal), and the Nazi era, those adjectives approach diagnosis. Facile is right next to non-reality based, as is inaccurate, and polemic is right next to what might be used to determine ODD.

    By this time, psychiatric drugging might easily have statistically shortened the lives of more than 6 million people. That’s also systematic, also uses the idea that those people have something wrong with them, and although it doesn’t outright kill them, it ignores the death toll caused by its treatments, which over the years has fooled even more people, or forced more people to follow its tenets, while its death toll continues, and is still in action, and is worldwide and more widespread than Nazi Germany was. To make the moral statement that “the systematic mass murder of innocent people remains in a category of its own” while such a systematic mass murder is going on, only clouded in medical treatment, and then to say that isn’t in the same category I find lacking. In turn, I what if a person who has lost a family member to psychiatry and its lies said about the holocaust: “the systematic mass murder of innocent people hidden as medical treatment remains in a category of its own, and to compare it to the holocaust of WW2 which was open murder I find unwelcome given that murder in the name of psychiatry is covert and thus more corrupt”?

    To name just one class of drug, neuroleptics, that have been proven to shorten a person’s life by 20 years, how many people over the planet (NOT just in Europe) have been put on such a drug, while evidence shows that in the long run they are ineffective? Despite an interim period where “symptoms” are suppressed, or rather trauma that needs attention, or simply room for cognitive understanding that need legroom are suppressed, in the long run the treatment is not only ineffective but corresponds with more relapsing, more cost, and personal and societal paranoia against symptoms that could have been understood, and loss of life.

    That and then the rest of the disabling agents that are touted as cures for emotions, when would one look closely at what this does in society, it adds to the dumbing down of a population that doesn’t acknowledge global warming, or when acknowledged doesn’t do anything critical enough to stop what could be stopped. THAT along with a whole host of other societal issues that aren’t addressed because it might cause discomfort that a disabling agent suppresses. This isn’t as bad as or worse than the Nazi era, which only lasted as long as it had, and is over with. The biological model of psychiatry (which is or during its tenure has been riddled with concept that can easily be seen as clouded versions of Eugenics, Racism, Misogyny, Homophobia, Classism, ) has been around MUCH LONGER than the Nazi era was. In fact it’s worldwide.

    In fact, given the psychiatric drugs Hitler was on, which was massive doses of “happy pills,” or methamphetimes, and the paranoia they created, along with their widespread use in Nazi Germany, there arguably isn’t even a separation between psychiatric drugging and the Nazi killing machine.

    Do a google search
    I did: “Hitler’s happy pill”
    and got a whole list of hits pointing this out
    You could also do
    Nazi’s and Methamphetamines
    of any other number of combinations

    There’s also the fact that Nazis who were put in jail for atrocities, and got out doing half time, then started Bayer aspirin, one of the leading proponents of the medical establishment’s newer aggressive take over of the market, such as we’ve seen with psychiatric drugging.

  • Of course, institutions meant to help people shouldn’t be riddled with pundits who, although advertised as peer support specialists, only tout what they’ve gotten rewards for repeating or punished for would they not repeat.

    But this is a little bit like saying that gang members shouldn’t do drugs, shouldn’t be robbing stores and should instead be gardening, going hiking etc.

    Give them something else to do. Someplace to go.

    Psychiatry exists only because society doesn’t promote people simply listening to each other, anything out of the norm is met with alarm from the person experiencing it to society’s inability to want to understand it.

    If society didn’t make people alarmed about normal emotional responses that go against the grain of indoctrination or dogmaticism, if society didn’t find fault with mildly extremist behavior in stark contrast to the extremist alarm going on in society finding fault with such behavior, no one would be looking for help from what creates such faulty peer support.

  • One has to be truly careful, when one has the idea that something needs to be done, because you can easily end up in the social bonding that emerges heralding ideology rather than results, and that’s not true thinking, that’s indoctrination. Doing nothing, even when that is called crazy, can be more helpful by far. It still remains that many people could not, would not and haven’t survived such “interventions.”

    To mention only a few thing:

    After your daughter clearly had an extremely bad reaction to medications, when she ends up in an asylum, and is again put on the very medications (an anti-psychotic) although one that was a new one, you state that you in “looking back,” think that was a mistake. Why didn’t you at that time become alarmed that the same process was repeating itself? Could you fill us in so we know how to relate to someone who is like you were at that point. Because many people have to try to relate to such beliefs and have no understanding of how to relate except that they know it isn’t going to help, and like me can become quite frustrated being baffled at how to respond.

    Later on you state that you learned (“above all”) that being in the asylum can be bad because a person can be introduced to street drugs. Why is that? One is at least clearly told about street drugs how addictive they are, and what they do to your system, and they aren’t touted as cures for emotional problems (although people might think that they work that way) while with psychiatric drugs such information is withheld or suppressed. With street drugs there’s informed consent much more and thus they also can CHOOSE to not take them and are never forced on them. A person clearly can find out for themselves how addictive they are and that they don’t enhance a person’s life. And street drugs work the same as psychiatric drugs because they are messing around with neurotransmitters, and many or most of them used to be psychiatric drugs half a century or more ago. I would think that above all it’s the stress on drugs at all in the asylum, and that people forced on “medications” that mess around with neurotransmitters while receiving no help with the emotional problems, the need for cognitive perspective or the spiritual awakening that might be going on: that they then are going to turn towards street drugs. You could say the same thing for going to a University, that someone can get involved with drugs or drinking, while perhaps it’s the lack of true interest in the human mind beyond indoctrinating it that it the true danger there. And I’m not condoning street drugs at all.

    And you also state that you didn’t know that symptoms can re-occur when getting off of “medications.” It’s clear then that you weren’t taught this in social work school, but what were you taught that lead you to not see what was going on? And what are those “symptoms?” That the drugs didn’t work in the first place, that whatever “symptoms,” that were suppressed weren’t understood, and when they re-emerged got the same treatment, because they were seen as symptoms not valid expressions of whatever they were expressing and could be given room to express itself? Those are symptoms of suppression from treatment, that’s not even what would have happened leading a person look towards treatment, which adds another problem, the anxiety a person is taught to have about “symptoms,” that might just be normal human responses when not met with such anxiety that “something” needs to be done. Still we’re talking about “symptoms” (anxiety, paranoia perhaps even and then also “medications” toxicity) that come from believing something needs to be done rather than what was there that brought into being such “beliefs.” And how much of those “symptoms,” become simple normal responses that when a person is in an environment not seeing that as a disease, not becoming alarmed about it, that it ceases to be a problem but something that’s embraced and understood. In one area it simply isn’t really engaged with and thus discriminated against, and in another area it’s resolved.

    And then I read the rest of the article and am amazed and happy to see there is a change, but how much of the problem was that “symptoms,” were seen as such rather than something completely normal given the circumstances, and that doing “nothing,” would have from the beginning been more helpful?

    The one thing Soteria house does, I would think, when working with a whole family is to turn around the whole idea of “symptoms,” because I would think it’s the environment defining them as such NOT the person themselves, because the weren’t born, didn’t wake up from Heaven and suddenly start having issues with stuff that when properly looked at would only remind them that they are human rather than some piece of machinery manufactured by society. Rather than “symptoms,” they could see that there was valid emotional stuff, or cognitive stuff not given room to express itself, or unusual experiences that weren’t acknowledged or shown interest in to give a person the feeling they could be themselves regarding what life brought them, all stuff to remind them they are human and where they came from. Stuff and more going on that when not given room to express themselves became instead “symptoms.”

    And sorry but a major turn towards what would help would simply be do NOT get involved with the mental health system or turn to them when you’re having difficulty.

    I don’t even know why this is supposed to be a “disease” anymore. As if innocence is a disease.

    Recently I encountered an energy healer – and have been to a few, one actually had been put in an asylum as a child, because he would see auras which he described, and he would know things like who was on the phone before it was picked up and what they were going to say, but when clear miracles happened a Catholic priest actually decided that he had been given special gifts by the devil and then a special indoctrinated by the church psychiatric decided if Gene had shock therapy that the devil wouldn’t like the feeling of it and let go of Gene. And so Gene actually repressed all of that till his life fell apart, and then the miracles started happening again, and he traveled all around the world even getting the Russian Cosmonaut medal because his pure nature inspired people to find their own inner healer where miracles happen. And when people from Chernoble found healing, he was honored thus. You can hear his whole story here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9edB02jWP0 and see what he does to promote healing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9edB02jWP0 which continues here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSX-gUmxQ3M. Gene passed away in 2009, but I found another healer and was getting in touch with what she does beyond time and space, and it allowed me to feel what actually gets in the way of the healing energies (but that’s crazy in itself, because it’s not from the physical, it’s from the mind, from thought). I didn’t even go for any “psychiatric” problem but a physical one, which has now healed although it’s not supposed to have that way. And I’ve found that after both healings that occurred with Carol and Gene before that, I felt restrained from being active. Not held back but restrained more, because I simply felt detached, not being able to be active and take part anymore fueled by what IS causing the problem while I’m not supposed to be aware of what would prevent all of that, because it’s “crazy”. Not “objective.” https://caroleverett.com/ And that’s the difficult part, because you then see how much “society” gets in the way, and in how many ways. And how many of your decisions are actually to escape knowing what heals, because society doesn’t accept that. In fact, you can’t even go around in society being active about what truly heals, because that’s seen as nothing: too soft, doesn’t give you that spark of thinking you’re combating something to get somewhere, because what heals actually doesn’t need anything to oppose it, it really only need you to allow it. Detach and don’t do anything for awhile and you’ll feel it. Instead society gets in the way. That being what MOST of its defenses do. But if you really let go, you learn soon enough that there’s a whole other world. And “crazy” really isn’t a disease at all, and it’s seeing it as crazy that’s the real mistake beyond ever getting it right, because even a “disease” can teach you there’s something wrong (change your thoughts, change your habit, what you eat, whether you stress yourself out in whatever way: fighting wars no one can win, or simply find the help you need which wasn’t there before), or it can challenge you to change your life to see what’s right, but you decide that something is crazy and you’ve already decided that it has nothing to say, and will never make any sense. That what could change your life has to be eradicated.

    On Amazon Prime there’s another healer. Charlie Goldsmith, who somehow taps into the same wave pattern of what’s “crazy,” and what heals, because the people whose problems go away after Charlie has been the conduit of that say things like: “You’re not for real,” because it’s so totally unusual and amazing to them, or: “that’s crazy,” I don’t know how many times I heard that. Or one lady says: “I’m just weirded out right now.” After she realized she suddenly could do stuff she hadn’t been able to. And she actually WANTED to do stuff that before would have caused pain or discomfort. They here went and revisited someone he had helped when they were filming a show about him (which he didn’t really get paid for paying his own transportation and housing to be in the area in California I think). He started his own company because he didn’t WANT to charge for his gift. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-gQ6oBDpB4

    It’s all really crazy.

    Years ago, I happened upon a medium and a spirit friend had to put him in a trance when he was doubting her information (he didn’t understand the love between me and her I later was told, sort of like Lord Voldmoort not understanding the power of love) and she called me her son, having been Mozart’s mother. What I found, actually, is that Mozart never composed anything, the way the discipline would say. He only simply honored music as an innate place (using imagination of all things) where a person can find a home for their emotions, and gain perspective on life, he responded to the music, and he went there instead of going somewhere that was supposed to be “sane” or “constructive,” or whatever it’s called, and not even to the music would he do that to, something quite impossible when miracles aren’t at all impossible in contrast. And now I’ve found music (and painting, and writing novels, and poetry, and pottery, and whatever) to be healing for me myself, and I haven’t gone up in flames, exploded into forever, but I’m letting it trickle in.

    But REALLY!

    This idea that you have to CONSCIOUSLY do something, that you have to be RESPONSIBLE and take action, this is too ridiculous to call crazy, because if you were crazy, and didn’t do all of that, and allowed something else to be there that doesn’t need anything opposing it (love, the tao, the Universe: One-Song) then all of the stuff that created all of the breadth of evolution in nature, what’s involuntary, what happens by itself, THAT will do things you never thought were possible and greater than ANYTHING you could come with thinking you need to have.

    And it’s crazy…..

  • I know, it’s difficult, but Mr. “Doc.” and his associates can’t control everything that comes into a person’s life, and if you let the things be there that do heal (in contrast) then that does show what heals, and that’s that.

    Being oblivious for an interim period because the “medications,” have disabled natural brain functions, and call that healing really ceases to be less attractive in contrast. And the whole epidemic that has been following after the initial interim wears out, with more relapsing, disability, although it (the epidemic) also increases people’s paranoia against normal responses to difficulty, trauma, unusual things in life and challenges by making out that it’s supposedly a chemical imbalance when it isn’t; when it’s shown that not “medicating” people and acknowledging and tending to those natural normal responses heals the person and changes society for the better, than that will be that as well.

  • another correction

    And then where this fighting can’t exist, where it escapes all of the perceptions of loss, and guilt and whatever else maintains the need for a fight but still exists (possibly in forever where whatever is there can’t be destroyed), and if such a place exists it again wouldn’t be allowed to, whether it’s called Heaven or love.

    It should read something like this:

    And then where this fighting can’t exist, where it escapes all of the perceptions of loss, and guilt and whatever else maintains the need for a fight, where it escapes all of that but still exists (possibly in forever where whatever is there can’t be destroyed), and if such a place exists it again wouldn’t be allowed to, whether it’s called Heaven or love.

  • correction

    “We haven’t even tried this (not forcing treatment or limiting treatment to our treatment), but if it worked what we call needed forced treatment would be shown to not work.

    should read

    “We haven’t even tried this (not forcing treatment or NOT limiting treatment to our treatment), but if it worked what we call needed forced treatment would be shown to not work.

    In other words, we are so sure that the pills will work we won’t try anything else.

    What did Einstein say about being crazy? “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

  • I’ve read this now three times, and I fail to see what the point is.

    To begin with, to site a study studying people being treated for “schizophrenia,” means you are studying people that are “medicated.” It doesn’t at all state that there were any “schizophrenics,” that weren’t medicated. What this is supposed to have to do with Torey’s statement that poor adherence to psychiatric medications brings bad results is beyond me yet, except that then you can ignore whether no medicating them in the first place turns out to be more helpful and preventative. And there’s of course no study listed comparing “schizophrenics,” that aren’t at all medicated to those having poor adherence or good adherence, regarding whether they get violent. In fact, those with “poor adherence,” you can be sure weren’t given the opportunity to be helped to get off of their medications. So it’s really about people not liking the treatment, being forced on it, and then whether they get violent. Siting a study that “schizophrenics,” have a bit more tendency to get violent without also looking at whether “treating” them with medications they aren’t allowed to dislike ups their chance to get violent is pretentious at best. To magically say it’s because of medication non adherence then is quite unscientific.

    And to treat the whole situation in a way (NOT involving “medications”) which promotes recovery, and logically prevents violence, that isn’t even entertained. That would be a treatment (the treatments that have been shown to work like Soteria House, Healing Homes etc.) other than the “treatment” being tested. But it’s not even entertained. The “treatment” entertained is such that when someone doesn’t like it they have – what the author of this article points out – a minor correlation with violence. Mind you, that’s a “treatment that when it forces a person on medications gives them extreme withdrawal symptoms would they not want such “treatment” or the side effects from it. And they for the most part can’t get or have difficulty seeking help for it (coming off the “treatment”), and probably are told that it’s their moral responsibility to endure the side effects that were making them not want to take the medications. On top of that they are most likely being told that the withdrawal symptoms are symptoms of the disease, not of the “treatment.” And then there’s this big statement that some people seem to get violent (although not as bad as five other criteria).

    This is science?

    And the people that aren’t compliant with “treatment,” that aren’t medicated at all, or weened themselves off, there’s enough evidence that they then have way more of a chance of recovery.

    I REALLY wonder though, why in the whole article, it’s not even mentioned about those people, or that poor medication adherence might mean that those are people that feel that the medications don’t work (which has been proven), but they aren’t allowed to have such awareness, and that that by itself is so suppressive and confusing it could make people violent. And that, when they are not allowed to nor their right to express their dislike for treatment is acknowledged, this echoes severe emotional issues that thus are being suppressed echoing the same coercion towards their behavior of expressing dissent or not.

    In fact, that people who aren’t treated with medications have less occurrence of violence isn’t even entertained. That would of course blow the whole argument, and if there’s more recovery, which has been shown to be the case, then there’s more exposing that’s not supposed to happen. Nor is it looked at regarding all of the evidence that psychiatric drugs cause violence, which there is ample evidence of, which was suppressed for years and still is.

    WHY are we supposed to even read this going around in circles completely ignoring the statistics regarding what happens when people AREN’T put on medications!? And why is “treatment” – whether a person is compliant to it or is seen as having poor adherence but still coerced that they should be compliant – that correlates with violence, not at all seen as a possible CAUSE of that violence!?

    That way you could call I don’t know what treatment!

    WHAT are they saying!?

    “We haven’t even tried this (not forcing treatment or limiting treatment to our treatment), but if it worked what we call needed forced treatment would be shown to not work. So here we’re forcing people on our treatment and when they don’t like it and aren’t helped to try something else that has been shown to promote recovery more, they get violent in an extremely marginal way.”

    And then there’s the venues that when there isn’t enough money for treatment, and people at first forced on treatment suddenly don’t get their “treatment,” their “meds,” then they start acting up, so we need more money for treatment. That you could have ever NOT got them addicted to “meds” that only work for a few years before there’s more relapsing, lack of recovery, more cost, more loss of life, more societal paranoia against people not treated by what doesn’t work!? Oh, and when they have withdrawal symptoms and aren’t helped with them and getting off of the highly addictive “treatment” (which would cost less in the long run and promote recovery) then we need more money to “treat” them.

    There was an article in The Onion about the big hole that everyone’s money ends up in, and when it was argued as to whether they would shovel it in or use another manner to dump money in there, someone said:

    “My father works two jobs so you can dump money in the hole, and I want you to use a shovel, not any other method!”

    Why are we even going on about “schizophrenia,” rather than seeing whether the treatment of it is a causing factor: NOT helping a person who wants another method than what they are forced on and they aren’t allowed to say isn’t the kind of treatment they see as working for them, as well as that there’s strong evidence that it doesn’t work, which is suppressed.

    And I’ve again typed in all of the above, checked it over, adjusted it, and only once mentioned how this “treatment” echoes severe emotional issues that already weren’t tended to.

    But I’m supposed to take up the other flag now, and in not tending to them (severe emotional issues) start fighting the cause, which wouldn’t be there if what actually heals was acknowledged rather than fighting about what doesn’t.

    It gets quite something when what truly heals and has no opposition, and so is there when you stop needing to oppose anything, that it’s thus disqualified because it dissolves the whole fight. WHY!? Because it might be called a miracle, and thus be seen as unrealistic? And then where this fighting can’t exist, where it escapes all of the perceptions of loss, and guilt and whatever else maintains the need for a fight but still exists (possibly in forever where whatever is there can’t be destroyed), and if such a place exists it again wouldn’t be allowed to, whether it’s called Heaven or love. That supposedly exists afterwards, if you’re good and judge others… Can’t ever be just now in the moment…..

    Well, I’m done….

  • By the way, I was reminded that there are checks on things like this, and that there’s more than one person involved when any decision about nuclear weaponry, but to me it really is just a point to make as to what’s considered crazy or not.

    I mean, she can say that she had religiosity, and this is acknowledged, but could anyone say that they had been brainwashed to think along the lines of what might be called militariosity (or militarism or whatever the word would be), and that could cause extreme alarm regarding quaking the idea of an enemy (in this case the devil, hell and satanic cults), and that effected their thinking causing paranoia?

  • I’ve listened to the whole two hours of an interview, and I wonder whether anyone else has, and comes away from it quite numb, staring at the walls.

    Marci actually has insight into what went on with her, she even talks about religiosity; and then also very clearly how the “medications” not only took away her ability to see danger, but made her extremely paranoid and out of control.

    I have no idea what The psychologist Kane is going on about, other than, when someone actually has insight, and expresses the consequent emotions in a logical manner, that Kane can’t deal with it, and comes up with this strange diagnosis of borderline. And then to top it off, instead of acknowledging all of the abuse, that Marci very clearly portrayed, she acts as if the danger is in letting her out rather than keeping her in. Kane said: “If Webber were released, she would be at risk “for developing more symptomatology in a community setting,” Kane said, and thus should remain a hospital inpatient.” which sounds like some prefabricated sound byte in order to get points from the system as if it’s working. Look here, we lock these people up, we’re safe. What they’re locking up is the truth from getting out.

    And from this point everything breaks up. Marci actually says that when someone is psychotic and a danger to themselves that they should be hospitalized, but she wasn’t. (!?) In reality, I think she had been hospitalized quite a bit (voluntarily also), and thus she was on a cocktail; and for the present system to function as a place for people to go who are psychotic, because otherwise they are a danger to themselves or others, the whole system would have to change, would the result not be what is HAS BEEN for the past so many years. For this present society to be safe people need to learn how to not get so alarmed that they fall back on the very system causing most of the danger. And she also mentions what kind of clearing she had in the military for nuclear weapons. And so, when someone is involved with a system where would ANY of such weapons be used, it could lead to the end of most of organic life on the planet, and she says this to point out that when they are given special privileges this points out their sanity rather than their insanity. It’s mind boggling. There IS no sanity there to me, and it’s much worse than what psychiatry might do, initially, which isn’t creating weapons of mass destruction that when someone pushes a button most of organic life on the planet can be destroyed. And she’s actually pointing out that someone like her could get clearance, and for all we know could end most life on the planet because otherwise it might go to hell.

    THAT’S how dangerous the present mental health system is, along with the drug company cartel.

    I hope she gets out and points that out, VERY CLEARLY, without trying to make out that she wasn’t crazy, because she was given clearance to be allowed to facilitate most organic life on the planet being destroyed!

    MY GOODNESS!

  • Heh, to say, in regards Marci believing that if her daughter would be killed in a satanic ritual, that her daughter would to go hell: I’m not saying that their aren’t satanic cults or that such killings don’t happen, nor do I know what was going on with that church, but I think I can say safely that when someone is killed in a satanic ritual, that they don’t end up in hell for eternity.
    The idea of hell is something that was conjured up as a mind control method, because when you make people think they are under attack, then you can control them. And saying that there are such fabricated principles governing whether someone gets to Heaven — whether they go to church or not, or even whether they have ever encountered one particular church’s teaching of something that as truth can only be universal and not changed by difference between cultures — this is along the same lines of mind control. Neither does it make sense. And it doesn’t work no matter how good one is being following the guidelines that never could be true would God be of love rather than using fear to control people.
    It all seems quite responsible trying to prevent such a horrible things from happening, but that would have to be truly something that would happen. I don’t think that’s the case. And I think that it’s actually investing in the beliefs that people need to be controlled by fear that quake and nurture the kind of dark fear based ideas and mind control that satanic cults come from.

  • This is what I also have found to help.
    What psychiatry does with its diagnosis is something akin to — although not as accurate as — monitoring the symptoms of someone that has a broken leg, or a sprained ankle, then anesthetizing the problem (the pain). And when along the line there’s more problems because you can’t walk around with an anesthetized broken leg or ankle without doing more damage, they make more of the same calls for treatment. For all I know in the end the leg is amputated and labeled as having genetic faults. Only the symptoms they are diagnosing often don’t really interfere with a person’s life as much as a sprained ankle or broken leg does, but the diagnosis does, and was the person left alone they would do better.

    Places like the Soteria house actually see there’s a broken leg or a sprained ankle, and treat that.

    IMHO

  • I actually had the same impression about high school, although it’s insulting to high school. It really was like her and her immature high school friends making up stories about someone they thought was weird. It really was like a bunch of immature high school girls going on about someone they think is weird and then concocting a bunch of alarmist scenarios they believe are real.

    And what she made out of yoga to me really was not good for one’s health. When you are doing something that’s supposed to relax the mind giving the body the chance to let go of toxicity and negativity, and yet there’s this strange varnish to what’s going on more akin to smiling because one is playing the image game; as well as that she went too fast to allow for true letting go, it makes one anxious in an area that otherwise gives one the space to let go of anxiety.

  • I read the beginning of this article, and I immediately thought, he was drugged, they put something in his drink, which happens ENOUGH in New York apparently, see the following story.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/13/arts/music/bizarre-court-case-puts-a-violinist-and-leipzig-string-quartet-in-an-unflattering-light.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/30/arts/music/violinists-attempted-murder-charge-is-dropped.html

  • Rachel777 yes it was extremely shocking. Overloading. Just going over all of that CRUD last night, the whole assault of non reality based pretentious hateful and discriminatory junk, in trying to type what’s above, it gets to be too much, and I have to take a lot of trouble to give myself space to rest afterwards.

    There was another thing I didn’t mention. In the beginning, when that brain washed lady had started to get her discriminatory ideas, it was during rest pose, and I saw the image of a spirit friend of mine, when she was a child. A spirit that I got to know incredibly well, and she had actually opened the channel with spiritualism in a way (although we later had to get away from it) because a medium was doubting the information. She had to put him in a trance. Well, I saw her as a young girl, and it made me cry. I’m talking about Mozart’s Mother Anna. I had some soft tears, and then I heard in the background someone (one of the yoga teacher’s friends) say: “And he starts crying.” I much later found out they thought I was in love with her, although it had NOTHING to do with it. Apparently, if I smiled at her, that was some sign of dangerous infatuation as well. And the girl that says: “and he starts crying,” was the one who said I was in the yoga teacher’s personal space, and then they intrude EXTREMELY into mine actually stalking, harassing, trying to intimidate with extremely non reality based and discriminatory actions. And they also in the process made it clear that if there was anyone that could become violent because of non reality based thoughts it was THEM!

    This whole crud about “it’s mental illness,” regarding mass shootings, when psychiatrists each year KILL with their medications MORE people than all the mass shootings put together; and it might be Kill more people every month, for all I know.

    What was so shocking, sitting there hearing someone say, as if it’s some sort of obvious logic: “She said he could become violent,” is that there is the whole mass of children, that when they simply had difficulty concentrating, had some mild manic behavior, felt sad in a way that bothered them, were rebellious against authority; or because of lack of sleep or lack of a space to express themselves safely, had thoughts they didn’t know how to understand, or children that were sexually abused, or bullied, or encountered physical abuse; these children probably at one point had to listen to reports of what “a social worker,” said about them, because if labeled that way it could become a reason they needed to be seen as having a psychiatric condition to keep the whole system going; and then have the whole array of misconstrued brainwashed crud thrown at them; when they really just didn’t quite know what was going on with them and why they responded in a completely natural and normal way to what was going on. Or even that it WAS a completely normal and natural way to respond to something they couldn’t safely express as being the cause. Instead there’s something wrong with the response…

    And there’s a lot I haven’t mentioned regarding what was supposed to be crazy concerning me. One of the things ended up being something (a time loop) whatever, that made me feel sure that I would get a physical miracle, that I consequently have gotten. But the way such things work is beyond the limitations of those calling it non reality based. And all they have to do is stop judging it. Stop being alarmist about nothing. Stop jumping to conclusions. Stop for ONE MOMENT, and think that maybe they DON’T know what’s going on.

  • I’ve had it myself, that when I couldn’t quite comprehend EXTREME discrimination against me by someone that was supposed to be teaching yoga at a parks and recreation class (it was more a class in the escapist balm of the silly pretentious belief that when you think there’s a danger that isn’t there, you are safe when you make out it’s there when it isn’t); and also happened to be a social worker.

    All she has to say as a social worker is that I might become violent, and they throw out a whole array of misinterpretation of EVERYTHING I did.

    If I walked out the same door as she did, which everyone had to at one point to get out of there, unless one would go all around like an Egyptian maze game, and it happened to be close to when she left, I was stalking her following her to her car, although I never took ONE step in her direction, and always went straight to my bike. Never was INTERESTED in going anywhere near her or her car.

    If I tried to share music of mine — I was gifted an expensive 1000 dollars synthesizer, and wanted to share the music produced, along with other piano music I recorded that I shared with all sorts of people who loved it: bus drivers, one convenience store owner who found out that her sister stole the CD because it was the only thing that helped her go to sleep, people at coffee houses, the prior yoga teacher at Parks and Recreation that said it was good music for yoga — and this turned into I was giving her special gifts, was supposedly dangerously in love with her (I’m gay by the way so it wouldn’t do anything for me if she showed up at my door begging for it, I also found her quite repulsively coy, although I admired her attempt to be committed to yoga).

    If after class, because I rode a bike, and had to put on warmer clothes over my jogging outfit before riding home, and was doing this quietly while she was talking to someone else, I supposedly was closely listening to what she was saying, as if I was obsessed with her. I also apparently was supposed to be deaf, or unable to comprehend English, because when I heard her moan about liking chocolate and having bought some, and mentioned later that I found out you could put a couple spoon fulls of coco in your oatmeal in the morning and get the same resonant buzz from the coco that chocolate gives you (without the sugar in the chocolate); she accused me of being mad at her because of her sugar intake (!?) REALLY! THAT because I was trying to share a way to have coco without the sugar, given her moaning as if she had bought some more of that stuff; and she and a friend of hers then proceeded to supposedly monitor how dangerously angry I got. I couldn’t care less about what she eats, what happened was that I found I had been talking on about stuff, and she mentioned that it was time for the next class to start. She also mentioned that she didn’t remember mentioning the chocolate. I looked a bit severe noticing I had been running my mouth, also could feel she was disingenuous, and this turned into (I can’t even keep it straight hardly)… Oh yeah, because she thought I could get violent, she had to make out I was harassing her, which I wasn’t, and she said that she had told me to back off and I didn’t. She hadn’t said ANYTHING at all, just in a coy way mentioned that the next class was starting, after saying she didn’t remember the comment about the chocolate. And if she HAD said back off, and I had noticed how alarmed, paranoid, or hateful she was, I would have simply completely stayed away from her. She ALSO mentioned later in a report, that she had to watch her sugar, and didn’t know I was paying such close attention to what she said (!?!?!?!?!??!)

    I have to add that I wonder was she on Zyprexa or something (I don’t know, it can make you diabetic so maybe you have to watch your sugar they would say)? Was she on an antidepressant (and or a sedative) allowing her to not question that she was jumping any available conclusions, and not even knowing what really was happening? It was just weird the way she misinterpreted anything. Was she on some sort of psychiatric drug helping her not question she was jumping to conclusions?

    It seemed endless.

    She had music on, relaxing music, this on a ghetto blaster device, but one of the speakers would spit out static, and so I wondered whether she heard that, which I mentioned, and she pooh poohed that, saying it was just “parks and recreation,” and didn’t want to buy a good one. I thought that was that, but that was later corrupted as well.

    She had been QUITE rude to me, when she mentioned that she had to have vaccine shots, and her arm hurt. This WHILE she was having a conversation across me with another person. So, being put in the middle of a conversation, I simply asked: “Do they really help as much as they say they do?” There’s a lot of controversy about vaccines, and she said (moaning again)” I’m not going to have a whole long conversation about it,” I didn’t either, I just was proposing questioning that that was the whole answer (we also have an immune system by the way, that works better when you live a healthy lifestyle), so I simply gently repeated that I think you have to look at both sides. Then she got really jumpy as if she was a mouse trap whose spring had been sprung and snapped out: “Those who aren’t getting vaccines are making the rest of us sick.” I didn’t say anything at all, not even: “Oh does that mean that we can not take care of ourselves and incubate all sorts of viruses our immune system could otherwise take care of, as long as we have vaccines!?” ANYHOW! There also are all sorts of other reasons for the diseases in our society amongst them the domesticated animals that were quaked in Europe that incubated many of the viruses our “civilization,” has that killed most of the indigenous people that were here already and had more respect for nature.
    I found that a bit offensive and thought about what to do, so I gently called the person hiring people for Parks and Recreation, and mentioned this, also stating about the ghetto blaster thing, because, out of kindness, I thought they might want to buy her a good one, which they then actually did; but this got turned into that I didn’t like her music (I hadn’t said ANYTHING about her music, and I actually had liked it, a bit). In reality, I had pointed out that her machine was spitting out static from one speaker rather than music, and she had denigrated Parks and Recreation as an organization not worth buying good equipment for when presenting a class for them.

    And then, after THAT, I hadn’t gone to class a couple of times, although I had TRIED TO get there, But I ride my bike: which I couldn’t do all the way there, because I had at that time bad eczema, which would be horribly exacerbated would my hands sweat inside the glove I’d have to wear because it was cold; and I could ride to a near by bus stop, and put my bike on the rack of the bus, but the rack was full of other bikes BOTH times. So this “social worker” who is supposed to be professional at that, actually maintained that I didn’t go to the next classes because I was resentful that she didn’t agree with me on vaccines, I supposedly also spoke against all vaccines when talking to her boss, which wasn’t the case; I had said I was getting e-mails all the time, and repeated what some of them said, not saying I agreed with it, just pointing out there are different view points, and I didn’t go to the yoga class to be told how to think about vaccines, or that I’m supposed to be a consumer for the drug companies. And apparently, she had a whole list of FALSE interpretation of my behavior, and still more I haven’t shared. When I’m AT CLASS anything she feels free to misinterpret is, but do I NOT show up, then again there’s MORE false interpretations. And WHY would she want me in class, when I supposedly was stalking her, trying to intimidate her and supposedly dangerously in love with her, but when I don’t show up I’m resentful. I couldn’t really do ANYTHING (couldn’t be there, couldn’t not be there) and she felt free to misinterpret ANYTHING. And this is a “professional” social worker.

    I had asked her once about a pose, because I was doing it wrong, I had held my arms incorrectly (probably because of the incorrect way she used her arm muscles, but anyhow), THAT was cleared up, and I simply said: “Oh, I was holding my arms wrong,” but then that got turned into that I supposedly stepped on her yoga mat. I don’t even know what THAT was, because if I had, I didn’t know it, and had she told me I was stepping on it, I would have been happy. Then in trying to “characterize” me which might as well have been a fictional character from some chase scene movie, that I have nothing to do with, she said I had stepped on her yoga mat another time. If I had, which I don’t know if I did, because so much of what she said didn’t add up, and I’m not cognizant of doing that, I would have been happy to know I did something clumsy, so as to not do that. I guess I supposedly was trying to intimidate her by stepping on her yoga mat. (!?!?!?!?)

    And she always mentioned that people could ask her questions the first class , so I had done that. Since I had shared music with the prior teacher there (who also took me to a Hindu Church meeting one day, when he passed me by in the car, and we had gone to a restaurant together), I thought I would share a CD of piano music with her. She wanted to play it in class point to me and say: “That’s HIS.”, which I actually hesitated about doing, not just because I don’t like being made out to be such an object. It was my own piano playing and music, and music seems to come from nowhere, from God, some involuntary place that keeps our heart beating, it’s not mine, and it’s not me in a way, anyhow, I didn’t want to do that. Also, one of the most DIFFICULT things to do composing music is to actually be able to listen to it, and know what kind of changes to make, is it to become what was there beyond time in the beginning. Recently there are pieces where a simple phrase, or the whole method of constructing a phrase has taken years for me to complete. So hearing my own music, and free to have such thoughts, while doing yoga, I didn’t know about that, and mentioned that I wouldn’t be able to concentrate. She then said that, as a teacher for parks and recreation, she couldn’t accept a CD from someone (which I actually had forgot, because I later mistakenly offered her another CD). We had a bit of a conversation, and I tend to run my mouth a bit, I mentioned a video from the library about yoga I had learned, and used for years, and the conversation was soon enough over. Only there was a friend of hers there in the background, who apparently convinced her that I was in her “personal space,” they started to make up erroneous ideas about me, she had friends of hers walk her to her car; and she mentioned that supposedly I was 40 pounds heavier than I was, that I was 2 inches taller, and that in talking with her then, I was trying to intimidate her looming over her. What I remember, which took me a long time to figure out after the whole assault of misconceptions, is that she was standing a bit bent over, her head down bobbling a bit, and my response was to straighten up, because I felt that the chi energy was somehow compromised the way she was standing. If someone wasn’t compromising themselves (and compromising their chi energy) to the whole plethora of compromising oneself to such false stereotyping, like an obsequious bobble head doll, then they are looming over her trying to intimidate her? And it took me a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time to figure out what the flip THAT remark of her’s was about.

    And I couldn’t actually watch what was going on in class, or it was reported that I was gawking at her. I couldn’t follow her vocal instructions because her voice was quite sing song, so I had to look to see what I was supposed to do.

    I don’t wear my glasses while doing yoga, so I had to get close enough to see better what she was doing, and then I was supposedly trying to get too close to her. And I was always in a standard place anyone could have taken.

    I had a bad back the last class of her’s I went to at all, and so I took a break from doing the poses (in fact I couldn’t) but I still did most of them, and for maybe 2 to 5 minutes of a long 55 minute class had my head on my hand, watching what she was doing, then I actually took the child pose for a couple poses, which she remarked upon, that that was something anyone could do when they wanted to rest rather than do a pose, or the pose was too difficult. THAT turned into that supposedly 80 percent of the time I had my head on my hand watching her.

    She also said that I didn’t do “anything” she’d tell me to do. I actually TRIED to do her poses, and afterwards realized that she went WAY to fast for me, and I just couldn’t follow, because it went against what yoga really does. Let alone the whole assault misinterpreting anything she felt free to, and acting like it was really going on. Her “friends” in trying to make me out to be something I wasn’t, and doing things I wasn’t, said that all I did was watch her, which is something she reported, along with making the statement (and this is a professional social worker) that I was “creeping” them out. THAT when I was simply slowly putting on my things to leave class, as I explain above, and having NOTHING to do with them. How much my clothing, my hair style, the fact that I didn’t have a car, and that I actually needed something that was more true to what yoga is had to do with that, you can imagine.

    And the funniest thing (if ANY of this is to be humorous) is that having been in spiritualism, and having experienced the belief that you can hear voices from spirit that give advice (although I found that the people in spiritualism were giving a bit too much advice) I had heard clearly a voice (and I know from whom, I think) telling me to not even ask her questions after class. To just go to class and not talk to her at all, but I found that annoying, because I knew that I was only going to class, and only asking questions, and that there wasn’t anything else going on.

    And so what happens was that I couldn’t process all of it, and one day came upon the idea that there was some sort of something going on akin to a Hollywood Chase scene. Which WAS going on, the way they were stereotyping me, making out I was some crazy person obsessed with her, dangerously in love with her, and could become violent.

    I wish I could go into what I thought was going on for one day, and tried to communicate in completely innocence and honestly, only to realize the next day it wasn’t quite what I thought at all, but it was too late, they thought I was I don’t know what. There was a restraining order, and I was kicked out of Parks and Recreation Classes.

    And I seriously wish I could go into what they would describe as dangerously “crazy,” because it’s fascinating, how it relates to non linear time. Little blips of what happened during the time of Stradivari (who warned me about her, I think) and Guarneri Del Gesu, who experienced people talking about the same kind of strange phobic behavior going on as goes on now, that in a tavern where refuge’s could come (he met his wife there, from Bohemia) as well as people that knew about the abuses of the Catholic Church that was then taking over the remnants of the Roman Empire (the Hapsburg Empire). And all of the power plays, and devious, wicked stuff going on. I’ll go as far right now as to say that there was a lady working at a local Goodwill, that made me think she had (you’d call is a past lifetime if time were linear, but it really shows we’re more than what we perceive physically) been a waitress-bartender in the tavern, and this shook other things loose it’s too much to go into right now. And I was disassociating from all of the EXTREME paranoia about me (thus the idea of a Hollywood Chase scene), because I REALLY just wanted to learn yoga, was NOT in love with this silly woman, and the rest. I HAVE learned yoga, all on my own, being given from somewhere no one can take away from me poses that help me extremely.

    But at one point, this person hiring others for Parks and Recreation, says, while I’m right there, as if I’m some dangerous machinery: “She says that he could get violent.”

    I’M supposed to believe THAT!? And I simply said nothing, because that’s how people respond, and it’s so baffling in a way, and I didn’t know how to respond, given that one can’t even really say a whole list of things. I wouldn’t be to possibly say that I’m not on “medications,” which correlate with making people violent, because that might mean I’m non compliant, and they can just patch on that I could become violent. You know how that goes. And he says that about me, as if it should be obvious that that then means that I shouldn’t be allowed to take their classes. And NO ONE mind you even looked enough at her supposed ridiculous report to see that if I went to class there’s a whole list of stuff, and when I didn’t go to class there was more of it, and there was NO WAY she could know WHY I hadn’t gone to a couple of classes. And I never made ANY advances towards he AT ALL. Told them that I just wanted to take yoga, and that was ALL. But as soon as you say something they can label crazy, how much of what you do that they don’t understand is free bate for what could be listed as seriously discriminatory, and also hate speech.

    I’ve come through this whole period now (this happened 2009 I think), and can understand the unconscious, the subconscious, and now how to work with it, and so the dream state where it’s animated is clearer; and I’ve been QUITE courageous with NOT allowing it to made out to be something that it isn’t, EVEN when it caused me extreme difficulty, and I’ve come through it, but HOW MANY people feel free to be EXTREMELY hostile, and the amount of Hate Speech, acting as if they have to be hostile to me because of THEIR OWN paranoia,

    or hearing:

    “He’s crazy,” or “He has to get out of here,” in EXTREMELY hostile ways, as if I’m some sort of danger I’m quite incapable of, to begin with, as it’s not in my belief system, which they again would say is crazy.

    I think that having a gun or resorting to violence is investing in the believe that it’s necessary and that THOUGHT itself creates the world where you would experience it as real. THAT’S labeled as crazy, as well. Which I’ve pointed out quite a few times. I believe you either transcend the situation, or you repeat it, depending on what you invest in. And such fear causes time to repeat itself, when otherwise you would be free of the cause.

    And what I haven’t mentioned yet about the voice I heard telling me to stay away from her. At another point, in a “hearing,” she actually sat there, and straightened herself up in her chair, took a pose, the same bobble effect again but this time acting sure of herself, game theory as if life depends on it, and states:

    “I know, he doesn’t hear voices, he sees things that aren’t there, it’s not reality based….”

  • Arjan, I don’t know whether you ever heard of Youri Egorov, but he was an acquaintance of mine, a world famous pianist, and I had three piano lessons with him in Amsterdam while I was at the Utrechts Conservatory (the teacher there, Uhlhorn, wasn’t anywhere as good as Youri, and of course acted like he knew better); but Youri got Aids, and decided to euthanize himself. That was four or five years after I had left The Netherlands. I just knew that he had died of Aids, but then someone on a youtube video of his mentioned how. Now it’s more than 30 years later, but the treatment for Aids is miles and miles better than it was then.
    Could you share some of the articles where mainstream media in The Netherlands reports how psychiatry made things worse, and the blackmailing, about antidepressants causing suicidal thoughts, forced electroshock? I’m in the USA, and you pretty much don’t hear hardly anything about such things, the media here is quite tainted, if not corrupt.
    Charlie Rose had a whole bunch of shows acting like they knew that mental illness had a biological origin, and that’s on PBS, the educational channel. And of course Torrey was on there, but Robert Whitaker — whose investigative abilities are accurate — wasn’t.
    And the attitude here echoes a lot the faux Christian attitude you see in the news reports against Euthanasia, and using as target cases like the girl I shared an article about. They don’t mention at all what psychiatric drugging did, I haven’t read one word about it, and then say that treatment could have saved her, in a very corrupt way promoting a brand of cures: as if psychiatric drugs causing suicidal thoughts, hopelessness, mind fog, disability, the whole list of side effect; that this can be cured with more treatment, when a person becomes suicidal, rather than it’s acknowledged that the drugs correlate with the spike in mental illness, the side effects, etc. I hate to say but in a way it’s legalized torture, with the facade of it being Christian kindness to cover up what treatment may be causing, and statistically has. Colonialism. It’s like economically destabilizing a whole culture, and when it’s gone that far, blaming it on the socialist regime that Allende or Mosaddegh were trying to start, ignoring how non violent countries like The Netherlands, Finland, Norway and Denmark are, that are socialist more; also ignoring how the interventions toppling those regimes favored big business interests over the people, and treating them (big business) in a way that the critics of Allendes’ or Mosaddegh’s initiatives say their government would have taken power away from individuals through. Thus behaving in the way they criticize socialist tendencies, while socialist tendencies have shown to create very non violent societies, but they conveniently ignore that. I recently heard a conversation along these lines from a very nice lady, but she made absolutely no sense, a sort of survivalist ignorance adapting to such a system at large. And then free market isn’t free either it’s controlled by the same big businesses. But psychiatry has CAUSED the spike in mental illness, their medications CAUSE chemical imbalance the alleged disease hasn’t been proven to cause; and when people become despondent, the same as such oppression will destabilized a society, there’s more push for the treatment, even when people become suicidal. And helping the people to commit suicide without proper attention to them knowing how the psychiatric medications may be effecting them isn’t exposing what big business is lying to the populace about either.
    And I wouldn’t insult anyone calling that insane, because insanity doesn’t have the ability to hold onto such corrupt constructed ideology. Insanity is a person expressing trauma rather than being controlled by it regarding what they are allowed to see as real or not. Insanity is such mindset breaking down. There’s a difference between the insistent non reality based thinking of someone that’s brain washed, and mental illness. One is more sensitive, flexible and human than the other.
    I’m not pro or con euthanasia, but I think there are a lot of healing modalities that aren’t acknowledged at all, and in the case of mental illness, we aren’t really talking about a healing modality, we’re talking about causing brain damage and addiction to controlled substances, creating a spike in mental illness rather than a decline, and then because of the ideology that destabilizing and disabling a mind is a cure and how you make people docile and impressionable, and when they’ve conformed they are cured…this is seen as a magical way to not have to even question assumptions of what’s called a healing modality or a whole society.
    That only helps the people that think you have to conform or you’re at fault, and that’s fascism pretty much, whether one thinks it’s going to save the world or not. And it’s like the missionaries that went to the colonies spreading “Christianity,’ as if the savages had to be converted or they’d go to Hell. Same mind control, you’re under attack by the Devil or a chemical imbalance, and so that excuses forced treatment, dehumanizing in the name of “science” whose ideology only sounds like science, same as the “religion” those missionaries were spreading around was Christian at all.
    And there’s an awful lot of “Science” that doesn’t add up at all. Go look at what the founders of electricity (and magnetism) said about it (electricity and electrons): Tesla, Heaviside, JC Maxwell & CP Steinmet. It doesn’t even add up to the assumptions being taught, and in the beginning Heaviside showed that what’s called free energy existed, because of the way electromagnetism really flows and resonates. Thomas Bearden has material about this on his website, also. When something is a wave pattern moving at the speed of light where time stops, what is it resonating in that has to be a matrix beyond time? THAT’S not even considered, although many energy healers might tap into what’s going on when they change the outcome in time of someone’s life. Like Jesus did. For-give. Free energy. Not for “Debt.” Or you have to pay your debts because there’s a limit to what one can give; exactly the excuse (debt) they tried to use to convert the savages for their own good (the debt was they’d go to Hell because of original sin, but wouldn’t if Jesus “paid” that debt). As if such debt existed, exists, or ever will exist; and now it’s a chemical imbalance….

  • I just read this, and didn’t know it was going on. I had seen an article advertised about a girl euthanized in The Netherlands, but with the way news feeds go, I never read it. But now having looked at it, this has to be one of the most egregious things I’ve heard of.

    The one story I read seemed to be of a girl that at a young age was pronounced depressed, and then within a short time had a litany of other diagnosis, and of course the article didn’t at all say what drugs she was treated with, or list their side effects. In fact all of the argument against euthanasia fails to mention at all what her treatment was for depression, and I haven’t seen ONE article listing what medications she was on (any antidepressant will have the side effect of suicidal ideation); and ANY “medication” disabling a person’s mind (which they all psychiatric medications do) can cause hopelessness in the end.
    But instead of any report as to exactly what her “treatment” was and any true assessment as to whether such treatment actually correlates with anything but the spike in mental illness we’ve seen since it’s been made out to be biological; there’s actually argument that they killed her rather than treated her, instead of that their treatment is what caused her to give up, to make her suicidal, to see no way out. There’s no real sane discussion about treatment at all, really, that I’ve seen.

    I find this so unconscionable, it’s like you can’t have a sane discussion about it in the media.

    On article is listed on a google search as saying: “Apart from being 29, Aurelia had no physical ailment.” Oh really? If she was on psychiatric medications she most certainly DID have a physical ailment, and that’s the result of the disabling “medications.”

    And NOWHERE does it say that anyone truly informed her that her problem might be the treatment, and nowhere does it say that true informed consent went on; and this then is all treated as being involved with “confidentiality.” That way we can’t really know what “medications” she was on, and it was a major effort to even know the real side effects of ANY psychiatric medication. Since when is lying to a person about the real workings of psychiatric medications something involving “confidentiality.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45117163

    “”When I was 12, I suffered from depression. And when I was first diagnosed, they told me I had Borderline Personality Disorder,” she says. “Other diagnoses followed – attachment disorder, chronic depression, I’m chronically suicidal, I have anxiety, psychoses, and I hear voices.””

  • Heh, I don’t mean to sound like I’m chastising you, I know how immeasurably frustrating it is. And you have Parkinson’s symptoms from the “medications,” and tried to get a job, but collapsed, started crying, and had to quit.

    I’d really suggest just watching Gene Egidio’s Videos
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9edB02jWP0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSX-gUmxQ3M
    He withstood a year of shock therapy as a 5 year old boy, and then had to be retaught how to be human, had to be toilet trained again. He was left so frail that he wasn’t supposed to do normal childhood things like play baseball. He could have died twice later on in life, but when his life supposedly fell apart, the stuff started happening again that psychiatry and the Catholic church had tried to suppress. And people just started healing in ways the medical profession wouldn’t say is possible, mostly. I’ve been watching the hands on healing parts of those videos every day, because to me it gives purpose to just being alive, also given I’m supposed to be disabled, dysfunctional. Well, then something that’s not supposed to be legit but changes people beyond what is supposed to be legit does, that starts giving me whole new insight.

    Awhile ago, I had started watching a lot, and started seeing the same energy from a tree he saw when his life supposedly fell apart and healing then could start to happen to replace such “functionality.” And I started seeing auras (something else Gene was found crazy to have seen) to realize that like the double split experiments where it’s stated that something behaves like a particle because it’s observed, and otherwise it behaves like a wave pattern; that because I want to see the healing energy that’s there, it emerges (because I want to see it). And now, after a period of integration psychiatry would again say is crazy, I have shed some serious physical problems; one of them I wasn’t even thinking of getting rid of. I watch those videos every day now, even thought there’s still a weird part of my mind that acts like my life is supposed to be about something else, or that that’s just too weird. And yet every day they relax me, and make me feel at home here, and that’s when the physical problems dissolved as well. And I’m really learning to let go of old gripes, that although entirely logical and justified, were only keeping me bogged down. Part of me is trying to hold onto the old gripes, but when I watch Gene’s videos I feel differently, and see I can let go of them and things will change in a different more efficient way.

    Try it anyhow. See if you like it.

    Here’s other stuff, I looked into. Stuff to not let get to you, anyhow.

    I’m sure that Torrey is also lying, although he thinks that’s necessary to save the world. He’s so intent on capturing someone’s consciousness, so stimulated thinking that he can convince someone of his produced ideology, that any concern they’d have he’d find some means to fill in the blank with more of his production. And there you have the converts he’s looking for. Propped up with adds from the drug companies. I can’t believe he actually was on Charlie Rose, who then purported that they knew that mental illness was a chemical imbalance (something the drug companies selling drugs to treat that ideology can’t conclusively prove, although one can conclusively prove that psychiatric medications cause chemical imbalance). And then it even was presented as truth here: https://charlierose.com/videos/25947
    Someone actually tries to put forth that you can’t treat bipolar without medications. This, despite the evidence that it’s often a RESULT of medications for ADHD, depression, anxiety or who knows what (PTDS, being gay, living in the ghetto, being a victim in a war, being poor, being intelligent enough to see that society isn’t working but not being able to process that quite, being made paranoid about natural responses to trauma, being made discriminatory and thus not understanding the language of the subconscious that would otherwise help you); or the evidence that when NOT medicated people do better.
    It’s just mind boggling how silly it all is, it’s really like a new fashion everyone falls for, except it’s ideology. People think they have to have a constructed mental answer, regardless of its truth.

    And then you have:
    https://charlierose.com/collections/3/clip/18615
    and
    https://charlierose.com/collections/3/clip/14403
    and the whole things:
    https://charlierose.com/collections/3

    I’ve seen a few times when people were involuntarily committed, and I can’t say that it didn’t happen in any of them that there wasn’t a gross misrepresentation of what was going on, and in most of them downright lying.

    Here’s something I found, with an excerpt quoted.

    http://psychrights.org/Articles/SzaszonTorrey.pdf

    The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI), a group with
    which Torrey is closely allied, also endorses “therapeutic prevari-
    cation.” The following is an excerpt from a NAMI Web site:
    Sometime, during the course of your loved one’s illness, you may
    need the police. By preparing now, before you need help, you can
    make the day you need help go much more smoothly. . . . It is often
    difficult to get 911 to respond to your calls if you need someone to
    come & take your [mentally ill] relation to a hospital emergency
    room (ER). They may not believe that you really need help. And if
    they do send the police, the police are often reluctant to take some-424
    Psychiatric Fraud and Force
    one for involuntary commitment. . . . When calling 911, the best way
    to get quick action is to say, “Violent EDP,” or “Suicidal EDP.” EDP
    stands for Emotionally Disturbed Person. This shows the operator
    that you know what you’re talking about. Describe the danger very
    specifically. “He’s a danger to himself” is not as good as “This morn-
    ing my son said he was going to jump off the roof.” . . . Also, give past
    history of violence. This is especially important if the person is not
    acting up. . . . When the police come, they need compelling evidence
    that the person is a danger to self or others before they can involun-
    tarily take him or her to the ER for evaluation. . . . Realize that you &
    the cops are at cross purposes. You want them to take someone to the
    hospital. They don’t want to do it. . . . Say, “Officer, I understand your
    reluctance. Let me spell out for you the problems & the danger. . . .
    While AMI/FAMI [Alliance for the Mentally Ill / Friends and Advo-
    cates of the Mentally Ill] is not suggesting you do this, the fact is that
    some families have learned to “turn over the furniture” before calling
    the police. . . . If the police see furniture disturbed, they will usually
    conclude that the person is imminently dangerous. . . . THANK YOU
    FOR YOUR SUPPORT WHICH MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO
    PROVIDE THIS INFORMATION TO THOSE WHO COULD BEN-
    EFIT FROM IT. (Jaffe, 2000, italics added)

  • Heh, um, must you?
    In order to expose really quite simple truths, that psychiatric medications cause chemical imbalance rather than treat them, that those chemical imbalances cause the spike in mental illness that’s current, along with a spike in violence, and then also loss of life expectancy, severe side effect, severe addiction to the “medications;” in order to expose this it’s really quite simple to share statistics and scientific evidence.

    But Torrey actually believes, and has been brainwashed to, that it’s the lack of medications, and that when things get worse, rather than it’s the medications causing the spike, that it’s the propaganda of the drug companies putting profits before health that’s the truth.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Torrey is on ADHD medications. I don’t know, he to me really does have difficulty concentrating on what’s really put forth, and resorts to programmed data, and ADHD medications would assist that. But I don’t know why he can’t see simple truths, I’m just putting forth a theory, and he looks to me like he has some stimulant going on.

    To say that he’s making himself out to be a deity, to say that all psychiatrists willingly deceive the public, to say that Torrey’s single goal is to create stigma against those whose life he’s damaged, or that he’s knowingly gas lighting them, when he probably simply doesn’t have the syntax, the intelligence, the ability to look past the drug company propoganda; in many ways that’s a gift to the drug companies who than point out: “heh, look, all they can do is mud slinging.” And I don’t think it’s going to inspire Torrey to look closer at what he’s professing.

    The poor man is highly brain washed, he actually believes he’s helping and that he can change the world, and actually believes a whole hoard of doctrines, that I can’t say isn’t normal for most people in society to have a collection of. MANY people believe that mental illness is a chemical imbalance, or genetic, and you aren’t going to convince them otherwise by throwing out remarks about psychiatrists or their instruments trying to make themselves out to be deity’s. As little as going back in history and trying to convince those believing if one doesn’t sacrifice an animal or a virgin or who knows what to the God’s the God’s won’t favor you. Those beliefs were incredibly ingrained, and you don’t change them by using hostile derogatory comparisons.

    Robert Whitaker in his books also clearly points out how diagnosis such as ADHD, such as depression or such as anxiety (and I think all of us get depressed at times, get anxious or have difficulty concentrating on whatever); that those are normal phenomenon (concerning ADHD, the family often don’t really see a difference when a person is medicated, anti-anxiety medications are highly addictive as are anti-depressants, all of those having side effects that can cause psychosis, and other “symptoms” of a mental illness); but when you medicate those people, they are WAY more likely to later on have another diagnosis, and in comes the whole trend towards bipolar the last years, which many of them fell prey to, and which Allen Francis had to admit was highly exaggerated, at least at time he had to; that’s all clear evidence that normal people end up being diagnosed with a SMI, just because the MHS got a hold of them as commodities for their marketing schemes.

    That evidence is there, but if in this site there’s the amount of chummy mud slinging, posts that those trying to cover up anyone finding out the truth can use to point out that we’re here all extremists, then Robert Whitaker’s patient highly articulate work ceases to be the help it could.

  • Let me count the ways, of suffering

    He’s suffering
    They are suffering because he’s naked
    And you’re suffering if there isn’t a court that makes people suffer for being naked.

    Suddenly all of Africa or anywhere else walking around like they were born are all suffering, and need to be civilized for indecency

    I think if he was left alone there would have been less suffering, because then he wouldn’t be disturbed, and there wouldn’t need to be an excuse for it (because others are supposedly suffering), and no one has to qualify their suffering when others aren’t

    This is just amazing what people don’t come up with acting like it’s their responsibility to do something about something (the way we were born without clothes, and then to cry out in order to breath)

    get over yourself

  • My point was that they now use the term “neurodivergent,” (or “not neurotypical”) as catch phrases for disorders that have not conclusively proven to be biological, that do better when NOT treated as biological disorders, and that when they are treated as biological disorders are treated with agents that CAUSE biological disorder, while the belief that the disease itself is biological in order is really only alleged.

    to start making references to neuro-typical, atypical, not typical, divergent isn’t scientific.

    And to make references to neurodivergence, as if it’s promoting diversity, while it’s suppressing societal diversity, emotional diversity, cultural diversity, experiential diversity, along with trauma, and diversity of insight; that’s really quite profoundly misleading, and if not an all out con job, shows clear signs of lack of interest in diversity itself and an inability to look beyond accepted ideology.

    To behave as if one is showing compassion against stigma by mislabeling something in order to promote “treatments” that cause what they say they are treating, this is not scientific at all.

    And to then have caused an epidemic and say there needs to be more treatment, and have such legal processes as Kendra’s law which force treat someone for an alleged disease, while causing the phenomenon that’s alleged, which then isn’t alleged anymore but caused by treatment but denied…….

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurodiversity

    And that kind of pretentiousness is promoted as kindness.

    Suppressing what’s labeled as symptoms for a period of time to have them re-emerge more than they occur when not suppressed, this is NOT healing.

    Suppressing dissent, when would it be looked at intelligently it becomes clear there’s something very valid going on, this doesn’t magically erase what the initial issue was either. No matter how uncomfortable people might get. And no matter how much they’d have to let go of thinking they are showing kindness in suppression, whether it’s chemical, emotional, political, psychological or what have you.

  • I’m sorry but I have to strongly disagree with the first sentence of this article. There was no question that Andrew was in a disturbed state!?
    Sorry, but to me, all he was doing was being naked, howling at the moon, and when police approached he decided not act intimidated. It later says he was charged with resisting arrest, but all the evidence given that is really reliable is that he was tasered, which easily only means that the police felt he was a danger, and didn’t even try communicating to him with any empathy, interpreting any behavior of his as a danger.
    To start an article with such a statement, already excuses the whole out of balance pretension of the society Andrew was in, and shows it isn’t so much about being human anymore, but not giving the wrong impression to go with an image of being “not disturbed.”
    If someone wants to be naked, and clearly non violent, and howl at the moon, what’s really the problem; and then after being violently assaulted with a taser, respond the way Andrew did, I don’t know where this isn’t quite understandable. I think there’s no question that he was being disturbed. Later on, when he says to a psychiatrist that he’d like to tell someone he’s a werewolf just to see how they would act, that’s seen as a sign of a disease.
    And I find the whole hoard of behaviors NOT seen as a sign of being disturbed that are EVER DAY overlooked without question by just about EVERYONE in society, in comparison to someone howling at the moon, quite profound.
    To begin with that when someone is naked howling at the moon that others IMMEDIATELY respond with the kind of alarm they do, I find that such people are quite disturbed. Most loud music coming from someone’s car, or the kind of riled up banter between people trying to act “cool,” I might also find more “disturbing,” and the decibel level and the intrusion into the sounds of nature that otherwise would be allowed to resonate probably IS more disturbing to the environment.
    I think it’s proof of a disturbed society, with the whole array of behaviors allowed people when they don’t get naked and howl at the moon. The whole decimation of nature, the ruin of lives for no other reason allowed by people coming up with strategies to make it in the economic system that would do more good for the planet IF they got naked and howled at the moon! And the “legal: system enforces that, and someone howling at the moon is seen as such a danger that they get tasered.
    It would really be amazing if society would simply get over itself, the very thought that its member are decent because they don’t behave in the “disturbed” way Andrew did.
    Someone naked howling at the moon gets tasered, then force drugged till he can’t stand it anymore and takes his life. In contrast someone ruining the planet through exploitation of its resources, but maintaining a hoard of $$$$$$$$$$$ in the bank, and maintaining the right to do that, and promoting that as having made it in life, they are given free reign. Or if you’re a bit more into having a different more moral image, like Bette Midler, you can blame all the violence largely illicited by the drugs falsely advertised and quite often forced on people being caused by de-institutionilization rather than the clear result, because then you get into the bandwagon of the other political party, both of them sustaining each other as member of the business party, the better of the two offering perhaps 5 to 10 percent of the change needed while any political party offering more than 50 percent of the change needed is blown away by the coalition.
    Is there something wrong with me finding this disturbing?

  • I do have to commend Andrew’s mother for keeping such good records.

    I also had a friend that told me how the asylum’s psychiatrist had threatened her with more detention unless she took a whole cocktail (or I think more appropriately called arsenal) of drugs; and she displayed how they made her shake. She then ended up committing suicide, shortly after, when she came down from that. And she had told me how down she would get after being committed, and I had warned her mother stating that if she was committed again, I thought they would lose her.

    But for the life of me, to try to get any record of what all happened.

    And no, her mother didn’t start a movement.

    And the girl herself prior to all of that had taken someone in, and then when he got difficult had him involuntarily committed, with help of his NAMI parents, all of this quite before she told me how depressed she got when she herself had been committed.

    She was livid when I criticized her for having someone committed. When she herself was committed, a friend of her’s was livid that she got out too soon, stating that she was still “psychotic,” this after they had her committed with quite a few lies (she supposedly was running around naked, which the police informed me of when I called them to say that her “friends” had trespassed into her house (where they called her case manager). I only did that after wards, because one of them had sarcastically suggested I do that when I told them if they didn’t get out of her house I would (call the police) so I knew they would fill the police with “stories” with lies; So I hadn’t yet to only later hear how they had already lied enough that the police were telling me untruths)) (((sound like the mental health system!?)))

    I mentioned to the moderator here that it would be “interesting” to see brain scans of people in such behavior, and how much that correlates with brain activity involving addiction. But then he pointed out that they would try to make that out to be healthy behavior.

    Anyhow, she was committed twice, and so fixed up that when they let her out at first her mother told me she wouldn’t even know whether she was taking her medications, and then she slid into hanging out with ANYONE probably, out of desperation, that she got raped, and when she was in the asylum again her house was broken into by people she had run into.

    The wonderful “Nun” processing her to get committed had her restrained when she couldn’t hold her urine because of Geodon (which is a side effect of it), which she couldn’t clearly point out (and made it clear such behavior was normal) to the nun. And when she said she was raped the nun said she was being too provocative. And then her sister later had to clear that up, that she had been raped. And in trying to get away from the people that were committing her, she had torn her Achilles tendon, which they didn’t attend to in the medical facility called a psychiatric institution, although they drugged her up so nicely, I’ve already related what happened when she got out to be committed again. Her Achilles tendon was ruined because they never tended to it in time, they told her they couldn’t ever fix it afterwards.

    And this is all very typical history of what goes on in an asylum, and then isn’t reported properly. And considered “normal” because “they tried….” “it was supposed to work….”

    And it becomes more easy to make it out to be a tragedy, because it was supposed to work.

    In the meantime, would anyone actually carefully talk to those going through it, or HAVING gone through it, you would hear these kind of stories over and over again. This one probably being a little bit milder than many of them.

  • You know, I forgot I knew someone, just from around, that also had had a brain injury when he was younger. He told me how he had water on the brain because of a traumatic brain injury. He had himself tried to tell a judge at one point, but that was just dismissed as crazy.

    WELL!

    It gets crazier, fortunately.

    I had befriended this kid because I had seen him just walking around quite a bit, and was at first struck with his ability to see beauty around him, and I actually was concerned, NOT because he saw beauty, but because….

    you know

    “society”

    He was supposed to be all wired up and not notice anything but whether he’s fitting into the mold, the pattern, the round the clock machinery… everything, and he wasn’t, he was completely in his own world seeing gentle innocent beauty.

    As I got to know him… and he had been put in the mental health system by his mother a nurse, who I think was in the habit of “partying,” and such as well.

    But I remember that at one point, I sat with this kid at the soup kitchen, and noticed that he wasn’t there, sort of. I’ve really quite faithfully studied spiritual healing, if that has anything to do with it. But what happened is that I saw what I now can describe as the free energy that comes from time as it resonates with itself. If life is to have any meaning at all, then the understanding of that will allow whatever gives it meaning to repeat itself till it’s understood, till it’s experienced, till the beauty of life has been felt and is there, where it came from beyond linear time. And that means infinite energy, and no resource being depleted. Or you might just call it a miracle, and I knew that perhaps he didn’t have that traumatic brain injury anymore. That part of supposedly linear time had been dissolved. I even mentioned that I thought that injury was gone, and he said: “I know….” in a very meek tone, like usually only a child can have: given that he wasn’t making too much of it, and that it would go with other poetry, with other realities of life’s play that IS truly play and that again usually only a child has the riches to experience…

    I had then actually tried to get him secure housing, and had found that, but then he had found something cheaper trading with someone else, and managed to mess that up, I think because he ended up doing drugs. Which he had gotten used to, and had been raised in. He was homeless for awhile, but then I think went back into the mental health system because he would get housing taken care of, that way. Or he just fell back into it.

    That’s a whole other thing isn’t it AGAIN!

    Don’t challenge their ideas and they’ll give you housing, if you go along and say that you’re ill.

    Up above it’s talked about as well….

    There CERTAINLY are a lot of homeless people that simply don’t have a home, and are too honest to be interested in bankrupting the US government going on the 500 to 1000 dollars of drugs they are supposed to be on, in order to then be seen as disabled, to then get shelter as well. And when that caught on, how many other people go for it, and before you know it half of the US population is zombie.

    Or are they already!?

    Wow what a plan Mr. Torrey. Put homeless people all on psychiatric medications and they’re all functional.

    It’s of course not reality based to simply give them homes, and have an economy (perhaps not so much run by the drug companies and their mob friends) that they (the “homeless” people) could be part of…..

    That’s of course

    um

    SCHIZOPHRENIC!

    Now everybody howl…..

  • This is a wonderful article, and amazingly calmly presented, considering the context, but then:

    It’s quite clear to me that Andrew Rich knew what was going on with him, also in regards what was labeled as “schizophrenia,” but the only way for him to get out of it was to be dishonest, he would have had to act like he believed he had a chemical imbalance, and that he had a disease, which seems given the whole affair not too difficult, since the whole system is more easily fooled into non reality based behavior than a “schizophrenic.” Which brings another thing up before I start listing everything non reality based about the system defining something else besides it’s own behavior as “schizophrenic,” a split brain, a rift from reality.

    Nowhere just about, not even with his mother at first, do I see any rational, grounded or even decent attempt to relate to what Andrew thought was going on with him, in fact when he simply states that he was thinking about telling someone he was a werewolf just to see how they reacted, THAT was seen as a sign of a disease.

    How can this be a disease at all? I’ve had it myself that responses I’ve had to life, which to me in latent respect seemed “psychotic,” or had a riff with reality, I’ve had it myself that I was quite unable to understand the meaning of the symbolic reality my mind created, EXACTLY to point out what might change my life, would I understand it. That’s NOT a disease. With our physical sense we see only ONE point in time, and unless we use our imagination we can’t navigate past that, and yet it’s exactly there that the mind can try to express underlying trauma, inner wounds, reflexes and belief systems we’ve taken on that were forced on us. And here, the latent ability to understand concepts that when understood or not might determine how our life proceeds, this is seen as a disease, and when the need to understand such expression doesn’t go away, it’s seen as a disease, rather than there’s decent, appropriate or responsible attention given to what resolves the situation. Oh, but then it’s not seen as a disease anymore!

    And with Andrew, it was simply that he wasn’t going to have them tell him that what was going on with him was something other than it was.

    Added to this, a society which allows bankers to hoard the money resources of a whole nation, and bankrupt it (while someone with too many cats or a house full of things they ever thought might have some purpose but later see no one engage with, they are called hoarders); a society that also finds the present economic trends more important than whether they are causing global warming, than whether any developing country moving away from exploitation can actually build a stable economy, than whether the voice of minorities or poor people that really suffer is really heard without saying they have a disease while trying to get them on antidepressants. And people are SO defensive about believing that survival is adapting to such a system, that even when they disagree with it, would someone express dissent they don’t understand, they become vigilant as seeing it as a psychiatric disease, strengthening that delusion when things inevitably get worse. Then empathy already is “schizophrenic.” And all of the other things, such as whether you are wearing clothes or not, not being able to say things others don’t understand which they think is harassing while it’s OK to be bombarded with commercials the whole day (online, on the TV, in your mailbox, while driving your car, while reading a periodical, would you have a telephone etc. etc.), would you be paranoid about something for a short time and have it go away it’s a symptom of a disease although if you aren’t so paranoid that you think we need funding for a military that can blow up all human life on the planet more than 20 times to kill the enemy along with us and everyone else, then you’re non reality based again and can be put in jail for not going along with it when there’s a draft; and then there are silly things such as someone out of fashion is seen as lesser although the fashion industry and clothes industry will change the fashion to get you to buy more stuff you don’t need while the stuff you already bought the first time stuff changed is already outdated and you could have spared yourself the cost then already, and we come upon such terms as “consensual reality deportment,” or “statistical based norms,” when would you truly honor statistics or what’s consensual and look at what it usually leads to in regards to what you’re supposed to adapt to, it’s more of the above, and NOT reality based; and not following it without appropriate concern is “schizophrenic, again. “Consensual reality,” in such a case refers to a “reality,” that isn’t reality based, which you have to adapt to as the current fashion, the current economic model, the current ideology or the current institution, “culture,” or mob, or gang, or cult or…..

    That’s reality based?

    When a schizophrenic goes along with that they are healed?

    Oh and yeah, when you give people treatment for “schizophrenia,” and they also are given privileged housing, the ones left underprivileged and without “treatment” are going to get more violent… which means they needs more treatment, rather than housing etc.

    And what’s going on with all of the “mental illnesses,” is that trauma is being expressed, and if trauma was understood for what it is, then the world would have to look differently at what it believes discipline is. Even for people who are criminal, even for tyrants, even for psychiatrists, because if trauma was acknowledged for what it was, rather than a means of mind control doling out rewards or punishments, being used a deterrent or encouragement (one of the rewards or encouragements being you’re one of the good guys and deserve the right to dole out trauma to others when they don’t behave); if trauma was acknowledged for what it was, then the criminal, the tyrants, the sociopaths and all of the rest would have grown up in a different society, and they wouldn’t have ditched their humanity.

    Instead, what would change things is seen as a disease.

    And sorry, but I don’t see it as a loss to not be fit for such a society, WHATEVER you say about me.

    But yeah, now in regarding “schizophrenia,” medications, I can say that they cause dopamine sensitivity, which leads to more relapsing. But I’m talking about something occurring because it needs to be understood, not because it’s a disease. So this isn’t really relapsing either. Is it? You give somebody something that causes a disease doesn’t mean you were ever treating a disease when you administered it, and it certainly doesn’t mean you need more leeway to administer it when it causes disease; but it also doesn’t meant the the “relapsing,” is of a disease that was there to begin with. Those are two quite different things.

    Does anyone see the irony?

    You call something a disease, which it isn’t, and you cause more of it with a “treatment” that in REALITY is more of the trauma that might have been what needed attention to begin with, and like magic, you can talk about relapsing or not, and about diseases or not, and…..

    You’re focusing on what something isn’t, and then determining when what it isn’t goes away; and in the mean time you’ve avoided the whole….

    All to avoid understanding what’s going on to begin with, because it might stretch your conception of reality, might burst the bubble of your comfort zone.

    And I never went asking for “medications,” wasn’t even forced on them, although people would have if they could; so I’m REALLY simply concerned with what was going on in the first place, and what has the whole time. And it’s NOT really a disease, and when you hit someone on the leg, and this causes pain because there’s bruising and damage, that’s a BRUISE, that’s also not a disease. Neither is it a malfunctioning of the body. Emotional wounds are NOT diseases. And the expression of such wounds, rather than having a riff with reality are more objective than what’s labeled as objective reality, because they deal with reflexes, with memory, with trauma, with beliefs, with emotions and in doing such deal with the intangibles that our core part of how we respond, and what we bring to us in life, regarding all of those. What it’s about. Whether a factory is making a certain product or not, when there’s a better design for it, and only the machinery has to be adjusted, this doesn’t make the fact that that product isn’t there yet non reality based, nor when the machinery has to be understood as to how it works. The product comes out of the factory. What comes our way in life is determined with how we respond to it…

    And adjusting that process seems to be grossly ignored, repressed even, would there be some message in “psychosis.”

    Watch a Shakespeare play, Read a Dickens Novel, Go to a Museum, Read Emily Dickinson, Listen to
    Mozart or Josquin

    Or write your own story, Go crazy….

  • Rachel777 I wasn’t even making that up as part of a plot in a movie with an evil psychiatrist, a Catholic psychiatrist actually thought that giving Gene (as a child) shock therapy (which he had for a year one a week as an inmate of an asylum) would loosen the devil’s grip on Gene, because the Devil wouldn’t like the sensation of the shock therapy, and then Gene could have a good life, rather than turning into an evil person. His parents even tried to explain this to him, that he might supposedly become a horrible person otherwise, something Gene didn’t want to become, other than that having no understanding at all of what this was all about, as if he could. He was just a child. And his parents didn’t know exactly what kind of torture he went through in the asylum, because the asylum managed to always make Gene look a bit presentable when they visited him.

    It just goes to show how wrong humans can be when they think that because in their minds they can add up what they believe is a construct of cause and effect, that such a construct is then true, and they’re safe. There HAS to consequently be something else beyond that, beyond such duality.

  • I’m glad you get something out of Gene’s work, because some people still think it’s “crazy,” I never saw Gene but for a phone healing session. And then nothing much happened, to tell you the truth, except he said something, blirted it out actually, that I didn’t understand. A friend of mine had bought his open eye meditation Video, and I had watched that. Theres a lady, Catherine Oxenburg, that comes lilting onto the Video introducing Gene, and she says he’s one of the nicest people she’s ever met, and relays how many people he’s helped in many countries. But there was apparently another “energy” going on, because just before I had my phone session with Gene, I was looking at a painting I made, and there was something interesting camoflaged in the painting, and then I heard Catherine Oxenburg’s voice in my head, quite sing song say: “you’ll miss him,” almost as if if she was advertising something I would doubt (which I didn’t at all) or that it was more her advertising that was important. I relay all of this, because in the interlope it became really important.
    To begin with Gene never said that he healed people, but that he helped them heal themselves. Anyhow, when I had the phone session with Gene, and I had only started to mention that I heard a voice, or something like that, and he immediately blirted out: “that’s not you,” and then went on. I actually didn’t know what he meant, and even wondered whether he was criticizing me painting, which he certainly wasn’t. Well. Years later, I did acquire a physical problem. I got prostatitas, and it can really bog you down when it’s active, and has other unpleasant side effects I won’t get into. So, I felt I should have another phone session with Gene. This was around 2001. I talked to his secretary, I would first have to write out a check, and then they’d let me know when I could call in (he then had one day of the week when he did phone session, I think); I had actually written out the check, and was going to send it in, but then I decided to watch his open eye healing video, and it did help me go to sleep. That is how the healing often happens with Gene, and as I was falling asleep I somehow knew that the physical problem would go away. In retrospect it’s an amazingly curious memory, almost as if you’re falling into an amazing lake of energy, of consciousness, something that can take away all pain and suffering, but then also dissolves the ego which is scary to most people, so you have to be pushed into it a bit because you might hesitate otherwise, or simply be allowed to be a bit out of balance in order to fall into it. In Gene’s meditation CD he tries to get you to see that at night while asleep the higher self is more awake and attends the schools of thought (perhaps where the word University comes from, which comes from Uni Verse, One song). You see, even while I’m typing this, I have in my head what I want to do, and when I’ve done it, then I have a feeling of satisfaction, as well as the drive to do it; in that other realm that’s not quite the same, whether you expand into something beyond that or you gain perspective that something beyond your ego’s ability to take control is creating an amazing harmony that was there the whole time or whether it’s dream time, it’s simply different. When I woke up the problem was gone, I could feel it, and it has stayed away. When I looked inside my soul, or whatever my spirit, my imagination would tell me about where I went to or what happened when the healing occurred, I saw that I went someplace where everything I would think is unforgivable about myself was washed away. I think one could scientifically call that Heaven, because I’ve heard from people with Near Dear experiences that our judgments of others simply don’t hold in Heaven, that they are impossible, and that would begin with how we judge ourselves. You could also go into quantum Physics, things like the uncertainty principle, how there’s entanglement, which might point out that different points of a matrix of time resonate with each other, or what is a photon that it doesn’t age and can’t be destroyed while having no mass; but if there’s any resonance with different points in time, when time becomes multidimensional rather than our belief that it’s linear (something our imagination can fathom while our physical senses only see on point in time ever), and if communication itself depends on photons or other subatomic particles that remain wave patterns, or other wave patterns such as sound, as well as particles; this all might be pointing out that there’s a perfection in what happens in life, and that when we judge people or anything at all with our ego, that we’re interfering, while we could look past our judgments and in seeing the resonance with time that gives meaning to everything allow what we wanted in the first place to emerge, rather than perpetuating what we didn’t thinking we’re fixing it and must be in control or the world will fall apart, which it consequently in the end does. That all might sound quite complicated, but I’m just trying to say something different than that Heaven is guarded by Saint Peter, and there’s an old man with a beard and a gavel waiting to see if you’re worth being allowed to enter, often supposedly depending on whether you subscribed to certain beliefs giving you such rewards rather than the beliefs add up in themselves at all.
    What’s interesting also is that Catherine Oxenburg has had a big problem because she introduced her daughter into a cult in 2011, and her daughter got stuck there. Her daughter is out of it now, though. I just saw that their planning a whole “Lifetime” move about it. And I’m just mentioning it, because when I tried to say something about hearing her sing song voice advertising Gene, he IMMEDIATELY blirted out: “that’s not you,” because he could feel that something was taking away my ability to allow my own quiet inner voice make the right decisions for me. Even when it was advertising him. Catherine Oxenburg is a really caring person, and can only be commended to have been interested in something as amazing as Gene, but that’s more than image or even physical healing or getting something in life. Or advertising what’s “the best,” and the most high quality like a Pepsi commercial or whatever item, commodity or issue used to promote a person’s celebrity, or the other way around. And there’s no comparison between what Gene Egidio did and this cult Catherine Oxenburg introduced her daughter into. I could go on quite awhile about Hollywood people myself, but never mind. And I hadn’t said ANYTHING about what the voice said, who it sounded like, all I had said was that I heard a voice, and he blirted out: “that’s not you,” and then continued. But when I did get the healing, and it was without having first a phone session, that again strengthened that I have it within myself.
    And to go back to the topic up there, the headline, I don’t think that’s pill shaming to somehow get a person to see they have it within themselves. I don’t think it’s pill bullying, it’s not pill stigmatizing, I don’t think it’s having a plot against the drug companies, it’s simply finding out what it is to be human, which has more “crazy” in it than is usually allowed.

  • I have had the same kind of friends, and all I can say is you can actually detach from them, and find that in doing so, you actually are not passing judgment on them, and are practicing that over-used word forgiveness.

    Maybe it’s just a lesson they have to learn in having demands, and believing they need help in their lives, and they have to go through the whole process of seeing how all of their demands are doing the opposite of helping them.

    It’s real easy for anyone to look at their lives and decide what’s wrong with it and start making demands, and then even find people willing to fulfill those demands (especially if they get money for it, or are made out to be charitable good people); but it’s another thing to detach from all of that, and actually see what’s there, or what ends up be allowed to materialize when you stop demanding something you think you need, because something that you never dreamt of could be allowed entrance instead.

    I just reread what you posted, and it sounds like you can’t put it on the line logically with your friend, for example mention that the diabetes and weight come from the “medications.” And then you said he started drinking again, that he smokes, that he’s self harming and has suicidal ideation. Honestly, I get so tired of “society,” and everything I see around me, that I understand someone with suicidal ideation, but how are you ever going to find out what could be there instead, how will you ever find out whether there’s some amazing solution to your problems just around the corner, and that that’s what the Universe does, as soon as you show a little patience, tolerance, and endurance, and trust?

    Some people just are relentless in focusing on what’s supposed to be different in their life, and why they are victims to that. The same thing, is that people that REALLY have if difficult, like those surviving off of 2 dollars or less a day in a developing country, having to work in a sweat shop or worse, living in a highly toxic environment and having none of the luxuries of life we have, THEY often see beauty and value in the simple things we’ve lost as a “society.”

    And being seen as crazy? I was highly involved with spiritualism years ago, and experienced truly amazing things that changed my whole perception of reality, but then you come back to society, and even the mediums themselves, and they have such limitations that their “reality,” is more psychotic than anyone with “schizophrenia,” so I went and studied spiritual healing. Come and find that there was a man named Gene Egidio, and he as a child in the late 30s simply had a gift, and healing would happen, and he would know things the world would say are impossible to; but then the Catholic Church got involved, and thought he was demon possessed; quite a few psychiatrists even thought there was nothing wrong with him when he was brought to them because the Priest had said he needed “help”, but then one who was “Catholic,” enough decided that Gene was “delusional,” because he saw colors around people (now called auras), and also that the Devil had given him special gifts; and with shock therapy the Devil might release his hold on Gene because the Devil would not like those unpleasant feelings shock therapy brought about. Supposed serious “religious” science. Gene was put in an asylum as a young child, and had shock therapy once a week; and then subsequently became normal (and he jokes about being Mr. normal afterwards); until his life supposedly fell apart later on in life, and he lost everything; but then the healing started happening again, you see, although at first when it started happening he thought he had gone crazy. He ended up helping countless people, which he talks about in the video I share a link to below. I had something chronic Gene helped me with, and he still helps me to this day, every day actually, even though he passed away in 2009. But when Gene’s life fell apart, he could have seen himself as a victim, but something else happened, you see.

    You can hear Gene tell his whole story about what he went through as a child, and then what happened later, he starts his story himself 12 minutes into this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9edB02jWP0

    But you see, beyond being a victim, beyond someone’s life falling apart, there’s something else there, beyond all of the fears, beyond all of the despair, beyond all of the hopelessness; and although it’s “crazy,” to believe something invisible beyond the world’s limitations is there, you might find that it is; and the whole “tragedy,” was really just there to show you what’s there beyond it.

    People are full of demands, and relentless about it, and determined in believing others have to see that as what needs attention, and then when they’ve created a whole following to do battle, they think they are happy. Maybe happiness is something else, and doesn’t have such limitations?

  • Sera, to address your original response. Because honestly, I also was “having a hell of a time,” trying to figure out where you were coming from, in this incredibly complex matrix, this labyrinth where knowing the truth can become blame for all sorts of charges. It’s really like being in a communist regime (which isn’t communist, that’s just a label they take on, communism is something else entirely) and when you know the corruption going on you’re seen as trying to destroy well being. And what do you do? And how much have you taken on fears of even seeing what’s going on given the reaction to it?

    I wasn’t trying to educate you, nor was I riffing on my viewpoint. Experience is something else. You have to understand that for someone who never was forced on psychiatric medications, never believed they would help and has always had a clear mind about them; to get into the world of mental health, and see all of the spooky behavior regarding psychiatric drugs, and the disabling, and not be able to say a fresh word about it without being called a pill shamer, or a host of other things (not being able to state true scientific data without being called one sided, not being able to state clear side effects of drugs, not being able to know what the statistics or scientific truths are about psychiatric drugs without being said that you’re interfering with healing) — this does become extremely frustrating and traumatizing.

    And no, I’ve never had to believe that psychiatric pills helped me, or otherwise be in trouble with others who were in control of my life. Over the years, and being put in shock enough in trying to say the simplest thing, I’ve learned not to argue with people about psychiatric drugs although I will quietly and articulately mention the truth about psychiatric drugs. That psychiatric drugs CAUSE chemical imbalance rather than treating one, and that’s how they disable the mind to repress symptoms that after an initial period of suppression end up coming back causing more relapsing, more disability and the spike current in “mental illness.”

    I have noticed quite a few people who are anti-psychiatry, who are anti-drugs, and yet they can’t get off of the medications that they often at first voluntarily started on, and in their war against psychiatry leave themselves no space to do that. And that’s in ways the same stuff that got them to think they needed the drugs to begin with, because otherwise they’d have to simply deal with themselves, and find healing there.

    People get an awful lot of attention from the system when they are compliant. And as such an ego state builds up, it inevitably can break, and they suddenly become rebellious against the system, but have no real help, and are thrown back into it. I had one conversation with a lady, who on her own stated that she wanted to have nothing to do with psychiatry anymore, that she wanted to find a lawyer and sue them; and then within the conversation took an 180 degree shift to saying that the medications kept her in line, and that the system was helping. Then she’d simply drop her idea of rebellion pretty much, wouldn’t engage in any practical talk about it. And in another conversation she stated that she wanted to get off of the medications, and would I agree with her, later on suddenly according to her I had a problem with people on psychiatric drugs, when she had brought it up. In other words I was supposed to be completely contradictory, and just go along with her whim of the moment, supporting either side at her whim.

    Although I’ve helped quite a few get off of their medications,even people trying to get off of their medications I’ve had to step away from trying to help when they would have unreasonable demands backed up by the excuse that they needed help to get off of them, thus having means to decide how I was supposed to be there for them. It’s a whole other responsibility to take getting of your medications beyond a whim, or a political stance, you have to deal with parts of yourself you might not want to, and I don’t believe that drafting other people into avoiding themselves by helping you works either.

    There’s that also, you either have to be someone’s “salvation,” or you’re a pill shamer. People have to find their own answers.

  • Hi JanCarol,

    To empathize with your statement, and I do incredibly, having seen many friends, and then also a whole society, disabled by the allure of believing the way psychiatric drugs disable your mind is some sort of bliss, which it isn’t. To be a social worker, no matter how wise to the truths of psychiatric drugs, and be there to sit and give someone the chance to safely in an office make them feel special to spill out their feelings, this is starkly different than having to deal with that person as a family member or a friend, and see their lives fall apart.

    It’s absolutely harrowing. Regularly, when a friend of mine ended up being institutionalized, this made me “psychotic,” being so in turmoil, I couldn’t hear the little voice inside my own head anymore, that might help me to not get blown out of balance by the whirlwind of ridiculously hard liner behavior encountered at the asylums. But I guess that’s it, that little voice is there, and it only becomes stronger when you finally hear it.

    But it’s absolutely harrowing, because if you have seen a person go out of balance, and really have compassion with that, and then you see that they are stringently bullied into being made to believe that the harsh intrusions into their civil liberties and their own body chemistry is their salvation; that while you had compassion with what was going on with them to begin with, knowing THAT isn’t going to help; and then you get the person eventually possibly as a survival instinct take on such lies; that’s already three different winds blowing in different directions creating a turmoil that would blow anyone out of balance it seems; and two of the winds in stark contrast to the logical movement the first was trying to allow.

    Maybe just detaching and blessing their path is the answer, because any rational discourse becomes bate for more of a feeling they are being attacked. Then maybe they might find their own path, their own inner voice.

    But having to deal with a family member or a friend going through all of this, and seeing with wide open eyes in real time, daily without the safety of it being a “professional” relationship, what that person is going through that’s a bit different than framing your thoughts with the anesthesia of I-don’t-know-so-I’ll-agree-with-them.

    Because it’s not about whether they are on drugs or not, and if they mimic such jargon, that’s what they are doing, repeating what they were told and equating a disabled state with happiness.

    Because the bliss isn’t in taking the drugs, it’s in going one step further and letting into the light whatever they were hiding from to take such disabling agents, because THEN they would see that it’s OK, somehow.

    Why people hold onto such guilt in order to create a whole society which banks on it, as if it’s some holy commodity, some pot of gold at the end of a rainbow of ideology that gives them the means to buy entrance into VAST illusions of being part of the gang and the glories thus offered!?

    It’s just a shadow, the real glory would be letting go.

    I think…

  • Sera, I reread what I said, and I can see it might be confusing. I actually agree with you about knowing that at a certain point people can be so accustomed, addicted and thus reliant on their medications that you simply can’t bring out what’s the statistical and/or scientific truth about psychiatry drugs anymore. Or at least not with any persistence. It just doesn’t work.
    It’s the same with a whole list of other logical things that involve fundamentalism or addiction.
    And it’s an incredible trap, because so often when someone wants to get off of their pills, and they haven’t reached equilibrium with their emotion wounds, or simply found an environment where they can safely get in touch with them, and are are going to be judged for it, their behavior can be again harshly misunderstood. When a more healthy environment would have allowed them to have a healthy brain that can express what otherwise would be seen as inappropriate, when it’s really what they need to express in order to heal.
    What I couldn’t stop myself from going on about was how confusing, overloading and traumatizing it was, that when I simply in a positive manner, with no intention but to improve people’s lives, not only found out that they responded with alarm, paranoia, and in the process tried to make me out to be disruptive or even crazy; but that there were all sorts of disruptive behaviors THEY had because of their “medicated” state. Even someone who had tried to get off of his lithium but couldn’t.
    I simply had to get away from the situation. It was shocking and traumatizing. It wasn’t even about trying to convince them of anything regarding whether psychiatric drugs helped them, it was because they were inarticulate, disorganized, and unwilling to see it. And I don’t think that I’m wrong in stating that their psychiatric drug use was a factor in how their “professional” behavior came out. And I don’t think that I was pill shaming when I simply stepped away from having to deal with them.
    All I had done was that I was positive about the truth, in the beginning.

  • Peace Sara, I agree with you.
    It’s just so incredibly sad. Like you said: ““We’re not pill shaming you. We’re just sick of watching people fucking die.” — Sera Davidow”

    One friend, who committed suicide, would be against NAMI and their pro drugging. And last time she got out of the asylum, having been forced committed and forced drugged, she showed me how she couldn’t stop her hands from vibrating after a psychiatrist had aggressively intimidated her with you either take this cocktail of drugs or you’re staying here. But then, at other times, she regularly had found a drug she thought was helping her (I didn’t argue with her about it), but she’d regularly get “manic” again and end up re-institutionalized. She had quietly told me, before her last affair with the asylums, in rationally explaining why she had tried to commit suicide (but failed), how extremely depressed you get when you get out. And so that’s what happened, even though I had warned her mother that I thought that if they had her committed again that they would lose her. And I had argued with her friends having her committed (who lied quite profusely exaggerating her behavior when having her committed) not to do it.
    this same girl that talked about how depressed she’d get after getting out of the asylum, had before this taken someone in to then have them committed when he was just being difficult at worst, and she could have just kicked him out, instead. But then, with his NAMI dearest parents had him committed. That I couldn’t argue with her about at that time either. In fact she got really mad that I did.
    If I’d try to be rational, she’d come back with: “You don’t know what it’s like.” And during one manic fling, in visiting her father out of state, she regularly went up to anyone stating she was mentally ill and needed help, asking for donations or expecting to work her way into their life. And when she started acting up, before she got admitted, or when she was in the asylum and still “mad,” she would make more sense about the dangers of being committed, and what the drugs could do to you, but then she’d get depressed, become more compliant, have given up after awhile.

    And after her suicide, her “friends” would regularly come up to me, ignoring that I had warned them EXACTLY about what happened, and act like I was part of their social cult. In fact, a notice about her death had been hung around the area she lived, and a lady who had given examples of trance medium ship at a local college saw them and had “channeled” a message from Lilly, stating of all things that committing suicide didn’t help her depression, along with going on prosaically about being together with them in reincarnation, with some personal messages. I only heard the message, because a friend of the channel just happened to put her hand on it during a phone conversation, having for who knows what reason it in her possession (she didn’t know Lilly at all). But when I told one of Lilly’s friends that the message said that committing suicide hadn’t helped her depression, and that it was a dead set, this “friend” that had had her committed said she hoped that wasn’t case.

    (!?)

    Is that another miracle cure? Will various scientific experiments promoting suicide, with certain trance mediums make that out to be a cure for depression?

    Sorry about my extreme sarcasm up to this point, but this is what happens when you simply say something rational about cures. Or rather recover from “cures.”

    Lilly’s mother, in a conversation with me on the phone, had stated that, along with extreme negative depictions about how negative Lilly’s behavior was and why she should be in an asylum, she actually agreed with me about the “medications,” but then stated that she had looked into rehab centers to get her daughter off of psychiatric drugs, and they were way too expensive.

    That takes “pill shaming” to a whole other level. Taken into account that to try to help someone by telling them the truth about psychiatric medications might put them in such a situation that there’s no help for them to actually get off of them. From “pill shaming” to being so irrational that its like believing that when you’re starving, dying of proper nutrition, or simply sick from it, you should be able to walk into a grocery store and ask for food without being seen as disruptive and then get kicked out or arrested.

    Peace Sara. I’m on your side.

  • And Sera, before you go back to portending that people haven’t read your article, or that we’re trying to educate you; I actually agree with you to not argue with people that say that psychiatric drugs are helping them; because that’s not the issue, if they are comfortable disabling their minds to that extent there’s something else going on that needs attention, and that’s why they feel comfortable disabling their mind. But I’m not going to renege on being articulate about what psychiatric drugs really do, would they come to themselves enough to see what they are doing to themselves.

    Neither am I going to allow them to muddy up my life when I could detach and do something that shows that there’s another way, which might be what the whole issue is. And they’re not going to see that either, would I continue to “not argue” with them rather than just stepping away from it.

  • Hi,
    I was just simply going over how shocking it was to have studied the real science about psychiatric drugs, and thinking that one could talk about that openly.

    It IS disturbing when you see someone’s behavior influenced by psychiatric drugs, but you can’t say anything about it without being called a pill shamer. When someone is drunk, you can say that.

    And when a social worker is jumping to conclusions making very bigoted diagnosis of people feeling free to misinterpret anything they do thanks to her suspicions and the DSM, and she’s on anti-depressants and also a tranquilizer, one can’t say anything about that either.

    Most people in an asylum can’t say anything either.

    Many people ward of the state, the same.

    Many people with the wrong family, or part of the wrong church, or institution, or what have you, the same.

    I’ve learned one can’t argue with someone on psychiatric drugs, just like you can’t argue with a hardened alcoholic, and that maybe you can engage with them in a conversation where the deep emotional wounds are let out, and they might then be able to see themselves what they are doing; but that doesn’t mean I’m not aware how the drugs are influencing them, and disabling their reactions and ability to relate to their own behavior, or history, or inner world. At a certain level of articulateness, psychiatric drugs just disable the mind too much. And that’s scientific. That doesn’t mean I judge those people and try to argue with them about something that they aren’t going to be able to deal with. That I’ve learned.

    It’s quite interesting that most of the historical figures called a genius have been labeled with one or other disorder that’s supposed to be drugged, rather than that “disorder,’ was their mind actually being able to relate to reality one step beyond society’s approval and accepted norms and truths.

    It’s quite mind boggling that these psychiatrists with help of the DSM are going to improve people who have tended to the well being of the human mind for centuries, that while causing a never before seen epidemic with the treatments prevalent (and not prevalent then).

    I’ve really just learned how to detach myself. And it’s not like I completely avoid people on psychiatric drugs. Someone who’s a hard liner for some ideology can be way more disabled in their thinking, and hopelessly so; but that’s what’s so sad about people on psychiatric drugs. With a different approach (which statistics has shown and science backs up), they could have found the strength to really break free of such programming completely, rather than disabling their mind when their dissent becomes uncomfortable and they don’t understand it, nor are given any help in understanding it, just those pills that disable their mind.

    And it’s a real shame. Because they are amazing people.

    And I’m not going to make an object out of some fill in the blank “symptom” that the psychiatric drugs supposedly tend to, all qualified by a diagnosis that’s not scientific, that while those drugs are causing a chemical imbalance. I might try to help a person see that they aren’t a victim, and what they think is a symptom is really just their mind trying to point something out, and when looked at closer unlocks reflexes in the subconscious that were getting in the way of their personal growth.

    If they have difficulty with that, they might like the psychiatric drugs disabling the mind, just like others self medicate, or the other indulgences. I won’t judge that, I won’t argue with them about that as if it’s the main issue, and I certainly won’t try to shame them about it (or any of a number of other behavior I’m supposed to shame them about), because it’s completely understandable, but I’m not going to say it’s a treatment that in the end is helpful to them aided by all of the false premises of diagnosis, chemical imbalance, genetics and social norms. I’ll make the space for them to go deeper and more logically into what’s going on. And if they don’t like it, God Bless it. It’s their life.

  • I have to say that this was one of the most shocking things to encounter, once I ventured forth into what goes on in places that seem to at an institutional level be there to support someone who is marginalized.

    My mind reels just thinking where to start.

    Having to deal with people in charge that are on medications, and thus apologetic to not only the system that put them on it, but keep their inability to be articulate maintained by the pills, which modulates into their administrative powers, and having to deal with them for the most basic things such as that money goes to mundane situations already there that will help rather than grandiose schemes towards something that hasn’t even been really started yet but has this glorious sheen to it.

    Can you feel my mind reeling with that loooooooooooooooong sentence I just wrote, trying to say something?

    And that I, thanks to mindfreedom, actually knew the truth about psychiatric drugs, and could state that as fact; the same as you might say that alcohol makes you drunk, that adapting to the fashion around you won’t magically make you a good human being nor that that’s pride, and all the rest of it, and wanted to share that to find out I can’t say the truth about psychiatric drugs in any positive vital way, which I was doing in order to help people, but that it’s then pill shaming.

    I was totally shocked. I heard then that the head of the organization – a different one from the one that needed a gleaming glory before money was considered to help – had children on antidepressants, and she was on them, and this was because her husband had committed suicide; and all of a sudden the truth about anti-depressants had become something that insults a family with grief when their father/husband had committed suicide. I didn’t say anything about perhaps being able to deal with sadness or hopelessness rather than dousing it with ant-depressants might have prevented suicide. Real statistics again have another story about anti-depressants. And then she said someone at the drop in center was just crying all the time when she was off of her anti-depressants so she had seen bad results, I was so horribly naive as to suggest they have a get together to help people get off of their psychiatric medications, No she couldn’t approve that. Later I found out who this other person was, someone that was really nice (energetic, positive), but more like the celebrities in Hollywood that can’t tell the difference between playing social games and real issues, and so go bouncing around in the spotlight. I can imagine she would start crying would her bubble burst, not that I really know what was going on with her.

    It’s still shocking and overwhelming to remember the kind of response I got, just to report the truth about psychiatric drugs. And the extreme resentments. Simply stating the truth or wanting there to be a facility to help people would they want to come off their medications (I had suggested a get together to help people get off of their medications, I hadn’t said forced, or coerced); that was turned into sarcastic statements like:
    “I’m not going around saying no one should take psychiatric medications.”

    And that’s what gets me:

    Psychiatric drugs correlate with an extreme spike in what they say they are healing.
    There’s no conclusive proof they are treating a chemical imbalance but there is that they are creating one.
    They are consistently forced on people without real informed consent, while being made out to be treating a chemical imbalance rather than honestly reported to be causing one.
    They correlate with suicides, violence, causing car accidents (that’s hardly reported), homicide, loss of life expectancy, an enormous list of side effect, etc. etc.

    But when in total they according to statistics based on whether someone has adapted to a society which doesn’t care to honestly report all of that above: when they “help” even then really only a minority of the people on such drugs; one has to start there, or you’re “pill shaming.”

    And it continued when I got involved with the anti-psychiatry stuff. I had never had facebook, but mindfreedom had a shield action, so I signed up for facebook, to get more involved. Right away someone else from that action started private messaging me, then she wanted to talk on the phone, and I thought I could help someone struggling against the mental health barriers. She’s call me all the time, and wanted to get me involved with other stuff she was busy with. Again I couldn’t express the truth, which again becomes almost too much to get into dealing with someone who seems to be a victim of the fact that she could heal, because of what she’d have to give up that’s lacking when she’s not a victim anymore. And they have it all regulated, they need their pills as maintenance because they were a victim to ever being put on them, and if you actually step into the amazing labyrinth of possibility beyond all of that, would they give their mind the freedom to do what it does without such disabling….

  • that was supposed to be:

    And I’m sorry, but I’m not convinced that the authorities that be are able to measure what empathy really would be.”

    I typed water rather than what. Somehow my brain new there was a “w” an “a” and a “t” and concocted that really quickly into water, without me knowing it, and being convinced I typed something (I think my mind knows water is a word), it was convinced that was enough. Task accomplished. It’s weird, because I sometimes find myself, in thinking about words, how to define or react to something, that in thinking of the word I’m typing it out in my imagination. Without keyboard or computer.

  • Heh Mik, I’m glad you made it, and didn’t commit suicide. Hang in there.
    I had a friend tell me how coming out of an involuntary commitment left her so depressed, and she said this in a really calm logical way to explain why she had ever tried it before.
    Then she got committed again, I warned her mother stating that if you have her committed you’ll lose her, and that’s what happened. Then I had to tell her “friends” that also involved having her committed to stop bothering me, who would come up to me like it was some tragedy, while I had warned ALL OF THEM about what they were doing when they had her committed. They were extremely hostile towards me when I was trying to warn them, and then they’d come up to me afterwards, after she had died, like I was going to feel sorry for them as if it was still some tragedy they were trying to prevent, rather than being instrumental in causing it. And their behavior was WAY more inappropriate than anyone labeled as “psychotic” could even be. How non reality based it was: just the way you describe the psychiatrist diagnosing because you politely stated that you were vegetarian but would still get meat with your meals after checking that you wanted meat free meals.

    I imagine that there probably were a whole list of things that they had already put down, other things that you in the same quiet respectful way told them you felt could be different. They have real problems with anyone that articulate, I think. And from what I’ve seen feel free to make up whole alarmist scenarios based on false interpretations of just about anything they can use for such purposes.

    It’s a really scary situation. If you’re not appeasing their paranoia about alarmist ideas, they feel free to make out there’s some danger.

    I’m glad you learned how not to even try to respond to them.

  • I think that people that are giving each other the freedom to do something that’s not by the book are going to be more empathic, regardless of whether the “medications,” cause that.

    And I’m sorry, but I’m not convinced that the authorities that be are able to measure water empathy really would be.

    I don’t think you create healthy emotional states by fooling around with natural brain functions.

    Am I allowed to think this, or is it going against someone’s rules?

  • What about someone that’s labeled as “schizophrenic,” that has behavior they don’t understand, behavior that’s completely non violent, who then has to deal with the mental health system, and NEEDS help? And yet when they are in their own innocent imaginative world, they are going to be called non reality based, something they can’t argue with the mental health system about without getting into trouble, if their mind is still looking for connections it hasn’t made yet, and might seem incoherent of psychotic. And then the whole “anti-psychiatry” legion doesn’t care to take that very phenomenon in enough to allow that same person to work out the very subconscious feelings that the mental health system discriminates against as if it’s a disease?

    What does that have to do with diagnosis or not!?

    Just fussing about diagnosis, could mean you’re still not taking that person in enough to help them not be abused by psychiatry, and you’re not showing that there’s another way. Just saying psychiatry is wrong, doesn’t show what works.

    Someone can get disability with a diagnosis, and then not have to deal with the society, the work situation, where they would be called crazy. They might eventually figure out what’s going on with them that way when anti-psychiatry taking over civilization might never have given them such freedom. I think there are quite a lot of people that have done that, but they would fall out of the radar and not be detected as having recovered or not anymore. And yet, whether someone has a job is seen as a sign of recovery or not?

    What if someone with such a diagnosis, goes through the whole process in order to witness what it is and turns it around, and if you witness “schizophrenia” in such a manner you show what it is for others who might be scared of it being a disease, which it isn’t. To just say there’s nothing going on with you, go chum up to the system and get a job, is also how homeless people then end up being treated. A “schizophrenic” might show how the whole system isn’t working, but not by criticizing, hating and judging the perpetrators of a non working society, but by showing how emotional wounds effect behavior, and if that’s understood they could be creating a society where the emotional wounds of the perpetrators of what would otherwise be a non working society ALSO are dealt with to change society or create a new one.

    Peter Breggin says that “schizophrenics” have spiritual experiences; well emotions are spiritual, they determine what comes your way or not in life, and that’s more objective than physical reality, unless you think that the future is a tangible physical reality already complete and warehoused somewhere. Emotions also determine healing. It’s also how people meld together to create a society or not.

    Just saying I’m not schizophrenic is not enough for me.

    Is a person that’s labeled as “depressed,” allowed to say that it gives them empathy towards the suffering of others, and that they then find they can be there to hear their story?

    And the rest of it.

  • No, that’s not completely what I meant. Because you again insert degrees of difficulty. If you would simply allow yourself to feel your emotions rather than using that word to describe reactionary behavior, then your emotions would be allowed to work for why they are there. I was addressing how you defined “emotional.” And you define the other side as responding with emotions, when in reality they are responding by being brainwashed, and it’s a lack of emotions rather than being emotional. They can’t feel that what they are going on about isn’t right.

    Do you see you are actually diagnosing emotions?

    Can you not do that?

  • It’s of course WAY too simple for the authorities given the power (or should I say privilege to wield power) to have someone committed. And it’s they are just too comfortable with all of their excuses that it’s this special case where someone INDEED is in danger, that not only do the amount of people end up being committed that add up to the statistics shared, but the whole system stays in place to accommodate all these “special” cases where someone is in danger, to add up to it being that before they were committed, they WEREN’T! In danger that is.

    And all of the lying.

    And the gross amount of aspersions put on anyone saying there’s no danger, as well as what would happen would it simply be shown where the danger lies, to in the end it being turned around by AGAIN a choice few, full of exceptions and special vezzi bugiardi of viewpoints, insuring everyone that the suicides are a lack of treatment in general, rather than a result of it.

    And thus it continues.