Wednesday, October 20, 2021

Comments by Nijinsky

Showing 100 of 532 comments. Show all.

  • Um, that was Shawn Mendes, for the second time.

    I was just walking around, as I’ve already described, at the Arts Festival in Grand Rapids, and did notice this person that resembled someone else, and even when I realized he wasn’t that person, was a bit interested in the comparison. I wouldn’t have even recognized Shawn, but for his reaction trying to stereotype me as if I had been, would be, or am disruptive because I ever attempted to make a spiritual statement about music, and healing, and his music, although at the time, as I’ve listed quite abundantly above, I was still digesting it all.

    I wasn’t even interested in him, actually, other than his resemblance to someone else of another caliber, and then he passes me AGAIN with Billie Eilish, and I had so enough of such that I said: “him again?” not even really knowing who he was yet, or interested. I would be please if instead of it being about him, it would be about art, and music.

    Here then is my original comment (the moderator was having difficulty finding it again to reinstate it, and I don’t want to trouble him further), I asked to have it removed, because I wasn’t so sure yet, but now, even if I was wrong, which I don’t believe so, it still shows how confusing those people can be, needing to be on some aggressive safari in order to fulfill the marketing agents wishes, thinking that “then” they will have something to say…..as if simply being human isn’t enough, and those that are…..

    Here is the full comment, after I was told, while the clock was ticking more than four minutes left, that time was up, the machinery contradicting itself….
    And yes this gets to be quite annoying running into these….. needs to become an icon, being exploitive of other people’s simple compelling lives – as if their lives are commodities for celebrity media exploits – to such a degree they don’t know what they are getting others, whose lives they are exploiting into anymore…..
    ‘We live in a society where we punish the wounded instead of treating them.’
    ‘Enough beating myself up,’ she realized. ‘I’m obviously not choosing this. But this means that whether it’s medication or therapy or yoga or meditation or whatever, I need to get proper treatment.’”
    Taking controlled substances that have INCREASED violence, to such a degree that one regularly reads of murder suicides, or someone inexplicable killing another that just sort of got on their nerves, with somewhere in the corporate media story it says they were being treated for depression, or the like, without even mention of the side effects that normal treatment with antidepressants causes, which are suicidal thoughts, and homicidal thoughts.
    That isn’t beating oneself up?
    What are they chosing?
    I have had SO MANY celebrities come into my life, with such embellishments or presumed help to mankind, with such behavior…..
    I’ve actually had interaction out of nowhere with both her and her mate, and I don’t even know if I hung up on him recently, when he called saying: “Hi my name is Shawn,” when they just started with promoting “mental health help” and I thought he was a telemarketer……
    And this link actually has a popup one can click on if you are in crisis… I copied the following without clicking on it:
    “Need Help Right Now? Ring the bell.
    “Click here if you are in crisis and need help right now.
    Crisis Resources”
    I don’t think that clicking on that link would help one find the help that is beyond the mainstream push, which statistically has caused more of the problem.
    In fact it might be quite UNNERVING.
    It’s already quite unnerving to see once again this hype about what really hasn’t been shown to alleviate the problem statistically, let alone be forced into it because of a “crisis.”
    I don’t know what to say about this. I would be MORE than pleased, if while getting all fired up to help the multitudes, they would FIRST take a step back and see what EXACTLY they are getting THEMSELVES and further more others into……
    And I could go all into this rather out of control behavior, of needing celebrity, and needing a personal life, and the stark extremely contradictory behavior resulting….
    I had tried to talk to Shawn about a song of his, and how miracles were involved, then he acted like he wasn’t himself, probably because he thought I was too “crazy,” and then she tells me when I happen to be on the same bus, and am going on about everything one has to process when they get involved with YES real miracles, and that does take a lot of thought says: “Jesus is really proud of you,” but now we get this…….
    This ad for what could EASILY dowse someone from ever being able to process it,
    !?!?
    I know they mean it kindly, and believe they are great helpers but…..
    And I have encountered a whole list of other “celebrities” or rather media bubbles behaving in the same uneducated manner……
    EXACTLY the kind of game theory that, I can’t remember his name for the life of me right now (before time’s up I remember its Laing), found is what caused his patients who were doing better, to relapse, after going home in “society” and having to deal with all of that….
    Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp making explicit sexual remarks towards me, while maintaining a career not being honest enough about such desires to have to deal with what might be considered lost market value, with Keanu Reeves it became: “that boy has such a cute ass,” when I was acting out the robot in Artificial Intelligence movie; Justin Bieber also was going on about my ass thinking he was being cool, during one of his drug run periods but not too high at the time to be around, when he and a few others I discovered going over to an International marketing building off to the side of the bus route, or that would seem the logical place (he’s ALSO now promoting antidepressants and saying that people should take their medications rather than admitting the difficulty getting off of them, and what about others who never wanted to be forced on them, do they need this “kind” advice) and I think I had actually informed him of a past lifetime that was significant….
    You wouldn’t even believe it, and I’m not making this up. I wish I was, it would have more imagination to it, than such game theory…….
    About sexuality, about image, about marketing value, about being an icon for others, about how to get points by corporate mania……
    And I’ve had it with this bombardment from media people. I live in what’s about the biggest small town on the planet, and these people can come in here, and act out, without paparazzi around….
    And I’ve just been trying to live a simple life about being human.

  • I have to laugh about this now, because I don’t really know at all whether that was Shawn Mendes that bothered me yesterday. I hadn’t slept, am still withdrawing from all of that caffeine for more than half my life, got involved with a spiritual group that’s really challenging, and found WOW I really have a lot to let go of. Was just taking a stroll in an outdoor art festival to find out what I can let go of.

    I thought definitely it’s now, and then I wonder, which probably means it’s an archetypal echo. And what bothers me the most. what if I AM mistaken, but for good reasons, trying to digest something regarding these media people that I’ve run into too much, and have shown interest in my life, because it’s actually compelling, which they want to exploit for media, thinking they are being helpful.

    What if I’m simply mistaken, and totally non violent. It’s decided you’re psychotic, a danger to yourself or others and…..

    If I go over what for example Brad Pitt hauled out, before he got married for the first time. He was hanging out at the same coffee house as I was, and he started having feelings for me, this is just after he had filmed Fight Club, or during. There was a lot of talk around of my life he must have heard, because I was open about having past lifetime memories of being Nijinsky (Vaslav). Because after having feelings for me, and not really reaching out in an appropriate way, he started a conversation with someone else that he knew i would overhear, and state that he didn’t know why “she” was mad at him, which he repeated at least twice: “She’s STILL mad at me,” and then speculated whether it was because she knew that he wanted to have sex with “Vaslav Nijinsky.”

    That’s quite bizarre already, if anyone cared to know about Vaslav Nijinsky’s life, and how it was marred by sexual exploitation to such a degree that for the insensitivity he was labeled as being schizophrenic. And then we have Brad Pitt perpetuating such insensitivity.

    He also used to play supposed jokes hiring gay escorts to who up to George Clooney’s shoots, and George Clooney did the same, and found pret in putting a sticker on Brad Pitt’s car saying “I’m gay, although I have a small penis” or something to that extent. And yet when playgirl had photos of him naked, he sued them. But he’ll hire gay escorts as joke and think more of such is fun What DIFFERENCE should it make whether someone is naked or not, and where does supporting the idea that this isn’t OK do to those that he hires as a joke?. ….When the stuff regarding the gay escorts was all over the news, a prominent gay escort service was put out of business. WHY would that be? Might it be that the same people who promote Mr. Pitt and others, and market such were a bit too much in the books that might be revealed? Could be, couldn’t it?

    And I’m NOT making this up. Johnny Depp also was making references to “Nijinsky,” and asked me for sexual favors I won’t even repeat here.

    AGAIN! I’m not making that up, that isn’t from any “psychosis,” I know very well the difference, in contrast to people mesmerized by the image and marketing decoys that such stuff isn’t going on. Or to people believing all sorts of things that promote marketing, but hide the truth.

    And I’m not supposed to talk about this, have this STRESS in my life because of their “image” which they think is their “value,” and their private life becomes insensitive exploitation of others who HAVE a compelling life exactly BECAUSE it’s compelling not something that sells to make one part of the mob. And “normal.” Or have some fit somewhere in a normal that’s not normal somewhere else, but normal enough within its guarded boundaries to create enough numbers to become a commodity as target for a market.

    I wish Shawn and Camilla the best, but they’re not making it overlooking what psychiatric “medications,” do to people, and if they were involved with a form of art that’s by itself more peaceful, has more perspective, is calming rather than aggressive and stimulant, they might be helping to create a door for healing that was supposed to be there in the first place, when someone looks for a respite from it all.

    But then this guy, with a blond girl I noticed later, when he came tramping by me at the bus station looking like he’s on a Safari, after not being able to leave me alone while listening to a Mozart Opera, when I wondered why he looked like the reincarnation of someone else, who was Jesus harp teacher. I actually said: “Him again!?” to myself.

    And about the jumble of “past” lifetime stuff. It really is just to show you’re not a body, really, that time isn’t linear, and that something else will take care of stuff. For all I know this supposed confusion (if it wasn’t him, which I don’t even care that much to know whether it was or not), it’s people to take with several grains of salt, or maybe stay away from, the way they take up causes (while maintaining utopian images varnished with beauty treatments and “fashion”) and run marketing bubbles thinking that’s how you help people, not knowing the difference between that and the truth about what goes into the money binge.

    I’ve seriously run into SO MANY media people, actors, that have this straight profile sexually, and yet felt free to think it’s proper indulgence to keep themselves pampered to come on to me for sex. And yet their image remains being straight, they can get the roles people with brave honesty don’t, or can’t because of marketing image, and then they talk about how tolerant they are about homosexuality, or diversity, just as long as they aren’t included to have to deal with the same stuff they act like they are sticking up for. And SERIOUSLY I have encountered that SO many times, that it makes me wonder whether my life is in danger would I simply be honest about it, because that exposes stuff the marketing agencies don’t want people to know, because what they use as commodities (the images they promote and advertise) that loses marketing value.

    And then psychiatric drugs.

    Well!
    “Psychosis” has SHOWN to be an honesty that transcends such game theory. R. D. Laing showed that to be the case.

    To have such honesty dowsed with psychiatric drugs, and all the symbolism that expresses true issues with the people themselves or what’s going on in society that needs attention pushed to the side rather than seen for how it might point towards what truly needs attention……

    Well, I’ll ask the editors to reinstate my initial statement now.

  • And I notice, I actually got so into “Stereotypes” with this marketing stuff….

    I might have mistook someone else for Shawn (that was today, not another time), and it teed me off.

    In trying to explain how his music evoked something involving a vehicle from another dimension, that can heal, that can bypass time that’s otherwise going round in circles repeating itself, that can teleport, because it resembles bleakly enough smoke when you put out a fire, or in my case, what I often saw would happen would someone hurl a missile at one of these cars coming by with loud music to stop that racket,which was not anything violent, just for the smoke (it’s the music often, that’s so loud aggressive and violent, not the mist, the vapor that’s released), which is beyond time’s grasp; and I’ve recently seen that vehicle turning up in a picture, when a portal to Heaven was opening, for someone to blossom into it, like we all will do when we lay our body to rest. And I’ve seen that it can do impossible things, which I won’t mention for sake of when it happens, it still will, whether anyone says you can’t mention it because it’s giving dangerous direction (a miracle is!?)….

    I’m going on about this, all ‘psychotic” enough so that it has enough imaginative lubrication to do what it’s meant to do, and Shawn says to me: “Trust me, I can’t sing….” Now I didn’t know actually that he goes through periods when he can’t sing, nor that that’s what he was telling me. So I was wrong, sorry. Really sorry. And he does integrate the healing energies, instead. So it’s a different kind of singing.

    Just sit relax, smile at a painting, or the view, or anything beautiful, and you can’t chest breath, and then you create the resonance for singing. But that’s more gentle and quiet. And I did mention that.

    But this whole swamp of confusion. Someone animating a tendency that MEDIA games bring out, me thinking that’s Shawn, so I see Shawn really is trying to avoid it, in contrast, although he’s stuck in it, from just trying to be art, itself……

    And so we all could end up there, and many have!

    And he WAS Joseph of Aramathea, perhaps he can’t sing, when he’s reminded of the great friend he lost…….

    But then it also could have been Shawn, maybe he wasn’t himself, I notice, after having to come back here, and you WILL lose someone who is not at home in such calculations of game theory and the media, someone who just wants to be where his nature as healer is allowed, and actually nurtured with interest.

    I do notice that Shawn made a big stink about people going on about whether he’s gay or not, and then even saying something like: “You WISH I was gay,” as if this is about them being wrong, not that gay people are tormented, and he’s free to deny it, because he doesn’t have that much of a challenges with it in life. And then I can’t but refer to has marketing agents telling him not to tell people’s if he’s at all bisexual…..

    I’m just walking around listening to a Mozart opera at an art festival. And opera that was written when he was 12, and I’m still waiting for a decent DVD of it. Although I’m happy there’s CD’s enough. I’m not worried about it, it’s not a bubble that will burst to dissipate, because it’s already shone beyond that.

    This guy that looks like Jesus harp teacher, actually, from Bethlehem is walking my way. Jesus had harp lessons by the way: Some butter manifested out of “nowhere,” and Jesus didn’t have an environment where he could talk about such things with the gentle reflexes that were always his nature, and then found a harp teacher he could trade dairy products with for lessons to honor the little gentle miracle of such manifestation, and he learned how to play harp, people would come just to hear him sing and play. That teacher became Couperin, who fluid music lead the way for Mozart’s natural playfulness…..

    THAT SAID, I’m just wondering who that is that resembles him, but is really too stiff in his gait, and I know it’s not, but still look with my peripheral vision, not interested in anything but comparing the two, similar and fortunately not similar. And the guy says to me: “get,” as he passes me. Which happens to me all the time, because people can’t separate their fear from spiritual energy that transcends it. They act like something is going on that isn’t.

    And then he passes me again, when I’m at the bus stop, could have been with Billie Eilish, who he’s just done something with.

    Media people can be so confusing and insensitive! ESPECIALLY when they think they’re taking on someone’s….

    Someone’s story, someone’s providence….

    And SADLY that’s called a song and dance number, as if that’s what art is about.

  • I’ve since had to ask to have my first remark taken off of this website, because of the kind of GRIP these people have on the media, and just getting involved with the truth one has to demure. Or Justin Bieber promoting anti-depressants, along with others doing movies no gay or schizophrenic would be offered, let alone favored, given Hollywood image games, although showing intimate interest in me, with also the same insensitivity to what they actually end up promoting, with their “privilege”…

    They aren’t the most wonderful people, if they were they’d know better, and have made a succinct statement about the dangers of what Camilla doesn’t think twice about getting others involved with.

    And Shawn wasn’t really honest when I tried to make a statement about miracles, which goes along with the rest of the dishonesty and game theory media games I encountered with such “celebrities,” stuff I’ve had to put on the back burner or get so caught up in it, I would have been destroyed like so many already. And Camilla afterwards says “Jesus is proud of you,” to me, when Jesus was really just trying to get to me to help me (which he has since), and they are in the way, as they are spiritually in anyone’s way who gets caught up with the system, when it isn’t acknowledged what these “medications” really do to the mind, while there’s no articulate care that they are listed along with mindfulness and meditation. Certainly also the diagnosis, or the supposed comfort (then one “knows” what it is!?) when in reality it that takes away the freedom of simply finding out how unique everyone is, rather than a number. Psychiatric drugs CAUSE chemical imbalance, and that’s grounded science, not the media hype that they treat it. If someone HAS had a youth that caused distress, and one’s nerves are on edge because of reflexes, and all of the activity that goes with it in the brain, possibly being chemical, one doesn’t need more of an imbalance regarding being able to respond unhampered with how one feels, when one wasn’t allowed to. Sedating the discomfort, or bypassing it with stimulant isn’t going to help, in reality. As if the brain isn’t spiritual, and doesn’t have the connection with evolution and the source of life to do what needs to be done.

    And it’s an old story, Shawn was Joseph of Arimathea, I “think,” and if he and the rest of the mob exploiting Jesus had really listened, Jesus could have THEN already found escape in art. Jesus played harp, but that had to be sold when there were financial difficulties, and wasn’t allowed to draw landscapes (although because of not being allowed, learned to draw in the sand, which helped to save a prostitute’s life) nor was he allowed to make clay sculptures from the oppression, then already from the Jewish “authorities” when he was a boy. Before he even reached puberty the “authorities” already tried to make out such art wasn’t God. And then his stories, his parables.

    And I’m here to give Jesus a home so he doesn’t have to disassociate from such a VOLUME of aggressive sound, or the media frenzy. And end up seeking refuge with what now is only history… or the excuse people have to make out someone actually grieves for such a loss is crazy, or even disrespectful, as if it couldn’t have been DIFFERENT!

    And it ISN’T going to be repeating itself…..

    And YES, I’m angry. Is it OK that I’m also non-violent by not repressing my feelings for media image!?

  • Thank you so much for this.
    And I’m truly impressed you can retain references and cite links.
    It’s truly difficult for me, I feel as if I’m getting so stuck in such prickly things, that I actually feel the pricks, like I’m in barbed wire.

    As Emily Dickinson refers to, regarding prickly things:

    The Child’s faith is new —
    Whole — like His Principle —
    Wide — like the Sunrise
    On fresh Eyes —
    Never had a Doubt —
    Laughs — at a Scruple —
    Believes all sham
    But Paradise —

    Credits the World —
    Deems His Dominion
    Broadest of Sovereignties —
    And Caesar — mean —
    In the Comparison —
    Baseless Emperor —
    Ruler of Nought —
    Yet swaying all —

    Grown bye and bye
    To hold mistaken
    His pretty estimates
    Of Prickly Things
    He gains the skill
    Sorrowful — as certain —
    Men — to anticipate
    Instead of Kings —

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Child's_faith_is_new_—

  • Could you share a link for the randomized brain study that: “found in 9 months these drugs cause almost 4 times more brain loss than what occurs in an entire lifespan”? Because I believe you, I’ve just never heard that, amongst everything else that’s already extremely disturbing and is supposed to be seen as “healing.”

    I also never heard that neuroleptics take more out of your life that cigarettes. Which I also believe.

  • I did a “search” today.
    Camila Cabello and OCD…..
    Seems like “every” magazine from “People” if I even remember that correctly, to who knows what has a story about Camila and OCD, and then the alleged brain disease stuff.

    You have to bruise yourself quite a few times, say on your arm, before that becomes an arm disease. Your arm telling you it hurts ALSO isn’t a disease. And then there’s the talk about meditation or mindfulness, but that STILL isn’t addressing a disease when they gets the “symptoms” to stop, as little as then when you stop doing what bruises your arms, your arms have healed of this “disease” you had when you wouldn’t stop getting them bruised.

    It is SO silly to me. Call it OCD, and get all of this attention, make yourself out to be this big icon for bettering the world, get paid tons of money in the meantime for being such……

    But don’t see that actually calling it a “Brain Disease,” and go on this blitz about it, that you endanger the lives of a whole array of vulnerable people, that are going to believe this exaggeration, think they need the “medications,” or even worse that too many regardless of whether they even want to be treated but being forced on it by others lose their voice, because it’s a “disease” and you’re a “hero” to not see that…..

    Oh you have OCD too, me too, we’re in this together, go get drugged up possibly, it might be part of it, maybe addicted for life, but I get points for initiating this “help”….

    Not that mindfulness and meditation aren’t amazing, but…..

    To advertise them in such a way actually takes away from the diseases they could heal, real diseases where someone finds a solution rather than getting trapped in a pharmaceuticly promoted maze….

    Yes mindfulness heals distress, anxiety, etc. but those aren’t diseases; as little as that your arm expressing pain when you overuse it is a disease. Listening to what that’s telling one is how one PREVENTS disease, psychiatric drugs actually CAUSE brain diseases, they don’t heal them. They don’t scientifically heal chemical imbalances, they cause them. And statistically have caused a spike in mental illnesses, an epidemic.

    Advertising meditation and mindfulness in SUCH a setting is like not pointing out that when you eat cherries dowsed with sugar or high fructose corn syrup, or baked till they have no enzymes inside of highly processed grains, that this hasn’t taken the healthiness out of the cherries that were meant to be there, or neglecting to see that you put them in a recipe that is unhealthy, and still make out it is “just cherries.”

    NO it’s not…

    What kind of “ambition” does it take to not get involved in such deception!?

    Camila and Shawn Mendes actually ARE the most wonderful people, Shawn’s songs are maybe the first songs in a long time, I enjoyed hearing when a car came by with their stereo on so loud I could hear it outside. Didn’t want to hurl a missile at the noise anymore to get it to stop. And Camila is honest beyond words, but even THEY end up being corrupted by this media blitz of the “mental illness” business…..

  • So, as the use of quotation marks would be proper grammar, she’s “dead.”

    I’m glad to say you can still find her here, the whole play: Call me Crazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6myXKiXGuUA

    Let’s keep her alive, then….

    I suspect that her creativity was a bit to visceral for the “entertainment” world, probably much like my friend Ernst Toller, who wrote several screen plays that we haven’t seen emerge at all. Someone who “knew” too much, and even said to a friend that if it’s reported that he committed suicide, it wouldn’t be true.

    God bless Paula for daring to speak the truth.

  • Case in point is how Camila Cabello gets as much media attention, as long as she’s pushing the mainstream push with the numbers test: “Also it took me literally four minutes, it’s like so easy,” and you can get put in line to get mind altering drugs that are highly addictive and their implementation goes right along with the current phenomenon of an extreme spike in the occurrences of mental illnesses. Join the crowd, be part of the mob. This from celebrities who need the mob. The very fact the psychiatric drugs are highly addictive increases stress responses, unless you think being made addicted to something that causes difficulty in getting off of doesn’t cause stress. Or Bruce Springteen gets as much media representation about his struggles with depression, and how he took antidepressants (or Lady Gaga, or Demi Lovato, or the sister of Glenn Close, or anyone-playing-the-media-game). Celebrity has become a drug, propped up by the image factory, Hollywood mansions, beauty treatments and the rest; but the horrors of the Columbine shootings aren’t really represented at all, in how antidepressants were involved. I’m sure that certainly the majority of PR firms, would someone even know the truth, they would discourage their expressing it.

    Regarding Columbine, the ring leader of the two boys that were the shooters was on Luvox, an antidepressant. And he actually knew how it would make him act, there was a case against the drug company regarding that but that was bought out by the drug company. I have to add that I again have anecdotal knowledge regarding this. Regardless of this being anectodal there was a case against the drug companies that was bought up by them, and there are the warning labels on anti-depressants that the drug companies tried to prevent from being there. I was on the bus one day, and I heard someone make a sarcastic remark about anti-depressants (his doctor suggested them, and it was clear the man didn’t agree with that), and so I chimed in with what and so many other people on this blog, know about them. This man on the bus then proceeded to tell me that he used to have a foster care facility close to Columbine, and both the boys in the shooting used to go to play pool there, and would tell their story, or at least part of it. They said that they had been bullied by jocks at the school, and it was so severe that they had gone to the principle, the principle had told them to go to the sheriff, and the sheriff told them to go to the principle; clearly nothing was done. And the ring leader of the two had told the man I spoke to that he had had his “medications” changed, and was on Luvox. And that he had hateful thoughts towards everyone. I don’t remember exactly what the man stated as to what everyone referred to, but it contained his family, his friends, his girlfriend and then maybe more. He had told the doctor, and the doctor had told him to just keep taking the medications. That was a few weeks before the shootings. During the time that I heard this story, Mindfreedom was asking for people to talk to Michael Moore, because he was making his documentary about such things, and so I mentioned that to this man, to do that, but haven’t seen him since, nor do I know whether I would recognize him. NONE of any of this has been reported in corporate media. Instead one of the boy’s mother’s has been on Ted-talks promoting mainstream treatment and drugging; and one can still read in the media regular accounts of inexplicable acts of violence with one sentence added: “he or she was being treated for depression,” and then more mass shootings being the call for more mainstream treatment that’s not only in collusion with the spike in the occurrence of mental illnesses but in collusion with the spike in mass shootings. And yet the information is withheld regarding whether or not psychiatric drugs were involved. Even whether antidepressants were involved, despite they have such a warning lable.

    There was one person who tried to expose all of this: Mark Taylor, who was shot during the Columbine shootings. You can read his sad story here, and how it’s been shot down, once again…. https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-mark-escape-his-22-year-columbine-nightmare

  • I don’t think that Camila Cabella knows how much taking on this whole helper image for those struggling with mental illness, and then including “medications” as normal procedures, when in reality they are scientifically and statistically more of a cause. Since their advent there’s a spike in mental illness, and the medications themselves have been proven scientifically to cause chemical imbalance, while the diagnosed diseases haven’t.

    I myself never have been on psychiatric drugs, not forced on them, and never convinced that they would help. But I have had a problem that came from “normal” stuff I had taken on the habit of believing I wanted or needed. Just drinking too much coffee, or before that smoking could, after being “diagnosed” cause me to have symptoms that could be labeled as psychiatric symptoms needing “medications,” and I reel wondering how someone who had been made to believe that the drugs that they have been induced into thinking will help them are actually causing the problems they rack their brain out trying to find another cause for, and also to control in a way that in many or most ways could be more the cause than a cure. Coffee or cigarettes aren’t doled out as medicines, one can discover what’s going on without the idea one is going against healing protocol. How anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medications and ADHD medications lead towards problems in the long run, added on diagnosis that are made out to be diseases rather than side effects, it makes me reel to wonder how so many people could EVER become aware of what is going on, were they EVER used to the “medications” thinking they needed them, and that it was “normal.”

    Coffee increases dopamine, and serotonin as well as interfering with gabba (the neurotransmitter that helps one feel tired); and so the adrenaline is affected as well. I had gotten in the habit of drinking coffee while in The Netherlands, where that’s a normal offering when you visit someone, and then had started smoking as well, which also affects dopamine. I got so used to it, and how the extra dopamine made me feel that I would resort to it just to feel comfortable. My Grandmother in The Netherlands already said that that was the first thing I started “screaming” for when I came over (I didn’t really start screaming, it was just a tendency to want something, like a baby does).

    All through higher education which continues in the United States, I would frequent the cafeterias and have a cup of coffee, to such a degree that when I went and ordered one from the worker behind the counter, I could hear one of them repeat what I said, in exactly the same tone, having heard it so often. But then I had real difficulty in my life, real betrayal I couldn’t understand from other people, behavior that was highly discriminatory and paranoid towards me when I wasn’t exploitable to their social confines along with other shocking signs that what my nature is as an artist is more turned into a commodity, an entertainment, a stimulant than it’s what it’s meant to be as an expression of the soul of all things and healing. I ended up drinking coffee the whole night (and smoking) sitting on my parents porch, then sleeping during the day instead, and really was just disturbed, needed someone to simply listen, just that, and that didn’t happen. Instead it was entertained that I could be seen as being “crazy” and my parents with a friend that was a psychiatrist got me on disability. The disability did give me the freedom to explore art for what it’s meant to be, rather than a commodity, an exploit, but I never understood what was going on the way I was supposed to, and from just being disturbed I started having what could be labeled as psychotic episodes, although even the supposed non-reality based thinking or reality that went on was expressive of and symbolized real emotional issues (trauma, concepts I needed to work out that I hadn’t been allowed to entertain or that weren’t given room to integrate let alone express themselves). And so I even became aware I had thinking that would be considered “non-reality-based,” although I knew the supposed “medical” cure for it would never work; I didn’t have the where withal to know how much coffee or cigarettes were in cohorts with the phenomenon. I couldn’t interpret the supposed “non-reality-based” scenarios to understand why they took the form they did, not having that kind of emotional support or therapy that would help to blossom such interpretive abilities, and in the end it took years and years. It took YEARS. First going into these episodes, not understanding it, but at least having a place where emotions could express themselves, although not understood at another level where it was called “schizo-effective,” and then dealing with the shock of everything from the push to get anyone with such problems “help” that in reality was more causing the problems, had no scientific basis in reality – in fact one could say my psychosis did have more scientific basis because it expressed emotions one needed to get to know in order to grow in life, and could determine my whole future, regarding mental health – and the whole societal phobia around it, and paranoia, and malicious mocking like one finds in the school yard with bullying. And the “heroic” fixation all around me to make out that forcing me on treatment I knew would ruin my life was critically necessary, as I watched friend after friend I encountered in the mental health system fall prey to such horrors. And I couldn’t figure out what was going on with, ended up without knowing why going into these periods, these episodes, where my thinking was off to a degree I wanted to understand it, didn’t have the insight or knowledge, beyond my desire to understand something I knew wasn’t violent at all, and didn’t really interfere with my life as it was made out to, when the interference was WAY MORE on the side of the discriminatory reaction to it. And there ends up being this incredibly vast array or paranoid, gossip and malicious bullying against anyone in such a vulnerable state. I just wanted to understand it, wanted there to be room for me or anyone going through it to express it for what it was, rather than making it out to be a danger it never was, and there were also spiritual and artistic things that could come through, thanks to the disinhibition from being “normal,” from following statistical based norms or consensual reality deportment, as if reality is something people could vote on, and make out that their system was maintaining it without looking further into what they were doing, and the results.

    I did start understanding the other side of it, how my “nonreality based thinking” expressed emotional trauma I needed to let go of by allowing it to be exposed and its reflexes out in the open I could let go of them, and I had discovered that coffee caused problems (hadn’t smoked for YEARS) and had actually stopped drinking it for almost a year, but I was was taking coffee enemas, which really is kind of daft, but I thought it was a healing method. I know it stimulates the liver, from the capillaries in the lower intestines, and could feel that from the beginning, but again I got quite addicted to them. Way over did it. And had some naive idea that the enemas didn’t produce the caffeine effect that causes the increase in the neurotransmitters, because I didn’t feel it like I did with drinking coffee. And so last Christmas, when I had worked hard on a very simple recording, I felt I needed something to calm me down, or make me feel soothed, and did a second coffee enema, and within a few days keeping such habits up was again in an “episode” that lasted two months. I wouldn’t have figured out the connection until I was told, thanks to covid and wanting to know whether I had antibodies whose test for requires doctors approval, I was told that I had high blood pressure. I never had high pressure, but then started looking into where it could come from, got a blood pressure machine, and after a coffee enema found my blood pressure shot way up, and then figured out I needed to stop, and slowly the realization of everything caffeine had been doing to me for years, and years (since my twenties, I’m now almost 62) that started creeping in. I also learned wonderful breathing exercises, really simply in taking air in fully and then breathing out longer than breathing in to allow the parasympathetic system the space to relax and heal the body; which helped also to let go of the reflexes the excess adrenaline had caused me to take one, from years of coffee drinking. And in a way it’s not such a big thing, that’s quite normal for someone who doesn’t have emotional support to start leaning towards such indulgences, and in a normal world, and I mean normal in natural world, not that that’s the “norm,” statistically in this society, but in a normal world people would notice that, and there would be an outlet, and concern and a person would be helped.

    But these celebrities in these times, in many ways, are more paramours for addictions. Selling commodities, getting points to be in the media from corporate powers when they support such venues, and thus the whole array of supporters of everything from who knows what to mental health, and the drug companies propaganda included.

  • And to get to the spiritual side of this, after this addiction (“sorry” I meant addition) to the whole Melange of “iconic” help that’s making things worse…..

    I had found a 20 dollar bill, in a certain place, deciding to give this to a homeless person.

    Well, in that same place, still having the bill waiting, I ran into something impossible, a healer friend of mine having decided to stop giving “psychic” readings, because it made her sick, was killing her, and being at the top of her field, actually liberated from the highest to sort out what REALLY makes a difference, which takes real investigation. I won’t mention which entity showed up, to give me the biggest smile that finally, after the achieved impact while “earthly” and even literary inspirations could finally do something with his investigative abilities that went to the root of things…… But it was a resurrection, which is normal and natural, despite people’s idea that such miracles are crazy….

    And then a day or a few later, getting off of the bus escorting me around there, if not on my bike, or I can put the bike on a bus rack, I was met by a person. I stepped off of the bus, and he said to me: “I’m less than you….”

    Being quite perturbed why anyone would say to me such a thing, not feeling that at all, and what he meant by such an estimation of value… I repeated what he said in a questioning manner asking for some explanation: “You’re less than me?”
    I also said that I don’t talk like that to people, and asked him why he was mad at me, and he said something about how the government treated him, and that that was discriminatory…..

    “That’s discrimination,” he said….

    Then he rode his bike away so fast that I couldn’t respond, or even offer him the 20 dollars, and I could have bought him a whole bag of food, also, suddenly having extra government assistance for that the past few months…..

    But there you have it. If just a fraction of the billions and billions of dollars that go into this act that drugging up the homeless population would make them part of a “working” society, or simply trying a different approach in general, or instead of putting money into fixing vulnerable people up with medications that if they help any, only help a minority, while creating a whole epidemic of the problem as excuse for more of what doesn’t work….. WHAT if that money went to help people to simply be able to live in any kind of comfort!?

    You know TRUE comfort, not an intoxicated state based on image, controlled substances to keep one in fantasy mode and mesmerized but such indulgence that are used as programming to keep people desirous of it, but true true comfort?

    Not I’m a celebrity and I am a hero promoting once again a packet including what’s shown to keep the problem going….

    Not I’m a politician and….

    We don’t even know what to say about that…..

    hmmmmm

    So I simply leave a link to it

    https://www.panarchy.org/dickens/circumlocution.html

    But true simple human comfort.

  • Annie, there’s this part of your beautiful blog that spoke,or rather resonated, with me.
    “Yet, when I look in the mirror, there is someone different staring back at me now. She is older, yes; wiser even, maybe. But still, there is a sadness to her, an unmistakable void. The mirror mocks me, asks, “Why are you still here? Why do you deserve to be on this earth, when so many others are not?” I have no answers, turn away. Although I have pondered this very thought a hundred times, lost countless nights of sleep to it, tossing, turning, I remain perplexed. Despite everything, here I stand all these years later, a soldier still fighting a war with myself.”

    I think we all have that, especially in this society, and if someone doesn’t have this voice asking “why are you still here when so many others are not?” there might be something wrong with them. Same goes for these silly depression screening questions: “Do you want to give up?,. “Do you feel hopeless?” The way society is, our society, with all its superficiality, there’s more maybe something wrong with people that don’t feel that way. Food is entertainment. A more enhanced form of communication bringing the globe together with one click becomes fodder to have pop up ads harass anyone moving through it, new and improved communication not making the communication any more fluid but the ability to harass people with ads when the computers from 10 or more years ago would be still able to otherwise be functional. The physical resources for the new computers punged out of Africa mostly, while they are put together in China which suffers another kind of suppression than all the wars in Africa to keep it’s products cheap and “marketable.” People that own houses are privileged to have the value of them in mortgage sold off and played games with to cause worldwide economic collapse. And to get from one place to the next one has to drive in vehicles that are causing global warming, something I don’t even want to get into, because the answer was there already when they discovered electricity (supposedly for the first time) and stuff too simple and amazing for people to care about was pushed to the side. And so here we go with an answer that no one is supposed to believe in, that was there before the gas tycoons got people addicted to has. What what was known about electricity when it was discovered. Just bear with me, because I can’t push this to the side, although it would seem quite off topic, but isn’t. Heaviside https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Heaviside and others, including theories of Maxwell saw this. Electrons moving at a speed where time stops, being wave patterns that resonate with other wave patterns from other electrons – same as musical vibrations resonate and can cause anything with the same resonance to vibrate – but being from a matrix where (oh these silly scientists) where time has “stopped,” once the resonance has come into being it doesn’t wear out, because time isn’t there to stop it (how can time “stop” by the way. If I can move from here to there but before that had to realize I was at one point before I got to the other, does that mean that “space” stopped as well for me to realize there was one point I moved from and a point I moved to?). If potentials in time resonate with each other that doesn’t mean it has stopped. You can look at black hole theories and see how all black holes resonate with each other, by the way. If time didn’t have potential in order to come together in different resonating ways (like chords in music) then what!? except people have to think further and actually think rather than “perceive” what A Course in Miracles tries to teach. Unity, zero point energy, perpetual motion machine that people have made, displayed, some murdered others suppressed by various means. Recently they stopped killing such people that would “interfere with world economy,” would one be able to make a machine that while it lasts gets “free” electricity rather than having to pay a company that charges for the electricity, but the whole stop global warming movement doesn’t even really acknowledge such machines. And if you don’t believe all of that there still always were other form of getting energy that wouldn’t damage the ozone layer.

    Anyhow, what I was getting at was that all of us have such thoughts. Why are we still here. I do myself. Why some poor struggling family doesn’t have the dwelling I have, why I have food when people are starving in Africa, why I can click on a computer and others have nowhere to call for help when bombed by the latest strategical purge of the militaries of the “civilized” countries?

    But I do go to somewhere deeper with my mind, it does resonate with time, I can let go of stuff and not cause it to repeat, and help all those people I might feel I’m depriving of a life.

    I do also contribute “money” to causes, though…….

    Which brings another thing up…..

    I started donating to Save the Children, actually because when I got on disability I had extra money, wanting to help people, ended up lending it to who I didn’t know was an alcoholic and thus a sociopath, never got the money back, and when I pointed out that the 750 dollars could have sponsored a child with Save the Children for two years I decided to do that, myself. I could feel the energy, at one point. Resonating with the act. One day I was at a church, outside of it which mostly could be safer, and there was a feather laying there, in the dirt. There was a phrase I had been playing with – who knows why – “feathers in the dust creep sideways,” I would have picked it up but had just read that one could get mites from feathers, so I gave it a boost with my foot, and the wind took it up into the air, where it started twirling crazy. It was just too “crazy” for there not to be something else propelling it, the simple joy that it resonated with for me to see that there was something more there than just “?” and then it went and landed or perched in a bush. Within a few weeks or so I got in the mail the beginning here of this poem. It was on a card from Save the Children, Christmas cards they shared with those who were sponsors.

    “Hope” is the thing with feathers —
    That perches in the soul —
    And sings the tune without the words —
    And never stops — at all —

    And sweetest — in the Gale — is heard —
    And sore must be the storm —
    That could abash the little Bird
    That kept so many warm —

    I’ve heard it in the chillest land —
    And on the strangest Sea —
    Yet — never — in Extremity,
    It asked a crumb — of me.

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/%22Hope%22_is_the_thing_with_feathers_%E2%80%94

    But you see, that also transcends the physical, the “perception,” of how things are or how they work, or why one would “deserve” something or not…..

    I did try mentioning this to a “Priest,” and although the bible talks about Elijah being taken up to Heaven by a chariot of fire, he tried to convince me: “it was probably just the wind….”

    As if the miracles that built the whole church were there to provide the safety to convince people such things don’t happen, because they might have to actually think thoughts otherwise, not doctrines…..

  • Willoweed, that very occurrence happened in a blog I just posted in again, concerning someone who took his own life, a musician whose life was canceled by the lockdown, and then of course a psychiatric nurse comes along with the standard plug, delineating exactly what you just shared, and how as you put it so well: “I wonder if a lot of people do not share what is upsetting them because they don’t want to be further insulted and blamed for their emotional response to horrible shit.”

    That’s beyond even how the drugs have been proven to cause more problem than help. If “antidepressants” help marginally more than placebo, if at all, and in the meantime can cause suicidal ideation where does this put even such data, highly corrupted to begin with to even get at marginally helpful. Placebo hasn’t been shown to cause suicidal ideation.

    Anyhow, this stuff is so ridiculous. You’re free to look at that blog here https://slippedisc.com/2021/03/ensemble-leader-39-kills-himself-amid-covid-cancellations/ and can comment yourself. That psychiatric nurse is the on blogging under the name “Sharon.” By some miracle there’s another person (Karl) saying he was worked in the mental health field for years, and has seen people come in with worsening problems because they were ever prescribed anti-depressants.

    It really gets to be something when it’s clearly shown someone had no place to turn, that once again we hear this song and dance number that “sounds” good although in reality upon real investigation is shown to be in collusion with causing the problem.

  • In regarding the second sentence containing the following: “enhance general medical, cognitive, and mental health and wellness.”

    I haven’t been to see a primary care physician in years, exactly because of this idea of “enhanced” medical care. But today I saw one. And sure enough, they are required to do a “depression” test. And one of the two questions the nurse asked me even before I saw the doctor was whether I have feelings of being hopeless, or giving up. All under “enhanced” care. In relaying this to my sister and having the space to actually express how ridiculous this was I finally found myself able to respond in a natural (normal) way. To begin with, given the way society runs, and the amount of insane petty nonsense everyone has to deal with, if you don’t at one point in any given day feel a bit hopeless or have the urge to “give up” I think you actually DO have emotional problems. It’s called denial. And for someone to have such feelings, and not really have the matrix of knowledge or experience to understand the feeling itself, and get this “enhanced” care which involves “medications” which turn OFF your ability to go that one step further and understand why you feel the way you do, as if that’s healing…..

    The other side of the coin, might be having a primary care physician who asks one: “Do you know society is a BITCH, the amount of petty nonsense we all have to deal withe very day, and do you actually feel hopeless and sometimes want to give up, because you SHOULD, that’s normal, it means you aren’t blinded, brainwashed or completely numb and in the danger of becoming clueless” that might be more appropriate, although I don’t really see it happening. Must be my schizo-effective tendencies.

    But it’s completely wrong to not even ask someone what they are upset about, and label the feeling a sign of a disease. And yet that’s consistently what the “medical” profession does.

    And when they have art therapy, is one allowed to express oneself there. What would happen in the asylum, if you wanted to draw the picture a baby being fed not with a baby bottle but with a bottle of pills with a nipple attached?

    A person is supposed to be happy to not be human, to not feel their own feelings, to push to the side the thoughts that explain why they are they way they are?

  • There’s nothing sane about putting “consensus” reality in a position that it determines reality. If reality were based on consensus it couldn’t exist, and so doesn’t in such a “form.” “Medicating” oneself to dowse the mind that actually is relating to reality rather than “consensus” reality, doesn’t make one sane, this isn’t “surviving,” unless one wants to exist as a being controlled by fear that has no soul: the one modern equivalent I can think of would be what happens in J K Rowling’s fiction when one is kissed by a dementer.

    And all the worries, concerns, conceptions of loss and the rest disappear as soon as one simply realizes there is another way. Regardless of how impossible it is made out to be.

    In fact the beginning of your article delineates exactly what causes most of psychosis, and that’s the urgency of the fears of the people around anyone who has begun to drift AWAY from consensus reality, into what might remind them they have a soul.

  • This is all good and well, and I enjoyed reading the article immensely, while listening to Rameau https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGT54QKqOPQ&fmt=22. The problems I see are not so much sociological as defined here, but often religious. Immigrants often come from very religious backgrounds. Have often spent hours praying, and often were left with nothing but that to give them hope. I can imagine their distress in seeing the kind of flagrant abuse of privileges they find in an area where none of the difficulties they encountered exist, and yet they liberated themselves from such problems with simple thoughts of hope and faith. They did not invest in more violent and and more diverse ways of intimidating people to behave according to set rules, while provoking even more dissent against such rules in areas where they exploit resources but not such rules as an excuse for security forces that work.

    I think that THAT causes most of the distress, not toxicity, not climate, not poverty. The one problem I see is that religious environments do often dissuade people from finding the resources they need in the wilderness, actually. And so depending on the economic system to give them such resources DOES cause distress, especially knowing that they would never cause such distress in others they have left behind, and are confronted with doing that or….

    Or doing what?

    The development of corn, for example, a grain that was first just grass but with the help of prayer, time was condensed, and the culture was blessed with the one grain that was nurtured by faith and became a commodity, although “science” would say that it was selective domestication. I disagree. And I don’t see rice, nor wheat, nor potatoes having such a link. My mostly invisible friend has shown me this also, mulching in plastic even, how there’s hope there. I hope this helps.

    Nijinsky

  • Sorry but I’m going to have to disagree with the whole output.

    To begin with, after Joshua Bell’s father got how much money to stick guys saying they WERE already homophobic full of not even pins and needles but “medical” supplies to monitor their reaction to what they didn’t like, as stated already, and would from the abuse called pornography (look it up, as if the bad guy wins, and how much he hurts his partner is salvation) have a stimulant reaction be founding having “internal stressors,”indicating that actually they were homosexual.

    I would suggest that anyone that can read this whole article do a word search for “internal,” and see if they get stimulated, or just bored to death….

    The whole thing is a blinking mess insulting nonsense.

  • What a load of balogna going on too long to have any meaning beyond the first or second scroll or so, and one takes the knife to make it fit in the sandwich.

    To begin with, we’ve always had immune systems, going around in circles, insulting them, all of them, in the process, and then making out we ever had anything to do with how it came out, when we had to finally step out of insulting circles and the immune system, this is “science!?”

    Maybe studying the domestication of cows, and then how all domesticated animals (including lab workers) have been incubating what kills off those that knew better beforehand in the process might bring one to a better understanding of those that did survive, despite knowing better, and being amongst most of those that haven’t or don’t survive. No one asks them, to begin with.

    Oh, and cows give out pus in their milk as well. We have pustules ourselves that collect what it’s made out should help with healing but that’s called “inflation,” along with all the means to stop it. Not Wall street and it’s whole “federal” reserve, but pustules and how much everything is already going to go up again, but the very stuff in our bodies meant to heal is called “inflation,” is called inflammation. Try listening to THOSE bubbles, and stop going on about what you have no idea isn’t going to turn out, and call it “science!”

    And if anyone cared to really study “pustules,” they might find out they have been doing what this RNA replication does to create fragments that liven up the immune system, and have been doing that for ages.

    Or is it going to continue that those that know better are dedicated to science as “trolls” with antennae!?

  • Excuse me, but it’s a “minor” turn off that the temperance movement did what!? If that could help stereotyping that’s a Fable to me. To begin with, 1 )you take away a person’s environment to find out by themselves what something does to them: temperance isn’t going to do that, that’s little doses to keep a person guessing till they’ve been told 2) then there’: they can’t find out what something does to them and keep doing it, thanks to “temperance” 3) not everyone is the same, people have different reactions to different things, how are they going to find out by themselves 4) I have to put something here as four, so why not add that it might change the size of vital organs, not the brain or anything like that, but the ones that are thought of most often 5) and we’re back to the scarlet D!

  • How do you know the thumb sized bug with speckles was of this world? I’ve had one looking just like the guy “Cana-duh” from Peter Pan movie, with Levi Miller. It snuck right back into the drainage pipes of a bathroom, though. Wiggling, just wiggling wiggling its watoosi that looked like it had been stuffed full to the brim with degrees from Harvard, Spam, Oxford and the rest of those Ivy Leagues!

  • Sam: Well. That’s not completely – although I appreciate your appreciation – the truth about: ”those free of it aren’t as much part of the epidemic” because with Peter Pan logic, it’s really those that are free of it that are the most part of the epidemic, because they are the most capable and able healers. Regarding he-who-shall-not be named and you-know-who. But then there’s He-who-has-no-childhood as well, you see? Those that are so humped up they really don’t attach any significance to who they are responding to.

  • It’s concerning to me how much might easily be manipulated here! And would that be easier from one side, just.

    Look into so much, to begin with the movie Born Free, where it starts because there was a man-eating lion, which who said that that’s what was going on. I’m sure they don’t like lions there, when they eat livestock, but does this mean in the US that we should murder anyone that partakes of McDonalds fries. I mean in Iraq now it’s mostly drug wars, rivalry factions of it and the US goes in there and is manipulated to keep it going as if it’s fun.

    And beyond that, where does this help those that actually have a diagnosis. Actually, mind you, not Hollywood beatrics (beatitudes with tricks in there) coming in from nowhere wanting to know how to act out without actually caring about art.

    And the amount of….

    When you go to your doctor and say you have a tooth-ache, but he thinks that it’s a bone fracture from an accident you haven’ t had, but that’s what the book says, and he’s allowed to make you have surgery to fix it, or put your head tied up in a vice when you have to make your living by the skin of your teeth…..

    And you can’t tell the doctor what actually is going or you have Anigsognosia……or rather Anogsognosia. but I mean Anosognosia….

    And I’ve heard this on the bus. A guy had really bad cancer in his head, went to the hospital they’d supply after the treatment that was offered, him being a vet, and they detached his jaw – ask him how that’s done, if you can find him – in order to get into this head, and there they found the cancer that had been in his head, upon entering that place was gone. And I mean of course upon entering that place, was gone.

    Of course I don’t believe him now, but what about then, and WHY do people feel free to lie to anyone with such sensitivity!? And watch their reactions, and keeping going at it till the person is totally confused and not there. This isn’t just psychiatry. It’s anywhere people get together, even at churches!

  • American psychiatric facilities are marketing ECT directly to consumers using false information.

    Should be

    American psychiatric facilities are marketing ECT directly to consumers, using false information.

    With the comma there can be no legal conflagration that you’re saying that the consumer is using false information rather than the company that IS; not only using it but exploiting the need for relief, the need for parental consent, the need for inequality in housing: true medical needs, nutritional…..

  • I would think that the life we all of us have been given or the life we had gifted to us or having been given life it would make more sense to not even talk about impossible things whiile making them out to be real. Either that or give them a wand or other device and tell them they are free to create life with it since they think they also can create “death.” Or maybe without wand or such. Maybe they can conjure it up without any instrument. Maybe even try something as mundane as eating or breathing…

  • Must the discussions in here always dwell on what goes on beyond the physical senses in closed spaces, and behind closed doors?

    Because after awhile, it will end up being so logical that all of us might be needing ashtrays, various other enclosures to meet our needs, in keeping this up and so forth.

    Ooops!

    I mean: “Because after awhile, it will end up being so logical that all of us might be needing ashtrays, various other enclosures to meet our needs in keeping this up, and so forth.”

  • I read this harrowing tale, and then also most of the responses, and I’m sorry but I have one question, which I think must be asked.

    After all of this, isn’t it perhaps better that you get yourself off of all psychiatric drugs, and find a different answer to what’s labeled as OCD than drugs.

    To me that whole story does on all its different levels depict the simple fact that psychiatric drugs cause chemical imbalance and disable the mind.

    I’m not saying that anyone had the right to project their ideology onto you, or tell you what drugs you should be on rather than you were listened to regarding your on viewpoints, I’m simply saying perhaps it’s better to find an other means altogether.

    There’s a site called my good habits https://www.mygoodhabits.com/.com that has good advice on nutrition, and emotional healing techniques; and there are many other alternative sites. I think that’s at least worth looking into.

  • “in the absence of hierarchy humans can’t be human”

    Oh really?

    Those with a “schizophrenic” diagnosis (I even wanted to say “definition” for some reason) actually do better when they haven’t been under mainstream treatment, in fact no treatment at all means they “recover” better. That’s then not human? Same goes for the whole psychiatric industry and its “heirarchy,” those free of it aren’t as much part of the epidemic.

    I really don’t think you’ve defined human, and you’re truly doing what the mental health system does, as well. You created this subgroup and given it hegemony. And decided people not going along with it are non reality based, same as such phrases as those that don’t go with statistical based norms, or consensual reality deportment. Next you need an enemy to make out those not honoring honorifics are putting the group in danger. And thus being human is being separate from all that is human or everyone that is, which hardly could be human.

    You stated:

    “I see discussions are continuing to go around in circles.”

    And then you display exactly what goes around in circles.

    “An authority in any hierachical institution is legitimate because they have been legitimised by the institution to be an authority, and authorised by the institution to command power.

    That’s exactly what doesn’t make something legitimate. That makes it condoned by the institution, but that doesn’t make it legitimate.

    And then you say:

    “Walk into any institution and you can attempt to cause mayhem by pointing out the arbitrariness. And miss the whole point of an institution.”

    So the point is that an institution condones authorities which aren’t legitimate, but then they are legitimate, and this is the point of institutions (at least people think there’s a legitimate authority but that doesn’t have to be legitimate for it to be legitimate)…

    So basically if an authority actually is based on truth it won’t work in an institution….

    Yeah, goes along real well with sacrificing goats, virgins, wars against a fabricated enemy to make people think they are in danger and wage mind control, and psychiatric drugs.

    Because: “in the absence of hierarchy humans can’t be human”

    And thus you’ve also fabricated an idea of hierarchy that doesn’t create a structure. Or that truth only exists if it’s agreed upon, because then it’s institutionally involved then.

    And I’m not at all saying that with brainwashed people, when you can’t get them to question their beliefs, their consensual reality deportment, their whatever’s going on that pretends to be the answer, the title, the definition of who’s who in their nice tight little web of community holding together their closely knit gang; that you can’t just go along and call whoever Doctor, or Priest or Guru or President or Emperor, or First Lady and then maybe make some change and introduce some ideas that from their softness create light that would spread.

    Because it’s NOT about “Doctor” or whatever honorific, so it makes no difference to use it or not, which shouldn’t be why you have to use it either. And neither does using it mean you’re not free to not use it or even not really believe in it when you use it, other than it’s not what it’s made out to be anyhow, so it doesn’t matter.

  • From a medical profession prescribing drugs that are manufactured by businesses that function many ways just like a drug cartel, to medications that cause what they are said to heal (a chemical imbalance that causes the symptoms of psychiatric diseases) to an FDA that suppresses much of what can’t be copyrighted for profit, and you’re talking about snake oil as being fraudulent. I think in many cases snake oil is more healthy.

    And it’s the same “Doctors” that would and still do deny the healing Jesus, and other healers accomplish, Charlie Goldsmith to name one currently active you can investigate, and see how many people he’s helped, and his TV show. That you disbelieve that is your business, but to start making swipes at New Age, and pumping up said “profession” really …..

    The ones pushing their doctorate really aren’t the ones you mention, in fact they aren’t even interested in it. Doesn’t even apply to them. And to mention: “Ancient Quantum UFO Ching” as if that disqualifies everything the same way a psychiatrist would talk about hearing voices, seeing things that aren’t there, having emotional problems when such stuff isn’t given legroom to express itself etc. etc. etc….

    The Chi energy from acupuncture you can’t dismiss anymore, and then there’s their herbal knowledge, the amount of evidence there is that there was an ancient culture that shared technology and built structures that with our present technology would be extremely difficult or impossible, and could have come from aliens this can’t just be ignored; and simple things like the wave-particle duality and how observation effects matter, that shows we aren’t separate from the things we observe, and thus those around us if nothing else points out how emotions effect our lives…..

    And further more, those really aren’t the people calling themselves doctors, or even demanding to have such honorifics, they simply do what comes natural to them, share it with others, and it helps.

    I’ve have stuff healed from such people. I had prostatitis that a man, now deceased, helped heal. Because he showed me “somehow” there’s a place where everything I would think is unforgivable of myself can be washed away. Interestingly the body I saw in that place was from a past lifetime. Regardless of all of that what the medical profession doesn’t really have an answer for went away. And this man mind you, as a child had such healing take place, but this scared the Catholic Church thinking it was a sign of the devil, and he was put in an asylum, giving shock therapy for a year and then forgot all about it till years later his life fell apart, supposedly, and he went back to being himself rather than a piece in society’s machines. And yes, he was deemed as having been given special gifts by the devil, and that shock treatment wouldn’t be uncomfortable to the devil who would loosen his grip on the boy. You can hear his story here, starting 11.53 into the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9edB02jWP0&fmt=22
    And then there’s https://caroleveretthealingsanctuary.co.uk/ who recently helped me get closer to (yes Jesus) and shed the infection in a tooth that wasn’t supposed to go away, and I was told multiple time to get a root canal for instead (I wouldn’t have done that either, I’d have had it pulled, see documentary Rootcause https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrhyAAUNw6M and other very articulate scientific exposés that the dental industry suppressed and from being known because root canals are their biggest bread winner or who knows why, like the drug companies and psychiatric drugs) Carol then doesn’t say she heals anything, she brings down the higher energies.

    That’s two definite healings that the medical profession couldn’t have accomplished for me, and further more I’m truly simply interested in healing that’s spiritual and then beyond that healing regarding “symptoms” of a psychiatric diagnosis I shouldn’t have to go on more about that here. And I could go on for pages about metaphysical or “impossible” things happening when I was “psychotic.”

    And then there’s Charlie Goldsmith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-gQ6oBDpB4 who simply pointed out that feelings are meant to be felt, and when i realized I was pushing them away because they hadn’t been accepted, I got away from reflexes like drinking too much coffee that, although they expressed that I wasn’t allowed to express my feelings, didn’t give them direct leeway for legroom. Carol’s healing method where she asks people to sit quietly for 20 minutes twice a day also helped for me to see what my reflexes had become, what I could let go of, from little scenarios of dreams I could interpret.

    And then there’s many more

    Leaholof http://leaholof.blogspot.com/

    there’s Dean Kraft

    http://www.deankrafthealer.com/CaseHistories.html

    There’s Michael Stellitano

    There’s many more

    And what’s interesting about your sarcastic post is that many “New Age” people think they have such abilities when they don’t, or that they know better, as do many “Christians” deciding such things aren’t from God (who knows why, indoctrination, no honorific from the church, same as the pharisees, same as what happened to Gene Egidio)…

    But there’s simply is a difference between healing that happened, and those condoned with an honorific. To make snide remarks about people who are needing no honorific, never having asked for one, and simply are healing, but then to be made out to who knows what because they heal and want to help people, and can, and should be allowed to without hindrance, and that means those that have been told they can rather than accomplishing such feats have to show a little curiosity or some humility some reality based thinking rather than indoctrinated programming as their identity, their excuse…..

    And you can go on an on, maybe you need to, but you’re not going to convince me.

    And at least on this site I can share my viewpoints, my experiences, share links for those interested, and not be dismissed because I don’t have whatever title, or who knows what….

  • Yes, that’s true JanCarol, but there is this issue in the news about the future first lady, and I don’t know..

    Maybe there’s more click bait mentioning her, and someone who might be steered the wrong direction from the “medical” authorities would stumble on this site, and it might save them from years of having to deal with a disabled mind from “treatment,” instead finding something that does help.

    I’m trying to think of a funny example how the title of a book is important. But I sort of fail. The Scarlet Letter for example. If that was called “Historical Concepts of Sin,” that rather falls short. Or. “The Minister that Didn’t Know Where to Put it,” also….. Or worse than that, since we’re talking about honorofics, which “Minister” is one of. “Minister Dimmsdale and his word-that-also-starts with-D-but-might-cause-trouble-being-mentioned,” and if you want to be less colliquial there are also the letters P or L. Neither of which the Minister had to have embroidered on his robes.

    And Why honorifics start with D (doctor) P (professor or priest) or M (man…oops I mean minister)!?

  • JanCarol, Sara has already stated that this argument is about whether honorifics use is appropriate in general not about whether anyone has truly worked hard to reach that level when it is in practice, but that should show in their work, not a title enforced by an institution. And her asking whether there’s a better way doesn’t mean she’s putting beliefs in your mouth.

    That an honorific denotes respect is questionable, certainly in this day and age, which it is currently, when so much including education is controlled by corporate interests. Colleges in the USA became fronts for investment institutions in the early 80’s: not exactly investment institutions but fronts for them.

    I stated how it works regarding the economy, and how the whole process of who gets “respect” can be in collusion with poverty. Something that deserves being noted in this blog where the emotional symptoms of poverty can be diagnosed as a psychiatric disease, to cover all of that up. That also becomes more than simply taking charge of one’s life and working hard, and having a piece of paper giving one “respect” beyond those who are seen to have personality flaws that they don’t or/nor can’t. And what I wrote wasn’t at all ‘merely “poverty vs. riches”’ it was a clear explanation of how an honorific can be in collusion with creating poverty. In fact to bypass all of what I said in order to make claims that I was lacking nuance truly on your part is a lack of nuance.

    “We called him Doctor; he earned this. It was more than a piece of paper, it was his growing identity. Something which made him stand out from the pack – his family, his friends, he achieved all of this on his own.”

    You also state that

    “He remembers standing in line to get shoes, ashamed that he had to beg for them. ”

    That’s a lot of concern for “identity” and whether one has enough money or a piece of paper. And a society that engenders shame depending on whether you have to stand in line to get shoes really has extreme problems with what pride would be would it be there instead of “shame.”

    It sounds like your father really had it hard, as did everyone during the depression, but you don’t mention how he helped others, you mention he stood out from the pack, that doesn’t say he was respected for his work but that because of the honorific he stood out from them. And what about the pack he stood out from, and their poverty? Someone to me would stand out from the pack when they have done something that earns respect from them, rather than a piece of paper enforced by an institution. Neither are business institutions often those that help others in poverty, although again someone that worked their way up in such is made out to deserve respect.

    If your father truly helped others, and acquired respect anyone would have without being in a field where an honorific is doled out including when they are, everyone would be glad to hear that. But to get offended and display resentments hitting on straw-man arguments as if having a viewpoint about honorifics is an insult to your father, this is not what Sara stated. I wonder how much can’t be said or it’s seen as an insult or getting in the way of respect. Working hard for a degree and getting an honorific is working hard for a degree and getting an honorific, that says nothing about what a person has done for their community or for others, or what kind of respect they engendered simply by their actions themselves, not whether they have an honorific, and how much work that’s seen to have entailed. A person who has completely been disenfranchised by society can work quite a bit harder just to still see beauty in the simplest things, and not lose it.

    YOU are the one that said you were disgusted because you thought chiropractors didn’t work as hard as you did for their degree, again hitting on the idea of working hard, as if that only occurs at an academic level and what kind of a degree you get. To speak of taking nuances out of a discussion. Nuances also aren’t dressing up personal resentments, and then accusing others of not being nuanced when they delineate there’s more to the argument beyond your “nuance.” You don’t know how hard chiropractors work to be up on stuff what the medical profession might dismiss, regarding alternative health, and there are all sorts of avenues they support that go beyond what one would get steered towards, or even would be allowed to be steered towards from a “Doctor” of medicine. That takes a lot of work beyond what’s simply put forth from a curriculum from an institution doling out said honorifics or not, recently quite controlled by corporate interests as a front for an investment institution. That again also effects where the money goes, and who has a decent or easy income or not. This doesn’t change whether one has a doctoral in business either. And you twice now have mentioned that someone who does get such rewards works harder. I don’t agree, and consequently I can only further question whether that’s taking charge of one’s life.

    And I don’t know what your problem with a chiropractor was, but I do know that the medical profession has been quite active in trying to legally suppress their practice, which despite considerable action hasn’t worked, because chiropractors DO help people, whether you’re disgusted as to what you interpret as hard work or not. I also mentioned the problems there used to be with insurance, and with some HMOs still are in place, although chiropractors CAN help people and in my case to avoid completely unnecessary surgery and other damage and trauma to the body. That that isn’t seen as medical, or respected, or that the “medical” profession would try to prevent people from having a free choice regarding insurance, or acknowledged status is truly oppressive. That’s way beyond: A chiropractor helped you but they didn’t help me, so what can I say? I don’t know what your problem was with a chiropractor, but I think a lot of people don’t like having gone to a chiropractor because when the discs are adjusted to be more aligned, this brings up problems in behavior or posture and muscles that have gotten used to being used in-properly or out of balance points this out with pain trying to encourage them to change their habits, which they don’t, and then they have a problem. The same with a nutritionist, people don’t like changing to a healthier diet when when they have become accustomed to an unhealthy one; but then again the medical profession often isn’t even privy let alone articulate regarding such sensitivities.

    There are MANY people on this site who have SEVERE problems with their medical doctor or psychiatrist, both with honorifics. Chiropractors you say disgust you when they call themselves a doctor, which they are allowed to do but not call themselves medical doctors (although recently they have to do a lot more medical training to get their degree), but it’s fine to be a doctor of whatever else when it’s not seen as medical. Business for example.

    And what about the people on this site who may simply for emotional reasons need to hear that said honorific doesn’t mean what it’s made out to be, people who have been truly tortured by their psychiatrist, and they can’t even say that it didn’t help them without being seen as non compliant!?

    And that ISN’T just a topic to be dismissed as inappropriate because of “linguistics.”

    I also find that your comments are riddled with mirrored statements. You dismiss the nuances or counterpoint of a statement and then say there’s no nuance to the discussion, because your points were challenged, that regarding the collusion with honorifics and business for example. And when Sara simply asks a question you can answer regarding the potential of whether there’s another way to gender respect than an honorific, you act as if she was putting beliefs on your mouth. I see that more as how you misinterpreted what she truly stated, and thus put beliefs on her.

    Initially reading your response I thought, yeah, of course an honorific can mean something to a hard working person, and then they have some respect in their lives to get through the day, and have some pride; but when you dismiss nuance saying it’s lacking because people share valid counterpoint regarding the content of your post, and then the straw man arguments, I truly have lost that although I can still see it in others who might want a honorific…

  • I wonder whether you could be a bit more candid?

    When you say that getting a doctoral was a way out of poverty for you father, you expose quite clearly how it’s about money (same as psychiatry and pill pushing, and guilds and wallstreet); thank you.

    And then you’re disgusted that chiropractors would call themselves doctors because you “know that their degree was probably easier than” yours. I had such a problem with one side of my hip that I couldn’t bend over to tie my shoes properly, I went to a clinic (“med” clinic) and the “Doctor” there even quite glibly mentioned how the “insurance” wouldn’t pay to see a chiropractor, and actually mentioned how if the problem with my back and the pinched nerve didn’t go away, they would do surgery. And this was standard “procedure” for a “med” clinic at that time (twenty years ago or so). So, I went to a chiropractor, paid for it myself, and the problem went away within a week or so. The chiropractor even called the insurance (I had a pinched nerve that prevented me from moving properly, which would have lead to greatly inhibited ability to move were it not fixed, which he accomplished WITHOUT the trauma of surgery) but they wouldn’t pay for me to see him. Years went by, I had gone to see the chiropractor every month or every two months, but then stopped; and acquiring neck problems (and paying to see the chiropractor really wasn’t something I easily could afford as all) found out that the HMO I had had to change to in order to get therapy would pay for 18 chiropractic sessions a year. Within two years my life has change, although I had to find exercises on my own, change my diet, allow thoughts or emotions some legroom they hadn’t been encouraged to have before, learn how to meditate to calm myself; but the chiropractor helped beyond measure; when the “Doctor” would probably promote insulin shots. And I really don’t think that having to do research that’s not in the mainstream money market, to actually help people in a way that an “honorific” and it’s “privileges” would bypass, that that means that their degree was easier than yours. For one thing, I doubt that after accumulating a degree (wherever they put it), that they as easily believe that they have made it, because it was so much hard “work.”

    The arguments you make as to why the honorific should be honored (“working one’s way out of poverty”, “a medical stance that caused more work to get than others”) is exactly what psychiatrists would use to excuse why they continue needing the “lifestyle” and why they are the “authority”. I don’t know how this would be inappropriate for this site, other than the logic is inherent rather than in your face. Insurance companies often don’t pay for therapy going beyond such a grip on how the market works for those with such privilege, and people who truly need help consequently don’t have funding for what would help, ending with what doesn’t (might suppress a symptom temporarily causing more problems in the long run which calls for more “treatment” and more money feeding the “honorific”), further perpetuating the divide between poverty and those that have more privilege. And to pull your way out of poverty becomes being assimilated into getting an honorific, and promoting what doesn’t help; while those who are stuck needing something else but sticking to what truly helps means poverty, disenfranchisement, total confusion as to what the bleep is going on, having to find answers way beyond the “hard work” of those with an “honorific,” and not having it acknowledged when those answers are found; but heh oh: I” am Doctor so-and-so and pulled my way out of “poverty”!? “

    You can gripe about chiropractors and functional doctors, but that is where the trend is going as to who really can help. That’s for people to decide, not those who feel they have “worked” so hard, and pulled themselves out of “poverty” and consequently feel they deserve an “honorific.”

    For ANYONE to say an honorific is something they deserve because of fill-in-the-blank work they have done, when others don’t see it that way or their ability to function is complicated by it, is quite abusive. Honor is something that comes from people who honor you, not from a title given by an institution that enforces it.

  • Yeah, but that’s perceived credibility and can be downright brainwashing regarding whether what’s perceived truly is credible. In response to: “I think you’re referring here to how credibility is sometimes much more about power and social capital than it is about being in possession of real quality information, and with that I couldn’t agree more.” And it’s often not low quality information or even lack of it, it’s too often deceptions, modeling arguments with statements that look like they are formulated: as in A plus B equals C whether or not A plus B equal anything at all but it sounds good, and scientific and logical; and quite covert lies covering up the truth, which is known to a select few.

    I really, in becoming part of the marginalized crowd, after years of actually looking quite soberly at what goes in the arena of condoned knowledge, and really carefully sorting through alternative information as well as personal experiences, I find an incredible amount of what goes on at educational institutions quite corrupt, particular higher learning where one gets a profession or not with a paycheck. That doesn’t mean there aren’t good teachers in there, but they have to know how to play the system, or they have somehow got a name for themselves which can’t be ignored. This type of doling out “knowledge” also goes for religion promising an afterlife, or the image of being a good person, or as you mentioned in another post their description of “God.” That’s also mind control, to tell everyone they are under attack by said evil entity (the Archfiend) and you need the church or you’ll end up in the lake of fire for eternity when not part of their movement, is the same as what all dictators have done knowing when you make people think they are under attack you can control them. And for the corporate process, how they have suppressed whatever doesn’t go with their profit margin, and an unbelievable amount of wonderful truly amazing technology using the idea that it’s impossible in order to convince people it’s fraudulent when it isn’t, while suppressing it ever being put into production for the general public to find out and robbing mankind of really amazing stuff….

    Maybe I’m just jaded, but…

  • I dunno. Doctor Trump does have a rather objective clinical ring to it (I did spell wring correctly?)

    Because I was musing about this and realized I had completely forgotten what this had to do with Jill Biden…..

    Anyhow.

    The last time I used the prefix https://wikidiff.com/prefix/title “Doctor” it was to exemplify how someone goes and gets a badge because they really can’t support their “teachings” without it: stuff that wouldn’t stand by itself – I obviously use the word stand loosely, that while when you replace the word go from the phrase “go to class” with stand or sit, it pretty much points out one’s status –, the same with the term “Professor.” In fact, when I used that adjective – not title – a policeman in the parking lot where I just exited the bus heard me, and responded: “He’s jealous,” which unlikely referred to the one with the prefix. But then anything with fix in it might already be inappropriate.

    Saddest thing, is that those who were here to begin with, and knew the land, knew nature, knew the seasons, knew the stars; they are even more likely to be killed by police than Blacks, and that’s mostly from safety checks by the police regarding “mental illness.” It’s those people that had knowledge then that we all need to know by now, and…..

    But yeah, you can say: “Doctor” or “Sir” or “Professor,” or even “President” and really mean obnoxious loudmouth, with perhaps no one the wiser.

    Here’s then an actual tweet shared from a Doctor, which might denote something different than the prior (very obnoxious) interpretation of mine https://twitter.com/l3580/status/1310590842747285505

    And just in case anyone is quite confused by now. If such a wise one gives you a test, and you have to chose between, A) adjective, B) title and C) prefix regarding what “Doc” is, and you really need the right answer for him, it’s C. That’s because he (or she) is a professional. And don’t tell them it’s what you call a document, and could be the extension for a word processor file, being that it’s the way documents are filed on a computer, he doesn’t need to know you know that, he might not understand, he’s just too busy, consequently he might think you completely don’t know what Doc is.

  • Just to be clear:

    “psychosis”

    “bipolar”

    With the italics used to describe what’s really a spiritual experience, a breaking away from accepted limitations to see things that are real but not even considered as possible, the words: “psychosis,” and “bipolar 1” with the italics, the italics look like angel wings. And, Ekaterina, with your picture, I noticed you’re standing holding your two hands rather like people do when they make a movement with their fingers to denote what they said is meant to be in italics. Perhaps again transforming the diagnosis of who you are supposed to be to something more real, and spiritual.

    I hope you find a gentle wind to sail in, to glide in, or a gust to soar in, or a lull to gently hover in….

    Whatever it is, you have those “”

  • ‘I was diagnosed as bipolar at the age of 27 because I tend to experience what is classified as “psychosis,” a beautiful, incredible experience on my part, but let’s keep it medical and classify it as “bipolar 1.” ‘ Sometimes italics are just angel wings fluttering…

  • Since the topic has come up for actually reading the article, which I had, but went back to look closer, and something I might have wanted to have been left where it might not have jumped out, did do that. From reading the article. Again.

    “There’s a lot of criticism flung at both the Neurodiversity movement and the Mad Pride movement that we are bad for people who are called low functioning. I call bullshit on that. I think the real threat is that we’re talking about the so-called low functioning people like they are peers. We’re talking about them and us as if there is no “them and us,” just us. In short, we’re interacting with people as if they are just that—people.”

    I don’t believe that those getting the peer support,  from where it’s given, really can be guaranteed to be listened to, completely. Including them in and stating you’re seeing them as human might come across as heroic, but this could be in correlation with causing low functioning?

    As long as you see yourself as disabled, get “treatment” for it. Call yourself neurodivergent, promote this as “mad pride,” then it’s a whole group of “us” rather than low functioning people, when in reality there’s quite a bit of correlation with exactly that causing disability, thus low functioning.

    And I question what “neuro” has to do with it?

    Someone that’s brainwashed (insecure, needs to fit in to feel they are valid) and sends such signals through his nerves (which are there just to be there, whether you use them for this or for that), with the consequent effect, can call himself “neuro” divergent, as well. But someone who’s healthy, doesn’t strain his nerves, they’re not “divergent” enough, and yes, I’m really saying that perhaps people with a “diagnosis” might have, initially more healthy nerves than those doing the diagnosing. Which is what was going on before it was supposed to be from the “nerves” and thus could be called “neuro-divergent” thanks to that they’re supposed to want to be somewhat “normal” or fit in; which already isn’t normal, unless that means abnormal use of nerves (because the majority strain it (nerves) in an abnormal manner: thus abnormal straining of nerves is normal). See, it’s marvelously circular.

    Make sure that divergent part of yourself is straining itself to have something to say, and fit in with what says you’re saying something, and then it’s normally abnormal: the good fight, no pain no gain.

    Neither do I find it out of place to mention – again – that psychiatric treatment shows more to be putting strain on the nerves than to….

    To have such strange driving laws, or guards on how one pays attention to what one is doing, to cause enough accidents that there are many cars with dents, and then start talking about body-divergent cars, and group them all together (also causing more accidents, in fact even a whole spike in them); and say you’ve made a movement about divergent car bodies; this DOES leave out the rather strange laws and “guards” on behavior that lead to all of that. Why would that be?

  • I’m sorry Dana, although I greatly respect what you’re trying to put forth, that you see “Autism” as something that can be seen more as an innate trait of a whole aspect of the human population, and how you can see yourself reflected in others, and how this phenomenon can be respected and nurtured; but I don’t feel you have responded fairly to what beokay wrote, and it’s clear to me that beokay did read your blog. To say, please read the blog before commenting, when there’s a challenge to what you wrote, is a rather standard accusation people make. Beokay simply brought up a very valid question regarding what you said, that really doesn’t meant that they didn’t read your blog, that means they question something in it or wish to bring in further dialogue that expands the context.

    Beokay and other people here have responded with extreme concern, and have truly valid concerns. It’s wonderful that you have come to terms with the term “autism” but that doesn’t mean it’s not seen as hate speech by other people, or something that has confused them extremely and was forced on them without their own understanding, nor does it mean that they were given the space to offer input from themselves as to what they felt was going on rather than just being told what’s going on with them from others, with the whole stance of objectivity and authority (which Sam Plover pointed out). You yourself say it’s an umbrella diagnosis. And you also don’t mention the whole matrix of people who might have the same symptoms, but never had to deal with the psychiatric labeling, don’t want to be involved with labeling that is psychiatric, don’t want a psychiatric label, don’t want to be called “autistic” and have a whole other insight into it, which might be more holistic. And you might be truly at a loss to not know how people were at peace who had no need of such diagnosis, although they did, or do, or will have, the same symptoms.

    You list such things as not looking at people, being more sensitive to ambient sounds and dialogue, being upset when you trip; but those are just experiences, to list those as symptoms, and bring in this “diagnosis” can very much take away understanding, and rob people (other people who are uncomfortable with the diagnosis) of seeing that they are fine the way they are, that it’s just something innate to them that’s different. That you found peace there, can be something very different for others. That’s what others were trying to point out who have seen that.

    You can say it’s not a psychiatric illness, but that’s more wishful thinking on your part than reality. No, the symptoms may not be, but the word is. Autism is seen as a psychiatric illness. The diagnosis does confuse a lot of people, and it’s also used to promote psychiatric drugs, or treatment that only analyses their behavior rather than acknowledging what might be going on that goes against medical hegemony, or diagnosis based on behavior rather than relating to the person. Behavior you can program a robot to do, but relating to a person is something more human than that.

    And to say it’s not over-diagnosed when it might be used to say there’s a genetic flaw although there’s evidence pointing out that it’s the environment, but that evidence is not acknowledged, that’s really overlooking something that shouldn’t be overlooked.

    What if toxicity can cause what’s diagnosed as Autism, whether or not the symptoms are the same as yours, but the term is used? What if vaccines or other unacknowledged issues can cause Autism. What if modern schooling and forcing a person to have to deal with a social environment they don’t feel comfortable with, or having to be inundated with standard curriculum that doesn’t really interest them or that they understand too readily or too slowly, or a whole list of other things causes what’s labeled as a neurological disorder called Austism?

    When the documentary vaxxed is suppressed, when a documentary about root canals (also quite articulate with scientific data that’s uncomfortable for mainstream standard practice) is suppressed, when Charlie Rose can have someone on his show touting that they know psychiatric illness comes from a brain malfunction while completely not sharing the one scientific truth that’s the clearest, and that psychiatric treatment causes brain malfunction (chemical imbalance, addiction, deterioration); how much does this come from corporate interested calling themselves medical and making money off of it rather than truth. And all the rest of it: sugar, caffeine, pesticides, fluoride, food coloring, preservatives, gluten and other stuff that’s proven to cause swelling and can be bad for your intestines (another sign of “autism”)…all stuff that can be overlooked when someone is “diagnosed.”

    You and others may have strong feelings about what I just inserted in the prior paragraph, as to whether that’s valid or not; but typically ONE or TWO of those things will be singled out to invalidate all of the rest. Instead you get the diagnosis, which in such a case is really over-diagnosis. That’s more than just umbrella diagnosis, that’s a smoke screen.

  • Very well said.
    I have a “schizophrenia” diagnosis, or schizo-effective or something like that. What I’ve learned is that a part of my mind simply will spill out scenarios, just like in a dream, that are trying to tell me what’s going on, especially when I’m in a situation where I wasn’t encouraged to question what’s going on. Over the years I’ve learned to understand that language, and that IS what it is: a legitimate language, like imagination is. I could say that would I drink too much coffee or smoke cigarettes this might lead to a “psychotic” break, but that’s not what it’s about, it’s that my mind is trying to communicate something, and it’s actually the “psychotic” break that would tell me how to take care of myself, would I be allowed to learn the language, to understand it, to see it for what it is, despite that “society” doesn’t want its statistical based norms and consensual reality deportment challenged to such a degree (both are terms I picked up that are used as a means towards diagnosis). And when the feelings one wasn’t allowed to express consciously are allowed to have a subconscious language that’s legitimate than one is better able to take care of oneself, even better than what’s considered “normal.” Just not drinking that much coffee or not smoking cigarettes isn’t going to magically give legroom to the feelings, experiences, insights and other unconscious motives that needed expression; although realizing what I was resorting to because those feelings had become uncomfortable given the lack of acceptance in my environment, that acknowledges the feelings rather than a reaction to non acceptance as being “bad.”

    THAT said, I’m not going to say that “schizophrenia” is under-diagnosed, because I’ve come to terms with it, and know of others who have. “Schizophrenia” is a false narrative, stating that’s it’s a biological disease, and further more when the “treatment” is scientifically verifiable as something that causes biological disease, something the alleged disease can’t be pinned down to be causing, and when there IS a biological cause that’s truly medical causing distress that causes trauma that causes “symptoms” of “schizophrenia” this often being overlooked to promote the brain disabling “treatment” that’s said to be needed, and when most “treatments” of “schizophrenia” correlate with a spike in the “condition,” or rather a spike in mislabeling it, not treating it for what it is, causing loss of life, disability, more societal phobia, more stigma, a suppression of alternative methods that do correlate with healing and understanding, and empathy, and compassion that’s true rather than patronizing; given all of that and more, I really don’t think that saying that “Schizophrenia” isn’t “over-diagnosed” is going to support seeing it for what it truly is, would it be anything at all. Not even when I see an extreme lack in society of understanding imagination, dreams, the language of the subconscious and the innate part of being human that expresses itself such.

    And I don’t see that an “Autism” diagnosis is much different at all. There are a whole plethora of causes that are suppressed, when they don’t fit the mainstream medical model, there are people that can relate to “Autism” in a way that relates to the person rather than to symptoms that have to be eradicated rather than understood and related to, and the use of psychiatric medications for Autism can only be leading to the same problems (and lies, as if it’s treating a valid chemical imbalance rather than causing one and causing biological disease in the meantime)…

    To be really radical and confrontative about it, it’s like saying that the F word for homosexuals or the N word for those of another race are not over-diagnosed, as if we are dealing with a valid diagnosis to begin with. Psychiatric diagnosis in many ways fall under hate speech, that’s simply the truth. How that can be convoluted with stating that it’s not over-diagnosed, when people point out it’s become what it has (an easy target)? And when one is offered another diagnosis instead, this only points out how ridiculous diagnosis are, it doesn’t make ANY at all statement regarding the validity of another “diagnosis.”

  • There’s two things going on, at least, probably more, but to stick with (2):

    There ARE a lot of people who are forced on an autism diagnosis, and that’s done in a way to make them clinically think there’s something wrong with them, I’ve heard this from a therapist I know even. They told me how they were frustrated with people who use the diagnosis as an excuse, the same way someone would say that they have a physical condition preventing them from physical activity someone ends up defining their cognitive, emotional and even spiritual abilities, as if they simply can’t fill-in-the-blank. When this is done in a way that shuts down a person’s ability to relate to themselves, no matter how kindly this is done, no matter how much a “therapist” believes that they are helping a poor diseased person understand their reactions, this is Munchausen NOT therapy. And all of the hallmark card niceties, all of the candy sweetness and all of the coy singsong tone that this is administered with doesn’t change that. And you can end up getting the whole psychiatric system giving rewards when one sees themselves that way, and have it be disabling rather than empowering. There’s often no excuse made for REAL physical problems that could be causing the problems listed as autism which could be coming from a whole number of sources, and yes I believe that vaccines can cause brain damage, which is even listed as a side effect OF them. Beyond that there’s nutrition, environment in general, and if you believe people have a soul and reincarnate there could be emotional challenges at a soul level, as far out in left field as that seems, that should be acknowledged if a person has such curiosity, or they could just be someone who processes life differently, someone who needs legroom to work out their own feelings, thoughts, intuitions, experiences and instincts about something rather than following rote guidance, social patterns, indoctrination or other “authorities”. All of that is largely dis-acknowledged by psychiatry or the medical community.

    And then you have people that simply are different, that have their own inner world that’s as real and as strong, or more prominent, than what’s called the objective world. Every great creative artist in a way has to be of such an ilk, they have to be able to relate to a world where emotions take on a reality beyond the world that’s physically tangible, because they are working with how emotions create an architecture that somehow brings out the meaning or the purpose of life (and thus the beauty), and that can’t be tangible because it melds with what’s called the future and remains beyond our grasp but urges us on with hope. Or anyone that simply processes life by being in their own world, having their own innate completely individual way of doing things, regardless of what the norm is, or how they are supposed to behave to not be made to feel they are weird.

    I completely understand how frustrating it is when you’ve grown to understand the part of yourself that’s functional on its own, without having to adapt to social norms, and that then what you call autism you don’t see as being over-diagnosed. But WHY is the word “diagnose” even involved. That’s QUITE a misnomer, of not a very misleading red herring. What does it have to do with what a diagnosis is? I wouldn’t go to my doctor to be diagnosed as an artist or not; I wouldn’t even go to the creative community in order to be accepted as such or not. Neither would feel I wasn’t a chef when whatever recipe I thought was worth imbibing didn’t end up on the menu at MickDonuts (I might possibly not be naming a restaurant due to “intellectual” copyright laws)….

    I wouldn’t even go to MickDonuts if they gave me an extra prize that said “artist” on it, just for buying their… *ahem*

    Oh, excuse me, I meant their diagnosis, I got a little lost there for a moment….

  • I agree completely.

    This one part of a quote of Justice Stevens is quite amazing: “As for deterrence, he said that because such people were more likely to act on impulse than were other people, the death penalty’s existence was less likely to come to their minds to inhibit them from committing capital crimes.”

    I found this easily enough, even from google, which points out the death penalty isn’t a deterrent:

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/a-clear-scientific-consensus-that-the-death-penalty-does-not-deter/

    And what kind of ground are we standing on when one doesn’t kill one person in order to not allow another person to kill you, or someone else? Which I’m not saying to excuse killing someone: anyone, including the person that’s supposed to be deterred by believing killing another person for just means is how one creates discipline and a working society, and if he doesn’t murder someone, he gets to demand someone be executed.

    You put forth the idea that executing someone is a deterrent, and you quake people who are trained to do exactly that, kill people to prevent people from killing people. It’s also against human nature to want to kill another person, that’s not natural. In the army, they have to brain wash soldiers to see the enemy as inhuman; that’s also what corporate media does with a whole range of people, cultures, and even countries, when they need to paint something as evil. That for a population that already thinks being alarmist is what maintains safety. People who are brainwashed to not feel safe unless they see some danger at large they are actively fighting against, whether it’s really there or not. That’s all seen as necessary for societal well being, when in reality it does exactly the opposite; it creates the problems it says it’s exposing while denying how it’s causing them, and then covers that up.

  • I just read that myself somewhere, someone’s “mental health” and then they say he didn’t reach out for help.
    Here: ‘He struggled with ethical problems in medicine, his growing depression and corona isolation. He may not have asked loudly enough for the needed help.’
    From this article. https://slippedisc.com/2020/10/violinist-who-became-doctor-takes-his-life-during-covid/

    And then the issue of ethical problems in medicine is brought up…
    And in “mental health” is there an ethical issue regarding practice, or that there’s more recovery when there isn’t any…. um practice, that is

  • boans, but that’s like trying to… I don’t know what to say…

    They think they are trying to help you, and you’re being non compliant, and/or resisting, or whatever it adds up to for them to decide they can assault you, even lie (who was it that is recorded as advising parents to knock chairs over to make it look like their child is violent, when trying to get your child committed!? And that man has been on Charlie Rose who had a whole series acting like they “know” that mental illness is because of a chemical imbalance, and that medications are necessary, rather than they are with true articulate science the one cause of chemical imbalance that can consistently be found in psychiatric treatment, something the alleged diseases do not show to be in true science)…

    When you compare them to ISIS, they only are going to decide further you’re non compliant etc..

    They don’t see it as assault, and they don’t see all the damage they do as damage; they can’t see that when other methods help people but don’t validate theirs that they might have to question what they are doing; they don’t see that when there’s absolutely simple explanations for what’s going on which antidote their alarmist habits, that they are being alarmist;

    And the craziest thing is that you can’t reason with them, which is what they decide about you, because you actually are reasonable; you actually have to believe insane things or act like you do, in order to get by them.

  • I really find this too easy, given how we are supposed to see things, to mention the Islamic State. As if they have anything to do with Islam to begin with, and further more, if you are referring to ISIS, that was a Caliphate that was allowed or encouraged to grow by the US and allied powers, thinking they would help take down Syria, which again is another strategical interest gone sour, like Osama bin Laden was, who first was hired by the US to mess up Aghanistan before that went the other direction. And this is endless, not to speak of people calling themselves Christian that destroyed and are still destroying beautiful peace loving and nature loving indigenous cultures all over the planet. If one is going to make remarks concerning extremism or fundamentalism, one really only has to look in one’s backyard: Rhode Island, for example.

  • Kristen, I wouldn’t be so quick to go on that their motivations were money. Because this kind of story happens and can happen at just about any psychiatric institution, regardless of whether they are making a profit or not. It’s maybe best not to try to make anything out of what they were doing, other than point out how unprofessional it was. They otherwise might try to make out you’re paranoid. I’m not saying money wasn’t involved, because the whole phenomenon is driven by guilds, corporate media and wallstreet investments; so even if that one hospital wasn’t trying to make more money, it’s still further up the ladder; and they would list supposed medical concerns just like that, either way, and could and/or might try to make you out to be paranoid or making up conspiracy theories.

    I don’t think that psychiatrists often can differentiate between how they have been indoctrinated to interpret what they call symptoms, and what’s really going on. Your story points that out quite sufficiently, that they couldn’t tell the difference between normal symptoms of heat stroke, and mania from bipolar, then adding on, it becomes hard to remember all of it…

    What would linisopril have to do with a normal heat stroke? And then they bring up a false diagnosis of “stable, non-bleeding arteriovenous brain malformation.” which you now know was “a developmental venous anomaly, a harmless, symptomless, birth defect that occurs in 1 out of 50 people. So symptomless and harmless that it is rarely detected except at autopsy. A brain AVM, the original diagnosis, being much more serious although considered stable. DVA’s by comparison, don’t hemorrhage/bleed” The Linisopril would have been for the false diagnosis? And the bipolar diagnosis just shows what it shows, it reads like some kind of magic fundamentalists believe in, and you’re not even allowed to attribute what happened to a heat stroke anymore.

    I really wonder whether the doctor asking you whether you wanted a catscan already had other ideas in his head, which is then what spelled itself out over the next 11 days, anyhow. that’s how they got you in the system anyhow. I’m assuming that if you had said you didn’t want a catscan you could have walked free and wouldn’t have been available for them to start making up more stuff. Having said you wanted a catscan did that make you available for them to start trying to pin bipolar on you, or would they have tried that anyhow? And if they had that in their minds, would not wanting a catscan have prevented making you available? Such people really simply aren’t in their right minds anymore, when they think a “mental disorder” is going on. And they then think a person doesn’t know themselves what’s going on with them. And society increasingly has the same phobias, which I think is what your lawyer was trying to point out. You should simply be able to point out how what they did was false at many levels now, already. They can’t even see that it’s a simple sun stroke, and were wrong about the brain abnormality.

    You can imagine how fundamentalist some people are. And the only way they can believe in “bipolar” in many ways is by being alarmist, because the science involving it doesn’t really add up beyond their statements that they don’t really know how the brain works although they can’t really prove it’s a chemical imbalance (while their “medications” have been proven to cause chemical imbalance), and that they believe that they are making headway with “compelling” evidence, while the treatment that’s been put in place has caused a whole epidemic of the problem rather than a lessening, and thus you have more alarm rather than reason and logic.

    In fact, to deal with all of it and not completely lose it, you have to be quite a bit more informed that the “normal” person, and to not lose it you have to have more compassion with people who simply don’t know any better or better able to detach from an extremely disturbing situation than most people would be capable of.

    And the utter convolution of saying that you never had bipolar symptoms before, because you take magnesia, this to disregard it was a sun stroke, and then offer zyprexa…

    And you can easily read how much bipolar is over diagnosed, and the whole push with “medications” such as zyprexa which have collectively caused billions of dollars in fines because of withholding information about known side effects, or how such “medications” cause brain damage, this with a false diagnosis of a brain malformation….

    I don’t even go to see a primary care physician anymore. I’ve heard to many stories, and I have a diagnosis. I had gone to the ER for a simple allergic reaction to oregano oil, and they were ready to give me a prednisone pill, or something like that, which I said no to. I was then listed as “refusing” that, the doctor using such terminology. The doctor who was quite nice and social, did state that quite aggressively all of a sudden in contrast to his otherwise friendly demeanor. I did fill out a prescription for that, which I never took, especially after reading that it makes one in twenty psychotic. But they were going to just give me such a pill at the ER. The allergic reaction had no difficulty dissipating within a short period.

    Thank you for sharing your story.

    If I was going to be sarcastic, I’d try to point out that even zyprexa with all of its magic qualities, hasn’t been shown to prevent heat stroke.

    This stuff is just unbelievable.

    And it’s tragic.

    A person who was forced on zyprexa, in an asylum setting, they wouldn’t even be able to tell such a psychiatrist the truth they might find out about the efficacy of such medications, they probably couldn’t list their side effects and get decent or conscientious acknowledgement, nor for withdrawal symptoms….

    Those people can be quite brainwashed, and fundamentalist, and don’t have realistic flexibility in their thinking, when they encounter such…

    The best you can do is often just get out of the situation, and show there’s a different way. You just can’t engage with them directly….

  • A friend of mine, since having committed suicide, was actually held within an asylum, after being committed, because she still got up in the middle of the night and had a cigarette, but then went back to sleep.

    This is serious criteria for determining someone’s mental health?

    Another friend of mine, still alive but highly disabled by the system, and I would say showing severe symptoms of anosognosia because of the drugs she was forced on, they were going to keep her there longer because of her relationship with nature. She sees nature as being part of the Kingdom of Heaven, and so she entertains parts of it as representing her connection with people she has lost in her life. There was a crow or so that, during a time in the bleak courtyard and the asylum, the only plant life there having somehow sprouted up between the cracks in the concrete, but a crow flew near by, or another bird I don’t remember, and made a sound. My friend said that was her mother, I think it was her birthday even. That was overheard by someone working there, and they were going to keep her another week, at least. I called up there and let them have it, talking about persecution of indigenous religious beliefs: by some miracle this pundit of institutional conformity ( and by all means he was “nice” about it, as if saying they were just trying to make sure was assuring to anyone, when they hadn’t even asked her with any insight as to why she said that ) it seems he somehow got her let out the next day. She’s actually totally unaware of how much the drugs effect her, and thinks that she can just get off of them, when she wants to, but has no idea at all to be aware of the withdrawal symptoms, or how to deal with them; and since I’ve known her for more than 20 years has constantly gotten herself into trouble when she tries to get off of the drugs. Her whole family is also oblivious. Sadly she can be quite apologetic about the system, she has a trust fund and had an apartment big enough to take someone in, someone also in the mental health system, but when he started acting out, and she wanted him out of the apartment, instead of just asking him to leave or even trying to, she had him committed. Later she admitted that to do that you have to exaggerate and lie. Recently, having moved into a foster care facility, the lady in charge also told me how she’s able to work the system, and knew exactly what to say to get herself committed to the asylum, for petty reasons, which she has called a second nursery school. This 1000 dollars a day or so resort, that the government pays for, mostly. And she really was in trouble, given the withdrawal symptoms, and her anosognosia regarding the effect of the drugs; but going to the asylum isn’t going to help with such stuff. Recently, which is the past 5 or 6 years, she’s had herself committed, before that was forced.

    But here with such petty things being used to determine whether someone is sick or not, what Willoweed brought up: how much is this really about turning off your mind when you have natural responses to a non working society, or distress regarding said non working society you won’t get points for bringing up, or that might start seeing that there’s something more worth it to invest in, involving thought, beyond the boundaries one is supposed to keep to be considered responsible!?

    And 1000 dollars a day in an asylum, and you’re let out when…

    When you agree that you’re sick, because the psychiatrist doesn’t like you playing with your hair, can’t tolerate you disagreeing with him when he’d have to listen to your side of the story, and have empathy…

    Who knows what…

    The friend of mine who committed suicide (who actually at one point had the same guy committed she had taken in, as the other had, come to think of it) just prior, I think the last time I visited with her, she showed me how she couldn’t sit still, how her hands would start shaking, and told me how the psychiatrist at the asylum had said to her that if she didn’t willingly start taking this, that, and then another drugs (or at least two, but I think at least three, I don’t remember exactly) that he wasn’t going to let her out. And he was aggressive and threatening.

    Who is determining this stuff!? And statistically THEY are the ones whose “treatment” correlates with the spike in mental illness, AND with the violence associated with people who are supposed to be forced on this treatment, which is the PR spin. Like the Reichstag incident with Hitler; make people think they are being attacked (and cause that attack yourself, or do and say it’s the enemy) and you can control them. And then more disability, loss of life, loss of life expectancy, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, societal paranoia, loss of self initiative, more cost to everyone but the drug companies and those investing in their bonds and stocks.

    It really doesn’t make sense, and the article above points out that when you take them out of the picture, that there isn’t really any correlation with anti-depressants helping depression.

  • Paula, thank you for your heartfelt response.

    I really don’t know what to say about all of that. It certainly taught me to NEVER go to such people for help. The amount of hard liner indoctrinated pretense, really doing nothing but showing how easily a person is controlled by unrealistic fear, when it’s accepted as a societal norm.

    And what’s most disturbing to me, perhaps, is would a vet go to such a place, having already been through a war where there’s such game playing going on, for whatever reason (read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man) where people were controlled by fear to do truly dehumanizing things etc…

    Well, I’m repeating myself, but they then end up having to deal with the same thing over again, only with people who act like they’re giving medical help rather than excusing violence in a war. Here it’s also extremely covert, rather than exposed violence. And it’s perhaps such an attitude why people don’t know better regarding excusing wars, given how easily they are made to believe there’s some evil out there, whether it’s an alleged chemical imbalance or “the enemy” who is as human as the other side would one be allowed to gain perspective: “If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we would find in each person’s life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.”
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow POET

    Just to be completely clear, I only called that place thinking I might be able to talk to someone, simply about not doing things that I felt were harmful to me in the long run (smoking and drinking too much coffee). “Why am I doing this, this could be detrimental to me in the long run?” And at that time I really had no repertoire of thought to realize there were really subtle quiet thoughts that I was pushing to the side, feelings I hadn’t been encouraged to have, in the harsh riot of calculations based on what you can get or not (socially, economically, institutionally, politically and territoriality…etc.) in this artifice called society. I guess they were just feelings that I thought if I really felt them, that they would destroy me, like I had to get rid of them somehow. It’s only after that when everything fell apart and I was put on disability that I found that at times I had two choices, I could fragment into a frustrated person that thought all life had failed me, or I could go to the computer with my midi keyboard and synthesizer, and compose music. Which happened by itself, music then became that innate place a person has they can go to with their emotions, that’s universal to the human condition, and beyond. Not that I could at the time exactly equate it with emotions, it was just something to do where I could do something, my reflexes could relate to something abstract enough it was outside of what was labeled as having done anything or not. Something to do that allowed me to feel alive, like water to a parched plant. There are of course other things I did, like go for a bike ride taking a pack of colored pencils and art paper with me, and marvel at the array of colors in nature, would I try to reproduce what I saw with the pencils on the paper. But I’m quite sure that psychiatric drugs would have destroyed that, the natural flow.

    A person that has been traumatized can transcend trauma with another language, like in dreams which could be seen as a sort of fiction where things are symbolic, or then any of the arts. All of the “non reality based stuff” that could be labeled as psychosis. Most of the great artists have been dubbed with some sort of diagnosis post humously, if not schizophrenia then bipolar often, because of the way they went to another place in the mind, to a language that transcends trauma rather than uses it as excuse for the mind control. You’re not supposed to feel things like that, you’re not supposed to allow your mind the freedom to create scenarios, depictions of things symbolic enough that it transcends boundaries, there was supposed to be something wrong with them. Basically because they dared to go someplace that was universal, where there wasn’t separation between people anymore.

    Telling a vet, who can’t feel at home anymore in society with what war has done to him, that they have a chemical imbalance, is like telling someone who has contusions that there’s something wrong with their tissues or their skin. Only here we’re dealing with something more objective than what is tangible in the physical, because it’s not going to go away, you can remove yourself from a physical object, but you can’t just discard your emotions, your thoughts, you can’t push them away, and there’s the rub, they’re not going to go away.

    Do people really have to disable their minds to believe in magic charms?

    “Just take this pill, it will bring you happiness.”

    What if we were meant to feel our feelings, and that when we really allow ourselves that space, they connect us with the rest of life, and we find we’re not separate to begin with? All that crazy stuff might dig up some ingrained fears left buried out of despair, change our reflexes and bring a whole new path our way, that was just waiting…

    And I mean just feelings, not I have to do something to get rid of that feeling, I don’t like it, it makes me angry; I think that’s interfering with the intelligence behind the feelings. What people think is something to medicate to eradicate could be the very stuff that connects us with each other…

    http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-the3.htm

  • Suicide prevention lines are “insane,” I clearly don’t know what to say about it.
    I had called one years ago (more than 30), not because I was suicidal, but because I felt that I was so distressed that I wasn’t taking care of myself, I was spending the whole night on my parents porch, smoking and drinking coffee. I had had quite a bit of societal betrayal, and didn’t understand it at all. I had specifically told them this (that I felt I wasn’t taking care of myself drinking too much coffee); to add on to this, the amount of coffee I was drinking did help to make me paranoid, but I told them how much coffee I was drinking.

    I was invited to come talk to them, where they had a building; clearly I wasn’t at risk enough for them to send police over etc. It’s one of the most bizarre situations I’ve ever had when I went to their building. I couldn’t hardly have a conversation with the lady that was supposed to be there to talk to me because the phone kept ringing and she’d pick it up. And they get really serious, all activate as if there’s some critical thing going on, which wasn’t at all, one lady took such a stance it looked like she was ready to give me an anal probe or something. Any sort of conversation I had amounted to really nothing, but that at one point they even told me that they wanted to have me committed, but I mentioned that I had a therapist (maybe they had tried to call my parents who weren’t home, I don’t know) but they got the therapist, this was just a lady I went to to talk about my dreams for dream interpretation, but she was some kind of legitimate therapist, so they did listen to her who told them that I was fine, that I lived with my parents etc..

    And this was supposed to be a suicide prevention line. I have to admit that’s incredulously unwitty to call a place like that, but I didn’t know who to call. I was just concerned about myself; but simply going there and talking to them was incredibly dangerous. And although I told them about the amount of coffee I was drinking — which I mentioned as a sign I wasn’t taking care of myself, although I wasn’t suicidal at all — there wasn’t ONE peep about that, or that maybe I shouldn’t drink that much coffee (or smoke), or that if I was really upset about stuff that I should relax, take a walk, do something to calm myself like meditate, sit by a lake, all of a host of things, NOTHING was said about this, but one lady actually, when I told her I liked to write poetry, had the false indoctrination to tell me that she was concerned about me because she wanted me to do creative stuff, and if I took “medications” then I would be able to write poetry. Just absolute brain washing. Utter nonsense. Medications that turn off self initiative, that dull the mind, that cause one’s thoughts to recede as if they’re being cut off, that’s what I’ve heard from other people, and seen myself; and that was supposed to help me write poetry.

    You also can easily do a search about how coffee can cause paranoia, and it’s chemically explained quite clearly.

    And I say that it was unwitty to call a place like that, but clearly I didn’t have anyone to talk to, even though my parents are both psychologists, they never understood simple things about children needing to feel free to express themselves, so they can relate to their own instincts, their own feelings, their own perceptions, experiences and intuition; but my parents were more interested in using stuff like the Myer Briggs to analyse our personality, assign us personality traits; and then more stuff at home I won’t get into that’s just too sordid. Not a healthy environment for emotional health.

    Neither was it helpful to call a suicide prevention line just to have someone to talk to. They had no idea of how to just make someone feel there was someone to listen, and when they tried to make out they had concern, along with acting so alarmed that any sensitive person would feel threatened, they said things to me that I already knew were totally untrue, and I just simply didn’t respond at all. Like talking to robots, you can just hear them going through indoctrinated prefabricated snippets, and acting really concerned, which at that point could have been someone trying to tell me what could happen would I not sacrifice a goat, or a dove, or something worse I won’t mention. It’s just amazing how childish those people are, and you can go to any indoctrinated bunch of good doobies working the system, and you get the same kind of inexplicable responses. Only this involves a person’s life, and people that have already been seriously traumatized, in a way that society ends up discarding them do they actually show signs of what they’ve been through. Having the police pick them up and escort them to a place where they will get more abuse really ISN’T going to help: where they are told that medications that don’t help them they have to take for their whole life, that their brain has been broken, and after having suffered through questionable wars find themselves part of one against feelings, and the brain itself, the way such drugs disable natural brain functions.

    My heart goes out to any veteran that has ever had to do with those people….

  • From the Vice article, a statement by Nev Jones:

    “Yet Jones said that in the time she’s been involved in pushing for better mental health treatment, she has seen increasing polarization, and much of that she contributes to Whitaker and his work. She gets contacted by parents semi-regularly who have read Whitaker’s books and then refuse to let their children start or remain on anti-psychotics—even in cases where medications were working well and the young person wanted to continue with the medication. “This is not at all getting away from coercive relationships,” Jones said.”

    And then from the blog on this site, a conversation between her and Sandra Steingard:
    “And overall, there’s so much we don’t know, so much we don’t understand. So, acknowledging heterogeneity, acknowledging a very high degree of uncertainty about just about everything, including ways of addressing long-term disability—I personally see this as the necessary starting point of any discussion. Instead, at least at the time, I think it was common to see Open Dialogue deployed as a quasi-magical bullet and means of (for some people literally) eliminating psychosis. And likewise, I felt that many people took up Anatomy as ostensible proof that antipsychotics were the primary cause of sustained or chronic psychosis (through supersensitization) and also that the case was more or less settled with respect to long-term iatrogenic harms.”

    I find this particularly misleading to bring up heterogeneity, and then try to discredit so much that truly brings in information and methods that otherwise would be dismissed and/or overlooked. That way anything that might dissuade a person from mainstream convenience or practice supposedly gets in the way of heterogeneity, despite the whole play on words, and the catch phrase “acknowledging heterogeneity.”

    Open Dialogue and Healing Homes of Finland have been shown to work; and they should be tried, should be allowed to be tried out in the USA without prior discriminatory fabrications. The reason they haven’t been tried is because they would go against the mainstream biological model of mental illness, its ideology the unproven chemical imbalance; anything contrary to that is, as we hear again, called a fantasy, is made out to be unrealistic. Methods that work should be tried before anyone decides whether it’s a “fantasy” that they would work.

    And those methods really aren’t anything like:

    “Well, we have these “medications,” that don’t really work in the majority of cases, but we promote that to be the case when they work for an interim, although afterwards there’s more disability, more relapsing, loss of life, side effects, withdrawal symptoms and fear of symptoms that might otherwise have been experienced and understood so that they quiet down or dissolve altogether. There’s also a spike in the diseases these medications are said to heal, along with the added disability, more relapsing and the other things I already mentioned. And we say it’s treating a chemical imbalance, but really causes one by disabling the mind, which we also see as healing, although we’re basically lying to you, but that’s to get you to take your drugs. Now beheading someone also alleviates psychiatric symptoms, but we find the side effect of death a bit too severe, although the medications, for say psychosis, do in general take 20 years off of your life expectancy disabling your mind, it’s not the sudden death as in beheading, and so we can disable that little noggin up there and keep you alive for awhile, although there’s loss there. OK!?”

    I also find it distressing that a clinician would go against parents that were responsible enough to read non mainstream material, gain information that’s more accurate than they were told, information that was suppressed: in fact information that would their child end up in the mental health system and put on such medications, would the child themselves express the scientific truths of how the medications aren’t really treating a chemical imbalance and how the medications are causing iotragenic harm, the child could be seen as non compliant and forced on the medications. To read that Nev said she’s disturbed by parents taking their children off of medications, she says were working, although statistically those medications if they are helpful are only helpful for an interim, and people do better to get off of them eventually, Nev also mentioning that people then also don’t want to try medications that can be extremely difficult to get off of, and cause further problems, as if there’s something wrong there: that further makes me question what’s going on. It also sounds to me that Nev has convinced some of her clients that the drugs work, saying that children don’t want to get off of the medications, and then goes against the parents, even when they don’t want the children to start on the medications. THAT, in fact has caused children to be taken away from their parents. Parents who are dilgent enough to do research beyond the boundaries of standard treatment propping up Wallstreet games, corporate media control, and it’s “economy.” Mindfreedom has two such stories of children that their parents took to the ER, the children were understandable distressed about a physical condition, then advised to try an anti-depressant, and the parents simply stated the scientific truth about such medications, which then was seen as a danger to the children (to know the truth, what’s shared in for example Robert Whitaker’s books); two different mother’s lost their daughters to being institutionalized for simply expressing the scientific truth about anti-depressants. And it also was the daughter’s own choice to not go on such drugs. And with the amount of med students on anti-depressants https://www.idealmedicalcare.org/75-med-students-antidepressants-stimulants/ and the propaganda that’s indoctrinated, it’s not unreasonable to wonder how many nurses and doctors there are that think that such dangerously addictive substances should be administered when there’s normal distress that would go away with proper medical help for a truly physical conditions, which is why someone would go see a nurse or a doctor. In fact that’s happened with someone I knew. A lady came to the US from an East Block country, had been promised work, that and some paper work that should have been cleared weren’t for some bureaucratic reason, and she was left without work, and the distress about that. THEN she had to deal with some nurses who promoted anti-depressants, but the lady had a mother that was a nurse back in her homeland, and the mother had diligently studied the truth about anti-depressants and was wary about that, so the lady said she didn’t think that was a good idea, and probably shared some information that then caused the nurses to start becoming vigilant against her, and her children were taken away from her, basically because her house wasn’t as neat as they felt it should be. The lady was quite responsible and clear in her head, she just had a lot going on and her house was a bit messy, which it often is with children, and she went against being advised to to on anti-depressants.

    Since I’m going on about such stuff, involving paranoia and the mental health system. I also ran into a woman out of nowhere at a bus stop about a decade or so ago, started talking to her, and found out she had been hauled across state lines and put in jail, in my city again, because social workers had talked to her mother, and the mother had accused her of stealing her money. The truth actually being that the mother at one point could have ended up in jail but the daughter decided she should be looked at by the psychiatric division to avoid being put in jail; the mother apparently was treated and then went back to live in her house but took an alcoholic in with her there, she could have lost the house, the daughter put her whole 401K into the house with a reverse term mortgage, but the mother managed to mess that up as well; ended up somewhere in a foster care or so, and then accused the daughter of something she hadn’t done at all, and the nurses believed that. The nurses or social workers believed that the daughter had stolen her mother’s money, when in reality she had lost her 401k trying to help the mother, that managed to still lose the house the 410k of the daughter had prevented from being repossessed at first. The poor daughter wasn’t allowed even a credit card when the police picked her up with several SUVs, was hauled across state lines, held in jail overnight, then had to talk to a judge on video camera who said: “you’re fine, you just have to do some paperwork, you can go home,” where upon the daughter asked how she was supposed to do that, she had no credit card or ID? The judge said that was her problem, and then I happened to run into her after she went to see if friends of hers were around, using her last change for a bus ride; but her friends were on vacation or so. I actually gave her money for a bus ticket, which she returned to me as soon as she got home, by sending me a money order; I helped her find a center for women where she could spend the night before taking the bus, and prevented her from losing her job because she couldn’t get home in time. All of that impossible situation because the nurses again think something is going on, and wouldn’t care to find out beyond that.

    And who is prone to believe in fantasies!?

  • I thought I was finished, and then remembered there was talk of “magic bullets.”

    Here, from Nev:

    “And overall, there’s so much we don’t know, so much we don’t understand. So, acknowledging heterogeneity, acknowledging a very high degree of uncertainty about just about everything, including ways of addressing long-term disability—I personally see this as the necessary starting point of any discussion. Instead, at least at the time, I think it was common to see Open Dialogue deployed as a quasi-magical bullet and means of (for some people literally) eliminating psychosis. And likewise, I felt that many people took up Anatomy as ostensible proof that antipsychotics were the primary cause of sustained or chronic psychosis (through supersensitization) and also that the case was more or less settled with respect to long-term iatrogenic harms.”

    This is quite amazing, actually, that the real thing that’s common, and that is prevalent worldwide in “developed” countries, and that people are confronted with, aggressively indoctrinated about, and intimidated with, is the magic bullet that psychiatric medications get rid of “psychosis.” What Open Dialogue does is to show a way that statistically DOES help with psychosis, rather than the true magic bullet of the chemical imbalance theory, which truly delves into the area of “there’s so much we don’t know,” because the whole story of how that works doesn’t add up to what the medications really do (they cause chemical imbalance rather than to treat it), nor do the statistics add up to getting rid of psychosis in general because they lead to more disability, relapsing, loss of life etc as well as a spike in the occurrence given the general implementation of the chemical imbalance theory as treatment in psychiatric diseases, and so all that’s left is that for those who it seems to help “we don’t know how it works.” In contrast what we DO know is that Open Dialogue statistically is more effective, in fact is effective rather than causing more of the problem it is said to heal. And Anatomy of an Epidemic also simply shares information that was there to clearly see, and should be shared so that it’s known, explaining the whole spike in mental illness. Anatomy of an Epidemic simply showed the correlation with the implementation of anti-psychotics and the increase in relapsing, disability, and statistic occurrence of the disease or diseases psychiatric medications were said to heal, since both ADHD medications and anti-depressants could and did and DO lead to further diagnosis where anti-psychotics end up being prescribed.

    And no I don’t think it’s open minded to convolute informed consent with information, that when warned about, people would correlate with “magic bullets” to avoid what they are warned about. In fact that’s quite reckless to negate such needed input, for whatever excuse, for anyone to make an informed well thought out decision. As well as it being recklessly dismissive to not promote methods that have been shown to work, against those that are accepted, but haven’t been shown to work but for a minority.

    There you have “magic bullets.”

  • I don’t think that Nev sees what Anatomy of an Epidemic is about, it’s simply what it is, reporting the statistics of what correlates with the increase in mental illness, and how anti-psychotics being prescribed, being recommended to the extent that they are and also being forced on people contribute to that. Those are facts, that’s not hypothesis. And Robert Whitaker isn’t at all trying to eradicate any use of anti-psychotics, which from Nev is used against him, as if that’s the result of his books. Because it ISN’T the responsibility of people who have have their whole life harmed by anti-psychotics to have vital information that could have prevented this pushed to the side because someone feels that it’s pill shaming. Or that because information that was suppressed when shared prevents those who would have been helped by anti-psychotics, when would such information be withheld ignores the whole consequent spike that clearly correlates with anti-psychotics.

    I also find it a mental fabrication to say that Open Dialogue imported here is a “Fantasy” (something that TRULY IS hypothesis, which she uses as an excuse to dismiss something that’s completely valid), because she finds that: “the idea that one could relatively neatly import an intervention from a rural, culturally homogeneous region of a high-income Nordic state with universal healthcare, robust social welfare systems, tuition free higher education, and so on, to parts of the US with deep poverty, entrenched structural racism, urban violence, etc., seemed like a fantasy.” That’s really quite aggressive dismissal of something that has been proven to work, and that HASN’T been tried in the US, simply because it’s not as pro drug as mainstream treatments promoted by pharmacy guilds, and the economics that sells drugs. And for her to stereotype Finland, deny that the same distress could happen there in other ways than happens in America, because in America we have:”deep poverty, entrenched structural racism, urban violence, etc.” as an excuse in dismissing as “fantasy” something that has been proven to work, that’s beyond concern, and is more actual paranoia masked with fabricated concern. Sorry. I have to call it for what it is here. And if it worked where there’s according to her less societal distress then why wouldn’t it work where there’s more societal distress. To simply dismiss even trying it and then calling it a fantasy facilitates what? There’s not enough resources to easily try it out!?

    What goes on then when someone has other ideas that should be tried out or investigated, that then is called a “fantasy” and are dismissed as such, when they come for help in working those ideas out as a patient? And are met with advice and ideas listing their own thoughts as a “fantasy” rather than what they propose should be looked into, tried out, given leg room like anything else. Soteria project hired people that were egalitarian, simply interested in what another said, the weird stuff: everything, and this cost less money and was more effective. Is that another “fantasy?” That also is something that was dismissed, although proven to be effective. A “fantasy.” How would this compare to a clinician patient relationship when someone proposes something? As if this can be known beforehand whether it has relevance or would work or help, and instead dismissed as a “fantasy.” Or listed as a fixation, when someone really feels it should be given legroom. In the same fashion, in that “rural, culturally homogeneous region of a high-income Nordic state with universal healthcare, robust social welfare systems, tuition free higher education, and so on” a region, where they don’t have .7 % of the people in jail, don’t maintain the death sentence, don’t incarcerate under inhumane conditions people for the length of time happening in the US, that it’s a fantasy a less severe penal system would work here with our: ” deep poverty, entrenched structural racism, urban violence, etc.” Whether she believes that or not, it’s the same argument so many people use to excuse the US incarceration level.

    It’s not as if Open Dialogue wouldn’t give people a chance of, as Nev states: “beginning to see the experiences that get labeled as psychosis as rich, complicated, meaning-laden, and fundamentally bound up with identity and selfhood..and thus centering meaning-making in clinical contexts, rather than reductionistic forms of therapy or intervention that primarily aim to contain, ameliorate, or enable “self-management.” Which Nev says is the change she wants to see.

    Open Dialogue already does that, and gives a person the place to feel safe to start finding the means to express their identity and selfhood.

    When something works it works, it’s really easy to make up intellectualized arguments that sound plausible as to why something won’t work to avoid the challenge a different method offers to what one has become invested in, and has a vocation in.

    And I’ve gone on enough now about “fantasies.”

  • And then Hurford talks about medications being like the “foundation” of a house. And without a foundation you can’t build the rest of the house.

    WHAT!?

    I have to laugh about something that totally isn’t funny…

    Causing a chemical imbalance that’s been proven, in the guise of treating one that’s alleged, in the process causing a whole epidemic of the “diseases” said to be treated, and then saying one needs the leeway to be able to force treatment more or advocate for it, or advertise it, or more money for research because there’s “compelling” evidence you will find the chemical imbalance that’s alleged, although the evidence that the chemical imbalance you are causing by treating an alleged one isn’t just based on compelling evidence you will find it, being that the chemical imbalance you’re causing by treating the alleged one: it’s already there and been proven…..

    And then it’s stated that the alleged chemical imbalance is taking away a person’s civil rights, which AGAIN is cause to take those away as well, along with causing a chemical imbalance that wasn’t there before while advertising you are treating one..

    Give people a chemical imbalance they didn’t have before, by saying you’re treating one.

    Take away civil rights because an alleged disease is doing that, which is quite amazing that “psychosis,” has THAT MUCH control over the whole judicial and medical system, which might actually mean that there is MORE psychiatric disease that’s not been diagnosed is it truly causing anyone to lose their civil rights, but then it’s those really taking away civil rights that need to be looked at.

    I didn’t know Hurford had such insight, although her aim is a bit askew. It’s those people giving you the right to take away civil rights that are the psychosis, the alleged disease, investigate that a bit more and you might get somewhere….

    HOW can one take this seriously!?

    Oh I forgot. I’ts like diabetes. This alleged disease that’s said to be caused by a chemical imbalance so you treat it by causing a proven chemical imbalance that’s shown to cause an epidemic of the alleged disease (still not proven to be caused by a chemical imbalance unless it’s from treatment when one treats the alleged chemical imbalance by causing a proven chemical imbalance) and all of this is how you create the foundation, NOT mind you for an epidemic, but for how you treat this alleged disease…

    And THEN you can start to build a house…

    (!?!?)

    Let’s see

    the foundation is creating a proven chemical imbalance by saying you’re treating an alleged one

    on top of that you can build a house

    brick number one: “the relapsing and disability and loss of life, along with side effects, and the loss of civil rights and self determination, this is from a disease caused by an alleged chemical imbalance, not from the proven chemical imbalance that’s the treatment.”

    brick number two: “If I or anyone with a diagnosis like mine doesn’t understand that, they have anogsognosia, which DOESN’T come from the medications causing the chemical imbalance, that’s treating an alleged one.”

    brick number three: “That people in developing countries where there’s no money for such medications do better, doesn’t mean that rich countries might try that, it means that one should develop those countries to be more rich, although that depletes their resources sort of like the medications do to my body causing side effects, but that’s progress.”

    brick number four: “It’s not that the arts, or philosophy, or great scientists in history that have created our culture had healthy minds, they’ve all been dubbed with psychiatric diseases as well, and it would be better if one could create a time machine to go fix them up, then society would be so much better, although there’s no proof for that either, as little as the chemical imbalance of the alleged disease has been found, but don’t suggest to create a time machine, that would be against the beliefs of statistical based norms and unhealthy emotionally, something the drugs can fix, again. And no, this isn’t because a time machine might disprove our theory.”

    brick number five: “Go volunteer to be a peer support specialist, give up on the time machine.”

    brick number six: “Don’t pay any attention to the foundation by now disintegrating, that’s because you need more medications.”

    brick number seven: “put that on the new and improved foundation….”

    brick number eight: “I know the foundation collapsed again, lets try shock therapy now.”

  • Um…
    The article reads a bit like something from eonline or a gossip column. Albeit she has snippets of information from a whole array of areas, but she dots back and forth from this one to that one much like the reports of what so and so is wearing, who is together with another or not or was etc. There really isn’t much depth, as much as she’s trying to make out she has real concern. She’d have to go deeper into the issues than dotting back and forth.

    It’s really depictive of people’s inability in general of maintaining attention, the ten second sound byte generation.

    One of the things I find most distressing are the blips or blurbs of statements about or from Irene Hurford, whose article in the New York Times I also have read now, linked from the Vice article. Her article already is another catchy piece designed to pique people’s interest and doesn’t venture into the territory of people who don’t read such articles to entertain the knowledge of being up on things, people who are most likely to end up targeted by much of psychiatry’s diagnosis and lack of acknowledgment in their environment. And the strangest thing is that’s actually touched on in the article itself (buy Love rather than Hurford), like what I’ve seen from a church that comes to the local mission and hands out used clothes and ziplock bags full of peanut butter sandwiches, junk food, little bottles of shampoo and soap, other little tokens like a necklace with a crucifix on it; and then remains proud of doing their part when they do this twice a year or so and then lock their doors behind them. And the lack of real substance to me points out that she really doesn’t have the ability to relate to someone she deems as being “psychotic,” and instead uses her concern of something she’s incapable of relating to to mask her inability, making out she’s involved with critical decision making instead. And that’s the simple truth for me. There are people who don’t get alarmed about “psychosis,” have no need to analyze it, that leave it to work itself out, or are able to make a person feel supported enough, without that soft lurking quiescent buzz in the background of I-might-have-you-committed. She talks about someone who when his father came to visit him went off of his meds and started smoking dope a lot. There’s absolutely no discussion what so ever about why he was on meds to begin with, why there was no support enough that allowed him to relate to his feelings enough to see that smoking dope every day wasn’t helping him, which in this case wasn’t, all of the dynamics with his family that become apparent with anyone still cogent about cause and effect aren’t even referred to, and then he’s back in the school whose “medical” programs regarding what he’s been through mostly push that into the background to promote what he’s already been forced into. And dope and psychiatric drugs both mess around with brain chemistry, what’s going on with someone that they prefer disabling what their brain itself might be trying to express, something that one would think has become uncomfortable to them, which both sides of the supposed support system (Hurford or the family) seem to show why there’s such discomfort and the reflex towards disabling the mind to avoid thoughts and feelings that have become uncomfortable, whether it’s with psychiatric drugs or dope. Then she talks about someone who had Aids, came into the ER and said they were a profit: sorry I mistyped it’s spelled Prophet, that REALLY was a “Freudian,”. She had him medicated, and knows nothing about him from there on. Ending the piece with: “I never found out what happened to him. I think about him often; I question my decision each time I do.” Wow! That’s a sly way to point out you need help understanding what you’re doing, but not really going forth to find out because of reticence. Just that she wanted to help becomes enough. The badge the medical establishment gives her, and thus she has to do “something.”

    Hurford’s approach isn’t even all that mainstream, she will say that psychosis isn’t just non reality based garbage, but the question still remains WHY someone like her is given the power they have, when there are many people who don’t become alarmed, who don’t need to feel they are helping by taking on such a badge, but that have the ability to understand the symbolism, the need for reflexes, memories, beliefs to come out in the open through a means, in this case labeled psychosis, that might expose the reflexes, memories, beliefs whose interactions with the brain are labeled as symptoms of psychosis, and give them leg room to not remain hidden in the interplay or reactions to life, and then a person might move beyond their present limitations; but then we come across the very fabric of society, the people Hurford and Shayla Love know how to get to read their writings, dotted with acceptable blurbs for those who want to know “something,” where they can assimilate a host of things without going deeply enough into any of them to go beyond such hip hop repertoire. Safe stuff to go to any school, church, parks and recreation classes, neighborhood leagues, Girlscout or Boyscout get together, sports club, political party etc. and start sharing how up you are on stuff.

    And Hurford talks about how “psychosis” is taking a person’s civil liberties away, which is a quite “amazing” concept. Decorated with their supposed inability to realize something is wrong, Thus she “medicates.” But speaking of what’s wrong, it’s not mentioned how psychiatric drugs have lead to more disability, relapsing, loss of life and paranoia about “psychosis” along with recycling of it with that paranoia strengthened and supported even when alternative approaches lead towards more recovery, whether the symptoms are gone because they were understood or simply not medicated; one wonders how one can respond at all to such an amazing convolution of what’s going on. “What we cause more of by taking away your civil liberties is taking away your civil liberties, so we continue to cause more of it to save your civil liberties, which we took away.” And WHAT is cause and effect!? That a psychotic person would have to deal with such indoctrination, such convoluted “logic,” and be a different effect from what those taking away their civil liberties are causing, and then have to figure out how to escape from such a situation!?

    I also find this something akin to confusion technique, all of the hip hop blurbs, because there are too many references to too many people, without delving any deeper, and one becomes incapable of remembering anything beyond a blurb, with the amount of stuff popping up; and would you want to address any of it, you have to start looking deeper yourself, after having identified the stuff that needs looking into; and then further more knowing by then that you are going to encounter stuff that just doesn’t fit this hip hop blurb world. It’s not quick fix, fast food enough. Can’t get it at the drive through or order it online with a few clicks. Not hanging on the corporate media output tree where cherries are ready to be picked.

    Shayla Love also mentions a clinician Nev Jones, who has concern about polarization, and mentions Robert Whitaker’s books as causing this: that parents refuse to allow their children to continue on medications (even when the medications were helping), or to start on them, this then is one anecdotal story from one clinician (one “cherry”); but has no reference to what extent the true evidence that’s not anecdotal is shared in Whitaker’s books, and yet implies that that shouldn’t be looked at or believed because of one anecdotal story. And the real polarization is apparent again. Don’t mention serious research that I can dot around and find one anecdotal story to contradict, when the serious research is already suppressed, and not in line with guilds, economic bubbles and corporate media.

    So, if someone comes up to you and seems to be psychotic, and tells you they are a prophet, at least ask them how you spell that…

  • mmarti2007

    Apart from seeing close friends lives destabilized by the mental health system, committing suicide or dying of other related causes brought on by the mental health system, I actually forgot that I know a story of someone being directly killed by the mental health system, in the city I live in. I only heard about it from someone who was a friend of a lady barber, who knew a poor elderly man who got thrown into this mess, where the lady barber had been trying to intercede and become his legal guardian. The poor old man had gone to the hospital distressed because of a valid skin condition. Because he was distressed they had suggested he take an anti-depressant, which he declined, and then he got committed. And that’s simple distress because of a skin condition. At one point he was in an asylum getting shock treatment, and the barber (who I still have to look up, I only know where she works) she was trying to become his legal guardian, but was being prevented by lawyers who had taken over his money, and consequently also being paid to be his guardians I think, the barber lady was told by the poor old man: “get me out of here, they’re killing me,” and next she heard he had an apartment for awhile, but then died. They had managed to take over his whole life. House Everything… Mindfreedom had TWO stories like this of girls who with their mother had gone to the ER, and when the mothers had stated they didn’t want their children on an anti-depressants for valid distress involving a physical condition, the girls were both thrown into the system, and were ward of the state.

    Stuff anyone of us hears regularly that others wouldn’t believe. It’s also QUITE scary the amount of nurses that go on anti-depressants, also when they are still in school.

    https://www.idealmedicalcare.org/75-med-students-antidepressants-stimulants/

    And you just have to truly research what anti-depressants really do to be highlyg concerned about how much anosognosia is going around regarding what the “medications” really do with the people who are supposed to tend to the sick.

    If your son is foaming at the mouth, because of the medications, and it’s not acknowledged that that could be causing him to choke, and that then it’s listed he’s trying to do that on purpose, this is so pretentious that most people would shriek upon hearing such nonsense, but people like us hear it regularly regarding psychiatric treatment reports.

    One can only assume, given that your son never wanted to abruptly be forced off of clozapine, that he wasn’t told why he needed to have blood tests, and wasn’t told that if he refused them that they couldn’t keep him on clozapine. When I do a search for clozapine and blood tests, it also mentions that when someone has been on it as long as your son was, they only require blood tests every month; but it’s quite clear that they didn’t avert at all a crisis, and didn’t tell your son they needed blood drawn to get his prescription, and when the pharmacists said he needed the blood test, they didn’t give him one afterwards. Here:
    https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/cpd-and-learning/learning-article/how-clozapine-patients-can-be-monitored-safely-and-effectively/11138788.article?firstPass=false
    it says that after one has been on clozapine for 34 weeks (your son was on it for 16 months) that one only has to have monthly blood tests, so they still had two weeks to get the next test in. And that’s information that’s freely available online. And clearly if they had told your son this, he would have complied with a blood test, it really wasn’t that he was refusing all blood tests.

    I have to tell you that I’ve experienced this all over the place, that as SOON as people think that you’re crazy, you can’t do any normal thing that they might be suspicious of without them adding on ad hoc diagnosis. It’s not a pleasant experience to have a needle stuck in you every week, and it should be understandable should someone not like it – if that is even the case that he refused – but to not make it clear why it would be necessary, while it’s completely clear that he would have complied since he called you up begging you to get them to reinstate his clozapine, that’s highly irresponsible. It’s like your son is supposed to be a mind reader, when there’s no way he could know that the blood tests are necessary or his clozapine won’t be refilled. It sounds like mostly that because he didn’t want a test, and wasn’t compliant, that they hurled their own irresponsibility at him for not telling him why the test would be necessary when then he would have taken it. And it seems that they cover all of that up thinking he’s being non-compliant, as if he’s supposed to be a mind reader or be seen as non compliant. And that’s another thing; as soon as they think someone is crazy, they don’t openly talk to that person anymore, but get together and make ad hoc diagnosis, without even finding out what’s going on with that person. Here, all they had to do is tell him why the blood test was necessary. And one is left having to convince them that they aren’t dealing with or relating to you anymore; instead of them honestly or openly dealing with you, you have to deal with paranoia do you have what’s really normal healthy self determination anymore, or question them about normal things anyone should want to know. WHERE ELSE in medicine do they do such things?

    We all have heard this story about psychiatric drugs being like diabetes – which isn’t true https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OVNiLKjMME – but can you see them not telling a person that he needs blood work to get his prescription filled, when he is on diabetes medications, and then taking him off of them without telling him beforehand why the test work is necessary if he declined such tests although would have taken them did he know they were necessary. But here, someone can’t not want to take a test they aren’t informed of as to why it’s necessary, without being treated as if they are supposed to know that. And who is the “professional!?”

    And EXCUSE ME, but someone is going to say there’s something wrong with me when I think: “you know that’s just like fascism: when you’re not allowing yourself to be controlled by another, when you don’t just simply to as you’re told, you’re non compliant.” And all they had to do is explain why the blood tests were necessary. It’s about someone not questioning them, and doing what they are told to do, or be seen an non compliant, or showing “symptoms” of a “disease.”

    And how did he get two black eyes, and how is him foaming at the mouth because of medications equated with a suicide attempt on his part, and how can it not be seen that a medication that they are informed of he can’t take is going to cause terrible side effects when given to him (while going cold turkey off of others, and not just one)!?

    And mmarti2007. This is all really disturbing stuff, that would push anyone over the deep end. I hope you do things like take walks, watch sunsets, do yoga, meditate, listen to calm soothing music, go to museums, read books that sooth you about life and that it all comes out in the end, read poetry, write poetry, play a musical instrument, eat healthy food (lots of vegetables and green stuff). I’ve taken a break from the computer twice writing this, to do yoga. This is all highly abusive distressing stuff that most people when they hear about it either don’t believe it, disassociate from considering it, or even blame it on the victim.

    And I would perhaps encourage you not to watch scary movies that are full of scary chase scenes making you feel something is after you, because that adrenaline will put you on edge and rob you of the answers that might be there when you haven’t been driven to distraction and desperation; even when you feel guilty you’re not doing something, or feel like you’re being defeated not doing anything, it could be better to just let go of stuff, and let the truth shine, because that’s not going to go away. None of us can know what went on with these terribly paranoid brainwashed people to get them into such a fascist state, but sometimes, when we get out of the way, the the turth (or God if you will) has the chance to shine through.

    These people are going to fixate on anything they have the chance to “diagnose” in order to disassociate from all the compromises they’ve made in life. Like the old church bitties that start gasping when anyone shows up in easy clothes, too colorful clothes or behavior, hair too long looking too much like the pictures of Jesus etc..

    There’s no great loss in getting out of the way, sometimes.

  • mmarti, you stated: ” Then, in his 10th month there, they received over $7000 in backpay — things happened and he began asking about the money. That very day – they instantly “ran out” of his 500mg of Clozapine. He immediately called me, scared, asking if he was going to have to go to the hospital. I assured him I would call to get his Clozapine reinstated. I called and was met with incompetent, defensive, rude staff members, blaming my son for everything.”

    Could you tell us more about what these people said? Because not only did they take him off of Clozapine, which one just can’t do cold turkey, certainly not ignoring the effect; but they also put him on Haldol, which you told them that he can’t take. I don’t think that would happen in any other branch of the medical community that it’s simply ignored that someone already had a bad reaction to a medication, or that they don’t acknowledge withdrawal symptoms in such a manner. In fact in other branches they would ask you, such as the question whether you’re allergic to antibiotics. And he could have died from it (and you were almost not allowed to see him), which brings another matter up, that often after someone dies in an asylum that there isn’t any proper autopsy done, and the reporting of how often psychiatric drugs kill someone is under reported, although we still hear about it. And it hasn’t stopped, and the psychiatrists are only given a hand slap. Probably there’s been no action by the system regarding the psychiatrist that abruptly changed his meds and then put him on haldol while no one would listen to the fact that it was known he couldn’t take that drug. ALL psychiatric drugs have bad side effects which are often not tended to. And they aggressively attribute withdrawal symptoms and side effects to an alleged disease…

    I mean this should be reported such behavior. Sherry Julo who wrote this blog has quite a few stories of how she wasn’t listened to as well. And that’s all allowed in the system, and the horrible effects are somehow excused, even when they kill people.

  • mmarti I read your response, and also your post from more than a year ago: https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/06/abolishing-forced-treatment-in-psychiatry-is-an-ethical-imperative/#comment-157028
    I don’t know what to say other than I’m trying to not cry, just so I can stay clear and maybe send some hope, some healing energy, and then a tear trickles down, regardless…

    It’s ABSOLUTELY insane. Someone that had difficulty because they tried a street drug, doesn’t need to be assaulted with other controlled substances, that’s truly insane. Don’t even try making any sense out of it.

    And I don’t know how to commend your behavior that you got your son OUT OF such a situation, and spared his life. It’s like anything I’d say wouldn’t be enough.

    I’ve seen this myself, when someone in an asylum was prescribed said medication, and then got out, but couldn’t get nor had a prescription for it — I think there was no psychiatrist available, I can’t even remember exactly, but it was so irresponsible you just go into shock trying to cognate it — and then had to titrate off of what she willingly was taking that they had put her on in the asylum, but they couldn’t get her a prescription for when she got out!? They have enough money for fooling everyone with ads, and enough money to imprison someone within an asylum, and enough money to keep the psychiatrists in their niche https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Psychiatrist-Salary-by-State But force taking someone off cold turkey, not listening to advice regarding ill effects of the new medications forced on him which he already couldn’t tolerate; ignoring signs of how it’s killing him…

    And it seems it just started because he dared to ask something about where certain money went, which it seems you can’t ask them; which I don’t know if that was the case, but why could it or would it be?

    From what I’ve seen, as soon as you are monitored by them, there’s a whole list of normal concerns you might have that you can’t voice, or be seen as disruptive, non compliant, you name it….

    If that was the case, they probably tried to make him out to show signs of paranoia, because he had a legitimate question about where the money went.

    That’s really just torture and mind control, that’s not medical treatment.

    What is going on with a “society” that can just assault someone with labels and pills, and have the “society” ignore what the pills are doing, or they’d have to question the labels!?

    I have to deal with that every day, although I’ve never been forced on a psychiatric drug, and never taken any, people are so ripe as to how they’ve compromised themselves to a dysfunctional society, and so in need of not questioning their brainwashing lest the whole pretense they think their existence is based on would fall apart believing they are in danger would it, that they are so stuffed with labels they pop right out of them at any moment causing alarmist responses have they heard anything about someone being “crazy,” or anything that goes with social non compliance. And they’re more up on that then what’s really going on, which explains a lot… And they’re real spiteful, angry, resentful, hateful. Once they think anything’s going on, you can’t do anything unusual, or else.

    Anyhow

    To show that I’m still “crazy,” and “non reality based” to those people, I’ll say that it’s not crazy to trust God, and that is realistic.

    And don’t worry about those people, don’t let it get to you, who knows what they went through to get the way they are, but if you let go of it that can be attended to by what other people would say is impossible…

    You’ve already done quite a few “impossible” things just to save your son’s life.

    “Impossible” things aren’t impossible…

    And my heart goes out to you…

  • I feel so for you, what you’ve been through. Like running around in a war zone, no one wanting to hear the horrors it leaves you in while they keep the war going. This whole war against the brain’s natural responses, you can see that even calling something a panic attack can be predatory to get you to become a drug company consumer. The very labeling of any symptoms itself.

    You’ve come a long way not giving up, thank God you didn’t, and are doing something to help thousands of others. That’s beautiful! Thank You for sharing your story so that others know they aren’t alone!

    Sometimes when it seems that my brain has abandoned me, just waiting a bit longer while thinking it’s not going to something surprisingly kicks in, I’ve noticed myself, if that helps at all (not all the time, but it’s so soothing when it does): Am I going to remember that word? What was I doing again? Why am I in this room?

    Everything labeled as a psychiatric symptom can have an intelligence of its own, that when allowed to just be felt rather than reacted to (I don’t like this feeling, how can I get rid of it, what drug will help, this is going to ruin my life if it doesn’t go away) can be much gentler and more subtle and more helpful than trying to get rid of it, although we’re trained to think we have to.

    It’s not just psychiatric drugs, it’s the whole consumer oriented society people are trained to think will solve their problems; everything from food to entertainment to technology. And we’re incredibly being setup to be consumers.

  • In reply to Steve, adding on to his comments.

    Since this blog is about whistle blowers being suppressed, an attempt to get it back on topic.

    I think it’s divisiveness that divides the two political parties that together with their arch of two polarized poles pressing against each other create basically the business party, one big party. Divide and conquer. Both parties that it’s made up of exploited to be causing the divide demanding that people chose between the two. And it’s exactly that which has kept the hegemony and the economy of the psychiatric treatment that this blog and Robert Whitaker’s amazingly articulate exposé tries to point out treats whistle blowers the way it does.

    I also find it divisive to lineup everything that appears to be on someone’s political platform, that regarding politics where it could change at any moment, certainly after elections; and then to tag anyone that at any point is in accord with anything in that line regarding certain issues as being a supporter of that side, next comes the label of what’s wrong with the whole “other” side. That’s like saying if you buy ANY groceries at the wrong store, you’re ruining the economy. One place might have better vegetables, and another better of something else, and the third that one thing you need although everything else you don’t find up to par.

    If Del Bigtree supported one stance of Trump regarding one particular political issue calling him a hero, doesn’t mean he voted for Trump. He actually works much more with Robert Kennedy Junior, who certainly isn’t in Trump’s party. Are we then to be on Trump’s side because of Del Bigtree working with Kennedy? Are all Democrats supposed to not be in agreement with the Republicans, or Trump or be on the wrong side; or are the Republicans not supposed to agree with the Democrats and not with Trump, or are the Democrats supposed to be in agreement with Trump but not the Republicans; or should they all disagree with themselves and each other to make sure no one is supporting the wrong side; everyone making sure they don’t work with or agree with anyone at all regarding anything on any political platform that could end up supporting the wrong side!? Same with the Bollingers to bring religion into it as well. You’d have to ask them who they actually voted for or support in the next election not just look at one stance they have with one or two issues. And whether they voted for Trump or still support him, which I wouldn’t know but to me looks like they don’t, that has nothing to do with whether their book has helped people, a book that has 88% five star ratings. And they have many success stories helping people with cures. Am I on the wrong side would I want to read the book even if they are Trump supporters when I don’t know if they are and don’t necessarily believe someone else labeling them as such, or am I supposed to e-mail them and anyone else to ask first would I be interested in them or overlook their statement about covid death statistics, although I don’t believe that particular statement but am interested in the extensive research they’ve done on alternative cancer cures?

    And yes I’m being floridly sarcastic spinning something into the absurd to make a point. One should simply be able to have interest in good things one sees in another faction regardless of other points of disagreement.

    This also was about people promoting holistic health and alternative methods. That remains something radically different than what Trump has been touting, save a few points.To round up in such a manner making a conglomeration of so and so’s political platform stating one is on said side given their stance on those issues I think that’s polarizing and exactly how Trump got the support he did; grouping resentments together inside of what’s for who knows what reason called populism, as if it’s popular to just be reactive. In fact I remember that all of the other candidates on their own did better against the other side than Trump did (as Sanders also was polled to do better than Clinton); but Trump went along with polarity and its numbers.

    When you compare a person’s actions to Bush with “you’re for us or against us,” I see that as a clear analogy with content rather than just labels. I find that a clear example of what happens when you dismiss anyone who has political points the same as another seen as the wrong side, and refuse to look at a whole array of other issues; the same anyone not for Bush’s war was seen as against him, regardless of any other issues or any other way. That example has nothing to do with Bush either, it’s an example of behavior not of a person, to dismiss that as incendiary and defaming because Bush is involved, is yet another cleavage. And that’s an example of such behavior rather than excusing it if you are on the “right” side, in this case dismissing those in accord with one specific issue one is against, rather than a military war, thankfully. Beyond that there might also actually be Bush supporters that could use examples of his behavior that were commendable, and that might actually also be so in regards other issues, even ones not involving politics at all.

    Naomi Klein coined the phrase disaster politics, exploiting the fact that a disaster destabilizing a region makes vulnerable people more prone to suggestion; the basic method such psychiatrists as Cameron took part in with MK-Ultra, and what Naomi delineates turned into what she calls the Shock Doctrine in taking over whole economies. And how is this paralleled when someone (mentioned above as a whistle blower) tries to point out that said commodity people desperately might think they or others need isn’t really doing what it’s touted to, and might make things worse?

    Sadly people are dying of covid, but how much is that used as disaster politics because people are desperate for an answer, and in the process of looking for one are assaulted with various factions touting one method and discarding others rather than anyone being allowed or encouraged to take what’s good from all of them. And people that promote holistic health or natural cures really aren’t the ones with all of the money that have been playing disaster politics the whole time.

  • In response to Steve:
    What is choosing sides?
    Because that brings to mind  when Mind Freedom had their freedom strike, a hunger strike and challenged the APA to prove mental illness was biological. Some platitude was delivered about how much disability there is and how much suffering that people can’t adapt to statistical based norms, without addressing at all the actual challenge (can you prove it’s a chemical imbalance), other than stating one should look in textbooks which actually state that there’s no proof, although they list medications as treatment…. that in colleges that since the early 80s have been fronts for investment institutions, although not exactly investment institutions in themselves, and so they’re going to go with the economics of what’s selling statistically and what isn’t.

    But the term “statistical based norms,” that’s like you’re with us or on the other side, which characterizes exactly what kind of statistics are involved, because that isn’t the statistics showing what brings people together, when others are left out and are supposed to think there’s something wrong with them when they can’t adapt to such “statistics.”

    And then there’s “consensual reality deportment,” along with “statistical based norms” used to perceive symptoms of a mental illness.

    Both of us admire Richard’s ability to take care that people aren’t shod to go tramping around reporting false data,

    But when one runs into people with a diagnosis, one runs into people that actually have reason to get disturbed from what they know (about politics and how it doesn’t work), and you learn everything that goes on in such a complex jumble of how not to do it, and it isn’t allowed to go anywhere, or being that that works it messes up our dreams of a better way which we mesmerize people with; so I can go on and on about it, now being assumed to want to take sides, but it’s disingenuous to dismiss the rest of what’s shared when someone doesn’t go along with the statistical based norms of what’s considered statistics regarding what’s coming from organizations that have been shown to put a spin on whatever is corporate enough to be part of mainstream economy, even when the site or group not part of mainstream hegemony is even further off. Simply because they share something that would otherwise be overlooked, and is needed for a complete picture.

  • The two political parties (in the USA) that have created the deadlock (one has maybe 10 percent more change than the other, and we need at least 60 percent) are both actually, as Chomsky states, together the business party, and it’s such behavior that causes the suppression of people like Kavanagh, which this blog is about, because of business interests. Both parties facilitating suppressing whistle blowers regarding the FDA.

    I also think that the war between the two parties is pushing more sensitive issues to the side (including what this blog is about), issues that will continue to kill more people, if not addressed, than covid is going to. And I’ve stated those issues clearly, neither does that mean I’m not concerned about covid or negating those deaths, or overlooking data regarding it, or overlooking how to deal with covid, or agreeing with false statements regarding covid. I don’t think one can discard major issues regarding health and what supports the immune system regardless that other issues are handled badly such as whether one wears masks, whether there’s social distancing and the death count. I think people should wear masks, I go along with social distancing and I don’t think the death count is exaggerated to the extent that’s reported, but I also believe that would people take care of themselves, would they have adequate water, would their environment not be as toxic, would they have any kind of decent working conditions and further more would they be able to take care of themselves that then along with the other measures that that might save more lives than just the measures that are stressed. And I am saying that that goes along with the other measures, not instead of it. But that might save in addition more lives, and also would continue to keep saving lives that were lost before covid ever turned up. To go back on topic, such a lack of being able to take care of oneself given economic standing and environment is used as a means to diagnose people with a mental illness, because of the symptoms that emerge from such lack, such disregard, rather than their living conditions are acknowledged.

    Richard, I’m not on either side, and I’m not going to contribute to the architecture that’s caused the deadlock. As I mentioned regarding polarization, both political parties in the US lean on each other creating an arch with two beams, both beams pressing against each other creating an arch supporting each other blocking any other party or more alternative views; and although you criticize me for stating you are polarizing, say that’s a heavy accusation and negative descriptors, you then do exactly that asking me what side I’m on, as if do I see any good in the other I’m on the wrong one, or that I have to chose sides. That’s polarizing, plain and simple. I’m not going to add to the pressure on either side holding the whole blockage in place.

    Also trying to intimidate that people have to take sides, in whatever conflict, as if that’s the only way or they are required to, also creates the kind of stress that not only causes inability to relate to what’s human on the other side, but causes the immune system to break down with the fight or flight response, which in this case is the fight response.

    My responding to your posts is also over now, your last post was radically off topic and I feel I’m being exploited playing catch for or thrown into someone else’s issues that already are highly off topic and distracting.

  • I’m trying to get this straight, to follow this, and wonder whether this is right:

    When you increase the percentage of children that are apt to get referred to as having ADHD, and also given that children are more likely to have covid, you dramatically increase over a whole arena the amount of correlation with ADHD and covid, because children are more likely to have it regardless of diagnosis. And then include this with age groups where covid is more dangerous, without making age differences, that adds to the scare. Then also negate to add that the younger group which is added to the total, is less likely to get any severe symptoms of covid, although they are included with the total of people that are more likely to get severe symptoms, and you can say that ADHD can lead to covid, and the ADHD should be medicated. And then the correlation with ADHD medications leading to severe symptoms – it breaks down the blood brain barrier, and also shouldn’t be subscribed if children already have breathing problems and/or heart problems – that’s also left out. As is the evidence that ADHD medications in general have troubling side effects, and can give severe side effects, and can lead to further diagnosis which wasn’t the case before such medications were so highly used.

    And I wonder how much I’ll be targeted as “non-reality-based,” would I point out that ADHD medications have created a whole pandemic in itself; leading to future diagnosis, disability, loss of life expectancy etc. and this whole setup is quite profound; because they’re dealing with a definition of an illness that’s not objective (there isn’t any real proof of a chemical imbalance), and what fixes the problem without such an assumption also isn’t acknowledged, added to that the “medications” for the disease aren’t seen to be fixing anything but a behavior that’s critiqued – although that quite marginally, and weighs more on the observance of those dolling out the medications than the person themselves or their family – and there’s no concrete evidence that that leads to better health physically, in fact it’s the opposite; and to go into the extreme, although I’m dolling out a comparison that undoubtedly would be used to make out I’m extremist, it’s like saying that putting your child on a leash, or in a straight jacket and locking him or her up in a closet is helpful when they are in danger of catching something running around too much and being hyperactive, while pushing to the side and suppressing what happens when you actually talk to the child in a way that they can relate to rather than just trying to control them.

    Beyond that in countries where they don’t have $$$$$$$ for medications, and inmates are treated in inhumane ways, they have more recovery; which isn’t to support inhumane treatment, it’s what “medications” really do.

    Or should we bring back the rod to get rid of covid. And is there compelling evidence that locking your children up will send the common flue into outer space where NASA sent a “vinyl” recording of the Queen of the Night aria?

    And would that be a “capitalist” setup to sell record players to the space aliens, or in this case vaccines against the flues that might end up infecting the rest of the Universe, which I do think is a problem.

    Now….

    sorry about that….

    This becomes very sad when children that just possible need a little bit of legroom are rounded up and used as evidence that because they get covid more often and survive it, that giving them “medications” that would compromise their ability to survive it would help others who already are more compromised.

  • You guys, I’m having to laugh at even trying to make sense out of words like capitalism or then socialism, which so often is made out to be the bad guy then..

    What goes on here with whistleblowers being persecuted, because they’d interfere with $$$$$$$$ actually points to a system that is basically what capitalist fundamentalists would say is what’s wrong with socialism, that an elite few can control others, and suppress dissenting information, so…..

    Quite rampant in corporate politics, such “socialism.”

    Or religions that say that the devil is out to torture you and your enemy, but then use him as their “disciplinarian” or “deterrent” would anyone not conform to their ideology and end up in a Hell that would have no function and might dissipate all together did they not need such a “deterrent” for mind control.

  • Regarding that one is supposed to show the change the psychiatrist, or the result, that he wants, but is the psychiatrist even dealing with the person he’s trying to change at all. And what if the person actually believes this?

    I’ve actually walked around for many years (about 25), a fraction of the time (maybe 10 to 15 percent ) being in a state psychiatry could call psychotic, although…

    What am I supposed to say about that,

    It really ended up being as simple as not realizing that I was reflexively pushing thoughts to the side or feelings I had encountered in my youth that then had already received such a critical response that the feelings themselves coming up made me uncomfortable, restless with the unconscious memory of the response to them, and I’d start doing something like drinking too much coffee, sometimes way too much. An attempt to disassociate. Well, then those feelings end up expressing themselves in a sort of dream state, with symbolism, that’s not just psychosis and non-reality based thoughts. And coffee (cigarettes too) act like psychiatric drugs, or are in ways, as is sugar. How they effect dopamine and with coffee at least also serotonin. And any restless anxious behavior trying to get away from an unconscious memory one isn’t able to comprehend can effect the brain, from the simple anxiety. Although ADHD drugs and antidepressants aren’t necessarily an attempt to disassociate from feelings and thoughts, that could be the case, or it could be that a person is forced to see their response as having something wrong with it, a symptom of a disease rather than their own nature an attempt at unconscious dissent or a response to their environment, that’s then called symptoms if it has anything to do with it, but ADHD medications and antidepressants also mess around with brain chemistry enough that one in 20 or so on those drugs end up with a bipolar diagnosis, right next to schizophrenic or schizo-effective. More drugs.

    I knew this the whole time about psychiatric drugs, and how they cause chemical imbalance when they disable one from expressing symptoms, and don’t treat a chemical imbalance but cause one which we are supposed to believe, so I wasn’t going for that; but the amount of ridiculous social behavior from people thinking they “know” you have a disease, and with all of the media hype regarding dangers of unmedicated people, when mostly the danger comes FROM how the medications disable the mind, you get so incredibly targeted by brainwashed people I’m still quite shocked how much that goes on, the same one is shocked at any number of false things people believe, or historically have. And they start talking about you en mass as if you’re some object completely disconnected from your own experience, and when you don’t believe them and/or aren’t following set method anything you do can be misinterpreted, when it’s at all unusual. Anything. Nor are people adverse to lying about you. It’s like I’m supposed to be someone else I never could be, and have tendencies I never could have and convince people that that’s not going to happen, which never could to begin with, in order for them to consider how I actually experience all of this, when I’m experiencing this, not them, although they think they know what’s going on. And that’s not just from psychiatrists who I actually didn’t have to deal with since the psychiatrist I saw gave me the leeway to not take medications and seek alternative routs. And the social behavior I just mentioned is just the instances when they have decided you have a disease, that’s not the hatred the bullying and the mobbing, which anyone being at all different can encounter, whether they have a diagnosis or not.

    I imagine this psychiatrist was talking about the result he wanted, much like someone promotes exerting their ego and redecorating their house, which makes me laugh already: How would the psychiatrist respond would you try to point out that he seems to be quite phobic about listening to what his clients really want? and I wonder how one could conflate that with him thinking his house might talk back to him.

    “Sir, you seem to be so scared of me having my own ideas it makes me wonder whether you have heard you house express dissent from how you redecorated it, and thus can’t deal with anything your brain might entertain that you think is psychotic.”

    One guy that used to live in an apartment underneath me, had been force treated, and had to see a “therapist” but didn’t want to. He told me it ruined his whole day, and he just hadn’t gone to see her, then she called him up and asked him if he needed a ride, where upon he either said no or hung up the phone. The next day the police showed up to escort him to the asylum because the “therapy” he said ruined his whole day was not something he wanted to go to, and in the asylum the psychiatrist asked him whether he thought anyone was after him….

    I was visiting someone at an asylum, she basically had needed someone to talk to as a child, had gotten for some reason hyperactive, and her parents had been told to put her on a drug that caused her to gain weight to such an extent that her father chased her around with a belt chastising her for that, she also couldn’t stay awake to pay attention because of the drugs, where she was further disciplined at school, and her parents told to take part in that. And as it seems endless to go on about such stuff I’ll try to continue, but there’s so many off shoots I don’ t know where it will end up. She had a relationship with a guy, and they were talking about getting married, which the father heard about from the guy but wasn’t supposed to, who you can pretty much guess wasn’t capable of much discussion with such matters, and the girl freaked out and put herself in the asylum and was voluntarily getting shock therapy. I understand that after that she was in a state asylum for a year, but a few (maybe 5 or 6) years ago I ran into her, and I asked her if she had someone to talk to, and she mentioned she lived with her mother and she could talk to her. Seems like a rather bumpy road just to find that (someone to talk to). Anyhow, back in the asylum I went to visit her in, there was a guy standing there that I had seen around, and he was standing at the central desk behind which the attendants and a secretary or so dwelt (computers and other recording devices such as pens at hand, and a phone probably also at their disposal); he looked so much like someone had propped him up there, with his jaw sagging as if he had just watched the most inexplicable thing happen, and so I asked him: “what are you doing here?” and he replied: “I don’t know.” So I simply stated: “Just follow the rules and do what you’re told, and you’ll get out.” When I got to the visiting area, the girl I was visiting and another patient started bounding back and forth like a tennis match with information as to why the guy was there. He had gone to the local “Catholic” hospital in the middle of the city, and had announced that he was pregnant. Now, I have to add that years before this, on a whim to do something crazy, I had called that same hospital and ask a joke inquired whether they had pregnancy tests for males. The lady that answered in a quite mundane voice stated that they didn’t have such tests. In fact she responded so blandly that I later for years wondered if it would have made any difference had responded by asking her to not put her makeup on while I’m asking her a serious question, and repeat the inquiry. I don’t know whether she actually was putting makeup on, it just gave that impression. But of course when this guy walked in there, not only did they not tell him that they didn’t have the ability to determine if he was pregnant, or what that might mean to him, they escorted him to the asylum, where he had been for maybe a month, and was so drugged up he looked like a zombie. The girl I was visiting and the other patients mentioned that the psychiatrists couldn’t figure out whether he thought he was pregnant, or whether he thought he was female. Serious diagnosis! Etc.. And why I’m going on about this is that the other patient had also mentioned how a psychiatrist had asked him whether he had homicidal thoughts: “Would you be here if I had homicidal thoughts,” he said he had responded. And then had of course been asked whether he had suicidal thoughts, and responded in the same vein with: “Would I be here if I had suicidal thoughts,” which he said seemed to make the psychiatrist mad enough that he was happy about that.

    Do you have homicidal thoughts?
    Do you have suicidal thoughts?
    Do you think anyone is after you?

    “No sir, when you force me on treatment, ruin my day by forcing me to talk to someone I can’t stand, I know that’s for my own good…”

    The guy that had some sort of pregnancy did get out, and when I ran into him in the park I later found myself feeding a whole group of sea gulls. Throwing pieces of bread up in the air which they caught.

    I for awhile did this more regularly, fed seagulls. In fact, I had found a whole loaf of discarded bread, which seemed to be in the works for the seagulls. It was just lying there askance half on the sidewalk half on the grass along the path I was riding on my bike after visiting my parents. I could have just left it there, but remembered the seagulls. I had taken it home squeezed and twiddled the soft bread into little balls, where it ended up in the freezer for awhile, till I put it in my back pack and took it with me having it long enough that the balls had melted. I ended up at a store with a big parking lot where the bus stops, and there always are a score of seagulls around there. I started throwing the bread up for them to catch, and I’ve never seen anything like it. The whole colony of seagulls was in the air, together, in complete harmony, and one by one, they took turns catching a piece of bread I threw up, never fighting about it, and letting the next one take his turn. It was the most amazing magnificent thing, and also as mundane to me as being able to breath air whose molecules have the same harmony. I think that the state I was in then could have easily been called psychotic by many people, in fact had I been “sane” I might have tried to make too much out of it, and it wouldn’t have happened.

    That’s called murmurating perhaps, if you’ve seen a whole flock of birds moving through the sky as one, https://theconversation.com/starling-murmurations-the-science-behind-one-of-natures-greatest-displays-110951 An incredible phenomenon of nature. Not something you can accomplish when the goal is the “result” you want, I think you have to be more in tune with harmony than that.

  • In case anyone wonders, by this time what the BLEEP this blog is about by now, down there somewhere I stated this:

    “I think that the Bollingers would be quite able to see what this blog actually is about, and that’s about whistle blowers, and what happens to them. Natural cures have very much the same story, over and over again.”

    Since this has gone way beyond the initial topic of the blog.

    Richard, my point remains the same from the beginning, you are polarizing a discussion using the terminology you use. Pointing out what you think is flawed information from a blog which deserves caution in believing or not is something different than categorizing the whole blog, or the people. That also fails to point out what exactly is flawed information, but instead categorizes a whole site. There basically isn’t ANY source just about that doesn’t have errors in it, that’s just how the human mind works which is more in the world of mental constructs and working those out, so there’s going to be mistakes; which is part of human nature in trying out different beliefs.

    Using such terminology also is nondescript, which you point out several times referring to “capitalism,” while defending mainstream cancer cures, and making it sound as if more natural cures here shared deserve the label of being seen as “capitalistic” and for profit oriented while natural cures don’t at all have the $$$$ to pay for the type of trials that the FDA demands (which the pharmaceuticals do have the $$$$$) although natural cures have been shown to work and there are other less expensive trials as accurate; beyond that the cures that aren’t pharmaceutical are often simply suppressed. And then you talk about who has a voice and who doesn’t, while natural cures DON’T have a voice in such a field and ARE suppressed. And what is the conspiracy theory then, a label or a belief that because they have such money and clout, that the drug companies and the big guys have the cures and the natural cures are “hoax” “nonsense” etc.?

    And the info about the inflated death counts the Bollingers share seems to be quite incorrect (although I’m not going to say that one can simply believe, without question, what the CDC and/or Fauci doles out, but in this case that seems to be accurate from them) but disbelieving the CDC remains what people hold onto when they’ve encountered such suppression by the FDA, but that DOES NOT make them Trump supporters, as little as that Del Bigtree because he also disagrees with mainstream medical belief is in the same ballpark as Trump etc. And you don’t know that about them, and to put them in such a category, also bringing politics into the discussion as if that’s another way to brand them (either way, are they or aren’t they) is again labeling and polarizing and bringing the conversation away from being articulate. It also initiates the architecture of the two main parties needing such polarization as two parts of an arch leaning against each other for two way hegemony.

    You’re creating factions and riffs and cleavages, and inciting divisions as if they are necessary; which is what leads to people getting lost thinking they need to chose sides, losing their voice, and without that they can’t find their way to know what their instincts tell them, which is the only way they can be themselves; and then they can’t find the treatment that would help them.

    I think that the Bollingers would be quite able to see what this blog actually is about, and that’s about whistle blowers, and what happens to them. Natural cures have very much the same story, over and over again.

    They (the Bollingers) state their beliefs very clearly in their “about” link on their site:

    “And the truth is that we should all have the freedom to choose!

    … freedom to choose the best cancer treatment protocol

    … freedom to say “yes” or “no” to chemotherapy

    … freedom to “try” a treatment that hasn’t been “approved” by the FDA

    … freedom to vaccinate

    … freedom NOT to vaccinate”

    And I can NOT keep on responding to a debate that has gone way off topic and out of the ballpark, I don’t have a secretary to keep track of it, and I have other things to do with my time than spending trying to keep track of it which has already been overloading me. You’ve tried to equate a widely diverse group of people: ” the Bollingers, Del Bigtree, Peter Breggin, Trump” as under the same roof and to be treated the same way, when they aren’t at all. And except for a few points you use to group them together they are widely divergent, and I think everyone there but Trump would be quite in agreement with the stance here on psychiatric treatment, but I don’t know other than Breggin their beliefs regarding it.

    And come to think of it in afterthought, you mention those most vulnerable to Covid, but fail to mention that they were already vulnerable to a host of issues such as inadequate, food, water, having to live in a toxic environment, high stress situations regarding economic standing; whether the Covid death rate is accurate again, HARPING on that, getting a whole planet obsessed with that, and overlooking more serious issues (that have been killing people more, and in all likelyhood looks like it will be allowed to continue) issues all of those people have had to deal with the whole time, again is using Covid media as a coverup to neglect more serious issues. Vaccinating everyone in Africa isn’t going to magically feed people or clean the environment there, nor stop wars for example, which is just ONE area.

  • How much is labeling things to discourage further delving into what’s stated any different from disabling the brain with chemical agents from being able to? All because one behavior or statement has been analyzed as dangerous, wrong, psychotic or delusional.

    I lose track of how many times I’m reading through a blog or watching a video on youtube that has truly insightful information beyond the scope of what one is supposed to believe is credible, and then one hears something akin to the moon landing being staged, and a government hoax. And even if that IS conspiracy theory, that doesn’t make the rest of what’s shared the case.

    It’s like people who have been diagnosed with a mental illness. Someone that’s called “schizophrenic,” is going to have gone through stuff that perhaps pushed them over the deep end, stuff they weren’t able to process, stuff they couldn’t get support just being listened to in regards, and stuff that’s beyond the perspective of what most people can even see going on; thus the person having gone through it is going to end up in the ghetto and beyond that the graveyard where such stuff is entertained, and having reached the incredible there is going to be stuff that’s concocted and not accurate, although perhaps symbolic. Stuff that gets in there just because it’s also beyond “sensible” boundaries where sensible boundaries have already been severely broken. But you don’t sort that stuff out dismissing anything that is seen as not sensible, when what the person already has experienced isn’t acknowledged and expression of that also is seen as not sensible.

    Another such example is where there’s talk of close knit alliances that are secretive, and then you hear about a Hapsburg Dynasty cult where there’s cloning going on along with a whole array of leaders that can be entangled into that and other fantastic connections just because of their position. That doesn’t mean everything else that’s brought up regarding elitist alliances is false.

    It’s quite common for a “schizophrenic” to think that there’s someone after them, or that there’s some sort of bugging, some sort of surveillance going on; that doesn’t mean that that’s all hoax, conspiracy theory or only psychotic paranoia. Someone having reached such a point as being called “schizophrenic” is already quite surveyed such that anything he does that’s not understood by those around him can be misunderstood, much like CIA surveillance in ways.

    Using such catch phrases as “nonsense” “conspiracy theory” “hoax,” and the others such as “paranoid delusions,” etc. is very much akin to turning off the brain with neuroleptics disabling it from looking into the situation further. And when it has stopped doing that seeing it as a return of “sanity.” A psychotic delusion isn’t just paranoid nonsense, it could be expressing something that’s hidden; and when there’s one – even very loud outspoken – error of presumption or fabrication in what’s shared, that doesn’t make everything else fill-in-the-blank-with-label-and-dismiss. In fact, there’s quite a bit of information one might need to have that’s going to be included with other stuff that’s not quite processed yet or presumed, or fabricated; the same as what’s contained in “psychosis,” could be symbolizing something that needs to be understood, not dismissed.

  • And sorry Richard, but the Bollingers could be “wrong” about how much the numbers are inflated. I looked myself and compared the numbers for my state with last years, and there are 4525 more deaths than last year, although the Covid deaths are listed as 5264; but there might be still a slight inflation because of the hype, although it doesn’t appear as if it’s to the extent the Bollingers claim. But sorry, the Bollingers I don’t see as not having logical reasons to be paranoid and mistrust the FDA or the CDC; given how alternative cures are suppressed, and what they have experienced as healing may not be given a voice, in comparison to what runs the economy. Someone who is “psychotic” may be paranoid that someone is after them, and be easily impressionable by anything (a chase scene in a movie, the news, church talk about demons etc.) but when you listen to them, and how they really feel, and what is going on with them, the feelings that never were given legroom, you understand why they fall back on that, and you learn that listening to them helps, as it would with anyone; and calling them psychotic, delusional, paranoid and all of the rest does as little as the adjectives you use of “hoax” “conspiracy theories,” “nonsense,” and fortunately I don’t remember the other one….

    And simply beyond that, the deaths caused by such things as sugar, alcohol, processed foods, toxicity in the environment, toxicity in foods even when not processed foods, and the amount of stress people have to live in, and how fear is used as mind control; all of that kills more people, and has been killing more people every month than the Pandemic, and none of that is really dealt with in any way in comparison to the illnesses that are caused by what has been and still is killing people more than the pandemic. Stores are still full of food marketed to make people addicted, a sort of drug to avoid any feelings that are less stimulant oriented, stuff that pushes away more subtle arrays of thinking that simply need space as thought rather than stimulant or anything that physical, simple feelings, thought, space, nothing… and I wonder beyond anything Fauci is doing, would due attention really be paid to all of what I just brought up, how much that would help people simply because it strengthens the natural immune system; and even with social distancing and masks, would due attention be given to everything that has been killing people more and that compromises the immune system so that it can’t deal with illness, how much that would have saved more lives on top of the other measures still kept in place. Simply were it stressed rather than the other measures, WITH the other measures still kept in place. And yet the Bollingers do address those things.

    And sorry, but I don’t look at stuff, to get fixated on one statement, and then give the whole site a label. I would be quite gullible and impressionable towards all sorts of stuff would I operate in such a fashion. Something it appears most ads advertising a commodity, whether it’s ideological or material, are designed to accomplish.

    And what is highly inflated beyond conception, is how much measures taken against the covid pandemic are made out to lead to creating a healthy environment, when a whole host of other issues causing more disease, and having caused more disease the whole time, not only kill more people, but compromise the immune system enough that it also allows covid to cause more deaths. And those issues are not even brought out in a reasonable manner, when we are told the issue is preventing deaths.

  • Sorry, in the above comment, where it reads “nor did I say that those promoting alternative methods might dismiss chemotherapy when it could be helpful” it should have read: “nor did I say that those promoting alternative methods don’t dismiss chemotherapy when it could be helpful,” It gets really to be something strident when both sides dismiss each other, leaving anyone trying to make a decision coerced into thinking there’s only one way, and the other wouldn’t work and should be prevented from being considered.

    And Richard I’m glad you survived cancer however you managed it, that’s great, but I think you have to give people the freedom to follow their own instincts about what treatment to follow. Everybody is different, and everybody responds different to various types of healing.

  • I’d appreciate it if I didn’t have to deal with straw man responses, I am already busy enough. I never anywhere said you weren’t a committed proponent of anti-psychiatry or anti-capitalism at all, which you imply I was making out to be otherwise or unaware of; that also really isn’t pertinent to the discussion, nor does it indicate that psychiatry or capitalism don’t have elements that are helpful beyond such labels; what I posted was simple responses regarding how the cancer Industry could be controlled by guilds and pro-profit, and suppress alternative methods; I also never said that chemotherapy wasn’t an appropriate response that would help people who it would help; what I said is what I said, which I shouldn’t have to repeat, and that’s that the information for alternative methods also deserves representation so that people can make their own decisions. That people have gone for alternative treatment and it didn’t work for them I’m sure has happened enough as that people who went for chemotherapy also weren’t helped enough, nor did I say that those promoting alternative methods might dismiss chemotherapy when it could be helpful. THAT should be a person’s own decision which they can make when both sides are represented without discrimination.

    Ameliorating what you invest in as being serious science that’s legitimate and then dismissing other information as pure nonsense and dangerous and that many people have died following such input doesn’t address anything deeper than more adjectives and what happens on both sides when people’ aren’t given enough information to make their own decisions, given instead “adjectives” and other means of persuasion no matter what side it comes from. I think a person, every person, would have the ability to follow their own instincts, their own intelligence, and their own insights and hopefully find what would work for them otherwise.

    I’m quite capable myself of looking through material and deciding what of it I find helpful, and what I find true, I don’t need anyone patronizing me telling me that everything reported in said site is utter nonsense or any of the rest of your dissuasion to even consider there might be truth there that would be helpful, or even something to consider on my own, rather than having been told how to see it beforehand, even if it’s only part of what’s said on the site that I might find helpful, rather than the majority. Or the other way around that most of it is helpful and the truth to make it something to invest in.

    And I really am starting to find it overloading to have to deal having to navigate through responding to insinuations that I’m not aware of what’s serious science, not aware of what kills many people, not aware of what can be trusted and what can’t; simply would I look into something someone else has clearly dismissed. Or that I’m not carefully siphoning through information would I not take part in such dismissal. Or that I’m jumping on a bandwagon that has a political cover, but is serving a reactionary political agenda.

    NONE OF THAT deals at all with the material at hand, only ways to label it. I thought that goes on enough regarding how people are supposed to see things here in a blog that tries to give people an alternative viewpoint on “mental health” or how to see their own responses to life.

    That you believe you have a healthy skepticism of Western medicine and take certain supplements, doesn’t validate your dismissive remarks regarding a site I’m not even supposed to entertain as having any truth to it at all. And I’m really tiring of even having to find words to respond to any of this.

    I believe both sides of the argument are misleading when they start simply dismissing the other side in such a fashion. Same as any person or any situation you might come across that you are supposed to see as a source of evil or the like. It wouldn’t have come your way if there wasn’t something to see there, I think what you are meant to see will repeat itself then, without any loss of potential as if it will go away. That’s how truth works not having such limitations, and it’s wanting to see it that allows it to emerge, not making out that there’s something against it you have to dismiss.

  • Beyond the preponderance of such name calling as Quacks and Conspiracy Theorists, which takes away from the ability to have a balanced discussion, I don’t agree that one can so quickly call something quackery, whether you agree with their overwhelming criticism of chemotherapy or not, they promote a lot of curing agents that are completely natural and non evasive, and wouldn’t compromise the immune system like chemotherapy does. And there are a number of people that were sent home by mainstream medicine to die because there was no cure – same as psychiatry and its story about chemical imbalances and their drugs being the only cure and what must be promoted, and when it doesn’t work there’s no cure – but there are people that changed their lifestyle and/or tried alternative methods, and recovered their health to become cancer free, despite being told there was no cure. That’s worth hearing about, but those stories and that evidence gets regularly shut down by the FDA, and its cronies. Same as one not hearing the stories of those that recovered from the psychiatric diseases demanding psychiatric drugs, when they did it because they got off of their drugs, or never were on them.
    And a lot of what’s shared there that simply nurtures the natural immune system might be good for anyone, especially those who might be targeted, because of stress, for having a psychiatric illness.

    Again, there are people that were told by the medical profession that there was no cure and that they would die, but were instead healed by alternative methods, quite the same as people told by psychiatry that if they didn’t take their meds they couldn’t function, there wouldn’t be any cure, and yet found alternative methods and recovered; that also should be freely shared, but isn’t.

    And such terms as “nonsense” “conspiracy theories,” “hoax” and “quackery” all within the same two sentences, this does NOT point out to me that a person using such language is duly open to discussion about such points. The whole ARENA of stuff that’s called “conspiracy” theories every time it challenges mainstream academic, religious, political or medical doctrine…, if I would start going on about that I would have to fill books. If one disagrees, then you present a different viewpoint, or forward information, but all terms used above are just as easily used by people pumping up what this blog exposes as being misleading and should be exposed rather than labeled as “hoax,” “quackery,” “conspiracy theories,” or “nonsense.”

    Neither do I think, same as with psychiatric treatments, you can simply dismiss that a lot of the “non quackery” cancer cures aren’t pumped up by money, and that more natural cures aren’t dismissed by the FDA, because of guild, wall street, corporate media, and corporate political pressures. Cancer is even bigger money than psychiatry.

  • Yeah, I use thieves oil diluted with olive oil, and I have a reverse osmosis water filter that takes out the fluoride. Fluoride it is said calcifies the pineal gland, and I noticed that would I sit down just to rest, especially when I was working on fiction, my mind would just go into hyper mode and spin images at me like at least two a second, as if it was trying to get me to dream but had to work against something, when I got a fluoride filter this stopped, and I didn’t dream for a month it seemed, there was so much more resonance in my sleep. But that would all be dismissed.

    Which is another thing to bring up thieves oil, because that’s what was used with the big plague hundreds of years ago, and still works as good as any chemical agent, but then no one can have a copyright on it, and it’s biodegradable, and it doesn’t provoke the super germs like anti-biotics and the rest….

    I don’t know what the FDA would say about thieves oil, like what they made up about artemisia recently, not the FDA but some supposed scientific authority said that, although it’s been an effective cure for malaria for hundreds of years, and helps people that modern pharmaceuticals couldn’t, that using it could cause malaria to mutate, this when it’s been used for hundreds of years, still is fine, and there’s ample proof chemical agents provoke such problems and natural ones don’t. They’ve proven now that Artemesia extract helps with Covid, although the herb unextracted doesn’t seem to do that much, but no one hears about this.

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-scientists-test-artemisia-plant-against-coronavirus/a-53944514

    In fact I think that helps with all viral infections….

    Sugar, alcohol, medical treatments, heart disease from a bad diet, diabetes from a bad diet etc. all of that still kills more people than covid daily; so why isn’t that rationally dealt with if they care so much about our health, and would changing all of that (getting people off of sugar and bad processed foods, giving them good natural healing help rather than pharmaceuticals), how much would this help, or would it help more than what they are doing, because it would strengthen the immune system. And that doesn’t push one symptom away to create a whole array of new ones all targeted for new drugs that only get rid of one or a few symptom creating new ones (and addiction). And that’s not even mentioning slowing down the pace of life, getting rid of stress: “In addition, medical research estimates as much as 90 percent of illness and disease is stress-related” from https://nasdonline.org/1445/d001245/stress-management-for-the-health-of-it.html#:~:text=In addition, medical research estimates,been linked to stress factors.

    or spiritual healing that always has been there and isn’t going away either, as little as our spirit or our soul is……

    I didn’t even know that about hand sanitizer which is all over the place, I really just thought that it smelled offensive and made the hairs in my nostrils stand on end, like so many other harsh chemicals.

  • Elan, it’s not just side effects, it’s withdrawal symptoms hiding addiction… both being used for further “diagnosis.” In fact that they even acknowledge such side effects and list various symptoms of what they also list as symptoms of a “disease,” considering that listed, it becomes pretty amazing that people don’t immediately start questioning what’s going on, but then again they feel safe being programmed to see pharmaceuticals as creating stability. Despite everything. And the withdrawal symptoms, if at all acknowledged also then are defined the same as symptoms of the disease….

    And enough of the side effects are worse than the initial diagnosis needing “medications” also, as are the withdrawal symptoms.

    It’s like thinking that having terrified a child to stop expressing their feelings, to stop having their own viewpoint, and thus to be open for indoctrination is how you raise children to be good productive beings. And then give them rewards. All to quake an alarm when they show that they don’t even know what they are thinking anymore (they’re “crazy” “psychotic”), and then suppress any method that might help them see it’s not a disease but an attempt to regain understanding of their own subconscious….

    And the real break with reality is the people thinking they have to wield force to make people programmable, as well as disabling their minds with drugs to stop them from being able to question what’s going on.

    As if truth is something you can only instill if you can coerce people into such beliefs by punishing them when they don’t believe it.

  • The “efficacy” as treatment for people with “severe” symptoms of “schizophrenia” or “bipolar,” that any “anti-psychotic” supposedly is, pretty much isn’t true either. Suppressing symptoms, that aren’t objectively discernible amongst different “clinicians,” that are often politically based or biased, based on societal or cultural norms, don’t take into account that they might be expressing unexplored trauma or insights of any sort that’s not understood by the clinicians, or simply a need to break away beyond behavioral confines to allow for whatever else might be experienced there that could be critical to the development of the personality…
    Even suppressing such symptoms, were it a sign of alleviating a disease, doesn’t pan out in the long run, where there’s more relapsing, more disability, loss of life, side effects, more paranoia against symptoms from society: might actually mean that symptoms can be best understood to be expressing something that can be understood in the long run, and not just “non-reality-based” neurology, a disruption, an annoyance, a danger.
    Nor is the idea that a person is a danger to themselves and others panning out, because the treatment has proven to be more of a danger for the person receiving it and for society, given the epidemic, given the paranoia against what otherwise could be understood, and given the danger towards violence that psychiatric treatment can cause with it’s pharmacological agents: all clearly in correlation to the biological model for mental illness, a model that also clearly causes chemical imbalance, although it alleges it treats one.

    Way back in 2003 the Hunger strikers https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/ very clearly pointed out how mental illness definitions are more based on societal constructs that define poverty, minority status, and war.

    I hadn’t read the other articles yet, about the supposedly new drug, Lumateperone or Caplyta; How a drug 8 people or so have to be on for one of them to get improvement, and then the others most likely will get bad side effects, not to mention withdrawal symptoms would they want to get off of something that’s not “helping” them; when in reality that help (one in how many?) could be highly deceptive, highly fear based against symptoms that could otherwise be understood, given that in the long run what helps causes more relapsing, recycling, disability etc…..

    And then in the article about Lumateperone: “As Lieberman and colleagues confessed in a 2017 paper, there has never been a “randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study” of an antipsychotic in medication-naïve patients. In other words, there is no good scientific record that these drugs are effective, even over the short term, in psychotic patients whose brains have not been changed by prior exposure to antipsychotics.”

    I have read somewhere recently that whatever they identify as being the organic part of the disease turns up in people that haven’t been on medications yet, and those that are. That’s quite amazing. “WE HAVE FOUND A CAUSE WE CAN CALL BIOLOGICAL, but it turns up before and after medication.” They don’t mention that medication clearly caused swelling of the inner cortex, and shrinking of the frontal lobe, with anti-psychotics, but they said it was from the biological disease, before they were confronted with medications causing that problem; they also say schizophrenia comes from too much dopamine, but don’t share that anti-psychotics for “schizophrenia” in the end cause that as well, because the brain starts to produce more; same with anti-depressants causing serotonin depletion in the end.

    People with a higher intelligence are more likely to have “psychotic episodes,” which means people who are going to be able to see past all of the corruption of “evidence”; people who are more creative are more like to have “psychotic episodes,” meaning people who can relate to an “invisible” world that expresses harmony, even thought it might seem “non reality based” because it’s invisible, people who are oppressed are more likely…

    The dismissal of deaths, during the trials and afterwards, is like a war zone to take over a territory compromising the lives of who already live there, making those who live there scared of themselves, and if that doesn’t work make them out to be dangerous dissidents, and try to make everyone else believe it.

    I’ve been “psychotic” and not only does society try to make you paranoid from understanding what the symptoms express, but it doesn’t even acknowledge that there was a reason for the anxiety or distress that lead to it, as if that never happened, no empathy for listening to a personal experience if it challenges their beliefs; as if it’s not expressing anything; beyond that when the subconscious starts creating perspective as “non reality based” as a dream that has meaning, but can’t be videotaped while it’s happening, that’s not acknowledged; and in such an environment where none of that very human experience is given leg room, is welcomed, is acknowledged, one starts becoming uncomfortable with the natural responses seeking expression, and pushes them away, resulting in a myriad of distractions to avoid such feelings, even what causes annoying “symptoms,” stuff that’s searching expression and won’t be pushed away; and then you might be told “don’t do that,” without again any acknowledgment of what cause and effect is – after years of this, and realizing every time I got “psychotic,” I started doing fill-in-the-blank again, at first fluctuating between the realization of it, and then acting it out again; until I finally realized I was pushing something away; but that also isn’t anything one can define in a “sane” way, it’s more OK, I don’t have to do anything, just feel this uncomfortable thing that isn’t going to hook up with society’s fear based demands that tell me survival isn’t being myself lest I find out who I am…….

    And impossible things would always happen, they still do….

  • Thank you for your response. What I was trying to point out a bit is that it’s not just labeling feelings and responses as pathological, but teaching people to discriminate, to hate, and to feel they are being attacked by what simply could be feelings that need to be felt.

    And it’s acculturated.

    Such strange terms as inability to conform to consensual reality deportment, or statistical based norms I have come upon when people try to defend “difficulty” someone is having regarding “symptoms,” and although when I encountered those terms it was in regards medications, that same idea exists when people chose any number of means to disassociate or push those feelings to the side. Having been ingrained with the reflex that it’s pathological, or an attack, or something to get rid of.

    And what I was trying to get at before I took a side turn in the prior paragraph was that when a group of people bond together with such ideas about conformity, and that when everyone acts out a belief in whatever they use as a bonding mechanism, just moving away from that subconsciously, not being able to adapt anymore, that can bring up a feeling of discomfort, that can be labeled as a symptom of a psychiatric illness (and in many ways the system is set up that way) when in reality it’s perspective that would give true insight, albeit cause difficulty with everyone suddenly being appalled that so and so wore a strange outfit to church, or the mall or whatever happens (someone says something they are supposed to think is crazy, be ashamed of, know it’s going to be ridiculed or cause great shock so they shouldn’t etc.)…

    And that’s not just the DSM, that “statistical based norms,” or “consensual reality deportment.” It’s basic fear based patterning in society, as if everything is safe and in order would everyone adapt to set rules, rules which could be completely arbitrary, just to have something to believe in, rather than having any true logic to them.

    But the real part of being part of a community is to not push those feelings to the side, to listen to that voice, because that’s really something EVERYONE has, even when they are acting out a whole fabricated personality, an ego state trying to be something else, they won’t escape anything as involuntary and part of evolution as feelings they want to push to the side.

    I myself have had what I might term “panic attacks,” or just the feeling of extreme anxiety, when I was drinking too much coffee, and that was oh, more than twenty years ago and I should have paid it more heed for sure. Although at that time I liked the way coffee made me feel what I thought was warm, though really it was more buzzed and artificially stimulated. The “panic attacks” were just trying to maybe tell me not to do so much coffee, and so it wasn’t that I needed another drug to fix it. And I of course by that time, having been marginalized and diagnosed, was too insecure to be able to truly navigate through that whole matrix to even know I was pushing feelings to the side using coffee as a means to do so. I actually thought I liked coffee so much I felt defeated that it effected me that way. I was in Europe for four years, before all of this, where every time I went to visit a fellow student they would always offer coffee, and then when I came back to the USA and went to colleges, I always ended up in the cafeteria with a cup and a donut or something. I had also started smoking which also has its effects; but later in life when I had what I would term as extreme disturbing stuff going on I didn’t know how to process, and again caused me to feel a way that I wanted to get rid of those feelings, I ended up sitting on my parents porch the whole night smoking and drinking coffee. That’s thirty years ago. It took me thirty years of going in and out of what could be seen as psychotic episodes (fueled by coffee and cigarettes although I stopped with cigarettes 14 years ago) before I realized that the whole blanket of emotions I was avoiding were OK for me to feel. Whether that’s simply being scared I wouldn’t fit into whatever I had been programmed to believe survival was, or whether that was not seeing there were other ways, or whether that was not being used to how quiet and involuntary the real guidance was. The kind of stuff we all do for what we believe is “survival” thinking we have to do “something” because otherwise everything will fall apart. It took me thirty years to find out what was really going on, and I never was on psychiatric drugs. Just seeing the friends I had already had on such agents go through what they did, and also information from Mind Freedom, taught me early on to avoid that; but I wasn’t aware how I was pushing my own thoughts away, much the same people are taught to believe psychiatric drugs are some magic to get rid of bad feelings or behaviors. And that’s really not just coffee or cigarettes which is what I’ve mentioned so far, that’s all sorts of behaviors and ways of responding, or the desires of just frantically thinking one chance or the next was how I would fit into the system, and then having it sabotaged because I would get “psychotic” again, which really was simply feelings taking on symbolism in “psychotic” scenarios, akin to fiction and what it does to have meaning; because there is something going on there beyond it just being “psychotic.” Since I’ve learned that I was pushing those feelings away that I could just give some leg room, not push to the side, sort of surrender to, and that then there’s no need for the whole “psychosis,” machinery. It was Charlie Goldsmith pointing out how even what we call anxiety has a natural intelligence would we just allow ourselves to feel it rather than pushing it away, and then it’s had its say and can dissolve. And I can’t really describe exactly what it is I learned not to push to the side, it becomes more a realization that there’s a whole other way of responding. Even when I knew that starting to drink coffee again, which I had stopped for months, that it effected me, I would after months of “sobriety” find myself starting to drink 3, 4 or more cups a day, and after a week or so would end up in this state where something else would take over that could be labeled as psychotic. By some miracle I never was forced drugged because that would have been the end of me. I went through on and off coffee like that for four years although by far most of the time I wasn’t “psychotic,” but then I heard something Charlie Goldsmith said, and realized that was something I was pushing to the side that made me reflexively start drinking coffee, that was a conditioned reflex towards whatever it was that I was pushing to the side, and that then I started drinking too much coffee, which could have been anything (whole list of “bad” habits) to disassociate. And I can’t really put it into words other than it’s just something else besides: “Don’t do THAT!,” which then includes everything I start doing when “psychotic.” It’s really weird because I can’t put it into words, maybe it doesn’t need words, it’s just a different way of responding. More of a surrender than thinking I have to do something. I imagine if I had had a different childhood and had parents that were more interested in allowing me the space to express my feelings, my thoughts were they different than theirs, and my insights and experiences, that then I would have been more used to responding in what I call a different way I can’t really describe, but then I wouldn’t have maybe found it for myself. So it isn’t really labeling it as trauma from my youth either.

    Even at a spiritual level there’s a difference between things that are tangible enough that you think you can describe or identify them, and stuff beyond that. When I was having the crisis that got me to start drinking coffee the whole night on my parents porch, I had gotten baited by psychic people that actually used the spiritual energies to point out worldly stuff, and also stuff about past lifetimes that does no one any good unless you let go of it (as if there’s some judging authority in Heaven akin to our legal system punishing people for transgressions in past lives), but the hyped up energy of knowing things you don’t need to and making it into something else than it is, this I associated with drinking too much coffee (because it made me aggressively want to know), and then would along with just being frustrated out of my mind drink coffee the whole night buzz myself up hoping to get some vital information, as if it was some sort of ammunition. Whatever there was for me to know at such a level only came to me after I stopped acting out in such a manner, and then it was still stuff to let go of. After so many years with channels, mediums and psychics, some real spiritual healers came in my life. And incidentally, after seeing the first one, a healer from the Philippines called a psychic surgeon, which he would say is not an accurate term along the lines I just pointed out, after he treated me in a way that this world would say is impossible but with him simply happens, I somehow knew I was given 20 more years in my life, which would be the amount of time that psychiatric drugs might take off of a person’s life, in general, the lessening of life expectancy with anti psychotics. I simply knew that there also was just on this earth, a place for me to go to feel such healing, such “impossible” things rather than thinking that something so beautiful couldn’t exist, and knowing that might have given me a place to let go so that I wasn’t baited into the system by all of their provocations. But the healers and the healing energy work very differently from “psychics,” and such…

    It’s not about something the ego makes you think you need to know

    It’s simply that there is something there beyond that…

    Over the years I’ve seen and talked to quite a few healers, and Jesus has become my friend. Just that, a friend, not an object…..

    It’s difficult having gone the wrong direction, but that’s how we learn, when you go the wrong way, you only learn more why the right way works, and that’s really the only thing that could remain from it….

  • Rose, I notice you’re still using the terminology “panic attack,” which is then used as a “symptom,” needing you know what. What if that was just a normal response to whatever was going on, and if you allowed yourself to just feel that without labeling it, even if you didn’t like it, it could have just been trying to tell you that you could manage your time better than trying to stay up all night, and the quiet would have come from that, but just calling it a panic attack is how you get baited into the system. I think.

    Because it seems that along the way you had a voice trying to tell you this isn’t right, which you mentioned……

    I think you’d be surprised what peace that voice can bring in contrast to…..

    Everything is supposed to be measured in physical terms, but what if that voice comes from another place without such orders of difficulty, even though the response is to think: “no, I need fill-in-the-blank instead?

  • The point I was trying to make is how people that support using violence (whether it’s just or criminal, actually) use the same “evidence” that there is a “lessening” of symptoms of the problem in order to deny that in reality in the end there’s more of it, which you see with any system which supports such ideas. Every “government,” fighting the most wars, having the harshest penal system shows what the result is. The same as the mental health system saying they are creating healing by suppressing symptoms, symptoms that when not truly attended to cause more of the problem.

    And Caroline really!? You actually try to put forth that there’s no rule of law, or even that without the ability to wield the right to punish people who don’t follow set laws there’s no “government?” Which in reality you make out only exists then if those rules are enforced by a system allowed to traumatize others when they don’t follow those “rules.” And when you have a system where people are on mass controlled by fear in such a manner than you have “rules of law?” There are natural laws, by the way. When you are kind to someone it changes their metabolism, how their body responds to stimuli, and that promotes healing… compassion,… empathy; and yet there was never need for any enforcing agent to create such an effect when it evolved as part of the human experience and how the body responds. Is that supposed to not exist then, because it’s better to traumatize people into behaving a certain way. And then there are natural laws, no penal system is enforcing those, and without such “enforcement” water still boils at the same temperature; only if that rule is broken that’s called a miracle, but those happen under completely different rules than believing traumatizing a person to be controlled is effective.

    Jesus talked about a Kingdom of Heaven, I don’t think the rules in that kingdom have any need to punish or control people wielding the right to traumatize them when they don’t obey set array of commands or “rules.” In fact they have nothing to do with that other than to show there’s a different way, a way that works.

    And Caroline it really concerns me, because you mention fears about withdrawal induced manic psychosis, but…
    Endeavors, as much as they have become part of your heart, they might be getting you to go along with all sorts of stuff that, when you are that vulnerable, and trying to deal with even the heartbreak of having thought too well of them or if not them others, because going off of “medications” is going to heighten intelligence to see such things and sharpen the memories, there’s going to be stuff you have to let go of, even though it consequently makes you feel like you are nowhere, and then you are offered these “magic” solutions backed up by what seems like the power to make change, and that will make you “manic.” The real solutions don’t involve the stress or the “magic.”

    And I notice I’ve been trying to explain things, things that are extremely difficult to explain, and which one has to experience, or realize you already have and weren’t cognizant of it.

    So, I found this I shared with a healer, which might make what I was trying to say a little clearer, but I really have to bow out now:

    There’s a term called the Atonement, and as Jesus was explaining that I got a visual image, something akin to rays of energy or light, like a blossom or a fountain, but there’s an incredible ability to sort of accelerate and catch something, which was the first thing that expressed itself about it. But then I understood, it’s like it when someone sees something, something akin to catching someone from running into the street when there are cars rushing by, or before they would fall or anything like that. But with the atonement, it’s that it catches us before we would invest in the wrong thing. Because really, when we believe we need to invest in defenses, we actually invest instead in needing something against something else, and actually are demanding a reason for such a defense, which we are making up out of fear of letting go of what in reality is demanding it (the defense) be justified, and thus causes the problem. You can see that is so many places. The police, the military, all places where the right to traumatize others is given and invested in; and were society not worshiping that kind of mind control people never would invest in using trauma for criminal gain. It wouldn’t occur to desperate people having been discarded by society, and having lost faith in anything free of that, like spirit is meant to be.

  • When you think you need “defenses” you also need whatever you believe you need the defenses for in order to excuse that; and then you believe yourself separate from what you’re defending against. You also believe all of the time and space and physical “reality” that consequently gets put into play has to do with needing defenses, rather than not needing defenses you wouldn’t need an excuse for them. Thus we have the whole supposed impasse, and are told that things don’t go away like that, and it’s crazy to believe you have such ability such that by looking at things differently they change, or it’s arrogant to think you have such ability. Would one truly pay attention, you might see how much stress you cause in your life denying this, and what resentments you put on anyone else not taking part in believing that what doesn’t work needs more people to believe in it, as if then it would be working. And then instead failing to allow yourself to gain such perspective, or assimilate what’s really happening that points out such truths. And thus you have to make yourself separate from it otherwise not needing an excuse for defenses the problem would go away along with the excuse you’re defending, which is the real cause not what consequently happens to show you you could have let go of it, could have responded differently, could have seen things differently. You also then limit what you call the physical to being deprived of the “miracles” that would otherwise happen to solve the problem what they would do non violently. And then there’s even fear against, that, because when a thought system is – even non violently – shown to be in error, people might still have to such a degree invested in it that they perceive a great loss. And can fuss endlessly about this, pointing out a myriad of occurrences they refuse or fail to see aren’t truly caused by anything outside of themselves. And you’re doing that, it’s not anything outside of you you need to defend against. That’s why Jesus tried to teach forgiveness. Because it works, it’s what changes direction to alleviate a cause rather than bury it by the effects is elicits that are blamed on something else.

    The whole mental health system is a good example of this. When “medications” turn off “symptoms” for an interim, and the cause isn’t deal with, that’s called healing, and the whole consequent epidemic that comes from it is blamed on the “disease” rather than the lack of perspective, even when people who aren’t “medicated” in general do better beyond the initial interim when symptoms are suppressed and before there’s the eruption of relapsing, paranoia against normal human responses to difficult or unusual situations, more disability, lose of life expectancy, a plethora of side effects. Thus go “defenses” against a “disease.”

  • I’m not going to dwell on this, and only briefly looked over responses, after bowing out, which I’m still doing: Bowing out.

    Again to point out what’s “marketed” to be a solution, but might be the opposite. Beyond the Nuremberg trials, it’s in many ways the international court which set Germany up for Hitler to take over before that, given how much debt was piled on them [Germany] after WW1, and Hitler could deceive a desperate people and himself. It’s also now the international court, the IMF etc. along with political behavior, that is what is decimating countries where extremism pops up. Not to mention what is happening to the environment, and already happened to indigenous cultures all over the planet that respected the environment. And we’re to believe that’s promoting a working economic system and the consumer oriented society it’s exploitation offers is “happiness,” or the pursuit of it.

    And what I believe is a rule is that when you stop investing in what causes a problem: that violence is a means to an end, and supposedly stops violence: then you get a different society, which every country that has a more compassionate penal system has shown to be the case.

    I also think it’s a rule that you aren’t separate from the actions that happen in your life, or the time and space “around” you, and that it’s a sad misrepresentation of what the human condition is to make out that there are such boundaries. With what’s called psychosis already, which is an emotional projection of issues a person when allowed to can learn to understand and reach in to a part of themselves that deals with how they respond to life, given memories, beliefs, etc; that changes what can’t be seen as physical yet because it is the future, and so is more objective than physical reality. I think thought is the same, and when you stop thinking you need the right to wield violence and that punishing people is a proper mind control method, then you stop making that part of reality. And then time doesn’t have to repeat itself trying to show you that you are investing in the cause and pushing the solution to the side, and in reality judging yourself; judging yourself as if you’re crazy that thought itself would make a difference, even with what happens physically or plays out in time.

    I don’t see thought or the mind as being so weak that it has to invest in violent control tactics, and looking for morality to justify violence gets in the way of peace rather than it creates it, and doesn’t really solve the problem but puts into ideology exactly what gets corrupted into what you say you are trying to prevent. Both sides believing violence is a means to an end. And the side actually respected as an authority having more the means to put an end to it, by not investing in violence as a means to an end, and not putting such ideology out to get corrupted.

    That there’s another way is what Jesus taught me himself, and it works.

  • Caroline: There isn’t a penal system on the planet that doesn’t disregard collateral damage, putting innocent people in jail, or as in the United Stated executing innocent people such as Troy Davis. I don’t think that’s a working system, and what Jesus truly taught is something different, which his parable was part of sharing. And that is a working system. It also deals with the cause rather than perpetuating the philosophy that causes the problem: the idea that violence is necessary to control people, and trauma or deterrent is a valid mind control method. A society that doesn’t breed such ideology won’t have what it’s trying to prevent excusing violence as if it’s a moral tool. That violence is a means to an end is then instead seen to be something to discard both for the “perpetrator” and the “means of defense.”

    Further more, when I share (in another blog, which you responded to Caroline) the fact that perhaps Jesus was homosexual and relates to me free to express it, or that his life would have been different had he something such as that to surrender to, such intimacy, you mention that the “Pope,” a man who perpetuates the erroneous pretentious idea that homosexuals are sinners (but you should love them), that he tells me that Jesus is madly in love with me. Oh. Really!?

    And then Jesus parable about the Good Samaritan gets turned into a discussion promoting the penal system rather than what it’s about, this in a blog about marketing. The Catholic Church – which in contrast to the DSM not anymore saying homosexuals have something wrong with them, still perpetuating such nonsense – and the penal system which arrests someone for walking around non violent but naked are excused and marketed then?

    The truth isn’t something that you can defend with violence, with excuses for punishing those that don’t follow it, because then it’s not truth anymore, it’s mind control. I already stated that. As moral as you think you are being about what you believe is necessary with violence, you can’t be defending the truth, and so you are not dealing with the real situation. You aren’t communicating to humanity, to any other human. You haven’t looked at what’s really going on. You haven’t addressed the causes. And you’re perpetuating – with a double edged sword – what causes the problem. You’re not relating to the person, and you’re not relating to the whole matrix that causes the problem. And you’re perpetuating it.

    And nothing can destroy the truth. Jesus wasn’t crucified, he was resurrected. And I REALLY don’t think he’s going back to saying we need the very institutions that put a death warrant on his teachings. For what? So we can “understand” his parable by warping it out of context?

    And as I said already, investing in the very system that allows people to be arrested, taken to the the asylum, and force treated, isn’t going to change what’s going on, but showing there’s another way yourself: that will. And letting go of what is in collusion with what doesn’t work will show you there’s another way. Saying that your life is in disarray because of that-system, and then promoting the very tools that keep it in place, doesn’t work.

    Trying to control other people using punishment is what fascist systems do, and criminals, and people that are offended that what works is robbing them of the idea that when they try to control another using punishment they are good, and just and better.

    I’m going to bow out of this discussion now and spend time with my “invisible” friend thanking him for being there. Someone who was able to direct me away from what doesn’t work to what does, and have even physical healing take place, although that’s not what it’s about, since that could be anything to show there’s another way.

  • I really don’t think that Jesus parable was about making sure the robbers get punished, in fact it was about the opposite.

    Punishment in reality is nothing more than a means of mind control, and the very reason you have a psychiatrical institution playing game theory with gain and loss, along with perceived punishment or loss when not going along with the program, and thus you have a bunch of people who don’t know what they are doing at all.

    Truth simply speaks for itself, and remains separate from needing such means to make it out to be the truth. You can’t punish someone to see the truth, that’s mind control, the truth speaks for itself, and has to otherwise it isn’t the truth. And if our whole society would be concerned about helping people who have been wounded, rather than getting points for it, or deciding for some reason they are undesirables, we’d have a different society, that understands trauma.

    There’s really no difference in logic for the robber or the people that are supposed to punish the robber, in that they both think that violence is a means to an end, only the robber might sooner find out it doesn’t work, since he or she doesn’t have societal backing for their behavior; and so might sooner question it. And then there’s the whole lack in society that caused the abandonment of people who become robbers, which is economic as well as the simple ideology society has about how you control a populace, which involves justified violence, and wars, and the rest of it: nurtured fear, discrimination,stereotyping and prejudice which then leaves a person unable to see how they might find what truly might otherwise be there for them, including thought.

    Instead of deciding who is supposed to help you, you might find that you don’t need an insurance to pay for the right helper, and you don’t need a
    “church” making you feel you are founded in your process, or any other institution, and that simply being human is enough. Rather than “they” are supposed to do it, so if they don’t everything is in a disarray.

    Or was the person that got hurt supposed to decide that the pharisees should help him, and then punish the robber, rather than seeing there’s something else that helps, which represents a whole other way of thinking?

    And when you show what works, you’re showing what the truth is, to say that needs defense through punishing those that don’t see that really means you’re trying to defend something else, something that isn’t the truth anymore, but an excuse for wanting to control others.

  • You’re balancing on a very thin line when you say the “doctors,” don’t spike someone with blood thinners. There are enough medications that aren’t good for your heart, and then there’s the neglect towards issues like diet, exercise, enough rest, true emotional health, giving someone the strength to feel they can get out of uncomfortable situations rather than “cope” and get sick or fight and get stressed out and sick.

    The present pandemic, which is all over the planet, and the whole political change of scenery; there are a whole list of things that presently kill more people than viruses, yet there’s nothing in comparison done about it. The first month of the pandemic more people died (in developed countries at least) because of the effects of sugar than the whole total so far of the pandemic, or something like that; and then you have the ALSO completely preventable problems in the developing country like food shortages etc..

    And we will never, as far as I know, have herd immunity to sugar, or to starvation.

    It’s more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in ways than it’s truly caring about your health.

  • I’m sorry, this: “We become scared of stuff that would help us, because of how it had been accepted, and the electric shock to our system when the whole arena of memories kicks in can be quite severe.”

    I meant to say we become scared of stuff that would help us, because of how it had NOT been accepted in our environment, whether socially or family or institutional of whatever. Stuff we tried to express and was met with weird discrimination. And it causes a lot of anxiety when those feelings come back, the electricity behind all the memories even. But you can learn to actually feel those feelings and feel safe in your own space, who you are, not how you’re supposed to respond.

    And it’s really hard when you just try to communicate something, and get the strange response from others that don’t want to accept the simplest thing. Caroline, you seem really positive, and it sounds like you wanted to simply share that you had found a place you feel at home at, this to the psychiatrist, but his response was truly bizarre, and truly paranoid and psychotic. And then psychotic becomes a strange word, because those who are labeled “psychotic,” actually really have been dis-inhibited from continuing to fit into a programming that doesn’t really work for them (or work for someone to be true to their humanity), but those labeling them are the ones that really would show the symptoms they are seeing in another. Fundamentalism is the real problem regarding anything that’s not reality based. It just makes no sense to deny what really statistically has lead to healing, the rest is all indoctrination, brainwashing. He’s the one that has a riff with reality, he needs to perhaps be deprogrammed. Getting rewards from the economic system doesn’t mean that your beliefs are reality based. But don’t you compromise the rest of your life trying to say things to him he would discriminate against, how you said you deal with it is great.

    But psychotic becomes a strange word, I don’t see it myself as something that has the properties of how it’s defined by the mental health system. And how they define it shows mostly more signs of what they call an illness than is the case in who they are diagnosing. And so I don’t really like to call them psychotic (the one’s doing the diagnosing) as non reality based as their thinking might be, because psychosis is something more sensitive, and reaches out into someone’s soul; the brainwashing that’s non reality based doesn’t do that, doesn’t have such sensitivity and doesn’t reach into someone’s soul, and it doesn’t give emotional wounds legroom to express themselves, neither does it give alternative insights that are necessary such legroom. It’s all backwards.

  • Heh, there’s a wonderful site https://www.mygoodhabits.com/ and its helped me.
    He would let you join without paying anything, have you no money, or just for $29.95 for three months, or $14.95 for one. That’s American dollars. He has a section called Emotional Healing where he shares a technique, and also has people who have followed the technique or he helps to follow it. It helped me incredibly finding out how I was disassociating from feelings that I never had been allowed to express in my youth, and those feelings were trying to give me guidance. You know, just a different way than the norm. But the discomfort when the feelings would reemerge when I needed them, when everything came into play, in how to deal with this “society,” with how to actually say anything in it (which you have gone into quite fully regarding knowing how to deal with what you describe). It might be like whatever you went to the psychiatrist for just needed a bit more space to NOT fit into society, or what another part of the mind controlled by fear thought was how things should be.

    We become scared of stuff that would help us, because of how it had been accepted, and the electric shock to our system when the whole arena of memories kicks in can be quite severe.

    I really don’t think you’re going to go into another psychosis, you seem too grounded for that, I think you will find that quiet inner voice, and even though it seems like there’s some great loss to stop responding to everything that’s what we’re supposed to believe life is about, it wouldn’t at all be a loss, and the peace there is resonant gentle and soothing instead of it being a loss or that it’s scary.

    I kept on getting “psychotic” when I drank too much coffee, realized that, but then somehow had a switch that I would start with too much coffee again (also because the “psychosis,” was expressing something of what I was trying to push away, and that needed to be expressed). That was when I really needed to just stop disassociating from feelings I had a reflex to push to the side, because they never had been accepted, it was like there was suddenly a blank space. I just hadn’t learned to trust those feelings, to let go like that. And it really is like what Jesus taught, because you just let go to something more gentle. And THAT was what balanced me out, NOT just trying to discipline myself to not drink coffee, because it wasn’t really about that, it was about seeing that there was something else, that I didn’t have to push those thoughts away.

    And so, it could just be that when you allow those feelings, even letting go of thinking you need to respond to the psychiatrist etc. that that’s what it’s about, not whether you need the drugs to not have whatever it’s called because of the withdrawal.

    And it sounds like the psychiatrist might be gaslighting you. There also are pill splitters, would you want to reduce your dose, and he wouldn’t find out. There would be nothing wrong with not telling him, even lying would he ask. It might be much more just a stage of relaxing to get off of the drugs than what you’re scared of. But above everything I would suggest you give yourself the time for some peace of your own, whatever calms you down. Without any guilt. When you get really upset don’t feel like you have to respond to the system at all, they only use that against you anyhow.

    Does this help to think that really the fear of getting off the drugs has to do with how it might bring up feelings you’re used to pushing away, and it’s more about accepting those feelings, to just feel them (whether they are good or bad), and then you can process them, and also let go of them? Everyone has this from their past, whether it’s family or society, that they weren’t allowed to express certain things, and so push those feeling to the side. And it could just be allowing yourself the space to just go into a space where you’re not trying to rationalize, but just not push the involuntary part that feelings move through away, like mindfulness or meditation. But it’s maybe more a conscious way of responding to reflexes at the moment…..

    I’m writing quite hurried right now, and will look back with more “time.” Or at least when I don’t feel so rushed with a number of things going on…..

  • Yes, I think we all think that, why has God done X, Y and Z to us, but maybe that’s the illusion. Maybe we’re more in control, and when we practice what I found in A Course in Miracles to help, that it’s really just shifting to something else that was there the whole time, and we were in control, and that’s how we learn.

    It’s really just a friendship with Jesus, understanding what he went through rather than making an object out of him, which is what I think the Catholic Church does too much, and I don’t think that’s completely fair to him. I can not agree with their stance on homosexuality, for example, or a list of other things in that category. There is a wonderful lady who was, and probably still is, Catholic her whole life. She had miracles start to happen after she visited Fatima, an itching in her fingers that when she touched people miracles would happen. People from all over the world came to see her, she was on Television, and yet the Catholic Church didn’t even acknowledge what was happening or let her give a healing get together in their church.Here is a wonderful blog her friend and facilitator has written, he passed away a few years ago http://leaholof.blogspot.com/ The Catholics left this nasty superstitious denial of her abilities https://www.catholicdoors.com/isit/isit05.htm I think Leaholof has retired now, though.

    I’m just trying to show how much there is of healing, and of stuff that the institutions as they are, and the powers that be, deny. And when a person has been forced to conform to all of that, and they start to wake up finding themselves in no man’s land, the psychiatric system would often sooner find them “psychotic,” then even have interest in finding out what’s truly going on, and what that has to do with an innate beautiful part of being human that’s trying to express itself.

    Psychiatry might say that Jesus had any of a number of things wrong with him. And would he try to express how difficult his life was, because of his nature, because of how he was persecuted, because miracles happened around him and people either denied it or wanted to exploit him mostly; I really don’t think psychiatry would understand hardly any of that. I don’t think he needed anti-depressants for example. And I don’t think he needed to be on dopamine antagonists because he thought he talked to God. And because he could sooth the minds and heal many of the people psychiatry says it has the right to treat, they would further more have problems with him.

  • I’m still puzzling about this, how to have made such a statement and to be clear about it, while changing the whole concept of Jesus. If one believes in reincarnation, which isn’t linear no one reincarnates in a body: there would be no reason to reincarnate were there not a multiplicity going on, was it instead linear. That’s like saying you can build a house without looking for the materials, in this case what gives time meaning, but if one believes in reincarnation then during the time Jesus had his short tragic life, he did see me, although I was a woman then, and there’s still a resonance there transcending the limitations of “THAT” time. That also alleviates Jesus of having to be an institution. He can simply be human.

    And why isn’t this allowed?

    There IS a whole other dimension to what it is to be human, and that’s so innate to what it is to be human that it doesn’t really allow people to be anything else, doesn’t make them one of the assembly of parts that go to make up what’s made out to be necessary to safeguard a territory (physical or mental); you can’t limit yourself to such a territory to begin with, you would never find the parts for the house, the house beyond time, the one that gives you space for life to have meaning.

    Why you have a soul.

    ALL of the non-reality-based stuff going on with “psychosis,” taps into that innate part of being human. When it tries to depict something the mind hasn’t quite grasped, whether it’s memories the conscious mind doesn’t know is effecting it emerging in supposedly non real scenarios trying to make a safe connection to realizing the memory, or the spiritual concepts that come out of transcending such trauma actually showing what’s real about life rather than defending something you could never be, or the imaginative insights that have to come in from the edge of the Universe or what’s called left field, or simply the need to dis-inhibit oneself beyond silly pretentious rules everyone follows just because everyone does (for their ego) rather than they truly make any sense, or instincts trying to emerge giving guidance for life involving everything I’ve already listed… all of that goes on with “psychosis.” There isn’t a time when I got “psychotic,” that something didn’t happen that might be called impossible, or metaphysical, a miracle, or supernatural, exactly because my lack of worldly “reason,” allowed it. Had I been sane it wouldn’t have had the legroom.

    There IS a whole other part of being human, so human that it’s not going to adapt to such limitations as “sanity” says it needs. And what’s really insane is trying to be that, something that can survive in such limitations. Because you’re making yourself out to be something impossible, and you’re not. What’s impossible is that such limitations exist, what’s called impossible: non-reality-based.

    There’s no need to be scared of it, just because if you stop pushing it away it will make sense.

  • Just to summarize this post.

    When a person hasn’t been given the environment to get in touch with their own instincts, their own feelings, their own insights especially when they were supposed to see thing differently, and often were forced to not express themselves or met with derision and chastising along with other methods of traumatizing someone into not expressing themselves; when those feelings come back up, which they are meant to, then it has already become a conditioned reflex to push them away. And the real discomfort from the feelings come from that, not from the feelings themselves. This can be the same way with feelings in general that we don’t like and want to go away. Most of the discomfort could be from not feelings those feelings. Much, and too much of our whole society also is based on pushing those feelings away, the whole economic, consumer oriented and social setup, as well as what’s even called entertainment seems to often mostly be to give means for people to have a way to push those feelings to the side. And then there’s the anger, the depression and the feelings of inadequacy when we don’t have the means to push those feelings, feelings we need to feel, to the side. It could just be the feeling not to have to take sides. A more quite mindset.
    And it’s really quite a simple thing to help a person realize when they are doing this, rather than to strengthen whatever image they are supposed to have of themselves, and what’s running them. Simple anxiety for example, is treated in a way as if one should get rid of it, and yet what happens when you just allow yourself to feel it without responding to it? What if when you allow yourself to process it that it then goes away?
    I think there are a whole array of inner voices that are meant to give guidance that can help us would we just allow ourselves the space to feel stuff we think we need to push to the side. And there’s no loss in not being part of a world that would make us out to be crazy would we not push those insights to the side. There’s lots of stuff that happens, amazing stuff that otherwise wouldn’t be allowed to, would we expect life to be sane.

  • Does what psychiatry says psychosis is have much to do with it? Funny, you know someone that’s actually, I don’t know, learned a language, and can speak it with the natives, or has learned to swim, or has been to a country or a city and knows the layout, the map; it gets awfully strange when those people (the ones that have been psychotic, and namely the ones that have been through it and are over it, understand it) they have to depend on people that haven’t been to the country, that can’t speak the language, that can’t move around in it, that HAVEN’T been psychotic and recovered. You depend on those people to have anything you say be considered valid. That’s pretty strange. Added to this on is talking about something that you can’t just simply go to and map out, speak the language or move around in, because you have to have gone through it, otherwise it remains sort of invisible beyond what the psychiatrists make out of it, and then while really not having the experience to know what’s going on, they call you non-reality-based. And they really can’t know without having been there, and they’d have to really instead listen to those that have, it doesn’t at all work any other way.

    What is a paranoid schizophrenic supposed to be when the person labeling him is paranoid to see it for what allows it to heal, or exist at all to lead towards healing or insight or anything at all that’s worth mentioning (that it’s not a permanent chemical imbalance), and refuses to be realistic about this, and then dowses the person’s response with “medications” (said to be treating a chemical imbalance but scientifically causing one) which prevents them (the “patient”) from having a healthy enough brain to figure it out; thus not only preventing the psychiatrist from knowing what’s on, but the “patient” from figuring it out themselves!?!?!?!?!?

    I’ve had years, or lives trying to figure this out, to let it be and have enough room for it.

    Just my own “stuff.” I had found out that cigarettes, that when I started smoking, I’d end up in an “episode,” something I knew was non violent, but scared other people, and I knew that psychiatric drugs wouldn’t help. So I stopped smoking, but was quite shocked to see that I got more unsettled in an “episode,” and years went by, lots of social betrayal and attempts to exploit me while I wasn’t “psychotic,” which pretty much explained the “psychosis,” or the need to be in a place where people wouldn’t find me fit for their society. And then I noticed that I would have started drinking a copious amount of coffee when “psychotic,” and knew this, and stopped. But there was this weird switch going on that after awhile I’d just start drinking coffee again, and have an “episode.” I mean I had kept myself from drinking coffee, and would be fine, and then….. But then I ran into the teachings of how much we take on habits to disassociate from feelings, and in my case I found they were really just the feelings, the instincts, the insights, the instincts I had as a child but was never allowed to express, and when they would re-emerge needing leg room after awhile, the discomfort, the feelings of being oppressed would get me to start drinking too much coffee, too much to be “sane” anyhow. And it worked actually.

    It’s a language, when “psychotic” it’s your unconscious speaking to you however it can, symbolism, scenarios possibly called non reality based rather than fictional, which might still be what it is, which is a human need, given the amount of it in novels, myths etc., or however it expresses itself, because sometimes because of the dis-inhibition quite otherwise impossible things happen, even metaphysical or miraculous things. And so even when I could have been called non reality based in my thinking, this was beyond objective reality, because it involved my reflexes, and thus the future. The future not being something that’s EVER objective in such a fashion, and only exists in context to your reflexes. And so there are emotional wounds, and trauma, but the psychosis is REALLY just trying to show you that there is a language that can help you understand that, understand your reflexes and change your life, and so it’s not really so much about trauma, as about the miracle that it is to be human, and that we all can transcend, and even forgive trauma, that there’s a language teaching us that. Who we really are.

    I wouldn’t ever turn towards coffee like I did, I didn’t even know why when I had. But the simple knowledge – Charlie Goldsmith in his mygoodhabits.com site helped with this – that I had feelings I was pushing to the side, this helped me understand why I had such a reaction, so instead I give legroom to those feelings. They really before that were just sort of blank space. And it’s amazing how much control we really have over our lives when we simply switch to something a little bit more subtle, a little more detached, show a little non attachment, and just allow things, even when at first it felt uncomfortable.

    It’s really insane, there’s supposed to be all of this “guilt,” for behaving a certain way that doesn’t fit in with social norms. The most ridiculous rules, and the rub is that everyone (well not “everyone” just the mob) they believe that adhering to those rules gives them pride, and without that they think they’d fall apart, and so they wouldn’t even know what they’re thinking anymore, they become so programmed. Run around outside naked, and feel the air against your skin, and the sun, and you’re a maniac that gets arrested and drugged up, because of it. Oh, but the whole arsenal of social control tactics, all the way to torture methods and how to blow up all human life on the planet at least 20 times with nuclear weapons to make sure the enemy is dead, this is all highly funded. EXTREMELY frustrating. And then there’s all of this privilege to be violent, to have a whole policing system when you obey the rules, as if that works to create a society. All of it was so confusing to me, that a completely “non reality based” voice had to turn me away from who knows what, like someone so confused they don’t end up being hit by a car for want of not seeing what they are doing, or where they are going. That I would believe ANY of it makes any sense, or is a means to any end at all.

    An African Violet had just blossomed, the color magenta that’s actually not in our color spectrum https://www.biotele.com/magenta.html our mind fills it in. Whether it was the color of the violet or the blossoming, but the MOMENT I saw it I heard a voice: “SHUTUP we’re praying,” and it was so apparent, like a spring that had been let lose, that I argued with it. But it did get me to change course, and even a physical healing took place, something I’m still getting to know, because you can feel the difference of letting yourself get riled up or letting go, of actually forgiving, not buying into guilt. But I argued with the voice, thought it was Jesus, told him that he might have stayed around a bit longer, since he said that the flowers that are thrown on the compost heap to be burned are more splendid than Solomon’s robe, and yet we are worth more than that. Making such a remark when one sees a beautiful flower. He had friends in the Mediterranean he could have gone to visit rather than sticking around with the end we all know was the result. And who’s to say he doesn’t agree with me, since that’s PAST history. And he’s been with me at a level of intimacy I think that gave him another place to surrender to, but that’s all psychotic. Crazy. How dare I say such things. A voice popping out of nowhere because I saw a flower.

    I don’t know, psychosis, fiction, imagination. Why do we have fiction? I had gone to a miracle crusade, years ago, with someone who took me there that I didn’t know was so paranoid. Since has become a social worker, anyone surprised? And during the “crusade” I found myself, my mind placed me that is, in a movie where there’s love making going on at the end of the scene. How does this happen that after seeing a movie you end up inside of it, which I think is the idea the whole time upon watching it, a place to give subjunctive place, to gain perspective, to go beyond your limitations, physical or conceptual. AT first it was just someone that ends up as a ghost later on getting the other person not to be so serious. Something I’ve found out since, being that with creativity you have to, you can’t keep at something without letting it go, and then it speaks for itself. Going through my day I would find whatever I’d been working on take a new turn. Working on a musical composition a light would go on in my head, just like the voice, and I’d hear the music take a new turn, but that was when I’d stopped trying to do anything consciously. I might be making good in the kitchen. So here I am, with what I feel is Jesus trying to make love to me, and I didn’t know you can’t just tell another person that, and made the mistake of telling someone who then called up my father trying to convince him I was going crazy because I was talking about making love to Jesus. Mind you this same person (now a social worker) bragged about coming down to the living room of where she was staying in college, and being greeted with a whole assortment of guys who she says she had all made dates with, not caring the amount, but no, one can’t talk about anything as decent as Jesus making love to you.

    Years pass, I had to get away from that person and her “spiritualist,” channeling friends, and turned to a few true healers, got to know that better, studied A Course in Miracles a lot at times, and then actually had the new miracle, thanks to his voice, and found that no that wasn’t crazy at all from the beginning of back then, that perhaps Jesus really DID need a place he could go and simply surrender and completely be himself, and that was part of the miracle. REALLY! Because I had had a whole shift, physical healing, but then had to actually look at how it happened, that it was me taking a turn away from responding to frustration, and then, the “physical problem” slightly coming back, I had to surrender to everything that I thought would happen if I wasn’t “vigilant” in warding away what would happen if I wasn’t, and the physical problem went away, because I wasn’t trying to defend myself from it. Instead surrendering, and even then finding I could give Jesus a place to surrender to….

    And I wonder if this is crazy enough, to talk about being put inside a movie (what actually is imagination or fiction, or why do we have movies, and what’s acting), to hear a voice (and no I didn’t read it in the bible or even A Course in Miracles) and have it have meaning rather than it’s a hallucination, and at that a really earthy voice from someone that is supposed to be a holy icon, and physical healing, and everything beyond formalism (I’m male by the way, not that I was during the time Jesus was on the earth, I understand, and he had seen me then too)….

    But this changes everything, when the space to give legroom to emotions turns into a whole other kind of healing, something that’s been suppressed when it doesn’t follow social constructs of control, when it doesn’t feed those controlling the economic system, when it doesn’t give authority to those worshiping what they can control of the physical and try to indoctrinate people to be fearful of anything else a bit less tangible to their controls. Giving a “psychotic” person space to know what their mind is trying to express might create such havoc for “society,” that it’s basic tenets might have to be questioned, is why whoever has been through it, which is the only way one can find out by listening to them, that it’s made out to be something else by those that can lock you up and force drug you!?

    It might just be “crazy” like the rest of life, was anyone paying any attention at all to it. They might notice it’s not quite following their rules.

    JESUS!

    CHRIST!

    Thank God it’s not following their rules.

  • Here’s an article, listing how many Native Americans are killed by the police, and most of the cases involve “wellness checks”

    https://inthesetimes.com/features/native_american_police_killings_native_lives_matter.html

    And sadly, there’s absolutely no talk about how treatment with psychiatric drugs cause, after an initial period where “symptoms” are suppressed, more relapsing, more disability, loss of life expectancy, and than I think one can add paranoia against someone expressing that such treatment doesn’t work, with then the erroneous idea as if more of it is needed and should be forced, or we’re all in danger.

  • This is of course a very serious question. Perhaps the most important thing is that when a person has been given the right to feel suicidal, and been allowed to spill out their life: to talk about why, to experience another person actually listening, that does the most to make them feel as if there’s reception somewhere for their feelings, rather than nowhere. And then they can feel how they feel without believing they need to commit suicide to escape from those feelings, or do other destructive things to themselves. I don’t know what asking a person how they would commit suicide would amount to exactly, whether that would actually help them spill their guts, unless that actually involves allowing the person to express how desperate, and/or abandoned they feel, or hopeless; and that then they find a place that their feelings are accepted; but that depends on what’s behind the question, not the question in itself. If a person would go so far as to have had such thoughts, and then share them is the other person asking them how they would do such a thing capable of actually having empathy with what kind of desperation, what kind of hopelessness, what kind of abandonment would lead a person to start entertaining such strategies. And would the person asking the question be able to give someone the space to feel they could freely explore and express what happened in their life, or what’s happening in their life, or what they are scared might happen in their life to lead to it? Would they even be able to fathom there are very legitimate reasons that when a person is allowed and given the legroom to express them makes them feel less abandoned? They very tone of someone’s voice asking such questions could lead to the person answering feelings there’s reception or not, even thought the person asking the questions thinks he or she can hide their thoughts. And I also wonder whether that’s in reality the best addendum to; “are you suicidal.” It’s sounds like it could be rather clinical objective and cold. And might add up to more cold responses, such as lies about drugs that are made out to help according to information that’s highly tainted if not outright lies. Or promoting answers that the person who has the feelings of desperation already has experienced as not working, rather than truly being empathetic beyond thinking one knows the answers.

    I have to add another personal story here, that’s quite bizarre. When I as having difficulty in my life, and I think this was before I ever was diagnosed (thirty years or so ago), I just was having difficulty, and quite despondent. It’s a long story. It actually involves psychic senses, there was something (someone) I knew would come into my life, out of nowhere, and it didn’t end up being what I thought it would be; and then I got involved with the whole plethora of nonsense behind the techniques of being spiritual (or not spiritual by trying to exploit it) that I had been taught. I was obsessed with trying to find out why this person came into my life, particularly what it had to do with past lifetimes. And before that a very accurate psychic about petty future events no one needs to know could supply such information, but he had become too exploitative of me so I had been forced to get away from him; but there I was still thinking I needed to know things I didn’t, and would sit on my parents porch smoking and drinking coffee the whole night, quite angry determined to know this secret information. And there was all sorts of other social betrayal going on, especially with organizations making themselves out to be spiritual. Anyhow. Finding myself doing stuff out of frustration that I knew wasn’t good for me (no I didn’t really think that smoking the whole night and drinking coffee was good for me) I wondered where to turn, and I thought about calling a suicide line, actually telling them I WASN’T suicidal, but that I was concerned because I was doing things I knew were unhealthy. NOT a good place to turn. They talked to me quite a bit, even listening to the whole scenario of stuff that could be called psychotic, but of course with no ability to relate to what it represented in reality; no real ability to relate to what was going on with me as emotional truth that was seeking development so I could understand what it represented, how maybe fears had gotten tangled up with my reflexes and perceptions, and if understood could change my reflexes and my future, or maybe even the understanding of “psychosis,” in general. Then they invited me to come to talk go them, and I mistakenly did that. One of the most bizarre scenes in my life. In ending up upstairs somewhere, in what seemed to be some kind of tower, and trying to talk to someone the phone kept ringing connecting people up to the wrong number, which I wondered whether it was some metaphysical warning going on (how much stuff that didn’t belong but that rang in their mind concerning indoctrination would they not see was a mis-connection while they were judging me?), and of course the whole conversation added up to nothing much, or not more than they were pretty much telling me they were concerned about me and wanted me committed; but when I told them I had a sort of therapist, they called her, and she told then I was OK, that I lived with my parents, that I had support or so, that it wasn’t necessary to commit me. That was just a therapist my mother had been paying for me to talk to about my dreams, mostly. But they dropped it. Basically my life could have ended there, had I been committed, as vulnerable as I was, just because I thought they might actually have helpful input.

    AGAIN a whole bizarre thing involving negating what’s really going on, even if it’s physical involving substance one is imbibing. There wasn’t ONE mention of whether drinking coffee the whole night might be causing me to get paranoid. Instead, there was effort in seeing whether committing me would help, where I would have been inflicted with more substances messing up my mind, and end up not being able to chose myself regarding would I imbibe or not anymore, NOR to be given any true information so informed consent was going on, but actually did I KNOW the truth about psychiatric drugs, would I express that, that would be seen as a danger like in any fascist regime or fundamentalism like in religion when someone speaks against their ideology.

    I somehow got out of there, and actually called back there, and a really bizarre woman, to whom I had mentioned I wrote poetry, with a voice sounding like it was stuck on some pre-fabricated synthetic intelligence channel, with appropriate sing-song inflection and intonation to sound concerned about effect or pretense rather than truth – sort of like the butterflies, flowers, happy people smiling at each other lilting happily through life you see in drug commercials, or for the latest new and improved flavor in junk foods – she actually tried to convince me that the “medications” would help me write poetry, and that she was “concerned’ about that.

    Just like the Messiah of Handel on Lithium, or anti-psychotics they “know” would be an improvement. Why would that be?

    The local asylum out fit here, called “Pine Rest,” of all things, which makes me wonder whether that’s more appropriate for a mortuary, since it talks of “rest,” as in put to death and bury that annoying part of yourself society doesn’t give you easy points for giving legroom, they actually had on television paintings of Van Gogh, and music of Beethoven, and said they both had mental illnesses, and their lives would have been improved with “medications.”

    And they didn’t even mention that they must have built a time machine to accomplish and prove that.

    I didn’t even call them up and ask them about their time machine.…

    “How is your time machine doing? I want to meet Beethoven and Van Gogh!”

    Miracles happen…