I’ve just seen two Hamlets, and Ophelia gets the same treatment, which was shown clearly in Branagh’s version. As to whether she would be put in concentrated ground. Evidently there’s some ectoplasm emitting out of the remains of those committing suicide, and this would expose how the Heaven the church teaches is something they can’t reach themselves, and people who had every right to go beyond such limitations, and the actual nerve, they are turned into some magic of what isn’t them anymore, and wasn’t to begin with.
I don’t think the feelings of not wanting to be contained by such evil as most of such “religions” or “society,” or the rest, I don’t think that’s a disease. It’s just that those making it out to be a disease, ARE NOT going to be the ones pointing out what’s beyond, and here on this planet, and what really healing is.
I went to see a healer, they say is impossible. A Filipino. And I knew there were the amount of years added to my life, as psychiatric drugs normally take off. And then even, I found out about love. I had the same opening into the fourth dimension, where there’s no distance, only perhaps what might be called themes, like give fiction body. My fingers did exactly what the Filipino healers do, only no blood. When I woke up out of this dimension, it was the same as having eaten a strawberry. Because to me its like being in love, and you like being dizzy. The sanctuary that is, a place to rest. But now, love really is what is given to those that need healing. It’s really not some romantic indulgence.
There are places to go, not having the limitations of the SAME PEOPLE calling suicidal thoughts a disease. They exist. They do. Really.
Thatās quite an argument, because actually, would things be worse, could that be possible, without Facebook [!?]. I can imagine that, easily. Actually.
And then history in school, whether itās taught in a way that helps children understand their parents. Mostly the history is too far back to be applicable. And then even that is highly in-accurate. At least, in the US it was: EACH year in school, some class that went on about the same censored stuff, and mostly was for social gossiping, and other game theory bondage.
By the way, I wouldnāt take United Kingdom scores too seriously. Since youāve written: āCountries scoring the lowest were the United Kingdomā etc. They [the UK] are a bit into not giving full honesty, given their sense of humor, and then other things like:
It sounds like you know what you are pressing little keys into patterns called words, each character having a special sound that goes into your meanings. VERY BEAUTIFUL diaphanous weeps!
What I was saying was the video you shared helped me to understand what specificity and sensitivity meant, but then I lost context, but the other video cleared that up. Thank you for directing me to somewhere I could enlighten myself to how such things are done.
It’s quite bizarre to even look into this, because of schizophrenia, or dopamine hyperactivity is the symptoms of a disease, isn’t that most likely caused by the medications preventing the dopamine from being able to attach to the synapse, because something else has put itself there, and thus the brain starts making more dopamine. So, it’s actually AGAIN the diagnosis, and the treatment, that causes this symptoms they are testing for, which you pointed out when found isn’t even specific to the “disease.”
Then it does become, just drug up all these people, and you have the “disease.” WELL! That was a Freudian, I first typed dosease, rather than disease. I corrected it though (!?)
Thanks. Thanks so much for sharing something I might enlighten myself, I couldn’t follow the terminology at all. Thanks for that! But this video actually explained it that I could understand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtYDyGGeQyo the one you shared works for someone already familiar with the terms, but hadn’t grasped them yet, perhaps. With the video you shared, the graph also seems to be incomplete, as it has no number showing at what level you get a positive test result as it moves to the right, in fact without numbers you wouldn’t know whether it was moving into the negative as it goes right, whether zero started somewhere in the middle, or who knows what. Anyhow, I couldn’t follow that at that point, but the other video helped.
It does become something, when we are talking about sigma differences, and at what point someone is decided to have the disease (I imagine how many “symptoms”), but we aren’t talking about a real diagnosis. We are talking about when the system, or the psychiatrist, would decide they have the disease, at which point statistically, they are likely not to recover, if they get treated, or convinced by the system, that they need such.
That DOES become a bit bizarre, that when you completely have no positive diagnosis of the disease, you have more recovery! What does that say about false positives!?
In response to a discussion about Freud:
Iām rereading Jeffrey Moussaieff Masonās book, the chapter Freud and Dora, and I have to break in, just to recall all the nonsense Freud comes up with, and I hadnāt read the book for years, apparently disassociated from it, itās THAT bad:
When Dora has been propositioned by a man whose wife is having an affair with her father, and the man who propositioned her also propositioned a servant, Freud decides that Dora actually is in love with the man who propositioned her, that sheās actually jealous of the servant he propositioned, that she (Dora) is also in love with the manās wife (they read some material regarding sexuality together, and Freud jump to this, and a hoard of other nonsense). Poor Dora was then forced to have ātherapyā with this man who basically felt free to come up with a load of nonsense he thinks is insightful, but has no bearing on whatās happening other than this is called psychotherapy, and Freud made it up, contrary to reality. You can read all of this in his writings. Iām sure I skipped some of the perversions of his āanalyses,ā because itās overwhelming, but you can read that chapter yourself, in the book. All with excellent footnotes and references. Thereās reference to a governess who is said to have been nice to Dora to get to her father, all put forth again by Freud, again thinking he has some insight, as long as thereās some repressed who knows what going on.
Doraās father then didnāt believe she had been propositioned. One at this point can only start to realize the kind of environment poor Dora was in, and Freud ads to it by deciding or supposing who knows what comes from having masturbated as a child, and then says that putting cocaine on a special spot on the nose, will relieve the gastric illness that comes from such (masturbating), all inspired by his friend Fliess. This Fliess would operate on women, because of their āorganic damageā from masturbating, and Freud had handed over an earlier patient to Fliess, an Emma Eckstein, and she almost bled to death from it. Freudās reply was that she was just a hysterical bleeder. Freud decides that Doraās problems come from not admitting sheās in love with the man who propositioned her, whose wife was having an affair with her father, the man who wouldnāt believe she was propositioned, so sent her to Freud for ātherapy.ā Freud then comes to the ridiculous conclusion that Dora couldnāt love the man that propositioned her as a 14-year-old, because she never admitted her love for her father, and this is because of the always-ready-for-whatever-the-result-supposed-was act of masturbating. ALL OF THAT is what this poor Dora has to deal with, child of an industrialist, and having to deal with this āsociety,ā sheās forced to have to endure.
When she cuts off this ātherapyā (which is good considering that she could have ended up like Emma Eckstein), she is tossed around in different publications by various people in Freudās cult. Made out to be some sort of hostile jealous person bent on revenge (see above, that when she didnāt like being assaulted as a 14 years old, which her father wouldnāt believe, and she wouldnāt entertain such nonsense as that he actually loved the man but couldnāt feel it because her masturbating as a child has repressed her love for her father: if youāre lost by now, masturbating as a child according to the founder of psychotherapy Freud prevented her from loving her father, which is why she couldnāt know she loved the man that her father wouldnāt believe propositioned her)ā¦ When all of THAT doesnāt help Dora, Freud thinks he failed because he didnāt see that she was ātransferringā her vengeance towards the man who propositioned her to him. So it wasnāt that he was trying to load her with fabricated mental constructs having nothing to do with what was going on, her āinabilityā to believe such nonsense was because she was ātransferringā her anger towards the man who propositioned her towards him.
beokay, I’m trying to look up those terms you use, but could you explain what these terms refer to:
A 1-sigma difference
a sensitivity of 0.5
a specificity of 0.84
a 1/100 prevalance
And how this then ends up: “A test based on that with a sensitivity of 0.5 would have a specificity of 0.84 and ā assuming a 1/100 prevalance ā would produce over 30 false positives per true positive and label 16% [!] of the population as schizophrenic.”
Because I believe you, and wish I could follow it, how such a result comes about.
Even though we are talking about a mental construct that something is a disease, not even about a real disease. A condition from an environment, a normal response to an abnormal situation not acknowledged, these aren’t diseases. Poverty isn’t a disease. Living through a war isn’t a disease. etc. Having to deal with a brainwashed society isn’t even a disease….. to throw “disease” out the window, because where is it then?
The disease of saying people are “diseased.” Sort of like school yard bullying, stereotyping, discrimination and eugenics.
(sorry, I was posting from a cell phone, using speak recognition, wanted to add something, but it seems everything is so geared towards making people trigger happy, that I have no idea why it posted, when I simply was trying to add something, so here is the addition) Somehow, in contrast to whoever that was (beatrice), I donāt think that simply calling it for what it is when someone resorts to such ridiculous nonsense as penis envy. That wasting your time sorting through why he made up this bologna and then having filled yourself with references that go nowhere but youāre supposed to know because this is what goes on in such discussions, somehow I donāt think that not doing that, not taking part in such tediousness is tedious. Since the word was used. Whatās obviously tedious is having to re-articulate indoctrinated snippets, hauled out from that place of no return that they were trying to escape from. Like Dickens when he referred to the circumlocution office, and how anyone actually wanting to do something ends up being buried in minutes, assaults with bushels of addendums, references, footnotes, and if they still somehow break through to the light of day have their insights deemed to be unwarranted for such high honors as actually being listened to. Well then you have to actually sort through all of that and deny that it leads nowhere. Freudās penis envy is an assault on women. Itās a denial of the sexual abuse that was rampant in that society, and how such trauma affects people. It DENIES trauma. It is as ridiculous as saying that people with brown skin when they suffer the kind of abuse and oppression that has been meted upon them by a society full of white men… It is as ridiculous as saying that when they show signs of trauma because of it they have sparkle envy. That they actually would want to have white skin that sparkles in the sunlight or something that ridiculous. Same as abused women want a penis, or that because men are the oppressors, you can deny that saying women want their special part. And any beating around the bush being truly tedious and excusing that nonsense this is abuse in itself and playing game theory with oh yes no Iām a therapist look I can dress up this baloney and make it seem like something because I fill up with so much a distraciont of scientism that people are going to believe it and go around nodding their head filled with such. That the whole world went walking around thinking they knew something about mental illness because there’s these ridiculous mental constructions such as penis envy or an Oedipus complex. Might as well add sparkle envy or Penguin desires (wanting the right to wear black suites like the rest of “them”). What’s worse is when trauma is acknowledged, that this turns into a whole variety of therapies that in exposing this trauma, get a person stuck in being a victim. Worst maybe being, us holy therapist can teach you how to understand your trauma, it goes this way, to be followed by more indoctrination. People have a innate ability to deal with trauma, and that comes out when you just listen to them, not think you know how to teach them how to deal with it. That ISN’T listening.
No, I don’t think Jung and Freud pioneered modern therapy, when it’s helpful. That was more people like Miles Horton or R.D. Laing. Or any good person who studied psychology or social work and ditched all of these mental constructs to just listen to another person. I think that the arts, yoga, such wonderful techniques as pandiculation to get the body to release held on tension, nature that all of that and more is healing, and therapeutic. To tick off a bunch of books and say this one says how you have to teach the body to let go of this, and this one says it’s because you can’t verbalize what’s going on, when the healing might be completely beyond verbalizing anything, and the body won’t let go of it unless you stop trying to make it let go.
Somehow, in contrast to whoever that was, I don’t think that simply calling it for what it is when someone resorts to such ridiculous nonsense as penis envy. That wasting your time sorting through why he made up this bologna and then having filled yourself with references that go nowhere but you’re supposed to know because this is what goes on in such discussions, somehow I don’t think that not doing that that is tedious or who knows what else. What’s obviously tedious is that somebody has to actually be articulate and see that to dismiss all that nonsense is totally valid. Well then you have to actually sort through all of that and see that it leads nowhereFreud’s penis envy is an assault on women. It’s a denial of the sexual abuse that was rampant in that society, and how such trauma affects people. It is as ridiculous as saying that people with brown skin when they suffer the kind of abuse and oppression that has been meeting upon them by a society full of white men. It is as ridiculous as saying that when they show signs of trauma because of it they have sparkle envy. That they actually would want to have white skin that sparkles in the sunlight or something that ridiculous. And any beating around the bush being truly tedious and excusing that nonsense this is abuse in itself and playing game theory with oh yes no I’m a therapist look I can cross this baloney and make it seem like something because I fill up with so much distract of scientism that people are going to believe it and go around nodding their head filled with such.
Birdsong, I’m sorry you have to deal with such insensitivity. That’ somebody who is supposed to be helping others, knew they were being sexually molested or had been. But that being not something one was allowed to talk about made up this ridiculous mental construction called penis envy. You know just that he could keep on maintaining this image that he knew what was going on and was helping, no he wasn’t. And then when somebody simply calls it for what it is and doesn’t hold back being politically correct then suddenly they are making sweeping gestures. I thought Freud had already cornered that market, wow. There are some very excellent books written by Jeffrey Moussaieff Mason which detail very clearly the stuff again the psychological and psychiatric institute don’t want people to know. In his books you’ll find all of the information about what you’re not told in how abusive both Freud or Jung could be. Jung who was the someone who believed women belonged in the kitchen and there was something wrong with the primitive races genetically. Of course someone who is apologetic about such behavior because for example they think that instead of just listening to somebody who has suffered trauma, instead of seeing that this is a society that doesn’t allow that such expression, instead of just listening and giving the natural knowledge that already is inside that person’s space to do what it naturally does. Instead that they started making epitaphs on how they are going to teach somebody to deal with trauma. Well, there you have the whole….Because you know animals don’t hold on to that stuff. Well isn’t this jumping right from the frying pan into the fire. The society doesn’t allow you to express it so let us teach you how not to listen to yourself because since animals can just do it and we don’t seem to it’s because we haven’t been taught to. Wow.
If I understand what I’ve just read [twice]:
To create the marketing of brain scans, they bypass true science by
1) not reporting methodology or how many people were dismissed from the data
2) having very small sized groups where there is more chance of finding correlation
3) use of enough analyses pipelines that by changing the criteria or analyses parameters one eventually finds a correlation, but this is based on adjusting the parameters until one of the pipelines find a correlation.
4) and then there is the tautology of there is this concordance with people who we find in remission, but with those who aren’t there isn’t such a concordance, which works with anything. This person did that, and they are in remission, everyone else lacks that. Added to this, those not treated with the biological ideology, they are more likely to have chronic problems, so in reality the correlation is with those where there is no correlation with their method.
How many people have had this kind of stuff thrown at them?
When a clinician, even in a setting that they aren’t there to give a diagnosis, that any behavior can suddenly be misinterpreted to be a symptom.
I could go over a whole list of them myself. And it’s quite baffling. In fact a voice told me, while taking a parks and recreation yoga class from a person who also was a social worker, to not even ask her questions, or anything, to just go to class and leave, and I knew there was no concern, and didn’t heed the voice. And then I found out that ANYTHING could be misinterpreted, was she paranoid or suspicious, literally ANYTHING, and then she also lied added to that:
1) If I shared stuff that I shared with all sorts of people (I have nice CDs of my own compositions I play on the piano, which I had given the yoga teacher in the prior class, who said it was good music, other people love it, one lady gave it to her sister who wouldn’t give it back being that it was the only thing that got her to go to sleep at night), and suddenly I was giving her “special” gifts and psychotically in love with her (I’m gay, I was in no way in love with her, I found her quite repulsive pretentious and coy, but she had a commitment to yoga I at that time admired, which I no longer do).
2) When she thought something was going on with me, and it wasn’t, and she had asked friends of hers to walk to her car, I supposedly was stalking, harassing and trying to intimidate her. All I did was after class have to settle down, I also rode a bike, and so had to put warm clothes over my sweat suite, and also her classes weren’t really good yoga, too fast, and so I had to come down from that as well. I never did anything but get ready, and then leave, which usually was after she had left already completely, car and all, I never had any intention of having anything to do with her after class, had no interest in her other than taking yoga, I never made any approach towards her while she was going to her car, etc. But that she had suspicions about something not going on, and she had friends walking her to her car, this could be seen as if I was stalking her etc. It was completely not true. In fact ANYBODY she had suspicions about enough to ask others to walk her to her car could suddenly find themselves accused of such nonsense. I remember also that she said anyone could ask questions after the first class. So, I had mentioned how much yoga helped me, and then offered one of my CDs, she wanted to play that in class, but I didn’t know if I could concentrate with my own music playing, and I might have ideas of how to change something. That REALLY was all, other than I noticed that she slumped a bit, and her posture wasn’t good, so myself in contrast straightened up. Nothing more than that. She then made out of this that I was two inches higher than I am, about 30 pounds heavier, and that I was looming over her trying to intimidate her. Absolute nonsense.
3) Sometimes, after class while I was getting ready, she might be talking to someone, and I’m not deaf, so I would hear what she was saying. It also was sometimes interesting, because she was so different from my friends, and it was like reading a book, and taking in a characterization. She instead thought I was listening intently to what she was saying, as if I don’t know what.
4) I once had a brief discussion regarding vaccines. She had been complaining about the pain in her arm, because working as a social worker in a hospital she is required to have them, and I simply asked: “do they really help as much as they say they do?” I think beyond any discussion about vaccines, that this doesn’t mean you are safe of the rest of the world is safe from you, you STILL have to take care of your health, eat healthy, rest, not get stressed out etc. I was really calm, but she got snippy, and then when I didn’t show up for the next class, she said I was resentful because of a disagreement. Which AGAIN she was trying to make out I had some fixation I didn’t have. It also wasn’t true at all that that had anything to do with me showing up for class or not, I had actually gone to the bus with my bike (there’s a rack on the bus for bikes, so you can travel with them) but the rack was full, and I had really bad eczema and riding that far on my bike rather than the couple of blocks to the bus, this would cause sweating, and it was cold weather, I had to wear gloves, and that with the eczema would be like torture, as if someone is tearing your skin off, and so I didn’t ride my bike to the class. It was simply because the bus rack was full. No other reason. But then if I showed up for class, she felt free to make a multitude of incorrect diagnosis, and if I didn’t the same. Same sort of corrupt tautology.
I could go on for quite awhile, for pages, with a whole bizarre relay of pin the tail on the donkey, how she would see something, decide this was a sign of something, and make erroneous interpretations. But I won’t right now. She also lied, or she was completely non reality based herself. She said that she said things she hadn’t, supposedly she told me to back off when I tried to share something, and she never had. She said that I stepped on her yoga mat, which I’m quite sure I never did. When I had a bad back and couldn’t do maybe 10% of the poses, and instead did the child pose (which she announced to the whole class, noticing it, that that is what you do when you can’t do a pose) or rested my head on my hand. THIS became that I supposedly spent 80% of the class with my head on my hand looking at her. And then there were more lies I won’t get into, it’s so sordid. The one thing I should point out is that at one point she actually maintained this following statement: “I know, he doesn’t hear voices, he sees things that aren’t there, it’s non reality based.” I had heard a very clear voice telling me to avoid her completely, and she proved there was complete reason for that. And this really proves she doesn’t know what she’s going on about. It only sounds good to make reference to specific supposed symptoms, and that this is there, but the other not, and make it sound like it’s whatever it’s supposed to be, but…. In fact, for the first time I realize how ridiculous such a statement is (she had gotten a restraining order, and she said this to a judge), because she didn’t, doesn’t, and wouldn’t know me well enough to make ANY of such a statement. It was totally pretentious. She didn’t know me, she doesn’t know me, she actually used what clearly pointed out her paranoia as something that wasn’t going on (I do hear voices, and they are accurate, not a sign of an illness)…..
And what happened is that I was trying to communicate something that was impelling enough that it came in out of “nowhere,” but I didn’t see the context yet. So that was labeled non reality based, same as anything people are unfamiliar with, it supposedly can’t exist. I did have a bit of symbolic stuff going on, but that has resolved itself, actually. In fact the next day I knew I had been off, but then it was too late
It’s a whole other world to get into what they saw as “non-reality based.” But I can simplify it that it was about investments, and she was investing in nothing but paranoia, and trying to validate something was going on that wasn’t. And I actually had picked that up because of a spirit friend of mine, and her youth. I talked with Mozart’s mother Anna a lot 30 plus years ago through a medium. In fact, during one pose in one of those classes, I saw Anna in my mind, but she was this rather wilted looking girl. In her youth. As if she was held back from just being there. It had been difficult talking to her through a medium, and I had asked her why there were the difficulties (did this in my mind, not through a medium) and she broke down and said she always wanted a family. Her father then had lost everything BECAUSE of investments. He wasn’t there anymore in her youth. But all this PARANOIA of this ridiculously suspicious social worker, that’s the kind of stuff that takes away a person’s ability to simply respond naturally. And then even, when I saw Anna, as an uncomfortable girl in that class, and teared up a bit, ONE OF that “social worker’s” friends saw me, and said: “and he starts crying.” At that time, I didn’t know what that was, not till afterwards I found that it was THAT friend that had suggested I was in her personal space (really just because I was interested in yoga, which she was supposed to be teaching), and she ACTUALLY thought that I was crying because I was in love with this person. Literally ANYTHING I did could be misinterpreted. And as soon as you say something they don’t understand, that they can list as psychotic, then all their “interpretations” are excused. It was completely the opposite also. It had nothing to do with it other than I was picking up what that kind of paranoia does to someone, the paranoia I didn’t know was going on, already. I was disassociating from it. What I thought, actually was that this paranoid social worker had been that father (if anything, I realized later she was the mother that made her daughter that uncomfortable, until Leopold came along), and picking stuff up from the place of no time didn’t make sense to whoever I tried to communicate that to. Investments are investments, whether bad financially are bad regarding paranoia that something is going on that isn’t. EVEN when corrupt people make money off of the bubble that later bursts and leaves many others in poverty, or that anyone gets a whole salary from what put other vulnerable people in an impossible position, where they are disenfranchised, misrepresented and discriminated against. This then was seen as crazy, what I tried to communicate regarding investment, and considering how I was disassociating from truly paranoia discriminatory stuff going on it wasn’t understood, although it DID get me out of that situations. But years pass and I did run into this father, according to me, the father Anna had lost, and investing in something else brought a miracle into my life. I had a tooth infection, basically because of the dental clinic doing work that wasn’t necessary, because there were students there, causing distress, causing me to grind at night, causing the infection in the end (and they didn’t tell me I was grinding at the beginning or ever that I needed a bit, or that I had traumatized the ligatures connecting the tooth to the jaw, they wanted to give me a root canal which I know better than to go for) and things got so bad I won’t mention it, but I didn’t give up on my miracle, and then there was a dentist, who I noticed wasn’t making the right kind of investments in treatment beyond standard approaches, but when I mentioned spiritual healing, he softened, and I recognized him as the “reincarnation” of that father, and I was showing what a good investment is. The simple acknowledging such a possibility. And I knew the tooth would heal, and after that I found a healer, who within a few months got it to be so much better that it wasn’t bothering me beyond being being annoying, in fact I had to laugh noticing I could do things I hadn’t been able to before, and two years later there is no infection (although it HAD been there for like FIVE years). Now, you can talk about investments, you can actually say there’s no such thing as reincarnation, or those people weren’t who I thought, but still the symbolism remains.
And when one is dealing with reflexes towards life, what determines the future, so strongly that you can’t pin it down at all (can’t be “reality” based it depends on potential), it’s not inaccurate to say what they thought was dangerous psychotic (I actually had to deal with a person from parks and recreation saying to a group of people: “she says he could become violent” as if this was some serious concern, when given the whole PLETHORA of misinterpretations and paranoia, and lies, SHE is the one showing signs of that, no one else), I wasn’t a dangerous psychotic at all, I was picking up stuff from the place of no time, from a logic beyond linear time, a logic that envelops another potential to life not devoid or miracles, and that might be more objective than what they call reality based.
Regardless of all of that, which I’ve just shortly tried to explain, that I wouldn’t feel anyone needs to believe or not, she was COMPLETELY wrong. I NEVER was in love with her. I didn’t really do anything that was harassing, intimidating or stalking at all, I certainly am not some dangerous psychotic that could become violent; but as soon as something happened that THEY dismiss as “crazy” all those misinterpretations aren’t even questioned anymore. Same as the plethora of pipelines and changing of parameters that could connect someone picking their nose with a sign of a serious psychiatric disease, that MUST BE biological in origin. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7852253/
This is so disturbing that I want to say I can’t believe it although so many of us here at this site know this kind of stuff is going on. And yet it’s extremely disturbing and shocking, as many times as we hear about it. How is this possible that a whole institution staffed with nurses and other workers who see this kind of stuff going on daily for years doesn’t end up having its behavior reported from the beginning!? They keep on working there and it goes on and on and on. On every level from the parents who didn’t care to know that the child simply gave away his skateboard to the school counselor that reports who knows what when it’s not going on to the whole school itself hiring that counselor not even checking to see what the result is to the whole institution incarcerating a person for stuff that’s not going on to everybody working in the institution to the government allowing this to go on. And now I notice the government gets $359 million dollars or whatever amount it was up there that they get, what about the people that had to endure this torture for years. And is there any difference now? The amount of people I’ve seen get stuck in the system and have their life disabled at so many levels that this is going on I don’t know where to start. Whether it’s they’ve been made to believe something is going on that is at the level of children are told about Santa Claus or the Easter bunny. And or that they need to have this treatment for the rest of their life when the treatment is causing the subsequent problems that are blamed on Santa Claus or the Easter bunny. Or whether they end up on some controlled substance called a medication and can’t get off of it even when they know it’s causing problems and just give up there not really being any help. Or even at the other end of it people actually believing this is necessary, this abusive dehumanizing treatment that we can read about here again where it is baffling to think this could be going on and no one questions it. Is this just cuz humanity thinks that to excuse how things go in society to get the rewards they get from the game theory denying this kind of abuse, that everyone is going around behaving in a way that in order to justify their supposed sanity anything that’s labeled as crazy isn’t even questioned or looked at to see what’s really going on? That goes along with all of the mind control the brainwashing the indoctrination in society they actually have to blind themselves to: this kind of behavior towards people who are labeled as crazy for whatever reason. And how many levels is the simply denial of what’s really going on excused: from this kind of horrendous abuse to somebody being told by their doctor that an antidepressant might help them without all of the data being included that would tell the person that might not be a very good idea at all given how addictive it is and the bleak amount of actual help that those controlled substances give others when actual scientific accurate data is shared. The poor guy that’s been through this deserves everything he’s been given for just daring to survive and daring to go on with his life and daring to find what healing actually is. And allowing life and the universe to do that despite….
And Charlie Rose has E. Fuller Torrey on his show rather than this story, so many others and the scientific truth?
By the way, regarding this “aside:” “(Matt Damon ALSO has done a gay role, but as far as we know isnāt, and I remember some remark stereotyping a character he did i donāt even remember in which movie and stating THAT character was narcissistic)” I don’t even know whether it was a role Mr. Damon played, or another character, but in one interview, regarding someone that’s “mentally” ill he actually went on a whole “delineation” regarding how such people display narcissism. This is a HOLLYWOOD actor maintaining an image talking about…..
And he was actually serious about this. I could go on about this. And it isn’t that I haven’t encountered him and a few others showing the same……..
I have several times signed petitions about this. They do the most….. you know when someone is on ritalin, and start doing repeated things, and are put on anti-depressants because that’s seen as a sign of depression, then are seen as bipolar because of that….
But torture monkeys for how long and get no results, and also promote a logic that’s…..
I’m at a loss for words….
Giving people chemical imbalances to say you’re treating it, and try to make out that what turns out to be one (an imbalance) comes from the treatment, till that has to be straightened out (shrinking of the frontal cortex, the brains stem swelling, dopamine deficiency because the brain stops making as much when their dopamine antagonism)….
And this is genetic? How?
Dehumanize people and animals as an excuse to say you’re trying to reinstate their humanity looking for something that doesn’t turn up time and time again!?
Sorry, last night I was tired. I neglected mentioning your simple courage in sticking with the truth. I have had similar experiences when out of absolute good will I have wanted to promote what clearly given research, given scientific truths, given statistics and given free will and informed consent should be exactly what would pave a way towards healing and insight, but then you encounter these indoctrinated road blocks and in your case intimidation, harassment and malicious threats. Can you imagine someone being force treated in an asylum being accosted in such a way would they simply express the simple truth, and that regarding how with violent force they are being treated, or rather being mistreated? What is the difference between this and a fascist system?
There are still people around in your country who remember what it was like for East block countries under the Communist regime. And yet when psychiatry acts in the same fashion it seems as if hardly anyone dares to speak out. What does this say about Western culture? Maybe if you point out parallels people might raise their heads, but who knows how one can say anything about this beyond trusting the Universe so one can enjoy life beyond all of the traps set.
What is clear is that you have had a harrowing time simply stating stuff that to anyone with a clear mind would be the simple truth. And there are so many things like that. Clearly too many people think that sanity is disabling their mind from being articulate enough to fathom the truth beyond indoctrination and the game theory of social adaptation and its brainwashing, that a normal functioning brain is some sort of dire loss. And thus the use of psychiatric drugs or the dismissal of the whole arena of understanding, insight, perspective and true healing that happens when other approaches are allowed.
Dear dear Beata, I’m listening to your talk, but it’s not true that they found out that people who died from suicide had less serotonin, that’s just some or a few of them, others had more serotonin, others had normal amounts, as was with those that didn’t die from suicide. Antidepressants in themselves don’t increase serotonin, they do for the first couple weeks or so, and then the brain stops making as much so then they actually have less serotonin. I notice that you mentioned this regarding there’s a decrease in receptors for serotonin, but it never was found originally the there was a lack of it.
And I’m sorry, but I don’t understand, if you are going to do a video regarding anti-depressants, state numerous times how they interfere with normal brain functions, explain this regarding how the serotonin remains in the synapse with serotonin re-uptake inhibition, I don’t see how this can be reconciled with that unblocking normal brain function. You state clearly that after the receiving cell has taken as much as it wants, some of it is returned to the cell it came from, but with re-uptake inhibition that’s blocked and the serotonin stays in the synapse and so remains at large. So normal brain function is blocked. That causes the brain to decreases the amount of receptors (and I think what you didn’t mention is that it also decreases the amount of serotonin in the end because consequently the brain stops making as much, as well as the amount of receptors is decreased). But you say that when people can’t understand their emotions having normal brain functions blocked, and then say anti-depressant can be a life saver by unblocking them. I don’t know whether that’s a mistake in translation, but it’s is highly contradictory.
Some people can’t deal with an articulate mind. If they are so brainwashed that the mind expressing dissent causes them discomfort, they are happy disabling it. It’s against nature to constantly say sadness is a disease. As if there’s no cause for sadness, the emotion, to exist, as if there’s no intuitive intelligence being expressed there. As if giving room to feel the sadness is dangerous. What does this say about a society that doesn’t give people the space to express such a natural emotion? What does this say about a society when a natural normal emotion gets so blocked up, so repressed that a person feels there’s no place to go with it anymore? Instead of finding an environment that’s empathic giving them an outlet, they feel abandoned. It could just be that trying to push sadness away is the real discomfort. When I was at a junior college people used to drive me crazy. I would be sitting with a group of people, and I would be thinking about something that made me sad, and I instinctively know that when you just feel that that it would go away. I actually would THINK about the emotion that yes it feels that way, but if you just feel it it goes away. But suddenly I would be accosted with people asking me what was wrong, as if there was some terrible tragedy going on, and I was supposed to get hysterical. My father did that a few times also, and it was quite disruptive. In how often would such people with their amplified need to help you by encouraging you to make a drama out of it, only be making things much worse? There are so many other ways to deal with any emotion as well. If you feel a certain way, your mind can have answers, but those voices or thoughts giving that answer are often so quiet people don’t listen. As if the tension of thinking you’re doing something makes it substantive, when that could be highly deceiving.
I think it’s a really good talk, it’s just I found that one point contradictory, and it remains difficult to put into words why someone would feel helped by anti-depressants, it is maybe better just to say it helps some people, although there’s no clear explanation how that works. that it blocks normal brain functions one can clearly explain, you see. But that’s contradictory to how it’s sold.
This is quite something. I had never heard of this book, which was a NEW YORK TIMES NUMBER ONE best seller!?
It just goes to show what an issue, what goes into something being “compelling.”
I had mentioned this before, wasn’t going to go back to it, but with THIS turning up!
How people can be so compelled to find out what’s going on with “schizophrenia” that they look towards anything THIS misleading.
TWO big time Hollywood actors: Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp both have made a movie about “mental illness.” Johnny Depp also starred as a homosexual, and Brad Pitt wanted to, as a part in a movie.
I didn’t know these people, but then I had for a couple of years had past lifetime feelings that I had been Vaslav Nijinsky. This got around, because I talked about it, and BOTH of those actors could frequent my city (I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan) where there never are, that I EVER have seen paparazzi.
And they BOTH without EVER having talked to me about it, started referring to me by that name. Clearly only from gossip or small talk.
Brad Pitt was hanging out at a coffee house I frequented, like multiple times a week. He was taking a math course at a local college, because of his interest in Architecture, and others from his class were there as well. It was kind of funny, because he can’t sit still, and he would often get something wrong in calculations, ask another to look at his work, and you’d see something akin to someone looking at what he did as if they are changing someone’s diapers, or this concerned look as when you’re trying to calm someone down. This millionaire that can hire tutors. Bouncing around making an object of himself getting college students who could afford none of that to help him.
I was intrigued by him, and he clearly started having feelings for me, and I could feel it. I also was having such. And I was so out of it and insecure at that time. Then I got into one of these periods where you’re more not there, and would more just be taking in what’s going on than even thinking about it. Comes from trauma, the mental health system, not being given a voice, not knowing who you are. He had this group of people that I later referred to as his Humpty Dumpy Band, and one of them walked into the coffee house, and they gave each other high fives (which had become customary). Mr. Pitt was sitting behind me, one chair over, and the other came and sat on the other side of that table, while I was on a higher chair, the height of a bar stool. I was looking at a Schumann score, which I remember because I later asked to used his pen, or pencil to write Hemiola where this is a Hemiola in the music. I didn’t want to scrounge around in my backpack looking for a writing utensil. They had gone through their high fives. Mr. Pitt being such a store, the other started going on about wanting a bigger apartment with an extra room, but Pitt was trying to discourage him. He then, it seems for all I know, thought he was cute referring to his CD player as being and E drive, since you only have those on computers. (the D drive is usually the CD-drive but the E drive something else, back then) Maybe I got that wrong (was he referring to the grade he would get?), but he seemed to be entertaining acting like a “schizophrenia,” because I was there behind him. CDs aren’t E drives, that’s on computers, but to confuse them is cute “schizo” stuff, and I a real one was right there behind him!? I don’t know, it was pretentious to me. I really made me laugh, if that’s what he was trying to portray, which I don’ really know. Maybe I got that wrong. At one point the other said: “Are you accusing me of dating too many bar maids?” Which might have had something to do with the extra room. THEN, there was a moment of silence, and then we got to hear: “She’s STILL mad at me…..” Another pause. and we hear THAT again: “She’s STILL mad at me,” as who she was was elevated to that we all are supposed to know who he’s getting together with, because it’s all in the stuff you have to pass by at the store to actually pay the cashier. The tabloids. No mention of who she was, so I have to mention that at that time it was reported that he was dating Jennifer Aniston. This was just when or before Fight Club came out. Not that I’ve seen it. He doesn’t mention HER name, but then says: “Maybe, she’s mad at me because she KNOWS I want to have sex with Vaslav Nijinsky.”
WOW! Let’s get Vaslav Nijinsky, whose life was torn apart by sexual exploitation involved with THIS! By an actor. No, I didn’t get involved with him. I WAS thinking about it. When I came out of such a vulnerable state, where I couldn’t respond to what was going on, I got pretty angry. I could just SEE myself having to deal with all of that. Namely given the media and how they tear anyone apart in such a “venue” as his environment. THAT MUCH I knew, that I was vulnerable. THAT made me quite angry afterwards, such insensitivity. Beyond what the media might do would they get their hands on such, he’s supposed to be an actor, and have insight into what’s going on with others, after having portrayed a “mentally ill” person in the movie 12 monkeys.
AFTER he did 12 monkeys.
It doesn’t end there. He got married to Aniston. And it STILL bothered me such uncouth behavior. Also because he feels free to say such remarks, it NEVER has been something he’s talked about in interviews, to make himself that vulnerable that he has such homosexual feelings. Instead he has, and had such an image that’s marketable because he WASN’T open, and so far HASN’T been. That he would SIMPLY with SUCH BILLING state that he HIMSELF has homosexual feelings, he’s wanted to make love to a guy, or simply mention love itself, rather than sex. Would he state that he has sexual feelings for other guys, HIMSELF. I can’t see but that quite a NUMBER of guys who don’t know what to think about themselves would possibly be prevented from committing suicide. SIMPLY because someone with such billing dared to make themselves vulnerable.
That REALLY bothered me. Still was bothering me years later. I did a search online for Brad Pitt is gay, and the ONLY place that turned up regarding such was in gaypornblog. I actually posted about his behavior, and then: 1) I got TWO nasty phone call messages. Someone that sounded like Jennifer Aniston left a message: “hello..HELLO……(all in this rather out their tone, and not negative in projection, but then we get) YOU PRICK!” I can’t say that was her, but I wouldn’t know who else would call me like that, haven’t had any calls like that since at all, from anyone. Rather peculiar timing if it wasn’t. And there was another message with profanity in it, which I thought was just some repressed person, but after hearing what he hauled out with his family, on a flight when he was drunk, and how he couldn’t go a day without alcohol or marijuana, or something else (even when married), with such a result. Stuff we only know because his NEXT x-wife wanted to anonymously see the police report after the incident regarding a divorce, and it got out when she didn’t want it to, which then is blamed on her. I can’t say that wasn’t him, nor that it was. Couldn’t think it was, till after this report that wasn’t supposed to get out. And then that blog lost ALL of their posts, suddenly. Given the caliber of that blog that could have easily been a payoff rather than some computer glitz. Again, I can’t say I know one way or the other. If it’s non related and chance, it fits quite well that one would think it’s something else. We do all know that Brad Pitt and George Clooney found it funny to hire gay escorts from a site, and send them to each other’s shoots on set. That was all over the news some years ago, and then that site got closed down. What else could people have found out regarding who was hiring such, beyond this “fun” of those two!? Brad Pitt also thought it was worth telling people that George had put, which I now read were TWO stickers on his car. Although I remember Mr. Pitt as saying it was one: I’m gay and I vote,” and “Small Penis on board.” Everyone is honking at him, and he thinks it’s funny says Matt Damon thinking it’s because he’s Brad Pitt (Matt Damon ALSO has done a gay role, but as far as we know isn’t, and I remember some remark stereotyping a character he did i don’t even remember in which movie and stating THAT character was narcissistic)….
And Johnny Depp who portrayed someone on this whole fantasy, who “magically” comes to when taking a neuroleptic. Quite non reality based, as those drugs go. I think Don Juan de Marcos would first have to as addicted to whatever Johnny has been on on both sides of the counter and beyond to be “stabilized” which would be because of withdrawal symptoms. And this whole affair with HIS x-wife, as if with everything he was on, he could remember what he’d done. You would need Hollywood and the media to back that vacancy up. Johnny Depp also referred to me as “Nijinsky,” without ever even starting a conversation asking me about it, himself. Numerous time, in different places. When he was not together with the mother of his children anymore, and before his relationship with his not yet x- wife was in the media, I was waiting at a bus stop. And he came along, stumbling like a drunk, and I thought: “oh, here it comes…..” I DID NOT want to have to deal with a drunk person, and their idea of social interaction. I had ENOUGH going on at that time, and told him to drop dead several times. he THEN actually grabbed my arm, as if he was doing something gentlemanly, and said in a tone I can only describe as childish, although I wouldn’t want to insult a child about it: “No, I want to torment you.” I was supposed to think this was cute, part of his image, his food for the multitudes. Fortunately, after I spouted some more at him, he left. STILL stumbling from intoxication, or rather wobbling along. I wonder whether he even could remember what he’d done. I so had enough of it, told him he’d grabbed my arm, and that I’d call the police. That anyone, going through what I already had, and then this “Nijinsky” connection, would have to deal with him thinking I’m some playground for this game of him thinking something he calls “tormenting” is cute. And the whole what I might call “Peter Pan” image media game, although I wouldn’t want to insult J M Barrie using his character for such reference. I have to add that I had read somewhere that he would wear even a band-aide his daughter had given him, and would describe her behavior as loving to “torment” daddy. Before that, before he had children, I saw him in a bar so loaded that he was all over the place, jumping at impulses while he wouldn’t remember any of it. And I’m sorry, but I don’t think Amber Heard has lied at all. She was holding back from any of what has come out to be in the media, she thought he would come around. And she held back from even naming him, only in an op-ed stating how she had become an object as a woman who spoke out about domestic violence. Because she was harassed, after divorcing him. Got death threats, had to get a new phone every week or something, was black-listed. That’s how women are treated in Hollywood. When Lynn Collins was in X-men and the movie didn’t do well, as the female lead, she was ditched by Hollywood, although the male lead did fine. And recently Tar with this Femme Fatal character again, while there are NUMEROUS male conductors who have on record done exactly what no female conductor even could do, since none of them have held such a position. And it really has nothing to do with classical music the weird banter supposedly involving it, the end is quite anti-asian. It’s just convenient to use a woman as such a character, because of what sells, and then Cate Blanchet jumps for it. What I think is that Amber Heard had to deal with a guy so full of controlled substances on both sides of the counter, that when reality kicked in regarding what he actually would do when his short term memory was turned off by the controlled substances, and he wouldn’t nor couldn’t remember behavior that otherwise might have been nothing but a dream while asleep in his bed, a dream that would just be a dream, not behavior aggressively grating against his image, and provoking such guilt he wouldn’t be able to deal with remembering it. Feelings he doesn’t know how to deal with, that Hollywood isn’t helping with, that the media isn’t helping with, that his psychiatrist and the drugging doesn’t help with, that the mafia he gets his drugs from doesn’t help with, that the alcohol and cigarettes don’t help with, nor the other legal substances. That’s what I think. And what’s sad is that if he really wanted to offer food for the multitudes, would he actually realize what the substance abuse lead to, and the psychiatric drugs, and the image games and addictions, and saw what the result was, and acknowledged it, then he’d truly be making change. That’s what I think, would I have an opinion of what really happened. Same as Brad Pitt would he actually state openly about his homosexual feelings, despite image marketing….
As commodities go, and then we have the mental health system.
I’ve posted about this stuff, but then asked Steve to remove the posts. But then reading about this book, a best seller that Oprah and Obama found one of their best reads, that supposedly is an amazing scientific piece of detective work. And what I’ve been through regarding, I thought OK. I’m not going to hold this back anymore.
YES it’s a very compelling issue. So compelling and people want such an answer, want to know what’s going on, and want so much to be heroes that it doesn’t matter to what extent they get it quite wrong, and end up being EXTREMELY insensitive without knowing it…..
THANKS, registered for this site, I needed that!
It’s like worthless to try to take some of this stuff seriously, except it’s so tragic how it affects others.
“Immaterial thought” what is that supposed to be? It’s amazing how certain “scientists” come up with the idea that physical matter (including the brain with this) precluded existence. “Somehow” all the building blocks of atomic reality were just floating around bouncing around with each other till TADA they came together enough in stars planet and interacting there that our bodies and “THE BRAIN” was formed. And if anything goes wrong with “thought” it’s because of the brain. One can go on about this to such a degree that there’s no rest, but when someone takes a break they might find some peace, is this then “immaterial thought” to put two and two together and try something different?
Real science has different ideas about it. Even something as crude as the obsession with “black holes” and “the big bang” points out matter came from somewhere and wasn’t just floating around by chance till said physical object was formed, although that there is any purpose or reason behind it can’t be entertained. I won’t even go into it, the science of the connection between “immaterial thought” and physical reality. God Forbid. Apparently it’s crazy enough to say take a break from your obsession regarding THE BRAIN as needing to be the object. As object go that aren’t allowed to speak for themselves, since evidence of what you’re doing to THE BRAIN the whole time is dismissed for what?
When anyone says that “mental illness” is real, and thus it “MUST BE” because of “THE BRAIN,” and then upon “treating” the brain have caused the very thing they say they were treating, which is a chemical imbalance, this also correlated with a spike in the problem (despite the excuse being that we have to lie about where the chemical imbalance comes from so people take their meds), and less recovery, more relapsing, more disability, loss of life expectancy, paranoia against normal responses to trauma that could otherwise be understood, normal responses to challenges in cognition, normal responses to environmental problems all of this is pushed to the side because it has to be “THE BRAIN”….. And you have to lie about this chemical imbalance being treated, or people won’t take their meds, and what’s already listed won’t follow, to point out how much of a problem this is with THE BRAIN, but deny the cause…..
And then we hear that the brain is a mysterious thing, we don’t really know how it works (all to excuse everything that this process has shown to do to it, and that it disable and damage it), and “we are making headway.” Or talk of compelling evidence.
What does “immaterial thought” have to do with this? There’s clear cause and effect that one isn’t supposed see, but instead believe in what?
Anyone not disrupting the brain is entertaining “immaterial thought” and…..
Or you can indulge in this amazing AMAZING smorgasbord:
Evolving Brains, Emerging Gods: Early Humans and the Origins of Religion Hardcover ā September 5, 2017
by E. Fuller Torrey (Author)
“Based on an idea originally proposed by Charles Darwin, Torrey marshals evidence that the emergence of gods was an incidental consequence of several evolutionary factors. Using data ranging from ancient skulls and artifacts to brain imaging, primatology, and child development studies, this book traces how new cognitive abilities gave rise to new behaviors. For instance, autobiographical memory, the ability to project ourselves backward and forward in time, gave Homo sapiens a competitive advantage. However, it also led to comprehension of mortality, spurring belief in an alternative to death. Torrey details the neurobiological sequence that explains why the gods appeared when they did, connecting archaeological findings including clothing, art, farming, and urbanization to cognitive developments. This book does not dismiss belief but rather presents religious belief as an inevitable outcome of brain evolution. Providing clear and accessible explanations of evolutionary neuroscience, Evolving Brains, Emerging Gods will shed new light on the mechanics of our deepest mysteries.
Animals by the way, without this “ability” to “project” themselves backwards and forwards in time, let alone conjure up “gods” when there is a Tsunami coming, they somehow know it and get out of the area. they actually can predict natural disasters quite dependably. They also have been tested to show signs that they know when their “owners” are on the way home, and have all sorts of other amazing abilities….
How does this work with “immaterial thought?”
For some reason editing comments is turned off, which before was an interim when work was being done on this site.
I wanted to add in my prior comment that it seems a bit cruel to categorize these vulnerable people with psychiatric diagnosis, and then go about seeing whether they “recover,” from it. It’s like going to a war zone where there’s lack of basic necessities, put who is missing what in different categories, not attend to what they need, and then decide who doesn’t die from the lack of it as having “recovered” from said disease.
Sorry, but find it hard to see people treating a whole conglomeration of extremely vulnerable people, people who already statistically have been lied to regarding the cause of what’s labeled as a disease, not really inform them of what they needed to know before they ever ended up on the other side of the discussion with said “mental health” clinician, and then evaluate how they are doing. I find it hard to file this as “science.”
Do we get to vote on the recovery rate of psychiatrists, possibly having realized that the bulk of their education is grounded in an ideology that doesn’t pan out: their “treatments” cause chemical imbalance rather than treat it?
And what are the levels of recovery? And what are the symptoms? If a person has seen said ad on TV, or talked to a counselor or social worker, and has been told they should be on meds, is the psychiatrist going to even actually tell them the truth regarding the medications: how addictive they are, how they disable natural brain functions, how they correlate statistically with less recovery and more relapsing, loss of life expectancy, and of course phobia against symptoms that are suppressed rather than an attempt is made or even allowed to understand them!?
And what are the symptoms?
1) They think the chemical imbalance theory is a necessary fairy tail akin to Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny and does no harm despite the statistics in its correlation with less recovery, loss of life, and more relapsing.
2) They get floridly philosophical, disregarding the grounded science that shows the dangers of psychiatric drugs, will haul out “evidence” of a whole array of “clients” they feel are helped, deny that said clients aren’t even allowed to express it when the “method” isn’t helping, as they would be seen as non compliant; and then also angrily accuse anyone pointing out the naked statistics and science of not helping, while denying that alternative methods not allowed have been shown to be more effective.
3) Lack the ability to question whether they are helping, become aggressive and show signs of depression, manic depression, bipolar (when they are in charge they get manic, when it’s not working depressed), schizophrenic (no ability to see true perspective regarding the reality of cause and effect with their treatment) when their method fails, or “clients” show signs of dissent and possible look towards ways of disabling their own brain from the stress of having to actually use it.
I’m trying to be funny, but this is tragic. There are multiple stories of families who find their loved one imprisoned by the system, and they can’t do anything to get the system to stop destroying their loved ones lives, and then their loved one dies, clearly affected by the mental health system emotionally or filled with such toxic medications that the treatment killed them, only to have this billed as a tragedy needing more of the treatment that exactly caused the problem and the loss.
Voting happens in a democracy, but this is more a totalitarian system.
And all the rest of it. Substances that are highly addictive, not acknowledged as giving harsh withdrawal symptoms, no attention to withdrawal, and then the whole cocktail changed when symptoms the psychiatrists have no ability to understand aren’t suppressed. People forced on said “medications” they can’t refuse, then used in clinical trials and abruptly taken off of the medications to have the withdrawal symptoms listed as signs of the disease, while none of what is listed as the disease would be occurring without the “treatment.”
Birdsong, I know. I agree. I was just getting a bit cross-eyed trying to read stuff, and just mentioning something that’s made out to be what it isn’t, I lost an ability to know which way “the word” was going. “Miracle.” The gist is, if you simply get to know it for what it is, it’s like anything else people try to brainwash you regarding. And if you get something out of it, they immediately modulate to finding another reason it helped when it challenges their fixated ideas of how things should be.
And the poor girl who had been born into a satanic cult, she was so disruptive that I asked others if they could find a place for her, which apparently I shouldn’t have. she had started making things up, and then actually told me she was using the sound of the fan to do that. THAT was enough. Maybe I should have handed her some paper so she could write down whatever the fan was saying, so I didn’t have to deal with her every ten minutes coming up with some alarmist story, but I was just that tired of it. It had been going on for more than a day, and I had hardly gotten any sleep. And the whole thing is such a melange of all sorts of people, the mental health system, and then people in the mental health system who then use it as an excuse to control others, while they rebel against it when it suits them, but then other times reflexively have someone committed with push button ease, or go on “medications” to avoid making themselves vulnerable to themselves, they don’t know how to let go of all of the machinery society has put in their reflexes, as if they need the petty rewards they get with such game theory. She had been running all sorts of people ragged. Others told me that she needed to go someplace to save a cat of hers, and having taken her miles to another city it wasn’t to be found. A lot of that could have been withdrawal symptoms from psychiatric drugs. Who knows. Someone else, who was by then at times a raging alcoholic who also did street drugs, because he felt that they he had control over his brain chemistry in contrast to psychiatric drugs, he had gotten her to stop taking all of her drugs. I imagine the psychiatrist who supposedly had integrated her personalities had gotten her on a whole cocktail of them. The girl ended up being committed, and her case manager actually called me up asking me where she was, although I hear they aren’t supposed to inform someone when there is a petition out against another, only in severe situations I hear then again. I didn’t know where she was, but when she was being processed which I somehow found out, after being abducted in to the asylum, I actually called up there, to let her know she could come back over here. But in the asylum, they actually connected me up with someone working there processing her, which they weren’t legally allowed to do, and he actually tried to ridicule me: “She has a petition against her, so I don’t think YOU can help her,” he says to me. He wasn’t even supposed to talk to me. It was illegal, actually at that point. I then later had talked to her psychiatrist who supposedly integrated her personalities, and he actually laughed about it, and made a remark about doing things legally, as if this was funny. Makes one wonder what else they think is “normal.”
All put together, it’s like it’s forcing one to see that SOMETHING ELSE must be taking caring of things, and its best to practice non attachment, and trust the Universe, and enjoy life instead of getting involved in it all.
I actually haven’t heard from her, or about it her since then. Was that 2007 or 2008? I don’t even know. The things you encounter going on with the mental health system, and I could go on and one about it. All the pretenses that “something” needs to be done, and all of the ways that people disassociate from what the actual results are of this URGE they have to do something, being relieved just to do something while completely not caring to see the results.
I could go on all sorts of tangents, what I’ve encountered. The most bizarre things the mental health system does.
It’s unbelievable to what degree this society worships fear, and the ability to control other people with it. The results being things going on no one would believe for thinking these people trained to traumatize others are some sort of salvation. And when things go wrong, they think they need more of it. Same as psychiatry with it’s war against the brain, any time they brain actually expresses that trauma doesn’t work, that it’s not a means towards sanity……This society is then so bent and addicted to using trauma as a means to control human behavior, that people go ballistic when someone just shows a bit of color outside of the allowed hues of behavior. And thus you have the penal system with the Supreme brainwashed pundits (Court) that have shut down Roe versus Wade, where two of the judges clearly were exposed to be sexual predators before they were “approved,” and what the military does invading anywhere that doesn’t bow down to the economic games of the powers that be, and then academics controlled by the same, and viola “religions.” I had some idea that people active in a satanic cult had some sinister aspect to them. This poor girl had told me how he father had impregnated her sister, by raping her, the poor sister had a child, and the father murdered the baby in front of the whole family with a knife, telling them that that is what would happen if they left the cult. I asked her what those people were like, as if they had some dastardly aspect to their behavior, like you see actors take on. The guy in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire who played the servant of Voldemoort that had gotten it so far that Harry would end up in the graveyard so Voldemoort could to his spell to revive his “body.” David Tennant was that actor. He then would move his tongue like a snake, as if this expresses evil, or any other of the characterizations that go on. But the girl answered real simply, with no affect at all.
“What are those people like?”
“Just like anyone else….”
You wouldn’t believe how in simply experiencing for myself what “mental illness” is, so I know myself. Having gone through it rather than being a tourist. You wouldn’t believe how many “actors” that can come into my city, which is big enough to be a city but there never are any paparazzi, how many actors I’ve encountered, having somehow heard about me, and my talk about having past lifetime memories of “Vaslav Nijinsky,” what kind of bizarre interest turns up with them. People I have never had ANY conversation with regarding a feeling I had about a past lifetime, suddenly referring to me by that name, and then even male top billed actors making sexual advances towards me, as if I’m some exploitation for their repertoire of human experience, although they aren’t out at all regarding their homosexual feelings and desires. As if it’s some means to keep them happy so they can project this image of “happiness” and being human, but it’s too much for them to actually go out into the spaces that the vulnerable people who actually life such compelling issues find themselves, just because they actually are that human. And then doing it in a way that actually would have rehashed the kind of sexual exploitation, insensitivity, and intrigue that ruined “Nijinski’s” life. In ways it is SO bizarre! Because the issue is THAT compelling, society can’t really escape it, and these eager “celebrities” think it their duty to act compassionate about it, while being so full of themselves and their image that their behavior does exactly the opposite. And it becomes a desire to act out this compelling issue, but they wouldn’t know how to relate to the reality of it, beyond making a Hollywood commodity out of it.
Sorry, I’m rather all over the place, but just trying to respond to such nonsense I end up all over the place. Trauma is trauma, it’s not a means towards population control, and neither does one win a war against one’s oppressors by using the same process they used to traumatize you. Miracles actually transcend that. Something does happen when you step out of investing in using fear, trauma, coercion and physical violence to control people. And there is ample evidence that such a shift occurs. That’s something different than believing in “magic” because it makes you feel relieved. That’s what snake oil salesmen do, and lately the mental health system.
Wow, you really brought up a can of worms here.
Not only was this wonderful man, I already mentioned, put into an asylum, because he resonated with reality enough that miracles would happen, but then of others the āChurchā still has this kind of stuff to say: https://www.catholicdoors.com/isit/isit05.htm The real story of Leaholof is then here: http://leaholof.blogspot.com/ She did nothing but help a whole immense collection of people. It was from a lady in charge of āCampus Ministryā at a local āCatholicā college, who when I shared that Leaholof exists (and she had gone to colleges to show miracles happens), it was from her I heard this bizarre remark: āthatās just too different.ā Leaving me with a hoard of other stuff regarding this ācollegeā that āministryā and the rest Iām bypassing, regarding their āsociety.ā Back to an actual miracle worker. I talked with her PA a few times, and he explained how the church wouldnāt let her do healing get togethers in their church, and the wry elitist even sarcastic tone this went on with. I talked to Leah once on the phone, out of nowhere. I was calling the phone of her PA and she answered, but it was a rather stressful occasion. If I get into all of that Iām all over the place, wondering where to start. A friend of mine had gone off on a binge to another state (her father lived there) and she was over the deep end, she let someone else have access to her house for the time being, and he had met this girl in an asylum, who he brought to the house. This poor girl had been born into a satanic cult, and had numerous multiple personalities. She told me that they had been integrated, with help of a psychiatrist, but I donāt know about that given the history Iāve yet to go into. I donāt remember exactly what happened, I think that the girl, whose house it was had come back into town (after being committed out of state, and it not helping her, she later committed suicide, which I shared here https://www.madinamerica.com/2023/01/hashtag-involuntary-commitment/#comment-204889). Regardless, for some reason the other poor girl who had been born into a satanic cult, had somehow gotten out of it (thatās a whole story involving foster care, and people who donāt believe such things exist, and multiple levels of denial) and had been taken in somewhere else, but it wasnāt working out. She had become paranoid, exhibiting signs of the kind of torture she had been through. In satanic cults, one of the things they do is make a person unconscious with altered substances, and then upon waking try to convince them they did something horrible which there is evidence of, all to control a person with guilt, and thus get them to go along with the cult or they might be exposed. She consequently constantly was making out something was going on, or that someone else was making out something was going on which wasnāt, and the police would be at the door from false reports. I found this out, because I tried to help her, and took her in. I really didnāt know the difficulties in such situations, and had this grandiose fantasy I could change the world and help such a person. In the midst of all of this, I called Leaholofās number. And she answered. I told her about this girl, and she mentioned making her whole, and understood without having to be told, what was going on. She also mentioned a few other things which still resonate with my life, immensely. What happened after that, and took me years to integrate, was that at one point, after talking with Leaholof, I wanted to share the instructions Leah has on a healing tape, in order to get into the healing energies. She leads you through to a point where thereās a light there, and you can let go of anything thatās ever been bothering you, in your life. I felt I needed to tell this girl to do that, but she responded: āIāve been doing that for the past half hour.ā And did this with the innocent happy voice of a child, like you often here from a child, when you tell them something while their own instincts already have done all of that. The kind of voice that reminds one about the goodness of life, and that everything is taken care of. For years, before I got it, I thought she was just pretending, but having had the same kind of experiences with thoughts coming out of nowhere in the void of having to come through the kind of swamp of incoherence āsane thoughtā makes out of whatās real and what isnāt, I know thatās not the case. This healing works from a place where there was such a connection. Because it exists. And this girl, instead of being a victim to the extend that would call on I donāt know what would solve the problem, only making it worse, something else was there.
For years and years and years, her healing tape, which I recorded onto a CD, would be there when I needed something to sooth me.
You can read her PAās story on the link I shared. Thatās all an extremely bleak remnant of a person who doesnāt even have a WIKI page (multiple true miracle workers donāt: Gene Egidio doesnāt, although he traveled to Russia and all over the plant and got the Russian cosmonaut medal. Charlie Goldsmith doesnāt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-gQ6oBDpB4 , Dean Kraft doesnāt http://www.deankrafthealer.com/ , Michael Stellitono doesnāt https://www.myindependencereport.com/michael-stellitano-energy-healer-and-author/ and then others who do are then treated with the same disrespect as Gene Egidio did as a child, when he was put in an asylum, supposedly ādebunkingā true science)ā¦ After getting involved with spiritualism (which I wouldnāt advise people to do, if they are insecure socially the same as any āreligionā because of the bizarre āsocialā behavior one encounters) I did go to see a true healer, a Filipino āpsychic surgeonā and knew afterwards that 20 years had been added to my life, or the amount of time neuroleptics statistically take off of someoneās life. And then just knowing such reality exists on the planet, that youāre not abandoned, that there isnāt this harsh wall between you and potential, that you can let go of the worldās way of thinking and thereās something else there, I think that THAT saved me from predatory behavior from the mental health system. Somehow, I was always able to gain some sort of gentle detachment or balance, leaving the mental health system incapable of force treating me. THAT in contrast to the horror one encounters say with a āreligion.ā
Thereās a healer lady Carol Everett, who recently helped me pick up the pieces. She also has scientific evidence thatās just simply dismissed. This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD7tQC_H9eY and this one (you have to sign into youtube to confirm your age because the lady receiving the healing is filmed naked, I think because thatās easier for the thermal imagery monitoring the healing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=391Wi37YliY. Carol, then, in her sanctuary, has the simple requirement that one meditates twice a day for 20 minutes, or once for 40 to receive the healing energies, and it worked for me. Not only a physical condition that present āmedicalā institutions wouldnāt have been able to help me with went away (have the x-rays to prove it) but also when I now wake up and meditate, it does dissolve the stress of having to deal with what I have to deal with. The ALARM one encounters with a diagnosis, the amount of social PHOBIA, and people acting really weird and paranoid, saying horrible things about you behind your back, or when youāre there but make their remarkds directed at others so you hear them in order to make you think thereās something wrong with you, or let you know if you do anything they can consider ācrazyā theyāll jump on it like someone wanting to win the lottery, this can be EXTREMELY distressing. Or they start lying, thinking thereās a danger thatās not really there, but they have the right to make out it is, and add their own lies so others will believe it and take action on whatās not going on. And the anxiety of trying to find a means of still finding peace in the world because of it, meditating for 20 minutes helps me let go of the anxiety that might make me so on edge Iām not doing stuff that really leads towards finding peace. Well, obviously Carol also doesnāt have a WIKI page, although she certainly deserves one.
Iām leaving off for now so I can catch a bus, but I could go on for quite awhile about such stuffā¦.. And in posting this I notice there’s something I was going to add, which I haven’t, but will when I get back.
Birdsong, I’m a bit lost…. who is saying what isn’t a miracle? Psychiatric drugs, no I don’t really see they are…. (!?)
Anyhow, this guy here, who helped me be able to shed a physical condition, he was put in an asylum as a child, given shock therapy once a week for a year, because “THE DEVIL” had given him special gifts, and miracles just happened around him. He tells his story: https://youtu.be/g9edB02jWP0?t=711
No believing in something in which there is no evidence is fanaticism, and cult forming etc. when this goes beyond simple natural thought, feelings and experience. I don’t know since WHEN what “OTHERS” define as having no evidence constitutes some greater faith, when regarding all manner of things there IS enough evidence, it’s just dismissed. So believing in something there’s no proof for becomes what!?
Oh, the irony….
That is JUST like for example “Christians” to go on about everything they “believe” in, but when a miracle actually happens, you hear: “that’s just too different,” even when there’s ample scientific evidence. Something I have ample times experienced in different ways, and yes there’s evidence enough that they simply are dismissing what’s really going on (or look at the Catholic church’s behavior even to their saints), even what founded their “belief.” Added to that I’m not going to go on that Jesus is the one, the only one, or even that he’s the best investment regarding miracles. It’s just that they DO happen, and there is evidence. That they don’t, THAT would be believing in something that doesn’t exist.
Or then we have “psychiatrists” going on about chemical imbalances, but it’s just too “unfounded” for them to actually SEE that they are causing them, because of what the “institution” says regarding such phenomenon. EVEN when the most prevalent evidence regarding chemical imbalances involved with the mental health system is those CAUSED by their “treatment.”
So one can go on about irony now…..
Thought by itself is immaterial, however its results aren’t necessarily so. It’s like “scientists” going on about who knows what, as if there’s no source for the material world, beyond what it’s going to tell them when they keep bothering it, even when science tells them what actually happens in the Quantum world regarding “observation,” with the wave-particle “duality.” Something again which constitutes a bunch of words put together because there’s supposed to be “evidence” somewhere in a box, but the evidence pointing out anything organic towards such is dismissed. So it has to be one or the other, and when it acts as both it’s not something else entirely the whole……
I have to agree, with the concept that even the new age, or yoga teachers, or meditation teachers, or others, they really so often can’t help a person when they float into the place beyond linear time, which is actually natural, but so often listed as psychosis. The symbolism, the essence actually of why “fictions” or “mythologies” or “legends” exist, is then instead called “non-reality based” and the rest of such nonsense. Just because people would have to look deeper at what the mind expresses when it goes into the machinery that determines the play-out, the labyrinth, the momentum of time, itself, beyond the physical ability the senses have to determine what they can’t see but only feel or express with harmonics, imagery and symbolism.
“Religion” and “psychiatry” seem to be in the same boat as indoctrination rather than simply listening, being curious, and SHUTTING UP with their attempts at programming rather than allowing and showing decent curiosity!
I want to know whether Torrey takes ADHD medications just to keep himself fixated on stuff that doesn’t have to have anything to do with reality beyond that to certain people it “sounds” good.
That homelessness comes from a chemical imbalance, in a city which entertains Wall-street, and all of the hedge-funds and the rest, that’s majorly delusional. Let alone that the chemical imbalance theory hasn’t panned out statistically or scientifically since it was forced on the populace, how much does it serve to suppress the stories, the reality, the experience, the suffering, the disregard, the dismissal, the disenfranchisement the abuse and the suppression of voices that truly have something to say about society and what would need attention if it cared about everyone, and not just those having sold their humanity to dehumanizing rewards.
I read this, and was a bit awash trying to see how to respond.
I think that it’s really about “gross institutions,” and although religions in general end up being such, this isn’t all that happens there in “religions”. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard a religious fanatic say “this isn’t a religion,” added to that, in order to make out they have a flexibility that’s not there. When it’s known that religions tend to be about fanaticism, make sure when being one of those [fanatics] you say you’re not promoting a religion. Sort of like the “Clean air Act” or “No Child left Behind,” or the war against terror, or the mental health system.
People think that it’s a comfort to have things “easy,” so someone comes up with something that sounds good, and they think they have an answer. Push button logic. “Religion” does the same. Make out “God” must be some I don’t know what kind of authority, and when you appease him with a “sacrifice” this supposedly makes sense. Same as just pop a pill, and that sounds like you’ve done something responsible.
I completely don’t understand this need to pamper people’s delusional fetishes that they’ve done something, the one result being that anyone actually detaching from what’s going on enough that they aren’t adding to as Charles Dickens put it “how not to do it” https://www.panarchy.org/dickens/circumlocution.html , they are seen to be in high offense of whatever it is the mob is doing to make sure it’s part of how not to do it.
And everyone is anxious as hell, and those with supposedly sane anxiety might be the most delusional, because they think that how not to do it is what keeps things going around, which the rest of the mob chimes in with, and puts it on the pedestal of what’s appropriate in society, gives rewards for it, has parades to honor those doing such, names streets and national Holidays after it. At least those with an “anxiety disorder” express that there’s really something not quite right regarding what we’re all supposed to be doing…..
I read this article yesterday. And was thinking about responding, but then today reading the comments I encountered exactly what explains peopleās reticence.
Iāve never been forced committed. Never committed at all. Not even forced on medications or taken them. Not in this incarnation, anyhow. Iāve had problems with substances that I would resort to without knowing it that might cause whatās labeled as āpsychosis:ā coffee and nicotine, but not even those are acknowledged, nor would the mental health system look with any diligence regarding them, as to whether they are mitigating factors. In reality it was looking at why I couldnāt see cause and effect, why I would be gravitating towards substances that would turn off the left part of my brain enough that it became an attraction. And that takes being allowed to have room to look into stuff that can become extremely uncomfortable, although pushing them away might be even more uncomfortable, although you get rewards for it. But itās been YEARS till I have found enough balance to actually address extreme discriminatory alarmist reactions to me. When too many people, in this age, think you have some sort of a psychiatric disease, there are a whole list of behaviors that anyone without such a stigma can be exhibiting without encountering the alarm. And Iāve seen this used time and time again against others who WERE force incarcerated and ātreated.ā and/or lost their civil right or self determination. A girl who grew up in Chicago simply wanting to go back there, people that dressed differently than ānormal,ā people driving a car in a way that seemed reckless although they never caused an accident (and there are numerous accidents caused because of a person on a psychotropic medications, which isnāt reported), someone doing street drugs (imagine anyone ever having done street drugs all ending up in the asylum), someone having a belief that her dead mother speaks to her through nature (a bird); and Iām holding back from listing the whole plethora of misinterpretations I received from one specific person. Anything I did could be misinterpreted, lies added to spice up her paranoia, and literally ANYTHING. And in other places, a person could be unprofessional towards me, or actually sexually harassing me given the context, and this is overlooked because it made me respond in a way that could be determined to be āpsychotic,ā and then itās listed as āinappropriate.āAs if people sexually harassing you or being highly unprofessional needs to be seen as ākindnessā by someone who it might cause to become āpsychotic.ā
Eleanor Longdon mentioned in her Ted talk how when she was working at a radio station, mentioned this to her psychiatrist as a reason why she needed to leave, he listed that as a delusion that she “thought” she worked at a radio station. He wouldnāt know whether she was working at a radio station or not, doesnāt realize he canāt know that, is putting down inaccurate discriminatory slanderous data, and this is all overlooked because this person is ācrazyā and might be doing āsomething.ā And I have yet to see someone put in an asylum without there being such stuff going on. Someone gets paranoid, believes fill-in-the-blank could be going on, makes out it is when it isnāt, and there you goā¦.
One girl I watched get put in an asylum, when she was trying to get away from the people bullying her that they would do that and had tried to take off on my bike but couldnāt because it was locked, ripped her ankle ligament in the process, she suddenly was made out to be running around naked. She wasnāt, although when they had trespassed into her house, and I had called there upon them answering, and told them she clearly didnāt want them in her house, that when I got such a sarcastic response upon mentioning Iād call the police, I didn’t. When I later called the police when an officer was at her house, I wanted to inform them how the neighbors had trespassed into her house, and used her phone to call her case manager, the non emergency police told me she had been running around naked (she hadnāt been), and so there were lies to the police, again. none of this was checked either. I didn’t know at that time that the police were giving me false information. Her ankle ligament in the asylum was never treated, although her leg was swollen up to the knee, but she was so doped up she wouldnāt know whether she was taking her medications or not, and what difference it would make one way or the other, to be let out and re-admitted. Then they wouldnāt believe she had been raped in the interim, she instead was accused of being too provocative by a nun, who you can imagine what would be too natural for her, and put in restraints for urinating because of the medications. And then after she got out, within a few months she committed suicide. Although I had told her mother if you have her committed I think youāre going to lose her. She then actually had taken someone in at one point years prior, and had him committed, when all she had to do was tell him to leave. Years before this, she had gone on a rampage in Massachusetts, and would assault anyone with the fact that she had a mental illness, and expect them to give her money. The result of forced drugging, and not having the strength to ditch being ānormalā enough to stop thinking she needed her own āchoiceā of them. Time again, she would lean towards a drug solution, and as statistics show, after an interim youād have everything that was suppressed emerge again. Iām supposed to say that things get worse, but if she had actually dared to look into ditching being normal, shedding a whole array of game theory needs, looking into alternative treatments, things could have gotten better, and she could have ditched what was keeping her going round in circles. Had the same occurence again, I heard recently. Happened to a family whose motherās mother trying to help the movement to end racism in the 50s or so, she encountered enough trauma to end up in an asylum, the daughter was made to think it was some treatment, half of her family got the same knee jerk reaction when she got married,had children, there was trouble and they were and put on ātreatmentā, and when she and her husband died, another family member (this is a grand daughter of the original poor lady incarcerated) got a check in the mail for 100,000 dollars because of investments they didnāt know were there (the mother was extremely senile towards the end of her life and so wouldnāt know), and she decided to buy a house for her brother, who had been in and out of institutions for over 30 years. This brother was the same guy the girl I mentioned before had put in an asylum, when all she had to do was tell him to leave. HE was so messed up and confused and angry he sounded at times like a synthetic intelligence program criticizing anything to find some self worth, decided that street drugs was how he could control his chemistry rebelling against psychiatric oppression, and then the alcoholism. I told his sister that he wouldnāt know what to do with a house, he didnāt value that, he needed something different. It simply sounded shockingly unrealistic to me. All that came to pass also, I heard recently. Took about a year. They had to restore the house, and sell it. He ended up in the asylum, which by now probably with all of the times he was institutionalized adds up to maybe enough money given the totality of times he was put in the asylum, that a whole array of houses could have been bought instead for homeless people. People that would value the house. These are now being forced on treatment in New York.
That whole horrible āparagraphā of stuff to denote just some of the stuff one encounters being involved with people in such a system, when youāre also dealing with it, but not trapped in it and can have perspective. How life becomes ācolored.ā I still canāt believe conversations Iāve had recently with people, and find how they just spell out symptoms, as if this is a call for something to be done, while their own trust in the system is way worse than what they are pointing their finger at regarding others. Someone talking about another, I donāt even know, as having grandiose thinking, whileā¦. I was supposed to believe this (!?)
Iām still overloaded with the lies and distortion Iāve encountered. As if thereās something wrong with being human rather than a fabrication of beliefs that push all of that to the side, as if any response not robotic and fear based has something wrong with itā¦ā¦ Literally ANY response that’s natural.
I AM able to put that all on the line now, though. Am doing that, and will continue. I can only imagine what itās like for anyone that has been committed.
People like Gina Fournier, and the others. Makes me cry. Hang in there. Don’t give up in being human….. there is something beyond all of it that remains free….. don’t give up….
force medicating people hasn’t statistically caused a lessening of the problem it is said to eradicate.
And people who aren’t following such a method are not going to end up in an asylum, added to that those there aren’t allowed to disagree with said method when you say you bring “Mad in America” ideas them, ideas you haven’t at all shared with us regarding what you say you offered or “brought” to those in an asylum. What you’ve done is quite harshly called people insane when they point out the cause and effect of what goes on in an asylum, and that it correlates with the spike in the problems you seem to think is going to be fixed there, but hasn’t been. And yet you say you “brought’ “Mad in America” ideas to the asylum.
“I read an essay here once defending leaving a woman unmedicated [SIC] to the point that she was lying down on a bridge in rush hour traffic. Thatās, um, insane.” What’s “insane” is denying the correlation with the spike in such problems and mainstream drugging: forced, coerced, and promoted. Only I shirk from using the word insane to describe such harsh denial, a person that’s “insane” would be more flexible in their thinking.
I don’t think the person you describe as lying down on a bridge in rush hour continues to do this regularly, although what goes on in an asylum as “treatment” does continue regularly, and regularly causes the spike in the problems. Or the rest of the symptoms you hurl at us as excuse for what clearly correlates with the spike in them to be denied.
This is quite rude, to deny all of the well thought out material on this website, supporting statistics, supporting clear science (this is something different than saying “medications” that cause chemical imbalance treat it, and when after an interim of symptoms being suppressed by the brain being disabled there’s more of the problem that there’s need for more “medications” when not only other methods not allowed correlate with recovery instead, the initial setup of the asylums the Quakers had, and where the name comes from, before the whole bio-medical method, also had more recovery), and material on this website supporting perspective, supporting free choice, all the rest of it HERE on this website. To ask someone what their strategy is, as if there’s not ample information on this site supporting alternative methods, and expect someone to spit out in one comment all of that. When in reality you are trying to make out anyone supporting all the clear evidence is not reality based, because that’s not the mainstream method, regardless of the statistics from said “method.”
There’s a difference between what is made out to be the solution, and statistics. And no, it’s not going to excuse the statistics to pound on that anyone not supporting the standard method and thus disregarding science and statistics, that they aren’t supporting a working strategy.
If you ask a question, you do need to want an answer to it, not just a whole mob echoing what you want to hear so you don’t have to take perspective on what’s going on.
Again listing symptoms of what in reality medications as a method of treatment have caused such an epidemic of that it’s caused a spike in such occurrences in order to validate that “treatment” is necessary, and anyone pointing out there’s a different way is not reality based. This shows who has a problem with science, with reality based treatments, with statistics, and acknowledging what’s effective and what isn’t.
“I read an essay here once defending leaving a woman un-medicated to the point that she was lying down on a bridge in rush hour traffic. Thatās, um, insane.” You’d have to actually leave a little more direction as to which article that was, how you maintain that “medications” would have helped her, what the other person said or the context of what you say would leave a person to lie down on a bridge in rush hour etc. You also leave no room for how much inattention there was to anything BUT “medications,” and whether under scientific scrutiny that DOES solve the problem in a better way WITHOUT forced medicating.
You aren’t acknowledging the statistics. Which also is why there’s the book Anatomy of an Epidemic, or Psychiatry under the Influence. Psychiatric drugs disable natural function of the brain, while this may seem to promote lessening of symptoms for an interim, in the long run this causes more relapsing, added on diagnosis, loss of life expectancy, and the belief that what in the long run has made things worse is the solution. And then there’s the extreme phobia against symptoms that being turned off weren’t understood, there’s the lack of allowing for perspective that might help a person understand their responses rather than suppress them, and this becomes a bit like saying that turning off an alarm is the solution, rather than why the alarm went off and what the cause is for the alarm. All for suppressing symptoms. That people have become so terrified of their symptoms that they vie for the drugs, but not leaving the brain in healthy enough of a state to be able to understand the cause of the symptoms, that is evident, as well as that people who are not allowed to speak against the medications aren’t going to come prancing to you, or to the authorities of the asylum when simply expressing how they really feel could label them as non compliant, and they might endure further “treatment.”
In the beginning the idea of asylums came from (if you would read Robert Whitaker’s books) places the Quakers had set up, where a person indeed got an asylum: they got healthy food, slept well, had daily activities that made them feel alive. This isn’t what’s going on in present day asylums. It also simply doesn’t happen that a person ends up in an asylum without being forced on medications, so whether forcibly committed or not, one isn’t able to determine whether a setting without forcing medications would help, although historically it has shown to help better. The Quaker setup had an immensely higher recovery rate. This becomes a complete Catch 22, when all you do is state that something needs to be done, and then deny that what’s being done clearly correlates with the spike in the problem.
THAT is insane!
Also, when in a setting where people aren’t even allowed to maintain that they know what’s going on with them, can’t refuse treatment; and you state you try to share “madinamerica” ideas with them, and they “tend to” reject them, says you….(what kind of people do you actually engage with, are the people that might agree with madinamerica ideas interested in engaging with you etc.) you might TRY a different environment, where people are encouraged to say what they think and feel, where this is nurtured, where there’s attempt at getting into the workings of what their mind is expressing, even when it’s not understood and labeled as “crazy”, somewhere they actually have free choice to say what they think regardless of the response to life when this isn’t allowed, and regardless that when they aren’t allowed to unburden themselves of stuff that’s otherwise not welcome one gets such responses labeled as symptoms, stuff anyone can go endlessly on about labeling and suppressing while causing more of it by labeling it rather than going one step further into how it’s understood when not treated as something that happened for no reason other than the brain was healthy and needed to be disabled by “medications” said to treat a chemical imbalance while in reality causing one, and also in the meantime correlating with a spike of said “symptoms”….. and then you might be able to determine what’s going on.
People under a coerced situation, not allowed to entertain other methods that statistically offer more recovery without being labeled as non compliant and further coerced and treated with the only thing they are allowed to see as the solution and not question and not rebel against…..even if they agreed with you, somewhere in the quiet of their own mind still left free to think its own thoughts, were they intelligent they might not state what they think, just to make sure no one else hears their response and its reported, and they get further labeled as non compliant…. In fact they might actually not dare to entertain agreeing with you….
Consistently stating the effects of what the “treatment” in reality correlates with causing more of, and saying people are insane who won’t promote that treatment, this shows serious signs of brainwashing…..
It’s like going to a regime where anyone disagreeing with the “authorities” gets labeled as being dangerously dissident, and then asking them something that if they agreed with you would get them in trouble the regime that if nothing else would illicit a fear response from agreeing with, and then stating this shows how much people agree with the regime….
I guess they just don’t have enough money yet to hire Hollywood superstars to make movies yet about a new pill called “Tinkerbell”…. Although there has been a much publicized trial about someone who acted out (years ago in a “movie”) popping something that brought him back to “reality” enough that presently in his “real” life he seems (reportedly with court evidence) to have popped enough on all sides of the bargain that his “Christ” complex has taken such a hold that such “magic” and his “image” clouds over the very thought that all of that could have made him quite violent, to not remember it, and go back to this whole insert-image-name-commodity or not?
And where’s the movie about snake oil salesmen and their time machine? As resurrections, religions and āentertainmentā goesā¦.
Funny thing as it seems as if the ānemesisā exposing all of that is the most googled celebrity the past year…
I wonder if I see now? You are saying that if one would sue the states that are doing these things (calling people who are homeless crazy, as if there’s no reason they are homeless, or then not acknowledging those who are damaged by forced AOT etc.) that then the other states would have to get together to not do that? Or at least the issue would become known…
That’s awfully noble…
I don’t really know what you are referring to regarding “externalities,” because it’s not clear, It sounds as if you are making a sarcastic remark, as if I brought up points which aren’t relevant. That isn’t what I did, and I’m sorry if I misunderstood, but it’s not at all clear from your curt post what you mean. It’s real typical to invest in a solution (put them all in the asylum, the drugs will fix them up), and then regard everything that points out to it not being a good idea as “externalities” or “spurious” or “superficial” or “unrelated” or “irrelevant” or “irrational” or “crazy” or “psychotic” or “emotional.” In reality what becomes “external” is the whole premise that something is valid when it is made out to be founded in logic because it uses mental constructs, and thus conceptually seems that it should work for “something,” while whether it actually works or not is dismissed, because of the constructs. But because it sounds like it’s a process or a method, whether it works or not people are relieved, and this is like turning off a warning signal and acting like the problem is fixed. The warning signal was not an “externality.” This becomes worse when the “solution” actually does damage, even though one thinks these are needed “side effects.” One would be better off handing out magic charms for a placebo effect. People are so addicted to believing medications work when there are side effects, or the no pain no gain philosophy, that they think the addiction is “just side effects,” or “necessary pain for gain,” or even sign of the disease that needs this “solution.” Iatrogenic damage is not from the disease.
If you are referring to what goes on outside of the supposed solution, which is caused by the supposed solution (and so really isn’t “outside” of it at all, but made out to be outside, irrelevant etc), while the “solution” is pared down to those marginal few that it helps but would be helped better by other methods suppressed by the “solution” then yes, those are problems with “externalities.”
As “externalities” go I was referring and am referring to internalities which are cause. From cause and effect. There is only an extreme rise in mental illness, in disability, in violence from people forced on medications, and this was not going on before people were force drugged, were deprived of their civil liberties, we’re lied to that the medications treat chemical imbalance when in reality they cause it by disabling the brain rather than making it healthy. To behave as if what is clearly in collusion with causing the problem, that this is the solution and isolate one small subset of a group while ignoring that the whole group in itself is much worse, this is only adding to the numbers and acting like the small subset advertised as being treated effectively can dismiss the whole rise and the group in its entirety. Furthermore, this also advocates for suppressing methods which not only would help the subgroup better, methods which statistically have proven to do this, but suppresses methods which help more effectively the whole group in its entirety. Advocating for what statistically scientifically and methodically has shown to be more effective that is dealing with cause and effect which is what’s going on at an internal level with the people, and that is what I was addressing. Also I am not interested in forcing anybody to do anything forcing any situation and going against nature rather than with it. Going against nature and using force is what causes the whole problem to begin with rather than listening to people.
This isn’t about treating mental illness. It’s about suppressing insight being given as to how people become homeless. It’s about making people feel comfortable that don’t want to know. It’s about superficiality. It’s no different than acting like promoting “mental health programs” in was zones is going to help, but not promoting negotiations, or exposing the power grabbing going on. Same as Kendra’s law wasn’t about making it less dangerous for the general populace, in that it makes it more dangerous. It covers up the collusion the standard mainstream drugging method has with the spike in mental illnesses. To tend to situations, one has to deal with cause and effect, not deny cause by selecting a fragment of the whole effect of the cause, and then supposedly tending to that, and even would in that little select fragment there be signs of improvement, it’s still an excuse to deny the whole major overlying and underlying cause.
It’s simply not true that people are homeless because they are mentally ill, this denies the whole economic-social abuse that caused their problems.
It’s simply not true that tending to mental health in a war zone actually stops the abuse people encounter, it only makes it out to be a “mental illness” when one has a natural response to an extremely traumatic experience. The same goes for poverty, minority status, and the rest of disenfranchisement: one would have to actually take trouble to stop war, poverty, discrimination and neglect itself.
It’s simply not true that laws like Kendra’s law stop violence, they cover up the collusion psychiatric drugs have with causing violence, they also promote MORE violence towards people with a diagnosis.
To me that sounds simply superstitious. Although that’s pretty normal for a whole mob of “social workers” and seems to be the majority. It’s none of a “social workers” business to decide where a person travels to. I have heard the same weird phobias from other social workers, fortunately not those I had anything to do with, but acquaintances. Anything anyone does, who is considered to have some diagnosis, can be interpreted to be something a social worker, or psychiatrist or “judge” even decides has some negative effect. It’s like one is supposed to sit and stare at the walls, or watch silly inane television the whole day, and be happy when patronized by well meaning people who think they are doing you a favor treating you as if you’re sick, and they are being kind by treating you like you’re incapable of thinking for yourself, have no history you might want to feel empathy for, but have become some object for them to decide as to how you should be behaving, and anything outside of their fixations is part of a “disease.” Do any normal thing, which anyone else does all the time, anything that expresses personal freedoms and on come the labels. I live in Grand Rapids MI, and a girl I knew who grew up in Chicago, and who was in Grand Rapids, and on “meds” that took away any sexual feelings (typical anti-depressants effect for what percentage of people, I’ve seen it listed as 50%), and then a whole other cocktail which wasn’t helping her; and then if she simply wanted to go to Chicago, like anyone else could do, this was a sign of the “bipolar” disease. If she had a friend visit her, her social worker actually SERIOUSLY said she “thought” she was selling herself for sex. Which she wasn’t doing. And then further stuff I won’t go into. It’s like privilege to make stuff up about people, and the right to officiate paranoia for “social workers.” A lot of them are simply completely unable to understand or relate to behavior they’ve been trained to see as symptoms of a “disease.” And others who DO have perspective, who do have insight, who have helped people understand their normal responses towards life, be it trauma, or challenges with cognition, or knowing what is affecting them in diet or other routine activities, they aren’t even allowed to help; when a person has this perspective, and an approach that correlates with recovery rather than a life on drugs, and more disability, relapsing and loss of life after an interim of symptoms suppression, they are labeled as unprofessional, when they don’t first plug in psychiatric pharmaceuticals. I myself actually never went looking for therapy, because I’d seen SO MANY friends being treated in such a fashion, but then I heard about a different place, with a different approach and have been seeing therapists from there for maybe 6 years or so. Maybe seven. It’s in ways just someone to talk to, and they are interested, and I think learn from me, because I’m going through that, and it’s something different than someone being “taught” what’s going on. One “social worker” who I fortunately had nothing to do with, other than she was teaching a parks and recreation’s class; when she was tremendously paranoid, and clearly does this labeling of anything she feels free to erroneously, I heard actually a voice tell me to not even ask her questions after class, to just go there, and leave. But unfortunately, I was disassociating from such paranoia, because it’s hurtful to know how brainwashed people are, and I also knew there was no concern, I wasn’t doing anything, so I didn’t heed that voice. At one point, along with a whole plethora of bizarre false interpretations, and paranoid hostility, she actually said: “I know, he doesn’t hear voices, he sees things that aren’t there, it’s non reality based.” This after a voice was clearly warning me. I could go into all of the symbolism of stuff I thought was going on for one day, and then the next knew it wasn’t, even how the symbolism was perhaps more objective than physical reality, because it had to do with stuff at a soul level it expressed what was going on conceptually same as fiction describes interactions that have meaning, and even themes of a physical miracle I later experienced (13 years later) from what themes are, and what they have to do with life, and why time exists.. That’s just my experience. Everyone has their own, and their own interests, and their own way of relating to their life, but I couldn’t BELIEVE the plethora of bizarre interpretations going on, and ridiculous paranoia, all because she could look into her computer, and see I had some “diagnosis.” The DANGER then actually becomes trusting people that you wouldn’t think are HIGHLY discriminatory. And if you love human nature, as much as people do who make themselves extremely vulnerable expressing that with all these symptoms listed as being from psychiatric diseases, then you aren’t going to judge others, or you don’t want to. In a way it’s simply embarrassing that such paranoia is going on. It’s not different from people brainwashed in the old South regarding that Black people are dangerous, or the rest of the bizarre indoctrinated discriminatory paranoia towards Jews, or Gypsies, or Homosexuals, or Women, or Children when they are simply human…..
I notice, looking at your posts from the comment history, that you also were put on a whole host of meds, and then suddenly, you were left without even any help or information regarding the problems with going off of psychiatric medications, when your psychiatrist lost her license. And that’s simply unheard of in medicine, but it’s standard in “psychiatry.” That’s also how they often rig their “scientific” trials, they put people in the non control group that are addicted to a medication or medications, take them off of it or them, and then call the withdrawal symptoms signs of the disease while those in the control group are “medicated”: and thus clear of withdrawal symptoms. What CLEARLY to anyone actually interest in the science of it, is about withdrawal symptoms, is made to be about an organic disease that genetic or environmental (but NOT the holy psychiatric drugs). There’s no attention to withdrawal symptoms, there aren’t any real official resources to help people get off of highly disabling “medications,” unless you’re a millionaire, although there are the unofficial resources like this site. There’s not even acknowledgement that what’s going on IS withdrawal symptoms, that’s mostly listed as signs of a disease, in fact damage that the DRUGS CLEARLY do, the drug companies have tried to make out that’s the disease. Actual scans showing how drugs for “schizophrenia” swell up the inner core of the brain, and shrink the frontal cortex, this was made out to be from the ‘disease,” until this was corrected. And then your story of simply being dismissed, not even told you’re going to have severe withdrawal symptoms, after seeing a doctor who lost her license. Let alone that there would be a place for you to go for help with withdrawal, or that what was going on would even be acknowledged as withdrawal. What I’ve also seen numerous times as well, with another friend is she’d end up in the asylum, and they’d just “change” her meds, without caring to titrate her off of whatever she was on, already. A person doesn’t even know what’s affecting them anymore. You become some experiment to see what effect they can get from the meds, and the disqualify side effects, withdrawal symptoms, long term iatrogenic damage etc. And you’re not even allowed to try methods that don’t correlate with the spike in the occurrences of mental illness that meds are in collusion with.
And YES MOST social workers, given the way the economy of the drug companies works, are FORCED to take on such. In fact, to simply get ANY money for helping a person with what could be deemed “therapy” and in doing so tell them what the truth is regarding psychiatric drugs, and recommending they get off of them, when there’s problems with withdrawal symptoms, or consequent illicited by it because one told the truth of how the drugs work, you can be sued. But a psychiatrist can force a person on “medications,” when they don’t work and a person commits suicide, which has happened NUMEROUS time with anti-depressants, the psychiatrist isn’t held responsible, they can load a person so full of meds it kills them, force or coerce a person on “medications” that in the end shorten their life span, that after an interim cause more relapsing, and disability, that interfere with their ability to hold a job, and then there’s shock therapy, the loss of memory; and all of the paranoia that the answer has to be someplace that in reality correlates with the current spike in mental illness, and…… THAT is “normal” behavior by a psychiatrist.
And then there’s what happened to you, that you’re not even told you’ll have withdrawal symptoms, and that could have killed you.
I agree incredibly, only I truly question whether politics is going to fix these situations. When society negates the instincts to feel empathy with others, it still remains for a victim to invest in feeling empathy in understanding what’s going on and that also means not demonizing even the people that are victimizing them. When you do that you actually simply create your own life with those that work for you and put your energy in that not and demonizing those who are victimizing you, and I think that works because then you have the energy to do that and that speaks for itself. That also leaves room for the universe to fix the situation, and I think the universe has much more ability than the human ego and how it judges the situation and others. I think a good therapist this is somebody that strengthens their clients in a way so that they have the right to their feelings so that they feel they are heard and listened to and that way you feel you deserve something better. That is something quite different than hating and demonizing your oppressors, you don’t fight fire with fire and that just goes around in circles according to me. And maybe you have to transcend the limitations you’re indoctrinated with probably by the very people that would victimize you.
I’m sorry but you’ve got to be joking. I have seen so many people put in an asylum forced on treatment that has only made things worse exactly because a social worker put them there. There’s also an extreme difference between social work and a social worker. Social work is what somebody does when they fund a soup kitchen when they get affordable housing when they advocate that the government provides money for people that are underprivileged. That is not what a social worker does whatsoever for the most part. LCSW is not a degree involving social work it’s a degree involving psychiatric diagnosis and talking to people in therapy sessions. You might also not try to insinuate that the person who wrote this article is oblivious as to what the term social worker in practice is and means and entails. And then not start a response with: “Do you know what social work is?” Because what that implies is that you’re not going to look at what usually goes on with social workers and try to make out people that see it and call it for what it is have some lack of understanding or insight. Is this also what you do when you diagnose people? Because that’s exactly what this article is about and the lack in the mental health system and social work-ers. And no just because somebody tagged the end of the word work with “er” this doesn’t mean that there is some holy connection between social work and social workers. That’s more a marketing gimmick and also something the whole mental health system is quite full of.
WHY don’t they have a study on the withdrawal symptoms of society, when it’s told the truth about ALL psychiatric drugs, and that they DO NOT treat a chemical imbalance!? Is this akin to being told Santa doesn’t exist, the Easter Bunny doesn’t spread around Easter eggs, or that a benevolent deity (or energy or concept) doesn’t need someone tortured to death in order to allow people into “Heaven!?” And that they would have a wonderful afterlife if that “example” of how to attain it had never been acted out!? Could it be reality or ideas of benevolence don’t need such publicity stunts!? Since I’m going on about “Jesus” again, I understand that in A Course in Miracles, he says he didn’t see himself as being murdered, he didn’t see himself as a victim, he didn’t see himself as being torn, and the rest of it, then says that one either crucifies themselves and it’s not going on on the outside, but to me that still negates the natural instincts one might have to GET OUT of a situation one can escape from, and then practice forgiveness AND experience miracles the natural way of enjoying life, here on the earth, not someplace you would have ended up regardless, without all of the drama. And if he is going to go on about the inside, then there’s dealing with that on the inside, not in “Heaven” and not by fulfilling a “task.” Dealing with having to escape a situation, and the incurring emotions like any refuge has to, is exactly that, THAT happens on the inside, and I think that’s a bit stronger than see me crucified while I deny it as it makes me into a commodity. You can do this as well. HOW MANY of us having to deal with the mental health system have had to simply give up on being part of this acknowledged machinery in “society,” that’s given rewards for being “constructive!?” Might there be a whole other world, that’s also part of nature!? Psychiatric drugs numb the brain, they interfere with natural brain processes, I happen to love my body, and my brain, and am fascinated by it’s responses, even when I was “psychotic” the whole labyrinth of symbolism and insight going on, from the place of no time, evocations of themes and insights regarding life so my reflexes could gain some legroom in expressing where they might have lead to had I not been “psychotic,” stuff I actually avoided rather than to be normal. Even when my body hurts, or my emotions are disturbing, it’s still fascinating. It’s amazing what’s going on. How can you grow finger nails, how can you breath, how does your hair grow, how do you see, feel, taste, love, hate…. all of it. How can my finger hurt when it touches upon a flame, how can I feel love when I hug another person? I don’t see incapacitating the brain from normal functions as part of experiencing a full life. Are there withdrawal symptoms from having incapacitated your brain, whether it’s with chemicals or ideology!?
HALF of people have difficulty getting off of a drug that they were likely lied to regarding how it works and what it really does. That’s what the article says, without even touching upon side effects and the real workings of the drug scientifically. In contrast to the “observation” of those already deciding sadness can be a disease, and that a disabled mind is more healthy when given a chemical imbalance that suppresses said expression of sadness. That while a person is told it’s treating exactly what it causes (a chemical imbalance). And a person is more “happy” with a society that can’t deal with the natural instinctive response called “sadness.” Is “happiness” really such a lie!? A bad fairy tale? The act of being inducted to a society that can’t deal with what’s called sadness which might point out that the indoctrinated “happiness” isn’t quite what it’s made out to be?
Could we START with not lying!? Could we start with not telling magical fairy tales that in the end aren’t magical but predatory towards people wanting to find an answer!?
Well, given that torture is also considered a form of science… I like to think that science is something else… And torture is mind control which is what is going on when you deny the suffering a person goes through in order to what in order to what? This is science when you fixate on ways to deny the suffering and make it out to be a disease? I don’t know what science is supposed to be when that’s included.
This is quite a statement, and really puzzling: “Digital phenotyping has a host of conceptual issues not explored here, but it can be regarded as another example of the the psy-complexās compulsive methodologism, the āuncritical privileging of scientific methodology over other research concernsā.”
I don’t really see that it’s about science, it’s about scientism. Mind control to get people to ignore what a society (whether its Capitalistic, Communist or anything else such as Religious or Social) what that society does to marginalized people by giving rewards to incentivize exploitation, denial, discrimination etc. this isn’t “science” unless you are going to say learning how to deceive people, or buying into deceptions for rewards is science. Neither is the drug companies selling the idea that happiness or being normal, or functional, or fitting into the mob, or even such bizarre things as recovering from shyness to go to the Prom (they actually had commercials on TV promoting anti-depressants for this), you can get this as easy as popping a pill, this isn’t science either, it’s conning people into believing things that don’t pan out (except for drug company profits, which I can’t say is science either, would science have value), and using scientism to do that. And then when things get worse scientism says it’s that they need more pills, rather than seeing cause and effect.
Chemical imbalance comes from the medications, which has been conclusively shown to be true, but it hasn’t at all shown to come from a “disease,” the only “science” involved is that people can be made so alarmed, annoyed, up at arms about the challenge of their emotions, that they will believe such conjurings of false logic. That ISN’T science, neither is it when they use scientism to dismiss what happens to marginalized people, or people in a war zone, or people whose nature is significantly different than the status quo.
For someone to completely not see how homicidal (the loss of life, the creation of chemical imbalances in the name of healing them, the disabling of brains to never be able to figure out what was going on with them so that recovery can take place), and then delusional (you’re creating an epidemic, adding to that doesn’t stop it; you’re CAUSING chemical imbalance and lying to people about it), and then psychotic (if this means non-reality based, that’s also quite abundant see former points),and then use THIS sentence: “I sit here reading this, a retired clinical psychologist, recalling so many family members, distraught because yet again their (son, daughter, father, husband, wifeā¦ etc.) was āwho knows whereā ā psychotic, delusional, homicidal etc. and couldnāt I please ādo somethingā to help them?ā They were frantic.” and then follow it with “I was concerned” without any concern for the truth enough to see it in front of their eyes? I think there are a lot of abused people that would rather be “who knows where,” then with their abusers.
This still made me laugh, how psychiatrists decide someone saying they are Jesus is to them a normal form of “psychosis.” It makes me laugh because it isn’t funny at all. HOW MANY people have they killed with their treatments? What if one of them would resurrect (after dying from treatment), and show up as an angel amongst us? Would the psychiatrist then see that the person wasn’t crazy in the first place? Or would they themselves seek “professional” help? I knew someone who was as big on the drugs she took for her psychiatric “disease” as she was to me quite brainwashed “Christian,” and then one day she had seen “the devil” in the television, and had gone to her psychiatrist who gave her such an upped dose, that her hands were shaking from it. But she found that necessary…..
Bil Wells, I don’t understand what you are trying to say at all. Neither do I see what it has to do with my post. All I can think is that when the word becomes flesh, or a temple, it having been the word first, has no loss in being shared, no such boundaries. You also can share thoughts without any loss, or depletion of any resource. So there really isn’t ANY LIMIT as to who is “the word” that became flesh, or who is “Jesus.”
My point, in MY post was how psychiatrists decide that someone saying they are Jesus, or Napoleon, or whoever they say they are, that they think they can decide that is crazy, without even trying to make sense out of it. Jesus died 2000 years ago, if reincarnation exists there’s no way anyone can determine whether anyone else was that person or not, thus the joke about testing the “ingredients” of someone’s soul. I think I explained that quite well.
I also would appreciate it, when you use the name “Nijinsky” that you spell it correctly. It isn’t “Nijinksy” it’s “Nijinsky.” Could you be that respectful?
There was a person on this site years ago, who used the same misspelling when I and another challenged him on his ideas of original sin, which historically is a plant by the Roman Catholic church, when Christianity had so many followers they couldn’t dismiss it anymore. The same mind control used all over the place with the guise that when you tell people they are under attack (by the “devil” or “original sin”) that you can tell them what to do in order to “save” themselves. It’s not Christian in its philosophy, because that’s actually against what Jesus taught, that there is no sin, that when you see the innocence in everyone, then you see yourself, who you really are, and that’s not a body that needs protection from “evil,” it’s a soul from forever that can’t be destroyed. That’s what Jesus taught me, himself, if you have other ideas of who he is or what he taught that’s your business which you are free to, not mine. You aren’t going to convince me anyone saying they are Jesus, from simply doing that are “crazy” nor are you going to convince me of original since, or that there’s a lake of fire for whoever follows their own truths rather than to be programmed by “Christians”, either.
Ekaterina, this is crazy anyone would get spooky with you, when you say you were Jesus. Ask them to show you the amazing machine that can measure your soul’s capacity, to see whether Jesus is in there are not. How would it measure ingredients? Would that even be spiritual?
Maybe you better not. They might hang you on a cross to die, to see whether you’ll resurrect. (JK!?)
THAT would be interesting. Tell your psychiatrist that you can’t say whether you were Jesus or not, because he might…..
Might it be that ANYONE touching in on the Kingdom of Heaven is Jesus? The same as anyone going to music to allow the emotions of their soul some legroom to express itself might be “Mozart?”
Only if you’re this lonely Citadel of whoever passed away so long ago that he’s not allowed any friends akin to him at all, in order to be “Unique,” only THEN can anyone have been…….
I find this move from the New York “Major” quite offensive, on so many counts:
1) He’s categorizing behavior, in contrast to those enforcing or causing homelessness, of people quite non violent as being a danger, when it’s more those causing the homelessness. I also don’t see it “crazy” would someone think that there is adequate room for shelter and it should be available actually displaying that it isn’t and should be. Space being available; and it wouldn’t cause much of a compromise in reality. And yet the ideology of “I own this because I have suffered,” or “I own this because I have played the game and associate happiness with such hip hop sterility,” that is excuse to despise people who in reality will end up having more of an experience of life that no one can take away from them. Some things you can’t buy.
2) I don’t know anything regarding his political stance, whether he’s from one party or the other, or which side of either he’s on (unfortunately the majority is two parties which mostly lean against each other, using the push against them from the other side to create an arch that ends up being a monopoly edging out any other party, both can be seen as adding up to a business” or “corporate” party); but this token stance of a minority making way to get points from a system rewarding him for leaving the very minority status used as a predatory badge to be exploited by those looking for another badge to ignore the rest, this is quite revolting.
3) He evokes descriptions of people standing at the street corner, ranting and raving (you’ve all seen them he says), air boxing, etc. and then makes out he has any idea of what’s going on with them. It’s not the psychiatric industry doping them up so badly they have such ticks, it’s not that their story was never heard (which he displays denial of) and it’s not that they are frustrated because the system is unfair. And again their story isn’t heard. Perhaps their story is heard, by something greater than this ability to lock people up in “asylums,” and call it an asylum, which it isn’t. Look up the definition.
There were times in my life when I could have ended up, or saw the tendency to end up spouting out at a street corner, or just plain shouting, ranting and raving. But I had music in my life. I knew I had to do something that would ease the tension building up, or I would explode. A simple computer with an electronic keyboard that would put notes into a program: and I had something to do with my fingers, my brain, my ears, my eyes reading the notes to hear them in another dimension… a reason to breath, a place for emotions that just were there without being told to behave, and could imbue life into the vibrations traveling through the air called sound. It was water to a parched plant. Dreams for Joseph whose brothers despised him calling him “The Dreamer” or in our terminology “crazy” because he believed such had value. Anyone could end up walking around homeless, not knowing who they are….. Something or someone other people don’t value: A homeless person… someone or something in need of a home, an asylum, a place to be there. What is an asylum? What’s going on in the “asylums,” homeless people are forced into? Are they being helped? Could it be that the soul needs music or art, or simply the legroom for its emotions to be there, EVEN when you don’t know what you’re doing yet……EVEN when what you do isn’t awarded a place in “society….!?” Could it be that people have experiences they just need to talk about, to be listened to, to work out, to not feel it intrudes on “society” or even their own sanity when they have experienced stuff that falls outside of “normal” “societal” interactions? Is it healing when you are telling a person there’s something wrong with their brain, when in reality the treatment causes that very phenomenon? When that creates which by now would be more of a pandemic than a lessening, does this mean you need more “authority” to enforce what doesn’t work? Is this the truth when you had good intentions but were so sure of it you were scared to see the actual results, which might force you to change your approach? Is it OK to lie for money and a lifestyle, or just money? Or “economic” territory? Or “power?”
An added note: “But this trend can also be seen in a number of recent laws sharply restricting or outlawing the rights of transgender youth to pursue and receive gender-affirming care. ” What is gender affirming care? Whatever gender or genitalia anyone is born with shouldn’t ever be reason that they aren’t allowed, aren’t welcome, or can’t be happy with whatever behavior the other, or any other gender exhibits. And to make the ability to express such diversity dependent on what kind of genitalia or biological make up you have, and thus promote the idea that happiness or the ability to express such diversity would come from changing your biological makeup, which in doing so actually limits diversity to something only accomplished with said change, I can’t say that that’s necessarily gender affirming care. It’s QUITE possible that a person would be more happy were they strengthened with the idea that they can behave however they feel makes them happy, and that both sides affirming what a man is, and what a woman is might be restricting such freedom of behavior, and it might be that neither side defining what is a man and what is a woman resonate with such freedom. You can’t be thus unless you have that, or if I have that, you can’t be thus is not necessarily helpful on either side…. Also “gender,” “male,” and “female,” are all words…. just in case you want to go beyond the redundant: “in the beginning was the word….” Further more, as yet the
“medical” establishment can’t successfully “perform” a sex change operation to create a “female” that can give birth, or a “male” that can give her “his” side of the material necessary. To read about a woman wanting to be a male, having her breasts removed, and then later deciding she wants a child, at what point was this not brought up that wanting a child later other than “medical” attention was granted in the interim, and having her breasts removed would prevent her from nursing the child. And the whole other list of problems when a person has lost fertility, has acquired other damage, can’t reverse the process when or would they change their mind, or children born with sexual organs not denoting either sex who then have their parents told they should surgically be changed to one or the other, and this being done before they can decide for themselves have to deal with having more orientation for the other: surgeries performed because otherwise they can’t have a “normal” childhood. WHY does it HAVE TO BE “one or the other?” Why is THAT seen as gender affirming care?
It might just be that once again, someone deciding that they need “medical” attention gets points consequently, while others wanting something else don’t; while the drug companies and the medical establishment get the profits, just like this scourge of the homeless who for some reason don’t all go marching to the mental health system to get fixed up. And now are FURTHER harassed that there’s something wrong with them. I’m not saying that anyone that has become dependent on “standard” gender affirmative care should just be thrown out in the gutter, or even that they aren’t a minority, or that they don’t deserve to be acknowledged and have help and care. But there might be a greater minority already in the gutter because they didn’t vie for fitting into one of the slots approved of that comes with “medical” attention. And they again are pushed to the side.
I’m sorry, but reading the intro to this post: “Most available narratives are sad stories centred (SIC) around the aspect of a disease, or terrifying tales about psychiatric treatment. But what if there is also something in between?”
To begin with, most available narratives regarding psychiatric treatment DO NOT contain the horrifying tales about psychiatric treatment at all. They are mostly bad fairy tales about an evil chemical imbalance that prince charming in the guise of what have you… (Seroquel, Prozak, Ritalin, Ambien etc.) are going to save you from, while the scientific truth is that they all cause or create exactly that, this “evil”: a chemical imbalance. And then there’s the whole setup of being made paranoid regarding “symptoms” which instead of being explained as normal responses to an environment and understood as any response or emotion is there to be, they are basically discriminated against, instead. Reactions that in reality is there to be understood are separated from their cause suppressed, and the disease model, again created by indoctrination sets in. Emotions are there to be felt, that’s why nature creates them, and psychiatric symptoms are not responses of a brain that’s not working, they are responses of a brain that IS working, science also shows this, because when you DON’T damage the brain with psychiatric drugs there’s more recovery. Other than street drugs (many of which used to be psychiatric drugs a bit more than half a century ago) or bad nutrition and other substances, the only substantive area they are a response from a brain not working, is from the very psychiatric drugs that are said to cure the disease. The side effects, the added on diagnosis as response to side effects. The “cocktail.”
Even regarding spiritual experiences. It’s real easy to glorify an experience into a whole other world, akin to a resort, but to actually work with those energies, to actually detach from the world, to actually decide you don’t need the whole plethora of “gains” the game theory of society and it’s deceptive rewards give you, this is something different from having a number of degrees, a well paying job and the ability to go shopping at will as distraction. The happiness there is beyond that, not from it.
Ekaterina, when there’s the amount of suppressed evidence involving the conclusive science regarding psychiatric drugs, and instead of it being acknowledged how they can get in the way of recovery it’s made out they are necessary for it. This is really comparable to Russia not even allowing a person to express the benefit and happiness they found themselves when they acknowledged their homosexual desires and/ or acted upon them, because would they do so it’s considered pro homosexual lifestyle propaganda and against the law.
Expressing truths isn’t cutting a debate in half. So, it isn’t: “the discussion mostly focusing on whether to take psychiatric drugs or categorically refuse them. There should be something in between.” There could only be something in between if people were allowed to express openly, in a medical capacity, at asylums, in therapy, to their psychiatrist, to their medical doctor, to their family and to the police how they feel the “medications” aren’t working for them. THAT isn’t going on, and THAT is what cuts the debate in half.
I’ll start at the ending: I feel terribly sorry for anyone having to deal with a society that prefers a disabled mind not being able to express trauma, dissent, or spiritual themes that aren’t understood or suppressed: and thus the disabling with psychiatric drugs is seen as healing. And there are many people who see what’s going on in a way that retains the thoughts going on that are labeled as being an illness, instead giving them room to be understood, and then a person has their own space to understand them; but that space should be allowed. It certainly should be allowed when there are people who can help give space, and are part of approaches that statistically correlate with helping the person.
Ekaterina, do you understand that this site doesn’t say one shouldn’t take the drugs, it promotes informed consent, and that means information should be given, from the beginning. And what you share here actually supports the data that psychiatric drugs only suppress symptoms for an interim period, and then things get worse. Your four commitments to an asylum in 2020, then. Also how your psychiatrist didn’t even see how he was over medicating you, and you state that because of the over medicating and how it made you feel, if you didn’t have a son you might have committed suicide, consequently.
You state: “However, I am not anti-psychiatry as such, and I disagree with the current tendency to divide the debate into half: one half is pro-psychiatry, while another is anti-psychiatry, with the discussion mostly focusing on whether to take psychiatric drugs or categorically refuse them. There should be something in between.”
This site really only promotes the scientific data that’s suppressed. That isn’t saying to categorically refuse someone taking psychiatric drugs, it simply points out the science and the statistics. And then promotes alternatives. It does become a problem when someone, being articulate or adept in detailing the true scientific data regarding psychiatric drugs, that then they become accused of dividing the debate in half. The only thing dividing the debate at that point is that one isn’t allowed to actually be articulate, or knowledgeable, or one is made out to be one sided, and from that the necessary information for informed consent, or informed involvement is suppressed. Statistics also points out that psychiatric drugs are more in correlation with a spike in mental illnesses. One can’t say that either, or be articulate about the information without being accused of dividing the debate in half? Many people would say the same about smoking, or sugar, alcohol, street drugs, fast food or Pizza, when information is shared. I’m not even saying AT ALL that there might be mitigating factions that make it more healthy to smoke for awhile, or the rest, just to get the mind off of what’s said one shouldn’t do. Things people do when one is overloaded, but to start promoting those things as a form of healing because they treat a chemical imbalance that would otherwise be chronic becomes dishonest. And then meditating, or mindfulness, or taking a walk in nature, or just consciously deciding not to try to follow said rules, and quietly letting go, that really might help more.
I think it’s more psychiatry that categorically refuses to see that how they implement their drugs, and how they suppress information is causing an epidemic. Yes, there are people that will say just stop taking the drugs, and won’t even acknowledge the difficulty of withdrawal, or that there’s lack of support to do that in a healthy way. But to suppress information, get people addicted, make them think they need medications that don’t help them, and then they are special and taken care of, while denying the statistics of said approach, that shouldn’t have been going on in the first place.
I feel terribly sorry for anyone having to deal with a society that prefers a disabled mind not being able to express trauma, dissent, or spiritual themes that aren’t understood or suppressed: and thus the disabling with psychiatric drugs is seen as healing. And there are many people who see what’s going on in a way that retains the thoughts going on that are labeled as being an illness, instead giving them room to be understood, and then a person has their own space to understand them; but that space should be allowed. It certainly should be allowed when there are people who can help give space, and are part of approaches that statistically correlate with helping the person. That would be what an asylum is…..
To tell you the truth, “some” of the voices I hear, which I already know are thoughts I don’t want to engage with, are SO inline with game theory phobias “society” is trying to get me trapped by, that I simply ignore them. Or I simply know that there’s no value in entertaining them at all, the only reason I might hear or think them is to see I can ignore such false logic. I think there are a LOT of people where such voices which they don’t care to be aware of become conditioned reflexes, and they would be better off being aware of them to get them out of their system. But that’s how it goes with brainwashed people who think others are crazy. Other voices though are helpful. But those are softer in quality rather than they feel like something snapping at you as if they have been attached with elastics that want to snap back at you when you move too much away from them; but if you let go of the conditioned reflex by becoming aware of it, then the elastic dissolves….
Thomas I really feel for you. No one should have to do said task in order to get approval from anyone. People are born themselves, not an entity that needs to find approval. As if God doesn’t exist, or Nature. Or that the Universe isn’t diverse enough that you would find yourself what interests you, what makes you tick, what motivates you, all without having to find approval from others. A tree isn’t looking for approval, it grows towards the sun without fear. It’s human that have these fears that get in the way of their growth.
“I couldnāt figure out how others knew what to do, what was spoken or read. I was a lazy G D. S.O.B. is all. I was told that so often I believed it and the only way to prove I wasnāt āno goodā was to improve at my schoolwork. Since I couldnāt do that, I hated myself as much as I could, hoping that if I detested myself sufficiently (by believing what I was told) I would find the motivation to improve. But, I couldnāt even hate myself as much as I should have, or I would have changed. So, I just kept trying to hate myself as much as I deserved.”
Sorry but what kind of dehumanizing logic tells you that you couldn’t hate yourself enough to improve? I’m really glad that you can talk here about how you felt, because you shouldn’t at all have this idea that YOU need to hate said part of yourself enough, because why? You just didn’t see how wrong it was, and hating would fix that? Hating doesn’t fix it, and those other people or that part of yourself that would be appeased if you hated yourself enough, that’s simply wrong…..
You also say: “Novelty helps and being fascinated by a topic can help briefly.” Why briefly? I hope you find people, or the space where a topic you find fascinating, just for yourself, that you can indulge in that more.
I mean there’s nothing going on when you don’t know why you can’t concentrate. I know in this society, when one can’t concentrate on said things there’s something wrong with you, but that’s a comment on the society, not the person. If you can’t concentrate, then you can’t concentrate. Like the food you eat isn’t going to grow otherwise, from the mother earth. You might actually find that things also work in a way that you at first don’t know why, because you don’t need a reason for it to work, it just was something else you could concentrate on, or a way you could concentrate on it, and that’s OK that it does…..
If everyone is deciding whether you’re a LAZY S. O. A. B. when you don’t do what they decide is your task, how are you ever going to find out what would just sink in by itself, by yourself, that ISN’T something someone else has decided you NEED TO be able to understand, or understand their way? And when you don’t, when you don’t understand it their way, or you simply can’t make sense out of it, or it doesn’t register, then you don’t hate yourself enough!? That’s just wrong!
The ADHD medications probably facilitate you being able to do this stuff that isn’t really so much from your own nature, but stuff that hurts you too much when you can’t. I would encourage you to find other ways that your mind works.
Looking for rewards isn’t really how harmony works. John Nash actually exposed that with game theory, and then a psychiatrist found that when his patients did better, and went home to relapse, when he tested what “home life” was like, that everyone was playing game theory with each other. They weren’t honest, they were all wagering loss the way they communicated even to the people they live with. Their spouses even. It wasn’t what they really thought or felt, it was what they thought they needed to say or do to get what they wanted from the other person. You just, in your post, were extremely honest beyond such boundaries with what you said. You’re not supposed to say how they made you feel worthless, you’re supposed to get their approval….. And I’m getting tired, it’s like I have to have ADHD medications myself, because I can’t remember so and so’s name, and next are all of the weird terms they give stuff that have to sound scientific. I’m also A Lazy Son of a Bitch that doesn’t hate myself enough…… What is his name!? What do you call that!!?
WELL! The book of that man used to be piled next to my bed, which is mattresses on the floor without anything underneath, so I had made a bookshelf out of it. Then I got some bookshelves from my parents, my mother passed away beautifully blossoming into spirit 2021, 94 years old, and my father moved to be with my sister, selling their condominium. I remembered I had put those books from beside the bed down in the basement on the shelves. And there it was. I first looked up “The Anatomy of Experience” because I thought that was the name of the book, but it’s the (no still can’t remember): it’s the “Politics of Experience:” although I just saw it downstairs I had to look it up online. Because I remembered the author’s name R. D. Laing. That’s just one of his books, but he is the one who when his patients would do better, after he helped them, and after they got out of the asylum and returned home, found they relapsed. Consequently wanting to see what was going on he handed out questionnaires (that’s another thing, this SOAB doesn’t know there’s two n’s in questionnaires and the spell check had to tell him). Laing handed out questio[n!n!]aires to people in normal home settings (in contrast to asylums, where people might actually be a little more honest, because they don’t have to be sane, for all I know) and he found out how much they were playing game theory…..
I don’t think people are lacking in the ability to concentrate when they are prey to such games…..
I understand that ADHD medications are quite a black market commodity for stock brokers or people that have to keep the account for hospitals or decide who gets billed. Either extremely predatory mean spirited stuff, or stuff they hate and just want to get through for the money, and is that devoid of meaning. What does that say about what the “medications” really do? And what kind of ability to “concentrate” is forced on children in school that they would need such drugs to help? I don’t know since when attaching the ability to brainwash people onto deciding whether they have the ability to concentrate or not articulates learning abilities, or whether when someone can play pin the tail on whoever is supposed to pay what also keeps them an underling also means productivity… I read somewhere that someone (was it a mailman?) was able to determine how many of the psychiatrists in a very up to do neighborhood were taking ADHD meds, could be because they delivered their prescriptions, I don’t remember exactly, but….. it was a majority.
Do you understand that: “a brief stint in the hospital to get symptoms under control” in the end doesn’t get symptoms under control, it suppresses them, normal expression in order to unburden oneself of underlying causes isn’t allowed, and you end up with things getting worse. Also, in the 1960s the introduction of new psychiatric medications isn’t why there was such an exodus from the state hospitals, it was because they found out that there were many people in there that had nothing going on. One used to be able for 500 dollars have a person committed for life. They found that many or most of the people had nothing going on with them, they just weren’t integrated with society, and when looked at there was nothing going on with them other than they hadn’t dealt with taking care of themselves for years. The new psychiatric medications didn’t fix people up then, doesn’t statistically fix people up now but if you find that there are a population of people that should never have been committed, and you have these new medications, the drug companies could act like they found this magical solution.
I think the problem with homelessness is homelessness, not mental illness. For this mayor to play the public image game and continue to stereotype people he as a policeman never got to know, this only makes it worse for all homeless people. I think that the increase in the homeless is because of the pandemic, and now the proxy war of the West against Russia in Ukraine and the economic turns, to start using that as an excuse to give more power to the mental health system to pick up vulnerable people that their methods correlate with more of the problem, this is nothing but smoke and mirrors, and pretense. Neither has the mental health system helped those struggling with the horrors of homeless, or the pandemic or those stuck in war zones of suffering because of the consequent emotional turmoil from the economic down turns. It’s like the fundamentals being against abortion while making it impossible for many people to take care of children financially, while they promote wars in other countries. It’s those people that would overlook that the war in Iraq with all of its use of depleted uranium in missiles caused more birth defects in Fallujah than occurred from the atomic bombs dropped on Japan in WW2. And then they start fussing about abortion to make themselves look moral.
He describes behaviors of people he’s decided are mentally ill, clearly is so brainwashed he wouldn’t know how much those behaviors are from iatrogenic damage, how much those people’s lives would have been improved if the programs that the mental health system doesn’t allow and are more cost effective would have been implimented, and which do correlate with recovery rather than with the spike in mental illness, and then he talks about living in dignity is something you can force on people with the mental health system……
Giving the power to an industry which recently has had to pay more than 6 billion dollars for the false advertising of bipolar meds, whose treatment scientifically causes the very thing it is said to allegedly treat which is a chemical imbalance, that correlates with a spike in the occurrence of what it is said to heal (a mental illness), and that if the scientific and statistical data were taken seriously and acknowledged for what they really are, forced institutionalization would be seen as causing illegal damage to a person’s brain and against the law….. this isn’t going to solve anything but cause more of the problem and then as has always been the case cause more demand for the solution that a cause rather than a solution.
Added to that, how many people do you have to have committed in order for it to add up to enough money that went the wrong way making things worse when it could have been invested in housing that they don’t have and aren’t going to get after “treatment?” How many of the people he says need to be picked up already have had “treatment” that didn’t work for them and that if it were put into housing and treatment that is non drug-company promoted but correlates with recovery would have left them more functional and with housing, and the city of New York with an idea of mental illness that creates understanding and the knowledge how to respond to such people that helps them rather than paranoia and more of the problem!?
2018 there were 5,419 beds in psychiatric hospitals. There are more than 60,000 homeless people sleeping in New York’s municipal shelter system each night in September, and those are just the ones that are counted in legit shelter, not those sleeping anywhere else. It’s downright silly to put more money into what doesn’t help those people, further more, he describes behaviors such as people talking to themselves, or air boxing, and other completely non violent behaviors, and then condones them being forced on treatments that would what truly happens with such treatments be acknowledged would be against the law, and the UN has decided they SHOULD be. What about the people promoting this epidemic, the psychiatrists forcing people on treatments that shorten their life, disable them, take away their civil liberties to vie for something that correlates more with recovery, the drug companies, the wall street tycoons that bankrupt whole countries and start wars playing money games, he doesn’t mention their behavior at all but promotes stigma against non violent people that really in ways only disturb others who don’t want to see society can do that to people. “Come on lets do something positive and pick them up and force more of the treatment on them that correlates with their numbers increasing rather than recovery….” Added to this he was a police man for more than 20 years: how oblivious does one have to be to see that arresting people and forcing them into a system that statistically makes things worse isn’t going to be any different when you are advocating for it from the outside.
I’m totally speechless when I read stuff like this. Would the world care to see what goes on in such people’s lives, what kind of humanity is lost defining what has happened in their lives as a mental illness, akin to saying if you have been bullied, physically assaulted or worked so hard you have wounds and bruises that there’s something wrong with your body, only in psychiatry they can’t and haven’t found the physical component other than what their treatments do: would the world care about such stuff there might be a different philosophy regarding how people understand each other and what’s considered functional, and that might actually promote enough human understanding of trauma in a form that is quite non violent compared with how it rears its head in those starting wars, causing famine, degrading the mother earth, promoting ingrained misunderstanding between different cultures and the rest. And would the world care to understand those that they simply find disruptive or disturbing but basically are non violent, it might stop the worse stuff. I don’t see that promoting asylums, wars, jails and the rest has been working…..
You’re right Richard, it’s “wonderful,”
Same as the drug companies have uncovered whole fields, terraces and valleys of otherwise undiscovered mental illnesses, thanks to their epidemic, also conjuring treatments for that and the other biological problems occurring; Bezos and Tesla (his name escapes me… oh yeah Musk, like that perfume) have uncovered whole swathes of dysfunctional behavior known as homelessness and other factions of such thanks to their economic trends. Soon the whole planet will become an asylum, the ones with enough $$$$$$ will take off to other planets https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/jeff-bezos-foresees-trillion-people-living-millions-space-colonies-here-ncna1006036 to echo the White flight of the 60s and 70s. JUST half a century later….. Whoever has enough $$$$$$ takes off to…..
I took a walk through a patch of forest near by, noticed tents and improvised encampment attempts, and then all of the trash. Picked up two recyclables, and went to a nearby store where I mentioned needing two trucks to pick up all of the trash, and calling the local jail: “Could you have the convicts come over and pick up all of the trash in the forest? I know….. some of them will escape but the real criminals are in the military and the police killing people…..” didn’t even mention the court system or the jails, actually, or even asylums. Did mention how homeless people were dotted along a nearby hill up towards where the railroad runs, and how I recently ran into an Angel Amongst us (13.2), who I first thought was homeless. It was kind of funny, they couldn’t wake him up, not knowing that it’s like trying to move a mountain, which exists because of other rules than man with his desire to “change” things or control them. And how I couldn’t tell “whoever” was making an attempt at waking him up what that was, which I didn’t realize at the time, I simply had asked whether they couldn’t just leave him alone, as he was hurting no one, etc….. I couldn’t even show empathy towards the angel without receiving discriminatory evaluation that was quite off, let alone….
Life is crazy, if you think it’s sane you truly aren’t paying attention….
I have taken what Thomas has shared, and tried to fill in explanations would anyone want to gain perspective that might be missing is one so inclined to continue reading. It may help them. I want to thank Thomas for sharing, and must also point out that any sarcasm used in these attempts at possible explanation are there to possibly allow for perspective that might occur, and are not a personal attack on anyone, nor are they to ridicule, they are an attempt at promoting perspective on issues and ideology that might otherwise be missing.
The result of taking different statements and trying to explain the underlying generators of thought from here:
“According to the new study, that gene may just be CDH2, should that gene mutate.
CDH2 is a gene that encodes N-cadherin, which is responsible for helping in brain synapse activity and formation. A mutation in CDH2, however, alters this activity. This, in turn, impacts molecular pathways and dopamine levels in two specific brain structures: the ventral midbrain and the prefrontal cortex, both of which are involved in ADHD.
Further studies have been initiated by the Birk team at BGUās National Institute for Biotechnology in the Negev (NIBN).
ADHD is complex and researchers are beginning to zero in on the areas of the brain most responsible for the condition. There is a consensus that the symptoms are real and they can and do cause great injury.”
I will now proceed to take separate statements and proceed with possible modes of perspective.
“According to the new study, that gene may just be CDH2, should that gene mutate.”
This is:
“According to the new study” How many prior studies failed need not be mentioned because we continue with the expression: “that gene may just be” the word “may” denoting potential, no matter how much we have failed in this genre of pursuit (it denotes how we have opened up our potential of insistent pursuit quite a bit, although we stick to what’s considered during these times scientific, for example one should not suggest that it might be whether one says a number of Saint Mary’s, does the rosary, recites incantations, repeats mantras or such even if such non-mainstream approaches could illicit more recovery; sacrificing goats or virgins remains completely not condoned when out of mainstream doctrines) but we adhere to mainstream biological ideology so we mention: “CDH2, should that gene mutate” and when that gene research doesn’t pan out, since up to this time we have tried numerous connections which sadly only remain connections we find compelling in our pursuit, it is likely and to be heralded that we will list that we have discovered our first possible link once more regarding another connection, should this well meant endeavor fail, because fortunately there is quite a prolific array of dna connections….
“CDH2 is a gene that encodes N-cadherin, which is responsible for helping in brain synapse activity and formation. A mutation in CDH2, however, alters this activity. This, in turn, impacts molecular pathways and dopamine levels in two specific brain structures: the ventral midbrain and the prefrontal cortex, both of which are involved in ADHD.”
That is:
“CDH2 is a gene that encodes N-cadherin, which is responsible for helping in brain synapse activity and formation. A mutation in CDH2, however, alters this activity.” Although any mutation in any gene can effect the expression of said gene, and mutations can occur anywhere within the strands of DNA, one must list this when one in endeavoring to make headway is suspecting an activity that hasn’t been proven, this again denotes and illicits the necessary belief and comfort that science is involved, one must again not mention above listed non-mainstream beliefs, as we continue with “This, in turn, impacts molecular pathways and dopamine levels in two specific brain structures: the ventral midbrain and the prefrontal cortex, both of which are involved in ADHD.” This hasn’t been proven, how could it be when it is only suspected, but it promotes necessary belief in science and that we endeavor to follow it in making headway.
“ADHD is complex and researchers are beginning to zero in on the areas of the brain most responsible for the condition. There is a consensus that the symptoms are real and they can and do cause great injury.”
That is:
“ADHD is complex and researchers are beginning to zero in on the areas of the brain most responsible for the condition.” Note the use of the expression “beginning to zero in,” and then how we make references to the brain in order to maintain scientific iedology, this in contrast to years past when the sanctity of reformed thinking thus deemed as sanity was determined regarding whether someone repeated said doctrines of the church (whether this made any sense to them or not, certainly would they question it rather than repeat it was questionable), we are talking about sanity not the outdated doctrine of whether one is demon possessed or not, this is the age of science and objective materialism, one must use appropriate terminology when making such statements as: “There is a consensus that the symptoms are real and they can and do cause great injury.” which is stated to emphasize that there is a problem, which we have detailed in that it “may be” because of something that goes along with a scientific approach.
This all in order, we should get funding: governmental and good will where it is considered a tax write-off. So we have already stated:
“Further studies have been initiated by the Birk team at BGUās National Institute for Biotechnology in the Negev (NIBN).” This in contrast to the whole school of disturbed ones who can’t take the trouble to filter their expression into appropriate scientific modelling (this may take some education), and sadly complain when our so conscientious methods are not to their liking, as they disregard are certainty that although things may seem to fall apart and seem difficult, although we have been accused of causing an epidemic ( was the great depression an epidemic, or did people not know how to handle their money and blame it on the banks? ); and although they have given up on us, we deserve this funding to continue, for we herald science.
“job job” if you are truly interested in healing, what difference does it make as to what solves the problem or what the problem is listed as? Are you interested in a solution? In recovery?
boans how are you doing? I’m sorry I read how you expressed feeling rather put out that your issues regarding how falsely you were labeled and put in the mental health system weren’t more acknowledged. So many of us have had this. I haven’t experienced anyone being committed without there being a plethora of lies (also even when someone puts themselves in voluntarily, they know how to exaggerate), and then there’s cases like yours where someone is spiked (or who is the guy that was on Charlie Rose and also actually advised families to turn over the furniture when they wanted a family member committed, to make it look like they were violent), added to that how often when the initial interim of “symptoms” being suppressed by psychiatric drugs and further problems occurring because of the drugs that then instead of acknowledging the problem because of the drugs it’s denied, whether this is spiking or not; or how much FDA approved stuff is spiking, actually, when said commodity makes too much money for the effects to be reported. And people are absolutely crazy when they think someone is “crazy,” how paranoid and often devious they respond. As if there’s such a danger they don’t even have to follow legal protocol, make up stuff, lie, and then beyond that if it was held to the letter asylums wouldn’t be legal, given the true science of the damage psychiatric drugs do to the brain, let alone statistically the result to society….
I think that with the older Quaker asylums that Whitaker talks about in his books, where there was recovery before the bio-chemical model usurped the idea of asylums, those places helped, as do Healing Homes of Finland, Soteria House and others. Of course there are people that were helped by psychiatry and being committed to a “modern” asylum, but how much is that avoiding what the symptoms are expressing, and finding ways of finding stability by being assimilated? There’s a difference between dressing oneself up to be normal and sanity. The sad part is that people lose their spirit the way they have to dress themselves up just to not get points against them from the system.
I’ve never been committed this incarnation, although “Nijinsky” who “died 1950 was, but my heart goes out to anyone who has. I think any of you who have been through that are amazing that you still survive. Please just do that! Survive, Enjoy life as much as you can, without anyone making your feel differently about it.
Some of the responses here by people advocating for all of that, I simply freeze up, the level of fundamentalist fantasy going on. Indoctrinated publicity catch phrases used to dismiss scientific and statistical data. Science becomes scientism, and morality become moralism. When someone is such a soldier to help others that in supposedly doing so they need to ignore what the true effects are……
One has to deal with machinery of thought in a system telling you how to think, machinery that’s not working in order to not be abused more, but you can’t point out what’s wrong with the machinery!?
Who is the doctor and who is the healer? The patient or…..
“job job” When you give someone a drug that causes the behavior that you label as a disease and someone points out that what YOU label as a disease comes from the drug then because they point out cause and effect they denied that the disease exists? Are you interested in recovery or just have the right to labeling people as being diseased? However things are “labeled.”
“job job,” you didn’t know that drugs could and have caused the very condition labeled as OCD? Do you care to be honest enough about caring that what you label as a disease goes away when those medications are stopped? You labeled it a disease, you say drugs heal it, but when it’s clear drugs cause it and its pointed out clearly with scientific evidence regarding how said drugs effect the brain, then what!? Do you care about healing or just that you have the right and the ability to call it a disease, and when someone points out a solution that doesn’t support your method, suddenly there’s something wrong because you can say they’re not calling it a disease.
And psychiatric drugs correlate with an extreme spike in the occurrence of the diseases, does this mean that anyone pointing this out is saying that those aren’t diseases when alternative method don’t correlate with the spike?
Steve clearly pointed out the correlation between behaviors and observation. You instead label something as a disease in order to create such concern and/or alarm that you can tack on treatments and ignore statistically the results.
You stated this, earlier from here https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/11/growing-good-mental-health-choice-theory/#comment-203002: “Millions find relief from terrible suffering due to the care of these doctors and the drugs developed by the pharmaceutical industry. As Nathan says, thereās risk in everything. Discuss those tormented souls who perished under the best efforts of therapists who refused drug treatment. Why not mention them, Robert? ”
Statistically the drug companies method correlates with a spike in the disease, if it’s proven that drugs can cause OCD are YOU going to acknowledge the source!?
And then this statement: “Discuss those tormented souls who perished under the best efforts of therapists who refused drug treatment. Why not mention them, Robert?” When drug treatments work for some people, but statistically have caused more of the problem you think you can decide that souls who perished receiving no drug treatment would have fared better. Then you mention therapists who supposedly refused drug treatment. What’s true is that anyone has the choice to take drug treatment or not. But that’s not the case for people who do not want a drug treatment, if you are going to talk about what’s refused and what isn’t. That could be the case that drugs could help someone, but there’s no correlation or proof there that the reason they suffered or perished is because they weren’t given drug treatments, in fact statistically it’s the opposite. There’s also the spike in mass shootings while anti-depressants have been forced to have the warning label stating they can cause such behavior. But that only occurred after it was going on for years, the drug companies suppressed that.
Is it OK that anyone points out cause and effect there, or are they then not calling it a disease, because anywhere it occurred without drugs means drugs are the answer, although the drugs actually correlate statistically with more of the problem!?
And the drug companies with all of their clout, money advertising abilities, there’s question regarding the finances of this site because it has a fraction of 1% of such finances? So that’s also suspect, apparently. From you: “Why not mention the profits you make from your books? Your speaking engagements, from this your subsidized advertising resource, funded by many who canāt afford it. Oh no! Not you. No trace of of anything impure about you.”
When bankers bankrupt a country, or an Industry creates more of the problem it says it’s eradicating with its treatment; and yet an innocent old lady with a house full of stuff but hurting no one, and also has accumulated cats, she then has OCD!?
Where is the problem, and again, if you are going to look for a solution, you might try to avoid the treatment correlating in the spike, either that or you might understand the lady with the cats better (possibly)…… if you ever get so far as to be “OCD,” in the sense that you understand the lady, who really in comparison is hurting no one…..
And then we have the bankers to understand, if you could give us any insight, that would be helpful. Truly…. No joke……Any insight at all might be helpful…..
It also doesn’t say anything, if there’s consistent correlation. Which there isn’t here. If you hurt yourself and have a scar, and this is consistent, that doesn’t mean that the scar is a chemical imbalance, not even when the scar hurts. To alleviate the pain (that way you can repeat what caused the scar, possible, and blame it on the scar), this does what?
Your abuser isn’t hurting you
Thou shalt not be sad
Tom Shapiro: When you had your problems with your ankle, and the doctor didn’t fix it, did he tell you that the reason your ankle didn’t get better was because you were non compliant to treatment, even when you noticed it wasn’t getting better? Because that IS the case with MANY people who have had to deal with a psychiatrist and their chemical imbalance theories. Further more, in psychiatry if you don’t want any more treatment, and you have told them that it’s getting worse, they can force you on more, and say that the reason the problem is getting worse is that you need more treatment. Did this happen with your ankle? Were you forced on more of the treatment that you say botched your ankle so badly you couldn’t play pro football, and not allowed any other choice? I’m just mentioning choice also, not whether you chose to continue with whatever treatment. Were you arrested from your home and imprisoned in a hospital when you showed signs that the treatment didn’t work, after having gotten away from it? Was this continued even when it disabled your life, even when you weren’t able to function at work, even when multiple other medical issues started cropping up that scientific data shows is from the treatment? And when you tried to point out with clear evidence that statistically the treatment you were forced on correlates with an extreme spike in the problem, were you told that you were a danger to yourself or others because you were non compliant with treatment? Because that is the case with many people who have been forced on psychiatric treatment (read Whitaker’s books, and others such as Moncrieff).
What YOU are saying is that people who actually feel they should have the right to say no, this isn’t working; or I’m interested in other treatments that correlate (read Whitaker’s works) with more recovery: you are saying that those people are speaking against doctors, and insult you because why?
You speak of people doing well because of psychiatry. I’m not aware that they aren’t allowed to tell their story in mainstream media. Do you think this site is mainstream media? Is there something wrong with a group of people who are doing well because they got away from psychiatry and its controls on their life who have the temerity to point out how when they stopped doing what psychiatry said was necessary they could function again? Is there something wrong with the fact that when they got away from controls psychiatry wanted on their life that they could function again? How is that insulting to you for them to tell their story? This is insulting to you because they survived, have a life, and want to speak freely how that happened?
If there’s clear statistical evidence that other methods work, or simply that the one that’s being forced on anyone isn’t, people advocating for the right to make their own choice are insulting you? And why is this? Because you lost your ability to play pro football because of a doctor but didn’t lose faith in the medical profession?
Whitaker doesn’t at all speak against people that say they have been helped by psychiatry. He doesn’t do what you are doing, and say that when they tell their story they are speaking against the clear evidence he puts forth regarding those that haven’t been helped by psychiatry, and who aren’t allowed to tell their story.
Just to be clear: in fact I wonder whether I should clearly state that I was not promoting the idea that giving people surgery to reduce their hearing would help with anxiety.
Before expenses paid, and without scientific or statistical data beyond market value publicity:
No kidding. I think that the same goes when a famous person says they like a certain drug, or make out it’s part of their “ambiance” or what makes them so wonderful etc…..
You could probably do the same study, and have different people recommend certain drugs (regardless of their efficacy) compared to just a “nobody,” and see the same difference, or how when a cheaply made commodity from a sweat shop can sell for next to nothing at any of the stores with dollar attached (family dollar, dollar tree, is there a dollar bazaar store?), but when Kim Kardashian or Suzanne Summers has their name on it then how much more can it be sold for because of the added celebrity varnish-image-aura?
Here is a “time warp” or portal I was talking about. It’s maybe just an example of how one can find resolve simply with art. Beyond time and measure. I was a bit distressed for several reasons this weekend, and beyond that Thursday something spiritual happened that again leaves me in a place that would I talk about it, which I feel impelled to do, I could be seen as “crazy,” of just people’s programming kicks in and I feel their resistance, but then Friday I had a therapy session, and to have something to talk about also, I played with part of this concerto, which I mentioned already. This is that portal: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mTa4hubM2dBBXBE1346NwnA9cyU8BsAv/view?usp=sharing Also that concerto was written when Mozart was 21, actually, not 17…..
Topher, I thought the same things before reading the article. And then this sentence: “After eligibility requirements were met, the participants were interviewed by a study clinician at one of the three hospitals on the East Coast of the United States.”
(!?) I’m not under the impression that clinicians from hospitals regarding how they evaluate anxiety is helping one way or the other, other than it seems to be more of a problem. How much are they causing paranoia regarding anxiety, and anyone wanting to dowse what otherwise might function to point out stuff that’s uncomfortable to the status quote, they get points for then “not” being anxious? What is going on when people want to dowse anxiety rather than feel it to see why it’s there, and how much is simply pushing it away the problem that causes the discomfort rather than the anxiety itself? What does this say regarding the results of these interviews? Is this the same as people deciding you’re going to Heaven if you park yourself in church every so often, or repeat said doctrines? The ones going to church show signs they will go to “Heaven” because they are less anxious about it? They get above a 4. It’s not listed how they determine what anxiety above 4 is. What does that have to do with deadened feelings or senses to what’s going on that might cause needed anxiety so one is aware of it? Or does mindfulness also cause in the end serotonin sluggishness like anti-depressants have been proven to? Or the fluctuating from too much to not enough within a period of initiation of the drug, and in the end less serotonin, which then again increases exponentially would the drug be stopped? If you test a bunch of people regarding their reaction when an alarm goes off, and there’s a group that really just HATE the alarm, would giving those people ear muffs have proven that they reduce anxiety, and you can just ignore WHY the alarm went off? And having hospital personal make these evaluations regarding the efficacy of the ears muffs it this legitimate science?
And as Steve mentioned one of the things regarded as reducing “anxiety” has a few more side effects than ear muffs?
And will that relieve the “anxiety” of the hospital personal to know these side effects are treatable (or rather effects, I don’t know whether an anti-anxiety drug causing “psychosis” or “bipolar” is really just a side effect or basically an effect) where as mindfulness, if it’s liked might lure people away from medical treatment and thus something leaning towards alternatives is seen as indifference rather than a lessening of anxiety…..
I might be over-interpreting and exaggerating a bit…..
Maybe I should try some mindfulness to relieve that…..
Kate L I’m sorry if I confused you, because I notice now that I said I was answering your question, but really was responding to Nancy. I had gotten your names confused. And sorry I hadn’t even read your posts in this thread, although I have in others and completely empathize with what you have to go through with this horrible diagnosis. It can be like the other diagnosis, mean spirited criticism or down right hate speech. Kate, I wish I could hug you, be there for you every day so you didn’t feel abandoned in expressing that you’re human, and this [email protected]#[email protected](*)T goes on regarding the mental health system. We are supposed to be diseased, but what I’ve noticed with all my friends in the mental health system, the ones I spent time with, who have been disenfranchised and disabled is that they don’t judge you for all your “weird” supposedly dysfunctional behavior, and the interactions instead are human. I think it maybe even becomes dangerous do I think I need friends who are “functional,” because really this society isn’t. We aren’t little androids walking around programmed by society giving us rewards when we follow the patterns of you are a good boy or girl and deserve to walk around in the machinery of image arrogance that you have been assimilated and there’s something wrong with those who haven’t. Is not being assimilated really a loss? Is it a loss to let go of wanting such “functional” friends or such a life? Here’s something, years ago, I composed and performed, I was on facebook at that time (am again, but have taken a break in between) and a group of us within the alternative movement regarding mental health practice were trying to help a girl with BPD, and I found this music playing through my mind, consequently, and this piece came of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxyjGyzfFGY
And seriously Nancy what Same was maybe trying to say. With emotions you touch into a whole other world, a world that one might even argue remains intangible to another part of the self wanting to define things, and wanting to have answers, and wanting to be in control.
I’m a musician-artist, have written a few novels, even indulged in studying nutrition to such a degree I could contradict your statement that we know how to take care of our teeth. You’ve also contradicted it yourself below, so we’re in the same ball park, and you were just using that as an example regarding where effort is put. Adding to what you stated, I don’t know why it isn’t basic care for one’s teeth to know about phytic acid, and how it affects the health of teeth, as well as that of your guts. What Weston A. Price discovered in his investigations of indigenous cultures.
Anyhow, past that digression, emotions are things that in art defy logic in a way, and what a society thinks gives form to it. And in music for example, what’s called Jazz theory has a resonance with the overtone series that allows just a bit more room for emotions than traditional Western theory. And it’s the “poor” black slaves who started such science, actually. It’s like the conservatories of the planet still have to catch up. I just yesterday, before my “therapy” session was playing around with a melody that comes out in a Mozart Cadenza to a concerto he wrote when he was 17. But in transposing it to play around with it I found I was giving it that resonance. Harmonizing it so it resonated with the overtone series just a bit more (Western harmony does this but not as exactly). I first just thought that would make a nice song, and have a beginning for that. But I was just laying in the bath retransposing it to where it is in the cadenza, that whole beginning and it fits perfectly in the cadenza, first the more scientific resonant, and then the same melody back into the custom of the time then. I’ve actually written cadenza’s for a couple of Mozart concertos and done that, but haven’t fit an extra place in the any of the ones in existence till now. It really just feels like a portal for angels amongst us, which I’ve encountered as told in Hebrews, also. It’s simply an incredible spiritual matrix, from another dimension, more germinal to how we create life, just by letting it happen. And art does that, all art forms, they open us up to how everything in life is beautiful, and it’s simply that feeling that became a melody, but it didn’t even have to be because something was consciously felt it simply gives room for that dimension where feelings do stuff our conscious mind would dismiss, for it perhaps remains intangible to it.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t do what you do. To ask the magical questions, that’s just part of it. But there’s another gear, maybe. It’s like what I’ve experienced regarding angels amongst us, they just are there from a whole other matrix of interactions. Thinking you have control of that is sort of like thinking you can move a mountain. Now, some people might argue with me, but I don’t think if man with all of his machinery started deciding where mountains should be (or the oceans or forests, or plateaus, or what color the sky should be or whether fish should have fins or not) I don’t think they’d get it right. I think the mountain is going to be there for another reason that our mind deciding why it should, and that expands potential, maybe.
That’s all, it’s just another gear. If I’m writing a piece of music I don’t usually have a connection with the emotions beforehand, it’s more giving room for the ability. It’s only once this happened that I can think of, or twice come to think now. There was a friend of Mozart, the one soft point in his last years (and this WASN’T his wife), a piano student. And I came upon someone who I thought was this friend, and I think it was when it dawned on me, and out of nowhere a friend of mine (a lady that was ALSO supposed to be “crazy” and this has happened with another “crazy” friend as well), she called me up because I wanted to ask her, which I had been thinking to do, whether she picked up that this was a soul connection, and she knew the color of his hair, and she had called with I think more than serendipity. Then I must have hung up the phone, and started hearing a melody in my mind and in working this melody out on the piano I sat there finding myself weeping so hard that my FACE hurt. Just WEEPING! And it was nothing perhaps but the music letting that out, nothing more, not even thinking about what it meant. It’s even like with trauma, to feel it and trust the Universe to heal it. Not judging others, not even trying to figure out what went wrong in the life of the person who could be listed as the abuser, but simply feeling it, and trusting the Universe. Perhaps what Lao-Tzu called non-attachment.
I wanted to say it’s like a time warp at first (but I was told I would loose you, who ever is trying to figure out what I’m going on about), like in the cadenza phrase I added from this time, to the concerto that when I talked with Mozart’s mother through a medium and mentioned it she said she remembered me playing it, and it was like a dream. Can spirits dream, what is the unconscious, can they manifest in our dimension say as why might in their while we dream?
That’s “Crazy” but maybe emotions and the sub or unconscious have that connection with the Universe, and can resonate with stuff we would think is impossible did we decided we knew what they feelings were for.
Kate, in response to your question. I have had to recently take a step with such feelings, also with anger, that certain situations, when they make me feel that way, that there’s no loss in simply staying away from them. This actually regarding a rather fundamentalist approach that I’m causing those feelings not the situation. But this way if I see the situation as causing the feelings, then I end up not seeing the situation as causing the feelings, because I stay away from it. A different brand of forgiveness than staying in the situation. Life itself when you take yourself out of danger, the enjoyment of it teaches forgiveness. That’s also how it’s designed I think and why we have such amazing things to enjoy. Even the slightest thing that we might overlook thinking we have to have some fight that has to be won or it’s necessary for us to label ourselves as victim and see ourselves as hurt. But then there’s the other side of that as well, if you acknowledge that then maybe you allow yourself to see that you can and want to get out of such a situation. the mind also disassociates for such reasons. And you have the whole array of stuff as in multiple personalities and other escapes that can be seen as diseases. But forgiving and getting out of a situation are the same and go along with seeing you’re responsible for how you feel. And you give room for the change that can take place on “both” sides. There’s also the other side of it, when I read your remarks towards jobjob and the situations you have encountered, what people have had to deal with that makes me want to cry. My cheeks get pushed down and start puffing out, my eyes water. Then I might have a different reaction, and try to stick up for such people. (this is just a quick response)
Job job: Your whole argument for the very careful meticulous research Robert Whittaker has done, research whose integrity has been widely honored and even if it hadn’t stands for the total honesty there, your whole argument against it is that it’s a reach. And I’m sorry as much as you’re trying to defend your profession along with your handle as job job, that’s not really a valid debate point. What is this meant to depict that something is a reach? In any society where there is an accepted belief which is challenged, that challenge is going to seem as a reach. that in no way means that the challenge is not valid. Beyond that you can’t dismiss nor have you excused the mounting numbers of disability and complications with people who have acquired a chemical imbalanced from the medications, an imbalance that has not been proven to exist because of a disease although the medications have been proven to cause exactly that; and this parallels the current spike since the implementation of the chemical imbalance theory. The chemical imbalance theory creates exactly what it is said to cure and that is a chemical imbalance because of the medications while the disease itself has not been proven to be caused by chemical imbalance? In fact what is called a chemical imbalance from a biological disease that’s either blamed on environment or genetics or behavior the one instance that there’s concrete proof of any of that coming from a chemical imbalance is from the medications. That is not a reach that is irrational that is based on concrete statistics regarding the currents of what’s labeled us as mental illness as well as concrete science regarding the affect of the medications on the brain. Is ignoring all of that helping psychiatry and if that is the case how does that characterize psychiatry itself which Robert Whittaker is not doing, psychiatry itself is doing that, Robert Whitaker simply lists accurate scientific and statistical data. You also actually in your statements contradict your basic premise because you even have to admit that Robert Whitaker says that for some people the medications can have short-term effect and for some long-term effect. This you state after implying that he doesn’t care about all the people that it has helped. In the meantime the numbers of people who according to his well-grounded research have been hurt is multiple times greater. And I’m sorry again but the way you respond to Robert Whittaker and and imply that you know what is going on with him what his intentions are what is he is hiding when you have stated that you are a professional psychiatrist and thus it is within your means to use diagnosis to actually maintain what is going on with another person someone that could be extremely vulnerable also to everything that the medications could do to them what’s the iotrogenic problems but then there’s the simple fact of the interpretations and presumptions you make. I see that Robert Whitaker has very clearly explained that he gets no money from the speaking engagements and also how that sits with his books. And I can’t really speak for this site but I would assume that the reason it is not allowed for people on this site to be attacked with personal attacks which is what you just displayed against Robert Whittaker, but I can see that for people who have already been damaged by psychiatric treatment, who haven’t been allowed to state how the treatment is affecting them without being accused of being non-compliant, who have had treatment forced on them who have had to deal with interpretations on them that weren’t valid didn’t work for them made everything worse took away their personal freedoms and disabled their life, then yes I can see that for them to suffer further personal attacks could be highly detrimental and it is better that such behavior is not allowed towards the people here on this site. However Steve himself has stated that differences of opinion are allowed and you’re allowed to attack ideas but not people.
I guess I’m trying to elucidate this point you made. And the point is completely valid, because that means a client is part of the process, not that they have been labeled a certain way, and the mental health worker is the one deciding how they should change. It’s the clients place to decide what’s going on with them: “When working with a client, I believe that professionals should share their definition, ask clients to define it for themselves. Then together you work as a team for the same target and goal.”
I have to state that in my experience, I knew I was having episodes in my life where I myself didn’t even understand the “psychosis.” The very desire to get that to stop in a way could get in the way of understanding. I never would have said that I saw it as a disease, and I needed to eradicate it, but still there was that extreme push to WANT it to stop, even to think that support from a therapist would get me to feel good about myself enough to get it to stop, but I had no idea really that I lacked insight into what I thought was interfering with my life, and that experience to gain insight only came from not judging it beyond what I already myself wasn’t doing. I wasn’t judging it already, but even analyzing it, even as trauma where it came from that didn’t give me insight into the the stuff of it that was involved with life itself completely, and that involved impossible things like a miracle healing, which became quite normal rather than impossible. I’m not saying you have to experience a miracle healing to understand psychosis at all, or even that you should be interested in that. That’s my experience, I’m just trying to share part of it. There were of course behaviors involved/ I didn’t know how much drinking too much coffee was contributing, and having stopped that I didn’t know that a dis-inhibiting spurt to just do things more impulsively that that also was an escape from what you might call left brained activity, the part of the mind maybe setting up these goals and targets. What actually surprised me, was that in the end how sane the “psychosis” actually was in areas incredibly sane. There was the dis-inhibition of being petty at times, buying in social values and exaggerating them to such a degree that one could in the end only see to get away from such desires. Akin to when something (a belief) starts to loosen and and before detaching it actually shows how warped it was or indoctrinated from peer pressure and insecurity taking on social norms or needing to be critical. But then there were also truly spiritual insights cloaked in symbolism, or thoughts that just popped into my mind out of nowhere that contained information regarding actual themes in life going on, actual germinal elements that with the help of a healer I could clearly see weren’t “crazy” at all. In fact they were from beyond time, or beyond linear time because they contained connections and a theme regarding someone I hadn’t run into yet, and this was involved with what might be called a physical miracle. Without “psychosis” that theme might not have acquired the freedom to express itself, even thought it wasn’t worked out and I expressed a few things that were symbolic, which I knew the next day were, but that was too late. I was already labeled as someone non-reality-based and could be a danger, even insinuating I could become violent, and a whole list of other things which were only paranoid suspicions of a social worker (thankfully only teaching yoga at a parks and recreation class and not in control of whether I was committed or not) the whole list of other things which weren’t going on at all, but were alarmist paranoid discriminatory suspicions akin to what school children make up about someone who is just “weird” all of that [the paranoia] was considered to be going on, just because I expressed some stuff that wasn’t understood. Label a person “psychotic” and you can add on a whole list of stuff. That’s of course quite traumatizing although I had seen this happen to so many of my friends. In fact to be REAL clear regarding how UNTRUE the whole evaluation of “symptoms” is. During me simply trying to take a yoga class a very clear voice told me to stay away from this “teacher” to not even ask questions after class (I really was interested in yoga) and to just go there and leave. I knew I wasn’t doing anything that should be of concern, I had had it enough how people react just because they think you are weird, and didn’t follow that advice. But it WAS a very clear voice, as clear as one you hear on the outside from sound waves in the air. And so when this whole alarmist paranoia was in process, this “yoga teacher-social worker” said to a judge: “I know” and she sat up in her chair bobbing her head a bit: “I know, he doesn’t hear voices, he see things that aren’t there, it’s non-reality-based” I didn’t say anything regarding hearing voices or not, in fact she pretty much PROVED that hearing voices can be enlightening, and give extremely accurate information, although she just used it to denote symptoms of a mental illness. And over the years (quite a few 13 or so) I have come to learn that what I tried to express that she called “non-reality-based” was involved with leading towards a physical healing, which might be called a miracle, gave insights into past lifetimes and themes going on with another I hadn’t even met yet that also touched in with a miracle energy and the place of no time, or another dimension where time comes together to give meaning to life, and our belief system could be the germinal elements bringing such experience together, rather than it’s on the outside. I’m not even saying that should be anyone else’s experience, it was MINE. And it’s valid. Other people could have any number of other experiences having nothing to do with mine in content, but still pointing out perspective they simply didn’t know their behavior contained in it. So I did finally shed the fear of what I didn’t know was going on, and what was labeled as a disease, this was that after simply finding a couple of good therapists also, and beyond that a healer lady who is a true healer (was tested in a hospital when she noticed she could facilitate healing, tested because she wanted to know if she truly could help these vulnerable people that might be looking for metaphysical healing, and if she didn’t test to be able to she wouldn’t have started healing, she then in a hospital in Japan with thermal imagery and electrodes attached to her skull to see what kind of brain activity was going on got a cancerous tumor to disappear in ten minutes. Her brain activity also was that the left side of her brain actually was inactive And also was tested other times with the same manner of results). The healer lady has a sanctuary in virtual space where she simply says one should meditate twice a day for 20 minutes or once for 40. After the initial period of a couple of months the physical healing I was looking for got so much better it wasn’t bothering me, and I had to laugh with joy at things I could do I wasn’t able to before that.
That’s just ONE crazy things one can encounter. But trying not to be crazy rob you of an experience that will change your life. And life is meant to be LIVED. ALL OF IT! The stuff you loved and wanted to experience, and even the stuff you hated but impelled you into amazing things you didn’t know were there….. just because it went beyond your sanity filter…..
It’s a bit peculiar that mental health professionals come from more of an academic environment (usually), and I’m generalizing, but those who have been through what’s labeled as a “mental illness” or who have been labeled as lacking in Mental Health, or even themselves felt there was something wrong with them, would they have gained insight that doesn’t judge anymore responses that they didn’t understand, and gives them insight, this rather turns around the definitions of what’s Mentally Healthy or what isn’t.
That’s quite predominant in many fields concerning lived experience and academics, but in the mental health field it’s quite predominant.
It sounds like you really have helped people, that’s great, I’m sure you’ve helped people that otherwise might have been lost. Along with you there are those in the Mental Health field that have, you certainly state viewpoints that would help many if most people, although in general they may not be voiced at all. Just for someone to be able to state the medications aren’t working for them, and have a cogent response is quite progressive. But what if we are in a society that you get more points for being “immune” to the stuff that causes the symptoms of those that are labeled as not being mentally well, what if many of those symptoms if looked at differently come from people who simply can’t push away the feelings that something just isn’t right, that they are supposed to be happy with this society but it’s not working this way and they just can’t be happy anymore, what if fitting in and being “happy” just doesn’t work for them? And then you have the people that do know it’s not working for them, and instead of the trauma being acknowledged they are told their very human and vulnerable response to it is a disease?
Just to point out how the very terms involving judging a person’s mental state can become contradictory. Of course a person who is a good therapist will recognize when a person simply is out of the norm, and give room for that, or that they have experienced legitimate stuff that needs attention, and when acknowledged gives another viewpoint regarding society or themselves, a viewpoint that’s actually needed in society, would it survive? When an organism evolves to adapt to its environment it isn’t the whole general population that mutates, it’s only a few and they allow the organism or species to survive through evolution. It seems that what’s called the mental health system so often judges the very people that might have the perspective to be able to bring in the change that’s necessary for the whole population to actually gain insight into what’s really going on, and what’s healthy and what isn’t. Being “happy” to have adapted to the mob that isn’t flexible to change because that would otherwise cause problems,are those feelings a sign of mental problems or are they actually the germinal elements of insights that are actually needed in the society?
And it’s quite strange that so many people who have moved away from the standard mental health treatments, and who have gained such insight, that they aren’t acknowledged because they don’t promote the chemical imbalance theory. It’s in a way having people who have changed their diet from experience, changed their health or weight or any number of things, but if they aren’t going along with the academic teachings, they aren’t even considered as authorities that would help in mainstream nutritional counseling. When their problem is what encouraged them to look with open eyes, not censored by academics or accepted mainstream economic trends.
And in mental health the “symptoms” used to define illness or not aren’t even concrete, there is no real test for them in the sense that those doing the diagnosing even agree on them. Someone having difficulty fitting into a society, and the consequent symptoms, isn’t really a disease, nor is it a comment just on them.
Anyhow, thanks for your input Nancy, I just don’t want people to think they are “sick” because I know all of the extreme distress that goes with that, even trying to find a way to not feel that way, or behave that way, and in the end it was not judging the feelings or behaviors. Certainly when they were totally non violent. And then gaining insight in how I had reflexes towards escape I didn’t know existed, such as drinking too much coffee, and even when I stopped that it was the anxiety of slowing down my mind, simply out of insecurity; that stopped the “symptoms” but in reality even those “symptoms” allowed for a dis-inhibition where thoughts could come freely into my mind, or I wouldn’t judge things that I actually saw happen or experienced as impossible [and this is a WHOLE other conversation], and those thoughts were even in line with what might be called miracles (explained themes from other lifetimes when miracles happened, or one specific lifetime), and I experienced metaphysical things. Maybe I just had to allow my left brain to accept those things. If life has themes, and if it has meaning, that meaning and those themes express themselves in ways that are germinal elements for what we experience, not the other way around, and so such understanding remains a bit “non-reality-based” because it’s more objective than physical reality, which has remained the means used to judge what’s real and what isn’t. But thoughts are real. And art is real. And you might lose all of the symbolism going on with the emotions, and thoughts of the most severe “mental illnesses” such as “Schizophrenia,” would you call even those “symptoms” signs of a sick person. Maybe life has more mystery to it than to dismiss things not understood as non-reality-based? And I know from my own experiences that as soon as you go beyond certain boundaries of what’s considered reality based, or are just a bit different and weird, even actually interested in what it is to be human rather than what others think of you, that people are going to make up the most alarmist paranoia about you, and then think that that’s valid. That, along with fear of and alarmist judgements on the supposedly non-reality-based stuff that’s labeled as psychosis actually can be seen as very unhealthy mental behavior, but it’s pretty much standard for many mental health workers. “Psychosis” might be a way of escaping fitting in with a prevalent alarmist paranoia in society that’s considered “sane” or a consensual reality deportment, or a statistical based norm. Evolution hasn’t come from statistical based norms or consensual reality deportment, it comes from the few organisms that mutate away from that, I think.
My point actually was that a child that is going to end up diagnosed with a mental illness, although it may be completely true that being able to see how you’re in control of your own emotions, and that you can’t change the stuff around you, and as is stated here: “Choice Theory involves shifting from an external control psychology, the belief that our behavior (thoughts, feelings, actions and to a certain extent our physiology) is determined by outside forces, such as luck, circumstances and other people, to an internal control psychology, knowing we always have choices and understanding that we direct and are responsible for our choices and resulting consequences.” when you are dealing with people who never have been given the legroom to know how they feel, to start telling them they are responsible for what happens in their life this could be missing a whole step. I think you have to be able to know how you feel, I think you need to have the matrix of reflexes to engage with your own feelings before you can start knowing how to make decisions for yourself. Imagine telling a person who has never been allowed to express how they feel, that their very feelings of distress, anger, anxiety, sadness, all the rest, that they are there because of choices they’ve made, and that they are in control. In the meantime they may not even know why they feel that way, they may not have the reflexes to identify what it is that causes those feelings because every time they tried to express those feelings they were met with such a response that they disassociated, and so their whole response to begin with is to subconsciously push those feelings away to such an extent there’s no bridge to where they came from, or why they were there. What is it going to do to such a person to tell them they are in control of feelings, that depends on the choices they make, while that might yet again be another occurrence of those feelings being seen as something to avoid, to judge, to want to get rid of?
Just as forgiveness in a complete form can be getting out of a situation and then not judging the people you needed to get away from, trusting the Universe, enjoying life rather than looking to get badges for staying in the situation and being “forgiving,” feelings that are “bad” or that you don’t want could simply be feelings that you need to allow, because they’re there for a reason. Having a formula to make someone happy and have good mental wellness when that becomes yet another example of “this feeling is there because of my own choices, it’s my fault etc.” when in reality someone may not even know why they feel that feeling, they have had to disassociate from making such connections their whole life, and telling them it’s their own choices that they have such feelings, when the real choices that they never have been allowed to make remain beyond their matrix of understanding, this could only cause more stress in their life. They don’t know why they feel that way, they don’t know why the feeling is there, they need to feel that feeling just to gain insight into what they have been disassociating from their whole life, and the feeling is once again analyzed in a way to isolate it as on object to want or not to want rather than it’s just allowed, which would make room for the perspective that’s needed.
I’m sure that: Choice Theory Psychology has helped many people, and that it does wonderful things. But sometimes a feeling just has to be felt, and sometimes it’s better not to talk at all about good or bad mental wellness, because saying a person has bad mental wellness implies that they need to change or gives them a formula to change rather than being allowed to feel and express what’s just waiting to give them some insights that only such feelings can. Without looking to avoid them, to change them, to judge them as good or bad.
You don’t push happiness away. Why would someone judge other feelings before knowing what they express?
Thank you Robert Whitaker for your careful patient response.
There’s this paragraph:
“Unlike Beam, Whitaker doesnāt clearly address how the quality of psychiatric care is proportional to the resources allocated to it, and how our society ā not just psychiatry ā has often chosen not to care for the mentally ill properly. The anti-psychiatry movement has unsuccessfully lobbied to outlaw involuntary treatment in any circumstance ā even when schizophrenia impairs sufferersā judgment to the point where they reject all help and their illness makes them a threat to themselves or (rarely) others.”
I wonder if mentioning that the drug companies had to pay 6 billion dollars because of falsely advertising bipolar medications, hiding side effects, that this addresses the point already. Where does such money fit into where resources are allocated, when there’s even in the “review” talk of how ineffective those medications are. There’s no problem for a person with a diagnosis, and on disability to get 1000 dollars worth of psychiatric medications a month from their insurance, but for them to get the kind of help that’s more effective, or simply is effective, there’s hardly any money when it’s not related to the matrix of psychiatric medication; added to this such help is less costly than the medications which are more in collusion with the spike in mental illness than a lessening. Peaceful housing, activities that help bring comfort to the brain such as yoga, mindfulness training, art lessons, music lessons, acting lessons, resources to get in touch with nature, therapy that isn’t drug based, rehab facilities to help a person get off of psychiatric drugs that have caused a whole array of added on “medications” and diagnosis that logically could be seen to come from side effects of initial medications, and if there was integrity to honoring cause and effect such rehab facilities should at least be tried. And if they worked, which for many many people who have done it on their own it has shown to, then that again saves all of the 1000 dollars a month of supposedly necessary resources for the whole duration of their application (12,000 dollars a year) that the reviewer says aren’t being honored. So, in essence Robert Whitaker directly addresses exactly what the review says he doesn’t. What he doesn’t do is advocate for putting more money into what’s labeled as care while the implementation of such care correlates with the spike in the occurrence of the problem it is said to alleviate. Those are simple logical conclusions that when there is such a spike in mental illness which parallels the use of the chemical imbalance theory, that other methods should be tried, certainly if they are more cost effective. Instead you have the call for more resources allocated towards what statistically hasn’t panned out, while disqualifying funding resources that do correlate with recovery rather than the ideology of the unproven chemical imbalance theory.
I’m sorry, but I truly wonder whether such an analytical method truly helps regarding responses that are subconscious or unconscious responses. Feelings are subconscious, and trying by any means to first analyze them, then decide which ones are good and which ones are bad, and where they come from, this could be like taking a fish out of the water to see what it is, and you’ve killed the fish.
Emotions are made to be felt, deciding this isn’t a good emotion, and I want it to go away, and using the left side of the brain to develop strategy, even when you’ve accomplished this you might be worse off. Because the natural intelligence that comes with the emotion when felt, intelligence that’s also so subtle you can’t fit it into the calculations of the conscious mind, it’s more intertwined with life than that. Simply not pushing an emotion away, but allowing it can get rid of the discomfort that came from pushing it away, not the emotion itself.
I’ve had thoughts that would be labeled as schizophrenic happen, simple thoughts regarding themes in life that for one day bled into my conscious mind, like the kind of eidetic memory that say Tesla had. Visceral depictions of something inner, potential and symbolic of interactions that are impelling. The next day I realized that stuff I needed to be able to consciously relate to had superimposed in a way that could be seen as non-reality based, and even though I was COMPLETELY non-violent in contrast to those deciding I was some danger, it made no difference when I had the next day realized I was a bit off. Those thoughts then 13 years later pointed out so clearly things regarding life, and time, and what life is about, and how a miracle resonates with themes in life and touches upon others I hadn’t even met yet, that the whole idea that those thoughts needed to be seen as crazy, or stuff that comes from bad decisions on my part, or any of what “psychiatry” would come up with, such that even any analyses regarding whether they are reality based or not falls short.
And I’m sorry again, but the example of what mentally healthy is you list above can be seen as quite non reality based to anyone who every day has to deal with what you have even listed as going on in the asylum, and then further more outside of the asylum, which might have forced them into one. I’ve never been committed to an asylum during the incarnation this body has had so far, I’ve never been forced on or taken psychiatric drugs, but yet EVERY DAY I have to deal with SEVERE discrimination because of alarmist paranoia in society regarding how my mind works, when my brain is HEALTHY. I can only imagine what it’s like for those whose civil liberties were taken away from them who are surrounded by those who only see them as broken, diseased and flawed when they have logical and understandable reactions to trauma in life that they either can’t or don’t know how to respond to or express. And then have to deal with the chemical imbalance the MEDICATIONS have caused in their brain disabling it from natural functions, the whole while being told the untruth that the meds are necessary to treat exactly what they are causing instead, and even if they know these truths aren’t allowed to express them because they’d be seen as non compliant to treatment and forced on more. Somehow somebody with such a life isn’t going to fit into your analyses of whether they are mentally healthy or not, as little as those in a war zone, suffering extreme poverty, living in an autocratic regime or worse. Maybe they just need someone to listen to them so that they feel it’s OK to even feel any emotion, let alone analyze it as good or bad, what to do this about or not? Maybe the emotions THEMSELVES when allowed and simply given some legroom have an intelligence all their own and then solutions are found, rather than they already are analyzed before they are even given the space to be felt.
Emotions are meant to be felt. To once again be offered a whole school of how to make one “mentally well” can be like these drugs you say “People did experience temporary relief of their symptoms and upsets” when in reality you have to admit there was no true relief. And it’s simply discrimination in society in general. Women lack the ability to make rational decisions because they are emotional was even put forth as the reason they weren’t allowed to vote or have positions in government or religion. There’s this untrue concept that emotions are irrational. It’s simply wrong, and it could be that someone having an observably “happy” life with “emotional well being” in reality is maybe too sterile to feel the emotions of someone that’s actually experienced what’s going on in a society not quite as functional as its made out to be, and those emotions themselves when allowed have answers rather than deciding one is to find a means to turn them off, and then one is mentally healthy. Maybe such inhibiting isn’t mentally healthy, no matter how uncomfortable that may seem to the fantasy people have that they shouldn’t be feeling what they make strategies to avoid. No matter how disruptive or inappropriate it might seem to others when those emotions aren’t avoided and express themselves in whatever way is left for them to find an outlet.
Emotions exist to be felt, that’s why they exist, that’s what their purpose is, and they involve all manner of natural instincts with perspective and insights that one isn’t going to find deciding how to censor which ones one should be feeling and which ones one shouldn’t.
Brenda Schaeffer, you leave no clear reference as to what you feel is a snide remark. I was simply depicting what brainwashing can do, and how that can be related to the advertising that goes on with Capitalism for profit. With the washing, stuff gets so covered up that one doesn’t know what one is throwing out.
No, I don’t think that it is a snide remark when one is attempting to expose the push towards psychiatric treatment that forces drugs on people, when the drugs can be clearly pointed out with statistics to be interpreted to be in collusion with the spike in mass shootings and the spike in the occurrence of what is labeled as mental illnesses. That in contrast to the advertisements that they are needed to stop it. That was my simple depiction of brainwashing.
Mind Freedom, an organization that also promotes non violent activism, they had a hunger strike asking the drug companies in 2003 for proof of their chemical imbalance theory, they couldn’t do that: https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/ and because of the confidentiality implied with medical records, the information regarding psychiatric drugs and mass shootings remains hidden, often. Despite that, anti-depressants have a warning label that they can cause homicidal and suicidal thoughts. I happen to out of nowhere have had a conversation with a man on a bus who stated that he had a foster care facility close to where the Columbine shootings happened, and both the boys from that shooting would come to his foster care facility, play pool, and told how they had been bullied in school, how they went to the principle who sent them to the sheriff, who sent them to the principle, and nothing was done. The ring leader of the two boys also told how his medications had been changed to Luvox, and how he had been having hateful thoughts towards everyone (his teachers, friends, family, girlfriend etc.) and the doctor had told him to just keep taking the medications. That was a few weeks before the shootings. And the truth regarding such collusion was bought out by the drug companies, when a legal case was brought out. When people here on this site, expose such truths, they are preventing mass shootings, not making snide remarks causing them. There is in fact a whole congregation of people on this site that would know better than to tell that boy to just keep on taking medications that were having such a response from him, and THAT could have PREVENTED the shootings.
As Mind Freedom is a site promoting non violent resistance, I’ve been a protester against wars. I’ve also been in several situations where I could have been in extreme danger, but I knew how to de-escalate the situation, and still see the humanity in the other person. The very concept of understanding where another person is coming from, and certainly if they have legitimate trauma that needs to be acknowledged, rather than the symptoms of the expression of it turned off with psychiatric drugs (see the example I gave of the conversation on a bus), this has to go beyond: “this is the solution because that’s what we’re told.”
It’s easy to throw out a catch phrase that is supposed to resonate with a whole matrix of assumptions (those not promoting psychiatric drugs are causing mass shootings) and see their attempt to describe how such brainwashing in advertising muddies the waters as a snide remark. But that [such categorizing] in itself may be a sign of not allowing thought, and trying to cover up anything deviating from such assumptions. Because one is trying to categorize a whole matrix of medley of responses without looking at the context. Muddying the waters.
Brenda Schaeffer, you leave no clear reference as to what you feel is a snide remark. I was simply depicting what brainwashing can do, and how that can be related to the advertising that goes on with Capitalism for profit. With the washing, stuff gets so covered up that one doesn’t know what one is throwing out.
No, I don’t think that it is a snide remark when one is attempting to expose the push towards psychiatric treatment that forces drugs on people, when the drugs can be clearly pointed out with statistics to be interpreted to be in collusion with the spike in mass shootings and the spike in the occurrence of what is labeled as mental illnesses. That in contrast to the advertisements that they are needed to stop it. That was my simple depiction of brainwashing.
Mind Freedom, an organization that also promotes non violent activism, they had a hunger strike asking the drug companies in 2003 for proof of their chemical imbalance theory, they couldn’t do that: https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/ and because of the confidentiality implied with medical records, the information regarding psychiatric drugs and mass shootings remains hidden, often. Despite that, anti-depressants have a warning label that they can cause homicidal and suicidal thoughts. I happen to out of nowhere have had a conversation with a man on a bus who stated that he had a foster care facility close to where the Columbine shootings happened, and both the boys from that shooting would come to his foster care facility, play pool, and told how they had been bullied in school, how they went to the principle who sent them to the sheriff, who sent them to the principle, and nothing was done. The ring leader of the two boys also told how his medications had been changed to Luvox, and how he had been having hateful thoughts towards everyone (his teachers, friends, family, girlfriend etc.) and the doctor had told him to just keep taking the medications. That was a few weeks before the shootings. And the truth regarding such collusion was bought out by the drug companies, when a legal case was brought out. When people here on this site, expose such truths, they are preventing mass shootings, not making snide remarks causing them. There is in fact a whole congregation of people on this site that would know better than to tell that boy to just keep on taking medications that were having such a response from him, and THAT could have PREVENTED the shootings.
As Mind Freedom is a site promoting non violent resistance, I’ve been a protester against wars. I’ve also been in several situations where I could have been in extreme danger, but I knew how to de-escalate the situation, and still see the humanity in the other person. The very concept of understanding where another person is coming from, and certainly if they have legitimate trauma that needs to be acknowledged, rather than the symptoms of the expression of it turned off with psychiatric drugs (see the example I gave of the conversation on a bus), this has to go beyond: “this is the solution because that’s what we’re told.”
It’s easy to throw out a catch phrase that is supposed to resonate with a whole matrix of assumptions (those not promoting psychiatric drugs are causing mass shootings) and see their attempt to describe how such brainwashing in advertising as a snide remark, but that in itself may be a sign of not allowing thought, and trying to cover up anything deviating from such assumptions. Because one is trying to categorize a whole matrix of medley of responses without looking at the context. Muddying the waters.
There is then a Brenda Schaeffer who maintains that falling in love with the wrong person and not being able to let go is like a chemical imbalance, and you will have withdrawal symptoms etc. Science shows that psychiatric drugs also cause chemical imbalance rather than treating it, and then there’s the rest addiction, withdrawal, side effects etc. And there are many on this site that would not promote taking psychiatric drugs to treat a chemical imbalance because the resonant scientific data says it does the opposite, it causes one. Same as the example of the Columbine shootings, thereās quite a bit of evidence that it made things worse…..
To label an attempt to expose that as snide behavior, this could mean that one would need to take account themselves what they have invested in as needing respect, being an authority, andā¦.
In regard to what causes mass shootingsā¦ā¦.
Thanks for writing this. I wish I could see and read what your mother left behind, that you say you can’t make much sense out of. Having been in such places myself, I might be able to touch upon the symbolism, and sort of fill in the gaps between what her soul was trying to say and how much they allowed her brain to resonate with it. A lot of stuff that seems to lack sense can end up meaning a lot more than what we’ve been programmed to pass as having meaning. And I find that kind of stuff fascinating.
Replying to Brenda Schaefer: If you haven’t found material on this site that answers all your “questions” with no, you haven’t looked enough at the material here. And no, although you insinuate they [your questions] are rhetorical, there are clear answers pointing out that this site doesn’t oppress differing views as you maintain. If you are going to ask a question, then let it be a real one, out of curiosity.
Richard I agree here. Even a person who has become so “Capitalist” that they lack the ability to empathize with those whose lives have been pilled and ruined economically by what fills theirs coffers, but yet they have had to adapt to a society that perpetuates the ideology that trauma, fear, coercion, the ability to intimidate and control through threats called deterrence is what you have to adapt to and obey to survive. I’m NOT saying that is always how it works, nor that Communism might not give such freedom beyond such, I’m just trying to make a point not to say that there’s only way way that would work.
From your statement here: “I donāt think you would be calling the socially unacceptable (and quite often self-defeating) behaviors that get labeled as āmental illness,ā ā āevil.ā
Are they not āadaptiveā behaviors to a very stressful and often traumatic world?”
You of course are referring to the fact that people who behave in a way that doesn’t give them points for fitting into the society that deems their behavior inappropriate, and in not adapting to that they are adapting to what lies beyond, because they can’t adapt to the confines of such a society and instead end up adapting to giving their wounds some space, some legroom, rather than being “functional.”
I’m perhaps taking it one step further that people who can’t express at all their trauma, they adapt to the society that rewards them for going along with the rewards of authoritarianism (even though they have lost their humanity to such a degree they don’t know what they are compromising themselves to, and in contrast to those whose behavior is labeled “inappropriate” rather than authoritarian, they have further cut themselves out of of being able to truly express their trauma. Which goes to show further the importance to allow that, to allow things deemed inappropriate etc. or self defeating, when this gives space or legroom to trauma that needs to be expressed, and that space might open up those gravitating towards authoritarianism to also be able to express their trauma rather than “adapting” to what their fear tells them “survival” is…… that might change things more that anything else.
When they have lost their soul and are trying to adapt out of fear.
But you say that: “Capitalism by its very nature AND design is built upon a hierarchical structure of unequal classes and inherent exploitation of one class over another.” One could argue that Communism does the same in ways, only rewarding those who go along with the program of what conceived of as being of good to the state. Capitalism might reward someone that does something completely against the beliefs of a society, would he be able to prove that it has value and convince others. It doesn’t have to first be approved of. And I’m NOT saying that Communism is built upon a hierarchical structure of unequal classes in contrast to Capitalism.
And you state that: “The working classes are NEVER paid the full value of the labor they create. They often live in the barest of subsistence levels of survival, and ultimately are made to fight (and die for) wars of political and economic domination over other nations and peoples.”
It seems to me that Europe, although much more socialist than the US, there are a handful of countries the working classes are better taken care of than other places regarding finances. But Europe still remains mostly Capitalistic, albeit it’s their socialist tendencies that take care that the workers in certain countries are better taken care of.
So you can’t really generalize in such a fashion, although socialism one could clearly argue is the mitigating factor that makes for the change that the workers there are better taken care of.
Socialism or Communism, where one to take the good from either or both might in the end boil down to the same thing, honoring potential.
I don’t know what to call that, but it certainly would involve a person expressing their experience of life, their viewpoint, their thoughts, how they see things, their own innate insight, passions and instincts…..
Removed for moderation.
In response to “Brenda Schaeffer” If you are going to accuse “someone” on this site of accusing parents of being the blame for their children’s behavior in class when they can’t control themselves, you haven’t stated who that person is.
Further more, listing someone as anti-pharma again without stating what he has reported, this is labeling someone without backing it up.
THAT is your brand of science?
Such and such fixes a situation, anyone pointing out what contrary results are is either
1) not helping anyone
2) blocking anyone who argues against the evidence that of the ineffectiveness of the treatment
3)only allowing that anti-whatever-is-supposed-to-be-fixing-the-problem, whether it does or not
4)failing or lacking in funds to continue
5) behaving in a fascist authoritarian way
You also share precognition of whether Bob is going to continue underwriting this site, as if you know him personally or have other insights. Are there any other predictions you want to make while trying to ridicule the people here as not being able to help anyone? That isn’t the case at all. You only have to read what’s reported here. If people aren’t being helped by their “medications” and they can’t express that without being accused of being non compliant or a danger to themselves or others; when what they in reality are doing is giving themselves the space and information to find out what could help them beyond mainstream methods; when they might need to know whether getting away from a disabling agent would work for them, then YOU aren’t going to find out if it does or not while accusing those wanting to find evidence of whether a different method might work of the five above listed accusations. And those are just five. The same as people that keep their own lives contrary to what a dictator or authoritarian system would do do not start sharing what is effective for them when they can’t without such accusations and thus could be imprisoned as non conforming. This should answer the questions you bring up here regarding this site https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/11/capitalism-whats-destroying-collective-mental-health/#comment-202724 I don’t see that 225 to250 dollars per session supplies such freedom https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/brenda-schaeffer-minneapolis-mn/54111 nor having a whole website https://www.brendaschaeffer.com/ and books and retreats….. No that doesn’t secure safety for people to heal that might be threatened with the kind of accusations you’ve displayed.
You can read here on this site numerous very clear analyses of what psychiatric medications can do that the drug companies don’t report, what the statistics are regarding recovery when they are involved, how their implementation corresponds with the current spike in mental illness. All from grounded scientific evidence. And then more scientific evidence pointing out that it’s not alleged that psychiatric medications cause chemical imbalance but it still remains only alleged that they treat them, in fact the drug companies have stopped looking to try to prove such allegations for the most part, and as yet haven’t supplied any conclusive evidence.
Someone who reports this regarding the medications used for children that are deemed out of control, and how those medications could not be effective, and does this with scientific evidence (which Robert Whitaker’s books also supply) this is reporting that, that isn’t blaming anything on parents. In fact those two things are separate, if that is even what you are going on about. Since you make statements without referring to who they are about as well as accusations of blaming parents without how that was done, and then saying someone is anti-pharma without again stating what that person has said, and then implying you know how long this site is going to last, who is supporting it financially as well as. Then you go on about whether this site helps people, stating that: “They donāt know what to do for the severely depressed, the suicidal, the manic and schizophrenics who are desperately seeking a bit of relief from their torment,” while simply reading through the material on this site, the stories, would tell you the truth that this site does help many people. Beyond that there are many people who wouldn’t be allowed to express that what this site reports has helped them, because the mental health system could label them as non-compliant and force them on the very treatments that they got away from that weren’t helping them. That also you can read numerous reports of on this site, again regarding your question in another “post” regarding what’s authoritarian or fascist.
No, simply reporting scientific evidence against drugs that cause chemical imbalance, are reported to do the opposite, that statistically have caused an increase in what they are said to heal, and also are highly addictive with all the problems there as well: withdrawal symptoms and side effects — reporting that isn’t anti-pharm, that’s pointing out what kind of problems the pills could cause or have caused.
Reporting evidence, also possibly of scientific material put out by the drug companies themselves but can logically be interpreted differently to be contrary to their claims, this wouldn’t be blaming anyone’s parents either (nor anything or anyone else you’re accusing such open mindedness of doing), but exposing what could end up not being helpful to these children, although it is sold and promoted as being helpful. When it’s said that the problem isn’t the parents because putting attention on something else fixes it when otherwise the parents might be blamed, when there’s problems pointed out with what “something else” really does when implemented as a mendicant to the situation this in no way is blaming the parents. As much as it avoids really looking at what “something else” is really doing for those invested in it, saying that blame is put on the parents because “something else” is questioned is not true. That something else would have to actually fix the problem.
Yes medications are supposed to promote healing, but when they don’t do that, to report the scientific and statistical evidence behind their possible ineffectiveness isn’t some war on medications, it’s promoting the truth rather than handing someone a pill because they are made out to be healing tools, and then disregarding whether they do that or not.
Reporting the scientific truth regarding psychiatric medications when they aren’t effective, or even against what they are said to accomplish, this isn’t anti-pharma, that’s pro-healing, pro-science and pro truth and intelligence. As well as reporting what might get in the way of brain health.
Of course, as soon as students start showing signs of natural responses to trauma, or God Forbid empathy for what others have to go through who aren’t so privileged to end up at Yale or other Ivy League Colleges…
How dare they not be happy to be so privileged….
Let alone what their schools teach regarding “mental health.”
Also Richard, you’re not defending Communism.
Prohibiting humor while implying that Steve said or did something he didn’t isn’t defending this placard that shall not be tarnished.
I think Steve really honors communism, although I can’t speak for him, but I don’t want to take it out of context put it on a pedestal and disable the goodness it can do.
I had friends that had to play at funerals in order to survive financially. And had this story of a lady who had were underarms botoxed because otherwise she might tarnish her wedding dress. And evidently she advertised this. I had to dwell on this for a moment, when a serious concern hit me: “What if she farts!?”
It’s crude I know, but you gotta do what you gotta do…..
āSo does your sarcastic humor {mocking human attempts at building a classless society} imply that you believe that a class based profit system FILLED with multiple forms of exploitation (including the medical model) is the very best that human beings are capable of?ā
One can replace “class based profit system” with numerous other phrases to make the same argument regarding “Communism.”
1) social heirarchy
2) doing things condoned by the state as being good for the all
3) fitting the status quo of communism
4) make up your own
And by the way, “Capitalism” hasn’t necessarily supported the “medical model” because if the system supporting the “profits” of the drug companies were to continue in the way it is now headed statistically, we would end up with having a society full of so many people incapacitated with their “medications” that it wouldn’t be capable of producing what it would need to continue.
Capitalism in essence is about potential, same as communism, that you get rewards by offering something that people find of value….. It’s just the rewards system is not seen as the same.
If they aren’t really offering something that is of value for the society, regardless of the system, the society in the end falls apart.
.
An alternative version to the last two paragraphs of my post:
In all respect, but isn’t it implying class levels when you turn around what Steve is saying because it doesn’t fit your formula? I think you have to look at what a different outlook you’re not familiar with is saying. “Communism” and “Capitalism” (please note the quotation marks) are both routined in brainwashing, that anything not according to their formula is not the way to go about it. Steve’s sharing of a joke is a quite enlightened and effective way of going past such formulas. Anyone with perspective would see that the joke isn’t about either ideology when it’s actually honored, but regarding what comes of fundamentalism. And because it’s a joke, it needs no quotation marks. And that was the whole point of trying to bring balance into this discussion. Where the article basically says that people are mentally ill because of the very system which leaves those in charge of the system not having such “illnesses” according to the article. And this has nothing to do with them profiting off of such labels? I’m sure you could take the same formula and look at “Communist” places, and have pretty much the same results. But you might be still labeling and pushing away the same responses that actually can make change when just felt and not seen as a disease, nor pushed away as a disease.”Communists” were more overt in drugging those they found non compliant to their political ideology. “Capitalism” seems to be more covert, and this is yet another example of it. “YOU’RE making us sick, and thus WE are sick, and it’s YOUR fault,” I don’t necessarily find so empowering. In fact it’s defining a response that when NOT seen as a disease might ring in the natural instincts and intelligence that might change things…….
It’s quite amazing you would know whether Van Gogh and Winston Churchill would disagree, albeit that being a generic response from the mental health system that they can fix up people who fortunately are beyond their reach (listed as deceased), and statistically are helping to create more people who become deceased with their treatments, it still requires the real voice of those they say they are fixing up. You are free to have either one come and express their disagreement, and post this anywhere online.
Further more, if the whole Royal family decided to get mental health treatment this still doesn’t mean that it’s working. Any list of people in the public eye, and behaving in a way to maintain their image, get points on corporate media for going along with what’s being promoted there, this is more expressive of the game theory going on that there’s loss if they don’t take mainstream methods that would give them points, because they loose their public image. It remains statistically true that the mental health system rather than decreasing mental illness has increased it, that their story of treating chemical imbalance has never been proven, that they even have pretty much given up on being able to prove it, and in the meantime true science says that they are causing chemical imbalance with their pharmacological treatments. In short that their medications cause chemical imbalance has been proven, it’s not alleged, in contrast to that they treat chemical imbalance. That is what the general public ends up being treated with or often forced to endure, and the result is an epidemic, not a lessening of the occurrence.
The whole lifestyle of a group of people that if their lifestyle was transposed to the general public would cause impossible stress on the whole system of resources of this planet, they don’t represent the general public at all. Certainly not statistically, no matter how many points they get, or how good it makes them feel to get points from “the mental health system.”
Lady Gaga by the way has said that although she ended up taking anti-depressants that that is one thing she wouldn’t recommend.
And again, statistics themselves disagree with whether the current mainstream trends in mental health treatment are effective, hauling out a number of people who as a minority did feel they got help, whether they are famous or whether they are another part of the minority, this doesn’t change the statistics, it only points out more why the mental health system doesn’t work, and that they aren’t looking at the results in a realistic way regarding whether their methods are truly working. Instead they suppress other methods that are effective. No amount of drug company profits are going to change that.
“The very definition of a stateless and classless communist society is one DEVOID of ANY forms of human exploitation.”
Wow, I haven’t quite read that in “communist” Russia’s ideology, but it sure fits. They don’t exploit human beings at all, they just ship those unworthy to Siberia, the rest have to comply, and do that willingly, finding the true soul of what it is to be human. Thus it is a stateless and classless society, those wanting to divide things up into states and classes end up in Siberia. Much more efficient that having them die on skid row.
I could list a highly communist society that is completely classless and stateless (since “someone” said they haven’t ever existed and Steve “KNOWS” this), but I wouldn’t want to bother them given such “advertisement” they are supposed to fit into. Nor do I want to be labeled as unrealistic, since those people aren’t interested in being part of the media information which would do what it does to anything it can’t get its hands on, regardless of which “ideology” is running it. They have existed for at least 30,000 years. They also could be seen as capitalistic, since they honor potential, which is what capitalism is meant to be, that those that have something to offer to the whole are rewarded for it. So anyone could say the same regarding Capitalism, that it offers anyone who is truly willing to give to the whole of society gets rewarded, making it in that essence classless, since that potential is there for anyone. But then you have what a world believing trauma is a means of mind control turns into both theories. Both communism and capitalism are just possible tools, like when you build something. I think you need more than one tool. Fighting about which is the right one only prevents them working together. That society, which is classless and everyone is honored for who they are (the first things they hear when born is “we are with you on your journey, and that’s also the last things they hear) does exist without money, but it’s dying off, their own choice: they aren’t reproducing because there’s no room left for them.
You can read the works of Marlo Morgan and see that they exist, which I’m not going to argue about, because I don’t need to, nor about the plethora of stuff that would be called impossible by both the noble “Communists” or “Capitalists,” or anyone else so full of knowing what’s possible that they know. Same as they know “mental illness” has to be a chemical imbalance because it “can’t” be anything else. Everything from how they stay healthy (knowledge of plant healing and energy modalities we either forsake or say it impossible) to their knowledge of the Universe, natural abilities we call miracles, and the very technology age old constructions around the planet we wouldn’t be able to build with our present technology they have no problem knowing is possible, stuff Tesla knew was possible and could explain quite a bit of but was suppressed by both ideologies. Aliens from other planets can visit them, which has happened at least once, without the aliens ending up in area 51 with the government trying to warp their technology to what it couldn’t even go round in circles in time resonating with, instead remaining intangible and unexploitable to the war industries. Always have and always will.
Is THAT enough for “someone” to say I’m crazy, because THAT has never happened but THIS is the way it would work. So we can again say it’s crazy for anyone to point out maybe it works differently and has been around the whole time….
And Richard YOU are the one trying to make out there are classes the way you try to intimidate Richard by turning what he said around and twisting it into such contortions it’s not recognizable as anything he said at all, as if such exploitation of ideology is a moral mask giving you the right to not actually see what someone said when it doesn’t fit your formula.
It’s called brainwashing. “Communism” and “Capitalism” are quite routined in it.gure trying to chastise a child that it still can giggle rather than to take on this facade of “activisionism and TRUE insight.”
True….
This whole article is still making me a bit hysterical.
I really think it’s the “capitalists” or rather than branch of them that could as easily be called “socialists” when it involves how they gang together into guilds (Whitaker has co-written a book on this), and thus share the wealth amongst each other; it’s them that have coined with the DSM these diagnosis that are steered towards profits for the drug Industries, along with a suppression of dissent, and fear of not fitting in with fear based indoctrination at social, institutional and religious levels.
WHY then does this article use the definitions coined by the capitalists in order to prove that capitalism causes such? Capitalism WANTS you to see it as a disease. WHAT if you simply felt it when you were “depressed” or “anxious” or any of the others!? WHAT if you felt it rather than pushing it away as a disease!? Pushing it away might be the major cause of the discomfort!? Would you not see it as something to push away, would you just feel it, you might find something money can’t buy you. I don’t think that’s caused by capitalism, and I don’t think it’s a disease….
The level of nonsense going on here:
“Study finds first direct evidence of a link between low serotonin and depression” https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/05/study-finds-first-evidence-of-link-between-low-serotonin-levels-and-depression
To begin with, if they are now finding the first direct link to the serotonin hypothesis, isn’t this after serotonin re-uptake inhibitors have been FDA approved for how many years? Even for a direct link (rather than proof, which is isn’t, it’s only listed as a “direct” perception from those looking for a link) it’s a bit late isn’t it?
Beyond that those “medications” don’t increase serotonin, they do that for awhile in the beginning, then the brain stops producing as much (along with a host of other side effects) and you have less serotonin.
Thus, if that link was direct, and true, then everyone who has been on such anti-depressants beyond the initial transition period needs to get off of them, or they will get depressed.
What are they really saying, that actually they are lying to you: less than normal serotonin is good for you, and that is what prevents depression (along with more than normal), and anti-depressants do both, but they can’t tell you that. So in reality, you need to be lied to, and that will decrease your depression? It’s all about ideology, the more of a lie it is the more fantastic it seems, and it’s this fantastic quality that beats depression!
You have to PURSUE happiness, if you weren’t being lied to, you would have found [attained] it and cease to pursue….
After my first try at having to follow how such pretense is put forth, I rather went to something else. Then read it again, and got through it, but along the line, maybe half way [hopefully] one does start to feel like something is weighing down on one, and this made me wonder to what degree and/or whether having to read yet another expose on this redundant corruption leads to depression. Anger, Confusion, ODD…..
And yet, if you read it, and can follow it, you learn something you wouldn’t have if you believe depression, anger, confusion, ODD etc. are “diseases.”
That is just SO NICE of these amazing authorities [Prof Oliver Howes, a consultant psychiatrist based at Imperial College and Kingās College London, and a co-author] to teach us this. It may make you think that it’s making you sick having to decipher how they have you going round in circles, lead you into disarray or are simply lying to you, but in the end you’ll learn that you aren’t sick at all…..
Apparently [Prof] Howes has a whole list of conclusions quite possibly as warped ready for deciphering. https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/oliver-howes Quite a smorgasborg: Treatment resistance to [schizophrenia] treatment that has to be listed as being based on hypothesis.
“Direct evidence for a link,” this to make you know they aren’t working with ‘indirect” evidence when searching for a link that for how many years has never really turned up. That from the title of the Guardian article: “Study finds first direct evidence of a link between low serotonin and depression.”
And the excellence of the research is highlighted by failing to list how many times already this “first direct evidence” has been found for yet again the “first” time. Evidently the second time they found this first direct link just wasn’t enough. And at what negative location did they start counting to consistently end up at positive one again? If they tried six times for the first to emerge, they started at negative five, you see….. then comes investigating what this link listed as direct really links up to…..
This is really ground breaking though, as institutions go, I’m looking forward to seeing the building built to house their future investigations of yet another first direct evidence, it would be quite miraculous would they have enough legroom to work this out, and once the building is built, and they give up, which is quite reasonable would one conclude the eventually of such, given evidence, then there’s this empty building. Maybe all the homeless people that were supposed to be fixed by this groundbreaking cure yet to be found, maybe they can have a home, right there, and prove there are other ways.
I hadn’t but skimmed over this article, but I also find it a bit “funny” after calmly reading through it. If one would take it seriously, then one would think that those who are privileged by their lack of empathy, by their hard liner ideals that they deserve what they prevent others from getting, that pretentious materialistic debauchery (being spoiled rotten with superficial things) and the ability to deceive others is a sign of sanity; and those abused by all of that are the ones with “mental illnesses.”
WHO is ADVERTISING what as some “mental health” problem listed as a “disease” based on said “symptoms!?” I really think it’s the one’s made out to be “sane.”
“Other studies show that capitalists and managers report better psychological well-being than workers and supervisors.”
Also, having tried TWICE to get it right, first I wrote in my first post here: “Advertising from capitalism is destroying are mental health,” tried to correct that as: “Advertising from Capitalism is destroying out mental health,” and it should be
ADVERTISING FROM CAPITALISM IS DESTROYING OUR MENTAL HEALTH
We’ve become consumers that are so addicted, we think that pills can create “mental health,” and when that creates instead an epidemic, we believe that needs to be forced on people. And those leading all of that onslaught are then heralded as “sane.” We’re brainwashed.
Who exactly is forcing people to buy stuff at McDonald’s, Wallmarts, to load up on the latest fashions brought on by peer pressure and the fear of being different, to let an idea of convenience destroy their ability to think for themselves as long as it involves pressing a button or having it prepackaged in more plastic that what you end up with, that parking your rear end in a church regularly to be filled with what you are told is how things work in “Heaven” prevents you from some “benevolent God” that would throw you into a lake of fire, I don’t know what else and I’m going to take a step back rather than highlighting the discrepancy and being labeled indecent, crazy and unrealistic because it seems that those with all of the money can do things that they aren’t supposed to, whether its by covering it up or conning people to believe it’s some dream that only money can buy, all hyped up by the moralism of the masses as to what’s possible, decent and reasonable or not!?
Maybe if people had a different idea of what making it is, and what happiness is, maybe if they dared to believe something that they think is impossible and get social points for denying, maybe if they wouldn’t look for a convenient excuse to deny it when someone is truly hurt, and needs a little love, a helping hand or just someone to listen to their story, as if there’s a loss to venture into being human!?
Sorry, but to read this whole analyses that heralds what mental health isn’t in order to capitalize on defining it as something it can’t be……
“Other studies show that capitalists and managers report better psychological well-being than workers and supervisors.”
“better psychological well-being”
(!?)
It might not just be capitalism, it might be the academia of defining “psychological well-being” so wonderfully mental that it doesn’t matter that it goes round in circles (capitalism has ruined mental health, because the capitalists have the best mental health), and thus passes and sells as being informative…
Sort of like who is best at believing a lie (the unproven biological theology regarding mental illness), they can determine who is mentally ill and who isn’t. And cause all of the chemical imbalance that’s prevalent with their treatment (what psychiatric drugs scientifically and statistically have proven to cause). And who is paranoid, non reality based and scared of being human?
Should have read” “Advertising from Capitalism is destroying out mental health.”
Advertising from Capitalism is destroying are mental health. It’s called “brain washing” I think, but what that has to do with water and perhaps tubs might only be what I explained prior in a post. When water was scarce everyone used the same tub of water, the baby was last, and by then the water could be so muddy it was conjectured the baby might be thrown out with it. This is how “clean” the “brain washing” is regarding…
I’ve just seen two Hamlets, and Ophelia gets the same treatment, which was shown clearly in Branagh’s version. As to whether she would be put in concentrated ground. Evidently there’s some ectoplasm emitting out of the remains of those committing suicide, and this would expose how the Heaven the church teaches is something they can’t reach themselves, and people who had every right to go beyond such limitations, and the actual nerve, they are turned into some magic of what isn’t them anymore, and wasn’t to begin with.
I don’t think the feelings of not wanting to be contained by such evil as most of such “religions” or “society,” or the rest, I don’t think that’s a disease. It’s just that those making it out to be a disease, ARE NOT going to be the ones pointing out what’s beyond, and here on this planet, and what really healing is.
I went to see a healer, they say is impossible. A Filipino. And I knew there were the amount of years added to my life, as psychiatric drugs normally take off. And then even, I found out about love. I had the same opening into the fourth dimension, where there’s no distance, only perhaps what might be called themes, like give fiction body. My fingers did exactly what the Filipino healers do, only no blood. When I woke up out of this dimension, it was the same as having eaten a strawberry. Because to me its like being in love, and you like being dizzy. The sanctuary that is, a place to rest. But now, love really is what is given to those that need healing. It’s really not some romantic indulgence.
There are places to go, not having the limitations of the SAME PEOPLE calling suicidal thoughts a disease. They exist. They do. Really.
Thatās quite an argument, because actually, would things be worse, could that be possible, without Facebook [!?]. I can imagine that, easily. Actually.
And then history in school, whether itās taught in a way that helps children understand their parents. Mostly the history is too far back to be applicable. And then even that is highly in-accurate. At least, in the US it was: EACH year in school, some class that went on about the same censored stuff, and mostly was for social gossiping, and other game theory bondage.
By the way, I wouldnāt take United Kingdom scores too seriously. Since youāve written: āCountries scoring the lowest were the United Kingdomā etc. They [the UK] are a bit into not giving full honesty, given their sense of humor, and then other things like:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11230427/Australian-love-child-Prince-Charles-Simon-Dorante-Day-wants-meet-Prince-Harry.html
https://www.facebook.com/simoncharles.doranteday
It sounds like you know what you are pressing little keys into patterns called words, each character having a special sound that goes into your meanings. VERY BEAUTIFUL diaphanous weeps!
What I was saying was the video you shared helped me to understand what specificity and sensitivity meant, but then I lost context, but the other video cleared that up. Thank you for directing me to somewhere I could enlighten myself to how such things are done.
It’s quite bizarre to even look into this, because of schizophrenia, or dopamine hyperactivity is the symptoms of a disease, isn’t that most likely caused by the medications preventing the dopamine from being able to attach to the synapse, because something else has put itself there, and thus the brain starts making more dopamine. So, it’s actually AGAIN the diagnosis, and the treatment, that causes this symptoms they are testing for, which you pointed out when found isn’t even specific to the “disease.”
Then it does become, just drug up all these people, and you have the “disease.” WELL! That was a Freudian, I first typed dosease, rather than disease. I corrected it though (!?)
Thanks. Thanks so much for sharing something I might enlighten myself, I couldn’t follow the terminology at all. Thanks for that! But this video actually explained it that I could understand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtYDyGGeQyo the one you shared works for someone already familiar with the terms, but hadn’t grasped them yet, perhaps. With the video you shared, the graph also seems to be incomplete, as it has no number showing at what level you get a positive test result as it moves to the right, in fact without numbers you wouldn’t know whether it was moving into the negative as it goes right, whether zero started somewhere in the middle, or who knows what. Anyhow, I couldn’t follow that at that point, but the other video helped.
It does become something, when we are talking about sigma differences, and at what point someone is decided to have the disease (I imagine how many “symptoms”), but we aren’t talking about a real diagnosis. We are talking about when the system, or the psychiatrist, would decide they have the disease, at which point statistically, they are likely not to recover, if they get treated, or convinced by the system, that they need such.
That DOES become a bit bizarre, that when you completely have no positive diagnosis of the disease, you have more recovery! What does that say about false positives!?
In response to a discussion about Freud:
Iām rereading Jeffrey Moussaieff Masonās book, the chapter Freud and Dora, and I have to break in, just to recall all the nonsense Freud comes up with, and I hadnāt read the book for years, apparently disassociated from it, itās THAT bad:
When Dora has been propositioned by a man whose wife is having an affair with her father, and the man who propositioned her also propositioned a servant, Freud decides that Dora actually is in love with the man who propositioned her, that sheās actually jealous of the servant he propositioned, that she (Dora) is also in love with the manās wife (they read some material regarding sexuality together, and Freud jump to this, and a hoard of other nonsense). Poor Dora was then forced to have ātherapyā with this man who basically felt free to come up with a load of nonsense he thinks is insightful, but has no bearing on whatās happening other than this is called psychotherapy, and Freud made it up, contrary to reality. You can read all of this in his writings. Iām sure I skipped some of the perversions of his āanalyses,ā because itās overwhelming, but you can read that chapter yourself, in the book. All with excellent footnotes and references. Thereās reference to a governess who is said to have been nice to Dora to get to her father, all put forth again by Freud, again thinking he has some insight, as long as thereās some repressed who knows what going on.
Doraās father then didnāt believe she had been propositioned. One at this point can only start to realize the kind of environment poor Dora was in, and Freud ads to it by deciding or supposing who knows what comes from having masturbated as a child, and then says that putting cocaine on a special spot on the nose, will relieve the gastric illness that comes from such (masturbating), all inspired by his friend Fliess. This Fliess would operate on women, because of their āorganic damageā from masturbating, and Freud had handed over an earlier patient to Fliess, an Emma Eckstein, and she almost bled to death from it. Freudās reply was that she was just a hysterical bleeder. Freud decides that Doraās problems come from not admitting sheās in love with the man who propositioned her, whose wife was having an affair with her father, the man who wouldnāt believe she was propositioned, so sent her to Freud for ātherapy.ā Freud then comes to the ridiculous conclusion that Dora couldnāt love the man that propositioned her as a 14-year-old, because she never admitted her love for her father, and this is because of the always-ready-for-whatever-the-result-supposed-was act of masturbating. ALL OF THAT is what this poor Dora has to deal with, child of an industrialist, and having to deal with this āsociety,ā sheās forced to have to endure.
When she cuts off this ātherapyā (which is good considering that she could have ended up like Emma Eckstein), she is tossed around in different publications by various people in Freudās cult. Made out to be some sort of hostile jealous person bent on revenge (see above, that when she didnāt like being assaulted as a 14 years old, which her father wouldnāt believe, and she wouldnāt entertain such nonsense as that he actually loved the man but couldnāt feel it because her masturbating as a child has repressed her love for her father: if youāre lost by now, masturbating as a child according to the founder of psychotherapy Freud prevented her from loving her father, which is why she couldnāt know she loved the man that her father wouldnāt believe propositioned her)ā¦ When all of THAT doesnāt help Dora, Freud thinks he failed because he didnāt see that she was ātransferringā her vengeance towards the man who propositioned her to him. So it wasnāt that he was trying to load her with fabricated mental constructs having nothing to do with what was going on, her āinabilityā to believe such nonsense was because she was ātransferringā her anger towards the man who propositioned her towards him.
beokay, I’m trying to look up those terms you use, but could you explain what these terms refer to:
A 1-sigma difference
a sensitivity of 0.5
a specificity of 0.84
a 1/100 prevalance
And how this then ends up: “A test based on that with a sensitivity of 0.5 would have a specificity of 0.84 and ā assuming a 1/100 prevalance ā would produce over 30 false positives per true positive and label 16% [!] of the population as schizophrenic.”
Because I believe you, and wish I could follow it, how such a result comes about.
Even though we are talking about a mental construct that something is a disease, not even about a real disease. A condition from an environment, a normal response to an abnormal situation not acknowledged, these aren’t diseases. Poverty isn’t a disease. Living through a war isn’t a disease. etc. Having to deal with a brainwashed society isn’t even a disease….. to throw “disease” out the window, because where is it then?
The disease of saying people are “diseased.” Sort of like school yard bullying, stereotyping, discrimination and eugenics.
(sorry, I was posting from a cell phone, using speak recognition, wanted to add something, but it seems everything is so geared towards making people trigger happy, that I have no idea why it posted, when I simply was trying to add something, so here is the addition) Somehow, in contrast to whoever that was (beatrice), I donāt think that simply calling it for what it is when someone resorts to such ridiculous nonsense as penis envy. That wasting your time sorting through why he made up this bologna and then having filled yourself with references that go nowhere but youāre supposed to know because this is what goes on in such discussions, somehow I donāt think that not doing that, not taking part in such tediousness is tedious. Since the word was used. Whatās obviously tedious is having to re-articulate indoctrinated snippets, hauled out from that place of no return that they were trying to escape from. Like Dickens when he referred to the circumlocution office, and how anyone actually wanting to do something ends up being buried in minutes, assaults with bushels of addendums, references, footnotes, and if they still somehow break through to the light of day have their insights deemed to be unwarranted for such high honors as actually being listened to. Well then you have to actually sort through all of that and deny that it leads nowhere. Freudās penis envy is an assault on women. Itās a denial of the sexual abuse that was rampant in that society, and how such trauma affects people. It DENIES trauma. It is as ridiculous as saying that people with brown skin when they suffer the kind of abuse and oppression that has been meted upon them by a society full of white men… It is as ridiculous as saying that when they show signs of trauma because of it they have sparkle envy. That they actually would want to have white skin that sparkles in the sunlight or something that ridiculous. Same as abused women want a penis, or that because men are the oppressors, you can deny that saying women want their special part. And any beating around the bush being truly tedious and excusing that nonsense this is abuse in itself and playing game theory with oh yes no Iām a therapist look I can dress up this baloney and make it seem like something because I fill up with so much a distraciont of scientism that people are going to believe it and go around nodding their head filled with such. That the whole world went walking around thinking they knew something about mental illness because there’s these ridiculous mental constructions such as penis envy or an Oedipus complex. Might as well add sparkle envy or Penguin desires (wanting the right to wear black suites like the rest of “them”). What’s worse is when trauma is acknowledged, that this turns into a whole variety of therapies that in exposing this trauma, get a person stuck in being a victim. Worst maybe being, us holy therapist can teach you how to understand your trauma, it goes this way, to be followed by more indoctrination. People have a innate ability to deal with trauma, and that comes out when you just listen to them, not think you know how to teach them how to deal with it. That ISN’T listening.
No, I don’t think Jung and Freud pioneered modern therapy, when it’s helpful. That was more people like Miles Horton or R.D. Laing. Or any good person who studied psychology or social work and ditched all of these mental constructs to just listen to another person. I think that the arts, yoga, such wonderful techniques as pandiculation to get the body to release held on tension, nature that all of that and more is healing, and therapeutic. To tick off a bunch of books and say this one says how you have to teach the body to let go of this, and this one says it’s because you can’t verbalize what’s going on, when the healing might be completely beyond verbalizing anything, and the body won’t let go of it unless you stop trying to make it let go.
Somehow, in contrast to whoever that was, I don’t think that simply calling it for what it is when someone resorts to such ridiculous nonsense as penis envy. That wasting your time sorting through why he made up this bologna and then having filled yourself with references that go nowhere but you’re supposed to know because this is what goes on in such discussions, somehow I don’t think that not doing that that is tedious or who knows what else. What’s obviously tedious is that somebody has to actually be articulate and see that to dismiss all that nonsense is totally valid. Well then you have to actually sort through all of that and see that it leads nowhereFreud’s penis envy is an assault on women. It’s a denial of the sexual abuse that was rampant in that society, and how such trauma affects people. It is as ridiculous as saying that people with brown skin when they suffer the kind of abuse and oppression that has been meeting upon them by a society full of white men. It is as ridiculous as saying that when they show signs of trauma because of it they have sparkle envy. That they actually would want to have white skin that sparkles in the sunlight or something that ridiculous. And any beating around the bush being truly tedious and excusing that nonsense this is abuse in itself and playing game theory with oh yes no I’m a therapist look I can cross this baloney and make it seem like something because I fill up with so much distract of scientism that people are going to believe it and go around nodding their head filled with such.
Birdsong, I’m sorry you have to deal with such insensitivity. That’ somebody who is supposed to be helping others, knew they were being sexually molested or had been. But that being not something one was allowed to talk about made up this ridiculous mental construction called penis envy. You know just that he could keep on maintaining this image that he knew what was going on and was helping, no he wasn’t. And then when somebody simply calls it for what it is and doesn’t hold back being politically correct then suddenly they are making sweeping gestures. I thought Freud had already cornered that market, wow. There are some very excellent books written by Jeffrey Moussaieff Mason which detail very clearly the stuff again the psychological and psychiatric institute don’t want people to know. In his books you’ll find all of the information about what you’re not told in how abusive both Freud or Jung could be. Jung who was the someone who believed women belonged in the kitchen and there was something wrong with the primitive races genetically. Of course someone who is apologetic about such behavior because for example they think that instead of just listening to somebody who has suffered trauma, instead of seeing that this is a society that doesn’t allow that such expression, instead of just listening and giving the natural knowledge that already is inside that person’s space to do what it naturally does. Instead that they started making epitaphs on how they are going to teach somebody to deal with trauma. Well, there you have the whole….Because you know animals don’t hold on to that stuff. Well isn’t this jumping right from the frying pan into the fire. The society doesn’t allow you to express it so let us teach you how not to listen to yourself because since animals can just do it and we don’t seem to it’s because we haven’t been taught to. Wow.
If I understand what I’ve just read [twice]:
To create the marketing of brain scans, they bypass true science by
1) not reporting methodology or how many people were dismissed from the data
2) having very small sized groups where there is more chance of finding correlation
3) use of enough analyses pipelines that by changing the criteria or analyses parameters one eventually finds a correlation, but this is based on adjusting the parameters until one of the pipelines find a correlation.
4) and then there is the tautology of there is this concordance with people who we find in remission, but with those who aren’t there isn’t such a concordance, which works with anything. This person did that, and they are in remission, everyone else lacks that. Added to this, those not treated with the biological ideology, they are more likely to have chronic problems, so in reality the correlation is with those where there is no correlation with their method.
How many people have had this kind of stuff thrown at them?
When a clinician, even in a setting that they aren’t there to give a diagnosis, that any behavior can suddenly be misinterpreted to be a symptom.
I could go over a whole list of them myself. And it’s quite baffling. In fact a voice told me, while taking a parks and recreation yoga class from a person who also was a social worker, to not even ask her questions, or anything, to just go to class and leave, and I knew there was no concern, and didn’t heed the voice. And then I found out that ANYTHING could be misinterpreted, was she paranoid or suspicious, literally ANYTHING, and then she also lied added to that:
1) If I shared stuff that I shared with all sorts of people (I have nice CDs of my own compositions I play on the piano, which I had given the yoga teacher in the prior class, who said it was good music, other people love it, one lady gave it to her sister who wouldn’t give it back being that it was the only thing that got her to go to sleep at night), and suddenly I was giving her “special” gifts and psychotically in love with her (I’m gay, I was in no way in love with her, I found her quite repulsive pretentious and coy, but she had a commitment to yoga I at that time admired, which I no longer do).
2) When she thought something was going on with me, and it wasn’t, and she had asked friends of hers to walk to her car, I supposedly was stalking, harassing and trying to intimidate her. All I did was after class have to settle down, I also rode a bike, and so had to put warm clothes over my sweat suite, and also her classes weren’t really good yoga, too fast, and so I had to come down from that as well. I never did anything but get ready, and then leave, which usually was after she had left already completely, car and all, I never had any intention of having anything to do with her after class, had no interest in her other than taking yoga, I never made any approach towards her while she was going to her car, etc. But that she had suspicions about something not going on, and she had friends walking her to her car, this could be seen as if I was stalking her etc. It was completely not true. In fact ANYBODY she had suspicions about enough to ask others to walk her to her car could suddenly find themselves accused of such nonsense. I remember also that she said anyone could ask questions after the first class. So, I had mentioned how much yoga helped me, and then offered one of my CDs, she wanted to play that in class, but I didn’t know if I could concentrate with my own music playing, and I might have ideas of how to change something. That REALLY was all, other than I noticed that she slumped a bit, and her posture wasn’t good, so myself in contrast straightened up. Nothing more than that. She then made out of this that I was two inches higher than I am, about 30 pounds heavier, and that I was looming over her trying to intimidate her. Absolute nonsense.
3) Sometimes, after class while I was getting ready, she might be talking to someone, and I’m not deaf, so I would hear what she was saying. It also was sometimes interesting, because she was so different from my friends, and it was like reading a book, and taking in a characterization. She instead thought I was listening intently to what she was saying, as if I don’t know what.
4) I once had a brief discussion regarding vaccines. She had been complaining about the pain in her arm, because working as a social worker in a hospital she is required to have them, and I simply asked: “do they really help as much as they say they do?” I think beyond any discussion about vaccines, that this doesn’t mean you are safe of the rest of the world is safe from you, you STILL have to take care of your health, eat healthy, rest, not get stressed out etc. I was really calm, but she got snippy, and then when I didn’t show up for the next class, she said I was resentful because of a disagreement. Which AGAIN she was trying to make out I had some fixation I didn’t have. It also wasn’t true at all that that had anything to do with me showing up for class or not, I had actually gone to the bus with my bike (there’s a rack on the bus for bikes, so you can travel with them) but the rack was full, and I had really bad eczema and riding that far on my bike rather than the couple of blocks to the bus, this would cause sweating, and it was cold weather, I had to wear gloves, and that with the eczema would be like torture, as if someone is tearing your skin off, and so I didn’t ride my bike to the class. It was simply because the bus rack was full. No other reason. But then if I showed up for class, she felt free to make a multitude of incorrect diagnosis, and if I didn’t the same. Same sort of corrupt tautology.
I could go on for quite awhile, for pages, with a whole bizarre relay of pin the tail on the donkey, how she would see something, decide this was a sign of something, and make erroneous interpretations. But I won’t right now. She also lied, or she was completely non reality based herself. She said that she said things she hadn’t, supposedly she told me to back off when I tried to share something, and she never had. She said that I stepped on her yoga mat, which I’m quite sure I never did. When I had a bad back and couldn’t do maybe 10% of the poses, and instead did the child pose (which she announced to the whole class, noticing it, that that is what you do when you can’t do a pose) or rested my head on my hand. THIS became that I supposedly spent 80% of the class with my head on my hand looking at her. And then there were more lies I won’t get into, it’s so sordid. The one thing I should point out is that at one point she actually maintained this following statement: “I know, he doesn’t hear voices, he sees things that aren’t there, it’s non reality based.” I had heard a very clear voice telling me to avoid her completely, and she proved there was complete reason for that. And this really proves she doesn’t know what she’s going on about. It only sounds good to make reference to specific supposed symptoms, and that this is there, but the other not, and make it sound like it’s whatever it’s supposed to be, but…. In fact, for the first time I realize how ridiculous such a statement is (she had gotten a restraining order, and she said this to a judge), because she didn’t, doesn’t, and wouldn’t know me well enough to make ANY of such a statement. It was totally pretentious. She didn’t know me, she doesn’t know me, she actually used what clearly pointed out her paranoia as something that wasn’t going on (I do hear voices, and they are accurate, not a sign of an illness)…..
And what happened is that I was trying to communicate something that was impelling enough that it came in out of “nowhere,” but I didn’t see the context yet. So that was labeled non reality based, same as anything people are unfamiliar with, it supposedly can’t exist. I did have a bit of symbolic stuff going on, but that has resolved itself, actually. In fact the next day I knew I had been off, but then it was too late
It’s a whole other world to get into what they saw as “non-reality based.” But I can simplify it that it was about investments, and she was investing in nothing but paranoia, and trying to validate something was going on that wasn’t. And I actually had picked that up because of a spirit friend of mine, and her youth. I talked with Mozart’s mother Anna a lot 30 plus years ago through a medium. In fact, during one pose in one of those classes, I saw Anna in my mind, but she was this rather wilted looking girl. In her youth. As if she was held back from just being there. It had been difficult talking to her through a medium, and I had asked her why there were the difficulties (did this in my mind, not through a medium) and she broke down and said she always wanted a family. Her father then had lost everything BECAUSE of investments. He wasn’t there anymore in her youth. But all this PARANOIA of this ridiculously suspicious social worker, that’s the kind of stuff that takes away a person’s ability to simply respond naturally. And then even, when I saw Anna, as an uncomfortable girl in that class, and teared up a bit, ONE OF that “social worker’s” friends saw me, and said: “and he starts crying.” At that time, I didn’t know what that was, not till afterwards I found that it was THAT friend that had suggested I was in her personal space (really just because I was interested in yoga, which she was supposed to be teaching), and she ACTUALLY thought that I was crying because I was in love with this person. Literally ANYTHING I did could be misinterpreted. And as soon as you say something they don’t understand, that they can list as psychotic, then all their “interpretations” are excused. It was completely the opposite also. It had nothing to do with it other than I was picking up what that kind of paranoia does to someone, the paranoia I didn’t know was going on, already. I was disassociating from it. What I thought, actually was that this paranoid social worker had been that father (if anything, I realized later she was the mother that made her daughter that uncomfortable, until Leopold came along), and picking stuff up from the place of no time didn’t make sense to whoever I tried to communicate that to. Investments are investments, whether bad financially are bad regarding paranoia that something is going on that isn’t. EVEN when corrupt people make money off of the bubble that later bursts and leaves many others in poverty, or that anyone gets a whole salary from what put other vulnerable people in an impossible position, where they are disenfranchised, misrepresented and discriminated against. This then was seen as crazy, what I tried to communicate regarding investment, and considering how I was disassociating from truly paranoia discriminatory stuff going on it wasn’t understood, although it DID get me out of that situations. But years pass and I did run into this father, according to me, the father Anna had lost, and investing in something else brought a miracle into my life. I had a tooth infection, basically because of the dental clinic doing work that wasn’t necessary, because there were students there, causing distress, causing me to grind at night, causing the infection in the end (and they didn’t tell me I was grinding at the beginning or ever that I needed a bit, or that I had traumatized the ligatures connecting the tooth to the jaw, they wanted to give me a root canal which I know better than to go for) and things got so bad I won’t mention it, but I didn’t give up on my miracle, and then there was a dentist, who I noticed wasn’t making the right kind of investments in treatment beyond standard approaches, but when I mentioned spiritual healing, he softened, and I recognized him as the “reincarnation” of that father, and I was showing what a good investment is. The simple acknowledging such a possibility. And I knew the tooth would heal, and after that I found a healer, who within a few months got it to be so much better that it wasn’t bothering me beyond being being annoying, in fact I had to laugh noticing I could do things I hadn’t been able to before, and two years later there is no infection (although it HAD been there for like FIVE years). Now, you can talk about investments, you can actually say there’s no such thing as reincarnation, or those people weren’t who I thought, but still the symbolism remains.
And when one is dealing with reflexes towards life, what determines the future, so strongly that you can’t pin it down at all (can’t be “reality” based it depends on potential), it’s not inaccurate to say what they thought was dangerous psychotic (I actually had to deal with a person from parks and recreation saying to a group of people: “she says he could become violent” as if this was some serious concern, when given the whole PLETHORA of misinterpretations and paranoia, and lies, SHE is the one showing signs of that, no one else), I wasn’t a dangerous psychotic at all, I was picking up stuff from the place of no time, from a logic beyond linear time, a logic that envelops another potential to life not devoid or miracles, and that might be more objective than what they call reality based.
Regardless of all of that, which I’ve just shortly tried to explain, that I wouldn’t feel anyone needs to believe or not, she was COMPLETELY wrong. I NEVER was in love with her. I didn’t really do anything that was harassing, intimidating or stalking at all, I certainly am not some dangerous psychotic that could become violent; but as soon as something happened that THEY dismiss as “crazy” all those misinterpretations aren’t even questioned anymore. Same as the plethora of pipelines and changing of parameters that could connect someone picking their nose with a sign of a serious psychiatric disease, that MUST BE biological in origin. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7852253/
This is so disturbing that I want to say I can’t believe it although so many of us here at this site know this kind of stuff is going on. And yet it’s extremely disturbing and shocking, as many times as we hear about it. How is this possible that a whole institution staffed with nurses and other workers who see this kind of stuff going on daily for years doesn’t end up having its behavior reported from the beginning!? They keep on working there and it goes on and on and on. On every level from the parents who didn’t care to know that the child simply gave away his skateboard to the school counselor that reports who knows what when it’s not going on to the whole school itself hiring that counselor not even checking to see what the result is to the whole institution incarcerating a person for stuff that’s not going on to everybody working in the institution to the government allowing this to go on. And now I notice the government gets $359 million dollars or whatever amount it was up there that they get, what about the people that had to endure this torture for years. And is there any difference now? The amount of people I’ve seen get stuck in the system and have their life disabled at so many levels that this is going on I don’t know where to start. Whether it’s they’ve been made to believe something is going on that is at the level of children are told about Santa Claus or the Easter bunny. And or that they need to have this treatment for the rest of their life when the treatment is causing the subsequent problems that are blamed on Santa Claus or the Easter bunny. Or whether they end up on some controlled substance called a medication and can’t get off of it even when they know it’s causing problems and just give up there not really being any help. Or even at the other end of it people actually believing this is necessary, this abusive dehumanizing treatment that we can read about here again where it is baffling to think this could be going on and no one questions it. Is this just cuz humanity thinks that to excuse how things go in society to get the rewards they get from the game theory denying this kind of abuse, that everyone is going around behaving in a way that in order to justify their supposed sanity anything that’s labeled as crazy isn’t even questioned or looked at to see what’s really going on? That goes along with all of the mind control the brainwashing the indoctrination in society they actually have to blind themselves to: this kind of behavior towards people who are labeled as crazy for whatever reason. And how many levels is the simply denial of what’s really going on excused: from this kind of horrendous abuse to somebody being told by their doctor that an antidepressant might help them without all of the data being included that would tell the person that might not be a very good idea at all given how addictive it is and the bleak amount of actual help that those controlled substances give others when actual scientific accurate data is shared. The poor guy that’s been through this deserves everything he’s been given for just daring to survive and daring to go on with his life and daring to find what healing actually is. And allowing life and the universe to do that despite….
And Charlie Rose has E. Fuller Torrey on his show rather than this story, so many others and the scientific truth?
By the way, regarding this “aside:” “(Matt Damon ALSO has done a gay role, but as far as we know isnāt, and I remember some remark stereotyping a character he did i donāt even remember in which movie and stating THAT character was narcissistic)” I don’t even know whether it was a role Mr. Damon played, or another character, but in one interview, regarding someone that’s “mentally” ill he actually went on a whole “delineation” regarding how such people display narcissism. This is a HOLLYWOOD actor maintaining an image talking about…..
And he was actually serious about this. I could go on about this. And it isn’t that I haven’t encountered him and a few others showing the same……..
I have several times signed petitions about this. They do the most….. you know when someone is on ritalin, and start doing repeated things, and are put on anti-depressants because that’s seen as a sign of depression, then are seen as bipolar because of that….
https://investigations.peta.org/nih-monkey-torture/
“repeated obsessive behavior”
But torture monkeys for how long and get no results, and also promote a logic that’s…..
I’m at a loss for words….
Giving people chemical imbalances to say you’re treating it, and try to make out that what turns out to be one (an imbalance) comes from the treatment, till that has to be straightened out (shrinking of the frontal cortex, the brains stem swelling, dopamine deficiency because the brain stops making as much when their dopamine antagonism)….
And this is genetic? How?
Dehumanize people and animals as an excuse to say you’re trying to reinstate their humanity looking for something that doesn’t turn up time and time again!?
Sorry, last night I was tired. I neglected mentioning your simple courage in sticking with the truth. I have had similar experiences when out of absolute good will I have wanted to promote what clearly given research, given scientific truths, given statistics and given free will and informed consent should be exactly what would pave a way towards healing and insight, but then you encounter these indoctrinated road blocks and in your case intimidation, harassment and malicious threats. Can you imagine someone being force treated in an asylum being accosted in such a way would they simply express the simple truth, and that regarding how with violent force they are being treated, or rather being mistreated? What is the difference between this and a fascist system?
There are still people around in your country who remember what it was like for East block countries under the Communist regime. And yet when psychiatry acts in the same fashion it seems as if hardly anyone dares to speak out. What does this say about Western culture? Maybe if you point out parallels people might raise their heads, but who knows how one can say anything about this beyond trusting the Universe so one can enjoy life beyond all of the traps set.
What is clear is that you have had a harrowing time simply stating stuff that to anyone with a clear mind would be the simple truth. And there are so many things like that. Clearly too many people think that sanity is disabling their mind from being articulate enough to fathom the truth beyond indoctrination and the game theory of social adaptation and its brainwashing, that a normal functioning brain is some sort of dire loss. And thus the use of psychiatric drugs or the dismissal of the whole arena of understanding, insight, perspective and true healing that happens when other approaches are allowed.
Dear dear Beata, I’m listening to your talk, but it’s not true that they found out that people who died from suicide had less serotonin, that’s just some or a few of them, others had more serotonin, others had normal amounts, as was with those that didn’t die from suicide. Antidepressants in themselves don’t increase serotonin, they do for the first couple weeks or so, and then the brain stops making as much so then they actually have less serotonin. I notice that you mentioned this regarding there’s a decrease in receptors for serotonin, but it never was found originally the there was a lack of it.
And I’m sorry, but I don’t understand, if you are going to do a video regarding anti-depressants, state numerous times how they interfere with normal brain functions, explain this regarding how the serotonin remains in the synapse with serotonin re-uptake inhibition, I don’t see how this can be reconciled with that unblocking normal brain function. You state clearly that after the receiving cell has taken as much as it wants, some of it is returned to the cell it came from, but with re-uptake inhibition that’s blocked and the serotonin stays in the synapse and so remains at large. So normal brain function is blocked. That causes the brain to decreases the amount of receptors (and I think what you didn’t mention is that it also decreases the amount of serotonin in the end because consequently the brain stops making as much, as well as the amount of receptors is decreased). But you say that when people can’t understand their emotions having normal brain functions blocked, and then say anti-depressant can be a life saver by unblocking them. I don’t know whether that’s a mistake in translation, but it’s is highly contradictory.
Some people can’t deal with an articulate mind. If they are so brainwashed that the mind expressing dissent causes them discomfort, they are happy disabling it. It’s against nature to constantly say sadness is a disease. As if there’s no cause for sadness, the emotion, to exist, as if there’s no intuitive intelligence being expressed there. As if giving room to feel the sadness is dangerous. What does this say about a society that doesn’t give people the space to express such a natural emotion? What does this say about a society when a natural normal emotion gets so blocked up, so repressed that a person feels there’s no place to go with it anymore? Instead of finding an environment that’s empathic giving them an outlet, they feel abandoned. It could just be that trying to push sadness away is the real discomfort. When I was at a junior college people used to drive me crazy. I would be sitting with a group of people, and I would be thinking about something that made me sad, and I instinctively know that when you just feel that that it would go away. I actually would THINK about the emotion that yes it feels that way, but if you just feel it it goes away. But suddenly I would be accosted with people asking me what was wrong, as if there was some terrible tragedy going on, and I was supposed to get hysterical. My father did that a few times also, and it was quite disruptive. In how often would such people with their amplified need to help you by encouraging you to make a drama out of it, only be making things much worse? There are so many other ways to deal with any emotion as well. If you feel a certain way, your mind can have answers, but those voices or thoughts giving that answer are often so quiet people don’t listen. As if the tension of thinking you’re doing something makes it substantive, when that could be highly deceiving.
I think it’s a really good talk, it’s just I found that one point contradictory, and it remains difficult to put into words why someone would feel helped by anti-depressants, it is maybe better just to say it helps some people, although there’s no clear explanation how that works. that it blocks normal brain functions one can clearly explain, you see. But that’s contradictory to how it’s sold.
This is quite something. I had never heard of this book, which was a NEW YORK TIMES NUMBER ONE best seller!?
It just goes to show what an issue, what goes into something being “compelling.”
I had mentioned this before, wasn’t going to go back to it, but with THIS turning up!
How people can be so compelled to find out what’s going on with “schizophrenia” that they look towards anything THIS misleading.
TWO big time Hollywood actors: Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp both have made a movie about “mental illness.” Johnny Depp also starred as a homosexual, and Brad Pitt wanted to, as a part in a movie.
I didn’t know these people, but then I had for a couple of years had past lifetime feelings that I had been Vaslav Nijinsky. This got around, because I talked about it, and BOTH of those actors could frequent my city (I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan) where there never are, that I EVER have seen paparazzi.
And they BOTH without EVER having talked to me about it, started referring to me by that name. Clearly only from gossip or small talk.
Brad Pitt was hanging out at a coffee house I frequented, like multiple times a week. He was taking a math course at a local college, because of his interest in Architecture, and others from his class were there as well. It was kind of funny, because he can’t sit still, and he would often get something wrong in calculations, ask another to look at his work, and you’d see something akin to someone looking at what he did as if they are changing someone’s diapers, or this concerned look as when you’re trying to calm someone down. This millionaire that can hire tutors. Bouncing around making an object of himself getting college students who could afford none of that to help him.
I was intrigued by him, and he clearly started having feelings for me, and I could feel it. I also was having such. And I was so out of it and insecure at that time. Then I got into one of these periods where you’re more not there, and would more just be taking in what’s going on than even thinking about it. Comes from trauma, the mental health system, not being given a voice, not knowing who you are. He had this group of people that I later referred to as his Humpty Dumpy Band, and one of them walked into the coffee house, and they gave each other high fives (which had become customary). Mr. Pitt was sitting behind me, one chair over, and the other came and sat on the other side of that table, while I was on a higher chair, the height of a bar stool. I was looking at a Schumann score, which I remember because I later asked to used his pen, or pencil to write Hemiola where this is a Hemiola in the music. I didn’t want to scrounge around in my backpack looking for a writing utensil. They had gone through their high fives. Mr. Pitt being such a store, the other started going on about wanting a bigger apartment with an extra room, but Pitt was trying to discourage him. He then, it seems for all I know, thought he was cute referring to his CD player as being and E drive, since you only have those on computers. (the D drive is usually the CD-drive but the E drive something else, back then) Maybe I got that wrong (was he referring to the grade he would get?), but he seemed to be entertaining acting like a “schizophrenia,” because I was there behind him. CDs aren’t E drives, that’s on computers, but to confuse them is cute “schizo” stuff, and I a real one was right there behind him!? I don’t know, it was pretentious to me. I really made me laugh, if that’s what he was trying to portray, which I don’ really know. Maybe I got that wrong. At one point the other said: “Are you accusing me of dating too many bar maids?” Which might have had something to do with the extra room. THEN, there was a moment of silence, and then we got to hear: “She’s STILL mad at me…..” Another pause. and we hear THAT again: “She’s STILL mad at me,” as who she was was elevated to that we all are supposed to know who he’s getting together with, because it’s all in the stuff you have to pass by at the store to actually pay the cashier. The tabloids. No mention of who she was, so I have to mention that at that time it was reported that he was dating Jennifer Aniston. This was just when or before Fight Club came out. Not that I’ve seen it. He doesn’t mention HER name, but then says: “Maybe, she’s mad at me because she KNOWS I want to have sex with Vaslav Nijinsky.”
WOW! Let’s get Vaslav Nijinsky, whose life was torn apart by sexual exploitation involved with THIS! By an actor. No, I didn’t get involved with him. I WAS thinking about it. When I came out of such a vulnerable state, where I couldn’t respond to what was going on, I got pretty angry. I could just SEE myself having to deal with all of that. Namely given the media and how they tear anyone apart in such a “venue” as his environment. THAT MUCH I knew, that I was vulnerable. THAT made me quite angry afterwards, such insensitivity. Beyond what the media might do would they get their hands on such, he’s supposed to be an actor, and have insight into what’s going on with others, after having portrayed a “mentally ill” person in the movie 12 monkeys.
AFTER he did 12 monkeys.
It doesn’t end there. He got married to Aniston. And it STILL bothered me such uncouth behavior. Also because he feels free to say such remarks, it NEVER has been something he’s talked about in interviews, to make himself that vulnerable that he has such homosexual feelings. Instead he has, and had such an image that’s marketable because he WASN’T open, and so far HASN’T been. That he would SIMPLY with SUCH BILLING state that he HIMSELF has homosexual feelings, he’s wanted to make love to a guy, or simply mention love itself, rather than sex. Would he state that he has sexual feelings for other guys, HIMSELF. I can’t see but that quite a NUMBER of guys who don’t know what to think about themselves would possibly be prevented from committing suicide. SIMPLY because someone with such billing dared to make themselves vulnerable.
That REALLY bothered me. Still was bothering me years later. I did a search online for Brad Pitt is gay, and the ONLY place that turned up regarding such was in gaypornblog. I actually posted about his behavior, and then: 1) I got TWO nasty phone call messages. Someone that sounded like Jennifer Aniston left a message: “hello..HELLO……(all in this rather out their tone, and not negative in projection, but then we get) YOU PRICK!” I can’t say that was her, but I wouldn’t know who else would call me like that, haven’t had any calls like that since at all, from anyone. Rather peculiar timing if it wasn’t. And there was another message with profanity in it, which I thought was just some repressed person, but after hearing what he hauled out with his family, on a flight when he was drunk, and how he couldn’t go a day without alcohol or marijuana, or something else (even when married), with such a result. Stuff we only know because his NEXT x-wife wanted to anonymously see the police report after the incident regarding a divorce, and it got out when she didn’t want it to, which then is blamed on her. I can’t say that wasn’t him, nor that it was. Couldn’t think it was, till after this report that wasn’t supposed to get out. And then that blog lost ALL of their posts, suddenly. Given the caliber of that blog that could have easily been a payoff rather than some computer glitz. Again, I can’t say I know one way or the other. If it’s non related and chance, it fits quite well that one would think it’s something else. We do all know that Brad Pitt and George Clooney found it funny to hire gay escorts from a site, and send them to each other’s shoots on set. That was all over the news some years ago, and then that site got closed down. What else could people have found out regarding who was hiring such, beyond this “fun” of those two!? Brad Pitt also thought it was worth telling people that George had put, which I now read were TWO stickers on his car. Although I remember Mr. Pitt as saying it was one: I’m gay and I vote,” and “Small Penis on board.” Everyone is honking at him, and he thinks it’s funny says Matt Damon thinking it’s because he’s Brad Pitt (Matt Damon ALSO has done a gay role, but as far as we know isn’t, and I remember some remark stereotyping a character he did i don’t even remember in which movie and stating THAT character was narcissistic)….
And Johnny Depp who portrayed someone on this whole fantasy, who “magically” comes to when taking a neuroleptic. Quite non reality based, as those drugs go. I think Don Juan de Marcos would first have to as addicted to whatever Johnny has been on on both sides of the counter and beyond to be “stabilized” which would be because of withdrawal symptoms. And this whole affair with HIS x-wife, as if with everything he was on, he could remember what he’d done. You would need Hollywood and the media to back that vacancy up. Johnny Depp also referred to me as “Nijinsky,” without ever even starting a conversation asking me about it, himself. Numerous time, in different places. When he was not together with the mother of his children anymore, and before his relationship with his not yet x- wife was in the media, I was waiting at a bus stop. And he came along, stumbling like a drunk, and I thought: “oh, here it comes…..” I DID NOT want to have to deal with a drunk person, and their idea of social interaction. I had ENOUGH going on at that time, and told him to drop dead several times. he THEN actually grabbed my arm, as if he was doing something gentlemanly, and said in a tone I can only describe as childish, although I wouldn’t want to insult a child about it: “No, I want to torment you.” I was supposed to think this was cute, part of his image, his food for the multitudes. Fortunately, after I spouted some more at him, he left. STILL stumbling from intoxication, or rather wobbling along. I wonder whether he even could remember what he’d done. I so had enough of it, told him he’d grabbed my arm, and that I’d call the police. That anyone, going through what I already had, and then this “Nijinsky” connection, would have to deal with him thinking I’m some playground for this game of him thinking something he calls “tormenting” is cute. And the whole what I might call “Peter Pan” image media game, although I wouldn’t want to insult J M Barrie using his character for such reference. I have to add that I had read somewhere that he would wear even a band-aide his daughter had given him, and would describe her behavior as loving to “torment” daddy. Before that, before he had children, I saw him in a bar so loaded that he was all over the place, jumping at impulses while he wouldn’t remember any of it. And I’m sorry, but I don’t think Amber Heard has lied at all. She was holding back from any of what has come out to be in the media, she thought he would come around. And she held back from even naming him, only in an op-ed stating how she had become an object as a woman who spoke out about domestic violence. Because she was harassed, after divorcing him. Got death threats, had to get a new phone every week or something, was black-listed. That’s how women are treated in Hollywood. When Lynn Collins was in X-men and the movie didn’t do well, as the female lead, she was ditched by Hollywood, although the male lead did fine. And recently Tar with this Femme Fatal character again, while there are NUMEROUS male conductors who have on record done exactly what no female conductor even could do, since none of them have held such a position. And it really has nothing to do with classical music the weird banter supposedly involving it, the end is quite anti-asian. It’s just convenient to use a woman as such a character, because of what sells, and then Cate Blanchet jumps for it. What I think is that Amber Heard had to deal with a guy so full of controlled substances on both sides of the counter, that when reality kicked in regarding what he actually would do when his short term memory was turned off by the controlled substances, and he wouldn’t nor couldn’t remember behavior that otherwise might have been nothing but a dream while asleep in his bed, a dream that would just be a dream, not behavior aggressively grating against his image, and provoking such guilt he wouldn’t be able to deal with remembering it. Feelings he doesn’t know how to deal with, that Hollywood isn’t helping with, that the media isn’t helping with, that his psychiatrist and the drugging doesn’t help with, that the mafia he gets his drugs from doesn’t help with, that the alcohol and cigarettes don’t help with, nor the other legal substances. That’s what I think. And what’s sad is that if he really wanted to offer food for the multitudes, would he actually realize what the substance abuse lead to, and the psychiatric drugs, and the image games and addictions, and saw what the result was, and acknowledged it, then he’d truly be making change. That’s what I think, would I have an opinion of what really happened. Same as Brad Pitt would he actually state openly about his homosexual feelings, despite image marketing….
As commodities go, and then we have the mental health system.
I’ve posted about this stuff, but then asked Steve to remove the posts. But then reading about this book, a best seller that Oprah and Obama found one of their best reads, that supposedly is an amazing scientific piece of detective work. And what I’ve been through regarding, I thought OK. I’m not going to hold this back anymore.
YES it’s a very compelling issue. So compelling and people want such an answer, want to know what’s going on, and want so much to be heroes that it doesn’t matter to what extent they get it quite wrong, and end up being EXTREMELY insensitive without knowing it…..
THANKS, registered for this site, I needed that!
It’s like worthless to try to take some of this stuff seriously, except it’s so tragic how it affects others.
“Immaterial thought” what is that supposed to be? It’s amazing how certain “scientists” come up with the idea that physical matter (including the brain with this) precluded existence. “Somehow” all the building blocks of atomic reality were just floating around bouncing around with each other till TADA they came together enough in stars planet and interacting there that our bodies and “THE BRAIN” was formed. And if anything goes wrong with “thought” it’s because of the brain. One can go on about this to such a degree that there’s no rest, but when someone takes a break they might find some peace, is this then “immaterial thought” to put two and two together and try something different?
Real science has different ideas about it. Even something as crude as the obsession with “black holes” and “the big bang” points out matter came from somewhere and wasn’t just floating around by chance till said physical object was formed, although that there is any purpose or reason behind it can’t be entertained. I won’t even go into it, the science of the connection between “immaterial thought” and physical reality. God Forbid. Apparently it’s crazy enough to say take a break from your obsession regarding THE BRAIN as needing to be the object. As object go that aren’t allowed to speak for themselves, since evidence of what you’re doing to THE BRAIN the whole time is dismissed for what?
When anyone says that “mental illness” is real, and thus it “MUST BE” because of “THE BRAIN,” and then upon “treating” the brain have caused the very thing they say they were treating, which is a chemical imbalance, this also correlated with a spike in the problem (despite the excuse being that we have to lie about where the chemical imbalance comes from so people take their meds), and less recovery, more relapsing, more disability, loss of life expectancy, paranoia against normal responses to trauma that could otherwise be understood, normal responses to challenges in cognition, normal responses to environmental problems all of this is pushed to the side because it has to be “THE BRAIN”….. And you have to lie about this chemical imbalance being treated, or people won’t take their meds, and what’s already listed won’t follow, to point out how much of a problem this is with THE BRAIN, but deny the cause…..
And then we hear that the brain is a mysterious thing, we don’t really know how it works (all to excuse everything that this process has shown to do to it, and that it disable and damage it), and “we are making headway.” Or talk of compelling evidence.
What does “immaterial thought” have to do with this? There’s clear cause and effect that one isn’t supposed see, but instead believe in what?
Anyone not disrupting the brain is entertaining “immaterial thought” and…..
Here are enough brains to go with it” https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2005/06/30/a-dispute-over-brain-donations/64e213dd-3c69-4e7c-acce-a6f25b0eef03/
Or you can indulge in this amazing AMAZING smorgasbord:
Evolving Brains, Emerging Gods: Early Humans and the Origins of Religion Hardcover ā September 5, 2017
by E. Fuller Torrey (Author)
“Based on an idea originally proposed by Charles Darwin, Torrey marshals evidence that the emergence of gods was an incidental consequence of several evolutionary factors. Using data ranging from ancient skulls and artifacts to brain imaging, primatology, and child development studies, this book traces how new cognitive abilities gave rise to new behaviors. For instance, autobiographical memory, the ability to project ourselves backward and forward in time, gave Homo sapiens a competitive advantage. However, it also led to comprehension of mortality, spurring belief in an alternative to death. Torrey details the neurobiological sequence that explains why the gods appeared when they did, connecting archaeological findings including clothing, art, farming, and urbanization to cognitive developments. This book does not dismiss belief but rather presents religious belief as an inevitable outcome of brain evolution. Providing clear and accessible explanations of evolutionary neuroscience, Evolving Brains, Emerging Gods will shed new light on the mechanics of our deepest mysteries.
Animals by the way, without this “ability” to “project” themselves backwards and forwards in time, let alone conjure up “gods” when there is a Tsunami coming, they somehow know it and get out of the area. they actually can predict natural disasters quite dependably. They also have been tested to show signs that they know when their “owners” are on the way home, and have all sorts of other amazing abilities….
How does this work with “immaterial thought?”
For some reason editing comments is turned off, which before was an interim when work was being done on this site.
I wanted to add in my prior comment that it seems a bit cruel to categorize these vulnerable people with psychiatric diagnosis, and then go about seeing whether they “recover,” from it. It’s like going to a war zone where there’s lack of basic necessities, put who is missing what in different categories, not attend to what they need, and then decide who doesn’t die from the lack of it as having “recovered” from said disease.
Sorry, but find it hard to see people treating a whole conglomeration of extremely vulnerable people, people who already statistically have been lied to regarding the cause of what’s labeled as a disease, not really inform them of what they needed to know before they ever ended up on the other side of the discussion with said “mental health” clinician, and then evaluate how they are doing. I find it hard to file this as “science.”
Do we get to vote on the recovery rate of psychiatrists, possibly having realized that the bulk of their education is grounded in an ideology that doesn’t pan out: their “treatments” cause chemical imbalance rather than treat it?
And what are the levels of recovery? And what are the symptoms? If a person has seen said ad on TV, or talked to a counselor or social worker, and has been told they should be on meds, is the psychiatrist going to even actually tell them the truth regarding the medications: how addictive they are, how they disable natural brain functions, how they correlate statistically with less recovery and more relapsing, loss of life expectancy, and of course phobia against symptoms that are suppressed rather than an attempt is made or even allowed to understand them!?
And what are the symptoms?
1) They think the chemical imbalance theory is a necessary fairy tail akin to Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny and does no harm despite the statistics in its correlation with less recovery, loss of life, and more relapsing.
2) They get floridly philosophical, disregarding the grounded science that shows the dangers of psychiatric drugs, will haul out “evidence” of a whole array of “clients” they feel are helped, deny that said clients aren’t even allowed to express it when the “method” isn’t helping, as they would be seen as non compliant; and then also angrily accuse anyone pointing out the naked statistics and science of not helping, while denying that alternative methods not allowed have been shown to be more effective.
3) Lack the ability to question whether they are helping, become aggressive and show signs of depression, manic depression, bipolar (when they are in charge they get manic, when it’s not working depressed), schizophrenic (no ability to see true perspective regarding the reality of cause and effect with their treatment) when their method fails, or “clients” show signs of dissent and possible look towards ways of disabling their own brain from the stress of having to actually use it.
I’m trying to be funny, but this is tragic. There are multiple stories of families who find their loved one imprisoned by the system, and they can’t do anything to get the system to stop destroying their loved ones lives, and then their loved one dies, clearly affected by the mental health system emotionally or filled with such toxic medications that the treatment killed them, only to have this billed as a tragedy needing more of the treatment that exactly caused the problem and the loss.
Voting happens in a democracy, but this is more a totalitarian system.
And all the rest of it. Substances that are highly addictive, not acknowledged as giving harsh withdrawal symptoms, no attention to withdrawal, and then the whole cocktail changed when symptoms the psychiatrists have no ability to understand aren’t suppressed. People forced on said “medications” they can’t refuse, then used in clinical trials and abruptly taken off of the medications to have the withdrawal symptoms listed as signs of the disease, while none of what is listed as the disease would be occurring without the “treatment.”
Birdsong, I know. I agree. I was just getting a bit cross-eyed trying to read stuff, and just mentioning something that’s made out to be what it isn’t, I lost an ability to know which way “the word” was going. “Miracle.” The gist is, if you simply get to know it for what it is, it’s like anything else people try to brainwash you regarding. And if you get something out of it, they immediately modulate to finding another reason it helped when it challenges their fixated ideas of how things should be.
And the poor girl who had been born into a satanic cult, she was so disruptive that I asked others if they could find a place for her, which apparently I shouldn’t have. she had started making things up, and then actually told me she was using the sound of the fan to do that. THAT was enough. Maybe I should have handed her some paper so she could write down whatever the fan was saying, so I didn’t have to deal with her every ten minutes coming up with some alarmist story, but I was just that tired of it. It had been going on for more than a day, and I had hardly gotten any sleep. And the whole thing is such a melange of all sorts of people, the mental health system, and then people in the mental health system who then use it as an excuse to control others, while they rebel against it when it suits them, but then other times reflexively have someone committed with push button ease, or go on “medications” to avoid making themselves vulnerable to themselves, they don’t know how to let go of all of the machinery society has put in their reflexes, as if they need the petty rewards they get with such game theory. She had been running all sorts of people ragged. Others told me that she needed to go someplace to save a cat of hers, and having taken her miles to another city it wasn’t to be found. A lot of that could have been withdrawal symptoms from psychiatric drugs. Who knows. Someone else, who was by then at times a raging alcoholic who also did street drugs, because he felt that they he had control over his brain chemistry in contrast to psychiatric drugs, he had gotten her to stop taking all of her drugs. I imagine the psychiatrist who supposedly had integrated her personalities had gotten her on a whole cocktail of them. The girl ended up being committed, and her case manager actually called me up asking me where she was, although I hear they aren’t supposed to inform someone when there is a petition out against another, only in severe situations I hear then again. I didn’t know where she was, but when she was being processed which I somehow found out, after being abducted in to the asylum, I actually called up there, to let her know she could come back over here. But in the asylum, they actually connected me up with someone working there processing her, which they weren’t legally allowed to do, and he actually tried to ridicule me: “She has a petition against her, so I don’t think YOU can help her,” he says to me. He wasn’t even supposed to talk to me. It was illegal, actually at that point. I then later had talked to her psychiatrist who supposedly integrated her personalities, and he actually laughed about it, and made a remark about doing things legally, as if this was funny. Makes one wonder what else they think is “normal.”
All put together, it’s like it’s forcing one to see that SOMETHING ELSE must be taking caring of things, and its best to practice non attachment, and trust the Universe, and enjoy life instead of getting involved in it all.
I actually haven’t heard from her, or about it her since then. Was that 2007 or 2008? I don’t even know. The things you encounter going on with the mental health system, and I could go on and one about it. All the pretenses that “something” needs to be done, and all of the ways that people disassociate from what the actual results are of this URGE they have to do something, being relieved just to do something while completely not caring to see the results.
I could go on all sorts of tangents, what I’ve encountered. The most bizarre things the mental health system does.
It’s unbelievable to what degree this society worships fear, and the ability to control other people with it. The results being things going on no one would believe for thinking these people trained to traumatize others are some sort of salvation. And when things go wrong, they think they need more of it. Same as psychiatry with it’s war against the brain, any time they brain actually expresses that trauma doesn’t work, that it’s not a means towards sanity……This society is then so bent and addicted to using trauma as a means to control human behavior, that people go ballistic when someone just shows a bit of color outside of the allowed hues of behavior. And thus you have the penal system with the Supreme brainwashed pundits (Court) that have shut down Roe versus Wade, where two of the judges clearly were exposed to be sexual predators before they were “approved,” and what the military does invading anywhere that doesn’t bow down to the economic games of the powers that be, and then academics controlled by the same, and viola “religions.” I had some idea that people active in a satanic cult had some sinister aspect to them. This poor girl had told me how he father had impregnated her sister, by raping her, the poor sister had a child, and the father murdered the baby in front of the whole family with a knife, telling them that that is what would happen if they left the cult. I asked her what those people were like, as if they had some dastardly aspect to their behavior, like you see actors take on. The guy in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire who played the servant of Voldemoort that had gotten it so far that Harry would end up in the graveyard so Voldemoort could to his spell to revive his “body.” David Tennant was that actor. He then would move his tongue like a snake, as if this expresses evil, or any other of the characterizations that go on. But the girl answered real simply, with no affect at all.
“What are those people like?”
“Just like anyone else….”
You wouldn’t believe how in simply experiencing for myself what “mental illness” is, so I know myself. Having gone through it rather than being a tourist. You wouldn’t believe how many “actors” that can come into my city, which is big enough to be a city but there never are any paparazzi, how many actors I’ve encountered, having somehow heard about me, and my talk about having past lifetime memories of “Vaslav Nijinsky,” what kind of bizarre interest turns up with them. People I have never had ANY conversation with regarding a feeling I had about a past lifetime, suddenly referring to me by that name, and then even male top billed actors making sexual advances towards me, as if I’m some exploitation for their repertoire of human experience, although they aren’t out at all regarding their homosexual feelings and desires. As if it’s some means to keep them happy so they can project this image of “happiness” and being human, but it’s too much for them to actually go out into the spaces that the vulnerable people who actually life such compelling issues find themselves, just because they actually are that human. And then doing it in a way that actually would have rehashed the kind of sexual exploitation, insensitivity, and intrigue that ruined “Nijinski’s” life. In ways it is SO bizarre! Because the issue is THAT compelling, society can’t really escape it, and these eager “celebrities” think it their duty to act compassionate about it, while being so full of themselves and their image that their behavior does exactly the opposite. And it becomes a desire to act out this compelling issue, but they wouldn’t know how to relate to the reality of it, beyond making a Hollywood commodity out of it.
Sorry, I’m rather all over the place, but just trying to respond to such nonsense I end up all over the place. Trauma is trauma, it’s not a means towards population control, and neither does one win a war against one’s oppressors by using the same process they used to traumatize you. Miracles actually transcend that. Something does happen when you step out of investing in using fear, trauma, coercion and physical violence to control people. And there is ample evidence that such a shift occurs. That’s something different than believing in “magic” because it makes you feel relieved. That’s what snake oil salesmen do, and lately the mental health system.
Wow, you really brought up a can of worms here.
Not only was this wonderful man, I already mentioned, put into an asylum, because he resonated with reality enough that miracles would happen, but then of others the āChurchā still has this kind of stuff to say: https://www.catholicdoors.com/isit/isit05.htm The real story of Leaholof is then here: http://leaholof.blogspot.com/ She did nothing but help a whole immense collection of people. It was from a lady in charge of āCampus Ministryā at a local āCatholicā college, who when I shared that Leaholof exists (and she had gone to colleges to show miracles happens), it was from her I heard this bizarre remark: āthatās just too different.ā Leaving me with a hoard of other stuff regarding this ācollegeā that āministryā and the rest Iām bypassing, regarding their āsociety.ā Back to an actual miracle worker. I talked with her PA a few times, and he explained how the church wouldnāt let her do healing get togethers in their church, and the wry elitist even sarcastic tone this went on with. I talked to Leah once on the phone, out of nowhere. I was calling the phone of her PA and she answered, but it was a rather stressful occasion. If I get into all of that Iām all over the place, wondering where to start. A friend of mine had gone off on a binge to another state (her father lived there) and she was over the deep end, she let someone else have access to her house for the time being, and he had met this girl in an asylum, who he brought to the house. This poor girl had been born into a satanic cult, and had numerous multiple personalities. She told me that they had been integrated, with help of a psychiatrist, but I donāt know about that given the history Iāve yet to go into. I donāt remember exactly what happened, I think that the girl, whose house it was had come back into town (after being committed out of state, and it not helping her, she later committed suicide, which I shared here https://www.madinamerica.com/2023/01/hashtag-involuntary-commitment/#comment-204889). Regardless, for some reason the other poor girl who had been born into a satanic cult, had somehow gotten out of it (thatās a whole story involving foster care, and people who donāt believe such things exist, and multiple levels of denial) and had been taken in somewhere else, but it wasnāt working out. She had become paranoid, exhibiting signs of the kind of torture she had been through. In satanic cults, one of the things they do is make a person unconscious with altered substances, and then upon waking try to convince them they did something horrible which there is evidence of, all to control a person with guilt, and thus get them to go along with the cult or they might be exposed. She consequently constantly was making out something was going on, or that someone else was making out something was going on which wasnāt, and the police would be at the door from false reports. I found this out, because I tried to help her, and took her in. I really didnāt know the difficulties in such situations, and had this grandiose fantasy I could change the world and help such a person. In the midst of all of this, I called Leaholofās number. And she answered. I told her about this girl, and she mentioned making her whole, and understood without having to be told, what was going on. She also mentioned a few other things which still resonate with my life, immensely. What happened after that, and took me years to integrate, was that at one point, after talking with Leaholof, I wanted to share the instructions Leah has on a healing tape, in order to get into the healing energies. She leads you through to a point where thereās a light there, and you can let go of anything thatās ever been bothering you, in your life. I felt I needed to tell this girl to do that, but she responded: āIāve been doing that for the past half hour.ā And did this with the innocent happy voice of a child, like you often here from a child, when you tell them something while their own instincts already have done all of that. The kind of voice that reminds one about the goodness of life, and that everything is taken care of. For years, before I got it, I thought she was just pretending, but having had the same kind of experiences with thoughts coming out of nowhere in the void of having to come through the kind of swamp of incoherence āsane thoughtā makes out of whatās real and what isnāt, I know thatās not the case. This healing works from a place where there was such a connection. Because it exists. And this girl, instead of being a victim to the extend that would call on I donāt know what would solve the problem, only making it worse, something else was there.
For years and years and years, her healing tape, which I recorded onto a CD, would be there when I needed something to sooth me.
You can read her PAās story on the link I shared. Thatās all an extremely bleak remnant of a person who doesnāt even have a WIKI page (multiple true miracle workers donāt: Gene Egidio doesnāt, although he traveled to Russia and all over the plant and got the Russian cosmonaut medal. Charlie Goldsmith doesnāt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-gQ6oBDpB4 , Dean Kraft doesnāt http://www.deankrafthealer.com/ , Michael Stellitono doesnāt https://www.myindependencereport.com/michael-stellitano-energy-healer-and-author/ and then others who do are then treated with the same disrespect as Gene Egidio did as a child, when he was put in an asylum, supposedly ādebunkingā true science)ā¦ After getting involved with spiritualism (which I wouldnāt advise people to do, if they are insecure socially the same as any āreligionā because of the bizarre āsocialā behavior one encounters) I did go to see a true healer, a Filipino āpsychic surgeonā and knew afterwards that 20 years had been added to my life, or the amount of time neuroleptics statistically take off of someoneās life. And then just knowing such reality exists on the planet, that youāre not abandoned, that there isnāt this harsh wall between you and potential, that you can let go of the worldās way of thinking and thereās something else there, I think that THAT saved me from predatory behavior from the mental health system. Somehow, I was always able to gain some sort of gentle detachment or balance, leaving the mental health system incapable of force treating me. THAT in contrast to the horror one encounters say with a āreligion.ā
Thereās a healer lady Carol Everett, who recently helped me pick up the pieces. She also has scientific evidence thatās just simply dismissed. This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD7tQC_H9eY and this one (you have to sign into youtube to confirm your age because the lady receiving the healing is filmed naked, I think because thatās easier for the thermal imagery monitoring the healing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=391Wi37YliY. Carol, then, in her sanctuary, has the simple requirement that one meditates twice a day for 20 minutes, or once for 40 to receive the healing energies, and it worked for me. Not only a physical condition that present āmedicalā institutions wouldnāt have been able to help me with went away (have the x-rays to prove it) but also when I now wake up and meditate, it does dissolve the stress of having to deal with what I have to deal with. The ALARM one encounters with a diagnosis, the amount of social PHOBIA, and people acting really weird and paranoid, saying horrible things about you behind your back, or when youāre there but make their remarkds directed at others so you hear them in order to make you think thereās something wrong with you, or let you know if you do anything they can consider ācrazyā theyāll jump on it like someone wanting to win the lottery, this can be EXTREMELY distressing. Or they start lying, thinking thereās a danger thatās not really there, but they have the right to make out it is, and add their own lies so others will believe it and take action on whatās not going on. And the anxiety of trying to find a means of still finding peace in the world because of it, meditating for 20 minutes helps me let go of the anxiety that might make me so on edge Iām not doing stuff that really leads towards finding peace. Well, obviously Carol also doesnāt have a WIKI page, although she certainly deserves one.
Iām leaving off for now so I can catch a bus, but I could go on for quite awhile about such stuffā¦.. And in posting this I notice there’s something I was going to add, which I haven’t, but will when I get back.
Birdsong, I’m a bit lost…. who is saying what isn’t a miracle? Psychiatric drugs, no I don’t really see they are…. (!?)
Anyhow, this guy here, who helped me be able to shed a physical condition, he was put in an asylum as a child, given shock therapy once a week for a year, because “THE DEVIL” had given him special gifts, and miracles just happened around him. He tells his story: https://youtu.be/g9edB02jWP0?t=711
No believing in something in which there is no evidence is fanaticism, and cult forming etc. when this goes beyond simple natural thought, feelings and experience. I don’t know since WHEN what “OTHERS” define as having no evidence constitutes some greater faith, when regarding all manner of things there IS enough evidence, it’s just dismissed. So believing in something there’s no proof for becomes what!?
Oh, the irony….
That is JUST like for example “Christians” to go on about everything they “believe” in, but when a miracle actually happens, you hear: “that’s just too different,” even when there’s ample scientific evidence. Something I have ample times experienced in different ways, and yes there’s evidence enough that they simply are dismissing what’s really going on (or look at the Catholic church’s behavior even to their saints), even what founded their “belief.” Added to that I’m not going to go on that Jesus is the one, the only one, or even that he’s the best investment regarding miracles. It’s just that they DO happen, and there is evidence. That they don’t, THAT would be believing in something that doesn’t exist.
Or then we have “psychiatrists” going on about chemical imbalances, but it’s just too “unfounded” for them to actually SEE that they are causing them, because of what the “institution” says regarding such phenomenon. EVEN when the most prevalent evidence regarding chemical imbalances involved with the mental health system is those CAUSED by their “treatment.”
So one can go on about irony now…..
Thought by itself is immaterial, however its results aren’t necessarily so. It’s like “scientists” going on about who knows what, as if there’s no source for the material world, beyond what it’s going to tell them when they keep bothering it, even when science tells them what actually happens in the Quantum world regarding “observation,” with the wave-particle “duality.” Something again which constitutes a bunch of words put together because there’s supposed to be “evidence” somewhere in a box, but the evidence pointing out anything organic towards such is dismissed. So it has to be one or the other, and when it acts as both it’s not something else entirely the whole……
I have to agree, with the concept that even the new age, or yoga teachers, or meditation teachers, or others, they really so often can’t help a person when they float into the place beyond linear time, which is actually natural, but so often listed as psychosis. The symbolism, the essence actually of why “fictions” or “mythologies” or “legends” exist, is then instead called “non-reality based” and the rest of such nonsense. Just because people would have to look deeper at what the mind expresses when it goes into the machinery that determines the play-out, the labyrinth, the momentum of time, itself, beyond the physical ability the senses have to determine what they can’t see but only feel or express with harmonics, imagery and symbolism.
“Religion” and “psychiatry” seem to be in the same boat as indoctrination rather than simply listening, being curious, and SHUTTING UP with their attempts at programming rather than allowing and showing decent curiosity!
I want to know whether Torrey takes ADHD medications just to keep himself fixated on stuff that doesn’t have to have anything to do with reality beyond that to certain people it “sounds” good.
That homelessness comes from a chemical imbalance, in a city which entertains Wall-street, and all of the hedge-funds and the rest, that’s majorly delusional. Let alone that the chemical imbalance theory hasn’t panned out statistically or scientifically since it was forced on the populace, how much does it serve to suppress the stories, the reality, the experience, the suffering, the disregard, the dismissal, the disenfranchisement the abuse and the suppression of voices that truly have something to say about society and what would need attention if it cared about everyone, and not just those having sold their humanity to dehumanizing rewards.
I read this, and was a bit awash trying to see how to respond.
I think that it’s really about “gross institutions,” and although religions in general end up being such, this isn’t all that happens there in “religions”. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard a religious fanatic say “this isn’t a religion,” added to that, in order to make out they have a flexibility that’s not there. When it’s known that religions tend to be about fanaticism, make sure when being one of those [fanatics] you say you’re not promoting a religion. Sort of like the “Clean air Act” or “No Child left Behind,” or the war against terror, or the mental health system.
People think that it’s a comfort to have things “easy,” so someone comes up with something that sounds good, and they think they have an answer. Push button logic. “Religion” does the same. Make out “God” must be some I don’t know what kind of authority, and when you appease him with a “sacrifice” this supposedly makes sense. Same as just pop a pill, and that sounds like you’ve done something responsible.
I completely don’t understand this need to pamper people’s delusional fetishes that they’ve done something, the one result being that anyone actually detaching from what’s going on enough that they aren’t adding to as Charles Dickens put it “how not to do it” https://www.panarchy.org/dickens/circumlocution.html , they are seen to be in high offense of whatever it is the mob is doing to make sure it’s part of how not to do it.
And everyone is anxious as hell, and those with supposedly sane anxiety might be the most delusional, because they think that how not to do it is what keeps things going around, which the rest of the mob chimes in with, and puts it on the pedestal of what’s appropriate in society, gives rewards for it, has parades to honor those doing such, names streets and national Holidays after it. At least those with an “anxiety disorder” express that there’s really something not quite right regarding what we’re all supposed to be doing…..
I read this article yesterday. And was thinking about responding, but then today reading the comments I encountered exactly what explains peopleās reticence.
Iāve never been forced committed. Never committed at all. Not even forced on medications or taken them. Not in this incarnation, anyhow. Iāve had problems with substances that I would resort to without knowing it that might cause whatās labeled as āpsychosis:ā coffee and nicotine, but not even those are acknowledged, nor would the mental health system look with any diligence regarding them, as to whether they are mitigating factors. In reality it was looking at why I couldnāt see cause and effect, why I would be gravitating towards substances that would turn off the left part of my brain enough that it became an attraction. And that takes being allowed to have room to look into stuff that can become extremely uncomfortable, although pushing them away might be even more uncomfortable, although you get rewards for it. But itās been YEARS till I have found enough balance to actually address extreme discriminatory alarmist reactions to me. When too many people, in this age, think you have some sort of a psychiatric disease, there are a whole list of behaviors that anyone without such a stigma can be exhibiting without encountering the alarm. And Iāve seen this used time and time again against others who WERE force incarcerated and ātreated.ā and/or lost their civil right or self determination. A girl who grew up in Chicago simply wanting to go back there, people that dressed differently than ānormal,ā people driving a car in a way that seemed reckless although they never caused an accident (and there are numerous accidents caused because of a person on a psychotropic medications, which isnāt reported), someone doing street drugs (imagine anyone ever having done street drugs all ending up in the asylum), someone having a belief that her dead mother speaks to her through nature (a bird); and Iām holding back from listing the whole plethora of misinterpretations I received from one specific person. Anything I did could be misinterpreted, lies added to spice up her paranoia, and literally ANYTHING. And in other places, a person could be unprofessional towards me, or actually sexually harassing me given the context, and this is overlooked because it made me respond in a way that could be determined to be āpsychotic,ā and then itās listed as āinappropriate.āAs if people sexually harassing you or being highly unprofessional needs to be seen as ākindnessā by someone who it might cause to become āpsychotic.ā
Eleanor Longdon mentioned in her Ted talk how when she was working at a radio station, mentioned this to her psychiatrist as a reason why she needed to leave, he listed that as a delusion that she “thought” she worked at a radio station. He wouldnāt know whether she was working at a radio station or not, doesnāt realize he canāt know that, is putting down inaccurate discriminatory slanderous data, and this is all overlooked because this person is ācrazyā and might be doing āsomething.ā And I have yet to see someone put in an asylum without there being such stuff going on. Someone gets paranoid, believes fill-in-the-blank could be going on, makes out it is when it isnāt, and there you goā¦.
One girl I watched get put in an asylum, when she was trying to get away from the people bullying her that they would do that and had tried to take off on my bike but couldnāt because it was locked, ripped her ankle ligament in the process, she suddenly was made out to be running around naked. She wasnāt, although when they had trespassed into her house, and I had called there upon them answering, and told them she clearly didnāt want them in her house, that when I got such a sarcastic response upon mentioning Iād call the police, I didn’t. When I later called the police when an officer was at her house, I wanted to inform them how the neighbors had trespassed into her house, and used her phone to call her case manager, the non emergency police told me she had been running around naked (she hadnāt been), and so there were lies to the police, again. none of this was checked either. I didn’t know at that time that the police were giving me false information. Her ankle ligament in the asylum was never treated, although her leg was swollen up to the knee, but she was so doped up she wouldnāt know whether she was taking her medications or not, and what difference it would make one way or the other, to be let out and re-admitted. Then they wouldnāt believe she had been raped in the interim, she instead was accused of being too provocative by a nun, who you can imagine what would be too natural for her, and put in restraints for urinating because of the medications. And then after she got out, within a few months she committed suicide. Although I had told her mother if you have her committed I think youāre going to lose her. She then actually had taken someone in at one point years prior, and had him committed, when all she had to do was tell him to leave. Years before this, she had gone on a rampage in Massachusetts, and would assault anyone with the fact that she had a mental illness, and expect them to give her money. The result of forced drugging, and not having the strength to ditch being ānormalā enough to stop thinking she needed her own āchoiceā of them. Time again, she would lean towards a drug solution, and as statistics show, after an interim youād have everything that was suppressed emerge again. Iām supposed to say that things get worse, but if she had actually dared to look into ditching being normal, shedding a whole array of game theory needs, looking into alternative treatments, things could have gotten better, and she could have ditched what was keeping her going round in circles. Had the same occurence again, I heard recently. Happened to a family whose motherās mother trying to help the movement to end racism in the 50s or so, she encountered enough trauma to end up in an asylum, the daughter was made to think it was some treatment, half of her family got the same knee jerk reaction when she got married,had children, there was trouble and they were and put on ātreatmentā, and when she and her husband died, another family member (this is a grand daughter of the original poor lady incarcerated) got a check in the mail for 100,000 dollars because of investments they didnāt know were there (the mother was extremely senile towards the end of her life and so wouldnāt know), and she decided to buy a house for her brother, who had been in and out of institutions for over 30 years. This brother was the same guy the girl I mentioned before had put in an asylum, when all she had to do was tell him to leave. HE was so messed up and confused and angry he sounded at times like a synthetic intelligence program criticizing anything to find some self worth, decided that street drugs was how he could control his chemistry rebelling against psychiatric oppression, and then the alcoholism. I told his sister that he wouldnāt know what to do with a house, he didnāt value that, he needed something different. It simply sounded shockingly unrealistic to me. All that came to pass also, I heard recently. Took about a year. They had to restore the house, and sell it. He ended up in the asylum, which by now probably with all of the times he was institutionalized adds up to maybe enough money given the totality of times he was put in the asylum, that a whole array of houses could have been bought instead for homeless people. People that would value the house. These are now being forced on treatment in New York.
That whole horrible āparagraphā of stuff to denote just some of the stuff one encounters being involved with people in such a system, when youāre also dealing with it, but not trapped in it and can have perspective. How life becomes ācolored.ā I still canāt believe conversations Iāve had recently with people, and find how they just spell out symptoms, as if this is a call for something to be done, while their own trust in the system is way worse than what they are pointing their finger at regarding others. Someone talking about another, I donāt even know, as having grandiose thinking, whileā¦. I was supposed to believe this (!?)
Iām still overloaded with the lies and distortion Iāve encountered. As if thereās something wrong with being human rather than a fabrication of beliefs that push all of that to the side, as if any response not robotic and fear based has something wrong with itā¦ā¦ Literally ANY response that’s natural.
I AM able to put that all on the line now, though. Am doing that, and will continue. I can only imagine what itās like for anyone that has been committed.
People like Gina Fournier, and the others. Makes me cry. Hang in there. Don’t give up in being human….. there is something beyond all of it that remains free….. don’t give up….
force medicating people hasn’t statistically caused a lessening of the problem it is said to eradicate.
And people who aren’t following such a method are not going to end up in an asylum, added to that those there aren’t allowed to disagree with said method when you say you bring “Mad in America” ideas them, ideas you haven’t at all shared with us regarding what you say you offered or “brought” to those in an asylum. What you’ve done is quite harshly called people insane when they point out the cause and effect of what goes on in an asylum, and that it correlates with the spike in the problems you seem to think is going to be fixed there, but hasn’t been. And yet you say you “brought’ “Mad in America” ideas to the asylum.
“I read an essay here once defending leaving a woman unmedicated [SIC] to the point that she was lying down on a bridge in rush hour traffic. Thatās, um, insane.” What’s “insane” is denying the correlation with the spike in such problems and mainstream drugging: forced, coerced, and promoted. Only I shirk from using the word insane to describe such harsh denial, a person that’s “insane” would be more flexible in their thinking.
I don’t think the person you describe as lying down on a bridge in rush hour continues to do this regularly, although what goes on in an asylum as “treatment” does continue regularly, and regularly causes the spike in the problems. Or the rest of the symptoms you hurl at us as excuse for what clearly correlates with the spike in them to be denied.
This is quite rude, to deny all of the well thought out material on this website, supporting statistics, supporting clear science (this is something different than saying “medications” that cause chemical imbalance treat it, and when after an interim of symptoms being suppressed by the brain being disabled there’s more of the problem that there’s need for more “medications” when not only other methods not allowed correlate with recovery instead, the initial setup of the asylums the Quakers had, and where the name comes from, before the whole bio-medical method, also had more recovery), and material on this website supporting perspective, supporting free choice, all the rest of it HERE on this website. To ask someone what their strategy is, as if there’s not ample information on this site supporting alternative methods, and expect someone to spit out in one comment all of that. When in reality you are trying to make out anyone supporting all the clear evidence is not reality based, because that’s not the mainstream method, regardless of the statistics from said “method.”
There’s a difference between what is made out to be the solution, and statistics. And no, it’s not going to excuse the statistics to pound on that anyone not supporting the standard method and thus disregarding science and statistics, that they aren’t supporting a working strategy.
If you ask a question, you do need to want an answer to it, not just a whole mob echoing what you want to hear so you don’t have to take perspective on what’s going on.
Again listing symptoms of what in reality medications as a method of treatment have caused such an epidemic of that it’s caused a spike in such occurrences in order to validate that “treatment” is necessary, and anyone pointing out there’s a different way is not reality based. This shows who has a problem with science, with reality based treatments, with statistics, and acknowledging what’s effective and what isn’t.
“I read an essay here once defending leaving a woman un-medicated to the point that she was lying down on a bridge in rush hour traffic. Thatās, um, insane.” You’d have to actually leave a little more direction as to which article that was, how you maintain that “medications” would have helped her, what the other person said or the context of what you say would leave a person to lie down on a bridge in rush hour etc. You also leave no room for how much inattention there was to anything BUT “medications,” and whether under scientific scrutiny that DOES solve the problem in a better way WITHOUT forced medicating.
You aren’t acknowledging the statistics. Which also is why there’s the book Anatomy of an Epidemic, or Psychiatry under the Influence. Psychiatric drugs disable natural function of the brain, while this may seem to promote lessening of symptoms for an interim, in the long run this causes more relapsing, added on diagnosis, loss of life expectancy, and the belief that what in the long run has made things worse is the solution. And then there’s the extreme phobia against symptoms that being turned off weren’t understood, there’s the lack of allowing for perspective that might help a person understand their responses rather than suppress them, and this becomes a bit like saying that turning off an alarm is the solution, rather than why the alarm went off and what the cause is for the alarm. All for suppressing symptoms. That people have become so terrified of their symptoms that they vie for the drugs, but not leaving the brain in healthy enough of a state to be able to understand the cause of the symptoms, that is evident, as well as that people who are not allowed to speak against the medications aren’t going to come prancing to you, or to the authorities of the asylum when simply expressing how they really feel could label them as non compliant, and they might endure further “treatment.”
In the beginning the idea of asylums came from (if you would read Robert Whitaker’s books) places the Quakers had set up, where a person indeed got an asylum: they got healthy food, slept well, had daily activities that made them feel alive. This isn’t what’s going on in present day asylums. It also simply doesn’t happen that a person ends up in an asylum without being forced on medications, so whether forcibly committed or not, one isn’t able to determine whether a setting without forcing medications would help, although historically it has shown to help better. The Quaker setup had an immensely higher recovery rate. This becomes a complete Catch 22, when all you do is state that something needs to be done, and then deny that what’s being done clearly correlates with the spike in the problem.
THAT is insane!
Also, when in a setting where people aren’t even allowed to maintain that they know what’s going on with them, can’t refuse treatment; and you state you try to share “madinamerica” ideas with them, and they “tend to” reject them, says you….(what kind of people do you actually engage with, are the people that might agree with madinamerica ideas interested in engaging with you etc.) you might TRY a different environment, where people are encouraged to say what they think and feel, where this is nurtured, where there’s attempt at getting into the workings of what their mind is expressing, even when it’s not understood and labeled as “crazy”, somewhere they actually have free choice to say what they think regardless of the response to life when this isn’t allowed, and regardless that when they aren’t allowed to unburden themselves of stuff that’s otherwise not welcome one gets such responses labeled as symptoms, stuff anyone can go endlessly on about labeling and suppressing while causing more of it by labeling it rather than going one step further into how it’s understood when not treated as something that happened for no reason other than the brain was healthy and needed to be disabled by “medications” said to treat a chemical imbalance while in reality causing one, and also in the meantime correlating with a spike of said “symptoms”….. and then you might be able to determine what’s going on.
People under a coerced situation, not allowed to entertain other methods that statistically offer more recovery without being labeled as non compliant and further coerced and treated with the only thing they are allowed to see as the solution and not question and not rebel against…..even if they agreed with you, somewhere in the quiet of their own mind still left free to think its own thoughts, were they intelligent they might not state what they think, just to make sure no one else hears their response and its reported, and they get further labeled as non compliant…. In fact they might actually not dare to entertain agreeing with you….
Consistently stating the effects of what the “treatment” in reality correlates with causing more of, and saying people are insane who won’t promote that treatment, this shows serious signs of brainwashing…..
It’s like going to a regime where anyone disagreeing with the “authorities” gets labeled as being dangerously dissident, and then asking them something that if they agreed with you would get them in trouble the regime that if nothing else would illicit a fear response from agreeing with, and then stating this shows how much people agree with the regime….
I guess they just don’t have enough money yet to hire Hollywood superstars to make movies yet about a new pill called “Tinkerbell”…. Although there has been a much publicized trial about someone who acted out (years ago in a “movie”) popping something that brought him back to “reality” enough that presently in his “real” life he seems (reportedly with court evidence) to have popped enough on all sides of the bargain that his “Christ” complex has taken such a hold that such “magic” and his “image” clouds over the very thought that all of that could have made him quite violent, to not remember it, and go back to this whole insert-image-name-commodity or not?
And where’s the movie about snake oil salesmen and their time machine? As resurrections, religions and āentertainmentā goesā¦.
Funny thing as it seems as if the ānemesisā exposing all of that is the most googled celebrity the past year…
I wonder if I see now? You are saying that if one would sue the states that are doing these things (calling people who are homeless crazy, as if there’s no reason they are homeless, or then not acknowledging those who are damaged by forced AOT etc.) that then the other states would have to get together to not do that? Or at least the issue would become known…
That’s awfully noble…
I don’t really know what you are referring to regarding “externalities,” because it’s not clear, It sounds as if you are making a sarcastic remark, as if I brought up points which aren’t relevant. That isn’t what I did, and I’m sorry if I misunderstood, but it’s not at all clear from your curt post what you mean. It’s real typical to invest in a solution (put them all in the asylum, the drugs will fix them up), and then regard everything that points out to it not being a good idea as “externalities” or “spurious” or “superficial” or “unrelated” or “irrelevant” or “irrational” or “crazy” or “psychotic” or “emotional.” In reality what becomes “external” is the whole premise that something is valid when it is made out to be founded in logic because it uses mental constructs, and thus conceptually seems that it should work for “something,” while whether it actually works or not is dismissed, because of the constructs. But because it sounds like it’s a process or a method, whether it works or not people are relieved, and this is like turning off a warning signal and acting like the problem is fixed. The warning signal was not an “externality.” This becomes worse when the “solution” actually does damage, even though one thinks these are needed “side effects.” One would be better off handing out magic charms for a placebo effect. People are so addicted to believing medications work when there are side effects, or the no pain no gain philosophy, that they think the addiction is “just side effects,” or “necessary pain for gain,” or even sign of the disease that needs this “solution.” Iatrogenic damage is not from the disease.
If you are referring to what goes on outside of the supposed solution, which is caused by the supposed solution (and so really isn’t “outside” of it at all, but made out to be outside, irrelevant etc), while the “solution” is pared down to those marginal few that it helps but would be helped better by other methods suppressed by the “solution” then yes, those are problems with “externalities.”
As “externalities” go I was referring and am referring to internalities which are cause. From cause and effect. There is only an extreme rise in mental illness, in disability, in violence from people forced on medications, and this was not going on before people were force drugged, were deprived of their civil liberties, we’re lied to that the medications treat chemical imbalance when in reality they cause it by disabling the brain rather than making it healthy. To behave as if what is clearly in collusion with causing the problem, that this is the solution and isolate one small subset of a group while ignoring that the whole group in itself is much worse, this is only adding to the numbers and acting like the small subset advertised as being treated effectively can dismiss the whole rise and the group in its entirety. Furthermore, this also advocates for suppressing methods which not only would help the subgroup better, methods which statistically have proven to do this, but suppresses methods which help more effectively the whole group in its entirety. Advocating for what statistically scientifically and methodically has shown to be more effective that is dealing with cause and effect which is what’s going on at an internal level with the people, and that is what I was addressing. Also I am not interested in forcing anybody to do anything forcing any situation and going against nature rather than with it. Going against nature and using force is what causes the whole problem to begin with rather than listening to people.
This isn’t about treating mental illness. It’s about suppressing insight being given as to how people become homeless. It’s about making people feel comfortable that don’t want to know. It’s about superficiality. It’s no different than acting like promoting “mental health programs” in was zones is going to help, but not promoting negotiations, or exposing the power grabbing going on. Same as Kendra’s law wasn’t about making it less dangerous for the general populace, in that it makes it more dangerous. It covers up the collusion the standard mainstream drugging method has with the spike in mental illnesses. To tend to situations, one has to deal with cause and effect, not deny cause by selecting a fragment of the whole effect of the cause, and then supposedly tending to that, and even would in that little select fragment there be signs of improvement, it’s still an excuse to deny the whole major overlying and underlying cause.
It’s simply not true that people are homeless because they are mentally ill, this denies the whole economic-social abuse that caused their problems.
It’s simply not true that tending to mental health in a war zone actually stops the abuse people encounter, it only makes it out to be a “mental illness” when one has a natural response to an extremely traumatic experience. The same goes for poverty, minority status, and the rest of disenfranchisement: one would have to actually take trouble to stop war, poverty, discrimination and neglect itself.
It’s simply not true that laws like Kendra’s law stop violence, they cover up the collusion psychiatric drugs have with causing violence, they also promote MORE violence towards people with a diagnosis.
To me that sounds simply superstitious. Although that’s pretty normal for a whole mob of “social workers” and seems to be the majority. It’s none of a “social workers” business to decide where a person travels to. I have heard the same weird phobias from other social workers, fortunately not those I had anything to do with, but acquaintances. Anything anyone does, who is considered to have some diagnosis, can be interpreted to be something a social worker, or psychiatrist or “judge” even decides has some negative effect. It’s like one is supposed to sit and stare at the walls, or watch silly inane television the whole day, and be happy when patronized by well meaning people who think they are doing you a favor treating you as if you’re sick, and they are being kind by treating you like you’re incapable of thinking for yourself, have no history you might want to feel empathy for, but have become some object for them to decide as to how you should be behaving, and anything outside of their fixations is part of a “disease.” Do any normal thing, which anyone else does all the time, anything that expresses personal freedoms and on come the labels. I live in Grand Rapids MI, and a girl I knew who grew up in Chicago, and who was in Grand Rapids, and on “meds” that took away any sexual feelings (typical anti-depressants effect for what percentage of people, I’ve seen it listed as 50%), and then a whole other cocktail which wasn’t helping her; and then if she simply wanted to go to Chicago, like anyone else could do, this was a sign of the “bipolar” disease. If she had a friend visit her, her social worker actually SERIOUSLY said she “thought” she was selling herself for sex. Which she wasn’t doing. And then further stuff I won’t go into. It’s like privilege to make stuff up about people, and the right to officiate paranoia for “social workers.” A lot of them are simply completely unable to understand or relate to behavior they’ve been trained to see as symptoms of a “disease.” And others who DO have perspective, who do have insight, who have helped people understand their normal responses towards life, be it trauma, or challenges with cognition, or knowing what is affecting them in diet or other routine activities, they aren’t even allowed to help; when a person has this perspective, and an approach that correlates with recovery rather than a life on drugs, and more disability, relapsing and loss of life after an interim of symptoms suppression, they are labeled as unprofessional, when they don’t first plug in psychiatric pharmaceuticals. I myself actually never went looking for therapy, because I’d seen SO MANY friends being treated in such a fashion, but then I heard about a different place, with a different approach and have been seeing therapists from there for maybe 6 years or so. Maybe seven. It’s in ways just someone to talk to, and they are interested, and I think learn from me, because I’m going through that, and it’s something different than someone being “taught” what’s going on. One “social worker” who I fortunately had nothing to do with, other than she was teaching a parks and recreation’s class; when she was tremendously paranoid, and clearly does this labeling of anything she feels free to erroneously, I heard actually a voice tell me to not even ask her questions after class, to just go there, and leave. But unfortunately, I was disassociating from such paranoia, because it’s hurtful to know how brainwashed people are, and I also knew there was no concern, I wasn’t doing anything, so I didn’t heed that voice. At one point, along with a whole plethora of bizarre false interpretations, and paranoid hostility, she actually said: “I know, he doesn’t hear voices, he sees things that aren’t there, it’s non reality based.” This after a voice was clearly warning me. I could go into all of the symbolism of stuff I thought was going on for one day, and then the next knew it wasn’t, even how the symbolism was perhaps more objective than physical reality, because it had to do with stuff at a soul level it expressed what was going on conceptually same as fiction describes interactions that have meaning, and even themes of a physical miracle I later experienced (13 years later) from what themes are, and what they have to do with life, and why time exists.. That’s just my experience. Everyone has their own, and their own interests, and their own way of relating to their life, but I couldn’t BELIEVE the plethora of bizarre interpretations going on, and ridiculous paranoia, all because she could look into her computer, and see I had some “diagnosis.” The DANGER then actually becomes trusting people that you wouldn’t think are HIGHLY discriminatory. And if you love human nature, as much as people do who make themselves extremely vulnerable expressing that with all these symptoms listed as being from psychiatric diseases, then you aren’t going to judge others, or you don’t want to. In a way it’s simply embarrassing that such paranoia is going on. It’s not different from people brainwashed in the old South regarding that Black people are dangerous, or the rest of the bizarre indoctrinated discriminatory paranoia towards Jews, or Gypsies, or Homosexuals, or Women, or Children when they are simply human…..
I notice, looking at your posts from the comment history, that you also were put on a whole host of meds, and then suddenly, you were left without even any help or information regarding the problems with going off of psychiatric medications, when your psychiatrist lost her license. And that’s simply unheard of in medicine, but it’s standard in “psychiatry.” That’s also how they often rig their “scientific” trials, they put people in the non control group that are addicted to a medication or medications, take them off of it or them, and then call the withdrawal symptoms signs of the disease while those in the control group are “medicated”: and thus clear of withdrawal symptoms. What CLEARLY to anyone actually interest in the science of it, is about withdrawal symptoms, is made to be about an organic disease that genetic or environmental (but NOT the holy psychiatric drugs). There’s no attention to withdrawal symptoms, there aren’t any real official resources to help people get off of highly disabling “medications,” unless you’re a millionaire, although there are the unofficial resources like this site. There’s not even acknowledgement that what’s going on IS withdrawal symptoms, that’s mostly listed as signs of a disease, in fact damage that the DRUGS CLEARLY do, the drug companies have tried to make out that’s the disease. Actual scans showing how drugs for “schizophrenia” swell up the inner core of the brain, and shrink the frontal cortex, this was made out to be from the ‘disease,” until this was corrected. And then your story of simply being dismissed, not even told you’re going to have severe withdrawal symptoms, after seeing a doctor who lost her license. Let alone that there would be a place for you to go for help with withdrawal, or that what was going on would even be acknowledged as withdrawal. What I’ve also seen numerous times as well, with another friend is she’d end up in the asylum, and they’d just “change” her meds, without caring to titrate her off of whatever she was on, already. A person doesn’t even know what’s affecting them anymore. You become some experiment to see what effect they can get from the meds, and the disqualify side effects, withdrawal symptoms, long term iatrogenic damage etc. And you’re not even allowed to try methods that don’t correlate with the spike in the occurrences of mental illness that meds are in collusion with.
And YES MOST social workers, given the way the economy of the drug companies works, are FORCED to take on such. In fact, to simply get ANY money for helping a person with what could be deemed “therapy” and in doing so tell them what the truth is regarding psychiatric drugs, and recommending they get off of them, when there’s problems with withdrawal symptoms, or consequent illicited by it because one told the truth of how the drugs work, you can be sued. But a psychiatrist can force a person on “medications,” when they don’t work and a person commits suicide, which has happened NUMEROUS time with anti-depressants, the psychiatrist isn’t held responsible, they can load a person so full of meds it kills them, force or coerce a person on “medications” that in the end shorten their life span, that after an interim cause more relapsing, and disability, that interfere with their ability to hold a job, and then there’s shock therapy, the loss of memory; and all of the paranoia that the answer has to be someplace that in reality correlates with the current spike in mental illness, and…… THAT is “normal” behavior by a psychiatrist.
And then there’s what happened to you, that you’re not even told you’ll have withdrawal symptoms, and that could have killed you.
I agree incredibly, only I truly question whether politics is going to fix these situations. When society negates the instincts to feel empathy with others, it still remains for a victim to invest in feeling empathy in understanding what’s going on and that also means not demonizing even the people that are victimizing them. When you do that you actually simply create your own life with those that work for you and put your energy in that not and demonizing those who are victimizing you, and I think that works because then you have the energy to do that and that speaks for itself. That also leaves room for the universe to fix the situation, and I think the universe has much more ability than the human ego and how it judges the situation and others. I think a good therapist this is somebody that strengthens their clients in a way so that they have the right to their feelings so that they feel they are heard and listened to and that way you feel you deserve something better. That is something quite different than hating and demonizing your oppressors, you don’t fight fire with fire and that just goes around in circles according to me. And maybe you have to transcend the limitations you’re indoctrinated with probably by the very people that would victimize you.
I’m sorry but you’ve got to be joking. I have seen so many people put in an asylum forced on treatment that has only made things worse exactly because a social worker put them there. There’s also an extreme difference between social work and a social worker. Social work is what somebody does when they fund a soup kitchen when they get affordable housing when they advocate that the government provides money for people that are underprivileged. That is not what a social worker does whatsoever for the most part. LCSW is not a degree involving social work it’s a degree involving psychiatric diagnosis and talking to people in therapy sessions. You might also not try to insinuate that the person who wrote this article is oblivious as to what the term social worker in practice is and means and entails. And then not start a response with: “Do you know what social work is?” Because what that implies is that you’re not going to look at what usually goes on with social workers and try to make out people that see it and call it for what it is have some lack of understanding or insight. Is this also what you do when you diagnose people? Because that’s exactly what this article is about and the lack in the mental health system and social work-ers. And no just because somebody tagged the end of the word work with “er” this doesn’t mean that there is some holy connection between social work and social workers. That’s more a marketing gimmick and also something the whole mental health system is quite full of.
WHY don’t they have a study on the withdrawal symptoms of society, when it’s told the truth about ALL psychiatric drugs, and that they DO NOT treat a chemical imbalance!? Is this akin to being told Santa doesn’t exist, the Easter Bunny doesn’t spread around Easter eggs, or that a benevolent deity (or energy or concept) doesn’t need someone tortured to death in order to allow people into “Heaven!?” And that they would have a wonderful afterlife if that “example” of how to attain it had never been acted out!? Could it be reality or ideas of benevolence don’t need such publicity stunts!? Since I’m going on about “Jesus” again, I understand that in A Course in Miracles, he says he didn’t see himself as being murdered, he didn’t see himself as a victim, he didn’t see himself as being torn, and the rest of it, then says that one either crucifies themselves and it’s not going on on the outside, but to me that still negates the natural instincts one might have to GET OUT of a situation one can escape from, and then practice forgiveness AND experience miracles the natural way of enjoying life, here on the earth, not someplace you would have ended up regardless, without all of the drama. And if he is going to go on about the inside, then there’s dealing with that on the inside, not in “Heaven” and not by fulfilling a “task.” Dealing with having to escape a situation, and the incurring emotions like any refuge has to, is exactly that, THAT happens on the inside, and I think that’s a bit stronger than see me crucified while I deny it as it makes me into a commodity. You can do this as well. HOW MANY of us having to deal with the mental health system have had to simply give up on being part of this acknowledged machinery in “society,” that’s given rewards for being “constructive!?” Might there be a whole other world, that’s also part of nature!? Psychiatric drugs numb the brain, they interfere with natural brain processes, I happen to love my body, and my brain, and am fascinated by it’s responses, even when I was “psychotic” the whole labyrinth of symbolism and insight going on, from the place of no time, evocations of themes and insights regarding life so my reflexes could gain some legroom in expressing where they might have lead to had I not been “psychotic,” stuff I actually avoided rather than to be normal. Even when my body hurts, or my emotions are disturbing, it’s still fascinating. It’s amazing what’s going on. How can you grow finger nails, how can you breath, how does your hair grow, how do you see, feel, taste, love, hate…. all of it. How can my finger hurt when it touches upon a flame, how can I feel love when I hug another person? I don’t see incapacitating the brain from normal functions as part of experiencing a full life. Are there withdrawal symptoms from having incapacitated your brain, whether it’s with chemicals or ideology!?
HALF of people have difficulty getting off of a drug that they were likely lied to regarding how it works and what it really does. That’s what the article says, without even touching upon side effects and the real workings of the drug scientifically. In contrast to the “observation” of those already deciding sadness can be a disease, and that a disabled mind is more healthy when given a chemical imbalance that suppresses said expression of sadness. That while a person is told it’s treating exactly what it causes (a chemical imbalance). And a person is more “happy” with a society that can’t deal with the natural instinctive response called “sadness.” Is “happiness” really such a lie!? A bad fairy tale? The act of being inducted to a society that can’t deal with what’s called sadness which might point out that the indoctrinated “happiness” isn’t quite what it’s made out to be?
Could we START with not lying!? Could we start with not telling magical fairy tales that in the end aren’t magical but predatory towards people wanting to find an answer!?
Well, given that torture is also considered a form of science… I like to think that science is something else… And torture is mind control which is what is going on when you deny the suffering a person goes through in order to what in order to what? This is science when you fixate on ways to deny the suffering and make it out to be a disease? I don’t know what science is supposed to be when that’s included.
This is quite a statement, and really puzzling: “Digital phenotyping has a host of conceptual issues not explored here, but it can be regarded as another example of the the psy-complexās compulsive methodologism, the āuncritical privileging of scientific methodology over other research concernsā.”
I don’t really see that it’s about science, it’s about scientism. Mind control to get people to ignore what a society (whether its Capitalistic, Communist or anything else such as Religious or Social) what that society does to marginalized people by giving rewards to incentivize exploitation, denial, discrimination etc. this isn’t “science” unless you are going to say learning how to deceive people, or buying into deceptions for rewards is science. Neither is the drug companies selling the idea that happiness or being normal, or functional, or fitting into the mob, or even such bizarre things as recovering from shyness to go to the Prom (they actually had commercials on TV promoting anti-depressants for this), you can get this as easy as popping a pill, this isn’t science either, it’s conning people into believing things that don’t pan out (except for drug company profits, which I can’t say is science either, would science have value), and using scientism to do that. And then when things get worse scientism says it’s that they need more pills, rather than seeing cause and effect.
Chemical imbalance comes from the medications, which has been conclusively shown to be true, but it hasn’t at all shown to come from a “disease,” the only “science” involved is that people can be made so alarmed, annoyed, up at arms about the challenge of their emotions, that they will believe such conjurings of false logic. That ISN’T science, neither is it when they use scientism to dismiss what happens to marginalized people, or people in a war zone, or people whose nature is significantly different than the status quo.
For someone to completely not see how homicidal (the loss of life, the creation of chemical imbalances in the name of healing them, the disabling of brains to never be able to figure out what was going on with them so that recovery can take place), and then delusional (you’re creating an epidemic, adding to that doesn’t stop it; you’re CAUSING chemical imbalance and lying to people about it), and then psychotic (if this means non-reality based, that’s also quite abundant see former points),and then use THIS sentence: “I sit here reading this, a retired clinical psychologist, recalling so many family members, distraught because yet again their (son, daughter, father, husband, wifeā¦ etc.) was āwho knows whereā ā psychotic, delusional, homicidal etc. and couldnāt I please ādo somethingā to help them?ā They were frantic.” and then follow it with “I was concerned” without any concern for the truth enough to see it in front of their eyes? I think there are a lot of abused people that would rather be “who knows where,” then with their abusers.
This still made me laugh, how psychiatrists decide someone saying they are Jesus is to them a normal form of “psychosis.” It makes me laugh because it isn’t funny at all. HOW MANY people have they killed with their treatments? What if one of them would resurrect (after dying from treatment), and show up as an angel amongst us? Would the psychiatrist then see that the person wasn’t crazy in the first place? Or would they themselves seek “professional” help? I knew someone who was as big on the drugs she took for her psychiatric “disease” as she was to me quite brainwashed “Christian,” and then one day she had seen “the devil” in the television, and had gone to her psychiatrist who gave her such an upped dose, that her hands were shaking from it. But she found that necessary…..
Bil Wells, I don’t understand what you are trying to say at all. Neither do I see what it has to do with my post. All I can think is that when the word becomes flesh, or a temple, it having been the word first, has no loss in being shared, no such boundaries. You also can share thoughts without any loss, or depletion of any resource. So there really isn’t ANY LIMIT as to who is “the word” that became flesh, or who is “Jesus.”
My point, in MY post was how psychiatrists decide that someone saying they are Jesus, or Napoleon, or whoever they say they are, that they think they can decide that is crazy, without even trying to make sense out of it. Jesus died 2000 years ago, if reincarnation exists there’s no way anyone can determine whether anyone else was that person or not, thus the joke about testing the “ingredients” of someone’s soul. I think I explained that quite well.
I also would appreciate it, when you use the name “Nijinsky” that you spell it correctly. It isn’t “Nijinksy” it’s “Nijinsky.” Could you be that respectful?
There was a person on this site years ago, who used the same misspelling when I and another challenged him on his ideas of original sin, which historically is a plant by the Roman Catholic church, when Christianity had so many followers they couldn’t dismiss it anymore. The same mind control used all over the place with the guise that when you tell people they are under attack (by the “devil” or “original sin”) that you can tell them what to do in order to “save” themselves. It’s not Christian in its philosophy, because that’s actually against what Jesus taught, that there is no sin, that when you see the innocence in everyone, then you see yourself, who you really are, and that’s not a body that needs protection from “evil,” it’s a soul from forever that can’t be destroyed. That’s what Jesus taught me, himself, if you have other ideas of who he is or what he taught that’s your business which you are free to, not mine. You aren’t going to convince me anyone saying they are Jesus, from simply doing that are “crazy” nor are you going to convince me of original since, or that there’s a lake of fire for whoever follows their own truths rather than to be programmed by “Christians”, either.
Ekaterina, this is crazy anyone would get spooky with you, when you say you were Jesus. Ask them to show you the amazing machine that can measure your soul’s capacity, to see whether Jesus is in there are not. How would it measure ingredients? Would that even be spiritual?
Maybe you better not. They might hang you on a cross to die, to see whether you’ll resurrect. (JK!?)
THAT would be interesting. Tell your psychiatrist that you can’t say whether you were Jesus or not, because he might…..
Might it be that ANYONE touching in on the Kingdom of Heaven is Jesus? The same as anyone going to music to allow the emotions of their soul some legroom to express itself might be “Mozart?”
Only if you’re this lonely Citadel of whoever passed away so long ago that he’s not allowed any friends akin to him at all, in order to be “Unique,” only THEN can anyone have been…….
I find this move from the New York “Major” quite offensive, on so many counts:
1) He’s categorizing behavior, in contrast to those enforcing or causing homelessness, of people quite non violent as being a danger, when it’s more those causing the homelessness. I also don’t see it “crazy” would someone think that there is adequate room for shelter and it should be available actually displaying that it isn’t and should be. Space being available; and it wouldn’t cause much of a compromise in reality. And yet the ideology of “I own this because I have suffered,” or “I own this because I have played the game and associate happiness with such hip hop sterility,” that is excuse to despise people who in reality will end up having more of an experience of life that no one can take away from them. Some things you can’t buy.
2) I don’t know anything regarding his political stance, whether he’s from one party or the other, or which side of either he’s on (unfortunately the majority is two parties which mostly lean against each other, using the push against them from the other side to create an arch that ends up being a monopoly edging out any other party, both can be seen as adding up to a business” or “corporate” party); but this token stance of a minority making way to get points from a system rewarding him for leaving the very minority status used as a predatory badge to be exploited by those looking for another badge to ignore the rest, this is quite revolting.
3) He evokes descriptions of people standing at the street corner, ranting and raving (you’ve all seen them he says), air boxing, etc. and then makes out he has any idea of what’s going on with them. It’s not the psychiatric industry doping them up so badly they have such ticks, it’s not that their story was never heard (which he displays denial of) and it’s not that they are frustrated because the system is unfair. And again their story isn’t heard. Perhaps their story is heard, by something greater than this ability to lock people up in “asylums,” and call it an asylum, which it isn’t. Look up the definition.
There were times in my life when I could have ended up, or saw the tendency to end up spouting out at a street corner, or just plain shouting, ranting and raving. But I had music in my life. I knew I had to do something that would ease the tension building up, or I would explode. A simple computer with an electronic keyboard that would put notes into a program: and I had something to do with my fingers, my brain, my ears, my eyes reading the notes to hear them in another dimension… a reason to breath, a place for emotions that just were there without being told to behave, and could imbue life into the vibrations traveling through the air called sound. It was water to a parched plant. Dreams for Joseph whose brothers despised him calling him “The Dreamer” or in our terminology “crazy” because he believed such had value. Anyone could end up walking around homeless, not knowing who they are….. Something or someone other people don’t value: A homeless person… someone or something in need of a home, an asylum, a place to be there. What is an asylum? What’s going on in the “asylums,” homeless people are forced into? Are they being helped? Could it be that the soul needs music or art, or simply the legroom for its emotions to be there, EVEN when you don’t know what you’re doing yet……EVEN when what you do isn’t awarded a place in “society….!?” Could it be that people have experiences they just need to talk about, to be listened to, to work out, to not feel it intrudes on “society” or even their own sanity when they have experienced stuff that falls outside of “normal” “societal” interactions? Is it healing when you are telling a person there’s something wrong with their brain, when in reality the treatment causes that very phenomenon? When that creates which by now would be more of a pandemic than a lessening, does this mean you need more “authority” to enforce what doesn’t work? Is this the truth when you had good intentions but were so sure of it you were scared to see the actual results, which might force you to change your approach? Is it OK to lie for money and a lifestyle, or just money? Or “economic” territory? Or “power?”
An added note: “But this trend can also be seen in a number of recent laws sharply restricting or outlawing the rights of transgender youth to pursue and receive gender-affirming care. ” What is gender affirming care? Whatever gender or genitalia anyone is born with shouldn’t ever be reason that they aren’t allowed, aren’t welcome, or can’t be happy with whatever behavior the other, or any other gender exhibits. And to make the ability to express such diversity dependent on what kind of genitalia or biological make up you have, and thus promote the idea that happiness or the ability to express such diversity would come from changing your biological makeup, which in doing so actually limits diversity to something only accomplished with said change, I can’t say that that’s necessarily gender affirming care. It’s QUITE possible that a person would be more happy were they strengthened with the idea that they can behave however they feel makes them happy, and that both sides affirming what a man is, and what a woman is might be restricting such freedom of behavior, and it might be that neither side defining what is a man and what is a woman resonate with such freedom. You can’t be thus unless you have that, or if I have that, you can’t be thus is not necessarily helpful on either side…. Also “gender,” “male,” and “female,” are all words…. just in case you want to go beyond the redundant: “in the beginning was the word….” Further more, as yet the
“medical” establishment can’t successfully “perform” a sex change operation to create a “female” that can give birth, or a “male” that can give her “his” side of the material necessary. To read about a woman wanting to be a male, having her breasts removed, and then later deciding she wants a child, at what point was this not brought up that wanting a child later other than “medical” attention was granted in the interim, and having her breasts removed would prevent her from nursing the child. And the whole other list of problems when a person has lost fertility, has acquired other damage, can’t reverse the process when or would they change their mind, or children born with sexual organs not denoting either sex who then have their parents told they should surgically be changed to one or the other, and this being done before they can decide for themselves have to deal with having more orientation for the other: surgeries performed because otherwise they can’t have a “normal” childhood. WHY does it HAVE TO BE “one or the other?” Why is THAT seen as gender affirming care?
It might just be that once again, someone deciding that they need “medical” attention gets points consequently, while others wanting something else don’t; while the drug companies and the medical establishment get the profits, just like this scourge of the homeless who for some reason don’t all go marching to the mental health system to get fixed up. And now are FURTHER harassed that there’s something wrong with them. I’m not saying that anyone that has become dependent on “standard” gender affirmative care should just be thrown out in the gutter, or even that they aren’t a minority, or that they don’t deserve to be acknowledged and have help and care. But there might be a greater minority already in the gutter because they didn’t vie for fitting into one of the slots approved of that comes with “medical” attention. And they again are pushed to the side.
I’m sorry, but reading the intro to this post: “Most available narratives are sad stories centred (SIC) around the aspect of a disease, or terrifying tales about psychiatric treatment. But what if there is also something in between?”
To begin with, most available narratives regarding psychiatric treatment DO NOT contain the horrifying tales about psychiatric treatment at all. They are mostly bad fairy tales about an evil chemical imbalance that prince charming in the guise of what have you… (Seroquel, Prozak, Ritalin, Ambien etc.) are going to save you from, while the scientific truth is that they all cause or create exactly that, this “evil”: a chemical imbalance. And then there’s the whole setup of being made paranoid regarding “symptoms” which instead of being explained as normal responses to an environment and understood as any response or emotion is there to be, they are basically discriminated against, instead. Reactions that in reality is there to be understood are separated from their cause suppressed, and the disease model, again created by indoctrination sets in. Emotions are there to be felt, that’s why nature creates them, and psychiatric symptoms are not responses of a brain that’s not working, they are responses of a brain that IS working, science also shows this, because when you DON’T damage the brain with psychiatric drugs there’s more recovery. Other than street drugs (many of which used to be psychiatric drugs a bit more than half a century ago) or bad nutrition and other substances, the only substantive area they are a response from a brain not working, is from the very psychiatric drugs that are said to cure the disease. The side effects, the added on diagnosis as response to side effects. The “cocktail.”
Even regarding spiritual experiences. It’s real easy to glorify an experience into a whole other world, akin to a resort, but to actually work with those energies, to actually detach from the world, to actually decide you don’t need the whole plethora of “gains” the game theory of society and it’s deceptive rewards give you, this is something different from having a number of degrees, a well paying job and the ability to go shopping at will as distraction. The happiness there is beyond that, not from it.
Ekaterina, when there’s the amount of suppressed evidence involving the conclusive science regarding psychiatric drugs, and instead of it being acknowledged how they can get in the way of recovery it’s made out they are necessary for it. This is really comparable to Russia not even allowing a person to express the benefit and happiness they found themselves when they acknowledged their homosexual desires and/ or acted upon them, because would they do so it’s considered pro homosexual lifestyle propaganda and against the law.
Expressing truths isn’t cutting a debate in half. So, it isn’t: “the discussion mostly focusing on whether to take psychiatric drugs or categorically refuse them. There should be something in between.” There could only be something in between if people were allowed to express openly, in a medical capacity, at asylums, in therapy, to their psychiatrist, to their medical doctor, to their family and to the police how they feel the “medications” aren’t working for them. THAT isn’t going on, and THAT is what cuts the debate in half.
I’ll start at the ending: I feel terribly sorry for anyone having to deal with a society that prefers a disabled mind not being able to express trauma, dissent, or spiritual themes that aren’t understood or suppressed: and thus the disabling with psychiatric drugs is seen as healing. And there are many people who see what’s going on in a way that retains the thoughts going on that are labeled as being an illness, instead giving them room to be understood, and then a person has their own space to understand them; but that space should be allowed. It certainly should be allowed when there are people who can help give space, and are part of approaches that statistically correlate with helping the person.
Ekaterina, do you understand that this site doesn’t say one shouldn’t take the drugs, it promotes informed consent, and that means information should be given, from the beginning. And what you share here actually supports the data that psychiatric drugs only suppress symptoms for an interim period, and then things get worse. Your four commitments to an asylum in 2020, then. Also how your psychiatrist didn’t even see how he was over medicating you, and you state that because of the over medicating and how it made you feel, if you didn’t have a son you might have committed suicide, consequently.
You state: “However, I am not anti-psychiatry as such, and I disagree with the current tendency to divide the debate into half: one half is pro-psychiatry, while another is anti-psychiatry, with the discussion mostly focusing on whether to take psychiatric drugs or categorically refuse them. There should be something in between.”
This site really only promotes the scientific data that’s suppressed. That isn’t saying to categorically refuse someone taking psychiatric drugs, it simply points out the science and the statistics. And then promotes alternatives. It does become a problem when someone, being articulate or adept in detailing the true scientific data regarding psychiatric drugs, that then they become accused of dividing the debate in half. The only thing dividing the debate at that point is that one isn’t allowed to actually be articulate, or knowledgeable, or one is made out to be one sided, and from that the necessary information for informed consent, or informed involvement is suppressed. Statistics also points out that psychiatric drugs are more in correlation with a spike in mental illnesses. One can’t say that either, or be articulate about the information without being accused of dividing the debate in half? Many people would say the same about smoking, or sugar, alcohol, street drugs, fast food or Pizza, when information is shared. I’m not even saying AT ALL that there might be mitigating factions that make it more healthy to smoke for awhile, or the rest, just to get the mind off of what’s said one shouldn’t do. Things people do when one is overloaded, but to start promoting those things as a form of healing because they treat a chemical imbalance that would otherwise be chronic becomes dishonest. And then meditating, or mindfulness, or taking a walk in nature, or just consciously deciding not to try to follow said rules, and quietly letting go, that really might help more.
I think it’s more psychiatry that categorically refuses to see that how they implement their drugs, and how they suppress information is causing an epidemic. Yes, there are people that will say just stop taking the drugs, and won’t even acknowledge the difficulty of withdrawal, or that there’s lack of support to do that in a healthy way. But to suppress information, get people addicted, make them think they need medications that don’t help them, and then they are special and taken care of, while denying the statistics of said approach, that shouldn’t have been going on in the first place.
I feel terribly sorry for anyone having to deal with a society that prefers a disabled mind not being able to express trauma, dissent, or spiritual themes that aren’t understood or suppressed: and thus the disabling with psychiatric drugs is seen as healing. And there are many people who see what’s going on in a way that retains the thoughts going on that are labeled as being an illness, instead giving them room to be understood, and then a person has their own space to understand them; but that space should be allowed. It certainly should be allowed when there are people who can help give space, and are part of approaches that statistically correlate with helping the person. That would be what an asylum is…..
To tell you the truth, “some” of the voices I hear, which I already know are thoughts I don’t want to engage with, are SO inline with game theory phobias “society” is trying to get me trapped by, that I simply ignore them. Or I simply know that there’s no value in entertaining them at all, the only reason I might hear or think them is to see I can ignore such false logic. I think there are a LOT of people where such voices which they don’t care to be aware of become conditioned reflexes, and they would be better off being aware of them to get them out of their system. But that’s how it goes with brainwashed people who think others are crazy. Other voices though are helpful. But those are softer in quality rather than they feel like something snapping at you as if they have been attached with elastics that want to snap back at you when you move too much away from them; but if you let go of the conditioned reflex by becoming aware of it, then the elastic dissolves….
Thomas I really feel for you. No one should have to do said task in order to get approval from anyone. People are born themselves, not an entity that needs to find approval. As if God doesn’t exist, or Nature. Or that the Universe isn’t diverse enough that you would find yourself what interests you, what makes you tick, what motivates you, all without having to find approval from others. A tree isn’t looking for approval, it grows towards the sun without fear. It’s human that have these fears that get in the way of their growth.
“I couldnāt figure out how others knew what to do, what was spoken or read. I was a lazy G D. S.O.B. is all. I was told that so often I believed it and the only way to prove I wasnāt āno goodā was to improve at my schoolwork. Since I couldnāt do that, I hated myself as much as I could, hoping that if I detested myself sufficiently (by believing what I was told) I would find the motivation to improve. But, I couldnāt even hate myself as much as I should have, or I would have changed. So, I just kept trying to hate myself as much as I deserved.”
Sorry but what kind of dehumanizing logic tells you that you couldn’t hate yourself enough to improve? I’m really glad that you can talk here about how you felt, because you shouldn’t at all have this idea that YOU need to hate said part of yourself enough, because why? You just didn’t see how wrong it was, and hating would fix that? Hating doesn’t fix it, and those other people or that part of yourself that would be appeased if you hated yourself enough, that’s simply wrong…..
You also say: “Novelty helps and being fascinated by a topic can help briefly.” Why briefly? I hope you find people, or the space where a topic you find fascinating, just for yourself, that you can indulge in that more.
I mean there’s nothing going on when you don’t know why you can’t concentrate. I know in this society, when one can’t concentrate on said things there’s something wrong with you, but that’s a comment on the society, not the person. If you can’t concentrate, then you can’t concentrate. Like the food you eat isn’t going to grow otherwise, from the mother earth. You might actually find that things also work in a way that you at first don’t know why, because you don’t need a reason for it to work, it just was something else you could concentrate on, or a way you could concentrate on it, and that’s OK that it does…..
If everyone is deciding whether you’re a LAZY S. O. A. B. when you don’t do what they decide is your task, how are you ever going to find out what would just sink in by itself, by yourself, that ISN’T something someone else has decided you NEED TO be able to understand, or understand their way? And when you don’t, when you don’t understand it their way, or you simply can’t make sense out of it, or it doesn’t register, then you don’t hate yourself enough!? That’s just wrong!
The ADHD medications probably facilitate you being able to do this stuff that isn’t really so much from your own nature, but stuff that hurts you too much when you can’t. I would encourage you to find other ways that your mind works.
Looking for rewards isn’t really how harmony works. John Nash actually exposed that with game theory, and then a psychiatrist found that when his patients did better, and went home to relapse, when he tested what “home life” was like, that everyone was playing game theory with each other. They weren’t honest, they were all wagering loss the way they communicated even to the people they live with. Their spouses even. It wasn’t what they really thought or felt, it was what they thought they needed to say or do to get what they wanted from the other person. You just, in your post, were extremely honest beyond such boundaries with what you said. You’re not supposed to say how they made you feel worthless, you’re supposed to get their approval….. And I’m getting tired, it’s like I have to have ADHD medications myself, because I can’t remember so and so’s name, and next are all of the weird terms they give stuff that have to sound scientific. I’m also A Lazy Son of a Bitch that doesn’t hate myself enough…… What is his name!? What do you call that!!?
WELL! The book of that man used to be piled next to my bed, which is mattresses on the floor without anything underneath, so I had made a bookshelf out of it. Then I got some bookshelves from my parents, my mother passed away beautifully blossoming into spirit 2021, 94 years old, and my father moved to be with my sister, selling their condominium. I remembered I had put those books from beside the bed down in the basement on the shelves. And there it was. I first looked up “The Anatomy of Experience” because I thought that was the name of the book, but it’s the (no still can’t remember): it’s the “Politics of Experience:” although I just saw it downstairs I had to look it up online. Because I remembered the author’s name R. D. Laing. That’s just one of his books, but he is the one who when his patients would do better, after he helped them, and after they got out of the asylum and returned home, found they relapsed. Consequently wanting to see what was going on he handed out questionnaires (that’s another thing, this SOAB doesn’t know there’s two n’s in questionnaires and the spell check had to tell him). Laing handed out questio[n!n!]aires to people in normal home settings (in contrast to asylums, where people might actually be a little more honest, because they don’t have to be sane, for all I know) and he found out how much they were playing game theory…..
I don’t think people are lacking in the ability to concentrate when they are prey to such games…..
I understand that ADHD medications are quite a black market commodity for stock brokers or people that have to keep the account for hospitals or decide who gets billed. Either extremely predatory mean spirited stuff, or stuff they hate and just want to get through for the money, and is that devoid of meaning. What does that say about what the “medications” really do? And what kind of ability to “concentrate” is forced on children in school that they would need such drugs to help? I don’t know since when attaching the ability to brainwash people onto deciding whether they have the ability to concentrate or not articulates learning abilities, or whether when someone can play pin the tail on whoever is supposed to pay what also keeps them an underling also means productivity… I read somewhere that someone (was it a mailman?) was able to determine how many of the psychiatrists in a very up to do neighborhood were taking ADHD meds, could be because they delivered their prescriptions, I don’t remember exactly, but….. it was a majority.
Do you understand that: “a brief stint in the hospital to get symptoms under control” in the end doesn’t get symptoms under control, it suppresses them, normal expression in order to unburden oneself of underlying causes isn’t allowed, and you end up with things getting worse. Also, in the 1960s the introduction of new psychiatric medications isn’t why there was such an exodus from the state hospitals, it was because they found out that there were many people in there that had nothing going on. One used to be able for 500 dollars have a person committed for life. They found that many or most of the people had nothing going on with them, they just weren’t integrated with society, and when looked at there was nothing going on with them other than they hadn’t dealt with taking care of themselves for years. The new psychiatric medications didn’t fix people up then, doesn’t statistically fix people up now but if you find that there are a population of people that should never have been committed, and you have these new medications, the drug companies could act like they found this magical solution.
I think the problem with homelessness is homelessness, not mental illness. For this mayor to play the public image game and continue to stereotype people he as a policeman never got to know, this only makes it worse for all homeless people. I think that the increase in the homeless is because of the pandemic, and now the proxy war of the West against Russia in Ukraine and the economic turns, to start using that as an excuse to give more power to the mental health system to pick up vulnerable people that their methods correlate with more of the problem, this is nothing but smoke and mirrors, and pretense. Neither has the mental health system helped those struggling with the horrors of homeless, or the pandemic or those stuck in war zones of suffering because of the consequent emotional turmoil from the economic down turns. It’s like the fundamentals being against abortion while making it impossible for many people to take care of children financially, while they promote wars in other countries. It’s those people that would overlook that the war in Iraq with all of its use of depleted uranium in missiles caused more birth defects in Fallujah than occurred from the atomic bombs dropped on Japan in WW2. And then they start fussing about abortion to make themselves look moral.
He describes behaviors of people he’s decided are mentally ill, clearly is so brainwashed he wouldn’t know how much those behaviors are from iatrogenic damage, how much those people’s lives would have been improved if the programs that the mental health system doesn’t allow and are more cost effective would have been implimented, and which do correlate with recovery rather than with the spike in mental illness, and then he talks about living in dignity is something you can force on people with the mental health system……
Giving the power to an industry which recently has had to pay more than 6 billion dollars for the false advertising of bipolar meds, whose treatment scientifically causes the very thing it is said to allegedly treat which is a chemical imbalance, that correlates with a spike in the occurrence of what it is said to heal (a mental illness), and that if the scientific and statistical data were taken seriously and acknowledged for what they really are, forced institutionalization would be seen as causing illegal damage to a person’s brain and against the law….. this isn’t going to solve anything but cause more of the problem and then as has always been the case cause more demand for the solution that a cause rather than a solution.
Added to that, how many people do you have to have committed in order for it to add up to enough money that went the wrong way making things worse when it could have been invested in housing that they don’t have and aren’t going to get after “treatment?” How many of the people he says need to be picked up already have had “treatment” that didn’t work for them and that if it were put into housing and treatment that is non drug-company promoted but correlates with recovery would have left them more functional and with housing, and the city of New York with an idea of mental illness that creates understanding and the knowledge how to respond to such people that helps them rather than paranoia and more of the problem!?
2018 there were 5,419 beds in psychiatric hospitals. There are more than 60,000 homeless people sleeping in New York’s municipal shelter system each night in September, and those are just the ones that are counted in legit shelter, not those sleeping anywhere else. It’s downright silly to put more money into what doesn’t help those people, further more, he describes behaviors such as people talking to themselves, or air boxing, and other completely non violent behaviors, and then condones them being forced on treatments that would what truly happens with such treatments be acknowledged would be against the law, and the UN has decided they SHOULD be. What about the people promoting this epidemic, the psychiatrists forcing people on treatments that shorten their life, disable them, take away their civil liberties to vie for something that correlates more with recovery, the drug companies, the wall street tycoons that bankrupt whole countries and start wars playing money games, he doesn’t mention their behavior at all but promotes stigma against non violent people that really in ways only disturb others who don’t want to see society can do that to people. “Come on lets do something positive and pick them up and force more of the treatment on them that correlates with their numbers increasing rather than recovery….” Added to this he was a police man for more than 20 years: how oblivious does one have to be to see that arresting people and forcing them into a system that statistically makes things worse isn’t going to be any different when you are advocating for it from the outside.
I’m totally speechless when I read stuff like this. Would the world care to see what goes on in such people’s lives, what kind of humanity is lost defining what has happened in their lives as a mental illness, akin to saying if you have been bullied, physically assaulted or worked so hard you have wounds and bruises that there’s something wrong with your body, only in psychiatry they can’t and haven’t found the physical component other than what their treatments do: would the world care about such stuff there might be a different philosophy regarding how people understand each other and what’s considered functional, and that might actually promote enough human understanding of trauma in a form that is quite non violent compared with how it rears its head in those starting wars, causing famine, degrading the mother earth, promoting ingrained misunderstanding between different cultures and the rest. And would the world care to understand those that they simply find disruptive or disturbing but basically are non violent, it might stop the worse stuff. I don’t see that promoting asylums, wars, jails and the rest has been working…..
You’re right Richard, it’s “wonderful,”
Same as the drug companies have uncovered whole fields, terraces and valleys of otherwise undiscovered mental illnesses, thanks to their epidemic, also conjuring treatments for that and the other biological problems occurring; Bezos and Tesla (his name escapes me… oh yeah Musk, like that perfume) have uncovered whole swathes of dysfunctional behavior known as homelessness and other factions of such thanks to their economic trends. Soon the whole planet will become an asylum, the ones with enough $$$$$$ will take off to other planets https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/jeff-bezos-foresees-trillion-people-living-millions-space-colonies-here-ncna1006036 to echo the White flight of the 60s and 70s. JUST half a century later….. Whoever has enough $$$$$$ takes off to…..
I took a walk through a patch of forest near by, noticed tents and improvised encampment attempts, and then all of the trash. Picked up two recyclables, and went to a nearby store where I mentioned needing two trucks to pick up all of the trash, and calling the local jail: “Could you have the convicts come over and pick up all of the trash in the forest? I know….. some of them will escape but the real criminals are in the military and the police killing people…..” didn’t even mention the court system or the jails, actually, or even asylums. Did mention how homeless people were dotted along a nearby hill up towards where the railroad runs, and how I recently ran into an Angel Amongst us (13.2), who I first thought was homeless. It was kind of funny, they couldn’t wake him up, not knowing that it’s like trying to move a mountain, which exists because of other rules than man with his desire to “change” things or control them. And how I couldn’t tell “whoever” was making an attempt at waking him up what that was, which I didn’t realize at the time, I simply had asked whether they couldn’t just leave him alone, as he was hurting no one, etc….. I couldn’t even show empathy towards the angel without receiving discriminatory evaluation that was quite off, let alone….
Life is crazy, if you think it’s sane you truly aren’t paying attention….
I have taken what Thomas has shared, and tried to fill in explanations would anyone want to gain perspective that might be missing is one so inclined to continue reading. It may help them. I want to thank Thomas for sharing, and must also point out that any sarcasm used in these attempts at possible explanation are there to possibly allow for perspective that might occur, and are not a personal attack on anyone, nor are they to ridicule, they are an attempt at promoting perspective on issues and ideology that might otherwise be missing.
The result of taking different statements and trying to explain the underlying generators of thought from here:
“According to the new study, that gene may just be CDH2, should that gene mutate.
CDH2 is a gene that encodes N-cadherin, which is responsible for helping in brain synapse activity and formation. A mutation in CDH2, however, alters this activity. This, in turn, impacts molecular pathways and dopamine levels in two specific brain structures: the ventral midbrain and the prefrontal cortex, both of which are involved in ADHD.
Further studies have been initiated by the Birk team at BGUās National Institute for Biotechnology in the Negev (NIBN).
ADHD is complex and researchers are beginning to zero in on the areas of the brain most responsible for the condition. There is a consensus that the symptoms are real and they can and do cause great injury.”
I will now proceed to take separate statements and proceed with possible modes of perspective.
“According to the new study, that gene may just be CDH2, should that gene mutate.”
This is:
“According to the new study” How many prior studies failed need not be mentioned because we continue with the expression: “that gene may just be” the word “may” denoting potential, no matter how much we have failed in this genre of pursuit (it denotes how we have opened up our potential of insistent pursuit quite a bit, although we stick to what’s considered during these times scientific, for example one should not suggest that it might be whether one says a number of Saint Mary’s, does the rosary, recites incantations, repeats mantras or such even if such non-mainstream approaches could illicit more recovery; sacrificing goats or virgins remains completely not condoned when out of mainstream doctrines) but we adhere to mainstream biological ideology so we mention: “CDH2, should that gene mutate” and when that gene research doesn’t pan out, since up to this time we have tried numerous connections which sadly only remain connections we find compelling in our pursuit, it is likely and to be heralded that we will list that we have discovered our first possible link once more regarding another connection, should this well meant endeavor fail, because fortunately there is quite a prolific array of dna connections….
“CDH2 is a gene that encodes N-cadherin, which is responsible for helping in brain synapse activity and formation. A mutation in CDH2, however, alters this activity. This, in turn, impacts molecular pathways and dopamine levels in two specific brain structures: the ventral midbrain and the prefrontal cortex, both of which are involved in ADHD.”
That is:
“CDH2 is a gene that encodes N-cadherin, which is responsible for helping in brain synapse activity and formation. A mutation in CDH2, however, alters this activity.” Although any mutation in any gene can effect the expression of said gene, and mutations can occur anywhere within the strands of DNA, one must list this when one in endeavoring to make headway is suspecting an activity that hasn’t been proven, this again denotes and illicits the necessary belief and comfort that science is involved, one must again not mention above listed non-mainstream beliefs, as we continue with “This, in turn, impacts molecular pathways and dopamine levels in two specific brain structures: the ventral midbrain and the prefrontal cortex, both of which are involved in ADHD.” This hasn’t been proven, how could it be when it is only suspected, but it promotes necessary belief in science and that we endeavor to follow it in making headway.
“ADHD is complex and researchers are beginning to zero in on the areas of the brain most responsible for the condition. There is a consensus that the symptoms are real and they can and do cause great injury.”
That is:
“ADHD is complex and researchers are beginning to zero in on the areas of the brain most responsible for the condition.” Note the use of the expression “beginning to zero in,” and then how we make references to the brain in order to maintain scientific iedology, this in contrast to years past when the sanctity of reformed thinking thus deemed as sanity was determined regarding whether someone repeated said doctrines of the church (whether this made any sense to them or not, certainly would they question it rather than repeat it was questionable), we are talking about sanity not the outdated doctrine of whether one is demon possessed or not, this is the age of science and objective materialism, one must use appropriate terminology when making such statements as: “There is a consensus that the symptoms are real and they can and do cause great injury.” which is stated to emphasize that there is a problem, which we have detailed in that it “may be” because of something that goes along with a scientific approach.
This all in order, we should get funding: governmental and good will where it is considered a tax write-off. So we have already stated:
“Further studies have been initiated by the Birk team at BGUās National Institute for Biotechnology in the Negev (NIBN).” This in contrast to the whole school of disturbed ones who can’t take the trouble to filter their expression into appropriate scientific modelling (this may take some education), and sadly complain when our so conscientious methods are not to their liking, as they disregard are certainty that although things may seem to fall apart and seem difficult, although we have been accused of causing an epidemic ( was the great depression an epidemic, or did people not know how to handle their money and blame it on the banks? ); and although they have given up on us, we deserve this funding to continue, for we herald science.
“job job” if you are truly interested in healing, what difference does it make as to what solves the problem or what the problem is listed as? Are you interested in a solution? In recovery?
boans how are you doing? I’m sorry I read how you expressed feeling rather put out that your issues regarding how falsely you were labeled and put in the mental health system weren’t more acknowledged. So many of us have had this. I haven’t experienced anyone being committed without there being a plethora of lies (also even when someone puts themselves in voluntarily, they know how to exaggerate), and then there’s cases like yours where someone is spiked (or who is the guy that was on Charlie Rose and also actually advised families to turn over the furniture when they wanted a family member committed, to make it look like they were violent), added to that how often when the initial interim of “symptoms” being suppressed by psychiatric drugs and further problems occurring because of the drugs that then instead of acknowledging the problem because of the drugs it’s denied, whether this is spiking or not; or how much FDA approved stuff is spiking, actually, when said commodity makes too much money for the effects to be reported. And people are absolutely crazy when they think someone is “crazy,” how paranoid and often devious they respond. As if there’s such a danger they don’t even have to follow legal protocol, make up stuff, lie, and then beyond that if it was held to the letter asylums wouldn’t be legal, given the true science of the damage psychiatric drugs do to the brain, let alone statistically the result to society….
I think that with the older Quaker asylums that Whitaker talks about in his books, where there was recovery before the bio-chemical model usurped the idea of asylums, those places helped, as do Healing Homes of Finland, Soteria House and others. Of course there are people that were helped by psychiatry and being committed to a “modern” asylum, but how much is that avoiding what the symptoms are expressing, and finding ways of finding stability by being assimilated? There’s a difference between dressing oneself up to be normal and sanity. The sad part is that people lose their spirit the way they have to dress themselves up just to not get points against them from the system.
I’ve never been committed this incarnation, although “Nijinsky” who “died 1950 was, but my heart goes out to anyone who has. I think any of you who have been through that are amazing that you still survive. Please just do that! Survive, Enjoy life as much as you can, without anyone making your feel differently about it.
Some of the responses here by people advocating for all of that, I simply freeze up, the level of fundamentalist fantasy going on. Indoctrinated publicity catch phrases used to dismiss scientific and statistical data. Science becomes scientism, and morality become moralism. When someone is such a soldier to help others that in supposedly doing so they need to ignore what the true effects are……
One has to deal with machinery of thought in a system telling you how to think, machinery that’s not working in order to not be abused more, but you can’t point out what’s wrong with the machinery!?
Who is the doctor and who is the healer? The patient or…..
“job job” When you give someone a drug that causes the behavior that you label as a disease and someone points out that what YOU label as a disease comes from the drug then because they point out cause and effect they denied that the disease exists? Are you interested in recovery or just have the right to labeling people as being diseased? However things are “labeled.”
“job job,” you didn’t know that drugs could and have caused the very condition labeled as OCD? Do you care to be honest enough about caring that what you label as a disease goes away when those medications are stopped? You labeled it a disease, you say drugs heal it, but when it’s clear drugs cause it and its pointed out clearly with scientific evidence regarding how said drugs effect the brain, then what!? Do you care about healing or just that you have the right and the ability to call it a disease, and when someone points out a solution that doesn’t support your method, suddenly there’s something wrong because you can say they’re not calling it a disease.
And psychiatric drugs correlate with an extreme spike in the occurrence of the diseases, does this mean that anyone pointing this out is saying that those aren’t diseases when alternative method don’t correlate with the spike?
Steve clearly pointed out the correlation between behaviors and observation. You instead label something as a disease in order to create such concern and/or alarm that you can tack on treatments and ignore statistically the results.
You stated this, earlier from here https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/11/growing-good-mental-health-choice-theory/#comment-203002: “Millions find relief from terrible suffering due to the care of these doctors and the drugs developed by the pharmaceutical industry. As Nathan says, thereās risk in everything. Discuss those tormented souls who perished under the best efforts of therapists who refused drug treatment. Why not mention them, Robert? ”
Statistically the drug companies method correlates with a spike in the disease, if it’s proven that drugs can cause OCD are YOU going to acknowledge the source!?
And then this statement: “Discuss those tormented souls who perished under the best efforts of therapists who refused drug treatment. Why not mention them, Robert?” When drug treatments work for some people, but statistically have caused more of the problem you think you can decide that souls who perished receiving no drug treatment would have fared better. Then you mention therapists who supposedly refused drug treatment. What’s true is that anyone has the choice to take drug treatment or not. But that’s not the case for people who do not want a drug treatment, if you are going to talk about what’s refused and what isn’t. That could be the case that drugs could help someone, but there’s no correlation or proof there that the reason they suffered or perished is because they weren’t given drug treatments, in fact statistically it’s the opposite. There’s also the spike in mass shootings while anti-depressants have been forced to have the warning label stating they can cause such behavior. But that only occurred after it was going on for years, the drug companies suppressed that.
Is it OK that anyone points out cause and effect there, or are they then not calling it a disease, because anywhere it occurred without drugs means drugs are the answer, although the drugs actually correlate statistically with more of the problem!?
And the drug companies with all of their clout, money advertising abilities, there’s question regarding the finances of this site because it has a fraction of 1% of such finances? So that’s also suspect, apparently. From you: “Why not mention the profits you make from your books? Your speaking engagements, from this your subsidized advertising resource, funded by many who canāt afford it. Oh no! Not you. No trace of of anything impure about you.”
Whitaker responded really clearly to that https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/11/growing-good-mental-health-choice-theory/#comment-203121 so how much are you earning a year “job job?”
When bankers bankrupt a country, or an Industry creates more of the problem it says it’s eradicating with its treatment; and yet an innocent old lady with a house full of stuff but hurting no one, and also has accumulated cats, she then has OCD!?
Where is the problem, and again, if you are going to look for a solution, you might try to avoid the treatment correlating in the spike, either that or you might understand the lady with the cats better (possibly)…… if you ever get so far as to be “OCD,” in the sense that you understand the lady, who really in comparison is hurting no one…..
And then we have the bankers to understand, if you could give us any insight, that would be helpful. Truly…. No joke……Any insight at all might be helpful…..
It also doesn’t say anything, if there’s consistent correlation. Which there isn’t here. If you hurt yourself and have a scar, and this is consistent, that doesn’t mean that the scar is a chemical imbalance, not even when the scar hurts. To alleviate the pain (that way you can repeat what caused the scar, possible, and blame it on the scar), this does what?
Your abuser isn’t hurting you
Thou shalt not be sad
Tom Shapiro: When you had your problems with your ankle, and the doctor didn’t fix it, did he tell you that the reason your ankle didn’t get better was because you were non compliant to treatment, even when you noticed it wasn’t getting better? Because that IS the case with MANY people who have had to deal with a psychiatrist and their chemical imbalance theories. Further more, in psychiatry if you don’t want any more treatment, and you have told them that it’s getting worse, they can force you on more, and say that the reason the problem is getting worse is that you need more treatment. Did this happen with your ankle? Were you forced on more of the treatment that you say botched your ankle so badly you couldn’t play pro football, and not allowed any other choice? I’m just mentioning choice also, not whether you chose to continue with whatever treatment. Were you arrested from your home and imprisoned in a hospital when you showed signs that the treatment didn’t work, after having gotten away from it? Was this continued even when it disabled your life, even when you weren’t able to function at work, even when multiple other medical issues started cropping up that scientific data shows is from the treatment? And when you tried to point out with clear evidence that statistically the treatment you were forced on correlates with an extreme spike in the problem, were you told that you were a danger to yourself or others because you were non compliant with treatment? Because that is the case with many people who have been forced on psychiatric treatment (read Whitaker’s books, and others such as Moncrieff).
What YOU are saying is that people who actually feel they should have the right to say no, this isn’t working; or I’m interested in other treatments that correlate (read Whitaker’s works) with more recovery: you are saying that those people are speaking against doctors, and insult you because why?
You speak of people doing well because of psychiatry. I’m not aware that they aren’t allowed to tell their story in mainstream media. Do you think this site is mainstream media? Is there something wrong with a group of people who are doing well because they got away from psychiatry and its controls on their life who have the temerity to point out how when they stopped doing what psychiatry said was necessary they could function again? Is there something wrong with the fact that when they got away from controls psychiatry wanted on their life that they could function again? How is that insulting to you for them to tell their story? This is insulting to you because they survived, have a life, and want to speak freely how that happened?
If there’s clear statistical evidence that other methods work, or simply that the one that’s being forced on anyone isn’t, people advocating for the right to make their own choice are insulting you? And why is this? Because you lost your ability to play pro football because of a doctor but didn’t lose faith in the medical profession?
Whitaker doesn’t at all speak against people that say they have been helped by psychiatry. He doesn’t do what you are doing, and say that when they tell their story they are speaking against the clear evidence he puts forth regarding those that haven’t been helped by psychiatry, and who aren’t allowed to tell their story.
Just to be clear: in fact I wonder whether I should clearly state that I was not promoting the idea that giving people surgery to reduce their hearing would help with anxiety.
Before expenses paid, and without scientific or statistical data beyond market value publicity:
Pharmaceutical sales representative salary https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/pharmaceutical-sales-representative/salary/
Psychiatrist Salary in the United States https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/psychiatrist-salary
CEO Salaries for the Top 20 Pharma Companies by Market Cap https://www.biospace.com/article/ceo-salaries-for-the-top-pharma-companies-by-market-cap/
No kidding. I think that the same goes when a famous person says they like a certain drug, or make out it’s part of their “ambiance” or what makes them so wonderful etc…..
You could probably do the same study, and have different people recommend certain drugs (regardless of their efficacy) compared to just a “nobody,” and see the same difference, or how when a cheaply made commodity from a sweat shop can sell for next to nothing at any of the stores with dollar attached (family dollar, dollar tree, is there a dollar bazaar store?), but when Kim Kardashian or Suzanne Summers has their name on it then how much more can it be sold for because of the added celebrity varnish-image-aura?
Here is a “time warp” or portal I was talking about. It’s maybe just an example of how one can find resolve simply with art. Beyond time and measure. I was a bit distressed for several reasons this weekend, and beyond that Thursday something spiritual happened that again leaves me in a place that would I talk about it, which I feel impelled to do, I could be seen as “crazy,” of just people’s programming kicks in and I feel their resistance, but then Friday I had a therapy session, and to have something to talk about also, I played with part of this concerto, which I mentioned already. This is that portal: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mTa4hubM2dBBXBE1346NwnA9cyU8BsAv/view?usp=sharing Also that concerto was written when Mozart was 21, actually, not 17…..
Topher, I thought the same things before reading the article. And then this sentence: “After eligibility requirements were met, the participants were interviewed by a study clinician at one of the three hospitals on the East Coast of the United States.”
(!?) I’m not under the impression that clinicians from hospitals regarding how they evaluate anxiety is helping one way or the other, other than it seems to be more of a problem. How much are they causing paranoia regarding anxiety, and anyone wanting to dowse what otherwise might function to point out stuff that’s uncomfortable to the status quote, they get points for then “not” being anxious? What is going on when people want to dowse anxiety rather than feel it to see why it’s there, and how much is simply pushing it away the problem that causes the discomfort rather than the anxiety itself? What does this say regarding the results of these interviews? Is this the same as people deciding you’re going to Heaven if you park yourself in church every so often, or repeat said doctrines? The ones going to church show signs they will go to “Heaven” because they are less anxious about it? They get above a 4. It’s not listed how they determine what anxiety above 4 is. What does that have to do with deadened feelings or senses to what’s going on that might cause needed anxiety so one is aware of it? Or does mindfulness also cause in the end serotonin sluggishness like anti-depressants have been proven to? Or the fluctuating from too much to not enough within a period of initiation of the drug, and in the end less serotonin, which then again increases exponentially would the drug be stopped? If you test a bunch of people regarding their reaction when an alarm goes off, and there’s a group that really just HATE the alarm, would giving those people ear muffs have proven that they reduce anxiety, and you can just ignore WHY the alarm went off? And having hospital personal make these evaluations regarding the efficacy of the ears muffs it this legitimate science?
And as Steve mentioned one of the things regarded as reducing “anxiety” has a few more side effects than ear muffs?
And will that relieve the “anxiety” of the hospital personal to know these side effects are treatable (or rather effects, I don’t know whether an anti-anxiety drug causing “psychosis” or “bipolar” is really just a side effect or basically an effect) where as mindfulness, if it’s liked might lure people away from medical treatment and thus something leaning towards alternatives is seen as indifference rather than a lessening of anxiety…..
I might be over-interpreting and exaggerating a bit…..
Maybe I should try some mindfulness to relieve that…..
Kate L I’m sorry if I confused you, because I notice now that I said I was answering your question, but really was responding to Nancy. I had gotten your names confused. And sorry I hadn’t even read your posts in this thread, although I have in others and completely empathize with what you have to go through with this horrible diagnosis. It can be like the other diagnosis, mean spirited criticism or down right hate speech. Kate, I wish I could hug you, be there for you every day so you didn’t feel abandoned in expressing that you’re human, and this [email protected]#[email protected](*)T goes on regarding the mental health system. We are supposed to be diseased, but what I’ve noticed with all my friends in the mental health system, the ones I spent time with, who have been disenfranchised and disabled is that they don’t judge you for all your “weird” supposedly dysfunctional behavior, and the interactions instead are human. I think it maybe even becomes dangerous do I think I need friends who are “functional,” because really this society isn’t. We aren’t little androids walking around programmed by society giving us rewards when we follow the patterns of you are a good boy or girl and deserve to walk around in the machinery of image arrogance that you have been assimilated and there’s something wrong with those who haven’t. Is not being assimilated really a loss? Is it a loss to let go of wanting such “functional” friends or such a life? Here’s something, years ago, I composed and performed, I was on facebook at that time (am again, but have taken a break in between) and a group of us within the alternative movement regarding mental health practice were trying to help a girl with BPD, and I found this music playing through my mind, consequently, and this piece came of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxyjGyzfFGY
And seriously Nancy what Same was maybe trying to say. With emotions you touch into a whole other world, a world that one might even argue remains intangible to another part of the self wanting to define things, and wanting to have answers, and wanting to be in control.
I’m a musician-artist, have written a few novels, even indulged in studying nutrition to such a degree I could contradict your statement that we know how to take care of our teeth. You’ve also contradicted it yourself below, so we’re in the same ball park, and you were just using that as an example regarding where effort is put. Adding to what you stated, I don’t know why it isn’t basic care for one’s teeth to know about phytic acid, and how it affects the health of teeth, as well as that of your guts. What Weston A. Price discovered in his investigations of indigenous cultures.
Anyhow, past that digression, emotions are things that in art defy logic in a way, and what a society thinks gives form to it. And in music for example, what’s called Jazz theory has a resonance with the overtone series that allows just a bit more room for emotions than traditional Western theory. And it’s the “poor” black slaves who started such science, actually. It’s like the conservatories of the planet still have to catch up. I just yesterday, before my “therapy” session was playing around with a melody that comes out in a Mozart Cadenza to a concerto he wrote when he was 17. But in transposing it to play around with it I found I was giving it that resonance. Harmonizing it so it resonated with the overtone series just a bit more (Western harmony does this but not as exactly). I first just thought that would make a nice song, and have a beginning for that. But I was just laying in the bath retransposing it to where it is in the cadenza, that whole beginning and it fits perfectly in the cadenza, first the more scientific resonant, and then the same melody back into the custom of the time then. I’ve actually written cadenza’s for a couple of Mozart concertos and done that, but haven’t fit an extra place in the any of the ones in existence till now. It really just feels like a portal for angels amongst us, which I’ve encountered as told in Hebrews, also. It’s simply an incredible spiritual matrix, from another dimension, more germinal to how we create life, just by letting it happen. And art does that, all art forms, they open us up to how everything in life is beautiful, and it’s simply that feeling that became a melody, but it didn’t even have to be because something was consciously felt it simply gives room for that dimension where feelings do stuff our conscious mind would dismiss, for it perhaps remains intangible to it.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t do what you do. To ask the magical questions, that’s just part of it. But there’s another gear, maybe. It’s like what I’ve experienced regarding angels amongst us, they just are there from a whole other matrix of interactions. Thinking you have control of that is sort of like thinking you can move a mountain. Now, some people might argue with me, but I don’t think if man with all of his machinery started deciding where mountains should be (or the oceans or forests, or plateaus, or what color the sky should be or whether fish should have fins or not) I don’t think they’d get it right. I think the mountain is going to be there for another reason that our mind deciding why it should, and that expands potential, maybe.
That’s all, it’s just another gear. If I’m writing a piece of music I don’t usually have a connection with the emotions beforehand, it’s more giving room for the ability. It’s only once this happened that I can think of, or twice come to think now. There was a friend of Mozart, the one soft point in his last years (and this WASN’T his wife), a piano student. And I came upon someone who I thought was this friend, and I think it was when it dawned on me, and out of nowhere a friend of mine (a lady that was ALSO supposed to be “crazy” and this has happened with another “crazy” friend as well), she called me up because I wanted to ask her, which I had been thinking to do, whether she picked up that this was a soul connection, and she knew the color of his hair, and she had called with I think more than serendipity. Then I must have hung up the phone, and started hearing a melody in my mind and in working this melody out on the piano I sat there finding myself weeping so hard that my FACE hurt. Just WEEPING! And it was nothing perhaps but the music letting that out, nothing more, not even thinking about what it meant. It’s even like with trauma, to feel it and trust the Universe to heal it. Not judging others, not even trying to figure out what went wrong in the life of the person who could be listed as the abuser, but simply feeling it, and trusting the Universe. Perhaps what Lao-Tzu called non-attachment.
I wanted to say it’s like a time warp at first (but I was told I would loose you, who ever is trying to figure out what I’m going on about), like in the cadenza phrase I added from this time, to the concerto that when I talked with Mozart’s mother through a medium and mentioned it she said she remembered me playing it, and it was like a dream. Can spirits dream, what is the unconscious, can they manifest in our dimension say as why might in their while we dream?
That’s “Crazy” but maybe emotions and the sub or unconscious have that connection with the Universe, and can resonate with stuff we would think is impossible did we decided we knew what they feelings were for.
Kate, in response to your question. I have had to recently take a step with such feelings, also with anger, that certain situations, when they make me feel that way, that there’s no loss in simply staying away from them. This actually regarding a rather fundamentalist approach that I’m causing those feelings not the situation. But this way if I see the situation as causing the feelings, then I end up not seeing the situation as causing the feelings, because I stay away from it. A different brand of forgiveness than staying in the situation. Life itself when you take yourself out of danger, the enjoyment of it teaches forgiveness. That’s also how it’s designed I think and why we have such amazing things to enjoy. Even the slightest thing that we might overlook thinking we have to have some fight that has to be won or it’s necessary for us to label ourselves as victim and see ourselves as hurt. But then there’s the other side of that as well, if you acknowledge that then maybe you allow yourself to see that you can and want to get out of such a situation. the mind also disassociates for such reasons. And you have the whole array of stuff as in multiple personalities and other escapes that can be seen as diseases. But forgiving and getting out of a situation are the same and go along with seeing you’re responsible for how you feel. And you give room for the change that can take place on “both” sides. There’s also the other side of it, when I read your remarks towards jobjob and the situations you have encountered, what people have had to deal with that makes me want to cry. My cheeks get pushed down and start puffing out, my eyes water. Then I might have a different reaction, and try to stick up for such people. (this is just a quick response)
Job job: Your whole argument for the very careful meticulous research Robert Whittaker has done, research whose integrity has been widely honored and even if it hadn’t stands for the total honesty there, your whole argument against it is that it’s a reach. And I’m sorry as much as you’re trying to defend your profession along with your handle as job job, that’s not really a valid debate point. What is this meant to depict that something is a reach? In any society where there is an accepted belief which is challenged, that challenge is going to seem as a reach. that in no way means that the challenge is not valid. Beyond that you can’t dismiss nor have you excused the mounting numbers of disability and complications with people who have acquired a chemical imbalanced from the medications, an imbalance that has not been proven to exist because of a disease although the medications have been proven to cause exactly that; and this parallels the current spike since the implementation of the chemical imbalance theory. The chemical imbalance theory creates exactly what it is said to cure and that is a chemical imbalance because of the medications while the disease itself has not been proven to be caused by chemical imbalance? In fact what is called a chemical imbalance from a biological disease that’s either blamed on environment or genetics or behavior the one instance that there’s concrete proof of any of that coming from a chemical imbalance is from the medications. That is not a reach that is irrational that is based on concrete statistics regarding the currents of what’s labeled us as mental illness as well as concrete science regarding the affect of the medications on the brain. Is ignoring all of that helping psychiatry and if that is the case how does that characterize psychiatry itself which Robert Whittaker is not doing, psychiatry itself is doing that, Robert Whitaker simply lists accurate scientific and statistical data. You also actually in your statements contradict your basic premise because you even have to admit that Robert Whitaker says that for some people the medications can have short-term effect and for some long-term effect. This you state after implying that he doesn’t care about all the people that it has helped. In the meantime the numbers of people who according to his well-grounded research have been hurt is multiple times greater. And I’m sorry again but the way you respond to Robert Whittaker and and imply that you know what is going on with him what his intentions are what is he is hiding when you have stated that you are a professional psychiatrist and thus it is within your means to use diagnosis to actually maintain what is going on with another person someone that could be extremely vulnerable also to everything that the medications could do to them what’s the iotrogenic problems but then there’s the simple fact of the interpretations and presumptions you make. I see that Robert Whitaker has very clearly explained that he gets no money from the speaking engagements and also how that sits with his books. And I can’t really speak for this site but I would assume that the reason it is not allowed for people on this site to be attacked with personal attacks which is what you just displayed against Robert Whittaker, but I can see that for people who have already been damaged by psychiatric treatment, who haven’t been allowed to state how the treatment is affecting them without being accused of being non-compliant, who have had treatment forced on them who have had to deal with interpretations on them that weren’t valid didn’t work for them made everything worse took away their personal freedoms and disabled their life, then yes I can see that for them to suffer further personal attacks could be highly detrimental and it is better that such behavior is not allowed towards the people here on this site. However Steve himself has stated that differences of opinion are allowed and you’re allowed to attack ideas but not people.
I guess I’m trying to elucidate this point you made. And the point is completely valid, because that means a client is part of the process, not that they have been labeled a certain way, and the mental health worker is the one deciding how they should change. It’s the clients place to decide what’s going on with them: “When working with a client, I believe that professionals should share their definition, ask clients to define it for themselves. Then together you work as a team for the same target and goal.”
I have to state that in my experience, I knew I was having episodes in my life where I myself didn’t even understand the “psychosis.” The very desire to get that to stop in a way could get in the way of understanding. I never would have said that I saw it as a disease, and I needed to eradicate it, but still there was that extreme push to WANT it to stop, even to think that support from a therapist would get me to feel good about myself enough to get it to stop, but I had no idea really that I lacked insight into what I thought was interfering with my life, and that experience to gain insight only came from not judging it beyond what I already myself wasn’t doing. I wasn’t judging it already, but even analyzing it, even as trauma where it came from that didn’t give me insight into the the stuff of it that was involved with life itself completely, and that involved impossible things like a miracle healing, which became quite normal rather than impossible. I’m not saying you have to experience a miracle healing to understand psychosis at all, or even that you should be interested in that. That’s my experience, I’m just trying to share part of it. There were of course behaviors involved/ I didn’t know how much drinking too much coffee was contributing, and having stopped that I didn’t know that a dis-inhibiting spurt to just do things more impulsively that that also was an escape from what you might call left brained activity, the part of the mind maybe setting up these goals and targets. What actually surprised me, was that in the end how sane the “psychosis” actually was in areas incredibly sane. There was the dis-inhibition of being petty at times, buying in social values and exaggerating them to such a degree that one could in the end only see to get away from such desires. Akin to when something (a belief) starts to loosen and and before detaching it actually shows how warped it was or indoctrinated from peer pressure and insecurity taking on social norms or needing to be critical. But then there were also truly spiritual insights cloaked in symbolism, or thoughts that just popped into my mind out of nowhere that contained information regarding actual themes in life going on, actual germinal elements that with the help of a healer I could clearly see weren’t “crazy” at all. In fact they were from beyond time, or beyond linear time because they contained connections and a theme regarding someone I hadn’t run into yet, and this was involved with what might be called a physical miracle. Without “psychosis” that theme might not have acquired the freedom to express itself, even thought it wasn’t worked out and I expressed a few things that were symbolic, which I knew the next day were, but that was too late. I was already labeled as someone non-reality-based and could be a danger, even insinuating I could become violent, and a whole list of other things which were only paranoid suspicions of a social worker (thankfully only teaching yoga at a parks and recreation class and not in control of whether I was committed or not) the whole list of other things which weren’t going on at all, but were alarmist paranoid discriminatory suspicions akin to what school children make up about someone who is just “weird” all of that [the paranoia] was considered to be going on, just because I expressed some stuff that wasn’t understood. Label a person “psychotic” and you can add on a whole list of stuff. That’s of course quite traumatizing although I had seen this happen to so many of my friends. In fact to be REAL clear regarding how UNTRUE the whole evaluation of “symptoms” is. During me simply trying to take a yoga class a very clear voice told me to stay away from this “teacher” to not even ask questions after class (I really was interested in yoga) and to just go there and leave. I knew I wasn’t doing anything that should be of concern, I had had it enough how people react just because they think you are weird, and didn’t follow that advice. But it WAS a very clear voice, as clear as one you hear on the outside from sound waves in the air. And so when this whole alarmist paranoia was in process, this “yoga teacher-social worker” said to a judge: “I know” and she sat up in her chair bobbing her head a bit: “I know, he doesn’t hear voices, he see things that aren’t there, it’s non-reality-based” I didn’t say anything regarding hearing voices or not, in fact she pretty much PROVED that hearing voices can be enlightening, and give extremely accurate information, although she just used it to denote symptoms of a mental illness. And over the years (quite a few 13 or so) I have come to learn that what I tried to express that she called “non-reality-based” was involved with leading towards a physical healing, which might be called a miracle, gave insights into past lifetimes and themes going on with another I hadn’t even met yet that also touched in with a miracle energy and the place of no time, or another dimension where time comes together to give meaning to life, and our belief system could be the germinal elements bringing such experience together, rather than it’s on the outside. I’m not even saying that should be anyone else’s experience, it was MINE. And it’s valid. Other people could have any number of other experiences having nothing to do with mine in content, but still pointing out perspective they simply didn’t know their behavior contained in it. So I did finally shed the fear of what I didn’t know was going on, and what was labeled as a disease, this was that after simply finding a couple of good therapists also, and beyond that a healer lady who is a true healer (was tested in a hospital when she noticed she could facilitate healing, tested because she wanted to know if she truly could help these vulnerable people that might be looking for metaphysical healing, and if she didn’t test to be able to she wouldn’t have started healing, she then in a hospital in Japan with thermal imagery and electrodes attached to her skull to see what kind of brain activity was going on got a cancerous tumor to disappear in ten minutes. Her brain activity also was that the left side of her brain actually was inactive And also was tested other times with the same manner of results). The healer lady has a sanctuary in virtual space where she simply says one should meditate twice a day for 20 minutes or once for 40. After the initial period of a couple of months the physical healing I was looking for got so much better it wasn’t bothering me, and I had to laugh with joy at things I could do I wasn’t able to before that.
That’s just ONE crazy things one can encounter. But trying not to be crazy rob you of an experience that will change your life. And life is meant to be LIVED. ALL OF IT! The stuff you loved and wanted to experience, and even the stuff you hated but impelled you into amazing things you didn’t know were there….. just because it went beyond your sanity filter…..
It’s a bit peculiar that mental health professionals come from more of an academic environment (usually), and I’m generalizing, but those who have been through what’s labeled as a “mental illness” or who have been labeled as lacking in Mental Health, or even themselves felt there was something wrong with them, would they have gained insight that doesn’t judge anymore responses that they didn’t understand, and gives them insight, this rather turns around the definitions of what’s Mentally Healthy or what isn’t.
That’s quite predominant in many fields concerning lived experience and academics, but in the mental health field it’s quite predominant.
It sounds like you really have helped people, that’s great, I’m sure you’ve helped people that otherwise might have been lost. Along with you there are those in the Mental Health field that have, you certainly state viewpoints that would help many if most people, although in general they may not be voiced at all. Just for someone to be able to state the medications aren’t working for them, and have a cogent response is quite progressive. But what if we are in a society that you get more points for being “immune” to the stuff that causes the symptoms of those that are labeled as not being mentally well, what if many of those symptoms if looked at differently come from people who simply can’t push away the feelings that something just isn’t right, that they are supposed to be happy with this society but it’s not working this way and they just can’t be happy anymore, what if fitting in and being “happy” just doesn’t work for them? And then you have the people that do know it’s not working for them, and instead of the trauma being acknowledged they are told their very human and vulnerable response to it is a disease?
Just to point out how the very terms involving judging a person’s mental state can become contradictory. Of course a person who is a good therapist will recognize when a person simply is out of the norm, and give room for that, or that they have experienced legitimate stuff that needs attention, and when acknowledged gives another viewpoint regarding society or themselves, a viewpoint that’s actually needed in society, would it survive? When an organism evolves to adapt to its environment it isn’t the whole general population that mutates, it’s only a few and they allow the organism or species to survive through evolution. It seems that what’s called the mental health system so often judges the very people that might have the perspective to be able to bring in the change that’s necessary for the whole population to actually gain insight into what’s really going on, and what’s healthy and what isn’t. Being “happy” to have adapted to the mob that isn’t flexible to change because that would otherwise cause problems,are those feelings a sign of mental problems or are they actually the germinal elements of insights that are actually needed in the society?
And it’s quite strange that so many people who have moved away from the standard mental health treatments, and who have gained such insight, that they aren’t acknowledged because they don’t promote the chemical imbalance theory. It’s in a way having people who have changed their diet from experience, changed their health or weight or any number of things, but if they aren’t going along with the academic teachings, they aren’t even considered as authorities that would help in mainstream nutritional counseling. When their problem is what encouraged them to look with open eyes, not censored by academics or accepted mainstream economic trends.
And in mental health the “symptoms” used to define illness or not aren’t even concrete, there is no real test for them in the sense that those doing the diagnosing even agree on them. Someone having difficulty fitting into a society, and the consequent symptoms, isn’t really a disease, nor is it a comment just on them.
Anyhow, thanks for your input Nancy, I just don’t want people to think they are “sick” because I know all of the extreme distress that goes with that, even trying to find a way to not feel that way, or behave that way, and in the end it was not judging the feelings or behaviors. Certainly when they were totally non violent. And then gaining insight in how I had reflexes towards escape I didn’t know existed, such as drinking too much coffee, and even when I stopped that it was the anxiety of slowing down my mind, simply out of insecurity; that stopped the “symptoms” but in reality even those “symptoms” allowed for a dis-inhibition where thoughts could come freely into my mind, or I wouldn’t judge things that I actually saw happen or experienced as impossible [and this is a WHOLE other conversation], and those thoughts were even in line with what might be called miracles (explained themes from other lifetimes when miracles happened, or one specific lifetime), and I experienced metaphysical things. Maybe I just had to allow my left brain to accept those things. If life has themes, and if it has meaning, that meaning and those themes express themselves in ways that are germinal elements for what we experience, not the other way around, and so such understanding remains a bit “non-reality-based” because it’s more objective than physical reality, which has remained the means used to judge what’s real and what isn’t. But thoughts are real. And art is real. And you might lose all of the symbolism going on with the emotions, and thoughts of the most severe “mental illnesses” such as “Schizophrenia,” would you call even those “symptoms” signs of a sick person. Maybe life has more mystery to it than to dismiss things not understood as non-reality-based? And I know from my own experiences that as soon as you go beyond certain boundaries of what’s considered reality based, or are just a bit different and weird, even actually interested in what it is to be human rather than what others think of you, that people are going to make up the most alarmist paranoia about you, and then think that that’s valid. That, along with fear of and alarmist judgements on the supposedly non-reality-based stuff that’s labeled as psychosis actually can be seen as very unhealthy mental behavior, but it’s pretty much standard for many mental health workers. “Psychosis” might be a way of escaping fitting in with a prevalent alarmist paranoia in society that’s considered “sane” or a consensual reality deportment, or a statistical based norm. Evolution hasn’t come from statistical based norms or consensual reality deportment, it comes from the few organisms that mutate away from that, I think.
My point actually was that a child that is going to end up diagnosed with a mental illness, although it may be completely true that being able to see how you’re in control of your own emotions, and that you can’t change the stuff around you, and as is stated here: “Choice Theory involves shifting from an external control psychology, the belief that our behavior (thoughts, feelings, actions and to a certain extent our physiology) is determined by outside forces, such as luck, circumstances and other people, to an internal control psychology, knowing we always have choices and understanding that we direct and are responsible for our choices and resulting consequences.” when you are dealing with people who never have been given the legroom to know how they feel, to start telling them they are responsible for what happens in their life this could be missing a whole step. I think you have to be able to know how you feel, I think you need to have the matrix of reflexes to engage with your own feelings before you can start knowing how to make decisions for yourself. Imagine telling a person who has never been allowed to express how they feel, that their very feelings of distress, anger, anxiety, sadness, all the rest, that they are there because of choices they’ve made, and that they are in control. In the meantime they may not even know why they feel that way, they may not have the reflexes to identify what it is that causes those feelings because every time they tried to express those feelings they were met with such a response that they disassociated, and so their whole response to begin with is to subconsciously push those feelings away to such an extent there’s no bridge to where they came from, or why they were there. What is it going to do to such a person to tell them they are in control of feelings, that depends on the choices they make, while that might yet again be another occurrence of those feelings being seen as something to avoid, to judge, to want to get rid of?
Just as forgiveness in a complete form can be getting out of a situation and then not judging the people you needed to get away from, trusting the Universe, enjoying life rather than looking to get badges for staying in the situation and being “forgiving,” feelings that are “bad” or that you don’t want could simply be feelings that you need to allow, because they’re there for a reason. Having a formula to make someone happy and have good mental wellness when that becomes yet another example of “this feeling is there because of my own choices, it’s my fault etc.” when in reality someone may not even know why they feel that feeling, they have had to disassociate from making such connections their whole life, and telling them it’s their own choices that they have such feelings, when the real choices that they never have been allowed to make remain beyond their matrix of understanding, this could only cause more stress in their life. They don’t know why they feel that way, they don’t know why the feeling is there, they need to feel that feeling just to gain insight into what they have been disassociating from their whole life, and the feeling is once again analyzed in a way to isolate it as on object to want or not to want rather than it’s just allowed, which would make room for the perspective that’s needed.
I’m sure that: Choice Theory Psychology has helped many people, and that it does wonderful things. But sometimes a feeling just has to be felt, and sometimes it’s better not to talk at all about good or bad mental wellness, because saying a person has bad mental wellness implies that they need to change or gives them a formula to change rather than being allowed to feel and express what’s just waiting to give them some insights that only such feelings can. Without looking to avoid them, to change them, to judge them as good or bad.
You don’t push happiness away. Why would someone judge other feelings before knowing what they express?
Thank you Robert Whitaker for your careful patient response.
There’s this paragraph:
“Unlike Beam, Whitaker doesnāt clearly address how the quality of psychiatric care is proportional to the resources allocated to it, and how our society ā not just psychiatry ā has often chosen not to care for the mentally ill properly. The anti-psychiatry movement has unsuccessfully lobbied to outlaw involuntary treatment in any circumstance ā even when schizophrenia impairs sufferersā judgment to the point where they reject all help and their illness makes them a threat to themselves or (rarely) others.”
I wonder if mentioning that the drug companies had to pay 6 billion dollars because of falsely advertising bipolar medications, hiding side effects, that this addresses the point already. Where does such money fit into where resources are allocated, when there’s even in the “review” talk of how ineffective those medications are. There’s no problem for a person with a diagnosis, and on disability to get 1000 dollars worth of psychiatric medications a month from their insurance, but for them to get the kind of help that’s more effective, or simply is effective, there’s hardly any money when it’s not related to the matrix of psychiatric medication; added to this such help is less costly than the medications which are more in collusion with the spike in mental illness than a lessening. Peaceful housing, activities that help bring comfort to the brain such as yoga, mindfulness training, art lessons, music lessons, acting lessons, resources to get in touch with nature, therapy that isn’t drug based, rehab facilities to help a person get off of psychiatric drugs that have caused a whole array of added on “medications” and diagnosis that logically could be seen to come from side effects of initial medications, and if there was integrity to honoring cause and effect such rehab facilities should at least be tried. And if they worked, which for many many people who have done it on their own it has shown to, then that again saves all of the 1000 dollars a month of supposedly necessary resources for the whole duration of their application (12,000 dollars a year) that the reviewer says aren’t being honored. So, in essence Robert Whitaker directly addresses exactly what the review says he doesn’t. What he doesn’t do is advocate for putting more money into what’s labeled as care while the implementation of such care correlates with the spike in the occurrence of the problem it is said to alleviate. Those are simple logical conclusions that when there is such a spike in mental illness which parallels the use of the chemical imbalance theory, that other methods should be tried, certainly if they are more cost effective. Instead you have the call for more resources allocated towards what statistically hasn’t panned out, while disqualifying funding resources that do correlate with recovery rather than the ideology of the unproven chemical imbalance theory.
I’m sorry, but I truly wonder whether such an analytical method truly helps regarding responses that are subconscious or unconscious responses. Feelings are subconscious, and trying by any means to first analyze them, then decide which ones are good and which ones are bad, and where they come from, this could be like taking a fish out of the water to see what it is, and you’ve killed the fish.
Emotions are made to be felt, deciding this isn’t a good emotion, and I want it to go away, and using the left side of the brain to develop strategy, even when you’ve accomplished this you might be worse off. Because the natural intelligence that comes with the emotion when felt, intelligence that’s also so subtle you can’t fit it into the calculations of the conscious mind, it’s more intertwined with life than that. Simply not pushing an emotion away, but allowing it can get rid of the discomfort that came from pushing it away, not the emotion itself.
I’ve had thoughts that would be labeled as schizophrenic happen, simple thoughts regarding themes in life that for one day bled into my conscious mind, like the kind of eidetic memory that say Tesla had. Visceral depictions of something inner, potential and symbolic of interactions that are impelling. The next day I realized that stuff I needed to be able to consciously relate to had superimposed in a way that could be seen as non-reality based, and even though I was COMPLETELY non-violent in contrast to those deciding I was some danger, it made no difference when I had the next day realized I was a bit off. Those thoughts then 13 years later pointed out so clearly things regarding life, and time, and what life is about, and how a miracle resonates with themes in life and touches upon others I hadn’t even met yet, that the whole idea that those thoughts needed to be seen as crazy, or stuff that comes from bad decisions on my part, or any of what “psychiatry” would come up with, such that even any analyses regarding whether they are reality based or not falls short.
And I’m sorry again, but the example of what mentally healthy is you list above can be seen as quite non reality based to anyone who every day has to deal with what you have even listed as going on in the asylum, and then further more outside of the asylum, which might have forced them into one. I’ve never been committed to an asylum during the incarnation this body has had so far, I’ve never been forced on or taken psychiatric drugs, but yet EVERY DAY I have to deal with SEVERE discrimination because of alarmist paranoia in society regarding how my mind works, when my brain is HEALTHY. I can only imagine what it’s like for those whose civil liberties were taken away from them who are surrounded by those who only see them as broken, diseased and flawed when they have logical and understandable reactions to trauma in life that they either can’t or don’t know how to respond to or express. And then have to deal with the chemical imbalance the MEDICATIONS have caused in their brain disabling it from natural functions, the whole while being told the untruth that the meds are necessary to treat exactly what they are causing instead, and even if they know these truths aren’t allowed to express them because they’d be seen as non compliant to treatment and forced on more. Somehow somebody with such a life isn’t going to fit into your analyses of whether they are mentally healthy or not, as little as those in a war zone, suffering extreme poverty, living in an autocratic regime or worse. Maybe they just need someone to listen to them so that they feel it’s OK to even feel any emotion, let alone analyze it as good or bad, what to do this about or not? Maybe the emotions THEMSELVES when allowed and simply given some legroom have an intelligence all their own and then solutions are found, rather than they already are analyzed before they are even given the space to be felt.
Emotions are meant to be felt. To once again be offered a whole school of how to make one “mentally well” can be like these drugs you say “People did experience temporary relief of their symptoms and upsets” when in reality you have to admit there was no true relief. And it’s simply discrimination in society in general. Women lack the ability to make rational decisions because they are emotional was even put forth as the reason they weren’t allowed to vote or have positions in government or religion. There’s this untrue concept that emotions are irrational. It’s simply wrong, and it could be that someone having an observably “happy” life with “emotional well being” in reality is maybe too sterile to feel the emotions of someone that’s actually experienced what’s going on in a society not quite as functional as its made out to be, and those emotions themselves when allowed have answers rather than deciding one is to find a means to turn them off, and then one is mentally healthy. Maybe such inhibiting isn’t mentally healthy, no matter how uncomfortable that may seem to the fantasy people have that they shouldn’t be feeling what they make strategies to avoid. No matter how disruptive or inappropriate it might seem to others when those emotions aren’t avoided and express themselves in whatever way is left for them to find an outlet.
Emotions exist to be felt, that’s why they exist, that’s what their purpose is, and they involve all manner of natural instincts with perspective and insights that one isn’t going to find deciding how to censor which ones one should be feeling and which ones one shouldn’t.
Brenda Schaeffer, you leave no clear reference as to what you feel is a snide remark. I was simply depicting what brainwashing can do, and how that can be related to the advertising that goes on with Capitalism for profit. With the washing, stuff gets so covered up that one doesn’t know what one is throwing out.
No, I don’t think that it is a snide remark when one is attempting to expose the push towards psychiatric treatment that forces drugs on people, when the drugs can be clearly pointed out with statistics to be interpreted to be in collusion with the spike in mass shootings and the spike in the occurrence of what is labeled as mental illnesses. That in contrast to the advertisements that they are needed to stop it. That was my simple depiction of brainwashing.
Mind Freedom, an organization that also promotes non violent activism, they had a hunger strike asking the drug companies in 2003 for proof of their chemical imbalance theory, they couldn’t do that: https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/ and because of the confidentiality implied with medical records, the information regarding psychiatric drugs and mass shootings remains hidden, often. Despite that, anti-depressants have a warning label that they can cause homicidal and suicidal thoughts. I happen to out of nowhere have had a conversation with a man on a bus who stated that he had a foster care facility close to where the Columbine shootings happened, and both the boys from that shooting would come to his foster care facility, play pool, and told how they had been bullied in school, how they went to the principle who sent them to the sheriff, who sent them to the principle, and nothing was done. The ring leader of the two boys also told how his medications had been changed to Luvox, and how he had been having hateful thoughts towards everyone (his teachers, friends, family, girlfriend etc.) and the doctor had told him to just keep taking the medications. That was a few weeks before the shootings. And the truth regarding such collusion was bought out by the drug companies, when a legal case was brought out. When people here on this site, expose such truths, they are preventing mass shootings, not making snide remarks causing them. There is in fact a whole congregation of people on this site that would know better than to tell that boy to just keep on taking medications that were having such a response from him, and THAT could have PREVENTED the shootings.
As Mind Freedom is a site promoting non violent resistance, I’ve been a protester against wars. I’ve also been in several situations where I could have been in extreme danger, but I knew how to de-escalate the situation, and still see the humanity in the other person. The very concept of understanding where another person is coming from, and certainly if they have legitimate trauma that needs to be acknowledged, rather than the symptoms of the expression of it turned off with psychiatric drugs (see the example I gave of the conversation on a bus), this has to go beyond: “this is the solution because that’s what we’re told.”
It’s easy to throw out a catch phrase that is supposed to resonate with a whole matrix of assumptions (those not promoting psychiatric drugs are causing mass shootings) and see their attempt to describe how such brainwashing in advertising muddies the waters as a snide remark. But that [such categorizing] in itself may be a sign of not allowing thought, and trying to cover up anything deviating from such assumptions. Because one is trying to categorize a whole matrix of medley of responses without looking at the context. Muddying the waters.
Brenda Schaeffer, you leave no clear reference as to what you feel is a snide remark. I was simply depicting what brainwashing can do, and how that can be related to the advertising that goes on with Capitalism for profit. With the washing, stuff gets so covered up that one doesn’t know what one is throwing out.
No, I don’t think that it is a snide remark when one is attempting to expose the push towards psychiatric treatment that forces drugs on people, when the drugs can be clearly pointed out with statistics to be interpreted to be in collusion with the spike in mass shootings and the spike in the occurrence of what is labeled as mental illnesses. That in contrast to the advertisements that they are needed to stop it. That was my simple depiction of brainwashing.
Mind Freedom, an organization that also promotes non violent activism, they had a hunger strike asking the drug companies in 2003 for proof of their chemical imbalance theory, they couldn’t do that: https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/ and because of the confidentiality implied with medical records, the information regarding psychiatric drugs and mass shootings remains hidden, often. Despite that, anti-depressants have a warning label that they can cause homicidal and suicidal thoughts. I happen to out of nowhere have had a conversation with a man on a bus who stated that he had a foster care facility close to where the Columbine shootings happened, and both the boys from that shooting would come to his foster care facility, play pool, and told how they had been bullied in school, how they went to the principle who sent them to the sheriff, who sent them to the principle, and nothing was done. The ring leader of the two boys also told how his medications had been changed to Luvox, and how he had been having hateful thoughts towards everyone (his teachers, friends, family, girlfriend etc.) and the doctor had told him to just keep taking the medications. That was a few weeks before the shootings. And the truth regarding such collusion was bought out by the drug companies, when a legal case was brought out. When people here on this site, expose such truths, they are preventing mass shootings, not making snide remarks causing them. There is in fact a whole congregation of people on this site that would know better than to tell that boy to just keep on taking medications that were having such a response from him, and THAT could have PREVENTED the shootings.
As Mind Freedom is a site promoting non violent resistance, I’ve been a protester against wars. I’ve also been in several situations where I could have been in extreme danger, but I knew how to de-escalate the situation, and still see the humanity in the other person. The very concept of understanding where another person is coming from, and certainly if they have legitimate trauma that needs to be acknowledged, rather than the symptoms of the expression of it turned off with psychiatric drugs (see the example I gave of the conversation on a bus), this has to go beyond: “this is the solution because that’s what we’re told.”
It’s easy to throw out a catch phrase that is supposed to resonate with a whole matrix of assumptions (those not promoting psychiatric drugs are causing mass shootings) and see their attempt to describe how such brainwashing in advertising as a snide remark, but that in itself may be a sign of not allowing thought, and trying to cover up anything deviating from such assumptions. Because one is trying to categorize a whole matrix of medley of responses without looking at the context. Muddying the waters.
There is then a Brenda Schaeffer who maintains that falling in love with the wrong person and not being able to let go is like a chemical imbalance, and you will have withdrawal symptoms etc. Science shows that psychiatric drugs also cause chemical imbalance rather than treating it, and then there’s the rest addiction, withdrawal, side effects etc. And there are many on this site that would not promote taking psychiatric drugs to treat a chemical imbalance because the resonant scientific data says it does the opposite, it causes one. Same as the example of the Columbine shootings, thereās quite a bit of evidence that it made things worse…..
To label an attempt to expose that as snide behavior, this could mean that one would need to take account themselves what they have invested in as needing respect, being an authority, andā¦.
In regard to what causes mass shootingsā¦ā¦.
Thanks for writing this. I wish I could see and read what your mother left behind, that you say you can’t make much sense out of. Having been in such places myself, I might be able to touch upon the symbolism, and sort of fill in the gaps between what her soul was trying to say and how much they allowed her brain to resonate with it. A lot of stuff that seems to lack sense can end up meaning a lot more than what we’ve been programmed to pass as having meaning. And I find that kind of stuff fascinating.
Replying to Brenda Schaefer: If you haven’t found material on this site that answers all your “questions” with no, you haven’t looked enough at the material here. And no, although you insinuate they [your questions] are rhetorical, there are clear answers pointing out that this site doesn’t oppress differing views as you maintain. If you are going to ask a question, then let it be a real one, out of curiosity.
Richard I agree here. Even a person who has become so “Capitalist” that they lack the ability to empathize with those whose lives have been pilled and ruined economically by what fills theirs coffers, but yet they have had to adapt to a society that perpetuates the ideology that trauma, fear, coercion, the ability to intimidate and control through threats called deterrence is what you have to adapt to and obey to survive. I’m NOT saying that is always how it works, nor that Communism might not give such freedom beyond such, I’m just trying to make a point not to say that there’s only way way that would work.
From your statement here: “I donāt think you would be calling the socially unacceptable (and quite often self-defeating) behaviors that get labeled as āmental illness,ā ā āevil.ā
Are they not āadaptiveā behaviors to a very stressful and often traumatic world?”
You of course are referring to the fact that people who behave in a way that doesn’t give them points for fitting into the society that deems their behavior inappropriate, and in not adapting to that they are adapting to what lies beyond, because they can’t adapt to the confines of such a society and instead end up adapting to giving their wounds some space, some legroom, rather than being “functional.”
I’m perhaps taking it one step further that people who can’t express at all their trauma, they adapt to the society that rewards them for going along with the rewards of authoritarianism (even though they have lost their humanity to such a degree they don’t know what they are compromising themselves to, and in contrast to those whose behavior is labeled “inappropriate” rather than authoritarian, they have further cut themselves out of of being able to truly express their trauma. Which goes to show further the importance to allow that, to allow things deemed inappropriate etc. or self defeating, when this gives space or legroom to trauma that needs to be expressed, and that space might open up those gravitating towards authoritarianism to also be able to express their trauma rather than “adapting” to what their fear tells them “survival” is…… that might change things more that anything else.
When they have lost their soul and are trying to adapt out of fear.
But you say that: “Capitalism by its very nature AND design is built upon a hierarchical structure of unequal classes and inherent exploitation of one class over another.” One could argue that Communism does the same in ways, only rewarding those who go along with the program of what conceived of as being of good to the state. Capitalism might reward someone that does something completely against the beliefs of a society, would he be able to prove that it has value and convince others. It doesn’t have to first be approved of. And I’m NOT saying that Communism is built upon a hierarchical structure of unequal classes in contrast to Capitalism.
And you state that: “The working classes are NEVER paid the full value of the labor they create. They often live in the barest of subsistence levels of survival, and ultimately are made to fight (and die for) wars of political and economic domination over other nations and peoples.”
It seems to me that Europe, although much more socialist than the US, there are a handful of countries the working classes are better taken care of than other places regarding finances. But Europe still remains mostly Capitalistic, albeit it’s their socialist tendencies that take care that the workers in certain countries are better taken care of.
So you can’t really generalize in such a fashion, although socialism one could clearly argue is the mitigating factor that makes for the change that the workers there are better taken care of.
Socialism or Communism, where one to take the good from either or both might in the end boil down to the same thing, honoring potential.
I don’t know what to call that, but it certainly would involve a person expressing their experience of life, their viewpoint, their thoughts, how they see things, their own innate insight, passions and instincts…..
Removed for moderation.
In response to “Brenda Schaeffer” If you are going to accuse “someone” on this site of accusing parents of being the blame for their children’s behavior in class when they can’t control themselves, you haven’t stated who that person is.
Further more, listing someone as anti-pharma again without stating what he has reported, this is labeling someone without backing it up.
THAT is your brand of science?
Such and such fixes a situation, anyone pointing out what contrary results are is either
1) not helping anyone
2) blocking anyone who argues against the evidence that of the ineffectiveness of the treatment
3)only allowing that anti-whatever-is-supposed-to-be-fixing-the-problem, whether it does or not
4)failing or lacking in funds to continue
5) behaving in a fascist authoritarian way
You also share precognition of whether Bob is going to continue underwriting this site, as if you know him personally or have other insights. Are there any other predictions you want to make while trying to ridicule the people here as not being able to help anyone? That isn’t the case at all. You only have to read what’s reported here. If people aren’t being helped by their “medications” and they can’t express that without being accused of being non compliant or a danger to themselves or others; when what they in reality are doing is giving themselves the space and information to find out what could help them beyond mainstream methods; when they might need to know whether getting away from a disabling agent would work for them, then YOU aren’t going to find out if it does or not while accusing those wanting to find evidence of whether a different method might work of the five above listed accusations. And those are just five. The same as people that keep their own lives contrary to what a dictator or authoritarian system would do do not start sharing what is effective for them when they can’t without such accusations and thus could be imprisoned as non conforming. This should answer the questions you bring up here regarding this site https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/11/capitalism-whats-destroying-collective-mental-health/#comment-202724 I don’t see that 225 to250 dollars per session supplies such freedom https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/brenda-schaeffer-minneapolis-mn/54111 nor having a whole website https://www.brendaschaeffer.com/ and books and retreats….. No that doesn’t secure safety for people to heal that might be threatened with the kind of accusations you’ve displayed.
You can read here on this site numerous very clear analyses of what psychiatric medications can do that the drug companies don’t report, what the statistics are regarding recovery when they are involved, how their implementation corresponds with the current spike in mental illness. All from grounded scientific evidence. And then more scientific evidence pointing out that it’s not alleged that psychiatric medications cause chemical imbalance but it still remains only alleged that they treat them, in fact the drug companies have stopped looking to try to prove such allegations for the most part, and as yet haven’t supplied any conclusive evidence.
Someone who reports this regarding the medications used for children that are deemed out of control, and how those medications could not be effective, and does this with scientific evidence (which Robert Whitaker’s books also supply) this is reporting that, that isn’t blaming anything on parents. In fact those two things are separate, if that is even what you are going on about. Since you make statements without referring to who they are about as well as accusations of blaming parents without how that was done, and then saying someone is anti-pharma without again stating what that person has said, and then implying you know how long this site is going to last, who is supporting it financially as well as. Then you go on about whether this site helps people, stating that: “They donāt know what to do for the severely depressed, the suicidal, the manic and schizophrenics who are desperately seeking a bit of relief from their torment,” while simply reading through the material on this site, the stories, would tell you the truth that this site does help many people. Beyond that there are many people who wouldn’t be allowed to express that what this site reports has helped them, because the mental health system could label them as non-compliant and force them on the very treatments that they got away from that weren’t helping them. That also you can read numerous reports of on this site, again regarding your question in another “post” regarding what’s authoritarian or fascist.
No, simply reporting scientific evidence against drugs that cause chemical imbalance, are reported to do the opposite, that statistically have caused an increase in what they are said to heal, and also are highly addictive with all the problems there as well: withdrawal symptoms and side effects — reporting that isn’t anti-pharm, that’s pointing out what kind of problems the pills could cause or have caused.
Reporting evidence, also possibly of scientific material put out by the drug companies themselves but can logically be interpreted differently to be contrary to their claims, this wouldn’t be blaming anyone’s parents either (nor anything or anyone else you’re accusing such open mindedness of doing), but exposing what could end up not being helpful to these children, although it is sold and promoted as being helpful. When it’s said that the problem isn’t the parents because putting attention on something else fixes it when otherwise the parents might be blamed, when there’s problems pointed out with what “something else” really does when implemented as a mendicant to the situation this in no way is blaming the parents. As much as it avoids really looking at what “something else” is really doing for those invested in it, saying that blame is put on the parents because “something else” is questioned is not true. That something else would have to actually fix the problem.
Yes medications are supposed to promote healing, but when they don’t do that, to report the scientific and statistical evidence behind their possible ineffectiveness isn’t some war on medications, it’s promoting the truth rather than handing someone a pill because they are made out to be healing tools, and then disregarding whether they do that or not.
Reporting the scientific truth regarding psychiatric medications when they aren’t effective, or even against what they are said to accomplish, this isn’t anti-pharma, that’s pro-healing, pro-science and pro truth and intelligence. As well as reporting what might get in the way of brain health.
Of course, as soon as students start showing signs of natural responses to trauma, or God Forbid empathy for what others have to go through who aren’t so privileged to end up at Yale or other Ivy League Colleges…
How dare they not be happy to be so privileged….
Let alone what their schools teach regarding “mental health.”
Also Richard, you’re not defending Communism.
Prohibiting humor while implying that Steve said or did something he didn’t isn’t defending this placard that shall not be tarnished.
I think Steve really honors communism, although I can’t speak for him, but I don’t want to take it out of context put it on a pedestal and disable the goodness it can do.
I also DO NOT think it’s fair to people such as Miles Horton https://www.aaihs.org/myles-horton-highlander-and-the-beloved-community/ who helped both Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks.
I had friends that had to play at funerals in order to survive financially. And had this story of a lady who had were underarms botoxed because otherwise she might tarnish her wedding dress. And evidently she advertised this. I had to dwell on this for a moment, when a serious concern hit me: “What if she farts!?”
It’s crude I know, but you gotta do what you gotta do…..
āSo does your sarcastic humor {mocking human attempts at building a classless society} imply that you believe that a class based profit system FILLED with multiple forms of exploitation (including the medical model) is the very best that human beings are capable of?ā
One can replace “class based profit system” with numerous other phrases to make the same argument regarding “Communism.”
1) social heirarchy
2) doing things condoned by the state as being good for the all
3) fitting the status quo of communism
4) make up your own
And by the way, “Capitalism” hasn’t necessarily supported the “medical model” because if the system supporting the “profits” of the drug companies were to continue in the way it is now headed statistically, we would end up with having a society full of so many people incapacitated with their “medications” that it wouldn’t be capable of producing what it would need to continue.
Capitalism in essence is about potential, same as communism, that you get rewards by offering something that people find of value….. It’s just the rewards system is not seen as the same.
If they aren’t really offering something that is of value for the society, regardless of the system, the society in the end falls apart.
.
An alternative version to the last two paragraphs of my post:
In all respect, but isn’t it implying class levels when you turn around what Steve is saying because it doesn’t fit your formula? I think you have to look at what a different outlook you’re not familiar with is saying. “Communism” and “Capitalism” (please note the quotation marks) are both routined in brainwashing, that anything not according to their formula is not the way to go about it. Steve’s sharing of a joke is a quite enlightened and effective way of going past such formulas. Anyone with perspective would see that the joke isn’t about either ideology when it’s actually honored, but regarding what comes of fundamentalism. And because it’s a joke, it needs no quotation marks. And that was the whole point of trying to bring balance into this discussion. Where the article basically says that people are mentally ill because of the very system which leaves those in charge of the system not having such “illnesses” according to the article. And this has nothing to do with them profiting off of such labels? I’m sure you could take the same formula and look at “Communist” places, and have pretty much the same results. But you might be still labeling and pushing away the same responses that actually can make change when just felt and not seen as a disease, nor pushed away as a disease.”Communists” were more overt in drugging those they found non compliant to their political ideology. “Capitalism” seems to be more covert, and this is yet another example of it. “YOU’RE making us sick, and thus WE are sick, and it’s YOUR fault,” I don’t necessarily find so empowering. In fact it’s defining a response that when NOT seen as a disease might ring in the natural instincts and intelligence that might change things…….
It’s quite amazing you would know whether Van Gogh and Winston Churchill would disagree, albeit that being a generic response from the mental health system that they can fix up people who fortunately are beyond their reach (listed as deceased), and statistically are helping to create more people who become deceased with their treatments, it still requires the real voice of those they say they are fixing up. You are free to have either one come and express their disagreement, and post this anywhere online.
Further more, if the whole Royal family decided to get mental health treatment this still doesn’t mean that it’s working. Any list of people in the public eye, and behaving in a way to maintain their image, get points on corporate media for going along with what’s being promoted there, this is more expressive of the game theory going on that there’s loss if they don’t take mainstream methods that would give them points, because they loose their public image. It remains statistically true that the mental health system rather than decreasing mental illness has increased it, that their story of treating chemical imbalance has never been proven, that they even have pretty much given up on being able to prove it, and in the meantime true science says that they are causing chemical imbalance with their pharmacological treatments. In short that their medications cause chemical imbalance has been proven, it’s not alleged, in contrast to that they treat chemical imbalance. That is what the general public ends up being treated with or often forced to endure, and the result is an epidemic, not a lessening of the occurrence.
The whole lifestyle of a group of people that if their lifestyle was transposed to the general public would cause impossible stress on the whole system of resources of this planet, they don’t represent the general public at all. Certainly not statistically, no matter how many points they get, or how good it makes them feel to get points from “the mental health system.”
Lady Gaga by the way has said that although she ended up taking anti-depressants that that is one thing she wouldn’t recommend.
And again, statistics themselves disagree with whether the current mainstream trends in mental health treatment are effective, hauling out a number of people who as a minority did feel they got help, whether they are famous or whether they are another part of the minority, this doesn’t change the statistics, it only points out more why the mental health system doesn’t work, and that they aren’t looking at the results in a realistic way regarding whether their methods are truly working. Instead they suppress other methods that are effective. No amount of drug company profits are going to change that.
“The very definition of a stateless and classless communist society is one DEVOID of ANY forms of human exploitation.”
Wow, I haven’t quite read that in “communist” Russia’s ideology, but it sure fits. They don’t exploit human beings at all, they just ship those unworthy to Siberia, the rest have to comply, and do that willingly, finding the true soul of what it is to be human. Thus it is a stateless and classless society, those wanting to divide things up into states and classes end up in Siberia. Much more efficient that having them die on skid row.
I could list a highly communist society that is completely classless and stateless (since “someone” said they haven’t ever existed and Steve “KNOWS” this), but I wouldn’t want to bother them given such “advertisement” they are supposed to fit into. Nor do I want to be labeled as unrealistic, since those people aren’t interested in being part of the media information which would do what it does to anything it can’t get its hands on, regardless of which “ideology” is running it. They have existed for at least 30,000 years. They also could be seen as capitalistic, since they honor potential, which is what capitalism is meant to be, that those that have something to offer to the whole are rewarded for it. So anyone could say the same regarding Capitalism, that it offers anyone who is truly willing to give to the whole of society gets rewarded, making it in that essence classless, since that potential is there for anyone. But then you have what a world believing trauma is a means of mind control turns into both theories. Both communism and capitalism are just possible tools, like when you build something. I think you need more than one tool. Fighting about which is the right one only prevents them working together. That society, which is classless and everyone is honored for who they are (the first things they hear when born is “we are with you on your journey, and that’s also the last things they hear) does exist without money, but it’s dying off, their own choice: they aren’t reproducing because there’s no room left for them.
You can read the works of Marlo Morgan and see that they exist, which I’m not going to argue about, because I don’t need to, nor about the plethora of stuff that would be called impossible by both the noble “Communists” or “Capitalists,” or anyone else so full of knowing what’s possible that they know. Same as they know “mental illness” has to be a chemical imbalance because it “can’t” be anything else. Everything from how they stay healthy (knowledge of plant healing and energy modalities we either forsake or say it impossible) to their knowledge of the Universe, natural abilities we call miracles, and the very technology age old constructions around the planet we wouldn’t be able to build with our present technology they have no problem knowing is possible, stuff Tesla knew was possible and could explain quite a bit of but was suppressed by both ideologies. Aliens from other planets can visit them, which has happened at least once, without the aliens ending up in area 51 with the government trying to warp their technology to what it couldn’t even go round in circles in time resonating with, instead remaining intangible and unexploitable to the war industries. Always have and always will.
Is THAT enough for “someone” to say I’m crazy, because THAT has never happened but THIS is the way it would work. So we can again say it’s crazy for anyone to point out maybe it works differently and has been around the whole time….
And Richard YOU are the one trying to make out there are classes the way you try to intimidate Richard by turning what he said around and twisting it into such contortions it’s not recognizable as anything he said at all, as if such exploitation of ideology is a moral mask giving you the right to not actually see what someone said when it doesn’t fit your formula.
It’s called brainwashing. “Communism” and “Capitalism” are quite routined in it.gure trying to chastise a child that it still can giggle rather than to take on this facade of “activisionism and TRUE insight.”
True….
This whole article is still making me a bit hysterical.
I really think it’s the “capitalists” or rather than branch of them that could as easily be called “socialists” when it involves how they gang together into guilds (Whitaker has co-written a book on this), and thus share the wealth amongst each other; it’s them that have coined with the DSM these diagnosis that are steered towards profits for the drug Industries, along with a suppression of dissent, and fear of not fitting in with fear based indoctrination at social, institutional and religious levels.
WHY then does this article use the definitions coined by the capitalists in order to prove that capitalism causes such? Capitalism WANTS you to see it as a disease. WHAT if you simply felt it when you were “depressed” or “anxious” or any of the others!? WHAT if you felt it rather than pushing it away as a disease!? Pushing it away might be the major cause of the discomfort!? Would you not see it as something to push away, would you just feel it, you might find something money can’t buy you. I don’t think that’s caused by capitalism, and I don’t think it’s a disease….
The level of nonsense going on here:
“Study finds first direct evidence of a link between low serotonin and depression”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/05/study-finds-first-evidence-of-link-between-low-serotonin-levels-and-depression
To begin with, if they are now finding the first direct link to the serotonin hypothesis, isn’t this after serotonin re-uptake inhibitors have been FDA approved for how many years? Even for a direct link (rather than proof, which is isn’t, it’s only listed as a “direct” perception from those looking for a link) it’s a bit late isn’t it?
Beyond that those “medications” don’t increase serotonin, they do that for awhile in the beginning, then the brain stops producing as much (along with a host of other side effects) and you have less serotonin.
Thus, if that link was direct, and true, then everyone who has been on such anti-depressants beyond the initial transition period needs to get off of them, or they will get depressed.
What are they really saying, that actually they are lying to you: less than normal serotonin is good for you, and that is what prevents depression (along with more than normal), and anti-depressants do both, but they can’t tell you that. So in reality, you need to be lied to, and that will decrease your depression? It’s all about ideology, the more of a lie it is the more fantastic it seems, and it’s this fantastic quality that beats depression!
You have to PURSUE happiness, if you weren’t being lied to, you would have found [attained] it and cease to pursue….
After my first try at having to follow how such pretense is put forth, I rather went to something else. Then read it again, and got through it, but along the line, maybe half way [hopefully] one does start to feel like something is weighing down on one, and this made me wonder to what degree and/or whether having to read yet another expose on this redundant corruption leads to depression. Anger, Confusion, ODD…..
And yet, if you read it, and can follow it, you learn something you wouldn’t have if you believe depression, anger, confusion, ODD etc. are “diseases.”
That is just SO NICE of these amazing authorities [Prof Oliver Howes, a consultant psychiatrist based at Imperial College and Kingās College London, and a co-author] to teach us this. It may make you think that it’s making you sick having to decipher how they have you going round in circles, lead you into disarray or are simply lying to you, but in the end you’ll learn that you aren’t sick at all…..
Apparently [Prof] Howes has a whole list of conclusions quite possibly as warped ready for deciphering. https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/oliver-howes Quite a smorgasborg: Treatment resistance to [schizophrenia] treatment that has to be listed as being based on hypothesis.
“Direct evidence for a link,” this to make you know they aren’t working with ‘indirect” evidence when searching for a link that for how many years has never really turned up. That from the title of the Guardian article: “Study finds first direct evidence of a link between low serotonin and depression.”
And the excellence of the research is highlighted by failing to list how many times already this “first direct evidence” has been found for yet again the “first” time. Evidently the second time they found this first direct link just wasn’t enough. And at what negative location did they start counting to consistently end up at positive one again? If they tried six times for the first to emerge, they started at negative five, you see….. then comes investigating what this link listed as direct really links up to…..
This is really ground breaking though, as institutions go, I’m looking forward to seeing the building built to house their future investigations of yet another first direct evidence, it would be quite miraculous would they have enough legroom to work this out, and once the building is built, and they give up, which is quite reasonable would one conclude the eventually of such, given evidence, then there’s this empty building. Maybe all the homeless people that were supposed to be fixed by this groundbreaking cure yet to be found, maybe they can have a home, right there, and prove there are other ways.
I hadn’t but skimmed over this article, but I also find it a bit “funny” after calmly reading through it. If one would take it seriously, then one would think that those who are privileged by their lack of empathy, by their hard liner ideals that they deserve what they prevent others from getting, that pretentious materialistic debauchery (being spoiled rotten with superficial things) and the ability to deceive others is a sign of sanity; and those abused by all of that are the ones with “mental illnesses.”
WHO is ADVERTISING what as some “mental health” problem listed as a “disease” based on said “symptoms!?” I really think it’s the one’s made out to be “sane.”
“Other studies show that capitalists and managers report better psychological well-being than workers and supervisors.”
Also, having tried TWICE to get it right, first I wrote in my first post here: “Advertising from capitalism is destroying are mental health,” tried to correct that as: “Advertising from Capitalism is destroying out mental health,” and it should be
ADVERTISING FROM CAPITALISM IS DESTROYING OUR MENTAL HEALTH
We’ve become consumers that are so addicted, we think that pills can create “mental health,” and when that creates instead an epidemic, we believe that needs to be forced on people. And those leading all of that onslaught are then heralded as “sane.” We’re brainwashed.
Who exactly is forcing people to buy stuff at McDonald’s, Wallmarts, to load up on the latest fashions brought on by peer pressure and the fear of being different, to let an idea of convenience destroy their ability to think for themselves as long as it involves pressing a button or having it prepackaged in more plastic that what you end up with, that parking your rear end in a church regularly to be filled with what you are told is how things work in “Heaven” prevents you from some “benevolent God” that would throw you into a lake of fire, I don’t know what else and I’m going to take a step back rather than highlighting the discrepancy and being labeled indecent, crazy and unrealistic because it seems that those with all of the money can do things that they aren’t supposed to, whether its by covering it up or conning people to believe it’s some dream that only money can buy, all hyped up by the moralism of the masses as to what’s possible, decent and reasonable or not!?
Maybe if people had a different idea of what making it is, and what happiness is, maybe if they dared to believe something that they think is impossible and get social points for denying, maybe if they wouldn’t look for a convenient excuse to deny it when someone is truly hurt, and needs a little love, a helping hand or just someone to listen to their story, as if there’s a loss to venture into being human!?
Sorry, but to read this whole analyses that heralds what mental health isn’t in order to capitalize on defining it as something it can’t be……
“Other studies show that capitalists and managers report better psychological well-being than workers and supervisors.”
“better psychological well-being”
(!?)
It might not just be capitalism, it might be the academia of defining “psychological well-being” so wonderfully mental that it doesn’t matter that it goes round in circles (capitalism has ruined mental health, because the capitalists have the best mental health), and thus passes and sells as being informative…
Sort of like who is best at believing a lie (the unproven biological theology regarding mental illness), they can determine who is mentally ill and who isn’t. And cause all of the chemical imbalance that’s prevalent with their treatment (what psychiatric drugs scientifically and statistically have proven to cause). And who is paranoid, non reality based and scared of being human?
Should have read” “Advertising from Capitalism is destroying out mental health.”
Advertising from Capitalism is destroying are mental health. It’s called “brain washing” I think, but what that has to do with water and perhaps tubs might only be what I explained prior in a post. When water was scarce everyone used the same tub of water, the baby was last, and by then the water could be so muddy it was conjectured the baby might be thrown out with it. This is how “clean” the “brain washing” is regarding…