Tuesday, November 29, 2022

Comments by Nijinsky

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  • You’re right Richard, it’s “wonderful,”

    Same as the drug companies have uncovered whole fields, terraces and valleys of otherwise undiscovered mental illnesses, thanks to their epidemic, also conjuring treatments for that and the other biological problems occurring; Bezos and Tesla (his name escapes me… oh yeah Musk, like that perfume) have uncovered whole swathes of dysfunctional behavior known as homelessness and other factions of such thanks to their economic trends. Soon the whole planet will become an asylum, the ones with enough $$$$$$ will take off to other planets https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/jeff-bezos-foresees-trillion-people-living-millions-space-colonies-here-ncna1006036 to echo the White flight of the 60s and 70s. JUST half a century later….. Whoever has enough $$$$$$ takes off to…..

    I took a walk through a patch of forest near by, noticed tents and improvised encampment attempts, and then all of the trash. Picked up two recyclables, and went to a nearby store where I mentioned needing two trucks to pick up all of the trash, and calling the local jail: “Could you have the convicts come over and pick up all of the trash in the forest? I know….. some of them will escape but the real criminals are in the military and the police killing people…..” didn’t even mention the court system or the jails, actually, or even asylums. Did mention how homeless people were dotted along a nearby hill up towards where the railroad runs, and how I recently ran into an Angel Amongst us (13.2), who I first thought was homeless. It was kind of funny, they couldn’t wake him up, not knowing that it’s like trying to move a mountain, which exists because of other rules than man with his desire to “change” things or control them. And how I couldn’t tell “whoever” was making an attempt at waking him up what that was, which I didn’t realize at the time, I simply had asked whether they couldn’t just leave him alone, as he was hurting no one, etc….. I couldn’t even show empathy towards the angel without receiving discriminatory evaluation that was quite off, let alone….

    Life is crazy, if you think it’s sane you truly aren’t paying attention….

  • I have taken what Thomas has shared, and tried to fill in explanations would anyone want to gain perspective that might be missing is one so inclined to continue reading. It may help them. I want to thank Thomas for sharing, and must also point out that any sarcasm used in these attempts at possible explanation are there to possibly allow for perspective that might occur, and are not a personal attack on anyone, nor are they to ridicule, they are an attempt at promoting perspective on issues and ideology that might otherwise be missing.

    The result of taking different statements and trying to explain the underlying generators of thought from here:

    “According to the new study, that gene may just be CDH2, should that gene mutate.

    CDH2 is a gene that encodes N-cadherin, which is responsible for helping in brain synapse activity and formation. A mutation in CDH2, however, alters this activity. This, in turn, impacts molecular pathways and dopamine levels in two specific brain structures: the ventral midbrain and the prefrontal cortex, both of which are involved in ADHD.

    Further studies have been initiated by the Birk team at BGU’s National Institute for Biotechnology in the Negev (NIBN).

    ADHD is complex and researchers are beginning to zero in on the areas of the brain most responsible for the condition. There is a consensus that the symptoms are real and they can and do cause great injury.”

    I will now proceed to take separate statements and proceed with possible modes of perspective.

    “According to the new study, that gene may just be CDH2, should that gene mutate.”

    This is:

    “According to the new study” How many prior studies failed need not be mentioned because we continue with the expression: “that gene may just be” the word “may” denoting potential, no matter how much we have failed in this genre of pursuit (it denotes how we have opened up our potential of insistent pursuit quite a bit, although we stick to what’s considered during these times scientific, for example one should not suggest that it might be whether one says a number of Saint Mary’s, does the rosary, recites incantations, repeats mantras or such even if such non-mainstream approaches could illicit more recovery; sacrificing goats or virgins remains completely not condoned when out of mainstream doctrines) but we adhere to mainstream biological ideology so we mention: “CDH2, should that gene mutate” and when that gene research doesn’t pan out, since up to this time we have tried numerous connections which sadly only remain connections we find compelling in our pursuit, it is likely and to be heralded that we will list that we have discovered our first possible link once more regarding another connection, should this well meant endeavor fail, because fortunately there is quite a prolific array of dna connections….

    “CDH2 is a gene that encodes N-cadherin, which is responsible for helping in brain synapse activity and formation. A mutation in CDH2, however, alters this activity. This, in turn, impacts molecular pathways and dopamine levels in two specific brain structures: the ventral midbrain and the prefrontal cortex, both of which are involved in ADHD.”

    That is:

    “CDH2 is a gene that encodes N-cadherin, which is responsible for helping in brain synapse activity and formation. A mutation in CDH2, however, alters this activity.” Although any mutation in any gene can effect the expression of said gene, and mutations can occur anywhere within the strands of DNA, one must list this when one in endeavoring to make headway is suspecting an activity that hasn’t been proven, this again denotes and illicits the necessary belief and comfort that science is involved, one must again not mention above listed non-mainstream beliefs, as we continue with “This, in turn, impacts molecular pathways and dopamine levels in two specific brain structures: the ventral midbrain and the prefrontal cortex, both of which are involved in ADHD.” This hasn’t been proven, how could it be when it is only suspected, but it promotes necessary belief in science and that we endeavor to follow it in making headway.

    “ADHD is complex and researchers are beginning to zero in on the areas of the brain most responsible for the condition. There is a consensus that the symptoms are real and they can and do cause great injury.”

    That is:

    “ADHD is complex and researchers are beginning to zero in on the areas of the brain most responsible for the condition.” Note the use of the expression “beginning to zero in,” and then how we make references to the brain in order to maintain scientific iedology, this in contrast to years past when the sanctity of reformed thinking thus deemed as sanity was determined regarding whether someone repeated said doctrines of the church (whether this made any sense to them or not, certainly would they question it rather than repeat it was questionable), we are talking about sanity not the outdated doctrine of whether one is demon possessed or not, this is the age of science and objective materialism, one must use appropriate terminology when making such statements as: “There is a consensus that the symptoms are real and they can and do cause great injury.” which is stated to emphasize that there is a problem, which we have detailed in that it “may be” because of something that goes along with a scientific approach.

    This all in order, we should get funding: governmental and good will where it is considered a tax write-off. So we have already stated:

    “Further studies have been initiated by the Birk team at BGU’s National Institute for Biotechnology in the Negev (NIBN).” This in contrast to the whole school of disturbed ones who can’t take the trouble to filter their expression into appropriate scientific modelling (this may take some education), and sadly complain when our so conscientious methods are not to their liking, as they disregard are certainty that although things may seem to fall apart and seem difficult, although we have been accused of causing an epidemic ( was the great depression an epidemic, or did people not know how to handle their money and blame it on the banks? ); and although they have given up on us, we deserve this funding to continue, for we herald science.

  • boans how are you doing? I’m sorry I read how you expressed feeling rather put out that your issues regarding how falsely you were labeled and put in the mental health system weren’t more acknowledged. So many of us have had this. I haven’t experienced anyone being committed without there being a plethora of lies (also even when someone puts themselves in voluntarily, they know how to exaggerate), and then there’s cases like yours where someone is spiked (or who is the guy that was on Charlie Rose and also actually advised families to turn over the furniture when they wanted a family member committed, to make it look like they were violent), added to that how often when the initial interim of “symptoms” being suppressed by psychiatric drugs and further problems occurring because of the drugs that then instead of acknowledging the problem because of the drugs it’s denied, whether this is spiking or not; or how much FDA approved stuff is spiking, actually, when said commodity makes too much money for the effects to be reported. And people are absolutely crazy when they think someone is “crazy,” how paranoid and often devious they respond. As if there’s such a danger they don’t even have to follow legal protocol, make up stuff, lie, and then beyond that if it was held to the letter asylums wouldn’t be legal, given the true science of the damage psychiatric drugs do to the brain, let alone statistically the result to society….

    I think that with the older Quaker asylums that Whitaker talks about in his books, where there was recovery before the bio-chemical model usurped the idea of asylums, those places helped, as do Healing Homes of Finland, Soteria House and others. Of course there are people that were helped by psychiatry and being committed to a “modern” asylum, but how much is that avoiding what the symptoms are expressing, and finding ways of finding stability by being assimilated? There’s a difference between dressing oneself up to be normal and sanity. The sad part is that people lose their spirit the way they have to dress themselves up just to not get points against them from the system.

    I’ve never been committed this incarnation, although “Nijinsky” who “died 1950 was, but my heart goes out to anyone who has. I think any of you who have been through that are amazing that you still survive. Please just do that! Survive, Enjoy life as much as you can, without anyone making your feel differently about it.

    Some of the responses here by people advocating for all of that, I simply freeze up, the level of fundamentalist fantasy going on. Indoctrinated publicity catch phrases used to dismiss scientific and statistical data. Science becomes scientism, and morality become moralism. When someone is such a soldier to help others that in supposedly doing so they need to ignore what the true effects are……

    One has to deal with machinery of thought in a system telling you how to think, machinery that’s not working in order to not be abused more, but you can’t point out what’s wrong with the machinery!?

    Who is the doctor and who is the healer? The patient or…..

  • “job job” When you give someone a drug that causes the behavior that you label as a disease and someone points out that what YOU label as a disease comes from the drug then because they point out cause and effect they denied that the disease exists? Are you interested in recovery or just have the right to labeling people as being diseased? However things are “labeled.”

    “job job,” you didn’t know that drugs could and have caused the very condition labeled as OCD? Do you care to be honest enough about caring that what you label as a disease goes away when those medications are stopped? You labeled it a disease, you say drugs heal it, but when it’s clear drugs cause it and its pointed out clearly with scientific evidence regarding how said drugs effect the brain, then what!? Do you care about healing or just that you have the right and the ability to call it a disease, and when someone points out a solution that doesn’t support your method, suddenly there’s something wrong because you can say they’re not calling it a disease.

    And psychiatric drugs correlate with an extreme spike in the occurrence of the diseases, does this mean that anyone pointing this out is saying that those aren’t diseases when alternative method don’t correlate with the spike?

    Steve clearly pointed out the correlation between behaviors and observation. You instead label something as a disease in order to create such concern and/or alarm that you can tack on treatments and ignore statistically the results.

    You stated this, earlier from here https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/11/growing-good-mental-health-choice-theory/#comment-203002: “Millions find relief from terrible suffering due to the care of these doctors and the drugs developed by the pharmaceutical industry. As Nathan says, there’s risk in everything. Discuss those tormented souls who perished under the best efforts of therapists who refused drug treatment. Why not mention them, Robert? ”

    Statistically the drug companies method correlates with a spike in the disease, if it’s proven that drugs can cause OCD are YOU going to acknowledge the source!?

    And then this statement: “Discuss those tormented souls who perished under the best efforts of therapists who refused drug treatment. Why not mention them, Robert?” When drug treatments work for some people, but statistically have caused more of the problem you think you can decide that souls who perished receiving no drug treatment would have fared better. Then you mention therapists who supposedly refused drug treatment. What’s true is that anyone has the choice to take drug treatment or not. But that’s not the case for people who do not want a drug treatment, if you are going to talk about what’s refused and what isn’t. That could be the case that drugs could help someone, but there’s no correlation or proof there that the reason they suffered or perished is because they weren’t given drug treatments, in fact statistically it’s the opposite. There’s also the spike in mass shootings while anti-depressants have been forced to have the warning label stating they can cause such behavior. But that only occurred after it was going on for years, the drug companies suppressed that.

    Is it OK that anyone points out cause and effect there, or are they then not calling it a disease, because anywhere it occurred without drugs means drugs are the answer, although the drugs actually correlate statistically with more of the problem!?

    And the drug companies with all of their clout, money advertising abilities, there’s question regarding the finances of this site because it has a fraction of 1% of such finances? So that’s also suspect, apparently. From you: “Why not mention the profits you make from your books? Your speaking engagements, from this your subsidized advertising resource, funded by many who can’t afford it. Oh no! Not you. No trace of of anything impure about you.”

    Whitaker responded really clearly to that https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/11/growing-good-mental-health-choice-theory/#comment-203121 so how much are you earning a year “job job?”

  • When bankers bankrupt a country, or an Industry creates more of the problem it says it’s eradicating with its treatment; and yet an innocent old lady with a house full of stuff but hurting no one, and also has accumulated cats, she then has OCD!?

    Where is the problem, and again, if you are going to look for a solution, you might try to avoid the treatment correlating in the spike, either that or you might understand the lady with the cats better (possibly)…… if you ever get so far as to be “OCD,” in the sense that you understand the lady, who really in comparison is hurting no one…..

    And then we have the bankers to understand, if you could give us any insight, that would be helpful. Truly…. No joke……Any insight at all might be helpful…..

  • It also doesn’t say anything, if there’s consistent correlation. Which there isn’t here. If you hurt yourself and have a scar, and this is consistent, that doesn’t mean that the scar is a chemical imbalance, not even when the scar hurts. To alleviate the pain (that way you can repeat what caused the scar, possible, and blame it on the scar), this does what?

    Your abuser isn’t hurting you
    Thou shalt not be sad

  • Tom Shapiro: When you had your problems with your ankle, and the doctor didn’t fix it, did he tell you that the reason your ankle didn’t get better was because you were non compliant to treatment, even when you noticed it wasn’t getting better? Because that IS the case with MANY people who have had to deal with a psychiatrist and their chemical imbalance theories. Further more, in psychiatry if you don’t want any more treatment, and you have told them that it’s getting worse, they can force you on more, and say that the reason the problem is getting worse is that you need more treatment. Did this happen with your ankle? Were you forced on more of the treatment that you say botched your ankle so badly you couldn’t play pro football, and not allowed any other choice? I’m just mentioning choice also, not whether you chose to continue with whatever treatment. Were you arrested from your home and imprisoned in a hospital when you showed signs that the treatment didn’t work, after having gotten away from it? Was this continued even when it disabled your life, even when you weren’t able to function at work, even when multiple other medical issues started cropping up that scientific data shows is from the treatment? And when you tried to point out with clear evidence that statistically the treatment you were forced on correlates with an extreme spike in the problem, were you told that you were a danger to yourself or others because you were non compliant with treatment? Because that is the case with many people who have been forced on psychiatric treatment (read Whitaker’s books, and others such as Moncrieff).

    What YOU are saying is that people who actually feel they should have the right to say no, this isn’t working; or I’m interested in other treatments that correlate (read Whitaker’s works) with more recovery: you are saying that those people are speaking against doctors, and insult you because why?

    You speak of people doing well because of psychiatry. I’m not aware that they aren’t allowed to tell their story in mainstream media. Do you think this site is mainstream media? Is there something wrong with a group of people who are doing well because they got away from psychiatry and its controls on their life who have the temerity to point out how when they stopped doing what psychiatry said was necessary they could function again? Is there something wrong with the fact that when they got away from controls psychiatry wanted on their life that they could function again? How is that insulting to you for them to tell their story? This is insulting to you because they survived, have a life, and want to speak freely how that happened?

    If there’s clear statistical evidence that other methods work, or simply that the one that’s being forced on anyone isn’t, people advocating for the right to make their own choice are insulting you? And why is this? Because you lost your ability to play pro football because of a doctor but didn’t lose faith in the medical profession?

    Whitaker doesn’t at all speak against people that say they have been helped by psychiatry. He doesn’t do what you are doing, and say that when they tell their story they are speaking against the clear evidence he puts forth regarding those that haven’t been helped by psychiatry, and who aren’t allowed to tell their story.

  • Before expenses paid, and without scientific or statistical data beyond market value publicity:

    Pharmaceutical sales representative salary https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/pharmaceutical-sales-representative/salary/

    Psychiatrist Salary in the United States https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/psychiatrist-salary

    CEO Salaries for the Top 20 Pharma Companies by Market Cap https://www.biospace.com/article/ceo-salaries-for-the-top-pharma-companies-by-market-cap/

  • No kidding. I think that the same goes when a famous person says they like a certain drug, or make out it’s part of their “ambiance” or what makes them so wonderful etc…..

    You could probably do the same study, and have different people recommend certain drugs (regardless of their efficacy) compared to just a “nobody,” and see the same difference, or how when a cheaply made commodity from a sweat shop can sell for next to nothing at any of the stores with dollar attached (family dollar, dollar tree, is there a dollar bazaar store?), but when Kim Kardashian or Suzanne Summers has their name on it then how much more can it be sold for because of the added celebrity varnish-image-aura?

  • Here is a “time warp” or portal I was talking about. It’s maybe just an example of how one can find resolve simply with art. Beyond time and measure. I was a bit distressed for several reasons this weekend, and beyond that Thursday something spiritual happened that again leaves me in a place that would I talk about it, which I feel impelled to do, I could be seen as “crazy,” of just people’s programming kicks in and I feel their resistance, but then Friday I had a therapy session, and to have something to talk about also, I played with part of this concerto, which I mentioned already. This is that portal: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mTa4hubM2dBBXBE1346NwnA9cyU8BsAv/view?usp=sharing Also that concerto was written when Mozart was 21, actually, not 17…..

  • Topher, I thought the same things before reading the article. And then this sentence: “After eligibility requirements were met, the participants were interviewed by a study clinician at one of the three hospitals on the East Coast of the United States.”
    (!?) I’m not under the impression that clinicians from hospitals regarding how they evaluate anxiety is helping one way or the other, other than it seems to be more of a problem. How much are they causing paranoia regarding anxiety, and anyone wanting to dowse what otherwise might function to point out stuff that’s uncomfortable to the status quote, they get points for then “not” being anxious? What is going on when people want to dowse anxiety rather than feel it to see why it’s there, and how much is simply pushing it away the problem that causes the discomfort rather than the anxiety itself? What does this say regarding the results of these interviews? Is this the same as people deciding you’re going to Heaven if you park yourself in church every so often, or repeat said doctrines? The ones going to church show signs they will go to “Heaven” because they are less anxious about it? They get above a 4. It’s not listed how they determine what anxiety above 4 is. What does that have to do with deadened feelings or senses to what’s going on that might cause needed anxiety so one is aware of it? Or does mindfulness also cause in the end serotonin sluggishness like anti-depressants have been proven to? Or the fluctuating from too much to not enough within a period of initiation of the drug, and in the end less serotonin, which then again increases exponentially would the drug be stopped? If you test a bunch of people regarding their reaction when an alarm goes off, and there’s a group that really just HATE the alarm, would giving those people ear muffs have proven that they reduce anxiety, and you can just ignore WHY the alarm went off? And having hospital personal make these evaluations regarding the efficacy of the ears muffs it this legitimate science?

    And as Steve mentioned one of the things regarded as reducing “anxiety” has a few more side effects than ear muffs?

    And will that relieve the “anxiety” of the hospital personal to know these side effects are treatable (or rather effects, I don’t know whether an anti-anxiety drug causing “psychosis” or “bipolar” is really just a side effect or basically an effect) where as mindfulness, if it’s liked might lure people away from medical treatment and thus something leaning towards alternatives is seen as indifference rather than a lessening of anxiety…..

    I might be over-interpreting and exaggerating a bit…..

    Maybe I should try some mindfulness to relieve that…..

  • Kate L I’m sorry if I confused you, because I notice now that I said I was answering your question, but really was responding to Nancy. I had gotten your names confused. And sorry I hadn’t even read your posts in this thread, although I have in others and completely empathize with what you have to go through with this horrible diagnosis. It can be like the other diagnosis, mean spirited criticism or down right hate speech. Kate, I wish I could hug you, be there for you every day so you didn’t feel abandoned in expressing that you’re human, and this [email protected]#[email protected](*)T goes on regarding the mental health system. We are supposed to be diseased, but what I’ve noticed with all my friends in the mental health system, the ones I spent time with, who have been disenfranchised and disabled is that they don’t judge you for all your “weird” supposedly dysfunctional behavior, and the interactions instead are human. I think it maybe even becomes dangerous do I think I need friends who are “functional,” because really this society isn’t. We aren’t little androids walking around programmed by society giving us rewards when we follow the patterns of you are a good boy or girl and deserve to walk around in the machinery of image arrogance that you have been assimilated and there’s something wrong with those who haven’t. Is not being assimilated really a loss? Is it a loss to let go of wanting such “functional” friends or such a life? Here’s something, years ago, I composed and performed, I was on facebook at that time (am again, but have taken a break in between) and a group of us within the alternative movement regarding mental health practice were trying to help a girl with BPD, and I found this music playing through my mind, consequently, and this piece came of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxyjGyzfFGY

  • And seriously Nancy what Same was maybe trying to say. With emotions you touch into a whole other world, a world that one might even argue remains intangible to another part of the self wanting to define things, and wanting to have answers, and wanting to be in control.

    I’m a musician-artist, have written a few novels, even indulged in studying nutrition to such a degree I could contradict your statement that we know how to take care of our teeth. You’ve also contradicted it yourself below, so we’re in the same ball park, and you were just using that as an example regarding where effort is put. Adding to what you stated, I don’t know why it isn’t basic care for one’s teeth to know about phytic acid, and how it affects the health of teeth, as well as that of your guts. What Weston A. Price discovered in his investigations of indigenous cultures.

    Anyhow, past that digression, emotions are things that in art defy logic in a way, and what a society thinks gives form to it. And in music for example, what’s called Jazz theory has a resonance with the overtone series that allows just a bit more room for emotions than traditional Western theory. And it’s the “poor” black slaves who started such science, actually. It’s like the conservatories of the planet still have to catch up. I just yesterday, before my “therapy” session was playing around with a melody that comes out in a Mozart Cadenza to a concerto he wrote when he was 17. But in transposing it to play around with it I found I was giving it that resonance. Harmonizing it so it resonated with the overtone series just a bit more (Western harmony does this but not as exactly). I first just thought that would make a nice song, and have a beginning for that. But I was just laying in the bath retransposing it to where it is in the cadenza, that whole beginning and it fits perfectly in the cadenza, first the more scientific resonant, and then the same melody back into the custom of the time then. I’ve actually written cadenza’s for a couple of Mozart concertos and done that, but haven’t fit an extra place in the any of the ones in existence till now. It really just feels like a portal for angels amongst us, which I’ve encountered as told in Hebrews, also. It’s simply an incredible spiritual matrix, from another dimension, more germinal to how we create life, just by letting it happen. And art does that, all art forms, they open us up to how everything in life is beautiful, and it’s simply that feeling that became a melody, but it didn’t even have to be because something was consciously felt it simply gives room for that dimension where feelings do stuff our conscious mind would dismiss, for it perhaps remains intangible to it.

    I’m not saying you shouldn’t do what you do. To ask the magical questions, that’s just part of it. But there’s another gear, maybe. It’s like what I’ve experienced regarding angels amongst us, they just are there from a whole other matrix of interactions. Thinking you have control of that is sort of like thinking you can move a mountain. Now, some people might argue with me, but I don’t think if man with all of his machinery started deciding where mountains should be (or the oceans or forests, or plateaus, or what color the sky should be or whether fish should have fins or not) I don’t think they’d get it right. I think the mountain is going to be there for another reason that our mind deciding why it should, and that expands potential, maybe.

    That’s all, it’s just another gear. If I’m writing a piece of music I don’t usually have a connection with the emotions beforehand, it’s more giving room for the ability. It’s only once this happened that I can think of, or twice come to think now. There was a friend of Mozart, the one soft point in his last years (and this WASN’T his wife), a piano student. And I came upon someone who I thought was this friend, and I think it was when it dawned on me, and out of nowhere a friend of mine (a lady that was ALSO supposed to be “crazy” and this has happened with another “crazy” friend as well), she called me up because I wanted to ask her, which I had been thinking to do, whether she picked up that this was a soul connection, and she knew the color of his hair, and she had called with I think more than serendipity. Then I must have hung up the phone, and started hearing a melody in my mind and in working this melody out on the piano I sat there finding myself weeping so hard that my FACE hurt. Just WEEPING! And it was nothing perhaps but the music letting that out, nothing more, not even thinking about what it meant. It’s even like with trauma, to feel it and trust the Universe to heal it. Not judging others, not even trying to figure out what went wrong in the life of the person who could be listed as the abuser, but simply feeling it, and trusting the Universe. Perhaps what Lao-Tzu called non-attachment.

    I wanted to say it’s like a time warp at first (but I was told I would loose you, who ever is trying to figure out what I’m going on about), like in the cadenza phrase I added from this time, to the concerto that when I talked with Mozart’s mother through a medium and mentioned it she said she remembered me playing it, and it was like a dream. Can spirits dream, what is the unconscious, can they manifest in our dimension say as why might in their while we dream?

    That’s “Crazy” but maybe emotions and the sub or unconscious have that connection with the Universe, and can resonate with stuff we would think is impossible did we decided we knew what they feelings were for.

  • Kate, in response to your question. I have had to recently take a step with such feelings, also with anger, that certain situations, when they make me feel that way, that there’s no loss in simply staying away from them. This actually regarding a rather fundamentalist approach that I’m causing those feelings not the situation. But this way if I see the situation as causing the feelings, then I end up not seeing the situation as causing the feelings, because I stay away from it. A different brand of forgiveness than staying in the situation. Life itself when you take yourself out of danger, the enjoyment of it teaches forgiveness. That’s also how it’s designed I think and why we have such amazing things to enjoy. Even the slightest thing that we might overlook thinking we have to have some fight that has to be won or it’s necessary for us to label ourselves as victim and see ourselves as hurt. But then there’s the other side of that as well, if you acknowledge that then maybe you allow yourself to see that you can and want to get out of such a situation. the mind also disassociates for such reasons. And you have the whole array of stuff as in multiple personalities and other escapes that can be seen as diseases. But forgiving and getting out of a situation are the same and go along with seeing you’re responsible for how you feel. And you give room for the change that can take place on “both” sides. There’s also the other side of it, when I read your remarks towards jobjob and the situations you have encountered, what people have had to deal with that makes me want to cry. My cheeks get pushed down and start puffing out, my eyes water. Then I might have a different reaction, and try to stick up for such people. (this is just a quick response)

  • Job job: Your whole argument for the very careful meticulous research Robert Whittaker has done, research whose integrity has been widely honored and even if it hadn’t stands for the total honesty there, your whole argument against it is that it’s a reach. And I’m sorry as much as you’re trying to defend your profession along with your handle as job job, that’s not really a valid debate point. What is this meant to depict that something is a reach? In any society where there is an accepted belief which is challenged, that challenge is going to seem as a reach. that in no way means that the challenge is not valid. Beyond that you can’t dismiss nor have you excused the mounting numbers of disability and complications with people who have acquired a chemical imbalanced from the medications, an imbalance that has not been proven to exist because of a disease although the medications have been proven to cause exactly that; and this parallels the current spike since the implementation of the chemical imbalance theory. The chemical imbalance theory creates exactly what it is said to cure and that is a chemical imbalance because of the medications while the disease itself has not been proven to be caused by chemical imbalance? In fact what is called a chemical imbalance from a biological disease that’s either blamed on environment or genetics or behavior the one instance that there’s concrete proof of any of that coming from a chemical imbalance is from the medications. That is not a reach that is irrational that is based on concrete statistics regarding the currents of what’s labeled us as mental illness as well as concrete science regarding the affect of the medications on the brain. Is ignoring all of that helping psychiatry and if that is the case how does that characterize psychiatry itself which Robert Whittaker is not doing, psychiatry itself is doing that, Robert Whitaker simply lists accurate scientific and statistical data. You also actually in your statements contradict your basic premise because you even have to admit that Robert Whitaker says that for some people the medications can have short-term effect and for some long-term effect. This you state after implying that he doesn’t care about all the people that it has helped. In the meantime the numbers of people who according to his well-grounded research have been hurt is multiple times greater. And I’m sorry again but the way you respond to Robert Whittaker and and imply that you know what is going on with him what his intentions are what is he is hiding when you have stated that you are a professional psychiatrist and thus it is within your means to use diagnosis to actually maintain what is going on with another person someone that could be extremely vulnerable also to everything that the medications could do to them what’s the iotrogenic problems but then there’s the simple fact of the interpretations and presumptions you make. I see that Robert Whitaker has very clearly explained that he gets no money from the speaking engagements and also how that sits with his books. And I can’t really speak for this site but I would assume that the reason it is not allowed for people on this site to be attacked with personal attacks which is what you just displayed against Robert Whittaker, but I can see that for people who have already been damaged by psychiatric treatment, who haven’t been allowed to state how the treatment is affecting them without being accused of being non-compliant, who have had treatment forced on them who have had to deal with interpretations on them that weren’t valid didn’t work for them made everything worse took away their personal freedoms and disabled their life, then yes I can see that for them to suffer further personal attacks could be highly detrimental and it is better that such behavior is not allowed towards the people here on this site. However Steve himself has stated that differences of opinion are allowed and you’re allowed to attack ideas but not people.

  • I guess I’m trying to elucidate this point you made. And the point is completely valid, because that means a client is part of the process, not that they have been labeled a certain way, and the mental health worker is the one deciding how they should change. It’s the clients place to decide what’s going on with them: “When working with a client, I believe that professionals should share their definition, ask clients to define it for themselves. Then together you work as a team for the same target and goal.”

    I have to state that in my experience, I knew I was having episodes in my life where I myself didn’t even understand the “psychosis.” The very desire to get that to stop in a way could get in the way of understanding. I never would have said that I saw it as a disease, and I needed to eradicate it, but still there was that extreme push to WANT it to stop, even to think that support from a therapist would get me to feel good about myself enough to get it to stop, but I had no idea really that I lacked insight into what I thought was interfering with my life, and that experience to gain insight only came from not judging it beyond what I already myself wasn’t doing. I wasn’t judging it already, but even analyzing it, even as trauma where it came from that didn’t give me insight into the the stuff of it that was involved with life itself completely, and that involved impossible things like a miracle healing, which became quite normal rather than impossible. I’m not saying you have to experience a miracle healing to understand psychosis at all, or even that you should be interested in that. That’s my experience, I’m just trying to share part of it. There were of course behaviors involved/ I didn’t know how much drinking too much coffee was contributing, and having stopped that I didn’t know that a dis-inhibiting spurt to just do things more impulsively that that also was an escape from what you might call left brained activity, the part of the mind maybe setting up these goals and targets. What actually surprised me, was that in the end how sane the “psychosis” actually was in areas incredibly sane. There was the dis-inhibition of being petty at times, buying in social values and exaggerating them to such a degree that one could in the end only see to get away from such desires. Akin to when something (a belief) starts to loosen and and before detaching it actually shows how warped it was or indoctrinated from peer pressure and insecurity taking on social norms or needing to be critical. But then there were also truly spiritual insights cloaked in symbolism, or thoughts that just popped into my mind out of nowhere that contained information regarding actual themes in life going on, actual germinal elements that with the help of a healer I could clearly see weren’t “crazy” at all. In fact they were from beyond time, or beyond linear time because they contained connections and a theme regarding someone I hadn’t run into yet, and this was involved with what might be called a physical miracle. Without “psychosis” that theme might not have acquired the freedom to express itself, even thought it wasn’t worked out and I expressed a few things that were symbolic, which I knew the next day were, but that was too late. I was already labeled as someone non-reality-based and could be a danger, even insinuating I could become violent, and a whole list of other things which were only paranoid suspicions of a social worker (thankfully only teaching yoga at a parks and recreation class and not in control of whether I was committed or not) the whole list of other things which weren’t going on at all, but were alarmist paranoid discriminatory suspicions akin to what school children make up about someone who is just “weird” all of that [the paranoia] was considered to be going on, just because I expressed some stuff that wasn’t understood. Label a person “psychotic” and you can add on a whole list of stuff. That’s of course quite traumatizing although I had seen this happen to so many of my friends. In fact to be REAL clear regarding how UNTRUE the whole evaluation of “symptoms” is. During me simply trying to take a yoga class a very clear voice told me to stay away from this “teacher” to not even ask questions after class (I really was interested in yoga) and to just go there and leave. I knew I wasn’t doing anything that should be of concern, I had had it enough how people react just because they think you are weird, and didn’t follow that advice. But it WAS a very clear voice, as clear as one you hear on the outside from sound waves in the air. And so when this whole alarmist paranoia was in process, this “yoga teacher-social worker” said to a judge: “I know” and she sat up in her chair bobbing her head a bit: “I know, he doesn’t hear voices, he see things that aren’t there, it’s non-reality-based” I didn’t say anything regarding hearing voices or not, in fact she pretty much PROVED that hearing voices can be enlightening, and give extremely accurate information, although she just used it to denote symptoms of a mental illness. And over the years (quite a few 13 or so) I have come to learn that what I tried to express that she called “non-reality-based” was involved with leading towards a physical healing, which might be called a miracle, gave insights into past lifetimes and themes going on with another I hadn’t even met yet that also touched in with a miracle energy and the place of no time, or another dimension where time comes together to give meaning to life, and our belief system could be the germinal elements bringing such experience together, rather than it’s on the outside. I’m not even saying that should be anyone else’s experience, it was MINE. And it’s valid. Other people could have any number of other experiences having nothing to do with mine in content, but still pointing out perspective they simply didn’t know their behavior contained in it. So I did finally shed the fear of what I didn’t know was going on, and what was labeled as a disease, this was that after simply finding a couple of good therapists also, and beyond that a healer lady who is a true healer (was tested in a hospital when she noticed she could facilitate healing, tested because she wanted to know if she truly could help these vulnerable people that might be looking for metaphysical healing, and if she didn’t test to be able to she wouldn’t have started healing, she then in a hospital in Japan with thermal imagery and electrodes attached to her skull to see what kind of brain activity was going on got a cancerous tumor to disappear in ten minutes. Her brain activity also was that the left side of her brain actually was inactive And also was tested other times with the same manner of results). The healer lady has a sanctuary in virtual space where she simply says one should meditate twice a day for 20 minutes or once for 40. After the initial period of a couple of months the physical healing I was looking for got so much better it wasn’t bothering me, and I had to laugh with joy at things I could do I wasn’t able to before that.

    That’s just ONE crazy things one can encounter. But trying not to be crazy rob you of an experience that will change your life. And life is meant to be LIVED. ALL OF IT! The stuff you loved and wanted to experience, and even the stuff you hated but impelled you into amazing things you didn’t know were there….. just because it went beyond your sanity filter…..

  • It’s a bit peculiar that mental health professionals come from more of an academic environment (usually), and I’m generalizing, but those who have been through what’s labeled as a “mental illness” or who have been labeled as lacking in Mental Health, or even themselves felt there was something wrong with them, would they have gained insight that doesn’t judge anymore responses that they didn’t understand, and gives them insight, this rather turns around the definitions of what’s Mentally Healthy or what isn’t.

    That’s quite predominant in many fields concerning lived experience and academics, but in the mental health field it’s quite predominant.

    It sounds like you really have helped people, that’s great, I’m sure you’ve helped people that otherwise might have been lost. Along with you there are those in the Mental Health field that have, you certainly state viewpoints that would help many if most people, although in general they may not be voiced at all. Just for someone to be able to state the medications aren’t working for them, and have a cogent response is quite progressive. But what if we are in a society that you get more points for being “immune” to the stuff that causes the symptoms of those that are labeled as not being mentally well, what if many of those symptoms if looked at differently come from people who simply can’t push away the feelings that something just isn’t right, that they are supposed to be happy with this society but it’s not working this way and they just can’t be happy anymore, what if fitting in and being “happy” just doesn’t work for them? And then you have the people that do know it’s not working for them, and instead of the trauma being acknowledged they are told their very human and vulnerable response to it is a disease?

    Just to point out how the very terms involving judging a person’s mental state can become contradictory. Of course a person who is a good therapist will recognize when a person simply is out of the norm, and give room for that, or that they have experienced legitimate stuff that needs attention, and when acknowledged gives another viewpoint regarding society or themselves, a viewpoint that’s actually needed in society, would it survive? When an organism evolves to adapt to its environment it isn’t the whole general population that mutates, it’s only a few and they allow the organism or species to survive through evolution. It seems that what’s called the mental health system so often judges the very people that might have the perspective to be able to bring in the change that’s necessary for the whole population to actually gain insight into what’s really going on, and what’s healthy and what isn’t. Being “happy” to have adapted to the mob that isn’t flexible to change because that would otherwise cause problems,are those feelings a sign of mental problems or are they actually the germinal elements of insights that are actually needed in the society?

    And it’s quite strange that so many people who have moved away from the standard mental health treatments, and who have gained such insight, that they aren’t acknowledged because they don’t promote the chemical imbalance theory. It’s in a way having people who have changed their diet from experience, changed their health or weight or any number of things, but if they aren’t going along with the academic teachings, they aren’t even considered as authorities that would help in mainstream nutritional counseling. When their problem is what encouraged them to look with open eyes, not censored by academics or accepted mainstream economic trends.

    And in mental health the “symptoms” used to define illness or not aren’t even concrete, there is no real test for them in the sense that those doing the diagnosing even agree on them. Someone having difficulty fitting into a society, and the consequent symptoms, isn’t really a disease, nor is it a comment just on them.

    Anyhow, thanks for your input Nancy, I just don’t want people to think they are “sick” because I know all of the extreme distress that goes with that, even trying to find a way to not feel that way, or behave that way, and in the end it was not judging the feelings or behaviors. Certainly when they were totally non violent. And then gaining insight in how I had reflexes towards escape I didn’t know existed, such as drinking too much coffee, and even when I stopped that it was the anxiety of slowing down my mind, simply out of insecurity; that stopped the “symptoms” but in reality even those “symptoms” allowed for a dis-inhibition where thoughts could come freely into my mind, or I wouldn’t judge things that I actually saw happen or experienced as impossible [and this is a WHOLE other conversation], and those thoughts were even in line with what might be called miracles (explained themes from other lifetimes when miracles happened, or one specific lifetime), and I experienced metaphysical things. Maybe I just had to allow my left brain to accept those things. If life has themes, and if it has meaning, that meaning and those themes express themselves in ways that are germinal elements for what we experience, not the other way around, and so such understanding remains a bit “non-reality-based” because it’s more objective than physical reality, which has remained the means used to judge what’s real and what isn’t. But thoughts are real. And art is real. And you might lose all of the symbolism going on with the emotions, and thoughts of the most severe “mental illnesses” such as “Schizophrenia,” would you call even those “symptoms” signs of a sick person. Maybe life has more mystery to it than to dismiss things not understood as non-reality-based? And I know from my own experiences that as soon as you go beyond certain boundaries of what’s considered reality based, or are just a bit different and weird, even actually interested in what it is to be human rather than what others think of you, that people are going to make up the most alarmist paranoia about you, and then think that that’s valid. That, along with fear of and alarmist judgements on the supposedly non-reality-based stuff that’s labeled as psychosis actually can be seen as very unhealthy mental behavior, but it’s pretty much standard for many mental health workers. “Psychosis” might be a way of escaping fitting in with a prevalent alarmist paranoia in society that’s considered “sane” or a consensual reality deportment, or a statistical based norm. Evolution hasn’t come from statistical based norms or consensual reality deportment, it comes from the few organisms that mutate away from that, I think.

  • My point actually was that a child that is going to end up diagnosed with a mental illness, although it may be completely true that being able to see how you’re in control of your own emotions, and that you can’t change the stuff around you, and as is stated here: “Choice Theory involves shifting from an external control psychology, the belief that our behavior (thoughts, feelings, actions and to a certain extent our physiology) is determined by outside forces, such as luck, circumstances and other people, to an internal control psychology, knowing we always have choices and understanding that we direct and are responsible for our choices and resulting consequences.” when you are dealing with people who never have been given the legroom to know how they feel, to start telling them they are responsible for what happens in their life this could be missing a whole step. I think you have to be able to know how you feel, I think you need to have the matrix of reflexes to engage with your own feelings before you can start knowing how to make decisions for yourself. Imagine telling a person who has never been allowed to express how they feel, that their very feelings of distress, anger, anxiety, sadness, all the rest, that they are there because of choices they’ve made, and that they are in control. In the meantime they may not even know why they feel that way, they may not have the reflexes to identify what it is that causes those feelings because every time they tried to express those feelings they were met with such a response that they disassociated, and so their whole response to begin with is to subconsciously push those feelings away to such an extent there’s no bridge to where they came from, or why they were there. What is it going to do to such a person to tell them they are in control of feelings, that depends on the choices they make, while that might yet again be another occurrence of those feelings being seen as something to avoid, to judge, to want to get rid of?

    Just as forgiveness in a complete form can be getting out of a situation and then not judging the people you needed to get away from, trusting the Universe, enjoying life rather than looking to get badges for staying in the situation and being “forgiving,” feelings that are “bad” or that you don’t want could simply be feelings that you need to allow, because they’re there for a reason. Having a formula to make someone happy and have good mental wellness when that becomes yet another example of “this feeling is there because of my own choices, it’s my fault etc.” when in reality someone may not even know why they feel that feeling, they have had to disassociate from making such connections their whole life, and telling them it’s their own choices that they have such feelings, when the real choices that they never have been allowed to make remain beyond their matrix of understanding, this could only cause more stress in their life. They don’t know why they feel that way, they don’t know why the feeling is there, they need to feel that feeling just to gain insight into what they have been disassociating from their whole life, and the feeling is once again analyzed in a way to isolate it as on object to want or not to want rather than it’s just allowed, which would make room for the perspective that’s needed.

    I’m sure that: Choice Theory Psychology has helped many people, and that it does wonderful things. But sometimes a feeling just has to be felt, and sometimes it’s better not to talk at all about good or bad mental wellness, because saying a person has bad mental wellness implies that they need to change or gives them a formula to change rather than being allowed to feel and express what’s just waiting to give them some insights that only such feelings can. Without looking to avoid them, to change them, to judge them as good or bad.

    You don’t push happiness away. Why would someone judge other feelings before knowing what they express?

  • Thank you Robert Whitaker for your careful patient response.

    There’s this paragraph:
    “Unlike Beam, Whitaker doesn’t clearly address how the quality of psychiatric care is proportional to the resources allocated to it, and how our society — not just psychiatry — has often chosen not to care for the mentally ill properly. The anti-psychiatry movement has unsuccessfully lobbied to outlaw involuntary treatment in any circumstance — even when schizophrenia impairs sufferers’ judgment to the point where they reject all help and their illness makes them a threat to themselves or (rarely) others.”

    I wonder if mentioning that the drug companies had to pay 6 billion dollars because of falsely advertising bipolar medications, hiding side effects, that this addresses the point already. Where does such money fit into where resources are allocated, when there’s even in the “review” talk of how ineffective those medications are. There’s no problem for a person with a diagnosis, and on disability to get 1000 dollars worth of psychiatric medications a month from their insurance, but for them to get the kind of help that’s more effective, or simply is effective, there’s hardly any money when it’s not related to the matrix of psychiatric medication; added to this such help is less costly than the medications which are more in collusion with the spike in mental illness than a lessening. Peaceful housing, activities that help bring comfort to the brain such as yoga, mindfulness training, art lessons, music lessons, acting lessons, resources to get in touch with nature, therapy that isn’t drug based, rehab facilities to help a person get off of psychiatric drugs that have caused a whole array of added on “medications” and diagnosis that logically could be seen to come from side effects of initial medications, and if there was integrity to honoring cause and effect such rehab facilities should at least be tried. And if they worked, which for many many people who have done it on their own it has shown to, then that again saves all of the 1000 dollars a month of supposedly necessary resources for the whole duration of their application (12,000 dollars a year) that the reviewer says aren’t being honored. So, in essence Robert Whitaker directly addresses exactly what the review says he doesn’t. What he doesn’t do is advocate for putting more money into what’s labeled as care while the implementation of such care correlates with the spike in the occurrence of the problem it is said to alleviate. Those are simple logical conclusions that when there is such a spike in mental illness which parallels the use of the chemical imbalance theory, that other methods should be tried, certainly if they are more cost effective. Instead you have the call for more resources allocated towards what statistically hasn’t panned out, while disqualifying funding resources that do correlate with recovery rather than the ideology of the unproven chemical imbalance theory.

  • I’m sorry, but I truly wonder whether such an analytical method truly helps regarding responses that are subconscious or unconscious responses. Feelings are subconscious, and trying by any means to first analyze them, then decide which ones are good and which ones are bad, and where they come from, this could be like taking a fish out of the water to see what it is, and you’ve killed the fish.

    Emotions are made to be felt, deciding this isn’t a good emotion, and I want it to go away, and using the left side of the brain to develop strategy, even when you’ve accomplished this you might be worse off. Because the natural intelligence that comes with the emotion when felt, intelligence that’s also so subtle you can’t fit it into the calculations of the conscious mind, it’s more intertwined with life than that. Simply not pushing an emotion away, but allowing it can get rid of the discomfort that came from pushing it away, not the emotion itself.

    I’ve had thoughts that would be labeled as schizophrenic happen, simple thoughts regarding themes in life that for one day bled into my conscious mind, like the kind of eidetic memory that say Tesla had. Visceral depictions of something inner, potential and symbolic of interactions that are impelling. The next day I realized that stuff I needed to be able to consciously relate to had superimposed in a way that could be seen as non-reality based, and even though I was COMPLETELY non-violent in contrast to those deciding I was some danger, it made no difference when I had the next day realized I was a bit off. Those thoughts then 13 years later pointed out so clearly things regarding life, and time, and what life is about, and how a miracle resonates with themes in life and touches upon others I hadn’t even met yet, that the whole idea that those thoughts needed to be seen as crazy, or stuff that comes from bad decisions on my part, or any of what “psychiatry” would come up with, such that even any analyses regarding whether they are reality based or not falls short.

    And I’m sorry again, but the example of what mentally healthy is you list above can be seen as quite non reality based to anyone who every day has to deal with what you have even listed as going on in the asylum, and then further more outside of the asylum, which might have forced them into one. I’ve never been committed to an asylum during the incarnation this body has had so far, I’ve never been forced on or taken psychiatric drugs, but yet EVERY DAY I have to deal with SEVERE discrimination because of alarmist paranoia in society regarding how my mind works, when my brain is HEALTHY. I can only imagine what it’s like for those whose civil liberties were taken away from them who are surrounded by those who only see them as broken, diseased and flawed when they have logical and understandable reactions to trauma in life that they either can’t or don’t know how to respond to or express. And then have to deal with the chemical imbalance the MEDICATIONS have caused in their brain disabling it from natural functions, the whole while being told the untruth that the meds are necessary to treat exactly what they are causing instead, and even if they know these truths aren’t allowed to express them because they’d be seen as non compliant to treatment and forced on more. Somehow somebody with such a life isn’t going to fit into your analyses of whether they are mentally healthy or not, as little as those in a war zone, suffering extreme poverty, living in an autocratic regime or worse. Maybe they just need someone to listen to them so that they feel it’s OK to even feel any emotion, let alone analyze it as good or bad, what to do this about or not? Maybe the emotions THEMSELVES when allowed and simply given some legroom have an intelligence all their own and then solutions are found, rather than they already are analyzed before they are even given the space to be felt.

    Emotions are meant to be felt. To once again be offered a whole school of how to make one “mentally well” can be like these drugs you say “People did experience temporary relief of their symptoms and upsets” when in reality you have to admit there was no true relief. And it’s simply discrimination in society in general. Women lack the ability to make rational decisions because they are emotional was even put forth as the reason they weren’t allowed to vote or have positions in government or religion. There’s this untrue concept that emotions are irrational. It’s simply wrong, and it could be that someone having an observably “happy” life with “emotional well being” in reality is maybe too sterile to feel the emotions of someone that’s actually experienced what’s going on in a society not quite as functional as its made out to be, and those emotions themselves when allowed have answers rather than deciding one is to find a means to turn them off, and then one is mentally healthy. Maybe such inhibiting isn’t mentally healthy, no matter how uncomfortable that may seem to the fantasy people have that they shouldn’t be feeling what they make strategies to avoid. No matter how disruptive or inappropriate it might seem to others when those emotions aren’t avoided and express themselves in whatever way is left for them to find an outlet.

    Emotions exist to be felt, that’s why they exist, that’s what their purpose is, and they involve all manner of natural instincts with perspective and insights that one isn’t going to find deciding how to censor which ones one should be feeling and which ones one shouldn’t.

  • Brenda Schaeffer, you leave no clear reference as to what you feel is a snide remark. I was simply depicting what brainwashing can do, and how that can be related to the advertising that goes on with Capitalism for profit. With the washing, stuff gets so covered up that one doesn’t know what one is throwing out.

    No, I don’t think that it is a snide remark when one is attempting to expose the push towards psychiatric treatment that forces drugs on people, when the drugs can be clearly pointed out with statistics to be interpreted to be in collusion with the spike in mass shootings and the spike in the occurrence of what is labeled as mental illnesses. That in contrast to the advertisements that they are needed to stop it. That was my simple depiction of brainwashing.

    Mind Freedom, an organization that also promotes non violent activism, they had a hunger strike asking the drug companies in 2003 for proof of their chemical imbalance theory, they couldn’t do that: https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/ and because of the confidentiality implied with medical records, the information regarding psychiatric drugs and mass shootings remains hidden, often. Despite that, anti-depressants have a warning label that they can cause homicidal and suicidal thoughts. I happen to out of nowhere have had a conversation with a man on a bus who stated that he had a foster care facility close to where the Columbine shootings happened, and both the boys from that shooting would come to his foster care facility, play pool, and told how they had been bullied in school, how they went to the principle who sent them to the sheriff, who sent them to the principle, and nothing was done. The ring leader of the two boys also told how his medications had been changed to Luvox, and how he had been having hateful thoughts towards everyone (his teachers, friends, family, girlfriend etc.) and the doctor had told him to just keep taking the medications. That was a few weeks before the shootings. And the truth regarding such collusion was bought out by the drug companies, when a legal case was brought out. When people here on this site, expose such truths, they are preventing mass shootings, not making snide remarks causing them. There is in fact a whole congregation of people on this site that would know better than to tell that boy to just keep on taking medications that were having such a response from him, and THAT could have PREVENTED the shootings.

    As Mind Freedom is a site promoting non violent resistance, I’ve been a protester against wars. I’ve also been in several situations where I could have been in extreme danger, but I knew how to de-escalate the situation, and still see the humanity in the other person. The very concept of understanding where another person is coming from, and certainly if they have legitimate trauma that needs to be acknowledged, rather than the symptoms of the expression of it turned off with psychiatric drugs (see the example I gave of the conversation on a bus), this has to go beyond: “this is the solution because that’s what we’re told.”

    It’s easy to throw out a catch phrase that is supposed to resonate with a whole matrix of assumptions (those not promoting psychiatric drugs are causing mass shootings) and see their attempt to describe how such brainwashing in advertising as a snide remark, but that in itself may be a sign of not allowing thought, and trying to cover up anything deviating from such assumptions. Because one is trying to categorize a whole matrix of medley of responses without looking at the context. Muddying the waters.

    There is then a Brenda Schaeffer who maintains that falling in love with the wrong person and not being able to let go is like a chemical imbalance, and you will have withdrawal symptoms etc. Science shows that psychiatric drugs also cause chemical imbalance rather than treating it, and then there’s the rest addiction, withdrawal, side effects etc. And there are many on this site that would not promote taking psychiatric drugs to treat a chemical imbalance because the resonant scientific data says it does the opposite, it causes one. Same as the example of the Columbine shootings, there’s quite a bit of evidence that it made things worse…..

    To label an attempt to expose that as snide behavior, this could mean that one would need to take account themselves what they have invested in as needing respect, being an authority, and….

    In regard to what causes mass shootings…….

  • Thanks for writing this. I wish I could see and read what your mother left behind, that you say you can’t make much sense out of. Having been in such places myself, I might be able to touch upon the symbolism, and sort of fill in the gaps between what her soul was trying to say and how much they allowed her brain to resonate with it. A lot of stuff that seems to lack sense can end up meaning a lot more than what we’ve been programmed to pass as having meaning. And I find that kind of stuff fascinating.

  • Replying to Brenda Schaefer: If you haven’t found material on this site that answers all your “questions” with no, you haven’t looked enough at the material here. And no, although you insinuate they [your questions] are rhetorical, there are clear answers pointing out that this site doesn’t oppress differing views as you maintain. If you are going to ask a question, then let it be a real one, out of curiosity.

  • Richard I agree here. Even a person who has become so “Capitalist” that they lack the ability to empathize with those whose lives have been pilled and ruined economically by what fills theirs coffers, but yet they have had to adapt to a society that perpetuates the ideology that trauma, fear, coercion, the ability to intimidate and control through threats called deterrence is what you have to adapt to and obey to survive. I’m NOT saying that is always how it works, nor that Communism might not give such freedom beyond such, I’m just trying to make a point not to say that there’s only way way that would work.

    From your statement here: “I don’t think you would be calling the socially unacceptable (and quite often self-defeating) behaviors that get labeled as “mental illness,” – “evil.”
    Are they not “adaptive” behaviors to a very stressful and often traumatic world?”

    You of course are referring to the fact that people who behave in a way that doesn’t give them points for fitting into the society that deems their behavior inappropriate, and in not adapting to that they are adapting to what lies beyond, because they can’t adapt to the confines of such a society and instead end up adapting to giving their wounds some space, some legroom, rather than being “functional.”

    I’m perhaps taking it one step further that people who can’t express at all their trauma, they adapt to the society that rewards them for going along with the rewards of authoritarianism (even though they have lost their humanity to such a degree they don’t know what they are compromising themselves to, and in contrast to those whose behavior is labeled “inappropriate” rather than authoritarian, they have further cut themselves out of of being able to truly express their trauma. Which goes to show further the importance to allow that, to allow things deemed inappropriate etc. or self defeating, when this gives space or legroom to trauma that needs to be expressed, and that space might open up those gravitating towards authoritarianism to also be able to express their trauma rather than “adapting” to what their fear tells them “survival” is…… that might change things more that anything else.

    When they have lost their soul and are trying to adapt out of fear.

    But you say that: “Capitalism by its very nature AND design is built upon a hierarchical structure of unequal classes and inherent exploitation of one class over another.” One could argue that Communism does the same in ways, only rewarding those who go along with the program of what conceived of as being of good to the state. Capitalism might reward someone that does something completely against the beliefs of a society, would he be able to prove that it has value and convince others. It doesn’t have to first be approved of. And I’m NOT saying that Communism is built upon a hierarchical structure of unequal classes in contrast to Capitalism.

    And you state that: “The working classes are NEVER paid the full value of the labor they create. They often live in the barest of subsistence levels of survival, and ultimately are made to fight (and die for) wars of political and economic domination over other nations and peoples.”

    It seems to me that Europe, although much more socialist than the US, there are a handful of countries the working classes are better taken care of than other places regarding finances. But Europe still remains mostly Capitalistic, albeit it’s their socialist tendencies that take care that the workers in certain countries are better taken care of.
    So you can’t really generalize in such a fashion, although socialism one could clearly argue is the mitigating factor that makes for the change that the workers there are better taken care of.

    Socialism or Communism, where one to take the good from either or both might in the end boil down to the same thing, honoring potential.

    I don’t know what to call that, but it certainly would involve a person expressing their experience of life, their viewpoint, their thoughts, how they see things, their own innate insight, passions and instincts…..

  • In response to “Brenda Schaeffer” If you are going to accuse “someone” on this site of accusing parents of being the blame for their children’s behavior in class when they can’t control themselves, you haven’t stated who that person is.
    Further more, listing someone as anti-pharma again without stating what he has reported, this is labeling someone without backing it up.

    THAT is your brand of science?

    Such and such fixes a situation, anyone pointing out what contrary results are is either
    1) not helping anyone
    2) blocking anyone who argues against the evidence that of the ineffectiveness of the treatment
    3)only allowing that anti-whatever-is-supposed-to-be-fixing-the-problem, whether it does or not
    4)failing or lacking in funds to continue
    5) behaving in a fascist authoritarian way

    You also share precognition of whether Bob is going to continue underwriting this site, as if you know him personally or have other insights. Are there any other predictions you want to make while trying to ridicule the people here as not being able to help anyone? That isn’t the case at all. You only have to read what’s reported here. If people aren’t being helped by their “medications” and they can’t express that without being accused of being non compliant or a danger to themselves or others; when what they in reality are doing is giving themselves the space and information to find out what could help them beyond mainstream methods; when they might need to know whether getting away from a disabling agent would work for them, then YOU aren’t going to find out if it does or not while accusing those wanting to find evidence of whether a different method might work of the five above listed accusations. And those are just five. The same as people that keep their own lives contrary to what a dictator or authoritarian system would do do not start sharing what is effective for them when they can’t without such accusations and thus could be imprisoned as non conforming. This should answer the questions you bring up here regarding this site https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/11/capitalism-whats-destroying-collective-mental-health/#comment-202724 I don’t see that 225 to250 dollars per session supplies such freedom https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/brenda-schaeffer-minneapolis-mn/54111 nor having a whole website https://www.brendaschaeffer.com/ and books and retreats….. No that doesn’t secure safety for people to heal that might be threatened with the kind of accusations you’ve displayed.

    You can read here on this site numerous very clear analyses of what psychiatric medications can do that the drug companies don’t report, what the statistics are regarding recovery when they are involved, how their implementation corresponds with the current spike in mental illness. All from grounded scientific evidence. And then more scientific evidence pointing out that it’s not alleged that psychiatric medications cause chemical imbalance but it still remains only alleged that they treat them, in fact the drug companies have stopped looking to try to prove such allegations for the most part, and as yet haven’t supplied any conclusive evidence.

    Someone who reports this regarding the medications used for children that are deemed out of control, and how those medications could not be effective, and does this with scientific evidence (which Robert Whitaker’s books also supply) this is reporting that, that isn’t blaming anything on parents. In fact those two things are separate, if that is even what you are going on about. Since you make statements without referring to who they are about as well as accusations of blaming parents without how that was done, and then saying someone is anti-pharma without again stating what that person has said, and then implying you know how long this site is going to last, who is supporting it financially as well as. Then you go on about whether this site helps people, stating that: “They don’t know what to do for the severely depressed, the suicidal, the manic and schizophrenics who are desperately seeking a bit of relief from their torment,” while simply reading through the material on this site, the stories, would tell you the truth that this site does help many people. Beyond that there are many people who wouldn’t be allowed to express that what this site reports has helped them, because the mental health system could label them as non-compliant and force them on the very treatments that they got away from that weren’t helping them. That also you can read numerous reports of on this site, again regarding your question in another “post” regarding what’s authoritarian or fascist.

    No, simply reporting scientific evidence against drugs that cause chemical imbalance, are reported to do the opposite, that statistically have caused an increase in what they are said to heal, and also are highly addictive with all the problems there as well: withdrawal symptoms and side effects — reporting that isn’t anti-pharm, that’s pointing out what kind of problems the pills could cause or have caused.

    Reporting evidence, also possibly of scientific material put out by the drug companies themselves but can logically be interpreted differently to be contrary to their claims, this wouldn’t be blaming anyone’s parents either (nor anything or anyone else you’re accusing such open mindedness of doing), but exposing what could end up not being helpful to these children, although it is sold and promoted as being helpful. When it’s said that the problem isn’t the parents because putting attention on something else fixes it when otherwise the parents might be blamed, when there’s problems pointed out with what “something else” really does when implemented as a mendicant to the situation this in no way is blaming the parents. As much as it avoids really looking at what “something else” is really doing for those invested in it, saying that blame is put on the parents because “something else” is questioned is not true. That something else would have to actually fix the problem.

    Yes medications are supposed to promote healing, but when they don’t do that, to report the scientific and statistical evidence behind their possible ineffectiveness isn’t some war on medications, it’s promoting the truth rather than handing someone a pill because they are made out to be healing tools, and then disregarding whether they do that or not.

    Reporting the scientific truth regarding psychiatric medications when they aren’t effective, or even against what they are said to accomplish, this isn’t anti-pharma, that’s pro-healing, pro-science and pro truth and intelligence. As well as reporting what might get in the way of brain health.

  • Of course, as soon as students start showing signs of natural responses to trauma, or God Forbid empathy for what others have to go through who aren’t so privileged to end up at Yale or other Ivy League Colleges…

    How dare they not be happy to be so privileged….

    Let alone what their schools teach regarding “mental health.”

  • Also Richard, you’re not defending Communism.

    Prohibiting humor while implying that Steve said or did something he didn’t isn’t defending this placard that shall not be tarnished.

    I think Steve really honors communism, although I can’t speak for him, but I don’t want to take it out of context put it on a pedestal and disable the goodness it can do.

    I also DO NOT think it’s fair to people such as Miles Horton https://www.aaihs.org/myles-horton-highlander-and-the-beloved-community/ who helped both Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks.

    I had friends that had to play at funerals in order to survive financially. And had this story of a lady who had were underarms botoxed because otherwise she might tarnish her wedding dress. And evidently she advertised this. I had to dwell on this for a moment, when a serious concern hit me: “What if she farts!?”

    It’s crude I know, but you gotta do what you gotta do…..

  • “So does your sarcastic humor {mocking human attempts at building a classless society} imply that you believe that a class based profit system FILLED with multiple forms of exploitation (including the medical model) is the very best that human beings are capable of?”

    One can replace “class based profit system” with numerous other phrases to make the same argument regarding “Communism.”

    1) social heirarchy
    2) doing things condoned by the state as being good for the all
    3) fitting the status quo of communism
    4) make up your own

    And by the way, “Capitalism” hasn’t necessarily supported the “medical model” because if the system supporting the “profits” of the drug companies were to continue in the way it is now headed statistically, we would end up with having a society full of so many people incapacitated with their “medications” that it wouldn’t be capable of producing what it would need to continue.

    Capitalism in essence is about potential, same as communism, that you get rewards by offering something that people find of value….. It’s just the rewards system is not seen as the same.

    If they aren’t really offering something that is of value for the society, regardless of the system, the society in the end falls apart.

    .

  • An alternative version to the last two paragraphs of my post:

    In all respect, but isn’t it implying class levels when you turn around what Steve is saying because it doesn’t fit your formula? I think you have to look at what a different outlook you’re not familiar with is saying. “Communism” and “Capitalism” (please note the quotation marks) are both routined in brainwashing, that anything not according to their formula is not the way to go about it. Steve’s sharing of a joke is a quite enlightened and effective way of going past such formulas. Anyone with perspective would see that the joke isn’t about either ideology when it’s actually honored, but regarding what comes of fundamentalism. And because it’s a joke, it needs no quotation marks. And that was the whole point of trying to bring balance into this discussion. Where the article basically says that people are mentally ill because of the very system which leaves those in charge of the system not having such “illnesses” according to the article. And this has nothing to do with them profiting off of such labels? I’m sure you could take the same formula and look at “Communist” places, and have pretty much the same results. But you might be still labeling and pushing away the same responses that actually can make change when just felt and not seen as a disease, nor pushed away as a disease.”Communists” were more overt in drugging those they found non compliant to their political ideology. “Capitalism” seems to be more covert, and this is yet another example of it. “YOU’RE making us sick, and thus WE are sick, and it’s YOUR fault,” I don’t necessarily find so empowering. In fact it’s defining a response that when NOT seen as a disease might ring in the natural instincts and intelligence that might change things…….

  • It’s quite amazing you would know whether Van Gogh and Winston Churchill would disagree, albeit that being a generic response from the mental health system that they can fix up people who fortunately are beyond their reach (listed as deceased), and statistically are helping to create more people who become deceased with their treatments, it still requires the real voice of those they say they are fixing up. You are free to have either one come and express their disagreement, and post this anywhere online.

    Further more, if the whole Royal family decided to get mental health treatment this still doesn’t mean that it’s working. Any list of people in the public eye, and behaving in a way to maintain their image, get points on corporate media for going along with what’s being promoted there, this is more expressive of the game theory going on that there’s loss if they don’t take mainstream methods that would give them points, because they loose their public image. It remains statistically true that the mental health system rather than decreasing mental illness has increased it, that their story of treating chemical imbalance has never been proven, that they even have pretty much given up on being able to prove it, and in the meantime true science says that they are causing chemical imbalance with their pharmacological treatments. In short that their medications cause chemical imbalance has been proven, it’s not alleged, in contrast to that they treat chemical imbalance. That is what the general public ends up being treated with or often forced to endure, and the result is an epidemic, not a lessening of the occurrence.

    The whole lifestyle of a group of people that if their lifestyle was transposed to the general public would cause impossible stress on the whole system of resources of this planet, they don’t represent the general public at all. Certainly not statistically, no matter how many points they get, or how good it makes them feel to get points from “the mental health system.”

    Lady Gaga by the way has said that although she ended up taking anti-depressants that that is one thing she wouldn’t recommend.

    And again, statistics themselves disagree with whether the current mainstream trends in mental health treatment are effective, hauling out a number of people who as a minority did feel they got help, whether they are famous or whether they are another part of the minority, this doesn’t change the statistics, it only points out more why the mental health system doesn’t work, and that they aren’t looking at the results in a realistic way regarding whether their methods are truly working. Instead they suppress other methods that are effective. No amount of drug company profits are going to change that.

  • “The very definition of a stateless and classless communist society is one DEVOID of ANY forms of human exploitation.”

    Wow, I haven’t quite read that in “communist” Russia’s ideology, but it sure fits. They don’t exploit human beings at all, they just ship those unworthy to Siberia, the rest have to comply, and do that willingly, finding the true soul of what it is to be human. Thus it is a stateless and classless society, those wanting to divide things up into states and classes end up in Siberia. Much more efficient that having them die on skid row.

    I could list a highly communist society that is completely classless and stateless (since “someone” said they haven’t ever existed and Steve “KNOWS” this), but I wouldn’t want to bother them given such “advertisement” they are supposed to fit into. Nor do I want to be labeled as unrealistic, since those people aren’t interested in being part of the media information which would do what it does to anything it can’t get its hands on, regardless of which “ideology” is running it. They have existed for at least 30,000 years. They also could be seen as capitalistic, since they honor potential, which is what capitalism is meant to be, that those that have something to offer to the whole are rewarded for it. So anyone could say the same regarding Capitalism, that it offers anyone who is truly willing to give to the whole of society gets rewarded, making it in that essence classless, since that potential is there for anyone. But then you have what a world believing trauma is a means of mind control turns into both theories. Both communism and capitalism are just possible tools, like when you build something. I think you need more than one tool. Fighting about which is the right one only prevents them working together. That society, which is classless and everyone is honored for who they are (the first things they hear when born is “we are with you on your journey, and that’s also the last things they hear) does exist without money, but it’s dying off, their own choice: they aren’t reproducing because there’s no room left for them.

    You can read the works of Marlo Morgan and see that they exist, which I’m not going to argue about, because I don’t need to, nor about the plethora of stuff that would be called impossible by both the noble “Communists” or “Capitalists,” or anyone else so full of knowing what’s possible that they know. Same as they know “mental illness” has to be a chemical imbalance because it “can’t” be anything else. Everything from how they stay healthy (knowledge of plant healing and energy modalities we either forsake or say it impossible) to their knowledge of the Universe, natural abilities we call miracles, and the very technology age old constructions around the planet we wouldn’t be able to build with our present technology they have no problem knowing is possible, stuff Tesla knew was possible and could explain quite a bit of but was suppressed by both ideologies. Aliens from other planets can visit them, which has happened at least once, without the aliens ending up in area 51 with the government trying to warp their technology to what it couldn’t even go round in circles in time resonating with, instead remaining intangible and unexploitable to the war industries. Always have and always will.

    Is THAT enough for “someone” to say I’m crazy, because THAT has never happened but THIS is the way it would work. So we can again say it’s crazy for anyone to point out maybe it works differently and has been around the whole time….

    And Richard YOU are the one trying to make out there are classes the way you try to intimidate Richard by turning what he said around and twisting it into such contortions it’s not recognizable as anything he said at all, as if such exploitation of ideology is a moral mask giving you the right to not actually see what someone said when it doesn’t fit your formula.

    It’s called brainwashing. “Communism” and “Capitalism” are quite routined in it.gure trying to chastise a child that it still can giggle rather than to take on this facade of “activisionism and TRUE insight.”

  • This whole article is still making me a bit hysterical.
    I really think it’s the “capitalists” or rather than branch of them that could as easily be called “socialists” when it involves how they gang together into guilds (Whitaker has co-written a book on this), and thus share the wealth amongst each other; it’s them that have coined with the DSM these diagnosis that are steered towards profits for the drug Industries, along with a suppression of dissent, and fear of not fitting in with fear based indoctrination at social, institutional and religious levels.

    WHY then does this article use the definitions coined by the capitalists in order to prove that capitalism causes such? Capitalism WANTS you to see it as a disease. WHAT if you simply felt it when you were “depressed” or “anxious” or any of the others!? WHAT if you felt it rather than pushing it away as a disease!? Pushing it away might be the major cause of the discomfort!? Would you not see it as something to push away, would you just feel it, you might find something money can’t buy you. I don’t think that’s caused by capitalism, and I don’t think it’s a disease….

  • The level of nonsense going on here:
    “Study finds first direct evidence of a link between low serotonin and depression”
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/05/study-finds-first-evidence-of-link-between-low-serotonin-levels-and-depression
    To begin with, if they are now finding the first direct link to the serotonin hypothesis, isn’t this after serotonin re-uptake inhibitors have been FDA approved for how many years? Even for a direct link (rather than proof, which is isn’t, it’s only listed as a “direct” perception from those looking for a link) it’s a bit late isn’t it?
    Beyond that those “medications” don’t increase serotonin, they do that for awhile in the beginning, then the brain stops producing as much (along with a host of other side effects) and you have less serotonin.
    Thus, if that link was direct, and true, then everyone who has been on such anti-depressants beyond the initial transition period needs to get off of them, or they will get depressed.

    What are they really saying, that actually they are lying to you: less than normal serotonin is good for you, and that is what prevents depression (along with more than normal), and anti-depressants do both, but they can’t tell you that. So in reality, you need to be lied to, and that will decrease your depression? It’s all about ideology, the more of a lie it is the more fantastic it seems, and it’s this fantastic quality that beats depression!

    You have to PURSUE happiness, if you weren’t being lied to, you would have found [attained] it and cease to pursue….

  • After my first try at having to follow how such pretense is put forth, I rather went to something else. Then read it again, and got through it, but along the line, maybe half way [hopefully] one does start to feel like something is weighing down on one, and this made me wonder to what degree and/or whether having to read yet another expose on this redundant corruption leads to depression. Anger, Confusion, ODD…..

    And yet, if you read it, and can follow it, you learn something you wouldn’t have if you believe depression, anger, confusion, ODD etc. are “diseases.”

    That is just SO NICE of these amazing authorities [Prof Oliver Howes, a consultant psychiatrist based at Imperial College and King’s College London, and a co-author] to teach us this. It may make you think that it’s making you sick having to decipher how they have you going round in circles, lead you into disarray or are simply lying to you, but in the end you’ll learn that you aren’t sick at all…..

    Apparently [Prof] Howes has a whole list of conclusions quite possibly as warped ready for deciphering. https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/oliver-howes Quite a smorgasborg: Treatment resistance to [schizophrenia] treatment that has to be listed as being based on hypothesis.

    “Direct evidence for a link,” this to make you know they aren’t working with ‘indirect” evidence when searching for a link that for how many years has never really turned up. That from the title of the Guardian article: “Study finds first direct evidence of a link between low serotonin and depression.”

    And the excellence of the research is highlighted by failing to list how many times already this “first direct evidence” has been found for yet again the “first” time. Evidently the second time they found this first direct link just wasn’t enough. And at what negative location did they start counting to consistently end up at positive one again? If they tried six times for the first to emerge, they started at negative five, you see….. then comes investigating what this link listed as direct really links up to…..

    This is really ground breaking though, as institutions go, I’m looking forward to seeing the building built to house their future investigations of yet another first direct evidence, it would be quite miraculous would they have enough legroom to work this out, and once the building is built, and they give up, which is quite reasonable would one conclude the eventually of such, given evidence, then there’s this empty building. Maybe all the homeless people that were supposed to be fixed by this groundbreaking cure yet to be found, maybe they can have a home, right there, and prove there are other ways.

  • I hadn’t but skimmed over this article, but I also find it a bit “funny” after calmly reading through it. If one would take it seriously, then one would think that those who are privileged by their lack of empathy, by their hard liner ideals that they deserve what they prevent others from getting, that pretentious materialistic debauchery (being spoiled rotten with superficial things) and the ability to deceive others is a sign of sanity; and those abused by all of that are the ones with “mental illnesses.”
    WHO is ADVERTISING what as some “mental health” problem listed as a “disease” based on said “symptoms!?” I really think it’s the one’s made out to be “sane.”

    “Other studies show that capitalists and managers report better psychological well-being than workers and supervisors.”

    Also, having tried TWICE to get it right, first I wrote in my first post here: “Advertising from capitalism is destroying are mental health,” tried to correct that as: “Advertising from Capitalism is destroying out mental health,” and it should be

    ADVERTISING FROM CAPITALISM IS DESTROYING OUR MENTAL HEALTH

    We’ve become consumers that are so addicted, we think that pills can create “mental health,” and when that creates instead an epidemic, we believe that needs to be forced on people. And those leading all of that onslaught are then heralded as “sane.” We’re brainwashed.

    Who exactly is forcing people to buy stuff at McDonald’s, Wallmarts, to load up on the latest fashions brought on by peer pressure and the fear of being different, to let an idea of convenience destroy their ability to think for themselves as long as it involves pressing a button or having it prepackaged in more plastic that what you end up with, that parking your rear end in a church regularly to be filled with what you are told is how things work in “Heaven” prevents you from some “benevolent God” that would throw you into a lake of fire, I don’t know what else and I’m going to take a step back rather than highlighting the discrepancy and being labeled indecent, crazy and unrealistic because it seems that those with all of the money can do things that they aren’t supposed to, whether its by covering it up or conning people to believe it’s some dream that only money can buy, all hyped up by the moralism of the masses as to what’s possible, decent and reasonable or not!?

    Maybe if people had a different idea of what making it is, and what happiness is, maybe if they dared to believe something that they think is impossible and get social points for denying, maybe if they wouldn’t look for a convenient excuse to deny it when someone is truly hurt, and needs a little love, a helping hand or just someone to listen to their story, as if there’s a loss to venture into being human!?

    Sorry, but to read this whole analyses that heralds what mental health isn’t in order to capitalize on defining it as something it can’t be……

    “Other studies show that capitalists and managers report better psychological well-being than workers and supervisors.”

    “better psychological well-being”

    (!?)

    It might not just be capitalism, it might be the academia of defining “psychological well-being” so wonderfully mental that it doesn’t matter that it goes round in circles (capitalism has ruined mental health, because the capitalists have the best mental health), and thus passes and sells as being informative…

    Sort of like who is best at believing a lie (the unproven biological theology regarding mental illness), they can determine who is mentally ill and who isn’t. And cause all of the chemical imbalance that’s prevalent with their treatment (what psychiatric drugs scientifically and statistically have proven to cause). And who is paranoid, non reality based and scared of being human?

  • Advertising from Capitalism is destroying are mental health. It’s called “brain washing” I think, but what that has to do with water and perhaps tubs might only be what I explained prior in a post. When water was scarce everyone used the same tub of water, the baby was last, and by then the water could be so muddy it was conjectured the baby might be thrown out with it. This is how “clean” the “brain washing” is regarding…

  • Social media is extremely predatory. And the amount of time young people spend pecking on their cell phones, and behind a computer screen already is physically a strain on their posture, and their neck, which I think can affect mental health. Then there are all of the myriad of other ways it can be distressing, and addictive. And the Internet in general uses volatility to get people involved, and the threads with all manner of vitriol can end up on the top of the feed. It can be quite shocking to actually read people’s thoughts online, regarding their need for dehumanizing someone or anyone in order to feel in power themselves, even safe, as if safety involves making up an enemy to constantly be fighting against.

    I found a healer that actually helped me with a miracle, and that was online. To be part of her sanctuary that sends energy is only 10 pounds a month, but around that, one finds a whole mob of healers and channels, and mediums and psychics charging thousands of dollars, and mostly working with image games knowing how to make a person feel they are being helped the same way the junk food industry, the drug companies, most Hollywood movies, and even many therapists know how to create an “atmosphere,” and con you into thinking it’s salvation.

    Thoughtmaybe.com has a whole tab for media, with all sorts of documentaries regarding these things: https://thoughtmaybe.com/topic/media/ also an advertising tab https://thoughtmaybe.com/topic/advertising/ and others tabs

    They actually test the outlay of computer screens, where the buttons are, which colors, everything you see on a webpage to see how to get people to click on where. They actually test this just to see how to play mind games with people. Lots of money goes into it. I noticed that both Facebook and Amazon make it difficult to find the logout button, and have other ways they try to distract you to get trigger happy. I really find it quite disturbing that a site can be called Amazon, and how that’s legal. Isn’t the Amazon [river] in Brazil? How is Amazon.com affecting the state of the real Amazon!? I don’t think the logos Amazon is helping to preserve the real Amazon. You ACTUALLY have this Internet site called “Amazon” and people say “Amazon” and WHAT do they think that word stands for?

    One nice thing online is buying used books. For around 3 or 4 dollars a piece, I can get incredibly beautiful old classics or modern writers with content, or books that actually inform you. And then there are sites like this one, and others that truly are informative.

    I left facebook in 2015, and only came back to it last year. I don’t know how long I’m staying this time, though…… not too long…..

  • Genevieve, I wonder whether most of the problem simply is that one isn’t supposed to feel suicidal. Simply wanting to give up on life is a very natural reaction to situations, that perhaps when one is given the place, and I mean a safe place, to actually talk about what makes them feel that way, that that’s what’s missing.

    I don’t see how labeling a natural reaction to a situation can be labeled a disease, when the situation isn’t acknowledged. Psychiatric drugs don’t treat chemical imbalances, they cause them disabling the brain, but even when a chemical imbalance is known, that doesn’t mean a “medication” is solving the problem when it could be being allowed to see what’s going on in one’s life that causes the stress to the body, that then again may depend on whether a person is allowed to relate and express to what’s going on with them that they aren’t encouraged to express. There was a really good teacher name Myles Horton https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/highlander-folk-school and in his school, or movement which included Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks people would simply sit in a circle and talk about their lives, and that way find the answers they were looking for, rather than trying to find answers, in itself. I think that’s the way right brain left brain works, that when you are free to express yourself, then the left side of the brain can find answers because it’s not stressed out so much about it. We are human being, we aren’t machines. Emotions have an intelligence all their own.

    But this seems to be the problem with the most of psychiatry, or rather truly is. Whether it’s the D word or the C word or whether S is for Schizophrenia and then ADHD or ODD or BP (which I don’t know whether it’s Bipolar or Borderline Personality although they would say it’s British Petroleum) or what they have or haven’t done with the rest of the alphabet, when there’s a backup regarding whether a person has ever been given a voice to relate what’s going on in their life, or even themselves is able to relate to it anymore, that isn’t solved by putting a plug on what’s backed up and needs to come out or putting a plug on what might give room for that expression. And yet that’s mainly what’s done because it causes too much trouble for those living in the consensual reality place pretending their society is perfect by ignoring the stuff others experience, that “consensual” reality in reality is more non reality based than…..

    Here’s a program about Utah Phillips, who knew and talks about Myles Horton, that Democracy had January 1, to honor Phillips death in 2008. https://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/1/placeholder_utah_phillips

  • Just a couple of quotes that I found depictive:

    “Through presenting the subjectivity of mental health professionals as objective scientific facts, conveying urgency and necessity for psychiatric intervention, and fusing with other scientific and medical disciplines to lend credibility to psychiatry, such discourse can lead to taking this medicalization of professional judgment for granted and devaluing the subjectivity of patients being assessed.”

    and

    “However, this interpretive element is not acknowledged in the textbook and positions the mental health nurse’s clinical judgment as coming from scientific expertise beyond questioning.They describe a process assumed to have significant reliability across nurse assessors where the nurse’s professional interpretation takes these reports of “subjective” data along with their own observations to compare against a set of pathological categories (e.g., the DSM) to formulate diagnoses that lead to interventions.”

    What’s the difference between this and schoolyard bullying? He’s weird, there’s something wrong with him, becomes the impetus to take action. In both cases it’s making people think they are doing something that needs to be done to keep society healthy. Both cases are based on social norms as well. And both cases statistically lead to a more dysfunctional society.

    The one difference may be that the behavior of people guided by mental health guidelines can be even more aggressive. The behavior isn’t just overlooked, as with schoolyard bullying, but it’s condoned, rewarded and promoted. And as far as I know schoolyard bullies don’t usually get paid for their behavior……

    How much empathy does it take for anyone to pay attention and see what the medicalized part of the mental health system really is doing to people? And how are they rewarded for ignoring it?

  • I don’t think that 60% do well with medications. I think that you need to look further into the true information regarding that, but Steve has stated a more scientific and unbiased statistic of 15%. And you can find that in numerous articulate unbiased evaluations. I think with reinterpretation the statistics with quite a few questionable angles might achieve 60%, but that would only be within the first few years, and then the statistics actually point out that everything gets worse: more relapsing, more side effect, more possible withdrawal symptoms, loss of life, more added on diagnosis, more disability; and you can logically add on more paranoia against what statistically is more likely to get better without medications. So in reality, given the spike in mental illness, including “depression,” if after the implement of medications, and given a few years of a person being on them, you start having a certain times more incidences of the “disease” the actual effect of the medications is to increase the amount of disease or diseases; added to the effect of more people being treated with a method that causes less recovery, if it increases the disease rather than recovery is the statistics properly put in the negative? Because there are THAT MANY people who have a disease that without “medications” would have gone away is what the studies and statistics show. If for the recovery of said amount of people, you have more than that said amount who have the disease that would have otherwise healed by itself, I think the statistics come out in the negative regarding who has recovery and who doesn’t.

    And your final statement “I’m not quite ready to denounce psychiatry as a whole and label it a sham – not when it has done wonders for my life. If you want to, that’s fine, just don’t think that you’re any more correct because you’re a “free thinker.” That belies a lot. When someone, or anyone puts forth concrete information why psychiatry should be put on the line about what the RESULTS are of its methods, that they actually put forth concrete grounded information that can be backed up with science, statistics and recovery results, this isn’t saying one is correct because they are a “free thinker,” that’s simply honoring the truth. This article also is a comment on psychiatry’s respond to criticism, it isn’t about denouncing it as a whole. That you like anti-depressants doesn’t not change the real statistics, nor does that make people pointing this out to be falsely labeling themselves free thinkers, they are pointing out the truth. There are numerous things that might make a person feel they are helpful, and objectively come out as working for them, but that doesn’t change the statistics regarding how that affects others, and that DOESN’T excuse hiding the truth, or lying, regarding what’s sham and what isn’t. You also don’t know what else would be available if what statistically correlates with causing more of the problem wasn’t blocking or suppressing so many other healing methods from being readily available, methods that statistically don’t correlate with a spike or an epidemic.

    There are also NUMEROUS things going on with anti-depressants from the beginning. The way that they were approved is highly questionable. When in numerous studies a more than considerable amount of the people in the control group had to leave the control group because of side effects, and this is NOT tallied up in the results; when in the non control group anyone getting better within the first couple of weeks is taken out of the tallying of results; when they also had to put people in the control group on another medications to deal with side effects and on top of that had to get people in the control group who already were on psychiatric medications which also points out that if they [those who already had been on psychiatric medications] were also in the non control group and thus were taken off of their medications that they would have withdrawal symptoms listed as psychiatric symptoms; when they had to do multiple studies and dismiss an incredible amount that didn’t have the results they were looking for;;; when they didn’t report properly withdrawal symptoms of those in the control group after the initial period….. All of that having to be going on to get the results they wanted starts to add up to something not being right. And it’s NOT a symptom of someone labeling themselves fraudulently as a “freethinker,” when they can see all of that and AREN’T going to ignore it.

    And then they were approved, and they still didn’t report the side effect or withdrawal symptoms, those often being siphoned into being interpreted as psychiatric symptoms rather than drug effects, the occurrence of psychiatric diseases spiked, worse than that there already were people that committed suicide in the trials, but that wasn’t reported, and that CONTINUED to not be reported, or acknowledged when reported….

    And then because this was considered confidential medical information, the collusion with psychiatric drugs in incidents of homicidal and suicidal behavior and mass shootings wasn’t properly reported, nor to this day is. Although this was known from the beginning…..

    And instead of all of that being acknowledged, people are mislead into believing that what statistically caused more of the problem is how to respond to it.

    Enough free thought for you!?

  • “Here is an opportunity for neuroscientists to pause and reflect. Probably BDNF’s selective activation of TRKB belongs to the brain’s overall design (see ref 1). Would it be so smart, then, especially without an identified pathophysiology, to activate all types of plasticity across the whole brain? Would it be clever to erase a traumatic memory from the human hippocampus, as apparently we can do now in mice? Would that relieve depression, or would it engender a new source of misery: still depressed but unable to recall why? To get this right, neuroscientists should first ask: which are the most appropriate levels to intervene?”

    It is an amazingly well researched article, to the T!

    We can erase a traumatic memory from mice? I wonder where this proof comes from, added to that I agree that even if this were possible that it’s not a good idea because one might forget why one is depressed.

    When children are forced to behave a certain way, treated in a manner which by their parents is considered discipline, but in reality can be seen as trauma, I think they also fail to remember the trauma. People with multiple personalities have also quite sophisticated ways of putting memories beyond reach, but the memories still are there. In fact, this suppressing of traumatic memories, especially when the trauma was used as a mind control vehicle, this exhibits itself not only in various institutionalized settings (social groups, academic groups, religious groups etc.) but extends to whole countries or cultural groups that have been at war for generations because one was always taught to hate the enemy, hatred that was traumatized into children at a young age, and thus it’s never questioned but has become a reflex. Conflict is sustained rather than what would resolve it, and who profits from this?

    So, I really wonder what’s done to these mice to allegedly rid their hippocampus of traumatic memories. Although it’s only stated that “apparently” we can. Thus implied that it’s only an observed phenomenon and that something else might be going on. You can traumatize the person or the brain to not remember trauma, but you can do who knows what to accomplish a state where memory of the trauma is shown to not be there anymore, but what else has been lost, and where really has that memory gone?

    To study how to erase a memory of trauma, one can only question why one wants to erase that memory. Isn’t that also what a child molester does, use trauma to prevent a person from remembering the trauma? That’s also what’s reported to be going on in mind control experiments such as MK-ultra, experiments allegedly imported through project paperclip from Nazi Germany after WW2, so that the Russians wouldn’t get their hands on it. Create reflexes through trauma, and then use trauma to erase the memory of the trauma used to create reflexes, and retain the reflexes as mind control. B. F Skinner gone over to the dark side.

    How much of the populace of social workers, other medical professionals and psychiatrists have been brainwashed to have the reflex believing they are treating chemical imbalances, rather than creating them? How much is such an effect of what works to create “happiness” transposed to reflexes, associations and desires people have towards what kind of food to eat (whether it’s to feed their health or not), what to believe, what not to believe, what to wear (whether it’s functional or comfortable), etc. etc? And to sustain the reflexes, the belief in all of that “happiness” we have what’s outlined in the prior paragraph from what I already quoted at the beginning of this post: “Now it is reported that all three types of antidepressant—tricyclics, SSRIs, and ketamine—bind to TRKB, a receptor for the neuropeptide BDNF39. Binding facilitates the effect of endogenous BDNF, and this action is now hypothesized to be the mechanism of their action to elevate mood. BDNF localizes to both sides of synapses all over the brain and affects multiple forms of synaptic plasticity. The report acknowledges that “BDNF can trigger multiple and often contradictory functional consequences based on its mechanism of expression, site of release, and site of action”. Yet the report also notes a search for small molecules to selectively target TRKB.”

    And more…..

    It doesn’t work statistically, so what kind of “reflexes” is it supporting, in economic, social, scientific and belief (religious) trends that it’s market as if…… it does?

  • “When We are interpreted and translated to others, when you hold a Picasso up to Our eyes and argue it to be a mirror, We become volatile.” That’s the thing when you’re human. Other people scared of such a thing [being human] when judging you only see themselves. When you don’t follow their lead, don’t believe their lies, and when you still don’t “get it” after they go on obsessively, it’s not them that are paranoid or obsessive compulsive, And when none of it works, it’s not them that are non compliant [to reality], and when it ruins a whole generation of innocent people it’s still not them and their manners-methods-medicants-ideology and intentions that are a danger to themselves and others….

    If anyone wants a mirror, you can buy one at the store, they aren’t that expensive, and you don’t have to have gotten a degree in medicine where your branch of it teaches you to create exactly what you say you are healing (a broken brain)…. and you don’t have to be terrified of losing privileges of money, “objective” discriminatory rhetoric and an indoctrinated idea of sanity so off that you have to say you can heal all of the great artists throughout history that still heal the human soul, did then, will continue to; while you create an epidemic in need of the healing you can’t accomplish, but that they have, will and do……..

    We’re THAT sick! Give up on us, it’s worthless. We’ll NEVER get it! You’d be better off just leaving us alone….. really…….

    And Charles Dickens, And Beethoven, And Camille Claudel, And Virginia Woolf, And Emily Dickinson, And Van Gogh, And Mozart, And Shakespeare, And Schumann, And Munch, And Heine, And Friedrich… the whole LOT of us, including the rest you haven’t quit figured out how to diagnose, or just don’t “know” well enough yet….I know, it’s really difficult encountering people you know that there’s something wrong with, and you want to fix them so much, if they would just come to your office, but with us it’s really hopeless.

    Just GIVE UP! It’s worthless trying to fix us. Find something better to do!

    We are Sooooooooo sick. Just give UP!

  • The idiom throwing the baby out with the bathwater comes from the fact that water used to be less of the convenience it is today. So when there was a bath with water a whole list of people would take a bath, and the baby would be last. By that time the water could have become so muddy that one wouldn’t see the baby anymore, and throw it out. So, maybe one should question WHO exactly has muddied the waters to such an extent that…..

    “We’ve been lying to you for years so you don’t know what’s going on, but……”

  • EXCUSE ME! “Because the disorder is trivialized by people who claim they have OCD when they experience a fleeting moment of discomfort after not washing their hands or seeing their clothes on the floor, the testimonies of people who experience the full range and spectrum of OCD symptoms are delegitimized—they experience testimonial injustice.”

    This would actually be SO AMAZING if they actually respected, acknowledged, and had given, would give, or will be giving the proper platform to the people who had experienced OCD, healed from it, but that isn’t the case at all. All of their circular rhetoric is to say that they are treating people, when statistically they are causing more of the problem. If you are healing the problem, show us your results, which when you can’t say we are denying pathology.

    You haven’t had OCD, and you just think you have from mild symptoms, so let us who haven’t had it at all, and are going to dismiss anyone who has themselves healed from it from having a platform when they aren’t following our protocol (which is what the majority of those healed aren’t doing, that is following the mainstream protocol)….

    And I think for the most part de-pathologizing isn’t about denying someone has a problem, it’s taking away the label that makes them vulnerable to take, or be forced on, or brainwashed to think they need treatment that statistically has caused more of the problem.

    And WHO is OCD!?

  • Sadly, this probably hardly touches the surface of the kind of abuse that can go on in these places, also in orphanages, at “Christian” churches etc. https://archive.org/details/brice-taylor-thanks-for-the-memories-with-pictures-large-font

    All governments on this planet quake people that are trained in how to traumatize others, which is made out to be necessary for population control, and then the other institutions: the economic system (you only get paid if you obey), the educational system (you only pass if you obey), of course the penal system and military, and religions teaching about those not conforming going to the lake of fire, corporate media with its image game, and on from there. People don’t even relate to each other, they relate to what they can get out of following set rules, accepted modes of behavior, fashions, ideology that’s mental enough in construction you can believe it whether it really is true or not, and this is what people see every day out in “society.”

    Of course you are going to have a subset of people mesmerized with what you get out of traumatizing others. In fact “justice” seems to equate with the right to traumatize others.

    That doesn’t work, you don’t feed fire with fire to get it to stop.

  • This seems nothing but a brainwashing tactic. “The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports that eight per cent of children aged three to 17 years old suffers from an anxiety disorder. And a report from Yale University indicates around 3 per cent of under-18s has depression. Rates are believed to have surged during the pandemic, where disruptions to everyday life and limited social interactions harmed many younger people. ‘The Task Force cares deeply about the mental health of all children and adolescents,’ said Dr Lori Pbert, a psychologist from the University of Massachusetts.”

    How many of the doctors are brainwashed to think that depression or anxiety are signs of a brain disease, when the “medications” they’d prescribe have been proven to CAUSE brain disease according to scientific testing, while neither depression or anxiety have been proven to.
    Dumbing down the population to make them commodities for the pharm industry, while leaving them disabled enough to be more easily brainwashed….. this is “The Task Force cares deeply about the mental health of all children and adolescents,’ said Dr Lori Pbert, a psychologist from the University of Massachusett”

  • Given the cost of institutionalizing people in an asylum, if that money went to actually building housing it would help a lot more people than those who end up being given a chemical imbalance or having one maintained that wasn’t there before treatment. But that’s an old story the same as people willing to sacrifice a goat a virgin or their first born son to show their compliance with brainwashing. This fantasy that you just have to go along with doing what you’re told… And one can ignore that psychiatric drugs cause chemical imbalance rather than treating it, as well as ignore that there’s a housing crisis for lack of affordable housing. And who is showing signs of being non-reality-based?

  • I don’t even know what to say, reading all of this and the two linked articles one after the other. In fact, I want to scream out, after the story after story after story going on, and incident after incident, and one coercive covert predatory trap after the other… at WHAT point does it boil down to: Do NOT put someone in a position that the “mental health system” is in charge of bettering their life! And all the other redundancies of assumption, process and “how things go.” The whole mental health system has become ANOTHER consumption, only this is forced on people, that in a consumer oriented society. It goes along with how you can’t have Christmas without sugar and more junk food, you can’t have a church get together without coffee and cookies, you can’t have a sorority without drinking alcohol, you can’t be a cool teenager without doing drugs, and then you get anti-depressants to help social shyness, grieving, any change in life that makes you feel ill at ease (what the cookies, alcohol, cigarettes, street drugs and social conformity didn’t work!? Going to the mall didn’t either!? Church!? Sports!? Joining a Sorority or Fraternity? A Street Gang? A Political GANG?)…..

    I clearly don’t know where to go with this because it’s SIMPLY not true, that the mental health system is some easy way to get that needed extra something to make the way clear towards “happiness,” like the rest of addictions that ARE NOT acknowledged as such, instead made out to be a loss when you don’t indulge in grabbing for it, taking the ride to see what’s on the shelf, to do SOMETHING even before you’re non attached to consumerism enough to know what you are getting into….. You’re getting into the realm of EXTREME resentments to anyone not wanting to stay in the box. It isn’t just consumerism anymore, it’s ENFORCED consumerism.

    Andrew was absolutely right when he said regarding the psychiatrist he was forced to endure: “He clearly did not like him. Andrew would get so frustrated at the sessions, because he said nothing that comes out of my mouth can be right. If he would relate an accomplishment at work, he was narcissistic. If he would talk about something he was writing that he thought was particularly insightful, he was exhibiting grandiose thinking. Nothing was right. If he said, ‘I can’t do anything right,’ then he is clinically depressed. He said every word that comes out turns against me.”

    Eleanor Longdon, when talking to a psychiatrist, and had to leave the “session” to go to take her position at a radio station, which she DID have, found the psychiatrist put down that she’s delusional, as if the radio station she had been working for the whole time didn’t exist, and that he had some magical ability to know whether it did or not, WITHOUT any ability to, having completely not investigated. And I have found that ANY supposed objective evaluation of those in power to make diagnosis in such a manner, be it social or “professional” is PEPPERED with such nonsense. Which I don’t know how to even express encountering such without insulting pepper, which is a valid spice.

    And for all anyone knows it was and/or is Knoedler that shows signs of a chemical imbalance he’s in denial about. I think anti-depressants and other psychiatric “medications,” like ADHD medications, which an incredible amount of psychiatrists are on, that they will facilitate such behavior. It was too much a sign of coherent thinking would Knoedler see the drugs aren’t working, have gone and investigated what’s really going on, was he cogent enough to take note!? But heh, a does of disabling agent called a “medication” will alleviate yourself from such sad, stress inducing, traumatizing realizations, that you’ve been taught wrong, you’re brainwashed, and instead of being human you’re part of a machinery of ideology that’s mental rather than reality based. Regardless of chemical agents, it’s Knoedler and the others that show signs of being a danger to others. Neither do I see getting rewards for being brainwashed, no matter the salary or image or feeling of power that goes with it, as being a sign of sanity. Certainly not a lack of danger to the self, if you really want to be human, and are interested in discovering that in others.

    I’ve had the same thing with a social worker, who THANK GOD I wasn’t forced to see, but was teaching a yoga class at a parks and recreational facility. If I couldn’t get to class, although I had tried, her not seeing me there was her “objective” evaluation that I didn’t show up because I had resentments against her (it couldn’t be because the bike rack on the bus was full and I had tried to go there but couldn’t; apparently my resentments telepathically made sure two other people filled up the bike rack of the bus before it got to where I’d have to fit my bike on it),I must have been harboring dangerous feelings regarding a disagreement, and just me not showing up was sign I had a possibly violent resentment of who knows what. I supposedly also was dangerously in love with her (if I actually watched her do the poses, I was gawking at her, anything and everything I did was misrepresented), I couldn’t expect decent responses from her or I supposedly was in love with her, I also couldn’t have a private emotional response that had nothing to do with her or it was about her, although I’m gay, and found her quite repulsively pretentious. I just wanted to learn yoga. If I showed up to class another whole array of fabricated untruths I won’t go into. The total disconnect with reality and what they think is going on with another they have diagnosed, or whose diagnosis they believe in is immense!

    It’s baffling how completely brainwashed these people are, and then you have the whole disconnect regarding that it’s a chemical imbalance, while the science says the chemical imbalance is from the disabling drugs. In Andrew’s case, it seems that he simply had a need for a discharge of needed disinhibition because of prior drug use, disabling substances the same as psychiatric drugs, legal or street……

    This “psychotic” episode if left alone might have taught him that. But instead come all of the lies, the untruths, the covert fabrications of people unable to see they are responding like brainwashed android or robots. This holy delusion of a chemical imbalance that has to be treated enforced by people who take on the same brainwashed behavior as those sacrificing goats, or virgins or their first born sons to appease a God or Gods, only now its psychiatric patients sacrificed to the ideology of eradicating something that doesn’t exist, but is believed to. And which “God” is this that needs or would be appeased by such behavior!?

    This is highly disturbing to think that some poor kid would loose his life like this. My grief goes out to his mother…… He’s not the only one. And he’s right, you can totally, if you’re sane, question whether ANYONE belongs in such places, and they might mostly just be creative, sensitive people……

  • I was so astounded by this immense wisdom from Brent Deacon PhD, and the unceasing alacrity behind it, that it has taken me this long (THREE WEEKS!) to remember I also have encountered the same truths elsewhere: was it in thought or did an angel tell me?

    This regards American corn.

    You may think this is just something thrown out of society and forced to do its business in the fields, but no! It has a long history, and immense indigenous help and respect, something akin to the holy land. Very much the same as Israel needs nuclear defense, corn needs fertilizer and pesticides. Yes, the same as that French impressionist paintings couldn’t exist without the lead in them, something called poison by the unenlightened. NAY I say to it being poison, and YAY I say to the fact that it must have universal properties, the magic of alchemy and it is our duty to see that in reality it is GOLD! Putting as much money as Brent Deacon has pointed out is necessary is just a beginning, a beginning in finding the nature of our origins. How could money be put into the new James Web space telescope, and not into finding the alchemy of lead (which is an ingredient in the most beautiful paintings ever to emerge out of human consciousness)!?

    But now corn, and fertilizer and insecticide. And genetics too, forsook I almost forgot that this was mentioned to me. It being of such immense substance and distinction that I fail to recall if it just floated into my mind, or did a friend from Heaven speak to me. Of course there’s something genetic going on with anyone that has problems with what has turned corn into an international source of experiencing the American Spirit, something heralding nature and indigenous spirit as well: insecticide and fertilizer have done this. In turn, we must find genetic flaws with anyone not supporting these spiritual buttresses! Our origins as sentient life and the Universe depend on it! The same, when you see someone walking around naked, in OUR society, don’t you immediately respond with alarm!? Can you imagine people seeing this and not being alarmed? Isn’t that ALSO a sign of chemical imbalance on THEIR part as well as genetic abnormalities that MUST be investigated? This is WHY the legal system can force a person in to treatment! To save their soul!

    Just as we must investigate how lead must be what leads to Gold, what Brent Deacon has pointed out is in the process thanks to much good will, we MUST find the gold in corn as well, and look into how what has made it bless the rest of this little wonder of a planet, that being insecticide and fertilizer, how those two MUST be inherent in natural processes such as thought! If insecticide and fertilizer can help a plant blossom out of the soil, so MUST IT be fundamental in how thought blossoms out of the brain! There HAS TO be a chemical link there!

  • I loved this interview, and the attention on what all of this does to children. This isn’t a new story, though. It’s quite bizarre to think that children are born in a way that they are incomplete, that they have to be coerced, terrified through the intimidation of deterrence or rewards and thus brainwashed to fit into our “society” to follow its “rules,” to believe all of the indoctrination instilled by fear, and then they will be “complete.” That that turns into deciding those that can’t conform have some chemical imbalance or genetic flaw is just a new turn. A new turn into how warring factions, addictions and all the rest of the thoughtless reflexes that are considered sane are instilled into people’s behavior and being human is made out to be a disease.

  • Sorry, this should have read inability rather than ability

    “And this is actually a mild case, regarding puppet courts, and what kind of a diatribe of suspicions and misinterpretations, and an ability [should read inability] to understand normal responses to abuse, and trauma, and oppression that go on when an “authority” decides someone has a disease, the authority being allowed to be more paranoid than ANY “sick” person has ever really been. “

  • I don’t now where I would stop going on what I have seen going on in the Michigan Mental Health system.

    A girl who told me all she had going on was that she was talking a lot and needed someone to talk to in her youth, then the mental health system put her on drugs that caused her to put on weight, then her father chased her around the bed with a belt because she was “too fat,” then she was put inside the asylum school, where because of the medications she couldn’t stay awake, again she was abused, this time the asylum people told her father to be harsh towards her because she was falling asleep.

    I went to visit her at an asylum, years and years later, this story of her youth I only know because we sat at a restaurant with others once. We talked about how the asylums used to be full of people that anyone could have put away for life, for something like 500 dollars, and then they started to find out that many of these people had nothing wrong with them, they only had to be re-integrated into society. This also happens to be when they started using psychiatric drugs that were dopamine antagonists, and as we all know this then was used as an excuse to make out this was some magic cure. The two had nothing to do with each other, other than people were let out that should never have been stuffed into asylums, and at the same time they started using these “medications.” Whether they had started using these medications, or whether they said “pop the weasle” each day would have no effect on whether people could function on their own after being reintegrated, only “pop the weasle,” although nonsensical or rather surrealistic were it art wouldn’t give them a chemical imbalance, and hasn’t been shown to prevent recovery (see Anatomy of an Epidemic). But so, when I went to visit this girl in an asylum [years later], I first was met with someone I had seen hanging around, and had talked with a bit, and he was standing there looking like he had been hung out to dry. Totally doped up, and so I asked him what he was doing there: “I don’t know…..” he stated. I told him to just do as he was told, and he would get out. What is one supposed to say? He had been in there A MONTH! 1000 dollars a day. WHY was he in there? I heard from this girl, and another that he had gone to a hospital and told them he was pregnant. Out of “nowhere” this is a hospital I had called years earlier as a joke, being bored, just wanting to see what they would say if I asked them if they had pregnancy tests for males. “No, sir,” was the response, with totally no inflection or color in her voice was the response from someone who picked up the other end of the phone lines. Not much of a response, but I had left it at that. If they don’t have pregnancy tests, how would they know, and how would they ever care to find out what this meant for this poor guy that had been hanging FOR A MONTH there with no one being able to respond to him but turn him into half a zombie with “meds.” The others started bantering back and forth, which I don’t know if it was talked about with the poor guy but it likely was, they said that first the doctors thought that he thought he was female, and then they thought that he thought he was pregnant but male [“genius” analytical steps isn’t it!?], and it clearly didn’t get so far as that they didn’t know how to scientifically deal with such a phenomenon, and that according to their non existent tests they couldn’t see whether he was, but……. I don’t think it’s unreasonable that if they hadn’t doped him up, he might have figured out what he was getting into, or thinking himself, let alone could someone relate to the symbolism, the emotional context, the conceptual expression.

    This girl was actually voluntarily getting shock therapy when I encountered this added “medical” mystery or creation, then when I saw her a few years later or so, she told me she had been in the state asylum, for a year, had gotten out, and she finally was living with her mother, and had someone to talk to. Quite a long journey…something she needed as a child, like any child might. I told her I was happy to hear she had someone to talk to. The reason she had been in the asylum getting shock therapy was nothing more than she had a sort of boyfriend, and they were entertaining getting married, and he had said something regarding this to her father, which wasn’t a good idea, and this girl didn’t know how to deal with her father even hearing about this [the same man that chased her around the bed with a belt when the “meds” made her too fat and was told to harshly discipline her when the “meds” caused her to fall asleep during school], instead she had put herself in the asylum. But that’s what happens when someone has been in a system so long that wanting to talk to someone is made out to be something else than needing to talk to someone, having it made out that meds that prevent her from staying awake aren’t meds that prevent her from staying awake and instead needs more “discipline” which isn’t seen as further abuse.

    And I get overloaded just trying to talk about this stuff, because the amount of pretense there is in judging a person’s behavior, simply when it’s a bit out there, this is just absolutely shocking how abusive people and the mental health system get. I immediately have at least two stories where people simply lie. Which they have regarding me, as well. Actually stuff I simply hadn’t processed yet with themes that lead towards what would be called a miracle, but that’s me. Others have lost their lives. One person being in the process of being arrested and committed who had fled her house because the neighbors had threatened to have her committed, after she fled I had first called her house, where her neighbors had trespassed into to call her case manager [they actually acted like little children playing at breaking into some place], and when I told them that if they didn’t leave her house I would call the police. That she had fled her house made it clear she didn’t want them in there. Someone said sarcastically: “Oh, would you….” So I knew they would lay a whole spiel on the police, and I never called them, yet. Then I came by her house on my bike, and she was there, with the police, and she told the police I was a really nice guy, then the police told me to move on or I would be arrested. I asked them why I would be arrested, real nicely, and was told I would be interfering with an investigation. I went home, and decided to call non-emergency, to inform the police how the neighbors had trespassed into her house. The non-emergency attendant actually told me that my friend had been taking her clothes off in public. When she had dashed off to get away from the neighbors, I was left with one of the people who had been gathering together deciding to have her committed, she immediately said: “she’s running around naked.” What HAD happened was that she had dashed off so completely terrified that she had tried to take off on my bike which was locked, and she pushed her foot down with such force that she tore her achilles tendon. Something never attended to in the asylum ( a “medical facility” ) although her leg was swollen up to the knee, and actually ruined, while they doped her up. And yes, this was a place mentioned already in George cLoony’s post above Pine Rest. The doctors told her they couldn’t fix it anymore, when it was finally looked at, because it hadn’t been attended to. That being afterwards. During this whole cycle of abuse, while she was being arrested, the non-emergency police had also told me she had been taking her clothes off. They sounded real concerned. After this whole drama, and she got out of the asylum, she calmly told me that she hadn’t at all taken her clothes off. It was just something that they THOUGHT she would do. And EXCUSE me, when has someone “might” do something because they are “crazy” become such an excuse, except it usually is!? Starting a war would be OK, but running around naked is that alarming that when people think she might do it, it’s believed, even by the police. And someone can be in a “medical facility,” have such a wound that their leg is swollen up to the knee because they have a tore achilles tendon, but it’s not looked at, while she’s drugged up till she doesn’t know whether she’s taking anything anymore, is intimidated and terrified till she’ll do whatever she’s told, and no one is held responsible that they never attended to a real physical trauma!? AFTER she is arrested and forced on such “treatment!?”

    And there’s more to it. I’m already overloaded.

    The same group of supposedly more open minded grass roots gang did the same thing to another girl, their story completely falling apart that they thought she “needed” help. What’s the most tragic is how people get stuck so scared of their own natural responses, which they might learn to understand when allowed to, that the simple anxiety of starting to wake up from being indoctrinated or what would happen when they aren’t compliant, and then what they have encountered before causing them to out of fear reach for the very system which prevents them from integrating, from understanding, from becoming familiar with what they need to get to know to grow the way their soul needs to be allowed to, they become scared of themselves. And not just of themselves, but what it is to be human. Scared of simply being human and alive. Beyond time, beyond accepted social norms of said period, and beyond what the fear’s ego has set up as “surviving.”

    I’ve seen someone trying to get her father from being her guardian, met with “social workers” when she would have friends visiting her at all, simply friends, have the social worker say she was suspicious that the girl was getting paid for sex (it was simply a friend visiting her), and this is taken seriously by a court judge; the girl couldn’t mention that the meds took away all her sexual feelings, she couldn’t mention even wanting to leave the city and want to go to Chicago, where she had lived during other times in her life, all found “suspicious,” or signs of “bipolar.” Then the judge had her drug tested, she apparently, in trying to deal with how she was boxed up had done some cocaine with this friend of hers. Evidently he supplied her with it, I would think. But she was so doped up she didn’t remember, and after the test she did admit to it, she simply had forgotten. But the judge decided this was evidence that she wasn’t aware of the “disease” she had. How many people: anyone who does cocaine, anyone who wants to leave the city they are in when others think they aren’t being “responsible,” or that are accused of prostituting themselves when they aren’t, WHAT a number we would have of who is bipolar!? And I sat and watched this go on in a court. No mention of the drugs that weren’t helping her, what the situation with her father must have been who wouldn’t listen to her actually express HOW the “treatment” was effecting her…….

    And this is actually a mild case, regarding puppet courts, and what kind of a diatribe of suspicions and misinterpretations, and an ability to understand normal responses to abuse, and trauma, and oppression that go on when an “authority” decides someone has a disease, the authority being allowed to be more paranoid than ANY “sick” person has ever really been.

    Another friend of mine lost her parents at a very early age, and nature became the bridge, the channel to her parents spirits. And many other friends she had lost, most in the mental health system. She had ended up in the asylum, and they were going to let her out, and it was actually her birthday, or her mother’s, I don’t remember, and sitting in one of those ill kept courtyards where only a few amazing weeds pop up through the cracks, somehow a bird landed within view. She told another inmate that that was her mother. No interest in what she was expressing, what this meant about her life, and she told me they were going to keep her in there longer, a couple more weeks. I called up, and let someone have it, talking about religious persecution of Native American beliefs, and I don’t know what else. Got an apologetic response I don’t want to insult sheep about trying to characterize it. “We were just trying to….” as if this is going to make me or anyone else feel they are doing their job. She did get out then, but AGAIN unfortunately, remained stuck in the system. Knowing the medications didn’t help, couldn’t get off of them because of the withdrawal symptoms, and then all the traps they set…….

    Millions of dollars, all sorts of buildings, whole “facilities,” being built, and yet remaining full of people who understand less about mental illness than those who have experienced it. And instead of wanting to find out they fuss about who knows what.

    Fortunately I found that there are others there, in the system. But those usually aren’t the ones working for the mainstream outfits, it seems. Every time I see a board that says “behavioral” health, um……

    WHOSE behavior exactly? It seems paranoia has become an institution……

  • I can only imagine the horrors of trying to deal with the peer pressure, and the pretentious gossip of ANY school, which is inevitably filled with very insecure teenagers that already are forced to sit and “behave” themselves in a society that’s not really interested in them being human, but more that they conform and become part of the “work force,” keep the “economy” going, don’t expose the superficiality and corruption going on, and thus are apt to out of extreme insecurity assault anyone not showing signs of assimilation with taunting and snide remarks, alarmist pretentious, or patronizing “kindness.”

    I haven’t had to deal with that during high school, although by then I was so insecure myself I thought there was something wrong with me that I didn’t have the social machinery to interact. But only experiencing the responses of high school people while not even having anything to do with their “institutions,” its harrowing to think what anyone inside of such places having to walk around every day surrounded by such behavior and mindset, what they have to deal with.

    And then as the article states, treatments that do the opposite of what they are touted to, not being able to express that, not only to the clinicians but to the population in general, that is all very very sad and abusive…..

  • This post is NOT about vaccines, it’s about anti-depressants! And there is a science behind vaccines that’s highly lacking regarding anti-depressants.

    I think that vaccines have caused a lot of autism, which is not acknowledged. I think that the autism also comes from the way that one company wouldn’t supply its vaccine unless packaged with other vaccines, thus forcing anyone wanting that vaccine to get a dangerous triple does of vaccines with the MMR vaccine, that THAT caused a lot of injuries, I think that giving a child right after birth vaccines, when they don’t even have an immune system to process it, all done to get the parents to think it should be done regularly, I think that that’s ridiculous, I also think people should be allowed to not get a vaccine, if they don’t want to. I also think that when vaccines cause injuries that the companies shouldn’t be held irresponsible, the state instead paying for the costs of the damages.

    But all of that doesn’t mean that vaccines don’t help some people. Neither does it mean that the covid vaccines haven’t helped anyone and that they have no scientific basis. I have had both jabs, and a booster, then got covid itself the first week of July, but only had moderate to mild symptoms. I’m not going to disqualify the vaccine from having helped or not. But then there are alternative methods, also breathing exercises, and Thieves oil as an anti-bacterial along with Artemisia extract, and simply staying at home and resting rather than getting alarmed. There is all sorts of alternative help that’s not really shared, simply changing the American diet would do wonders. People are STILL dying more of preventable diseases regarding their unhealthy diet than from covid. That the “government” doesn’t really address that with the same amount of attention is highly corrupt.

    If there had been proper quarantines in the beginning the disease might have never spread, since it needs human hosts. No one who is sick she still be forced to work. There’s also evidence you can’t just push to the side that if they weren’t experimenting with biological weapons we wouldn’t have this problem (the US biological weapons dept. went to Wuhan because the US senate didn’t give them enough money to do it in the US, the covid virus comes from a bat that isn’t even indigenous to the Wuhan area, they never found the virus in any animal remains from the market, it only was in water, so could have come from a human, the dna of it shows signs of genetic splicing etc.). Regardless of all of that they shouldn’t be doing such experiments to begin with whether covid was genetically manipulated or not, as little as that being able to blow up all human life at least 20 times with nuclear weapons makes ANYONE ANYWHERE safe. Neither is being able to destroy the pharm industry by being able to blow up all human life 20 times with nuclear weapons the way to make change.

    I don’t think people should be forced on the vaccine, in fact I don’t think that Djokovic should have been barred from the US open for not having been vaccinated. He had covid in the beginning, but it was asymptomatic. But this doesn’t mean that there’s no science behind it, and that people who want to be vaccinated are all misinformed.

    The scientific technology for the Spizer vaccine is actually something that was already known, and could prove very useful for other diseases, but that technology wasn’t acknowledged, because that’s how the system works regarding stuff that’s new rather than in the market. So, that might even prove to be a plus.

    But this post of Whitaker is NOT about covid, or vaccines or masks, and to take up the pitch forks and start demonizing everything about the pharm industry and/or therapists is not helpful, it only gives the extremists on the other side something to point their fingers at. I REALLY wish it would stop, because it becomes highly insensitive to what would help make change. It also shows EXTREME insensitivity to people that simply need a healing environment and NOT one full of distressing demands that they get involved in conflict.

    I don’t even know what to say about all of this because I work with a healer, a lady who was tested in Japan and by simply sending energy from the right side of her brain, she got in a hospital with thermal imagery testing, a cancerous tumor to disappear within 10 minutes. Which she did because she found she might be able to help people but DID NOT want to hurt these very vulnerable people looking for help. Since she has helped a whole list of people, and children, and someone who had friends that work with her, who was in the hospital dying from covid who wasn’t suspected to survive was helped by her when his friends asked her to help him, and his health turned around as soon as she helped, and he thanked her. She’s also helped quite a few others. I’ve also had healing that wasn’t supposed to happen, because I wanted to experience that. That also goes along with what would otherwise only be seen as non-reality base “schizophrenic” thinking, because of the extra insight that might come would such thoughts be allowed to have meaning and be processed. Thoughts that happen by themselves. But then again she is NOT from a formal religious setting, and has no need for that. She also has had the covid jabs, but she doesn’t say she can decide for other people, and many were asking her regarding this.

    This fanaticism on all sides becomes highly distracting, and now I’ve spent all of this – WAY TOO MUCH – time, and have written something that really is consequently quite off topic. And I’m not going to look to see whether there are any more reactionary responses keeping the post warped off topic with extremism regarding the pharm industry or whether the government sees religion as essential enough or not……|

    People should be able to express themselves without having to have all sorts of predatory attempts trying to get them involved in extremism, whether it’s “Jesus,” another “religion,” the Pharm industry, Scientology, the anti-Pharm movement or anyone else trying to indoctrinate people rather than allowing them to think for themselves, to be able to follow their own thoughts, to simply be able to express themselves and feel safe to do that WITHOUT some attempt to make them feel guilty that they don’t see fill-in-the-blank as the enemy. That’s NOT how healing works or happens.

  • Although I don’t think the vaccine should be forced on people, the scientific evidence is quite conclusive that they can help people against covid, although not without problems that can’t be ignored. My statement about the church was exactly that, which is what big business is doing now. Promising someone an entrance to Heaven is no different than big business promises of “happiness.” The government also still does not require churches to pay income tax, so it’s hardly that they have been “shut down” the past two years.

    There’s a vast difference between how psychiatric drugs have no scientific basis as agents that treat a chemical imbalance and how the covid vaccines work. Not that I am trying to force the vaccines on anyone, but we are talking about science, not about a gripe against anything and everything the pharm industry puts out.

  • Woah! I just looked at how many people clicked on this link, which was 1111, and the amount of comments was 11, but then it switched to 1112. Apparently we are one past ones.

    Birdsong, there’s not much science allowed regarding anti-depressants other than marketing.

    I’ve had it twice that in encountering family members who lost a child, a mother and an uncle, that simply stating the real science regarding anti-depressants is something akin to trying to tell a pharisee they don’t need to slaughter another animal for whatever reason. How people don’t think that who knows what that for who knows what kind of reason has the deception of stress reduction (slaughter the oxen, and you’ve done something to appease “God” so no worries, and DAMN if there are others that just want to take that belief away from you)…. or it’s about doing that noble thing and promoting said fix, that good clean feeling like joining the army to fight another proxy war where those pumping it up, regardless which side they are funding, really don’t care much about anything other than what they can reap from a destabilized area, which is why they keep it going.

    Anything and everything these days that’s a normal healthy response to the challenges of growth, or a catharsis that would lead towards a needed new outlook, it’s all dowsed with these magic pills.

    Go to the mall, turn on netflix, God save the Queen, now the King or your favorite Hollywood star or sports hero, have you tried that new chocolate, lets go to that new fast food place, Oh that new fashion or technology is the rave, no lets try Disney…..

    Who said that religion was the opium of the masses, that’s past history, now it’s brought to you by the drug companies and the marketing industry….

  • Sadness used to be what you feel, when you feel it. A natural part of life. Before you make change in life, realizing something is not what you thought, or what you were told, and you have to redirect your attention, or rebel, or move away from something, you would go through this period. Or what you had to let go of. If someone dear to you passed away, it was something you went through, something that might even make the time you spent with the more dear to you. Now it’s a disease!? Something you push away from feeling it. Something you’re not supposed to want to feel. Added to that the treatment is more apt to make you suicidal, all added to the fact that it’s a disease, rather than if you just let it be you might find out what it’s telling you. I don’t think you can tell your doctor that someone you loved passed away, or that you’re going through anything, without possibly being offered this disabling substance.

    HOW MUCH of what goes on in life is reflective of this. When there’s change that needs to take place, instead of people going through the period of sadness in order to integrate their feelings about it, in order to process how they feel, that this is made out to be a disease!? What kind of complacency to consumerism, and the marketing of social norms, and mob mentality, and the ability to feel or even process what we want in life are we robbed of? I remember commercials regarding social anxiety, and if you were uncomfortable going to the prom, this pill would help you. How much of stuff that’s simply unhealthy: what we eat, the social environment we think we need to compromise ourselves, to, the daily habits we take on, how much of this when it doesn’t please us is met with this magic pill so we don’t find out what the true result is of what we take into our lives?

    Even in the arts, I’m sad to say. Even though I might sound like a disgruntled ogre. Music used to have a soothing sadness to it, a plaintive quality that allowed and got you to feel what’s in life beyond what you felt you needed to hold onto, that it’s all good. You could detach and just feel. What kind of preppy stimulant or aggressive maniac thrill seeking we’re assaulted with as art now, all genres of it all seeming to be more about what someone posts on their “social” media, what clothes they wear, what they keep hidden in their life, what bait the paparazzi catches, how they play the system, how they get others to think such debauchery is the good life, how you brainwash people with stimulant…..

    It’s like an assault on honesty.
    I’m not sad, I’m normal: “happy,” wind me up some more! CRANK THOSE GEARS!

    https://journalnow.com/more-than-37-million-americans-take-antidepressants-authors-say/article_36f2f74b-e268-5731-bdc0-d92a036d2cd4.html

  • All of these wonderful groups have such a miraculous function. They truly help anyone who needs to feel they aren’t crazy or abandoned when they just can’t stomach what’s going on towards people with a diagnosis. It’s a real support, just to be able to spend one’s time composing posts where you’re ALLOWED to freely speak the truth, where you’re allowed to have the insights you have, where you don’t have to be on edge constantly concerned you’ll be dismissed.

  • Just to let you know Daiphanous Weeping, I got off of sugar a year or two ago, and I wouldn’t want strawberry ice cream for the life of me. A healer name Charlie Goldsmith stresses how we are brainwashed with advertising to go for certain foods, and they have addicting stuff in them (MSG, sugar, salt, who knows what else) and everything tastes so much better without sugar, actually. Simple meals are like from Heaven, instead. Fried eggs with rice, some beans 9kidney, garbanzo, etc.), maybe some vegetables and curry powder, that’s like from Heaven, so are many other things. So, no worry regarding me needing that fix of strawberry ice cream and investing in nukes to defend it. Goes pretty much for everything, or anything else needing such backing, I’d think.

  • I”m again rather astounded at the rather veiled attempt to hide what ends up being projections of what would CAUSE one to believe what works, what doesn’t, and a whole intimidation of what’s realistic and what isn’t.

    “most psychiatrists try to do their best under pretty oppressive work situations over the last decade or two, resulting in an epidemic of our burning out”

    “In view of these system problems, most clinical psychiatrists try to do what they can under very limited time, and that is medication.”

    Where is the epidemic, and which system is oppressive to whom, and what can be done? Adding to an epidemic (on either side) is hardly doing what one can under limited time, when one’s job is to tend to it. FURTHER MORE, Saying the psychiatrist and the patient have to work together, while EXCUSING with watered down propaganda or slight of hand remarks (using the term medication erroneously) so that the Psychiatrist is not only allowed but expected to lie to the patient. The patient being someone already under EXTREME distress looking for an answer or answers, or having been put in a situation by othesr that they don’t understand and find oppressive: waving the flag of “we-did-something-we-medicated,” once again returns to something akin to the “stress reduction” of sacrificing a goat, a virgin or your first born son. You DIDN’T medicate, neither does the placebo effect turn it into that.

    STOP misusing the English language.

    And poor Steve has to try to respond to this, which I can imagine becomes being at such a loss for words that the phrase “path of least resistance” comes up. Least resistance to what? Yeah seems easier doesn’t it? Might that have to do with the epidemic (the burn out of the psychiatrists as well as the increase in the problem they are said to be tending to). Getting lost in a maze that’s highly deceptive isn’t even really a path, that’s how you get lost. The path of least resistance to not being a path…..

    And the rest is excuses.

    I completely don’t see how advertising “I never went for the chemical imbalance theory” spiced up with “I stated that SSRI’s seem to increase serotonin,” how this is not avoiding articulately caring about a patient. The difference might be dismiss-able between treating chemical imbalance[S] and saying that increasing said substance helps depression, but dissolves when one points out your (and you are) [you’re] as “spelling” mistakes go) ADVERTISING messing around with brain chemistry and denying chemical imbalance (that would be what the anti-depressants cause, which isn’t theory it’s proven science); added to this anti-depressants don’t “seem” to increase serotonin, they block the re-uptake which increases the amount left over because the brain has been GIVEN a chemical imbalance by the “medication”, then the brain stops making as much [serotonin], and you have less. That’s no explanation, it’s avoiding an explanation, it’s not informed consent, it’s not true, and sorry but this becomes a problem when one gets a degree in medicine to habituate such statements, to have others believe it is authoritative. It’s actually AGAINST true medical science.

    Consistently making watered down highly triggering statements to already overloaded confused people, who if they don’t have the matrix, the syntax, to look past the deception are going to feel it, this is highly insensitive. People already feeling overloaded consequently getting more stressed out; and then when someone DOES have the syntax to see how they are being deceived, won’t excuse the cloaking rhetoric, to then call them agitated (delusional, whatever it takes to fit them into the “medication” matrix), and say that is: “animosity towards any psychiatrist that didn’t fall in line with the going criticisms of psychiatry.”

    No, it’s not OK to spin out a second untruth, acting like you’re helping those who could see past the first one.

    And it’s not going to work, and it’s redundant….

    Also, I think that it’s “systemic problems” not system problems. System isn’t an adjective, you can’t use it color whatever as if it being a “system” it’s one of those constructions that works, or you have, or it’s a good idea to stay with it to be part of things. It’s problems of that system, not “system problems,” I think. Which in other cases is problems of “the system.”

  • I didn’t even catch this at first, but is this REALLY an attempt to display the ability to diagnose? Spelling mistakes are a symptom of disregard for the truth because of carelessness?

    How many people believe this?

    Might it be the other way around. I think spelling is something one is taught by rote, it’s not inherent in the truth, given history it certainly isn’t permanent. And this regarding the English language where there are so many variables regarding spelling that it can be quite irrelevant of pronunciation.

    And to start such a whole fallacy with the idea that there aren’t just “innocent” mistakes going on and “some people” might think there are….

    Is THIS an innocent mistake!? Here:

    “I think what is important to discuss is the real life clinical work of many psychiatrists because even the best quality studies are not the same as everyday clinical work. When I was seeing patients, I never used the chemical imbalance theory, but instead that serotonin seemed to be increased in the brain with SSRIs.”

    Overlooking clear evidence in studies by promoting anecdotal evidence and supporting a marketing ploy about antidepressants which doesn’t pan out but is the opposite (in the long run antidepressants cause less serotonin)….

    One wonders what other kind of excursions into “magical” statements one is to encounter would one continue, this regarding someone trying to point out mistakes that aren’t “innocent.”

    There’s a difference between lack of innocence, and lack of indoctrination, or lack of brainwashing…..

  • Holy Shit! again.

    To begin with, regards for the truth is in the content, not in spelling someone’s name. Further more (AGAIN) SSRIs do not increase serotonin, they for a few weeks might do that, but then the brain compensates, and there’s less serotonin. That’s also the truth (not what “seems” to be going on), regardless of how I spell serotonin. To then talk about the “deepest” and “most important ways” not being known, after making erroneous statements about what is known regarding SSRIs using generic statements from an industry that numerous times has tried to make out that the clear scientific evidence pointing out how their treatments damage the brain is the result of what they call “diseases:” this further isn’t going to herald the truth, no matter how much you put together such propaganda with correct spelling. Neither is calling such industries our “mutual” enemy, while perpetuating their fraudulent statements.

    Bizarre nebulous statement such as: “I was never all that enamored with the results overall, but many individual patients did well. Almost always, joint treatment with psychotherapy enhanced the results.” Also do nothing but promote complacency regarding something that is already said to not really work that well (if at all), as if implying that when one isn’t enamored one is critical enough, and then bring in anecdotal evidence. How those people are doing does not depend on what you believe is going on, nor what you report here as “many individual patients did well” nor whether or not desperate people come to you for help (as little as that people regularly going to Mac Donald’s for food are indulging in healthy nutrition when they keep going there), or whether you make enough money to try to humiliate people that are interested in the truth, and have the leisure to be fussing about spelling mistakes rather than content. We would have to talk to those patients themselves, and also the ones that tried to get help but left.

    Someone that truly is interested in helping others with challenges involving cognition I think would have deeper understanding of life that trying to promote that correct spelling determines whether someone is interested in the truth. Further more caring to use correct spelling to disassociate from the truth, and pepper this with such deceptive logic when the truth is indeed challenging, to say that that is how one deals with depression, is more using sadness as an excuse to AVOID the truth and disable the mind from having the courage to face it. And THERE you have your “disease.”

    Fussing about spelling, reiterating false statements, using anecdotal stories, the rest of it and who knows what else this is about avoiding the truth, THAT is not something Robert Whitaker indulges in.

    It becomes abusive when someone made out to be professional repeatedly hauls out such games, it takes a populous of people having been through such lies to have to straighten them out, and then once again hear such a “professional” say it’s worthless to continue respecting those who simply try to express how their lives were ruined, because of the lies, and the indifference.

  • If 97.3 percent seem to be treatment resistant to antidepressanting as part of treatment, is this a better result than the 99 percent being treatment resistant regarding the economy (in contrast to the 1%)? Psychiatrists only make it up to the the top 5%, though, regarding economic “health” stats. Are they doing better or worse?

    Sorry, but this becomes rather difficult to take seriously. It’s like who makes it in Hollywood and who doesn’t. Who is better at hiding whatever isn’t turning up being blasted all over everywhere, with socially acceptable chase scenes involved, with holy regalia of what a hero or toy for the masses should invest in as salvation.

  • Sorry, I get “lost:” or rather over loaded: When I mentioned (in the prior post this is a response to): “after a slew of confounding (corrupt) manipulations comes up with a total percentage of being “long term” effective for less than 3 percent of people!? ” In supporting using the term corrupt I didn’t add the question regarding the even 2.7 percent of effectivity the drugs exhibit, how much does this come from the “2 week washout period” in the trials, where they actually took people out who already were in the trial and got better in the non control group, and thus weren’t counted. Which actually goes AGAINST the definition of washout period again, because that WAS supposed to happen BEFORE the trial, not DURING. So did they actually test people for two weeks to see if they were depressed, found they were, but if they got better AFTERWARDS without any treatment, they were “washed out” again when that goes against the very definition of wash out!? And all the rest of the games like giving people not just an anti-depressant but also a sedative because of akithesia (otherwise they weren’t getting the results they needed), of taking people already on psychiatric drugs into the trial, and not reporting how many people in the control group had to leave the trial because they had side effect that were THAT bad. Or not reporting it when there were suicides in the trial period, and then not acknowledging that effect still going on after FDA approval till they were forced to.

    And HOW MANY trials did they have before they had trials they could report. If the majority of trials were so bad they didn’t report them, how could that be “science” to play all these games till you can through some deceptive device of convolution come up with WHAT!? after all of that is still quite bleak….. And then the 67% which was really 2.7 percent is the end result!?

  • Where does this scary term “treatment resistant depression” come from!? Can anyone even have the consideration to see how terrifying such a concept can be to someone, when the whole focus on what’s treatment, after a slew of confounding (corrupt) manipulations comes up with a total percentage of being “long term” effective for less than 3 percent of people!? 97.3 percent are “treatment resistant.” Yeah, and this is after one year. And I’m sorry but it’s not unreasonable (also given the results of such ideology when implemented that it’s a chemical imbalance) to consider that the whole premise is quite profoundly out of the ball park, so to speak. It’s like selling love spells or what the Catholic Church used to call indulgences and had to stop doing so directly, although its ideology still creates quite a call on people’s finances.
    Not to be sarcastic, but what does this do to the environment, the emotional health of the society such people are in? In a “society” where after one year 97.3% looking for treatment for depression have a problem which according to mainstream, sometimes coerced, government and insurance funded “medical” treatment is then considered resistance to treatment, in other words there is no treatment for it!? SOMEHOW, I don’t think that makes the rest of the society happy. I don’t think it improves the society. EVEN THOUGH in typing this I have to laugh, because it more resembles something one would make up as a joke, as in when the crops fail slaughter another goat, your first born son, or a virgin. Oh that will help. FDA approved, folks. DO SOMETHING, DON’T JUST SIT THERE LOOKING BAFFLED OR UNCONVINCED, YOUR LIVES ARE IN DANGER! Were the true grounded statistics shared openly and honestly, no one would go for such “treatment” where after a year there’s 2.7 percent for that it “works” for. And the concept “treatment resistant,” wouldn’t be so scary as to make people think there’s something wrong with them were they 97.3% of anyone experiencing sadness believing there was “treatment” for such discomfort. And they wouldn’t have to deal with side effects, trying to get off of highly addictive medication, and thus withdrawal symptoms and iatrogenic disease they didn’t have before, the added frustration, sadness and defeat that they didn’t find what they were looking for.

    And I’m just taking this lightly. How does this 2.7 percent balance off with all of the addiction, side effect, withdrawal symptoms, disability and confusion that go with the rest of the 97.3 percent. And beyond that “100%” how does this effect everyone that has to deal with the effect. All the mass shootings in association with black warning labels the drug companies tried to avoid, effects they lied about knowing before they were forced to. The added fear of normal responses to life that statistically didn’t to such a degree become disabling “diseases” before people were terrified into thinking there’s something wrong with them (supported by the fact that they can improve the lives of 2.7%, the rest being “treatment resistant”). People policing with good will an ideology that doesn’t really pan out, and all of the added frustration, and cognitive dissonance, and all of the investments in ideology, money and indoctrination that doesn’t add up.

    The rest are “treatment resistant,” “non compliant,” or “misleading the public” !?

  • I notice that after the whole exposition of how the ideology that depression comes from a lack of serotonin is exposed as not panning out, we finally get that if that were true that anti-depressants aren’t doing that. After a few weeks the brain starts to adjust, because there’s so much serotonin left over in the synapse, and the brain stops producing as much serotonin, so there’s actually less serotonin. The whole marketing blip is not even true.

    (!?)

    There’s also the fact that the clinical trials not only had HAD to use people that already were on psychiatric drugs to get the results they wanted and/or give them a sedative because of the akithesia effect, but had taken out people in the non control group that got better the first few weeks (they supposedly then weren’t depressed, but someone who is used to having their natural brain chemistry compromised or likes a disabled mind from anti-depressants they then are left in the trial); there’s also the fact that in some of the trials more than half the people in the control group had to leave because of side effects (this of course wasn’t counted), neither were the amount of severe withdrawal symptoms initially reported of people in the control group who didn’t get a “therapeutic” result, and had to get off of the anti-depressant: these withdrawal symptoms which could be inability to stay awake, or sleep, fevers, seizure, akithesia, a whole list of others that would take pages weren’t reported, in fact left out till further looked into; and then the long term effect where people who felt they had a “therapeutic” result couldn’t get off of the antidepressants without again severe side effects. Added to that, they knew that there were people that got homicidal or suicidal, in fact in the trials there were suicides; but not only did they aggressively cover this up, but when this was ongoing after anti-depressants were FDA approved they simply didn’t report it, and then after getting an international collective of people addicted to anti-depressants, they tried to prevent the warning label that’s current. Still one can add up how much addiction to these highly addictive “medications” played a role as to whether they were still being taken. And then we get the amount of collusion between the extreme rise in mass shootings and anti-depressants or other psychiatric drugs. That’s then used as a call to force more people on drugs, same as withdrawal symptoms, same as side effects used to get people on a cocktails of drugs. And then we have all the marketing, people just wanting to believe that they can pop a pill and fix their life; and the whole change in conception of depression, leading to paranoia against something as scary as that it’s associated with faulty brain chemistry. Something that used to go away, although uncomfortable was made out to be so scary, with added ideology as treatment, this then could be exploited, harnessed to gain a whole populace of consumers of anti-depressants and other “medications,” when in reality the medications cause disruption of natural brain functions (chemical imbalance) the disease hasn’t been proven to cause, and the drug companies more than a decade ago stopped looking for this “illusive” proof that their medications treat chemical imbalance.

    THIS is what a person comes up against wanting to find answers to mental health, and those stuck in the system can’t voice the truth or possibly be found non-compliant. How many people have been “forced” on these treatments and possibly wouldn’t even be able to dare to entertain the truth, consequently? How many people actually interested in mental health, wanting to help others, got so full of ideology and propaganda that their FIRST response is to get frustrated and blame those not following “treatment” as it jars with the programming they’ve been inundated with akin to the pastel colors, butterflies and angel wings that go with such marketing? How many people have not been able to share the truth as clinicians or psychiatrists? How many people who truly could have helped others chose another job when they got gist of what’s going on? How many people have died or had their lives severely disabled because of all of this? How many people have become the brunt of superstition, gossip, demonizing and bullying because of this ideology that they are dangerous and there’s something wrong with their brain?

    And it’s effected more than just “mental health” in all areas of life, anyone expressing dissent can become labeled, or be terrified of going outside of the box. Anyone acting a bit weird can suddenly be made out to be some imminent danger and assaulted with “treatments” that in reality are in collusion with the rise in violence, all because of this chemical imbalance ideology that is treated with “medications” that are proven to cause chemical imbalance in contrast to the “disease” that’s alleged to.

    I’ve actually had it myself that when being honest enough about thought itself, that other people and namely a “social worker” didn’t have the ability to understand, and having delved into necessary symbolic dreamlike-spiritual areas, even knowing the next day that it was symbolic rather than “actual” (which I’m saying because symbolism can be more objective than physical reality because it involves your reflexes, your thoughts, which determine the future, and HAS TO remain intangible to the physical) but fine it wasn’t “actual” although the next day when I realized that I already was made out to be a dangerous psychotic that could become violent, for nothing more than the EXTREME paranoia of the social worker. I was lucky that I wasn’t directly involved with this brainwashed individual, so I wasn’t institutionalized; but in the working out of the symbolism and the theme regarding life that it animated (the initial idea of what I was trying to express that became symbolic: the symbolism I believed in for one day that was made out to be dangerous psychosis) although in the end the very theme that needed the symbolism it lead to what metaphysically would be called a miracle (I have the x-rays to prove it), as well as spiritual connections with people from beyond time (that I hadn’t even met yet at that moment when I was made out to be crazy, and where the very meaning of how life brings together such interactions wouldn’t have become conscious) where such themes basically give meaning to life (does life have meaning that there’s themes like in “fiction” and who we encounter in life are the working out of those themes?) and to understand it you really have to go beyond the boundaries put on what’s sane and what isn’t. And emotions that aren’t compliant with society’s limitations, or even the dream you had of fitting into that, they when allowed to beyond the discomfort give you wings rather than inhibit your life. And seriously, what lead to a miracle was made out to be dangerously psychotic. Fortunately, it got this social worker out of my life who was so off, and like a synthetic intelligence program who spun some delusional handle on anything as if there was some other devious meaning to it, spiced this up with lies to such a degree that it makes me wonder WHAT she was on.

    She could have ruined my whole life had she control over it, and I was the one that was supposed to be dangerously psychotic!?

    Instead I have a deeper understanding of life, where miracles are allowed.

    And don’t do this! Don’t sit and groan about something that makes you think it gets in the way of your ability to function, when in reality, would you look at it clearly it’s nothing but sane compared to the straight jacket of limitations you’re supposed to believe is what you need to find your way: your way in what? WHAT subset of fabricated beliefs are you supposed to be imprisoned in, where everyone is holding onto them to such a degree that their lack of logic needs you to feel there’s some loss when you find you’re not inhibiting yourself in such a fashion to take part in this @#$_(#$()#$%*#$%(#$)%(). EVEN when you don’t know why you did that. It’s OK. It’ll make sense in the end.

  • To simply read that someone takes the trouble to take down the whole myth that “schizophrenia” is some terrible genetic condition, that there’s something as terrifyingly wrong with you as faulty genes or a brain that’s not working, and have it, with clear science pointed out that it comes from trauma, stress and bullying, anyone that has had to deal with such a “diagnosis,” gets information they need to hear in order to be able to relate to themselves further, would they want to understand for themselves who they are.

  • I think the correct generalization is that when you’re not fighting against it, you’re not starting a war. In this case against the very miracles of genetics, chemistry, and physiology that allow for thought.

    And that generalization works for so much. Where did the body come from, all matter “for that matter,” is there any harmony there beyond our ability to control (to see, to police, to regulate, to harness) other then allowing it space to do what it does, when we are given the blessing to experience it?

    The one time I was made out to be “because of non reality based thinking” supposedly someone who might become violent (for no other reason than I communicated things others didn’t understand, in reality because it was spiritual, and in the end cleared up the understanding with what would even metaphysically be called a miracle), this diagnosed “non reality based thinking” which was supposed to be a symptoms of a “disease” turned out to be nothing but yet unprocessed material (of thought) that lead to understanding beyond linear time, even why time exists. Or that we’re not separate from it. What is when we try to understand each other, rather than invest in alarmist propaganda that makes us believe we’re “safe” what if we instead try to understand each other that then time doesn’t have to repeat itself showing us we’re the ones causing this “danger.” (!?) The very essence of how the human spirit responds to, and actually transcends trauma, can heal from impossible trauma even, this is some danger? What if we could heal what trauma does rather than CONSTANTLY using it as a means of population control, reinvesting in it rather than exposing what it really does. What if a society was possible without all of the of militarism, jails, educational institutions with grades, economies run on who gets money and who doesn’t, societies giving out rewards for anyone complying to their compromises, all built on “sin” that can only be eradicated by traumatizing the guilty.

    Seriously, I touched upon a whole matrix of themes that went beyond time going round in circles, was cognitively in touch with what was being let go of to all for miracles, and then being stubborn enough to believe in one, and invest in it, when the physical healing took place, all of this stuff that was labeled as symptoms of “schizophrenia” became clear for what really the thought behind it was. But the investment wasn’t in fear. In fact to say “crazy” things, you have to already have shed that….

    right?

  • Of course deer talk, they just use a different language that doesn’t involve the highly corrupt mental constructs humans have, where if you put something into words that can come out another’s mouth and make it sound good enough propped up with fabricated logic then it’s the truth.

    Dolphins (and whales and primates) have as much of an experience of life as we do, Whales and Dolphins have been listed as non-human persons https://www.giveindia.org/blog/four-reasons-why-india-recognises-dolphins-as-non-human-persons/. Yes that’s very true that one can communicate telepathically with dolphins.

    I don’t believe in original sin though, same as I don’t believe that it’s impossible to give without suffering loss, or that suffering is necessary for gain; nor that it’s unrealistic to forgive, nor that investing in those things don’t have a tangible effect that’s positive when you pay attention. No matter how much people think that’s crazy.

    I think you can give without suffering loss, that’s where the word forgive comes from, I also think we’re meant to enjoy life, and that includes not taking part in all the stuff we’re supposed to with the no pain no gain ideology. Letting go of something to allow what’s beyond it that our ego can’t see, that’s no loss, either.

    And back to the topic. The police are used all of the time in order to “police” it when someone is “mentally ill,” and a lot of that is because of someone having been coerced, advised or forced into taking medications that mess them up with side effect, or that have withdrawal symptoms; in fact Robert Whitaker points out such correlations real clearly. And it’s mostly starting when people are programmed to be alarmist about stuff they wouldn’t get points for being more tolerant or even interested in. What they really are doing is distracting themselves from what’s going on deeper in their “society,” and evading seeing what their compromises to fit in have done.

    Even miracles now. I really discovered that what was called a mental illness was in ways my conscious mind learning how to integrate spiritual things. Only in trying to express so much you come across really scary phobic responses, which can make you so anxious you start disassociating from your real thoughts. So I had to even forgive myself for not being able to “fit in.”

    So please, talk to dolphins, and the rest of nature…..

  • Joshua, dear man, what are you going on about?

    That joining Lenin and his fascist mob is better than going to a therapist?

    Or that no one is allowed to despair when things turn to death destruction and militarization, or there is something wrong with them?

    Like some “necessary” war against a mythological creature (the devil) which Jesus by the way never taught, it was the Romans when they corrupted Christianity that introduced original sin as a mind control method. Same As Hitler with his Reichstag (or what goes on with strategists in any war). When you make people think they are under attack you gain control over them because you can brainwash them what they need to do in response.

  • Rebel, I don’t see how what you say could have endangered anyone. i simply think that you don’t heal trauma by investing in looking at traumatizing others. And I think people have that much of an ability to create what they experience, what comes their way: if you invest in judging others to such a degree that you look for ways to hurt them, to traumatize them, no matter how just you think you’re acting, you’re causing the very thing you’re trying to prevent, and not just causing it, you’re perpetuating it. It’s like one kingdom, one empire after the other, each one with their propaganda as to why the prior one had to be destroyed, and it’s investing in being able to do that that causes the vicious cycle: it creates the ideology, it creates the weapons of war and societal resources, it glamorizes hatred and self righteous judgement. As you said, you don’t fight fire with fire, then you get burned. You also start the whole process quite blind seeing only what will perpetuate what you’re trying to stop, because that perpetuates it rather than it stops it.

  • If anyone would read that book, they would see a very good take down of how Freud and Jung both covered up trauma, particularly sexual trauma, and made up bizarre psychotherapeutical methods like Freud did with his penis envy or mythological complexes, and Jung did this with his mental abstract constructs involving symbolism making up spooky mental almost superstitious like symbolism, while he actually thought Africans were inferior and a woman’s place was in the kitchen. That’s during the time when sexual abuse wasn’t talked about, it was taboo, and racial and gender discrimination were rampant. THAT however is not about current therapy trends that acknowledge trauma. Things have changed. And there are some very good therapists that use trauma based approaches, and mindfulness etc.
    What does it express to share one book, take it out of context, and then say this proves all psychotherapists are bad? One can also share a book regarding the use of mercury as a medical treatment from the past, and then say all doctors are bad. Or one can share a book about Bambi, and say that this proves that the deer in the forest talk out of their mouth just like we do, as if that’s what it was about…

  • There are “psychotherapists” in and out of the “mental health system” who actually DO help people. Inside it, and outside of it. Whether you want to discriminate against all of them or not. I’m not even saying that it can’t be highly dangerous to talk to quite a lot of therapists, ones that only think along the bio chemical line and look for chances to force people into treatment. And then there are those that have no understanding of what the label as “depression” or “non reality based thinking.” And would think they have the right to diagnose stuff they have no ability to relate to for why it occurs. That certainly is something to avoid. however, you’re doing the same thing. Anyone looking for someone to talk to has something wrong with their thinking, and if they think they get anything out of it, that’s further a fallacy. And then anyone not stereotyping all “psychotherapists” isn’t in their right mind. And anyone that goes to a “psychotherapist” is capitulating to whatever it is you want to eradicate, and so where does it stop where YOU think you have the right to force them to do your will, and use the “mental health system” as a excuse. Neither of you interested in freedom. Or “will.”

    But the therapists that actually help people, and the programs like Soteria Project, Healing Homes of Finland, people like Eleanor Longdon and others, because they actually help people, people that are looking for help, that does something completely different then your militant inflexibility. That shows what heals, what heals people, what people are looking for and whether it escalates conflict with the “Mental Health System” or not (which it does) it HELPS the people rather than endangering vulnerable people stuck in the mental health system, by demanding they take on extremist views which would be used against them, would label them non compliant, would take away their civil liberties, and could and would end their lives. THAT actually is changing the mental health system. Whether you think something more militant needs to be done or not. The present “mental health system” also started with what the Quakers did with their asylums, although that’s highly corrupted. What you go on with is like saying that all of Europe should have been destroyed, all the buildings, all the museums, everything, when Hitler took over. The model the Quakers had worked, so does what a lot of other people do, to destroy all of that in order to take down some evil you feel everyone is supposed to be pundits in your just war against, that’s again highly counter productive. And I don’t see it’s working, when what other people do is helping has helped and will help, people who simply are interested in helping people rather than drafting them into wars and escalations. You might consider you are endangering lives the same as the “mental health system.” Both of you are.

    Nothing really has changed with such militant behavior, it just goes round in circles. And what I already said, people don’t come here to once again be told what to do, how to think, what to believe, and harassed with insinuations that they “must.” They hear that enough regarding propaganda from the drug companies.

    And I’m through going on about this, and having to read responses, which I didn’t have to read to begin with, knowing what the predictable “reaction” would be, to find that yet again, that’s that…..

    Is the world really going to end if everyone doesn’t take part in your ideological war? You or the other side you’re trying to “eradicate.”

  • Saying the whole mental health system must be eradicated is EXACTLY giving the people pulling the stops the excuse to say: “look here, all these people need help and those radicals would stop it,” and then list all of the corrupt statistics of increasing mental illness, school shooting, loss of productivity, and fail to include how much psychiatric drugs are in collusion with that. Instead making such extremist remarks as that the whole mental health system must be eradicated gives the drug companies what they need to cover up what they have been covering up, because there are “those people” that would prevent us from helping and saying our system needs to be destroyed. With such statements about “the mental health system” you give the drug companies (and ANYONE not caring to understand that extreme expression of being human that the symptoms they judge express) EXACTLY what they are looking for to implement more fear mongering. It’s un-nuanced, it’s unintelligent, and it’s no different from what you say you are trying to change. Further more, there are people in “the mental health system,” that know what’s going on, and beyond that also know how to truly help people who are coming for help. Making extremist remarks, giving the drug companies again the ammunition to say that disabling the mind is healing, push to the side all the therapies and help that do show to promote healing, that’s highly counter productive. And it prevents the people in the “mental health system” who are making change, and can make change by showing what heals from doing that. Instead you have more duality, and you give those interested in making alarmist evaluations with all of their clout, and money and connections EXACTLY what they want to make out they and the rest of society is under attack. And it covers up what does help.

    And I wrote this whole remark without even having to read the response. Again. It’s THAT predictable.

    Brain washing is brainwashing, no matter which side of the alarmist duality both sides are spouting you’re being indoctrinated by.

  • I had a friend, who committed suicide 2007 https://www.lifestorynet.com/obituaries/lisbeth-lilly-lipke.29513#memories, and there were a whole gang of people working to get her committed. In the process they had scared her so badly, that she tried to get away from them and ripped her Achilles tendon on my bike, which was locked so you couldn’t take off on it. Then she just ran away trying to get away from the people that had threatened to have her committed. At that time she really wasn’t doing anything, although she was going through a florid period. The first thing her “friends” did, after she went running off, was make up an untrue story that she was running around naked, and then they trespassed into her house and called her case manager. When I called over there telling them that it was clear my friend didn’t want them in her house, and I would call the police, I got a sarcastic reply of: “would you!?” knowing they would tell the police more alarmist fabrications, and so I never called the police. And after awhile she was being arrested on her own property, with these “friends” filling the police with alarmist fabrications, I happened to come by on my bike and when my friend simply greeted me kindly, telling the police I was a really nice guy, a police man actually told me to move on or I would be arrested, when I asked if I could ask him why, he told me I would be interfering with an investigation. I then went to my parents house, and decided to call the non emergency police and inform them how her “friends” had trespassed into her house, and I actually was told by the police a completely lie, that she had been taking off her clothes in public, which she hadn’t. I only learned this after she got out of the asylum. I was interfering with an investigation!?

    But no, in the mental health system it’s not so simple as that police only remove someone that’s trespassing, they don’t necessarily honor that you have any of your own territory that can be trespassed on. You also can’t do anything that other people do abundantly without a diagnosis. And when my friend was in the asylum, which is made out to be a medical establishment, they never looked at her tendon to see whether it was ripped, although it was swollen up to the knee, and so instead of her getting medical help, her leg was ruined.

    This is just taking things lightly, actually. I could go on for pages. The amount of stuff people make up, thinking they are protecting someone from themselves or others, it’s really not the person who is having a crisis who is paranoid, when you look at the statistical, medical, and societal results of what the mental health system does. And none of how traumatizing it all is is even considered, let alone the medical damage done with “treatment,” the declining potential for recovery, the stigmatizing, the loss of civil liberties, the disenfranchisement and the discrimination and the dehumaniziation.

  • Dreaming is how the mind creates perspective, just like reading a novel.
    And then there’s waking dreaming, something most people do when they think that drugs are magic, that fitting into the fashions of the day makes you part of a community, that parking your rear end in church makes you Christian, and part of a community, and some deity sparkles about your “purity,” or that following rules that allow you to acquire money or not be arrested for being human, that that’s making it. And then there are those who can’t adapt to all of that with their dreams, dreams that would lead toward enlightenment were they allowed to express themselves, and there you have “schizophrenia.”

    To understand that language, rather than disable the mind, you get “healing,” or simple tolerance.

    When my “schizophrenic” thoughts, the exact ones that were made out to be the most “dangerous” started making sense, is when a miracle happened in my life. But that’s another way of looking at thought in general. It wasn’t even trying to fight against the people saying I was crazy, delusional, it was just being interested in healing, and this miracle.

    And it worked.

    Just meditating twice a day for 20 minutes, and not blocking off the thoughts saying what’s possible and what isn’t….. that might create a whole other reality.

  • It’s quite scary, this.
    When psychiatry starts doing this it’s mostly denial. The emperor has no robe on syndrome, or such strange concepts as statistical based norms, consensual reality deportment, peer pressure, social bondage.

    Our “society” glamorizes the ability to coerce people into behaving a certain way, and the right to traumatize anyone who isn’t coerced becomes a commodity. Thus when people start showing signs that it’s not working you get all of the diagnosing.

    My parents are both psychologists, and God bless my mother who blossomed into spirit July 9th 2021, 94 years old; but when they were so bent on forming us, that not only would we be filled with anxiety would we start having our own thoughts about what they were trying to instill us with, that lead later in life with me into not knowing I could think things through, and disassociating into all of the behaviors that the article talks about. And beyond that my parents weren’t much interested in helping with very simple tasks everyone should learn, like brushing your teeth well. this is like not psychology but mind control. With me it was just too much [WAY too much] coffee, and before that smoking, which also didn’t help me think things through. After awhile it did put me in these states for about a month or two that I could be called “psychotic,” although that’s nothing to do with it but labeling it something to deny the trauma causing it. And it DOES become so dangerous realizing how abandoned you really were, in what kind of a hole you’re left in regarding society, that actually consciously gaining perspective on what you didn’t understand yourself regarding your behavior, the emotions are so strong, that yes many people commit suicide. As happens when someone with multiple personalities starts remembering what they suppressed.

    It’s not easy to break down all of the reflexes you’ve built up to push your real feelings away. And for years I wasn’t hardly aware of it at all. And being that society is also based on making people addicted to commodities in order to push their feelings away, it’s not like basic behavior that’s considered “social” is much of a help. And then you have psychiatry diagnosing you depending on whether you’re going along with the machinery that pushes not only you, but what it is to be human to the side. And then they have these phrases about a better life, being able to grieve in a normal way, make you more phobic about any response that’s breaking away from the mold that you might find uncomfortable, thus. I actually never believed their stories about medications, although I couldn’t just ignore that I was having symptoms of what they labeled as a psychiatric disorder. That was one of the most difficult things, being able to see that, wanting it to actually change, but knowing that they actually could force me into “treatment” that would prevent me from healing, and I’m also a creative artist and knew that it would compromise if not destroy my creative energies. But somehow in the end I was able to gain perspective.

    There’s different parts of the mind. There’s the part that takes on the indoctrination you were forced into accepting, also at a subconscious level with reflexes you don’t really know you’ve acquired. And then there’s the part of you trying to gain perspective, and will step back and allow these sometimes quite disruptive reflexes taken on because of indoctrination to emerge, so you can see they are there. And that could just be behaviors you’ve seen echoed in your parents way of responding. Then there’s other spiritual things that can emerge, because you’ve stepped back from controlling your behavior, more stuff society doesn’t want to believe exist.

    It’s not easy, then I find myself in that mind set again, that rhythm of pushing thoughts away without knowing it.

    You do reach a point where you have to see that in encountering really indoctrinated behaviors you don’t understand at first, but when you see the trauma from your youth there’s perspective, that you can only see that must have happened to those who traumatized you.

    And you have to be real human. And discard the image of what it would take for people to think you are a “saint.”

  • I seriously don’t know what to say because what I have encountered is that miracles really happen without it [Haldol], or the other “miracle” psychiatric drugs. And that’s not just a descriptive adjective, when I use the word miracle. I mean a miracle, something that can be completely normal as an experience of something. Regardless of statistical based norms, game theory and its fears, consensual reality deportment or other such adornment. If reality deported itself based on consensual beliefs, that’s QUITE a deportation….

  • Somehow, I don’t think the shooting of children in Texas was done by someone who actually created the ridiculous indoctrinations that:
    1) Guns are necessary.
    2) When Angry get violent and act out (I think that’s more a “we” thing, and “general” given the way people behave: what’s in the “entertainment” that there are jails, militaries, even street gangs etc,)
    IN FACT the shooting of children in Texas is more a display of how RIDICULOUS those beliefs are, when someone is lost how to behave. In fact the whole media blitz about that, while excusing Ukraine (as if there’s a solution there thanks to violence from EITHER side), denying what’s been going on in Yemin, all of Africa, the other places like Iraq and Afghanistan decimated. The “we” of it is more going on in Ukraine, where all sides excuse it, mostly.. In fact, such beliefs are more general, with all sorts of excuses. The saintly stance of “we don’t do that,” denying the rest of what’s going on…. THAT is a generalization, or worse….

    That there is such investment in manufacturing guns, the whole military industrial complex, that IS a “we” thing, or are there countries that exist as communities WITHOUT such!?

    It is different when someone actually looks into what someone is saying, because most of the people saying “we don’t do that,” are more part of what keeps it going, while folding over supposed moral excuses for what perpetuates the very thought that it leads anywhere but more of what the cause is to stop what result is coming from the cause that’s said to be necessary to stop the result, while the cause is causing the result (sound familiar!?)….

    By saying it is a “we” thing, that points out where the whole idea comes from that such violence has ANY excuse, and why it comes out in such a manner from people that have nothing to hold onto anymore as to how to respond. THAT might have stopped what happened in Texas, when all of the “we don’t do that,” never will.

    Admitting that it’s a we thing, would actually change society, rather than excusing much worse things, as well as what doesn’t change when it’s denied as a we thing…..

    I understand perfectly what Diaphanous weeping is saying, neither do I have to call myself a therapist to do so.

    But of course to dissect things, and when it is fragmented enough, one does have to start going on about black and white, because there’s that “fragment” that’s then……

  • Mr. Unger, you’re not talking about feelings, in fact you’ve misrepresented them. Feelings when really allowed WILL have the intelligence to know whether it’s safe to express them. And will lead to a safe place. And to separate such intelligence from feelings is quite intrusive, as if the person doesn’t have that kind of intelligence. In fact allowing feelings will find answers that such analysis never will, even when you think YOU have the answer because you’re being rational. If the rational mind had sway over life, I don’t even want to consider what evolution would have ended up being.

    But thank you for pointing out once again what kind of a mind expletive-deleted to avoid.

  • Sorry, but what a (almost used the world pathology)….
    Tries to start again (must have been reading a certain terminology)
    What a smorgasbord of scientism..

    You know, since man has existed there has been art, and the need to experience emotions at a multidimensional level. Which is what art is, it’s also why you respond the way you do, the whole day, not only when you consciously feel a certain way. Because emotions are multidimensional, and honoring that they are expressed, and one can gain perspective, one sees the beauty of life, all of it, even the stuff that we label as negative.

    I’m sorry, but when I read: “When psychotherapy works, it is because it successfully alters the problematic beliefs into adaptive beliefs like: ‘My thoughts are controllable, I control whether to follow my negative thoughts or leave them be, thoughts arise spontaneously, but I choose what to do with them; I can get in contact with my painful emotions and traumas without them escalating or overwhelming me, I control whether to give my emotions and thoughts attention, and if I choose not to, they are temporary by nature and fade rather quickly; I am not wrong or faulty, my painful emotions often indicate that something is wrong, which I’m supposed to listen to, understand, and potentially act upon’.” and the rest of it, this almost sound like some “miracles” of one can control the weather, as in that one can control one’s negative thoughts. I can get triggered by all sorts of things, one example is trying to work with ANY digital device, when it seems ALL of them by now are CLOGGED up with encompassing commercials, and the “economy” of marketing. Having encountered the plethora of pesterings and harassings one encounters in these times simply wanting to research something online, all in the name of “free market,” or in other words, if you have enough money you can join our brain washing cult. Even anything that’s delayed can start bothering me. I somehow don’t think that simply thinking: “this anger is negative thoughts, and I can control them, I can decide not to follow these thoughts,” when perhaps I then might have no idea what’s triggering them, and then never actually find out what it is that bothers me, and what my mind wants me to be wary of because that’s labeled as allowing my “emotions” to overwhelm or escalate me. AND what’s quite strange is that someone, or anyone can write music actually depicting that anger, can put it in a poem, can paint it, can use it to create perspective in a novel, can dance it, and then have it used as “entertainment” because it’s a stimulant that perhaps people STILL don’t want to see WHY, and the trigger AGAIN is exploited rather than the poor artists understand how multidimensional his emotions are. Going to “therapy” might AGAIN rob him of such understanding.

    “thoughts arise spontaneously, but I choose what to do with them”

    GOOD LUCK!

    Isn’t this why people talk about the weather so much, because they’d want to control it!?

  • In other words, when someone needs the most help to not be thrown into the system, then the “ARMS” system makes sure they end up being lost. It’s most predatory to the people who need to NOT be treated in such a manner.

    This whole paragraph, for example: “The authors point out that the first episode of psychosis is heterotypic (e.g., it can present without a prodromal period or be preceded by a mood disorder). This shift, they argue, is supported by the high rates of comorbidity and varying outcomes seen in ARMS patients, such as developmental or non-psychotic disorders, clinical improvement, not developing a psychotic disorder, or continuing to experience subthreshold symptoms and suboptimal functioning.”

    Points out that those who have the most need to understand what’s going on, because it doesn’t go away, and thus needs an approach which is based on understanding rather than discriminatory diagnosis, that they are MOST likely to be thrown into a system which will prevent them from understanding. By calling it something that it’s not. And it points out their inability to relate to the natural emotional-spiritual-cognitive symbolism or matrix of associations that need legroom, and need someone that can help a person create the matrix to understand themselves: the person’s own history, their own experiences, the associations they have, how things effect and trigger them, and the rest of it. To call a person ARMS who has a greater need, because they’ve experienced more of what society doesn’t acknowledge as effecting a person, and thus need an approach that acknowledges that rather than there’s more excuse to deny it using “ARMS”: that is simply fixated on an ideology regardless of whether it works, instead looking for a way to make out it would when out of desperation it looks like something more “critical” needs to be used. That’s fear based, not reality based. Locking people up, drugging them so their whole response system is suppressed, making them and the rest of society paranoid about their own responses using ARMS terminology….

    WHY do I have to look up what ARMS is other than it’s some jargon used!? There’s no explanation of this ARMS jargon in the whole article, as if everyone knows this is something because there’s a extraction for it. A cozy acronym. And the whole rest of the jargon used.

    What is “EYE!?” Every Yawning Exactitude as in there they go again with their pretensions.

    There must be some immense collects of EYE somewhere in another dimension under the menu “bait used for exploitation.”

  • Sara, I wonder what kind of “wild” ideas you have about psychiatry, as put forth by your ex husband.

    For example that science is science, and one should report the truth rather than supporting ideology?

    That anyone would ever have to take part in such game theory manipulations as to whether there’s loss in supporting the truth: as if there’s loss when science is science rather than ideology.

  • Yeah but “horseshit” is potentially fertile….
    Let’s not insult animals. Give a gang of primates typewriters to type on, and considering evolution, before anything would come of it akin to the DSM, they might have evolved passed such discriminatory….. (I DID almost use that word now….)

    or bulls….

    I can’t believe this stuff, actually. It’s like an exercise in intelligence can one actually decipher how corrupt these “scientific” processes are that are exploited to make out it’s a “disease” when there are “symptoms,” exhibited by people not adapting or assimilating themselves to statistical based norms.

    It took me awhile just to make out once again how they come up with technical sounding procedures in order to excuse promoting incoherent logic and data. As for example how when a pair of twins are both found schizophrenic, that their total is 4 because it’s two people with a twin, but when there’s no concordance (only one is “schizophrenic”) then it’s just 2. There’s another holy mumbo jumbo name given for that, as if it’s scientific. Or anti-depressant trials where most people have to leave the trial who are in the control group, because of bad side effects and they aren’t counted, and anyone in the non control group getting “better” within the first couple of weeks is dismissed and not counted, and people already on psychiatric drugs are put into the trials, and people with side effects of the anti-depressants are given sedatives while on the trial, and yet with all of that and more it’s only a marginal improvement whose effectiveness wanes off after a few years and there’s more recycling, and none of the trials with bad outcomes were reported, and earlier antidepressants always had better effect as do no drugs when a perspective on time or side effects are looked at. Or putting people already on and physically addicted to a substance in a trial for another such substance and when anyone in the non control group is having withdrawal symptoms that ANYONE on such a drug would have when abruptly taken off then it’s a symptom of the disease rather than withdrawal symptoms (by this time going over all of this I already have psychiatric symptoms because it’s overloading to try to remember all of it, let alone infuriating and saddening, and these lies are what anyone with a psychiatric diagnosis is told also, and would you know the truth it’s already extremely distressing and overloading having encountered such to be confronted with the same)… I have to clear my mind to remember what else I’ve already encountered (One lady I was a buddy to had been drugged up to find it made her catatonic and didn’t help and it took her years to be able to read a whole page and be able to cognate what kind of mumbo jumbo was going on when what made her sick was made out to be a cure)…..

    Oh yeah, and how at first they tried to make out that clear signs of how their medications caused brain damage instead was a sign of the disease, which had to be straightened out against their will the same as the warning that anti-depressants can make people homicidal and or suicidal.

    That all being only part of it, the “magic” of psychiatric drugs.

    And in reality, you’re only dealing with normal responses to life that don’t fit with a fear based populace that are terrified of exhibiting signs of non conformity. And one isn’t allowed to articulately point out what’s going on with the “society” to begin with when it causes such normal responses that expose there might be something going on that needs attention.

    What’s sad is when people are trying to still fit into such a society, even when they are rebelling against psychiatry. A society that uses fear based trauma as a mind control method thus making that out to be how one maintains harmony, and thus has a whole arsenal of people trained to traumatize others that are rewarded when they do so and thus can become pathologically mesmerized with hurting others and yet these people are used in order to “discipline” society, is it a wonder that such a “society” doesn’t acknowledge signs of trauma, even when it comes from behavior it says is illegal such as child abuse?

    And then when things change without such a need of training others to “justly” traumatize others, this again isn’t acknowledged.

  • Can someone tell me whether I translated this correctly (don’t know what to call such jargon as “scientology” is already taken so might call it “scientism”);

    “The most common sample size for these studies is 25 people. At that size, if you conducted two different studies, they could easily each reach the opposite conclusion about the correlation between brain findings and mental health.
    “High sampling variability in smaller samples frequently generates strong associations by chance,” the researchers write.

    The established method for dealing with this is to increase the threshold for statistical significance (called a multiple-comparison correction). However, according to the researchers, this can actually backfire in these small MRI studies because it inadvertently ensures that only the largest—and thus, least likely to be true—brain differences end up passing the significance test and then being published.”

    What that’s saying is that you can keep on testing a sample of 25 people looking for a social construct that without “scientistically correlating data” remains a social construct rather than a disease, and that as long as you up the correlation then it’s considered more accurate. In other words, one can go back to “hysteria” and women with red hair, and as long as one keeps testing samples of 25 long enough, and one finds after any number of tries, perhaps 800,000,000 that are all discarded till one gets a sample where 19 women with red hair all have “hysteria” that there’s a genetic correlation with the red hair gene and hysteria, but this wouldn’t be the case with 14 or 15 women out of 25. And it helps that there is a great difference of hair types, because if more people had red hair the sample would be more representative of the whole were all red haired people looked at, which doesn’t meant that that’s applied here, because then were a larger group available to test that would have to be used instead of whether any smaller group that’s separated from a larger group with the same variable does have said correlation when the correlation threshold has been upped to be used in the smaller group rather than that there’s no correlation in the larger group when the threshold is smaller. Neither could one dismiss any testing that doesn’t have the correlation, although with the same variables.

    I’m just curious statistically at what threshold one would end up getting a correlation for anything remotely possible using a smaller group with an “increased threshold for statistical significance,” and at how many repetitions of a smaller group with an “increased threshold for statistical significance” one would eventually make any potential supposed “significant” connection. I mean potentially also, given that for some reason the rules haven’t been bent so much such that humans have said alleged disease (that without correlation only remains a social construct) because they are really monkeys or lower forms of life such as savages (this isn’t a statement against monkeys or savages), or that so and so has said disease because another “human or monkey or savage” goes flying around on a broomstick at night and has a friend with a tail, horns, and is quite red of complexion (although this “used” to be science, this is presently outdated?); I mean when is it possible to prove (using math and potential regarding probabilities) that a group of monkeys with type writers actually wrote Shakespeare’s plays (or the Bible) because this upped statistical threshold was repeated often enough. And would psychiatrists go looking for these amazing creatures given a time machine to go such trillions of years into the future where it would have somehow occurred or should this be illegal being that it’s abusive to the monkeys, or does it give the psychiatrists something better to do?

    THAT way one could simply use math, and might discover that monkeys with type writers, given a trillion years or so could have written everything known to man, or (given probability theories) that when looking for “psychiatric” data enough amongst divergent groups one could make up any diagnosis one wanted to entertain, and with present psychiatric research find this “correlation.” And what limitations are there on this “scientism” given that sadness or grief are psychiatric symptoms, or not wanting to pay attention in school, or not conforming to social norms, or not wearing clothes, or being traumatized by trauma…..?

    This REALLY is just amazing stuff….

    WOW!!!!!

    Thus ANYTHING unusual enough to occur in a small enough group, once under inspection enough to find a big enough correlation of anything that can be seen as a psychiatric disease: TADA this becomes a correlation at large!?

  • I have my own art, and also a “diagnosis.” Here’s a piece a wrote just because I and a group of facebook friends had been trying to help someone with a “borderline personality disorder” diagnosis, and this music started playing through my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxyjGyzfFGY And then there’s this whole youtube site, although I haven’t added anything for more than ten years really, although there’s stuff I’m getting ready to start recording: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxZBenrqh6lr8iyzk5rDNXg

    This isn’t just the looting of art from “crazy” people, it’s the looting of whole cultures and societies. Art has become a commodity, an escape, a sensual product, “beauty” one can own (along with the artifice it takes on to become a commodity) rather than what it is meant to be, something spiritual that gives the soul and the spirit and emotions a home, and expresses that life has meaning beyond our attempt to control it.

    I’m sure that Mr. Charlie English thinks that he’s helping these poor crazy people, that writing a book assuming he’s promoting their art, and then ignoring as far as I can tell the whole hypocrisy that medical treatments proven to cause chemical imbalance, regarding illnesses that are said to have chemical imbalances although this is only alleged and hasn’t been proven, that what causes what is listed as the cause of a disease is allowed to be touted as appropriate compassionate healing and enforced. But this is how it always goes. The same as how everyone assumes that the whole congregation in a church, school or any other “public” even being clothed (with appropriate fashion, costume or uniform) that it’s a decent gathering. The whole thing is so ridiculous that I make such a jab about it.

    I read this article a few days ago, and find I have to fight the tendency regarding my own art to not give up in sharing it, the kind of discrimination going on, that it can’t just be art for its own merit, but that it has to be dressed up in proper social regalia before even being considered. There’s an article regarding Mr. English’s book in the guardian where it’s even speculated whether one can tell whether someone is schizophrenic by their art. Can they find the weapons of mass destruction corporate media touted as the excuse to invade Iraq, although they were never found, is that to be found in a painting as well? Or the holy grail, or the formula for eternal life, or…. I mean let’s be serious about this, if you can find signs that someone has a disease that in reality is only an alleged condition yet to be proven to exist as a disease (otherwise poverty is also a chemical imbalance rather than a social construct) then why not go for the money and find everything else one wants to believe in but doesn’t want to investigate!?

    As a composer pianist, I won a local competition to have my music performed 2001. Symphony musicians and the head of a college music department played and sang my music. Before that I really only was “disabled” and having not given up on music still composed it. Having a keyboard and a computer, when completely at a loss for what to do in life, and rather than simply exploding in aggravated distress at being completely disenfranchised I could go to the computer, start composing, and would feel a white light surround me that would calm me and give my reflexes a place to be active, and I “composed” music, although I might argue it was the mind itself, or nature, or God, but really just a place someone could go rather than being assimilated into a society which really mostly saw art as a diversion, a sensual commodity rather than an expression of the human soul.

    That was 2001, but since then, and bringing my piano playing abilities out of the grave, I started performing again. Just myself, little free concerts, and then just at my own place, stuff recorded for a community TV channel. I still am quite confounded at the amount of discrimination one encounters. And a lot of it simply is that as an artist one is supposed to be a commodity, and also having a “diagnosis” and not being secure in oneself enough to not be driven “crazy” by insensitive behavior; people can be highly exploitive, and even unprofessional and harassing, but when this effects you when you don’t know how to respond, then if they can make you out to be inappropriate or crazy, they can continue being exploitive and unprofessional. I was really happy 2001 to find an outlet for music I didn’t know would ever see the light of day, but totally unprepared for the amount of bizarre discriminatory, insensitive, confusing, exploitive and corrupt, dishonest and even illegal nasty responses one could get was one really involved with what I thought would be having one’s art acknowledged.

    And in essence it was really just — art was — really just a place I could go to find a place for my emotions, my spirit and my soul to have a home and express itself, or find space to be, for what one might say “God” had given me. It had become nothing but that for me, after I had been put in this space of having an alleged disease. That’s where I could go and breath again. When I got the diagnosis, I have to add that I had then already, from actually the highest commodities of “fame” in classical music, gotten attention out of nowhere (I knew so and so would show up in my life somehow, and he was putting the furniture into a new neighbor’s house because he had met her when playing for their orchestra), and just before that had had a whole year where a whole group of spirits had spoken to me through a trance medium or other mediums (Chopin, Mozart’s mother, Tchaikovsky, Vivaldi, Stravinsky, Clara Haskil, Bach, Nadia Boulanger) and so I already was in a field of thought that was simply art, NOT how one is to be to make it and be part of current exploitative trends. I can’t say that dealing with the mediums wasn’t highly confusing, in comparison with the spirits, regarding exploitative behavior, and I really had no idea how aggressively exploitative the current music world could be at the level of what I encountered out of nowhere, thinking it would be different, either. I didn’t even know what was going on. I had had a whole social falling out, and extreme discrimination going on regarding the mediums and the spiritualist churches I had been involved with. I hadn’t had a good childhood at all, either. Both parents being “psychologists” had a whole gamut of ideas regarding how to analyze children, how to control them and how to make themselves out to be more objective and understanding while not really attending to their children in ways normal “unenlightened” families did and do. I couldn’t really encounter simple difficulty in my life without encountering such stress from never having been nurtured to express myself enough to understand my own instincts, that I lost it. the whole matrix of being able to navigate through to what one really thought wasn’t there, only the stress that would I not think said way I’d meet with harsh disabling criticism. Then my mother got a psychiatrist friend of hers to diagnose me to get me on disability, mostly because she didn’t want to believe that what really happened to cause me distress had really happened, and being on disability, although it gave me the space to allow music and the other arts to express themselves without having to be commodities one gets paid for, the neglect and the immense confusion regarding the lies of the drug companies and diagnosis, and social paranoia and stigmatizing, and consequently having more difficulty because of trauma from all of that added to it….. how is one supposed to know what’s going on?

    I have somehow come out of it. I don’t know how. I don’t know how I statistically have survived while most people like me would be stuck in a foster care facility having no civil liberties anymore, other than having to act appreciative that their mind is disabled with “medications” and that they are cared for when their nature is suppressed and they have become commodities for the drug companies, the psychiatric establishment and all of the “good will” that believes their lies and disinformation.

    And it’s like one would get more respect would one believe the lies. As Charlie English goes on about, it would seem.

    A local psychiatric facility had music of Beethoven and art of Van Gogh on a commercial, announced that these people both had psychiatric illnesses, and actually advertised their ability to “fix” people up. Why not write a book about what’s wrong with all the great artists, and list their diagnosis, if not during their life posthumously. Why not cater to the fear people have of art that’s so mesmerizing that people don’t understand that it doesn’t come from people that model the morals of society. There had to be something wrong with Mozart because he was happy simply that it was music, and knew its worth beyond the world’s way of thinking, as if there hasn’t been enough guff going on about that……

    It’s called what happens, and life, and how people survive trauma… If you think it’s sane, you’re REALLY not paying attention.

  • This is quite a labyrinth of let’s not say anything, much…
    To begin with, what psychiatry, mostly, does is take whoever wants to play their game, to dowse their mind and turn off any depth to experience and perspective that would take away from a consumer oriented superficiality, a social matrix that rewards pretension and the addictions that are mistaken for fashion and social bonding: and then rewards them with pats on the head, cupcakes in foster care facilities, peer support credentials that put permanent seemingly un-removable masks on their face of smiles and goodwill that anyone else can become part of such a privileged minority and ignoring what the drugs really do and lit up with their disability.

    Everyone else, simply endeavoring to be human has to deal with an onslaught and any natural reaction they have can fall under the discriminatory eyes social workers, psychiatrists, social engineers and other pundits of we-will-keep-you-alarmed-about-being-human-if-you-trade-it-for-our-fear-based-machinery have and bond with each other regarding all their paranoia stamped with approval by themselves and the machinery controlling them. Such natural reactions then are termed dangers (see above article referring to whether someone is deemed in danger, whether they really are, and skipping totally what the “medications” would have to do with it, as if funneling them into a system that statistically causes more suicides because of the medications is going to help them just because they have a “diagnosis” or have been identified as “suicidal”), any human natural response from someone with a diagnosis or “concern” becomes alarming symptoms, they can be embellished with a whole hoard of presumptions and lies and whether such is going on is completely overlooked because there’s this “danger” and acting vigilant is more important than knowing whether there is any danger, while adding up perceived dangers becomes more important to finding out whether there is danger or whether seeing what’s going on as danger is more dangerous in the long run then looking for “danger.” And if you become paranoid, and believe their lies, then you get to be the one, even listed above as getting the treatment they need. And if someone doesn’t believe the lies, won’t go along with predatory offering, ends up being met with “we give up you are hopeless,” and finds freedom, and in reality simply being alive and still walking the earth to show there’s a different way, they then are those that “didn’t” receive needed “treatment!?”

    And what does this “concern” add up to for “treatment!?”

    It really would be nice to read something that’s not going around in circles negating those not interested in the “rewards” of going around in circles as if they can be dismissed from actual regard concerning who truly is helping and who isn’t.

  • I have to add, by the way, that CONSTANTLY trying to read stuff on this site I am BOMBARDED with statements so prefabricated regarding defining sides of a debate, repeated over and over again, that I start failing to be able to see who actually has made an argument and who has refuted it.

    THIS article is so compounded with such that is seems to have no base to it: One could take out the identity of both sides, take them to the hospital, give them “treatment” to be whichever other side needs it (forced coercive “detox,” or forced coercive psychiatric “treatment,”) and you’d have the next tier of it, both having gotten affirmed by the other side as being healed, while it’s really gotten nothing but worse, more compounded, more complicated, and totally subversive.

    And will the insurance pay for it both sides are demanding…

  • Since “A Spoon full of Sugar,” thanks To Julie Andrews squealing around like the mice that Jesus supposedly couldn’t take care of as the Pied Piper, being a joke not passed: “So a man ran over a cat, and told the owner, who when offered by him to replace it asked whether he was good at catching mice…..”

    I won’t indulge in the recipe to keep Jesus at work, but this is ridiculous.

    When someone has been infiltrated with psychiatric abuse called treatment, and they are being observed constantly, to simply tell them there’s no stigma is like saying AGAIN that their withdrawal symptoms don’t exist. That when their mind tells them what will happen if they don’t titrate, and that if they just stop taking those “pills” that “medicine,” that then they have betrayed these radical extremists here putting forth they anyone not taking up the gun and sliver is betraying mankind.

    AGAIN as if thought has nothing to do with it.

    I’ve HAD IT MYSELF, that when I thought stuff was going on which was too much in the periphery for institutions to stop their dishonesty, and simply contact me about what I WITH THEIR HONESTY could have seen regarding sorting out what was improvised symbolism and what was activity THEY were hauling out against seeing what the symbolism represented. Which it did. And which exposed them. WITHOUT such feedback, what is one to do!?

    And how many ways is there stigma

    1) From the people saying you aren’t to allow stigma when it’s regarding taking what you need to keep from being caught by those saying there’s stigma. Only to be caught and used for FORMULAIC fodder of another sort for those saying they are rebelling. See, so and so suffered from YOUR TREATMENT, although if we hadn’t harranged them with loud inflexible noise they might have been able to listen to their own guidance, survived, and then helped us by relating to those we throw vitriol at.

    2) Stigma that you actually see stuff that needs working out, but those who could clear up enough of the JUNK they throw your way are too spoiled rotten thinking they are making way in the system to acknowledge the — IN COMPARISON — little things they could help you clear up did they respond to you without stigma in regards the total lack of concern and mobs of junk they equate with servitude for the masses.

    3) And then there’s stigma beyond all of it that there’s another way where thought it thought, and doesn’t change, and remains free, and isn’t some concoction of either side of the war regarding chemical imbalances and treatment, where one simply listens without having to breed another with the good will of creating cleavages, riffs, hostile boundaries, territorial disputes and then weaponry on all sides to keep every single territory claiming it’s a community from allowing harmony and peace, whether it’s military, medical, religious, political, economic, philosophical or any other ic, al, ous or ism….. all or some or one, or more of it claiming they are the bonding force[S].

    Well OK, I will tell you the recipe, it’s goose berries……

  • To begin with, I’m sure they have some rigid protocol going on looking for those who think it’s a man’s (a woman’s a dog’s an angel’s a cat’s the mice and rat’s: rabbits, coyotes and deer fox antelope and Penelope herselve’s) duty to be there to herald new and improved care for themselves and others that will come from overlooking anything that points out it might not actually be what they have invested in just because it’s part of what goes on in a hospital. The rest being so unsafe that they themselves might have to deal with what they project on others not going round and round insulting circles.

    And it’s simple advertising. Who actually is paying the magazine to have ads in it? Again, psychic blinders for anyone who decides that that’s what needs to be done, gangs in outer space await you just as long as you don’t have too many light years to traverse, or you’d have to stop going round in circles.

    You aren’t going to get anywhere with those people, as little as trying to get the zoo to stop putting animals in cages and calling that entertainment. Or Hollywood having cars blow up, and stereotyping bad guys to the newest fashion, while acting like they are past their old ones, or how candy companies act like the stress caused to follow one’s thought thanks to their enhancement of your “taste” buds, that that’s building strength and commitment, just because it’s part of all of that (going to church, having birthday parties, holidays and other celebrations, and going “out”). You aren’t going to get anywhere with those people when you go into their “space” and start yanking about what they don’t want to see. I think what you need to do is YOURSELF do things differently, and that might attract more than the double edged sword of trying to use a system that’s not working to change what won’t.

    How long does it take to bang one’s head against a brick wall before one realizes it’s a brick wall? And then stop banging your head and it’s not a brick wall anymore. Sit in your own space, and they’ll see they have none, as much as they accuse you of invading there’s because you have your own, which they think there’s a lack of.

    I’m not saying don’t look at evidence, and gently point out the flaws. But let them go on, and on and on, and wait, and when there’s a lull, just gently point out once again the simple lack in evidence. And then the laugh, because they think there’s some great flaw of logic on your part, because you point something out akin to that The King isn’t really in charge, not the CEO, not even who’s on the white porcelain throne having received the most votes. Let them laugh, and then just quietly and gently point out how you don’t see there’s loss, but instead gain that doesn’t require loss, and…….

    There are only two choices:
    1) you simply are human
    2) being human is something that wasn’t given, and in being human others will steal it from you because it can’t exist in them when it’s recognized for what it is

  • With the lack of outlets:
    Having just put a wooden sailboat kit together, to see how it actually works as an a-bottle-boat when the flat side is down to rest on the rim, and the other side has a peg in it to keep it from pushing off of it [the rim of the bottle], and wondering what this has to do with a boat in a bottle (take out “in a”)….

    People called “autistic” used to have all form of outlets. They could make boats in bottles, they could paint backwards from the mirror leaving it to be used properly in a creative manner rather than to coach Snow white how to please her man, they could add up how many stars makes magic, and why the sky gets dark at night, and they could save the little ones from fear of the dark, they could play with the horses outside and smell the grasses that held their stocks wound into baskets, they could remember what it was to feel the darkness of illness leave and the blossoming of each breath renewed with the smell of what blessing of nature’s that healed them, they could look at stones, knowing where they came from rather than have to answer stupid question like why the “chicken” crossed the road (is there a difference between gravel and feed?), which in these times is insulted would it not, then it would be a “chicken,” while bereaved of stating that would it, it wouldn’t be what its name is used for………

    And thus we have antistigma, “roll call” for who if not present to take their “meds” gets to have the police pick them up, or have to deal with the government needing info about area of-the-number-of-states-minus-one……

  • There’s also how after, for example, Columbine, one couldn’t even be distressed regarding what should have been known (see Mark Taylor… no that ISN’T Any Taylor the gay porn star who reincarnated from allowing Dizz-knee to put his beautiful story Bambi on film, I think a book that most of us in childhood read and were brought to tears, I know I did; and after-thoughts of vaulted spaces I wasn’t accustomed with enough to be comfortable with unless brought to tears, but heh know it would be an add for antidepressants with the book, a commercial for them when shown on TV and a whole array of pumped up solicitations coming your way did that not assault your senses with their “art.”)…
    No that wasn’t Andy, that was Mark Taylor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCO0AN8PJmA
    Who was put in a foster care, forced drugged till he couldn’t detail what should be known, after asking whether they had sold any of this book at a local bookstore, and then thought he could relax by pacing at the mall: https://www.amazon.com/Asked-God-Answered-Columbine-Miracle/dp/1598863495/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1VQWRGX6I8N50&keywords=i asked god answered mark taylor&qid=1644078918&sprefix=i aksed god answered mark taylor,aps,404&sr=8-1

    And the bullet he had that the medical establishment couldn’t remove did go into the spheres of forgiveness [disappeared] when he visited a place Christian enough that it is something else one can’t talk about..

    And then to top it off, one even has this CONTINUATION of institutional abuse with one woman whose son was a perpetrator, and who I was told by someone with a foster care facility in that area, came there to talk because he had been bullied by jocks, had been told to go to the Sheriff, who told him to go back to the principle of the school, etc. It wasn’t acknowledged, there’s signs he was raped by a police man; and when his “medications” were changed to Luvox, he told his doctor that he was having homicidal thoughts towards everyone: his family, his friend, his girlfriend…..

    THAT would have been exposed, but the drug companies bought up that case against them, and then you have this absolutely pathetic disgusting further abuse, institutional abuse, corruption, deception, by his mother https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXlnrFpCu0c

    More than ten million views and comments are turned off…..

    While defending the major cause of the horrible incident, and getting away with it, the drug companies continue with more lies……

    She does a TED talk https://www.ted.com/talks/sue_klebold_my_son_was_a_columbine_shooter_this_is_my_story?language=en

    She has a WIKI page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sue_Klebold

    And for example, there’s a whole list of healers, that work with the same energies that removed Mark Taylor’s bullet, that spared him, that would have prevented the whole incident, and they aren’t acknowledged at all. Have no Wiki page.

    Michael Stellitano, Charlie Goldsmith, Gene Egidio, Brother Gregorio, Father Joshua philipino healer same as Gregorio, Leaholof (was Jesus mother his prior incarnation as Manasseh son of Joseph the dreamer),

    Ask the Royal Family (William and them) they know about these people, they don’t mention them.

    All I did one day is play with my own memory, wondering whether Prince William with Chekhov was playing around making explicit material in a bomb shelter of a Meijer store (that’s all I could make out of the possible surveillance at self checkout, where it asks if your basket is empty); when while sitting and delicately separating the layers of knapkins or other papers used for drying one gets “everywhere” and I keep in a pocket for later use after once having fallen for it to then find out you can draw on them or paint or whatever, dip it in wax and it looks like parchment: so I’m doing that, separating layers, and I’m met with a Sherrif [again] and partner regarding that I was acting “weird” (I knew they didn’t really have a bomb shelter actually, I just asked to see how they would respond) had asked whether they had a bomb shelter and they were concerned about mass shootings.

    I gave them my phone [number] so they could listen to me tell “Thomas” how I didn’t really like that Yanni looking thing in the box, but liked the box (it was pizza), who would be Thomas Linley (Taylor Lautner) who has fallen in love with me, and has patiently waited for more than 300 [years]…. the poor Sherrif (who in his free time started that whole scene with Tim Skyler as snow white missing a dwarf for TIM gay porn) he had to tell me that he had a conditioned response when I went for the ID, which he did for his own safety. I can be thankful HE wasn’t an antidepressants. As he then kept asking me so many times whether I was leaving, I knew they had to being drilled on that (as if I still was going to who knows what) as well; and then remarked how full by bag was (I would have not neglected to tell them they could look all through it as much as they wanted, but already was holding back regarding anything about drugs and mass shootings)…

    As the Muzak played on, and I still can’t type here without incredibly distracting noises, like cars coming by droning the insensitivity of those using the wheels….

    But heh, I’m sure Madame Klebold still has her nice [quiet] suburrbion house, gets published as soon as it comes off her placidly FDA intelligensia fingers, while smiling and feeling self important as soon as someone else wants to believe in her lies and doesn’t ask why the drug companies haven’t reported what kind of assault they accomplished on her son, who is fortunately out of the picture having to deal with such a person that still calls herself the mother of someone who committed suicide how many years ago, because he was “raised” by her!?

    Oh, and I did find out where Chekhov is….

  • Dear Ashley, there’s one thing you haven’t mentioned. The USA is a country addicted to fast food, I think they actually defended it worldwide from being exposed (see court case against whether Mc Donalds is healthy), and it seems people in the US are more accustomed to picking up their food somewhere where they can skip going to the kitchen themselves. Which is an art form [kitchen work] as well as the rest that you mentioned.

    I’m quite a fanatic in the kitchen, but it’s only now, after having my own place for 13 plus year that I’m able to maneuver in the kitchen feeling comfortable at home there. For example making bread (sourdough) or also fermenting anything with too much phytic acid (ferment from raw peanuts on blanched ones that are easier to get now) to augment veggies, fruits and dairy produce. But what really gets me is that in foster care facilities, in soup kitchens, in boarding schools and even in jails, making their own meals seems to be left to people who…….

    And those are often the lowest paid jobs. A professor at a college, a minister, a computer programmer, a thief for Monsanto and the rest all get WAY too much money in comparison to kitchen workers.

    And I bet that most of the people despairing as to what to do, were they given a chance to play around with even the stuff that wall street sends into the fires, in order to keep the prices up [see here: where they lied about natural disasters https://www2.ohchr.org/english/issues/food/docs/Briefing_Note_02_September_2010_EN.pdf or how the government actually pays to have food destroyed, when it would bring down the price, and then there’s by some miracle the fact that gas https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/gas-prices.asp it isn’t considered a commodity, so there’s no futures on it… but there’s THAT also, alternative ways of providing for transportation. Think of all of the old Hobos (the ones poor Ernst Hemingway knew, and how he ended up quipping about shock therapy being such a great cure that one lost the patient, and didn’t have enough neurological matrix left to mention that then it’s even greater, one can say that it should have been implemented earlier)…. think of them being given the chance to play around with new ways to transport oneself, and those who are set up in a foster care, offered a cupcake a pat on the head, and denied access to making their own meals, new things to do with food that isn’t mainstream FDA approved dietary pillage…..

    Imagine that the people, all of them, that they were allowed to play around with news ways of [as in for-give zero point over unity the fish and the loaves ) doing all sorts of things…..

  • I have to add, actually, that prior to this, when I got more of a place for myself, I had talked with Anna, Mozart’s mother. Who I call Anna, and she likes the name enough, or somewhat enough….
    She had, about 33 years ago, suddenly channeled through a medium who was trying to give messages, but then she told me she had to put him in a trance because he was doubting the information. And I think it was just an emotional thing. But given the situation, it caused problems, quite a bit. The medium started acting like Voldemort in a way. I was told by another spirit talking through him that he had been “blown away” by the love between me and Anna, and then he started trying to control the energies. The last time I talked to her through him, she left saying: “No, Anna is not from the past,” and then when he woke up, he was going on that she was stronger than another entity. And again, he didn’t understand it. Then he started all sorts of power plays and resentments.

    So, I had asked her about this when I finally had my own place and I did this on my own not through a medium, and was quite upset, because it was more than a bit harrowing trying to figure out what was going on, and she finally said: “I just wanted a family.” And then I knew that she never had one, you see. And thus the tragedy with her father came out. I DIDN’T actually know that her mother was so abusive. I knew that she had spent most of her childhood in bed, and was even known as the girl that was always sick. And later in life, as Wolfgang’s mother, she died of consumption, again because of the stress also, still resonating from her youth.

    And she’s my other half, we’re together, so this idea of investment is going to come up, further more you can see what investments in psychiatric diagnosis, and drugs, what that can lead to. And more stuff STILL regarding homosexuality.

    This whole trial recently with Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, and the only way I see (I think I’m allowed to, whether that’s considered just opinion or not) that there’s any excuse for him denying all of the abuse, is that he doesn’t remember, because of the psychiatric drugs (administered because his “psychiatrist” decided he was bipolar) and then abusing psychiatric drugs with street drugs, and alcohol. And then also smoking, and he was demanding red bulls after another binge we all got to hear. All over the TV and Internet because he FORCED Amber heard to testify. And I believe her, which I don’t think is illegal. An abusive alcoholic that has blackouts safe behind closed doors, who has promised to change so his partner or friend is preventing his behavior from becoming known so he doesn’t get into trouble, or even doesn’t record it if necessary that he doesn’t, The alcoholic is now excused WITHOUT it being pointed out what alcohol does (another PRIME TIME commodity), or the rest of the substances that cause such behavior. How many school shootings are associated with psychiatric drugs and the information is withheld for “medical” reasons!? He [Johnny Depp] was coming off of Oxycontin, he was on Zyprexa, Adderal and Neurontin, he also smoked weed and cigarettes constantly, and drank more than he even remembered, and did all sorts of street drugs. I think that with the psychiatric drugs added, that he started exhibiting fugue states; or just simply when he couldn’t remember, or only had glimpses of it, that because he didn’t want to believe that he would do such things, that the psychiatric drugs “appeased” his desire to not remember, same as the whole court case now has done. He had a traumatic youth, and was used to dowsing his feelings, so in one way it’s understandable, but he isn’t anymore a child, even has children. He’s also not the most honest person either. Says so himself, that you can count on it that he lies. So we are to believe he’s not into not remembering, or even decides it’s no one’s business and then denies. No, I don’t believe Amber Heard was lying. Do I have the right to say that, or is that defamatory as well!? In fact, as it stands the whole English court system is defamatory, when a publication could defend itself, and had enough money to get lawyers. Amber didn’t have that anymore, from all of the cases she was forced to testify in, and she NEVER wanted to testify about any of it. If he thinks that the whole world is enamored of the American Court system, which has put more people per populace in jail than any other country, has put numerous people to death who were afterwards proven to be innocent, or even that there was more than a question regarding their guilt, when intelligent people saw clearly that there was more than enough doubt regarding their guilt (people not spending all their time getting their “fun time” dehumanizing someone on youtube, twitter, tiktok or the local bar), if he thinks that the whole world is enamored of the US judicial system, and that he has reinstated his position as a great actor, um…… I watched the whole trial, which was setup as a publicity stunt. Amber’s team didn’t want it on TV, didn’t want a jury, Johnny’s team actually played to the public vitriol with what I would call childish except it’s an insult to children, this na na NA you’re lying stuff. Turning any evidence around. fixating on details that could be blown up out of context, and misrepresenting them to begin with. It seems the problem with Amber’s lawyers is that they are decent people not trying to demonize anyone. When Johnny Depp actually stated that he thought texts that were sent from his phone weren’t from him, first saying: “I don’t know that you typed that up last night.” because he clearly didn’t remember, and when Amber’s lawyer decently stated: “You can be assured we didn’t type that up last night,” in a very calm empathic manner. Johnny then went on about other people could have been using his phone, and it was dropped. HIS lawyers would have had a field day: “Could you explain how we could have done this!? Is this akin to your being an expert on the difference between dog shit and human feces, that having nothing to do with resentments so severe against your wife that you ALSO texted about drowning her and then raping her dead body to make sure she’s dead!? Are you as sure what type of feces was in a bed, as to whether we typed this up last night!? COULD you explain how you could say you don’t know that we typed this up last night” And the rest of it. When he doesn’t remember what he said in the prior trial regarding whether he was drunk, he was being “nice.” That HE blows up the whole corporate media with stuff Amber was actually not wanting to report, this is all because SHE ever got a restraining order (and actually was told by her lawyer she needed to, rather than she wanted to), and had actual bruises. That of course is contorted out of shape. She had to show she had bruises to get a restraining order, otherwise she was covering them up, although there were multiple times they were still evident. But when SHE is enough in the public eye, that somehow TMZ knows she’s getting a restraining order (it could have simply been people following her, and noticed she went to where you get such a thing) then she supposedly alerted them, when she wouldn’t even know how to do that. But she can’t say she doesn’t know how they knew, and then she’s supposedly AGAIN lying!

    And the tragedy regarding the truth is that Amber KNEW Johnny wasn’t there. According to her, as she testified, while he was raping her, and molesting her, and bruising her, she could see that he wasn’t there, and said that IN COURT while testifying about stuff she never wanted to. She said he wasn’t there, it was all black behind his eyes, and she tried to get him to look at her, so that he would be there. That is wasn’t him. She was trying to get him to look at her so that he would become himself again. And then he promised he would change, and then he didn’t.
    And then she HAS TO start producing evidence that she never wanted to, BECAUSE Johnny started all these court cases, and she has more than most cases of domestic abuse would need, and actually exposing EXACTLY what the oped said, rather than there was proof of defamation.
    So now, Trump can get away with threatening to sue whoever for defamation. Johnny’s friend what’s his name is already doing that. I read that a lady had to tell two clients that if they mention their abuser, even without mentioning their name or their profession, that they can be sued.

    Amber never mentioned him in the oped. She also never actually alleged any violence. She said: “I became a public figure representing domestic abuse.” If you watched the trial, you would clearly see that there’s enough proof Johnny was abusive. Verbally, emotionally, and then there’s also to many people enough proof that he was violent, but that only came out because Johnny FORCED her to. She actually was protecting him, and thought he would change. But STILL there’s more proof than in most domestic violence cases, only we’re dealing with a commodity depending on an image, and someone who does so many controlled substances that it’s questionable whether he could remember at all how his trauma comes out due to the substance abuse. And then there’s a litany of people pointing out how paranoid he gets. When he starts using. She also said: “how institutions protect men accused of abuse.” rather than how institutions protect abusers. That’s AGAIN proven, added to that social media. And the headline “I spoke up against sexual violence,” which she didn’t write at all it was the Washington Post, she only tweeted the link to that article. And THAT is listed as if she “published it.” It COULD simply be that she didn’t want to be with a guy that tweeted about drowning her and fucking her dead body to make sure she was dead. To get away from such a guy IS speaking against sexual violence. Added to that the vulgar tweets referring to sexual organs he uses. Simply getting a divorce from HIM IS speaking against sexual violence.

    But HEH a jury that isn’t sequestered, is already in a court room that’s some sort of mobbing of Johnny Depp fanatics, inside and out, with a poor woman that’s already suffering PTSD and can’t express herself because of that, and thus isn’t all “calm and sedated” along with vitriol as soon as she steps out the courtroom, in real life, and in virtual reality….

    I’ll tell you something about Johnny Depp.

    He ALSO was all obsessed with “Nijinsky,” and REPEATEDLY referred to me as such, when in REALITY I have never had any direct conversation with him about any memories regarding that. It was SO ABSURD that when I went to a bar, and he was already smashed, when I sat down next to him, he acknowledged me with a business like nod, and THEN he started talking to the girl on this left about “Nijinsky:” “He’s vegetarian,” and honestly I don’t know what else. The girl probably didn’t know who he was talking about, and only replied with a dismissive: “People who are vegetarians,” as if this means they are lacking in something (strength). Johnny then pulled the Popey pose https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Popeye-The-Sailor-Man-Popeye-Rush-for-Spinach-Popeye-Village-T-shirt-by-mohamedht/52355058.EJUG5 something he had unaccountably seen in childhood. Popey’s strength comes from spinach incidently, so it’s not any theme to start confirming that vegetarians lack in strength, but Johnny went off, and last I saw was vigorously proselytizing and philosophizing towards people who neither had any notion much what he was going on about, nor much interest. When I read Amber Heard trying to describe his behavior, when she says she ended up with a bruise from a cell phone thrown at her, and described how Johnny first acted like a pitcher revving up his throw, I saw the same flippant behavior. That’s my memory, honestly. I’m not allowed to have it, because someone else was so drunk he couldn’t remember?

    And back to the topic of the article these are responses to:

    Then another time, I had two cards for free coffees at a coffee house, and took a friend there, who didn’t drink coffee, so we acted like we had to sneak a coke in there for her, which went bouncing under the table, once we sat down. I was trying to secretly get it to her (as if we were being watched), and then I must have misjudged the room underneath the table. I had already felt quite on edge about something, and wondered why, but had no idea till, after the bumping of the carbonation under the table, I looked to my left, and there Johnny Depp was sitting on a chair, and he says to me (word for word):
    “Nijinsky, lick my asshole,” which was meant as some dear thing he wanted me to do for him, a sexual desire. And THAT was something he said while completely sober. So he should remember, but he’s so under the influence, that one can wonder whether his memory is intact anymore: or whether it’s in limbo for him to allow it back in, or whether he wouldn’t be honest, to begin with. Or when honesty starts dawning or creeping back in it’s dowsed with see list already mentioned of controlled substances.
    No, I didn’t respond to it. Even though he sounded like what before or after became his Willie Wonka. And AGAIN, like Brad Pitt, he can do the role of a gay person that no gay person could do. Or then, being more than 20 years ago, couldn’t. It was all over the news years ago that Brad Pitt wanted to do a gay role, although no gay person could; and then he wouldn’t marry till gays could, but we have to now hear constantly about his divorce proceedings, currently, ALSO involving court cases against his ex. He could do a gay role, just like Johnny has twice. Not someone that was out. But would he or any of a group of such be honest about their feelings, that they have fallen in love with guys, that they have had sex with guys, that they have had sexual desires for guys, THAT might save thousands if not millions of lives. That would tell people who live in a world where their idea of a partner isn’t welcomed in the open, where they can’t talk openly about their feelings, where they can’t even show their feelings, where they can’t even speak against discrimination without encountering abuse, to THOSE people to hear that such ikons have the SAME feelings they have, that would save lives, according to me. And THAT is way beyond the “morality” of I’m-for-gay rights-but-i’m-not-going-to-actually-talk-about-my-gay-side-because-it-would-get-in-the-way-of-the-commodity-of-my-image. That’s actually another thing that Amber Heard did do, she was completely open.

    And this wasn’t even my point, although it’s in context with this article I’m responding to.

    The point was that investing in psychiatric drugs, and treatment, according to me has brought a whole court case, that someone using psychiatric drugs to supposedly help his emotional issues, not only ends up not being able to consciously work them out, but they break out when he’s having a black out. Because he turned to other substances, legal and illegal.

    I don’t even know how this could be dismissed. If you do even a simple search for Zyprexa and alcohol, you get this:

    Alcohol and Zyprexa

    What Should I Avoid While Taking Olanzapine? Avoid drinking alcohol or using illegal drugs while you are taking olanzapine. They may decrease the benefits (e.g. worsen your confusion) and increase adverse effects (e.g. sedation) of the medication.

    That’s just Alcohol and Zyprexa. That isn’t also Adderal, Neurontin, coming off of Oxycontin or abusing it before hand (along with abusing the other psychiatric drugs), also hefty usage of street drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, also caffeinated drinks….

    How that can add up to someone that knows what they are doing? And that even when their conscious mind has concrete philosophy against violence, this doesn’t mean he doesn’t loses sight of what’s going fabricating a belief violence is necessary. Or thinks he’s acting. This is someone who has been trained to let fictional realities become something one believes in…..

    Apparently he paid this psychiatrist $100,000 a month to help him with substance abuse problems. Doesn’t seem like it worked.

    That’s different then, though. When you don’t do what your psychiatrist says. That’s being non-compliant, rather than “defamatory.”

    What a good boy you are Johnny…..

  • Just to be clear, since it’s quite a melange of stuff I’m going on about.

    The theme of Mozart’s mother’s father having lost everything, because he had made bad investments, that was just something that came up reflecting all of the paranoid behavior towards me. THAT is bad investing, in thought already, but that’s also how whole deceptive bubbles appear, not just social behavior (and then you can add this weird psychiatric idea of statistical based norms to what keeps it going, regardless that it’s paranoid, discriminatory or simply wrong) but also in economic bubbles. That’s how they create bubbles, stirring up volatility about something, creating paranoia, getting people to think they are under attack and investing in lies, which is mostly social, but in economic bubbles it’s trends that also have the same predatory bend to them. They are just trying to get people to invest in something, and keep it going until they know the bubble will burst, and then bail themselves out and run off with their money while everyone they conned is left with what they invested in suddenly plummeting in value.

    I WAS aware of such behavior going on, the simple thought mechanics of if, but was disassociating from the actual behavior; the dehumanizing paranoia. I thought that the yoga teacher was Mozart’s mother’s father, but I think she could have been his [Mozart’s mother’s father’s] wife, then. But then nine or ten years later, dealing with this infection: I actually didn’t get the tooth pulled or a root canal for five or six years, actually not following their recommendations, and was advised to get a root canal numerous times, but investing in spiritual healing the infection went away, and they now say to NOT get it pulled or a root canal, that they see no infection anymore. So, nine or ten years later I did run into someone that my mind recognized as Mozart’s mother’s father, and although I recognized him because he was rather restricted in what he tried to promote as what to invest in regarding the treatment, when I mentioned spiritual healing, he softened and had a truly adoring look in his eyes. Having such thoughts about his past lifetime, or what I thought was his (could have been simply symbolic) and knowing I had introduced something else to invest in which softened his whole demeanor in showing interest in, something that WAS worth investing in, I knew the infection would go away. In maybe a year or so I found a healer that helped me. And the infection is now gone.

    So this one idea of investments regarding someone who had lost everything, probably being conned by the economic system, and then the evolution of time, branches in the tree of reincarnation embracing miracles, lessons learned, how simply introducing something that’s worth investing in because it’s from a source that doesn’t lost in giving (spirit: for-give) that in ways was made out to be dangerous psychosis…..

    And it embraced so many things, one is going to get overloaded, and then all the paranoia was going on.

    There’s more stuff I could go on about, regarding hearing voices…..Because a spirit you all know regarding miracles had some thing to say, but I’ll maybe go on about that another time….

  • I’ll tell them a few things, and it’s questionable whether I would have to wear a mask.
    “You say that I’m a “schizophrenic,” or “schizo-effective” and yet that’s my very nature to be able to relate to imagery that’s too flexible to fit your ideas of reality-based, stuff not even imprisoned in the limitations you associate the physical work with.

    ONE EXAMPLE is how recently — and there are x-rays to prove it, but you’ll find some excuse that to you adds up rather than the simplicity of it’s reality — how I had a tooth infection, for maybe 5 or six years, and had enough of the dentists not telling me what I needed to know (all I needed to know was that I needed a bit to stop me grinding, which was traumatizing the ligatures on teeth that were bothering me because THEY had done some cosmetic work that wasn’t necessary, being that they are a center and student come there). It got infected, I went into alternative healing, actually changed my life, took phytic acid out of my diet, and then sugar, then found that colloidal silver sprayed with a water pik machine would keep it at bay (also chewing on garlic and ginger along with oregano oil), but it still was there. Then I got involved with a healer that works with energies beyond time, she has a healing sanctuary, and all one needs do is for twenty minutes twice a day sit and meditate (or once for forty), and indeed after the three months she specified, there was a healing spurt, and the infection got so much better that it basically wasn’t bothering me. I could do things I hadn’t been able to before, because it kept me feeling tired, queasy, there was pus or blood coming out regularly, if I went outside in the cold it hurt my gums.

    Just to let you know what kind of nonsense can go on would someone have the flexibility of thought that might allow a miracle…..

    WHY am I bringing all of this up, talking about being “schizo-effective.” Before the infection, maybe four years, I had been taking a parks and recreation class with apparently a VERY PARANOID social worker who was teaching yoga. I was sort of peripherally aware that she was paranoid, she would respond so defensively would I ask the simplest question, because I really wanted to learn yoga and loved it. When the apex of it came, her whole delusional state, I actually tripped everything up by trying to express something to the heads of Parks and Recreation about investments. Because Hollywood has such chase scenes, and there had been stuff going on with them, and WOW is that corrupt regarding image games. Same as that when this paranoid “social worker” can get her friends to think I’m in love with her – I was in love with yoga NOT her, I’m also gay, and she was quite repulsively coy, which I actually found amusing, like reading a character description in a book, so I might listen to her “conversations” – that then ANYTHING I do would be misinterpreted. So, when I for one day thought something was going on and had made a tapestry or a quilt of stuff to at least have it there potentially as having something to do with something, and the next day started to sort it out, NO I was already made out to be a dangerous psychotic that was in love with this paranoid totally non-reality-based social worker, who when she said I could become violent people would believe it.
    The tapestry or quilt is quite simply, and easy to explain for me, but that’s personal. The gist of it is that I knew Mozart’s mother’s father (Mozart’s mother is my other half in spirit, we’ve ALWAYS been together, and I had talked with her quite a bit through mediums 30 years or so ago, although we had to stop doing that, too many mediums start acting like Lord Voldemoort when they don’t understand the love between a child and it’s mother), and knew Mozart’s mother’s father had lost everything, had made bad investments, and somehow I saw this going on with what was going on in the yoga class. I thought that this “teacher” had been Mozart’s mother’s father, and thought it pertinent to warn about some of the stuff I saw going on. That OF COURSE wasn’t understood, that was about non linear time (“past” lifetimes which still are part of life’s matrix), and then I had other symbolic stuff mixed in, which is quite florid. But to get to the gist of it, she wasn’t Mozart’s mother father, she was perhaps her mother, because I ran into him later, he was one of the dentists that had been telling me for FIVE YEARS to get a root canal, and I NOTICED he was making wrong investments. You can look up the dangers of root canals, if you don’t believe it, I’m still better off with the spiritual healing, from a healer that works from the space that has no times, and has been tested in a hospital to get a cancerous tumor to dissolved in ten minutes. But this was before getting involved with the healer, it was that when I recognized that man, and noticed although at level involved with mainstream practice he wasn’t making cogent investments, when I mentioned spiritual healing, he softened, and I knew I was introducing something that dissolved the tragedy from back then, the bad investments leading towards him losing everything and he died early, and then a year or two later, I came upon the healer, and the tooth DID heal. Because that’s beyond time, just that he felt that, although he might never heard about it. But you see, if I hadn’t brought this “crazy” idea up regarding investments, this whole landscape of time, this wouldn’t have been something I experienced, which IS what miracles are about, beyond the physical. They are reminders.
    And what else was in the tapestry? That’s all over the place. There was an actress in the class, but she played David Copperfield’s second wife, when Mr. Radcliffe (Daniel) was the young David. In that Version of David Copperfield. And then unfortunately, I have to add that Brad Pitt had the habit of coming to the same coffee house as I went to, and had gotten sexual feeling for me, or that’s how HE put it. I’ve never talked with him regarding memories of being Vaslav Nijinsky, but apparently he heard about it, because he found that convenient to refer to me as such one day. This was before he even got together much with Jennifer Aniston, but it was all over the tabloids so supposedly “everyone” knew. After quite a strange back and forth with someone who I have the tendency to call part of his “humpty dumpty band” because they always gave each other high fives, he suddenly mentioned TWICE that she was still mad at him. And then “speculated” that: “Maybe she’s mad at me because she knows I want to have sex with Vaslav Nijinsky.” Which sounds already for me to repeat it as if I’m making it up and psychotic which I’m not, it also involves Nijinsky with bizarre sexual politics, the kind of stuff that drove him crazy, and it quite insensitive whether it’s towards ANYONE, regardless of “Nijinsky.” When I came out of the state of just listening to such, whatever one calls it, I did get quite mad. He also never approached me in any decent way asking about something as personal as what he felt free to make reference to, that being “Nijinsky.” And then I had enough of it, awhile afterwards, did a search for Brad Pitt, and the only place talking about him being gay or not was a gay porn blog. I posted something there, and within a short time, not only did all of their posts disappear, but I got a phone call sounding like it was from Jennifer Aniston: “Hello Heeeeello…. HELLO……. YOU PRICK!” If she had that post removed, who knows how many millions or what it cost, but that ate least spared me from at that point in my life to have the paparazzi camped on my doorstep, or have ANYTHING to do with all of it, where you or anyone involved is taken apart, abused by media speculation, lies, assumptions, and anything they can get their claws on the make media prattle about, the more volatile the better to create volatility spikes online that draw in what people do there…….

    They were married by then, but divorced, and then we have this “yoga class”

    So here, we are, and someone that looks like Jennifer Aniston’s boyfriend she had for awhile, but broke up with, but is from this Hollywood stuff, he’s at the candy machine. But it wasn’t that guy, actually, it was someone else, which opens a door to a whole other reality, which I might go into. Anyhow, WHY NOT, if the two look like each other, why couldn’t this be Jennifer Aniston’s ex boyfriend, having some secret way of getting to the candy machine at the yoga class (which incidently was at the highschool I had attended some 32 years prior, although temporarily because the building the class usually was in was being worked on); and it seemed a means of intimidation, as if they know how to get to you, know where you’re having yoga classes etc….. you better be controlled by them. Or make sure you’re cool enough, Hollywood knows. And there’s this ridiculous chase seen like stuff going on because this yoga teacher social worker was totally paranoid, had gotten a whole group of friend to walk her to her car after class, as if I had any other interest in her.

    I couldn’t leave after class was finished, ANYWHERE near when she did, or I was supposedly stalking her. Although only by chance did I ever a couple of times leave when she did and only went straight to my bike, usually she and everyone else had left, and I was the last person out.
    I could be slowly putting my cloths on over my sweat pants and shirt, which I had to do since I was riding my bike home, not taking a car, and her teaching wasn’t really good yoga, as she didn’t allow the body time to relax the muscles properly to really allow for proper posturing and breathing, so I’d be coming down from that. But if I was doing that, and she was talking with someone, which I actually found amusing, she was such a character, so I might listen like when reading a book, then supposedly I was listening intently on her conversations.

    She had mentioned once having bought a bunch of chocolate, and was moaning about it, that she liked chocolate. Someone mentioned putting it in the back of the refrigerator. I actually had found out that putting coco in your oatmeal in the morning, that one can get the same resonant buzz as from the coco in a chocolate bar. It also happened that once during the last pose, that she said: “don’t think about what you’re going to do after class, you haven’t left yet, you’re not concentrating.” This was interesting to me, because I had been thinking about getting a big cookie after class. There are latino stores in my neighborhood, and I like their cookies better than the generic America type. But then I decided not to do that, and I didn’t. I thought I’d mention this to her, after class once: how I hadn’t gone to get the cookie because of what she said, and then also mentioned how you can get such a resonant buzz from just coco in oatmeal (rather than all of the sugar in chocolate). Having said that, she simply mentioned that she didn’t remember, which I thought meant she didn’t remember having said what I reminded her of, and then mentioned that the next class was to start. I then noticed I had been running my mouth, and didn’t like that, nor did I like it how coy she seemed, in her supposed kind manner that didn’t seem completely genuine, which was quite true. Because afterwards she turned that into me supposedly having heard that she shouldn’t take in too much sugar, and that I was mad at how much sugar she was taking, and she also made out she had said things to me she never had. She said she had told me to “back off,” which she had never said. If she had, I would have probably never tried to say ANYTHING to her again. And so she either lied to make me out to be some obsessive person I wasn’t, or she really was delusional regarding what she had said. I CERTAINLY wasn’t angry at her for her sugar intake, had never heard her mention whether she had to watch her sugar. And then a “friend” of hers who had started some of the paranoia, she had mentioned how she couldn’t believe how mad I got. I wasn’t mad… I just for a moment realized I hadn’t noticed the time, and must have looked severe for a moment, like you do when you should have been paying attention to the time.

    The first class, she said everyone could ask whatever they wanted to, and I was talking with her about a different kind of yoga I had learned from a tape, and then I also at that time was sharing musical CDs I had made of my piano playing with all sorts of people, just to share, and they all really liked it. I had taken a yoga class before that with another person as teacher, had shared my music, and he thought it was good. Lots of people like my CDs. One lady had given her copy to her sister, who wouldn’t give it back because it was the only thing that got her to go to sleep at night. So, I had tried to share a CD, and she actually proposed to play it in class, which I didn’t know if I liked, because it would be distracting to me, I might start listening and finding stuff wrong with what I did, or want to change things, and it can be too much. So, I mentioned that, and she said she couldn’t take CDs from students. So I thought that was that, but then this later turned into that I was trying to intimidate her by hovering over her during the conversation, and that I was two inches taller than I am and about 50 pounds heavier. What I remembered from trying to make ANY sense out of YET AGAIN another really very untrue convoluted statement, was that I noticed she was rather hunched over as she was talking, and I decided to straighten up in contrast, and might have taken one half step towards her, although I was still at least four or five feet away from her. I in NO WAY was trying to intimidate her. And her evaluation of me was literally FULL of such nonsensical paranoid and pretentious misinterpretations. This “friend” of hers had seen the conversation, and then mentioned later (I heard from her report trying to make me out things were going on that weren’t) that I was “in her personal space,” and I really only was really in love with yoga. I’m also gay, so I had NO interest in her. I DOUBT that if I was female, there would be the same response. Also, once during class, I had a very personal emotional memory going on, actually from spirit, and it made me tear up a bit. That same “friend” suddenly said: “and he starts crying,” as if there was something going on. AT THAT POINT I had no idea she and her friends had started this BIZARRE conspiracy theory that I was in love with her, so in reality it was THEM that were in MY personal space. I couldn’t even have an emotional reaction that had NOTHING to do with them, and not get such bizarre reactions.

    One class, she was talking with someone that was on my other side, so she was basically talking THROUGH me, and I couldn’t but hear it. She was AGAIN moaning about something. About all of the shots she had to have, the vaccines, because she worked in a hospital. I asked her whether she was a nurse, and she mentioned she was a social worker. Then I asked, because I had been getting e-mails about this, whether the vaccines work as well as they say they do. It was just what anyone might say regarding any topic. She said she didn’t want to have a WHOLE CONVERSATION about it, and so I calmly responded with that I think you have to look at both sides. I’ve recently had the covid vaccines, and I’m not anti-vax necessarily, although there are things I think one can’t ignore. But after me simply saying calmly that I think you have to look at both sides, she got really snippy and said: “Those who aren’t taking the vaccines are making the rest of us sick.”

    I REALLY didn’t like that. To begin with there is a WHOLE lot of disease going around because people don’t take care of themselves, they don’t stay home when sick, they don’t rest when they should, they don’t even know how to keep their immune system in shape, and they cause an incredible amount of tension, such as snipping at someone when they’d have to actually look at more than one side of something. There’s A LOT more to preventing other people from getting sick than whether you get vaccines, and this was only regarding the flue shots. And it was just rude, so I had actually called the guy who is in charge of the teachers there, mentioned that I didn’t take yoga class to be told I have to do what the drug companies say, he stated that he hadn’t gotten his shots that year, and then I mentioned something else. She had a portable CD, which she would use to play music, but there was a speaker not working, only static would come out. I actually had mentioned this, only that, that one speaker wasn’t working, and she poohed poohed parks and recreation, saying it was “just parks and recreation” so she wasn’t going to get a new one. I actually told the guy from parks and recreation about this, and he said that maybe she was scared to ask for a new one, and they’d buy one for her. Which they did.

    THAT turned into that I didn’t like her music: I had said NOTHING about her music, I had said that one speaker wasn’t working but was giving of static, and wondered whether she heard it, and then she said that I was completely against vaccines, which ALSO wasn’t true, it also was a conversation I had never had with her, it was with the facilitator at parks and recreation for the teachers, it was that I had gotten negative e-mails about it, and was repeating what it said in those e-mails, although I didn’t necessarily believe it, but that wasn’t even a conversation I had had with her, nor was it my real viewpoint. And then she said I had started the conversation rudely while she was talking to someone else. SHE had been talking right through me, to another person, I couldn’t help hearing it. Decent people take that into account, rather than if I don’t behave like an inanimate object there’s something wrong with me.

    Which brings the next things up. Along with ANYTHING she could use to misinterpret just about EVERYTHING in the yoga class, the class after that, it being Autumn it was cold outside and I’d have to wear gloves. And I had eczema badly, which when I was wearing gloves and doing any exercise like riding my bike would be like torture because my hands would sweat, and it would feel like someone sticking pins in my skin because of the eczema. But I had gotten to a bus stop that would take me close to the yoga class, a short enough distance on my bike to not cause problems, I thought. The bike then fits on a bike rack in front of the bus. I had gotten to the bus stop, and the bus came, but the rack in front of the bus was full of other bikes so I couldn’t take the bus, so I didn’t go to class. The result was that, when she was making this whole report, of how supposedly I was in love with her (which I wasn’t) and I was supposedly dangerously non-reality based (which again was something else) she said that I was resentful of this disagreement and thus didn’t come to class. Added to everything else, as if she knows what I’m thinking, and what’s wrong with it, when she couldn’t know WHY I went to class or not. Added to that would I show up in class, because she’s making stuff up, just about anything I do WHEN THERE could receive the same presumptuous paranoia, or downright lies, or the inability on her part to see what was going on, or even remember correctly.

    I actually had a spirit friend talk to me once during class. And it was a very clear voice, it said to not even ask her things after class, just to take the class and then leave. I even know who that spirit is, but won’t get into it. That’s MY business, my personal space. And YES I heard a clear voice in my head. Telling me EXACTLY what to do to avoid all of these pretentious paranoid evaluations that WERE NOT reality based, but it bothered me because I knew I wasn’t doing anything but asking simple normal questions. So I did simply ask her normal questions. Then, after she got this restraining order, full to the brim with misinterpretations, discriminatory paranoid evaluations, and either downright lies or her inability to process what happened, not be able to remember, or not tell the difference between her paranoia and reality; after all of that I had to sit and try to deal with all of that, while not in a state to be able to, and she sits up in her seat, and says to the judge: “I know…. He doesn’t hear voices, he sees things that aren’t there, it’s non reality based….” I do hear voices, very clear voices that are accurate, I also knew the day after trying to communicate about investments that I thought things were going on that weren’t physically really there the way I thought, but then it was too late. On the other hand, it is QUITE CLEAR that she TIME after TIME after TIME felt free to be paranoid and discriminatory, and this didn’t change, nor did she question it. But SHE is going on about non reality based thoughts!? And it makes one wonder how much she’s lying. One famous psychiatrist is actually quoted as saying that if you want to have your child committed, to turn over the furniture. I don’t know, and I actually was trying to be positive that she simply didn’t remember or was going on so much with her friends about what they thought was happening and it wasn’t that they had lost touch with reality but the riff between what I really was doing and thinking and what she made out of it is so severe that I truly wonder HOW MUCH she was lying. And NOW, I DO NOT LIE. For me to call parks and recreation and start talking about Mozart’s mother’s father, and Hollywood, and other stuff that really was my mind disassociating from highly discriminatory and dehumanizing ideas, that REALLY shows I’m not lying. It takes A LOT of honesty to have and express such thoughts about stuff most people are going to think are totally wacko, although to me in the end they have a whole reality all their own.

    If I would watch what she was doing, because I couldn’t follow her sing-song voice, I was gawking at her, and her “friends” said all I did was look at her. I was trying to see what she was doing, it was a yoga class for Heaven’s sake, and I wanted to learn yoga. Why is she even DOING the poses otherwise!?

    I can only wonder what she would have made out of me not looking at her: Would I then not have been interested in yoga, and had some other ulterior motive!?

    She also had made the strange statement that I was in her personal space, and I didn’t do anything she said. I tried to follow all of her poses, actually, and it was HER and her friends, and were making stuff up that wasn’t going on at all, if one is to talk about intruding in one’s personal space. It’s like there was supposed to be a sign, like one used to have in the old south stating where Black People used to have to exit a building: “Schizophrenics must not exit any time near to when the yoga teacher is leaving, or you’re stalking her, all other people can leave when they want to.”

    I didn’t wear my glasses during class. They might get in the way, and I didn’t feel comfortable doing yoga without them, so I would get up close to where she was so I could see. THAT again was turned into me supposedly wanting to be close to her for some other reason.

    One class, the last class of hers I went to, I had a backache, and I couldn’t do some of the poses. Although I did at least 70 to 80 percent of them or more, otherwise I’d go into the child’s pose (she had said to do that if tired, which she actually repeated to the class when I did do that), or I would lean my head on my hand. THAT turned into that I supposedly spent 80 percent of the class staring at her with my head on my hands. COMPLETELY not true. I just wonder whether she actually believes that, which means she has quite severe cognitive problems seeing the difference between her own paranoia and what’s really going on, whether she was lying, or whether she just feels free to exaggerate because I somehow made her feel uncomfortable about nothing. The only free place when I walked into class was right in front of her, which AGAIN was made into something it wasn’t. I also was a bit late, and apologized explaining I was detained by someone I ran into, but that ALSO was made out that I made a big commotion and was late. And then there was a class right after that, and AGAIN I don’t have a car, I have to put clothes back on, also the shoes which were difficult, because I had to get galoshes on over my regular shoes, that was squeaking, and she heard me, and instead of just leaving me be to get my stuff and leave, in a VERY ANGRY MANNER, she said I’d have to be faster or take my stuff with me, and then pointed towards a whole different exit to the room, which went into the main building, which I had no idea where it would lead or how to get out, and so I just quietly left out the exit every else did. A whole angry outburst, because I actually had to deal with riding a bike, rather than having a car, even though those classes are SUPPOSED to be for people like me who can’t afford yoga otherwise, and I have no money for a car, don’t want to cause the pollution.

    I was simply riding my bike home, and then I noticed one of her “friends” riding around with a cell phone in a car, as if me simply getting my stuff together, because she was teaching another class, that that was some danger. I entertained that for a moment, but as such goes with people who are CONSTANTLY assaulted with such hateful paranoia, I disassociated from even considering it, because I KNEW nothing was going on. One person, a friend on facebook told me how in their class regarding perhaps even SOCIAL WORK, they had gotten permission to spend a whole day going up and down an elevator at a mall. The idea was to see how people respond to anything a bit unusual. And so they would just go up and down and up and down, and if someone complained the security would go with them one floor up, and then they’d get off, but get back on. The nice girl had quite a story to tell of how ridiculous people respond about nothing. Or go somewhere looking like a homeless person and see how people respond, or go somewhere and talk to yourself. Or say things in a dadaist manner (a legitimate art form) and see how people respond. There was nothing going on. I NEVER was in love with her. I’m not some potentially violent person either. This “social worker” in a report ACTUALLY put down that she was scared I would show up at her work, or at her home. (!?) So ANYONE her and her “friends” would become suspicious of because they really were animated enough about what was being taught (yoga) then, they would start on making false interpretations, and one would get a whole snowball effect.

    The next day, I tried to call parks and recreation, with the whole tapestry or quilt involving investments, because of EVERYTHING going on I was disassociating from. ALL of the paranoia, and then the weird Hollywood stuff, which is where a lot of the stereotyping and chase scene inducing paranoia comes from, actually. In reality it’s not as if such media machinery isn’t involved, actually, to be realistic. THESE DANGEROUS SCHIZOS. And in reality, you couldn’t get me to want to own a gun, nor do anything violent, even if it was required. I’ve been a war protester for years, have often, during the Iraq war been protesting, and heard from my sister that her friends saw me often on the local news, when they filmed the protests. That and my long hair and easy clothes probably added to the stereotyping. And this “yoga teacher” social worker could look into her computer and see whether I had a diagnosis. She mentioned that this friend of hers had said: “He’s in your personal space, what’s wrong with him!?” The same girl that couldn’t see me tear up a bit about something that had NOTHING to do with anything there, nor would I want it to, and she thinks I’m crying because I’m in love with this pretentious teacher (and I’m gay, which probably also they misinterpret, because then I’m not guarded around girls like they think men are supposed to be, although would any girl they haven’t already stereotyped with who knows what behave that way towards them there’s no presumption)……

    And now 13 years later, having run according to the man [according to me, rather than just discarding that thought] who is or was (reincarnated from then) Mozart’s mother’s father, and having brought something real positive as to what one can invest in, and an infection that, because I invested in spiritual healing, wasn’t supposed to clear up but did after five or six years, I can’t say that me trying to say ANYTHING about investments is “non reality based,”

    I even understand the trauma of not being able to think things through. The anxiety that caused me to latch onto stuff that was only symbolic, even what happened in my childhood to cause that anxiety, but then I understand trauma, rather than even judging others who caused my anxiety. But I can’t say it’s non-reality based. It’s more flexible stuff that create a relationship with themes in life that are more objective than what the ego through the physical senses can pin reality down into being limited by.
    Regardless, I experienced a miracle, and I have the x-rays to prove it.

    Perhaps I actually do know who the guy was at the candy machine, it was the son of a lady who I had frequently encountered working at a goodwill store, I had seen them together, but that’s a whole other story involving connections with the spirit whose voice I so clearly heard. A whole other time with themes still reaching out for miracles. It was a colleague of the spirit I was concerned with. A colleague that I know would get into trouble because of such WEIRD power struggles going on. As if it isn’t INCREDIBLY unsettling that such lies are going around. Just because this paranoid, discriminatory pretentious woman thinks I’m in love with her when I wasn’t, and something she completely can’t understand and calls non-reality based, might lead to miracles. Which by now they do.

    And now I’m NOT saying that everyone should stay away from the dentist, and not get treatment, this was just something I felt impelled to do. Do your own thing. And by the way, the dentist told me there was no sign of infection, although it had been there for like 5 years or so. THAT was in the x-rays from May 23. So no one is going to say that I’m in danger because I’m not following medical procedure. I also have a social worker I see regularly, one who respects me. The last time I saw her, when I mentioned this other person, who was supposed to be teaching yoga, that she would make such statements, her remark was that it wasn’t her job to evaluate me, it was her job to teach yoga. I’ve since found yoga that works, because it’s gentle to the body, and actually healing. And the social worker I’ve seen for oh 5 years or so (I don’t know exactly I’d have to look into it), she has NEVER seen any signs that I could become violent about ANYTHING. And she KNOWS me, because she’s taken the trouble to understand people like me! In fact, there are three social workers I’ve seen the last 5 or six years (one for a year, one for three months, and the other the rest of the time) and NONE of them have had ANY concerns regarding me as a danger to anyone, or myself. But because I’d heard so many stories about social workers like this “yoga teacher” that I stayed away from them until I heard about an organization that was different. This “yoga teacher” CERTAINLY didn’t inspire me to think a social worker would be helpful, but there ARE others.

  • Um, that was Shawn Mendes, for the second time.

    I was just walking around, as I’ve already described, at the Arts Festival in Grand Rapids, and did notice this person that resembled someone else, and even when I realized he wasn’t that person, was a bit interested in the comparison. I wouldn’t have even recognized Shawn, but for his reaction trying to stereotype me as if I had been, would be, or am disruptive because I ever attempted to make a spiritual statement about music, and healing, and his music, although at the time, as I’ve listed quite abundantly above, I was still digesting it all.

    I wasn’t even interested in him, actually, other than his resemblance to someone else of another caliber, and then he passes me AGAIN with Billie Eilish, and I had so enough of such that I said: “him again?” not even really knowing who he was yet, or interested. I would be please if instead of it being about him, it would be about art, and music.

    Here then is my original comment (the moderator was having difficulty finding it again to reinstate it, and I don’t want to trouble him further), I asked to have it removed, because I wasn’t so sure yet, but now, even if I was wrong, which I don’t believe so, it still shows how confusing those people can be, needing to be on some aggressive safari in order to fulfill the marketing agents wishes, thinking that “then” they will have something to say…..as if simply being human isn’t enough, and those that are…..

    Here is the full comment, after I was told, while the clock was ticking more than four minutes left, that time was up, the machinery contradicting itself….
    And yes this gets to be quite annoying running into these….. needs to become an icon, being exploitive of other people’s simple compelling lives – as if their lives are commodities for celebrity media exploits – to such a degree they don’t know what they are getting others, whose lives they are exploiting into anymore…..
    ‘We live in a society where we punish the wounded instead of treating them.’
    ‘Enough beating myself up,’ she realized. ‘I’m obviously not choosing this. But this means that whether it’s medication or therapy or yoga or meditation or whatever, I need to get proper treatment.’”
    Taking controlled substances that have INCREASED violence, to such a degree that one regularly reads of murder suicides, or someone inexplicable killing another that just sort of got on their nerves, with somewhere in the corporate media story it says they were being treated for depression, or the like, without even mention of the side effects that normal treatment with antidepressants causes, which are suicidal thoughts, and homicidal thoughts.
    That isn’t beating oneself up?
    What are they chosing?
    I have had SO MANY celebrities come into my life, with such embellishments or presumed help to mankind, with such behavior…..
    I’ve actually had interaction out of nowhere with both her and her mate, and I don’t even know if I hung up on him recently, when he called saying: “Hi my name is Shawn,” when they just started with promoting “mental health help” and I thought he was a telemarketer……
    And this link actually has a popup one can click on if you are in crisis… I copied the following without clicking on it:
    “Need Help Right Now? Ring the bell.
    “Click here if you are in crisis and need help right now.
    Crisis Resources”
    I don’t think that clicking on that link would help one find the help that is beyond the mainstream push, which statistically has caused more of the problem.
    In fact it might be quite UNNERVING.
    It’s already quite unnerving to see once again this hype about what really hasn’t been shown to alleviate the problem statistically, let alone be forced into it because of a “crisis.”
    I don’t know what to say about this. I would be MORE than pleased, if while getting all fired up to help the multitudes, they would FIRST take a step back and see what EXACTLY they are getting THEMSELVES and further more others into……
    And I could go all into this rather out of control behavior, of needing celebrity, and needing a personal life, and the stark extremely contradictory behavior resulting….
    I had tried to talk to Shawn about a song of his, and how miracles were involved, then he acted like he wasn’t himself, probably because he thought I was too “crazy,” and then she tells me when I happen to be on the same bus, and am going on about everything one has to process when they get involved with YES real miracles, and that does take a lot of thought says: “Jesus is really proud of you,” but now we get this…….
    This ad for what could EASILY dowse someone from ever being able to process it,
    !?!?
    I know they mean it kindly, and believe they are great helpers but…..
    And I have encountered a whole list of other “celebrities” or rather media bubbles behaving in the same uneducated manner……
    EXACTLY the kind of game theory that, I can’t remember his name for the life of me right now (before time’s up I remember its Laing), found is what caused his patients who were doing better, to relapse, after going home in “society” and having to deal with all of that….
    Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp making explicit sexual remarks towards me, while maintaining a career not being honest enough about such desires to have to deal with what might be considered lost market value, with Keanu Reeves it became: “that boy has such a cute ass,” when I was acting out the robot in Artificial Intelligence movie; Justin Bieber also was going on about my ass thinking he was being cool, during one of his drug run periods but not too high at the time to be around, when he and a few others I discovered going over to an International marketing building off to the side of the bus route, or that would seem the logical place (he’s ALSO now promoting antidepressants and saying that people should take their medications rather than admitting the difficulty getting off of them, and what about others who never wanted to be forced on them, do they need this “kind” advice) and I think I had actually informed him of a past lifetime that was significant….
    You wouldn’t even believe it, and I’m not making this up. I wish I was, it would have more imagination to it, than such game theory…….
    About sexuality, about image, about marketing value, about being an icon for others, about how to get points by corporate mania……
    And I’ve had it with this bombardment from media people. I live in what’s about the biggest small town on the planet, and these people can come in here, and act out, without paparazzi around….
    And I’ve just been trying to live a simple life about being human.

  • I have to laugh about this now, because I don’t really know at all whether that was Shawn Mendes that bothered me yesterday. I hadn’t slept, am still withdrawing from all of that caffeine for more than half my life, got involved with a spiritual group that’s really challenging, and found WOW I really have a lot to let go of. Was just taking a stroll in an outdoor art festival to find out what I can let go of.

    I thought definitely it’s now, and then I wonder, which probably means it’s an archetypal echo. And what bothers me the most. what if I AM mistaken, but for good reasons, trying to digest something regarding these media people that I’ve run into too much, and have shown interest in my life, because it’s actually compelling, which they want to exploit for media, thinking they are being helpful.

    What if I’m simply mistaken, and totally non violent. It’s decided you’re psychotic, a danger to yourself or others and…..

    If I go over what for example Brad Pitt hauled out, before he got married for the first time. He was hanging out at the same coffee house as I was, and he started having feelings for me, this is just after he had filmed Fight Club, or during. There was a lot of talk around of my life he must have heard, because I was open about having past lifetime memories of being Nijinsky (Vaslav). Because after having feelings for me, and not really reaching out in an appropriate way, he started a conversation with someone else that he knew i would overhear, and state that he didn’t know why “she” was mad at him, which he repeated at least twice: “She’s STILL mad at me,” and then speculated whether it was because she knew that he wanted to have sex with “Vaslav Nijinsky.”

    That’s quite bizarre already, if anyone cared to know about Vaslav Nijinsky’s life, and how it was marred by sexual exploitation to such a degree that for the insensitivity he was labeled as being schizophrenic. And then we have Brad Pitt perpetuating such insensitivity.

    He also used to play supposed jokes hiring gay escorts to who up to George Clooney’s shoots, and George Clooney did the same, and found pret in putting a sticker on Brad Pitt’s car saying “I’m gay, although I have a small penis” or something to that extent. And yet when playgirl had photos of him naked, he sued them. But he’ll hire gay escorts as joke and think more of such is fun What DIFFERENCE should it make whether someone is naked or not, and where does supporting the idea that this isn’t OK do to those that he hires as a joke?. ….When the stuff regarding the gay escorts was all over the news, a prominent gay escort service was put out of business. WHY would that be? Might it be that the same people who promote Mr. Pitt and others, and market such were a bit too much in the books that might be revealed? Could be, couldn’t it?

    And I’m NOT making this up. Johnny Depp also was making references to “Nijinsky,” and asked me for sexual favors I won’t even repeat here.

    AGAIN! I’m not making that up, that isn’t from any “psychosis,” I know very well the difference, in contrast to people mesmerized by the image and marketing decoys that such stuff isn’t going on. Or to people believing all sorts of things that promote marketing, but hide the truth.

    And I’m not supposed to talk about this, have this STRESS in my life because of their “image” which they think is their “value,” and their private life becomes insensitive exploitation of others who HAVE a compelling life exactly BECAUSE it’s compelling not something that sells to make one part of the mob. And “normal.” Or have some fit somewhere in a normal that’s not normal somewhere else, but normal enough within its guarded boundaries to create enough numbers to become a commodity as target for a market.

    I wish Shawn and Camilla the best, but they’re not making it overlooking what psychiatric “medications,” do to people, and if they were involved with a form of art that’s by itself more peaceful, has more perspective, is calming rather than aggressive and stimulant, they might be helping to create a door for healing that was supposed to be there in the first place, when someone looks for a respite from it all.

    But then this guy, with a blond girl I noticed later, when he came tramping by me at the bus station looking like he’s on a Safari, after not being able to leave me alone while listening to a Mozart Opera, when I wondered why he looked like the reincarnation of someone else, who was Jesus harp teacher. I actually said: “Him again!?” to myself.

    And about the jumble of “past” lifetime stuff. It really is just to show you’re not a body, really, that time isn’t linear, and that something else will take care of stuff. For all I know this supposed confusion (if it wasn’t him, which I don’t even care that much to know whether it was or not), it’s people to take with several grains of salt, or maybe stay away from, the way they take up causes (while maintaining utopian images varnished with beauty treatments and “fashion”) and run marketing bubbles thinking that’s how you help people, not knowing the difference between that and the truth about what goes into the money binge.

    I’ve seriously run into SO MANY media people, actors, that have this straight profile sexually, and yet felt free to think it’s proper indulgence to keep themselves pampered to come on to me for sex. And yet their image remains being straight, they can get the roles people with brave honesty don’t, or can’t because of marketing image, and then they talk about how tolerant they are about homosexuality, or diversity, just as long as they aren’t included to have to deal with the same stuff they act like they are sticking up for. And SERIOUSLY I have encountered that SO many times, that it makes me wonder whether my life is in danger would I simply be honest about it, because that exposes stuff the marketing agencies don’t want people to know, because what they use as commodities (the images they promote and advertise) that loses marketing value.

    And then psychiatric drugs.

    Well!
    “Psychosis” has SHOWN to be an honesty that transcends such game theory. R. D. Laing showed that to be the case.

    To have such honesty dowsed with psychiatric drugs, and all the symbolism that expresses true issues with the people themselves or what’s going on in society that needs attention pushed to the side rather than seen for how it might point towards what truly needs attention……

    Well, I’ll ask the editors to reinstate my initial statement now.

  • And I notice, I actually got so into “Stereotypes” with this marketing stuff….

    I might have mistook someone else for Shawn (that was today, not another time), and it teed me off.

    In trying to explain how his music evoked something involving a vehicle from another dimension, that can heal, that can bypass time that’s otherwise going round in circles repeating itself, that can teleport, because it resembles bleakly enough smoke when you put out a fire, or in my case, what I often saw would happen would someone hurl a missile at one of these cars coming by with loud music to stop that racket,which was not anything violent, just for the smoke (it’s the music often, that’s so loud aggressive and violent, not the mist, the vapor that’s released), which is beyond time’s grasp; and I’ve recently seen that vehicle turning up in a picture, when a portal to Heaven was opening, for someone to blossom into it, like we all will do when we lay our body to rest. And I’ve seen that it can do impossible things, which I won’t mention for sake of when it happens, it still will, whether anyone says you can’t mention it because it’s giving dangerous direction (a miracle is!?)….

    I’m going on about this, all ‘psychotic” enough so that it has enough imaginative lubrication to do what it’s meant to do, and Shawn says to me: “Trust me, I can’t sing….” Now I didn’t know actually that he goes through periods when he can’t sing, nor that that’s what he was telling me. So I was wrong, sorry. Really sorry. And he does integrate the healing energies, instead. So it’s a different kind of singing.

    Just sit relax, smile at a painting, or the view, or anything beautiful, and you can’t chest breath, and then you create the resonance for singing. But that’s more gentle and quiet. And I did mention that.

    But this whole swamp of confusion. Someone animating a tendency that MEDIA games bring out, me thinking that’s Shawn, so I see Shawn really is trying to avoid it, in contrast, although he’s stuck in it, from just trying to be art, itself……

    And so we all could end up there, and many have!

    And he WAS Joseph of Aramathea, perhaps he can’t sing, when he’s reminded of the great friend he lost…….

    But then it also could have been Shawn, maybe he wasn’t himself, I notice, after having to come back here, and you WILL lose someone who is not at home in such calculations of game theory and the media, someone who just wants to be where his nature as healer is allowed, and actually nurtured with interest.

    I do notice that Shawn made a big stink about people going on about whether he’s gay or not, and then even saying something like: “You WISH I was gay,” as if this is about them being wrong, not that gay people are tormented, and he’s free to deny it, because he doesn’t have that much of a challenges with it in life. And then I can’t but refer to has marketing agents telling him not to tell people’s if he’s at all bisexual…..

    I’m just walking around listening to a Mozart opera at an art festival. And opera that was written when he was 12, and I’m still waiting for a decent DVD of it. Although I’m happy there’s CD’s enough. I’m not worried about it, it’s not a bubble that will burst to dissipate, because it’s already shone beyond that.

    This guy that looks like Jesus harp teacher, actually, from Bethlehem is walking my way. Jesus had harp lessons by the way: Some butter manifested out of “nowhere,” and Jesus didn’t have an environment where he could talk about such things with the gentle reflexes that were always his nature, and then found a harp teacher he could trade dairy products with for lessons to honor the little gentle miracle of such manifestation, and he learned how to play harp, people would come just to hear him sing and play. That teacher became Couperin, who fluid music lead the way for Mozart’s natural playfulness…..

    THAT SAID, I’m just wondering who that is that resembles him, but is really too stiff in his gait, and I know it’s not, but still look with my peripheral vision, not interested in anything but comparing the two, similar and fortunately not similar. And the guy says to me: “get,” as he passes me. Which happens to me all the time, because people can’t separate their fear from spiritual energy that transcends it. They act like something is going on that isn’t.

    And then he passes me again, when I’m at the bus stop, could have been with Billie Eilish, who he’s just done something with.

    Media people can be so confusing and insensitive! ESPECIALLY when they think they’re taking on someone’s….

    Someone’s story, someone’s providence….

    And SADLY that’s called a song and dance number, as if that’s what art is about.

  • I’ve since had to ask to have my first remark taken off of this website, because of the kind of GRIP these people have on the media, and just getting involved with the truth one has to demure. Or Justin Bieber promoting anti-depressants, along with others doing movies no gay or schizophrenic would be offered, let alone favored, given Hollywood image games, although showing intimate interest in me, with also the same insensitivity to what they actually end up promoting, with their “privilege”…

    They aren’t the most wonderful people, if they were they’d know better, and have made a succinct statement about the dangers of what Camilla doesn’t think twice about getting others involved with.

    And Shawn wasn’t really honest when I tried to make a statement about miracles, which goes along with the rest of the dishonesty and game theory media games I encountered with such “celebrities,” stuff I’ve had to put on the back burner or get so caught up in it, I would have been destroyed like so many already. And Camilla afterwards says “Jesus is proud of you,” to me, when Jesus was really just trying to get to me to help me (which he has since), and they are in the way, as they are spiritually in anyone’s way who gets caught up with the system, when it isn’t acknowledged what these “medications” really do to the mind, while there’s no articulate care that they are listed along with mindfulness and meditation. Certainly also the diagnosis, or the supposed comfort (then one “knows” what it is!?) when in reality it that takes away the freedom of simply finding out how unique everyone is, rather than a number. Psychiatric drugs CAUSE chemical imbalance, and that’s grounded science, not the media hype that they treat it. If someone HAS had a youth that caused distress, and one’s nerves are on edge because of reflexes, and all of the activity that goes with it in the brain, possibly being chemical, one doesn’t need more of an imbalance regarding being able to respond unhampered with how one feels, when one wasn’t allowed to. Sedating the discomfort, or bypassing it with stimulant isn’t going to help, in reality. As if the brain isn’t spiritual, and doesn’t have the connection with evolution and the source of life to do what needs to be done.

    And it’s an old story, Shawn was Joseph of Arimathea, I “think,” and if he and the rest of the mob exploiting Jesus had really listened, Jesus could have THEN already found escape in art. Jesus played harp, but that had to be sold when there were financial difficulties, and wasn’t allowed to draw landscapes (although because of not being allowed, learned to draw in the sand, which helped to save a prostitute’s life) nor was he allowed to make clay sculptures from the oppression, then already from the Jewish “authorities” when he was a boy. Before he even reached puberty the “authorities” already tried to make out such art wasn’t God. And then his stories, his parables.

    And I’m here to give Jesus a home so he doesn’t have to disassociate from such a VOLUME of aggressive sound, or the media frenzy. And end up seeking refuge with what now is only history… or the excuse people have to make out someone actually grieves for such a loss is crazy, or even disrespectful, as if it couldn’t have been DIFFERENT!

    And it ISN’T going to be repeating itself…..

    And YES, I’m angry. Is it OK that I’m also non-violent by not repressing my feelings for media image!?

  • Thank you so much for this.
    And I’m truly impressed you can retain references and cite links.
    It’s truly difficult for me, I feel as if I’m getting so stuck in such prickly things, that I actually feel the pricks, like I’m in barbed wire.

    As Emily Dickinson refers to, regarding prickly things:

    The Child’s faith is new —
    Whole — like His Principle —
    Wide — like the Sunrise
    On fresh Eyes —
    Never had a Doubt —
    Laughs — at a Scruple —
    Believes all sham
    But Paradise —

    Credits the World —
    Deems His Dominion
    Broadest of Sovereignties —
    And Caesar — mean —
    In the Comparison —
    Baseless Emperor —
    Ruler of Nought —
    Yet swaying all —

    Grown bye and bye
    To hold mistaken
    His pretty estimates
    Of Prickly Things
    He gains the skill
    Sorrowful — as certain —
    Men — to anticipate
    Instead of Kings —

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Child's_faith_is_new_—

  • Could you share a link for the randomized brain study that: “found in 9 months these drugs cause almost 4 times more brain loss than what occurs in an entire lifespan”? Because I believe you, I’ve just never heard that, amongst everything else that’s already extremely disturbing and is supposed to be seen as “healing.”

    I also never heard that neuroleptics take more out of your life that cigarettes. Which I also believe.

  • I did a “search” today.
    Camila Cabello and OCD…..
    Seems like “every” magazine from “People” if I even remember that correctly, to who knows what has a story about Camila and OCD, and then the alleged brain disease stuff.

    You have to bruise yourself quite a few times, say on your arm, before that becomes an arm disease. Your arm telling you it hurts ALSO isn’t a disease. And then there’s the talk about meditation or mindfulness, but that STILL isn’t addressing a disease when they gets the “symptoms” to stop, as little as then when you stop doing what bruises your arms, your arms have healed of this “disease” you had when you wouldn’t stop getting them bruised.

    It is SO silly to me. Call it OCD, and get all of this attention, make yourself out to be this big icon for bettering the world, get paid tons of money in the meantime for being such……

    But don’t see that actually calling it a “Brain Disease,” and go on this blitz about it, that you endanger the lives of a whole array of vulnerable people, that are going to believe this exaggeration, think they need the “medications,” or even worse that too many regardless of whether they even want to be treated but being forced on it by others lose their voice, because it’s a “disease” and you’re a “hero” to not see that…..

    Oh you have OCD too, me too, we’re in this together, go get drugged up possibly, it might be part of it, maybe addicted for life, but I get points for initiating this “help”….

    Not that mindfulness and meditation aren’t amazing, but…..

    To advertise them in such a way actually takes away from the diseases they could heal, real diseases where someone finds a solution rather than getting trapped in a pharmaceuticly promoted maze….

    Yes mindfulness heals distress, anxiety, etc. but those aren’t diseases; as little as that your arm expressing pain when you overuse it is a disease. Listening to what that’s telling one is how one PREVENTS disease, psychiatric drugs actually CAUSE brain diseases, they don’t heal them. They don’t scientifically heal chemical imbalances, they cause them. And statistically have caused a spike in mental illnesses, an epidemic.

    Advertising meditation and mindfulness in SUCH a setting is like not pointing out that when you eat cherries dowsed with sugar or high fructose corn syrup, or baked till they have no enzymes inside of highly processed grains, that this hasn’t taken the healthiness out of the cherries that were meant to be there, or neglecting to see that you put them in a recipe that is unhealthy, and still make out it is “just cherries.”

    NO it’s not…

    What kind of “ambition” does it take to not get involved in such deception!?

    Camila and Shawn Mendes actually ARE the most wonderful people, Shawn’s songs are maybe the first songs in a long time, I enjoyed hearing when a car came by with their stereo on so loud I could hear it outside. Didn’t want to hurl a missile at the noise anymore to get it to stop. And Camila is honest beyond words, but even THEY end up being corrupted by this media blitz of the “mental illness” business…..

  • So, as the use of quotation marks would be proper grammar, she’s “dead.”

    I’m glad to say you can still find her here, the whole play: Call me Crazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6myXKiXGuUA

    Let’s keep her alive, then….

    I suspect that her creativity was a bit to visceral for the “entertainment” world, probably much like my friend Ernst Toller, who wrote several screen plays that we haven’t seen emerge at all. Someone who “knew” too much, and even said to a friend that if it’s reported that he committed suicide, it wouldn’t be true.

    God bless Paula for daring to speak the truth.

  • Case in point is how Camila Cabello gets as much media attention, as long as she’s pushing the mainstream push with the numbers test: “Also it took me literally four minutes, it’s like so easy,” and you can get put in line to get mind altering drugs that are highly addictive and their implementation goes right along with the current phenomenon of an extreme spike in the occurrences of mental illnesses. Join the crowd, be part of the mob. This from celebrities who need the mob. The very fact the psychiatric drugs are highly addictive increases stress responses, unless you think being made addicted to something that causes difficulty in getting off of doesn’t cause stress. Or Bruce Springteen gets as much media representation about his struggles with depression, and how he took antidepressants (or Lady Gaga, or Demi Lovato, or the sister of Glenn Close, or anyone-playing-the-media-game). Celebrity has become a drug, propped up by the image factory, Hollywood mansions, beauty treatments and the rest; but the horrors of the Columbine shootings aren’t really represented at all, in how antidepressants were involved. I’m sure that certainly the majority of PR firms, would someone even know the truth, they would discourage their expressing it.

    Regarding Columbine, the ring leader of the two boys that were the shooters was on Luvox, an antidepressant. And he actually knew how it would make him act, there was a case against the drug company regarding that but that was bought out by the drug company. I have to add that I again have anecdotal knowledge regarding this. Regardless of this being anectodal there was a case against the drug companies that was bought up by them, and there are the warning labels on anti-depressants that the drug companies tried to prevent from being there. I was on the bus one day, and I heard someone make a sarcastic remark about anti-depressants (his doctor suggested them, and it was clear the man didn’t agree with that), and so I chimed in with what and so many other people on this blog, know about them. This man on the bus then proceeded to tell me that he used to have a foster care facility close to Columbine, and both the boys in the shooting used to go to play pool there, and would tell their story, or at least part of it. They said that they had been bullied by jocks at the school, and it was so severe that they had gone to the principle, the principle had told them to go to the sheriff, and the sheriff told them to go to the principle; clearly nothing was done. And the ring leader of the two had told the man I spoke to that he had had his “medications” changed, and was on Luvox. And that he had hateful thoughts towards everyone. I don’t remember exactly what the man stated as to what everyone referred to, but it contained his family, his friends, his girlfriend and then maybe more. He had told the doctor, and the doctor had told him to just keep taking the medications. That was a few weeks before the shootings. During the time that I heard this story, Mindfreedom was asking for people to talk to Michael Moore, because he was making his documentary about such things, and so I mentioned that to this man, to do that, but haven’t seen him since, nor do I know whether I would recognize him. NONE of any of this has been reported in corporate media. Instead one of the boy’s mother’s has been on Ted-talks promoting mainstream treatment and drugging; and one can still read in the media regular accounts of inexplicable acts of violence with one sentence added: “he or she was being treated for depression,” and then more mass shootings being the call for more mainstream treatment that’s not only in collusion with the spike in the occurrence of mental illnesses but in collusion with the spike in mass shootings. And yet the information is withheld regarding whether or not psychiatric drugs were involved. Even whether antidepressants were involved, despite they have such a warning lable.

    There was one person who tried to expose all of this: Mark Taylor, who was shot during the Columbine shootings. You can read his sad story here, and how it’s been shot down, once again…. https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-mark-escape-his-22-year-columbine-nightmare

  • I don’t think that Camila Cabella knows how much taking on this whole helper image for those struggling with mental illness, and then including “medications” as normal procedures, when in reality they are scientifically and statistically more of a cause. Since their advent there’s a spike in mental illness, and the medications themselves have been proven scientifically to cause chemical imbalance, while the diagnosed diseases haven’t.

    I myself never have been on psychiatric drugs, not forced on them, and never convinced that they would help. But I have had a problem that came from “normal” stuff I had taken on the habit of believing I wanted or needed. Just drinking too much coffee, or before that smoking could, after being “diagnosed” cause me to have symptoms that could be labeled as psychiatric symptoms needing “medications,” and I reel wondering how someone who had been made to believe that the drugs that they have been induced into thinking will help them are actually causing the problems they rack their brain out trying to find another cause for, and also to control in a way that in many or most ways could be more the cause than a cure. Coffee or cigarettes aren’t doled out as medicines, one can discover what’s going on without the idea one is going against healing protocol. How anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medications and ADHD medications lead towards problems in the long run, added on diagnosis that are made out to be diseases rather than side effects, it makes me reel to wonder how so many people could EVER become aware of what is going on, were they EVER used to the “medications” thinking they needed them, and that it was “normal.”

    Coffee increases dopamine, and serotonin as well as interfering with gabba (the neurotransmitter that helps one feel tired); and so the adrenaline is affected as well. I had gotten in the habit of drinking coffee while in The Netherlands, where that’s a normal offering when you visit someone, and then had started smoking as well, which also affects dopamine. I got so used to it, and how the extra dopamine made me feel that I would resort to it just to feel comfortable. My Grandmother in The Netherlands already said that that was the first thing I started “screaming” for when I came over (I didn’t really start screaming, it was just a tendency to want something, like a baby does).

    All through higher education which continues in the United States, I would frequent the cafeterias and have a cup of coffee, to such a degree that when I went and ordered one from the worker behind the counter, I could hear one of them repeat what I said, in exactly the same tone, having heard it so often. But then I had real difficulty in my life, real betrayal I couldn’t understand from other people, behavior that was highly discriminatory and paranoid towards me when I wasn’t exploitable to their social confines along with other shocking signs that what my nature is as an artist is more turned into a commodity, an entertainment, a stimulant than it’s what it’s meant to be as an expression of the soul of all things and healing. I ended up drinking coffee the whole night (and smoking) sitting on my parents porch, then sleeping during the day instead, and really was just disturbed, needed someone to simply listen, just that, and that didn’t happen. Instead it was entertained that I could be seen as being “crazy” and my parents with a friend that was a psychiatrist got me on disability. The disability did give me the freedom to explore art for what it’s meant to be, rather than a commodity, an exploit, but I never understood what was going on the way I was supposed to, and from just being disturbed I started having what could be labeled as psychotic episodes, although even the supposed non-reality based thinking or reality that went on was expressive of and symbolized real emotional issues (trauma, concepts I needed to work out that I hadn’t been allowed to entertain or that weren’t given room to integrate let alone express themselves). And so I even became aware I had thinking that would be considered “non-reality-based,” although I knew the supposed “medical” cure for it would never work; I didn’t have the where withal to know how much coffee or cigarettes were in cohorts with the phenomenon. I couldn’t interpret the supposed “non-reality-based” scenarios to understand why they took the form they did, not having that kind of emotional support or therapy that would help to blossom such interpretive abilities, and in the end it took years and years. It took YEARS. First going into these episodes, not understanding it, but at least having a place where emotions could express themselves, although not understood at another level where it was called “schizo-effective,” and then dealing with the shock of everything from the push to get anyone with such problems “help” that in reality was more causing the problems, had no scientific basis in reality – in fact one could say my psychosis did have more scientific basis because it expressed emotions one needed to get to know in order to grow in life, and could determine my whole future, regarding mental health – and the whole societal phobia around it, and paranoia, and malicious mocking like one finds in the school yard with bullying. And the “heroic” fixation all around me to make out that forcing me on treatment I knew would ruin my life was critically necessary, as I watched friend after friend I encountered in the mental health system fall prey to such horrors. And I couldn’t figure out what was going on with, ended up without knowing why going into these periods, these episodes, where my thinking was off to a degree I wanted to understand it, didn’t have the insight or knowledge, beyond my desire to understand something I knew wasn’t violent at all, and didn’t really interfere with my life as it was made out to, when the interference was WAY MORE on the side of the discriminatory reaction to it. And there ends up being this incredibly vast array or paranoid, gossip and malicious bullying against anyone in such a vulnerable state. I just wanted to understand it, wanted there to be room for me or anyone going through it to express it for what it was, rather than making it out to be a danger it never was, and there were also spiritual and artistic things that could come through, thanks to the disinhibition from being “normal,” from following statistical based norms or consensual reality deportment, as if reality is something people could vote on, and make out that their system was maintaining it without looking further into what they were doing, and the results.

    I did start understanding the other side of it, how my “nonreality based thinking” expressed emotional trauma I needed to let go of by allowing it to be exposed and its reflexes out in the open I could let go of them, and I had discovered that coffee caused problems (hadn’t smoked for YEARS) and had actually stopped drinking it for almost a year, but I was was taking coffee enemas, which really is kind of daft, but I thought it was a healing method. I know it stimulates the liver, from the capillaries in the lower intestines, and could feel that from the beginning, but again I got quite addicted to them. Way over did it. And had some naive idea that the enemas didn’t produce the caffeine effect that causes the increase in the neurotransmitters, because I didn’t feel it like I did with drinking coffee. And so last Christmas, when I had worked hard on a very simple recording, I felt I needed something to calm me down, or make me feel soothed, and did a second coffee enema, and within a few days keeping such habits up was again in an “episode” that lasted two months. I wouldn’t have figured out the connection until I was told, thanks to covid and wanting to know whether I had antibodies whose test for requires doctors approval, I was told that I had high blood pressure. I never had high pressure, but then started looking into where it could come from, got a blood pressure machine, and after a coffee enema found my blood pressure shot way up, and then figured out I needed to stop, and slowly the realization of everything caffeine had been doing to me for years, and years (since my twenties, I’m now almost 62) that started creeping in. I also learned wonderful breathing exercises, really simply in taking air in fully and then breathing out longer than breathing in to allow the parasympathetic system the space to relax and heal the body; which helped also to let go of the reflexes the excess adrenaline had caused me to take one, from years of coffee drinking. And in a way it’s not such a big thing, that’s quite normal for someone who doesn’t have emotional support to start leaning towards such indulgences, and in a normal world, and I mean normal in natural world, not that that’s the “norm,” statistically in this society, but in a normal world people would notice that, and there would be an outlet, and concern and a person would be helped.

    But these celebrities in these times, in many ways, are more paramours for addictions. Selling commodities, getting points to be in the media from corporate powers when they support such venues, and thus the whole array of supporters of everything from who knows what to mental health, and the drug companies propaganda included.

  • And to get to the spiritual side of this, after this addiction (“sorry” I meant addition) to the whole Melange of “iconic” help that’s making things worse…..

    I had found a 20 dollar bill, in a certain place, deciding to give this to a homeless person.

    Well, in that same place, still having the bill waiting, I ran into something impossible, a healer friend of mine having decided to stop giving “psychic” readings, because it made her sick, was killing her, and being at the top of her field, actually liberated from the highest to sort out what REALLY makes a difference, which takes real investigation. I won’t mention which entity showed up, to give me the biggest smile that finally, after the achieved impact while “earthly” and even literary inspirations could finally do something with his investigative abilities that went to the root of things…… But it was a resurrection, which is normal and natural, despite people’s idea that such miracles are crazy….

    And then a day or a few later, getting off of the bus escorting me around there, if not on my bike, or I can put the bike on a bus rack, I was met by a person. I stepped off of the bus, and he said to me: “I’m less than you….”

    Being quite perturbed why anyone would say to me such a thing, not feeling that at all, and what he meant by such an estimation of value… I repeated what he said in a questioning manner asking for some explanation: “You’re less than me?”
    I also said that I don’t talk like that to people, and asked him why he was mad at me, and he said something about how the government treated him, and that that was discriminatory…..

    “That’s discrimination,” he said….

    Then he rode his bike away so fast that I couldn’t respond, or even offer him the 20 dollars, and I could have bought him a whole bag of food, also, suddenly having extra government assistance for that the past few months…..

    But there you have it. If just a fraction of the billions and billions of dollars that go into this act that drugging up the homeless population would make them part of a “working” society, or simply trying a different approach in general, or instead of putting money into fixing vulnerable people up with medications that if they help any, only help a minority, while creating a whole epidemic of the problem as excuse for more of what doesn’t work….. WHAT if that money went to help people to simply be able to live in any kind of comfort!?

    You know TRUE comfort, not an intoxicated state based on image, controlled substances to keep one in fantasy mode and mesmerized but such indulgence that are used as programming to keep people desirous of it, but true true comfort?

    Not I’m a celebrity and I am a hero promoting once again a packet including what’s shown to keep the problem going….

    Not I’m a politician and….

    We don’t even know what to say about that…..

    hmmmmm

    So I simply leave a link to it

    https://www.panarchy.org/dickens/circumlocution.html

    But true simple human comfort.

  • Annie, there’s this part of your beautiful blog that spoke,or rather resonated, with me.
    “Yet, when I look in the mirror, there is someone different staring back at me now. She is older, yes; wiser even, maybe. But still, there is a sadness to her, an unmistakable void. The mirror mocks me, asks, “Why are you still here? Why do you deserve to be on this earth, when so many others are not?” I have no answers, turn away. Although I have pondered this very thought a hundred times, lost countless nights of sleep to it, tossing, turning, I remain perplexed. Despite everything, here I stand all these years later, a soldier still fighting a war with myself.”

    I think we all have that, especially in this society, and if someone doesn’t have this voice asking “why are you still here when so many others are not?” there might be something wrong with them. Same goes for these silly depression screening questions: “Do you want to give up?,. “Do you feel hopeless?” The way society is, our society, with all its superficiality, there’s more maybe something wrong with people that don’t feel that way. Food is entertainment. A more enhanced form of communication bringing the globe together with one click becomes fodder to have pop up ads harass anyone moving through it, new and improved communication not making the communication any more fluid but the ability to harass people with ads when the computers from 10 or more years ago would be still able to otherwise be functional. The physical resources for the new computers punged out of Africa mostly, while they are put together in China which suffers another kind of suppression than all the wars in Africa to keep it’s products cheap and “marketable.” People that own houses are privileged to have the value of them in mortgage sold off and played games with to cause worldwide economic collapse. And to get from one place to the next one has to drive in vehicles that are causing global warming, something I don’t even want to get into, because the answer was there already when they discovered electricity (supposedly for the first time) and stuff too simple and amazing for people to care about was pushed to the side. And so here we go with an answer that no one is supposed to believe in, that was there before the gas tycoons got people addicted to has. What what was known about electricity when it was discovered. Just bear with me, because I can’t push this to the side, although it would seem quite off topic, but isn’t. Heaviside https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Heaviside and others, including theories of Maxwell saw this. Electrons moving at a speed where time stops, being wave patterns that resonate with other wave patterns from other electrons – same as musical vibrations resonate and can cause anything with the same resonance to vibrate – but being from a matrix where (oh these silly scientists) where time has “stopped,” once the resonance has come into being it doesn’t wear out, because time isn’t there to stop it (how can time “stop” by the way. If I can move from here to there but before that had to realize I was at one point before I got to the other, does that mean that “space” stopped as well for me to realize there was one point I moved from and a point I moved to?). If potentials in time resonate with each other that doesn’t mean it has stopped. You can look at black hole theories and see how all black holes resonate with each other, by the way. If time didn’t have potential in order to come together in different resonating ways (like chords in music) then what!? except people have to think further and actually think rather than “perceive” what A Course in Miracles tries to teach. Unity, zero point energy, perpetual motion machine that people have made, displayed, some murdered others suppressed by various means. Recently they stopped killing such people that would “interfere with world economy,” would one be able to make a machine that while it lasts gets “free” electricity rather than having to pay a company that charges for the electricity, but the whole stop global warming movement doesn’t even really acknowledge such machines. And if you don’t believe all of that there still always were other form of getting energy that wouldn’t damage the ozone layer.

    Anyhow, what I was getting at was that all of us have such thoughts. Why are we still here. I do myself. Why some poor struggling family doesn’t have the dwelling I have, why I have food when people are starving in Africa, why I can click on a computer and others have nowhere to call for help when bombed by the latest strategical purge of the militaries of the “civilized” countries?

    But I do go to somewhere deeper with my mind, it does resonate with time, I can let go of stuff and not cause it to repeat, and help all those people I might feel I’m depriving of a life.

    I do also contribute “money” to causes, though…….

    Which brings another thing up…..

    I started donating to Save the Children, actually because when I got on disability I had extra money, wanting to help people, ended up lending it to who I didn’t know was an alcoholic and thus a sociopath, never got the money back, and when I pointed out that the 750 dollars could have sponsored a child with Save the Children for two years I decided to do that, myself. I could feel the energy, at one point. Resonating with the act. One day I was at a church, outside of it which mostly could be safer, and there was a feather laying there, in the dirt. There was a phrase I had been playing with – who knows why – “feathers in the dust creep sideways,” I would have picked it up but had just read that one could get mites from feathers, so I gave it a boost with my foot, and the wind took it up into the air, where it started twirling crazy. It was just too “crazy” for there not to be something else propelling it, the simple joy that it resonated with for me to see that there was something more there than just “?” and then it went and landed or perched in a bush. Within a few weeks or so I got in the mail the beginning here of this poem. It was on a card from Save the Children, Christmas cards they shared with those who were sponsors.

    “Hope” is the thing with feathers —
    That perches in the soul —
    And sings the tune without the words —
    And never stops — at all —

    And sweetest — in the Gale — is heard —
    And sore must be the storm —
    That could abash the little Bird
    That kept so many warm —

    I’ve heard it in the chillest land —
    And on the strangest Sea —
    Yet — never — in Extremity,
    It asked a crumb — of me.

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/%22Hope%22_is_the_thing_with_feathers_%E2%80%94

    But you see, that also transcends the physical, the “perception,” of how things are or how they work, or why one would “deserve” something or not…..

    I did try mentioning this to a “Priest,” and although the bible talks about Elijah being taken up to Heaven by a chariot of fire, he tried to convince me: “it was probably just the wind….”

    As if the miracles that built the whole church were there to provide the safety to convince people such things don’t happen, because they might have to actually think thoughts otherwise, not doctrines…..

  • Willoweed, that very occurrence happened in a blog I just posted in again, concerning someone who took his own life, a musician whose life was canceled by the lockdown, and then of course a psychiatric nurse comes along with the standard plug, delineating exactly what you just shared, and how as you put it so well: “I wonder if a lot of people do not share what is upsetting them because they don’t want to be further insulted and blamed for their emotional response to horrible shit.”

    That’s beyond even how the drugs have been proven to cause more problem than help. If “antidepressants” help marginally more than placebo, if at all, and in the meantime can cause suicidal ideation where does this put even such data, highly corrupted to begin with to even get at marginally helpful. Placebo hasn’t been shown to cause suicidal ideation.

    Anyhow, this stuff is so ridiculous. You’re free to look at that blog here https://slippedisc.com/2021/03/ensemble-leader-39-kills-himself-amid-covid-cancellations/ and can comment yourself. That psychiatric nurse is the on blogging under the name “Sharon.” By some miracle there’s another person (Karl) saying he was worked in the mental health field for years, and has seen people come in with worsening problems because they were ever prescribed anti-depressants.

    It really gets to be something when it’s clearly shown someone had no place to turn, that once again we hear this song and dance number that “sounds” good although in reality upon real investigation is shown to be in collusion with causing the problem.

  • In regarding the second sentence containing the following: “enhance general medical, cognitive, and mental health and wellness.”

    I haven’t been to see a primary care physician in years, exactly because of this idea of “enhanced” medical care. But today I saw one. And sure enough, they are required to do a “depression” test. And one of the two questions the nurse asked me even before I saw the doctor was whether I have feelings of being hopeless, or giving up. All under “enhanced” care. In relaying this to my sister and having the space to actually express how ridiculous this was I finally found myself able to respond in a natural (normal) way. To begin with, given the way society runs, and the amount of insane petty nonsense everyone has to deal with, if you don’t at one point in any given day feel a bit hopeless or have the urge to “give up” I think you actually DO have emotional problems. It’s called denial. And for someone to have such feelings, and not really have the matrix of knowledge or experience to understand the feeling itself, and get this “enhanced” care which involves “medications” which turn OFF your ability to go that one step further and understand why you feel the way you do, as if that’s healing…..

    The other side of the coin, might be having a primary care physician who asks one: “Do you know society is a BITCH, the amount of petty nonsense we all have to deal withe very day, and do you actually feel hopeless and sometimes want to give up, because you SHOULD, that’s normal, it means you aren’t blinded, brainwashed or completely numb and in the danger of becoming clueless” that might be more appropriate, although I don’t really see it happening. Must be my schizo-effective tendencies.

    But it’s completely wrong to not even ask someone what they are upset about, and label the feeling a sign of a disease. And yet that’s consistently what the “medical” profession does.

    And when they have art therapy, is one allowed to express oneself there. What would happen in the asylum, if you wanted to draw the picture a baby being fed not with a baby bottle but with a bottle of pills with a nipple attached?

    A person is supposed to be happy to not be human, to not feel their own feelings, to push to the side the thoughts that explain why they are they way they are?

  • There’s nothing sane about putting “consensus” reality in a position that it determines reality. If reality were based on consensus it couldn’t exist, and so doesn’t in such a “form.” “Medicating” oneself to dowse the mind that actually is relating to reality rather than “consensus” reality, doesn’t make one sane, this isn’t “surviving,” unless one wants to exist as a being controlled by fear that has no soul: the one modern equivalent I can think of would be what happens in J K Rowling’s fiction when one is kissed by a dementer.

    And all the worries, concerns, conceptions of loss and the rest disappear as soon as one simply realizes there is another way. Regardless of how impossible it is made out to be.

    In fact the beginning of your article delineates exactly what causes most of psychosis, and that’s the urgency of the fears of the people around anyone who has begun to drift AWAY from consensus reality, into what might remind them they have a soul.

  • This is all good and well, and I enjoyed reading the article immensely, while listening to Rameau https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGT54QKqOPQ&fmt=22. The problems I see are not so much sociological as defined here, but often religious. Immigrants often come from very religious backgrounds. Have often spent hours praying, and often were left with nothing but that to give them hope. I can imagine their distress in seeing the kind of flagrant abuse of privileges they find in an area where none of the difficulties they encountered exist, and yet they liberated themselves from such problems with simple thoughts of hope and faith. They did not invest in more violent and and more diverse ways of intimidating people to behave according to set rules, while provoking even more dissent against such rules in areas where they exploit resources but not such rules as an excuse for security forces that work.

    I think that THAT causes most of the distress, not toxicity, not climate, not poverty. The one problem I see is that religious environments do often dissuade people from finding the resources they need in the wilderness, actually. And so depending on the economic system to give them such resources DOES cause distress, especially knowing that they would never cause such distress in others they have left behind, and are confronted with doing that or….

    Or doing what?

    The development of corn, for example, a grain that was first just grass but with the help of prayer, time was condensed, and the culture was blessed with the one grain that was nurtured by faith and became a commodity, although “science” would say that it was selective domestication. I disagree. And I don’t see rice, nor wheat, nor potatoes having such a link. My mostly invisible friend has shown me this also, mulching in plastic even, how there’s hope there. I hope this helps.

    Nijinsky

  • Sorry but I’m going to have to disagree with the whole output.

    To begin with, after Joshua Bell’s father got how much money to stick guys saying they WERE already homophobic full of not even pins and needles but “medical” supplies to monitor their reaction to what they didn’t like, as stated already, and would from the abuse called pornography (look it up, as if the bad guy wins, and how much he hurts his partner is salvation) have a stimulant reaction be founding having “internal stressors,”indicating that actually they were homosexual.

    I would suggest that anyone that can read this whole article do a word search for “internal,” and see if they get stimulated, or just bored to death….

    The whole thing is a blinking mess insulting nonsense.

  • What a load of balogna going on too long to have any meaning beyond the first or second scroll or so, and one takes the knife to make it fit in the sandwich.

    To begin with, we’ve always had immune systems, going around in circles, insulting them, all of them, in the process, and then making out we ever had anything to do with how it came out, when we had to finally step out of insulting circles and the immune system, this is “science!?”

    Maybe studying the domestication of cows, and then how all domesticated animals (including lab workers) have been incubating what kills off those that knew better beforehand in the process might bring one to a better understanding of those that did survive, despite knowing better, and being amongst most of those that haven’t or don’t survive. No one asks them, to begin with.

    Oh, and cows give out pus in their milk as well. We have pustules ourselves that collect what it’s made out should help with healing but that’s called “inflation,” along with all the means to stop it. Not Wall street and it’s whole “federal” reserve, but pustules and how much everything is already going to go up again, but the very stuff in our bodies meant to heal is called “inflation,” is called inflammation. Try listening to THOSE bubbles, and stop going on about what you have no idea isn’t going to turn out, and call it “science!”

    And if anyone cared to really study “pustules,” they might find out they have been doing what this RNA replication does to create fragments that liven up the immune system, and have been doing that for ages.

    Or is it going to continue that those that know better are dedicated to science as “trolls” with antennae!?

  • Excuse me, but it’s a “minor” turn off that the temperance movement did what!? If that could help stereotyping that’s a Fable to me. To begin with, 1 )you take away a person’s environment to find out by themselves what something does to them: temperance isn’t going to do that, that’s little doses to keep a person guessing till they’ve been told 2) then there’: they can’t find out what something does to them and keep doing it, thanks to “temperance” 3) not everyone is the same, people have different reactions to different things, how are they going to find out by themselves 4) I have to put something here as four, so why not add that it might change the size of vital organs, not the brain or anything like that, but the ones that are thought of most often 5) and we’re back to the scarlet D!

  • How do you know the thumb sized bug with speckles was of this world? I’ve had one looking just like the guy “Cana-duh” from Peter Pan movie, with Levi Miller. It snuck right back into the drainage pipes of a bathroom, though. Wiggling, just wiggling wiggling its watoosi that looked like it had been stuffed full to the brim with degrees from Harvard, Spam, Oxford and the rest of those Ivy Leagues!

  • Sam: Well. That’s not completely – although I appreciate your appreciation – the truth about: ”those free of it aren’t as much part of the epidemic” because with Peter Pan logic, it’s really those that are free of it that are the most part of the epidemic, because they are the most capable and able healers. Regarding he-who-shall-not be named and you-know-who. But then there’s He-who-has-no-childhood as well, you see? Those that are so humped up they really don’t attach any significance to who they are responding to.

  • It’s concerning to me how much might easily be manipulated here! And would that be easier from one side, just.

    Look into so much, to begin with the movie Born Free, where it starts because there was a man-eating lion, which who said that that’s what was going on. I’m sure they don’t like lions there, when they eat livestock, but does this mean in the US that we should murder anyone that partakes of McDonalds fries. I mean in Iraq now it’s mostly drug wars, rivalry factions of it and the US goes in there and is manipulated to keep it going as if it’s fun.

    And beyond that, where does this help those that actually have a diagnosis. Actually, mind you, not Hollywood beatrics (beatitudes with tricks in there) coming in from nowhere wanting to know how to act out without actually caring about art.

    And the amount of….

    When you go to your doctor and say you have a tooth-ache, but he thinks that it’s a bone fracture from an accident you haven’ t had, but that’s what the book says, and he’s allowed to make you have surgery to fix it, or put your head tied up in a vice when you have to make your living by the skin of your teeth…..

    And you can’t tell the doctor what actually is going or you have Anigsognosia……or rather Anogsognosia. but I mean Anosognosia….

    And I’ve heard this on the bus. A guy had really bad cancer in his head, went to the hospital they’d supply after the treatment that was offered, him being a vet, and they detached his jaw – ask him how that’s done, if you can find him – in order to get into this head, and there they found the cancer that had been in his head, upon entering that place was gone. And I mean of course upon entering that place, was gone.

    Of course I don’t believe him now, but what about then, and WHY do people feel free to lie to anyone with such sensitivity!? And watch their reactions, and keeping going at it till the person is totally confused and not there. This isn’t just psychiatry. It’s anywhere people get together, even at churches!

  • American psychiatric facilities are marketing ECT directly to consumers using false information.

    Should be

    American psychiatric facilities are marketing ECT directly to consumers, using false information.

    With the comma there can be no legal conflagration that you’re saying that the consumer is using false information rather than the company that IS; not only using it but exploiting the need for relief, the need for parental consent, the need for inequality in housing: true medical needs, nutritional…..

  • I would think that the life we all of us have been given or the life we had gifted to us or having been given life it would make more sense to not even talk about impossible things whiile making them out to be real. Either that or give them a wand or other device and tell them they are free to create life with it since they think they also can create “death.” Or maybe without wand or such. Maybe they can conjure it up without any instrument. Maybe even try something as mundane as eating or breathing…

  • Must the discussions in here always dwell on what goes on beyond the physical senses in closed spaces, and behind closed doors?

    Because after awhile, it will end up being so logical that all of us might be needing ashtrays, various other enclosures to meet our needs, in keeping this up and so forth.

    Ooops!

    I mean: “Because after awhile, it will end up being so logical that all of us might be needing ashtrays, various other enclosures to meet our needs in keeping this up, and so forth.”

  • I read this harrowing tale, and then also most of the responses, and I’m sorry but I have one question, which I think must be asked.

    After all of this, isn’t it perhaps better that you get yourself off of all psychiatric drugs, and find a different answer to what’s labeled as OCD than drugs.

    To me that whole story does on all its different levels depict the simple fact that psychiatric drugs cause chemical imbalance and disable the mind.

    I’m not saying that anyone had the right to project their ideology onto you, or tell you what drugs you should be on rather than you were listened to regarding your on viewpoints, I’m simply saying perhaps it’s better to find an other means altogether.

    There’s a site called my good habits https://www.mygoodhabits.com/.com that has good advice on nutrition, and emotional healing techniques; and there are many other alternative sites. I think that’s at least worth looking into.

  • “in the absence of hierarchy humans can’t be human”

    Oh really?

    Those with a “schizophrenic” diagnosis (I even wanted to say “definition” for some reason) actually do better when they haven’t been under mainstream treatment, in fact no treatment at all means they “recover” better. That’s then not human? Same goes for the whole psychiatric industry and its “heirarchy,” those free of it aren’t as much part of the epidemic.

    I really don’t think you’ve defined human, and you’re truly doing what the mental health system does, as well. You created this subgroup and given it hegemony. And decided people not going along with it are non reality based, same as such phrases as those that don’t go with statistical based norms, or consensual reality deportment. Next you need an enemy to make out those not honoring honorifics are putting the group in danger. And thus being human is being separate from all that is human or everyone that is, which hardly could be human.

    You stated:

    “I see discussions are continuing to go around in circles.”

    And then you display exactly what goes around in circles.

    “An authority in any hierachical institution is legitimate because they have been legitimised by the institution to be an authority, and authorised by the institution to command power.

    That’s exactly what doesn’t make something legitimate. That makes it condoned by the institution, but that doesn’t make it legitimate.

    And then you say:

    “Walk into any institution and you can attempt to cause mayhem by pointing out the arbitrariness. And miss the whole point of an institution.”

    So the point is that an institution condones authorities which aren’t legitimate, but then they are legitimate, and this is the point of institutions (at least people think there’s a legitimate authority but that doesn’t have to be legitimate for it to be legitimate)…

    So basically if an authority actually is based on truth it won’t work in an institution….

    Yeah, goes along real well with sacrificing goats, virgins, wars against a fabricated enemy to make people think they are in danger and wage mind control, and psychiatric drugs.

    Because: “in the absence of hierarchy humans can’t be human”

    And thus you’ve also fabricated an idea of hierarchy that doesn’t create a structure. Or that truth only exists if it’s agreed upon, because then it’s institutionally involved then.

    And I’m not at all saying that with brainwashed people, when you can’t get them to question their beliefs, their consensual reality deportment, their whatever’s going on that pretends to be the answer, the title, the definition of who’s who in their nice tight little web of community holding together their closely knit gang; that you can’t just go along and call whoever Doctor, or Priest or Guru or President or Emperor, or First Lady and then maybe make some change and introduce some ideas that from their softness create light that would spread.

    Because it’s NOT about “Doctor” or whatever honorific, so it makes no difference to use it or not, which shouldn’t be why you have to use it either. And neither does using it mean you’re not free to not use it or even not really believe in it when you use it, other than it’s not what it’s made out to be anyhow, so it doesn’t matter.

  • From a medical profession prescribing drugs that are manufactured by businesses that function many ways just like a drug cartel, to medications that cause what they are said to heal (a chemical imbalance that causes the symptoms of psychiatric diseases) to an FDA that suppresses much of what can’t be copyrighted for profit, and you’re talking about snake oil as being fraudulent. I think in many cases snake oil is more healthy.

    And it’s the same “Doctors” that would and still do deny the healing Jesus, and other healers accomplish, Charlie Goldsmith to name one currently active you can investigate, and see how many people he’s helped, and his TV show. That you disbelieve that is your business, but to start making swipes at New Age, and pumping up said “profession” really …..

    The ones pushing their doctorate really aren’t the ones you mention, in fact they aren’t even interested in it. Doesn’t even apply to them. And to mention: “Ancient Quantum UFO Ching” as if that disqualifies everything the same way a psychiatrist would talk about hearing voices, seeing things that aren’t there, having emotional problems when such stuff isn’t given legroom to express itself etc. etc. etc….

    The Chi energy from acupuncture you can’t dismiss anymore, and then there’s their herbal knowledge, the amount of evidence there is that there was an ancient culture that shared technology and built structures that with our present technology would be extremely difficult or impossible, and could have come from aliens this can’t just be ignored; and simple things like the wave-particle duality and how observation effects matter, that shows we aren’t separate from the things we observe, and thus those around us if nothing else points out how emotions effect our lives…..

    And further more, those really aren’t the people calling themselves doctors, or even demanding to have such honorifics, they simply do what comes natural to them, share it with others, and it helps.

    I’ve have stuff healed from such people. I had prostatitis that a man, now deceased, helped heal. Because he showed me “somehow” there’s a place where everything I would think is unforgivable of myself can be washed away. Interestingly the body I saw in that place was from a past lifetime. Regardless of all of that what the medical profession doesn’t really have an answer for went away. And this man mind you, as a child had such healing take place, but this scared the Catholic Church thinking it was a sign of the devil, and he was put in an asylum, giving shock therapy for a year and then forgot all about it till years later his life fell apart, supposedly, and he went back to being himself rather than a piece in society’s machines. And yes, he was deemed as having been given special gifts by the devil, and that shock treatment wouldn’t be uncomfortable to the devil who would loosen his grip on the boy. You can hear his story here, starting 11.53 into the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9edB02jWP0&fmt=22
    And then there’s https://caroleveretthealingsanctuary.co.uk/ who recently helped me get closer to (yes Jesus) and shed the infection in a tooth that wasn’t supposed to go away, and I was told multiple time to get a root canal for instead (I wouldn’t have done that either, I’d have had it pulled, see documentary Rootcause https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrhyAAUNw6M and other very articulate scientific exposés that the dental industry suppressed and from being known because root canals are their biggest bread winner or who knows why, like the drug companies and psychiatric drugs) Carol then doesn’t say she heals anything, she brings down the higher energies.

    That’s two definite healings that the medical profession couldn’t have accomplished for me, and further more I’m truly simply interested in healing that’s spiritual and then beyond that healing regarding “symptoms” of a psychiatric diagnosis I shouldn’t have to go on more about that here. And I could go on for pages about metaphysical or “impossible” things happening when I was “psychotic.”

    And then there’s Charlie Goldsmith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-gQ6oBDpB4 who simply pointed out that feelings are meant to be felt, and when i realized I was pushing them away because they hadn’t been accepted, I got away from reflexes like drinking too much coffee that, although they expressed that I wasn’t allowed to express my feelings, didn’t give them direct leeway for legroom. Carol’s healing method where she asks people to sit quietly for 20 minutes twice a day also helped for me to see what my reflexes had become, what I could let go of, from little scenarios of dreams I could interpret.

    And then there’s many more

    Leaholof http://leaholof.blogspot.com/

    there’s Dean Kraft

    http://www.deankrafthealer.com/CaseHistories.html

    There’s Michael Stellitano

    There’s many more

    And what’s interesting about your sarcastic post is that many “New Age” people think they have such abilities when they don’t, or that they know better, as do many “Christians” deciding such things aren’t from God (who knows why, indoctrination, no honorific from the church, same as the pharisees, same as what happened to Gene Egidio)…

    But there’s simply is a difference between healing that happened, and those condoned with an honorific. To make snide remarks about people who are needing no honorific, never having asked for one, and simply are healing, but then to be made out to who knows what because they heal and want to help people, and can, and should be allowed to without hindrance, and that means those that have been told they can rather than accomplishing such feats have to show a little curiosity or some humility some reality based thinking rather than indoctrinated programming as their identity, their excuse…..

    And you can go on an on, maybe you need to, but you’re not going to convince me.

    And at least on this site I can share my viewpoints, my experiences, share links for those interested, and not be dismissed because I don’t have whatever title, or who knows what….

  • Yes, that’s true JanCarol, but there is this issue in the news about the future first lady, and I don’t know..

    Maybe there’s more click bait mentioning her, and someone who might be steered the wrong direction from the “medical” authorities would stumble on this site, and it might save them from years of having to deal with a disabled mind from “treatment,” instead finding something that does help.

    I’m trying to think of a funny example how the title of a book is important. But I sort of fail. The Scarlet Letter for example. If that was called “Historical Concepts of Sin,” that rather falls short. Or. “The Minister that Didn’t Know Where to Put it,” also….. Or worse than that, since we’re talking about honorofics, which “Minister” is one of. “Minister Dimmsdale and his word-that-also-starts with-D-but-might-cause-trouble-being-mentioned,” and if you want to be less colliquial there are also the letters P or L. Neither of which the Minister had to have embroidered on his robes.

    And Why honorifics start with D (doctor) P (professor or priest) or M (man…oops I mean minister)!?

  • JanCarol, Sara has already stated that this argument is about whether honorifics use is appropriate in general not about whether anyone has truly worked hard to reach that level when it is in practice, but that should show in their work, not a title enforced by an institution. And her asking whether there’s a better way doesn’t mean she’s putting beliefs in your mouth.

    That an honorific denotes respect is questionable, certainly in this day and age, which it is currently, when so much including education is controlled by corporate interests. Colleges in the USA became fronts for investment institutions in the early 80’s: not exactly investment institutions but fronts for them.

    I stated how it works regarding the economy, and how the whole process of who gets “respect” can be in collusion with poverty. Something that deserves being noted in this blog where the emotional symptoms of poverty can be diagnosed as a psychiatric disease, to cover all of that up. That also becomes more than simply taking charge of one’s life and working hard, and having a piece of paper giving one “respect” beyond those who are seen to have personality flaws that they don’t or/nor can’t. And what I wrote wasn’t at all ‘merely “poverty vs. riches”’ it was a clear explanation of how an honorific can be in collusion with creating poverty. In fact to bypass all of what I said in order to make claims that I was lacking nuance truly on your part is a lack of nuance.

    “We called him Doctor; he earned this. It was more than a piece of paper, it was his growing identity. Something which made him stand out from the pack – his family, his friends, he achieved all of this on his own.”

    You also state that

    “He remembers standing in line to get shoes, ashamed that he had to beg for them. ”

    That’s a lot of concern for “identity” and whether one has enough money or a piece of paper. And a society that engenders shame depending on whether you have to stand in line to get shoes really has extreme problems with what pride would be would it be there instead of “shame.”

    It sounds like your father really had it hard, as did everyone during the depression, but you don’t mention how he helped others, you mention he stood out from the pack, that doesn’t say he was respected for his work but that because of the honorific he stood out from them. And what about the pack he stood out from, and their poverty? Someone to me would stand out from the pack when they have done something that earns respect from them, rather than a piece of paper enforced by an institution. Neither are business institutions often those that help others in poverty, although again someone that worked their way up in such is made out to deserve respect.

    If your father truly helped others, and acquired respect anyone would have without being in a field where an honorific is doled out including when they are, everyone would be glad to hear that. But to get offended and display resentments hitting on straw-man arguments as if having a viewpoint about honorifics is an insult to your father, this is not what Sara stated. I wonder how much can’t be said or it’s seen as an insult or getting in the way of respect. Working hard for a degree and getting an honorific is working hard for a degree and getting an honorific, that says nothing about what a person has done for their community or for others, or what kind of respect they engendered simply by their actions themselves, not whether they have an honorific, and how much work that’s seen to have entailed. A person who has completely been disenfranchised by society can work quite a bit harder just to still see beauty in the simplest things, and not lose it.

    YOU are the one that said you were disgusted because you thought chiropractors didn’t work as hard as you did for their degree, again hitting on the idea of working hard, as if that only occurs at an academic level and what kind of a degree you get. To speak of taking nuances out of a discussion. Nuances also aren’t dressing up personal resentments, and then accusing others of not being nuanced when they delineate there’s more to the argument beyond your “nuance.” You don’t know how hard chiropractors work to be up on stuff what the medical profession might dismiss, regarding alternative health, and there are all sorts of avenues they support that go beyond what one would get steered towards, or even would be allowed to be steered towards from a “Doctor” of medicine. That takes a lot of work beyond what’s simply put forth from a curriculum from an institution doling out said honorifics or not, recently quite controlled by corporate interests as a front for an investment institution. That again also effects where the money goes, and who has a decent or easy income or not. This doesn’t change whether one has a doctoral in business either. And you twice now have mentioned that someone who does get such rewards works harder. I don’t agree, and consequently I can only further question whether that’s taking charge of one’s life.

    And I don’t know what your problem with a chiropractor was, but I do know that the medical profession has been quite active in trying to legally suppress their practice, which despite considerable action hasn’t worked, because chiropractors DO help people, whether you’re disgusted as to what you interpret as hard work or not. I also mentioned the problems there used to be with insurance, and with some HMOs still are in place, although chiropractors CAN help people and in my case to avoid completely unnecessary surgery and other damage and trauma to the body. That that isn’t seen as medical, or respected, or that the “medical” profession would try to prevent people from having a free choice regarding insurance, or acknowledged status is truly oppressive. That’s way beyond: A chiropractor helped you but they didn’t help me, so what can I say? I don’t know what your problem was with a chiropractor, but I think a lot of people don’t like having gone to a chiropractor because when the discs are adjusted to be more aligned, this brings up problems in behavior or posture and muscles that have gotten used to being used in-properly or out of balance points this out with pain trying to encourage them to change their habits, which they don’t, and then they have a problem. The same with a nutritionist, people don’t like changing to a healthier diet when when they have become accustomed to an unhealthy one; but then again the medical profession often isn’t even privy let alone articulate regarding such sensitivities.

    There are MANY people on this site who have SEVERE problems with their medical doctor or psychiatrist, both with honorifics. Chiropractors you say disgust you when they call themselves a doctor, which they are allowed to do but not call themselves medical doctors (although recently they have to do a lot more medical training to get their degree), but it’s fine to be a doctor of whatever else when it’s not seen as medical. Business for example.

    And what about the people on this site who may simply for emotional reasons need to hear that said honorific doesn’t mean what it’s made out to be, people who have been truly tortured by their psychiatrist, and they can’t even say that it didn’t help them without being seen as non compliant!?

    And that ISN’T just a topic to be dismissed as inappropriate because of “linguistics.”

    I also find that your comments are riddled with mirrored statements. You dismiss the nuances or counterpoint of a statement and then say there’s no nuance to the discussion, because your points were challenged, that regarding the collusion with honorifics and business for example. And when Sara simply asks a question you can answer regarding the potential of whether there’s another way to gender respect than an honorific, you act as if she was putting beliefs on your mouth. I see that more as how you misinterpreted what she truly stated, and thus put beliefs on her.

    Initially reading your response I thought, yeah, of course an honorific can mean something to a hard working person, and then they have some respect in their lives to get through the day, and have some pride; but when you dismiss nuance saying it’s lacking because people share valid counterpoint regarding the content of your post, and then the straw man arguments, I truly have lost that although I can still see it in others who might want a honorific…

  • I wonder whether you could be a bit more candid?

    When you say that getting a doctoral was a way out of poverty for you father, you expose quite clearly how it’s about money (same as psychiatry and pill pushing, and guilds and wallstreet); thank you.

    And then you’re disgusted that chiropractors would call themselves doctors because you “know that their degree was probably easier than” yours. I had such a problem with one side of my hip that I couldn’t bend over to tie my shoes properly, I went to a clinic (“med” clinic) and the “Doctor” there even quite glibly mentioned how the “insurance” wouldn’t pay to see a chiropractor, and actually mentioned how if the problem with my back and the pinched nerve didn’t go away, they would do surgery. And this was standard “procedure” for a “med” clinic at that time (twenty years ago or so). So, I went to a chiropractor, paid for it myself, and the problem went away within a week or so. The chiropractor even called the insurance (I had a pinched nerve that prevented me from moving properly, which would have lead to greatly inhibited ability to move were it not fixed, which he accomplished WITHOUT the trauma of surgery) but they wouldn’t pay for me to see him. Years went by, I had gone to see the chiropractor every month or every two months, but then stopped; and acquiring neck problems (and paying to see the chiropractor really wasn’t something I easily could afford as all) found out that the HMO I had had to change to in order to get therapy would pay for 18 chiropractic sessions a year. Within two years my life has change, although I had to find exercises on my own, change my diet, allow thoughts or emotions some legroom they hadn’t been encouraged to have before, learn how to meditate to calm myself; but the chiropractor helped beyond measure; when the “Doctor” would probably promote insulin shots. And I really don’t think that having to do research that’s not in the mainstream money market, to actually help people in a way that an “honorific” and it’s “privileges” would bypass, that that means that their degree was easier than yours. For one thing, I doubt that after accumulating a degree (wherever they put it), that they as easily believe that they have made it, because it was so much hard “work.”

    The arguments you make as to why the honorific should be honored (“working one’s way out of poverty”, “a medical stance that caused more work to get than others”) is exactly what psychiatrists would use to excuse why they continue needing the “lifestyle” and why they are the “authority”. I don’t know how this would be inappropriate for this site, other than the logic is inherent rather than in your face. Insurance companies often don’t pay for therapy going beyond such a grip on how the market works for those with such privilege, and people who truly need help consequently don’t have funding for what would help, ending with what doesn’t (might suppress a symptom temporarily causing more problems in the long run which calls for more “treatment” and more money feeding the “honorific”), further perpetuating the divide between poverty and those that have more privilege. And to pull your way out of poverty becomes being assimilated into getting an honorific, and promoting what doesn’t help; while those who are stuck needing something else but sticking to what truly helps means poverty, disenfranchisement, total confusion as to what the bleep is going on, having to find answers way beyond the “hard work” of those with an “honorific,” and not having it acknowledged when those answers are found; but heh oh: I” am Doctor so-and-so and pulled my way out of “poverty”!? “

    You can gripe about chiropractors and functional doctors, but that is where the trend is going as to who really can help. That’s for people to decide, not those who feel they have “worked” so hard, and pulled themselves out of “poverty” and consequently feel they deserve an “honorific.”

    For ANYONE to say an honorific is something they deserve because of fill-in-the-blank work they have done, when others don’t see it that way or their ability to function is complicated by it, is quite abusive. Honor is something that comes from people who honor you, not from a title given by an institution that enforces it.

  • Yeah, but that’s perceived credibility and can be downright brainwashing regarding whether what’s perceived truly is credible. In response to: “I think you’re referring here to how credibility is sometimes much more about power and social capital than it is about being in possession of real quality information, and with that I couldn’t agree more.” And it’s often not low quality information or even lack of it, it’s too often deceptions, modeling arguments with statements that look like they are formulated: as in A plus B equals C whether or not A plus B equal anything at all but it sounds good, and scientific and logical; and quite covert lies covering up the truth, which is known to a select few.

    I really, in becoming part of the marginalized crowd, after years of actually looking quite soberly at what goes in the arena of condoned knowledge, and really carefully sorting through alternative information as well as personal experiences, I find an incredible amount of what goes on at educational institutions quite corrupt, particular higher learning where one gets a profession or not with a paycheck. That doesn’t mean there aren’t good teachers in there, but they have to know how to play the system, or they have somehow got a name for themselves which can’t be ignored. This type of doling out “knowledge” also goes for religion promising an afterlife, or the image of being a good person, or as you mentioned in another post their description of “God.” That’s also mind control, to tell everyone they are under attack by said evil entity (the Archfiend) and you need the church or you’ll end up in the lake of fire for eternity when not part of their movement, is the same as what all dictators have done knowing when you make people think they are under attack you can control them. And for the corporate process, how they have suppressed whatever doesn’t go with their profit margin, and an unbelievable amount of wonderful truly amazing technology using the idea that it’s impossible in order to convince people it’s fraudulent when it isn’t, while suppressing it ever being put into production for the general public to find out and robbing mankind of really amazing stuff….

    Maybe I’m just jaded, but…

  • I dunno. Doctor Trump does have a rather objective clinical ring to it (I did spell wring correctly?)

    Because I was musing about this and realized I had completely forgotten what this had to do with Jill Biden…..

    Anyhow.

    The last time I used the prefix https://wikidiff.com/prefix/title “Doctor” it was to exemplify how someone goes and gets a badge because they really can’t support their “teachings” without it: stuff that wouldn’t stand by itself – I obviously use the word stand loosely, that while when you replace the word go from the phrase “go to class” with stand or sit, it pretty much points out one’s status –, the same with the term “Professor.” In fact, when I used that adjective – not title – a policeman in the parking lot where I just exited the bus heard me, and responded: “He’s jealous,” which unlikely referred to the one with the prefix. But then anything with fix in it might already be inappropriate.

    Saddest thing, is that those who were here to begin with, and knew the land, knew nature, knew the seasons, knew the stars; they are even more likely to be killed by police than Blacks, and that’s mostly from safety checks by the police regarding “mental illness.” It’s those people that had knowledge then that we all need to know by now, and…..

    But yeah, you can say: “Doctor” or “Sir” or “Professor,” or even “President” and really mean obnoxious loudmouth, with perhaps no one the wiser.

    Here’s then an actual tweet shared from a Doctor, which might denote something different than the prior (very obnoxious) interpretation of mine https://twitter.com/l3580/status/1310590842747285505

    And just in case anyone is quite confused by now. If such a wise one gives you a test, and you have to chose between, A) adjective, B) title and C) prefix regarding what “Doc” is, and you really need the right answer for him, it’s C. That’s because he (or she) is a professional. And don’t tell them it’s what you call a document, and could be the extension for a word processor file, being that it’s the way documents are filed on a computer, he doesn’t need to know you know that, he might not understand, he’s just too busy, consequently he might think you completely don’t know what Doc is.

  • Just to be clear:

    “psychosis”

    “bipolar”

    With the italics used to describe what’s really a spiritual experience, a breaking away from accepted limitations to see things that are real but not even considered as possible, the words: “psychosis,” and “bipolar 1” with the italics, the italics look like angel wings. And, Ekaterina, with your picture, I noticed you’re standing holding your two hands rather like people do when they make a movement with their fingers to denote what they said is meant to be in italics. Perhaps again transforming the diagnosis of who you are supposed to be to something more real, and spiritual.

    I hope you find a gentle wind to sail in, to glide in, or a gust to soar in, or a lull to gently hover in….

    Whatever it is, you have those “”

  • ‘I was diagnosed as bipolar at the age of 27 because I tend to experience what is classified as “psychosis,” a beautiful, incredible experience on my part, but let’s keep it medical and classify it as “bipolar 1.” ‘ Sometimes italics are just angel wings fluttering…

  • Since the topic has come up for actually reading the article, which I had, but went back to look closer, and something I might have wanted to have been left where it might not have jumped out, did do that. From reading the article. Again.

    “There’s a lot of criticism flung at both the Neurodiversity movement and the Mad Pride movement that we are bad for people who are called low functioning. I call bullshit on that. I think the real threat is that we’re talking about the so-called low functioning people like they are peers. We’re talking about them and us as if there is no “them and us,” just us. In short, we’re interacting with people as if they are just that—people.”

    I don’t believe that those getting the peer support,  from where it’s given, really can be guaranteed to be listened to, completely. Including them in and stating you’re seeing them as human might come across as heroic, but this could be in correlation with causing low functioning?

    As long as you see yourself as disabled, get “treatment” for it. Call yourself neurodivergent, promote this as “mad pride,” then it’s a whole group of “us” rather than low functioning people, when in reality there’s quite a bit of correlation with exactly that causing disability, thus low functioning.

    And I question what “neuro” has to do with it?

    Someone that’s brainwashed (insecure, needs to fit in to feel they are valid) and sends such signals through his nerves (which are there just to be there, whether you use them for this or for that), with the consequent effect, can call himself “neuro” divergent, as well. But someone who’s healthy, doesn’t strain his nerves, they’re not “divergent” enough, and yes, I’m really saying that perhaps people with a “diagnosis” might have, initially more healthy nerves than those doing the diagnosing. Which is what was going on before it was supposed to be from the “nerves” and thus could be called “neuro-divergent” thanks to that they’re supposed to want to be somewhat “normal” or fit in; which already isn’t normal, unless that means abnormal use of nerves (because the majority strain it (nerves) in an abnormal manner: thus abnormal straining of nerves is normal). See, it’s marvelously circular.

    Make sure that divergent part of yourself is straining itself to have something to say, and fit in with what says you’re saying something, and then it’s normally abnormal: the good fight, no pain no gain.

    Neither do I find it out of place to mention – again – that psychiatric treatment shows more to be putting strain on the nerves than to….

    To have such strange driving laws, or guards on how one pays attention to what one is doing, to cause enough accidents that there are many cars with dents, and then start talking about body-divergent cars, and group them all together (also causing more accidents, in fact even a whole spike in them); and say you’ve made a movement about divergent car bodies; this DOES leave out the rather strange laws and “guards” on behavior that lead to all of that. Why would that be?

  • I’m sorry Dana, although I greatly respect what you’re trying to put forth, that you see “Autism” as something that can be seen more as an innate trait of a whole aspect of the human population, and how you can see yourself reflected in others, and how this phenomenon can be respected and nurtured; but I don’t feel you have responded fairly to what beokay wrote, and it’s clear to me that beokay did read your blog. To say, please read the blog before commenting, when there’s a challenge to what you wrote, is a rather standard accusation people make. Beokay simply brought up a very valid question regarding what you said, that really doesn’t meant that they didn’t read your blog, that means they question something in it or wish to bring in further dialogue that expands the context.

    Beokay and other people here have responded with extreme concern, and have truly valid concerns. It’s wonderful that you have come to terms with the term “autism” but that doesn’t mean it’s not seen as hate speech by other people, or something that has confused them extremely and was forced on them without their own understanding, nor does it mean that they were given the space to offer input from themselves as to what they felt was going on rather than just being told what’s going on with them from others, with the whole stance of objectivity and authority (which Sam Plover pointed out). You yourself say it’s an umbrella diagnosis. And you also don’t mention the whole matrix of people who might have the same symptoms, but never had to deal with the psychiatric labeling, don’t want to be involved with labeling that is psychiatric, don’t want a psychiatric label, don’t want to be called “autistic” and have a whole other insight into it, which might be more holistic. And you might be truly at a loss to not know how people were at peace who had no need of such diagnosis, although they did, or do, or will have, the same symptoms.

    You list such things as not looking at people, being more sensitive to ambient sounds and dialogue, being upset when you trip; but those are just experiences, to list those as symptoms, and bring in this “diagnosis” can very much take away understanding, and rob people (other people who are uncomfortable with the diagnosis) of seeing that they are fine the way they are, that it’s just something innate to them that’s different. That you found peace there, can be something very different for others. That’s what others were trying to point out who have seen that.

    You can say it’s not a psychiatric illness, but that’s more wishful thinking on your part than reality. No, the symptoms may not be, but the word is. Autism is seen as a psychiatric illness. The diagnosis does confuse a lot of people, and it’s also used to promote psychiatric drugs, or treatment that only analyses their behavior rather than acknowledging what might be going on that goes against medical hegemony, or diagnosis based on behavior rather than relating to the person. Behavior you can program a robot to do, but relating to a person is something more human than that.

    And to say it’s not over-diagnosed when it might be used to say there’s a genetic flaw although there’s evidence pointing out that it’s the environment, but that evidence is not acknowledged, that’s really overlooking something that shouldn’t be overlooked.

    What if toxicity can cause what’s diagnosed as Autism, whether or not the symptoms are the same as yours, but the term is used? What if vaccines or other unacknowledged issues can cause Autism. What if modern schooling and forcing a person to have to deal with a social environment they don’t feel comfortable with, or having to be inundated with standard curriculum that doesn’t really interest them or that they understand too readily or too slowly, or a whole list of other things causes what’s labeled as a neurological disorder called Austism?

    When the documentary vaxxed is suppressed, when a documentary about root canals (also quite articulate with scientific data that’s uncomfortable for mainstream standard practice) is suppressed, when Charlie Rose can have someone on his show touting that they know psychiatric illness comes from a brain malfunction while completely not sharing the one scientific truth that’s the clearest, and that psychiatric treatment causes brain malfunction (chemical imbalance, addiction, deterioration); how much does this come from corporate interested calling themselves medical and making money off of it rather than truth. And all the rest of it: sugar, caffeine, pesticides, fluoride, food coloring, preservatives, gluten and other stuff that’s proven to cause swelling and can be bad for your intestines (another sign of “autism”)…all stuff that can be overlooked when someone is “diagnosed.”

    You and others may have strong feelings about what I just inserted in the prior paragraph, as to whether that’s valid or not; but typically ONE or TWO of those things will be singled out to invalidate all of the rest. Instead you get the diagnosis, which in such a case is really over-diagnosis. That’s more than just umbrella diagnosis, that’s a smoke screen.

  • Very well said.
    I have a “schizophrenia” diagnosis, or schizo-effective or something like that. What I’ve learned is that a part of my mind simply will spill out scenarios, just like in a dream, that are trying to tell me what’s going on, especially when I’m in a situation where I wasn’t encouraged to question what’s going on. Over the years I’ve learned to understand that language, and that IS what it is: a legitimate language, like imagination is. I could say that would I drink too much coffee or smoke cigarettes this might lead to a “psychotic” break, but that’s not what it’s about, it’s that my mind is trying to communicate something, and it’s actually the “psychotic” break that would tell me how to take care of myself, would I be allowed to learn the language, to understand it, to see it for what it is, despite that “society” doesn’t want its statistical based norms and consensual reality deportment challenged to such a degree (both are terms I picked up that are used as a means towards diagnosis). And when the feelings one wasn’t allowed to express consciously are allowed to have a subconscious language that’s legitimate than one is better able to take care of oneself, even better than what’s considered “normal.” Just not drinking that much coffee or not smoking cigarettes isn’t going to magically give legroom to the feelings, experiences, insights and other unconscious motives that needed expression; although realizing what I was resorting to because those feelings had become uncomfortable given the lack of acceptance in my environment, that acknowledges the feelings rather than a reaction to non acceptance as being “bad.”

    THAT said, I’m not going to say that “schizophrenia” is under-diagnosed, because I’ve come to terms with it, and know of others who have. “Schizophrenia” is a false narrative, stating that’s it’s a biological disease, and further more when the “treatment” is scientifically verifiable as something that causes biological disease, something the alleged disease can’t be pinned down to be causing, and when there IS a biological cause that’s truly medical causing distress that causes trauma that causes “symptoms” of “schizophrenia” this often being overlooked to promote the brain disabling “treatment” that’s said to be needed, and when most “treatments” of “schizophrenia” correlate with a spike in the “condition,” or rather a spike in mislabeling it, not treating it for what it is, causing loss of life, disability, more societal phobia, more stigma, a suppression of alternative methods that do correlate with healing and understanding, and empathy, and compassion that’s true rather than patronizing; given all of that and more, I really don’t think that saying that “Schizophrenia” isn’t “over-diagnosed” is going to support seeing it for what it truly is, would it be anything at all. Not even when I see an extreme lack in society of understanding imagination, dreams, the language of the subconscious and the innate part of being human that expresses itself such.

    And I don’t see that an “Autism” diagnosis is much different at all. There are a whole plethora of causes that are suppressed, when they don’t fit the mainstream medical model, there are people that can relate to “Autism” in a way that relates to the person rather than to symptoms that have to be eradicated rather than understood and related to, and the use of psychiatric medications for Autism can only be leading to the same problems (and lies, as if it’s treating a valid chemical imbalance rather than causing one and causing biological disease in the meantime)…

    To be really radical and confrontative about it, it’s like saying that the F word for homosexuals or the N word for those of another race are not over-diagnosed, as if we are dealing with a valid diagnosis to begin with. Psychiatric diagnosis in many ways fall under hate speech, that’s simply the truth. How that can be convoluted with stating that it’s not over-diagnosed, when people point out it’s become what it has (an easy target)? And when one is offered another diagnosis instead, this only points out how ridiculous diagnosis are, it doesn’t make ANY at all statement regarding the validity of another “diagnosis.”

  • There’s two things going on, at least, probably more, but to stick with (2):

    There ARE a lot of people who are forced on an autism diagnosis, and that’s done in a way to make them clinically think there’s something wrong with them, I’ve heard this from a therapist I know even. They told me how they were frustrated with people who use the diagnosis as an excuse, the same way someone would say that they have a physical condition preventing them from physical activity someone ends up defining their cognitive, emotional and even spiritual abilities, as if they simply can’t fill-in-the-blank. When this is done in a way that shuts down a person’s ability to relate to themselves, no matter how kindly this is done, no matter how much a “therapist” believes that they are helping a poor diseased person understand their reactions, this is Munchausen NOT therapy. And all of the hallmark card niceties, all of the candy sweetness and all of the coy singsong tone that this is administered with doesn’t change that. And you can end up getting the whole psychiatric system giving rewards when one sees themselves that way, and have it be disabling rather than empowering. There’s often no excuse made for REAL physical problems that could be causing the problems listed as autism which could be coming from a whole number of sources, and yes I believe that vaccines can cause brain damage, which is even listed as a side effect OF them. Beyond that there’s nutrition, environment in general, and if you believe people have a soul and reincarnate there could be emotional challenges at a soul level, as far out in left field as that seems, that should be acknowledged if a person has such curiosity, or they could just be someone who processes life differently, someone who needs legroom to work out their own feelings, thoughts, intuitions, experiences and instincts about something rather than following rote guidance, social patterns, indoctrination or other “authorities”. All of that is largely dis-acknowledged by psychiatry or the medical community.

    And then you have people that simply are different, that have their own inner world that’s as real and as strong, or more prominent, than what’s called the objective world. Every great creative artist in a way has to be of such an ilk, they have to be able to relate to a world where emotions take on a reality beyond the world that’s physically tangible, because they are working with how emotions create an architecture that somehow brings out the meaning or the purpose of life (and thus the beauty), and that can’t be tangible because it melds with what’s called the future and remains beyond our grasp but urges us on with hope. Or anyone that simply processes life by being in their own world, having their own innate completely individual way of doing things, regardless of what the norm is, or how they are supposed to behave to not be made to feel they are weird.

    I completely understand how frustrating it is when you’ve grown to understand the part of yourself that’s functional on its own, without having to adapt to social norms, and that then what you call autism you don’t see as being over-diagnosed. But WHY is the word “diagnose” even involved. That’s QUITE a misnomer, of not a very misleading red herring. What does it have to do with what a diagnosis is? I wouldn’t go to my doctor to be diagnosed as an artist or not; I wouldn’t even go to the creative community in order to be accepted as such or not. Neither would feel I wasn’t a chef when whatever recipe I thought was worth imbibing didn’t end up on the menu at MickDonuts (I might possibly not be naming a restaurant due to “intellectual” copyright laws)….

    I wouldn’t even go to MickDonuts if they gave me an extra prize that said “artist” on it, just for buying their… *ahem*

    Oh, excuse me, I meant their diagnosis, I got a little lost there for a moment….

  • I agree completely.

    This one part of a quote of Justice Stevens is quite amazing: “As for deterrence, he said that because such people were more likely to act on impulse than were other people, the death penalty’s existence was less likely to come to their minds to inhibit them from committing capital crimes.”

    I found this easily enough, even from google, which points out the death penalty isn’t a deterrent:

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/a-clear-scientific-consensus-that-the-death-penalty-does-not-deter/

    And what kind of ground are we standing on when one doesn’t kill one person in order to not allow another person to kill you, or someone else? Which I’m not saying to excuse killing someone: anyone, including the person that’s supposed to be deterred by believing killing another person for just means is how one creates discipline and a working society, and if he doesn’t murder someone, he gets to demand someone be executed.

    You put forth the idea that executing someone is a deterrent, and you quake people who are trained to do exactly that, kill people to prevent people from killing people. It’s also against human nature to want to kill another person, that’s not natural. In the army, they have to brain wash soldiers to see the enemy as inhuman; that’s also what corporate media does with a whole range of people, cultures, and even countries, when they need to paint something as evil. That for a population that already thinks being alarmist is what maintains safety. People who are brainwashed to not feel safe unless they see some danger at large they are actively fighting against, whether it’s really there or not. That’s all seen as necessary for societal well being, when in reality it does exactly the opposite; it creates the problems it says it’s exposing while denying how it’s causing them, and then covers that up.

  • I just read that myself somewhere, someone’s “mental health” and then they say he didn’t reach out for help.
    Here: ‘He struggled with ethical problems in medicine, his growing depression and corona isolation. He may not have asked loudly enough for the needed help.’
    From this article. https://slippedisc.com/2020/10/violinist-who-became-doctor-takes-his-life-during-covid/

    And then the issue of ethical problems in medicine is brought up…
    And in “mental health” is there an ethical issue regarding practice, or that there’s more recovery when there isn’t any…. um practice, that is

  • boans, but that’s like trying to… I don’t know what to say…

    They think they are trying to help you, and you’re being non compliant, and/or resisting, or whatever it adds up to for them to decide they can assault you, even lie (who was it that is recorded as advising parents to knock chairs over to make it look like their child is violent, when trying to get your child committed!? And that man has been on Charlie Rose who had a whole series acting like they “know” that mental illness is because of a chemical imbalance, and that medications are necessary, rather than they are with true articulate science the one cause of chemical imbalance that can consistently be found in psychiatric treatment, something the alleged diseases do not show to be in true science)…

    When you compare them to ISIS, they only are going to decide further you’re non compliant etc..

    They don’t see it as assault, and they don’t see all the damage they do as damage; they can’t see that when other methods help people but don’t validate theirs that they might have to question what they are doing; they don’t see that when there’s absolutely simple explanations for what’s going on which antidote their alarmist habits, that they are being alarmist;

    And the craziest thing is that you can’t reason with them, which is what they decide about you, because you actually are reasonable; you actually have to believe insane things or act like you do, in order to get by them.

  • I really find this too easy, given how we are supposed to see things, to mention the Islamic State. As if they have anything to do with Islam to begin with, and further more, if you are referring to ISIS, that was a Caliphate that was allowed or encouraged to grow by the US and allied powers, thinking they would help take down Syria, which again is another strategical interest gone sour, like Osama bin Laden was, who first was hired by the US to mess up Aghanistan before that went the other direction. And this is endless, not to speak of people calling themselves Christian that destroyed and are still destroying beautiful peace loving and nature loving indigenous cultures all over the planet. If one is going to make remarks concerning extremism or fundamentalism, one really only has to look in one’s backyard: Rhode Island, for example.

  • Kristen, I wouldn’t be so quick to go on that their motivations were money. Because this kind of story happens and can happen at just about any psychiatric institution, regardless of whether they are making a profit or not. It’s maybe best not to try to make anything out of what they were doing, other than point out how unprofessional it was. They otherwise might try to make out you’re paranoid. I’m not saying money wasn’t involved, because the whole phenomenon is driven by guilds, corporate media and wallstreet investments; so even if that one hospital wasn’t trying to make more money, it’s still further up the ladder; and they would list supposed medical concerns just like that, either way, and could and/or might try to make you out to be paranoid or making up conspiracy theories.

    I don’t think that psychiatrists often can differentiate between how they have been indoctrinated to interpret what they call symptoms, and what’s really going on. Your story points that out quite sufficiently, that they couldn’t tell the difference between normal symptoms of heat stroke, and mania from bipolar, then adding on, it becomes hard to remember all of it…

    What would linisopril have to do with a normal heat stroke? And then they bring up a false diagnosis of “stable, non-bleeding arteriovenous brain malformation.” which you now know was “a developmental venous anomaly, a harmless, symptomless, birth defect that occurs in 1 out of 50 people. So symptomless and harmless that it is rarely detected except at autopsy. A brain AVM, the original diagnosis, being much more serious although considered stable. DVA’s by comparison, don’t hemorrhage/bleed” The Linisopril would have been for the false diagnosis? And the bipolar diagnosis just shows what it shows, it reads like some kind of magic fundamentalists believe in, and you’re not even allowed to attribute what happened to a heat stroke anymore.

    I really wonder whether the doctor asking you whether you wanted a catscan already had other ideas in his head, which is then what spelled itself out over the next 11 days, anyhow. that’s how they got you in the system anyhow. I’m assuming that if you had said you didn’t want a catscan you could have walked free and wouldn’t have been available for them to start making up more stuff. Having said you wanted a catscan did that make you available for them to start trying to pin bipolar on you, or would they have tried that anyhow? And if they had that in their minds, would not wanting a catscan have prevented making you available? Such people really simply aren’t in their right minds anymore, when they think a “mental disorder” is going on. And they then think a person doesn’t know themselves what’s going on with them. And society increasingly has the same phobias, which I think is what your lawyer was trying to point out. You should simply be able to point out how what they did was false at many levels now, already. They can’t even see that it’s a simple sun stroke, and were wrong about the brain abnormality.

    You can imagine how fundamentalist some people are. And the only way they can believe in “bipolar” in many ways is by being alarmist, because the science involving it doesn’t really add up beyond their statements that they don’t really know how the brain works although they can’t really prove it’s a chemical imbalance (while their “medications” have been proven to cause chemical imbalance), and that they believe that they are making headway with “compelling” evidence, while the treatment that’s been put in place has caused a whole epidemic of the problem rather than a lessening, and thus you have more alarm rather than reason and logic.

    In fact, to deal with all of it and not completely lose it, you have to be quite a bit more informed that the “normal” person, and to not lose it you have to have more compassion with people who simply don’t know any better or better able to detach from an extremely disturbing situation than most people would be capable of.

    And the utter convolution of saying that you never had bipolar symptoms before, because you take magnesia, this to disregard it was a sun stroke, and then offer zyprexa…

    And you can easily read how much bipolar is over diagnosed, and the whole push with “medications” such as zyprexa which have collectively caused billions of dollars in fines because of withholding information about known side effects, or how such “medications” cause brain damage, this with a false diagnosis of a brain malformation….

    I don’t even go to see a primary care physician anymore. I’ve heard to many stories, and I have a diagnosis. I had gone to the ER for a simple allergic reaction to oregano oil, and they were ready to give me a prednisone pill, or something like that, which I said no to. I was then listed as “refusing” that, the doctor using such terminology. The doctor who was quite nice and social, did state that quite aggressively all of a sudden in contrast to his otherwise friendly demeanor. I did fill out a prescription for that, which I never took, especially after reading that it makes one in twenty psychotic. But they were going to just give me such a pill at the ER. The allergic reaction had no difficulty dissipating within a short period.

    Thank you for sharing your story.

    If I was going to be sarcastic, I’d try to point out that even zyprexa with all of its magic qualities, hasn’t been shown to prevent heat stroke.

    This stuff is just unbelievable.

    And it’s tragic.

    A person who was forced on zyprexa, in an asylum setting, they wouldn’t even be able to tell such a psychiatrist the truth they might find out about the efficacy of such medications, they probably couldn’t list their side effects and get decent or conscientious acknowledgement, nor for withdrawal symptoms….

    Those people can be quite brainwashed, and fundamentalist, and don’t have realistic flexibility in their thinking, when they encounter such…

    The best you can do is often just get out of the situation, and show there’s a different way. You just can’t engage with them directly….

  • A friend of mine, since having committed suicide, was actually held within an asylum, after being committed, because she still got up in the middle of the night and had a cigarette, but then went back to sleep.

    This is serious criteria for determining someone’s mental health?

    Another friend of mine, still alive but highly disabled by the system, and I would say showing severe symptoms of anosognosia because of the drugs she was forced on, they were going to keep her there longer because of her relationship with nature. She sees nature as being part of the Kingdom of Heaven, and so she entertains parts of it as representing her connection with people she has lost in her life. There was a crow or so that, during a time in the bleak courtyard and the asylum, the only plant life there having somehow sprouted up between the cracks in the concrete, but a crow flew near by, or another bird I don’t remember, and made a sound. My friend said that was her mother, I think it was her birthday even. That was overheard by someone working there, and they were going to keep her another week, at least. I called up there and let them have it, talking about persecution of indigenous religious beliefs: by some miracle this pundit of institutional conformity ( and by all means he was “nice” about it, as if saying they were just trying to make sure was assuring to anyone, when they hadn’t even asked her with any insight as to why she said that ) it seems he somehow got her let out the next day. She’s actually totally unaware of how much the drugs effect her, and thinks that she can just get off of them, when she wants to, but has no idea at all to be aware of the withdrawal symptoms, or how to deal with them; and since I’ve known her for more than 20 years has constantly gotten herself into trouble when she tries to get off of the drugs. Her whole family is also oblivious. Sadly she can be quite apologetic about the system, she has a trust fund and had an apartment big enough to take someone in, someone also in the mental health system, but when he started acting out, and she wanted him out of the apartment, instead of just asking him to leave or even trying to, she had him committed. Later she admitted that to do that you have to exaggerate and lie. Recently, having moved into a foster care facility, the lady in charge also told me how she’s able to work the system, and knew exactly what to say to get herself committed to the asylum, for petty reasons, which she has called a second nursery school. This 1000 dollars a day or so resort, that the government pays for, mostly. And she really was in trouble, given the withdrawal symptoms, and her anosognosia regarding the effect of the drugs; but going to the asylum isn’t going to help with such stuff. Recently, which is the past 5 or 6 years, she’s had herself committed, before that was forced.

    But here with such petty things being used to determine whether someone is sick or not, what Willoweed brought up: how much is this really about turning off your mind when you have natural responses to a non working society, or distress regarding said non working society you won’t get points for bringing up, or that might start seeing that there’s something more worth it to invest in, involving thought, beyond the boundaries one is supposed to keep to be considered responsible!?

    And 1000 dollars a day in an asylum, and you’re let out when…

    When you agree that you’re sick, because the psychiatrist doesn’t like you playing with your hair, can’t tolerate you disagreeing with him when he’d have to listen to your side of the story, and have empathy…

    Who knows what…

    The friend of mine who committed suicide (who actually at one point had the same guy committed she had taken in, as the other had, come to think of it) just prior, I think the last time I visited with her, she showed me how she couldn’t sit still, how her hands would start shaking, and told me how the psychiatrist at the asylum had said to her that if she didn’t willingly start taking this, that, and then another drugs (or at least two, but I think at least three, I don’t remember exactly) that he wasn’t going to let her out. And he was aggressive and threatening.

    Who is determining this stuff!? And statistically THEY are the ones whose “treatment” correlates with the spike in mental illness, AND with the violence associated with people who are supposed to be forced on this treatment, which is the PR spin. Like the Reichstag incident with Hitler; make people think they are being attacked (and cause that attack yourself, or do and say it’s the enemy) and you can control them. And then more disability, loss of life, loss of life expectancy, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, societal paranoia, loss of self initiative, more cost to everyone but the drug companies and those investing in their bonds and stocks.

    It really doesn’t make sense, and the article above points out that when you take them out of the picture, that there isn’t really any correlation with anti-depressants helping depression.

  • Paula, thank you for your heartfelt response.

    I really don’t know what to say about all of that. It certainly taught me to NEVER go to such people for help. The amount of hard liner indoctrinated pretense, really doing nothing but showing how easily a person is controlled by unrealistic fear, when it’s accepted as a societal norm.

    And what’s most disturbing to me, perhaps, is would a vet go to such a place, having already been through a war where there’s such game playing going on, for whatever reason (read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man) where people were controlled by fear to do truly dehumanizing things etc…

    Well, I’m repeating myself, but they then end up having to deal with the same thing over again, only with people who act like they’re giving medical help rather than excusing violence in a war. Here it’s also extremely covert, rather than exposed violence. And it’s perhaps such an attitude why people don’t know better regarding excusing wars, given how easily they are made to believe there’s some evil out there, whether it’s an alleged chemical imbalance or “the enemy” who is as human as the other side would one be allowed to gain perspective: “If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we would find in each person’s life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.”
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow POET

    Just to be completely clear, I only called that place thinking I might be able to talk to someone, simply about not doing things that I felt were harmful to me in the long run (smoking and drinking too much coffee). “Why am I doing this, this could be detrimental to me in the long run?” And at that time I really had no repertoire of thought to realize there were really subtle quiet thoughts that I was pushing to the side, feelings I hadn’t been encouraged to have, in the harsh riot of calculations based on what you can get or not (socially, economically, institutionally, politically and territoriality…etc.) in this artifice called society. I guess they were just feelings that I thought if I really felt them, that they would destroy me, like I had to get rid of them somehow. It’s only after that when everything fell apart and I was put on disability that I found that at times I had two choices, I could fragment into a frustrated person that thought all life had failed me, or I could go to the computer with my midi keyboard and synthesizer, and compose music. Which happened by itself, music then became that innate place a person has they can go to with their emotions, that’s universal to the human condition, and beyond. Not that I could at the time exactly equate it with emotions, it was just something to do where I could do something, my reflexes could relate to something abstract enough it was outside of what was labeled as having done anything or not. Something to do that allowed me to feel alive, like water to a parched plant. There are of course other things I did, like go for a bike ride taking a pack of colored pencils and art paper with me, and marvel at the array of colors in nature, would I try to reproduce what I saw with the pencils on the paper. But I’m quite sure that psychiatric drugs would have destroyed that, the natural flow.

    A person that has been traumatized can transcend trauma with another language, like in dreams which could be seen as a sort of fiction where things are symbolic, or then any of the arts. All of the “non reality based stuff” that could be labeled as psychosis. Most of the great artists have been dubbed with some sort of diagnosis post humously, if not schizophrenia then bipolar often, because of the way they went to another place in the mind, to a language that transcends trauma rather than uses it as excuse for the mind control. You’re not supposed to feel things like that, you’re not supposed to allow your mind the freedom to create scenarios, depictions of things symbolic enough that it transcends boundaries, there was supposed to be something wrong with them. Basically because they dared to go someplace that was universal, where there wasn’t separation between people anymore.

    Telling a vet, who can’t feel at home anymore in society with what war has done to him, that they have a chemical imbalance, is like telling someone who has contusions that there’s something wrong with their tissues or their skin. Only here we’re dealing with something more objective than what is tangible in the physical, because it’s not going to go away, you can remove yourself from a physical object, but you can’t just discard your emotions, your thoughts, you can’t push them away, and there’s the rub, they’re not going to go away.

    Do people really have to disable their minds to believe in magic charms?

    “Just take this pill, it will bring you happiness.”

    What if we were meant to feel our feelings, and that when we really allow ourselves that space, they connect us with the rest of life, and we find we’re not separate to begin with? All that crazy stuff might dig up some ingrained fears left buried out of despair, change our reflexes and bring a whole new path our way, that was just waiting…

    And I mean just feelings, not I have to do something to get rid of that feeling, I don’t like it, it makes me angry; I think that’s interfering with the intelligence behind the feelings. What people think is something to medicate to eradicate could be the very stuff that connects us with each other…

    http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-the3.htm

  • Suicide prevention lines are “insane,” I clearly don’t know what to say about it.
    I had called one years ago (more than 30), not because I was suicidal, but because I felt that I was so distressed that I wasn’t taking care of myself, I was spending the whole night on my parents porch, smoking and drinking coffee. I had had quite a bit of societal betrayal, and didn’t understand it at all. I had specifically told them this (that I felt I wasn’t taking care of myself drinking too much coffee); to add on to this, the amount of coffee I was drinking did help to make me paranoid, but I told them how much coffee I was drinking.

    I was invited to come talk to them, where they had a building; clearly I wasn’t at risk enough for them to send police over etc. It’s one of the most bizarre situations I’ve ever had when I went to their building. I couldn’t hardly have a conversation with the lady that was supposed to be there to talk to me because the phone kept ringing and she’d pick it up. And they get really serious, all activate as if there’s some critical thing going on, which wasn’t at all, one lady took such a stance it looked like she was ready to give me an anal probe or something. Any sort of conversation I had amounted to really nothing, but that at one point they even told me that they wanted to have me committed, but I mentioned that I had a therapist (maybe they had tried to call my parents who weren’t home, I don’t know) but they got the therapist, this was just a lady I went to to talk about my dreams for dream interpretation, but she was some kind of legitimate therapist, so they did listen to her who told them that I was fine, that I lived with my parents etc..

    And this was supposed to be a suicide prevention line. I have to admit that’s incredulously unwitty to call a place like that, but I didn’t know who to call. I was just concerned about myself; but simply going there and talking to them was incredibly dangerous. And although I told them about the amount of coffee I was drinking — which I mentioned as a sign I wasn’t taking care of myself, although I wasn’t suicidal at all — there wasn’t ONE peep about that, or that maybe I shouldn’t drink that much coffee (or smoke), or that if I was really upset about stuff that I should relax, take a walk, do something to calm myself like meditate, sit by a lake, all of a host of things, NOTHING was said about this, but one lady actually, when I told her I liked to write poetry, had the false indoctrination to tell me that she was concerned about me because she wanted me to do creative stuff, and if I took “medications” then I would be able to write poetry. Just absolute brain washing. Utter nonsense. Medications that turn off self initiative, that dull the mind, that cause one’s thoughts to recede as if they’re being cut off, that’s what I’ve heard from other people, and seen myself; and that was supposed to help me write poetry.

    You also can easily do a search about how coffee can cause paranoia, and it’s chemically explained quite clearly.

    And I say that it was unwitty to call a place like that, but clearly I didn’t have anyone to talk to, even though my parents are both psychologists, they never understood simple things about children needing to feel free to express themselves, so they can relate to their own instincts, their own feelings, their own perceptions, experiences and intuition; but my parents were more interested in using stuff like the Myer Briggs to analyse our personality, assign us personality traits; and then more stuff at home I won’t get into that’s just too sordid. Not a healthy environment for emotional health.

    Neither was it helpful to call a suicide prevention line just to have someone to talk to. They had no idea of how to just make someone feel there was someone to listen, and when they tried to make out they had concern, along with acting so alarmed that any sensitive person would feel threatened, they said things to me that I already knew were totally untrue, and I just simply didn’t respond at all. Like talking to robots, you can just hear them going through indoctrinated prefabricated snippets, and acting really concerned, which at that point could have been someone trying to tell me what could happen would I not sacrifice a goat, or a dove, or something worse I won’t mention. It’s just amazing how childish those people are, and you can go to any indoctrinated bunch of good doobies working the system, and you get the same kind of inexplicable responses. Only this involves a person’s life, and people that have already been seriously traumatized, in a way that society ends up discarding them do they actually show signs of what they’ve been through. Having the police pick them up and escort them to a place where they will get more abuse really ISN’T going to help: where they are told that medications that don’t help them they have to take for their whole life, that their brain has been broken, and after having suffered through questionable wars find themselves part of one against feelings, and the brain itself, the way such drugs disable natural brain functions.

    My heart goes out to any veteran that has ever had to do with those people….

  • From the Vice article, a statement by Nev Jones:

    “Yet Jones said that in the time she’s been involved in pushing for better mental health treatment, she has seen increasing polarization, and much of that she contributes to Whitaker and his work. She gets contacted by parents semi-regularly who have read Whitaker’s books and then refuse to let their children start or remain on anti-psychotics—even in cases where medications were working well and the young person wanted to continue with the medication. “This is not at all getting away from coercive relationships,” Jones said.”

    And then from the blog on this site, a conversation between her and Sandra Steingard:
    “And overall, there’s so much we don’t know, so much we don’t understand. So, acknowledging heterogeneity, acknowledging a very high degree of uncertainty about just about everything, including ways of addressing long-term disability—I personally see this as the necessary starting point of any discussion. Instead, at least at the time, I think it was common to see Open Dialogue deployed as a quasi-magical bullet and means of (for some people literally) eliminating psychosis. And likewise, I felt that many people took up Anatomy as ostensible proof that antipsychotics were the primary cause of sustained or chronic psychosis (through supersensitization) and also that the case was more or less settled with respect to long-term iatrogenic harms.”

    I find this particularly misleading to bring up heterogeneity, and then try to discredit so much that truly brings in information and methods that otherwise would be dismissed and/or overlooked. That way anything that might dissuade a person from mainstream convenience or practice supposedly gets in the way of heterogeneity, despite the whole play on words, and the catch phrase “acknowledging heterogeneity.”

    Open Dialogue and Healing Homes of Finland have been shown to work; and they should be tried, should be allowed to be tried out in the USA without prior discriminatory fabrications. The reason they haven’t been tried is because they would go against the mainstream biological model of mental illness, its ideology the unproven chemical imbalance; anything contrary to that is, as we hear again, called a fantasy, is made out to be unrealistic. Methods that work should be tried before anyone decides whether it’s a “fantasy” that they would work.

    And those methods really aren’t anything like:

    “Well, we have these “medications,” that don’t really work in the majority of cases, but we promote that to be the case when they work for an interim, although afterwards there’s more disability, more relapsing, loss of life, side effects, withdrawal symptoms and fear of symptoms that might otherwise have been experienced and understood so that they quiet down or dissolve altogether. There’s also a spike in the diseases these medications are said to heal, along with the added disability, more relapsing and the other things I already mentioned. And we say it’s treating a chemical imbalance, but really causes one by disabling the mind, which we also see as healing, although we’re basically lying to you, but that’s to get you to take your drugs. Now beheading someone also alleviates psychiatric symptoms, but we find the side effect of death a bit too severe, although the medications, for say psychosis, do in general take 20 years off of your life expectancy disabling your mind, it’s not the sudden death as in beheading, and so we can disable that little noggin up there and keep you alive for awhile, although there’s loss there. OK!?”

    I also find it distressing that a clinician would go against parents that were responsible enough to read non mainstream material, gain information that’s more accurate than they were told, information that was suppressed: in fact information that would their child end up in the mental health system and put on such medications, would the child themselves express the scientific truths of how the medications aren’t really treating a chemical imbalance and how the medications are causing iotragenic harm, the child could be seen as non compliant and forced on the medications. To read that Nev said she’s disturbed by parents taking their children off of medications, she says were working, although statistically those medications if they are helpful are only helpful for an interim, and people do better to get off of them eventually, Nev also mentioning that people then also don’t want to try medications that can be extremely difficult to get off of, and cause further problems, as if there’s something wrong there: that further makes me question what’s going on. It also sounds to me that Nev has convinced some of her clients that the drugs work, saying that children don’t want to get off of the medications, and then goes against the parents, even when they don’t want the children to start on the medications. THAT, in fact has caused children to be taken away from their parents. Parents who are dilgent enough to do research beyond the boundaries of standard treatment propping up Wallstreet games, corporate media control, and it’s “economy.” Mindfreedom has two such stories of children that their parents took to the ER, the children were understandable distressed about a physical condition, then advised to try an anti-depressant, and the parents simply stated the scientific truth about such medications, which then was seen as a danger to the children (to know the truth, what’s shared in for example Robert Whitaker’s books); two different mother’s lost their daughters to being institutionalized for simply expressing the scientific truth about anti-depressants. And it also was the daughter’s own choice to not go on such drugs. And with the amount of med students on anti-depressants https://www.idealmedicalcare.org/75-med-students-antidepressants-stimulants/ and the propaganda that’s indoctrinated, it’s not unreasonable to wonder how many nurses and doctors there are that think that such dangerously addictive substances should be administered when there’s normal distress that would go away with proper medical help for a truly physical conditions, which is why someone would go see a nurse or a doctor. In fact that’s happened with someone I knew. A lady came to the US from an East Block country, had been promised work, that and some paper work that should have been cleared weren’t for some bureaucratic reason, and she was left without work, and the distress about that. THEN she had to deal with some nurses who promoted anti-depressants, but the lady had a mother that was a nurse back in her homeland, and the mother had diligently studied the truth about anti-depressants and was wary about that, so the lady said she didn’t think that was a good idea, and probably shared some information that then caused the nurses to start becoming vigilant against her, and her children were taken away from her, basically because her house wasn’t as neat as they felt it should be. The lady was quite responsible and clear in her head, she just had a lot going on and her house was a bit messy, which it often is with children, and she went against being advised to to on anti-depressants.

    Since I’m going on about such stuff, involving paranoia and the mental health system. I also ran into a woman out of nowhere at a bus stop about a decade or so ago, started talking to her, and found out she had been hauled across state lines and put in jail, in my city again, because social workers had talked to her mother, and the mother had accused her of stealing her money. The truth actually being that the mother at one point could have ended up in jail but the daughter decided she should be looked at by the psychiatric division to avoid being put in jail; the mother apparently was treated and then went back to live in her house but took an alcoholic in with her there, she could have lost the house, the daughter put her whole 401K into the house with a reverse term mortgage, but the mother managed to mess that up as well; ended up somewhere in a foster care or so, and then accused the daughter of something she hadn’t done at all, and the nurses believed that. The nurses or social workers believed that the daughter had stolen her mother’s money, when in reality she had lost her 401k trying to help the mother, that managed to still lose the house the 410k of the daughter had prevented from being repossessed at first. The poor daughter wasn’t allowed even a credit card when the police picked her up with several SUVs, was hauled across state lines, held in jail overnight, then had to talk to a judge on video camera who said: “you’re fine, you just have to do some paperwork, you can go home,” where upon the daughter asked how she was supposed to do that, she had no credit card or ID? The judge said that was her problem, and then I happened to run into her after she went to see if friends of hers were around, using her last change for a bus ride; but her friends were on vacation or so. I actually gave her money for a bus ticket, which she returned to me as soon as she got home, by sending me a money order; I helped her find a center for women where she could spend the night before taking the bus, and prevented her from losing her job because she couldn’t get home in time. All of that impossible situation because the nurses again think something is going on, and wouldn’t care to find out beyond that.

    And who is prone to believe in fantasies!?

  • I thought I was finished, and then remembered there was talk of “magic bullets.”

    Here, from Nev:

    “And overall, there’s so much we don’t know, so much we don’t understand. So, acknowledging heterogeneity, acknowledging a very high degree of uncertainty about just about everything, including ways of addressing long-term disability—I personally see this as the necessary starting point of any discussion. Instead, at least at the time, I think it was common to see Open Dialogue deployed as a quasi-magical bullet and means of (for some people literally) eliminating psychosis. And likewise, I felt that many people took up Anatomy as ostensible proof that antipsychotics were the primary cause of sustained or chronic psychosis (through supersensitization) and also that the case was more or less settled with respect to long-term iatrogenic harms.”

    This is quite amazing, actually, that the real thing that’s common, and that is prevalent worldwide in “developed” countries, and that people are confronted with, aggressively indoctrinated about, and intimidated with, is the magic bullet that psychiatric medications get rid of “psychosis.” What Open Dialogue does is to show a way that statistically DOES help with psychosis, rather than the true magic bullet of the chemical imbalance theory, which truly delves into the area of “there’s so much we don’t know,” because the whole story of how that works doesn’t add up to what the medications really do (they cause chemical imbalance rather than to treat it), nor do the statistics add up to getting rid of psychosis in general because they lead to more disability, relapsing, loss of life etc as well as a spike in the occurrence given the general implementation of the chemical imbalance theory as treatment in psychiatric diseases, and so all that’s left is that for those who it seems to help “we don’t know how it works.” In contrast what we DO know is that Open Dialogue statistically is more effective, in fact is effective rather than causing more of the problem it is said to heal. And Anatomy of an Epidemic also simply shares information that was there to clearly see, and should be shared so that it’s known, explaining the whole spike in mental illness. Anatomy of an Epidemic simply showed the correlation with the implementation of anti-psychotics and the increase in relapsing, disability, and statistic occurrence of the disease or diseases psychiatric medications were said to heal, since both ADHD medications and anti-depressants could and did and DO lead to further diagnosis where anti-psychotics end up being prescribed.

    And no I don’t think it’s open minded to convolute informed consent with information, that when warned about, people would correlate with “magic bullets” to avoid what they are warned about. In fact that’s quite reckless to negate such needed input, for whatever excuse, for anyone to make an informed well thought out decision. As well as it being recklessly dismissive to not promote methods that have been shown to work, against those that are accepted, but haven’t been shown to work but for a minority.

    There you have “magic bullets.”

  • I don’t think that Nev sees what Anatomy of an Epidemic is about, it’s simply what it is, reporting the statistics of what correlates with the increase in mental illness, and how anti-psychotics being prescribed, being recommended to the extent that they are and also being forced on people contribute to that. Those are facts, that’s not hypothesis. And Robert Whitaker isn’t at all trying to eradicate any use of anti-psychotics, which from Nev is used against him, as if that’s the result of his books. Because it ISN’T the responsibility of people who have have their whole life harmed by anti-psychotics to have vital information that could have prevented this pushed to the side because someone feels that it’s pill shaming. Or that because information that was suppressed when shared prevents those who would have been helped by anti-psychotics, when would such information be withheld ignores the whole consequent spike that clearly correlates with anti-psychotics.

    I also find it a mental fabrication to say that Open Dialogue imported here is a “Fantasy” (something that TRULY IS hypothesis, which she uses as an excuse to dismiss something that’s completely valid), because she finds that: “the idea that one could relatively neatly import an intervention from a rural, culturally homogeneous region of a high-income Nordic state with universal healthcare, robust social welfare systems, tuition free higher education, and so on, to parts of the US with deep poverty, entrenched structural racism, urban violence, etc., seemed like a fantasy.” That’s really quite aggressive dismissal of something that has been proven to work, and that HASN’T been tried in the US, simply because it’s not as pro drug as mainstream treatments promoted by pharmacy guilds, and the economics that sells drugs. And for her to stereotype Finland, deny that the same distress could happen there in other ways than happens in America, because in America we have:”deep poverty, entrenched structural racism, urban violence, etc.” as an excuse in dismissing as “fantasy” something that has been proven to work, that’s beyond concern, and is more actual paranoia masked with fabricated concern. Sorry. I have to call it for what it is here. And if it worked where there’s according to her less societal distress then why wouldn’t it work where there’s more societal distress. To simply dismiss even trying it and then calling it a fantasy facilitates what? There’s not enough resources to easily try it out!?

    What goes on then when someone has other ideas that should be tried out or investigated, that then is called a “fantasy” and are dismissed as such, when they come for help in working those ideas out as a patient? And are met with advice and ideas listing their own thoughts as a “fantasy” rather than what they propose should be looked into, tried out, given leg room like anything else. Soteria project hired people that were egalitarian, simply interested in what another said, the weird stuff: everything, and this cost less money and was more effective. Is that another “fantasy?” That also is something that was dismissed, although proven to be effective. A “fantasy.” How would this compare to a clinician patient relationship when someone proposes something? As if this can be known beforehand whether it has relevance or would work or help, and instead dismissed as a “fantasy.” Or listed as a fixation, when someone really feels it should be given legroom. In the same fashion, in that “rural, culturally homogeneous region of a high-income Nordic state with universal healthcare, robust social welfare systems, tuition free higher education, and so on” a region, where they don’t have .7 % of the people in jail, don’t maintain the death sentence, don’t incarcerate under inhumane conditions people for the length of time happening in the US, that it’s a fantasy a less severe penal system would work here with our: ” deep poverty, entrenched structural racism, urban violence, etc.” Whether she believes that or not, it’s the same argument so many people use to excuse the US incarceration level.

    It’s not as if Open Dialogue wouldn’t give people a chance of, as Nev states: “beginning to see the experiences that get labeled as psychosis as rich, complicated, meaning-laden, and fundamentally bound up with identity and selfhood..and thus centering meaning-making in clinical contexts, rather than reductionistic forms of therapy or intervention that primarily aim to contain, ameliorate, or enable “self-management.” Which Nev says is the change she wants to see.

    Open Dialogue already does that, and gives a person the place to feel safe to start finding the means to express their identity and selfhood.

    When something works it works, it’s really easy to make up intellectualized arguments that sound plausible as to why something won’t work to avoid the challenge a different method offers to what one has become invested in, and has a vocation in.

    And I’ve gone on enough now about “fantasies.”

  • And then Hurford talks about medications being like the “foundation” of a house. And without a foundation you can’t build the rest of the house.

    WHAT!?

    I have to laugh about something that totally isn’t funny…

    Causing a chemical imbalance that’s been proven, in the guise of treating one that’s alleged, in the process causing a whole epidemic of the “diseases” said to be treated, and then saying one needs the leeway to be able to force treatment more or advocate for it, or advertise it, or more money for research because there’s “compelling” evidence you will find the chemical imbalance that’s alleged, although the evidence that the chemical imbalance you are causing by treating an alleged one isn’t just based on compelling evidence you will find it, being that the chemical imbalance you’re causing by treating the alleged one: it’s already there and been proven…..

    And then it’s stated that the alleged chemical imbalance is taking away a person’s civil rights, which AGAIN is cause to take those away as well, along with causing a chemical imbalance that wasn’t there before while advertising you are treating one..

    Give people a chemical imbalance they didn’t have before, by saying you’re treating one.

    Take away civil rights because an alleged disease is doing that, which is quite amazing that “psychosis,” has THAT MUCH control over the whole judicial and medical system, which might actually mean that there is MORE psychiatric disease that’s not been diagnosed is it truly causing anyone to lose their civil rights, but then it’s those really taking away civil rights that need to be looked at.

    I didn’t know Hurford had such insight, although her aim is a bit askew. It’s those people giving you the right to take away civil rights that are the psychosis, the alleged disease, investigate that a bit more and you might get somewhere….

    HOW can one take this seriously!?

    Oh I forgot. I’ts like diabetes. This alleged disease that’s said to be caused by a chemical imbalance so you treat it by causing a proven chemical imbalance that’s shown to cause an epidemic of the alleged disease (still not proven to be caused by a chemical imbalance unless it’s from treatment when one treats the alleged chemical imbalance by causing a proven chemical imbalance) and all of this is how you create the foundation, NOT mind you for an epidemic, but for how you treat this alleged disease…

    And THEN you can start to build a house…

    (!?!?)

    Let’s see

    the foundation is creating a proven chemical imbalance by saying you’re treating an alleged one

    on top of that you can build a house

    brick number one: “the relapsing and disability and loss of life, along with side effects, and the loss of civil rights and self determination, this is from a disease caused by an alleged chemical imbalance, not from the proven chemical imbalance that’s the treatment.”

    brick number two: “If I or anyone with a diagnosis like mine doesn’t understand that, they have anogsognosia, which DOESN’T come from the medications causing the chemical imbalance, that’s treating an alleged one.”

    brick number three: “That people in developing countries where there’s no money for such medications do better, doesn’t mean that rich countries might try that, it means that one should develop those countries to be more rich, although that depletes their resources sort of like the medications do to my body causing side effects, but that’s progress.”

    brick number four: “It’s not that the arts, or philosophy, or great scientists in history that have created our culture had healthy minds, they’ve all been dubbed with psychiatric diseases as well, and it would be better if one could create a time machine to go fix them up, then society would be so much better, although there’s no proof for that either, as little as the chemical imbalance of the alleged disease has been found, but don’t suggest to create a time machine, that would be against the beliefs of statistical based norms and unhealthy emotionally, something the drugs can fix, again. And no, this isn’t because a time machine might disprove our theory.”

    brick number five: “Go volunteer to be a peer support specialist, give up on the time machine.”

    brick number six: “Don’t pay any attention to the foundation by now disintegrating, that’s because you need more medications.”

    brick number seven: “put that on the new and improved foundation….”

    brick number eight: “I know the foundation collapsed again, lets try shock therapy now.”

  • Um…
    The article reads a bit like something from eonline or a gossip column. Albeit she has snippets of information from a whole array of areas, but she dots back and forth from this one to that one much like the reports of what so and so is wearing, who is together with another or not or was etc. There really isn’t much depth, as much as she’s trying to make out she has real concern. She’d have to go deeper into the issues than dotting back and forth.

    It’s really depictive of people’s inability in general of maintaining attention, the ten second sound byte generation.

    One of the things I find most distressing are the blips or blurbs of statements about or from Irene Hurford, whose article in the New York Times I also have read now, linked from the Vice article. Her article already is another catchy piece designed to pique people’s interest and doesn’t venture into the territory of people who don’t read such articles to entertain the knowledge of being up on things, people who are most likely to end up targeted by much of psychiatry’s diagnosis and lack of acknowledgment in their environment. And the strangest thing is that’s actually touched on in the article itself (buy Love rather than Hurford), like what I’ve seen from a church that comes to the local mission and hands out used clothes and ziplock bags full of peanut butter sandwiches, junk food, little bottles of shampoo and soap, other little tokens like a necklace with a crucifix on it; and then remains proud of doing their part when they do this twice a year or so and then lock their doors behind them. And the lack of real substance to me points out that she really doesn’t have the ability to relate to someone she deems as being “psychotic,” and instead uses her concern of something she’s incapable of relating to to mask her inability, making out she’s involved with critical decision making instead. And that’s the simple truth for me. There are people who don’t get alarmed about “psychosis,” have no need to analyze it, that leave it to work itself out, or are able to make a person feel supported enough, without that soft lurking quiescent buzz in the background of I-might-have-you-committed. She talks about someone who when his father came to visit him went off of his meds and started smoking dope a lot. There’s absolutely no discussion what so ever about why he was on meds to begin with, why there was no support enough that allowed him to relate to his feelings enough to see that smoking dope every day wasn’t helping him, which in this case wasn’t, all of the dynamics with his family that become apparent with anyone still cogent about cause and effect aren’t even referred to, and then he’s back in the school whose “medical” programs regarding what he’s been through mostly push that into the background to promote what he’s already been forced into. And dope and psychiatric drugs both mess around with brain chemistry, what’s going on with someone that they prefer disabling what their brain itself might be trying to express, something that one would think has become uncomfortable to them, which both sides of the supposed support system (Hurford or the family) seem to show why there’s such discomfort and the reflex towards disabling the mind to avoid thoughts and feelings that have become uncomfortable, whether it’s with psychiatric drugs or dope. Then she talks about someone who had Aids, came into the ER and said they were a profit: sorry I mistyped it’s spelled Prophet, that REALLY was a “Freudian,”. She had him medicated, and knows nothing about him from there on. Ending the piece with: “I never found out what happened to him. I think about him often; I question my decision each time I do.” Wow! That’s a sly way to point out you need help understanding what you’re doing, but not really going forth to find out because of reticence. Just that she wanted to help becomes enough. The badge the medical establishment gives her, and thus she has to do “something.”

    Hurford’s approach isn’t even all that mainstream, she will say that psychosis isn’t just non reality based garbage, but the question still remains WHY someone like her is given the power they have, when there are many people who don’t become alarmed, who don’t need to feel they are helping by taking on such a badge, but that have the ability to understand the symbolism, the need for reflexes, memories, beliefs to come out in the open through a means, in this case labeled psychosis, that might expose the reflexes, memories, beliefs whose interactions with the brain are labeled as symptoms of psychosis, and give them leg room to not remain hidden in the interplay or reactions to life, and then a person might move beyond their present limitations; but then we come across the very fabric of society, the people Hurford and Shayla Love know how to get to read their writings, dotted with acceptable blurbs for those who want to know “something,” where they can assimilate a host of things without going deeply enough into any of them to go beyond such hip hop repertoire. Safe stuff to go to any school, church, parks and recreation classes, neighborhood leagues, Girlscout or Boyscout get together, sports club, political party etc. and start sharing how up you are on stuff.

    And Hurford talks about how “psychosis” is taking a person’s civil liberties away, which is a quite “amazing” concept. Decorated with their supposed inability to realize something is wrong, Thus she “medicates.” But speaking of what’s wrong, it’s not mentioned how psychiatric drugs have lead to more disability, relapsing, loss of life and paranoia about “psychosis” along with recycling of it with that paranoia strengthened and supported even when alternative approaches lead towards more recovery, whether the symptoms are gone because they were understood or simply not medicated; one wonders how one can respond at all to such an amazing convolution of what’s going on. “What we cause more of by taking away your civil liberties is taking away your civil liberties, so we continue to cause more of it to save your civil liberties, which we took away.” And WHAT is cause and effect!? That a psychotic person would have to deal with such indoctrination, such convoluted “logic,” and be a different effect from what those taking away their civil liberties are causing, and then have to figure out how to escape from such a situation!?

    I also find this something akin to confusion technique, all of the hip hop blurbs, because there are too many references to too many people, without delving any deeper, and one becomes incapable of remembering anything beyond a blurb, with the amount of stuff popping up; and would you want to address any of it, you have to start looking deeper yourself, after having identified the stuff that needs looking into; and then further more knowing by then that you are going to encounter stuff that just doesn’t fit this hip hop blurb world. It’s not quick fix, fast food enough. Can’t get it at the drive through or order it online with a few clicks. Not hanging on the corporate media output tree where cherries are ready to be picked.

    Shayla Love also mentions a clinician Nev Jones, who has concern about polarization, and mentions Robert Whitaker’s books as causing this: that parents refuse to allow their children to continue on medications (even when the medications were helping), or to start on them, this then is one anecdotal story from one clinician (one “cherry”); but has no reference to what extent the true evidence that’s not anecdotal is shared in Whitaker’s books, and yet implies that that shouldn’t be looked at or believed because of one anecdotal story. And the real polarization is apparent again. Don’t mention serious research that I can dot around and find one anecdotal story to contradict, when the serious research is already suppressed, and not in line with guilds, economic bubbles and corporate media.

    So, if someone comes up to you and seems to be psychotic, and tells you they are a prophet, at least ask them how you spell that…

  • mmarti2007

    Apart from seeing close friends lives destabilized by the mental health system, committing suicide or dying of other related causes brought on by the mental health system, I actually forgot that I know a story of someone being directly killed by the mental health system, in the city I live in. I only heard about it from someone who was a friend of a lady barber, who knew a poor elderly man who got thrown into this mess, where the lady barber had been trying to intercede and become his legal guardian. The poor old man had gone to the hospital distressed because of a valid skin condition. Because he was distressed they had suggested he take an anti-depressant, which he declined, and then he got committed. And that’s simple distress because of a skin condition. At one point he was in an asylum getting shock treatment, and the barber (who I still have to look up, I only know where she works) she was trying to become his legal guardian, but was being prevented by lawyers who had taken over his money, and consequently also being paid to be his guardians I think, the barber lady was told by the poor old man: “get me out of here, they’re killing me,” and next she heard he had an apartment for awhile, but then died. They had managed to take over his whole life. House Everything… Mindfreedom had TWO stories like this of girls who with their mother had gone to the ER, and when the mothers had stated they didn’t want their children on an anti-depressants for valid distress involving a physical condition, the girls were both thrown into the system, and were ward of the state.

    Stuff anyone of us hears regularly that others wouldn’t believe. It’s also QUITE scary the amount of nurses that go on anti-depressants, also when they are still in school.

    https://www.idealmedicalcare.org/75-med-students-antidepressants-stimulants/

    And you just have to truly research what anti-depressants really do to be highlyg concerned about how much anosognosia is going around regarding what the “medications” really do with the people who are supposed to tend to the sick.

    If your son is foaming at the mouth, because of the medications, and it’s not acknowledged that that could be causing him to choke, and that then it’s listed he’s trying to do that on purpose, this is so pretentious that most people would shriek upon hearing such nonsense, but people like us hear it regularly regarding psychiatric treatment reports.

    One can only assume, given that your son never wanted to abruptly be forced off of clozapine, that he wasn’t told why he needed to have blood tests, and wasn’t told that if he refused them that they couldn’t keep him on clozapine. When I do a search for clozapine and blood tests, it also mentions that when someone has been on it as long as your son was, they only require blood tests every month; but it’s quite clear that they didn’t avert at all a crisis, and didn’t tell your son they needed blood drawn to get his prescription, and when the pharmacists said he needed the blood test, they didn’t give him one afterwards. Here:
    https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/cpd-and-learning/learning-article/how-clozapine-patients-can-be-monitored-safely-and-effectively/11138788.article?firstPass=false
    it says that after one has been on clozapine for 34 weeks (your son was on it for 16 months) that one only has to have monthly blood tests, so they still had two weeks to get the next test in. And that’s information that’s freely available online. And clearly if they had told your son this, he would have complied with a blood test, it really wasn’t that he was refusing all blood tests.

    I have to tell you that I’ve experienced this all over the place, that as SOON as people think that you’re crazy, you can’t do any normal thing that they might be suspicious of without them adding on ad hoc diagnosis. It’s not a pleasant experience to have a needle stuck in you every week, and it should be understandable should someone not like it – if that is even the case that he refused – but to not make it clear why it would be necessary, while it’s completely clear that he would have complied since he called you up begging you to get them to reinstate his clozapine, that’s highly irresponsible. It’s like your son is supposed to be a mind reader, when there’s no way he could know that the blood tests are necessary or his clozapine won’t be refilled. It sounds like mostly that because he didn’t want a test, and wasn’t compliant, that they hurled their own irresponsibility at him for not telling him why the test would be necessary when then he would have taken it. And it seems that they cover all of that up thinking he’s being non-compliant, as if he’s supposed to be a mind reader or be seen as non compliant. And that’s another thing; as soon as they think someone is crazy, they don’t openly talk to that person anymore, but get together and make ad hoc diagnosis, without even finding out what’s going on with that person. Here, all they had to do is tell him why the blood test was necessary. And one is left having to convince them that they aren’t dealing with or relating to you anymore; instead of them honestly or openly dealing with you, you have to deal with paranoia do you have what’s really normal healthy self determination anymore, or question them about normal things anyone should want to know. WHERE ELSE in medicine do they do such things?

    We all have heard this story about psychiatric drugs being like diabetes – which isn’t true https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OVNiLKjMME – but can you see them not telling a person that he needs blood work to get his prescription filled, when he is on diabetes medications, and then taking him off of them without telling him beforehand why the test work is necessary if he declined such tests although would have taken them did he know they were necessary. But here, someone can’t not want to take a test they aren’t informed of as to why it’s necessary, without being treated as if they are supposed to know that. And who is the “professional!?”

    And EXCUSE ME, but someone is going to say there’s something wrong with me when I think: “you know that’s just like fascism: when you’re not allowing yourself to be controlled by another, when you don’t just simply to as you’re told, you’re non compliant.” And all they had to do is explain why the blood tests were necessary. It’s about someone not questioning them, and doing what they are told to do, or be seen an non compliant, or showing “symptoms” of a “disease.”

    And how did he get two black eyes, and how is him foaming at the mouth because of medications equated with a suicide attempt on his part, and how can it not be seen that a medication that they are informed of he can’t take is going to cause terrible side effects when given to him (while going cold turkey off of others, and not just one)!?

    And mmarti2007. This is all really disturbing stuff, that would push anyone over the deep end. I hope you do things like take walks, watch sunsets, do yoga, meditate, listen to calm soothing music, go to museums, read books that sooth you about life and that it all comes out in the end, read poetry, write poetry, play a musical instrument, eat healthy food (lots of vegetables and green stuff). I’ve taken a break from the computer twice writing this, to do yoga. This is all highly abusive distressing stuff that most people when they hear about it either don’t believe it, disassociate from considering it, or even blame it on the victim.

    And I would perhaps encourage you not to watch scary movies that are full of scary chase scenes making you feel something is after you, because that adrenaline will put you on edge and rob you of the answers that might be there when you haven’t been driven to distraction and desperation; even when you feel guilty you’re not doing something, or feel like you’re being defeated not doing anything, it could be better to just let go of stuff, and let the truth shine, because that’s not going to go away. None of us can know what went on with these terribly paranoid brainwashed people to get them into such a fascist state, but sometimes, when we get out of the way, the the turth (or God if you will) has the chance to shine through.

    These people are going to fixate on anything they have the chance to “diagnose” in order to disassociate from all the compromises they’ve made in life. Like the old church bitties that start gasping when anyone shows up in easy clothes, too colorful clothes or behavior, hair too long looking too much like the pictures of Jesus etc..

    There’s no great loss in getting out of the way, sometimes.

  • mmarti, you stated: ” Then, in his 10th month there, they received over $7000 in backpay — things happened and he began asking about the money. That very day – they instantly “ran out” of his 500mg of Clozapine. He immediately called me, scared, asking if he was going to have to go to the hospital. I assured him I would call to get his Clozapine reinstated. I called and was met with incompetent, defensive, rude staff members, blaming my son for everything.”

    Could you tell us more about what these people said? Because not only did they take him off of Clozapine, which one just can’t do cold turkey, certainly not ignoring the effect; but they also put him on Haldol, which you told them that he can’t take. I don’t think that would happen in any other branch of the medical community that it’s simply ignored that someone already had a bad reaction to a medication, or that they don’t acknowledge withdrawal symptoms in such a manner. In fact in other branches they would ask you, such as the question whether you’re allergic to antibiotics. And he could have died from it (and you were almost not allowed to see him), which brings another matter up, that often after someone dies in an asylum that there isn’t any proper autopsy done, and the reporting of how often psychiatric drugs kill someone is under reported, although we still hear about it. And it hasn’t stopped, and the psychiatrists are only given a hand slap. Probably there’s been no action by the system regarding the psychiatrist that abruptly changed his meds and then put him on haldol while no one would listen to the fact that it was known he couldn’t take that drug. ALL psychiatric drugs have bad side effects which are often not tended to. And they aggressively attribute withdrawal symptoms and side effects to an alleged disease…

    I mean this should be reported such behavior. Sherry Julo who wrote this blog has quite a few stories of how she wasn’t listened to as well. And that’s all allowed in the system, and the horrible effects are somehow excused, even when they kill people.

  • mmarti I read your response, and also your post from more than a year ago: https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/06/abolishing-forced-treatment-in-psychiatry-is-an-ethical-imperative/#comment-157028
    I don’t know what to say other than I’m trying to not cry, just so I can stay clear and maybe send some hope, some healing energy, and then a tear trickles down, regardless…

    It’s ABSOLUTELY insane. Someone that had difficulty because they tried a street drug, doesn’t need to be assaulted with other controlled substances, that’s truly insane. Don’t even try making any sense out of it.

    And I don’t know how to commend your behavior that you got your son OUT OF such a situation, and spared his life. It’s like anything I’d say wouldn’t be enough.

    I’ve seen this myself, when someone in an asylum was prescribed said medication, and then got out, but couldn’t get nor had a prescription for it — I think there was no psychiatrist available, I can’t even remember exactly, but it was so irresponsible you just go into shock trying to cognate it — and then had to titrate off of what she willingly was taking that they had put her on in the asylum, but they couldn’t get her a prescription for when she got out!? They have enough money for fooling everyone with ads, and enough money to imprison someone within an asylum, and enough money to keep the psychiatrists in their niche https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Psychiatrist-Salary-by-State But force taking someone off cold turkey, not listening to advice regarding ill effects of the new medications forced on him which he already couldn’t tolerate; ignoring signs of how it’s killing him…

    And it seems it just started because he dared to ask something about where certain money went, which it seems you can’t ask them; which I don’t know if that was the case, but why could it or would it be?

    From what I’ve seen, as soon as you are monitored by them, there’s a whole list of normal concerns you might have that you can’t voice, or be seen as disruptive, non compliant, you name it….

    If that was the case, they probably tried to make him out to show signs of paranoia, because he had a legitimate question about where the money went.

    That’s really just torture and mind control, that’s not medical treatment.

    What is going on with a “society” that can just assault someone with labels and pills, and have the “society” ignore what the pills are doing, or they’d have to question the labels!?

    I have to deal with that every day, although I’ve never been forced on a psychiatric drug, and never taken any, people are so ripe as to how they’ve compromised themselves to a dysfunctional society, and so in need of not questioning their brainwashing lest the whole pretense they think their existence is based on would fall apart believing they are in danger would it, that they are so stuffed with labels they pop right out of them at any moment causing alarmist responses have they heard anything about someone being “crazy,” or anything that goes with social non compliance. And they’re more up on that then what’s really going on, which explains a lot… And they’re real spiteful, angry, resentful, hateful. Once they think anything’s going on, you can’t do anything unusual, or else.

    Anyhow

    To show that I’m still “crazy,” and “non reality based” to those people, I’ll say that it’s not crazy to trust God, and that is realistic.

    And don’t worry about those people, don’t let it get to you, who knows what they went through to get the way they are, but if you let go of it that can be attended to by what other people would say is impossible…

    You’ve already done quite a few “impossible” things just to save your son’s life.

    “Impossible” things aren’t impossible…

    And my heart goes out to you…

  • I feel so for you, what you’ve been through. Like running around in a war zone, no one wanting to hear the horrors it leaves you in while they keep the war going. This whole war against the brain’s natural responses, you can see that even calling something a panic attack can be predatory to get you to become a drug company consumer. The very labeling of any symptoms itself.

    You’ve come a long way not giving up, thank God you didn’t, and are doing something to help thousands of others. That’s beautiful! Thank You for sharing your story so that others know they aren’t alone!

    Sometimes when it seems that my brain has abandoned me, just waiting a bit longer while thinking it’s not going to something surprisingly kicks in, I’ve noticed myself, if that helps at all (not all the time, but it’s so soothing when it does): Am I going to remember that word? What was I doing again? Why am I in this room?

    Everything labeled as a psychiatric symptom can have an intelligence of its own, that when allowed to just be felt rather than reacted to (I don’t like this feeling, how can I get rid of it, what drug will help, this is going to ruin my life if it doesn’t go away) can be much gentler and more subtle and more helpful than trying to get rid of it, although we’re trained to think we have to.

    It’s not just psychiatric drugs, it’s the whole consumer oriented society people are trained to think will solve their problems; everything from food to entertainment to technology. And we’re incredibly being setup to be consumers.

  • In reply to Steve, adding on to his comments.

    Since this blog is about whistle blowers being suppressed, an attempt to get it back on topic.

    I think it’s divisiveness that divides the two political parties that together with their arch of two polarized poles pressing against each other create basically the business party, one big party. Divide and conquer. Both parties that it’s made up of exploited to be causing the divide demanding that people chose between the two. And it’s exactly that which has kept the hegemony and the economy of the psychiatric treatment that this blog and Robert Whitaker’s amazingly articulate exposé tries to point out treats whistle blowers the way it does.

    I also find it divisive to lineup everything that appears to be on someone’s political platform, that regarding politics where it could change at any moment, certainly after elections; and then to tag anyone that at any point is in accord with anything in that line regarding certain issues as being a supporter of that side, next comes the label of what’s wrong with the whole “other” side. That’s like saying if you buy ANY groceries at the wrong store, you’re ruining the economy. One place might have better vegetables, and another better of something else, and the third that one thing you need although everything else you don’t find up to par.

    If Del Bigtree supported one stance of Trump regarding one particular political issue calling him a hero, doesn’t mean he voted for Trump. He actually works much more with Robert Kennedy Junior, who certainly isn’t in Trump’s party. Are we then to be on Trump’s side because of Del Bigtree working with Kennedy? Are all Democrats supposed to not be in agreement with the Republicans, or Trump or be on the wrong side; or are the Republicans not supposed to agree with the Democrats and not with Trump, or are the Democrats supposed to be in agreement with Trump but not the Republicans; or should they all disagree with themselves and each other to make sure no one is supporting the wrong side; everyone making sure they don’t work with or agree with anyone at all regarding anything on any political platform that could end up supporting the wrong side!? Same with the Bollingers to bring religion into it as well. You’d have to ask them who they actually voted for or support in the next election not just look at one stance they have with one or two issues. And whether they voted for Trump or still support him, which I wouldn’t know but to me looks like they don’t, that has nothing to do with whether their book has helped people, a book that has 88% five star ratings. And they have many success stories helping people with cures. Am I on the wrong side would I want to read the book even if they are Trump supporters when I don’t know if they are and don’t necessarily believe someone else labeling them as such, or am I supposed to e-mail them and anyone else to ask first would I be interested in them or overlook their statement about covid death statistics, although I don’t believe that particular statement but am interested in the extensive research they’ve done on alternative cancer cures?

    And yes I’m being floridly sarcastic spinning something into the absurd to make a point. One should simply be able to have interest in good things one sees in another faction regardless of other points of disagreement.

    This also was about people promoting holistic health and alternative methods. That remains something radically different than what Trump has been touting, save a few points.To round up in such a manner making a conglomeration of so and so’s political platform stating one is on said side given their stance on those issues I think that’s polarizing and exactly how Trump got the support he did; grouping resentments together inside of what’s for who knows what reason called populism, as if it’s popular to just be reactive. In fact I remember that all of the other candidates on their own did better against the other side than Trump did (as Sanders also was polled to do better than Clinton); but Trump went along with polarity and its numbers.

    When you compare a person’s actions to Bush with “you’re for us or against us,” I see that as a clear analogy with content rather than just labels. I find that a clear example of what happens when you dismiss anyone who has political points the same as another seen as the wrong side, and refuse to look at a whole array of other issues; the same anyone not for Bush’s war was seen as against him, regardless of any other issues or any other way. That example has nothing to do with Bush either, it’s an example of behavior not of a person, to dismiss that as incendiary and defaming because Bush is involved, is yet another cleavage. And that’s an example of such behavior rather than excusing it if you are on the “right” side, in this case dismissing those in accord with one specific issue one is against, rather than a military war, thankfully. Beyond that there might also actually be Bush supporters that could use examples of his behavior that were commendable, and that might actually also be so in regards other issues, even ones not involving politics at all.

    Naomi Klein coined the phrase disaster politics, exploiting the fact that a disaster destabilizing a region makes vulnerable people more prone to suggestion; the basic method such psychiatrists as Cameron took part in with MK-Ultra, and what Naomi delineates turned into what she calls the Shock Doctrine in taking over whole economies. And how is this paralleled when someone (mentioned above as a whistle blower) tries to point out that said commodity people desperately might think they or others need isn’t really doing what it’s touted to, and might make things worse?

    Sadly people are dying of covid, but how much is that used as disaster politics because people are desperate for an answer, and in the process of looking for one are assaulted with various factions touting one method and discarding others rather than anyone being allowed or encouraged to take what’s good from all of them. And people that promote holistic health or natural cures really aren’t the ones with all of the money that have been playing disaster politics the whole time.

  • In response to Steve:
    What is choosing sides?
    Because that brings to mind  when Mind Freedom had their freedom strike, a hunger strike and challenged the APA to prove mental illness was biological. Some platitude was delivered about how much disability there is and how much suffering that people can’t adapt to statistical based norms, without addressing at all the actual challenge (can you prove it’s a chemical imbalance), other than stating one should look in textbooks which actually state that there’s no proof, although they list medications as treatment…. that in colleges that since the early 80s have been fronts for investment institutions, although not exactly investment institutions in themselves, and so they’re going to go with the economics of what’s selling statistically and what isn’t.

    But the term “statistical based norms,” that’s like you’re with us or on the other side, which characterizes exactly what kind of statistics are involved, because that isn’t the statistics showing what brings people together, when others are left out and are supposed to think there’s something wrong with them when they can’t adapt to such “statistics.”

    And then there’s “consensual reality deportment,” along with “statistical based norms” used to perceive symptoms of a mental illness.

    Both of us admire Richard’s ability to take care that people aren’t shod to go tramping around reporting false data,

    But when one runs into people with a diagnosis, one runs into people that actually have reason to get disturbed from what they know (about politics and how it doesn’t work), and you learn everything that goes on in such a complex jumble of how not to do it, and it isn’t allowed to go anywhere, or being that that works it messes up our dreams of a better way which we mesmerize people with; so I can go on and on about it, now being assumed to want to take sides, but it’s disingenuous to dismiss the rest of what’s shared when someone doesn’t go along with the statistical based norms of what’s considered statistics regarding what’s coming from organizations that have been shown to put a spin on whatever is corporate enough to be part of mainstream economy, even when the site or group not part of mainstream hegemony is even further off. Simply because they share something that would otherwise be overlooked, and is needed for a complete picture.

  • The two political parties (in the USA) that have created the deadlock (one has maybe 10 percent more change than the other, and we need at least 60 percent) are both actually, as Chomsky states, together the business party, and it’s such behavior that causes the suppression of people like Kavanagh, which this blog is about, because of business interests. Both parties facilitating suppressing whistle blowers regarding the FDA.

    I also think that the war between the two parties is pushing more sensitive issues to the side (including what this blog is about), issues that will continue to kill more people, if not addressed, than covid is going to. And I’ve stated those issues clearly, neither does that mean I’m not concerned about covid or negating those deaths, or overlooking data regarding it, or overlooking how to deal with covid, or agreeing with false statements regarding covid. I don’t think one can discard major issues regarding health and what supports the immune system regardless that other issues are handled badly such as whether one wears masks, whether there’s social distancing and the death count. I think people should wear masks, I go along with social distancing and I don’t think the death count is exaggerated to the extent that’s reported, but I also believe that would people take care of themselves, would they have adequate water, would their environment not be as toxic, would they have any kind of decent working conditions and further more would they be able to take care of themselves that then along with the other measures that that might save more lives than just the measures that are stressed. And I am saying that that goes along with the other measures, not instead of it. But that might save in addition more lives, and also would continue to keep saving lives that were lost before covid ever turned up. To go back on topic, such a lack of being able to take care of oneself given economic standing and environment is used as a means to diagnose people with a mental illness, because of the symptoms that emerge from such lack, such disregard, rather than their living conditions are acknowledged.

    Richard, I’m not on either side, and I’m not going to contribute to the architecture that’s caused the deadlock. As I mentioned regarding polarization, both political parties in the US lean on each other creating an arch with two beams, both beams pressing against each other creating an arch supporting each other blocking any other party or more alternative views; and although you criticize me for stating you are polarizing, say that’s a heavy accusation and negative descriptors, you then do exactly that asking me what side I’m on, as if do I see any good in the other I’m on the wrong one, or that I have to chose sides. That’s polarizing, plain and simple. I’m not going to add to the pressure on either side holding the whole blockage in place.

    Also trying to intimidate that people have to take sides, in whatever conflict, as if that’s the only way or they are required to, also creates the kind of stress that not only causes inability to relate to what’s human on the other side, but causes the immune system to break down with the fight or flight response, which in this case is the fight response.

    My responding to your posts is also over now, your last post was radically off topic and I feel I’m being exploited playing catch for or thrown into someone else’s issues that already are highly off topic and distracting.

  • I’m trying to get this straight, to follow this, and wonder whether this is right:

    When you increase the percentage of children that are apt to get referred to as having ADHD, and also given that children are more likely to have covid, you dramatically increase over a whole arena the amount of correlation with ADHD and covid, because children are more likely to have it regardless of diagnosis. And then include this with age groups where covid is more dangerous, without making age differences, that adds to the scare. Then also negate to add that the younger group which is added to the total, is less likely to get any severe symptoms of covid, although they are included with the total of people that are more likely to get severe symptoms, and you can say that ADHD can lead to covid, and the ADHD should be medicated. And then the correlation with ADHD medications leading to severe symptoms – it breaks down the blood brain barrier, and also shouldn’t be subscribed if children already have breathing problems and/or heart problems – that’s also left out. As is the evidence that ADHD medications in general have troubling side effects, and can give severe side effects, and can lead to further diagnosis which wasn’t the case before such medications were so highly used.

    And I wonder how much I’ll be targeted as “non-reality-based,” would I point out that ADHD medications have created a whole pandemic in itself; leading to future diagnosis, disability, loss of life expectancy etc. and this whole setup is quite profound; because they’re dealing with a definition of an illness that’s not objective (there isn’t any real proof of a chemical imbalance), and what fixes the problem without such an assumption also isn’t acknowledged, added to that the “medications” for the disease aren’t seen to be fixing anything but a behavior that’s critiqued – although that quite marginally, and weighs more on the observance of those dolling out the medications than the person themselves or their family – and there’s no concrete evidence that that leads to better health physically, in fact it’s the opposite; and to go into the extreme, although I’m dolling out a comparison that undoubtedly would be used to make out I’m extremist, it’s like saying that putting your child on a leash, or in a straight jacket and locking him or her up in a closet is helpful when they are in danger of catching something running around too much and being hyperactive, while pushing to the side and suppressing what happens when you actually talk to the child in a way that they can relate to rather than just trying to control them.

    Beyond that in countries where they don’t have $$$$$$$ for medications, and inmates are treated in inhumane ways, they have more recovery; which isn’t to support inhumane treatment, it’s what “medications” really do.

    Or should we bring back the rod to get rid of covid. And is there compelling evidence that locking your children up will send the common flue into outer space where NASA sent a “vinyl” recording of the Queen of the Night aria?

    And would that be a “capitalist” setup to sell record players to the space aliens, or in this case vaccines against the flues that might end up infecting the rest of the Universe, which I do think is a problem.

    Now….

    sorry about that….

    This becomes very sad when children that just possible need a little bit of legroom are rounded up and used as evidence that because they get covid more often and survive it, that giving them “medications” that would compromise their ability to survive it would help others who already are more compromised.

  • You guys, I’m having to laugh at even trying to make sense out of words like capitalism or then socialism, which so often is made out to be the bad guy then..

    What goes on here with whistleblowers being persecuted, because they’d interfere with $$$$$$$$ actually points to a system that is basically what capitalist fundamentalists would say is what’s wrong with socialism, that an elite few can control others, and suppress dissenting information, so…..

    Quite rampant in corporate politics, such “socialism.”

    Or religions that say that the devil is out to torture you and your enemy, but then use him as their “disciplinarian” or “deterrent” would anyone not conform to their ideology and end up in a Hell that would have no function and might dissipate all together did they not need such a “deterrent” for mind control.

  • Regarding that one is supposed to show the change the psychiatrist, or the result, that he wants, but is the psychiatrist even dealing with the person he’s trying to change at all. And what if the person actually believes this?

    I’ve actually walked around for many years (about 25), a fraction of the time (maybe 10 to 15 percent ) being in a state psychiatry could call psychotic, although…

    What am I supposed to say about that,

    It really ended up being as simple as not realizing that I was reflexively pushing thoughts to the side or feelings I had encountered in my youth that then had already received such a critical response that the feelings themselves coming up made me uncomfortable, restless with the unconscious memory of the response to them, and I’d start doing something like drinking too much coffee, sometimes way too much. An attempt to disassociate. Well, then those feelings end up expressing themselves in a sort of dream state, with symbolism, that’s not just psychosis and non-reality based thoughts. And coffee (cigarettes too) act like psychiatric drugs, or are in ways, as is sugar. How they effect dopamine and with coffee at least also serotonin. And any restless anxious behavior trying to get away from an unconscious memory one isn’t able to comprehend can effect the brain, from the simple anxiety. Although ADHD drugs and antidepressants aren’t necessarily an attempt to disassociate from feelings and thoughts, that could be the case, or it could be that a person is forced to see their response as having something wrong with it, a symptom of a disease rather than their own nature an attempt at unconscious dissent or a response to their environment, that’s then called symptoms if it has anything to do with it, but ADHD medications and antidepressants also mess around with brain chemistry enough that one in 20 or so on those drugs end up with a bipolar diagnosis, right next to schizophrenic or schizo-effective. More drugs.

    I knew this the whole time about psychiatric drugs, and how they cause chemical imbalance when they disable one from expressing symptoms, and don’t treat a chemical imbalance but cause one which we are supposed to believe, so I wasn’t going for that; but the amount of ridiculous social behavior from people thinking they “know” you have a disease, and with all of the media hype regarding dangers of unmedicated people, when mostly the danger comes FROM how the medications disable the mind, you get so incredibly targeted by brainwashed people I’m still quite shocked how much that goes on, the same one is shocked at any number of false things people believe, or historically have. And they start talking about you en mass as if you’re some object completely disconnected from your own experience, and when you don’t believe them and/or aren’t following set method anything you do can be misinterpreted, when it’s at all unusual. Anything. Nor are people adverse to lying about you. It’s like I’m supposed to be someone else I never could be, and have tendencies I never could have and convince people that that’s not going to happen, which never could to begin with, in order for them to consider how I actually experience all of this, when I’m experiencing this, not them, although they think they know what’s going on. And that’s not just from psychiatrists who I actually didn’t have to deal with since the psychiatrist I saw gave me the leeway to not take medications and seek alternative routs. And the social behavior I just mentioned is just the instances when they have decided you have a disease, that’s not the hatred the bullying and the mobbing, which anyone being at all different can encounter, whether they have a diagnosis or not.

    I imagine this psychiatrist was talking about the result he wanted, much like someone promotes exerting their ego and redecorating their house, which makes me laugh already: How would the psychiatrist respond would you try to point out that he seems to be quite phobic about listening to what his clients really want? and I wonder how one could conflate that with him thinking his house might talk back to him.

    “Sir, you seem to be so scared of me having my own ideas it makes me wonder whether you have heard you house express dissent from how you redecorated it, and thus can’t deal with anything your brain might entertain that you think is psychotic.”

    One guy that used to live in an apartment underneath me, had been force treated, and had to see a “therapist” but didn’t want to. He told me it ruined his whole day, and he just hadn’t gone to see her, then she called him up and asked him if he needed a ride, where upon he either said no or hung up the phone. The next day the police showed up to escort him to the asylum because the “therapy” he said ruined his whole day was not something he wanted to go to, and in the asylum the psychiatrist asked him whether he thought anyone was after him….

    I was visiting someone at an asylum, she basically had needed someone to talk to as a child, had gotten for some reason hyperactive, and her parents had been told to put her on a drug that caused her to gain weight to such an extent that her father chased her around with a belt chastising her for that, she also couldn’t stay awake to pay attention because of the drugs, where she was further disciplined at school, and her parents told to take part in that. And as it seems endless to go on about such stuff I’ll try to continue, but there’s so many off shoots I don’ t know where it will end up. She had a relationship with a guy, and they were talking about getting married, which the father heard about from the guy but wasn’t supposed to, who you can pretty much guess wasn’t capable of much discussion with such matters, and the girl freaked out and put herself in the asylum and was voluntarily getting shock therapy. I understand that after that she was in a state asylum for a year, but a few (maybe 5 or 6) years ago I ran into her, and I asked her if she had someone to talk to, and she mentioned she lived with her mother and she could talk to her. Seems like a rather bumpy road just to find that (someone to talk to). Anyhow, back in the asylum I went to visit her in, there was a guy standing there that I had seen around, and he was standing at the central desk behind which the attendants and a secretary or so dwelt (computers and other recording devices such as pens at hand, and a phone probably also at their disposal); he looked so much like someone had propped him up there, with his jaw sagging as if he had just watched the most inexplicable thing happen, and so I asked him: “what are you doing here?” and he replied: “I don’t know.” So I simply stated: “Just follow the rules and do what you’re told, and you’ll get out.” When I got to the visiting area, the girl I was visiting and another patient started bounding back and forth like a tennis match with information as to why the guy was there. He had gone to the local “Catholic” hospital in the middle of the city, and had announced that he was pregnant. Now, I have to add that years before this, on a whim to do something crazy, I had called that same hospital and ask a joke inquired whether they had pregnancy tests for males. The lady that answered in a quite mundane voice stated that they didn’t have such tests. In fact she responded so blandly that I later for years wondered if it would have made any difference had responded by asking her to not put her makeup on while I’m asking her a serious question, and repeat the inquiry. I don’t know whether she actually was putting makeup on, it just gave that impression. But of course when this guy walked in there, not only did they not tell him that they didn’t have the ability to determine if he was pregnant, or what that might mean to him, they escorted him to the asylum, where he had been for maybe a month, and was so drugged up he looked like a zombie. The girl I was visiting and the other patients mentioned that the psychiatrists couldn’t figure out whether he thought he was pregnant, or whether he thought he was female. Serious diagnosis! Etc.. And why I’m going on about this is that the other patient had also mentioned how a psychiatrist had asked him whether he had homicidal thoughts: “Would you be here if I had homicidal thoughts,” he said he had responded. And then had of course been asked whether he had suicidal thoughts, and responded in the same vein with: “Would I be here if I had suicidal thoughts,” which he said seemed to make the psychiatrist mad enough that he was happy about that.

    Do you have homicidal thoughts?
    Do you have suicidal thoughts?
    Do you think anyone is after you?

    “No sir, when you force me on treatment, ruin my day by forcing me to talk to someone I can’t stand, I know that’s for my own good…”

    The guy that had some sort of pregnancy did get out, and when I ran into him in the park I later found myself feeding a whole group of sea gulls. Throwing pieces of bread up in the air which they caught.

    I for awhile did this more regularly, fed seagulls. In fact, I had found a whole loaf of discarded bread, which seemed to be in the works for the seagulls. It was just lying there askance half on the sidewalk half on the grass along the path I was riding on my bike after visiting my parents. I could have just left it there, but remembered the seagulls. I had taken it home squeezed and twiddled the soft bread into little balls, where it ended up in the freezer for awhile, till I put it in my back pack and took it with me having it long enough that the balls had melted. I ended up at a store with a big parking lot where the bus stops, and there always are a score of seagulls around there. I started throwing the bread up for them to catch, and I’ve never seen anything like it. The whole colony of seagulls was in the air, together, in complete harmony, and one by one, they took turns catching a piece of bread I threw up, never fighting about it, and letting the next one take his turn. It was the most amazing magnificent thing, and also as mundane to me as being able to breath air whose molecules have the same harmony. I think that the state I was in then could have easily been called psychotic by many people, in fact had I been “sane” I might have tried to make too much out of it, and it wouldn’t have happened.

    That’s called murmurating perhaps, if you’ve seen a whole flock of birds moving through the sky as one, https://theconversation.com/starling-murmurations-the-science-behind-one-of-natures-greatest-displays-110951 An incredible phenomenon of nature. Not something you can accomplish when the goal is the “result” you want, I think you have to be more in tune with harmony than that.

  • In case anyone wonders, by this time what the BLEEP this blog is about by now, down there somewhere I stated this:

    “I think that the Bollingers would be quite able to see what this blog actually is about, and that’s about whistle blowers, and what happens to them. Natural cures have very much the same story, over and over again.”

    Since this has gone way beyond the initial topic of the blog.

    Richard, my point remains the same from the beginning, you are polarizing a discussion using the terminology you use. Pointing out what you think is flawed information from a blog which deserves caution in believing or not is something different than categorizing the whole blog, or the people. That also fails to point out what exactly is flawed information, but instead categorizes a whole site. There basically isn’t ANY source just about that doesn’t have errors in it, that’s just how the human mind works which is more in the world of mental constructs and working those out, so there’s going to be mistakes; which is part of human nature in trying out different beliefs.

    Using such terminology also is nondescript, which you point out several times referring to “capitalism,” while defending mainstream cancer cures, and making it sound as if more natural cures here shared deserve the label of being seen as “capitalistic” and for profit oriented while natural cures don’t at all have the $$$$ to pay for the type of trials that the FDA demands (which the pharmaceuticals do have the $$$$$) although natural cures have been shown to work and there are other less expensive trials as accurate; beyond that the cures that aren’t pharmaceutical are often simply suppressed. And then you talk about who has a voice and who doesn’t, while natural cures DON’T have a voice in such a field and ARE suppressed. And what is the conspiracy theory then, a label or a belief that because they have such money and clout, that the drug companies and the big guys have the cures and the natural cures are “hoax” “nonsense” etc.?

    And the info about the inflated death counts the Bollingers share seems to be quite incorrect (although I’m not going to say that one can simply believe, without question, what the CDC and/or Fauci doles out, but in this case that seems to be accurate from them) but disbelieving the CDC remains what people hold onto when they’ve encountered such suppression by the FDA, but that DOES NOT make them Trump supporters, as little as that Del Bigtree because he also disagrees with mainstream medical belief is in the same ballpark as Trump etc. And you don’t know that about them, and to put them in such a category, also bringing politics into the discussion as if that’s another way to brand them (either way, are they or aren’t they) is again labeling and polarizing and bringing the conversation away from being articulate. It also initiates the architecture of the two main parties needing such polarization as two parts of an arch leaning against each other for two way hegemony.

    You’re creating factions and riffs and cleavages, and inciting divisions as if they are necessary; which is what leads to people getting lost thinking they need to chose sides, losing their voice, and without that they can’t find their way to know what their instincts tell them, which is the only way they can be themselves; and then they can’t find the treatment that would help them.

    I think that the Bollingers would be quite able to see what this blog actually is about, and that’s about whistle blowers, and what happens to them. Natural cures have very much the same story, over and over again.

    They (the Bollingers) state their beliefs very clearly in their “about” link on their site:

    “And the truth is that we should all have the freedom to choose!

    … freedom to choose the best cancer treatment protocol

    … freedom to say “yes” or “no” to chemotherapy

    … freedom to “try” a treatment that hasn’t been “approved” by the FDA

    … freedom to vaccinate

    … freedom NOT to vaccinate”

    And I can NOT keep on responding to a debate that has gone way off topic and out of the ballpark, I don’t have a secretary to keep track of it, and I have other things to do with my time than spending trying to keep track of it which has already been overloading me. You’ve tried to equate a widely diverse group of people: ” the Bollingers, Del Bigtree, Peter Breggin, Trump” as under the same roof and to be treated the same way, when they aren’t at all. And except for a few points you use to group them together they are widely divergent, and I think everyone there but Trump would be quite in agreement with the stance here on psychiatric treatment, but I don’t know other than Breggin their beliefs regarding it.

    And come to think of it in afterthought, you mention those most vulnerable to Covid, but fail to mention that they were already vulnerable to a host of issues such as inadequate, food, water, having to live in a toxic environment, high stress situations regarding economic standing; whether the Covid death rate is accurate again, HARPING on that, getting a whole planet obsessed with that, and overlooking more serious issues (that have been killing people more, and in all likelyhood looks like it will be allowed to continue) issues all of those people have had to deal with the whole time, again is using Covid media as a coverup to neglect more serious issues. Vaccinating everyone in Africa isn’t going to magically feed people or clean the environment there, nor stop wars for example, which is just ONE area.

  • How much is labeling things to discourage further delving into what’s stated any different from disabling the brain with chemical agents from being able to? All because one behavior or statement has been analyzed as dangerous, wrong, psychotic or delusional.

    I lose track of how many times I’m reading through a blog or watching a video on youtube that has truly insightful information beyond the scope of what one is supposed to believe is credible, and then one hears something akin to the moon landing being staged, and a government hoax. And even if that IS conspiracy theory, that doesn’t make the rest of what’s shared the case.

    It’s like people who have been diagnosed with a mental illness. Someone that’s called “schizophrenic,” is going to have gone through stuff that perhaps pushed them over the deep end, stuff they weren’t able to process, stuff they couldn’t get support just being listened to in regards, and stuff that’s beyond the perspective of what most people can even see going on; thus the person having gone through it is going to end up in the ghetto and beyond that the graveyard where such stuff is entertained, and having reached the incredible there is going to be stuff that’s concocted and not accurate, although perhaps symbolic. Stuff that gets in there just because it’s also beyond “sensible” boundaries where sensible boundaries have already been severely broken. But you don’t sort that stuff out dismissing anything that is seen as not sensible, when what the person already has experienced isn’t acknowledged and expression of that also is seen as not sensible.

    Another such example is where there’s talk of close knit alliances that are secretive, and then you hear about a Hapsburg Dynasty cult where there’s cloning going on along with a whole array of leaders that can be entangled into that and other fantastic connections just because of their position. That doesn’t mean everything else that’s brought up regarding elitist alliances is false.

    It’s quite common for a “schizophrenic” to think that there’s someone after them, or that there’s some sort of bugging, some sort of surveillance going on; that doesn’t mean that that’s all hoax, conspiracy theory or only psychotic paranoia. Someone having reached such a point as being called “schizophrenic” is already quite surveyed such that anything he does that’s not understood by those around him can be misunderstood, much like CIA surveillance in ways.

    Using such catch phrases as “nonsense” “conspiracy theory” “hoax,” and the others such as “paranoid delusions,” etc. is very much akin to turning off the brain with neuroleptics disabling it from looking into the situation further. And when it has stopped doing that seeing it as a return of “sanity.” A psychotic delusion isn’t just paranoid nonsense, it could be expressing something that’s hidden; and when there’s one – even very loud outspoken – error of presumption or fabrication in what’s shared, that doesn’t make everything else fill-in-the-blank-with-label-and-dismiss. In fact, there’s quite a bit of information one might need to have that’s going to be included with other stuff that’s not quite processed yet or presumed, or fabricated; the same as what’s contained in “psychosis,” could be symbolizing something that needs to be understood, not dismissed.

  • And sorry Richard, but the Bollingers could be “wrong” about how much the numbers are inflated. I looked myself and compared the numbers for my state with last years, and there are 4525 more deaths than last year, although the Covid deaths are listed as 5264; but there might be still a slight inflation because of the hype, although it doesn’t appear as if it’s to the extent the Bollingers claim. But sorry, the Bollingers I don’t see as not having logical reasons to be paranoid and mistrust the FDA or the CDC; given how alternative cures are suppressed, and what they have experienced as healing may not be given a voice, in comparison to what runs the economy. Someone who is “psychotic” may be paranoid that someone is after them, and be easily impressionable by anything (a chase scene in a movie, the news, church talk about demons etc.) but when you listen to them, and how they really feel, and what is going on with them, the feelings that never were given legroom, you understand why they fall back on that, and you learn that listening to them helps, as it would with anyone; and calling them psychotic, delusional, paranoid and all of the rest does as little as the adjectives you use of “hoax” “conspiracy theories,” “nonsense,” and fortunately I don’t remember the other one….

    And simply beyond that, the deaths caused by such things as sugar, alcohol, processed foods, toxicity in the environment, toxicity in foods even when not processed foods, and the amount of stress people have to live in, and how fear is used as mind control; all of that kills more people, and has been killing more people every month than the Pandemic, and none of that is really dealt with in any way in comparison to the illnesses that are caused by what has been and still is killing people more than the pandemic. Stores are still full of food marketed to make people addicted, a sort of drug to avoid any feelings that are less stimulant oriented, stuff that pushes away more subtle arrays of thinking that simply need space as thought rather than stimulant or anything that physical, simple feelings, thought, space, nothing… and I wonder beyond anything Fauci is doing, would due attention really be paid to all of what I just brought up, how much that would help people simply because it strengthens the natural immune system; and even with social distancing and masks, would due attention be given to everything that has been killing people more and that compromises the immune system so that it can’t deal with illness, how much that would have saved more lives on top of the other measures still kept in place. Simply were it stressed rather than the other measures, WITH the other measures still kept in place. And yet the Bollingers do address those things.

    And sorry, but I don’t look at stuff, to get fixated on one statement, and then give the whole site a label. I would be quite gullible and impressionable towards all sorts of stuff would I operate in such a fashion. Something it appears most ads advertising a commodity, whether it’s ideological or material, are designed to accomplish.

    And what is highly inflated beyond conception, is how much measures taken against the covid pandemic are made out to lead to creating a healthy environment, when a whole host of other issues causing more disease, and having caused more disease the whole time, not only kill more people, but compromise the immune system enough that it also allows covid to cause more deaths. And those issues are not even brought out in a reasonable manner, when we are told the issue is preventing deaths.

  • Sorry, in the above comment, where it reads “nor did I say that those promoting alternative methods might dismiss chemotherapy when it could be helpful” it should have read: “nor did I say that those promoting alternative methods don’t dismiss chemotherapy when it could be helpful,” It gets really to be something strident when both sides dismiss each other, leaving anyone trying to make a decision coerced into thinking there’s only one way, and the other wouldn’t work and should be prevented from being considered.

    And Richard I’m glad you survived cancer however you managed it, that’s great, but I think you have to give people the freedom to follow their own instincts about what treatment to follow. Everybody is different, and everybody responds different to various types of healing.

  • I’d appreciate it if I didn’t have to deal with straw man responses, I am already busy enough. I never anywhere said you weren’t a committed proponent of anti-psychiatry or anti-capitalism at all, which you imply I was making out to be otherwise or unaware of; that also really isn’t pertinent to the discussion, nor does it indicate that psychiatry or capitalism don’t have elements that are helpful beyond such labels; what I posted was simple responses regarding how the cancer Industry could be controlled by guilds and pro-profit, and suppress alternative methods; I also never said that chemotherapy wasn’t an appropriate response that would help people who it would help; what I said is what I said, which I shouldn’t have to repeat, and that’s that the information for alternative methods also deserves representation so that people can make their own decisions. That people have gone for alternative treatment and it didn’t work for them I’m sure has happened enough as that people who went for chemotherapy also weren’t helped enough, nor did I say that those promoting alternative methods might dismiss chemotherapy when it could be helpful. THAT should be a person’s own decision which they can make when both sides are represented without discrimination.

    Ameliorating what you invest in as being serious science that’s legitimate and then dismissing other information as pure nonsense and dangerous and that many people have died following such input doesn’t address anything deeper than more adjectives and what happens on both sides when people’ aren’t given enough information to make their own decisions, given instead “adjectives” and other means of persuasion no matter what side it comes from. I think a person, every person, would have the ability to follow their own instincts, their own intelligence, and their own insights and hopefully find what would work for them otherwise.

    I’m quite capable myself of looking through material and deciding what of it I find helpful, and what I find true, I don’t need anyone patronizing me telling me that everything reported in said site is utter nonsense or any of the rest of your dissuasion to even consider there might be truth there that would be helpful, or even something to consider on my own, rather than having been told how to see it beforehand, even if it’s only part of what’s said on the site that I might find helpful, rather than the majority. Or the other way around that most of it is helpful and the truth to make it something to invest in.

    And I really am starting to find it overloading to have to deal having to navigate through responding to insinuations that I’m not aware of what’s serious science, not aware of what kills many people, not aware of what can be trusted and what can’t; simply would I look into something someone else has clearly dismissed. Or that I’m not carefully siphoning through information would I not take part in such dismissal. Or that I’m jumping on a bandwagon that has a political cover, but is serving a reactionary political agenda.

    NONE OF THAT deals at all with the material at hand, only ways to label it. I thought that goes on enough regarding how people are supposed to see things here in a blog that tries to give people an alternative viewpoint on “mental health” or how to see their own responses to life.

    That you believe you have a healthy skepticism of Western medicine and take certain supplements, doesn’t validate your dismissive remarks regarding a site I’m not even supposed to entertain as having any truth to it at all. And I’m really tiring of even having to find words to respond to any of this.

    I believe both sides of the argument are misleading when they start simply dismissing the other side in such a fashion. Same as any person or any situation you might come across that you are supposed to see as a source of evil or the like. It wouldn’t have come your way if there wasn’t something to see there, I think what you are meant to see will repeat itself then, without any loss of potential as if it will go away. That’s how truth works not having such limitations, and it’s wanting to see it that allows it to emerge, not making out that there’s something against it you have to dismiss.

  • Beyond the preponderance of such name calling as Quacks and Conspiracy Theorists, which takes away from the ability to have a balanced discussion, I don’t agree that one can so quickly call something quackery, whether you agree with their overwhelming criticism of chemotherapy or not, they promote a lot of curing agents that are completely natural and non evasive, and wouldn’t compromise the immune system like chemotherapy does. And there are a number of people that were sent home by mainstream medicine to die because there was no cure – same as psychiatry and its story about chemical imbalances and their drugs being the only cure and what must be promoted, and when it doesn’t work there’s no cure – but there are people that changed their lifestyle and/or tried alternative methods, and recovered their health to become cancer free, despite being told there was no cure. That’s worth hearing about, but those stories and that evidence gets regularly shut down by the FDA, and its cronies. Same as one not hearing the stories of those that recovered from the psychiatric diseases demanding psychiatric drugs, when they did it because they got off of their drugs, or never were on them.
    And a lot of what’s shared there that simply nurtures the natural immune system might be good for anyone, especially those who might be targeted, because of stress, for having a psychiatric illness.

    Again, there are people that were told by the medical profession that there was no cure and that they would die, but were instead healed by alternative methods, quite the same as people told by psychiatry that if they didn’t take their meds they couldn’t function, there wouldn’t be any cure, and yet found alternative methods and recovered; that also should be freely shared, but isn’t.

    And such terms as “nonsense” “conspiracy theories,” “hoax” and “quackery” all within the same two sentences, this does NOT point out to me that a person using such language is duly open to discussion about such points. The whole ARENA of stuff that’s called “conspiracy” theories every time it challenges mainstream academic, religious, political or medical doctrine…, if I would start going on about that I would have to fill books. If one disagrees, then you present a different viewpoint, or forward information, but all terms used above are just as easily used by people pumping up what this blog exposes as being misleading and should be exposed rather than labeled as “hoax,” “quackery,” “conspiracy theories,” or “nonsense.”

    Neither do I think, same as with psychiatric treatments, you can simply dismiss that a lot of the “non quackery” cancer cures aren’t pumped up by money, and that more natural cures aren’t dismissed by the FDA, because of guild, wall street, corporate media, and corporate political pressures. Cancer is even bigger money than psychiatry.

  • Yeah, I use thieves oil diluted with olive oil, and I have a reverse osmosis water filter that takes out the fluoride. Fluoride it is said calcifies the pineal gland, and I noticed that would I sit down just to rest, especially when I was working on fiction, my mind would just go into hyper mode and spin images at me like at least two a second, as if it was trying to get me to dream but had to work against something, when I got a fluoride filter this stopped, and I didn’t dream for a month it seemed, there was so much more resonance in my sleep. But that would all be dismissed.

    Which is another thing to bring up thieves oil, because that’s what was used with the big plague hundreds of years ago, and still works as good as any chemical agent, but then no one can have a copyright on it, and it’s biodegradable, and it doesn’t provoke the super germs like anti-biotics and the rest….

    I don’t know what the FDA would say about thieves oil, like what they made up about artemisia recently, not the FDA but some supposed scientific authority said that, although it’s been an effective cure for malaria for hundreds of years, and helps people that modern pharmaceuticals couldn’t, that using it could cause malaria to mutate, this when it’s been used for hundreds of years, still is fine, and there’s ample proof chemical agents provoke such problems and natural ones don’t. They’ve proven now that Artemesia extract helps with Covid, although the herb unextracted doesn’t seem to do that much, but no one hears about this.

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-scientists-test-artemisia-plant-against-coronavirus/a-53944514

    In fact I think that helps with all viral infections….

    Sugar, alcohol, medical treatments, heart disease from a bad diet, diabetes from a bad diet etc. all of that still kills more people than covid daily; so why isn’t that rationally dealt with if they care so much about our health, and would changing all of that (getting people off of sugar and bad processed foods, giving them good natural healing help rather than pharmaceuticals), how much would this help, or would it help more than what they are doing, because it would strengthen the immune system. And that doesn’t push one symptom away to create a whole array of new ones all targeted for new drugs that only get rid of one or a few symptom creating new ones (and addiction). And that’s not even mentioning slowing down the pace of life, getting rid of stress: “In addition, medical research estimates as much as 90 percent of illness and disease is stress-related” from https://nasdonline.org/1445/d001245/stress-management-for-the-health-of-it.html#:~:text=In addition, medical research estimates,been linked to stress factors.

    or spiritual healing that always has been there and isn’t going away either, as little as our spirit or our soul is……

    I didn’t even know that about hand sanitizer which is all over the place, I really just thought that it smelled offensive and made the hairs in my nostrils stand on end, like so many other harsh chemicals.

  • Elan, it’s not just side effects, it’s withdrawal symptoms hiding addiction… both being used for further “diagnosis.” In fact that they even acknowledge such side effects and list various symptoms of what they also list as symptoms of a “disease,” considering that listed, it becomes pretty amazing that people don’t immediately start questioning what’s going on, but then again they feel safe being programmed to see pharmaceuticals as creating stability. Despite everything. And the withdrawal symptoms, if at all acknowledged also then are defined the same as symptoms of the disease….

    And enough of the side effects are worse than the initial diagnosis needing “medications” also, as are the withdrawal symptoms.

    It’s like thinking that having terrified a child to stop expressing their feelings, to stop having their own viewpoint, and thus to be open for indoctrination is how you raise children to be good productive beings. And then give them rewards. All to quake an alarm when they show that they don’t even know what they are thinking anymore (they’re “crazy” “psychotic”), and then suppress any method that might help them see it’s not a disease but an attempt to regain understanding of their own subconscious….

    And the real break with reality is the people thinking they have to wield force to make people programmable, as well as disabling their minds with drugs to stop them from being able to question what’s going on.

    As if truth is something you can only instill if you can coerce people into such beliefs by punishing them when they don’t believe it.

  • The “efficacy” as treatment for people with “severe” symptoms of “schizophrenia” or “bipolar,” that any “anti-psychotic” supposedly is, pretty much isn’t true either. Suppressing symptoms, that aren’t objectively discernible amongst different “clinicians,” that are often politically based or biased, based on societal or cultural norms, don’t take into account that they might be expressing unexplored trauma or insights of any sort that’s not understood by the clinicians, or simply a need to break away beyond behavioral confines to allow for whatever else might be experienced there that could be critical to the development of the personality…
    Even suppressing such symptoms, were it a sign of alleviating a disease, doesn’t pan out in the long run, where there’s more relapsing, more disability, loss of life, side effects, more paranoia against symptoms from society: might actually mean that symptoms can be best understood to be expressing something that can be understood in the long run, and not just “non-reality-based” neurology, a disruption, an annoyance, a danger.
    Nor is the idea that a person is a danger to themselves and others panning out, because the treatment has proven to be more of a danger for the person receiving it and for society, given the epidemic, given the paranoia against what otherwise could be understood, and given the danger towards violence that psychiatric treatment can cause with it’s pharmacological agents: all clearly in correlation to the biological model for mental illness, a model that also clearly causes chemical imbalance, although it alleges it treats one.

    Way back in 2003 the Hunger strikers https://mindfreedom.org/kb/2003/ very clearly pointed out how mental illness definitions are more based on societal constructs that define poverty, minority status, and war.

    I hadn’t read the other articles yet, about the supposedly new drug, Lumateperone or Caplyta; How a drug 8 people or so have to be on for one of them to get improvement, and then the others most likely will get bad side effects, not to mention withdrawal symptoms would they want to get off of something that’s not “helping” them; when in reality that help (one in how many?) could be highly deceptive, highly fear based against symptoms that could otherwise be understood, given that in the long run what helps causes more relapsing, recycling, disability etc…..

    And then in the article about Lumateperone: “As Lieberman and colleagues confessed in a 2017 paper, there has never been a “randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study” of an antipsychotic in medication-naïve patients. In other words, there is no good scientific record that these drugs are effective, even over the short term, in psychotic patients whose brains have not been changed by prior exposure to antipsychotics.”

    I have read somewhere recently that whatever they identify as being the organic part of the disease turns up in people that haven’t been on medications yet, and those that are. That’s quite amazing. “WE HAVE FOUND A CAUSE WE CAN CALL BIOLOGICAL, but it turns up before and after medication.” They don’t mention that medication clearly caused swelling of the inner cortex, and shrinking of the frontal lobe, with anti-psychotics, but they said it was from the biological disease, before they were confronted with medications causing that problem; they also say schizophrenia comes from too much dopamine, but don’t share that anti-psychotics for “schizophrenia” in the end cause that as well, because the brain starts to produce more; same with anti-depressants causing serotonin depletion in the end.

    People with a higher intelligence are more likely to have “psychotic episodes,” which means people who are going to be able to see past all of the corruption of “evidence”; people who are more creative are more like to have “psychotic episodes,” meaning people who can relate to an “invisible” world that expresses harmony, even thought it might seem “non reality based” because it’s invisible, people who are oppressed are more likely…

    The dismissal of deaths, during the trials and afterwards, is like a war zone to take over a territory compromising the lives of who already live there, making those who live there scared of themselves, and if that doesn’t work make them out to be dangerous dissidents, and try to make everyone else believe it.

    I’ve been “psychotic” and not only does society try to make you paranoid from understanding what the symptoms express, but it doesn’t even acknowledge that there was a reason for the anxiety or distress that lead to it, as if that never happened, no empathy for listening to a personal experience if it challenges their beliefs; as if it’s not expressing anything; beyond that when the subconscious starts creating perspective as “non reality based” as a dream that has meaning, but can’t be videotaped while it’s happening, that’s not acknowledged; and in such an environment where none of that very human experience is given leg room, is welcomed, is acknowledged, one starts becoming uncomfortable with the natural responses seeking expression, and pushes them away, resulting in a myriad of distractions to avoid such feelings, even what causes annoying “symptoms,” stuff that’s searching expression and won’t be pushed away; and then you might be told “don’t do that,” without again any acknowledgment of what cause and effect is – after years of this, and realizing every time I got “psychotic,” I started doing fill-in-the-blank again, at first fluctuating between the realization of it, and then acting it out again; until I finally realized I was pushing something away; but that also isn’t anything one can define in a “sane” way, it’s more OK, I don’t have to do anything, just feel this uncomfortable thing that isn’t going to hook up with society’s fear based demands that tell me survival isn’t being myself lest I find out who I am…….

    And impossible things would always happen, they still do….

  • Thank you for your response. What I was trying to point out a bit is that it’s not just labeling feelings and responses as pathological, but teaching people to discriminate, to hate, and to feel they are being attacked by what simply could be feelings that need to be felt.

    And it’s acculturated.

    Such strange terms as inability to conform to consensual reality deportment, or statistical based norms I have come upon when people try to defend “difficulty” someone is having regarding “symptoms,” and although when I encountered those terms it was in regards medications, that same idea exists when people chose any number of means to disassociate or push those feelings to the side. Having been ingrained with the reflex that it’s pathological, or an attack, or something to get rid of.

    And what I was trying to get at before I took a side turn in the prior paragraph was that when a group of people bond together with such ideas about conformity, and that when everyone acts out a belief in whatever they use as a bonding mechanism, just moving away from that subconsciously, not being able to adapt anymore, that can bring up a feeling of discomfort, that can be labeled as a symptom of a psychiatric illness (and in many ways the system is set up that way) when in reality it’s perspective that would give true insight, albeit cause difficulty with everyone suddenly being appalled that so and so wore a strange outfit to church, or the mall or whatever happens (someone says something they are supposed to think is crazy, be ashamed of, know it’s going to be ridiculed or cause great shock so they shouldn’t etc.)…

    And that’s not just the DSM, that “statistical based norms,” or “consensual reality deportment.” It’s basic fear based patterning in society, as if everything is safe and in order would everyone adapt to set rules, rules which could be completely arbitrary, just to have something to believe in, rather than having any true logic to them.

    But the real part of being part of a community is to not push those feelings to the side, to listen to that voice, because that’s really something EVERYONE has, even when they are acting out a whole fabricated personality, an ego state trying to be something else, they won’t escape anything as involuntary and part of evolution as feelings they want to push to the side.

    I myself have had what I might term “panic attacks,” or just the feeling of extreme anxiety, when I was drinking too much coffee, and that was oh, more than twenty years ago and I should have paid it more heed for sure. Although at that time I liked the way coffee made me feel what I thought was warm, though really it was more buzzed and artificially stimulated. The “panic attacks” were just trying to maybe tell me not to do so much coffee, and so it wasn’t that I needed another drug to fix it. And I of course by that time, having been marginalized and diagnosed, was too insecure to be able to truly navigate through that whole matrix to even know I was pushing feelings to the side using coffee as a means to do so. I actually thought I liked coffee so much I felt defeated that it effected me that way. I was in Europe for four years, before all of this, where every time I went to visit a fellow student they would always offer coffee, and then when I came back to the USA and went to colleges, I always ended up in the cafeteria with a cup and a donut or something. I had also started smoking which also has its effects; but later in life when I had what I would term as extreme disturbing stuff going on I didn’t know how to process, and again caused me to feel a way that I wanted to get rid of those feelings, I ended up sitting on my parents porch the whole night smoking and drinking coffee. That’s thirty years ago. It took me thirty years of going in and out of what could be seen as psychotic episodes (fueled by coffee and cigarettes although I stopped with cigarettes 14 years ago) before I realized that the whole blanket of emotions I was avoiding were OK for me to feel. Whether that’s simply being scared I wouldn’t fit into whatever I had been programmed to believe survival was, or whether that was not seeing there were other ways, or whether that was not being used to how quiet and involuntary the real guidance was. The kind of stuff we all do for what we believe is “survival” thinking we have to do “something” because otherwise everything will fall apart. It took me thirty years to find out what was really going on, and I never was on psychiatric drugs. Just seeing the friends I had already had on such agents go through what they did, and also information from Mind Freedom, taught me early on to avoid that; but I wasn’t aware how I was pushing my own thoughts away, much the same people are taught to believe psychiatric drugs are some magic to get rid of bad feelings or behaviors. And that’s really not just coffee or cigarettes which is what I’ve mentioned so far, that’s all sorts of behaviors and ways of responding, or the desires of just frantically thinking one chance or the next was how I would fit into the system, and then having it sabotaged because I would get “psychotic” again, which really was simply feelings taking on symbolism in “psychotic” scenarios, akin to fiction and what it does to have meaning; because there is something going on there beyond it just being “psychotic.” Since I’ve learned that I was pushing those feelings away that I could just give some leg room, not push to the side, sort of surrender to, and that then there’s no need for the whole “psychosis,” machinery. It was Charlie Goldsmith pointing out how even what we call anxiety has a natural intelligence would we just allow ourselves to feel it rather than pushing it away, and then it’s had its say and can dissolve. And I can’t really describe exactly what it is I learned not to push to the side, it becomes more a realization that there’s a whole other way of responding. Even when I knew that starting to drink coffee again, which I had stopped for months, that it effected me, I would after months of “sobriety” find myself starting to drink 3, 4 or more cups a day, and after a week or so would end up in this state where something else would take over that could be labeled as psychotic. By some miracle I never was forced drugged because that would have been the end of me. I went through on and off coffee like that for four years although by far most of the time I wasn’t “psychotic,” but then I heard something Charlie Goldsmith said, and realized that was something I was pushing to the side that made me reflexively start drinking coffee, that was a conditioned reflex towards whatever it was that I was pushing to the side, and that then I started drinking too much coffee, which could have been anything (whole list of “bad” habits) to disassociate. And I can’t really put it into words other than it’s just something else besides: “Don’t do THAT!,” which then includes everything I start doing when “psychotic.” It’s really weird because I can’t put it into words, maybe it doesn’t need words, it’s just a different way of responding. More of a surrender than thinking I have to do something. I imagine if I had had a different childhood and had parents that were more interested in allowing me the space to express my feelings, my thoughts were they different than theirs, and my insights and experiences, that then I would have been more used to responding in what I call a different way I can’t really describe, but then I wouldn’t have maybe found it for myself. So it isn’t really labeling it as trauma from my youth either.

    Even at a spiritual level there’s a difference between things that are tangible enough that you think you can describe or identify them, and stuff beyond that. When I was having the crisis that got me to start drinking coffee the whole night on my parents porch, I had gotten baited by psychic people that actually used the spiritual energies to point out worldly stuff, and also stuff about past lifetimes that does no one any good unless you let go of it (as if there’s some judging authority in Heaven akin to our legal system punishing people for transgressions in past lives), but the hyped up energy of knowing things you don’t need to and making it into something else than it is, this I associated with drinking too much coffee (because it made me aggressively want to know), and then would along with just being frustrated out of my mind drink coffee the whole night buzz myself up hoping to get some vital information, as if it was some sort of ammunition. Whatever there was for me to know at such a level only came to me after I stopped acting out in such a manner, and then it was still stuff to let go of. After so many years with channels, mediums and psychics, some real spiritual healers came in my life. And incidentally, after seeing the first one, a healer from the Philippines called a psychic surgeon, which he would say is not an accurate term along the lines I just pointed out, after he treated me in a way that this world would say is impossible but with him simply happens, I somehow knew I was given 20 more years in my life, which would be the amount of time that psychiatric drugs might take off of a person’s life, in general, the lessening of life expectancy with anti psychotics. I simply knew that there also was just on this earth, a place for me to go to feel such healing, such “impossible” things rather than thinking that something so beautiful couldn’t exist, and knowing that might have given me a place to let go so that I wasn’t baited into the system by all of their provocations. But the healers and the healing energy work very differently from “psychics,” and such…

    It’s not about something the ego makes you think you need to know

    It’s simply that there is something there beyond that…

    Over the years I’ve seen and talked to quite a few healers, and Jesus has become my friend. Just that, a friend, not an object…..

    It’s difficult having gone the wrong direction, but that’s how we learn, when you go the wrong way, you only learn more why the right way works, and that’s really the only thing that could remain from it….

  • Rose, I notice you’re still using the terminology “panic attack,” which is then used as a “symptom,” needing you know what. What if that was just a normal response to whatever was going on, and if you allowed yourself to just feel that without labeling it, even if you didn’t like it, it could have just been trying to tell you that you could manage your time better than trying to stay up all night, and the quiet would have come from that, but just calling it a panic attack is how you get baited into the system. I think.

    Because it seems that along the way you had a voice trying to tell you this isn’t right, which you mentioned……

    I think you’d be surprised what peace that voice can bring in contrast to…..

    Everything is supposed to be measured in physical terms, but what if that voice comes from another place without such orders of difficulty, even though the response is to think: “no, I need fill-in-the-blank instead?

  • The point I was trying to make is how people that support using violence (whether it’s just or criminal, actually) use the same “evidence” that there is a “lessening” of symptoms of the problem in order to deny that in reality in the end there’s more of it, which you see with any system which supports such ideas. Every “government,” fighting the most wars, having the harshest penal system shows what the result is. The same as the mental health system saying they are creating healing by suppressing symptoms, symptoms that when not truly attended to cause more of the problem.

    And Caroline really!? You actually try to put forth that there’s no rule of law, or even that without the ability to wield the right to punish people who don’t follow set laws there’s no “government?” Which in reality you make out only exists then if those rules are enforced by a system allowed to traumatize others when they don’t follow those “rules.” And when you have a system where people are on mass controlled by fear in such a manner than you have “rules of law?” There are natural laws, by the way. When you are kind to someone it changes their metabolism, how their body responds to stimuli, and that promotes healing… compassion,… empathy; and yet there was never need for any enforcing agent to create such an effect when it evolved as part of the human experience and how the body responds. Is that supposed to not exist then, because it’s better to traumatize people into behaving a certain way. And then there are natural laws, no penal system is enforcing those, and without such “enforcement” water still boils at the same temperature; only if that rule is broken that’s called a miracle, but those happen under completely different rules than believing traumatizing a person to be controlled is effective.

    Jesus talked about a Kingdom of Heaven, I don’t think the rules in that kingdom have any need to punish or control people wielding the right to traumatize them when they don’t obey set array of commands or “rules.” In fact they have nothing to do with that other than to show there’s a different way, a way that works.

    And Caroline it really concerns me, because you mention fears about withdrawal induced manic psychosis, but…
    Endeavors, as much as they have become part of your heart, they might be getting you to go along with all sorts of stuff that, when you are that vulnerable, and trying to deal with even the heartbreak of having thought too well of them or if not them others, because going off of “medications” is going to heighten intelligence to see such things and sharpen the memories, there’s going to be stuff you have to let go of, even though it consequently makes you feel like you are nowhere, and then you are offered these “magic” solutions backed up by what seems like the power to make change, and that will make you “manic.” The real solutions don’t involve the stress or the “magic.”

    And I notice I’ve been trying to explain things, things that are extremely difficult to explain, and which one has to experience, or realize you already have and weren’t cognizant of it.

    So, I found this I shared with a healer, which might make what I was trying to say a little clearer, but I really have to bow out now:

    There’s a term called the Atonement, and as Jesus was explaining that I got a visual image, something akin to rays of energy or light, like a blossom or a fountain, but there’s an incredible ability to sort of accelerate and catch something, which was the first thing that expressed itself about it. But then I understood, it’s like it when someone sees something, something akin to catching someone from running into the street when there are cars rushing by, or before they would fall or anything like that. But with the atonement, it’s that it catches us before we would invest in the wrong thing. Because really, when we believe we need to invest in defenses, we actually invest instead in needing something against something else, and actually are demanding a reason for such a defense, which we are making up out of fear of letting go of what in reality is demanding it (the defense) be justified, and thus causes the problem. You can see that is so many places. The police, the military, all places where the right to traumatize others is given and invested in; and were society not worshiping that kind of mind control people never would invest in using trauma for criminal gain. It wouldn’t occur to desperate people having been discarded by society, and having lost faith in anything free of that, like spirit is meant to be.

  • When you think you need “defenses” you also need whatever you believe you need the defenses for in order to excuse that; and then you believe yourself separate from what you’re defending against. You also believe all of the time and space and physical “reality” that consequently gets put into play has to do with needing defenses, rather than not needing defenses you wouldn’t need an excuse for them. Thus we have the whole supposed impasse, and are told that things don’t go away like that, and it’s crazy to believe you have such ability such that by looking at things differently they change, or it’s arrogant to think you have such ability. Would one truly pay attention, you might see how much stress you cause in your life denying this, and what resentments you put on anyone else not taking part in believing that what doesn’t work needs more people to believe in it, as if then it would be working. And then instead failing to allow yourself to gain such perspective, or assimilate what’s really happening that points out such truths. And thus you have to make yourself separate from it otherwise not needing an excuse for defenses the problem would go away along with the excuse you’re defending, which is the real cause not what consequently happens to show you you could have let go of it, could have responded differently, could have seen things differently. You also then limit what you call the physical to being deprived of the “miracles” that would otherwise happen to solve the problem what they would do non violently. And then there’s even fear against, that, because when a thought system is – even non violently – shown to be in error, people might still have to such a degree invested in it that they perceive a great loss. And can fuss endlessly about this, pointing out a myriad of occurrences they refuse or fail to see aren’t truly caused by anything outside of themselves. And you’re doing that, it’s not anything outside of you you need to defend against. That’s why Jesus tried to teach forgiveness. Because it works, it’s what changes direction to alleviate a cause rather than bury it by the effects is elicits that are blamed on something else.

    The whole mental health system is a good example of this. When “medications” turn off “symptoms” for an interim, and the cause isn’t deal with, that’s called healing, and the whole consequent epidemic that comes from it is blamed on the “disease” rather than the lack of perspective, even when people who aren’t “medicated” in general do better beyond the initial interim when symptoms are suppressed and before there’s the eruption of relapsing, paranoia against normal human responses to difficult or unusual situations, more disability, lose of life expectancy, a plethora of side effects. Thus go “defenses” against a “disease.”

  • I’m not going to dwell on this, and only briefly looked over responses, after bowing out, which I’m still doing: Bowing out.

    Again to point out what’s “marketed” to be a solution, but might be the opposite. Beyond the Nuremberg trials, it’s in many ways the international court which set Germany up for Hitler to take over before that, given how much debt was piled on them [Germany] after WW1, and Hitler could deceive a desperate people and himself. It’s also now the international court, the IMF etc. along with political behavior, that is what is decimating countries where extremism pops up. Not to mention what is happening to the environment, and already happened to indigenous cultures all over the planet that respected the environment. And we’re to believe that’s promoting a working economic system and the consumer oriented society it’s exploitation offers is “happiness,” or the pursuit of it.

    And what I believe is a rule is that when you stop investing in what causes a problem: that violence is a means to an end, and supposedly stops violence: then you get a different society, which every country that has a more compassionate penal system has shown to be the case.

    I also think it’s a rule that you aren’t separate from the actions that happen in your life, or the time and space “around” you, and that it’s a sad misrepresentation of what the human condition is to make out that there are such boundaries. With what’s called psychosis already, which is an emotional projection of issues a person when allowed to can learn to understand and reach in to a part of themselves that deals with how they respond to life, given memories, beliefs, etc; that changes what can’t be seen as physical yet because it is the future, and so is more objective than physical reality. I think thought is the same, and when you stop thinking you need the right to wield violence and that punishing people is a proper mind control method, then you stop making that part of reality. And then time doesn’t have to repeat itself trying to show you that you are investing in the cause and pushing the solution to the side, and in reality judging yourself; judging yourself as if you’re crazy that thought itself would make a difference, even with what happens physically or plays out in time.

    I don’t see thought or the mind as being so weak that it has to invest in violent control tactics, and looking for morality to justify violence gets in the way of peace rather than it creates it, and doesn’t really solve the problem but puts into ideology exactly what gets corrupted into what you say you are trying to prevent. Both sides believing violence is a means to an end. And the side actually respected as an authority having more the means to put an end to it, by not investing in violence as a means to an end, and not putting such ideology out to get corrupted.

    That there’s another way is what Jesus taught me himself, and it works.

  • Caroline: There isn’t a penal system on the planet that doesn’t disregard collateral damage, putting innocent people in jail, or as in the United Stated executing innocent people such as Troy Davis. I don’t think that’s a working system, and what Jesus truly taught is something different, which his parable was part of sharing. And that is a working system. It also deals with the cause rather than perpetuating the philosophy that causes the problem: the idea that violence is necessary to control people, and trauma or deterrent is a valid mind control method. A society that doesn’t breed such ideology won’t have what it’s trying to prevent excusing violence as if it’s a moral tool. That violence is a means to an end is then instead seen to be something to discard both for the “perpetrator” and the “means of defense.”

    Further more, when I share (in another blog, which you responded to Caroline) the fact that perhaps Jesus was homosexual and relates to me free to express it, or that his life would have been different had he something such as that to surrender to, such intimacy, you mention that the “Pope,” a man who perpetuates the erroneous pretentious idea that homosexuals are sinners (but you should love them), that he tells me that Jesus is madly in love with me. Oh. Really!?

    And then Jesus parable about the Good Samaritan gets turned into a discussion promoting the penal system rather than what it’s about, this in a blog about marketing. The Catholic Church – which in contrast to the DSM not anymore saying homosexuals have something wrong with them, still perpetuating such nonsense – and the penal system which arrests someone for walking around non violent but naked are excused and marketed then?

    The truth isn’t something that you can defend with violence, with excuses for punishing those that don’t follow it, because then it’s not truth anymore, it’s mind control. I already stated that. As moral as you think you are being about what you believe is necessary with violence, you can’t be defending the truth, and so you are not dealing with the real situation. You aren’t communicating to humanity, to any other human. You haven’t looked at what’s really going on. You haven’t addressed the causes. And you’re perpetuating – with a double edged sword – what causes the problem. You’re not relating to the person, and you’re not relating to the whole matrix that causes the problem. And you’re perpetuating it.

    And nothing can destroy the truth. Jesus wasn’t crucified, he was resurrected. And I REALLY don’t think he’s going back to saying we need the very institutions that put a death warrant on his teachings. For what? So we can “understand” his parable by warping it out of context?

    And as I said already, investing in the very system that allows people to be arrested, taken to the the asylum, and force treated, isn’t going to change what’s going on, but showing there’s another way yourself: that will. And letting go of what is in collusion with what doesn’t work will show you there’s another way. Saying that your life is in disarray because of that-system, and then promoting the very tools that keep it in place, doesn’t work.

    Trying to control other people using punishment is what fascist systems do, and criminals, and people that are offended that what works is robbing them of the idea that when they try to control another using punishment they are good, and just and better.

    I’m going to bow out of this discussion now and spend time with my “invisible” friend thanking him for being there. Someone who was able to direct me away from what doesn’t work to what does, and have even physical healing take place, although that’s not what it’s about, since that could be anything to show there’s another way.

  • I really don’t think that Jesus parable was about making sure the robbers get punished, in fact it was about the opposite.

    Punishment in reality is nothing more than a means of mind control, and the very reason you have a psychiatrical institution playing game theory with gain and loss, along with perceived punishment or loss when not going along with the program, and thus you have a bunch of people who don’t know what they are doing at all.

    Truth simply speaks for itself, and remains separate from needing such means to make it out to be the truth. You can’t punish someone to see the truth, that’s mind control, the truth speaks for itself, and has to otherwise it isn’t the truth. And if our whole society would be concerned about helping people who have been wounded, rather than getting points for it, or deciding for some reason they are undesirables, we’d have a different society, that understands trauma.

    There’s really no difference in logic for the robber or the people that are supposed to punish the robber, in that they both think that violence is a means to an end, only the robber might sooner find out it doesn’t work, since he or she doesn’t have societal backing for their behavior; and so might sooner question it. And then there’s the whole lack in society that caused the abandonment of people who become robbers, which is economic as well as the simple ideology society has about how you control a populace, which involves justified violence, and wars, and the rest of it: nurtured fear, discrimination,stereotyping and prejudice which then leaves a person unable to see how they might find what truly might otherwise be there for them, including thought.

    Instead of deciding who is supposed to help you, you might find that you don’t need an insurance to pay for the right helper, and you don’t need a
    “church” making you feel you are founded in your process, or any other institution, and that simply being human is enough. Rather than “they” are supposed to do it, so if they don’t everything is in a disarray.

    Or was the person that got hurt supposed to decide that the pharisees should help him, and then punish the robber, rather than seeing there’s something else that helps, which represents a whole other way of thinking?

    And when you show what works, you’re showing what the truth is, to say that needs defense through punishing those that don’t see that really means you’re trying to defend something else, something that isn’t the truth anymore, but an excuse for wanting to control others.

  • You’re balancing on a very thin line when you say the “doctors,” don’t spike someone with blood thinners. There are enough medications that aren’t good for your heart, and then there’s the neglect towards issues like diet, exercise, enough rest, true emotional health, giving someone the strength to feel they can get out of uncomfortable situations rather than “cope” and get sick or fight and get stressed out and sick.

    The present pandemic, which is all over the planet, and the whole political change of scenery; there are a whole list of things that presently kill more people than viruses, yet there’s nothing in comparison done about it. The first month of the pandemic more people died (in developed countries at least) because of the effects of sugar than the whole total so far of the pandemic, or something like that; and then you have the ALSO completely preventable problems in the developing country like food shortages etc..

    And we will never, as far as I know, have herd immunity to sugar, or to starvation.

    It’s more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in ways than it’s truly caring about your health.

  • I’m sorry, this: “We become scared of stuff that would help us, because of how it had been accepted, and the electric shock to our system when the whole arena of memories kicks in can be quite severe.”

    I meant to say we become scared of stuff that would help us, because of how it had NOT been accepted in our environment, whether socially or family or institutional of whatever. Stuff we tried to express and was met with weird discrimination. And it causes a lot of anxiety when those feelings come back, the electricity behind all the memories even. But you can learn to actually feel those feelings and feel safe in your own space, who you are, not how you’re supposed to respond.

    And it’s really hard when you just try to communicate something, and get the strange response from others that don’t want to accept the simplest thing. Caroline, you seem really positive, and it sounds like you wanted to simply share that you had found a place you feel at home at, this to the psychiatrist, but his response was truly bizarre, and truly paranoid and psychotic. And then psychotic becomes a strange word, because those who are labeled “psychotic,” actually really have been dis-inhibited from continuing to fit into a programming that doesn’t really work for them (or work for someone to be true to their humanity), but those labeling them are the ones that really would show the symptoms they are seeing in another. Fundamentalism is the real problem regarding anything that’s not reality based. It just makes no sense to deny what really statistically has lead to healing, the rest is all indoctrination, brainwashing. He’s the one that has a riff with reality, he needs to perhaps be deprogrammed. Getting rewards from the economic system doesn’t mean that your beliefs are reality based. But don’t you compromise the rest of your life trying to say things to him he would discriminate against, how you said you deal with it is great.

    But psychotic becomes a strange word, I don’t see it myself as something that has the properties of how it’s defined by the mental health system. And how they define it shows mostly more signs of what they call an illness than is the case in who they are diagnosing. And so I don’t really like to call them psychotic (the one’s doing the diagnosing) as non reality based as their thinking might be, because psychosis is something more sensitive, and reaches out into someone’s soul; the brainwashing that’s non reality based doesn’t do that, doesn’t have such sensitivity and doesn’t reach into someone’s soul, and it doesn’t give emotional wounds legroom to express themselves, neither does it give alternative insights that are necessary such legroom. It’s all backwards.

  • Heh, there’s a wonderful site https://www.mygoodhabits.com/ and its helped me.
    He would let you join without paying anything, have you no money, or just for $29.95 for three months, or $14.95 for one. That’s American dollars. He has a section called Emotional Healing where he shares a technique, and also has people who have followed the technique or he helps to follow it. It helped me incredibly finding out how I was disassociating from feelings that I never had been allowed to express in my youth, and those feelings were trying to give me guidance. You know, just a different way than the norm. But the discomfort when the feelings would reemerge when I needed them, when everything came into play, in how to deal with this “society,” with how to actually say anything in it (which you have gone into quite fully regarding knowing how to deal with what you describe). It might be like whatever you went to the psychiatrist for just needed a bit more space to NOT fit into society, or what another part of the mind controlled by fear thought was how things should be.

    We become scared of stuff that would help us, because of how it had been accepted, and the electric shock to our system when the whole arena of memories kicks in can be quite severe.

    I really don’t think you’re going to go into another psychosis, you seem too grounded for that, I think you will find that quiet inner voice, and even though it seems like there’s some great loss to stop responding to everything that’s what we’re supposed to believe life is about, it wouldn’t at all be a loss, and the peace there is resonant gentle and soothing instead of it being a loss or that it’s scary.

    I kept on getting “psychotic” when I drank too much coffee, realized that, but then somehow had a switch that I would start with too much coffee again (also because the “psychosis,” was expressing something of what I was trying to push away, and that needed to be expressed). That was when I really needed to just stop disassociating from feelings I had a reflex to push to the side, because they never had been accepted, it was like there was suddenly a blank space. I just hadn’t learned to trust those feelings, to let go like that. And it really is like what Jesus taught, because you just let go to something more gentle. And THAT was what balanced me out, NOT just trying to discipline myself to not drink coffee, because it wasn’t really about that, it was about seeing that there was something else, that I didn’t have to push those thoughts away.

    And so, it could just be that when you allow those feelings, even letting go of thinking you need to respond to the psychiatrist etc. that that’s what it’s about, not whether you need the drugs to not have whatever it’s called because of the withdrawal.

    And it sounds like the psychiatrist might be gaslighting you. There also are pill splitters, would you want to reduce your dose, and he wouldn’t find out. There would be nothing wrong with not telling him, even lying would he ask. It might be much more just a stage of relaxing to get off of the drugs than what you’re scared of. But above everything I would suggest you give yourself the time for some peace of your own, whatever calms you down. Without any guilt. When you get really upset don’t feel like you have to respond to the system at all, they only use that against you anyhow.

    Does this help to think that really the fear of getting off the drugs has to do with how it might bring up feelings you’re used to pushing away, and it’s more about accepting those feelings, to just feel them (whether they are good or bad), and then you can process them, and also let go of them? Everyone has this from their past, whether it’s family or society, that they weren’t allowed to express certain things, and so push those feeling to the side. And it could just be allowing yourself the space to just go into a space where you’re not trying to rationalize, but just not push the involuntary part that feelings move through away, like mindfulness or meditation. But it’s maybe more a conscious way of responding to reflexes at the moment…..

    I’m writing quite hurried right now, and will look back with more “time.” Or at least when I don’t feel so rushed with a number of things going on…..

  • Yes, I think we all think that, why has God done X, Y and Z to us, but maybe that’s the illusion. Maybe we’re more in control, and when we practice what I found in A Course in Miracles to help, that it’s really just shifting to something else that was there the whole time, and we were in control, and that’s how we learn.

    It’s really just a friendship with Jesus, understanding what he went through rather than making an object out of him, which is what I think the Catholic Church does too much, and I don’t think that’s completely fair to him. I can not agree with their stance on homosexuality, for example, or a list of other things in that category. There is a wonderful lady who was, and probably still is, Catholic her whole life. She had miracles start to happen after she visited Fatima, an itching in her fingers that when she touched people miracles would happen. People from all over the world came to see her, she was on Television, and yet the Catholic Church didn’t even acknowledge what was happening or let her give a healing get together in their church.Here is a wonderful blog her friend and facilitator has written, he passed away a few years ago http://leaholof.blogspot.com/ The Catholics left this nasty superstitious denial of her abilities https://www.catholicdoors.com/isit/isit05.htm I think Leaholof has retired now, though.

    I’m just trying to show how much there is of healing, and of stuff that the institutions as they are, and the powers that be, deny. And when a person has been forced to conform to all of that, and they start to wake up finding themselves in no man’s land, the psychiatric system would often sooner find them “psychotic,” then even have interest in finding out what’s truly going on, and what that has to do with an innate beautiful part of being human that’s trying to express itself.

    Psychiatry might say that Jesus had any of a number of things wrong with him. And would he try to express how difficult his life was, because of his nature, because of how he was persecuted, because miracles happened around him and people either denied it or wanted to exploit him mostly; I really don’t think psychiatry would understand hardly any of that. I don’t think he needed anti-depressants for example. And I don’t think he needed to be on dopamine antagonists because he thought he talked to God. And because he could sooth the minds and heal many of the people psychiatry says it has the right to treat, they would further more have problems with him.

  • I’m still puzzling about this, how to have made such a statement and to be clear about it, while changing the whole concept of Jesus. If one believes in reincarnation, which isn’t linear no one reincarnates in a body: there would be no reason to reincarnate were there not a multiplicity going on, was it instead linear. That’s like saying you can build a house without looking for the materials, in this case what gives time meaning, but if one believes in reincarnation then during the time Jesus had his short tragic life, he did see me, although I was a woman then, and there’s still a resonance there transcending the limitations of “THAT” time. That also alleviates Jesus of having to be an institution. He can simply be human.

    And why isn’t this allowed?

    There IS a whole other dimension to what it is to be human, and that’s so innate to what it is to be human that it doesn’t really allow people to be anything else, doesn’t make them one of the assembly of parts that go to make up what’s made out to be necessary to safeguard a territory (physical or mental); you can’t limit yourself to such a territory to begin with, you would never find the parts for the house, the house beyond time, the one that gives you space for life to have meaning.

    Why you have a soul.

    ALL of the non-reality-based stuff going on with “psychosis,” taps into that innate part of being human. When it tries to depict something the mind hasn’t quite grasped, whether it’s memories the conscious mind doesn’t know is effecting it emerging in supposedly non real scenarios trying to make a safe connection to realizing the memory, or the spiritual concepts that come out of transcending such trauma actually showing what’s real about life rather than defending something you could never be, or the imaginative insights that have to come in from the edge of the Universe or what’s called left field, or simply the need to dis-inhibit oneself beyond silly pretentious rules everyone follows just because everyone does (for their ego) rather than they truly make any sense, or instincts trying to emerge giving guidance for life involving everything I’ve already listed… all of that goes on with “psychosis.” There isn’t a time when I got “psychotic,” that something didn’t happen that might be called impossible, or metaphysical, a miracle, or supernatural, exactly because my lack of worldly “reason,” allowed it. Had I been sane it wouldn’t have had the legroom.

    There IS a whole other part of being human, so human that it’s not going to adapt to such limitations as “sanity” says it needs. And what’s really insane is trying to be that, something that can survive in such limitations. Because you’re making yourself out to be something impossible, and you’re not. What’s impossible is that such limitations exist, what’s called impossible: non-reality-based.

    There’s no need to be scared of it, just because if you stop pushing it away it will make sense.

  • Just to summarize this post.

    When a person hasn’t been given the environment to get in touch with their own instincts, their own feelings, their own insights especially when they were supposed to see thing differently, and often were forced to not express themselves or met with derision and chastising along with other methods of traumatizing someone into not expressing themselves; when those feelings come back up, which they are meant to, then it has already become a conditioned reflex to push them away. And the real discomfort from the feelings come from that, not from the feelings themselves. This can be the same way with feelings in general that we don’t like and want to go away. Most of the discomfort could be from not feelings those feelings. Much, and too much of our whole society also is based on pushing those feelings away, the whole economic, consumer oriented and social setup, as well as what’s even called entertainment seems to often mostly be to give means for people to have a way to push those feelings to the side. And then there’s the anger, the depression and the feelings of inadequacy when we don’t have the means to push those feelings, feelings we need to feel, to the side. It could just be the feeling not to have to take sides. A more quite mindset.
    And it’s really quite a simple thing to help a person realize when they are doing this, rather than to strengthen whatever image they are supposed to have of themselves, and what’s running them. Simple anxiety for example, is treated in a way as if one should get rid of it, and yet what happens when you just allow yourself to feel it without responding to it? What if when you allow yourself to process it that it then goes away?
    I think there are a whole array of inner voices that are meant to give guidance that can help us would we just allow ourselves the space to feel stuff we think we need to push to the side. And there’s no loss in not being part of a world that would make us out to be crazy would we not push those insights to the side. There’s lots of stuff that happens, amazing stuff that otherwise wouldn’t be allowed to, would we expect life to be sane.

  • Does what psychiatry says psychosis is have much to do with it? Funny, you know someone that’s actually, I don’t know, learned a language, and can speak it with the natives, or has learned to swim, or has been to a country or a city and knows the layout, the map; it gets awfully strange when those people (the ones that have been psychotic, and namely the ones that have been through it and are over it, understand it) they have to depend on people that haven’t been to the country, that can’t speak the language, that can’t move around in it, that HAVEN’T been psychotic and recovered. You depend on those people to have anything you say be considered valid. That’s pretty strange. Added to this on is talking about something that you can’t just simply go to and map out, speak the language or move around in, because you have to have gone through it, otherwise it remains sort of invisible beyond what the psychiatrists make out of it, and then while really not having the experience to know what’s going on, they call you non-reality-based. And they really can’t know without having been there, and they’d have to really instead listen to those that have, it doesn’t at all work any other way.

    What is a paranoid schizophrenic supposed to be when the person labeling him is paranoid to see it for what allows it to heal, or exist at all to lead towards healing or insight or anything at all that’s worth mentioning (that it’s not a permanent chemical imbalance), and refuses to be realistic about this, and then dowses the person’s response with “medications” (said to be treating a chemical imbalance but scientifically causing one) which prevents them (the “patient”) from having a healthy enough brain to figure it out; thus not only preventing the psychiatrist from knowing what’s on, but the “patient” from figuring it out themselves!?!?!?!?!?

    I’ve had years, or lives trying to figure this out, to let it be and have enough room for it.

    Just my own “stuff.” I had found out that cigarettes, that when I started smoking, I’d end up in an “episode,” something I knew was non violent, but scared other people, and I knew that psychiatric drugs wouldn’t help. So I stopped smoking, but was quite shocked to see that I got more unsettled in an “episode,” and years went by, lots of social betrayal and attempts to exploit me while I wasn’t “psychotic,” which pretty much explained the “psychosis,” or the need to be in a place where people wouldn’t find me fit for their society. And then I noticed that I would have started drinking a copious amount of coffee when “psychotic,” and knew this, and stopped. But there was this weird switch going on that after awhile I’d just start drinking coffee again, and have an “episode.” I mean I had kept myself from drinking coffee, and would be fine, and then….. But then I ran into the teachings of how much we take on habits to disassociate from feelings, and in my case I found they were really just the feelings, the instincts, the insights, the instincts I had as a child but was never allowed to express, and when they would re-emerge needing leg room after awhile, the discomfort, the feelings of being oppressed would get me to start drinking too much coffee, too much to be “sane” anyhow. And it worked actually.

    It’s a language, when “psychotic” it’s your unconscious speaking to you however it can, symbolism, scenarios possibly called non reality based rather than fictional, which might still be what it is, which is a human need, given the amount of it in novels, myths etc., or however it expresses itself, because sometimes because of the dis-inhibition quite otherwise impossible things happen, even metaphysical or miraculous things. And so even when I could have been called non reality based in my thinking, this was beyond objective reality, because it involved my reflexes, and thus the future. The future not being something that’s EVER objective in such a fashion, and only exists in context to your reflexes. And so there are emotional wounds, and trauma, but the psychosis is REALLY just trying to show you that there is a language that can help you understand that, understand your reflexes and change your life, and so it’s not really so much about trauma, as about the miracle that it is to be human, and that we all can transcend, and even forgive trauma, that there’s a language teaching us that. Who we really are.

    I wouldn’t ever turn towards coffee like I did, I didn’t even know why when I had. But the simple knowledge – Charlie Goldsmith in his mygoodhabits.com site helped with this – that I had feelings I was pushing to the side, this helped me understand why I had such a reaction, so instead I give legroom to those feelings. They really before that were just sort of blank space. And it’s amazing how much control we really have over our lives when we simply switch to something a little bit more subtle, a little more detached, show a little non attachment, and just allow things, even when at first it felt uncomfortable.

    It’s really insane, there’s supposed to be all of this “guilt,” for behaving a certain way that doesn’t fit in with social norms. The most ridiculous rules, and the rub is that everyone (well not “everyone” just the mob) they believe that adhering to those rules gives them pride, and without that they think they’d fall apart, and so they wouldn’t even know what they’re thinking anymore, they become so programmed. Run around outside naked, and feel the air against your skin, and the sun, and you’re a maniac that gets arrested and drugged up, because of it. Oh, but the whole arsenal of social control tactics, all the way to torture methods and how to blow up all human life on the planet at least 20 times with nuclear weapons to make sure the enemy is dead, this is all highly funded. EXTREMELY frustrating. And then there’s all of this privilege to be violent, to have a whole policing system when you obey the rules, as if that works to create a society. All of it was so confusing to me, that a completely “non reality based” voice had to turn me away from who knows what, like someone so confused they don’t end up being hit by a car for want of not seeing what they are doing, or where they are going. That I would believe ANY of it makes any sense, or is a means to any end at all.

    An African Violet had just blossomed, the color magenta that’s actually not in our color spectrum https://www.biotele.com/magenta.html our mind fills it in. Whether it was the color of the violet or the blossoming, but the MOMENT I saw it I heard a voice: “SHUTUP we’re praying,” and it was so apparent, like a spring that had been let lose, that I argued with it. But it did get me to change course, and even a physical healing took place, something I’m still getting to know, because you can feel the difference of letting yourself get riled up or letting go, of actually forgiving, not buying into guilt. But I argued with the voice, thought it was Jesus, told him that he might have stayed around a bit longer, since he said that the flowers that are thrown on the compost heap to be burned are more splendid than Solomon’s robe, and yet we are worth more than that. Making such a remark when one sees a beautiful flower. He had friends in the Mediterranean he could have gone to visit rather than sticking around with the end we all know was the result. And who’s to say he doesn’t agree with me, since that’s PAST history. And he’s been with me at a level of intimacy I think that gave him another place to surrender to, but that’s all psychotic. Crazy. How dare I say such things. A voice popping out of nowhere because I saw a flower.

    I don’t know, psychosis, fiction, imagination. Why do we have fiction? I had gone to a miracle crusade, years ago, with someone who took me there that I didn’t know was so paranoid. Since has become a social worker, anyone surprised? And during the “crusade” I found myself, my mind placed me that is, in a movie where there’s love making going on at the end of the scene. How does this happen that after seeing a movie you end up inside of it, which I think is the idea the whole time upon watching it, a place to give subjunctive place, to gain perspective, to go beyond your limitations, physical or conceptual. AT first it was just someone that ends up as a ghost later on getting the other person not to be so serious. Something I’ve found out since, being that with creativity you have to, you can’t keep at something without letting it go, and then it speaks for itself. Going through my day I would find whatever I’d been working on take a new turn. Working on a musical composition a light would go on in my head, just like the voice, and I’d hear the music take a new turn, but that was when I’d stopped trying to do anything consciously. I might be making good in the kitchen. So here I am, with what I feel is Jesus trying to make love to me, and I didn’t know you can’t just tell another person that, and made the mistake of telling someone who then called up my father trying to convince him I was going crazy because I was talking about making love to Jesus. Mind you this same person (now a social worker) bragged about coming down to the living room of where she was staying in college, and being greeted with a whole assortment of guys who she says she had all made dates with, not caring the amount, but no, one can’t talk about anything as decent as Jesus making love to you.

    Years pass, I had to get away from that person and her “spiritualist,” channeling friends, and turned to a few true healers, got to know that better, studied A Course in Miracles a lot at times, and then actually had the new miracle, thanks to his voice, and found that no that wasn’t crazy at all from the beginning of back then, that perhaps Jesus really DID need a place he could go and simply surrender and completely be himself, and that was part of the miracle. REALLY! Because I had had a whole shift, physical healing, but then had to actually look at how it happened, that it was me taking a turn away from responding to frustration, and then, the “physical problem” slightly coming back, I had to surrender to everything that I thought would happen if I wasn’t “vigilant” in warding away what would happen if I wasn’t, and the physical problem went away, because I wasn’t trying to defend myself from it. Instead surrendering, and even then finding I could give Jesus a place to surrender to….

    And I wonder if this is crazy enough, to talk about being put inside a movie (what actually is imagination or fiction, or why do we have movies, and what’s acting), to hear a voice (and no I didn’t read it in the bible or even A Course in Miracles) and have it have meaning rather than it’s a hallucination, and at that a really earthy voice from someone that is supposed to be a holy icon, and physical healing, and everything beyond formalism (I’m male by the way, not that I was during the time Jesus was on the earth, I understand, and he had seen me then too)….

    But this changes everything, when the space to give legroom to emotions turns into a whole other kind of healing, something that’s been suppressed when it doesn’t follow social constructs of control, when it doesn’t feed those controlling the economic system, when it doesn’t give authority to those worshiping what they can control of the physical and try to indoctrinate people to be fearful of anything else a bit less tangible to their controls. Giving a “psychotic” person space to know what their mind is trying to express might create such havoc for “society,” that it’s basic tenets might have to be questioned, is why whoever has been through it, which is the only way one can find out by listening to them, that it’s made out to be something else by those that can lock you up and force drug you!?

    It might just be “crazy” like the rest of life, was anyone paying any attention at all to it. They might notice it’s not quite following their rules.

    JESUS!

    CHRIST!

    Thank God it’s not following their rules.

  • Here’s an article, listing how many Native Americans are killed by the police, and most of the cases involve “wellness checks”

    https://inthesetimes.com/features/native_american_police_killings_native_lives_matter.html

    And sadly, there’s absolutely no talk about how treatment with psychiatric drugs cause, after an initial period where “symptoms” are suppressed, more relapsing, more disability, loss of life expectancy, and than I think one can add paranoia against someone expressing that such treatment doesn’t work, with then the erroneous idea as if more of it is needed and should be forced, or we’re all in danger.

  • This is of course a very serious question. Perhaps the most important thing is that when a person has been given the right to feel suicidal, and been allowed to spill out their life: to talk about why, to experience another person actually listening, that does the most to make them feel as if there’s reception somewhere for their feelings, rather than nowhere. And then they can feel how they feel without believing they need to commit suicide to escape from those feelings, or do other destructive things to themselves. I don’t know what asking a person how they would commit suicide would amount to exactly, whether that would actually help them spill their guts, unless that actually involves allowing the person to express how desperate, and/or abandoned they feel, or hopeless; and that then they find a place that their feelings are accepted; but that depends on what’s behind the question, not the question in itself. If a person would go so far as to have had such thoughts, and then share them is the other person asking them how they would do such a thing capable of actually having empathy with what kind of desperation, what kind of hopelessness, what kind of abandonment would lead a person to start entertaining such strategies. And would the person asking the question be able to give someone the space to feel they could freely explore and express what happened in their life, or what’s happening in their life, or what they are scared might happen in their life to lead to it? Would they even be able to fathom there are very legitimate reasons that when a person is allowed and given the legroom to express them makes them feel less abandoned? They very tone of someone’s voice asking such questions could lead to the person answering feelings there’s reception or not, even thought the person asking the questions thinks he or she can hide their thoughts. And I also wonder whether that’s in reality the best addendum to; “are you suicidal.” It’s sounds like it could be rather clinical objective and cold. And might add up to more cold responses, such as lies about drugs that are made out to help according to information that’s highly tainted if not outright lies. Or promoting answers that the person who has the feelings of desperation already has experienced as not working, rather than truly being empathetic beyond thinking one knows the answers.

    I have to add another personal story here, that’s quite bizarre. When I as having difficulty in my life, and I think this was before I ever was diagnosed (thirty years or so ago), I just was having difficulty, and quite despondent. It’s a long story. It actually involves psychic senses, there was something (someone) I knew would come into my life, out of nowhere, and it didn’t end up being what I thought it would be; and then I got involved with the whole plethora of nonsense behind the techniques of being spiritual (or not spiritual by trying to exploit it) that I had been taught. I was obsessed with trying to find out why this person came into my life, particularly what it had to do with past lifetimes. And before that a very accurate psychic about petty future events no one needs to know could supply such information, but he had become too exploitative of me so I had been forced to get away from him; but there I was still thinking I needed to know things I didn’t, and would sit on my parents porch smoking and drinking coffee the whole night, quite angry determined to know this secret information. And there was all sorts of other social betrayal going on, especially with organizations making themselves out to be spiritual. Anyhow. Finding myself doing stuff out of frustration that I knew wasn’t good for me (no I didn’t really think that smoking the whole night and drinking coffee was good for me) I wondered where to turn, and I thought about calling a suicide line, actually telling them I WASN’T suicidal, but that I was concerned because I was doing things I knew were unhealthy. NOT a good place to turn. They talked to me quite a bit, even listening to the whole scenario of stuff that could be called psychotic, but of course with no ability to relate to what it represented in reality; no real ability to relate to what was going on with me as emotional truth that was seeking development so I could understand what it represented, how maybe fears had gotten tangled up with my reflexes and perceptions, and if understood could change my reflexes and my future, or maybe even the understanding of “psychosis,” in general. Then they invited me to come to talk go them, and I mistakenly did that. One of the most bizarre scenes in my life. In ending up upstairs somewhere, in what seemed to be some kind of tower, and trying to talk to someone the phone kept ringing connecting people up to the wrong number, which I wondered whether it was some metaphysical warning going on (how much stuff that didn’t belong but that rang in their mind concerning indoctrination would they not see was a mis-connection while they were judging me?), and of course the whole conversation added up to nothing much, or not more than they were pretty much telling me they were concerned about me and wanted me committed; but when I told them I had a sort of therapist, they called her, and she told then I was OK, that I lived with my parents, that I had support or so, that it wasn’t necessary to commit me. That was just a therapist my mother had been paying for me to talk to about my dreams, mostly. But they dropped it. Basically my life could have ended there, had I been committed, as vulnerable as I was, just because I thought they might actually have helpful input.

    AGAIN a whole bizarre thing involving negating what’s really going on, even if it’s physical involving substance one is imbibing. There wasn’t ONE mention of whether drinking coffee the whole night might be causing me to get paranoid. Instead, there was effort in seeing whether committing me would help, where I would have been inflicted with more substances messing up my mind, and end up not being able to chose myself regarding would I imbibe or not anymore, NOR to be given any true information so informed consent was going on, but actually did I KNOW the truth about psychiatric drugs, would I express that, that would be seen as a danger like in any fascist regime or fundamentalism like in religion when someone speaks against their ideology.

    I somehow got out of there, and actually called back there, and a really bizarre woman, to whom I had mentioned I wrote poetry, with a voice sounding like it was stuck on some pre-fabricated synthetic intelligence channel, with appropriate sing-song inflection and intonation to sound concerned about effect or pretense rather than truth – sort of like the butterflies, flowers, happy people smiling at each other lilting happily through life you see in drug commercials, or for the latest new and improved flavor in junk foods – she actually tried to convince me that the “medications” would help me write poetry, and that she was “concerned’ about that.

    Just like the Messiah of Handel on Lithium, or anti-psychotics they “know” would be an improvement. Why would that be?

    The local asylum out fit here, called “Pine Rest,” of all things, which makes me wonder whether that’s more appropriate for a mortuary, since it talks of “rest,” as in put to death and bury that annoying part of yourself society doesn’t give you easy points for giving legroom, they actually had on television paintings of Van Gogh, and music of Beethoven, and said they both had mental illnesses, and their lives would have been improved with “medications.”

    And they didn’t even mention that they must have built a time machine to accomplish and prove that.

    I didn’t even call them up and ask them about their time machine.…

    “How is your time machine doing? I want to meet Beethoven and Van Gogh!”

    Miracles happen…

  • 30-Watt lightbulb this story isn’t even unusual, in fact when closely looked at, there are elements of psychiatric authorities or concerned citizens displaying this kind of corruption and paranoia in most if not all cases involving incarceration, diagnosis etc. All because they think there’s some danger, and are so sure of it that they feel free to lie, distort and manipulate through strategical untruths what’s going on. All the way from the basis of whether they are dealing with a chemical imbalance to a person’s behavior to begin with.

    I had a friend, who since had committed suicide 12 years ago, who was committed to an asylum, with such lies that when I passed by the whole chase scene, and the police were at her house, and if I simply greeted her (she was outside on her steps) while her “friends” were “informing” the police about stuff, that a police officer told me if I didn’t move on I would be arrested. When I asked why, he said I would be arrested for disrupting an investigation. So, I went home and called non emergency dispatch to tell them that her “friends” had trespassed into her house to call her case manager, after scaring her so badly that she had run away from them and her house. Of all things non emergency dispatch told me that she had been taking her clothes off in public. I had been with her when her friends scared her, and after she took off, at first trying to get away on my bike which was locked and clamping down on the pedals that wouldn’t move being locked with such fright that she ripped her Achilles tendon, and then she had run off; the first thing that one of her “friends” said to me was: “she’s running around naked.” Afterwards, I found out that what dispatch told me, and what her friend determined she was doing, that that wasn’t going on at all, and hadn’t been. She hadn’t been taking her clothes off, and neither had she been running around naked. But And if I simply was around without such paranoia I was interfering with an “investigation.”

    OK!

    Well, and then her Achilles tendon having been ripped, and needing attention, which expressed itself by there being swelling up to her knee while she was in the asylum, and that not being looked at although she was in a wheel chair consequently (apart from for fun that she in the asylum allowed visitors to scoot around in wheel chairs that were just sitting there not being used, and then the next time we visited the workers being panicked that anyone might be using them and had been told to be wary), no one cared to really find out what kind of a physical wound she had which was why she was in a wheel chair, and by the time she got out her Achilles tendon was ruined for life, and she couldn’t walk around without that disability.

    And there are really vulnerable people that already have been made terrified of behaviors they don’t understand themselves, behavior that in contrast to the paranoia against them are completely non violent, and yet they end up thinking that such paranoia is logical, or they just give up even trying to refute any of the lies, as little as one can get people to question the ideology of a fascist system.

    I’m glad you somehow got out of it. Being in an asylum because you wanted to kill a cat you don’t own, and then not getting the treatment you needed because of an infection, that’s something they might cover up as well, if you hadn’t survived.

    I’ve had people trying to say that my thoughts were non reality based, while they made up more stuff about me that was completely not reality based, nor would they question it, the same as any officiated paranoia. There was one yoga teacher with parks and recreation who was also a social worker, and I actually heard a voice tell me to just stay away from her, and not ask questions, although I was really just interested in yoga. I had noticed how alarmist she might respond if I simply asked any question like anyone might, so I just ignored it, which I shouldn’t have. She thought I was in love with her (I’m gay, she couldn’t do anything for me, plus I found her repulsive and coy, and was quite a bit amused at how pretentious she was, and how she was trying to create following with such artifice). I couldn’t really make out what was going on, and was for a couple of days having thoughts that might be called “psychotic,” although I already saw after two days they weren’t what I thought, and since I completely understand the symbolism. But because I was “psychotic,” she could make me out to be someone that might get violent, and she got a restraining order, and when I simply wanted to correct the whole list of whatever it was (lies, paranoia, incorrect assumption) that amount to non reality based paranoias, she actually, after propping herself up in her chair and taking on the kind of sing song voice people take on trying to convince you they have the answer, said to the judge:
    “I know, I know, he doesn’t hear voices, he sees things that aren’t there, it’s non reality based.”

    After I had heard a voice telling me to just completely stay away from her. And to tell you the truth, I didn’t really have it through that people like that existed, and how completely totally indoctrinated and brainwashed they can be.

    If I went out the same door everyone else did, which I ended up usually doing all myself because everyone else had left. I had to put the clothes over my jogging outfit back on, and her yoga didn’t really calm me down and had to rest a bit, so I most of the time was the last person out the door when she and everyone else had left. But if I ever went out the same door anywhere near the time she did, even though I didn’t nothing but go straight to my bike and leave, then I was following her to her car. And mind you, she would always in a coy voice wish me a good night. I didn’t know she had friends walking her to her car because she thought I was in love with her, which I wasn’t.

    And there’s a whole list of other presumptions. And lies.

    I had mentioned that her ghetto blaster that she played music on from a CD had one speaker that was giving out static, and she pulled a face as if to denigrate parks and recreation saying it was just for them, and she didn’t want to buy a new one. That turned into me supposedly saying I didn’t like her music (I had never said anything about whatever music she played). She had also mentioned while talking to someone else while I was slowly getting my stuff together to leave, that she had bought a bunch of chocolate, and I had recently found out that putting coco powder in your oatmeal gives you the same resonant buzz as chocolate without the sugar, and when I tried to mention this to her having overheard something she said, she tried to make out I was mad at her for eating too much sugar, and also said she didn’t know I paid such attention to what she said (apparently she was supposed to watch out with sugar) and then tried to make out that because I listened “intently” to what she was saying that I was in love with her. In all honestly I was quite a bit amused, like when you’re reading a story and there’s a really bizarre pretentious character that lives their life quite different that yours, and you would read the description. It WASN’T because I was in love with her at all.

    And then she started groaning right in front of me (I had to sit in the front of the class because I didn’t wear my glasses to do yoga, so otherwise couldn’t see) about how she had just had to have vaccine shots because of her job in a hospital. I asked her if she was a nurse, she told me she was a social worker, and then I simply asked whether vaccines really helped as much as they say they do. And mind you, unbeknownst to me, she was getting herself all riled up about stuff that wasn’t going on at all, which I don’t think is good for anyone’s immune system. And she had started the conversation talking to someone on my other side, right through me, and then said I rudely started taking part in a conversation, as if again I’m not supposed to have ears, or even being aware of what she’s going on about means I have dangerous desires to intrude into her life. I couldn’t simply say you have to look at the other side of the argument in a resonant calm tone, or she got all spiked and prickled and annoyed like the spring on a mouse trap had sprung and said: “those who aren’t taking vaccines are making the rest of us sick,” after she said she wasn’t going to have a whole conversation about it. And then I supposedly said that all vaccines were bad, which I hadn’t said, I had mentioned some evidence against vaccines that I had been e-mailed to a parks and recreation person, because I wasn’t taking yoga classes to be told I have to be a consumer of drug company methods, and this is when I mentioned the ghetto blaster where upon they bought her a new one, themselves, because I brought it up, and they said maybe she was scared to ask for on. And I still don’t have any determined stand point one way or the other concerning vaccines, but I look at the other side of it.

    And mind you, if I paid attention one way I had devious desires for her, but then she also mentioned that I didn’t do anything she said, during class, which wasn’t true. During one class I had a back ache and couldn’t to maybe 20 percent of the poses, so I didn’t do them, instead watched her to see how they were done, this turned into me supposedly having my head resting on the wrist articulated on my upper arm, and watching her 80 percent of the class.

    I also got during that time bad eczema, and couldn’t ride my bike to class because the whether was getting colder and I’d have to wear gloves and my hands would sweat which was like torture to the skin because of the eczema, but might take the bus, which I couldn’t because the bike rack was full (I did ride my bike the half mile or so to the bus stop), when I didn’t show up for class SHE ACTUALLY said that I was resentful that there was a disagreement about vaccines, so I didn’t come to class. So, I actually couldn’t not be in class, and couldn’t be in class, and her assumptions could be magical telepathic insights rather than reality based, because she had to again make out that there was something going on which wasn’t going on, all to sooth her brain washing. I don’t know HOW I didn’t go to class because I had resentments, when having tried to get to class I couldn’t get there. Did I have some supernatural control over whether the bike rack was full, and did those bikes materialize out of nowhere, or the whole bus or what? I meant that’s pretty amazing powers on my part. If I WAS resentful, and that’s not why I showed up, I would have had to be able to manifest all of that to express such resentments.

    And that’s just some of it. I could go on and on and on.

    And her whole report read like stuff highschool girls would make up about someone they thought was weird, and this from a social worker. She actually said that I was “creeping” them out. I was just calmly getting ready to leave, and consequently doing that with no interest in her whatsoever but a yoga teacher.

    In fact the stuff that they called psychotic was exactly expressing that. I have a spirit friend who was Mozart’s mother, and who had a really bad childhood, given HER mother. And then Mozart’s mother’s father had lost everything at one point. I somehow, started picking up that stuff like that was going on given investments, and when you invest in the wrong stuff you can lose everything (reality even);while at this time I didn’t know all of the above mentioned extreme paranoia was going on (was being invested in), something so extreme I was disassociating from it, unfortunately. And the whole Hollywood like chase scene that was going on all fired by adrenaline as if there was some imminent danger that really wasn’t there at all. And this or that resonance from another time made me think something symbolic was going on involving Hollywood, and I could go into it more in detail, but it doesn’t matter because it’s subjunctive and could be any of who knows what kind of stuff dreams are made out of, something more objective than anything tangible in the physical because it involves reflexes and determines the future.

    Anyhow, I went on about this here, also

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/08/blaming-mentally-ill-is-hate-speech/#comment-159669

    What did I make up?

    Back then, what I referred to there was stuff going on like there is now, only it wasn’t the drug companies, it was the Catholic Church taking over the economic system, invading and controlling government, people’s lives. There were harmonics of that going on, and I couldn’t differentiate, if there was any necessary difference to see, you see.

    And there was even a sense of they know psychically what’s going on, and try to scare you, which is what I thought was going on, that the whole media machinery (Hollywood) was doing that, and I could go into stuff Hollywood is lying about or the image games they play, and actual actors coming into my life because I had talked about memories of being the dancer whose name this ID on this site carries, and it’s a big topic for actors, quite a few having played “mentally ill” people while someone actually have gone through it wouldn’t be hired by Hollywood, which already brings out exploitation.

    There was a violin maker, during that time when the Catholic Church was taking over, named Guarneri Del Gesu. And he would go to a Tavern where he heard stories about the stuff going on. And there was during this time a Goodwill store that I went to where spirit seemed to be telling me that a lady working there had also been the one at the Tavern back then, the one handing out drinks and such, possibly the owner. And she ALSO had started acting paranoid, anyhow, it gets complicated because the extremely grim lady who worked at a Goodwill store… and I had seen her son at one point there, and it looked like he was working on the candy machine outside of the yoga studio; and then the male bathroom was locked. I had to use the other bathroom, and that had become symbolic enough.

    And so I thought that the Goodwill lady, and the lady in the Tavern, that her son who I had seen was somehow connected with Hollywood trying to intimidate me that they had connections, and somehow could get into the workings in my life (could get one of their agents into the candy machine outside of the yoga studio), and I was supposed to be intimidated. Someone from Parks and Recreation actually suggested to call the administration of the school that the class was in (it was at night time when no one was in that school), but I actually know that when there’s such stuff going on that marketing agents would try to get as much going on (prattle blither and chatter) in talk about it, just to turn the whole thing around using the gossip for a marketing scheme for whatever, and suppressing the incomfortable truth. More chase scenes, more chatter about some evil, more magnifying social phobias that people are left allowed to go on about rather than about being human, so I tried to explain that to the man from Parks and Recreation who wasn’t intelligent enough to know what I was talking about, and then later mentioned that he didn’t know what I was talking about at all, which he said to others evaluating me rather than being honest enough towards me that I might have explained it to begin with. I would have been happy to hear there wasn’t such a spooky thing going on as a brainwashing organization trying to intimidate me that they could get an agent to being doing stuff to the candy machine outside the yoga studio, while the male bathroom was locked (which was supposed to have a symbolic meaning to it); which I figured out two days later (without calling others who would have thought I was crazy), but then it was too late. And it brought on enough paranoia to get me away from all of it, actually. And you would think both sides would know better, people from Goodwill, or a yoga teacher, especially a yoga teacher.

    I was trying to make a point about investing in such stuff because I was wondering whether that yoga teacher had been the father of my spirit friend (who made bad investments and lost everything), only to realize she was more like the mother, and in trying to communicate any of that it was quite misinterpreted as well. Even like investing in the drug companies (psychiatric drugs) to make a bunch of money, if you would, you’ve lost the truth, and that’s not going to change for it either. Beyond that inciting fear in such a way that intimidation is more important than the truth, and if you win then again you’ve lost.

    I don’t have eczema anymore, by the way, and I don’t end up drinking so much coffee to try to escape away from feelings that I think cause me discomfort (which then end up manifesting like a dream state symbolically, and could be labeled as psychotic), feelings as a child I wasn’t encouraged to feel free to express, and that’s just basic intelligence, and spiritual; so I wouldn’t have this whole calvacade, this whole potpourri, this whole assortment of things I hadn’t sorted out.

    But no, I never was a dangerous schizophrenic at all, I think the dangerous paranoia lies quite rigidly denied on those making out there’s a danger that’s not there.

    But again coffee is a dopamine re-uptake inhibitor, like ADHD medications, and anti-psychotic drugs (for “schizophrenia”) are drugs blocking the dopamine from being able to do it’s work (which actually causes dopamine hyperactivity again because the body then makes more of it, said to be the cause of psychosis); and I don’t think that a re-uptake inhibitor and an anti-psychotic doing all of that messing around with dopamine is in any way going to fix things, let alone that the “science” reported about it all is highly untrue.

    And a lot of people never get a chance to sort any of this out, by some miracle I have.

  • Neesa, if you’re interested in spiritual (or metaphysical) healing, if you want to find real grounded energy in that genre, maybe you might try Charlie Goldsmith. He has had a show called The Healer where he somehow heals people, not to draw attention to himself, but because that’s possible, that there are people born with such a gift, and that should be acknowledged rather than not. He hopes that other people won’t have to go through what he went through, having such a gift. He doesn’t himself get any money for it, because early on in life, when he found he had such an ability, he decided to start his own companies so that he could heal people without asking for money. His gift is simply something that started happening, not something he decided to do; and then he talks about how the first response of people is “that’s been proven to be fraud,” and he jokes that’s the starting point (along with saying it’s pretty rough, while laughing about it), and then he wants to say, just give me a moment of your time and I’ll show otherwise, which he has, and you can see on his show. For a little bit of money you can watch it online several places, and I think it’s completely worthwhile. For ten dollars I bought it on prime video via Amazon, and can watch it anywhere with a computer access. I actually showed some of it to my “therapist” who absolutely loved it. He then also has a facebook site with many videos you can watch, and on many of his healing videos talks about emotional healing. And how in reality we try to push aside feelings, and the discomfort we feel, that we associate with the feeling, is actually us pushing them away. Because we weren’t allowed to feel them growing up, because they don’t fit with the concept of ourselves our ego has concocted, because because. And he talks bout how we take on habits to avoid those feelings, like junk food, like smoking, like all sorts of things, and yes, like Xanax and other psychiatric drugs.

    He also has a website called my good habits https://www.mygoodhabits.com/ also something he gets no money from, he only asks a little membership fee, if you can pay it but then also if you can’t you can request it for free, but he needs money to be able to run the website. He has other people come in there to give good advice, and the Internet site, along with all of the rest of stuff, like protection from hackers, costs money. There he talks more about his emotional healing techniques. He also has offered a free membership to that site at times for anyone to try it out, and did when the current pandemic had started, but you would have had to apply for that sometime in the month April, which would have lasted for a month. He has a big bulk mailing list whenever he does a live healing on facebook, and that he also pays for himself, mentioning that it’s 750 dollars a month.

    Charlie has helped me more than any therapist, because he simply helps you feel your feelings, he’s not offering some unrealistic escape through who knows what (analyses, drugs, some Utopian community more enlightened than the other, the right to be a victim etc.). And just accepting feelings, I thought, is what music is all about. THAT’S quite different than what so often goes on in a professional setting, where the teacher feels free to get sarcastic if they don’t like something, get really offended that someone doesn’t do things according to his or her ideology; and makes that ideology out to be more important than what music really is about, what it’s true worth comes from.

    When Charlie has metaphysically healed people, the responses are quite something, you hear things like: “What the bleeped-out,” then there’s a moment pause and another bleeped-out, or you hear: “that’s freaky, who are you,” or “that’s weird,” or “I’m just weirded out,” what you hear the most is: “that’s crazy,” Well, there you have it….. because something “non-reality-based” happened according to so many people.

    What helped me is becoming aware of what I did when I was disassociating from feelings that wouldn’t go away, no matter how much I had an unconscious reflex to just do whatever when push came to shove, and the momentum had brought them back. One of the things would be drinking way too much coffee, which did make me “psychotic,” although even then the scenarios in the “psychosis,” depicted emotional wounds that if I understood them I could let go of rather than keeping them tangled up in my reflexes, which AGAIN breaks down the idea of reality based or not, because if you can change your reflexes, you change your future, which is more objective than anything tangible to people’s idea of reality based or not. But allowing myself to feel those feelings I would have otherwise tried to push away, that gave perspective, even on whether the “psychosis,” was crazy or not.

    And now music really is meant to do that too. All the arts are. But that’s not how they are taught is it? They’re made out to be a commodity, a consumption. They’re quite often made out to be more something you do to avoid your feelings, and make yourself “feel” a certain way (like chocolate would, or cheese cake, or a cigarettes, or drugs or having more money etc.) But that’s not really feeling.

    People are scared of anything that happens by itself, like say: “psychosis.” Or beyond that imagination itself when it points out what people are trying to avoid seeing. What their feelings might tell them were they given the chance to.

  • Fiachra, I don’t think things are the way the might seem. Given this quote from review of his book.

    “Francis recognizes the vital role of proper pharmacologic treatment, emphasizing that the combination of medication, talk therapy, the practicing of coping skills as a way of life, and belief in something greater is what has enabled him to grow and thrive.”

    And this quote from his article above: “My trials with schizophrenia have taught me that my perceptions carry no resemblance to the item we refer to as reality.”

    Emotional reality IS reality, and in fact it’s the stuff of fantasy or imagination the same as fiction. Fiction, which also gives in a novel, for example, imagination or fantasy the space to depict interactions or communion that give perspective on life, and that’s more than anything “objective” could ever be. Without that being seen as real, it’s like saying you can make a violin without any tools to carve the wood. Your feelings, your instincts, your reflexes, your beliefs, all of what creates the images in our mind determining how we respond ARE what makes our life beyond anything you can pin down AT THAT MOMENT as being real or not real, because you can’t perceive the future. Nor do I believe it’s meant to have the limitations you get with “sanity,” with “statistical based norms,” or any of that belittling terminology that goes on with anyone that simply goes to that part of the mind that determines our reflexes, and allows it to speak. The SAD part is that when someone does that subconsciously, and aren’t able to themselves comprehend what that part of the mind is trying to say about reflexes, then instead of being greeted by people that have had such experiences, and do have such insight or at least believe that it’s possible, they are shut down by being told that it has nothing to do with “reality,” which we here again hear. And “medications” are nothing but a means to turn off the mind by giving it a chemical imbalance, and disabling it.

    “We are such stuff
    As dreams are made on, and our little life
    Is rounded with a sleep”

    https://www.sparknotes.com/shakespeare/tempest/quotes/page/5/

  • Although I honestly feel woefully inadequate to add to this profoundly scientific discourse, there’s something that might have been overlooked regarding Turpentine.

    You know the fictional character Peter Pan, I think. Well, if you take the sentence: “Peter Pan Tying,” you have a sort of misspelling of P Turpentine. Albeit with a slight Southern accent. And in keeping in sync with the scientific bend this discussion and the whole environment provoking this discussion has taken forth and has been taking forth for quite a long time, you might seriously look into whether there’s a pirate, possibly named Hook, that needs to be tied up, him being a sort of ring leader in the creation of chemical imbalances, probably a lot like the Arch Fiend referred to by many religious leaders. And thus God created: “Peter Pan Tying,” or P Turpentine.

    This might lead to a 12 step program for Schizophrenics who all would (and should) be required to acknowledge that they are powerless against the Hook fiends of chemical imbalance, but P Turpentine or Peter Pan Tying is their salvation along with neuroleptics and any combination or cocktail of other miraculous solvents resulting, which might be referred to as “The Lost Boys”…..

    OK I’m done…..

    I believe in fairies

  • I misspelled than as then here, sorry.

    “Strange, I haven’t read anywhere that when you work people as slaves, in sweatshops or exploit their lives and environment (introducing more toxins) that when they can’t work anymore due to illness or simply having enough of it, that they have less years left than (was misspelled then) when they were being exploited, and thus it’s more productive for them and healthier too to have slaves, maintain sweatshops and deny what economic exploitation does.”

  • Not “medicating” people with neuroleptics increases life expectancy as well as recovery. That’s also the case with whether you force someone to have their lively hood depend on working in a sweatshop, being a slave or living in an economically depressed zone because of corporate exploitation (greed). But then there’s loss of profits, right?

    Strange, I haven’t read anywhere that when you work people as slaves, in sweatshops or exploit their lives and environment (introducing more toxins) that when they can’t work anymore due to illness or simply having enough of it, that they have less years left then when they were being exploited, and thus it’s more productive for them and healthier too to have slaves, maintain sweatshops and deny what economic exploitation does.

    I wonder how many people listed as dying in un-medicated years had started to have serious health issues because of the “medications,” and took themselves of of them because of toxicity causing somatic disease, and so took themselves off of the “medications” to survive a bit longer, which of course isn’t looked at either, that when someone starts getting possibly life threatening side effects, and takes themselves off of the “medications” whether they lengthen their lives that way isn’t considered. Instead, do they stay on the “meds” then that’s added onto the years the treatment gave them the life threatening conditions and said to lengthen their lives, and do they lengthen their lives by getting away from what was killing them, that’s listed as what killed them, instead. Same as people that eventually found out that the “medications” weren’t helping them actually deal with life’s problems and didn’t afford them enough emotional freedom to express themselves, even though such dissent could cause the same problems as dissenting against any suppression. And then there are the people that can simply feel how the medications suppress their feelings and mute their responses, and cause debilitating side effects, people that really only needed help from those who don’t respond in a paranoid way to such “symptoms” but know how to work with them to create understanding and emotional growth, and even see such “symptoms” as welcome color in an otherwise bland conformist society.

    Which expands the whole delusion. Therapists that actually speak the truth about “medications” and thus go against the whole drug company funded “therapeutics” business, although they get better results, don’t usually fall under many insurance guidelines and aren’t hired or allowed to even speak the truths in formal businesses involving mental “health.” And nothing they do would be acknowledged if they don’t promote “medications,” and be said to cut off the lives of those they could be helping, despite all of the evidence to the contrary.

    And to simply speak about something called emotional awareness, and would someone, anyone simply somehow feel that this isn’t all quite right. Would they know people in the mental health system, have seen what goes on with “treatment” and have a healthy enough brain and enough emotional freedom to have healthy un-indoctrinated instincts and insights kick in as to what’s going on; none of that is allowed, and what does THAT say about emotional health in a field calling themselves mental health?

    If you’re not brainwashed, you’re supposedly psychotic?

  • Excuse me but I’m really not interested in curt ideas of how one can ONCE AGAIN label normal responses to trauma as something severe that we need to cope with (or battle against), and then have bettered our and everyone else’s lives, as if seeing it as being severe and something to get rid of some as sort of heavy undertaking we get points for, simply because we make it out to be severe. I lost track at how often people over react once they believe you’re crazy, and act like there’s as you put it “something seriously wrong,” when what’s really wrong is the ridiculous paranoia, the gossip, the fear mongering, the social ostracizing and the bullying and ridiculing. The very initial thing one goes in to the mental health system believing they are in some sort of grave danger (Trewlany’s favorite line in Harry Potter) isn’t what causes the “episodes” either, it’s the resistance against them, the resistance against seeing it as a normal response, and also then often a response to “medications.” The DSM is a highly politicized bunch of paranoia, full of social constructs that are quite illogical except that it goes along with society’s belief in compromises as magic. (verbose enough?)

    What kind of nonsense is this: “Heh buddy, you know there’s something serious going on.”

    “If you actually followed what correlates with recovery then you wouldn’t have to deal with the result of recycling into “episodes” that wouldn’t be there without the disabling substances that prevented understanding, and recovery, which in this case is simple understanding by allowing someone to go through a process, rather than creating stigma and paranoia against it. And if you haven’t gone through it without trying to prevent it, then you haven’t gone through it.”

  • “My progression from nonpsychotic to psychotic followed a pretty typical course, unfortunately, there was much hesitation in giving me such a “serious” label, when in the end the correct diagnosis saved my life. I come to accept my diagnosis because I want to move on and live my life, helping others, not accepting things like this lead to a life time of questions and anger which isn’t worth it in the end. As tough a diagnosis as schizoaffective disorder has been it has helped me heal and taught me how to help others.”

    “Not accepting things like this lead to a life time of questions and anger which isn’t worth it in the end.” “Things?” What does “things” refer to? There are a lot of “things” you get points for for accepting from society, but cause trouble when you don’t conform, and thus anger and questions.

    Not accepting that you’re taking on a disease label that in contrast to being proven to be biological isn’t although its “cure” has been proven to be, this leads to a “lifetime” of question and anger that isn’t worth it in the end? Why would that be?

    Going against a fascist system (taking away people’s right to dissent from treatment, taking away personal liberties, labeling them as dangerous when they aren’t etc.) can also cause a lifetime of anger and questions. In fact more questions not less.

    I’m quite sure that there are people, and evidence shows they are in the majority, that indeed take on a life time of questions and anger (and suppression) exactly BECAUSE the label isn’t something that addresses what’s going on with them, puts them in a position for extreme discrimination and abuse, some of which you have highlighted, although there’s quite a bit more going on, certainly with people who have never acquired the insight to even know what’s going on and remain disabled lab rats for an ideology that hasn’t been proven to be effective..

    People take all sorts of stimulants to disable their mind. Sugar, alcohol, nicotine, street drugs, sex, shopping, $$$$$$$, junk food, chocolate and then think it’s part of this hard task of being productive, moving on with their life, as you put it. Getting past that annoying part of themselves that gets in the way of the happiness they believe is fulfillment when they’ve become a “productive” part of “society.” In fact they work hard to maintain it. In fact society for the most part nurtures a mindset that is drugged by ideology and maintains it through disabling the mind through various means. Whatever fashion is prevalent in whatever society uses it to judge others. Whatever arbitrary fear based bonding method that the group feels safe following in order to gain self worth above others who for whatever reason don’t follow such doctrines.

    And what you’ve delineated as being a very typical course (from non psychotic to psychotic) also delineates for many people how they got lost in a system at a vulnerable time in their lives, and remain stuck in it, disabled, a mere shadow of who they truly are, disabled and coerced into believing it’s necessary. And to promote a “tough” diagnosis earlier on is exactly what causes such repression.

    Beyond that, the simple right a person should have to their own life, and if there are things that society has difficulty with, and they would rather adapt, and disabling the mind helps them that’s THEIR choice, given informed consent, which usually isn’t going on with psychiatric drugs. That’s YOUR choice, but to call it a disease, to condone it being labeled as something it’s never been proven to be while the “cure” scientifically causes exactly what the disease is said to be (a chemical imbalance), this while most people aren’t informed of that: To call the whole process you have been through, which at this point you say is your own choice, a disease that’s been cured still does not make it a disease that’s been cured. And to label it such is highly fraudulent and misleading. And to label a list of symptoms as something inherent to a disease, be happy they have been alleviated (because you are happier that way) when there ARE a whole array of people who learned to understand the “symptoms” : added to this in this system calling it a disease and touting a cure that causes they very definition of the disease that wasn’t there to begin with, those people aren’t allowed a voice… then this starts creating fear mongering against symptoms, and heralds when they’ve been alleviated rather than understood with a healthy mind.

    sorry…

  • I’m sorry, but this being very true how someone is treated in “psychosis,” but you’ve defined it again for something it isn’t.

    All the violence against one is horrible, but how can one solve this while investing in the very institutions which condone such violence and promote it, and quake it as necessary for “safety.”

    It’s very much the same when someone gets hooked on street drugs, whether it’s through peer pressure, or in this case being forced on them, often through the same lies as peer pressure about street drugs and their wonders. Only here someone is forced on disabling substance and then told how miraculous they are because they disable dissent, they disable the very spiritual-artistic-human expressions that if given just a little bit of legroom would be understood, but would defy the status quo, the common compromises, the whole mind set society holds onto as if their fear based norms created reality, which could never be the case.

    Defending this and supplying videos that erroneously call schizophrenia a brain disease, this is misrepresenting what psychosis is, this is adding to stigma for people that need to get away from being bombarded with such misrepresentations, this is exploiting something that’s not working to make more demands and push to the side the simple things that work, which is non “treatment” with the “medications” that correlate with the whole spike.

    If you actually followed what correlates with recovery then you wouldn’t have to deal with the result of recycling into “episodes” that wouldn’t be there without the disabling substances that prevented understanding, and recovery, which in this case is simple understanding by allowing someone to go through a process, rather than creating stigma and paranoia against it. And if you haven’t gone through it without trying to prevent it, then you haven’t gone through it.

    There is an immense riff here between the need to simply allow inexplicable things like find yourself somewhere you don’t know how you got there (what psychiatric drugs were involved if any that might have helped with the lack of a healthy brain to remember enough, or that might have caused the need to escape?); not being able to express dissent from anything to such a degree that you attach to something you don’t understand yourself (aliens); or having repressed parts of yourself that you don’t even know need expression and you have suddenly a shift from another wise labeled shy personality.

    I might sound a bit annoyed and even impatient but I have had it SO MANY TIMES, encountering someone that understandably has all of these problems and points them out so articulately, and with such justified aggression, but when I offer a simple solution that works, and isn’t part of demanding the system change which isn’t working, I end up on the receiving end because why? Because the war is so just you don’t have to see that you’re ending up promoting what caused it (the problem) for the sake of justice: it’s such a “holy” war.

    “Schizophrenia” is NOT a brain disease, and never has been truly proven to be, unless you include the “treatment” for it, which DOES prove to cause a brain disease. And those are TWO completely different things. When the standard “treatment” correlates with what’s defined as a disease (in fact “the” disease), and the original disease in itself doesn’t, you’re not talking about healing a disease, you’re talking about causing one that didn’t exist before.

    In the meantime there ARE creative spiritual and to use an overused work “enlightened” people who have gotten out of the system, and have turned this supposed disease around to enhance what it is to be human instead, allowing it to be as innate a part of being human as imagination or hope or the fact that “God” exists outside of everything people get in the way of their life making demands on it rather than letting go and seeing what happens. People who have stopped allowing the “left brained” activity with all of it’s game theory fears, and all of its adherence to beliefs that come from social compromises rather than truth, and labels EVERYTHING as being “crazy” that scares it along with the belief in miracles. There are people that have STOPPED allowing that relentless itinerant fussing to get in the way. But that’s just a completely different way and it doesn’t say I need your “hospitals” when I can’t deal with myself, and it doesn’t say I need your “medications” when I don’t understand my responses, and my brain won’t conform to fear based social norms; and when all of that has shown to be a cause rather than a cure, it DOESN’T go there for “healing” or “safety”!

    Because there IS another way, and there ARE other outlets, you just have to let go of the ones that don’t work…. EVEN though there seems to be some immense loss to. This whole idea that SOMETHING needs to be there for me because this problem is so HORRENDOUS! If you didn’t think in such a way about it you wouldn’t be causing it to burst out again trying to show you differently, you wouldn’t be causing it, because you would actually have insight rather than fear.

    And this is supposed to be really harsh right, because this doesn’t empathize with what hasn’t been shown to work, although everyone gets points for investing in it – what doesn’t work, because then there’s more need for it despite that it doesn’t work, because it’s supposed to although it doesn’t – and to not go along with this nonsense is labeled as cruel, inhuman and lacking in concern….

    It’s THAT convoluted.

    I’m not interested in other people misrepresenting what I’VE gone through and was MY experience NOT THEIRS, and then have to be believing it’s necessary for “help.”

    sorry….

    Prince Charming coming riding in with a hypodermic needle full of…….

    (!?)

    Or his “Castle”

    Or being “Faithful” to him