Showing 55 of 55 comments.
So what is it when one ceases to sleep and becomes manic ??
Yes, less is more in this case. 30mg of orotate is equal to 600mg carbonate. That’s what I read. That’s how we figured it. So I’m only taking 10mg of the orotate with the leftover carbonate. I am sleeping again which is nice but sad that it’s dependent on drugs. The doctor has ordered a blood test to check on our “experiment”. I have to wait a bit on the test as I cannot travel with my bad leg just yet.
During the recent time period when I had the insomnia real bad, I wanted to go through an arts festival and walked for hours. I am not suppose to do this with my legs being the way they are. But I was in the mood to pretend I was young again in spite of not sleeping. So the lithium does help me to not overdo it.
I am very curious to see what the lithium level will be.
Hi Julie. I do not receive a notification in my email when someone posts on MIA in my thread. So I’m sorry to be getting back to you so late. Thanks for the info on lithium orotate. Wanna hear something funny ?? I cut down my lithium carbonate over six months ago due to GI distress. We did it 10% per each 2-3 months. Like Peter Breggin says. Okay, so last month I start to have insomnia. So the doctor and I decide to put back an amount of lithium orotate to bring me back up to 600mg total; orotate and carbonate combined. So now I am starting to sleep better ten days into the “experiment”. And guess what !! The GI problem is back. The literature said it has no side effects like carbonate. Ha !!
Thank you for this article, Chandra Bozelko.
Dear Julie Greene,
Thanks so much for your reply. How do I help you stop irresponsible drugging ?? If it involves a computer, I can do it.
Yes, once a doctor said to me that I will have a few good years on lithium and then my kidneys will be shot. She actually said that to me.
I am saddened to learn that you too have sleeping problems.
I was sleeping until I lowered the lithium carbonate. It was causing severe GI distress. Perhaps I already mentioned this in this thread. Tonight I will put back lithium but in orotate form.
I am going to talk with my psychiatrist in three hours.
I can’t count the number of days that have been wasted due to pill side effects. I have no psychological issues as I’ve completed my “homework”. Instead of being free to connect spiritually with my day, I have to deal with drug affecting my clarity. Sedation does not appear to be a good long term solution.
I wish you the best and am happy to talk to you on here.
ps I had a girlfriend whose doctor gave her ambien for sleep because she had horrible nightmares on her own. She’d had a brain tumor removed and it left her having nightmares. Surely the ambien will not work forever ?? I wondered what alternatives there could have been for her.
PS Healing/Transcending the anger for parental abuse/neglect is connected to forgiveness/compassion for them being fallible human beings programmed by their own parents who suffered altered behavior due to WAR. At least this is the path/understanding that I took.
Wow. You generated a ton of responses. I see your photograph and as a photographer I’d like to say you look perfectly fine and lovely.
When I was incarcerated in a mental hospital for two years, the head shrink said I had a “defective personality” because I was in my inner child most of the time (due to reading John Bradshaw) and was always co dependently trying to become what the shrink wanted so I could escape the horrid place where I was experiencing permanent insomnia. (you can read my story in Personal Stories, scroll down to Little Porcupine Goes to the Psych Ward.
So no one figured out that I didn’t have a “defective personality” but rather needed to DEVELOP an ADULT PERSONA. I cobbled together an adult persona with which to navigate socially, from various people I was in contact with, as the years went by. But I still have a flexible personality as opposed to a rigid one.
Another item on the OP list was anger. And fear of abandonment.
My anger came originally from my parents totally ignoring me as a child. No affection. No birthdays. That is a valid anger to explore and transcend. The anger was finally calmed due to Tibetan Buddhist influences. A person is not defective or borderline personality because they are angry about invalidation as a child which makes being an adult difficult. Pills do not resolve anger.
As for abandonment, I had severe Separation Anxiety. This was due to having always been in a house with other people. The other people didn’t interact with me and were emotionally unavailable, but they were always there like the furniture. That was the childhood foundation program.
All these things are environmentally caused and therefore can be environmentally reprogrammed. Labels do not help. Pills do not help. We have a negative blueprint and must do opposite things like Develop Compassion for others, including ourself.
My sleep was deteriorating and my ability to deal with insomnia has been eroded with time. The pdoc gave me ativan for emergencies only. My definition of emergency widened each week. I only took five pills in two months but they caused even more insomnia. Finally, the pdoc said to take an extra navane. 1 mg
So I succeeded at lowering the other meds but now have increased another. No one suggested adding a lithium orotate pill to the lithium carbonate. I can’t get on with my life playing with pills.
I have no commitment to freeing myself from this unhappy marriage to psychiatry; til death do us part.
I just want to sleep.
This is really scary shit.
Charging a hundred bucks to disseminate information on psychiatric drug withdrawal does sound rather Capitalistic/opportunistic. The information should be in the public library where I found Dr. Peter Breggin’s book(s). He says one must cut back the drug by 10% every three months. I tell this to people for free on http://www.mentalhealthforum.net
So far I’ve come down from 600mg lithium to 450mg and have cut down buspar from 30mg to 20mg.
Does anyone know much about lithium orotate as opposed to lithium carbonate ??
First Rule of Survival : Never, never, ever tell a psychiatrist your psychedelic or spiritual experiences.
Hey, YetAnotherAccount, I’m sorry to hear you have the fibro symptoms. I always said that it is too weird that suddenly there is this new “disease” no body had before.
Alisha, I am very glad you are alright and safe now. I loved your story. My story is on MIA too, it’s Little Porcupine Goes to the Psych Ward. I wish only good things for you from now on.
In the mental hospital they have a big framed poster of Patients Rights. It was so ironic because if you used your patient right to sign yourself out, they Baker Acted you immediately, countering your effort to get out of there.
Sounds like EST really stirred up deeply rooted programs and catapulted you into quite a state.
I am sorry you went through so many doctors and drugs, being labeled manic depressive/bipolar. The same thing happened to me. My personal story is Little Porcupine Goes to the Psych Ward. We spent so many years of our lives dealing with drugs and drug side effects. And dealing with people labeling us. If I sneeze, certain family members immediately say that I’m manic. How far down off the medications have you been able to go?
The hospitals and doctors do not get sued by psych patients for harming them. Therefore, the hospitals and doctors do not experience any negative consequences for their actions. If people sued them, and often, perhaps we’d begin to see some changes in the treatment of people; changes to a more humane treatment.
Where are all the other patients who developed Lupus from Prozac ?? Was there a class action suit that I did not know about ??
I have peace and sometimes serenity in my life, with the psychiatric meds I am on. I am not attached to whether or not I will be able to stop taking them. I am in a process of reduction now but it remains to be seen how far it will go. I am not attached to the outcome. I am not trying to force a specific philosophy. I just report the facts.
Hi Julie Greene. You’re right, I never drive when I haven’t slept. I did switch off Prednisone to Plaquenil long ago and then one day the Lupus was gone. Now I take a tiny dose of Navane which controls my sleep cycle. I am in no great hurry to delete it due to some philosophical reasoning. Volunteering for insomnia is not something I would do at this point. I think it would take a couple years to get off the Navane. I don’t think the lithium I’m on would be as much of a problem as the Navane to withdraw. Thanks for the advice to stay on the low dose of meds rather than not sleep.
Thanks, erin321. I do agree that we are all on a spectrum of human behaviors.
Hi there, J. It was nice to wake up to your comment this morning. Your mention of POWs getting better treatment than I did was perfect because when Little Porcupine met Jack Rabbit, they took baths together in a Roman tub and she told him about the psych ward and he told her about Vietnam. He said that the psych ward was just like a POW camp. That’s in my little graphic novel.
Thank you for the sleep aid suggestions. 🙂 As I wrote in the personal story, ” I did learn to sleep again despite being hypersensitive to noises and being unable to sleep without my husband nearby. Little Porcupine learned to sleep with the security of Jack Rabbit being in the house. ” In my graphic novel, there is more detail on how I learned to sleep. And thank you for appreciating simplicity in communication. Simplicity and Innocence are not prized by Western culture.
Looking forward to more accurate information from Peter Breggin.
“why do we also describe exclusions from assisted suicide for people with mental illness as a protection rather than discrimination?” Twisted thinking if you ask me, to say we have a ‘right’ to suicide and protecting the mentally ill from suicide is a form of discrimination. People from horrendous backgrounds or on mind altering drugs are in no position to have ‘rights’ with regards to suicide. I wanted to die when I was being given a steroid and tranquilizers by medical doctors and I can tell you that was certainly not the right option. No, I did not have full capacity for decisions. Yes, some agency should protect me from myself.
As for the young man who had unbearable physical pain, I truly feel sorry for him. I have physical pain also which several psychologists have called psychosomatic which was ridiculous , it’s sciatica. To use this young man’s extreme case which could be the exception to the rule, to say that people with mental illness should be allowed to decide on suicide, is not sound thinking.
This is very true. I wrote my entire hospitalization experience in the third person. Short stories are best told in the third person. It is very helpful.
I have always felt the drugging of children to be an evil most pronounced. They are only maladjusting these children to the rigors of Western schooling.
I feel encouraged by the existence of this site. Maybe some day it will all change.
Hi Julie. I’m sorry to hear what you went through. I was wide awake and manic for two years. I was given a steroid and the steroid made me insomniac. They kept giving it to me in the psyche ward because I had drug induced lupus from prozac. I guess I’m going to do a personal story on this site because they asked me to. I’ve been working on it. It starts with the plot of Little Porcupine Goes to the Psyche Ward, my graphic novel. Then I manage to get into the first person and tell some more about my two years of insomnia which constitutes torture because I told the doctors I couldn’t sleep and they decided I was so stupid I didn’t KNOW if I slept or not. I eventually was switched off the steroid and onto an antimalarial for the lupus.
The establishment doesn’t care about these many mistakes that are made. The doctor who gave me the prozac never apologized when I saw her again in the hospital. She ignored me. This is normal, standard behavior for them. I actually toy with the idea of taking my book on the Dr. Phil Show and having him apologize to me for being tortured. He apologizes to people all the time.
Just wanted to check the notifications box. Ignore this post.
This was a very interesting training exercise. The high blood pressure and high potassium were just additional factors for the doctors in training. A transgender patient is a whole new ballgame.
Thank you for your report, Bonnie Burstow. I languished in a psyche ward myself and only years later did the thought occur to me that I could take legal action against the psychiatrist or hospital. I called several attorneys and they all told me that the state I live in has a statute of limitations; you have to bring the suit within two years of the incident. Drug induced insomnia is a form of torture as stated by the US Army. Believe it or not, this went on for two years. I could not consider suing the perpetrators because I was too mentally ill from their treatment. By the time I got well, it was too late to sue. Are there no exceptions to this rule ??
Frances Dale – author – Little Porcupine Goes to the Psyche Ward
It’s the whole medical system, not just the shrinks who are quacks. I have double sciatica and have spent 15 years going to specialists, all to no avail.
Hi Julie Greene. It sounds like your Dad was a wonderful father. 🙂
I found THIS : http://genelex.com/patients/
Hi someone. I think it is more than a PR thing. Here’s a functioning lab business that tests ahead of time to see if you can tolerate a certain drug. http://genelex.com/patients/
It’s not in the future. It exists here and now.
I wish it had existed 25 years ago when the doctor gave me prozac and I got a horrible disease (lupus) “sigh”
I find the environmental change and art to be the most healing. Also writing. Not talking therapy but writing. And TIME.
They say you bring your baggage with you with regards to the geographic cure but I find a new environment very helpful with PTSD and obsessive compulsive and base functioning in general.
“For wisdom is a worthy inheritence for those who but percieve the Sun and feel, within their hearts, the ancient Vedic truism; Thou art That!”
Do you mean heart or do you mean soul ?? ‘ Thou art That’ is an involuntary utterance from the soul.
As Rumi said, all of this will get you to the door, but will not get you through the door.
Why the Consciousness That Is Everything wants to experience this torture, I don’t know.
Yes, my biggest ‘mistake’ was going to a psychiatrist in the first place. Then I was on the psychiatric merry go round which is hard to get off.
I have a spiritual understanding of why/how this all came to be and then again, I don’t understand a thing.
I always say that if cardiologists had the track record of psychiatrists, no one would go to them. But now I’m reading from you that the cardiologists aren’t much better. I went to a rheumatologist who was even worse. I don’t trust my dentist. Well, fallible human beings are in charge.
What a wonderful thing that would be, to be pre screened for a drug or procedure.
I read the article written by Tania Gergel wherein she describes her positive experience of ECT. She states that it was a miracle treatment. So we read miracle stories. And we read horror stories, about ECT.
It reminds me of prozac. Prozac has helped a lot of people. A former Governor of my state used prozac while he was in office. But prozac gave me systemic lupus erythematosus; a horrible disease with a “cure” that is even worse.
So I always come back to: Why don’t they have a TEST for people, like an allergy test, to weed out the people who will have a bad response ?? Can such a thing be done for pills ?? Can such a thing be done for ECT ?? So then they can say, Oh, you are not a candidate for this medication/procedure.
Am I in la la land ??
Thank you for reading my book, FeelinDiscouraged. My neighbor across the street cried when she read it too. It means you are both wonderful human beings. 🙂
I have read a good portion of the comments on the anti ECT thread, Sara’s thread and the Do shrinks hurt people out of stupidity (yes) thread. I have always said that if cardiologists had the success rate that psychiatrists have, no one would go to them. No one would put up with it.
And seeing how fallible human beings are in charge everywhere, there is really no reason to look up to doctors in any profession.
Bramble, the mother doesn’t say exactly what she had the ECT for and if that problem was resolved completely by the ECT. Did I miss something ??
Did you say that you have trouble with short term memory as well ?? At least you know who your husband is. My bf is taking care of me also. I have double sciatica and am limited physically, so he does a lot of stuff I can’t do. The camera I use to use is too heavy for me now, so he bought me a little digital camera. I also rarely use it. I am excited that you ordered the book. It is a little sad and intense in the beginning, but it has a happy ending. I hope you find this post because there was nothing to click on under your last comment.
It should still be available on Amazon. Do you see it there ??
I’m considering asking the Manager of this site if I can put a little of the graphic novel on here. I’d have to write a personal story to go with it. And yes, it is on Amazon. It’s called Little Porcupine Goes to the Psyche Ward. Have you ever read Maus or Persepolis ?? Those are famous graphic novels in case you have not read them and are unfamiliar with graphic novels.
It is almost overwhelming finding this website; so MANY people have suffered like me. Others are doing art and music and writing books to tell the tale; to tell the truth. I am humbled. I thought maybe my little graphic novel would be seen and then people would understand and then people would start using psychotherapy instead of pills and the sun would come out and the birds would begin to sing. “sigh”
Again, your post is the one that jumps out at me. I wish you the very best on your book writing project. 🙂
Dear amnesia, I am very, very sorry this all happened to you. I am sending you a HUG for what it’s worth.
There’s a lot on here about schizophrenia and psychosis and that is well and good. But people are getting hard core drugs for simple things like getting a divorce and freaking out about it. Some people want a hard core drug. I remember just wanting some relief from being so terrified of being alone in the world with three kids. Alone and divorced is not a druggable offense. I needed life skills and vocational therapy. I was given prozac. And because I come from a culture where you take pills to feel better, this made sense to me. And the prozac gave me systemic lupus erythematosus, a horrible disease.
So YES, psychiatrists HARM their patients out of Stupidity.
Have you had ECT and found it helped you ?? I’m sorry you are offended. What exactly did you find offensive ?? I’d like to help you if I can.
The Johns Hopkins Genetic Research facility sent a person to my house for an interview and blood sample. They believe that bipolar is genetic. They are attempting to prove this. But when you say my cousins and my uncle and my father were all genetically manic-depressive, you over look the fact that they all came from the same family dynamics; and the same lack of spirituality, which could account for the same behaviors. I don’t know a lot about genetics but I know what I see in my family.
The illustrator for my book has schizophrenia, for which he has been receiving ECT every month for going on two years. I tried to tell him this was very bad for his brain but his mother wants him to do it, and he is irrationally attached to his mother at the age of 27. He confided to me many things, one of which that he was afraid every time they put him to sleep for the procedure.
He hasn’t answered his phone or email in over a year, whereas before we use to talk all the time. When my book was published, he drifted away and I don’t have his physical address where he lives with his mother. I have tried to find him but I only find other people with the same last name.
So many people are being lost to ECT like this. I feel like I could have done more, tried harder.
I feel such empathy for Sara Yelich-Koth and am so proud of her being so brave. I also have spent thirty years taking drugs with horrible side effects. Being in hospitals where they treat you like you are incompetent.
The article and video made me think once again of the illustrator of my book who is schizophrenic and undergoes ECT every month !!! I have tried to tell him he is being harmed but his mother is in charge. He is no longer answering his phone and I fear something has happened to him. Reading that he could be helped with niacin is making me want to go find him.
I am curious what Sara Yelich-Koth’s doctor would say to do for bipolar. I am curious what Sara would say to do. I wish I could talk to her. I have the bipolar and am completely stable on meds. Long story for another day.
I too wanted to be a therapist and do seva/service because I have acquired a lot of helpful skills and information. I wanted to go back to school for this. Physical disability has prevented me from going back to school. I am looking into medical marijuana for the pain which no prescription has helped. Then maybe ??
I am so very impressed that Sara Yelich-Koth succeeded at school and someday I predict that they are going to give her recognition and let her finish her degree.
I too am thinking of putting my story and a part of my graphic novel on this amazing site. We have to go through the pain of telling our stories if anything is going to change. I just want to hug Sara Yelich-Koth.