No, it’s a sign of a neurological “disorder” caused by the toxin. I didn’t write the disorder is independent or underlying, just that it is neurological.
Ironically, the antidepressant induced mania you mention is one of the most convincing evidence of the biological model. It is also biological evidence in specific individual in real life: if someone developed psychiatric symptoms after ingesting neurotoxins there is a strong evidence that he suffer from a neurological condition.
I think some psychiatric disorders are brain diseases, especially psychotic episodes (these are often related to legal or illegal drugs use). The problem is that psychiatrists don’t treat them properly, and they treat even things that are likely not biological as biological.
All true except that part “Clients are also excused from guilt for their problems or their kidsâ problems (offered absolution), since âbad genesâ are responsible.”.
In fact the “clients” are blamed for everything, they’re especially blamed for the result of bad treatment. One therapist in a mental hospital said the treatment isn’t working because I didn’t believe in it, and she mad at me because of it.
If the meds and treatment don’t work, the all MH system gets mad and hostile, and blames you. It’s like they think you’re doing it on purpose. Maybe it’s because it’s like an affront to their religion and they can’t think rationally about it.
The ” untreatable client” is some kind of sacrilegious profanity that they loath.
Another example is an article I’ve read about how some clients don’t like generic ssri meds, and claim they don’t work like the original ones.
The doctor in the article, said that the important thing about treating depression is consistency and how important it is to continue taking your meds, and he said these ppl stopped taking their meds consistency and that’s why they stopped working when they were switched to generic. Even though there is reason to think they did, he blamed them!
And these are depressed ppl, not “schizophrenic”. The “non compliance” and blame the patient propaganda are spreading.
The most obvious reason generic meds don’t work is that the meds are only placebo, and ppl perceive generic meds differently so they don’t have the placebo effect.
But the doc instead chose an explanation that blames e patients.
They don’t get much exercise, smoke lots and eat a lot of cake because of the drugs and treatments. The drugs make it impossible to do anything else, not to mention the imprisonment, poverty and stigma that are part of the “treatment”.
Tranquilizers were always used in pets, not to treat an illness- vets are more honest than psychiatrists- they use them to tranquilize and they call them tranquilizers and not marketing names like anti psychotic, anti anxiety and anti depression meds.
The use of ssri and psychiatric drugs to treat pets mental illness is concerning. Though I’m not sure how much the vets are buying into this. I’ve first heard about ssri for pets more than a decade ago, and most ppl still haven’t heard about it and find the idea hard to believe and ridiculous. So hopefully it’s not common practice and only a few misguided vets use these drugs on pets.
I didn’t have a poor experience with veterinarians. The profession is basically concerned with “public health”, and not patients.
There are fields in veterinary medicine of pet and animals medicine, that are about it. but many work in animal control, making sure animals are safe to eat etc.
I see a lot of similarities, as I have explained:
1) The government\ municipal authority\ whatever employs vets and psychiatrists to do pretty much the same things. Locking up “dangerous” animals and ppl.
I don’t know of any other doctors the government employs to lock up ppl\animals (maybe an epidemiologist but they rarely quarantine ppl, and usually for a good reason).
2) Both treat patients like animals. Understandable for vets, not for psychiatrists. And even if the vet cares about their patients, they still treat them like animals, and humans shouldn’t be treated like animals.
My experience with psychiatrist including your family in treatment is bad. Usually it’s for the purpose of scapegoating the patient, abusing him, and manipulating him\her and the family.
It’s also part of the “veterinary nature” of psychiatry. Both are medical professions that are focused on other things than patient health (but only vets officially and openly admit it).
Psychiatrists treat patients like animals.
They both lock up “dangerous” and unwanted animals and ppl.
and the doctors only talk and make decisions with the patient family, behind the patient back.
There are more similarities.
These productions use doctors as consultants – and we know what they’re like.
And they can’t expose the truth, there’s too much pressure on them. Your comment reminded me how they made “beautiful mind” into an advert to psych drugs. Even though John Nash doesn’t use them in the movie he does and they “saved his life” and responsible for his brilliant career and genius. The rumor was NAMI pressured the production to change the story.
I also think that some psychiatrists are just stupid or duped by the system.
And I seriously doubt their knowledge in genetics, pharmacology, biochemistry, and physiology. Psychiatrists don’t really practice medicine at all so most of them forget what they’ve learned. They’re like a doctor that retired from medicine right after they’ve finished medical internship\school.
I’m not sure there is less financial incentive in socialized medicine. The doctors can still be bribed the same way doctors in the US are bribed. There’s an especially big incentive to buy the doctors that advise the health department on what treatments and drugs to fund.
Sounds familiar. I wouldn’t be so sure about the doctors good intentions. My psychiatrist actually told me that drugs won’t work but she still insisted I’ll continue taking them and keep trying new ones.
She later tried to take back what she said cause she really wanted me to be on drugs. The aspiration that a patient would be on drugs is not related to interest in patient well-being. And when a psychiatrist tells the truth it’s usually an accident. I’m sure what she said was a slip of the tongue, and she later regretted it.
She became hostile when I refused to take anymore drugs cause they won’t help – as she said herself. I also told my parents what she said and that made it difficult for her to manipulate them and turn them against me (which the standard psychiatric practice, though sometimes it’s the family that tries to turn the psychiatrists). It didn’t help the facade of a benevolent real doctor who practice real scientific evidence based medical field.
That’s why psychiatrists always lie, to keep up the charade that they’re real doctors.
I’m glad you’ve got through it, you’re very lucky you found help.
I can’t get help cause I’m a “bad patient”, and I’m always being blackmailed to see psychiatrist even though my depression is “drug resistant”.
Not for the modern slaves working in sheltered workshops. They don’t work for money. They are constantly brained washed about how wonderful, healthy and improves mental health to work at terrible unpaid jobs they hate.
Big surprise- it’s another lie of psychiatrists slave traders.
This slavery is actually deteriorating their mental health.
I think it’s a very lucrative medical filed, that’s probably why many chose it. Though it depends on where and how you practice it.
Maybe the woman in Georgia did do one of those tests and that’s why she was prescribed those drugs. Wouldn’t it have been useful if she hadn’t had this useless unproven genetic test?
kindedrspirit-
If I wasn’t clear, I’m sorry. I’m not blaming you for not going off the drugs, I’m blaming your doctor.
The problem with psychiatry are bad doctors like yours, who insists on bad meds that don’t work. It won’t change much if the bad doctors would use bad psychiatric med gene tests.
The genetic tests for psychiatric drugs are very much useless. As far as I know, the only studies proving their effectiveness were funded by the companies that sell them. Yet amnesia keeps insisting they are useful, and that they would have prevented every murder and suicide that ever happened.
I disagree, in fact there’s good chance they could bring about more deaths.
No one know if the adverse effects are the result of bad metabolism, and I’m not even sure if they test the drug metabolism. Most of those companies don’t advertise what they test and how, they don’t even tell the doctors.
And many believe that the therapeutic effect comes from the adverse effects by enhancing the placebo effect.
Other medical fields are not like psychiatry, the doctors usually know something about the pathology and the about the meds. So the information might actually be useful to them.
Psychiatric genetic med tests are as ineffective and baseless as psychiatric meds and as anything else in psychiatry.
Here’s another link about those tests: https://eye.necir.org/2015/10/03/are-genetic-mental-health-tests-more-harm-than-good/
You should educate yourself about the difference between allergies ans enzyme deficiency, clearly you know nothing about it.
Being rude and throwing a tantrum is not very convincing. Try to control yourself, we are trying to have a civilized discussion here. Your immature reactions are only degrading yourself.
kindredspirit, I don’t think those tests are useful for psychiatric meds, since no one know how these work or if they work at all.
I’m not even sure useful information like CYP variants is helpful, cause “making you ill” might be a big part of the psychiatric drugs therapeutic effect. Preventing it might decrease placebo effects and make the treatment less effective.
I know the idea is not new, I seriously doubt how well it applies to psychiatry.
Your story is actually a pretty good example.
“Had I had the genetic testing and realized I didnât possess the enzymes necessary to metabolize the drug, I could have gone off it or tried something else.”
You could (and probably should) have gone off it without the test. Ppl shouldn’t stay for years on drugs that cause serious side effects like that. It doesn’t matter what a test says- and that’s true especially for psychiatric drugs.
It’s seems like a story about a bad doctor, not about a miracle gene test.
These psychiatric gene tests would probably create even more stories like that, as psychiatrists would insist a drug is working and continue the damaging treatment just because a test says it’s effective.
I don’t see anyone freaked out by the word genetic, maybe you are freaked out cause I’ve said you’re wrong.
It would be helpful to know which drug would have the best results for you. Unfortunately, “psychiatric DNA Testing” doesn’t seem to do it, not for John R. Brown and many others. They are also not useful in predicting allergic reactions.
I’ve heard about those things, I know there are that companies sell tests like that. I doubt the little information about “how our bodies process and use drugs” u get from the test is that helpful and can really determine if you can tolerate the drug.
The link is a site of a company that sells those test so obviously the link is PR. It seem their main claim is that they can help your doctor determine the right treatment. That help is pretty limited, the doctor would still have to use trial and error.
It’s probably not relevant to allergic reactions. It might be helpful if you have something like G6PD deficiency.
Seems like these tests are not that different than the psychiatric drugs themselves, they are all touted as a miracle safe and effective treatment.
Allergy can be developed, that’s why you’re supposed to test some skin creams on a small area every time u use them. They do allergy tests on other meds. I think amnesia is wrong and u can’t really weed out ppl. There’s always talk about how they’ll do it in the future, but I think that’s just talk. I think it’s just some kind of a PR thing. Like the talk about how psychiatry is the verge on a scientific break through that’s been going on for decades .
I know a few ppl who had ECT, some of them said it worked. all of them seemed to suffer cognitive and memory side effects.
Those side effects are probably not a risk, but a certainty.
I wouldn’t do it, you said u were happy and working at times. It might happen again, why risk it?
No, it’s a sign of a neurological “disorder” caused by the toxin. I didn’t write the disorder is independent or underlying, just that it is neurological.
Ironically, the antidepressant induced mania you mention is one of the most convincing evidence of the biological model. It is also biological evidence in specific individual in real life: if someone developed psychiatric symptoms after ingesting neurotoxins there is a strong evidence that he suffer from a neurological condition.
I think some psychiatric disorders are brain diseases, especially psychotic episodes (these are often related to legal or illegal drugs use). The problem is that psychiatrists don’t treat them properly, and they treat even things that are likely not biological as biological.
All true except that part “Clients are also excused from guilt for their problems or their kidsâ problems (offered absolution), since âbad genesâ are responsible.”.
In fact the “clients” are blamed for everything, they’re especially blamed for the result of bad treatment. One therapist in a mental hospital said the treatment isn’t working because I didn’t believe in it, and she mad at me because of it.
If the meds and treatment don’t work, the all MH system gets mad and hostile, and blames you. It’s like they think you’re doing it on purpose. Maybe it’s because it’s like an affront to their religion and they can’t think rationally about it.
The ” untreatable client” is some kind of sacrilegious profanity that they loath.
Another example is an article I’ve read about how some clients don’t like generic ssri meds, and claim they don’t work like the original ones.
The doctor in the article, said that the important thing about treating depression is consistency and how important it is to continue taking your meds, and he said these ppl stopped taking their meds consistency and that’s why they stopped working when they were switched to generic. Even though there is reason to think they did, he blamed them!
And these are depressed ppl, not “schizophrenic”. The “non compliance” and blame the patient propaganda are spreading.
The most obvious reason generic meds don’t work is that the meds are only placebo, and ppl perceive generic meds differently so they don’t have the placebo effect.
But the doc instead chose an explanation that blames e patients.
They don’t get much exercise, smoke lots and eat a lot of cake because of the drugs and treatments. The drugs make it impossible to do anything else, not to mention the imprisonment, poverty and stigma that are part of the “treatment”.
Tranquilizers were always used in pets, not to treat an illness- vets are more honest than psychiatrists- they use them to tranquilize and they call them tranquilizers and not marketing names like anti psychotic, anti anxiety and anti depression meds.
The use of ssri and psychiatric drugs to treat pets mental illness is concerning. Though I’m not sure how much the vets are buying into this. I’ve first heard about ssri for pets more than a decade ago, and most ppl still haven’t heard about it and find the idea hard to believe and ridiculous. So hopefully it’s not common practice and only a few misguided vets use these drugs on pets.
I didn’t have a poor experience with veterinarians. The profession is basically concerned with “public health”, and not patients.
There are fields in veterinary medicine of pet and animals medicine, that are about it. but many work in animal control, making sure animals are safe to eat etc.
I see a lot of similarities, as I have explained:
1) The government\ municipal authority\ whatever employs vets and psychiatrists to do pretty much the same things. Locking up “dangerous” animals and ppl.
I don’t know of any other doctors the government employs to lock up ppl\animals (maybe an epidemiologist but they rarely quarantine ppl, and usually for a good reason).
2) Both treat patients like animals. Understandable for vets, not for psychiatrists. And even if the vet cares about their patients, they still treat them like animals, and humans shouldn’t be treated like animals.
My experience with psychiatrist including your family in treatment is bad. Usually it’s for the purpose of scapegoating the patient, abusing him, and manipulating him\her and the family.
It’s also part of the “veterinary nature” of psychiatry. Both are medical professions that are focused on other things than patient health (but only vets officially and openly admit it).
Psychiatrists treat patients like animals.
They both lock up “dangerous” and unwanted animals and ppl.
and the doctors only talk and make decisions with the patient family, behind the patient back.
There are more similarities.
These productions use doctors as consultants – and we know what they’re like.
And they can’t expose the truth, there’s too much pressure on them. Your comment reminded me how they made “beautiful mind” into an advert to psych drugs. Even though John Nash doesn’t use them in the movie he does and they “saved his life” and responsible for his brilliant career and genius. The rumor was NAMI pressured the production to change the story.
I also think that some psychiatrists are just stupid or duped by the system.
And I seriously doubt their knowledge in genetics, pharmacology, biochemistry, and physiology. Psychiatrists don’t really practice medicine at all so most of them forget what they’ve learned. They’re like a doctor that retired from medicine right after they’ve finished medical internship\school.
I’m not sure there is less financial incentive in socialized medicine. The doctors can still be bribed the same way doctors in the US are bribed. There’s an especially big incentive to buy the doctors that advise the health department on what treatments and drugs to fund.
Sounds familiar. I wouldn’t be so sure about the doctors good intentions. My psychiatrist actually told me that drugs won’t work but she still insisted I’ll continue taking them and keep trying new ones.
She later tried to take back what she said cause she really wanted me to be on drugs. The aspiration that a patient would be on drugs is not related to interest in patient well-being. And when a psychiatrist tells the truth it’s usually an accident. I’m sure what she said was a slip of the tongue, and she later regretted it.
She became hostile when I refused to take anymore drugs cause they won’t help – as she said herself. I also told my parents what she said and that made it difficult for her to manipulate them and turn them against me (which the standard psychiatric practice, though sometimes it’s the family that tries to turn the psychiatrists). It didn’t help the facade of a benevolent real doctor who practice real scientific evidence based medical field.
That’s why psychiatrists always lie, to keep up the charade that they’re real doctors.
I’m glad you’ve got through it, you’re very lucky you found help.
I can’t get help cause I’m a “bad patient”, and I’m always being blackmailed to see psychiatrist even though my depression is “drug resistant”.
Not for the modern slaves working in sheltered workshops. They don’t work for money. They are constantly brained washed about how wonderful, healthy and improves mental health to work at terrible unpaid jobs they hate.
Big surprise- it’s another lie of psychiatrists slave traders.
This slavery is actually deteriorating their mental health.
I think it’s a very lucrative medical filed, that’s probably why many chose it. Though it depends on where and how you practice it.
Maybe the woman in Georgia did do one of those tests and that’s why she was prescribed those drugs. Wouldn’t it have been useful if she hadn’t had this useless unproven genetic test?
kindedrspirit-
If I wasn’t clear, I’m sorry. I’m not blaming you for not going off the drugs, I’m blaming your doctor.
The problem with psychiatry are bad doctors like yours, who insists on bad meds that don’t work. It won’t change much if the bad doctors would use bad psychiatric med gene tests.
The genetic tests for psychiatric drugs are very much useless. As far as I know, the only studies proving their effectiveness were funded by the companies that sell them. Yet amnesia keeps insisting they are useful, and that they would have prevented every murder and suicide that ever happened.
I disagree, in fact there’s good chance they could bring about more deaths.
No one know if the adverse effects are the result of bad metabolism, and I’m not even sure if they test the drug metabolism. Most of those companies don’t advertise what they test and how, they don’t even tell the doctors.
And many believe that the therapeutic effect comes from the adverse effects by enhancing the placebo effect.
Other medical fields are not like psychiatry, the doctors usually know something about the pathology and the about the meds. So the information might actually be useful to them.
Psychiatric genetic med tests are as ineffective and baseless as psychiatric meds and as anything else in psychiatry.
Here’s another link about those tests:
https://eye.necir.org/2015/10/03/are-genetic-mental-health-tests-more-harm-than-good/
You should educate yourself about the difference between allergies ans enzyme deficiency, clearly you know nothing about it.
Being rude and throwing a tantrum is not very convincing. Try to control yourself, we are trying to have a civilized discussion here. Your immature reactions are only degrading yourself.
kindredspirit, I don’t think those tests are useful for psychiatric meds, since no one know how these work or if they work at all.
I’m not even sure useful information like CYP variants is helpful, cause “making you ill” might be a big part of the psychiatric drugs therapeutic effect. Preventing it might decrease placebo effects and make the treatment less effective.
I know the idea is not new, I seriously doubt how well it applies to psychiatry.
Your story is actually a pretty good example.
“Had I had the genetic testing and realized I didnât possess the enzymes necessary to metabolize the drug, I could have gone off it or tried something else.”
You could (and probably should) have gone off it without the test. Ppl shouldn’t stay for years on drugs that cause serious side effects like that. It doesn’t matter what a test says- and that’s true especially for psychiatric drugs.
It’s seems like a story about a bad doctor, not about a miracle gene test.
These psychiatric gene tests would probably create even more stories like that, as psychiatrists would insist a drug is working and continue the damaging treatment just because a test says it’s effective.
I don’t see anyone freaked out by the word genetic, maybe you are freaked out cause I’ve said you’re wrong.
It would be helpful to know which drug would have the best results for you. Unfortunately, “psychiatric DNA Testing” doesn’t seem to do it, not for John R. Brown and many others. They are also not useful in predicting allergic reactions.
I’ve heard about those things, I know there are that companies sell tests like that. I doubt the little information about “how our bodies process and use drugs” u get from the test is that helpful and can really determine if you can tolerate the drug.
The link is a site of a company that sells those test so obviously the link is PR. It seem their main claim is that they can help your doctor determine the right treatment. That help is pretty limited, the doctor would still have to use trial and error.
It’s probably not relevant to allergic reactions. It might be helpful if you have something like G6PD deficiency.
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/new-psychiatric-dna-testing-unproven-ground-n437781
“These new DNA tests are based on small studies by the companies who manufacture them, opening the possibility of conflict of interest, according to Daley. And there is little oversight for consumer safety because, for now, they do not require Food and Drug Administration approval.”
Seems like these tests are not that different than the psychiatric drugs themselves, they are all touted as a miracle safe and effective treatment.
Allergy can be developed, that’s why you’re supposed to test some skin creams on a small area every time u use them. They do allergy tests on other meds. I think amnesia is wrong and u can’t really weed out ppl. There’s always talk about how they’ll do it in the future, but I think that’s just talk. I think it’s just some kind of a PR thing. Like the talk about how psychiatry is the verge on a scientific break through that’s been going on for decades .
I know a few ppl who had ECT, some of them said it worked. all of them seemed to suffer cognitive and memory side effects.
Those side effects are probably not a risk, but a certainty.
I wouldn’t do it, you said u were happy and working at times. It might happen again, why risk it?