Psychiatry and Psychology are both ways of evading, denying, the ways in which your own social and civil standing, your public honor, have been destroyed by abuses.
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Eco Centered?
Abuses destroy someone’s biography and social identity. So we either fight back, or we are aiding the abusers.
Don’t give me any of this Eco Centered stuff. That is just another way of aiding the abusers.
Once someone realized that their life has been mangled by abuses, any progress they make in fighting back will most always threaten people’s denial systems.
So it has then to be solo, friends, even a spouse jettisoned, and no psychotherapists or recovery programs.
Julie,
Just because they are so called peers, that does not make Mental Health, Psychotherapy, or Recovery into something good. I think it actually better shows them for what they are, a kind of a denial system, a kind of a religion.
Yes, there is no such thing as a side effect, because there is no legitimate purpose behind these drugs. They must be eliminated.
What have you done today to eradicate the mental health system and psychotherapy?
For me, nothing more than posting on this forum, but in the future my answer will be very different.
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YES, and that means fighting back against living foes, people who are probably going to try and defend themselves. You don’t just wait until perpetrators are dead, you find ways, find people to act against on this side of the grave!
Do not want this, will not tolerate it. The concept is nonsense.
Eradication of the mental health system, eradication of all forms of it, and Crimes Against Humanities prosecution for the current practitioners.
Psychotherapy is a means of containing the abused.
Needs to be attorneys fighting to end the mental health system and to protect children from the middle-class family. Otherwise disclosure is very unwise.
Good question.
One who has survived abuses quickly learns that they have to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL about talking to friends.
It has to be restricted to those on the barricades who are putting themselves at risk, or to attorneys.
A social and civil identity is restored by fighting, not by disclosing to non-comrades.
Biomedical model is corrupt. But so also is the Moral Improvement model of Psychotherapy, Healing, and Recovery. It is all just putting it back on the survivor and making it like it is something wrong about them.
Psychiatry, coerced treatment, and the bogus drugs all fall within Nuremburg Precedents. And likewise, it is wrong to use mental health questionnaires, or to write or publish articles based on them.
Otherwise it is going to be just endless debate, as new violators figure out ways to use the horrors of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy to justify their new stuff. Abusing survivors is highly profitable, and survivors having been abused before, we are easy to abuse again.
There have to be severe criminal penalties, for the doctors, and sometimes for the parents too. And where it fits, for Foster Care Systems.
But no one recovers from ~Mental Illness~ because there is no such thing.
And their path will be far more rocky if they are led to believe in ~mental illness~ ~psychotherapy~ or ~recovery~.
Those drugs should not exist. Those who have been prescribing them should be prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity. Those who have been giving them to children should receive the ultimate penalty.
We need to close down the ~mental health~ system and get the practitioners prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity.
We need to stop our government from licensing, funding, or promoting Psychotherapy or Recovery and Healing programs.
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But more than a million dead Iraqis would have loved the chance to fight back with an AK-47, rather than to get tangled up in Mental Health, Psychotherapy, or Recovery and Healing.
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We don’t want any kind of psychiatry, re-visioned or otherwise.
We want to eradicate psychiatry and to incarcerate the practitioners
Steve, so called ~healing~ is just a gimmick to tell people that they should learn to live without public honor. The therapist listens, but they are not really listening because they don’t agree.
So what else can you call this except PITY ?
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Eradication of the ~Mental Health System~, not peer specialists.
The concept of “Healing” is just a further way of abusing survivors, getting them to live without public honor and to see that as morally superior.
Psychotherapy is not any kind of a move towards liberation.
Human Rights means no more talk of any kind about ~Mental Health~
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Yes, everyday stress could lead to suicide. But I also think that there usually is some other kind of injustice and denial in play.
Talk about “healing”, “recovery”, or “therapy” is such a continuing injustice and denial.
Yes, family scapegoating, and no legal redress.
In other industrialized countries the law makes it very difficult to disinherit.
The idea of “healing” in the context of systemic abuse is just a scam. You don’t heal when everyone sees you as the one who is at fault.
If they didn’t see you as the one who was at fault they would be helping you to obtain justice.
No, they see you, just as they have always seen rape survivors, as the one who is at fault.
Healing is just a way of surrendering to abusers.
Don’t ever have any contact with any tentacle of the Mental Health, Psychotherapy, or Recovery apparatus.
Instead deal exclusively with lawyers and political activists.
Anyone who has had their legitimacy revoked, nullified, stands at risk of further abuses via efforts to break down their privacy.
Being sent to a Psychotherapist is one of the worst.
What it revolves around are types of abuses and delegitimation which our society is in denial about. Once you have survived these, your life depends upon privacy walls. But the tool most likely used to attack you will be the con artistry of psychotherapy.
And gov’t agencies could try to subject you to this.
Psychotherapy is a state operated tool used to break people down.
Healing is just a way to marginalize survivors.
It is what anti-rape activists have always called, “Second Rape”.
It’s not that they don’t believe you, its that they don’t believe that you are entitled to justice instead of pity.
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Nothing which promotes any kind of Psychotherapy could ever be a move towards liberation.
Any ~mental health~ report is seriously misguided, and we should not be seeing articles about such.
We do not need to be seeing any talk about ~Mental Health~
^^^^ Rather like telling people that they suffer from a ~Brain Chemical Difference~ instead of a ~Brain Chemical Imbalance~, in order to get them to go along with it.
And it also advances the teacher’s own denial systems.
Agreeing with VerticalMan.
Psychotherapy and Recovery are huge parts of the problem, telling you how to interpret your experience.
And the door to this is opened when you disclose your personal affairs.
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All a government program admin has to do is suggest that your think reflects a psychological problem, the you are delegitimated. You will end up having to disclose your affairs to a psychotherapist. This is a brazen method of denying you your rights.
^^^^^ agreeing with Rachel.
^^^ Anyone who has been marginalized, sidelined, is at risk of getting caught in the mental health bear trap.
Talking about things like “self-esteem” instead of “social and civil standing” can be a first step of de-legitimation.
Education, political support, legal support, political activism!
But not Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, or Healing.
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Elizabeth, the alternative to mental health, psychotherapy, and recovery is always the middle-finger. There is no reason for these things to exist, no reason for anyone to cooperate with them. They are all predatory, striking at people who have been margin alized and usually abused.
What we need to build are groups for political and legal activism, and to help people fight back to obtain justice over past abuses, and to fight back when they are being targeted. The Mental Health and Recovery System is often coercive.
Anyone who has been marginalized, blocked in their quest to properly apply their skills and abilities, they may find themselves as a target for psychotherapy and recovery.
We need to have organized ways to resist, like a religious objection.
“I think its always been presumed that drugs taken to make people feel happier are likely to make them feel more unhappy in the long run. Itās only ārecentlyā that people have attempted to argue against this.”
It is true that happy pills make people more unhappy long term. They aren’t dealing with their affairs, they aren’t living in their skin.
But what is wrong is just the idea of using chemical mood alterants in the first place.
We must organize and educate the public and fight against all facets of the Mental Health System:
1. Psychiatry and Drugs
2. Psychotherapy and Recovery
3. Autism-Aspergers-Neurodiverstiy
And it is all coercive as the practitioners get power over people, and because it runs on deception.
We must stop promoting the idea of Mental Health, or of Psychotherapy or Recovery, or of any kind of chemical mood alterants.
We do not need eclectic therapy, or therapies of any kind. It is all a huge scam.
Yes, we must boycott all such professions, and social scapegoating starts in the home.
People have resisted this pertaining to Autism, in France. These have been mostly psychoanalysts. Now psychoanalysts are not lawyers. But at least they are not trying to ~treat autism~ via ~behavioral therapies~.
It is the US and UK Autism Advocates, like Alex Plank, who have put pressure on France, making such ~treatments~ into a human rights issue, and also promoting neo-liberalism.
^^^^ YES!
^^^^^^ YES!
But we also do not want our government licensing or promoting psychotherapy, as it is a con, and survivors are being further taken advantage of when they end up confessing their anger to a psychotherapist.
“Loneliness Increases Risk of Severe āCommon Mental Disordersā”
No, that is not correct. There is no such thing as these ~Common Mental Disorders~.
Loneliness will create stress and marginalization. But there are no ~Mental Disorders~.
The real public health threat is really just public lying, telling people that there are ~mental disorders~.
So it is all coercive, its just being done via duplicity and deception.
This is why I say:
1. Eliminate Psychiatry and prosecute the practitioners in International Court.
2. Stop our government from being able to license or fund or promote Psychotherapy, Life Coaching, Recovery, or Religion.
Watchout, this will be like with Autism, where US and UK groups pressure them to treat ADHD as a real objective physical condition.
Trump is making war on the homeless and the poor, going after food stamps. And then talking about new programs and internment camps.
Really, anyone who has been harmed, who has to protect themselves, is vulnerable to getting caught by the mental health system. They use the need for benefits, and the fact that someone needs to protect oneself from being further harmed. If they think they have found an easy mark, they can start with polite interrogation.
Anyone who has been harmed, survived abuses, they need to protect themselves from follow on abuses. Privacy is a necessary first line of defense. My friend K. was taking a huge risk and a Kaiser Doctor called and had him hauled off on a Psychiatric Hold.
There is never any such thing as ‘healing’ or ‘recovery’ in the area of systemic abuse. The abuses are still happening.
You have only Victory, or Defeat, or total collapse and collaboration with the enemy via denial systems.
The mental health system is that ultimate vehicle of collaboration.
I doubted before that it could just grab someone. But yes, it is an arm of the state, never more than a 911 call away. So now I understand better how innocent people get caught in it. Or I am starting to.
Need to make training courses and literature and have attorneys ready to help people evade it.
And the poor are always some of the most vulnerable.
You do not ‘recover’ or ‘heal’ from systemic abuse. It is ongoing.
You either achieve victory over the abusers, or you are defeated, or you become one who collaborates with the abusers by using denial systems.
Eliminating Mental Health Care and Prosecuting the Practitioners.
The whole thing is just about delegitimating abuse survivors!
Telling children who are being subjected to school bullying, to parental hatred, and to persecution by school admins, that they have this ~Neurological Difference~, and that they are supposed to go along with it.
!!!!!!
Trump and the Republicans are foisting a Neo-Liberal Supply Side fantasy onto our populace. This has been going on for over 30 years now, and most people believe it. It is totally illogical, Voodoo Economics, or Faith Based Economics.
It really will go to internment camps and biomass conversion technologies if we do not find ways to act and educate the public.
It is as a crystallization of such situations which the CONCEPT OF ~Autism-Aspergerās-Neurological Difference seems to arise.
We must show people how to resist, and how to resist collaborators like this Nick Walker too.
We need to get people to move from seeing their experience as an indicator of a need for ~psychiatry~, or for ~psychotherapy~, or for ~recovery~, but rather as indicating a history of unredressed abuse and injustice, and we all need to move for fighting back, punishing perpetrators, seizing reparations, as well as creating new life options.
Psychiatry and those drugs should not exist. And those who have perpetuated this abuse should not go unpunished.
We need to get people to move from seeing their experience as an indicator of a need for ~psychiatry~, or for ~psychotherapy~, or for ~recovery~, but rather as indicating a history of unredressed abuse and injustice, and we all need to move for fighting back, punishing perpetrators, seizing reparations, as well as creating new life options.
Magdalene D’Silva, no one recovers from ~mental illness~ because there is no such thing.
The idea of Recovery is just a way to pacify the survivors of abuse, make them doubt their own perceptions and feelings.
As far as I can tell, you often have situations where the parents are jealous of their child. The child could grow up in health and free shame or stigma, and without having to prove their legitimacy. But the parents are frightened of that. They had to submit and conform to herd expectations. They are ashamed to have a child who seems not to be doing so.
They don’t want the child to be able to exit the herd. They don’t want them to become expert original contributors in any field. So they undermine the child’s chances of educating themselves and distinguishing themselves.
So then the child will likely end up employed by people who are also jealous of their intelligence, and who already have an axe to grind in denigrating that person.
It is as a crystallization of such situations which the ~Autism-Asperger’s-Neurological Difference seems to arise.
The idea that one can self-regulate, self-manage, with drugs, is a fallacy. We all have to get off of all drugs. For me the problem is caffeine.
Yipes!
Don’t know if this idea helps, but Crimes Against Humanities has no statute of limitations.
Lifted in the Mid-60’s, in part thanks to the efforts of the Simon Wiesenthal Center.
And why do these hospitals still exist and why does the mental health system still exist?
And why are their research articles published on this forum which still in one way or another try to legitimate it?
We need to abolish the ~Mental Heath~ system and the ~Mental Health~ concept, not be inventing ways to repackage them. And we don’t need to be seeing articles about such.
There is no such thing as ~Mental Illness~ or ~Mental Health~. For the most part the reason these fallacies exist is to perpetuate denial of abuse.
And in large measure ~Autism/Asperger’s/Neurodiversity~ work the same ways.
Even if we cannot agree on everything, we need to develop a strategy for fighting back, for hitting targets of opportunity, and for baiting and provoking the enemy.
The ~Autism/Asperger’s/Neurodiverstiy~ assessment mostly seems to exonerate perpetrators.
Like for John Elder Robison, Temple Grandin, Alex Plank, and for Nick Walker, this seems to be the main reason that they go along with it and promote it.
It is easier to believe in something, even total fiction, if it lets one evade the fact that they have been subjected to horrendous abuses. These abuses usually will have come before the assessment, but the the assessment itself ushers in whole new kinds of abuses. But the fiction created by the label, and the fantasy that that will lead to real answers, as Sami Timimi explains, are far easier to stomach that to see the abuses themselves and how much of one’s life opportunities have been destroyed by that.
Not a Cartesian film like memory of events, but a Heideggarian Always-Already Thrown experience of what has been done, and what the tremendous costs have been.
The assessment lets one stay in denial. And to stay true to the OP, the Nick Walker program promoting the concept of ~Neurodiversity~ is just another form of extreme child abuse.
If the center does not hold and the American Experiment with Electoral Democracy has failed, then Gun Barrel Communism.
Recovery is a scam, just a way of further abusing the survivors of abuse.
Anti-Depressants and other psychiatric drugs should not even exist.
Articles which suggest that there could ever be a reason to ingest such drugs should not exist.
There is no such thing as ~bipolar~ or ~mental illness~
YES!
~Mental Health~ and ~Autism Spectrum~ work on people who have already been marginalized, or who are still children. It is all about the scapegoats of the middle-class family, and about the ~self-reliance ethic.
It is all about POWER. And restorative justice starts when survivors decide to stop complying and enabling, but instead to stand up for themselves and others.
One place to start is by reforming the US inheritance laws. In most other industrialized countries you cannot disinherit a child. If you try, or if a will is challenged, it will be equal share inheritance. Of course this is late in the game, but it will change how people look at family scapegoating. In the end, the child wins and the senile-suicidal testators get postmortem humiliation.
Most evangelical churches revolve around people having at least one scapegoat child. This was one of the reasons why I got involved and helped get a Pentecostal molester a conviction and long prison term.
This is also why I think we have to start with Foucault, not someone like Thomas Szasz.
YES!
I say that life coaching is a scam. But so are lots of other things. Just so long as the gov’t is not licensing, funding, or promoting it.
And really, the same goes for psychotherapy.
And it is already life and death, because this country is going in a fascist direction, wanting to kick people off of food stamps and school lunches, and wanting to make homeless internment camps, and then creating a HUGE underclass of family scape goats, via ~Mental Health~ and ~Autism-Aspergers~.
Less and less labor is needed every single day. The place where we will be converting human corpses into Nutrition Bars and Petroleum is not that far out.
We do need to make a revolution, but not in ~mental health~.
“explored respecting the fact that behavior is simply a choice?”
To me it seems that the reason this does not happen is that most of the ~Autism-Aspergers-Neurodiversity~ advocates believe that one is obliged to measure up to a broad range of social expectations.
Like one on Alex Plank’s “Wrong Planet” forum said that without the ~Autism-Aspergers~ classification, the “the parents would just think that that kid was extremely rebellious”. And then John Elder Robison says, “They don’t owe you an allowance”. And of Temple Grandin, her whole pitch is about conformance with the ~Self-Reliance Ethic~.
Of Naomi Klein, listening to her in just the one statement, it does sound like she does see being a target of school bullying as being at least a factor in defining one as having such a ~condition~, and she is in effect pointing a finger at children on this ~spectrum~ in being a frustration to their parents for not being willing to play Simon Says.
And then this Nick Walker, advocating for ~Radical Neurodiversity~ and not necessarily tying it to a genetic cause, he is still targeting those who have been labeled by white coats and parents. He is just switching their lapel labels, from something which sounds negative to something which does not to him sound negative. But for your social and civil standing, his lapel label is just as bad as any other. The fact that someone would still accept a label, and attend Nicks classes, rather than responding with FU, suggests that they do not even understand the concept of social and civil standing and that they are already functioning under duress.
I say that everyone and anyone must forcefully reject these kinds of labels, and then we must protect children in school and in the home, and in the doctor’s office.
People do have different temperaments, and this is apparent in children. But the ~Autism Spectrum~ concept does come from trying to make people fit into situations, and especially from the middle-class family and from universal schooling. Going along with the ~ASD~ concept, in my view, is always a mistake. And never would Alex Plank’s stuff or Nick Walker’s stuff ever be welcome in anything I am responsible for.
Knowing when to use violence, and knowing how to use it, are just normal parts of life. No reason survivors should ever be asked to renounce violence, or to show that they are opposed or incapable of it.
Someone who is being labeled by the ~Mental Health System~ is more likely to be in situations where they will have legitimate cause to use violence.
In opposing the legislation of Tim Murphy, it was wrong to try and appease him by making it look like violence was completely off of the table.
Those labeled by the ~Mental Health System~ are seen as deficient. Being willing to absorb abuses, or to take the position towards them which Psychotherapists advocate, is part of this problem.
Gut wrenching story about a son, Mark, who dies at age 6, and then the husband who dies in an accident a year later.
Mark was born with a heart problem. He had surgery on his first birthday. Then they found out that he has pulmonary hypertension. There is no cure, no treatment, and it is 100% fatal. They gave him 3 months to 3 years.
In book it comments that at age 1 1/2 Mark was not really talking.
Would this today get him an ~Autism – Aspergers – Neurological Difference~ label?
Husband Heinz said that he did not talk until age 3. Would this get him the label?
Later in bathtub, Mark utters a very complex sentence, entirely grammatically correct, explaining why he does not want to talk yet.
Elaine is surprised. Yes that would be surprising, like you are suddenly hearing from a much older person.
Is this what Hans Asperger called “The Little Professor”, one of the children he decided to keep around as he sent thousands more to be euthanized?
So Mark Pagels really does sound like some kind of a Magical Child.
7 years trying to get pregnant, then some kind of a fertility ritual. In lucid dreaming Elaine is approached by some kind of a spiritual being who tells her that she is trying to control it, and asks if she is willing to just let go and be a vehicle for what happens. She says yes.
Does this qualify as one of the announced births, like for example Isaac and Samuel?
3 weeks later she discovers that she is pregnant.
Mark not really talking at age 1 1/2, except for that exceptional sentence. Heinz not talking at age 3.
But John Elder Robison and his partner trying to force their son to talk and to read aloud. Trying to force him to play Patty Cake. Of course he refuses. But then he does start to read at summer camp, first time he had ever been away from his parents.
Then later they will send him to the Yale lab where he will be accessed as having ~Asperger’s Syndrome~.
Then later John and the boy’s mother will also be assessed, and they both have it too!
For John this marks an entire new direction for his admittedly hard life. It now explains everything.
He becomes one of the most widely read ~Autism~ advocates. John talks about the people who design and build rail locomotives, and who work for NASA, and who design the diesel engines for container ships. That really is a lot of people.
And John becomes the primary advocate for Trans-Cranial Magnet treatment.
They only wanted to have children, as John explains, because co-workers were having them. And soon the partner is bringing home pedagogy magazines.
And then Naomi Klein seems to think that you can distinguish a child who is on the ~spectrum~, because other children will play Simon Says, where as those on the ~spectrum~ won’t. They are in their own worlds, they don’t “mirror”. And she says that this is why they get bullied.
There is something seriously wrong with this picture. The concepts of Autism, Aspergers, Neurological Difference are just ways of justifying the exploitation and abuse of children and adults.
Elaine and Heinz Pagels had very interesting academic careers, lots and lots of friends, mostly colleagues and students, educated at Stanford and Harvard, and dealing with extremely high level stuff. Never trying to live beyond their means, never being influenced by Motivationalism, Self-Improvement, or Financial Literacy teachings. Never feeling pressed to keep up with anyone. Their works always had intrinsic value, not just extrinsic value. And they and their son Mark, and now their two adopted children, always have intrinsic value.
They have suffered more pain than most could bear, but it was never from some feeling that they needed to measure up to some external standards.
And never could I see that they were ever exploiting their children or refusing to take responsibility for their own choices.
Mark did seem a magical child, and that his life was to be so short seems to have been foreordained.
Naomi Klien and John Elder Robison on the otherhand, they really make my blood boil. And then the White Coats behind all this, they infuriate me beyond measure or description.
NO, we do not need any Mental Health Care Revolution or any Mental Health Revolution. We need to eradicate the Mental Health System, and to prosecute the present practitioners.
With Psychotherapy, Recovery, Life Coaching, and Motivationalism, just stop our government from being able to license these, and stop our government from being able to fund or promote them.
And it all starts by just learning to say FU.
Shutting down psychiatry would appear to have to be an all or nothing project. There is not the public will for this at this time.
But shutting down psychotherapists can be a one by one project. So long as we have clients who want to pursue it, should be quite doable. And this will change how the public thinks.
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I am totally supportive of any and all such boycotts and refusals to cooperate.
I believe that Psychotherapists can be taken down subject to clients who are willing to talk and provide affidavits.
What Freud called Transference is simply the point at which the client realizes that they have been spilling their guts, and investing time and money, into someone who just pretends to accept what they are saying. Rather, they see what has been said as evidence of defect, or of wrong thinking.
Pertaining to this new New York state āChild Victims Actā, the proponents explain how hard it has been to obtain justice, and they say, āThatās why we changed the law.ā
Lets set up some mechanisms to do this.
One which I think would make a big difference would be an organized program to promote “Transference Abuse” lawsuits against psychotherapists.
https://openingoftheway.createaforum.com/
Psychiatry and Psychology are both ways of evading, denying, the ways in which your own social and civil standing, your public honor, have been destroyed by abuses.
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Eco Centered?
Abuses destroy someone’s biography and social identity. So we either fight back, or we are aiding the abusers.
Don’t give me any of this Eco Centered stuff. That is just another way of aiding the abusers.
Once someone realized that their life has been mangled by abuses, any progress they make in fighting back will most always threaten people’s denial systems.
So it has then to be solo, friends, even a spouse jettisoned, and no psychotherapists or recovery programs.
Julie,
Just because they are so called peers, that does not make Mental Health, Psychotherapy, or Recovery into something good. I think it actually better shows them for what they are, a kind of a denial system, a kind of a religion.
Yes, there is no such thing as a side effect, because there is no legitimate purpose behind these drugs. They must be eliminated.
What have you done today to eradicate the mental health system and psychotherapy?
For me, nothing more than posting on this forum, but in the future my answer will be very different.
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YES, and that means fighting back against living foes, people who are probably going to try and defend themselves. You don’t just wait until perpetrators are dead, you find ways, find people to act against on this side of the grave!
Do not want this, will not tolerate it. The concept is nonsense.
Eradication of the mental health system, eradication of all forms of it, and Crimes Against Humanities prosecution for the current practitioners.
Psychotherapy is a means of containing the abused.
Needs to be attorneys fighting to end the mental health system and to protect children from the middle-class family. Otherwise disclosure is very unwise.
Good question.
One who has survived abuses quickly learns that they have to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL about talking to friends.
It has to be restricted to those on the barricades who are putting themselves at risk, or to attorneys.
A social and civil identity is restored by fighting, not by disclosing to non-comrades.
Biomedical model is corrupt. But so also is the Moral Improvement model of Psychotherapy, Healing, and Recovery. It is all just putting it back on the survivor and making it like it is something wrong about them.
Yes, a day of reckoning,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_trial
Psychiatry, coerced treatment, and the bogus drugs all fall within Nuremburg Precedents. And likewise, it is wrong to use mental health questionnaires, or to write or publish articles based on them.
Otherwise it is going to be just endless debate, as new violators figure out ways to use the horrors of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy to justify their new stuff. Abusing survivors is highly profitable, and survivors having been abused before, we are easy to abuse again.
There have to be severe criminal penalties, for the doctors, and sometimes for the parents too. And where it fits, for Foster Care Systems.
But no one recovers from ~Mental Illness~ because there is no such thing.
And their path will be far more rocky if they are led to believe in ~mental illness~ ~psychotherapy~ or ~recovery~.
Those drugs should not exist. Those who have been prescribing them should be prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity. Those who have been giving them to children should receive the ultimate penalty.
We need to close down the ~mental health~ system and get the practitioners prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity.
We need to stop our government from licensing, funding, or promoting Psychotherapy or Recovery and Healing programs.
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But more than a million dead Iraqis would have loved the chance to fight back with an AK-47, rather than to get tangled up in Mental Health, Psychotherapy, or Recovery and Healing.
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We don’t want any kind of psychiatry, re-visioned or otherwise.
We want to eradicate psychiatry and to incarcerate the practitioners
Steve, so called ~healing~ is just a gimmick to tell people that they should learn to live without public honor. The therapist listens, but they are not really listening because they don’t agree.
So what else can you call this except PITY ?
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Eradication of the ~Mental Health System~, not peer specialists.
The concept of “Healing” is just a further way of abusing survivors, getting them to live without public honor and to see that as morally superior.
Psychotherapy is not any kind of a move towards liberation.
Human Rights means no more talk of any kind about ~Mental Health~
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Yes, everyday stress could lead to suicide. But I also think that there usually is some other kind of injustice and denial in play.
Talk about “healing”, “recovery”, or “therapy” is such a continuing injustice and denial.
Yes, family scapegoating, and no legal redress.
In other industrialized countries the law makes it very difficult to disinherit.
The idea of “healing” in the context of systemic abuse is just a scam. You don’t heal when everyone sees you as the one who is at fault.
If they didn’t see you as the one who was at fault they would be helping you to obtain justice.
No, they see you, just as they have always seen rape survivors, as the one who is at fault.
Healing is just a way of surrendering to abusers.
Don’t ever have any contact with any tentacle of the Mental Health, Psychotherapy, or Recovery apparatus.
Instead deal exclusively with lawyers and political activists.
Anyone who has had their legitimacy revoked, nullified, stands at risk of further abuses via efforts to break down their privacy.
Being sent to a Psychotherapist is one of the worst.
What it revolves around are types of abuses and delegitimation which our society is in denial about. Once you have survived these, your life depends upon privacy walls. But the tool most likely used to attack you will be the con artistry of psychotherapy.
And gov’t agencies could try to subject you to this.
Psychotherapy is a state operated tool used to break people down.
Healing is just a way to marginalize survivors.
It is what anti-rape activists have always called, “Second Rape”.
It’s not that they don’t believe you, its that they don’t believe that you are entitled to justice instead of pity.
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Nothing which promotes any kind of Psychotherapy could ever be a move towards liberation.
Any ~mental health~ report is seriously misguided, and we should not be seeing articles about such.
We do not need to be seeing any talk about ~Mental Health~
^^^^ Rather like telling people that they suffer from a ~Brain Chemical Difference~ instead of a ~Brain Chemical Imbalance~, in order to get them to go along with it.
And it also advances the teacher’s own denial systems.
Agreeing with VerticalMan.
Psychotherapy and Recovery are huge parts of the problem, telling you how to interpret your experience.
And the door to this is opened when you disclose your personal affairs.
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All a government program admin has to do is suggest that your think reflects a psychological problem, the you are delegitimated. You will end up having to disclose your affairs to a psychotherapist. This is a brazen method of denying you your rights.
^^^^^ agreeing with Rachel.
^^^ Anyone who has been marginalized, sidelined, is at risk of getting caught in the mental health bear trap.
Talking about things like “self-esteem” instead of “social and civil standing” can be a first step of de-legitimation.
Education, political support, legal support, political activism!
But not Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, or Healing.
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Elizabeth, the alternative to mental health, psychotherapy, and recovery is always the middle-finger. There is no reason for these things to exist, no reason for anyone to cooperate with them. They are all predatory, striking at people who have been margin alized and usually abused.
What we need to build are groups for political and legal activism, and to help people fight back to obtain justice over past abuses, and to fight back when they are being targeted. The Mental Health and Recovery System is often coercive.
Anyone who has been marginalized, blocked in their quest to properly apply their skills and abilities, they may find themselves as a target for psychotherapy and recovery.
We need to have organized ways to resist, like a religious objection.
“I think its always been presumed that drugs taken to make people feel happier are likely to make them feel more unhappy in the long run. Itās only ārecentlyā that people have attempted to argue against this.”
It is true that happy pills make people more unhappy long term. They aren’t dealing with their affairs, they aren’t living in their skin.
But what is wrong is just the idea of using chemical mood alterants in the first place.
We must organize and educate the public and fight against all facets of the Mental Health System:
1. Psychiatry and Drugs
2. Psychotherapy and Recovery
3. Autism-Aspergers-Neurodiverstiy
And it is all coercive as the practitioners get power over people, and because it runs on deception.
We must stop promoting the idea of Mental Health, or of Psychotherapy or Recovery, or of any kind of chemical mood alterants.
We do not need eclectic therapy, or therapies of any kind. It is all a huge scam.
Yes, we must boycott all such professions, and social scapegoating starts in the home.
People have resisted this pertaining to Autism, in France. These have been mostly psychoanalysts. Now psychoanalysts are not lawyers. But at least they are not trying to ~treat autism~ via ~behavioral therapies~.
It is the US and UK Autism Advocates, like Alex Plank, who have put pressure on France, making such ~treatments~ into a human rights issue, and also promoting neo-liberalism.
^^^^ YES!
^^^^^^ YES!
But we also do not want our government licensing or promoting psychotherapy, as it is a con, and survivors are being further taken advantage of when they end up confessing their anger to a psychotherapist.
“Loneliness Increases Risk of Severe āCommon Mental Disordersā”
No, that is not correct. There is no such thing as these ~Common Mental Disorders~.
Loneliness will create stress and marginalization. But there are no ~Mental Disorders~.
The real public health threat is really just public lying, telling people that there are ~mental disorders~.
So it is all coercive, its just being done via duplicity and deception.
This is why I say:
1. Eliminate Psychiatry and prosecute the practitioners in International Court.
2. Stop our government from being able to license or fund or promote Psychotherapy, Life Coaching, Recovery, or Religion.
Watchout, this will be like with Autism, where US and UK groups pressure them to treat ADHD as a real objective physical condition.
Trump is making war on the homeless and the poor, going after food stamps. And then talking about new programs and internment camps.
Really, anyone who has been harmed, who has to protect themselves, is vulnerable to getting caught by the mental health system. They use the need for benefits, and the fact that someone needs to protect oneself from being further harmed. If they think they have found an easy mark, they can start with polite interrogation.
Anyone who has been harmed, survived abuses, they need to protect themselves from follow on abuses. Privacy is a necessary first line of defense. My friend K. was taking a huge risk and a Kaiser Doctor called and had him hauled off on a Psychiatric Hold.
There is never any such thing as ‘healing’ or ‘recovery’ in the area of systemic abuse. The abuses are still happening.
You have only Victory, or Defeat, or total collapse and collaboration with the enemy via denial systems.
The mental health system is that ultimate vehicle of collaboration.
I doubted before that it could just grab someone. But yes, it is an arm of the state, never more than a 911 call away. So now I understand better how innocent people get caught in it. Or I am starting to.
https://www.mysecuritysign.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/booby-trap.jpg
Need to make training courses and literature and have attorneys ready to help people evade it.
And the poor are always some of the most vulnerable.
You do not ‘recover’ or ‘heal’ from systemic abuse. It is ongoing.
You either achieve victory over the abusers, or you are defeated, or you become one who collaborates with the abusers by using denial systems.
Eliminating Mental Health Care and Prosecuting the Practitioners.
The whole thing is just about delegitimating abuse survivors!
Telling children who are being subjected to school bullying, to parental hatred, and to persecution by school admins, that they have this ~Neurological Difference~, and that they are supposed to go along with it.
!!!!!!
Trump and the Republicans are foisting a Neo-Liberal Supply Side fantasy onto our populace. This has been going on for over 30 years now, and most people believe it. It is totally illogical, Voodoo Economics, or Faith Based Economics.
It really will go to internment camps and biomass conversion technologies if we do not find ways to act and educate the public.
It is as a crystallization of such situations which the CONCEPT OF ~Autism-Aspergerās-Neurological Difference seems to arise.
We must show people how to resist, and how to resist collaborators like this Nick Walker too.
We need to get people to move from seeing their experience as an indicator of a need for ~psychiatry~, or for ~psychotherapy~, or for ~recovery~, but rather as indicating a history of unredressed abuse and injustice, and we all need to move for fighting back, punishing perpetrators, seizing reparations, as well as creating new life options.
Chris Hedges, really interesting voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycuw9Cvh6W4
Psychiatry and those drugs should not exist. And those who have perpetuated this abuse should not go unpunished.
We need to get people to move from seeing their experience as an indicator of a need for ~psychiatry~, or for ~psychotherapy~, or for ~recovery~, but rather as indicating a history of unredressed abuse and injustice, and we all need to move for fighting back, punishing perpetrators, seizing reparations, as well as creating new life options.
Chris Hedges, really interesting voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycuw9Cvh6W4
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Magdalene D’Silva, no one recovers from ~mental illness~ because there is no such thing.
The idea of Recovery is just a way to pacify the survivors of abuse, make them doubt their own perceptions and feelings.
As far as I can tell, you often have situations where the parents are jealous of their child. The child could grow up in health and free shame or stigma, and without having to prove their legitimacy. But the parents are frightened of that. They had to submit and conform to herd expectations. They are ashamed to have a child who seems not to be doing so.
They don’t want the child to be able to exit the herd. They don’t want them to become expert original contributors in any field. So they undermine the child’s chances of educating themselves and distinguishing themselves.
So then the child will likely end up employed by people who are also jealous of their intelligence, and who already have an axe to grind in denigrating that person.
It is as a crystallization of such situations which the ~Autism-Asperger’s-Neurological Difference seems to arise.
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Donald Trump’s war on the homeless:
āNothing Ends Homelessness Like a Homeā: Advocates Slam Trumpās Attack on SF & Homeless People
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/10/3/homelessness_california_trump_attacks_water_quality#transcript
Trump vs. California: In Blow to Climate, U.S. Revokes Stateās Stricter Auto Emissions Standards
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/10/3/trump_admin_california_climate_policies#transcript
As Man Dies in ICE Custody, California Moves to Ban For-Profit Prisons, Including Immigrant Jails
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/10/3/california_private_prisons_bill_immigration_detention#transcript
The idea that one can self-regulate, self-manage, with drugs, is a fallacy. We all have to get off of all drugs. For me the problem is caffeine.
Yipes!
Don’t know if this idea helps, but Crimes Against Humanities has no statute of limitations.
Lifted in the Mid-60’s, in part thanks to the efforts of the Simon Wiesenthal Center.
And why do these hospitals still exist and why does the mental health system still exist?
And why are their research articles published on this forum which still in one way or another try to legitimate it?
We need to abolish the ~Mental Heath~ system and the ~Mental Health~ concept, not be inventing ways to repackage them. And we don’t need to be seeing articles about such.
There is no such thing as ~Mental Illness~ or ~Mental Health~. For the most part the reason these fallacies exist is to perpetuate denial of abuse.
And in large measure ~Autism/Asperger’s/Neurodiversity~ work the same ways.
Even if we cannot agree on everything, we need to develop a strategy for fighting back, for hitting targets of opportunity, and for baiting and provoking the enemy.
The ~Autism/Asperger’s/Neurodiverstiy~ assessment mostly seems to exonerate perpetrators.
Like for John Elder Robison, Temple Grandin, Alex Plank, and for Nick Walker, this seems to be the main reason that they go along with it and promote it.
It is easier to believe in something, even total fiction, if it lets one evade the fact that they have been subjected to horrendous abuses. These abuses usually will have come before the assessment, but the the assessment itself ushers in whole new kinds of abuses. But the fiction created by the label, and the fantasy that that will lead to real answers, as Sami Timimi explains, are far easier to stomach that to see the abuses themselves and how much of one’s life opportunities have been destroyed by that.
Not a Cartesian film like memory of events, but a Heideggarian Always-Already Thrown experience of what has been done, and what the tremendous costs have been.
The assessment lets one stay in denial. And to stay true to the OP, the Nick Walker program promoting the concept of ~Neurodiversity~ is just another form of extreme child abuse.
If the center does not hold and the American Experiment with Electoral Democracy has failed, then Gun Barrel Communism.
Recovery is a scam, just a way of further abusing the survivors of abuse.
Anti-Depressants and other psychiatric drugs should not even exist.
Articles which suggest that there could ever be a reason to ingest such drugs should not exist.
There is no such thing as ~bipolar~ or ~mental illness~
YES!
~Mental Health~ and ~Autism Spectrum~ work on people who have already been marginalized, or who are still children. It is all about the scapegoats of the middle-class family, and about the ~self-reliance ethic.
It is all about POWER. And restorative justice starts when survivors decide to stop complying and enabling, but instead to stand up for themselves and others.
One place to start is by reforming the US inheritance laws. In most other industrialized countries you cannot disinherit a child. If you try, or if a will is challenged, it will be equal share inheritance. Of course this is late in the game, but it will change how people look at family scapegoating. In the end, the child wins and the senile-suicidal testators get postmortem humiliation.
Most evangelical churches revolve around people having at least one scapegoat child. This was one of the reasons why I got involved and helped get a Pentecostal molester a conviction and long prison term.
This is also why I think we have to start with Foucault, not someone like Thomas Szasz.
YES!
I say that life coaching is a scam. But so are lots of other things. Just so long as the gov’t is not licensing, funding, or promoting it.
And really, the same goes for psychotherapy.
And it is already life and death, because this country is going in a fascist direction, wanting to kick people off of food stamps and school lunches, and wanting to make homeless internment camps, and then creating a HUGE underclass of family scape goats, via ~Mental Health~ and ~Autism-Aspergers~.
Less and less labor is needed every single day. The place where we will be converting human corpses into Nutrition Bars and Petroleum is not that far out.
We do need to make a revolution, but not in ~mental health~.
“explored respecting the fact that behavior is simply a choice?”
To me it seems that the reason this does not happen is that most of the ~Autism-Aspergers-Neurodiversity~ advocates believe that one is obliged to measure up to a broad range of social expectations.
Like one on Alex Plank’s “Wrong Planet” forum said that without the ~Autism-Aspergers~ classification, the “the parents would just think that that kid was extremely rebellious”. And then John Elder Robison says, “They don’t owe you an allowance”. And of Temple Grandin, her whole pitch is about conformance with the ~Self-Reliance Ethic~.
Of Naomi Klein, listening to her in just the one statement, it does sound like she does see being a target of school bullying as being at least a factor in defining one as having such a ~condition~, and she is in effect pointing a finger at children on this ~spectrum~ in being a frustration to their parents for not being willing to play Simon Says.
And then this Nick Walker, advocating for ~Radical Neurodiversity~ and not necessarily tying it to a genetic cause, he is still targeting those who have been labeled by white coats and parents. He is just switching their lapel labels, from something which sounds negative to something which does not to him sound negative. But for your social and civil standing, his lapel label is just as bad as any other. The fact that someone would still accept a label, and attend Nicks classes, rather than responding with FU, suggests that they do not even understand the concept of social and civil standing and that they are already functioning under duress.
I say that everyone and anyone must forcefully reject these kinds of labels, and then we must protect children in school and in the home, and in the doctor’s office.
People do have different temperaments, and this is apparent in children. But the ~Autism Spectrum~ concept does come from trying to make people fit into situations, and especially from the middle-class family and from universal schooling. Going along with the ~ASD~ concept, in my view, is always a mistake. And never would Alex Plank’s stuff or Nick Walker’s stuff ever be welcome in anything I am responsible for.
Very good:
https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Autism-Unravelling-Understanding-Social-ebook/dp/B00F2H3EP4/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=constructing+autism&qid=1569886659&s=gateway&sr=8-1
Knowing when to use violence, and knowing how to use it, are just normal parts of life. No reason survivors should ever be asked to renounce violence, or to show that they are opposed or incapable of it.
Someone who is being labeled by the ~Mental Health System~ is more likely to be in situations where they will have legitimate cause to use violence.
In opposing the legislation of Tim Murphy, it was wrong to try and appease him by making it look like violence was completely off of the table.
Those labeled by the ~Mental Health System~ are seen as deficient. Being willing to absorb abuses, or to take the position towards them which Psychotherapists advocate, is part of this problem.
I read Elaine Pagels:
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Religion-Personal-Elaine-Pagels/dp/0062368532/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=elaine+pagels&qid=1569715956&s=gateway&sr=8-1
Gut wrenching story about a son, Mark, who dies at age 6, and then the husband who dies in an accident a year later.
Mark was born with a heart problem. He had surgery on his first birthday. Then they found out that he has pulmonary hypertension. There is no cure, no treatment, and it is 100% fatal. They gave him 3 months to 3 years.
In book it comments that at age 1 1/2 Mark was not really talking.
Would this today get him an ~Autism – Aspergers – Neurological Difference~ label?
Husband Heinz said that he did not talk until age 3. Would this get him the label?
Later in bathtub, Mark utters a very complex sentence, entirely grammatically correct, explaining why he does not want to talk yet.
Elaine is surprised. Yes that would be surprising, like you are suddenly hearing from a much older person.
Is this what Hans Asperger called “The Little Professor”, one of the children he decided to keep around as he sent thousands more to be euthanized?
So Mark Pagels really does sound like some kind of a Magical Child.
7 years trying to get pregnant, then some kind of a fertility ritual. In lucid dreaming Elaine is approached by some kind of a spiritual being who tells her that she is trying to control it, and asks if she is willing to just let go and be a vehicle for what happens. She says yes.
Does this qualify as one of the announced births, like for example Isaac and Samuel?
3 weeks later she discovers that she is pregnant.
Mark not really talking at age 1 1/2, except for that exceptional sentence. Heinz not talking at age 3.
But John Elder Robison and his partner trying to force their son to talk and to read aloud. Trying to force him to play Patty Cake. Of course he refuses. But then he does start to read at summer camp, first time he had ever been away from his parents.
Then later they will send him to the Yale lab where he will be accessed as having ~Asperger’s Syndrome~.
Then later John and the boy’s mother will also be assessed, and they both have it too!
For John this marks an entire new direction for his admittedly hard life. It now explains everything.
He becomes one of the most widely read ~Autism~ advocates. John talks about the people who design and build rail locomotives, and who work for NASA, and who design the diesel engines for container ships. That really is a lot of people.
And John becomes the primary advocate for Trans-Cranial Magnet treatment.
They only wanted to have children, as John explains, because co-workers were having them. And soon the partner is bringing home pedagogy magazines.
And then Naomi Klein seems to think that you can distinguish a child who is on the ~spectrum~, because other children will play Simon Says, where as those on the ~spectrum~ won’t. They are in their own worlds, they don’t “mirror”. And she says that this is why they get bullied.
There is something seriously wrong with this picture. The concepts of Autism, Aspergers, Neurological Difference are just ways of justifying the exploitation and abuse of children and adults.
Elaine and Heinz Pagels had very interesting academic careers, lots and lots of friends, mostly colleagues and students, educated at Stanford and Harvard, and dealing with extremely high level stuff. Never trying to live beyond their means, never being influenced by Motivationalism, Self-Improvement, or Financial Literacy teachings. Never feeling pressed to keep up with anyone. Their works always had intrinsic value, not just extrinsic value. And they and their son Mark, and now their two adopted children, always have intrinsic value.
They have suffered more pain than most could bear, but it was never from some feeling that they needed to measure up to some external standards.
And never could I see that they were ever exploiting their children or refusing to take responsibility for their own choices.
Mark did seem a magical child, and that his life was to be so short seems to have been foreordained.
Naomi Klien and John Elder Robison on the otherhand, they really make my blood boil. And then the White Coats behind all this, they infuriate me beyond measure or description.
NO, we do not need any Mental Health Care Revolution or any Mental Health Revolution. We need to eradicate the Mental Health System, and to prosecute the present practitioners.
With Psychotherapy, Recovery, Life Coaching, and Motivationalism, just stop our government from being able to license these, and stop our government from being able to fund or promote them.
And it all starts by just learning to say FU.
Shutting down psychiatry would appear to have to be an all or nothing project. There is not the public will for this at this time.
But shutting down psychotherapists can be a one by one project. So long as we have clients who want to pursue it, should be quite doable. And this will change how the public thinks.
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I am totally supportive of any and all such boycotts and refusals to cooperate.
I believe that Psychotherapists can be taken down subject to clients who are willing to talk and provide affidavits.
What Freud called Transference is simply the point at which the client realizes that they have been spilling their guts, and investing time and money, into someone who just pretends to accept what they are saying. Rather, they see what has been said as evidence of defect, or of wrong thinking.
Pertaining to this new New York state āChild Victims Actā, the proponents explain how hard it has been to obtain justice, and they say, āThatās why we changed the law.ā