Tuesday, November 19, 2019

Comments by PacificDawn

Showing 1301 of 1340 comments. Show all.

  • Good question.

    One who has survived abuses quickly learns that they have to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL about talking to friends.

    It has to be restricted to those on the barricades who are putting themselves at risk, or to attorneys.

    A social and civil identity is restored by fighting, not by disclosing to non-comrades.

  • Yes, a day of reckoning,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_trial

    Psychiatry, coerced treatment, and the bogus drugs all fall within Nuremburg Precedents. And likewise, it is wrong to use mental health questionnaires, or to write or publish articles based on them.

    Otherwise it is going to be just endless debate, as new violators figure out ways to use the horrors of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy to justify their new stuff. Abusing survivors is highly profitable, and survivors having been abused before, we are easy to abuse again.

    There have to be severe criminal penalties, for the doctors, and sometimes for the parents too. And where it fits, for Foster Care Systems.

  • But no one recovers from ~Mental Illness~ because there is no such thing.

    And their path will be far more rocky if they are led to believe in ~mental illness~ ~psychotherapy~ or ~recovery~.

    Those drugs should not exist. Those who have been prescribing them should be prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity. Those who have been giving them to children should receive the ultimate penalty.

  • The idea of “healing” in the context of systemic abuse is just a scam. You don’t heal when everyone sees you as the one who is at fault.

    If they didn’t see you as the one who was at fault they would be helping you to obtain justice.

    No, they see you, just as they have always seen rape survivors, as the one who is at fault.

    Healing is just a way of surrendering to abusers.

  • Anyone who has had their legitimacy revoked, nullified, stands at risk of further abuses via efforts to break down their privacy.

    Being sent to a Psychotherapist is one of the worst.

    What it revolves around are types of abuses and delegitimation which our society is in denial about. Once you have survived these, your life depends upon privacy walls. But the tool most likely used to attack you will be the con artistry of psychotherapy.

    And gov’t agencies could try to subject you to this.

    Psychotherapy is a state operated tool used to break people down.

  • Elizabeth, the alternative to mental health, psychotherapy, and recovery is always the middle-finger. There is no reason for these things to exist, no reason for anyone to cooperate with them. They are all predatory, striking at people who have been margin alized and usually abused.

    What we need to build are groups for political and legal activism, and to help people fight back to obtain justice over past abuses, and to fight back when they are being targeted. The Mental Health and Recovery System is often coercive.

  • “I think its always been presumed that drugs taken to make people feel happier are likely to make them feel more unhappy in the long run. It’s only ‘recently’ that people have attempted to argue against this.”

    It is true that happy pills make people more unhappy long term. They aren’t dealing with their affairs, they aren’t living in their skin.

    But what is wrong is just the idea of using chemical mood alterants in the first place.

  • People have resisted this pertaining to Autism, in France. These have been mostly psychoanalysts. Now psychoanalysts are not lawyers. But at least they are not trying to ~treat autism~ via ~behavioral therapies~.

    It is the US and UK Autism Advocates, like Alex Plank, who have put pressure on France, making such ~treatments~ into a human rights issue, and also promoting neo-liberalism.

  • Trump is making war on the homeless and the poor, going after food stamps. And then talking about new programs and internment camps.

    Really, anyone who has been harmed, who has to protect themselves, is vulnerable to getting caught by the mental health system. They use the need for benefits, and the fact that someone needs to protect oneself from being further harmed. If they think they have found an easy mark, they can start with polite interrogation.

    Anyone who has been harmed, survived abuses, they need to protect themselves from follow on abuses. Privacy is a necessary first line of defense. My friend K. was taking a huge risk and a Kaiser Doctor called and had him hauled off on a Psychiatric Hold.

    There is never any such thing as ‘healing’ or ‘recovery’ in the area of systemic abuse. The abuses are still happening.

    You have only Victory, or Defeat, or total collapse and collaboration with the enemy via denial systems.

    The mental health system is that ultimate vehicle of collaboration.

    I doubted before that it could just grab someone. But yes, it is an arm of the state, never more than a 911 call away. So now I understand better how innocent people get caught in it. Or I am starting to.

    https://www.mysecuritysign.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/booby-trap.jpg

    Need to make training courses and literature and have attorneys ready to help people evade it.

    And the poor are always some of the most vulnerable.

  • Trump and the Republicans are foisting a Neo-Liberal Supply Side fantasy onto our populace. This has been going on for over 30 years now, and most people believe it. It is totally illogical, Voodoo Economics, or Faith Based Economics.

    It really will go to internment camps and biomass conversion technologies if we do not find ways to act and educate the public.

  • We need to get people to move from seeing their experience as an indicator of a need for ~psychiatry~, or for ~psychotherapy~, or for ~recovery~, but rather as indicating a history of unredressed abuse and injustice, and we all need to move for fighting back, punishing perpetrators, seizing reparations, as well as creating new life options.

    Chris Hedges, really interesting voice:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycuw9Cvh6W4

  • Psychiatry and those drugs should not exist. And those who have perpetuated this abuse should not go unpunished.

    We need to get people to move from seeing their experience as an indicator of a need for ~psychiatry~, or for ~psychotherapy~, or for ~recovery~, but rather as indicating a history of unredressed abuse and injustice, and we all need to move for fighting back, punishing perpetrators, seizing reparations, as well as creating new life options.

    Chris Hedges, really interesting voice:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycuw9Cvh6W4

  • As far as I can tell, you often have situations where the parents are jealous of their child. The child could grow up in health and free shame or stigma, and without having to prove their legitimacy. But the parents are frightened of that. They had to submit and conform to herd expectations. They are ashamed to have a child who seems not to be doing so.

    They don’t want the child to be able to exit the herd. They don’t want them to become expert original contributors in any field. So they undermine the child’s chances of educating themselves and distinguishing themselves.

    So then the child will likely end up employed by people who are also jealous of their intelligence, and who already have an axe to grind in denigrating that person.

    It is as a crystallization of such situations which the ~Autism-Asperger’s-Neurological Difference seems to arise.

  • Donald Trump’s war on the homeless:

    “Nothing Ends Homelessness Like a Home”: Advocates Slam Trump’s Attack on SF & Homeless People
    https://www.democracynow.org/2019/10/3/homelessness_california_trump_attacks_water_quality#transcript

    Trump vs. California: In Blow to Climate, U.S. Revokes State’s Stricter Auto Emissions Standards
    https://www.democracynow.org/2019/10/3/trump_admin_california_climate_policies#transcript

    As Man Dies in ICE Custody, California Moves to Ban For-Profit Prisons, Including Immigrant Jails
    https://www.democracynow.org/2019/10/3/california_private_prisons_bill_immigration_detention#transcript

  • Yipes!

    Don’t know if this idea helps, but Crimes Against Humanities has no statute of limitations.

    Lifted in the Mid-60’s, in part thanks to the efforts of the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

    And why do these hospitals still exist and why does the mental health system still exist?

    And why are their research articles published on this forum which still in one way or another try to legitimate it?

  • The ~Autism/Asperger’s/Neurodiverstiy~ assessment mostly seems to exonerate perpetrators.

    Like for John Elder Robison, Temple Grandin, Alex Plank, and for Nick Walker, this seems to be the main reason that they go along with it and promote it.

    It is easier to believe in something, even total fiction, if it lets one evade the fact that they have been subjected to horrendous abuses. These abuses usually will have come before the assessment, but the the assessment itself ushers in whole new kinds of abuses. But the fiction created by the label, and the fantasy that that will lead to real answers, as Sami Timimi explains, are far easier to stomach that to see the abuses themselves and how much of one’s life opportunities have been destroyed by that.

    Not a Cartesian film like memory of events, but a Heideggarian Always-Already Thrown experience of what has been done, and what the tremendous costs have been.

    The assessment lets one stay in denial. And to stay true to the OP, the Nick Walker program promoting the concept of ~Neurodiversity~ is just another form of extreme child abuse.

  • YES!

    ~Mental Health~ and ~Autism Spectrum~ work on people who have already been marginalized, or who are still children. It is all about the scapegoats of the middle-class family, and about the ~self-reliance ethic.

    It is all about POWER. And restorative justice starts when survivors decide to stop complying and enabling, but instead to stand up for themselves and others.

    One place to start is by reforming the US inheritance laws. In most other industrialized countries you cannot disinherit a child. If you try, or if a will is challenged, it will be equal share inheritance. Of course this is late in the game, but it will change how people look at family scapegoating. In the end, the child wins and the senile-suicidal testators get postmortem humiliation.

    Most evangelical churches revolve around people having at least one scapegoat child. This was one of the reasons why I got involved and helped get a Pentecostal molester a conviction and long prison term.

    This is also why I think we have to start with Foucault, not someone like Thomas Szasz.

  • And it is already life and death, because this country is going in a fascist direction, wanting to kick people off of food stamps and school lunches, and wanting to make homeless internment camps, and then creating a HUGE underclass of family scape goats, via ~Mental Health~ and ~Autism-Aspergers~.

    Less and less labor is needed every single day. The place where we will be converting human corpses into Nutrition Bars and Petroleum is not that far out.

    We do need to make a revolution, but not in ~mental health~.

  • “explored respecting the fact that behavior is simply a choice?”

    To me it seems that the reason this does not happen is that most of the ~Autism-Aspergers-Neurodiversity~ advocates believe that one is obliged to measure up to a broad range of social expectations.

    Like one on Alex Plank’s “Wrong Planet” forum said that without the ~Autism-Aspergers~ classification, the “the parents would just think that that kid was extremely rebellious”. And then John Elder Robison says, “They don’t owe you an allowance”. And of Temple Grandin, her whole pitch is about conformance with the ~Self-Reliance Ethic~.

    Of Naomi Klein, listening to her in just the one statement, it does sound like she does see being a target of school bullying as being at least a factor in defining one as having such a ~condition~, and she is in effect pointing a finger at children on this ~spectrum~ in being a frustration to their parents for not being willing to play Simon Says.

    And then this Nick Walker, advocating for ~Radical Neurodiversity~ and not necessarily tying it to a genetic cause, he is still targeting those who have been labeled by white coats and parents. He is just switching their lapel labels, from something which sounds negative to something which does not to him sound negative. But for your social and civil standing, his lapel label is just as bad as any other. The fact that someone would still accept a label, and attend Nicks classes, rather than responding with FU, suggests that they do not even understand the concept of social and civil standing and that they are already functioning under duress.

    I say that everyone and anyone must forcefully reject these kinds of labels, and then we must protect children in school and in the home, and in the doctor’s office.

    People do have different temperaments, and this is apparent in children. But the ~Autism Spectrum~ concept does come from trying to make people fit into situations, and especially from the middle-class family and from universal schooling. Going along with the ~ASD~ concept, in my view, is always a mistake. And never would Alex Plank’s stuff or Nick Walker’s stuff ever be welcome in anything I am responsible for.

    Very good:
    https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Autism-Unravelling-Understanding-Social-ebook/dp/B00F2H3EP4/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=constructing+autism&qid=1569886659&s=gateway&sr=8-1

  • Knowing when to use violence, and knowing how to use it, are just normal parts of life. No reason survivors should ever be asked to renounce violence, or to show that they are opposed or incapable of it.

    Someone who is being labeled by the ~Mental Health System~ is more likely to be in situations where they will have legitimate cause to use violence.

    In opposing the legislation of Tim Murphy, it was wrong to try and appease him by making it look like violence was completely off of the table.

    Those labeled by the ~Mental Health System~ are seen as deficient. Being willing to absorb abuses, or to take the position towards them which Psychotherapists advocate, is part of this problem.

  • I read Elaine Pagels:

    https://www.amazon.com/Why-Religion-Personal-Elaine-Pagels/dp/0062368532/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=elaine+pagels&qid=1569715956&s=gateway&sr=8-1

    Gut wrenching story about a son, Mark, who dies at age 6, and then the husband who dies in an accident a year later.

    Mark was born with a heart problem. He had surgery on his first birthday. Then they found out that he has pulmonary hypertension. There is no cure, no treatment, and it is 100% fatal. They gave him 3 months to 3 years.

    In book it comments that at age 1 1/2 Mark was not really talking.

    Would this today get him an ~Autism – Aspergers – Neurological Difference~ label?

    Husband Heinz said that he did not talk until age 3. Would this get him the label?

    Later in bathtub, Mark utters a very complex sentence, entirely grammatically correct, explaining why he does not want to talk yet.

    Elaine is surprised. Yes that would be surprising, like you are suddenly hearing from a much older person.

    Is this what Hans Asperger called “The Little Professor”, one of the children he decided to keep around as he sent thousands more to be euthanized?

    So Mark Pagels really does sound like some kind of a Magical Child.

    7 years trying to get pregnant, then some kind of a fertility ritual. In lucid dreaming Elaine is approached by some kind of a spiritual being who tells her that she is trying to control it, and asks if she is willing to just let go and be a vehicle for what happens. She says yes.

    Does this qualify as one of the announced births, like for example Isaac and Samuel?

    3 weeks later she discovers that she is pregnant.

    Mark not really talking at age 1 1/2, except for that exceptional sentence. Heinz not talking at age 3.

    But John Elder Robison and his partner trying to force their son to talk and to read aloud. Trying to force him to play Patty Cake. Of course he refuses. But then he does start to read at summer camp, first time he had ever been away from his parents.

    Then later they will send him to the Yale lab where he will be accessed as having ~Asperger’s Syndrome~.

    Then later John and the boy’s mother will also be assessed, and they both have it too!

    For John this marks an entire new direction for his admittedly hard life. It now explains everything.

    He becomes one of the most widely read ~Autism~ advocates. John talks about the people who design and build rail locomotives, and who work for NASA, and who design the diesel engines for container ships. That really is a lot of people.

    And John becomes the primary advocate for Trans-Cranial Magnet treatment.

    They only wanted to have children, as John explains, because co-workers were having them. And soon the partner is bringing home pedagogy magazines.

    And then Naomi Klein seems to think that you can distinguish a child who is on the ~spectrum~, because other children will play Simon Says, where as those on the ~spectrum~ won’t. They are in their own worlds, they don’t “mirror”. And she says that this is why they get bullied.

    There is something seriously wrong with this picture. The concepts of Autism, Aspergers, Neurological Difference are just ways of justifying the exploitation and abuse of children and adults.

    Elaine and Heinz Pagels had very interesting academic careers, lots and lots of friends, mostly colleagues and students, educated at Stanford and Harvard, and dealing with extremely high level stuff. Never trying to live beyond their means, never being influenced by Motivationalism, Self-Improvement, or Financial Literacy teachings. Never feeling pressed to keep up with anyone. Their works always had intrinsic value, not just extrinsic value. And they and their son Mark, and now their two adopted children, always have intrinsic value.

    They have suffered more pain than most could bear, but it was never from some feeling that they needed to measure up to some external standards.

    And never could I see that they were ever exploiting their children or refusing to take responsibility for their own choices.

    Mark did seem a magical child, and that his life was to be so short seems to have been foreordained.

    Naomi Klien and John Elder Robison on the otherhand, they really make my blood boil. And then the White Coats behind all this, they infuriate me beyond measure or description.

  • NO, we do not need any Mental Health Care Revolution or any Mental Health Revolution. We need to eradicate the Mental Health System, and to prosecute the present practitioners.

    With Psychotherapy, Recovery, Life Coaching, and Motivationalism, just stop our government from being able to license these, and stop our government from being able to fund or promote them.

    And it all starts by just learning to say FU.

  • I am totally supportive of any and all such boycotts and refusals to cooperate.

    I believe that Psychotherapists can be taken down subject to clients who are willing to talk and provide affidavits.

    What Freud called Transference is simply the point at which the client realizes that they have been spilling their guts, and investing time and money, into someone who just pretends to accept what they are saying. Rather, they see what has been said as evidence of defect, or of wrong thinking.

    Pertaining to this new New York state “Child Victims Act”, the proponents explain how hard it has been to obtain justice, and they say, “That’s why we changed the law.”

  • In my view the drugs make it so that the client no longer has a core, they have no center, they have no learned ability to maintain a center.

    So it is rather like a doctor prescribing for someone crystal meth.

    My Pentecostal Molester was on psychiatric drugs, and under the care of psychotherapists.

    I told the DA that “learning to live in one’s skin is a life long project”. And I explained that because of this mental health care, this guy had not even started this. But also, because of his church, they operate on professions of belief and professions of allegiance. So these also work against living in one’s skin.

    So I gave examples of people, maybe they have a new job that they don’t want to lose. Or maybe their spouse has threatened divorce, or CPS has taken their kids away.

    So sure enough, they go to church, they come forward and they make all the professions. They are Saved, and they will not drink or use any more.

    But still, they don’t really feel saved. And then they are told that their salvation status depends upon proselytizing, and that they have to call out the name of the idol, all the time.

    It isn’t really faith, it is fatalism.

    And then say they do lose the job, or the spouse leaves, or the children are not going to be returned. Usually that will mean that they are primed for even deeper depths of drinking and using, as they believe now that they are beyond salvation.

    One woman talks about her brother, died while homeless. “Well, he stepped forward many times, to be cured of his addictions. But now I have to wonder whether he was Really Saved or not.”

    I would go on to try and convince the DA and the Court how dangerous this church and its outreach ministry were, and that the three daughters were having to oppose it in coming forward with the truth.

    If they had not done this, they might well have become targets for the outreach ministry. And others will not come forward unless they see that survivors are believed and that there are consequences for perpetrators.

  • I am totally supportive of any and all such boycotts and refusals to cooperate.

    My issue has been that most on this forum are advocating Psychotherapy, Recovery, and often some version of Psychiatry and belief in the idea of ~Mental Health~. I will have not have collaboration with such people.

    I believe that Psychotherapists can be taken down subject to clients who are willing to talk and provide affidavits.

    What Freud called Transference is simply the point at which the client realizes that they have been spilling their guts, and investing time and money, into someone who just pretends to accept what they are saying. Rather, they see what has been said as evidence of defect, or of wrong thinking.

    Most people, if they can see where the therapy goes, and see how their therapist thinks, I believe that they will abandon therapy. And all the more so if they see some chance of getting compensation money for having been duped and taken advantage of.

    Pertaining to this new New York state “Child Victims Act”, the proponents explain how hard it has been to obtain justice, and they say, “That’s why we changed the law.”

    This is the way injustice has to be looked at, not as something to find some way to dissociate from, and then say that such is morally superior.

    ***************

    Dr. Thomas Lemke: “Biopolitics: Current Issues and Future Challenges” he teaches at Goethe University, Frankfurt am Main
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPTz0-cWDgs

  • Trying to make a child play Simon Says is an extreme example of what Alice Miller called, Inflicting the Narcissistic Wound. But this is the example Naomi Klein uses to try and characterize what is this ~Autism-Spectrum~.

    It is basically a parent who wants and needs to have a child mirror them, rather than the other way round.

    In his book #3 John Elder Robison writes of seeing this done to his son “Cubby” on a daily basis. Cubby, rightly so in my view, refused to ever respond. Roibson does not ever indicate that he saw anything wrong about it. Rather he sees it as confirmation that his son is afflicted with

    ~*~ ASPERGER’S SYNDROME ~*~

    Robison is one of the primary advocates for the Transcranial Magnet.
    https://assets.culturaldistrict.org/culturaldistrict/system/assets/13864/original/alt_48442.png

    Naomi Klein seems to see it the same way, as she says that not mirroring is why such children get bullied in school.

    I would also point out that it is well known that Sweden is the country which has worked the hardest and longest to eliminate school bullying.

    I would also point out that many American Idiots are trying to discredit Greta Thunberg by focusing on the claim that she has ~~Asperger’s~~. I believe that somewhere in the Right Wing Nonsense Media someone must be pitching this.

  • So while I recognize the work that R.W. and others are doing to get rid of the drugs, I also note that most involved in this work are highly compromised, as they are supporting Psychotherapy and Recovery.

    So I say that at this time the new thing to do is to start using lawsuits to shut down some Psychotherapists.

    We can use this to show that the whole thing is a con.

    This will not eradicate it, but it will be a big improvement, and a big help in still going after psychiatry and the drugs.

    So lets make some specific plans for shutting down some psychotherapists, and then we will carry them out.

  • Psychiatrists are state licensed medical abusers. We abolish psychiatry by prohibiting our government from licensing it.

    Psychotherapy is a bit different, we can still prohibit the government from licensing it, but that will not eradicate it. Still very worth doing.

    Life-Coaching is not licensed. But we can still sue when there are abuses, and in general we can educate people so see what is wrong with Self-Improvement.

  • Its not just a matter of being angry. Its a matter of having life chances seriously disrupted and curtailed, while at the same time having no legitimated biography.

    The Middle-Class Family supports Capitalism, and all of this is based on an adaptation of Original Sin.

    So no matter what, you have no one to blame but yourself, and this applies in all situations.

    If you want someone to blame, then you are supposed to have children of your own.

  • Lets start shutting some psychotherapists down.

    1. Angry and credible client, kept a journal would help
    2. People who can get to court house and do sidewalk picketing and leafleting at the guy’s office.
    3. If we have to just pick someone to target, look for someone who has already been sued.
    4. Otherwise look for some of the followers of Richard Schwartz to go after.

    If this is not bullshit, then I don’t know what is:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuJLv98ks-I

    This Schwartz certifies his own people? So I ask people, then do they also have state issued therapy licenses?

    How about the European Psychoanalysis Schools, also need US state licenses?

  • Psychiatry and Psychotherapy both run on the same bogus model of cognition. They want you to believe that life is hard because of past abuses as represented in your memories. And of course you see that that opens the door to feel good teachings.

    But in fact, the effects of childhood exploitation and abuses is simply lost social opportunities, lost educational and career building opportunities, lost opportunities at building intimate relationships.

    Your film of events memory is important to understanding these loses, but it in and of itself is not the issue. Psychotherapy and Psychiatry propagate falsehood to further their own interests.

    If you are abused in ways which our society is in denial about, as it is still with most all familial child abuse, then you no longer have a biography, you no longer have a public identity, you become an object for scorn, ridicule, and pity.

    But you do not even see this unless you try and take back the public honor which the abusers have denied you. When you try and take it back, by vanquishing foes, then you will see it, you will know what you have lost, when you find out how hard it is to take it back.

    We need to shed this denial system and start putting some psychotherapists out of business!

    If someone is seeing a psychotherapist, disclosing personal stuff, and they get handed an urgent looking piece of paper which has the name and picture of the therapist, and directs them to a web site, they will take it.

    And then if they find an affidavit of a former client, and legal complaints, and descriptions of their therapy sessions, where the client claims that they were being duped, then it is unlikely that a present client will continue with therapy.

    Some will want to sue. So once we get the first complainant, most therapists could be run out of business. And the more the news spreads, the more the complaints and the more the new lawsuits.

    That denial system which is psychotherapy will be discredited. And few will put any stock into it, or into its way of interpreting people’s pasts. As it is now, people are being duped into accepting this honor free fantasy utopia, one which has never existed and never could exist. But it lets abusers off the hook and it propagates the kinds of Self-Reliance Ethic based abuses which are at the core of Capitalism / Middle-Class Family.

  • Closing down Psychiatry or getting rid of the drugs seems to be an all or nothing proposition. Not possible until attitudes change.

    But putting some psychotherapist out of business is more of a case by case situation.

    I say that the entire enterprise is wrong and amounts to exploitation. But as it is just talk, we can’t outlaw it between consenting adults. All I want is to discredit it and terminate the government licensing.

    So you might agree with me that it is all bad. Or you might say that there are good therapists and there are bad therapists.

    Doesn’t matter really, all we need to do is get judgments against some of them, that will change the public perception of them. It is quite doable. It starts with an angry client. If we have to pick a particular school, the Richard Schwartz and his Internal Family System’s Therapy.

    Perceval and the Red Knight
    http://pre15.deviantart.net/25e6/th/pre/f/2011/276/2/a/perceval_and_the_red_knight_by_epictones-d4bqgwu.jpg

  • Psychotherapy takes people into a land of denial. It is land of denial because it is a land without honor.

    If you try to restore your honor, you will see than how hard it is. Then and only then do know how much has been taken from you.

    But psychotherapy is based upon the denial centered premise that it is morally superior to relinquish restoring your honor.

    Which would you rather say, “I spent the last 20 years in therapy so that I could surface my repressed pain from childhood abuses.”

    OR

    “I used to believe in Psychotherapy, now I see it as a scam, a con game, so for the last 20 years I’ve been putting psychotherapists out of business and educating the public about them” ?????

    Honor is the key! Honor, public honor, is everything.

    Perceval and the Red Knight
    http://pre15.deviantart.net/25e6/th/pre/f/2011/276/2/a/perceval_and_the_red_knight_by_epictones-d4bqgwu.jpg

  • I agree with you 100% oldhead. But as Frank states, it does not seem to be happening.

    Pyschotherapy takes people into a land without honor, a land of denial. If you try to restore your honor, you will see how hard it is. But if you don’t even try, then you continue to live in denial. You do not understand what has been done to you. Likely you will end up becoming a therapist yourself.

    Shutting down Psychiatry is still way out there. Putting some Psychotherapists out of business is within reach. I believe that if you have a good client who has kept notes, you could probably get a judgment against most of them. As for using that to shut them down and stop them from operating anyplace else, lets say that that is very close to my specialty.

    Mostly just have to get to their clients.

    Which would you rather say, “I spent the last 20 years in therapy so that I could surface my repressed pain from childhood abuses.”

    OR

    “I used to believe in Psychotherapy, now I see it as a scam, a con game, so for the last 20 years I’ve been putting psychotherapists out of business and educating the public about them” ?????

    Honor is the key! Honor, public honor, is everything.

    Perceval and the Red Knight
    http://pre15.deviantart.net/25e6/th/pre/f/2011/276/2/a/perceval_and_the_red_knight_by_epictones-d4bqgwu.jpg

  • reformism and abolitionism, yes indeed.

    What forced people’s hands was just than any slavery was emboldening the pro-slavery people. So violence broke out in Kansas Territory, and then the slavery people demanded a Slave Code for the West. When they did not get this they walked out of the Democratic Convention.

    You see how Psychiatry continues to advance itself, and it does this with Psychotherapy, Recovery, and with this PTMF manual.

    Eventually something will happen to force people’s hands, and then abolitionism will win!

  • Case Management is already used in Homeless Moral Reform Programs. It is a type of ritual humiliation. Kind of like Psychotherapy but without any pretext of being on the client’s side. Its a way of breaking down privacy, and a way of backing up the harmful actions of previous abusers.

    Kind of like interrogating a rape survivor, and telling her that her food and shelter depend upon being open and truthful with the interrogators.

  • Trump seems to be poised to set up Homeless Internment Camps, and that will likely also be linked to a ~Mental Health~ justification. They will use this to con people into accepting case management and into disclosing personal affairs, FYOG of course.

    A digital asylum is like being an out patient.

    This forum must stop promoting Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Autism/Aspergers/Neurodiversity.

  • It is immoral and unethical to ever promote any version of Psychiatry, its Drugs, Mental Illness / Mental Health, Psychotherapy, Recovery, Autism/Aspergers/Neurodiversity.

    R.W.’s books have never violated this.

    For those who want to stop stupid debates with people who take advantage of the marginalized and vulnerable with their ideas about Therapy, Recovery, and Autism, PLEASE JOIN AND BE READY TO ACT:

    https://openingoftheway.createaforum.com/

  • Reason Number 11 that Psychiatry Lives On:

    Most people believe in Psychotherapy and the Recovery Movement, as well as Evangelical Religion, and as well as in Autism-Aspergers-Neurodiverstiy.

    These are based on mostly the same premises as Psychiatry, and in some quarters they have merged with it. They support Neo-Liberal Capitalism and the Middle-Class Family, just like Psychiatry does.

    So if you support these, you are still supporting Psychiatry, Diagnostic Labels, and Forced Treatment, though probably just for the more recalcitrant cases.

  • I believe that a lot of the increase in the number of adults getting psychiatric disability money is simply the continuing advances in industrial and information technology, reducing the size of the work force, and then the lack of other public support benefits, such as UBI. And then with the Clinton-Gingrich welfare reform, that pretty much means that those on welfare will eventually end up on psychiatric disability of one kind or another.

    Need to go to UBI.

    Need to terminate the mental health system.

  • I say that it is not possible to remake psychiatric care, and that no one should be trying to do this.

    It is all based on exploitation of the patient. Even psychotherapy and the recovery movement are based on this exploitation.

    It is about creating and perpetuating an economic underclass of family scapegoats. And it does this by deploying religiously derived concepts, like the Work Ethic and Original Sin.

    So rather, people should be steered into progressive political activism.

    As it is now, psychiatry, therapy, and recovery are all about forcing people to live without justice, to live without honor.

    The strength of R.W.’s books, besides showing how horrid these drugs are, is that never does he say a single word to support therapy or recovery. He does not ever endorse these, though he does not attack them either, as he wants to make his point about the drugs.

    It is only on this forum that we see this interest in perpetuating psychiatry, psychotherapy, and recovery.

  • Greta Thunberg
    https://www.democracynow.org/2019/9/11/greta_thunberg_swedish_activist_climate_crisis#transcript

    So they ask her about her ~Asperger’s Syndrome~. She calls it her Secret Power, and she says she has a tremendous ability to concentrate, and she talks about how she likes to do this whenever she learns about new things.

    So to listen to her talk, that’s all it is.

    So yes, I have to admit that when I first saw her in the news, she did strike me as a bit odd. But this is far less so today now that she is more accustomed to being in the news, and a bit older.

    But to go from this to saying that she has some ~syndrome~ ~disorder~ or ~neurological difference~, that is just medically enforced conformity. It is medical abuse.

    She probably doesn’t want to fight the labeling, just because she doesn’t want to initiate avoidable conflict. She probably doesn’t yet know how harmful the labeling can be, or its origins. And it is still probably something which has shaped the relationship she has with her parents.

    Adults can read and talk to whomever they wish, and they can make their own decisions about that they find.

    But the lives of minor children are still orchestrated by their parents. They are not really in charge of their own affairs. So to target children, and through the school system, for a kind of medical and pseudo medical abuse, telling them that they have some kind of ~neurodiversity~ ~radical neurodiversity~ or ~neurodivergence~ I say that this falls within Nuremberg president and that it should be prosecuted as such.

    Even though this is just words, its an organized program, and its comparable to that electrical forehead device and to the transcranial magnet. It encourages parents who are inclined to medically abuse their child.

  • What is being put forth as utopia is Neoliberalism, and that is a movement of the Right.

    Democratic Socialism comes in stages, and it is always mitigated by what people will vote for.

    You only get Gun Barrel Socialism in places which have never known of Democracy, or when the democratic processes completely break down. These are places like USSR, China, Cuba, Venezuela.

    But with decades of Right Wing media and racism being used to fan the flames of hate, democratic processes are now being strained to the breaking point in both the US and the UK.

  • There is nothing of utopia in the thinking of the Left.

    It is really simple, if you want to maintain a middle class, and if you want things to get better instead of worse, then you vote for the Left.

    If you want our society to divide into the very rich and the very poor, and to have bogus sciences like mental health used to support this, then you vote for the Right.

    If we can more to the left by rational arguments and the ballot box, this will be very easy.

    If we cannot, if people listen to right wing disinformation news, then we will have a Civil War, and then eventually a government which appropriates some of the ideas of the left, but which still maintains power by the gun barrel.

  • Slaying the Dragon, the political left has nothing to do with utopia.

    Utopia is the name of a work by Thomas More.

    But the idea probably comes from Plato’s Republic. I though don’t think even Plato ever though that his Republic idea could or should be implemented. It was just a rhetorical device, something to get people to think about human societies.

    Ray Bradbury called Plato’s Republic the first work of Science Fiction.

    And this is more where you find writing about utopias, but these tend to be critical works, like Brave New World. They are critical of the utopia, making it into a dystopia. They want us to look at what is already true of the world we live in.

    As far as the political left suggests a utopia. In the Manifesto, it just calls upon us to continue the French Revolution. And that is hardly a utopia, more a bloody struggle. They critique the present bourgeoisies order and do a very good job of explaining what the problems are.

  • I just sent K. this message:

    Sorry to see that you are under pressure
    I can see it in you so clearly. Seems like you are cornered.

    But know what, everyone gets manic sometimes. Seems that way. The idea of ~mental illness~ is bogus nonsense.

    We all need mindfulness meditation practices. We need to be able to feel our feelings, and this takes real work. Sometimes it will feel like your bones are being eaten in acid. But still have to do it, feel your feelings all the time.

    I feel that you have been lured into accepting this mental health interpretation. How many years it goes back I do not know. I am sorry that that has happened.

    Mental Health, Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery, they all lead no where except to your own death. This is what they are designed to do.

    You are going to have to do what you need to do. I cannot say anything to help. Seems like you are cornered.

    Disability money, just like Welfare, is not intended to provide for the needs of those who have not. These things are intended to regulate those who have not. The money is totally insufficient. It really is just a series of ritual humiliations, it keeps the rest of the population in line.

    Decades ago, LGBTQ activism must have been about Civil Rights. But it sounds like maybe today this ( LGBTQ Organization ) is more about leading people down this Mental Health, Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery path, an adjunct of the County mental health. This is something I have to consider, I do not know for sure, but I have heard things which suggest this.

    Good luck to you at this time of high stress!

  • Just to add to my above narrative, I think my friend K. has just been lured into going down this ~mental health~ path of interpretation. But it does seem to work like a self fulfilling prophesy. Needs that ~mental disability~ money to pay bills to keep his vehicle going, needs to go along with the unemployability premise, to get that money, and also to stay in the good graces of his sister who controls his trust fund.

    But going along with the ~mental illness~ concept years back, he has today got himself boxed into a corner.

    Stinks.

    I don’t really want to be talking to him much. And I don’t want to influence what is happening now.

    But I am going to email him and admonish him about the need for everyone to have mindfulness meditation practices, and to be feeling their pain daily. And it can feel like your bones are being eaten in acid.

    And I am going to also write to him, “Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and Recovery just lead you down the path of your own destruction.”

    K. has had a hard life. Sexual orientation will have been part of this.

  • Want to tell a brief ~mental health~ story. Mentioned this person months back. K. He is homeless, lives in his truck.

    Believes in psychotherapy and psychiatry, believes that he has ~Bipolar 2~

    In a way he gains approval by going along with this stuff, comes across as one of the smart and compliant types.

    Family scapegoat, wealthy family, but his inheritance money is in trust fund run by his sister.

    Wants to go back to home state to finish college. But that is not happening, and he is in his mid 50’s.

    Had been usually employed as security guard. did that well.

    But now he finds himself unemployable. Wants to go on ~mental health~ disability. No one could live indoors on that little money. But he could live in his truck.

    Kaiser doctor refused to sign papers, then had K. taken away by police for psych hold.

    LOL!

    I think K. was lured down this ~mental health~ road, over years. Going along with it gets him approval, from doctors, and from police.

    May have bad family experience due to sexual orientation.

    But very averse to the legal redress view.

    Now he is kind of cornered. Very jumpy. I guess we call that Manic. But in my view, most people are manic sometimes.

    I would say that as he is now, he is unemployable. But that need not be for very long. He is under a great deal of stress. As I have seen, most people that try to live in motor vehicles cannot make it work that long.

    So he is under stress. As I see it, everyone needs meditation disciple, to stay grounded. Not for escape, escape is not good. But to feel their feelings.

    But K. also believes screwy stuff, like this big conspiracy which would have to involve dozens of people and have a multimillion dollar budget, to tamper with his cell phone, steal stuff from him, going on for years and yeas.

    I told him to keep a log of the incidents, and also to assign to each incident ( unscrewing his vehicle’s lug bolts so wheels come off ) assign a certainty factor, and explain why you have this level of certainty.

    He liked the idea, but has not done it.

    Just like in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, it takes deliberate effort to tell fact from delusion.

    I feel for him, but I have no interest in talking to people like him further. It goes no where.

  • https://www.amazon.com/Path-Everyday-Hero-Important-Challenges/dp/0976220202

    Perceval gave the rogue Red Knight one chance to surrender. He didn’t, so Perceval trained hard and the next time they met, Perceval put a javelin though his forehead.

    With the other bandits, he would pin them down, rip off their helmets and put a knife to their throats. They either yielded and let him take them to King Arthur, or he cut their heads off. Most yielded.

    This is the Hero’s Journey. But today? Nothing like this happens because Perceval and all of the other knights are all doing weekly sessions with psychotherapists.

  • Teresa Kirchner, thinking about my reply over the weekend, I want to clarify.

    As far as ~Mental Health~ and ~Psychiatry~ I don’t think there is anything to discuss. It already falls within the Nuremburg precedents, so it should be prosecuted in International Court. The post war German constitution provides for this, and this is done.

    I say that those who have been drugging children should get the maximum penalty.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_trial

    With ~Autism – Aspergers Neurological Difference~, pretty much the same.

    Now as far as the Recovery and Salvation Industries, we cannot eradicate these. Adults can consent to talk with and meet with whom ever they want. But as it stands now or government is driving it. This we must prohibit.

    Then for Psychotherapy, cannot eradicate it, it is just talk.

    But, as it is a con game, we must stop our government from licensing it. And we must require court supervision when done on a minor, as it is used as a child abuse service.

    Now, for the specific example you posted, a guy being unlawfully at a school and causing a problem. Two issued, handing him fairly because that goes to who and what we are, and protecting the school.

    ~Mental Health~ is bullshit. Should not use that.

    Psych hold only keeps the guy away for a couple of days. Does not do much.

    So if police warn him, next step is to take him to interrogation cell. This happens anyway if you say the wrong things to your psychotherapist.

    At some step they can search his car and home. They can request and get court restraining order. So if he does not comply, court can lock him up for some time. And then it can go up from there.

    Police know how to diffuse people who just want attention. Court order will do the job. So know benefit in trying to treat it as ~Mental Health~. Can protect school and be fair with suspect.

  • “Hillman was an ideological polytheist.”

    Yes, and others have pointed out how similar Freud is to religion and original sin. And Psychotherapy is just a sugar coated version of the same thing.

    Okay, so I like most of what you and Hillman are saying. But still, if he supports Psychotherapy, I still see that as preying on survivors. They should not be conned into disclosing their private affairs to someone who is not actually a comrade. That harms them.

    Books, lectures, fine, but not Psychotherapy sessions.

    I’ll read this carefully
    http://scott.london/interviews/hillman.html

    Thanks!

  • Well, others have been involved in anti-psychiatry longer than I.

    The best option seems to be that if someone is breaking the law, the police have to either advise, cite, or arrest.

    Treating it as ~mental illness~ does not help. It is just a way of taking away the party’s personhood.

    But also, some laws are too harsh.

    As far as ~neurodiverstiy~ I am 100% opposed to that, it is just a way of promulgating the concept of ~Autism~ and that is simply a way of legitimating the abuse of children and adults.

    We could have more humane jails, but I would be opposed to anything which promotes the idea of ~mental illness~ or ~psychotherapy~.

    I encourage 100% resistance to all ~psychotherapy~ and ~recovery~.

  • Getting people to disclose their personal matters. Scientology w/ E-Meter. Psychotherapy wo/ E-Meter. But E-meter was always just a gimmick.

    Presumption is that once you have disclosed everything, then you are a ‘Clear”. Not sure that Psychotherapy has a comparable term, but the idea is that you are moving away from “woundedness” and to “recovery”. But in fact nothing in your objective life has changed, its just that you now have no privacy. You are being talked into compliance with social norms.

    What makes Richard Schwartz even more Scientology like is that they are making all your issues into pathology. These “voices” or family role entities, they are all pathology which you are to be relieved of. Cult of disclosure.

    People who want to live with honor would never go along with Psychotherapy, and especially not with Richard Schwartz

    A project to put some psychotherapists out of business will depend up angry clients. But all things being equal I want to go after Richard Schwartz first.

    So he does his own certifications? So do his people also hold state issued licenses?

    How about Freudians, Jungians, Reichians, and Lacanians, do they hold state issued psychotherapy licenses? Will they likely have malpractice insurance?.

  • “we are spiritual beings being held back by physical and emotional pain, and that the answer is reexperiencing this pain to release it”

    Yes, and you are expected to be doing this, so that you can better comply with the needs of the organization, and better submit to the hierarchy.

    Psychotherapy always becomes like this, but some kinds maybe more than others.

    These internal voices of the Schwartz school, they are just the stuff that Scientology would expect you to somehow process and get rid of.

    Schwartz and Scientology do not understand that your anger, your pain, these are your map to the truth. They do not care about this, they only care about normalization.

    And so in the Scientology old writings there are fierce indictments against Psychanalysis.

    They don’t like any of this stuff, because THEY want to drive it themselves. Scientology is working a very similar con to what Psychtherapy and Psychiatry are.

    https://files.ondemandhosting.info/data/www.lronhubbard.org2/files/styles/tl_large/public/ron-series/profile/profile_chronology_50_l-ron-hubbard-e-meter-demonstration.jpg

  • Expressing anger to a psychotherapist is very risky. You could easily end up handcuffed to a table in a police interrogation cell.

    Most of the people I have encountered who express anger to their therapists are actually engaging in impotence building exercises. It becomes understood in their sphere that their anger means nothing. And this is the main goal of therapy, total neutering.

  • Danzig666, I want to ask you a question about James Hillman.

    Recently I saw a reference to:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385489676/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i7

    That doesn’t really sound like Psychotherapy.

    The reason I read the Dick Russell book was that I wanted to see if Hillman every renounced psychoanalysis and psychotherapy.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/161145462X/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i9

    It is a huge book. But when I got it I realized that it only covered the first portion of Hillman’s life. Other volumes seem not to be written yet.

    Without psychoanalysis and psychotherapy, you don’t have sessions, you don’t have a client disclosing their affairs to a non-comrade, you don’t have transference, you don’t have abuse.

    It would be just a guy giving lectures to groups and writing interesting books.

    Did Hillman ever renounce psychoanalysis and psychotherapy?

    Thanks

  • Oldhead I strongly disagree with you. Therapy and recovery are what provide the cover for Psychiatry and the DSM.

    The common presumption is that anyone who is not a happy camper obviously needs therapy and recovery, as if these were not just ways of turning things back onto the survivor.

    Overall, if we want to fight the system, we have to find the best attack points. I do not claim to have all the answers here, and lots of people are doing good work. But I still feel that the front best to open is in trying to put some psychotherapists out of business, that being helped along by “Transference Abuse” lawsuits.

  • Our current Neo-Liberal / Neo-Fascist order depends upon delegitimating a huge portion of the population, to justify them living in poverty. This is done in part via the Mental Health System, but also via the Autism-Neurodiversity System, and also via the Recovery / Salvation Industries.

    All related to the old bogus science of social Darwinism.

    And as such, childhood is getting more and more medicalized. Many parents want to be driving their child to doctors. Now there are more such doctors, kinds that don’t need to be fooled, that represent new justifications that they can find in the child themselves.

    So we need to find ways to fight this.

  • “All head honcho shrinks know it’s safe to scapegoat us for every bizarre crime that happens. They know we aren’t dangerous. So they keep doing it.”

    Rachel777, I agree with you. This was why I so objected to the apologetic and appeasing stance taken by some trying to oppose the Tim Murphy Bill.

    Need to make people see that they are not by nature defective, they have been in situations where they were being used.

  • Oldhead, we have to find where the best attack points are. No different from any other Resistance campaign.

    People are doing good stuff, but lots of people are using mental health as a cover, or they are providing cover for mental health.

    I go back to where I started, campaigns to put some psychotherapists out of business. And were it totally up to me, it would focus on Richard Schwartz and his “internal family systems therapy”, as that is the closest to Scientology.

  • Oldhead, we have talked about barricades and trenches. Well thinking about this, I see a broad swath of issues.

    Robert Whitaker and others are doing a very good job exposing how horrid these drugs are. But most of the public still seems to see them as necessary. And of those who take them, they seem to have the same appeal as street drugs. So it is taking time, and eliminating them will have to happen at a national level.

    Of the Recovery Movement and the Salvation industry, I would say that the most we could do is discredit them, and get the government out of them. As it is today, most people seem to believe in them.

    Of Psychotherapy, all I would try to do is get it delicensed and discredited. Some restrictions requiring court supervision when it is being done on a minor. Child abuse has to be suspected. But I think the most promising thing is that people are suing psychotherapists for “transference abuse”.

    So I see Psychotherapy as a big contact point. Whether one ends up with psych drugs or a psychotherapist seems to depend on who is paying.

    Kaiser and the County try to limit access to their psychotherapists ( GREAT ), but what they substitute is drugs. And them some parents will take their child to be drugged.

    But Psychotherapy is still something most people believe in.

    So I want to start promoting lawsuits against psychotherapists, and then following up to put them out of business. I believe that most psychotherapists could be taken out, if one could just get past them to their clients.

  • There is certainly no ~recovery~ from ~mental illness~ as there is no such thing as ~mental illness~.

    As far as ~recovery~ from addictions, well people who have addictions do so for a reason. People who have lives where there are not built in structural problems and a history of abuse, tend not to have addictions. This is so true that some are completely rejecting the concept of ~addiction~.

    ~Recovery~ has turned into the new version of the religious concept of Original Sin.

  • There is no such thing as ~schizophrenia~ or any other ~mental illness~. So you could not have ~recovered~ from such.

    At some point people do seem to see the light, in that they reject all facets of the ~mental health system~ and the ~recovery movement~.

  • People need to be able to get politically engaged, so that they can direct their anger to where it will do some good.

    It is because people do often not have these channels that they are at risk of ending up in the psychotherapist’s office where they will be further abused.

  • “I am not mentally ill” personalizes it. And it sounds like maybe then some people are “mentally ill”, and it sounds like you are being cornered and threatened with the label.

    Better to say “there is no such thing as mental illness”, and then to deal with any ~mental health~ professionals harassing you.

  • Recovery is a gimmick invented to make the survivors of abuses and injustices responsible for those very abuses and injustices.

    There is no such thing as ~mental illness~ so no one ~recovers~ from it.

  • Oldhead, the present order depends entirely upon getting those at the margins and those at the very bottom to accept this ~recovery~ ~rehabilitation~ ~salvation seeking~ model instead of justice. People who have nothing and who have lived the hardest of lives are pressed to accept the idea that it is all their fault.

    Without this things would quickly change.

    We have ballot boxes and the courts, but those at the bottom are pressed to never even consider using them.

    The whole thing is based on a deeply rooted socioeconomic agenda. It is to regulate how poor people think.

  • Suppose I were to start telling children, “We don’t look at it as Mental Illness, that is out of date. I look at it as a Brain Chemical Difference. We don’t advocate drugs, and we don’t see it as a defect, disorder, or illness. We encourage people to celebrate that Brain Chemical Difference.”

    And I am not talking here consenting adult to adult. I am talking about doing this with children, still having their affairs orchestrated by their parents, and likely subjected to schools which use bullying to socialize. So it is being done with people who are already stigmatized and already desperate for relief and for answers.

  • Teresa Kirchner, I agree with you only to a most limited degree. Getting people to see that they do not need or want these experts is a first small step. But these other things you speak of, I would call them the no-diagnosis therapy and recovery approach. We do not need or want these either. What they amount to is teaching people to live a so called life that is without honor. There is no redress in them, no justice.

    Psychiatry and the medical model make the experience of injustice into a medical project.

    But this healing, therapy, and recovery model make the experience of injustice into a self-improvement project. It pathologises the evolutionarily developed instincts to fight back and to penalize foes.

  • How do we provoke resistance to Monarch eTNS ?

    If we were able to get people to talk about it, I feel confident that the push for this on a case by case basis would be coming from a conjunction of the parents and their doctor.

    FDA approved or no, we can still treat it as child abuse.

    Suppose we encourage children to resist, like keep journals, maybe take the device and turn it in to us, and to write their feelings about it. And we find ways to back them up when they do these sorts of things.

    And same basic posture applies to Nick Walker’s “Radical Neurodiversity Program”.

    How would we respond if doctors and parents were using this on children?

    https://melbournelacanian.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/geradhalter_schreber.png

  • I strongly disagree. Recovery is a gimmick invented to make the survivors of abuses and injustices responsible for those very abuses and injustices.

    Redress for Wrongs, not Recovery and Religion.

    Tangible Results, not Therapeutic Release.

  • PacificDawn’s Elixir of Health, Wealth, and Happiness!

    All it costs is $300 per treatment. But each treatment does as much good as a whole year of weekly psychotherapy sessions.

    This is how a treatment works, I drill a 1/16″ diameter hole in your skull, and then I inject 2 fluid ounces of my magical elixir, which is derived from citrus juices.

    *******************************************************

    Do you find the above scenario implausible?

    Do you think my treatments would do as much good as a whole year of weekly psychotherapy sessions? And do you consider your position to be based a rational or an irrational belief?

    Do you think my treatments are non-harmful? And do you consider your position to be based on a rational or an irrational belief?

    Do you consider psychotherapy to be beneficial to the client? And do you consider your position to be based on a rational or an irrational belief?

    Do you consider psychotherapy to be non-harmful to the client? And do you consider your position to be based on a rational or an irrational belief?

    CA Gov. Gavin Newsom, Attorney General Xavier Becerra announce legal action on immigration
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3volw6DXXw

  • It is mostly psychotherapy, recovery, and salvation seeking which stigmatize anger. They do not admit this, of course not. But they don’t take it as real and legitimate.

    They want you to vent histrionically, they want you to give up your power.

    People who wield power effectively do not vent histrionically. No, they plan, they strategize, they find comrades. And when they do say something, people take notice, because they know that something will happen.

    But when someone takes to psychotherapy, recovery, or salvation seeking, this potential power is lost.

    CA Gov. Gavin Newsom, Attorney General Xavier Becerra announce legal action on immigration
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3volw6DXXw

  • Someone Else, what I would say is that psychotherapy and psychoanalysis have always been cons. They depend upon the same sorts of circumstances which would make one susceptible to psychiatry and drugging.

    They are not actual alternatives because they are not redress for wrongs. They don’t restore the civil and social standing of the survivor. Rather, they are just new ways invented of abusing the survivor.

    And you know as well as I how Freud betrayed his original patients, the 14 female hysterics.

    If he were to have gone the other way, he would have had to have become a lawyer, instead of a psychoanalyst.

    It is exactly the same with all of the American varieties of psychotherapy, no redress, just turning it back onto the survivor.

    If you want to say it sometimes does some good, well yes, eventually the survivor realizes that psychotherapy is pointless.

    CA Gov. Gavin Newsom, Attorney General Xavier Becerra announce legal action on immigration
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3volw6DXXw

  • So I would suggest never going along with any ~mental health~ or ~Autism/Asperger’s/neurodiversity~. If they have made you feel that you need to deny that it applies to you, then they have already got you.

    And likewise, knowing when to use violence, and knowing how to use it, is just part of life. No reason you or I should be pressed to disavow it.

  • Local authorities go far out of their way to try and keep the homeless classified as ~mentally ill~ and on ~psychiatric medications~, and they try to build places to house them with on-site ~mental health services~.

    Some of this is the legacy of the George W. Bush HUD, which came up with this doctrine, “Housing First”. The idea was that someone might need mental health treatment, and they might need vocational training, but for these to be effective, they best be housed. So there has been federal money for housing the homeless. And in this sense it is a progressive move.

    But what is also true is that all of this housing is centered on mental health services, funneling people into accepting a ~mental health identity~.

    One of the service providers who does this is this Abode Housing Services.

    They have turned the Housing First idea, into away of promoting ~mental health~, and painting the picture that poor people are poor because they have ~mental problems~.

    And really, no one even tries to oppose this. The homeless want the housing. Generally a ~mental health~ approach does mean a certain degree of tolerance. And local officials, more than anything, they want the poor and the homeless tethered.

  • 19 States, D.C. File Suit Over Trump Administration’s Rules That Would Allow Immigrant Children To Be Held Indefinitely
    https://khn.org/morning-breakout/19-state-d-c-file-suit-over-trump-administrations-rules-that-would-allow-immigrant-children-to-be-held-indefinitely/

    California sues over Trump plan to hold immigrant children indefinitely
    https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/California-to-sue-over-Trump-plan-to-hold-14378991.php

    Gov. Newsom, AG Becerra react to President Trump’s national emergency declaration 2/15/19
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAQrRVXA1jw

    AG Becerra, Governor Newsom, and California Leadership, Hosts Press Conference on Census 6/27/19
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyIF0eaoxP0

    Gov. Gavin Newsom and Attorney General Becerra are expected to announce legal action on immigration 8/16/19
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBjX1P2Hzww

    Gov. Gavin Newsom, Attorney General Xavier Becerra announce legal action on immigration 8/26/19
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3volw6DXXw

    JEWISH PROTESTERS FACING SIX MONTHS IN JAIL HAVE FIRST COURT DATE
    https://www.neveragainaction.com/press/jewish-protesters-facing-six-months-in-jail-have-first-court-date

  • California, 18 other states sue over Trump policy on indefinite detention of migrant children

    SACRAMENTO, Calif. — California opened another front in its legal battle with the Trump administration over immigration policies on Monday as officials announced a federal lawsuit challenging a new rule that allows indefinite detention of migrant children and their families.

    The 19-state lawsuit, which was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California and is co-led by Massachusetts, was unveiled by Gov. Gavin Newsom and state Attorney General Xavier Becerra, who criticized the president for ignoring a court settlement agreement that limited detention of children to 20 days.

    “No child deserves to be left in conditions inappropriate and harmful for their age,” Becerra said Monday. “The actions by this administration are not just morally reprehensible, they’re illegal. Children don’t become subhuman simply because they are migrants.”

    https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/news/nation/california-other-states-sue-over-trump-policy-on-indefinite-detention/article_8d7b74e5-036e-51af-b1f2-293c118c419a.html

    https://www.neveragainaction.com/

    Illinois joins lawsuit on migrant child protections rollback

    https://www.wifr.com/content/news/Illinois-joins-lawsuit-on-migrant-child-protections-rollback-558363631.html

    R.I. detention center inmate dies at hospital

    https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20190826/ri-detention-center-inmate-dies-at-hospital

    20 attorney generals sue to protect safety of immigrant children in civil detention
    https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/virginia/20-attorney-generals-sue-to-protect-safety-of-immigrant-children-in-civil-detention/291-9e9f5397-2466-41ef-bb81-a25f4a567677

    Today, Sacramento California
    Gov. Gavin Newsom, Attorney General Xavier Becerra announce legal action on immigration

    “…this administration has taken an action which we intend to prove in court is not permissible by law…”

    ***** Watch This Video ******
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3volw6DXXw

  • The mental health system and the recovery movement try to make you personalize things. Shouldn’t ever say “I am not mentally ill”.

    Rather,

    “There is no such thing as mental illness. The idea was always just a way of delegitimating people. And I believe that it is better to find non-violent solutions to conflicts. But that does not mean that I am a pacifist. Revolutionary struggles do often prove necessary.”

  • Even if this Monarch eTNS does absolutely nothing, it is still a ritual humiliation which the child is being subjected to. And I would not be at all surprised if they next try to start using it for ~Asperger’s~ ~Autism~ and ~neurological difference~ too.

    Likely it will always be the parents who are really driving this. They might consider the child as an embarrassment. So they want the child “fixed”. Or they might see that finding fault in the child gives them a moral authority over them, gives them a social identity, gives them something to talk about with their friends.

    Not unlike the machines of Moritz Schreber
    https://melbournelacanian.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/geradhalter_schreber.png

  • I am not aware of any sustained opposition to the mental health system, not where I am.

    Mostly the mental health system seems still tied to the middle-class family and the self-reliance ethic.

    So commonly, suburbanites might start taking their child to a psychotherapist. I think that should have to be reported as suspected child abuse, so it can be under court supervision.

    Or another example is that a poor person, or a homeless person, will get detained by police. Because there is really no justification for making an arrest, they get sent to the county hospital for a psychiatric hold.

    Before they are released they will have been drugged, diagnosed, and given a prescription for more drugs.

    It seems to be a means of control and regulation. As from now they will always be keeping white coat appointments.

    And most important is that the party come to believe in this idea ~mental illness~. It is very much like how they get children to believe in ~Autism~ ~Asperger’s~ and ~neurological difference~.

    So in all these cases there is no resistance whatsoever.

    We see people posting here that it is only because of his meds, that their son gets to live at home, otherwise he has to go to the homeless shelter.

    And then our county’s mental health and substance abuse people have all day long meetings with religious outreach groups, and they talk about Recovery, and our mental health people profess allegiance to this. And the religious people are so proud of themselves, getting involved in recovery, besides just offering salvation.

    It sucks, totally. Zero resistance. The most that ever happens is people argue for compassion, in making sure that the needy get their therapy and drugs. Local government wants to house the homeless, but it is always integrated with onsite mental health services. And that means that people will not be seen as people, they will be patients.

    Trenches suggests a war of attrition, mobile break thru’s not likely.

    We cannot approach that this way, trying to argue with psychotherapists and psychiatrists. I say what we have to score public victories, by putting some out of business, and even getting some incarcerated. But we also have to go after the families. Right now they can do this to a child, and there is no consequence.

    And then barricades is suggestive of the Paris Commune, a Temporary Autonomous Zone. Nothing short of a tank could safely drive through a barricade.

    https://thefunambulistdotnet.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/barricade-paris-1945.jpg

    But that was a time when that Louis Napoleon III had started a war with Germany and lost it and got captured. So central authority had broken down.

    Here in the US I think it possible that central authority could break down over the Immigrant Detention Centers, and those who might act to liberate them. The country does seem rudderless, as Trump just throws out one extreme idea after another, not having committed to any actual plan for anything.

    Another way is communes. Try to build up a group. The people have agreed to some things, and they take care of each other. And they engage in political activism.

    It is socially a Temporary Autonomous Zone. Legally though it is like everywhere else, and the people do stay lawful.

    Eventually there should be ways to make legal reforms. Much progress in the US today has been just the result of sustained campaigns of strategic lawsuits.

    Otherwise I am not seeing much progress. But in the US, politics is still coded by race, and so I do see these immigrant issues as being underreported on in the news, and as very important.

    For myself I would like to become bi-national, spreading my time between the US and a second home in Mexico. Another culture, another language, it gives me a new life.

    Oldhead, I value your opinions, your learning, and your experience. Where do you think we can push to make some progress, and doing this how?

    I am involved with numerous political struggles right now. For one thing I am trying to take down a faction of local government which is overtly using racism and violating voting rights laws, to bolster their real estate profiteering.

  • Going back before my time some, I had thought that suicide attempts were what landed one in a mental hospital.

    Cordelia, close friend of the protagonist, she is the one who exposes the crazy world of denial that the family is. She cannot take it, so suicide attempts. Eventually a mental hospital.

    https://www.amazon.com/Cats-Eye-Margaret-Atwood/dp/0385491026/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=cats+eye&qid=1566682622&s=gateway&sr=8-2

    Kate Millett
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Millett

    Talks about how women got locked in psychiatric hospitals, and she calls it the “White Coat Trip”.

    I have heard accounts of this, how women were pretty much sent by the family to mental hospitals.

    Millett calls the whole thing, “Calling 911 to win a family fight”.

    To me it does seem like this determination of mental illness, whether the parties actually understand this themselves or not, does seem to come form the family.

  • Joey, I support you to continue to advance any identity you wish. What it really comes down to is just how you understand yourself, and how you understand your relationship to the world. And no one can tell you how to make that interpretation. You have to find your own way.

    Also I would like to add, in reference to what you have posted, that I am old enough to have missed some forms of medical child abuse, but not necessarily all. The workings of all of this were already there. And I am convinced that the abuse which is autism, was there even before their was a label. What is being called autism is something which is part of human make up going back before civilization. Lets face it, not everyone is the same, and we don’t know and will likely never know of what really makes anyone the way they are.

    But today, it is clearly a much more dicey world.

    Used to be that if the parents were driving it, it was MSBP, or facetious disorder, or now just medical child abuse.

    But if it were the medical staff, it was medical malpractice.

    But what do you call it when areas of normative medical practice are there specifically to exploit and abuse children, and when these sorts of doctors are seeking out parents who are receptive to this medicalization?

    One person in the UK told me that with the old American 80-20 insurance, and no care limit or management, that was highly conducive to medical child abuse.

    It has taken a long time, but I think today people are ready to see that parents are often like this.

    I mean today, people do not have to have children. So when they do it, it is for a reason.

    I believe that it was Rollo May who first pointed this out.

  • “Yet lithium never made a dent — not for a single moment — in what was going on in my head. ”

    Why would you want some kind of a drug to alter what was going on inside of your head?

    Why for that matter would anyone want a psychotherapist to alter what was going on inside of your head?

    I think that is the original problem, what keeps the mental health and psychotherapy system going.

  • Adult to adult, the principle of free speech is well established.

    But when someone is profiting by targeting minor children, who’s lives are still orchestrated by their parents, and who might be subject to schools where bullying is used to socialize, then telling them that they have some sort of ~neurological difference~, even though that is not to be understood as an illness or a deficiency, I say that that is still organized serious child exploitation and abuse.

    There is no right to such access to children, and I say that doing it at all is serious crime. I also see protection from this as being part of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

  • The focus on trauma as being about “memories” is very misleading. And this largely comes from the conjunction of conjunction of Psychotherapy and the Recovery Movement. And unfortunately this is still being stalked about in connection with this new NY Child Victims Act.

    A better understanding would be found just by looking at how someone’s life has been shaped, the lost social opportunities, and then just at the degree of betrayal involved. If you just talk about memories, that makes it sound like physical pain and trauma. Better is just to see it as the entire context of one’s life being undermined by exploitation and betrayal.

    And of course in saying this I am aware that childhood sexual abuse is the worse, the closer the child is to the abusers.

    Exposing this requires legal redress, not just a psychotherapist who has promised confidentiality. It is not a personal issue, it is a societal issue.

  • Milan, people can get overwhelmed in trying to solve problems, and sometimes they can even be pushed to nervous breakdown.

    But this still does not mean that there is any such thing as mental illness.

    The way the mental health system works is by getting people to personalize problems, and to turn them into medical issues and self improvement projects. That way they can no longer have comrades, they are politically neutralized.

    Many types of abuses, especially childhood abuses our society is in total denial about. So once one has suffered such, they no longer have a biography, no longer have a public identity. And they won’t have this until they find ways to politically organize.

    No, there is no such thing as mental illness, there are only people who are getting stepped on in this denial based world.

  • Sen. Merkley Condemns Trump’s War Against Migrant Families as U.S. Moves to Indefinitely Jail Kids

    The Trump administration is moving to indefinitely detain migrant children and their families, reversing decades of U.S. policy. The Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Health and Human Services is expected to issue a new rule today to withdraw from a 1997 federal court settlement known as the Flores agreement, which put a 20-day limit on migrant family detentions. We speak with Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley, who made headlines last year when he was barred from entering an old Walmart where the government was detaining about 1,500 immigrant children in Brownsville, Texas.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2019/8/23/jeff_merkley_trump_administration_child_separation#transcript

    https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20190823/jewish-groups-speaking-out-against-trump-immigration-policy

    https://www.amazon.com/America-Better-Than-This-Families/dp/1538734192/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1566604084&refinements=p_27%3AJeff+Merkley&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Jeff+Merkley

    http://www.browndailyherald.com/2019/08/23/r-attorney-general-investigates-violence-protestors-wyatt-detention-facility/

    Use zoom outs plus changing back to maps to see where this is.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8926579,-71.3830859,3a,30y,288.23h,94.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCbXaI7Ui599yjIvlJQuvFA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

  • Where I live local government works with NGO’s and Churches, trying very hard to turn poverty and homelessness into a mental health issue.

    But it is not just that, it is also that they work to turn it into a Recovery and Salvation issue, and to send people to Psychotherapy.

    They try to house the homeless, but it is always with on-site mental health services. And politicians say that people have to accept that “help” or leave town.

    Most of the poor are kept on psych drugs, and also sent to Psychotherapy.

    With Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Salvation, we have spawned an enormous underclass.

  • People accept the ~Autism~ label under a condition of bullying, parental rejection, and then just pure fantasy.

    People can advance any kind of identity they want. But this does not mean that I will go along with it.

    And then when it is being done to children, there may already be legal problems with that.

    Autism, do labels and diagnoses help or hinder? – Professor Sami Timimi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzL9sAJmz54

  • We all have great challenges to face, challenges which are necessary for our survival. And made all the more so as we have been fodder for the ~Mental Health~ or ~Autism / Neurodiversity~ industries.

    But we all grow and learn the fastest when we can enter into worthy struggle, rather than just trying to fit in, known as ~healing~ and ~recovery~.

  • Awesome! Thanks for letting us know about this.

    I do have to say, I think that across the country the situation with charter schools, and with labeling, is really pretty horrible.

    Thank you for doing what you can, and please let us know if you see anything we should do.

    We don’t need to be reading article about psychiatry or psychotherapy. We need to be reading about and getting involved in political matters.

  • I don’t think we will have more people speaking out, until there is to be legal redress. Otherwise people are just letting people further harm them. I for example would suggest never talking to any kind of a psychotherapist, or in any kind of a recovery group.

    But in NY now we have this Child Victims Act. As I see it, represented by a lawyer, this is the time for people to tell all that they can.

    My greatest life objective is to see the survivors of childhood abuses steered to lawyers and political activists, instead of getting sent to psychotherapists, and to recovery and salvation programs.

    Survivors are being abused when they get lectured to about ~healing~ ~forgiveness~ ~self-reliance~ and anything which discourages legal redress.

  • We all face identity and life challenges. But we learn and grow faster when we can assert ourselves and join with comrades in worthy struggle. Live and Let Live is a denial system, “I won’t hurt you, so please don’t hurt me”, when in fact people have been hurting you your entire life.

    With each of us, ANGER MUST BE THE COMPASS. Maybe we can’t instantly act on anger, but we can use anger in developing our strategy.

    People learn and grow faster when they are finding comrades and engaging in principled conflict, than they do in the therapist’s office.

    https://www.neveragainaction.com/

    https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20190820/advocates-call-on-ri-leaders-to-shut-down-wyatt-detention-center

    https://upriseri.com/2019-08-20-never-again/

  • Trenches, for example were to be when I was helping to get a Pentecostal daughter molester incarcerated. His entire church was standing behind him. And he had an attorney who has devoted his life to making all child protection laws impossible to enforce.

    I had participated in some earlier clergy abuse matters where activists packed the court room and also protested in front of TV news cameras out front.

    Those efforts were successful.

    But when it came to my Pentecostal supported molester, none of these people were interested in attending. And it actually proved to be exceedingly difficult to get him convicted.

    The activists would not attend. Familial sexual abuse means betrayal of a child by someone who is as close as possible. These clergy abuse activists did not want to deal with that. And being religionists themselves, they were notably offended by my own anti-parental views.

    So in the court room it was just me, no one else outside of the family and those others directly impacted. No one who only represented the public.

    So there should have been trenches, convicting molesters who are still married and still financially solvent is rare, I believe.

    Here it explains that only in sexual child abuse, is it common to find defendants who have money and can afford to hire private defense attorneys.

    https://www.amazon.com/Childism-Confronting-Prejudice-Against-Children/dp/0300173113/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=childism&qid=1566506917&s=gateway&sr=8-1

    The newspapers refused to cover it. I assume this is for the benefit of the victims. But the effect is that the public and jury pools are totally in the dark.

    So getting him convicted was a fight, and I had a ‘trench’.

    Though I did not know about it, getting this NY child victims act passed, must have involved trenches.

    Stopping this new forehead electrode device will involve trenches.

    Stopping this new Radical Neurodiverstiy Program, telling children that they are neurologically different from those who do not have ~Autism~ will involve trenches.

    Stopping the use of Psychiatric Drugs, will involve trenches.

    These are there, because this all comes down to political and legal fights.

    Reforming our inheritance laws will involve a huge fight. The only state which prevented disinheritance was Louisiana, including Civil Law conventions into its state constitution. But in the mid-90’s, a reactionary movement, changed state laws. Legal scholars at Tulane vowed to overturn the new changes. But the Right then amended the state constitution. So there are already trenches.

    Each time one of these issues lands in my lap, I see it as the Burning Bush.

    And then here today, talking about Violence Against Women Act


    And Trump quietly, this past April, rolled back the definition of what domestic violence is. It took us a very long time to move away from the judicial definition of domestic violence, towards the much more comprehensive view of what domestic violence means, you know, talking about emotional abuse and verbal abuse and so much more. It was a very long, comprehensive list of what that is, and it took years to get there. And as of April, it was rolled back to just one sentence.

    And so, the Violence Against Women Act provides funding for indigenous communities so that they can continue to educate and work with people, with victims of all sorts of crimes — sexual assault, rape, domestic violence. And it’s a much-needed act that is used to help keep our people safe.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2019/8/22/mark_trahant_christine_nobiss_mark_charles#transcript

    I think this is all a whole bunch of trench fights, and that it is very relevant to psychiatric and sexual abuse survivors. It all gets down to attacks on personal legitimacy, and the middle-class family is one of the most prevalent abusers.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2019/8/22/mark_trahant_christine_nobiss_mark_charles#transcript

    And then someone else is being brought into our county hospital by police, psychiatric hold, and they will be drugged. Before they are allowed to leave they will have been given a diagnosis and a prescription for more drugs. And most people will accept these drugs gratefully.

    No one is protesting outside the office of that Psychotherapist, and no one is protesting outside of our County Hospital.

    There are places for trench fights all over. There are legal and political battles underway continually.

  • Once people finally see the con which psychotherapy always is, then they can move into the realm of legal and political action. Just look at the new Child Victims Act in NY, 500 lawsuits already.

    And in British Columbia those who have survived a ~dysfunctional family~ to a lawyer, to make sure that they are not disinherited, not a therapist or a recovery group.

    And then Civil Law countries, it is not even necessary to have a lawyer.

  • R.I. attorney general has interviewed more than 30 witnesses in Wyatt Detention Facility probe
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/rhode-island/2019/08/21/attorney-general-has-interviewed-more-than-witnesses-wyatt-detention-center-probe/ixmIc0vQXw06b463g7iu6M/story.html

    https://www.abc6.com/story/40945287/ri-attorney-generals-office-to-give-an-update-on-wyatt-incident-investigation

    What is the full history of these detention centers? When where they built and for what stated purpose? And then, how have they been used since?

    Seems like it is probably a Republican Spoils System.

  • Tina, I agree with what you have said above.

    We get very few threads speaking from a legal perspective, instead from a therapy – recovery perspective.

    Over 500 Lawsuits Already Filed Days After Child Victims Act in New York Goes into Effect
    https://www.democracynow.org/2019/8/21/child_victims_act_biaggi_niou#transcript

    My greatest dream is to live to see the day when the survivors of childhood abuses are sent to lawyers and political activists so that their public honor might be restored, instead of to therapists and to recovery and salvation programs where there are only further forms of abuse.

    Doors were opened with R. D. Laing, and with D. G. Cooper, and with Alice Miller, but none of these were actually able to walk through these doors themselves.

  • Well, depression and suicide attempts increase when someone is using alcohol and street drugs too.

    But targeting vulnerable groups for bogus medical practice falls within the Nuremburg Precedents. So those giving out the drugs should be getting prosecuted in the international court. And it is generally understood that it is wrong to even use the research data from the people who give out these drugs.

    We should be hearing from things being done by attorneys to prosecute perpetrators, and to seize reparations for survivors, not articles about bull shit medical practices.

  • Don’t want to support the idea of ~mental health~, don’t want to ever turn the experience of injustice into a self-improvement project.

    The alternative to the ~mental health~ industry is simply the middle-finger.

  • Look, I will concede that this PTMF is a kind of attempt at anti-psychiatry, similar to David G. Cooper.

    And he did still seem to have an anti-consulting office, do anti-sessions, and collect anti-fees.

    And it does sound similar to David Smail. His web site and online book are being rebuilt right now.

    Okay, but this stuff is all coming from way back. And PTMF does sound more like Philosophical Counseling, or Life Coaching.

    But we don’t need any alternative to DSM. All we need is the middle finger.

    Right now in the US we have a burgeoning underclass. For the most part it has been created by Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, and by the Autism and Neurodiversity industry. It plays into the needs of the middle-class family too, the need to find ways to medically abuse children.

    So you can write a book about power, and teach classes about power. No objection to that. But the problem arises when it becomes psychotherapy, taking advantage of naïve people who will confess their affairs to a therapist sitting in the arm chair across the room from them. That therapist is not a comrade, not in anyway. They are a state licensed thought enforcer.

    We need people to reject drugs, psychotherapy, and recovery programs. Otherwise we will continue to make no progress.

  • Comrades in the trenches, not in the therapist’s office.

    We all have great challenges to face, challenges which are necessary for our survival. And made all the more so as we have been fodder for the ~Mental Health~ or ~Autism / Neurodiversity~ industries.

    But we all grow and learn the fastest when we can enter into worthy struggle, rather than just trying to fit in, known as ~healing~ and ~recovery~.

    The Good Fight
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J17FtHTx6FU&list=PL14665A6C8FD18BA6

  • Comradeship out on the barricades, not sitting in the therapist’s office.

    We all face identity and life challenges. But we learn and grow faster when we can assert ourselves and join with comrades in worthy struggle. Live and Let Live is a denial system, “I won’t hurt you, so please don’t hurt me”, when in fact people have been hurting you your entire life.

    https://www.neveragainaction.com/

    https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20190820/advocates-call-on-ri-leaders-to-shut-down-wyatt-detention-center

  • The reason the mental illness myth persists, is that many go along with it. No different with Autism.

    Suppose I show up at Nick Walker’s group. He asks me what my favorite color is. I say, “blue”.

    Then he asks the boy next to me and he says, “yellow”.

    So I am not sure if Walker has taken the idea of radical neurodiverstiy as far as Bonnie has, saying that it does not need to be tied to genetics.

    Maybe the second boy is just responding to me. But nevertheless, as Bonnie explains it, that boy and I have to be neurodivergent from each other, as well as neurodivergent from she, from Nick, and from everyone else in the group.

    So who gets into the group? Suppose Walker does not have room to take us both, so either I get in, or the yellow boy gets in.

    Well what it would probably come down to is just who has the parents that really want us in that group. Maybe my parents find me to be an embarrassment, and they think that this group would help me to be less so.

    Or maybe yellow boy’s parents have accepted that he has autism (making them child abusers) and they think that the group will help him.

    Hard to say.

    But one thing is clear, AUTISM IS ABUSE. There is abuse before the label is applied, there was abuse before they even had the labels.

    And I know that what I read decades abo applies, the one whom they see as being a future shaman is removed from his parents, and places under the care of some adult shaman.

    Autism is a kind of abuse which strikes right at your presumed humanity. The concept is abuse, the treatments are abuse, and it is all an abusive response to abuse.

    The only remedy is just learning to live, learn, grow, and then to find places to fight back.

  • As NeoLiberal Capitalism reaches its natural crisis, we have an increasing portion of the population just shut out.

    This is what the Mental Health / Psychotherapy / and Recovery segments work to hide, by legitimating that this segment of the population is defective. It all serves to legitmate a huge underclass.

  • As I am understanding, one of the main trains of thought from the later Foucault, is that the state used to have to brandish the threat of execution in order to control people. But now, very rarely does anyone do anything very serious. So the state does not have to brandish the power of execution any more. All it has to do is withhold the permission to die.

    I mean, isn’t this what psychotherapy is really about, getting you to believe that there are no foes to vanquish, there is no issue of public honor to be regained, and just to go on living in the very small social space which the abusers have left? And so isn’t it right to say that it is not uncommon for psychotherapy to lead to suicide? We have the case of Matthew Warren, 27yo, the youngest son of Saddle Back Church founders Rick and Kay Warren. Kay was hysterical because a “psychiatrist abandoned Matthew” in the hospital. And Rick saying that Matthew had had “The best psychiatrists, the best psychotherapists, and the best prayer warriors in the world.”

    I listen to that, and I don’t think very many could have survived it.

  • https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Truck-Drives-Through-Protesters-Outside-Rhode-Island-Detention-Facility-544384541.html

    These guards in the detention centers, you know what they must be doing. I am sure that they’ve got other uniforms folded up and stashed away, like at the bottoms of their lockers. When these internment centers are liberated, these guards will already be long gone. If anyone tries to stop them, they’ll just say that they work at Walmart or Burger King, something like that.

  • Mental illness is just an idea invented to delegitimate a portion of the population.

    After Toxic Psychiatry 1991, Peter Breggin wrote Beyond conflict : from self-help and psychotherapy to peacemaking 1992. Drawing from Foucault he explains that the original reason which psychiatry was invented was to come up with ways of arresting homeless men who were panhandling but not otherwise breaking any law.

    Psychiatry and Psychotherpy are just ways of getting inside someone’s head and then delegitimizing them.

    And the reason this in in hyperdrive today is simply because of the dictates of neo-liberal capitalism.

    So I say we must eradicate the entire mental health system, and that we must use whatever means are necessary in order to do this.

  • But it is still coming out of a ~mental health~ or ~therapy~ context. And it assumes that people will be discussing their affairs.

    Where as for example, if the party went to an attorney, the first thing the attorney would say is “Stop Talking About It”.

    And it is being called a “Conceptual Alternative to DSM.”

    Well the conceptual alternative to DSM is a lawyer to bring the matters into civil court.

  • Yes, Sera, I do think we need to look at the whole thing as oppression. But it is not the mental health system in isolation. It is Capitalism and the Middle-Class Family, and then being backed up by the mental health system.

    And by oppression I mean colonial oppression. And that only works when people internalize and accept the oppression.

    So we need to look closely at how people are collaborating with the oppressors.

  • Phoebe, to restore the social and civil standing of survivors, what is most important are victories, holding perpetrators accountable.

    Activists in this arena, notably one Shari Karney, had long ago figured out that what it comes down to are civil and criminal statutes of limitations.

    Excellent Movie:
    https://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Trust-Shari-Karney-Story/dp/B00005R5EQ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Melissa+Gilbert+shattered+trust&qid=1565997517&s=movies-tv&sr=1-1

    And SOL’s tracked state by state:
    http://sol-reform.com/

    And then recent NY State SOL reform just going into effect, interesting discussion:
    https://www.democracynow.org/2019/8/15/new_york_child_victims_act#transcript

    Speaking from my own vantage point, as good as this all is, it is still mostly hitting institutions, like the Roman Catholic Church.

    What it still very rarely impacts is the Middle-Class Family. For one thing, that is not really such a deep pocket. Maybe there are still some legal hurdles, not sure. But I think mostly it is just that our society is not ready to face it yet.

    I know that locally when they do jury selection for child molestation cases, and they survey prospective jurors, what they get is totally different from what experts say is true. Its like no one will publicly talk about being molested. It does not exist anywhere in their extended families, and for 80 prospective jurors.

    And so this public silence, it does discourage other survivors from coming forward, and it makes it harder to get convictions.

    In the Lyle and Erik Menendez trial interviewed jurors said that “No father would do that to his sons”.

    But now, Lyle and Erik having been in prison for 30 years, we have a letter which Erik wrote a year before the killings, which documents what was happening and agrees with what they had said in court.

    If tried today, it is unlikely they would get murder 1, probably just manslaughter.

    Locally, child sexual molestation cases have a much much higher rate of hung juries, compared with other types of prosecutions. There are specialist defense attorneys who have devoted their lives to making it as difficult as possible to enforce any child protection laws. They have studied family conflict and they have learned how to turn it back onto the one who was molested. And they pander to anti-government and anti-feminist sentiments in the jury pool.

    And then since our society is in such denial, many of the jurors arrive at the court house with their own set view. The evidence will not sway them.

    I know that this will change.

    But here, talking about Psychiatric Reforms, New Diagnostic Manuals, Psychotherapy Reforms, and Recovery Programs, is all pointless. It leads us in the wrong direction, because none of it will ever restore the public social and civil standing of survivors.

    What we should be talking about are the legalities, the strategic law suits and the pending legislation, and the current high water marks.

    Here, explains how in the 1970’s, Feminism brought incest to the surface. But in the 1980’s that got converted into Recovery and Therapy, so it was thus politically neutralized.

    https://www.amazon.com/Rocking-Cradle-Sexual-Politics-Happened/dp/0201624710

    There have yet to be that many victories over the Middle-Class Family, but here was one:
    http://www.vachss.com/guest_dispatches/excerpt_battle_11.html

  • Yes, Sera, I do think we need to look at the whole thing as oppression. But it is not the mental health system in isolation. It is Capitalism and the Middle-Class Family, and then being backed up by the mental health system.

    And by oppression I mean colonial oppression. And that only works when people internalize and accept the oppression.

    So we need to look closely at how people are collaborating with the oppressors.

    I want to return to this now briefly, obviously you can use whatever drugs you want and live whatever way you want.

    I’m not talking about seceding from society and living on top of a high mountain. I’m talking about how to restore the social and civil standing of survivors. And so this is about public perception.

    Anytime anyone does anything which amounts to collaboration with the ~mental health system~ or with the ~autism industry~ it hurts.

    And so I don’t intend to come across and an intolerant extremist. Rather I’m interesting in staking out a position which will discredit the idea that those who have had their lives derailed should:

    1. Be put on mood altering chemicals
    2. Be sent to disclose their affairs to psychotherapists

    Rather, I want people to see that there are actual injustices which need to be redressed.

  • “SEN. ALESSANDRA BIAGGI: I mean, that fact alone is just remarkable and shows you what is possible when you actually do fight for the things that you know are right, and what the law can do. And so, this law is something I campaigned on. It’s something that is personal to me. I am a child sexual abuse survivor. I spoke very briefly about it in my campaign video, but I had not really spoken out as publicly as I did when I stood up on the floor of the New York state Senate in support of the bill.

    One of the most important reasons why I spoke up about it is because silence and shame are surrounded by abuse. And the trauma that it inflicts upon individuals, and the loneliness and the darkness that can really encapture your entire being if you stay silent, was something that I was done with. I am 33 years old today. I was 31 years old when I spoke out against what had happened to me. And I really did think I was going to go to my grave with this inside of me. And something happened in my life that really just propelled me to speak about it. From that point forward, I really have not only felt liberated, but felt like one of the things I could do was use my voice so that other people who had experienced this could also understand that they, too, could speak out against it, if they so choose.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2019/8/15/new_york_child_victims_act#transcript

    I think people are being misled if they talk about this all as “memories”. Heard something like that from Rep Elijah Cummings recently.

    Rather it should be understood as social and civil standing.

    If you say it is about memories, then all it would take is to expunge those memories then that person should be able to take their place as a cog in a NeoLiberal Capitalist System. And in some quarters you do hear it talked about like this.

    It is a person’s entire biography which makes up their social and civil standing, their public honor. Freud and his successors are just wrong in how they have approached cognition.

    And a lawsuit is an excellent way to restore social and civil standing. We should be working to open the envelop for survivor lawsuits, not talking about ~therapy~, ~healing~, ~recovery~, or ~radical neurodiversity.

  • What the PTMF people say,

    “We do need ways of grouping different kinds of experiences together so that we can think about the best way forward and all the rest of it, but the diagnostic system doesn’t do that. We are claiming that we’ve come up with something that does that better.”

    It’s not a genetic, medical, or brain chemicals approach anymore. Its a moral and character defect approach.

    It is true that what has been called ~mental illness~ is really just about ways power is being wielded. And being shown that gives one a chance to resist the ~mental illness~ interpretation.

    But this PTMF is yet different again, turned back around. It’s a new manual, but the one wielding it is still the therapist. And your therapist is not going to venture outside of their office to solve your problems.

    If you hired an attorney, they would do their best to solve your problems. By mediation, court orders, or a lawsuit, they would do their best to force other parties to yield so that you could win.

    But the therapist, no way. You are the one who comes to their office, and so you are the one they try to influence. So no matter what they pick out of this new PTMF manual for you, it is still you’re problem. You are the one who has not learned how to solve it, you are the party whom the label is being recorded as attached to.

    The analysis of power which could have been used to dismantle the ~mental health~ system, is now being used to turn it into a ~moral health and hygiene system~.

  • Rachel777, how do you feel about the Mad In Italy people talking about:

    “a clear shift from a biological and hospital-based model to a community-based system is not happening, although the path was paved a long time ago. In this context, the Italian mental health system, like the majority of them around the world, struggles with accepting a model based on principles of Recovery, which highlights individual and communal mental health needs, social determinants of emotional distress, integration of physical and psychological care and quality of life. As it can be inferred from what has just been said, we will address on MAD IN ITALY critical issues interfering with the shift to a community-based recovery system of care. In our efforts to conduct an honest and transparent alternative scientific discourse, we will post and publish material and information grounded on reliable evidence.”

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/07/why-mad-in-italy/

    I mean, where I live it is already exactly like he describes. Most poor and homeless people are already under the care of the mental health system, and that means drugged, or they are in recovery or salvation programs. This politically neutralizes the poor, as local leaders of government and finance continue to portray the poor as a social hygiene menace. And always in all of their plans, ~mental health~ is at the forefront.

    I have never seen anything in R.W.’s “Mad in America” or “Anatomy of an Epidemic” which gives any endorsement to any replacement for psychiatry, for psychotherapy, or for recovery. Rather, he masterfully shows how harmful the drugs are and how much they are the reason for the ~mental illness epidemic~. But he does not ever mention any of these other things.

    Okay, but once you clear that space, watch out. This forum is loaded with Psychotherapy and Recovery people, and also with those who want to perpetuate psychiatry.

    How about just FU to all of this stuff? The people we should be hearing from are the attorneys who are filing the strategic lawsuits. That is how we are going to finally get some justice and some chance at restoring our public honor. And it will also benefit survivors far more to be involved in such legal and political efforts, than to be discussing our affairs with non-comrades who sit in big armchairs and collect fees.

    I mean the head of our county’s mental health and substance addiction dept. brings people to all day long meetings with Born Again Outreach Ministries, and then concludes by pledging how much she and her people are committed to a “Recovery Model”. This recovery model just means that survivors are not seen as survivors of injustice, but are seen as a morally defective social hygiene menace. There will be no redress, just endless healing and recovery. I guess it goes on until the state finally gives us permission to die.

    Every year, technology advances and so less and less people are needed in the work force, but welfare recipients are pilloried. Our national politics seems to be about little else.

    Sami Timimi writes about this, Neoliberalism meaning the willingness to fund welfare running out, but that being replaced with disability money for ~Autism~ as their national health system tries to get as many people as possible ~assessed~.

    And then you look in book stores and the offering in multi-color picture book pedagogy manuals continues to increase. And then always more kinds of doctors that people can send their children too. And now a “radical neurodivergence” program to send them too. And then the proliferation of test preparation courses and private tutors.

    It’s like I told a friend recently, children, the children of the rich, they live under the whip.

    And I listen to local office holders talk about all they are going to do so that “kids will be doing well in school.”

    Children are being exploited, adults who refuse to take responsibility for their own lifestyle choices are living off of them. But never is there any justice at the end, just denial systems being perpetuated.

  • And this is also why I don’t like the trafficking in labels, even if the originators say they are harmless. I mean perpetuating the labeling by supplementing DSM with this new PTMF manual.

    And I mean furthering the Autism Hoax by calling it Neurodiverstiy, Radical Neurodiversity, and Neurodivergence.

    There is no reason to be promoting these labels, and most of all not to be applying them to minor children who are still under the care of their parents. That promotes Munchausen’s Syndrome By Proxy, now called just Medical Child Abuse. Children are really not well situated to be able to stand up to their parents.

  • Shreya, why would you assume that a therapist could be of benefit?

    This idea of ~healing~ and ~recovery~ I see as being just wrong. The issue is the trashed social and civil standing which a survivor will be living under. And this in turn makes us vulnerable to more abuses.

    So then the remedy is never ~healing~ and ~recovery~, it is punishing perpetrators and seizing reparations, as that is one of the best ways of restoring your social and civil standing, your public honor.

    We survivors, one of the reasons that we do not have social and civil standing is that when people abuse us, nothing happens to them. So then people will assume that we must have needed such abuse ( middle-class family, mental health, psychotherapy, autism industry, recovery programs, salvation religion ).

  • “I just meant that “addressing” these things requires the overthrow of capitalism, and cannot be accomplished in lieu of this.”

    That is the truth. And Capitalism only continues because it has the Middle-Class Family to psychically scar and maim children in order to make them submit to the completely bogus Self-Reliance Ethic.

  • Name your situation, there are always better ways to respond than ~mental health~ ~drugs~ ~psychotherapy~ or ~recovery programs~.

    And you don’t discuss emotional hardships with people who are not proven political comrades. No reason to do so. It would amount to just asking for problems.

  • “The essence of a political struggle into which mental healthcare is embedded shouldn’t be overlooked in any reform, however radical it may be, where a common ethic, or morality, or notion of humanism is at the forefront of our aims and actions — this, I completely agree with you, should always be what necessitates change. And I agree that a greater emphasis on the social nature of mental suffering would surely diminish much unnecessary, perhaps even harmful treatment.”

    I say we should not do anything which in anyway legitimates ~mental health~ ~psychotherapy~ or ~recovery~

    People need to be disabused of the idea that there ever has been anything like ~mental illness~ or that ~psychotherapy~ or ~recovery programs~ have ever been a good way to deal with issues they encounter.

  • Icjohnstone, maybe the ideas behind the PTMF are like those of David Smail. But he was talking about how power is used in order to help people see through the fallacy of ~mental illness~.

    This PTMF turns it around. Making up a new system for classifying people.

    And your therapist is not going to get up out of their chair, ride down in the elevator, and solve problems for you. An attorney would try their best to being other parties into line. But a psychotherapist, no. So at the end of the day, it is still the client who has a ~problem~. Not described in DSM terms anymore, but in these new PTMF terms, so it still undermines their public honor. And loss of public honor, as I see it, is always going to have been the problem in the first place.

    If we want to take down the Mental Health – Psychotherapy – Recovery System, then we must not ever cooperate with it in any way.

  • “Many people have been forcibly diagnosed as autistic”

    Well yes, that is a huge problem. I say that the “neurodiversity movement” is just completely wrong headed. It is complying with the demands of the abusers, rather than telling them off. And you will see because most of the time this is being done to them as children. They are not in a position to tell of their parents and their hired white coats.

    Sami Timimi is adamant, there are zero biological markers to what is getting diagnosed as ~Autism~.

    Its rather like making ~Autism~ into a minstrel show, and then saying that it is not harmful.

    There is no reason anyone should have to accept a ~neurodiversity Label~. It is being accepted under duress.

    “Neurodiversity” is just a way of propagating the concept of Autism, and this exists today in the service of NeoLiberal Capitalism, and because it legitimates the abuse of children and adults, while keeping the nonsensicalness of the Self-Reliance Ethic protected.

    Taking the “neurodiversity” label means that you are exonerating all perpetrators, because they have beaten you down so you feel that you have no other choice.

    If we want to take down the Mental Health System, then we must not in anyway cooperate with it. Same goes for the closely related Autism Industry.

  • lcjohnstone, why to you think anyone would consent to having this new manual used on them?

    Could it be because the mental health system has already gotten power over them?

    And then what of the trashing of this persons biography, their social and civil standing? Don’t you think this was a person once with ambitions?

    If the mental health system has impacted them, then they no longer have a legitimated biography. This will hurt them in the development of a career and with intimate relationships. ~Healing~, ~Recovery~, and ~Therapy~ do not make for a biography.

    This changes though when survivors start organizing and fighting back.

  • lcjohnstone, you seem not to have read what the promoters of the PTMF are themselves saying.

    “We do need ways of grouping different kinds of experiences together so that we can think about the best way forward and all the rest of it, but the diagnostic system doesn’t do that. We are claiming that we’ve come up with something that does that better.”

    The mental health system exists because most people, including most of us here, have cooperated with it and gone along with its rationalizations.

    Those of us who have been effected by it will only regain our social and civil standing, our biographies, when we totally reject it and punish perpetrators and seize reparations for survivor.

  • Sera, the mental health / autism system exists, as most people and most of us here have at some time cooperated with it and accepted its rationalizations.

    So you see people believing that psychotherapy gives them emotional support, even though the therapist will never be a comrade, and that they definitely have their own ideas about what is wrong with the client.

    And we have people who have been labeled as ~autistic~ making up this idea of ~neurodiversity~ rather than just saying FU.

    And we have people promoting the idea that chemicals are the way of dealing with emotions, just like the mental health system does.

    Nothing will ever change until we can unify on some positions and start fighting back.

    People have continuing problems because their social and civil standing have been trashed. The only remedy for that is imposing penalties for perpetrators and gaining redress for survivors.

    I say that we have to look at this whole thing as a case of colonial oppression, and the central component of that is always trashing the social and civil standing of the colonized, and most of the colonized collaborate with this.

  • “Many people have been forcibly diagnosed as autistic”

    Well yes, that is a huge problem. I say that the “neurodiversity movement” is just completely wrong headed. It is complying with the demands of the abusers, rather than telling them off. And you will see because most of the time this is being done to them as children. They are not in a position to tell of their parents and their hired white coats.

    Sami Timimi is adamant, there are zero biological markers to what is getting diagnosed as ~Autism~.

    Its rather like making ~Autism~ into a minstrel show, and then saying that it is not harmful.

    There is no reason anyone should have to accept a ~neurodiversity Label~. It is being accepted under duress.

    “Neurodiversity” is just a way of propagating the concept of Autism, and this exists today in the service of NeoLiberal Capitalism, and because it legitimates the abuse of children and adults, while keeping the nonsensicalness of the Self-Reliance Ethic protected.

    Taking the “neurodiversity” label means that you are exonerating all perpetrators, because they have beaten you down so you feel that you have no other choice.

    I know that drugs have been around forever. But if you say that drugs can be good, then you have no defensible line, because if your drugs can be good, then so too can the ones given to people by the White Coats.

    And besides, to fight back we need people who are going to be straight like Air Traffic Controllers, and people who will always be facing their feelings. We need for people to be able to self-regulate, not chemically regulate. So this is why I issue this call. This is also why the Black Panthers were anti-drug.

    We need people who have made the choice to be drug free.

    Recovery Programs are another way which problems get turned back onto the survivor, so the survivor ends up getting incapacitated, and believing that the only problems are the ones between their own two ears.

    The concept of recovery is just plain wrong, it is based on the idea of an innate moral defect, the modern application of the religions concept of original sin.

    People grow and learn more in politically militant environments, fighting should to shoulder with comrades on the barricades, not in the recovery circle with non-comrades, and not across the office from a psychotherapist.

    We should be tracking legal precedents and legal changes, making strategic lawsuits and helping them to win, and fighting to get laws changed.

    Just today the New York Child Victim’s Law has gone into effect. We should be following this and aiding the lawsuits.

    We should be fighting to change inheritance laws in the US, so that people cannot scapegoat their child and then back that up with disinheritance. In almost no other industrialized country, is this still possible.

    When we can win conflicts, we start to rebuild our social and civil standings, our public honor. In recovery and therapy, or using mood altering chemicals, we still support the idea that there is something deficient about us.

    We should be keeping score, in terms of conflicts with abusers which we have won, and never supporting any kinds of tune outs.

  • New York’s Child Victims Act
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/14/new-york-child-victims-act-lawsuits/2007257001/

    New York court system sets aside 45 judges to deal solely with new child sex abuse lawsuits
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/14/us/new-york-child-victims-law/index.html

    Child Victims Act takes effect with many lawsuits targeting Catholic Church
    https://nypost.com/2019/08/14/child-victims-act-takes-effect-with-many-lawsuits-targeting-catholic-church/

    Adult Victims Of Childhood Sex Abuse In New York Can Sue Alleged Abusers
    https://www.npr.org/2019/08/14/750881986/adult-victims-of-childhood-sex-abuse-in-new-york-can-sue-alleged-abusers

    Governor Cuomo Signs The Child Victims Act
    https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-signs-child-victims-act

    New York Child Victims Act Lawyers
    https://www.unionlawfirm.com/practice-areas/child-victims-act/

    https://www.sexabusesurvivorlawfirm.com/

    https://www.sexabusesurvivorlawfirm.com/childhood-sexual-abuse/

    SOL-Reform
    http://sol-reform.com/

    As good as this new change in NY is, most of the time the impact is against institutions. The majority of child sexual abuse is still perpetrated by biological parents, and this is still the least likely sort of abuse to carry penalties for the perpetrators.

    Some of it may be because of the lack of a deep pocket. But I still think it is just because ours is still a society of denial, and the anachronistic inheritance laws have got to be a part of this.

  • Trump and Ken Cuccinelli on changing our immigration rules, that is hate speech against the poor and against welfare recipients. Our economic system is failing, and all they want to talk about is our very small welfare system.

    Very few workers now feel that they have the job security to even attempt to unionize. Even existing unions often have to accept contracts expiring, because they don’t feel that they have to political clout to prevail in a conflict.

    Its globalization, but it is also just the continuing advance of agricultural, industrial, and information technology. We already produce more than we need of all goods and services.

    The cutting of progressive taxation, the giving away of tax breaks, the undermining of unionization and of worker and consumer safety provisions, all Rick Perry’s “Red State” tactics, do not do anything to increase the net size of the economy, or the number of jobs.

    Keynesianism worked well for 40 years, but it was also getting helped along by wars. Beyond a point though, the classic Keynesian goal of full employment does stop making sense.

    Welfare is clearly the next step, and that does help greatly. But it also creates a problem, in that the entire nation’s politics comes to revolve around denigrating the poor, as well as minorities and immigrants.

    As it is now, we are depending on concepts like ~mental illness~ and ~autism~ to pull lots of people out of the labor force. This is the only way that the Work Ethic continues to be upheld.

    At this point the US and the other industrialized nations really have no choice but to go to a Universal Basic Income system. Not needs tested, and providing everyone with a livable income. Most of the money simply comes from re-circulation. It is only when money gets into the hands of rich people that it stops recirculating, being used to inflate the stock and real estate markets.

  • The danger of psychosis is that you could fall prey to the ~mental health~ system.

    At least as I see it, there usually will be no other significant danger. Can’t be afraid of feeling our feelings. Need to feel our feelings on a daily and on a continual basis. This is what I do. I know that any unnecessary repression of feelings only causes problems later on.

  • ^^^^^^ We didn’t have enough feminism, it did not go far enough, and it could not sustain itself in the face of reactionary political, economic, commercial, and religious forces, and so we have seen the rise of completely reactionary ways of dealing with injustice: psychotherapy, recovery, and salvation religion.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00309SD0M/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i0

    https://www.amazon.com/Rocking-Cradle-Sexual-Politics-Happened/dp/0201624710/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=louise+armstrong+rocking+the+cradle&qid=1565739735&s=digital-text&sr=8-1

    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Social-Family-Radical-Thinkers/dp/1781687595/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=anti-social+family&qid=1565739806&s=gateway&sr=8-1

  • Eugenics was always a pseudo science, just like Social Darwinism.

    Now we have the pseudo sciences of ~mental illness~ and of ~autism~. These stigmatize the lives of vast numbers of people, and they expose the survivors to other types of medical abuses and con artistry.

    What it comes down to is that we no longer have the ability to create living wage jobs for all of these people. Even with two world wars, a cold war, a war on drugs, a war on terrorism, and seemingly now a war on immigrants, we still produce more of all goods and services than we need.

    It actually costs less to just keep them pacified somehow. And so I do fear for where this could lead.

  • Very few workers now feel that they have the job security to even attempt to unionize. Even existing unions often have to accept contracts expiring, because they don’t feel that they have to political clout to prevail in a conflict.

    Its globalization, but it is also just the continuing advance of agricultural, industrial, and information technology. We already produce more than we need of all goods and services.

    The cutting of progressive taxation, the giving away of tax breaks, the undermining of unionization and of worker and consumer safety provisions, all Rick Perry’s “Red State” tactics, do not do anything to increase the net size of the economy, or the number of jobs.

    Keynesianism worked well for 40 years, but it was also getting helped along by wars. Beyond a point though, the classic Keynesian goal of full employment does stop making sense.

    Welfare is clearly the next step, and that does help greatly. But it also creates a problem, in that the entire nation’s politics comes to revolve around denigrating the poor, as well as minorities and immigrants.

    As it is now, we are depending on concepts like ~mental illness~ and ~autism~ to pull lots of people out of the labor force. This is the only way that the Work Ethic continues to be upheld.

    At this point the US and the other industrialized nations really have no choice but to go to a Universal Basic Income system. Not needs tested, and providing everyone with a livable income. Most of the money simply comes from re-circulation. It is only when money gets into the hands of rich people that it stops recirculating, being used to inflate the stock and real estate markets.

  • Fiachra, the first one of these world wide recessions was in the 1870’s, brought on by over production and over consumption of steel, in the UK.

    It resulted in large scale unemployment. What that means is that our industrial capacity serves only very soft needs, it is in surplus.

    That surplus then either has to get used up in war, or there will be a recession.

    In the Great Depression, the auto industry shut down, and that took down all of its suppliers, and that alone brought on 25% unemployment.

    Think about it, how long does an automobile last?

    It lasts as long as you want to make it last. It was during the Great Depression that the after market spare parts industry developed.

    So when you have a large portion of our industrial capacity pitched at serving very soft needs, then you have this huge potential for instability built right in.

    Surpluses got eaten up in two world wars, plus a Cold War, a War on Drugs, and now a War on T*rr*r*sm, and a Wall and Internment Camps to stop refuges.

    But still, as technology continues to advance, our labor surplus continues to increase dramatically. If huge numbers of people did not have ~mental illness~ or ~autism~ then we would have to find living wage jobs for them. That is not easy to do when we already produce more than we need of everything.

    What had worked very well was Keynessianism, progressive taxation and spending. It expands the economy. Worked well for 40 years. Then some hostages were held in an embassy in Iran, and Christian Fundamentalists got mad at a Baptist Sunday School Teacher for trying to make Bob Jones University comply with the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and so a Hollywood Playboy Divorcee got elected.

    Since then its been gutting of progressive income tax, and so it has been boom and bust after boom and bust, while the economic position of normal people continues to deteriorate. We are going the route of most historic societies, dividing into the very rich and the very poor.

    Money obtained by cutting progressive taxation does not recirculate, it gets used to inflate the stock and real estate markets. Vast fortunes have been accumulated.

    Louisiana had been the only state which prohibited disinheritance, but in the 90’s they amended their constitution. And some states have altered their laws to be far more favorable to things they call “Dynasty Trusts”.

    But we are being told that it is immigrants who are causing us economic troubles. And we are being told that poor people are ~morally deficient~ if not also ~mentally ill~.

  • Welfare does not exist to provide for the needs of the poor, it exists to put the poor through ritual humiliations so that they will serve as a symbol of disgrace and disgust, to keep the entire work force docile.

    States have responded differently to the 1996 Clinton Gingrich Welfare Reform. AFDC no longer exists, replace by TANF. Some states use that to get people into the disability system, and I think usually it is ~mental disabilities~.

  • ^^^^^ Clarification of Above:

    Autism originates with the bogus pseudo science of the eugenics movement. It is closely related to the pseudo science of Social Darwinism.

    Hans Asperger signed to have thousands of children euthanized. Other doctors who did things like that were executed. But Asperger was able to hide his past Nazi associations.

    The concept is enjoying a renaissance today, in the service of Neo-Liberalism, and because of pedagogy manuals.

    Jayne Lytel, is a frightening woman. The hatred she and the husband feel for their second son Leo in intense:
    https://www.amazon.com/Act-Early-Against-Autism-Fighting/dp/039953394X

    We even have Autism being promoted on this forum in blog articles.

    Sami Timimi and his co-authors insist, “Autism does not exit”, and that there are no biological markers for it.

    https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medicalising-Emotional-Competence/dp/0230545262

    https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Autism-Unravelling-Understanding-Social/dp/0415321816/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=constructing+autism&qid=1565731459&s=books&sr=1-1

    Things use to be more simple. If medical personnel did something wrong, it was “malpractice”.

    If the parents were fooling doctors, we called it “Munchausen’s Syndrome By Proxy”. But the fact is that there are so many parents who want this, to find the locus of Original Sin in their child, that now we have whole specialty disciplines of doctors who promote medical child abuse. And mostly it will be with private practice doctors who cater to those who have an ability to pay.

  • To be middle-class does not mean to be middle-income. It means a way of thinking, really a reactionary identity scheme, something to hide behind. There really is no one in the U.S. who is not middle-class.

    The middle-class lives in Bad Faith, it does not admit that it has to create values and make choices. Rather, it looks for defensive externals, and the worst of this falls on children. So the middle-class uses the language of pedagogy manuals, ideas like “parenting.”

    And while poor people do get tougher scrutiny from social services agencies, the well off defines itself by the language of pedagogy manuals, and by hiring their own doctors. And these private practice doctors employ a business model which is based on parental exoneration. They play god, believing that they can mitigate the way the child is being used, even though they have zero authority over the parents. They don’t understand why we have mandatory reporting laws. So others in the business of child protection report that it is harder to protect the children of the well off.

    https://www.amazon.com/When-Child-Kills-Paul-Mones/dp/0671674218

    So since the middle-class family exists to exploit children, the lowest level of redress would then be to prevent disinheritance. Loss of control of your money, after you are dead. That is a very light penalty. But as it is, the US is the outlier, in most every other industrialized nation, you really cannot disinherit your child.

    So for example, in the US, the fallacious concept of “dysfunctional family” is seen as a reason for Psychotherapy, Recovery Programs, and Salvation Programs.

    Whereas in British Columbia, you don’t need any of that nonsense. You just call a lawyer.

    http://disinherited.com/dysfunctional-families/

    Trevor will send someone out to try and talk sense to the testators once. But usually they are already senile, and also suicidal. Senile-Suicidals, everything they say is defying you to kill them.

    So when talking sense fails, he files under the Wills Variation Act, originating from a 1938 Act of the British Parliament.

    And then in the Civil Law countries, the presumptive heir does not even need a lawyer. A will which attempts to disinherit is null and void, toilet paper.

    And then a forum of survivors should not have articles about whether or not psych drugs are harmful, or about advantages and disadvantages of forced treatment, or about substituting psychotherapy for psychiatry.

    It should have the latest news from the legal front, where are the high water marks, what are the strategic lawsuits of today?

    Here is one, it failed badly, but the Bar Association did watch closely:

    In New Jersey the law is somewhat more favorable. But the judge would not even let Helfand argue her case. And the father had long been quite inappropriate with his daughter.

    https://www.nj.com/opinion/2014/03/rachel_cannings_lawyer_why_she_sued_her_parents_opinion.html

    I don’t know how common this is, when parents have stayed married, are backing each other up, and are financially solvent, but I helped 3 girls put their father into our state penn for molesting them. And their entire Pentecostal church was standing with the parents, because most everyone in that church has at least one scapegoat child, and usually a scapegoat sibling too. And their Pastor always makes a reference to these situations in his sermons. I am sure that that church is saturated with familial child abuse. And this molestation case and its parties, are tied up with a patricide case from a decade ago, father who was abusing his 15yo son, who turned around and killed the father.

    The most important information which could be presented on this forum is legal and political information.

    In Louisiana they had had Civil Law provisions in their state constitution, but then in the 1990’s this too got changed.

    Autism is just a hoax invented by the eugenics movement. It continues to operate today because of the rise of Neo-Liberalism and because of pedagogy manuals. It serves to legitimate the abuse of children and adults.

  • Lucy Johnstone is quoted above “We do need ways of grouping different kinds of experiences together so that we can think about the best way forward and all the rest of it, but the diagnostic system doesn’t do that. We are claiming that we’ve come up with something that does that better. Equally, it’s true that in the current system, diagnosis is needed for some practical purposes, like access to welfare and benefits, and for the foreseeable future, probably will be. We want to claim that we found that there are more effective ways of doing that that don’t require you to subscribe to a label, which is actually not valid and is experienced by many people as very damaging.”

    Why on earth would anyone want a psychotherapist to be even knowing their affairs, let alone planning the “best way forward”. Diagnosis simply means that a survivor of abuses is being tarred as having something wrong with themselves. Where as the real problem was always the destroyed social and civil standing. Diagnosis, even of this PTMF sort, just further compounds this.

    And we must organize and fight for redress, including Universal Basic Income, which does not further tar survivors or require acceptance of a diagnosis.

  • Sera, I like your article, and I agree with the spirit of it.
    But the way I see it is that we are all survivors of systemic abuses, but we don’t stand together. So many survivors are part of the mental health system, and most survivors still practice denial.

    We’ve got the Survivors of the Middle-Class Family, Bad Faith, not living up to its own values, only exists to exploit children and use the language of pedagogy manuals, like “parenting”.

    We’ve got the Survivors of the Mental Health Fraud.

    We’ve got the Survivors of the Psychotherapy Con.

    We’ve got the Survivors of the Autism Hoax.

    We’ve got the Survivors of the Recovery Movement Sham

    All of these kinds of abuse are real. And the effect that they have is to make a survivor more neurotic and more likely to fall prey to one of the other abuses.

    But the real underlying problem is that denigration of our social and civil standing is getting turned into a problem with ourselves. And the reason this can happen is that we do not counter strike, we do not fight back, we do not punish perpetrators and seize reparations. So we can be abused, and nothing happens to the abusers. The whole thing is a racket, and it depends upon denial systems.

    So to be able to strike back, I am asking people to hold a line:

    1. No drugs
    2. No psychotherapy
    3. No recovery programs

    Without this line, I don’t see restoring our social and civil standing as possible. But with this line, yes I know that there are things we can do which will restore our social and civil standing.

  • “initiatives like crisis hotlines and anti-stigma campaigns focus on opening more portals into mental health services”

    Shit! But it is true. This is why I take exception to so many of the articles here, the are perpetuating a problem, while they say they are making an improvement.

    What do other people have on this surveillance, and there must be some other forum which deals with this.

  • If people can agree on some minimum standard for resistance, No Drugs, No Psychotherapy, No Recovery Programs, then we can stop debating about healing, therapy, and recovery, and instead we can start fighting for redress.

    Right now, we have no social or civil standing. Why?

    Its because when people abuse us, nothing happens to them.

  • How the awareness of injustice which Feminism brought us in the 1970’s, got turned into a Therapy and Recovery Project, in the 1980’s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIC4uKSFpL0

    And what Peter Breggin wrote in Toxic Psychiatry is, “People are depressed because they are leading depressing lives.” I don’t take this as a jab at those who are depressed, I take it as a recognition of the fact that people don’t see political activism as being available for them. They don’t see ways to change affairs. They are not finding Comrades, they are inundated with Commiserators.

    And where I am, local authorities keep most of the poor and homeless women drugged, because it makes it easier for cops and paramedics to deal with them.

  • Correction, Psychotherapy does absolutely nothing to redress the injustices which have shaped your life.

    And then, it’s main purpose seems to be the exoneration of perpetrators. Like this with Freud, still like this today.

    The people who fight for redress and make some progress are usually people like the Familial Molestation Survivor Shari Karney, and the Munchausen’s Survivor Julie Gregory. They quickly turned their backs on psychotherapy and walked away from it, because they saw that where it went, was not good.

  • This is a really interesting book:
    The Wiley handbook on violence in education : forms, factors, and preventions / edited by Harvey Shapiro

    https://www.amazon.com/Wiley-Handbook-Violence-Education-Preventions/dp/1118966678/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=The+Wiley+handbook+on+violence+in+education&qid=1565649149&s=books&sr=1-1

    It includes one chapter written by Ralph W. Larkin, about the 2014 UC Santa Barbara shooter Elliot Rodger. Rodger was the first spree killer who claimed this Incel Identity (Involuntary Celibate).

    And Ralph W. Larking has written earlier about the Columbine killers. That one shocked everyone because there were two of them, so it didn’t really fit the “Lone Nut” characterization.

    What Larkin says is that really this is coming from the National Rifle Association, the narrative of the lone armed male seeking retribution. And then that NRA doctrine is pretty much the official position of the Republican Party. And then this Men’s Rights / PUA / PUA-HATE / MG-TOW movement which Rodger was induced into is pretty much just misogyny, and it also links to the NRA rhetoric.

    And then here Katherine S. Newman
    Rampage: The Social Roots of School Shootings
    https://www.amazon.com/Rampage-Social-Roots-School-Shootings/dp/0465051049/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=karen+newman+rampage&qid=1565649660&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0

    And here, Newman, most interesting:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtsO5K6tRBc

  • Usually so long as people have access to the court house and the ballot box, they won’t do anything extra legal.

    Now when the courts and the ballot box are shown to be rigged, like it was via 3/5’s and the proceeds from Slave Power, different story.

    https://www.famous-trials.com/johnbrown/614-browconstitution

    The number of revolutionary uprisings which have already occurred, even in my own lifetime is huge.

    We have a political and legal system which casts a huge number of people into an underclass.

    This will never be redressed so long as people conduct themselves recklessly. But get people to hold some line, and things will change.

    I am calling for No Drugs, No Psychotherapy, and No Recovery Programs.

  • Sorry that some of my earlier posts were unclear. Hitler and many of his supporters, and not just in Germany, talked about “Bolshevism” as a social hygiene menace, just like ~mental illness~ is talked about.

    I get hit with some of today’s online Right Rhetoric, and they talk about ~Socialism~ as though it is a social hygiene menace.

    And then just a few days ago, a Trump Supporter was talking with someone from El Salvador, about the importance of voting in America, “To make sure it stays like America and does not become like El Salvador”.

    This Trump Supporter fails to understand that in the US we did have an advantage politically because of strong governmental support for the development of a middle-class, in our electoral democracy, and in the availability of free and low cost land. This worked well up to the Civil War. And then in the 20th Century we had the New Deal and progressive income tax.

    In Latin America, most of these things were absent, and you had extreme colonial oppression, and a population divided into the very rich and the very poor.

    Voting the way this Trump Supporter wants, will further accelerate the process of doing that to the United States.

    But this Trump Supporter considers voting in a progressive way to be a social hygiene menace and to be that which must be wrong about Latin America.

  • None of us should ever disclose what we are thinking to the mental health system, psychiatrists, psychotherapists, recovery groups.

    Has to be reserved for trusted comrades, and still even then on a need to know basis.

    Do you want Tangible Results, or just Therapeutic Release? Do you take the things you have experienced seriously, or do you just want a therapist to hand waive them away?

    The less they know about you the better.

    Learning to live in this world is no different than learning to live in a guerrilla war.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9FN1LMdhic

  • “A lot of the time the so called “Mentally Ill” , are “Fairly Ordinary” people driven mad by antidepressants (prescribed to them, for life pressure reasons).”

    The reason they give people the ~antidepressants~ is to drive them mad.

    They need to sustain a huge underclass, otherwise we would have to find living wage jobs for all these people.

    So they need to turn people into basket cases.

  • What it is like is they have to protect themselves from the ~mental health~ and ~psychotherapy~ system. We all already live in a war zone. If we let them have a reason, we will be crushed.

    People have to allow time each day for feeling their feelings. The more they can promptly feel things when they happen, the better and the lower the risk of a crack up.

    We should have cards people can carry and lawyers always ready to respond.

  • Alex wrote, “But when a person heals from abuse, then they change whatever it was that attracted them to that abuser to begin with, and why they didn’t hear their intuition and pick up on the signs.”

    Alex, the abuse is built into the foundations of our society. It is not just this Recovery Movement idea that you or I are inclined to set up abusive relationships.

    As I know that is probably coming now from Richard Schwartz.

    The Mental Health and Psychotherapy enterprises are always trying to make survivors responsible for the difficulties they experience.

    We have to reject that and instead pursue this issues at a political level.

  • ^^^^^ That is how I see it. More than anything, the premises of psychotherapy are that it is morally superior to go on with so called living, without honor.

    If someone accepts that, then they are already half way to suicide, as I see it.

    Nothing changes someone more than when they find out that they can be part of the fight for redress and justice.

  • Augustine’s conversion account, the “healthy mindedness” type of account which you typically find in New Thought circles, the standard type of Evangelical Conversion account, the standard type of Recovery Movement account, and what is becoming common in Autism narratives, these are all first hand personal experience accounts.

    But I still do not accept them, not at anything close to face value. They are interpretations, influenced by the environment they are coming out of. No reason I or anyone else is obligated to accept them.

    I like the kind of account presented about Shari Karney. Learned about early childhood sexual molestation. Tried to confront her parents, but it back fired totally. So seeing how systemic this was, she spent the next 10 years tenaciously finding out ways of getting legal redress. This turned out to be getting SOL’s extended. And this is the only reason why things are any better today.

    Or here, man who is not Black, he is Jewish. Horrified by goings on in South Africa. Slated to head the ANC’s Armed Wing. Trained by Soviets in Odessa.

    https://www.amazon.com/Armed-Dangerous-Undercover-Struggle-Freedom/dp/143140795X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=ronnie+kasrils&qid=1565389451&s=books&sr=1-1

    Or here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91mFsfJywXE

    Steve, I used to believe in 12 step Recovery Groups and the idea of sharing. Not anymore. Now I know that that goes nowhere.

    If someone really knows something about injustice then you would expect to see them engaged in the fight.

  • So who wants to align themselves with the hard line stance:

    No Drugs, No Psychotherapy, No Recovery Programs!

    From there we start taking political actions. The hard line stance is necessary so that we are not feeding into the logic of mental health, psychotherapy, and recovery.

    ???

  • I will agree that some therapists are worse than others, but I still say that the underlying premises of the whole thing are always wrong. And if we promote psychotherapy, then most clients are going to end up with the crumby therapists. And I have also noticed that those who are not paying but are being provided with a therapist at public expense, they get the worst. It is not just because these are bad therapists, it is also because there is a presumption that the job of the therapist is to regulate and reform the client, so that they don’t use up so much tax payer resources.

    But having said all of that, I still say that therapy is based on a con, and it tries to get people to reformulate their self narrative into something consistent with the con.

    So really it has a lot in common with something I loathe, Scientology. But it also is like versions of religion.

    People say that Freud and Psychoanalysis took hold early on because they appear to be more liberal than religion, seeing us as being animals and having lots of drives to sex and violence.

    In his native Vienna Freud watched troops mobilizing for WWI and he lamented about all the kinds of darkness that are in men’s souls.

    But he seems not to understand that it is not darkness in men’s souls which make war.

    What makes for war is injustice, things like monarchy and capitalism.

    And fighting for one’s country is not necessarily a bad thing.

    Freud was taking people’s experiences and turning them into a moral defect. Still too much like religion. And today, Psychotherapy is still like this, they just use different terminology. And this Richard Schwartz, as I see it is one the worst.

  • My supposition is that the PTMF idea is probably influenced by the writings of David Smail. It does away with the presumption of ~mental illness~. Its like trying to cure people of their exposure to the ~mental health~ system.

    Its not bad for a first critique of psychotherapy. But it still comes down to confessing your affairs in the therapist’s office, instead of fighting to end this colonization. It does nothing to address the actual assaults on social and civil standing, as those require a political solution, not ~therapy~.

  • Well I think the mental health system has always been bogus. Today all it does is create a vast amount of pain and suffering, as well as a giant underclass.

    So first I call for a hard line stance, No Drugs, No Psychotherapy, No Recovery Programs. It is important that people take this stance, so that they are not bound into the system.

    Then we build political organizations and act. We get the drugs off of the market, we eliminate all forced treatments, and we start putting some psychotherapists out of business and end the government licensing of psychotherapy. We also get the government out of the Recovery and Salvation businesses.

    We protect children as we try to now, but supplemented by setting up things like the Children’s Home in an Israeli Kibbutz. We can’t eradicate the middle-class family, but we can do better in mitigating it. Children must have back up places to go and back up places where they visit regularly and already feel welcomed. This takes the place of Foster Care. And so we also have voluntary universal day care and preschool, as they have in France. Everybody uses it, because it is so good.

    The United States is just about alone among industrialized nations in that it allows people to disinherit their children. Legal scholars have tried to show the absurdity of this. But here it is. And it has gotten worse, as the one exception had been Louisiana, but in the mid 90’s they changed their laws and even amended their state constitution. But I talk to people online who live in other countries where the laws are different, and they seem to have no idea what the laws are even in their country. Well, things have started to change in the Common Law Countries, staring with the 1938 Wills Variation Act in the British Parliament. And then in the Civil Law Countries, Western Europe, Latin America, and now some on the Pacific Rim, there has always been such protection. Not even necessary to have a lawyer. So in the US, things need to change. Can’t use children as the family scapegoats.

    And then we have to look at what is really creating this huge underclass in the industrialized nations, and especially in the US. We live and work with advanced agricultural technology, advanced industrial technology, and advanced information technology. And we have increasingly these boom and bust cycles. First was around 1873, and then the 1930’s. And then after Ronald Reagan, I have lost count. The reason is simply that most of our economy serves very soft needs. We do not anymore need a very large work force. But the way that is being dealt with is by labeling people as ~Addicts~ ~Alcoholics~ ~Mentally Ill~ or ~Autistic~. I think it could go next to internment camps.

    What Buckminster Fuller wrote was that because of advances in agriculture and industrial technology, we now have the ability to take care of every single person even better than royalty had lived in past centuries.

    Now true, much of this technology of the 20th Century had been developed for killing people. But we can use it differently. We already produce more than enough of everything we need. But as Fuller explained, “The reason we don’t see this is that we expect everybody to prove that they can earn a living.”

    https://www.amazon.com/Critical-Path-R-Buckminster-Fuller-ebook/dp/B015GEOKMS

    Seeing the carnage of two world wars, in 1947 Georges Bataille wrote his “Accursed Share”. It is that share which creates wars. Bataille instead envisioned a Gift Economy.

    Seeing produce left to rot on the ground and livestock being buried, because market prices were too low to pay the transportation costs, and seeing vast unemployment and mortgage foreclosures, in 1934 Upton Sinclair ran for Governor of California. His platform was called production for use, because it is overproduction and over consumption which creates the busts.

    https://www.amazon.com/Land-Orange-Groves-Jails-California/dp/1890771953/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=The+land+of+orange+groves+and+jails+%3A+Upton+Sinclair%27s+California&qid=1565311185&s=gateway&sr=8-1

    Our society and our economic system need to change. Right now one of the most destructive things we have going is the Work-Ethic, which is the basis of the Middle-Class Family. Most of those in this underclass have been deeply effected by this teaching.

    And then a broader version of this, the Self-Reliance Ethic, seems to be the basis of the Autism Industry.

    So what to do, the most promising thing now seems to be Universal Basic Income, along with Medicare for All and a strong public housing offering along with free college. This goes a bit beyond what Andrew Yang has written, 2020 Democrat for President:

    https://www.amazon.com/War-Normal-People-Disappearing-Universal/dp/0316414212/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Andrew+Yang&qid=1565311465&s=gateway&sr=8-1

    https://www.amazon.com/Raising-Floor-Universal-Economy-American/dp/1610396251/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3068EDVHTN877&keywords=andy+stern+raising+the+floor&qid=1565311512&s=gateway&sprefix=andy+stern%2Caps%2C195&sr=8-1

    Political involvement is always the replacement for the therapist’s couch.

  • Well we all have to decide what we do and do not accept.

    Like I said, you will see experience narratives coming out of Religion and Recovery too. They are interpretations.

    In 1901 William James wrote about two distinctly different types of religious experiences. I have written about this, and drawing from Augustine’s Confessions and from Alice Miller too.

    Just because you say it is your personal experience, that does not mean that others cannot refuse some of the contextual elements, like the fact that it was part of psychotherapy.

    I am hardly the first to challenge the legitimacy of psychotherapy and psychoanalysis, and to say that they are scams.

    Some here defend psychiatry and drugs. Some endorse street drugs like LSD, MDMA, Methamphetamine, and Marijuana. I’ve known many who endorse Ethanol.

    I do not go along with any of it. Not intending to offend, but I really do not go along with it.

    Dreyfus paper challenges the ways in which we understand what we know and what we are, and hence it challenges Psychoanalysis and Psychotherapy.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwj2nOGksvTjAhWRoFsKHSH2A9QQFjAAegQIABAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsophos.berkeley.edu%2Fdreyfus%2Fpdf%2FAlternative%2520(Word98).pdf&usg=AOvVaw1haiE8_qIBPWD2WrIo7-ZR

    Drawing on Martin Heidegger, Dreyfus challenged the Military Artificial Intelligence Community at MIT, and ended up leaving for UC Berkeley where he was well received.

    Drawing also on Martin Heidegger, Paul Tillich pretty much demolished prior Christian Theology.

    Psychotherapy is based on assumptions and it is based on a kind of a Philosophy. I say that it is no longer credible, and that it is now a kind of Witch Doctoring.

    Really interesting book:
    https://www.amazon.com/Embodied-Mind-Cognitive-Science-Experience/dp/026252936X

    Shows three circles, kind of like levels. Deals with how we know what we know, but finally how we are what we are.

    Most of what is Religion and Psychotherapy does not come off looking very good.

    Deals with Cognition, Artificial Intelligence, and Psychotherapy.

    And actually there should be a 4th circle, to include postmodernism and poststructuralism.

    And people are saying that it was Gilles Deleuze who was really the first who was post-Heideggerian.

    Totally demolishes Psychanalysis and Psychotherapy, and by using Nietzsche it rewrites Marx and Engels.

    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Oedipus-Capitalism-Schizophrenia-Penguin-Classics/dp/0143105825/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3G6EKM1BK3QB3&keywords=anti-oedipus+capitalism+and+schizophrenia&qid=1565306368&s=books&sprefix=anti-oedipus%2Cstripbooks%2C191&sr=1-1

    above is extremely challenging, best book to help explain it:

    https://www.amazon.com/EPZ-Deleuze-Guattaris-Anti-Oedipus-Readers/dp/0826491480/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=anti-oedipus+ian+buchanan&qid=1565306429&s=books&sr=1-1

    And I believe that in the later Foucault, and in some of those who interpreted him, there will be a highly effective refutation of all that is the Mental Health System, Psychiatry, Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Salvation Religion, as well as of this creation of an underclass which we are witnessing.

  • Edited Replacement Version of Above
    ********************

    When Alice Miller was at her greatest, she denounced every conceivable form of psychotherapy, with zero exceptions. She resigned from all psychoanalytic associations, and she apologized for having led some of her readers into psychotherapy. She said that every form of psychotherapy was simply a denial system.

    So how then does one recover their lost feelings? Well what worked for her was water color painting. She writes about this very well, and shows her paintings, in “Pictures of a Childhood”.

    I would say that her paintings are a bit bleak, and fairly non-descript. But she was able to understand abuses she suffered from these.

    And I also point out two additional points she makes First, she insisted that her paintings only worked so well because she had never studied any technique for painting. If she had studied any technique, she insisted that her painting would have been worthless.

    Second, she explained that during her psychoanalytic training, she underwent two complete courses of psychoanalysis. She explained that this uncovered none of the abuses which she found by herself by doing water color paintings. Hence, those courses of psychoanalyses were worthless, mere denial systems.

    Now as I am describing, this was the early Alice Miller, the first 7 books.

    Then she went dark for a number of years, and when she came back she was only a pale reflection of what she had been. She had hooked up with this J. Conrad Stettbacher, a kind of a cult leader, and that cult based upon his own adaptation of Primal Therapy. Seems that she was really harmed by it. It is a very manipulative therapy, but all therapy is.

    From reading Stettbacher’s book, I would say that someone might want to do something like what Stettbacher suggests by themselves, like a kind of meditation. But I would never suggest that anyone ever let anyone else lead them in any kind of Regression Therapy, not Janov, not anyone.

    I have done what Stettbacher suggests, by myself for years and years, and in many variations, along with lots of journaling and various sorts of spiritual exercises. And I am always developing new approaches. It is a continual and life long project, to remember the parts of myself which have been cut off.

    Now returning to Miller, I have always said, she opened doors but she was not able to walk through them herself.

    She showed how the issue is not child abuse, rather it is what of The Family which is considered good and required, which is so harmful. And in this sense I would say that she is more like Foucault, than like a liberal pedagogue.

    She saw and showed how bogus psychotherapy was, but she still wanted to believe. So she went with a regression therapist and got badly harmed. Its just like R. D. Laing before her, getting swallowed up in regression therapy. And of course it gets into things which are prenatal and of past lives. Totally impossible to redress, and this is no accident.

    Miller reached the point where the way forward was clearly redress. But she never took any steps in that direction.

    She asked why in artistic works Isaac is always mute. She said that if he raised his hand against his father, “then that would start the war we all fear.”

    Well that is how she thought, that was as far as she could go. I say it was religion and experiences in the Warsaw Ghetto which weakened her.

    As she started to write again she doubled back on herself and re-endorsed psychotherapy, as a way to get that “enlightened witness”.

    But some observers have pointed out that “enlightened witness” is probably a bad translation of her German. Some say it should be like “helping witness”, as it gets translated into Spanish. “Enlightenment” plays into the dissociation and detachment which you find in religion and psychotherapy.

    Helping Witness could mean different things, what age are they helping you at, and with what sorts of things?

    For myself I have stopped using these terms and instead introduced my own take, seeking “Comrades”. People think this is Russian, but it actually comes from French.

    People learn and grow when they place themselves at risk and enter into real conflict.

    And I know this myself, having entered into contentious matters and having seen how I was sold out as a child. No form of therapy could ever have exposed this, and really nothing other than intense consequential conflict could have.

    The physical pain is intense, like having your bones eating away from the inside by acid.

    People who have gone thru this will fight. They know that healing and recovery are scams. And they know that only by fighting do they have any chance of restoring their public honor. And when people fight well, they draw comrades. The rest of the people are just commiserators.

    And sorry to say, a psychotherapist is not going to be a comrade.

    On her web site they associate her with “Child Abuse”. I say this is totally inaccurate. Child abuse means that which is recognized as abuse and which the law might punish.

    What she wrote about in those first 7 books was that which is not seen at all, what is considered good and necessary.

    If you had to sum up what she was about at her best, I would say it would be:

    1. Anti-Pedagogy, all pedagogy, coercive and liberal

    2. Exposing the Middle-Class Family, because this is who reads and writes the pedagogy manuals

    3. Anti-Psychotherapy

    But most of the people who say that they follow Alice Miller really understand very little of this. They want to make her into something of a liberal pedagogue.

    I will say that she found ways to sneak out and back in, at the Warsaw Ghetto. She made common cause with Polish Resistance, and she was able to bring in food.

    Also, Pictures of a Childhood was out of print for years and years. So finally I called the publisher in NYC and got someone who knew about it. He found one in a back room, it was dusty. And they let me have it at retail price without sales tax. This would have been around 1990. With her books, say 6 and 7, I was reading them right as they came out onto the store shelves. But Pictures of a Childhood was the one I had such a hard time getting hold of, more pictures than words.

    When she went dark I was very disappointed. But then when she started to write again, post Stettbacher, it was nothing like she was before. I would not have read her early stuff if it was like that.

    Since, Pictures of a Childhood has been reissued in paper back from.

  • When Alice Miller was at her greatest, she denounced every conceivable form of psychotherapy with zero exceptions. She resigned from all psychoanalytic associations, and she apologized for having led some of her readers into psychotherapy. She said that every form of psychotherapy was simply a denial system.

    So how then does one recover their lost feelings? Well what worked for her was water color painting. She writes about this very well, and shows her paintings, in “Pictures of a Childhood”.

    I would say that her paintings are a bit bleak, and fairly non-descript. But she was able to understand abuses she suffered from these.

    And I also point out two additional points she makes First, she insisted that her paintings only worked so well because she had never studied any technique for painting. If she had studied any technique, she insisted that her painting would have been worthless.

    Second, she explained that during her psychoanalytic training, she underwent two complete courses of psychoanalysis. She explained that this uncovered none of the abuses which she found by herself by doing water color paintings. Hence, those courses of psychoanalyses were worthless, mere denial systems.

    Now as I am describing, this was the early Alice Miller, the first 7 books.

    Then she went dark for a number of years, and when she came back she was only a pale reflection of what she had been. She had hooked up with this J. Conrad Stettbacher, a kind of a cult leader, and that cult based upon his own adaptation of Primal Therapy. Seems that she was really harmed by it. It is a very manipulative therapy, but all therapy is.

    From reading Stettbacher’s book, I would say that someone might want to do something like what Stettbacher suggests by themselves, like a kind of meditation. But I would never suggest that anyone ever let anyone else lead them in any kind of Regression Therapy, not Janov, not anyone.

    I have done what Stettbacher suggests, by myself for years and years, and in many variations, along with lots of journaling and various sorts of spiritual exercises. And I am always developing new approaches. It is a continual and life long project, to remember the parts of myself which have been cut off.

    Now returning to Miller, I have always said, she opened doors but she was not able to walk through them herself.

    She showed how the issue is not child abuse, rather it is what of The Family which is considered good and required, which is so harmful. And in this sense I would say that she is more like Foucault, than like a liberal pedagogue.

    She saw and showed how bogus psychotherapy was, but she still wanted to believe. So she went with a regression therapist and got badly harmed. Its just like R. D. Laing before her, getting swallowed up in regression therapy. And of course it gets into things which are prenatal and of past lives. Totally impossible to redress, and this is no accident.

    Miller reached the point where the way forward was clearly redress. But she never took any steps in that direction.

    She asked why in artistic works Isaac is always mute. She said that if he raised his hand against his father, “then that would start the war we all fear.”

    Well that is how she thought, that was as far as she could go. I say it was religion and experiences in the Warsaw Ghetto which weakened her.

    As she started to write again she doubled back on herself and re-endorsed psychotherapy, as a way to get that “enlightened witness”.

    But some observers have pointed out that “enlightened witness” is probably a bad translation of her German. Some say it should be “helping witness”, as it gets translated into Spanish. “Enlightenment” plays into the dissociation and detachment which you find in religion and psychotherapy.

    Helping Witness could mean different things, what age are they helping you at, and with what sorts of things?

    For myself I have stopped using these terms and instead introduced my own take, seeking “Comrades”. People think this is Russian, but it actually comes from French.

    People learn and grow when they place themselves at risk and enter into real conflict. And sorry to say, a psychotherapist is not going to be a comrade.

    On her web site they associate her with “Child Abuse”. I say this is totally inaccurate. Child abuse means that which is recognized as abuse and what the law might punish.

    What she wrote about in those first 7 books was that which is not seen at all, what is considered good and necessary.

    If you had to sum up what she was about at her best, I would say it would be:

    Anti-Pedagogy, all pedagogy, coercive and liberal
    Exposing the Middle-Class Family, because that is who reads and writes the pedagogy manuals
    Anti-Psychotherapy.

    But most of the people who say that they follow Alice Miller really understand very little of this. They want to make her into something of a liberal pedagogue.

    I will say that she found ways to sneak out and back in, at the Warsaw Ghetto. She made common cause with Polish Resistance, and she was able to bring in food.

    Also, Pictures of a Childhood was out of print for years and years. So finally I called the publisher in NYC and got someone who knew about it. He found one in a back room, it was dusty. And they let me have it at retail price without sales tax. This would have been around 1990. With her books say 6 and 7, I was reading them right as they came out onto the store shelves. But Pictures of a Childhood was the one I had such a hard time getting hold of, more pictures than words.

    When she went dark I was very disappointed. But then when she started to write again, post Stettbacher, it was nothing like she was before. I would not have read her early stuff if it was like that.

    Since Pictures of a Childhood has been reissued in paper back from.

  • Steve just because you say that Psychotherapy made you feel good, that does mean that I or anyone else have to go along with it.

    Personal experience narratives are always interpretations. Evangelical Religion generates them. The Recovery Movement generates them. Psychotherapy generates them, as do lots of other things.

    I say people learn more and grow more then they are actively involved and placing themselves at risk in the fight for justice and restored social and civil standing. In the vast majority of cases, psychotherapy steers people away from such. But publicly vanquishing worthy foes is always going to be the central pillar of public honor.

    The therapist of course believes that the problem and the solutions lie between the client’s ears, and some people will go along with this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9FN1LMdhic

  • Jess Stohlmann-Rainey, not seen your name before, excellent article.

    ” I believed wholeheartedly that suicide “prevention” was about creating a world worth living in, and thought that the field shared that belief.”

    Well, nothing of the Mental Health System works like that, not the drugs, not the psychotherapy. Its always about getting you to accept a so called life which is without honor. The very idea of “healing” is to get you to turn the accusatory finger back on yourself and to exonerate perpetrators. “Recovery” is more of the same.

    “Suicide prevention constructs a reality in which the problems of suicide lie within suicidal people. ”

    Everything of ~Mental Health~ ~Psychotherapy~ and ~Recovery~ works that way.

    We shouldn’t be wasting money putting survivors on drugs or sending them to therapists, we should be sending them to law school, so that we can obtain compensatory justice.

    I say that the most important right now should be talking a hard line stance, No Drugs, No Therapy, No Recovery Programs.

    And then fight to get laws changed, get the drugs off of the market, and start putting some psychotherapists out of business, and then move forward from there.

    One of the promising things I see is that some people are now suing their psychotherapists for “Transference Abuse”.

    Excellent Article! Excellent insights! I am so glad that you have been able to resist!

    Emergency Doctor to Trump: You Are Wrong, Mental Illness Is Not to Blame for Gun Violence Epidemic
    https://www.democracynow.org/2019/8/8/mental_illness_gun_violence_suicide_risk#transcript

  • Yes, blaming the ~mentally ill~ and the ~unmedicated mentally ill~ is hate speech.

    I first learned this decades ago, visiting a book store in a posh suburban retail area. I heard a male voice yelling very loudly. I looked outside to see what was up. I saw a man across the street, didn’t really see anything else going on. Then a few minutes later someone came in and announced, “Off his medication”.

    At first I accepted that interpretation. But then later I thought more, no, that guy has no obligation to stay medicated to please everyone else.

    And when you see someone who is angry, yelling, talking to himself, for no apparent reason, most people will call that ~mental illness~. But there is another more basic interpretation, simply that the person is angry, and with good reason.

    We might not know why they are angry, and the party might not want to tell us or might not even be able to. But if they are angry, then I say that it must be for good reason. When someone has a nullified social and civil standing, the probably will not be able to redress wrongs.

    But this matter is further compounded by things like Mind Freedom, making an unequivocal pledge to non-violence as a way of life. It is appeasement. Knowing when and how to use physical violence is a part of life.

    And then likewise psychotherapists always see one of their main jobs, as required by law, being to talk people down, to make sure that they are disclosing all of their affairs, while at the same time always pledging non-violence. This is belittling and humiliating, and no one should ever go along with it.

  • Most schools of Psychotherapy and Psychoanalysis frown upon suicide. And most civilized countries prohibit it.

    It thing it was Binswanger who said it was okay, or was it Jaspers?

    If so I am not really disagreeing with them, its just that I guess most people see suicide as just a senseless tragedy and waste. I also see it this way.

  • Psychotherapy, like Psychanalysis, runs of the premise that all you have to do is surface that which is unconscious.

    Well first of all, this is a rotten model of cognition.

    Second, is the therapist paying office rent, or are they out fighting on the barricades and in the court rooms to make the sorts of legal changes which will restore the social and civil standing of survivors, and will end this interminable “healing project”?

  • We shouldn’t be encouraging people to build their identities on things like mad or neurodiverse. They have no objective reality, and they aid in the eugenics movement and in the systematic abuse of children. And this is what is wrong with Austism Self-Awareness Network, and about Nick Walker’s doings.

  • Frank, I concede your point about “mad”. But I still want to see people seizing reparations where there have been abuses. And as I see it, the labeling is the biggest part of the abuse.

    “Mad” in some other context, like a “Mad Hatter’s Party” would be fine. But for people who have really been harmed by the mental health system, had their chance at life severely undermined, I can’t go along with it.

    Neurodiversity, to me that has always just been the survivors of abuse pleading for mercy.

    I think Nick Walker is misguided, he does not see the broader context of what he is doing.

    My .02

  • Yes, Steve, but I still say that long before DSM and the proliferation of Psychaitric Drugs, that Psychoanalysis and Psychotherapy were wrong, and they are still wrong.

    This is readily available on paper, but also full text right here:
    https://wayback.archive-it.org/all/20120129001138/http://www.hnet.uci.edu/mposter/CTF/

    Goes from Freud and an early critical reading of Anti-Oedipus, and through the key things, like Erik Erickson and Ego Counseling.

    Each of these things does indeed seem to be predicated on a doctrine of The Family.

  • I would say that anyone who is caught in any of the tentacles of the mental health system, is at n increased risk of suicide.

    They are having their experiences of in justice turned into a medical problem, and into a self-improvement project.

    And this applies just as well to the no diagnosis, no labels, school of psychotherapy and recovery, because the victim there is still being invited to talk themselves out, but they are not shown any path of restoring their social and civil standing. So it will be a life without honor, barely worth calling life, which awaits them.

    I point out Matthew Warren, youngest son of Saddle Back Church founders Rick and Kay Warren. Rick said that he had had the best Psychiatrists, best Psychotherapists, and best Prayer Warriors in the entire world. As I see it, very few could have survived that.

    And then Kay was all upset saying that a Psychiatrist abandoned Matthew in the hospital. Seems like that was probably the best thing which could have happened to him, other than his mother also abandoning him.

    I say that that suicide should be investigated as a suspected 1st Degree Murder.

  • ^^^^^^^ I think as a people we are becoming more conscious in our living patterns and in our choices.

    As it has been, the Middle-Class has lived in Bad Faith, that is not admitting that they have to make choices, not living up to their own values. And so you get people who blame the wretched state of their own lives on the children that they did not need to have.

    I feel that most of these ~neurological difference issues like Autism/ Asperger~ and most of these ~Mental Illness~ issues arise from this exploitation of children which is the middle-class family. People are having children to give themselves a public identity. And then the pedagogy manuals do not help, they are a major driving force in perpetuating the problem.

    My .02

  • Someone Else, no one is stealing anyone’s children from them.

    The first legal actions to protect a child were in 1874 in NYC. Since they had no other laws, they had to use laws designed to protect animals.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/15/health/15abus.html

    Since that time the issue of child protection and its constitutionality have been examined by our highest court, and it has been found to be a proper and necessary government function.

    A big change occurred in 1974, with the passage of what is commonly known as the Mondale Act.

    https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/cb/capta_40yrs.pdf

    The only way to keep a child away from their parents depends upon the decision of a judge. No mental health workers or CPS worker has the authority to make such a decision.

    While generally corporal punishment is not prohibited, severe abuse and neglect of a child is. So if you know of any such cases, just dial 911. If it is a more serious case or not in the child’s home, then probably police will deal with it. CPS is mostly for things which happen in the child’s home, as that should be handled with greater care.

    If a child has been removed then there will be a contested hearing where a judge will decide where to go from there.

    If there seems to be a reason to argue for continued separation of the child from the parents, the there will usually be a multi-disciplinary team assembled to evaluate. This likely will include a psychologist. But the actual decision will be made by a judge. Usually the judge will try to establish a family reunification plan.

    The idea of child protection remains one of the things the religious right is most threatened by, so the internet is saturated with completely distorted accounts.

  • ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree 100% with oldhead, and I wish that what he is saying was widely understood.

    I also say that when someone goes along with Psychotherapy, even without DSM and labels, that they are submitting to a whole bunch of faulty premises and understandings, which make Psychotherapy into a kind of Witch Doctoring.

  • Steve, psychotherapy is built on a crumby model of cognition. From this, Freud promoted his idea of the “talking cure”.

    But there is no knowing without doing. All knowing is doing and all doing is knowing.

    We do not know things in an abstract detached Cartesian way.

    Sure maybe there are some psychotherapists who do a lot of listening and very little talking. But this does not mean that they actually have anything to contribute, or that they ever really side with the client.

    Now yes, I have not met every therapist. But if you had therapists who sided with the clients, there would be redress for the wrongs committed, not just people who say that they feel better.

    Confronting people is not usually redress.

    This book talks about redress, a father making “reparations payments”.

    https://www.amazon.com/Childism-Confronting-Prejudice-Against-Children/dp/0300192401

    Nothing done in the office of the therapist restores your public honor. It is all a private matter. But the lack of public honor is what makes it so difficult for survivors to function. The idea that this is all caused by pain from past events, I say is a deception, and that Psychotherapy is Con Artistry.

  • Taking abuse lightly we have Mad Pride and this new Radical Neurodiversity.

    Mind Freedom I would have counted too, but maybe they have started to clean up their act.

    These trivializers have no interest in vanquishing foes, but they are making public identity destroying labels into a joke.

    And as far as a need to heal, you don’t heal when you are in the middle of continuing abuse. The idea that your pain comes from things of the past is part of the con that is psychotherapy. Talk of healing is just a way of further delegitimating survivors, and of getting them to accept passivity in the midst of continual attacks.

    Suppose someone goes to a police station to report that they have been raped. And suppose that what they hear is, “Well we have all the healing resources right here. We have therapists and recovery programs, and we have doctors who can administer drugs so that you don’t have to propagate more cycles of abuse. But otherwise you should not really be talking about this, not until you have healed.”

    There is clearly something wrong. But this is how it goes, not at the police station, but when ever one enters into the realm of therapy and recovery.

    People have been told that the abuses they have experienced are aberrational. They are not. So much so that I try to limit my use of the term “abuse” as it makes it sound like something which is aberrational and which the law might prohibit.

    I find it more useful to talk about “exploitation”, as this conveys the sense that it is not aberrational, and that not only does the law not prohibit it, the law encourages it.

    Some people talk about ~Dysfunctional Families~. I do not go along with that idea. I say that the families are perfectly functional. They do exactly what they are intended to do. Paraphrasing Nietzsche from “Genealogy of Morals”, its just like it is with the sharp stones and hot coals that primitive societies use to initiate adolescents, these are intended to scar and maim, they are used to “Breed Man”.

    In the US though people see that the best response to a dysfunctional family is Psychotherapy, Healing, Recovery, and maybe Getting Saved.

    It is not looked at that way everywhere. In British Columbia the best response to a ~Dysfunctional Family~ is simply to call a lawyer:

    http://disinherited.com/?s=dysfunctional+families

    People have been taught that they need Therapeutic Release. I say that that is just a way of continuing to marginalize someone, trying to get them to accept life without honor. Rather than Therapeutic Release, the issue should be Tangible Results, because this is what restores public honor.

    Today most middle-class child abuse is predicated upon the bogus ethic known as “Self-Reliance”.

  • Yep!

    So that is where I want to go. I want a theory which will give a way of opposing Psychiatry and the drugging, and also the con that is Psychotherapy. And I want to go after the nonsense which is the Recovery Movement. To me they all seem to have the same intent, to create an underclass, so that we don’t need to question the Self-Reliance Ethic in an advanced industrial and information economy. We don’t need the extra workers, but we have the people, so what do we do with them?

    So Foucault wrote the stuff about BioPower and BioPolitics in the late 70’s, a series of lectures.

    Then people seem to see Alain Badiou as the successor to both Foucault and to Deleuze and Guattari. He wrote The Subject in 1982. Might be a book which shows how to oppose BioPower and BioPolitics.

    And then Judith Butler at UC Berkeley, I think she has written about ways to oppose BioPower and BioPolitics, and it is difficult. Sounds like she sees it as something which cannot be direct.

    And Butler is a partner of Wendy Brown, one of our major theorists of Neo-Liberalism, and the author of “Undoing the Demos”.

    I think these are the things we should be looking at, not debating with Psychotherapists and with people who want to add street drugs into the mix of chemicals used to keep people tranquilized.

    And I also want to go after this ~Autism Asperger’s Neurological Difference~ sham.

    As I know, the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, includes a provision of protection from labeling.

    I consider this very important, essential. And it is where I break with all the Autism and Neurodiversity advocates, and even with this Nick Walker and his Radical Neurodiversity.

    People have Cognitive Liberty today. People can think anyway they want.

    Now if you say it, that is a different matter. Say the wrong things, and especially to your psychotherapist, and you will likely end up handcuffed to a table in a police interrogation cell.

    So I see this protection from labeling as far more important that this idea of Cognitive Liberty. End the labeling and then everybody is just who they are. Problem solved.

    I read the stuff the Autism advocates write, and I can understand and identify with much of it. But I interpret it totally differently. I do not see there as being any objective reality to Autism, Asperger’s, or to this Neurological Difference. I just see that we have a cruel world which uses bullying to socialize, and that most people have little refuge from this.

    I also notice one thing though, though they do not say it, I see in the writings of these self identifying autistics, that most of the time things start to look better for them, once they no longer live with their parents.

    So Nick Walker pushes this idea of Radical Neurodivergence as far as possible, so that it does not seem to mean anything.

    But of these courses he has, he also says”

    “The instructor must be autistic.”

    “The Instructor Must Be a Participant
    in Autistic Culture, Community, and Resistance”

    “At least 80% of the assigned readings should be by autistic authors.”

    http://neurocosmopolitanism.com/

    So I see his work as being completely misguided. He is propagating the myth of Autism, and he is trafficking in the labels. I do not see any reason that the labels cannot just be dumped immediately.

    Sami Timimi says that with the label, people buy in to a fantasy, “Now someone is going to really figure out what is going on.” And yes I see this, too, in the writings of these self proclaimed autistics. But I see that the purpose it serves for them has to do with the Self-Reliance Ethic, and with the need to exonerate perpetrators.

    I also notice something else, besides Nick Walker being involved in this thing about giving MDMA to ~Autistics~ to alleviate ~social anxiety~, I see that this California Institute of Integral Studies has lots of stuff about using street drugs, ~Psychedelics~, as an expansion of the psychiatric drugging travesty.

    I have looked over many years at their web site for various reasons. I never saw any stuff like this. But today I have to say that what this Nick Walker is doing, propagating the myth that there is some neurological difference behind the popular phenomenon of Autistic Identity, is just plain wrong and it needs to be ended.

    And then of CIIS, I now consider it suspect.

    I feel that the protection from labeling and the ending of these identities formed in a context of abuse, are far more important, than worrying about how people think, or about what curious mannerisms they might have.

  • I think that it will be in the works of Foucault and some of his followers that some real progress is made, and especially in those later works which gave us the ideas of BioPower, BioPolitics, and Neoliberalism.

    We have a vast underclass of people, who’s lives totally revolve around the ~mental health~ system.

    And we have NGO’s which are little more than an outgrowth of our county’s ~mental health~ apparatus.

    I guess long ago, LGBTQ activism was very radical, dealing with areas which most people really could not accept.

    But as I reported on before, an acquaintance with someone who was on the Board of our largest LGBTQ group. As I see now, it is largely concerned with ~mental health~ ~psychotherapy~ and ~recovery~ matters, and it is very close to our county’s mental health, therapy, and recovery system.

    I gather that it would be mostly Trans people who would have a harder time functioning, the way our world is set up. So this LQBTQ activist group is mostly then their version of the ~mental health~ system. So accept for standing up for LQBTQ issues, it is not a very radical group.

    And then my acquaintance, he gets by in life by supporting the mental health system. Cops like him because he is in their records, one of the ~crazies~ who accept their ~illness~, and I think takes his meds. And when he is not doing that, it’s Crystal Meth.

    He accepts ~Bipolar 2~, ~Asperger’s~, ~Psychotherapy~, and ~Recovery~, and I gather that this LGBTQ activist group is pretty much the same way.

    And I am talking here, going beyond the LGBTQ sphere, of a huge huge underclass, placated, stabilized, tranquilized, therapized.

    I believe that in Foucault’s work that he does deal with the full scope of the problem.

  • In R.W.’s books he only talks about the horrors of these drugs, and he does a masterful job of showing how they crate the ~mental illness~ phenomenon. I am not aware of him saying anything which supports a therapy or recovery model.

    Now usually people can work together without having to agree on everything. They just have to agree on some objectives, and then agree on some rules about what sorts of things cannot be endorsed.

    I am fine to support efforts to end psychiatry, psych drugs, and forced procedures. Those are all worthwhile objectives.

    But I cannot be associated with anything which presents Psychotherapy or Recovery as the solutions to life’s challenges. Likewise I cannot be associated with anything which promotes street drugs, and as a substitute to psych drugs. Both types of drug use are based on the same fallacy.

    And then I cannot be involved with anything which presents an open ended commitment to non-violence as a way of life, like Mind Freedom did.

    And I cannot be associated with anything which promotes the idea of Autism, Aspergers, neurological difference, or even neurodiversity in its most radical form. This still is an endorsement of the basic idea of Autism. And it is not redress, it is collaboration. In its most radical form it has no basis in objective reality. So really it is just aiding in the abuse which the Autism industry is, because it is not fighting it. The ways the Autism industry is attacking children is war. But with this radical neurodiversity movement, no perpetrators are being impacted.

    But I do want us to move from debating to action. There just have to be some common understandings.

    I am seeing this forum getting more and more anti-psychiatry. But the problems I have indicated are still here.

  • “Not necessarily. There is no requirement that a therapist listen from a point of view of superiority or of instructing the client on what is going on or what to do.”

    But the whole premise of the session, and of charging the fee, what could be the premise of it if not superiority?

    And in asking questions isn’t the therapist steering the client? I mean what experience does the therapist have with disruptive activism? Here activists refused to leave City Hall and so they were carried off to jail. And on other occasions they have crow bared into vacant city owned buildings, as a form of protest, and they got arrested.

    And then of the legal high water marks for holding perpetrators accountable, what does the therapist know about that?

    Isn’t the basic premise still that the client is going to do nothing?

    Jeffrey Masson says that the therapist is always just going to have to say that you just have to live with things, and that this is a universal part of how therapists are trained. They really don’t have anything else which they could offer. This is why he says, “The practice of psychotherapy is wrong because it is profiting off of other people’s misery.”

    I mean a lawyer will at least be honest up front. If they can’t take your case they will tell you so right off. But with the therapist they will listen and listen, letting you talk yourself out, knowing that there is nothing which they can do to help with the objective circumstances of your life.

    But with the therapist, they are pretending to agree with you, when in fact they know that to live you are expected to give up on such feelings, just like they have.

    I mean pain and frustration, that is how you look at it when you have given up on redress. I say that looking at it as pain and frustration is already yielding.

    As I see it, the therapist is a clean up artist, bringing people back into line who might otherwise remain disgruntled.

    That is how those mental health questionnaires work, being the basis of about half of the research reports on this forum. Anyone who is disgruntled does not really enjoy ~mental health~.

    And the therapists is not any kind of a comrade, say the wrong things to your therapist, and as people have already posted about, you can have police at your front door.

  • “program of strategic litigation to change the law for everyone.”

    Yes, that is exactly what I mean. Is there such a thing? I want to be involved and help in any way that I can. Please tell me how.

    https://openingoftheway.createaforum.com/

    By strategic litigation, as I understand it, you are trying to establish case precedents to open the door for broader lawsuits. Much of tort law just comes down to case precedents, and so it is like with the big tobacco lawsuits, it took many years and many suits to finally get results. And with the Catholic clergy sexual abuse lawsuits, work is still going on to expand the envelop of suits.

    And I will just state my own view here, that Psychtherapy and Recovery are things which discourage people from looking at legal redress, and instead try to get people to see it all as a self-improvement project.

    Thanks

  • Why would someone opt to be a psychotherapist if they did not see the locus of problems as being between the patient’s ears, and that the place to handle this was to be their office?

    And they must be able to see that no amount of therapy helps the client restore their public honor. In fact, the more weeks for which their life revolves around therapy and recovery, the further advanced becomes the narrative of defect and disorder. Makes it look like the client does not even understand the concept of honor and that they do not want honor.

    And why can’t these interpretations be generalized about therapists?

    Working shoulder to shoulder with comrades on the barricades is a good place to start when one wants to restore their honor.

  • Therapy and Recovery are based on the premise that life is hard and you feel distress because of things which happened long ago.

    I say that this is mostly just distraction. While we do want to bring to the surface what memories we can, this is difficult. And besides therapy and recovery are using a rotten model of cognition.

    The real reason that life is hard today is because a survivor does not have a legitimated biography. They are existing without honor.

    And time spent in the therapists office does not change this. In fact, the more weeks you spend with your life revolving around therapy and recovery, the further developed becomes a narrative of defect and disorder. It makes it look like you don’t even understand the concept of honor.

    The reason that survivors have no social and civil standing is that when people abuse us, nothing happens to them.

    I helped three girls get their molester father a long term in our state penitentiary. And his entire fundamentalist church had been standing behind him, making the daughters wrong.

  • We should have a lawyer referral service for anyone who had been labeled with ~Mental Illness~ or ~Autism Aspergers~.

    I know that recovering money over such issues will be a new area, but at least people can start to learn what the issues are, and where the high water marks are in litigation.

    And while it might not be possible to sue over the original abuses which are ~Mental Illess~ and ~Autism Aspergers~, it might be possible to sue over the sham ~treatments~ and ~activism~ which propagate the concepts and the sham of life without honor.

    Still hard to get people to sue their parents. But I say that it should be pretty easy to get people to sue their psychotherapists.

  • ~Mental illness~ is abuse. The concept is abusive, the so called treatments are abusive, the stigmatizing and often an original othering, are abusive. None of us should ever go along with this. Instead, it should be penalties for perpetrators and reparations for survivors, as these are about the only way of restoring public honor.

    And we should never support anything which propagates the idea of mental illness.

    This makes mental illness into a joke, and so it is not about penalties for perpetrators and reparations for survivors.

    Penalties for perpetrators and reparations for survivors is not a difficult concept. It is the way survivors of abuse can restore their public honor, so that they can again have the socio-public identity with which it is necessary to function.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYywl-KF4MQ

    Radical Neurodiversity and Mad Pride do not constitute resistance to a Biomedical and Eugenic paradigm, they constitute subservience to it by making it into a joke. It does not show that the whole thing is abuse to start with, and it is not about obtaining redress for abuse.

    Shari Karney was able to get laws changed, and as she explained, this is the reason why there are now $2 Billion in judgments against the US Roman Catholic Church.

    Julie Gregory is fighting to get prosecution for Muchausen’s perpetrators, and her book with medical records showing her own saga is compelling.

    I don’t believe that either of these survivors has received financial reparations, but no one would ever accuse either of them of life without honor, as their aggressiveness in acting against perpetrators is commendable.

    But if someone takes a Mad Pride or Radical Neurodiversity approach to abuses, how does that do anything to restore their public honor?

  • Rachel, kids are getting put on psych drugs. This should not be so, but it is. And the rate for kids in the Foster Care system is much higher.

    These drugs should be eliminated.

    But this does not mean that we have any less need for Child Protection and for the ability to remove children from families, both short and long term.

    We should be building better foster care, so that the court can have a broader slate of realistic options, and so that foster care does not have to be the resource of last resort.

    My own view is that we need adult communes, and that these should be the people who set up the foster care group homes. They can resemble an Israeli Kibbutz, rather then be run by people who are already socially and economically marginalized. They can be run by people who have freely opted for communal living, and so they do not see it as inferior to THE MIDDLE-CLASS FAMILY.

  • Yes, children have less protections of their rights than do those in many other industrialized nations. And tepid support for the UN Convention shows this. And this tepid support is primarily due to the influence of the Christian Right.

    Other countries have even outlawed corporal punishment, and the state of Minnesota has outlawed corporal punishment. But in the rest of the US, it is the Christian Right which defends the use of corporal punishment.

    CPS is required by federal law to investigate every credible complaint. But they can’t because federal law or no, they just don’t have the personnel. So they have no choice but to prioritize cases, based on the number of complaints and on what the complaints say, and then to allow some cases to fall thru the cracks, as newer complaints about more serious situations continue to come in.

    The abuse of children which occurs outside of the home will usually be investigated by police. If you know of such abuse, dial 911 right now.

    If you told me of such abuse, I would dial 911 right now, but probably I am not in your jurisdiction, so I would first have to find the phone number for your area’s police.

    CPS is primarily for protecting children from their parents, as this is a much more sensitive issue. Presumably the parents would do their best to protect their children for outside abusers, as best they can.

    CPS is a government agency, usually county or state. They don’t make profit. But they are tasked with removing children from abusive environments. No one else has this responsibility. And CPS does not do this on its own authority, except maybe for some very short term crisis situations, and where police are involved. But either way, there will be a court appearance the next day, and only on the authority of the court could they ever continue to hold onto a child.

    “I actually had to scare the school, where some of the abuse likely occurred, into closing down myself. By letting the gossip that the medical evidence of the abuse had been handed over, get around, via a criminal gossipy, likely pedophile pastor.”

    Well if you had knowledge of something abusive which was even suspected to be going on in a school, you should have dialed 911 at once. If you are a member of the public then you are not covered by mandatory reporting. But the people who run the school and work in it are. So if they fail to report on a suspected case of child abuse, then they will usually be guilty of both a State and a Federal Felony. If you have reason to believe that they are not complying with mandatory reporting, then you should again call 911. You might also call your county DA, your state AG, and federal DOJ.

    Again, if you even have suspicion, you should report what you have heard, and where you have heard it from, to law enforcement. The kinds of things you are describing sound more like matters for police than for CPS.

    If school staff has failed report, and this has allowed evidence to be destroyed, school property or anywhere else, than this is where they are really likely to get some straight time.

    CPS looks into the most serious complaints. It is supposed to be all complaints, but they do not have the resources. So they have to prioritize cases.

    People want CPS to uncover serious things, not just to remove children. And when they have more CASA volunteers to oversee children in the home and to be available if the child needs them, then they don’t have to remove as many children. Most children removed are allowed visitation and eventually returned.

    The “Distraught Parents” are a right wing political force, mostly driven by the Christian Right, because they consider children to be property, because their theology of Original Sin says that children need to be broken. So to them, there is no such thing as child abuse, because the child is always the one in the wrong.

    CPS investigates the cases which have the most serious complaints. They are supposed to investigate all cases, but they don’t have any where’s near the resources to do that.

    Book shows the types of things they typically deal with. Real cases, only names and a few identifying details changed:
    https://www.amazon.com/Somebody-Elses-Children-Struggle-Americas/dp/0595300782/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1564781426&refinements=p_27%3AJill+Wolfson&s=books&sr=1-2&text=Jill+Wolfson

    It is better to send CPS to a home, when it is just to be a knock and talk. Less disruptive than sending police.

    If CPS is coming with the decision already made to remove a child, then that will have been by court authority.

    If there is an emergency situation and CPS removes a child, then there will still be a court appearance within days. Keeping a child out of the home will always depend on the court’s decision, and at a contested hearing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96sRDV4fNmI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38nmIIOqW1A

    Remember, CPS and Law Enforcement cannot talk about their cases. Whereas the political right can talk ad nauseam to try and exonerate abusive parents, and to undermine the idea of child protection, and no one else with specific information can say anything.

    Child Protection is the most threatening area of law that the Right has ever faced.

    Judge Leonard Edwards
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs8gRMJnDug

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xzf0twsalI

    http://judgeleonardedwards.com/

    Improving Outcomes for Children in Child Protection Cases: Role of Child Advocate
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dEYM0ACivM

  • Alex, people can think what they think. And as you have demonstrated, people car write what they want to. But when you have programs being set up, telling people that serious abuses should be taken very lightly, made into some kind of a game (transhuman evolution), instead of helping people to seek and obtain redress for wrongs, I say that that is preying on survivors and legitimating the abuse of children and adults.

  • But when a psychotherapist is listening to the client, in a psychotherapy session, aren’t they listening from a point of superiority, feeling that they know things which the client does not, and that they will be able to tell the client things which the client would not know.

    And doesn’t that then mean that the therapist is right off ruling some of the views of the client as being invalid?

    From Franz Brentano to Sigmund Freud and to Psychoanalysis and Psychotherapy, versus from Franz Brentano to Edmund Husserl and to Phenomenology and Existentialism.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwit1uaGhuXjAhW3wMQHHUZ1BB4QFjAAegQIAxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsophos.berkeley.edu%2Fdreyfus%2Fpdf%2FAlternative%2520(Word98).pdf&usg=AOvVaw1haiE8_qIBPWD2WrIo7-ZR

  • Bonnie, I don’t go along with things like “Mad Pride”, because it creates the impression that ~mental illness~ is somehow real, and because it gets into an extremely serious area of delegitimation and abuse, yet it is not penalities for perpetrators and reparations for survivors.

    Do Japanese Americans throw parties to celebrate internment?

    So ~neurodiversity~, no matter how radical, seems to be the same thing, giving up on holding perpetrators accountable, giving up on restoring public honor.

    If someone has been labeled as ~Autistic~, then not only do they seem to be an abuse survivor, they have had their biography poisoned. It will not look like other people’s biographies. Very hard to remedy this. But one way is by fighting and obtaining redress.

    But making light of this idea like ~neurological difference~ does not do that.

    I cannot disrespect survivors that way, nor can I sit idly by and watch how others do it.

    I am obliged to oppose all such advocacy of ~neurodiversity~ and ~autism/aspergers~.

  • “That in the radical one, no one sees the differences in question as innate or as casual in any way. ” The LGBTQ movement has never run on “diversity” The racial civil rights movement had never run on “diversity” either. Such movements have to come from a much more forceful position. There is no reason there should be a radical neurodiversity movement. For one thing, it is starting with a concept of eugenic origins. People should be supported to be as great as they can be. Zero reason to like this to anything like “neurodivergence” “neurological difference” or “neurodiversity”. No reason to tie oneself to such labels.

  • Well I think people should not endorse or accept labels, especially when they are of Mental Hygiene and Eugenic origin. I think this gets to most basic issues of legitimacy, and so there can be zero compromise. It is a life and death issue.

    And specifically when it comes to ~Autism-Aspergers~ more than anything, that has always seemed like just a case of parents who find their child to be an embarrassment.

    And with all related matters, it is simply because the Middle-Class lives in Bad Faith, and the people who get it the worst then are the children.

    We must draw a line of zero tolerance for parents who have children so that they can do this.

    The hatred this Jayne Lytel has for her second son Leo, is intense.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Act-Early-Against-Autism-Fighting/dp/039953394X

    And as far as Anti-Psychiatry, R.W.’s books say nothing to endorse Psychotherapy or Recovery. He makes his point against the drugs, and does so brilliantly. But he does not try to make Psychotherapy and Recovery into the alternatives.

    On this forum though, it is dominated by people who promote Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Street Drugs, as the alterative to Psychiatry. This I cannot condone.

  • Getting people off of drugs is important.

    I don’t think other drugs should be given, at least not in most cases, maybe never.

    Some people will prescribe alcohol and street drugs for themselves, and that is bad enough.

    The proper response to Psychiatry is simply FU. We should not be promoting things which are similar, Psychotherapy, Recovery, or Life Coaching to take its place.

  • Foucault is important because he is the one who shows that modern social control works not with physical coercion, but it works between the ears, by making the subject believe that they are obliged to conduct themselves certain ways.

    Foucault developed these skill as a teenager when he had to endure a nationally prominent psychoanalyst whom his parents had sent him to.

  • Well no I don’t have more to say. Obviously what we need are Lawyers and not Psychiatrists or Psychotherapists.

    It is always a catch 22 situation, how do you address a disability issue without calling it that?

    I think though there are ways, and that if you can get it 100% outside of the disability arena, that that will work better. But I know that this is very difficult area, and I commend you for the work you are doing.

    I think this forum should be dealing primarily with legal issues, and that the rest of it is of dubious value.

  • Well some have said that Psychotherapy works well when the therapist lives in more non-conformist ways than the client.

    But this is usually not the case though because the clients tend to be more socially marginalized, whereas the therapist enjoys a good degree of wealth and legitimation.

    I imagine that when David Smale did therapy sessions that they were more like Philosophical Counseling, and that this new Diagnostic Manual is intended to steer it more that way.

    Please tell me if I am correct.

    Okay, but do we really want people making appointments with counselors of any type? How about peer relationships and political activism?

    If John Brown had consulted with a therapist, would he have raided Harper’s Ferry?

    If Huey Newton and Bobby Seale had consulted with therapists, would they have founded the Black Panther Party for Self Defense, and then approached Oakland Police while carrying fire arms?

    Would suffragettes in jail have gone on hunger strike and had to endure the feeding tube, if they had first consulted with therapists?

    Would Michel Foucault have gone on to be what he was, if he had submitted to the national renowned psychoanalyst his parents had sent him to in the 30’s?

    Here Shari Karney, she did see a therapist, but only for a while. Then she committed herself and worked tirelessly to find a way around SOL’s, finally just having to get the laws changed. This took about 10 years and involved much conflict. But as she said on her web page, this is why the US Roman Catholic Church has had $2 billion in judgments against it.

    Excellent made for TV movie:
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108110/

    I believe that if she stayed in therapy, or was the sort of person who would stay in therapy, then her legal fight never would have proceeded.

    Karney is a survivor of early childhood familial sexual molestation. And she never was able to sue her own parents. But she opened the door to all such suits, though most have been against large institutions. Seems to me that people are still not ready to deal with abuse within The Family.

    But no one would ever accuse Karney of just doing nothing, or of aiding the perpetrators. She is ferocious.

    So I put this forward as a question, and please tell me if I am wrong or right. Seems to me that a universal among therapists is that they are not interested in political fights over anything other than therapy. They are certainly not interested in revolutionary activities. Their view is that the issues and the solutions exist between the client’s two ears. While they won’t anymore do like Freud and call the client’s liars, they still see the client’s basic complaints as being unimportant. Rather, their objective is to help the client learn to live with things as they are.

    So I ask this as a question, and it is the basis of my claim that all forms of Psychotherapy revolve around something like Original Sin.

    Other’s knowing more than me have said this about Freud, that it is all based on a religious world view, and that it comes down the client being the one who is wrong.

    I see Life Coaching as wrong or foolish for the same reasons. But Life Coaching is likely to be shorter term and of more narrow focus, and it is not government endorsed.

    In the 70’s feminist groups would meet and discuss things like Incest, Rape, and other horrors of a life restricted to domesticity. They saw these rightly so as political issues.

    But in the 80’s concern of these issues spread to a broader and hence more conservative portion of the populace.

    Hence, it all became fodder for Therapy and Recovery.

    Susan Faludi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIC4uKSFpL0

    https://www.amazon.com/Rocking-Cradle-Sexual-Politics-Happened/dp/0201624710

    Today I read that psychotherapists say that the number one concern of millennials is that they will not be able to save enough money to retire.

    Okay, so is their therapist going to change anything about this?

    Why are they not at political meetings and in political protests and writing political articles, to try and bring this country to Social Democracy, and to end this politics of private wealth accumulation and of inflating the stock and real estate markets?

    When one emerges from the office of their therapist, what objective circumstance of their life has changed?

    I say, only if you believe in Original Sin, would you say that something has changed.

    Yes, the clients are part of the problem, they seem to always be attached to reactionary social and political views, and to me this is the real source of their problems.

    But you don’t find therapy clients leading the charge for legal redress. In a civilized society wrongs are redressed by law suits. And most other industrialized countries do not even allow disinheritance. But try to talk about this with therapy clients and they are mortified. They don’t want to even look at such ideas, because that would mean breaking out of the fantasy which therapy has created with its bad models of cognition, and seeing just how abusive this world really is.

    I talk online to people who believe in therapy, from other countries, and they talk about how their parents abused them. I ask them about their country’s more favorable inheritance laws, and they have zero knowledge of such. And I am talking here about even civil law countries where the client will not even need a lawyer to collect. Therapy has put them into this film representation type world, created by reflected memories made into a story line, and this is not how cognition works.

    Where you find people who want to fight, its in those like Shari Karney and in those like the Munchausen’s Survivor Julie Gregory, people who very early on excused themselves from Psychotherapy and Recovery.

    Gregory ends her book, not in therapy, but dialing Montana CPS, because her mother has got a foster child, and a whole new pile of medical books, and she seems to be doing the same stuff all over again.

    So I feel that the basic premise of therapy is that it is better to keep it within the therapist’s office. If this were not true, then therapists would have vast experience and knowledge about legal and political fights.

    We want people hooking up with political comrades, people who are willing to take to the barricades.

    What does the therapist think their sessions do, unless they believe in Original Sin or otherwise have a low opinion of the client?

    Jeffrey Masson says that virtually all of the stuff discussed with a therapist would be better discussed in some other venue. I have yet to see anything myself which contradicts this.

    Deleuze and Guattari say that Psychoanalysis, but meaning Psychotherapy too, have been created by Captialism and that they are completely parasitic.

    There is this 4 hour BBC documentary, Century of Self. It is a deep and cutting critique of all forms of Psychoanalysis, Psychotherapy, and Psychology, and its effect on politics.

    They start by showing this Psychoanalysts Ball held annually in Vienna. People say that because of Psychoanalysis, people can speak freely. Example, say someone is a maid. If they tried to complain about this they would be rebuked for not accepting their social position.

    Whereas with Psychoanalysis they are free to say what they feel.

    Well, is this really true? A most basic area will be the exploitation and abuses which are the middle-class family. So the client starts to speak. But does the therapist really side with them? Usually the therapist will say things which tend to exonerate the parents, and which tend to excuse what happened as being of the past, the old pedagogy manuals.

    And Jeffrey Masson writes that it is part of the training to at a certain point stop listening and shift to trying to get the client to accept what has happened and to forgive.

    And isn’t it true that Psychotherapy is just Pedagogy Round 2? It promotes the ideology of the family.

    Try to get the client to kneel down and worship the Holy Family, while acknowledging that there have been mistakes and errors, and that the old pedagogy manuals were worse than the new ones.

    But the client must not see that the entire system is rotten, and all Pedagogy Manuals are just lessons in how to abuse children and get away with it. The angry client is to be turned into a helpless neurotic.

    In D and G’s Anti-Oedipus they have a very funny little skit which Jacques Lacan had published, making fun of psychoanalysis over this.

    And they quote Antonin Artaud saying something which shows the neuroticism which Psychoanalysis and Psychotherapy are predicated on.

    D and G call this “Oedipalizing”. And the schizo is someone like Artaud, who cannot be Oedipalized. So of course this is where the mental health system would really bear down.

    Alice Miller writes about artistic representations of the Sacrifice of Isaac. Why is Isaac always mute and compliant?

    She says that if Isaac were to raise his hand against Abraham, then “that would start the war that we all fear.”

    Well this is where we see the limitations of Alice Miller. Its her Psychoanalytic training, its the effects of religion, and I say that also she was weakened by her experiences in the Warsaw Ghetto.

    She finally wants Isaac to just ask “Why?”

    I say that we have to strike back, we have to bring on a revolution, whether we fear it or not. I do not fear it in any way at all.

    Paul Mones says that most of what we know about familial child abuse comes from the Richard Janeke patricide case from Cheyenne Wyoming.

    People learn when thing happen, and they happen regularly. And we all learn when we act. I learned a huge amount from being intensely involved in a child sexual molestation prosecution.

    I say that it never will be like this in the therapist’s office, and that someone is a therapist because they have committed themselves to the view that it is better to keep it in the therapist’s office. And I see this as being a universal truth.

  • Child Protective Services and the Juvenile Dependency Court have an extremely difficult job to do. By law they are required to investigate every credible complaint. The basic investigation is just an unannounced knock and talk. If that goes off and there are no other complaints and they don’t hear or see anything of concern then that is the end of the matter.

    If CPS wants to do more than that, it will always depend on the decision of a Judge.

    But as it stands, huge numbers of complaints get no response. They just don’t have the resources, and so they have to prioritize complaints, based on what they think they might find. So in some counties it is in the hundreds of thousands per year, the number of cases which get zero action.

    This book is 20 years old now, but very well written and showing the types of things they have to deal with. I feel that it is a good now as then.

    https://www.amazon.com/Somebody-Elses-Children-Struggle-Americas/dp/0595300782/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1564611760&refinements=p_27%3AJill+Wolfson&s=books&sr=1-2&text=Jill+Wolfson

    It is based entirely on real cases and from the court of the nationally renowned judge Leonard Edwards. And he is a strong believer in the value of CASA volunteers, because that enables them to remove far less children.

    That this is the proper function and duty of government has been found to be so in the US Constitution, and by the responsible courts.

    I remember one County DA explaining on TV news during one of our many boom caused busts, that during the down economy the child abuse cases had gotten worse, and so they were also applying torture charges.

    Having sat through one child molestation trial, I saw first hand that there are attorney’s who specialize in making child protection laws unenforceable. And just as is done with adult rape trials, they try to turn it back on the victims. This guy had obviously studied family conflicts and figured out how to turn it back on the child. The guy was the worst sort of a scum bag.

    Most of the pressure against child protection seems to come from the Religious Right. But I am convinced that it is also because the newspapers don’t cover the cases. I think this is for the sake of the victims, but the result is that the public does not understand what is going on. The public really has no idea.

    300 Parricides per year for the US, most all resulting from extreme child abuse.

    https://www.amazon.com/When-Child-Kills-Children-Parents/dp/067167420X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=when+a+child+kills&qid=1564612499&s=books&sr=1-1

    I got to shake the hand of Paul Mones when he was in town pro-bono.

    And this goes way back, The US being one of the last large economy nations to sign the UN Convention on Rights of the Child. Extreme abuse has always been there, and the first child protection case had to use newly enacted US laws to prevent cruelty to animals.

    https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Plain-Sight-Childrens-Franklin/dp/0691146217/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?keywords=hidden+in+plain+sight+child+abuse+un+convention+on+rights+of+the+child&qid=1564612695&s=books&sr=1-2-fkmr1

  • Marx taught ancient Greek Philosophy. I have always assumed that some of his thinking has to be coming from Plato’s Republic and this idealized nation state where “no one would know whom their parents were.”

    In my view Plato never saw this as something which could be implemented. Ray Bradbury calls it the “first work of science fiction.”

    In the 1848 Manifesto they do affirm that they want to abolish the family. But they never explain anything more about how this would be accomplished.

    Marx’s ideas are mostly an inversion of what Hegel laid out, and Marx affirmed that his thinking is also dependent upon Ludwig Feuerbach, particularly in the criticism of religion and of the ideal of the Holy Family.

    Rousseau’s ideas are mostly a reification of nature. Marx does not do this. He makes no references to anything being “natural”.

    But you see Rousseauism in play anytime people start talking about “What is Natural” and reifying that, and especially today in the fascination people have with Pedagogy Manuals.

    Foucault is the diametric opposite of Rousseau, and he has more than anyone I think, really thought it all through.

    But Marx does start off, in the Manifesto, explaining that the French Revolution did not go far enough, because it left the Bourgeoisies in charge. He gives extremely insightful criticism of what the problems are with this. I think as valid today as it was then. But as far as what might take its place, he says precious little.

    There are lots of things written since which give a much better treatment of the same issues than Marx and Engels were able to in 1848.

    Reading now a book about Annie Besant who was a Labor Movement Leader and a “Fabian Socialist” in England in the 1880’s. She and most of her colleagues did not go for Marx. They wanted Ballot Box Socialism, and so they knew that their ideas had to be moderated.

    They saw Marx as promising violence. I don’t think he says this, but he is encouraging people to dig in and hold out, and to be ready to continue the French Revolution, so I guess then that would eventually lead to violence.

    In a country which has some history of electoral democracy, it seems unreasonable to assume that any group could hold power for very long, if not supported at the ballot box. But WWI took down 4 empires, so I can see how regime change would then result.

    Besant seemed to eventually give up on Socialism in England, I think just because progress on even something like school lunches proved so difficult. So she became involved in the movement for India’s Independence, and in occult matters.

  • You probably don’t hear today’s rhetoric of the right. Being involved in other things, I do hear it, and it continues to shock me.

    They do speak about Socialism, Communism, Homosexuality, Liberalism, Feminism, and Autism as though they are social hygiene disorders. And they describe immigrants and racial minorities and Muslims as a social menace and as inferiors. If they had some theory being fed to them, they would describe all of these things as being caused by genetics.

    It seems to come from the online version of Right Wing Hate News.

    Kind of like Fox, and kind of like that Steven Bannon and Breitbart News, and like some of the stuff in the Men’s Rights / MGTOW / PUA movements, but always much more extreme.

    A big block of the population has its world view formed by this kind of stuff and nothing else.

    And then there are the Ayn Rand followers, like Rep Paul Ryan.

    And then there are the Christian Nationalists.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393329763/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i1

  • Awesome article Bonnie. I can’t believe that someone could write this just in the time since your last article, not unless you were already highly conversant in these matters.

    Now you know that Social Dawinism was a doctrine of the late 19th Century. It got started in the UK, but it really came into its own though in the US.

    And then even with the populist reactionary William Jennings Bryan, he objected so to Social Darwinism, and to Darwinism because, being Secretary of State, of the carnage he saw from WWI. I certainly am not a Creationist, but I can respect someone who was that deeply influenced by WWI carnage, and saw it as being related to a low regard for human life.

    The kind of Social Darwinism which gets spouted today is a later development, more pseudo scientific. The idea runs something like, we have laws of evolution, and these favor the greatest. But then you have the laws of Democracy, and these substitute numbers, and so Democracy is counter evolutionary. This one speech was the key to street brawlers winning the support of the Business and Finance Sectors, Industry Club in Dusseldorf. This speech has been printed in books going way back. I only connect to this kind of a source because it is online.

    http://www.der-fuehrer.org/reden/english/32-01-27.htm

    And he talks about ~Bolshevism~ as some kind of moral and genetic degeneracy. He will still be talking like that Nov 1942 as Allied Troops are landing in North Africa. And then in Aug 1943, as Italians are throwing down their rifles and running and turning against their own Fascists, it’s still ~Bolshevism~ and the ~N-word~. And then in Paris in the weeks following June 6, 1944 the black shirt wearing Vichy Propagandist Philippe Henriot is screaming into radio that Liberation will not occur in his lifetime and talking about famine and starvation and using those same two words, ~Bolshevism~ and the ~N-word~.

    And while Berliners might have been tolerant of homosexuality, and homosexuals had been quite welcomed in the Nazi Party, this did not mean that the rest of the population shared such views. Things changed once power was obtained. They blamed the Reichstag Fire on a homosexual communist and beheaded him. And then at the end of June 1934, Night of the Long Knives, when Rohm had expanded the SA to 8 million men and was clearly threating the Reich, his homosexuality was used as the reason to kill him.

    All of the methods of isolating and stigmatizing, and the all of the pseudo science used to justify the extermination, were practiced and perfected on homosexuals and communists, before these were then applied to larger population segments.

    They called people who did not conform to their pseudo science “Contragenics”. There was a continuum, the worst being homosexuals, but then also including unmarried people, childfree married couples, and married people with a small number of children. Only married people with a large number of children were exempt from this labeling.

    https://www.amazon.com/Pink-Triangle-Nazi-Against-Homosexuals-ebook/dp/B0058U7HPI/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=pink+triangle+nazi&qid=1564605246&s=gateway&sr=8-1

    Some years back there was talk that there could be a “gay gene”. I ask, and especially with all the amniocentesis, is that really a good way to go?

    I doubt that any such gene ever will be located, things just don’t seem to work like that when it comes to human behavior. But even talking about it, does not seem good to me. Would LGBTQ activists want to advance the idea of ‘Neuro Logical Difference”, “Neuro Divergent”, or “Neuro Diversity”? I would hope not.

    In my view, people want these kinds of biomedical explanations because they have already been so bullied and stigmatized that they feel that they need something, anything, to legitimate their own existence.

    Ever since the dotcom boom in the 90’s, our official and popular politics has really been just Social Darwinism.

    And then here, showing how it took the Eugenics Movement, the Mental Hygiene Movement, Universal Schooling, and a definite contribution from the Nazi Party, until you could have the concepts of Autism and Aspergers.

    https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Autism-Unravelling-Understanding-Social/dp/0415321816

    And also the ~works~ of Hans Asperger were unknown in the US, untranslated, until the mid 90’s. So people were not getting ~diagnosed~ with ~Aspergers~ in the US, or anywhere in the English speaking world, until the mid 90’s, and ~Autism~ was still thought of as something more disabling. So I think they were telling people that they had ~ADHD~ when they seemed to be somewhat insulated from the Herd.

    And then with the rise of Neo-Liberalism, starting in the late 70’s with Margaret Thatcher, continuing with Ronald Reagan and with his right wing economists, and then made into a kind of social chic during the dotcom boom, you get a vast popularization of the ideas of Autism and Aspergers, and going to the concept totally unsupported by any evidence, of “neurological difference” and then “neurodiversity”. I am convinced that this is a huge mistake.

    One of the biggest boosters for the ~New Economy~ and for this idea that Autism – Aspergers – Neurological Difference being a chic, was this Wired Magazine, showcasing the business movers and shakers, and also employing one Steve Silberman.

    https://www.amazon.com/NeuroTribes-Legacy-Neurodiversity-Silberman-2015-08-25/dp/B01F7X7SUE/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=steve+silberman&qid=1564602717&s=books&sr=1-2

    Sami Timimi and his coauthors are totally opposed to the idea of ~neurological difference~ and for any kind of a computer industry chic, and they say that the reason for the explosion in ~Autism~ assessments if simply the rise of Neo-Liberalism, Tony Blair, and the associated desire to dismantle the welfare state. Timimi calls the move to try and do ~Autism~ accessments, “Psychiatric Policing~ and a resurgence of the Eugenics Movement.

    https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medicalising-Emotional-Competence/dp/0230545262

    Bonnie, it looks to me like there is so much which we are likely to agree on.

    Today the authorities want to keep the stigmatized groups in a condition of being pitiful. That way the Work Ethic can still be upheld and the stigmatized will not organize or become militant. You find this where it comes to just Poverty, as well as where it comes to Disability.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0679745165/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0

  • Steve McCrea, can you offer anything which psychotherapy does, besides being an opiate and telling people that it is morally superior to live in the very small social space which the abusers have left?

    “The practice of Psychotherapy is wrong because it is profiting from another person’s misery.”
    https://www.amazon.com/Jeffrey-Moussaieff-Masson-Emotional-Psychological/dp/B008WDKKHK/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=jeffrey+masson+against+therapy&qid=1564536210&s=gateway&sr=8-2

    Any alternative view to:

    “Psychiatry and Psychotherapy turn your experience of injustice into a medical problem and a self-improvement project”.
    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Social-Family-Radical-Thinkers/dp/1781687595/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=anti+social+family&qid=1564536271&s=gateway&sr=8-1

  • ~Mental Illness~ and ~Autism / Aspergers~ I guess they could be considered as an injury. Either you are in trauma, or you have just been duped. Either type is an injury, so I guess such could be a past disability.

    I still don’t like the idea though of going into disability territory.

    Rather just see it as common tort.

    My .02

  • So when you emerge from your therapist’s office, nothing has changed. You are still living with a voided biography, living without honor, because you have not done anything to restore your honor.

    The only way of restoring your honor is to engage with worthy foes and vanquish them. This is how it works in the Parceval Myth. He is always redressing wrongs and vanquishing foes. Even maidens who had been rude, get a suitable rebuke.

  • So adopting an identity label of “homosexual” then is not something I would recommend without some research. And then presenting it as an appeal to tolerance, that is never a good idea.

    Using labels like ~Autism~ and ~Neurological Difference~, how is that any different from making an appeal to tolerance?

    Autism is not Shamanism, it is a creation of the Mental Hygiene and Eugenics movements.

  • Defining negative experiences, Darkest Moments, as a need for medical attention, or as a need from some sort of moral improvement lectures, is PREDATORY.

    People will often undergo stress and need to respond to situations. But this does not mean medical or moral improvement. Best situation is if they can be politically active and be open and gain support from Comrades.

    A psychiatrist, psychotherapist, or Life Coach is not a comrade.

  • People may have endured trauma. Most certainly many will have.

    But this does not mean that anyone should sit still and listen to someone telling them that they need therapy or recovery.

    We need survivors to stand up for themselves, and this does not mean listening to therapists. It means penalties for perpetrators and reparations for survivors.

  • Autism does not exist, but what created and perpetuates the concept?

    1. Captialism
    2. The Middle-Class Family
    3. The Self-Reliance Ethic, a capitalist over coding
    4. Mental Hygiene and Eugenics Movement
    5, and now, Resurgence of Mental Hygiene and Eugenics in service of Neo-Liberalism

    Schizophrenia does not exist. But what created and perpetuates the concept?

    1. Captialism
    2. The Middle-Class Family
    3. The Self-Reliance Ethic, a capitalist over coding
    4. Mental Hygiene and Eugenics Movement
    5, and now, Resurgence of Mental Hygiene and Eugenics in service of Neo-Liberalism

    People should not be promoting the concept of neurodiversity, radical or otherwise.

    And making appeals to diversity or tolerance on any central identity issues is highly unadvisable. It amounts so submitting to abusers and inviting the worst sort of backlash.

  • Continued from above:

    And I have heard accounts of things like this, of a mother describing how something really deep was set off in her when she saw the child being on the ground, surrounded and bullied by other children.

    Its like that incident made her forever disown the child, and may indeed have started the child down the road of not being one of the herd, of somehow being different. And today he or she would probably get labeled as ~Autistic~.

    And then in Lytel’s book there are graphic scenes which show you how much Lytel and the husband hate their son Leo, and this is without any white coats or labels in the picture.

    And then I did not think of this when I first read Lord of the Flies, the character Simon. If I had to today pick someone who is the prototype of what the ~Autism~ proponents are talking of, it would be him.

    He was sitting in a closed thicket, communing with nature. Jack and his hunters had gotten all worked up chasing a pig. The pig broke into the thicket, followed by Jack and his people. They right away turned on Simon, and he was the first boy that they killed.

    No reason is given why they would want to kill Simon, no deliberation about it, it just happened. I would say that they killed him because they had already known that he was not really one of them.

    And this book predates most of the ~Autism~ hysteria, and the book never uses any labels or tries to explain Simon.

    Most people are in the herd, and they are of it too. They don’t need to think about it, they probably are not even capable of thinking about it, they just do what the herd expects.

    But some of us are not really of the herd, we think outside of it.

    Autism is nonsense, Autism and Aspergers are just concepts invented to justify the abuse of children and adults. And I think it a horrible mistake to be perpetuating and biologizing these via ~neurological difference~.

    Okay, but there are people who for whatever reason seem to have Mystical Abilities, and often with High Intelligence. Most of today’s people claiming to be ~Autistic~ would probably all into this category, Mystical Abilities and High Intelligence. Its just that once someone accepts the idea of ~Autism~ they are accepting all of its Eugenic Foundations, and this of course includes the Self-Reliance Ethic.

    So for example John Elder Robison and Temple Grandin could be interesting people, were it not for the fact that their entire world view is shaped by the need to hold up the Self-Reliance Ethic and show their unquestioning support for it.

    Based on a book I read long ago in college, I would say that these are the people who are probably going to get made into Shamans, Mystical Abilities and High Intelligence. And I think I want to drop the idea of High Intelligence, as that gets to Lewis Termann and to the same sorts of Mental Hygiene and Eugenics stuff. If someone is not of the herd, then they will have high intelligence automatically.

    Really it is Mystical Abilities, and that just means not being of the herd.

    Both men and women, but more men.

    Book said that in primitive societies adults scrutinize children for signs of mystical abilities. They value shamans.

    When the find one, the first thing they do is separate the child from the parents. And this does seem to be the key and the life saving step!

    They are placed then under the care of an adult shaman. Their path to adulthood will be longer and it will entail more risk. Whereas normals reach adulthood at sexual maturity, a shaman does not reach adulthood until much later, perhaps as late as age 30. It might entail vision quests and finding a totem spirit.

    And the life of a shaman will be more risky, usually. People may feel jealous of the shaman or threatened by the shaman. But nevertheless, they serve an important roll. But as Shamanism is probably something which is possible in all of us, and because it goes way back, so people have an in bread fear of it, or a fear that their child could go that way. Separation from the parents is crucial.

    A book about esotericism I read said that with most births the child resembles the parents. But there are some births which come from above, where the child will not resemble the parents, and these births are always announced. Citing Isaac, Samuel, and John the Baptist to name but a few.

    So is Shamanism ~Autism~? No it is not. ~Autism~ is a concept which is perpetuated to justify the abuse of children and adults.

    Where does autism come from, what created it?

    Autism is created by

    1. Captialism
    2. The Middle-Class Family
    3. The Self-Reliance Ethic, a capitalist over coding
    4. Mental Hygiene and Eugenics Movement
    5, and now, Resurgence of Mental Hygiene and Eugenics in service of Neo-Liberalism

  • Continued From Above:

    I want to say this now, I have not read this anywhere, but it is influenced by things I have read. and I have since read things which show that others have thought this way.

    I believe that the abuse, the othering, the scapegoating associated with ~Autism~ go way way back, before any of the terminology existed. Buy this I mean, ~Autism~ is just a label being applied, and applied in the most negative of ways, to something which has existed in the human community since time immemorial.

    For one thing, I cite this Jayne Lytel in her horrid book, “Act Early Against Autism”. She speaks of being at the Yale Lab, getting her son Leo tested, and she speaks of how it just tore her guts out when the doctor said the wod “Autism”

    To Be Continued

  • Continued from above:

    Sure we have an Autism Industry, part of our nationwide nexus of FixMyKid Doctors. And then we have parents who want to find the locus of Original Sin in their child, and who have children for that reason.

    But now, these self identifying ~Autistics~ who are promoting the ideas themselves?

    Well, it helps them exonerate perpetrators.

    And it does matter how we use it. Like Wittgenstein explained, there is no such thing as private language. So if you want to use ~radical neurodiversity~ or ~autism~ in some other way, or like an emerging species of super humans who are going to take over the world, that does not mean that I am going to go along with it.

    And I want to reply just a bit to Bonnie here, because I feel that she really is missing some crucial things. There was this Magnus Hirschfeld, and here it talks about Roehm’s troops ( Brown Shirts, SA ) destroying the Hirschfeld’s Sex Research Institute in 1933.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=_H2RBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT85&lpg=PT85&dq=magnus+hirschfelder&source=bl&ots=guJxCgzYdA&sig=ACfU3U0rSGZqvYNpy-c969AfjBX_LtPHNQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwid6IWrm9vjAhVWGDQIHUjiDeoQ6AEwAnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=magnus%20hirschfelder&f=false

    Well Hirschfeld was at that time the leading thinker on homosexuality. Though I don’t think he called it that. He understood homosexuals as a third sex, and this was what he explained in his books.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Hirschfeld

    And there had been this serial child killer Fritz Haarmann in Hanover Germany. In 1925 he was apprehended and convicted and executed. But it seemed highly likely that what Haarmann was convicted of doing actually required a great deal of help, and coming from the Nazis who controlled Hanover police. Haarmann was being used as a provoking agent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haarmann

    The populace was terrified of this killer. they sung ditties about him. There was the claim that remains of murdered children were being cut up and sold as horse meat. But who ever may have done that, was getting official assistance.

    Haarmann was like their Jeffrey Dahmer.

    And so the Nazi’s used all of this to discredit Wiemar tolerance of homosexuality. In fact, ordinary Germans were somewhat tolerant of homosexuality, and especially in the big cities.

    But when economic times got tough, and people were being told that homosexuals were the reason, and then this child killing, then that tolerance went away.

    So the Nazi’s used this, and their control of Hanover Police, to discredit the liberal views of homosexuality.

    Magnus Hirshfeld, having no direct evidence about these crimes, he was brought in as an expert witness to try and discredit the attacks on homosexuals. But the Nazi’s turned the entire thing into a show trial, not of Haarmann, but of Wiemar liberalism and of this “tolerance” approach towards homosexuality. The Nazi’s won, totally terrifying people about homosexuality. And clearly this opened the door to their later interment and final execution of homosexuals.

    So I want to draw your attention to this.

    1. I am not sure that the word homosexual is entirely neutral and problem free.
    2. Generally a tolerance based approach is stupid, whether it be for sexual orientation, or this non-sense “neuological difference”. The only real way is a militant self defending approach.
    3. You or I may use these diagnostic terms and mean no harm, but I think that is also a mark of ignorance. Autism is today often used to convey the sense of some sort of disorder and propensity for extreme violent crime. And like with the Haarmann case, people who want to can really agitate and inflame the public.
    4. You don’t want to be opening doors to labeling. Best to always meet such labels with a cold like steel refusal, and a demonstration of willingness to defend self an others.
    5. So no, I think people do have to be careful about “homosexual”, but about “autism and neurodiversity” even more so. And remember, Hirshfeld thought there really were 3 sexes, and no one goes along with that today.

    TO BE CONTINUED

  • People see that “Brain Chemical Imbalance” is nonsense, and so they refute it.

    Why would the same people then go along with “neurological difference”. It is the same biomedical model, something which could somehow, scanning electron microscope on brain biopsy slides, explain human behavior.

    Suppose I wrote a book,

    “Does Your Child Have Evil Spirits In their Brain?”
    “Learn how you can save your child and save yourself.”

    And then if I worked with children and parents to promote this, and real children were harmed, don’t you think I should be sued for everything I had, if not incarcerated?

    Why are people putting up with “neurodiversity” and “radical neurodiversity”?

    I wrote of my short term ~autistic~ girlfriend above. Bad enough that people were telling her that she had ~autism~, but then to make it worse by saying that there is some genetic or neurological basis for it, when there is no evidence for this anymore than there is of ~Brain Chemical Imbalance~.

  • “general aversion towards those working within the mental health system”

    I am not averse to the mental health system, I am 100% opposed to it.

    Yes, Foucault was a licensed psychotherapist. He was actually the first person in France to earn such a license, as they had just created that new class of license.

    But that was a long time ago, at the early part of his adult life, before he wrote most of his critical works. I am sure that he did not continue to practice as a psychotherapist.

    Well, slavery and other types of racial injustice have gone on longer than they otherwise might have, because many of those being oppressed aided the oppressors. In France such persons would be called collaborators. In the US we have a different term.

    The mental health system creates a delegitimated class of persons, so it is like slavery.

    The mental health system does not create justice, it perpetuates oppression. Someone who did not want to do this would not be part of the mental health system. I am not averse to it, I am in open opposition to it.

    Someone who helps perpetuate gross injustice is culpable. After Nuremburg this is settled international law.

    The mental health system tries to make people believe that their distress originates from their own short comings. For the most part the are able to achieve their objective.

    The Self-Reliance Ethic is important here, being really a broader version of the Work-Ethic. Astute observers have long noted that in order for Capitalism to have been accepted, there has to be something like a cosmic debt which people were made to believe in. Well basically this is the religions doctrine of Original Sin.

    And then in most cases where someone is made to believe in ~Mental Illness / Brain Chemical Imbalance~ or ~Autism/Aspergers / Neurological Difference~ it is the Middle-Class Family which is in play. It exists in order to exploit and abuse children, in order to make them conform. Most of the time this works as intended. But when it doesn’t, you have Mental Health Enforcement and you have Neurological Difference Enforcement.

    All of these things originated in the Mental Hygiene and Eugenics Movements, and these are resurfacing now because they are most useful for the currently popular Neoliberalism.

    Foucault is the one who recognized the problems with this and best explained them first.

    “Personal Responsibility” is just pedagogy, lecturing to people as though they were children. Must show no tolerance towards this.

    When one is being influenced by the mental health system, suicide becomes more likely because they are trying to convince you that it is better to live without honor. That kind of a life does not deserve to be called life, it is just one small step above a vegetative existence, living in the very small social space which the abusers have left, living in the therapist’s office.

  • No one is saying that Autism is an illness. But then really, that does not mean anything. We could say that mental illness is not an illness. Some times ~mental illness~ is used to make allowances for people, even to get them off for crimes. Other times ~mental illness~ is used to indict someone, even to convict them of crimes.

    Autism can and does work exactly the same way, and it is used in these ways regularly.

    So why would anyone want to pin a label on themselves?

    And why do we want to call for “diversity” when there is no proof of difference, no benefit obtained by claiming the difference.

    I walk into a café, one guy is talking with his friend, two women are talking to each other. Another guy is eating food. I am intending to read a book.

    Which one of us needs to call for “diversity” in order to be accepted as legitimate?

    Remember, the first best line of defense when you’re legitimacy is attacked, is the middle finger.

    Some people will attack your legitimacy, but packaging it as For Your Own Good. Again, the middle finger, or harsh toned direct words, will usually solve that problem.

    But some people need lessons in respecting people and their privacy. So if the middle finger does not work, I will usually go into Marine Corp Drill Sergeant Mode.

    Face 2 face, people do not try to mess around with me.

    And so what is this Neurodiverstiy Movement, and things like the Autism Self Advocacy Network?

    Walker asks how we deal with Autistic people? Well in the work place and in community service groups, one finds all sorts of people, with all sorts of communications styles. So how do you deal with them? You deal with them no differently than anyone else. You just have to be tolerant. I don’t mean tolerant of their category of difference, and I don’t mean making presumptions about them. I mean just tolerant of them as they are.

    I want to tell a brief story here, decades ago, for a while I had an autistic girlfriend. Or rather I should say, I had a girlfriend who had been convinced that she was autistic.

    I was only a year older than she, and she told me about the institution she lived in. It was only by happenstance that I met her.

    She was not different from anybody else. She was just as communicative and engage able.

    In those days I did not know anything about Autism, other than as shown in that movie RainMan. And I thought autistics did not talk at all.

    This girl was nothing like that, just like everybody else.

    I still though did come to feel that it would be a mistake to keep seeing her. The issue was simply that I thought it would be taking advantage of her. Its not that she was disabled in any way. It was simply the disadvantage, the compromised personhood which she was experiencing in living in the institution. She was at a huge social disadvantage, and this did come across.

    Overall I would say that she was guileless. Her feeling were right there on the surface. I see this as a positive. But I also know that she would have a hard time in adolescent girl culture. And then no tight or revealing clothes, no high heels, no makeup, no bombshell hair. She would be targeted.

    But this does not mean that there was anything wrong about her, or any reason she should have to accept a ~neurological difference~ label.

    There was however one thing which stood out. And I have seen strange issues related to this in girls before. She had strabismus in one eye. In my view, particularly with a girl, that will change how people react to her.

    Why did the parents send her to this school? Why did the parents have her ~accessed~? Were the parents embarrassed by her, as comes across in many autism narratives? Was she being targeted in a Muggle Bully School?

    She should not have had to have been institutionalized. A well run communal home would have been better.

    Louis Theroux’s Video About Autism is really good. But it is down. Autism is really controversial, and most of the advocacy has been parents defending themselves, or now this Recovery Movement version. Theroux’s video was not pro-parents.

    Here is his Medicated Kids Video, but it too is not kind to parents, and the video has been adulterated. Still worth watching.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezLbzJcr7QQ

    Someone believes that they have Autism, then they are an abuse survivor. It is not necessarily the parents, and they do not cause Autism. They couldn’t, Autism does not exist.

    But convincing someone that they have Autism, or the Neurological Difference, that is abuse.

  • Milan wrote,

    “Not sure I follow your point. Imagine the opposite — if psychiatric professionals didn’t propagate the advantage of continued life, then surely suicide would be even more common?

    And the torturous path you mention: are you not disposing the responsibility of each individual, who often seeks psychiatric help and not the other way round?

    Capitalism depends upon the Middle-Class Family, and this operates via the Self-Reliance Ethic. What backs it up, an enforcing arm of the state, is the mental health system.

    So the mental health system advances the self-reliance ethic by making people feel that they are responsible for problems they encounter in life. It is rather like if you had someone who was angry because they were enslaved. A mental health professional would be called in to make that person believe that it is right that they are enslaved, converting an angry slave to a happy slave.

    The one who has thought this through the best is Michel Foucault. The state used to have to wield the power of execution to keep people in line. But now, all it has to do to keep people in line is refuse to grant them permission to die.

    A mental health professional is a licensed officer of the state. Their primary function is to convince people that it is morally superior not to try and redress wrongs, not to try and punish perpetrators and not seize reparations for survivors. They are committed to convincing you that submission to the state is morally superior to reclaiming your public honor.

    And so, existence without honor often does lead to suicide. I can’t even call such an existence life.

    The desire to utter great words and perform great deeds is evolutionarily developed, because with public honor, you are valued and the tribal group will work with you, help protect you, and often follow your lead.

    Someone ends up in the mental health system because their life has been derailed. The mental health system is licensed to discourage you from striking back in order to restore your honor. It wants you to accept abuse and injustice, and just to go on existing.

    Suicide is likely when someone is forced into to this.

  • Joey wrote, ” bathe three to four times weekly in sulfur salts, as my ‘autistic’ liver (a non-psychological organ) does not process enzymatically without the sulfur I absorb through my skin, which my ‘autistic’ liver cannot produce on its own. My brain chemistry works differently – sedatives keep me awake, and stimulants put me to sleep, much to the chagrin of anesthesiologists who have had me wake up in the middle of surgeries in spite of their best efforts.”

    You are helping to demonstrate what Sami Timimi etal are saying, “Autism does not exist.” One of the reasons they say this is that it is so broadly defined as to no longer mean anything.

    I have no idea what is going on with your liver or with these sulfur salts. Sounds like you are in need of some serious medical treatment right away.

    As far as having a different brain chemistry, no one knows that. Refuting that kind of an idea is the primary focus of this forum. Whittaker does an excellent job of this.

    You also wrote, “Autistics are approaching 25% of live-births worldwide, and will, within a century, be the “typical” of this neurodivergent species.”

    Well that 25%, and of both males and females, is the largest number I have ever heard. This explosion in the assessment rates is again one of the factors that Timimi etal point to to bolster their position, “autism does not exist.”

    People get marginalized and mistreated, so then medical theories like Autism-Aspergers give them some hope that eventually someone will find a reason. But this does not mean that such reasons have any objective reality.

    And no, I do not speak for you, and you have your rights to free speech, as do I, and as do Timimi etal.

    Here, best analysis I have found explaining where the concept of Autism comes from:

    https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Autism-Unravelling-Understanding-Social-ebook/dp/B00F2H3EP4

    The picture created is simply one of universal schooling, psychiatry, eugenics, and the middle-class family.

    But you Joey are free to say whatever you think. I would just like to point out that that freedom does not depend upon any neuro-diversity theory. And tying it to such a theory is, in my view, a big mistake.

    What Nick Walker and Bonnie Bustow are doing amounts to telling people that they have Autism-Aspergers. I consider this to be reprehensible, and I hope some of us can put out the counter and correct message, that Autism does not exist.

    Walker and Bustow are making people’s very existence contingent on this bogus political theory, Libertarianism, in this idea they have of Cognitive Liberty, and to do this they are promoting and idea which has zero evidence, Neurodiversity. Not good at all.

    Sami Timimi book:
    https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medicalising-Emotional-Competence/dp/0230545262/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=myth+of+autism+sami+timimi&qid=1564175034&s=digital-text&sr=8-1

    Video, Timimi makes it clear that look as they do, there are still no biological markers:
    https://youtu.be/EzL9sAJmz54

    Life can be hard, very hard, and all the more so when one is being targeted and marginalized. What the Autism-Aspergers label seems to do mostly is just to exonerate abusers.

    Interesting book:
    https://www.amazon.com/Far-Tree-Parents-Children-Identity/dp/0743236726/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=Q0KWK69WQ35VZ0MFGZ1H

    One chapter deals with autism and the author admits that that is the singularly most controversial topic in the book, and really in the entire area of disability studies.

    I am sure you know that it was just a few years ago that Arizona removed 5 children, plus a 6th older child, and pediatricians had to testify against the own Phoenix Children’s Hospital shrinks who have given the 5 autism assessments. The court finally agreed that the whole thing was just Munchausen’s Syndrome By Proxy.

    And the reason that the head of pediatrics got involved and pushed this, was she said that they had already fooled hundreds of doctors, and that now that they were exposed they were likely to leave the state and just start over somewhere else.

    You talk about a “neurodivergent species”. Well know one knows that anything like this could happen. It sounds like you are just following the eugenics movement, but arguing the opposite side. You are arguing for what some call a Post Human Existence. Again, no one knows that such could ever be real, and no one knows that what is being called Autism or Asperger’s would have anything to do with such.

    What is true, in my opinion, is that people are starting to rebel against Muggle Socialization, the schools which do little more than to use bullying to achieve conformity. Usually arguments in favor of autism depend upon this type of socialization, and upon the self-reliance ethic as backdrops.

    As far as what drives any “lines of flight”, Deleuze and Guattari say that it is Capitalism which creates schizos. But as to what creates clinical schizophrenia, that is the mental health system itself.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0143105825/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0

    Joey, I’m glad that you, someone committed to an autism identity, posted. I am concerned about this liver condition. But I also want people, like Bonnie, to see that Autism is not really different from the concept of Mental Illness. You can’t really argue against either one of them, unless you are prepared to argue against both of them.

    Hey, I am opposed to Muggle Bullying Schools, and I support people to learn all that they can, books, computers, electronics, chemistry, mathematics, everything. But as I see it, this is in no way helped by the concept of Autism. And neurodiversity, pushed to its logical results, really does not mean anything. It is something invented by people who are being subjected to oppression, and it helps the oppressors.

  • above Rachel777 wrote, “…As medical professionals, we cannot afford to view our patients’ afflictions in emotional or humanizing terms.”

    But the problem here with the entire mental health system is that underlying it all is a Moral Improvement Model. And that is based on the idea that there is a patient or client who has “afflictions” rather than needing to learn how to politically organize to fight back against injustice.

    The Psychotherapist is there to listen to you, and then turn what you say around and make it your affliction, rather than a legitimate political and legal issue.

    This turning it back at you is what Freud called transference. Because it is when the client can first start to see that the therapist is not their comrade.

    Your psychotherapist is not going to storm any Bastilles, Raid Harper’s Ferry, or start any slave revolts with you.

    As Jeffrey Masson explains, everything which is talked about in the therapist’s office should instead be getting talked about in some other venue.

    https://www.amazon.com/Against-Therapy-Emotional-Tyranny-Psychological-ebook/dp/B008KPZRDW/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=Jeffrey+Masson&qid=1564098439&s=gateway&sr=8-4

    Anyone here, tell me of something which would get talked about in the office of a psychotherapist that would not better be talked about in some other venue?

  • Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. And this is how it still works today.

    Autism, do labels and diagnoses help or hinder? – Professor Sami Timimi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzL9sAJmz54

    No one knows that there is any such “neurological difference”, radical or otherwise.

    Remember that it was always thought that Autism is related to Schizophrenia. Sami Timimi writes that the key to taking down adult psychiatry is schizophrenia. They key to taking down child psychiatry is autism.

    Autism does not exist out of the primate laboratory cage known as universal schooling and the Middle-Class Family. And this is not that far removed from Harry Harlow and his monkey experiments.

  • Some people believe that AOT is necessary. Most of the would be opponents of AOC try to appease its supporters, and they do this by denigrating those who are already targeted by the mental health system. They promote psychotherapy, recovery, life coaching, community and integrative approaches.

    The never go with a hard line FU.

  • But usually that “passably acceptable argument”, as Bertram Karon states it, is part of the justification used for writing the prescription, and getting the client to do the voluntary ingestions.

    I know a man who has been convinced that he has ~Bipolar 2~ and he has been given ~medications~. First it was just one at a very low does, but the dosages and the number these lethal drugs has increased. He even has an extra one which he can ingest when he feels any anxiety.

    He has even talked about suing the county for his original low dosage. It is less than what the Physician’s Desk Reference specifies.

    To me his complaint seems absurd. If one has to ingest such neurotoxins, then of course you just do the bare minimum. Going lower than PDR does not do any harm. It is not harmful, unless one really believes that the drugs are a necessity to go on living.

    But my friend clearly wants these narcotics to mask his experiences. I tell him to dump them. He always says in response, “But I want to enjoy my life”.

    What he seems to mean is that he wants to be drugged into zombie hood, and this is what he means by enjoying his life.

    He wants these drugs to completely mask his negative experiences.

    He then goes on to invoke a negative stereotype of a homeless man, and he says that the only thing keeping him from becoming like that, are these drugs.

    This is sad. He thinks the drugs keep him “socially functional”. And it is this which I believe Bertram Karon was calling out when he spoke of “passably acceptable to most people most of the time”.

    Its the kind of an idea which you would find in someone who has totally submitted to the ideas of the ~mental health~ system, and those being essentially the same as those advanced by the Middle-Class Family.

    And so to make it clear, here what I am referring to is it being done with people who are already facing huge and ongoing social harassment, over this imaginary issue of a ~neurological difference~. To be more clear, it is being directed at those who have been convinced that they have ~Autism – Aspergers~, but instead of admitting that this imaginary ailment has no objective basis, as Sami Timimi says, “no biological markers”, and “Autism does not exist.”

    And these survivors are being told, in effect, that they can be made passably acceptable to most people most of the time, by MDMA.

    Now the originator of this, Nick Walker at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, says that it is to deal with “social anxiety”.

    Walker and his MIA colleague believe that this ~neurodiverstiy~, and in a radicalized form, something which there is zero evidence for, somehow benefit by accepting the label, and by then proclaiming the doctrine of “Cognitive Liberty”.

    I consider this to be a high level of abuse, and something which has to be responded to.

  • “alternative discourses”

    There is no alternative discourse, not on this forum in in these reports.

    Distress is still looked at as cause for a self-improvement project, rather than as an indication of injustice which should be redressed.

    “Meditation is on the rise as a way of coping with a variety of distressing psychological symptoms, such as anxiety and depression.”

  • We have to start putting at least some psychiatrists and some psychotherapists out of business.

    This will not be that hard. I have forced the closure of other types of businesses.

    Closing a business is a visible thing, it draws attention, it makes heroes, and it makes for enemies.

    But once we have this visibility, it will be easier to get more lawsuits going, easier to do sidewalk protests, and then easier to get critical laws changed.

    Forced treatment is of course unthinkable, but many Americans seem to believe that it is sometimes necessary. But the exploitation which is psychotherapy, and the chemical assault which is voluntary drugging, are very common. Many many people have been effected by these. Really, all should be entitled to sue and obtain compensation.

    So mostly it is just a matter of drawing attention by engaging in consequential actions against psychiatrists and psychotherapists.

  • AA is not only unscientific, it is a cult. It is religiosity. What is also unscientific is the idea that therapy or drugs can cure anyone of ~mental illness~, or that these things are desirable for any reason whatsoever.

    If the issue here is people who are believed to be violent, well that is part of life. If someone has been marginalized, the we should be teaching them how to defend themselves, and teaching them when it is appropriate to use violence, and what the risks are, and teaching them how to use violence effectively.

    Like what Foucault is telling us, the government use to use execution to keep people in line. But now it no longer needs to do this. It can keep people in line simply be refusing to grant them permission to die. And this is what the mental health system does, give people no chance of restoring their honor, so they really have no reason to live. They are just waiting for permission to die.

    There is no scientific way to get people to stop drinking or using, they have to want to do it. If they want to do it, then they can. But mostly, they have to see some way that they can stand up and restore their honor.

    But the mental health system and the recovery movement will deny them this. And it is no different with street drugs versus prescription drugs.

  • “MAD IN ITALY now joins the “MAD Family” to contribute to the diffusion of a critical and constructive approach to mental health, which highlights the often-neglected principles of recovery and psychosocial context contributing to good emotional wellbeing and good quality of life. ”

    I hope we can marshal all necessary resources and put an end to this “constructive approach to mental health” and the propagation of this idea of “recovery”.

  • And now I find that these same people are trying to promote giving MDMA to those labeled as having ~autism~ in order to deal with “Social Anxiety”.

    Like Bertram P. Karon says, the usual argument for psychiatric drugging is, “Here, this will make you passably acceptable to most people most of the time.”

    Well the same people promoting acceptance of this ~neurodiversity~ label, are also promoting the use of MDMA. I guess it is because once someone has accepted the idea of ~neurological difference~ then they will be fearful that they might be offending people.

  • And then the usual argument behind Psychiatric Drugging, as stated by Bertram P. Karon, is, “Here, this will make you passably acceptable to most people most of the time.”

    And so how is this any different, teaching people that they should depend upon a drug to go on with their ordinary life, to avoid offending people, and to get through they day.

    https://www.ciis.edu/ciis-news-and-events/campus-calendar/danforth-walker-fa16

  • Why should any child have to submit to being labeled, all it does is open the door to:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYQ0R6pSFGE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n9vlBtbji8

    If a child has been targeted in these ways, then we should intercede and teach them to stand up for themselves. And we should be supplying them with a lawyer, and then we should be sending them to law school themselves.


    It is not sufficient for the instructor to merely tell students that in this class it’s okay for them to give expression to their neurodivergence. Sociocultural pressures to perform neuronormativity are lifelong, pervasive, and insidious. By the time people are old enough to end up in a college classroom, they have almost always internalized these pressures to the point where they habitually police themselves and engage in the performance of neuronormativity even in situations in which it isn’t explicitly required of them by any external authority. That’s how enculturation works, and how internalized oppression works on an embodied level. Internalized normativity is a powerful force, especially when engrained into habits of embodied performance.

    http://neurocosmopolitanism.com/

    As far as I can see, most people will sometimes engage in those behaviors which are being used to justify this idea of ~autism~ and ~neurological difference~. I am talking about what they are calling ~stims~ and maybe avoiding eye contact, and just not feeling comfortable in a situation, and maybe being fidgety.

    And well, when one is a target, and when their life experience has been made very different from other people, they have every reason not to feel comfortable.

    Usually when people sense that they are under attack, they will become justifiably more defensive.

    When they feel more comfortable, they will eventually relax and open up, though you cannot try to force this.

    From the writings of those who supposedly have ~autism~ I have observed that things generally start to improve for them once they no longer live with their parents. Though of course as spokes persons for ~autism~ they would never dare say such.

    And so Nick Walker wants ~autistics~ to be leading these ~radical neurodiversity~ meetings.

    Well, people might set up meetings where it is more expected and understood that many people do come across as unusual and as not really comfortable in common social environments.

    If people wanted to organize some sorts of actions, like maybe law suits, or solving a bullying problem, or putting an end to the ~neurodiversity~ treatments, then it would be good if the meetings can be relaxed enough that people are not expected to be like everyone else.

    Most Muggle Functions are designed to be repressive.

    Okay, but none of this is improved by getting people to accept a “radical neurodiversity” label. Quite the contrary, using that kind of a label would turn the meeting from something positive into something very negative. And such a label of course exonerates all historic perpetrators. This is true, even though Walker is not tying ~neurological difference~ to genetics.

    We should be teaching those who are being targeted to stand up for themselves, and not to have to submit to any labeling in order to do this.

  • I think that what is most important is that we teach survivors to defend themselves, and we should also send some to law school.

    In much of the country, religion makes it just about impossible to prevent familial child abuse, and that is justified by the Self-Reliance Ethic, and by the idea that children need to be broken in order to be Saved.

    It stinks. But we could go further in preventing and prosecuting forms of familial child abuse. And we could do more in giving courts realistic options by creating communes which children can become members of, before they have to be removed from a family.

  • I agree 100% with Someone Else, and great links too.

    And I want to emphasize that it is not just Psychiatry and the Biomedical Model. Psychotherpy has always worked like religion. It runs on a Moral Improvement Model.

    Freud got his approval and social standing by selling out his patients, female ~hysterics~, and saying that they were lying or fantasizing about early childhood sexual molestation.

    Now today, there would be consequences if a therapist tried to do that, call the client a liar. But they still take the position that though they believe what you are saying, that it still does not rise to the level of anything which you need to do anything about. So they are dismissing it, taking on the role of a judge, and deeming that you have no case.

    Psychotherpy and the Recovery Movement have painted the picture that childhood trauma is harmful because it creates memories, and then that the harm is in these memories. And these memories exist like a film of events. It might be conscious, or following Freud, it might be unconscious.

    But this is a horrible and no longer applied model of cognition. It seems to go back to John Locke.

    “He offered an empiricist theory according to which we acquire ideas through our experience of the world. The mind is then able to examine, compare, and combine these ideas in numerous different ways. Knowledge consists of a special kind of relationship between different ideas.”

    https://www.iep.utm.edu/locke/

    So your therapist will try to surface these memories. They used to try to eradicate them. But this is less and less. But it is still completely faulty. You have to look at the entire course of your life and at your present experience, to see how abuse and trauma has effected. Most of the time what it does, consisting of betrayal, is it limits your social options. So it makes it harder to form intimate relationships, it makes it harder to get an education, and it makes it harder to build a career.

    If people understood how much the course of their life had been shaped by lies, denial, hypocrisy, and betrayal, the they would be leading the charge to hold perpetrators accountable.

    But we don’t see this, instead we see survivors echoing the language of psychotherapy and recovery, “healing” “leaving it behind” “forgiveness”, and acting like nothing happened. And the reason for this is that your psychiatrist needs to protect their own denial systems. And the whole basis of their profession is that just by manipulating the victim, the wrong is corrected.

    They like to say in Recovery programs, “the only person you have control over is yourself”. And this is totally untrue. I helped 3 girls get their father a long sentence in our state prison. A local attorney got a woman a $500k judgment against a childhood sexual abuser.

    Here, Hubert Dreyfus, an expert on Heidegger and Existentialism shows that both Freud and Edmund Husserl studied under the same Franz Brentano. And they each came to represent different paths. Then following from Husserl to Maurice Mearleau-Ponty he shows us a different way of relating to ~Psycho Pathology~.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20061214214634/http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~hdreyfus/html/paper_alternative.html

    Of course I am not endorsing any idea of ~Psycho Pathology~, but I am simply saying that to appreciate how much one’s life has been effected by trauma, one has to completely deconstruct ones self. Just coming up with a film of events does not in anyway come close.

    And then the most severe abuses will usually be coming from primary care takers, and they amount to serious betrayal. Most middle-class child abuse ( physical, emotional, medical, and sexual ) are being rationalized as necessitated by the Self-Reliance Ethic. Being able to do this and to create for themselves an unstigmatized adult identity will usually be why the parent decided to have children in the first place. And for the most part our society exonerates them, and this will be continuing as you walk into your psychotherapist’s office.

    We should not be talking with psychotherapists, or clergy, or psychiatrists.

    A better model of cognition:

    https://www.amazon.com/Tree-Knowledge-Biological-Roots-Understanding/dp/0877736421/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=XBHDRNJT08771NXD57ZS

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262720213/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0

    And about this idealized autonomous subject which conservative political theory tends to create:
    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Social-Family-Radical-Thinkers/dp/1781687595/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=anti-social+family&qid=1563834181&s=books&sr=1-1

    And then about how Jefferson was breaking with one of his intellectual mentors, John Locke, in his preamble:
    https://www.amazon.com/God-Other-Famous-Liberals-Reclaiming/dp/067176120X/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=f.+forrester+church&qid=1563834236&s=books&sr=1-4

    And before I forget, how to people feel about a movement to label children with ~neurological difference~, and then to be telling them to build their lives around the doctrine of Cognitive Liberty and the concept of ~neurodiversity~?

  • “Destruction of higher reasoning functions does not lead to a reformed moral character.”

    But that is what the drugs are for, destruction of the higher reasoning functions, and also ECT and lobotomy.

    And while the middle class family only turns to drugging when earlier efforts have failed, the central organizing purpose is to psychically scar and maim children in order to get them to accept the bogus ethic known as Self-Reliance.

    And when such efforts at scaring and maiming fail, they have the state licensed thought enforcer, known as the psychotherapist, with their newer editions of the pedagogy manual, and with their new moral improvement version of the diagnosis manual.

    Very few people can escape this, because most all whom they encounter will be collaborators.

    But once we survivors stop talking and become Women and Men of Action, then everything will change.

  • Marcello all you are doing is saying that survivors are responsible for their own distress. This really is not true.

    “Everybody needs Recovery” is just that mantra of the Evangelical Rick Warren, it is the new version of Original Sin.

    And going back to Freud, Psychoanalysis has worked like this too.

  • Rachel777, But the idea that things were “partly her fault because she can change them” is just another form of manipulation. “Everybody needs Recovery” is just Rick Warren’s new version of Original Sin.

    I am involved in local efforts to counteract the actions of the Evangelicals and their outreach ministries.

    I am always telling people, that if someone has been treated with dignity and respect, and given the chance to develop and apply their abilities, then it is very unlikely that they would ever have developed a serious problem with alcohol or drugs.

    And with my Pentecostal Molester I did my best to argue to the court that unless he gets an adequate sentence, then there is no reason to expect more survivors to compromise themselves by coming forward.

    And then I spoke of that church’s outreach ministry, telling the poor and the homeless that Jesus has so much compassion for them that he wants to give them a second chance. All he wants in return is that they admit that it is their fault for screwing up the first chance.

    And then I pointed out that if these girls had not come forward in defiance of their church and their parents, and told the truth, who knows what could have happened. Failed marriages, failed attempts to get an education and build a career, and some years down the road, they could have been the next clients for that church’s outreach ministry.

  • “A good course on autism (or, for that matter, a good piece of writing on autism, or good education or journalism on autism in any medium) should not attempt to strike any sort of “balance” between the neurodiversity paradigm and the pathology paradigm. ”

    http://neurocosmopolitanism.com/

    The problem here is that the neurodiversity paradigm, even Walker’s version, is just another kind of pathology paradigm. And so this is why his approach must be rejected, along with the rest of the neurodiversity paradigm.

    He writes also:

    “While the term neurodiversity originally developed within the Autistic community, the neurodiversity paradigm is not about autism exclusively, but about the full spectrum of human neurocognitive variation. This particular essay, however, was addressed primarily to Autistic readers, and, in its discussion of the implications of shifting paradigms around neurodiversity, it is very much focused on autism, because that was the focus of the anthology for which it was originally written.”

    http://neurocosmopolitanism.com/throw-away-the-masters-tools-liberating-ourselves-from-the-pathology-paradigm/

    Well the neurodiversity paradigm, Walker’s version and earlier versions, are just wrong. They amount to capitulating to bullies and abusers, and in an area where there is zero scientific evidence. It is all just a way to placate abusers, and to tell victims that the abusers have some validity behind their actions.

    It exonerates parents, doctors, teachers, bully kids, and workplace bullies.

    Here we go Bonnie, how about we make up these as lapel tags to put on the patients.

    https://simpleijustdo.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/img_2297.jpg

  • Milan, Continued life means standing up for your honor.

    Psychotherapy and Psychiatry and based on life without honor, and based on making people believe that it is they who are the cause of their own problems.

  • Anytime therapists are saying that you need them, that we need their new diagnostic manual, then they are saying that there is something wrong with you, and so the more you let them do that, the more likely you will die alone, crippled, and miserable.

    Thanks again to ThereAreFourLights for suggesting that we send survivors to law school. That is the most promising thing I have ever seen posted on this forum.

  • Recovery is simply the new name for Original Sin. It is based on the premise that a survivor is living in a state of moral error. And Psychotherapy works pretty much the same way.

  • Here in the US, survivors are starting to take legal action against Psychotherapists, suing them for Transference Abuse.

    I whole heartedly approve of this, and I say that the money being used to send survivors to Psychotherapists and Recovery Programs should instead be used to send survivors to Law School.

  • Psychotherapy and Recovery are both ways of converting your experience of injustice into a self-improvement project.

    The idea is to regulate how people can think and make sure that they accept having nothing more than a vegetative honorless existence.

  • Part One *****************

    Bonnie, A big reason that slavery ended in the United States was that free blacks were highly offended by Harriet Beecher Stowe and her protagonist. Within one year they were speaking before the Massachusetts State Legislature, demanding to be able to serve in the militia. And their justification was that they did not want to have to be like Beecher Stowe’s protagonist. Then when the legislature still denied them, they bought their own uniforms and formed their own militia. Eventually 180,000 black men would train with rifles and bayonets and would serve in federal uniform. When Frederick Douglas praised them, he contrasted them with Beecher Stowe’s protagonist. Without this service, they probably would have been returned to a state of slavery.

    Part Two *****************

    Beecher Stowe had not intended her protagonist to be offensive. She painted him as a paragon of Christian virtue, tortured to death, but still not betraying the escapees. But offensive he still was. She had wanted Whites to accept him as non-threatening, as already subjugated.

    Part Three *****************

    In Nazi Occupied France, resistance emerged, Catholics, Nationalists, and Marxists from the Spanish Civil War. They killed both Germans and French Collaborators. When they killed Germans, other Germans took those places. When they killed French, no other French took those places. It is only because of such resistance that France was purged of such collaborators and treated as one of the four allied powers of Europe.

    Part Four *****************

    And then in the Warsaw Ghetto, Jews saw that it was better to die with honor than without, and so they rose up in the face of near certain death. This act and others like it today give Jews something to remember and to look up to.

    Part Five *****************

    Bonnie, you do not seem to understand the nature of honor. If people let bullies pin a completely bogus label to their lapel, or let psychotherapists talk them out so that they can easily manipulate them, then they are surrendering their honor.

    Part Six *****************

    Usually the primary bullies are the parents, doctors, and school teachers. Other children are secondary.

    Part Seven *****************

    And though it is right that LQBTQ members condemn abuses, just calling for diversity is not the same as taking any and all steps necessary to secure social and civil standing, and honor. I know of LQBTQ members who have devoted themselves to protecting children from religions abuse, and from familial abuses. Calling for diversity is not at all the same as directly standing up for ones own personhood and that of comrades.

    Part Eight *****************

    Diversity is an idea like tolerance, that rather than enforcing absolute standards, that one should look the other way and understand that not everyone can measure up to those standards. So the standards still remain in place, its just that they are not always enforced. So no, I do not go along at all with what you are saying.

    Part Nine *****************

    The ~mental health~, ~recovery~, and ~neurodiversity~ movements exist to label and marginalize, because that exonerates any and all abusers, and it leaves us with a society where everyone is always worried about their own compliance with normative standards.

  • No, fully informed consent does not make it okay to give out psychiatric neurotoxins. Those are restricted substances, to be given out only when there is a bona fide medical need. They are not recreational mode alterants, not under present law. This is not vanity medicine.

    As the ailments which these lethal neurotoxins are supposed to treat do not exist, then it is never okay to give them out.

  • Money spent sending survivors to Psychotherapists so that they can talk themselves out and thus be reduced to a highly vulnerable state so that they can be pressured into accepting an honorless vegetative existence.

    This money would be far better spend sending survivors to law school.

  • PTMF
    https://www.sochealth.co.uk/2018/03/15/the-power-threat-meaning-framework/

    This is still based on Thought Policing, the reason why the state licenses psychotherapists.

    It is still based on getting people to confess their feelings to non-comrades, until they have no further defensible boundaries.

    Fortunately attorneys now are suing for “Transference Abuse”

    We don’t need this new manual or its concepts, any more than we needed DSM. I urge everyone to fight the use of both models bay any means necessary

  • Both Psychiatry and Psychotherapy try to convince people that it is better to go on existing, not really living, just existing, without public honor.

    As this is torture, it often does result in suicide.

  • If you go to a “diversity paradigm” in the face of bullying and persecution, then your “diversity paradigm” is just another name for the “pathology paradigm”

    Remember, in the US, the word “colored” was used as a euphemism for saying “negro”, or for saying something worse. And it was spoken in a hushed voice, as it was seen as very touchy subject.

    Things changed when people refused to go along with that, “colored”, and instead proclaimed that they are “BLACK”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrB4uQyU0DU

  • No it is pleading, they are going along with something for which there is no evidence.

    Their primary motivation for doing this is that some find them unacceptable and have resorted to labeling them. So instead of telling the bullies, the labelers, and the FYOGers where they should stick it, they ask for acceptance of this “neurodiversity”.

    How can you say that that is not pleading?

    Should racial minority groups promote “racial diversity”?

    Should religions minority groups promote “religious diversity”?

    Sexual minority groups promote “sexual diversity”?

    And rape survivors?

    No human grouping has ever established itself that way. The only way any group has ever been able to exist is by making would be violators understand that they either approach with respect, or they are going to lose their scalps.

  • Well we do have laws against some drugs, and then also laws which make some drugs by prescription only. You are free to speak out for changes in this, but does not mean that things will go that way.

    Never in all human history has their been any society which has operated by the principles of Libertarianism. That is mostly just a way to propagate the doctrines of Social Darwinism. Its not a realistic or sincere political movement.

    Peter Gøtzsche has said that it would be better if these drugs are off the market. I don’t think he is intending that they be offered as recreational or self-prescribed drugs.

    We have plenty of things which work like that already.

    Now regulation of such things has proved very difficult. But I for one would not think it wise to introduce even more chemical variations.

    As I see it, chemicals might help you adjust to changing circumstances for like a day or two. But beyond that the chemicals are always taking more than they give. The benefit is illusory.

    As long as we have such drugs in circulation, then people are going to be susceptible to the claims that doctors make, that the drugs are good for you. Until people learn to self regulate, drug free, then they will always be at risk. We can’t eradicate the knowledge of how to prepare the chemicals, even going back to ethanol, but we can help people learn how not to need them.

    So we certainly are not going to be able to prohibit everything, but I don’t see any reason that we should be converting prescription drugs into self-prescribed drugs, at least not in most cases.