I’m not sure if this is Ben’s response to the letter writing campaign or not… If so, I’m disappointed. In any event, I think it would be good to find out if this is indeed his response to the scandal.
Steve McCrea — your comments helped me to see how my statement could be misinterpreted. So, I replaced “mental healthcare” with your suggestions to see whether it resonated with me — and it works very well — thank you very much! So here you have it, as I’ve re-framed my personal view on the matter:
No one denies that we all struggle and face difficult challenges from time to time.
Depression can seep into our lives; we may feel uneasy or stressed; and at times our mental state can become confused or temporarily unstable.
Provision of a compassionate environment where individuals can receive emotional support in processing their experiences, is therefore both valid and necessary.
However, the emphasis must be on EFFECTIVE methods that improve and strengthen us ā those that help restore self-confidence, competence, stability and spiritual well-being.
Judi, I completely agree with you! But I also have to admit that many of us don’t recognize the truth of what you’re saying until after we wake up to the fact that we all need to take more responsibility to learn what’s true and what isn’t.
I’m speaking from personal experience. Years ago, I was all too willing to place my trust in our family doctor who told me my son’s depression was caused by a chemical imbalance, and that amazing new advances had been developed to treat those chemical imbalances. What did I know? Nothing….
I just figured he knew a whole lot more than I did. He was the professional.
It took the death of my son to shake me out of my own stupidity.
This is exactly why I think Mickey’s proposal is worth supporting. The plan is to drain psychiatry of its power and authority – with the first step being to expose the lies & propaganda its gotten away with for far too long – which will begin that process of seriously weakening it and causing it to become socially irrelevant in its present form. We must convince the public, media, courts, etc. that psychiatry does not protect society — but in fact, its tools and treatments often create more problems for individuals and for society.
The public will then be required to choose…. which story is right? Is psychiatry protective, or is it harmful? But, they cannot choose if the only story they hear is what they’ve always heard.
Julie, I wanted to respond to your last message yesterday, but ran out of time… but anyway, you wrote: “Sorry, Cassie, there is no way I am going to write, publicly or off the record, that āmental health care is valid and necessary.ā
I can understand your anger and distrust. No one should ever be subjected to forced psychiatric “treatment” of any kind. It’s a blatant assault on human rights and human dignity.
I value a person’s right to choose what is best for themselves.
Okay, Julie – I can agree with you on that — (it’s the “system” that’s corrupt), and not everyone who works in the field (though there are plenty of corrupt practitioners, too). I get daily reports from the OIG’s office on all the ways people in the mental health field are trying to fleece the system… I’ve always hated the way it’s structured, but I think the insurance conglomerates are every bit as much at fault.
And, I’m totally in agreement with you on the second point too. The problem is that some people don’t have strong family ties, or even if they do, they still don’t feel comfortable talking to someone in their family because of whatever family dynamics are at play… and they may have close friends, but don’t want to burden them, and sometimes their friends don’t know how to best help them anyway…
I’ve got a nephew who has really been struggling. He’s a very private person, and even though everyone in our family has been concerned about him, and we’ve reached out to him, he just wouldn’t open up to us… He sought counseling, and I forwarded the name of a particular therapist. I liked what I read about her reason for not using insurance to pay for her service:
* https://www.myslctherapist.com/private-pay-advantages.html*
I don’t know if my nephew ended up seeing her or someone else — but from all outward appearances, he is showing signs of improvement. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that he’ll continue to feel more hopeful about himself and his future, and from what I’m personally observing, whatever counseling he’s been getting is what is helping him. I’m going to repeat here what I’ve personally come to believe:
” No one denies that we all struggle and face difficult challenges from time to time.
Depression can seep into our lives; we may feel uneasy or stressed; and at times our mental state can become confused or temporarily unstable.
Mental healthcare is therefore both valid and necessary.
However, the emphasis must be on EFFECTIVE methods that improve and strengthen us ā those that help restore self-confidence, competence, stability and spiritual well-being.
Julie, I agree with most of what you’ve said, but I don’t believe that everyone working in the mental health field are ogres. Sometimes people just need some help in trying to sort out the problems of life… I’ve known people who have been harmed, some people who weren’t harmed or helped, and some who have greatly benefitted from a caring and wise mental health professional. It’s not all black and white..
I’ve also responded to De Facto. He’s right that the majority of distressed people are not more likely to harm someone — but it’s not fiction that some distressed people will experience distorted thoughts as a direct negative effect of psychiatric drugs and will act on them.
De Facto – the proposal does not suggest that the “majority” of people who use psych drugs become violent or act out on violent or psychotic thoughts, but some people do. The research is there. Maybe you haven’t read it? When you consider how many people are now prescribed psych drugs, if only 7-10% experienced these intrusive thoughts and acted out on them, you can begin to imagine the possible outcome… In some ethnic groups, the percentage of people who might experience the “rare” side effects of psych drugs is even greater.
The fact is that some people do develop thoughts of harming themselves or others on certain drugs, and some people have acted out on those thoughts. When you start looking into the lives of many of the school shooters, and a good percentage of others involved in mass shootings, you see the same patterns. I associate with a group of people who all wrote letters to Ben Carey because they either lost someone to suicide who were getting “mental health treatment” in the form of psychiatric drugs, or they actually harmed or killed someone else while using the drugs. A few of them were lucky enough to have good defense teams who presented the argument that “if not for the drug(s), the tragedy would not have happened”. Others have family members sitting in prison who were eventually able to come off the drugs, and they have no evidence of “mental illness” now. Try telling those people that psychiatric drugs don’t have those effects! And, it’s not just younger people who experience the worst of the side effects… the problem is that certain people — no matter their age, are simply not able to metabolize certain drugs, and there is no shortage of research on that, either. I’ve been looking at this issue and collecting the research on it for over a decade. The problem with certain people not being able to metabolize these drugs, and thus being more susceptible to the negative effects of psych drugs has been known about since the turn of the century. An excellent book on the subject is called “Cross Cultural Psychiatry”, edited by John M. Herrera, William B. Lawson & John J. Sramek — copyright 1999 and funded by none other than Eli Lilly…. https://www.amazon.com/Cross-Cultural-Psychiatry-John-Herrera/dp/0471985872
And if you’ve ever taken time to look at ssristories.org, you’ll find psychiatric drugs to be the common denominator in all those tragic stories. If you would like me to send some of that research to you let me know.
Whether or not Carey will write more about this is anyone’s guess, but those involved with public health certainly ought to have a serious look at this, because it is a matter of public health concern.
Julie, for what it’s worth, I believe you. Just as there are good teachers out there and bad ones; good mechanics and bad ones; good doctors and bad ones – there are also good therapists and those who should have chosen a different career. And, that goes for different types of therapy. Dr Nedley, who is a doctor of internal medicine, stated that some therapeutic models are far more harmful than helpful, but cited CBT as a model he felt could be especially helpful.
I hope you write a book. I’d buy a copy and read it!
Oh, and just wanted to clarify my understanding of the proposal for action that Mickey posted here — it’s not just about SSRI drugs. I’ve read about military vets flipping out on fluoroquinolones, and benzos can make you feel like you’re losing your mind…. but I understand if you don’t feel this is the best outlet for your experiences. You’ll find the right avenue to express what’s in your heart.
Fred Abbe — who is it that once said, “the pen is mighter than the sword”? This proposal for action is a way for dissident professionals to protest. It would be great if those defined as “them” and “us” could gather together as one body and protest on the steps of legislative & parliamentary buildings across the nation and the world, but the logistics of that happening says it won’t. And maybe the NYT won’t do anything with these written protests, either…. but then again, maybe it might.
yeah_I_survived — Back in 2007 I was introduced to an introductory segment (on DVD), of a program that had been developed by an internal medical doctor out in Oklahoma that I found to be intriguing. I was too busy with other things at that time in my life to look into it further, but the impression of just that 1/2 hour video stayed with me for a long time until I finally found the time to look into it further. The program is called the “Nedley Depression and Anxiety Recovery Program”. I traveled out to Oklahoma and attended a training conducted by Neil Nedley, MD and then began to teach this program to my community. The program is offered in 3 formats: 1) a 10-day “residential treatment” program 2) as an educational program that takes place over eight weeks (one day or evening each week over a 2 hour period for eight weeks), and 3) as an online, self-help course.
While all three program formats are beneficial for anyone struggling, the 10 day program is by far the most beneficial (but also the most expensive). By far the largest criticism I’ve heard from anyone is that the program is based on Christian principles, so it won’t help anyone who isn’t Christian. Well, I’ve taught the ‘educational’ version of the program in a community setting to people of all faiths and those of no faith at all – and, the results have been astounding! You might want to look into it.
kumininexile — glad you wrote! Please let us know if you hear anything back!
Joshua, this information isn’t accessible in the comments section, but is included at the bottom of Mickey’s “Proposal and Call to Action”. You need to contact one of these guys directly to get the contact information for Ben Carey so you can send your letter to him. Leave a message on their phone if they don’t answer, and they’ll get back to you!
Steve McCrea (503) 516-8428 (Pacific Daylight Time)
I like your line of thinking, CatNight. I recently picked up a book – “Negotiating with Giants, Get What You Want Against the Odds”. Haven’t had time to read it yet; hope there’s something worthwhile in the pages. I’ll let you know if there is.
Oldhead – I’m aware of many folks who went back to school and emerged as a “professional” because they had some bad experiences and wanted to get in there on the “other side” to help shift the power balance. I’m interested in your defined parameters of who is “we” and who is “them”….
In the end, we’re all really part of this amazing human family. Some of us just have a few more warts than others.
CatNight – I’m over here in your cheering section! Please write! Save some lives š
Julie – You’ve said an awful lot in your post above, and I perceive that you’ve left an awful lot out…. and, you don’t think your experience should be heard? !!
People need to know these things from real people who have “been there”. Otherwise, all they hear is what their doctor tells them. Often they don’t learn that the feelings they’re experiencing are direct effects from the drugs they’re taking, or how awful withdrawal from a drug can be until it’s too late, and they’re going through that hell themselves…
You may be thinking that all of this has been said and discussed before, and people will believe what they want to believe. While that is true to a point, you and I travel in circles that a huge part of the world is unaware of… I only found these circles of support when it was far too late for my intelligent, imaginative, beautiful, beautiful boy….
Your words may save someone’s life, Julie….
It just occurred to me that I really should give credit and extend my gratitude to the good people in my life who helped me in so many ways in my struggle to understand my son’s death. Fred Baughman, MD, put me in touch with Dr. Dragovic. Barry Turner in the United Kingdom, put me in touch with Detective Andrew Whittle. Ann Blake-Tracy introduced me to Sheriff Richard Mack. These three people, and so many others (too many to mention here), have helped me in so many ways — and I am constantly reminded that we are not alone in this battle to expose the corruption and lies and deceit that result in the suffering and death of so many….
I wrote to Ben Carey too, and thought I’d share a copy of what I wrote to him, in the hope that it will encourage others to join this campaign, which I see as an effort worth the hour or so of your time to write a letter. All this effort might not net any result, but how do you know unless you give it a shot?
***
Dear Ben,
It seems like a lifetime ago since I first communicated with you. It was January 2004, when Vera Sharav suggested you contact me. [1] You were working on a story for the LA Times about SSRIs and suicide to coincide with the upcoming FDA hearings on this class of drugs. [2]
Back then when you interviewed me, I was using my former name ā Dawn Rider. A few months after the FDA hearing, I remarried and assumed an entirely new name.
You may recall that my twelve year old son, Kevin Rider, was diagnosed with depression by our family doctor and was prescribed Prozac. He died at the age of fourteen, the result of a bullet to his head. His death certificate says he died from a āself-inflicted gunshot woundā.
Suicide is a hard thing to deal with. It leaves in its wake so much heartache and so many unanswered questionsā¦ Why didnāt he talk to me? What did I miss? Why didnāt I know?
I eventually came to learn that some drugs can induce significant adverse events, including suicidal and homicidal ideation – and that some people are not good candidates for certain drugs. [3]
When I learned about the shady past of Prozacās development and eventual presentation to the public as a miracle pill, my grief and guilt transitioned to rage, and I filed a lawsuit against the drugās manufacturer. [4] [5]
In the course of that lawsuit, a young attorney asked for copies of my sonās autopsy report, and it was the attorney – not the coroner, who suggested my son did not kill himself; that in fact, his death presented more as a homicide. The attorney advised me to contact the Utah Attorney Generalās office. Itās a long story, and though a team of investigators acknowledged the blatant discrepancies between the original police report and the medical examinerās report ā the reopened investigation into how my son actually died was never completed.
On my own, I was able to secure statements from three experts in the field of police investigative reporting, homicide and forensics. Below are excerpts from the statements written by these three experts:
1. Andrew E.D. Whittle
Detective Senior Inspector of Police having served for 11 years in the Royal Hong Kong Police and three years in the Nottinghamshire Constabulary in the UK.
āThis incident should have been treated a suspicious death leaning towards a homicideā.
2. L.J. Dragovic, MD
Chief Medical Examiner – Oakland County, Michigan
āThese findings militate against self-infliction, and, ipso facto, undermine the accuracy of the manner of death listed as suicideā.
3. Richard I. Mack
Former Sheriff – Graham County, Arizona
āIn performing a law enforcement review and brief investigation of Kevinās death, it became somewhat difficult to do so, due to the poor investigation originally conducted by the Policeā.
Did my son die due to a suicide pact that went wrong? Did he kill himself? Did his friend who was with him on the day of his death pull the trigger? I honestly donāt knowā¦ Iāve come to believe that his friend shot him, but I still blame his death on Prozac, and I am on a personal mission to help others learn how and why Prozac and similar drugs can be killers.
Odd, isnāt it? That the available forensic evidence would lead one to believe my son was murdered, and yet I still lay blame on Prozac?
I will refer to my sonās friend as āTJā It wasnāt until after my son died, that I learned from TJās mother how TJ had been prescribed a cocktail of psychiatric drugs, beginning at the age of eight. TJ was having difficulty at school. His teacher told his mother that children like TJ often benefitted from Ritalin. But Ritalin did not prove to be a good drug for him, so his doctor tried something else that seemed to work for a while, and when it stopped working, TJ was prescribed something new.
TJ was still taking prescribed psychiatric drugs seven years later when he came to stay with us during that summer so long agoā¦ the summer that my son died.
Peter Breggin refers to psychiatric drugs as āneurotoxinsā. [6]
Street drugs like LSD, cocaine, heroin and PCP are also neurotoxins, and most of us know well enough to stay away from them, but we donāt think critically about the similarities between prescribed neurotoxic drugs and illegal street drugs.
Iāve come to view my sonās death as the outcome of the effect of neurotoxic drugs on the still developing brains of two adolescent boys ā by consent of two mothers who knew nothing about these drugs, whose fault was in trusting that their family doctors were more educated than themselves- which made them worthy of their trust.
I am not anti-psychiatry or anti-drug; but I am against being sold a false bill of goods. I am against the big lie of the chemical imbalance theory of depression and other problems of life that are viewed as āmental disordersā. I am enraged to know that the medical profession, which the public trusts, has been granted power to forcibly restrain and even forcibly inject neurotoxic drugs into someone, or shock them with ECT without that personās consent. I oppose the prescribing of psychiatric neurotoxins by primary care doctors and pediatricians who have only very limited knowledge of their effects or the problems experienced by those who wish to withdraw from them. I am against direct to consumer marketing by pharmaceutical firms, and I believe that when pharmaceutical firms are found guilty of callous and aggressive marketing tactics, hiding facts and other such shenanigans, their executives should be āforcedā right into prison. Time has proven that a financial penalty doesnāt stop those who profit at the cost of human dignity and human lives. [7]
I think another truth also needs to be laid bare to the public ā the answer to that question we all ask ā why do some people claim that drug X literally saved their life, but another person screams the same drug killed their child?
At one time the answer was a mystery to me, but it doesnāt take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
Honey is a forbidden treat for all infants, but most of them can enjoy it when theyāre older. Some kids canāt eat peanuts. Some people can smoke until theyāre 92 and not die of lung cancer. Some people try Prozac and claim it had no effect on them whatsoever; others claim Prozac brought sunshine and happiness into their life, and yet others blame Prozac for inducing terrible nightmares and urges to kill themselves or someone else.
The simple truth is that we all respond differently to things we put into our bodies. There is no lack of scientific research to back this up. What we donāt know, but what we should know is whether a particular drug will have its intended effect on us. The science in the field of pharmacogenomics may not yet be perfect, but it is available, and it could help save the life of someone who is not a good candidate for a specific drug. [8]
I believe mental healthcare is both valid and necessary, but the emphasis must be on effective methods that improve and strengthen us ā those that help restore self-confidence, competence, stability and spiritual well-being.
I’ve been working with a committee to come up with a plan to get legislators to sponsor a bill that will require a thorough examination of the relationship between these neurotoxins and violence, and your letter says just about everything we’ve come up with in over two years of work! BRAVO!!!
So, maybe we can scrap our work and just use your letter to introduce ourselves to our legislators? What do you think? We’d really love to have you come on board with us, and we even extended an invitation to you to join us, but maybe our email invitation ended up in your junk folder….
In any event – I’ll reach out to Bob and see if he’ll talk to you about our invitation.
Love you for your courage and common sense and for continuing to be a voice for so many whose voices will never be heard!
Cassie
Dave, thank you for your humility and courage in writing. You speak for so many other veterans who have found themselves looking back and wondering, how did I get here? Many of them struggle with how to express their experience and their feelings.
No doubt you are disciplined, as I am sure at times it’s difficult to hold back the anger and frustration that comes with realizing that what you have experienced was completely unnecessary.
It takes humility to admit — that an intelligent disciplined person as yourself –was pulled into what I refer to as the “drug trap” ….
I’m not a veteran, and I’ve never taken a psychiatric drug, but I can relate to what you have expressed from a completely different perspective. I’m a mother who lost her fourteen year old child more than sixteen years ago because I didn’t know then what I know now. It’s a difficult lesson to learn, but one that no one ever forgets once they learn it.
I’d like to help you in your effort. Are you familiar with Fred Baughman, MD (retired child and adult neurologist)? I can put you in touch with him and others. Fred has been speaking out and on behalf of our children and our veterans for years, and is connected to quite a few military families.
The problem is — I don’t know how to reach you. I’ll look you up on FB, or perhaps Mr Whitaker or one of his staff will share my contact information with you – he has my permission to do do.
May God bless you and strengthen you.
Cassandra Casey
Ron Unger – I agree with you on both counts. Dave has illustrated what so many others have unfortunately discovered. Secondly, you’re absolutely right that a gathering of an informed group with opposing views is necessary. I’d be happy to introduce you to such a group. I’ve sent you a friend request on FB as I’d like to discuss this with you and get your thoughts on the direction we’re taking. Thanks, Cassandra Casey
If a leader comes forth (or is appointed), and a strategy set in place, all those who agree with this movement will come forth… If the strategy can be broken down into small parts,, your allies will do all they can. As for myself, I can only devote the hours left at the end of the day to this effort – but I can rally the allies. My gift is as a connector… I am not a psychiatric survivor, and many of the people who agree with this movement are not “survivors” per se – but they are allies, and they want this as much as you do. And, it’s not just about psychiatry – it’s about the entire broken mental health system — there are family physicians and pediatricians who are just as guilty as the psychiatrists who dole out their evil “treatments”. Count me in.
Corinna, I just happened upon your post as I was reacquainting myself with Bob’s amazing site. Your words really struck a chord within me, and I want to thank you for inspiring me!
Though I don’t consider myself to be either a psychiatric survivor nor a member of the physical illness survivor community, I am most definitely in the clan of “Disruptive Women” in Mental healthcare! (BTW – I adore the term!)
I’ve emerged from that initial phase of “linking A to B” I find that to be a perfect description of how I started out; maybe it’s a natural step one takes when they know they have to do SOMETHING, but can’t quite grasp the full knowledge of what that something is… Anyway, I eagerly anticipate the use of your resources as I take that transitional leap from treading water to steering my own ship as captain! Ahoy, Mate!
BRAVO !!!! Bob, I can’t tell you how absolutely thrilled to find that you have invited these two brilliant women to contribute a series to your site! This is a topic that needs to be broadcast from the roof tops! Really? A concept so simple as feeding your brain good nutrition might just possibly translate to better brain function? YES, INDEED!!! It ain’t rocket science, but perhaps this is what we’ve needed – for smart women like these (rocket-scientist calibre of women)to guide us back to some plain old common sense! I LOVE IT !!! Thank you Bonnie and Julia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I share your interest in learning more about suicide, and look forward to the conversation. My fourteen year old son’s death certificate indicates he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head (a suicidal death), but I’ve long questioned if this was the actual cause of his death. I have three statements from various experts who believe he may have been shot by someone else, and that the stated cause of death is questionable. It makes me wonder how many deaths have been attributed to suicide, but may not have been.
Thanks for alerting us to this article, kumininexile. Here’s the link for the article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/19/health/mental-health-psychology.html
I’m not sure if this is Ben’s response to the letter writing campaign or not… If so, I’m disappointed. In any event, I think it would be good to find out if this is indeed his response to the scandal.
Steve McCrea — your comments helped me to see how my statement could be misinterpreted. So, I replaced “mental healthcare” with your suggestions to see whether it resonated with me — and it works very well — thank you very much! So here you have it, as I’ve re-framed my personal view on the matter:
No one denies that we all struggle and face difficult challenges from time to time.
Depression can seep into our lives; we may feel uneasy or stressed; and at times our mental state can become confused or temporarily unstable.
Provision of a compassionate environment where individuals can receive emotional support in processing their experiences, is therefore both valid and necessary.
However, the emphasis must be on EFFECTIVE methods that improve and strengthen us ā those that help restore self-confidence, competence, stability and spiritual well-being.
Judi, I completely agree with you! But I also have to admit that many of us don’t recognize the truth of what you’re saying until after we wake up to the fact that we all need to take more responsibility to learn what’s true and what isn’t.
I’m speaking from personal experience. Years ago, I was all too willing to place my trust in our family doctor who told me my son’s depression was caused by a chemical imbalance, and that amazing new advances had been developed to treat those chemical imbalances. What did I know? Nothing….
I just figured he knew a whole lot more than I did. He was the professional.
It took the death of my son to shake me out of my own stupidity.
This is exactly why I think Mickey’s proposal is worth supporting. The plan is to drain psychiatry of its power and authority – with the first step being to expose the lies & propaganda its gotten away with for far too long – which will begin that process of seriously weakening it and causing it to become socially irrelevant in its present form. We must convince the public, media, courts, etc. that psychiatry does not protect society — but in fact, its tools and treatments often create more problems for individuals and for society.
The public will then be required to choose…. which story is right? Is psychiatry protective, or is it harmful? But, they cannot choose if the only story they hear is what they’ve always heard.
Julie, I wanted to respond to your last message yesterday, but ran out of time… but anyway, you wrote: “Sorry, Cassie, there is no way I am going to write, publicly or off the record, that āmental health care is valid and necessary.ā
I can understand your anger and distrust. No one should ever be subjected to forced psychiatric “treatment” of any kind. It’s a blatant assault on human rights and human dignity.
I value a person’s right to choose what is best for themselves.
Okay, Julie – I can agree with you on that — (it’s the “system” that’s corrupt), and not everyone who works in the field (though there are plenty of corrupt practitioners, too). I get daily reports from the OIG’s office on all the ways people in the mental health field are trying to fleece the system… I’ve always hated the way it’s structured, but I think the insurance conglomerates are every bit as much at fault.
And, I’m totally in agreement with you on the second point too. The problem is that some people don’t have strong family ties, or even if they do, they still don’t feel comfortable talking to someone in their family because of whatever family dynamics are at play… and they may have close friends, but don’t want to burden them, and sometimes their friends don’t know how to best help them anyway…
I’ve got a nephew who has really been struggling. He’s a very private person, and even though everyone in our family has been concerned about him, and we’ve reached out to him, he just wouldn’t open up to us… He sought counseling, and I forwarded the name of a particular therapist. I liked what I read about her reason for not using insurance to pay for her service:
* https://www.myslctherapist.com/private-pay-advantages.html*
I don’t know if my nephew ended up seeing her or someone else — but from all outward appearances, he is showing signs of improvement. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that he’ll continue to feel more hopeful about himself and his future, and from what I’m personally observing, whatever counseling he’s been getting is what is helping him. I’m going to repeat here what I’ve personally come to believe:
” No one denies that we all struggle and face difficult challenges from time to time.
Depression can seep into our lives; we may feel uneasy or stressed; and at times our mental state can become confused or temporarily unstable.
Mental healthcare is therefore both valid and necessary.
However, the emphasis must be on EFFECTIVE methods that improve and strengthen us ā those that help restore self-confidence, competence, stability and spiritual well-being.
Julie, I agree with most of what you’ve said, but I don’t believe that everyone working in the mental health field are ogres. Sometimes people just need some help in trying to sort out the problems of life… I’ve known people who have been harmed, some people who weren’t harmed or helped, and some who have greatly benefitted from a caring and wise mental health professional. It’s not all black and white..
I’ve also responded to De Facto. He’s right that the majority of distressed people are not more likely to harm someone — but it’s not fiction that some distressed people will experience distorted thoughts as a direct negative effect of psychiatric drugs and will act on them.
De Facto – the proposal does not suggest that the “majority” of people who use psych drugs become violent or act out on violent or psychotic thoughts, but some people do. The research is there. Maybe you haven’t read it? When you consider how many people are now prescribed psych drugs, if only 7-10% experienced these intrusive thoughts and acted out on them, you can begin to imagine the possible outcome… In some ethnic groups, the percentage of people who might experience the “rare” side effects of psych drugs is even greater.
The fact is that some people do develop thoughts of harming themselves or others on certain drugs, and some people have acted out on those thoughts. When you start looking into the lives of many of the school shooters, and a good percentage of others involved in mass shootings, you see the same patterns. I associate with a group of people who all wrote letters to Ben Carey because they either lost someone to suicide who were getting “mental health treatment” in the form of psychiatric drugs, or they actually harmed or killed someone else while using the drugs. A few of them were lucky enough to have good defense teams who presented the argument that “if not for the drug(s), the tragedy would not have happened”. Others have family members sitting in prison who were eventually able to come off the drugs, and they have no evidence of “mental illness” now. Try telling those people that psychiatric drugs don’t have those effects! And, it’s not just younger people who experience the worst of the side effects… the problem is that certain people — no matter their age, are simply not able to metabolize certain drugs, and there is no shortage of research on that, either. I’ve been looking at this issue and collecting the research on it for over a decade. The problem with certain people not being able to metabolize these drugs, and thus being more susceptible to the negative effects of psych drugs has been known about since the turn of the century. An excellent book on the subject is called “Cross Cultural Psychiatry”, edited by John M. Herrera, William B. Lawson & John J. Sramek — copyright 1999 and funded by none other than Eli Lilly….
https://www.amazon.com/Cross-Cultural-Psychiatry-John-Herrera/dp/0471985872
Yolanda Lucire, a forensic psychiatrist from Australia has also presented evidence on this, as have forensic scientists, Selma and Richard Eikelenboom.
https://www.drlucire.com
https://www.ifscolorado.com/category/ifsarticles/cyp450
And if you’ve ever taken time to look at ssristories.org, you’ll find psychiatric drugs to be the common denominator in all those tragic stories. If you would like me to send some of that research to you let me know.
Whether or not Carey will write more about this is anyone’s guess, but those involved with public health certainly ought to have a serious look at this, because it is a matter of public health concern.
Julie, for what it’s worth, I believe you. Just as there are good teachers out there and bad ones; good mechanics and bad ones; good doctors and bad ones – there are also good therapists and those who should have chosen a different career. And, that goes for different types of therapy. Dr Nedley, who is a doctor of internal medicine, stated that some therapeutic models are far more harmful than helpful, but cited CBT as a model he felt could be especially helpful.
I hope you write a book. I’d buy a copy and read it!
Oh, and just wanted to clarify my understanding of the proposal for action that Mickey posted here — it’s not just about SSRI drugs. I’ve read about military vets flipping out on fluoroquinolones, and benzos can make you feel like you’re losing your mind…. but I understand if you don’t feel this is the best outlet for your experiences. You’ll find the right avenue to express what’s in your heart.
Fred Abbe — who is it that once said, “the pen is mighter than the sword”? This proposal for action is a way for dissident professionals to protest. It would be great if those defined as “them” and “us” could gather together as one body and protest on the steps of legislative & parliamentary buildings across the nation and the world, but the logistics of that happening says it won’t. And maybe the NYT won’t do anything with these written protests, either…. but then again, maybe it might.
yeah_I_survived — Back in 2007 I was introduced to an introductory segment (on DVD), of a program that had been developed by an internal medical doctor out in Oklahoma that I found to be intriguing. I was too busy with other things at that time in my life to look into it further, but the impression of just that 1/2 hour video stayed with me for a long time until I finally found the time to look into it further. The program is called the “Nedley Depression and Anxiety Recovery Program”. I traveled out to Oklahoma and attended a training conducted by Neil Nedley, MD and then began to teach this program to my community. The program is offered in 3 formats: 1) a 10-day “residential treatment” program 2) as an educational program that takes place over eight weeks (one day or evening each week over a 2 hour period for eight weeks), and 3) as an online, self-help course.
While all three program formats are beneficial for anyone struggling, the 10 day program is by far the most beneficial (but also the most expensive). By far the largest criticism I’ve heard from anyone is that the program is based on Christian principles, so it won’t help anyone who isn’t Christian. Well, I’ve taught the ‘educational’ version of the program in a community setting to people of all faiths and those of no faith at all – and, the results have been astounding! You might want to look into it.
kumininexile — glad you wrote! Please let us know if you hear anything back!
Joshua, this information isn’t accessible in the comments section, but is included at the bottom of Mickey’s “Proposal and Call to Action”. You need to contact one of these guys directly to get the contact information for Ben Carey so you can send your letter to him. Leave a message on their phone if they don’t answer, and they’ll get back to you!
Steve McCrea (503) 516-8428 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Al Galves (575) 571-3105 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Mickey Weinberg (626) 394-0916 (Pacific Daylight Time)
I like your line of thinking, CatNight. I recently picked up a book – “Negotiating with Giants, Get What You Want Against the Odds”. Haven’t had time to read it yet; hope there’s something worthwhile in the pages. I’ll let you know if there is.
Oldhead – I’m aware of many folks who went back to school and emerged as a “professional” because they had some bad experiences and wanted to get in there on the “other side” to help shift the power balance. I’m interested in your defined parameters of who is “we” and who is “them”….
In the end, we’re all really part of this amazing human family. Some of us just have a few more warts than others.
CatNight – I’m over here in your cheering section! Please write! Save some lives š
Julie – You’ve said an awful lot in your post above, and I perceive that you’ve left an awful lot out…. and, you don’t think your experience should be heard? !!
People need to know these things from real people who have “been there”. Otherwise, all they hear is what their doctor tells them. Often they don’t learn that the feelings they’re experiencing are direct effects from the drugs they’re taking, or how awful withdrawal from a drug can be until it’s too late, and they’re going through that hell themselves…
You may be thinking that all of this has been said and discussed before, and people will believe what they want to believe. While that is true to a point, you and I travel in circles that a huge part of the world is unaware of… I only found these circles of support when it was far too late for my intelligent, imaginative, beautiful, beautiful boy….
Your words may save someone’s life, Julie….
It just occurred to me that I really should give credit and extend my gratitude to the good people in my life who helped me in so many ways in my struggle to understand my son’s death. Fred Baughman, MD, put me in touch with Dr. Dragovic. Barry Turner in the United Kingdom, put me in touch with Detective Andrew Whittle. Ann Blake-Tracy introduced me to Sheriff Richard Mack. These three people, and so many others (too many to mention here), have helped me in so many ways — and I am constantly reminded that we are not alone in this battle to expose the corruption and lies and deceit that result in the suffering and death of so many….
I wrote to Ben Carey too, and thought I’d share a copy of what I wrote to him, in the hope that it will encourage others to join this campaign, which I see as an effort worth the hour or so of your time to write a letter. All this effort might not net any result, but how do you know unless you give it a shot?
***
Dear Ben,
It seems like a lifetime ago since I first communicated with you. It was January 2004, when Vera Sharav suggested you contact me. [1] You were working on a story for the LA Times about SSRIs and suicide to coincide with the upcoming FDA hearings on this class of drugs. [2]
Back then when you interviewed me, I was using my former name ā Dawn Rider. A few months after the FDA hearing, I remarried and assumed an entirely new name.
You may recall that my twelve year old son, Kevin Rider, was diagnosed with depression by our family doctor and was prescribed Prozac. He died at the age of fourteen, the result of a bullet to his head. His death certificate says he died from a āself-inflicted gunshot woundā.
Suicide is a hard thing to deal with. It leaves in its wake so much heartache and so many unanswered questionsā¦ Why didnāt he talk to me? What did I miss? Why didnāt I know?
I eventually came to learn that some drugs can induce significant adverse events, including suicidal and homicidal ideation – and that some people are not good candidates for certain drugs. [3]
When I learned about the shady past of Prozacās development and eventual presentation to the public as a miracle pill, my grief and guilt transitioned to rage, and I filed a lawsuit against the drugās manufacturer. [4] [5]
In the course of that lawsuit, a young attorney asked for copies of my sonās autopsy report, and it was the attorney – not the coroner, who suggested my son did not kill himself; that in fact, his death presented more as a homicide. The attorney advised me to contact the Utah Attorney Generalās office. Itās a long story, and though a team of investigators acknowledged the blatant discrepancies between the original police report and the medical examinerās report ā the reopened investigation into how my son actually died was never completed.
On my own, I was able to secure statements from three experts in the field of police investigative reporting, homicide and forensics. Below are excerpts from the statements written by these three experts:
1. Andrew E.D. Whittle
Detective Senior Inspector of Police having served for 11 years in the Royal Hong Kong Police and three years in the Nottinghamshire Constabulary in the UK.
āThis incident should have been treated a suspicious death leaning towards a homicideā.
2. L.J. Dragovic, MD
Chief Medical Examiner – Oakland County, Michigan
āThese findings militate against self-infliction, and, ipso facto, undermine the accuracy of the manner of death listed as suicideā.
3. Richard I. Mack
Former Sheriff – Graham County, Arizona
āIn performing a law enforcement review and brief investigation of Kevinās death, it became somewhat difficult to do so, due to the poor investigation originally conducted by the Policeā.
Did my son die due to a suicide pact that went wrong? Did he kill himself? Did his friend who was with him on the day of his death pull the trigger? I honestly donāt knowā¦ Iāve come to believe that his friend shot him, but I still blame his death on Prozac, and I am on a personal mission to help others learn how and why Prozac and similar drugs can be killers.
Odd, isnāt it? That the available forensic evidence would lead one to believe my son was murdered, and yet I still lay blame on Prozac?
I will refer to my sonās friend as āTJā It wasnāt until after my son died, that I learned from TJās mother how TJ had been prescribed a cocktail of psychiatric drugs, beginning at the age of eight. TJ was having difficulty at school. His teacher told his mother that children like TJ often benefitted from Ritalin. But Ritalin did not prove to be a good drug for him, so his doctor tried something else that seemed to work for a while, and when it stopped working, TJ was prescribed something new.
TJ was still taking prescribed psychiatric drugs seven years later when he came to stay with us during that summer so long agoā¦ the summer that my son died.
Peter Breggin refers to psychiatric drugs as āneurotoxinsā. [6]
Street drugs like LSD, cocaine, heroin and PCP are also neurotoxins, and most of us know well enough to stay away from them, but we donāt think critically about the similarities between prescribed neurotoxic drugs and illegal street drugs.
Iāve come to view my sonās death as the outcome of the effect of neurotoxic drugs on the still developing brains of two adolescent boys ā by consent of two mothers who knew nothing about these drugs, whose fault was in trusting that their family doctors were more educated than themselves- which made them worthy of their trust.
I am not anti-psychiatry or anti-drug; but I am against being sold a false bill of goods. I am against the big lie of the chemical imbalance theory of depression and other problems of life that are viewed as āmental disordersā. I am enraged to know that the medical profession, which the public trusts, has been granted power to forcibly restrain and even forcibly inject neurotoxic drugs into someone, or shock them with ECT without that personās consent. I oppose the prescribing of psychiatric neurotoxins by primary care doctors and pediatricians who have only very limited knowledge of their effects or the problems experienced by those who wish to withdraw from them. I am against direct to consumer marketing by pharmaceutical firms, and I believe that when pharmaceutical firms are found guilty of callous and aggressive marketing tactics, hiding facts and other such shenanigans, their executives should be āforcedā right into prison. Time has proven that a financial penalty doesnāt stop those who profit at the cost of human dignity and human lives. [7]
I think another truth also needs to be laid bare to the public ā the answer to that question we all ask ā why do some people claim that drug X literally saved their life, but another person screams the same drug killed their child?
At one time the answer was a mystery to me, but it doesnāt take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
Honey is a forbidden treat for all infants, but most of them can enjoy it when theyāre older. Some kids canāt eat peanuts. Some people can smoke until theyāre 92 and not die of lung cancer. Some people try Prozac and claim it had no effect on them whatsoever; others claim Prozac brought sunshine and happiness into their life, and yet others blame Prozac for inducing terrible nightmares and urges to kill themselves or someone else.
The simple truth is that we all respond differently to things we put into our bodies. There is no lack of scientific research to back this up. What we donāt know, but what we should know is whether a particular drug will have its intended effect on us. The science in the field of pharmacogenomics may not yet be perfect, but it is available, and it could help save the life of someone who is not a good candidate for a specific drug. [8]
I believe mental healthcare is both valid and necessary, but the emphasis must be on effective methods that improve and strengthen us ā those that help restore self-confidence, competence, stability and spiritual well-being.
References:
[1] See attachment
[2] http://articles.latimes.com/2004/feb/02/health/he-ssri2
[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2301661
[4] http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/newsl/prozac.html
[5] https://www.drugwatch.com/ssri/prozac/lawsuits
[6] https://breggin.com/are-all-psychiatric-drugs-too-unsafe-to-take
[7] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4046551
[8] https://www.cyp450.nl/?page_id=3824&lang=en
Thank you for taking time to read this.
Kind Regards,
Cassandra Casey
Excellent article, Dr Breggin!
I’ve been working with a committee to come up with a plan to get legislators to sponsor a bill that will require a thorough examination of the relationship between these neurotoxins and violence, and your letter says just about everything we’ve come up with in over two years of work! BRAVO!!!
So, maybe we can scrap our work and just use your letter to introduce ourselves to our legislators? What do you think? We’d really love to have you come on board with us, and we even extended an invitation to you to join us, but maybe our email invitation ended up in your junk folder….
In any event – I’ll reach out to Bob and see if he’ll talk to you about our invitation.
Love you for your courage and common sense and for continuing to be a voice for so many whose voices will never be heard!
Cassie
Dave, thank you for your humility and courage in writing. You speak for so many other veterans who have found themselves looking back and wondering, how did I get here? Many of them struggle with how to express their experience and their feelings.
No doubt you are disciplined, as I am sure at times it’s difficult to hold back the anger and frustration that comes with realizing that what you have experienced was completely unnecessary.
It takes humility to admit — that an intelligent disciplined person as yourself –was pulled into what I refer to as the “drug trap” ….
I’m not a veteran, and I’ve never taken a psychiatric drug, but I can relate to what you have expressed from a completely different perspective. I’m a mother who lost her fourteen year old child more than sixteen years ago because I didn’t know then what I know now. It’s a difficult lesson to learn, but one that no one ever forgets once they learn it.
I’d like to help you in your effort. Are you familiar with Fred Baughman, MD (retired child and adult neurologist)? I can put you in touch with him and others. Fred has been speaking out and on behalf of our children and our veterans for years, and is connected to quite a few military families.
The problem is — I don’t know how to reach you. I’ll look you up on FB, or perhaps Mr Whitaker or one of his staff will share my contact information with you – he has my permission to do do.
May God bless you and strengthen you.
Cassandra Casey
Ron Unger – I agree with you on both counts. Dave has illustrated what so many others have unfortunately discovered. Secondly, you’re absolutely right that a gathering of an informed group with opposing views is necessary. I’d be happy to introduce you to such a group. I’ve sent you a friend request on FB as I’d like to discuss this with you and get your thoughts on the direction we’re taking. Thanks, Cassandra Casey
If a leader comes forth (or is appointed), and a strategy set in place, all those who agree with this movement will come forth… If the strategy can be broken down into small parts,, your allies will do all they can. As for myself, I can only devote the hours left at the end of the day to this effort – but I can rally the allies. My gift is as a connector… I am not a psychiatric survivor, and many of the people who agree with this movement are not “survivors” per se – but they are allies, and they want this as much as you do. And, it’s not just about psychiatry – it’s about the entire broken mental health system — there are family physicians and pediatricians who are just as guilty as the psychiatrists who dole out their evil “treatments”. Count me in.
Corinna, I just happened upon your post as I was reacquainting myself with Bob’s amazing site. Your words really struck a chord within me, and I want to thank you for inspiring me!
Though I don’t consider myself to be either a psychiatric survivor nor a member of the physical illness survivor community, I am most definitely in the clan of “Disruptive Women” in Mental healthcare! (BTW – I adore the term!)
I’ve emerged from that initial phase of “linking A to B” I find that to be a perfect description of how I started out; maybe it’s a natural step one takes when they know they have to do SOMETHING, but can’t quite grasp the full knowledge of what that something is… Anyway, I eagerly anticipate the use of your resources as I take that transitional leap from treading water to steering my own ship as captain! Ahoy, Mate!
BRAVO !!!! Bob, I can’t tell you how absolutely thrilled to find that you have invited these two brilliant women to contribute a series to your site! This is a topic that needs to be broadcast from the roof tops! Really? A concept so simple as feeding your brain good nutrition might just possibly translate to better brain function? YES, INDEED!!! It ain’t rocket science, but perhaps this is what we’ve needed – for smart women like these (rocket-scientist calibre of women)to guide us back to some plain old common sense! I LOVE IT !!! Thank you Bonnie and Julia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I share your interest in learning more about suicide, and look forward to the conversation. My fourteen year old son’s death certificate indicates he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head (a suicidal death), but I’ve long questioned if this was the actual cause of his death. I have three statements from various experts who believe he may have been shot by someone else, and that the stated cause of death is questionable. It makes me wonder how many deaths have been attributed to suicide, but may not have been.