Showing 35 of 36 comments.
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Why on do you always capitalize “identity politics” and bookend it with asterisks?
What is that meant to impart? Why not just use the phrase without unnecessary and grammatically incorrect punctuation and capitalization?
As a copyeditor, I find it this highly confusing. I would appreciate you explaining what the difference is between “identity politics” and “*Identity Politics*” in your mind. Perhaps that will finally help those of us who wish to know understand your personal, internal definition of the term.
You keep telling us we’re wrong about our definitions. Please explain yours and what your unusual grammatical choices with the phrase mean to you.
Capitalism isn’t the number one, much less sole, “impediment” to human cultures. It is beyond presumptive to assume everyone here agrees with you on that.
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It’s a Nazi term, oldhead. They created it along with “cultural Marxism”, aka “cultural Bolshevism” during the 1930s and ‘40s.
It’s a way of trying to argue that marginalized people shouldn’t be able to assert what our issues are and how we need them to be solved either as individuals or as a group. We must simply accept that we have it fine as it is, because white men tell us we complain too much.
Reality contradicts you, oldhead, I’m afraid. Are you familiar with the Overton window?
When the “left” is no longer progressive and isolationism reigns, nationalism has become a “leftist” value.
White supremacy only requires one to oppress marginalized people to take part in it. It has nothing to do with political views. It’s internalized bigotry in all of us. Including marginalized people. We ought to unlearn it so as not to harm ourselves and others.
Sad how so many people would rather keep harming marginalized people just to live in denial. Especially when those people are marginalized themselves.
It’s not “linguistic mumbo jumbo” just because you haven’t made an effort to understand it. Follow the links I’ve shared. You might just learn something.
Alex, sex abuse survivors don’t lie about how we were abused and by whom.
Ford is telling the truth.
Kavanaugh is a serial sexual abuser who should never have been held in esteem, much less allowed into a position of such extreme power.
There is no mystery to be solved here. And this goes far, far beyond US borders. Rape culture is globally systemic. That needs to change.
And it never will until people take us survivors at face value.
One doesn’t have to politically identify as a white nationalist to be one. One merely has to continue thoughtlessly oppressing marginalized people because you see them as “politics”. Not as individual people fighting for our basic rights and needs to be met.
Read. Learn. Unpack your privileges, as we all must learn to do:
Well said, Alex. LavenderSage, I share you frustration. I tried to look up what Richard claims is an alternate definition of “identity politics” to the one I know. Google hasn’t been helpful.
When one cannot explain what one means, it’s often a sign of fuzzy comprehension of a topic in the first place. At least in my experience.
“Leftism” and white nationalism are entirely compatible, sadly.
You’ll notice, Richard, I never mention “right” or “left” in my comment.
I simply point out that “identity politics” is a white supremacist dog whistle term, with sources backing up my explanation.
White people of any and all political views can be white supremacist. “Right” and “left” are irrelevant when it comes to white nationalist bigotry.
This is what he means:
“Discussions about identity politics are the new arguments about political correctness, which, as Moira Weigel detailed at length in this paper this week, have long been a means for the male, white and right mainstream to shut down any suggestion that others are worthy of a voice.”
“‘Identity politics’ is a far right dog whistle. The only identity politics being practiced is a refusal to accept the privileges of being a white man — the only division being fomented here is between a larger vision of a united humanity and the bigotry of the status quo.”
“Once upon a time, “identity politics” was a phrase heard occasionally in the halls of academia (at least, for those of us who were social science majors), typically in discussion of nationalist movements or other phenomena outside of day-to-day US political debate. Now, thanks largely to right-wing media, it has become a noxious catchphrase that lumps together all social justice movements — the fight for civil rights, equality for women, same-sex marriage, immigrant rights, to name just a few — into a belittling abstraction that makes these great historical movements sound frivolous.”
It is disturbing that someone who seems to be the sole moderator of a forum for extremely marginalized people is unaware of white supremacist dogwhistle terms. This term has been used widely in the news for several years now and has been thoroughly explained and debunked as white supremacist lies and hate.
I’ll just be over here, being trans and mentally ill at the same time while other people tell me that makes my identity inherently political. ‘Cause reasons.
Too little, too late, MIA.
This sounds like a fascinating read. Thank you for mentioning it. I’m very curious to check it out.
Thanks for the virtue signalling. What’s that Faulkner quote, again? Something about “sound and fury, signifying nothing”. It would be lovely if you would stop levelling accusations and ad hominem attacks at other users, imo.
Poorly said, Paul Keith. Clearly you’ve never been in conflict with the law. Or had your right to marry outlawed by bigots. Just as a couple examples.
How about you work on yourself before telling the rest of us what to do, hmm?
“We are the ones who wear their shame in the form of stigmatisation and discrediting labels, but it never belonged to us.” That is beautifully said, thank you. May I add that, with credit to you, to a little list of quotes I keep around for when I need to remind myself I’m not the only one struggling with these things? It really resonates. I often think about how it’s my eldest brother, my abuser, who should have spent his life living in shame for what he did to me. Not me for having survived his abuse with no help or support.
The term “people” would be inclusive of nonbinary people and others who are not binary male and female, Steve. Many of us are neither men nor women.
It is telling that you seem only to reply to commenters who are fellow medical professionals.
Very well said. Thank you.
madmom, drugging a human being against their will with a drug they do not need or want to take is abusive. Period. There are no excuses, no mitigating circumstances, no acceptable reasons for these parents to abuse their children.
If you wouldn’t accept a parent forcing their child to work an adult job because “I need money for my child and abusing them by forcing them to work is the only way I can get it”, then there is no good reason to accept a parent drugging their child “for their own good”.
Torture via forcible drugging is not for the child’s benefit when the parent thinks they are “sick” and will be “cured”. Torture via forcible drugging is not for the child’s benefit when the parent needs money to care for the child. A child should not be tortured to make their parent’s life easier and alleviate their guilt, stress, feeling of social stigma, etc over not having enough money to care for their child.
“I’m doing this for you” is a lie every abused child hears from our abusers. It is nothing but a lie. Just because abusive parents need to convince themselves they “had our best interests at heart” doesn’t make it true. If someone can’t help their child without harming them, they are an unfit parent and should never have had that poor child to begin with. So many of us who were raised in abusive homes would much prefer not to have been born at all. The vast majority of child abuse survivors I’ve spoken to feel that way. We’d rather never have existed than be abused and gaslighted by being told it was “necessary” and “for our own good” and “out of love”.
A loving parent would not torture their child. A loving parent would not put their child at risk of permanent brain damage caused by psychotropic drugs the child is being forced to take so the parent can more easily supplement their income.
Before you judge parents who forcibly drug their children as “not abusive” because you’ve neglected to consider the child’s needs, rights and desires, consider that it is not only “professionals” who think parents who do that are abusers.
Adults who survived abusive childhoods wholeheartedly agree that it is heinously abusive to forcibly drug a child with medications known to cause brain damage…for money.
We are rather experts on what abusive parenting looks like, given that we managed to survive abusive childhoods and live to see adulthood.
If you’re unwilling to listen to professionals telling parents to stop abusively drugging their children for any reason, perhaps you’ll at least listen to adult survivors of child abuse who agree with those professionals that it’s wrong to torture one’s children for any reason.
False diagnoses destroy lives. Forcible drugging destroys lives. There is no justification for destroying your child’s life to make your life easier while they’re young.
Parents, you want your kids to despise you like I and my mentally ill friends despise our abusive families? Then have your kids labelled “crazy” for extra money, and tell them it’s for their own good. You’ll raise a tiny, terrified, broken ball of self-hate, aimless rage and no comprehension of how we’re “supposed” to act like to be “functional” adults.
You labelled us broken as children just so you could afford us at all. Why should we disbelieve you that we’re broken when we’re adults? Apparently, we’re so crazy we needed to be stigmatized as children. We grew up believing the things you and the medical professionals you sicced on us told us about how we’re broken and fundamentally wrong. That never, ever goes away. And it damages you for the rest of your life.
You can’t gaslight a kid like that and expect them to thank you for your abuse. And make no mistake: it is nothing but abuse.
Stop justifying child abuse by saying the parents had no other choice.
As someone whose life was utterly ruined by parental neglect, I find it specious that you would try to remove responsibility from the parents for their child’s behaviour and instead label the child “bad” for having a temperament that does not interact well with his home environment.
You wish to label an eight-year-old “bad” purely to avoid “placing blame” on the parents for his misbehaviour. Even though family therapy has effectively changed and reduced his misbehaviour, pointing to the validity of the hypothesis that home environment and familial social interactions were the primary contributing factor in his parents’ perception that he was misbehaving in the first place.
With no further info on his family life than what was provided in this article, you have no grounds on which to label a small child “bad” and rule his parents innocent of treating their child inappropriately and thus causing and contributing to his acting out.
Sometimes it is, in fact, the parents’ fault when children are seen as misbehaving. I would go so far as to say quite often.
It pains me that adults—especially those with children of their own—are so much more likely to have a knee-jerk reaction of labelling a child “bad” just to avoid considering how often poor parental behaviour is the largest contributing factor too perceived misbehaviour in children. Hell, I remember being shamed growing up by my parents and other adults alike for mimicking the behaviours of adults around me. “Do I say, not as I do” is a horrendously toxic message, and it disturbs me to know children are still regularly being raised by those standards today, and then blanetly labeled “bad” by other adults for acting in ways that seem normative to the child; or for acting out in extreme ways because the child is faced with extreme circumstances in their home and family environments.
Until adults are willing to admit that, yes, parents regularly harm their children and that many parents’ “best” is just not good enough, children will continue to be maltreated and abused in ways both large and small by their own parents, and stigmatized by other adults as “bad” for not magically becoming “normal” while being raised in an inappropriate manner and a poor environment. Just as all the child abuse survivors I know have been treated, and continue to be treated as adult survivors of child abuse.
We get told not to blame our parents too. That they did their best. That it’s our job to forgive and forget. No. That’s not reasonable, nor is it possible—much less safe or smart.
Stop blaming children for the things their parents subject them to. Children are utterly disenfranchised in our culture, and are incredibly vulnerable. It is horrendous to label a child “bad” at age eight because it makes you uncomfortable to admit that perhaps his parents weren’t parenting him well enough.
For goodness’ sake, no one teaches anyone how to parent in our culture. Everyone makes it up as they go along, and the vast majority slide back into parenting techniques their parents used, even if they are abusive. Because that’s all we’re ever taught: parenting by example, and nothing more. Early childhood education is only for the university-going elites who plan to go into childcare as a career. Not for regular ol’ plebes who are just popping out kids and hoping against hope they don’t ruin their little lives.
And yet people of your mindset constantly try to treat parenting as this perfect, idealized thing that cannot ever be questioned or criticized.
How absurd, in a world in which people raised by abusers are expected to simply not be abusive themselves if they become parents. With no resources, no education, few to no systemic social supports, and nothing to fall back on but their memories of their own abusive childhood.
My parents both tried not to repeat the abuses their parents visited on them onto their own children. In specific ways, they succeeded. In the ways that mattered, they failed. They let my brother continue sexually abusing me even after I told my mother what was happening.
That is their fault. My complex PTSD is their fault as much as my brother’s; if they’d ever even tried to stop him properly and/or get my some sort of help for my trauma when I was three, perhaps I would not be the broken mess I’ve felt like since I was 15 years old. It is absolutely their fault that they tried to pretend my brother never abused me and chose to gaslight me for almost 30 years until I finally demanded to know if my memories were real.
If I’d had the opportunity to know that and talk about it in my teens, maybe I wouldn’t have decided I was inherently broken for no reason. Maybe I wouldn’t have started self-injuring. Maybe I would have been able to have a sense of self, or any boundaries to prevent myself from being sexually harassed and abused over and over again, with no ability to assert myself or say no. Maybe I wouldn’t have felt the need to physically harm myself for “doubting” my brother when I remembered what he did to me and had to hit and cut myself to convince myself they were just old, bad dreams and I was a monster for even considering that they might have been real.
I no longer blame myself for that. I do blame my parents. Because they are to blame. As are all parents who gaslight and coerce their children in ways both large and small.
We need to stop calling children “bad” and start talking about how virtually no one knows how to parent children without also harming them in our culture. Maybe then we can begin to make changes that will lead to children no longer being maltreated and abused.
There is nothing wrong with criticizing and blaming parents who are maltreating their children. There is something very wrong with calling a child inherently “bad” and absolving their parents of all blame for the child’s behaviour. Children are born into families. Not social vacuums.
This is very helpful to know, thank you. Mu insomnia has been very bad lately and I have been exploring potential sleep aids. I also have rather poor balance. Given your report, I suspect this drug would do me far more harm than good—I can end up bruised like on a given day that without any drug to make my balance even more precarious. I will be sure to avoid Ambien and similar drugs.
Extremely well said.
I’ll make my own conclusions. I don’t take unsolicited opinions and advice from strangers. Particularly when they are advising against seriously taking a well-cited article that adds to a long history of papers and articles providing a significant body of evidence that the experiment was false.
So one point of weirdness: the Stanford Prison Experiment has actually been proven false. My partner just informed me of this last week. Apparently the man who ran it forced the results to prove his theory:
I don’t think this changes anything about the point your making, which is still entirely valid. But in case you don’t know, I thought you’d be interested to hear.
This is a mistake I still make very frequently, and then curse myself for forgetting not to show them my hand. I know you weren’t addressing me, but still, thank you for the reminder.
The_cat, that’s brilliant. I’m keeping those ideas in my back pocket for if/when I’m eventually locked up. (Authorities keep threatening me with it, so I figure it’s fairly likely to happen.)