An ironic thing is that if we took to heart Smail & Epstein’s criticism of psychotherapy; that is, it is just a reflection of “heroic individualism” posing as a science, we would abandon it, and leave people to their own devices. In a word we would support heroic individualism. Some of us are acutely aware that psychotherapy and its cousin, psychiatry, are not sciences, and indeed are more pseudosciences; but the question of whether they are sometimes helpful or not is not answered by pointing out they are not scientific. Talking with one’s pastor is sometimes helpful even though there is no scientific evidence for much of what’s talked about. And in a world where psychiatry is constantly shooting itself in the foot, many grassroot helping services are springing up. Are they more helpful or less? I would say some attempt to measure outcome is better than none. The problem with “deliberate practice” is the demand characteristic of the measure – I think there is a real risk of people filling in the forms wanting to appease the therapist/grassroot helper. But don’t give them up, rather find supporting evidence. Two major ones – are they in full-time work or study now? Are they on medication now? These are sociological indictors; and by all means criticise these, but suggest alternatives.