Saturday, December 3, 2022

Comments by anotherone

Showing 94 of 94 comments.

  • Thank you Dr. Susan Swim,

    I appreciate your effort. I will email you the individual concerns as well as a summary of the reasons your program “rung my bells” . In my email, I will also reiterate the concerns that you did not actually address, and add follow up questions that I alluded to but did not clarify.

    I also hope this website continues to be a safe place to dialogue.

    If I created a program to help troubled teen survivors which was specifically triggering to a member of that population, I would want to know why so that I can remedy.

    I plan to write this email in good faith and I hope it is received in good faith. You are a mental health professional, you have all the power in every realm of the world aside from this tiny hamlet of the internet.

    I will proceed if given assurances that my email will be welcomed and received by you without retaliation by you. Otherwise, I still plan on emailing a contact at mad in america.

    You wrote about safety which illuminated another possible misconception between us. My understanding of safety, before we proceed:

    Voiced criticism- safe

    the troubled teen industry- unsafe

    Globalized retaliation by a powerful authority against voiced criticism i.e. retaliation from a mental health professional-unsafe

  • Follow up,

    I would love to be proven wrong! If this program’s marketing is only coincidentally akin to the TTI, if there is absolutely no affiliation with any TTI- related ideology, no affiliation with any TTI- related businesses, nor TTI-related expansion efforts, TTI marketing groups, TTI advertisement directories, TTI conglomerate corporations, TTI lobbying organizations, TTI financial insitutions, TTI- affiliated RTCs, I will write that in the proposed email with an apology and a follow-up comment here with an apology. If what I heard and know turns out to only be conjecture or unrelated to their genuine efforts of self-purported enormous success in mass-scale community healing, I will apologize

    As of now, I seek understanding


  • Hi Miranda Spencer

    I believed I was clear when I quoted individual blirbs from their website alongside my individual concerns.

    Though I understand the defensiveness so I will do more leg work to sufficiently evidence my lived experiences. I will e-mail the entirety of my findings, with followable evidence to whatever contact is available in Mad In America within the next 2 weeks. Thank you for opening up this dialogue as it is incredibly important.

  • Thank you for publishing my concerns Steve and for your response but I think it’s much worse than a bad middleman. I think you all at MIA need to be on guard, if not this, it’s only a matter of time before a rebranded TTI tries to advertise on MIA. Here is a former TTI from the same areas that has been rebranding for years (Trigger warning for everything):

  • I agree that the words said were decent, but check out the website. Birdsong, some of the most notorious tti’s to have ever existed marketed themselves as equine therapy and used the same talking points. Their website has an entire page on their connections with the troubled teen industry, while trying to, I guess, disclaim themselves from liability.

    All of my bells went off with this article, even more so with the name recognition from their organization. I know I’m sounding dismissive to this pro but the best defense against authoritarian violence from the mental health field is epistemic justice. Our actual experiences are the front lines against concept creep. This concept creep appears to be from the large swaths of pros seeking to expand the Troubled Teen Industry

  • There were quite a few indicators that this organization is the very same TTI affiliated feeder program I had heard about, but none so glaring as this quote from your website..

    “… All the research points to seeing and treating our clients as human beings and not an illness leads to complete and sustainable recovery. Can you say something here taken from the MAD in America article of which we have a link

    In 2018 we expanded our services to family and life coaching programs to create generational and inter-generational change for under-served populations experiencing trauma, severe family conflict, and parental alienation. where can we add this?”

    Diamond Ranch Academy? This you, natsap? A tti by another name smells just as fishy…

    Honorable mention to these quotes:

    “No horses are ridden. No horses are physically used. Instead horses create a therapeutic backdrop of natural, nurturing, and healing relationships within conversation formed between clients’…

    “…We believe that horses give us an legitimacy as therapists because maybe people can begin to trust us as therapists more as we take good care of the horses. What we see is a beautiful chorus of love that occurs of trust and safety for clients to heal and it’s also a win-win situation for the horses as they get love and attention all day long….”

    The TTI never shuts down, they rebrand and reopen. They are now scrambling for clout. This is a billion dollar per year industry seeking to recoup their lost revenue. Survivors finally have federal and societal oversight. MIA, please don’t get duped

  • From my own background knowledge, I am concerned that this organization is heavily affiliated with the troubled teen industry.

    Please disprove. I found this from your website:

    “Now I See A Person Institute attempts to prevent the Troubled Teen Industry through strength based therapy of what is right rather than wrong”

    Is this a fancily worded disclaimer? Or are you genuinely outside of the tti umbrella?

  • KateL,

    I’m not feeling particularly grateful either. These articles are uncomfortable. I can see that the right words are said, but there seems to be an endorsement of harm throughout, including the othering language and “savior” point of view.

    I think more epistemic justice is needed. I don’t want this site to be undermined by psych pro’s seeking to be seen as metaphorical “good apples”.

  • Bob,

    This is ridiculous… most of us here have been personally victimized by someone with your same credentials, singing the same tune, demanding that the “others” dance along. My local psych ward social worker, who could have written this article himself, used to take me into a secluded room by myself to intimidate me into “confessing” that my family is great and its all my fault. He’s still climbing the ladder, profitting from harming people. Uncoincidentally, he also support 12 step programs!

    So you all “gave” this peer support worker $50,000 to set these up? Why not more? All of your salaries are higher and what exactly are you doing to fix the system? Seems to be that his work is more beneficial to “patients” than whatever the pro’s are doing

    Maybe you should focus your attention towards your colleagues in social work. If there were standards and an actual regulatory body for your field, I bet the change would be more than incremental.

  • Birdsong,

    you are so correct. My prior response was to you also. (they’ve taken out the editing function and Im a messy writer)

    But with regards to any cluster B diagnosis, even NPD, I prefer to call out the behaviors of exploitation, sadism and violence without naming a diagnostic concept. I don’t think the DSM or psychiatry earns any validity. Plus, the victims of organized abusers are more likely to be diagnosed than the abusers themselves.

    All the cluster B diagnoses obscure and mystify the psych system’s power to enable widescale shunning and shaming of scared, hurt people.

    You make a great point when you touched on the male/ female dichotomy. I did write “femme” for that reason! Even when straight, cis men are diagnosed with BPD, there seems to be some element of misogyny.

    Their diagnosers profer some condemnation of “BE A MAN!”. It seems like the BPD concept is creeping into all variations of the system, like a putrid smog further poluting this already diseased moral police.

    After all, they can’t even decide if we’re human!

  • Joanna and Birdsong,

    glad you appreciated! The psych system in my region is so overtly absurd that the absurdity in itself can be identity-sparing. I’d imagine that if I had just gotten one stigmatizing diagnosis by a competent or organized authority, would be harder. Specifically, their overuse of bpd and schizophrenia diagnoses are so easily traced to classism, racism, misogyny, transphobia, homophobia that the authorities have deprived themselves of credibility.

    Sending my support and solidarity to you against that exploiting abuser. Stigmatizing, socially punitive diagnostic constructs set up their diagnosed to be exploited, abused, and hurt. You are not alone. You are in good company here. I am so sorry that happened. Forgive my impropriety here, but eff him.

  • Joanna,

    glad you opened this dialogue. Some of this difference in diagnosing is explained by the unique healthcare system in the US.

    1) Privatized companies run medical charts. These charts tend to disallow updates to diagnoses so a diagnosis that is inputed cannot be corrected

    2) Any professional with access can write a diagnosis in your medical chart. Sometimes, a misguided or sadistic punk med student will dig through old records. (A med student humor account publicly bragged about this. It’s considered a pasttime to mock mentally ill people’s charts). For me, they hit their goldmine because Im a troubled teen industry survivor. Those tti records are read by any medical professional because my family decided to share them with the the state to get me onto a conservatorship.

    3) Sometimes doctors will feel like they need to write a mental illness diagnosis and they will. this happens when someone is taking antipsychotics. I have been told this is a necessary procedure. “doctors have the right to know!” But its just bullying. I think medical training encourages some inhumane behavior.

    4) A few of my diagnoses are mispelled and don’t actually exist in any DSM. I’m not allowed to get those removed, despite extensive effort. Any doctor can see them when I need medical attention. So, a routine medical appointment can begin with an aggressive confrontation from a doctor like “YOU HAVE PSYCHOXIC ANOREXIC MANIA?!??” which can spiral into extreme danger for me. I have to avoid all doctors or find a way to escape the medical records. It’s tricky but not impossible.

    5) Conservatorships and disability- if you’ve been put into a conservatorship or disability, diagnosing prioritizes quantity. So this is the track that most “severely mentally ill” are put onto, where if that decision is made on your behalf, they need to have multiples of the most disabling diagnoses in your chart to prove needs.

  • Hi David,

    Just checked out your website and I love this. You’ve got a positive reaction from me. I’m usually very critical so its no small fete. Thank you for opening access to this treatment.

    In general, I have found the biggest obstacle to trauma treatment are untrustworthy practitioners. this eliminates the threat, no added unsafety of a potentially bad therapist. Could be quite useful for people like me whose trauma responses began in the troubled teen industry. I’m going to look into this more and may recommend. I appreciate your work and your efforts to share it here, David Busch. thanks

  • Joanna,

    In the US, at least in the southeast, its widely acknowledged that patients who advocate for themselves get a supplemental PD diagnosis. Commonly used as a code for “difficult patient” in the way that KateL described.

    If someone has good insurance or if their family is financially involved in their treatment, the diagnosis get piled on regardless of reality. I’ve gotten a dozen diagnoses so far, many are intended to call me annoying rather than address any real problem.

    Most people who’ve been labeled “severely mentally ill” in my region have an added diagnosis of BPD (if femme) or an NPD (if cis, straight male)

  • This was a great article! Vindicating but brutal

    This article discusses the technicalities which secure the gates of psychiatric research, ensuring that only academia can publish research on the mental health consumer.

    The MH field has such an egregiously violating, dehumanizing M.O. Juxtaposed this with the fact that many of their historical academia idealogues were fascists, just compounds the nauseating absurdity.

    They need to publicly disavow Aktion T4 and purge their eugenicist academics from the lesson books: Asperger and Dalton and the rest

    Unsuprised, but always grossed out to see this paradigm up close, it doesn’t need to shift, it needs to disintegrate into nothing and make way for something human

  • Reply to myself,

    This response was written last night in a slightly salty tone meant to explain my meaning to another commenter.

    I do agree with both Joanna and Birdsong. This work is nuanced, requiring a nuanced response. I have found that the surest way to end reform is binary praise. An ‘A for effort’ should not be expected, especially given that the power dynamic already invites practitioners to demand and enforce our praise.

    I can acknowledge that the work done so far was difficult. I think that acknowledgement must invite more effort, more fire for change. To applaud for a worthy effort is not to resign the imperative to continue.

  • OMG please read the exchange before being rude to me specifically:

    1) I don’t want anyone to answer me. I specified Joanna’s points

    2) This is Mad in America. They’re posting here and we are all here, to facilitate discussion. Yes, I am trying to facilitate discussion. No breaks should be needed for a benign comment, designed to…facilitate discussion…

    3) It’s not impossible to do another interview or to continue on with current work, while keeping in mind Joanna’s points. Nor is it impossible to address them here.

    4) Paid researchers who are paid to research *our experiences* , are discussing their work to us, so it’s ok for us to reply with an alternative to applause and praise. Why else are we all here if not to rethink the current paradigm?

  • Joanna, your comments are apt.

    Anyone who profits from the psych field needs to integrate the reality of the psychiatrized into every tenant of their work.

    Further, if these psych professionals are working on our behalf, they need to sufficiently respond to the grave concerns you have so graciously illuminated.

    Julia Lejeune or Dr Morgan Shields, will you answer Joanna’s comments?

  • John Hoggett,

    You are absolutely correct, but its also already affecting the UK. International children, including those in their countries’ foster systems, have been trafficked to Utah for decades. The troubled teen industry is a global crisis, requiring a global effort

    If you have the stomach for it, look up the most recent lawsuit against West Ridge Academy in Utah. Involves the UK

  • Thanks Birdsong! I looked up the author again. His name is Carl Elliott. This is from his article called ‘Response- Corruption of Character in Medicine’,

    “While my reasons for leaving medicine were complicated—the anti-intellectual attitudes, the authoritarianism, the thinly veiled hazing rituals—the most important one was this: I had come to believe that medical training was turning me into a terrible human being.”

    I got the term, bulverism from his writing. Apt description for the current paradigm.

  • Birdsong,

    Always a big compliment when you agree with me. Glad you showed up to this big, sprawling debate.

    To the unconsciously myopic: I think rigid thinking and unencumbered ego are mandatory to snag the requisite degrees. There was an author shared here who writes about bulverism in medicine too. He’s written books on the field’s cruelty. Suffice to say, the pathology of psychiatry has been peer-reviewed.

  • Lilybit

    This is Laura’s experiences with a segment of the mental health system that enables, works with, and lends legitimacy to an unregulated, terrifying other segment known as the troubled teen industry. The troubled teen industry (TTI) is a network of for-profit punitive, carceral facilities for teenagers. “Private pay” signifies that the incarcerated children have not commited any crime. They are *not* sentenced to these facilities by any court, but rather a family pays to imprison them. Most of these secret prisons are in Utah. I was another “private pay” TTI-Incarcerated.

    Her article is profound and its contents are harrowing. However, her article and your comment are not related. Its important to read more than the title before leaving a comment.

  • Brenda,

    Your comments are a bit mean. I’m a bit mean myself, so take it from me, there’s an upper limit to making your point. Beyond that you’re just insulting others. We are all people. Even when we disagree, we’re still people. You’re welcome here. None of the criticism is against you personally. People have different experiences, viewpoints, and voices and we share those here. This cite is unique because you can share whatever your view, even if it’s pro-status quo.

  • Thank you Laura!

    Hello fellow TTI survivor! I was sent to Utah too: white vans, utter despair, solitary confinement, no love, no affection, no friendships, just shame and cruelty within the prison of propaganda. All of this was so similar to what I survived. Thank you so much for your account! Your courage and genuine kindness are restoration for all of us coming up for air. So many of us survivors are here speaking out. I feel like part of me never really left Utah but like you, I gathered the pieces and made myself back better. I vouch for every part of your painstaking account. We made it out! We are safe! We are free! and we’re going to get these places shut down.

    I see you survivor

    Draper, Utah and West Jordan, Utah 2006. 11 months
    I’d be happy to connect if you’re open.

  • Joanna,

    you’re welcome. And yes, I do notice which posts are by an author and which are an author’s repost of another author. And yes, to be fair it can be tricky to understand endorsement. I am somewhat confused about why this reposting and summarizing is done.

    I can see how my insistence can be seen as rude, I believe strongly in epistemic justice. There are too many mental health conversations that exclude us. Too few where we can safely express dissent without retaliation. I understand that my views are my own, I do not care to prosleytize. I like this site for the freedom of discussion but I feel a personal imperative to speak against concept creep from the more egregiously violating aspects of the MH industry. i believe that particular reposted article was both an endorsement of harm and concept creep so I spoke accordingly.

  • TY0987,

    I also compare it to feudalism!

    Absolutely concur with this point:

    ” anyone who suggests that capitalism is an advancement from feudalism needs to understand that there are no differences between the two.”

    Hello fellow southeasterner! Brutality and assigned scapegoat roles- cronyism is law in my state too. Could not agree more with this:

    “I have a front row seat of what capitalism does to people. Capitalism is a biased system whose modus operandi is always getting the dough via oppression of the “other.”

    With regards to the anti Chik-Fil-A movement, you are correct in that it did snowball into reductivist brawling. But its origins were valid and warranted. It wasn’t about gay marriage. It was about conversion therapy, which is legal in the segments of the troubled teen industry that misuse religious protections.

    The former CEO had a charity that funded much of the conversion therapy in the US. those protests were successful since Chik-Fil- A stopped funding conversion therapy.

  • TY and Nijinsky,

    I’m really enjoying each of your points of view.

    My prior support withstanding, this article seems obfuscating. The premise is valid, but any nuanced debate on this can obscure the actual issues. I just want to be safe, have a good life, be free. I don’t need to get into the weeds about the new terms for the same bs.

    I’ll wave my identifier flags anyways: I’m on the left and LGBT. I can still overlook myself to identify the social dysfunction profiteers. The MH system makes money from societal suffering. I’d prefer solutions and less complicated explanations.

  • JosĂ© G. Luiggi-Hernández,
    This article is an improvement: a stark contrast from your prior article of pro-misogyny pontificating. I am hopeful you heeded our feedback

    These theories deserve the platforming: we all live in capitalism so the data is real, measurable, repeatable, and is based on reality (unlike the assumptions of dsm labels). The mainstream embraced this too, even the best-sellers lists. Johann Hari, a sociologist and author, often details similar links between suffering and disconnections in modern neoliberal/ individualistic capital-driven society.

    More researchers should pursue a stronger union between psychology and sociology that focuses on real problems and real solutions. If psychology stopped the carceral, punitive, enabling of drug profiteering and just fully embraced human reality- my god- A mental health system that helped someone’s mental health?! would be wonderful

  • Bcharris,

    You make a good point with the lead. When I was young in the early 2000s, almost half of my grade year was diagnosed with ADHD. Most of my other friends had the diagnosis. The only non-ADHD diagnosed people were privileged outsiders with loving families- so no mainstreamers. Parents sought out ADHD diagnoses without prompting from schools. Sometimes, getting their child an ADHD diagnosis and stimulants was a status symbol

    We also had normalized family violence, lead contamination, lead pipes and lead paint chips.

    I recently found a series of articles confirming the high rates of diagnosed ADHD in the southeast, it was a profit machine in the early aughts. The psychs claimed an ADHD epidemic in leui of acknowledging our broken neoliberal culture and our poisoned environment.

  • John, Good for you for seeing the truth. It probably did help him

    I can speak from my own ‘lived experiences’ to say I am grateful for the many concerned laypeople who planted the seed that I was normal, good, and could one day be free. Still, the identified patient role cost so much. This whole industry is trash. If there is any chance my writing here can spare someone else, I can get value from all this garbage

  • This article is painfully relevent. ADHD was my gateway diagnosis. I was one of the drugged kids constantly made worse by stimulants. Without stimulants, I was calm, collected, smart, studious, sensitive and responsible.

    In my teenage years, I had a stimulant-induced psychotic break, which hurled me into the world of “serious mental illness”. It is a sadistic industry.

    Now that I survived well into my adulthood, I am extremely proud to be part of the whistle-blowing efforts by people like you. This information has the power to liberate and to restore dignity.

    Great article. Thanks for your contributions

  • Sam plover is correct: there would be no adverts if not for psychiatry.
    Drug advertisement is integral to psychiatry’s purpose. Psychotropic drugs were originally created by other specialities. Usually, they are anti-convulsant medications or allergy meds that failed testing in those fields. Psychiatry repurposes trashed drugs to create profit.

    Psychiatry sells drugs that other specialties cannot

    Whataboutism fallacies don’t apply. lol -come on-

    Great article! Very helpful info

  • This was solid reporting. I’m glad the NYT is interviewing survivors. One correction is that death toll is way higher, hundreds have died and not dozens, as NYT wrote

    I’m a survivor myself. I want mainstream providers to 1) stop referring to these places, 2) stop recommending these places, 3) understand the actual ramifications of attack therapy and attachment torture 4) not validate psych records from these places (since they are false and include false and forced confessions)

    The main reason why I identify myself as a psychiatric survivor foremost is because my mental health treatment, disability services and psych drugs were all informed and connected to the troubled teen industry. The TTI is unimaginably horrific.

    Still, mainstream providers remain dangerously uninformed. Most of the ones I have spoken to support the TTI, vouch for their colleagues who refer to and work for the TTI, and tacitly uphold the torture tactics done in the tti. By torture, I mean the most literal use of the word. These TTI torture tactics include isolation from contact with the outside world, enhanced interrogations, solitary confinement, synanon’s ‘the game’ aka attack therapy, and various other torture tactics similar to what prisoners of war go through. Too many psychiatrists and therapists naiively endorse these places. In doing so, they are contributing to stigma against survivors. They are endorsing the TTI’s smear campaigns against their falsely imprisoned and limiting survivors’ chances for recovery.

    The mental health system must vehemently and uniformly disavow this industry.

  • Birdsong,

    Your endorsement is an honor. Thank you for speaking truth to power.

    100% agree to all of your words. Regarding my assertion that the author acknowledge reality, This is EXACTLY what I meant:

    “These people are as screwed up and behave as badly as anyone they “treat”, and their belief in their moral superiority (and in the MH system) is what makes them the most screwed up and dangerous people out there.”

    The article itself doesn’t say much, but like you, i know the implications. Nobody should have to survive pointless punishment for profit. Vindicating that so many here see this for what it is.

    MIA, please incorporate our feedback against this article.

  • Rebecca, words cannot express how grateful I am for your platform. You have so much behind-the- scenes support for your prior article. And well said, Kate. Am in agreement with you both.

    also, this is on point:

    “It is a huge mistake to think these individuals labeled with this crap diagnosis lack mentallization. It’s not that people who struggle with mentallization will struggle with DBT. It’s that people who realize that this assumption about them is wrong and who do not enjoy harmful treatment will find DBT for what it is, which is harmful and and often, abusive. Please stop using this pejorative label.”

    This article is the status-quo stigma. Like Kate explained, BPD stigma dog-piles are brutal for psych survivors, so I’m holding the line. Will keep commenting support for my fellows.

    MIA, can you screen these types of articles? This is problematic

  • Right!

    Its like- Nothing to see here! The profit incentive is totally no biggie. This authority that *definitely* learned from its big woopsies like lobotomies and aktion 4s is now fully trustworthy. Will fix the bpds! If it wasn’t so disturbingly obvious, I’d laugh.

    “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

    – Carl Sagan

  • Steve, you’re right. “The beatings will continue until moral improves” is what happens. they keep trying to rebrand totalitarianism. I don’t buy it.

    To my fellow madpersons here:

    “You have to act as if it were possible to radically transform the world. And you have to do it all the time.” Angela Davis.”

    We can end the perscribed harm. We can get restoration and we can radically transform the world

  • Robert,

    Agreed. I’d guess the funding is from whichever people are trying to recoup lost revenue from bad press. so the attack therapy therapists may be the puppetmasters here.

    Though ‘fix the borderlines by force’ is a pretty constant mythos in the MH system. This coding of hysteria has so many horrible connections. I’d love to know the who’s and why’s too. Still hoping for transparency but until then, its safe to assume the usual corruption and just hope you never get this (not) new treatment

  • Marie and Steve, totally agree. this quote exemplifies your points:

    “Without adequate [reflective functioning], it may be more difficult for an individual to effectively apply certain DBT skills—for example, in applying interpersonal effectiveness skills, normative [reflective functioning] may be helpful to accurately identify one’s own goals and the likely responses of others to best plan an effective communication to get one’s needs met.”

    So context still doesn’t matter in psych research. The author noted limited data on socioeconomic environments of participants of the study…

    If someone is surrounded by people or institutions (i.e. the medical system) who dislike them and want to harm them, it’s more helpful that the client realistically asses their actual situation instead of complying with an idea that the client is to blame for their life. If their environment sucks, it’s not because the person is difficult or has low empathy. Lots of situations are sucky right now and piling on the state-sponsored blame and shame isn’t helping

  • This article works off a false, but insidiously common MH system bias, that the practioner is morally superior to their clients. In pursuit of my own epistemic justice, I need to “push back” on this entire premise and whatever conclusions have been drawn. We have enough bad therapy for BPD. Irreverent therapy, which is just bullying, is still a common “approach”.

    Honestly, I’d prefer insight into how psychiatrists and therapists can improve their own reflexive functioning. No more groupthink passed off as research. Acknowledge reality.

  • Nijinsky, great points! The powers at be are full of it. This country has the houses, space, money, everything to take care of its people. There are currently more empty houses than there are unhoused! We pay the government to provide a social security net. Where’s all that money? Why can’t any of it go to housing?

    Yes, these policies are *delusional* (by their own definition) and yes, the authorities are corrupt and at this point they’re just flexing their fascism. Glad the ACLU is on the case. Hope the care court survivors get bank in lawsuits. APAB

  • Miranda, great point and thanks for introducing me to that acronym. Another commenter here spoke of Newsom’s co-conspirator, Darrell Steinberg, having institutionalized his daughter in an out-of-state facility when she was 13. Did Steinberg put his daughter in the troubled teen industry and is the tti-mentality informing these policies? I think discovering those connections could help Californian psych survivors. Especially since the ‘cash for kids’ scams in California were found to have profitted the tti enormously.

  • “In locking us away,” she writes, “it is so much easier for society to pretend that the original harms never happened at all. Society can hold on to false but comfortable beliefs that institutional harms live only in history books, that inequality is a battle largely won, that the world is a safe place.”

    Phenomenal quote. Thank you for this article.

    What can we do to stand with californian psych survivors?

    -Anotherone. Here to assist in resistance efforts.

  • Great that this info is out, but we now exist in a country that mandates full-term pregnancies while denying bodily autonomy to anyone with mental illness.

    I’m pro-patient autonomy. I also know that many pregnant women are bullied or forced into remaining on SSRIs .The MH enforcers tend to increase brutality when their patient becomes pregnant and the ‘bad apple’ psychiatrists lead those efforts in degradation. The psych field is unsafe to women (and to NB, trans pregnancies) and needs scrutiny. Though, I do think this article will be validating to the many mothers who fought back against SSRI drugging while they were pregnant..Everyone else deserves restoration

    Lawsuits needed on behalf of the mothers who were pushed, forced, or mislead to stay on these pills.

  • Steve, I appreciate your response to the clear attempt at obfuscation.

    Pete’s recital of terminology, despite the linguistic accomplishment, brings nothing of value to this conversation.

    The other fact remains that NO (zero) genetic tests are required to diagnose mental illness.

    I believe the misreprentations of non-science is the popular new ploy to minimize the actual documented consequences caused by the (still) unsubstantiated biomedical model

  • Absolutely Kate!

    The author signed off on his orders with a MSW next to his name. He knows the problem but he himself cannot change anything because he is compensated to be the problem…

    The performances are obvious and insulting, Robert. Please do these steps yourself and then tell us how it goes.

    -anotherone (making changes without a masters in social work)

  • Rebel,

    Awesome comment!

    ‘”Success” like “recovery” can be over-used and can also be manipulated against another in both clinical and non-clinical situations.”

    This and your points on dignity were crystal. The clinicians should be trained in dignity and how to genuinely understand people outside of their well-insulated bubble of degreed privilege. They don’t see how limiting are their interventions when they have never been personally limited. By “limited”, I refer to the socioeconomic maligning endemic to SMI diagnoses: loss of career and career opportunities, extremely stigmatized disabilities caused by doctors which causes further targeting by doctors, ad nauseum..

  • Oh yeah!

    Well said. They’re tying stones to people and demanding that they swim.

    If they want us to be like them with their “services”, we should get practical services akin to the support they received to obtain their cushiony judgement jobs in mental health. We should get scholarships, paid positions for *us* to speak on *our* lived experiences, the right to fix retaliatory medical records, the right to clear our medical records.

    Do they think someone can get rich and successful only by being terrorized and chemically assaulted by totalitarian thought police? …

    As of now, the real recovery is recovery from them.

  • Kevin,

    I fully agree.

    It is problematic and reductivist. It seems like there’s a line being towed. Almost like this narrative is excusing the high profit centers… Yes, they are all abusive. Children are hidden away to be punished. Obviously, abuse will occur.

    An exposé on the most obvious aspect of carceral centers- that they are abusive- does nothing to challenge the corruption and secrecy that maintain this industry.

    As a TTI survivor, I want acknowledgeable of reality, not to be further objectified. We are not fodder for spooky trauma stories.

    Further, this article seemed to blame the low wage workers for the harm. The TTI is worse than mean, low-paid employees.

    They are told to bully children. This is the design! The shame therapy comes from a cult called synanon which has ties to much of the wealth in the US.

    Mitt Romney, for example, made a fortune from the Utah “schools”. Utah’s trafficked “troubled teens” creates much of the state’s revenue.

    Nothing in the report explains their scale and power nor their appearances of legitimacy

    an exposé on the tti should explore:

    1) attack therapy
    2) solitary confinement for children
    3) constant monitoring
    4) no access to outside world
    5) financial collaboration with child psychiatrists
    6) not guaranteed the same rights as prisoners.
    7) education consultants who work as head hunters for the tti
    8) transportation services (hired by parents to kidnap kids to the industry)
    9) mandatory group confessions and shame punishments
    10) heightened interrogation tactics (like guatanomo bay)
    11)Absolutely no barriers to entry for those private pay children.
    Kids are regularly sent by parents for minor disagreements
    12) Absolutely no rights for family who dislike the TTI and want to free their TTI incarcerated relative. It is extremely difficult to get the kid out once the parent signs the paperwork because the parent gives the TTI partial custody
    13) Some have expensive marketing campaigns and widespread advertising.
    14) Taxpayers fund the TTI
    15) They are fully legal. Laws protect them from accountability

    While I am enormously grateful for these inquiries and can support the need to convey meaning to the non-TTI survivors who are unaware, I think there should more

    The TTI is larger than people care to admit and to relegate it to this removed, seperate issue is unhelpful. It’s everywhere and has connections to every other aspect of the MH system. Bravery is needed to see the truth.

  • Oh absolutely Boans! wow. The mental health system always tells on itself. They are so big, so proud and getting sick of winning.

    The behemoth’s strongest remaining scaffolding is that the comfortable believe in it. They think psych survivors are others, unfortunate, to blame for their disability.. but the MH System is expanding services! Everyone gets access to the bs!

    When the majority of the people are scared to become one of “them” , then we will get reform real quick. no effort needed, they’ll finally fix their mess.

  • absolutely. The suburban parents outsource their own victims into the troubled teen industry. Many of us were sent there because our parents were abusive and we either had been diagnosed with BPD as children or were diagnosed with various cluster B disorders once we got to the TTI. Per suburbia’s weird use of mental health, they trafficked us into the troubled teen industry and removed us, the evidence to avoid loss in social standing. Wealth and the appearance of morals are above moral actions within this paradigm

    *this isn’t every TTI survivor’s story. But certain brands of therapeutic boarding schools absolutely exist to enable and cover for abusive families who need to keep up appearances within neoliberal suburbia

  • Kayla, I’m so sorry that happened and nobody deserves this diagnosis. I am unsuprised that they now utilize the diagnostic equivalent of a buzzfeed quiz to diagnose BPD. Accurate- the BPD label is bs.

    … the weirdest part of this article is the layering atop of hate speech with statements that “this population” avoids “help”. WONDER WHY? Jeez.

  • I’m so sorry to your wife. The medical gaslighting is extremely demeaning and kudos to her and you for seeing the truth and calling it out.

    And- HA! Customer service??? can you imagine? We can dream!

    Here’s my go-to analogy for their customer service:

    If I work at a coffee shop with 10 people, 6 of us sell coffee and the other 4 throw coffee in people’s faces and have them locked in the basement “for their own good”. This would be a pretty bad business even if i was part of the nice group of coffee venders..

    Some are doing amazing things truly, while some are harming their customers without mercy. Would be helpful if the service user wasn’t caught unaware with the latter group.
    Customer service in therapy especially aka humanism would be amazing and is clearly how things should operate.

  • Then they’d charts something like:

    *”patient is splitting by claiming mistreatment from my colleague, the antichrist. Patient needs a higher level of care from myself and Dr. antichrist.”

    They genuinely don’t want to believe anything bad about their field. When in doubt, the lowest in their nonsensical hierarchies are the most responsible for all of them

  • agreed.

    I believe these people could have a referral relationship with the literal antichrist and somehow blame their clients with something from the script, like: “that sounds really tough. See, my approach is much more hands-off since I’m not the antichrist nor am I personally trying to herald the end of days. So that’s not my responsibility to control my colleague, the antichrist. But by goly, there are some bad apples out there. Sorry that happened. that will be $300 and I can try to refill those scripts from Dr. Antichrist but no promises. You may have to ask him”.

  • Sam Plover,

    Absolutely. I hope DBT therapists start to understand this. Kind of ridiculous that our experiences are so shocking.

    This type of lived experience seems to be common:

    Psych doctor asks patient on a date, patient is obviously uncomfortable and rejects them. Psych doctor diagnoses them with BPD. Any inquiry into psych’s behavior is dismissed via stigma about “that population”. This usually shuts down official inquiry. If the patient confronts the psych doctor, psych doctor then claims to have acted ethically and appropriately. They do this by citing currently practiced and clearly abusive forms of therapy against BPD like ‘irreverent therapy’ (sometimes done with DBT and is the precursor to the TTI’s attack therapy). they may then continue to DARVO by recommending male gaze-ridden scientific literature on BPD by misogynist psychiatrists. Nothing is stopping them from claiming the patient is ‘a risk to themselves or others’ so they may have their patient commited too. Plus, everyone knows that this population is (whatever convenient insult fits) so no real risk to this psych doctor’s career for any of this.

    If the doctor decides to harm their client, the BPD dx is their weapon of choice.

    Psych researchers and therapists need to investigate their field. As of now, the ranks of psych survivors are increasing because therapists may feel shocked by their colleagues, but they make no move to rectify the situation. There is a preferable solution to feeling horrified and that is to not license bad apples and to forge a genuine regulatory body. that whole “we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing” doesn’t work

  • YES to this:

    “In centering ownership over one’s own experience, survivors are advocating for a model of “recovery” that cannot be universally defined or solely tied to “good outcomes” such as employment and independent living. Furthermore, some survivor-led literature proposes that notions of “distress” and “recovery” should not be understood as treatment or intervention targets at all…”

    This is one of my favorite points. To the part about lack of uniformity: I like how you’ve explained the diversity of ideas held within survivors groups. I want to add that those divisions are points of pride for many of us. There are no boxes in which to jam us in, we cannot be divided and conquered because we exist without uniformity.

    The mental health system regularly criticizes psych survivors’ movements for a lack of cohesion, but the lack of uniformity in our objectives is a strong cohesive.

  • Same! I also visualize their term “approach” like a pack of lions approaches gazelle:

    I.e “well MY approach is (somehow better) because (iteration of blame/ demands for fealty)”

    this is when they circle.

    “we have determined your complaints against us to mean that YOU need ( punishment for profit) more intensive care!”

    this is when they feed

    I personally dislike the MH’s seizing of and enforcing of language they have almost no stake in: The person hurting me demands that I remind them of how they are morally evolved… this is modern therapy. It’s more than moral exhibitionism, it’s more than co-opting, it’s spiritual torture.

    I’d just like to be left alone/ no longer approached.

  • Thanks Steve! I’m liking this forum and glad I took the plunge and started commenting.

    We as a society are not okay with any acknowledgement that people suffer.

    To say you were abused and now feel angry and hopeless and afraid- that’s not ok.

    But to say you were abused and then developed a completely unrelated, lifelong biological mental illness- that’s somehow correct? and logical?

    that social paradigm screws with your psyche in and of itself. no antipsychotic damage even needed, but the skinner-esque social programming, pharmaceutical “medications” and dangerous unproven treatments really sell the scam

  • Can you imagine applying any of those DBT tenants outside of DBT?

    If you get in a fender bender, have to deal with the police and insurance agencies, do you do a DEAR MAN? no, because the police would think you were drunk .

    those DEARMAN instructives do not work in any practical setting. They never work when you’re begging the system for a morsel of dignity. My years of DBT “training”, First in the troubled teen industry, then at the neighborhood DBT clinic, then in adult rtc’s did not help me or my situation. Not because I was too difficult, but because DBT’s social programming is incompatible with life success

    Just one example: If you remove context of BPD stigma, how would their “may not have caused all your problems…” slogan look?

    “Escaped child soldiers may not have caused all their problems, but they’re responsible for fixing them.”


    “Starving shipwrecked castaways may not have caused all their problems but they’re responsible for fixing them.”

    This would be ridiculous and if anyone said this, they would be seen as a jerk. DBT therapists get the pass because they stigmatize their “patient population”.

    The nooks and crannies directly outside of the mainstream system are as perilous as any other human rights abuses, hence the near ubiquitous use of DBT in institutions. While you’re there, you have to know as a SMI patient: “my fault. my fault”

    To the providers here: if the treatment modality is authoritarian, it will be used in authoritarian settings to force compliance. I don’t know the disconnect in understanding unchecked power. The MH field has unchecked power and it is corrupting.

  • KateL and Steve Crea, absolutely yes!

    I was diagnosed with BPD while I was a child. This field is violent..The richest, most powerful and most comfortably sadistic psychiatrists need to punch down. When these MH careered bullies aren’t mocking scared kids and battered women (the actually diagnosed borderlines), they mock any colleagues they relegate to the BPD wasteland alongside their targets. Those DBT therapist colleagues either 1) see the bullying for what it is and use their own DBT skills to not engage or 2) Conform and pass that hatred onto their clients whom the clinicians decides to blame for the clinicians low status.

    Obligatory disclaimer of *not all counselors* (obviously).

    Would be helpful if the truly sadistic ones, who take the step further into abject brutality, finally lose their licenses. Abusive doctors hide their misdeeds by diagnosing BPD. If you give restoration to their harmed, you guarantee mental health outcome improvement.

    As it is, the mental health field refuses insight into their own condition, hence their incessant endorsement of absolution rituals via DBT.

  • “give children more antipsychotics! 10 ANTIPSYCHOTICS ARE PERFECT. THE KID’S just a bad person!! cluster b is for bad people. the problem isn’t the drugs, it’s the young girl”- a medical professional.

    really wild ride. like a roller coaster that extended to hell. This psych doctor blamed a child to avoid extending a tiny sliver of compassion. True, this is what we’re up against. On a related note: i was given a BPD diagnosis at 14.

    When I speak on that aspect of my experience, the professionals never fail to inform me that never happens. They sometimes kindly suggest that I may have made it up with my manipulation spooky mental brain. We see that this doctor endorses diagnosing kids with cluster b disorders so it does happen and it must not be rare.

    God spare us from whatever they come up with next

  • Glad I saw your comment Joanna! I spoke of the same thing. I was surviving institutionalization while they got all their degrees and money. I still know a bit more about life after being a SMI patient. I have no patience for survivor spaces that prioritize the least affected. We lose the point when the powerful people of the system get all the power here too.

  • Patrick Hahn, Thanks for addressing the pointlessness of this debate by defining the buzzterms that so often detract from true meaning.

    Not to immediately use another buzzterm, but I’m someone with ‘lived experiences’. I can tell you why I’m critical in few words: I deserve to live.

    Am I not part of the country that guarantees its citizens the “right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”?

    My mental health care was forced, incessant, and violent. If someone called me a b*tch, that may hurt my feelings, but it wouldn’t cost my right to equitable medical care. The DSM labels are so much worse than insults. The bs riddling my medical records like a regina george burn book is a permanent insult. Considering the side effects of antipsychotics, exclusion from real medicine is an insult tantamount to murder. When I had gallstones for a month and finally hobbled into the third urgent care, the doctor cried from fear of being in the vicinity of a spooky mental person (I still had to pay, but kept my gallstones). That’s the medical treatment awaiting us after the psychiatrist damage our bodies: Mocking, bias tears, or more violence.

    The “professionals” condone, excuse and perpetuate worse behavior than any of their diagnosed. Then they debate the nuances of their cruelty while their harmed suffer and die from iatrogenic disability and closed door institutions. Their dsm labels (insults) are medical DARVO, which fit the soft science’s soft excuses for legalizing widescale scapegoating. As one of the scapegoats, I earned my point of view: I oppose sadistic cruelty for profit. I oppose state-sanctioned violence and medical cover-ups. I deserve to live

    that shouldn’t put me at odds with an industry promising mental health, but here we are!

    I may even go so far as to say that I earned my criticism more than one the pros featured here

    To the author: I think you should dig a bit deeper to truly know why people criticize the mental health system. Ask those who survived the violence and not the professional violators. Only when a medically-coded b*tch like me or any of my fellow mad persons are granted an audience will we have genuine understanding and hopefully, some change.