Saturday, May 21, 2022

Comments by KateL

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  • I came to Western Mass from CT (where I’d been abused in the local hospital so many times and had had interactions with the police and neighbors that made me feel unsafe on a daily basis) because of the recovery learning Center/wildfloweralliance. It didn’t work out for me. I felt like a cautionary tale and maybe a nuisance/burden but not a peer. I don’t know how much of that was in my head (I don’t think all of it was) but it was devastating.

  • Yes, I’ve been advised many times to either refuse the screening or give false responses, but the idea of doing either scares me. Decades of experience have shown me that I’m not in charge in those situations, and making any attempt to be assertive has often ended very badly. Having lived with a diagnosis that is code for non-compliant, lying, drug seeking, hysterical, delusional patient and the impact that that has had on the way I’ve been treated in healthcare situations, I can’t even envision having healthcare that would meet my needs and not feel dangerous. The only reason I was going to go was because of a blood blister on my lip that I’ve had for over a year. But I decided today I’d rather continue to live with the deformity than face another interaction with the system that has done enormous damage to me already. I also know that, in the mind of my primary care provider, I have too long put off screenings. I haven’t had a mammogram or pap smear or colonoscopy in years. I know she’ll bring that up if and when I ever have an appointment with her again. The truth is that any screening would be pointless because if I did have a positive screening result, I would not seek treatment for it. But because I can’t say that, it’s another thing I need to lie about. The risk reward ratios are so far out of whack that unless I’m in an immediate life or death situation, I need to avoid these people like the plague. I’ve heard many other psych survivors say the same thing.

  • I just watched the Hulu show, Dropout, about Theranos, and the false claims by the people who ran the start up, including Elizabeth Holmes. One of the key moments in the show is the depiction of two lab assistants who have been asked to falsify data (asked, or told rather, to remove results that point to the inaccuracies of the testing mechanism as “outliers”).
    Elizabeth Holmes and her main co-conspirator have both been charged with fraud and are looking at possibly long prison sentences. But it seems that this type of thing is happening every day, in every lab, in every part of the industry. When will the people who run the psych drug trials be charged?

  • Yep. I probably would have realized that a lot sooner if not for the cognitive impairment (brain damage) I experienced and the fact that every single person I confided in about what had happened just said, “listen to your doctors”. The ECT wasn’t even the worst of the harm I experienced from this industry.

    This book by Insel just goes to show that these people can do anything they want and no one is going to stop them. They don’t need any studies showing ECT is effective. They’ll still get published. People still listen to them.

  • Nothing at all against Carrie Fisher, but I believe she died of a drug overdose. Does Dr insel see this as more proof of the effectiveness of ECT? I’ve been considered permanently disabled by the SSA ever since ECT treatments 15 years ago. I guess I’m another success story. Oh, wait, now I remember: the psychiatrist explained that the ECT didn’t work because, as it turns out, I have borderline personality disorder, not treatment resistant depression, which is what he believed I had when he recommended the ECT.
    I wonder if Dr Insel has read a very well written and well researched book called Doctors of Deception. It’s about ECT No footnote for Doctors of Deception?

  • Bradford,
    Exactly, and they keep widening their net to scoop up as many new patients/victims as possible. They’ve just added “prolonged grief disorder”, a brand new mental illness, to their DSM.
    When will society wake up? “Next, they came for the people they said were grieving to long,…”


    And now they’ve gone and done this — added “prolonged grief” to their mental illness Bible.
    When is society going to wake up and realize that these people are completely out of control, they’ve been given way too much power (which by too much I mean any power at all in these people’s hands is dangerous), and they won’t be satisfied until they’ve got the entire population categorized with some kind of mental illness or another or multiple.

  • Thanks, Steve. Obviously, it’s terrible for anyone to be diagnosed with a personality disorder (especially borderline), and particularly anyone who already is oppressed based on ethnicity or other cultural factors. But I worry that an article that talks about overdiagnosis has the effect of, ultimately, validating the diagnoses themselves.
    After all of the information that’s come out about how the DSM was compiled and how unscientific and biased every aspect of Psychiatry really is, it feels like it’s going backwards to speak about overdiagnosis of any so-called mental illness.

  • So, instead of saying that no one should be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, are we going to say that if a woman is white, middle class, and heteronormative, with no immediately obvious signs of being traumatized….well then, maybe it’s okay? If the person appears to have privilege and the psychiatrist, in the extremely small amount of time he spends with the patient, in which he learns next to nothing about her history, maybe she really is a borderline. Maybe with all of her privilege she’ll be able to withstand the abuse that comes her way from medical professionals and society in general while she tries to survive the devastating impact of being called “a borderline”?
    This is the third or fourth article I’ve read on this website that seems to argue that it’s not the diagnosis itself that’s the problem, but the problem is it’s being “over diagnosed” in a particular segment of the population.
    Seems to me like we’re going in the wrong direction.

  • Everyone is aware of the stigma and discrimination a person with a borderline personality disorder diagnosis faces in health care settings and in society in general.
    To be aware of it is one thing, but only those people who have experienced it directly understand what it’s like to be on the receiving end of it. I carried the diagnosis for 15 years before the system spit me out. It was pure hell.

  • At one point, about 3 or 4 years ago, I had a caseworker who supervised my medication regimen. She and my prescriber had agreed to lower my dose of Zoloft because I had been losing control of my bowels on a regular basis on the high dose that they had me on.
    So we had to get rid of some pills. My case worker came over to my apartment to oversee the disposal of the pills. She went through some weird process where she filled the prescription bottle, with the pills inside, with vinegar (if I remember correctly). Then she shook up the bottle and put it into a plastic bag, which she knotted and threw in the trash. As an aside, while she was doing this, she said “we used to just flush the pills down the toilet but apparently they were interfering with fishes’ reproductive systems.”
    I have no doubt that the water that fish and other creatures live in and that most of us end up drinking is filled with psych drugs and other pharmaceuticals. And I’m sure researchers know this, the same way they know how much covid is in wastewater. It’s an easy enough thing to test for. I would bet that the reason this is not front page news is the same reason that nothing we read on this website about the harm of psych drugs becomes front page news.

  • Thank you for sharing your story. I’m sorry for what you and your family went through, and the huge losses you suffered.
    I believe that personal stories like yours are the most important ( more do than observations and opinions of people working in the field, no matter how well intentioned) thing that will bring about change.

  • Also, the thing that made me feel psychiatry is useless and sometimes worse, after the ECT and the borderline diagnosis it was clear I’m sure to everyone around me (in fact people often said as much to me) that I was in dire need of basic services because I had severe cognitive deficits, short-term memory loss, and I lived alone and they were drugging me with so many different drugs that I couldn’t even keep straight. I didn’t have a nurse or a social worker or a case worker or a family member or a friend helping me with any of it. Just a lot of people sitting in judgment telling me that my coping skills were poor and I needed to work harder in DBT. For that I will never forgive psychiatry. To me that was the ultimate cruelty. If they had just left me alone I would have continued to be sad and angry and functional. They took away my ability to function knowing that I was completely alone in the world.

  • Hi, Christine,
    I appreciate your perspective. I do understand that people can at times suffer from debilitating mental states and at those times they need acknowledgement and support. Because of my own history with diagnosis and treatment, I’m biased in the other direction:. I have seen first hand the terrible effects treatment can have.
    I was the youngest of four siblings. Both of my brothers were diagnosed with and hospitalized for severe mental illness by age 20. My oldest brother was diagnosed with schizophrenia and put on Haldol and the like. Every intervention by the system seemed to make things worse for both Michael and the rest of the family. He escaped from more than one institution, and eventually left the state and wound up in Puerto Rico, where he spent the rest of his life. He didn’t want to be put on psych drugs. He was homeless off and on for the remainder of his life, but he was never institutionalized again.
    As I aged, I had my own terrible experiences with treatment. I’ve been disabled, physically ill and extremely isolated for many years. I blame the experiences I had in the mental health system for a lot of the pain I’ve experienced.
    I don’t know what the answer is. Just that what is happening now isn’t working.

  • “I am not saying there is no such thing as bipolar. When you take a position like this, people always criticize; it is not as extreme as people assume. As a therapist, you have to delve deeply enough to understand the context of what the client is bringing.”

    What if there is no such thing as bipolar? The DX has been around for quite a while, and now there are varieties, like bipolar 2, and rapid cycling bipolar (is there a bipolar 3 yet? Maybe the next DSM will give us that). Still:. No blood test. No MRI. Nothing definitive to say that this diagnosis even exists. The fact that people criticize as soon as someone suggests that there’s no such thing as bipolar disorder doesn’t make it any more real. I can say it all day and all night. There is no such thing as bipolar. There is no such thing as borderline. But I have nothing to lose (psychiatry took whatever I had).

  • I believe that a big component of the root of my problems was living in a home where, when I was 11, my eldest brother began to have psychotic episodes and was diagnosed with schizophrenia. That was an early lesson in hopelessness, fear, shame and a very powerful lesson that I was not okay. My brother was hospitalized and medicated multiple times as his situation and that of my family grew worse. It was terrifying. Some of the doctors blamed my parents for my brother’s condition but took no action in terms of the other children in the house. Then my other brother got sick and was hospitalized, with no positive outcome. By the time I reach my teens and became suicidally depressed my parents were completely checked out. My first suicide attempt, my stomach was pumped while my my mother told the ER doctor, she’s not depressed and there are no problems in the family. So the ER doctor ripped the tubes out of my nose and I was sent on my way. Not so much as a phone number to call. No conversation with a doctor.
    Decades later, when I was old enough to have my own insurance, I was told after electric shock treatments that I had borderline personality disorder. At that point my child was in his teens. Neither of us have recovered from anything that happened. Now I’m 55 and I feel like I’m in a nightmare.

  • Thank you for this article, and for pointing out that the stigma against people labelled as mentally ill originates from the professionals who hand out the labels. The stigma, marginalization, exclusion, and all-around not taking the labelled person seriously then spreads to family, friends, employers, neighbors, etc.
    It’s almost like a silent conversation is happening. “Psychiatry said this person is less than us and we don’t have to treat them with respect. Psychiatry is scientific so they must be right about this person. We now have license to treat this person however we want.”
    I’m exaggerating a bit but this is how I experienced what happened to me after I received a borderline personality disorder label. I don’t think any of it was in my head, although people for years tried to convince me that it was.
    They are putting on a conference, “focused on themes of disruptive behaviors, such as substance use, aggression, suicide, and self-harm, in borderline personality disorder.”
    I wonder if they will look at causes like forced drugging, forced treatment in general, being mocked by treatment providers, never being believed, being seen as bad/dangerous/threatening. Will they look at akathisia as a cause? Will they consider what it feels like to be told by a doctor you put your trust in, “you have borderline personality disorder. That’s why the ECT didn’t work.”
    Or will they ignore all of these causes of “disruptive behavior” and instead reinforce the notion that the behavior of “borderlines” is always enigmatic/never warranted?


    They’re so convinced they’re the good guys while they spread lies and stigma about vulnerable people. They don’t want to talk about their own behavior. The LIE of DBT certification, which means nothing. It means a fully certified DBT therapist can say things like:. I wouldn’t need consultation if it wasn’t for you and then she can collude with the psychiatrist to make the patient go impatient for an ECT consultation after the patient has explained in no uncertain terms that ECT is the thing that disabled her and afterwards that psychiatrist said, you have borderline personality disorder. That’s why the ECT didn’t work. They have no shame. They will keep spreading lies and destroying lives like they did to mine.

  • BPD DX at Yale following ECT was what they called help—drugging me, blaming me, lying to and about me. It destroyed my physical and mental health, killed by hope, and now this:

    They’re going to bring a bunch of experts together to study why borderlines engage in disruptive behavior.
    Like substance abuse, you know the thing that have the population does. But when borderlines do it let’s come together and and talk about it because it’s fascinating and we need to study it. I wonder if they’ll have a panel about disruptive behavior and response to abuse from treatment providers, and response to being labeled and poisoned based on lies.
    The whole society is insane that they allow these “experts” so much power.

  • I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. I can relate on a lot of levels. One would think that the fact that diagnosis in psychiatry is commonly just as arbitrary as you describe, that would serve as pretty irrefutable evidence that psychiatry is not science-based.
    I feel the same way reading Dr. Hickey’s articles. It’s that much-needed reminder, “no, you’re not crazy. It’s really like that.”

  • Yes, re: the borderline diagnosis. It’s a neat trick the system uses to shut people down when they try to defend themselves. I got painted with this diagnosis that announces to everyone that I am manipulative and that I will twist everything around to my benefit. I got the diagnosis right around the same time that books like “stop walking on eggshells” were all the rage. Looking back, it was the often treatment providers I encountered who twisted things and at times outright lied. No matter what the situation, they would frame it in a way that I was at fault and that I was somehow taking advantage of them and all of the help they were providing me. All my “friends” and family went along with whatever the treatment providers said, blaming me, because society is brainwashed.
    Experiencing the mental health system as a patient with that DX alienated me from people and made me fearful of the world in ways that I don’t know if I’ll ever recover from. I’ve spent the last 5 years as a agoraphobic often-bedridden hermit with almost no connection to the world.

  • I agree, Gina. Things are not even going in the right direction. I wound up calling us suicide hotline right around the beginning of covet, March 2020. I can’t remember why I called. I already knew better at that point. They had just put me through another trauma at the local hospital, kept where they kept me in the CIU for a day and talk to me like I was an alien, shot me up with something with four male security guards standing around and then made me walk home alone in the dark (knowing full well I just had surgery on a fractured ankle at the same Hospital).
    I made the call and immediately became furious with the operator telling me, “we’re here to make sure you get the help you need.”. I said, no you absolutely aren’t and hung up. Next thing I know there’s police banging on my door. I told them “I have the virus.”. That’s the only reason they didn’t haul me away again.
    Many of us who’ve survived terrible harm from the system then get punished by being isolated and cast out of society and told by people that we could change our lives if we just tried. That we are choosing to be alone. So much salt rubbed in a wound that never heals.

  • The efforts to find like minded people by moving to a new state that had a peer recovery Network also failed. It took all the energy I had left in me to move alone to a place where I didn’t know anyone during covid barely managed to get an apartment because 70% of my disability goes to rent. All to feel like a failure and an outcast once again. A cautionary tale. The middle-aged angry crying woman with the son who hates her. The one who sits at the drop-in center every minute that they’re open because she has nothing else. Maybe self-defeating or maybe just realizing it’s time to admit defeat rather than continue to bang my head against the wall like I’ve done all my life.

  • I agree, Lisa. My story is also a cautionary tale. All I can do is make comments on this website, the antipsychiatry sub Reddit, maybe someone who’s not in too deep yet will hear it but I know there is nothing left for me. My family has been gone a long time, my adult son disowned me, I’ve been disabled for 15 years because of psychiatry. I’ve been alone as long as I can remember and I just get sicker and weaker as the years go by. I lost everyone in my life. I was told the problem was my anger (how I responded to abuse), too often suicidal (how I expressed undiagnosed akathisia) and too hopeless (I don’t know who wouldn’t be) My last attempt at achieving some kind of feeling of safety or belonging was to move to Western Massachusetts for a peer recovery Network. I was an outcast and a burden there as well. I was told that I need to “hold space for people who feel that the medications help them”. I guess what did I expect. They are funded by the state. I just hope, if there is a higher power, they see that I’ve suffered long enough. I was never a saint but there’s no way in hell I deserved all of what happened.

  • I think the thing that keeps these arguments going is that with psychiatry, there’s “no there there”. There’s almost nothing that anyone can point to, whether a psychiatrist or other expert or lay person or patient/ victim, that is based in fact. I can talk about what happened to me and people can believe me or not but there’s no way for me to prove what the drugs did to my brain. Diagnoses, chemical imbalances, drug studies — there’s no solid ground anywhere. Like I can go on YouTube right now and listen to a psychiatrist explain the difference between borderline personality disorder and bipolar disorder, or the difference between bipolar 1 and bipolar 2, or the difference between borderline personality disorder and complex PTSD, but it doesn’t mean anything. It’s all made up. I got a borderline personality disorder diagnosis because I was poor and had low status and the doctor needed a way to blame me after my functioning fell apart after his ECT treatments. He needed to discredit me when I had tried to report his colleague to the APA after I found out he had not kept any records over 6 years of drugging me. Hence the borderline diagnosis. My sister on the other hand, paid a lot of money to go to a residential trauma facility where she received a complex PTSD diagnosis. I wish I had had enough money to pay for that diagnosis instead of the borderline Dx that has ruined my life and prevented me from getting desperately needed medical care for the past 15 years.

    I can read some pharmaceutical propaganda about how such and such drug is “believed to” correct such and such chemical imbalance that is “believed to” cause x or y mental illness, which is in itself a construct, but there’s no solid ground there either. “Believed to”…by who? Who believes it and for what reason do they believe it and can they share with the others the evidence that has led them to believe it?
    If it wasn’t for the fact that psychiatry and the mental health system have harmed so many, there would be no point in talking about it at all, in my opinion.

  • “Diagnosis offers a shared language for service users and providers, and it allows service users to name their suffering. It can also give service users access to specialized services and help determine what psychiatric interventions may work best to help alleviate their suffering.”

    If at any point in my life someone had asked me to name my suffering, at no point would I have named it borderline personality disorder.
    To me the name borderline personality disorder means, you’re not suffering, you’re a horrible person who’s making everyone else suffer.

    The specialized services I was given access to under that borderline name were not ones I would have chosen where I was told I just needed to learn coping skills and the past was irrelevant and my trauma didn’t matter and I needed to listen to my doctors and take the drugs.
    The service is I wanted I was routinely denied. First and foremost among those trauma therapy. I was discriminated against over and over and over again until I finally gave up. So now I have to live with the trauma of my childhood plus 35 years of trauma from being a mental patient who was abused by a system that is supposed to help.

  • Me too. I also have been told on multiple occasions that I’m “playing the victim” or “stuck in the past” when I try to recount to anyone my history…because I believe that if they heard it, really heard it and digested it, then they would understand my rage, fear and hopelessness. Instead they immediately try to deflect. I had an appointment with a new physician’s assistant, because I need someone to serve as a primary care provider in the event that I get an infection or something like that, and she started talking about trauma and ACE scores and all these other wonderful trauma-informed things. I told her I’m glad that things are changing and people are talking about trauma now, but that I was harmed many times in many ways for many years by the system when it didn’t acknowledge trauma at all and instead just drugged me and did ECT or whatever it did. She said “we’re not going to talk about that and do a coulda shoulda woulda about the past.”. Oh, very trauma informed. She also offered me Zoloft, which made me realize she hadn’t read my “new patient” forms or had read them but had forgotten what was on them.
    The sympathy that is offered feels like just another form of other-ing. Like saying, “I’m sorry that happened to you” while thinking, “that would never happen to me.”

  • I also had to rely for many years on doctors, therapists, whatever professionals I was seeing at the time when I got the letter from social security saying that my disability claim was under review. There were all kinds of forms to fill out and signatures that they wanted from so-called experts who would vouch for the fact that I was still severely mentally ill and unable to work. Oh this did wonders for my recovery I’ll tell you that. I felt so good about this whole situation. I hated those people. I hated the forms. I hated the whole stupid game but for my measly social security check to keep coming I had to participate. I had tried to go back to work on multiple occasions and failed probably because of all the trauma I experienced at the job that I tried to keep after the ECT where I was routinely humiliated by supervisors and colleagues, told that I was crazy. When the last social security letter came in saying that they needed to review my disability claim I was completely bedridden. I was in withdrawal from cymbalta, had a fractured ankle that didn’t heal right, and was afraid to leave my house, afraid of my neighbors, certainly afraid of doctors, hospitals and police. I scribbled something on the forms about my current situation and the fact that I was terrified of all psychiatrists and did not at that point have any kind of treatment. I mailed it in a few months later I got a response from social security where they said they decided they don’t need to review my claim at this time. That was a few years ago. Haven’t heard anything since. Just a lovely system we’ve got going here.
    It is a little bit hurtful at this point for someone to say oh if you have mental illness there’s nothing really wrong with you, you’re not disabled. Well what am I then? I’ve been defined by experts my whole life.

  • I agree, Rebel. It is almost as if, as soon as a person admits, “I need help,” they are ushered into a paradigm of professionals who have the power to define what kind of help it is that the person needs, along with when, how, and if that help will be administered. The help as defined by professionals might bear little or no resemblance to the help the person was seeking, but this never gets addressed. If the person is so bold as to speak up and say, “this is not the kind of help that I was seeking” or “this help is hurting me”, that can lead to very negative consequences, like being told they are ungrateful for the help that they have received, or that they are not able to recognize that the help that is being provided exactly is the help that they need, or that they are beyond help. This is a trap that I got caught in and was never able to extricate myself from. My focus went from seeking help (the help I was seeking from the start according to my definition) to surviving the help that was provided to me, at times with my consent, many times without it.
    The piece of propaganda that was popular in PSAs for a while, that went something like:. “don’t be afraid to ask for help. Help is available” made me realize how diabolically untrustworthy the system is.

  • “The effects of psychiatric drugs, ECT, and psychosurgery can be disabling. But they do not cause mental disorder or mental disability.”

    I think at this point there needs to be a category for people who have been disabled by psychiatric “interventions”. Prior to ECT, even though I had already experienced a great deal of harm from psychiatry, I was still able to maintain a full-time job. After ECT, and several other treatment induced harms including forced antipsychotics, I was no longer able to work. I was actually told by my employer after a year of them threatening to fire me that I should apply for disability (after being called into yet another meeting with my supervisor and human resources, where my failings were listed, where I was humiliated.) I think they saw, as frustrated as they were with me, that there was something wrong with me that I couldn’t control. They were right. I had brain damage. But I couldn’t apply for disability based on that. If I could have, I would have, but no doctor would even certify that I did in fact have brain damage from ECT and psychiatric drugging. I needed to not have to go to work and to still be able to pay my bills and the only way to do this was to apply as someone who had severe mental illness, in my case the diagnoses were borderline personality and treatment resistant depression. As far as social security and all the forms were concerned, I was a person who had severe mental illness and who had not responded to multiple treatments for said illness and so had to finally go on disability. That was not the truth of the situation. The ECT, the forced drugging and the treatment induced trauma is what prevented me from being able to continue to work to support myself. But there was no category for that. There was no one who – even if I were so bold as to make that claim – would back it up.
    It has taken 15 years since that ECT, 15 years of trauma shame isolation fear remorse illness terror humiliation, for me to finally realize that not being able to perform at work anymore was not my fault. It was the fault of the treatment and the people who decided that that was what I needed. There needs to be a category for people in my situation. A quick glance through this website will show any doubters that there are many many people who fall into this category.

  • I’ve had so many therapists and psychiatrists tell me in one way or another that I’m beyond help that I believe I should qualify for euthanasia. I can’t take care of myself due to extreme physical and mental disability, have no family, friend or emergency contact. Every one of those rejections by professionals should count as “points” toward being approved for euthanasia. If they are the experts and they say I am beyond help, shouldn’t they stand by their word? Instead when I suggested this to a DBT therapist after they told me I’d failed DBT, they said, I was being “provocative” and “what possessed you to say those things?”. I live every day alone in fear. I can barely dress myself. The system refuses to acknowledge people like me, let alone help.

  • Lisa, thank you so much for sharing your story. I can only imagine the strength it took and the precious energy you had to expend to put your experience down in words. I believe that what you’ve done here is immensely important. You have illustrated in such clear and precise language the tragedy of the systems that are in place. Tragic for the individual, for families and for society. Something has got to change.

  • They turn patients into outcasts when they diagnose them with a scary sounding “illnesses” like borderline personality, then tell the patients they need to “use their skills” to “build natural supports” when the patients would probably have had better luck finding and keeping friends if they had never become mental patients. Being in an IOP DBT program and being told I need to find someone to invite to Friends and Family night where they talk about how to support someone with borderline personality disorder is a prolonged exercise in futility and humiliation. Talk about reasons to feel hopeless.

  • I wanted to say thank you to Megan for authoring such a brilliant article. It opened my eyes, and the first time I read it, I felt such a rush of recognition and validation that I kind of got lost in my own memories. What you describe is so familiar and it helps me shed more of that shame that built up over the years, when everyone around me blamed me for not “getting better” while I was spending all my energy surviving the treatment.

  • Thank you. I suppose I don’t want anything except to be heard and believed. I come to this website, read about other people’s experiences which I often very closely relate to, I write my comments, which are often just me venting but also, if I write it somewhere public, and it’s there for people to see, then there’s a record of sorts, and a cautionary tale. I know I can come here and be heard, and not mocked or dismissed, and that, to me, is a big deal.
    I think I’d like to have a friend. Maybe two or three. And a pet. If and when I’m ready and I know I can manage the responsibility, I hope to get a cat or two. At the moment, I’m very physically weak and barely leave my apartment. I would need to be stronger.
    I would also like assurances that I’ll never be force medicated again or forced to undergo more ECT.

  • I found DBT therapy very invalidating. The therapists would validate me in small ways (like, “the hopelessness makes sense in this context”) but looking back I feel like they were feeding me Crumbs while I was starving. They didn’t know the context, they only knew what had happened from the time I started the program however many months before. Because at that time in DBT they said that the past was irrelevant, that treatment was about learning coping skills and moving forward. They said if you had trauma you don’t need to address the trauma in order to recover. The therapist directed the conversation. It was their agenda all the time. So I might get a little validation if the therapist that I was seeing (which was mandatory for me, to see an outside therapist, just any outside therapist, while I was in this program) said something rude to me, which happened on a regular basis, they would validate that but then told me that I needed to use my skills to either address it with the therapist or radically accept it and move on but I had to keep seeing that therapist who had been rude to me. I was instructed to give them the benefit of the doubt. They had no idea what my life had been like up until the point where I landed in the DBT program. They knew nothing about it. They never asked. They would ask a few clinical questions on my intake like how many suicide attempts have you had, when and what method did you use. But nothing beyond that. It was like a very concerted effort on their part to not look at me in terms of what had ever happened to me before. I got angrier and angrier as time went on and I experienced more abuse in treatment. Also no one ever acknowledged that the only reason I wound up with a borderline diagnosis and ndbt therapy was that I had had electroshock therapy for what they were calling treatment resistant depression. But after the ECT when my functioning went way downhill and I couldn’t work any longer, they said I had borderline and needed DBT. Of course none of that was addressed.
    I really wanted to get well. I wanted that more than anything. I wasted 15 years from the time of the ECT with this damn diagnosis that is an invitation for treatment providers to be callous and judgmental. I’ve had more than one treatment provider actually laugh at me to my face. I know the idea of life is to accept the past, learn from it and move on, but I’m completely stuck. Just biding my time and trying not to think about how bad things could get before I finally check out.

  • It’s hard, sometimes, not to hate society for buying into it. The overwhelming majority of people who I’ve tried to educate about the reality of psychiatry (often by sending MIA articles and explaining things til I’m out of breath) seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to deny what I’m saying, what people on this website are saying). If they knew what it was costing society – both the direct monetary cost and the harder-to-see cost of wasted potential – would it make a difference?
    I still get shocked reactions from people when they learn that although I’m on disability for psychiatric reasons, I don’t see a psychiatrist or take “medication”. So, I keep to myself now. The best way to protect myself is to not put myself in situations where I’m being questioned.
    It’s like, c’mon, people. Wake up. I guess they like the idea that there’s a field/profession that “deals with” people who make them uncomfortable. I don’t even consider myself a liberal anymore, because I think liberals are the worst in terms of giving Psychiatry a pass. The New York Times, the New Yorker, all the lovely work leftist people are A okay with the constant lies and abuse. I guess unless/until it happens to someone they care about.

  • I just wanted to clarify, in case it didn’t come across:. I don’t judge anyone for engaging in “drug seeking behavior”. I’ve engaged in it myself more than a few times.
    What I do judge is the hypocrisy and gatekeeping behavior of the people who run these fancy ketamine clinics who were quoted in the New Yorker article.
    There was another quote, from a person who had utilized the service (a patient? A client?). She lists some of the questions she was asked during the intake process. She says, “They just wanted to make sure I wasn’t crazy “. Right. I’m sure I would be turned away, even if I had the money and the inclination.

  • Now my life is reduced to getting through every day completely alone plagued by horrible memories, guilt shame, anger, and regret, and dread about what horrible thing will happen next. That’s all my life is. Horrible things. If I dare call a help line to hear a human voice I get bombarded with questions about have I seen a psychiatrist and why am I not on any medication?
    But yes psychiatrists are lovely people and their DSM book is perfectly innocent and any objection to it is childish…and actually probably proof of a mental disorder. Is there a diagnosis in the DSM for people who don’t believe in the DSM? I guess that would be anosognosia. It’s all perfectly innocent and meant to help. Just ask NAMI.

  • I read the New Yorker article about how ketamine is going mainstream. The people who run the ketamine clinics, where it can easily cost $1,000 out of pocket to get dosed and then maybe have a bit of talk therapy, work very clear about how they’re being super responsible about all of this. They make sure to weed out anyone “who exhibits drug seeking behavior”.
    Um. I’m pretty sure that anyone seeking treatment at a ketamine clinic is, by seeking treatment at a ketamine clinic, exhibiting drug seeking behavior. But what do I know. I’m not a professional.

  • That’s how brilliant these doctors are, they could be 100% certain that my brother had schizophrenia and would need to be drugged with antipsychotics for the remainder of his life which is why he escaped to Puerto Rico and I never saw him again and they could be equally certain that I was just a spoiled brat (a suicidal wreck all through my teens) without knowing anything. And all their little interventions like accusing my mother of being an icebox mother only because it was in vogue at the time, not that they were going to actually do anything about it or the children still living in the house beyond sit the three of us down in an office at Yale psych ward and grill us about what our home life was like, terrifying us. Every time they get involved they make it worse.

  • It’s high time, what with the UN talking about mental health treatment constituting torture, for some truth and reconciliation, for reparations to the people who were harmed…not only patients but families of patients, children of patients. Every study showing the reality of psychiatric drugs, every tragic personal narrative, every half-admission by a psychiatrist or apologist for the mental health system adds to the weight of what patients have been saying for decades, that these systems are harmful and patients have no power to defend themselves against the harm. The answer to the question, what is going to be done in response to this mountain of evidence, seems to be, nothing. It’s great that these studies and stories have all come out because it serves as a warning to people before they get involved with this profession of what could happen to them. So, if they retain their power of choice they can stay away. But for the people where the harm has already been done there is not much for them beyond screaming into a void. To this day there is almost no doctor who knows about akathesia let alone will believe a patient or have any idea how to treat it or any of the other harms. To this day people who have been patients, who have been committed or institutionalized in the past, know that their first and probably only priority is to protect themselves from it ever happening again which means they can’t trust people. They can’t be honest about what they are going through. It doesn’t seem like anything will change as long as Pfizer and friends are underwriting all the news.

  • I passed it on to my son, who cut me out of his life (he had every reason to). Yeah the mental health system guarantees that the trauma will increase exponentially from one generation to the next. I got no help for 20 years and then I found out I had borderline when my son was a teenager, or so they said, and then I found a book in a bookstore about how the child of a borderline parent is the most tragic thing. They just took everything that was already completely horrible and made in a million times worse. And even when they try to act like they want to change things they’ll post an article like oh well you might have cptsd if you had a borderline parent. Like okay just euthanize me it’s all lost. When I was young enough for help to make a difference I got no help and got told I was a spoiled brat looking for attention (even by their rules this was bs. I had two older siblings who had already had multiple hospitalizations each for what they diagnosed as severe mental illness). Yeah an intensely chronically suicidal teenager is just looking for attention. And then 20 years later when my son is a teenager they do ECT on me for what they say is treatment resistant depression because I haven’t responded to years and years of drugging and then they tell me I’m borderline. It’s all a disaster. My family is all dead or estranged. No one in the family speaks to anyone else. It’s all lost.

  • I think this is a sign for me to get off this website for a while anyway. All I’m doing is torturing myself reading article after article after article confirming what I suspected for decades but every time I voiced it people told me I was paranoid stupid crazy etc. The psychiatrists and other so-called helping people had no idea what they were talking about. It was all made up. It was all made to shame me and poison me with drugs that weren’t safe or effective drugs I never needed and that were forced on me like everything else was forced on me. It’s great to know the truth and hear a psychiatrist say oh yeah we made up the DSM haha. It’s pretty funny. But there’s no sense reminding myself over and over again on a daily basis about what destroyed my life behind any hope of repair.

  • Also if they were going to diagnose me with anything it should have been done when I was a teenager and begging for help and was denied help at every turn because they decided that I was just a spoiled brat looking for attention. It wasn’t till 10 years later when I was a single parent working full time and had my own health insurance that suddenly I was “severely mentally ill.” They have set everything up so that they’re right no matter how horribly they treat a person.

  • As someone who was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder at a particularly weak and vulnerable point in my life, following 6 years of psychiatric drugging and ECT, I don’t believe that this diagnosis or perhaps any psychiatric diagnosis found in the DSM was intended to help. I wasn’t told what it meant that I had this thing called borderline personality disorder which I had never heard of before. I went and looked it up online and read about Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction. I read about how borderlines are scary, dangerous, manipulative, but often “hot” and good in bed, that they’ll ruin your life. That they can be superficially charming but it’s part of their manipulative nature. I read that it is considered untreatable, something wrong with the person rather than something the person is suffering from. If someone had been trying to drain or suck all the hope out of me in an instant, diagnosing me with borderline would have been a pretty effective way to do it. I read that borderlines are often stalkers and that they utilize psychiatric services including inpatient services more so than any other diagnosis and yet they never get well. I read that they are the most unruly, challenging, innervating patients on the ward and that they do something called splitting, which means they drive the staff crazy and make this staff argue with each other and the staff all hate them. I read that they are famous for dropping out of treatment and that they think everyone else is the problem when in fact they are the problem. I read that they are liars. That they are the most non-compliant patients. At some point, I learned that there are actually four subtypes of borderline. However I was never told which one I was:. Discouraged? Petulant? Impulsive? And a fourth that I can’t remember but that is equally denigrating. I read that really not a lot is understood about borderlines except that they are bad and that treatment providers would do well to avoid them at all costs. I read that the word borderline refers to the borderline between neurosis and psychosis, whatever that means. I read that there is no medication to treat borderline, and the best route for psychiatrists is to prescribe drugs to treat the symptoms which is how I wound up on a ridiculous amount of drugs for the 15 years that I accepted the diagnosis. I have been turned away mocked humiliated laughed at so many times in treatment settings. And yes I was non-compliant and I did have a lot of anger which seemed inappropriate to everyone but me considering the way I was being treated.
    Right now there is a YouTube video up by someone named Dr Grande in which he discusses the difference between borderline personality and complex PTSD. Since none of this is scientific and it is basically all made up, what it comes down to is borderlines are bad and unworthy of compassion and people with complex PTSD are good and hurt and worthy of compassion. I didn’t watch the video but I already know that’s the gist of it. What else could it be? Is he going to show us the lab tests that differentiate between borderline and cptsd? The MRIS? The CAT scans? Is he going to go back in time and observe the childhood experiences of different people and then dub them borderline or sufferers of complex PTSD?
    The diagnosis did so much damage to me and to my life. When I called my mother to tell her that the psychiatrist explained to me that I had borderline and that’s why the ECT didn’t work, she had never heard of it either so she said she was going to go online and read about it. She called me back a half hour later and told me that she couldn’t have me in her life any longer.
    My final attempt to get help from psychiatry was when I made an appointment with someone who referred to himself as a holistic psychiatrist. He had his assistant call me the day before the appointment to cancel it, stating “he’s not taking any more borderline”.
    I will always have a problem with the DSM.

  • No words from the authors to address the patients who were silenced and mocked for decades when they said and showed how much harm the prescribed drugs were doing to them? The patients who were punished for trying to advocate for themselves with even scarier diagnoses like borderline personality disorder and mocking remarks like, “at some point you’re just going to need a complete personality makeover” and “I don’t know Kate, maybe you just really get to people”? No apology?

  • “…can you help people not feel like they’re crazy? Can you help people feel like there’s nothing wrong with them, like they’re not bad, deficient human beings?”

    …or at least not do the opposite of that, which is what was done to me. The message I received over and over again from psychiatrists and other “helping” professionals was that I was just a bad person. Just defective. “You have borderline personality disorder. That’s why the ECT didn’t work.”. Just one example.
    There were so many horrible things said to me over the decades by psychiatrists and psychologists and social workers and nurses. (And in some way they all confirmed the horrible things I had been taught about myself as a child.) They live in my head to this day.

  • This psychiatrist sounds like a nice man and I very much would have appreciated encountering a treatment provider who shared his philosophy, particularly about the importance of listening to a person talk about their trauma, and then not expecting that, once the person has been heard, they will immediately be “fixed”.

    As someone who has suffered under the current regime of, say, “fast psychiatry”, where I’ve been drugged, labeled, my experience denied and discounted… basically hurt in all kinds of ways by people who profess to help…I wonder if there is a way back for psychiatry. It seems to me that the first step would be to admit all of the harm that has been done to people and families, all of the lies that have been told about the effectiveness and safety of “medication”, the fiction that is the DSM, the abuse in psychiatric hospitals that continues to this day. But psychiatry as a field, and the mental health system in general, seems to want to shrug off the past and minimize all the harm that’s been done and so there is no future for the field. The best thing that can happen, the only thing that will protect people in the future, is for the profession and the system to be stripped of power. A psychiatrist is a person who literally has the power to destroy someone’s life. No one should have that kind of power, but particularly in a field so rife with harm.

  • I agree. That is the problem with these so-called admissions by psychiatrists and other pro-psychiatry mouthpieces. They of course are not going to admit the extent of evil greed obfuscation power games etc that is what’s really going on in the entire field and what patients are subjected to. They will say things like, oh we were trying to help and of course we were 100% with good intentions so how could anyone fault us that we made a bit of a mistake in wanting our patients to only feel better? It’s absolute rubbish. They are still lying and they will continue to lie. There is no credibility for this field ever. They want to maintain credibility? Well if I was a person who had driven under the influence a dozen times resulting in all sorts of accidents and personal injuries to others I don’t think I’d be so filled with hubris as to claim that I need to make sure I maintain credibility as a driver. It’s disgusting.

  • This line stuck out for me:

    “The dangerous assumption that keeps harming patients is that what makes them feel better is also what keeps them well.”

    The unstated assumption here is that doctor/prescribers are interested in making patients feel better. That is not always the case. Oftentimes it is the wish of the prescriber to control the patient. As an example I was prescribed antipsychotics for years after I received a borderline personality diagnosis after my condition deteriorated following ECT treatments, which I now wonder if the borderline diagnosis was part of a plan to silence and discredit me because the psychiatrist who referred me to the doctor who performed the ECT treatments had been drugging me for 6 years and had not kept any records. I had tried reporting him to the American Psychiatric Association, but they wouldn’t take my complaint. After that it was multiple ECT treatments that wound up disabling me, along with the borderline diagnosis.
    Sometimes making the patient feel better is the furthest thing from the doctor’s mind. I was prescribed abilify, risperdal, Geodon, Seroquel, Latuda and many more from this class. I was not psychotic. I was angry and I was vocal about why I was angry. It was not about making me feel better.

    If doctors and others who prescribe or force medicate had only the patient feeling better as a goal, things would not be in the complete and utter mess they are.

  • Great article. Thank you.

    While reading, I was reminded of a few experiences I had on tik tok (before I realized tik tok is not the place for middle aged white women who are psychiatric survivors and hold antipsychiatry views). There is a trend of putting up videos of abandoned places. Abandoned psychiatric hospitals seem to hold special cache. The person making and posting the video talks with reverence about respecting the ground where so many people suffered and died. And without a doubt there will be several comments along the lines of, “I can feel the pain and suffering there. I am an empath. I can feel it through the screen. The souls of the former inmates are communicating to me through my phone screen.”
    And there will be a handful of, “at least things are different now, not like back in the old days with these asylums that were so abusive. Look how far we’ve come!”
    And then I would pipe up and try to say something like, it’s not that different now. People and psychiatric hospitals are still treated badly, exploited, isolated, drained of Hope. And then they become outcasts among their friends and family and neighbors who are all aware that they were taken away in an ambulance by the police.
    Mostly my comments were ignored. I think I was taking away from the fun of it. Because even though the people who lived in those abandoned asylums are dead, their lives are still serving as a kind of entertainment for the masses — now it’s Tik Tok users instead. But it’s not entertaining when someone points out that the mental health system is really no different from what it ever was, that we have not advanced as a society as far as how we treat those who are suffering.

  • Yes, that line really made my blood boil. I’ve heard people parrot that notion… that psychiatry can’t be held accountable because it’s so young!!! “Give us time, we are still learning.” Oh but they didn’t say that to the patients they diagnosed and told that they would need to take toxic drugs for the rest of their lives. The psychiatrists have supreme confidence when they tell their patients how pathological they are and how severe their mental illness is and how they’re so mentally ill that they don’t even realize how much they need the “medication.”
    But oh you’re still learning so we can’t hold you accountable for all the harm?
    I remember the media blast in the ’90s when Prozac and the atypical antipsychotics came out. Blasting on the covers of the weekly national news magazines that they had cured mental illness! They discovered that its all down to a chemical imbalance and as long as people take these safe and effective new drugs, these miracle drugs, as directed by their doctors, all will be golden. And now when all the people who were victimized by that lie (and the other lies up to present day) are still suffering, the psychiatrists complain that they are just now learning. Boo Hoo.

  • Once I got the borderline diagnosis then I got pushed into DBT. A new group of people who pretended to play good cop and act it all compassionate and like they had all the answers. They were just as bad as the psychiatrists it turned out. They lied to me and shamed me. They make a big deal about their evidence-based protocols and their gold standard blah blah and they don’t follow any of it and then blame the patient. They sent me to one fully certified DBT therapist who didn’t think she needed to follow DBT protocol about being on a consultation team. When I brought it up one day she told me that she wouldn’t need consultation if it wasn’t for me. She was verbally abusive and gaslighting and she worked with a psychiatrist to push me into another inpatient stay for what they called an ECT consultation after I explained to them that I’d already had ECT and it had disabled me and the doctor had told me it didn’t work because I was borderline. But they made me go anyway and it was only by luck that I didn’t have multiple additional ECT treatments on top of all the other damage they had already done. DBT treatment is just as damaging and traumatic as psychiatric treatment. It is all based on lies and the treatment providers have a constant scapegoat in the patient. They have all the power and they are all corrupt. Marsha linehan who invented DBT makes a big deal about adherence to protocol and evidence-based treatment but if a patient tries to report a DBT therapist for breaking protocol, none of them care. No one will listen. They just laugh it off. They already made their money because they get paid by the therapist who want the certification, they get paid for other stupid little workbooks that they publish. Marcia linehan is a millionaire I’m sure of it. I don’t think she cares about patients at all. The whole thing is corrupt and evil and it destroyed my life.

  • Rebel, I had a very similar experience. It went on for decades. To realize so clearly, after a lifetime of looking to these people as “experts” — and every time I questioned them or their decisions I would get pathologized even more and everyone around me bought into it so it was impossible to escape, and then see an article like this one, where this guy Kendler admits they’ve been making it all up all this time and yet still talks about “we must commit to the reality of mental illness”… To realize that these are the people who have been calling the shots the whole time. I should have trusted my gut. In DBT they told us to trust our gut, our “wise mind”, our intuition but every time I did they told me I was wrong. They made me put a line on my diary card under problem behaviors for “arguing with treatment providers”. I had to write down what my urge to argue was every day on a scale of 1 to 10 and I had to put a star beside it if I had actually argued with any of their b*******.

  • Thank you. At least I know I can always find validation here. I guess it’s the kind of thing where if someone hasn’t experienced it, they can’t comprehend it. I try to believe that people are just ill-informed, but that gets hard because I have spent the past several years putting so much energy into explaining to people and educating people about what’s really going on in the system with the drugs and the diagnosis etc. And I have found out firsthand that most people just don’t want to know. Sometimes they just pathologize me even more, tell me I’m being paranoid etc.
    It seems like there are a lot of families that find benefit in scapegoating one member and when the mental health system is also pointing to that person and saying that there’s something wrong with them, if the family benefits from that it’s almost impossible to fight back. When you’ve been drugged and abused as many patients have, fighting two powerful systems at once is impossible. I’m starting to think that’s how they really get a lot of people…the people who get bounced between abusive systems and abusive families. The system gives the family ammunition by saying oh look this person is mentally ill and it’s not the family’s fault. The family gives the system ammunition by ceding control and pushing them into more and more abusive treatment.
    Thank you for caring and for believing me. If not for this website I would literally not be able to find that validation anywhere.

  • Dear Lisa, thank you for honoring your friend and sharing her story. It’s truly heartbreaking. I’m very sorry for your loss. Like Kathleen, I have also lost my faith in God, but will still pray and hope that she has found rest, peace. She is right that there have been people before her and will be people after her. Each and every loss is completely tragic. You have done a huge service by sharing her story, and Kathleen did a huge service by writing what she did. I wish I could have known her.
    Again, my condolences on your loss.

  • Thanks, Steve. I guess I’ve known the truth for a while now. It just sucks that knowing hasn’t done me any good. In fact knowing has probably created more problems and then I go around trying to convince people and lost whatever human contact I had before, when I was still playing the scapegoat, the untreatably mentally ill, the one who had all the help but just couldn’t get it right. I guess I should be glad to know the truth about people who cut me out of their life when I stopped playing that role for them. The loss is enormous. I was a single mother. I went for treatment, and kept getting more and more treatment, because I thought if I got help I would be a better parent. The opposite happened. My adult son cut me out of his life many years ago. Meanwhile these “drs” go on with their oblivious lives and spew garbage with their theories and opinions. They make good money ruining lives. Most of them probably have families and are considered good upstanding people. Meanwhile I’m looked at and treated like an old loser failure addict crazy person. It’s a lot to take. And I don’t see anything changing. Mainstream media complains that there are not enough psychiatrists, that not enough people are getting the mental health treatment they need. They finally caught on and started reporting about big pharma and its role in the opiate epidemic but still have blinders on about the psych drugs, psychiatry etc. I read someone else say they were angry at themselves for trusting doctors and treatment providers. I’m mad at myself too. I just kept going back over and over again for a decades. It didn’t help that everyone around me was pushing me in that direction. I found an old email from a so-called friend who was telling me to go back and admit myself again to the psych ward but this time I need to make them see the depressed part of me and not the borderline part (in other words it was my job to say the magic words so that they wouldn’t abuse me again at the hospital). And now I know that during that time I was suffering from academia but of course back then I had never heard of it. It was all “you must not be taking your medication as directed and you must not be using your coping skills and listening to your treatment providers”.. Sorry for the rant.

  • Wait…does this mean that the esteemed psychiatrist who told me, “You have borderline personality disorder. That’s why the ECT didn’t work?” was actually maybe not basing anything he said or did on science, or, reality? I wish I knew all of this 40 years ago. Knowing it now is just feeling another twist of the knife. I need to hide alone in my apartment for the rest of my life because it turns out, no one believes me and no one cares.

  • Agreed.
    When the people working in the system have proposals for how to address the massive iatrogenic harm that has been inflicted on people who became patients, voluntarily or involuntarily, then I may begin to believe any of this is about helping people. Until then, no. I know how I live and I know how on my own I am with everything because the powers that be, the people who run the system, continue to bury the truth of how much harm has been done to patients. Yes, I will need disability for the rest of my life because of what’s been done to me. I don’t need a change in perspective or a change in belief or to be told I’m perfectly able. I know I’m not anymore. I have trouble walking. I have trouble with so so many things. I need acknowledgment of what has been done to me and help getting through the remainder of my life, help that I’m sure will never come.

  • I tried to explain to the psychiatrist who is upping all my medication at that point because of my so-called treatment resistant whatever and because of the DBT therapist, who was not even following DBT protocol, bringing me into his office and screaming at him to do something! I explained to him what was going on on in my family and that what I was experiencing was not depression or a mental disorder but grief. All he said was, don’t they tell you and DBT to radically accept it and just move on? At that point after 10 years of electric shock blame treatment induced trauma toxic drugging all the while my family and so-called friends cheering on the helping people and pushing me to subject myself to even more abuse I was so broken down I didn’t even have the wherewithal to call him an idiot and walk out.

  • My treatment providers — a DBT therapist and a psychiatrist — responded to my grieving multiple losses including the impending death of an immediate family member and my estrangement from two other immediate family members by trying to force me into more electro shock therapy which is the thing that had disabled me 10 years prior. These are not good people or responsible people and they should not be allowed to make determinations about what is good for somebody or whether somebody does or does not have a disorder when that person is grieving. They should have the decency to admit they know nothing instead of heaping blame on the person who is grieving and trying to force them into more brain damage and treatments.
    If there is a greater incidence of the “mental disorder” called grieving following the pandemic, then grieving is not in fact a mental disorder.

  • I stopped reading at the BS about parents with so-called cluster b personalities. Where do you think those personalities came from? When you spend paragraphs talking about children who experience trauma growing up to have personality problems because the abuse they experienced was while their personality was forming. It makes me sick. Do you think maybe the cluster b personalities have C PTSD too and there is literally nowhere to get help for it and in fact in many cases such as mine I was just abused more when I tried to get help for it abused terribly by the helping people and the helping systems with brain shocks and forced toxic drugs and borderline diagnoses no one ever diagnosed me with complex PTSD I can tell you that. No one ever acknowledge the trauma I had gone through. You’re not helping anything or anyone this is idiocy. It’s this type of thinking that guarantees intergenerational trauma will continue and will only get worse.