Tuesday, March 2, 2021

Comments by barrab

Showing 214 of 214 comments.

  • Does seem crazy how little psychiatrists seem to really know. Take this “visual snow” stuff. People have only recently been talking about it but it’s supposed to be an indicator for anxiety and depression. A study suggests it might be a part of the brain “hyper metabolising”.

    Something i’ve had for as long as I can remember /shrug.

  • I agree that this is really where it’s at and probably what gets overlooked even though psychiatrists are doctors.

    It’s disappointing these days, in Australia i’ve been trying not get get too upset over this “mental as” campaign they’ve had going.

    I get the feeling sometimes that they are honestly trying to deride looking after yourself, exercising, living healthy etc. Seems like this is seen as “wanting to live forever young” or something.

  • Just to add, the one after this is the “kindling” theory. i.e if you don’t take your drugs, you’ll have more episodes, your “illness” will progress, your iq will go down etc.

    From my experience professionals are less likely to try and scare people with that one, but it’s still there and no doubt being used by “professionals” to get people to regularly take drugs.

  • Heh, well it’s funny because this still goes on regardless of this Pies character. There’s no doubt in my mind that there’s thousands of people in the world that are still being told to take drugs because they have a medical condition, that “it’s just like insulin for diabetes” etc.

    You think these higher ups are really interested in correcting any of this ? It’s a primary method to sell, or to get people to go along willingly with regularly taking health-damaging drugs.

  • Thank you — a false but disconcertingly effective argument against the movement has always been to guilt-trip people over not having “alternatives.” The alternative is ending capitalism and the ongoing trauma and alienation it causes.

    I don’t want to derail whatever goes on with this site sometimes but I feel like this always seems to creep in. I feel like i’m doing the derailing but really, it feels like i’m trying to keep the damn thing on the rails. There’s people trying to make it about feminism, race, capitalism, global warming.

    Psychiatry can fuck over anyone that gets caught up in it.

    You mention capitalism but psychiatric style oppression kicked along just fine in Soviet Russia… it went gang busters. Any system is really going to be as good as the people running it. Maybe the left wing academic type people feel they’re going to be on the good side of all this, like they will benefit but the death of one system isn’t some guarantee things will be better for everyone, in fact, more people might end up getting screwed.

  • Just to add it’s funny but I see social media as basically just infants or high school in perpetuity. It’s all just about being seen to be socially acceptable and when there’s big money there it’s really hard to go against that without an angry, dumb mob coming at you or the shunning to commence.

  • Ehh don’t be so sure of who you are dealing with on the internet.


    That said though, yeah it’s a tough issue, i’m not sure what you’re talking about exactly but I do feel sorry for people that get manipulated with this stuff.

    Look at what happened with “Anonymous” and Scientology. Do some of those poor kids even know why they were firing up those ping flooding programs ? /shrug yeah I know I know. Bah.

  • I don’t know how to change this. But it has to change, because without a mass movement, the forces that will be necessary to end psychiatric oppression just aren’t there.

    Well these days there’s the internet. I enjoyed watching the video of you standing outside a conference inferring psychiatrists are sociopaths and it would be great if everyone thought that way but yeah they don’t.

    This site is great, there’s tonnes of real information here and so people can make their own individual choice. That is the most important thing imho, people being able to make their own choice.

    This is also tied into a whole sort-of level of deceit/paradigm change and the system clamping down. It’s a weird time, lot of lies exposed, system doubling down on those lies.

  • Just to add on the intervention thing. See what we have here in Australia where they bring up cyber bullying.

    The media always focuses on the bullies rather they brining up the idea that maybe it would be a good idea to educate kids on the dangers of getting sucked into social media and to learn to shake it off instead of letting a few lines of text be a reason to end their life.

  • When you say “We”, who are you referring to ? It’s ok to speak for yourself.

    it is becoming more and more out of reach for a lot of people because of outrages cost for treatment.

    I honestly believe beyond treating someone for acute trauma there isn’t really a whole lot going on with psychiatry, with most of the drugs prescribed. In my experience anyway. Every single drug prescribed by a psychiatrist is damaging to a person’s health in some way, not beneficial. Therefore it is smart to avoid them if you can. It’s really that simple.

    that want to claim mental illness is not real at all, in any shape or form

    Well as far as I’m aware there still isn’t any definitive proof that there are permanent discrete diseases. I think that people do have problems coping, I do sometimes myself but I also believe that there’s more to human health than what is projected by western medicine. Things change every day as to what is supposed to be good for us or not. There are people taking all kinds of medication they probably don’t have to if they changed their diet etc etc.

    These interest cherry pick what many like you post here Dr. Burstow to support cuts for care

    please be careful in not helping to cut our throats, the mental ill, as you do it who are struggling day in and day out to gain care and treatment for our mental illness in our communities around the world.

    Kinda looks like you’re the one that might be cherry picking but yeah I do believe that if treatment is ultimately useless that it’s pointless to fund it. If it’s keeping some Ph.D in a job I don’t care about that.

    Really it depends what we’re talking about. Are we talking about “early intervention” or a homeless “schizophrenic” talking to himself as he walks down the CBD ?

    With the early intervention, I think we should have education given teaching kids basic skills on how to deal with anxiety/fear/stress but I don’t believe they should have negative labels slapped on them and be given a tray full of poison.

    For other stuff, I wonder what the point is in just lobbing antipsychotics at someone, maybe it will calm someone down but does that treat what might be an underlying problem ? Bad diet, deficiency ?

    Anyway, i’ve rambled enough.

  • Who decides what is “mental illness”, you ? Someone else ? As much as I would like to believe sometimes that all these scientists experimenting doesn’t mean anything and it’s all bunk and all you need is some guru to work their talk juju on you, the real problem as I see it are ethical, trust based ones.

    Really it’s all the same crap and typically can boil down to the best course of action to not see a psychologist or psychiatrist at all or engage with what any of these patronising “services”.

    How does it all work ? In what way is psychiatry well meaning ? Well only perhaps is that the ultimate goal appears to be that you stop struggling while you enable their livelyhoods, take the negative label(s) and then either have your independant thought,health or both destroyed.

  • Honestly it is kind of dumb, here in Australia we’re having days 5 degrees below the average etc.

    While the moronic corrupt president of the AMA (Australia Medical Association) is talking about how global warming is a health issue.

    I don’t know, kind of over it, but all I know is if I had any kind of say in the matter there’s no way I would just be handing money to a bunch of people that are only interested in setting up some kind of authoritarian nightmare global government.

  • I dunno it seems like it’s getting pointless to argue on this stuff.

    What is meant by poltical will ? A tax on all countries that goes towards global government ?

    This is a typical kind of authoritarion left advocacy. Do any of them really care about the environment ? Or just more power for your Rockerfeller’s, Al Gores, Rothchilds etc. If anyone wants to really talk about this stuff fine, but if you just want a rubber stamp you’re probably always going to run into opposition, as you should.

  • Like I said in the previous article on this subject, I still find it hard to tell if lithium isn’t benefical to the human body as a mineral.

    I know there have been tests on worms and it’s increased their lifespan for instance.


    ETC. From what i’ve read some say it’s neuroprotective or increases grey matter, some say it just increases water content or something.

    Either way, from what I see, yep it does seem pretty stupid to take a whopping dose of lithium carbonate. More data on it though would be good to find.

  • To add, something a little more down to earth is the fact that many of the drugs that were perscribed back when I was intimately familiar with the shortcomings of psychiatry are now off patent.

    I didn’t realise things like Zyprexa are now off patent. Remeron etc etc.

    It’s easy to see how once anyone can make these drugs the purely money making corrupting influence is greatly lessened. Drug company’s are obviously going to be less incentivised to pervert the system in their favor if someone might just buy the clone instead.

  • I think that it comes down to how things go from the top. What the elite decide to do and how much they can get away with.

    I think that it’s not just psychiatry treatments that are in trouble, western medicine as a whole is starting to develop a credibility problem because of pharmaceuticals.

    We also have science progressing to the point where maybe people start living a lot longer ? And if that’s too many people ?

  • Seems like rose colored glasses in a way. I’m not saying therapy can’t help anyone but you appear to be saying that focusing on a person’s health can’t help the mind either, that no issue might be a health issue which seems kinda ridiculous.

    Have any of these professions ever had a good reputation ? Who isn’t really a nutcase ? Freud, Jung, Skinner,etc etc.

    When hasn’t there been nutcase psychiatrists engaging in some kind of eugenics ? Wandering around the country performing labotomies or shocking people ? “Deep sleep therapy” and so on and so on.

    Has psychiatry ever really been a noble profession ?

  • I watched a documentary about Britan and it basically concured with what you’re saying here. It shows a lot of brits basically getting by with freelance work only.

    The main thing that kinda itches me over what you say, that this is due to the adoption of an ideology rather than some other reflection. Why are all these countries in debt ?

    It seems like there’s going to be problems with any ideology if everyone is in debt and if countries turn to communism to pay off their debt there will be problems with that too.

  • So in reality the pragmatic value of CBT as a therapeutic method (in the short run) can be achieved without any type of moral compass or historical barometer to determine if the end result actually advances the cause of humanity, or if it only meets the immediate selfish needs of its user in the moment. In other words, we need to ask the important question: for whom is the CBT method being used, and for what purpose?”

    This is one of the reasons I wouldn’t bother with a psychologist again. It’s not up to the preson you’re paying to decide whether or not they’ll help you or not. You pay them, they help you.

    For example: “oh I won’t teach this person x or y until they decide to get a job at a fast food restaurant, take their drugs, marry a single mother” etc etc. Not the psychologist’s place, when does it just become brainwashing ? When you say “short term” it seems like you might be making a judgement call that really is showing arrogance.

  • There’s plenty of “madness” but I’m not seeing any science. Only grandiose delusions.

    Interesting that you suddenly turn up, smatter years old articles and this one regarding ADHD with brief/one line personal attack quips in less than 10 minutes.

    You can’t expect anyone that uses this site to take you seriously if you’re just going to do this. There’s no way this site is an “echo chamber” or “hugbox”, i’ve never seen them censor anything.

  • Heaven forbid parents research and make decisions themsevles when it comes to vaccines, no you’re a kook if you think that’s the best route. The best route is clearly just forcing injections regardless of what the parents think, I mean duh ! You don’t want to be seen as one of them kooks !

  • Maybe what you are saying is true but doesn’t this also become an excuse for bad… evil behaviour ?

    I mean broken down the practicioner is essentially saying “it’s ok that I messed this person over because it made them stronger, so it’s good and i’m good”

    I personally have a real problem with this kind of thinking. Maybe adversity can be good for a person… maybe life isn’t fair but if you’re setting out to prove it … how can you really know it’s the right thing to be doing and how are other people not supposed to assume you’re just a bad person ?

  • It’s a vicious cycle right ? Person gets the diagnosis, gets the stigma, needs welfare to live so then defends the diagnosis.

    When it comes to autism, I know there is a movement with it for plain acceptance but if it’s an actual known neurological disorder… I mean it is what it is. Sorry to be blunt but if someone has brain damage or a neurological disorder and society can’t find a job for them then you can get as creative as you like with labels but the actual situation stays the same.

    Though ironically the person you quote there in my mind is displaying enough acumen with communication that I would question if they really were debilitated to the point that they couldn’t work in some useful capacity.

  • Casual use of a search engine leads to plenty of sources that say the stimulants perscribed for ADHD can cause problems with the heart.

    Also I guess it might be convienient to focus specifically on mortality because then you don’t have to address the other thing that jumps out and that’s the impact on growth, which would be a pretty important side effect for kids on a “maintainance dose”.

  • I think that changing the language is only really a loss for them. Even though we live in a crazy marketed world where up can mean down a push for greater accuracy with language means a push for greater accuracy on the whole I think.

    Some of these diagnosis like bipolar disorder get so elaborate that in the end it just kinda looks like… life… human ? heh.

  • I think that’s basically been done already really, in a way the OP makes a good point I guess.

    We’re basically at a point where you either see that there is something going on with politics and the media or you’re some kind of idiot. Unfortunately in my opinion even here some posters/commenters kinda look like shills or idiots.

    I don’t think that hardcore communism is really compatible with ‘antipsychiatry’ because how do you get people to conform with hardcore communism ? Probably use psychiatry type methods in some way right ?

  • Great points but i’m not quite sure I agree with the approach you want to take. One of the tactics the enemy uses is divide and conquer.

    If you insist on being critital of the current mental health paradigm + something else, no matter how much sense it makes to you, you are potentially dividing.

    The thing with psychiatry/big pharma, is there does appear to be some element of higher up that seem to be ok with it being challenged. Is that controlled opposition ? Is this site itself merely controlled oppositition ? Who knows, there’s certainly some odd things I see about it, anyway it seems to me that you’re better off just focusing on the many many weak points of the mental health system if that’s the forum you happen to be in. At some point there may be a point where the greater system has to either yield or enforce. Forced injecting of vaccines seems like a neat bypass.

    Who knows though I personally think you can’t beat working on an individual level, you should be getting people to avoid diagnosis/screening, question their “diagnosis” if they have one, and get them off psychiatric medication if they are on them. That’s winning the way the current system is.

  • Oh I forgot the TV show “House” where they devoted a big portion of a season to the most pro-psychiatry advertisement you could possibly imagine.

    The doctor hooked on pain meds, needs to go to the mental hospital where he can then take different drugs to cope, there’s the classic bipolar buddy … organisisng a revolt and a story that ends with him causing some guy to really believe he can fly and kill himself.

  • Yeah there are movies that are pro-drug-psychiatry Shutter Island is another one.

    The latest one is probably “The Voices” with Ryan Reynolds, basically where the protagonists entire reality changes to a ridiculous degree based on whether he takes a pill or not.

    To be fair though there’s also a tonne of movies that don’t paint psychiatry in a good light either. I haven’t seen Silver Linings Playbook or Side Effects but apparently they aren’t exactly pro-psychiatry to name a few.

    I generally try to avoid any movie that involves psychiatry, unless it accurately shows how full of crap it is, then maybe.

  • Heh, credit for being offended and wanting to actually matter. I’m sure a lot of people that have dealt with this stuff would rather blow their brains than deal with true believers professionally.

    I’m not sure about the language side, I agree with you but what can you do ? The entire thing is loaded, framed, jargonised etc etc. At the end of the day i’m not sure how you can _be_ a psychiatrist/clinical psychologist/etc talking at an event and not mention ‘disorders’, ‘illness’ and so on and so forth.

    In the end I’m not sure how any of this can exist if you’re not getting up and claiming that there is something wrong with someone. I don’t believe in censoring or policing language but I can see how it’s definitely part of the problem. I guess you should just be able to counter it by pointing it out to others rather than enforcing the other side to shut up or use different wording.

  • Probably won’t matter though, looks like they’re just going to be able to put whatever they want into vaccines and people will just be forced to take them.

    Pakistan seems like a great place to live, it has the added stress of worrying about whether a “vaccine vigilante” will be coming to inject your child.

    It just screams…. nice…. and caring.

  • In a way it’s true even on this site. Lots of content here is presented in a certain way. I’m not saying it’s not great information given out by obvious experts, but I sometimes wonder why they don’t write in a more plain manner.

    Just saying this after only looking a this on the surface and not looking at the full details of the study:

    Anyway, just from reading this there’s a few things that are ??? Like it’s not just the data, it’s where the data comes from and who it’s going to. Authority. Like of course psychology students are going to be more impressed with neuroscience stuff instead of “hard science” and what I think is funny too is how much weight researchers often place on what is essentially surveys. People can lie in a survey, or answer in a way to appear to impress or curry favor for their teacher or organisation they work for or need something from for instance.

    What student is going to be the one jeopardizing their grades or future whatever over a stupid survey ? The student might think the teachers like their ego stroked over the waffly sciency stuff there, but they might still think it’s actual bullshit.

  • That’s quite a leap there… destruction of property in riots to destroying *people* in the 9/11 attacks.

    Whether it’s lives being destroyed or property it’s the same concept. Taking out frustrations on innocent people is stupid.

    When people wonder why there isn’t a pharmacy in the neighborhood anymore for example, what will people say ? “oh yeah because we trashed the one that was there… why did we do that again ? Oh yeah uhm because we had a problem with the police… so we trashed the pharmacy”

    And yet, on the other hand, there is something important about going beyond the usual peaceful protests, demonstrating outrage, and an unwillingness to protest only within the bounds of the same law that is killing you that is important, too.

    I don’t think you are stupid, but I don’t think you are being honest. I ask myself, would this person take a bag of cash to provocateur and race bait ?

  • Who defines anything ? Who defines hypocrite ? Who draws the line ?

    Did the fundamentalist muslims that carried out the 9/11 attack have a legitimate gripe… and so what they did was ok ? Was it ok… as long as you weren’t in the tower when it happened ? As long as a family member, or someone you knew wasn’t killed ?

    Should you be mad at the terrorist/freedom fighter ? Or the government ? Both ?

    Maybe it’s ok to say you understand why the riots happened, but it’s not ok to offer any kind of excuse for them in my opinion. There is no excuse, it’s just stupid, and if you’re cheering them on or think they’re achieving anything other than worse conditions longer term you are also stupid.

  • It is strange how many people buy this stuff, you can have supposedly skeptical people, even scientists that seem to have this blind spot when it comes to psychiatry.

    It’s weird. Like these geeks or atheist types that can rail against all forms of religion or cult, but there’s this massive load of pseudoscience going unnoticed right under their nose !

  • It’s funny how these are the guys who are supposed to figure out what is an isn’t delusion.

    At this point, not even trying to engage in any kind of debate in regards to psychiatry shows only delusion or corruption.

    Maybe he isn’t lying though, maybe in his mind the current mental health paradigm is simply too big to fail and so if you’re asking difficult questions, you really are a menace.

  • You say the medication helps some people sometimes. How do we really know that though ? How intertwined is the whole thing.

    Like we have placebo right ? But what about… “reverse placebo” as it were. Someone gets told they have a problem, fully backed by the authority of government, peers etc. It’s not easy to just turn the back to that.

    Looking at the drugs, there seems to be no point in taking any antidepressant, there doesn’t seem to be much of anything behind taking a “mood stabilizer”, I can’t really see the point in taking lithium to the point where it’s classed as a drug instead of a mineral, and all the other drugs are for epilepsy which is an actual neurological disorder.

    So that leaves “antipsychotics”, as far as I can tell the main thing these drugs do is knock people out when they’re very distressed. So in effect, they’re a hardcore sleeping pill. I’ve never heard voices myself so, maybe they do stop voices for some people. For me, hearing voices seems like the only legitimate differing from the average experience that a person might have.

    Not going to mention sleeping tablets and benzos because as far as I know even psychiatrist worth their salt don’t want patients being dependant on them.

    Anyway I pretty much agree with the rest, i’ll just add that it does get a lot easier… and really who knows like other people say it used to be called a nervous breakdown and you just got back on with life.

  • The professional who proclaims this strange notion of truth now gets to hold my health for ransom. After a psychosomatic diagnosis enters medical records, all further medical investigation and care are compromised.

    I basically agree that once this happens it seems like you can basically forget about seeing a doctor unless you can point to something that is obviously wrong with you. e.g if you have a giant rash then it will be hard for the doctor to blame that on depression.

    However, there’s also the thing… if an illness “is in your head”, or not an illness but just mental distress etc and doctors don’t really know anything except to charge outrageous amounts of money for damaging drugs or nothing then avoiding that can only be beneficial.

  • It’s a strange time, there are more discoveries about what is good for us but there’s this clamping down as well.

    I know from my own personal experience that I could sometimes get an ear infection and if I went to the doctor, i’d just get a prescription for amoxycillin etc but it’s no joke to say that there are supplements that work too. Just one example.

    So who knows, I think it’s really disappointing that here in Australia at least we have to deal with this gaslight level of propaganda. Like looking here http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/how-anti-vaccination-advocates-sound-to-everyone-else/story-fnet08ui-1227303937594 here is an example of how they just try to shut people down. Anyone with a brain might see how forced injections can be a slippery slope but to bigpharma, newscorp and the Australian government… you’re a retard !

  • Great article. I really don’t know.

    It’s so frustrating that no one seems to grasp these issues of basic freedom anymore. Even my own family just don’t seem to get it.

    We’ll be there watching the news, oh and there’s a report about how a mother was getting her welfare benefits cut if she didn’t agree to vaccinate her child.

    I’m not against vaccines, i’m not saying they don’t work or they all cause autism but how does anyone see that the government being able to force injections on people as a great idea ? The parent should be making an informed decision and it’s incredibly low to say you can’t refuse a vaccines on religious grounds, because you are poor !

    I honestly don’t really know anymore, I feel like i’m just living in crazy land filled with crazy people and there’s nothing I can do about it because i’m just outnumbered.

    It’s terrible really and even i’m tempted to play victim to get my rewards. I don’t work, i’d love to be but I can’t really do much to remedy things without using this crap as an excuse.

    bah ! I don’t really know what to do besides try to stay reasonably healthy and be honest in my disdain for psychiatry. mad world.

    I just don’t think it’s the time for leverage. We can’t convince enough people for capitalism to work and for some reason the left wing has become psychotically authoritarian.

  • it is pretty funny how the disease always becomes more complex to cover for the fact that they can’t really explain what it is.

    It’s weird to hear something explained as a “mixed episode” for instance. It’s really ridiculous to think about.

    Might be an arrogant approach to take but it’s hard not to see how human beings can be influenced by ideas. Sometimes I ask, what came first ? The idea of depression, or the depression ?

  • I was heartened by Dr. Pies’ complaint about Mad In America. It shows that mainstream psychiatry feels very threatened by any real public discussion of its shortcomings.

    I don’t mean to be negative but I can’t help feeling that this corruption is all linked. The corruption in psychiatry isn’t isolated.

    We have mandatory vaccines getting pushed… strange oppressive censorship “diversity”, feminism… hell it looks like even riots are being funded ? whole mass shootings or bombing might even be completely made up ?

    I really hope there’s some good guys out there that have some idea how to clean all this dodgy behavior up because the world to me looks like it’s in a lot of trouble and the falsehood of psychiatry is just one part of the greater disease.

  • Your rationalization is a problem for me in two ways.

    Mentioning prisons implies that this isn’t really so much about doctoring but law enforcement. Social control etc.

    As far as i’m aware there is still no proof that psychiatric illnesses actually exist as discrete medical conditions. Therefore the treatments can not be justified.

    Psychiatrists swore an oath to do no harm, things like chemotherapy treat actual illness even though they cause damage in the process. With psychiatric treatment, there is only harm because it is not doctoring in the first place.

    As for the specific drug you mention, in my opinion it takes a particularly sick individual to prescribe and enforce compliance of that drug, particularly to males. If you want to talk about suicide that drug is a good way to induce it, man boobs, no orgasm, zombified, weight gain, looking forward to an emotionless existence with an early grave…….

  • It is interesting, hey we can call it delusion right, but you can’t argue that it isn’t lucrative delusion. The way western society works, hell the way psychology even works is that if it gets you money, “success” then it it’s a belief worth having right ? Throw out all those pesky “unhelpful” beliefs and ethics that don’t get you the bucks.

    I like the hierarchy of svengali too, so you have your local svengali who thinks the nation svengali is a hero. Putting out these little pamphlets full of complete nonsense with pet arbitrary “diagnosis” and poisoning, oops I mean “treatment”.

  • Disease-model, eugenic, thinking is a direct threat to me personally, especially given the recent rise of UKIP and other far-right parties in Europe.

    I don’t really know much specifically about UKIP or other far right parties in Europe but I highly doubt that any of them would have reintroducing racist eugenic policies as part of their agenda.

    This really sounds like fear mongering on your part. Conflating ‘right wing’, anti-immigration, etc with nazi eugenics is surely wishful thinking.

  • No offence but I read something like this ?

    “I understand where your coming from, my point is that structural violence comes from our still, overwhelmingly UNCONSCIOUS, behavioural motivation. Particularly in Western educated world, with no history of developing “embodied” self-awareness.”

    First I might ask, why use the term “structural violence” ?

    Secondly can’t you see that although this all looks intellectual, what does it actually mean ? What is the unconcious ? Don’t you think you’re being rather assumptive ?

  • I’m just not sure what you’re really looking for when you say *movement*, does a protest infront of a conference of sold out ‘doctors’ do anything ? Are lawsuits here and there ?

    I think what does the most is getting accurate information to a person who is doubting what they are being told. Giving them alternatves etc. If it’s safe to reject this system then I think more people won’t get caught up in it.

    I’m not sure that you can really convince the complex that exists to just go away of it’s own violition. Unfortunately people do buy into the model, unfortunately there are benefits for people who do, benefits that have nothing to do with actually being right. I feel with some of these people you might only see regret from them when confronted with the damage. E.g someone that has taken benzos for 3 years might not regret it now, but maybe they will in 30 years time. I think this is important here because we are getting to a point where there will be an observable impact of the cost of what this system is doing with newer drugs etc but the counter to this is things don’t seem to be slowing down with debt, US immigration etc so government cost doesn’t seem to be the conern you’d assume it would be.

    I have agreed with you in the past about the progressive element but hey to use one of their phrases…. we are not a monolith but I do hope some of these people do see that “social justice” sure can look a lot like tyranny or authoritarianism if you breach the well meaning surface.

  • I think one thing to take note of these days, the way things are with corruption and the internet.

    There are literally teams of people who’s sole job is to monitor the internet, social media etc. This is not paranoia.

    Now, with this in mind if you consider that… when something is working or there is something a pharmaceutical company doesn’t want you to do, they will be sneaky about getting you to stop doing it.

  • I think that the author is spot on and so are you pretty much, I agree that this kind of stuff basically doesn’t even really deserve a response.

    As for the movement, I think that if it’s kept as a PR/information war you can get to people individually and that’s really where it’s at, until you can somehow get past that corruption and get to a tipping point where psychiatry becomes universally unpopular and therefore starved.

    The main threat is when this stuff becomes forced or involves crazy levels of brainwashing etc. There’s a point almost all individuals can reach where they can terminate all “treatment” and there’s nothing anyone can do about it, obviously it depends on what the level of difficulty is on that but it’s possible with determination, patience etc.

  • The thing is that … OK … we basically assume these days that the brain is the mind. People can theorize about quantum mechanics and the brain being an antenna, souls or whatever, anything is possible I guess.

    Anyway, if the brain is the mind (or the mind is a slave to the brain or excluding any number of other possibilities here) then any behaviour or thoughts are a symptom of the brain working right ? So in that respect it’s hard to argue against this model, but like has been said are the ‘diseases’ really diseases !?!? I don’t think so.

    These days everyone is expected to be somewhat of a computer, somewhat of a robot in order to be successful. I don’t know. I think with a lot of these problems toxins, diet, lifestyle, outlook, shitty circumstances are the real explanation rather than brain diseases.

    I’m skeptical of the whole system as it currently stands and I’m skeptical of anyone who really thinks they have some sort of guru status when it comes to the human condition, time and time again the trait that seems to come through is arrogance or just plain craziness.

  • I am somewhat of a relativist at heart.

    In my opinion it’s clear that with psychiatry you’re dealing with beliefs, just like you are with Christianity and with these beliefs there are obvious points of contention,incompatibility etc.

    First thing that pops out to me is the word couseling, is that the prime directive of a psychiatrist ? Or is it diagnosing problems,disorders and assigning appropriate treatment ? For a priest counceling seems like a more appropriate term as to what they do. I guess the answer to your question might be, well a Christian might go to a priest for counseling, about anything, and my confidence in the matter I guess could be noted, heard (!?!?) but the final authority ?

    This issue of homosexuality is hard to even discuss in the current climate but really you get into a lot of issues like… what is marriage ? Why does it exist at all ? Should you be able to dictate what a church does and doesn’t do ? Is every church a business and can anyone demand service ? Is freedom an outworn concept ?

  • I thought that the average psychology expert (hold it in barrab) ahem decided that black and white thinkers were best for the police force.

    Ohhh but only a certain … type get those labels, why waste time ? Just jump straight to that big boy label, helps to … smash things.

  • I don’t doubt there are problems with law enforcement and the legal system in the USA but it goes the other way also.

    From someone outside looking in I think that things look messed up, what is the rule over law over there anyway ? Why is it ok for the president of the country to comment on an ongoing case for instance ? A person’s guilt or innocence shouldn’t be getting influenced while the case is ongoing. It’s just shoddy to me, it seems unprofessional.

    It appears that often times you have the idea that ‘cops hate black people’, and then there’s a case that can potentially confirm this ‘narrative’ and whooa hey, everyone’s talking about it, it’s all over the news, every black media personality chips in their 2 cents and really does it look like the details matter anymore ? Do things like guilt or innocence matter ? No a political point just needs to be made. This worries me a lot, people should be able to believe in the system.

    You say this is big, I can tell you I look at the world today and i’m worried, I’m worried people don’t really care about the ends justifying the means anymore, things are out of control and it’s BIZARRE.

    I could mention more specifics here, things that are really hard to refute but i’m an idiot with nothing, that might mean I can say whatever I want but i’m tried of being the guy with nothing saying things so other people don’t have to.

  • It’s a huge double whammy.

    A ‘patient’ has to deal with :

    > huge amount of stigma and shattered expectations
    > basically an iron willed diet to remain at a healthy weight
    > in my experience the drugs block that feeling of connection and well being you get from exercise, it makes exercise a very difficult thing to actually do

    depending on the situation as well it’s most likely they’ll be dealing with people trained to basically not give a fuck, at all, the only thing they give a fuck about is not making things difficult for them and keeping a record of anything ‘clinically relevant’.

  • Well yeah to me any mention of mental illness seems particularly irrelevant for this study. They’re talking about ‘first episode’ schizophrenia. I mean, what is that anyway ?

    A psychiatrist decided after one ‘psychotic episode’ that a person must be schizophrenic ? This distinction is so confidently made, and then further confident decisions are made like who to rule out.

    A cynical mind might think that this is really just experimentation on humans, they just want to see what the drugs do to a human brain and they need people to test them on.

  • They admit in the final part that ” the simplified FGA/SGA dichotomy in this study belies the pharmacological complexity of each drug “, basically saying “yeah we know that lumping all these different drugs together into only two categories is kinda stupid”

    I don’t know, what do these MRI scans really mean ? That it ‘may’ mean something ? If these drugs ‘may’ make you smarter, then maybe some of these researchers would be keen to see what it’s like to chown down on them for a while.

  • Well I see your reply as essentially complaining about complaining. I’m free to ignore reading things I don’t like it’s true, it appears i’m free to give my opinion too, so I did.

    I’ve said what I think, it’s what I think, it is what it is.

    I think it’s a little convenient (unfair) to blame ‘dissenters’ for not being open, or fleshing out what you’re actually about. It’s also illogical, if you know ‘dissenters’ are going to ‘dissent’ regardless, then you might as well come out and say everything you want to say.

  • Adding more because I can’t help myself =)

    I think it’s important to search yourself when you’re advocating for something to happen. Can you advocate for strict measures on climate change without advocating a lower standard of living … or population control ?

    and are we going to start needing to declare we support these things ? Is everyone involved here going to have to declare they support feminism for instance ? Without asking any questions about what that actually entails or get labeled as a misogynist ?

    I’m just going to say it I feel like there’s a certain element of baby boomer academia represented here, they’ve had their great lives. They’re white, they’re straight, and they’re engaging in a bunch of identity politics which will impact negatively on pretty much everyone in the long run.

  • Like Duane said I feel there has to be some standard in what this site is about.

    I have nothing against people discussing global warming, I just don’t see why it needs to be done here, especially this way where it’s superficial with no one really discussing particulars and what that might mean. It’s a polarizing move, so why do it ?

    Why not stick to the spirit of what the site is about ? Being critical of psychiatry ! Everyone might have a cause they feel passionate about, do they all get up and start using this site for a purpose I assume it wasn’t created for ?

  • I think it’s not that people should be afraid, but because of the prevalence of psychiatry in society use of the word frames the person that identifies with it as being illogical (or whatever other negative connotation you like). The thing is though, it’s been decades and there’s still a dearth of evidence in the existence of these illnesses and a plethora of evidence that the treatments for them are damaging.

    In a logical society, “antipsychiatry” wouldn’t be needed or used as a term, there would only be the illogical “pro-psychiatry”.

  • I don’t know, it leaves things at a vague point if you ask me. What _might_ it mean ?

    What’s the flip side ? That sometimes a person has to deal with dissatisfaction in life ? That not every expectation a person has is reasonable ? That sometimes you might just be worse off comparative to someone else and there’s no one to blame for that or you just have to get over it.

  • All i’ll say is when I read stuff like this is i’m very skeptical. The way you write is indicative of someone that believes in psychiatry, and the important word there is believe.

    The labels stigmatize regardless of what you think their purpose is, they were created by proponents of psychiatry.

    Whatever is going on with your daughter I think that it’s possible for her to live her life without dangerous levels of lithium in her bloodstream and your husband, well what is depression really ? How much of it is a construct ? Is half the problem belief in its existence as brain disease ?

  • Assuming Szasz was correct people wouldn’t be diagnosed with depression and be prescribed antidepressants to begin with.

    Who knows, can someone be hypnotized to kill ? There’s at least one person who made this claim.

    I think with these questions I wonder if we really want to find out the answers. Do we really want to live in a completely safe environment ? Do we really want to breed out ‘inperfection’ ? Do we want to be able to measure a person’s free will ? Put it on a continuum ? Can psychiatry really take care of all this ? What’s the cost going to be, how many get caught in a net they shouldn’t be in, and the people that don’t get caught will they really live in utopia ?

  • We don’t have the death penalty in Australia.

    Ignoring the legal specifics I suppose it is interesting to consider who a voice belongs to and who is responsible for carrying out it’s command.

    Either way aren’t people with ‘mental illness’ no more likely to commit crimes than the average population ? Or do we then start talking about how all criminal behaviour is an indication of mental illness ? In which case, get rid of all prisons and just have mental homes, screen the population at an early age and send off anyone who is even remotely suspicious to a treatment center.

  • I think that there’s an emphasis on things being a _huge deal_, that upheaval is needed, panic etc rather than a calm, rationalizing, ‘normalizing’ way of dealing with whatever.

    If something is episodic in nature, or perceived to be, then it will pass. Psychiatrists seem to fly off the handle, they see disordered thought and the instinct is freak out, bomb it out of existence with large doses of major tranquilizers, and afterwards ? Well keep taking them, the assumption being that they will prevent another ‘episode’, and if life sucks a bag of dicks inbetween … well at least that future episode is prevented right ? Sure, forget that there’s no proof of lasting physical harm from the ‘illness’ but there appears to be indisputable evidence that these drugs are ‘bad m’kay’.

  • From what I heard they are going giving it to the ‘worst cases’ in the latest Australian trial, but I share other people’s concern.

    I can’t help feeling very skeptical about ‘clinical/major depression’, there’s just so many things that can cause a person to feel down and I really do wonder if ‘awareness’ of depression is not a plus, but a minus.

    Either way… ketamine ? So ‘patients’ will be injecting themselves ? Or coming in for a weekly injection ? Bleh. I guess it can be a case of whatever works but what is actually working ? heh.

  • Guess it comes down to a couple of things.

    1> Assuming the illness is real, is the kindling theory real ? i.e ‘episodes’ cause brain damage, lower IQ etc. (as far as i’m aware this is unproven)

    2> Assuming the illness is real, does the person handle things worse to the point it effects their health/do they get less support from the system ? (eg homeless, take worse care of themselves in other ways that damage their health)

    What i’m getting at is at some point the person who avoids antipsychotics is practically guaranteed to be better off at a certain point. They aren’t going to have the problems associated with their use, live longer etc.

  • It’s pretty well known that Syphilis will cause insanity… that Lyme disease can have fibromyalgia-like symptoms etc ? Will they be proving that pathogens cause major depression ? Or that what they thought was major depression was infection by a pathogen ?

  • This is pretty much off topic but I would be interested in hearing about Lithium. Whether low amounts in water supply is actually beneficial or not ?

    Lithium is a mineral/element, only really classed as a drug by psychiatry when it’s basically right on the edge of toxic right ? But there’s stuff floating around the periphery that a low ‘dose’/supplementation might actually be good.

  • Yeah I don’t know what the game is. There’s been a distancing from the CCHR it appears, despite Robert Whitaker appearing in their videos, the same videos that are apparently propaganda now ?

    Now we have this stuff, so what’s going on ?

    I’ll just say it, have your beliefs, but don’t try to bullshit people.

  • Yeah, who knows, I think people may not really understand the giant can of worms they’re really opening when they don’t just focus on the clear failures of the system.

    It could be a great exchange of ideas though, I honestly believe this is a great site, it’s great it exists. Sometimes I still open up Cohen and Breggins “Your drug may be your problem”, and it still blows my mind to think, damn this is actually how it is.

  • I’m seeing a lot of mental gymnastics going on. I think it’s am obvious wedge to just rock up and say ‘what about climate change’, used as some nebulous term. What is really wanted ? Agreement on an outside topic ? What is actually being advocated ?

    Does pollution cause mental illness ? Well, that’s relevant.
    Are certain lifestyles a problem ? That’s relevant.

    Empty …”What about global warming ? ” “We gotta do something about global warming guiyz” “I know you’re here to discuss mental health but you must also accept climate change is as important while you’re here” It’s nuts.

  • Look, these things are simply unrelated and it serves no purpose to link them together. The only reason they would be linked together is because someone is coming here and trying to co-opt this movement or to divide it. It’s that simple.

    The same problems are there with methods proposed to supposedly address man made global warming, crony capitalism etc. I object to someone that wants to come and try to introduce irrelevant topics.

  • I don’t know, I welcome any efforts to critique psychiatry and I think this website is great, there’s a tonne of great information and I personally haven’t seen any censoring going on so I’m not sure what there is to be upset about.

    Reading this overview here one thing that jumps out… I will say trying to link climate change to psychiatry seems… if I may be frank, like pure insanity. I don’t think you can expect anyone to take you seriously if you just keep trying to bring in unrelated issues, and it is unrelated, it’s completely unrelated.

    Anyway, this site might favor professionals that know something is wrong but are still trying to retain their purpose in this role, good luck to them I guess. This site still contains information that is without a doubt more accurate than many other sites on the web. So as long as there’s a commitment to truth, an adherence to the true spirit of journalism, intellectual honesty , no inappropriate censoring etc then I think the site is a major asset for anyone.

  • I don’t know. I think it is possible that continued exposure of the lack of proof for the brain diseases and the ineffective and damaging treatments for said diseases could eventually lead psychiatry as a profession to be seen akin to something like chiropracty.

    I guess it also depends which way governments go, do they support psychiatry to get more authority over the populace or do they look at the rising costs to society as a whole from psychiatry, maybe in the end they might not have a choice. It really depends how unpopular psychiatry might become.

  • Like discussed in another article here I agree this is something that psychologists really have to think about.

    There’s no point acting like a superior force looking to slap labels on and report back to a master doctor in secret, well if there is you better hope that it’s because they’re being forced to or are downtrodden.

    No one in their right mind is going to continue to pay money for this.

  • Exercise too it seems to be something overlooked.

    One thing I’ll bring up too is that it’s a sign of the times that people almost have to be careful when talking about something that might work because if it becomes too popular it might get banned or become too expensive.

    These days even if something is good, and athletes start using it, it might get banned.

    There’s many possibilities out there, when you look at doctors treating epilepsy with marijuana for instance, I mean there’s really a lot more options these days with supplements than just using high doses of vitamins.

  • I do think at the end of the day if you can’t help someone in a direct sense then you’re in murky waters.


    If a person is homeless, does a psychologist give them a home ?
    If a person has no job, no career, does a psychologist give them one ?

    No ? Then what good are they really ? A psychologist is a meta helper but is that what anyone really needs ? Or is it just a nice thing they might want ? I think you’re on the right track, life coaching sounds more direct, like there’s a goal to actually do something instead of just waffle for an hour then collect cash.

  • Just to add, I’m sure you know but these days the opponent is sneaky. You might not be able to market drugs directly to consumers, but in Australia we have this “R U OK?” campaign where you’re supposed to find someone “in trouble”, a friend a mate, and then push them to “get help”.

    This gets plastered all over mainstream media, from football celebrities to newsreaders, and.. just happens… to you know… be sponsored/funded by mental hospital chains and drug companies.

    This is the kind of attack people are under without even really understanding that it’s not really about helping out friends, it’s about funnelling more people through a system, cash money.

  • Honestly I think that ultimately the win comes when psychiatry and pharma loses it’s popularity, it’s cool factor, when people just stop accepting it as legitimate. That can happen.

    All the marketing and money won’t work then. It was good to see Peter Gøtzsche on the daily show, for instance, now sure he mentioned organised crime on the same show that defended Hilary Clinton but at least some people might start questioning things where they weren’t before.

  • I don’t want to attack you but you have to get more hardcore. Do what you can to be healthy, look for issues that might be causing problems, exercise if you aren’t.

    Your post smells a bit funny but i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. The thing is you obviously don’t buy psychiatry anyway so in my opinion you will be better off if you stop engaging with it if and when you can. A crappy life with psychiatry will be less crappy without it.

  • Was great to see Peter on ‘The Daily Show with Jon Stewart’, it’s a biased show overall and it would have been better if they treated him with a proper interview but it was better than nothing and good to see something critical of big pharma on a show like that.

  • Well like you say, if the client can’t pull the plug then it’s essentially forced and then “patient-perspective care” becomes a shambolic term.

    Beyond dispensing common sense I’m not really sure what a psychologist could ever really be an expert in besides manipulation but I wish you luck in helping people “reach their potential” even though it has a ring of arrogance to it.

    Last post from me in this thread.

  • Sorry if I come off harsh, I just agree that the system appears to be set up where the client isn’t in control.

    However ultimately the client is in control, because the client can simply cease seeking the services of mental health professionals.

    I just think it’s something to think about when a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist is writing down “clinically relevant”, things behind a clients back.

  • Even when it’s not ‘forced psychiatry’ it makes even less sense.

    Why would you go to a see a clinical psychologist in Australia ? All you’re doing is paying to trash your own reputation. At least if someone is claiming you’re a danger to yourself or someone else there might be a point in being forced to do something.

    If you’re just a client it’s a really stupid thing in my opinion to get a referral from a psychiatrist to see a psychologist who then pressures you to be able to maintain a private channel of communication. Essentially treating you like a piece of trash, existing only to make sure you get some negative labels slapped on and make sure everyone’s getting paid, with your money, and/or the government’s.

  • I get the impression that Vegwellian benefits from system, so it’s not really a surprise that they look to justify its existence.

    That’s really the thing, just by saying (paraphrased) “you have no idea because you aren’t seeing what I see”, implies involvement in some way.

    Making the point that there’s something %1 of the population has, why not flip it around. Psychiatry wants to be ‘treating’ more than that %1. Why always attempt to shift focus to this %1 ? I mean it’s good to bring up and wonder about but how many severely impaired ‘schizophrenic’ patents are there compared to the multitude of people ‘diagnosed’ with depression, ADHD, anxiety ‘disorders’, bipolar etc ?!?!

    A lot right, and you say that these millions of people are apparently helped, well I say no they aren’t, they are conned and poisoned.

  • I think it’s possible that there’s problems that just aren’t being identified. Don’t you think it’s ironic that there is a belief “schizophrenia” is genetic but there is no actual proof that it is ?


    Is psychiatry, the diagnosis of schizophrenia a catchall ? Sorry to be blunt but is someone severely impaired simply brain damaged ? What caused that damage ? Is it really an illness known as schizophrenia ?

  • I was terrified, because I knew that the his brain’s white matter was slowly being destroyed.

    As far as I know applying the kindling model in relation to psychiatric illnesses is… controversial.

    I beg you to question all bias and to understand that there is no one “right” treatment or approach, only the one that works. Only by doing this will you truly help people. Informed is empowered.

    Well, from reading your post it seems like you’re still viewing things through that made up lens of psychiatry but i’m happy things worked out for you and your son.

  • Well, the MIA audience is made mostly of little children who know that there is no Santa Claus whose hero is that lillte kid who spilled the beans for them. A speech designed for the adults assuring them that the truth didn’t get very far with all kids at large is unlikely to be well recieved by such an audience. So what happened was expected.

    Honestly I think you are right, this does seem to be the attitude. I think that might be what touches a cord, not that you are right, but that this is the attitude.

    It’s almost like some of these “adults” are in a way trolling the “children” deliberately………..

  • It’s like you say the psychiatrist just doesn’t know but the problem is they act like they do and it’s a powerful influence.

    From my understanding, many psychiatrists will simply tell a ‘patient’ that they have a serious condition and will need to be on medication for the rest of their lives. Based on nothing except their ego.

    If a ‘patient’ says they are having problems and want to get off drugs, they will be don’t if they don’t keep taking the drugs they have some arbitrarily high percentage chance of an episode. No advice given on the dangers of withdrawing abruptly. It’s simply assumed the patient will do what they’re told, and if they don’t and there’s a problem, well it’s their illness.

    None of this is really helpful, none of it reduces anxiety, makes the person feel supported in doing what they can to really get better. Honestly considering the lack of evidence for these illnesses and the harshness of the treatments for them it’s not hard to see how people that go through this stuff get very angry and have no problem labeling the average psychiatrist as a dangerous fraudster.

  • I guess what I mean by a few posts in this thread is that it’s really irrelevant to me that someone might try to label anyone as “anti psychiatry” and I really don’t see why the reaction should be ” oh no not me” , or “oh no not this site”.

    Who cares ? Why play the game ? Why struggle to own the label or clarify it ?

    Whatever is being done, chips away at what is there, worry about abolition or retaining whatever apparent benefits there are to psychiatry when that point is reached.

  • Yeah, I feel the same way.

    I think though that you can try to say you aren’t ‘anti’ but are ‘critical’ instead or whatever ultimately if you’re disputing the validity of the diagnoses and/or the treatments for them it’s hard to see how you aren’t disputing the validity of psychiatry as a profession.

    Where is the line between distress and disorder ?

  • I just find it strange that we have a site where the majority of content…

    > Questions the validity of ‘diagnosis’ and/or
    > Questions the validity of treatments for said ‘diagnoses’

    but somehow doesn’t want to identify as “anti-psychiatry”

    What exactly is really being said when it’s said that this site isn’t “anti-psychiatry” because to be honest I don’t get it. Is it a matter of supplying credentials as to not be seen as a wacko or something ?

  • Just to add, I find it funny how people reference Freud or Jung or Liang or whoever like they should be some kind of authority.

    They were mad. I mean what the hell ?!!??!

  • I agree that it’s better to keep it specific.

    I think it’s important to see the framing with “anti-psychiatry”, what about “pro-psychiatry” ? At the end of the day psychiatry pushes a model and range of treatments. The onus of proof is on the “pro-psychiatry”, it’s the movement that truly exists, it’s the bullshit.

    Really a psychiatrist that just wants to go back to talk therapy, retain their power and earning potential whilst still pushing ‘disorders’ is still going to be a blight on society overall.

  • First off, I don’t have anything to do with Scientology. I can understand that any movement or organisation that wants to challenge the current western mental health system might want to distance themselves from Scientology.

    That said, where is the line between distancing yourself from the religion but vilifying everything an organisation like the CCHR does. I agree the line is if the CCHR is used to promote Scientology.

    I just think it’s a little ironic to basically question psychiatry but then turn around and say “oh but if drugs help you then these guys are whackadoodle anti drug zealots”, lets face it everyone on this site basically agrees that psychiatry can’t prove what it’s treating, that the drugs are basically bad m’kay. What is the point of being disingenuous about it ?

    So I might be here saying if you feel bad, you don’t have to take an SSRI, but if the person goes and takes the SSRI anyway, then maybe they have the right to do so, but in my opinion they made the wrong choice otherwise why make the argument at all ?

  • Well I think you have to ask if the person who wrote that might have gotten better over time without treatment and if how they are now is mainly just a result of time passing.

    I don’t know, the sentiment you express is noble but there are sides in this, I don’t really think that it’s projection to use your own experiences as evidence when advocating, and on this issue I don’t see a problem with advocating.

    But hey, maybe they’re just true believers and you’re still in your denial phase 🙂

  • It’s interesting to think… even assuming these chronic illnesses do exist as they are reported to (I feel dirty) might this data show that if they are not used sparingly their effectiveness is reduced ?

    Like a Parkinsons patient with l-dopa ?

  • The only thing that would cause psychiatry to change is money and power.

    Either psychiatry finds a way to maintain it’s power and earning potential whilst moving to a model that is less damaging OR it comes under enough opposition and lack of engagement that it’s forced to disband, change, become less influential etc.

    It’s true that you don’t really get therapy from a psychiatrist anymore, but odds are when someone is seeing a clinical psychologist, they were referred to them by a psychiatrist and the clinical psychologist is still sending regular updates to a psychiatrist. In essence, psychiatry still in charge, still with the authority.

    It’s not like psychology doesn’t also rest on shaky ground either. It’s potentially just a less damaging fraud, you the kind without type II diabeties, or a shrunken brain or a working thyroid glan etc.

  • The problem in trying to change things is there are forces pushing the other way.

    Take this tragedy as an example…


    It’s hard not to argue against a knee-jerk reaction. Why did this man kill his father and sister ? Schizophrenia ? Years of on-and-off treatment of antipsychotics ? Some other drug ?

    I’d be interested in seeing an expert that posts on Mad In America tackle this kind of issue because it’s obviously being used to remove rights.

  • Guess it could work if they use something like this to increase their charging rates.

    People might want to see the “real deal”, or there might need to be a certain amount of “real deal” to supervise the new recruits. Thus justifying a more profitable model.

    Might even work if they limit the amount of psychiatrists out there or if there’s less of them coming through the universities. More scarcity, more demand.

  • I get what you’re saying but even on the internet things have changed.

    The war on Scientology has died down and that was the go to foil.

    Sites like this are here, it’s harder to just attack the person now. The message is there and is it really not getting through ? Look at these heads of organisations, softening their stances or calling for different treatment modalities.

    Really this is something that I think is working. Maybe it’s just a thing where a psychiatrist may look up one day from his pad and the revolving door isn’t spinning every 15 minutes anymore, eventually it just won’t be revolving at all.

  • The only purpose of a moderate view in this struggle is to help convince people who don’t have a dog in the fight which side is the good one.

    What is a person who keeps going to a psychiatrist trying to reason with them while they’re getting billed and perscribed drugs in the process ?

  • If they can’t refute what he’s saying it doesn’t really matter what he does for his day job.

    If they can’t discredit him based on the actual content he’s going over then I guess attempting to block him and personal attacks is all they have.

    It sure appears like there’s a bunch of professions and an industry that doesn’t have a solid foundation, a justification for doing what it does. It doesn’t really matter how many letters a psychiatrist has after their name if they can’t even prove they’re treating real illnesses, apart from the medical training it might as well be a degree in theology.

  • Well with the way the world appears to be going my guess is the essence of psychiatry will have to remain useful in the law and order field to really continue to exist in the same vein.

    Focusing essentially on the existence of unwanted behavior as their mandate. The problem is there’s a line with this that really looks quite scary the further it’s pushed along.

  • This just seems like a polarising issue i’m afraid. My personal opinion is that it’s probably best to move on from sites like this.

    I appreciate what the people on the front lines are doing but it’s just too offensive to me to watch or read this stuff anymore.

    The authorities in mental health have their livelyhoods tied to psychiatry. Questioning the model threatens livelyhoods, there’s no nice way around it. It’s depressing no doubt but sooner or later something will have to give, damage is piling up.

  • Although you’re alot less likely to end up with physical complications from choosing purely psychology instead there’s still plenty to be concerned about.

    So you can see a psychiatrist for 15 minutes for $120 or talk to a psychologist for $150 for an hour. Someone is most likely to still be getting ripped off, you, your insurance company or the government.

    It seems to me that direct assistance would seem like the best thing to try first e.g help a jobless person get a job, a homeless person get housing etc.

  • Yes I personally don’t really get it. Especially when it comes to what was said in one comment about this site and Whitaker in particular.

    I’m not seeing any hero worship, or cult-like behaviour. To me he’s just a guy trying to point out facts and attempting to get people to see reason. He doesn’t seem to be avoiding criticism either.

    Is it all just not hardcore enough ? Well surely it has to better than nothing, better than being completely ignored and written off. He probably wouldn’t be speaking anywhere if his power point slide started off with “It’s all bullshit”, even though plenty of rational people would come to that conclusion about psychiatry.

  • Here’s the problem I have right from the beginning with this. The title, the question is skewed right from the beginning and is not the one people should be asking.

    The correct question is “Can poor nutrition cause/be a factor in psychosis/acute emotional distress ?”