Saturday, July 20, 2019

Comments by CatNight

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  • Erinco, interesting writing but you seem to be blinded by Mr. Stern’s intelligence and verbal skills. His case is a great example of surface cure. And this has been the blaring siren song of psychotherapy. If not done well and if there is a power differential say starpower the analyst is just as much a prisoner as the patient.
    For all his so called” insight” Mr. Stern has not owned up to or expressed sorrow and guilt over his decades long verbally abusive radio show. When he was not part of the problem he was aiding and abetting others in their isms of all kinds say like maybe birtherism?
    I have heard no true apology. I have heard no OMG ephiphany of true insight.
    So yeah the three times to five times a week can change people in some ways but ah the concept of social justice, equality, and the concept of common good – the image of one as a human in a planet in crisis – there are other ways to help oneself and see how interconnected we all are.
    BTW one free way of doing psychoanalysis sign up to work with a Clinic who trains folks. Like other professions the student analysis is free.
    So thanks for the economic lesson but old stuff and when one picks a subject make sure the subject actually fits the definition of cured. My guess he has not been able to learn empathy and like a kindergartener can use the vocabulary but has no idea of the real meaning behind them.

  • Good to see the timeline but hard to read about the death of someone caught in a tangle of modern life.
    It ‘s all there though not highlighted.

    Altar boy- I would wonder about abuse

    Poorly fitting school environment

    Opioid script possible addiction and potential nondiagnosed concussion.

    Trauma/ the death of a parent

    – the MH professionals should have addressed all of these issues straight on so maybe incompetentency in the MH system pervasive malpractice orgininating in education at the college and graduate level though there have been books and research on cultures but small and never integrated
    into the general mind set of society.
    SANSHA dual dx but never into the opioid diseaster and never into the idea of addiction as possible way of coping with trauma.
    Other issues gender identity and sexuality and bullying in school and was the school Catholic? Or like the public schools of England and other countries where from Tom Brown’s School Dsys and prior to and beyond the abuse could be both from peers and or adults. Luck of the draw for all of us.
    If you watch the series on Cheyrobol somehow easier to watch for me than the searing expose of pain shown in the Central
    Park 5 series and documentary – the Workers st the plant – 7 to 1 and they had been programmed always to obey the leader even if the leader were clearly wrong. So much for the lessons of the Nuremberg Trials unless this is an op for interweaving how Trauma seeds do much in all our human systems.

  • Julie, what always bothered me in leaving a place with so called issues sometimes voluntarily or sometimes because of politics, or other because of draconian paperwork requirements or even those times when the transition to end employment was smooth-
    I always felt pain for those folks left behind. It was both the folks and sometimes the staff. But especially if children were involved, another loss to lives of too too many losses and bad luck. So it was trauma for me as well.
    Damn I couldn’t do what I could have done or wanted to do. Stymied by the folks who only see money really I don’t have any other explanation other than greed or maybe zombie hood.
    Take care of yourself too. The yuck factor spreads.
    The other issue of bullying. Online bullying happens and is nefarious because so hard to prove and NOBODY wants to touch it with a ten foot pole- NOBODY.
    There is nothing worse to hear as a parent with an adolescent I don’t want to go to school not because of learning but because of bullying.
    The other factor is money – parents with means wield a heavy sword above teachers and the school board heads and if a offspring is involved- Not My Child!
    Which actually red flag educators a parent who is a so called good parents will know all kids aunt angels and be willing to ponder okay what could my child have done? Knowing kids to stupid and mean things and part of growing up is learning not to do stupid and mean things because really what mother wants to have to ask the question did I raise a monster?
    And then what abuse have the bullies endured? Children do not just become bullies. Though sometimes there are children you wonder but then I come back to intergenerational trauma or trauma at conception or in the womb.
    My child’s solution was to go to Community College And was awoken to the real world and did just fine.
    My talks with the superendent and police liaison officer were futile. The principal was not an option because she had verbally abused another child.
    The Guidance Department folks were useless in that they saw experienced bullying and did NOTHING.
    When your child is called down to Guidance and the staff is commandeered to stand in a line and watch as a traffic ticket is issued to an unsuspecting teen who is in AP and a busy volunteer then one knows the whole community is involved in the bullying.
    Someday , I hope to move since the community bullying continues to this day.
    Thanks for sharing your experience. Education can be so important and good but it also can be as evil as the devil.

  • My sense is that it is ultimately a red herring dialogue because if money were not involved in the process no diagnosis would ever be needed because it would only be a transaction between the helper and helpee.
    Money makes the MH world go around and some folks have figured out how to game the system bigly.
    Ida foundation or government agency would just offer salary and not require payback part of the false dichomity would be leveled.
    Title I Social Workers were paid that way as well asHospital Social Workers but that was long ago and now far away.
    By doing eliminating payment for services more time and energy could be used for addressing real mumtiststemic needs like say our earth and housing? As just two of a flood of needs.
    Think of all the time energy these folks put in and still in a quagmire.
    I appreciate the efforts but eliminate all payment entities and beucracies and go back to small clusters or one to one. Even bartering would be better than all the interference set up to block humans in need of whatever fill in the blank to get the help they need or want or desire.
    And if folks were educated on the how to for taking care of ethics they could in many cases be a umbrella. Perps use oeople’s ignorance and fear in any power situation- take away the ignorance and fear and there is a less chance of abuse.

  • If Tina really did help thanks!
    Katel,
    There are tons of books, plays, television shows, and movies.
    Some are into the biochemical approach some are not.
    There seems to be a timeframe with the early sixties past and after taking a nonchemical approach- “ I Never Promised You a Rose Garden”
    Movies such is “ A Child is Waiting” and “ Lisa and David” skim the area but are not true survivors films.
    After Jen Jersey’s “ Ine Flew Over the Cuckoo Nest” which was biographical portrayed as fiction – things started changing and there has been a steady stream of folks who are fine taking the chemicals proscribed. Kay Redfield Jamestown MD is one
    Cheryl Townsend started Intentional Peer Support And has some writing our Don Writz Book is here free.
    There are so many strands from Sci FYI to Horror to “Almost Normal”
    The psych survivor tales get pushed out by the literary big wigs because many many are involved in treatment and using the chemicals.
    I still have not been able to figure out the whole addiction process in all of this.
    12 step folks struggle as well.
    Old timers would say no way to any chemicals and then there were so many folks but my doctor gave me a prescription that it seems many became resigned to their use. But some 12 steppers will swear some are addictive.
    And with the opioid mess it gets to be a real nightmare. And the medical profession seems lost.
    I think they know but see chemicals as a band aid to stop the bleeding but everyone who is aware band sids are not long term solutions and do not cure.
    If anyone wants I could write a blog on the arts and name more names and artistic endeavors and it could be used as an ongoing list for folks. I certainly don’t know everything and even what I do know hits and misses.
    Especially if oneblioks st this white privilege. This is a huge gap. Other subjects touch in this like Roseanne Guy’s “Hunger”
    We need so much more than we have no to pull it all together. Do many times it seems multiple hidden moons circling.

  • Maybe what is needed is a piece on how to talk to folks or dialogue with them in regards to getting help or if they have pondered medication.
    Because of the vast amount of Pharma ads and the way they are designed and implemented one would think of them as a solution. The madmen and madwomen know humans and are good at manipulation and propaganda.
    There actually is a medical advertising hall of fame or should I say Shame?
    So we all are immersed in this level of subtle manipulation on an ongoing basis.
    So this is what I have done in my best self way- not every day is my best self and the rage comes and goes but when things are calm.
    Okay so you want to work in some things- nite here- try to wait until I think I need help with this ————- full in the blank issue. To intervene as in an intervention do not do this unless you are prepared to accept responsibility from any negative fallout and do not cherry pick asking others about concerned person I would say don’t go there at all. Wait, be patient trust folks to know they may be in crisis.
    I had an intervention done to me and as someone I lived once said to me the path to hell is paved with good intentions.
    That being said if someone does identify a need of their own give them multiple options and information. If for sin reason in too much crisis do reflective listening and give simple options.
    Most of the time the problem is the LACK of GOOD OPTIONS.
    Ask for help from someone else or with lived experience.
    I refer folks here and say I can tell you my story and thoughts.
    U suggest all the alternative therapies saying – this is a journey, some may work , some may not.
    Try to give low cost options or creative ways to get low cost options for alternatives ie massage schools, yoga teacher training – FREEBIES!
    For talk therapy say try at least three folks – hit or miss- research each therapist
    What do you want help with? What do you want to do yourself?
    Sometimes some people have found help with medication but no one really knows why and then issues with taking are threefold and tell them.
    Offer to go with them and be an ear and eye. One can ask to record interview or session.
    And again I would repeat over and over this is your journey yeah it s—— that you are here but use it as a tool and sometimes better actually comes. And if they don’t believe okay but if I am right you buy me lunch? Humor is essential. And listen and shut up until specifically asked.
    And the best thing is not to go away even if asked. Wait, sometimes the tuner stumbles and really does need a help or and or the finish line is reached and they want to process the journey.
    And be truthful.If you don’t know you really don’t know.
    So these are my thoughts/ do whatever with them as you all see fit.

  • Auntie, I have always liked your moniker.
    I think Sandra like the U.N. official- see latest MIA post is walking with us.
    How close and I sync are dimensions of individualism seen on any piligrimagr route. It is a process and so many ways.
    As in Dickens’ “ Oliver Twist” the reply to the question- “ Barkis is willing” is there though subtle .
    The U.N. route or The Hague is the way to go,
    The time is now not for vocalizing our so justified outrage but to work to get the tribunal. Don’t bsrk up the wrong tree!
    The fellow pilgrims may smell, one might agree on everything, and they may anger one at times but heck they on the road.
    I joe someday we can say we are all passing third and going home.

  • Alessa well yes of course the ice of using other alternatives to chemicals even of short duration is the primary goal.
    Thequqmire is most so called places of help only have chemicals are are basically prison barracks.
    One would hope there could be a sea change with trauma centers and if needed smallsmall units until all the support systems and alternatives could be put in place.
    Still some folks may still want a chemical option and again choice even a choice oneself disagrees with is paramount. If they have true informed consent and know the risks of addiction and withdrawal – there problem.
    But still there is the issue of forced treatment

  • Annita, the spelling of your name unusual but very interesting personal story. You were in the “Splendor in the Grass” or “Sybil” white female in crisis who lucked out as so many many do not.
    Your economic class ensured a sense of buoyancy but the pain of abuse and the treatment cannot be dismissed nor should anyone’s trauma.
    I knew what your story was as soon as a started reading. Past professional knowledge base.
    Your reading of medical records without support why?

    When I went to ask the medical records department of a certain local hospital the female clerk said quote unquote you are not going to like what is in there.
    Talk about malpractice in all its forms!
    That was the worst part of trying to piece together a seemingly unsolvable puzzle. The gall of that woman!!!!!!!!!

    So as Mary Oliver has written what are you going to do with your one wild truthful life now?

    How are you going to help? What you and others experienced so many have not. Not happy ending.What do you see for yourself? How did you treat your patients? Did social justice ever become a concern or cause?
    Did you stay in that bubble and practice there?
    It would be helpful to know. I am glad you survived. Your voice is needed!

  • Sandy thanks for the discussion but a very hard read for me on the psych survivor side of my life and also as a past professional in the field.
    This discussion is flashback city. But there it is and the last section about the insidious low drumbeat should have been first out of the door.
    But here are my thoughts
    1) Having developed Parkinsonism and told by a neurologist to stop well yeah but after inpatient experiences that out fear into my soul marrow- it would have helped for him- oh my – to actively advocate for me.
    In a different world we’re my father and other folks practiced it would have been a no brained call and write a letter to document your medical assessment .
    I had to stop on my own violation and it took years and I still carry the burden of weight.
    So maybe a team approach?
    2) The discussion of Haldol is chilling to read with current prescription practices and advertising being totally marketed as the real thing.
    As you may know Haldol was a go to prescription for the elderly who exhibited so called problematic behavior.
    On the medical unit we had folks thinking they were at a restaurant, someone circling the floor thinking she had lost her flight in the airport, and more.
    Nursing staff and residents were doing the right thing just trying to go with the flow and reassure as much as possible.
    Medical students however would be alarmed and would order Haldol but they weren’t always good about knowing the right doses for certain populations or the concept of mileu and now today Improv work with the confused elderly so danger for patients st times.
    When I was in crisis and inpatient I begged for 5 mg Haldol but no and proof positive I was really “ crazy”
    So this is a sad confirmation, I was right. I knew the dangers, saw the Code Blue but also aware of the new drugs- did not trust since 1981 biomarkers for depression- Never found.
    3) The issue of advertising and guild protection circling the wagons subtle but there and yes. The same folks who created the opioid crisis in many ways also as a precursor similar to the Nazi early experiments with the handicapped and homosexuals laid and profited off ALL of these chemical formulas.
    Also the end of patent copyright and more tools for them. The pain scale developed at from a Pain Management Department at Tufts by Aa very very generous grant by the Family of psychiatrists who created their own chemical company.
    4) The concept of choice and informed concent in my time as patient clearly did not have that nor was I seen as a human being with any type of a personal or famial narrative. I was a mere cog who happened to have skin and bones and private insurance.
    You might be different and it certainly seems you really have tried to be open and see what lies beneath the psychiatry family room carpet. But one also must believe and respond to the horrors of personal experience. Just like sexual abuse survivors.
    How considering the muck of s—- not sure.
    5) Choice – on the medicalfloor there was a Type I diabetic of legal age who wanted to stop her insulin. She was allowed almost died then changed her mind. The idea of noncompliance was always at issue for all patients – the forcing of those who at the heart of it all are trauma from life folks is beyond chilling.
    The biopsychistry approach deliberately and willfully due to greed quashed any information on trauma and the history of alternative treatments that were used in the past. Check out Trudy Schoop/ never heard of her I bet —-yet she was there on the wards and many others ground into oblivion.
    So these are my thoughts. Since I worked in the field like you I have flashbacks for those times when I was blind and unaware. I went into the field because it did not make sense and it was such a large part of helping professions. The only positive in any of this is my hope for the truth and some sort of restorative justice.
    Leon Uris in one of his novels on the Israeli – Palestine conflict has a page or two on a psychrists suggestion for peace there
    It deserves reading and distribution.
    Basically own your mistakes, accept them, and apologize and then do what one can to restore the error. All of this in a framework of—— imperfection apologies will always miss the mark, owning up will always involve a but but but, and restoration really only a sembalabce or symbol.
    But there it is a guide for a very very imperfect world. And even tribunals cannot undo the horror and tragedy.
    But those who actually performed and profited from crimes against humanity that is also part of restorative justice.
    May the dialogue continue and please speak truth to power you can do it.

  • So Pacific Dawn does your statement mean or include me?
    I am a former practioner but have lived psych survivorship?
    Again like in Nazi Germany, Apartheid South Africa, Vichy France, the American Jim Crow South and past and present, and those who worked with First Nation peoples bad bad and more bad but there were some who tried to help who if nothing else recognized the wtf aspect of these and other systems.
    And if you did try things fall apart despite one’s best intents.
    So have your anger but see it as a fabric of sky on a cloudy night with a passing light or two.
    Fabric can be used or ripped apart shredded or painted on- up to you.
    I really like your thinking and knowledge base. What would Andrea Dworkin do or say? She admitted she loved the writing of the old white men sexist and whatever else they were.
    Coming from her timeframe we had no other choice but to learn and if awake try to expolate from that KNOWING old white guys are in our mindset forever.
    Think on this please.
    Mad mom- right on target in many ways- see above words.
    You need to be on a Board with your knowledge and passion.

  • More than a sigh with this small gleaming.
    Back in the day, professional folks were supposed to work as a team and in the margins oh my the so called patient was suppose to be part of the team. Nothing nothing new here just confirmation of the amensia the last thirty to forty years.
    In teaching hospitals the med students and or residents come from or act as if they come from privileged backgrounds.
    Many have no concept of the feel and look and smell and sound of poverty.
    In my area the RC nuns tried to go into the urban areas to live and many, many could not handle the experience. Catholic Worker and other social justice/ spiritual folks could but again time limited and NOT intergenerational.
    And female health and narratives? Trans and gender? Now not there st all in biopsychistry though my place of work did have a gender transition program and psych was supportive. Things were starting to bubble up and biomarkets and better living through chemistry became an almost only option. Thank you DuPont, Monsanto, and all the Big Pharma national and international for profit big pockets only for me and my family decades of hard hard work. All those emails!
    If one looks at history , actually dance therapy and body movement work developed by guess what females totally squashed. Check out Trudy Schoop and her dance cohorts.
    These folks are just playing the game to look good and trying to gage the current and future times for ONLY their benefit.
    What I want, need and sometimes literally crave is a formal recognition of damage done, formal far reaching apology, and some kind of restorative justice for all of us harmed.
    Again IDK like the church and other institutions outside tribunal may be the only way to achieve any type of concrete change or reformation.
    Humans will always need support but this at least for me not support just horror though the kids in the s
    detention camps have it worse.And nothing is happening in terms of getting The Hague or UN involved.
    It seems we are frozen in any ability not only to speak truth to power but to have all these acts of abuse and torture stopped. There is some talk here and there but too much infighting, too much legitimate and no legitimate fear, and too many zombies in our midsts.

  • Again I come to the concept of further dialogue
    Terry Tempest Williams’s book “ Finding Besuty in a Broken World” has several chapters on the Rowandan genocide and life as it is. There are some powerful thoughts expressed on language and throughout the book.
    Survivor villages that still have ongoing multifaceted issues.
    And there are more places all over the world that this community could learn from and help.
    Maybe Survivor Global Networks.
    And in Africa as in other places one has to work with those who were once your enemies. One cannot amputate human beings. Though there have been times in my outrage I have thought not so peaceful thoughts.
    Check out pages270-271.

  • The concept of using label versus diagnosis is brilliant.
    The other aspect which Paula and others have not mentioned is the economic weight of so called diagnosis or labeling.
    In education and in the insurance world both public and private each label or fignistic entity carries financial weight.
    Institutions in order to make money or save money monitor this very closely.
    The other problem is there are legitimate medical disgnosises.
    I do not know how comfortable or uncomfortable folks are with legitimate medical labels.
    An amputee is an amputee there is no way around it though as traumatic as it is there some would say a great grief and period of real adjustment that could be life long. Depends because everyone is different.
    I would guess the issue that stands out for these folks is the concept of phantom limb pain.
    For along time it was not considered real. And some had it some not so like side effects of chemical treatment it had brought to the forefront of medical help.
    How did that process play out?
    The term chemo therapy should also be thought on. In its use side effects are considered real and some considered dangerous. Why such a divide?
    Chemicals are chemicals so any chemical given to humans should be termed chemotherapy implying not only real risk but real side effects.
    When folks move beyond stress to crisis or when one experiences altered mental states through substances or some experience there should be some lexicon. I have not figured out how to handle this.
    Then the poor to abusive treatment those of us who were in crisis or asked for help creates a new lexicon.
    Some folks got lucky and were helped but too many were hurt and though dealing with the double dipped situation has been difficult to say the least
    I find more support with the survivor concept than anything else. Walking through the fire seems to be the best metaphor. And that takes into account the time factor and back and forth recovery process.
    Ultimately metaphors and similes need to be agreed on throughout all the systems. That or a visual type of image.

  • Well Germany and the Allies did have the trials and there were massive educational programming. Scores of elementary schools were named for Sophie Scholl and Kathy Kollowitz. Corrie Ten Boom a Dutch Reformed Christian spent time in internment for helping out the Jewish folks in the Netherlands. Miep G. the same for the Frank Family. And yes they missed the genocide of the disabled and homosexual communities- the testing phrase learned from the Eugenic movement in the states and other countries.
    Soviet Russia had generations of all sort of pogoms. Which leader did which? Do which groups- changed with the decade. And any tyrant at any time look under the rugs and there it all is.
    But the trials did happen. Read Hannah Arndt.
    The Slave Trade in America – the North played a silent partner role.
    It ain’t never gonna be perfect but something needs to be done.
    The legislation though probably well intentioned – so many folks don’t know what they don’t know not best practice.
    Call your legislatures and do something. Check out the opioid action at the Met. They did it.

  • Well it is a start though I have concerns.
    Before policy there should have been and or a White House Conference on both Adult and Childhood Trauma, Congressional Hearings on Trauma to be real one would need to highlight First Nation Peoples Trauma, African American Trauma caused by institutional and non institutional racism, Trauma from Sexism, Tbe effects of Moral injury trauma due to First Responders and Safety and Protective Forces primary and secondary and tertiary trauma, the Trauma of Incarceneration All Systems ——see Charles Dickens writing about his travel to America and he knew trauma and incarceration,
    Intergenerational Trauma, the Trauma of Sexism and much more.

    A Blue Ribbon Panel Or White Paper or Rainbow Two Year nationwide Listening Sessions and then a Third Year report with professionals and non professionals involved.
    These activities should be funded by the Big Pharma Industry who deliberately and willfully let greed versus ethical considerations run their business plans.
    Also any companies or financial entities or other profit or nonprofit groups that have indulged in deliberate malfeasance.
    That or have a Nuremberg type of Trial.
    Policies and legislation no matter how well entioned will far apart fast if not backed up by a system wide learning and nationwide outing of the corruption that had almost destroyed our country.
    Kudus for trying but dialogue before planning.

  • Thanks but I wish I hadn’t had to be a witness of what was going on from both sides.
    I still have never had a chance to process all that has happened on both sides. I had a program for the children of clients and that was whisked away. Staff that were brought into run the program would come up and say it was wrong but what folks say as an aside and what they would say in front of admin folks are two different things.
    There also incidences while I was inside that were bizarre and so scary hard to talk about and even after the experiences with supposedly safe folks never able to be actually listened to and believed.
    I travelled some places and at one location the man opened the door and said ping she is here. Go figure. A month ago I was verbally accosted by a person down the long neighborhood block around the corner while I was walking.
    I just live day to day and hope I will find a place that is safe for me. Maybe.

  • Steve, supposedly you have been around as long as I have. Burnout was big in the early eighties and was trending toward its the system stupid but all of the stupids realized with the help of others that anytype of victim was trouble so in came the meds, incarceration, gerrymandering, redlining, and massive amnesia.
    Literally all agency meetings became explanations for how to play the cat and mouse game admin folks were playing with both state and federal agencies.
    It completely stopped being about the old term here you may have heard person in society.
    Any sense of social justice perspective or advocacy for others was out the door. It was all about money.
    Reg folk from the actual agency watchdog and other source of funding governmental and nongovernmental sources would go through record notes, yes folks your records were always seen on a random basis for compliance if the correct vocabulary were used and correct time spent ect ect the billable hour would be paid. If not the offending staff would be eventually through various ways and means be shown the door.
    Some MH agencies had a pharmacy tied to county or state. Many people were non compliant and I have never figured out how that system worked or didn’t work.
    Big Pharma came but not like in medicine. A lunch here a lunch there and if you were 50,000 in debt from college a free lunch is a free lunch.
    Funny how Big Pharma never was intelligent to use theirgrand expense accounts to offer a free meal to the community MH clients.
    There were some ground breaking programs but rife and fraught. And again good ideas and people were always beaten down- always.
    There should be a list of crimes committed and crimes for those actions that were deliberately and willfully not done that caused harm.
    Staff and former staff need to take on this. They know and many if not dead by vocation are retired.
    And the administrators off all systems and ilks- they bear the responsibility for committing and creating these crimes.

  • Alex, I am thinking of two ways. One some form of repetition and restorative justice. There could be two ways.
    One through the opioid crisis because guess who conned the medical system regarding pain? The same folks who gamed the MH field with false theories of Mental Illness is like diabetes.
    Some of the same Big Pharma folks were double dipping with both types of medications.
    If we could join class action suits somehow. But again they can see it with opioids so many don’t see for MH issues. Partly because some folks feel better. There is no paradigm.
    If one talks to 12 steppers they know some of the SSRI used for pain and they had to be really assertive in saying no this is addictive and I refuse to take it.
    The other is the gun control folks in that shooting survivors are know finding out the lead in the bullets and fragments left in their bodies are causing lead poisoning. Kind of a stretch but still. Many of the groups are more open to looking at systemic and gun industry and advertising issues rather than the proverbial “ crazy” person and then again there is much more to that narrative.
    The other way is to establish trauma centers. Mini Soteria Houses si to speak for all in the community. All of this is all human trauma so why not start the work for an eventual start?
    I hope for a White House Conference on Trauma and Congressional Hearings on Trauma but maybe in the future.
    We have to join together with all the victims of trauma and swallow some stuff stand strong on others things but if we see and after living life as it is now – we all are traumatized and there in might be the answer.

  • This is one of the hidden secrets of the MH industry. There is burnout and high turnover with poor working conditions and the benefits in some states meager.
    In one agency they had graphs of employees billable hours on the hallways. If you did not fill monthly requirements you were at risk for losing your job. Three months of not meeting the deadline and poof you are gone- no matter how good you were as a helper and support professional.
    Many staff take the same medications so it is literally so to speak the blind leading the blind.
    It was traumatic to work in many agencies due to one’s own stuff and then secondary and tererary trauma.
    How many clinical folks lost a client to suicide? That is a whole book in and of itself.
    Paperwork perfection was all that mattered to the administrators -many who never wanted or cared to work with humans in need.
    High turnover better financially.
    Draconian demands and poor everything else. So all the bad behavior and inhumanity could be from the dysfunctional system and those who decided to stay without awokeness.
    Double and triple whammy.
    If one thinks about it, the MH system a separate mirror and the client system a separate mirror reflecting back on and rerefecting all the shadowed dysfunctions to infinity and ad nausuem.
    One needs to step out or break the system of mirrors.

  • Yes Rachel that craving happened to me and looking back oh yeah my clients with their diet pop from morning until night.
    There must be a connection.
    Also blurry vision, that was the worst because I cut down on my driving and no medical profession ever ever explored how asa mother of a large family how could Icope with the driving and other stuff with the side effect of Parkininsom as well.
    It was a nightmare and the lost years at times are so painful to sit with. Somehow there needs to be a reckoning.
    And Lawerence for his truthfulness, worked in a bubble.

  • Lawerence , your explanation of the historical timeline fits my own perspective.
    However, when I was in crisis I could not debate with your peers who relied on psychophamacits who said if Lamictal worked she meaning me was Bipolar. She actually fired me for calling her right then and there and my mother pushed me to call not I because to actually is not playing by the rules but my mother had a disabled husband, and other crisises and hadn’t like myself been exposed to the brave new world of Pharma.

  • Elizabeth thank you for your story. Ian so sorry this was a nightmare for all of you in the family. Harm was done.
    I hope things go better and maybe some folks will be brave and admit Harm was done.
    Not all but many so called helpers were and are harmets for a wide layered reasons. We need to look at all of the system and stop the harming and hurting and abuse and yes st times the killing.
    If one is real and humble one welcomes investigation and evaluation and says this is where I think I blew it, this is what I don’t know. What do I need to make recompense?

  • Well yeah but they are recommitting the original sin- not going to those who have survived and the second layer which is separating themselves from being human and actively traumatized as humans living in this world. Then the third layer the difficult, moral harm done to those they tried to help by their ignorance.
    Until there is a true clearinghouse we all will be bogged down by separations.
    One of the psychiatrists I respected and there are some – not all are evil, he was a Vietnam vet and had a small disability. At clinical rounds- bad idea but okay it was there he would get in a discussion of cooking with the patient presented. Just an over the fence conversation. He got dissed but I really , really liked him for his ability to see a patient as an actual human being. And he was not perfect but he tried. And maybe errors and mistakes and misguided learning but who of all of us had not walked in those wrong foot shoes or untied shoelaces.
    Empathy needs to go all ways or the anger will become bitterness and then hostility and then hate and then voila moral harm.
    Keep the memory but don’t injest the outrage.

  • Stephan thank you for all of the historical information on First Nation forced residential treatment. I as usual, had no idea it was so horrorific. No way out. So many folks in your culture, in my culture with the Magdalene Laundries, in the deaf communities, and on and on.
    This is so important t know. I wish we had both rituals and sacred ground for all the forgotten human beings.

  • The key words are- “ as advocates of children and families mental health.”
    They should see and protest themselves as advocates for children and families.
    This idea had been around for a long, long time. Normal Schools actually highlighted social issues and some public school systems had Open Air Schools for medically fragile children with a nurse who did home visits and a physician and the surgeon currant health food of the day graham crackers and cream cheese.
    In the early 1980’s when child physical abuse was recognized but not sexual abuse there the beginnings of good hearted programs. Not that they were the best but essentially well meaning. They did not last because trauma and the concept of both macro and micro societal factors were never addressed.
    One local program was for identifying depression in teens. The father was a survivor but really really into the biopsych approach. It never got off the ground. Another was the idea of cutting in teens to teens. There was a more of a trigger event then solid help.
    It was like walking on the moon. So much was not understood and many tried things to quickly in ignorance.
    Not having access to the psych survivor history was a tragic and huge loss.
    There was much hidden from view.
    Title 1 reading programs incorporated both student and family support but the Social Work Staff were the first folks cut in school budget debacles.
    At that time, it was support and advocacy and never ever much about medication.
    This was also during the waves of desegregation and now looking back at the history of lynching I knew but honestly knew nothing about, no wonder kids did not want to go to school or the kids that did, the terror their families held in their hearts and heads.
    We the professionals and the government and the communities blew it big time and part of our suffering now as a nation is part and parcel of that tangled tragic history.
    Same for First Nation children who were forcibley moved to residential schools.
    I would like to think that psych survivors here and now can use our own tragic experiences to voice what so many children could and never did speak. We know.
    That maybe is true advocacy being a witness for not only ourselves and each other
    but all who encountered true abolition of human rights and dignity.
    It would be a door of hope if even beginning steps could be taken.

  • Actually how very sad that racism and othering were not stopped but continued to grow almost exponentially.
    I remember volunteering at a special needs classroom and the teachers were in awe that Semase Street had visuals of at least one Down Syndrome child. They also were truthful about Mr. Hooper’s death. And Maria’s pregnancy and her daughter’s birth.
    This was on the cusp of the debate on victim blaming and white men making correct and non correct assessments on African American culture and other cultures. The voices of so called others in the MH system became under attack and incarceration became the norm.
    The strains of colonialism, racism, sexism that were seeded from the start of the European movement over the ocean and First Nation folks had their own weaknesses but thrived until they and our immigrant ancestors arrived.
    It could have been the start of something evolutionary.
    Now Sessme Street is involved with cable and PBS stations are the second act.

  • Sera, thanks again for your thoughts. The two words frought and distraught come to mind. They overlap and become entangled in many interactions on both sides of the divide. Fear and then power and control issues rise up and those with the big stick win.
    Because I interact with various folks with a different set of life experiences than I , but once I was like them in the time before my internment in MH world I struggle to find vocabulary words.
    Educators need labels even if they don’t believe in them, the system does and thus turns the world and or our stomachs. We live in systems that are corrupt and other than dropping out which some of us do to varying degrees we all still have to cope with the stems we are enmeshed with. This is a good definition of enforced insanity.
    One way I have thought to upend the vocabulary paradigm is to think of all humans as a piece of sheet music. For those youngsters, sheer Music was once the hottest thing going say in the 1930’s.
    The sheets had the written music to a popular song or composer or singer, take your pick. If detached from the illustrated title cover one could if one was able to comprehend music put a snapshot to the type, kind of music, but also recognize it was a complete and separate identity of music composition.
    We are all separate pieces of sheet music but many of the professionals in any helping professions have not be taught the vobsbusry or how to score or write or read.
    One must understand history, the ancient music as well as current, the musical themes that rise in particular times. The ethnic- cultural of music, most cultures have percussion but how beautiful and how different from the bodhran to the steel drum.
    There is bass and cleft, patterns and empty space, there are chords and single notes, there are various beats and breaths. One can categorize but only for simplicity sake. To be a great work one does not have to come from anyplace or anywhere and even childre’s songs and lullabies have their own special place and magic.
    If we all could see and hear and acknowledge one another as human music compositions maybe there might be no need for fear and the words frought and distraught would only be used for reclaitrant music students who are not willing to learn.

  • Putting on my retired professional hat on, this is old stuff. If one looks up all the old journals of “ The Journal of Psychoanalytic Thought” or a similar title- every volume ended with a discussion on creativity. Freud and others like Nancy Anderson were obsessed with those folks that fell into the creative spectrum. In fact, I posit , they were in fact jealous as all get out that they did not have access to the creative gift. Not all but others were just admiring as all get out as well.
    Labels are only a snapshot and in the best sense a mere tool for discussion.
    Any other use is not helpful.
    We as humans all have our weaknesses and strengths and because we are a species who and what we are can fall into categories. Most male birds have bright colors. Most female birds are less colorful.
    Our differences as humans are our strength. Unfortunately, some folks want us all to fit into square peg holes. Never, ever gonna happen.
    What the writers should have focused on is the trauma in Leonardo’s life. Try being an illegitimate son in 1600 Italy!
    Try to live life with some of your so called art patrons being corrupt families who not only have government power but also great influence in religion and are known to poison enemies. Just that life fact would make even the most brilliant human dart here and there at times seemingly without focus.
    He also went to the ends of branches in his work. He examined dead bodies to gain clearer understanding of the human body.That did not buy him power or influence. There is of course more but I will let everyone do research for themselves.
    The only thing I struggle with is how to talk about human beings. When a co-worker used the special needs phrase for her child, I was unable to speak with her more. Was it a wall? Did she want me to ask questions?
    As an LD person never diagnosed in childhood , I did it myself with newspaper articles. It is there no denying but I am more than LD but my guess is it helps to have the ability to converse. And so many folks are gobsmacked by LD stuff but everyone claims to know about all the psych labels. Go figure that great evolution.
    And as a former therapist, if I ever encountered a Da Vinci it would be for support. Looking back at history only shows your own idealigical prejudice if one is not awoke.

  • This research makes me want to cry. The wheel of Adolescence care has already been invented but banished to the dustbin and landfills to make good and sure any good would be totally forgotten. Thanks so much folks whoever you are. Job well done! It will take another generation for old stuff to be found on archeological digs and new support for new Adolescent paradigms for care.
    Back in the day, there actual oh my! Adolescent Units with kids and teens from every medical department under the sun. All mixed together.
    Back in the previous day, Dr Peter Blos and Dr Peter Blos Jr wrote extensively on this era of childhood transition and nope no bio psychiatry at all, at all.
    There were issues of all kinds but again coming from both inside and out side- I would have given my eye teeth to have been placed in an unit like the Adolecent Unit I worked on or in some of the therapeutic mileu places.
    One of the weaknesses was the young staff almost peers but not and substance abuse on both sides
    If a survivor approach would have been taken maybe better care.
    And trauma- Staff was suppose to be cool and in control. Not really at times, because trauma we all deal with it.

  • Okay, glad to see the research and discussion but again we have layers of concern. If one lives in substandard housing and one lives in fear of shootings by all aspects of society how can a child really learn? This is over and above the components of life in the ACE study.
    Also ACE is really an inter generational nexus. It ain’t just the patient in the office, the child acting out in school, the father in jail, the substance addicted helping professional in all areas, the clergy, the legal professionals who have chosen greed over ethics, it is all of us.
    Until we see humanity as in great distress as the environment and earth crisis without resolution will continue.
    We all have different weaknesses and strengths and so many folks need to wake up- the canaries are in trouble.

  • This the study of TBI, should be a standard course in the first year medical and other medical field related professions.
    There is neuroplascity but the underlying history of traumatic brain injury has been completely ignored by Psychiatry.
    Sports, car accidents, falls, all could possibly make one have issues that could be easily misinterpreted as so called crazy. Add to that ECT is TBI in reverse. Go figure that one out.
    The crux is psychiatry has missed multiple balls on multiple levels throughout its history but since the advent of Big Pharma it has lost its center- though I know some here would say it never had a moral core.
    I still say despite my own patient malpractice since I worked in the field beforehand there were some who had a caring core and some may still be around.
    The question how to handle the human being either in distress and or living in a state that is on or beyond the cultural borders. So far we as a species have failed except for those eras when there were better cultural supports and even in more open indeginious cultures there were and are issues.
    Back to the drawing board for all healthcare.

  • PD, Eve Ensler has just come out with new writing on trauma and recovery. One event had Glenn Close who did an anti stigma campaign on labeling but missed the mark. It was as a helpful family member not psych surivivor.
    Eve writes the apology she would have liked to hear from her father if he had seen the so called light of his parenting actions – which were really abusive in multiple ways.
    The discussion here as been lovely in terms of using a vocabulary that enables hard and painful dialogue.
    The parents especially mothers who are the ones to hold together everything with sometimes little or no community support and sometimes the support that is there takes along while sometimes to find one has been snookered and snickered.
    The group of support for multiples was more a money raiser than help. PTA a true grapevine – one has to pretend everything is just perfect, just perfect and then alone who do you blame? And if there are other issues? And if one really talks to other parents – yes we have at one time or another crossed the red line. And as mothers we bear the responsibility of seeing fathers verbally or physically berate our sons or I guess daughters and we become frozen. Trauma over and under and between and inside and below and above.
    For the mother with the son- I apologize I can’t recall and get your name.
    Kabul Gibran – are Children are not ours- arrows beyond us.
    Thanks to all for the words.

  • What might be an interesting construct to investigate is the character from “Alice in Wonderland.”
    The Mad Hatter was based on reality. Folks who worked in military factories became irrational and endured altered states. It was eventually discovered the chemicals used in the factory process were the cause.
    I find this haunting especially in our world. So much exposure so many suppressed and or uninvestigsted issues of altered mental states. Trauma is one layer but only one of many.

  • Good to sex abuse trauma brought up on this website.
    When one has been traumatized it can take years or never come out.
    One of my strongest issues with the psychiatric fields is the cover up and blatant disregard for the area of trauma. WWI soldiers were needed to return back to battle so the British Military became trauma recovery experts. The poet/ soldiers that survived were complimentary of their treatment.
    Many other writers wrote from their trauma after the war. Then trauma was forgotten though the negative societal issues continue to implode and transmute. Vets were part of the Black and Tan forces sent to Ireland. It did not go well. Moral injury over and between more moral injury.
    Sex abuse although not quite the same as veteran trauma but intertwined because of colleteral damage of civilians part and parcel at times.
    Children are so much more vulnerable and so less able to speak. No language but a cry truly.
    My best guess is that psychiatric professions misdiagnosed trauma victims as various labels including so called dkizophrenia. If one would study any case histories of WW1 of vets treated same symptoms of clusters with a non trauma related label now.

  • Thanks you. You had a much different experience than I had. I supervised a social work student who my own supervisor refused to work with because she was out with her status.
    Living in an area with many medical and academic institutions the peer movement was almost nonexistent. The one state peer group disbanded.
    I guess in my journey I am still caught in the abuse that occurred and lack of any ongoing peer contact that fits for me. Everything is NAMI based everything.

  • Ron, interesting thoughts but I disagree. There are those two paradigms but you have totally ignored the most important paradigm abuse.
    As a LISW with twenty years of social work in areas of children and adults and families and trauma of all kinds, and in the MH system inside and outside and with experiences with the old state institution system. There are places field students were NOT ALLOWED to go into I know medical malpractice and abuse when I see it, even if I was zonked out of my mind and dealing with life trauma not of my own making.
    I was severely traumatized by the so called treatment from friends taking it into their own hands you need a shrink and calling on my mother who was dealing with my terminally ill only sister and her three small children ect ect ect and saying YOU NEED MEDICATION never once allowing me the gift of oh she ‘s got her hands full but I trust her to ask for help if she needs it. And I never would have chosen a public park system to confront a person dealing with nonlocus of control events. A letter if you really felt the need to become involved would have been hah! the sane thing to do. And then calling my mother with names and phone numbers of shrinks was just the beginning of my years of total disaster.
    And then to have the majority of the so called professionals not to treat that trauma or ask about other non locus of control life events borders on cruel and unusual punishment or I would even venture to say torture.
    Whether a survivor self identifies with recovery or with the idea of a pride movement – whatever works to get you through life. And I would not expect folks to be in one Camp or the other or some may have arms and legs in different streams, again whatever works.
    Restorative Justice. And if one knows anything about it – not perfect and one can never take back the disaster years but a formal apology, a clearing of the diagnosis or diagnoses would be a kind of benchmark to begin with.
    I also suggest you read about anti- facits and Marxist’s in Vichy France who were at risk of internment or prison. Some never recovered.And when I was in an Unit it was more internment than anything else. Some prison systems the ones that are not in the south or made for abuse actually have kitchens, and libraries, and outside time ie The Shawshank Redemption. Club Fed as well.
    This is not the time for thought experiments in paradigms but thanks for your effort. Another time maybe?

  • Michael, I appreciate your writing but ah not quite what I have been hoping for from professionals.
    You and the others choose to stay in the system and I don’t know if you shared your own experience with altered states or not. My guess is you did not? Not clear and as the system was getting more restrictive and more Pharma based what did you do? When folks reported abuse did you do anything to change the system or really could you?
    Did you contact the county or state officials? Did you ever try to find peers that really were like you in past experience?
    My sense of things before my forced time in system was folks who divulged their past were stigmatized not maybe in from but from behind.
    I am looking to move and going through stuff. I am going to share a letter I found- an apology from a high school friend. Unasked for but decent.
    This is 15 year old male teen who lived in a blue collar neighborhood, father dead and life not that easy. I was more upscale but very learning disabled and on the fringe of life- part but not parcel.
    This is the next step.
    Dear-
    I know I’ve been a real pain in the…..neck. And I know I have done some stupid things. All I can say is that I’m really sorry. I hope you will forgive me and still think of me as your friend.
    4 sentences. It does not take much.
    We have lost the art of this and fear rules the day in terms of any type of restorative justice. Responsibility even when ah 39% or 89% not my fault.
    Georgetown University is muddied and muddy but it’s out there and the river is running through it’s slave ownership history.
    My one relative ran a part of a medical research tri- part community for ALL involved. She dealt with families and she was bowled over by their desperation to find ANYTHING that would help. She was amazed with the patients. She liked and admired some of the professional staff, others not so much. But she gave all equal footing.
    This is what we survivors need equal footing to be heard and the freedom not to live in fear so that we can speak.

  • LS yes I agree wholeheartedly.
    But PD is where she is and ah we as me , myself, all are dealing with being on a sometimes enforced trauma journey, sometimes a it seemed a good idea at the time journey and the rage of accepting what has happened to us in loss is a bumpy road of traveling. Sometimes we get pebbles or stones, sometimes an oasis of support here and other places. Dialogue especially using this online type of tool is not easy. We do not have eye contact , we do not have an implicit learned 5 second delay. I think the old idea of Tabla Rasa holds here. Sometimes , we write from the emotion in the forefront of our souls with no holds barred and that can be a good or it can be hurtful or mean. I certainly have done it and I apologize. I am trying hard to incorporate into my cognition a five second or maybe two minute warning posting.
    But since we are witnesses to or survivors of or experiencing several different levels of trauma – it just not easy but Alex and others have shown a light down a path we all most design for ourselves. Disagreements are part of life and learning how to handle them in kindness an Art.

  • Ann , your story and your mother’s was hard to read but glad you wrote it and shared.
    Medicine really ignores the female and I really wonder what really is going on in female bodies. I also wonder about trauma and stress in our bodies and in pregnancy.
    I would suggest you look into your parent’s family histories to see if that played a role in both how your father handled things and how your mother felt about pregnancy.
    There are so many silences in the female world about this area and the medical world has greatly illserved families by their chemical interventions.

  • This was interesting and a worthwhile read especially about the Maori.
    On the discussion of childhood and parenting- sometimes the issues were difficult with I would guess integenerstional trauma which was discussed briefly and no good systemic way of helpful interventions. I am thinking of my mother’s friend who had a very rambunctious child. As she was talking on the phone she would describe what was going on/ he’s hanging from the chandelier now, he’s ……… I also experienced this with a friend of my own age different behavior but what to do?
    I am not sure if this child of my mother’s friend was the same one who on his own went to explore an empty house without telling anyone and was found dead three days later from a fall in the house.
    The trust that folks put in the helping professions and systems has been broken in small and large ways. Marian Wright Elderman ‘s Children Defense Fund idea should be broadened to all our communities and at all levels of society. Rambunctiousness can be a sign of future greatness and we all deserve to have our own owners get supported and when needed helped out.

  • Don , glad to hear your voice. I am very leery of any social media these days. But if you feel it works for you, great.
    PD. Your thoughts are important but I am going to say one needs to merge with other causes that touch on your own. Politics can make strange bedfellows and one most always be aware of what is liable to happen underneath the covers.
    In our country, we now have children and or families held and experiencing much of what we survivors have experienced in a similar but different realm.
    If we all in our various viewpoints consolidated around helping these people out it would be a win / win situation. No politician or founder or professional can understand their experiences – but we can. If we help then we can gain legitimacy for or own past histories. And then our voices cannot but helped but to be acknowledged.
    And fighting for another cause sometimes is just less triggering and can energize instead pull one down in the crap.
    I think PD this is what happened in the femanist beginnings. They fought against the instituting of slavery and then realized oh there are other forms of slavery as well. But the anti slavery campaign gave females a field to begin to gain creedence.
    And we are still fighting for equality for females and other gender issues, and on and on for racism and environmental issues and there is an infinite number I fear at times. But something to focus on and get out of one’s own pain. But maybe a way forward with a possibility of real change and more than just small pats on the head and a treat or two.
    And maybe pick a cause any cause and walk into it and or then at a good time – I know this because I have experienced being held without freedom to leave and then maybe the fruit will be ripe to be picked.

  • Robert, what can I say here?
    You are spouting old stuff here behind the curtain of an accomplished Social Work career.
    However,
    You knew when you entered Social Work, it would not be what administration level you would achieve but how high could you manage playing the political game. You were male and you were white. You did well.
    Most folks here are unaware that Social Work originated with mostly white rich women but not all, not all. Emma Lazurus of the Statue of Liberty fame was one I would guess – who just began working in the tenements. Jane Addams and others pushed to get it recognized as a real profession. And then 1960’s?the administration role went almost all male. There were some females in my time but the stats screwed male.
    I think in the 1930’s and later some of the male social workers left for other professions, in the legal and medical realms. For awhile, in my era, there were JD/MSW degrees but that would create problems maybe?
    What I suspect you know and what you write here I would guess are two different things- the washed laundry hanging outside or the dirty laundry hidden in the attic with the dead skeletons.
    These are the topics I would hope we could get from you if you decide to climb down and unzipp the curtain and pull out the hidden laundry and finally get it washed and bury the dead with all due dignity and respect.
    1) Sex abuse of clients in all the associated agencies. This happened with the entire spectrum off staff. Not all agencies, and not all staff who worked in any agency. It is still a verboten topic but it is there and it is time for it to come out.
    And yes, one never knew who, what, when, where, and how until one stumbled upon it by hook or by crook but it is and was an issue.
    2) Impaired professionals. Whether through trauma- primary, secondary, or tertiary experiences it is there and so often not treated fairly.
    Substance abuse issues. How to handle and what really are the stats here?
    3) How to handle abuse and neglect by unliscenced staff members in institutions or agencies, or group homes for those who are deemed through age or disability as unable to care for oneself?
    And again, trauma plays a very large role here. Any caretaking can cause burnout or I would say secondary or tertiary trauma and how staff to the janitor and cooks are treated portends how the clients are treated. Abuse and neglect can be very much top down problems.
    4) Inability for the Social Work profession and perhaps others to own their own life traumas and own life recovery episodes. Why does one go into Social Work and in particular areas- we all have narratives that link us to our own or other life stories. Let’s tell them and not hide them. My best guess is that one of my respected Social Workers of all , worked with traumatized mothers for a reason- there was a need in her or a need in me that created a desire and yes sometimes a good deed or two because of that narrative.
    5) Use of Peers and Volunteers in agencies. This maybe probably should not be combined but both populations seem to have been poorly used at times. Again the concept of Famy Therapy or Organizational Theory or the old proverb about the fish head rotting first. Maybe not you since you have written here but I don’t know your state or locale so maybe there still is some sort of honor code in the so called Mental Health professions.

    6) In my times in the system as a person supposedly in need – I was pushed in and did not walk into it because so called friends were concerned and had no idea I was actively getting support for the traumas in my life but they took it upon themselves not only to intervene in my own agency but to intervene in my husband’s and mother’s.
    They also had no idea of my professional knowledge base and that I would never ever do to a client or human being what they did to me.
    And the worst part was I sustained serious trauma from their interventions and actions and the treatment was just as damaging or worse. I found out often in life if something happened to me I am usually not alone
    7) And my guess is trauma is not the end all or entire issue. There are so many possibilities in our world for people to enter altered states.
    So in light of all this, I request you and others in positions of power to wade in the wasters and get off the boats you all are riding.
    Create a paragraph of “ I have stains on my hands ect…
    Create bridges instead of walls.
    Create truth not more baggage.
    And please read RFK’s address to the folks on the night of MLK Jr’s death.
    There were no acts of violence in that city, the only city in the nation not to be affected by traumatic violence.
    It can be accomplished. You all have st least one example.Make it so.

  • It was an interesting part of your memoir to read, thanks Julie.
    They used to be aware and talk about Lithium Toxicity but I haven’t heard folks use this phrase.
    I experienced it – confusion, loose bowels, and instead of being medically treated was placed in seclusion and then transferred to the highly monitored back unit where aides were paid to chart our movements.
    It wasn’t until I obtained my records that I saw Lithium Toxity written over another diagnosis and the plan was for nursing home placement. An aide mentioned it to me.
    This hospital was part of the multinational alaphabet soup corporation that has taken over many of the orginislly small psychiatric institutions. Most of my professional colleagues left after they saw what was happening.
    You should write a Manuel for folks and for their families.
    The whole pediatric bipolar stuff in my mind is or borders on child abuse or neglect. I never thought I would ever have to say that. It just doesn’t make any sense except for profit.
    And again- where are the professional vpiices here?
    We still are in echo chamber land.

  • And Ann where is your voice here?
    This thread is symbolic of one of the many issues we all as a world are dealing with.
    In the light of all of the blogs of abuse and medical malpractice there still is no professional voice of apology. And there’s the rub isn’t it? In our litegeous society this could prove problematic but since Hugh and Ann are in their senior years maybe not so much?
    When they were young there was Heinz Kohut a WWII refugee who came to the states and developed Self Psychology – the best to come out was therapy as bike riding. It was quickly quashed.
    The onus of working with insurance companies and yes I did as well is still part and parcel of the dialogue that has not been addressed. Adult Adjustment Disorder but they would only make payments for 10 visits or so and thus up the annuity to a different label with more payments.
    The other route to go was private pay but two issues – elitist and what about abuse and neglect issues? Very dicey!
    And what about Social Justice?
    Again white therapists talking about what seems fairly well off clients.
    If you are both going to own nonauthartarianism then be real and honest and take full responsibility.
    And where are the comments from Ann and Hugh and others on the psych survivors’s blogs?
    Again rampant discrimination.
    There is nothing wrong with admitting error or mistakes from either ignorance or really bad idea.
    Mistakes are how humans learn.
    Unfortunately, we have lost the ability to truth for the base needs of greed and profit. And we all are paying the price.

  • The academic jargon and kowtowing to the academic world creates walls to those in mh systems, those survivors of said systems, and the general folks on the street.
    They need to honor and boldly hold the voice of the survivors in their circle or it will all be lost. All together or not.
    They also before doing this need to recognize, accept ,hear the damages inflicted on those who sought help or were forced or prodded to “seek help.”
    One cannot change until the elements of abuse and neglect and violations are acknowledged and amends made.
    One way to look at the system is a ritual gone rotten. This takes on the whole history of caring for others.
    “ It takes a ritual to repair a failed ritual. It also takes a person directly responsible for the failure to right the wrong. Acknowledgement of error is not error…….”
    Ritual
    Power, Healing, and Community
    Malidoma Patrice Some

  • Andrea Dworkin’s femanist writings on abuse and rape fit well into the anti- psychiatry movement. Women were not believed. All Our Trials by Emily L. Thurman takes onacurrent and broader view on female incarceration.
    Violence against any human. We see this with the weapons industry and other corrupt entities with a full out repression of truth and facts.
    There actually is a psychiatrist that sees racism and inequality as factors writing out of Vanderbilt. Go figure.
    We have to deal with crime victims, we have to deal with the human tragicomedy of life in war, and poverty and history so there will ALWAYS be that.
    But the systems as it is now and has been – no.
    There needs to be a quashing of DSM and the creation of a process of being unlabeled. Even with HIPPA – if you give a medical professional a list of meds you are on – dead in the water.
    SSD status – red flag and oh my if the police come to your house.
    Also the stoppage of mental health checks by safety forces. There are ways and there are ways to talk about fears of a person in crisis. And then the ER portal. Both present options are no win situations and not help.

  • I was not able to read the blog. As a retired LISW and a psychiatric survivor I am put off by one therapist talking with another. This is another co option of psych survivors and other folk’s personal narratives for mental health professionals fame and profit or publishing rights. At least this is how I have come to view the books and ect.
    It’s a sticky wicket and I think we need dialogue.
    The other issue is we psych survivors have no diagnostic label expungement process as our fellow citizens do with legal crime past labels.
    If we could dialogue as in a round table yes.

  • PacificDawn, wow I like your comments but sometimes disagree. Your bringing up of the feminist perspective is right on target. Yes but or maybe and so……
    Andrea Dworkun seems to fit in here as well as Andre Lorde and Kate Millet and somehow the kids of Parkland especially the young female who said so beautifully “ I call BS.”
    Although Andrea was a feminist she also acknowledge – hey I like those male writers- to her great loss. She lost out on the support of other feminists because she deigned to say yeah Joyce was a good writer.
    Same in the movements here. Sometimes folks on the so called other side have good thoughts.
    One needs to realize in Nazi Germany there were folks who tried to take down Hitler. And there was Schindler and Walkenberg and Corrie Ten Boom. And oh Kathe Kollowitz.
    Name a time, place, and group and yes even as Nero fiddled I would bet my life there were some folks who said this is f’d and tried to do what they could. Emphasis on tried and what they could do.
    Keep on posting! And keep on, on the journey. Bilbo Baghins poem-/ The Road Goes On and Tolkien WWI vet all his brigade simply totally disappeared fighting in the trenches. He got lucky getting sick and evacuation. Orcs are Trauma based.

  • This as been a very interesting thread to read. The historical aspect of the history of survivors is so important. It needs an almost horizontal graphic timeline to show when and where what happened over the last say 60 years.
    I was not surprised about the article not being perfect. It was what I expected under the circumstances.
    The artistic community is so invested in the use of the system for support.
    One forgets that T. S. Eliot and others broke down and then recovered and lived their lives. Not sure of the extant of involvement he had but especially since his first wife had terrible issues but he had his own and managed.
    Almost every artist creates from seeds or a seed of trauma. And how to deal with trauma?
    Do we a witness to hear our story?
    Do we need a tool box?
    Since trauma has a human bodily component what is it is not possible?
    And do witnesses to folks in trauma need support as well?
    Dialogue though slow and imperfect is the only way to go and I think one of the better ways if we are starting to not think and just feel to have tools to use so that we can opt out and then rejoin the dialogue.
    And yes emotions are part and parcel of being human. We as a species have never figured out fantastic ways of coping with all of them and if we do find a tool or two damn the powers that be snatch them up and hide them or worst of all use the tools for their own nefarious forces.
    I would like to see side by side work.
    So each group can do their best to be heard and deciminate the most powerful needed to be heard information.

  • I really appreciate the process of journey you went through , Sandy.
    There should be some sort of ethical framework for journalists in how to write on disability issues and a thorough and solid understanding taught in every journalism and or creative writing school on the whole world of disibties and civil rights, and ADA, and a deep understanding of the world history.
    At one time, my local paper had a column about disability and I think she had her own story with the disability world which if one is truthful we all have.
    The word skizophrenic is a firework word. There is so little understanding and so much FEAR.
    There needs to be a dialogue and folks journalists, politicians, clergy, neighbors, relatives need to admit and own up to the fear.
    Yeah as in Alex’s story the journalist should have admitted to being afraid to talk to him instead of acting out his fear and dropping the opportunity to do good journalism.
    It would help to have disabled journalists of all ilks in every journalistic medium or for them to acknowledge it.
    Also if writers or journalists use people’sstories and profit off them there needs to be a form of reimbursement to the individual folks and one also has to acknowledge having one’s story come out can have both positive and negative effects and what to do about the negative effects?
    I would like to read about you and your uncle and the relationship. The uncomfortable parts and the comfortable parts.
    And the dx part which has done such great damage that needs to be addressed.
    And trauma and how we as as a world and society deal with all of its multifaceted layers.
    How did and why did your uncle get labeled? And what was the real story ?

  • Julie, I was glad to see your writing posted and really liked it and knowing your comments helped put a lot in context for me.
    Since I was in the profession and still are around folks who have different beliefs I have had to agree to disagree but your account is helpful for others to read in that other framework.
    The historical account of the changes in treatment yes! Some would say prison is still prison with pianos but at least there was an outlet if nothing else.
    I really liked your kudos to your parents. I still remember my parents picking me up at the horrorific day treatment program and wanting just to cry because the whole situation was so f’d up and I couldn’t figure a way out.
    And it is like an itch one wants to keep scratching there has to be SOMETHING and many times there just isn’t.
    I went to grad school on the east coast and literally it was my therapist says this my therapist says that.And I knew folks who were in until their therapist died.
    Again whatever works for folks but that requires money and hours and hours and I tried but so much focus on self.
    As an LISW, I told folks my job is to put myself out of business.And they were in the navigator ‘s seat and I was there for support and advice when really really stuck.
    No therapist I saw ever used those words or ideas with me. No one.
    The portrayal of NAMI. For many, it’s the only support out there.
    Your story is one facet of a very large prism.

  • Hi Cindi, thanks for writing this. Marci’s story is hard for me on several levels. So I will try to support in a way that is safe for me.
    I would suggest trying to find a MH professional who is very well acquintated with Selma Frauberg’s University of Michigan parenting work with mothers. Old but I know in the 1980’s there was an effort to get a directory by U of M with all the programs using her work. For those who don’t know she figured out parents engage with children via their own trauma and then problems happen so trauma based. Not sure if in this day and age any exist but having that background and then having a background that acknowledges the negative side effects that would cause an altered state in a mother – I wish there could be that professional. That perspective is key. In the program I worked in- meds were rarely used. She needs a professional that knows both inside and out.
    As a former person in system I would suggest Marci pick her battles with the unit staff. They carry the keys. And no matter how one feels about them and how they act they still carry the keys.
    It sounds like she has fallen into a viscous battle and there ain’t no way she is going to win by keeping up the fight.
    Been there, done that.
    Make the staff your friend. Give complements. And it ain’t easy and phew but it seems to be the only way out of her problem.
    One almost has to think of it as a strategy in and of itself. She can think whatever she wants in her head but keep it in her head.
    Folks in internment camps, concentration camps, prisons, all created coping strategies for living without any power and control.
    It can be done.
    My best guess is that she is a trigger for staff. Any parent has stories of almost sand what ifs and then knowing what I know or guess about staff they might be on the same chemicals she was on and wow internal emotional conflict.
    Another legal strategy is maybe civil right or something in that if staff is compromised how can they fairly treat a patient? Just a thought.
    Please let her know she is not alone and has support.

  • Stephan,yes I understand so well. And we who live in layers of Venn diagram life are burdened by what we knew and what we now know.
    I still would say there are always good folks but how, what , when, where, are always random occurrences. I have stories from the older generation of helpers like yours and myself though different paradigms but the sorrow remains the same.
    Barbara Kingsolver’s words from” Poisonwood Bible” are so helpful forgive yourself. Those of us that cared no matter how imperfect did things with what we thought was the best we could do. We are all time bound and knowledge bound.
    This is why I try to walk in kindness even with my anger because one day a person might see the light.
    When acts are done in nefarious and hurtful ways – a whole different story. And any – any institution not only have their weakness but there evils.
    The one thing my local paper once did right was to publish an anonymous op/ed from a doc trying to do amends.
    All professionals need this type of outlet.
    Sometimes, I would like to contact folks but I don’t know.
    Again having places of refuge or repair of trauma could do a wall of amends for folks.
    We could do so much- my greatest frustration.

  • When C Henry Kempe a German Post WWII immigrant “ discovered” the medical diagnosis of child abuse I do not think he ever imagined the system we have today.
    One needs to do a thorough and deep deep dive into the entire history of childhood and human development. The concept of children and wives as chattel. The institution of slavery of all kinds, throughout the world past and present.
    There were always moments of wokeness but always battered down and since the early eighties any advancement seems to have been drowned.
    I think the word genocide in terms of child welfare is not too harsh.
    And this is Child Welfare in all strata of American society. Being born in the 1 % is no guarantee of not being exposed to sexual abuse or other forms of child abuse as in neglect.
    One of the things that bothered me both as a mother and helping professional is the fact that child counselors are not required to ask permission to see a child in school. The carte blanche aspect is not best practice. There needs to be a total reworking of how to help children who are or have been in trauma life situations- a new and ethical paradigm.

  • Tim, good efffort but you are a babe in the woods.
    Why were you not taught of self advocacy in classeork? Professionals wonder why there are walls instead of bridges at times here on this site and in real life and part is the professionals miseducation and ignorance – not their fault but easy targets for our anger.
    The lack of dialogue commentary and the lack of here I am I want to help makes the walls much stronger than not. Also the admission I have been tbrough stuff. One doesn’t have to vomit but it helps to build trust and compassion the two building machines that break down walls.
    And self advocacy – failures and fear here. Also memoirs or telling your story to have used by someone else for their own profit- dicey stuff and I am unsure about all of that and my best guess – table it until other things happen.
    Self Advocacy also means self labeling.
    I was at a library and there was a big display on rape. Okay good to highlight but there are all sorts of rape with all genders and this was one gender based with only one source of help and it has the word rape in the agencies name.
    So like Tim here, babes in the woods.
    Survivors need to be at the table just like the idea behind the Paris Peace Talks.
    Until that happens self advocacy is compromised.
    The other issue is the folks behind the curtains the founders of all types and tropes. Until and when their voices are only part and parcel we will still be othered and marginalized even if we have the knowledge base to help change things in a better direction.
    One of my relatives had a brilliant idea for donations. They weren’t entirely awoke but their idea was to ask the agency what was really needed. Of course in a perfect world the task force of agency participants would be the go to voice to be heard. Someday.

  • I agree and it is one layer of many. Lots of professions hide the information, just like sexual abuse. A kind of global Catch 22 moment for all of us.
    Pat Conroyb wrote about the issues in military families so well and in himself contained the damage of trauma unresolved, though he tried hard to overcome all of it.
    I go back to the need for Trauma Centers and what hadn’t been discussed in depth prevention.
    The concept of working hard for the future in all areas of life, environmental, nutrition, ism reduction in all areas, education and human interactions.
    Just a full throttle beginning action would begin to alleviate the need for why bother with life assessment.
    What enraged me, is not that we don’t have the capacity or wealth it is the greed, selfishness, and willful ignorance of the people who literally could change the world but don’t and stand by worried about nonessentials while all of us are barely making it. In terms of epigenetics, we, if we survive, are creating more inter generational trauma in layers of past and current historical trauma.
    Anything that can change folks perceptions is great. With Laura’s piece I had no great expectations so was very pleased they didn’t pull “ A BeautifulmMind “ enforced lie.

  • I think John that with the forum we have here- it is very difficult to go into your life as it is for you now. You are reaching out here and seem to have some very spot on thinking with our American history. You also seem to be in distress and I and probably others can’t help you with all of it.
    I know when I was literally lost in anxiety due to trauma and who knows what else I had and still at times have a sense of not only all is not well but something is way off kilter.
    And most of us here would say duh but that is our world our individual lives are so unique. And we process our lives especially after trauma in different ways. I do not have a good sense of your life now just feel that every day is hard.
    When I was tangled in trauma old and new the best way to get myself through was the simple act of checking my body. Am I able to move my fingers and toes?
    Can I breathe? Can I move my knees and elbows?
    Can I scribble on a pad?
    CanI walk?
    Can I sit?
    We are unable to see your life as you live it but those are some simple things I did when things were really bad for me.
    My situation got better but is still hard.
    I just learned how to endure with life as it is. Nothing made sense, nothing seemed to get better.
    I am living a life option z. Not what I had hoped for in terms of life. Many of us and most humans are.
    One has to go second by second minute by minute. And if writing helps – go for it. I hope for better days for you.
    You are smart and perceptive and some of us share the same memories of the shift in the country. Dwelling on all that – I don’t know how helpful since the daddy’s are still ongoing. Again minute by minute. My latest thought there are only so many worms in a can of worms. They are of a limited quantity!
    Thinking very small and acting in small ways. Folks do this in psych units. If nothing else one learns to keep going though not the keep going one dreamt of but whatever works for the moments.

  • Hi there Johnchristine,
    Sounds like this spot really was traumatic for you. I am sorry that you have had such a very difficult time. It never should have happened and it is not fair.
    TD symptoms are awful. I developed Parkinsonism. Bad enough.
    And I have heard folks relate how their parents pathologized them and none of the professionals were able to see through the actual truth.
    Ohio used to have an Empowerment Coalition but no more. I have no idea what happened or why or where they are now. I think the website is still up.
    There are other places in the country to move to though even globally it seems things are hard.
    I found Tai Chi, yoga, walking, reiki, art, music helpful things to do in community or online.
    Start doing some research and check all things out there may be some help.
    Reading if you can, on the neuroleptic reading was difficult and my ability to read as I did has been compromised but hard to say because of feeling anxious or lingering affects of treatment.
    OMT in my old church community with the ladies guild there was a woman who for years ran what they called the sunshine commity- she would keep her ears to the ground and eyes above the horizon for anyone that might need a card to be sent for a variety of reasons.
    It was small and simple but when oneis in hardship even a little bit helps
    One of the hard things for me is to hear folks pain and what does MIA have responsibility for?
    We all are people of the Great Human Trauma and even if the nonidentified or professionals do not identify as such with those of us who do I bet my life they are part and parcel- either they are in denial or they for whatever reason are not able to admit to whatever.
    One human cannot go through ten years of life without experiencing trauma and trauma can be living the life of the idle rich different than poverty or abuse but one can have millions and without love really what can any human become?
    It would be nice someday to have some sort of way to cope with the pain of some of the articles.
    It seems folks are trying very hard but maybe some sunshine in a very small way might help.

  • I stand corrected – knew it just didn’t put it down.
    I still can’t go all out but I can enumerate and detail the abject awfulness of much of psychiatry.
    Until we come up with a way to handle trauma in a better way there is not much – unless you have lots of money to recover from rape, some types of military service, parenthood, substance abuse and there currently no systemic change agents on all the isms of present and past times. No restorative justice at the present time and with legal entities being so terribly prejudiced no way to sue for true and real medical malpractice.
    And yes, much of the so called left bought and drank the cool aid of medication thanks to those at the medical advertising hall of fame. Yes it’s real and what great humans and humanitarians. Dr Salk and Sabin are so proud of you all!
    And neuroadvertising- brilliant name and truth so there is that aspect as well.
    Lobsters starting cooking in tepid water – all of us.
    If neurologists had better personalities maybe they could do what Lee suggests. One really doesn’t need a MD degree just the educational background and awareness and the capacity to heal in the best sense of the word.

  • Some thoughts. Lee’s talking points on what entails an interview are spot on. As far as my experience has been as a professional and then so called patient after 2001 there were no trainings in any type of interviewing and much historical information was lost or quashed.

    My thoughts for all the professionals I saw where really? really ? you are trained professional? My developmentally disabled relative could do a better job in the area of compassion and narrative techniques.
    Alex’s take on attorney’s yes but I would extend that to any profession today the old adage a few bad apples is reversed there are a few good apples and when you are lucky to meet them you want st least I do- kiss the ground they walk on.
    Since I have myself in so many places and groups- a living Venn diagram – I thought of a new way of thinking about the anti stuff.
    Slavery- the abolitionists couldn’t just make it go away until the Emancipation Proclamation. It existed on a minute by minute basis. They couldn’t stop the separating of families, the abuses, and the inflection of trauma that some folks knew would take generations to resolve.
    And then when it did come – it continued though in a more concealed and more heinous? way with the Restoration and Jim Crow life.
    There are many ways to be a slave.
    So again I go to the fact that fespite my outrage- good for a igniting but never good as a life support system – there has to be some sort of contact.
    Maybe Rumi – Out there beyond the field of right and wrong I will meet you there.

  • Good questions!
    Kim
    What is your source of knowledge of post party’s depression?
    Have you read any feminist, literary, anthropological, or global history as they relate to female sexuality?
    Have you read any writings of trauma?
    Do you know what happened to mothers in concentration camps, slave ships, on the forced marches of the First Nation Trails of Tears- not one but many?
    Have you studied with someone like Klauss and Kennel or their today type of researcher on attachment and mother/ infant bonding?
    Are you aware of Marisn Wright Elderman and The Children’s Defense Fund?
    And why no mention of the invisible infant of the man who you do ardently want to help?
    What is your religious background?
    What is your socio- economic background?
    Hav you traveled and visited any type of mother child programs outside of the United States.
    How exactly did you get on board?
    What was your path and who allowed you a seat?
    Do you have any reporting on the diversity compositions of your group?
    How many African American and or First zNation professionals? How about those from Asian backgrounds? What about gender diversity?
    Have you or your group had any intense training on ethics?
    Have you or your group aware of the history of public health and ethics?
    If you have had bioethical training- who what when and where and who provided the funding? Was it government funded or made through Big Pharma?
    Have you ever studied racism or inequality or environmental climatology?
    Have you read Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring and thought maybe she was touching on the tip of at least one iceberg?
    At least by writing this you may be waking up and may be able to actually think outside the box.
    Have you any female elders to consult with?
    In Thornton Wilder’s Theopolious North his protagonist had a circle of all types of human companions. They held him in good staid.
    There is an old adage
    If Momma ain’t happy nobody is happy in our global systems so many mothers are not happy and it is not their fault.
    Are you coregeous enough to see the light and see this a systemic failure of great proportions or will you be another voice that fades into the winds?

  • This really lost me Eric. If I were an up and coming helper I would be turned off and as a retired LISW with twenty years of post graduate experience in a variety of settings you lost me big time.
    I would urge you to buy or get at your local university library
    Anthony Stoer The Art of Psychtherapy
    Selma Fraiberg The Magic Years
    Bessel van der Klerk The Body Keeps the Score
    Also get the writings of survivors and do a thorough history of the history of psychotherapy. Bob’s books and others.
    There are massive amounts.
    Then instead of writing I would have you run not walk to either a homeless shelter, food pantry, group home, and spend time with folks – human to human – eye to eye- and listen and only talk for etiquette sake and to ask questions,
    Then maybe your local prison ministry for either the prisoners and or their families.
    Many great writers teach classes- you might want to research which regional literati teach prison classes and they could assist you in at least observing.
    Then maybe go to a Vet center and listen. Then maybe a nursing home.
    After 9/11 Mr Rogers had a discussion on its trauma for his audience. He quoted his mother saying when you need help go to the helpers.
    Sometimes the helpers YOU NEED are not in positions of power, sometimes they are the riff raff and woe to those of us who do not hear and honor their stories.
    I would be interested in hearing in your. next MIA blog about which folks who choose to learn from and your reactions and lessons learned in.., I had no idea!….. and not their stories you decided to incorporate.

  • Well Kelly better late to the table than not at all. I would say you were miseducated. There has been a phalanx and plethora of information on females that has been dumped, washed, trounced on ect.
    If Klaus and Kennel knew of this 60 hour treatment IV ( and I betcha no breastfeeding allowed or what would be the ramifications to the child? Present and or future?) they would be gobsmacked.
    Selma Fraiberg and the unknown list of indegnious midwives from all over the globe and human history would be gobsmacked as well.
    Penelope Leach and others and btw no male would stand for that type of treatment time and type if one were a CEO or CFO or Crime Syndicate Boss.
    Parkland community just suffered their second post massacre suicide. I am sure there have been others among our history of gun murders both small and large- we just are too broken to connect with the cans of worms that we are living through these days.
    And if we as a species are to survive it starts with the concept of pregnancy and beyond and what may be seen as sexist but I will put it out here. How male infants and children are raised.
    How one is raised if one is seen by parents, or peers, or educators, as other.
    Trauma and it’s worlds and human development we need not only to see the arc of history but the arch of justice and mercy that needs to be an inherent essential part of any and all human communities.
    Glad you saw the light about treatment.
    We need a chorus.

  • Thanks Sera and all.
    These are my thoughts and experiences in my locale.
    We have a very strong medical research and NAMI presence though in some places peers ran some of the MH Centers and once upon a time we had a regional peer coalition.
    What has happened would be a news story that would be picked up by multiple media outlets about someone in a crisis with an altered mental status with police and red lights flashing and the statement”we hope they get the treatment they need.”
    The deaths of urban folks in similar situations. would not be highlighted.
    But a year later, just in time for a NAMI event there would be a “I have found the light! news story about the wonders of medication.
    It would be the so called party line.
    There would be no allowance what was happening to cause a crisis or discussion of how professionals actually treat trauma, or the varigities of a person with high level of sensitivities, or what actually does constitute a religious and or spiritual experience, and most lacking of all the concept of total recovery and how that concept has been totally quashed by the systems involved.
    When given an actual pulpit it becomes recovery porn and not the beginning of an in-depth investigation of the folks behind the curtain who have manipulated the perspectives of so much of society.
    And because of those folks behind the curtain manipulations other folks have no idea of their presence and are taken in.
    When the snake oil salesmen are the only help in town one is exploited by trying to help oneself or others with his help because it’s the only show in town. One can’t be helped with trauma or whatever systemic ills if even the mental and verbal constructs are not allowed to see the light of day.
    How to remove the curtains?
    And this point , I would be happy for truth in advertising or lending type of legal recourses.

  • There is also brain tumors both benign and malignant mistaken for so called “ mental health behavioral conditions.”
    My one LISW friend had a lose relative who had mixed up days and nights and function completely sparely from the partner and family. An expert from a leading university was consulted and sorry no help available. It was only after a happenstance medical emergency that involved a brain MRI that the benign tumor was discovered. Fifteen years of loss of life and this family had many members in the medical professions.
    A patient on the unit I worked was considered “ borderline” because of chronic complaints of headaches then after a ER visit with nonstop vomiting ah! malignant brain tumor was discovered.
    And then there was the Ohd/ MD student working in rotation who was sent to Psychiatry for issues because his concerns about his heart – “ all in his head” – he dropped down in the psych unit floor unconscious no med cart available because psych unit – do they really need one? Thorastic surgeons were seen by Socisl Service Worker to be laughing at a Code Blue called on the psyh unit floor.
    It was the founder of the Burn zI it who ran down four or so flights of stairs who responded to the Code and opened up – literally the student’s chest to do open heart massage but it was too late the oxygen depravation had already caused too much damage.
    I had heard the burn unit surgeon speak at a college class- trauma – all the burn unit folks were facing trauma. One had to be very brave to work within the burn unit. Hard, hard treatment and life long disfiguration and adjustment to life before and life after.
    Later on after my psych unit experiences , I learned my father had mentored the burn unit surgeon.
    To think that there were actual physicians who went above and beyond medical duty and trained others into the realm of not only do no harm but do whatever you can when you can and to hold onto the memories of how I was treated, especially now this month when zI was told by an aide the plan was for me to go into a nursing home and then later to find upon reading my medical records there was Lithium Toxity and Iliterallt could have died but no told me.
    I live with the memories of that and other hospitalizations and the FEAR – ANY DAY the police could AGAIN come knocking and the fear I could not as The Hets in West Side Stiry sing to each other “ Kerp Cool, man Jero Cool.
    I have no gang. Silence in the family and no talk of anything but pretend. Life is Winderful. No Emotions- nada nada burn soul killing nada.
    And other places? Canada, East Coast, Red State,Blue State, Oz. Nada.
    I exist in the whispers of perhaps better days. I cannot believe better will ever come.
    The twenty years of fairly stellar post grad SW is constantly erased by the female staff member who called me the bipolar bitch or the eyes of the nurse who licked me in seclusion.
    As. acimmitted pacifist I fight each day not to let Hate overwhelm me but if nothing my MH experience even with counselors who did no basically no harm and just shot the breeze with no treatment I have learned to hate all of them and especially myself for ALLIWING myself to be taken in.
    I trust no one because will you call the cops on me?
    Woody Guthrie – the BEOMEd psych residents who supposedly did a MH assessment and came from somewhere in the patriarchal Middle East had no idea of who he was. A Trump tenant and great American folksinger.
    Stupid stupid and more stupid.

  • We are talking here of many things – everyone area vitally important DSM abolishment, the human body and its synergy with the evionment, trauma and how the human body reacts in all its various systemic and mircrobiological ways, the professional medical establishment- including others.
    I would like to see a Timeline pre and post Industrial Age.
    This would help with focusing on public health issues that can lead or have led to psychiatric intervention.
    Pre industrial worlds didnot require literacy, many folks lived their entire lives in one place and human environmental interactions were less negative as they are now.
    The research presented so often is not that examplary. It was one of the reasons in the mid 1980’s I just stopped reading any academic journals between the topics and shoddy standards it was literally a waste of time. This of course led to Big Parma sales rep interventions. How very lucky for Big Pharma to have leading academic journals start losing its way. And every time a solid piece actually emerged, it was quashed.
    That in and of itself would be another interesting timeline graph.
    BTW anyone familiar with diabetes knows when a person is hyper or hypoglycemic behavior changes. It has been known for police to arrest a diabetic in actual medical crisis for drunken driving.
    We need to raze the Medical and Science houses to their foundations and start over.Keep any solid beams and throw out all the rotten wood and bent rusty nails.

  • Thanks and this was a perceptive overview.
    I, of course, have some thoughts from my own perspective on several levels.
    Children are not just affected by family and economics / it is the world as it is for them and us.
    The Social Work role is diffuse who are you advocating for? Both parents and children need their own advocates.
    School counselors in my locale could see students without parental permissions.
    I have and had concerns with this.
    PTA- this is an issue and the Social Service/ Psychology fields have staid out of it to the determinant of the school community at times.
    So much depends on who is who and where is where.
    Title I in the US had Social Work and Parent Councils attached to it at one time but Federal funding became an issue.
    Open Air Schools pre WWI in the US did cater to thq health and family situations with the idea of TB prevention.1

  • I am commenting here just for the heck of it.
    The idea of keeping folks down and dependent- in the DD field parents were also involved but I never got the icky affect I felt in some of the NAMI contacts I had.
    Folks wanted and where pleased with their independence.
    Getting a job was a good thing. Again the monetary factor and DD is easily identifiable because it’s real and kids are a good PR for levy’s.
    In fact, the DD system went bad in the opposite direction. One could not stay at the county workshop – costs money! One had to progress to private employment whether that was in the best interest of the human being involved. Workshops also had a devoted rec staff and off time activities.
    Voc rehab for those with MH issues in my locale closed down or streamlined .
    There were groups of physically challenged folks who protested and eventually got public transportation. It was a hard fought gain.
    When humans make other folks uncomfortable because of their distress and the raison d’entre is unknown or very complex and with our fear based society the control freaks can jump right in.

  • These called study is comparing apples to oranges. One cannot hope to research schools when Western European and American education are so staggeringly different. Different year schedule, different history, different inequality factors, different environmental factors. Mozart’s grandfather lived in “ public housing” in Germany and as I recall, it was still a solid well built apartment complex. Not do for those living in some HUD housing today in the States.
    I worked in schools and the fear , stress, curriculum issues, home, life, the isms that kids are so aware of were there and that was before school shootings became a regular part of the scenery. Again not do for Western Europe or any other global school system.
    And the research should not be on problems but how kids survive and find ways to survive the lives we have given them. So many are lost through no fault of their own.

  • Thanks for this. One view and still so many more to have highlighted.
    There really should be a White House Conference on Trauma along with Congressional Hearings and possibly a new department that would work on an interdepartmental level providing education to all the powers and others that be. Perhaps a type of “ white” or maybe “ rainbow” paper that would cut to the basics so that the information would be easily accessible to all.
    And also s long as we are still the subject of the month club maybe a trauma month.

  • Bruce, you certainly get your point across for our current times but I have a few thoughts for further expansion and thinking.
    The other side of this is Aesculypian Authority which dates back before Hippocrates in the time of healing temples with rites and rituals.
    Siegler and Osmond in their book of the same title write on this.
    At one time medicine was considered both an art and science and there was a subset subtle community contract Icede power to you to help me heal.
    Emphasis on the I here. This was the so called patient allowing for a certain limited transfer of power.
    What you describe is the complete overtaking of all power and control and intertwined bad care, treatment, and so called chemical help in many areas of modern day medicine so untruths for pure profit. The contract be damned.
    Interestingly the Rod of Aesculpian and the Cadeuceus are two intirely different symbols now used interchangeably since WWI due to human error.
    That no one in the realm of the powers that be has never even deigned to figure this is beyond my ken but makes so much sense to the question of now. Silly docs!
    Coming from a medical family and then working at a teaching hospital I could feel the difference and painfully see the difference between generations. Not at all – all the time but the trend of power and control and willful ignorance of much was apparent.
    And to be fair, medical education play a large role in this
    During WW II certain magnet schools were used to pipeline docs to war. Streamlined classes and new courses and then the war ended and nothing but the vets themselves were left if any wisdom gained.
    I grew up with this doc was a POW in Japan – he came back changed- this doc was Polish but was going to med school in England and joined the RAF, many had seen much trauma then there were the Korean War vets, and Vietnam Vets.
    There was a stream of wisdom gained through trauma – some not all.
    What I observed as an employee and then as a patient for so called MH treatment was what you described.
    But many interns and residents were coming from privilege and the path to medical school seemed set on what neighborhood you entered kindergarten.
    It was like at a family wake an extended family friend was asking me well
    what do you say? And I was like been doing this for decades and yeah it ain’t easy but I worked this out by myself at ten. And maybe family cut offs- total non exposure to trauma- both could be true.
    I don’t know how this evolved in its entirety but change cane and it was bad. May be cog in the wheel and kick the next one in line and Last is the patient and the most feared is the MH patient. Allowable stigma- free ride.
    And those that come in – some of the best never even tried because wrong neighborhood.
    Not to say Trauma is a good thing. Ask any person whose parent or parents endured trauma and even the ones who overcame not easy but it can be used for wisdom.
    I think wise medical treatment professionals are few and far between.
    Also I’d thry are- they too are trapped in the system that is.
    BTW Pharma sales rep massaged the docs giving them treats making them blind and beholden. Great, great sales strategy.

  • Lawerence or Larry? My reaction is different because I lived in the edges of white suburban privilege. This is the population that fits your writing – other folks a whole and completely different story but INTERSECTIONALITY the threads are there sometimes hidden by life sometimes deliberately hidden with harm to ALL.
    Females- mother’s are targeted by Pharma the ads 60% female patients and oh so suburban. Literature – advertising from big and small medical clinics.
    When I had my non professional intervention in was two white suburban mothers. A friend had earlier said she had started taking so called medicine so the hole in the dike.
    Also females were beginning to see issues – you really can’t have it all and if you do there is a huge price despite what it looks like from the outside. Trauma and pill popping – Valium was called mother’s little helper.
    If you talk to old 12 steppers no drugs but they had so many using them and being given them from docs and rehab centers most just gave up and went on biting their tongue.
    Some locals have a plethora of12 step groups of all kinds and there were others groups for awhile but funding for groups took a big hit and trauma and its subsequent issues and again – the magic of chemistry- Little did we know it was all a con.
    There there is the pain issue and sports and sex abuse. I could go on.
    Meanwhile in the urban areas hard times even more so. Not one job but three. No work time always on call. More guns, more anger, more police doing really harmful stuff.
    And the politicians going on their merry way because well – good health right No on call surprises, job networking, book deals. A cafeteria and gym – Congress – not sure about state capitols.
    This is a mosaic of an octupos so I am thinking in some ways better not get angry at the person carrying ONE PIECE of this multi- dimensional Greek tragedy.
    And I know triggers. I know too well.
    Ah decorum. How your mother if she wasn’t too traumatized by life would want her adult child to act and if you didn’t have one a godmother or any elderly person one could respect.
    And yes too the holder of the mosaic piece needs to have that same since only more so. The acknowledgement that folks have been harmed and the ability to if not actually hold hands to do it verbal soul to soul – we instead of me sitting in the high elevation of slsohbet soup.
    Sorry sometimes I just can’t stay silent.

  • Rachel777
    There were anti drug docs but they kept with the status quote because NO ONE knew how to stop them once they were taken as a regime.
    Behind closed doors one of the docs challenged the staff to take a Haldo or whatever chemical and NO ONE DID.
    The “ story” was two years with compliance and no hospitalizations. And when it did happen there were excuses hiding their ignorance.
    When I was given medication, part of me thought fine Show Me, Show Me Know and after years lost and awful experiences yeah my instinct was right not any type of panacea at best nightmare at worst.
    However people do seek these chemicals. No one has addressed the word of mouth part of this I tried it and it worked white suburban folks and then the kids stole the meds and some bad things happened.
    I think there are some folks who knows why that it is helpful but I don’t understand why and no one knows.
    There are no longitudinal studies at all.
    But it is clear big Pharma and the FDA were actively in greed mode. They didn’t care at all.
    If we are ever to truly have a round table there has to be all encompassing dialogue and truth in lending – really some of the blogs I don’t know.
    I am trying hard to withdraw and rest for awhile from thinking on all of this.
    Hopefully , I wouldn’t be triggered and I can just focus on now not the past. Tincture of Time the best script written after TLC.

  • Ah Ed you have a treasure to give. DE Winnicot! I wa told when a child was not cooperating he would say / you know this isn’t fun let’s doodle.
    Many of us here have been deeply wounded but there were folks who did try to help not super well but they took a caring approach – too few and too hidden.
    I for one would be interested in hearing your experiences and thoughts.

  • As a retired LISW with over twenty years working in urban and other areas and well acquainted with treatment from both sides of the desk, this seems like a conversation from eh ? 1990?
    It is good to see a dialogue format but have you been reading what is out there and are you into empowerment, social justice of all tropes, and trauma?
    An overview of past pdych meds? Really?
    What about family history and culture?
    If one’s so called client has a Jewish background wish in terms of intergenerstional trauma , same and even more so for African Americans, Hispanics, and First Nation folks and one cannot forget the Armenian Genocide.
    Then there is the conflagration of layers of complex trauma when intergenerstional trauma is overlaid with victims turning into aggressors. Read “ To Kill a Mocking Bird” Ella May was taped by her “ white trash” father who MADE her accuse an innocent black man. Alice Walker’s “ The Color Purple” showed in fine detail a father’s rape of his daughter. Both men tragically affected by cultural history and using the only power they felt they had sex to enforce control.
    Add to this , so many folks go to their graves without being able to tell about abuse episodes.
    Then there is the why some folks endure and become assets to the world and others like these male fictional characters become part of the great morass.
    Psych meds are ways to control and if you want we all here could share ways of coping without loads of meds or none at all.
    I will be hoping for some interactive feedback. A true dialogue is multi sided.

  • Thanks for this Anders. I found new and interesting facts from your writing.
    It would be really interesting to do a blog with a timeline graphic from the start of the first diagnosing to now. There has been so much changing. When I started becoming aware my view was that this was a DD issues and this persisted with PDD . There also was a book Son Rise by Barry Kaufman and I had heard stories of total transformations. I would also like to see environmental toxins and other data in the timeline. Rachel Carson, I think only touched the top of the iceberg.
    Global info too!
    Then there is the whole yes sensory integration issue The Spirited Child was a big book in the day.
    Artists of all ills have that and in some places I have heard we are all in the spectrum.
    Also allergies and asthma. Both issues especially in urban areas.
    And just for the heck of it – there used to be cancer islands- folks would go house to house and ask and some were found and there is the public health issue in Victorian England about disease and water wells.
    There is so much and I am sure at times I have or fall into the spectrum for what it is worth- not much.
    The big issue here is school. To get help you need to get labeled.
    If every child had an IEP – change and the money to execute education like those who are truly privileged.

  • Thanks Alex I remembered to state your name at times just to triggered. However there is Alan Bates in “ King of Hearts” knocking at the gate. There is the madwoman if a certain part of Paris, France showing the stairs down to the Paris underground and locking the door behind the oil inspector and his friends. There is also this from Audre Lorde
    I have found that battling despair does not mean closing my eyes to the enormity of the tasks of effecting change, nor ignoring the strength and the barbarity of forcedignedagaibst us. It means teaching,surviving, and fighting with the most important resource I have, myself. and taking joy in that battle.
    So there is that. I am resting and will not be back for awhile. Best to all the inmates.

  • Actually if one works in a government entity one is in the government union. Supervisors are part of the bargaining unit and so forth. It gets very mess when there is a strike. Some workers stay inside in order not to break the lines.
    In Community Mental Health Clinics despite popular myth they are not government entities. In fact, they were supposed to get monies from the Fed but the monies never materialized and county taxes were used to shore up the system since each center was separate and unique. In some states funding was divided with labels such as DD levies versus DDand MH levies.
    So unions were helpful to staff it they were alliwed. Unlike government agencies there were no Pensions or PERS.
    It then made agencies created in this mode to use public and private insurance. Then even government agencies were feeling the elevator drop in financial support and they went into gaining access to government insurance. The state government did not like their Medicaid monies going to agencies do a cat and mouse Hell was created with states using every opp to deny billing monies to agencies based on progress note VOCABULARY. This approach was further developed along Case Management and Therapy lines. Administrators would cull ever note written and probably still do to ensure proper wording was in place. In the last agency I worked at a well known Jewish agency staff were using copies from progress note workbooks to ensure their notes were not censured and kept their jobs. It wasn’t never, at that point what you did, it was solely what you wrote.
    Clients needs and concerns were st the bottom of the cess pool.
    I walked away after nearly being fired. This was based on vocabulary in my progress notes. They knew I was good just not profitable. The folks I worked with ALWAYS or mostly AlWAYS liked me. I was not perfect or totally awoke but I tried to honor and respect them and learn from them.
    So their clients were retraumatized once again by having me leave. Stupid , stupid, and more stupid.
    There are folks who have a knack for supporting others through trying times. Our society puts all of us in the shredder and doesn’t care one iota how we or us or we who have tried to gain access to so called help and or support end up. Once agencies assumed CEO and CFO officials we and the system were goners ruined and abused goners.

  • Well duh. In a world on fire without any sustained emotional sustenance what would one expect?
    Church institutions are being exposed as viper nests of abuse, corporate interests of many ilks are holding up or putting into motion nefarious and malefesent power plays that have been building up for decades, museums and other art circles have been infested with money from for profit deliberate make us money at any cost short and long term thinking and acting strategies, the VA is trying to be taken over by a troika based out of Mar Lar Go, the environment is trashing and may be completely trashed, suicide rates are up in ever every human sector, isms continue to proliferate, folks are weighed down by every sector and vector of circumstance, lies abound,
    media is doing well because it’s soap opera time on the edge of what will be the next WTF moment, and help or soul caring for almost anyone – even the super rich is almost non existent.
    I keep waiting for the clean up crew to arrive for the end of our bread and circus global street parade, but the units and bands just keep on coming. I long to see the Zombini on ice or the humble street cleaner moving past toward the end of this endurance event not quite a full scale war but definitely not safe times, not a pre something or yet a post something. The hundred year war is my only go to thought and I truly hope that thought is wrong.
    And it is all folks. I cannot say police for all their issues are not in pain or acute or chronic distress. I cannot say that for staff in psych units either. I would only guess if truth be told admins at insurance companies, clergy, pollsters, are all in some sort of crisis.
    The ratings may be great for media companies but how long of an extended cycle of WTF continue. And illnesses, colds, ect how much of that is just a body metaphor for my life stinks.
    And the children. They are listening and watching and not only what is this DOING to them but what is it FOING to any possible future progeny? Intergenerstional Trauma begins in the womb.
    For some there is a hope for the future after but unless there is some sort of local, national, global plans of action or framework already being created- I don’t know.
    My hope would be for trauma centers run by all types of survivors and some how a level playing field for all. I don’t expect perfection it just would be nice to see hope in action a strong bonding of promise. Other wise the insane asylum will just become the earth itself.

  • Thanks for this. I found your personal story compelling. I am sorry for your loss.
    Back in the day in treatment with children, no medication was used. Even in residential treatment. The only time I saw it used was for developer mentally disabled children and that was NOT across the board.
    It is not only chemicals that are issued as treatment but the total disabandement of any concept of treatment quality. If there was any and I still believe in some places or folks there were , it has become extinct. What is left is the last visible skeleton of so called treatment and a continuing ongoing assault of bio0sychiatry to keep its hands on the money at all costs.
    Thanks again and THANKS for commenting.

  • Thanks yes. I had known peers who worked there and the attrition rate was fast and furious. No one wanted to work the program. They actually had me do most of the work- messed up on meds and a mother in crisis. I appreciate their kind efforts to help a peer so very much. The others group leaders not good some awful. One way of doing mindfulness was walking through the hospital and appreciating the indoor plants. There was no – none type of Jon Jabari Zinn and Harvard Mind Body techniques. Trauma was not labeled as such and all of us where in various types of and levels of trauma.
    There was no caring or empathy.
    Our insurance paid for this travesty.
    Therapist don’t care re about last labeling just get the patient in the door.
    The best form of help for parenting trauma was the program I had been Co- Director of so not an option.
    Everyone in the family of was compromises d by cancer survivorship or missing because of death from cancer or compromised by other tragic illnesses.
    And I had been the rock of gilbrater that had been utterly shattered.
    Looking based Ca any money that was a copay could and should have been used for a long family extended time away somewhere. That for some reason did not seem possible. Help at home which if one had sisters or cousins or friends would have worked with support for them. But no one was there. No one.
    The kids paid the price. I call child abuse and neglect by proxy.

  • I question this. The creator of DBT is actually a psych survivor who hid her status for years. Dr Marsha L something. She was given a SMI type of dx.
    When I was in the life of trauma one psychologist referred me to a day treatment DBT program. It was awful for me, for my family, and my extended family. It was summer and my kids were left on their own. During the cigarette breaks- I don’t smokeI wouldcallthem to check in. My one daughter baked brownies and I was not there to help her when she burned herself. It was her first time making brownies. If I hadn’t been so compromised by trauma and over medication Iwould have not gone and tried but it was pushed on me.
    The groups were ridiculous and devoid of any sense of good. YES MASTER is one of the acronyms the treatment uses. I cringed when I was forced to listen to that sexist drivel.
    Yes it had mindfulness and supposed spirituality fake , fake, and more fake.
    The reason there is any positive outcome is that there are no lap tops in the group therapy rooms. And most people don’t have twenty years postgraduate work to evaluate the program and its providers.
    I was able to chalkenge the spirituality group leader and she left the room in session. The other group members applauded.

  • As a former LISW, I saw this from the time when there was a possibility of hope to this and worse. I also have been so called gifted with being in the system in all if forms.
    Thanks for this but.
    You are not helping. Truly. It might seems as if you r but what I and friends would discuss is sometimes those helpful sessions were triggering and some of us came out of the building totally zombified. And when in a trtraumatized state and especially if you are labeled SMI the power differential is unequal.
    My mother was a MSW and worked with pregnant women who had to climb up 7 flights of stairs to get to her office. It wasn’t until she herself had been through pregnancy that she realized what SHE had done to those women and she never did that again. And she was for the 1950’s and early 1960’s fairly awoke for a white woman of those times.
    I have experienced the same OMG, WTF type of reaction after my own time in the solitary room in inpatient so called treatment.
    I saw what you have seen but there is so much more.
    I am glad you wrote this but do something. I have had bad experiences so I don’t have the freedom to do what you could do.
    1) Read up on the Pdych survivor momvement and Disability Studies. The powers that be divide and conquer so well in this area. They put each group of folk with different disabilities into little boxes and make them feel that it is a zero sum game.
    2)Ask five folks that you work work to tell them to tell you the truth of being in system.
    3) Do a trauma history with their permission and have a plan about who what where and how you can help them.
    Have you read the literature of trauma? Both professional and survivor and IHO the best are those that gave both backgrounds and are woke. There are some that have both but are not woke. Don’t dismiss them but read between the lines in everything and everyone.
    4) Make a plan to leave and get out. It is not going to get better right now. What you described is a catatonic, divisive, top down agency. It will hurt and harm you.
    5)
    Dialogue with us.Learn and maybe you can be part of the change .

  • I am interested in the framework of the new institute. Who will be on board and on the board? Where is the funding coming from?
    Will the voice of medical patients of all tropes and types be part of the configuration?
    What is the Mission Statement?
    What is the business plan?
    Have you considered how to make changes so that an action that was taken by the CEO cannot happen again?
    What are the short and long term goals and objectives?
    Will the concept of violations of human rights be of ongoing concern?
    Will there be any human rights advocacy?
    How will you get your message out and by what means?
    Thanks. I like the concept of failing up.

  • Corinna, I think we all realize your efforts. I tried to create a non alternative place and got no help, in fact I was targeted by NAMI folks who came into a free Reiki session and two females came up and started sprouting. Mental Illness is a disease like diabetes. I was too kind to ask if they had ever worked on a medical floor or personally knew folks who have or cared for those with that true disease. I also failed to ask if they had either a SocialnWork, or other type of liscence that would allow them to make statements such as that.
    I also interviewed for a Cimmunity Mental Health Center that has for years been peer focused and as soon as I mentioned Robert W’s Work end of interview.
    Also does not help my former boss was physically escorted out of a County MH meeting by police on orders of the director of the MH / SA board. He had been in line to get the position himself but as they say the fix was in.
    In some places things are difficult.

  • Thanks OH.
    Yes. Folks need to read about Jonas Salk and his refusal to take on any financial benefit from his work on the Polio Vaccine. And how many kids in iron lungs do we see now? He was legitimate. Contrast that with Marsha Getson’s latest New Yorker article on the action at the Met Art Education Center.
    People were killed – thousands all in the quest for profit.
    As is written in the Declration of Independence by a slave owner who refused to Free his six ? children from slavery until after his death “ it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it.”
    There is now, thanks to Bryon Stephenson and many others a memorial to those lives destroyed by the Jim Crow era of lynchings.
    Pablum and politeness isn’t going to work.
    Though I appreciate your efforts and it shows how their thinking is irrational-

    how can any human be afraid of other and or 360 perspectives unless they are fearful of losing power and control?
    There is an ocean of this small thinking that has gained influence on so many institutions and they have or are trying to not only lock folks up but also throw away the key by various actions like divide and conquer, following the systemic method of Jim Crow subtle and not so subtle fear and control abuse, dis information, blame and name calling.
    They don’t want people to connect the dots which would show
    many but not all folks in the systems or systems depending how global one wants to go with multiple institutions
    and formats
    that the lines lead straight to a select group with various hangers on ect….
    During WWII there were various efforts to ferment change within the Nazi government and Stalin ect – it failed because many people thought at first they could be reasoned with.
    With money and power and control involved reason means nothing.
    I am still hopeful we have not reached a point of no return but it seems we need much much more like the Met action and use Saul Alinsky and other ancient and new strategists to inform the future.

  • Corinna,
    I see where you are coming from but Saul Alinsky would say just your request in and off itself is putting you in the less powerful position.
    What many, many folks don’t understand about being in need of support is that there are many ways and the powers that be have limited everyone perspective on that, closed doors and windows, and blind folded , shackled, and deafened true human perspective.
    Many founders have both above ground and below ground agendas and they want what they want regardless.
    Asking to be seated at the table is much different from just taking a seat st the table.
    Why not an anti NAMI parallel group?

  • He is a Finnish psychiatrist.
    I doubt he has ever spent a significant amount of time in either urban, rural, or suburban American public school systems.
    Back in the day, when I was young and Oresident Reagan had just come into office, African American children in Virginia supposedly integrated where expressing fears that all African Americans would be moved to Africa. Considering the Inugural Committee had the Morman Tabernacle Choir sing on the steps of the Lincoln Momument with Ephesians Zimilist Jr as the MC , I would have said their fears though untrue had a solid basis and yes a nine year old child might well think bringing a pocket knife to school or not going into the bused “ white” section for school might not be an especially safe choice and combine that the integration action was created to fail because the teachers stayed and were not integrated.
    One of my friends father was a principal and went to homes to convince families it was safe.
    He ended up leaving the education field. Another good professional gone because of corrupt systems
    I am not anti public school or school but
    if one is going to talk the talk one needs mud one ones hiking boots.

  • Brice, I am so very sorry for the loss of your mother and then stepmother and then hard times seemed to have continued. You lived on and it was not stupid for you to help out others and your life narrative is so very important.
    Kids need you.
    The trouble is the system and it still there were some good things perculsting but they got shot down. Fritz Redl would be a good person to look up if you still work in residential treatment.

    To all, there are two threads here that for me seem to be getting tangled.
    There is the 911 and or mental health check and then separate the mandated reporting thread.
    1) The world is made so that ANYONE can make a call to polic and THEY have to act on that call.
    So after having a blowout in the family car with one of my teen kids who was beyond furious with me for IDK and drove down the street to fast. Well families always always be wary when there are teen drivers living on the street or. the guy who stops at the bar everyday after work. So the neighbors made a fuss, I apologized for her behavior because by that time she had taken the car and driven away. I walked into the garage and muttered to myself something about being a bad parents and because there had been a suicide in the tiwn -actually a relative and nobody in the neighborhood knew because she did not associate with me- I just had these words that came out because several days earlier the same kid who also was unaware of the family relationship Nrs so and so shot her self in the mouth and died.
    On overhearing my comment which was ostensibly private the neighborhood said loudly I know what I will do. I will call the police. She had no idea of who I was in any shape or form.
    And then the police came.
    No consequences for her poor judgement and breaking of boundaries. None.
    I was mortified.
    This practice has a long history. Some people use it to create neighborhood wars. And now it can be a racist or whatever ism and done and cloaked in so called caring.Fear plays a role too-
    It makes everything so much much worse for EVERYONE involved.

    Then mandated reporting can be used to help or hurt by usually the mandated is for trained professionals with the emphasis on trained. With the breaking of the systems there are risks the trainings are done poorly and the CPS staff poorly paid, overworked, and not requiring any special degree or life wisdom – can be problematic in the investigation.
    Children are a lifeline to the future. In the United States they are pawns for politicians and mere consumers for profit making corporations. And the abuse and neglect especially in certain groups- ah we are ruining heart , mind, and soul here.
    So IDK issues all around. I will always trust a survivor of any corrupt system then one who claims human perfection.
    We need leaders like you Brice who KNOW and create something like a phoenix.

  • Thanks Sera and kudos for writing about this! I am so glad the interactions were relatively minor- which says everything about my own life narrative.
    There are several layers to this workshop and how it played out for you.
    I admire your bravery and know exactly where you were coming from and my guess is one of the inner voices was saying don’t go there but you did and I probably might have done the same twenty years ago. Now no.
    1) This is now and we are living in a mess of a hair trigger world. We all are walking on broken glass so to speak.
    As I look for societal connections to make or observe systems of all kinds I see knots and tangles, holes, and rips in fabric.So I try to see all folks as coming from this life trauma framework but so very hard and always one step forward and two steps backward.
    So my guess all the folks including trainers were co- existing with trauma and were somewhere in different levels with all of that. Your real ness probably scared them witless!
    So the one of the two things I want to bring up is we all all know folks who have tried or did commit suicide regardless of wherever we are on the spectrum and I would stand my ground that it’s not if you Thought this life is not that great my options are very limited and any hope grows dim at one time or another.
    No group has ever brought out the connection of how we as a society not only cannot desk with death but suicide is almost a verboten word almost to the level of a taboo.
    Read the obits. Listen to the muddle story of a cousin’s sudden death. The whispered stories that children tell each other at sleepovers. You know that house in the corner? This were the whoever offed themselves by whatever method fill in the blank.
    In my old parish there was a suicide cluster and lots of wtf type of deaths in the passing years. I think trauma of many sorts played a role.
    My list of folks and peers who have chosen somehow to walk away is long.
    And there are so many ways to do that.
    Not one so called helping profession ever ever bothered to asl how have you been affected by suicide. Never because
    way way to scary and oh my the therapist would have experience your loss – secondary or tertiary trauma.
    12step programs have been the only place I have felt this is even acknowledged and I know other new groups. This is just the first that comes to mind. I am aware of others.
    The second piece is it wasn’t always this way. I really knew a Vietnam Vet shrink who would be like folks are going to do what they are going to do. There were more folks out there after the 1950’s and then it fell apart fairly quickly especially in the eighties.
    And yes there are dangerous situations and like you been there done that but not anything like your workshop.
    I hope the media picks up on this. There are some signs but not enough and I am too old to be patient for a long haul perspective. Trauma centers now.

  • Interesting thoughts Chaya.
    I found that when I was incarcerated in the psych unit I was massively drugged and my vision was so blurry it was hard to read and also just focus.
    This was an issue outside as well. My eyes did not work right.
    And go tell that story to your friendly neighborhood ophthalmologist.
    My other thoughts are no large print books, tv’s encased in locked wood boxes virtually impossible too use. Staff controlled so the worst of the worst was ALWAYS on. No auditory system for reading. No music. No art. Nada Nada.
    I also want to point out that in the penal incarceration system there are also gross injustices.
    Racism is real and ugly.
    There is a school to prison pipeline. And how many are being forced to take “ our” type of meds?
    How many really do have educational access?
    What books are actually given to them or as I would guess are they censored?
    TD Jakes but not Eldridge Cleaver?
    We need to join together somehow and somehow continue to highlight the terrible awfulness of not having any conception of discharge dates, any any legal or social advocate and No outside time.
    We can bond with seclusion and solitary confinement.
    Kids Chaya kids like ten year olds are or can be in solitary!
    We all need to study more about each other. Read and study hard uncomfortable stuff and then dialogue.
    And hopefully sooner rather than later make comprehensive change.
    I feel a bond with ex cons, I feel a bond with any type of hostages, I feel a bond with POW, I ferl a bond with detainees and refugees like those in Australia.
    The Native American children taken to boarding schools. The Irish women and girls taken and umprisioned by the Magdalene Laudaties. Those in the First and Ladt Circes in Soviet Russia and any country here and now.
    What is that old saying? None without us? Something like that together.

  • I understand your anger and he didn’t have the guts to stand up to the powers that be this enduring horrible harm for generations of women. But one has to acknowledge that he did see it but surrcombed to the academic powers. If he had not been Jewish maybe it would have been different. I don’t know and we will never know. I just like to a full view to everyone and acknowledge efforts even if deliberately stopped.
    One of the problems of history is that it is mainly written by the victors and so much important stuff is deliberately or randomly lost.
    All sides should be recorded and discussed even though the yuck favor or really really legitimate outrage is felt.
    My father would read books on folks he did’t like – buy them in fact, so I like to have a 360 view of things. Very dicey and painful at times but for me there you go.
    I enjoy your comments and thinking. Your voice is an important part of the mix – every voice is and deserves to be heard though ah at times for me, they can still be triggering from my past life of so called treatment.
    Thanks for responding!

  • Actually Richard and somewhat contrary to the article, I read and was taught it was not Freud who censored his patients it was the Medical peers and Psychoanalytic Socities that discredited Freud and in order to continue on in good graces he was forced to retract some of his work in that area.
    It must have haunted him. His culture and religious background could, may have been problematic in view of the historical events in Germany before he fled to England.
    No matter what, it was an immense tragedy all aroun for everyone.

  • Not sure I agree with injury almost a vortex / Cascade event or events. Very similar in thought but not in vocabulary to Sarah’s blog.
    There needs to be a type of Paris Table Peace talk with at least two diverse voices dialoguing in real time. A person with triworld experience in this family/ self/ MH professional world would be extremely invaluable.
    Once a word and concept framework is agreed upon maybe even have a vote here. Which words are acceptable or not?
    Then go for exposure st all the various CUE professionals are mandated to attend and do a traveling show with that. By working as a group rather than individual effort the safety fears of psych survivors would be somewhat assumed. If someone does do a Mental Health call on you at the conference it will be observed by friends instead of strangers who know what to do.
    Folks are usually bored to tears at these conferences so at worst their thoughts will be when does the party start after the evaluations are turned in?
    Then I would add legal and media supporters and then aim for a White House Conference or Congressional hearings or testimony.
    Until I can see dialogue happening and cross referencing between blogs and ALL folks nothing ain’t goin to happen.
    Breggin and others need not only to write but dialogue and in the oldblig oneboringoldman as interesting as it was. He discriminated based on profession and survivors barely got a glancing nod.
    If one is fighting Leviathian one will not win with one harpoon or a Captain Ahab in charge. Ishmael was the only human left from the Pequad and he was saved because Queque sensed doom and built himself a coffin.
    We need a type of Shakelton for our times with a band of merry not pranksters but commingled voices of strong resistance and ultimate action.

  • Yes the name and yes it is the parents who started it and in my area many families were of the Jewush faith and though I knew professionals whose parents lived through the Holocaust theconnection between inter generational trauma and the as Dr. Carl Whittaker would say before he became a family therapy parish “ the identified patient” was never seen and there even now is now aha moment or eureka in this organizational matrix.
    Codependency but ah that comes from trauma as well. And I think as Sarah did with her recent writing parents need the same creative stress response format.
    Fear this I saw in MH professionals many who had relatives with issues in the system but a type of trying to save things in the family ala E. Fuller Torrey MD and his sister. And really what happened to her? In the origin story and in my reading no would not want a sibling like that No.
    But there is the fear what if my kids get it? And for many people the crazy aunt or uncle or grandparent is erased. As the DD parents were TOLD to do by the docs when their child was born” not right.”
    And then in medical family circles ah the shrink kids – always at least one in big do do. So the fear can become a reality and then there is the .org that comes to their rescue.
    I still don’t understand the divide between ARC and BAMI though sometimes issues crossover. And is ARC still called ARC. I have lost touch. But the label was caught and mostly won.
    And in the agencies inclusion was fought for but also times just to hang with the homies too. I never ever got that feeling from NAMI ever.
    FYI Best Boy is an old but worthy documentary on a Down Syndrome young man leaving his parents. There is NOTHING like this type of effort in NAMI.
    Also Rachel there is guilt the gift that always keeps giving. Mother’s ferl that and some husbands use it for all its worth. So the Moms in NAMI How many have heard-You Gave Birth to him or her?
    Way way too many and a group like NAMI uses it for all that it is worth.
    I am with Sera on all of this.