Thursday, May 23, 2019

Comments by CatNight

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  • PD, Eve Ensler has just come out with new writing on trauma and recovery. One event had Glenn Close who did an anti stigma campaign on labeling but missed the mark. It was as a helpful family member not psych surivivor.
    Eve writes the apology she would have liked to hear from her father if he had seen the so called light of his parenting actions – which were really abusive in multiple ways.
    The discussion here as been lovely in terms of using a vocabulary that enables hard and painful dialogue.
    The parents especially mothers who are the ones to hold together everything with sometimes little or no community support and sometimes the support that is there takes along while sometimes to find one has been snookered and snickered.
    The group of support for multiples was more a money raiser than help. PTA a true grapevine – one has to pretend everything is just perfect, just perfect and then alone who do you blame? And if there are other issues? And if one really talks to other parents – yes we have at one time or another crossed the red line. And as mothers we bear the responsibility of seeing fathers verbally or physically berate our sons or I guess daughters and we become frozen. Trauma over and under and between and inside and below and above.
    For the mother with the son- I apologize I can’t recall and get your name.
    Kabul Gibran – are Children are not ours- arrows beyond us.
    Thanks to all for the words.

  • What might be an interesting construct to investigate is the character from “Alice in Wonderland.”
    The Mad Hatter was based on reality. Folks who worked in military factories became irrational and endured altered states. It was eventually discovered the chemicals used in the factory process were the cause.
    I find this haunting especially in our world. So much exposure so many suppressed and or uninvestigsted issues of altered mental states. Trauma is one layer but only one of many.

  • Good to sex abuse trauma brought up on this website.
    When one has been traumatized it can take years or never come out.
    One of my strongest issues with the psychiatric fields is the cover up and blatant disregard for the area of trauma. WWI soldiers were needed to return back to battle so the British Military became trauma recovery experts. The poet/ soldiers that survived were complimentary of their treatment.
    Many other writers wrote from their trauma after the war. Then trauma was forgotten though the negative societal issues continue to implode and transmute. Vets were part of the Black and Tan forces sent to Ireland. It did not go well. Moral injury over and between more moral injury.
    Sex abuse although not quite the same as veteran trauma but intertwined because of colleteral damage of civilians part and parcel at times.
    Children are so much more vulnerable and so less able to speak. No language but a cry truly.
    My best guess is that psychiatric professions misdiagnosed trauma victims as various labels including so called dkizophrenia. If one would study any case histories of WW1 of vets treated same symptoms of clusters with a non trauma related label now.

  • Thanks you. You had a much different experience than I had. I supervised a social work student who my own supervisor refused to work with because she was out with her status.
    Living in an area with many medical and academic institutions the peer movement was almost nonexistent. The one state peer group disbanded.
    I guess in my journey I am still caught in the abuse that occurred and lack of any ongoing peer contact that fits for me. Everything is NAMI based everything.

  • Ron, interesting thoughts but I disagree. There are those two paradigms but you have totally ignored the most important paradigm abuse.
    As a LISW with twenty years of social work in areas of children and adults and families and trauma of all kinds, and in the MH system inside and outside and with experiences with the old state institution system. There are places field students were NOT ALLOWED to go into I know medical malpractice and abuse when I see it, even if I was zonked out of my mind and dealing with life trauma not of my own making.
    I was severely traumatized by the so called treatment from friends taking it into their own hands you need a shrink and calling on my mother who was dealing with my terminally ill only sister and her three small children ect ect ect and saying YOU NEED MEDICATION never once allowing me the gift of oh she ‘s got her hands full but I trust her to ask for help if she needs it. And I never would have chosen a public park system to confront a person dealing with nonlocus of control events. A letter if you really felt the need to become involved would have been hah! the sane thing to do. And then calling my mother with names and phone numbers of shrinks was just the beginning of my years of total disaster.
    And then to have the majority of the so called professionals not to treat that trauma or ask about other non locus of control life events borders on cruel and unusual punishment or I would even venture to say torture.
    Whether a survivor self identifies with recovery or with the idea of a pride movement – whatever works to get you through life. And I would not expect folks to be in one Camp or the other or some may have arms and legs in different streams, again whatever works.
    Restorative Justice. And if one knows anything about it – not perfect and one can never take back the disaster years but a formal apology, a clearing of the diagnosis or diagnoses would be a kind of benchmark to begin with.
    I also suggest you read about anti- facits and Marxist’s in Vichy France who were at risk of internment or prison. Some never recovered.And when I was in an Unit it was more internment than anything else. Some prison systems the ones that are not in the south or made for abuse actually have kitchens, and libraries, and outside time ie The Shawshank Redemption. Club Fed as well.
    This is not the time for thought experiments in paradigms but thanks for your effort. Another time maybe?

  • Michael, I appreciate your writing but ah not quite what I have been hoping for from professionals.
    You and the others choose to stay in the system and I don’t know if you shared your own experience with altered states or not. My guess is you did not? Not clear and as the system was getting more restrictive and more Pharma based what did you do? When folks reported abuse did you do anything to change the system or really could you?
    Did you contact the county or state officials? Did you ever try to find peers that really were like you in past experience?
    My sense of things before my forced time in system was folks who divulged their past were stigmatized not maybe in from but from behind.
    I am looking to move and going through stuff. I am going to share a letter I found- an apology from a high school friend. Unasked for but decent.
    This is 15 year old male teen who lived in a blue collar neighborhood, father dead and life not that easy. I was more upscale but very learning disabled and on the fringe of life- part but not parcel.
    This is the next step.
    Dear-
    I know I’ve been a real pain in the…..neck. And I know I have done some stupid things. All I can say is that I’m really sorry. I hope you will forgive me and still think of me as your friend.
    4 sentences. It does not take much.
    We have lost the art of this and fear rules the day in terms of any type of restorative justice. Responsibility even when ah 39% or 89% not my fault.
    Georgetown University is muddied and muddy but it’s out there and the river is running through it’s slave ownership history.
    My one relative ran a part of a medical research tri- part community for ALL involved. She dealt with families and she was bowled over by their desperation to find ANYTHING that would help. She was amazed with the patients. She liked and admired some of the professional staff, others not so much. But she gave all equal footing.
    This is what we survivors need equal footing to be heard and the freedom not to live in fear so that we can speak.

  • LS yes I agree wholeheartedly.
    But PD is where she is and ah we as me , myself, all are dealing with being on a sometimes enforced trauma journey, sometimes a it seemed a good idea at the time journey and the rage of accepting what has happened to us in loss is a bumpy road of traveling. Sometimes we get pebbles or stones, sometimes an oasis of support here and other places. Dialogue especially using this online type of tool is not easy. We do not have eye contact , we do not have an implicit learned 5 second delay. I think the old idea of Tabla Rasa holds here. Sometimes , we write from the emotion in the forefront of our souls with no holds barred and that can be a good or it can be hurtful or mean. I certainly have done it and I apologize. I am trying hard to incorporate into my cognition a five second or maybe two minute warning posting.
    But since we are witnesses to or survivors of or experiencing several different levels of trauma – it just not easy but Alex and others have shown a light down a path we all most design for ourselves. Disagreements are part of life and learning how to handle them in kindness an Art.

  • Ann , your story and your mother’s was hard to read but glad you wrote it and shared.
    Medicine really ignores the female and I really wonder what really is going on in female bodies. I also wonder about trauma and stress in our bodies and in pregnancy.
    I would suggest you look into your parent’s family histories to see if that played a role in both how your father handled things and how your mother felt about pregnancy.
    There are so many silences in the female world about this area and the medical world has greatly illserved families by their chemical interventions.

  • This was interesting and a worthwhile read especially about the Maori.
    On the discussion of childhood and parenting- sometimes the issues were difficult with I would guess integenerstional trauma which was discussed briefly and no good systemic way of helpful interventions. I am thinking of my mother’s friend who had a very rambunctious child. As she was talking on the phone she would describe what was going on/ he’s hanging from the chandelier now, he’s ……… I also experienced this with a friend of my own age different behavior but what to do?
    I am not sure if this child of my mother’s friend was the same one who on his own went to explore an empty house without telling anyone and was found dead three days later from a fall in the house.
    The trust that folks put in the helping professions and systems has been broken in small and large ways. Marian Wright Elderman ‘s Children Defense Fund idea should be broadened to all our communities and at all levels of society. Rambunctiousness can be a sign of future greatness and we all deserve to have our own owners get supported and when needed helped out.

  • Don , glad to hear your voice. I am very leery of any social media these days. But if you feel it works for you, great.
    PD. Your thoughts are important but I am going to say one needs to merge with other causes that touch on your own. Politics can make strange bedfellows and one most always be aware of what is liable to happen underneath the covers.
    In our country, we now have children and or families held and experiencing much of what we survivors have experienced in a similar but different realm.
    If we all in our various viewpoints consolidated around helping these people out it would be a win / win situation. No politician or founder or professional can understand their experiences – but we can. If we help then we can gain legitimacy for or own past histories. And then our voices cannot but helped but to be acknowledged.
    And fighting for another cause sometimes is just less triggering and can energize instead pull one down in the crap.
    I think PD this is what happened in the femanist beginnings. They fought against the instituting of slavery and then realized oh there are other forms of slavery as well. But the anti slavery campaign gave females a field to begin to gain creedence.
    And we are still fighting for equality for females and other gender issues, and on and on for racism and environmental issues and there is an infinite number I fear at times. But something to focus on and get out of one’s own pain. But maybe a way forward with a possibility of real change and more than just small pats on the head and a treat or two.
    And maybe pick a cause any cause and walk into it and or then at a good time – I know this because I have experienced being held without freedom to leave and then maybe the fruit will be ripe to be picked.

  • Robert, what can I say here?
    You are spouting old stuff here behind the curtain of an accomplished Social Work career.
    However,
    You knew when you entered Social Work, it would not be what administration level you would achieve but how high could you manage playing the political game. You were male and you were white. You did well.
    Most folks here are unaware that Social Work originated with mostly white rich women but not all, not all. Emma Lazurus of the Statue of Liberty fame was one I would guess – who just began working in the tenements. Jane Addams and others pushed to get it recognized as a real profession. And then 1960’s?the administration role went almost all male. There were some females in my time but the stats screwed male.
    I think in the 1930’s and later some of the male social workers left for other professions, in the legal and medical realms. For awhile, in my era, there were JD/MSW degrees but that would create problems maybe?
    What I suspect you know and what you write here I would guess are two different things- the washed laundry hanging outside or the dirty laundry hidden in the attic with the dead skeletons.
    These are the topics I would hope we could get from you if you decide to climb down and unzipp the curtain and pull out the hidden laundry and finally get it washed and bury the dead with all due dignity and respect.
    1) Sex abuse of clients in all the associated agencies. This happened with the entire spectrum off staff. Not all agencies, and not all staff who worked in any agency. It is still a verboten topic but it is there and it is time for it to come out.
    And yes, one never knew who, what, when, where, and how until one stumbled upon it by hook or by crook but it is and was an issue.
    2) Impaired professionals. Whether through trauma- primary, secondary, or tertiary experiences it is there and so often not treated fairly.
    Substance abuse issues. How to handle and what really are the stats here?
    3) How to handle abuse and neglect by unliscenced staff members in institutions or agencies, or group homes for those who are deemed through age or disability as unable to care for oneself?
    And again, trauma plays a very large role here. Any caretaking can cause burnout or I would say secondary or tertiary trauma and how staff to the janitor and cooks are treated portends how the clients are treated. Abuse and neglect can be very much top down problems.
    4) Inability for the Social Work profession and perhaps others to own their own life traumas and own life recovery episodes. Why does one go into Social Work and in particular areas- we all have narratives that link us to our own or other life stories. Let’s tell them and not hide them. My best guess is that one of my respected Social Workers of all , worked with traumatized mothers for a reason- there was a need in her or a need in me that created a desire and yes sometimes a good deed or two because of that narrative.
    5) Use of Peers and Volunteers in agencies. This maybe probably should not be combined but both populations seem to have been poorly used at times. Again the concept of Famy Therapy or Organizational Theory or the old proverb about the fish head rotting first. Maybe not you since you have written here but I don’t know your state or locale so maybe there still is some sort of honor code in the so called Mental Health professions.

    6) In my times in the system as a person supposedly in need – I was pushed in and did not walk into it because so called friends were concerned and had no idea I was actively getting support for the traumas in my life but they took it upon themselves not only to intervene in my own agency but to intervene in my husband’s and mother’s.
    They also had no idea of my professional knowledge base and that I would never ever do to a client or human being what they did to me.
    And the worst part was I sustained serious trauma from their interventions and actions and the treatment was just as damaging or worse. I found out often in life if something happened to me I am usually not alone
    7) And my guess is trauma is not the end all or entire issue. There are so many possibilities in our world for people to enter altered states.
    So in light of all this, I request you and others in positions of power to wade in the wasters and get off the boats you all are riding.
    Create a paragraph of “ I have stains on my hands ect…
    Create bridges instead of walls.
    Create truth not more baggage.
    And please read RFK’s address to the folks on the night of MLK Jr’s death.
    There were no acts of violence in that city, the only city in the nation not to be affected by traumatic violence.
    It can be accomplished. You all have st least one example.Make it so.

  • It was an interesting part of your memoir to read, thanks Julie.
    They used to be aware and talk about Lithium Toxicity but I haven’t heard folks use this phrase.
    I experienced it – confusion, loose bowels, and instead of being medically treated was placed in seclusion and then transferred to the highly monitored back unit where aides were paid to chart our movements.
    It wasn’t until I obtained my records that I saw Lithium Toxity written over another diagnosis and the plan was for nursing home placement. An aide mentioned it to me.
    This hospital was part of the multinational alaphabet soup corporation that has taken over many of the orginislly small psychiatric institutions. Most of my professional colleagues left after they saw what was happening.
    You should write a Manuel for folks and for their families.
    The whole pediatric bipolar stuff in my mind is or borders on child abuse or neglect. I never thought I would ever have to say that. It just doesn’t make any sense except for profit.
    And again- where are the professional vpiices here?
    We still are in echo chamber land.

  • And Ann where is your voice here?
    This thread is symbolic of one of the many issues we all as a world are dealing with.
    In the light of all of the blogs of abuse and medical malpractice there still is no professional voice of apology. And there’s the rub isn’t it? In our litegeous society this could prove problematic but since Hugh and Ann are in their senior years maybe not so much?
    When they were young there was Heinz Kohut a WWII refugee who came to the states and developed Self Psychology – the best to come out was therapy as bike riding. It was quickly quashed.
    The onus of working with insurance companies and yes I did as well is still part and parcel of the dialogue that has not been addressed. Adult Adjustment Disorder but they would only make payments for 10 visits or so and thus up the annuity to a different label with more payments.
    The other route to go was private pay but two issues – elitist and what about abuse and neglect issues? Very dicey!
    And what about Social Justice?
    Again white therapists talking about what seems fairly well off clients.
    If you are both going to own nonauthartarianism then be real and honest and take full responsibility.
    And where are the comments from Ann and Hugh and others on the psych survivors’s blogs?
    Again rampant discrimination.
    There is nothing wrong with admitting error or mistakes from either ignorance or really bad idea.
    Mistakes are how humans learn.
    Unfortunately, we have lost the ability to truth for the base needs of greed and profit. And we all are paying the price.

  • The academic jargon and kowtowing to the academic world creates walls to those in mh systems, those survivors of said systems, and the general folks on the street.
    They need to honor and boldly hold the voice of the survivors in their circle or it will all be lost. All together or not.
    They also before doing this need to recognize, accept ,hear the damages inflicted on those who sought help or were forced or prodded to “seek help.”
    One cannot change until the elements of abuse and neglect and violations are acknowledged and amends made.
    One way to look at the system is a ritual gone rotten. This takes on the whole history of caring for others.
    “ It takes a ritual to repair a failed ritual. It also takes a person directly responsible for the failure to right the wrong. Acknowledgement of error is not error…….”
    Ritual
    Power, Healing, and Community
    Malidoma Patrice Some

  • Andrea Dworkin’s femanist writings on abuse and rape fit well into the anti- psychiatry movement. Women were not believed. All Our Trials by Emily L. Thurman takes onacurrent and broader view on female incarceration.
    Violence against any human. We see this with the weapons industry and other corrupt entities with a full out repression of truth and facts.
    There actually is a psychiatrist that sees racism and inequality as factors writing out of Vanderbilt. Go figure.
    We have to deal with crime victims, we have to deal with the human tragicomedy of life in war, and poverty and history so there will ALWAYS be that.
    But the systems as it is now and has been – no.
    There needs to be a quashing of DSM and the creation of a process of being unlabeled. Even with HIPPA – if you give a medical professional a list of meds you are on – dead in the water.
    SSD status – red flag and oh my if the police come to your house.
    Also the stoppage of mental health checks by safety forces. There are ways and there are ways to talk about fears of a person in crisis. And then the ER portal. Both present options are no win situations and not help.

  • I was not able to read the blog. As a retired LISW and a psychiatric survivor I am put off by one therapist talking with another. This is another co option of psych survivors and other folk’s personal narratives for mental health professionals fame and profit or publishing rights. At least this is how I have come to view the books and ect.
    It’s a sticky wicket and I think we need dialogue.
    The other issue is we psych survivors have no diagnostic label expungement process as our fellow citizens do with legal crime past labels.
    If we could dialogue as in a round table yes.

  • PacificDawn, wow I like your comments but sometimes disagree. Your bringing up of the feminist perspective is right on target. Yes but or maybe and so……
    Andrea Dworkun seems to fit in here as well as Andre Lorde and Kate Millet and somehow the kids of Parkland especially the young female who said so beautifully “ I call BS.”
    Although Andrea was a feminist she also acknowledge – hey I like those male writers- to her great loss. She lost out on the support of other feminists because she deigned to say yeah Joyce was a good writer.
    Same in the movements here. Sometimes folks on the so called other side have good thoughts.
    One needs to realize in Nazi Germany there were folks who tried to take down Hitler. And there was Schindler and Walkenberg and Corrie Ten Boom. And oh Kathe Kollowitz.
    Name a time, place, and group and yes even as Nero fiddled I would bet my life there were some folks who said this is f’d and tried to do what they could. Emphasis on tried and what they could do.
    Keep on posting! And keep on, on the journey. Bilbo Baghins poem-/ The Road Goes On and Tolkien WWI vet all his brigade simply totally disappeared fighting in the trenches. He got lucky getting sick and evacuation. Orcs are Trauma based.

  • This as been a very interesting thread to read. The historical aspect of the history of survivors is so important. It needs an almost horizontal graphic timeline to show when and where what happened over the last say 60 years.
    I was not surprised about the article not being perfect. It was what I expected under the circumstances.
    The artistic community is so invested in the use of the system for support.
    One forgets that T. S. Eliot and others broke down and then recovered and lived their lives. Not sure of the extant of involvement he had but especially since his first wife had terrible issues but he had his own and managed.
    Almost every artist creates from seeds or a seed of trauma. And how to deal with trauma?
    Do we a witness to hear our story?
    Do we need a tool box?
    Since trauma has a human bodily component what is it is not possible?
    And do witnesses to folks in trauma need support as well?
    Dialogue though slow and imperfect is the only way to go and I think one of the better ways if we are starting to not think and just feel to have tools to use so that we can opt out and then rejoin the dialogue.
    And yes emotions are part and parcel of being human. We as a species have never figured out fantastic ways of coping with all of them and if we do find a tool or two damn the powers that be snatch them up and hide them or worst of all use the tools for their own nefarious forces.
    I would like to see side by side work.
    So each group can do their best to be heard and deciminate the most powerful needed to be heard information.

  • I really appreciate the process of journey you went through , Sandy.
    There should be some sort of ethical framework for journalists in how to write on disability issues and a thorough and solid understanding taught in every journalism and or creative writing school on the whole world of disibties and civil rights, and ADA, and a deep understanding of the world history.
    At one time, my local paper had a column about disability and I think she had her own story with the disability world which if one is truthful we all have.
    The word skizophrenic is a firework word. There is so little understanding and so much FEAR.
    There needs to be a dialogue and folks journalists, politicians, clergy, neighbors, relatives need to admit and own up to the fear.
    Yeah as in Alex’s story the journalist should have admitted to being afraid to talk to him instead of acting out his fear and dropping the opportunity to do good journalism.
    It would help to have disabled journalists of all ilks in every journalistic medium or for them to acknowledge it.
    Also if writers or journalists use people’sstories and profit off them there needs to be a form of reimbursement to the individual folks and one also has to acknowledge having one’s story come out can have both positive and negative effects and what to do about the negative effects?
    I would like to read about you and your uncle and the relationship. The uncomfortable parts and the comfortable parts.
    And the dx part which has done such great damage that needs to be addressed.
    And trauma and how we as as a world and society deal with all of its multifaceted layers.
    How did and why did your uncle get labeled? And what was the real story ?

  • Julie, I was glad to see your writing posted and really liked it and knowing your comments helped put a lot in context for me.
    Since I was in the profession and still are around folks who have different beliefs I have had to agree to disagree but your account is helpful for others to read in that other framework.
    The historical account of the changes in treatment yes! Some would say prison is still prison with pianos but at least there was an outlet if nothing else.
    I really liked your kudos to your parents. I still remember my parents picking me up at the horrorific day treatment program and wanting just to cry because the whole situation was so f’d up and I couldn’t figure a way out.
    And it is like an itch one wants to keep scratching there has to be SOMETHING and many times there just isn’t.
    I went to grad school on the east coast and literally it was my therapist says this my therapist says that.And I knew folks who were in until their therapist died.
    Again whatever works for folks but that requires money and hours and hours and I tried but so much focus on self.
    As an LISW, I told folks my job is to put myself out of business.And they were in the navigator ‘s seat and I was there for support and advice when really really stuck.
    No therapist I saw ever used those words or ideas with me. No one.
    The portrayal of NAMI. For many, it’s the only support out there.
    Your story is one facet of a very large prism.

  • Hi Cindi, thanks for writing this. Marci’s story is hard for me on several levels. So I will try to support in a way that is safe for me.
    I would suggest trying to find a MH professional who is very well acquintated with Selma Frauberg’s University of Michigan parenting work with mothers. Old but I know in the 1980’s there was an effort to get a directory by U of M with all the programs using her work. For those who don’t know she figured out parents engage with children via their own trauma and then problems happen so trauma based. Not sure if in this day and age any exist but having that background and then having a background that acknowledges the negative side effects that would cause an altered state in a mother – I wish there could be that professional. That perspective is key. In the program I worked in- meds were rarely used. She needs a professional that knows both inside and out.
    As a former person in system I would suggest Marci pick her battles with the unit staff. They carry the keys. And no matter how one feels about them and how they act they still carry the keys.
    It sounds like she has fallen into a viscous battle and there ain’t no way she is going to win by keeping up the fight.
    Been there, done that.
    Make the staff your friend. Give complements. And it ain’t easy and phew but it seems to be the only way out of her problem.
    One almost has to think of it as a strategy in and of itself. She can think whatever she wants in her head but keep it in her head.
    Folks in internment camps, concentration camps, prisons, all created coping strategies for living without any power and control.
    It can be done.
    My best guess is that she is a trigger for staff. Any parent has stories of almost sand what ifs and then knowing what I know or guess about staff they might be on the same chemicals she was on and wow internal emotional conflict.
    Another legal strategy is maybe civil right or something in that if staff is compromised how can they fairly treat a patient? Just a thought.
    Please let her know she is not alone and has support.

  • Stephan,yes I understand so well. And we who live in layers of Venn diagram life are burdened by what we knew and what we now know.
    I still would say there are always good folks but how, what , when, where, are always random occurrences. I have stories from the older generation of helpers like yours and myself though different paradigms but the sorrow remains the same.
    Barbara Kingsolver’s words from” Poisonwood Bible” are so helpful forgive yourself. Those of us that cared no matter how imperfect did things with what we thought was the best we could do. We are all time bound and knowledge bound.
    This is why I try to walk in kindness even with my anger because one day a person might see the light.
    When acts are done in nefarious and hurtful ways – a whole different story. And any – any institution not only have their weakness but there evils.
    The one thing my local paper once did right was to publish an anonymous op/ed from a doc trying to do amends.
    All professionals need this type of outlet.
    Sometimes, I would like to contact folks but I don’t know.
    Again having places of refuge or repair of trauma could do a wall of amends for folks.
    We could do so much- my greatest frustration.

  • When C Henry Kempe a German Post WWII immigrant “ discovered” the medical diagnosis of child abuse I do not think he ever imagined the system we have today.
    One needs to do a thorough and deep deep dive into the entire history of childhood and human development. The concept of children and wives as chattel. The institution of slavery of all kinds, throughout the world past and present.
    There were always moments of wokeness but always battered down and since the early eighties any advancement seems to have been drowned.
    I think the word genocide in terms of child welfare is not too harsh.
    And this is Child Welfare in all strata of American society. Being born in the 1 % is no guarantee of not being exposed to sexual abuse or other forms of child abuse as in neglect.
    One of the things that bothered me both as a mother and helping professional is the fact that child counselors are not required to ask permission to see a child in school. The carte blanche aspect is not best practice. There needs to be a total reworking of how to help children who are or have been in trauma life situations- a new and ethical paradigm.

  • Tim, good efffort but you are a babe in the woods.
    Why were you not taught of self advocacy in classeork? Professionals wonder why there are walls instead of bridges at times here on this site and in real life and part is the professionals miseducation and ignorance – not their fault but easy targets for our anger.
    The lack of dialogue commentary and the lack of here I am I want to help makes the walls much stronger than not. Also the admission I have been tbrough stuff. One doesn’t have to vomit but it helps to build trust and compassion the two building machines that break down walls.
    And self advocacy – failures and fear here. Also memoirs or telling your story to have used by someone else for their own profit- dicey stuff and I am unsure about all of that and my best guess – table it until other things happen.
    Self Advocacy also means self labeling.
    I was at a library and there was a big display on rape. Okay good to highlight but there are all sorts of rape with all genders and this was one gender based with only one source of help and it has the word rape in the agencies name.
    So like Tim here, babes in the woods.
    Survivors need to be at the table just like the idea behind the Paris Peace Talks.
    Until that happens self advocacy is compromised.
    The other issue is the folks behind the curtains the founders of all types and tropes. Until and when their voices are only part and parcel we will still be othered and marginalized even if we have the knowledge base to help change things in a better direction.
    One of my relatives had a brilliant idea for donations. They weren’t entirely awoke but their idea was to ask the agency what was really needed. Of course in a perfect world the task force of agency participants would be the go to voice to be heard. Someday.

  • I agree and it is one layer of many. Lots of professions hide the information, just like sexual abuse. A kind of global Catch 22 moment for all of us.
    Pat Conroyb wrote about the issues in military families so well and in himself contained the damage of trauma unresolved, though he tried hard to overcome all of it.
    I go back to the need for Trauma Centers and what hadn’t been discussed in depth prevention.
    The concept of working hard for the future in all areas of life, environmental, nutrition, ism reduction in all areas, education and human interactions.
    Just a full throttle beginning action would begin to alleviate the need for why bother with life assessment.
    What enraged me, is not that we don’t have the capacity or wealth it is the greed, selfishness, and willful ignorance of the people who literally could change the world but don’t and stand by worried about nonessentials while all of us are barely making it. In terms of epigenetics, we, if we survive, are creating more inter generational trauma in layers of past and current historical trauma.
    Anything that can change folks perceptions is great. With Laura’s piece I had no great expectations so was very pleased they didn’t pull “ A BeautifulmMind “ enforced lie.

  • I think John that with the forum we have here- it is very difficult to go into your life as it is for you now. You are reaching out here and seem to have some very spot on thinking with our American history. You also seem to be in distress and I and probably others can’t help you with all of it.
    I know when I was literally lost in anxiety due to trauma and who knows what else I had and still at times have a sense of not only all is not well but something is way off kilter.
    And most of us here would say duh but that is our world our individual lives are so unique. And we process our lives especially after trauma in different ways. I do not have a good sense of your life now just feel that every day is hard.
    When I was tangled in trauma old and new the best way to get myself through was the simple act of checking my body. Am I able to move my fingers and toes?
    Can I breathe? Can I move my knees and elbows?
    Can I scribble on a pad?
    CanI walk?
    Can I sit?
    We are unable to see your life as you live it but those are some simple things I did when things were really bad for me.
    My situation got better but is still hard.
    I just learned how to endure with life as it is. Nothing made sense, nothing seemed to get better.
    I am living a life option z. Not what I had hoped for in terms of life. Many of us and most humans are.
    One has to go second by second minute by minute. And if writing helps – go for it. I hope for better days for you.
    You are smart and perceptive and some of us share the same memories of the shift in the country. Dwelling on all that – I don’t know how helpful since the daddy’s are still ongoing. Again minute by minute. My latest thought there are only so many worms in a can of worms. They are of a limited quantity!
    Thinking very small and acting in small ways. Folks do this in psych units. If nothing else one learns to keep going though not the keep going one dreamt of but whatever works for the moments.

  • Hi there Johnchristine,
    Sounds like this spot really was traumatic for you. I am sorry that you have had such a very difficult time. It never should have happened and it is not fair.
    TD symptoms are awful. I developed Parkinsonism. Bad enough.
    And I have heard folks relate how their parents pathologized them and none of the professionals were able to see through the actual truth.
    Ohio used to have an Empowerment Coalition but no more. I have no idea what happened or why or where they are now. I think the website is still up.
    There are other places in the country to move to though even globally it seems things are hard.
    I found Tai Chi, yoga, walking, reiki, art, music helpful things to do in community or online.
    Start doing some research and check all things out there may be some help.
    Reading if you can, on the neuroleptic reading was difficult and my ability to read as I did has been compromised but hard to say because of feeling anxious or lingering affects of treatment.
    OMT in my old church community with the ladies guild there was a woman who for years ran what they called the sunshine commity- she would keep her ears to the ground and eyes above the horizon for anyone that might need a card to be sent for a variety of reasons.
    It was small and simple but when oneis in hardship even a little bit helps
    One of the hard things for me is to hear folks pain and what does MIA have responsibility for?
    We all are people of the Great Human Trauma and even if the nonidentified or professionals do not identify as such with those of us who do I bet my life they are part and parcel- either they are in denial or they for whatever reason are not able to admit to whatever.
    One human cannot go through ten years of life without experiencing trauma and trauma can be living the life of the idle rich different than poverty or abuse but one can have millions and without love really what can any human become?
    It would be nice someday to have some sort of way to cope with the pain of some of the articles.
    It seems folks are trying very hard but maybe some sunshine in a very small way might help.

  • I stand corrected – knew it just didn’t put it down.
    I still can’t go all out but I can enumerate and detail the abject awfulness of much of psychiatry.
    Until we come up with a way to handle trauma in a better way there is not much – unless you have lots of money to recover from rape, some types of military service, parenthood, substance abuse and there currently no systemic change agents on all the isms of present and past times. No restorative justice at the present time and with legal entities being so terribly prejudiced no way to sue for true and real medical malpractice.
    And yes, much of the so called left bought and drank the cool aid of medication thanks to those at the medical advertising hall of fame. Yes it’s real and what great humans and humanitarians. Dr Salk and Sabin are so proud of you all!
    And neuroadvertising- brilliant name and truth so there is that aspect as well.
    Lobsters starting cooking in tepid water – all of us.
    If neurologists had better personalities maybe they could do what Lee suggests. One really doesn’t need a MD degree just the educational background and awareness and the capacity to heal in the best sense of the word.

  • Some thoughts. Lee’s talking points on what entails an interview are spot on. As far as my experience has been as a professional and then so called patient after 2001 there were no trainings in any type of interviewing and much historical information was lost or quashed.

    My thoughts for all the professionals I saw where really? really ? you are trained professional? My developmentally disabled relative could do a better job in the area of compassion and narrative techniques.
    Alex’s take on attorney’s yes but I would extend that to any profession today the old adage a few bad apples is reversed there are a few good apples and when you are lucky to meet them you want st least I do- kiss the ground they walk on.
    Since I have myself in so many places and groups- a living Venn diagram – I thought of a new way of thinking about the anti stuff.
    Slavery- the abolitionists couldn’t just make it go away until the Emancipation Proclamation. It existed on a minute by minute basis. They couldn’t stop the separating of families, the abuses, and the inflection of trauma that some folks knew would take generations to resolve.
    And then when it did come – it continued though in a more concealed and more heinous? way with the Restoration and Jim Crow life.
    There are many ways to be a slave.
    So again I go to the fact that fespite my outrage- good for a igniting but never good as a life support system – there has to be some sort of contact.
    Maybe Rumi – Out there beyond the field of right and wrong I will meet you there.

  • Good questions!
    Kim
    What is your source of knowledge of post party’s depression?
    Have you read any feminist, literary, anthropological, or global history as they relate to female sexuality?
    Have you read any writings of trauma?
    Do you know what happened to mothers in concentration camps, slave ships, on the forced marches of the First Nation Trails of Tears- not one but many?
    Have you studied with someone like Klauss and Kennel or their today type of researcher on attachment and mother/ infant bonding?
    Are you aware of Marisn Wright Elderman and The Children’s Defense Fund?
    And why no mention of the invisible infant of the man who you do ardently want to help?
    What is your religious background?
    What is your socio- economic background?
    Hav you traveled and visited any type of mother child programs outside of the United States.
    How exactly did you get on board?
    What was your path and who allowed you a seat?
    Do you have any reporting on the diversity compositions of your group?
    How many African American and or First zNation professionals? How about those from Asian backgrounds? What about gender diversity?
    Have you or your group had any intense training on ethics?
    Have you or your group aware of the history of public health and ethics?
    If you have had bioethical training- who what when and where and who provided the funding? Was it government funded or made through Big Pharma?
    Have you ever studied racism or inequality or environmental climatology?
    Have you read Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring and thought maybe she was touching on the tip of at least one iceberg?
    At least by writing this you may be waking up and may be able to actually think outside the box.
    Have you any female elders to consult with?
    In Thornton Wilder’s Theopolious North his protagonist had a circle of all types of human companions. They held him in good staid.
    There is an old adage
    If Momma ain’t happy nobody is happy in our global systems so many mothers are not happy and it is not their fault.
    Are you coregeous enough to see the light and see this a systemic failure of great proportions or will you be another voice that fades into the winds?

  • This really lost me Eric. If I were an up and coming helper I would be turned off and as a retired LISW with twenty years of post graduate experience in a variety of settings you lost me big time.
    I would urge you to buy or get at your local university library
    Anthony Stoer The Art of Psychtherapy
    Selma Fraiberg The Magic Years
    Bessel van der Klerk The Body Keeps the Score
    Also get the writings of survivors and do a thorough history of the history of psychotherapy. Bob’s books and others.
    There are massive amounts.
    Then instead of writing I would have you run not walk to either a homeless shelter, food pantry, group home, and spend time with folks – human to human – eye to eye- and listen and only talk for etiquette sake and to ask questions,
    Then maybe your local prison ministry for either the prisoners and or their families.
    Many great writers teach classes- you might want to research which regional literati teach prison classes and they could assist you in at least observing.
    Then maybe go to a Vet center and listen. Then maybe a nursing home.
    After 9/11 Mr Rogers had a discussion on its trauma for his audience. He quoted his mother saying when you need help go to the helpers.
    Sometimes the helpers YOU NEED are not in positions of power, sometimes they are the riff raff and woe to those of us who do not hear and honor their stories.
    I would be interested in hearing in your. next MIA blog about which folks who choose to learn from and your reactions and lessons learned in.., I had no idea!….. and not their stories you decided to incorporate.

  • Well Kelly better late to the table than not at all. I would say you were miseducated. There has been a phalanx and plethora of information on females that has been dumped, washed, trounced on ect.
    If Klaus and Kennel knew of this 60 hour treatment IV ( and I betcha no breastfeeding allowed or what would be the ramifications to the child? Present and or future?) they would be gobsmacked.
    Selma Fraiberg and the unknown list of indegnious midwives from all over the globe and human history would be gobsmacked as well.
    Penelope Leach and others and btw no male would stand for that type of treatment time and type if one were a CEO or CFO or Crime Syndicate Boss.
    Parkland community just suffered their second post massacre suicide. I am sure there have been others among our history of gun murders both small and large- we just are too broken to connect with the cans of worms that we are living through these days.
    And if we as a species are to survive it starts with the concept of pregnancy and beyond and what may be seen as sexist but I will put it out here. How male infants and children are raised.
    How one is raised if one is seen by parents, or peers, or educators, as other.
    Trauma and it’s worlds and human development we need not only to see the arc of history but the arch of justice and mercy that needs to be an inherent essential part of any and all human communities.
    Glad you saw the light about treatment.
    We need a chorus.

  • Thanks Sera and all.
    These are my thoughts and experiences in my locale.
    We have a very strong medical research and NAMI presence though in some places peers ran some of the MH Centers and once upon a time we had a regional peer coalition.
    What has happened would be a news story that would be picked up by multiple media outlets about someone in a crisis with an altered mental status with police and red lights flashing and the statement”we hope they get the treatment they need.”
    The deaths of urban folks in similar situations. would not be highlighted.
    But a year later, just in time for a NAMI event there would be a “I have found the light! news story about the wonders of medication.
    It would be the so called party line.
    There would be no allowance what was happening to cause a crisis or discussion of how professionals actually treat trauma, or the varigities of a person with high level of sensitivities, or what actually does constitute a religious and or spiritual experience, and most lacking of all the concept of total recovery and how that concept has been totally quashed by the systems involved.
    When given an actual pulpit it becomes recovery porn and not the beginning of an in-depth investigation of the folks behind the curtain who have manipulated the perspectives of so much of society.
    And because of those folks behind the curtain manipulations other folks have no idea of their presence and are taken in.
    When the snake oil salesmen are the only help in town one is exploited by trying to help oneself or others with his help because it’s the only show in town. One can’t be helped with trauma or whatever systemic ills if even the mental and verbal constructs are not allowed to see the light of day.
    How to remove the curtains?
    And this point , I would be happy for truth in advertising or lending type of legal recourses.

  • There is also brain tumors both benign and malignant mistaken for so called “ mental health behavioral conditions.”
    My one LISW friend had a lose relative who had mixed up days and nights and function completely sparely from the partner and family. An expert from a leading university was consulted and sorry no help available. It was only after a happenstance medical emergency that involved a brain MRI that the benign tumor was discovered. Fifteen years of loss of life and this family had many members in the medical professions.
    A patient on the unit I worked was considered “ borderline” because of chronic complaints of headaches then after a ER visit with nonstop vomiting ah! malignant brain tumor was discovered.
    And then there was the Ohd/ MD student working in rotation who was sent to Psychiatry for issues because his concerns about his heart – “ all in his head” – he dropped down in the psych unit floor unconscious no med cart available because psych unit – do they really need one? Thorastic surgeons were seen by Socisl Service Worker to be laughing at a Code Blue called on the psyh unit floor.
    It was the founder of the Burn zI it who ran down four or so flights of stairs who responded to the Code and opened up – literally the student’s chest to do open heart massage but it was too late the oxygen depravation had already caused too much damage.
    I had heard the burn unit surgeon speak at a college class- trauma – all the burn unit folks were facing trauma. One had to be very brave to work within the burn unit. Hard, hard treatment and life long disfiguration and adjustment to life before and life after.
    Later on after my psych unit experiences , I learned my father had mentored the burn unit surgeon.
    To think that there were actual physicians who went above and beyond medical duty and trained others into the realm of not only do no harm but do whatever you can when you can and to hold onto the memories of how I was treated, especially now this month when zI was told by an aide the plan was for me to go into a nursing home and then later to find upon reading my medical records there was Lithium Toxity and Iliterallt could have died but no told me.
    I live with the memories of that and other hospitalizations and the FEAR – ANY DAY the police could AGAIN come knocking and the fear I could not as The Hets in West Side Stiry sing to each other “ Kerp Cool, man Jero Cool.
    I have no gang. Silence in the family and no talk of anything but pretend. Life is Winderful. No Emotions- nada nada burn soul killing nada.
    And other places? Canada, East Coast, Red State,Blue State, Oz. Nada.
    I exist in the whispers of perhaps better days. I cannot believe better will ever come.
    The twenty years of fairly stellar post grad SW is constantly erased by the female staff member who called me the bipolar bitch or the eyes of the nurse who licked me in seclusion.
    As. acimmitted pacifist I fight each day not to let Hate overwhelm me but if nothing my MH experience even with counselors who did no basically no harm and just shot the breeze with no treatment I have learned to hate all of them and especially myself for ALLIWING myself to be taken in.
    I trust no one because will you call the cops on me?
    Woody Guthrie – the BEOMEd psych residents who supposedly did a MH assessment and came from somewhere in the patriarchal Middle East had no idea of who he was. A Trump tenant and great American folksinger.
    Stupid stupid and more stupid.

  • We are talking here of many things – everyone area vitally important DSM abolishment, the human body and its synergy with the evionment, trauma and how the human body reacts in all its various systemic and mircrobiological ways, the professional medical establishment- including others.
    I would like to see a Timeline pre and post Industrial Age.
    This would help with focusing on public health issues that can lead or have led to psychiatric intervention.
    Pre industrial worlds didnot require literacy, many folks lived their entire lives in one place and human environmental interactions were less negative as they are now.
    The research presented so often is not that examplary. It was one of the reasons in the mid 1980’s I just stopped reading any academic journals between the topics and shoddy standards it was literally a waste of time. This of course led to Big Parma sales rep interventions. How very lucky for Big Pharma to have leading academic journals start losing its way. And every time a solid piece actually emerged, it was quashed.
    That in and of itself would be another interesting timeline graph.
    BTW anyone familiar with diabetes knows when a person is hyper or hypoglycemic behavior changes. It has been known for police to arrest a diabetic in actual medical crisis for drunken driving.
    We need to raze the Medical and Science houses to their foundations and start over.Keep any solid beams and throw out all the rotten wood and bent rusty nails.

  • Thanks and this was a perceptive overview.
    I, of course, have some thoughts from my own perspective on several levels.
    Children are not just affected by family and economics / it is the world as it is for them and us.
    The Social Work role is diffuse who are you advocating for? Both parents and children need their own advocates.
    School counselors in my locale could see students without parental permissions.
    I have and had concerns with this.
    PTA- this is an issue and the Social Service/ Psychology fields have staid out of it to the determinant of the school community at times.
    So much depends on who is who and where is where.
    Title I in the US had Social Work and Parent Councils attached to it at one time but Federal funding became an issue.
    Open Air Schools pre WWI in the US did cater to thq health and family situations with the idea of TB prevention.1

  • I am commenting here just for the heck of it.
    The idea of keeping folks down and dependent- in the DD field parents were also involved but I never got the icky affect I felt in some of the NAMI contacts I had.
    Folks wanted and where pleased with their independence.
    Getting a job was a good thing. Again the monetary factor and DD is easily identifiable because it’s real and kids are a good PR for levy’s.
    In fact, the DD system went bad in the opposite direction. One could not stay at the county workshop – costs money! One had to progress to private employment whether that was in the best interest of the human being involved. Workshops also had a devoted rec staff and off time activities.
    Voc rehab for those with MH issues in my locale closed down or streamlined .
    There were groups of physically challenged folks who protested and eventually got public transportation. It was a hard fought gain.
    When humans make other folks uncomfortable because of their distress and the raison d’entre is unknown or very complex and with our fear based society the control freaks can jump right in.

  • These called study is comparing apples to oranges. One cannot hope to research schools when Western European and American education are so staggeringly different. Different year schedule, different history, different inequality factors, different environmental factors. Mozart’s grandfather lived in “ public housing” in Germany and as I recall, it was still a solid well built apartment complex. Not do for those living in some HUD housing today in the States.
    I worked in schools and the fear , stress, curriculum issues, home, life, the isms that kids are so aware of were there and that was before school shootings became a regular part of the scenery. Again not do for Western Europe or any other global school system.
    And the research should not be on problems but how kids survive and find ways to survive the lives we have given them. So many are lost through no fault of their own.

  • Thanks for this. One view and still so many more to have highlighted.
    There really should be a White House Conference on Trauma along with Congressional Hearings and possibly a new department that would work on an interdepartmental level providing education to all the powers and others that be. Perhaps a type of “ white” or maybe “ rainbow” paper that would cut to the basics so that the information would be easily accessible to all.
    And also s long as we are still the subject of the month club maybe a trauma month.

  • Bruce, you certainly get your point across for our current times but I have a few thoughts for further expansion and thinking.
    The other side of this is Aesculypian Authority which dates back before Hippocrates in the time of healing temples with rites and rituals.
    Siegler and Osmond in their book of the same title write on this.
    At one time medicine was considered both an art and science and there was a subset subtle community contract Icede power to you to help me heal.
    Emphasis on the I here. This was the so called patient allowing for a certain limited transfer of power.
    What you describe is the complete overtaking of all power and control and intertwined bad care, treatment, and so called chemical help in many areas of modern day medicine so untruths for pure profit. The contract be damned.
    Interestingly the Rod of Aesculpian and the Cadeuceus are two intirely different symbols now used interchangeably since WWI due to human error.
    That no one in the realm of the powers that be has never even deigned to figure this is beyond my ken but makes so much sense to the question of now. Silly docs!
    Coming from a medical family and then working at a teaching hospital I could feel the difference and painfully see the difference between generations. Not at all – all the time but the trend of power and control and willful ignorance of much was apparent.
    And to be fair, medical education play a large role in this
    During WW II certain magnet schools were used to pipeline docs to war. Streamlined classes and new courses and then the war ended and nothing but the vets themselves were left if any wisdom gained.
    I grew up with this doc was a POW in Japan – he came back changed- this doc was Polish but was going to med school in England and joined the RAF, many had seen much trauma then there were the Korean War vets, and Vietnam Vets.
    There was a stream of wisdom gained through trauma – some not all.
    What I observed as an employee and then as a patient for so called MH treatment was what you described.
    But many interns and residents were coming from privilege and the path to medical school seemed set on what neighborhood you entered kindergarten.
    It was like at a family wake an extended family friend was asking me well
    what do you say? And I was like been doing this for decades and yeah it ain’t easy but I worked this out by myself at ten. And maybe family cut offs- total non exposure to trauma- both could be true.
    I don’t know how this evolved in its entirety but change cane and it was bad. May be cog in the wheel and kick the next one in line and Last is the patient and the most feared is the MH patient. Allowable stigma- free ride.
    And those that come in – some of the best never even tried because wrong neighborhood.
    Not to say Trauma is a good thing. Ask any person whose parent or parents endured trauma and even the ones who overcame not easy but it can be used for wisdom.
    I think wise medical treatment professionals are few and far between.
    Also I’d thry are- they too are trapped in the system that is.
    BTW Pharma sales rep massaged the docs giving them treats making them blind and beholden. Great, great sales strategy.

  • Lawerence or Larry? My reaction is different because I lived in the edges of white suburban privilege. This is the population that fits your writing – other folks a whole and completely different story but INTERSECTIONALITY the threads are there sometimes hidden by life sometimes deliberately hidden with harm to ALL.
    Females- mother’s are targeted by Pharma the ads 60% female patients and oh so suburban. Literature – advertising from big and small medical clinics.
    When I had my non professional intervention in was two white suburban mothers. A friend had earlier said she had started taking so called medicine so the hole in the dike.
    Also females were beginning to see issues – you really can’t have it all and if you do there is a huge price despite what it looks like from the outside. Trauma and pill popping – Valium was called mother’s little helper.
    If you talk to old 12 steppers no drugs but they had so many using them and being given them from docs and rehab centers most just gave up and went on biting their tongue.
    Some locals have a plethora of12 step groups of all kinds and there were others groups for awhile but funding for groups took a big hit and trauma and its subsequent issues and again – the magic of chemistry- Little did we know it was all a con.
    There there is the pain issue and sports and sex abuse. I could go on.
    Meanwhile in the urban areas hard times even more so. Not one job but three. No work time always on call. More guns, more anger, more police doing really harmful stuff.
    And the politicians going on their merry way because well – good health right No on call surprises, job networking, book deals. A cafeteria and gym – Congress – not sure about state capitols.
    This is a mosaic of an octupos so I am thinking in some ways better not get angry at the person carrying ONE PIECE of this multi- dimensional Greek tragedy.
    And I know triggers. I know too well.
    Ah decorum. How your mother if she wasn’t too traumatized by life would want her adult child to act and if you didn’t have one a godmother or any elderly person one could respect.
    And yes too the holder of the mosaic piece needs to have that same since only more so. The acknowledgement that folks have been harmed and the ability to if not actually hold hands to do it verbal soul to soul – we instead of me sitting in the high elevation of slsohbet soup.
    Sorry sometimes I just can’t stay silent.

  • Rachel777
    There were anti drug docs but they kept with the status quote because NO ONE knew how to stop them once they were taken as a regime.
    Behind closed doors one of the docs challenged the staff to take a Haldo or whatever chemical and NO ONE DID.
    The “ story” was two years with compliance and no hospitalizations. And when it did happen there were excuses hiding their ignorance.
    When I was given medication, part of me thought fine Show Me, Show Me Know and after years lost and awful experiences yeah my instinct was right not any type of panacea at best nightmare at worst.
    However people do seek these chemicals. No one has addressed the word of mouth part of this I tried it and it worked white suburban folks and then the kids stole the meds and some bad things happened.
    I think there are some folks who knows why that it is helpful but I don’t understand why and no one knows.
    There are no longitudinal studies at all.
    But it is clear big Pharma and the FDA were actively in greed mode. They didn’t care at all.
    If we are ever to truly have a round table there has to be all encompassing dialogue and truth in lending – really some of the blogs I don’t know.
    I am trying hard to withdraw and rest for awhile from thinking on all of this.
    Hopefully , I wouldn’t be triggered and I can just focus on now not the past. Tincture of Time the best script written after TLC.

  • Ah Ed you have a treasure to give. DE Winnicot! I wa told when a child was not cooperating he would say / you know this isn’t fun let’s doodle.
    Many of us here have been deeply wounded but there were folks who did try to help not super well but they took a caring approach – too few and too hidden.
    I for one would be interested in hearing your experiences and thoughts.

  • As a retired LISW with over twenty years working in urban and other areas and well acquainted with treatment from both sides of the desk, this seems like a conversation from eh ? 1990?
    It is good to see a dialogue format but have you been reading what is out there and are you into empowerment, social justice of all tropes, and trauma?
    An overview of past pdych meds? Really?
    What about family history and culture?
    If one’s so called client has a Jewish background wish in terms of intergenerstional trauma , same and even more so for African Americans, Hispanics, and First Nation folks and one cannot forget the Armenian Genocide.
    Then there is the conflagration of layers of complex trauma when intergenerstional trauma is overlaid with victims turning into aggressors. Read “ To Kill a Mocking Bird” Ella May was taped by her “ white trash” father who MADE her accuse an innocent black man. Alice Walker’s “ The Color Purple” showed in fine detail a father’s rape of his daughter. Both men tragically affected by cultural history and using the only power they felt they had sex to enforce control.
    Add to this , so many folks go to their graves without being able to tell about abuse episodes.
    Then there is the why some folks endure and become assets to the world and others like these male fictional characters become part of the great morass.
    Psych meds are ways to control and if you want we all here could share ways of coping without loads of meds or none at all.
    I will be hoping for some interactive feedback. A true dialogue is multi sided.

  • Thanks for this Anders. I found new and interesting facts from your writing.
    It would be really interesting to do a blog with a timeline graphic from the start of the first diagnosing to now. There has been so much changing. When I started becoming aware my view was that this was a DD issues and this persisted with PDD . There also was a book Son Rise by Barry Kaufman and I had heard stories of total transformations. I would also like to see environmental toxins and other data in the timeline. Rachel Carson, I think only touched the top of the iceberg.
    Global info too!
    Then there is the whole yes sensory integration issue The Spirited Child was a big book in the day.
    Artists of all ills have that and in some places I have heard we are all in the spectrum.
    Also allergies and asthma. Both issues especially in urban areas.
    And just for the heck of it – there used to be cancer islands- folks would go house to house and ask and some were found and there is the public health issue in Victorian England about disease and water wells.
    There is so much and I am sure at times I have or fall into the spectrum for what it is worth- not much.
    The big issue here is school. To get help you need to get labeled.
    If every child had an IEP – change and the money to execute education like those who are truly privileged.

  • Thanks Alex I remembered to state your name at times just to triggered. However there is Alan Bates in “ King of Hearts” knocking at the gate. There is the madwoman if a certain part of Paris, France showing the stairs down to the Paris underground and locking the door behind the oil inspector and his friends. There is also this from Audre Lorde
    I have found that battling despair does not mean closing my eyes to the enormity of the tasks of effecting change, nor ignoring the strength and the barbarity of forcedignedagaibst us. It means teaching,surviving, and fighting with the most important resource I have, myself. and taking joy in that battle.
    So there is that. I am resting and will not be back for awhile. Best to all the inmates.

  • Actually if one works in a government entity one is in the government union. Supervisors are part of the bargaining unit and so forth. It gets very mess when there is a strike. Some workers stay inside in order not to break the lines.
    In Community Mental Health Clinics despite popular myth they are not government entities. In fact, they were supposed to get monies from the Fed but the monies never materialized and county taxes were used to shore up the system since each center was separate and unique. In some states funding was divided with labels such as DD levies versus DDand MH levies.
    So unions were helpful to staff it they were alliwed. Unlike government agencies there were no Pensions or PERS.
    It then made agencies created in this mode to use public and private insurance. Then even government agencies were feeling the elevator drop in financial support and they went into gaining access to government insurance. The state government did not like their Medicaid monies going to agencies do a cat and mouse Hell was created with states using every opp to deny billing monies to agencies based on progress note VOCABULARY. This approach was further developed along Case Management and Therapy lines. Administrators would cull ever note written and probably still do to ensure proper wording was in place. In the last agency I worked at a well known Jewish agency staff were using copies from progress note workbooks to ensure their notes were not censured and kept their jobs. It wasn’t never, at that point what you did, it was solely what you wrote.
    Clients needs and concerns were st the bottom of the cess pool.
    I walked away after nearly being fired. This was based on vocabulary in my progress notes. They knew I was good just not profitable. The folks I worked with ALWAYS or mostly AlWAYS liked me. I was not perfect or totally awoke but I tried to honor and respect them and learn from them.
    So their clients were retraumatized once again by having me leave. Stupid , stupid, and more stupid.
    There are folks who have a knack for supporting others through trying times. Our society puts all of us in the shredder and doesn’t care one iota how we or us or we who have tried to gain access to so called help and or support end up. Once agencies assumed CEO and CFO officials we and the system were goners ruined and abused goners.

  • Well duh. In a world on fire without any sustained emotional sustenance what would one expect?
    Church institutions are being exposed as viper nests of abuse, corporate interests of many ilks are holding up or putting into motion nefarious and malefesent power plays that have been building up for decades, museums and other art circles have been infested with money from for profit deliberate make us money at any cost short and long term thinking and acting strategies, the VA is trying to be taken over by a troika based out of Mar Lar Go, the environment is trashing and may be completely trashed, suicide rates are up in ever every human sector, isms continue to proliferate, folks are weighed down by every sector and vector of circumstance, lies abound,
    media is doing well because it’s soap opera time on the edge of what will be the next WTF moment, and help or soul caring for almost anyone – even the super rich is almost non existent.
    I keep waiting for the clean up crew to arrive for the end of our bread and circus global street parade, but the units and bands just keep on coming. I long to see the Zombini on ice or the humble street cleaner moving past toward the end of this endurance event not quite a full scale war but definitely not safe times, not a pre something or yet a post something. The hundred year war is my only go to thought and I truly hope that thought is wrong.
    And it is all folks. I cannot say police for all their issues are not in pain or acute or chronic distress. I cannot say that for staff in psych units either. I would only guess if truth be told admins at insurance companies, clergy, pollsters, are all in some sort of crisis.
    The ratings may be great for media companies but how long of an extended cycle of WTF continue. And illnesses, colds, ect how much of that is just a body metaphor for my life stinks.
    And the children. They are listening and watching and not only what is this DOING to them but what is it FOING to any possible future progeny? Intergenerstional Trauma begins in the womb.
    For some there is a hope for the future after but unless there is some sort of local, national, global plans of action or framework already being created- I don’t know.
    My hope would be for trauma centers run by all types of survivors and some how a level playing field for all. I don’t expect perfection it just would be nice to see hope in action a strong bonding of promise. Other wise the insane asylum will just become the earth itself.

  • Thanks for this. I found your personal story compelling. I am sorry for your loss.
    Back in the day in treatment with children, no medication was used. Even in residential treatment. The only time I saw it used was for developer mentally disabled children and that was NOT across the board.
    It is not only chemicals that are issued as treatment but the total disabandement of any concept of treatment quality. If there was any and I still believe in some places or folks there were , it has become extinct. What is left is the last visible skeleton of so called treatment and a continuing ongoing assault of bio0sychiatry to keep its hands on the money at all costs.
    Thanks again and THANKS for commenting.

  • Thanks yes. I had known peers who worked there and the attrition rate was fast and furious. No one wanted to work the program. They actually had me do most of the work- messed up on meds and a mother in crisis. I appreciate their kind efforts to help a peer so very much. The others group leaders not good some awful. One way of doing mindfulness was walking through the hospital and appreciating the indoor plants. There was no – none type of Jon Jabari Zinn and Harvard Mind Body techniques. Trauma was not labeled as such and all of us where in various types of and levels of trauma.
    There was no caring or empathy.
    Our insurance paid for this travesty.
    Therapist don’t care re about last labeling just get the patient in the door.
    The best form of help for parenting trauma was the program I had been Co- Director of so not an option.
    Everyone in the family of was compromises d by cancer survivorship or missing because of death from cancer or compromised by other tragic illnesses.
    And I had been the rock of gilbrater that had been utterly shattered.
    Looking based Ca any money that was a copay could and should have been used for a long family extended time away somewhere. That for some reason did not seem possible. Help at home which if one had sisters or cousins or friends would have worked with support for them. But no one was there. No one.
    The kids paid the price. I call child abuse and neglect by proxy.

  • I question this. The creator of DBT is actually a psych survivor who hid her status for years. Dr Marsha L something. She was given a SMI type of dx.
    When I was in the life of trauma one psychologist referred me to a day treatment DBT program. It was awful for me, for my family, and my extended family. It was summer and my kids were left on their own. During the cigarette breaks- I don’t smokeI wouldcallthem to check in. My one daughter baked brownies and I was not there to help her when she burned herself. It was her first time making brownies. If I hadn’t been so compromised by trauma and over medication Iwould have not gone and tried but it was pushed on me.
    The groups were ridiculous and devoid of any sense of good. YES MASTER is one of the acronyms the treatment uses. I cringed when I was forced to listen to that sexist drivel.
    Yes it had mindfulness and supposed spirituality fake , fake, and more fake.
    The reason there is any positive outcome is that there are no lap tops in the group therapy rooms. And most people don’t have twenty years postgraduate work to evaluate the program and its providers.
    I was able to chalkenge the spirituality group leader and she left the room in session. The other group members applauded.

  • As a former LISW, I saw this from the time when there was a possibility of hope to this and worse. I also have been so called gifted with being in the system in all if forms.
    Thanks for this but.
    You are not helping. Truly. It might seems as if you r but what I and friends would discuss is sometimes those helpful sessions were triggering and some of us came out of the building totally zombified. And when in a trtraumatized state and especially if you are labeled SMI the power differential is unequal.
    My mother was a MSW and worked with pregnant women who had to climb up 7 flights of stairs to get to her office. It wasn’t until she herself had been through pregnancy that she realized what SHE had done to those women and she never did that again. And she was for the 1950’s and early 1960’s fairly awoke for a white woman of those times.
    I have experienced the same OMG, WTF type of reaction after my own time in the solitary room in inpatient so called treatment.
    I saw what you have seen but there is so much more.
    I am glad you wrote this but do something. I have had bad experiences so I don’t have the freedom to do what you could do.
    1) Read up on the Pdych survivor momvement and Disability Studies. The powers that be divide and conquer so well in this area. They put each group of folk with different disabilities into little boxes and make them feel that it is a zero sum game.
    2)Ask five folks that you work work to tell them to tell you the truth of being in system.
    3) Do a trauma history with their permission and have a plan about who what where and how you can help them.
    Have you read the literature of trauma? Both professional and survivor and IHO the best are those that gave both backgrounds and are woke. There are some that have both but are not woke. Don’t dismiss them but read between the lines in everything and everyone.
    4) Make a plan to leave and get out. It is not going to get better right now. What you described is a catatonic, divisive, top down agency. It will hurt and harm you.
    5)
    Dialogue with us.Learn and maybe you can be part of the change .

  • I am interested in the framework of the new institute. Who will be on board and on the board? Where is the funding coming from?
    Will the voice of medical patients of all tropes and types be part of the configuration?
    What is the Mission Statement?
    What is the business plan?
    Have you considered how to make changes so that an action that was taken by the CEO cannot happen again?
    What are the short and long term goals and objectives?
    Will the concept of violations of human rights be of ongoing concern?
    Will there be any human rights advocacy?
    How will you get your message out and by what means?
    Thanks. I like the concept of failing up.

  • Corinna, I think we all realize your efforts. I tried to create a non alternative place and got no help, in fact I was targeted by NAMI folks who came into a free Reiki session and two females came up and started sprouting. Mental Illness is a disease like diabetes. I was too kind to ask if they had ever worked on a medical floor or personally knew folks who have or cared for those with that true disease. I also failed to ask if they had either a SocialnWork, or other type of liscence that would allow them to make statements such as that.
    I also interviewed for a Cimmunity Mental Health Center that has for years been peer focused and as soon as I mentioned Robert W’s Work end of interview.
    Also does not help my former boss was physically escorted out of a County MH meeting by police on orders of the director of the MH / SA board. He had been in line to get the position himself but as they say the fix was in.
    In some places things are difficult.

  • Thanks OH.
    Yes. Folks need to read about Jonas Salk and his refusal to take on any financial benefit from his work on the Polio Vaccine. And how many kids in iron lungs do we see now? He was legitimate. Contrast that with Marsha Getson’s latest New Yorker article on the action at the Met Art Education Center.
    People were killed – thousands all in the quest for profit.
    As is written in the Declration of Independence by a slave owner who refused to Free his six ? children from slavery until after his death “ it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it.”
    There is now, thanks to Bryon Stephenson and many others a memorial to those lives destroyed by the Jim Crow era of lynchings.
    Pablum and politeness isn’t going to work.
    Though I appreciate your efforts and it shows how their thinking is irrational-

    how can any human be afraid of other and or 360 perspectives unless they are fearful of losing power and control?
    There is an ocean of this small thinking that has gained influence on so many institutions and they have or are trying to not only lock folks up but also throw away the key by various actions like divide and conquer, following the systemic method of Jim Crow subtle and not so subtle fear and control abuse, dis information, blame and name calling.
    They don’t want people to connect the dots which would show
    many but not all folks in the systems or systems depending how global one wants to go with multiple institutions
    and formats
    that the lines lead straight to a select group with various hangers on ect….
    During WWII there were various efforts to ferment change within the Nazi government and Stalin ect – it failed because many people thought at first they could be reasoned with.
    With money and power and control involved reason means nothing.
    I am still hopeful we have not reached a point of no return but it seems we need much much more like the Met action and use Saul Alinsky and other ancient and new strategists to inform the future.

  • Corinna,
    I see where you are coming from but Saul Alinsky would say just your request in and off itself is putting you in the less powerful position.
    What many, many folks don’t understand about being in need of support is that there are many ways and the powers that be have limited everyone perspective on that, closed doors and windows, and blind folded , shackled, and deafened true human perspective.
    Many founders have both above ground and below ground agendas and they want what they want regardless.
    Asking to be seated at the table is much different from just taking a seat st the table.
    Why not an anti NAMI parallel group?

  • He is a Finnish psychiatrist.
    I doubt he has ever spent a significant amount of time in either urban, rural, or suburban American public school systems.
    Back in the day, when I was young and Oresident Reagan had just come into office, African American children in Virginia supposedly integrated where expressing fears that all African Americans would be moved to Africa. Considering the Inugural Committee had the Morman Tabernacle Choir sing on the steps of the Lincoln Momument with Ephesians Zimilist Jr as the MC , I would have said their fears though untrue had a solid basis and yes a nine year old child might well think bringing a pocket knife to school or not going into the bused “ white” section for school might not be an especially safe choice and combine that the integration action was created to fail because the teachers stayed and were not integrated.
    One of my friends father was a principal and went to homes to convince families it was safe.
    He ended up leaving the education field. Another good professional gone because of corrupt systems
    I am not anti public school or school but
    if one is going to talk the talk one needs mud one ones hiking boots.

  • Brice, I am so very sorry for the loss of your mother and then stepmother and then hard times seemed to have continued. You lived on and it was not stupid for you to help out others and your life narrative is so very important.
    Kids need you.
    The trouble is the system and it still there were some good things perculsting but they got shot down. Fritz Redl would be a good person to look up if you still work in residential treatment.

    To all, there are two threads here that for me seem to be getting tangled.
    There is the 911 and or mental health check and then separate the mandated reporting thread.
    1) The world is made so that ANYONE can make a call to polic and THEY have to act on that call.
    So after having a blowout in the family car with one of my teen kids who was beyond furious with me for IDK and drove down the street to fast. Well families always always be wary when there are teen drivers living on the street or. the guy who stops at the bar everyday after work. So the neighbors made a fuss, I apologized for her behavior because by that time she had taken the car and driven away. I walked into the garage and muttered to myself something about being a bad parents and because there had been a suicide in the tiwn -actually a relative and nobody in the neighborhood knew because she did not associate with me- I just had these words that came out because several days earlier the same kid who also was unaware of the family relationship Nrs so and so shot her self in the mouth and died.
    On overhearing my comment which was ostensibly private the neighborhood said loudly I know what I will do. I will call the police. She had no idea of who I was in any shape or form.
    And then the police came.
    No consequences for her poor judgement and breaking of boundaries. None.
    I was mortified.
    This practice has a long history. Some people use it to create neighborhood wars. And now it can be a racist or whatever ism and done and cloaked in so called caring.Fear plays a role too-
    It makes everything so much much worse for EVERYONE involved.

    Then mandated reporting can be used to help or hurt by usually the mandated is for trained professionals with the emphasis on trained. With the breaking of the systems there are risks the trainings are done poorly and the CPS staff poorly paid, overworked, and not requiring any special degree or life wisdom – can be problematic in the investigation.
    Children are a lifeline to the future. In the United States they are pawns for politicians and mere consumers for profit making corporations. And the abuse and neglect especially in certain groups- ah we are ruining heart , mind, and soul here.
    So IDK issues all around. I will always trust a survivor of any corrupt system then one who claims human perfection.
    We need leaders like you Brice who KNOW and create something like a phoenix.

  • Thanks Sera and kudos for writing about this! I am so glad the interactions were relatively minor- which says everything about my own life narrative.
    There are several layers to this workshop and how it played out for you.
    I admire your bravery and know exactly where you were coming from and my guess is one of the inner voices was saying don’t go there but you did and I probably might have done the same twenty years ago. Now no.
    1) This is now and we are living in a mess of a hair trigger world. We all are walking on broken glass so to speak.
    As I look for societal connections to make or observe systems of all kinds I see knots and tangles, holes, and rips in fabric.So I try to see all folks as coming from this life trauma framework but so very hard and always one step forward and two steps backward.
    So my guess all the folks including trainers were co- existing with trauma and were somewhere in different levels with all of that. Your real ness probably scared them witless!
    So the one of the two things I want to bring up is we all all know folks who have tried or did commit suicide regardless of wherever we are on the spectrum and I would stand my ground that it’s not if you Thought this life is not that great my options are very limited and any hope grows dim at one time or another.
    No group has ever brought out the connection of how we as a society not only cannot desk with death but suicide is almost a verboten word almost to the level of a taboo.
    Read the obits. Listen to the muddle story of a cousin’s sudden death. The whispered stories that children tell each other at sleepovers. You know that house in the corner? This were the whoever offed themselves by whatever method fill in the blank.
    In my old parish there was a suicide cluster and lots of wtf type of deaths in the passing years. I think trauma of many sorts played a role.
    My list of folks and peers who have chosen somehow to walk away is long.
    And there are so many ways to do that.
    Not one so called helping profession ever ever bothered to asl how have you been affected by suicide. Never because
    way way to scary and oh my the therapist would have experience your loss – secondary or tertiary trauma.
    12step programs have been the only place I have felt this is even acknowledged and I know other new groups. This is just the first that comes to mind. I am aware of others.
    The second piece is it wasn’t always this way. I really knew a Vietnam Vet shrink who would be like folks are going to do what they are going to do. There were more folks out there after the 1950’s and then it fell apart fairly quickly especially in the eighties.
    And yes there are dangerous situations and like you been there done that but not anything like your workshop.
    I hope the media picks up on this. There are some signs but not enough and I am too old to be patient for a long haul perspective. Trauma centers now.

  • Interesting thoughts Chaya.
    I found that when I was incarcerated in the psych unit I was massively drugged and my vision was so blurry it was hard to read and also just focus.
    This was an issue outside as well. My eyes did not work right.
    And go tell that story to your friendly neighborhood ophthalmologist.
    My other thoughts are no large print books, tv’s encased in locked wood boxes virtually impossible too use. Staff controlled so the worst of the worst was ALWAYS on. No auditory system for reading. No music. No art. Nada Nada.
    I also want to point out that in the penal incarceration system there are also gross injustices.
    Racism is real and ugly.
    There is a school to prison pipeline. And how many are being forced to take “ our” type of meds?
    How many really do have educational access?
    What books are actually given to them or as I would guess are they censored?
    TD Jakes but not Eldridge Cleaver?
    We need to join together somehow and somehow continue to highlight the terrible awfulness of not having any conception of discharge dates, any any legal or social advocate and No outside time.
    We can bond with seclusion and solitary confinement.
    Kids Chaya kids like ten year olds are or can be in solitary!
    We all need to study more about each other. Read and study hard uncomfortable stuff and then dialogue.
    And hopefully sooner rather than later make comprehensive change.
    I feel a bond with ex cons, I feel a bond with any type of hostages, I feel a bond with POW, I ferl a bond with detainees and refugees like those in Australia.
    The Native American children taken to boarding schools. The Irish women and girls taken and umprisioned by the Magdalene Laudaties. Those in the First and Ladt Circes in Soviet Russia and any country here and now.
    What is that old saying? None without us? Something like that together.

  • I understand your anger and he didn’t have the guts to stand up to the powers that be this enduring horrible harm for generations of women. But one has to acknowledge that he did see it but surrcombed to the academic powers. If he had not been Jewish maybe it would have been different. I don’t know and we will never know. I just like to a full view to everyone and acknowledge efforts even if deliberately stopped.
    One of the problems of history is that it is mainly written by the victors and so much important stuff is deliberately or randomly lost.
    All sides should be recorded and discussed even though the yuck favor or really really legitimate outrage is felt.
    My father would read books on folks he did’t like – buy them in fact, so I like to have a 360 view of things. Very dicey and painful at times but for me there you go.
    I enjoy your comments and thinking. Your voice is an important part of the mix – every voice is and deserves to be heard though ah at times for me, they can still be triggering from my past life of so called treatment.
    Thanks for responding!

  • Actually Richard and somewhat contrary to the article, I read and was taught it was not Freud who censored his patients it was the Medical peers and Psychoanalytic Socities that discredited Freud and in order to continue on in good graces he was forced to retract some of his work in that area.
    It must have haunted him. His culture and religious background could, may have been problematic in view of the historical events in Germany before he fled to England.
    No matter what, it was an immense tragedy all aroun for everyone.

  • Not sure I agree with injury almost a vortex / Cascade event or events. Very similar in thought but not in vocabulary to Sarah’s blog.
    There needs to be a type of Paris Table Peace talk with at least two diverse voices dialoguing in real time. A person with triworld experience in this family/ self/ MH professional world would be extremely invaluable.
    Once a word and concept framework is agreed upon maybe even have a vote here. Which words are acceptable or not?
    Then go for exposure st all the various CUE professionals are mandated to attend and do a traveling show with that. By working as a group rather than individual effort the safety fears of psych survivors would be somewhat assumed. If someone does do a Mental Health call on you at the conference it will be observed by friends instead of strangers who know what to do.
    Folks are usually bored to tears at these conferences so at worst their thoughts will be when does the party start after the evaluations are turned in?
    Then I would add legal and media supporters and then aim for a White House Conference or Congressional hearings or testimony.
    Until I can see dialogue happening and cross referencing between blogs and ALL folks nothing ain’t goin to happen.
    Breggin and others need not only to write but dialogue and in the oldblig oneboringoldman as interesting as it was. He discriminated based on profession and survivors barely got a glancing nod.
    If one is fighting Leviathian one will not win with one harpoon or a Captain Ahab in charge. Ishmael was the only human left from the Pequad and he was saved because Queque sensed doom and built himself a coffin.
    We need a type of Shakelton for our times with a band of merry not pranksters but commingled voices of strong resistance and ultimate action.

  • Yes the name and yes it is the parents who started it and in my area many families were of the Jewush faith and though I knew professionals whose parents lived through the Holocaust theconnection between inter generational trauma and the as Dr. Carl Whittaker would say before he became a family therapy parish “ the identified patient” was never seen and there even now is now aha moment or eureka in this organizational matrix.
    Codependency but ah that comes from trauma as well. And I think as Sarah did with her recent writing parents need the same creative stress response format.
    Fear this I saw in MH professionals many who had relatives with issues in the system but a type of trying to save things in the family ala E. Fuller Torrey MD and his sister. And really what happened to her? In the origin story and in my reading no would not want a sibling like that No.
    But there is the fear what if my kids get it? And for many people the crazy aunt or uncle or grandparent is erased. As the DD parents were TOLD to do by the docs when their child was born” not right.”
    And then in medical family circles ah the shrink kids – always at least one in big do do. So the fear can become a reality and then there is the .org that comes to their rescue.
    I still don’t understand the divide between ARC and BAMI though sometimes issues crossover. And is ARC still called ARC. I have lost touch. But the label was caught and mostly won.
    And in the agencies inclusion was fought for but also times just to hang with the homies too. I never ever got that feeling from NAMI ever.
    FYI Best Boy is an old but worthy documentary on a Down Syndrome young man leaving his parents. There is NOTHING like this type of effort in NAMI.
    Also Rachel there is guilt the gift that always keeps giving. Mother’s ferl that and some husbands use it for all its worth. So the Moms in NAMI How many have heard-You Gave Birth to him or her?
    Way way too many and a group like NAMI uses it for all that it is worth.
    I am with Sera on all of this.

  • Thanks Sera. This is so very frustrating because an agency which is supposed to “ help” many times is doing the work of the devil with out even being aware. It is like the parable of the 12 blind men trying to describe an elephant- 12 different versions of the truth without any any coherence.
    I think this is part and parcel of other disabilities and medical condition groups. It helps to have folks in the know but as long as there are particular founders who are using these groups for profit and greed nothing great will come out of any of these agencies.
    The divide and conquer routine started early with some states funding both MH and DD and others funding each group into very unequal ways. And there was stigma but it was used against the families. It was okay to have a DD child but never the other way around.
    A tangled tangled web. For decades parents of DD kids were told at birth forget you ever gave birth to this child. So there is that. And on and on in so many ways for so many things and especially HUNAN BEINGS.
    I go back to trauma and maybe there needs to be a category pardon the word here shock. People go into a physical Cascade condition why not with emotions as well. This would help explain why sometimes fir whatever reason some folks see some sort of results with medication.
    And a NAMI is not subtle or nuanced and maybe because there also is a bbbule most folks live in and unless they see the hand writing on the wall- they continue to be unaware and unwise.

  • There used to be time and space for PSA’s and or space was bought bringing out alternative points of view. Yup
    Brynner did a spot while he was terminally ill against smoking saying it would air after his death which it did.
    There also were pieces in the men who did the Marlborough Man advertising. I think many died of lung cancer.
    At this time there empty space.
    I had forgotten about The Plug In Drug!
    Subliminal advertising is something I wonder about . Kurt Vonnegut worked in advertising and then wrote some seminal novels about all things strange.
    His son supposedly had an “ Mental Illbess” but did recover. I hope he is doing well.

  • Another perspective of this is that psych units are not the only institutions where patient abuse occurs. As in psych units are not the only institutions that use drugs/ neurotoxins/ chemicals/ beuropleptics – whatever to control patient’s behavior.
    It is at least a double edge maybe octagonal edged sword.
    For staff- many are in the edge financially and possibly in other areas. I can attest to knowing that some staff myself included where on the same meds drugs whatever as the patients.
    This was whenchemistry miracle was all the rage and I fell hook , line, and sinker.
    Many staff are coming from trauma and also abuse and addictions. Life we are all coming from life and it affects what jobs you get to how you handle employment on a minute to minute bases.
    Now with part time work and skeleton staff pushed by upper management for the sole reason of CEO and CFO and one word that had been missing at MIA stockholders needs and wants for money.
    Everything has been compromised. Every institution except for those that truly care and are humane is a disaster waiting to happen. Kind of like our nation and globally as well. The powers that be have ransacked knowledge , ethics, caritas, respect and dignity to all players.
    On the drugging of non psych patients with psych drugs. Oh yes. Slightly aggressive elderly man- here’s some half-lives for you/ they even half dosages specifically for the elderly.
    Rambucious adolescent on the ward causing mayhem on weekends / a little bit of haldol. Never acknowledging ah environment, the kids mother, just died and oh yeah the family had an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing. The rich want money – interest from their investments and not two houses but ten. Not one yacht but 9. They want t look young and beautiful forever. This allcosts extreme levels of money.
    The admins want no problems, the docs want no problems, staff want no problems. Cut the souls out of humans and voila no problems.

  • Crazifying human discomfort has a long history. Like the knowledge of trauma it comes and goes.
    In the older days of medicine there was a well known saw horse about new medical students or for that matter put any student dealing with medical issues of some sort. Very many students would come up with a dx they thought they had. It was a part of the process of diagnosis and back then for some docs it was then as not only humorous but a step in the ART of medicine. However, this came with a strong strong caveat- sometimes the med students WERE CORRECT. Any good doc or prof or professional worth their salt would be able to relate a story about someone who dx their own disease.
    What has been forgotten is not only medical and other students but many folks have the capacity to figure things out. Lorenzo’s Oil for example.
    This has been forgotten. When zi was working a PhD/ md student was complaining of cardiac issues and nothing could be found. He ended up having a cardiac event on the floor of the adult psych unit where I worked.
    The thoradtic surgeons heard the code called and laughed because it was from the psych unit. The one doc who did rush down several flights of stairs and literally opened him up was the burn unit doc who always associated burns with stress in folks lives. I heard him speak to that very issue in the late seventies. The student did not make it. The unit had a group meeting to explain to the folks on the unit what had gone down. Not a perfect place but do so so much better than some of the holes I was put into.
    This also goes to the past and milinary factories where chemicals literally made folks “ mad hatters”. This is only one example- I suspect many more and more beyond just chemistry but nutrition and other things as well.
    Insurance limiting interviews to fire teen minutes no eye contact and in and out slam bang is not care or treatment or medicine it is profit making Clog Wheel Machinary disguised as fill in the blank medicine, banking, education and on and on ad nsusuam.
    There was also at the hospital later on the 90’s a push for research for every department and section. As if doing research was a panacea or gold standard. I am sure most of the so called research studies were ethically compromised. I know my section’s work was.
    So much of the historical ethical research value has been lost or deliberately erased. The English Dr. Jenner inoculated his own family first with his new vaccine. That is the type of moral human being we need now more than ever. We have lost our way many decades ago and I can only hope somehow we can stumble into better days for ALL.

  • On Will’s thoughts.
    Currently if one is disabled for more than two years one can receive Medicare. If one is younger than 65 my best guess is that one is red glued in the eyes of medical office personal, banks and others. And since we live in such desperate times there is chatter much or all of it negative. “ Well I wonder what is “ wrong” with him/ her?
    Nasty times increase nasty talk and crazy seems like an explanation of the too many woefuly ignorant of our country. Whether deaf, or on the spectrum of various conditions, there is even more than ever the sense of ANY type of otherness as not only wrong but dangerous. The extreme tragedy of this is many of the worst offenders are victims of our system but can’t see it.
    So Universal Healthcare would decrease the othering. We would ALL have the same cards.
    Universal Income Star Trek? Yes. Robots are here and more much more to come and can really alleviate awful jobs but society is still bound by past historical conventions about employment.
    Employment and vocation are actually two vastly different concepts and we all could be Tevye’s rich man doing what we enjoy instead of gearing up to work in jobs that are awful or dangerous.
    Geel, Belgium has had a long long history of including those with differences in their daily lives.
    Everyone has something to contribute. My college President was a well known scientist and was considered a laughing stock by most of the students who mainly came from a business perspective.
    He was most known for walking the campus st 5: am and picking up the trash from the mostly white like 97% of the students nights of drinking and stupid revelry.
    Once I meet him, I found him to be a kind gentle man and still consider him a true hero. In today’s era one of the neighbors or a visitor could have seen him at dawn and called the police. A crazy man having now idea who he really was.
    Just some thoughts. I appreciate Eill’s efforts and the discussion.

  • For those who are not well acquainted with the poem
    It can be triggering even in its beauty.

    Howl
    Allen Ginsberg 1955-1956 dates of writing
    Part I
    I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness…..
    who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the supernatural darkness of cold- water flats
    who bored their brains to Heaven under the El and saw Mohammedan Angels staggering….
    who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes…..
    who threw their watches off the roof to cast their ballot for Eternity outside of Time…..
    ah Carl,while you are not safe and now you’re actually in the total animal soup
    of time…..
    Part II
    I am with you in Rockland where you must feel very strange….
    I am with you in Rockland where fifty more shocks will never return your soul to its body again from the pilgrimage to a cross in the road….
    Footnote
    Holy, holy, holy,
    Holy the supernatural extra brilliant intelligent kindness of the soul

  • What is going on with Facebook and it’s targeting? It seems as if it’s one hand has no idea what the other hand is doing.
    Before Facebook engaged as an internet community it should have looked into ethical and psychological issues that would be possibly harmful. The Hippocratic Oath of First Do No Harm is relevant here.
    This is certainly bordering on a problem that was created through a new technology that NO ONE was prepared for and it seems no type of oversight in any way , shape or form.

  • Actually the term used to be gomer and go mere for get out of my ER. This is an issue for the entire medical system though I am not sure about how urgent care units have changed the use of ER.
    This is a really sticky wicket and so very much messed up.
    If folks are in crisis or feel they are in crisis or family members feel the identified patient is in crisis other than hotlines which may produce a police visit which will in turn trigger trauma there are few options because all MH private practitioners and CMHC have go to your ER.
    And crisis does not come in convent times usually it is the evening of a holiday / the day after a Saturday funeral ect ect ect.
    Not one therapist o shrink was able to elucidate a plan for hard times. One mentioned breathing – well how and why EDMR was created by walking in nature with tree leaves. So the breathing therapist also said walk in nature but no good explanation of how and why.
    One can do this on one’s own. Have a set of daily weekly rituals that help. Have things to do during hard times. Create your own design and do not rely on the system unless you have the luck to have a professional worth their Wright in gold.
    A 24/7 trsuma center for ALL citizens makes perfect sense to me.
    Police, mothers, docs, nurses, teachers, retail workers, call center workers, clergy- we all need a place to go with non pharmacy tools.
    Now with the world as it is- it makes sense probably too much sense for it ever to become a reality. But one can hold out hope.

  • Yes. Abriana most people with addictions or mostly anyone in the system do not and should not conform to a DSM dx. This is an insurance driven mechanism like IEP dx that solely bring in money for the institution.
    I as others have been in patient settings and yes you are on target for that.
    I think you saw what I saw folks from the underworld hanging out passing time awhile far removed from those that want payback.
    When I was a volunteer at a woman’s n’s shelter in DC – two blocks from the White House near what we use to call needle park I saw drug deals going down with pregnant prostitutes. Hard to ever know what was what but it stunk to high heaven.
    I would observe the units would get really crowded on weekends. My guess is the psych residents in the ER came from such privileged backgrounds were so unaware of the underground life they had no idea they were being scammed.
    By Monday most of the “ guys – some females” were gone.
    I having worked with offenders knew but under massive medication and REELING from trauma couldn’t put it into words and so gain who would believe me?
    I also ran into folks who had two different personas in two different systems. My guess they could have been NARCS. And yes I know about NARCS and the good and sometimes bad folks they envelope in their webs of investigation. And I am not even going to go into other agencies and groups that would find these floors FOR THEM safe havens.
    So this what you might have seen and I would guess corporate might have had arrangements.
    There were true creeps in some of the units and some other weird stuff that NEVER FIT into any experience I had working in a psych unit pre 9/11.
    But who knows? And again I am now “ officially crazy” so my word means nothing and will never mean anything.
    And the so called “ help” in terms of talk not help at all, at all. I was robbed of a life and profession and most importantly I was my children were ROBBED of a normal life.
    Never fall into the dx trap. It is only a snapshot and useful for using something. I prefer trauma or other terms that are less stigmatizing and harmful.
    Research more- and keep away from the system. The doc seems okay and there are good ones but if he or she didn’t ask about your experience or confirm that there was stuff going down then go on your own. Until the totality of all of this comes out just be aware. And yes this does sound crazy but check out 60 minutes and the mafia don that hid out in a psych unit when needed. It does happen.

  • Cat, I am very interested in your comment about the Adderal high.
    When Ireturned to school I got a script from my GP. A relative had used it and it seemed to help andI did fit the categories.
    This is when the MH system got a hold of me. And now looking back probably was addicted. It was the beginning of the Cascade.
    So my question is should I do a2/ step program? I am off all drugs but still have things to work on.
    I know 12 step more from an Slanon CODA and my big qualm is this was given to me by a doc and have harrowing experiences I am off all of it. This is 13 years or so in the past. I try to do the steps any way- seems like there needs to be something for those that got addicted not by need but by the system.

  • This, I would put in the file labeled things your grandma could have told you or any other wise elder type of folk.
    Any type of any artistic engagement is always going to be a good thing no matter what age or background of human. Duh!
    This is a good example of labeling being essentially meaningless.
    When one looks as people as just individual human beings not as cancer patients, or psychos, or head trauma pets, or TB pts, or stroke victims – btw why does that phrase come so readily too mind?
    And thanks Alex for your own story and great example of art allowing us to be away from ourselves and the daily realities of life as it is.
    And Soneone Else I am sorry the MH professionals were so ignorant of culture and the artistic process. They seemed to be ignorant of more than that especially compassion.
    The United States lost much when the WPA and its many divisions were broken up and destroyed. We need to get that structure back. In the eighties I spent time with two Dutch artists. There is or was I assume still is a national work program that has every government building use work of Dutch artitists for appreciation of employees and other citizens. This gives folk work, there is an evaluative process so staked are still high, and created a win , win situation for all.
    I have been at nationally acclaimed hospitals where very beautiful but extremely high priced works are presented on fine marble walls. I know artist in the city who are working several jobs while still creating art and as I walked past the art work at 3:am, I would think how much more meaningful it would be to see a local artist works and one that I may know. It would provide a much more human connection in the lonely corridors one one’s family member could be at stake.
    Also- psych patients DO NOT HAVE the comfort of family members during their stay. Irony of all Irnonies/ as a mother I slept in the ICU , I spent literally DAYS 34/7 with my family relative/s and when I was held- visiting hours were strictly curtailed and strongly enforced.
    This is what a truly ethical researcher should be/ would be working on. Fluff is fluff whether in academic journals or everyday reporting.

  • Cat. Thanks so much for posting and yes Steve it is a long long list. I was at one of these so called hospitals and it was abusive and at best ignorant of any best practice.
    I discovered this several years ago by calling the institution and someone let it slip who the actual owner was. They keep it very well hidden.
    There are so many ethical and moral issues to discuss and it is hard for me because of the memories and I still haven’t cried. There still hasn’t been anyone I can discuss this with who truly understands and the internet is good but human eye to eye contact is so very necessary for finding some sort of safe space recovery pattern in life after endurance of this trauma.I also read’s Cat’s post on another page and everyone should read it. Yes and yes and yes.
    I don’t know about Yelp. I think I did it early in and my comment/ review was removed.
    One has to remember they have lawyers and eyes and they use them to protect themselves.
    I was on another forum for serious medical issues and there was talk about hospitals checking the forum comments out especially those that could conceivably be brought to trial for medical malpractice.
    I freaked and left the forum because I was afraid the issues could have been possibly identifiable.
    All I can think of is a class action suit or some sort of human / civil rights prosecution. Other than Tina M ‘s workor the ECT case I don’t see that happening.
    I also have been called on and never ever ever want to endure that type of torture again in the time remaining in my life.
    If there were a way to safely tell someone or some group I would do it in a heartbeat. Not only do I like Cat have the memories, I have the professional experience to tell everyone what they were doing was not only professionally unethical and immoral but tstntsmount to human torture in the guise of so called help which only for the profit for a few. My guess is the staff Sunday gettin paid well either and have their own issues and the company finds this out and keeps them quiet. It is bacically a concentration type framework utterly disguised and hidden in almost plain view. They were smarter this time, they deliberately decided not use the chimneys.

  • Craig this is just brilliant and genius. I really wish this had been out when I started working in the MH system.
    This is also great for those that I know who have chosen to take chemicals. I would tell them read this read that but this is clarity for visual learning.
    And Cat – I so appreciate your 12 step viewpoint. The old timers were anti – drug and yes they were right.
    The big Pharma folks created moral injury to us all.

  • Positive writing about the good that can happen in life can never really be critized in terms of the intent and the experience that allowed good to flow.
    However being this is MIA where folks in the field and front lines on both sides meet and converse it is a bit of a sticky wicket for me and perhaps others.
    Trauma is part of this site and how humans in today’s world try to cope with their own and the meta layers we all live with.
    The most painful part of my life as lived from within the MH system as inpatient and outpatient was the experience of a lack of caritas and agape in the system.
    As terrible as my experience was, I was aware of my family’s live but it was clear they didn’t know WHAT to do and were grasping at the ONLY STRAWS that were available.
    The poly pharmacy and psychotropics or neurotoxins – take your pick
    Blunted and dampened my own emotional self do love for my self and others became an abstract term and life situation. I am never sure if I had ECT but I do have Swiss cheese memory but love because of several treatment professionals and inpatient conditions CUT out love.
    Many many folks on both sides of the MH have trauma in its many forms. One can never forget that male aid my be an abuse survivor possibly with an addiction issue and behind on his rent. He just has the keys and someday or maybe earlier did not.
    The fact that it seems we humans continue on and struggle to either gain or get back the ability to live in all its forms over and over and over again is amazing to me.
    Studies in relegion have shown an interesting connection to how children imagine god to how they see their parents. If one is not exposed to love early on in some way how can one love others in return?
    Then there is Father Zorissima’s sp? quote from “Brothers Karamazov” about love in action which is so vitally needed now.
    “ The Little Prince” and others keep me going in these times.
    It would just be nice to have Peter come down from his perch. When one lives their life sitting on the catbird seat it behooves one to realize we ain’t all sitting there.
    PS Going to grad school there were many shrink wives going back to school so they could join their husband’s practices. They would come to class and talk about not getting the project done because daughter had a baby. Understandable but there is this edge and I have always struggled with their relationship together. Cloe Mendes and Jay Haley or Salvador Minuchin come to mind. One was once married to the other.
    So there is that undercurrent as well. Boundaries even the most well meaning sets off uneasiness in me but I know it happens a lot in private practices. And thereby hangs another tale.

  • I have found this site to be extremely helpful on the journey to a better life and as a retired social worker it has helped me integrate and process what I was seeing and experiencing in the field.
    I would suggest that this site needs the perspectives of all involved because I think what we are dealing with is an octopus and it has many tentacles and is well hidden and very hard to either trap and or kill.
    One of the most interesting facts I read lately was the Newsweek article of the 2990’s which was part of a push for drugs campaign. This makes so much sense and yes not only did we buy into drugs as only true response ( and I was skeptical and still slid into the system for myself and others) and meds as the real true and only silver bullet.
    To undo this all will take years and probably decades. This is similar to sex abuse in institutions- the tentacles were allowed to grow and grow and grow unchecked.
    The issue of silence is important here. There are legal ways of silence and making victim’s voices totally taboo.
    If one knows about abuse, offenders at personal, community, institional systems do a great job and making sure silence is not only enforced but continued.
    There are layers of offending from both the for profit and non profit systems and most folks are caught but they don’t even know about the octopus they are feeding. This is true on both sides of the desk.

  • Thanks Chaya I second Alex’s response.
    Maybe add all children who are labeled which expands the area. That MI term whatcha goin to do?
    Coming from a parent yes.
    The act and process of labeling has many threads from school, from an educator, from a family member, from a doc, from a friend, from one’s self.
    In educational terms to get actual help from the school system one is forced into labeling.
    No MFI- no IEP and ah the school districts get different amount of money levels depending on the label.
    Then labeling can vary from one doc to another,
    These area areas that deserve much work and reporting. Those without resources have the hardest time dealing with the system. And there is an inherent basis against those parents with those children.
    If you could go and one is allowed with the parents request to go as support to an IEP meeting wow! And FYI in terms of forced hospitalization the IEP is a legal document and parents have rights and not sure about the child but the goal was if possible st the end have the child be part and involved in the entire process.
    PTA’s have no path for parents with children who are labeled. Privacy is a real legal issue. I would write s newsletter going out to? for parents with IEP kids- no names. What most did not know there was a lovely parent who would type and edit my writing. Even back before being in system I had dyslexia and ect issues. The drugs and the docs never ever asked made it so much worse and the lingering Parkinsonism has hurt me with communicating my thoughts and ideas.
    So I would be known but not everyone had the full story in the community or wanted to divulge how they knew. No I got your newsletter thank you. Never.
    DW Winnicut Good enough/ that’s all a parent needs to be. Let them know that- almost what you are doing but a name can lend prestige.
    Title I used to have a parent support group included with Social Workers and no labeling.Another research direction.
    And acknowledge trauma and histories. And again, mst of the best people that have come out of this world of ours have been gloriously imperfect.

  • George, I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter. I have known many relatives of folks who have decided to let go of life and it is hard because we have a great taboo about talking about this part of life.
    And trying to get help and not realizing that the help was mostly a sham. Those of us psych survivors and our family members again run into another great taboo. Silence can be con ie this but it hurts in the short and long term.
    There is also the issue of abuse and I have no idea where your daughter was in that issue. My grade school had a cluster of suicides but it was a Catholic school and there were issues but who know?
    I appreciate your courage and please keep in exploring and learning.
    My idea is to have trauma centers that are available 24/7 to all with all sorts of support and separate from any medical connection.
    Everyone could use it.
    Take care of yourself and read the old stuff I Trauma there are some gems in the dust.

  • I haven’t listened yet but two thoughts. I am glad there are folks who have the memory of the past with Dr Mosher and Soteria House.
    Second thought Selma Fraiberg MSW did this type of work with mother’s- the father’s in my Program fee and far between. Home visits in some ways can be helpful but ah looking from the psych survivor viewpoint maybe not.
    Third party/ neutral sites were always an option.
    Folks need help and parents in today society just are not given the best tools and stress is all around and kids have that most excellent radar and sonor to detect when parents are especially vulnerable.
    Families need support from nuclear through and including the community and nation where they abide.
    There was the beginnings and then they got smashed down but good. I saw it happen and then became ensnared myself.
    Some day I hope Open Dialogue and memories of good help which were thrown out in the bath water can be gathered together and rise through the yuck.Look forward to listening. Thanks for this I will be interested to see how home visits fare after the travesty of ACT.

  • Jay you started to lose me with the title and then with all the different stats. I appreciate your efforts.
    When I was an inpatient psych unit social worker and having been involved in a new sexual abuse team service – I started asking the folks if they had abuse and or trauma in their histories almost to a one they had experience or experiences. This reflects what Dr Bessel van dear Klerk did on his own as well.
    So if research is using DSM dx and the diagnostic process is becoming more and more fraudulent then why put all the work and time and effort in rebuttal instead of just saying / especially with twins- we need the real experts- twins, their parents, their siblings, their teachers, their friends to explain why this and not that.
    Margret Mead had the bright idea of field studies and if you really want to know about twins a nice longitudal study might work.
    I would ask why?
    There are so so so many issues that needfurther exploration and research this seems like a scientific red herring.
    The two issues that do come to mind our twin loss and disability issues in sets of twins.
    Other than that – please look into trauma, sexual abuse, power and control in the mental health systems.
    Thanks for the work. I hope it helps out somehow.

  • Steve,
    It has been known for some time that family dysfunctionalities can create short and or long term issues which overlap with all the isms and basic structure of one’s life.
    Anxiety is just one manifestation of one human’s response to life- though I also would posit one’s temperament also plays a role but that interaction is like trying to figure out quantum theory- humans are not there yet.
    There once was an ancient emperor who devised an experiment using infants. Some where handled and touched others were not. The infants that were fed but not touched all died.
    Some folks say anxiety and fear can also be signals. I think this is also true. We are as humans are not in a very good space.
    I remember having a panic attack in the 1990’s and literally driving to an activist friend’s house out to state because I felt in my bones and soul as Miss Cavel would say from the Madeleine stories – Something is not right.
    She confirmed my sense and it was helpful to have had that interaction. Worth more than any, any minute or hour of talk therapy or any medication.
    So it is a very tangled trauma web we have all woven for ourselves.
    And so many are doing the see no evil, say no evil, hear no evil layers of denial.
    The rich created s scheme that really has greatly benefited them from insurance to Pharma ect ect
    And why would they stop what has worked so well?
    My sense as a child with benefits was despite the turmoil of the 1960’s there was still a modicum of human caring around me. If the neighborhood kids were playing ball in the street and a car came someone would always call heads up.If I was riding my bike and fell someone would – be it child or adult help out.
    There was a community fabric. In some places more in others places less but it was there.
    One of the negative fall outs of desegregation was the inherent problematic design flaw.
    School principals who were from the communities were not kept with the schoolchildren so part of the fabric was ripped that along with almost flaw designed other issues ended up hurting children and families instead of really really leveling the playing field.
    I just hope someday we can begin to turn around and undo and my guess is the need for so called “ help” will dissipate.

  • I wanted to try to comment on several threads.
    One is women pushing women to take drugs or “ get help.”
    Yes, I have experienced that- specifically the wife of a doctor sending my mother named of shrinks. I don’t think she had any knowledge of my social work career. At that time, my only sister was terminally ill with metatastic cancer and had three small children and my father had a severe disability. I will always have a hard time with forgiveness with her “ only trying to help” moment.
    And yes unknown to her and friends I had already gotten scheduled for support.
    They did an a surprise intervention and it was the last straw on the camel’s back and to this day there is the time before andnthe time after.
    Not what I would ever ever done as a professional or to my worst enemy.
    There is also the artist / musician access to drugs connection that OH brought up.
    So many many folks died young and or so impaired from their best selves.
    The story of Paul Robeson comes to mind because he was given forced ECT. And he once had been absolutely brilliant.
    John Howard Griffts in his closing of “ Black like Me,” mentions the pervasive fear. Nowhere I know it came partly from lynchings. He could have been easily lynched. And what else?
    Alice Miller – I just discovered she was a refugee from WWII. I knew from Germany but not the fact she lived in a ghetto.
    So much that was done and is being done.

  • I would chose one of the caves that has the primitive drawings.There are some neat documentaries about them. Also the young adult novel City of Embrr used that theme. However utopias like Brookland and others have a very hard time surviving humans being humans. I would suggest an island so that several communities could try to thrive in parallel.
    Some monastic communities have and still are doing okay.
    Plum Village and the Taize folks also come to mind.
    Morris West “Clowns of God” trends and treads on this theme as well.
    L’Arche and Catholic Worker homes are another option.
    There are many relegious groups that use volunteers and offer communal or quasi communal living.
    Ah but past history at established places is an Issues for psych survivors.
    Lois Lowery ‘s “ Gathering Blue” is part of a cool quartet to read and comes with others choosing each other.
    It would be interesting to try to do something if money could be found. A three year plan of cave cliffs or whatever could give lots of information and help those of us cope with our empathy.

  • The old plan with a new twist would be start with his feelings. Acknowledge fears. Do some Beryl Rothschild techniques with sensory motor aspects of calming and coming into the present.
    Then tak a what Fritz Redl would call a time life space interview and try to find the source of the anxiety and or trauma and or trauma trigger. This could take hours so maybe s walk outside some coffee and some food. Another choice could be calling on your friends Peer Irganization Liasin to do this Sometimes degrees literally mean nothing.
    If a cause or conditions can be identified if the fear and tangled trauma thinking is lessened and oh yes
    Tangled trauma thinking in this state NO HUMAN can function on a totally logical or rational basis.
    Then the choice could be the friendly 24 hour trauma center for community and more support and or the friendly respite house. And really WHAT DOES HE WANT OR SEE as needs.
    Putin a limb 24 something to help but last last resort.
    Of course this is not insurance or NAMI family friendly though if one could ever change their thinking –
    And your professional administration and the MBA hospital set could be up in arms not to mention the staff around you that are APPALLED simply APALLED that you are not probating here and now.
    The resources and knowledge base is present but the systems and ALL or many of the folks are resistant to change.
    I walked away when it got to unbearable.

  • Thanks for this. It still doesn’t make sense. In 1984 at Smith College Summer CEU they had Rubin Blank a developer of Ego Psychology with his wife Gertrude talk about his own toddlerhood in which he was so troublesome his family would refer to him as Rubin the Terrible. He did it with love and humor and explanation of children needing to explore and deal with theirbgrowing sense of all the boundaries imposed by them in the world. At times, no is actually a good thing to know how to say. He also made a point that the families were are born into are our families. It is our life’s work to learn to cope with them. No matter how we wish they would not be our families it is part and parcel of us. Bad or good or indifferent.
    Selma Fraigberg’s The Magic Years goes into this thinking.
    Trauma was known to some professionals , I guess not enough to stop the tide. Still how did this happen?
    And yes the other causes beside and or including trauma. Noise pollution, air pollution, chemical exposures. Rachel Carson found multiple examples thought the earth’s environs and did not have any background in psychological anything- if we had a modern day Rachel Carson looking into the equivalent of chemical toxins and yes visual artists are exposed all the time- look at possibly Van Gogh? Abd prescription drugs what would she find? And would she be allowed to go forth?
    Serpico? And have there been others who were stopped by the vargities of life and our world as we know it?
    C Henry Kempe a WWII refugee from Germany exposed child abuse. It helps to have a survivor’s experience to think out of the box. And Salk whatever concerns some have with vaccines – do you know he received no profit from his patent PER HIS REQUEST. A true caring person. Some professionals are not worthy to clean his shoes- truly.

  • The concept of legal recourse to seizure for assessment – yes. The ability to call for a mental health check has no conditions or regulations and no downside for the person calling. It has a huge downside for the one called on. Thanks so much treatment advocacy center!
    The Stanley Family is a source of funding for the center.
    There are so many many ways to handle folks either in cris or assumed to be in crisis. Police intervention can not only lead to trauma but death. And my thoughts are the police are not willing participants. They would prefer not to be involved and do actual safety protection. Plus they have their own trauma issues. Suicide rates for police, med students, vets are rising.
    This is just one tip of a largely hidden iceberg.
    The problem is it is so hard to fight. If one gathers for a food fast one and all are both liable for forced legal and medical intervention.

  • Thanks Robert. I remember a time when working at a university connected teaching Hospital was a actual learning experience for interns, residents, and staff. Critical thinking and analytical questioning were prized. It could be a conduit for a cracking open of the walls of the medical industrial governmental corporate industry.
    I brought my medical ethics prof to our Social Work rounds and he eventually was hired by a leading medical institution but his voice literally disappeared. Ethics should be involved in every aspect of medicine from school and beyond.
    One of the conditions in a ground round I attended was Pellegrea sp? Nutrition based emotional issue. My guess like Lyme Disease, Lupus, and other issues one is seeing only a fragment of the whole. The 12 blind men and the elephant meta metaphor comes to mind.
    They should have had in the best practice of academia comparison and contrast in research. They should have personal accounts from all perspectives, and their should have been an art/ media retrospective of treatment including survivor accounts both nonfiction and fictional.
    This is where Bonnie’s book needs to be in- all the bibliographies from medical, nursing, pt, ot, rd education and into alll the community college courses.
    The psych departments should also have tumor boards and all that goes with inpatient medical work at an academic teaching center.
    There was one patient and I have heard other accounts of both benign or malignant tumors causing supposed “ psych” symptoms.
    You could put your name in for a presentation next year. You have the status. And even if it’s for nursing assistants it is a seed or a weed which ever metaphor works for you.
    Cover it with a trendy title and then at least create a ground work for critical thinking.
    “ Splendor in the Grass” would be benign but give folks a what is wrong with now type of view. Doesn’t have to be big or flashy.
    I would love to see if you could pull this idea off.

  • Thanks for this. And aucontrare OH. In many ways the inpatient system has involved to actually be more nefarious and henious than in the 1970’s and other times. I am writing this having read the writings of those forced into insulin shock treatments and knowing and having to have dealt with a person who was a rape baby from their mother’s instiutilization and should they connect or not?
    My own experience post 9/11 was as awful as documented here. Any treatment a joke, severe restriction on movement, incarceration rather than treatment. There are no Day rooms anymore. The for profit industry has spread their tentacles all over the system from hedge funds who own city ambulance services to the most minimalist type of staffing where employees are required to be ignorant of any past best practices.
    In the roller coaster projection of treatment throughout time we are almost and in the juvenile justice system and criminal institution back to shackles on the wall. Dungeons and dragons are now real.

  • Yes! I read the book. It is a twofer for females! Pain and or DSM dx in ten minutes or less. Also the whole ignorance of the female physical experience. Has any female ever ever was asked what was or is your puberty experience and or who would actually want to disclose to some of the treating docs any way.
    Also the repression of sexuality so that gender almost becomes meaningless.
    Thanks for bringing this up. Books need to be written. And check treatment advertising! Women are the prime targets.
    And why are females in this movement more hidden than not?