Sunday, November 27, 2022

Comments by CatNight

Showing 530 of 530 comments.

  • And for those reading the local ADDAMS Board was run by a politician. There had always been issues but with the overtaking of the board things became so much worse. The politician had no college degree but had supervised the safety forces of our local big city with no police experience . Nada. It was a ripe for deaths . Check out the stories of Tamar Rice and Taneesha Anderson.
    Ineptitude and ignorance all the way around. And the Board was really good friends with NAMI. They allowed the group rooms for free. The city also was home to many hospital systems so my best bet is that research money and PR money just rolled in. No one saw the problem like I did and I think as one professional said I was figtuvely taken prisoner.
    So few folks in my local don’t see the big picture. When the head of the ADDAMS Board retired he was lauded not only by the powers that be but by a local Irish Cultural society. The very folks who had so called skizophtenic relatives thought he had just done great.
    I pass by where Tamir was shot. I can go down streets and show you the homes where suicides took place. Not just one or two but more.
    I live next door where a woman said
    I know what I will do I will call the police and she did. One of the most humiliating times of my life. And it was a circus. Everyone came out to see what was happening. The kids were texting their friends( their fault driving way too fast but teens other teens have done in the neighborhood I have seen it but no one does nor call police . Stupidly personified.) It was a suburban circus. I still live here though I did try to move away several times and things kept getting weird finally after a nice infestation after the fourth move I just came home to exist. Not live but exist.
    Actually the local cops were better than others so go figure.
    It just seems to be a huge mess and it doesn’t seem to get better.
    I walk the dog and people wave but the memories are still there and maybe they are new but it doesn’t matter because I was destroyed that day and on several others. Family most have no clear idea. And silence is the rule. Today with another shooting, today with more outrageous news of the corruption on high in not only government but let’s say the Roman Catholic Church. They still are dealing in untruths.
    The Congressional Rep from Ohio Jim Jordan was aware of sex abuse on the OSU wrestling team and did NOTHING yet is being a great voice in the impeachment trial so to speak. I took Sex Offender Training- Loss And Ross Associates on the same campus paid for by the State if Ohio – a mere few years before he coached there. Sex Abuse was known by then.
    Even Corrie Ten Boom felt anger and hate with her former captor’s apology. She chose love over hate but a struggle right? So many of us don’t get an apology. Just the exquisite pain of seeing things go down the drain over and over again. Our house will not sell. Not enough money to walk away. I just would like the lady years to be in a peaceful quiet place near trees. One level small. I have been maxed out.
    Thanks for reading if you got this far. The change seems at times like today totally impossible. I really wish I could be more helpful.

  • Yes at one time they did. Just happened to have an off the cuff conversation with the employee. I don’t think she had any idea. I knew the family that she was going to visit. I did not say anything because not only couldn’t believe as a professional who had worked in the system but knowing folks who had lost children and others appalling. Their help was mostly not help. But if one didn’t know or didn’t know any better or had no knowledge of past history it would seem oh how great.
    This is my one great great frustration because the net of biopsychistry and big Pharma is so very very all encompassing so that so many are blinded or made
    deaf and not their fault. It takes years to figure it out and even I was trapped. And then the Sciencetogy issues . No no it’s not that at all!! The history of survivors has been almost all but squashed.

  • I had a hard time following but the subject matter is enormous and perhaps a research article overview is not what is needed.
    I guess deportations have been around for eons. Americans seem to be in a large mix with folks being deported, some folks coming in from deportation in a variety of ways , such as the German military folk who came to the states after WWII. There was also the trails of tears which if not called a deportation actually were. There is the interment of Japanese Americans during WWII. There is the great migration of African Americans from the Jim Crow South.
    Lots of deportations from the US to other countries prior to WWI with pesky naturalized American citizens who created trouble.
    That is just a small sample. The authorities who were afraid of so many things used folks removal from here to there to stave off possibility of anything by removal. A bus ticket has been used as well.
    Most folks in the middle, are just cogs and are not able to see the actuality . They just see symptoms and treat.

    At least now, we all have a view of what is happening at the border- knowing full well there are many borders right?
    We need to learn the history behind the racism and other isms. Many of us already know what is like to be abused in the system.
    Then perhaps how to stop articles. What can we do? Not just for the MIA world but all the worlds that are caught in this web.

  • Thanks for this. I have some questions.
    What about gender specific stays and research? And I would like to know about the LBGQT folks as well. So much research is male only.
    What about other disabled vets? What works and what doesn’t work for them and my guess is there are emotional issues with them as well.
    After WWII the VA thought chicken farming was the solution for vets with visual issues. As a Social Worker, my mother worked with them and thought it was not the best idea.
    The other question is why the difference in handling trauma generationally?
    WWII vets mainly kept it to themselves and it only leaked out as they aged. Vietnam Vets had their own support and active groups- kind of forced to because no ticker tape parades for them.
    What about race?
    How do entertainment and media affect Vets and the VA?
    How does the volunteer army affect all of this?
    What about the families? In the not to distant past there was the beginning of some understanding of intergenerational trauma. This now seems to be a moot and forgotten point.
    Glad this is out there. I heard about this through a friend who lost their child to suicide. The families of Vets who lost their vet to suicide was her great help.
    This was one our local NAMI was sending folks to wakes of suicides. So much for that.

  • So much of this type of news goes unreported. This is so much of a vortex seemingly with no end. There are the grassroots organizations around this issue Moms Demand Action, Everytown, the Sandy Hook Promise, And others. It is hard to know where they actually stand and so so much is a reactionary backlash so deep research and the capacity to have deep understanding is missing. The NRA folks know this and use it as a populist tool as does our current leader.
    Truth be told we are a globe of trauma and unless we start with the basis of we are alll trauma survivors not much will ever get accomplished.
    One of the news magazine outlets ran a piece on the after-affects of being a gun massacre survivor and they not only deal with the act itself but medical lead poisoning due to the shrapnel that remains in their bodies due to the high assault weapons.
    And we psych survivors know about double whammy’s! The metaphor of this strikes as beyond precious.
    There are so many players here both hidden and above ground.
    The weapons industry George Bernard Shaw had his finger on them in “Major Barbara.”
    Ibsen had the NRA members mindset with his play , “Enemy of The People.”
    And one could look through out time in the art and commentary where rational and then convoluted thought rises and falls.
    I will share this for what it is worth. Not many folks ever respond back. One or two at most. I continue to be traumatized every day. One hopes someday there will be an end to the worst aspects of this world and my life.

  • Dorothy, thank you so much for sharing your story. It was helpful. So many times and in so many ways one has to live in the closet. I have tried several ways to integrate my psych life experience with life outside and most times it has not gone well. Either there is a cold draft that creeps into the air or silence. Most folks really don’t want to know.
    This is similar but not totally like females and or mothers with addiction issues. The elephant in the living room.
    In my area the 12 step groups have been alive and kicking and some of my own support has come from there but not always and still a separate issue.
    Not being able to tell my children oh you need to talk to my friend so and so because she lived through what you did with me is a great sorrow and I am not sure how much it is because I still own the shame and humiliation.
    There is no good manners, etiquette framework to discuss this issues and other crisis episodes of human life. I think we have all been in places where a brave soul brings up something and then silence and a quick change of subject.
    And I think we psych survivors are not the only hurting hidden humans here.
    When I was in a Preschool Board one of the mothers lost a child. No one expected her to come but she did and only one mother was able to meet her eye to eye and greet her( A LISW I knew- so yes so some profs can rise to the occasion) .
    That mother and I became great friends unfortunately she died of cancer and was not alive( trauma anyone?) when I slid , was pushed, into crisis.
    Thanks again, your voice is so important.
    Actually there is an old book and a movie on a psych survivor story written by a fellow high school alum though more addiction than anything else but she was in our local unit. The Cracker Factory- FYI

  • Interesting thoughts. But can it be morally and ethically done?
    This goes to the demise or restructure debate. Germany, Rwanda, and the United States after the Civil War are examples of the restructure approach with huge differences on how that was managed.
    Vietnam is also another country one can look to , in terms of handling hortorific trauma. That war was really the first ever time vets were really able to go back and process and meet with people who once they actively fought against. Some in WWII were able to meet with enemies as well but for many silent sufferings as in past military actions of all kinds throughout time.
    WWI showed Psychiatry actively working to put soldiers back into military action. We have the writings of many of the English writers who served on the frontlines to show us how it was accomplished. Tolkien was a WEI soldier and of course he came up with the creation of IRCs. One can see in a small way reading about his life where it originated.
    Of course if anyone today would talk of Orcs and night time fears they would be vanished and vanquished into the bowels of the MH industrial military medical complex/ and I paraphrase President Dwight D Eisenhower here in his last important speech. He was a General inWWII and lived out his retirement years on a farm in full view of Gettysburg Notional Park.
    What I find missing is the voice of survivors and any understanding or comprehension of restorative justice in the MH field.
    Any professional worth their salt is able to relate and accept their mistakes and errors. And if they don’t then. let us all show them the door.
    When involved with any type of professional helper I always admired the ones who knew and admitted to “ I really blew it this time or times.
    One doc said to me-“ When I was young, I thought I knew everything , now I listen to the mothers and follow their lead.”
    And for those reading this who were abused by their mothers and I am so sorry especially for those that ended up having help create even more or worse hurt- I believe that if one can see I am imperfect and I just want to help- they might be the ones to see all mothers are not perfect either. Atleast that is my hope.
    I will not trust those who do not admit errors and mistakes but I will try and give leeway to those who not only LISTEN and admit imperfection but also are willing to work together side by side despite ongoing disagreements.
    If that doesn’t evolve than demise is the only other solution. We never resolved the Civil War and look where that has led us.

  • This is a long lasting and complex issue on how to help our young thrive and now there is a mighty question of surviving in and of itself.
    The whole history of education from the schools formed by Puritans in New England to the luck of rich young females in Western Europe to use their father’s library books in self education.
    And then to indigenous cultures ways of youth.
    A family relative taught in the Open Air School time which came out of a public school system trying to work with public health issues of immigrants. The crisis there was TB. Students who were at risk for this disease could? or made ? to go to a school that had a physician and nurse who did home visits. The health food of the day was used – graham crackers and cream cheese- go figure. Class sizes were around 50 with the whole spectrum of abilities.
    And then in contrast look at top tier boarding schools – some things detailed in Dicken’s David Cooperfield still linger.
    The Roman Catholic boarding schools for both the rich and the disabled were at times extremely abusive or merely quite unpleasant. Much less the American movement of child separation on the Reservations. And then the slave system and Jim Crow Times with learning to read or write being a possible death sentence.
    The best mindfulness program I participated in was a UU based Sanga.
    We met twice a week with two sitting sessions and walking session in between and then a short discussion time.
    Unfortunately the church also supported NAMI and had an extremely active group and I didn’t realize when I joined.. Oh well.
    So many systems that try or are perceived as helping children are messed up and entangled with corruption and financial strife.
    This hurts not only the children but those employees who are wanting to help and those that are gifted helpers. They and the kids are caught in a bad dream not of their own making.

  • I don’t understand the dynamics during the decades with gender. Back in the early eighties there was a transgender program and folks were evaluated and then could begin their change. St the time, there were some African Americans and others and it seemed like it was no big deal. I was not involved so I could easily missed the isdues.
    I still have a hard time comprehending the fear factor. I missed a lot when being a parent and was not in the loop with LBQT folks as I had been. This hardness never needed to happen.

  • I am surprised no one has commented on this. Pink slip laws as in Ohio and other states. We need to have a list.
    How to leave a hospital. Admission clerk signaled a strong man code when I decided I did not want to be admitted.It was beyond humiliating and that unit was part Twilight Zone and part One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.There should be a Manuel st least , lawyers at best to get one the right to leave AMA.
    The confabulation of the MH professionals in these insurance paid money passed under the table corporations needs to be outed and closed down. This is not help this is at least for me imprisonment, kidnapping, and torture.
    And once you leave, yes as stated in another column another version of The First Circle.

  • Elizabeth, thanks for your kind reply. Paperwork – many good social workers resigned or were fired because the paperwork just became to hard to handle. It is one of the many elephants in the living room.
    I worked in a residential center during grad school and none of the girls were on any type of chemical intervention. When I had worked in a camp for dev. disabled kids I knew of only one kid and he usually had two volunteers assigned during outside trips. It was never what is wrong with this kid, the philosophy as I learned it was more like Montessori – How can we make it easier?
    Jane Addams, and others led interesting lives. Jane developed Hull House a kind of settlement house. Tons of info on her and others if one looks. Should be taught in school.
    I would suggest you look into creating or following a psych survivor group or program. Soteria and others involved on this site. I had lots of issues with NAMI somehow the DD movement was more into independence than the MH system. Might have something to do with both financial funding and stigma.
    Trauma I would urge to look into that as well- that is the core and key to many but not all.
    One of the ways I cope with my psych survivor life is learning new things. It’s a great distraction and life doesn’t feel so lonely. TH White recommended it!

  • Elizabeth, I am glad you have realized and then found appropriate help in your life journey.
    However, like LabenderSage, I left social work. In my time, any chemical intervention or neurotoxin regime was only used after ALL therapeutic efforts were literally exhausted. This has changed drastically and I consider it almost to child abuse levels and I bending backwards here.
    If you loo at the profession some good stuff but it came and was created by rich white privelged women- similar too but not exactly like the women suffragettes and early feminists. Not taking anything away from the good but they did kowtow to the male powers that be many more times that they should have. And look at the CEOs and CFO’s and Directors of most agencies – most male
    I am glad you have enlarged your vision and your story of struggling with Chemical intervention while working which is I think, par for the course these days.Just the paperwork alone is enough for any sane individual to seek substances to cope with the emotional morass.
    Please think on what you can do next.

  • Thanks Mike for writing this. Because I come a variety of view points I would like to share some of my NAMI story.
    From a family perspective differences were allowed and I grew up knowing about folks – my own family had issues but the MH Field was not seen as saints but some good folks there.
    In my professional life NAMI was looked down upon by most professional folks. This seemed to change with the Big Pharma bio roll out.
    There were the newspaper columns of NAMI folks seeing the light. The MH Board was run by a safety service admin and instead of mobile crisis units MH checks by police became the rule. I dropped out of the Social Work world but then ran into overwhelming trauma. I tried not to take meds but it was not acceptable. Most people bought into chemistry. And there were no good places for alternatives. I became drugged out of my mind. During that time I tried NAMI – it was awful the group and the folks were so into chemicals without seeing the possibility this is not working well for many.
    I rue the day I ever tried to reach out.
    Someday, I hope to find a way of resolution. Good luck in your next life steps.

  • Yes! The DBT Day Treatment Program I was placed in used this as primary tool. It was beyond awful especially the so called spiritual component. It was all very well maintained SCAM.
    I consider them as con artists not professionals. I think the con artists are part and parcel of today’s MH world and only if you happen to be random lucky to get a so called real professional does one actually get help. Huge part of the problem. BS all around.
    Thanks for your wisdom.

  • Corinne I am surprised that you lasted so long. Kudos for what you accomplished and I am sorry for your loss and losses. Be well and maybe this is the place where something else will come. I found many grants to be insidiously political whether MH related or not. And sometimes opposite grants were written just to make sure another grant was NOT funded. You are not alone in this.
    I know many orgs are parent related and my issue was well we have two perspectives here and you need to actively legitimize both and always the folks first who deal with whatever on a day to day basis. We are the experts.
    But ah to get that point across and other agents are at work as well.
    If I could give you a solution I would.Good luck.

  • One needs to go through writings on medicine with the sharp fine toothed comb- along with others – and yes my comment in regards to John Lewis does not forget the waterhosing of children and the four girls burned to death and oh yes the pictures of those who actually marched st Selma.
    House of God – old novel- very interesting to read author now. Oh my a psychiatrist who may have had a partial epiphany. If one totally bashed and ignored all- the diamonds in the rough are laid to the wayside and are no help at all. Robert Coles and his experience with Dorothy Day and her house of hospitality and the farm and Peter Maurin who was literally on the edge of the margins and today would have been taken off the street and medicated out of his mind.
    There was beside everything else a forceful great forgetting. Look at the RC church and the almost total forgetting of the system of Abbesses and Dorothy despite her ironclad following of the system just not holy enough- she lived with “ those” folks.
    And if things ever get better- we all will still have to live with one another. We have several Pharma Reps in our area and their kids and all that. To lead with hate and blame never works because after usually comes if not taken over like with the Jim Crow laws. And even then what happens to those in WWII who worked for evil systems. How to configure justice?

  • It goes back further and is so intertwined. Beer Rounds. There used to be free beer and pizza made available to medical residents on Friday late afternoons. Not the best idea. Even Social Workers were given free lunches or gifts by agencies or companies that wanted referrals. I think the old sawhorse – you scratch my back and I will scratch yours- has been in play for a long, long time. Nurses took over a lot of the nursing home and or hospice discharge planning and I am not sure if it got better or worse.
    I think this played out on all levels in all areas. One just has to look. And yes I am aware because at times I was a participant but eventually walked away as much as I could until I stopped completely.
    The trouble is it is so alluring and if you have a gap of some sort in self regard it creates a filler atleast for some time. And we all our vulnerable to spin and false choices. A 12 step program would fit for many of the professionals involved in the grafting machinations and again those of us who took chemicals and in doing so hurt ourselves and possibly others. IE going through eithdrawal – the anger and rage and who to blame it on and unless in a legal or community good way what good does blame actually accomplish?

  • One does need to remember he lost his mother and is part of an othered group.
    Doesn’t make it right but if we lead with bitterness then nothing will ever be accomplished. According to John Lewis on Krista Tippet’s On Being series the Civil. Rights moment met and read and gathered and actually practiced being confronted. Their lead was this person was not born this way, this person was exposed and learned.
    “Beautiful Mind” how did they get the movie to change the facts? And how do we get professionals to aid instead of play games?
    And again, one does not want to be sidelined fighting red herrings.

  • Eric, thanks for this. I had that issue as well as was misdiagnosed at a private for profit psychiatric hospital. As a professional I had known folks of my profesdion not only unhappy but leaving it. I was not consulted but told.
    I ended up in solitary and the discharge plan was for nursing home placement according to an aide. It never happened but very scary to say the least. Got the papers and the plan was for nursing home placement but in red stamped was Lithium Toxicity. Never told.
    I am sorry for what has happened. Lithium Toxicity knowledge has been around since the 1950’s when Lithium was introduced. There was no need for what we and others were put through.I hope for better days for you and all.

  • Teresa, it is good to read your voice. As a person of many hats, the need to change needs you. To hear a professional social worker SAY the system is broken and we all need to do something is great to read.
    I would love to dialogue with you as both a retired LISW and survivor that was abused by the system.
    There is so much to talk on. And if you could hear me then I could hear you and we could reflect in a column the process of dialogue.
    Steve has my email. So I would be willin to correspond and send in the writing to be seen and read here.

  • Miranda, this was a very interesting article. But as usual I have to point out something. Anderson Cooper lost his brother to suicide and my best guess is the concept of a biological issue since this was decades ago was brought up and was used as a hold to help deal with the loss. Defense Mechanism. Anna Freud identified a number, I think there are are many human defenses against pain or memories or uncomfortable realities as there are stars in the sky.
    I just wouldn’t be so hard just because of this though I understand and at times been if not out loud internally as you.
    This is just such a good start- just tone it down because many folks will know his history or others and again I would say most of us have been affected by suicide in some way shape or form including our own history.
    In defense some folks will just focus on your non support of him and damn again.
    Continue but ah an interview with Cooper or Chris and along the way other voices chiming in our something.
    What we need is a light bulb moment.
    The powers that be have done their all mightiest not to allow any light in folks and professionals minds right. And the folks do not know what they don’t know.
    So keep on but and consider my thoughts and do what you will.
    And remember-there are always folks who say and think and feel they were helped and are on them as they speak. My guess this is a big issue. Even if they are aware of problems. Denial is not a River in Egypt.

  • Oh but Lucy, this has been great! So please do not drop out of the conversation. It is despite the uncomfortable feelings raised extremely important.
    Do not give up and I would say the same to PD but breathe and process and think on this and think on that and if something rises up please share.
    My reaction was visceral and it wasn’t I skimmed for the sake of skimming – some of it way to close to my trauma core.
    And the other issue is please please please say life is trauma. Do not create walls and barriers where they really Do not need to exist.
    Social Work/ Parenting 101!!!!!!!
    The fact that your kid is angry does not mean the kid or you are bad the fact is kid or adult fill in the blank is SAFE enough to get angry!
    This is huge!
    Because of our human history of trauma the emotions are twisted tangled and come out in a variety of health and unhealthy ways. And if one has been majorilly traumatized just getting to the point of recognizing I need to contain this emotion or well yeah These Emotions can be life long or some never are able to identify and it comes out in abuse of some sort.
    So glad you are trying glad to see multisysyemic thinking, glad to see you dialogue but for me and possible others
    Be Includive we not we as professionals but we as humans on this fucked up earth. ( And Yes Alex – not total and places of green) Then maybe an opening through the walls and barriers of now. Capice?

  • Jen and Sasha I don’t know if the Social Work path is any better but I don’t know that much regarding now. I know there is trauma focus but of what kind, range, and depth?
    And yes the Social Work Field has or had some really great stuff but at times and not in all ways and I haven’t heard ANY sense of this is what we did wrong and amend making.
    Those who came with a history sometimes were talked behind their backs and marginalized – who the student was assigned for not only fieldwork placement but supervisor – a whole world – truly -even those who had trauma issues during career- treated with kid gloves very hush hush hush whispers.
    And remember the field was created by rich white women. Kind of like the Abolition movement clarity but created by those who had more power than others and at the same time compromised by culture and society power grid.
    There use to be a MSW/JD degree. I would urge you both to do that.
    As a mother ( one hat I wear) I was confounded by being unable to use the skills I had required in my social work profession because I was unable to confront others and advocate for my children as well as I would have as a professional. I could go toe to toe , head to head with adults in the community for one of the kids I was working with and I also was known as a fighter.
    Could not do that with family especially children because ah college reference letters , place on sport team, place in high school cast, ect ect ect. And even then the fix was in in my community without being totally calling stuff out.
    So for the folks who say burn it down, I get but sometimes one really needs support and witness to call out the BS.
    Since you both know you could do this service. Think on it.

  • Actually the benzo- opiod combo was maybe is standard practice for orthopedic surgery regardless of age.
    Interesting reading this now.
    No the meds are not addictive my relative was told. Although even in the eighties some MH folk knew of bentos additive nature.
    Before this became standard the role of orthopedics was interesting and oh so very male dominated.
    Lots of addicted of all tropes would end up on the ortho wards because in winter time in the dark so easy to fall.
    And wards had access to even more substances from so called friendly visitors.
    They also could be heroes if they choose to be but many did not follow through with C. Henry Kempe’s finding of child abuse and spiral fractures and all of that. And oh yes sure! Some mothers were blamed by boyfriends or husbands and took the fall when it was the male who was abusing in all shapes and size and frames …….. verbal, emotional , physical, and sexual.
    In my suburb in the 2990’s some blessed parent had an African American speaker talk on drug addiction and recovery in America for the PTA and Community.
    He suggested going into all your children’s friends bathrooms and taking a peek in the cabinet.
    He was if nothing else but prescient.
    But so hard to do!!!!!
    I considered my self lucky when mothers opened up about guns in the house and their safety plan.

  • Actually Ellen Bass and her co- author did this decades ago. I am sorry Sera you had to endure it all. And yes any knowledgeable caring well trained and well read therapist should tell every sexual abuse survivor yes pleasure is part of the package deal. My guess is our FLOTUS is a victim herself. Notice I say victim because I don’t think she is safe. Several Congress women in the past have come out with their own stories and 4 in 1 female and 7 in 1 male and that is in my humble opinion on the low side.
    As you pointed out so searingly, one does not judge well after abuse and figuring it all out can take a life time. Thus FLOTUS and daughters maybe still too afraid to speak out and are playing the game of pretend.
    This in and of itself should be grounds for use of the 25th admendment.. Sex abuse is a crime and extreme violation of the female and or possible male. One never knows. It was done as nausaym in every captive human enclosure and that enclosure could be the White House or the Bergen Belsen. The story remains the same.
    Anyone who knows anything about sexual perpetrators knows this is part of our current 1% scene.
    I am giving up on news or trying to sort things out. An anchorite life maybe.
    I just don’t see an end in sight at this point and waiting is too soul damaging. So perhaps a cell with paper and fresh food and someone can free me if things turn upwards. Best to all. Keep if the good fight for me.

  • Jonah you have some true gems here among your thoughts.
    Tech is a tool and needs ethics and how to’s and phases of implementation and oh yes the profit motive and or control motive which left unchecked, unregulated, or ignored because just not convient to the bottom line.
    And as a professional who worked with mothers involved in the child protective service once long ago we did think on using tech because for those traumatized in childhood and then or already traumatized by sheer environmental extreme hardness sometimes the ability to connect with their infant was compromised not because of them but they had never been given the freedom to look eye to eye in a safe way with another human being Using video to show the infant actively looking and desiring eye contact , to let them be safe enough to observe and feel maybe someone wants to interact with me and dance into life is simply essential for human beings to continue to survive and the earth to survive.
    However, not sure about your knowledge of this or anyone else’s.
    This is where I depart from some other survivors in that as always there are folks in any profession who break through. And here I am acknowledging the horrirific history of psychiatry that was like so many things so successfully well hidden.
    I still get triggered with the phrase mental health and just the topic so my reading is compromised by my history of awfulness. See previous posts.
    And training ? Trained by whom and what funding sources and who actually originated the idea? Who were it’s influencers? If shareholders who really are they and if LLC who is behind the mask and curtains? And we need to realize it’s not just one convoluted serpentine and byzantine layer it is I fear Leviathan. But even the nine headed Hydra was defeated so I think there is hope still.
    It’s not MH it’s human beings in crisis and a world in crisis and for those of us in the United States a country on the edge of collapse because of so many folks asleep at the wheel.
    My mother grew up with a record album of just laughter and I think tech could work here. If one can laugh and learn amazing cool facts on any subject or walk or swing on a swing or see a piece or art. Then with both human and tech positives a sea change.
    Whenever secrecy, power and control and inequality and yuck factors appear then NO. Danger not only to the targeted by to the by standers as well.

  • Wasn’t sure where and how to post re: Alex’s comments. Alex, your words are so helpful and the new project of writing very cool.
    It’s so dicey because so many of us have been abused and ah the capacity to do moral harm to others is there sometimes more than other times.
    And working through the abuse and being able to identify triggers on an ongoing basis takes as you said time and energy.
    Philo from Alexandria – be kind for everyone is fighting a great battle. Yes but how to talk truth to power and feel the emotions without the emotions overcoming civility?
    That is where- some type of partner witness comes in- a team sometimes works better than a single voice but again can also devolve into groupthink re: eugenics.
    So my thought for now.

  • Thanks for this. I have some thoughts.
    First of all Socrates and hemlock. And then we go to the shame of not being buried in sacred ground. The RC has or had a strong lockhold on this. When my sister wanted to choose her burial ground and she looking into nonRC cemeteries I was like wow if your not buried in sacred ground shame for the entire family. This was big. Secrets with disability and or suicide.
    Thomas A Kempis was not given sainthood because when he was exhumed for possible canonization his inner top was marked by scratching so – he might have died of despair / so no sainthood for him. One sometimes had to laugh it’s all so contorted.
    I think what is needed is a clear and open discussion of life. Sometimes and for many it is just god awful and seemingly little to no options and I would say for all of us Trauma is life and if you are unable to work through it which usually means your life time in some cases – the thought of suicide has passed your mind. To deny this is the real tragedy.
    The questions should be who what why when and how and they should be boldly asked.
    And how can it be considered contagion when basically most people have thought in some way shape or form I am outta here.
    There are so many things no one knows or understands. And horrors to those who admit that truth. Because oh my to admit ignorance- really such bad form.
    In my MH system other side of the table journey/ no one asked How has suicide impacted your life? If asked I could say well there might have been a suicide cluster at my grade school parish and could go on to list names of for sites and then the maybes or most likelies.
    And not contagion but maybe some sort of abuse or sex abuse and or addictions.
    And no one asked me after my unintentional or mostly unintentional
    OD of my own story – the steps and what I was thinking and doing before and during. I was just shipped off to a hell hole.
    And most neurons are located in the digestive track so where does that all fit in?
    If one looks back into history one can find that first looks sometimes were fogged or mud splattered and what was really the cause was so much more different than the assigned conclusion.

  • This was a very interesting dialogue.
    I have several questions.
    The past of Ireland was only minimally discussed and the abuses like so many issues in some places and in so many ways glossed over. So here are my questions coming from both a survivor and professional perspective.
    Has the profession in Ireland in any way done grief work regarding the Irish Famine? Other than Cecil Woodhams Smith,” The Great Hunger” and scattered writingsand with our knowledge of possible intergenerational trauma affects one would hope that a reckoning and resolution could somehow take place.
    The great divide and troubles again especially with the current political environment still it seems to me from afar, a source of unresolvedness though so much better now then before.
    The Magdalene Laundaries- what was the role of psychiatry and other professions? Did they know and if so why wasn’t it stopped?
    The RC institution, the unacknowledged children of priests – and I worry about Tuam here- how did it remain in disguise?

    The book “ Angela’s Ashes” goes in poetic detail of the hardness of lives and the layers of abuse in poverty and this in families and children- where was Psychiatry in all of this?
    There is much talk of Uganda and Nee Zealand but the great silence continues for the country and the professions and church.
    Finally, in the States, there is a museum that acknowledges the names of those who were murdered by lynchings. But what to do with ALL of our emotions?
    The last question- why cannot you call out your own survivorship?
    We all have lived through various ways and means and modes of trauma- some luckier than others- how to reconcile?

  • Also. Even in Germany in WEII there was Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the Stolz siblings of the Ehite Rose Society.
    So there are humans everywhere inside or outside that help not hurt or hinder.
    But finding them and some are destroyed.
    But I hold out for that. Not all resisters in WWII died.
    And abortion and the fine line that gets so muddied by some groups it’s dometimes like dancing due to shot gun fire. Ethics and dialogue tools needed!

  • Thanks Bonnie. I find it more of a mindset that is always a part of the culture in many global areas that waxes and wanes , rises and falls, but now like you I am so worried not only of its ascendency but of the children now and those to come. So many are now existing in no win/ no win situations.
    One thinks one has found a voice from the past or present and then eugenics or propsychiatry, or something yuck pops up. And some folks one knows which oh my especially when they get community accolades.
    Genocide – I now know it comes in so many forms and so many multitudes of deaths.
    Ravenbruck – I think of your efforts with the female murders on the reservations.
    I am not looking at this point for fixes. At this point I just want voices and eyes and ears atleadt trying to work together.

  • Kelly, close but no cigar. I had to stop reading because there are some wounds that are almost beyond empathy and either you never had it or IDK.
    When a human is in a place or sheer terror or horror the wound analogy misses something.
    The mothers – documented in Louise Erdrich and Toni Morrison novels who had to let their infants die to go on living. That my dear is all things being equal very much not being equal because it NEVER SHOULD have happened.
    This is the HORROR of our world terrible things happening to both children and adults not because of any inner psychic issue but the complete and utter inequality of the world.
    The knowledge to avoid most of our tragedies is there just certain folks don’t want to be bothered.
    As hard as your own hardness in life is unfortunately there are others unable to voice the true reality of life as it is these days.
    House in Detroit, Michigan visit there and write for them or better yet teach them how not only to witness but to act.
    We have to have both and it cannot be done without human andhumane. Support.

  • Sandy, I am glad you took time to read and review the book. I had seen the reviews and was wondering if it would be discussed here.
    I think it is a beginning crack but small and isolated in the elitist world of American academia. And thanks for the shout out to Laura. If the professor had true intelligence and creativity she would have co- authored the book with Laura.
    I still contend chemical treatment or maybe just say chemotherapy it fits in terms of bad side effects but is not even targeting bad cells to kill – is a band aid solution and now has morphed into a quasi legal solvo.
    The tools to treat humans in distress from trauma of all kinds in all configurations,or problematic withdrawal or a spiritual crisis or whatever are either few and far between, difficult in having, expensive, or hum labor intensive, or still nonexistent.
    So because of the expediency of pills or injections a dream for authortaritive administrators of all kinds. The perfect fit.
    So every professional is forced into this band aid approach and instead of helping folks, many times hurt is put upon other hurt.
    One can be a kind and compassionate professional but even then, one still has to play in the system and follow the systems rules. Some systems are less oppressive than others. But bottom line if one merely looks at the stats- the system ain’t working and folks are only getting worse.
    I would propose instead of a Physcians for Social Responsibility – remember that group? Psychiatrists Against Oppression and start actively being active not with books or papers but on your feet. The Benjamin Spock MD way.
    As a survivor even with First Amendment Rights to Free Speech if I choose to go out and protest if word gets out to the police or I act out of the margins- my very very strong fear is I will not just get picked up and arrested and charged like the Catholic protest at the Russell Building with elderly nuns and elderly lay folks- my fear- is – I will be pink slipped along with a violation charge.
    6 hours at a police station is nothing compared to days of forced medication.
    Because I live a Venn Digram life, I am not unopposed to working with dissident MH folks and can agree to disagree re the use of chemicals as long as we all agree band aid and things need to change.
    The issue with us survivors is our voices and power to be heard have been quashed in multiple levels. This is also true of any othered type culture or group of human beings these days.
    So a joint effort might be what Saul Alinsky’s ghost might say is all of our best chance at beginning whatever- change, transformation, or new entity type of support.
    There just needs to be some ground rules.
    As survivors we were abused and I do not say this lightly as a twenty year trauma involved LISW. The periods of my hospitalizations were the worst moments of my life and pure hell.
    The floors that I were on were so much much worse than any I had worked on as a staff member. They were nothing but prisons.
    So all survivors who have experienced this so called treatment will be angry and the anger can be scatter shot.
    Forgive us are legitimate anger and do not take it personally. It is what it is.
    What we ALL want is this never to be normal again and have the abuse stop.
    Then if this can be recognized let’s work together to stop things as they are.
    One needs voices st every state and local area and in a national context as well.
    And in Academia, in the board rooms, on Wall Street and in the streets.
    Your voice can be the shot heard round the world that opens up and allows our experiences to be heard and then possible ephinanies May come.
    It’s just too late to do the old ways- too much entrancement b so many powerful folk.
    Maybe just tumor board meetings – the oppsies when the medical model fails in situ? They do it for every other legitimate medical department. That would be one very small way of changing the mind set. Cracks before tanks maybe?
    As always just some barnstorming ideas.

  • Perhaps the concept of trauma centers with some medical professions out of the loop completely.
    And then the concept of those who experience alternative realties which most indengenious populations had or have in terms of a certain clan. The Hebrew Levi families and Cohn? In the “ priest” category.
    Don’t even deal with the pull concept. X them out of the board game and up to individuals if they choose with true informed consent.
    Like a cancer support agency I know of all sorts of supports and intergenerational but chemotherapy or not out of the loop.

  • Interesting and hard look research Phil. Thanks. If I had known of these articles I never would have tried to walk into the MH world. The writing reeks of total robotic mind.
    My father was a physician and he said at the end he would do it over again and go into molecular biology but he thought in a humane way and had no respect for psychiatry. He would have been fascinated by the Cascade phenomena in medical crisis situations and the fact more neurons are located in the digestive system than anywhere else. So they had a finger in the door and blew it all to smithereens.
    Phoebe yes the old definition of depression. I talked to a Georgetown psychiatrist resident about a client from a state institution whom he had dx as endgenously depressed. State institution for the Developmentally Disabled no understanding of well yeah.
    To Ann. RIP. Another Georgetown student who missed the mark among way too many.
    Stockholders- very difficult to know because of BUNDLING. I once asked to see what social justice stocks I could put my retirement fund in and CVS was the stock of choice. So in terms of fighting the opioid and other Big Pharma by Wall Street means the greeders – new name let’s label them for what they all are had the con going with the start of mutual funds. The shell game played not on the street or county or state fairs but nationally and globally and
    we all walked by eating the cotton candy and fried hot dogs.
    Even those in the field who were decent had issues and were unable to cope with them in a best case scenario way. Bruno Bettelheim who did wonderful writing was a WWII Concentrstion Camp or refugee and there were big issues in his work. Trauma defines us all and if we cannot dialogue and acknowledge the issues we all carry on our backs the effects of trauma will grow exponentially.
    We need tools just like technology. Without ethics and a moral code and constant dialogue it becomes another nine headed monster.

  • Leah, I would have liked to see more in-depth reporting on several areas that you only mentioned in padding but I think need much more light.
    Do you or others know the history of past government congressional and White House conferences and hearings?
    There used to be a fair number. This hearing was done by the Oversight Committee! What is wrong with this?
    The Senate and White House Administration ain’t hearing nothin! And the press as well.
    Second- one needs to look at every Republican member on committees such as these. Not because I am against the old Republican Party but now many Congress folks are funded by NRI and other not so benign entities. Rep. Jordan also has a history that should be explored as well in terms of possible knowledge of abuse.
    A History of Florence Crittenton would be helpful for folks to see how not all agencies were always always awful,. I worked there part time and it was before chemicals were given Carte Blanche to children and adolescents in the system and the program had its strengths.

  • Erinco, interesting writing but you seem to be blinded by Mr. Stern’s intelligence and verbal skills. His case is a great example of surface cure. And this has been the blaring siren song of psychotherapy. If not done well and if there is a power differential say starpower the analyst is just as much a prisoner as the patient.
    For all his so called” insight” Mr. Stern has not owned up to or expressed sorrow and guilt over his decades long verbally abusive radio show. When he was not part of the problem he was aiding and abetting others in their isms of all kinds say like maybe birtherism?
    I have heard no true apology. I have heard no OMG ephiphany of true insight.
    So yeah the three times to five times a week can change people in some ways but ah the concept of social justice, equality, and the concept of common good – the image of one as a human in a planet in crisis – there are other ways to help oneself and see how interconnected we all are.
    BTW one free way of doing psychoanalysis sign up to work with a Clinic who trains folks. Like other professions the student analysis is free.
    So thanks for the economic lesson but old stuff and when one picks a subject make sure the subject actually fits the definition of cured. My guess he has not been able to learn empathy and like a kindergartener can use the vocabulary but has no idea of the real meaning behind them.

  • Good to see the timeline but hard to read about the death of someone caught in a tangle of modern life.
    It ‘s all there though not highlighted.

    Altar boy- I would wonder about abuse

    Poorly fitting school environment

    Opioid script possible addiction and potential nondiagnosed concussion.

    Trauma/ the death of a parent

    – the MH professionals should have addressed all of these issues straight on so maybe incompetentency in the MH system pervasive malpractice orgininating in education at the college and graduate level though there have been books and research on cultures but small and never integrated
    into the general mind set of society.
    SANSHA dual dx but never into the opioid diseaster and never into the idea of addiction as possible way of coping with trauma.
    Other issues gender identity and sexuality and bullying in school and was the school Catholic? Or like the public schools of England and other countries where from Tom Brown’s School Dsys and prior to and beyond the abuse could be both from peers and or adults. Luck of the draw for all of us.
    If you watch the series on Cheyrobol somehow easier to watch for me than the searing expose of pain shown in the Central
    Park 5 series and documentary – the Workers st the plant – 7 to 1 and they had been programmed always to obey the leader even if the leader were clearly wrong. So much for the lessons of the Nuremberg Trials unless this is an op for interweaving how Trauma seeds do much in all our human systems.

  • Julie, what always bothered me in leaving a place with so called issues sometimes voluntarily or sometimes because of politics, or other because of draconian paperwork requirements or even those times when the transition to end employment was smooth-
    I always felt pain for those folks left behind. It was both the folks and sometimes the staff. But especially if children were involved, another loss to lives of too too many losses and bad luck. So it was trauma for me as well.
    Damn I couldn’t do what I could have done or wanted to do. Stymied by the folks who only see money really I don’t have any other explanation other than greed or maybe zombie hood.
    Take care of yourself too. The yuck factor spreads.
    The other issue of bullying. Online bullying happens and is nefarious because so hard to prove and NOBODY wants to touch it with a ten foot pole- NOBODY.
    There is nothing worse to hear as a parent with an adolescent I don’t want to go to school not because of learning but because of bullying.
    The other factor is money – parents with means wield a heavy sword above teachers and the school board heads and if a offspring is involved- Not My Child!
    Which actually red flag educators a parent who is a so called good parents will know all kids aunt angels and be willing to ponder okay what could my child have done? Knowing kids to stupid and mean things and part of growing up is learning not to do stupid and mean things because really what mother wants to have to ask the question did I raise a monster?
    And then what abuse have the bullies endured? Children do not just become bullies. Though sometimes there are children you wonder but then I come back to intergenerational trauma or trauma at conception or in the womb.
    My child’s solution was to go to Community College And was awoken to the real world and did just fine.
    My talks with the superendent and police liaison officer were futile. The principal was not an option because she had verbally abused another child.
    The Guidance Department folks were useless in that they saw experienced bullying and did NOTHING.
    When your child is called down to Guidance and the staff is commandeered to stand in a line and watch as a traffic ticket is issued to an unsuspecting teen who is in AP and a busy volunteer then one knows the whole community is involved in the bullying.
    Someday , I hope to move since the community bullying continues to this day.
    Thanks for sharing your experience. Education can be so important and good but it also can be as evil as the devil.

  • My sense is that it is ultimately a red herring dialogue because if money were not involved in the process no diagnosis would ever be needed because it would only be a transaction between the helper and helpee.
    Money makes the MH world go around and some folks have figured out how to game the system bigly.
    Ida foundation or government agency would just offer salary and not require payback part of the false dichomity would be leveled.
    Title I Social Workers were paid that way as well asHospital Social Workers but that was long ago and now far away.
    By doing eliminating payment for services more time and energy could be used for addressing real mumtiststemic needs like say our earth and housing? As just two of a flood of needs.
    Think of all the time energy these folks put in and still in a quagmire.
    I appreciate the efforts but eliminate all payment entities and beucracies and go back to small clusters or one to one. Even bartering would be better than all the interference set up to block humans in need of whatever fill in the blank to get the help they need or want or desire.
    And if folks were educated on the how to for taking care of ethics they could in many cases be a umbrella. Perps use oeople’s ignorance and fear in any power situation- take away the ignorance and fear and there is a less chance of abuse.

  • If Tina really did help thanks!
    There are tons of books, plays, television shows, and movies.
    Some are into the biochemical approach some are not.
    There seems to be a timeframe with the early sixties past and after taking a nonchemical approach- “ I Never Promised You a Rose Garden”
    Movies such is “ A Child is Waiting” and “ Lisa and David” skim the area but are not true survivors films.
    After Jen Jersey’s “ Ine Flew Over the Cuckoo Nest” which was biographical portrayed as fiction – things started changing and there has been a steady stream of folks who are fine taking the chemicals proscribed. Kay Redfield Jamestown MD is one
    Cheryl Townsend started Intentional Peer Support And has some writing our Don Writz Book is here free.
    There are so many strands from Sci FYI to Horror to “Almost Normal”
    The psych survivor tales get pushed out by the literary big wigs because many many are involved in treatment and using the chemicals.
    I still have not been able to figure out the whole addiction process in all of this.
    12 step folks struggle as well.
    Old timers would say no way to any chemicals and then there were so many folks but my doctor gave me a prescription that it seems many became resigned to their use. But some 12 steppers will swear some are addictive.
    And with the opioid mess it gets to be a real nightmare. And the medical profession seems lost.
    I think they know but see chemicals as a band aid to stop the bleeding but everyone who is aware band sids are not long term solutions and do not cure.
    If anyone wants I could write a blog on the arts and name more names and artistic endeavors and it could be used as an ongoing list for folks. I certainly don’t know everything and even what I do know hits and misses.
    Especially if oneblioks st this white privilege. This is a huge gap. Other subjects touch in this like Roseanne Guy’s “Hunger”
    We need so much more than we have no to pull it all together. Do many times it seems multiple hidden moons circling.

  • Maybe what is needed is a piece on how to talk to folks or dialogue with them in regards to getting help or if they have pondered medication.
    Because of the vast amount of Pharma ads and the way they are designed and implemented one would think of them as a solution. The madmen and madwomen know humans and are good at manipulation and propaganda.
    There actually is a medical advertising hall of fame or should I say Shame?
    So we all are immersed in this level of subtle manipulation on an ongoing basis.
    So this is what I have done in my best self way- not every day is my best self and the rage comes and goes but when things are calm.
    Okay so you want to work in some things- nite here- try to wait until I think I need help with this ————- full in the blank issue. To intervene as in an intervention do not do this unless you are prepared to accept responsibility from any negative fallout and do not cherry pick asking others about concerned person I would say don’t go there at all. Wait, be patient trust folks to know they may be in crisis.
    I had an intervention done to me and as someone I lived once said to me the path to hell is paved with good intentions.
    That being said if someone does identify a need of their own give them multiple options and information. If for sin reason in too much crisis do reflective listening and give simple options.
    Most of the time the problem is the LACK of GOOD OPTIONS.
    Ask for help from someone else or with lived experience.
    I refer folks here and say I can tell you my story and thoughts.
    U suggest all the alternative therapies saying – this is a journey, some may work , some may not.
    Try to give low cost options or creative ways to get low cost options for alternatives ie massage schools, yoga teacher training – FREEBIES!
    For talk therapy say try at least three folks – hit or miss- research each therapist
    What do you want help with? What do you want to do yourself?
    Sometimes some people have found help with medication but no one really knows why and then issues with taking are threefold and tell them.
    Offer to go with them and be an ear and eye. One can ask to record interview or session.
    And again I would repeat over and over this is your journey yeah it s—— that you are here but use it as a tool and sometimes better actually comes. And if they don’t believe okay but if I am right you buy me lunch? Humor is essential. And listen and shut up until specifically asked.
    And the best thing is not to go away even if asked. Wait, sometimes the tuner stumbles and really does need a help or and or the finish line is reached and they want to process the journey.
    And be truthful.If you don’t know you really don’t know.
    So these are my thoughts/ do whatever with them as you all see fit.

  • Auntie, I have always liked your moniker.
    I think Sandra like the U.N. official- see latest MIA post is walking with us.
    How close and I sync are dimensions of individualism seen on any piligrimagr route. It is a process and so many ways.
    As in Dickens’ “ Oliver Twist” the reply to the question- “ Barkis is willing” is there though subtle .
    The U.N. route or The Hague is the way to go,
    The time is now not for vocalizing our so justified outrage but to work to get the tribunal. Don’t bsrk up the wrong tree!
    The fellow pilgrims may smell, one might agree on everything, and they may anger one at times but heck they on the road.
    I joe someday we can say we are all passing third and going home.

  • Alessa well yes of course the ice of using other alternatives to chemicals even of short duration is the primary goal.
    Thequqmire is most so called places of help only have chemicals are are basically prison barracks.
    One would hope there could be a sea change with trauma centers and if needed smallsmall units until all the support systems and alternatives could be put in place.
    Still some folks may still want a chemical option and again choice even a choice oneself disagrees with is paramount. If they have true informed consent and know the risks of addiction and withdrawal – there problem.
    But still there is the issue of forced treatment

  • Annita, the spelling of your name unusual but very interesting personal story. You were in the “Splendor in the Grass” or “Sybil” white female in crisis who lucked out as so many many do not.
    Your economic class ensured a sense of buoyancy but the pain of abuse and the treatment cannot be dismissed nor should anyone’s trauma.
    I knew what your story was as soon as a started reading. Past professional knowledge base.
    Your reading of medical records without support why?

    When I went to ask the medical records department of a certain local hospital the female clerk said quote unquote you are not going to like what is in there.
    Talk about malpractice in all its forms!
    That was the worst part of trying to piece together a seemingly unsolvable puzzle. The gall of that woman!!!!!!!!!

    So as Mary Oliver has written what are you going to do with your one wild truthful life now?

    How are you going to help? What you and others experienced so many have not. Not happy ending.What do you see for yourself? How did you treat your patients? Did social justice ever become a concern or cause?
    Did you stay in that bubble and practice there?
    It would be helpful to know. I am glad you survived. Your voice is needed!

  • Sandy thanks for the discussion but a very hard read for me on the psych survivor side of my life and also as a past professional in the field.
    This discussion is flashback city. But there it is and the last section about the insidious low drumbeat should have been first out of the door.
    But here are my thoughts
    1) Having developed Parkinsonism and told by a neurologist to stop well yeah but after inpatient experiences that out fear into my soul marrow- it would have helped for him- oh my – to actively advocate for me.
    In a different world we’re my father and other folks practiced it would have been a no brained call and write a letter to document your medical assessment .
    I had to stop on my own violation and it took years and I still carry the burden of weight.
    So maybe a team approach?
    2) The discussion of Haldol is chilling to read with current prescription practices and advertising being totally marketed as the real thing.
    As you may know Haldol was a go to prescription for the elderly who exhibited so called problematic behavior.
    On the medical unit we had folks thinking they were at a restaurant, someone circling the floor thinking she had lost her flight in the airport, and more.
    Nursing staff and residents were doing the right thing just trying to go with the flow and reassure as much as possible.
    Medical students however would be alarmed and would order Haldol but they weren’t always good about knowing the right doses for certain populations or the concept of mileu and now today Improv work with the confused elderly so danger for patients st times.
    When I was in crisis and inpatient I begged for 5 mg Haldol but no and proof positive I was really “ crazy”
    So this is a sad confirmation, I was right. I knew the dangers, saw the Code Blue but also aware of the new drugs- did not trust since 1981 biomarkers for depression- Never found.
    3) The issue of advertising and guild protection circling the wagons subtle but there and yes. The same folks who created the opioid crisis in many ways also as a precursor similar to the Nazi early experiments with the handicapped and homosexuals laid and profited off ALL of these chemical formulas.
    Also the end of patent copyright and more tools for them. The pain scale developed at from a Pain Management Department at Tufts by Aa very very generous grant by the Family of psychiatrists who created their own chemical company.
    4) The concept of choice and informed concent in my time as patient clearly did not have that nor was I seen as a human being with any type of a personal or famial narrative. I was a mere cog who happened to have skin and bones and private insurance.
    You might be different and it certainly seems you really have tried to be open and see what lies beneath the psychiatry family room carpet. But one also must believe and respond to the horrors of personal experience. Just like sexual abuse survivors.
    How considering the muck of s—- not sure.
    5) Choice – on the medicalfloor there was a Type I diabetic of legal age who wanted to stop her insulin. She was allowed almost died then changed her mind. The idea of noncompliance was always at issue for all patients – the forcing of those who at the heart of it all are trauma from life folks is beyond chilling.
    The biopsychistry approach deliberately and willfully due to greed quashed any information on trauma and the history of alternative treatments that were used in the past. Check out Trudy Schoop/ never heard of her I bet —-yet she was there on the wards and many others ground into oblivion.
    So these are my thoughts. Since I worked in the field like you I have flashbacks for those times when I was blind and unaware. I went into the field because it did not make sense and it was such a large part of helping professions. The only positive in any of this is my hope for the truth and some sort of restorative justice.
    Leon Uris in one of his novels on the Israeli – Palestine conflict has a page or two on a psychrists suggestion for peace there
    It deserves reading and distribution.
    Basically own your mistakes, accept them, and apologize and then do what one can to restore the error. All of this in a framework of—— imperfection apologies will always miss the mark, owning up will always involve a but but but, and restoration really only a sembalabce or symbol.
    But there it is a guide for a very very imperfect world. And even tribunals cannot undo the horror and tragedy.
    But those who actually performed and profited from crimes against humanity that is also part of restorative justice.
    May the dialogue continue and please speak truth to power you can do it.

  • So Pacific Dawn does your statement mean or include me?
    I am a former practioner but have lived psych survivorship?
    Again like in Nazi Germany, Apartheid South Africa, Vichy France, the American Jim Crow South and past and present, and those who worked with First Nation peoples bad bad and more bad but there were some who tried to help who if nothing else recognized the wtf aspect of these and other systems.
    And if you did try things fall apart despite one’s best intents.
    So have your anger but see it as a fabric of sky on a cloudy night with a passing light or two.
    Fabric can be used or ripped apart shredded or painted on- up to you.
    I really like your thinking and knowledge base. What would Andrea Dworkin do or say? She admitted she loved the writing of the old white men sexist and whatever else they were.
    Coming from her timeframe we had no other choice but to learn and if awake try to expolate from that KNOWING old white guys are in our mindset forever.
    Think on this please.
    Mad mom- right on target in many ways- see above words.
    You need to be on a Board with your knowledge and passion.

  • More than a sigh with this small gleaming.
    Back in the day, professional folks were supposed to work as a team and in the margins oh my the so called patient was suppose to be part of the team. Nothing nothing new here just confirmation of the amensia the last thirty to forty years.
    In teaching hospitals the med students and or residents come from or act as if they come from privileged backgrounds.
    Many have no concept of the feel and look and smell and sound of poverty.
    In my area the RC nuns tried to go into the urban areas to live and many, many could not handle the experience. Catholic Worker and other social justice/ spiritual folks could but again time limited and NOT intergenerational.
    And female health and narratives? Trans and gender? Now not there st all in biopsychistry though my place of work did have a gender transition program and psych was supportive. Things were starting to bubble up and biomarkets and better living through chemistry became an almost only option. Thank you DuPont, Monsanto, and all the Big Pharma national and international for profit big pockets only for me and my family decades of hard hard work. All those emails!
    If one looks at history , actually dance therapy and body movement work developed by guess what females totally squashed. Check out Trudy Schoop and her dance cohorts.
    These folks are just playing the game to look good and trying to gage the current and future times for ONLY their benefit.
    What I want, need and sometimes literally crave is a formal recognition of damage done, formal far reaching apology, and some kind of restorative justice for all of us harmed.
    Again IDK like the church and other institutions outside tribunal may be the only way to achieve any type of concrete change or reformation.
    Humans will always need support but this at least for me not support just horror though the kids in the s
    detention camps have it worse.And nothing is happening in terms of getting The Hague or UN involved.
    It seems we are frozen in any ability not only to speak truth to power but to have all these acts of abuse and torture stopped. There is some talk here and there but too much infighting, too much legitimate and no legitimate fear, and too many zombies in our midsts.

  • Again I come to the concept of further dialogue
    Terry Tempest Williams’s book “ Finding Besuty in a Broken World” has several chapters on the Rowandan genocide and life as it is. There are some powerful thoughts expressed on language and throughout the book.
    Survivor villages that still have ongoing multifaceted issues.
    And there are more places all over the world that this community could learn from and help.
    Maybe Survivor Global Networks.
    And in Africa as in other places one has to work with those who were once your enemies. One cannot amputate human beings. Though there have been times in my outrage I have thought not so peaceful thoughts.
    Check out pages270-271.

  • The concept of using label versus diagnosis is brilliant.
    The other aspect which Paula and others have not mentioned is the economic weight of so called diagnosis or labeling.
    In education and in the insurance world both public and private each label or fignistic entity carries financial weight.
    Institutions in order to make money or save money monitor this very closely.
    The other problem is there are legitimate medical disgnosises.
    I do not know how comfortable or uncomfortable folks are with legitimate medical labels.
    An amputee is an amputee there is no way around it though as traumatic as it is there some would say a great grief and period of real adjustment that could be life long. Depends because everyone is different.
    I would guess the issue that stands out for these folks is the concept of phantom limb pain.
    For along time it was not considered real. And some had it some not so like side effects of chemical treatment it had brought to the forefront of medical help.
    How did that process play out?
    The term chemo therapy should also be thought on. In its use side effects are considered real and some considered dangerous. Why such a divide?
    Chemicals are chemicals so any chemical given to humans should be termed chemotherapy implying not only real risk but real side effects.
    When folks move beyond stress to crisis or when one experiences altered mental states through substances or some experience there should be some lexicon. I have not figured out how to handle this.
    Then the poor to abusive treatment those of us who were in crisis or asked for help creates a new lexicon.
    Some folks got lucky and were helped but too many were hurt and though dealing with the double dipped situation has been difficult to say the least
    I find more support with the survivor concept than anything else. Walking through the fire seems to be the best metaphor. And that takes into account the time factor and back and forth recovery process.
    Ultimately metaphors and similes need to be agreed on throughout all the systems. That or a visual type of image.

  • Well Germany and the Allies did have the trials and there were massive educational programming. Scores of elementary schools were named for Sophie Scholl and Kathy Kollowitz. Corrie Ten Boom a Dutch Reformed Christian spent time in internment for helping out the Jewish folks in the Netherlands. Miep G. the same for the Frank Family. And yes they missed the genocide of the disabled and homosexual communities- the testing phrase learned from the Eugenic movement in the states and other countries.
    Soviet Russia had generations of all sort of pogoms. Which leader did which? Do which groups- changed with the decade. And any tyrant at any time look under the rugs and there it all is.
    But the trials did happen. Read Hannah Arndt.
    The Slave Trade in America – the North played a silent partner role.
    It ain’t never gonna be perfect but something needs to be done.
    The legislation though probably well intentioned – so many folks don’t know what they don’t know not best practice.
    Call your legislatures and do something. Check out the opioid action at the Met. They did it.

  • Well it is a start though I have concerns.
    Before policy there should have been and or a White House Conference on both Adult and Childhood Trauma, Congressional Hearings on Trauma to be real one would need to highlight First Nation Peoples Trauma, African American Trauma caused by institutional and non institutional racism, Trauma from Sexism, Tbe effects of Moral injury trauma due to First Responders and Safety and Protective Forces primary and secondary and tertiary trauma, the Trauma of Incarceneration All Systems ——see Charles Dickens writing about his travel to America and he knew trauma and incarceration,
    Intergenerational Trauma, the Trauma of Sexism and much more.

    A Blue Ribbon Panel Or White Paper or Rainbow Two Year nationwide Listening Sessions and then a Third Year report with professionals and non professionals involved.
    These activities should be funded by the Big Pharma Industry who deliberately and willfully let greed versus ethical considerations run their business plans.
    Also any companies or financial entities or other profit or nonprofit groups that have indulged in deliberate malfeasance.
    That or have a Nuremberg type of Trial.
    Policies and legislation no matter how well entioned will far apart fast if not backed up by a system wide learning and nationwide outing of the corruption that had almost destroyed our country.
    Kudus for trying but dialogue before planning.

  • Thanks but I wish I hadn’t had to be a witness of what was going on from both sides.
    I still have never had a chance to process all that has happened on both sides. I had a program for the children of clients and that was whisked away. Staff that were brought into run the program would come up and say it was wrong but what folks say as an aside and what they would say in front of admin folks are two different things.
    There also incidences while I was inside that were bizarre and so scary hard to talk about and even after the experiences with supposedly safe folks never able to be actually listened to and believed.
    I travelled some places and at one location the man opened the door and said ping she is here. Go figure. A month ago I was verbally accosted by a person down the long neighborhood block around the corner while I was walking.
    I just live day to day and hope I will find a place that is safe for me. Maybe.

  • Steve, supposedly you have been around as long as I have. Burnout was big in the early eighties and was trending toward its the system stupid but all of the stupids realized with the help of others that anytype of victim was trouble so in came the meds, incarceration, gerrymandering, redlining, and massive amnesia.
    Literally all agency meetings became explanations for how to play the cat and mouse game admin folks were playing with both state and federal agencies.
    It completely stopped being about the old term here you may have heard person in society.
    Any sense of social justice perspective or advocacy for others was out the door. It was all about money.
    Reg folk from the actual agency watchdog and other source of funding governmental and nongovernmental sources would go through record notes, yes folks your records were always seen on a random basis for compliance if the correct vocabulary were used and correct time spent ect ect the billable hour would be paid. If not the offending staff would be eventually through various ways and means be shown the door.
    Some MH agencies had a pharmacy tied to county or state. Many people were non compliant and I have never figured out how that system worked or didn’t work.
    Big Pharma came but not like in medicine. A lunch here a lunch there and if you were 50,000 in debt from college a free lunch is a free lunch.
    Funny how Big Pharma never was intelligent to use theirgrand expense accounts to offer a free meal to the community MH clients.
    There were some ground breaking programs but rife and fraught. And again good ideas and people were always beaten down- always.
    There should be a list of crimes committed and crimes for those actions that were deliberately and willfully not done that caused harm.
    Staff and former staff need to take on this. They know and many if not dead by vocation are retired.
    And the administrators off all systems and ilks- they bear the responsibility for committing and creating these crimes.

  • Alex, I am thinking of two ways. One some form of repetition and restorative justice. There could be two ways.
    One through the opioid crisis because guess who conned the medical system regarding pain? The same folks who gamed the MH field with false theories of Mental Illness is like diabetes.
    Some of the same Big Pharma folks were double dipping with both types of medications.
    If we could join class action suits somehow. But again they can see it with opioids so many don’t see for MH issues. Partly because some folks feel better. There is no paradigm.
    If one talks to 12 steppers they know some of the SSRI used for pain and they had to be really assertive in saying no this is addictive and I refuse to take it.
    The other is the gun control folks in that shooting survivors are know finding out the lead in the bullets and fragments left in their bodies are causing lead poisoning. Kind of a stretch but still. Many of the groups are more open to looking at systemic and gun industry and advertising issues rather than the proverbial “ crazy” person and then again there is much more to that narrative.
    The other way is to establish trauma centers. Mini Soteria Houses si to speak for all in the community. All of this is all human trauma so why not start the work for an eventual start?
    I hope for a White House Conference on Trauma and Congressional Hearings on Trauma but maybe in the future.
    We have to join together with all the victims of trauma and swallow some stuff stand strong on others things but if we see and after living life as it is now – we all are traumatized and there in might be the answer.

  • This is one of the hidden secrets of the MH industry. There is burnout and high turnover with poor working conditions and the benefits in some states meager.
    In one agency they had graphs of employees billable hours on the hallways. If you did not fill monthly requirements you were at risk for losing your job. Three months of not meeting the deadline and poof you are gone- no matter how good you were as a helper and support professional.
    Many staff take the same medications so it is literally so to speak the blind leading the blind.
    It was traumatic to work in many agencies due to one’s own stuff and then secondary and tererary trauma.
    How many clinical folks lost a client to suicide? That is a whole book in and of itself.
    Paperwork perfection was all that mattered to the administrators -many who never wanted or cared to work with humans in need.
    High turnover better financially.
    Draconian demands and poor everything else. So all the bad behavior and inhumanity could be from the dysfunctional system and those who decided to stay without awokeness.
    Double and triple whammy.
    If one thinks about it, the MH system a separate mirror and the client system a separate mirror reflecting back on and rerefecting all the shadowed dysfunctions to infinity and ad nausuem.
    One needs to step out or break the system of mirrors.

  • Yes Rachel that craving happened to me and looking back oh yeah my clients with their diet pop from morning until night.
    There must be a connection.
    Also blurry vision, that was the worst because I cut down on my driving and no medical profession ever ever explored how asa mother of a large family how could Icope with the driving and other stuff with the side effect of Parkininsom as well.
    It was a nightmare and the lost years at times are so painful to sit with. Somehow there needs to be a reckoning.
    And Lawerence for his truthfulness, worked in a bubble.

  • Lawerence , your explanation of the historical timeline fits my own perspective.
    However, when I was in crisis I could not debate with your peers who relied on psychophamacits who said if Lamictal worked she meaning me was Bipolar. She actually fired me for calling her right then and there and my mother pushed me to call not I because to actually is not playing by the rules but my mother had a disabled husband, and other crisises and hadn’t like myself been exposed to the brave new world of Pharma.

  • Elizabeth thank you for your story. Ian so sorry this was a nightmare for all of you in the family. Harm was done.
    I hope things go better and maybe some folks will be brave and admit Harm was done.
    Not all but many so called helpers were and are harmets for a wide layered reasons. We need to look at all of the system and stop the harming and hurting and abuse and yes st times the killing.
    If one is real and humble one welcomes investigation and evaluation and says this is where I think I blew it, this is what I don’t know. What do I need to make recompense?

  • Well yeah but they are recommitting the original sin- not going to those who have survived and the second layer which is separating themselves from being human and actively traumatized as humans living in this world. Then the third layer the difficult, moral harm done to those they tried to help by their ignorance.
    Until there is a true clearinghouse we all will be bogged down by separations.
    One of the psychiatrists I respected and there are some – not all are evil, he was a Vietnam vet and had a small disability. At clinical rounds- bad idea but okay it was there he would get in a discussion of cooking with the patient presented. Just an over the fence conversation. He got dissed but I really , really liked him for his ability to see a patient as an actual human being. And he was not perfect but he tried. And maybe errors and mistakes and misguided learning but who of all of us had not walked in those wrong foot shoes or untied shoelaces.
    Empathy needs to go all ways or the anger will become bitterness and then hostility and then hate and then voila moral harm.
    Keep the memory but don’t injest the outrage.

  • Stephan thank you for all of the historical information on First Nation forced residential treatment. I as usual, had no idea it was so horrorific. No way out. So many folks in your culture, in my culture with the Magdalene Laundries, in the deaf communities, and on and on.
    This is so important t know. I wish we had both rituals and sacred ground for all the forgotten human beings.

  • The key words are- “ as advocates of children and families mental health.”
    They should see and protest themselves as advocates for children and families.
    This idea had been around for a long, long time. Normal Schools actually highlighted social issues and some public school systems had Open Air Schools for medically fragile children with a nurse who did home visits and a physician and the surgeon currant health food of the day graham crackers and cream cheese.
    In the early 1980’s when child physical abuse was recognized but not sexual abuse there the beginnings of good hearted programs. Not that they were the best but essentially well meaning. They did not last because trauma and the concept of both macro and micro societal factors were never addressed.
    One local program was for identifying depression in teens. The father was a survivor but really really into the biopsych approach. It never got off the ground. Another was the idea of cutting in teens to teens. There was a more of a trigger event then solid help.
    It was like walking on the moon. So much was not understood and many tried things to quickly in ignorance.
    Not having access to the psych survivor history was a tragic and huge loss.
    There was much hidden from view.
    Title 1 reading programs incorporated both student and family support but the Social Work Staff were the first folks cut in school budget debacles.
    At that time, it was support and advocacy and never ever much about medication.
    This was also during the waves of desegregation and now looking back at the history of lynching I knew but honestly knew nothing about, no wonder kids did not want to go to school or the kids that did, the terror their families held in their hearts and heads.
    We the professionals and the government and the communities blew it big time and part of our suffering now as a nation is part and parcel of that tangled tragic history.
    Same for First Nation children who were forcibley moved to residential schools.
    I would like to think that psych survivors here and now can use our own tragic experiences to voice what so many children could and never did speak. We know.
    That maybe is true advocacy being a witness for not only ourselves and each other
    but all who encountered true abolition of human rights and dignity.
    It would be a door of hope if even beginning steps could be taken.

  • Actually how very sad that racism and othering were not stopped but continued to grow almost exponentially.
    I remember volunteering at a special needs classroom and the teachers were in awe that Semase Street had visuals of at least one Down Syndrome child. They also were truthful about Mr. Hooper’s death. And Maria’s pregnancy and her daughter’s birth.
    This was on the cusp of the debate on victim blaming and white men making correct and non correct assessments on African American culture and other cultures. The voices of so called others in the MH system became under attack and incarceration became the norm.
    The strains of colonialism, racism, sexism that were seeded from the start of the European movement over the ocean and First Nation folks had their own weaknesses but thrived until they and our immigrant ancestors arrived.
    It could have been the start of something evolutionary.
    Now Sessme Street is involved with cable and PBS stations are the second act.

  • Sera, thanks again for your thoughts. The two words frought and distraught come to mind. They overlap and become entangled in many interactions on both sides of the divide. Fear and then power and control issues rise up and those with the big stick win.
    Because I interact with various folks with a different set of life experiences than I , but once I was like them in the time before my internment in MH world I struggle to find vocabulary words.
    Educators need labels even if they don’t believe in them, the system does and thus turns the world and or our stomachs. We live in systems that are corrupt and other than dropping out which some of us do to varying degrees we all still have to cope with the stems we are enmeshed with. This is a good definition of enforced insanity.
    One way I have thought to upend the vocabulary paradigm is to think of all humans as a piece of sheet music. For those youngsters, sheer Music was once the hottest thing going say in the 1930’s.
    The sheets had the written music to a popular song or composer or singer, take your pick. If detached from the illustrated title cover one could if one was able to comprehend music put a snapshot to the type, kind of music, but also recognize it was a complete and separate identity of music composition.
    We are all separate pieces of sheet music but many of the professionals in any helping professions have not be taught the vobsbusry or how to score or write or read.
    One must understand history, the ancient music as well as current, the musical themes that rise in particular times. The ethnic- cultural of music, most cultures have percussion but how beautiful and how different from the bodhran to the steel drum.
    There is bass and cleft, patterns and empty space, there are chords and single notes, there are various beats and breaths. One can categorize but only for simplicity sake. To be a great work one does not have to come from anyplace or anywhere and even childre’s songs and lullabies have their own special place and magic.
    If we all could see and hear and acknowledge one another as human music compositions maybe there might be no need for fear and the words frought and distraught would only be used for reclaitrant music students who are not willing to learn.

  • Putting on my retired professional hat on, this is old stuff. If one looks up all the old journals of “ The Journal of Psychoanalytic Thought” or a similar title- every volume ended with a discussion on creativity. Freud and others like Nancy Anderson were obsessed with those folks that fell into the creative spectrum. In fact, I posit , they were in fact jealous as all get out that they did not have access to the creative gift. Not all but others were just admiring as all get out as well.
    Labels are only a snapshot and in the best sense a mere tool for discussion.
    Any other use is not helpful.
    We as humans all have our weaknesses and strengths and because we are a species who and what we are can fall into categories. Most male birds have bright colors. Most female birds are less colorful.
    Our differences as humans are our strength. Unfortunately, some folks want us all to fit into square peg holes. Never, ever gonna happen.
    What the writers should have focused on is the trauma in Leonardo’s life. Try being an illegitimate son in 1600 Italy!
    Try to live life with some of your so called art patrons being corrupt families who not only have government power but also great influence in religion and are known to poison enemies. Just that life fact would make even the most brilliant human dart here and there at times seemingly without focus.
    He also went to the ends of branches in his work. He examined dead bodies to gain clearer understanding of the human body.That did not buy him power or influence. There is of course more but I will let everyone do research for themselves.
    The only thing I struggle with is how to talk about human beings. When a co-worker used the special needs phrase for her child, I was unable to speak with her more. Was it a wall? Did she want me to ask questions?
    As an LD person never diagnosed in childhood , I did it myself with newspaper articles. It is there no denying but I am more than LD but my guess is it helps to have the ability to converse. And so many folks are gobsmacked by LD stuff but everyone claims to know about all the psych labels. Go figure that great evolution.
    And as a former therapist, if I ever encountered a Da Vinci it would be for support. Looking back at history only shows your own idealigical prejudice if one is not awoke.

  • This research makes me want to cry. The wheel of Adolescence care has already been invented but banished to the dustbin and landfills to make good and sure any good would be totally forgotten. Thanks so much folks whoever you are. Job well done! It will take another generation for old stuff to be found on archeological digs and new support for new Adolescent paradigms for care.
    Back in the day, there actual oh my! Adolescent Units with kids and teens from every medical department under the sun. All mixed together.
    Back in the previous day, Dr Peter Blos and Dr Peter Blos Jr wrote extensively on this era of childhood transition and nope no bio psychiatry at all, at all.
    There were issues of all kinds but again coming from both inside and out side- I would have given my eye teeth to have been placed in an unit like the Adolecent Unit I worked on or in some of the therapeutic mileu places.
    One of the weaknesses was the young staff almost peers but not and substance abuse on both sides
    If a survivor approach would have been taken maybe better care.
    And trauma- Staff was suppose to be cool and in control. Not really at times, because trauma we all deal with it.

  • Okay, glad to see the research and discussion but again we have layers of concern. If one lives in substandard housing and one lives in fear of shootings by all aspects of society how can a child really learn? This is over and above the components of life in the ACE study.
    Also ACE is really an inter generational nexus. It ain’t just the patient in the office, the child acting out in school, the father in jail, the substance addicted helping professional in all areas, the clergy, the legal professionals who have chosen greed over ethics, it is all of us.
    Until we see humanity as in great distress as the environment and earth crisis without resolution will continue.
    We all have different weaknesses and strengths and so many folks need to wake up- the canaries are in trouble.

  • This the study of TBI, should be a standard course in the first year medical and other medical field related professions.
    There is neuroplascity but the underlying history of traumatic brain injury has been completely ignored by Psychiatry.
    Sports, car accidents, falls, all could possibly make one have issues that could be easily misinterpreted as so called crazy. Add to that ECT is TBI in reverse. Go figure that one out.
    The crux is psychiatry has missed multiple balls on multiple levels throughout its history but since the advent of Big Pharma it has lost its center- though I know some here would say it never had a moral core.
    I still say despite my own patient malpractice since I worked in the field beforehand there were some who had a caring core and some may still be around.
    The question how to handle the human being either in distress and or living in a state that is on or beyond the cultural borders. So far we as a species have failed except for those eras when there were better cultural supports and even in more open indeginious cultures there were and are issues.
    Back to the drawing board for all healthcare.

  • PD, Eve Ensler has just come out with new writing on trauma and recovery. One event had Glenn Close who did an anti stigma campaign on labeling but missed the mark. It was as a helpful family member not psych surivivor.
    Eve writes the apology she would have liked to hear from her father if he had seen the so called light of his parenting actions – which were really abusive in multiple ways.
    The discussion here as been lovely in terms of using a vocabulary that enables hard and painful dialogue.
    The parents especially mothers who are the ones to hold together everything with sometimes little or no community support and sometimes the support that is there takes along while sometimes to find one has been snookered and snickered.
    The group of support for multiples was more a money raiser than help. PTA a true grapevine – one has to pretend everything is just perfect, just perfect and then alone who do you blame? And if there are other issues? And if one really talks to other parents – yes we have at one time or another crossed the red line. And as mothers we bear the responsibility of seeing fathers verbally or physically berate our sons or I guess daughters and we become frozen. Trauma over and under and between and inside and below and above.
    For the mother with the son- I apologize I can’t recall and get your name.
    Kabul Gibran – are Children are not ours- arrows beyond us.
    Thanks to all for the words.

  • What might be an interesting construct to investigate is the character from “Alice in Wonderland.”
    The Mad Hatter was based on reality. Folks who worked in military factories became irrational and endured altered states. It was eventually discovered the chemicals used in the factory process were the cause.
    I find this haunting especially in our world. So much exposure so many suppressed and or uninvestigsted issues of altered mental states. Trauma is one layer but only one of many.

  • Good to sex abuse trauma brought up on this website.
    When one has been traumatized it can take years or never come out.
    One of my strongest issues with the psychiatric fields is the cover up and blatant disregard for the area of trauma. WWI soldiers were needed to return back to battle so the British Military became trauma recovery experts. The poet/ soldiers that survived were complimentary of their treatment.
    Many other writers wrote from their trauma after the war. Then trauma was forgotten though the negative societal issues continue to implode and transmute. Vets were part of the Black and Tan forces sent to Ireland. It did not go well. Moral injury over and between more moral injury.
    Sex abuse although not quite the same as veteran trauma but intertwined because of colleteral damage of civilians part and parcel at times.
    Children are so much more vulnerable and so less able to speak. No language but a cry truly.
    My best guess is that psychiatric professions misdiagnosed trauma victims as various labels including so called dkizophrenia. If one would study any case histories of WW1 of vets treated same symptoms of clusters with a non trauma related label now.

  • Thanks you. You had a much different experience than I had. I supervised a social work student who my own supervisor refused to work with because she was out with her status.
    Living in an area with many medical and academic institutions the peer movement was almost nonexistent. The one state peer group disbanded.
    I guess in my journey I am still caught in the abuse that occurred and lack of any ongoing peer contact that fits for me. Everything is NAMI based everything.

  • Ron, interesting thoughts but I disagree. There are those two paradigms but you have totally ignored the most important paradigm abuse.
    As a LISW with twenty years of social work in areas of children and adults and families and trauma of all kinds, and in the MH system inside and outside and with experiences with the old state institution system. There are places field students were NOT ALLOWED to go into I know medical malpractice and abuse when I see it, even if I was zonked out of my mind and dealing with life trauma not of my own making.
    I was severely traumatized by the so called treatment from friends taking it into their own hands you need a shrink and calling on my mother who was dealing with my terminally ill only sister and her three small children ect ect ect and saying YOU NEED MEDICATION never once allowing me the gift of oh she ‘s got her hands full but I trust her to ask for help if she needs it. And I never would have chosen a public park system to confront a person dealing with nonlocus of control events. A letter if you really felt the need to become involved would have been hah! the sane thing to do. And then calling my mother with names and phone numbers of shrinks was just the beginning of my years of total disaster.
    And then to have the majority of the so called professionals not to treat that trauma or ask about other non locus of control life events borders on cruel and unusual punishment or I would even venture to say torture.
    Whether a survivor self identifies with recovery or with the idea of a pride movement – whatever works to get you through life. And I would not expect folks to be in one Camp or the other or some may have arms and legs in different streams, again whatever works.
    Restorative Justice. And if one knows anything about it – not perfect and one can never take back the disaster years but a formal apology, a clearing of the diagnosis or diagnoses would be a kind of benchmark to begin with.
    I also suggest you read about anti- facits and Marxist’s in Vichy France who were at risk of internment or prison. Some never recovered.And when I was in an Unit it was more internment than anything else. Some prison systems the ones that are not in the south or made for abuse actually have kitchens, and libraries, and outside time ie The Shawshank Redemption. Club Fed as well.
    This is not the time for thought experiments in paradigms but thanks for your effort. Another time maybe?

  • Michael, I appreciate your writing but ah not quite what I have been hoping for from professionals.
    You and the others choose to stay in the system and I don’t know if you shared your own experience with altered states or not. My guess is you did not? Not clear and as the system was getting more restrictive and more Pharma based what did you do? When folks reported abuse did you do anything to change the system or really could you?
    Did you contact the county or state officials? Did you ever try to find peers that really were like you in past experience?
    My sense of things before my forced time in system was folks who divulged their past were stigmatized not maybe in from but from behind.
    I am looking to move and going through stuff. I am going to share a letter I found- an apology from a high school friend. Unasked for but decent.
    This is 15 year old male teen who lived in a blue collar neighborhood, father dead and life not that easy. I was more upscale but very learning disabled and on the fringe of life- part but not parcel.
    This is the next step.
    I know I’ve been a real pain in the…..neck. And I know I have done some stupid things. All I can say is that I’m really sorry. I hope you will forgive me and still think of me as your friend.
    4 sentences. It does not take much.
    We have lost the art of this and fear rules the day in terms of any type of restorative justice. Responsibility even when ah 39% or 89% not my fault.
    Georgetown University is muddied and muddy but it’s out there and the river is running through it’s slave ownership history.
    My one relative ran a part of a medical research tri- part community for ALL involved. She dealt with families and she was bowled over by their desperation to find ANYTHING that would help. She was amazed with the patients. She liked and admired some of the professional staff, others not so much. But she gave all equal footing.
    This is what we survivors need equal footing to be heard and the freedom not to live in fear so that we can speak.

  • LS yes I agree wholeheartedly.
    But PD is where she is and ah we as me , myself, all are dealing with being on a sometimes enforced trauma journey, sometimes a it seemed a good idea at the time journey and the rage of accepting what has happened to us in loss is a bumpy road of traveling. Sometimes we get pebbles or stones, sometimes an oasis of support here and other places. Dialogue especially using this online type of tool is not easy. We do not have eye contact , we do not have an implicit learned 5 second delay. I think the old idea of Tabla Rasa holds here. Sometimes , we write from the emotion in the forefront of our souls with no holds barred and that can be a good or it can be hurtful or mean. I certainly have done it and I apologize. I am trying hard to incorporate into my cognition a five second or maybe two minute warning posting.
    But since we are witnesses to or survivors of or experiencing several different levels of trauma – it just not easy but Alex and others have shown a light down a path we all most design for ourselves. Disagreements are part of life and learning how to handle them in kindness an Art.

  • Ann , your story and your mother’s was hard to read but glad you wrote it and shared.
    Medicine really ignores the female and I really wonder what really is going on in female bodies. I also wonder about trauma and stress in our bodies and in pregnancy.
    I would suggest you look into your parent’s family histories to see if that played a role in both how your father handled things and how your mother felt about pregnancy.
    There are so many silences in the female world about this area and the medical world has greatly illserved families by their chemical interventions.

  • This was interesting and a worthwhile read especially about the Maori.
    On the discussion of childhood and parenting- sometimes the issues were difficult with I would guess integenerstional trauma which was discussed briefly and no good systemic way of helpful interventions. I am thinking of my mother’s friend who had a very rambunctious child. As she was talking on the phone she would describe what was going on/ he’s hanging from the chandelier now, he’s ……… I also experienced this with a friend of my own age different behavior but what to do?
    I am not sure if this child of my mother’s friend was the same one who on his own went to explore an empty house without telling anyone and was found dead three days later from a fall in the house.
    The trust that folks put in the helping professions and systems has been broken in small and large ways. Marian Wright Elderman ‘s Children Defense Fund idea should be broadened to all our communities and at all levels of society. Rambunctiousness can be a sign of future greatness and we all deserve to have our own owners get supported and when needed helped out.

  • Don , glad to hear your voice. I am very leery of any social media these days. But if you feel it works for you, great.
    PD. Your thoughts are important but I am going to say one needs to merge with other causes that touch on your own. Politics can make strange bedfellows and one most always be aware of what is liable to happen underneath the covers.
    In our country, we now have children and or families held and experiencing much of what we survivors have experienced in a similar but different realm.
    If we all in our various viewpoints consolidated around helping these people out it would be a win / win situation. No politician or founder or professional can understand their experiences – but we can. If we help then we can gain legitimacy for or own past histories. And then our voices cannot but helped but to be acknowledged.
    And fighting for another cause sometimes is just less triggering and can energize instead pull one down in the crap.
    I think PD this is what happened in the femanist beginnings. They fought against the instituting of slavery and then realized oh there are other forms of slavery as well. But the anti slavery campaign gave females a field to begin to gain creedence.
    And we are still fighting for equality for females and other gender issues, and on and on for racism and environmental issues and there is an infinite number I fear at times. But something to focus on and get out of one’s own pain. But maybe a way forward with a possibility of real change and more than just small pats on the head and a treat or two.
    And maybe pick a cause any cause and walk into it and or then at a good time – I know this because I have experienced being held without freedom to leave and then maybe the fruit will be ripe to be picked.

  • Robert, what can I say here?
    You are spouting old stuff here behind the curtain of an accomplished Social Work career.
    You knew when you entered Social Work, it would not be what administration level you would achieve but how high could you manage playing the political game. You were male and you were white. You did well.
    Most folks here are unaware that Social Work originated with mostly white rich women but not all, not all. Emma Lazurus of the Statue of Liberty fame was one I would guess – who just began working in the tenements. Jane Addams and others pushed to get it recognized as a real profession. And then 1960’s?the administration role went almost all male. There were some females in my time but the stats screwed male.
    I think in the 1930’s and later some of the male social workers left for other professions, in the legal and medical realms. For awhile, in my era, there were JD/MSW degrees but that would create problems maybe?
    What I suspect you know and what you write here I would guess are two different things- the washed laundry hanging outside or the dirty laundry hidden in the attic with the dead skeletons.
    These are the topics I would hope we could get from you if you decide to climb down and unzipp the curtain and pull out the hidden laundry and finally get it washed and bury the dead with all due dignity and respect.
    1) Sex abuse of clients in all the associated agencies. This happened with the entire spectrum off staff. Not all agencies, and not all staff who worked in any agency. It is still a verboten topic but it is there and it is time for it to come out.
    And yes, one never knew who, what, when, where, and how until one stumbled upon it by hook or by crook but it is and was an issue.
    2) Impaired professionals. Whether through trauma- primary, secondary, or tertiary experiences it is there and so often not treated fairly.
    Substance abuse issues. How to handle and what really are the stats here?
    3) How to handle abuse and neglect by unliscenced staff members in institutions or agencies, or group homes for those who are deemed through age or disability as unable to care for oneself?
    And again, trauma plays a very large role here. Any caretaking can cause burnout or I would say secondary or tertiary trauma and how staff to the janitor and cooks are treated portends how the clients are treated. Abuse and neglect can be very much top down problems.
    4) Inability for the Social Work profession and perhaps others to own their own life traumas and own life recovery episodes. Why does one go into Social Work and in particular areas- we all have narratives that link us to our own or other life stories. Let’s tell them and not hide them. My best guess is that one of my respected Social Workers of all , worked with traumatized mothers for a reason- there was a need in her or a need in me that created a desire and yes sometimes a good deed or two because of that narrative.
    5) Use of Peers and Volunteers in agencies. This maybe probably should not be combined but both populations seem to have been poorly used at times. Again the concept of Famy Therapy or Organizational Theory or the old proverb about the fish head rotting first. Maybe not you since you have written here but I don’t know your state or locale so maybe there still is some sort of honor code in the so called Mental Health professions.

    6) In my times in the system as a person supposedly in need – I was pushed in and did not walk into it because so called friends were concerned and had no idea I was actively getting support for the traumas in my life but they took it upon themselves not only to intervene in my own agency but to intervene in my husband’s and mother’s.
    They also had no idea of my professional knowledge base and that I would never ever do to a client or human being what they did to me.
    And the worst part was I sustained serious trauma from their interventions and actions and the treatment was just as damaging or worse. I found out often in life if something happened to me I am usually not alone
    7) And my guess is trauma is not the end all or entire issue. There are so many possibilities in our world for people to enter altered states.
    So in light of all this, I request you and others in positions of power to wade in the wasters and get off the boats you all are riding.
    Create a paragraph of “ I have stains on my hands ect…
    Create bridges instead of walls.
    Create truth not more baggage.
    And please read RFK’s address to the folks on the night of MLK Jr’s death.
    There were no acts of violence in that city, the only city in the nation not to be affected by traumatic violence.
    It can be accomplished. You all have st least one example.Make it so.

  • It was an interesting part of your memoir to read, thanks Julie.
    They used to be aware and talk about Lithium Toxicity but I haven’t heard folks use this phrase.
    I experienced it – confusion, loose bowels, and instead of being medically treated was placed in seclusion and then transferred to the highly monitored back unit where aides were paid to chart our movements.
    It wasn’t until I obtained my records that I saw Lithium Toxity written over another diagnosis and the plan was for nursing home placement. An aide mentioned it to me.
    This hospital was part of the multinational alaphabet soup corporation that has taken over many of the orginislly small psychiatric institutions. Most of my professional colleagues left after they saw what was happening.
    You should write a Manuel for folks and for their families.
    The whole pediatric bipolar stuff in my mind is or borders on child abuse or neglect. I never thought I would ever have to say that. It just doesn’t make any sense except for profit.
    And again- where are the professional vpiices here?
    We still are in echo chamber land.

  • And Ann where is your voice here?
    This thread is symbolic of one of the many issues we all as a world are dealing with.
    In the light of all of the blogs of abuse and medical malpractice there still is no professional voice of apology. And there’s the rub isn’t it? In our litegeous society this could prove problematic but since Hugh and Ann are in their senior years maybe not so much?
    When they were young there was Heinz Kohut a WWII refugee who came to the states and developed Self Psychology – the best to come out was therapy as bike riding. It was quickly quashed.
    The onus of working with insurance companies and yes I did as well is still part and parcel of the dialogue that has not been addressed. Adult Adjustment Disorder but they would only make payments for 10 visits or so and thus up the annuity to a different label with more payments.
    The other route to go was private pay but two issues – elitist and what about abuse and neglect issues? Very dicey!
    And what about Social Justice?
    Again white therapists talking about what seems fairly well off clients.
    If you are both going to own nonauthartarianism then be real and honest and take full responsibility.
    And where are the comments from Ann and Hugh and others on the psych survivors’s blogs?
    Again rampant discrimination.
    There is nothing wrong with admitting error or mistakes from either ignorance or really bad idea.
    Mistakes are how humans learn.
    Unfortunately, we have lost the ability to truth for the base needs of greed and profit. And we all are paying the price.

  • The academic jargon and kowtowing to the academic world creates walls to those in mh systems, those survivors of said systems, and the general folks on the street.
    They need to honor and boldly hold the voice of the survivors in their circle or it will all be lost. All together or not.
    They also before doing this need to recognize, accept ,hear the damages inflicted on those who sought help or were forced or prodded to “seek help.”
    One cannot change until the elements of abuse and neglect and violations are acknowledged and amends made.
    One way to look at the system is a ritual gone rotten. This takes on the whole history of caring for others.
    “ It takes a ritual to repair a failed ritual. It also takes a person directly responsible for the failure to right the wrong. Acknowledgement of error is not error…….”
    Power, Healing, and Community
    Malidoma Patrice Some

  • Andrea Dworkin’s femanist writings on abuse and rape fit well into the anti- psychiatry movement. Women were not believed. All Our Trials by Emily L. Thurman takes onacurrent and broader view on female incarceration.
    Violence against any human. We see this with the weapons industry and other corrupt entities with a full out repression of truth and facts.
    There actually is a psychiatrist that sees racism and inequality as factors writing out of Vanderbilt. Go figure.
    We have to deal with crime victims, we have to deal with the human tragicomedy of life in war, and poverty and history so there will ALWAYS be that.
    But the systems as it is now and has been – no.
    There needs to be a quashing of DSM and the creation of a process of being unlabeled. Even with HIPPA – if you give a medical professional a list of meds you are on – dead in the water.
    SSD status – red flag and oh my if the police come to your house.
    Also the stoppage of mental health checks by safety forces. There are ways and there are ways to talk about fears of a person in crisis. And then the ER portal. Both present options are no win situations and not help.

  • I was not able to read the blog. As a retired LISW and a psychiatric survivor I am put off by one therapist talking with another. This is another co option of psych survivors and other folk’s personal narratives for mental health professionals fame and profit or publishing rights. At least this is how I have come to view the books and ect.
    It’s a sticky wicket and I think we need dialogue.
    The other issue is we psych survivors have no diagnostic label expungement process as our fellow citizens do with legal crime past labels.
    If we could dialogue as in a round table yes.

  • PacificDawn, wow I like your comments but sometimes disagree. Your bringing up of the feminist perspective is right on target. Yes but or maybe and so……
    Andrea Dworkun seems to fit in here as well as Andre Lorde and Kate Millet and somehow the kids of Parkland especially the young female who said so beautifully “ I call BS.”
    Although Andrea was a feminist she also acknowledge – hey I like those male writers- to her great loss. She lost out on the support of other feminists because she deigned to say yeah Joyce was a good writer.
    Same in the movements here. Sometimes folks on the so called other side have good thoughts.
    One needs to realize in Nazi Germany there were folks who tried to take down Hitler. And there was Schindler and Walkenberg and Corrie Ten Boom. And oh Kathe Kollowitz.
    Name a time, place, and group and yes even as Nero fiddled I would bet my life there were some folks who said this is f’d and tried to do what they could. Emphasis on tried and what they could do.
    Keep on posting! And keep on, on the journey. Bilbo Baghins poem-/ The Road Goes On and Tolkien WWI vet all his brigade simply totally disappeared fighting in the trenches. He got lucky getting sick and evacuation. Orcs are Trauma based.

  • This as been a very interesting thread to read. The historical aspect of the history of survivors is so important. It needs an almost horizontal graphic timeline to show when and where what happened over the last say 60 years.
    I was not surprised about the article not being perfect. It was what I expected under the circumstances.
    The artistic community is so invested in the use of the system for support.
    One forgets that T. S. Eliot and others broke down and then recovered and lived their lives. Not sure of the extant of involvement he had but especially since his first wife had terrible issues but he had his own and managed.
    Almost every artist creates from seeds or a seed of trauma. And how to deal with trauma?
    Do we a witness to hear our story?
    Do we need a tool box?
    Since trauma has a human bodily component what is it is not possible?
    And do witnesses to folks in trauma need support as well?
    Dialogue though slow and imperfect is the only way to go and I think one of the better ways if we are starting to not think and just feel to have tools to use so that we can opt out and then rejoin the dialogue.
    And yes emotions are part and parcel of being human. We as a species have never figured out fantastic ways of coping with all of them and if we do find a tool or two damn the powers that be snatch them up and hide them or worst of all use the tools for their own nefarious forces.
    I would like to see side by side work.
    So each group can do their best to be heard and deciminate the most powerful needed to be heard information.

  • I really appreciate the process of journey you went through , Sandy.
    There should be some sort of ethical framework for journalists in how to write on disability issues and a thorough and solid understanding taught in every journalism and or creative writing school on the whole world of disibties and civil rights, and ADA, and a deep understanding of the world history.
    At one time, my local paper had a column about disability and I think she had her own story with the disability world which if one is truthful we all have.
    The word skizophrenic is a firework word. There is so little understanding and so much FEAR.
    There needs to be a dialogue and folks journalists, politicians, clergy, neighbors, relatives need to admit and own up to the fear.
    Yeah as in Alex’s story the journalist should have admitted to being afraid to talk to him instead of acting out his fear and dropping the opportunity to do good journalism.
    It would help to have disabled journalists of all ilks in every journalistic medium or for them to acknowledge it.
    Also if writers or journalists use people’sstories and profit off them there needs to be a form of reimbursement to the individual folks and one also has to acknowledge having one’s story come out can have both positive and negative effects and what to do about the negative effects?
    I would like to read about you and your uncle and the relationship. The uncomfortable parts and the comfortable parts.
    And the dx part which has done such great damage that needs to be addressed.
    And trauma and how we as as a world and society deal with all of its multifaceted layers.
    How did and why did your uncle get labeled? And what was the real story ?

  • Julie, I was glad to see your writing posted and really liked it and knowing your comments helped put a lot in context for me.
    Since I was in the profession and still are around folks who have different beliefs I have had to agree to disagree but your account is helpful for others to read in that other framework.
    The historical account of the changes in treatment yes! Some would say prison is still prison with pianos but at least there was an outlet if nothing else.
    I really liked your kudos to your parents. I still remember my parents picking me up at the horrorific day treatment program and wanting just to cry because the whole situation was so f’d up and I couldn’t figure a way out.
    And it is like an itch one wants to keep scratching there has to be SOMETHING and many times there just isn’t.
    I went to grad school on the east coast and literally it was my therapist says this my therapist says that.And I knew folks who were in until their therapist died.
    Again whatever works for folks but that requires money and hours and hours and I tried but so much focus on self.
    As an LISW, I told folks my job is to put myself out of business.And they were in the navigator ‘s seat and I was there for support and advice when really really stuck.
    No therapist I saw ever used those words or ideas with me. No one.
    The portrayal of NAMI. For many, it’s the only support out there.
    Your story is one facet of a very large prism.

  • Hi Cindi, thanks for writing this. Marci’s story is hard for me on several levels. So I will try to support in a way that is safe for me.
    I would suggest trying to find a MH professional who is very well acquintated with Selma Frauberg’s University of Michigan parenting work with mothers. Old but I know in the 1980’s there was an effort to get a directory by U of M with all the programs using her work. For those who don’t know she figured out parents engage with children via their own trauma and then problems happen so trauma based. Not sure if in this day and age any exist but having that background and then having a background that acknowledges the negative side effects that would cause an altered state in a mother – I wish there could be that professional. That perspective is key. In the program I worked in- meds were rarely used. She needs a professional that knows both inside and out.
    As a former person in system I would suggest Marci pick her battles with the unit staff. They carry the keys. And no matter how one feels about them and how they act they still carry the keys.
    It sounds like she has fallen into a viscous battle and there ain’t no way she is going to win by keeping up the fight.
    Been there, done that.
    Make the staff your friend. Give complements. And it ain’t easy and phew but it seems to be the only way out of her problem.
    One almost has to think of it as a strategy in and of itself. She can think whatever she wants in her head but keep it in her head.
    Folks in internment camps, concentration camps, prisons, all created coping strategies for living without any power and control.
    It can be done.
    My best guess is that she is a trigger for staff. Any parent has stories of almost sand what ifs and then knowing what I know or guess about staff they might be on the same chemicals she was on and wow internal emotional conflict.
    Another legal strategy is maybe civil right or something in that if staff is compromised how can they fairly treat a patient? Just a thought.
    Please let her know she is not alone and has support.

  • Stephan,yes I understand so well. And we who live in layers of Venn diagram life are burdened by what we knew and what we now know.
    I still would say there are always good folks but how, what , when, where, are always random occurrences. I have stories from the older generation of helpers like yours and myself though different paradigms but the sorrow remains the same.
    Barbara Kingsolver’s words from” Poisonwood Bible” are so helpful forgive yourself. Those of us that cared no matter how imperfect did things with what we thought was the best we could do. We are all time bound and knowledge bound.
    This is why I try to walk in kindness even with my anger because one day a person might see the light.
    When acts are done in nefarious and hurtful ways – a whole different story. And any – any institution not only have their weakness but there evils.
    The one thing my local paper once did right was to publish an anonymous op/ed from a doc trying to do amends.
    All professionals need this type of outlet.
    Sometimes, I would like to contact folks but I don’t know.
    Again having places of refuge or repair of trauma could do a wall of amends for folks.
    We could do so much- my greatest frustration.

  • When C Henry Kempe a German Post WWII immigrant “ discovered” the medical diagnosis of child abuse I do not think he ever imagined the system we have today.
    One needs to do a thorough and deep deep dive into the entire history of childhood and human development. The concept of children and wives as chattel. The institution of slavery of all kinds, throughout the world past and present.
    There were always moments of wokeness but always battered down and since the early eighties any advancement seems to have been drowned.
    I think the word genocide in terms of child welfare is not too harsh.
    And this is Child Welfare in all strata of American society. Being born in the 1 % is no guarantee of not being exposed to sexual abuse or other forms of child abuse as in neglect.
    One of the things that bothered me both as a mother and helping professional is the fact that child counselors are not required to ask permission to see a child in school. The carte blanche aspect is not best practice. There needs to be a total reworking of how to help children who are or have been in trauma life situations- a new and ethical paradigm.

  • Tim, good efffort but you are a babe in the woods.
    Why were you not taught of self advocacy in classeork? Professionals wonder why there are walls instead of bridges at times here on this site and in real life and part is the professionals miseducation and ignorance – not their fault but easy targets for our anger.
    The lack of dialogue commentary and the lack of here I am I want to help makes the walls much stronger than not. Also the admission I have been tbrough stuff. One doesn’t have to vomit but it helps to build trust and compassion the two building machines that break down walls.
    And self advocacy – failures and fear here. Also memoirs or telling your story to have used by someone else for their own profit- dicey stuff and I am unsure about all of that and my best guess – table it until other things happen.
    Self Advocacy also means self labeling.
    I was at a library and there was a big display on rape. Okay good to highlight but there are all sorts of rape with all genders and this was one gender based with only one source of help and it has the word rape in the agencies name.
    So like Tim here, babes in the woods.
    Survivors need to be at the table just like the idea behind the Paris Peace Talks.
    Until that happens self advocacy is compromised.
    The other issue is the folks behind the curtains the founders of all types and tropes. Until and when their voices are only part and parcel we will still be othered and marginalized even if we have the knowledge base to help change things in a better direction.
    One of my relatives had a brilliant idea for donations. They weren’t entirely awoke but their idea was to ask the agency what was really needed. Of course in a perfect world the task force of agency participants would be the go to voice to be heard. Someday.

  • I agree and it is one layer of many. Lots of professions hide the information, just like sexual abuse. A kind of global Catch 22 moment for all of us.
    Pat Conroyb wrote about the issues in military families so well and in himself contained the damage of trauma unresolved, though he tried hard to overcome all of it.
    I go back to the need for Trauma Centers and what hadn’t been discussed in depth prevention.
    The concept of working hard for the future in all areas of life, environmental, nutrition, ism reduction in all areas, education and human interactions.
    Just a full throttle beginning action would begin to alleviate the need for why bother with life assessment.
    What enraged me, is not that we don’t have the capacity or wealth it is the greed, selfishness, and willful ignorance of the people who literally could change the world but don’t and stand by worried about nonessentials while all of us are barely making it. In terms of epigenetics, we, if we survive, are creating more inter generational trauma in layers of past and current historical trauma.
    Anything that can change folks perceptions is great. With Laura’s piece I had no great expectations so was very pleased they didn’t pull “ A BeautifulmMind “ enforced lie.

  • I think John that with the forum we have here- it is very difficult to go into your life as it is for you now. You are reaching out here and seem to have some very spot on thinking with our American history. You also seem to be in distress and I and probably others can’t help you with all of it.
    I know when I was literally lost in anxiety due to trauma and who knows what else I had and still at times have a sense of not only all is not well but something is way off kilter.
    And most of us here would say duh but that is our world our individual lives are so unique. And we process our lives especially after trauma in different ways. I do not have a good sense of your life now just feel that every day is hard.
    When I was tangled in trauma old and new the best way to get myself through was the simple act of checking my body. Am I able to move my fingers and toes?
    Can I breathe? Can I move my knees and elbows?
    Can I scribble on a pad?
    CanI walk?
    Can I sit?
    We are unable to see your life as you live it but those are some simple things I did when things were really bad for me.
    My situation got better but is still hard.
    I just learned how to endure with life as it is. Nothing made sense, nothing seemed to get better.
    I am living a life option z. Not what I had hoped for in terms of life. Many of us and most humans are.
    One has to go second by second minute by minute. And if writing helps – go for it. I hope for better days for you.
    You are smart and perceptive and some of us share the same memories of the shift in the country. Dwelling on all that – I don’t know how helpful since the daddy’s are still ongoing. Again minute by minute. My latest thought there are only so many worms in a can of worms. They are of a limited quantity!
    Thinking very small and acting in small ways. Folks do this in psych units. If nothing else one learns to keep going though not the keep going one dreamt of but whatever works for the moments.

  • Hi there Johnchristine,
    Sounds like this spot really was traumatic for you. I am sorry that you have had such a very difficult time. It never should have happened and it is not fair.
    TD symptoms are awful. I developed Parkinsonism. Bad enough.
    And I have heard folks relate how their parents pathologized them and none of the professionals were able to see through the actual truth.
    Ohio used to have an Empowerment Coalition but no more. I have no idea what happened or why or where they are now. I think the website is still up.
    There are other places in the country to move to though even globally it seems things are hard.
    I found Tai Chi, yoga, walking, reiki, art, music helpful things to do in community or online.
    Start doing some research and check all things out there may be some help.
    Reading if you can, on the neuroleptic reading was difficult and my ability to read as I did has been compromised but hard to say because of feeling anxious or lingering affects of treatment.
    OMT in my old church community with the ladies guild there was a woman who for years ran what they called the sunshine commity- she would keep her ears to the ground and eyes above the horizon for anyone that might need a card to be sent for a variety of reasons.
    It was small and simple but when oneis in hardship even a little bit helps
    One of the hard things for me is to hear folks pain and what does MIA have responsibility for?
    We all are people of the Great Human Trauma and even if the nonidentified or professionals do not identify as such with those of us who do I bet my life they are part and parcel- either they are in denial or they for whatever reason are not able to admit to whatever.
    One human cannot go through ten years of life without experiencing trauma and trauma can be living the life of the idle rich different than poverty or abuse but one can have millions and without love really what can any human become?
    It would be nice someday to have some sort of way to cope with the pain of some of the articles.
    It seems folks are trying very hard but maybe some sunshine in a very small way might help.

  • I stand corrected – knew it just didn’t put it down.
    I still can’t go all out but I can enumerate and detail the abject awfulness of much of psychiatry.
    Until we come up with a way to handle trauma in a better way there is not much – unless you have lots of money to recover from rape, some types of military service, parenthood, substance abuse and there currently no systemic change agents on all the isms of present and past times. No restorative justice at the present time and with legal entities being so terribly prejudiced no way to sue for true and real medical malpractice.
    And yes, much of the so called left bought and drank the cool aid of medication thanks to those at the medical advertising hall of fame. Yes it’s real and what great humans and humanitarians. Dr Salk and Sabin are so proud of you all!
    And neuroadvertising- brilliant name and truth so there is that aspect as well.
    Lobsters starting cooking in tepid water – all of us.
    If neurologists had better personalities maybe they could do what Lee suggests. One really doesn’t need a MD degree just the educational background and awareness and the capacity to heal in the best sense of the word.

  • Some thoughts. Lee’s talking points on what entails an interview are spot on. As far as my experience has been as a professional and then so called patient after 2001 there were no trainings in any type of interviewing and much historical information was lost or quashed.

    My thoughts for all the professionals I saw where really? really ? you are trained professional? My developmentally disabled relative could do a better job in the area of compassion and narrative techniques.
    Alex’s take on attorney’s yes but I would extend that to any profession today the old adage a few bad apples is reversed there are a few good apples and when you are lucky to meet them you want st least I do- kiss the ground they walk on.
    Since I have myself in so many places and groups- a living Venn diagram – I thought of a new way of thinking about the anti stuff.
    Slavery- the abolitionists couldn’t just make it go away until the Emancipation Proclamation. It existed on a minute by minute basis. They couldn’t stop the separating of families, the abuses, and the inflection of trauma that some folks knew would take generations to resolve.
    And then when it did come – it continued though in a more concealed and more heinous? way with the Restoration and Jim Crow life.
    There are many ways to be a slave.
    So again I go to the fact that fespite my outrage- good for a igniting but never good as a life support system – there has to be some sort of contact.
    Maybe Rumi – Out there beyond the field of right and wrong I will meet you there.

  • Good questions!
    What is your source of knowledge of post party’s depression?
    Have you read any feminist, literary, anthropological, or global history as they relate to female sexuality?
    Have you read any writings of trauma?
    Do you know what happened to mothers in concentration camps, slave ships, on the forced marches of the First Nation Trails of Tears- not one but many?
    Have you studied with someone like Klauss and Kennel or their today type of researcher on attachment and mother/ infant bonding?
    Are you aware of Marisn Wright Elderman and The Children’s Defense Fund?
    And why no mention of the invisible infant of the man who you do ardently want to help?
    What is your religious background?
    What is your socio- economic background?
    Hav you traveled and visited any type of mother child programs outside of the United States.
    How exactly did you get on board?
    What was your path and who allowed you a seat?
    Do you have any reporting on the diversity compositions of your group?
    How many African American and or First zNation professionals? How about those from Asian backgrounds? What about gender diversity?
    Have you or your group had any intense training on ethics?
    Have you or your group aware of the history of public health and ethics?
    If you have had bioethical training- who what when and where and who provided the funding? Was it government funded or made through Big Pharma?
    Have you ever studied racism or inequality or environmental climatology?
    Have you read Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring and thought maybe she was touching on the tip of at least one iceberg?
    At least by writing this you may be waking up and may be able to actually think outside the box.
    Have you any female elders to consult with?
    In Thornton Wilder’s Theopolious North his protagonist had a circle of all types of human companions. They held him in good staid.
    There is an old adage
    If Momma ain’t happy nobody is happy in our global systems so many mothers are not happy and it is not their fault.
    Are you coregeous enough to see the light and see this a systemic failure of great proportions or will you be another voice that fades into the winds?

  • This really lost me Eric. If I were an up and coming helper I would be turned off and as a retired LISW with twenty years of post graduate experience in a variety of settings you lost me big time.
    I would urge you to buy or get at your local university library
    Anthony Stoer The Art of Psychtherapy
    Selma Fraiberg The Magic Years
    Bessel van der Klerk The Body Keeps the Score
    Also get the writings of survivors and do a thorough history of the history of psychotherapy. Bob’s books and others.
    There are massive amounts.
    Then instead of writing I would have you run not walk to either a homeless shelter, food pantry, group home, and spend time with folks – human to human – eye to eye- and listen and only talk for etiquette sake and to ask questions,
    Then maybe your local prison ministry for either the prisoners and or their families.
    Many great writers teach classes- you might want to research which regional literati teach prison classes and they could assist you in at least observing.
    Then maybe go to a Vet center and listen. Then maybe a nursing home.
    After 9/11 Mr Rogers had a discussion on its trauma for his audience. He quoted his mother saying when you need help go to the helpers.
    Sometimes the helpers YOU NEED are not in positions of power, sometimes they are the riff raff and woe to those of us who do not hear and honor their stories.
    I would be interested in hearing in your. next MIA blog about which folks who choose to learn from and your reactions and lessons learned in.., I had no idea!….. and not their stories you decided to incorporate.

  • Well Kelly better late to the table than not at all. I would say you were miseducated. There has been a phalanx and plethora of information on females that has been dumped, washed, trounced on ect.
    If Klaus and Kennel knew of this 60 hour treatment IV ( and I betcha no breastfeeding allowed or what would be the ramifications to the child? Present and or future?) they would be gobsmacked.
    Selma Fraiberg and the unknown list of indegnious midwives from all over the globe and human history would be gobsmacked as well.
    Penelope Leach and others and btw no male would stand for that type of treatment time and type if one were a CEO or CFO or Crime Syndicate Boss.
    Parkland community just suffered their second post massacre suicide. I am sure there have been others among our history of gun murders both small and large- we just are too broken to connect with the cans of worms that we are living through these days.
    And if we as a species are to survive it starts with the concept of pregnancy and beyond and what may be seen as sexist but I will put it out here. How male infants and children are raised.
    How one is raised if one is seen by parents, or peers, or educators, as other.
    Trauma and it’s worlds and human development we need not only to see the arc of history but the arch of justice and mercy that needs to be an inherent essential part of any and all human communities.
    Glad you saw the light about treatment.
    We need a chorus.

  • Thanks Sera and all.
    These are my thoughts and experiences in my locale.
    We have a very strong medical research and NAMI presence though in some places peers ran some of the MH Centers and once upon a time we had a regional peer coalition.
    What has happened would be a news story that would be picked up by multiple media outlets about someone in a crisis with an altered mental status with police and red lights flashing and the statement”we hope they get the treatment they need.”
    The deaths of urban folks in similar situations. would not be highlighted.
    But a year later, just in time for a NAMI event there would be a “I have found the light! news story about the wonders of medication.
    It would be the so called party line.
    There would be no allowance what was happening to cause a crisis or discussion of how professionals actually treat trauma, or the varigities of a person with high level of sensitivities, or what actually does constitute a religious and or spiritual experience, and most lacking of all the concept of total recovery and how that concept has been totally quashed by the systems involved.
    When given an actual pulpit it becomes recovery porn and not the beginning of an in-depth investigation of the folks behind the curtain who have manipulated the perspectives of so much of society.
    And because of those folks behind the curtain manipulations other folks have no idea of their presence and are taken in.
    When the snake oil salesmen are the only help in town one is exploited by trying to help oneself or others with his help because it’s the only show in town. One can’t be helped with trauma or whatever systemic ills if even the mental and verbal constructs are not allowed to see the light of day.
    How to remove the curtains?
    And this point , I would be happy for truth in advertising or lending type of legal recourses.

  • There is also brain tumors both benign and malignant mistaken for so called “ mental health behavioral conditions.”
    My one LISW friend had a lose relative who had mixed up days and nights and function completely sparely from the partner and family. An expert from a leading university was consulted and sorry no help available. It was only after a happenstance medical emergency that involved a brain MRI that the benign tumor was discovered. Fifteen years of loss of life and this family had many members in the medical professions.
    A patient on the unit I worked was considered “ borderline” because of chronic complaints of headaches then after a ER visit with nonstop vomiting ah! malignant brain tumor was discovered.
    And then there was the Ohd/ MD student working in rotation who was sent to Psychiatry for issues because his concerns about his heart – “ all in his head” – he dropped down in the psych unit floor unconscious no med cart available because psych unit – do they really need one? Thorastic surgeons were seen by Socisl Service Worker to be laughing at a Code Blue called on the psyh unit floor.
    It was the founder of the Burn zI it who ran down four or so flights of stairs who responded to the Code and opened up – literally the student’s chest to do open heart massage but it was too late the oxygen depravation had already caused too much damage.
    I had heard the burn unit surgeon speak at a college class- trauma – all the burn unit folks were facing trauma. One had to be very brave to work within the burn unit. Hard, hard treatment and life long disfiguration and adjustment to life before and life after.
    Later on after my psych unit experiences , I learned my father had mentored the burn unit surgeon.
    To think that there were actual physicians who went above and beyond medical duty and trained others into the realm of not only do no harm but do whatever you can when you can and to hold onto the memories of how I was treated, especially now this month when zI was told by an aide the plan was for me to go into a nursing home and then later to find upon reading my medical records there was Lithium Toxity and Iliterallt could have died but no told me.
    I live with the memories of that and other hospitalizations and the FEAR – ANY DAY the police could AGAIN come knocking and the fear I could not as The Hets in West Side Stiry sing to each other “ Kerp Cool, man Jero Cool.
    I have no gang. Silence in the family and no talk of anything but pretend. Life is Winderful. No Emotions- nada nada burn soul killing nada.
    And other places? Canada, East Coast, Red State,Blue State, Oz. Nada.
    I exist in the whispers of perhaps better days. I cannot believe better will ever come.
    The twenty years of fairly stellar post grad SW is constantly erased by the female staff member who called me the bipolar bitch or the eyes of the nurse who licked me in seclusion.
    As. acimmitted pacifist I fight each day not to let Hate overwhelm me but if nothing my MH experience even with counselors who did no basically no harm and just shot the breeze with no treatment I have learned to hate all of them and especially myself for ALLIWING myself to be taken in.
    I trust no one because will you call the cops on me?
    Woody Guthrie – the BEOMEd psych residents who supposedly did a MH assessment and came from somewhere in the patriarchal Middle East had no idea of who he was. A Trump tenant and great American folksinger.
    Stupid stupid and more stupid.

  • We are talking here of many things – everyone area vitally important DSM abolishment, the human body and its synergy with the evionment, trauma and how the human body reacts in all its various systemic and mircrobiological ways, the professional medical establishment- including others.
    I would like to see a Timeline pre and post Industrial Age.
    This would help with focusing on public health issues that can lead or have led to psychiatric intervention.
    Pre industrial worlds didnot require literacy, many folks lived their entire lives in one place and human environmental interactions were less negative as they are now.
    The research presented so often is not that examplary. It was one of the reasons in the mid 1980’s I just stopped reading any academic journals between the topics and shoddy standards it was literally a waste of time. This of course led to Big Parma sales rep interventions. How very lucky for Big Pharma to have leading academic journals start losing its way. And every time a solid piece actually emerged, it was quashed.
    That in and of itself would be another interesting timeline graph.
    BTW anyone familiar with diabetes knows when a person is hyper or hypoglycemic behavior changes. It has been known for police to arrest a diabetic in actual medical crisis for drunken driving.
    We need to raze the Medical and Science houses to their foundations and start over.Keep any solid beams and throw out all the rotten wood and bent rusty nails.

  • Thanks and this was a perceptive overview.
    I, of course, have some thoughts from my own perspective on several levels.
    Children are not just affected by family and economics / it is the world as it is for them and us.
    The Social Work role is diffuse who are you advocating for? Both parents and children need their own advocates.
    School counselors in my locale could see students without parental permissions.
    I have and had concerns with this.
    PTA- this is an issue and the Social Service/ Psychology fields have staid out of it to the determinant of the school community at times.
    So much depends on who is who and where is where.
    Title I in the US had Social Work and Parent Councils attached to it at one time but Federal funding became an issue.
    Open Air Schools pre WWI in the US did cater to thq health and family situations with the idea of TB prevention.1

  • I am commenting here just for the heck of it.
    The idea of keeping folks down and dependent- in the DD field parents were also involved but I never got the icky affect I felt in some of the NAMI contacts I had.
    Folks wanted and where pleased with their independence.
    Getting a job was a good thing. Again the monetary factor and DD is easily identifiable because it’s real and kids are a good PR for levy’s.
    In fact, the DD system went bad in the opposite direction. One could not stay at the county workshop – costs money! One had to progress to private employment whether that was in the best interest of the human being involved. Workshops also had a devoted rec staff and off time activities.
    Voc rehab for those with MH issues in my locale closed down or streamlined .
    There were groups of physically challenged folks who protested and eventually got public transportation. It was a hard fought gain.
    When humans make other folks uncomfortable because of their distress and the raison d’entre is unknown or very complex and with our fear based society the control freaks can jump right in.

  • These called study is comparing apples to oranges. One cannot hope to research schools when Western European and American education are so staggeringly different. Different year schedule, different history, different inequality factors, different environmental factors. Mozart’s grandfather lived in “ public housing” in Germany and as I recall, it was still a solid well built apartment complex. Not do for those living in some HUD housing today in the States.
    I worked in schools and the fear , stress, curriculum issues, home, life, the isms that kids are so aware of were there and that was before school shootings became a regular part of the scenery. Again not do for Western Europe or any other global school system.
    And the research should not be on problems but how kids survive and find ways to survive the lives we have given them. So many are lost through no fault of their own.

  • Thanks for this. One view and still so many more to have highlighted.
    There really should be a White House Conference on Trauma along with Congressional Hearings and possibly a new department that would work on an interdepartmental level providing education to all the powers and others that be. Perhaps a type of “ white” or maybe “ rainbow” paper that would cut to the basics so that the information would be easily accessible to all.
    And also s long as we are still the subject of the month club maybe a trauma month.

  • Bruce, you certainly get your point across for our current times but I have a few thoughts for further expansion and thinking.
    The other side of this is Aesculypian Authority which dates back before Hippocrates in the time of healing temples with rites and rituals.
    Siegler and Osmond in their book of the same title write on this.
    At one time medicine was considered both an art and science and there was a subset subtle community contract Icede power to you to help me heal.
    Emphasis on the I here. This was the so called patient allowing for a certain limited transfer of power.
    What you describe is the complete overtaking of all power and control and intertwined bad care, treatment, and so called chemical help in many areas of modern day medicine so untruths for pure profit. The contract be damned.
    Interestingly the Rod of Aesculpian and the Cadeuceus are two intirely different symbols now used interchangeably since WWI due to human error.
    That no one in the realm of the powers that be has never even deigned to figure this is beyond my ken but makes so much sense to the question of now. Silly docs!
    Coming from a medical family and then working at a teaching hospital I could feel the difference and painfully see the difference between generations. Not at all – all the time but the trend of power and control and willful ignorance of much was apparent.
    And to be fair, medical education play a large role in this
    During WW II certain magnet schools were used to pipeline docs to war. Streamlined classes and new courses and then the war ended and nothing but the vets themselves were left if any wisdom gained.
    I grew up with this doc was a POW in Japan – he came back changed- this doc was Polish but was going to med school in England and joined the RAF, many had seen much trauma then there were the Korean War vets, and Vietnam Vets.
    There was a stream of wisdom gained through trauma – some not all.
    What I observed as an employee and then as a patient for so called MH treatment was what you described.
    But many interns and residents were coming from privilege and the path to medical school seemed set on what neighborhood you entered kindergarten.
    It was like at a family wake an extended family friend was asking me well
    what do you say? And I was like been doing this for decades and yeah it ain’t easy but I worked this out by myself at ten. And maybe family cut offs- total non exposure to trauma- both could be true.
    I don’t know how this evolved in its entirety but change cane and it was bad. May be cog in the wheel and kick the next one in line and Last is the patient and the most feared is the MH patient. Allowable stigma- free ride.
    And those that come in – some of the best never even tried because wrong neighborhood.
    Not to say Trauma is a good thing. Ask any person whose parent or parents endured trauma and even the ones who overcame not easy but it can be used for wisdom.
    I think wise medical treatment professionals are few and far between.
    Also I’d thry are- they too are trapped in the system that is.
    BTW Pharma sales rep massaged the docs giving them treats making them blind and beholden. Great, great sales strategy.

  • Lawerence or Larry? My reaction is different because I lived in the edges of white suburban privilege. This is the population that fits your writing – other folks a whole and completely different story but INTERSECTIONALITY the threads are there sometimes hidden by life sometimes deliberately hidden with harm to ALL.
    Females- mother’s are targeted by Pharma the ads 60% female patients and oh so suburban. Literature – advertising from big and small medical clinics.
    When I had my non professional intervention in was two white suburban mothers. A friend had earlier said she had started taking so called medicine so the hole in the dike.
    Also females were beginning to see issues – you really can’t have it all and if you do there is a huge price despite what it looks like from the outside. Trauma and pill popping – Valium was called mother’s little helper.
    If you talk to old 12 steppers no drugs but they had so many using them and being given them from docs and rehab centers most just gave up and went on biting their tongue.
    Some locals have a plethora of12 step groups of all kinds and there were others groups for awhile but funding for groups took a big hit and trauma and its subsequent issues and again – the magic of chemistry- Little did we know it was all a con.
    There there is the pain issue and sports and sex abuse. I could go on.
    Meanwhile in the urban areas hard times even more so. Not one job but three. No work time always on call. More guns, more anger, more police doing really harmful stuff.
    And the politicians going on their merry way because well – good health right No on call surprises, job networking, book deals. A cafeteria and gym – Congress – not sure about state capitols.
    This is a mosaic of an octupos so I am thinking in some ways better not get angry at the person carrying ONE PIECE of this multi- dimensional Greek tragedy.
    And I know triggers. I know too well.
    Ah decorum. How your mother if she wasn’t too traumatized by life would want her adult child to act and if you didn’t have one a godmother or any elderly person one could respect.
    And yes too the holder of the mosaic piece needs to have that same since only more so. The acknowledgement that folks have been harmed and the ability to if not actually hold hands to do it verbal soul to soul – we instead of me sitting in the high elevation of slsohbet soup.
    Sorry sometimes I just can’t stay silent.

  • Rachel777
    There were anti drug docs but they kept with the status quote because NO ONE knew how to stop them once they were taken as a regime.
    Behind closed doors one of the docs challenged the staff to take a Haldo or whatever chemical and NO ONE DID.
    The “ story” was two years with compliance and no hospitalizations. And when it did happen there were excuses hiding their ignorance.
    When I was given medication, part of me thought fine Show Me, Show Me Know and after years lost and awful experiences yeah my instinct was right not any type of panacea at best nightmare at worst.
    However people do seek these chemicals. No one has addressed the word of mouth part of this I tried it and it worked white suburban folks and then the kids stole the meds and some bad things happened.
    I think there are some folks who knows why that it is helpful but I don’t understand why and no one knows.
    There are no longitudinal studies at all.
    But it is clear big Pharma and the FDA were actively in greed mode. They didn’t care at all.
    If we are ever to truly have a round table there has to be all encompassing dialogue and truth in lending – really some of the blogs I don’t know.
    I am trying hard to withdraw and rest for awhile from thinking on all of this.
    Hopefully , I wouldn’t be triggered and I can just focus on now not the past. Tincture of Time the best script written after TLC.

  • Ah Ed you have a treasure to give. DE Winnicot! I wa told when a child was not cooperating he would say / you know this isn’t fun let’s doodle.
    Many of us here have been deeply wounded but there were folks who did try to help not super well but they took a caring approach – too few and too hidden.
    I for one would be interested in hearing your experiences and thoughts.

  • As a retired LISW with over twenty years working in urban and other areas and well acquainted with treatment from both sides of the desk, this seems like a conversation from eh ? 1990?
    It is good to see a dialogue format but have you been reading what is out there and are you into empowerment, social justice of all tropes, and trauma?
    An overview of past pdych meds? Really?
    What about family history and culture?
    If one’s so called client has a Jewish background wish in terms of intergenerstional trauma , same and even more so for African Americans, Hispanics, and First Nation folks and one cannot forget the Armenian Genocide.
    Then there is the conflagration of layers of complex trauma when intergenerstional trauma is overlaid with victims turning into aggressors. Read “ To Kill a Mocking Bird” Ella May was taped by her “ white trash” father who MADE her accuse an innocent black man. Alice Walker’s “ The Color Purple” showed in fine detail a father’s rape of his daughter. Both men tragically affected by cultural history and using the only power they felt they had sex to enforce control.
    Add to this , so many folks go to their graves without being able to tell about abuse episodes.
    Then there is the why some folks endure and become assets to the world and others like these male fictional characters become part of the great morass.
    Psych meds are ways to control and if you want we all here could share ways of coping without loads of meds or none at all.
    I will be hoping for some interactive feedback. A true dialogue is multi sided.

  • Thanks for this Anders. I found new and interesting facts from your writing.
    It would be really interesting to do a blog with a timeline graphic from the start of the first diagnosing to now. There has been so much changing. When I started becoming aware my view was that this was a DD issues and this persisted with PDD . There also was a book Son Rise by Barry Kaufman and I had heard stories of total transformations. I would also like to see environmental toxins and other data in the timeline. Rachel Carson, I think only touched the top of the iceberg.
    Global info too!
    Then there is the whole yes sensory integration issue The Spirited Child was a big book in the day.
    Artists of all ills have that and in some places I have heard we are all in the spectrum.
    Also allergies and asthma. Both issues especially in urban areas.
    And just for the heck of it – there used to be cancer islands- folks would go house to house and ask and some were found and there is the public health issue in Victorian England about disease and water wells.
    There is so much and I am sure at times I have or fall into the spectrum for what it is worth- not much.
    The big issue here is school. To get help you need to get labeled.
    If every child had an IEP – change and the money to execute education like those who are truly privileged.

  • Thanks Alex I remembered to state your name at times just to triggered. However there is Alan Bates in “ King of Hearts” knocking at the gate. There is the madwoman if a certain part of Paris, France showing the stairs down to the Paris underground and locking the door behind the oil inspector and his friends. There is also this from Audre Lorde
    I have found that battling despair does not mean closing my eyes to the enormity of the tasks of effecting change, nor ignoring the strength and the barbarity of forcedignedagaibst us. It means teaching,surviving, and fighting with the most important resource I have, myself. and taking joy in that battle.
    So there is that. I am resting and will not be back for awhile. Best to all the inmates.

  • Actually if one works in a government entity one is in the government union. Supervisors are part of the bargaining unit and so forth. It gets very mess when there is a strike. Some workers stay inside in order not to break the lines.
    In Community Mental Health Clinics despite popular myth they are not government entities. In fact, they were supposed to get monies from the Fed but the monies never materialized and county taxes were used to shore up the system since each center was separate and unique. In some states funding was divided with labels such as DD levies versus DDand MH levies.
    So unions were helpful to staff it they were alliwed. Unlike government agencies there were no Pensions or PERS.
    It then made agencies created in this mode to use public and private insurance. Then even government agencies were feeling the elevator drop in financial support and they went into gaining access to government insurance. The state government did not like their Medicaid monies going to agencies do a cat and mouse Hell was created with states using every opp to deny billing monies to agencies based on progress note VOCABULARY. This approach was further developed along Case Management and Therapy lines. Administrators would cull ever note written and probably still do to ensure proper wording was in place. In the last agency I worked at a well known Jewish agency staff were using copies from progress note workbooks to ensure their notes were not censured and kept their jobs. It wasn’t never, at that point what you did, it was solely what you wrote.
    Clients needs and concerns were st the bottom of the cess pool.
    I walked away after nearly being fired. This was based on vocabulary in my progress notes. They knew I was good just not profitable. The folks I worked with ALWAYS or mostly AlWAYS liked me. I was not perfect or totally awoke but I tried to honor and respect them and learn from them.
    So their clients were retraumatized once again by having me leave. Stupid , stupid, and more stupid.
    There are folks who have a knack for supporting others through trying times. Our society puts all of us in the shredder and doesn’t care one iota how we or us or we who have tried to gain access to so called help and or support end up. Once agencies assumed CEO and CFO officials we and the system were goners ruined and abused goners.

  • Well duh. In a world on fire without any sustained emotional sustenance what would one expect?
    Church institutions are being exposed as viper nests of abuse, corporate interests of many ilks are holding up or putting into motion nefarious and malefesent power plays that have been building up for decades, museums and other art circles have been infested with money from for profit deliberate make us money at any cost short and long term thinking and acting strategies, the VA is trying to be taken over by a troika based out of Mar Lar Go, the environment is trashing and may be completely trashed, suicide rates are up in ever every human sector, isms continue to proliferate, folks are weighed down by every sector and vector of circumstance, lies abound,
    media is doing well because it’s soap opera time on the edge of what will be the next WTF moment, and help or soul caring for almost anyone – even the super rich is almost non existent.
    I keep waiting for the clean up crew to arrive for the end of our bread and circus global street parade, but the units and bands just keep on coming. I long to see the Zombini on ice or the humble street cleaner moving past toward the end of this endurance event not quite a full scale war but definitely not safe times, not a pre something or yet a post something. The hundred year war is my only go to thought and I truly hope that thought is wrong.
    And it is all folks. I cannot say police for all their issues are not in pain or acute or chronic distress. I cannot say that for staff in psych units either. I would only guess if truth be told admins at insurance companies, clergy, pollsters, are all in some sort of crisis.
    The ratings may be great for media companies but how long of an extended cycle of WTF continue. And illnesses, colds, ect how much of that is just a body metaphor for my life stinks.
    And the children. They are listening and watching and not only what is this DOING to them but what is it FOING to any possible future progeny? Intergenerstional Trauma begins in the womb.
    For some there is a hope for the future after but unless there is some sort of local, national, global plans of action or framework already being created- I don’t know.
    My hope would be for trauma centers run by all types of survivors and some how a level playing field for all. I don’t expect perfection it just would be nice to see hope in action a strong bonding of promise. Other wise the insane asylum will just become the earth itself.

  • Thanks for this. I found your personal story compelling. I am sorry for your loss.
    Back in the day in treatment with children, no medication was used. Even in residential treatment. The only time I saw it used was for developer mentally disabled children and that was NOT across the board.
    It is not only chemicals that are issued as treatment but the total disabandement of any concept of treatment quality. If there was any and I still believe in some places or folks there were , it has become extinct. What is left is the last visible skeleton of so called treatment and a continuing ongoing assault of bio0sychiatry to keep its hands on the money at all costs.
    Thanks again and THANKS for commenting.

  • Thanks yes. I had known peers who worked there and the attrition rate was fast and furious. No one wanted to work the program. They actually had me do most of the work- messed up on meds and a mother in crisis. I appreciate their kind efforts to help a peer so very much. The others group leaders not good some awful. One way of doing mindfulness was walking through the hospital and appreciating the indoor plants. There was no – none type of Jon Jabari Zinn and Harvard Mind Body techniques. Trauma was not labeled as such and all of us where in various types of and levels of trauma.
    There was no caring or empathy.
    Our insurance paid for this travesty.
    Therapist don’t care re about last labeling just get the patient in the door.
    The best form of help for parenting trauma was the program I had been Co- Director of so not an option.
    Everyone in the family of was compromises d by cancer survivorship or missing because of death from cancer or compromised by other tragic illnesses.
    And I had been the rock of gilbrater that had been utterly shattered.
    Looking based Ca any money that was a copay could and should have been used for a long family extended time away somewhere. That for some reason did not seem possible. Help at home which if one had sisters or cousins or friends would have worked with support for them. But no one was there. No one.
    The kids paid the price. I call child abuse and neglect by proxy.

  • I question this. The creator of DBT is actually a psych survivor who hid her status for years. Dr Marsha L something. She was given a SMI type of dx.
    When I was in the life of trauma one psychologist referred me to a day treatment DBT program. It was awful for me, for my family, and my extended family. It was summer and my kids were left on their own. During the cigarette breaks- I don’t smokeI wouldcallthem to check in. My one daughter baked brownies and I was not there to help her when she burned herself. It was her first time making brownies. If I hadn’t been so compromised by trauma and over medication Iwould have not gone and tried but it was pushed on me.
    The groups were ridiculous and devoid of any sense of good. YES MASTER is one of the acronyms the treatment uses. I cringed when I was forced to listen to that sexist drivel.
    Yes it had mindfulness and supposed spirituality fake , fake, and more fake.
    The reason there is any positive outcome is that there are no lap tops in the group therapy rooms. And most people don’t have twenty years postgraduate work to evaluate the program and its providers.
    I was able to chalkenge the spirituality group leader and she left the room in session. The other group members applauded.

  • As a former LISW, I saw this from the time when there was a possibility of hope to this and worse. I also have been so called gifted with being in the system in all if forms.
    Thanks for this but.
    You are not helping. Truly. It might seems as if you r but what I and friends would discuss is sometimes those helpful sessions were triggering and some of us came out of the building totally zombified. And when in a trtraumatized state and especially if you are labeled SMI the power differential is unequal.
    My mother was a MSW and worked with pregnant women who had to climb up 7 flights of stairs to get to her office. It wasn’t until she herself had been through pregnancy that she realized what SHE had done to those women and she never did that again. And she was for the 1950’s and early 1960’s fairly awoke for a white woman of those times.
    I have experienced the same OMG, WTF type of reaction after my own time in the solitary room in inpatient so called treatment.
    I saw what you have seen but there is so much more.
    I am glad you wrote this but do something. I have had bad experiences so I don’t have the freedom to do what you could do.
    1) Read up on the Pdych survivor momvement and Disability Studies. The powers that be divide and conquer so well in this area. They put each group of folk with different disabilities into little boxes and make them feel that it is a zero sum game.
    2)Ask five folks that you work work to tell them to tell you the truth of being in system.
    3) Do a trauma history with their permission and have a plan about who what where and how you can help them.
    Have you read the literature of trauma? Both professional and survivor and IHO the best are those that gave both backgrounds and are woke. There are some that have both but are not woke. Don’t dismiss them but read between the lines in everything and everyone.
    4) Make a plan to leave and get out. It is not going to get better right now. What you described is a catatonic, divisive, top down agency. It will hurt and harm you.
    Dialogue with us.Learn and maybe you can be part of the change .

  • I am interested in the framework of the new institute. Who will be on board and on the board? Where is the funding coming from?
    Will the voice of medical patients of all tropes and types be part of the configuration?
    What is the Mission Statement?
    What is the business plan?
    Have you considered how to make changes so that an action that was taken by the CEO cannot happen again?
    What are the short and long term goals and objectives?
    Will the concept of violations of human rights be of ongoing concern?
    Will there be any human rights advocacy?
    How will you get your message out and by what means?
    Thanks. I like the concept of failing up.

  • Corinna, I think we all realize your efforts. I tried to create a non alternative place and got no help, in fact I was targeted by NAMI folks who came into a free Reiki session and two females came up and started sprouting. Mental Illness is a disease like diabetes. I was too kind to ask if they had ever worked on a medical floor or personally knew folks who have or cared for those with that true disease. I also failed to ask if they had either a SocialnWork, or other type of liscence that would allow them to make statements such as that.
    I also interviewed for a Cimmunity Mental Health Center that has for years been peer focused and as soon as I mentioned Robert W’s Work end of interview.
    Also does not help my former boss was physically escorted out of a County MH meeting by police on orders of the director of the MH / SA board. He had been in line to get the position himself but as they say the fix was in.
    In some places things are difficult.

  • Thanks OH.
    Yes. Folks need to read about Jonas Salk and his refusal to take on any financial benefit from his work on the Polio Vaccine. And how many kids in iron lungs do we see now? He was legitimate. Contrast that with Marsha Getson’s latest New Yorker article on the action at the Met Art Education Center.
    People were killed – thousands all in the quest for profit.
    As is written in the Declration of Independence by a slave owner who refused to Free his six ? children from slavery until after his death “ it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it.”
    There is now, thanks to Bryon Stephenson and many others a memorial to those lives destroyed by the Jim Crow era of lynchings.
    Pablum and politeness isn’t going to work.
    Though I appreciate your efforts and it shows how their thinking is irrational-

    how can any human be afraid of other and or 360 perspectives unless they are fearful of losing power and control?
    There is an ocean of this small thinking that has gained influence on so many institutions and they have or are trying to not only lock folks up but also throw away the key by various actions like divide and conquer, following the systemic method of Jim Crow subtle and not so subtle fear and control abuse, dis information, blame and name calling.
    They don’t want people to connect the dots which would show
    many but not all folks in the systems or systems depending how global one wants to go with multiple institutions
    and formats
    that the lines lead straight to a select group with various hangers on ect….
    During WWII there were various efforts to ferment change within the Nazi government and Stalin ect – it failed because many people thought at first they could be reasoned with.
    With money and power and control involved reason means nothing.
    I am still hopeful we have not reached a point of no return but it seems we need much much more like the Met action and use Saul Alinsky and other ancient and new strategists to inform the future.

  • Corinna,
    I see where you are coming from but Saul Alinsky would say just your request in and off itself is putting you in the less powerful position.
    What many, many folks don’t understand about being in need of support is that there are many ways and the powers that be have limited everyone perspective on that, closed doors and windows, and blind folded , shackled, and deafened true human perspective.
    Many founders have both above ground and below ground agendas and they want what they want regardless.
    Asking to be seated at the table is much different from just taking a seat st the table.
    Why not an anti NAMI parallel group?

  • He is a Finnish psychiatrist.
    I doubt he has ever spent a significant amount of time in either urban, rural, or suburban American public school systems.
    Back in the day, when I was young and Oresident Reagan had just come into office, African American children in Virginia supposedly integrated where expressing fears that all African Americans would be moved to Africa. Considering the Inugural Committee had the Morman Tabernacle Choir sing on the steps of the Lincoln Momument with Ephesians Zimilist Jr as the MC , I would have said their fears though untrue had a solid basis and yes a nine year old child might well think bringing a pocket knife to school or not going into the bused “ white” section for school might not be an especially safe choice and combine that the integration action was created to fail because the teachers stayed and were not integrated.
    One of my friends father was a principal and went to homes to convince families it was safe.
    He ended up leaving the education field. Another good professional gone because of corrupt systems
    I am not anti public school or school but
    if one is going to talk the talk one needs mud one ones hiking boots.

  • Brice, I am so very sorry for the loss of your mother and then stepmother and then hard times seemed to have continued. You lived on and it was not stupid for you to help out others and your life narrative is so very important.
    Kids need you.
    The trouble is the system and it still there were some good things perculsting but they got shot down. Fritz Redl would be a good person to look up if you still work in residential treatment.

    To all, there are two threads here that for me seem to be getting tangled.
    There is the 911 and or mental health check and then separate the mandated reporting thread.
    1) The world is made so that ANYONE can make a call to polic and THEY have to act on that call.
    So after having a blowout in the family car with one of my teen kids who was beyond furious with me for IDK and drove down the street to fast. Well families always always be wary when there are teen drivers living on the street or. the guy who stops at the bar everyday after work. So the neighbors made a fuss, I apologized for her behavior because by that time she had taken the car and driven away. I walked into the garage and muttered to myself something about being a bad parents and because there had been a suicide in the tiwn -actually a relative and nobody in the neighborhood knew because she did not associate with me- I just had these words that came out because several days earlier the same kid who also was unaware of the family relationship Nrs so and so shot her self in the mouth and died.
    On overhearing my comment which was ostensibly private the neighborhood said loudly I know what I will do. I will call the police. She had no idea of who I was in any shape or form.
    And then the police came.
    No consequences for her poor judgement and breaking of boundaries. None.
    I was mortified.
    This practice has a long history. Some people use it to create neighborhood wars. And now it can be a racist or whatever ism and done and cloaked in so called caring.Fear plays a role too-
    It makes everything so much much worse for EVERYONE involved.

    Then mandated reporting can be used to help or hurt by usually the mandated is for trained professionals with the emphasis on trained. With the breaking of the systems there are risks the trainings are done poorly and the CPS staff poorly paid, overworked, and not requiring any special degree or life wisdom – can be problematic in the investigation.
    Children are a lifeline to the future. In the United States they are pawns for politicians and mere consumers for profit making corporations. And the abuse and neglect especially in certain groups- ah we are ruining heart , mind, and soul here.
    So IDK issues all around. I will always trust a survivor of any corrupt system then one who claims human perfection.
    We need leaders like you Brice who KNOW and create something like a phoenix.

  • Thanks Sera and kudos for writing about this! I am so glad the interactions were relatively minor- which says everything about my own life narrative.
    There are several layers to this workshop and how it played out for you.
    I admire your bravery and know exactly where you were coming from and my guess is one of the inner voices was saying don’t go there but you did and I probably might have done the same twenty years ago. Now no.
    1) This is now and we are living in a mess of a hair trigger world. We all are walking on broken glass so to speak.
    As I look for societal connections to make or observe systems of all kinds I see knots and tangles, holes, and rips in fabric.So I try to see all folks as coming from this life trauma framework but so very hard and always one step forward and two steps backward.
    So my guess all the folks including trainers were co- existing with trauma and were somewhere in different levels with all of that. Your real ness probably scared them witless!
    So the one of the two things I want to bring up is we all all know folks who have tried or did commit suicide regardless of wherever we are on the spectrum and I would stand my ground that it’s not if you Thought this life is not that great my options are very limited and any hope grows dim at one time or another.
    No group has ever brought out the connection of how we as a society not only cannot desk with death but suicide is almost a verboten word almost to the level of a taboo.
    Read the obits. Listen to the muddle story of a cousin’s sudden death. The whispered stories that children tell each other at sleepovers. You know that house in the corner? This were the whoever offed themselves by whatever method fill in the blank.
    In my old parish there was a suicide cluster and lots of wtf type of deaths in the passing years. I think trauma of many sorts played a role.
    My list of folks and peers who have chosen somehow to walk away is long.
    And there are so many ways to do that.
    Not one so called helping profession ever ever bothered to asl how have you been affected by suicide. Never because
    way way to scary and oh my the therapist would have experience your loss – secondary or tertiary trauma.
    12step programs have been the only place I have felt this is even acknowledged and I know other new groups. This is just the first that comes to mind. I am aware of others.
    The second piece is it wasn’t always this way. I really knew a Vietnam Vet shrink who would be like folks are going to do what they are going to do. There were more folks out there after the 1950’s and then it fell apart fairly quickly especially in the eighties.
    And yes there are dangerous situations and like you been there done that but not anything like your workshop.
    I hope the media picks up on this. There are some signs but not enough and I am too old to be patient for a long haul perspective. Trauma centers now.

  • Interesting thoughts Chaya.
    I found that when I was incarcerated in the psych unit I was massively drugged and my vision was so blurry it was hard to read and also just focus.
    This was an issue outside as well. My eyes did not work right.
    And go tell that story to your friendly neighborhood ophthalmologist.
    My other thoughts are no large print books, tv’s encased in locked wood boxes virtually impossible too use. Staff controlled so the worst of the worst was ALWAYS on. No auditory system for reading. No music. No art. Nada Nada.
    I also want to point out that in the penal incarceration system there are also gross injustices.
    Racism is real and ugly.
    There is a school to prison pipeline. And how many are being forced to take “ our” type of meds?
    How many really do have educational access?
    What books are actually given to them or as I would guess are they censored?
    TD Jakes but not Eldridge Cleaver?
    We need to join together somehow and somehow continue to highlight the terrible awfulness of not having any conception of discharge dates, any any legal or social advocate and No outside time.
    We can bond with seclusion and solitary confinement.
    Kids Chaya kids like ten year olds are or can be in solitary!
    We all need to study more about each other. Read and study hard uncomfortable stuff and then dialogue.
    And hopefully sooner rather than later make comprehensive change.
    I feel a bond with ex cons, I feel a bond with any type of hostages, I feel a bond with POW, I ferl a bond with detainees and refugees like those in Australia.
    The Native American children taken to boarding schools. The Irish women and girls taken and umprisioned by the Magdalene Laudaties. Those in the First and Ladt Circes in Soviet Russia and any country here and now.
    What is that old saying? None without us? Something like that together.

  • I understand your anger and he didn’t have the guts to stand up to the powers that be this enduring horrible harm for generations of women. But one has to acknowledge that he did see it but surrcombed to the academic powers. If he had not been Jewish maybe it would have been different. I don’t know and we will never know. I just like to a full view to everyone and acknowledge efforts even if deliberately stopped.
    One of the problems of history is that it is mainly written by the victors and so much important stuff is deliberately or randomly lost.
    All sides should be recorded and discussed even though the yuck favor or really really legitimate outrage is felt.
    My father would read books on folks he did’t like – buy them in fact, so I like to have a 360 view of things. Very dicey and painful at times but for me there you go.
    I enjoy your comments and thinking. Your voice is an important part of the mix – every voice is and deserves to be heard though ah at times for me, they can still be triggering from my past life of so called treatment.
    Thanks for responding!

  • Actually Richard and somewhat contrary to the article, I read and was taught it was not Freud who censored his patients it was the Medical peers and Psychoanalytic Socities that discredited Freud and in order to continue on in good graces he was forced to retract some of his work in that area.
    It must have haunted him. His culture and religious background could, may have been problematic in view of the historical events in Germany before he fled to England.
    No matter what, it was an immense tragedy all aroun for everyone.

  • Not sure I agree with injury almost a vortex / Cascade event or events. Very similar in thought but not in vocabulary to Sarah’s blog.
    There needs to be a type of Paris Table Peace talk with at least two diverse voices dialoguing in real time. A person with triworld experience in this family/ self/ MH professional world would be extremely invaluable.
    Once a word and concept framework is agreed upon maybe even have a vote here. Which words are acceptable or not?
    Then go for exposure st all the various CUE professionals are mandated to attend and do a traveling show with that. By working as a group rather than individual effort the safety fears of psych survivors would be somewhat assumed. If someone does do a Mental Health call on you at the conference it will be observed by friends instead of strangers who know what to do.
    Folks are usually bored to tears at these conferences so at worst their thoughts will be when does the party start after the evaluations are turned in?
    Then I would add legal and media supporters and then aim for a White House Conference or Congressional hearings or testimony.
    Until I can see dialogue happening and cross referencing between blogs and ALL folks nothing ain’t goin to happen.
    Breggin and others need not only to write but dialogue and in the oldblig oneboringoldman as interesting as it was. He discriminated based on profession and survivors barely got a glancing nod.
    If one is fighting Leviathian one will not win with one harpoon or a Captain Ahab in charge. Ishmael was the only human left from the Pequad and he was saved because Queque sensed doom and built himself a coffin.
    We need a type of Shakelton for our times with a band of merry not pranksters but commingled voices of strong resistance and ultimate action.

  • Yes the name and yes it is the parents who started it and in my area many families were of the Jewush faith and though I knew professionals whose parents lived through the Holocaust theconnection between inter generational trauma and the as Dr. Carl Whittaker would say before he became a family therapy parish “ the identified patient” was never seen and there even now is now aha moment or eureka in this organizational matrix.
    Codependency but ah that comes from trauma as well. And I think as Sarah did with her recent writing parents need the same creative stress response format.
    Fear this I saw in MH professionals many who had relatives with issues in the system but a type of trying to save things in the family ala E. Fuller Torrey MD and his sister. And really what happened to her? In the origin story and in my reading no would not want a sibling like that No.
    But there is the fear what if my kids get it? And for many people the crazy aunt or uncle or grandparent is erased. As the DD parents were TOLD to do by the docs when their child was born” not right.”
    And then in medical family circles ah the shrink kids – always at least one in big do do. So the fear can become a reality and then there is the .org that comes to their rescue.
    I still don’t understand the divide between ARC and BAMI though sometimes issues crossover. And is ARC still called ARC. I have lost touch. But the label was caught and mostly won.
    And in the agencies inclusion was fought for but also times just to hang with the homies too. I never ever got that feeling from NAMI ever.
    FYI Best Boy is an old but worthy documentary on a Down Syndrome young man leaving his parents. There is NOTHING like this type of effort in NAMI.
    Also Rachel there is guilt the gift that always keeps giving. Mother’s ferl that and some husbands use it for all its worth. So the Moms in NAMI How many have heard-You Gave Birth to him or her?
    Way way too many and a group like NAMI uses it for all that it is worth.
    I am with Sera on all of this.

  • Thanks Sera. This is so very frustrating because an agency which is supposed to “ help” many times is doing the work of the devil with out even being aware. It is like the parable of the 12 blind men trying to describe an elephant- 12 different versions of the truth without any any coherence.
    I think this is part and parcel of other disabilities and medical condition groups. It helps to have folks in the know but as long as there are particular founders who are using these groups for profit and greed nothing great will come out of any of these agencies.
    The divide and conquer routine started early with some states funding both MH and DD and others funding each group into very unequal ways. And there was stigma but it was used against the families. It was okay to have a DD child but never the other way around.
    A tangled tangled web. For decades parents of DD kids were told at birth forget you ever gave birth to this child. So there is that. And on and on in so many ways for so many things and especially HUNAN BEINGS.
    I go back to trauma and maybe there needs to be a category pardon the word here shock. People go into a physical Cascade condition why not with emotions as well. This would help explain why sometimes fir whatever reason some folks see some sort of results with medication.
    And a NAMI is not subtle or nuanced and maybe because there also is a bbbule most folks live in and unless they see the hand writing on the wall- they continue to be unaware and unwise.

  • There used to be time and space for PSA’s and or space was bought bringing out alternative points of view. Yup
    Brynner did a spot while he was terminally ill against smoking saying it would air after his death which it did.
    There also were pieces in the men who did the Marlborough Man advertising. I think many died of lung cancer.
    At this time there empty space.
    I had forgotten about The Plug In Drug!
    Subliminal advertising is something I wonder about . Kurt Vonnegut worked in advertising and then wrote some seminal novels about all things strange.
    His son supposedly had an “ Mental Illbess” but did recover. I hope he is doing well.

  • Another perspective of this is that psych units are not the only institutions where patient abuse occurs. As in psych units are not the only institutions that use drugs/ neurotoxins/ chemicals/ beuropleptics – whatever to control patient’s behavior.
    It is at least a double edge maybe octagonal edged sword.
    For staff- many are in the edge financially and possibly in other areas. I can attest to knowing that some staff myself included where on the same meds drugs whatever as the patients.
    This was whenchemistry miracle was all the rage and I fell hook , line, and sinker.
    Many staff are coming from trauma and also abuse and addictions. Life we are all coming from life and it affects what jobs you get to how you handle employment on a minute to minute bases.
    Now with part time work and skeleton staff pushed by upper management for the sole reason of CEO and CFO and one word that had been missing at MIA stockholders needs and wants for money.
    Everything has been compromised. Every institution except for those that truly care and are humane is a disaster waiting to happen. Kind of like our nation and globally as well. The powers that be have ransacked knowledge , ethics, caritas, respect and dignity to all players.
    On the drugging of non psych patients with psych drugs. Oh yes. Slightly aggressive elderly man- here’s some half-lives for you/ they even half dosages specifically for the elderly.
    Rambucious adolescent on the ward causing mayhem on weekends / a little bit of haldol. Never acknowledging ah environment, the kids mother, just died and oh yeah the family had an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing. The rich want money – interest from their investments and not two houses but ten. Not one yacht but 9. They want t look young and beautiful forever. This allcosts extreme levels of money.
    The admins want no problems, the docs want no problems, staff want no problems. Cut the souls out of humans and voila no problems.

  • Crazifying human discomfort has a long history. Like the knowledge of trauma it comes and goes.
    In the older days of medicine there was a well known saw horse about new medical students or for that matter put any student dealing with medical issues of some sort. Very many students would come up with a dx they thought they had. It was a part of the process of diagnosis and back then for some docs it was then as not only humorous but a step in the ART of medicine. However, this came with a strong strong caveat- sometimes the med students WERE CORRECT. Any good doc or prof or professional worth their salt would be able to relate a story about someone who dx their own disease.
    What has been forgotten is not only medical and other students but many folks have the capacity to figure things out. Lorenzo’s Oil for example.
    This has been forgotten. When zi was working a PhD/ md student was complaining of cardiac issues and nothing could be found. He ended up having a cardiac event on the floor of the adult psych unit where I worked.
    The thoradtic surgeons heard the code called and laughed because it was from the psych unit. The one doc who did rush down several flights of stairs and literally opened him up was the burn unit doc who always associated burns with stress in folks lives. I heard him speak to that very issue in the late seventies. The student did not make it. The unit had a group meeting to explain to the folks on the unit what had gone down. Not a perfect place but do so so much better than some of the holes I was put into.
    This also goes to the past and milinary factories where chemicals literally made folks “ mad hatters”. This is only one example- I suspect many more and more beyond just chemistry but nutrition and other things as well.
    Insurance limiting interviews to fire teen minutes no eye contact and in and out slam bang is not care or treatment or medicine it is profit making Clog Wheel Machinary disguised as fill in the blank medicine, banking, education and on and on ad nsusuam.
    There was also at the hospital later on the 90’s a push for research for every department and section. As if doing research was a panacea or gold standard. I am sure most of the so called research studies were ethically compromised. I know my section’s work was.
    So much of the historical ethical research value has been lost or deliberately erased. The English Dr. Jenner inoculated his own family first with his new vaccine. That is the type of moral human being we need now more than ever. We have lost our way many decades ago and I can only hope somehow we can stumble into better days for ALL.

  • On Will’s thoughts.
    Currently if one is disabled for more than two years one can receive Medicare. If one is younger than 65 my best guess is that one is red glued in the eyes of medical office personal, banks and others. And since we live in such desperate times there is chatter much or all of it negative. “ Well I wonder what is “ wrong” with him/ her?
    Nasty times increase nasty talk and crazy seems like an explanation of the too many woefuly ignorant of our country. Whether deaf, or on the spectrum of various conditions, there is even more than ever the sense of ANY type of otherness as not only wrong but dangerous. The extreme tragedy of this is many of the worst offenders are victims of our system but can’t see it.
    So Universal Healthcare would decrease the othering. We would ALL have the same cards.
    Universal Income Star Trek? Yes. Robots are here and more much more to come and can really alleviate awful jobs but society is still bound by past historical conventions about employment.
    Employment and vocation are actually two vastly different concepts and we all could be Tevye’s rich man doing what we enjoy instead of gearing up to work in jobs that are awful or dangerous.
    Geel, Belgium has had a long long history of including those with differences in their daily lives.
    Everyone has something to contribute. My college President was a well known scientist and was considered a laughing stock by most of the students who mainly came from a business perspective.
    He was most known for walking the campus st 5: am and picking up the trash from the mostly white like 97% of the students nights of drinking and stupid revelry.
    Once I meet him, I found him to be a kind gentle man and still consider him a true hero. In today’s era one of the neighbors or a visitor could have seen him at dawn and called the police. A crazy man having now idea who he really was.
    Just some thoughts. I appreciate Eill’s efforts and the discussion.

  • For those who are not well acquainted with the poem
    It can be triggering even in its beauty.

    Allen Ginsberg 1955-1956 dates of writing
    Part I
    I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness…..
    who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the supernatural darkness of cold- water flats
    who bored their brains to Heaven under the El and saw Mohammedan Angels staggering….
    who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes…..
    who threw their watches off the roof to cast their ballot for Eternity outside of Time…..
    ah Carl,while you are not safe and now you’re actually in the total animal soup
    of time…..
    Part II
    I am with you in Rockland where you must feel very strange….
    I am with you in Rockland where fifty more shocks will never return your soul to its body again from the pilgrimage to a cross in the road….
    Holy, holy, holy,
    Holy the supernatural extra brilliant intelligent kindness of the soul

  • What is going on with Facebook and it’s targeting? It seems as if it’s one hand has no idea what the other hand is doing.
    Before Facebook engaged as an internet community it should have looked into ethical and psychological issues that would be possibly harmful. The Hippocratic Oath of First Do No Harm is relevant here.
    This is certainly bordering on a problem that was created through a new technology that NO ONE was prepared for and it seems no type of oversight in any way , shape or form.

  • Actually the term used to be gomer and go mere for get out of my ER. This is an issue for the entire medical system though I am not sure about how urgent care units have changed the use of ER.
    This is a really sticky wicket and so very much messed up.
    If folks are in crisis or feel they are in crisis or family members feel the identified patient is in crisis other than hotlines which may produce a police visit which will in turn trigger trauma there are few options because all MH private practitioners and CMHC have go to your ER.
    And crisis does not come in convent times usually it is the evening of a holiday / the day after a Saturday funeral ect ect ect.
    Not one therapist o shrink was able to elucidate a plan for hard times. One mentioned breathing – well how and why EDMR was created by walking in nature with tree leaves. So the breathing therapist also said walk in nature but no good explanation of how and why.
    One can do this on one’s own. Have a set of daily weekly rituals that help. Have things to do during hard times. Create your own design and do not rely on the system unless you have the luck to have a professional worth their Wright in gold.
    A 24/7 trsuma center for ALL citizens makes perfect sense to me.
    Police, mothers, docs, nurses, teachers, retail workers, call center workers, clergy- we all need a place to go with non pharmacy tools.
    Now with the world as it is- it makes sense probably too much sense for it ever to become a reality. But one can hold out hope.

  • Yes. Abriana most people with addictions or mostly anyone in the system do not and should not conform to a DSM dx. This is an insurance driven mechanism like IEP dx that solely bring in money for the institution.
    I as others have been in patient settings and yes you are on target for that.
    I think you saw what I saw folks from the underworld hanging out passing time awhile far removed from those that want payback.
    When I was a volunteer at a woman’s n’s shelter in DC – two blocks from the White House near what we use to call needle park I saw drug deals going down with pregnant prostitutes. Hard to ever know what was what but it stunk to high heaven.
    I would observe the units would get really crowded on weekends. My guess is the psych residents in the ER came from such privileged backgrounds were so unaware of the underground life they had no idea they were being scammed.
    By Monday most of the “ guys – some females” were gone.
    I having worked with offenders knew but under massive medication and REELING from trauma couldn’t put it into words and so gain who would believe me?
    I also ran into folks who had two different personas in two different systems. My guess they could have been NARCS. And yes I know about NARCS and the good and sometimes bad folks they envelope in their webs of investigation. And I am not even going to go into other agencies and groups that would find these floors FOR THEM safe havens.
    So this what you might have seen and I would guess corporate might have had arrangements.
    There were true creeps in some of the units and some other weird stuff that NEVER FIT into any experience I had working in a psych unit pre 9/11.
    But who knows? And again I am now “ officially crazy” so my word means nothing and will never mean anything.
    And the so called “ help” in terms of talk not help at all, at all. I was robbed of a life and profession and most importantly I was my children were ROBBED of a normal life.
    Never fall into the dx trap. It is only a snapshot and useful for using something. I prefer trauma or other terms that are less stigmatizing and harmful.
    Research more- and keep away from the system. The doc seems okay and there are good ones but if he or she didn’t ask about your experience or confirm that there was stuff going down then go on your own. Until the totality of all of this comes out just be aware. And yes this does sound crazy but check out 60 minutes and the mafia don that hid out in a psych unit when needed. It does happen.

  • Cat, I am very interested in your comment about the Adderal high.
    When Ireturned to school I got a script from my GP. A relative had used it and it seemed to help andI did fit the categories.
    This is when the MH system got a hold of me. And now looking back probably was addicted. It was the beginning of the Cascade.
    So my question is should I do a2/ step program? I am off all drugs but still have things to work on.
    I know 12 step more from an Slanon CODA and my big qualm is this was given to me by a doc and have harrowing experiences I am off all of it. This is 13 years or so in the past. I try to do the steps any way- seems like there needs to be something for those that got addicted not by need but by the system.

  • This, I would put in the file labeled things your grandma could have told you or any other wise elder type of folk.
    Any type of any artistic engagement is always going to be a good thing no matter what age or background of human. Duh!
    This is a good example of labeling being essentially meaningless.
    When one looks as people as just individual human beings not as cancer patients, or psychos, or head trauma pets, or TB pts, or stroke victims – btw why does that phrase come so readily too mind?
    And thanks Alex for your own story and great example of art allowing us to be away from ourselves and the daily realities of life as it is.
    And Soneone Else I am sorry the MH professionals were so ignorant of culture and the artistic process. They seemed to be ignorant of more than that especially compassion.
    The United States lost much when the WPA and its many divisions were broken up and destroyed. We need to get that structure back. In the eighties I spent time with two Dutch artists. There is or was I assume still is a national work program that has every government building use work of Dutch artitists for appreciation of employees and other citizens. This gives folk work, there is an evaluative process so staked are still high, and created a win , win situation for all.
    I have been at nationally acclaimed hospitals where very beautiful but extremely high priced works are presented on fine marble walls. I know artist in the city who are working several jobs while still creating art and as I walked past the art work at 3:am, I would think how much more meaningful it would be to see a local artist works and one that I may know. It would provide a much more human connection in the lonely corridors one one’s family member could be at stake.
    Also- psych patients DO NOT HAVE the comfort of family members during their stay. Irony of all Irnonies/ as a mother I slept in the ICU , I spent literally DAYS 34/7 with my family relative/s and when I was held- visiting hours were strictly curtailed and strongly enforced.
    This is what a truly ethical researcher should be/ would be working on. Fluff is fluff whether in academic journals or everyday reporting.

  • Cat. Thanks so much for posting and yes Steve it is a long long list. I was at one of these so called hospitals and it was abusive and at best ignorant of any best practice.
    I discovered this several years ago by calling the institution and someone let it slip who the actual owner was. They keep it very well hidden.
    There are so many ethical and moral issues to discuss and it is hard for me because of the memories and I still haven’t cried. There still hasn’t been anyone I can discuss this with who truly understands and the internet is good but human eye to eye contact is so very necessary for finding some sort of safe space recovery pattern in life after endurance of this trauma.I also read’s Cat’s post on another page and everyone should read it. Yes and yes and yes.
    I don’t know about Yelp. I think I did it early in and my comment/ review was removed.
    One has to remember they have lawyers and eyes and they use them to protect themselves.
    I was on another forum for serious medical issues and there was talk about hospitals checking the forum comments out especially those that could conceivably be brought to trial for medical malpractice.
    I freaked and left the forum because I was afraid the issues could have been possibly identifiable.
    All I can think of is a class action suit or some sort of human / civil rights prosecution. Other than Tina M ‘s workor the ECT case I don’t see that happening.
    I also have been called on and never ever ever want to endure that type of torture again in the time remaining in my life.
    If there were a way to safely tell someone or some group I would do it in a heartbeat. Not only do I like Cat have the memories, I have the professional experience to tell everyone what they were doing was not only professionally unethical and immoral but tstntsmount to human torture in the guise of so called help which only for the profit for a few. My guess is the staff Sunday gettin paid well either and have their own issues and the company finds this out and keeps them quiet. It is bacically a concentration type framework utterly disguised and hidden in almost plain view. They were smarter this time, they deliberately decided not use the chimneys.

  • Craig this is just brilliant and genius. I really wish this had been out when I started working in the MH system.
    This is also great for those that I know who have chosen to take chemicals. I would tell them read this read that but this is clarity for visual learning.
    And Cat – I so appreciate your 12 step viewpoint. The old timers were anti – drug and yes they were right.
    The big Pharma folks created moral injury to us all.

  • Positive writing about the good that can happen in life can never really be critized in terms of the intent and the experience that allowed good to flow.
    However being this is MIA where folks in the field and front lines on both sides meet and converse it is a bit of a sticky wicket for me and perhaps others.
    Trauma is part of this site and how humans in today’s world try to cope with their own and the meta layers we all live with.
    The most painful part of my life as lived from within the MH system as inpatient and outpatient was the experience of a lack of caritas and agape in the system.
    As terrible as my experience was, I was aware of my family’s live but it was clear they didn’t know WHAT to do and were grasping at the ONLY STRAWS that were available.
    The poly pharmacy and psychotropics or neurotoxins – take your pick
    Blunted and dampened my own emotional self do love for my self and others became an abstract term and life situation. I am never sure if I had ECT but I do have Swiss cheese memory but love because of several treatment professionals and inpatient conditions CUT out love.
    Many many folks on both sides of the MH have trauma in its many forms. One can never forget that male aid my be an abuse survivor possibly with an addiction issue and behind on his rent. He just has the keys and someday or maybe earlier did not.
    The fact that it seems we humans continue on and struggle to either gain or get back the ability to live in all its forms over and over and over again is amazing to me.
    Studies in relegion have shown an interesting connection to how children imagine god to how they see their parents. If one is not exposed to love early on in some way how can one love others in return?
    Then there is Father Zorissima’s sp? quote from “Brothers Karamazov” about love in action which is so vitally needed now.
    “ The Little Prince” and others keep me going in these times.
    It would just be nice to have Peter come down from his perch. When one lives their life sitting on the catbird seat it behooves one to realize we ain’t all sitting there.
    PS Going to grad school there were many shrink wives going back to school so they could join their husband’s practices. They would come to class and talk about not getting the project done because daughter had a baby. Understandable but there is this edge and I have always struggled with their relationship together. Cloe Mendes and Jay Haley or Salvador Minuchin come to mind. One was once married to the other.
    So there is that undercurrent as well. Boundaries even the most well meaning sets off uneasiness in me but I know it happens a lot in private practices. And thereby hangs another tale.

  • I have found this site to be extremely helpful on the journey to a better life and as a retired social worker it has helped me integrate and process what I was seeing and experiencing in the field.
    I would suggest that this site needs the perspectives of all involved because I think what we are dealing with is an octopus and it has many tentacles and is well hidden and very hard to either trap and or kill.
    One of the most interesting facts I read lately was the Newsweek article of the 2990’s which was part of a push for drugs campaign. This makes so much sense and yes not only did we buy into drugs as only true response ( and I was skeptical and still slid into the system for myself and others) and meds as the real true and only silver bullet.
    To undo this all will take years and probably decades. This is similar to sex abuse in institutions- the tentacles were allowed to grow and grow and grow unchecked.
    The issue of silence is important here. There are legal ways of silence and making victim’s voices totally taboo.
    If one knows about abuse, offenders at personal, community, institional systems do a great job and making sure silence is not only enforced but continued.
    There are layers of offending from both the for profit and non profit systems and most folks are caught but they don’t even know about the octopus they are feeding. This is true on both sides of the desk.

  • Thanks Chaya I second Alex’s response.
    Maybe add all children who are labeled which expands the area. That MI term whatcha goin to do?
    Coming from a parent yes.
    The act and process of labeling has many threads from school, from an educator, from a family member, from a doc, from a friend, from one’s self.
    In educational terms to get actual help from the school system one is forced into labeling.
    No MFI- no IEP and ah the school districts get different amount of money levels depending on the label.
    Then labeling can vary from one doc to another,
    These area areas that deserve much work and reporting. Those without resources have the hardest time dealing with the system. And there is an inherent basis against those parents with those children.
    If you could go and one is allowed with the parents request to go as support to an IEP meeting wow! And FYI in terms of forced hospitalization the IEP is a legal document and parents have rights and not sure about the child but the goal was if possible st the end have the child be part and involved in the entire process.
    PTA’s have no path for parents with children who are labeled. Privacy is a real legal issue. I would write s newsletter going out to? for parents with IEP kids- no names. What most did not know there was a lovely parent who would type and edit my writing. Even back before being in system I had dyslexia and ect issues. The drugs and the docs never ever asked made it so much worse and the lingering Parkinsonism has hurt me with communicating my thoughts and ideas.
    So I would be known but not everyone had the full story in the community or wanted to divulge how they knew. No I got your newsletter thank you. Never.
    DW Winnicut Good enough/ that’s all a parent needs to be. Let them know that- almost what you are doing but a name can lend prestige.
    Title I used to have a parent support group included with Social Workers and no labeling.Another research direction.
    And acknowledge trauma and histories. And again, mst of the best people that have come out of this world of ours have been gloriously imperfect.

  • George, I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter. I have known many relatives of folks who have decided to let go of life and it is hard because we have a great taboo about talking about this part of life.
    And trying to get help and not realizing that the help was mostly a sham. Those of us psych survivors and our family members again run into another great taboo. Silence can be con ie this but it hurts in the short and long term.
    There is also the issue of abuse and I have no idea where your daughter was in that issue. My grade school had a cluster of suicides but it was a Catholic school and there were issues but who know?
    I appreciate your courage and please keep in exploring and learning.
    My idea is to have trauma centers that are available 24/7 to all with all sorts of support and separate from any medical connection.
    Everyone could use it.
    Take care of yourself and read the old stuff I Trauma there are some gems in the dust.

  • I haven’t listened yet but two thoughts. I am glad there are folks who have the memory of the past with Dr Mosher and Soteria House.
    Second thought Selma Fraiberg MSW did this type of work with mother’s- the father’s in my Program fee and far between. Home visits in some ways can be helpful but ah looking from the psych survivor viewpoint maybe not.
    Third party/ neutral sites were always an option.
    Folks need help and parents in today society just are not given the best tools and stress is all around and kids have that most excellent radar and sonor to detect when parents are especially vulnerable.
    Families need support from nuclear through and including the community and nation where they abide.
    There was the beginnings and then they got smashed down but good. I saw it happen and then became ensnared myself.
    Some day I hope Open Dialogue and memories of good help which were thrown out in the bath water can be gathered together and rise through the yuck.Look forward to listening. Thanks for this I will be interested to see how home visits fare after the travesty of ACT.

  • Jay you started to lose me with the title and then with all the different stats. I appreciate your efforts.
    When I was an inpatient psych unit social worker and having been involved in a new sexual abuse team service – I started asking the folks if they had abuse and or trauma in their histories almost to a one they had experience or experiences. This reflects what Dr Bessel van dear Klerk did on his own as well.
    So if research is using DSM dx and the diagnostic process is becoming more and more fraudulent then why put all the work and time and effort in rebuttal instead of just saying / especially with twins- we need the real experts- twins, their parents, their siblings, their teachers, their friends to explain why this and not that.
    Margret Mead had the bright idea of field studies and if you really want to know about twins a nice longitudal study might work.
    I would ask why?
    There are so so so many issues that needfurther exploration and research this seems like a scientific red herring.
    The two issues that do come to mind our twin loss and disability issues in sets of twins.
    Other than that – please look into trauma, sexual abuse, power and control in the mental health systems.
    Thanks for the work. I hope it helps out somehow.

  • Steve,
    It has been known for some time that family dysfunctionalities can create short and or long term issues which overlap with all the isms and basic structure of one’s life.
    Anxiety is just one manifestation of one human’s response to life- though I also would posit one’s temperament also plays a role but that interaction is like trying to figure out quantum theory- humans are not there yet.
    There once was an ancient emperor who devised an experiment using infants. Some where handled and touched others were not. The infants that were fed but not touched all died.
    Some folks say anxiety and fear can also be signals. I think this is also true. We are as humans are not in a very good space.
    I remember having a panic attack in the 1990’s and literally driving to an activist friend’s house out to state because I felt in my bones and soul as Miss Cavel would say from the Madeleine stories – Something is not right.
    She confirmed my sense and it was helpful to have had that interaction. Worth more than any, any minute or hour of talk therapy or any medication.
    So it is a very tangled trauma web we have all woven for ourselves.
    And so many are doing the see no evil, say no evil, hear no evil layers of denial.
    The rich created s scheme that really has greatly benefited them from insurance to Pharma ect ect
    And why would they stop what has worked so well?
    My sense as a child with benefits was despite the turmoil of the 1960’s there was still a modicum of human caring around me. If the neighborhood kids were playing ball in the street and a car came someone would always call heads up.If I was riding my bike and fell someone would – be it child or adult help out.
    There was a community fabric. In some places more in others places less but it was there.
    One of the negative fall outs of desegregation was the inherent problematic design flaw.
    School principals who were from the communities were not kept with the schoolchildren so part of the fabric was ripped that along with almost flaw designed other issues ended up hurting children and families instead of really really leveling the playing field.
    I just hope someday we can begin to turn around and undo and my guess is the need for so called “ help” will dissipate.

  • I wanted to try to comment on several threads.
    One is women pushing women to take drugs or “ get help.”
    Yes, I have experienced that- specifically the wife of a doctor sending my mother named of shrinks. I don’t think she had any knowledge of my social work career. At that time, my only sister was terminally ill with metatastic cancer and had three small children and my father had a severe disability. I will always have a hard time with forgiveness with her “ only trying to help” moment.
    And yes unknown to her and friends I had already gotten scheduled for support.
    They did an a surprise intervention and it was the last straw on the camel’s back and to this day there is the time before andnthe time after.
    Not what I would ever ever done as a professional or to my worst enemy.
    There is also the artist / musician access to drugs connection that OH brought up.
    So many many folks died young and or so impaired from their best selves.
    The story of Paul Robeson comes to mind because he was given forced ECT. And he once had been absolutely brilliant.
    John Howard Griffts in his closing of “ Black like Me,” mentions the pervasive fear. Nowhere I know it came partly from lynchings. He could have been easily lynched. And what else?
    Alice Miller – I just discovered she was a refugee from WWII. I knew from Germany but not the fact she lived in a ghetto.
    So much that was done and is being done.

  • I would chose one of the caves that has the primitive drawings.There are some neat documentaries about them. Also the young adult novel City of Embrr used that theme. However utopias like Brookland and others have a very hard time surviving humans being humans. I would suggest an island so that several communities could try to thrive in parallel.
    Some monastic communities have and still are doing okay.
    Plum Village and the Taize folks also come to mind.
    Morris West “Clowns of God” trends and treads on this theme as well.
    L’Arche and Catholic Worker homes are another option.
    There are many relegious groups that use volunteers and offer communal or quasi communal living.
    Ah but past history at established places is an Issues for psych survivors.
    Lois Lowery ‘s “ Gathering Blue” is part of a cool quartet to read and comes with others choosing each other.
    It would be interesting to try to do something if money could be found. A three year plan of cave cliffs or whatever could give lots of information and help those of us cope with our empathy.

  • The old plan with a new twist would be start with his feelings. Acknowledge fears. Do some Beryl Rothschild techniques with sensory motor aspects of calming and coming into the present.
    Then tak a what Fritz Redl would call a time life space interview and try to find the source of the anxiety and or trauma and or trauma trigger. This could take hours so maybe s walk outside some coffee and some food. Another choice could be calling on your friends Peer Irganization Liasin to do this Sometimes degrees literally mean nothing.
    If a cause or conditions can be identified if the fear and tangled trauma thinking is lessened and oh yes
    Tangled trauma thinking in this state NO HUMAN can function on a totally logical or rational basis.
    Then the choice could be the friendly 24 hour trauma center for community and more support and or the friendly respite house. And really WHAT DOES HE WANT OR SEE as needs.
    Putin a limb 24 something to help but last last resort.
    Of course this is not insurance or NAMI family friendly though if one could ever change their thinking –
    And your professional administration and the MBA hospital set could be up in arms not to mention the staff around you that are APPALLED simply APALLED that you are not probating here and now.
    The resources and knowledge base is present but the systems and ALL or many of the folks are resistant to change.
    I walked away when it got to unbearable.

  • Thanks for this. It still doesn’t make sense. In 1984 at Smith College Summer CEU they had Rubin Blank a developer of Ego Psychology with his wife Gertrude talk about his own toddlerhood in which he was so troublesome his family would refer to him as Rubin the Terrible. He did it with love and humor and explanation of children needing to explore and deal with theirbgrowing sense of all the boundaries imposed by them in the world. At times, no is actually a good thing to know how to say. He also made a point that the families were are born into are our families. It is our life’s work to learn to cope with them. No matter how we wish they would not be our families it is part and parcel of us. Bad or good or indifferent.
    Selma Fraigberg’s The Magic Years goes into this thinking.
    Trauma was known to some professionals , I guess not enough to stop the tide. Still how did this happen?
    And yes the other causes beside and or including trauma. Noise pollution, air pollution, chemical exposures. Rachel Carson found multiple examples thought the earth’s environs and did not have any background in psychological anything- if we had a modern day Rachel Carson looking into the equivalent of chemical toxins and yes visual artists are exposed all the time- look at possibly Van Gogh? Abd prescription drugs what would she find? And would she be allowed to go forth?
    Serpico? And have there been others who were stopped by the vargities of life and our world as we know it?
    C Henry Kempe a WWII refugee from Germany exposed child abuse. It helps to have a survivor’s experience to think out of the box. And Salk whatever concerns some have with vaccines – do you know he received no profit from his patent PER HIS REQUEST. A true caring person. Some professionals are not worthy to clean his shoes- truly.

  • The concept of legal recourse to seizure for assessment – yes. The ability to call for a mental health check has no conditions or regulations and no downside for the person calling. It has a huge downside for the one called on. Thanks so much treatment advocacy center!
    The Stanley Family is a source of funding for the center.
    There are so many many ways to handle folks either in cris or assumed to be in crisis. Police intervention can not only lead to trauma but death. And my thoughts are the police are not willing participants. They would prefer not to be involved and do actual safety protection. Plus they have their own trauma issues. Suicide rates for police, med students, vets are rising.
    This is just one tip of a largely hidden iceberg.
    The problem is it is so hard to fight. If one gathers for a food fast one and all are both liable for forced legal and medical intervention.

  • Thanks Robert. I remember a time when working at a university connected teaching Hospital was a actual learning experience for interns, residents, and staff. Critical thinking and analytical questioning were prized. It could be a conduit for a cracking open of the walls of the medical industrial governmental corporate industry.
    I brought my medical ethics prof to our Social Work rounds and he eventually was hired by a leading medical institution but his voice literally disappeared. Ethics should be involved in every aspect of medicine from school and beyond.
    One of the conditions in a ground round I attended was Pellegrea sp? Nutrition based emotional issue. My guess like Lyme Disease, Lupus, and other issues one is seeing only a fragment of the whole. The 12 blind men and the elephant meta metaphor comes to mind.
    They should have had in the best practice of academia comparison and contrast in research. They should have personal accounts from all perspectives, and their should have been an art/ media retrospective of treatment including survivor accounts both nonfiction and fictional.
    This is where Bonnie’s book needs to be in- all the bibliographies from medical, nursing, pt, ot, rd education and into alll the community college courses.
    The psych departments should also have tumor boards and all that goes with inpatient medical work at an academic teaching center.
    There was one patient and I have heard other accounts of both benign or malignant tumors causing supposed “ psych” symptoms.
    You could put your name in for a presentation next year. You have the status. And even if it’s for nursing assistants it is a seed or a weed which ever metaphor works for you.
    Cover it with a trendy title and then at least create a ground work for critical thinking.
    “ Splendor in the Grass” would be benign but give folks a what is wrong with now type of view. Doesn’t have to be big or flashy.
    I would love to see if you could pull this idea off.

  • Thanks for this. And aucontrare OH. In many ways the inpatient system has involved to actually be more nefarious and henious than in the 1970’s and other times. I am writing this having read the writings of those forced into insulin shock treatments and knowing and having to have dealt with a person who was a rape baby from their mother’s instiutilization and should they connect or not?
    My own experience post 9/11 was as awful as documented here. Any treatment a joke, severe restriction on movement, incarceration rather than treatment. There are no Day rooms anymore. The for profit industry has spread their tentacles all over the system from hedge funds who own city ambulance services to the most minimalist type of staffing where employees are required to be ignorant of any past best practices.
    In the roller coaster projection of treatment throughout time we are almost and in the juvenile justice system and criminal institution back to shackles on the wall. Dungeons and dragons are now real.

  • Yes! I read the book. It is a twofer for females! Pain and or DSM dx in ten minutes or less. Also the whole ignorance of the female physical experience. Has any female ever ever was asked what was or is your puberty experience and or who would actually want to disclose to some of the treating docs any way.
    Also the repression of sexuality so that gender almost becomes meaningless.
    Thanks for bringing this up. Books need to be written. And check treatment advertising! Women are the prime targets.
    And why are females in this movement more hidden than not?

  • Thanks for this Lawerence.
    This is another example of cross currents in medicine that have gone badly and how corruption and greed infiltrated the entire medical system.
    Insurance, education, and research modalities created further opps for abuse.
    The Sackler Family is worth a research effort.
    Back in the day folks with Sickle Cell Anemia and terminal cancer had true hard pain issues. It was a dilemma and people experienced terrible pain.Other conditions also had pain management nightmares.
    This happened parallel to and at almost the same time as psychisyry’s change into bio psychiatry.
    For both crisises there are alternative treatment and coping modalities. But there mostly are not funded by insurance, are scattered around and usually only work through individual trial and error and many times even if they work are too expensive to continue long term.
    Triple that level to pediatric populations.
    Good Living Through Chemistry. Right.
    My relatives and I found pain management docs a joke.
    Some found help with anti- depressants Truly.
    It’s just a gargantuan mess in capitol letters written in flashing neon colors.
    I would like to see Insurance Companies investigated as well as medical and professional schools investigated, private and profit hospitals addiction and Psychiatric programs, the entire range of owners of big Pharma and should shareholders pay a price for the deaths involved?
    The legal profession and government should be investigated as well. How many NDA’s are there floating around?
    And what other wealth strong arms with pens and legalcompandiums have negotiated silences from folks?
    Some folks do need help with pain. Some folks need help with trauma or perhaps other issues. They all and we all should have the right to have competent and humane medical and no medical treatment options.
    And the children- a real chance to live well and prosper.
    Sales reps told docs it was nonadictive, they in turn told their patients but the big lies create hell. And so many families are living in hell.

  • Well Oldhead amends can mean many things on a spectrum or actually going off the spectrum to start a new paradigm.
    Suffering and trauma and altered realities whether by a spiritual or another means all will still be here even if and when psychiatry is changed, destroyed, altered, or ended.
    Healing of human souls is paramount.
    How we go about that in global, national, regional, or local areas depends on what voices are the loudest.
    History is written by the victors so how to achieve that?
    According to recent books and articles I have read- manuscripts and letters were destroyed by wars and aggressive relegious frictions of all sorts. There has been much that was lost or suppressed.
    One needs not only to have a game book but a game plan as well. Unless one has those essential tool along with funding and some ability to wield power nothing will happen. We can talk or write but that doesn’t change things.
    I still posit there are people in the system who could help.

  • It’s been interesting to read everyone’s thoughts. I found Fromm’s work around college and grad school and was intrigued. I tried to use it for Agra’s school course and received an failing grade and just ended up rewriting what the prof wanted or needed to hear.
    In sacred literature and philosophy there are shades and shades of definitions of the word live. Agape, caritas, Eros and others.
    Companssion and having the ability to truly connect with anotber’s suffering is an absolute requirement for shamans or any in the helper role.
    This is so sadly sadly lacking in our word today and in the MH system or any so called service profession.
    I can consider writings such as Fromm or sacred literature or any other thinking work or artistic creation as touchpoints or touchstones.
    Every culture has them and they can be at times traced to the extreme past which is so interesting.
    Doesn’t mean we agree or disagree they actually are ah! A Good Trigger or set of Triggers!
    Talk about missing the boat or mark! The blatant focus on me, myself, and I, the igornace of human history, and “ Wallstreet” the movie prime directive of “ greed is good” have been swallowed hook, line, and sinker, by many.
    The old primary source writings sometimes reveal a different wisdom more embracing of kindreneess of all and insight to suffering to occurs in all its many many forms as a key to connection rather than hate.
    Psychiatry as in other institutions not only needs to acknowledge the awfulness of treatment, make appropriate and sincere apologies, and then appropriate and real ongoing amends.

  • Dear Cheri, thanks so much for this. It is more than past time that you as a person and as a cohort of peers come out in to full view.
    So much to unpack here for my own narratives and as a micro – macro- and meta narrative of trauma as it has been conceptualized by Medical, governmental, and other systems some more corrupt and self serving than others.
    We are all patented by trauma survivors. Any person who has or had a parent who survived Concentration Camps, DP Camps, Refugee Camps, War even those on the so called winning side and especially those children of vets or who were raised by nurses after their trauma in the WWII Philippines and Brit civilians in the Pacific Theater and after, there are so many incidences as many unfornately as stars in the sky. Can you imagine parenting after having a loved one killed by lynching?
    That there are survivors at all is something to honor in and of itself.
    Before my time in system – irony all of my life is irony- I created, developed, and implemented a program for children in the MH Clinic where I worked. For some reason, it was taken away from my control. Though one of the workers hired admitted to me her mother had issues with parenting and some sort of trauma. She did not last long and the program seemed to disappear as well.
    I also was involved in a parenting program which tried to address trauma and parenting using Selma Fraiberg’s work. Her essay , “ Ghosts in the Nursery” is old but worthwhile reading and should be in any educational syllabus for training any type or level of professional in the system. That it is not, is beyond comprehension.
    During my time in system both in and out of places – your story of children touched by the system in almost an immoral corrupt way and family matters as a nonissue, deliberately ignored was so very true.
    And what was I to do with my knowing anger? It was beyond BS for me and others but to speak and challenge was only punished by more drugging and more punishment.
    As a family, we have never processed in any shape or form what happened to me. Nada – nothing- SILENCE.
    I have learned to hate because of all of this. But I REFUSE to let hate rule my life. NO.
    I have spent thousands of dollars and still silence from all of the professionals I have tried to work with. So I exist and do what I would tell the kids I worked with, tell and tell and tell again.
    One’s voice becomes weak with the telling, one’s fear rises as one has had to deal with police intervention – illegal and uncalled for- so I exist and hope someday those involved with my own narrative and others will be brought to justice or the truth will come out and be exposed.
    Thanks again. And BTW your take on NAMI is on target. Ah trauma when it goes underground it creates minefields for all. They have their own issues and have fallen and are not allowed to get up and see.

  • Rachel , I always am interested in your thoughts. Yeah I know we were duped big time. And I totally understand your self loathing. Been there done that. Depends on the day, depends what triggers I am forced to endure. Drive past the hospital ect ect ect and just that could drive folks into trauma.
    12 step programs deal with your feelings. Just lie say your an addict and leave it at that or do CODA.
    Stick with the old folks they know their stuff and yes they know exactly how you feel. Our issue is we were totally no responsible – we were just seeking help- not a crime. Bessel van der Klerk has states church sex abuse victims have an extreme self loathing – kind of the same dynamic.
    NB Noel – Writing is good but engage and do. Talk is worthless without action.

  • I am shocked just shocked at these redearchers’ conclusions. Really? SES and other migrating factors may impinge on the well being of folks broadly either possibly depending on the statistical level of significance of their lives?
    Have they not read or were taught James Agee’s “ Let Us Now Praise Famous Men”?
    Have they not read or were taught Harriette Arnow’s“ The Dollmaker”
    Have they not been exposed to or taught about Jacob Riis sp? Photographic expose of immigrant children?
    Have they not seen or been taught both “ Brother from Anotber Planet” and “Matewan” John Sayles excellent film narratives of folks in the lower SES levels of America?
    Have they not been exposed to all of the past and current art forms of all kinds from all cultures and genders that have been documenting this aspect of our country that many do not want to acknowledge or if they do acknowledge the graphs, diagrams, formulas, and advanced analytical equations use their suffering for their own personal, economic, guild, and academic enrichment and immoral- unethical gains.
    Way too little, way , way to late.

  • Thanks Noel. I find this a nefarious tactic and almost perp like. Use something legitimate but abscound with the money and goods.
    I refused to look at the latest DSM when given a chance. In the other ones there was a axis about stress and life events. It was there but never ever used.
    Now folks see trauma as a profit engine.
    BTW folks should read up on the Sound if Music family. There were issues like in all families and one member was ill used by the MH system.
    I am still waiting for the use of the system to be shown to be used by corrupt other systems. Andrew Greeley had a thinly disguised mystery novel where a priest who had uncovered church malifiesence was remanded to a Psych. Unit.
    The system needs an entire inside out reform.

  • Eric, I am so sorry and hope to hear about a positive outcome.
    Stephan G yes the Day Treatment – Old Partial Hospitalization programs are a good example of professional “ babysitting”
    Waste of time for all. I don’t know who was more bored the staff or us clients. Both were cigs in the system.
    Developmental Disability programs at least back in the day had better program planning. But once back in the day some MH Clinics did do more. Depended on staff.
    Also the Green Door Program in DC with the club format. But then was then, this is now and it’s like looking back at former leaders of our country and thinking wow maybe they were better than I thought because the now leaders are beyond reprehensible.

  • I found the docs who endured military service like WEII ect. have had more of a wider perspective and heart. Not all but some.
    Now it seems that the system of getting to medical school is rigged. Parents pay for tutors in preschool just to keep their kid in the upper mix. And how are any “ othered” folks ever going to fight such an entranced secret system?
    As soon as you walk in the door of an upper class PTA meeting – by your skin color, by your dress, by your accent. And if heaven forbid you fit “ the criteria” if your child is in the special needs stream oh my oh my oh my. Actually some of the best teachers are in Special Ed- I you are lucky to get one of the good ones wow. Not all but I did put my other kids in a tracked classroom because of how good the team of teachers were. Those kids deliberately dumbed themselves down so as not to get put in the other stream.
    Lots of kids in the advanced classes ran into trouble. Sometimes med students and residents as well. Not enough life discomfort.
    Medicine is a contract between community and folks in the community. For multiple reasons including several systems that are corrupted that contract seems to have been smashed to smithereens.
    I would love to have a transgender doc, or First Nation, or African American, or Huspanic- anyone who has lived life with no rise colored glasses in. I would trust them and take their advice and really ponder it instead of in the first three minutes of a new pt interview want to get up and leave.
    At least in other medical types there is a chance for running into a possible good one. Psychiatry is less and one is hardly ever believed- at least for me in my time on the other side of the desk. I worked with some caring ones back in the day before bio took hold- also know it wasn’t all pretty for many- but never had one that helped only hurt. Some tried but their efforts still damaged.
    I want docs who lived through stuff in al specialties.
    I knew of one resident who got into trouble for referring too many of the patients to Social Services- just discharge planning, nothing else- not billable you know.
    Holly Nesr has an old song” It Could have been me…”
    I think she needs to rewrite it and title-
    “ It has been most of us and now we Rise Together”
    I just don’t know how to make it happen. By having been taken off the streets and forced treated my fear stands in my soul. I do not know anymore. Blocks and walls and I don’t have the wherewithal to surmount them anymore.

  • Thanks for replying. I guess with my former professional hat on- there are so many layers and is not whether one has been traumatized it’s the whole story.
    The lack of female trauma experts is a concern and the lack of other gender types as experts.
    Selma Fraiberg MSW from U of Michigan did trauma work with mothers. The MH business like society has femanized or otherized trauma denies it and it moths into craziness.
    How many mothers in the CPS system were abused and victimized by men? I still am traumatized by a clients last words to me indicting her father to the abuse of herself as a young girl after blowing up after two years of work. She wasn’t able to talk as I wasn’t in my time in the system and still am or feel constrained.

  • Interesting thoughts Bob. It’s refreshing to hear a professional discredit the DSM and yes the DSMII was different.
    I am not sure about the stroke analogy and um the reference to the mums. My guess is paternal or paternal like actors play a role in abuse. Easier to get angry at a female- and why is that?
    Also racism et al is also is trauma inducing in and of themselves. Inter generational personal, family, culture, gender is another damn layer.
    And economics! Macro and micro!
    And the environment!
    But thanks for your thinking! And I would really like to hear your own story.
    We are all trauma victims but ah so important to go beyond into better things.
    Did the folks in the system agree to see you? That would be helpful to know. Also were any released? Because any type of incarceration is trauma.
    The best thing you were able to elucidate for me was trauma’s impact.
    There is enough trauma is life when other types of trauma are either allowed and or made to occur that in and of itself is a divine human tragedy.

  • Well all, of course Ghandi was imperfect as Jesus, as Vera Britten, as Rabbi Hillel,
    Victor Frankel, Corrie Ten Boom, Dorothy Day, . The importance is not their flaws, their importance was/ is that they spoke out. Some better than others, some less hypocritically than others. There are no saints on this earth.
    Some people like Dr Peter Goertze speak out.Some do as Stephan Gilbert has chosen.
    The only option I have found for myself is to tell my story to chosen people and groups. And it was as far as I can tell a random shout in the dark. But I followed what I would tell the kids I worked with to tell and tell and tell until someone listens and hopefully either can or will act. No guarantees just the knowledge that there usually are some sort of good folk around. But luck is a crucial element.
    Oh my Dr Torrey talk about wrong way Corrigan – perfect example of TROUBLE.
    The force that drives the fuse.
    I just hope someday we can have a counter force that drives the fuse of our own.

  • I always enjoy reading Sandra’s work. She is thinking!
    I think as survivors we can’t always make all professionals whipping posts for our very justified anger and rage.
    This WHOLE movement is a process and there are fits and starts and fits and starts.
    As much as the Nazi’s in Germany and other repulsive regimes with their minions are completely reprehensible to me. I also know there were those who tried to help. Some did amazing things and were killed, others did little and still were killed, and others lived on.
    Every time we blanket our thinking it stops as Leonard Cohen put it so well we need to acknowledge that it helps that other humans let the light come in through the cracks.
    And I will stand my ground with stating every every corrupt system has cracks.

    The other issue is there is no good alternative yet. If you are rich maybe but jus maybe because professionals can take advantage of the rich.
    Who btw is “ treating” Kayne West?
    Hell of a job?
    Where is a person who cares about the little boy that he was and what he lived through? No language but a cry that is unheard and labeled mental illness.
    So there are few open doors and windows which makes the field like living in Germany knowing about the camps or just after the Allies came in and what does one do?
    The ability for funding and creation of true supports is ALWAYS iffy.
    British Military Medical Staff knew about trauma because they had no choice but to return soldier suffering from battle faitigue to the front. It worked but after the war ended- No more soldiers needed at the front lines do it was all forgotten to the detriment to all of us.
    So while we are in movement and there still is no way to Adequetely heal from the malpractice and abuse we suffered we have to slug on and anger even the best and most justified can end up a burden. MLK Jr. and Ghandi and Vera Britten and others knew rage and because they knew it so very well they choose the nonviolent path.
    So don’t stop wring criticisms just maybe doing something somehow. May not be realistic but I speaking for me, can’t totally turn off others when they are trying. If we do turn off others we are uncomfortable about or maybe they are a trigger- so many ways of walks
    I don’t want to be as rigid as the Nazis and other tyrants my way or the high wayor for many in contact with them
    death. Or the parents who says when I say jump the only question you can ask is how high?
    Allies are important even if you don’t totalky see eye to eye.

  • The Deaf Community ran into quite a large number of issues in the MH system. One of my graduate school placements was at a pact unit with a significant deaf population. One could be labeled psychotic with a mere misunderstanding of the type, kind, or dialect of sign.
    Interestingly , Joanne Greenberg who wrote “I Never PromisedYou a Rose Garden” had many writings based on the Deaf community. “ In This Sign” a heart wrenching read.An excellent intersectional meme or metaphor for this topic of Fanon.

  • Sascha, Interesting thoughts. With your MSW are you in a peer role? Does your written job description require lived experiences and does it require a graduate degree? If the agency recognizes your graduate degree what is the pay scale for you compared to other peer support folks? Same or different?
    Are peer support roles used as babysitters? Keep them quiet til the Crisis Unit or Pilice arrive? Or do you do actual support ie yoga classes, meditation classes, nutrition or can you do how to walk away classes? What about anyone taking a trauma history? What about inter generational trauma issues?
    Are you allowed to speak about discontinuing meds? Are you allowed to get folks bro bono legal help?
    What about those folks with children? Where are they and how are they?
    I did Peer involvement to meet folks. I had one job but kept very very quiet. My local area is almost all NAMI enforced thinking though I just want informed choice at this point because so many are not open and are so ignorant of history.
    The local peers seemed very constrained and most are not aware of any other options. At a meeting only one other perso an addiction counselor knew of Robert’s work. Job Kabat Zin was a new name for many. Many took the job because so what are you going to do? And like me maybe a possibility of sharing and small human connection and contact.
    Each two places with their folks disappeared and the job was too dicey.
    I found the system as a LISW too broken to ethically work in. And I found NASW local and national regions to be of very little help and or support.
    My most wow type memory before being in the system but working for an agency was when in a staff meeting the African American psychiatrist asked if anyone would be willing to take either Haldil or a similar drug – just to see.
    Silence and I would guess fear. That says it all.
    And BTW my guess is that there are invisible peers who are in treatment and or in meds but are not “ out.”
    This maybe the biggest stumbling block of all – what webs we weave when we first practice to deceive.

  • Steve
    Thanks. The most help I have found is through just folks that have been in the system. But for me I also had another life and have lived other paths before, during, and after my time in system.
    Having a more non mainstream look at the system plus some folks stigmitism in the past makes it difficult. To pretend or not to be pretend is the question. Much of the time I have difficulty doing either.
    Breathing and walking and other alternatives help but to thrive and get back to where I was and that journey in and of itself was not easy. This site and some peer meetings have been helpful but there needs to be more.
    Aeopisciplian authority given by the people to medical professionals is a legal and social contract. There had to be a way to break or call
    BS to contract that harm.
    I await it’s coming.

  • My other thought is that enuf with trying to figure out comprehendthe other side.
    What would be really helpful to me asa psych survivor is a framework – a compass rose- some rituals or paths others have used to not only walk away but continue on and if at all possible thrive in some way.
    Reading some of my medical records by myself was almost a revictimization. Talking to others is a literal crapshoot because so many upon hearing your real life story use “ that voice” of now but very effective othering.
    And again I have come from a lucky spot.
    How to live with the memories?And they come up at various times unwillingly.
    EDMR okay but my myriad of issues and practioner change to require meds changed that option for me.
    The anger of knowing how I treated folks and the trauma of not in any way shape or kind in return at certain times stillrankles and the inability to dialogue and understand where and why and how these practioners treated me as they did is at times an existential agony.
    Anger ultimately is only helpful on a short term basis but forgiveness that is one sided can be achieved intellectually with effort but is hard to retain and unless one is truly a wisdom healer never enough to change life paths in an effective way.
    The geographic cure can work but again the issue of memory.
    At this time we are seeing memory come up for sex abuse , and. othering and abuse in our nation or world history,but not psych . There have been so much too so many in ALL areas.But a mee too movement for us? Or is that beyond the Pale?
    How can we help ourselves bind our own and other’s traumas?
    To be effective activists especially now with so many arrests and physical and weaponized ( instruments of all kinds) WE need to walk in and move forward rather than do I what I have done – hide.
    One activists suggestedalways carry a second set of clothes so if your taken you have a change. I don’t WANT to be taken and until I have a modicum if some sort of resolution. No- no matter what. If I had not had my 15 years in the system, more than likely I would be out in full force for a variety of causes.
    I know one cannot give power to people but when the people still have the power what can one do?
    Getting of SSD but nine months and that track record hasn’t been reached though I have tried.
    School again? Two graduate degrees and my abilities are as sharp in the past and there were LD issues from birth.
    Volunteer one has to disclose or pretend.
    Inust want the freedom to be me and offer wheat ever small wisdom I have gathered.
    Anyone else have this need for resolution to move beyond?

  • Thanks Michael and Judi for the after comments.
    I would say another word for empathy maybe user and knower of human emotions- more of a phrase but it’s essentially the same idea.
    Samenow sp? in his writings of criminal minded folks – the real kind not the forced and contrive school to correctional system elitist pipeline – talked ofcomplete and utter comparentalization. There was no thread between their life just a series of moves of power and control.
    “Angels with Dirty Faces” is an interesting take on this as well as”Heart of Darkness”
    In my past work with offenders there were several type of folks- some were able to eventually move on past a predator mind set others not. Abuse and trauma were ever present in all of their histories.
    I think we see this mindset in almost all of our systematic institutions. Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Oscar Romero – Corrie Ten Boom, Miep Giess, Dorothy Day, Raul Wallenberg, Sr. Dorothy Stang,
    James Wendell Johnson, have been and there are now folks who at best died in the face of these forces
    or challenged the status quo. And throughout systems there have been so many deaths, so many silenced voices, so many possible great hope futures deliberately or by happenstance killed off.
    The predators know human beings well, so well and they as stated in Judi’s commentary take time for the set up. There are many – too many rape walks. A rape walk is when a perp prowls in invisibility around the home or workplace or whatever and sizes things up. They know fear and anger and anxiety. And are skilled in creating it and using it for their own purposes.
    My best guess is somewhere there was a choice made by them to go full throttle into this mindset.
    The problem is we as patients, or parishioners, or constituents, or consumers, can easily be gladhanded by these folks. And I have found despite my dissident professionalism I still was dragged down into the basement bowels of the psych system. My sense of intuition and trust shattered to the winds. And this is from someone on the at first other side of the desk. What the world has done to so many without my privelge is at times for me devastating.

  • Katherine, Interesting though the comments here are correct – this is old stuff and it pays to be sensitive to those who are reading. That being said who asked you to write it and submit?
    It is important to know the curve and trajectory of history but there are slot of gaps like maybe Bedlam? And the Dalem Witch Trails right up in your state. One reason was possible Ergot poisoning. That is worth a blog right there.
    I think one reading one of these articles it would help to know many many states had institutions like these and many are still alive who were in them or like mevisted and or did volunteer or fieldwork in them. All of the ruined buildings are places for the kids to go in and get scared.
    Matter of Fact there was a big movement just awhile ago about this very topic. Halloween and the insane asylum for fun and profit. No.
    The point on the graveyards.Just like in Ireland. I strongly recommend the movie about the Magdalene Laundaries – very unsettling but true. In Taum numbers and numbers of small bodies were found and I would be if a dig was done in an asylum some small bodies would be found as well.
    Also before writing I would suggest you do some research on the West African port city? that was the dispatching site for the Slave Trade. There are several good media pieces about African Americans walking through the holding rooms.
    I think this is still important as one day one hopes the well intentioned good and the horrors are catalogued as past history as the families and children who have been detained by our government will walk through the buildings and walk through not as refugees but as free people. The same with Rikkers and other heinous facilities.

  • Thanks for your thoughts and this type of information Lawerence.
    I was in a museum which housed an old drugstore and the old meds were infused with opiotes. From infants to the elderly much of the so called elixers were made out of addictive substances. The probation era did not focus on these but maybe those substances were outlawed?
    How did snake oil salesmen morph into Pharma reps and docs with a pen and a pad of paper?
    EugeneO’Neil highlighted the old addiction epidemic in “ Long Fsys Journey into Night”. Day not Fsys.
    One would think that drama would be essential medical school reading.
    One idea might be a new way of writing scripts that would make the physician admit to doing a thorough medical history and write down three possibles scenarios: outcomes of taking the medication and then it is informed consent and then the patient can decide.
    I would also like to see investigative journalism take on Pharm Reps and other Medical Sales Employees. The are on the front lines and did they not know what they were doing? No ability to see the local population as human beings? No ability to let the docs know their educational background? Any moral or ethical classes?
    Please write more history or research it for us? When did the tide turn back?
    Not sure about your concerns re universal health coverage. Again research andcomparision to Norther European countries. BTW Nursing Homes really started going well with Medicare/ Medicaid. Some folks use a good idea and utterly ruin it for their own nefarious benefit.

  • Yes I found that out as well. The history of the Rorschach Test is interesting/sad as well.
    Paul Robeson psychiatric treatment and suicide is another story that needs to be told. His son wrote about it and came to some interesting conclusions.
    Likewise Hemingway’s story has some perhaps unusual details as well.
    The Mad Hatter character in Slice in Wonderland is based on history facts.
    Workers in hat factories would go out of their minds very often. It was the chemical fumes that caused the mind alterations. I find that something to contemplate.
    I still think we all are the canaries.

  • Unable to LogIn on any other name.
    There was much non help in the past and currently. Luck of the draw. As in any maladaptive system there are always people who try to do their best and try to have a high standard. Then there are the others and more others.
    In sex offender training we had a video of a nurse in a children’s hospital who admitted to abusing kids with severe neuro issues precisely because – they wouldn’t tell.
    So at various times there would be winds, waves, of truth BUT NOT FOR LONG.
    This was before sex abuse really came out just at the beginning edge- the system folks didn’t want to deal with it and it still lies buried.
    There is the buried abuse of all kinds from sides on the floor – poorly trained, working just to survive with their own issues that they try hard to keep under roots and up the ladder. The worse for me is the administrators who don’t go on the floors, who make money pushing papers and are wined and dined by big Pharma.
    As a lowly medical social worker, I was dined ie lunch/ one time and never ever again I refused even Christmas gifts. Oh and there was one free baseball game and lunch for the Mental Health Center Staff. One time.
    Beer rounds on Friday afternoons for all the residents- it’s a story in and of itself. From pens, to fridge magnets, to Rum. Similar to the 1776 musical song-
    From Bibles to Rum to Slaves. YouTube it and insert the words nouns if your choice.
    I am truly sorry to you and all.I went in to change the system and became woefully victim of it.
    I did do some neat things. Out of the box but still stuff happened and the memories are part of the life I live now because no way to break them through formal or informal means. And who am I?
    Too many life experiences and any wisdom I did have or gifts lost.
    Again my apologies to those hurt.
    Nothing can take back the time or memories- in a truly just and or merciful world there would be a formal written apology, listening and grieving time, and some sort of compensation. Unfornately, I know of no Time Machine and the taking off if the masks and stopping if the dances st The Net and pleasure resorts seemingly will never happen.
    Make a list of those you have lost and send it to the CEO’s and CFO’s of Oharma and for profit psych hospitals and private prisons and juvenile detention or treatment centers.
    Send it to your local County MH board and DD board. The abuse and corruption is spread and anyone who is disabled is at risk for lowly or the worst high level Perps.
    Also the artists need to wake up. They fell in line and look what had happened. Just like me.

  • Actually in the world and all of its history there is always the tension between artist and systems. Dante was forced into exile. Kit Marlowe was killed.
    There are between the lines stories of many artists some mentioned here in this comment area. The more brilliant one is and wide seeing the more trouble an artist walks into. Stalin and his regime was very unkind to artists. How Boris Pasternak survived and his work broke free is another between the line tangle of story.
    Here in my area one has to play the game to survive. There is no room or even an iota of space for other nonsporoved opinions. One pretends and pretends or is hauled off or worse.
    Some are doubly or tripley unlucky with being an artist from less privelege and or othered classifications. DFW was white and male as were others. I am reminded of the play title “ For Colored Girls…….” Nina Simone and others who tangled and were tangled into knots. Tied so tight – ever after the trauma bound times by docs or other officials refused solace or comfort. And some -many lost their lives. And art dies.
    I once was in a educational parent council for parents of kids with “needs”
    Made it to possibly two meetings – childcare issues.
    Some of the women – and they were all women- were really interesting and I would – had there been childcare provided or help from the school district to continue on.
    However, there was a Mom I thought was great. A few weeks after it turns out she was abused and killed by some young men, Layers just layers of trauma here- whirlpools.
    From reading the accounts – it seems they had seen her daughter and scoped her out as victim. She must of sensed it and went to get car alone. She was abducted and my best guess is she refused to tell the offenders the location of her daughter and they killed her.
    To this day no one from the Parent Council ever did anything to honor or even understand what she did. I was aware because I worked with offenders in the court system in one of the many jobs before terteriary,secondary, and primary trauma and life as I live coincided. And the art I thought I could do and share is not a possibility.
    This could have been, this woman’s life could have been used to understand not only trauma but how humans lose the ability to care and have empathy for others. My guess is those offenders had hortirific stories of their own. And sometimes trauma can cause the choice towards awfulness and a life of awfulness until death. Poor or wealthy.
    We talk of suicide but that is a stillpoint or ending. It is an end cause and the various why’s are deep and wide. My guess is in that family relatives have thought of ending it all- the ripple affect.
    Writing about suicide doesn’t really help. Writing about the why of the whole so called helping world does a bit more. Callling out the acts of human bravery or kindness sheds light in a very dark world. Artist can feel the flow of the cold and or warm currents – see the stains in the water or the affect of sunlight on a calm dawn beach. We also tell uncomfortable truths or see them and live with them in the prison that we all share -the human mind.
    I request that if you read this comment offer up a moment of silence to this mom I knew for a brief shing hour or two. Do something for another person today- do something more than just common.
    Work on art or help or forgive someone and or maybe yourself.
    Cry for the hurting males who killed her perhaps. They were not born that way- they were made by our common nightmare human inhumanity to other humans. I have no doubt.
    And then can we break these chains we all have tied around ourselves? And just move out and beyond ourselves.
    In her honor I will be retiring my Catnight name
    Next time it will be my own name and damn the consequences- it can’t get any worse I have lived through it all and am still here.
    Best to all- Mary O’Malley psych survivor seclusion…….. all of it – and retired LISW with twenty years experience in trauma issues.

  • Lawerence, You have written about a searing issue in today’s world.
    As always I wear several hats on this issue.
    1) Having worked on a medical floor in Social Services pre opioid era there were huge pain issues for folks. Sickle Cell Anemia who mostly come out of an African American population base were sometimes not believed by some of the staff. Elderly folks with compressed spinal fractures were totally incapitated.
    So pain was a huge quandry on multiple levels.
    Pain used to be used as a diagnostic tool back in the day.
    Salk developed a vaccine for Polio. He refused any monetary gain. And why NOT others?
    How this all became so awful is still unbelievable to me. Who was supposed to be monitoring the ethics of ALL of this?

  • Well so much for true intersectional dialogue. Despite his reliance on diagnostic toolShaun at least takes time and energy to reply- thanks for that.
    I think this thread covers a lot of bases old and new.
    I would love to have some Vets speak and dialogue with them. Way backs out ten years ago a mother who lost a child to suicide was telling me about the suicide issue in the VA. I would submit unless you have been in country there is no way any one can get the experience and peer relationship might be very important but I don’t know.
    There is trauma but there is also the spiritual mindset but I don’t have a good sense of what is what. Druids use to intentionally create a psychotic type of experience. So there is that whole realm that is never accounted for by most professionals.
    There is the whole epigenetic issues of trauma generations in the making with the whole world of isms that so many people deal with and have to deal with still today. Lynchings and Detention Centers and forced marched exiles.
    It would be nice to hear a We have no idea and let’s do a remake with a three year review with everyone involved.
    Some folks are helped by mainstream folks and processes but that is a very narrow spectrum and why not use everything?
    Healing has always been needed because human life just ain’t easy.
    The corruption and sense of do harm rather than do no harm just needs to stop.

  • Stephan, I always reading your comments and I thank you for your well written manifesto.
    I have issues with peers support in some ways but you are witnessing in your work place. I am so sorry you are not seen as the gift that you are.
    You could easily be co- managing an unit and really shine.
    The fear of professionals has prevented so much good from happening.
    Why not Peerand Professional Managed Units at every hospital and do an evaluation of comparison and contrast?
    Of course the administration already fears the outcome and are barricading every level and type of access for any other option.
    Thanks for your work but I wish better for you and please take care of yourself.

  • Shaun, I am commenting on several of your thoughts.
    Any psych dx is a snapshot of someone in a moment -it does not hold true forever or in the next thirty minutes. A broke arm is a broken arm that can be seen on X Ray even after the body has been submersed in a bog centuries after death.
    So even the use of PSTD has concrete issues. In regards to your opinion that not all humans involved in war exhibit that label- it depends.
    The British Government had problems with returning vets in WWI – and during the war the military had an advanced program to treat soldiers who were suffering from so called battle fatigue- ah another problem with labels- they can change and fall in and fall conviently out of favor. The main aim of the program was not to resolve but to make them ready to return to battle. Any knowledge that was gained was either buried or lost.
    So although the returning vets did not fit a label of battle fatigue – there were no more battles- they were unemployed and had so called unruly issues. Wonder why?
    The government as so many institutions do too many many times gathered them to form a security force in Ireland which was in the midst of one of a zillion rebellions. They became the Black and Tans and wrecked havoc and further trauma on the Irish people – a so-called moral harm type of period.
    Trauma signs and symptoms does NOT neccesssrily be OVERT it can be subtle and life long and for those with either wealth, or power, or those with strong support networks, or those with a healthy environment, or those with a strong educational background, or those with a special talent or gift, or those with just sheer good luck, it can be there but not exposed and or kept in quietly or loudly hidden by themselves or others.
    The mass 1960’s youth movement where did that anger and energy come from? My guess is 90% had a parent or parents who were somehow directly negatively affected by WWII.
    Not speaking about trauma is still living in a silent prison of trauma.
    Some sex abuse survivors if they do tell especially those with clergy or other dominant societal offenders take thirty or more years to tell the truth and many go to their grave effectively still silenced by the offender and or the system that refused to acknowledge the truth of the trauma cannon.
    And once one is medicated one is usually stuck in the system because of the medication.
    There is NO institional method that is acknowledged by the MH system to Eliminate the Label and diagnosis and or use the medication as a true short term solution.
    The MH system now plays the productivity game – at least at my last job – where workers are made to have high productivity rates or literally be fired.
    It actually works better to see clients for decades rather than not.
    I only worked in one program that was as trauma based as possible at the time where there was a time limit involved. Then for awhile short term treatment was in and they changed the program time frame. The wink wink here was – they will always be back.
    This is too long- Icould write a book but your journey is still in the making think more, research everywhere, and we survivors not only have knowledge but deserve much much better than what we were given. Restitution’s are needed.

  • Patrick, I appreciate your effort here, and the fact you are writing in a second language. You sounded like Lacan and possibly Levi- Strauss.
    Shades of Literary Criticism here which most American folks unless they have a grad or BA degree in Literature would miss and might not only find confusing but off putting.
    I think you were trying to say I am with you but too high flauntin’.
    And if not that you built a fourth wall with your use of the word Signifer.
    There are lots of gaps here but the history is expansive but we need the whole kitchen sink- dirty plates and all.
    So the torture that was considered treatment needs to be called out. Freud and his forced reversal with his first academic writings on sexual abuse of his female patients changed to hysteria.
    And although Anna Freud did some great work – what about her relationship with her father?
    I am glad to see your calling out of the issues with Autism.
    Have you read Sue Miller’s “ Family [email protected]? It is still one of my favorites though now it is dated but still.
    You by passed addiction and what was the real story on Freud and cocaine?
    And according to my memory bank in the nineties we as professionals were being to the DSM was bunk. We just we never told the truth about why.
    One of the things as a professional that I respected with a few of the psychiatrists I worked with was their ability to have compassion, empathy, and even as mutation to those thevwirked with or discussed. Some of them would talk about artists of all kinds and be in awe of their creative talent. A few. And in your Psychoanalytic journal one of them always had a section on artists and or creativity?

    I did not get this empathy in your writing. Next time maybe more Victor Hugo and less Satre.
    You cannot join with others if bridges are too walking.

  • Dear Helen,I appreciate the effort but not there yet.
    To quote TS Eliot – that is not what I meant at all-
    When I suggested dialogue in an earlier post. I meant like Gail Collins and Bret Stephan’s weekly writing. A dialogue – could also be more voices now and then.
    The divide is not broken until listening occurs and is internalized and oh light bulb moment occurs.
    I am reminded at one hospitalization at Windsor Laurelwood they had a student nurse give us patients a talk.
    One patient asked her if she was afraid of getting contaminated by us- this was after for me 15. years as a LISW with time in the inpatient and outpatient worlds of mental health system.
    Her reply is classic and should be put down in Capitol letters in the first/ next M H system tell all book or even better Medical and Nursing and USocial Eork text books on what not to say to folks.
    Her reply was no because she had asked her parents if anyone in the family had issues and they assured her no- no one in her family had issues so she felt safe.
    I wanted to stand up and shout- you lie!
    Anyone but anyone who has worked in the system know almost all profs have had some family experience or the old sawhorse shrinks kids are the most troubled of all doctor kids. And I would say anyone who has a doc as a parent needs a 12 step program just for that.
    Another Social Worker who went on to a PhD in academia – name available upon request- discussed this. But we both were unaware – oh our dads were vets- obtbey could do great work but yikes their trauma issues really played out at home. And it doesn’t mean just Vets. All and I mean All are survivors of various types and forms of trauma.
    Until that is put up front – the bridges are still down and waters still troubled.
    The aide? Staff member – one of the great ways control is used in inpatient units- one never knows the education level. Aide? LPN? Intern?
    RN? Roving Staff? Hired help? Student working while dealing with single parenthood and school and another job?
    The aide who called me a crazy bipolar bitch probably was not just calling me that there were echoes of a past or present she was presumably unaware of.
    So please better ways of dealing with power and control. Again as porrviste the effort. You all can do better.

  • When I was a professional I had an idea but not total comprehension of those supposedly I was helping.
    I think this dialogue needs to happen here- a joint survivor /prof ongoing conversation.
    This project is worth all try but the issues raised here are very legitimate.
    There are several aspects
    Power and Control – Systemic in a variety of areas
    Human Rights
    How one reclaims a voice when it has literally and metaphorically been quashed
    How to reconcile- past, present, and future.
    Just more thoughts for other pieces.
    I believe it can and SHOULD be done.
    My mother was a Social Wirker and worked with pregnant women and had them climb stairs. She told me after she herself became pregnant she realized the 7 story flight was awful for them and never did that again.
    I feel that way too. In some ways, I had no idea.
    So how to change perspective when the system has walls high walls around change?
    John Steinbeck’sThe Grapes of Wrath and Rose of Sharon’s lasting life giving image at the end.
    We all have to change. Some from what was done to us others for what we did to them.
    Another run of columns two person please!

  • Dear All, I think we should just do it. If fear is involved one can use a made up name or relative or friend who is supportive of the cause.
    I wear many hats. Survivor, like seclusion, like forced meddling, like police taking me away from bank, like.Parkinsonism .
    Various relatives have used are using these drugs. I have had many experiences with suicide of peers and others.
    I also was a professional for over twenty years before being pushed into the system.
    I think that it’s better to work as we rather than them. It just makes sense. There are really really awful professionals but my sense is these who post and interact aren’t the ones we need to focus our outrage on.
    And to the profs. This action is scary. Taking a step when police have been called several times scars one. And it was bad real bad. Never expect Kumbaya from us.
    But this a good idea and worth a shot.
    Miracle on 34th Street? To see a flood of paper and o email would be so worth it!

  • Steve -actually it is common practice to use antidepressants for pain management and benzodiazepines as well. Also I have seen psychotropics used purely for behavior management for both the old and young.
    Show me a patient with a complicated surgical procedure and I will show a potential addict.
    The other issue is offspring of folks who are given these meds and viola the old wine in the cabinet filled by teens with water becomes the pills swiped from the medicine cabinet.
    Now it’s both etoh and psychotropics.
    The drive had lasted for so long / it has literally been consumed into a mindset. I even get pushed and then ought into it.
    Remember PSA’s Yul Brynner and his face seeing him say when you see this I will be dead?
    None of that now only add upon add upon add upon add.
    And don’t tell me Big Pharma folks were not aware of what a poor economy and employment situation can do for sales.
    So twisted and tangled and no end in sight that’s why why not do something rather than not even if the doing has issues?

  • Mickey this is a very interesting idea from a community organizing standpoint. Very Saul Alinsky. For those who don’t know or have heard negative accounts – Saul really was brilliant especially with tactical planning. He wold only take on paid work if he felt there was more than a 75% chance of winning. He did not come from a victim and or survivor view. It was all about power dynamics from the setting to the furniture.
    Things have changed so much in the world now. We really as a movement are quite restrained. Many of Saul’s tactics would be quickly quashed now. And many would be failures.
    I just read somewhere that many docs sign NDA for big medical corporations. The system as. someone once said is rigged. Many private corporations or family run businesses have huge huge amounts of money to spend. Huge.
    So there is a phrase we must all deeply consider here. Politics make strange bedfellows.
    We have to sit with unaligned folks because they have better seating placement and more money and access.
    This rankles and hurts and in many ways is totally unfair. But there it is.
    We need however uncomfortable to become we. And then We are Many They are Few can create change and hopefully not cosemetic but true change. Abolition? Complete Dextuction?
    To be determined and who knows? Who really knows?
    As much as I am angry and righteously so -I know no social action can be totally based on anger. Anger in and of itself fizzles, can become boring, can become a problem in and of itself.
    I would say let’s try it. What more do we have to lose?
    Unless all sorts of people intermingle and talk/ the walls stay up and bridges are never ever built. And yes sometimes you want to burn those bridges. And I have done my share of burning from all the stuff I lived through/ but what the hey?
    It is action and we have done nothing on a national basis-everyone else has.
    Sometimes as Harriet did one has to wade in the water and find out what happens after the water is troubled.Shevould never gaurantee safe oasssge. She had a history and knowledge but everyone just had to jump in.

  • Thanks Sera for another empathetic and informative piece. As the Latino world deals with death in prayer ritual- Presente David.
    We all are dealing with layers of multiple issues with the topic of suicide and as Robert’s previous recent article the water is both deep and wide.
    And kudos for being so wise with him. Education and intelligence sometimes obsufacstes human kindness and compassion.
    To sit with another’s pain is a high calling not taught or recognized in many parts of this world today.
    Henri Nouwen not only was sat with but sat with others in the last years of his life. There is a stream of folks and someday MIA should highlight those.
    In the article you focus on professionals. And I agree with your thoughts.
    The question is why and how come and why not?
    Again history of those folks who could sit and listen and how past communities were able to have them in a much much more available is so so very important.
    The one issue and for another time I hope is the concept of mental health checks and folks using the police to handle their problems and actively and purposefully avoiding any other action. A kind of wiping the hands clean.
    It is another layered quagmire.

  • Hi Steve, before I go offline. I just wanted to share thoughts.
    One sheriff is not a neutral word.
    Two Reading over things before sending a roller coaster learning curve that is affected by many things.
    Tbree. Male hold on the system even in anti system is still here. Most folks served by the system female and or othered folks.
    Use these thoughts as you will. I wish the best for the site but a learning curve still for all of us.
    That’s all folks!

  • Good luck and having the person who tagged a comment tell their thinking is essential. We are suppose to grow out of magical thinking around kindergarten. We need to know the specifics of why as you will.
    It would be nice to have a delay mechanism where before your post goes through – it comes back and you let it go through or not. A we are our own Sheriff idea. In grade school I had a teacher who brought in working phones to teach how to handle the telephone. I also had a record about safety Mr. Rogerish. We and the world do not yet have a template yet in place- hopefully it can be created soon.
    And nah the sheriff idea was that sarcastic humor? All I could think of was Bob Marley’s song.
    I will take a break and then comeback later.One never knows. A good faith effort can never ever be dismissed.

  • Eric, A good psychiatrist and or other professional in the system who has learned about childhood development, who has read SelmaFrau erg, DW Winnicott, who has read Jeanne Greenburg’s “I Never PrimisedYou. Rise [email protected] and “In this Sign” any of Judi Chamberlain’s writings or life stories,seen @ Splendor in the Grass and “The Snake Pit” and other theatrical and art based Humanities based classics would allow and actually be okay with anger. If course there is anger and there is anger. That’s why time outs work. It helps to create internal boundaries and the ability to self monitor and censor. At times we all need time outs and gain the skill of walking away when the anger is not helpful.
    But if a child does not get angry, does not challenge parents they will not become emotionally independent.
    So I think you asquience too much.
    We have been mistreated and we have the right to be angry and the responsibility to tell.
    How and in what way and what timeframe is still an issue on the table and this site.
    It takes an average of 30 years for an abuse victim to admit – many go to the grave in silence as well.
    WhenI was a professional in the system I consider anger a sign of awareness of something. And I tried hard to listen and support my clients – going so far as getting pro bono legal help even if a gaurdian ad litem was involved was at odds with the teen’s desires.
    And yes not all current professionals are evil but many are ignorant and or have been blindsided. And I would positvictims in a weird way as well.
    There is nothing wrong in agreeing to disagree. There is nothing wrong with owning the trauma that was imposed from the system.
    One wants to discuss from the experience not out of the experience.
    “Tell things slant” Emily Dickinson wrote. A step away.
    I have never found your comments deragatiry to me when I read as a former professional. And right on target when I wear the survivor hat.
    MIA has been slanting in a way I am not sure. Topsy turvey and ah so much going on and the waters are troubled everywhere it seems.
    Continue to wade in the waters unapologetically – we all need to remember just wade in sideways!
    And professionals should be okay with anger but it creates riptides then they have a right to have their own anger moment and own how they handle it.

  • I would have liked to see the commentary from the survey shown perhaps without names used.
    My thoughts are several. Maybe the voices of each movement need their own website or stream. We as survivors should not be beholden to anyone even friendly and supportive professionals of all stripes. True empowerment would mean a global based site with voices of those that have been in country.
    However this should not preclude interaction – which various streams with bridges for dialogue and debate.
    There also needs to be voices of professionals who have been in country after years in the system and also one for those in the system who came from the system. I am not sure how the Abolitionists worked out the slave voice Harriet Tubman, Sijourner Truth andmany others who spoke or wrote accounts, versus the priveleged but awoke white make voice and those white males not as priveledged as in President Lincoln , with Lucy Stone and the Seneca Falls Convention white females who realized Woah we have some common ground here.And the whole Disability movement in the late 1950’s into the 1960’s. Initially started as a parents group and then growth not a mirror image of NAMI why?
    Model U.N. programs teach debate somewhat elitist but so essential to these times. We all need to think and research and dialogue facts not just react. This is a hard burden for survivors because not only do we have righteous anger we also are in a recovery ladder sometimes greased by us ir sometimes Inswaer poured in by others who do not want us to be heard.
    All vets are survivors. That does not preclude official office or government work. Why those and not others?
    Fred Freese just died. A big friend of E Fuller Torrey. He was a survivor bought or played into the hands of those who used his life story and fo some reason he let them. Not sure why.
    The trouble with complete destruction is what to do with those in crisis? There will be more and more as the migrant crisis is not solved and even so with things as they are generations of new hopefully better help.
    There is a time for every thing. My question is what time is it now? And how can we all work together and in subgroups?
    One of my relatives was DD. Her parents would say she could do- normal- for so long and then start getting stressed. She had both DD life activities and “Normal.”
    That should be some sort of template.

  • Thanks Kindred for the poem reference. It is worth a read and maybe a mailing to professionals and government officials.
    Marian Wright Elderman if the Children’s Defense Fund has several books one with another poem.
    The first child abuse prosecuted was in NYC two centuries ago and they had to use an Animal Rights Law.
    There are so many threads here. The complete and utter lack of trading in Child Development to all or many professionals who work with children.
    Michael Harrington’s The Other America is also a must read though old.
    Jean Vanier and his L’Arche Communities not close to this but helpful to know about.
    Every child is unique and deserves not only a safe place at home and school but also the opportunity to thrive with environmental and economic equality.
    Read Octavia Butler’s bio. What she could have achieved with equal supports. And yes she was depressed but who eouldn’t be in society as she was asso many of us are or were?
    Sen. John McCain in the other side of politics for me did send the first National Geographic magazine that featured Climate Change to all members of Congress with another official.
    We need to do more of this.

  • Eric, I concur with Oldhead.As much asI would like to say it would help – no. But I really understand your need to write it.
    This did give me some fuel for possible future actions and or areas to research.
    Back in the day while Maryland was in the process of deinstutilization of both MH and DD institutions – and apologies for the MH label – there was a NFP MAUDD that had a Social Worker and JD that took on folks to help them st least get out from the institution. More DD but it is a sort of template.
    I don’t know what other templates and tools and techniques were used during those days.
    It seems as if the need for self critical analysis of psychiatry and the MH system was never try put in place.
    Most organizations and the government have red teams, the RC used to have a Devil’s Advocate, and in medical circles they had Tumor Boards and would convene a critical response team when things went down and or south.
    In Maryland,folks were arbitrarially places in either instituiyoon sometimes with out regard of strengths and or weaknesses.
    If one reads Probate Court papers folks were just forcibly placed after a petition to Court was made.
    Again, I am not sure how and why it was stopped but it seems Mental Health checks called into police have filled that gap as well as the power of professionals without regard to the rights of the folks threatened with psychiatric incarceration. Likewise there is no method or framework to either self advocate or have any other official or no official person advocate for you.
    Part of the problem is the literal well metaphorical wall between impatient and outpatient professionals. This makes the impatient folks so much more lethal in their power. I never understood the lack of communication but maybe fear on the clinicians because they too are one step away from someone calling the state liscencing board and causing financial distress and loss of business.
    In my locale – a former CEO of a Center was foricibly removed from a town hall about the county system because he disagreed with the current administrations handling of the system.
    There are groups other than our friend NAMI but more in the DD or physically disabled communities.
    In the DD communities if one has been petioles to have guardianship over one’s self there at least in the past was a full throttle legal advocacy for the person being considered for a guardianship. Just because one had a very low IQ and the family who were fairly pro self advocacy but were concerned about safety in the system- even in that type of situation a legal hearing was usually held full throttle.
    What is the legal difference between guardianship and AOT?
    Why can’t there be some sort of mutually agreeable compromise and or tool?
    Are there time limits?
    And if not – why not?
    How can one put in the latest research and st least get professionals and others to do a critical anaylisid of all relevant information?
    Why don’t o those involved in this cause accept pro bono status?
    According too the ABA -all lawyers in the association are required to set aside yearly pro
    bono hours.
    What turned the tide in the past?
    Can we make an Allie movement like in the LBGQT movement?
    What about Bryon Stephonson and his work?
    Can some of these actions be considered hate crimes?
    If UN declares torture? How does one use its strength?
    Are there any Law Schools that actually identify this as a cause and if not? Why?
    One does not have to agree with all things antipsychotic to see a human being had the right if nothing else to voice and advocate of their beliefs- hands down
    Guardian ad Litem work? I actually got pro bono stormiest to work on behalf of my teen clients when they disagreed with the guardian ad litem’s plan. It had nothing to do with what I thought was best but EVERYONE deserves to be heard and given appropriate consideration to their views, wants, and desires.
    Mycenter did have a complaint system and some of my clients used it on me. I gave them the names and numbers to call. They were angry and whether I was wrong. or right I felt they needed to be heard.
    I hope some how this rambling helps. Good luck.

  • Shaun As a former professional in tbe system I know the process of seeing and then acting on all this new information is not the easiest. You need to read all the histories of otherness and start thinking beyond
    A stand alone trauma center open 24/7 with alternatives and ohg free services or low cost would be so helpful. The rural and urban areas are shut out except for some 12 step programs and their are entire counties without any.
    The other idea is what is the basis of altered stars? Def from drugs but also in First Nation cultures and others altered states are induced. To this day I am not sure how much drugs and then my spiritual/ artistic/Empath makeup was part and or parcel.
    Trauma and some is severe and what to do after you have seen genocide?
    Getting the dx off would be a great way to make amends and help psych survirs or whatever tripe of human label one uses
    This has been the worst for me.
    Despite my past professional record I still have the dx in the records. And attorney help no tried that in various ways- THEY DONT WANT TO HELP
    Say a certain phrase and you have turned to nothing literally nothing in their eyes.

  • Hi Emily, I read your posting and thanks. I know exactly what your are talking about though for me the vocabulary would be different.
    I think you described the before and after body and mind sense and how one cannot truly forget and move on. And the need for folks and institutions to accept responsibility and atone and amend. It will never be what we want but a ritual a removing of label and truth telling.
    The word trauma fits for me because it is everywhere and eventually affects all of us though many wear masks and or deny.
    And life is not fair. Much more not fair for many. I am always aware if I had not hand luck and upper middle class ( though ah we were the family that read poetry,
    read de Chardin, and listened to Bo Didley and Harry Belefonte, had contact with other cultures so looking back we were probably considered weird in my town)
    If not for that random luck I would have been dead years ago. No doubt in my mind.
    Tillie Olsen wrote a lovely book called Silences and it is old but still worth getting your hands on it.
    Joanne Greenburg’s life and work are worth reading
    Audre Lorde yes, her too.
    So many have been victims on our earth so very very many. I try to learn about that ones who continued.
    Maybe no nouns just adjectives like Susan B Anthony suggested?

  • Emily
    Thanks for the reply. That is vital to building community. Victim yes but one needs to know there are other roles- POWS are not POWS forever they were prisoners , the Japanese Americans in interment camps eventually got out. We the living owe the others a voice and enemy lingers in the victim identity- issues. Maybe a new name ? Once the border crisis is over what role name will we give tbe children? I could go on and on.
    What does give me hope is Emma Lazarus. She was not only a poet but a Social Worker in the tentements of New York City.
    She developed cancer. In those days cancer was not treated in tbe hospital – stigma and all that. Her frien Tose Hawthorne Nathaniel Hawthorne’s daughter took care of her. After Emma died Rose became a nun and started a freeHospice program for terminally ill cancer patients.
    Society and medicine eventually changed so that cancer was not considered an anethema.
    Steven Biko died but his voice helped dismantle. apartheid.
    The abolitionist and suffergette movements wow centuries ?
    And btw an underground railway or Martha transportation line would be great baring that letter writing. I feel the safest with that.

  • Emily, I have appreciated your words and wish. you the best of luck? Why not Canada with Bonnie? And why go into academia when tenure is still such a ongoing problem?
    I have seen multiple sides of the MH system and find it now totally broken. Apartheid in some ways.
    In the past there were some as I was awoke professionals but we were still blind to slot of the abuses. As in any tyrannical government state there are good people. So often and so tragically it is sheer luck that one bumps into them.
    If you have not been forced hospitalized or pushed into an ER visit which usually ends in being escorted in a wheelchair with security you truly cannot begin to comprehend the experience. Or waking up in a seclusion room with no one telling you how it happened or why and with s nurses aid saying they are putting you into a nursing home.
    But kudus for trying to understand at least admit that some things will be forever beyond your kien. We will not hold that against you as mother mostly do not hold females who choose to not have children against them at least I do. Differences and heterogeneity are important and vital for growth.
    Saul Alinsky was aware of this.
    I looked st the survey and no. Been there done that – even enrolled in a NIMH before I rewoke. Not the best way to make change though ah it is alluring. The psychiatrist at Boring old man website -despite his elitism – was the best at debunking the ghost written research.
    As to your musical metaphor. In my area we have The Gathering Place that caters to anyone touched by cancer. No docs no dx anyone – whether you choose to have treatment or not – free services to all
    Mixing at times of most yoga and other classes and events. You are just you without a label of patient or caretaker or partner – whatever. I think it is a lovely model.
    I wrote up a replication in terms of trauma and sent it to the Board and the orgininatir of that program was on the board. She knew me and at least some of my cancer ties. Nada nada nada.
    This model would have by passed the medication and labeling issues for all. It removed them from the playing field. My guess is too scary. NAMI is so big in my area and I have been hounded.
    Giving free Reiki at a church with a NMA I group they had to come and give me their speil Mentsl Illness is like Diabetes. Nice folk but so ignorant and so very very uninformed. I know folks with Diabetes on a personal and once professional level. Not a good connection. In fact there was once a teen who wanted to stop her insulin the medical staff let her do it. Eventually she changed her mind but when I was in my seclusion rooms I thought of her freedom of choice often
    One complaint and this is for Dteve when a comment is removed the writer should get an explanation. It also would be helpful to track the why if it wafting a trigger and how to handle readings that can induce anger.
    An angry response place that can be put on hold and then renegotiated or voluntarily removed after 24 hours.
    Good luck in life.

  • The comments are an interesting reaction to efforts that should have happened decades ago.
    Does anyone know how the Nuremberg Trials were created and who and how witnesses were used?
    Elie Wiesel struggled with the concept of forgiveness for the rest of his life. Again I would look on how others handled restitution and reclaimization. The history is not that great. Intially, freed slaves were promised a small amount of land and money. But somehow it fell through the cracks. The First Nation folks are still dealing with multiple issues of health and sociology- economic status. South Africa did do a Commission but it will take decades to work it all out. The Japanese American containment – proper word? camps just had a SCOTUS long delayed moment.
    So much of human history and now we are so aware of it but instead of using it as a bell toll do many of us continue to hide our head in the sand.
    So many psych survivors myself included and horrirific experiences and done in isolation ie How do you tell close or extended relatives or say children I was put in seclusion and chemically raped. For no good reason other than I was more knowledgeable than staff and was uppity.
    So I think the psych survivor skinf to the sexual abuse folks have another layer of absolute isolation and for the psych survivor we are labeled and in that labeling our entire power our entire ability to fight back had been completely taken away.
    There are the folks on the unit but as mentioned in Eric’s writing you don’t see the folks outside.
    It’s multi layered and deserves an almost separate Nuremberg type trial or Truth and Reconcilliation Committee.

  • Chris – it has taken awhile to comment because now I find your use of the b word triggering. But that is my issue at this time not yours at this time.
    In the past in my journey, I did try to embrace the whole label role. Actually in NAMI money donation literature they suggest you use your label while asking for donations. In an act of protest I choose to use the s word. Because I knew it had negative connotations in the community and just to show what embracing the label could do in a community.
    My letter donation campaign resulted in police calls to my house. No ever came up to ask me what my story was.
    So I literally shot myself in the proverbial foot by following in pa resistant way NAMI ‘s advice.
    Prior to this my child’s soccer coach had relayed once finding I was a LISW that his brother was a s and had issues also another writer friend needed help with a relative who needed some help who was also labeled s. To their credit they were not dismissive but genuially confused and now that I know so much about the survivor movement I wish I could do a do over spend get them both connected to this site and other groups. I know they would not only listen but learn.
    At one of my CUEs before I quit the profession the presenter basically dissed the entire DSM process and said they gather in a basement and hold up their hands for options. And this was for the DSM III R.
    If you want t embrace the bi concept – whatever works- however you are on the journey and this may or may not be the last stop for you.
    I look to nature and science.
    And it shows many diverse patterns beside the binary system. Artists also talk about the four season cycle- so maybe one can call themselves a quad?
    Prosody in Poetry has all sorts of patterns- one could use as a snapshot or label. Today I am a trochee. Tomorrow or next year I will be an iambic pentameter.
    Fractals! Maybe some of us are fractal people?
    Humans for better or worse have always exhibited a need for classification. The Caste System in India is ancient.
    We also have both expressed and nonexpressedneeds for community.
    One time s relative who had a DD child said, he could be in society but stress symptoms would start and back in another more DDish community the stress symptoms would disappear or be less.
    One needs to live in multiple communities and how do we manage that? How do we talk to one another?
    And add to that Trauma and Yikes everything becomes more confused and harder to find solutions.
    The Irish still talk of The Battle of the Boyne and Oliver Cromwell and it’s is centuries! And Armenians still cope with the trauma of their own genocide over a centryry ago. And African Americans still deal with the memory of The Midfle Passage.
    Some of us carry remnants of the Neanderthals in our biological make up. What happened to an entire once thriving species?
    After a war and most wars eventually end even the 100 years war ended there is always the next morning and people have to live with each other. I try to remember that though so easy to forget.
    What do we say to each other in the morning after a war?
    How has it be done in the past?
    What happens to language?
    What happens to memory?
    What happens to art?
    As angry as I can sometimes get and rightfully so I don’t want to have to deal with an involvement of an atrocity.
    But then again there was a movement against Hitler?
    What happened to its survivors?
    And when one dismantles – how does one rebuild?
    And what about the cornerstone or keystone in a foundation of s building? If it is damaged or rotten what is done?
    More questions than answers here,

  • Thanks Knowledge. I found thee work at times very problematic. Drugs were used with kids in hospitals who were sick enough to need nursing care but to old and rambucious to handle on weekends in the floor units.
    And that was way back.
    The prof organizations need to be woken up somehow.
    Dr Julious Richmond Surgeon General began the talk of stopping homosexuality as a sx and issues with smoking. It just takes one strong bearable voice and then the cracks start to open.

  • Julie, I am glad you wrote this and I like the discussion going on. I hear she is a good writer but I have my own particular issue with her separate from most of the discussion. I have read the other books from Kay to Andrew to Ellyn. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. And Their is the ethical debate that has never risen to any type of solution about client stories and this goes for all sorts of books especially like Mary Piper and her “Raising Ophelia” book. That should be an entire blog and more because with bestseller earnings without those human interest narratives where would the book be? Like Plantation owners where would they be without slave labor?
    One of those things that even when a book’s ideas are good and it is well written there is the reader unease but look at Eugene O’Neil and “ Long Days Journey Into Night” he used his family and his mother’s addiction to morphine – so similar to the opioid crisis now only you don’t live addicted you eventually OD and possibly die. So there is the issue of art and human suffering how to protray? And how else to get an urgent message across?
    Tony Kushner’s “ Angels in America “ and the other works of art that the AIDS crisis brought out were essential in turning the tide that and the forgotten AIDS quilt. So there is that fragment side of the discussion as well.
    Trauma studies also complicate the picture and I still see in my local community people identifying with the diabetes analogy only wow you do have a great chance to become diabetic- how ironic is that?’
    And there in my family and others those that choose to use meds and get benefit. You can’t smash them and I despite my history refuse to be rigid about their choice to take – although some day I hope it will be seen like a tobacco issue. Until that time comes and unless there are varied and solid alternatives most folks have to struggle on their own.
    Since I once was a professional I also wanted to say back in the day
    Termination of treatment was the goal. I would say we are a team and my job is to put myself out of business. And there was one program I worked in that was as trauma focused as possible during the time and it was an enforced two year time period where the last six months was all about ending treatment.
    So at times the thinkingbwas there until it became incovient to the powers that be. And I think there was a knowing downplaying of all of that and highlighting the bio aspect and illness metaphor.
    The system already iffy became solidly rigged. There was no treatment as I had treated my own clients it was pure and simple incarceration.

  • Rachel I am not sure what one would call it. And there are still gaps in my understanding because there are walls of silence around that and other things.
    All I know is that I had this friend who was very influenced by Lauren Slater in graduate school. She and others staged this meeting where multiple where aware of what was going to go down. The worst aspect is a a liscenced Social Worker I would never do such a thing to someone and I had already had sought out support. They actually gave my mother a list of shrinks so the message was medication. Not support.
    The really strange layer and their were and still are many is that a relative was trying to withdraw from a med and I was supportive at the very same time.
    Other friends were going through their own family traumas and I didn’t want to burden them and those folks continued to have really really hard times. The best I could do was disengage but life has never been the same.
    My writing hopes were destroyed as were many years of my life.
    Kind of a psychological tar and feathering so to speak. Irish folks did that to women who had the sheer gall to fall in love with a Brit.
    I was just ready to change my life and not just stagnate. So much for that.

  • Thanks for this heads up. Despite the flaws of this approach there were some real insights gathered on trauma and or childhood.
    I think the biopsy history folks saw the cracks and used the fall to suit their own purposes.
    But this is important to everyone here and around the nation,
    We of all folks especially those who were incarcerated while being a parent know this scenario all to well.
    This issues and others no matter what your political thinking gives us some sort of a voice.
    In some reports the children and teens are being forced into chemical treatment. They are being taken to psych units where some think it will be better for them. Unless the centers are aware and woke it will not be better possibly with the chemicals worse.
    The Poor People’s Campaign is also s path,
    One can call or sign a petition.
    This also would be another opportunity to break down folks ignorance about our public fear if a person is safe to disclose.
    If nothing changed it will get worse for ALL of us.

  • Dear Julie,
    Thank you for this piece. I always wondered where Lauren Slater was and I was afraid she was one of those who would continue to drink the cool aid. I also enjoyed reading about your own journey away from drinking the cool aid.
    The journey you have taken and I as well was hard and st times still hard but with as much empathy and some writer’s envy as I have- I am so so glad I did not continue the way she has.
    And I do appreciate your empathy and realization in the past we were hoodwinked. And the painful aspect is it is s Hood one can only remove by one’s self. And sometimes for many and for many reasons the Hood is the only option seen and or given.
    Your writing hits a painful chord. Lauren came to a local college to speak and was a demigod to an old close friend.
    Because of her, (LaureSlater)my old friend and others did their own ignorant intervention when I told folks I was thinking on separating.About five people were involved including my husband albeit they pulled him in. The intervention went down badly for me and I suspect with hindsight them. I have never ever been the same. There was the me before and there is the me now. My mother was called and she was dealing with a disabled husband and a dying daughter and I was contacted. See a psychiatrist. Implied wax you need medication.
    The trauma of that month made me want to take meds because I felt so NOT ME anymore. And down the rabbit hole I fell.
    It took months for my husband to admit what they had done. He was a StageIII cancer survivor and my sisters terminal illness and his post treatment side affects really made him less than what he had been. We have been back and forth. He is more able to see his role and we have some what but not yet totally resolved our relationship.
    My dying sister never thought I was crazy- She knew the details. But they never asked her.
    So I have always felt Lauren Slater had for me and maybe others a weird non involved but influencer type of role in my life.
    She is like NAMI others in needsee her and those as pathways where in reality they are error prone as all humans.
    I am not surprised at how she is doing. And I am for sorry for that. I hope she can see the light some day.

  • Well if one looks into trauma – the ability to comprehend and analyze what a person is currently experiencing sometimes never can be done ie Vets in POW camps and such.Dr Henry Louis Gates program on family history highlights hidden stories of trauma- literally for safety and other reasons not able to be acknowledge.
    Back in the day in grad school threre was acknowledgement but so small. Michael Harrington’s book- “The Other America” is still seminal reading. The problem came to the fore with the downgrading and lack of funding for community centers and many folks WANTING to go into private practice. Both options proved to be toxic to ethical professionals. I totally dropped out.

  • Thanks. I as both a former professional and as a psych survivor can empathize. It was abuse and I would venture a form of torture. There were some places in the past that did try at helping. Fritz Redl’s work When We Deal with Children.
    America is great at wording respect for children but if you look st the history no. The first child welfare case used an animal cruelty law that was in place. That was during the era of the orphan train and lost children from immigrants or dead parents or parents with issues from the whole plethora of societal problems. In retrospect the orphan train seems a better idea- at least if it was abusive you could run away.
    And lost children. We have one in our family history. There is a marker in the cemetery – Our Willie.
    Kudos for keeping on. I did it backwards from you. I still struggle because the help actually was so harrowing it taught me access hate not only for the so called helpers but for myself as well. Some days are better than others.Forgiveness is a long process because to hold on to hate is ultimately destructive for yourself and others – lose/lose situation but hard because there is no formal ritual of restorative anything.
    Essentially a doctor/ pt role was a formal societal contract read Ormand’ work on medical authority
    Legally if a contract is broken or illused there is a pathway for recompense. Any first year law student with brains can riif on the law case about the man with the hairy arm.
    As such now like in Aparthied South Africa there are only walls with some cracks. And they still are mired with issues and will be for many decades.
    What is do hard is when you drop off a pet for boarding and the staff is more empathetic and uses feeling. Words about your pet than ANY inpatient staff at any and all levels.
    And outside profs are unable to get it. Nice folks but you have to be inside just as with pregnancy.
    You don’t and sometimes can’t know what you don’t know.
    I would go for the trauma center idea the system is broken beyond repair. And also more profs need to come out like yourself
    Police, politicians and tell truth to power. But again no safety net yet.
    And a movement to stop mental health checks
    Who ever thought that one up?
    Needs to spend some time in country.
    I still can’t do things because zI live in fear of those calls. One false step a word or a “strange” behavior and I am back to a place where NOBODY CARES as the Broadway show put it so well., The Me that Nobody Knows.

  • I don’t know Oldhead. If you go back decades there was Ken Kersey and other artistic efforts that if not upsetting the applecart at least had a tint or shade of resistence.I have been amazed at how folks on the whole nine yards of the political spectrum have been actively blinded sided to the psychiatric system’s brokeness and abuses.
    Family Therapy was started by professionals in the system who saw there were big problems.
    They flourished for several years in various areas and now seem to have a very small voice and impact.
    So any help from inside the system is few and far between.
    The Roman Catholic Church in the fifties had social action cells that convened in different areas in the States. That would be one way. I don’t know how it worked just that once it did exist.
    I think the young folks might be the key. They just need to be mentored.They at least have a huge stake in the game.
    The hundredth monkey idea- if they could see as in the shootings there is a deep and more complex story as in gender. racism, and sexism- I think they could get behind the movement.

  • Thanks for this Sarah!
    I think you have encapsulated a part of human existence. I think it works for all folks and did help me to put some of my experiences into a more clarifying framework.
    This should be taught to students everywhere so that we can have an informed public.
    It seems we are as a country – a society- and world all in trauma mode. And not with one trauma but many overlapping the personal and public boundaries of family, work, region, culture, religion, gender – and on and on.
    I think trauma maybe the one universality that can pierce through the blinders of eye, heart, ears, and mind that we all either have chosen or have been forced to wear.
    I would think giving this to the movements besides ours would be invaluable.
    Keep up the work.

  • Dear Richard,
    Thanks for sharing your gift and talent.. I was always told to mouth the words when singing in class by the nuns. I did have one friend who allowed me to sing during a trip. It was joyful- so kudos for using your voice in a good cause.
    It reminds me of the old songs – from Joe Hill to Little Boxes – to Biko- to Whose Garden Was This and so many others. There should be a list. We need more songs and creative endeavors- may yours lead the way.
    I enjoy your thinking though I come from a slightly different perspective in terms of my life as it is was and who knows what is next.
    My ongoing concern seeding this from many many sides is the system is broken and has been but how to help everyone deal with life when there are the range of OMG and WTF issues that come up like flotsam in our lives and some issues are most definitely systemic and ah the current political wave we all are forced into riding willing or not.
    I also try hard not to lead forward in anger and resentment though I know my anger was justified by the awful so called treatment I received made worse because though I was in the system I tried very hard to be aware and help. Not sure if this approach ever worked despite my own best intentions. And I also know there are always some good apples in the bin the trohble is having the ability to find them admits so many bad ones. That takes time, money, luck and a modicum at the very least of societal privelege.
    If one does not know who what how to look for help and those answers are quashed then how can one ever triumph? The fact that people have and do is amazing to me.
    I would love to have restorative justice for the stems survivors some day. We may not be able to talk directly to the abusive charlatans who creased, maintained, treated us or others but some sort of legal, societal reckoning would be great.
    I also would imagine some of the professionals in system were somewhat harmed or compromised as well and there issue at the right time needs to be addressed some where along the spectrum.

  • Sandra— I like your comment on families. As I have evolved or de evolved hopefully evolved I think families are lied to and not in th the dark and support is at the very best woefully lacking.
    I think that I had a child visit in one of the hell holes and it was so oppressive I would consider it undersong torture and no “ helping professional” in sight.
    This was the one with the tv in a locked wooden crate and the IT room locked with no OT staff though filled with supplies when I made a fuss and they let us use the supplies one time.
    The system is broken for ALL except those in power who profit.
    They break families – break down good memories and insert trauma moments.
    Just think how it affects the family dog. If animal lovers were aware of how the “help” of inpatient treatment affects and damages the pets just the pets mind you- they would be up in AAarms against the secondary trauma endured by the pets who can’t figure out what has happened to their beloved owner.
    A visit to a doc and then ER time and the pet waits alone.

  • Thanks for all the talking points.
    What can we learn from South Africa,The Female vote, and Abolition of Slavery?
    Many of these movements were multinational and reguired strange bedfellows to get the actually work done. It took decades and several generations before some of the goals were accomplished
    Witness and bearing witness is such an important concept and role.
    The immigration crisis and massaive refugee global issues – all play a role here because of the trauma issue.
    Freedom House in Detroit caters to the needs of refugees who have experienced torture.
    Our community might help here.
    Have you ever met a refugee from a war torn and violent country. I just felt the absence of safety from them. It was clear they had been through a hell I never could fully imagine.
    And in some countries -others- of all kinds are in unsafe zones.
    So how to use history and how to expand a fishing net.
    I don’t have the answers – and my locale in some ways is hard.
    But we need to think on witness-trauma- and change or someday end the system as it is now.

  • Thanks Au for your time, effort, and thoughts. I have issues but you have created a great framework for discussion.
    In your community I am not sure where the issue of trauma lays.
    My one and only concern is how can we- will we deal with trauma and for it to work we need to address it at almost all societal levels
    I am coming from Caps for Sale approach to all of this as a worker and yes through my fault I did the dip in more babysitting than not work- I had no idea of what folks who were there were actually dealing with- then I have my time in MH system and then trying to live out of system but trauma issues are still present

    We need to be able to meet in a safe place and organize. One of the student groups against gun violence laid out shoes in front of the Capitol steps for each child victim of gun violence since Sandy Hook – it was a visual like the Aids Quilt
    And in a fully trauma aware world the shooters and other offenders of all ills would be at least understood to have some sort of trauma template in their lives.
    No excuse but to understand is better than hating and or stigmatizing.
    Keep up the work you all.

  • Dear Cal,
    Thank you for this. I am so very sorry that this has happened and is still happening. I had followed some of it but did not know it was still continuing.
    Thanks for the numbers to call.
    It helps to be able to use your voice and calling for me is doable.
    What else would you like the MIA and psych survivors to do?
    There has been a bad rift between the MH – no better word for now- apology for this- and the DD folks for a long time. The folks on the A spectrum seem to have been thrown in the midst and not in a helpful way at all at all.
    FYI- Some local and state government funding divides and separates funding. My local country does this with DD services getting much more than MH.Divide and Conquer indeed.
    In the old state hospital system where I zI had seen both but more involved with DD state systems – it was crumbling structures similar to Public Housing in one of the so called bad areas- and a pervasive sense of sadness. But nothing like this – though there were cottages I was not allowed to see.
    There was the beginnings of cololesence in the 70’s and with the advent of ADA.
    We all need to work together.

  • Thanks Julie ad Pam’s for your kind words.
    It helps to not be alone with this issue.
    And to have the dx label taken away.
    To have this step put in would be utterly invaluable.
    A was a for Social Worker and I was always aware of the power dynamics. I would say I am the pilot you are the navigator we work together as a team.
    To have mostly male docs treat me like dirt- to have them and most staff treat me worse and in ways I would never treat another human being in a professional capacity I still find shocking and the wounds to my self image, esteem,trust, hope are still open and the scars still not formed enough.
    To still be confused to the why and how come and what the hell did I do wrong questions is maddening no pun intended.
    The layers of trauma that put me in harms way and the trauma that was called treatment and then the lack of clarity is every day hard.
    And Julie to put salt on my wounds- I told folks I worked with that the only perfect human is a dead human. If I did something I would admit,take responsibility, and make some sort of amends.
    If I were to call CPS I would have the kid sit in and hear every word and then I would give them the scenario facts good and bad.
    This what should happen and this is what might happen. No guarantees because the system even way back was broken
    I would advise tell Again and again til someone hears you.
    Now I know in some cases no onehears you because iPod facto because of where you are in society you are basically s non human.
    All the professionals who are in support need to think long and hard on what to do.
    We have our voices but need a way to become hear able.
    Novels like Bonnie and art in all its form helps.
    There needs to be a way to remove dx labels and a forum for professionals to apologize – take responsibility and make some sort of amends.
    That this process is not legitimized in any areas of our society today shows how off course we are.

  • It was neat to see the support given to folks. Happy Birthdays to Bonnie and Julie and a very unbirthday wish to the rest.
    Sometimes I wonder if I was given ect superticiusly. My experience was so bizzare and I did get a hip fracture and do you trust the memories of those times? How much fog was real or not?
    I have interacted and failed so I go day by day.
    I am unable to find away to integrate my self before in system my self in system and my self outside system though every time a police car passed me by I inwardly and outwardly cringe because I was hauled off.
    I can ride or walk and give an historical trigger trauma life recount.
    Leaving is an option but where and when and what would constitute a safe place for me?
    The sum of my being is deer in the headlights frozen
    The risk of being hauled away with face mask and five point restraints and forcibly medicated is to strong to overcome.
    If there were pathways of acknowledgement of apology or amends it would help but no.
    Silence from written correspondence and the records I have obtained – many Un obtained are not helpful and just the fact second parties are used to copy them means another human being has seen my history without my permission.
    I don’t comment much anymore.
    Best to all.

  • Of course responsibility is very important. There used to be a professional therapist who worked exclusively with adolescents who had murdered a parent. She never advocated for them to be absolved if the murder but worked within the criminal justice system. If and when able and allowed she would take them to the parent’s grave site.
    She understood the seeds of trauma but also comprehended hate and severe aggression is intolerable in a functioning society.
    And we all have to acknowledge there is a very wide spectrum on how humans have distinct temperaments and how each of us copes with trauma.
    I just get upset with the nomenclature used to avoid responsibility of the powers that be who avoid responsibility with the use of the phrase “mentally ill”.

  • The latest news report I read and it is hard to even consider delving in-reports TRAUMA!
    He is an ORPHAN!
    The system failed him and all the ties that bind- the big Pharma playbook, the NRA change from times where assault rifles were not used or even thought about, the weapon industry – those who make money off of assault weapons, the Mental Health system which soon after deinstutionslization began to flounder because monies from the Federal government weren’t forthcoming and a divide and conquer mentality ran slipshod and wild fire over the disability movement especially seen between the DD and MH funding and publicity.
    Professionals in the helping fields became cogs in a more and more restrictive and push the pills work culture. Important information on Trauma was pushed and or erased so that the pills could or bogus therapies designed for submission could be used and touted.
    He in the eyes of the world was one of the EXPANDABLES.
    And he figured that one out.
    Until we all rise up
    Victims will be melded into Perps
    More people and children will die and ever so many people like in Thomas Grays “ Elegy in a Churchyard” will live lives at best of quiet desperation and those that had gifts unseen and unheard will never make their mark and help change the world.

  • Thanks Kat and I am sorry for you and all of us harmed by so called “helpers”.
    Although trauma has been known as an issue it has gotten trampled on time and time again. To acknowledge the extent of how trauma has impacted our society and most importantly how offenders in all professions have used heir radar sense to make malignant use of trauma to empower themselves and their minion is difficult. This is not just a psych issue- this is societal at many, many levels.
    Read the tactics used by rich offenders to stop the victims in their tracks.
    Not only Big Pharma but other for profit organizations – their tactics and toxicity. How can they ever sleep at night?
    Roxanne guy has a new memoir that is spot on describing trauma. Read it in pieces that fit. I found it helpful. Krista tipped On Being podcast deals with trauma at times and other areas that I have found helpful .Suppossedly there is a Holocaust Trauma Clinic? If so it should be a generalized one for psych trauma survivors paid for by Big Pharma instead of Advertising and PR the profit stream goes to these centers. And 20% of all psychiatrist’s income who have been named as a non- helpful traumatizing physicians – go to funding for a ten year period.
    Not great but I would take it.

  • Pia, This is in some ways a large can of worms but I think the time has come to talk and begin discussions. I have knowledge coming from multiple side of the issue from both a personal and professional stand point.
    US Primate Centers – PETA heavily protested these centers and found issues. At the same time, these centers worked on cutting edge AIDS research during the awful epidemic. Some primate centers have now been closed.
    Most medical researchers have used animals because they thought it was better than say the use of research on unknowing or uninformed human subjects. Look up Tuskegee Institute history of horror.
    The Nazis used concentration camp children for medical research look up the accounts of the survivors of the twin research.
    Read “Refuge” by Terry Tempest Williams and her account of the effects of nuclear testing on her extended family members.
    Check out the movie “Lorenzo’s Oil” a film version of a true account on how a father helped find a solution to his son’s genetic disease.
    The urge to find help, to find a cure, to find the proverbial bullet runs deep for family members.
    The urge to find better ways of fighting protecting the country runs deep in governments.
    The urge to find more profit, more money runs deeps in for profit and even nonfood profit systems and research is then used upside down.
    The focus is on how to keep people addicted and profit flow not only flowing but more and more.
    With chemicals used by agriculture the research is on how to increase profits no matter what the chemicals are doing to the biomes and ecosystems.
    Read Rachel Carson’s “Silent Spring”
    Even a so called simple product like infant formula can create issues because it is given to developing countries therefore allowing innocent infants a portal for cholera and other diseases where water is not abled to be boiled.
    At one time medical researchers were transplanting heads of animals on to dogs. True. Names withheld.
    I also am aware of medical researchers who are good decent folks and are aware of the need of families and patients who are facing life long medical problems and pain. They can be forced into silence when they become aware of ethical issues. NDL’s and gag orders and threat of professional obliteration. See some of the Hollywood movies that centered on doctors caught in research nightmares.
    For decades state institutions and schools for the disabled were the perfect place for research. Silence and lack of power perfect place to work.
    Abuse and those who participate in it are bullies and act like typical offenders.
    Whenever their is lack of truth, the push for profit over ethics, bullying of whistleblowers or potential whistleblowers, whenever there is the smell of stink coming from CEO’s CFO’s lavish lifestyles and perks given to professionals to keep them quiet or aid and abet the goal of the corporation, institute, or system ` unethical thinking, and justifying is looming and looms large.
    In the eighties the hospital I worked for pushed research on all departments. It was voluntary but not voluntary. We did research projects that we had no heart or interest in and the results were compromised but put in because of the pressure.
    Small beans, but that aura of culture kept growing and growing.
    Check out how rabbits were killed for pregnancy tests. Check out research done by cosmetic industries.
    Some folks would say PETA over steps but I think they need to be listened to and respected for their viewpoint just as families members and patients need for help need to be listened to and respected.
    Ethics needs not to be sidelined as a pain but as a full partner at the table of medical research.
    Think tanks funded by neutral funding resources with all concerned folks dialoguing.
    Doctors need to hear parents, researchers need to hear and see patients face to face, funders need to talk to all involved.
    Profit should be taken off of the table of consideration.
    Good things have happened with medicine and to her sciences but just because good things have happened or are happening in no one removes the ethical onus for all involved to use ethics as a guiding light so that shadows can disappear or kept to a bare minimum until animals are never used.
    The use of cadavers, dead embryos, all need a long and deep conversation.
    We not fear dialogue and strong feelings and tiring thinking. We just need to do it and move on to a better way of acting and creating helpful information.
    As you can tell, the arts also need to be pulled in. There are great television episodes, novels, movies, plays, folktales that can provide perspective and guidance.
    An Ethics Profession using all of this could help.
    There are some and those who work or work in hospitals know about Tumor Boards and meetings trying to figure out what happened to a medical nightmares. The Ethical Review Boards that really are more show than anything else because they are considered dangerous and or superfluous.
    We are all humans, imperfect beings at best.
    We all need to listen to our better angels in every way. There will aways be issues, the having to take the better choice versus the best choice.
    But as long as that choice was well considered and worried on that is okay.The concept of trying is the true golden rule. We cannot ask anymore. Good and true caring ethical human effort.

  • I thought animal research was now banned. Is PETA still active and if they knew of your studies they would be outraged.
    Abuse is abuse whether with human and or animal subjects exposed to possible toxic chemicals.
    I would suggest you read about the LSD and other experiments foisted on willing and or unaware subjects. Also read Richard Adams “Plague Dogs.”
    Once I and others felt clinical trials were at the cutting edge of the best medical thinking of the time. I have learned with rue and regret the powers that be co-opted much of medical research for the advancement of fame, wealth , and glory.
    There is a wide spectrum on what is and is not acceptable in research.
    There needs to be a firm ethical foundation and do no harm part and parcel of the process.
    Dialogue and openness and knowledge of history needs to be involved.
    Edward Jenner’s inoculation of himself and family members- worthwhile or not?
    Samelweiss and his concern about hand washing .
    Lister and his concern about clothing of medical folks.
    Madame Curie and her husband and their deaths.
    Terry Tempest Williams and her accounts of families during the era of atomic testing and their resultant medical problems.
    Is this the best we can do?
    There has to be a better way.

  • Maybe a dictionary of terms? It could be self published and it would create interest. I would suggest contacting all and every movement whether it is in total agreement or not and create a safe space to work together discuss, dialogue, and disagree. I am thinking of the King James Bible framework here. It became a literary work of art. There were several main translators and all had their own issues but it worked more than well.

  • Steve, thanks for leaving too! There have been lots but its one of those not talked about things. I have run into folks I knew in the profession and many have walked away if they are able too or some are just putting in time and I mean time in a prison like sense. It’s bad as you know.
    Oldhead private practice can work only if you take on private pay folks. Most folks can’t pay privately and use insurance. Back in the day, it was difficult to get on the insurance boards. Second time around for me I just gave up. Most folks attach themselves to a doc and he/she leads the practice. DX is still needed for insurance to pay.
    Private pay means you need a set skill and you need exposure to the rich. I found you had to go into branding and marketing and that turned my stomach. The other issue in private practice is the need for more and more patients. That is why other family members are immediately seen as cash cows. I would talk about my family and would almost see the therapist salivating because I had several kids.
    It makes good people into money hungry cogs in the system.
    Then there is ethical concerns about where you practice. Do you practice in a community where you live or not?
    I was once offered a great job well paid, neat hours, working with kids but it was in the community where I lived. The kids I would be seeing would be aware of who my own kids where and could possible come to the house. This would create issues if there was any abuse going on and and confidentiality issues. I would never ever say anything but I was afraid the kids would worry and no not the best thing for them. So I missed out. However, stuff did happen and in light of those events it was probably a good decision on my part not to accept.Some professionals don’t mind this but until we all can be open about trauma and getting, giving , and receiving support I still ind it to be dicey.
    Now that I have been in the system I have never been sure if the system grapevine was in effect. When I worked in agencies – it was there and I was aware of the whispered stories and tales – yuck!- so possibly my second foray into private practice might have been hampered – who knows?
    If one had access to wealthy folks one could be a “helper” with those family members in need. But it would be fraught because my guess would be there would be trauma and secrets and skeletons in the closets.

  • Thanks Sarah, this is brilliant! Yes. When a person calls 911 they are never judged in any way shape or form. They could be in crisis themselves yet their word is taken at complete face value.
    I have been a victim of this twice. One was a neighbor who smiled gleefully as she said ” I know what I will do I will call the police.” she overheard a comment I made while she was standing – actually trespassing on my property have having an adolescent blow at me and stated some pretty devastating things. The adolescent took off and the pole came to my house. It was awful, humiliating, and shaming. Luckily, the police where rational but it was close to losing my freedom. The woman was in crisis and she got away Scott free. She had a son in Iraq, had lost a nephew, was raising a niece, and don’t doing to well financially in a well income development. She was a tenant among no tenants.
    She never spoke to me after I brought cookies to welcome here. She had no idea of my life, my education, she knew nothing about me. She had no idea of the medical crisis of my husband, my parents, my children. She had no idea I was a LISW. But she was listened to and obeyed- not me.
    The phone calls to police really bear scrutiny. I don’t think the police like it very much either. It puts them between a rock and a hard place and they are sworn to uphold the law whether the law is incorrect and biased or not.
    There has to be a better way to deal with all of this. I credit the cell phones as part and parcel of an ongoing problem that just keeps on getting worse not better. It’s the propaganda, its Big Pharma, its life after9/11. It’s folks not being able to use common sense. It’s lack of the ability to handle etiquette questions in the neighborhood. Lack of good healthy manners and healthy boundaries.It’s the elevation of psychiatry to religion and holy status.
    Think back thirty years ago. Except for the prevalent racism and in a smaller way -that so many of us missed and were not aware of – this did not happen.
    My mother roomed with a woman who had a daughter with issues of non reality – let’s say. The daughter was in and out of the hospital system – poor one – but my mom was not afraid and she never ever told stories about the police coming and dragging her away. If it had happened she would have told me. Really.
    The militarization/criminalization of mental health and the uptake of “-othering”
    So how and why did this start? And how can we stop it? I wonder about Reagan assassination attempt and others, the Vietnam War protests, and if someone decided to use mental health folks as ducks.
    Thanks again. Keep up the work.

  • Your welcome. Thanks for thinking too! I also have thought about pregnancy as a metaphor for trauma coming from the underrated, often disqualified female point of view.
    Once it happens, it. can never, ever be forgotten now matter what happens. It can be both a curse and a blessing. It can be an awful , awful result of rape, it. can be something very beautiful. Usually it is so to speak a wide and large mixed type of blessing. Like the song “Sunrise,Sunset” an aching awe.
    Not a perfect fit. I guess I was thinking about can curse be a blessing? Ever? I still think you need more than oneself and a concrete metaphor ritual to turn it into something good. Fairytales and folk tales, and liturgy might have hidden or open answers. Community and refuge are in important. I think of “Into the Woods” songs and story and the one titled “No More.”
    Dante’s journey into the woods. Our journey into the ugly briar patch or do harm medicine or do harm by ignorance, sanctimony,patraicharchy, racism, agism, sexism. We weren’t really given a choice to where we journeyed. This is key. Friends, docs, family, those we went to for support led us there through good intentions or not. Remembering the path to hell is paved with good intentions. And can we ever truly get out of this country not of our own choosing?. I think the wind pulls, and invisible hands still have power to send us nightmares and ghosts. It takes a lot to totally pull away and some are endowed with magic shields others through no fault of their own not as gifted. No More.

  • Thanks for putting this up quickly. So what are we going to do?
    I have made efforts to have a nfp trauma place that would offer free alternative therapies similar to one that my local as for cancer patients and their family and friends. It went up to the county board and met with deaf ears.
    I think we all need a place of sanctuary and even then sometimes the hurt is just too hard. But at least if we did have a no questions asked place open 24/7 that ANYONE and I mean ANYONE could do to for meditation, yoga, art, music, horticulture, writing, theater, film. And this would be run by a wide mix of folks WIDE and would highlight things and rooms that envelope folks in the best of their cultural and racial and religious heritage. A blanket so to speak. The room would have icons and ICONS. Anyone is like police officers coming off a night shift, journalists blown away by what they have discovered, mothers knowing that if they don’t get away bad things will happen, workers who have been laid off, teachers having a bad day, politicians losing the election. Actors who did make the cut. Survivors of all sorts who walking unknowingly into triggers.Students. Athletes , Yes doctors and nurses.. Priests, minister, and rabbis, nuns. Volunteer who have just saw too much. Accident survivor, medical mistakes survivors.
    Everyone staffing would be open that we all are walking each other home. All of us.
    This has been done in some places. And I honor them but there are vast areas where all folks have is this website and some others.
    And one cannot not do this alone especially now and if life continues as it is.
    What would Matt want with all of our concerns? How would he best be remembered and honored?
    Is going to the conference- and meeting something that would honor him even if we have issues with some things ?
    Can we get past the curse which was not of our own choosing and lends and lended itself to anger, and hostility, and rage of self and of others and let go and work and agree to disagree? Can we find two core principals and work with that?

    Can we be open about discussing the choice to end life? The most eloquent account of surgical thinking I heard was a tape of a alanon lead by a father a physician who fought nightly with the urge just to end it all. Andy maybe by actual talking and truth telling if not a trauma center, then rooms where folks could go SAFE that is essential. SO essential.
    I lost two grade school classmates to suicide. One classmates lost her brother, in my neighborhood there was a suicide circle after my family left the local. Who knows why?
    I lost a neat acquaintance through her inadvertent death by a relatives suicide. I have had friends, co workers who as parents have lost children. Another classmate lost her father. Relatives have chosen to go home alone but it has been hidden in the family closet.
    And that comes from a fairly privileged background. I do not know how the truly othered folks in our country have kept on going. Some haven’t.
    IT IS A SECRET NOT MANY WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE. And all secrets at least very many are ultimately unhealthy.
    The development of a ritua,or ritualsl to wash of the bad traumas!!!!!!!!
    Again I will keep Matt in my memory.
    Let’s Do Something. At least new steps in some way shape or form.

  • Thanks Michael,
    I went into the field as a dissident social worker and still became entrapped and suffered the curse or maybe irrevocable harm. I also am so sorry about Matt. It is a thin wire we all walk on a times. I will add hi to my memory bank of those who choose to leave. There are many in my life. And that I think is worth a whole blog – the secrets that people carry about don’t tell the hows of a death. The church and its concern about being able to be buried in sacred ground. The trauma of unknown entity, the trauma of family members caught in a web they can never totally talk about in society.I have known folks and have known family members And there is the gossip – the neighborhood stories – this where the women killed herself in the garage. No name only that story with what – the intelligent question is what had or was happening to her?. It’s pain all over. I know even harder stories but that is for a someday writing.
    Your words meet what I have been grappling with – the before and after person. For some it happens during childhood, others adolescence, and for a few of us in mid -age when everything was going okay until non locus of control events created a landslide, an avalanche, or avalanches as Mexico has shown us – lightening can and does strike twice.
    I was never a label person but did fall into using it because eventually there was no other way to work in a system. It was a shortcut that never should be able to be shown in the light of day. I still struggle with my use but wonder how to get an idea across to someone else without spending a long time and with keeping stories private. Another issue that needs a blog.
    For me, there were several layers to the curse working. And maybe you or others could address that. The spell or curse has to have a ritual, it has to have effective energy and the submission of belief from the accursed. I am thinking stereotypical Vodoo here with the representation of a figure and several pins not just one being stuck in its shape.
    Many times, I would rise up and continue on. I had a background and history but the hard things kept on coming fast and furious so I could shake the curse off with time and effort and energy that could have been better spent elsewhere. And the false starts, and going in not the best direction also created fertile ground and space for the curse to work. I am talking NAMI here at least my local version – I am talking trying to search for the “right”doctor/’right’ therapist/”right” method.
    I am talking of wearing the curse as a badge of honor – Thank you Glenn Close.
    The psych docs NEVER EVER listened to the extent of trauma I had or was having in my life. I was other and I could see the fear in their eyes – literally. I was typhoid mary to them. And I think there was anger – many were male, many from foreign countries with a patriarchal system eons in the making. How dare I question and give them troubles? And they cursed me and finally it worked.
    After having a Lithium toxicity reaction and put in seclusion because it was never properly diagnosed until I found the correct dx in the charts several years after.
    In the more very prison like secure unit I was told by an aide that they were going to put me in a Nursing Home.
    That was their curse by proxy. It worked very well. I still at times
    carry it.
    My family members have no idea, no ability to conceptualize the horror of that experience. Friends and family continue to think I will rise again and go on and be the self I was prior to my time in country. They don’t understand that they and I lost the me who was.
    It doesn’t mean that I can’t continue on in life or do things, or learn things. It just that I do not have the self concept factor I had before the system ate me up. Things got worse after that so the pink slipping which was a visual and experiential cursing made the recovery that I had obtained in trying to lift the curse – it was basically obliterated. And now once in a while small things – unexpected encounters- can make things so much more difficult and other landslide happens. The curse is redone and revealed again.
    One really needs closure. I in fact have used empathy rage to curse back the invisible perpetrators. But wanting those others to feel my pain and angst is only reharming me with echoes.
    I would love for their to be a ritual to take away the power of the curse. Even if someone took the place of the various professionals who harmed me. And I could make a grounded truth story to them. It would be helpful.
    The other issue is the recovery issue. If you talk about cursing how can you recover? If some folks like many here on this site have been repeatedly cursed how to overcome?
    Not all of us will have the opp for truth and reconciliation most not.
    Can we have a OZ moment where the three friends are given awards not for what they had but what they struggled with? So the Cowardly Lion is given a badge of Courage despite his fear issues.
    There has to be a solution. You don’t want a curse to stop expectations just the acknowledgement that pieces of who you were have been lost and scattered. It’s a different you and that takes time for all to mourn , to grieve, then adjust and make any need accommodations.
    Maybe the ability to tell the hard truth to family and friends so that they understand completely how and why the pieces were lost and scattered. Even professionals need to hear this . How?
    And trauma so much in the world, so little ability for humanity to cope well with it and in these times my cursed life mirrors the world at times. Grace and grit and maybe a miracle or two would help. thanks again. mary

  • Hi Help, You found this site – that in and of itself is a very good thing. I know hope sometimes its a word that hurts more than helps at times. Just hold on and walk a step by step breath by breath life and read. IT would be so nice to have mini and or large trauma sanctuaries open 24/7 to go to when hope is lost is the junkyard of life. They have a small version for cancer folks in my area. Not open all the time but enough with free alternative therapies and support groups. Everyone deserves this type of support ACROSS THE BOARD. And we all need group support to help deal with our memories of the trauma that we lived through in the psych units. Reparation monies from the Psych docs and guilds and Big Pharma folks.
    How did the Japanese-AMericans fight for their reparation? Learning and gaining knowledge helps with the despair!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pick something and learn, then pick something else, and learn some more. Walk, hug trees – do different things, try different libraries, thrift, volunteer to walk a dog at a dog shelter, buy a goldfish, write a letter to someone. PEN PALS. ANYONE?
    AND TRY TO KEEP CONNECTING. THEY MADE US ASHAMED. Try to believe even when you don’t feel like it that we are worthwhile and valuable. Call your Senators and Congress members. Sometimes they will talk to you!!! Thats one interaction with another adult who doesn’t know your history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Understand the anger. I have relatives on meds. I give them my views.It’s a hard call even when I was aware at some point I fell into line with horrific results for me.
    Just so you know. Sometimes the options are very, very poor. A old old friend was a social worker way back before the 1950’s. She had a lovely family with a very very brain damaged CP small child that could only literally cry. There was no capacity for human emotion – my guess is that the brain must have been malformed or something awful happened. As a social worker she and she was very aware of the maltreatment in institutions tried to help the family get the child in the institution for relief . the child screamed and slept, screamed and slept in a non cyclic way. the family had go to court their petition was denied because the state would only take children five and beyond. there were no meds then just placement in an attic. Not good.
    Until all of you can use the brains that I know you have to open your minds that sometimes despite. the bad bad issues sometimes people have the right to use medications as the only option left. If yo
    Be kind, have mercy. If you haven’t worked with DD folks with severe impairments don’t comment. it shows. You are getting angry at the choir. Here . And yes. I am anonymous and yes I have been on the other side. But don’t do what Big Pharma does and paint everything on just two sides. The snarky stuff does not become you. Keep your minds open when triggered and in anger. And I have empathy rage – sometimes I want folks to feel what I have felt in solitary confinement.- Walk away and write on a different day. WE need all of your voices just not the voice coming from the trauma and suffering we all had. I think of Mandela. Years of prison. We all can do this. And I will tell you I fail all the time and my curses are truly vile.. If I was a Big Pharma person I would be shuddering!! Yikes!

  • If we are talking children here, America has a terrible track record with the support of children. Politicians and others talk a good story but that is what it only is a tall tale. Child care, education, support for parents, support for disabilities, good education for those who do want to help as in Social Workers and I would say even the medical students is laking in historical content and context,and in critical thinking. The isms are pushed aside and swept under the rug. What is honored and put on the alter is profit, greed, and getting the best deal at the lowest price. And yes country clubs and cars, and high end fashion and jewelry. Those things are considered ultimately as more important than families and children in our country. Vets who were knowingly exposed to hard things have to fight to get proper treatment and if you come from a lowballed, low exposure culture or group watch out- the system will and can eat you up.
    There are good folks scattered among all the layers. The trick is to find them and somehow connect a thread to one another with not only exposure but some sort of active force that will in the end blow down the tower of blocks that these adult toddlers have built. One can always hope.
    Thanks for all your voices.

  • Truth I agree but as one who has seen and experienced multiple perspectives- even I would have to admit there can be rare circumstances that usage is the only option left. That is why there needs to be trauma sensitive treatment, money for standard and alternative treatments, well paid and cutting edge informed staff from janitors up the line.
    There is such a thing as disability fatigue. My family has been very very aware and our ability to handle difference and otherness fairly high though definitely not perfect. Our family has had a multiple perspective on disability through personal experience. One family elder came back from a family event and said there were just too many disabled folks to have a relaxing time. And this was said with love. If we are going to a near if not complete medication philosophy then we must acknowledge and accept families and staff will need supports just as much as those in need or crisis. Lopsided approaches and views are ignorant and doomed to failure.
    Trauma informedmeans thewhole 9 yards,the whole cobbdle from
    prevention to everything else.
    It also means we must all accept we fit into the other category now and then or lifelong. Sometimes both- sometimes on a variety of different levels. Use of chemicals should only be used as a desperation measure. If services were really well funded, proactive, and all encompassing I would hope greatly that the option would be used if at all very very infrequently.

  • Too long in coming but I will take it. Thanks. There has been a long history that is mostly covered up behind this research. Back in the days of institutions, there were attempts to separate folks based on cognitive function but this was after WW1 and the indriduction of IQ testing in soldiers. Many inmates were commuted due to all sorts of issues and many times those with nonsimilar issues were committed. I still remember a an “inmate”of a state institution for the Developmentally Disabled trying desperately to use the very weak process available to him to get out based on the fact he was not developmentally diabled.
    In some states services are tied together in other states not. Therefore many times the monies go in unequal portions to Developementally Disabled systems rather than “mental health”
    This creates a wedge among family members – jawbreaking at times to me. On the radio I heard a sister of a developmentally challenged woman state – “but she’s not crazy”
    In another instance if a life long MH labeled man say-“but he’s not retarded”
    Many folks after deinstulization started taking place went directly to nursing homes – even children.
    I can easily see how medication was used to make it easier on staff with bare bones staffing and almost no training.
    Many group homes are run by immigrants and they bring their own trauma issues with them which adds another layer to the mess.
    Monies are barrel scraping for many programs- like many areas of social services in our country today and that makes the use of medication the go to response BD with the historical amnesia and lack off i depth education and training many programs are being run by administration and staff who are completely ignorant about best practices.
    The other issue not addressed here but should be is the high rate of abuse. Developmentally disabled folks are prime targets and putting them on these types of medications only aids offenders. In a state wide training on offenders they interviewed a hospital staff member who worked with
    compromised patients and abused them knowing they had no ability to tell on him.
    Another issue is how to handle problematic behaviors. Medication should be at the very end of the line. The idea of “least restrictive environment”isessential. Every
    every program that works with folks in need needs to have a team approach and medical ethicist on board.
    Expensive yesbutwho everpriseddoing the right thing would be easy or inexpensive?

  • Thanks Eric and to your mother. The concept of other has been so problematic in our human history. I always wonder what the story is on the Neanderthals. They intermarried, 3% of our genes come from them but how did they disappear?
    Lepers in the Bible, the mark of Cain- such a long, long history.
    The concept of “” the wandering Jew”
    It boggles the mind. In our present history, even Winston Churchill had his leanings and ideas. The funny thing is- those who mightly support fear of the other usually have stuff hiding in their own closet.
    And btw- never feel ashamed or try not to feel negative about any of your writing where you were in process of any different state of mind. Sometimes writing is the only helpful thing. But I understand. Thanks again for this.

  • Amity and Darby thanks for bringing Kate’s death. The article was great. There are a lot of connecting threads to her story in my life story.
    One is her experience in the old style institution. Yes. I was in several as a vistor and intern.
    And she was more spot on then she knew.
    One summer I worked in a small basement room in my county’s probate court microfilming old commitment papers. It was clear the scam was on for many folks by family members. And there was always the death certificate months later for many.
    Someone needs to research these records.
    And the saddest part for Kate and for myself was we were forced to going to a place we already knew was hell. RIP Kate old gal.

  • No. The premise is finehope/hopelessness but no. No mention of trauma and s second person account versus the actual article. Please stop publishing these pieces. I find them a waste of time and energy.The are masked as helpful when really they are the same old same old,
    The once now and then interesting depth filled articles are almost not worth reading.
    Central American,South American, DACA, and the Hispanic view of past and present common treatment oractice would be much more interesting and helpful.The livesif so many activists have Ben lost. Presents to all of them. Speak your true voice.

  • Eric to clarify my writing.
    My fault- Torrey was on the scene in the early 1980’s trying to promote that a winter reoccurring virus caused the s word. If you were born in certain months he tried to prove their was a greater risk due to this virus idea. He didn’t strike me as strident and rigid but that was before I was in country.
    There is information on the badge system used in the cc camps. The guards used it for easy identification of what prisoner class an inmate was. Sounds horrorific and would overlaying even more future affects in a survivors family.
    I never knew about the labeling system until now Look under shaming badges.
    In my area a lot of NAMI folks have been Jewish and I wonder about the dynamics of that. Don’t want to comment further because it is not my story.
    The badge usage ties into color coding. My last stay in country I was forced to wear bright orange patient wear for two days after admission.
    Shaming badges- shaming clothing / essentially the same thing except patients are supposed to be there for help.
    The whole industrial/prison system especially in some areas / read here Arizonia is rife with this thinking process. Again not my story but we need to hear and maybe help.
    To think a WWII refugee was able to be the first American medical doctor to identify child abuse is informative. His cohort Fritz Reidel was among those who conceived the concept of therapeutic mielu.
    Anna Freud worked with refugee children in England. She and her father were very late refugees from Germany.
    Bruno Bettelheim was also another refugee who worked with children and later committed suicide. No one wants to acknowledge that can of worms.
    You may not agree with all that they did but they came from war and it informed their life.
    Children and adult children of War vets are beginning to realize secondary trauma in their own lives.
    I am thinking each of us as the ability to handle stress present and past and sometimes the stress becomes so overwhelming you go into altered states. And each person is unique and their circumstances are unique . This is not being acknowledge in the system.
    Thanks again!

  • Thanks so much Eric.This is the work that I think is so important.
    Torrey, at first was into a virus cause and did work on birth dates and Ireland. That has been around for a long long time maybe 1950’s but the historical story and other abuse stories point much more to trauma and secondary and tertiary trauma.
    Check out the badge and color coding schemes used in the camps in Germany and other places such as surprise! Institutions of all kinds.
    Some of the refugees from Germany developed into interesting voices for children. C. Henry Kempe and Fritz Reidel among others. Not perfect but aware in some areas.
    Keep up the good work!

  • Thanks Sera! I just commented on this on another social media site.
    I would direct folks to put on their presidential historian hats in and do research. Have issues does not preclude you to being a great president. Massive amount of words have been written about Lincoln and please check out his wife Mary Todd Lincoln. Hers is a hard story.
    Behavior, behavior, behavior should be the way to remove a president from office. Choice is involved.
    We all need to speak up. I don’t know how to get away from the stinkin thinking you so elequently described since it involved those in MH Mt Olympus.
    I am repulsed by all of our leaders aspects but at the same time I can also appreciate how some folks voted out of desperation.
    What have we come to? I can only hope that something good will find its way like a weed and push trough concrete cracks.
    My guess is that he and others despite money despite background had trauma – it was covered up and hidden and they choose to continue to wallow in it rather then stop and at least try to turn around.
    As the song goes…. “You have to be carefully taught…”

  • Thanks Richard! Yes. In many cases an opioid is one of many meds prescribed. Spinal surgery folks can be given pain meds- benzodiazepines, ant- depressants. In some ways it is good to have pain control but there is a plethora of ignorance on the part of medical folks on how to do good withdrawal. There is also the lack of coordinated teams that could introduce alternative methods of pain management. PT and OT folks and the alternative therapies all have ways which taken together could help end some of this problem.
    If support from insurance and medical administration folks would come in team work and review for each patient that would be great. Money continues to be the only bottom line these days.
    To have a doc – no matter who or how good function well with time limits, paperwork issues, and lack of inter and intros professional interaction is the work of the corporate devil.
    No one can do well with complex human medical and emotional issues totally ensconced in an insurance and hospital administration cell.
    We see what has happened.
    My fear is what will happen.
    I believe those of us who have seen the machinations of the “Mental Health” side of things are the true and vivid canaries in the coal mine. And look what happened to them when disaster struck.
    I worry in my worst moments that we have all become canaries and the coal miners are aware but the Company folks are willfully oblivious.

  • Also many docs throw in SSRI for pain management for long term sometimes lifetime pain issues. But sometimes they throw them in just throw them in without really thinking.
    This whole issue needs much much more discussion and research. For those unfamiliar with pain management in the last century there were issues especially with folks who had sickle cell anemia it became a war between staff and patient about the realty of pain.
    This was also before alternative methods were considered real options.
    So there is a history and view that’s needs to be acknowledged.
    Again so much more with everyone involved needs to be done.

  • Richard yes that explanation of the difference between addiction and dependence from proscribed medication is excellent. I saw that happening before my very eyes with a relative who luckily was more aware than the pain management doc. I also talked to an addiction specialist who was seeing the same issue. Interestingly he said he heard about Robert ‘s work on the radio and literally had to stop driving to listen.
    As a tip for those who know or are folks dealing with pain issues- meds can come in strips one can cut them and titrate them down as needed. Some docs are unaware of this option to handle pain -one can walk away from the meds. My relative used all sorts of alternative methods and walked away.

  • I have been silent on this site. I have looked at the various contributions and they have all had interesting thoughts .
    There still seems and this commentary proves it again- a divide between users and non user professionals. Whether they have lived experience is never mentioned and that creates more of a divide on this site. Is it fear based or did they just get lucky or does status play its hand even with a female based cohort?
    Glad this is being thought about but meh because it is so all encompassing – the range – used is or seems overwhelming.
    The best folks to be actively involved with actual power to talk the talk and monetary ability to walk the walk would be those with multilateral experiences.
    Until you have been pregnant one just can’t conceive – no pun intended- how life is changed forever. We as a world community keep on looking to professionals even with the best intentions who just miss the boat because as in male Ob/Gyn cant talk the talk or walk the walk.
    A movement needs folks from both sides in an equal concurrent community. Actually, from the whole spectrum.
    Seneca Falls and the meeting way back before that. Check it out -African American females and others working for rights of both.
    We just need to do it and folks will come like an open audition . Scary kind of very Who knowsish but look at how many stats have been found in theatre or sports. One lighted candle showing the way.
    Think folks. Work together. Listen and professionals be humble. Some of you never ever would have suirvived by what we survivors have and had been done to us.
    Blogs with both folks – a written conversation would be a good start.

  • Wow Madmom you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Yes and to add- we live and probably have always lived in a world encircled by trauma. We have had the tools and analysis for this over time but it keeps getting lost or pushed down
    Freud deals with it in his writings on anxiety. Right there- the words about a person coping with danger.
    What you describe is almost like the process one goes through when one is taken hostage. And NAMI and professionals were- no doubt about it. The CEOs and others in the power cycle acted as offenders- the Pharma vacation package to docs like a rape walk by a sexual offender – check out what the lay of the land is
    So how to get eyes and ears opened up?
    How do get the offenders a juminy cricket and or a growing nose when lying?
    Thanks to Robert for bring up a framework which allows dialogue too
    I have struggled with my anger but am also aware resentment is the poison that kills you. Hate does not make great.
    But one also has to experience the outrage and other feelings in order to walk through the wailing wall.
    My guess and best bet is the CEO folks and others on the other side have unresolved trauma issues as well.
    They used power tripping and money as coping mechanisms to the great loss of us all.
    If South Africa can work towards betterment of atrocious times, if other countries can do so in fits / starts and Good progess – this should be doable. The trouble is human lives are being irrevocably damaged tonight on the wards, in the prisons, in the nursing homes and group homes where staff is mandated to act in ways they might not believe in.
    And now more than ever there are restrictions in what can be done with activism.
    There has to be something doable. I willl as always keep putting my thinking cap on.

  • In Europe there were institutions that had families of physicians and staff living-eating-playing with patients. It was not unknown to have a former patient become a professional . Frieda case of Dora is an example.
    Rorschach -who developed the test had some interesting thoughts worth exploring and the test itself.Food for thought.
    Thanks for exploring I don’t think I could have done it!
    And thanks for bringing up incarceration.
    The private prisons and private detention centers all need voices.
    What I long for is more of a solid network of folks working together to institute a new narrative and change but I still like your hope
    Why not try?

  • Thanks Sera for this and all the comments.
    I originally as a professional was turned off by NAMI but felt badly. This was before trauma and generational trauma was really talked about. Then when I allowed myself to be pushed in the system I felt I had no where else to turn to in processing my own trauma. It was not helpful and I discovered in my locale MAMI had over run the narrative. I went to one walk it was small and ran into other professionals who said they came out of pity.
    However the hospitals and social service agencies were big time supporters.
    Management and administration love this philosophy even as you know Sera journalism folks do not question the narrative.
    I have had NAMI folks come to a church Reiki healing volunteer project and proudly spout the propaganda.
    I thought the church was progressive but it had its NAMI ties.
    Open AA meetings are more real about emotions and issues with trying to get help with things other than meds. Old timers were no meds then the wave of folks made it so they too were pulled in now it seems like they are more more open.
    Best talk on suicidal thinking was at a alanon meeting- go figure.
    I would suggest folks read Jane Mayer Dark Money because I think that is part of what we are dealing with.
    My concern for myself after my forced hospitalization is safety.
    I keep looking for a good place to move but fear doesn’t strike out yet.
    So speaking out in my local is fraught and wrought. There are supportive folks but in these times I just don’t know. The worst part is I have so much to offer. I feel my insights and gifts are being wasted and diminished every day.
    In the old days there was so much more latitude and openness to difference at least when I was a teen.
    I think a buddy system and use of a 12 step type of narrative might work
    Telephone trees or email chains.
    One trouble for me is that I feel I have been burned by reaching out and I am unsure like I guess many others are which folks are safe.
    The best memory I have ofvrecent times is going to a panel of self labeled autistic adults. It was held at a center developed and run by parents. One of the speakers ended by saying and asking why there were not autistic folks on the board and why they all couldn’t have more of a voice! Yes! She spoke out and received a round of applause. The panel was organized by an advocate coach who like me when I worked felt folks sometimes need help but they should be in charge and take flight on their own wings.
    Fear has continued and forceably been instilled in our narrative by others.
    This has made it doubly hard to speak out and be listened to.
    I also don’t want to burn down bridges for those in NAMI who just need open eyes and ears.
    Theatre folks might be a way to get the word out with new works with talk backs . You don’t get that with movies.
    And we also have to be open to all the isms that are inherent in the system and for me in my perspective.
    Sometimes I don’t see all the ways I have lucked out.
    And not to shut down. Sometimes hard not to do.This dialogue has been great. Thanks to all.

  • In regards to your wish in the last paragraph. And thanks for the work – it saddens that it has come to this in our research world.
    In my area,NAMI had implicit power to expose the medical school students and residents to carefully picked folks who would relate how the status quo of the system worked well for them. These folks were picked by staff who might not have had any professional training. At one meeting another woman and I were dismissed because of our expressed views that did not fit into the narrative. In our area, the journal news venue would come out with a reformed surivi or who had been a media flashpoint and now had seen the light and repented of their ways.
    Many medical residents that see folks may not have received trading in the states. This creates a double edged sword hanging over patient’s head because they are dealing many times with medical folk who are only told the one narrative and may come with a cultural background that is patricharal and could be elitist.
    Their ability to hear people’s suffering and trauma is diminished at times.
    With the emphasis on medication so much is thrown effectively down the toilet in terms of any good that the profession achieved at times in the past.
    The concept of true Auepiscaplian sp? is lost, torn asunder, and rent to the pyschiatrist’s very soul.
    I admire the ones who hold on to the inherent moral practice of the Hippocratic oath. It still is not easy for them.
    I would think drastic intervention is the only way to change the power dynamics-
    Even if at times chemicals work for some the issue of where the MH world is belies a sense of things being on the right track.
    Look at Polio-scabies these conditions showed drastic change not a slippery slope into hell.

  • Monica you brought me back. Thanks for your words.
    As both a survivor and a retired LISW I share your perspective in some ways.
    I worked in the field for over twenty years before being pulled into the system by uninformed family, all of us traumatized by ongoing criss issues, uninformed friends, and “helpers” who really didn’t help.
    The worst was the trauma of hospitalization.I knew what a decent looked,acted,and felt like. These units were prison- nothing more-nothinging less.
    As a professional, I worked assiduously to treat the relationship as a team effort.
    I took time to establish trust and when something bad went down I told the truth of what I had control of and what I didn’t. So if abuse was acknowledged I told my client the law – prepared them for what would happen and had them listen to my call to the abuse hotline. I tried very hard to let them know it would not be easy and keeping on telling their story to the safest folks they could find.
    I was only there to help them learn to cope with life independently.
    My job as I saw was to put myself out of business.
    I tried hard to have a mutual respect relationship. I learned many things from my clients and sometimes was in awe of how they maintained.
    My issue with the MH professional writings is -at times- you can feel the defensiveness- and I would say fear.
    When one starts out writing- ” I have this- I wrote these books, I have presented these workshops, and most revealing of all – I come from this family constellation – and I am not willing to admit any true hard issues because I am an expert.
    This stance- for me as a reader with both lived and professional experience disbelief, anger,triggered hurt- the stance of power- and ultimately sadness and continued lack of hope that the secret tragedy of MH care will never be totally revealed and change happen.
    I want a dialogue. But it has to be played out on a fair field – a round table like the Paris Peace talks.
    If you read literary critical thinking vocabulary and fiction matters in terms of the power of relationship.
    There are so many people involved in the system that I would really like to hear from. Police officers, aides who work on the units, judges,ect.
    Maybe Robert and staff need to work on some sort of framework for dialogue for all.
    Or some toiols not used now. What about survivor first reads and commentary before a MH work comes out?
    What and how did Bishop Tutu’s commission work?
    Maybe a reading list for potential contributors to read before writing suggested by survivors?
    Hannah Ardnt’s work would be important.
    There are virulent isms all over the MH system from ages and ages ago. It has gotten into the white mean now and U think that is part of why MIA exits. Not the best way but please let’s use this to solve not continue problems otherwise U will not be back.
    Politeness never hurts but the issue of power is fraught and wrought here and U know it might not even cross contributors minds or they just are not sure how or what to say so they go into default pistering mode.
    How can we do this better?

  • Sorry Chaya I did not address your hurt.
    I don’t think there are many fantastic thereuputic relationships. One has to have a gift and one has to be lucky to find that person.
    Kind of like marriage except you are in an truly unequal economic relationship.
    I go back and forth. I try and then stop for a variety of reasons
    We all all looking for that missing piece that would make us feel less hurt or empty fill in the blank
    Sometimes we find in a professional sometimes in a friend
    Sometimes in other acts of alternative stuff and actions
    Ultimately I think we all our hurting and some of us are not only aware but we pick up the vibes and carry them in our souls.
    Keep on walking the walk.You are not alone and I value your presence here. You ran into a bad situation where your support was wounded and did not have the tools strength or skills to deal with your nonlocus of control loss. She could have done several things
    She could have cried with you
    She could have done a ritual
    She could have modeled or talked about how to say goodbye
    She could have advocated for you and the others and told you her actions
    She could and I think had the responsibility to help you have another support
    She could have spoke the truth this really you know what
    She could have resigned
    Or she might have tried and failed and was unable to acknowledge it or talk against the system and in her on life was on the edge
    Best is to forgive piece by piece and bless her because festering feelings thoughts and memories never help us
    Easier said then done as I know all all to well
    Another day or time there could be a place for seeking another but help comes from walks and small things or just having your great writing and voice
    Keep open and keeping the idea of a dream catcher
    The webbed area keeps the bad stuff out the hole allows the good in
    I don’t do any work though I have done peer experiences workshop stuff
    Still dealing with life
    Thanks for putting a light to this

  • Sorry for the typos the lingering side effects of meds and overlay of dyslexia and dysgraphia
    I had made use of supports from social workers in the past but on my own way in my own choice stream and mostly behind closed doors
    Had planned for more but couldn’t squeeze it in too much hell going on
    In past had supervised some one out in the peer community I was only Worker who was willing
    Also tried to get clients off meds in 1980s but wall
    Now I know why they were clueless!
    Being in the worst scenarios has given me 360 almost vision
    Someday would love to use it for all

  • Oh yes for twenty years as a LISW. I dropped it when I became frustrated with the profession and its trajectory in the regional systems.Also multiple family issues made it nigh high to impossible to do good work or advocate for change.
    “Friends”intervened nonprofessional clueless during an extreme nonlocus of control period calling already fragile family members to get me into the system. One so called professional colleague was involved but I am never gotten the details. It started me into the cesspool of meds and seclusion and as ful side effects and totally destroyed my sense of self worth.
    Still recovering from it all
    CV available on request!

  • Thanks Chaya for your thoughts.
    And Steve for yours and the others.
    Therapy is a minefield. There is no good way to walk through the maze and it is a maze with yucky and good things based so much at random which makes it worse for the traumatized person because once again you have little to no agency at a time you really need it.
    I have had a spectrum my issues is that several therapists leaned on me or I was aware enough because of my gifts and training they were not able to handle my life circumstances. Another issue was the complete and utter separate role of the therapist and docs inpatient and outpatient
    It is a huge horrific desert so that the one professional who could at least advocate is also locked out by the medical system.
    Training Steve can provide extra but it in no way shape or form is any sort of guarantee.
    I would advocate for a shamanistic system which is inherently peer sensitive along with a fine tooth selection of useful and helpful wisdom writing from all areas and all times.
    And my work was always to put myself out of a job.
    That was always my shared primary goals and it was a team approach. I never thought I knew it all and was open to see my work asa journey for me as well. The system is so corrupt and rotten that these tenants are little found. The docs are lost like CEO’s.Most have lost their moral souls and compass and are deaf -blind – and dumb in the worst way possible. They do damage on a daily basis and at this point I have have found no good way to put an end to their great damaging of humans.
    This was the most horrorific part for me being in the system. They abused and tortured one of their own and didn’t even care or believe or bother to ask and actually listen to me as a human.
    It was a gift in learning the great pain of disenfranchisement. At least I can use it for good and to finally be brace enough to speak truth to power for all of those caught in horror situations.

  • Emmaline and Elizabeth
    I worked with RD’s and still know some.
    What is important hear is the “othering” unintentionally going on.
    In order to dialogue well and there is a learning curve here
    Read Kein Uris he has a great section in working through listening and responsibility.
    It would have helped if Elizabeth had said
    I hear you and others have a hard time with the use of my terminology in the article
    How best can I reframe those phrases?
    Oh trauma yes thanks for bringing it up and I will have to do more research on that aspect
    Power plays a role even in conversation and now blogging.
    Colonialism 101
    It would be interesting to have a lunquist well versed in oppressive societies do an analysis of the power plays in this dialogue
    May not have been intentional
    but there you have it.

  • Again Elizabeth reread your words!!!!!!!! ” I have found a way to get many people get past their mental suffering.” I am not denying your knowledge base’s truth or ability to help folks. You are not a savior and your terminology is still problematic in my eyes. That’s what got Carl Whittaker, the famous family therapist, in trouble – he drank his own cool aid.
    I think most psych survivors are open to new helpful ways. The terminology you use is important. Mental suffering my foot! Let’s do the time warp again! As far as I know you have no idea what suffering really is. It would be helpful to take off that mask. Get in the mud and find a way to describe trauma issues, nutrition issues, medical issues – pellegra sp? – actually did cause altered mental states as well as syphllis – the environment ! “Silent Spring”.
    I was also a LISW for twenty years in the trenches of urban areas and severe trauma, humility is everything. Again think on it.

  • I understand but everyone needs to think long and hard on how to dialogue with each other in order to change things as the are.
    First is respectful listening with a vocabulary of compassion.
    Then there needs to be an acknowledgement that we all have hidden or visible trauma.
    You can’t be human and not have it.
    You have to take off the masks and get down on the floor
    Some folks do it better than others and it is a learning curve.
    See the musical
    “Fantastic” and “The Madwoman of Chailot” in particular the ragpickers speech.

    And we have to acknowledge we are working on a puzzle with no box top cover to follow.
    We each have pieces and it will take time and effort and mud and dust and ash to deal with the process.
    Psych survivors like myself suffered trauma in treatment and in life circumstance or with something.
    Our feelings and needs for the ability to acknowledge and help deal with inherent triggers in dialogue had to be understood and acknowledged.
    I am very aware that if I use my name and degrees it will be seen and heard in a different light then if I use my name here.
    Same person two sets of realities.
    The voice changes and the stigma begins when you state your full reality many many times.
    Before my time in the belly of the beast I was aware of psych survivor movements and some in the professions.
    At times the ones who opened up were gossiped about and derided behind closed doors.
    I hated that as well and I am so sorry I was not able to stand down their words.
    We all carry baggage memories of what was done and what we could have should have done.
    My concern with this blog was in Elizabeth as well intentioned and so well informed could not hear my plea for compassionate listening and then responding
    She has replied so Thank you for that!
    What is so hard in saying I
    Oh I am sorry
    I never thought about that aspect
    I will try to keep that in mind.
    Not expecting perfection here just real humanity
    Thanks for your reply.

    I am sorry for the hard times.
    What would your family member think of all this?
    Could there be a dialogue?
    Please think on my thoughts8

  • Did you hear me properly Elizabeth?
    Again you used the word mental and you totally ignored the current untenable situation with South Sudan which hilights terrorism and trauma to the max.
    You used the word “they” in a pejorative manner not taking into account or taking the responsibility to share with your readers a fact that every nutritional student in college knows the pervasive desert islands of grocery stores in urban lower SES neighborhoods.
    And the pervasive in your face marketing of the Big Pharma of food companies. They all use the same playbook. They all make tons of money off of us.
    You may have interesting information but that and a cup of coffee will help no one and only continue to hurt your soul.
    Until you allow yourself to go from they to we you will be worst than any the worst of us
    Until you can share in the human world you and your work are nothing
    You are like the APA NAMI Big Pharma all the moneyed interests that care less for others than for themselves
    Read the latest on Syria
    Read the recent books out on mass incarceration
    Read about The Lost Boys of Sudan
    Have you ever once talked with a refugee?
    I have- a family who lived under a card table on the Main Street of Phom Phen sp?
    Have you ever talked to a grown man who was a lost boy? Gentle kind men and so so very fragile with the torture they survived.
    Have you ever spent time with folks in deep deep trouble and trauma?
    Have you ever experienced times if deep deep trouble and trauma?
    Until you can honestly claim both and use the vocabulary of compassion
    Don’t bother replying
    And BTW
    Check out
    Cry the Beloved Country – one of the first of many many good reads on Aparthied.
    Mary O’Malley MSW MFA

  • I do recoil from the term mental illness. Actually it’s a trigger but in order to dialogue with folks until they become more aware I will merely mention my discomfort and put it on the table.
    Please think on it. Your ideas Elizabeth are interesting and very worth consideration as one piece of a multilayered puzzle.
    Where and how that piece is located is still unknown.
    If we take off our 1 st world glasses and take a very painful look at let’s say
    South Sudan and child soldiers who are returned home in apparent altered states nutrition would play a role as well in a big way trauma
    And how do we heal these children much less our own foster children who are experiencing devastating but different trauma as well
    Healing costs in time – money – labor intensive with each individual persons own code so to speak to and for maintained healthy living.
    Cry the Belived World

  • Yes but there is a important historical caveat here. Dry eyes is actually a dumbed down terminology for Syogern’s Syndrome sp? It is related to the immune system and immflamuation
    . It has a high cluster for females. The term has been used for decades and was never something that any of the docs I knew got excited about. It’s an inconvenient but workable medical issue for most people. Having a elderly relative with it I know it wasn’t pleasant but not overwhelming.
    Like most of these issues, I would prefer more research and exploration of nonpharma interventions. Always, always with every medical or actually human issue money and its intricate loops get in the way of good kind just merciful medical intervention.

  • Wow. Thanks for this.I this I was swatted. More than once I fear. At least it gives mea framework to put my situational memories in perspective. The first supposed swat took place with a neighbor who was a tenant of the rented house next store, and whom I had welcomed into the neighborhood with cookies. It was a bizarre scenario and I made a one sentence statement in a traumatic moment ( when family privacy should have been respected) and she gleefully said very out loud,” I know what’ll I’ll do I will call the police!”It was an act of such nefarious stupidity with waves and waves of ramifications that I would do anything to take it out of my memory bank.
    I am glad to know that this is an actual problem and that I am not alone.
    In all my years as a professional Social Worker mother, neighbor,cousin,friend, daughter, sister, niece, peer, I would never ever do something like that to anyone. There are ways and there are ways and our society. really needs to get our act together for all of our sakes. Thanks for the Lind

  • Well hope springs eternal for change on all levels but without complete destruction of everything. I worked with sexual offenders. Not to wash away everything is difficult, hard, and the easier approach would be to throw away the key and prison for life. But then we would not be helping ourselves and would be like so many times in history the oppressed become oppressing. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.I prefer the mud fight messy smelly and difficult and very yucky truth to power is like that. So yes I am not saying be pollyanna all the time but thinking on it, allowing for the possibility that there were underlying and overarching reasons for this horrific fiasco of dead lives and so so much hurt – what happened can never ever be totally undone or forgotten but as Rumi says there is a field beyond right and wrong and for everyone’s souls when the terrible truth is hung out like clothes on the drying line after the the truth telling the penalties and there are always penalties we need to walk into that field together. And I acknowledge some of us will be cursing and none to happy but thats okay nothing in life if perfect -we live in the land of maybe. And my rage has been extreme and ongoing and I still find pockets where I want to do more than scream and yell. Even throwing bricks seems not enough.
    And I know of all the range of issues, all of them and I still say this there are few folks who can acknowledge all of the pain they have caused. It is a learning curve and for some very difficult. A step is still a step to the field. It is the only method I know and have read about that continues life past those awful moments and times of the horror of humans actions done to other humans. The song is a dream hope and dreams are needed.Anger can never be all in all – it will consume everything.

  • Thanks for this. This should have happened long, long ago but I appreciate reading about this. I knew even before I walked through the glass mirror that things were not great and in some places down right bad. It seems things were horrific in many areas in many ways.
    And yes we do need to unite. I love the last song in “Your a Good Man Charlie Brown.” It is – in its very essence – the only way, moral ethical, golden rule way to make this stop and pick up the pieces that remain and the lives that have not yet been lost.

  • Thanks for this Sandra! I envy your ability to speak out clearly and strongly to your fellow peers. I still don’t know how that would go with my college peers. My school was very business orientated like a folks went straight into CPA work and or MBA. The rest of us humanities folks were in the minority.
    BTW. Whatever happened to the medical ethics trend in medicine? Cleveland Clinic did have a designated medical ethics professional on staff who once taught at my college and I actually was in his class. Talk about Upside/Down world. I was being treated by unethical psychiatrists and I was the one with the college credit in medical ethics taught by leader of ethics at a major hospital chain. Way to go medicine!
    Again, thanks. I appreciate your trying though having been on both sides I can get frustrated with process. This was a great effort.

  • Thanks and my very empathetic sympathies. Yes -otherness – is the crime. Look at the horror of Rwanda between two groups of people both sides vilified by the other. In Irish history – to be an informer could get you killed- reasons of why notwithstanding. In stories many are simple folk beset by their own issues.
    Getting a SS check is a red flag. Fear rules. The entertainment industry has colluded with this
    Maybe we need a Untied States of Otherness? That or the island of misfit toys for real.
    We need to unite and work together past all the self and other imposed divisions, barriers, walls, and obstacles. We, Us are such important words. Glad to see you are so brave and active.
    Are you fearful this will happen again? Or with this just the perfect storm? When this does happen how does one cope with the fear?
    The funny thing is most police officers , many have their own issues and many are in or in enforced treatment themselves – a whole different issue MIA needs to shed light on.
    I would surmise like Sandra’s recent blog and others we are all at the mercy of a few and boy have they done a slam dunk job at pulling the wool over all of our eyes.

  • Back in the very old days our local, city hospital was called the Pest House. It was called that because once you went in you usually never came out or if you did survive you were usually compromised with infection. Samelwise sp? was a medical person who realized the concept of infection but it took twenty years for other medical folk to believe him. So when people did need medical care they would delay and then in the delaying if it could have been cured it was too late. This happened to a relative. There are cycles that different systems go through reform -corruption- reform -corruption. Some cycle faster than others. Unfortunately , we are lucky to be living in massive corruption. If only we can be lava for the reformed part!
    If you talk to old time nurses they will say there are big time issues with nursing care as it is done now. With a gray haired nod that it wasn’t perfect in any way shape or form back then.
    Even in ICU’s there is more professional stuff time at the computer monitor than patient care and talk time.
    And even the you are trying to do the 24/7 family caring – it is extremely difficult, draining, and very uncomfortable.
    And mistakes and problems still are present. Just getting an IV put in can be fraught and wrought. When they have to cal the Air Flight team to put in an IV tube for a young girl and you are on the phone to the primary doctor’s office and can never ever to talk him directly almost crying because the third attempt was a botch and the Child Life worker is looking at you like this is sh—
    So this isn’t just an elderly problem this is a crime against humanity. We are in the modern era and our medical care system is back in the 1890’s!! Thanks so much folks who brought this mess into our lives.I would blame the docs and other medical professionals who didn’t speak up loud or strongly, the government and the huge multilayered – multi factored medical corporate industrial complex that put greed ahead of every human life it touched.

  • Dear Suzanne, So sorry for your loss. It’s like an octopus- the systems we have to live in – so many corrupt tentacles that reach out and reel us in yelling or not.
    Yes medical malpractice help is hard to obtain and even when you do I am thinking there are gag rules and confidentiality agreements that make it. difficult for the word to get out to help and advocate for others.
    Haldol has been used for decades to manage patients. It find it appalling its presence is still around to hurt and hider human lives. There was a so called “geriatric dose” in the early eighties when I was working in a urban centered hospital. Trouble was many of the residents and interns didn’t know about it and wrote out full dosages.
    Sundowning is an issue. I wonder now if it has any ties to medicine side affects. Way back some of the nursing staff did try to mange folks without resorting to chemicals. It depended on the affect given by the patients. If you were humorous or easy – no problem.
    Improv is supposed to help with folks. I highly doubt hospital and Nursing Home staff are trained in this type of technique in any way shape or form.
    In our area there was a Elderly Facility Ombudsman which helped families with all the stages of pre admission and then on. There actually was a book written – “Tender, Loving Greed” by a woman who went through something similar to your awful story.
    In some states, private for profit nursing home facilities were used to take on the flow from closed down state institutions – so much for true and real deinstitutionalization.
    I have found some of the newer for profit hospice outfits appalling. Hospice was started with St. Christopher ‘s in London England. I do not think Elizabeth Kubler Ross envisioned the corruption that has taken place in our health related society.
    And yes every person in a hospital bed should be allowed to have family and friend 24/7 support. That this is not allowed in psychiatric facilities is beyond the beyond.
    I would hope some day we can if possible a national day of mourning for those killed by medical incompetence. Maybe a wall? as in a wailing wall not a border wall!

  • Yes Johanna! Absolutely and include in that private prisons! It is the corporationization of the medical-industrial-gorvernment complex. I am thinking of Henrietta Lax here. Her cells provided millions to research and brought about so much for other c cancer patients and look at how she was treated. It was only after a book came out that there was some compensation for the family and even that was wrought.

  • Thanks Sandra and thanks for letting us know how and why you posted this. They wanted exposure to MIA but didn’t want to risk doing it themselves.
    Why don’t professionals who write in the so called ” Mental Health” field write books with their patients and not just their stories. This is co – opting people’s pain for profit. There have decades of these almost narcissistic books where patients lives are used and the “slaves?” stories are used to give them money and media presence and the nefarious coat of wisdom.
    Again, First Do No Harm is forgotten amid the rush to more money and celebrity.
    Where are the morals? Where are the ethics folks?
    Askforcor. I am so sorry for all your family and your son. Yes have him write here or anywhere. Also if you found some NAMI support lucky you! But you have a voice all especially those in power in ANMI and behind the curtain need to hear! Write more! Good luck with concept of community. I like it a lot although I still maintain heterogeneity is healthier than homogeneity.
    With my cousin who had Down syndrome was in both worlds. Her parents said that doing to much out of her Downie world would stress her and she needed to go back to her community. And she was very very well aware that she was different. She was a great rebel and out of the box person. So community needs to be balanced with other communities as well of all kinds. Balance. That is the question of the ages!
    How do well interact with who we have born with our birth tribe that will never not be and then the tribes and clans our lives have given or thrown at us? Can we all take off our masks some day and see we are more like than different.
    Sandra this is the problem I see with your profession though it was less so in some ways is the psychoanalytic days when all shrinks were supposed to undergo treatment at least the shrinks were walking around knowing they had their own issues. With the advent of biological psych this got thrown out the window so that the wall between doc and patient went up higher and higher. This also happened co-currently with the entire medical profession with the demands on paperwork and the disinvestment in society for caring professions.
    My question to you would be since I won’t buy their book. I would say boycott for their lack of courage. And letting you be their whipping child – the question would be did they understand the concept of therapeutic milue and were they well read with the more humanistic professionals such as Redl, Mahler, Fraiberg, Moustakas, Satir, Mosher?

  • Thanks for this Tina. The Native Americans have had such medical, psychological, environmental traumas since western civilization crossed into their lands. It is amazing that they are still standing and fighting! It gives me hope like with other minority confluences of human groupings. So many abuses and deaths and yet we humans still rise.
    Matt, I hear you and I still struggle. I need to be able integrate my lives as a professional, parent, and psych survivor. Some of the things that have happened have been a pink-slipping while I was at a bank. The memories are torturous. I have outed myself in the past to problems. While I did the NAMI thing
    ( I had no other place to turn to talk about my hospitalizations and med concerns. I had never felt comfortable with them as a professional but I was so lonely and so angry. I thought I would give it a try. It only made things so much worse)

    I sent a letter as they suggested to neighbors asking for money. Bad idea I know. And stupid me in solidarity with others used the word ” schizophrenic”. I think that damaged our whole family in the eyes of the neighborhood. And it damaged me when they would call the police on me. It damaged my children and my husband ( a metal health professional) who was so very very ignorant ( not sure why as of now) of what was happening.
    I am super aware of ” the change of tone” many people use when you self disclose. And the problem is you never know who will be prejudiced and who won’t be. It ls like playing Russian roulette sometimes. The risk can be great and future ramifications can have a long road out.
    I would self disclose if I was in a safe space, with a community for support. I don’t have that. I feel the need to move but family issues are still keeping me here. The expsych patient as parent. There are worlds of issues that never get to see the light of day that we folks deal with unable to speak about them.
    So I have done gutsy things. When the bank had the police and EMS I shouted on purpose Michael Brown, Sandra Blonde and when they tried to put in the van I acted out again verbally saying I was a traumatized female and being surrounded by a circle of uniform men was traumatizing in and of it self. For that I was handcuffed, face masked and restrained. So I can be gutsy but sometimes not in the healthiest way for me. I can only hope I gave those men nightmares – so much for serving and protecting. I called them out on their diagnosing of me. I called them out on my history with diagnosing and doing so much better with folks than most of the psychiatrists. And the shrinks knew it! I could have told them my story. That was not allowed.
    This was an awful incident that never should have happened. The whole thing on police involved in mental health is something that is another issue. I can’t imagine any police officer who wanted to go into that type of job have the desire or the personality set to deal with people in crisis. Communities here and everywhere need folks who are trained and willing to provide emotional CPR or whatever to deescalate and help instead of traumatize and hurt.
    So I still need to cling to my pen name. When I have integrated all my history of trauma and abuse and feel safe then I can come on board.
    Could we have an encrypted site for this and for organizing? Organizing again for me is traumatic. I really don’t want to do do the acting out piece again. It wasn’t fun. But I would be willing to share my ideas.

  • Thanks for this Sera and your commentary Tina.
    I would prefer impeachment but can understand why folks are using the view of a compromised president to make s change.
    It reminds me of Riyadh Kipling’s Captain Couregous .
    A vain and nefarious rich young man learns about true courage and kindness from a Portuguese immigrant – Manuel who died saving his life.
    The rich and the celebrities have been godified and are above the law and common human decency expectations.
    Not all but many and our President is a text book example.
    I hope his time can be shortened without the use of psychiatric labeling.
    We seem as a society to be trapped in unhealthy thinking patterns. We will be paying the price. Interestingly, Kipling was caught up in this circular logic during the years and at the start of WWI.He believed in the cause and actively pushed to get his son in the war effort. It took the death of his son and the true carnage of the battle to open his mind.
    Thanks again.

  • This is so frustrating to read not only because of the study but where the study was placed for the general public to read.
    Science always has a place but the complete lack of focus on the infant’s physical,environmental,medical and family variables – in my eyes-negates the results.
    I wish media would have a for every new study or research paper there also would be published another on the same subject matter but with opposite results.

  • Dear surviving the system and Sandra and others,
    This was an interesting dialogue it is a start. Thanks all for your thoughts.
    I think the pain of folks here is palpable and strikes me to the core because I feel it as well. I do wish I could relive my 16 years and undo it all and excise the memories especially the really really bad ones.
    Sandra if you are reading – undoing is on of Anna Freud’s defense mechanisms. Have you read her work?
    Children use it and so do adults though one would like to use sublimation more.
    The damage we have suffered like so many humans do through the Agee is done. No matter how hard we sit for it not to be.- it was. So what do we do with justified anger and outrage. We can use it for good and we can try to let go with forgiveness and acceptance. Not an easy task especially when MH professional folks are unable to go the full ten yards with the idea yes bad things happened, we are sorry, and although we cannot change your past we will try to make amends.
    I think Sandra you personally and others are struggling with acceptance of this paradigm and I thank you for the initial efforts.
    One way might be a medical record line line tool to strike out the label and diagnosis in our charts. Some sort of mechanism to undo the label forever.
    What do folks with Type II diabetes have in their charts when they successful end the issue by diet and other means?
    Maybe this needs to go throughout the medical world.
    Strike Out the Diagnosis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Thanks so much for this Matt. And thanks Lloyd for bringing up Margret Mahler’s work with whom Selma Fraiberg followed. There were issues with this approach but lots of important good things if a person who was in trauma and crisis could get a person like Lloyd. Not many around the country especially these days and in our recent past.
    It made me want to cry reading this because if I had the option this is a person I would have gone straight way for help. I was never able to reference Mahler, or Fraiberg Or Real, or some many other folks because they people who were on the insurance boards or who saw me were unaware and uninformed and I was in too much of crisis to be able to think about what there knowledge base was.
    I was being evaluated by folks who had never read or s studied what I studied and never had the intelligence, medical and professional ethics, and curiosity to ask or see me as an intelligent professional and parent with loads of life and yes maybe even goodness to share. I was seen as other and as a dangerous other. This is what I s till need to cry for. The drugs and trauma took the ability for me to cry away. I have times where I think I should be crying But am unable to start. Because of the lack – anger is easier to draw upon. Bad all the way around.
    The idea that Lloyd articulated so well of the opposition an anger and rage being legitimate emotions and steps up the ladder of life development is so true and so very very very MISSING in our society and in the psych world. Greed and little minds and extremely tiny hearts rule. And how can they all sleep at night?

    Matt, I think you need to do some research on Aeuspcalian sp ? Authority. That is the contract that lay folks consent to when having a medical issue or crisis. We give power over to professionals who are suppose to help. The contract in psych world has always been corrupt ( looking at its history) and there have been bubbles of times and only in certain lucky places where the contract was not broken and it worked.
    There will always be sickness and there will always (if we survive in our world of ours as it is today) people who have been traumatized in primary ,secondary, or tertiary ways.
    How can we put in place a working contract for dealing with this in a healthy way?
    How. can we create a new paradigm of healing for all?
    Lolyd’s way created way problems too – see and read Se Miller’s “Family Pictures” for what went wrong with that approach in the past.
    There will always be mistakes made, errors created even with all the best intent in the world. The proverb ” the path to hell is paved with good intentions” is around for a good reason.
    How can we all redo and put in place the idea that nothing is perfect, anger will there for good and sometimes not good reasons, but the idea that
    trauma doesn’t have to be a fuel for misery, it can be a tool for strength.
    We cannot be afraid of each other. How to teach empathy to folks who are committing abuse of the A sp
    contract and how to get them to apologize for what they have wrought?
    We need a framework and we need a think tank.

  • Great Idea. Good Luck.The DSM was only supposed to be a codifying tool with the use of symptoms that never were based on anything scientific in the best sense of the word.
    It was all about human being ‘s observations of other human beings with a nonegltarian bent.The observer had ultimate control of the observed.
    There was as in all medicine a silent agreement that this relationship and balance was in the best interest of the patient.
    people yielded to this relationship with the hope that the entire ethics of the Hippocratic Oath would be abided by.
    If one was lucky with being at the right place – at the right. time – with a ethically good person. One may have been helped. Ultimately many, many folks were not.
    The idea of trauma and sense of true medical ethics was smashed.
    It became a handbook for another round of snake oil salesmen like the Victorian Medical medicine men whose practices preyed on the so called “hysterical female.”
    Let’s bury the book.

  • Thanks for all your commentary here.Life just has been so hard for your family and that is so unfair. I am glad that your daughter is better. Coming out of inpatient and even other monitored living arrangements is difficult.
    It took me years to begin to be able to verbalize what happened to me and I was a former mental health professional.
    Continued good luck and hope for some peace.

  • Thank you Katie for this. It describes so well the dilemma we as psych survivors or folks now in various levels of the system on various sides of the system have to face.
    When I was in as a professional there was a lot of gossip about folks who were professionals who had come out about their history. Many times it wasn’t mean but there was a definite change of vocal tone and general sense of unease at best. Worst was the mocking.
    For awhile I followed NAMI and that was the worst choice of my life. Telling usually doesn’t help since we are never given passes.We are always watched and beholden to others.
    The sad fact is I think that many folks are taking meds and they don’t share that. That makes everything so much worse!
    Glad you have your space. I still open to find it someday.

  • Well it seems as if this is a better alternative to just drugging I have some concerns.
    There is no mention of why the kids were depressed. Big important factor in assessment and treatment.
    The treatment scenario highlights multiple approaches and seems isolating
    What must kids need – if they are safe are peers fun and a way to get out of their me-ness.
    Some of these approaches work but should be done in a community setting.
    Volunteering,job, creative activities,art,music,theater,comic book club, whatever works and fits best.Parents – even ones with great weaknesses- still know their kid best
    Some need lots of help -some just need a different pair of eyes
    Kids just want -desperately need to feel okay about themselves and to be able to contribute somehow to the world
    Riding a bike – same process
    Each person is different but most of us are able to learn or there are creative ways to make it possible
    And btw DBT is for the birds- not in a good way

  • Thanks for this Sera. This has been an ongoing issue for me. I remember an episode of ER where the adolescent was being drugged and wanted to stop but was not allowed to. The leap from “Splendor in the Grass” to this movie says sadly too much.
    I find the concept of DID interesting because for me going into the psych world and then trying to do the psych survivor world it is like having different personalities or living in different worlds or realities. I had over fifty years as a an “aware” but not really “aware’ professional and then my less than twenty years of psych world.
    It reminds me of the old children’s book”Caps for Sale” which cap am I going to wear today?Actually my memories keep all the caps on. But I still haven’t integrated them into my entire self. They are so bad, at times horrific in terms of hospitalization that I think I and others really need a ritual to process them and go on with life. Sometimes I escape the memories but that requires no integration. Some day I hope to accept all of me.
    The issues are so complex, so deep, and twisted I find myself getting snickered and then oh no sets in. Movies, and books, articles, and news so can all look good at first and then no.
    And how does on fight Hollywood? Especially when there is so much yes and needed – to steal from Improv- Yes for some folks meds work and for many others they really really don’t.Many don’t want to listen after the yes if you are working that way. Sometimes No is louder though less nuanced for better and for worse.
    “King of Hearts” and “Madwoman of Chaillot” are movies and or plays that show a less fearful aspect to psych world. We desperately need modern and better versions.

  • I feel the need to clarify my first post. I used Alice Miller because not only did she discuss childhood trauma she also discusses the systematic non-caring of children in our society. The rule of silence is golden is still too sadly true.Children now are products for advertising. How much money can they bring to the coffers?
    And when one is in the grips of the Big Pharma lie and one sees their child getting abused, or hurt, or in academic trouble it is easy to go for the chemical brass ring. It is the only ring one has at times or is given to you. To search out and follow through with other treatments requires time, money, and energy that many parents or caregivers just don’t have.
    Glad MIA is getting on the parent bandwagon. There also has to be the acknowledgement that sometimes parents are on the rat wheel just as much as their children.And how to we help those families?

  • Hi Margaret, Thank you for your sharing and congratulations! I can so understand where you are coming from on multiple levels. Its so hard when your are off medication and the people who are in your support network have no understanding of why you are on the journey. It would really help if there were support for people going through withdrawal. Kind of a support system people who helped out with those who were dying from AIDS. Not exactly the same level of seriousness but I think to be fair to those around us who see us in distress they need to have skills in helping us live and survive the distress. Another metaphor would be the ancient Druid schools where they induced an altered state. Most schools have PTAs and I would guess back then there was probably either a formed or organic support group for the families of druids or druids to be.
    I think the intent of NAMI was sort of like that but they were taken off course in one of the ultimate acts of evil I can think of.The Pharma folks saw an entrance and ran with it. Talk about birds of prey.I have tried and am still working through this with others. There is no societal pathway for this mutual experience to follow, I guess we are making it ourselves.Blood,sweat, and many ,too many tears.
    Good for you. I hope one day to follow in your steps.

  • Thanks Stephen an waitinseattle for your comments. Yes I agree not accepting the memories is worse than denying them. My problem has been twofold. I live in a state that just ended their one peer organization ( not that it was great but it was there) and I don’t have a cadre of peers to work through the memories – other than this site. It would help to have sometime processing them and doing some rituals and letting them release any negative hold. I don’t do advocacy or community protest or walking or anything now after the police incident. I do better when I am away from the state and the local. And some Social Workers are great. I think the divide I have found is because I would like a more peer yes I have been there component. That is missing and that is a big loss.
    It ‘s also invisible too. After the police incident which I ramped up on my own recognizance because I felt I was stuck no matter what I said and I was coming from white privlege so I shouted out some names and acted out. I know bad idea but I thought and felt I was in a corner and if there was scene I was going to make it a social justice scene.
    So now I am stuck inside. A religious group had Circle the City with love march and praying and handholding and no couldn’t go – twice. A group of friends that knew as me as nonmad – no can’t go. I can’t keep up the behind the closet door anymore but there is no safe way out. Triggers everywhere. I jump every time I see a police car. I have relatives who are police. Can’t visit or go there anymore.
    The bank that I was in. All. I wanted to do was talk about withdrawing some of my holdings – A t topic my family and friends knew I was thinking doing -the person that called the police. I have no words for her. My anger is hard and I am trying to forgive but it’s so hard to forgive when there is no Sorry.
    Eve, think on that for a while! How will the medical profession apologize?

  • I am glad you are brave enough to post here. When I read all of your experiences and travels and positions I did become envious. How to dialogue with and still acknowledge the position of power you come from and the position of not power so many of us here have experienced? I am glad you finally saw the light. There is part of me that wants to say,” What took you so long?” but you know we all have our learning curves and you are here.
    People have medications because they have been told by advertisements and friends, and professionals that every problem has a medication to go with it. So many folks are unaware of the history of psychotherapy and really good Social Work ( it did happen- not well all the time for sure -not much- but it did happen) The phrase “Better Living Through Chemicals” has been tattooed on many of our foreheads. This is not a choice this is being pushed into the quicksand.Brainwashing on all levels.
    Beside writing another book- What are your plans? I have always advocated a Truth and Reconciliation type of response to this problem but as many as noted this usually comes after the winning.
    I worked in and then fell into – was pushed into the system. With the ongoing flashbacks of past hospitalizations that I have found no way to totally divest myself of – the violation memories – my sense of self esteem, my ability to believe myself and my perceptions, my sense of safety, my sense of pride, my sense of well being has all been violated and damaged -greatly damaged by the psychiatric system of management and hospitalization practices that are more similar to Bedlam Hospital in England than not.
    It is great to have your voice painful that it is for me but I m more than willing to have you here! Welcome.

  • Thanks for this. As a parent and medical consumer I tried to avoid the ER as much as possible.
    I found repeat visits to docs sometimes were because of poor medical thinking and poor interventions.
    How can we have medical quality when there seems to be a continuous flow of problematic issues in the system itself?

  • Thanks Stephan I definitely feel that is a part of the problem. When I did field placement in graduate school I worked in a public school district where desegregation had. taken place. The problems was the students were bussed from the urban areas then to the suburban areas and visa versa. The faculty and staff remained behind. That effectively cut off the relationships the school faculty and staff had with the community and students.
    A Black principal could no longer pull out an irascible boy in the hallway and give him a lecture stating that she knew his grandparents and had taught his father. Her eyes and the community’s eyes would be on him. No more. I am not sure if this was a planned or unplanned consequence of this school district’s desegregation plan.
    I also miss the concept of front porches. So much has been lost in terms of the history and threads of community.

  • I would say as person who worked as a MSW on a urban city hospital’s general medical floor decades ago and as a parent with many children with many medical special needs, as a caregiver and support of friend, sister, husband, mother with Stage 3 to 4 Cancers, and as a person who was in the underbelly of psychiatry – the downward drift of all medicine has taken place at all levels. I would also include and consider other professions as well. As with teachers, government officials, police officers, therapists, there are still people who somehow survive the barriers and burnout factors to deliver. quality care. However in different ways and on different levels there are both small frustrating gaps and large overwhelming gaps. Some are systemic like the racism that is intertwined almost invisible in the systems, and then there is ennui enforced by paperwork and profiteering. All hail the bottom line of profit and greed to the one percent. Even medical professionals have become cogwheels and we all are less because of this.
    If you look at the complaints and problems of side effects for psycho trophic drugs which you have so often written about the — obesity, the Stage II diabetes, they are the exact same problems that have been growing in the general population and worse of all – in our children!. Our community has just been the canaries in the coal mine.
    Something has been lost in our communities, in our nation , and in our world. I can’t put my finger on it, but the loss is real and dangerous. Maybe it is the experience that African Americans and other minorities have always felt. I don’t know. Maybe it is my white status and privilege. Or maybe we all have been affected by something negative that still has no name.

  • Thanks Phil for taking the time to refute.
    In 1982, I heard the old sawhorse description of Psychiatry being 100 years behind Cardiology. Exact wording!
    Back then the docs were bewildered and frustrated because the so called existing bio markers were not appearing in any sound scientific way.
    My guess is with all the chemicals being thrown at and on folks like ECT there is a pathway of false positives.
    I did see one person really improve with ECT. One.
    And I have had family members improve on medication after trying to stay away.
    My own experience with medication and treatment has been less than positive down to horrorific.
    Placebo effect and other things were are not even yet aware of play a role.
    Research has been so badly designed and executed along with the co opting of BigPharma that it’s seems like a huge can of worms for all of medicine
    The other factor is the co-opting of patients” group by Big Pharma and other monied groups.
    One almost has to read every detail on the group’s website including board of director or advisors to be able to get a good peek st the true nature of the group and even then it can be hard.
    Medicine lost the do no harm ethic a long time ago.

  • I like your joke!
    Yes we need many other exposures and my reference was not real but at least they had a shaman character and good writing
    My problem was that I was aware but had so many issues to deal with and my brain being altered that I could not use my knowledge base or even really access and so much of my base was just within me or I was too embattled to reach out to those who could have understood or helped out
    Even those who were somewhat aware really could only focus on medication
    The psychiatrists that I interacted with as a patient I found to be worthless
    So May in the field have either left or become one with the system

    Your article will allow so many new dialogues!

  • Thanks for this! I enjoyed hearing about suffering ADA part of life and learning tool. So much and so many things covered.
    It is so frustrating not to have a “Nothern Exposure” life where folks are unable to have both medical viewpoints available to them.
    I loved the scenes with the shaman on that show and would have loved to had access to that option early on
    It wasn’t that I wasn’t aware it was and is the walls of inaccessibility.
    So much dialogue possibilities if we all had open ears.
    Reading time!

  • Thank you for this post. I think TBI needs to be highlighted as a hidden issue in the MIA world and in the Mental Health world. It would be great if someone from the NFL post concussion community would post blog.
    There are connections but the powers that be have done such a solid job of keeping everyone separate that it is so hard to make good and thus fruitful connections.

  • Thanks for this work
    During the beginning of the Plague years in Europe the doctors used a phrase usually in Latin that said “patient gets worse with treatment”
    It took many years to discover the cause was due to rats but by that time many many folks had died.
    It might be a good time to read “The Pied Piper of Hamlin”
    Food for thought.

  • Hi
    I am putting my ten cents worth here.
    I was appalled at your like of knowledge of the history of psychotherapy and treatment.
    Please read writings of Dr Loren
    Mosher and read about Soteria
    Therapy has been done for decades and with some success especially in the priveleged status folks
    Trauma informed Therapy began with Dr Henry Kempe and the medical acknowledge ment of child abuse though we in America had Animal rights long before child rights
    Herman and now others have delineated the impact of trauma and we in the world have huge huge amounts of it that the powers that be would like to just cover up
    Trauma affects generations
    Read info on secondary trauma of adult children of Vietnam vets
    This is both PSTD and medical issues like Agent Orange.
    Also read Joanne Greenberg

    INever Promised You a Rose Garden” a fictionalized account and pen named account of recovering from psychosis.
    Read psych survivor stories
    Beers and all the names my mind won’t come up with.
    Joanne Greenberg even has a wonderful book on a deaf couple and their traumas
    Did you know folk have different dialects and languages in sign and some would get locked up because of bad translation?
    Selma Fraiberg’s
    ‘Ghost in the Nursery’
    seminal article on Therapy for traumatized moms.
    Yes Therapy way back way back with No Meds!
    Read Fritz Reidel
    “When we Deal with
    Children” a book about residential treatment with you guessed it No Meds
    There is a lovely book written on homelessness by D C’s Community for Creative Nonviolence with a lovely introduction by either both or one of the Berrigan brothers.
    Read Nelly Bly’s account if her inpatient stay.
    You mentioned anxiety and issues with meds and you are here on this site –
    Do some hard research and come back and let us know your thoughts!

  • Thank you Jarrett for being braver than I at this point on multiple levels. Kudos!
    To you and Matt regarding DSM conniving.
    According to. DSM workshop I went to back in the day it wasn’t in boardrooms but basement rec rooms and kitchens. Though boardrooms were there always as invisible guests. The doc leading the workshop called what it was and is hanky pi
    This was known but somehow scrubbed out of general medical knowledge.

  • Thanks Bonnie for brining kindness
    I am still all over the place with a sitting spot but we do need a coalition.
    Once concern I have heard is what to do with traumatized folks if there is no other structure- a good point
    We are forced to build up and tear down at the same time which is not the best strategy
    But getting folks together is so important and maybe having folks be members of a lot of groups whether it is the best fit or not
    Getting other patients from other areas is important
    Fear is something that needs to be discussed and supports in some way put in shape
    This is not 40 years ago.
    The barriers around and in the Capitol are there and the guarding is there.
    40 years ago one could easily catch a hearing or visit a senator
    Protest gatherings can equal harm to some folks unless it has a veneer of societal acceptence right or wrong as that maybe.
    Even Saul Alinsky would only take on projects that had a 75 percent chance of winning
    Based on that we need to work with other voices
    work on implementing new supports and aids for folks in trouble and then do the end work
    Talking to ourselves despite getting support is too loop like.
    I am glad Bonnie had folks come out to listen to her talk and that should be one method we all should do
    Also take time to talk back about Carrie Fischer’s death.
    All media sources need to hear our viewpoint
    Join Talk Up and Allow others their view if it helps move things on
    We don’t have the luxury of infighting within our life experience
    Let’s just do what we all can
    And hopefully we can coalesce

  • This is important for all of us regardless on where we land on the continuum of MIA.
    It is important because we badly need more peers and cohorts.
    Medicine in and of itself like many societal institutions is self destructing.
    Rates for stressed out docs and the resultant issues are rising and most importantly even folks with cancer are beginning to question Big Pharma.
    There is across the board dysfunction and corruption.
    We have been the canaries and the coal mine is in big trouble
    Please don’t dismiss Stuart’s piece.
    For whom the bell tolls! – John Donne.
    Colalitions make much sense now more than ever.
    Rising voices of all kinds!
    And yes it won’t be plumb level or square- Alan Dugan
    But it will have the great possibility to create change
    We all can play pick up sticks after the victory party

  • You are right there are folks who experience emotion lability after a medical issue as a stroke or even pancreatic cancer.
    It was a problem in the past because no one knew what to do since the standard medicines did not work.
    So this is what good can come out of good research.
    I don’t remember my in law relative with ALS being impacted but I was parenting a special needs toddler at the time.
    I think the problem is that greed fuels so much of our medical/industrial/business complex.
    Then there is denial if the negative impact of many medical treatments and medications across the board.
    Medical schools many many times do not teach how to treat problems arriving due to treatment and medicines.
    It is as if they are fearful to admit their humanity.
    A good doc will always be humane and aware of the whole picture of a patient.
    The trouble is so many decide not to pursue medicine and go of to more lucrative careers.
    This is a problem getting worse rather than better.
    Glad your relatives were able to receive comfort.

  • For United States citizens there is a precedent
    In 1967 the Ford Foundation established funding for First Nation folks throughout the nation for legal services and help
    The collusion between Psychiatry and the legal profession is a huge Berlin Wall obstacle
    The prejudice and stigma attorneys cohabit in terms of even talking about some one who is different is bone chilling
    We all are doa when trying to get legal help for legitimate medical malpractice much like First Nation people’s,the sufferergettes, freed slaves caught in the web of slavery
    It all stinks to high heaven
    Let’s hope the more voices that cry out for all disenfranchised will as ( the one remark I liked that President Reagan said) Tear down that wall!

  • I was struck too by the juxtaposition of entertainment and politics colliding with forced treatment for Kayne and then Dr Judith Herman suggesting Trump be given an evaluation
    This timeline we are living in continues to be so bizzare
    I was watching OA on Netflix and thought that had a nice anti NAMI message and then no the guy turned bad
    T S Eliot had a breakdown before moving to England
    He just waited it out but his family did have money
    Theodore Roethke had issues all the time but I never heard anyone bad mouth him
    My fear is that the letter Herman wrote could put more of us in danger because now the Trump folks have to defend against it and any mention of disability
    Kayne may rue the visit
    Also Hitler and his armies were full of drugs
    Sometimes I think that is why our voice is not deliberately heard
    Too many are on the spinning wheel and don’t want to or can’t get off
    Docs smoking kept the tobacco industry in good stress for many years
    See old adds targeting docs
    e e Cummings is a great poet – interesting fellow write The Enormous Room after WWI

  • Stephan that is why for your very comments we need to have a TRAINED legal entity behind our backs like the activists have
    Standing Rock will be the norm I fear in terms of governmental and corporate payback for protesting. The fear is something I struggle with all the time
    One person told me always have a change of clothes but I really don’t want to live in that mindset
    STAT is open to ideas from readers
    I would push them and others to do a Nelly Bly
    Someone out there must have the courage because it won’t end with us it could easily be all encompassing- too easily
    And thanks Oldhead for the compliment
    More Emily Dickinson letter writing that I tried to learn from as a writing technique
    She was an outsider and everyone respected her as she was
    No police or docs!
    But we all should read “Howl”

  • Thanks for this!
    This area of need has been put under the nation’s rug for way too long!
    The abuse that happened in the boarding schools much less the whole history of the First Nation people since the colonization of
    Western Europe
    I think sadly of Michael Dorris who died too soon
    He was a wonderful writer
    Please send this to Sherman Alexi
    he his the only other – not including Standing Rock folk- First Nation person that I am aware of that has some influence in the world as it is
    Also a shut out to the memory of Jim Thorpe
    May MIA and others join with the First Nation people’s and all of the disenfranchised groups in our country to help advocate for help for the hurting in all ways shape and form

  • Yes Oldhead!
    Has Legal Aid been so decimated that they are nonplayers now?
    We almost need to have a major financial angel create and establish a law school chair for Mental Health Advocacy
    Also there used to be MSW/JD degrees that have the potential for help if they haven’t been brain washed
    Maryland used to have an Advoacy NGO that assigned both a JD and MSW to cases for the DD many were for getting out of the institutions
    at Great Oaks there units I as a field placement student was not allow to see and this was with my previous experience with being at a field placement state institute in Ohio and advocating for DDchildren placed directly from the state institute to a nursing home
    Maybe they were afraid I would act if I saw something
    They had had some issues to state an euphemism
    What and how did Dr Sidney Wolfe work on getting movement?
    Again Ithink on the book and entertainment industry there was a flurry of documentaries and movies and books on that theme
    Best Boy was a great documentary and Bill played by Mickey Rooney
    Again we have the brainwashing and the huge monies involved that make it so much more difficult now
    Activists now are using cards and have an established legal group to call when arrested
    at a protest
    We should have cards to hand out and legal help for those being pink slipped
    I guess we need an Anti Advocacy Treatment Center
    To have a location and staff would be so helpful to all here
    As long as there is punkslipping asking individuals to advocate by themselves is a lesson in failure
    All or nothing!

  • Welcome to our world
    I came through the same pathway and am still integrating why I became bamoozled by the med tale and how I live my life
    There is shame embarrassment and guilt that I knew better and still I became a walking side effect of meds
    I too missed out with my clients because I was unaware
    The only way I can see through this is to use your voice loud and clear and to find others to speak out
    Integrating myself has been hard
    Who am I – by what names do I call myself and still be true to all the prisms of my life?
    Step by step I guess
    Good luck you are not alone

  • Matt
    Thank you so much for contacting Dr Gold!
    That is what is needed!
    I would love to have her in a MIA round table FB discussion
    Dr Hickey is a great advocate but it is so clear he hasn’t been on a locked unit
    Akenthesia my foot- sorry Philip
    That is a normal fight response from a person who is or has experienced trauma
    And trauma is a locked unit!
    However thanks for pointing her article out and let’s do a round table live!

  • Thank you Robert
    I truly wish I could have been there
    I was in graduate school in D C during the time between DSMII and III
    It was the time right before Reagan became president and when the concept of Family Therapy was in full bloom
    It was a time when Social Work professionals had a long time history from 1905 that was more instead of less
    Good folks where on the front lines and even management had some heart in the Mental Health field
    Not all by a long shot but there had been the sixties and deinstituluzation and the war and that had allowed an influx of more open folks
    The DSMIII was not taught prior or right before that it was a disease model approach at best it was categories in line with GSW and SOB with medical labeling shorthand
    At worse it would be convent for insurance
    They were not meant to be seen as diseases but somehow they were co-opted as such during and after the Reagan era
    If one remembers that time there was a massive and extremely determental review of SSI/SSD
    I saw people die because of those reviews
    The DSM III also dropped which I now consider as us survivor myself label
    Ambulatory Skizophrenic sorry folks I have to do the TWAIN Huckleberry Finn thing here
    It was for those folks who had different or crazy thoughts but could function fine in society
    By taking this label off the powers that be in the APA effectively threw many of us underneath a semi
    I think one could say that was the watermark of today
    Back then med students interns of all ilks could come to open or were invited to closed reading of old literature- case histories- and academic journals
    Learning was made available and many of the time constraints were not in place
    It was all symptoms not disease processes
    When I was dx as borderline and psychotic that never ever would have been the dx before
    Reagan years medical processes
    The use of categories for biological processes is nothing short of medical malpractice except there are few docs who are still around which would could compare and it would still be not enough to constitute medical practice as defined by law as an incident outside community practice
    This gives me hope that someday the confederacy of dunces can be taken down

  • In order to expand all of our thinking
    Looking into other histories of oppression and exclusion
    I found Vold who quotes
    Foucault in Discipline and Punish
    He -Volf suggests Foucaults idea of binary division
    Mad/Sane. Abnormal/Normal
    and talks about carceral. mechanisms
    I think
    SJustuce Sonia Sontemeyer used this concept in one of her writings
    The work is out there
    I think it behooves every person dealing with otherness to research,read,and then act. And more is better – in this incidence than one.

  • Yes
    Go everywhere where they maybe folks open and or ready
    One of my other life stuff is car accidents and possible TB
    We were hit on Christmas Eve by a drunken driver when the kids were small
    Even now decades after it is hard to pull out the knots and tangles from just that one incident
    Go to all the places where others are at!

  • Note to all!
    For a person with finger issues from drug induced Parkinsonism
    and learning disabilities
    I have many some worse than others
    My posting typos are frustrating to the max
    The edit tool is unworkable for me at times
    This is another ism that gets lost
    I survived and almost successfully adapted to so called normal life with my slew of learning disabilities
    I passed many times and made it through with the help of sometimes a kind and intelligent secretary
    With the change in paperwork and concurrent hugely massive OMG life stressors I was an accident waiting to happen and before I became an almost train wreck U tried hard not to fall of the tracks by doing yoga and meditation even when none of my friends knew what I was talking about or doing
    They had no good 360 view of me
    Many family members too or the ones that got it were either dying or in grief that family folks were dying
    So please excuse the typos
    Some things don’t make what I really wanted to say
    So make those accommodations in your way and a better editing tool someday please!
    The tw prong disability really you know what!

  • Well it is great to see the dialogue even if it is uncomfortable
    So many of you I respect even if I don’t see exactly eye to eye
    Like Stephan G and thanks for standing up and telling your story
    The First Nation Story is so important and many times has been neglected by all the movements
    This forum for me is my contact but I want to add just some more thoughts
    When I had my school social work placement in Alexandria the school was officially desegregated but not unofficial
    It was just a transfer of kids from one school to another with staff and faculty staying in place
    The African American and White communities all lost out especially the Blacks because any subvert strengths the community had built were made roost turvey by this change that was not really a change
    So principals in the segregated times knew families in generational terms
    If you got in trouble you would know your whole family would know
    With the transfer of students this chain of communication was broken
    I think this happened to the disability movement or maybe we should say
    American Ither Movements
    It looked and walked like a duck but no it didn’t really sound like a duck even though the power that be said it did sound like a duck and it was a duck
    Ways to make things were while making cosmetic improvements!
    The de facto tool for segregation then became reading scores
    And the used to be a white school library murals
    I was stunned all white Western European story book characters and then little black sambo in a loin cloth
    This is whatmI think from Matt and others life story
    Until you walk into that type of room and the subvert racism you just don’t no you just can’t really get it
    And the powers that be know that and COUNT on that to divide all of us others in whatever way or shape we are as other
    I worked with two outstanding actually more African American professionals in the system
    As far as I can tell they have all left my locale
    Which says what I am still left to deal with here in the rust belt ble turned red state
    The AAPsychiatristvwas the one who suggested staff try a haldil pull to see what it was like
    We were all too afraid
    How I wish he would have been around when my life was falling apart
    I think he could have helped prevent me from getting into the system but who knows?
    I also had a great supervisor but again he also left the area
    I had tried to but family in the end made it hard to leave
    How easy it is for us to digres into our own stuff
    Have to be more aware
    California and the disability and other change groups
    Here I am thinking not only of the deinstututulization movements but all that the powers that be want us to forget
    When folks are making you angry or uncomfortable remember talk and dialogue is so important and no one is perfect and we all need to have eyes wide open especially now
    They don’t want us to dialogue that don’t want us to remember they don’t want us to make overt and subvert connections
    They want us NOT talking and NOT exchanging notes
    Have to remember the long history of otherness in human history
    It’s not just our times it’s all time and maybe if the worse is here we have a chance to at the very least create a wind tunnel if change that may not be a cure all but create a new pattern of life for ALL of us

  • Thanks so much for this.It has been a long time coming
    Dialogue is so important even if we slip and slide with our words.
    I always fee torn and worried because I ave been partly aware since childhood
    I am thinking now there may have been more of a family story that I was initially given since my family was aware of Paul Robeson and his life- my mother had membership in the NAACP-my grandmother talked of a quadroon student being a student in her Normal School-and my mother was very aware of the whiteness of state institutions for those folks family didn’t want to care for
    So I am wondering about this because it affects me and how I can interact and support without bein dismissive or racist
    I try and sometimes have gotten into trouble – being punkslipped-because I did make an issue
    My hardest part is speaking with folks who are dyed in the wool raciists. I don’t speak up or give up at the
    We can agree to disagree part because it seems a failing cause especially if it is a work or business interaction
    I just don’t give them any more of my business
    So thanks again
    We need to do more and I would love all of your thoughts on the recent SNL scene with Tom Hanks playing in the Family Feud game
    Interacting is so helpful to me in growing as a human being
    Isolation is intellectual confinement

  • It seems those of us who are willing and able have a week to put pressure on the Senate vote
    What we need is an anti NAMI NAMI group that would start up from a grasswork level and rise up using the best Alinsky tactics
    This would mean all groups in the game and I mean all would have to colace around each other even if it means holding one’s nose!
    This is not the time to engage in sibling rivalry
    So let’s make and create an activist umbrella organization
    We won’t win but by doing the act of creation a paper trail and stone path and road map would be created
    If Standing Rock can do it so can we
    Email me at [email protected]

  • Fingers issues again!
    Edit tool doesn’t work for me
    So I am fully aware I am reccomeding reading a white privileged male who had a breakdown in his twenties but was really never treated in the usual wa
    His first wife had tons of issues
    He would have been a NAMI poster child
    But his words sill carry weight for ALL
    Use that wisdom you have to do something
    I am trying but sometimes it is hard to get fear to strike out!
    Hope someone gets the reference!

  • I am assuming you are a person of color
    If you look into your history yes folks stayed far away except for jobs from the systems
    The gate is something you need to work through
    In the end it doesn’t work in the long run
    I have tried hard to use it and then let it go
    Everyone on this site needs to read T S Eliot quartets
    “for us there is only the trying – the rest is none of our business”
    And I say this full well knowing he has been called an anti-Semite and other suff

  • Sorry finger issues again
    I was driven to the er by a clueless person who didn’t know what else to do
    Family members need to be educated as much as docs!
    I am reminded of the first ‘Planet if the Apes’ movie where the main character sees reality for the first time with the buried Statue of Liberty
    As a former LISW I feel like those words he shouted could have come from my own vocal chords
    I knew and had some great respect for some of the docs I worked with
    I was too ashamed to call on them when I first ran into issues
    The ones that treated me for the most part did more harm than good
    I was a therapists therapist What happens when the pillars are thrown into the horrirific system we have now?
    We fall into the cracks like all of the others
    Wat does that say Sandra?
    Please take Matts words to heart and do read the late
    Fritz Reidals work on treatment of children and adolescenence
    He got it mostly right
    On Wikipedia his notation has only been in German
    Says everything
    But fare forward!

  • Thanks Matt for your cogent reply and thanks Sandra for all your efforts at trying.
    Having had feet on both sides of the deck I feel pulled multiple ways
    I have experienced altered states due to overwhelming stress and was not helped but harmed
    I fully believe my PSTD symptoms came from ‘help’
    especially from inpatient so called treatment should be called for what it was and is warehousing to use and old but still important sawhorse
    So much of that in some many areas of our society these days and U fear more to come before it is really turned around
    The other issue is MAMI and family members
    I was driven to the er by my husband sev

  • Matt and Paris
    Thank you both for this.
    On the topic of vocabulary
    Sometimes one needs to use words for their ability to convey a certain understanding regardless of its political references
    I understand both viewpoints but if a word gives some folks more clarity than I would say use it but make sure somewhere is the acknowledgment of its political difficulty
    It would be nice to convene a congress for a new vocabulary for all of us!

  • One more thought.
    Has anyone including those in the field of disability studies done a careful study of when and where mental illness became a entertainment horror cum sideshow/freak show commodity?
    This seems to be part and parcel along with so many other issues.
    Splendor in the Grass versus Halloween
    A Child is Waiting versus
    Fringe or X Files
    Very white but still lethal
    Ivan remember watching The zElephant Man the movie was was horrified David Lynch I think took the horror film shooting and delay of his being seen on camera as anon protested explicit directorial tactic
    I had no issues with the play
    or many plays that delved deep into madness like Equas or even Man of La Mancha or de Sade
    there was some sort of honor that surrounded the story even if it contained horrors
    Just a thought
    And BTW who is funding this type of art?

  • Joann
    I am sorry for your pain.I am sorry for all of our pain.
    By coming here you entered into a doorway.
    It is discumbulating at first but like a 12 step program if you read 90 stories you will find one that hits home for you.
    I think many here would not deny that folks have altered states but in what to do and how to treat them.
    Many folks are caught in side effect or withdrawal hell
    Many are caught in past or present trauma hell
    There still is no good information that solidly explains why one persons altered state is benign while another persons isdangerous to themselves or others
    We all are learning so Ihope you can stay and take a few breaths and read those 90 stories.

  • No surprise here!
    Anyone who has been treated in the last two decades at most any psych unit and those who were treated in the many many poorly run state institutions will be able as some of the commenters already have -multiple examples of why one would like not to be after hospital treatment.
    My favorite is the psych unit nurse who called me a psycho bipolar bitch
    A label that I will hold forever in my memory.
    If I had a legal expert to use I certainly would try to sue for the breaking of the HIPPA act and the
    some of the doctors I encountered in that hospital on malpractice issues.
    Some docs have no idea of the difference between acting out and psychosis.
    Others come from a different culture and have not taken the time to inform themselves of the nuances of American culture to the great detriment of many of their patients.
    Maybe if any adder mentions Woody Guthrie you might want to ask or even google his name especially now that a Woody Guthrie fan is a Nobel Laurette.
    I haven’t read the interview not prepared for any triggers now but I will
    Sometimes I find it amazing what connections remain invisible or are actively ignored in our world.

  • Just thinking I used strong language
    It is the afteraffects of the beginning part of my most recent treatment experience
    It was bad
    I am trying to acknowledge the trauma but still hold on to allowing for restorative justice and not fall into letting anger lead all the time
    It doesn’t seem worth it in the long run but boy when those memories rise up yikes!

  • Hi Nomaidic
    I know you were talking to Steve but here is my 2cents worth
    I think one aspect of seeing recovery useful in whatever way you define useful does not always negates political and legal action of all types
    I just heard about how compassion works better when fueled by hope rather than anger and or guilt
    I think that view has value
    For those of us who have been hurt sometimes multiple times by the helping system it ain’t easy but I think works better in the long run
    Try everything and especially try to do what works best for you
    Getting lawyers involved or legal advocates would help though at times I not sure about them in general
    Just as long as they have heart and game like Jim

  • I just remembered a name that is not mentioned much anymore but it would be interesting to hear his viewpoint of this type of treatment
    Dr Robert Jay Liftin did a study of how doctors in the Nazi regime were able to use certain mental gymnastics to allow themselves to participate in the Holocaust
    The Nazi Doctors is the title
    My best guess is that this is what has happened to the main developers of recent contemporary psychiatry like Dr Robert Spitzer and others of his ilk

    They are deaf and blind to the atrocities being commited in the name of mental health treatment in medical buildings,out patient centers,and prisons and nursing homes
    It would be interesting to read his work and see if there are parallels

  • What is needed for many especially those undergoing or having had trauma in their lives
    And I am thinking here if all life issues macro and micro is a therapeutic tool box
    They would need a mentor versus a professional
    Not saying no professional help just a relationship which would help design the box out of that individuals needs
    Could be either or or both
    Muscle memory is needed to be able to use the tools
    12 step folks have the steps and sponsorspsychdynamuc folks have the concept of transference
    Musicly incluned folks have their music memory and recall
    Visualfolks can use art therapy as transference
    The old mom saying of “whatever works” is true
    A refuge or place of safety and peace helps tremendously in woeking trauma
    The medical hospital is not the best place if it ever was and that is nightly debatable for even “good programs”
    Right now most folks have to have a creative and resourceful in terms of pockets and mindset to self design and discover how to put together and then actually use the tools
    Truama houses of hospitality would work well
    Hourly meditation groups 24/7 with lifelines to a rainbow of resources and payment options
    If only we all could make them so!
    Then medication wth a designed program of tapering would be used at the end of the continuum instead of for every one in the continuum hook line and yes sinker

  • Cat
    I am sorry you had such a difficult time
    I always tried to avoid ER ‘s at all costs but my husband used them for me and last time I seemed to have nowhere else to go
    There are places like retreat centers that are low cost to visit but they are really not prepared for any crisis and you would have to be able to discern you are in need of r and r and that takes discernment
    From now on I know a certain month is filled with old and new triggers and I will be sure to do slot of self care next year
    Also we need short term trauma centers as a proactive approach even hospitals that have designated psych er rooms are a journey through hell
    Very few people want to use services this way
    The medical world is st fault for not being proactive in accurately and compassionately planning to care for people in need
    In the earlier times the Catholic Church was a refugee and sanctuary
    No longer!A stay in a Catholic hospital is just as bad as a public hospital or private one.
    Without true Trauma informed care it is just like prisiob

  • This article is putting an academic sheen to old old truths
    Gomers and Gomeres
    Get Out of My Emergency Room
    with feminine take
    There were other words I will not mention and this was in a non psychiatric population!
    Read “House of [email protected]
    by I think Shem Fine
    a pen name for a man who became a shrink
    A parody but one parody that should have taught the MBA’s just out of scchool a wealth of knowledge and burden of sorrow
    St. Elsewhere was somewhat the same but the shrink and patients were not offending or protrayed as horror show characters
    It could have been much worse
    The truth on how ” the other” is treated needs to be explored
    So much for the Year of Mercy by the Pope
    We all need to reconfigure how we see and deal with difference especially unpleasant or uncomfortable difference
    We need to learn how to work with our own prejudice and fear and anger
    Not all of these folks are betrayed Angels
    Some are not at all easy and some of us here need to remember times when we were not our best selves actually everybody does!

  • “Howl” references Rockland State Hospital because a friend was admitted there and imprisioned
    He also references the deaths of other friends an elegy not only for family but for a whole class of creative folks
    Stanley Kunitz does this as well in his poem”The Layers”
    Eliot had a nervous breakdown prior to leaving America and St Loius
    He was not hospitalized and just lived through it
    Big differences in socioeconomic status and culture here
    “Howl” describes what happens to immigrant and others in the rank and file who step out of line
    “Wasteland” is an waspish reaction to the utter folly and destruction of WWI
    which is “celebrating” its 100 anniversary
    Many many poets and writers were killed or damaged
    Tolkien ‘s stories of Ircs and Mordor come straight out of his war in the trenches experience
    In the other hand de Chardin’s theology came from the trenches as well but looked what the church did to him
    Eliot as Ginsberg was multimodal
    He brought ragtime music and other references into the world of the poem
    It was not just writing it was all the arts including chess
    His words as they are alone are music in and of itself
    Back in the past poets were considered essential for a king
    They were school for many years and they actual experienced planned altered states
    They also were chosen art on and mainly had some sort of disability or disfigurement
    We have lost many of our creative artists as in David Foster Wallace
    They jumped on the MH ship and I think it forced them to at least for many to walk the plank and jump
    We are not getting writing like this or if it is there it’s not above societal water
    Marilyn Nelson a great African American poet has a sonnet cycle on Emmet Till
    All of us creatives are walking around with masks on our mouths
    Our society is not conducive to
    thinking creatively and being awarded for it

  • Thanks for this and do listen to the above comments regarding wording
    No big deal I think it was brave of you and we need dialogue!!
    How to create and maintain change
    I always keep my eyes and ears open
    These are things that have come up recently
    Women Suffergettes – Your country had a long and drawn out fight for female voting rights and all
    It is well documented and bares detailed exploring on how they finally won
    One venue was the use of
    Spiritualism- it gave them power to voice he unvoicable
    Similar to Fiddler on the Roof scene of Teve’s wife nightmare and voice of her cursing dead grandmother
    It got the job done!
    Another better operation is in the prison system where there have been ongoing strikes
    We need to partner up with these folks
    Divide and conquer is still a ongoing tool for the powers that be
    They have a vested profit interest in ongoing chronic illness and ongoing incarceration
    How did the resistance in WWII function best?
    Those were bad times and not only was your life at risk but many generals had no worries about killing your innocent family members i.e. See “The White Rose Society”
    If there was a way to coordinate inpatient and or out patient strikes by both and or staff and patients
    Medical schools need to get onboard
    I think those who use VA systems can be useful
    More and more vets are coming together to do their own healing
    See NOR today Here and Now
    12 step folks can be useful whether you believe in that approach or not for yourself
    Open AA meetings with folks who have been in the system in the past can be a guiding light
    We need to create a rope for all of us to climb up the mountain
    And I am thinking MLKJr here
    that way we each have our parts but there maybe several paths and tour guides to use to get to the top

  • Thanks again for all of your hard work
    One might want to delve into more history after this
    The Yellow Wallpaper is a short story by Charolotte
    Perkins Gilman fictionilized fact based story on female hysteria
    This was once again a form of trauma that was medical used and the treatment a form of abuse in and of itself
    This was in the end of the Victorian era when women were beginning to – heaven forbid – be uppity
    This parallels the female suffergent movement and it made a good living for docs
    Another era is the Soviet dissatent years of imprisionment and forced medication
    Whenever there is fear of truth in reality the modern world seems to use and find the Denzions of the devil to help surpress it
    and for some psychiatry has been all to willing to land a hand
    Female hysteria is no longer an issue
    One would hope that in the future this will be true of the DSM and many if not all of its catagories
    More work for research for you and others

  • The problem is that if you allow the eye doc to know your meds
    Then you are stigmitized
    and your complaints are utterly disallowed
    So much for help – if and this is a big the eye docs would really be informed of visual side effects of neuroleptic a
    Knowing some eye docs and some who went into the field specifically because they did not like sick people – my guess is that ignorance around this issue is huge
    One needs to read Merton in his much regettable last years and his defamation against those who are unable to honor the other in the world
    Stunningly prophetic to this very minute

  • Fiachra
    Thanks for bringing up the vision issue
    This gets lost in the discussion so many times
    and not the issue you remember to complain about
    There are so many when taking these drugs or whatever you want to call them
    Lamitical caused nighttime driving hell for me and at times Ibeould be in tears since I was driving kids all over
    Not one doc or therapist ever discussed driving and or visual issues with me or my husband
    This was tantamount to severe medical malpractice because
    I was driving not only my children but others
    I tried to avoid but had such a hard time formatting and putting the problem out since there is almost complete sulence in this matter for various complex reasons
    Lack of color vision yes in a trip I was unable to really see things being pointed out by guides
    Another no brainier but then I had no idea this could or would be an issue
    Talk about lack of informed consent and my guess the only folks that knew where big pharma!!

  • This is a good dialogue including discussion of the Murphy Bills and use of the Forum section
    My thinking since in my locality there is legal action regarding the role of police in taking a woman to a supposed state of the art Psych Er actually another version of a small acute locked ward unit -designed to ensure it drives you crazy
    along with the foreign male docs with their total inability to shed their birth cultures virulent sexism toward females
    I would think this amusement should be seen as objectification of torture and human kinds inhumanity to humankind
    Think on this and submit ute Bergen Belsen
    Substitute Armenia in the massacre years of the early last century
    Substitute the convent inRowanda where bodies
    were hacked and children’s blood flowed
    Subsitite a night with Harriet Tubman bloodhounds barking and barefooted shaved hiding in terror
    If a re enactment done for educational empathic experience but is related to Halloween horror I think it is not entertainment meant but more like people in the dark ages coming to see a hanging and drawn and quatertering to boot
    Until everyone is able to see how the disabled are treated in our so called great society
    the UN Charter on Human Rights will never be at the forefront of our society
    And if Trump wins with his personal views on disability front and center on video
    I worry about the future for all
    Many folks are making exit plans
    Will this be possible for us?

  • Thanks Susan for sharing this. I had heard of the issue but wasn’t sure what to do. Makes putting a name out important and also glad to see lots of folks actually worked together and put aside their own interfering issues. I have always been disturbed by some of the entertainment and media businesses highlighting of the horror of any disability or strangeness. Do a blind Kear Lear, or a quad Othello, or any good quality rich an deep creative storyline. But just stop doing the horror themed – these people are scary- outlets! Also no more making meds as a perfect all encompassing solution ie Brilliant Mind

  • Thanks for your thoughts!
    I have been thinking of an amnesty program along with a program sponsored by governments – I know – issues but if all psych docs were required by the FDa/CDC AMA to alert ther patients and former patients that there are legitimate concerns regarding the medications prescribed to them and if suffering from a set of prefectures symptoms from a committee of consumers and researchers and doc – they could be allowed Medicare and free supplemental insurance
    CEOs of zBig Pharma would forfeit any ongoing bonuses to a listed charity or survivor based program
    By signing up for amnesty that would be admitting guilt
    but free from litigation
    Side effects could be treated
    Not a perfect plan but something to think about
    The need for witnessing of the human rights violations that go on in inpatient settings must be a priority
    Unfortunately – it’s so bad because cell phones are not allowed or family or friend 24 hour visitation much less gifts of food or flowers
    This aspect needs to be seen by all players
    Until the abuses are brought to light even the most open to all connecting work cannot be accomplished
    Can anyone get a lawyer to go into a unit?


    [click the ostriches to see and or sign the petition]

    The full text of our petition is long and detailed. This snippet has its essence:
    “A Specific Proposal
    We now petition Congress to require the FDA and NIH to coordinate their monitoring and sharing of key information through Working together, the two agencies could enable stakeholders to verify whether purported scientific claims are faithful to the a priori protocols and plans of analysis originally registered with the FDA. Publication of analyses for which such fidelity cannot be verified shall be prohibited unless the deviations are positively identified (as in openly declared unplanned, secondary analyses). This prohibition shall include scientific claims for on-label or off-label uses made in medical journals, archival conference abstracts, continuing education materials, brochures distributed by sales representatives, direct-to-consumer advertising, and press releases issued by companies or their academic partners. It shall extend to FDA Phase 2, Phase 3, and Phase 4 clinical trials. By acting on this petition, Congress will create a mechanism for stakeholders independently to verify whether inferences about clinical use suggested by the unregulated corporate statistical analyses can be trusted.”

  • Thank you Michael for your thoughts.I get the shame part but as a parent Guilt does come in handy though I also understand Alice Miller’s perspective that Nomadic brought up.
    By confrontation with shame came mostly from my experience with psych hospitalizations.
    I had issues before but I learned to hate myself
    The staff and docs were dismissive at best and rejecting and abusive at worst
    There was no care in all definitions of that word
    The old concept of TLC was gone wiped away forced out by heartless beau rescues and biological psychiatry.

  • Dear Corrine
    I just realized I fell into racism
    I apologize for not acknowledging you by name and also not acknowledging Archbishop Desmond Tutu
    I did it for Frank McCourt and I did it for James Taylor
    This is racism !
    At least I am beginning to become aware
    This is what restorative justice is all about
    Seeing then know legging injustice and walking through the injustice
    Does this make sense to you
    I try!

  • Cat
    I truly appreciate all of your comments
    I fell and understand your righteous rage and have felt that way myself many maintain times
    I am coming to a new conclusion with studying trauma then restorative justice and truth and reconciliation along with MLK concept of the Beloved Community
    It comes from my experience in and around the disability community
    my social justice reading and work
    and the hell I have lived in the system
    One of the things the disability movement used was deescalting and acknowledging the status of other
    in our society
    Yes and improv work with those afeared
    Easy for those in the physical and DD groups you would say but
    I remember the pure venom that came out at city hall meetings for children’s group homes to be allowed in the neighborhood
    I was taught to acknowledge the disability to put the other
    into a less fear based zone
    Not fair but workable and it paid off at times
    Look at James Taylor and other arist renderings of suffering and trauma
    Can’t do good work holding on to huge hate
    Think on playing cops and robbers as kids
    Did the robbers always stay bad. after the came was finished
    We’re resentments held on to?
    Not likely it. was a piece of time
    That negative role was not the 360 version of themselves even if they acted out while they were role playing
    I think even if the timing is bad we need to. go to the building bridges way even if it doesnt fit well
    Someone has to shake hands with the devil or nothing will ever happen
    And that means shaking hands with those we or each person has labeled Devils in our own whatever you call it community
    Tutu had it right
    Storytelling listening and the beginning of responsibility and then maybe just maybe a step toward forgiveness for others and in my case as I suspect in yours the letting go of self loathing we got from our time in the system
    Let the dialogue begin

  • TRM and al
    lWhen I was working on the “other” side before I dwelled in the land of shrinks, we had an aware and on target psych doc who challenged us to try a antipsychotic – not one of us did – And I still took the cool aid when I was dealing with multiple issues. It was also forced on me in ways that things are forced despite my knowledge and this background. They – the docs -now or in the past who were accidents waiting to happen could not care less who you are as a person or human being.It was known in our community mental health center the drugs were not great. There also was the issue of stopping. It was apparent the docs had no idea what to do and were aware of withdrawal issues though it was – looking back- ignorance more than anything else.They had no idea what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The huge problem is there are some – and others would say many psych docs who are trouble with a capital T for us. They have no empathy, no listening skills, no heart, and I would venture to say are of little mind and shallow humanistic depth. They should be outed from medicine. Put and keep them in a lab – sorry for the ethical researchers out there but life behind a microscope or imaging machine would be much better for all. The worst part is because of their personality traits they would have a very hard time with a Reconciliation and truth process. They could not handle the anxiety, the stress, and I wonder if they can actually feel guilt. That or they are so messed up emotionally they have suppressed the ability to see themselves as capable of error.

    I think that is way we have a fault line or lines in our movement. Some of us are extremely and justifiable angry. Others of us have been through sheer luck or grace been able to let go of some of the anger though not of the intense and painful memories.We need to be able to identify docs that are able to listen and acknowledge our trauma. I would guess a few may still be out there. More old then young but maybe I am too cynical.
    I would identify , find, and talk to the ones that are at least willing to listen then tone down some of the justifiable anger and work on getting a dialogue going. What I hope would happen is that the docs could have new eyes and then do something about their impaired colleagues and I mean impaired with all my heart and soul. They never should have been given a white coat.
    And fyi some docs do take meds but generally it is a guilty secret and I would guess some take out on their patients. Other times they become a laughing stock of the department and there is no grace in that and I think wounds them more than we can ever know.
    How to open the gate is still problematic and at times I feel huge. We need both justice and mercy on both sides. I think it may happen some day. I sure hope so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I understand the no go folks and disregard my comment if it doesn’t work for you. I will understand.

  • Thanks
    Great idea
    I have had the same thoughts and ideas
    Go for it
    I also would like your thoughts on how us folks coming from a priveleged status can attain the best skills to work with others
    I have found that being in the system is a great equalizer in terms of entering the world of marginalization
    I understand more than I did as a professional but still want to be sure to create
    a good relationship with others of my peers
    I tried to propose a center and it fell on on the deadwood and I found it hard not to be in community
    Still do
    It would be good to have that support

  • AlexVery true however
    to me I seem isolated from peers because of no formal structure to intiate contacts or facing my own history is still an issue for me that I get scared and lose that possibility
    Having your local police know your history is also extremely problematic
    and there are obstacles to leaving
    Self acceptance and self live that was obtained and then devastating lost through contact with the mj system makes one fearful and unable to trust your judgement and most importantly act
    How to do this and organize at the same time is almost a double bind situation which is what the powers that be have implemented do well
    Divide and conquer people’s soul so that there are literally not able to resist

  • Does anyone come up with an empty page on Wikipedia for e fuller Torrey’s page?
    Stanley Medical Research PpCenter is cited but is a
    none page
    So who is funding him?
    What are his links to Ariel Castro Hospital?
    Why did he develop so much power?
    Why did he change his tone after the early eighties?
    How many lives has he ruined by his work?
    Is his medical work more akin to Dr Mengle then Dr
    Albert Switzer? sp?
    So happy to know he has a wonderful pathology lab and specimins
    The lab of Dr Mengle had some great twin and twin children path samples as well
    But of course no one wants other folks path samples except for Henrietta
    Lacs so?
    And her story in and of itself is reason enough for aBLM movement

  • Thanks Sera
    I would be too afraid to protest due to the pink slip issue but good for all of you
    I am wondering if there are violations of the HIPPA law with all of this?
    Also trauma
    I just read suicide is the highest cause of police deaths
    Not sure the reference but I think it would behoove the spotlight team to look into that whole issue
    My guess is police are basically peers but it is the elephant in the living room
    Would also work with police and ploiticians
    Scary for many in power to admit
    I see both police as good folks with some really bad apples and slot traumatized by a job that makes them on a daily basis overreach initially on multiple levels
    How many job openings are there as compared to Wall Street?
    Big did
    I would guess
    Also folks want to forget Sen Thomas Egleton? So
    His story needs checking into
    Madame Secretary the tv show brought up P ST D fine to have it if you are rich
    Get incarcerated if you one of the msrginaluzed or worse and definYelt no mercy and lots of priveleged judgement
    Also I would check out current surgeon general
    Where his his voice
    No Evert Kiop he
    He does clinical trials had a mba and wants to festivities mental illness
    The phrase that tells all
    One more thing check out St Elsewhere the tv show
    had some very good stuff on med taking and option to choose
    Maybe if you force spotlight to look hard enough long enough their retaining walls just might break with the force of waves

  • To you and others
    The mental health system until very recently was populated by white folks
    Jim Crow had the lynchings and killings
    I think the powers that be
    have used the systems of mental health and incarceration with meds in lieu of the hanging tree
    My sense was that many black families were truly and many times accurrately aware of the negatives of institutionslism
    My cell is not typing well so excuse the formatting and typos
    Check out news stories of folks in altered mental states killed or threatened by police actions
    There area number of them
    There is an old saw horse abou they took others ect.. then they came for me
    Eventually if nothing is fixed or changed a pink slip could become a possible death warrant or hanging tree for anyone no matter what group you hail from
    I am not an expert just going on what I have heard and seen
    There must be a treasure of info somewhere on this or should be

  • Thanks Will
    What is most important is the open secret that African Americans kept a wide wide distance from the state and local mental health systems
    They worked there but families kept folks close
    It was not until the Civil
    Rights movement that the racial composition of the state and local mental health systems became more diverse and not for the better!
    NAMI targeted their culture and so many were lost in the bowels through hospitalization ard or incarceration that now a black person in an altered mental state risks their own life if they are pink slipped
    Police have no training on how to assess and deescslate a situation and in fact their control leanings can make for a very tragic situation
    This needs to be thoroughly looked into and researched
    by someone
    What happened?

  • Thanks Sera and to the other brave souls
    I am wondering if the s team is suffering from negative undue influence from somewhere
    I am thinking of Fr Andrew Greeley’s life before he died and his brief stint in a psych unit mentioned very briefly in one of his writings
    I am thinking of some of the passages from “Black Like Me” the ones that reference fear
    I would also pay attention to the dialogue in the S movie and the oppposing attorney about undue negative influence he deigned not to discuss
    I would rewarch “Hearts of Atlantis” and watch out for the low men men there and in “Breaking Bad”
    Also those that have fraught the RCC many have had to seek help in various forms healthy and non healthy ways
    Just go figure and follow the money and find where did the other s team go?
    Listen to pleasure and privilege by I don’t know what group on you tube
    Wish I were there
    Yours in you know what

  • Thank God for this! I have fought with relatives, friends, and professionals about this during times when I was under extreme duress. This with a neurologist report that was sent to the psych doc that also confirmed this. For me, any antipsychotic created this issues along with other awful side effects. I still can’t believe I feel down the rabbit hole for so often and for so long. Ongoing trauma with virtually no breaks makes one also at a nonending first stage of trauma and never able to achieve full and lasting recovery because the stress and triggers never , ever end. No safe refuge for me though I have tried and always come up short.
    I have finally stopped recieving verbal stance on my no meds no way policy. It has been hard fought and at times awful. Some folks supposedly in the know have no idea! This is in the same stream as Lamictal not causing any vision side effects. Try living with both!!!!! I was forced too!
    Thanks for this. It made not only my day but my life!
    I still have moments and am working on all nonmedicine ways to solve the stress issue. Time consuming, expensive and in my area No one understands the full complex picture of trauma. I have a very good sense but seem alone in this understanding about the ways of the system. It would be so nice to have a support system.

  • TThanks Sers for your words
    I had great respect for journalism in the past now not so much
    I would love to access their emails and contacts for their article
    Something smells fishy to me
    How was big Pharma involved did they plant these stories and thebTrestment Advocacy Centermwere they in contact with the team
    Also if one of their peers has a blog on
    MentaHealth -wouldn’t that be one of your first go to research places?
    Did the RC church have anything to do with this?
    They did a number on the church and maybe there are ties underground
    Definitely not the way I was taught journalism 101
    Full 360 not just forced perspective
    Sera can you try to get access to their research probably not but it might be something to look into

  • Thanks Val for your efforts. I especially am interested in your time at NAMI. I tiried but they have been so coopted that it is impossible to have them come on board as allies. This will be hard to gather up the troops because we have the fear of being pink slipped. Some folks say bring another pair of clothes with you a tall times but I am not that brave.
    We really need allies like the LBQT communities have. Maybe an AIDS like quits with no names but stories and dates of birth and death and try to bring into Congress!
    You really need a concerted resistance movement and I would look at the tactics of World War II folks. But again beware because the effort produced the lovely but tragic White Rose Society.But Meip Giess survived after helping the Frank family so it can and should be done regardless.
    How to put grass works into action with so many detriments to organizing?
    Posters on telephone polls? In public bathrooms? Something almost silent with three at most.Then showing up when the bill gets heard in massive ways. Again Saul Alinsky comes to mind. He would not take a challenge on unless he felt he had a s trong chance of overcoming the barriers.
    Short wave radio?
    Please let us know when the bill is about to be heard and give us time to think on joining. You shouldn’t have to do this by yourself.Lets get sewing!

  • It ain’t easy dealing with more than one did! You handle it well. Good luck with surgery any more agency that you can achieve is a victory.
    I liked your clip
    I think we all need to look into how Germans not only acknowledged their guilt through actions or nonactions but have now a long sustained reconciliation movement.Not perfect. not big headlines but it exits!
    See today’s nyt holocaust article.
    I would strongly suggest that along with your efforts we follow their example
    A Shoah of our own with a museum a list of names and histories trees planted for those who saw and helped and a stone marker for every death.
    See Dr G’s latest contribution to this site. and his speech
    It is time to say the word holocaust.

  • From the front lines in my state from last week
    Police were called and I was surrounded by police firefighters paramedic s at least nine uniformed males for a 5 ft 155!woman
    I did of play well and ended up restrained and forcibly medicated
    I know have my Td and Parkinson’s back but at least I am out for now
    Is there an underground railroads for u
    I said my Ed off trauma they turned it into paranoid skizophrenia
    I know how to play but felt nothing would work and was doomed so I gave them the worst I could think of using my privileged status not to be killed
    But the names ere there in my minds and the beautiful magnolia tree that has killed so many of our endothermic and sister Blake
    Some of the lowly AIDS were kind
    They knew that I knew honthu hansled it the paskeep away and in your mind say what you want
    No females No cxlincian with ability to dx
    I have lost my ability to write
    Trust has become a melting icicle under my head
    Don’t understsnd

  • Numbers are high everywhere
    Thanks for this. I tried desperately to keep my child off
    Husband was in a post loss of father/post Stage3 cancer fog
    No other options after he was sexually harredsef in school
    Could have sued but was it worth it to him
    Moved out of city. He did not see med as a bad
    Had better times but move was huge loss for him
    No family therapy

    I knew but you can’t work on your own family Murray Bowen not withstanding
    Farms let the kids with energy work on farms or create or do something
    Free the kids from the chains of their desks!

  • Numbers are high everywhere
    Thanks for this. I tried desperately to keep my child off
    Husband was in a post loss of father/post Stage3 cancer fog
    No other options after he was sexually harredsef in school
    Could have sued but was it worth it to him
    Moved out of city. He did not see med as a bad
    Had better times but move was huge loss for him
    No family therapy

    I knew but you can’t work on your own family Murray Bowen not withstanding
    Farms let the kids with energy work on farms or create or do something
    Free the kids from the chains of their desks!

    He do

  • Thanks Noelle
    I proposed centers for folks experiencing stress that would be a place for daily group meditation and connections to alternative arts and exercise . I deliberately used the word stress because that is a more acceptable word for most folks I based it on a agency that uses a similar model for folks with cancer
    Individuals were supportive but not the powers that be
    And there are agencies that say they are trauma informed but not really
    Neurobiology is interesting for me but certainly is not the end all or be all
    It takes time and everyone is different
    If only we could begin to hear stories of survivors who eventually have bee able to thrive
    And yes our country is deep into denial of all trauma that happens on a daily ongoing basis in many people’s lives
    Some much much more than others
    National Catholic Reporter has another article worth reading on trauma
    Interesting and salient. Good for a dialogue because the author brings up hard issue that are difficult but need to be discussed and someday resolved
    My life has been overflowing with trauma up to this very day
    I go back and forth many times without a tether
    There doesn’t seem a good place for me to have refuge from past scary lockedysych unit trauma and seclusion to the trauma of silent triggers I live with almost every day
    Sometimes sinking down to the depths of psych world is almost an option so that I could be zombified for life
    Bring on the Nursing Home placement since death is so hard for people in my world to contemplate for me
    When one feels there is no refuge or sanctuary where all options have been tried with closed doors or locked Windows or fear reigns so that other possible options fail life becomes an open wound and salt is poured by people who try to help but just are totally unable to get it
    The movie Spotlight did it go into thespecifics of how the church or in other whistleblower cases targets the voices of truth
    It needs to be made known
    So even if one calls out the trauma there are a hosts of ramifications similar to those who tried in Germany during WW2
    To break the circle we need to break the power and control tools
    Some tools are breaking but not fast and hard enough
    At least your voice is strong and elequenI am so ready for change

  • Thanks Bruce. How to do this if we fear ourselves being targeted?

    What are your thoughts about this notice I read about my city“The Roster is for any person who either resides in, or attends school in, the city of —–, who is affected with autism or any other related autism spectrum disorder,” Police Chief ——noting that the roster is for residents of any age. “Our goal as a police department is to keep —– residents safe. The creation of this Autism Safety Roster fits within that objective.”
    ‪Any thoughts anyone?

  • Yes and thanks! I see this linked to the other articles and blogs here recently. We need to have an open and ongoing dialogue between everyone involved. A round table of all.
    Recently the National Catholic Reporter started doing articles on abuse and trauma in general not just related to clergy sex abuse. See this week’s article on ACE’s excellent! It gives a wide view that most likely all of us are dealing with trauma issues in one way or another. However the helping professions have been closed down for decades about personal trauma issues and thus have their sometimes horrific negative affects in providing “help” to others.
    Luck plays such a huge role. IF you are born with a silver spoon in your mouth and have experience with altered states, you may have a small apartment but you will not have a the same chance as becoming homeless as others.
    So many professional just don’t want to see and sometimes I think it is because the trauma is in the mirror but they just don’t know how to face it and push past that.
    Dialogue among all with the ability of all to hear each others voices disturbing and so hard and uncomfortable as that may be is the only answer worth looking into and pursuing.
    Legislative work that provides power to psych survivors and trauma victims as key players in a new system is also needed. If Germany can change so can we!

  • There is almost no difference between prisons and most secure locked mental health units today. When I was in them I was shocked at how much the adult psych unit had changed from when I worked there as a professional. Other than a few teaks here and there they are virtually the same. The one difference is there are jobs and libraries available to prisoners.

    Until that environment is changed there will be ongoing and continuing trauma to those hospitalized regardless of the kindness or apparent good well of some professional folk who think they are helping not hurting.

    Our health care systems for those in altered states has DE EVOLVED into the snakepit ( see movie)

    This requires a radical and almost anacharistic change from the docs on down. The change I see is very very slow. Until the voices of the psych survivors who have been in the locked units and in the system are really heard and respected – nothing will change.
    Slow psychiatry is a good beginning gambit but until there is true dialogue between both sides all discussion is null and void.We here are talking to ourselves good though that is.
    There needs to be a commission set for dialogue paid for by the penalties and fees assigned to Big Pharma for their corrupt actions. Then and only then will change begin to happen!

  • Hi, I would strongly suggest that you and other now practicing with families and children do a Oliver Saks research move. He went deep into the past and by doing so came up with some very interesting information that had been missing in his field for decades. Thanks for your work but please look into the writings of Selma Fraiberg MSW, DW Winnicot, Anna Freud, Clark Moustakous sp ? Fritz Redl , Daniel Stern, Ann Schraf Wilson, Maria Montessori original research, and others.
    The environment in which the child lives in, the parents own histories, specific traumatic incidents were all acknowledged in some way shape or form by these folks. Of course they were not perfect but they had the the right sense if nothing else. And for those who dont know Anna Freud worked with the children of World War II — those that had become refugees and those that had been placed outside of their families home for safety.
    Somehow the baby was thrown out with the bath water and medication became a god.I am thankful at the very least that maybe the tide may just begin to be changing.
    READ and RESEARCH! It’s all there! Even if you initially don’t like their thinking there are gems to be found.
    We can have both the best of the old and the new. Really! The whole survivor movement is a goldmine if we can only be heard and learn to dialogue as much as times we would prefer to curse and scream bloody murder.

    If only we can be heard and acknowledged we can bring depths of knowledge and adding with others work maybe a chance for hope that is real and solid for children, families and adults who either have dealt with trauma or think in a different way.

  • Thanks for this. I have something to share not quite on topic but important. Check out this TED ED video on the math behind Van Gogh’s Starry Night. The implications of what happens and what the possibilities are for those who are dealing or have dealt with – my best words I guess are altered states. It is framed for math and physic teachers but the implications for the entire spectrum of psychiatry and occupy psychiatry and all other =groups and fractions is astounding! I couldn’t copy the link. My bad. But please check it out!

  • So this is what I did I wrote a letter. Locality and names have been redacted

    .Once again I am greatly disappointed in the offerings of the board. I would strongly urge to look into the MIA website and Robert Whitaker’s writings along with trauma specialists such as Judith Herman and Dr. Bessel Van der Kerk’s excellent work up in Boston. Another direction I would point you in would be 1boringoldmans website for a bevy of information from a med prescribing shrink about the sad state of affairs in the Mental Health world. The late great Dr. Oliver Sacks would also confirm his findings.

    The lack of any type of peer support or peer presentation is an abject horror and speaks to all that I find disturbing in the professional helping professional world in ****** and ****** in general. Intentional Peer Support staff have given international trainings why can’t they be invited to come to our local?

    In the past there has been a small bow to alternatives with your inclusion of acupuncture. That I think has the least scientific validity and is also prohibitively expensive for most folks who live in urban ************. Or actually most folks anywhere.

    DBT has currently been thrown out of most cutting edge Mental Health work around the country. It is a sham.

    I would have liked to see a vigil held or candle ceremony for _________As John Donne wrote so long ago
    “Ask not for whom the bell tolls = it tolls for thee” ago. It still rings true today.

    As both a former LISW of over twenty years and as a partaker of help I have been extremely disappointed in the continuing decline of quality and resources available to both those on public insurance and those of us with. private insurance.

    I have not found NAMI to be a true voice. It is a voice of concerned family members who have followed without question the medical system trashing of what was at least before the time of the DSM III R a system where at least some of the time despite great flaws good help could be obtained. Not for me – though I am aware that they do try. ______ seems to be strained to the bones without much support.

    I would be afraid to do any organizing of any type at this time due to the heading of the board by a police officer. I have family members who are officers and I like many but as far as I can tell they are not gifted with the history of Social Work and would not know who Selma Fraiburg, D W Winnicot Jay Haley,Jane Addams, Emma Lazarus, Dorthy Day, Dorthea Dix, David Oaks, Claude Beers, Jean Vanier,or Nelly Bly were if they were staring at them in the face

    . Not their fault. Police are here to serve and protect not care and help and organize. It creates a sense of fear which creates then more invisible barriers to dialogue and change.

    I hope to see change some day and when this happening I may feel safe enough to join in. Until that day comes keep me off your list. It’s just too sad.

  • Well there have been various tries with no great overall success. And I agree party and political affiliation still have the walking blind to our issues folks! How to usurp my fear our fears and go with the flow of one good action will began another. Hard in this era! There has to be something face to face not sure how this ever could play out with a nexus of some kind. When if ever I figure it out I will get back and post it.

  • Well if you take the thesis that we are the canaries in the coal mine I am worried. There is no one major political figure that I feel gets why MIA is even in existence. No one speaks of Sen. Thomas Eagleton and I think his story needs to re-examined in the light of the Murphy Bill and our ongoing downward spiral with gun violence and resultant stigma. There are spots and sprouts of hope here and there but I was taught on my mother’s knee to expect the worse and then be pleasantly surprised when it doesn’t happen. Not super healthy thinking! So when I read Trump’s son call those of us “wackos” it makes me went to have a plan of action if the worst happens and then throw the suitcase away when I don’t have to take any action at all.

  • Thanks Rachel. I like Joanna and have been following her for several years now. Unfortunately, there is such a great break between the pscyh survivor movement and other change agents. The initials after your name and I had them once great a divide. I like the idea of your group. I would love to see groups of this type as is at the least alternative thinking. It would be a start. I know some folks would find this problematic not radical enough. But in places like where I live this type of group would be considered way radical. I have been actually fearful of starting something because of the possible ramifications. I think maybe if we could start en masse all over the nation that would help and have a stronghold connection that might create enough energy. Posting on this blog is getting old and I am ready to do something depending on what the election year brings with it. Stasis cant last forever you have either change the system somehow or just move elsewhere. This forum has been great but not enough for me anymore. At least folks read The Great Turning go out of the comfort zones and read and research. Most folks don’t get wh