Sunday, April 30, 2017

Comments by skybluesight

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  • “I think or almost know Gus attacked his father in revenge for turning him over for unwanted psychiatric abuse. It is a betrayal of sorts.”

    Yes, I guess after thinking it over , that part is clear. Now the father had no suspicion of this -he was a complete blank. So that is strange, unless you start thinking… well here it is, what was wrong in the relationship – emotional repression taken as normal. He’s sitting there,at dinner , perhaps uncomfortable that his son is not talking but “no anger” is the normal, nothing wrong there, been taken care of or suffocated a long time ago.So it finally spilled over into violence and the father still doesn’t understand.

    Doesn’t take much emotional repression for a personality to get squashed and splintered. There may have been other things wrong but there was this one thing wrong there somewhat certain..

  • What got me in this video was how the father did not seem to know how to communicate with his son. After being rejected at the hospital, he just returned home , ate dinner in silence (no communication) with his son at the table , let him go to bed in silence and in the morning chores til the attack the same ..
    I think he could have hired a survivor or an expert who could have taught him how to dialogue – perhaps long before the end.

  • I informally interviewed a lot of “consumers” at a MH dropin centre – same story over and over again , just like what you are saying.
    Nothing that ever happened to them or is happening to them matters, you see, because they have a brain disease.
    Many of them with outrageous histories of violent abuse,and another thing – they have constant groups in which they are prohibited from saying anything “negative” and must to tell some kind of lie about how they feel today etc. When I participate in those groups, I find I have to hide who I really am, what I do and what my life is really like, and make up a fake self to present, which is fine with me because I am a spy lol but feeling of having to present this false image of self is horrid and twisted.
    It’s the ultimate betrayal of those who are trusting damaged and confused on meds.

    Canada on national TV has this week has a big Mental Health “awareness” week – lots of doctors telling how to use medications, lots of paragons explaining how they now take their meds everyday and they are just fine and it’s justifiable you see, because the whole population is about to commit suicdie.
    Everyone needs “treatment”.
    Pretty scary.

  • Psychoanalysis is to Psychotherapy as a turtle is to a cheetah.

    I read Jan Wong’s description of her psychoanalysis in “Out of the Blue”, and felt like throwing the book at the wall. What a colossal waste of life! She did the medication route with psychoanalysis for all the good it did her IMO.

  • Yes, I have a parent 90 years old going through that abuse right now. I woudl move them, but there is nowhere to go – they are all the same and despite “it’s not supposed to be”, every phone number for reportage goes into a bureaucratic loop.
    They own it lock stock and barrel – the corporations and Government in lockstep.
    Also they got kickback from one particular pharma company and locked out all other suppliers to the corporate chain – even the pharmacists complain – once they’ve gone to long term corporations all the records they used to have access to, go into a black hole.

  • @Carina Thank you for answering.

    Yes, I once read a book on how to become a millionaire. Chapter One said: First get a lot of money.
    I think respite alone can facilitate a lot of what is called “recovery” which is better than nothing but still not personality restructuring. Providing respite is easy for the rich or for the rich plus enlightened plus loving parents.
    So that is good that you have some outreach. I spent many years in the poverty Ghetto , even after I was cured. I would say all of the hundreds of people I knew with mental illness had no useful outside social resources including parents.

    Recovery it seems can be achieved by the providing mostly external things, or respite, the person mostly probably will do some work on themselves , the inner, because of the stimulus of the breakdown process. Other social support is gravy.

    Recovery is not cure but it is better than a Pharma kick in the head.

    Internal changes are a whole other story. I really can’t assess anything unless I hear the shared narratives of those who might have made those changes or what changes they have made.

    Notwithstanding that in your work you most probably have facilitated something positive.

  • Hello Daniel,

    I used to be schizophrenic. I was cured over thirty years ago. I have no trouble understanding what happened to me.

    The first thing I got here is you still have a problem with anxiety. Or do you? I mean does it really bother you or are you just controlling an autonomous reaction such as “Huh! Where am I? Oh I’m here!”…ie no big deal.

    But I suppose like a zen master expecting combat you can control those autonomous reactions if it happens a lot.

    I traveled extensively for ten years overseas, I woke up in a lot of strange places and often had to take a moment to orient myself but I never felt any social anxiety about it.
    So maybe you still have some kind of generalized problem?
    EDIT:
    OK , reading your further description , you definitely have some kind of unresolved problem there. You use a technique to deal with it, but it’s still there.


    I’m wondering – I always want to ask cogent people who have had or have schizophrenia what their experiences with anger are and have they transformed themselves in any way with this emotion?

    That would be pretty much anyone else who might have transformed themselves like I did.

    Oops ! I have to ask – you are using Pharma’s word “recover” so I have no idea what this means to you. You know Pharma’s definition: no more entertaining symptom – pretty much like before except slightly stunned with meds or without and low resilience, needing lots of support.

    So what does this word “recovery” mean when you are using it?
    —–
    I was thinking in this situation how the capability to enjoy a nice bit of rage might be very important to the idea of walking up confident in a strange environment. If a person didn’t have that behavioral repertoire they might go through life on skittles.
    Of course generating peace and calm is good too but that didn’t seem to be your natural wake up state, and I tend to think no one gets to peaceful confidence without having a full emotional range in the first place.
    —-
    No I don’t like your model -trying to make someone be in “dialogue” with those who happen to be in their social network sounds oppressive and repressive and some kind of attempt at social control.
    ….
    A model of individual emotional dysfunction and emotional restructuring is sufficient to understand psychosis.

    A person’s monologue is their kingdom – nothing wrong with that – yes they need open dialogue with themselves within their monologue – you can say their inner monologue is not working well.

    Thanks

  • The document is great – 861 pages of everything I don’t care about and don’t want to know but probably should know – like an analysis of a big pile of excrement.
    ..
    But don’t get me wrong an excellent job and I guess someone had to do it. Perhaps I’ll keep a copy on a podium or desk somewhere and /or memorize relevant sections when I have to deal with Pharma propagandists or the replicant DNA of such propaganda person to person.
    —>
    But you must, I think deal with patients who are being prescribed medications from elsewhere.
    ..
    Sincerely, I don’t care much about psychiatry, do you have anything on psychotherapy (from yourself or others)? hopefully effective.
    What type of people do you work with in a very general sense diagnostic wise?.

    I don’t now what you are referring to with the “genetic fallacy”, I am just caring about the practical issues in any case.

  • Interesting – cataloging or recording the apocalypse you are.
    Good work.
    I wouldn’t get your hopes up.
    ..
    The black box warning hasn’t stopped the rampant use of psychotropics on the elderly in Alberta Canada where they are literally being murdered in droves.
    ..
    Black Box warning sure – but who knows about it? The long term care places give out no info, neither do the doctors nor the pharmacists nor the Government Health Services nor the media.
    They do as they wish.
    A conspiracy of silence – everyone wants to keep their jobs.
    All the official numbers for complaints are a Franz Kafka Bureaucratic joke.
    Also almost all of the relatives of those elderly are fooled blind.
    A perfect patsy population.
    Don’t get your hopes up.

  • “Instead we must recognize that some are better for certain conditions than others, redouble our efforts to identify these and improve them, and ensure that the most effective therapies are available to all who need them.”

    I smell a rat rather than a Dodo bird.
    Perhaps agenda – perhaps such as using this and the DSM to deny various psychotherapies to people as is happening.

    Certainly there are harmful therapies. Dr. David Allen uses psychotherapy to effect his vision of social control, I’ve as much as told him he should work for a totalitarian state, he’d get a place well earned.. and Pharma’s talk-therapy ie “support you on drugs” is another anti-therapy.

    Redouble? huh?. Instead of just practicing an effective psychotherapy? None of this sounds right, like directing a neurosis.

    Ah so…
    “The University of Copenhagen recently compared the efficacy of two popular psychotherapies: CBT and psychoanalysis.”

    So they are actually trying to find out which one is better for everybody. Well, yes some methods are better than others and both those methods are low in the scale of effectiveness. And it’s up to the therapist to make it work, not make it fail. I’m not surprised psychoanalysis was the least practical- they lie down and “talk” without working on themselves except by chance – it’s nuts – it’s like 1,000 monkeys with typewriters hoping to write a paragraph…

    Just find one that works and throw away the ones that don’t or absorb eclecticly the practices.

    Perhaps the question should be reverse?
    Will one size fit all?.. or nearly all?
    Yes, I think so, I’m pretty sure I experienced it back in the day where diagnosis was rather irrelevant. In that particular environment – group psychotherapy – there was no restriction on intake as as far as I know and diagnosis was limited to “not currently psychotic”.

    But having not seen anything like the psychotherapy I used to take in the ’70’s evidenced anywhere, I am pretty much convinced that psychotherapy is currently murdered and buried by Pharma or passed away or hiding perhaps somewhere where it costs a lot of money to access.
    I should like to be convinced otherwise, then I could start making some referrals.

    Commenter Sigler was right, it was as simple study and more conclusions drawn than it deserved.
    I think what therapists need to do is throw out the junk absorbed from from social control ideology and pick up on where psychotherapy left off thirty years ago before Pharma’s “Talk therapy ” and it’s accompanying reversal of goals became ascendant.
    ..

  • Government doesn’t want “healthy people” they want compliant voters. “Exposure” will not kill this monster, it has already been “exposed” and is still living.
    The media is owned by corporate interests and Pharma interests, they decide what is exposed and what is not. For the public to know truth, the public must own the media.

  • Yes,sharing experience and receiving shared experience is the only real communication and real learning that can be made.
    .
    But as for this, I don’t know what has been accomplished here. Feeling sorry for people is a one way process and I never saw it achieve much.

    I don’t really know what success has been accomplished here, the devil is in the details and I don’t see the denials I need to evaluate. Trying to research the websites I still don’t see the details.
    It seems there is a lot to do with money and being wealthy and having co-operative parents and my reservation with the latter is that could just mean some form of social control has been exerted with the subjects as puppets.
    For myself, I need to see the shared narrative of the subjects I want to see if they are emotionally independent and how that has been achieved, what inner changes that have made and how that has been achieved and if they are now resilient and most importantly fully realized and confident with negative emotions.

    Maybe someday the meeting will happen but not yet.

  • Thanks copy cat .
    However,these are single news stories and may not represent the state of law or the application of it today or USA wide.
    They are interesting though and a good point to start study.

    I tend to think if it was the standard the shrinks woudl be a lot more careful , which they aren’t,

    I love Marion’s story – he left town lol – good for him!

    I want to see if Kristina sues and if not, why not? The community should petition here to sue for the common good. The money is not enough – they should be stripped of their license.

  • “For me, one of the biggest problems we have in psychiatry is unacknowledged COI. Given the sensitive nature of the work we do, the power we can wield over people’s lives, the history of our improper relationships with Pharma – even if it turns out all rules were followed – that is not good enough. We should be above reproach.”

    No, I think the biggest problem you have in psychiatry is that psychiatrists learn absolutely nothing , Zero, zilch about human psychology, the mind , the emotins and how they function.

    Psychiatrists are not vetted through any process of inner development nor are they vetted by any process of ego stripping and emotional confrontation. Part of the final exam should be an eight hour group confrontation process in which their innermost processes are examined and it should not be easy to pass.

    the rules were followed

    This is self-delusional, whose rules? The bought off judges,?the bought off politicians? the bought off mental health workers? the corporations? the power elite? the rules of the shrinks , the self-appointed gods?
    Pschiatria is above reproach only because it is above and beyond the law.

  • It’s not trying to fastrack “review”, It’s trying to fasttrack admission on behalf of the drug pushers..

    The article is full of deceit, it talks about medication helping people and people needing medication which is nonsense, and tries to pretend that the solution to violent patients is medication. That last is a human rights abuse and horror.

    They need to go back to providing respite and restraint without psychotropics.

  • Essentially two different gangs of drug dealers are arguing over spitting up the profits. One group has developed a new computer blue super meth that should bring in more profit the other gang leader say they broke the meth gang rules and says it’s so unfair because maybe they can get their own super computer blue meth in at the finish line.

    No one care how this new super meth affects the addicts not even Sandra the gang rep news agent. ie “Again, I am going to set aside the relative merits of this type of efficiency”

    So what to do?. I know , lets ask the relatives of the addicted lobotomized drug users. How should psychiatria death drug dealers spit up their loot? Surely they will know what is fair and what is not?

    Oh and someone protested to the board of Capos but maybe the fix is in – looks like maybe someone greased the fuzz.
    So when the corruptors are corrupt who u gonna call?

    Ah gee, I donno whatasay. What kind of advice to give a squabbling cartel?
    Somehow I think my intelligence was just beaten with a sledgehammer.
    ——
    How about Lesson One from Vito Corleone?

    “Vito is offended, replying, “We have known each other many years, but this is the first time you’ve come to me for counsel or for help. I can’t remember the last time you invited me to your house for a cup of coffee, even though my wife is godmother to your only child.” Don’t show up only when you need something.

  • @Vicki Martin, MD

    What is the role of the public school system where you are?
    Does the Bio-MED Industry in some representative form actively go to the schools and “recruit” more psychotropic consumers. Do the schools have some kind of measuring and snitch program to funnel children to the psychiatrists?
    ..
    My next door neighbor’s kid is on meds for ADHD and “Oppositional Defiance Disorder” His parents are just ordinary workers, they could never understand psychiatric subterfuge or know they are being played. I think he was inducted into this at school – but this is Canada.
    I also met a District Co-coordinator in charge of Community Treatment Orders here in Alberta. She was actively involved in drugging of school children – I think any disciplinary or behavior problems got a kid hot lined to the psychiatric community.
    That CTO co-coordinator worked for Government Health from the Public purse and the Bio-med industry has the complete support of the Government politicians here. I’ve traced some politicians network of contacts.
    Given their awesome combined power political , economic and psychiatric it seems lie entire generation of nails sticking out are getting pruned.
    ..
    I expressed horror to the CTO Officer about a particular kid getting psych drugs – she completely misunderstood me and commiserate on “Yes , how terrible it is they have Schizophrenia at that age.” She didn’t even get what I was saying to her face so firmly was she locked in the ideology.

  • Holy Hannah!
    Got a family member this applies to (was age 2). Well another two of us already knew this. Well now we got an actual !!STUDY!! corroborating what we really already knew. This link is getting bookmarked and SENT!

    We’ve known this in planning our strategy on how we can help here. The situ is complicated by other family politics. Isn’t it the pits when I have the experience to help but and the assistance of yet other family members but we don’t dare upset the current applecart. I can’t give away any more than that but it sucks to have to stand down and watch a life wasted.

  • @ Anon, Very well said, right on ad beautifully expressed.
    ..
    Yes, “inside yourself’. This is it, the inner world. I wish I had had someone like my post-cure self to explain things to me long before that. The wild ride and long road I took might have been much different.
    After I passed over, I reviewed my life and I wondered why with amazement, from all the counselors, shrinks and workers I had seen in my life from all those I had sought out help, why no one had ever told me about this really simple stuff – about emotions, about how they worked , how they could transform and how they were related.
    ..
    But now I know , sadly why…in the general public their meta consciousness, their awareness of their consciousness is very very under-developed and social oppression helps to keep it that way.

    Yes, there is a lot of work to be done.

  • Not completely – (Todd Centybear, executive director of the Howard Center, a Fletcher Allen psychiatrist and a hospital social worker) all these three people need to stand trial and pay for their crimes against humanity.

    Kidnapping, forcible confinement, forced doping, physical abuse for starters. All crimes worthy of capital punishment. Vermont still upholds the Death Penalty.
    Ah good… they still have the electric chair in Vermont, barbarism for barbarism…

    Well if that don’t go over, how about a civil lawsuit and several million in damages.

  • Wow, Nightmare, USA.

    I was astonished ten years ago after I came back from overseas to see SSRIs advertised during the Letterman broadcast. The Juggernaut is just picking up steam.

    ..
    They must have Dr. Phil in their pocket. The other day I heard him tell a guest something not to worry because there are “medications” that can help her.
    ..
    That got my attention like 220 volts! Say what!!!
    Oh no Dr. Phil, say you ain’t a shill.
    ..
    “Don’t worry, we got a custom lobotomy just for that! Tomorrow you’ll be just fine” …

    Then he mentioned the DSM and…it wasn’t good…

    —-
    I listened to Mr. Silver’s statement as difficult as it is to listen to it. One of the commenters said they harvested his son’s organs after his death.
    ..
    Nightmare, USA
    How about some New Nuremberg trials?

  • It’s amazing how Americans accept insurance companies (profit making corporations) as something legitimate. Such is the power of propaganda control. As a Canadian, I have never worried about a hospital bill or a doctor bill in my life. Same goes for the Brits and dozens of other civilized countries.

    The only purpose it seems of “insurance companies” is to exploit the citizens and make the elite owners richer and more powerful by denying health services and facilitating early death in citizens useless to the state (corporate enterprise). This is because insurance is a mechanism that makes profit by denying services not giving them.

    Interesting story Cory, thanks for sharing.
    .

  • Ha Ha Ha, This is so insane it’s hilarious.

    Fascist America – Love it or leave it, yeah I’d leave it ASAP

    Get the Heck out of there, run , don’t have kids, keep the hemlock handy.

    I guess she could just let them win – give away everything she owns, take the meds and say OK now house me and feed me til I die. When you can’t win then lose with enthusiasm.

    She’s been murdered already, might as well accept it.

    Schumacher, who had been seeing a psychiatrist for a couple of weeks, arrived for a previously scheduled appointment Dec. 19, the day after the bodies of her estranged husband and her son were found.

    It was before her appointment at the University Health Center that her doctor had University of Vermont police on standby to take her into custody if she did not admit herself.

    Seeing a psychiatrist – well that was really dumb. Would have cost less to read MIA.

    You believe in the system , you die by the system. If someone believes in authority they might not hesitate to turn me in for my “thought crimes”, so should I feel any sympathy here?

    Don’t trust authority, don’t follow leaders, watch your parking meters, you’ve been warned for decades.

    I wonder did the shrink get a bonus for every patient he turned in – something like that must be in effect.

    If I were all of youse, I’d be careful. You are obviously suffering from Protest Defiance Disorder.

  • Thanks Alex, I’m glad someone is hip to what personal growth is.
    Protecting the egos of people who are “afraid to be blamed” is repressive.
    Here what is being sacrificed is individuals and they seem to be sacrificed to something that is not alive the concept of “family”. This sounds like a social-political agenda.
    ….

    Get down. Be blamed.
    Don’t do the crime , if you can’t do the time.”
    If you are not guilty you got nothing to worry about.
    If you are then fix it, if you can’t fix it then go through the guilt about it and fix yourself.
    The blame stops here, I take the blame, Why not?
    Do it for love.

    ..
    Well OK maybe you have to do magical intervention with some kinds of people. A little legerdemain, a sleight of hand.. nobody is to blame but how about changing this thing here…
    But overall you can’t build on lies or repression and that has to be dealt with sooner or later.
    If you try to save the family regardless, that also is abusive and repressive.- some parents are loveless or frozen in some kind of neurosis in that case all the work or the main work is done with the afflicted person and they will decide their own future regardless.
    Unfortunately the parents usually pay the bills, so taking money from violent or sexually abusive or controlling parents to help them do their thing is not necessarily a good thing. So I suppose it’s best to play a game with these people ..like “gee no one is to blame but…etc”. I suppose at least it’s a hook.

    Usually anyone at all makes any significant personality changes , everyone they know , especially the parents will be in resistance to this change.
    In other words they want change, but they usually won’t like the change they get. Unless of course they have concurrent guidance or therapy.

    People have “levels” of emotional health, a person free of neurosis or who becomes free will be unhooked from those in lower levels or those still caught up in neurosis. Being unhooked they will be emotionally unhooked or disengaged from anything or anyone or any family member that can damage them and those in lower levels will have nothing emotionally to offer such a person. Although one could still relate to them out of compassion or obligation there is simply no emotional reciprocation that can occur.

    So you have to acknowledge this and let the ball goes where it bounces, trying to enforce relationships on other is social control and if you wish to replace the decision making mechanisms of others you might as well use drugs.
    Some “helpers” (eg Dr. David Allen – actually he goes further having an elaborate agenda of social engineering) is ) cannot accept that a family member upon getting healthy will want to break from an abusive or simply dead relationship and they try to force said sad thing upon them. They and probably most people do not realize that the only real bonds we have with others are in the mind , not in the blood. Blood is really an conception we have, it’s not a genetic control and if the conception is altered the bond is altered).
    ..

    It’s not necessarily trauma that causes problems but inner repression. Inner repression doesn’t even need much trauma. Some people were just very sensitive in their development. Some people can suffer oodles of trauma and just become extremely resilient because they are not engaged in inner emotional repression.

    To see if this group understands the idea of real change I look to see if they understand the idea of inner transformations. Most of these families have no idea of the inner life – that is a result of the culture they live in this is how the larger civilization is dysfunctional. So these type of people are easily fooled by the Med Shrinks. A lot of what this group does seems to be work on the outer – to provide a respite or peaceful secure environment for adaptation. This can result in what they call ‘recovery’ which to my view is not enough because there can be actual cure which is beyond recovery. It’s not certain but I suspect there can be more than what has been achieved.

    In the second tape Krista seems to have changed, I think she is no longer in doubt as to what caused her “episodes” and also she has advanced her understanding of the whole process in many ways.
    They are teaching the families (parents) about the inner life as opposed to the repressive forces of the “great culture” which dissuades them from knowing and practicing inner changes.

  • “Maybe we should ignore psychiatry and do what we want. Independent of what psychiatry does or doesn’t do maybe we should advance the fabric of our collective existence.”

    Of course. Psychiatry is proving more lethal to humanity that the Black Death.

    However the problem is that psychiatry will not ignore us. They are the foreteeth of a hungry monster. The best thing to do is to form cells of resistance and hope to keep the flame of knowledge alive in the ongoing and increasing storm of fascist oppression and control. Let us hope they break themselves and civilization can reconstruct – though this may take hundreds of years.
    It will take some patience to wait that long….

  • I had the same reaction as Alex here.This is an abhorrent attitude- the parents want to suffocate or control the child because they might be caused some social embarrassment. It’s also abhorrent to prevent anyone from suffering – that is the snuffing out of life.
    The choice of language here tells a tale of acceptance of repression.

    If families or a family member is to blame for anything, they need to take the blame for whatever it is and change it. There can be no useful insights that come from repression or avoidance.

  • @jonah
    Why does such a system continue to thrive and hold sway, over the lives of millions, in this country (the U.S.)?
    ..
    Because they are backed by a multi billion Drug Pharma Industry which is part of a larger drug industry which is one of the top earners of profit for the power elite (less that .01 percent) who own 96 percent + of the wealth, fund both political parties, have all the politicians in their pocket at every level, own all the major TV , Radio and news media that pipe propaganda into your head 24/7 and own almost everything you are dependent on -roads, cities, power, health services, housed cars etc. and almost everyone works for them as serfs or slaves with no ownership in those enterprises whatsoever and the overriding mission of the elite is to achieve absolute power and control over the US population.

    Its a system of economic fascism approaching near perfect totalitarianism.
    You have already lost lowlander. You don’t even know your enemy so you have no hope of winning or surviving.

    —-

  • @ Jonah

    “I agree, human experience is universal; and, to me, that is exactly what Joseph Campbell was saying: “We are all one.”

    ..

    No , it isn’t saying the same thing. He was drawing a goody two shoes conclusion for you.He was a storyteller and storytellers manipulate their audiences and tell happy endings.

    He didn’t tell you the full truth which is one part of humanity has to kill the other part who have made the wrong choices.
    The full truth is we are all one at birth, but later on in life “We are all Two”.
    You have to make a choice and not to make a choice is a choice.

    One idea is about similarity in functioning, the other is about what we do with it and what we are.

    The full truth is in the “Three Character Classic” which describes how all people are born the same at birth but become different by choosing one of two paths at some significant time in there lives.

  • Ah, RFK, A former leader of the America Power Elite a servant of economic fascists that achieved power through a sham electoral process in which the only parties represented are the parties of the rich.
    That RFK. – the one who took Marlyn Monroe to bed as a perk of his office.

    So when will the walls of oppression and resistance of American totalitarianism come sweeping down?

  • Too many responses about psychiatrists and not enough about how to suffer more and embrace it.
    ..
    I’d like to see more people share about how to promote more suffering. First we must understand that anti-suffering is anti-life. You can’t take away the negative an have only the positive. Some people have only the negative, if you take it away then they have nothing, they are dead and dead-ended.

    Intervention,challenge and confrontation is very important The first good thing my psychotherapist did was to punch me on the shoulder , yes to physically assault me. He then ridiculed me extensively for my reaction when asked what do I feel?
    (I only said my shoulder feels a little sore.}
    The co-therapist across the circle was very warm and friendly and commiserated how how the two punches were very loud sounding ,even to her sitting across the circle. But even she asked me the question I couldn’t answer – how do I feel about it?
    This started to wake me up, to tell me what was wrong.
    They started me. Six months later I put my fist to a pillow and started to become alive.

    Can u imagine a psychiatrist or another agent of the state even considering to do either of these two types of interventions – actually promoting a schizophrenic to be angry?
    No.

    But I try to make my point for various forms of interventionism and living in an interventionist way. Interventionism is never certain, it is always a risk.
    But ordinary living is a risk – when we live on the edge, we are excited, when we live in the protected zone we are bored.

    The neurotic lives in mostly a cold and locked in world. The popular psychiatric attitude is that people have stressors and thus the solution is to avoid them – this guarantees mental illness – – growth processes in any form do the reverse. Popular attitudes are that when people are hurt we are to avoid any mention of it or discussion about it or even worse where it is inappropriate to pour loads of life-smothering sympathy on it.
    ..
    Popular attitudes do not distinguish between negative criticism meant to destroy and critical analysis meant to build up. For many people the inability to distinguish between the two (because of their background) puts a “cork in the bottle” – the healing elixir of life cannot flow out.

  • @Jonah
    Sorry Jonah, IMO, You are one of the infected, you have been compromised. You have been propagandized to support your own oppression and worse not even see it. This is an indoctrinated mental illness or in fact is the source is the source of much mental illness.
    If I’m arguing with you , I’m arguing with the system that created you and the system that you have been indoctrinated to protect. Your arguments are not your own arguments they are from your handlers and you have been indoctrinated to argue , to be a doberman of the system, to identify with it and protect it. Compliance has been achieved in you.
    This is the propaganda that has been extended into the population through social indoctrination of all kinds . I find these arguments tedious and repetitive. Always the same over and over again cutting off the ever recursive the tentacles of a monster..
    .

    North America is under totalitarianism. You don’t need a dictionary to figure it out, you just have to be wide wake. Neither you nor a community representing your interests own anything significant that you have – least of all your mind. Oh yeah – some people can hollow out small domains of escape with in the oppression, for now anyway.

    I absolute do not believe that all those who fought for individual freedom have been weeded out and killed off.

    You see? You are defending against things I haven’t said because you haven’t considered these concepts openly and objectively.


    “Simply, I believe civilization is alive; and, though isn’t well, it’s well worth saving…”

    Yeah , well you can’t even save yourself and story after story here shows that people can neither save themselves from themselves from the system (civilization ) that oppresses them.
    You can’t even separate your survival from the the survival of the fascists who own you.And you make it all one ( a concept which which was indoctrinated), it’s not all one – replace the world civilization with “system” – you mistakenly think it’s the only system that exists, that can exist and you want to save it all as a unit thus saving your oppressors.

    ” Joseph Campbell once said: “Survival is the second law of life. The first is that we are all one.”

    These and the other things are the general ugly thing I object to. The use of “lovey dovey attitudes” which actually promote and indoctrinate fascism and oppression – it’s nothing to do with love.
    In this fascist indoctrination -you learn to feel guilty about protecting yourself from oppressors – you didn’t first learn it from Campbell you probably were indoctrinated with anti-survival attitudes and to surrender to the “system” in Kindergarten.
    ..
    We are not all one, I am not one of “you” for sure, I do not represent the interests of my oppressors and reject them and all their agents and sockpuppets. and I am not one of your “them”, I am one of “us” the free, I have freed myself.

    “A collective commitment to the well-being of each and every member of society.”
    It’s good that you should understand what you do not have.

    I don’t attempt to define things. I attempt to explain things I know to be true form my experience. You can’t learn these things by arguing about them at this level – this is the level of consequence or effect so this is another useless conversation.

    I, myself, don’t ever claim to know what “mental illness” is, because everyone uses that term in his/her own way.

    Then perhaps you need to suffer more til you can say or know something definitive. Human experience is universal – that is First Law – that’s something psychiatrists try to deny by refusing to understand that something like for instance , schizophrenia , is just a dysfunction of normal psychology and by looking at normal psychological processes they can usually find a cure.

    Szaz is mostly useless in that most people use him to evade responsibility and avoid success and self-change.

    So the cure for the infected is to learn self-change and adherence to growth principles which include learning to accept suffering. When you become cured, the walkers will smell you and try to tear you to pieces. The cure can’t be achieved in arguing against a propaganda system.
    Genuine psychotherapy is actually revolutionary which accounts for it’s suppression by the fascist system we live in. It creates people that are self-protective and will challenge oppression. If people want a healthier society they have to advocate for the acceptance of true growth processes and the elimination of the anti-growth processes in popular culture. This is actually a revolutionary act agaisnt a totalitarian system

  • I am aware that I’m indoctrinated, but the Dutch culture is *very* strong in that. I feel drugged. Submission is communicated on so many levels. In this country the basic premise is “trust the government, it takes good care of you.” I think people know me as the guy who has a big mouth – who criticizes everything – without knowing how to escape.

    You have no idea how repressive this country is, and neither do the people who live here.

    What can I do?

    @Xen
    I forgot to mention this one thing. If you complain abut the social system and say you don’t know how to solve it, it means your identity has been compromised, you have been co-opted in some way to protect the very system that oppresses you. Your aggression has been cut off at the knees.

    Also let us compare the statements you make above with all of the sympathetic and wimpy statements you make about your oppressors. It doesn’t compute.

    You see, if people can see, understand the social problems they have, that is 90 percent , the solutions are obvious. If people saw the truth there would be a revolution in one hour and in one day all the regimes would fall.
    But they don’t. Submission and compliance is indoctrinated in the masses. You want to change a part but cannot touch the root and burn down the tree.
    Learn to fight – put a little hate in your heart. it couldn’t hurt.

  • @ BeyondLabeling a.k.a. Jonah on January 19, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    It’s possible I got you wrong, so I will give you and extended answer.
    ——————-
    I repeat and extend my answer:

    “It is already crystal clear, you just have to accept it. The psycho-zombie Apocalypse has already happened.”

    My analogy stands. If you are asking who are the infected, you are probably the infected and don’t realize it, in which case you need deprogramming.
    Like in the “Walking Dead”, everyone is infected. The reason .01 percent fascists rule is that they have the willing compliance of a thoroughly indoctrinated slave class. One does not exist without the other. You can say this compliant slave class has been culturally cultivated or even genetically cultivated over generations and all those who fought for individual freedom have been weeded out and killed off.
    If you try to fight for freedom the dobermans that will tear you to pieces will be the “innocent victims” of the fascist ruling class.
    ..
    Everyone has had their brains compromised , they want to fight for freedom just so long as it doesn’t oppose the fascists that rule them – they have been crippled by fascist-compliant ideology since childhood.
    The larger picture is where do the psychiatrists and the dopey-compliant-dopers that believe them come from? They are all the extensions or products of fascist indoctrination and fascist ideology – They all “believe” in their system – like the ancient Egyptians when their fascist oppressors die they will weep and wail and bury themselves with them.

    Psychiatry generally does not create mental illness – it aggravates it, and prevents it’s cure. Mental illness on the whole comes from oppression for the top down, the rejection of personal growth processes, personal self-protection in favour of compliance to fascism and adherence to ideologies and behaviors that reject the defense and self-protection of the individual.


    Mental illness is the primarily the distribution of repression and repressive social processes, distributed from the top down into the population in the form of interactive repressive social process which become internalized in individuals manifested as personal dysfunction.

    I would think that most people like myself who have gone through madness have become de-socialized and free from their indoctrinated illusions. I would hope so, else it would be a terrible waste of the madness. This is why the authorities and “normal” people (“walkers”) hate and fear survivors so much- especially the ones that have successfully passed through.

    The small group of survivors will have to do what they have to do to survive. You have some hard choices ahead – just don’t let them bite you.

    Civilization is already dead. I am neither nihilist nor advocating standing “idly by”. I am a survivalist. First Law of Survival is do not follow the zombies into the killing field no matter who they are. I disassociate from my personal self from anyone who is following a path of self-destruction, I will not let anyone pull me down.

    If you got the anti-virus for them, by all means save them, but otherwise, don’t go out there, they will tear you to pieces. If they all should be purged in a mass destruction due to the inherent contradictions of Fascism destroying itself, then:
    “Gee, What a pity – pass the gravy.”
    ..
    They die, the race is purged, survivalists of all kinds are free. I am free.
    OK , yeah a real tragedy but….
    Deal! Free at last, Oh Free at last!

  • @ BeyondLabeling a.k.a. Jonah on January 19, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    It is already crystal clear, you just have to accept it. The psycho-zombie Apocalypse has already happened. The small group of survivors will have to do what they have to do to survive. You have some hard choices ahead – just don’t let them bite you.

    The “asking a question” subterfuge to make angry attacks is a very old tired ploy.

    Please don’t use my name when you want to post an opinion. Stand on your on two feet and get off my coattails.

  • @BeyondLabeling a.k.a. Jonah on January 19, 2014 at 1:51 pm:

    They said, “You have a blue guitar,
    You do not play things as they are.”

    The man replied, “Things as they are
    Are changed upon the blue guitar.”

  • Yeah but that’s not the free world, bio-psychiatry is dead in the free world where it counts. Maybe the infected zombies will cannibalize themselves,self destruct, die out and we will survive.
    Bio-psychiatry has no evolutionary value – it is the death of evolution – it turns humans into flat-lined slugs – only the resilient can survive life.
    ..
    Unfortunately like the Black Death it will take it’s toll on humanity but I guess like the Black Death it will purify the gene pool and eliminate those not fit to evolve into the next form of homo sapiens sapiens excellentus.

  • “It is time that we get over ourselves and appreciate that a full existence as humans is fleeting and full of pain, suffering . . . and beauty.”

    Yes there is far too much talk here of psychiatrists. The people here give them undue attention. They are lopheads, the human part has been lopped off, you will find more intelligence in a parade of oysters following a walrus.

    I remember over 40 years ago, when I was in the hospital 14 floors up pressing the elevator button.

    I became terrified that I would fall through the floor and go plunging all the way down to my death. The floor had become insubstantial like a cloud and I would fall through.
    And falling, falling, I would become smashed at the bottom, bones broken in a hundred places speared by the re-bars and I would watch my own eyeballs pop out and go rolling in the thick and spurting blood.
    I tried not to think but my mind betrayed me over and over and would not let go of the reality of my doom.
    And so, I fell.
    And flailed and fell.

    So join hands with me in space and time as we go falling in the void, there is enough fear to go around it will be endless and ever drenching.
    We will have good crunch.
    ..
    So , in the transition to the third Bardo, the aspirants go into the wilderness and fast for ten days then sit at night by the open fire and chilly night. They can no longer tell if the wolves that rip them apart and chew at their bones are real or not.
    The psychotic shatters the fundamental illusion of physical reality.
    And it is an illusion, I’m sorry folks , there is no reality. Oh, it’s there, but then again there isn’t.

    It’s a valuable experiential lesson from suffering. It’s a bonus.Don’t waste it, it will give you power especially over those who live and have only lived in flatland. That is why they fear you , you know another world, an inner world, that terrifies them and that they cannot understand.


    So two monks met a psychiatrist at a riverbank and the shrink said “Hello’ , As they walked on , one day later , one monk said
    “I wonder what he meant by that?”
    To which the other monk said “I left the psychiatrist at the riverbank, why are you still carrying him?”

  • “I think you are making sweeping generalizations about psychiatrists and it remains to be seen whether or not psychiatry can reshape itself to the new paradigm of care people are demanding in ever greater numbers. I say, give it a chance.”

    Very good Pharma Prop especially the stuff how you co-opt the survivor movement.

    I day use a broom on the system and sweep it into the dustbin, and if that doesn’t work use the broom handle.

  • “Tossing research out the window is a very naive approach, considering how the world works, unless one is suggesting that we don’t need government services anymore to support individuals going through extreme emotional and mental challenges.
    – a pharma’s Self Appointed Propagandist”

    If you stop tossing experience out the window you would find the “research” has already been done by successful survivors.
    It’s so absurd that they are spending money on “research” to find chemical imbalances on the head of a pin but do not spend a single dollar on many forms of psychotherapy which have all demonstrated the ability to facilitate many kinds of cure.

    The Government services you mention currently amount to a successful mass lobotomization and thus mass murder program.

    Legislate to take one tenth of the profit from the drug industry and funnel it into social interventions and the mental illness will start to have a 90 percent cure rate instead of a 99 percent lobotomization rate.

  • A related controversy was on last night CBC Fifth Estate

    http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/2012-2013/the-man-who-hears-voices

    “Jeffrey Arenburg was found not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder for the death of Ottawa TV sportscaster Brian Smith in 1995. He told his story for the first time to the fifth estate host Bob McKeown.”

    The issue is forced medication of this person , a murderer.

    Very important issue!

  • “I’m sure that any of us escaped from psychiatry could make a workable plan for peer rescue during a crisis ,some of us would even volunteer.”

    I don’t think so. Just cause you might empathize with their experience doesn’t mean you are going to “strike up a conversation”, or even likely too. More than likely you’d be getting knifed or getting someone else killed while fumbling for your stun gun after you found out that “resistance is futile, pitiful earthling!”

    Leave it to professionals – advocate trained intervention teams and not killing squads but don’t fool yourself that you can do it – there is more than psychology involved in this – you need people with years of experience in physical altercations.
    It’s just police work – good or bad – nothing else – it has to happen – been going on for centuries. The real need for help is elsewhere in the timeline.

  • “My mind has been to harrowing places, where loneliness, fear, and the bewildering intensity of it all brought me to my knees. Since then, on both voluntary and paid bases I’ve sat with people in the midst of comparable experiences,

    ..
    But I have to admit that over the past few months my need for self-preservation required me to avoid these types of interactions.”

    It’s a little unclear…. what happened?
    ..
    I’ve been in the worst possible, and am now on the other side , I have a foot in both worlds.

    People don’t suffer enough is the problem. Some people have nothing but their suffering and yet the shrinks want to cheat them of that.
    They want to make an ocean of spotless minds in a spotless world bathed in the eternal and vapid sunshine of chemical suppressants. An end to evolution.

  • “Talk to someone on the street, ask them what causes depression, most everyone will say low serotonin.”

    Really? So that’s what psychiatry did with all it’s propaganda power.

    Things have changed – when I was a kid people got depressed from bad things happening in their life. I guess now you have to shoot up some anti-serotonin to get depressed according to the shrinks.
    ..
    When I was still suffering from a schizophrenic condition , I occasionally got depressed, I remember it a s a very nice protective feeling sort of helped to insulate me and soothe me for a while, once in a while.
    Some people used to say “Have yourself a depression day!” I agree – it’s good for you.

    I really hope people here will begin to understand what “a pro-suffering cultural shift” really means.

  • “make a lot of people just tune out the message.”
    ..
    Don’t weaken in the face of fascism. If they are propel infected with bio-med ideology and getting primary rewards for the use of force then being nice to them won’t change them.

    Let them tune out and drop dead. You don’t need them. We need to dis-empower them not cater to them.
    There is nothing wrong with “all or nothing” – personal transformation requires total commitment and making an all or nothing choice to come alive or to remain dead.
    If a blanket works I’ll use it to smother the pharma agit-prop. They are waging propaganda war backed up by billions of dollars – it needs to be blanketed.

    ===================
    “aren’t we invalidating the voices of consumers and survivors who claimed to have been helped by such approaches possibly bio chemical in nature?”

    Yeah! And it’s great became those voices are invalid. And those voices aren’t even their own voices – they are the propped up puppets of the psych industry. The only voices that are valid are those that have come through to the other side and stand on their own two feet.

    ———————

    ” into practical clinical protocols to help individuals safely withdraw from psychiatric medications.”

    In what dreamworld is that? You want that done, it has to be from successful survivors , it won’t come from the Indu$try of P$ychiatric $Death$ .

  • Oh yeah, wonderful “relief” –
    For who? the observer who can’t take it. Without ones’ symptoms one has not life. Usually the afflicted love their symptoms a lot more than the outside “altrusit” can understand.
    ..o

    Te use of psych-meds produces lobotomies pure and simple,
    It’s not that psych meds are dead but psych meds are death.
    True they might be useful as a temporary bring down but permanent use is permanent death.
    ..

    “potentially promising avenues of research”
    Ha! You are humorous. The lonesome cry of the “Sickeninious Ignoramus” bird, the bird that feasts on the leavenings of humans in the mental health industry.
    comm.

    Nobody needs research. We already know everything we need to know. We just need to practice tried and true methods of wellness and cure. If you don’t know what to do then ask a successful survivor – they will smarten you up.

  • “but it just doesn’t make sense that talking to one another, preaching to the choir, is going to make much difference. – TC”

    I don’t see this a s preaching to the choir here. The people here need to learn this ie “a pro-suffering cultural shift”
    There is actually far less support here for this than you might imagine. Far too much they try to drown and murder life and love with sympathy and support. I am so sick of seeing those sentiments misused as instruments of control -It’s Bio-psych ideology without the meds.

    People have been corrupted and co-opted at a basic level without realizing it, They need to change the goalposts as this essay suggests.

  • No the police are better at it. They do need the tazers and the guns. When the chips are down , an amateur will do worse than a trained professional.
    ..
    Just some are police units are treating all calls as criminal , even they have an intent to punish beforehand.
    good at it and some are not. Luck of the draw.
    One question is how does it happen anyway – the cities are human sewers in the first place and the families vacant in their understanding of the inner life because of the deliberate incuilcation of a shallow society- it’s just bound to happen.
    And the polcie as just hauling them off to the lobotomy factory so the thing is like the self defense expert says don’t be there in the first place. Change the civilization, the way you live, the way you work , home school the kids , get out! the whole city way of life is sucking people into the Forbidden Zone. The system is disease by repression from the top down, there is no changing just one simple thing to find a sane civilization.

  • This is what I mean, why the people here are the lucky ones to know the full news. It’s over the heads of the masses because Pharma’s got them in the bag.

    Talked to a store worker the other day at Wal-Marts. His cousin’s schizophrenia – on meds – pity about that brain disease. He never heard of any other paradigm. He was astonished to hear me say there is no such thing as brain diseases. But what am I going to do? Deprogram every T,D,and H at the unit level? For every one you inform, 10,000 more empty vessels are filled with crapola.

    They got them in the bag. The fix is in.

  • Well yes something good came – for all those who heard this story in full it’s social awareness – forearmed is forewarned.

    I wouldn’t take knowing this story in full for granted – as the Pharmaprop gets stronger less and less people will know the even hear anything about these things except the “official” version. And actually even now they don’t the people here are in the minority – reality is defined for the masses by what the TV says.

  • Oh. “Mother Bear” – I think this is the person who has an issue about “blaming the patents”?
    So the “families” don’t critically introspect – this is a danger – I always evaluate on this.

    ===
    Listening to the radio talk — on and on about the symptoms totally irrelevant to my perspective wish they’d get on to the curative process – 30 minutes in and still nothing – very annoying – ok that’s it getting to the real story now – just went off meds slowly but nothing about emotional transformations.
    So the story is she just went off the meds and life was ok as something had changed or energy released (for later yoga and writing) so the psychosis was the pain for the transformation I suppose but not self-examined though i guess it worked – basically says she doesn’t understand what happened. Not much self-examination here transformation maybe because of not wanting to “blame”anyone. Sort of laissez faire. It is more like recovery rather than psychodynamic change.
    They are discussing abuse – A blase or even nice family that simply avoids strong emotions can be just as toxic as abusive families – that’s something that is not well understood.
    Too much lightfoot dancing around here on this subject.

    Overall a very very soft approach far too worried about saving egos for my taste. Just not my style – IMO, the more egos you crack the stronger the results – after all egos were meant to be broken, why waste all that madness?
    To each their own taste, good if it gets some results, so long as it’s not NAMI.

  • I agree with you Jonah. Because first of all I saw clearly the emotional problem in a similar case.
    But also , blaming cannabis is the same thing as blaming bad brain cells – it is blaming the outer instead of changing the inner. OK so not everything is the “inner” but it’s the first place to look for a problem.
    It’s the problem with mass society, everyone falsely learns that everything inside is fixed.
    ..
    There has to be some deep anxiety and fear which makes the person susceptible to cannabis induced psychosis. Getting rid of the cannabis is no fixed solution, in fact next time it could be another stressor
    So when they “recover” and stop having symptoms the relatives want to think it’s “OK now” but it’s not, it’s a false security.
    Pay to psychology what belongs to psychology.

  • Te thing is is the person takes genuine psychotherapy they will probably be changed or get cured and the family won’t like it , in fact they will resist it. Usually the family has to change to learn a new way of being and existing according to growth principles.
    A lot of people when they learn what they have to do and accept and change in themselves they prefer eh other person to remain sick.
    ..

    ” but in family after family, recovery for a person struggling with psychosis means a shift from controlling the other to controlling yourself. It means looking at how you relate to your relative, rather than what’s wrong with them. And it means getting support to make change.”

    Yep that’s it support for change is kind of an oxymoron because promoting change usually means kicking out the support.
    And within the above paradigm the afflicted person can get genuine personality change psychotherapy but the others are outside of that process.
    Some social manipulators such as Dr. Allen which some here are familiar don’t like that, they want to manipulate the family to “remain together ” like they were puppets in some kind of dysfunctional confluence.
    More often than not, the cured will go their own way and with a better standard of health and others will have to learn to follow them or be discarded.

    It’s better that society and families learn a new standard of mental health and take their lumps. The entire civilization needs a new way of being, accommodation is not going to work.

    What will be, will be, Cera sera.

  • “I hope everyone here will read this article for a better understanding of the problem.”

    You recognize one kind of scapegoating propaganda from a fascist system and yet fall for another kind. The system on the main creates it’s own criminals with wealth deprivation and social oppression.

    The elite has all kinds of propaganda to find scapegoats to deflect attention from themselves.

    The structure of our society which most people internalize and perpetuate creates a criminal class and a victim class. The larger victim class is victim to both the criminal class as well as the economic repression of the elite.

  • “If you don’t have anything to hide, you don’t have anything to worry about.”

    In regards to being under the jackboot of economic fascism we do have a lot to worry about.

    “If you don’t have anything to hide, you don’t have anything to worry about.”
    In regards to critical self-inspection if you hide from yourself you end up in the phantom zone.


    Every organization and group outside of ourselves puts their own interests first – always.

    So no guns for the people that probably need them the most for protection against victimization..

  • I’ve seen this before. Probably if it wasn’t marijuana there would have been another stressor that produced the same result. The most likely explanation is some kind of emotional dysfunction in which case growth-oriented psychotherapy could have cured the basic condition that made him susceptible to marijuana.
    When I was a schizophrenic I could not handle marijuana all.
    How did your son deal with anger? Was he able to use it well and deal well with the expression if it from others. This is the usual sensitivity.
    A good healthy focus of anger makes a person very strong and nothing makes the person more susceptible to “symptoms than fear and anxiety about experiencing one’s own anger.
    Bio-med ideology teaches the exact opposite to this paradigm.

    If genuine psychotherapy were funded once again , it would put most of psychiatry out of business. This is why psychiatrists are so adamant about rejecting psychoterepy for the level (4 ?) conditions and refuse to investigate it.They also convinced the insurance companies not to fund psychotherapy.
    But they do fund a version of psychotherapy which they have renamed or dubbed “talk-therapy” and other kinds of such groups which are actually support groups to encourage drug or social control compliance.
    Now if you had searched for help 40 years ago, Lamarc , in my era, you might have even found psychiatrists practicing genuine psychotherapy like I did, and you would have had a much better chance for your son.
    But I read your story – you searched and just found vacant eyed or incompetent psychologists who pointed you to psychiatric hospitals. It’s all about the money. I myself decided not to go into psychotherapy after I was cured because I thought to myself “Who wants to be poor”?

  • Every parent that buys the brain disease baloney and lobotomizes their kid with meds without any other efforts has already killed them anyway.

    As for “other efforts” for I could spend a year writing about that but most shrinks and parents seem to suffer from some kind of blunted aspect in this regard.

    If someone offered me the choice between a lifetime med lobotomy and a bullet I would choose the bullet.

  • If people don’t want to be judged , that is a red flag right there. There is no progress without judging and critical evaluation.
    The first question I always have to parents is how did the child handle being angry and respond to anger in the home in the course of their development. Actually it is a question examining the parents as well.
    Once I got “Oh no! Johny was always a good kid”
    Yeah. Cest va. There it is.
    99 percent is traced to developmental anger problems that are most probably resolvable.
    They have to go the other way, to re-examine the basic values.
    —-

    Being “nice” can be a prohibition agaisnt growth and a blind spot for the parents. Expectation to be “normal” and not negative can be anti-growth.

    Similarly I hear about really happy families where the child suddenly kills themselves because of living in secret depression. Why “secret” is always my question. This other aspect, of depressives which is not in my background experience is something I find interesting and would like to explore.

    “Can we instead have a productive conversation about how we can keep this from happening again?”

    Well if you don’t want propel to critically self-inspect behavior the only other alternatives are leather or chemical straight jackets and to shoot them when they escape their restraints.
    Situation normal for a fascist society.
    Nothing wrong here – move along.

  • The ideology of the Bio-med establishment has a very real effect in steering people away from growth and away from curative processes. I have three living relatives still affected. All done in on meds since childhood – one I am working with very well – the other two I cannot reach and cannot even get near
    Why?
    Because Bio-med propaganda has already taught them that the things I say are the words of the devil – those are the negative things they are to never listen to and avoid. I cannot even get them to engage – they are lost, they are like in a bottle and that bottle is firmly corked by the authoritative environment in which they have been brainwashed.
    The brainwashing of Psychiatric Social control system is very real and very effective.
    When you are in “open Dialogue , just remember that you are in “open dialogue” with calculating, lying, deceitful, ruthless, self-serving, profiteering monsters, And if the people and families have nothing , if they have no experience or knowledge of genuine cures, genuine growth processes , genuine psychotherapy, if they do not strengthen that , they will be steamrolled over by those professionals whose fantastically well paid jobs are to 24/7 steamroll over them.
    ….
    Do not soft soap it or give in to them, it is life versus death – your living death or your actual death versus their good life.
    I have had three family members commit suicide directly because of mus-prescribed psych drugs, one was very close and one ..oh yes.. one was a psychiatrist …he didn’t believe in “psychology” thought it was all BS and he self-medicated his simple neurotic problems to make them insolvable.
    ….
    Hoist by his own petard. The natural contradictions of modern psychiatry destroys itself.

    Keep your bowels open and your powder dry. Watch out for their dirty tricks, and don’t let them pull a fast one.

  • “I obviously believe that open dialogue therapy and reflecting process work have much to recommend them. – MO”

    Huh? What the heck are you talking about? Open dialogue is not a psychotherapy!!! That’s like saying a science fiction convention is psychotherapy. You need psychotherapists to have psychotherapy – it’s a focused profession and personality change psychotherapy is in total conflict the mainstream psychiatry , the recovery model and the entire system of governmental mental health systems.
    ..
    Your Open Dialogue may be useful for social reform and to provide respite and rest for those in crisis but it is not psychotherapy for any individual – though the result could be for those multiple ideologies and forces to decided to fund some psychotherapists and get the patients to effective genuine psychotherapists where the patients can do concentrated work on themselves without being undermined by profiteering control fascists. .
    That’s beyond apples and oranges, you are confusing two totally different processes. You don’t seem to have the foggiest what psychotherapy actually is.

    The question I would have had before I found out this ludicrous idea is: Were there any genuine psychotherapists over there in Finland and who is or will be funding them? And the same goes for America The question is how to get some of that 80 billion dollars a year from selling poison channeled in to genuine psychotherapy that actually has been proven to cure people.

    You have obviously been “disingenuously “agreeing” and “disagreeing” or humouring my statements (as well as those from the other people) which you do not seem to understand at all.

    I don’t rely on theories, I don’t need to see research, and I don’t have wishful thinking, I have experience. I know what works – there may be other things that work that I don’t know about and for that I am open, but I definitely do know what would work for those similar to myself. and that is the majority not the minority and not a handful such as currently exists. I have had over 500-800 hours of successful group experience in which i absorbed and learned to practice the mechanisms of growth processes. I can easily identify another person’s “work points” in normal conversation. Those are things that I know they can work on to create self-conversion. I have not failed to identify “work points” in any of the multitude of labelled incurables I have met, interviewed and known and yet they are not working on those attributes and are not being motivated to work and are in fact being discouraged and guided away form working on themselves in any manner whatsoever.

    ..
    I was functionally cured over 35 years of ago of schizophrenia a by a psychotherapy that was at the forefront of a growth trend that no longer exists. The founder is dead and the rest dispersed. The movement was defunded, erased and propagandized out of existence by a multiple billion dollar industry.

    You say you don’t believe in bio-med psychiatry but in fact you did not reveal your non-biomed model for cure and personality transformation. You could in fact have a no-biomed model following the same ideology of control that the bio-med model follows. I have a precise explicable model based on my experience – what is yours?

    “Larmac’s s son died because she could not find a genuine or competent psychotherapist in the whole of So Calif. It’s the typical story I get from many sources , and I get the whole story, the whole fruitless search for genuine help which I know can exist and doesn’t exist, and how they are funneled into the Bi-med death system – the few psychotherapies that are out there , cost 200-300 and hour, they are not funded by insurance or government and from every description I have gotten from them they do not follow the simple principles I just outlined to you and are thus a waste of time and money.
    … …
    So wheres’ the beef? – please post the registry of genuine psychotherapists which you say you believe in and “agree’ with me on what constitutes the elements of effective psychotherapy. I don’t have one name I can give despite eight years of searching since I returned to look that the mental health community.

    I have dozens of people privately messaging me, asking me where they can find the kind of psychotherapy that cured me and all I can say is it doesn’t exist anymore, anywhere in the world that I can find.

    I have been , looking and examining and not finding anyone or any organization. All the ones I’ve examined are fake, anti-therapeutic (designed to keep people sick) or ineffective or incompetent all because they do not follow the principles that I outlined.

    But you say you “agree” with those principles so where is the beef? Where is the reality you base those “agreements” on? Where are the people that practice those principles because if they are practicing that then I know they are curing people.
    There just might be such practices available but they are not advertising themselves well and they are not available to the mainstream and desperate mothers cannot find them. I have had dozen of private inquires from desperate mothers exactly like the one here and I can’t refer them to any one name.
    ..
    So if you have the beef , please post me the names and addresses and phone numbers of the organizations and people.
    ..
    Right now the Government is funding psychotherapy groups and social groups quasi-like psychotherapy at hospitals and mental health centers for all their consumers and they practice anti-therapy, happy face Fascism, (they discourage people from being “negative” and sharing negative experiences and negative feelings, the make them try to project and live up to a fake image of themselves, hiding their real selves, and encourage them to stay the same with sympathy and support and have the simple minded dedication to keep the participants on their meds. (This idea is even practiced with the med motivation – in that case it is meant to keep the peoepl functioning “as is” under the control of ideologies which service the plans of social controllers and social planners.
    And all of these people converted by Bio-med ideologies in “open dialogue ” will promote their fascist and controlling agendas and anyone being subjected to that is not receiving “psychotherapy”.

    As for the bio-med controllers they found out that if they just gave meds , people went off them so they needed a social platform and an ideology of fake health to help them stay on. Any fascist involved in any growth process will act to undermine that process and in any process where a psychotherapist is facilitating change there can only be one focus and one leadership because they are already battling the resistance of the patient.
    .
    Genuine Psychotherapy can live again and the cures can start generating again – the money and energy had to flow back into it. So that’s what they need to be doing in Finland getting the genuine psychotherapists back and in private and away from the fascist control exploiters.

    ….
    Because as you know what all doctors tend to say:

    Do you want a second opinion?
    My second opinion is the same as my first.

    And those are the opinions financed by 1/2 a mil to one mil a year salaries , dedicated time to create propaganda and backed by an ruling class of economic fascists.

  • Looks like things were under control until a senior officer came and basically decided to murder the teen. The teen was on the ground and stunned when the officer decided to finish him off.

    =============

    “Three different police departments’ officers arrived at the scene. The first two were able to restrain Vidal and calm him down, according to Vidal’s father. But then a third entered

    He says the third officer tased Vidal, knocking the 90-pound teenager to the ground. The officer then allegedly stepped forward with a firearm and said, “we don’t have time for this,” before shooting the teen dead. “

  • I think this is current news – this one looks like deliberate murder by the senior police officer.

    What’s the solution? Perhaps a complete change of life for affected families
    ie move to a safe zone. A Schizophrenic city? Stop trying to live like all the other people around you – you don’t fit in, your family doesn’t fit in, develop a protective system a protective place to live – quit your job , home school your kids, move to the the country, start a commune, become a survivalist. It’s never just one thing, people are locked into a system and that system is fascist and oppressive from the top down with incredible power – they own you and everything about you – there is no cure for fascism – if you can’t kill it, escape it – lock the gates give up trying to win in that system – sacrifice
    think about it.
    think about breaking the mold, break from the system instead of letting it break you

    police kill schizophrenic teen

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owl6ZEZK770

  • “In terms of medication practices, Open Dialogue is the only way of working in the developed world that has used neuroleptics according to a discontinuation/tapering strategy and is consistent with the best research we have.”

    That’s ridiculous. All those who have been cured of serious mental health problems including those who have taken meds and discontinued or tapered off have been totally ignored by all medical establishments.How would you even know? As soon as the patients stopped taking meds – they were no longer in the system and no doubt the files shredded eventually (as mine probably were). More to the point Psychiatry and Government Health services have never been interested in curing or the cured.
    ..
    Anyone, anywhere taking real psychotherapy (or some other social interventionist involvement such as meditation etc) can perhaps make progress, taper off and be cured.

    More research is not needed, what is needed is more practice of real psychotherapy and cutting the power of forced medication.
    The problem is that psychotherapy was murdered around 1980 and needs to be rediscovered. I see little evidence anyone is practicing psychotherapy in the world today and without that you have nothing.

    The Biomed model replaced psychotherapy with “Talk Therapy” which is anti-therapy as it’s goals are completely opposite to the goals of psychotherapy and problem resolution. Today most people are practicing anti-therapy without realizing it because they have been co-opted by Bio-meds fake anti-growth goals. And of course they are not achieving any results.
    Just using the word “recovery is using the bio-med model. People who resolve mental and emotional issues for the overwhelming majority do not go back to any previous sate they re-integrate not recover.
    If anyone must use this word, they must say how they define it as different from the Bio-Med paradigm and even trying that way is very ineffective.
    If you are serious about rejecting the bio-med model then you must reject the terminology which by using it captures you in it’s paradigm.

    “Actual therapy has to do with hearing someone’s story”

    More like real therapy has to do with facilitating a person to work on themselves through confrontational and interventionist techniques.

    This is the thing, I keep looking for and never see, Bio-med anti-therapy encourages dysfunction and dependence on meds or other social controls. So it uses sympathy, support, advice giving, happy face fascism, etc. etc. The therapists refuse to get emotionally involved (in a magus-like way) which is absolutely needed, refuse to encourage the expression and development of negative emotions and spend endless hours of aimless “talk” without any idea of self work.
    etc etc
    Just read Jan Wong’s account of her psychoanalysis in “Out of the Blue” for an idea of futility of aimless talk without directed work. They kept her on meds for years hopping from to another while she looked for one that “worked” instead of herself doing the work.
    The conclusion – I think she adapted , she didn’t change. And all that toll on a person’s life , to get nowhere is the idea of “recovery”. Her book is a good example of the failure of this contemporary idea.

  • I used to see a humorous short video on lobotomy – everyone in the neighborhood getting a lobotomy.
    Anyone know what the name of the short is – maybe there is a copy on youtube?

    If you haven’t seen it it is a great sarcastic satire. The lobotomy truck comes round the neighborhood like an ice-cream truck and there is a happy “lobotomy song”

  • Now Jimi Hendrix cured himself of introjection by going “Freak”:
    Listen to his song:
    If six was nine, he don’t care. He really don’t.
    ..

    If the sun refused to shine,
    I don’t mind, I don’t mind.

    If the mountains fell in the sea,
    Let it be, it ain’t me.
    Got my own world to live through
    And I ain’t gonna copy you.

    Now, if 6 was 9,
    I don’t mind, I don’t mind.
    If all the hippies cut off their hair,
    I don’t care, I don’t care.
    Did, ‘cos I got my own world to live through
    And I ain’t gonna copy you.

    White-collar conservatives flashing down the street
    Pointing their plastic finger at me.
    They’re hoping soon my kind will drop and die,
    But I’m gonna wave my freak flag high . . . HIGH!
    ……

    Falling mountains just don’t fall on me
    Point on mister Businessman,
    You can’t dress like me.
    Nobody know what I’m talking about
    I’ve got my own life to live
    I’m the one that’s gonna have to die
    when it’s time for me to die
    So let me live my life the way I want to.

  • Ah, OK here we go – I remember 3 but that is my memory from my ghost personality when I was Schizophrenic I tired to read ‘that’ book.- couldn’t concentrate but I did understand some concepts for later use – didn’t save me form psychosis but it was helpful after.

    Again – Here we go:
    “Introjection, Projection, Confluence and Retroflection.”

    http://zencaroline.blogspot.ca/2009/07/gestalt-processes-explained.html

    Very good explanation here.

  • “You have no idea how repressive this country is, and neither do the people who live here.

    What can I do? – Xen”

    I lived in Communist China for 12 years, I have studied repression up front. Now I can understand repressive forces much more clearly in the West.

    OK, Since you asked:
    ——————
    According to Gestalt Therapy practice and theory you are suffering from introspection – force fed concepts without being able to digest them. The cure is to vomit them out and re-digest what is palatable on your own time. Pity, I guess you did not have a madness successful enough.
    Well if you don’t want to go mad again, I would suggest to learn to say no, start off with small things. The test of freedom is if you can say “no”.

    When the light turns green don’t walk across immediately, hang back and let everyone else start – let the others get killed by the speeding cars first , then cross.

    literally and figuratively.

    use cash! 😉
    ..
    Practice contrarianism, even be like the Sioux “contrary” – literally walk backwards.
    .
    Develop Oppositional Defiant Disorder but don’t get medicated.

    ….
    Maybe throw some spectacular hissy fits in some non-threatening situations , let yourself go, vomit it it all out – then observe…
    —————
    Don’t worry , you can’t win. Once you accept that you can enjoy the fight.

    Giving up wanting, do without what you don’t need whatever or whoever it is, you only need yourself.

    Intelligence and insight has little to do with escaping indoctrination – it is simply luck of circumstance that wakes some people up – create the circumstance.
    ..
    You can go live in another country for a few years and stay away from the expatriate community. Then you can see your own culture in a new more universal light.
    If you can’t do that find a way to do a walkabout or a vision quest in your own country or do meditation for the purpose of transcending yourself.
    ..
    You see, that’s just a start from a few minutes thinking, just think some more, –
    You can put your elbow to your ear if you want.
    You can do it if you really want , then you can make the world a better place for you, for me, and the whole human race.

  • “I hope you will find a way to live in peace with the inner agent that may have made the same choices as they have, Xen”

    So,I think that is why you identify with them. You make the same choices they do.
    I don’t – I can say with absolute certainty, so I already live in peace and nothing disturbs it.
    —————–
    ” Two days ago a “chief personnel officer” of an Amsterdam mental health care institution was murdered in the street. I would suspect an ex-client to do something like that. If the people in the system are our enemy, why not kill them? Let’s go and kill the CEOs of all the multinationals, that will teach them..”

    Big deal, the guy got his Karma, no sympathy. But unfortunately individual acts like that will just make those institutions more repressive as they institute more security.

    Not teach them, eliminate them. This is the whole story of human history of which you seem to be unaware- the struggle of democracy versus despots . That is the only choice with despots and tyrants – eliminate them and replace them with democracy.

    But in order to prevent new despots from taking over it needs to be done with civilized law, group democratic agreement to dis-empower them, arrest them, them legally put the on trial and totally replace the old ruling class.
    ..
    But that is not going to happen as they engineer consent by having control of the propaganda system and social engineering.
    You are a prime example of this – you have been inculcated with attitudes to make you compliant, submissive and non-rebellious, you have all the good qualifications of a socially and genetically engineered slave and servant to the system. And you are not aware of how it works – that’s the genius of the propaganda system which is done through the schools, your parents. your peers and the mass media – all extensions of power from the ruling class.
    ..
    Incidentally, one of the benefits of passing through madness is to be deprogrammed from all of that. eg The adolescent goes mad but is also furious with their parents and society – this creates a huge conflict. The adolescent through madness is deprogrammed from all of the inducted illusions of the society around them – so they express madness within a mad system.
    Quite to be expected.
    ——
    “Much more would be gained if such a CEO would wake up and realize “WTF have I been doing?”
    Right? – Xen”

    No, that would be the same thing – if they did that they would immediately disband their power base and kill themselves in their agony of conscience. But all the Hitlers, Maos Stalins and CEO’s and Bio-Med psychiatrists have yet to do this service to humanity. 😉
    ….
    You don’t know the outside world, you live in a world of your inner struggle and identity confusion. Just vomit out all that stuff and maybe you can think more clearly. Maybe the solution is to learn hate and anger rather than resist it.Then you can become neutral.

    It’s impersonal to me dealing with oppressors I neither hate them nor bleed for them.

    ——
    “Let’s go”
    There is no “we”, the masses have no mind of their own, not yet any so until they do exclude me out of your “we”.

  • “And, I do agree with the commenter preceding me (skybluesight), to the extent…”

    Ah… I don’t quite know what that means, though I will accept it.
    However but no one should agree with me unless they can understand what Bio-Psychiatry Ideology is. It is more than just the dominant use of psychiatric drugs. It’s hidden ideas and unexamined or unchallenged assumptions which are in fact anti-growth and seem to have been indoctrinated into mass culture.
    ..
    Like for instance , here is a phrase from that ideology:

    “and discontinuing the medication when they startfeeling better

    What that heck does that even mean? (It usually has been bio-med code newspeak for symptom reduction rather than personality growth). It’s insulting to anyone who makes efforts and makes genuine progress. Change is not something that “just happens” as a result of controlling treatment as in controlling with drug therapy or manipulative “psychotherapist” it’s something as the results of efforts.

    After and even during my cure I could feel anger, sadness and pain and express them much “better” I have a better ability to feel and accept emotions than most ordinary people so yes, I do “feel better” than them.

    My life in society got worse and more miserable post cure – the worst it has ever been as I no longer fit in the mental health system nor the social system. It took years to create a new social identity.
    There was no way to tell who I was from looking at my external trappings.
    ..
    Inside my head was different,inside my head was ecstasy from experiencing being alive and I hollowed out in the world, explorations to enjoy while under the blanket of social oppression.
    ..
    What is a cured person? -it’s a working personalty – nothing to do with the exterior trappings. You find out by interacting with the person in shared narrative. Ticking the boxes doesn’t tell you this.

    That’s one of the shocks I got post cure when my social situation was still the same – ie who knew I was different and who didn’t – it was an eye opener.

    Mary is right about the “so-called” cures – propping someone up with or without meds with a network of 10-20 people to support them is not a cure – it has nothing to do with it – these are social problems something outside the purview of achieving personality transformation.
    And I dislike that intensely, thee false claims because they discredit me, a genuine cure.
    And it leaves me weeding through a big garbage bag of junk while I am searching for other cured people such as myself.

  • “I like your attitude, but something in me has to die – some kind of tolerance – for me to think that way. – Xen”

    Sorry Xen, I think the idea of an anthropomorphic God is a fantasy. I do respect spirituality though but not calls to “authority” or any such beliefs.

    Yes, you are right some part of you has to die but it is not “tolerance” – it is the protective bandage you have when you have to face reality. Toleration of fascism is not tolerance , it is retreat from self-defense and confrontation. This is probably part of the mass indoctrination which the rulers teach the masses to be complaint and submissive to the system of fascism Tolerance to fascism is not the moral high ground but is submission and inculcates a lack of courage in individuals to resist fascism in all forms. This kind of indoctrination is much assisted by having a population that are somewhat affluent and are slaves to indulgence.
    Perhaps you should experience some kind of death, that would teach you what the stakes are – what is the difference between success and failure.

    I knwo all the situations, it doesn’t matter what the excuses are – everyone has a choice – no matter how painful it is they have a choice. And contrary to what you suggest ,most of them choose not to know the truth because it simply is not convenient.
    In other words their ignorance is based on selfishness and self-aggrandizement.
    The people you feel sorry for and think are like yourself are in fact not like yourself. They will kill you over and over again they will lobotomize you, they will not cry about you and they will not remember your dust.

    I do not care “why”. It doesn’t matter to me, if a person is malevolent or ignorant. Death is death and you must fight against them for survival as ruthlessly as they oppress you.

    I am not after punishment or revenge I simply don’t care about them. Garbage is garbage – what is outside my sphere of ability I don’t care about and I don’t allow myslef to be pulled in to. I cut off my emotional involvement with all those who are in dysfunctional process either personally or socially.

    Do what you want – go ahead and weep for them love bomb them if you feel like it but you are not likely to succeed since you don’t know who you are dealing with, They are not innocently ignorant, they are willfully ignorant. Neither the devil nor the system made them do it, they chose it no matter what – they always had a choice,
    And the last thing is that once they have made this choice – they have changed – you are now dealing with the hardened oppressor.
    ..
    A parallel is like dealing with the afflicted – sympathy and support does not help them, A psychotherapist has to ruthlessly murder the old egos of his patients in interventionist confrontational style. They must be the “Assassins of love.”

    The system dogs are your enemy , keep your bowels open and your power dry and remain vigilant – don’t let them kill you while you are feeling sorry for them – don’t stay your words , don’t hesitate to find their emotional weak spots and strike down their arrogant egos when you can. Give no quarter to their propaganda defense.

    Don’t be tame and tamed. Act respectful, but don’t respect them. Be the best you can be. 😉

    ” This is not malevolent, yet it is insidious. The profession doesn’t do this because it is evil. It does it because it is scared. All attack is a call for help.”

    That’s beyond ludicrous. The human lust for power and control has been shown in everyone form Attila to Stalin to modern psychiatrists.
    History did not die, the nature of humanity has not changed, nor has the strategisms changed – only the weapons have changed. Being a volunteer for the ovens – that’s pathetic – you will win the Darwin Award and will make sure your line is genetically extinct.

  • How wonderful for you.
    But without offering any genuine psychotherapies or other such interventions for the purpose to achieve emotional transformations you are merely stacking the deck for the social control ideology.

    That’s like asking for ambergris in a world where all the whales have been slaughtered.
    But I can understand the difficulty of trying to be a handyman without a toolbox.

  • Yes, and Mary has the same ideology – it is hidden in this statement

    “with people suffering similar, terrifying, symptoms elsewhere,”

    Which is the systems (assumed there because of bad brain cells) are terrifying to the patients who would otherwise be “OK” f it wasn’t for those symptoms oppressing them.

    Nonsense. The patient is a person like everyone else, deep fear and anxiety produce the symptoms. that is what you have to deal with to evoke cure but that would involve understanding the person as an interactive emotional human being not the result of a disease.
    ..
    The Bio-meds always invoke the spectre of “terrifying” whatever as a justification for their inhumanity. I wonder what they are so terrified of? Perhaps a round of psychotherapy could help them resolve this. Most psychotics enjoy their “symptoms” and some to a great extent – the problem is they just don’t enjoy them enough. This is why they are breaking down – they have to break down to re-integrate.
    The Bio-meds interfere with this process instead of facilitate it which is part of healing.

    Yes, cause and effect is wrong and the wrong goal posts as usual.
    In the general society, in the mental health community and (I gather) from most modern “psychotherapy” (now in it’s misused form of “talk-therapy”) the people do not understand positive growth processes. This is encouraged and induced in them by economic and social oppression from the very top which generates ideologies of submission and control.
    They think they can graft a new tree on the branch of an old one.
    Not possible – they are doomed to failure unless they reevaluate their basic axioms and assumptions of what is positive and what is negative. They have almost everything reversed.

  • More complete nonsense. It’s all cloaked in Bio-med ideology whether or not the author realizes it. This ideology is anti-growth and the ideology of control.
    Bio-med ideology is more that just the meds it is an ideology antithetical to the development and use of of human characteristics which for the main are the emotional functions.

    Looks like another Bio-med wolf in “dialogue” sheep’s clothing because so long as the axioms of he Bio-med Model the efforts are used they are doomed to failure and Bio-med success which probably is the agenda..

    “The last thing we wish to do is to give false hope to people who have had great suffering”

    Yeah right, find another excuse to leave people in lobotomized death . No! This is the first thing you want to do, because if for instance you can get a schizophrenic to actually feel hope and be disappointed then you have helped them improve by actually feeling something other than anxiety. Now you can start to help them be resilient.
    Feeling hope and being disappointed increases an appetite for life not increases suffering. As usual the scientists do not understand that emotions are not themselves suffering it is the interference of them that causes suffering as well as the external events.

    ..
    Cure is not assessed by employment stats or symptom reduction. That is bio-med anti-human “recovery”.
    Cure is a change in the emotional functioning. Just that and nothing more and nothing less.
    It seems the clinicians are the ones “terrified of the symptoms. Symptoms are not some bizarre thing there because of brain cells, fear drives the symptoms. Bio Med psychiatry lobotomizes the fear, like saving the person by shooting them the head. Of course meds could be used judiciously along with growth psychotherapy not “talk psychotherapy” but so long as goals hidden in the above text are still in play there can be no progress.
    Personality reconstruction involves more pain not less. Beign weller than well means being able to have more and deeper negative emotions like anger and sadness and depression as well as positive and being more resilient in using them through acceptance.
    The Bio-med approach in contrast to this is to try to achieve emotional sterility. It is anti-evolutionary.

    When people don’t even know the goal posts they can’t possibly score.

  • And of course the “you might as well say” routine is from Alice in Wonderland.

    ..

    “Everyone tries their best.”
    No they don’t. They deliberately blind themselves.

    ..
    No Xen I don’t have a permissive attitude. “I was only following orders” was not an acceptable defense at Nuremberg. The line between life and death, between lobotomy and actualization is very thin – there is no room for compromise, permissiveness or ignorance.

    The wages of Bio-Meds are death.

    Living death,real death, poverty death – it is all murder.

    Xin Nian Kuai Le

  • Of course! You might just as well say that “I like what I get” is the same thing as “I get what I like”! or even you might just as well say, that “I breathe when I sleep” is the same thing as “I sleep when I breathe”!
    Einstein once said “Please pass the syrup” and someone gave him the vinegar. So sometimes, they can be the same thing.

    ….
    I suppose you might say philosophers let the flies out, psychologists study the effects of flies on philosophers, scientists just kill the damn things and psychiatrists medicate the flies to an eighty percent recovery rate.
    .
    happy new year

  • “The eternal sunshine of the spotless mind.”

    This is wonderful! It’s how to make zombie workers for the gulag – everyone lines up for 30 min of ECT once a week. ECT office is right beside the crematorium.
    ..
    Whistle while you work comrades, we live in forever sunshine! Well that is, those who can remember what whistling is…

  • I totally agree this article is misleading. Simply recovery here is defined as having less symptoms which is achieved by using lobotomizing psych meds.
    This report is pure garage and more Bio-Med Propaganda.
    ..
    A “a substantial degree of recovery” is garbage and useless. Here we go again- shuffling our feet massa..

    I was cured – freed – became independent, self-sufficient, emotionally functional and self-responsible. Anything less is not taking a full inheritance as a human being. This is the goal that can be achieved by many and if these “researchers” haven’t achieved it in any way , they are wasting their time on mythology.

    They need to just roll up their sleeves and get to work the real work of facilitating personality change – when you stop the baloney of trying to help people “recover” ie stop their symptoms and start treating them like human beings that follow the universal laws of emotional functioning it becomes obvious what to do for them.

  • @Xen I don’t know what eddie7 is on about. It sounds as if he is snipping at or about something but it is not clear. Perhaps I’m not in with the in crowd or perhaps he is deliberately vague.
    —–.
    Very insightful social analysis you have written.
    Ha Ha yes the neutrality of the press is the best way they maintain bias. They are indeed as Orwell said “a mass lying machine”.
    I know about the uniformed. I visit a Government Mental Health center with drop in recreational community services. Every single worker there of every rank and function knows nothing else except the Bio-Med Ideology. All those poor people , “consumers” – they are murdering, that could become full human beings and are policed so that it can never happen – they think they are “helping” them.

    But these are the sockpuppets were were indoctrinated never to challenge the system and it’s many illusions. At the top where all the direction comes from are fully aware ruthless selfish and greedy people – in the government, in the elite , in business and the media. They know fully what they are doing. they lie sincerely without guilt or conscience, the lust for power makes them psychopaths.

  • I was cured of schizophrenia over 35 years ago. Since then I have had two high pressure and existing careers.
    If anyone wants to learn to conquer schizophrenia they need to learn from or study the survivors who have fully been on both sides of it.

    “The Dutch GGZ (mental health care) is totally not equipped to deal with the real issues underlying SZ. It does not know how to give therapy or what the possible benefits of a different approach might be.”

    Describes the entire Western world “unhealth care”
    You described it all well. But they all forgot there is an exit,they are not even looking for it.

    Those health officials won’t like the answers either, for the way to health is through a completely opposite ideology from which they and most of society is indoctrinated in.

    Concurrent with Bio-med psychiatry is an ideology of health which is anathema to personal growth. This ideology has now been widely indoctrinated in the population.