You make some good points but your explanations wouldn’t cover kids who are misdiagnosed with ADHD due to other conditions like sleep apnea which leads back to this blog.
When Julia and Bonnie have done their studies, have participants been screened for medical conditions that could look like “ADHD” but aren’t? Sorry if this information was included and I missed it.
Sheesh, is MIA on an anti-technology crusade? Obviously, anything is bad when done to an excess but to crucify it as the culprit for all of society’s ills seems quite extreme in my opinion.
I hardly text due to being very slow in typing on a cellphone:) so for me, the issue is emailing someone vs. speaking to them. Regarding one person about whom I want to discuss some issues with, I intend to call him when I am ready because I think he responds better by phone. But with another person whom I, fortunately, don’t have problems with right now, I think emailing her is better.
I just don’t think you can make generalizations regarding how to best communicate with people and I am disheartened that various MIA writers are trying to do this.
Of course, patients won’t know that there is an alternative to the diabetes drug merry go around.
Most people aren’t opposed to anyone having benzos or any other drug as long as there is fully informed consent. The issue is there usually isn’t. That is what this bill is about.
Steve,
Saying they have never seen these reactions in all years of practicing is standard procedure for most doctors and not just psychiatry. A lot easier to blame the patient when things go wrong.
I just posted the link to the relevant facebook groups I belong to warn people to be careful who may post about suicidal ideation. And for all you readers who think I am preventing people from accessing help, forcing people to be hospitalized against their will does not solve the problem and in fact, makes them more suicidal.
Hi Julie,
Hmm, I am wondering if people don’t want to scare folks into believing that psych meds cause permanent damage. That is a debate that constantly comes up in the psych withdrawal community.
Good luck with the light box. Unfortunately, it has not kept me awake during the day and too much use causes agitation.
That is great you don’t need a cpap machine. Unfortunately, I do as confirmed by a home and two full-scale studies.
Julie,
Thank you for precisely nailing the issues. It greatly made my day that someone like you understands what is going on.
I know what you mean about backing out of commitments. Fortunately, when I do it with a friend, she is very understanding.
I am not surprised at all that sleep centers don’t acknowledge damage by drugs. Heck, I have had sleep docs recommend drugs that were related to the ones that I feel destroyed my sleep system.
bcharris,
No, I was on a cocktail of antidepressants and a stimulant for years. But that is interesting about what antipsychotics do.
Fiachra,
I complained to a former sleep doc about listing my sleep issue, including sleep apnea, as a psychiatric diagnosis, and her response was that the medical records software program gave her no choice but to designate it that way. And on other medical history forms, I have seen sleep issues listed under the psychiatric category. It galls me big time.
I will never be able to prove it but I feel that being on psych meds long term destroyed my sleep cycle which lowered my immune system which caused lymphoma. Obviously, I am alive 🙂 but I don’t believe for a minute that people can’t die from lack of sleep since when that situation occurs, it destroys people’s health.
As far as online CBT-i, that seems to be the non-drug one size fits all solution. Not saying it doesn’t help people but unfortunately, sleep professionals seem to wrongly think it is the solution for all sleep problems when it isn’t.
And of course, if god forbid these poor folks develop diabetes, they will be given drugs for that.
Wow Uprising, as one who feels being on psych meds destroyed my life, I feel your remarks are extremely unfair. If my comment is pure speculation, why is this headline on this blog and other FB lists that are critical of psychiatry?
People such as the LV shooter can be evil and capable of committing atrocities without being on psych meds. He definitely did not sound like a nice guy. So maybe I feel blaming psych meds is letting an evil person off the hook, especially one who went to the lengths he did to kill all those people.
If we start automatically blaming psych meds on every mass shooting without carefully analyzing whether that is accurate or not, then I fear the folks who have a legitimate case about meds affecting their actions, will not be listened to. Not everyone can afford to have Peter Breggin testify for them, right?
There is no doubt in my mind that meds can cause people to commit crimes who might not have done so otherwise. But I don’t think this is the case with this shooter due to the very elaborate planning and the fact that he didn’t seem to be a very nice guy. If the meds had any effect, perhaps they pushed him to do what he had always planned on doing with his mass shootings.
I also think we have to very careful about blaming every mass shooting on meds as by doing that, we’re no better than the mental health professionals who think psych meds are harmless.
I totally support people’s rights to chose psych meds as long as they are making a fully informed choice. Unfortunately, that rarely happens with any med that is prescribed.
My former psychiatrist was very well-intentioned and caring. But the issue is meds were prescribed that destroyed my life and caused permanent damage. Going on psych meds was the worst decision I made in my life.
Oldhead,
As disgusted as I am with the comment by Stevie, I don’t think it should be reported to moderators since he didn’t attack anyone. We don’t want to become like pro drug sites that delete posts they don’t like.
Instead, show him why his comment is totally off base as Bradford and Paris did. That is more powerful in my opinion than deleting unwelcome comments.
Totally agree mik. Readers should be warned ahead of time when links to articles are subscription only.
Not to sound like a broken record but I highly recommend the Surviving Antidepressants site for support regarding tapering off of many psych meds, and not just antidepressants. It is not beholden to any commercial interest.
It is not just psychiatry who pathologizes medical conditions as regular doctors do it also. The problem is widespread across conventional medicine.
What do we do to stop this from happening or can we?
Sorry for this OT post but I am really angry about the situation.
Many years ago, I worked in special ed and noticed that many students were wrongly diagnosed with autism. As a result, I question the claim that for the kids that taking the screen away allegedly help, really had an accurate diagnosis.
And before anyone flames me for doubting the validity of autism, I don’t. I am friends with many people on the autistic spectrum and definitely understand the issues. I also have similar type issues.
Anyway, I will stop here since Daniel has done a great job in summarizing the issues. By the way, I find it ironic that if biological psychiatry had posted an article like this, everyone would be all over it. But yet, when a non psychiatrist like Marilyn does, it is accepted at face value without critical analysis.
On a positive note, last year, my cholesterol was very high. But my PCP did not automatically jump to wanting to prescribe meds.
He said one data piece was telling him I needed a statin while another said that due to my less than then average chance of getting a heart attack (excellent cholesterol ratios), I did not need one. So he left it up to me and obviously, you all know the route I chose.
I feel lucky to have him.
AddictionMyth,
Why is it so hard for you to understand that even though you have had a great experience with Ativan, that many people have gone through hell with Benzos, including this woman who chose to die by assisted suicide?
I am not sure where you are getting the information that pressures need to be constantly adjusted upward on the pap machine. Many people have been on the same settings for years with a well controlled AHI.
Regarding Stasha Gominak and vitamin D and sleep apnea, I found her videos very interesting. But she acknowledged she had not done any clinical trials to prove her theories that the right levels will cure it.
Obviously, everyone’s level should be as optimized as possible. But don’t depend on it curing sleep apnea for now.
Wow Julie, I never said you were responsible for my friend’s death. My point was that just because you have been poisoned by psych drugs doesn’t mean you can’t have sleep apnea. I was using her as a dramatic example.
How is the cpap machine more addictive than wearing glasses?
And where is your proof that apnea is over diagnosed since it can only be done through objective scoring measures? It is not like being diagnosed by a psychiatrist who uses BS criteria to diagnose a fake illness.
It is true that some people on psych meds do develop apnea that goes away once they are off the drugs. But that needs to be confirmed by a sleep study.
Julie, please be very careful about discouraging people from getting tested for sleep apnea. I had drug damage from long-term use of the meds and still have sleep apnea.
A long term friend who was on antipsychotics for years tragically died on Sunday. She also had sleep apnea and apparently didn’t always use her machine. Of course, there could have been many causes of her death but I am sure not using the machine didn’t help.
Yes, the sleep medicine industry is big business but the testing is legitimate. A sleep center found to be falsely scoring apneas/hypopneas would be quickly exposed and put out of business quickly. Unlike with psychiatry diagnosis’s, the sleep apnea diagnosis is made on objective data that has been established according to the American Academy of Sleep Medicine
I just lost a close 63 year old friend who has been on antipsychotics for years. I always feared this would happen because it caused various health issues. Lieberman and all the psychiatry drug zealots can go to hell.
Great post Elsie. You precisely stated my feelings. Having a PhD has nothing to with writing an excellent post as you just did.
Thank you.
Great points Cat that I hadn’t considered about the benzos! Thank you for posting them.
You and I were already in agreement regarding the prescription of pain pills.
Thanks for the reminder HB and I apologize for using it in my response to Jeff. I am assuming your post was addressed to him but I still wish I hadn’t used the word.
Jeff,
Being diagnosed with cancer, I was hoping to get a prescription for medical marijuana because it seems it multitasks as far as dealing with symptoms. My bleeping state doesn’t allow it which greatly angers me. And by the way, the state legislature is controlled by Republicans so this is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue.
Jeff,
As one of the few people on this site who feels there has been an unfair crusade against people on pain medications, I mostly agree with your post.
However, I do need you to clarify this statement:
“”Some people can’t use benzo’s because they become addicted, but you can’t write a blanket law based on the minority of people who abuse their medications and are drug addicts. “”
If you are talking about people who took benzos, many folks take them as prescribed and still become addicted and have a horrible time getting off the meds. They were not given fully informed consent and that is what the above bill is about.
I am so sorry about your situation. After experiencing pain from a dental extraction and not taking my meds quickly enough, I couldn’t imagine what it must be like like to live with it 24 hours a day.
“”I was once a “grateful consumer,” too. “”
OMG Uprising, I was also as I continued to decline. My mother could see this clearly and begged me to get off of the medications. I thought she was clueless about mental health issues. Sigh!
Steve,
I should have waited for you to respond but I was so angry, I had to say something. 🙂 As always, great post.
“”Most clients experience a sense of relief, they relish the “powerlessness” to which you refer.”
And you are basing that on what? How many people did you talk to? And how many people expressed a negative opinion about their hospitalization?
Or did you just discount that as symptoms of mental illness like most mental health professionals do?
“”From ABC News: According to the Transport Workers’ Union, one in five truck drivers report having experienced mental health issues due to the economic pressures and dangerousness of the industry.””
How the f–k is this a mental health when they are reacting normally to an abnormal situation? And why does MIA continue to publish articles like this?
National Psychiatric Radio strikes again. And this exert from the article says everything.
“”Whenever I see something that looks and smells and walks like an ad, I look at who’s paying. Much to my surprise and chagrin, I found that even NPR takes funding from drug companies. (Their list of supporters includes the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America.)””
“”One of the signs “They’re sleeping too much or too little.”
This is a joke right? Tell me this is a joke.””
Sadly, it is not a joke. The issue of depression disgustingly comes up frequently regarding sleep issues. Easier to blame that than to search for the real cause.
Oldhead, that is an insane comment. The co-worker was not getting better which was due to having torn meniscus.
Too bad someone else I know whose ankle was permanently damaged by a chiropractor didn’t have the same judgment. Thank to her going to this quack, she now has to take “evil meds” for pain.
Julie,
Regarding your situation, it sounded definitely like you don’t have sleep apnea. But you keep making the claims it is due to weight and when someone does that, I have to correct the person even if someone may think that is too overbearing.
Also, if someone has an anatomical throat structure that contributes to their sleep apnea, changing the pillow position is not going to solve the problem. And just because someone doesn’t snore does not mean they don’t have sleep apnea.
I haven’t seen the statistics but many people who lose weight still have sleep apnea probably due to their anatomical structure. So obviously, losing weight is a good thing but don’t expect it to cure your apnea.
JC,
As I mentioned before, would you consider being dependent on eyeglasses and hearing aids bad? What about someone who needs a wheelchair? Why would using a cpap machine be different?
You might want to google batteries and pap therapy in case the electricity goes out.
Totally agree and sorry if I inferred otherwise.
LOL!
All jokes aside, I would hope that he would know when to suggest to clients that they need to see doctors for certain issues.
Several years ago, a former co-worker had great success with a chiropractor for back issues. But this professional knew her limits and told her she needed to see a doctor to get a knee evaluated. My co-worker had surgery on it and had a complete recovery.
Julie,
It is actually a myth that only overweight people have sleep apnea. I am thin and have it. You may very well not have it based on what you are saying but please don’t think that being thin prevents you from being a candidate for sleep apnea. It doesn’t and I would hate to discourage thin people on this board from getting an evaluation for sleep apnea if they thought they needed one.
As far as the machine being addicting, hmm, is wearing glasses addictive? What about wearing hearing aids?
Ah, “bad sleep hygiene”, the boilerplate response for blaming the patient for their sleep issues. On a related note, a former sleep doctor thought that sleep restriction therapy was the answer to my problems.
I responded by asking how that was going to happen if I fell asleep standing up against a wall trying to stay awake. She had no response.
I hear your frustrations in dealing with sleep docs and the lung docs and am sorry you are experiencing that.
JanCarol,
Where are you getting the information that people need higher pressures the longer they are on pap therapy? Many people on the apnea boards have slept with one continuous pressure through the years and haven’t had to change anything.
To make sure your husband’s therapy is completely optimized, he might want to download sleepyhead software which is free.
By the way, I would be very careful about raising the pressure without looking at data as that could cause central sleep apneas which you definitely don’t want.
What is wrong with this model if it is improving his life? Just because it is a conventional medical treatment doesn’t mean it is evil particularly since it doesn’t involve a drug.
Oldhead,
It is not overdiagnosed because there is data recorded under strict criteria for every time you have an apnea or a hypopnea. The reason why you may think it is overdiagnosed is that most people who are sent to a sleep center to be tested for sleep apnea do end up with the diagnosis. But again, there is recorded data that provides proof.
No, apnea is not a psychological issue although as I mentioned before, it can turn into one if not treated such as causing depression. It can also cause anxiety because if you are gasping for breath with, of course, you are going to be anxious. But once treated, that usually goes away.
Your right, the body does want to live and will start breathing again. But constantly doing that will destroy a person’s quality of sleep.
Oldhead,
As someone with sleep apnea, I have to respectfully disagree that sleep apnea is a bogus diagnosis. See this link:
The only thing they are wrong about is your O2 level doesn’t have to seriously drop to have sleep apnea.
And you do know that many people who turn out to have sleep apnea are misdiagnosed with the depression, right? If you stop breathing several times when you are sleeping, your quality of sleep is going to suck leading to being depressed.
Untreated apnea can also cause many other conditions like vehicle motor accidents. Would you want your loved one or you to be the victim of a driver with untreated apnea?
The skepticism you and Julie have is understandable though regarding many sleep doctors caring more about making a quick buck vs. helping their patients adjust to pap therapy. It doesn’t mean the diagnosis isn’t legitimate but the practices are pretty disgraceful.
Many people have found help on the apnea boards optimizing their therapy and no longer rely on their doctors. I am sure that doesn’t surprise you.
Finally, just you know, I have had a home study and two full-scale ones and they all came up with the diagnosis of moderate apnea. Pretty good odds this isn’t bogus.
Thanks, I will take a look.
Dan,
They aren’t going to change as they have shown by their actions. SD has written a great column but we have to face reality.
Actually Julie, I do sleep but at the wrong times and it ends up very fragmented. My sleeping pattern resembles irregular sleep wake disorder although it isn’t quite the same thing.
Instead of one block of sleep time, I have several. The hours of sleep are normal but the patterns are definitely not.
Can you tell me more about your sleep issues? I am very curious.
Hmm, I have never had any problem getting a direct appointment with a sleep doc. Unfortunately, the ones I have seen haven’t been helpful but that is another discussion.
How do you encounter a shrink when trying to make an appointment with sleep specialist? Again, I am curious.
Thanks AntiP,
Regarding sleep, it is not an issue of not sleeping. I have mysterious narcoleptic like sleep issues that I have been unable to resolve in spite of trying everything under the sun. Seeing a sleep doc out of my area in a few weeks who hopefully can help.
I feel like I am not getting any type of restorative sleep on my bipap machine. I feel this is a crucial part of the problem that needs to be resolved because without good sleep, healing can’t take place.
I am working on eliminating all sugar. I still have a weakness for low fat hot chocolate but use coconut oil in it to maintain some type of ketogenic effect. Otherwise, I don’t eat any carbs.
Thanks for the examine.com site as that is very informative.
Unfortunately, I am unable to read books for various reasons but I did go to the doctorwithin website and found it very interesting. So thanks for mentioning it.
Thanks FD.
I find your statement about many psych survivors getting cancer interesting. I will never be able to prove anything but I feel being on psych meds long caused mysterious sleep issues that never gave me a feeling of restorative sleep. That couldn’t have helped my immune system. So I do feel there was an indirect correlation but again, who knows?
AntiP,
As one who has unfortunately recently received the “C” diagnosis, I greatly appreciate this post. Even though I normally have good BS radar detectors, I still know I need to be extremely cautious during an extremely vulnerable time.
So I thank you for writing this and I thank Oldhead for his post about the cancer care center ads.
Hi five Stephen for the guts you showed confronting that assistant CEO. Reading your post really made my day.
I would love it if RW could also comment on the studies that Dr. Goel mentions. But I do understand if he can’t do it since he is a very busy person.
Dr. Goel,
What about listening to patients regarding their treatment?
Fiachra,
I am so sorry about your horrific experiences with neuroleptics.
Regarding doctors accepting the fact that psych meds cause horrific side effects, heck, alot of them can’t accept the fact that nonpsych meds do. It is like they take it personally if their treatment doesn’t work and causes harm. Easier to blame the patient instead of empathizing with their situation.
Exactly HB. If the authors are so sure their products work, why not offer at least a 30-day money back guarantee with no questions asked? The product would not have to be returned.
Richard,
Unfortunately, you are right on target. Sadly, I am not surprised as I feel the authors have exhibited this behavior with their previous blog entries.
Thank you for trying to pinpoint the important issues that need to be discussed.
Marie,
I was one of those folks who swore these drugs were helping as they were destroying my life. So I completely agree with all your points.
And JanCarol, thank you for your great analysis of EmpowerPlus. Speaking of individual supplement plans, I need at least 2200IU of D to feel somewhat decent. I probably need more but am having an issue of tolerance.
This particular supplement only has 384IU of D which for most people would be a horribly deficient amount. Of course, folks could supplement with D but for the price they charge, I would expect it to have alot more of the vitamin in it.
Can someone please explain why an article on sleep by a big time pro drug psychiatrist is on this site? Sorry, I am a little miffed because I feel being on psych meds long term destroyed my sleep cycle big time.
Agree with everyone else who has skepticism about the product. If you look at the list of individual ingredients, you will find that that the percentages of the most common ones are alot less than what you can find in an average multivitamin. Charging $79.98 is big time robbery.
Go to http://survivingantidepressants.org/. When you become a member, there is a benzo forum you can join to get support for tapering the chlordiazepoxide. And you can also get support for tapering the Sertraline.
Marion,
Thank you for what you are doing. I feel I was definitely harmed by being on psych meds long term and feel they completely destroyed my sleep cycle. Unfortunately, I will never be able to prove it but that is what I truly believe.
Please excuse my cursing but no shit, Sherlock. Really, a study was needed to determine this? Sheesh!
Wow Dr. Rodrigues,
You sound like the conventional doctors who think their treatments never cause any harm. So if one your patients ends up complaining about a problem, you just blow them off and say it can’t happen? Wow!
What happened to that person I mentioned is real and she has suffered a permanent injury. That doesn’t mind I think all chiropractors are bad as I had a former co-worker who greatly benefitted from one. And obviously, people on this site have also.
But this attitude of thinking that all alternative remedies are harmless is just as bad as doctors who think depression is responsible for everything known to human kind.
AA
Stephen,
On a related note, this big local healthcare system keeps sending advertisements for expensive testing for strokes and related issues. So one day, I asked if it had ever occurred to them to promote screening for sleep apnea since studies have shown that the condition can lead to strokes. And if people were treated, it would be alot cheaper.
It was like I was speaking a foreign language. Unfortunately, I didn’t follow up with the name of a person I was given for some reason.
You have been exonerated. 🙂
Actually FD, if Candidate X goes on a low carb, high fat diet for his type 2 diabetes, he may not need insulin.
I know someone whose baby was born with haemophilia who will be royally screwed if he loses his Obama Care Coverage. Please explain how your advice would be applicable to his situation. And by the way, he and his wife eat a great diet that is strictly organic in case you wanted to claim their lifestyle had something to do with his condition.
There are also people who do everything right and still get sick. A perfect example are skinny type 2 diabetics who keep their blood sugar under control for years thanks to diet but still find it isn’t enough.
People with type 1 diabetes can greatly lessen their need for insulin with a high fat, low carb diet. See, http://www.lowcarbrn.com. But unfortunately, they still need it and if they didn’t have insurance, they would be up shits creek with the skyrocketing causes of insulin.
Suzanne, I understand your anger towards “conventional” medicine due to your father being killed. But is it really fair to make broad generalizations about people and their health that you would resent if the tables were reversed?
Suzanne,
If my medical situation requires surgery or expensive tests, having Obamacare will be a big time life saver. I understand where you are coming from regarding your father but for people like me who are in similar situations, I would be up shits creek without it.
I am actually more scared of losing my coverage or seeing it turn into something alot worse vs. the possibility of experiencing the worst possible outcome of my situation.
Thanks Suzanne.
You make some great points about true capitalism. How do you see that working regarding hospitals, particularly since costs are so high?
My mother got to start the blood pressure med “fun” earlier in her life. So she had time to benefit from her reactions. Of course, I am being facetious which is sad.
Oldhead,
I thought the question was important because it seems that anyone who goes into a hospital who can’t advocate for themselves is vulnerable. I saw how that could happen when I was hospitalised after surgery in 2015.
I am not sure what you mean about hospital care sucking under capitalism. All health care whether it be mainstream or alternative is practiced under it.
The issue is that many conventional doctors think that drugs are the answer to everything and are incapable of thinking outside the box. The horrendous nightmare with Suzanne’s father started with a blood pressure med because of that attitude.
Several years ago, when my mother was alive, she picked up a C-difficule infection and kept getting antibiotics that weren’t helping. No one thought to do some serious analysis of the situation a forward thinking infection disease specialist added probiotics to her regime. She finally recovered.
Suzanne,
When my mother was alive, every time she had an adverse reaction to a med, she would add it to a list which got to be so huge, it scared the sh-t out of doctors in hospitals. I have always felt that saved her big time from being over-drugged.
HB,
Wouldn’t the quality of care in the hospital usually be bad for anyone who can’t advocate for themselves or doesn’t have a family member to intercede? Have there been studies done about who is more vulnerable?
HB,
I totally agree with you that Single Payer is the best option which unfortunately, is never going to see the light of day. But having Obama Care is better than not having any insurance at all.
Well, saying the Government is conspiring with medicare to kill seniors is definitely a right wing talking point.
Fortunately, my medical issue turned out not to be a crisis and it looks like I can wait until Tuesday to see my PCP. But if I had needed emergency care, as I said previously, I would have been in big trouble without health insurance.
Oldhead,
Your right wing rhetoric is total bullshit and extremely harmful.
Right now, I have a medical issue that is going to require seeing a doctor today. Without Obamacare, I would be up shit’s creek. God help me and everyone else who depends on this insurance if it is taken away by the Republicans whose solution to health care is that people die off quickly.
Suzanne, Justice 4, and anyone else I missed in this thread who lost elderly parents to chemical rape, I am so sorry for what happened. Words absolutely fail me.
FD,
While I am glad you were helped by a chiropractor, I know someone whose ankle was permanently damaged by going to one. The same precautions still apply whether you go to conventional or alternative medical professionals.
Sa,
You nailed it precisely regarding Mickey regarding fighting for truth in psychiatry. Sadly, if I had had access to someone like him, I wouldn’t have wasted so many years of life taking useless psych meds.
I also greatly appreciate the fact how much Mickey cared about the patients he was serving and how he wanted to do right by them. He greatly rebelled at anything that forced him away from his values.
Abby, my deepest sympathy to you, your family, and all of Mickey’s loved ones for your loss. He will be greatly missed.
AA
Liz,
You sure you aren’t thinking of oral steroids? I haven’t seen anything that says steroid cream suppresses immune function.
On a related note, my PCP gave me some steroid cream for a rash on my leg which did absolutely nothing. Increasing my vitamin C dose got rid of it which was totally unexpected. 🙂
Elsie,
I definitely share your concerns about the alternative mental health movement. Pushing someone to take a “million” supplements seems no different than pushing meds.
But having said that, I know when I don’t take enough vitamin D, I feel more depressed than usual. However, taking the right amount isn’t going to going to magically make all my problems disappear.
I am also concerned that these authors promoted the Standard American diet of high carb, low fat that has not worked for many people, including folks with metabolic issues who have said this type of diet worsens their condition. They also don’t seem to realize that studies have shown that good fats like the ones Liz Sydney mentioned should not be avoided.
As an FYI, since many people develop metabolic issues from being on psych meds, eating grains (5–8 servings per day); and fruit (3 per day) would substantially spike blood sugar in alot of people even though it is considered to be “healthy” food. See http://www.lowcarbrn.com.
Since extreme blood sugar spikes can cause depression, I would urge anyone who is concerned about metabolic issues to buy a glucometer and testing strips and take extensive measurements to see what foods affect you.
There have been anecdotal reports that coconut oil or mct oil have helped. If I had a relative with Alzheimers, I would certainly give it a try since there aren’t any risks I am aware of. And it sure beats trying drugs that have proven to be useless.
Same here!
The problem is those of us who didn’t vote for him, which is the majority, are going to suffer big time.
AngryDad,
I have thought of that but I just don’t think there is much choice in the situation. It is the best way to get out notices that require very quick action.
Not exactly a relevant post for many people who belong to FB to oppose the nazi/fascist regime. Taking frequent breaks is still advisable but telling folks to stay away for a week is extremely unrealistic.
shaun,
Once again, you are missing the point about psychiatry being demonized. The difference is with other medical professions, concerns are usually treated seriously although sadly, there are exceptions.
But many people who complain to their psychiatrists about drug effects and other issues are treated as if all their complaints are due to mental illness. Many times, they increase the dose which makes things worse.
And god help the person with a psych med history who goes to regular doctors for treatment. Many of us have found that we had to lie to doctors about our psych med history to make sure we received optimal care. Unfortunately, that is getting harder to do with electronic medical records.
Thank you oldhead. Great reminder.
No, you’re not wrong that other drugs have side effects but you and other mental health professionals make the point to detract attention from the fact that psych drugs have some of the worst side effect profiles. I am glad you agree they are a problem.
Shaun,
A common tactic you and mental health professionals deliberately engage in is to detract from psych meds having side effects by claiming others do also.
Speaking for myself and no one else on this board, I have never doubted that people benefit from psych meds. I just think the percentage is significantly less than folks who have been harmed.
Shaun,
Please stick to the topic as we are talking about whether taking psych meds long term are responsible for the increased disability rate.
And thousands of people would say differently regarding their effectiveness and side effects. You don’t have a monopoly on the truth just because you are a mental health professional. In fact, I find that every condescending.
shaun f,
You are right, causation doesn’t equal correlation. But if this situation was occurring with any other medical issue, it would be investigated pronto. Unfortunately, every adverse effect regarding psych meds is always blown off. I am really getting tired of this BS and seeing people’s lives destroyed.
Funny you mentioned unhealthy diet since many people on psych meds have reported intense food cravings and the lack of motivation to engage in exercise. And of course, “lovely” antipsychotics like Zyprexa have cause diabetes.
AntiP,
I already have a sleep apnea diagnosis. Unfortunately, it isn’t curable with the exception of some folks who lose weight and get rid of it. But I am already thin. Wish it were.:)
No, I can’t guarantee I won’t have health troubles in 10 years taking sleep medications. But not sleeping will also lead to them. Kind of like picking gasoline or the fire.
Unfortunately, melatonin has not worked but thanks for the suggestion.
Oh, people definitely choose the easy way. But not always. And we have to remember that we don’t always know the whole story.
No, your experience with Haldol doesn’t sound silly. I will bet psych meds cause sleep apnea although again, I admit I don’t have proof. And to be honest, in my case, I feel there were other issues that also may have led to it, including family history.
AntiP,
Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately, I have some very complex sleep issues that need professional help.
I know in Ms. Steven’s book, she criticises that line of thinking and says no one is special. But that is arrogant in my opinion when she doesn’t know the situation as I also have had difficulty with my pap therapy for my sleep apnea.
That is why I am a nut about making sure people get diagnosed correctly with sleep apnea vs. being put on psych meds as I have a suspicion (can’t prove it) that being on psych meds causes an extreme hypersensitivity that makes tolerating a pap machine extremely difficult. Unfortunately, I found tolerating a dental device even worse.
It is very judgmental to say people are taking the easy way by going back to sleeping pills. My life has been hell with sleep issues and to be honest, if I had found a med that worked, I would be on it. Unfortunately, I have had a hard time finding anything that works, whether it is prescription or a supplement.
Dr. Wood,
As one who is going through horrific sleep issues thanks to being on psych meds long term and who knows alot of people in similar situations, you might want to consider setting up a practice to help folks like us who have these and other issues. I will bet there would be a huge demand for your services as long as you didn’t engage in price gouging which sadly, many alternative folks seem to do.
Kudos to you for realising psychiatry as it is currently practiced, is mostly a big time disaster. Good luck to you.
Thanks Alex, you did and I greatly appreciate that.
Michael,
You make some good points but your explanations wouldn’t cover kids who are misdiagnosed with ADHD due to other conditions like sleep apnea which leads back to this blog.
When Julia and Bonnie have done their studies, have participants been screened for medical conditions that could look like “ADHD” but aren’t? Sorry if this information was included and I missed it.
FYI!
https://www.hardynutritionals.com/videos/32-dr-julia-rucklidge-the-surprisingly-dramatic-role-of-nutrition-in-mental-health
https://www.hardynutritionals.com/products/28-daily-essential-nutrients
Cost per month – $43.32
Sheesh, is MIA on an anti-technology crusade? Obviously, anything is bad when done to an excess but to crucify it as the culprit for all of society’s ills seems quite extreme in my opinion.
I hardly text due to being very slow in typing on a cellphone:) so for me, the issue is emailing someone vs. speaking to them. Regarding one person about whom I want to discuss some issues with, I intend to call him when I am ready because I think he responds better by phone. But with another person whom I, fortunately, don’t have problems with right now, I think emailing her is better.
I just don’t think you can make generalizations regarding how to best communicate with people and I am disheartened that various MIA writers are trying to do this.
Of course, patients won’t know that there is an alternative to the diabetes drug merry go around.
https://lowcarbrn.wordpress.com/
SnowyRhodes,
Most people aren’t opposed to anyone having benzos or any other drug as long as there is fully informed consent. The issue is there usually isn’t. That is what this bill is about.
Steve,
Saying they have never seen these reactions in all years of practicing is standard procedure for most doctors and not just psychiatry. A lot easier to blame the patient when things go wrong.
I just posted the link to the relevant facebook groups I belong to warn people to be careful who may post about suicidal ideation. And for all you readers who think I am preventing people from accessing help, forcing people to be hospitalized against their will does not solve the problem and in fact, makes them more suicidal.
Hi Julie,
Hmm, I am wondering if people don’t want to scare folks into believing that psych meds cause permanent damage. That is a debate that constantly comes up in the psych withdrawal community.
Good luck with the light box. Unfortunately, it has not kept me awake during the day and too much use causes agitation.
That is great you don’t need a cpap machine. Unfortunately, I do as confirmed by a home and two full-scale studies.
Julie,
Thank you for precisely nailing the issues. It greatly made my day that someone like you understands what is going on.
I know what you mean about backing out of commitments. Fortunately, when I do it with a friend, she is very understanding.
I am not surprised at all that sleep centers don’t acknowledge damage by drugs. Heck, I have had sleep docs recommend drugs that were related to the ones that I feel destroyed my sleep system.
bcharris,
No, I was on a cocktail of antidepressants and a stimulant for years. But that is interesting about what antipsychotics do.
Fiachra,
I complained to a former sleep doc about listing my sleep issue, including sleep apnea, as a psychiatric diagnosis, and her response was that the medical records software program gave her no choice but to designate it that way. And on other medical history forms, I have seen sleep issues listed under the psychiatric category. It galls me big time.
I will never be able to prove it but I feel that being on psych meds long term destroyed my sleep cycle which lowered my immune system which caused lymphoma. Obviously, I am alive 🙂 but I don’t believe for a minute that people can’t die from lack of sleep since when that situation occurs, it destroys people’s health.
As far as online CBT-i, that seems to be the non-drug one size fits all solution. Not saying it doesn’t help people but unfortunately, sleep professionals seem to wrongly think it is the solution for all sleep problems when it isn’t.
And of course, if god forbid these poor folks develop diabetes, they will be given drugs for that.
Wow Uprising, as one who feels being on psych meds destroyed my life, I feel your remarks are extremely unfair. If my comment is pure speculation, why is this headline on this blog and other FB lists that are critical of psychiatry?
People such as the LV shooter can be evil and capable of committing atrocities without being on psych meds. He definitely did not sound like a nice guy. So maybe I feel blaming psych meds is letting an evil person off the hook, especially one who went to the lengths he did to kill all those people.
If we start automatically blaming psych meds on every mass shooting without carefully analyzing whether that is accurate or not, then I fear the folks who have a legitimate case about meds affecting their actions, will not be listened to. Not everyone can afford to have Peter Breggin testify for them, right?
There is no doubt in my mind that meds can cause people to commit crimes who might not have done so otherwise. But I don’t think this is the case with this shooter due to the very elaborate planning and the fact that he didn’t seem to be a very nice guy. If the meds had any effect, perhaps they pushed him to do what he had always planned on doing with his mass shootings.
I also think we have to very careful about blaming every mass shooting on meds as by doing that, we’re no better than the mental health professionals who think psych meds are harmless.
I totally support people’s rights to chose psych meds as long as they are making a fully informed choice. Unfortunately, that rarely happens with any med that is prescribed.
My former psychiatrist was very well-intentioned and caring. But the issue is meds were prescribed that destroyed my life and caused permanent damage. Going on psych meds was the worst decision I made in my life.
Oldhead,
As disgusted as I am with the comment by Stevie, I don’t think it should be reported to moderators since he didn’t attack anyone. We don’t want to become like pro drug sites that delete posts they don’t like.
Instead, show him why his comment is totally off base as Bradford and Paris did. That is more powerful in my opinion than deleting unwelcome comments.
Totally agree mik. Readers should be warned ahead of time when links to articles are subscription only.
Not to sound like a broken record but I highly recommend the Surviving Antidepressants site for support regarding tapering off of many psych meds, and not just antidepressants. It is not beholden to any commercial interest.
http://survivingantidepressants.org/
It is not just psychiatry who pathologizes medical conditions as regular doctors do it also. The problem is widespread across conventional medicine.
What do we do to stop this from happening or can we?
Sorry for this OT post but I am really angry about the situation.
Many years ago, I worked in special ed and noticed that many students were wrongly diagnosed with autism. As a result, I question the claim that for the kids that taking the screen away allegedly help, really had an accurate diagnosis.
And before anyone flames me for doubting the validity of autism, I don’t. I am friends with many people on the autistic spectrum and definitely understand the issues. I also have similar type issues.
Anyway, I will stop here since Daniel has done a great job in summarizing the issues. By the way, I find it ironic that if biological psychiatry had posted an article like this, everyone would be all over it. But yet, when a non psychiatrist like Marilyn does, it is accepted at face value without critical analysis.
JC,
On the statin note, http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/deadly-internet-driven-cult-drives-statin-denialism-says-clev-clinic-dr.
On a positive note, last year, my cholesterol was very high. But my PCP did not automatically jump to wanting to prescribe meds.
He said one data piece was telling him I needed a statin while another said that due to my less than then average chance of getting a heart attack (excellent cholesterol ratios), I did not need one. So he left it up to me and obviously, you all know the route I chose.
I feel lucky to have him.
AddictionMyth,
Why is it so hard for you to understand that even though you have had a great experience with Ativan, that many people have gone through hell with Benzos, including this woman who chose to die by assisted suicide?
https://www.benzoinfo.com/single-post/2017/06/04/An-Open-Letter-Ativan-Stole-My-Only-Remission-From-Terminal-Cancer
Jan Carol,
I am not sure where you are getting the information that pressures need to be constantly adjusted upward on the pap machine. Many people have been on the same settings for years with a well controlled AHI.
Regarding Stasha Gominak and vitamin D and sleep apnea, I found her videos very interesting. But she acknowledged she had not done any clinical trials to prove her theories that the right levels will cure it.
Obviously, everyone’s level should be as optimized as possible. But don’t depend on it curing sleep apnea for now.
Wow Julie, I never said you were responsible for my friend’s death. My point was that just because you have been poisoned by psych drugs doesn’t mean you can’t have sleep apnea. I was using her as a dramatic example.
How is the cpap machine more addictive than wearing glasses?
And where is your proof that apnea is over diagnosed since it can only be done through objective scoring measures? It is not like being diagnosed by a psychiatrist who uses BS criteria to diagnose a fake illness.
It is true that some people on psych meds do develop apnea that goes away once they are off the drugs. But that needs to be confirmed by a sleep study.
Julie, please be very careful about discouraging people from getting tested for sleep apnea. I had drug damage from long-term use of the meds and still have sleep apnea.
A long term friend who was on antipsychotics for years tragically died on Sunday. She also had sleep apnea and apparently didn’t always use her machine. Of course, there could have been many causes of her death but I am sure not using the machine didn’t help.
Yes, the sleep medicine industry is big business but the testing is legitimate. A sleep center found to be falsely scoring apneas/hypopneas would be quickly exposed and put out of business quickly. Unlike with psychiatry diagnosis’s, the sleep apnea diagnosis is made on objective data that has been established according to the American Academy of Sleep Medicine
I just lost a close 63 year old friend who has been on antipsychotics for years. I always feared this would happen because it caused various health issues. Lieberman and all the psychiatry drug zealots can go to hell.
Great post Elsie. You precisely stated my feelings. Having a PhD has nothing to with writing an excellent post as you just did.
Thank you.
Great points Cat that I hadn’t considered about the benzos! Thank you for posting them.
You and I were already in agreement regarding the prescription of pain pills.
Thanks for the reminder HB and I apologize for using it in my response to Jeff. I am assuming your post was addressed to him but I still wish I hadn’t used the word.
Jeff,
Being diagnosed with cancer, I was hoping to get a prescription for medical marijuana because it seems it multitasks as far as dealing with symptoms. My bleeping state doesn’t allow it which greatly angers me. And by the way, the state legislature is controlled by Republicans so this is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue.
Jeff,
As one of the few people on this site who feels there has been an unfair crusade against people on pain medications, I mostly agree with your post.
However, I do need you to clarify this statement:
“”Some people can’t use benzo’s because they become addicted, but you can’t write a blanket law based on the minority of people who abuse their medications and are drug addicts. “”
If you are talking about people who took benzos, many folks take them as prescribed and still become addicted and have a horrible time getting off the meds. They were not given fully informed consent and that is what the above bill is about.
I am so sorry about your situation. After experiencing pain from a dental extraction and not taking my meds quickly enough, I couldn’t imagine what it must be like like to live with it 24 hours a day.
“”I was once a “grateful consumer,” too. “”
OMG Uprising, I was also as I continued to decline. My mother could see this clearly and begged me to get off of the medications. I thought she was clueless about mental health issues. Sigh!
Steve,
I should have waited for you to respond but I was so angry, I had to say something. 🙂 As always, great post.
Dickson,
FYI!
https://www.madinamerica.com/2012/07/the-triumph-of-bad-science/
“”Most clients experience a sense of relief, they relish the “powerlessness” to which you refer.”
And you are basing that on what? How many people did you talk to? And how many people expressed a negative opinion about their hospitalization?
Or did you just discount that as symptoms of mental illness like most mental health professionals do?
“”From ABC News: According to the Transport Workers’ Union, one in five truck drivers report having experienced mental health issues due to the economic pressures and dangerousness of the industry.””
How the f–k is this a mental health when they are reacting normally to an abnormal situation? And why does MIA continue to publish articles like this?
National Psychiatric Radio strikes again. And this exert from the article says everything.
“”Whenever I see something that looks and smells and walks like an ad, I look at who’s paying. Much to my surprise and chagrin, I found that even NPR takes funding from drug companies. (Their list of supporters includes the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America.)””
“”One of the signs “They’re sleeping too much or too little.”
This is a joke right? Tell me this is a joke.””
Sadly, it is not a joke. The issue of depression disgustingly comes up frequently regarding sleep issues. Easier to blame that than to search for the real cause.
Oldhead, that is an insane comment. The co-worker was not getting better which was due to having torn meniscus.
Too bad someone else I know whose ankle was permanently damaged by a chiropractor didn’t have the same judgment. Thank to her going to this quack, she now has to take “evil meds” for pain.
Julie,
Regarding your situation, it sounded definitely like you don’t have sleep apnea. But you keep making the claims it is due to weight and when someone does that, I have to correct the person even if someone may think that is too overbearing.
Also, if someone has an anatomical throat structure that contributes to their sleep apnea, changing the pillow position is not going to solve the problem. And just because someone doesn’t snore does not mean they don’t have sleep apnea.
I haven’t seen the statistics but many people who lose weight still have sleep apnea probably due to their anatomical structure. So obviously, losing weight is a good thing but don’t expect it to cure your apnea.
JC,
As I mentioned before, would you consider being dependent on eyeglasses and hearing aids bad? What about someone who needs a wheelchair? Why would using a cpap machine be different?
You might want to google batteries and pap therapy in case the electricity goes out.
Totally agree and sorry if I inferred otherwise.
LOL!
All jokes aside, I would hope that he would know when to suggest to clients that they need to see doctors for certain issues.
Several years ago, a former co-worker had great success with a chiropractor for back issues. But this professional knew her limits and told her she needed to see a doctor to get a knee evaluated. My co-worker had surgery on it and had a complete recovery.
Julie,
It is actually a myth that only overweight people have sleep apnea. I am thin and have it. You may very well not have it based on what you are saying but please don’t think that being thin prevents you from being a candidate for sleep apnea. It doesn’t and I would hate to discourage thin people on this board from getting an evaluation for sleep apnea if they thought they needed one.
As far as the machine being addicting, hmm, is wearing glasses addictive? What about wearing hearing aids?
Ah, “bad sleep hygiene”, the boilerplate response for blaming the patient for their sleep issues. On a related note, a former sleep doctor thought that sleep restriction therapy was the answer to my problems.
I responded by asking how that was going to happen if I fell asleep standing up against a wall trying to stay awake. She had no response.
I hear your frustrations in dealing with sleep docs and the lung docs and am sorry you are experiencing that.
JanCarol,
Where are you getting the information that people need higher pressures the longer they are on pap therapy? Many people on the apnea boards have slept with one continuous pressure through the years and haven’t had to change anything.
To make sure your husband’s therapy is completely optimized, he might want to download sleepyhead software which is free.
https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead
Hopefully, he has a machine that is compatible with it.
If you have any questions, there are software experts on these boards that can help:
http://www.cpaptalk.com
http://www.apneaboard.com
By the way, I would be very careful about raising the pressure without looking at data as that could cause central sleep apneas which you definitely don’t want.
What is wrong with this model if it is improving his life? Just because it is a conventional medical treatment doesn’t mean it is evil particularly since it doesn’t involve a drug.
Oldhead,
It is not overdiagnosed because there is data recorded under strict criteria for every time you have an apnea or a hypopnea. The reason why you may think it is overdiagnosed is that most people who are sent to a sleep center to be tested for sleep apnea do end up with the diagnosis. But again, there is recorded data that provides proof.
No, apnea is not a psychological issue although as I mentioned before, it can turn into one if not treated such as causing depression. It can also cause anxiety because if you are gasping for breath with, of course, you are going to be anxious. But once treated, that usually goes away.
Your right, the body does want to live and will start breathing again. But constantly doing that will destroy a person’s quality of sleep.
Oldhead,
As someone with sleep apnea, I have to respectfully disagree that sleep apnea is a bogus diagnosis. See this link:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/sleep-apnea/basics/tests-diagnosis/con-20020286
The only thing they are wrong about is your O2 level doesn’t have to seriously drop to have sleep apnea.
And you do know that many people who turn out to have sleep apnea are misdiagnosed with the depression, right? If you stop breathing several times when you are sleeping, your quality of sleep is going to suck leading to being depressed.
Untreated apnea can also cause many other conditions like vehicle motor accidents. Would you want your loved one or you to be the victim of a driver with untreated apnea?
The skepticism you and Julie have is understandable though regarding many sleep doctors caring more about making a quick buck vs. helping their patients adjust to pap therapy. It doesn’t mean the diagnosis isn’t legitimate but the practices are pretty disgraceful.
Many people have found help on the apnea boards optimizing their therapy and no longer rely on their doctors. I am sure that doesn’t surprise you.
Finally, just you know, I have had a home study and two full-scale ones and they all came up with the diagnosis of moderate apnea. Pretty good odds this isn’t bogus.
Thanks, I will take a look.
Dan,
They aren’t going to change as they have shown by their actions. SD has written a great column but we have to face reality.
Actually Julie, I do sleep but at the wrong times and it ends up very fragmented. My sleeping pattern resembles irregular sleep wake disorder although it isn’t quite the same thing.
Instead of one block of sleep time, I have several. The hours of sleep are normal but the patterns are definitely not.
Can you tell me more about your sleep issues? I am very curious.
Hmm, I have never had any problem getting a direct appointment with a sleep doc. Unfortunately, the ones I have seen haven’t been helpful but that is another discussion.
How do you encounter a shrink when trying to make an appointment with sleep specialist? Again, I am curious.
Thanks AntiP,
Regarding sleep, it is not an issue of not sleeping. I have mysterious narcoleptic like sleep issues that I have been unable to resolve in spite of trying everything under the sun. Seeing a sleep doc out of my area in a few weeks who hopefully can help.
I feel like I am not getting any type of restorative sleep on my bipap machine. I feel this is a crucial part of the problem that needs to be resolved because without good sleep, healing can’t take place.
I am working on eliminating all sugar. I still have a weakness for low fat hot chocolate but use coconut oil in it to maintain some type of ketogenic effect. Otherwise, I don’t eat any carbs.
Thanks for the examine.com site as that is very informative.
Unfortunately, I am unable to read books for various reasons but I did go to the doctorwithin website and found it very interesting. So thanks for mentioning it.
Thanks FD.
I find your statement about many psych survivors getting cancer interesting. I will never be able to prove anything but I feel being on psych meds long caused mysterious sleep issues that never gave me a feeling of restorative sleep. That couldn’t have helped my immune system. So I do feel there was an indirect correlation but again, who knows?
AntiP,
As one who has unfortunately recently received the “C” diagnosis, I greatly appreciate this post. Even though I normally have good BS radar detectors, I still know I need to be extremely cautious during an extremely vulnerable time.
So I thank you for writing this and I thank Oldhead for his post about the cancer care center ads.
Hi five Stephen for the guts you showed confronting that assistant CEO. Reading your post really made my day.
I would love it if RW could also comment on the studies that Dr. Goel mentions. But I do understand if he can’t do it since he is a very busy person.
Dr. Goel,
What about listening to patients regarding their treatment?
Fiachra,
I am so sorry about your horrific experiences with neuroleptics.
Regarding doctors accepting the fact that psych meds cause horrific side effects, heck, alot of them can’t accept the fact that nonpsych meds do. It is like they take it personally if their treatment doesn’t work and causes harm. Easier to blame the patient instead of empathizing with their situation.
Exactly HB. If the authors are so sure their products work, why not offer at least a 30-day money back guarantee with no questions asked? The product would not have to be returned.
Richard,
Unfortunately, you are right on target. Sadly, I am not surprised as I feel the authors have exhibited this behavior with their previous blog entries.
Thank you for trying to pinpoint the important issues that need to be discussed.
Marie,
I was one of those folks who swore these drugs were helping as they were destroying my life. So I completely agree with all your points.
And JanCarol, thank you for your great analysis of EmpowerPlus. Speaking of individual supplement plans, I need at least 2200IU of D to feel somewhat decent. I probably need more but am having an issue of tolerance.
This particular supplement only has 384IU of D which for most people would be a horribly deficient amount. Of course, folks could supplement with D but for the price they charge, I would expect it to have alot more of the vitamin in it.
Can someone please explain why an article on sleep by a big time pro drug psychiatrist is on this site? Sorry, I am a little miffed because I feel being on psych meds long term destroyed my sleep cycle big time.
Agree with everyone else who has skepticism about the product. If you look at the list of individual ingredients, you will find that that the percentages of the most common ones are alot less than what you can find in an average multivitamin. Charging $79.98 is big time robbery.
https://store.truehope.com//skin/frontend/rwd/truehope.mobile/media/empowerplus-tablet-ingredients.pdf
Go to http://survivingantidepressants.org/. When you become a member, there is a benzo forum you can join to get support for tapering the chlordiazepoxide. And you can also get support for tapering the Sertraline.
Marion,
Thank you for what you are doing. I feel I was definitely harmed by being on psych meds long term and feel they completely destroyed my sleep cycle. Unfortunately, I will never be able to prove it but that is what I truly believe.
Please excuse my cursing but no shit, Sherlock. Really, a study was needed to determine this? Sheesh!
Wow Dr. Rodrigues,
You sound like the conventional doctors who think their treatments never cause any harm. So if one your patients ends up complaining about a problem, you just blow them off and say it can’t happen? Wow!
What happened to that person I mentioned is real and she has suffered a permanent injury. That doesn’t mind I think all chiropractors are bad as I had a former co-worker who greatly benefitted from one. And obviously, people on this site have also.
But this attitude of thinking that all alternative remedies are harmless is just as bad as doctors who think depression is responsible for everything known to human kind.
AA
Stephen,
On a related note, this big local healthcare system keeps sending advertisements for expensive testing for strokes and related issues. So one day, I asked if it had ever occurred to them to promote screening for sleep apnea since studies have shown that the condition can lead to strokes. And if people were treated, it would be alot cheaper.
It was like I was speaking a foreign language. Unfortunately, I didn’t follow up with the name of a person I was given for some reason.
You have been exonerated. 🙂
Actually FD, if Candidate X goes on a low carb, high fat diet for his type 2 diabetes, he may not need insulin.
https://lowcarbrn.wordpress.com/diabetes/low-carb-for-diabetes/
Suzanne,
I know someone whose baby was born with haemophilia who will be royally screwed if he loses his Obama Care Coverage. Please explain how your advice would be applicable to his situation. And by the way, he and his wife eat a great diet that is strictly organic in case you wanted to claim their lifestyle had something to do with his condition.
There are also people who do everything right and still get sick. A perfect example are skinny type 2 diabetics who keep their blood sugar under control for years thanks to diet but still find it isn’t enough.
People with type 1 diabetes can greatly lessen their need for insulin with a high fat, low carb diet. See, http://www.lowcarbrn.com. But unfortunately, they still need it and if they didn’t have insurance, they would be up shits creek with the skyrocketing causes of insulin.
Suzanne, I understand your anger towards “conventional” medicine due to your father being killed. But is it really fair to make broad generalizations about people and their health that you would resent if the tables were reversed?
Suzanne,
If my medical situation requires surgery or expensive tests, having Obamacare will be a big time life saver. I understand where you are coming from regarding your father but for people like me who are in similar situations, I would be up shits creek without it.
I am actually more scared of losing my coverage or seeing it turn into something alot worse vs. the possibility of experiencing the worst possible outcome of my situation.
Thanks Suzanne.
You make some great points about true capitalism. How do you see that working regarding hospitals, particularly since costs are so high?
My mother got to start the blood pressure med “fun” earlier in her life. So she had time to benefit from her reactions. Of course, I am being facetious which is sad.
Oldhead,
I thought the question was important because it seems that anyone who goes into a hospital who can’t advocate for themselves is vulnerable. I saw how that could happen when I was hospitalised after surgery in 2015.
I am not sure what you mean about hospital care sucking under capitalism. All health care whether it be mainstream or alternative is practiced under it.
The issue is that many conventional doctors think that drugs are the answer to everything and are incapable of thinking outside the box. The horrendous nightmare with Suzanne’s father started with a blood pressure med because of that attitude.
Several years ago, when my mother was alive, she picked up a C-difficule infection and kept getting antibiotics that weren’t helping. No one thought to do some serious analysis of the situation a forward thinking infection disease specialist added probiotics to her regime. She finally recovered.
Suzanne,
When my mother was alive, every time she had an adverse reaction to a med, she would add it to a list which got to be so huge, it scared the sh-t out of doctors in hospitals. I have always felt that saved her big time from being over-drugged.
HB,
Wouldn’t the quality of care in the hospital usually be bad for anyone who can’t advocate for themselves or doesn’t have a family member to intercede? Have there been studies done about who is more vulnerable?
HB,
I totally agree with you that Single Payer is the best option which unfortunately, is never going to see the light of day. But having Obama Care is better than not having any insurance at all.
Well, saying the Government is conspiring with medicare to kill seniors is definitely a right wing talking point.
Fortunately, my medical issue turned out not to be a crisis and it looks like I can wait until Tuesday to see my PCP. But if I had needed emergency care, as I said previously, I would have been in big trouble without health insurance.
Oldhead,
Your right wing rhetoric is total bullshit and extremely harmful.
Right now, I have a medical issue that is going to require seeing a doctor today. Without Obamacare, I would be up shit’s creek. God help me and everyone else who depends on this insurance if it is taken away by the Republicans whose solution to health care is that people die off quickly.
Suzanne, Justice 4, and anyone else I missed in this thread who lost elderly parents to chemical rape, I am so sorry for what happened. Words absolutely fail me.
FD,
While I am glad you were helped by a chiropractor, I know someone whose ankle was permanently damaged by going to one. The same precautions still apply whether you go to conventional or alternative medical professionals.
Sa,
You nailed it precisely regarding Mickey regarding fighting for truth in psychiatry. Sadly, if I had had access to someone like him, I wouldn’t have wasted so many years of life taking useless psych meds.
I also greatly appreciate the fact how much Mickey cared about the patients he was serving and how he wanted to do right by them. He greatly rebelled at anything that forced him away from his values.
Abby, my deepest sympathy to you, your family, and all of Mickey’s loved ones for your loss. He will be greatly missed.
AA
Liz,
You sure you aren’t thinking of oral steroids? I haven’t seen anything that says steroid cream suppresses immune function.
On a related note, my PCP gave me some steroid cream for a rash on my leg which did absolutely nothing. Increasing my vitamin C dose got rid of it which was totally unexpected. 🙂
Elsie,
I definitely share your concerns about the alternative mental health movement. Pushing someone to take a “million” supplements seems no different than pushing meds.
But having said that, I know when I don’t take enough vitamin D, I feel more depressed than usual. However, taking the right amount isn’t going to going to magically make all my problems disappear.
I am also concerned that these authors promoted the Standard American diet of high carb, low fat that has not worked for many people, including folks with metabolic issues who have said this type of diet worsens their condition. They also don’t seem to realize that studies have shown that good fats like the ones Liz Sydney mentioned should not be avoided.
As an FYI, since many people develop metabolic issues from being on psych meds, eating grains (5–8 servings per day); and fruit (3 per day) would substantially spike blood sugar in alot of people even though it is considered to be “healthy” food. See http://www.lowcarbrn.com.
Since extreme blood sugar spikes can cause depression, I would urge anyone who is concerned about metabolic issues to buy a glucometer and testing strips and take extensive measurements to see what foods affect you.
There have been anecdotal reports that coconut oil or mct oil have helped. If I had a relative with Alzheimers, I would certainly give it a try since there aren’t any risks I am aware of. And it sure beats trying drugs that have proven to be useless.
Same here!
The problem is those of us who didn’t vote for him, which is the majority, are going to suffer big time.
AngryDad,
I have thought of that but I just don’t think there is much choice in the situation. It is the best way to get out notices that require very quick action.
Not exactly a relevant post for many people who belong to FB to oppose the nazi/fascist regime. Taking frequent breaks is still advisable but telling folks to stay away for a week is extremely unrealistic.
shaun,
Once again, you are missing the point about psychiatry being demonized. The difference is with other medical professions, concerns are usually treated seriously although sadly, there are exceptions.
But many people who complain to their psychiatrists about drug effects and other issues are treated as if all their complaints are due to mental illness. Many times, they increase the dose which makes things worse.
And god help the person with a psych med history who goes to regular doctors for treatment. Many of us have found that we had to lie to doctors about our psych med history to make sure we received optimal care. Unfortunately, that is getting harder to do with electronic medical records.
Thank you oldhead. Great reminder.
No, you’re not wrong that other drugs have side effects but you and other mental health professionals make the point to detract attention from the fact that psych drugs have some of the worst side effect profiles. I am glad you agree they are a problem.
Shaun,
A common tactic you and mental health professionals deliberately engage in is to detract from psych meds having side effects by claiming others do also.
Speaking for myself and no one else on this board, I have never doubted that people benefit from psych meds. I just think the percentage is significantly less than folks who have been harmed.
Shaun,
Please stick to the topic as we are talking about whether taking psych meds long term are responsible for the increased disability rate.
And thousands of people would say differently regarding their effectiveness and side effects. You don’t have a monopoly on the truth just because you are a mental health professional. In fact, I find that every condescending.
shaun f,
You are right, causation doesn’t equal correlation. But if this situation was occurring with any other medical issue, it would be investigated pronto. Unfortunately, every adverse effect regarding psych meds is always blown off. I am really getting tired of this BS and seeing people’s lives destroyed.
Funny you mentioned unhealthy diet since many people on psych meds have reported intense food cravings and the lack of motivation to engage in exercise. And of course, “lovely” antipsychotics like Zyprexa have cause diabetes.
AntiP,
I already have a sleep apnea diagnosis. Unfortunately, it isn’t curable with the exception of some folks who lose weight and get rid of it. But I am already thin. Wish it were.:)
No, I can’t guarantee I won’t have health troubles in 10 years taking sleep medications. But not sleeping will also lead to them. Kind of like picking gasoline or the fire.
Unfortunately, melatonin has not worked but thanks for the suggestion.
Oh, people definitely choose the easy way. But not always. And we have to remember that we don’t always know the whole story.
No, your experience with Haldol doesn’t sound silly. I will bet psych meds cause sleep apnea although again, I admit I don’t have proof. And to be honest, in my case, I feel there were other issues that also may have led to it, including family history.
AntiP,
Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately, I have some very complex sleep issues that need professional help.
I know in Ms. Steven’s book, she criticises that line of thinking and says no one is special. But that is arrogant in my opinion when she doesn’t know the situation as I also have had difficulty with my pap therapy for my sleep apnea.
That is why I am a nut about making sure people get diagnosed correctly with sleep apnea vs. being put on psych meds as I have a suspicion (can’t prove it) that being on psych meds causes an extreme hypersensitivity that makes tolerating a pap machine extremely difficult. Unfortunately, I found tolerating a dental device even worse.
It is very judgmental to say people are taking the easy way by going back to sleeping pills. My life has been hell with sleep issues and to be honest, if I had found a med that worked, I would be on it. Unfortunately, I have had a hard time finding anything that works, whether it is prescription or a supplement.
Dr. Wood,
As one who is going through horrific sleep issues thanks to being on psych meds long term and who knows alot of people in similar situations, you might want to consider setting up a practice to help folks like us who have these and other issues. I will bet there would be a huge demand for your services as long as you didn’t engage in price gouging which sadly, many alternative folks seem to do.
Kudos to you for realising psychiatry as it is currently practiced, is mostly a big time disaster. Good luck to you.
Thanks Alex, you did and I greatly appreciate that.