Sunday, June 20, 2021

Comments by Willoweed

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  • Right, like you hundreds of millions of people have been harmed by psychiatric “treatments”. Mortality data shows these drugs kill over half a million people a year. Far less will be harmed by this new drug. It can feel like a spit in the face how few care about the more massive scale destruction. However, reporting how the FDA is approving a drug for dementia when the drug corporation couldn’t even produce evidence the drug helps at all is a good thing in sending psychiatry to the graveyard with blood letting, and mercury treatments. It is harder to use appeal to authority argument of “Psych drugs are approved by the FDA so they are safe and effective” when people remember how the FDA approved a drug witliterally zero evidence of providing any benefit.

  • With certain poly-pharmaceutical combos I think there is reason to believe that it may be easier to withdrawal from two drugs at once compared to one at a time. Psychiatry often will put someone on a second drug in order to address symptoms caused by the first. A sedating drug with a stimulant or SRI. One drug causes “upper” effects while the other causes “downer” effects. This can even take the form of taking a drug that increases dopamine with a drug that blocks dopamine. These drug combos counter act each other and maybe tapering both at once will reduce some withdrawal effects. Tapering a stimulant may make people tired. Tapering the sedative at the same time may reduce this tired feeling.

    Another strategy that may help for those on drug combos is to switch which drug is tapered each time. For example someone taking a SRI and a stimulant would first reduce the SRI and then 2 weeks later reduce the stimulant. 2 weeks after, they reduce the SRI again and repeat. The person will still be in withdrawal for the same amount of time but their body will have more time to adjust to the dosage change of each individual drug before a new dosage change of that drug.

    I have no scientific evidence to suggest if these ideas help; only anecdotal accounts which may be flukes that are wrong.

  • All psychiatric studies claiming the people they label have biological defects use people addicted to psychiatric drugs. People labeled with schizophrenia were said to have a brain disease because they had brain damage, when in fact the drugs caused it. Most if not all traits associated with the “mentally ill” are things the drugs cause or increase. Including, recreational drug use, violence, brain damage, unemployment, shorter lifespans, agitation/an inability to sit still, drooling, cognitive impairment, physical gait, obesity, and so on.

    These traits caused by the drugs are then used to argue the people must have a biological problem. Technically this is true because the drugs are causing biological problems.

  • Comments on some of your listed points.

    1. An aspect of this is that you get drugs regardless of what you tell about your life. Why tell a psychiatrist why you feel miserable when they will invalidate you and tell you it is because your “brain is ill” and give you a drug either way.

    2. Blaming peoples brains also means any social, or environmental factors are less likely to be improved. Why change a social factor when the problem is an “ill brain”.

    4-5. Some response when telling people who take these drug or are suffering withdrawal that they are physically addicted is something along the line of “stop insulting me by calling my a drug addict.” I wonder how many people went to a psychiatrists just to get some stimulants or benzos because the drugs cause a high.

    6-7. It is interesting how childhood ADHD symptoms are a problem for the adults who then convince themselves and the child that drugging the child to help the adults manage the kid is “health”.

    9. This ties in with the other ones. Being labeled as “mentally ill” means people are unlikely to take you seriously, listen or consider what you say. This causes topics about your “mental illness” to be the major way to obtain social support, validation, or to be listened to.

    10. I think it would also be important to note that psychiatric drugs cause disability, cognitive and physical impairment, and unemployment. It is not just that it allows people to get disability benefits but psychiatry harms people with disability causing drugs.

    11. Psychiatry manipulates people to make them feel powerless, and hopeless. They use this to then get people dependent on psychiatry. They go so far as to get people physically addicted to drugs.

  • Does anyone disagree that psychiatrists making people feeling guilty and personaly responsible for the negative effects of psychiatrics drugs is a form of gaslighting and victim blaming?

    “Here is this drug (which I make my money from) it is safe and effective.”

    Later when the person gains weight because the drug slows down their metabolism, causes sedation, and increases cravings for unhealthy food.

    “You need to make a few $200 appointments to help facilitate a change in your eating and exercise habits because they are causing health problems.”

  • Here are a list of some of the side effects of opioid antagonists which is added to Zyprexa for this “new” drug.

    -Trouble sleeping
    -Headaches, stomach and/or muscle pain
    -Restlessness (Who can spell akinthsia?)
    -Liver damage
    -Reduced socialization

    In the FDA report the new drug had worse scores on the negative and positive symptoms. The lower dosage of drugs had better scores compared to higher doses.
    The people taking the “new” drug also ended up with worse blood glucose measurements.

  • In an early Chapter, Peter talked about how psychiatrists say people are delusional and psychotic if they mention that the drugs are deadly.

    Psychiatry is by definition lying and conspiring in order to get people addicted to drugs that long term only cause harm.

    Psychiatry forcibly drugs and jails people. Monitors them. Conspires to spread propaganda and attack anyone pointing out the science.

    The paranoia symptom that is considers a “brain illness” is in practice psychiatry silencing people who dissent from their dogma.

    “You feeling you are being poisoned, watched and people are harming you is a sign of “mental illness”. Take this “antipsychotic” injection now.” -Psychiatry.

    The person who at some level recognizes what psychiatry is, gets drugs that impair cognitive abilities and cause brain damage. Perfect way to silence them. It was the same strategy the USSR used for as they put it “the dissenters who were really just mentally ill”.

  • Psychiatry can jail and even drug you if you say or appear in the “wrong way”. They aren’t there to have a social relationship. They are there to decide how you need to change to fit social expectations. It is a criminal interrogation. One where you don’t get a trial. The evidence allowed is what the people making money from drugging and jailing you say.

    I remember a survey about how maybe 50% of people had thought about suicide. It seems a likely possibility that many psych “patients” are people who didn’t decide that silence is survival. Little good comes from sharing intimate details to someone in the psych cult. Massive harm is the typical result.

  • People like Peter are dangerous. If people are told the truth about the effects of these drugs the liars selling them might be sued, shunned, and become the social lepers they turn others into with their stigmatizing labels and drugs.

    The truth is dangerous for those benefiting from the lies. But the truth can’t set us free while the liars have power. That is why a major aspect of psychiatry is to take away its victims credibility and power.

  • If they admit that what they falsely label as an “illness” doesn’t have any biological explanation it would lead them to understand they aren’t practicing medicine. That they’ve been selling stigmatizing and pessimism causing falsehood. Few people will admit they helped cause hundreds of millions of people to become physically addicted to deadly drugs based on self serving lies.

    Their social, egotistical, and financial status are more important than the people they pretend caring about.

  • A benefit in a study over placebo can occur due to any number of flaws in the study.

    All psych drugs cause a wide range of physical effects such as dry mouth, stomach issues, headaches, sedation, stimulation and so on. Because of this they cause an active placebo effect. Irving Kirsch in his review reported on research finding that 78% of patients and 88% of psychiatrists knew who was taking the drugs. Psych studies use subjective measurements done by the psychiatrist (who has a conflict of interest) to determine benefits.

    Almost every single Psych study utilizes a withdrawal design where they take people currently on the drugs and withdrawal half to create the mislabeled “placebo” group. Psych studies pretend harm caused by the drugs are benefits. Looking at the Ham D depression scale this becomes obvious because someone gaining weight, or believing they are “mentally ill”, or having the same health symptoms but reporting them less to medical professionals have a larger “benefit” than the entire reported drug benefit in flawed short term corporate studies.

    According to Psychiatry AD’s help the person by making them fatter, lowering their self esteem, and getting them to shut up about their complaints.

  • The long term research shows that psych drugs do cause the positive and negative traits marked as schizophrenic. Your comments show one evidence based way the drugs cause them.

    What I am tired of isn’t you posting the same science over and over. I am tired of society ignoring it because they don’t want to face the monster they created. You’re one of the rare humans doing good and actually working to solve the problem.

  • It’s not even just that few care about the damage done by psychiatry. It’s that they blame and attack the victims with it. Having family members tell you to take more psych drugs, even when you’ve told them the harm they’ve caused you, and shown them the long term science, is beyond my desire to describe. “Do I need to call to get you psych-hospitalized?” Is a death/torture threat, even if the family member refuses to see it for what it is.

  • The “anti-stigma” campaigns do reduce stigma which can be parsed from your, Rebel’s and Patrick Hahn’s comments. These campaigns reduce stigma for the people pressuring and forcing people to take psych drugs. Stigma is reduced for the family members and friends who interact with the “ill, dangerous, crazy people, who need to be drugged.”

    The most insidious aspect of this is that people wrapped and reformed in the psychiatry complex have internalized this. One common response when I show people taking psych drugs the research showing the drugs only have negative long term outcomes is a variation of “you’re stigmatizing me.”

    They’ve been bullied if not forced/coerced to take these drugs. They started taking the drugs in part because they were stigmatized and bullied to (examples include coerced hospitalizations, the phrases “seek help” “they’re off their meds”, schools, medical offices etc). Any attempt to quit them causes stigma. I know this first hand. My drug withdrawal was easy. I was the most productive, social, happy and healthy I had been in years. Even then the harassment because I stopped taking the drugs was hell. Many of those taking psych drugs transfer the stigma, harassment and discrimination caused by psychiatry onto the anti-psychiatry messenger.

  • Psychological therapy may help some people. The problem is that the research finds it mostly has clinically insignificant benefits. In a meta analysis that tried to include unpublished studies, the effect size for psychological therapies benefits for depression was .39(1). For reference Irving Kirsch found the effect side for short term “antidepressant” use in heavily biased/flawed corporate trials was .3(2). The improvement recorded for psychological therapy for depression comes out to around 2 points in the Ham D scale. For reference saying you are mentally ill is a 2 points improve the. Having the same emotions and problems but telling them to the psychiatrist less is also 2 point improvement.

    Therapy according to the research is pretty much pointless. If people wanted to spend their time and money doing it that would be one thing, but our society pressures people into it. Our society even forces some people to do it. If someone doesn’t do therapy or stops they get stigmatized for it. A common response if you tell someone therapy didn’t help is a version of “therapy can’t fail, only you can”

    A study found that giving people the money therapy costs improved their emotional well being more than therapy.

    There are several reasons to believe the studies are bias towards showing therapy is helpful.
    1) There are likely more unpublished studies not included
    2) You can’t unblind talk therapy. This accompanied with subjective outcome measures means the studies contain an active placebo effect.
    3) Harms are not measured or looked for.

    (2) Mad in America’s “the people’s case against antidepressants” has this meta analysis in the beginning.

  • I agree For most social connection is very important for emotional well being. Psychiatry and talk therapy in many ways make social connection harder.

    Being professionally marked as having a defective brain, where you are considered so dangerous you need less rights than criminals makes people want to avoid you. People believing you lack insight because your brain is broken means they are less likely to listen, consider your opinion/feelings, or view you as an intellectually valid human being.

    Being told to “seek help” and “take drugs” by friends and family prevents connection from happening in the first place. It also discourages future connection because doing so can result in being called ill, and being told you’re the problem. It is also not safe to talk because you can be forcibly drugged and detained based on your thought.

    The drugs also reduce socialization. The main purpose of stimulants is to make kids stop socializing and playing and get them “working” In the Ham D depression scale someone who stops sharing and telling the psych about their negative mood, even if the mood is the same, has a larger benefit than what the most pro-drug flawed studies claim the short term benefits of the drugs are. Neuroleptics cause massive sedation and impairment.

  • Why talk about how life is so shitty it’s making you miserable when the “expert” will simply tell you it is all the fault of your brain and give you drugs?

    It is less painful to avoid being gaslit and victim blamed and not share the environmental factors bothering you. You’ll get the same drugs either way.

    I think a lot of psychs don’t recognize that they’ve conditioned people not to tell them their life problems. This then reinforced the myth that it is caused by a faulty brain because the environmental factors are actively avoided.

  • I remember reading an article about a psych resident suggesting a suicidal homeless women who had been repeatedly raped take some SSRI’s to help her depression. Psych has conditioned everyone to blame environmental factors on defective brains that need a chemical fix. No wonder suicides are increasing. The drugs won’t fix the actual problem and when the problem occurs again the person feels even more hopeless, shamed and defeated.

    The reason men have higher suicidal rates is because men use guns more for their suicide attempts. Women are actually more likely to attempt suicide but their methods are less likely to cause death.

    Somehow men using more deadly methods of suicide has been blamed on men not talking enough.

  • The results of talking about your own suicidal thoughts are dependent on the culture and person you are revealing them to. In our modern society the most likely result is you are pressured/coerced to take deadly drugs that worsen outcomes and you get stigmatized as mentally ill and dangerous.
    The most common response is being told do get addicted to drugs followed by being treated differently.

    Talking about suicide isn’t helpful when doing so is likely to cause the people around you to make your life worse. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. You reveal suicidal thoughts and people’s behavior causes more stress and emotional suffering.

  • Many people who’ve gotten ahold of their psych records note how they are filled with misinformation, and insulting diatribes. I don’t know how common that is but I wonder if an effective way to get people to stop holding their psych as a well intentioned informative expert is to have them get ahold of their records. Don’t even have to phrase it as anti-psych can just say “seeing your entire records can help facilitate improving your mental health.l

  • The subjective opinion on how kids should behave and feel while adults info dump them 7 hours a day can’t be under or over diagnosed. It’s purely an opinionated label. It would be like over diagnosing how many people have brown hair because blond hair is “superior”

    If a parent told their kid every day they were were mentally inferior and forced fed them meth they’d go to jail, unless of course a psychiatrist also tells the kid he/she is inferior and needs to be addicted to meth. Maybe some day society will recognize that telling young kids they are mentally defective, with diseased brains based on adults wanting the kids to sit down and shut up while being lectured 7 hours a day is harmful to everyone.

  • I didn’t know that asking for a class of water after being electrocuted meant “mental illness” was improved. If someone were to piss in someone’s mouth they’d probably also ask for a glass of water afterwards. Psych denies all harms, or even pretends harms are helpful (brain damage, memory loss, sedation, cognitive impairment, weight gain) while they insist that someone asking for water after being electrocuted means electrocution helps people.

  • Nutrition surveys and food consumption data suggests that around 10% of Americans eat the minimum recommended amount of fruits and vegetables per day. It’s abnormal to have a healthy lifestyle in most economically advanced nations. Though it’s probably also normal to vastly overestimated how healthy ones lifestyle is. I think one trait that might be more prevalent amongst people who get a psych label is that they for what ever reason don’t hide and deny their distress as much as others. (I remember seeing a survey where most of people had contemplated suicide).

    In Europe where there is less poverty, economic insecurity, and work weeks are shorter, people live longer, eat healthier, and spend more time soothing the soul with joyful activities compared to America. One reason for this is because America has accepted more of the psych dogma that people’s problems are caused by an inherent defect instead of being caused by environmental and social factors. Eating healthy is more likely to be blamed as a personal problem of “control” in America and therefore the idea that people would eat healthier if they had a better environment isn’t adequately considered. Europeans eat healthier because their society recognizes that in order to take care of your health you need the time and social support to do so.

  • The studies don’t even measure symptoms but simply a subjective “relapse”. Once some one relapses because of withdrawal they are relapsed for good in the study. If a person relapses a week after abrupt withdrawal but from years .5-2 have half the symptoms as those on the drugs who don’t relapse they are still considered worse off. Imagine if we used that research method for other things. “Alcohol addiction saves lives. Budweiser studies finds those in placebo get seizures, anxiety, and die at higher rates.” “Tobacco is a safe and effective treatment for depression and lethargy with no negative health effects because Marlboro study finds placebo is worse.” Placebo of course being a group addicted and abruptly withdrawn from the drug.

  • In depression scales used to measure the effectiveness of these drugs complaining about physical symptoms is marked as “mental illness”. It doesn’t matter if you have those physical symptoms complaint less is a sign the drug “works”. Not Mentioning you feel sad is also marked as less “depressed” even if your level of sadness is the same.

    The long term data shows these drugs make people’s mental health worse. I’d say it’s not that the drugs make people not care; it’s that the drugs in effect silence them from verbalizing their suffering.

  • When I think of medical care I think of police coming to the door and hauling people off against their will. Nothing makes people feel happy, safe and have better lives than being given less rights than a criminal and being forcibly jailed and drugged. Being jailed for several weeks or months is a sure bet to improve your economic and social life. The bills from the ordeal will help you pull yourself up from your bootstraps. You’ll be less afraid and more social because at any time police can come haul you off because psych said you are biologically dangerous. The beatings improve morale. /snark

  • These studies suffer the same flaws as other psych studies.

    Since 1/4 of people get prescribed the drugs in 3 months that means some of the people in the non drug group in these studies likely had been on the drugs before and are suffering withdrawal.

    The drugs also cause many physical effects that are noticeable. Over 80% of people in these trials know who is taking the drugs because of this and therefore an active placebo effect occurs.

    Opioid corporations claimed their drugs were safe and effective by using biased/flawed short term studies with the same flaws as psych studies. Low and behold when long term studies and data was done opioids are not safe or effective for chronic pain. Just like how long term studies of psych drugs find the drugs worsen outcomes.

  • “Not blindly accepting our dogma is stigmatizing for the people we insult by calling them mentally ill/defective.” -Psychiatry

    “Don’t listen to these people because they are mentally ill, and therefore crazy, lack insight and dangerous .” -Psychiatry later showing cognitive dissonance is alive and well.

    “You are mentally ill for life and can’t recover without buying our drugs.” -Psych

    “We don’t want to scare people from buying our drugs by telling them the effects of the drugs and that they do not really have an illness. Scaring people is wrong.” -Psychiatry recognizing that scaring people is bad only if it means less social status and profits for psych.

  • I had the same experience. I secretly quit the drugs because they did not help. After a while of dong great I told everyone it was because I quit the drugs. The response was to pressure and harass me to start taking the drugs. Suddenly random things I was doing was assumed to be because I was “ill” and needed drugs. I got yelled at in public because my diet was too healthy. Here I thought I had accomplished something by eating healthy but my family saw it as a sign of “illness” that needed to be controlled. The response to me getting upset for being harassed was that I needed to start taking the drugs again.
    It’s made me form the opinion that telling people you quit the drugs is not a mentally safe thing to do. Even if you show them the research showing the drugs have no long term benefits there is a good chance the will deny it. Not believing psychatry is according to psychiatry a symptom of mental illness and psychosis. That is flat out what their scales state.

  • It is insidious. They lie that their victims are ill and then give them drugs that cause illnesses. The drug induced illnesses are then blamed on the victim. When I’m with people taking psych drugs who complain about their physical or mental health it elicits this weird emotion. I know the cause and fix for their diabetes, heart disease, cognitive decline, and inability to be happy and so on but they refuse to even look at the evidence and research. Psychiatry told them they can only listen to psychiatry and that they are too “mentally defective” to understand research.

  • The psych students would be high status members of the cult. If they don’t recognize the professional does nothing but hurt people before spreading the cult they’ve already lied and caused massive harm. Most don’t have the courage to admit it so they go on in denial pretending they are saviors. This is pretty easy since almost all of society agrees with the cult, and lavishes high status members with wealth and power. Speaking out against cult dogma results in retaliation which is further deterrence.

    It also resembles how gangs initiate new members by having them commit a crime. Psych does this with family and friends by telling them to coerce people on drugs. A family member who has done this has to either stay in denial or admit they hurt their loved ones.

    People directly harmed by psych have the same pressures. They can accept they were conned into hurting themselves and then suffer withdrawal, further stigmatization and harassment for quitting the cult or they can maintain denial.

  • The irony of the justified mocking of Trump calling every piece of information he doesn’t like “fake” and everyone reporting it a vast variety of insults is that those “debate” strategies are the go to for society.

    When Trump said if we don’t test for Covid it won’t exists, he got rightfully mocked. When psychiatry does the same thing it is “medicine” and anyone pointing it out is “causing stigma” and being “anti-science”. Hell even when negative effects are tested for and found with psych drug use, pointing them out is “shaming people” and being “dangerous”

  • The Harrow study finds negative outcomes on all measures for those using the drugs (those with mild “illness” who took drugs end up with 50% worse outcomes than those with severe “illness”)
    Moshers 1978 study found in the long term those taking drugs spent more time in the hospital, had more “symptoms” less employment and poorer outcomes.
    Carpenters study found those taking the drugs were discharged later, and had a 45% relapse rate at 1 year compared to 35% of those not taking drugs.
    Nancy Sholer’s 2016 review claims these 3 studies do not find negative outcomes from neuroleptic drugs. The conclusion of this review was that there was not evidence that neuroleptic had long term benefits or harms.

    The Wunderink long term withdrawal study finds that at 7 years long term recovery rates are over 2 times higher for those withdrawn from the drugs. I have seen multiple meta analysises claim this study shows neuroleptics improve outcomes. This is done by cherry picking the abrupt withdrawal data and only using that.

    Flat out lying in front of everyone’s faces.

  • Margaret Singer has several main characteristics of cult indoctrination.
    -Keep members ignorant about what is going on with aid from a behavioral change program designed to get them to commit more to the cult. First it’s therapy then 1 drug then 2 then 3, then a “hospitalization”.
    -A sense of powerlessness is installed (essentially the result of all psych labels and proclamations that people are ill and sick for life)
    -dependency is formed and the environment is controlled (for psych this extends to literal drug addiction, and “hospitalized camps”)
    -Manipulation and a system of rewards and punishments that change people’s social identity.
    -Create a closed system of thinking impervious to criticism, logic or evidence. Dissent from the cult is punished and discouraged (patients are slandered as “lacking insight” forcibly drugged/jailed, psychiatrists get fired if they dissent)
    -The cult members blindly follow leaders who have inherently higher status than the other members.

    If this were a psychiatry “diagnosis” 4 out of 6 of these traits are needed to be diagnosed as a cult. The treatment would be large amounts of cognitive impairing deadly sedating drugs. Forced if need be.

  • It is possible to tally the yearly deaths caused by psych drugs.
    Neuroleptics increase all cause mortality by over 250%.
    Serotonin drugs increase it by 54%
    Benzodiazepine type drugs increase it by 63% (9% more than those who were put on Serotonin drugs).
    Stimulants are as deadly as the above drug.
    A rough estimate using the increased death rates with the age of users finds psych drugs kill around 500,000 people a year in America alone.

  • The PANSS scale used by psychiatry can result in someone scoring psychotic if they score a 5 out of 7 for their grandiose, hostile, and suspicions disagreement with psychiatry. This scoring is actually slightly higher than the mean score for those labeled with “schizophrenia.” Get the lowest rating possible for delusions, conceptual disorganization and hallucinations and you can still be scored as more psychotic than the typical person labeled with “schizophrenia”.

  • It is also destructive socially. Being professionally labeled as a dangerous, insight lacking disease with a defective brain who needs less rights than normal people isn’t conductive to a decent social life. Any complaint someone with these labels makes can be blamed on their chemical imbalance. They lack insight so what they say isn’t viewed for what it is but rather as something a defective brain would say. Any “bizarre” behavior such as walking outside at night can be construed as suicidal and result in the cops coming to lock you up.

  • Taking the increased death rate from psych drugs and the age of users we can say psychiatry kills 500,000 people in America each year. The average psychiatrist kills more people than the largest serial killers. Psychiatrists have delusions of grandeur, show paranoia that every one is dangerous, hallucinate demon like “chemical imbalances” , maintain their delusions regardless of being proven wrong, and show bizarre behaviors such as forcibly drugging kids with meth. Clearly they have the brain disease called schizophrenia and need a double dose of neuroleptics. Of course that is according to the standards of psychiatry, which are garbage.

  • Because people who mention that the drugs have no long term benefits and only cause harm are stigmatized, fired, censored, and/or slandered. There is a price that is paid by those speaking truth to power. Few people will take that price, especially when they’ve been initiated into the group, or are using defective brains as scapegoats.
    How many people have told or pressured someone they cared about to “to seek help” or “take drugs”? In order for that group to admit psychiatry causes only harm they’d have to recognize the harm they did.
    When the options are scapegoat defective brains, or be retaliated against for admitting psychiatry with your aid committed horrid atrocities, people will usually pick the former. They will defend it mindlessly and abusively because avoiding guilt is a powerful motivator.

  • Meth addiction is good for you if a 5 minute subjective questionnaire done by someone selling meth to you finds your answers prove you have a brain disease.

    Responsible meth dealers help their patients fill this quiz out before selling them drugs. Moral meth dealers tell their customers the drugs are safe. If their customers quit they remind them the withdrawal means the drugs are effective.

    Meth dealers who are praised by society sell their meth patients some sedatives when sleep troubles, anxiety or irritability occur. They are sure to say that the deadly sedatives are good because the patient has a brain disease.

  • One “anti-stigma” campaign showed us what the real goal was. It had people wear shirts with labels. One persons shirt had “bi-polar” her sisters shirt had “sister” The goal is to objectivity those labeled with “mental illness” to reduce stigma for everyone else. One result of this is to make people feel better if they force and push the objectified on drugs.

    In psychiatry forums saying someone is mentally ill is helping them. Saying they are not defective and don’t need deadly drugs is stigmatizing them. In psychiatry stigma means preventing “the mentally ill” from accepting they are less than every one else.

  • A victim who is viewed by everyone else as too stupid to know anything, who therefore can’t be believed, who is an easy scapegoat for everyone, who has had their power removed, is the best kind of victim for the bully. A silenced person who won’t be listened to because they are “mentally ill” has less risk for the bully.
    Psychiatry insults their “patients” as mentally defective, stupid and lacking insight because it makes it harder for the victims of psychiatry to fight back and get justice. It makes it easier for a society to pressure and force people to get psychiatric services. Dehumanizing people makes it easier to force treatment on them because society believes they need it for “their own good”.

  • Psychosis like all psychiatric terms and labels are mostly subjective and depend what is assumed as “correct”. For example in the PANSS psychosis scale someone can be labeled psychotic for disagreeing with psychiatry and being too hostile towards the psychiatrists. Hostility to people proclaiming you get less rights than criminals because you are stupid and mentally defective sounds like an expected response. Though I lack insight so what do I know?

    Back in the day slaves and racial minorities who didn’t agree they were inferior races were labeled as psychotic. Women who got upset about being treated as mules also got labeled as mentally ill. Regardless of intent, psychiatry silences people. It turns those silenced into easy targets for bullies and criminals. Society recognizes this truth considering a common arguing tactic is to tell someone they are off their drugs, and/or mentally ill.

  • “You lack insight and are too stupid to know what is good for you so we are going to give you brain damage and cause cognitive impairment.” -Psychiatry.

    “Lack insight” is a euphemism for “won’t blindly obey psychiatrists and pay them money.”

    In fact in psychiatries PANSS psychotic scale you can be labeled psychotic simply for being hostile enough in your disagreement with psychiatry. Anyone know the definition of a death cult?

  • In the HAM D depression and PANSS psychotic scales psychiatry uses to measure mental illness complaining about your health, or physical symptoms is a sign of mental illness. The solution of course is more psych drugs. If the SSRI gives you headaches/stomach problems/physical symptoms it means you are mentally ill and need more psych drugs. Also if someone is concerned about their health and goes out of their way to be healthy it is also a sign of mental illness.

    In the PANSS psychotic scale you can be labeled psychotic simply for disagreeing with psychiatry strongly enough with hostile tones in your disagreement.

  • According to this study electrocuting brains to induce brain damage increases suicide by 31%. If you want to see what “informed consent” in psychiatry looks like view the conclusions of this study where it ignores the data and claims ECT is no different on the measure of suicide than people not getting ECT. 2 plus doesn’t equal 5 but 131 equals 100 if you have the insight of psychiatry. This is why they don’t want patients to actually read the research in its whole.

  • A common quote goes, “it is not paranoia if they really are out to get you.” Almost all of those labeled as paranoid schizophrenics can one up that with, “it is not paranoia when they already got me and millions of others and almost no one cares.”
    Psychiatry forcibly jails people and then forcibly drugs them with disabling drugs that take 20 years off a lifespan. Drugs with effects occurring in about half of users that are described as torture. The Soviets in fact did torture people with the same drugs. Luckily for psychiatry anyone pointing this out can be insulted as “mentally ill” and ignored/drugged.

  • The most well known direct death associated with deaths of despair is opioid deaths.
    Opioids parallel psych drugs near perfectly.
    Opioid drug sellers lied and said the drugs were safe, effective, and non-addicting. None of those were true; long term studies show opioids do not improve pain and likely worsen pain. The drug manufactures coordinated with doctors to push and sell the drugs. Those who refused to get on board were said to be stigmatizing and hurting people with pain. Doctors salaries where linked to making sure they prescribed opioids for pain. Arguing with the science (short term studies designed by the drug sellers to make the drugs look good) resulted in getting insulted or worse.

    The pain was often blamed for negative effects opioids, and more drug prescriptions followed. When negative effects of the drugs were subtly admitted the resulted was another drug to instead of removing the causative agent. Those taken off the drugs went through withdrawal and either needed to go through loads of suffering or keeping taking the drugs falsely labeled as safe. The major difference between psych drugs and opioids is psych drugs don’t get people high with pleasure before addiction kicks in.
    It might be effective to bring up the similarities between opioids and psych drugs when trying to inform people.

  • Exactly.
    Here is some of what psychiatry measures to determine if their drugs improve depression.
    Each change bellow is a 2 point improvement
    gaining weight
    agreeing you are ill and defective
    fidgeting less with hands and hair
    Look irritable instead of apprehensive
    No longer occupied with health
    No longer has moderate complaints about physical symptoms

    The drugs in the most biased studies with half a dozen major flaws that make the drugs appear better record a 1.5 point improvement. The studies that release the weekly data show this improvement only occurs in the beginning of use. The withdrawal group (falsely labeled as placebo) has the same relapse rate in weeks 5-6 as the drug group.

  • The first Prozac trials gave people benzos to deal with the agitation, sleep troubles and anxiety caused by serotonin drugs. It’s now standard for psychiatry to give people drugs that increase serotonin followed by a neuroleptic which blocks dopamine and serotonin. It is exactly like taking cocaine to get up and opioids to get down.

    It also goes the other way as well. Give them neuroleptics followed by stimulants or serotonin drugs to address the effects of the first deadly drug. When the drugs cause akinithsia and TD you’ll get some more deadly dementia causing drugs with zero long term benefits.

    Tobacco should have went the psychiatry route. “People have tobacco deficiencies. Studies show tobacco users have biological differences and illness. We have 6 week studies showing tobacco is safe and improves energy, happiness, and productivity. When people with tobacco deficiency disease quit tobacco their symptoms come back and they suffer. Anyone saying otherwise is anti-science, shamming sick people, and being dangerous.”

  • “All good children” by Catherine Austen is another science fiction book with a story revolving around the wonders of drugging people “for their own good”

    The Plague Dogs by Richard Adams is a fiction about two dogs who escape a medical research lab. One of the dogs was subjected to a lobotomy type mutilation. The dogs in the book can be viewed as representing how society treats those who are labeled as mentally ill.

    One flew over the cuckoos nest is good book which needs no explanation.

  • I was unable to find the full text of the study, however I found the publication summary.
    People whose brains were electrocuted had 31% higher suicide rates. This increase was labeled “statistically insignificant” despite the study having a large sample size. Apparently if a psych treatment increases suicides by 31% all you have to do is call it insignificant and the harm disappears*.

    The authors allude to comparing Electrocuting brains with other psych “treatments”, if true ECT in this study could find it increase suicides by 31% on top of the 200% plus increase caused by psych drugs. It would also be good to see specifically how they adjusted the data based on whatever various factors they decided to adjust for.

    * The study says that the CI is .96-1.96. This essentially means there are probabilities that ECT changes suicide by -4% all the way through increasing it by 96%.

  • If you do have a mind of your own you’ll likely be stigmatized as “anti-science”, “lacking insight,” and “dangerous”. You’ll be pressured to go to psychiatry for “treatment.” When you complain about anything you won’t be taken seriously because you’re mentally ill and off your drugs so it is automatically your fault.

    What’s to be alone when I’m a disease?
    It’s no longer home if you set it aflame
    In the fire my brain gets the blame
    You act like I’m a game to control.

    Passed out again with wine on your face
    I ask to be treated as if I was human
    How could I be fine with a reply of no?
    I’m a ghost in death and in this place
    But I heard you blame the bottle on me

    Still with love that is ready to forgive
    For the muscles I can no longer control
    And the headaches exacting their toll
    Yet with wine you yell “take those pills”
    Since even my ghost you want to kill.

  • Facts and logic likely won’t get someone out of an opinion that facts and logic didn’t get them into.
    This especially applies when the facts and logic show the person has caused massive suffering and harm.

    Schools and parents should teach kids about logical fallacies. A major problem is that most discussions devolve into repeating the same logic fallacies over and over. But then adults wouldn’t be able to easily use those logical fallacies to control the kids.

    Psychiatry initiates family and people by getting them to coerce “mentally ill” people to take drugs and “seek help”. This is exactly what gangs do when they initiate new members by having them commit a crime. These initiated people can’t exit denial when they see facts and logic about how psychiatry causes only harm because they helped perpetuate psychiatry on others. It is either admit they got conned into poisoning and stigmatizing their loved ones, or flail with logical fallacies, and ooze self righteous anger at the messenger. Maybe an effective strategy is first addressing people’s guilt. How to do that is beyond me at the current moment though.

  • Anyone who actually practices “first do no harm” wouldn’t slap on a stigmatizing label that serves as a self fulfilling prophecy of doom.

    A major issue with forced “treatment”is that it causes all treatment to contain force. A patient that can be locked up and drugged against their will at any time does not have the autonomy and power to provide consent. If someone physically harms someone else to get them to do something and threatens to do it again unless that person abides by their dictations there is no consent if the harmed individual does what the abuser says in the future. This is especially true when the abuser is backed by the government because the victim has little to no recourse or ability to fight.
    The horror of forced treatment touches all because it makes all treatment coerced. How many people take psych drugs or go to therapy because they in part fear being forcibly hospitalized? One is too many, and there are many.

  • “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” -Jiddu krishnamurti

    @Steve M.
    It is common for groups to sit and do nothing when someone else is bullied. The authorities will often proclaim they don’t care who started it and will punish both people when the victim fights back. For whatever reasons many people blame the victim and identify toughness and righteousness with the perpetrator. The bully humiliates their victim and that humiliation makes the victim appear unlikable to others. In our society people’s circumstances are blamed on themselves. In another forum certain people would harass a certain commenter. When i pointed out this behavior other people would attack me for “stirring up shit and derailing the conversation.” I was eventually banned for calling out bullying.

    Abusive people gain their power by getting bystanders to identify with them, and to dislike the victims. Psychiatry utilizes the same strategy by proclaiming that it’s all the fault of “defective brains” that make people so dangerous they need less rights than criminals. A reason psychiatry flourishes is because it gives everyone involved a scapegoat. A scapegoat that appears unlikable because of the abuse constantly heaped on them.

  • The Soviets had a similar “mental health” system as our current American one. In the Soviet Union psychotic and delusional people who openly opposed the Soviet “Utopia” were fixed and treated with neuroleptic drugs. The American system is more subtle where those who don’t appear happy, productive and properly sociable under the American “utopia” are fixed and treated with the same drugs.

    Neoliberalism is influenced by the Protestant Prosperity gospel which started in Europe. The prosperity Gospel basically states that the rich are blessed by god and the suffering masses are sinners being punished by God.

  • It is a chicken and egg type situation. Psychiatry in part prevents society from solving issues such as poverty, pollution, discrimination and so on. It does this by labeling those who are suffering as “mentally ill”. The result is that poverty isn’t viewed as the problem, it is the impoverished people’s defective brains that needs “fixed”. A common comment on the topic of homelessness is that homeless people are “mentally ill”. What this comment does is transform the problem from a lack of housing to defective brains. A lack of housing is solved by providing housing; “mental illness” is “solved” with drugs and electrocutions of gray/white matter.

  • I can’t speak for anyone else but it may in part be a strategy in order to get people to consider the discussion and look at the evidence. The common response from people if you go and present science research showing psych drugs have no benefits is being bombarded with insults. People won’t even look at the evidence or consider entering a discussion unless you give enough lip service to their mass willful ignorance.

    I’m not sure this lip service is at all effective but I understand people utilizing it. I tried various forms of changing how I presented the science in order to get people to objectively look at it. I’m now of the opinion that it has little to do with how it’s presented and more to do with people’s inability to admit they are wrong and have caused harm.

  • When I first heard one of my friends committed suicide it was hard. Later I discovered the research on how every major psych drug more than doubles suicides, and how they cause akathisia which my friend had. I cried daily for two weeks, racked with guilt that I hadn’t discovered the research earlier and saved him.

    I proceeded to go around mental health forums posting the research as a form of catharsis. Many people were helped including myself but for the most part the responses were insults, lies and logical fallacies followed by censorship. Turns out being pro-science to most people is defined as ignoring the evidence and covering up with illogical assumptions. Many people also view it as stigmatizing if you do not tell people they are mentally defective. It is a brave new world, drugs, conditioning, biological classes and all.

  • But there isn’t evidence neuroleptics have even short term benefits for psychosis. Studies claim so do so by claiming withdrawal means the drugs are good, or that sedating and disabling someone is a “benefit”. Those who want to claim disabling and drugging some one into a coma like state is a good thing, need to be up front that their idea of a benefit is social control and silencing people.

  • It’s not that thinking is bad relative to feeling it is that essentially they are the same thing with different labels. There is little structural different between “I think this will cause harm” vrs “I feel this will cause harm” The major difference between the two is that “feeling” is considered less of an absolute truth. It is less likely to close the mind for this reason. Thinking contains all the biases that are present in feeling without the opened mindedness that comes from what is implied when something is labeled as a feeling.

    Labels have the power to direct the discussion. Psychiatry understands this power when they label their drugs and electrocutions as “evidence” or “science” based. They are pretending their motivated feelings are factual thoughts because doing so shuts down critical analysis, and further discussion. Labeling something as thinking over feeling does the same thing. It presumes it is objectively based and accurate. It is harder to discover the truth or correct an error when the false and inaccurate concept is attached to objectivity.

  • Anyone in the health field who says something negative about psychiatry is putting their money where their mouth is. People get fired for doing so. Peter Gøtzsche the author of the post/book chapter was fired from the Cochrane Institute because of it. He’s been slandered as a result of him pointing out that the science shows psychiatry only causes damage. He has spent almost a decade writing about the dangers and lack of benefits from psychiatry. I’m not sure what else he could do.

  • A major effect of Psychiatry is to blame the struggles of life, and societies atrocities on those struggling and their “defective brains”. Psychiatry hinders the ability to improve society, provide real support, and reduce poverty because it blames those things on their victims. Correcting the lies of psychiatry aids in improving everything else. It is stupid and infuriating but our society operates on authority. Mental health professionals have some of it when it comes to mental health. Therefore, I’d argue they are most effective correcting harmful lies in the area they have some authority in.

  • What we see as a bug others see as a feature. Besides selling drugs and giving psychiatrists the mirage of being real doctors, blaming “chemical imbalances” provides a scapegoat. One where those pointing out the fabrication of chemical imbalances can be waved off as “shamming genetically/mentally/biologically ill people.” It’s a brave new world where labeling someone as inherently defective to get them to take deadly addicting drugs is considered supporting them.

  • American conservatives throw around a phrase called “virtue signaling” Essentially it means doing something that doesn’t actually help but makes it appear you are being helpful and are a good person so you can assuage the guilt of not taking any substantial actions. That is what psych is about; allowing people to appear helpful so they won’t feel guilty. Allowing people to blame a mythical “chemical imbalance” so they don’t have to change horrible aspects of society. Allowing people to say “go get therapy” so they won’t feel bad about refusing to listen and provide social support.

  • Intelligence and education has several double edge sword aspects. The more “intelligent” someone is the easier it can be for them to come up with convincing lies and bullshit to support their original opinion. If their original opinion occurred because the “expert” educators who they paid $100,000 said so this will more likely to occur. It doesn’t feel good to realize 4-8 years of education and money was essentially just you buying a snake oil sales slot.

    Getting a high level of education can have the effect of increasing arrogance, particularly when that education is in a field that is hero worshiped such as the medical one. When a psychiatrist says someone lacks insight/is stupid for not agreeing with them a contributing factor to this response is their inflated ego. “How dare this loser question me!”

    Intelligence and education can have disastrous results if the person never learned how to spot and avoid logical fallacies and has replaced an open mind/modesty with a sense of hero like self importance/righteousness. Though malice is a factor as well. The problem with society today is that the most likely response if you show some one a bunch of research and facts that oppose their opinion will be logical fallacies, and unsupported claims for why the research can be completely ignored.

  • Turns out most people when confronted with the fact the drugs they lied and said were safe and effective caused permanent damage and daily pain prefer to keep lying and handing out those drugs. It is easier to do this if you insult anyone pointing it out and blindly claim your victims lack insight because their brains are ill. Their censorship, invective and crocodile self righteousness comes from the weakness of their position.

  • There’s good reason why people harmed by psychiatry tend to avoid doctors, and medical establishments. 1) Psych labels cause a large increase in medical errors for those labeled. 2) A “respected medical group” causes massive harm which is proved by the research and society doesn’t care. It is a standard defense strategy to become skeptical and distrusting, of those who not only ignore the suffering done to you but perpetuate it on others. 3) In psych physical, health and other complaints are considered signs of “mental illness.” For minor issues it might not be worth it to go tell them to a doctor who might proclaim they are because you’re mentally ill and should take some psych drugs.

    You pointed out how disrespectful it is to not ask someone why they are upset and just assume they have a biological problem. I agree, however I think another scenario can be even more wrong. Patient: “I feel sad, fearful and can’t sleep because (insert any horrid thing occurring in life)”
    Doctor: “Oh, well you feel that way because your brain is defective. Here are some deadly addicting drugs to fix you.”
    I wonder if a lot of people do not share what is upsetting them because they don’t want to be further insulted and blamed for their emotional response to horrible shit. The major result either way will be a psych label, and drugs. This would also apply to sharing with family and friends.
    “Hey, mom/dad when you insults me it makes me unhappy.”
    “Son did you take your drugs? You know you lack insight and this is just your illness.”
    In practice one effect of psychiatry is to silence people. To stop them from complaining. Interestingly psych mental illness scales consider complaints to be a sigh of illness that needs to be eradicated with drugs. In the HAM depression scale someone no longer complaining is considered to have had a larger improvement then the total drug improvement in the most pro-drug biased short term studies. Flat out psych says that in effect silencing someone is a good thing.

  • In practice one effect of the false biological brain defective cause of mental illness is to remove blame from parents, the environment and society. Some of the most fanatic pro-psych people are parents precisely because psych tells them they aren’t at all to blame and instead it’s their child’s defective brain that is the problem. Then they pressure and force their kids to take the drugs because those in authority tell them they should. They blindly accept that their kids lack insight and therefore insist they keep taking the drugs.
    When they see that the long term research finds the drugs only make things worse they have two choices, denial and continuing course, or accepting that their questionable actions caused harm.

    It reminds me of how gangs initiate new members by having them commit a crime. It’s the sunk loss fallacy in action. In order to get out you have to confront, accept, and deal with the consequences of what you did. It’s much “easier” to deny it, and pretend you’re a self righteous victim of anti-psych science deniers shamming you. It is much easier to do that if you hurl insults at the messenger. It might be easier for people to reject psych if the blame can be transferred to the lying psychiatrists. If they can come to know that guilt doesn’t go away when it is denied. It only ends when it’s is dealt with and atoned for. Alas I’m not sure how to facilitate that.

  • Serotonin drugs do and can cause akathisia. Benzos in the short term mask akathisia by causing sedation, however in the long term they all cause akathisia. Akathisia can easily be mistook for anxiety. The “treatment” for anxiety includes benzos, or neuroleptics which cause and worsen akathisia in the long term. Turns out treating the effects of one deadly addicting drug with zero long term benefits in any study with another addicting deadly drug with zero long term benefits is a recipe for disaster.

  • First he took serotonin drugs, they didn’t actually help so he took benzos, they didn’t work so he took ketamine. When the first serotonin drug was approved the clinical trials also gave out benzos. This was done because serotonin drugs cause anxiety, agitation, irritability, and sleep problems. People mindlessly assume chemical altering drugs can’t have negative effects because those selling the drugs say so. The result is those effects are considered their illness and require more drugs. Those new drugs cause negative effects which are again assumed to be an illness that requires more drugs. Round and round the person goes until they are drugged to death, stop complaining, or decide to taper off the drugs. If they tell people they are quitting, withdrawal is falsely claimed to be their illness returning and they are pressured and sometimes forced to take the drugs.

    Another missed opportunity was Peterson not elaborating that his later problems where caused because he kept taking more deadly illness causing drugs to address the effects of the current deadly drugs he was addicted to.

  • How can one be completely included in society when society views you as mentally/biologically defective based on your suffering? Those labeled mentally defective are by definition separate from “normal” people. Racists assume blacks/minorities are genetically inferior just like psychiatry assumes those who suffer are. Can a black person be completely included amongst racists who fanatically believe the black person is inherently inferior? If not why would it differ for other groups claimed without evidence to be genetically inferior?

    Mentally ill labeled people can be jailed (hospitalized) and forcibly drugged without a trial, defense or the committing of a crime. Society has made them second class citizens with less rights than violent criminals. It is not surprising that people in that group aren’t included and struggle socially.

    According to psychiatry those with mental illness lack insight. Put more bluntly this means mentally ill people are too stupid to comprehend and know anything. They can’t even know if a chemically altering deadly brain damaging drug makes them feel worse or not. How does one have a meaningful relationship with someone who automatically assumes what you feel and say is wrong because a questionnaire resembling a vapid Facebook quiz finds you suffer?

    Social relationships are a two way street. Psychiatry convinces families and friends that they need to hide and avoid having meaningful discussion with mentally ill labeled people because it will upset them. There’s lots of academic discussion about how social media is detrimental to mental well being because posters only choose to post the good in their life. This occurs with mentally ill labeled people because others refuse to share the negative aspects of their lives with them.

    Psychiatry has convinced society that being a good family member and friend consists of making sure those labeled mentally ill are taking drugs, and going to therapy to be reminded that they are mentally defective (all forms of “therapy” where your thinking is claimed to be wrong and the cause of your suffering so let’s correct it take this route to some extent). When you yourself and/or others are told and believe you are defective it will cause social anxiety and a desire for isolation. Therapy then tells you your thinking is wrong and stupid and needs fixing. A reason therapy has little to no recorded long term benefits in quality studies is because it mostly reinforces a major cause of the anxiety.

    For those who are labeled mentally ill is a bit difficult if not near impossible to be fully included in the community, and have deep meaningful social relationships with people who mindlessly accept psychiatry.

  • They already have deadly drugs for painful psych drug induced diseases such as tardive dyskinesia, and Akinithsia. These drugs work in the same way psych drugs work. Drug companies did short term studies loaded with pro-drug biases such as the placebo group being in withdrawal, the drug group being unblinded, multiple instances of cherry picking, and hiding of negative effects/data. The drugs marketed for TD cause sedation, and cognitive impairment which psychiatrists pretend helps so they can avoid their guilt. Though there is a good argument that the purpose is to sedate and impaire people so that “normies” don’t have to deal with them. Just like psych drugs long term studies find these drugs have no benefits. In fact cogenten maintenance does worse than cogenten withdrawal. Yet the deadly dementia causing drug is still given.
    Psychiatry resembles an opioid or alcohol addiction taking meth. It gives out one deadly addicting drug with zero long term benefits and then hands out another deadly drug that has opposite effects because the first caused harm. Any serotonin or stimulant with a neuroleptic, benzo, or other sedating drug is an example.

  • Psych doesn’t just ignore any personal experiences that disagree with their interests, they flat out insult, stigmatize, and forcibly drug/hospitalize those whose experiences don’t fit with their dogma. Anyone who has a psych label should be aware that a common response if people know they do not take psych drugs will be increased stigmatization, insults, and blame. They will be pressured and/or harassed if they don’t take them drugs. If they refuse anything bad that occurs will be blamed on their refusal to use the drugs.

  • According to psychiatric measurements of psychosis (PANSS) you disagreeing with psychiatry so adamantly, and being so hostile towards psychiatrists means you are psychotic and need to take neuroleptic drugs to fix your defective brain. Since you are mentally ill you are dangerous and they can with the aid of the police throw you in a hospital and force the drugs on you.
    Psych supporters flat out say that It is very stigmatizing if we do not tell people they are genetically/biologically/mentally defective and are second class citizens. Psychiatry is working very hard to reduce discrimination and stigmatization by insulting and drugging more and more people.

  • In science studies done by people selling tobacco, people who have been taking tobacco for decades and quit have higher cancer rates than those who keep using the medication. There are more cancer deaths in tobacco deficient people during years when they do not take tobacco*. Tobacco reduces cancer deaths.

    *I’m going to end my snark and explain this. There are psych drug studies where they claim someone who takes the drugs for years-decades and quits counts as “non drug.” In these studies someone taking the drug from age 25-45 counts as 0 deaths on drugs over 20 years. If they quit because the drug caused heart disease and they then die from a heart attack 2 years after quitting it counts as 1 death off drugs over 2 years. The drugs can now be falsely claimed to save lives and extend lifespan!
    This fallacy is called the healthy user bias. People in poorer health or who are hurt more by the drugs are more likely to quit the drugs. Contrary to what psych says the people quitting do so mostly because they have not improved or the drugs caused harm.

  • The measurements used in psych studies to determine “improvement” are subjective personal reports not only from the users but the psychiatrists making money off the drugs.

    In depression scales used for psych drug studies a person gaining weight has achieved more benefit than people taking the drug. The psychiatrist reporting the person fidgets less has achieved more benefit than those taking the drug.

    It is also interesting how many of the measurements consist of how much the person complains. In essence if the drug silences someone by causing mental decline psychiatry considers it a benefit.