Wednesday, August 10, 2022

Comments by Willoweed

Showing 324 of 324 comments.

  • 1) The group that did not take antidepressants long term had demographics associated with worse health outcomes. Some example’s being they were poorer, less likely to be married, less likely to have health insurance and more likely to be minorities.
    2) The group that did not take antidepressants had worse starting baseline scores.

    It appears psychiatrists don’t even bother reading studies and instead just copy and paste “people off drugs weren’t as sick.” That or they do read them and are lying for self gain.
    In studies on every other medical modality people who comply have better outcomes —not counting any medicinal effects— compared to people who do not. That psych thinks parading out that poor people who don’t follow health advice are inheritantly always healthier and better off than richer people who follow health advice is a confession. Psych drugs are so damaging that they reverse the health benefits of wealth.

    Some aspects of this study bias the results in favor of antidepressants. This study excludes all the people killed from and institutionalized from the drugs. Imagine someone saying alcohol addiction wasn’t that bad because a study on the negative effects of alcohol did not include anyone who died from alcohol related causes.

  • I wonder if our timeline is the only one where adults say —without a hint of shame —- “addict that kid to meth like stimulants or I will because I want my job to be easier.”

    Buy a kid a beer and it’s jail. Force meth down their throats and you’re helping them.

    All those drug users the police arrested over the year most be confused about the cognitive dissonance.

  • One way to express the clinical insignificance of 2 points is to show several ways someone can achieve 2 points on the scale.

    Here are 4 ways to get 2 points in the the HAM-D scale
    -Agree that you are mentally ill
    -No longer losing weight
    -Instead of asking for help or complaining you are now self absorbed
    -No longer play with your hands or hair

    The psychiatrist finding any of those means you’ve achieved the reported benefits of the drugs in heavily biased and flawed studies designed to make the drugs look effective.

  • In isn’t just cynicisms but censorship.
    If they flat out said “the brain disease cause of mental illness spread by psychiatry was always a false lie” they would have a hard –if not impossible– time getting their study published.
    When Peter Gotzsche tried to get a review/study on psychiatric drug withdrawal published medical journals wouldn’t do it unless in his write up he –falsely– proclaimed how the drugs were effective and safe.

    A head shaking result is that studies showing negative effects of drugs get filled with pro-drug assumptive statements and propaganda. This occurs all the time when a study finds that psych drug worsens outcomes, where the authors –without and even counter to the evidence– make assumptions about how the people off drugs must have some unknown factor causing better outcomes. Harrow’s “antipsychotic” study exemplifies this. His study showed that people with the most severe labels off the drugs had 50% better outcomes than those with the more mild labels on them. Yet the authors originally made assumptive statements how this didn’t mean the drugs worsened outcomes. In later years they retracted those statements.

  • “Interestingly, some anti-depressants increase neurogenesis.”

    The measurements/tests used for that claim find the drugs cause increases in certain biological factors. However, those same biological factors are also caused by brain cell death. Claims about “anti-depressants” increasing neurogenesis are based on assuming the drugs cause it rather then cell death.
    Luckily, there are direct measurements and they show that “antidepressants” both in cell cultures and inside humans cause brain cell disfigurement and death.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2012.00117/full
    (scroll to the neuronal proliferation, death section)

  • Stimulants and serotonin drugs cause “psychotic” and “manic” behaviors/feelings. Essentially psychiatry gave you drugs and then gave you more drugs to address the problems caused by the first drugs. And round and round it went.

    “Mental illness” is a misnomer in that a medical illness is defined as a biological abnormality that causes negative effects. There are no scientifically replicatable or valid biological abnormalities that cause what psychiatry calls “mental illness”. They don’t do any tests and instead utilize circular reasoning to declare someone ill and in need for deadly drugs for life.

    Your story is uncommon in that you recognized the drugs were not helping and that you were better without them. Many people struggle to find the courage to admit that. I hope you can see the strength that took from you.

    As for being concerned about negative health outcomes in the future you will have increased risk but that does not mean you will get dementia or have a heart attack. You will also have less risk because you are no longer taking the drugs and because your physical health has improved. The primary thing you can do now is stay off the drugs and work at having a healthy lifestyle.

  • Anyone think it will be easier or more fulfilling to socialize if people think you have an ill brain just like diabetes or cancer? It’s no surprise people with these diagnoses isolate. When socializing means being reminded people think what you are is an illness socializing results in suffering. Will your self esteem worsen or improve if you believe what makes you you is an illness? No wonder people with these labels feel worthless; society has yelled in their face that they are worthless. Would someone be more or less motivated to improve their life if their problems are caused by a chemical imbalance? Self induced activities and effort can’t fix what’s wrong because what’s wrong is chemicals in the brain that are fixed with drugs. Psychiatric diagnosis operate as self-fulfilling prophecies. They violate the principle of “first do no harm”

  • There is a non-drug mechanism that worsens the women’s mental well being in the story. She has whichever compilation of negative feelings coursing through her because of being mugged. When she goes to the “brain experts” and doctors they tell her, “It is because your brain is ill like cancer and therefore you need drugs to be “mentally healthy””. Essentially her being mugged is blamed on her, specifically her “ill brain”. If she had any thoughts that it was her fault (society does often blame women and people for being assaulted or abused) she now has “expert” consultation telling her yes it is your fault. Her self esteem is reduced. She has been informed she is hopeless and powerless and when the active placebo effect dissipates that feeling will hit harder.

    One effect of claiming distress is an “illness” is that people will be less likely to talk and share what is causing them distress. Telling the psychiatrist you are sad and can’t sleep will illicit the same response as telling them the sex abuse is making you sad and unable to sleep. It is a lot less distressful to remove the sex abuse part especially when the psychiatrists claims your distress from it is “your ill brain”. This creates a feedback loop where people don’t share and that makes the psychiatrists believe all those emotions and behaviors are caused by an illness. What is interesting is that in psychiatric scales measuring mental health someone mentioning poor physical health, complaining, or refusing to blame their brain are signs of worse “illness”. If anyone is a cynic it appears psychiatry considers a major benefit to be getting people harmed by society to shut up about it.

  • If alcohol, meth, and tobacco were discovered by a pharmaceutical corporation they’d all be called safe and effective psychiatric drugs and prescribed to hundreds of millions world wide by psychiatrists. People would have tobacco, meth, and alcohol imbalances and these drugs would fix it. This would be proven science because someone addicted to the drugs have chemical differences than those not taking them. Alcohol would be said to increase life expectancy because people who quit have higher death rates during the withdrawal period. Users would go around proclaiming how the drugs saved their lives and they cannot function without them. Schools, hospitals and parents would harass and even force people to take them for their own good.
    Hell this already happens with meth and tens of millions of children are coerced to take it daily.

  • This applies to all psychiatric labels at various levels.
    It’s common for people who were abused, or bullied to wonder if it was partially their fault. “What’s wrong with me that caused me to be treated this way?” Psychiatry responds with, “you have an ill brain and it is your (brains) fault.” Someone coming to psychiatry with feelings of sadness and social anxiety will be told the cause is their diseased brain. Being told what makes you you is diseased is a recipe for increased emotional suffering, and low self esteem.

    A psychiatric diagnosis tares a person down. It’s a de facto statement that the person is less than “normal” people. It Makes them hopeless, fearful, and convinces them they lack the ability and power to feel good. The result is an enhanced placebo effect when the drugs are used. Now the drugs are considered helpful solely if the active placebo effect bring the person back to their emotional state before they were convinced of their hopelessness, powerlessness and inevitable horrid future.

    This is why so many people end up being put on new drugs over and over. The placebo effect fades, the drug damage occurs, and the cause of the emotional problem is not only not dealt with but made worse with stigmatization and hopelessness. If the cause of the problems are addressed or solved during this time by natural means the benefits are assumed to be from the drugs and withdrawal enforces this believe.

  • The first link is the 9 month randomized study showing neuroleptic drugs cause around 4 time more brain loss than what occurs over an entire lifespan (note the non-drug group is a group harmed by neuroleptics and put into withdrawal during this period)
    https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/07/randomized-controlled-trial-confirms-antipsychotics-damage-brain/

    The next 3 links find neuroleptics are deadly. Over 40% of people put on the drugs died within 20 years. Overall all tobacco addicts have an increased mortality of around 85% compared to over 250% increased mortality for use of “antipsychotic” drugs
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16449697/

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9926037/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888674/pdf/CPN2013-247486.pdf

  • Imagine someone who feels worthless, powerless and blames themselves for the abuse humanity did to them. They go to a psychiatrist and the psychiatrist tells them yes you are powerless, worthless enough to make you a second class citizen and it is your brains fault. I can fix you and save you from a life of suffering if you buy my drugs. The first thing a psychiatrists does is make the patient feel worse in order to manipulate them into taking the drugs being sold. When this dawns on people, if it ever does they are now addicted to the drugs and in a withdrawal trap.

  • For 3 years psychiatry jailed and forcibly poisoned* someone by claiming they were delusional. All it took was a few internet searches and phone calls to prove the person was in fact correct. The reason this instance of abuse/torture by psychiatry is so newsworthy is because it showed that psychiatry does not first find out what is true before claiming someone/thing is delusional.

    In the news it was reported that the guy psychiatry tortured is now afraid to leave his sisters house, unable to sleep, socially distant and “depressed” because of what psychiatry with the backing of the government did to him. Psychiatry gave this guy a “mental illness” and none of the people who did it received any punishment.

    *Mortality studies find neuroleptic take several times more years off someone’s lifespan than if they smoked tobacco. A randomized brain study found in 9 months these drugs cause almost 4 times more brain loss than what occurs in an entire lifespan.

  • It also depends on what is defined as “less depressed” The symptom scaled psychiatry uses find that answering “I am not depressed and am not mentally ill” will result in someone’s score being worse for depression than the entire stated score improvement caused by serotonin drugs.

    For neuroleptic studies if someone starts trusting psychiatry, agrees they are ill and need drugs, and are now longer disagreeable with the psychiatrists they have had a larger improvement for schizophrenia than the entire stated drug benefit.

    And those studies are he most flawed in favor of the drugs contain withdrawal, active placebo/unblinding, cherry picking and other biases to make the drugs appear more effective.

  • The 20% is for studies that outright fabricated their “data”. The inability of studies to be replicated is another category. Studies being low quality and filled with flaws would be another.

    The Statin study likely defined “reduced heart disease” by a reduction in total cholesterol. It likely wasn’t able to find a reduction in mortality because taking a drug where one effect is reduced total cholesterol doesn’t necessarily mean an increased lifespan. An Analogy will show why. Taking meth will reduce obesity but also increases mortality. Drug studies typically do not look at long term effects at all or negative health effects not related to the drugs target. Research shows Statins increase the risk of dementia, cancer, muscle pain (reducing exercise), and diabetes. Those increased deaths won’t show up in a short to mid term study looking primarily had cholesterol levels.

  • Here is another description of the course of events.
    Jason is molested.
    Jason feels the molestation was his fault, feels shame and believes there is something wrong with him.
    The “expert” psychiatrist then informs Jason that there is something wrong with him and his brain is “ill” and “imbalanced”.
    Everyone begins treating him as “ill” and he feels more shame, and gets more confirmation that the trauma in his life is his fault (specifically his brains fault).
    The effect of a psychiatric diagnosis is that it tells people it is their fault. Jason blamed himself for the abuse and the psychiatrist essentially told Jason his brain was at fault.

    Considering all the reasons people don’t talk about being abused, a psychiatry label compounds those and makes it less likely they will tell people. Being defined as mentally ill reduces self esteem, self confidence, and credibility. Children get abused in part because they lack those three qualities and present less risk to the abuse of being jailed compared to adults. Labeling someone as mentally ill particularly a child as psychotic is putting a target on them for abusers.

  • A common response when it is pointed out that in the long term those who quit the drugs have better outcomes is that they quit them because they had less “illness” and quit because they recovered. This is stated with zero evidence and simply assumed because psychiatry has concluded the drugs are safe and effective regardless of the evidence.

    Anyone who bothers to think will recognize that people are more likely to quit a drug when they have a bad outcome. Less people go, “Wow I am happy and life is great now that I am taking this medication; I am going to quit the medication now.” compared to “I am miserable still and now I am fat, impaired and have stomach issues from the drug; I am going to quit it.”

    In the entire field of medicine not complying with the doctor is associated with worse outcomes regardless of the effects of the health care. All else equal we should expect that those who do not comply with psychiatry to have worse outcomes than those who do regardless of psychiatric drug effects. Yet the opposite occurs in psychiatry to such an extent that long term those who didn’t comply have normal lives and those complying are chronically miserable and die decades earlier.

    A study found that people who decided to stop taking or not to take “antidepressants” started with worse distress and symptoms compared to those that kept taking the drugs.
    http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?doi=10.1001/jamainternmed.2016.5057

  • The reason for injectable neuroleptics is to force/coerce people to take them. That was their stated purpose, to make people comply. Someone given oral drugs can choose to not take the drugs themselves. Someone being injected can’t without having to beg their drug dealer to let them.

    Everyone knows psych drug dealers can forcibly jail and drug people with no accountability. There is no consent when force and punishment are used and the person is injected by those make the threats and dishing out the punishments. Abusers use this tactic a lot “well the person I’ve been abusing didn’t tell me to go to hell while I was threatening them with overwhelming power so they consented.”

  • “Who do you think is doing the telling, and what is their method of getting so many others to do their bidding?”

    The propagandized masses are doing most the telling. Those not obeying the party line are labeled as “quacks” and get fired. It isn’t necessary that there is a group who meets up and decides who gets fired for not adhering to the propaganda enough. Instead it is an emergent process where anyone not repeating pharma marketing is ad hominemed as “anti-science” and “dangerous” which proceeds to them getting fired, and unpublished in medical journals.
    The psychiatrists who tell the world how smart they are know at some level that if they oppose the party line publicly they will likely lose their income, and social status. They lack what it takes to fight a system that destroys people and choose to follow.
    Some know full well they are psychopathic liars but they are insulated because the masses don’t bother with evidence or logic and blindly follow those deemed to have authority.

  • Jiddu Krishnamurti talks about how when someone thinks they know the answer or labels something they are now in a cognitive trap where they are hindered from learning anything new about the topic. This occurs in professionals where they think that since they went to school they know the answers and are smarter than everyone else. They’ve had their ego inflated and therefore don’t recognize the answers were taught by people with conflicts of interest.
    They’ve put too much of their ego and selfs into selling their product and to admit it was all a fraud is something most lack the courage to do. Especially when doing so will result in retaliation from their profession.

  • But if you become too happy, horny and skinny you have a brain disease called bipolar and will need some neuroleptics. It’s a gold mine selling people drugs because the other drugs you sold them “unmasked” their brain disease.
    Imagine if that strategy was employed with other drugs, “The tobacco unmasked that my lungs had a genetic problem.” “I now drink alcohol because the cocaine proved I have an illness that causes too much energy.”

  • Taking drugs because the people making money from them say so is an interesting use of the appeal to authority logical fallacy. Though it is an old strategy that was employed by the tobacco companies. 9 in 10 doctors recommend Camel (Neuroleptic’s by the way are several times deadlier than tobacco).

    Society has conditioned people to throw out critical thinking and obey. Forbes had an article about how people should not do their own research and should just do what they are told. It’s to the point where even if you show people the science they simply refuse to consider it because some authority does their thinking for them.

  • “Just as much suffering as le cox noted about expecting people who are unhappy to “leave their comfort zone.” ”

    This made me think that a major reason people are unhappy is because they are already constantly out of their comfort zone. I can see how this scenario can play out.
    Person is miserable because their shit job is unconformable.
    “You need to get out of your comfort zone more!”
    The Person then does more uncomfortable shit instead of addressing the actual issues. When the person who gave the advice see the person out of the comfort zone they declare themselves to have “helped”.

  • Mad in America had an article about how anti-authoritarians are labeled as “mentally ill.” Something similar is happening here with “autism”. People given the autism label don’t obey socially adopted and accepted biases, and opinions as much. Therefore they get bullied, and stigmatized and the results of all that results in distress. The distress with the nonconformity is then labeled “autism” and blamed on the victim. Many of the traits associated with an autism label consist of neutral things that other people dislike (not looking people in the eyes, for example).

    “intuition:
    One way to describe intuition is the internalized social expectations and assumptions your social group has installed in you. People who go against the group don’t get treated well.

    “people diagnosed with ASD tend to have more problems applying heuristics (problem-solving shortcuts)”

    The most commonly used problem solving shortcut I can think of is appeal to authority. Not following authority in school, and social interactions results in punishment which in turn causes negative emotional, education and social effects.

    Psych labels are in large part if not in full the scapegoating term people use to whitewash the abuse society constantly hurls and people.

    Sorry if I went off on a tangent.

  • “there will be a voice-over telling the audience that, “many people are being helped by psychiatric drugs.””

    This plays out in most medical journals and studies on psych drugs. Studies on a specific harm of the drug will make unsupported claims about how despite the negative effect the drugs are effective.

    It’s head shaking how frequently people will claim to have evidence showing psych drugs are safe and effective when what they really have is some unsupported claim that they attach authority to.

  • Here is a randomized study finding that 9 months of “antipsychotic” drug use causes brain loss that is 4 times the brain loss that occurs over an entire lifespan.

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/2761879

    Here is one that found “illness” severity and recreational drug abuse had no or little correlation with brain damage while the drugs caused brain damage. One of this studies authors was the former editor of the American Journal of psychatry.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3476840/

    This study found depending on the length of use the drugs caused an 8-20% shrink in total brain weight in primates.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15756305/

    Another study finding the drugs cause brain damage. This study was funded by drug corporations and done by authors known for putting out flawed/biased research favoring the drugs.

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0101689

    The most common tactic of psychiatry is to blame the drug effects and brain damage on their victims.

  • Psychiatric “diagnosis” is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It works just like a placebo. When people are told they have a terminal illness they get miserable because of it. Just like when they are told and believe they have an ill brain and will be mentally ill for life they get miserable.

    The people around them then treat them as mentally ill resulting in stigma, discrimination, stress and social difficulties. There is less motivation to change aspects of ones life because doing so won’t fix a chemical imbalance. Instead of partaking in pleasurable or productive activities the “mentally ill” are told to go to therapy where this self fulfilling prophecy is reinforced. Talking with friends or family results in a response containing “take drugs” and “seek help.”

    The mental illness industry lies to people to make them feel powerless and hopeless and uses that fear to make people dependent on them. This goes so far as addicting people to deadly, cognitive impairing drugs that worsen outcomes. The most effective step out of this cycle is to recognize that in the medical and biological sense “mental illness” isn’t real. People struggle to do this because they’ve been manipulated to think the only way suffering can occur is if it is a brain disease. They think it is insulting if you don’t tell them they have inferior brains.

  • Neuroleptic drugs were described by psychiatry as a “chemical lobotomy” until lobotomies were recognized for what they were. This earlier description was accurate in the sense that these drugs cause brain damage to everyone taking them.

    Psychiatry when not denying/ignoring the science often claims that this brain damage is helpful. Benzo type drugs, “antidepressants” cause dementia/brain damage as well.

    Lobotomy equaled giving people brain damage and calling it medicine.
    Psychiatric drugs equals giving people brain damage and calling it medicine.

    Maybe someone else can give the term for psychiatry saying people “lack insight” and are too stupid to know that brain damage is good for them.

  • Right, like you hundreds of millions of people have been harmed by psychiatric “treatments”. Mortality data shows these drugs kill over half a million people a year. Far less will be harmed by this new drug. It can feel like a spit in the face how few care about the more massive scale destruction. However, reporting how the FDA is approving a drug for dementia when the drug corporation couldn’t even produce evidence the drug helps at all is a good thing in sending psychiatry to the graveyard with blood letting, and mercury treatments. It is harder to use appeal to authority argument of “Psych drugs are approved by the FDA so they are safe and effective” when people remember how the FDA approved a drug witliterally zero evidence of providing any benefit.

  • With certain poly-pharmaceutical combos I think there is reason to believe that it may be easier to withdrawal from two drugs at once compared to one at a time. Psychiatry often will put someone on a second drug in order to address symptoms caused by the first. A sedating drug with a stimulant or SRI. One drug causes “upper” effects while the other causes “downer” effects. This can even take the form of taking a drug that increases dopamine with a drug that blocks dopamine. These drug combos counter act each other and maybe tapering both at once will reduce some withdrawal effects. Tapering a stimulant may make people tired. Tapering the sedative at the same time may reduce this tired feeling.

    Another strategy that may help for those on drug combos is to switch which drug is tapered each time. For example someone taking a SRI and a stimulant would first reduce the SRI and then 2 weeks later reduce the stimulant. 2 weeks after, they reduce the SRI again and repeat. The person will still be in withdrawal for the same amount of time but their body will have more time to adjust to the dosage change of each individual drug before a new dosage change of that drug.

    I have no scientific evidence to suggest if these ideas help; only anecdotal accounts which may be flukes that are wrong.

  • All psychiatric studies claiming the people they label have biological defects use people addicted to psychiatric drugs. People labeled with schizophrenia were said to have a brain disease because they had brain damage, when in fact the drugs caused it. Most if not all traits associated with the “mentally ill” are things the drugs cause or increase. Including, recreational drug use, violence, brain damage, unemployment, shorter lifespans, agitation/an inability to sit still, drooling, cognitive impairment, physical gait, obesity, and so on.

    These traits caused by the drugs are then used to argue the people must have a biological problem. Technically this is true because the drugs are causing biological problems.

  • Comments on some of your listed points.

    1. An aspect of this is that you get drugs regardless of what you tell about your life. Why tell a psychiatrist why you feel miserable when they will invalidate you and tell you it is because your “brain is ill” and give you a drug either way.

    2. Blaming peoples brains also means any social, or environmental factors are less likely to be improved. Why change a social factor when the problem is an “ill brain”.

    4-5. Some response when telling people who take these drug or are suffering withdrawal that they are physically addicted is something along the line of “stop insulting me by calling my a drug addict.” I wonder how many people went to a psychiatrists just to get some stimulants or benzos because the drugs cause a high.

    6-7. It is interesting how childhood ADHD symptoms are a problem for the adults who then convince themselves and the child that drugging the child to help the adults manage the kid is “health”.

    9. This ties in with the other ones. Being labeled as “mentally ill” means people are unlikely to take you seriously, listen or consider what you say. This causes topics about your “mental illness” to be the major way to obtain social support, validation, or to be listened to.

    10. I think it would also be important to note that psychiatric drugs cause disability, cognitive and physical impairment, and unemployment. It is not just that it allows people to get disability benefits but psychiatry harms people with disability causing drugs.

    11. Psychiatry manipulates people to make them feel powerless, and hopeless. They use this to then get people dependent on psychiatry. They go so far as to get people physically addicted to drugs.

  • Does anyone disagree that psychiatrists making people feeling guilty and personaly responsible for the negative effects of psychiatrics drugs is a form of gaslighting and victim blaming?

    “Here is this drug (which I make my money from) it is safe and effective.”

    Later when the person gains weight because the drug slows down their metabolism, causes sedation, and increases cravings for unhealthy food.

    “You need to make a few $200 appointments to help facilitate a change in your eating and exercise habits because they are causing health problems.”

  • Here are a list of some of the side effects of opioid antagonists which is added to Zyprexa for this “new” drug.

    -Anxiety
    -Trouble sleeping
    -Headaches, stomach and/or muscle pain
    -Hallucinations
    -Restlessness (Who can spell akinthsia?)
    -Liver damage
    -Reduced socialization
    -Depression
    -Suicide

    In the FDA report the new drug had worse scores on the negative and positive symptoms. The lower dosage of drugs had better scores compared to higher doses.
    The people taking the “new” drug also ended up with worse blood glucose measurements.

  • In an early Chapter, Peter talked about how psychiatrists say people are delusional and psychotic if they mention that the drugs are deadly.

    Psychiatry is by definition lying and conspiring in order to get people addicted to drugs that long term only cause harm.

    Psychiatry forcibly drugs and jails people. Monitors them. Conspires to spread propaganda and attack anyone pointing out the science.

    The paranoia symptom that is considers a “brain illness” is in practice psychiatry silencing people who dissent from their dogma.

    “You feeling you are being poisoned, watched and people are harming you is a sign of “mental illness”. Take this “antipsychotic” injection now.” -Psychiatry.

    The person who at some level recognizes what psychiatry is, gets drugs that impair cognitive abilities and cause brain damage. Perfect way to silence them. It was the same strategy the USSR used for as they put it “the dissenters who were really just mentally ill”.

  • Psychiatry can jail and even drug you if you say or appear in the “wrong way”. They aren’t there to have a social relationship. They are there to decide how you need to change to fit social expectations. It is a criminal interrogation. One where you don’t get a trial. The evidence allowed is what the people making money from drugging and jailing you say.

    I remember a survey about how maybe 50% of people had thought about suicide. It seems a likely possibility that many psych “patients” are people who didn’t decide that silence is survival. Little good comes from sharing intimate details to someone in the psych cult. Massive harm is the typical result.

  • People like Peter are dangerous. If people are told the truth about the effects of these drugs the liars selling them might be sued, shunned, and become the social lepers they turn others into with their stigmatizing labels and drugs.

    The truth is dangerous for those benefiting from the lies. But the truth can’t set us free while the liars have power. That is why a major aspect of psychiatry is to take away its victims credibility and power.

  • If they admit that what they falsely label as an “illness” doesn’t have any biological explanation it would lead them to understand they aren’t practicing medicine. That they’ve been selling stigmatizing and pessimism causing falsehood. Few people will admit they helped cause hundreds of millions of people to become physically addicted to deadly drugs based on self serving lies.

    Their social, egotistical, and financial status are more important than the people they pretend caring about.

  • A benefit in a study over placebo can occur due to any number of flaws in the study.

    All psych drugs cause a wide range of physical effects such as dry mouth, stomach issues, headaches, sedation, stimulation and so on. Because of this they cause an active placebo effect. Irving Kirsch in his review reported on research finding that 78% of patients and 88% of psychiatrists knew who was taking the drugs. Psych studies use subjective measurements done by the psychiatrist (who has a conflict of interest) to determine benefits.

    Almost every single Psych study utilizes a withdrawal design where they take people currently on the drugs and withdrawal half to create the mislabeled “placebo” group. Psych studies pretend harm caused by the drugs are benefits. Looking at the Ham D depression scale this becomes obvious because someone gaining weight, or believing they are “mentally ill”, or having the same health symptoms but reporting them less to medical professionals have a larger “benefit” than the entire reported drug benefit in flawed short term corporate studies.

    According to Psychiatry AD’s help the person by making them fatter, lowering their self esteem, and getting them to shut up about their complaints.

  • The long term research shows that psych drugs do cause the positive and negative traits marked as schizophrenic. Your comments show one evidence based way the drugs cause them.

    What I am tired of isn’t you posting the same science over and over. I am tired of society ignoring it because they don’t want to face the monster they created. You’re one of the rare humans doing good and actually working to solve the problem.

  • It’s not even just that few care about the damage done by psychiatry. It’s that they blame and attack the victims with it. Having family members tell you to take more psych drugs, even when you’ve told them the harm they’ve caused you, and shown them the long term science, is beyond my desire to describe. “Do I need to call to get you psych-hospitalized?” Is a death/torture threat, even if the family member refuses to see it for what it is.

  • The “anti-stigma” campaigns do reduce stigma which can be parsed from your, Rebel’s and Patrick Hahn’s comments. These campaigns reduce stigma for the people pressuring and forcing people to take psych drugs. Stigma is reduced for the family members and friends who interact with the “ill, dangerous, crazy people, who need to be drugged.”

    The most insidious aspect of this is that people wrapped and reformed in the psychiatry complex have internalized this. One common response when I show people taking psych drugs the research showing the drugs only have negative long term outcomes is a variation of “you’re stigmatizing me.”

    They’ve been bullied if not forced/coerced to take these drugs. They started taking the drugs in part because they were stigmatized and bullied to (examples include coerced hospitalizations, the phrases “seek help” “they’re off their meds”, schools, medical offices etc). Any attempt to quit them causes stigma. I know this first hand. My drug withdrawal was easy. I was the most productive, social, happy and healthy I had been in years. Even then the harassment because I stopped taking the drugs was hell. Many of those taking psych drugs transfer the stigma, harassment and discrimination caused by psychiatry onto the anti-psychiatry messenger.

  • Psychological therapy may help some people. The problem is that the research finds it mostly has clinically insignificant benefits. In a meta analysis that tried to include unpublished studies, the effect size for psychological therapies benefits for depression was .39(1). For reference Irving Kirsch found the effect side for short term “antidepressant” use in heavily biased/flawed corporate trials was .3(2). The improvement recorded for psychological therapy for depression comes out to around 2 points in the Ham D scale. For reference saying you are mentally ill is a 2 points improve the. Having the same emotions and problems but telling them to the psychiatrist less is also 2 point improvement.

    Therapy according to the research is pretty much pointless. If people wanted to spend their time and money doing it that would be one thing, but our society pressures people into it. Our society even forces some people to do it. If someone doesn’t do therapy or stops they get stigmatized for it. A common response if you tell someone therapy didn’t help is a version of “therapy can’t fail, only you can”

    A study found that giving people the money therapy costs improved their emotional well being more than therapy.

    There are several reasons to believe the studies are bias towards showing therapy is helpful.
    1) There are likely more unpublished studies not included
    2) You can’t unblind talk therapy. This accompanied with subjective outcome measures means the studies contain an active placebo effect.
    3) Harms are not measured or looked for.

    (1) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0137864
    (2) Mad in America’s “the people’s case against antidepressants” has this meta analysis in the beginning.

  • I agree For most social connection is very important for emotional well being. Psychiatry and talk therapy in many ways make social connection harder.

    Being professionally marked as having a defective brain, where you are considered so dangerous you need less rights than criminals makes people want to avoid you. People believing you lack insight because your brain is broken means they are less likely to listen, consider your opinion/feelings, or view you as an intellectually valid human being.

    Being told to “seek help” and “take drugs” by friends and family prevents connection from happening in the first place. It also discourages future connection because doing so can result in being called ill, and being told you’re the problem. It is also not safe to talk because you can be forcibly drugged and detained based on your thought.

    The drugs also reduce socialization. The main purpose of stimulants is to make kids stop socializing and playing and get them “working” In the Ham D depression scale someone who stops sharing and telling the psych about their negative mood, even if the mood is the same, has a larger benefit than what the most pro-drug flawed studies claim the short term benefits of the drugs are. Neuroleptics cause massive sedation and impairment.

  • Why talk about how life is so shitty it’s making you miserable when the “expert” will simply tell you it is all the fault of your brain and give you drugs?

    It is less painful to avoid being gaslit and victim blamed and not share the environmental factors bothering you. You’ll get the same drugs either way.

    I think a lot of psychs don’t recognize that they’ve conditioned people not to tell them their life problems. This then reinforced the myth that it is caused by a faulty brain because the environmental factors are actively avoided.

  • I remember reading an article about a psych resident suggesting a suicidal homeless women who had been repeatedly raped take some SSRI’s to help her depression. Psych has conditioned everyone to blame environmental factors on defective brains that need a chemical fix. No wonder suicides are increasing. The drugs won’t fix the actual problem and when the problem occurs again the person feels even more hopeless, shamed and defeated.

    The reason men have higher suicidal rates is because men use guns more for their suicide attempts. Women are actually more likely to attempt suicide but their methods are less likely to cause death.

    Somehow men using more deadly methods of suicide has been blamed on men not talking enough.

  • The results of talking about your own suicidal thoughts are dependent on the culture and person you are revealing them to. In our modern society the most likely result is you are pressured/coerced to take deadly drugs that worsen outcomes and you get stigmatized as mentally ill and dangerous.
    The most common response is being told do get addicted to drugs followed by being treated differently.

    Talking about suicide isn’t helpful when doing so is likely to cause the people around you to make your life worse. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. You reveal suicidal thoughts and people’s behavior causes more stress and emotional suffering.

  • Many people who’ve gotten ahold of their psych records note how they are filled with misinformation, and insulting diatribes. I don’t know how common that is but I wonder if an effective way to get people to stop holding their psych as a well intentioned informative expert is to have them get ahold of their records. Don’t even have to phrase it as anti-psych can just say “seeing your entire records can help facilitate improving your mental health.l

  • The subjective opinion on how kids should behave and feel while adults info dump them 7 hours a day can’t be under or over diagnosed. It’s purely an opinionated label. It would be like over diagnosing how many people have brown hair because blond hair is “superior”

    If a parent told their kid every day they were were mentally inferior and forced fed them meth they’d go to jail, unless of course a psychiatrist also tells the kid he/she is inferior and needs to be addicted to meth. Maybe some day society will recognize that telling young kids they are mentally defective, with diseased brains based on adults wanting the kids to sit down and shut up while being lectured 7 hours a day is harmful to everyone.

  • I didn’t know that asking for a class of water after being electrocuted meant “mental illness” was improved. If someone were to piss in someone’s mouth they’d probably also ask for a glass of water afterwards. Psych denies all harms, or even pretends harms are helpful (brain damage, memory loss, sedation, cognitive impairment, weight gain) while they insist that someone asking for water after being electrocuted means electrocution helps people.

  • Nutrition surveys and food consumption data suggests that around 10% of Americans eat the minimum recommended amount of fruits and vegetables per day. It’s abnormal to have a healthy lifestyle in most economically advanced nations. Though it’s probably also normal to vastly overestimated how healthy ones lifestyle is. I think one trait that might be more prevalent amongst people who get a psych label is that they for what ever reason don’t hide and deny their distress as much as others. (I remember seeing a survey where most of people had contemplated suicide).

    In Europe where there is less poverty, economic insecurity, and work weeks are shorter, people live longer, eat healthier, and spend more time soothing the soul with joyful activities compared to America. One reason for this is because America has accepted more of the psych dogma that people’s problems are caused by an inherent defect instead of being caused by environmental and social factors. Eating healthy is more likely to be blamed as a personal problem of “control” in America and therefore the idea that people would eat healthier if they had a better environment isn’t adequately considered. Europeans eat healthier because their society recognizes that in order to take care of your health you need the time and social support to do so.

  • The studies don’t even measure symptoms but simply a subjective “relapse”. Once some one relapses because of withdrawal they are relapsed for good in the study. If a person relapses a week after abrupt withdrawal but from years .5-2 have half the symptoms as those on the drugs who don’t relapse they are still considered worse off. Imagine if we used that research method for other things. “Alcohol addiction saves lives. Budweiser studies finds those in placebo get seizures, anxiety, and die at higher rates.” “Tobacco is a safe and effective treatment for depression and lethargy with no negative health effects because Marlboro study finds placebo is worse.” Placebo of course being a group addicted and abruptly withdrawn from the drug.

  • In depression scales used to measure the effectiveness of these drugs complaining about physical symptoms is marked as “mental illness”. It doesn’t matter if you have those physical symptoms complaint less is a sign the drug “works”. Not Mentioning you feel sad is also marked as less “depressed” even if your level of sadness is the same.

    The long term data shows these drugs make people’s mental health worse. I’d say it’s not that the drugs make people not care; it’s that the drugs in effect silence them from verbalizing their suffering.

  • When I think of medical care I think of police coming to the door and hauling people off against their will. Nothing makes people feel happy, safe and have better lives than being given less rights than a criminal and being forcibly jailed and drugged. Being jailed for several weeks or months is a sure bet to improve your economic and social life. The bills from the ordeal will help you pull yourself up from your bootstraps. You’ll be less afraid and more social because at any time police can come haul you off because psych said you are biologically dangerous. The beatings improve morale. /snark

  • These studies suffer the same flaws as other psych studies.

    Since 1/4 of people get prescribed the drugs in 3 months that means some of the people in the non drug group in these studies likely had been on the drugs before and are suffering withdrawal.

    The drugs also cause many physical effects that are noticeable. Over 80% of people in these trials know who is taking the drugs because of this and therefore an active placebo effect occurs.

    Opioid corporations claimed their drugs were safe and effective by using biased/flawed short term studies with the same flaws as psych studies. Low and behold when long term studies and data was done opioids are not safe or effective for chronic pain. Just like how long term studies of psych drugs find the drugs worsen outcomes.

  • “Not blindly accepting our dogma is stigmatizing for the people we insult by calling them mentally ill/defective.” -Psychiatry

    “Don’t listen to these people because they are mentally ill, and therefore crazy, lack insight and dangerous .” -Psychiatry later showing cognitive dissonance is alive and well.

    “You are mentally ill for life and can’t recover without buying our drugs.” -Psych

    “We don’t want to scare people from buying our drugs by telling them the effects of the drugs and that they do not really have an illness. Scaring people is wrong.” -Psychiatry recognizing that scaring people is bad only if it means less social status and profits for psych.

  • I had the same experience. I secretly quit the drugs because they did not help. After a while of dong great I told everyone it was because I quit the drugs. The response was to pressure and harass me to start taking the drugs. Suddenly random things I was doing was assumed to be because I was “ill” and needed drugs. I got yelled at in public because my diet was too healthy. Here I thought I had accomplished something by eating healthy but my family saw it as a sign of “illness” that needed to be controlled. The response to me getting upset for being harassed was that I needed to start taking the drugs again.
    It’s made me form the opinion that telling people you quit the drugs is not a mentally safe thing to do. Even if you show them the research showing the drugs have no long term benefits there is a good chance the will deny it. Not believing psychatry is according to psychiatry a symptom of mental illness and psychosis. That is flat out what their scales state.

  • It is insidious. They lie that their victims are ill and then give them drugs that cause illnesses. The drug induced illnesses are then blamed on the victim. When I’m with people taking psych drugs who complain about their physical or mental health it elicits this weird emotion. I know the cause and fix for their diabetes, heart disease, cognitive decline, and inability to be happy and so on but they refuse to even look at the evidence and research. Psychiatry told them they can only listen to psychiatry and that they are too “mentally defective” to understand research.

  • The psych students would be high status members of the cult. If they don’t recognize the professional does nothing but hurt people before spreading the cult they’ve already lied and caused massive harm. Most don’t have the courage to admit it so they go on in denial pretending they are saviors. This is pretty easy since almost all of society agrees with the cult, and lavishes high status members with wealth and power. Speaking out against cult dogma results in retaliation which is further deterrence.

    It also resembles how gangs initiate new members by having them commit a crime. Psych does this with family and friends by telling them to coerce people on drugs. A family member who has done this has to either stay in denial or admit they hurt their loved ones.

    People directly harmed by psych have the same pressures. They can accept they were conned into hurting themselves and then suffer withdrawal, further stigmatization and harassment for quitting the cult or they can maintain denial.

  • The irony of the justified mocking of Trump calling every piece of information he doesn’t like “fake” and everyone reporting it a vast variety of insults is that those “debate” strategies are the go to for society.

    When Trump said if we don’t test for Covid it won’t exists, he got rightfully mocked. When psychiatry does the same thing it is “medicine” and anyone pointing it out is “causing stigma” and being “anti-science”. Hell even when negative effects are tested for and found with psych drug use, pointing them out is “shaming people” and being “dangerous”

  • The Harrow study finds negative outcomes on all measures for those using the drugs (those with mild “illness” who took drugs end up with 50% worse outcomes than those with severe “illness”)
    Moshers 1978 study found in the long term those taking drugs spent more time in the hospital, had more “symptoms” less employment and poorer outcomes.
    Carpenters study found those taking the drugs were discharged later, and had a 45% relapse rate at 1 year compared to 35% of those not taking drugs.
    Nancy Sholer’s 2016 review claims these 3 studies do not find negative outcomes from neuroleptic drugs. The conclusion of this review was that there was not evidence that neuroleptic had long term benefits or harms.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4907881/

    The Wunderink long term withdrawal study finds that at 7 years long term recovery rates are over 2 times higher for those withdrawn from the drugs. I have seen multiple meta analysises claim this study shows neuroleptics improve outcomes. This is done by cherry picking the abrupt withdrawal data and only using that.

    Flat out lying in front of everyone’s faces.

  • Margaret Singer has several main characteristics of cult indoctrination.
    -Keep members ignorant about what is going on with aid from a behavioral change program designed to get them to commit more to the cult. First it’s therapy then 1 drug then 2 then 3, then a “hospitalization”.
    -A sense of powerlessness is installed (essentially the result of all psych labels and proclamations that people are ill and sick for life)
    -dependency is formed and the environment is controlled (for psych this extends to literal drug addiction, and “hospitalized camps”)
    -Manipulation and a system of rewards and punishments that change people’s social identity.
    -Create a closed system of thinking impervious to criticism, logic or evidence. Dissent from the cult is punished and discouraged (patients are slandered as “lacking insight” forcibly drugged/jailed, psychiatrists get fired if they dissent)
    -The cult members blindly follow leaders who have inherently higher status than the other members.

    If this were a psychiatry “diagnosis” 4 out of 6 of these traits are needed to be diagnosed as a cult. The treatment would be large amounts of cognitive impairing deadly sedating drugs. Forced if need be.

  • It is possible to tally the yearly deaths caused by psych drugs.
    Neuroleptics increase all cause mortality by over 250%.
    Serotonin drugs increase it by 54%
    Benzodiazepine type drugs increase it by 63% (9% more than those who were put on Serotonin drugs).
    Stimulants are as deadly as the above drug.
    A rough estimate using the increased death rates with the age of users finds psych drugs kill around 500,000 people a year in America alone.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888674/pdf/CPN2013-247486.pdf

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2017.00275/full

    https://www.bmj.com/content/358/bmj.j2941

  • The PANSS scale used by psychiatry can result in someone scoring psychotic if they score a 5 out of 7 for their grandiose, hostile, and suspicions disagreement with psychiatry. This scoring is actually slightly higher than the mean score for those labeled with “schizophrenia.” Get the lowest rating possible for delusions, conceptual disorganization and hallucinations and you can still be scored as more psychotic than the typical person labeled with “schizophrenia”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_and_Negative_Syndrome_Scale#Positive_scale
    https://www.psychdb.com/_media/psychosis/panss.pdf

  • It is also destructive socially. Being professionally labeled as a dangerous, insight lacking disease with a defective brain who needs less rights than normal people isn’t conductive to a decent social life. Any complaint someone with these labels makes can be blamed on their chemical imbalance. They lack insight so what they say isn’t viewed for what it is but rather as something a defective brain would say. Any “bizarre” behavior such as walking outside at night can be construed as suicidal and result in the cops coming to lock you up.

  • Taking the increased death rate from psych drugs and the age of users we can say psychiatry kills 500,000 people in America each year. The average psychiatrist kills more people than the largest serial killers. Psychiatrists have delusions of grandeur, show paranoia that every one is dangerous, hallucinate demon like “chemical imbalances” , maintain their delusions regardless of being proven wrong, and show bizarre behaviors such as forcibly drugging kids with meth. Clearly they have the brain disease called schizophrenia and need a double dose of neuroleptics. Of course that is according to the standards of psychiatry, which are garbage.

  • Because people who mention that the drugs have no long term benefits and only cause harm are stigmatized, fired, censored, and/or slandered. There is a price that is paid by those speaking truth to power. Few people will take that price, especially when they’ve been initiated into the group, or are using defective brains as scapegoats.
    How many people have told or pressured someone they cared about to “to seek help” or “take drugs”? In order for that group to admit psychiatry causes only harm they’d have to recognize the harm they did.
    When the options are scapegoat defective brains, or be retaliated against for admitting psychiatry with your aid committed horrid atrocities, people will usually pick the former. They will defend it mindlessly and abusively because avoiding guilt is a powerful motivator.

  • Meth addiction is good for you if a 5 minute subjective questionnaire done by someone selling meth to you finds your answers prove you have a brain disease.

    Responsible meth dealers help their patients fill this quiz out before selling them drugs. Moral meth dealers tell their customers the drugs are safe. If their customers quit they remind them the withdrawal means the drugs are effective.

    Meth dealers who are praised by society sell their meth patients some sedatives when sleep troubles, anxiety or irritability occur. They are sure to say that the deadly sedatives are good because the patient has a brain disease.

  • One “anti-stigma” campaign showed us what the real goal was. It had people wear shirts with labels. One persons shirt had “bi-polar” her sisters shirt had “sister” The goal is to objectivity those labeled with “mental illness” to reduce stigma for everyone else. One result of this is to make people feel better if they force and push the objectified on drugs.

    In psychiatry forums saying someone is mentally ill is helping them. Saying they are not defective and don’t need deadly drugs is stigmatizing them. In psychiatry stigma means preventing “the mentally ill” from accepting they are less than every one else.

  • A victim who is viewed by everyone else as too stupid to know anything, who therefore can’t be believed, who is an easy scapegoat for everyone, who has had their power removed, is the best kind of victim for the bully. A silenced person who won’t be listened to because they are “mentally ill” has less risk for the bully.
    Psychiatry insults their “patients” as mentally defective, stupid and lacking insight because it makes it harder for the victims of psychiatry to fight back and get justice. It makes it easier for a society to pressure and force people to get psychiatric services. Dehumanizing people makes it easier to force treatment on them because society believes they need it for “their own good”.

  • Psychosis like all psychiatric terms and labels are mostly subjective and depend what is assumed as “correct”. For example in the PANSS psychosis scale someone can be labeled psychotic for disagreeing with psychiatry and being too hostile towards the psychiatrists. Hostility to people proclaiming you get less rights than criminals because you are stupid and mentally defective sounds like an expected response. Though I lack insight so what do I know?

    Back in the day slaves and racial minorities who didn’t agree they were inferior races were labeled as psychotic. Women who got upset about being treated as mules also got labeled as mentally ill. Regardless of intent, psychiatry silences people. It turns those silenced into easy targets for bullies and criminals. Society recognizes this truth considering a common arguing tactic is to tell someone they are off their drugs, and/or mentally ill.

  • “You lack insight and are too stupid to know what is good for you so we are going to give you brain damage and cause cognitive impairment.” -Psychiatry.

    “Lack insight” is a euphemism for “won’t blindly obey psychiatrists and pay them money.”

    In fact in psychiatries PANSS psychotic scale you can be labeled psychotic simply for being hostile enough in your disagreement with psychiatry. Anyone know the definition of a death cult?

  • In the HAM D depression and PANSS psychotic scales psychiatry uses to measure mental illness complaining about your health, or physical symptoms is a sign of mental illness. The solution of course is more psych drugs. If the SSRI gives you headaches/stomach problems/physical symptoms it means you are mentally ill and need more psych drugs. Also if someone is concerned about their health and goes out of their way to be healthy it is also a sign of mental illness.

    In the PANSS psychotic scale you can be labeled psychotic simply for disagreeing with psychiatry strongly enough with hostile tones in your disagreement.

  • According to this study electrocuting brains to induce brain damage increases suicide by 31%. If you want to see what “informed consent” in psychiatry looks like view the conclusions of this study where it ignores the data and claims ECT is no different on the measure of suicide than people not getting ECT. 2 plus doesn’t equal 5 but 131 equals 100 if you have the insight of psychiatry. This is why they don’t want patients to actually read the research in its whole.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32205732/

  • A common quote goes, “it is not paranoia if they really are out to get you.” Almost all of those labeled as paranoid schizophrenics can one up that with, “it is not paranoia when they already got me and millions of others and almost no one cares.”
    Psychiatry forcibly jails people and then forcibly drugs them with disabling drugs that take 20 years off a lifespan. Drugs with effects occurring in about half of users that are described as torture. The Soviets in fact did torture people with the same drugs. Luckily for psychiatry anyone pointing this out can be insulted as “mentally ill” and ignored/drugged.

  • The most well known direct death associated with deaths of despair is opioid deaths.
    Opioids parallel psych drugs near perfectly.
    Opioid drug sellers lied and said the drugs were safe, effective, and non-addicting. None of those were true; long term studies show opioids do not improve pain and likely worsen pain. The drug manufactures coordinated with doctors to push and sell the drugs. Those who refused to get on board were said to be stigmatizing and hurting people with pain. Doctors salaries where linked to making sure they prescribed opioids for pain. Arguing with the science (short term studies designed by the drug sellers to make the drugs look good) resulted in getting insulted or worse.

    The pain was often blamed for negative effects opioids, and more drug prescriptions followed. When negative effects of the drugs were subtly admitted the resulted was another drug to instead of removing the causative agent. Those taken off the drugs went through withdrawal and either needed to go through loads of suffering or keeping taking the drugs falsely labeled as safe. The major difference between psych drugs and opioids is psych drugs don’t get people high with pleasure before addiction kicks in.
    It might be effective to bring up the similarities between opioids and psych drugs when trying to inform people.

  • Exactly.
    Here is some of what psychiatry measures to determine if their drugs improve depression.
    Each change bellow is a 2 point improvement
    gaining weight
    agreeing you are ill and defective
    fidgeting less with hands and hair
    Look irritable instead of apprehensive
    No longer occupied with health
    No longer has moderate complaints about physical symptoms

    The drugs in the most biased studies with half a dozen major flaws that make the drugs appear better record a 1.5 point improvement. The studies that release the weekly data show this improvement only occurs in the beginning of use. The withdrawal group (falsely labeled as placebo) has the same relapse rate in weeks 5-6 as the drug group.

    https://dcf.psychiatry.ufl.edu/files/2011/05/HAMILTON-DEPRESSION.pdf
    https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/03/do-antidepressants-work-a-peoples-review-of-the-evidence/

  • The first Prozac trials gave people benzos to deal with the agitation, sleep troubles and anxiety caused by serotonin drugs. It’s now standard for psychiatry to give people drugs that increase serotonin followed by a neuroleptic which blocks dopamine and serotonin. It is exactly like taking cocaine to get up and opioids to get down.

    It also goes the other way as well. Give them neuroleptics followed by stimulants or serotonin drugs to address the effects of the first deadly drug. When the drugs cause akinithsia and TD you’ll get some more deadly dementia causing drugs with zero long term benefits.

    Tobacco should have went the psychiatry route. “People have tobacco deficiencies. Studies show tobacco users have biological differences and illness. We have 6 week studies showing tobacco is safe and improves energy, happiness, and productivity. When people with tobacco deficiency disease quit tobacco their symptoms come back and they suffer. Anyone saying otherwise is anti-science, shamming sick people, and being dangerous.”

  • “All good children” by Catherine Austen is another science fiction book with a story revolving around the wonders of drugging people “for their own good”

    The Plague Dogs by Richard Adams is a fiction about two dogs who escape a medical research lab. One of the dogs was subjected to a lobotomy type mutilation. The dogs in the book can be viewed as representing how society treats those who are labeled as mentally ill.

    One flew over the cuckoos nest is good book which needs no explanation.

  • I was unable to find the full text of the study, however I found the publication summary.
    People whose brains were electrocuted had 31% higher suicide rates. This increase was labeled “statistically insignificant” despite the study having a large sample size. Apparently if a psych treatment increases suicides by 31% all you have to do is call it insignificant and the harm disappears*.

    The authors allude to comparing Electrocuting brains with other psych “treatments”, if true ECT in this study could find it increase suicides by 31% on top of the 200% plus increase caused by psych drugs. It would also be good to see specifically how they adjusted the data based on whatever various factors they decided to adjust for.

    * The study says that the CI is .96-1.96. This essentially means there are probabilities that ECT changes suicide by -4% all the way through increasing it by 96%.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32205732/

  • If you do have a mind of your own you’ll likely be stigmatized as “anti-science”, “lacking insight,” and “dangerous”. You’ll be pressured to go to psychiatry for “treatment.” When you complain about anything you won’t be taken seriously because you’re mentally ill and off your drugs so it is automatically your fault.

    What’s to be alone when I’m a disease?
    It’s no longer home if you set it aflame
    In the fire my brain gets the blame
    You act like I’m a game to control.

    Passed out again with wine on your face
    I ask to be treated as if I was human
    How could I be fine with a reply of no?
    I’m a ghost in death and in this place
    But I heard you blame the bottle on me

    Still with love that is ready to forgive
    For the muscles I can no longer control
    And the headaches exacting their toll
    Yet with wine you yell “take those pills”
    Since even my ghost you want to kill.

  • Facts and logic likely won’t get someone out of an opinion that facts and logic didn’t get them into.
    This especially applies when the facts and logic show the person has caused massive suffering and harm.

    Schools and parents should teach kids about logical fallacies. A major problem is that most discussions devolve into repeating the same logic fallacies over and over. But then adults wouldn’t be able to easily use those logical fallacies to control the kids.

    Psychiatry initiates family and people by getting them to coerce “mentally ill” people to take drugs and “seek help”. This is exactly what gangs do when they initiate new members by having them commit a crime. These initiated people can’t exit denial when they see facts and logic about how psychiatry causes only harm because they helped perpetuate psychiatry on others. It is either admit they got conned into poisoning and stigmatizing their loved ones, or flail with logical fallacies, and ooze self righteous anger at the messenger. Maybe an effective strategy is first addressing people’s guilt. How to do that is beyond me at the current moment though.

  • Anyone who actually practices “first do no harm” wouldn’t slap on a stigmatizing label that serves as a self fulfilling prophecy of doom.

    A major issue with forced “treatment”is that it causes all treatment to contain force. A patient that can be locked up and drugged against their will at any time does not have the autonomy and power to provide consent. If someone physically harms someone else to get them to do something and threatens to do it again unless that person abides by their dictations there is no consent if the harmed individual does what the abuser says in the future. This is especially true when the abuser is backed by the government because the victim has little to no recourse or ability to fight.
    The horror of forced treatment touches all because it makes all treatment coerced. How many people take psych drugs or go to therapy because they in part fear being forcibly hospitalized? One is too many, and there are many.

  • “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” -Jiddu krishnamurti

    @Steve M.
    It is common for groups to sit and do nothing when someone else is bullied. The authorities will often proclaim they don’t care who started it and will punish both people when the victim fights back. For whatever reasons many people blame the victim and identify toughness and righteousness with the perpetrator. The bully humiliates their victim and that humiliation makes the victim appear unlikable to others. In our society people’s circumstances are blamed on themselves. In another forum certain people would harass a certain commenter. When i pointed out this behavior other people would attack me for “stirring up shit and derailing the conversation.” I was eventually banned for calling out bullying.

    Abusive people gain their power by getting bystanders to identify with them, and to dislike the victims. Psychiatry utilizes the same strategy by proclaiming that it’s all the fault of “defective brains” that make people so dangerous they need less rights than criminals. A reason psychiatry flourishes is because it gives everyone involved a scapegoat. A scapegoat that appears unlikable because of the abuse constantly heaped on them.

  • The Soviets had a similar “mental health” system as our current American one. In the Soviet Union psychotic and delusional people who openly opposed the Soviet “Utopia” were fixed and treated with neuroleptic drugs. The American system is more subtle where those who don’t appear happy, productive and properly sociable under the American “utopia” are fixed and treated with the same drugs.

    Neoliberalism is influenced by the Protestant Prosperity gospel which started in Europe. The prosperity Gospel basically states that the rich are blessed by god and the suffering masses are sinners being punished by God.

  • It is a chicken and egg type situation. Psychiatry in part prevents society from solving issues such as poverty, pollution, discrimination and so on. It does this by labeling those who are suffering as “mentally ill”. The result is that poverty isn’t viewed as the problem, it is the impoverished people’s defective brains that needs “fixed”. A common comment on the topic of homelessness is that homeless people are “mentally ill”. What this comment does is transform the problem from a lack of housing to defective brains. A lack of housing is solved by providing housing; “mental illness” is “solved” with drugs and electrocutions of gray/white matter.

  • I can’t speak for anyone else but it may in part be a strategy in order to get people to consider the discussion and look at the evidence. The common response from people if you go and present science research showing psych drugs have no benefits is being bombarded with insults. People won’t even look at the evidence or consider entering a discussion unless you give enough lip service to their mass willful ignorance.

    I’m not sure this lip service is at all effective but I understand people utilizing it. I tried various forms of changing how I presented the science in order to get people to objectively look at it. I’m now of the opinion that it has little to do with how it’s presented and more to do with people’s inability to admit they are wrong and have caused harm.

  • When I first heard one of my friends committed suicide it was hard. Later I discovered the research on how every major psych drug more than doubles suicides, and how they cause akathisia which my friend had. I cried daily for two weeks, racked with guilt that I hadn’t discovered the research earlier and saved him.

    I proceeded to go around mental health forums posting the research as a form of catharsis. Many people were helped including myself but for the most part the responses were insults, lies and logical fallacies followed by censorship. Turns out being pro-science to most people is defined as ignoring the evidence and covering up with illogical assumptions. Many people also view it as stigmatizing if you do not tell people they are mentally defective. It is a brave new world, drugs, conditioning, biological classes and all.

  • But there isn’t evidence neuroleptics have even short term benefits for psychosis. Studies claim so do so by claiming withdrawal means the drugs are good, or that sedating and disabling someone is a “benefit”. Those who want to claim disabling and drugging some one into a coma like state is a good thing, need to be up front that their idea of a benefit is social control and silencing people.

  • It’s not that thinking is bad relative to feeling it is that essentially they are the same thing with different labels. There is little structural different between “I think this will cause harm” vrs “I feel this will cause harm” The major difference between the two is that “feeling” is considered less of an absolute truth. It is less likely to close the mind for this reason. Thinking contains all the biases that are present in feeling without the opened mindedness that comes from what is implied when something is labeled as a feeling.

    Labels have the power to direct the discussion. Psychiatry understands this power when they label their drugs and electrocutions as “evidence” or “science” based. They are pretending their motivated feelings are factual thoughts because doing so shuts down critical analysis, and further discussion. Labeling something as thinking over feeling does the same thing. It presumes it is objectively based and accurate. It is harder to discover the truth or correct an error when the false and inaccurate concept is attached to objectivity.

  • Anyone in the health field who says something negative about psychiatry is putting their money where their mouth is. People get fired for doing so. Peter Gøtzsche the author of the post/book chapter was fired from the Cochrane Institute because of it. He’s been slandered as a result of him pointing out that the science shows psychiatry only causes damage. He has spent almost a decade writing about the dangers and lack of benefits from psychiatry. I’m not sure what else he could do.

  • A major effect of Psychiatry is to blame the struggles of life, and societies atrocities on those struggling and their “defective brains”. Psychiatry hinders the ability to improve society, provide real support, and reduce poverty because it blames those things on their victims. Correcting the lies of psychiatry aids in improving everything else. It is stupid and infuriating but our society operates on authority. Mental health professionals have some of it when it comes to mental health. Therefore, I’d argue they are most effective correcting harmful lies in the area they have some authority in.

  • What we see as a bug others see as a feature. Besides selling drugs and giving psychiatrists the mirage of being real doctors, blaming “chemical imbalances” provides a scapegoat. One where those pointing out the fabrication of chemical imbalances can be waved off as “shamming genetically/mentally/biologically ill people.” It’s a brave new world where labeling someone as inherently defective to get them to take deadly addicting drugs is considered supporting them.

  • American conservatives throw around a phrase called “virtue signaling” Essentially it means doing something that doesn’t actually help but makes it appear you are being helpful and are a good person so you can assuage the guilt of not taking any substantial actions. That is what psych is about; allowing people to appear helpful so they won’t feel guilty. Allowing people to blame a mythical “chemical imbalance” so they don’t have to change horrible aspects of society. Allowing people to say “go get therapy” so they won’t feel bad about refusing to listen and provide social support.

  • Intelligence and education has several double edge sword aspects. The more “intelligent” someone is the easier it can be for them to come up with convincing lies and bullshit to support their original opinion. If their original opinion occurred because the “expert” educators who they paid $100,000 said so this will more likely to occur. It doesn’t feel good to realize 4-8 years of education and money was essentially just you buying a snake oil sales slot.

    Getting a high level of education can have the effect of increasing arrogance, particularly when that education is in a field that is hero worshiped such as the medical one. When a psychiatrist says someone lacks insight/is stupid for not agreeing with them a contributing factor to this response is their inflated ego. “How dare this loser question me!”

    Intelligence and education can have disastrous results if the person never learned how to spot and avoid logical fallacies and has replaced an open mind/modesty with a sense of hero like self importance/righteousness. Though malice is a factor as well. The problem with society today is that the most likely response if you show some one a bunch of research and facts that oppose their opinion will be logical fallacies, and unsupported claims for why the research can be completely ignored.

  • Turns out most people when confronted with the fact the drugs they lied and said were safe and effective caused permanent damage and daily pain prefer to keep lying and handing out those drugs. It is easier to do this if you insult anyone pointing it out and blindly claim your victims lack insight because their brains are ill. Their censorship, invective and crocodile self righteousness comes from the weakness of their position.

  • There’s good reason why people harmed by psychiatry tend to avoid doctors, and medical establishments. 1) Psych labels cause a large increase in medical errors for those labeled. 2) A “respected medical group” causes massive harm which is proved by the research and society doesn’t care. It is a standard defense strategy to become skeptical and distrusting, of those who not only ignore the suffering done to you but perpetuate it on others. 3) In psych physical, health and other complaints are considered signs of “mental illness.” For minor issues it might not be worth it to go tell them to a doctor who might proclaim they are because you’re mentally ill and should take some psych drugs.

    You pointed out how disrespectful it is to not ask someone why they are upset and just assume they have a biological problem. I agree, however I think another scenario can be even more wrong. Patient: “I feel sad, fearful and can’t sleep because (insert any horrid thing occurring in life)”
    Doctor: “Oh, well you feel that way because your brain is defective. Here are some deadly addicting drugs to fix you.”
    I wonder if a lot of people do not share what is upsetting them because they don’t want to be further insulted and blamed for their emotional response to horrible shit. The major result either way will be a psych label, and drugs. This would also apply to sharing with family and friends.
    “Hey, mom/dad when you insults me it makes me unhappy.”
    “Son did you take your drugs? You know you lack insight and this is just your illness.”
    In practice one effect of psychiatry is to silence people. To stop them from complaining. Interestingly psych mental illness scales consider complaints to be a sigh of illness that needs to be eradicated with drugs. In the HAM depression scale someone no longer complaining is considered to have had a larger improvement then the total drug improvement in the most pro-drug biased short term studies. Flat out psych says that in effect silencing someone is a good thing.

  • In practice one effect of the false biological brain defective cause of mental illness is to remove blame from parents, the environment and society. Some of the most fanatic pro-psych people are parents precisely because psych tells them they aren’t at all to blame and instead it’s their child’s defective brain that is the problem. Then they pressure and force their kids to take the drugs because those in authority tell them they should. They blindly accept that their kids lack insight and therefore insist they keep taking the drugs.
    When they see that the long term research finds the drugs only make things worse they have two choices, denial and continuing course, or accepting that their questionable actions caused harm.

    It reminds me of how gangs initiate new members by having them commit a crime. It’s the sunk loss fallacy in action. In order to get out you have to confront, accept, and deal with the consequences of what you did. It’s much “easier” to deny it, and pretend you’re a self righteous victim of anti-psych science deniers shamming you. It is much easier to do that if you hurl insults at the messenger. It might be easier for people to reject psych if the blame can be transferred to the lying psychiatrists. If they can come to know that guilt doesn’t go away when it is denied. It only ends when it’s is dealt with and atoned for. Alas I’m not sure how to facilitate that.

  • Serotonin drugs do and can cause akathisia. Benzos in the short term mask akathisia by causing sedation, however in the long term they all cause akathisia. Akathisia can easily be mistook for anxiety. The “treatment” for anxiety includes benzos, or neuroleptics which cause and worsen akathisia in the long term. Turns out treating the effects of one deadly addicting drug with zero long term benefits in any study with another addicting deadly drug with zero long term benefits is a recipe for disaster.

  • First he took serotonin drugs, they didn’t actually help so he took benzos, they didn’t work so he took ketamine. When the first serotonin drug was approved the clinical trials also gave out benzos. This was done because serotonin drugs cause anxiety, agitation, irritability, and sleep problems. People mindlessly assume chemical altering drugs can’t have negative effects because those selling the drugs say so. The result is those effects are considered their illness and require more drugs. Those new drugs cause negative effects which are again assumed to be an illness that requires more drugs. Round and round the person goes until they are drugged to death, stop complaining, or decide to taper off the drugs. If they tell people they are quitting, withdrawal is falsely claimed to be their illness returning and they are pressured and sometimes forced to take the drugs.

    Another missed opportunity was Peterson not elaborating that his later problems where caused because he kept taking more deadly illness causing drugs to address the effects of the current deadly drugs he was addicted to.

  • How can one be completely included in society when society views you as mentally/biologically defective based on your suffering? Those labeled mentally defective are by definition separate from “normal” people. Racists assume blacks/minorities are genetically inferior just like psychiatry assumes those who suffer are. Can a black person be completely included amongst racists who fanatically believe the black person is inherently inferior? If not why would it differ for other groups claimed without evidence to be genetically inferior?

    Mentally ill labeled people can be jailed (hospitalized) and forcibly drugged without a trial, defense or the committing of a crime. Society has made them second class citizens with less rights than violent criminals. It is not surprising that people in that group aren’t included and struggle socially.

    According to psychiatry those with mental illness lack insight. Put more bluntly this means mentally ill people are too stupid to comprehend and know anything. They can’t even know if a chemically altering deadly brain damaging drug makes them feel worse or not. How does one have a meaningful relationship with someone who automatically assumes what you feel and say is wrong because a questionnaire resembling a vapid Facebook quiz finds you suffer?

    Social relationships are a two way street. Psychiatry convinces families and friends that they need to hide and avoid having meaningful discussion with mentally ill labeled people because it will upset them. There’s lots of academic discussion about how social media is detrimental to mental well being because posters only choose to post the good in their life. This occurs with mentally ill labeled people because others refuse to share the negative aspects of their lives with them.

    Psychiatry has convinced society that being a good family member and friend consists of making sure those labeled mentally ill are taking drugs, and going to therapy to be reminded that they are mentally defective (all forms of “therapy” where your thinking is claimed to be wrong and the cause of your suffering so let’s correct it take this route to some extent). When you yourself and/or others are told and believe you are defective it will cause social anxiety and a desire for isolation. Therapy then tells you your thinking is wrong and stupid and needs fixing. A reason therapy has little to no recorded long term benefits in quality studies is because it mostly reinforces a major cause of the anxiety.

    For those who are labeled mentally ill is a bit difficult if not near impossible to be fully included in the community, and have deep meaningful social relationships with people who mindlessly accept psychiatry.

  • They already have deadly drugs for painful psych drug induced diseases such as tardive dyskinesia, and Akinithsia. These drugs work in the same way psych drugs work. Drug companies did short term studies loaded with pro-drug biases such as the placebo group being in withdrawal, the drug group being unblinded, multiple instances of cherry picking, and hiding of negative effects/data. The drugs marketed for TD cause sedation, and cognitive impairment which psychiatrists pretend helps so they can avoid their guilt. Though there is a good argument that the purpose is to sedate and impaire people so that “normies” don’t have to deal with them. Just like psych drugs long term studies find these drugs have no benefits. In fact cogenten maintenance does worse than cogenten withdrawal. Yet the deadly dementia causing drug is still given.
    Psychiatry resembles an opioid or alcohol addiction taking meth. It gives out one deadly addicting drug with zero long term benefits and then hands out another deadly drug that has opposite effects because the first caused harm. Any serotonin or stimulant with a neuroleptic, benzo, or other sedating drug is an example.

  • Psych doesn’t just ignore any personal experiences that disagree with their interests, they flat out insult, stigmatize, and forcibly drug/hospitalize those whose experiences don’t fit with their dogma. Anyone who has a psych label should be aware that a common response if people know they do not take psych drugs will be increased stigmatization, insults, and blame. They will be pressured and/or harassed if they don’t take them drugs. If they refuse anything bad that occurs will be blamed on their refusal to use the drugs.

  • According to psychiatric measurements of psychosis (PANSS) you disagreeing with psychiatry so adamantly, and being so hostile towards psychiatrists means you are psychotic and need to take neuroleptic drugs to fix your defective brain. Since you are mentally ill you are dangerous and they can with the aid of the police throw you in a hospital and force the drugs on you.
    Psych supporters flat out say that It is very stigmatizing if we do not tell people they are genetically/biologically/mentally defective and are second class citizens. Psychiatry is working very hard to reduce discrimination and stigmatization by insulting and drugging more and more people.

  • In science studies done by people selling tobacco, people who have been taking tobacco for decades and quit have higher cancer rates than those who keep using the medication. There are more cancer deaths in tobacco deficient people during years when they do not take tobacco*. Tobacco reduces cancer deaths.

    *I’m going to end my snark and explain this. There are psych drug studies where they claim someone who takes the drugs for years-decades and quits counts as “non drug.” In these studies someone taking the drug from age 25-45 counts as 0 deaths on drugs over 20 years. If they quit because the drug caused heart disease and they then die from a heart attack 2 years after quitting it counts as 1 death off drugs over 2 years. The drugs can now be falsely claimed to save lives and extend lifespan!
    This fallacy is called the healthy user bias. People in poorer health or who are hurt more by the drugs are more likely to quit the drugs. Contrary to what psych says the people quitting do so mostly because they have not improved or the drugs caused harm.

  • The measurements used in psych studies to determine “improvement” are subjective personal reports not only from the users but the psychiatrists making money off the drugs.

    In depression scales used for psych drug studies a person gaining weight has achieved more benefit than people taking the drug. The psychiatrist reporting the person fidgets less has achieved more benefit than those taking the drug.

    It is also interesting how many of the measurements consist of how much the person complains. In essence if the drug silences someone by causing mental decline psychiatry considers it a benefit.

  • The opioid crisis is very similar to psych drugs. The drug companies hid negative data, they lied about the drugs being addicting, they paid doctors to push the drugs, their “effectiveness” came exclusively from short term data, people who pointed out negative effects were sidelined/insulted, the drugs were given out like Halloween candy, non drug treatments were ignored, and so on. A major difference is that psych drugs kill more people.

    It might be effective when telling people about how psych drugs are a massive net harm to remind them of how the opioid madness went.

  • When a psychiatrists says you have a chemical imbalance and an illness it is a euphemism. What they really mean is, “I want status, money and won’t admit the harm I cause so I am going to give you drugs that cause a chemical imbalance, damage the body and brain and of which give you an illness.” It is the sunk loss fallacy. In order to stop harming hundreds of millions of people they’d have to admit their whole adult life consisted of lying and hurting people. In America alone psych drugs kill a rough estimated 500,000 people a year (neuroleptic increase death rates by 200-300%, serotonin drugs by 50%, stimulants by 75% and bensons by 60%).

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28903117/
    (SSRI increase mortality by 49%, stimulants by 75%, older lesser used drugs are less deadly than then more commonly used newer ones)

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16449697/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888674/pdf/CPN2013-247486.pdf
    (Neuroleptic increase mortality by 200-300% in all groups)

    https://www.bmj.com/content/358/bmj.j2941
    (Bensons increase mortality rates by 9% over similar people who take serotonin drugs)

  • If you are tired, unproductive, and/or sad you have a tobacco deficiency in your brain. This is scientific fact because tobacco deficiencies cause lethargy, poor, productivity and sadness. Let’s put you on Camel cigarettes which are evidence based to improve your life. They are non-addicting, anyone saying otherwise is a toxic nutcase and should be cut out of your life. It takes 6 weeks of daily use to receive benefits. If Camel cigarettes don’t work fully we will switch and try Marborlo tobacco for 6 weeks. If that doesn’t fully restore your mood or if you get anxious and have trouble sleeping we will maintain the cigarettes and add another medication called alcohol. Now pay me $200 for the visit, another $500 for the drugs, and come back in a month for another $200 15 minute visit.

  • Neuroleptic drugs were originally reported as “good” because they caused sedation, and made the crazies easier to handle/control. Stimulants are helpful by definition because they get kids to sit down and shut up.

    In psych drug measurements complaining about drug effects, health, and so on is a sign of illness and requires more drugs.

    The fact that psychiatry in whole causes people to socially isolate, avoid the medical system, reduce socialization, and become stigmatized is a feature not a bug. Just like how they describe brain damage from the drugs and electrocution as “healing”. It’s healing in the sense that the patient is less capable to complain and can be ignored.

  • “People who use deadly addicting drugs need help. We need to insult them by dishonestly saying they are biologically defective in order to sell them our own deadly addicting drugs.” -Psychiatry

    The most commonly used drugs for depression increase all cause mortality by about 50%. Stimulants given to kids for not enjoying school increase death by 75%. Those are the “safer” psych drugs. It is safer to be a heavy alcohol drinker than taking one psych drug. Though of course that is what the research says and going by what the research says makes one anti-science according to psych supporters.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28903117/

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109717379986

  • Many people subjected to psych hospitalization become paranoid. I can’t imagine why someone who is monitored all day, insulted (all mental illness labels are insults), threatened with forced drugging and jailing (this is always a threat because it can and is done) and lied to over and over by psychiatry would make someone paranoid. Though technically they aren’t paranoid they have insight and recognize people are out to get them. In fact, they already got them.

  • It doesn’t occur to people that taking a kid to a “professional” and telling the kid it is because they are “mentally/biologically defective” is counter productive. Fake it till you make it, or this case society tells you what you are and makes it.

    When what someone needs is social support, connection, and relationships doing the above is providing the opposite. Our society now considers telling people, “seek professional help, and take drugs because you’re ill/defective” as being a good friend/family member.

    It Doesn’t feel good when the response to sharing your suffering is a bunch of insults. Feels worse when you’re guilted because you have decided deadly drugs and $200 talk sessions where you’re told your thinking is stupid isn’t a beneficial use of your life.

  • We have to forcibly jail all people with athletes foot. Tell them they are dangerous and defective. Later when their lives aren’t up to par it will prove that they are dangerous and defective.

    In physics observing a particle changes the particle. Jail, drugging, and slandering someone as defective is a touch more than observing. Psych is a self fulfilling prophecy. Where the proclamations aren’t predicting the future they are creating it.

  • When Psych studies claim a group with a psych label is “drug free” what they mean is the person was once addicted to the drugs but at the current date is no longer taking them. These studies claim someone who is in the middle of withdrawal is “drug free” and therefore all differences are caused by the “illness”. Some will claim someone who took the drugs for decades and has been off them for a few months is “drug free”.

    Tobacco companies should have tried this dishonesty. “See the person in tobacco withdraw has all these negative effects and when they smoke some tobacco it relieves their illness. Tobacco is a medicine. Furthermore 6 week studies show tobacco is entirely safe, improves mood, energy, and productivity. Anyone saying tobacco is bad is stigmatizing people with tobacco deficiencies and is anti-science.”

  • The HAM D depression scale used in psych drug research considerers weight gain a benefit. Gaining weight on the drug in psych studies provides a 2 point benefit. This is a larger benefit than the the benefit caused by serotonin drugs in the most pro-drug biased studies. Eating McDonald’s every day will produce a larger antidepressant effect than all psych drugs according to psychiatries depression ratings. These studies also operate by taking people addicted to the drugs and claiming withdrawal is a placebo group. Essentially negative effects of psych drugs are falsely labeled as good things. Neuroleptics are claimed to be good because they sedate, impair, and cause disabling brain damage.

  • Getting a psych “diagnosis” means any and all things can now be blamed on the “mental biological defect.” According to Psych questionnaires used to determine “mental illness” complaints about health and the body are considered to be caused by the “mental illness”. Psych’s stated solution to someone saying they have physical pain or problems is to give them more psych drugs. This is party why getting a psych label doubles someone’s chance of receiving a medical error.

    Not only do physical things get blamed but environmental factors as well. There was a Facebook post of an aunt saying how her niece inherited depression like her. The aunt said this because her niece was feeling sad because her mom was spanking and yelling at her.

    The most insidious part is that the effects of the drugs get blamed on the anti-science fake illness. People don’t start with a biological abnormality but when they get drugged all day with chemical altering addicting drugs they now have a biological abnormality. Addicting and withdrawal means they have that abnormality for months and months after quitting the drugs. In long term studies psych drugs worsen the symptoms they are claimed to treat. Almost all stereotypes about people with “mental illness” can be attributed to the drugs. Drooling, abnormal movements, cognitive impairment, lethargy, early death, physical illness, tobacco and other recreational and brain damage are things caused by neuroleptic drugs. Yet the drugs don’t get blamed for this the person does and if you point this out what the research actually says you get insulted for shamming people.

    https://bmcfampract.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s12875-020-1087-4.pdf

  • Being a “psych survivor” is by definition a product of psychiatric oppression. Psych survivors have survived the regime that at times forcibly drugged, jailed, and electrocuted them. Without psychiatry declaring that a group of people are genetically inferior and therefore are second class citizens who lose their rights, wealth and life there would be no psych survivors.
    Taking the increased death rate from psych drugs psychiatry kills in America alone half a million people a year.
    I’m not sure why the term “psych survivor” is a counter productive and negative term. I don’t know if I would be able to connect and agree that the term shouldn’t be used. But Given when it comes to many opinions I reside in the minority your best argument against using the term “psych survivor” might be very convincing.

  • Serotonin drugs cause cognitive impairment(1), double dementia (2)
    and cause emotional impairment(3). Of course to those selling the drugs and whose social status depends on view that the drug users are biologically defective and “lack insight (also known as lack intelligence)” these negative drug effects appear as a feature and not a bug. The drugs causing withdrawal that can last a year plus is another feature because as all sober former drug addicts know, withdrawal is experienced as the drug being a good thing.

    (1) https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(15)00077-7/pdf
    (2) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6079596/
    (3) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0496-4

  • Loneliness you’re what I have left
    A soothing from giving up nutrition
    When what I need is social connection
    Hearing “get help” tells of social death
    How do I get from ghost back to life?

    Self esteem is fantasy I now ignore
    Crying is better than hitting the ground
    When what I need is some love found
    Hearing “take drugs” to kill that of you
    Reminds me I have no value anymore

    On the two way street of communication
    My side is quarantined for your safety
    Everything coming out is an infection
    The cure is to label it all crazy
    But it’s me triaged and stomped out

  • Psychiatry at some level recognizes the power of projection in a society that forms its opinions on logical fallacies. Every psychiatric response to “Anatomy of an epidemic” and pro-psychiatry people I’ve talked to vomit out projection. I’m not sure what the most effective response to projection and insults is. It’s difficult to get a large sample size to test strategies because pretty much all psychiatry message boards and forums ban anyone who opposes the psych religion.

  • One psychiatrist who wrote an online response to An anatomy of an epidemic stated it would be unethical to do a study to find the long term effects of psych drugs. I’ve seen this response other times as well where people proclaim it would be unethical to do a study to see what the long term effects of addicting deadly drugs are.
    Psychiatrist do the opposite of informed consent. They outright lie because in public they say their victims lack insight and are so dangerous they need less rights than criminals. Informed consent to them is unethical because then people will more likely recognize drug harm and won’t buy the drugs.
    For psychiatry the ethic is, “First gain status and money by doing harm.”

  • People and society at some level recognize what psychiatry is. When someone who is in an argument responds with “seek help” “you must be off your drugs” or “you’re mentally ill” they recognize that’s psychiatries purpose in practice is to silence, and stigmatize people. Psychiatries stated position that all those they label “lack insight” and are therefore too stupid and insane to know anything is essentially psychiatry covering up and causing abuse. One reason people who get mental illness labels are more likely to have a crime committed against them is because psychiatry has effectively made is so they are not listened to.

  • The culture of a place in part creates the individuals. We are not born with knowledge, it is taught from day one. Our society teaches that abusive behavior is not only acceptable but it’s what is expected. The vast majority of people can’t reject authority, popularity, and what they grew up with. In a sense non abusive people are abnormal; they found some way to overcome their environment and become something moral.

  • Bad people can do good things. Likewise unsupportive people can in some ways at some times provide some social/emotional support. Cruel people can become crueler especially if you don’t obey them. This is why I think so many people do not tell others they have quit psych drugs. You can’t be harassed, insulted and attacked for doing something people don’t know you did.
    This type of support network isn’t healthy or beneficial emotionally. However, when it is all you have it’s not clear if leaving would be better. It is just like the abused* homemaker who if they left would end up homeless, hungry, and cold.

    *If someone giving someone brain damage is abuse than in order to avoid cognitive dissonance forcing or giving someone psych drugs is also abuse.

  • It’s not just men who are sexist. Society teaches that sexism is how things should be. Those who don’t follow this are bullied. As a result even some (many?) women have internalized sexism as acceptable. I was dumbfounded in 2016 when I heard several educated women sayings things such as, “I don’t want a women president.”

    When I tell people with “mental illness” labels they are not biologically defective, or that the drugs increase violence, decrease cognitive functioning, and have other negative effects a common response is something along the lines of “you’re shaming/stigmatizing me.” I’m not sure I want to even try to publicly hypothesize what causes this response.

    Another common response is to assume I am “mentally ill” and ad hominem that I inherently lack insight. I have also been told in the same conversation where I was ad hominem as “mentally ill” that since my comments are coherent I can’t be “mentally ill” and therefore lack insight.

  • Good points. They claim the drugs they are selling are evidence based to help the new “patient” while simultaneously telling the old patient they need to try a 4th drug because the disease is so different we can’t know which drug will help who. Trial and erroring 4+ addicting deadly drugs on people while claiming the drugs work and are needed for life sounds like cognitive dissonance to me. Of course they don’t give the informed consent about withdrawal and instead pretend withdraw from addicting drugs is proof the drugs are good.

    Oldheads court comment reminded me how psychiatry the ones whose income, moral and social status depend on the drugs get to be the expert witness, judge, and jury. The defendant, accused of maiming/disabling/killing millions is the authority and everyone disagreeing with the defendant is called crazy or worse.

  • When psychiatry says their drugs are evidence based what they mean is “short term, cherry picked, unblinded (drug effects unblind participants), withdraw (the placebo group is put through drug withdrawal) studies from people selling the drugs find a small improvement on our subjective questionnaire.”

    Serotonin studies find 1 in 5 or 7 people will experience a short term drug benefit in these studies equivalent to them now agreeing that they are ill, or they gained weight, or they fidget less. Each of those three things equals a 2 point improvement. The typical drug benefit in the most pro-drug biased and flawed studies is a 1.5 point improvement.

    Using the evidence base psychiatry uses we could claim tobacco and alcohol are safe and effective medicines. 6 week studies show tobacco is safe, relieves stress, and provides energy. Alcohol withdraw studies show alcohol saves lives and reduces anxiety.

    Any research showing the medicines long term cause harm is clearly fraudulent. We all know that people who quit alcohol do so because they are less ill than those who stayed on. People don’t quit alcohol because it has negative effects because it has none.

    They quit the medicine because they are less ill and that is why they have better outcomes. Though clearly those quitting lack insight and are stupid because they are mentally ill. Anyone saying otherwise is shamming and stigmatizing sick people and they need to be censored for the good of society. (I understand how absurd my last several paragraph are but it is absurd precisely because it is repeating what psychiatry says).

  • The article mentions how shootings are tied to anger and resentment. A good way to make someone angry and resentful is to forcibly hospitalize (jail) and drug them. Giving them less rights than criminals because a 5 minute questionnaire similar to internet spam quizzes says they are mentally defective will further cause anger and resentment. The social stigmatization from being labeled a mental defect who is considered dangerous is fuel to the fire. Any complaints they have are met with “seek help and take drugs”. These drugs cause irritability, agitation, anxiety, and suicide/violence (serotonin drugs which are widely considered the safe psych drug increase suicide and violent behavior by 250%) meaning they are like bathing the wood stove in gasoline.

    My favorite is when people claim drugs need to be forced because someone in withdrawal from the drugs does something violent. Alcohol companies should try it. “We took alcoholics and withdrew them and they became irritable, anxious, more aggressive and some died. Alcohol is a medicine that corrects a chemical imbalance. Anyone Saying alcohol has negative effects is shaming sick people and needs to be socially shunned.”

  • For some reason my web browser wouldn’t open the legislation text. My concern is how do you enforce informed consent and is the informed consent actually informed consent. Psychiatrists can just say, “benzos can have negative cognitive, physical and mental effects but you have a disease like diabetes. Your chemical imbalance means this drug is evidence based.”

    The idea that a group who has been lying about the drugs they sell for decades will actually provide real informed consent by themselves sounds naive. Serotonin drugs have had a black box warning that they increase suicide for over a decade. Telling people this black box warning hasn’t worked because psychiatry surrounds the warning with dishonesty about how the drug fixes an imbalance, is needed and you’ll be sick forever if you don’t take it. It is similar to a 12 page user agreement pretending that hiding something in obscure language on page 8 paragraph 3 means people understand it.

  • Our society stigmatizes, and harasses people who don’t follow “normal” standards. A large part of it is you need to follow authority. If you don’t you get targeted. For me the hardest part of trying to quit psych drugs wasn’t the withdrawal. It was the the responses of the people around me. Constantly being told to take the drugs, being disrespected and borderline harassed because my choices didn’t include taking drugs made me miserable. I had quit and was doing the best I had been doing in years. The response from others was I “lacked insight” and needed to be treated more like a dog.
    I wonder if the major reason people struggle to quit psych drugs is that revealing they are doing so causes the opposite of social support. It creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. Those in authority tell a prophecy that quitting the drugs will cause a crisis. The social response to the prophecy helps cause it to happen.
    When people’s definition of support is to say “get help,” “take deadly addicting drugs”, “you lack insight because you’re mentally defective” “I’m calling the cops to forcibly hospitalize you” you really don’t have any support, you have the opposite.

  • Being a psych survivor (as in someone who has been harmed by psychiatry and recognizes that harm) manufactures “paranoia.” Psychiatry by definition lies in order to gain social status and wealth by harming other people. Chemical imbalances were disproven decades ago. Long term studies show massive harm and no benefits (there isn’t a single study that when read in full shows benefits from psychiatric drugs or shock). They have more power than cops and those they label have less rights than criminals. Mental health Internet forums regularly have posts along the lines of “how can I get my (family member/friend) to take psych drugs.” Suggestions range from injections, harassment, withdrawing support, and even rufying drugs in food.

    A common adage is “it’s not paranoia if they really are out to get you.” Psych survivors beat that. It’s not paranoia when they already got me and hundreds of millions of people and are getting more everyday with social wide support. Conveniently for psychiatry lacking trust, disagreeing with psychiatry, and not taking drugs are expressions of mentally illness that needs treating with drugs.

  • Psychiatry and especially psych hospitals practice almost every technique used by cults and emotional manipulators.
    control the environment
    Isolate their marks
    Create a system of rewards and punishments (praise, forced hospitalization)
    Create a sense of fear, dependency (drug addiction) and powerlessness
    Have a charismatic leader (psychiatrists) to be obeyed at all times.
    No outsiders or anyone disagree can be listened to and instead need to be attacked.

    They gather information on you and use it against you.
    They intellectually bully people (every time they say someone lacks insight or use appeal to authority)
    They are dishonest.
    Any complaints are their mentally defective patients fault and need to be addressed by drugging them.
    They act like martyrs
    They neo not take responsibility for the harms their drugs and shock and stigmatizing do. In fact they blame all that on their patients and people who oppose psychiatry.
    They use your feelings, and insecurities against you.
    They guilt trip you.
    They cause you to question your own sanity.

    They are near perfect examples of how emotional manipulators and cults operate.

    https://aeon.co/essays/how-cult-leaders-brainwash-followers-for-total-control

    https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/emotional-manipulation#home-court-advantage

  • According to psychiatry If a “mental patient” disagrees with psychiatry it is a symptom of their illness and requires more shock or drugs. If a mental patient reports and complains about a drug effect it is also a symptom of their mental illness and requires more drug. That’s why people are on both a tranquilizer or sedative and a stimulant type drug. One way to survive in psychiatry is to lie and say you are doing great. Otherwise you get more drugs and shocks. Interesting how it conditions people to silence and social withdrawal. Though given many early psych drug case reports remark how the patient becomes docile, sedated and cooperative, silencing people seems to be a feature instead of a bug.

  • According to psychiatry “mentally ill” people have defective brains and are so dangerous they need less rights than criminals. They lack insight and are too stupid to know what’s good. Psychiatry questionnaires used in their “research” consider complaints as signs of mental illness. It isn’t not surprising psychiatrists are not mortified at subhuman treatment towards. They flat out say their “patients” are less human than criminals and are so defective their complaints are just symptoms of their “mental illness”. Psychiatry does wonder why there is so much stigma and discrimination and hope to solve it by informing more people that they are mentally defective and need electroshock/drugs.

  • In psychiatry when the first SSRI doesn’t work they try a second. If that doesn’t work they try a SNRI, then they try another. The end result is a serotonin addiction. Trying to quit results in withdrawal which psych manipulates people into thinking means the drugs are good and needed. A neuroleptic drug (which blocks serotonin and dopamine) is added to the serotonin drug. This occurs because the serotonin drug doesn’t help but does cause mania, psychosis, agitation and other negative effects. When the first neuroleptic doesn’t help, a second and or third are tried. When these drugs result in Tardive dyskinesia or akininsia another deadly addicting drug with no scientific long term benefits is added.

    To you this appears to be insanity that doesn’t work. But to the people getting rich and gaining social status by stigmatizing others it is “working”. Those with power also see it as working since now all the faults of society can be falsely blamed on diseased people having poor genetics and biology.

  • This resembles the Army General adage of “the beatings will continue until morale improves.”

    Someone is suffering because they are poor. Psychiatrists “solution” is to take their money and sell them disabling drugs.
    Someone is suffering because they have low social status, few future prospects and few social connections. Psychiatrists solution is to stigmatize them as dangerous uncontrollable mental defects who need deadly drugs that cause cognitive dysfunction.
    A kid doesn’t like school. A k I’d likes school and struggle with online learning. Solution is a stigmatization and a stimulant addiction. When you think of happy high functioning people is your first thought people who been addicted to meth since childhood? Oh, wait if a child scores high on a subjective tabloid questionnaire they are actually helped by meth. That is science!

    If Tobacco had gone the psych route tobacco would be a safe and effective medicine. 6 week studies would find tobacco is safe, increase productivity and relieves stress. Withdrawal studies would find people suffering from nicotine imbalances suffer without tobacco. Tobacco users having 20 year shorter lifespans would prove they have a chemical imbalance and need tobacco. Brain studies would find tobacco addicts have differences and those differences would be the underlying mental defect.

  • If a kid doesn’t like school they need dopamine stimulants such as meth.

    If a kid likes school and struggles with it’s closure they need dopamine stimulants such as meth.

    If an adult hates their job and hates cleaning the house they need dopamine stimulants such as meth.

    If an adult is too enthusiastic/energetic about their job they need dopamine stimulants such as meth.

    If people refuse the drugs they are claimed to be mentally defective and stupid and forced to take the drugs.

    It’s A Brave New world where every problem is “solved” by drugging people.

    Though if someone takes dopamine stimulants like meth for fun everyone yells that they are destroying their life. They then get jailed in a counterproductive attempt to force them to stop taking the drugs.

    What a society…

  • The people interviewed expressed the most discomfort with the content being posted by other people. I wonder if they know that Facebook shows them that content because Facebook believes doing so increases clicks and profit.

    Most the reasons given for using Facebook can be simplified to “because everyone else uses it.” Your work uses it so you do. You connect with people from grade school because everyone uses it and therefore those people are on Facebook. Other people only send invites to activities via Facebook so you use Facebook to get the invites. This isn’t necessary a bad thing but it is interesting because it has nothing to do with the quality of services but instead their popularity.

    There are some social benefits that can occur from Facebook. However like it’s name suggests, when it comes to socialization Facebook is a book without the substance.

  • The Pfizer vaccine study was two months in length. There is zero long term data and zero mid term data. Zero. The study recorded negative effects and adverse everts via self reporting. Self reported data according to the CDC can undercount negative effects by a factor of up to 100. The study did not test for negative health effects.
    74% of those who got the vaccine reported pain at least 7 days after the injection.
    36% reported fatigue
    15% reported an adverse event
    .84% of those who got the placebo got Covid. That is correct less than 1% on placebo got Covid.

    This data is entirely from a corporation selling the vaccine. A corporation that has been fined billions for fraud and that currently sells several deadly drugs with zero benefits.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

  • Neuroleptic mortality studies find these drugs take 15-25 years off a persons lifespan. Non “mentally ill” users experience similar increased death rates. These studies find that deaths from infectious diseases are around 2 times higher in those using neuroleptic drugs because of the drugs.

    If someone cares about saving human life from infectious diseases they’d want to first reduce neuroleptic drug use.

    Studies claiming people with psych labels have worse immune systems are flawed studies because they assume the deadly addicting drugs are not the cause. Other numerous studies that abide more by the scientific method find the drugs are the culprit.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888674/pdf/CPN2013-247486.pdf

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16449697/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6159703/pdf/adr-2-adr170042.pdf

  • Right essential their response is, “we don’t say there is a chemical imbalance because we say there is a biological defect and stress and social factors. Now take this drug that corrects a chemical imbalance.”

    They keep saying despite all evidence opposing them that “mental illness” is caused by genetics and biology. It doesn’t matter if they tack on a “social factors also contribute” they are still lying and the research shows their lies cause massive harm.

  • “Tell me in detail how horrible and shitty life has been for you. Now let me explain how it is the fault of your thinking. Don’t blame yourself though, life sucks because you are mentally/biologically defective. Do these mental games to change your thinking.
    If that doesn’t make things better you’ll need cognitive impairing drugs. If you don’t want the disabling drugs it’s because you’re too stupid… wait I mean you lack insight to understand addicting deadly drugs are good for you.” -Psychiatry

    Psychiatry Later, “Damn, all the people we treat are so sick, impaired, and emotionally unwell. Clearly they need to buy more drugs and sessions with us. We are hero’s saving people.”

    There was some science fiction book where one group poisoned the other group environment and then sold them treatments for it. That is essentially what psychiatry does.

  • To add more details. The direct monetary cost to provide psych “treatment” to the average psych “patient” is around $6,000 a year. For each 20 person group you get $120,000 per year for expenditures.
    We should also have a treatment group where each person is just given the money with no strings. A study found that giving the people money resulted in better outcomes compared to those getting psych.

    (1) https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w28106/w28106.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2vJl7rqLh0Ol9gl4XdbIQZw6qa3SFo4t0OwsH9fNjMXjjW59H4vA4oEG8

  • The underlying ideology utilized by most societies concept of changing “undesired behavior” is to agree seriously with the Army General yelling, “the beatings will continue until morale improves!”

    From childhood we are taught that hurting/punishing people is what is done if they don’t behave how they are expected.

    Everyone forcibly jailing (hospitalizing) another person recognizes it’s a form of punishment that causes direct harm. Sure, they rationalize that hurting and taking away the rights of people labeled defective and who “lack insight” is the actually the heroic thing to do. But that is simply, “the beatings will continue until morale improves” superimposed with vapid egotistical justifications.

    If you go to a psychiatrist and get a psych diagnosis it means society has now defined you as so “genetically/mentally/biologically defective” that you deserve less rights than criminals. Doesn’t matter if there is no evidence. Forcibly jailed, drugged and stigmatized. Since society believes in “beatings build character” it doesn’t dawn on people how a social wide curb stomping could be detrimental to someone’s well being and future.

  • “In Psychiatric studies complaining about drug effects, physical, health and other things is a sign of mental illness. Clearly doctors reporting drug harms are mentally ill and need to be drugged. Mentally ill people are defective and too stupid(lack insight) to understand so they need to be fired and socially shammed.
    Anyone disgreeing is an anti-science con artist stigmatizing, hurting and causing death for these poor defectively ill people. Ignore them, and buy some more drugs from me.” -Psychiatry

  • The Golem effect is a self-fulfilling prophecy that occurs because people treat someone based on the prophecy they’ve accepted about the person. People’s treatment toward the person essentially causes the negative prophecy to become true.

    Forcibly jail(hospitalize), drug and constantly monitor someone because they’ve been deemed “mentally and biologically defective” and a result is increased paranoia, anxiety, anger and decreased socialization, and happiness.

    Tell a kid they are defective, stupid, and behave badly and they internalize it. Forcibly drug them, constantly point out their perceived errors, and refuse to let them be their own person results in them internalizing the prophecy even more. They have less incentive to try because you can’t fix a brain disease by working harder. Even if they could overcome biology they’d still be labeled and subjected to the stigma. Personal Effort can’t fix the problem caused by the social environment and discrimination they face.

    I cringe watching almost any TV show where a child is labeled with a “mental illness” (Examples include The A word, and Parenthood). The family typically treats the child as an object that needs managed and fixed. In essence their response to their child being “labeled” is to self-fulfill the label.

  • I mostly agree except I see one more purpose of these awareness campaigns. They are also designed to reduce stigma and shame of people with family who are labeled with mental illness. One campaign had people wear shirts. The sister of someone with Bipolar had a shirt that said “sister” while the person labeled with Bipolar had a shirt that said “Bipolar”.

    It objectified the person labeled with “bipolar” in order to make those around her feel better. Family members are helped by putting false blame onto the labeled person. It is dehumanizing towards those who are labeled.

    This allows family members to blame their own behavior/feelings on the “mentally ill.” Increased drugging ensues as family members respond with any negative reactions to their behavior by pressuring the “defective ill” person to take drugs.

  • Can anyone tell me which phrases cause shame and stigmatization?

    “You are mentally and biologically defective.” -Psychiatry

    “You’re so dangerous you get less rights that criminals and need to be forcibly jailed/drugged.” -Psychiatry

    “You lack insight and are too stupid to know what is good for you.” -Psychiatry

    “You must be off your psych drugs. Get help.” -Common response when someone disagrees with the speaker.

    “You need to take drugs to fix your defective self.” -Common response if someone has accepted your mental health label.

    “Long term studies find psych drugs have no benefits. The drugs cause/increase suicide/violence, disability, death psychotic and depressive symptoms and so on.” -Anti-psychiatry

    “No replicatable study has found people with a psych labels have a chemical, biological or genetic difference between those not labeled. You are in the range of normal.“ -Anti-psychiatry

    Somehow psychiatry has convinced people to mindlessly assume the shame and stigma created by psychiatry is caused by anti-psychatry.

  • Dopamine stimulants (examples include meth, cocaine) and GABA drugs (examples include alcohol, and benzos) are street drugs regularly prescribed as “safe and effective” not only to tens of millions of adults but to millions of children.

    Psychiatry doesn’t care about cognitive dissonance. The simply fabricate some reason why deadly addicting street drugs that ruin lives are necessity medicine just like insulin if they are taken daily by “mentally/chemically/biologically defective” people.

  • Esketamine is different from Ketamine. They are not the same drug. Ketamine has Esketamine and another chemical compound.
    The corporation selling Esketamine did three trials. Esketamine had worse results than placebo in two and slightly better results in one. The most pro-Esketamine biased studies couldn’t even find the drug was better than placebo(2).

    Let’s analysis the Ketamine studies used to claim “miracle” improvement. In these studies 1 month after use the HAM D depression scale improves from around 23 to 10. A 13 point improvement. In clinical trials placebo follows an 8.5 point improvement(1). Note that in clinical trials the “placebo group” is put in withdrawal. Meaning the actual placebo effect is likely higher than the 8.5 point improvement.
    Ketamine, 1 month after use has a 4.5 point improvement over a placebo group going through withdrawal.
    Other psych drugs produce at most a 2 point improvement in short term corporate biased studies. Non-corporate biased long term studies find these drugs increase depression by 50-100%(3).

    These approval, praise, and evidence for ketamine looks exactly like what occurred with Serotonin drugs.

    (1) https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2019.00407/full
    (2) https://www.google.com/amp/s/khn.org/news/fdas-approval-of-new-depression-drug-overlooked-red-flags-in-its-testing/amp/
    (3)
    https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/03/do-antidepressants-work-a-peoples-review-of-the-evidence/

  • The major point I took away is that giving the person the same amount of money (or even less) than it costs to provide therapy instead of therapy has larger benefits than just therapy.

    Everyone’s health insurance/care costs would decrease if we just gave people money instead of paying $6,000 a year per person for mental health services. The economy would also improve as less people become disabled and unemployed because of mental health.

    People high in selfishness won’t care about fixing the system since it won’t help them. However, when doing so lowers their health care costs suddenly they have a self interest.

  • We can see why psychiatrists oppose this by giving an example of what telling patients the research would look like.

    “The evidence this SSRI helps short term is done by those selling it. These studies have half a dozen pro-drug flaws and yet they find the drug improvement is clinically meaningless. Long term studies find the drugs worsen outcomes but if we take people addicted to the drugs and withdrawal them they suffer. The drug takes 5 years off your life by causing physical illness.”

    The biggest problem with psychiatry is they not only refuse to give informed consent but lie about the benefits and harms to get people on the drugs. I’m not even sure this shared decision making idea can work because psychiatrists will just keep being dishonest. It’s not a decision if the party with power lies and manipulates the vulnerable person.

  • There isn’t much of an ability to “not preach to the choir” because mental health forums and other media censor people who post anything that does not agree with psychiatry. One psych forum has a separate but equal section. Even posting links to studies showing bad results for the drugs must be done in the anti-psych section. That is one of the least censored forums.

  • “There are so many people who say these drugs have helped” -Psychiatry

    “What about those saying the drugs caused massive harm?”

    “Defective mentally ill people are too stupid to understand what is good for them. Stop stigmatizing them by attacking psychiatry. ” -Psychiatry

    “That completely contradicts your earlier bandwagon argument.”

    Also,
    Those who recognize what psychiatry is who don’t have a psychiatric label can’t understand because they don’t have personal experience.

    In the same discussion I’ve been told “you’re mentally ill, your opinion isn’t valid” followed later by “you are too smart to be mentally ill and therefore can’t understand how good psych drugs are.”

    Doublespeak, is alive and well.

  • Make people feel powerless by falsely claiming they are biologically defective, check.

    Make them afraid they will suffer forever unless they do what you say, check.

    Make people dependent, not only on drugs but on psychiatry to solve their problems, check.

    Reeducate and reform their behavior and beliefs (the definition of CBT), check.

    Isolate people, check.

    Convince people they can only listen to the mental health system, check.

    Gaslight people and claim withdrawal means addicting drugs are good, check.

    Force and drug people so they stay in your group, check.

    If the mental health industry was a small religion we’d call it a cult. The government would have burned it to the ground and jailed its leaders for kidnapping, forced drugging, and assault (giving someone brain damage with drugs, or electrocution) and giving addicting deadly drugs to kids.

  • This paper tells me that some opposition to transgender rights and opposition to not enforcing social gender norms is caused because for various reasons some people want to force their idea of gender onto others.

    I’ve heard people say, “Sex is determined be the private parts someone is born with” yet later they’d say something such as, “boys wearing pink will confuse them. Not calling a boy a boy will make it so they don’t know what sex they are.”

    If it is true that the private part you have determines sex, wearing pink and being called by gender neutral pro-nouns can’t make someone a different gender. A irony is that those statements show the people making them accept that gender is at least partly a social construct.

  • Psychiatrists and doctors- You were helped by one; millions had their lives ruined by them. What can I say? Besides that I at least haven proof they have ruined millions of lives.

    How about we determination what is okay based on using logic? Appeals to authority are a logical fallacy.

    The Chiropractor was about more than money. It was about taking charge of their life and working hard. He earned the right to use logical fallacies. To pretend this is about working hard is to lie. This is about a systemic use of poor logic that causes oppression and death.

    What is happening is that you want different standards for different people. Stop pretending wanting certain people to have more rights and status isn’t about a desire for power.

  • Science now means whatever those with authority say it is. At least that is how psychiatry and the public view it.

    If psychiatry says drugs that increase serotonin and dopamine cure depression because of a chemical imbalance it is science. When the person is still depressed and psychiatrists say they need to add a drug that blocks dopamine and serotonin to cure a chemical imbalance it is science. It may seem to contradict itself but that is because everyone who is not a loyal psychiatrist lacks insight.

  • Maybe one reason the mental health industry tends to avoids abuse is because they don’t want to look in a mirror. This could simply be an emergent process.

    Regardless of what you think of psychiatry their tactics resemble those used by emotions manipulators.

    They partake in pretty much every sign of emotional manipulation mentioned in the bellow link.

    https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/emotional-manipulation#home-court-advantage

    When you are emotionally manipulating someone it is probably uncomfortable to tell them how someone else is doing the same thing.

  • Jiddu Krishnamurti spoke a lot about how the way we look at something changes what we see. How the rush to label, judge, and proceed to an action prevents us from understanding what is actually there.

    It’s not that the therapists observation changes the observed; it’s that the therapists actions stemming from it do. Observing paranoia, with “weird thoughts” and label someone being abused as a schizoprenic becomes self-fullfilling. They get cognitive impairing drugs and become incoherent. Now any claim that they are being abused can be rejected because they are certifiably so crazy they need less rights than a criminal. That itself might make someone lose it.

  • Sexism and racism is not the problem but are caused by the problem. The Dr. usage is the advancement of a logical fallacy. Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. Evidence, data and logic should be the basis of an opinion not the perceived “authority of the speaker”

    When I show people that the evidence and scientific studies show psych drugs cause only harm a common response is “listen to your doctor” This response means “reject the evidence it is our final and most essential command.”

  • Schizotypal personality disorder is an euphemism for “this persons personality isn’t normal enough and as a result they get stigmatized and abused therefore the problem is them” This study design doesn’t tell us marijuana increase this type of personality or if this type of personality uses more marijuana. Even if marijuana increases this type of personality (which this study does not scientifically show) it’s not a bad thing minus societies habit of hurting people who are different.

    I don’t have access to the exact “cognitive” tests and results of the study so it is impossible to tell if the subjectively stated cognitive difference is actually a real negative. A test can claim someone is mentally defective simply because they fail to agree with the majority. The psychiatric PANSS test says someone is psychotic if they simply disagree with psychiatry.

    Marijuana is a drug that has negative effects. Smoking is not healthy period. The problem I have is claiming things are bad because they don’t advance a bigoted view of how people should be. This study does this and therefore nothing it says can be taken as honest or accurate. Ironically this study hurts the cause of reducing marijuana use. Stating the negative effects from marijuana is that non users are bigoted against it and the drug causes a form of rebellion results in more marijuana users than if other negative effects are portrayed.

  • Arguments are made not for the person they are being done with but for the people watching/reading.

    Another analogy that is similar to your slave trade one is the court room. Psychiatry is the defendant and the average psychiatrist who prescribes these drugs is charged with lying and making money by killing more people than any serial killer.

  • If you are labeled with a mental illness and against psychiatry you are too stupid and lack insight and can be ignored.

    If you don’t have a mental illness label and are against psychiatry you don’t understand it and can be ignored.

    If you are a former psychiatrist who is against psychiatry you are a money whore because selling science non-fiction books is easier money than selling patented addicting drugs that are forced on people. Therefore you can be ignored as well.

    All those things look like examples of cognitive dissonance and inconsistent thinking but they aren’t. The psychiatric premise is that only loyal members of the cult can be listened to. The other excuses for why no one else should be listened to is marketing.

  • Looking at the details of the Cipriani study that claims serotonin drugs are effective is revealing.

    This study relied almost exclusively on published short term (IE cherry picked) corporate trials. More cherry picking was done by excluding people with physical health problems and people who were more likely to have adverse events. The study methods also included putting the placebo group through withdrawal.

    These studies are claimed to be randomized double blind trials but a Polish study found in practice they are unblinded. This occurs because of noticeable drug effects. Over 80% of people know who is in the drug group. This is important because the scale used to measure depression is highly subjective. It relies on self reporting. Playing with your hair too much means you’re more depressed. If the psychiatrist feels the person is apprehensive they are marked as more depressed.

    These studies are the most biased pro-drug studies out there. They are specifically designed to get the drugs approved. Yet according to them the drugs provide a 1.5 point “improvement” on a 54 point scale for 1 in 7 people taking them.

    For reference someone saying they are ill and defective is a 2 point improvement. Someone who stops losing weight (the drugs cause obesity) is a 2 point improvement. Going from a subjective “frequently complains” to “self absorption” is also a 2 point improvement. That is the best the drugs do in the most short term biased pro-drug studies done by people with massive conflicts of interests who we know because of court cases regularly lied and hid information about these very drugs.

  • The most common response psychiatrists have if someone complains about an effect of a drug is to add another addicting deadly drug or increase the first ones dose. Their definitions literally view complaints about drug effects as a sign of mental illness.

    It’s why people get put on neuroleptics (which block dopamine and serotonin) and drugs that increase serotonin and dopamine at the same time. Other combos are sleeping pills, and other sedatives while on stimulants. Anti-chilinergics (which cause dementia) for the neuroleptic induced brain damage which causes movement disorders.

    They don’t want not admit they broke the doctor ethics of “first do no harm” and “informed consent” so they lie and cover up by breaking those ethics all over again.

  • The use the drugs for 6 week to experience all the benefits was not only fabricated but it opposes the results of the corporate studies used to approve the drugs.
    Corporate psych drug studies find the entire theoretically drug benefit occurs at the start and decreases over time. By 6 weeks the placebo group has the same relapse rate but since they did worse at the start the drug still has a claimed net benefit. We know the reason these studies show a benefit at first is because the placebo group is actually in abrupt withdraw from the drugs.
    The 6 week lie is simply designed to addict people to the drugs.

  • Abilify gives you energy in the sense that it causes movement disorders where you are in pain or discomfort if you are not moving. All neuroleptics cause this in an estimated 25-75% of users. Serotonin and Benzo drugs also cause the movement diseases though at smaller rates.

    Neuroleptics may temporary knock out psychosis (though there isn’t any evidence this is true because all the studies have the placebo group in drug withdrawal). The problem is that the drugs disable the mind, kill, and increase long term psychotic symptoms. They are a trap with zero long term benefits.

  • Psychiatry tells everyone those with “mental illness” are defective and have biologic abnormalities. That they will be “ill” and suffer forever. In a sense since almost all people with a “mental illness” take chemical imbalance causing psych drugs this is true. A fear filled self-fullfilling prophecy in more ways than one.

    An often reply when I’m telling people how psych drugs cause only harm is “you are fear mongering.” Pscyh defenders utilize projection as much as a movie theater. When they are attacking anti-psych it’s more likely than not that they are projecting.

    Societies view and opinion on what people with these psych labels are like is not based on what these people are actually like. It’s based on what they are like when they are addicted to psych drugs, or in withdrawal. Many of the stereotypes, traits, and outcomes for people with these labels are effects from the drugs.

    Stereotypes such as having movement disorders, tobacco use, drooling, unemployment, cognitive impairment, early death, brain damage, apathy, suicide, an inability to feel pleasure, and a lack of motivation are all caused by neuroleptics. Even the symptoms these drugs are said to reduce are increased by the drugs.

    It becomes a feedback loop where people take the drugs because they are lied to about the effects and about having a chemical imbalance. The shitty outcomes afterwards then become proof people with psych labels are defective and ill. If those people quit the drugs withdrawal becomes more proof.

  • Before the use of drugs “mental illness” was episodic and a person would recover and be good for the rest of their lives. Now it is chronic because the drugs cause a chemical imbalance and result in an illness.

    It is harder to get people to take addicting deadly drugs when those drugs cause a chemical imbalance. It’s a lot easier if the people believe they are defective and genetic deadbeats who need drugs to be normal. It is similar to how abusive husbands convince the wife she is worthless and would be nothing if she left.

  • I wonder what the mental effects of being told you’re mentally defective, need “professional” help and need drugs are when you talk with friends and family about your suffering. The medicalization of suffering causes suffering because it has turned the response to suffering into veiled insults and self fullfilling prophecies of doom. Though it can’t be worse then the “professional treatments” of deadly addicting drugs that worsen all long term outcomes measured.

  • There is zero scientific evidence anxiety or any psychiatric label is genetic.
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2768030

    Benzos are deadlier and more addicting than “antidepressants”. Note the study found Benzos are 9% deadlier than antidepressants, which increase all cause mortality by around 70%.
    https://www.bmj.com/content/358/bmj.j2941

    The majority of people who suffer from anxiety and other psychiatric labels who don’t take drugs recover and it goes away. There is zero evidence Benzos provide a single long term benefit, in fact all long term data shows the drugs worsen all outcomes. Your insistence that you suffer so much and are angry because you struggle maintaining a drug addiction contradicts your insistence that the deadly, dementia causing drugs with zero evidence of any benefit are helping you.

    You’re probably suffering because of the drugs. After a days to a few weeks of use Benzos cause a large increase in anxiety, cognitive impairment, death, 4x increase in depression and other negative effects

    https://erenow.net/common/anatomy-of-an-epidemic/7.php
    (Chapter 7 the Benzo trap)

  • Society will spend tens of thousands of dollars jailing and drugging someone to try to prevent them from committing suicide yet when it comes to spending even less providing someone with food, healthcare and shelter it is called evil communism destroying the nation. Someone getting $800 a month for disability gets insulted as a drain on society but anyone saying spending $1,000 a month on addicting deadly psych drugs with zero benefits is bad is called a crazy cultist. Society is painted in cognitive dissonance.

  • Right, in the PANSS scale (which is used to measure psychotic symptoms in drug studies) someone is labeled psychotic if they are hostile and suspicious in disagreeing with psychiatry.

    In studies testing drugs for depression someone saying they are mentally defective is considered a 2 point improvement on a 54 point scale. The average drug has a 1.5 point improvement in the short term biases flawed corporate studies.

  • Someone is forcibly jailed in an institution. They are forcibly drugged and told the drugs will fix them. They continue to get worse because the drugs actually worsen all outcomes and the additional stigma and discrimination caused by being medically labeled “crazy, dangerous and mentally defective”. The mental health industry gets their family to spy on them and make sure they are taking the drugs.

    Paranoia in this case isn’t a delusion. It is manufactured by the mental health industry constantly lying, using force and hurting people. A common phrase is, “It’s not paranoia if they are really out to get you.” Everyone who has been through the the mental healthy system can one up that with, “It’s not paranoia when they already got me and a hundred million other people.”

  • 1) Almost everyone with a depression label gets drugged. Meaning even if they did find impaired neuron communications the more likely reason for that is the deadly brain changing drugs. Psychiatry likes to be dishonest and claim people who were addicted to the drugs for months and going through withdrawal from them are “drug naive” or “undrugged”.

    2) Were these impaired neuron communication findings replicated? MRI studies of mental illness show the point I’m trying to make. One MRI study will find those labeled with depression have a larger brain region and it will be declared a biological cause. Another study will find the same region is smaller and again be declared it is a cause. While a third will find no difference and be ignored.

    3) MAOI’s cause an increase in dopamine, serotonin, norephinprine, and other chemicals. Another drug that has some similar chemical effects is Cocaine and meth. Given all Antidepressants and MAOI’s more than double Dementia, and cause cognitive impairment claiming they improve cognitive function is an anti-science claim.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5347943/

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26295747/

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22377782/

    3) I’m sure a drug that increases dopamine and/or other chemicals can get you high or provide an active placebo effect. I’m sure addicting drugs cause withdrawal and make the addict feel like shit when they try to quit. This does not mean the drug is good and helping you. It means the drug is addicting and/or you had an active placebo effective or got high before tolerance kicked in. There are zero studies actually finding any psych drug has any long term benefit. Psych regularly touts studies finding the drugs are addicting and cause withdrawal and falsely claim this means the drugs are good but that is all they have. All long term studies that don’t utilize withdrawal data or account for it find all psych drugs worsen all outcomes by hundreds of percent.

    MAOI’s increase all cause mortality by 75%. All “antidepressants” cause large increases in death rates. MAOI’s on average will reduce your life expectancy by 7 years.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28903117/

  • Isn’t addiction a biological illness caused by the drug use changing the persons physical brain/body? Exactly like how mental illness is a biological illness caused by psych drugs. If someone has mercury or lead poisoning don’t they have an illness caused by those substances?

    I think a conflict arises because addiction is multiple different things clumped into one definition. One kind of addiction is a drug induced biological change that causes withdrawal when the drug is stopped. A second is a desire to get rid of pain/feel better and the only available way to do that is to use drugs. The second kind causes the first.

    Pretty much the focus on “helping” people with an addiction consists of stigmatization, discrimination, jail, and using other drugs or rehab to address withdrawal. Going to rehab or taking an addiction drug are red marks that can cause social isolation and discrimination. They reduce self-esteem but they do help reduce and get past the initial withdrawal.

    Our current treatment for addiction is such a failure because it harms a persons social and emotional health in order to attempt to address the biological effects of addiction/withdrawal. No one started using a drug because they had an addiction because biological addiction is a drug effect that comes after continued use. People who were once addicted, went through withdrawal and start using drugs again years later do not do so because they are addicted.

    Our societies treatment plan is to address an effect (biological addiction) by worsening some of the causes (social isolation, poorer self-esteem discrimination, etc).

    A biological addiction isn’t the cause. It is a drug effect that can be overcome by addressing what causes the drug use. Fixing the effect doesn’t work well because the causes are still there and the act of fixing the effect worsens the causes.

  • Yes. The drugs for TD like neuroleptics cause cognitive impairment making it harder for the person to recognize what is going on and complain. They also cause sedation; if you’re passed out in bed it’s harder to see/have movement. The new TD drugs being discussed here reduce dopamine, and other neurotransmitter levels. Neuroleptics block those receptors so both drugs have similar chemical effect. The adverse even data from the corporations show these drugs for TD cause other movement diseases. Other drugs for TD also cause cognitive impairment and sedation by causing chemical imbalances.

  • Imagine that scenario happening with any other trauma. A victim of rape being told to go see her rapist in order to get over her rape. A former disabled prisoner of war being told they need to go to the people who imprisoned them to get help for their blown off legs. If the person doesn’t do so they are called crazy, and blamed for not helping themselves. That is what happens to anyone who has escaped the prison of psychiatric drugs.

    It is difficult to become okay with trauma. It’s harder when the trauma was society giving you brain damage. It’s even harder when that society insults and blames you for the harm they caused and tell you to go get more brain damage to fix it.

  • Withdrawal can make TD appear worse. All neuroleptic studies take people addicted to the drugs and withdrawal half claiming that is a placebo group. This is one way the psychiatric studies hide how prevalent TD is with these drugs. They compare people who’ve been given brain damage from the drugs and are going through withdrawal to just people taking the drugs.

    The same thing happens with the new TD drugs. Since many people who enter a TD trial have either been on an old TD drug or reduced their neuroleptic dosage they are going through withdrawal. Adding the new TD drug means the drug group is no longer in withdrawal.

    You can see this in the TD drug studies where the entire drug benefit over “placebo” occurs in the first 4 weeks. After that period the placebo group has a larger improvement over the drug group but enough time doesn’t pass to overcome the outcomes in the first 4 weeks.

    Adverse even data from the corporations show the TD drugs over 12 weeks cause 5.2% of the people taking the drug to develop Akathsia (another painful movement disorder caused by brain damage) verse 0 for the “placebo”.

    Taking a new deadly addicting brain damage causing drug to sedate and temporary cover the symptoms of brain damage from the first drug is making the same mistake over and over again.

    Some studies have found that taking vitamins B6, magnesium, Iron, Omega 3 and B12 can have some benefits for TD and other movement disorders. Though make sure if you take these not to take huge amounts as very high dosages of vitamins can cause harm.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5440239/

  • Are we sure placebos can’t do long damage? Of course in the short term they help but I think we are all aware that short term “benefits” can reverse and become negative in the long term. I can imagine long term harm if someone attributes their success, ability, and happiness to a placebo instead of their own effort and strength.

    All else equal which person is happier: the one who thinks they are happy because of a placebo or the one who thinks they are happy because of their own effort?

    All else equal which person will be more functional, the one who think they can function if they take a placebo or the one who thinks they can accomplish their goals themselves?

  • Upton Sinclair could tell us why therapists don’t discuss how their power to essentially jail their consumers harms their consumers. How being a shoulder to cry on only because they are overpaid to do so is not a therapeutic environment (by overpaid I mean that their services have zero to very little long term benefits ). How the average person would be better off with the cash but have to use poorer quality services because that is how society operates. How most of their job consists of distracting blame from our dystopian society.

  • When you look at the tactics and signs of abusive manipulative behavior you’ll notice the mental health industry partakes in almost every single one of them. There is a natural tendency to rationalize why ones own actions are good. One reason they coddle abusers is because they are trying to defend their own manipulative abusive behavior.

    If someone is “mentally ill” because they are being abused the solution isn’t therapy or psych drugs. It’s removing them from the abuser. There is a financial conflict of interest to believe the abused person is “ill” among all mental health employees.

    The major problem with “life isn’t fair” is it is used to justify shit that is unfair. It is used as an argument to manipulate people into doing what you want them to do.

    Going with the flow is alright if the flow you’re going with isn’t objectionable. An aunt/uncle going with the flow to play imaginary games with children can be good and produce happiness. Going with the flow when it pertains to something that can cause harm is like lemmings jumping off a cliff.

    Our society has a tendency to attack the messenger. The person pointing out an injustice is assumed as equal in moral status as what causes the injustice.

    As the philosopher Jiddu Krishnamurti points out we are all simultaneously the observer and the observed. You don’t gain quality observation of something by distancing from it. You do that by sensing it for what it is, without preconceived notions, labels or desires to change it.

  • Yes that is a myth. This very article sources how the corporate studies claiming this myth compared low dose second generation to high dose first generations neuroleptics in order to claim the second generation was less likely to cause movement diseases. Studies that account for the bias and flaws find the newer drugs cause the same amount of movement diseases.

    The second generation was claimed to differ because the drugs caused serotonin and other chemical imbalances besides just dopamine. Yet when you look at the pharmacological data a lot of first generation drugs also caused more chemical imbalances besides just dopamine. I think it’s also a myth that the second generation is a new drug class. It was just labeled so in marketing because that sold better.

  • There is a withdrawal effect which can appear to worsen TD and similar symptoms in the short term. This is one way they were able to lie about the prevalence of these diseases in neuroleptic studies. They made the adverse effects of the drugs appear less likely by making the “placebo” group a group that was addicted to the drugs and went through withdrawal during the study.

    Imagine alcohol companies trying to claim their drug is safe because people addicted had similar adverse events compared to addicts put through withdrawal. “Alcohol addiction saves lives because the placebo group had more deaths during withdrawal.” It would be laughable how illogical it is, if not for society and people religiously agreeing without question.

  • The few studies for the new drugs for TD have the same problems as all psych drugs. They have the same chemical effect as older drugs. Older drugs that had no long term research but were widely used. Some or all people with TD entering these clinical trials had taken the older drugs and therefore a withdrawal effect would occur in the clinical trials. The studies would also be unblinded, cherry picked, short term and have all the other flaws.

    Let’s look at the results of the 6 week clinical trial for these drugs. At 6 weeks the drug caused a 3.2 point reduction on the AIMS scaled compared to a .1 reduction on placebo. They cherry picked 7 out of 12 of the 4 point measures on the scale. The drug at 6 weeks reduced these cherry picked symptoms by 11%. Slightly over 2/3rds of the benefit occurred in the first 2 weeks. On the CGI-TD scale there was no significant difference between the groups.

    Adverse events showed that compared to placebo 1.3% more of those using the drug died, 2% developed akathsia, 3.8% developed a new dyskinesia, and 2.5% developed a painful joint disease. Another effect was sedation which in the short term can mask signs of TD.

    VMAT2 inhibitors like these drugs have an indirect chemical effect of reducing dopamine, serotonin and Norep levels. That is basically what neuroleptics do and we know that in the short term reducing those chemicals masks TD and similar symptoms. Once drug dependence kicks in and the sedation reduced these drugs will make symptoms worse just like increasing neuroleptic dosages masks the symptoms in the short term and worsens long term symptoms.

    I’d bet good money that in 5 years when or if we get long term data we will find these drugs have no benefits and cause massive harm.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28320223/

  • I wonder if there are any studies or data on the topics therapy focuses on. How much of therapy consists of, “you need to be addicted to these drugs because you are biologically defective.” How much of therapy consist of trying to cope with drug effects such as amotivation, and obesity? How much is about coping with stigma and discrimination which occurs largely because psychiatry lied about how the people they label have broken brains and are so dangerous they need less rights than a criminal?

    Maybe that is why studies find therapy has little benefit while studies like this find some benefit when the focus isn’t on addicting people to drugs and addressing harms causes by psychiatry.

  • Sadly in our society someone’s actions don’t determine their ethical status. Authority and social status determine if someone is considered ethical in our society. That’s why a psychiatrist is a hero for addicting kids to amphetamines while lying about how meth is a health product.

    A meth dealer on the street selling meth to adults lacks authority and social status and therefore should be jailed. This is despite the meth dealer adhering more to the medical ethic of informed consent compared to the psychiatrist.

  • Another problem is the concept of “garbage in, garbage out” When all the studies consist of withdrawing people addicted to the drugs (garbage in) the results can claim the drugs help (garbage out).

    There are even meta-analyses that claim the long term Wunderink withdrawal study finds neuroleptic drugs are good. They say this by cherry picking the data from the withdrawal period and leaving out the post withdrawal data. The post withdrawal data shows 3 times higher recovery rates for those taken off the drugs, yet the psychiatric researchers claim the study claims the drugs help. I’ve seen this occur in multiple meta-analyses.

  • The hypotheses for the use of psychedelic drugs to help states of sadness, anxiety, addiction and so on have some significant differences from past drugs marketed for these things.

    Having a psychedelic experience by itself is thought to be one reason why using magic mushrooms can help with these things. For this mechanism of action people don’t need to do the drugs daily. One or a few trips on the drugs is suggested. A problem I see is this turning into people taking mushrooms constantly all the time.

    Psychedelics have less addiction potential and cause less harm to some ones health compared to any psych drug. Meaning even if they don’t help at all, using them over psych drugs will produce a net benefit by removing the harm from psych drugs.

    You’re experience is common. I know people who were put on drugs after a family member attempted suicide or they lost a job. People with negative life events are put on drugs and told they are ill. I wonder how many people don’t even bother mentioning negative life events because they believe they must be “ill” and drugs will help while talking about painful things just causes more pain.

  • One thing I’ve noticed is that psych “meta-analysis” often outright lie about the results of the studies they are looking at.

    One meta-analysis claimed Harrow had mixed results(3). Yet Harrow found worse results with the drugs for all outcomes measured.

    Another claimed Wunderink found the drugs helped(1). Wunderink found that long term withdraw from the drugs improved full recovery by 2.25-3 times.

    Meta-analyses of lithium claim the Amsterdam study says lithium helps but the study actually shows lithium uses had worse outcomes(2).

    I just listed 3 instances where prominent meta-analysis lied about the data even as the data was there proving the lie wrong. I wonder how prevalent this is.

    (1) https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/effect-of-discontinuation-v-maintenance-of-antipsychotic-medication-on-relapse-rates-in-patients-with-remittedstable-firstepisode-psychosis-a-metaanalysis/DC0C0DA6A891CAAE2F7F901EBAE46222

    (2) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7221175/

    (3) https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/12/timberrr-psychiatrys-evidence-base-for-antipsychotics-comes-crashing-to-the-ground/

  • The “almost 200 meta analysis have been published alone” is laughable. A meta analysis is a study that looks at other studies and reports their average results. All these meta analysis are of the same industry funded studies. They aren’t new; they are the same bad science junk that has been debunked. They have the same pro-drug flaws such as multiple instances of cherry picking, withdrawal, unblinding, outright fraud, short term length, and conflicts of interest etc.

  • This is incorrect. If these kids were not drugged society would save thousands of dollars a year per kid just in drug costs. Society would earn hundreds of thousands of dollars for every kid who is not disabled by these drugs.

    We would all benefit if millions of kids were not given deadly meth and meth like substances that cause only harm.

  • “Meth is horrible and will destroy your brain, ruin your life, and cause a psychotic rage where you commit murder suicide.” -Society.

    “Kids who don’t sit down and shut up need to get addicted to meth or else they will become drug addict depressed criminals in constant suffering .” -Same exact society.

  • Withdrawal is also a factor in almost all studies. The study design is to take people with depression and withdrawal them from their current drugs. During this withdrawal period they test the new drug vrs no drugs. Since most drugs used for depression increase serotonin, even before SRI’s all these studies have a placebo where some of the people are going through withdrawal. You can see this in the data with the drug benefit occurring mostly at the start of the short term study.

    2 points on the HDRS scale is equivalent to someone no longer losing weight. Meaning the drug is claimed to work because one of its effects is obesity. A person also receives a 2 point improvement if they no longer “deny” that they are mentally defective and ill.

    Does anyone really think obesity means depression is better? Does anyone really thing someone saying they are mentally defective means their depression is better?

  • “You can choose how you feel.”

    If this is true there’s no need for psych drugs because we choose how we feel.
    In a sense a placebo effect would be “choosing” how you feel subconsciously. Though using deadly, addicting drugs as a placebo instead of sugar is violating the medical ethic of “first do no harm”

    If you choose how you feel depression and emotions cannot be a physical brain disease. No one I know can use their mind to change their physical body.

    “Fake it until you make it.”

    Is mental illness a chemical imbalance or a frame of mind that can be created by pretending? How would one fake the correct chemical balance?

    “No one is responsible for your life but you.”

    If that were true society wouldn’t be forcibly locking people up or putting them on drugs because of how they feel. If someone really believes that saying they cannot also claim people shouldn’t commit suicide because it will hurt other people’s lives.

    It’s interesting how a lot of the advice from therapy contradicts what psychiatry says and does.

  • It is harder to make false claims about how those in withdrawal having bad outcomes prove the drugs are safe and effective if you also admit the drugs cause bad withdrawal. That’s why they hid and lied about withdrawal. They didn’t want to give informed consent because less people would buy their drugs and services if they did.

  • They watch the deterioration, death and drug effects and say it’s proof the people addicted to the drugs are genetically and mentally inferior and therefore need the drugs.

    When people go through withdrawal they claim withdrawal is proof the peoole need the drugs as well.

    It would be like if cocaine and meth addicts said their high death rates meant the cocaine was good for them. That withdrawal meant the drug healed them. Hell psychiatry flat out says this about the children they addict to meth.

  • You rejecting the data because Harrow made a speculative assumption (one he later said was wrong) in order to support your first fact free assumption sounds like denial.

    The Wunderink study had a sample size as large as the typical antipsychotics study. It also was 7 years long compared to the typical 1-3 months for other psychiatric antipsychotics studies. If anything it is a larger study compared to the average.

    You can read all about the VA study in the bellow link. To sum the VA data up psychiatric treatment itself doubles suicide. People who have worse mental health who didn’t take the drugs had less suicides compared to people with better mental health who took the drugs.

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/11/screening-drug-treatment-increase-veteran-suicides/

  • A study found “antidepressants” increase mortality risk by 33%. The most used drug classes have higher mortality rates.
    If pre-medicated depression was adjusted for the increased mortality from the drugs would be larger.

    Adding a second antidepressant increases mortality risk by 33% while adding an “antipsychotic” increased the mortality risk by 45% on top of that. Both those options are on top of the 33% increased mortality risk from the first antidepressant.

    That is a lot of dead people who were never informed of how deadly the drugs are. If a “medical profession” doesn’t follow the medical principles of “first do no harm” and “informed consent” are they really a medical profession?

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28903117/

  • Is that why Harrow found those with severe illness who didn’t take the drugs had 40% better better outcomes compared to those with mild illness who took the drugs?

    Is that why the Wunderink withdrawal study found the people quitting the drugs had more negative risk factors?

    Is that why the VA found veterans without a “mental illness” who took drugs had 50% higher suicide rates compared to Veterans with a “mental illness” who didn’t use the drugs?

    This new study notes that the people who quit the drugs went through withdrawal and were non-compliant. Both of which cause and are associated with worse outcomes.

    The problem with your argument is that it’s a fabricated one. One that is rejected by the evidence and research.

  • It’s odd because if you present people with dozens of studies find the drugs worsen the very symptoms they are said to help also cause a bunch of new physical and mental illness the response is “what else are we to do?”

    The idea doesn’t cross people’s minds that maybe not taking drugs that worsen the “illness” and cause other illnesses is a better course of action than spending $5,000+ dollars a year poisoning people.

  • Back before society recognized that lobotomies were torture, maiming and killing people psychiatry called “antipsychotics” chemical lobotomies.

    Now a-days if you state what psychiatry once said as fact you are anti-psychatry.
    This happens in several other instances, where if you say what psychiatry says pro-psychiatry druggers insult you and get upset. Psychiatry can say without any evidence or science that the people they label are mentally defective, stupid/lack insight, more dangerous than criminals and lost causes. But if you point this out suddenly you’re stigmatizing people.

  • Another myth: You need to take the drugs for 4-6 weeks to see the benefits.

    According to the studies used to claim the drugs are effective the drugs benefit decreases over time.
    Now we know the reason the drug has benefits in these studies at the beginning is because the study design is to put the “placebo” group through withdrawal from the same drugs.

    The 4-6 weeks myth in practice gets people addicted to the drugs even if they don’t feel any benefit. Then if they try to quit they go through withdrawal and are told it’s proof the drugs are good.

  • Wouldn’t it be logical to assume taking drugs that cause cognitive impairment would make talk therapy less effective?
    A study did find that talk therapy was less effective for those taking the drugs.

    Basically what the mental health industry did-which is what they almost always do- was fabricate a fact free reason why the drugs help.

    Some therapists probably confuse them wasting time pushing drugs on people who do not want them as evidence taking the drugs improves therapy. When you take the drugs the therapist doesn’t have to push them on you and something else can be talked about.

    https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/11/psychotherapy-less-effective-people-poverty-antidepressants/

  • One way to convince society the people you’re locking up are dangerous is to drug them with drugs that increase violence, irritability, aggression and suicide.

    One way to convince society that the people you drug are too stupid to understand and lack insight is to give them brain damaging, cognitive impairing drugs.

    A this point with so many stereotypes of those labeled with “mental illness” having been found to be caused by the drugs it’s logical to say that “mental illness” is real. It is a chemical imbalance and brain/body disease. One caused by psychiatric drug addictuon.

  • Saying the drugs are “safe” is a tell. It is a purely subjective term. Real science would say the drug causes a percent change in all cause mortality. The “safest” antidepressants increase all cause mortality by 49%, antipsychotics by around 200%, and Benzos by hundreds of percent. The drugs take 5-25 years off people’s lifespan. This is covered up by claiming they are “safe” instead of giving the actual data.

  • The Harm reduction strategy is essentially, “we can’t stop drug use so let’s try to make it so the drugs used are less harmful ones.” Going from being addicted to an a drug that increases all cause mortality by 250% to one that increases it by 75% is a benefit.

    A problem is if informed consent isn’t directly given. It needs to be flat out said, “This drug is also deadly but not as deadly as your current addiction. It can but will not always help keep you off the deadlier stuff. You’d be better off on neither drug but if you can’t get off the deadlier one it is better to be on this one.”
    There also needs to be actually evidence that the drug is safer and effective at reducing use of the other drug.

  • The corporate clinical trials find about a 2 point change in the 54 point HAMD depression scale in the short term. This is before any adjustments to the half dozen or so design flaws that make the drugs appear better.

    Here are some examples of what a 2 point change in the HAMD scale is.
    -A person going from saying they are not ill to saying they are ill.
    -If the person stops losing weight.
    -The psychiatrist feels the person has stopped being preoccupied with health.
    -The person is no longer playing with their hands or hair according to the psychiatrists opinion.

    If informed consent occurred I wonder how many people would take a deadly addicting drug (Antidepressants increase death rates by similar amounts as an alcohol addiction) where the benefit was equivalent to, “I now say I am mentally defective and agree with the psychiatrist selling me drugs.”

  • Are there any other businesses or medical professionals whose practice is to insult their consumers? Who claim their consumers need to keep taking the addicting drugs they sell because the consumers are too stupid to know they are really good? Who then turn around and say anyone who they have not insulted who says something negative about the drugs lacks insight to know how good they are?

  • Half life of various drugs
    Cocaine 1 hour
    Heroin 30 minutes

    Half life means the time it typically takes for half the original substance to be metabolized and/or eliminated from someone’s system. It is not a reflection on the harms or benefits of the substance. It isn’t even an actual reflection on the duration of the substances actions. Many drug effects last last long after the original substance has been metabolized. These effects are sometimes called “withdrawal” “hangovers” “addiction”

  • In the scale they use for studies for neuroleptic drugs, psychotic symptoms include: suspicion, grandiose thoughts (so disagreeing with the psychiatrist), excitement, and hostility. Don’t even need hallucinations, delusions or disorganized thinking to score as psychotic. Though since it is all subjective disagreeing with psychiatry can be a delusion.

    In SSRI and drug studies used for depression/anxiety the person going from saying they are not ill to saying they are ill produces a larger “benefit” than the total short term drug benefit. No need to even address that these studies are cherry picked withdrawal studies because when you know what they define as “better than placebo” you realize the drug is worse than worthless.

  • A 450 page research book is “oversimplification” while a psychiatrists “you are ill therefore you are ill take these great drugs because we cherry picked a few corporate clinical trials.” Is what exactly? What do we call it when highly unequal standards are applied?

    If you admit the decision is painful why does psychiatry lie and withhold facts about it from people? Something being painful does not excuse them manipulating people to take as you say “painful” addicting drugs. Drugs that Anatomy showed cause only long term harm.

    Psychiatry are the ones who lied about a chemical imbalance to get people on the drugs. They are the ones who force people to take the drugs. People with these labels don’t get insulted for taking the drugs; they get insulted for being off them. Your “pill shamming” comments are you blaming others for the actions of psychiatry. Just like psychiatry blames the effects of their drugs on the people taking them.

    If you really believed the standard need to be high to release these kinds of ideas to the public you’d be attacking psychiatry. You know the people who lied to slander hundreds of millions Who lied to get hundreds of millions addicted to drugs. Who gave millions brain damage from their drugs. Those ideas were the dangerous ones. Correcting those ideas are only dangerous to those benefiting from the lies.

  • “Mentally ill” people who are against the drugs lack insight and can be ignored and forced on the drugs.
    People without those labels who are against the drugs can be ignored and slandered because they lack the insight from being “ill”
    Psychiatry holds these two contradictory beliefs simultaneously. I’d say if anyone lacks insight it is the psychiatry people who can’t do basic logic.

  • You once falsely believed the medication was the reason for everything you had. Now you recognize the truth, that you were stronger, more resilient, and more dedicated then you ever imagined. Strong enough to survive being put on however many horrible drugs for so long. I hope you can recognize the beauty, exceptionalism, and accomplishment of your survival like I now do.

  • It’s hard for anyone to say if what they experience and feel is an effect of the drugs because psychiatrists lie and withhold what the effects are. They tell people the effects of their drugs are because of their “illness”. Patients who complain are called crazy. Most the time they are given an additional addicting deadly drug to address the effects of the other drugs.

  • Pretty much everyone with these labels gets drugged. If they do well off the drugs psychiatry claims they must not really have the “illness”. This means that the perception of what these labels are is based on looking at drugged people. Particularly drugged people put through withdrawal.

    The irony is that “mentally ill” people do have an “illness” that illness is a psychiatric drug addiction to drugs that cause brain damage even in the short term. These people’s brains do have abnormalities that cause horrible effects. Those abnormalities are effects from the drugs.

  • Well if they didn’t deny the effects of the addicting deadly drugs they push and even force on people and they had any conscious they would have trouble sleeping at night.

    Why bother becoming informed about your actions if doing so shows you’re maiming people? Much easier and better for ones happiness to ignore the consequences of your actions. To call anyone pointing them out a dangerous crazy person.

    There is a quote that goes “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” I can one up that with, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his moral status depends on his not understanding it.”

  • Isn’t it shocking how psychatry admits that they purposefully violate the medical principle of informed consent? They also violate the medical oath of “First do no harm.”
    They admit to withholding facts and lying to people in order to manipulate them into buying their addicting deadly drugs. If a group violates the doctors oath and standard medical principles doesn’t that mean they aren’t medical professionals?

  • I think it is revealing what Psychiatrists mean exactly when they say our treatment is “effective, and better than placebo.”

    The corporate clinical trials do find that antidepressants are statistically significantly better than placebo. (For now let’s not address biases and flaws of these studies. Let’s just look at the exact results). These studies find that the drugs in the short term reduce the HAMD 54 point scale by about 2 points. A 2 point change in this scale can mean the person goes from saying they are not ill to saying they are ill. The psychiatrist thinking the persons facial expressions have gone from apprehensive to irritable is also a 2 point change. If someone stops losing weight it is also a 2 point change.
    That is why they think people need to take these drugs for life. Because a 6 week corporate clinical trial says that their addicting deadly drug causes a persons HAMD scale to change by the equivalent of them no longer disagreeing with psychiatry .

  • Almost all studies psychiatry uses for “safety and effectiveness” for its drugs consist of putting the non drug group through withdrawal. Since withdrawal causes these neurological disorders these studies will vastly underestimate how many people get this drug induced disease.

    I wonder what the people who started the medical principle of informed consent would think of not telling people, “There is around a 50% chance using antipsychotics will cause a permeant painful movement disease that can’t be treated.”

  • Imagine if the prescribers did that and performed honest informed consent. “The corporate clinical trials found antidepressants causes a 1.5 point increase in a 54 point scale in the short term. In this scale you changing your mind and agreeing you are mentally ill is registered as a larger benefit than the benefit the drug provides. 87 people out of 100 taking the drug will not see any improvement from the drug. The drug is addicting and it increases all cause death rates by 25-75%.”

    How many people would take that drug?

  • Money isn’t the most important factor. It is deeper than that.
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his moral and social status depend on his not understanding it.
    The mental health profession forces drugs on people and drugs kids. For them to admit their whole profession is a pseudoscience that kills and tortures people’s; they have to accept the horrors they’ve done.

  • Do chemical imbalances that are as deadly as an alcohol addiction count as an an incurable disease? If so technically people do have that because psychiatric drugs cause deadly chemical imbalances. Pretty sly to lie and say your patients will never recover and put them on drugs that cause chronic illness. They will assume the effects of the drugs is their mental illness and keep taking the drugs. Even more crafty to lie and claim the drugs take 4-6 weeks to work because by that time a person is addicted. The withdrawal is then used as evidence the drug works. Their studies that claim these drugs work use the same idea. They put the placebo group through withdrawal. Because of this these biased studies actually find the effectiveness of the drug declines after several weeks.

  • You mean maybe mental diagnosis are just a bunch of random traits people disliked and they don’t describe any cause or disorder at all? That would explain why many people’s diagnosis switches and why a lot of people could be labeled with multiple diagnosis. Assuming something that causes mental suffering and problems will result in similar presentations in everyone is bad science.

  • If society grants you the authority to diagnosis people as ill and drug them then you can. Society not only granted psychiatrists the authority to lock people up and force drugs on them, but also the authority to determine if their drugs are safe and effective. Like almost all defendants at a trial they said they were good. The best! Evidence based. Saving lives and making you safe. No chance people whose drugs were killing and torturing would admit it right? No chance people paid by a drug company could make a biased study on the companies drug.
    A major problem with this debate is society acts like the defendant is the best expert witness.

  • https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/11/screening-drug-treatment-increase-veteran-suicides/

    I’ll give you a warning Pro-psychiatry people are in a constant state of denial. I’ve had multiple people respond with a variation of “mentally ill people commit more suicide”. They don’t ever actually read any research they just make up lies about how the research is wrong and they are right. This wouldn’t work very well but corporations and psychiatrists making money off the drugs easily produce fraudulent research.

  • Antidepressants increase suicide by 250%. Veterans without a mental illness who get psychiatric “care” have 50% higher suicide rates compared to Veterens with a mental illness who don’t get psychiatric care. Antipsychotics increase psychosis by 300% and triple disability. Let that sink in.
    The mental health industry does more harm than all mental illnesses combined. They cause more suicides, deaths, and suffering.

  • It’s a choice of accepting that you hurt and killed a lot of people or denying it to save moral, social and financial face. It’s not just that they are making money. They get their social status and power from the status quo. Admitting their lies harm/kill people means all fantasies that they are good decent people go away. The quote “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” Misses a bigger point. If your profession has been hurting and killing people all along your morals depend on you not understanding it.

  • The “placebo” randomized control trials done by corporations may have found around 88% of the drug effect is a placebo effect. However these studies put the placebo group through withdrawal and/or have an unblinded drug group (via side effects). We should stop acting like studies with massive bias in favor of the drugs and done by corporations who’ve been fined billions for fraud are real. They are propaganda.

  • Making assumptions about behavior is what psychiatrists do. We shouldn’t just assume mice* behave in a certain way and design experiments based on the idea that our biases in researched assumption is truth. If we did that we’d be making the same mistakes psychiatrists make against the people they label.

    * Mice are experimented on because their brains are very similar to human brains. Given we know animals recognize individuals, feel, think, remember, play, etc just like humans there are zero scientific reasons to just make assumptions that they can’t behave like us.

  • It’s not just that society doesn’t admit and apologize for killing, disabling and ruining millions of lives. It’s that society is still doing it. 20% of the population is currently being harmed by psychotropic drugs. People I know and love are taking these drugs. Even the ones who want to quit can’t because the withdrawal is so horrible. I made friends through the mental health system that did not survive it. If I move on from this it will be a miracle.

  • This website had an article about how withdrawal symptoms of SSRI’s and other drugs last almost a year. Psychiatrists will put a patient on a drug and if they don’t improve after a few months they switch drugs and continue doing this. Meaning these people are going through withdrawal from multiple drugs at once. “Treatment resistant” is a euphemism for caused by the “treatment”.

  • They won’t flat out admit it but that is what the mean. It’s similar with stimulants for children labeled as ADHD. The drugs don’t improve grades, harm the child’s health and result in higher rates of depression, bi-polar etc. That doesn’t matter because people in authority find the drugged children are easier to manage. Makes one wonder are the other drugs considered good for similar reasons? Are “antipsychotics” given because they make people semi-unconscious meaning they are easier to manage?

  • Society puts a lot of pressure on people to take psychotropic drugs. People are still forced to take these drugs. Those that can’t be force fed the drugs are shamed and stigmatized to take them. The psychiatrists explanation for why people don’t want to take these drugs is that they are to mentally ill and defective to understand. It’s at the level where in order for society to label you as a good parent you need to get your kid addicted to meth.
    I totally get why some people who don’t take these meds pretend they are taking them. If everyone thinks you already take them they won’t pressure you to start taking them.

  • I was reading an article about how a study found people with ADHD have sleep troubles and that explained a large portion of their symptoms. The article mentioned giving them sleep drugs. The article never mentioned that an effect of ADHD drugs is sleep troubles. Instead of blaming the drug it was the patients fault and required more drugs. People who get bipolar from SSRI and stimulants are given more drugs. When you keep giving your patient more deadly drugs to treat side effects of other addicting drug you put them on it begs the question, are you a snake oil salesman? An anatomy of an epidemic answers that question as a yes. These drugs don’t provide any benefits.

  • Yes these drugs as detailed in An anatomy of an epidemic worsen the very symptoms they are supposed to treat in the long term. The “relapse” when quitting them isn’t a real relapse it’s a withdrawal effect. It is a direct harm caused by the drugs. It’s common to label withdrawal as a sign that the person needs the drug. This is like saying people need to be drunk all day because alcohol withdrawal can kill people.

  • I have been avoiding going to the dentist. The modern medical field of psychiatry is a the equivalent of blood letting why not dentistry? I now realize one reason why there are people who refuse life saving cancer treatments. When you have been lied to, involuntary committed, poisoned by a whole prestigious medical profession and they continue to do it to millions of people it’s difficult to feel safe and trust other people. The irony is that psychiatrists would say my paranoia is a sign of my illness. When really it’s a sign of how they abused me.

  • His argument would be much more insidious and deep. He’d lie and say that mentally ill people are biologically defective and the drugs fix this defection and therefore help them. He’s not defective so he doesn’t need to be fixed with drugs. His metaphorical allies have already convinced the populace that mental illness is caused by a chemical imbalance meaning they will accept it. That’s how they can rationalize making meth illegal because it’s so horrible while telling children they need to be high on meth all day.

  • In our current system the corporation expecting to make billions is the one who determines the safety and effectiveness of their drug. They design, create perform and analysis the “clinical trials”. They hide negative clinical trials and only publish positive ones. One “antidepressant” was approved because there were two positive trials for it. Later it was found out there was 5 negative trials that were hidden.
    Clinical trials need to be designed, performed, etc by a neutral third party. All the data needs to be public record.
    The Soviet Union was horrible but having state granted monopolies determine the safety and effectiveness of medical products they make trillions of dollars from is a step closer to how the Soviet Union operated.

  • The force, loss of rights, drugging, mistreatment, abuse and so on inherent in mental hospitalizations is traumatic and worsens outcomes but I think the harm is much more systemic than that. It’s not just the obvious atrocities it’s the whole thing. Isolating people in a hospital doesn’t produce benefits. It results in worsened social relationships not even counting the stigma.
    I doubt hospitalizations even truly voluntary ones do more good than harm.

  • If someone said alcohol was safe and effective and should be consumed all day because alcoholics taken off alcohol do worse (some can even die from the withdrawal) they’d be laughed at. Yet that is the same exact argument used for psychiatric drugs.
    Psychiatrists lie to people to get them addicted to drugs. They then use the withdrawal which is a harm caused by the drug as a reason to keep people addicted to the drugs. They even force people to get addicted to their drugs. The drug cartels are amateurs.

  • This will be a little off topic but I want/need your advice/opinions. A few months ago I read Robert Whitaker’s book “An anatomy of an epidemic” and began frequenting this website. I am now withdrawing slowly off these drugs and despite the withdrawal effects I feel better. I used to wake up every single morning wanting to die for hours. Since I significantly dropped my dosage I no longer want to die.
    However I am suffering trauma from the atrocities these drugs have done and are doing to me and millions of other people. I befriended a lot of suffering people through the mental health care industry. I still have contact information and could track down contact information for some of these people. I feel a need to help them by telling them the dark truth about the drugs. I need advice regarding that and I don’t know where else to get it besides here.
    I realize that probably all of them will think I’m a “crazy” person and my efforts will accomplish nothing. But the result of doing nothing is the same as failure. The only chance to do good is to try. So any personal experiences, thoughts or advice regarding that subject would be appreciated. Thank you.

  • Remember when these people said the brain damage was caused by schizophrenia when it was really caused by the “antipsychotic” drugs?
    They are doing the exact same thing when they claim “behaviors” are responsible for the high death rates. These drugs cause the unhealthy “behaviors”. It’s harder to work out or cook healthy meals when you’re sedated and demotivated by a drug. It’s harder to be at a healthy weight when you’re taking a drug that makes you want to eat all day.
    Studies also find that these drugs increase recreational drug consumption. When smoking a cigarette reduces your antipsychotic side effects you’re going to smoke more.
    When they blame “behaviors” for the high death rates they are missing the fact that the “antipsychotic” drugs are the cause of the behaviors. Though maybe they know they are lying.

  • The solution is always more drugs. Develop a new symptom while taking a drug and you get another drug. One antidepressant doesn’t work so they try another one with the same supposed mechanism of action. When you go off the drugs withdrawal is used as evidence that you need more drugs when it really is proof the drugs harmed you. This type of behavior is what drug cartels do.
    I’m currently going through antipsychotic withdrawal (I was coerced on it with an injection). The first month and a half of tapering was fine but I went down another level. This drop and withdrawal paradoxically has worsened my akinesia (restlessness, agitation etc). I tried Benadryl (anticholigeneric) because it is supposed to help with akinesia but I found it worsened my akinesia while making me drowsy. I’m of the theory that all the benefit of anticholgentics for akinesia is due to active placebo effect and sedation. A study found B6 helps with akinesia so I’m eating lots of peas, spinach, and bananas.
    I remind myself that withdrawal does even if very slowly get better over time. That withdrawal is evidence the drug does harm. That using the drugs only worsens my life even if I suffer withdrawal. But I can’t shake the fear that the drug induced damage will be with me forever.

  • Currently the corporation standing to make billions off their drug is the entity that determines if their drug is safe and effective. The “research” the corporation does is private and as a result they hide negative effects and results. We could have a government funded agency that determines the safety and effectiveness of the drugs. The research would be public. No cherry picking, no more conflict of interest, no more hidden effects and data.

  • The answer is always more drugs. Have a side effect from a drug, here take another drug. The first SSRI didn’t work here try another SSRI. The current “antidepressant” doesn’t work here add on an “antipsychotic”. Some people will get put on a 8 different “antidepressants” that don’t work and the answer is another “antidepressant”.
    Objectively they are worse than your typical recreational drug dealer. They force the drugs on people. They force them on children. They lie to trick people into getting addicted. Most drug dealers do less harm.

  • Children given stimulants are taught and internalize the idea that the only reason they behave is because they take a pill to correct their broken brain. The same applies to people diagnosed with depression and schizophrenia. The happiness and success they get is not attributed to their hard work and determination but rather to the drugs. Yet the side effects from the drugs such as weight gain etc are blamed on the individual. This world view creates chronic patients with low self esteem. The saddest part is it’s completely false.

  • The I guess ironic thing about the “it’s lifestyle factors” explanation for the reduced lifespan is the drugs worsen/cause these lifestyle factors. SSRI’s increase alcohol consumption, “antipsychotics” are associated with more tobacco use. These drugs can also make you lethargic, apathetic and unmotivated which makes it harder to exercise and eat healthy. The drugs also cause weight gain with some people gaining 100 pounds because of them.
    Blaming “lifestyle factors” is a good way to deflect blame onto the victims but it misses the point that the drugs cause the lifestyle factors. It reminds me how the pro-druggers claimed it was schizophrenia that caused brain damage when it turned out to be the “antipsychotics”.

  • “Antipsychotics” just like stimulants and “antidepressants” cause a whole list of side effects that are noticeable. One study found that around 85% of clinicians and patients given the drug in clinical trials know they are on the drug. This means these trials are not double blind placebo studies. They are trials comparing the drug and placebo where pretty much everyone knows if they are given the drug. We need to stop calling corporate clinical trials double blind placebo studies because that is false.

  • The World health organization did several studies looking at outcomes in developed nations verses non-developed nations. In undeveloped nations 66% of those diagnosed with schizophrenia had good outcomes compared to 37% in developed nations. One major difference between the two groups of countries is that most people in developed nations took an “antipsychotic” while undelivered nations didn’t.
    Eli Lily the pharmaceutical company did a study that supports the theory that the drugs are why developed nations have worse outcomes. In their study they made sure everyone was given “antipsychotics” and as a result the outcomes worsened.

  • Just because a term is highly subjective and doesn’t describe a physical reality doesn’t necessarily mean it is meaningless. If that were the case the terms happiness and sad would be meaningless.
    I think what you’re trying to say is “psychosis” as well as all mental health diagnosis don’t describe biology or something we can accurately determine. It’s not like a broken arm or diabetes where there is a physical part of you that is broken. There is zero known biological, chemical or physical difference between those labeled with mental illness diagnosis and those who aren’t. But that doesn’t mean terms that describe behavior and symptoms such as psychosis are meaningless.

  • What label would you give to something with this description.
    -Gets people addicted to their drugs
    -Lies and commits fraud to get people to take their addictive drugs
    -Their drugs are horrible for your health increasing your death rate by a third. They even worsen the symptoms they are supposed to relieve.
    -Forces people to get and stay addicted to their drugs.
    That sounds like a Drug Cartel.

  • One of the studies found negative heart health and blood sugar control associated with PTSD. SSRI’s, neuroleptics and other drugs that are prescribed for the vast majority of people with PTSD cause heart disease, obesity and diebetes. This reminds me how when it was found schizophrenics had brain damage psychiatrists said it was because of the illness but it turned out it was because these people took neuroleptic drugs. Studies found that worse pychotic symptoms and even recreational drug use was not associated with brain damage just neuroleptic use.