The percentage of wrong convictions is also waaaaay lower. >95% of alleged suicidals who get hospitalized involuntarily would not have killed themselves anyway. If a judge would have a rate of >95% of his convicted being not guilty, I’d expect him to quit his job on the spot.
Exactly.
She got lucky and doesn’t even know it.
“…lacking direct experimental confirmation…”
That’s not how science works. To test a hypothesis you try to prove it wrong. You don’t confirm it.
Also the chemical imbalance theory dates back to the 4 humors in ancient greece.
Who let these pseudointelectuals anywhere near a university?
There is no ethical dilemma.
That would require working treatments. There are none. If there were working treatments, you’d get the dilemma of helping someone against their will. That’s not the case. Coerced psychiatry is harming people against their will, while under the delusion of helping. That’s abuse. It is the same thing abusive parents do, when they hit their child to “fix” it.
Death penalty is barbaric.
Every life saved from it is a good thing, even if it was done for the wrong reasons.
Great summary of psychiatrys core problems.
“Understandable” is an important concept. Most behaviours are if you actually know the background.
It’s going to take a while until this becomes mainstream with all the financial and power interests in keeping the status quo.
It has somehat fallen out of favour in psychology, but is still noted for its importance in the beginnings of systemtheory.
Great article.
I’ve been thinking along similar lines although in different language.
To me coercive psychiatry commits acts of hate in the name of (twisted) love, thereby creating the double binds Bateson theorized to cause schizophrenia.
Even assuming there is a genetically caused thing one could call schizophrenia, it would never be found, because the diagnostic process is such trash, that it barely improves upon monkeys assigning diagnosis by throwing darts. If even at all.
If most of the people called schizophrenic in fact aren’t, you’re not going to find what causes schizophrenia.
Assume schizophrenia is 100% explained by genetics. For a study of the entire genome to find only 2%, you’d have to have 98% missdiagnosis ratio.
*Thumps up*
“It is an uphill battle convincing my parents and nurse practitioner that these medications are more harmful than helpful.”
Your parents should support you as long as your goals aren’t immoral. Helping someone isn’t about forcing your goals on them. I hope they will find the strength to realise that, even if they have doubts.
I also hope you will find your place in the economy while upholding your morals. Not all commerce is bad. There’s nothing wrong with building tables or houses, growing crops, writing books and many other occupations.
You’ll find your way.
Good point.
Also anyone who claims to be right because he is an expert probably lacks expertise, while anyone with expertise will explain why they are right instead of claiming to be an expert.
It’s unbelievable such a barbaric treatment is still in use.
Would you try fixing a computer by random electric shocks? No? How about a brain, which is infinitely more complex and less understood?
Looking forward to this.
On the Kuhn part. Planck said it shorter (and way more pessimistic):
“A new scientific truth does not tend to assert itself in such a way that its opponents are convinced and declare themselves to be lectured, but rather by the fact that the opponents are gradually dying out and that the growing generation is familiar with the truth from the outset.”
Dying is a bit harsh. Retiring would be enough.
“Having a crisis is not an illness!”
Actual conversation from when I was locked up ina psych ward. I was never told a diagnosis, so I made a point of asking every day.
Me: can I go now?
Psycho: No.
Me: so have you figured out what I habe?
Psycho: you have a crisis.
Me: that’s not a category of ICD-10 and the only crisis I have is being locked up here. Are you an idiot?
Psycho: *silence*
Horrible those kids go from one hell to another.
They even get blamed for it by labeling them with a diagnosis, while in reality they have “shitty parents syndrome”.
Steve,
Literally everything will be interpreted as sign of mental illness.
I couldn’t sleep during my first night locked up. Pretty normal considering the circumstances. Quite a lot of people get stressed out to the point where they can’t sleep by far less, like going on vacation the day after. Not for psychiatrists. They wanted me to take neuroleptics for that.
I asked what the “up to” part of “can be held up to day X” in the court order meant. To the psychiatrist that was “concretism” and a sign of schizophrenia. To anyone else that would have been a perfectly normal question.
The psychiatrists I dealt with were mentally ill themself. Not surprising when your day job consists of abusing people, who in turn hate your guts and show it.
Thank you, Paula, and please keep your work.
Half a world away and that still mirrors what I experienced closely
Secret and bullshit diagnosis? Check.
Being pushed towards medication for no reason? Check.
The feeling it was about money? Check. (I got asked by one of the docs if I thought it was about money without me ever thinking or saying anything like that prior. It was her thought. I thought of them as merely incompetent.)
.
.
.
Miata? Check. xD
Boans,
That sounds horrible. Where do you live, if I may ask. So I can never go there…
30 watt,
I can relate. I luckily have some friends who know the story and are sympathetic. I’ve also lost some people. They usually gave the “advice” to talk about it with a therapist.
I never know when to bring it up with new people.
It has been a significant contributor to losing a romantic relationship.
Sam,
Gladly I’ve never been raped, but it is the only analogy I can think of. Total powerlessness.
I’ve had my life believably threatened by someone and there was a moment I thought I’d die, but I called the cops, he got sentenced and it took a whileybut I’m over it now. Thoughts about it are rare and not threatening anymore.
Being locked up in a psychward was so much worse it wasn’t in the same ballpark, the same league, the same friggin universe. It haunts me to this day. I’ll never get justice. (But I have a bottle of Champagne reserved for the day coercive psychiatry gets outlawed here.)
And I got lucky. It was just 7 days. I did not take any drugs. I got rid of the alledged schizophrenia diagnosis. I’m certain I walked with minor injuries compared to many others. Survivors guilt ain’t no fun either.
I hope you can find a doc you can trust for physical needs.
“Fear of being called mentally ill and all that follows from that, including losing support from friends and family, who want you to confine your talk to a therapist behind closed doors, just take psychiatric drugs, and/or agree to be hospitalized.”
You are understating this.
It is absolute terror of being locked up, abused and losing all control over your life.
I’ve been locked up for alledged suicidality and there is no way I’ll talk to any psychiatrist about how I feel ever again.
Most psychopharmalogical research is such trash, that it’s methodology would also show that rum cures the flu.
1. Get a bunch of people payed by the rum industry to be your researchers.
2. Get a bunch of alcoholics with a flu as test subjects.
3. Use water as placebo.
4. Have your scale for flu symptoms also include symptoms caused by alcohol withdrawl like headaches.
5. Subjects on rum will do better.
6. Rum cures the flu proven.
“That aspect of our site is designed to give voice to a community of readers, and given that many in this community had horrible experiences as psychiatric patients (or were forcibly treated in hospitals), you can find such sentiments there.”
At the heart of this is the delusion that proponents of psychiarty are rational and non emotional, while its critics are irrational and emotional.*
It is delusional for two reasons:
1. Psychiatrist are not unemotional. Critics of psychiatry being right would turn their life into a lie and make them criminals of the worst sort. Psychiatrists can not face this.
2. Critics of psychiatry are not irrational. It is the critics of psychiatry interpreting the data in a rational way. I.e. forced deprivation of liberty in case of suicide risk. Someone feeling better and becoming less suicidal by being locked up against their will is a very strong claim and counter to common human experience, therefore it would need strong evidence to support it. Alas there is none. Yet “experts” claim it’s the right thing to do.
*That’s tied into the sexism of man=rational=good and woman=emotional=bad. But that’s taking it too far here.
I work with teens and young adults with autism diagnosises. I estimate at least 1/3 of them to be complete bullshit. As in no or barely any autistic traits whatsoever. Often times it is parents who have severe problems themselves, mistreat their kids and then seek a diagnosis, when the kids behavioural problems are actually caused by their own abuse. (Psyhiatrist assesment) ADOS right on the cutoff with a way higher (parental assesment) ADI-R is more common than not. Some of them have done a (self assesment) AQ, none of them qualified for autism on that.
The collusion/codependance between psychiatry and the justice system is the worst of it all.
Psychiatrist can imprison, abuse and murder people basically at will, because judiciary is turning a blind eye in exchange for diagnosis of people they deem especially dangerous.
The missing 83% are most likely just arbitrariness in diagnosis.
They told the judge I might be schizophrenic. They just knew it was bullshit. After they withheld the court order from me, I got hold of it through a lawyer. Confronted with their bullshit they didn’t even try to defend it. They also withheld parts of the documentation from me and still are four years later. Going so far as to have their secretary lying to me about never receiving my request to see the documentation, while taking notes on that very request.
In Germany there has to be an ICD-10 diagnosis for reimbursement by insurance companies. The diagnosis towards the insurance company was adjustment disorder.
One of the psychos also gave me that crap about not putting people in boxes when asked for a diagnosis. Pretty insulting considering I was actually locked up in a very real box without a reason given.
The imaginary dialogue really hit home. I’ve had basically the same dialogue with a psychiatrist, when I was locked up in a psych ward. As it was never disclosed to me what mental illness I was supposed to have, I made a point of asking every day.
Me: can I go home now?
Psycho: no
Me: so have you made up your mind about what I have?
Psycho: you’re in crisis.
Me: that’s no category of icd 10 and the only crisis I’m in is being locked up here.
Psycho: you aren’t locked up. You are accomodated (orig. german: untergebracht).
Me: are you an idiot?
Psycho: ….
It’s a good write up.
Yeah Steve,
The percentage of wrong convictions is also waaaaay lower. >95% of alleged suicidals who get hospitalized involuntarily would not have killed themselves anyway. If a judge would have a rate of >95% of his convicted being not guilty, I’d expect him to quit his job on the spot.
Exactly.
She got lucky and doesn’t even know it.
“…lacking direct experimental confirmation…”
That’s not how science works. To test a hypothesis you try to prove it wrong. You don’t confirm it.
Also the chemical imbalance theory dates back to the 4 humors in ancient greece.
Who let these pseudointelectuals anywhere near a university?
There is no ethical dilemma.
That would require working treatments. There are none. If there were working treatments, you’d get the dilemma of helping someone against their will. That’s not the case. Coerced psychiatry is harming people against their will, while under the delusion of helping. That’s abuse. It is the same thing abusive parents do, when they hit their child to “fix” it.
Death penalty is barbaric.
Every life saved from it is a good thing, even if it was done for the wrong reasons.
Great summary of psychiatrys core problems.
“Understandable” is an important concept. Most behaviours are if you actually know the background.
It’s going to take a while until this becomes mainstream with all the financial and power interests in keeping the status quo.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/bs.3830010402
It has somehat fallen out of favour in psychology, but is still noted for its importance in the beginnings of systemtheory.
Great article.
I’ve been thinking along similar lines although in different language.
To me coercive psychiatry commits acts of hate in the name of (twisted) love, thereby creating the double binds Bateson theorized to cause schizophrenia.
Even assuming there is a genetically caused thing one could call schizophrenia, it would never be found, because the diagnostic process is such trash, that it barely improves upon monkeys assigning diagnosis by throwing darts. If even at all.
If most of the people called schizophrenic in fact aren’t, you’re not going to find what causes schizophrenia.
Assume schizophrenia is 100% explained by genetics. For a study of the entire genome to find only 2%, you’d have to have 98% missdiagnosis ratio.
*Thumps up*
“It is an uphill battle convincing my parents and nurse practitioner that these medications are more harmful than helpful.”
Your parents should support you as long as your goals aren’t immoral. Helping someone isn’t about forcing your goals on them. I hope they will find the strength to realise that, even if they have doubts.
I also hope you will find your place in the economy while upholding your morals. Not all commerce is bad. There’s nothing wrong with building tables or houses, growing crops, writing books and many other occupations.
You’ll find your way.
Good point.
Also anyone who claims to be right because he is an expert probably lacks expertise, while anyone with expertise will explain why they are right instead of claiming to be an expert.
It’s unbelievable such a barbaric treatment is still in use.
Would you try fixing a computer by random electric shocks? No? How about a brain, which is infinitely more complex and less understood?
Looking forward to this.
On the Kuhn part. Planck said it shorter (and way more pessimistic):
“A new scientific truth does not tend to assert itself in such a way that its opponents are convinced and declare themselves to be lectured, but rather by the fact that the opponents are gradually dying out and that the growing generation is familiar with the truth from the outset.”
Dying is a bit harsh. Retiring would be enough.
“Having a crisis is not an illness!”
Actual conversation from when I was locked up ina psych ward. I was never told a diagnosis, so I made a point of asking every day.
Me: can I go now?
Psycho: No.
Me: so have you figured out what I habe?
Psycho: you have a crisis.
Me: that’s not a category of ICD-10 and the only crisis I have is being locked up here. Are you an idiot?
Psycho: *silence*
Horrible those kids go from one hell to another.
They even get blamed for it by labeling them with a diagnosis, while in reality they have “shitty parents syndrome”.
Steve,
Literally everything will be interpreted as sign of mental illness.
I couldn’t sleep during my first night locked up. Pretty normal considering the circumstances. Quite a lot of people get stressed out to the point where they can’t sleep by far less, like going on vacation the day after. Not for psychiatrists. They wanted me to take neuroleptics for that.
I asked what the “up to” part of “can be held up to day X” in the court order meant. To the psychiatrist that was “concretism” and a sign of schizophrenia. To anyone else that would have been a perfectly normal question.
The psychiatrists I dealt with were mentally ill themself. Not surprising when your day job consists of abusing people, who in turn hate your guts and show it.
Thank you, Paula, and please keep your work.
Half a world away and that still mirrors what I experienced closely
Secret and bullshit diagnosis? Check.
Being pushed towards medication for no reason? Check.
The feeling it was about money? Check. (I got asked by one of the docs if I thought it was about money without me ever thinking or saying anything like that prior. It was her thought. I thought of them as merely incompetent.)
.
.
.
Miata? Check. xD
Boans,
That sounds horrible. Where do you live, if I may ask. So I can never go there…
30 watt,
I can relate. I luckily have some friends who know the story and are sympathetic. I’ve also lost some people. They usually gave the “advice” to talk about it with a therapist.
I never know when to bring it up with new people.
It has been a significant contributor to losing a romantic relationship.
Sam,
Gladly I’ve never been raped, but it is the only analogy I can think of. Total powerlessness.
I’ve had my life believably threatened by someone and there was a moment I thought I’d die, but I called the cops, he got sentenced and it took a whileybut I’m over it now. Thoughts about it are rare and not threatening anymore.
Being locked up in a psychward was so much worse it wasn’t in the same ballpark, the same league, the same friggin universe. It haunts me to this day. I’ll never get justice. (But I have a bottle of Champagne reserved for the day coercive psychiatry gets outlawed here.)
And I got lucky. It was just 7 days. I did not take any drugs. I got rid of the alledged schizophrenia diagnosis. I’m certain I walked with minor injuries compared to many others. Survivors guilt ain’t no fun either.
I hope you can find a doc you can trust for physical needs.
“Fear of being called mentally ill and all that follows from that, including losing support from friends and family, who want you to confine your talk to a therapist behind closed doors, just take psychiatric drugs, and/or agree to be hospitalized.”
You are understating this.
It is absolute terror of being locked up, abused and losing all control over your life.
I’ve been locked up for alledged suicidality and there is no way I’ll talk to any psychiatrist about how I feel ever again.
Most psychopharmalogical research is such trash, that it’s methodology would also show that rum cures the flu.
1. Get a bunch of people payed by the rum industry to be your researchers.
2. Get a bunch of alcoholics with a flu as test subjects.
3. Use water as placebo.
4. Have your scale for flu symptoms also include symptoms caused by alcohol withdrawl like headaches.
5. Subjects on rum will do better.
6. Rum cures the flu proven.
“That aspect of our site is designed to give voice to a community of readers, and given that many in this community had horrible experiences as psychiatric patients (or were forcibly treated in hospitals), you can find such sentiments there.”
At the heart of this is the delusion that proponents of psychiarty are rational and non emotional, while its critics are irrational and emotional.*
It is delusional for two reasons:
1. Psychiatrist are not unemotional. Critics of psychiatry being right would turn their life into a lie and make them criminals of the worst sort. Psychiatrists can not face this.
2. Critics of psychiatry are not irrational. It is the critics of psychiatry interpreting the data in a rational way. I.e. forced deprivation of liberty in case of suicide risk. Someone feeling better and becoming less suicidal by being locked up against their will is a very strong claim and counter to common human experience, therefore it would need strong evidence to support it. Alas there is none. Yet “experts” claim it’s the right thing to do.
*That’s tied into the sexism of man=rational=good and woman=emotional=bad. But that’s taking it too far here.
I work with teens and young adults with autism diagnosises. I estimate at least 1/3 of them to be complete bullshit. As in no or barely any autistic traits whatsoever. Often times it is parents who have severe problems themselves, mistreat their kids and then seek a diagnosis, when the kids behavioural problems are actually caused by their own abuse. (Psyhiatrist assesment) ADOS right on the cutoff with a way higher (parental assesment) ADI-R is more common than not. Some of them have done a (self assesment) AQ, none of them qualified for autism on that.
The collusion/codependance between psychiatry and the justice system is the worst of it all.
Psychiatrist can imprison, abuse and murder people basically at will, because judiciary is turning a blind eye in exchange for diagnosis of people they deem especially dangerous.
The missing 83% are most likely just arbitrariness in diagnosis.
They told the judge I might be schizophrenic. They just knew it was bullshit. After they withheld the court order from me, I got hold of it through a lawyer. Confronted with their bullshit they didn’t even try to defend it. They also withheld parts of the documentation from me and still are four years later. Going so far as to have their secretary lying to me about never receiving my request to see the documentation, while taking notes on that very request.
In Germany there has to be an ICD-10 diagnosis for reimbursement by insurance companies. The diagnosis towards the insurance company was adjustment disorder.
One of the psychos also gave me that crap about not putting people in boxes when asked for a diagnosis. Pretty insulting considering I was actually locked up in a very real box without a reason given.
The imaginary dialogue really hit home. I’ve had basically the same dialogue with a psychiatrist, when I was locked up in a psych ward. As it was never disclosed to me what mental illness I was supposed to have, I made a point of asking every day.
Me: can I go home now?
Psycho: no
Me: so have you made up your mind about what I have?
Psycho: you’re in crisis.
Me: that’s no category of icd 10 and the only crisis I’m in is being locked up here.
Psycho: you aren’t locked up. You are accomodated (orig. german: untergebracht).
Me: are you an idiot?
Psycho: ….