Saturday, February 24, 2018

Comments by registeredforthissite

Showing 100 of 405 comments. Show all.

  • The things that come up when you google search “ADHD *and whatever else* ” make me vomit.

    It is one thing to say that a person is not attentive to certain things. Hell, even if people want to take methylphenidate if it’s helping them concentrate better, let them do it. Just don’t say “ADHD” is causing those behaviours.

    These statements about “brain differences and genetic findings” that get so much attention in the media are disastrous. Kids from abusive homes will display many of the behavioural features associated with terms like “ADHD” , and then be told that they are genetically defective.

  • Disability creation and denial of disability creation is the dark side of propsychiatry.

    It’s good to know that madincanada’s child got the kind of help that benefited him. Others are not so lucky. “Help” butchers them. And not everyone has hallucinations and delusions. And some people do have those things caused by psychiatric drugs, with no incidence of such behaviours prior to psychiatric drug use.

    But, I guess this is well known anyway.

  • Personally, I think there should be places in every country where all prescription drugs are legal for the residents of that place. No need to ship them outside.

    This will allow people who want to take or try whatever it is they want to whilst completely avoiding psychiatry and it will also the first step towards giving them freedom from psychiatric coercion when they want to stop taking them.

    Bad idea? I don’t think so. Perhaps the question is, “What if people take something that is damaging to them?”. Well, if they harm themselves by not gathering the required information first, the responsibility lies with them. What about harming others? Well, sufficient information must be provided regarding the adverse effects of these drugs so that they can understand how to use them or not use them.

    Since the general public might want to stay out of such a place, that’s fine. Just limit such areas to some places. These places will be places where psychiatry can be completely bypassed and must be kept out of.

  • Julie writes: “ED is usually caused by a restrictive diet, that is, CAUSED by controlling your eating habits.

    Let me remove the ED and make it more truthful:

    Extreme overeating is usually caused by a restrictive diet, that is, CAUSED by controlling your eating habits.

    Most people who control their diet don’t engage in extreme over-eating to the point of it becoming physically dangerous even in the short term (as opposed to long term risks of cardiovascular problems etc.) as a result. We would all know at least a few people who have lost weight by regulating their eating. But none of the people I know (which would not be an enormous sample size) who have gone on long term diets ended up overeating to the point of 9000 calories a day.

    In my country, fasting for religious reasons is a common occurrence. People here do it all the time. Again, I’ve never seen anyone end up overeating in an extreme manner due to it. They may overeat for a short duration to ameliorate hunger, but not beyond a point.

    Why it took place in you as an individual would be interesting for you to know. Not in a vague manner with hypotheses or tautological labels, but the proper truth, specific to yourself. Hell, you don’t even need to tell anybody.

    Naturally, problems like this would be prevalent in the wider population. I’ve just never personally met anyone who is a binge eater to the point of it being dangerous on a day-to-day basis.

    Please don’t interpret this as being condescending. There are answers I am searching for with regards to my life as well.

  • What would happen if you tried to control your eating habits? Would it cause you so much anxiety that you would only be able to relieve it if you ate?

    Maybe I’m being crude (and you have also mentioned “Sufferers have reported rude or sarcastic responses to their reports, and many are left feeling shamed or even afraid of bringing it up again.“), but it sounds like a lot of theorizing for the “simple” fact that you would eat way too much, had poor control over it, didn’t like that aspect of yourself, and don’t have a concrete answer as to why it all happened.

    Therapy (especially that directed at eating disorders), can turn into a manipulative game, each trying to outsmart the other. “What did you eat today?” It turns into a cat-and-mouse game that can become fatal. That’s how it was for me toward the end, and I almost died as a result.

    I think this is the case with all therapy. “Therapy” is nonsense. Just a fanciful word for listening and talking inside a closed room. No matter how many scientistic names you give it (CBT or what have you), it is fundamentally just that.

    I was lucky to put an end to all that nonsense. I have had good results by making very simple changes, starting with becoming independent from my prior doctors and therapists, and making my life decisions entirely on my own. I was surprised at how fast I was able to resolve my eating disorder after that. I would suggest doing your own research and empowering yourself to come up with your own solutions.

    Absolutely agree with this. You must break free of the mercy and charity of these people and their poisonous system, which will infantilise you and stultify your potential, all with good intentions.

    Being free of the slavery of therapy helped me take a good rational look at what was best for me.


    I knew I had to regain a sense of passion in my life, passion about something besides losing weight. Where had that gone off to? What had happened to the young and talented music student who first took herself to therapy in 1981 and then never came back?

    Yup. I think a lot of us look back to those times. When the whole world was still in front of you, and your life was not tainted by psychiatry.

  • Yes, I am familiar of such quotes etc. But all this intellectualism is just something for people with a thinking bent of mind to mentally masturbate over.

    While it’s okay for people like Dawkins who are flying around giving speeches and being rockstars in the intellectual world; from being an admirer, I have grown weary of that internet and literary intellectual nonsense.

    The scientific status of psychiatry is a pseudo-problem. It is the first step where psychiatry and anti-psychiatry proponents clash and the argument does not go beyond that, and it just leads to a bunch of quotations of words or journal papers and then some literary jibes.

    Observing the trajectory of a planet is different than creating chemicals in a lab. Performing a surgery is different than writing code to accomplish a specific task. Investigating a murder is different than farming crops.

    These are all different tasks, have different people with different technological and social infrastructures, and different methods of investigation (with some similarities) in order to find out the truth about a specific inquiry. Putting it all under the rubric of “science” and then arguing about whether it is a science or not is a waste of time. Truth is what matters.

    The pertinent questions are regarding what the truth about psychiatry is, the everyday occurrences in the field, what its political, social, medical and legal implications are, how it is misused, and not just “science”.

    Behind psychiatry there is a legal system, a prison system, and social systems of everyday life.

  • I used to read and watch quite a bit of Richard Dawkins several years ago. I am quite familiar with his works, and also with the movement that has sprung partly from his works (Skeptics, Atheists….). It’s all a bit rotten now. Same old stuff. Evolution, atheism, yada yada….It was all very appealing to me in my late teens and early 20s.

    I think you will find the most fervent supporters of psychiatry amongst Richard Dawkins’ followers (from what I’ve heard).

    Several of them see criticism of psychiatry in the same vein as belief in astrology or the tooth fairy or Dawkins’ other favourite hypothetical creature, the “Flying Spaghetti Monster”.

  • I found the part about you not being allowed to go into the hospital because you were from an “antipsychiatry” organisation to be interesting. It’s a self-defense mechanism. Everyone has one.

    What if someone locked up in a “hospital” finds it to be the most abhorrent and traumatising time of their life? If an antipsychiatry person ends up getting them out and helping them, and then that person (whom you just got out) upholds your views, well, then he’s just antipsychiatry now too.

    The power roles thing is something we already know. I liked the part about the person playing the role of psychiatrist in the commitment hearing having a very flat affect and strange speech pattern himself.

    And yes, “antipsychiatry” is almost a diagnosis now. Antipsychiatry, critical psychiatry, pro-psychiatry; these words just mean “crank”, “moderate” and “scientific” respectively (depending on who you ask).

    Your views are seen as too extreme? You have to justify it by saying you’re “critical psychiatry”. It’s all rubbish.

    But hey, it’s all politics at the end of the day. Makes me wonder why I’m even writing this comment. It’s all obvious.

  • Dr. Hickey,

    Any young credentialed people coming up in the “Phil Hickey school of psychology”? Heaven knows you’re old and when you’re gone, there will be no one else to take up your mantle (at least not in the way you do).

    Also, since you have worked in prisons, it would be very interesting to know of your experiences amongst prison inmates and your findings regarding problems in living, thinking and feeling in prison, because I am sure there will be a relatively large population in prisons with all kinds of problems hidden under all kinds of DSM labels. Why don’t you write something regarding that? It would be most illuminating.

  • I think they are simply mind-altering drugs and like every other mind-altering drug they have their properties.

    I suppose most of the anger comes from people having them forced onto them, not being told what the harms of them can be, being mislabelled with disorders for the negative effects of the drugs, ending up with permanent disabilities, or being prescribed them based on the notion that they are “treating X condition”, when what they are more practically doing is changing a person’s thinking in a certain way or suppressing certain behaviours and feelings.

    If they were completely legal (not just by prescription) and voluntary, and were never forced on to people, or actually had full disclosure of what they really do, people may have talked about them a bit differently.

    P.S. I’m not in anyway trying to mitigate the harm that they can cause.

  • What are you saying? Why do you think that I’m in any way implying that the body should be less resilient than it is?

    And yes, that is the example I gave and said that you gave the exact same example, and I mentioned that there are other things the body can’t fix by itself, or things which become worse if treatment is not received.

  • Great. Text about neurotransmitters and receptors.

    Once again, no mention of what foods to eat in what quantities to gain the right amounts of the aformentioned nutrients.

    2 bananas a day? An apple?

    There is also no need to complicate things beyond what a layman needs to know. Nobody cares about NMDA receptors except those who take an interest in reading about them or do work associated with needing that knowledge.

  • That depends on what we are talking about. Some fevers due to common microbial agents, headaches etc., sure.

    But there are other things the body can’t simply fix properly on its own.

    Hell, I’d say make all mind altering prescription drugs legal in some places as well (with full disclosure about their effects on the body and any contraindications), so that those who want to take them can avoid psychiatry as an intermediary altogether.

    Drugs don’t take themselves. If someone finds some kind of relief from a sedative or an SSRI, let them try it (with instructions on how to do it in a safe manner), take it and stop it when they want to. It’s a lot better than giving yourself into a system which could force horrible crap on you, label you, indoctrinate your family, disease-monger and stultify your life. Easier said than done, but it’s possible in some places.

  • Frankly, I hope a day comes in the future when every human being has enough medical knowledge to reduce his/her dependence on other human beings who take up the role of medical doctors in society, so as to not be on the mercy and charity of other people for something as fundamental as our own health.

    Knowledge about our own bodies and how to ameliorate ailments must be as fundamental as learning a language or knowing how to count.

    Basic physiology, anatomy, pharmacology; at least the stuff that’s learnt in basic medical graduation.

    A person may not be able to do everything for himself/herself (like I can’t do a kidney transplant on myself), but one can learn to know signs and symptoms of infectious diseases, endocrinological conditions, heart conditions etc., and with enough knowledge make lifestyle changes or take (what are now prescription only) drugs (whilst also knowing their positive and negative effects, contraindications etc.). One could even read about them, and ask and observe 10 different people (hell, now with networking, maybe 1000s of people) who have similar problems.

    A risky and horrible idea? Maybe. But that depends on who is considering the idea.

  • As an extension to the above, some of the other things are:

    1.) Labelling of effects of psychiatric drugs as new illnesses (antidepressant or stimulant induced mania gets turned into “bipolar disorder”).

    2.) Gaslighting and the social, legal and political misuse of DSM labels to harass people, defame and lie about them.

    3.) The medicalisation of socio-legal problems into “brain disorders” in victims of abuse.

  • People should simply leave topics like climate change, vaccines, homeopathy, astrology, HIV being causative of AIDS etc., out of critical discussions of psychiatry. There is no need for comparisons with any of those things. When talking of psychiatry, talk of psychiatry. I think that’s the best rule to follow.

    It is one of the tactics used by skeptic movement dilettantes and pro-psychiatry activists to correlate people who abhor psychiatry with other groups like “climate change deniers, HIV/AIDS denial etc.”. It is also a tactic that has worked well (even unintentionally) to sell the public a lie which they find out too late. No wonder there are people who consider people who abhor psychiatry to be scientologists or whatever.

    Those talking about psychiatry are talking about psychiatry. No need to obfuscate that by bringing in the rest of the stuff.

    Also, I think, debates regarding “the scientific status of psychiatry” are a pseudo-problem for intellectuals to mentally masturbate over while neglecting truth.

    Observing the trajectory of a planet is different than building a car engine. Performing surgery is different than creating optimal paths for roadways. Creating chemicals in a lab is different than writing code to perform a specific task.

    All these activities have different people, different methods of investigation, different processes etc. involved in order to find the truth about a specific inquiry. Subsuming them all under “Science” and then debating whether something is “Science” or not is a futile exercise.

    This whole “science” charade in psychiatry, with all the advertising of brain scans, its journal publications etc. completely removes the focus from what psychiatry is like in real life, and what its social, legal, physical, medical and political consequences are. What is required for people to know is the truth.

    The truth is that only a few things happen in everyday psychiatry:

    1.) Listening and talking.

    2.) Labelling of individuals, which rob away their life’s truths, and can have egregious social, medical, legal and political consequences, sometimes permanent.

    3.) Prescribing drugs, which can also have egregious consequences.

    4.) Infantilisation and coercion, which ranges from subtle to extreme and so on.

  • Ah man, I didn’t mean it in the way you’re implying. Maybe “choosing” was the wrong word? I have no problem if you ARE homosexual, heterosexual or transgender. Is that better?

    See, this is the thing. I tried wording the thing in order to be as understanding as possible, and it’s still such a touchy subject, which is why it is fearsome to even write anything about it. One wrong word or comment can bring hell on to you.

  • This is the part that really scares me about countries like the US (and whichever other countries have recording systems like that). There is no escape huh?

    It is almost psychopathic, the way the system is constructed. No wonder some people with such labels that have robbed away their life’s truths are afraid to seek medical care for even physical problems.

    I fear that so-called developing nations will adopt this same model under the guise of “progress”.

  • The prescription reinforces the diagnosis. The patient accepts the diagnosis as valid the day she pops the first pill. They are compliant. They believe. They take the drug acknowledging the validity of psychiatry. Few question the validity of the label. They take the little pink pill and they are a patient for life. There are no cures. ”

    There was a time when I had this phase. Complete indoctrination in the language of DSM labelling.

    Frankly, it isn’t even the pills in and of themselves that are dangerous. People can start and stop pills whenever they want to, if it were under their voluntary control. It’s the middle-men, the shrinks, the labellers and defamers, that are dangerous. They rob away the truths of people’s lives by defaming them with DSM garbage, and can force unwanted drugs down people’s throats. And once labelled, anyone biologically related to the labelled individual is at risk.

    And the people who accept these labels as “a part of them” are as dangerous as the labellers too. They truly lack insight into the damage they are doing to themselves, and some of them will even spread around the acceptance of these labels with truly good intentions of helping others.

    It isn’t that the thoughts, features and life experiences associated with these terms aren’t real. Sure, they are. But the truth about an individual is descriptive. The life experiences and even underlying biology of two people labelled with the same set of labels will not be the same.

    It’s ridiculous to justify using them by saying that “syndromal concepts” exist in other fields of medicine. Saying that someone’s leg has “chronic compartment syndrome”, is different than labelling a man a “schizophrenic” or “bipolar”. The social, political, and legal implications of DSM terminology is different than that of other fields of medicine.

  • Whatever the case may be for the merits of nutrients (which I would whole heartedly support), it is absolutely necessary to bash truth-obfuscating and disempowering labels that have ruined so many lives.

    If you “also don’t like it”, then stop talking of “ADHD children”. Put something more truthful like “inattentive children” in the title.

  • It doesn’t matter which country a person is from, be it the US, UK, Israel, India etc. Psychiatry is psychiatry everywhere.

    I am tired and angry with seeing people end up in the victim role, begging people/institutions, be it professionals or courts of law, to basically “be nice” and not harm them. Makes one very vengeful, doesn’t it? There is really no justice too. Will anyone even see you as a rational person once you’re labelled with DSM nonsense? They are practically caricatures of people.

    It doesn’t matter how good the intentions of the staff are (or aren’t). The only way we can protect vulnerable people is by making sure they have safe spaces, and don’t end up in these places in the first place, where they will be labelled and may have horrible drugs forced on them.

    Having the “right to choose” between “hospitals” is akin to choosing between being shat on by a cow or a goat or a hippo. It’s no choice at all.

    I hope you find peace.

  • Don’t forget the number of teenagers that are prescribed SSRIs because they are depressed or anxious (for whatever reasons), some of whom then go on to experience SSRI induced mania which is then re-labelled or re-branded as “bipolar disorder”.

    Once a person is labelled this way, it is not just he/she who is in danger, but anyone biologically related to him/her. Said person will become a “family history of ‘bipolar disorder’ ” to his/her biological relatives.

    The next doctor who sees a relative of the initially labelled person may not even look at the actual history of how the original person came to be labelled that way, but will certainly see the “diagnosis”/label.

    I say this from practical experience.

  • @oldhead: I answered that in the very same paragraph.

    @Frank: “I would even give your crazy woman, this village idiot of yours, the right to a trial before I would see her incarcerated, even if the prison to which she would be confined claims to be a hospital. Locking this woman up without a trial, if we are to allude to the origin of the word, would be to show her an extreme lack of hospitality on our part. It would not be the courteous thing to do. “

    I agree.

  • There’s a lot of talk on this site about abolishing psychiatry. This would imply removal of psychiatry as a medical specialty in all hospitals, a complete shutting down of all psychiatric wards everywhere, a complete abolition on medical licenses dished out relating to psychiatry and psychology.

    Now, let’s imagine a world where this has happened. What do you do when some individuals believe that aliens are communicating with them via radiowaves? Who might make incisions into their bodies to remove a non-existent alien chip? People who are chronically psychotic, who hallucinate and see things which aren’t there and can literally do very little in terms of having a productive life? Now, if these people are non-violent and non-disruptive, there is no need to bother them. If some of them are non-violent but disruptive (like disrupting public spaces), they will be forcibly removed which may again make them violent and compel people to treat them in some form or the other.

    I remember an absolutely psychotic woman who was totally unclean and used to roam around randomly, who would take up space in a small bus stand in the town where I lived in. She had to be removed from there because she was a nuisance for the people who had to board their buses. I once tried approaching this lady, simply out of curiosity, to ask her what her name was, and she ran towards me with a brick to hit me. I ran for my life. In a shrink’s office, this woman would definitely be labelled a “schizophrenic”. But that is not her truth.

    Psychiatry for most of us who are coherent people able to think and write in a relatively logical manner is an absolute curse. This has nothing to do with maintaining voluntary relationships of listening and talking to people, nor with voluntary consumption of drugs. Neither of these things mandate the requirements for psychiatrists in between. Drug companies make drugs. Not psychiatrists. And drugs don’t take themselves. Psychiatrists either prescribe them to people or force them to take them and do not tell the whole truth about these pills. So, mostly, they are dangerous middle-men who label and defame people.

    But, the existence of that small subset of individuals who are on the extreme end of the spectrum will always be a reason to have some sort of organisation/intervention to monitor and take care of them. Let’s say you abolish all of psychiatry. Well, something else will definitely take its place.

    What I would like to see is firstly, an abolition of all forms of psychiatric DSM/ICD labelling. These labels are tautologies and truth-obfuscating. No wonder the public thinks of “schizophrenics and bipolars running amok on the streets”. A removal of these terms would imply that people get closer to thinking in terms of the truth. Some psychotic people may run amok on the streets. Some of them may have become like that due to abuse and others may be like that due to some inherent features. The former are people who may be hurt by psychiatry. The latter are people we can’t do much about. None of these people are “bipolar or schizophrenic”. Each person is who he/she is as an individual and has a truth (both biological and environmental) specific to them. So, in that sense, these labels are nonsense.

    The truth is descriptive. “A person was born here. He had these circumstances growing up. These things happened to him. He did so-and-so things etc.”. Even biologically, the truth specific to an individual has nothing to do with the junk they are labelled with.

    Also, due to a small subset of people, everyone else, who is hardly anything like them, is getting affected. Why butcher the lives of otherwise healthy males and females?

    People here talk of abolition. But they mention absolutely no solutions as to what they would do with some of these individuals on the extreme end of the curve. Unless you find a solution to that, the public would NEVER agree to an abolition of psychiatry.

    You people are really irrational to think that you could ever achieve that.

  • You don’t need labels to consume pills. You are free to consume as much Triavil as you want, if it makes you feel better.

    Maybe what YOU have (which your shrink has labelled as “schizoaffective disorder”) is a bio-genetic brain disease. Don’t drag everyone else into it.

    Also, the author may not have an MD. But that does not matter. A lot of the problems that psychiatry subsumes under its banner have nothing to do with medicine.

    Also, naturally you would have people other than MDs to write about certain issues because MDs just parrot the standard party line.

    The “you are not a medical doctor” line is quite futile on MIA. Many here are tired of being at the pseudo-mercy and pseudo-charity of medical psychiatry doctors who provide no answers, but do engage in dangerous and defamatory labeling and drugging.

    We are all searching for the truth specific to ourselves. Psychiatry gives no answers. Just labels and pills.

    Do you understand what a specific truth is?

    Person has a fever. Why? Because plasmodium falciparum (as an example) was found in his body.

    Person (like you) has suicidal tendencies. Why? Because of “schioaffective disorder”. And I suppose a “diagnosis” of “headache disorder” for headaches is also valid because aspirin makes it better.

    Before you bother telling me that descriptive “diagnoses” exist in other medical fields, know that flaws in other medical fields do not absolve flaws in psychiatry. Also, the social, political and legal implications of psychiatric labelling are very different than non-psychiatric labels.

    You also have no biological proof (not behavioural proof) specific to yourself that what you have is a “bio-genetic brain disease”.

    Perhaps then, it is best to say “I don’t exactly know why but I feel bad and the pills make me feel better and that is why I take them” and leave it at that.

    And as John Hoggett pointed out, if the shrink had given you a different “diagnosis”/label and the same pill, you would have been on here saying that that disorder is a bio-genetic brain disease.

    Trust me (I have been there), you are doing a disservice to yourself with your mentality, and this has nothing to do with whether or not you want to take pills.

  • Does one need a study to make out that the rates of suicide in prison will obviously be higher? If you have a life sentence, you will rot in there forever. Death is naturally a more desirable option.

    If you are not in for a life sentence, you may still not have much of a life outside with a criminal record.

    The only thing they need to stop in prisons is sexual assault. That is all.

  • Lawrence Kemelson writes:

    “The concept of “mental illness” takes away people’s free will to adaptively cope with life’s struggles in ways of their own choosing, and puts it into the hands of medical authorities who claim to know the best way to cope, claim that they’re the only ones who can “heal”, and have been given power by the state to enforce compliance with their “treatments” which usually benefit the state rather than the client. I read Szasz’s “The Myth of Mental Illness” before starting my psychiatric residency training, so I was not disillusioned – I knew this was a big part of my field, and spoke against it during my residency, for which I was nearly thrown out of the program.”

    “It’s not my place to claim that my medical education has given me any answers.”

    This is one of the most positively amazing things I have heard a psychiatrist write. If the majority of people in the “medical profession” of psychiatry thought like this, it would collapse a large part of the work-force.

  • @ Stephen:

    My point is, that a lot of it is nonsense. It’s simply playing to the mind-brain correlation of behaviours.

    It is worthless mental masturbation in everyday life, and it is screwing over people.

  • A person I know, recently had seizures. There’s no history of epilepsy in the person’s family. We were all a bit perturbed as to how it happened.

    After tests, we found out that eggs of a worm formed cysts inside the person’s brain. They call it “neurocystic sarcosis”.

    Imagine the doctors labelled this person with “seizure disorder” and only gave him/her anti-convulsants. He/she would be dead.

    This is what psychiatry is doing. They are defaming and ruining people’s lives.

  • Look at these idiots. This is from Natasha Tracy’s post titled: ”
    Are All Doctors, Psychiatrists and Scientists Lying All the Time?”, where a person “Riley C” writes:

    “Do any of you anti psychiatry [moderated] have a PhD in psychology? I do. Psychiatric disorders have been proven time and time again to be brain disorders! You can tell from a PET scan or a fMRI if a person has schizophenia. Such as large ventricles and frontal cortex atrophy. Similar things are seen in bipolar disorder. You antipsychritry morons should be [moderated].

    Moderator – I understand how frustrated you are with these groups as I feel the same way but we have rules here as to how people treat each other and you can’t say those kinds of things here.”

    These fools are still listing the mind-brain relation, which we all know. Why don’t they talk about the people that they are labelling as “bipolar” due to the effects of their own drugs (mania caused by psychiatric drugs)? And if the scans are so specific, why not use them to separate (in a blind fashion), 50 people who have X disorder vs 50 people who have nothing and prove that those mental states are primarily biological in every single human being with that label and have little to do with the shit that they have faced? They can’t. They accuse us of mind-brain duality, but they use the same paltry “mental activity is correlated with brain activity” argument everywhere, as if that is some new truth.

    I suppose “Riley C” feeling like taking a dump when he is supposed to attend an important meeting is also a “brain disorder” because it is correlated with some brain activity inside his thick skull.

    We know that these people aren’t “evil and always ‘lying’ “. That does not matter. Their intentions and benevolence are a secondary thing.

    Granted that this is from 2011, and a lot can change in 6 years, but I hope this person has understood something by now. If “Ph.Ds” in Psychology are like this, they are a friggin’ danger to people.

  • What psychiatrists, DSM and psychiatric labelling do really well is rob the truth of people’s lives away from them.

    You label people with 2 labels, it will look like they have 2 “illnesses”. You label them with 5 labels, it will look like they have 5 “illnesses”.

    When the consequences of said labelling have to be faced by the person labelled with this junk, the cowardly bastards (the psychiatrists) are nowhere to be found. In fact, sometimes they will blame you, the screwed over person, for the consequences of their own disgusting methods.

    The truth about a person is always descriptive. Causes and effects. Causal factors and effects.

    People tell you junk like “labels guide ‘treatment'”, which is utter bullshit. If anything, they make everything worse, because you are basing your conclusions on false knowledge. It’s like labelling people with “fever disorder” and “headache disorder”. The worst part is, once a person is labelled, they put everyone who is biologically related to them at risk, because they will then become their “family history”. DSM labels are not family histories. An actual history when it comes to a person’s life is descriptive.

    Imagine the number of kids with attention problems or anxiety/depression (for whatever reasons) who have been prescribed Ritalin and SSRIs, who have gone on to experience manic episodes due to those drugs, and now they are labelled with “co-morbid conditions” like ” ‘ADHD’+ ‘Bipolar Disorder’ ” or ” ‘OCD’+ ‘Bipolar Disorder’ “. Disgusting.

    If you are physically assaulted, you can even go to the police. What can you do if psychiatry and psychiatric terminology is being used to harass, defame and gaslight you? You can’t even get justice. This has been happening to me for years, and I have been able to do nothing about it.

    Day by day, I am losing hope. I can understand why someone like Matt Stevenson killed himself (not that I want to die).

    DSM labelling is defamation and libel. That is it.

  • Why do these articles on “manic-depression and the brain blah blah” never talk about antidepressant induced mania? That you guys are labelling people as manic-depressives/bipolars because of the effects of your own drugs?

    More importantly, why do they not tell the truth? Nobody in clinical psychiatry is checking anybody’s brain. Those articles are nothing more than useless mental masturbation.

    What psychiatry definitely is doing is labelling people with defamatory tautological labels, obfuscating an individual’s truth and providing no concrete biological evidence in any specific individual in real life (when I say real life, I mean everyday people, not research and journal papers).

    Also, when I say “biological evidence”, I don’t mean simple brain correlations. We all know that pretty much everything we do will be associated with something in our brains. That is meaningless.

    All pro-biopsychiatry related articles on the internet hide the truth about real life occurrences in psychiatry. All you do is talk to people and give them drugs. Nobody needs psychiatrists to consume drugs. Talking to you guys is dangerous too.

    False biological arguments are used to ruin people’s lives (even if unintentionally). Criminal justice issues are turned into medical problems. Problems in living are biologised. Hell, argumentation with psychiatrists is dangerous. All it does is get you deeper into the brothel of psychiatry.

  • One look at doglegblog’s Pininterest page and her links to bullet points about “mental illness”, “bipolar disorder” etc. show that she might be from the type of crowd that hangs around websites like Healthy Place, Crazy Meds etc.

    These people’s ideas are even more harmful and dangerous than the murderers and maimers she’s talking about. They are promoting and marketing the all too common “myth of mental illness” (the way it is promoted today) and will result in multitudes of people, especially youngsters, devalue themselves, end up being dependent on a system and a community that will never truly allow them to reach their fullest potential in life (all with supposedly benevolent intentions of course).

  • I think streetphotobeing making an assumption about why you drink is not appropriate.

    And yes, ” ‘bipolar disorder’ is a real disease”, just like ” ‘fever disorder’ is a real disease which ’causes’ elevated body temperature” and ” ‘headache disorder’ is a real disease which ’causes’ one’s head to ache.”

    No one is saying what you aren’t experiencing is real. Just don’t expect people to agree with your truth-obfuscating terminology.

    Also, do you realise people are being stamped with the label of “bipolar disorder” for the iatrogenic effects of the very drugs that psychiatrists prescribe (like mania caused by antidepressants or stimulants)?

  • dogleblog writes :“I am perfectly happy to be on my “cocktail” of meds for my bipolar disorder II, BPD, and anxiety”

    This actually tells me hardly anything about what you find problematic in yourself except a few labels.

    “These drugs–whether from a farm or Big Pharma or a mad scientist’s basement–have saved my life. I no longer drink until I black-out, I no longer go home with complete strangers from bars (neither do I drink anymore), and I am making better decisions (although I still struggle to have normal interactions with people–I fear I will always say inappropriate things and hurt people and drive them away. A recent ex-friend said I was too “intense”).”

    In other words, one set of drugs that you don’t give shit about (in terms of how they came into being), makes you feel better than another drug that you don’t give a shit about.

    “As I am 53 years old, I don’t see another way to control my behavior. And yes, I go to therapy (when I can find a good one) and that has helped me see how skewed my view of relationships and how I insist that people conform to my way of thinking. “

    Do you really think you should need people playing the role of mental health workers OR psychiatric labels to consume something that, in simple terms, and in your own view, helps you perform better?

    “Does no one have a similar experience to mine? Perhaps if I had been diagnosed when my symptoms became noticeable (around ages 5 to 10) and had been shown another way to communicate, my life would have met its potential rather than being a series of emergencies and deep depressions and very, very poor decisions (before being medicated).”

    It sounds like you’re someone who finds taking some drugs helpful, but has no idea how deep the negative consequences of psychiatrists, and truth-obfuscating labelling can go.

    Perhaps if I had been diagnosed when my symptoms became noticeable (around ages 5 to 10) and had been shown another way to communicate, my life would have met its potential rather than being a series of emergencies and deep depressions and very, very poor decisions (before being medicated).

    Don’t be too sure of that. You may have ended up not even being where you are right now.

  • I have a sickeningly abusive father too. He has been lying about me (which are either complete lies, or bits of truth with lies added to them [which makes them more convincing]), gaslighting me and using psychiatry, psychiatric labels and arguments of being “genetically defective” against me since I was a kid. There’s some stuff here that goes back to before I was born.

    The fact that he is also a surgeon, and has a whole family of 7 siblings, with 19 children between them and a whole host of other supporters who love and support him due to self-preservation, his surgical skills and wealth and due to the fact that accepting or admitting that the man is abusive might make them accomplices (by support) in his abuse and ruin the reputation of their families, adds to his ability to be abusive.

    So many times, and so often, I have lived (and continue to) in utter terror, and a feeling of total helplessness (and even feeling crazy and acting odd due to the gaslighting) from the abuse, and about not being able to do anything regarding it because I am the one who is labelled and the man has completely escaped psychiatry and can actually use it against me.

    I also have a mother, who despite his abuse continued to live with my father. While generally being loving in terms of maternal instincts, she would use me as a scapegoat in her arguments with her husband, practically begging him to love me, and using his maltreatment towards me as an excuse to make him see, what a shitty husband he is. All it would do is make him even more abusive. She also could not understand what she was doing. I have grown just as angry with her as with him. The fact that she plays victim without understanding that she turned me into a victim just like her is even more rage-inducing.

    My whole childhood (and youth), my house was a war-zone with the worst expletives and abuses flying around every 5 seconds, and my father’s loud, guttural village voice booming through the halls. I get very anxious just listening to it or even the sight of him (like Pavlov’s dog, a conditioned response).

    Add to this that when I was at home, my mental state got so bad that when I was not thinking about my father, I had all these weird obsessional thoughts associated with the fear of losing control of something valuable. For example, if my mother bought me a second hand textbook, I had this completely irrational obsession (which I fully recognised as being irrational) that somehow any success in understanding the text would be credited to the original owner. It would make it really hard to study. The underlying fear here was losing the ability to study and not being independently successful. I had many more quirky obsessions of this nature associated with, as I said, losing the ability to do something of value to me. Perhaps there is a disposition to this (?), but nothing a few simple interventions (which exclude mental health workers of all kinds) cannot fix. But problems in living, and abusive psychopaths, are not solved by modifying brain chemistry with drugs, nor by incessant “therapy” (aka listening and talking). All that stuff does is make one even more miserable and is even dangerous.

    It took me 10 years to understand that the obsessional thoughts I had were all things related to the fear of losing control, because all psychiatrists did was stamp me with a tautological labels, which I thought of as explanatory, instead of descriptive, and viewed my whole life through the prism of those labels. Between around the age of 18-23, I would incessantly read about psychiatry, watch medical lectures on YouTube (on neuroscience, psychiatry, genetics etc.) and I pathologised my own life, disease mongered (apart from psychiatrists doing this), in an attempt to understand myself, and my father. I had this whole phase where like a lot of teenagers I read Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion, The Greatest Show On Earth: The Evidence For Evolution etc. ), was influenced by the atheist and skeptic movements (and even mocked antipsychiatry people), watched rubbish like the “Charlie Rose Brain(less) Series” etc.

    I feel so SO stupid when I look back at my stupidity in the past.

    I left home when I was 16, unable to bear that man.

    I was prescribed SSRIs for my mental state, due to which I experienced multiple episodes of antidepressant induced mania which, when they happened, made me, on one instance (on Sertaline) relatively mildly manic [probably due to the dosage and duration of use] (surprisingly to me, my fear of my father was replaced with confidence, the obsessional thoughts disappeared and I felt good) and on another occasion (on fluvoxamine) totally manic and psychotic (again due to the dosage and duration of use), and which resulted in a bipolar diagnosis (due to the effects of the antidepressants, not because I am bipolar in anyway). Some of the things I did during this time, are being held against me, even to this day.

    Add to that fact, that my father is a “pathological” liar, a master manipulator and gaslighter, and he gaslights me to the point that I act and behave oddly, which he again uses as proof of insanity, doubly makes me act odd and look anxious and tensed. He has also started sleeping with 2 of the maids in his house. We have collected as much evidence regarding him as possible and are in legal proceedings, which as usual, are full of complete and utter bullshit and lies (either totally or partly, or very much manipulated and distorted) written by him. The guy is a total whackjob but has escaped psychiatry due to him being high functioning, being a part of the medical profession himself, his wealth , his social status and his contacts.

    Let me give you a few examples of his gaslighting:
    As examples:

    1.)Telling everyone and telling me that I have social phobia due to “mental illness” because according to him “I don’t mix with people”. It’s not that I don’t mix with people. I avoid him and his family to avoid a direct or indirect relationship with a man who is horribly abusive to me.

    To some people, in order to escape any responsibility, he goes and tells that I have social phobia. If those same people have interacted with me, and find out that I’m not socially phobic at all, he goes and changes the story to how my mother had poisoned my brain against him, or how she does not allow him to meet my friends and also how, supposedly, she does not allow me to meet his people. All lies of course. My mom never does any of that, nor do I have social phobia.

    2.) On one occassion as I was passing by the TV that he was watching, he used to watch programs on mental illness in front of me with psychiatrists saying “Oh, these days there is no need to stigmatise these people….” etc. trying to manipulate me into believing I’m insane.

    3.) When I look at him, due to his harassment, gaslighting and abusive nature, I become completely depressed, anxious and agitated, which he again gaslights me by telling people that I’m a disturbed individual

    4.) There was a lot of gaslighting and harassment associated with my education due to which I am still suffering due to, to this day.

    5.) He keeps telling me that I’m genetically defective. I once, in text messaging (of which I have a record), gave him the example of how even physical pain is also a partly genetic process and that people who have CIPA do not experience physical pain even if they are stabbed, slapped etc. because they have different alleles of the genes that code for pain. And I proceeded to ask him, “If someone beats you and tells you that the pain your are feeling is because you have “bad genes”, would that make sense?”

    His response was “Your language sounds utterly pre-schizophrenic and it’s frustrating behaviour being an absolute zero in life”, implying that I was using sophisticated language to sound smart.

    6.) He keeps using DSM label after DSM label, to refer to me, without even knowing what they mean. Because he’s a surgeon, he thinks he knows what he’s talking about, but he understands none of it.

    These are very few examples. I could write like 30 more, but that would be a waste of time.

    There is a greater history to this than just what I’m writing here, but that’s for another time.

    What do I do? My father is a rustic, rural man, albeit with native intelligence. He is incorrigible and can never be changed. He is incapable of understanding even basic things.

    When he is totally cornered, he actually even admits and says “I can go to any extent to protect my interests” (again, recorded on text message), which includes lying about me and my mother in the worst of ways.

    The misery I have been through in the last 10 years (and everyday, even now), and the way I’m dragging on, with wasted days turning into months and into years is apalling to me.

    I once lived with the dignity of a surgeon’s son. I’d grown up around surgeons my whole life, used to force my male sperm donor to take me to surgeries, saw dozens of procedures like appendectomies, TURPs (transutheral resection of the prostate), bladder stone removal, kidney stone removal, hernia etc. (I still remember the man’s Karl Storz (a company) endoscopes). I was (and still am) the nerd that had my own compound microscope at home. I would watch all kinds of slides (meiosis, tape worm eggs etc.) under it. I knew things before most of my classmates and was always in the pursuit of knowledge and had a thirst to learn. I still like crunching numbers, doing mathematics (which I’m hardly able to concentrate on, and in which I’m seriously lagging behind and probably always might, even though I don’t wish that), learning stuff etc.

    Note: As a surgeon’s son, having grown up amongst surgeons, having attended dozens of surgical consults and having watched dozens of surgeries, living with a 24-hour on call surgeon, watching my father and his friends ask (and get people tested) for X-rays, CT- scans, MRIs, taking blood test reports, biopsies etc., I can tell you that psychiatry is NOTHING like ordinary medicine. Once upon a time, going to hospitals and seeing people’s internal organs and procedures done on them was an absolute joy. These days I am afraid of hospitals and afraid of doctors, lest they end up knowing my “history”.

    After my youth, turning into a failure later in life, being mocked for my incompetence and my inability to keep up with my peers, have certainly hurt my ego hard. I would keep searching for the answer of “Why? What’s everyone else got that I don’t?”, and then ending up in psychiatry, labelled, defamed and treated like some problem child, while the people who created a lot of this shit have escaped infuriates me.

    Knowing my potential (I’m no Einstein, but I’m not performing anywhere near what I’m capable of, even as a grounded estimate, not based on desire, fantasy and an over-estimation of myself), infuriates me.

    If someone has HIV, or tuberculosis or hell even something like Irritable Bowel Syndrome, you can atleast explain it to people, and people can understand. You can’t explain any of this psychiatry junk, or even what it feels like to become manic due to psychiatric drugs to people. It’s like explaining colour to a congenitally blind person and they’d only want to avoid you. I noticed that the more I told my friends about my pain, the more they avoided me, till I learnt that it’s better to not do that than to do so. The whole thing makes you even more trapped.

    Anyway, that’s a lot of text. My point is, knowing all this psychiatry junk, these personality types, clusters of this and that, has not, and will not ever teach me anything about my parents, nor about me.

    They are who they are and I am who I am, and there is, as individuals, a past, present and future to that. And the truth is always descriptive. Cause and effect. Not a bunch of DSM labels.

    So, I disagree with you on some counts, though, I respect that you are trying to seek understanding and closure in your own way.

  • @Igor:

    What if someone has no psychiatric labels and STILL abuses you?

    See how crazy psychiatry and neurononsense has made you?

    “Cluster B personality”, “neurotypical”, “X and Y traits”…..urgh.

    You had a shitty mother and 2 shitty GFs. And that’s it.

    All the intellectualising and playing around with psychiatric jargon and labelling criteria is not going to change that simple truth of life.

    It won’t bring you back your childhood, nor will it make anyone else’s better.

  • I don’t have much to say about people’s sexual orientation, but the word “mad” is defined as “mentally ill or insane”, which practically no one here in the comment section is.

    So, I would NOT be one to involve or associate myself with a “mad pride” movement of any sort. Nothing to be proud of in being mad whatsoever.

    When I wrote about “using it back against them”, I meant it in a practical manner, like in a court of law, for instance.

  • I don’t care how you behaved or thought. Personality Disorders are the most egregious and defamatory labels that exist in psychiatry.

    It doesn’t matter even if someone is a serial killer. There are ordinary everyday words for such a person. “Criminal, “serial killer” etc.

    People should be encouraged to stand up and take some form of action collectively against psychiatry and more importantly the labelling psychiatrists, if they have been labelled with that junk.

    However, if someone is using such labels against you, you’d be doing a good job using it back against them.

    P.S. What the hell is ” ‘Mad’ Pride”. Why even call yourself “mad”?

  • Great. Yet another SSRI/SNRI induced mania story. The same thing happened to me, once in 2007, and then in between 2010-2011, with around the worst “episode” happening in around August 2011. Sertraline and Fluvoxamine were the culprits in each case, respectively. I did so many crazy things during that time, that the consequences of it are haunting me and negatively (a word that doesn’t really encapsulate the misery) impacting me to this day.

    Unfortunately, psychiatry also defames those of us who are prescribed these drugs and experience mania as a result, as “bipolar”. But one half of the mood that comprises of that label is created by the very drugs prescribed by psychiatrists themselves. They are defaming us, after our lives have already been ruined. Naturally, once you are out of it and realise what you have done, depression follows, not as an illness, but as a consequence.

    Imagine you have tuberculosis, and you are prescribed Isoniazid fo it. Then, imagine that the Izoniazid makes you psychotic, and the prescribing doctor tells you and your family that you have “schizophrenia” which was just “uncovered” by the dug. You would butcher that idiot. But a similar occurrence is happening everyday in psychiatry.

    If a person takes a prescription drug and becomes manic and psychotic, they defame you as “bipolar”, though it is something that would likely have never happened without the drug in the first place.

    Psychiatrists should be sued and their medical license should be cancelled for this practice. If you were smart, hardworking and functional enough to get a medical degree, you can do many other things in life.

  • In “3rd world” countries you could probably do something to escape.

    I suppose in the developed world, the structures have become shackles. Not so much if your life is great to begin with. But in cases like this, when a person has a history of forced treatment (or any history at all), you cannot outrun the law. You could try to defend yourself against the cops and sheriffs etc., but they’ll probably just physically assault you, perhaps even shoot you.

    I fear coming to the “developed” world. Perhaps I am better off in my “3rd world dump where people crap on the streets”.

  • Oh my god! Those notes make me vomit. These places dehumanise you like lab rats. Pathetic. And people call this HELP?

    Don’t know why this article does not have millions of views and thousands of comments.

  • Over intellectualisation and neurononsense are going to kill society. If we gave ourselves up to these neuro-trolls, we’d all have our brains in vats.

    So what if addiction is “correlated with brain changes”? That’s also the case when a neuro-troll is taking a dump. It’s also the case when a neuro-troll chooses not to take a dump and takes one at a later time.

    The incessant insistence of neuro-trolls to remove will and choice by intellectualising it with neuro-nonsense is destructive.

    If you have the power to threaten an alcoholic with water boarding every time he takes a drink, you will find that his “brain disease” disappears rather quickly.

    Miraculous isn’t it?

  • If anything, the gaslighting, the lies and the misuse of labels from the abuser, the disease-mongering and conversion and treatment of trauma as part of a piss poorly defined “illness” have truly made me act in ways which may make other people feel that there’s something wrong with ME, because they don’t understand what’s happened to me, if they see me during moments when I am suffering and acting out from the injustice of it all.

    I want justice. That is my treatment. I cannot even get justice from that man because I am the one with the labels. Most people can’t even understand the complexity of psychiatry. Forget about courts and lawyers.

    I once had a dignified life. What I have been reduced to and the pain I am going through on a daily basis is something very few can understand. And even if they understand it, they can DO nothing to ACTUALLY help me. Not the fake pseudo-help of mental health.

  • @FeelinDiscouraged

    I am fairly certain that JClaude is a perfectly good person, a family man etc. trying to do right by himself and the world.

    P.S. I take a low dose of psychotropic drugs myself, which I would eventually like to taper off from. It’s no different than if I were to drink alcohol every night to calm myself. With what I’m taking right now, I don’t have any side effects which are too bad (though I had horrific side effects for many years on other junk), except that if I accidentally forget to take them for 2 days, the withdrawal kills me and I absolutely HAVE to stay on them. I know if I want to taper off it will take me years.

    However, I would NEVER risk going into psychiatry or psychology again, be it to take or NOT take drugs. I know full well the labelling, coercion and infantilisation that comes from that. I have already had DSM labels and the language of psychiatry used against me since I was a kid (even to this day) due to circumstances that occurred before I was even born. The man who did that is of course, still happily living (with a large supportive family), despite being a pathological liar, a master gaslighter and manipulator. But it ruined my life.

    It isn’t the mere existence of drugs that’s the problem. Psychiatrists don’t make drugs. Drug companies do. Drugs don’t take themselves. It’s the middlemen who are dangerous. The psychiatrists and psychologists. The labellers and defamers. The people who can make things worse by making you consume horrible pills that will make your hands shake like you have parkinson’s, cause mania (which they will again relabel as “bipolar” etc). People who will attempt to drug you in the hope to solve things that are not solved by drugs. ALSO, the people who will try to solve things that are not solved by talking.

  • Actually, they are very much in your power. You partake in the system that labels people. You COULD have done something. Things which would require you to sacrifice your personal reputation and career. Things like standing against your profession and showing them how DSM labels obfuscate the truth about an individual, how they are used to gaslight people etc., and personally standing against labelling people. As you said, you HAD to put labels on people (perhaps for insurance). Why not be the renegade psychologist who stands against doing that? Hell, if not go against an entire profession, did you ever stand up in a court of law and testify “This man/woman is misusing DSM labels against his/her spouse/child etc.”?

    But you chose not to. You remained yet another cog in the system that re-abuses people all the time because everyone in the system is just another “well-intentioned” self-preserving cog.

    Truly helping people requires putting your hand in the shit and cleaning it. Doing things which may end up having a negative impact on your own life. Of course, many of us would shirk away from doing that due to self-preservation. But then what we provide is half-baked pseudo-help which if it helps one problem, creates two more. So, perhaps, we should actually just publicly state the truth as it is, instead of maintaining the false facade of “helping professions”.

    Let’s just not pretend that what you did NOT do (more so than what you did), did not contribute to the ruination of the lives of at least a few, despite what your intentions were. And I’m not singling you out here. This applies to pretty much 99.9% of the mental health profession.

    Psychologists and psychiatrists repeatedly give seminars on ending mental health stigma. I have to laugh at them, because they create half of it themselves by labelling individuals and obfuscating their truth away. Never do I see them give speeches or talk about the EXTREMELY harmful consequences of what they are doing.

    P.S. I do commend you for coming on here and leaving a comment. Most people in your professions (psychiatry OR psychology) conveniently hide because facing the truth puts them in a state of severe denial. Anosognosia perhaps?

  • “Therapy” can be just as bad and even worse than drugs. It keeps people trapped in an endless loop of listening and talking. In abuse situations, especially when the abused is vulnerable and less economically and socially powerful than the abuser, the abused person ends up in therapy, ends up with labels, on drugs etc., while the abuser conveniently escapes scott-free.

    Literally, is criminal justice ever a part of “therapy”? Do these people understand that concept?

    The worst part is. Once you have labels, those abusers can easily use them against you to gaslight you, claim that you are insane etc. So, psychiatry just doubly hurts already hurt people.

  • If the author steps into another mental health facility with this story, they will then “treat” her for trauma. Trauma caused by those idiots in the first place. Yet again, she will be trapped for a few more years in the mental health system. Ad infinitum…

    Oh…if we only knew what these professions are like…

    We would have RUN. RUN the other way. I suppose many just run till they die.

    I still see people going on to YouTube and Twitter and proclaiming their new “diagnoses” publicly (nonsense like OCD, ADHD etc.), with the hashtag #EndStigma.

    I want to tell those idiots that they will never end any stigma unless they do not allow mental health workers to label them with defamatory labels, and more importantly, they don’t use it on themselves. But it’s pointless.

    The media, celebrities, skeptic movements etc. have brainwashed and convinced people of how good psychiatry is (with their superficial, seemingly rational arguments[dilettante stuff of course]), and what cranks all antipsychiatry people are. Most likely the only response you will get is what an ignoramus you are, even by the ignoramuses who so proudly embrace their “diagnoses”.

    They’ll find out…the hard way.

  • “And I stay as far away from psych professionals as possible–even the sincere, well-meaning ones. Those people are truly delusional and dangerous!”

    Yup. The sincere well meaning mental health workers are as dangerous as any. And they are indeed delusional because they will continue to follow their standard protocols thinking it will be helpful despite telling them that it has hurt you and will continue to do so.

  • People here keep talking about mental health workers “lining their pockets”, “money” etc.

    Here, in my country, there are many hospitals, some run by the state, some run by religious organisations (like Christian missionaries) where the doctors don’t get paid anything close to what they could make in private practice or by going to the west. I think many of them are completely aware of the “money” card that will be thrown at them and choose to have no conflicts of interests of that sort.

    But guess what. The same stuff still happens. Psychiatry is still psychiatry.

    They still label people with junk. They still tell families that if their children become manic from psychiatric drugs, that they have “bipolar disorder”. They still result in the psychiatric indoctrination of families. Their methods still cause the social and legal issues and misuse of psychiatry that is consistently prevalent around the world, wherever psychiatry exists. It still results in the unintentional (on the part of psychiatrists) abuse of already abused people.

    The worst part is, hell, they don’t even NEED to label people here. In western countries, people get labelled, because insurance needs it for billing. Most people here pay cash (because it’s nowhere near as expensive as in the west), and yet, they STILL use DSM labels. They are STILL used in courts of law to defame people, to obfuscate truths, to write lies or manipulations, in order to win cases.

    So, I don’t think money, and “them lining their pockets” is the only issue here. You could turn that “money” card on antipsychiatry people as well, claiming they do their work to sell books etc.

  • @F.S.

    I don’t understand. So, are you saying that you should have made better choices (choice implies you’re in control) or that you were not in control of your actions and you should have been transferred to a hospital instead? You seem to be saying two different things in two different posts. Or were you being sarcastic in the first post?

    Also, just curious to know, what makes you manic (“bipolar disorder” is not an answer)? Prescription/street drugs or just spontaneous?

  • Good lord, who gives a shit?

    People are getting screwed out there and intellectuals have fun debating impractical junk which is of no use in everyday life like “the philosophy of mind”, “the scientific status of psychiatry” etc. or writing their next new book.

  • Pro-psychiatry people and some skeptic movement fools keep (falsely) accusing critics of psychiatry as thinking in terms of “mind-body dualism”. They (fraudulently) accuse Szasz of the same. Such nonsense. We all know that there is no mind without a brain. So what? There is no mind without a liver either.

  • The study which Matt read and felt hopeless over is not something which many of us here have not felt. One just has to go to the heavily pro-psychiatry sites and read the junk people write there, with all the jargon, intellectualisation, stats and debates. It is enough to make anyone who has practically (and not by reading journal papers and science blogs) been through what psychiatry (and the social and psychological consequences of it), with the best of intentions behind it, does to someone, go into a depression and create a sense of artificial disability out of fear, even if they are not actually like that.

  • Being called an asshole is not considered a medical diagnosis. It is not going to appear somewhere in a medical or court record unless in the context of “he called him/her an asshole”. It is not going to appear in a news clip on TV where some crackpot does something ludicrous and the newsreader reads “he was a schizophrenic and bipolar too”.

    Also, it was an analogy. I could have easily written, with the same meaning, “there is a similarity among people one designates as assholes”. I could not have used the word “asshole” at all. Instead I could have written “wonderful people” and it would work the same.

    Acceptance of situations one considers unacceptable
    is the bedrock of the struggle to survive.

    Some aspects of what is considered to be treatment may have helped a few. It is the aspects that have hurt them as much or more, or unjust occurrences that result in people landing here.

    You seem to be extremely perturbed by this death. But were you as perturbed about the man’s life? When someone dies it becomes about “he could have been helped etc.” but when one is living things just go on as they are.

  • “I thought the whole point of a personality disorder designation was that it was not a supposed illness “like any other”, but more about behavioural and characterological problems?

    Like all classifications (pretty much all nouns really) the nittygritty is arbitrary, and a little bit slippery, but there are remarkable similarities in problems from person to person that end up with the borderline label — mostly women although I’m given to understand it’s as prevalent in men as it is in women.

    Some people rejoice in the designation, others are reviled by it. But it can’t be hidden, surely? How can the intensities be hidden in the real world? I expect in the world of work for some people that is possible, given that masks are available and rewards and punishments tend to be absolute.

    I think if you can overcome the difficulties there should be no need to be concerned about a label given to previous behaviours and thinking styles. What does it matter to someone recovered?”

    Of course not. Are problems of character medical problems now? Why should it not matter to a person if their truth has been obfuscated away in a defamatory manner by a DSM label? So what if they have “recovered” (whatever that is in a person’s life)? Ever seen how such labels are misused in the social sphere, courts of law, marriages etc? Know how easily they are weaponisable and used to obfuscate the truth away?

    So what if there are similarities in people with that label? There are similarities in people I designate as assholes as well.

  • Are you friggin’ kidding me?!!! SSRIs for dogs?!

    Wow. The world has gone crazy.

    When dogs become manic due to SSRIs, they will say the SSRIs uncovered an “underlying illness” and the dog was bipolar all along.

  • Death is not the end of one’s story. It just means that they ran out of time (voluntarily or involuntarily) to complete it.

    I read the part regarding his notes. It sounds like he died of fear, and a created hopelessness. The same kind of hopelessness that getting involved in psychiatry and living with the indignity of being labelled with garbage that obfuscates one’s truth, creates.

    But ultimately, as a person who was well versed with Szasz, he chose to terminate his life (given the circumstances) and it is not any inherent malady that killed him.

    There are probably many such people who kill themselves of this (but end up becoming examples of deaths due to whatever DSM label): i.e. they kill themselves because of the hopelessness that psychiatry, psychiatric labelling, the social ramifications of it etc. create; but these occurrences are likely recorded as “deaths due to mental illness” or “deaths due to X or Y disorder” when they should be recorded as “death due to fear, disgust and indignation”.

    Suicide weakens the goal and spirit of this place. Victory is a part of life. Not of death.

    P.S. I bet the Fuller Torrey types out there are laughing their asses off right now saying “See…the schizophrenic should have stayed on his treatment”.

    Personally, it doesn’t matter really. I will not wallow in misery and be shocked at this death. It is the fear of preventing deaths of these nature that creates the psychiatric coercive system. A man chose to kill himself like millions before him and millions after him. That is all there is to it.

    When his body could walk and talk, he had a goal. The voluntarily imposed cessation of those functions does not hinder or take away from that goal.

  • You know, frankly, the term “science” is used way too much these days to justify an ideological position of “we are correct and you are not”. I feel, it is an unhelpful term, that only leads to endless mental masturbation and pointless intellectualisation. The “scientific nature of psychiatry” is a pseudo-problem that obscures the truth.

    Building a car engine is different than observing the trajectory of a planet. Studying the structure of a leaf is different than writing a computer program to accomplish a specific task. These are different activities, and consist of different set-ups and different people (and different infrastructure) with different mental states, environments, motivations and objectives working on them. No point obfuscating the truth by putting it all under the banner of “science” and engaging in argumentation of whether it is “science” or not.

    The more pertinent question is, what is the truth about psychiatry? What is the nature of these truths? What are the contexts of these truths?

  • My point in writing that is not to spread vitriol, nor to prevent people from helping those kids. My point is, at least, MadInAmerica should promote the non-use of those words amongst mental health workers who work in association with it. That is how change starts.

    Or was that PDF on “oppositional defiant disorder” made to appeal to the more conventional masses as a matter of expedience and not principle?

  • Edited my original comment after reading the article more thoroughly.

    Okay, so you gave addressed the concept of not labelling children with such a label.

    The next frontier is to convince some of these mental health workers to deal with these kids without labelling them as such and calling something what it is.

    The Ten Tips article about ODD, with the MadInAmerica label still carries statements such as:

    1.) “The number one situation I see is that children diagnosed with ODD feel grossly misunderstood and once they’re better understood their need for defiance goes way down.”

    Isn’t it better to say some children feel grossly misunderstood, while other children are indeed misunderstood?

    2.) “Children with ODD get angry easily ”

    Isn’t it more truthful to say that some children get angry easily and that in some cases this anger may be unjustified and in some cases pretty justified?