Monday, August 26, 2019

Comments by boans

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  • I did put this issue of legal burden of proof to one of our M.P.s who is a lawyer, she referred it on to the Minister for Health/Mental Health. Heres the kicker, same guy who put the assisted dying Bill to the House. He responded by stating that he was sorry that I was still upset about my referral and detention. Of course thats only the case if you examine the fraudulent and slanderous documents distributed by the hospital concerned. So I wrote back and said he can call kidnapping and torture whatever he wants but the issue of hospitals distributing fraudulent documents to conceal their criminality seems a bit much, especially if they are going to be killing people there. Mind you, does it matter because they are not going to keep any data about how many are being shoved through anyway.
    Shame there arent any journalists who would inform our public about this negligent individual who fails in his duty to examine documents in an objective manner. Who would do a cover up for organised criminals operating under his nose, and who uses dog whistle slander to silence victims of his criminal associates. Minister? The man is a disgrace to the office he holds.
    Gee I hope this hasnt got anything to do with his sister the psychologist being involved. Not that a conflict of interest would stop the doing cover ups in the current environment.

  • So the person charged with the duty to protect the public, doesn’t know what the protections are? Provides “expert legal advice” to the Minister and yet doesn’t understand what a burden of proof is? Lucky they can conspire with lawyers or someone might notice and think the enabling of arbitrary detentions and the use of torture were human rights abuses. Still, they can be coerced into compliance. The law allows that right?
    An interesting aside to the “Assisted Dying Legislation”. It has often been claimed by human rights lawyers that the execution of prisoners may constitute “cruel and unusual punishment”. So if this legislation goes through will the same drugs be used on those who have expressed a wish to extinguish their life? Never mind those who have been rendered non compus mentus via forced drugging by psychiatrists. If it’ s not cruel and inhumane for prisoners and lets check some of the cases, then surely is this what you would want for your loved ones?
    One argument being put forward is that 80% of the public wants this. More want the death penalty but where not in any hurry to enact that. Sure many folk here are aware of the debate and paradox in end of life legislation. Shame I cant obtain legal representation as a result of the corrupt and criminal element operating in our hospital system and government.

    Good news is give us a year and tourists won’t have to walk past all these homeless people taking up space, they have volunteered for some unintended negative outcomes lol

  • I just finished reading a book called The Management of Savagery; how America’s National Security State fuelled the rise of Al Qaeda, ISIS and Donald Trump. Strange bedfellows one might think. However …. a point made in the book is that the publication of savagery was a deliberate tactic to gain attention for extremists.
    So the other day we have a guy go nuts and start stabbing people, shouting “Allahu Akbar” but he’s not affilliated with any terrorist organisations. He did however drop a bottle of anti depressants onto the street when they took him down. So is he a treated mentally ill person, or an untreated one? Does it matter?
    To me this smells a lot like the use of Snowball in Orwells Animal Farm. Anything bad happens the evidence is planted and it always leads back to him. This is then used to pervert the doctrine of “No animal shall kill another animal” to “No animal should kill another animal without cause”.
    Good news folk, our parliament is discussing what they have labelled “Assisted dying legislation” at present. The term euthanasia we are told is not to be used as it has negative associations with National Socialists. There are 100 plus protections we are also told. However if the protections afforded the public under the Mental Health Act are anything to go by our Emergency Departments will be being used for purposes other than what they were designed for.
    In a letter from the Cheif Psychiatrist the burden of proof legal protection went from “suspect on reasonable grounds” to “suspect on grounds we believe to be reasonable” πŸ™‚ Goodbye protection of s26. Well done Napoleon.

  • Nice article and to quote the guy in the movie Network “I’m as mad as Hell and I’m not going to take it anymore” (note white guy or he wouldnt be allowed to express this outburst of emotion). However…..

    You touch on an issue I find interesting Megan, the link between anger and violence. Not just those overt acts of violence portrayed in the media and ‘spun’ for political and economic purposes, but the ‘silent violence’ done by those who repress the outward display of their anger. An example.

    A therapist who dislikes their clients anti psychiatry views but keeps their anger about this under wraps. By exploiting the trust of their client and having them ‘confess’ their sins, they can now systematically destroy their clients life, and have them pay for the destruction of their marriage, career, and quite possible have large amounts of drugs administered against their will possibly leading to suicide. This type of violence disguised as therapy is not, I believe, uncommon particularly in a system regularly described as being “in crisis”. Its the fact that it IS in crisis that enables this type of conduct to occur. Of course those who engage in such conduct can quite often be of the delusional belief that they are not being watched πŸ™‚ and often times find themselves in some compromised positions.

    How do you feel about this type of ‘silent violence’ that occurs as a result of repressed anger?

    Thanks for getting me thinking about these issues.

  • Keep in mind Bradford that journalism has become dangerous in Australia now. Publish anything the government doesnt like and your up for raids by our Federal Police. Trying to get the balance right they say, as if propaganda is ever balanced.
    The culture of cover ups has spread very rapidly, and virtually any indiscretions can be concealed with ‘National Security’ legislation. Ive been amazed at how quickly people turn on their heels and run with just a little coercion.
    So its not just Garth disappearing into the ether but a lot of stories that journalists would be afraid to publish lest their families be threatened.

  • I’m off again tomorrow folk. Hope to be back a little sooner next time.

    This science, and normal abnormal stuff (all done with statistics) looks to me like the Cult of the Curve. Outliers must be brought back to the norm. Not in His plan and you know what they say, Man plans, God laughs.

    Y’all take care now.

  • Funnily enough, I called it dribble therapy after meeting a Finn in the locked ward. People were struggling to understand him due to the “chemical restraint” that had been administered. Speaking in tongues being the symptom.
    His flight response had been cut off by police with handcuffs, and when they told him they were going to have him pack raped at the station, he went balistic. Off to the psych unit and he was dribbling for 8 weeks. Released on a CTO and a belief he had a mental illness lol. He got drunk and stoned and smashed his stuff up with reason ffs.
    Should have seen his face light up when I said to the two nurses bringing his drugs “Ahhhh Satana and Perkele are here” lol

  • I once had someone tell me that in mathematics X usually equals zero, and a spert is a drip put under pressure.

    Our Chief psychiatrist provides “expert legal advice to the Minister”, but sent me a letter stating he didn’t understand the “reasonable person standard”. Authorities, not experts. Power with no understanding of the science.

  • Hi fred

    You mention “chemical restraints” being lawful in Australia, which is totally accurate. I would add from a report by our Chief psychiatrist that there is “no National Standard as to what constitutes a chemical restraint”. Think about that for a little. Saying no means you have opened the gate for a chemical restraint with no holds barred. Dribble therapy I once called it. Franchises of Chelmsford setting up all over the country.

  • Did their best to Steve. The ‘architect’ of the Mental Health Bill presented to Parliament was an epidemiologist. Think he might have noticed the problems with FASD (Fetal alchohol spectrum disorder). This is going to cost us some money, especially in places like Fitzroy Crossing. Sterilizing a whole bunch of indigenous children is going to raise some concerns given our history with the Stolen Generation. But, the new nearby psych ward and the laws to back them …….
    Thankfully the Scientologists and some people outside the country made a few complaints and they dropped it. Though I read that there are still methods being used to ‘coerce’ consent.

    They say the place glistens when you fly in from all the broken alcohol bottles around the town.

  • Western Australian law.
    Draconian alright, couldn’t protest it though, couldn’t get a permit, and without one you got a belt from a baton the the head from someone on a horse.

    They’ve basically used the same method with MH laws in the States now. They know they are human rights violations but …… see how far you get with a complaint. About as far as your local locked ward lol

    And should they get the forced sterilization through? 11 years before a High Court decision? …… sorry, already done.

  • We have a history in this country of enacting unconstitutional law to achieve outcomes, and then overturning the laws.
    People in my State were exercising their right to congregate and protest at one stage. Enter S.54b of the Criminal Code. This made it unlawful to gather in groups of more that 3 in a public place without authorisation from the State. Police then smashed the Unions protests. Fair days work for a fair days pay my ar#e. 11 years later with the job done, the High court ruled the law unconstitutional, and we could go back to having coffee with friends without a permit from the State lol

  • Any further information on this Lametamor. A link perhaps to the proposal?

    When the UN criticised Australias MH Laws as being a violation of human rights and that the treatments may constitute torture, our politicians introduced new laws that are worse. By doing so they have invalidated the statement, and are violating human rights at increasing levels.
    But they did act on the statement, and are now going to ensure that there is no avenue to appeal any decision in the future.
    If you provide information to the UN about human rights abuses and in the process damage Australias reputation, you can be held without charge for years. Pending charges on espionage. Bill has gone to the Senate for debate.
    No need to do the right thing, just make it look like it.
    Hopefully our ‘model’ will not be mirrored around the world the way our aparthied was in South Africa.

  • I’m reminded of the narrator in Babakiuaria who, when the children of the white family are being removed for their protection states that she had an Aunt who went on holidays overseas for 4 weeks, so “I know how they feel”.
    And the family? Oh yes, it’s for the best.
    Best to exit some relationships gently.

  • Would a psychiatric evaluation have changed the outcome?
    No denying that such a breach of trust is vile. I recently saw a documentary called Chika about Chika Honda a Japanese tourist who came to Australia, had her bags packed for her, and did 10 years before being sent home. A competent translator might have assisted her, ie being able to provide a defense to the courts but ….
    I hope they caught the people who planted the drugs on Akmal. Perhaps they can do their own deliveries next time.

  • Yup, with you oldhead. After seeing your comment I went and read the article and comments. I think one by Mr Whitaker states that his mother had a letter for all at MiA and to contact via Facebook or some such. There was another by a guy from ISPS or something who spoke about said article, maybe contact him directly and ask what it was?

    I’ll look again.

    Dunno that its not a Bowling for Colombine thing though. Why was it Marilyn Manson and not the bowling if ya see what I mean.

    Gary Sidley comment. Spoke to him about the article a couple of weeks before.
    And Chuck Ruby ISEPP.

  • Dr Strangelove
    Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy ….. the FEAR to attack.

    Oh and gentlemen you can’t fight in here, this is the War Room lol

    Woops sorry, this was meant for my Friends of Psychologists of Guantanamo Bay group. Oh well, might make sense anyway

  • Woah, and here’s me thinking I was talking to myself again.

    I really liked James. Man with a good heart. We are poles apart but I always got a sense from his writing that he was doing his best to be kind.

    The changes I’ve noticed after being away are difficult to describe. My general feeling though is that there’s been a shift for the worse. Feel like I’m looking for something that I know used to be here and can’t find it. Depends where your standing though I guess. Quality comments from professionals or quantity that includes mugs like me lol.

  • Nothing in the letter that was left for us oldhead? Have you asked those who know?

    Personally I don’t think there is an answer, so from my perspective if I knew I’d hand it on but ….

  • I get the feeling that the revolution will not be televised, it will not go better with Coke,
    Spike Milligan once siad he wanted the words “See, I told you I was ill” put on his headstone. I think that when psychiatry comes to an end with the destruction of the planet, their headstone might read “See, we told them they were ill”.

    Maybe we need to see this war in much longer terms, generations perhaps. MIA being a reference for those who are yet to come.

    I really like Richards comments about recognising the divisive nature of internal ‘politics’. The need to defend oneself from an external threat tends to out these matters on the backburner. Still, how many times have great leaders thought they had it all under control only to speak the words “I didn’t see that coming”?

  • Brief therapy?

    We have something similar in Australia. After a three minute disagreement with a doctor over seating arrangements I was diagnosed with three serious mental illnesses. Never seen the guy before, and when he spoke to me like his pet dog I was not impressed with his bedside manner. Brief diagnosis lol His diagnostic notes consist of “Lives with his wife. Has a degree from X University”. Still, Ordained Minister, Order of Australia recipient, Senior Medical Officer, if he can’t stick a needle full of Olanzapine (or was it Qetiapine) into someone for a friend who can? Did I really look like an elephant that need to sleep for a week Doc?

    Not that I actually had these three serious mental illnesses, or maybe I did and they were cured in the hour between the diagnosis and seeing another doctor. All so scientific and difficult for me to understand.

  • You might not like it, can’t say I’m a fan myself, but ….. that’s the law.

    I figured this out when I started wondering why police and the hospital wanted the documents I had back. Me not being a ‘patient’ means human rights violations, fraudulent documents to lawyers means do what ya want to him. Torture becomes treatment. Which doesn’t say a lot for their treatments when taking the wrapper of the law off.

    Still, second line of defense, threaten witnesses and lawyers. Works a treat when they become fearful or the safety of their families. Good guys always win in the end eh?

    Take away a persons human rights and the mask comes off the good guys pretty darn quick. Get to see them for what they really are.

  • Tried to post this comment on the article but I need to sign up for 57 different accoints and do a rubics cube in less than ten seconds. I gave up, but if someone can post it there for me I’d love to hear a response from someone who works in an Office of the Chief Psychiatrist. They should know this stuff.
    Just a note on human rights violations in the area of mental health. How to remove a persons human rights 101, call them a “patient”. Now for example what would be a human rights violation such as torture under the UN Convention against Torture becomes “inherent in or incidental to lawful sanction”. So if your not a patient it is torture and a human rights violation, and if your a patient its not.
    Same goes for deprivation of liberty, lawfully sanctioned. Right to consent, anosognosia trumps that one.
    I could go on but basically your human rights are removed the moment you enter a relationship with a doctor. You just dont know it yet

    My point being that the question is posed, why does so much of mental health care violate a persons human rights? It doesn’t, the law is designed to ensure that human rights are removed to enable the ‘treatment’, thus …. no such violation occurs.

  • Should military personnel be screened for “psychosis risk disorder” and put on anti psychotics before ending up with Fuked over by Warfare Disorder. Couple of good docos about Afghanistan, Restrepo and one done by the Danes (forget the name). Give a fair idea of how to survive the experience and rotate back to the real world.

  • Something along the lines of ‘Doctors report this highly effective and beneficial treatment is being denied to those suffering. Not a lot from the actual ‘consumers’ who seem to have trouble remembering their own names.
    And hey, who could deny that a 12 year old understands the consequences of consenting to such treatment. Not like there is an imbalance of power here when the doctor is telling them something.
    It will be interesting to see the data in another 10 years as to the level of increases in this. 1000% is my guess.
    Oh wait, they did publish an article on the front page. A nurse in uniform who had undergone ‘treatment’ and explained how wonderful her life was now. The timing of this article was surely a coincidence though.

  • Good point oldhead.

    Don’t ya just love the way they twist these things around? “Your products are sh&t” becomes, “consumers state that our products serve a number of useful functions” just don’t mention it is as manure lol.

    One of the best I heard was from our pollies. They introduced the new MHA with the party line of “there are added protections.” Note they stopped there and failed to mention that those protections were for doctors against being prosecuted for abuses. But the community felt so much safer.
    With a 200% increase in ECTs over the past 9 years there were worries about the use of this on teenagers. They were reluctant to do it given the possibility of prosecution. There was the “added protections”. The gates were opened with immunity.

  • Nice one Ron (and John).

    I know that when I was in hospital there was a talk given by the people from the Hearing Voices Network. Staff ensured that certain patients (those hearing voices) were restricted from attending. Seemed strange to me at the time, and I copped a mouthful from staff when I tried to introduce one guy who I thought might be interested in what the person had to say. So they only want people hearing voices to hear the voices they want them to hear lol.

    Speaking of which

    This passes and you will not be hearing any voices of opposition to psychiatric abuses from our country. Not if the only people who can provide information to the UN without being detained without charge for years are our Politicians. No talking about the delousing program people. I wouldnt want to be an Aboriginal person in this country.

  • Bit of information about Australia. We are about to pass laws that restrict the provision of information to ‘foreign entities’ that could do harm to Australias reputation. This includes the UN. The only people given an exemption are our politicians.
    Groups such as Amnesty etc may find themselves on charges relating to espionage should they provide information on the use of torture to the UN.
    Ah well, theres always the music.

  • Am I happy someone made money out of the procedure? Mmmm more that they picked up some valuable resources, and I hope they are used for the right purposes. Vulpes pillum mutat non mores.
    My anger is understandable given those in a position of trust neglect their duty. Negligence is an extreme thing. It was only that I was angry that stopped me from acting, given that I may have misdirected or misplaced that anger. Unto Caesar what is Caesars.
    My delusional belief that I lived in a Nation with a rule of law, and with a social contract where wrongs would be righted as best as possible made me a target for a knife in the back. It will regress and my hope is that they correct their errors. I see no sign of this occuring at this point in time.

  • And wonder you may about my activities, suspicion breeds confidence as they say. But while you and others ponder that, there is a crew of organised criminals operating in our hospital, and they have public officers doing their dirty work for them.
    Its a long story anyway, and just one in a huge line of failures on the part of our professionals. The only expertise I saw that day was in the use of negligence, fraud and slander to achieve predetermined outcomes. How could I become a patient before even being seen? Oh thats right, minus doing that it would all be part of a criminal conspiracy to stuoefy and commit an indictable offence, namely kidnapping.
    Or should I say was operating in our hospitals. They are down one as a rwsult of me being ‘switched’ for one of their own (rip) and are playing a double game which can only lead to their demise one would imagine.

  • Seen it done whatuser. I have a letter here from our Chief Psychiatrist stating that mental health professionals can travel through time and space, and have the ability to read minds. I had no idea they had such powers.
    I realise you don’t know what I was subjected to, but in order to get me injected with drugs I didn’t need for an illness I didn’t have, a zealot needed to subject me to the use of torture, and then use the response to that as justification to kidnap me.
    Once they had provoked the illness, now they were free to begin ‘treatment’. And he received the full support of his colleagues in this. And what a keffuffle when I still had the proof after they had distributed fraudulent documents and slandered me to anyone who tried to assist me.
    My behaviour at this time was consistent with the vile treatment I was subjected to. Flipping the script is standard operating proceedure where I live.

  • I’m kinda happy being an annoying rabbit lol. I could never live up to the standards and expectations of those is the psych world in order to be considered human. But imagine their surprise when they catch their own reflection at some point.
    I think about one particular abuser in our system who locks people up for not having their dishes done when he pays a surprise visit. Knock, knock, morality police check.

  • One thing when someone anonymous proposes it on a website, another when your government submits a Bill in Parliament suggesting forced sterilisation as treatment for mental illness.
    Psychosurgery and ECTs for 12 year olds, who can give consent?
    Wish list not granted, you’ll have to find loopholes.

  • Never ceases to amaze me either RR.
    I sometimes see the test for the torturer as one of a belief that they ARE God. All that power over another. Like Oppenheimers comment about “I am become God”. And yet the hole in the ground awaits them as much as it does me. They just have more stuff here as a magnet to not wish leaving for another place where the disease in their hearts will be ‘treated’ lol.
    And all their stuff? Know what they say, where there’s a will, there’s relatives.

  • Dead like McMurphy, or Muslims like Bilal (as).

    The problem with torture in order to obtain confessions arises when the tortured has nothing to confess. I think about the man being beaten before the battle of Uhud, when the Prophet Muhammad (saw) said that it was not effective to beat a man for telling the truth (I don’t know) and then stop when he tells you what you want to hear. There are other ways of interrogating people that can reveal what you want to know that do much less harm.

  • The term used in a report by the Chief Psychiatrist was unintentional negative outcomes to describe the people who were having their necks broken during restraints. Setting situations up that end in the outcome of death of the patient, but you can’t prove it become unintentional negative outcomes.
    In my case while the State is trying to conceal the use of torture and kidnap, the doctor with the problem arranges an unintentional negative outcome. No motive as its being covered up, and with no motive a crime hasn’t occurred, just a terrrible accident. If that makes sense.
    Our politicians staffers tend to cringe if you use the correct terminology.

  • Glad you stipulated a “safe non critical environment” there littleturtle. Telling my story outside of that nearly got me ‘knocked’. Or ‘unintentionally negatively outcomed’ is the term preferred by professionals lol.

  • I’m not much of a fan of psychiatry Doc, so the idea of making a 6 foot rabbit who never wears pants, and occasionally dresses in womens clothes into a star? Meh, ain’t gunna work. But I do consider myself to fit into the category of difficult πŸ™‚ Ask Yosemite Sam lol
    As far as the idea goes, its gotta be better than the current system of giving patients a voice via a pet rock.

    Good luck.

  • I find myself wondering about the use of Serkov tactics when I read such research findings.

    Serkov is an advisor to Putin who would fund all sorts of groups, even those who would attack Putin. The key being that he would then let this be known. It leaves people not knowing what to believe, and keeps any opposition to their power constantly confused. People become bogged down in debates about ‘facts’.

  • In Australia we’re coerced into voting (fined if you don’t, makes our elected leaders seems popular and legitimate). I told the Electoral Commission that as long as people are being tortured by public officers they can just ask my doctor who I should vote for. Which doctor? I dunno because they can appoint themselves your doctor without even meeting you. Project my civic responsibility onto others πŸ™‚ But still we are bombarded with political propaganda.
    I’d say more but I’ve left a toddler in the bath with my 38 special and …….

    The fines for not voting have the result in some cases of people being ‘jacked up’ and owing hundreds or thousands in fines. Eg they cancel your drivers licence and car registration without you knowing and police then charge you with further offences. Nice little cash cow for the State and its generally poor homeless people who are caught in the trap.

  • They do no doubt serve a function in the political scheme of things though Stephen.

    I was once told by a prof of cardiology that he “didn’t have the stomach for it”. A guy who cuts peoples chests open and sticks his fists in? Lol

    The recent changes to our MH A seems to have been brought in to address the problems faced by police, domestic violence and drug addictions. These issues are now being dealt with by psychiatrists who have little interest in the recovery of the patients, merely wishing the issues to disappear from public view.
    This resulted in 40% of our public system psychiatrists leaving, they still want to do medicine, not take people out the back and …. ‘medicate’ them.
    So we needed to import a few Pinkertons to get the job done. I’m sure as time progresses other political issues will surface and their powers and roles will change again. Cant make it a crime to be poor, but we sure as hell can drug anyone who thinks they have a right to food and housing lol. Note the people who are usually most vocal about the ‘burden on the taxpayer’ are usually really rich people who don’t pay any. How’s that work?

  • I’d suggest the term “Anti Depressant” was no accident. Calling them “Chemical Imbalancers” was not going to create the image that would allow the reduction of the anxiety. I fear my child may be suicidal, hypervigilance, and I’d be a bad parent if I didn’t do what all other parents are doing to ensure my child does not commit suicide. Enter public relations of Big Pharma. Facts are no longer of any significance as the herd is doing this, so I would feel terrible if I don’t do this and something happens.
    How much does this fit in with Burnays ideas about “happiness machines”? I leave that to you.

  • Fascinating Michael. Thanks for sharing this knowledge obvious honed from years of experience . I like that you connect this to the use of projections via the elite media too. The irrational fears of ‘terrorists’ for example, and I say irrational because the public are much more likely to be the victim of State sanctioned violence than any terrorist attack. But the wolf is circling the flock. Cut to an adverisiment for benzodiazepines lol.

  • The other thing I would note is that just because someone with borderline gets you to do something that is wrong, does not absolve you from any responsibility. They are not to be used as scapegoats.
    If the corrupt practice of verballing were not rampant among public officers, then the gentle coercive methods (threats of pack rape, mock executions) would not be required to overcome the right to silence. Add to this the ability to spike people before interrogation and you end up with what we have here. State sanctioned torture, dressed up as health care.
    Having the public commit the offense and then an acquiescence of public officers to act on that offense.
    So the devil gets in your ear and then leaves you in the lurch? Not his fault, its yours. Thats his job.

  • Thanks people, you’ve assited in explaining some things to me that I still struggle to understand.
    I’m feeling a little more confident in having crossed paths with one of these people. My disagreement with my wife was an illness that required me to be tortured and given drugs I didnt need for an illness I didnt have. The medical fraternity failing to recognise the issue was not with me, but with the person controlling the narrative (just drug him and plant what they need, and I get what I want).
    My issue is still this though. I can look at what was done and how my wife even tried to exploit the chaos and have me do the nasty to her family abuser but I do not have the power or knowledge to apply the label. In as much as I could look under the hood of your car and take a guess, but I’m not a mechanic, and following my advice might cause further issues.
    Minus me being told that my wife was a ‘borderline’ ( and looking back she did try to tell me but…. much too late) what have I got?
    Her knowledge of the system after being through it meant she knew that “you just need to know what to tell them”, and they then subjected me to torture and kidnap.

    Bit like she once told me her compulsions to steal or shoplift was kleptomania. Nice way of saying thief lol

    Anyway, thanks for the info.

  • I think the ideas of Bernays are important here. His thoughts on exploiting irrational fears (about teen suicide) and creating a herd mentality. Facts don’t matter to the herd, only the dissipation of the anxiety from the fear. His “torches of freedom” campaign highlighting this type of exploitation. Got a whole bunch of new customers for the cigarette companies. Doctors, politicians movie stars all assisting in the selling of the product. Eventually the truth wins out but by then a whole bunch of people had lung cancer, and the money had gone from tobacco companies to ….. pharmaceuticals?

  • Wtf, you get a lawyer in Uganda, but not in Australia?

    No wonder the lawyer at the Law Centre said “we’ve been getting a lot of these lately”. Their ‘throw you under a bus service’ makes them complicit in human rights abuses. They’re even turning up in Uganda. It just so easy to do. Drop em with benzos, plant a knife and some drugs, and tell police they are a ‘patient’. Police detain on s68e and hand em over to MH given they suspect on reasonable grounds that the person has a mental illness (the lie told by CN). He then ‘verbals’ and brings you under the MHA and authorises the spiking. Now without informing you that you have been spiked, he hands you back to police for interview. They interrogate and get what they want, and drop you off at the hospital for further treatment (ie massive injection of anti psychotics). Doctor now writes a script for the drugs you were spiked with post hoc. And it all appears lawful.
    Life deals you lemons, you make lemonade. I see a business opportunity.
    If the lawyers only accept documents minus the proof of the spiking, then they begin slandering you as a paranoid delusional. I like the new offices by the way.

  • Good that its a voluntary thing. Imagine the change if they were given the power to have police deliver people to them for exorcisms. Different ‘church’ officer lol.

    I can’t find the comments relating to psychs having proxy access to guns and tazers via police. Just a point of interest, our new MH Act has put a MH professional in every police station. They now have proxy access to chemical restraints and with the power to spike people before interviews?

    Interesting case in point. The wedding (MH and police) happened without the fussy of Harry and Megan. Bobi Wines lawyer needs to check the Convention against the use of Torture. Article 1.1 it is not torture if it is “inherent in or incidental to lawful sanction” . Thus as he has a doctor, he is being ‘treated’. Something which should be a concern for us all. Not only is it possible in Uganda, but in our own places of residence. And it interesting how effective the defense of “they wouldn’t do that” actually is.
    I was ‘spiked’ with benzos, jumped by police and handed over to a Community Nurse for a ‘verballing’, and with knowledge that I had been ‘spiked’ the Community Nurse then handed me over to police to be interviewed. Imagine being able to drug suspects without their knowledge before subjecting them to interrogation. No wonder they wanted the proof back.

  • I wonder if the apartheid system of mental health is as obvious in the US as it is here in Australia. Don’t misunderstand me here I understand that people with a different world view and who have been subjected to generations of trauma quite possibly need separate services, but it really is bordering on signs saying “whites only”. I wish I had more time to look into this because with our “history” I can’t help but wonder about the unstated aims.
    Because nowhere is the failings of psychiatry more obvious when you try to introduce it into other culture. Their “standards” as to what constitutes a ‘mental illness’ are comperable to trying to introduce Christianity.

  • Hope someone remembers the article im talking about because it covered that change from tranquillizer, to neuroleptic to anti psychotic.
    Why does this make me think boot polish to hair cream to haemorroid treatment lol. Bound to be doing something I guess, and the guys selling it arent using it.

  • Just bonkers to me. But I’m not a psychiatrist and not subject to the delusional belief that despite their claims everybody want to be like me.

    There was a good article some time back that said the term neuroleptic derived from ‘seize the brain’ . And thats good for it? Except when its bad for it maybe.

  • Nice one Kermit.
    I remember travelling on the Greyhounds through New Mexico and it reminded me so much of home. I read a comment earlier about how people who failed to shower for long periods of time needed to be referred to a psychiatrist. For a shower regimen? In the desert doing such a thing means no dinner, the food smells you coming from a mile away lol. And what a waste of a scarce resource. A lot of wisdom if your prepared to listen and learn. I get the feeling from you writing you are one such person.
    Thank you

  • This was in response to streetphotos comment above.

    Benzodiazepines are one of four stupefying/intoxicating drugs according to our law (ketamine, rhohypnol and GHB) Somehow when prescribed by a doctor they become medicine. What about the doctor who uses them to intoxicate?

    I don’t know much about these drugs but wonder why the neuroleptics are not included in this list. Certainly they are used as “chemical restraints”. Might this change the way the are viewed by consumers?

  • But Steve then loaded questions would not be answered. For example, my response to the question “Could you use a knife to defend yourself?” becomes “Has a knife to defend himself”. A lawyer present would slow or even stop the corrupt practice of ‘verballing’ and make the job of snatching people from their homes so much more difficult.
    Oh, and I wonder if the community nurse asking these loaded questions still beats his wife lol. Because the only reason he raised the issue of the knife was because he had been told it had been planted. The police didnt even find it when they searched me so woops, played his Ace a little early
    Bang, bang, bang, put down the knife becomes put down the knife, bang bang bang.
    Yes, my mother and father in law live next door, becomes “concerned about being observed by neighbours” hahahaha this guy is a comedian. Ancd one with some serious concerns about police now they know he is using their services to torture and kidnap citizens lol

  • I gotta say its tough when we have different systems (US and Australia). The UN stated that our Mental Health Laws were a violation of human rights and that the treatments may constitute torture. They didnt say this about the US. Our respective governments took this opportunity to invalidate this statement by introducing even worse laws. (Even psychiatrists fled our public system with insight as to what was to be done) They even attempted to introduce the forced sterilization of children without parental consent. Thankyou to those in the international community who highlighted and opposed this clause, because there was little chance of anyone here putting up any opposition. The Community Treatment Orders did however pass.
    The country I once loved is no more, and I need to recognise this fact, cut my losses and leave em to it.
    I feel almost jealous listening to people debating the extent of their human rights, something I think I share with my indigenous brothers and sisters who were only recently made human (1968), but still wait for their rights. It’s a young Nation and mistakes will be made and lives lost as a result. Commonwealth no more.

  • Doctors, social workers, therapists and bus drivers. Hi, ive had a disagreement with my husband and I’d like a ‘welfare check’, Ive spiked him with benzos and he has collapsed in bed so I’ve planted an knife for police to find. That should get you a referral. Quick hurry before he wakes up. Im concerned he might leave and take his share of the property. I mean he can have his clothes, theey dont fit my new man but …. oh thank you community nurse. He calls the cops and say he needs help with a patient and hey presto.
    Form 1, “not sleeping/eating”. Not exactly what he was told, I had been busy packing my stuff, and had been snacking but ‘verballing’ the strict criteria for detention was his only hope. Bearing false witness but its all in a good cause, we are going to help you
    The slandering of me as a wife beater by the community nurse was a classic. My wife denying the she said it (and I believe her as it would have been a lie), distortions make it easier to deceive) and everyone then treating me as if it were true. Not looking a lot like ‘health care’ from where I was standing.
    The documents reveal one narrative disappearing and another more suitable one emerging. We can make anything the truth using this method of ‘noble corruption’.

  • The complaint from my lawyers to the Chief Psychiatrist contained three letters relating to the non provision of documents despite a directive stating that lawyers can have access to protect human rights. These three letters were headed with “Applicaton for documents under S 63 (?) of the MHA” bolded and capitals. Now after sighting these documents the Chief Psychiatrist writes ‘I am of the impression that the application for documents was made under the FOI Act and therefore could be provided in “edited” form.’ Blind Freddy, glad he isnt checking my ‘medication’ chart. Fraud and editing are two seperate matters.
    Of course this was a letter the lawyers did not read, and was designed to do psychological harm to the recipient. My response, “How exquisitly poisonous Eh Doc?”
    End of the day our ‘system’ is basically go out and get em, torture, kidnap and any complaints we’ll fuk em over. Carte blanche and zero accountability.
    You will bow down to the gods you stand before.

  • shaun,
    After receiving the response from the Chief Psychiatrist regarding his misrepresentation of the law (the removal of reasonable person standard) I was informed by the Minister that our new Act had “added protections” (public not informed that these were all about protecting doctors however). My response was to point out that it wouldnt matter how many protection were written into the law if the person responsible for enforcing them didnt know what they were. The Shadow Minister found it funny and eventually accused her of “dereliction of duty” outside parliamentary privilege. Got the boot not long after.
    The point being though that through acts of negligence, fraud and slander the laws designed to protect consumers carers and the community are virtually worthless. In such a police state they simply keep upping the anti until you find yourself being unintendedly negatively outcomed in an Emergency Department.
    Even one of our own Ministers (Treasurer) had to leave the State to be treated for a bi polar disorder. Dont think he had a lot of faith in the treatment he might have received for it here given that he had upset a few people including the Minister for MH. What, we dont have anyone who can treat bi polar here? Was he a little paranoid perhaps? Or did he know something the general public did not?
    After I had identified 26 ‘mistakes’ which had be made and admitted which all had the same result of ensuring may complaint was invalid, I started to wonder about the probability of this. 26X25X24X23….. its a big number. Neglecting your duty to conceal crimes is an offence. Lucky the police here are under recourced and dont have copies of the criminal code at police stations. Funny though providing proof of torture and kidnapping will get you referred to mental health for ‘treatment’ and when that doesnt work they can arrest you for unspecified crimes (having documented proof of crimes) Bizarre really, and the defense is “they wouldn’t do that”
    All sounds terrible and it was, but God put it right. If you could see there faces as they are thrown into the blaze, you would never doubt that you are being watched πŸ™‚

  • She could catch another one Rachel πŸ™‚ Not your issue if your gone.

    Humour warning.
    I got to thinking about the Catch and Cook show and ….. I’m waiting for the episode done by Jeffrey Dahmer.
    Hi, I’m Jeffrey Dahmer and today I’m going to teach you how to catch and cook a psychiatrist. Now not all psychiatrist can be caught, there is a size limit, but if your careful you might find one ripe for the picking. Too many patients making a complaint results in them meeting the size limit. So, today I’m going to stand in a public place and act a little crazy. Two psychiatrist have of course declared me sane before my trial, and well the folk I was eating were mentally ill as a result of their sexual preferences but ….. anyway, this laying of a trap is fairly easy really, throw your hands in the air and ….lol. makes me laugh.
    Special guest appearance by Dr Lecter.

  • Strict criteria in Australia? The only criteria is “tomato”. If the MH professional thinks thats reason, then it is. This as a result of the removal of the protections of a “reasonable person standard” from our law. I think they might have been feeding me bs but, there ya go the Chief Psychiatrist and Minister write that there is no “reasonable person standard” and thus what they say is reasonable is.
    Bit of a worry for anyone with an anti psychiatry view of the world but ….. I like the US system with the burden of proof and stuff, not all this we do what we want and sort the paperwork out later.
    Mind you, the lawyers were told not to read these letters, and just hand them on to me. Maybe if they looked they might have noticed that the Minister and Chief Psychiatrist wouldnt pass a first year law course. Like a poison pen letter designed to gaslight someone really. Now, heres a set of documents you can slander your client with should anyone call you and ask about these events.

  • At this point in time I feel little if any animosity towards those who claim to support human rights but will throw anyone who has been subjected to abuses under a bus at the first sign of trouble. Its theirs to deal with.
    Maybe someday I will be afforded the promises made in that Convention and be allowed to see my grand children, 7 years is such a long time.
    A note to those who feel that their families and ‘support’ have left them for dead, they may be being subjected to intimidation and threats to coerce them into acting this way towards you. Consider this carefully.

  • I used to think that the Convention against the use of Tortue was an effective instrument. Till I complained about being tortured that is.
    Police assist in retrieving the evidence and my family, lawyers and a psychologist all subjected to intimidation and threats in contravention of Article 13 (I believe).
    So after the investigation when I was told by the Operations Manager of the hospital concerned that “We’ll fuking destroy you” they meant it.
    They just sign these agreements to obtain trust which is later exploited.

  • Mmmm, I dunno. Given that this doctor (not my doctor) was using the threat of violence to my person to enable him to insert objects into my mouth or anus when I had expressly denied my consent, his thoughts that I might respond with violence might be justified.
    Usually he could claim “implied consent” but my express denial over rode this.
    Lucky for him he can cover his criminal conduct with an injection of enough anti psychotics to lay en elephant out for a week. That being lawful given the potential.
    See, it all starts when you dont want to speak to a mental health ‘professional’ (a right). This reqquires the person to be drugged with benzos and a knife planted when they collapse. The ‘professional’ then lies to police and says they are a ‘patient’ and they require assistance with them. The cops then rough em up and now they are more than willing to speak to the ‘professional’. ‘Verbal’ them up on Forms and effect the kidnapping using police. Now drugged without their knowledge and locked in a cage you have every reason to think they might ‘resist’.

  • “If we are managing social problems like violence, then we clearly are β€œtreating” a socially unacceptable behavior. ”
    Ouch. I’ve been trying to think of a group of people who medicalised social problems and then treated them and ….. oh wait the National socialists in Germany 1940s. Theres a quote in the comments of one of Bonnie Burstows articles about the Jew being like an infected appendix.
    I even heard Obama backing away from his “treatment” comment regarding the issue of race relations in the US.
    Treatment? More like heresy. A quote from my medical records regarding violence. “Potential for violence but no actual history”. This prejudice and paranoid delusion on the part of the doctor means that I am to be “chemically restrained”?
    More than a slippery slope this one. An abject failure to learn from history.
    There are many forms of violence, the silent violence being done to those labelled patients being one. Fight fire with fire? Maybe.
    Continue to ‘treat’ people as something less than human and expect them to behave to the highest standands of humans? Saul Alinksky would be proud to see his tactics being used in this manner.

  • I agree with you on this area of psychiatry rasselas. Seen it with my own eyes.
    Only problem I have with it is the combining of the roles of judge, jury and executioner.
    I often wonder about the recent exposure of the abuse of children by members of the clergy. Have they avoided the confessional knowing that to do so may result in punishment? Have they forgiven themselves and simply remained silent? Certainly not in some cases. These criminal acts were viewed as “character flaws” to be corrected. And then we find hundreds of victims and a system that failed to adequately deal with these character flaws. Forgiveness is not unlimited, and it should be a standard that all people are held to account on for some sins.
    Still there are mechanisms in place to test the integrity of those with power, and should they fail those tests I feel pity for them. No good calling out to a God they dont believe in when the shark sinks his teeth into them lol
    “Such is Life” Edward ‘Ned’ Kelly on the day they hung him in Pentridge Prison.

  • Hi Chaya,
    Ive been watching a tv series called Catch and Cook recently. It covers a lot of the local food that is available, and did not seem to have the negative health effects associated with MacDonalds etc. Things like flying foxes, goanna, stingrays, bush turkey, mud crabs etc. People seemed relatively healthy on this diet for 40 000 plus years, and then started getting all sorts of health problems with the introduction of other foods. So i’m with you on these ‘newcomers’ to the scene telling us their pills are the only solution.

    Just a general question about gaslighting. It seems to me that in order to be gaslighting that the element of intent must be present. I watched the movie Gaslight a couple of times and I noticed that (spoiler alert) Charles Boyers character did not actually deliberately use the dimming gaslight to drive his wife insane. It was an unintended consequence of the search for the jewels. No doubt he was doing other things with the intent of driving her crazy but the gaslight, it seemed to me, was just an added bonus.
    Not denying that there are people who use this tactic with patients or others, but be sure that it was intentional and then get em out of your life I say.

  • Ah I understand now.

    What Cool Hand Luke called ‘gettin his head right Baus’. In other words seeing things from their point of view. And until you do understand their ‘failure to communicate’ leaves them feeling inadequate.

    Sorry to hear about your friends Rachel. The exploitation of a position of trust is an evil deed, and personally I pity anyone who knowingly does such an act. There’ll be the devil to paye to use an old nautical phrase.

  • I guess so Rachel777 if you are of the opinion that there is nothing you can do to escape your situation (the electric shock in the case of Seligmans canines). The situation is hopeless is a form of insight.
    During the 7 hours I was being tortured (in the strict legal sense of the term) I did not once believe that escape was impossible. The coercion used after my complaint about being tortured was something else. Driven to insanity for the sake of a preferred consensus reality. Still, imagine how they all felt about calling Noah mad when the rain started falling lol.

  • “Its disgusting. Its criminal. Its inhuman”
    Its profitable.
    Glad you point out the learned helplessness nature of the whole system Stephen. When you look at the attributions surrounding the ’cause’ of these ‘illnesses’, who are the ones that do best? The whole process is about psychologically assaulting the person until they are like Seligmans helpless canines.
    Seriously, talk to any compliant patient and they all attribute their ‘illness’ to and internal, stable and global cause. Its uncanny really, and yet makes complete sense when you see it for what it is.

  • Missed the edit time.
    No doubt there were problems with the survey methodology, but a little quick on the draw with the ‘mental patient’ slander. Not much chance of learning from ‘service users’ if this is the response. Maybe they have an end in mind and then listen to hear what they need to hear in order to give em what they want.
    Like the Minister for White Affairs in BabaKiueria said “Were the Government, we tell people what they want, and then give it to them” lol


  • Thanks Julie. Good to see you and Puzzle.
    Note dru mentioned carrots and I turn up :). Seems that modern psychiatry ran out of carrots a long time back, its all stick these days in Oz. The basic idea behind terrorism is kill one to scare a thousand and a lot of people seem to be very compliant given that these human rights abuses are being sanctioned by the State (and thus it doesnt meet the definition of terrorism). It does however look a lot like a police state and not a constitutional democracy. I want my carrots back lol

  • I read johnchristines comments about torture and home invasion and think back over my journey.
    What I can say to john is that there is a difference as to whether you are legally defined as a patient or not. If you are, then according to the Convention against the use of torture the distress and suffering is “inherent in or incidental to lawful sanction”. I know it sucks and renders the Convention virtually worthless but ….. I didnt write it. If your not a patient though, different matter.

  • Benzos in the drink in my instance. Any complaints and your paranoid delusions seem to require some ‘medicating’.
    I have written to numerous people requesting I be provided with a list of chemicals which I can be drugged with without my knowledge, and who other than a bus driver can authorise such ‘medication’ regimens, particlarly for drugs I do not have a prescription for but am yet to receive a response.
    Wouldnt be problem if I didnt have the proof but …..