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Thanks Steve, well put.
Yes, I too still suffer the repercussions of being kidnapped, locked up and drugged by psychiatry. It plunged me into my first ever and only “psychosis” at age 50. Now over 60 I still find it almost impossible to trust my fellow human beings and am terrified of the power doctors have to detain and drug.
In my journals at the time I referred to them as my “gaolers” and “torturers”, and it took me quite a while to get off their drugs…Olanzapine and Mertazapine and then Prozac. What hell they caused me.
Community treatment orders, especially with depot injections are another horrific means of torturing innocent people who have done nothing that could warrant their sentence under regular mechanisms.
Psychiatry is there purely to control and torture innocent people, to act as judge, jury and gaoler and to step in where, because of human rights and the letter of the law, the general judicial systems dare not go.
I am actually pleased articles such as this are published here as it gives readers and researchers who have learned the ACTUAL facts about early intervention, “anti-psychotics” etc a chance to rebut what would appear to new/undeucated readers to be a plausible, reasoned piece by an expert.
This sort of pieces appears unchallenged throughout the internet, and quite often opposing views go unpublished. Here, however, there is likely to be reasoned, researched and balanced critique that not only educates the public, but also the writer.
The danger of NOT publishing such pieces, I believe is that MIA will become merely an echo chamber.
To me, part of MIA’s great value lies in the fact that many of the commenters provide me with both a structure to critique such pieces myself, and facts that I can use when people in every day environments start spouting such crap about the need for more of the same, more drugs, more psych wards, more labelling, more oppression.
I strongly disagree with the views expressed in the article, but the more such articles that get published here, the more likely it is that a wider audience will see the medical model dissembled and understand that psychiatry is a total and very dangerous scam.
Yes…I think the therapists almost have to be dishonest and that comes through at some level in the relationship and can leave the patient uneasy.
I do believe that before the therapist was so destructive, I was actually getting quite a bit from it, and it opened paths and interests within me that I hadn’t previously appreciated, so in those ways it was positive, and I have managed to hold onto some gains.
However, the brutal ending made that extremely difficult and did cause new problems that I still struggle with.
I have been reflecting too, that when in therapy we are actually looking for things that are “wrong”, and making things that we may have seen as positive in the past into negatives. The handing over of power and trust was a condition of working with that particular therapist, and that, of course, exacerbated the power imbalance.
I read a piece recently (not sure where) that actually examined whether therapy helped and came to the conclusion it frequently did more harm than good.
Kallena….I actually hope she doesn’t risk going there again!
After extensive therapy that has included appalling behaviour by therapists which was then somehow the fault of MY diagnosed “mental Illness” , I have decided that therapy, and the power imbalance it involves, is just far too open to abuse.
Actually, therapy IS abuse. Its basic premise is that the therapist is ALWAYS “healthier” than the patient, and that the patient has less insight and less ability to see what’s happening than does the therapist. Hence, it is also intrinsically devaluing.
I had a psychiatrist unilaterally, totally unexpectedly and brutally end what had seemed to be a productive three-year therapy relationship by throwing me out of his office with a string of abusive and totally inexplicable statements, and throwing back at me the most sensitive things I had told him as evidence of my deficits. He didn’t have to give any explanation of his behaviour because he was the doctor and I was the patient and there were no witnesses.
Ten years and 14 days later, I still have nightmares and real trust issues that were not there before “therapy”. I had formed a deep and trusting attachment to him and to have it shattered like that was devastating. My next therapist suggested that perhaps the first therapist was “lovesick” and didn’t manage his emotions very well….uhmmmmm…and that was supposed to make it OK? The second therapist didn’t want to say anything though, because therapist #1 was “a more senior psychiatrist”.
I would encourage anyone to seek genuine, equal, relationships instead. This takes time and effort, and yes, there will be setbacks, but such relationships, particularly if approached mindfully, are fundamentally healthier and less likely to lead to catastrophic injury and/or devaluation.
CBT is freely available online, there are plenty of apps for meditation – there’s no need to put yourself through the risk of allowing an attachment to develop with a therapist/psychiatrist who is hiding their deficits behind their professional status!
…and why is the blatant deception inherent in this study so unsurprising?
The truth is that psychiatry and pharmaceutical companies will do ANYTHING possible to ensure the continuing flow of human fodder to ensure their money-making machines continue to grow. It doesn’t matter to them that it’s CHILDREN who are being irreparably damaged and hooked into the system for life – they see it as a major achievement.
And what’s more, it’s children of higher than average intelligence whose parents are being sold the lie that their children are quite fundamentally defective.Tragic.
Can psychiatry become any more morally and ethically bankrupt?
I too got to that sentence and thought WTF???!!!!
The serotonin/chemical imbalance stuff has been long defunct, and yet here is an article that says the serotonin gene has no link to depression, also saying that SSRI’s work. Don’t they see the blatant contradiction here?
I think not. I think they would actually have to admit that their “treatments” are actually abusive and destructive and cause their “patients” (read victims) enormous harm.
My thought exactly…remission??
Uhmmmm, what about recovered?
The use of “remission” for full functioning after 10 years validates false arguments that “mental illness” is there for life and that there can be no permanent recovery. Friends of mine have been told they have gone into remission immediately after cancer treatment and are fully recovered after five years clear of cancer, and yet 10 years clear of “psychosis” is still considered “remission”?
So, how long does one have to be fully functioning, “medication”-free etc to be considered recovered?
…Or, perhaps more poignantly, why is a “psychotic” event considered an illness at all, rather than an event that can lead to personal understanding, growth, and development if treated sensitively, compassionately and wisely?
This and other studies have shown that “antipsychotics” lead to worse outcomes and/or permanent brain damage, and yet psychiatry continues to prescribe these drugs at ever increasing rates.
When will psychiatry remit and allow it’s victims to recover?
“Regarding the idea that those who recover are “lost to follow up”, this is what Slade and Longden were saying in their critique of the Jaaskelainen study that formed the centerpiece for the pessimistic statistics which Johannessen et al quoted in their introduction:
“Sampling strategy, a.k.a. exposure bias — Jääskeläinen primarily took her sample of “schizophrenics” from studies of people entering hospital settings or in regular contact with services. As Slade states, “many people live with psychosis-like experiences outside of mental health services. Their ability to self-manage without attracting the attention of services indicates a lower level of severity and a higher rate of recovery. This means that people with less severe difficulties are systematically less likely to be present in the samples included in the Jääskeläinen review.”””
I guess the point I was aiming at (granted, not well expressed at all on my part) was that the system actively makes people sicker through its treatments, and this not only adds to the sampling bias, but conceals harm. Slade makes the dangerous assumption that anyone who escapes the system to self-manage in the community had less severe difficulties to begin with. I am saying that anyone in the system is being actively made worse than they need be and that’s why there is such a low apparent recovery rate.
I would question the assumption that only the less disturbed people escape and self manage. I posit that the people in treatment become SICKER and hence remain in the system as a direct result of that (often forced) treatment, while those who escape treatment fare better. They may have had the same level of “illness” to begin with, but we’d never know because of the sort of assumption Slade makes. It basically dismisses anyone who escapes as not being severely “mentally ill”, and hence minimizes an important consideration – that treatment actively worsens outcomes.
My “psychosis” was very severe indeed (certainly not minor or “psychosis-like”), and I was told I would face the rest of my life as a regular involuntary patient in psychiatric “hospitals” ….the shrink actually told me I was now on “the revolving door of psychiatric hospitalization” and would remain there for the rest of my life….and proceeded to write scripts for the drugs that were, it turns out, making/keeping me ill.
Despite my (prescribed and mandated) drug-induced fog I managed to focus enough to do some research and begin a taper. I didn’t tell the shrink as he would have re-instigated forced drugging (he didn’t appreciate patients who were “non-compliant”). It took weeks to read and retain what should have taken hours, and many months to withdraw.
Had I continued doing as I was told, I’d likely still be on the revolving door of forced treatment and would fall into Slade’s category of more disturbed to begin with. As it is, I now fall into Slade’s less severe category, simply because I escaped.
I think research by Harrow and Wunderink sort of supports this contention.
I can relate to this…while forcibly detained and drugged in “hospital” I made notes on what was happening on the ward.
When I got copies of my hospital records (by navigating the complex legal processes myself) there were comments by nurses about my writing and how I “had delusions I was a writer”. Writing had actually been my profession for some 20 years before I switched into the senior management role I had when admitted.
The staff simply couldn’t or didn’t want to comprehend that I was a well educated professional….every positive part of my personal and professional history ceased to be of any relevance as soon as I became “mentally ill”.
I became purely my (fraudulent) “illness” in their eyes, and that’s how I was supposed to remain for the rest of my life….and they let me know it and forced on me drugs designed to ensure that outcome.
Keep your aspirations!…and your absolute distrust for anyone who professes to want to help you with your “mental illness”.
Excellent piece, Matt…thanks.
…and, of course, these studies that say 9-21% recovery rate only include those who stay in “treatment”. They actually prove how damaging and destructive “medical treatment” is for so-called “mental illness”. Around 80% of their “patients” will be disabled for life. Makes one wonder why they are allowed to persist.
Those of us who don’t like those odds (and the forced drugging and extreme abuse that kept us entrapped and terrified) find ways to exit the system completely and disappear back into society as soon as possible. We of course were lost to them and couldn’t be counted.
I had one very severe “psychosis” (aged 49 FEP) and was forcibly drugged and incarcerated in a hospital back in 2004. It took me ages to get off Olanzapine and Mertazapine…it has now been 7 years since my final neuroleptic drug-taking, and apart from reacting with fear to doctors and any mention of “mental illness”, I function just fine and am continuing to improve (memory, emotional regulation, physical balance, bloods etc). I didn’t function at all while I was in “treatment” for an “illness”, because that abusive and destructive drugging kept me “ill” and in the system.
I don’t doubt I’d still be in and out of forced “care” had I accepted their model of “mental illness”.
Here in Australia people have been charged with offences for refusing recommended life prolonging, but painful and invasive treatment to terminally ill children!
Heavens above….the doctors can force appallingly distressing treatments on kids to give them an extra few weeks of living hell, and their decision can overrule that of the parents. WTF? That’s torture too.
As an unwilling recipient of psychiatry’s torture which has left me with some deep emotional scars, I can only but agree that until psychiatry is wiped off the face of the earth and, in fact, ANY other forced medical treatment is totally outlawed, every person is at risk from doctors. They have far too much power.
My thoughts exactly…there’s just as much scientific evidence for prescribing them off-label as there is for prescribing them on-label…..NONE.
Plus, prescribing them at all risks great harm as they CREATE chemical imbalances in the brain (and probably gut also), are addictive, and have horrible side effect profiles.
The argument isn’t about whether they are prescribed off-label, it’s about whether they should have been approved in the first place, and now we know the extent of the misrepresentations of their efficacy and safety that got them approved, whether that approval should be revoked and they should be removed from the marketplace.
What the study appears to highlight is how “mental health treatment” is totally ineffective and simply captures more and more people without providing any effective results whatsoever. A psychiatric diagnosis is a diagnosis for life. The profession refuses to see that recovery is possible and, indeed, it is nigh on impossible once hooked on psychiatry’s drugs and weighted down with the concrete boots of a DSM diagnosis.
In reality it stigmatises people and gets them hooked on both diagnoses and addictive “medication” (ie legally prescribed drugs). The nature of psychiatry is to consign people to the scrap heap of permanent disability while it’s practitioners and drugs companies rake in enormous profits.
So why does anyone let it continue? I don’t get it!
Agree completely. These places are crimes against humanity.
Very sad news.
His blogs were informative and challenging, and he was passionate about his subject(s).
That was my stance on my second stay….be very nice, take the meds (and where possible spit them out ASAP), agree with everything, smile.
You get out quicker that way. Haven’t been back since.
As a woman of 50 with no history of violence or psychosis, I was stripped of my human rights, and locked up in a psychiatric “hospital”. The trauma of it dumped me into my first and ONLY “major psychosis”, for which I was forcibly drugged with Olanzapine and Mertazapine. I was held in “hospital” and drugged for six weeks.
Being so totally stripped of my human rights was the biggest trauma of my life and within four months of being released I had made a very serious suicide attempt.
Twelve years later I am free of psychiatry and have been off the “drugs I would have to take for the rest of my life” for more than seven years, and have had no further “psychotic” episodes.
However, I still have nightmares and my responses to stress are extremely difficult for me to deal with. I was unable to return to my former highly successful career.
The psychiatric violence committed against me and total denial of my human rights (I was treated as a sub-human life form) changed my life…and not for the better.
I had committed no crime, had no history of violence and psychiatry’s violent and abusive actions against me have traumatised me…no doubt at all.
Being reduced to a sub-human life form without rights IS traumatic, it IS violence. It CANNOT be otherwise.
It is NOT health care.
Precisely what I am doing/have done, Julie.
I sold up my house etc and moved interstate, breaking all ties with “mental health” services. No-one here will ever be aware of my past, and, thankfully, as I make new friends and reach into my creative and artistic skills, I find I am being treated with respect and that I have value as a human being.
This is something that was stripped bare by the “mental health” industry and the human rights commission. To those in it I was sick, flawed, valueless, dangerous – a scapegoat for all their projections.
Now I am regaining the status of human being, each week I am feeling slightly less down and fractured, and sometimes happiness appears – I thought I might never feel hope or satisfaction or joy again, but it is returning, albeit sporadically, as I tentatively re-establish human connectedness.
What I say to anyone unfortunate to be captured by the “mental health” industry is RUN AWAY! They are committed to keeping you sick as that protects them from having to face their own human fragility.
Yes, these examples abound. Psychiatrists can and do get away with appalling behaviour towards their “patients” .
They just use the trump card – “mentally ill liar”. If that doesn’t work, they use the joker – “potentially dangerous”. They don’t need proof to use the “potentially dangerous” joker, because the dangerousness is only POTENTIAL, and hence it is impossible to disprove. Additionally, the law sees psychiatrist status as unquestionable evidence of god-like infallibility. You can have a totally clean record (not so much as a parking fine), be a responsible member of society, educated, a mother, and be over 60 and not very big, but if the shrink says you are “potentially dangerous” you can be totally stripped of all human rights. I couldn’t get my records transferred from the shrink who labelled me that way to my new treating shrink, because the old one said that if my new shrink saw my records, I would become dangerous!!! I tried to convince the human rights commission that I really was not able to read my new shrink’s mind, but they wouldn’t believe me.
The ACT Human Rights Commission sided with the first shrink and called me a liar. Wouldn’t let me know why they were calling me a liar (maybe they truly believed I COULD read my new shrink’s mind), wouldn’t tell me what evidence, if any, the first shrink had presented, as he would not give them his permission. He said my seeing the evidence against me could also make me dangerous, apparently.
It was traumatic in the extreme, really, knowing that even the body charged with protecting my human rights could be used by a psychiatrist who hadn’t seen me for years to further demean and continue his abuse of me.
However, there is a bright side – the whole sick and abusive charade gave me the angry impetus I needed to walk away from psychiatry and all “mental health” services forever.
…and if I come across another struggling human being, what I accord them is respect, and my honest presence IF (and only IF), they want it.
Thank you…this is a beautifully told story that reflects my own experience when my “consumer” status has, by either myself or someone else, been revealed.
The fact is, it leads to massive abuse both in the form of ostracism and in the form of discounting, dismissing, condescension, blaming, gaslighting and contempt. I found that if I raised any issues whatsoever about my own or others’ treatment or concerns, or if I was in any way not totally harmonious and “normal” ALL the time, it was blamed on my being “mentally ill”. Normal moods and feelings are viewed as “symptoms”, as are views that differ from those of others.
Outing yourself or being outed, even with people you have come to know quite well, inevitably seems to lead to scapegoating, sometimes subtle, sometimes blatant, so I too no longer “fess up” to my former consumer status. Not to doctors, friends, acquaintances. I no longer extend my arms to have them tied into their straight jacket.
In society’s eyes there can be no recovery from a “mental illness”….not ever….perhaps because the chemical imbalance lie was (and is) so wholeheartedly promoted by psychiatry. It certainly serves to maintain psychiatry’s customer base, as people who are blamed, ostracized, marginalized etc ARE bound to be unhappy and unwell and hence seek “help” which inflicts further harm.
“just say ” It is between me and my doctor what medicines I take”.”
Sage advice indeed, and the only way I have found to circumvent people’s overwhelming insistence that I’d be better than well if I’d just persist in finding the right combination of “medication”.
That I persisted in seeking that combination and ended up very actively suicidal, psychotic and totally unable to function because of those “medications” is totally irrelevant to them (and the doctors).
I no longer have any engagement with psychiatry and haven’t taken “medication” for 7 years, but for a few years, if anyone asked or commented etc, I also say, “That’s between me and my doctor”.
Since I have moved to another city and formed new friendship groups no-one asks, and it’s nice not to be judged and pressured.
On the other hand, might it encourage greater wariness by both prescribing doctors and the general public when it comes to “medication”?
Drug approval in the US would become meaningless and prescribers and users alike would have to turn to other countries’ assessment of drugs, effectively making all of the apparently already-dubious FDA processes less influential.
Would this really matter? Might it be a good thing, in fact, if the FDA, which appears to be run largely by and for the drug companies, were to finally drop the charade of being the protector of public health and safety?
The requirements for trials are still going to be there in other countries, and I see this as potentially taking away the influence Pharma can use internationally by saying the US FDA has approved this drug, as I doubt many would follow the US down this track.
It just really makes drug/device approval in the US even more meaningless than it already is.
Well said, Julie Greene.
If people were given full facts and truly knew the damage “mental health care” and psych drugs can do, they’d run very far away very fast!
It’s a known fact that many psych drugs are known to CAUSE irregular heart beat, heart damage, brain damage and lasting problems, as well as stigma and massive personal and interpersonal problems. To be locked up, tied down and drugged or shocked is appalling, but that is exactly what psychiatrists are allowed, by law, to do, and even if they don’t go to the extremes, their drugs are dangerous and ineffective…research has repeatedly shown this.
People should not believe it cannot happen to them. I was a well paid professional who at age 50 had her life hijacked by psychiatry. Over a decade later I am still recovering, but at least I have my life. Many others (including Carrie Fisher) don’t.
I have noticed this seemingly deliberate shift in the site’s message too.
Some articles are definitely giving credence to psychiatric labels and talking of mind altering psych drugs as if they are real medications for real illnesses.
Sad, really….but I am glad that comments are not being censored….however, the people who countered them may slowly drift away.
I certainly get your drift and agree with you 100%, Oldhead.
Yes, I experienced that too. Start as a voluntary patient seeking support for some transient emotional distress, get given allegedly safe and effective “medication” and when that “medication” makes you really ill you’re forced to keep taking it while they say they have unmasked underlying “disease” (for which there are no tests) and proceed to increase the “medication” that caused the reaction and add a few more for good measure.
Because there’s no tests to show that psychiatric “diseases” exist, it is equally impossible to prove you don’t have one! They’ve got you and they won’t let you go.
I am sure that if the general public was aware of how easily psychiatry can strip them of ALL their human and legal rights, no-one would ever consent to seeing a psychiatrist.
Frank, I couldn’t agree more!
“Now how do we return to “health”/society when “disease”/(“reason” for quarantine) is whatever they want it to be?”
Herein lies the rub…if you criticize psychiatry, they simply say it is because you “lack insight” into your “disease/illness”, and that, in itself, is a “disease” (anosognosia). Psychiatry does not and cannot provide any evidence at all that its “patients” actually have any disease or illness, and yet it is free to kidnap, imprison and drug people, and then to do it some more if they object.
And because there are no tests or scans, there is no way to prove you do NOT have one of their “diseases”.
I have been functioning in society without the “medications” (read psychiatrically prescribed mind altering drugs that pitched me headlong into hell when I had lived for the first 50 years of my life with no “mental illness”) for over 6 years, and yet I am still considered for “medical” purposes a psychiatric patient, so can’t refuse those same drugs that made me so ill.
It really is very frightening to know that a “doctor” could force drugs on me which I know will plunge me back into absolute hell and there is nothing I can do about it because advance care directives can be ignored when it comes to psychiatry’s “diseases” and drugs.
Psychiatry has left me very deeply traumatised… it is NEVER OK to imprison and forcibly drug someone, but doing it under the guise of treating a disease that cannot be shown to even exist with mind altering drugs is an absolute betrayal of both our trust in the medical profession and in human rights and justice.
Yes, from my personal experience, being on Olanzapine was pure hell, but coming off it was pure hell times three. Not only did I have to contend with the ongoing effects of the drug, but had severe drug withdrawal symptoms thrown in on top for months and months.
No human being should be forced to take this stuff (I was drugged under a “treatment order”) – it is cruel and inhuman torture.
Given there are no benefits and massive harms, no new patients should be started. I stop short of saying “ban it outright” because some people simply might not be able to get off the stuff it is so addictive.
Thank you…a nice piece.
I think one of the major reasons go on psych drugs to being with is that their doctors really do push the point – not only do they dismiss any concerns about addiction and withdrawal, they also deny side effects, and they sell the “chemical imbalance” lie.
We have been raised to trust and respect doctors, but in the case of psych meds, they are the snake oil salesmen of modern times. There is no informed consent with these drugs and no respect for the patient’s well being.
As you note, coming off them is to say the least, challenging, even with support. That doctors will do almost anything to convince people to “take their meds!” (including the use of incarceration, force and depot injections), makes it really tough for many to actually listen to their inner voice, and even tougher for them to act on it.
I think anything that can help people make that single minded decision NOT to take the drugs to begin with will always be the best position….but yes, helping people get off them once they go wrong, as they almost certainly will, is indeed a high calling.
In my case, being detained, totally stripped of my rights, forced to take drugs that made me feel like hell AND hallucinate AND plunge into psychosis (for the first time in my life), and then told I’d have to keep taking them for the rest of my life and that I could never hope to recover was more than a little traumatic.
At no stage was I violent or abusive…my response was freeze and/or flight rather than fight.
They told me that they could come to my home and lock me up again when ever they felt like it, which left me nowhere to feel safe. I own my home and it has always been my safest space. They threatened to invade it as they had invaded my mind and body.
It was abuse piled on top of abuse with no hope of reprieve, and it was called psychiatric “care”!
Then, after I got out, my shrink said I could stop taking the meds (Zyprexa and Avanza) if I didn’t like them (no suggestion of a taper and no warning of what would happen if I did stop), and said I had to go back to work even though I was still hallucinating and feeling terrified. And it was the workplace that had caused my breakdown in the first place.
No prizes for guessing what happened next. Thankfully, I didn’t succeed….obviously….but was put back on the drugs and it took me 4 years to finally get off them. That was 6 years ago and the more I read, the more I realize I still have residual symptoms that weren’t there before.
Psychiatric “care” is cruel torture and those who practice it need to be locked up and put on the same “medications” (quantities, combinations etc) that they have inflicted on their “patients”, before being released to fend for themselves.
I suspect we’d have fewer psychiatrists if that occurred as such treatment really does make one feel very suicidal indeed.
Our experience of the “medications” is so very similar it’s eerie, despite us living at opposite ends of the earth.
I have only been off the drugs for around 6 or 7 years, and although I still struggle with symptoms that weren’t there before I was put on them, I am certainly far better than I was while taking them. Hopefully one day I will be asymptomatic.
The drugs made me unable to function. They took away my career and livelihood. A simple little anti-depressant tablet prescribe by my GP and taken exactly as prescribed. When I reported side effects, I was dismissed and told I must keep taking these magic pills.
It is a cruel thing to force a human being to take drugs that the human being knows are making them insanely unwell. Psychiatrists, however, do this on a daily basis. I think THEY are cruel and insane.
Doctors are giving them out ‘cos they want to be able to offer something, and they have been convinced by big pharma money and falsified trials that they work. Drug companies also fund universities, studies, doctors’ professional development etc as part of their marketing. They pay eminent doctors BIG money to promote the drugs to their colleagues, and they aggressively put down anyone who questions this megabuck business.
People accept them because doctors tell them to and in western society we have been conditioned to trust our doctors. People also want relief from difficult feelings and are very vulnerable when tough times come along.
Greatly simplified answer, I know….but that’s the basis of it.
Uhhmmm…please quote the actual research regarding serotonin levels….even the American Psychiatric Association acknowledges that the chemical imbalance theory of depression was only ever a theory with no evidence to support it. A past president of the APA went as far as to say it was an urban myth that no serious psychiatrist had ever believed, but it was a convenient way to get patients to take their drugs.
There is no way of measuring serotonin levels in the brain of a living person.
Some “anti-depressants” that are thought to lower serotonin levels work (as well as a placebo), as do some that raise serotonin levels, and both types can be equally effective in the same patient. Other “anti-depressants” that do not target serotonin at all are equally as effective…but again, they are only about as effective as a placebo.
If you have research that proves the serotonin theory of depression I am sure the scientific world and the drug companies would love to see it – please share!
..and I should add, that they never even thought to conduct thyroid tests on me BEFORE putting me on dangerous drugs. It was only a few years down the track that a doc actually ordered a thyroid function test and discovered a problem.
Diagnosing a fictitious “mental illness” likely meant a real physical illness that was perhaps the cause of my struggles went untreated.
…and I’d add that in their ignorance and pretence of knowledge, both GPs and psychiatrists are doing massive damage as they really have very little to offer “depressed” or otherwise “mentally ill” patients other than stigma, trauma, and an addiction (often by force) to very dangerous drugs.
They should only be diagnosing and medicating biologically identifiable conditions. As it is, they are imprisoning and forcibly drugging and/or shocking distressed people without any evidence base simply because, as doctors, they have the power to do so.
It is horrendous. Thank you for speaking out.
Doctors often don’t either!
I told both my primary physician and psychiatrist about side effects I had from of a range of prescribed psych drugs and was told I was imagining them and a note was made that I was medication “non-compliant”. Among the drugs were: Ambien (notorious now, but new on the market at that point), Prozac, Effexor, and Olanzapine. All have well recognised side effect profiles which can be decidedly dangerous, but convincing my doctors that I might suffer a side effect was impossible. General response was to recommend increased dosage!
It would be interesting to see similar research done on prescribing doctors.
It appalls me that I was forcibly “medicated” with these drugs and hence actively prevented from recovering, rather than being given proper support and treatment.
Not mentioned here either (probably as it isn’t particularly relevant to the main theme of this article) is that these ineffective and dangerous drugs also appear to cause metabolic syndrome (diabetes, heart problems etc), and so shorten patients’ lives significantly and vastly increase both direct and indirect healthcare costs.
All up, the only winners with these drugs are their manufacturers and the (hospitalization) industry that sees people incarcerated so they can be forced to use them. I suspect the numbers of lives they destroy and damage done would possibly exceed those destroyed by illicit drugs.
“In my honest opinion I think ssris are way more dangerous than alcohol”.
Yes, I agree, as with alcohol we are all aware of its dangers, it is illegal to give it to people under a certain age, women are very strongly discouraged from consuming it in pregnancy, and if a doctor spots dodgy blood tests you are likely to be closely questioned and then, if necessary, given assistance to reduce your consumption.
With SSRIs, the doctor will tell you they are safe and that any difficulties you might encounter are because of YOU, not the drug. They will dismiss any side effects you report and/or INCREASE the dose and/or throw another drug into the mix to counter the effects of the first.
They will absolutely INSIST you keep using, sometimes to the point of locking you up in a “hospital” that will force the drugs upon you on the basis that you must be mad because you don’t recognise that the drugs are helping….even if you become violent and/or suicidal while taking them.
So yes….the drugs ARE far more dangerous than alcohol, and yes, I too know from experience that coming off them is hell and it can take years for your brain to recover from the assault it has suffered. Some brains never do recover.
Thank you for sharing your story and getting the message out there on these dangerous, destructive drugs.
I am still recovering from a similar experience after having been drugged with these substances for a few years – their effects, even after withdrawal can be protracted!
My sister was placed on the stuff when she was in her late teens and was a mess and in and out of psychiatric hospitals all her adult life. Then, at 63, a doctor decided to withdraw her from all “meds”. Lo and behold, after a horrible withdrawal, she is now sane again, after years of struggle and torment. The whole family keeps shaking their heads at the fact that she can carry on a conversation, can be reasonable, compassionate, and function as an adult human being…intelligent even – who’d have thought it! We had forgotten.
How many others are locked up and tortured in “psychiatric hospitals” simply because they cannot tolerate these evil drugs ?
Thank you again for speaking out.
Beautiful. Thank you, Michael.
It appears that most of the posters supporting drugs on this thread are first time posters.
I am hoping they will make the best use of this site’s resources to further investigate the thoroughly researched pros and cons of medications.
Many people are never told honestly about the potential impacts of using psychiatric medications, either because their doctors have, like many others, been unable to penetrate the pharmaceutical companies’ largely false claims around the drugs’ safety and efficacy because the real data has remained hidden until legal action has forced its release.
Only in very recent years has it become increasingly apparent that the drugs’ true risks have remained dangerously understated and the benefits have been very significantly exaggerated.
It takes time for such research to filter into medical schools and down to doctors on the front line, especially when research and continuing education for doctors is largely funded by pharmaceutical companies intent on maximising profits.
Meanwhile, patients are given one drug and when its side effects kick in, another drug is added to deal with those side effects, and then another is needed, so people end up on drug cocktails, some of which are deadly, if not in the short term, then in the longer term.
…..and they are wrongly told they have a chemical imbalance when this theory has long since been debunked and is now widely accepted by the top psychiatrists in the world, and leaders in the American Psychiatric Association and NIMH have come out and said it was never more than an “urban myth”.
Hopefully such messages will get through, and the drugs will be seen for what they are: dangerous, mind altering and mind damaging substances that hinder rather than promote recovery.
Just not taking the meds is not the answer.
Stopping them cold can induce severe withdrawal (which can be extremely dangerous) which is often misdiagnosed as a return of the “illness”, and hence proof that the meds work and are necessary.
There is information on this site and there are numerous other sites that discuss how to withdraw slowly and safely from psychiatric medications, and even with assistance from a prescribing doctor (if you can find one willing to do it), it can be a very difficult and protracted process – believe me, I have been through it!
Psychiatric medications are no easier to come off than illicit drugs, and sometimes are more problematic, especially when several different classes of drugs are involved, as is often the case.
It needs be a gradual process and can take a year (or a lot more) to taper safely…generally people expect to be able to self-manage off the drugs in days, weeks or a couple of months, and predictably, they fail….and may well end up in hospital. Occasionally someone MAY manage it, but there are lots who don’t.
Frequently, psychological support is also needed to address the underlying psycho-social and/or trauma issues that saw the person prescribed meds in the first place.
If you decide to give it another go at some stage, research thoroughly, get support and be prepared for what may be a very challenging time!
I think it is wise to continue to do what works for you, but the dreadful truth is that for the vast bulk of people these drugs are poison.
In my case, since undertaking a very slow and difficult taper, I have now been off Olanzapine for more than six years and am far better now than I ever was on it. Actually, the only time I was ever psychotic was while I was taking Olanzapine as prescribed by a psychiatrist.
Several people I know have had similar experiences. The effects of the meds have been devastating for them. Long term studies (Harrow and Wunderink, I think) have also shown poorer long term outcomes for this who are given the drugs – in those cases antipsychotics.
The American Psychiatric Association’s leaders have come out and debunked the chemical imbalance myth of depression, and drug companies have had to pay billions of dollars as a result of false claims of efficacy and safety in well publicised law suits.
It is extremely imporrtant that people who try to come off these meds do so very carefully indeed – this site has a wealth of information that can help.
Very well put.
We need informed consent, and NO involuntary detention and drugging with these appallingly damaging substances!
Yes, these are excellent points.
In my experience as a patient, my treating psychiatrists also absolutely refused to hear what I was telling them about my extremely negative experience of their drugs.
They INSISTED their clinical experience was that the drugs worked, and therefore, my experience was not valid. I have to wonder how many other patients experienced such behaviour by psychiatrists who then go on to claim that their “clinical experience” is that the drugs work.
If they will only listen to the patients who agree with them, and roundly chastise and/or forcibly drug those who don’t, then their “clinical experience” is worth nothing at all!
Oh….thanks for clarifying para 2.
…and me. Olanzapine (Zyprexa) is EVIL. It creates a living hell and is a nightmare to come off. Since coming off it 6 years ago I haven’t even been close to being psychotic.
Steve said: “I’d love it if you could comment further on the “Placebo washout” approach described so clearly in the first study. It appears that they systematically removed anyone who got better when coming off antipsychotics. This always seems like a pretty sleazy maneuver to me. If you have people whose quality of life IMPROVES when they STOP the “treatment,” wouldn’t that be very important data? I’d love to compare the “washout” folks at 52 weeks to the Zyprexa users at 52 weeks. ”
Yes! This was my thought exactly.
Their management of and failure to report on the placebo washout group is nothing short of academic malpractice…and there seem to have been so many of them. Throughout the study, they have conveniently excluded anyone who didn’t respond in a way that could be used to promote their drugs, and no real follow-up or explanation has been given. If a study starts with, say, 400 people, all 400 should in some way be accounted for at the end…including deaths, refusals, etc.
A study should NOT begin after you have excluded a whole bunch of people you recruited and then decided you didn’t like, because their reactions didn’t fit your preferences. It is academic dishonesty.
…and then for Pies et al to revert to anecdotal “evidence” from their years of “caring” for their patients as being superior to any data from any study…well….
Another excellent piece. Thank you Robert
The title is an oxymoron!
…and the remainder of the article goes on to highlight why, so thank you once again, Dr Hickey.
This quote from Dr Frances stood out for me:
“Most people with mental illness are nice, polite, well mannered, well meaning, decent people. They suffer, but don’t cause suffering.”
Perhaps, then, this could be added to the next DSM as a new symptom across all “mental illnesses”.
…. and behaving like a Trump could become the primary definition of “mental health”. After all, the DSM currently doesn’t have a clear definition of “mental health”.
Lovely piece. Thank you for sharing you excellent dream and freedom.
I too have noticed how carefully you have to wean them They get REALLY upset and try to drag you back. Whether it’s ego or dependence or something else, it really is very weird, almost cult-like how they’ll come after you and try to force you to stay.
Even years down the track each trip to the primary care physician will include a plea to return to your mental illness and its associated “carers”, with offers of drugs and total denial that you are, in fact, doing far better without them and that remnants of grief relate to trauma they inflicted. It is totally beyond their desire and/or ability to comprehend that their and/or their colleagues’ “care” may have been problematic.
Very glad you have escaped. Live well!
“It’s torture, and it is all-too-common. It can heal, but I found it to be more tricky to heal than the effects of the drugs, and I’ve had plenty of experience with both. The post-traumatic stress from bad therapy can be overwhelming, and hard to detect. It’s insidious.”
The author also says, “With the advent of the DSM, the so-called “bible of psychiatry” and modern psychopharmacology, the pendulum has swung back to a biological view of mental illness, supported by significant success of pharmacologic intervention.”
The “significant success of pharmacologic intervention” has been shown to be a total misrepresentation of the facts. Children do no better academically, their growth, development and self esteem suffer, and there is increased likelihood of all sorts of difficulties in later life.
The closing paragraph, particularly, “While medication may have role to play in alleviation of symptoms of inattention and hyperactivity,….” falls back on the belief that these mind altering DRUGS (and that’s what they are) actually help the child….they don’t, they may help the adults who have failed to attend to the child’s needs adequately, but they damage children. They also help doctors perpetuate the belief they have something to offer in this field, and make lots of money for both them and pharmaceutical companies.
As Liz states above, there are far better sources of information on the mythical “illness” of ADHD.
Promoting the drugging of children is offensive.
Very well said indeed. Thank you
I agree. Forgiveness is a crock of sh*t when it comes to serious abuse. To forgive some acts is effectively to condone them, which lessens one’s self and validates the abuser’s actions. There are some things that are not, and never can be, OK. Simple.
Those things, when they happen, necessitate grieving and deep reflection on the echoes and responses they elicit within us, and when we get to the heart of those, then it is possible to move on in life free from, but forever changed by their effects. Not easy, and very painful.
Thanks for this article at this time, Dr Breggin.
The role of healer/helper and jailer/drugger are mutually exclusive.
How anyone could believe that locking another human being up and drugging them could be “therapeutic” is absolutely beyond me.
The day I was locked up I frantically searched for an unlocked door. I, a woman, was placed with high dependency males, who were heavily drugged. One threatened me sexually, another took my food and water. When night time came, as I lay cringing and terrified on my bed, a large male entered my room and announced he was my night nurse. I was the only female in an unsafe, all male hell.
That night I entered my first (and only) psychotic state. I fell through the pits of hell. I had failed both the gods and the devil and was destined to be the butt of every type of abuse for eternity. I was too scared of what my jailers (ie the psychiatrists running the hospital) would do to cry out or move, so I fell silently, endlessly, and alone. It was revealed to me that the purpose of the hospital was to make me totally powerless so I could never function in society again as a human being, but would be forced to live like a rat, hiding and scavenging.
Now….what makes anyone think I would co-operate with this aim? What makes anyone think that I would give these tormentors any information that would help them achieve their aims?
My tiny fragment of remaining sanity was directed to getting myself the hell out of there with as much of my apparently-totally-evil-self in tact as possible. ‘Twas difficult, given the drugs they forced on me, and the abuse and violence of the place, but 6 weeks later they let me go.
A helpful experience? Therapeutic? Shortly after I very nearly succeeded in suicide.
Yet such practices continue throughout the world, and from what I see, the good doctors – highly trained psychiatrists – continue to be surprised when people are not totally delighted with their treatment….after all, being terrified into a psychosis and then drugged is all “for your own good”.
…and herein lies the rub.
Yes, these awful drugs are massively over prescribed and no-one is warned of their dangers or their addictiveness, so people simply are not prepared for the difficulties that befall them when stopping.
Telling people to cease medication abruptly is cruel, irresponsible and potentially dangerous, but if they go to their doc and ask, any difficulty is put down to the return of “mental illness” and not the drug.
Until the medical profession actually changes its tune and decides to behave ethically, banner drops are likely to weaken the cause if they encourage people to abruptly stop their meds, and their resultant suffering only gives credence to the belief that “anti-psychiatry” is clearly populated by dangerous nutters.
Primary care physicians must be educated and be in a position to help people transition off these drugs.
I hope you don’t mind if I chime in here.
Perhaps raise the issue of gradual withdrawal and see how your doc reacts.
If (s)he is open to it, pretend to gradually come off. If not, just keep pretending to take them, especially if you are under a treatment order – if they know you’ve come off, you might get hit with depot injections as they HATE people who are “non-compliant” even if they obviously do better off the drugs – it’s a power thing…absolutely nothing to do with health care.
It is precisely the same in Canberra, Australia. Two admissions over 10 years ago for me (not to avoid prison or anything, though), and I still suffer severe PTSD as a result of their barbaric drugging and other treatment.
I now am totally clear of their “medication” for more than five years…be careful, coming off it is tricky and dangerous…but still suffer flashbacks and intense fear because I know that now I have a “history of mental illness” ANY doctor can lock me up at any time for any reason, with no evidence needed and no chance of defence on my behalf.
Psychiatrists are severely sick and VERY dangerous people.
I hope that Otto manages to get out reasonably in tact.
“Do you see Doctors experimenting to create blonde hair and blue eyes, or people trying to help those who are too sad or too angry to function in society in a civilized manner?
The problem isn’t the medical community trying to fix societal problems like returning soldiers, homeless, ex convicts, under paid, over worked, people.”
If they’re “trying to hep”, then they need to look at what they’re doing. “Trying to help” while destroying lives with dangerous drugs which have been proven neither safe nor efficacious, is no more acceptable than destroying lives by any other means.
Just because they’re “TRYING” doesn’t excuse the damage they’re doing. Their pledge is, “first do no harm” and yet there’s amplye evidence that they ARE doing harm, and that they’re aware they are doing harm, but choosing to persist.
Whether that is for reasons of financial or reputational gain, or even reasons of ignorance, it remains inexcusable.
They collect big paychecks, they are in positions of trust, and they are supposed to undertake ongoing training to stay abreast of scientific studies , so they have a responsibility to those they treat.
Just read the front page of MIA on any given week and you will find studies (academic and peer reviewed) that bring into question the whole basis of psychiatric “illness”, “treatment” and safety.
Read the blogs by highly respected specialists and survivors, and read the comments below those blogs, and you will find there are very significant reasons to question the status quo.
A system that “tries” by enforcing its misguided “treatments” and causing harm is no more excusable than the Nazis’ eugenics programs….it’s possibly worse because it is cloaked in trust and academic respectability – at least the Nazis were honest in their aims.
Yes, I was, and it was tough, and yet I came through it and gave birth to raised two very well adjusted, highly educated (adult) children who are making excellent contributions to society. What’s more they are ethical, caring and empathetic human beings with whom I like associating.
I was making a very solid contribution too…. until psychiatry got hold of me.
Now…with something like 50% of people experiencing some sort of “mental illness” (and hence in your view potentially requiring sterilisation or extermination), that’s getting towards genocide on a scale the world has never before seen.
However, the only people capable of carrying out such actions would have to be diagnosed as “psychopaths” or whatever the current DSM label is, and hence, being “mentally ill” also would need to be gotten rid of, so eventually, there’d be no-one left!!!
“They also found that those who recovered without formal treatment reported a substantially higher quality of life than those who received treatment, though their scores were still lower than healthy controls.”
Confirms my experience…being medically “treated” for depression plunged me into a nightmarish saga of drugs (ie prescribed “medication”), involuntary hsopitalisations, maltreatment by psychiatrists, PTSD and permanent inability to work as a result. And then there was/still is the protracted withdrawal from their drugs and an abiding fear of doctors and authority. All this after having been a highly productive member of society until I was diagnosed with and treated for a “mental illness” at 50. I was simply overworked and stressed out and needed a break and a bit of R &R, not a diagnosis, drugging and stigmatisation.
“First, do no harm”……? The “mental health” industry as it is now is PURELY about doing harm. This may or may not be malicious, but rather than seek out ever more victims for its mill through screening programs, it needs to STOP and REFLECT on the damage it is doing to the mostly innocent, healthy, functional people it snares in its net!
Life can be tough, and people can be unhappy, fearful, grieving, tired, stressed etc and this study shows that people get through it better without “help” from professionals as these reactions are normal human responses to our environments.
That is LiberalMinority….not you, of course.
Reincarnation of JackDaniels, methinks….only angrier.
That amount of money to make people physically ill, while at the same time as not addressing their emotional issues is sickening.
There is no proof for either the safety or efficacy of “anti-depressants”. They have merely exacerbated social and economic problems by pretending to address a “chemical imbalance” that makes people unhappy by drugging unhappy people into states of numbness. People are unhappy when they have bad experiences, and drugs, be they alcohol, prescription, or street drugs never have and never will address social and/or interpersonal distress.
With 5.5million pounds a week the government could do a hell of a lot to start to address social issues, but hey….that wouldn’t benefit psychiatrists or big pharmaceutical companies, and they are the real “clients” here. The human beings who are drugged and who suffer as a result are just fodder for the machine, just as young men were “cannon fodder” in wars of old. Only now, it is largely women and the philosophically “disobedient” who are the targets of magic bullets.
JD is back?
Hocus Pocus Diagnosis
Psychiatrists aren’t called “shrinks” for nothing.
They shrink the world view to fit their very narrow definition of what it means to be human by diagnosing anything THEY (collectively) decide is not “desirable” even if it is within the gamut of being fully human. All they have to do is vote it into the DSM.
…and once the behaviour/belief/not “normal” cluster of traits is in the DSM it can be medicated, by force, and the person to whom the diagnosis has been stuck can do absolutely nothing about it.
They can be locked up, shackled, injected, have severe and life threatening seizures induced via ECT administered by “doctors”, and denied every human right imaginable just because psychiatrists want to increase their own power, position and earnings.
None of the treatments have been shown to be either efficacious or safe.
None of the “diseases” have been shown to exist.
Being female and “misbehaving” or complaining of not being totally fulfilled (ie not being happy with limited opportunities, abuse, or subservience or not being horny on demand regardless of partner’s behaviour) almost guarantees being questioned on your sexuality and diagnosed and heavily medicated.
Psychiatry is purely about social control and enforcing their view of what is “normal” pretty much on the basis of what can earn them and/or big pharma money and what delivers maximum power and control into their hands.
The control is applied to race, gender, behaviour, thoughts, actions…or anything else they see fit, or unfit.
I was raped by three young men when I was 12…almost 50 years ago….and recently let it slip in conversation to a friend who has known me for for nearly 30 years.
She was shocked and has since treated me with kid gloves, even though the event has just become an integral part of the human experiences I have had…I mean, it was 50 years ago, and I have since been through a lifetime of living and of love, and she used to respect that.
…but now, it seems, I am irredeemably and shockingly damaged in her eyes, and must but “mentally ill”.
I have found it thoroughly stigmatizing and shall be far more careful in the future as my shrink had a similar reaction….”all rape victims….”, and it’s a re-rape.
BUT, that is essentially what shrinkology does, it is how it makes its name and its money…by convincing society that a traumatic event (or two) leave you permanently damaged and in need of ongoing “treatment” no matter how you have progressed in life.
According to them, there IS NO healing. no learning posible and so they should have the right to keep raping you with diagnoses, drugs, needles, etc…whatever they want, and then they claim YOU are dangerous!
Rape culture, for sure.
Just keep saying you’re taking them (and fill your prescriptions) and be apparently nice and compliant, gradually taper, and once you’ve been off them for a year or two very pleasantly and quietly tell the doc and/or simply don’t fill the scripts any more.
Flying under the radar is a very valid way of keeping yourself safe.
If they “offer” injections, just explain that you like to feel that you are taking responsibility and making an active contribution to your care and that this makes you feel so much better, so you’d like to continue doing it (smiling and making eye contact the whole while).
Their drugs are a lie, their “diagnoses” are a lie, but they are powerful, so become….in their nasty words…”avoidant”.
…and is a basic character trait of every psychiatrist I have ever met.
Even in their endeavors to “help” they cast the patient as “other”, less, somehow inferior and even feared. They are, of course, jumping at their own (Jungian) shadows…or projecting…or whatever name they like to use on “patients” when they express disagreement, negative opinion, or doubt about the psychiatrist’s behaviours, pronouncements, or motives.
Yes…I quite understand. I was so terrified and traumatized by being locked up and drugged, I suffered my first and only “psychotic episode” within 12 hours of it happening.
The final sentence says:
“Perhaps the most that psychiatrists can manage is to realise that while they might not wield scalpels, handle sources of radiation, or have access to cytotoxic drugs, they employ language and concepts that are potentially hazardous in their misuse.”
I point out that they just as potentially hazardous in their “use” as their misuse…perhaps more so.
It is psychiatrists who have given rise to the “diagnoses” which have no basis in fact but instead are descriptors of clusters of usually quite normal reactions to varying situations, and now they are expressing concern that normal people are adopting them in everyday non-medical use and this could be hazardous.
Well, Mr/Ms psychiatrist, that is because they are non-medical terms. They are not based in science. There is very little diagnostic consistency or reliability between psychiatrists seeing the same “patient”, so the non-medical people using these terms have as much chance (perhaps more if they are self-diagnosing or diagnosing a person they know well) of getting the fake “diagnosis” right as a psychiatrist who lobs it onto a “patient” after a 15 minute consultation.
It can be hoped that these “diagnoses” become so commonly used (read abused) that they become even more meaningless than they currently are, and that people giggle at the thought of “real” doctors actually charging people for the application of such tags.
Why pay when one can get such a “diagnosis” free from a friend or via a quick quiz on some social media site with just as much chance of accuracy and less chance stigma and serious professional fallout and/or of being prescribed dangerous, destructive and highly addictive drugs ?
On social media you might even be able to link to a site where you can buy the t-shirt!
Oh dear…such dangerous drugs, so freely used, so much actual evidence needing to be seen to inform psychiatrists of the direct treatment issues, and yet the Royal College refuses to allow its members to even have any opportunity to know about it.
What can one say? These guys are happy for their members to go on killing people and causing brain damage and PREVENTING their patients’ recoveries…what happened to do no harm? Bet there’ll be a session or two on implementing ADHD drug treatment for babies, though.
This must be astoundingly frustrating for doctors like yourself who want to see evidence-based treatment.
Before psychiatry brutalized me I was a six-figure-salaried-executive. Psychiatry kidnapped me, locked me up, drugged me and left me so totally traumatized I have been unable to return to the workforce since. Now, 12 years down the track I have been fully off meds for around six years and cope well, but still have incredibly debilitating reactions to any stress whatsoever.
That they are drugging LITTLE CHILDREN and stuffing up their entire lives is unforgivable…that they are doing it to so many is, as you say, a crime of ENRON scale…bigger, even.
Keep up the good work exposing these crimes, Philip.
All psychiatrists need to say is that you (or the patient) is POTENTIALLY dangerous and you have lost every human and legal right and protection available. They don’t have to prove it and you can’t disprove it (how do you disprove “potentially dangerous”). Kafkaesque.
Doesn’t matter that they are lying, or drunk, or drugged, or abusers. There are NO protections for anyone who becomes, voluntarily or otherwise, a psychiatric patient.
…remember folks, you take ANY of their meds at any stage in your life, and you can be labelled “mentally ill” and potentially have all of your rights removed.
It is really appalling that psychiatrists, whose diagnoses are voted in or out of their “manual” and have NO scientific basis whatsoever, can overrule real doctors who treat real illnesses with real physical causes.
That they can force their “treatments’ onto unwilling victims who absolutely know that those treatments may kill them is torture…mental and physical.
That we also know that those “treatments” will worsen the condition she has and prevent her from receiving the effective treatments she needs, and that they actually CAUSE the symptoms the psychiatrists are alleging they treat, means these psychiatrists really are cruel, psychopathic monsters in the same league as Hannibal Lecter.
Be aware, people…this IS what psychiatry can do for you too, if you happen to inadvertently stumble into its domain while vulnerable.
1). please provide evidence in the form of peer reviewed academic studies that support your claim that “mental illness” causes crime;
2) Please note that, as stated in point (1) of the original article and again above, that correlation does not equal causation, so even IF you can find a study that correlates “mental illness” and crime, it will not prove causation!
In fact, there is research (academic and reviewed) that shows the “mentally ill” are more likely to be victims of crime than perpetrators….and that even excludes the incidence of people being kidnapped and forcibly detained, drugged and/or shocked.
JackDaniels wrote: “Whose (sic) going to pay for you to get treated for your mental illness when you become a danger to society?”
Note he says: “WHEN you become a danger…” This assumes as fact that any/all “mental illness” will result in a person becoming “a danger to society”. This is not the case and, indeed, it is a proven fact (through validated academic research) that people with “mental illness” are more likely to be victims of violence than they are to be perpetrators.
Why, JackDaniels, do you insist on pedaling blatant misinformation designed to see further discrimination and forced treatment of innocent people? What do you gain?
Why, MIA, do YOU allow these offensive and abusive posts to continue? Were JD putting up scientifically validated facts re the effectiveness of treatment, and medication, and the actual danger “mentally ill” people present, I could understand it, but the fact that he is able to post his hate speech to justify locking up and torturing people is absolutely beyond me.
“….or just not being a nuisance to society when you are off your medications and causing a scene in public.” So “causing a scene” is reason, according to JD, to be locked up and forcibly medicated? WOW. Beggars belief.
JackDaniels said: “Your inability to control your aggression is why you are a mental patient, you only give society a good excuse to put you away when you can’t control your anger and be civilized.”
This sort of insulting and gas-lighting is just what happens when patients question or confront psychiatry about its systematic and systemic abuse of vulnerable people. JackDaniels, YOU are not being civilised!
Your suggestions and comments are not being made with the love or respect you claim to support, but rather from a position of seeing someone as a “mental patient” in need of a good lesson in compliance…and if it takes forced drugging or whatever else, then it is justified because someone disagrees with YOU…you, as a non-“mental patient” have the power to be judge, jury and person who tames (by force if you so wish) a “mental patient”.
Status. That is how psychiatry works. It labels, insults and tortures people who challenge it…the techniques are clear in your posts on this forum.
“3. The drugs make them feel better, so they have the same kind of appeal that alcohol and street drugs do.”
For the most part, no they don’t. Many doctors dismiss their patients’ complaints about meds and say they should just give it a bit longer..ie 6-8 weeks, by which time it can be VERY difficult to get off them. Or they switch them to another drug which also means that the patient will be on drugs longer and have a horrible time coming off, and is then convinced by the Dr that this proves they really need the drug as their underlying illness is returning.
I know too that there is coercion. The Drs said if I didn’t take the drugs voluntarily I would be put on a treatment order and forced to take them, and/or held down and injected.
When I eventually got a Dr to agree to my coming off them (Zyprexa and Avanza…eeeekkk), he told me to just stop…no tapering, nothing, from this incredibly dangerous combo. I followed his instructions and stopped abruptly once and very nearly died. Next time I didn’t follow his suggestion and tapered very gradually indeed. It was prolonged and absolsutely horrible but I persisted.
It has now been more than five years since I have taken any meds and I am pretty much back to normal, except I have a lot of anxiety and depression if put under any stress whatsoever.
Pretty much can’t see any doctor now and have also lost any trust in both the medical and legal professions as far as human and health rights go.
If EVER you see a psychiatrist you must be aware that the second you walk into their office is the second you surrender ALL your human and legal rights.
I actually think this is where the fight against mass psychiatry can be won…by making people aware of what they stand to lose (ie all human and legal rights) BEFORE they seek psychiatric “help”.
I agree, Oldhead.
This guy is insulting, dismissive and against everything MIA stands for. I cannot understand why on earth he’s still here.
I try and avoid his posts as they can be triggering, but sometimes stumble across them regardless as there are simply so many of them. He baits people, trolls their posts and insults.
I find them truly offensive.
thank you too for putting the reality of mental “health” and human rights here in Australia out there for all to see.
Psych patients here have NO rights and no-one at all looking after their interests and wellbeing, let alone their survival.
Garth’s situation should be a very clear warning to ANYONE seeking psychological services in Australia. The instance you walk into a doctor’s office saying you are unhappy or experiencing distressing symptoms is the same instance in which you surrender every one of your human, medical and legal rights.
Yes, Jock is a psychiatrist and an absolute champion, and so are one or two others who write for this site, but they are voices in the wilderness and unless you can actually be sure to see them (or someone they directly recommend) be aware that you are entering a reality that would make both Kafka and Orwell turn in their graves and that rivals Alice’s adventures in Wonderland for pure insanity. Yet, here in Australia, psychiatrists have managed to created just that! And other doctors, governments, lawyers, and human rights commissions have been absolutely complicit.
I second that.
Thank you Jock McLaren!!!!!!!
…and you too deee042 for your part in getting him his life back.
you say, “It is horrible to hear how oppressive the system was towards this one poor individual it didn’t understand. ” I know you probably didn’t intend to imply this was an isolated case, but unfortunately, this is how the system operates for ALL patients – not just against this ONE individual.
While it did a particularly spectacular job on Garth, as noted by Jock, Australian psychiatry is absolutely abhorrent. Jock and one or two others are truly notable exceptions.
The laws do vary a little between the states and territories, but I was actually told by the Human Rights Commission that psychiatrists wrote sections of the laws pertaining to this sort of thing in my state. There is no recourse for patients and usually, there is NO escape. In my state, even the Human Rights Act denies some of the most basic rights of people who are labelled as “dangerous” by a psychiatrist. Convicted criminal in jails, however, have mandated rights.
That Jock and/or Garth’s family were able to get Garth out, maintain his freedom and begin his recovery is an absolute tribute to their love and respect for him and their ingenuity.
“That would be incredible, and might indicate how much psychological damage is being done to people by our wars.”
Yes, wars are horrible….
…. however, the figures don’t separate out the damage that is almost certainly being done by the prescribing practices of the “mental health professionals” charged with looking after military personnel from the damage of trauma inherent in such situations.
If drugging is the first line of treatment there’s probably a lot of iatrogenic injury occurring on top of the immense distress inherent in war.
Indeed…where psychiatry is concerned it is simultaneously kafkaesque, Orwellian and Alice in Wonderland-ish .
It seems to me that a major challenge is the respect and reliance society seems to have developed for psychiatry and psychiatrists to explain what seems inexplicable ie “madness” or various forms of non-criminal but very disturbing behaviour that are both distressing to experience and to watch.
When we would REALLY like there to be an answer, we seek what appears to be a credible story and solution, and psychiatrists managed to be the only people offering any explanation other than demonic possession. AND they aligned themselves with big pharma to present a “cure”…. so they got the power….and they got plenty of it…only they can lock up a person who has committed no crime for an indefinite period and force unproven and highly dangerous “treatments” onto them.
They get to testify as “expert witnesses” in court – their knowledge of human nature and the brain is unchallenged…and yet no true knowledge has ever been shown to exist. Their power is based on misinformation, myth, and fear, but as yet they have managed to maintain the illusion.
Any real inquiry into this illusion would threaten THEIR existence, so an expectation or hope that they would participate in their own destruction is somewhat optimistic….to say the least.
They CANNOT argue against the overwhelming evidence that their treatments cause harm, and so they simply do not not engage – they belittle and dismiss, they obfuscate, they mislead. To do otherwise would be to succumb to the ultimate existential threat.
All they are using now is their accumulated positional power to halt the boulder that’s coming their way…eventually, though, they will be but tenpins as Sisyphus’ boulder crests the mountain and takes its journey down the other side.
Hang in there, Robert.
…..oh, there are just SO MANY ways this evil drug will kill you, with more coming to light as time progresses.
I don’t doubt that as patients circumvent their shrinks and actually get this drug’s real effects recorded, many more will surface.
It made my life a living hell too. How forcing someone to take such a dangerous, evil and destructive drug can help them regain their emotional and mental stability is totally beyond me….and blaming the patient for not getting better while on it….well….?????
I think that what you are assuming is that psychiatric “medications” have their advertised effects with some consistency. Given the numerous instances where drug companies have misrepresented and/or hidden the facts about what their drugs ACTUALLY do and how efficacious they are, I believe that assumption is a little bold.
It seems to be being consistently shown that the “side effects” of some medications are actually far more common than the advertised effects and therefore some, say….antidepressants…., could more accurately be marketed as drugs to decrease sexual performance/enjoyment/drive.
However, there may be instances where the drugs are effective.
What irks me most, though, is that psychiatrists have the power to INVOLUNTARILY detain people and FORCE these drugs on people and then up the dose when they don’t work until the patient is non-functional and having severe physical health issues known to be caused by the drugs (eg…zyprexa and metabolic disease, diabetes etc) or other emotional/behavioural problems on top of the original complaint (atypical anti-psychotics and homicide, suicide, OCD, mania, eating disorders etc).
Take away the involuntary imprisonment and forced drugging, and perhaps there’d be room for reform, but while ever that’s in place it is impossible to achieve meaningful reform.
It is totally paradoxical to expect that people can be threatened, drugged and tortured into regaining their emotional health!
“That’s true. I consider it psychiatry-by-proxy and it wouldn’t have happened if psychiatry hadn’t used its pseudo-medical theories to give these drugs a false veneer of legitimacy as “medicines”
Yep…my primary care doc can quote DSM diagnoses to me, and once suggested I try a certain drug being trialed by one of her psychiatrist colleagues. I accepted the pack and went and researched it and was able to present the facts…it had been refused approval in the US as it caused liver failure and hadn’t be shown efficacious, and there had been reported deaths in Europe. I handed back the unopened box of pills along with the printouts of the research. Next visit I was informed that no longer were any patients at the practice taking those meds.
Shrinkology in its current form needs to be totally and absolutely discredited as it has become so pervasive in medical practice, in law, and in broader society.
Any gentler approach would take generations, and pharmaceutical companies would find ways to corrupt medicine and medical science – it is too lucrative a field for them to leave fallow.
I think people LIKE to believe in easy solutions to life’s unanswerables and so will always be vulnerable to the quick fix these guys seem to offer.
Psychiatry is far more dangerous than snake oil of the past, because it is backed by money, influence and power.
It needs to be totally obliterated, and a completely separate field set up to deal with the misery and addiction it has foisted on innocents all over the world.
Have any of the doctors or psychologists or Garth’s family considered lodging a formal complaint with AHPRA, the Victorian Medical Board, or what ever the organisation charged with professional misconduct is in Victoria?
Garth’s treatment is so far removed from any clinical guidelines anywhere in the world that it at least might be worth a try.
In Australia psychiatric patients have no rights and no protections whatsoever.
The piece is no more an opinion piece than your anecdotal claim regarding your use of ECT on your “clinically depressed” patients.
Garth has had all those shocks. The psychiatrists simply have no intention at all of stopping. That is fact.
It would certainly appear they want to murder him.
You are a psychiatrist….perhaps you could rally some of your colleagues in the US to take an international stand against such barbaric treatment and lodge a complaint with the Victorian Mental Health [sic] Tribunal and the Australian and NZ Psychiatric Association.
Perhaps if doctors and the victim’s family here would lodge complaints with AHPRA about the professional misconduct of these doctors, something might happen!! They are acting so far outside what is considered reasonable practice anywhere in the world, perhaps AHPRA might suspend them.
“Definitely some of the most important research to be publicized by MIA this year.”
I’d actually disagree – I’d say it is potentially some of the most important research to be publicized by MIA this DECADE.
That the FDA has knowingly approved such dangerous substances and/or actively and knowingly concealed the truth about them once they found out…and there is physical evidence…. is momentous.
It has already been shown that the drugs are, for the most part, ineffective, but now they are being shown to cause murder.
People were KNOWN to have committed murder as a result of taking the drugs and no-one was warned – and in the US they were likely advertised direct to the public. Cripey.
They do it because they can in Australia and they know no-one can touch them – they like the power. They look at themselves and they see their power. “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
Yep. Zyprexa is pure EVIL, and when combined with Avanza….hell beyond words…while taking it, while coming off it, and for years thereafter.
…and that combination is very widely prescribed in Oz.
Australia is pretty much a “decent psyhiatist”-free zone. Jock stands alone among the medical fraternity.
We’re a human rights-free zone too.
The moment a psychiatrist declares a person “dangerous”, no matter how ridiculous the claim, or even whether the psychiatrist has actually examined the patient (read “victim”), that’s it. No more legal or human rights for the term of your natural life. Done deal.