Seriously though, if something can be done to prevent “mental health” occurring among our youth no expense should be spared in doing so.
Glad you’re in touch with Lauren. And it’s good we’re all sort of stumbling into one another here, because we need to coordinate our goals, tactics and activities to the extent possible. The “new” group I’m referencing is actually over 3 years old by now, and includes a growing cross-section of survivors who START with an abolitionist perspective, and with other shared understandings about psychiatry which constitute our “self-evident truths” (concurrence with which is required as a condition of membership). We have been creating the organizational and ideological infrastructure for a successful anti-psychiatry effort based on a consistent and “scientific” analysis and strategy, not on unexamined assumptions and wishful thinking.
I don’t remember whether the original NAPA was an exclusively survivor organization (actually the term “survivor” didn’t come into play till later; “inmate” was the prevailing term, as more of the psych population then was physically locked up ). But it looks like information sharing is something we have in common; we hope to soon have a functioning AP website which will serve as a hub for AP discussions, organizing, education, strategizing, etc. and will be for all people, not just survivors. Wanting to have our site up is the main thing holding us back from officially announcing ourselves in an MIA article, and elsewhere (assuming our request to do so is accommodated by MIA when the time comes).
There are plenty of ways to communicate without, as Stallman says, “being used by” Facebook. I only brought this up because you mentioned your NAPA page. But FB aside there may still be a useful function for the NAPA name — one thought is that “NAPA” might eventually encompass the entire anti-psychiatry movement, with the “survivor vanguard” (us) using another name. There are all sorts of possibilities.
I mentioned elsewhere that I love what you’ve done with the Phoenix Rising archives — no spin, “interpretation” or solicitations — and the PR “alumni” we’re in touch with give you high praise. I’m wondering if you would have the capacity to do the same thing for MNN if they provided you with the raw material. Then people could go there, link it to their sites, etc. without having to worry about what sort of “baggage” might come along with it. Wondering what the general response to this might be. (I mentioned this to Jenny too.)
P.S. I should have added that on the same site the author provides a strategy for maintaining a Facebook “presence” without exposing users to as much risk; this essentially involves posting only very basic info on FB and directing people to your website for direct interaction. Check out https://stallman.org/facebook-presence.html
I have no use for “models” or “alternatives,” they are all based on the assumption that psychiatry serves a legitimate purpose, or that it tries to and fails. The real purpose of psychiatry is to police our thoughts and suppress our aspirations in the service of corporate profit. The solution to people’s personal misery lies in the defeat of capitalism and the alienation it engenders and requires, not in trying to change people’s attitudes towards their oppression, no matter what the “model.” Psychiatry is a weapon of capitalism and, just like ICE, a tool of law enforcement and containment. Why would we want an “alternative” once we’ve ridden ourselves of it?
Even more than the drugs, the destructiveness of psychiatry lies in its mystification of people’s pain, convincing them that their unhappiness with life is a problem within themselves to shamefully hide from others and “work on,” rather than arising from a collective problem requiring a political solution. So the energy which should be directed against the oppressive system is instead channeled into self-negating beliefs and behaviors.
Is that any better?
Nothing here is exactly brain surgery.
There are no “schizophrenia symptoms.” Schizophrenia is whatever someone says it is.
Oh I see this is an OLD article by now. I must have been gone longer than I thought.
Truly horrible.
Do people feel guilty about saying “anti-war” or “anti-racist”? So what’s the difference with “anti-psychiatry”?
Thank you, as always, Philip. Hey, maybe we should renamed our “movement” the Truth about Psychiatry movement, instead of the anti-psychiatry movement?
Ouch, I’m surprised at this from an AP veteran of sorts.. I’m having second thoughts about Phil indulging the idea of AP being harmful, it brings out everyone’s latent guilt about opposing oppression, which is what the system wants.
Anyway “the answer” is that learning the truth about psychiatry LEADS TO wanting to abolish it. Which means joining the anti-psychiatry movement. Simply “knowing the truth” is pretty useless unless you put what you know into action. Or as Frederick Douglas said (more or less) “Power cedes nothing without a demand.”
Sami Timimi prefers the later term because he isn’t opposed to the existence of his profession, even if he thinks it has greatly gone astray
And conclusions such as this are what makes my blood boil to see Tamimi assigned to “explain” what anti-psychiatry activists can explain much better.
There is no reason for psychiatry to exist if it is built on fraudulent principles, which it demonstrably is and always has been. This is known as logic. So MIA pays someone who profits from the existence of psychiatry to explain why it shouldn’t be abolished.
And no one is supposed to be so unkind as to see self interest, just “expert judgement.”
The fact that the Pies’es and Liebermans are so freaked out by the term “anti-psychiatry” demonstrates that it is the PERFECT term.
Karin — don’t drink the Kool-Aid. The ONLY thing psychiatry is “tasked with” in reality is social control. Everything else is tactical, and window dressing. Psychiatry already knows what it really is, it’s the people who need to learn.
Just saw this, I’m licking my lips — there has been a surge of anti-psychiatry “chatter” over the past week or so, largely inspired at MIA by the Madness Network News article and related controversies, and I’ve been preoccupied.
I may have finally detected a flaw in Phil’s approach — he has an uncompromising faith in the power of reason and its influence on the proselytizers of psychiatric ideology.
On the other hand he may be looking forward to a distant day when the collective understanding of the populace reaches the point where there are no illusions to hide behind, and the psychiatric empire’s clothes become the stuff of mockery.
Can’t wait to read the article.
Censorship is not the main problem with FACEBOOK, although of course they do that too, and will be doing it more & more in the immediate future. What is unconscionable is encouraging survivors (in particular) to unthinkingly turn over their personal information to what is primarily a tracking, surveillance, and profiling site, and which will give provide said info to date banks, government agencies and god knows who else. This is not conspiracy theory, it is easily documented; again an authoritative site explaining all this can be found here: https://stallman.org/facebook.html (I don’t see why this is even controversial; it certainly represents far more than my personal opinion.)
I would hate to see MNN “canceled” from the web, as I think the most important consideration is that our true history be accessible to all, especially AP activists. But I also consider it vital to correct any misinformation such as Jenny has mentioned, and to remain vigilant in the face of any other opportunistic attempts to appropriate MNN to promote any private agenda unrelated to fighting psychiatry. I also urge people to NOT “sign up” with or send any sort of personal information to ANYONE who is using the imprimatur of MNN to solicit it.
In fact if Jim could give MNN the same treatment he gave Phoenix Rising, with no attempts at “spin,” it would be a great service.
I’m still hoping MIA will find someone to do a memorial piece for George. Any ideas anyone?
How can something have “organizing potential” knowing the personal information of all your members and associates, not to mention your conversations, are being delivered on a silver platter to your — and more importantly their — enemies? This strikes me as irresponsible and self-destructive, especially now that FB/Google/Twitter have taken a quantum leap into totalitarianism. Please check the link to Richard Stallman for more essential info.
That aside, I or someone will be in touch soon, I believe we have your email.
So I’m awake again and still don’t really know what you’re asking, it’s pretty abstract.
You mention the “Alternatives” conference, which I never had the misfortune to attend, though I’ve heard more than I need to. Fortunately, I believe these events no longer take place. However, “concerns” is an understatement; these were system sponsored events designed to appropriate our language and our issues and lead us down the road of reformism. And they succeeded. Although MIA is not an anti-psychiatry site per se, conversations which have been taking place here have done much to resurrect anti-psychiatry/anti-reformist consciousness and help us begin to regain our direction. However there is much further to go. We need to cleanse our thinking of “medical model” concepts, and beyond that of the idea that the individual is where “recovery” efforts should be focused, rather than the system which is the source of the alienation at the heart of emotional trauma.
Can you be more specific?
I’ll come back to this because I’m about to crash and I want to make sure I understand what you’re asking.
For now, my inner smart alec wants to reply to your initial question with a Clintonian-sounding “it depends on what ‘it’ is.”
the impact of the “isms” (e.g., colonialism, racism, capitalism, sexism, ableism) must be viewed as interlocking with health
Sounds radical on the surface, but treating capitalism as just another “ism” (like “ableism”) actually plays into the hands of the corporate neoliberal ruling class, which cannot afford to recognize that in the present era racism and sexism are intrinsic aspects of capitalism/imperialism, and that they cannot be solved simply by attitude changes; they require revolution. Capitalism is the “mother of all isms.” As long as the system needs a permanent underclass to sustain itself racism and sexism will prosper, no matter how brilliant the insights into microaggression.
Why in the fucking world would you urge people to go to FACEBOOK? That’s TOTALLY CRAZY. FB is a tracking, surveillance and profiling site. It is irresponsible to send vulnerable survivors to FB to have their personal information sucked up and stored; if anything MIA should be urging people to LEAVE FB and assisting them in doing so.
It be may be moot soon anyway, as FB starts banning anything that offends the people who call us “pill shamers.”
You should be aware that there is an active survivor-led anti-psychiatry organization with a consistently growing membership which has been functioning for several years now. Some but not all our members are well known MIA “veterans” (in some cases expatriates). And we are appreciative of your work.
At the appropriate time – likely very soon — we will be contacting you, and although our organization is run exclusively by survivors who wish to “make psychiatry history,” we are open to working with all truly anti-psychiatry allies, and forming coalitions around specific issues. We haven’t officially “launched,” which will happen as soon as our website — exclusively dedicated to ending psychiatry — is finished. However many of the people reading this are aware of our existence and our basic principles and demands. (Our email is posted earlier in this thread.) Hopefully we can work together in the future in some form.
This is the first I’d heard of your relationship with Leonard, which is noteworthy. I do urge you to abandon FACEBOOK, it is primarily a tracking, surveillance and profiling site, and I consider it highly problematic to be urging survivors to go there. Additionally — if it isn’t already — FB will soon get around to banning anti-psychiatry content as “false information.” (I always recommend this site for details, written by a member of the Internet Hall of Fame : http://stallman.org/facebook.html )
Meanwhile some sad news for many people who may be reading this: As I don’t have the ability to post this as a news item, I just want to pass along that longtime AP movement activist George Ebert — co-founder of the Mental Patients Alliance of Central New York — has just died. While I do not have the capacity to write a proper memorial, hopefully MIA will find a way to get this done, even though I don’t believe George spent much time on MIA.
Getting out of the treatment trap in 5 steps:
1) Make sure shrink’s office door is unlocked;
2) Turn doorknob and open door;
3) Using legs and feet (one after the other) proceed OUT the door to the street;
4) If you are hooked on psych drugs find an expert to help you detox;
5) Join the anti-psychiatry movement.
Or, at least, the benzos and opioids should only be given to older, “chronic” patients.
WHAT? Sounds like ageism, am I missing something? Plus we already have COVID to kill off the old people and useless eaters.
Encouraging participation in “mental health” activities is mystifying and misleading. “Content” is secondary.
It’s largely semantics, as the “war on drugs” has always been in fact a war on Black and poor youth (enthusiastically championed by Biden AND Nixon prior to Biden becoming “woke”).
In any event, let’s finish off the phony war on street drugs and amp up the one on psychiatric neurotoxins. (I’m wondering, if we could morph this term to “psychotoxins” would it enter the street vernacular and thus be more a subject of mass contemplation?)
Karin — Great article, can’t find much at all to disagree with, which is unusual as people here know. I see you are already involved in your own projects — if you would be interested in working in conjunction with other survivors who are trying to deconstruct the psychiatric narrative and “make psychiatry history,” such a forum exists and we’d love to hear from you, and share our basic analyses, principles and goals. You (& anyone) can email us at [email protected]
BTW people at MIA don’t get much of a chance to discuss COVID, lockdowns & vaccinations from a critical perspective, so don’t be surprised if the comments section is flooded by COVID-related responses.
Yep, SURPRISE! — we are are entering an unprecedented era of totalitarianism and newspeak, certain to reaffirm that old saying that just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you.
Wow, I really appreciate this snowy; it heartens me to know that the essence of my argumentation does get through to some people sometimes, as I often get crickets on MIA after I post something I think is particularly insightful, only to learn months later from an email that it helped someone make a major connection. So I know not to draw conclusions based on the immediate response. But you’re one of those who “gets it” regarding the intricacies of the revisionism, albeit unrecognized, which still permeates much of our “anti-psychiatry” thinking and remains a big factor in holding back the movement to defund and abolish psychiatry.
And you’re right, is it exhausting, thanks for getting that too. But supportive communications such as yours are just as energizing.
I don’t want to divert the focus here from Jenny however, who was a tireless AP activist “back in the day,” not just a journalist, and was personally involved in many of the actions and events she describes above. I’m certain she also appreciates your effusive thanks.
Madness Network News should be considered our historical record, along with Phoenix Rising from Canada.
The “Alternatives Conference” was the product of those who disrupted and stole the movement from survivors, and will go down in infamy. It was never a part of the legitimate movement.
I & others have been attempting to educate people about movement history on MIA for years. An important part of this history is how the movement was stolen and its legacy distorted, and how the anti-psychiatry movement was replaced by the thoroughly fake “consumer movement.”
The idea of anti-psychiatry being taught in history classes is pretty out there considering that the abolition of psychiatry is considered “crazy” even among many at MIA. Why teach our “history” when the present is ignored? The movement to eradicate psychiatry is more than a “civil rights” struggle; our most essential right is the right to never be subjected to hate speech labels such as “mental illness” and “psychosis.” The primary right of a “mental patient” is to never be considered a “mental patient.”
Lost your email snowy, can you give a shout?
Wasn’t expecting this, but I’m very glad that Jenny’s article has been published on MIA; some of us are already familiar with a previous version but it needs a wider audience.
While I would disagree that there are “many” anti-psychiatry groupings at the moment, as snowyowl knows there is definitely one — which is the only survivor-run abolitionist organization with which I am familiar. I’m not talking about “peer” organizations but those whose sole goal is to end psychiatry completely or, as Auntie Psychiatry would say, to “make psychiatry history.” Those who want more info should contact us at [email protected]
There are efforts underway to put the MNN archives online, which is long overdue. However there has also been talk of “resurrecting” MNN, which I oppose. I strongly believe that the voice of the Mental Patients’ Liberation Movement should not be appropriated by current activists, as such a publication or site could easily end up watering down and misrepresenting the militant anti-psychiatry activism of that day by those who were not part of it. We should absolutely continue to create our own media. But the name Madness Network News should have a special reverence, and be preserved for the ages.
And for free at that!
Removed for moderation.
It’s a waste of time to criticize the inherent contradictions of “therapy” if the unspoken assumption is that there’s a “correct” way to assuage the inherent trauma of capitalism on an individual level — without first defeating capitalism! “Personal growth” is a form of individualism when separated from the necessity of collective struggle.
This is becoming an ever more convoluted dilemma as more and more “woke” liberals present their reformist proposals as “revolutionary” and “socialist” when they are nothing of the sort.
“Schizophrenia” is a myth. I fail to see how “autism” is any different. And yes, psychiatric labels are basically hate speech.
Cancer is part of the healing process and is a function of the immune system.
WHO is assuming that “autism” is neurologically rooted? If that were the consensus “it” would be seem to be a pathology; otherwise, like the apppendix, “it” would have no functional role in a “modern” human.
What are the current “advantages” of such a condition?
“Intersectionality” is a way of avoiding the need to eliminate capitalism, which is the “mother of all oppression.” Racism and sexism are the driving dynamics at the heart of capitalist culture; they don’t just happen to “intersect.”
No energy to get into a long academic discussion, but this would be as good a place to start as any:
Dittos & kudos to KS FWIW. A courageous statement not designed to garner mass approval.
Some would contend there can be a literal state of “neurodiversity” that bridges (or fuses) the physical (neurology) and the abstract (psychology). As such, as long as there is a physical component this is an argument for “biopsychiatry,” though I also sense that this would be denied. In fact such a fusion is impossible in a 3 dimensional world.
At best it is euphemistic to refer to purported differences in brain structure as “diversity”; should cancers be referred to as examples of “cellular diversity”? (That sounds progressive.) Or am I missing something key?
Why do you think I even care? Anyway you’re speaking in generalities. I think many people are way too preoccupied with themselves, personal feelings and their “identities.” If you have a plan for revolution and collective control of the planet that’s more the kind of thing I consider worth discussing. I’m not interested in chopping at the branches.
“Neurodivergence” is the new “mental illness.” I challenge anyone to demonstrate or explain otherwise, even hypothetically.
You survive a psychiatric labeling by rejecting it, both inwardly and outwardly. There’s no middle ground.
A world without work — the ultimate “woke” millennial fantasy!
There’s probably a point here somewhere, one which was addressed ages ago by both Marshall McCluhan and Abbie Hoffman — people don’t need “jobs,” they need ROLES.
What is being addressed as “work” here is more like capitalist exploitation, which is alienated and alienating.
“Does it work” is absolutely the wrong question. It works to do exactly what it is meant to do — to keep dissidence under control. The real question is what should be the penalty for prescribing it, and whether or not the International Criminal Court should take this up.
Let’s get our analyses straight here.
If one accepts the two basic AP principles that a) Psychiatry is not a legitimate field of medicine and ) “Psychiatry is a tool of social control,” it makes no sense to speak of sending shrinks (or their surrogates) “along with” the police. Psychiatry IS the police! It’s just a question of style. And don’t forget the guy who was murdered with a ketamine injection.
DEFUND PSYCHIATRY!
PS In a life & death situation a martial arts expert who could disarm a “crazy” person would be a much better option than shrinks OR cops!
you need to take a breather to realise and truly feel that there’s more to life than Psychiatry.
Yes — there’s Anti-Psychiatry! 🙂 Hopefully before long I’ll be able to direct you to such a site.
I just realized something else — “Virtual” is basically a synonym for “fake.” Substitute “fake” and it remains just as valid a sentence in most cases.
Or it could be taken to mean “almost,” which is another way of saying “no cigar,” i.e. fake.
Wondering how you feel about the concept of “Mad Studies,” Frank…
I’ve finally come to these conclusions: If “autism” is no longer meant to denote organic brain dysfunction it should not be used at all, as it then becomes an abstraction, like “mental illness.” And that “neurodiversity” is a term which belongs under the aegis of “biopsychiatry,” ascribing one’s personality, thoughts and feelings to physical variations in brain structure.
Psychiatry is a major racial justice issue.
Good to see you, Four Lights. You ok?
Yes, this is the burning question on the minds of those imprisoned by psychiatry and tortured by neurotoxins: Has “critical psychiatry” won the debate on reductionism?
Be careful who you’re calling “mad,” please. “Mad Studies” indeed.
Which if so would make “it” a non-category, and a non-entity, like every other psychiatric “disease/disorder.”
So beyond the concerns of professional “mh” people it appears that the broader anti-psychiatry movement needs to come to some sort of informed and reasoned consensus about the term “autism” — is it a) another “mental illness” (i.e. bogus) or b) some form of minor brain dysfunction? It can’t be both, as there is no continuum between the physical and the abstract, at least not in the material world.
Putting quotation marks around “schizophrenia” is pointless if the term is nonetheless taken to refer to something which actually exists.
Whilst some might claim that the creation of the alternative categories of “neurotypical” and “neurodiverse” is a playful liberation from the pathologising medics, it still perpetuates the “us” and “them” dynamics and further solidifies the individualisation that feeds neoliberal politics.
Despite my challenges to the context of Tamimi’s current function within the MIA sphere, I recognize a noteworthy statement when I see one.
I thought I’d throw this into the mix here as well (note that they quote NAMI as “experts” and provide a suicide hotline #):
SAN JOAQUIN COUNTY, Calif. —
A student has died after a self-inflicted gunshot wound during a Zoom distance learning class Wednesday, officials said. The San Joaquin County Sheriff’s Office announced the student was an 11-year-old.
A student has died after a self-inflicted gunshot wound during a Zoom distance learning class Wednesday, officials said. The San Joaquin County Sheriff’s Office announced the student was an 11-year-old.
More of the same. PTMF is relevant only to the unnecessarily mystified, and to professionals. The “power threat” we need to overcome is capitalism; understanding that provides a framework for the formerly mysterious to take on new meaning.
This is CHILLING! Now we have “peer specialists” acting as cops. The Empire has no clothes. Totalitarianism and Newspeak nearing full bloom!
Totally with you on this Someone.
Are we reading the same article?
Except for the lack of humans with whom to establish comradery, or even rebel. And the mask/computer factor.
But wait — where are these home computers anyway if not on desks? And who gives the orders if not teachers (with an unpaid assist from parents)?
What’s wrong with US society is people believing the problems can be solved within the structure of US society. At any rate it’s the same propaganda regardless of the format.
But that’s not even what I’m talking about. Forcing children to watch computer screens for hours on end is child abuse in itself, no matter what the programming consists of. I’m interested in what the post-lockdown suicide rate will end up being among those under 18 (though not looking forward to the answer).
And for each one of these fortuitous instances there are probably DOZENS of parent-child relationships going through utter turmoil during key years of growth and development. It’s state-mandated child abuse, essentially.
While schools are no doubt comparable to prisons in many ways, this is a lame excuse for removing children from all social contact (which poses almost zero risk to them) and sticking them in front of a screen for the better part of a day. This used to be seen as a problem, now it’s mandatory. It’s not good for your brain or your eyes. And despite the fact that it may be better than being beat up, bullied, and taunted, there are clearly many less drastic solutions, if that’s truly the concern.
Great, who’s going to translate? Am I missing something?
Again to disagree — psychiatry’s primordial weak spot is the fact that “mental illness” not only does not exist but could not exist without changing the rules of language. Metaphors are not material, and cannot have diseases, or cures. Case closed.
Of course for many to get this might first require refresher courses in logic and language.
Yes but that’s at the individual level, and corporate profits also play a role. However at a systemic level the reason psychiatry is given so much state support — and ultimately backed up by state guns — is that it functions to keep people stuck in the conformist molds necessary for the smooth functioning of the prevailing social/political/economic order. (In the current day that would be capitalism.)
Sex and gender are not the same, just as brain and mind are not the same. One is physical and describes anatomical and reproductive characteristics; the other is abstract and refers to social prescriptions for behavior based on one’s sex.
So we are not all “consumers” of merely propaganda, some of us here actually did our homework/research.
I was referring to the term “mental health consumer” as a euphemism for “mental patient.”
I do agree, help by those who know what’s actually going on within the “mental health” industry will be infinitely more helpful, than the so called “help,” by those brainwashed by the psychiatric DSM and pharmaceutical industries.
What sort of “help”? Knowing that psychiatry sucks doesn’t mean one has the ability to do what it professes to do but doesn’t, and can’t. If the problems are systemic simply identifying them is hardly a solution.
Psychiatry existed long before the DSM, with comparatively lethal results.
FACT CHECK: CORRECT.
The brain is the seat of who we are. It is where dignity, pride, our whole being is.
WHOA. The brain is a squiggly gelatin-like blob of grey organic matter — can’t believe you would say this. To wit:
“Mental illness” is a semantically absurd concept which falsely conflates the abstraction known as the “mind” with the physical brain to mislead people into believing they have literal diseases.
There was never a “Communist Poland,” as countries can not be “communist”; “communism” describes a post-socialist classless society. Just because something calling itself the “Communist Party” is in control doesn’t make it a “communist state”; this is an oxymoron.
Anyway what happened to the critique of “neurodiversity”?
OK, cool. Wasn’t sure if you were using “socialism” as a positive (as I do) or negative (as some do).
Just a reminder, one year later. We miss you Julie.
We are heading for some serious totalitarianism, that’s for sure.
I agree also that we are heading for a pseudo-socialist government, but I think we mean that in different ways. Because I believe we NEED a socialist government, but a REAL one — not the so-called “democratic socialism” pushed by academic self-defined “radicals” (who are actually “woke” liberals, not true socialists). Republicans play into this by absurdly referring to the likes of such capitalist predators as the Clintons as “socialists.” What I see in the near future is a growing totalitarianism that is presented as “socialism” but is far from anything Marx, Lenin, Mao or Fidel ever had in mind. This in turn will need to be overthrown, in a true revolution, not a “virtual” one.
Yes, my point was that you can’t “reclaim” what was never yours to begin with.
Someone else can take this.
Well, it sounds like your priorities are in order — you’re concerned with the HOW and not the WHY vis. a vis. anti-psychiatry. And while allies “on the inside” should be valued and utilized, power cedes nothing without a demand. So, I agree in general, though there’s still that little detail of “what psychiatry actually is” to work out with more precision if we are to have a “united front.”
“Peer” implies the existence higher ups, or greater authorities. The “peer-client” relationship is inherently a power relationship, regardless of the individuals involved. Particularly if the “peer” is paid, “certified,” or otherwise accorded special status based on such a designation.
I coincidentally just stumbled upon an old book that’s been laying around in boxes of such, entitled Tardive Dyskinesia (“Task Force Report 18”), published in 1979 by the APA. If I find anything remarkable before this thread is kaput I’ll report back.
It was an offhand comment (the Trump reference) so I’m fine with it being removed if it diverts the focus from my main comment (about immigrants dodging a bullet), which was supporting and expanding upon the previous comment by Jeff C.
Well, the case against psychiatry has been made for ages now, the question is what are we going to DO about it, i.e. how do we eliminate psychiatry, and avoid falling into reformist traps or appeals to “save” psychiatry (which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we need to do).
Abolitionist survivors and other potential activists who wish to take this conversation further should email us at [email protected] for more info.
Good to see you being so prolific recently Phil. 🙂
Ca-ching!
The “peer” concept is the most insidious development ever devised to mislead survivors (and future survivors) into seeing themselves as damaged goods, while pretending to empower them. I advise people to run whenever they see it used, whether by an mh professional or by a self-described “peer.” We are humans, not “peers” and certainly not “consumers” of anything but propaganda.
Why accept their authority to define the labels you wear with pride?
In this case it’s THEIR label you’re wearing with “pride,” so it sounds more like “I’m going to bed because I want to, not because you told me to!” Or people demanding their “right” to ingest neurotoxins specifically designed to control them.
I don’t theorize about “bipolar” btw, I discount the possibility of such a purported “disease” existing, by definition.
Which wends me back to a curiosity I alluded to previously, which I will post in its entirety (hope you appreciate the segue) (spoiler alert/promo — yes the is the letter to Szasz from Timothy Leary):
July 17, 1961
Dr. Thomas S. Szasz
c/o Upstate Medical School
Irving Avenue
Syracuse 10, New York
Dear Dr. Szasz:
Your book arrived several days ago. I’ve spent eight hours on it and realize the task (and joy) of reading it has just begun.
The Myth of Mental Illness is the most important book in the history of psychiatry.
I know it is rash and premature to make this earlier judgment. I reserve the right later to revise and perhaps suggest it is the most important book published in the twentieth century.
It is great in so many ways–scholarship, clinical insight, political savvy, common sense, historical sweep, human concern– and most of all for its compassionate, shattering honesty.
I have already contacted several of my colleagues and intend that everyone I meet will be exposed to your work. I am in charge of the first year graduate training at this Center and while I don’t believe in “required” reading I shall certainly “suggest” with enthusiasm that this book be read and re-read.
Your text states most eloquently, convincingly, systematically what a group of us here have been attempting to communicate. I have in the past published extensively on diagnosis and have come to understand the rituals and rules of that game. In the last two years we have been attempting to apply the “game” conception to behavior change (“treatment” or “rehabilitation”). We have developed a philosophy, many rules and a new language for _real-education_–i.e., helping people understand their games, planning new games, working out explicitly the rules, rituals, goals, roles of the games they select.
I wonder if there is any chance that you could pay us a visit. I’ll be in Cambridge until July 25th.–and after August 23rd. If you are in New England this month I hope we can expect a visit. I should also like to invite you to come to Harvard on a consultant-lecturer basis for a couple of days in October. A day of consulting plus a department-wide lecture. Travel expenses and a consultant fee will be available if you could arrange this trip.
I’ll write again in more detail about your book but in the meantime please accept my admiration and gratitude for what you have done for your profession and your times.
[signed]
Timothy Leary
(Note — Pretty sure but not totally sure Leary hadn’t experienced LSD yet, though his mention of “game theory” seems to presage some of his later psychedelic-era writing.
Looks like the immigrants dodged one bullet anyway. They deserve that much at the very least.
Is this another reason we’re supposed to hate Trump, for denying people psychiatrists?
FYI a major movement demand is to end all state support for psychiatry. Even if Democrats and liberals think that’s “unrealistic.”
The really hilarious part is when they give people $9,000 a year then say they have “money management problems.”
The amount of welfare and disability funds dispensed from the capitalist coffers is roughly gauged based on what it takes for most people to sit back and take it, rather than rise against the system itself.
It’s even harder when that society insults and blames you for the harm they caused and tell you to go get more brain damage to fix it.
Do you have an analysis of why this happens and in whose interest it may be?
Except it’s not a “comparison”; psychiatry was literally responsible for developing the methodology and setting up the infrastructure for “euthanizing” psychiatric inmates, which was later used on the Jews. And after the Nazi defeat psychiatrists were discovered still “euthanizing” psychiatric inmates.
Identifying as disabled when one is not disabled is self-deprecating. Doesn’t make any difference if you shout or whisper. And “mental health” isn’t real in any reality, unless we redefine the meaning of language AND reality.
Please let me know if you’d be interested in creating a presentation (panel discussion, maybe?) for Rethinking Psychiatry.
STILL “rethinking” psychiatry after all these years? Didn’t you hear? — the thinking has been completed. The conclusion: psychiatry is a fraudulent branch of medicine which must be abolished.
Again, where’s everybody marching?
I thought it was Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. 🙂
Prostitution is as good a term as any, I’d say. Or maybe “human work.”
Nope, you’re not getting it. The very process of reclassifying human beings as “peers” is alienated, and alienating. That some so-called “peer” systems are “kinder and gentler” than others is secondary, just like some corporations being less noxious than others doesn’t justify the corporate dictatorship as a whole.
I doesn’t take “training” to visit a psychiatric inmate as a comrade.. The idea of being “certified” in consciousness and compassion ignores that we are in essence dealing with crimes against humanity, and professional “peers” serve the purpose of putting a human face on an inhuman system. Anyone who cares can be that drop of light in the darkness of captivity, there’s no need for it to be a “specialty.”
The purpose of psychiatry is to enforce conformity to system values, and to relate to it in any other way is to unwittingly collude in its mystification of human suffering, and its persecution of those who don’t fit in the box. And if you truly considers psychiatry to be a tool of repression, to look to it for approval lends far more credibility to it than it does to you.
BTW I don’t know any “mad folks,” only people who have romanticized and internalized their labels.
If you need to speculate as to what it means it’s clearly not a very useful term.
“MH disabilities” aren’t real because “MH” isn’t real.
The other doozy is “person with lived experience.” Doesn’t this describe everyone who wasn’t born in a coma?
How about when you are told that your trauma is a cause for celebration and “pride”?
Seriously though, if something can be done to prevent “mental health” occurring among our youth no expense should be spared in doing so.
Glad you’re in touch with Lauren. And it’s good we’re all sort of stumbling into one another here, because we need to coordinate our goals, tactics and activities to the extent possible. The “new” group I’m referencing is actually over 3 years old by now, and includes a growing cross-section of survivors who START with an abolitionist perspective, and with other shared understandings about psychiatry which constitute our “self-evident truths” (concurrence with which is required as a condition of membership). We have been creating the organizational and ideological infrastructure for a successful anti-psychiatry effort based on a consistent and “scientific” analysis and strategy, not on unexamined assumptions and wishful thinking.
I don’t remember whether the original NAPA was an exclusively survivor organization (actually the term “survivor” didn’t come into play till later; “inmate” was the prevailing term, as more of the psych population then was physically locked up ). But it looks like information sharing is something we have in common; we hope to soon have a functioning AP website which will serve as a hub for AP discussions, organizing, education, strategizing, etc. and will be for all people, not just survivors. Wanting to have our site up is the main thing holding us back from officially announcing ourselves in an MIA article, and elsewhere (assuming our request to do so is accommodated by MIA when the time comes).
There are plenty of ways to communicate without, as Stallman says, “being used by” Facebook. I only brought this up because you mentioned your NAPA page. But FB aside there may still be a useful function for the NAPA name — one thought is that “NAPA” might eventually encompass the entire anti-psychiatry movement, with the “survivor vanguard” (us) using another name. There are all sorts of possibilities.
I mentioned elsewhere that I love what you’ve done with the Phoenix Rising archives — no spin, “interpretation” or solicitations — and the PR “alumni” we’re in touch with give you high praise. I’m wondering if you would have the capacity to do the same thing for MNN if they provided you with the raw material. Then people could go there, link it to their sites, etc. without having to worry about what sort of “baggage” might come along with it. Wondering what the general response to this might be. (I mentioned this to Jenny too.)
P.S. I should have added that on the same site the author provides a strategy for maintaining a Facebook “presence” without exposing users to as much risk; this essentially involves posting only very basic info on FB and directing people to your website for direct interaction. Check out https://stallman.org/facebook-presence.html
I have no use for “models” or “alternatives,” they are all based on the assumption that psychiatry serves a legitimate purpose, or that it tries to and fails. The real purpose of psychiatry is to police our thoughts and suppress our aspirations in the service of corporate profit. The solution to people’s personal misery lies in the defeat of capitalism and the alienation it engenders and requires, not in trying to change people’s attitudes towards their oppression, no matter what the “model.” Psychiatry is a weapon of capitalism and, just like ICE, a tool of law enforcement and containment. Why would we want an “alternative” once we’ve ridden ourselves of it?
Even more than the drugs, the destructiveness of psychiatry lies in its mystification of people’s pain, convincing them that their unhappiness with life is a problem within themselves to shamefully hide from others and “work on,” rather than arising from a collective problem requiring a political solution. So the energy which should be directed against the oppressive system is instead channeled into self-negating beliefs and behaviors.
Is that any better?
Nothing here is exactly brain surgery.
There are no “schizophrenia symptoms.” Schizophrenia is whatever someone says it is.
Oh I see this is an OLD article by now. I must have been gone longer than I thought.
Truly horrible.
Do people feel guilty about saying “anti-war” or “anti-racist”? So what’s the difference with “anti-psychiatry”?
Thank you, as always, Philip. Hey, maybe we should renamed our “movement” the Truth about Psychiatry movement, instead of the anti-psychiatry movement?
Ouch, I’m surprised at this from an AP veteran of sorts.. I’m having second thoughts about Phil indulging the idea of AP being harmful, it brings out everyone’s latent guilt about opposing oppression, which is what the system wants.
Anyway “the answer” is that learning the truth about psychiatry LEADS TO wanting to abolish it. Which means joining the anti-psychiatry movement. Simply “knowing the truth” is pretty useless unless you put what you know into action. Or as Frederick Douglas said (more or less) “Power cedes nothing without a demand.”
Sami Timimi prefers the later term because he isn’t opposed to the existence of his profession, even if he thinks it has greatly gone astray
And conclusions such as this are what makes my blood boil to see Tamimi assigned to “explain” what anti-psychiatry activists can explain much better.
There is no reason for psychiatry to exist if it is built on fraudulent principles, which it demonstrably is and always has been. This is known as logic. So MIA pays someone who profits from the existence of psychiatry to explain why it shouldn’t be abolished.
And no one is supposed to be so unkind as to see self interest, just “expert judgement.”
The fact that the Pies’es and Liebermans are so freaked out by the term “anti-psychiatry” demonstrates that it is the PERFECT term.
Karin — don’t drink the Kool-Aid. The ONLY thing psychiatry is “tasked with” in reality is social control. Everything else is tactical, and window dressing. Psychiatry already knows what it really is, it’s the people who need to learn.
Just saw this, I’m licking my lips — there has been a surge of anti-psychiatry “chatter” over the past week or so, largely inspired at MIA by the Madness Network News article and related controversies, and I’ve been preoccupied.
I may have finally detected a flaw in Phil’s approach — he has an uncompromising faith in the power of reason and its influence on the proselytizers of psychiatric ideology.
On the other hand he may be looking forward to a distant day when the collective understanding of the populace reaches the point where there are no illusions to hide behind, and the psychiatric empire’s clothes become the stuff of mockery.
Can’t wait to read the article.
Censorship is not the main problem with FACEBOOK, although of course they do that too, and will be doing it more & more in the immediate future. What is unconscionable is encouraging survivors (in particular) to unthinkingly turn over their personal information to what is primarily a tracking, surveillance, and profiling site, and which will give provide said info to date banks, government agencies and god knows who else. This is not conspiracy theory, it is easily documented; again an authoritative site explaining all this can be found here: https://stallman.org/facebook.html (I don’t see why this is even controversial; it certainly represents far more than my personal opinion.)
I would hate to see MNN “canceled” from the web, as I think the most important consideration is that our true history be accessible to all, especially AP activists. But I also consider it vital to correct any misinformation such as Jenny has mentioned, and to remain vigilant in the face of any other opportunistic attempts to appropriate MNN to promote any private agenda unrelated to fighting psychiatry. I also urge people to NOT “sign up” with or send any sort of personal information to ANYONE who is using the imprimatur of MNN to solicit it.
In fact if Jim could give MNN the same treatment he gave Phoenix Rising, with no attempts at “spin,” it would be a great service.
I’m still hoping MIA will find someone to do a memorial piece for George. Any ideas anyone?
How can something have “organizing potential” knowing the personal information of all your members and associates, not to mention your conversations, are being delivered on a silver platter to your — and more importantly their — enemies? This strikes me as irresponsible and self-destructive, especially now that FB/Google/Twitter have taken a quantum leap into totalitarianism. Please check the link to Richard Stallman for more essential info.
That aside, I or someone will be in touch soon, I believe we have your email.
So I’m awake again and still don’t really know what you’re asking, it’s pretty abstract.
You mention the “Alternatives” conference, which I never had the misfortune to attend, though I’ve heard more than I need to. Fortunately, I believe these events no longer take place. However, “concerns” is an understatement; these were system sponsored events designed to appropriate our language and our issues and lead us down the road of reformism. And they succeeded. Although MIA is not an anti-psychiatry site per se, conversations which have been taking place here have done much to resurrect anti-psychiatry/anti-reformist consciousness and help us begin to regain our direction. However there is much further to go. We need to cleanse our thinking of “medical model” concepts, and beyond that of the idea that the individual is where “recovery” efforts should be focused, rather than the system which is the source of the alienation at the heart of emotional trauma.
Can you be more specific?
I’ll come back to this because I’m about to crash and I want to make sure I understand what you’re asking.
For now, my inner smart alec wants to reply to your initial question with a Clintonian-sounding “it depends on what ‘it’ is.”
I suggest you check out http://www.survivingantidepressants.org
the impact of the “isms” (e.g., colonialism, racism, capitalism, sexism, ableism) must be viewed as interlocking with health
Sounds radical on the surface, but treating capitalism as just another “ism” (like “ableism”) actually plays into the hands of the corporate neoliberal ruling class, which cannot afford to recognize that in the present era racism and sexism are intrinsic aspects of capitalism/imperialism, and that they cannot be solved simply by attitude changes; they require revolution. Capitalism is the “mother of all isms.” As long as the system needs a permanent underclass to sustain itself racism and sexism will prosper, no matter how brilliant the insights into microaggression.
Why in the fucking world would you urge people to go to FACEBOOK? That’s TOTALLY CRAZY. FB is a tracking, surveillance and profiling site. It is irresponsible to send vulnerable survivors to FB to have their personal information sucked up and stored; if anything MIA should be urging people to LEAVE FB and assisting them in doing so.
It be may be moot soon anyway, as FB starts banning anything that offends the people who call us “pill shamers.”
Again, mandatory reading, from a member of the Internet Hall of Fame: http://stallman.org/facebook.html
Thanks Jim.
You should be aware that there is an active survivor-led anti-psychiatry organization with a consistently growing membership which has been functioning for several years now. Some but not all our members are well known MIA “veterans” (in some cases expatriates). And we are appreciative of your work.
At the appropriate time – likely very soon — we will be contacting you, and although our organization is run exclusively by survivors who wish to “make psychiatry history,” we are open to working with all truly anti-psychiatry allies, and forming coalitions around specific issues. We haven’t officially “launched,” which will happen as soon as our website — exclusively dedicated to ending psychiatry — is finished. However many of the people reading this are aware of our existence and our basic principles and demands. (Our email is posted earlier in this thread.) Hopefully we can work together in the future in some form.
This is the first I’d heard of your relationship with Leonard, which is noteworthy. I do urge you to abandon FACEBOOK, it is primarily a tracking, surveillance and profiling site, and I consider it highly problematic to be urging survivors to go there. Additionally — if it isn’t already — FB will soon get around to banning anti-psychiatry content as “false information.” (I always recommend this site for details, written by a member of the Internet Hall of Fame : http://stallman.org/facebook.html )
Meanwhile some sad news for many people who may be reading this: As I don’t have the ability to post this as a news item, I just want to pass along that longtime AP movement activist George Ebert — co-founder of the Mental Patients Alliance of Central New York — has just died. While I do not have the capacity to write a proper memorial, hopefully MIA will find a way to get this done, even though I don’t believe George spent much time on MIA.
Getting out of the treatment trap in 5 steps:
1) Make sure shrink’s office door is unlocked;
2) Turn doorknob and open door;
3) Using legs and feet (one after the other) proceed OUT the door to the street;
4) If you are hooked on psych drugs find an expert to help you detox;
5) Join the anti-psychiatry movement.
Or, at least, the benzos and opioids should only be given to older, “chronic” patients.
WHAT? Sounds like ageism, am I missing something? Plus we already have COVID to kill off the old people and useless eaters.
Encouraging participation in “mental health” activities is mystifying and misleading. “Content” is secondary.
It’s largely semantics, as the “war on drugs” has always been in fact a war on Black and poor youth (enthusiastically championed by Biden AND Nixon prior to Biden becoming “woke”).
In any event, let’s finish off the phony war on street drugs and amp up the one on psychiatric neurotoxins. (I’m wondering, if we could morph this term to “psychotoxins” would it enter the street vernacular and thus be more a subject of mass contemplation?)
Karin — Great article, can’t find much at all to disagree with, which is unusual as people here know. I see you are already involved in your own projects — if you would be interested in working in conjunction with other survivors who are trying to deconstruct the psychiatric narrative and “make psychiatry history,” such a forum exists and we’d love to hear from you, and share our basic analyses, principles and goals. You (& anyone) can email us at [email protected]
BTW people at MIA don’t get much of a chance to discuss COVID, lockdowns & vaccinations from a critical perspective, so don’t be surprised if the comments section is flooded by COVID-related responses.
Yep, SURPRISE! — we are are entering an unprecedented era of totalitarianism and newspeak, certain to reaffirm that old saying that just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you.
Wow, I really appreciate this snowy; it heartens me to know that the essence of my argumentation does get through to some people sometimes, as I often get crickets on MIA after I post something I think is particularly insightful, only to learn months later from an email that it helped someone make a major connection. So I know not to draw conclusions based on the immediate response. But you’re one of those who “gets it” regarding the intricacies of the revisionism, albeit unrecognized, which still permeates much of our “anti-psychiatry” thinking and remains a big factor in holding back the movement to defund and abolish psychiatry.
And you’re right, is it exhausting, thanks for getting that too. But supportive communications such as yours are just as energizing.
I don’t want to divert the focus here from Jenny however, who was a tireless AP activist “back in the day,” not just a journalist, and was personally involved in many of the actions and events she describes above. I’m certain she also appreciates your effusive thanks.
Madness Network News should be considered our historical record, along with Phoenix Rising from Canada.
The “Alternatives Conference” was the product of those who disrupted and stole the movement from survivors, and will go down in infamy. It was never a part of the legitimate movement.
I & others have been attempting to educate people about movement history on MIA for years. An important part of this history is how the movement was stolen and its legacy distorted, and how the anti-psychiatry movement was replaced by the thoroughly fake “consumer movement.”
The idea of anti-psychiatry being taught in history classes is pretty out there considering that the abolition of psychiatry is considered “crazy” even among many at MIA. Why teach our “history” when the present is ignored? The movement to eradicate psychiatry is more than a “civil rights” struggle; our most essential right is the right to never be subjected to hate speech labels such as “mental illness” and “psychosis.” The primary right of a “mental patient” is to never be considered a “mental patient.”
Lost your email snowy, can you give a shout?
Wasn’t expecting this, but I’m very glad that Jenny’s article has been published on MIA; some of us are already familiar with a previous version but it needs a wider audience.
While I would disagree that there are “many” anti-psychiatry groupings at the moment, as snowyowl knows there is definitely one — which is the only survivor-run abolitionist organization with which I am familiar. I’m not talking about “peer” organizations but those whose sole goal is to end psychiatry completely or, as Auntie Psychiatry would say, to “make psychiatry history.” Those who want more info should contact us at [email protected]
There are efforts underway to put the MNN archives online, which is long overdue. However there has also been talk of “resurrecting” MNN, which I oppose. I strongly believe that the voice of the Mental Patients’ Liberation Movement should not be appropriated by current activists, as such a publication or site could easily end up watering down and misrepresenting the militant anti-psychiatry activism of that day by those who were not part of it. We should absolutely continue to create our own media. But the name Madness Network News should have a special reverence, and be preserved for the ages.
And for free at that!
Removed for moderation.
It’s a waste of time to criticize the inherent contradictions of “therapy” if the unspoken assumption is that there’s a “correct” way to assuage the inherent trauma of capitalism on an individual level — without first defeating capitalism! “Personal growth” is a form of individualism when separated from the necessity of collective struggle.
This is becoming an ever more convoluted dilemma as more and more “woke” liberals present their reformist proposals as “revolutionary” and “socialist” when they are nothing of the sort.
“Schizophrenia” is a myth. I fail to see how “autism” is any different. And yes, psychiatric labels are basically hate speech.
Cancer is part of the healing process and is a function of the immune system.
WHO is assuming that “autism” is neurologically rooted? If that were the consensus “it” would be seem to be a pathology; otherwise, like the apppendix, “it” would have no functional role in a “modern” human.
What are the current “advantages” of such a condition?
“Intersectionality” is a way of avoiding the need to eliminate capitalism, which is the “mother of all oppression.” Racism and sexism are the driving dynamics at the heart of capitalist culture; they don’t just happen to “intersect.”
No energy to get into a long academic discussion, but this would be as good a place to start as any:
https://www.marxist.com/marxism-vs-intersectionality.htm
Dittos & kudos to KS FWIW. A courageous statement not designed to garner mass approval.
Some would contend there can be a literal state of “neurodiversity” that bridges (or fuses) the physical (neurology) and the abstract (psychology). As such, as long as there is a physical component this is an argument for “biopsychiatry,” though I also sense that this would be denied. In fact such a fusion is impossible in a 3 dimensional world.
At best it is euphemistic to refer to purported differences in brain structure as “diversity”; should cancers be referred to as examples of “cellular diversity”? (That sounds progressive.) Or am I missing something key?
Why do you think I even care? Anyway you’re speaking in generalities. I think many people are way too preoccupied with themselves, personal feelings and their “identities.” If you have a plan for revolution and collective control of the planet that’s more the kind of thing I consider worth discussing. I’m not interested in chopping at the branches.
“Neurodivergence” is the new “mental illness.” I challenge anyone to demonstrate or explain otherwise, even hypothetically.
You survive a psychiatric labeling by rejecting it, both inwardly and outwardly. There’s no middle ground.
A world without work — the ultimate “woke” millennial fantasy!
There’s probably a point here somewhere, one which was addressed ages ago by both Marshall McCluhan and Abbie Hoffman — people don’t need “jobs,” they need ROLES.
What is being addressed as “work” here is more like capitalist exploitation, which is alienated and alienating.
“Does it work” is absolutely the wrong question. It works to do exactly what it is meant to do — to keep dissidence under control. The real question is what should be the penalty for prescribing it, and whether or not the International Criminal Court should take this up.
Let’s get our analyses straight here.
If one accepts the two basic AP principles that a) Psychiatry is not a legitimate field of medicine and ) “Psychiatry is a tool of social control,” it makes no sense to speak of sending shrinks (or their surrogates) “along with” the police. Psychiatry IS the police! It’s just a question of style. And don’t forget the guy who was murdered with a ketamine injection.
DEFUND PSYCHIATRY!
PS In a life & death situation a martial arts expert who could disarm a “crazy” person would be a much better option than shrinks OR cops!
you need to take a breather to realise and truly feel that there’s more to life than Psychiatry.
Yes — there’s Anti-Psychiatry! 🙂 Hopefully before long I’ll be able to direct you to such a site.
I just realized something else — “Virtual” is basically a synonym for “fake.” Substitute “fake” and it remains just as valid a sentence in most cases.
Or it could be taken to mean “almost,” which is another way of saying “no cigar,” i.e. fake.
Wondering how you feel about the concept of “Mad Studies,” Frank…
I’ve finally come to these conclusions: If “autism” is no longer meant to denote organic brain dysfunction it should not be used at all, as it then becomes an abstraction, like “mental illness.” And that “neurodiversity” is a term which belongs under the aegis of “biopsychiatry,” ascribing one’s personality, thoughts and feelings to physical variations in brain structure.
Psychiatry is a major racial justice issue.
Good to see you, Four Lights. You ok?
Yes, this is the burning question on the minds of those imprisoned by psychiatry and tortured by neurotoxins: Has “critical psychiatry” won the debate on reductionism?
Be careful who you’re calling “mad,” please. “Mad Studies” indeed.
Which if so would make “it” a non-category, and a non-entity, like every other psychiatric “disease/disorder.”
So beyond the concerns of professional “mh” people it appears that the broader anti-psychiatry movement needs to come to some sort of informed and reasoned consensus about the term “autism” — is it a) another “mental illness” (i.e. bogus) or b) some form of minor brain dysfunction? It can’t be both, as there is no continuum between the physical and the abstract, at least not in the material world.
Putting quotation marks around “schizophrenia” is pointless if the term is nonetheless taken to refer to something which actually exists.
Whilst some might claim that the creation of the alternative categories of “neurotypical” and “neurodiverse” is a playful liberation from the pathologising medics, it still perpetuates the “us” and “them” dynamics and further solidifies the individualisation that feeds neoliberal politics.
Despite my challenges to the context of Tamimi’s current function within the MIA sphere, I recognize a noteworthy statement when I see one.
I thought I’d throw this into the mix here as well (note that they quote NAMI as “experts” and provide a suicide hotline #):
SAN JOAQUIN COUNTY, Calif. —
A student has died after a self-inflicted gunshot wound during a Zoom distance learning class Wednesday, officials said. The San Joaquin County Sheriff’s Office announced the student was an 11-year-old.
https://www.kcra.com/article/san-joaquin-county-student-shot-during-zoom-distance-learning/34851597
Meanwhile:
SAN JOAQUIN COUNTY, Calif. —
A student has died after a self-inflicted gunshot wound during a Zoom distance learning class Wednesday, officials said. The San Joaquin County Sheriff’s Office announced the student was an 11-year-old.
https://www.kcra.com/article/san-joaquin-county-student-shot-during-zoom-distance-learning/34851597
More of the same. PTMF is relevant only to the unnecessarily mystified, and to professionals. The “power threat” we need to overcome is capitalism; understanding that provides a framework for the formerly mysterious to take on new meaning.
This is CHILLING! Now we have “peer specialists” acting as cops. The Empire has no clothes. Totalitarianism and Newspeak nearing full bloom!
Totally with you on this Someone.
Are we reading the same article?
Except for the lack of humans with whom to establish comradery, or even rebel. And the mask/computer factor.
But wait — where are these home computers anyway if not on desks? And who gives the orders if not teachers (with an unpaid assist from parents)?
What’s wrong with US society is people believing the problems can be solved within the structure of US society. At any rate it’s the same propaganda regardless of the format.
But that’s not even what I’m talking about. Forcing children to watch computer screens for hours on end is child abuse in itself, no matter what the programming consists of. I’m interested in what the post-lockdown suicide rate will end up being among those under 18 (though not looking forward to the answer).
And for each one of these fortuitous instances there are probably DOZENS of parent-child relationships going through utter turmoil during key years of growth and development. It’s state-mandated child abuse, essentially.
While schools are no doubt comparable to prisons in many ways, this is a lame excuse for removing children from all social contact (which poses almost zero risk to them) and sticking them in front of a screen for the better part of a day. This used to be seen as a problem, now it’s mandatory. It’s not good for your brain or your eyes. And despite the fact that it may be better than being beat up, bullied, and taunted, there are clearly many less drastic solutions, if that’s truly the concern.
Great, who’s going to translate? Am I missing something?
Again to disagree — psychiatry’s primordial weak spot is the fact that “mental illness” not only does not exist but could not exist without changing the rules of language. Metaphors are not material, and cannot have diseases, or cures. Case closed.
Of course for many to get this might first require refresher courses in logic and language.
Yes but that’s at the individual level, and corporate profits also play a role. However at a systemic level the reason psychiatry is given so much state support — and ultimately backed up by state guns — is that it functions to keep people stuck in the conformist molds necessary for the smooth functioning of the prevailing social/political/economic order. (In the current day that would be capitalism.)
Sex and gender are not the same, just as brain and mind are not the same. One is physical and describes anatomical and reproductive characteristics; the other is abstract and refers to social prescriptions for behavior based on one’s sex.
So we are not all “consumers” of merely propaganda, some of us here actually did our homework/research.
I was referring to the term “mental health consumer” as a euphemism for “mental patient.”
I do agree, help by those who know what’s actually going on within the “mental health” industry will be infinitely more helpful, than the so called “help,” by those brainwashed by the psychiatric DSM and pharmaceutical industries.
What sort of “help”? Knowing that psychiatry sucks doesn’t mean one has the ability to do what it professes to do but doesn’t, and can’t. If the problems are systemic simply identifying them is hardly a solution.
Psychiatry existed long before the DSM, with comparatively lethal results.
FACT CHECK: CORRECT.
The brain is the seat of who we are. It is where dignity, pride, our whole being is.
WHOA. The brain is a squiggly gelatin-like blob of grey organic matter — can’t believe you would say this. To wit:
“Mental illness” is a semantically absurd concept which falsely conflates the abstraction known as the “mind” with the physical brain to mislead people into believing they have literal diseases.
There was never a “Communist Poland,” as countries can not be “communist”; “communism” describes a post-socialist classless society. Just because something calling itself the “Communist Party” is in control doesn’t make it a “communist state”; this is an oxymoron.
Anyway what happened to the critique of “neurodiversity”?
OK, cool. Wasn’t sure if you were using “socialism” as a positive (as I do) or negative (as some do).
Just a reminder, one year later. We miss you Julie.
We are heading for some serious totalitarianism, that’s for sure.
I agree also that we are heading for a pseudo-socialist government, but I think we mean that in different ways. Because I believe we NEED a socialist government, but a REAL one — not the so-called “democratic socialism” pushed by academic self-defined “radicals” (who are actually “woke” liberals, not true socialists). Republicans play into this by absurdly referring to the likes of such capitalist predators as the Clintons as “socialists.” What I see in the near future is a growing totalitarianism that is presented as “socialism” but is far from anything Marx, Lenin, Mao or Fidel ever had in mind. This in turn will need to be overthrown, in a true revolution, not a “virtual” one.
Yes, my point was that you can’t “reclaim” what was never yours to begin with.
Someone else can take this.
Well, it sounds like your priorities are in order — you’re concerned with the HOW and not the WHY vis. a vis. anti-psychiatry. And while allies “on the inside” should be valued and utilized, power cedes nothing without a demand. So, I agree in general, though there’s still that little detail of “what psychiatry actually is” to work out with more precision if we are to have a “united front.”
“Peer” implies the existence higher ups, or greater authorities. The “peer-client” relationship is inherently a power relationship, regardless of the individuals involved. Particularly if the “peer” is paid, “certified,” or otherwise accorded special status based on such a designation.
I coincidentally just stumbled upon an old book that’s been laying around in boxes of such, entitled Tardive Dyskinesia (“Task Force Report 18”), published in 1979 by the APA. If I find anything remarkable before this thread is kaput I’ll report back.
It was an offhand comment (the Trump reference) so I’m fine with it being removed if it diverts the focus from my main comment (about immigrants dodging a bullet), which was supporting and expanding upon the previous comment by Jeff C.
Well, the case against psychiatry has been made for ages now, the question is what are we going to DO about it, i.e. how do we eliminate psychiatry, and avoid falling into reformist traps or appeals to “save” psychiatry (which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we need to do).
Abolitionist survivors and other potential activists who wish to take this conversation further should email us at [email protected] for more info.
Good to see you being so prolific recently Phil. 🙂
Ca-ching!
The “peer” concept is the most insidious development ever devised to mislead survivors (and future survivors) into seeing themselves as damaged goods, while pretending to empower them. I advise people to run whenever they see it used, whether by an mh professional or by a self-described “peer.” We are humans, not “peers” and certainly not “consumers” of anything but propaganda.
Thanks, just saw this — check my additional post:
https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/11/black-psychology-professor-discusses-mental-health-stigma-faces/?unapproved=181054&moderation-hash=32ab2ede808a78fb1091ce4b4d29af27#comment-181051
[continuing after a bit]
Why accept their authority to define the labels you wear with pride?
In this case it’s THEIR label you’re wearing with “pride,” so it sounds more like “I’m going to bed because I want to, not because you told me to!” Or people demanding their “right” to ingest neurotoxins specifically designed to control them.
I don’t theorize about “bipolar” btw, I discount the possibility of such a purported “disease” existing, by definition.
Which wends me back to a curiosity I alluded to previously, which I will post in its entirety (hope you appreciate the segue) (spoiler alert/promo — yes the is the letter to Szasz from Timothy Leary):
July 17, 1961
Dr. Thomas S. Szasz
c/o Upstate Medical School
Irving Avenue
Syracuse 10, New York
Dear Dr. Szasz:
Your book arrived several days ago. I’ve spent eight hours on it and realize the task (and joy) of reading it has just begun.
The Myth of Mental Illness is the most important book in the history of psychiatry.
I know it is rash and premature to make this earlier judgment. I reserve the right later to revise and perhaps suggest it is the most important book published in the twentieth century.
It is great in so many ways–scholarship, clinical insight, political savvy, common sense, historical sweep, human concern– and most of all for its compassionate, shattering honesty.
I have already contacted several of my colleagues and intend that everyone I meet will be exposed to your work. I am in charge of the first year graduate training at this Center and while I don’t believe in “required” reading I shall certainly “suggest” with enthusiasm that this book be read and re-read.
Your text states most eloquently, convincingly, systematically what a group of us here have been attempting to communicate. I have in the past published extensively on diagnosis and have come to understand the rituals and rules of that game. In the last two years we have been attempting to apply the “game” conception to behavior change (“treatment” or “rehabilitation”). We have developed a philosophy, many rules and a new language for _real-education_–i.e., helping people understand their games, planning new games, working out explicitly the rules, rituals, goals, roles of the games they select.
I wonder if there is any chance that you could pay us a visit. I’ll be in Cambridge until July 25th.–and after August 23rd. If you are in New England this month I hope we can expect a visit. I should also like to invite you to come to Harvard on a consultant-lecturer basis for a couple of days in October. A day of consulting plus a department-wide lecture. Travel expenses and a consultant fee will be available if you could arrange this trip.
I’ll write again in more detail about your book but in the meantime please accept my admiration and gratitude for what you have done for your profession and your times.
[signed]
Timothy Leary
(Note — Pretty sure but not totally sure Leary hadn’t experienced LSD yet, though his mention of “game theory” seems to presage some of his later psychedelic-era writing.
http://www.szasz.com/leary.html
Looks like the immigrants dodged one bullet anyway. They deserve that much at the very least.
Is this another reason we’re supposed to hate Trump, for denying people psychiatrists?
FYI a major movement demand is to end all state support for psychiatry. Even if Democrats and liberals think that’s “unrealistic.”
The really hilarious part is when they give people $9,000 a year then say they have “money management problems.”
The amount of welfare and disability funds dispensed from the capitalist coffers is roughly gauged based on what it takes for most people to sit back and take it, rather than rise against the system itself.
It’s even harder when that society insults and blames you for the harm they caused and tell you to go get more brain damage to fix it.
Do you have an analysis of why this happens and in whose interest it may be?
Except it’s not a “comparison”; psychiatry was literally responsible for developing the methodology and setting up the infrastructure for “euthanizing” psychiatric inmates, which was later used on the Jews. And after the Nazi defeat psychiatrists were discovered still “euthanizing” psychiatric inmates.
Identifying as disabled when one is not disabled is self-deprecating. Doesn’t make any difference if you shout or whisper. And “mental health” isn’t real in any reality, unless we redefine the meaning of language AND reality.
Please let me know if you’d be interested in creating a presentation (panel discussion, maybe?) for Rethinking Psychiatry.
STILL “rethinking” psychiatry after all these years? Didn’t you hear? — the thinking has been completed. The conclusion: psychiatry is a fraudulent branch of medicine which must be abolished.
Again, where’s everybody marching?
I thought it was Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. 🙂
Prostitution is as good a term as any, I’d say. Or maybe “human work.”
Nope, you’re not getting it. The very process of reclassifying human beings as “peers” is alienated, and alienating. That some so-called “peer” systems are “kinder and gentler” than others is secondary, just like some corporations being less noxious than others doesn’t justify the corporate dictatorship as a whole.
I doesn’t take “training” to visit a psychiatric inmate as a comrade.. The idea of being “certified” in consciousness and compassion ignores that we are in essence dealing with crimes against humanity, and professional “peers” serve the purpose of putting a human face on an inhuman system. Anyone who cares can be that drop of light in the darkness of captivity, there’s no need for it to be a “specialty.”
The purpose of psychiatry is to enforce conformity to system values, and to relate to it in any other way is to unwittingly collude in its mystification of human suffering, and its persecution of those who don’t fit in the box. And if you truly considers psychiatry to be a tool of repression, to look to it for approval lends far more credibility to it than it does to you.
BTW I don’t know any “mad folks,” only people who have romanticized and internalized their labels.
If you need to speculate as to what it means it’s clearly not a very useful term.
“MH disabilities” aren’t real because “MH” isn’t real.
The other doozy is “person with lived experience.” Doesn’t this describe everyone who wasn’t born in a coma?
How about when you are told that your trauma is a cause for celebration and “pride”?