Sunday, April 21, 2019

Comments by Stephen Gilbert

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  • This is what Open Dialog from Finland points out; the problem is not in the supposedly “sick” individual but in the messed up relationships that everyone is entwined in where the family is concerned. Families with very unhealthy dynamics often choose one person out of the family who is designated as the “sick” one so that everyone else can escape being responsible for all the unhealthy stuff going on.

  • Julie

    I had an experience in the hospital where I worked as a chaplain that is a prime example of what you state here. One morning the nurses of the Pulmonary unit where I was assigned called me and frantically asked me to come up to the unit right away. A middle aged woman being treated for cancer was temporarily assigned to that unit because there were no beds on the oncology units. She’d just set fire to the trash in her trash can and was trying to light her mattress and bed linens with a lighter that they didn’t know she had. She’d also cursed her husband of 35 years; sailors would’ve been proud of her because of her colorful language. She told him to get the hell out of her room because she’d never seen his blankytiblank ass in her entire life. She was going wild and they thought that perhaps I could settle her down some.

    We’d gotten the lighter away from her and she did settle down, until her husband appeared in the door again and at that point she cursed him up one side and down the other. The nurses were demanding that she be moved to the psych unit and were trying to arrange the move when her oncology doctor showed up. He squelched any ideas of sending her to the psych unit and told one of the nurses to bring him a large vial of glucose! Everyone looked at him like he was the “crazy” person at that point. He bet anyone five dollars that within one minute of getting a shot of the glucose that the woman would be fine. We all looked at each other with knowing glances waiting for him to be proven wrong. In less than a minute she turned around, saw her husband across the room and asked him where he’d been all morning! Her blood sugar was screwed up! And she was saved a trip down the rabbit hole to the psych unit!

  • I believe that you’ve got the right idea. I believe that a diverse group with clear ground rules and a common goal, no matter what it’s purpose, is probably much more productive than group therapy. I believe that people profit more from getting together to rescue cats and dogs or recycling than ever happens in a therapy group. It’s good just to get together and do things rather than rehash all the terrible things going on in our lives. The rehashing gets us nowhere and we accomplish nothing.

  • One thing that I’ve always hated is the fact that people who’ve been labeled as “mentally ill” are always expected to be doing therapy in everything that they do. I’ve never been able to express this adequately but will try to explain. Why is it that if I, labeled as mentally ill am seen at the movies it’s interpreted as me doing something therapeutic. I can’t go to watch a movie simply because I am interested in what it deals with. If I garden someone wants to call what I’m doing therapy. I can’t just dig in the earth simply because I enjoy the experience of smelling the moist earth and the texture of the soil on my hands. No, I’m gardening for therapy. And if I walk my cat in the neighborhood in his harness and leash I’m doing therapy for myself. Unlabeled people, I guess what you refer to as neurotypicals, are never seen as doing therapy when they go to the movies or dig in the garden or walk their dog. They are just doing things that they enjoy. But we who’re labeled are doing it for therapeutic reasons. I am tired of this bull shit.

    I also have never been in group therapy that was ever beneficial. One of the few groups that I’ve ever found helpful was something called a process group. This is not a therapy group. I work in a state “hospital”. A number of staff from different departments in the “hospital” decided to use our lunch hour to come together and talk, to process ideas and feelings and emotions. It was extremely productive for all of us involved and helped us do better work in each of our areas. It gave us a chance to talk about the toxic atmosphere that permeates this place and how we might go about doing something about the toxicity. We talked about how the “patients” were the last people considered in any discussion. And then the gossip started about the group among the staff in general. Discussing ideas and philosophy was much too radical for the staff in general. They wondered what we were doing and what we talked about during that hour. Rather than come and find out, the group was always open to anyone in the “hospital” who desired to attend, they preferred to gossip and cause trouble for those of us who went regularly. In the end it died an untimely death.

  • Hey, no problem. I don’t really have problems with being triggered by these kinds of things. It was just amazing to me that I’d blocked this experience out so well that I’d not thought about it in ten years. I am grateful to you for stirring my memory here. That cop was one sick dude and it’s frightening that he was allowed to carry a gun and have control over people. I now wonder if he’s still on the force in that city.

  • Teachers need to stay out of the business of insisting that the disruptive students in their classes need “treatment”.

    I was once a high school teacher in the years before my enlightenment about the wonderful “mental health” system. I’d not yet gone down the rabbit hole of my own “treatment” and thought that the system was there to actually help people. One day before class one of my sophomore students approached me quietly and told me that while he was in the stall in the bathroom that he heard voices telling him things. Being a believer who’s swilled the Kool-Aid I immediately took him to the school’s sophomore counselor and turned him over to the person that I thought could help him. The boy disappeared for three weeks and then quietly appeared in my class once again. I never asked him what happened but suspect that he was sent to some psychiatric institution for a little visit and probably a little drugging with the toxic drugs. I was quite pleased with myself for doing what I thought at the time was a very good thing for that student.

    There are nights that I now lie awake wondering if I was responsible for sending that young man down his own rabbit hole of “treatment”. I sincerely hope not.

    Instead of demanding that “problem students” be put on drugs and “treatment” teachers need to spend more time with the students that have issues. A listening ear is a great help to younger people. And as a teacher you know who the students are who are experiencing issues, it’s not difficult to see and tell. And our classrooms are filled with students experiencing issues of major proportions. But most teachers are content to ignore those in need who sit in their classes and instead begin insisting that these students need drugs and “treatment”.

  • The so-called “antidepressants” do not work any better than placebo. This is proven. So they are useless and are many times dangerous, often inducing the very thing that they’re supposed to protect people from, wanting to take their own lives or the lives of others. “Treatment resistant” is just psychiatry’s response when their so-called treatment proves to be totally useless. People should stay away from benzos and “antidepressants”.

  • Thank you for speaking the truth and explaining exactly how the cow eats the cabbage. You are absolutely correct. There is absolutely no point in pouring more money into a broken system that has no intention of ever reforming itself or doing anything near constructive and helpful. CPS is great at grabbing children and sending them down the rabbit hole of psychiatric drugging so that these kids will become permanent “patients” in the broken and horrible “mental health” system. They will be placed in foster homes where all too often the abuse continues in different forms.

  • The exact same thing happened to me with the exception that they were determined to take me to the ER. This one cop got on top of me, pulled my arms back, and tightly handcuffed me. He kept his knee in my back and wouldn’t get up and finally the EMT’s told him to let up and get off me so that they could do their work. While they took me downstairs to the ambulance he stayed in my apartment going through things. He eventually came down to the ambulance before they drove me off and harassed me by telling me how he’d gone through all my private things. It was at that point that I began to wonder who truly had the issues that needed huge amounts of “medication”. The guy was totally unstable and had pulled his gun on me when they all first came in. I’d kind of blocked all that out until just now when I read your response here. All of the police were dismissive and disrespectful and all I can say is thank goodness for the EMT’s. They were actually concerned about saving my life after my suicide attempt. They were also glad to get away from the police.

  • Sadly, I expected as much to happen. The system’s narrative is so entrenched that it seems impossible to cut in two. It reminds me of a conversation that I have periodically with my supervisor about the chemical imbalance myth and how it’s still invoked, if not in name directly at least in the way that the drugs are forced on people. My supervisor states that he hasn’t heard the myth invoked in years where the two of us work. And then I remind him of how that doesn’t stop the psychiatrists from forcing people to take the neuroleptics and the so-called “antidepressants”. Even if the psychiatrists may not believe it anymore the staff are true believers and know nothing of your work or your books. And I’m not convinced that the psychiatrists don’t still believe it.

  • It’s not a name change, it’s a total destruction of psychiatry as a specialty of medicine. What is true is that the system, and its supposed “treatment” is harming people to the point of killing us. I wonder why it is that you embrace the idea so strongly that you are ill? What is so disturbing to you for you to think of yourself as a person who just has issues, which were caused probably by a multitude of things that you experienced?

  • Yes. I had a roommate who went into four, horrible days of hallucinating because his psychiatrist convinced him to take Abilify along with his “antidepressant” to make it work better. First of all, the Abilify didn’t make one damned thing work better so that was a lie on the part of the psychiatrist. And secondly, he made him hallucinate over a four day period. If I could have gotten my hands on that psychiatrist’s neck he would have been a goner!

  • And we must rise up against the medical system itself and not just psychiatry because most doctors of all the specialties are too big for their britches and feel that they can force people to do whatever it is that they want them to do, whether it’s taking a drug or having a procedure. You’re not supposed to say the word “no” these days to any doctor. It’s the entire medical establishment that we must rise up against.

  • Father John has done a nice job here of revealing the stupidity the drives, as he refers to it, “modern western psychiatry”. Thank you for this.

    I can do the same thing for people that shock does by taking a baseball bat and smacking them a couple of times in the back of their heads. Of course people sit quietly with smiles on their faces after being given a shock “treatment”, they now have a nice, big brain injury. They have a traumatic brain injury, more commonly referred to as a TBI!

  • Yes, I’ve seen a staff person in Admissions go out of their way to bother, harass, incite people who come in with the label of “BPD”. The staff person gets this look of disgust and disdain as she does this. The object of her behavior is to set the labeled person off because the staff person gets some kind of pleasure out of this. The rest of the staff put her in her place and eventually she was fired. People with this label get treated horribly before they even get to the unit they’re assigned to.

  • You never harmed anyone intentionally but how many times did you participate in harm because you’re part of the system which continually harms people all the time. I wonder how much you’re willing to look at that honestly. I know that I’m participating in harm because I work in the system. I don’t like it but don’t know what to do about it at this point. I could go work at something else but then what little I am able to give to people won’t get done. I don’t understand why you’re so prickly about this. Just because someone doesn’t automatically agree with you, you decide to quit and leave. You can’t be thin skinned here at MIA. Why did you take this so personally? If the shoe doesn’t fit let it be and move on.

  • This is very close to what I try to do with people on the units where I work. It shocks almost every one of them to no end and some even get angry with me for even mentioning something like this. “What if you were not confirmed as defective and sick but instead looked at and accepted as someone having gifts, talents, and abilities that the world truly needs?” Many don’t seem to be able to even think about those possibilities. The system has trained people so well that they’re defective that it’s frightening to them when you try to get them to look at themselves as someone that isn’t defective. Some of them wonder if I’m trying to trick them so that I can report them to the “treatment team” for being noncompliant!

  • There is one psychiatrist who did have the realization that he’d been harming people with the “treatment” he’d given them. He began calling or writing as many of his former and present “patients” as he could get in touch with so that he could apologize to them for the damage he’d inflicted. I’ve not been able to keep an eye on his progress but I suspect that he’s no longer a practicing psychiatrist.

    I have deep respect for this man because of the courage it took to do this. Too bad that there aren’t more psychiatrists like him out there in the world. And by the way, any psychiatrist out there makes more money than I do as I work in the hospital where I was once held as a “mentally ill patient”. Thanks for responding.

  • Most people with lived experience have known for a long time that the neuroleptics and the so-called “antidepressants” cause the very things that they’re supposed to be “treating”. This is not news to us by any means. I’m just surprised that more clinical people don’t know this. The information is out there and I hold everyone accountable for finding out about it if they work with the supposedly “mentally ill”. There are no excuses in my book for not knowing about this.

    I believe that many psychiatrists actually know this but to acknowledge it would mean that they’d come under the scrutiny of their psychiatry colleagues and would be ostracized. It would also then lead to a reduction of the fatness of their billfolds and pocketbooks, it would lead to their children not being able to attend the wonderful private schools, it would lead to having to drive a smaller vehicle rather than the nice, big SUV’s. Call me cynical but I believe that many who prescribe these drugs and those who force people to take them know what the drugs do and yet they continue to use them on people.

  • We never fully know the complexities of the lives of others. But I believe that kindredspirit is right. Those of us who work in the system and who truly care about those in our care must begin bucking our masters and unlocking the doors to free those who are held captive within, given “treatment” that harms rather than helps. We must begin civil disobedience against those who control the system, which are the psychiatrists. “Mental health workers are complicit in harm if they aren’t actively helping the patients escape the system.” The first rule of the battlefield is that you don’t leave your wounded behind so those of us with lived experience who work in the system must begin finding ways to make it change because it will never do so on its own.

  • Effexor is absolutely the devil’s tic tacs when it comes to trying to get off it, but it can be done. You just have to do it over a very long period of time and do it little bit by little bit. I was on huge doses of the damned stuff for about five years and then had to go off it cold turkey. I would never recommend that at all. But….I did survive it. To answer your question about what would be left if you did get off it? I get the feeling that there’s a pretty interesting individual sitting there inside of you, a person who deserves to find out what the Journey holds for you if you plant your feet in the middle of the road and decide to go find out what is out there for you.

  • I want to echo what kindredspirit says here. You are not alone. It is difficult to keep going and none of us will deny that.

    But I would also say that we can’t turn loose of our lives because then it means that the system won. We can’t allow them to win, not at any cost. I almost cried when I read the part about your departed cat. But I suggest that perhaps it’s time to get another cat, not one to take your cat’s place for they are such individuals and one of a kind when it comes to personalities. But I encourage you to create a new friendship with another wonderful cat. You deserve the support and love that another cat will give you, unconditional love that never ends.

  • I also am a person with lived experience who tries to work on the inside of the system to try to change things. I don’t think this approach works since the psychiatrists always have the upper hand and the last say about everything that goes on in the “hospital” were I was held and where I now work.

  • It’s almost impossible for peer workers to function within the traditional institutions in the system. You’re not really allowed to carry out the mandates of peer work such as furthering choice for people who are detained in these “hospitals”. You’re not allowed to promote collaboration and many times you can’t be transparent and honest. If you do so you immediately run afoul of the clinical staff. And they certainly don’t want any transformative things going on. They opt for the status quo. It doesn’t surprise me that this has happened in New York.

  • None of this is simple or easy. Parents like you are better informed than staff about all this. Staff don’t keep up with the latest about any of this stuff. I’ve found them to be badly informed. Most of them have drank the Kool-Aid and are true believers. I’ve run into a few staff who know what’s going on but they don’t say so publicly. They feel me out first to see where I stand on issues before they make any commitments one way or the other. Speaking out against the drugs as a staff person is the kiss of death. People have been fired for working with peoples’ voices to see if that might be helpful for them. The drugs are supreme and are the only treatment, period. To suggest anything else is a quick death for those saying it.

  • Thanks for helping me to see this. Yes, I am very heavy hearted for those families who struggle to do the best thing for their loved one held in the “hospital”. They immediately become suspect in the eyes of the staff and in many cases the staff work to make sure that the loved one is not sent back to the family but to an RCF or a group home to live. They claim to know better than the family about what needs to be done. I’ve even heard these families referred to as the “truly crazy ones”! It’s infuriating.

  • Thank you for responding and I truly do feel some of the pain that you have about all this. I am a former “patient” who now works among the people held on the units. You are so perceptive and Tama is blessed to have you as his mother. So many families just bow down to the psychiatrists and accept everything as the gospel truth. You actually have his best interests at heart.

    I walk among many people each and every day who are like your son Tama. I wish that I could do more for them than I accomplish.

  • I thought that was what you were asking but just wanted to check. I apologize for sounding so testy these days.

    Yes, the cards are certainly stacked against the public. Trials for new drugs that don’t work and that often cause harm are ignored when they show the true results as being negative. It only takes two positive trials or studies to get a drug approved even though it might have ten negative trials or studies. So, the drug companies really do cherry pick very carefully and then they bury the negative trials as deep in their vaults as they can. The FDA is not protecting the American public and instead protects the interests of the drug companies.

  • Although I agree with you that the quickest way to get away from the buggers is to tell them what they want to hear, this is often very difficult for people who are locked on the units to do. I don’t know whether this is out of sheer stubbornness and wanting to be proven correct about their situation or what. I’ve come to believe that for many people it’s a matter of integrity and trying to hang on to their true self and personhood against the onslaught of aggression on the part of the psychiatrists and staff. To bring themselves to say that they are “ill” and the psychiatrists are “right” is just too much to even imagine. I’ve not found a way to help people who are mired up to their necks in this crap. I’ve tried telling them what you counsel but they refuse to hear any of it and often won’t speak with me for days or weeks after such a suggestion on my part.

  • Because he promised to get the diagnosis attached to children if the drug company would pay him a million dollars. Which drug company was it? Johnson and Johnson comes to mind but that might not be the correct one. Johnson and Johnson is responsible for so many crimes against humanity that it’s the first one that pops into my mind these days no matter what it is.

  • I’ve also run into this deafness in psychiatrists. I have come to the conclusion that they know that what they’re doing is causing harm but they don’t want to upset the lucrative apple cart that they’re pushing along in front of them. If they admit that there are huge problems with what they’re doing to people, especially kids, they’d have to find another source of income for themselves. I understand that this is difficult to look at but they have ethical and moral obligations to stop doing what they’re doing. They’re the ones who want to be known as real doctors. Even though the Hippocratic oath doesn’t contain the line, “First do no harm”, it doesn’t mean that it isn’t good medicine to practice it anyway.

  • Even if they let your son go free at some point, they most likely will make sure that he doesn’t return to your care because they know that you won’t support him continuing on the toxic drugs. They will send him to an RCF or a group “home” where they can continue to control him. I’ve sat in morning reports where such things are discussed about the “patients” on the unit. During one such meeting the staff were going on and on about how one “patient’s” mother always took him off the drugs when he came back to live with here. At one point a nurse asked who the truly “crazy” person was in a very self-righteous tone of voice. At that point I spoke up and pointed out that not everyone believed in the paradigm of “care” that is promoted. It was totally silent in the room and then the psychiatrist spoke up and affirmed me statement.

  • dj

    My injection of fentanyl was given in the hospital after surgery and it almost killed me. It depressed my oxygen level in my blood and started lowering my blood pressure at an alarming rate. A young nurse caught what was happening and called the doctor on call for the hospital. He asked me if I knew what had been given to me and when I said no he said it was fentanyl and that I should never ever take it again as long as I lived. All the nurse told me who originally gave the shot to me was that it was a painkiller.

  • Ok oldhead, it was Kennedy who gave the speech at the APA meeting that suddenly no longer exists. Bruce points out the article that Jay Joseph wrote about the debate concerning the killing of the feeble minded that appeared in 1942. I still can’t find my copy but this article presents everything that needs to be known.

    By the way, I don’t have internet at this point.

    I just did some research on google and what it said is that the article pretty much gives Kennedy’s opinions about the topic that he expressed at the meeting in 1941. Of course, when you google Kennedy’s keynote address what you find is that it can’t be found! So, the article that Bruce points out is all that we will have.

  • This new “treatment” is only going to bring more people into the system. I suspect that many women using this “treatment” will end up experiencing psychosis and wham bam thank you mam will be on their way to the psych “hospital” with all kinds of wonderful diagnoses to deal with. Frankly, this is disgusting. As I’ve stated elsewhere, hopefully many women will be spared this because the price is so high that not many will be able to afford it.

  • Thank you for this information. It just proves that this is going to be another disaster for “patients”. And isn’t it interesting that a drug that supposedly helps with “depression” can actually cause suicidal problems for the women taking it?!!

    I so hope that women stop and think very hard before they fall into this trap. I wonder if it will end up causing problems so that women end up being diagnosed as schizophrenic or bi-polar. If it does the psychiatrists will say that it “unmasked their underlying illness”.

  • My experience was similar. I dealt with five psychiatrists while dealing with my issues. Only one was truly a doctor in any sense of the word. He not only listened to me he actually asked me what I wanted and needed and when I told him he did exactly as I stated. He was young and not totally jaded yet. But he was helpful and I don’t really see him as a psychiatrist at all.

    The other four were fools of one sort or another. And as you stated, you can get them to eat out of your hand if you stroke their egos and tell them what they want to hear and are listening for. Two were actually emotionally and psychologically abusive. One of them actually told me that I was stupid for being overwhelmed by the murder of my sister and year to the day of my mother’s burial. I came very close to planting my fist directly between his eyes and I tried to get him fired from the community mental health center where he was employed. They actually did fire him a few months later. The second jerk was screaming at me and shouting so badly that saliva was flying from his mouth. He needed a ten and two and seclusion and restraint!

  • I think that I got it but haven’t had time to sit down and go through it. Will do so this evening or tomorrow. Busy with treatments and setting up two new recovery programs where I work, which require that I work more hours. Anyway, I went through my desk yesterday and didn’t run across the copy of the address that you referred to. Am beginning to think that APA has magic powers that made every copy disappear when they took it off their site. Still have a few more things to go through because this is bugging me now and I really want to find it. But I have massive amounts of articles and studies in my desk drawers.

  • To answer your question….no, med students are not taught to think critically. We have med students rotating through where I work all the time and they are about the most clueless people I’ve ever met. Many of them are not bad people but they’ve swallowed the bait…..hook, line, and sinker when it comes to psychiatric stuff. They couldn’t sniff their way out of a brown paper bag when it comes to smelling out corruption. Medical schools need a huge overhaul and most of them end up turning out arrogant twits rather than real critical thinking and empathic people.

    I lived in a neighborhood where I was the only non med student resident and I could tell you some stories about how so many of them feel that they’re entitled and special, so special that they can’t even respond back to you when you wish them good morning on the street. I got tired of them very quickly and was very glad that none of them lived in my apartment building.

  • Yes, I saw on the news last night where a psychiatrists was promoting a new drug for post-partum depression in new mothers. They’ve got to get their hands in everything. And she was even promoting “antidepressants” along with the new “treatment”. Of course, perhaps a lot of women will be saved from this trap because the cost is so horrendous that none but the most wealthy will be able to pay for it. The psychiatrists was saying that they hope that insurance will pay for it. Also, you must spend 60 hr. in treatment. Who can afford that kind of time in a hospital at the rates that they charge.

    Also, last week there was a psychiatrist promoting the new esketamine nose spray for depression. They’re bombarding us from all sides with their new “treatments” for our supposed problems.

  • But all this business playing around with genes and genetic causes is a blind alley and has been for decades. This is never going to be a viable answer to the difficulties caused by what people call depression. Depression, as Rachel observed above, is not an illness but an indication that points to the fact that something is not quite right in your life, that there’s something that needs to be changed by you. This is not something caused by genetics and genes and all this mumbo-jumbo. And I do have a problem with anyone wanting to call me “mentally ill”. They can do so but it had better be behind my back.

    At least I’m glad that MIA didn’t retract anything that they said about this dubious study.

  • And how many of these young people are on any kind of psychiatric drug?????? The drugs used for the various things that kids supposedly have like ADHD and depression can cause the very things that they’re supposed to be taking care of.

    And on top of that I don’t think that we’re raising our children with realistic expectations about life, we’re not giving them the tools that they need to move through life in ways useful to themselves. For instance, kids in any kind of competition whether it’s sports or anything else all get trophies these days because “everyone is a winner.” This doesn’t teach a realistic outlook on life and doesn’t teach kids how to deal with adversity and not always being the winner. Look at how Millennials are turning out these days; they can’t seem to deal with anything that they don’t like or which doesn’t benefit them in some way.

    And life has become a lot more difficult these days with a lot of things to be sad about.

  • I wonder if the people doing the study looked at the work and studies done by a psychological anthropologist by the name of Tanya Luhrman. She points out that hearing voices is looked upon in different ways in different cultures and it’s only in the West that hearing voices is looked at in such a negative light. She’s studied hearing voices in Africa, India, and the United States. She’s also written books about evangelicals who say that God talks to them and this raises interesting questions to think about. No one seems to pathologize them due to their claim of hearing God. I think the title of one of them is When God Talks Back.

    Where I work I’m not allowed to ask people anything about their voices because to do so would supposedly show that there is something more to them than just being symptoms of their “illness”. The psychiatrists and staff approach voice hearing as being totally devoid of any positive value at all and we’re not to encourage people to think that there is anything useful or positive about them. I do not agree with this approach to hearing voices, at all. I believe that if you can work with a person’s voices you may just be able to help them deal with their issues. But of course, this would go against the paradigm of “care” that predominates everything. And this is why we have a revolving door where I work so that people keep coming back and coming back, over and over again. So much for the good “care” huh?

  • You point out some valid points. The certification required of anyone wanting to be a peer worker in the state where I live is so oriented towards lots of paperwork and hours worked under a supervisor (who aren’t people with lived experience) and educational hours galore that it’s ridiculous. A social worker that I know looked at all the requirements and said that the peer certification required more than what social workers were required to submit for their certification. And then in the end they stick you with a nice hefty fee to pay for your certification.

    One of the sole reasons that any certification was created at all was so that any work done by a peer could be billed for Medicare funds. And billing for Medicare funds demands that you must chart and write notes. This goes against all peer standards since if you get to write about people you have power over them. If you can enter notes in their charts you have power over them. Peers are supposed to form mutual relationships with people so that both parties can learn from one another. If you have the power of the pen you are above those you’re writing about and there is no mutual relationship. Of course, the relationship is not totally mutual because one has keys and a badge that the people being “treated” don’t have. You get to go home at the end of your shift, the people on the units are held against their wills.

  • You are absolutely right about how important eating good foods is to the ongoing health of people labeled as “mentally ill”. The problem is that when people are discharged from the “hospital” to RCF’s, the food is usually horrible and people spend what little money they have left after paying their monthly bill to the RCF on junk foods. They drink lots of caffeinated coffee and smoke lots of cigarettes. Very few “hospitals” have groups that teach good nutrition and since so many people have been in the system since they were teenagers they have no idea how to spend their little amount of money wisely on good food if they are allowed to have their own place.

    Seven hundred dollars a month is not enough money to live on in the first place so we have lots of people sent out of the “hospitals” either to RCF’s or to small apartments in bad areas and they don’t know how to provide for themselves or cook nutritious meals.

  • And the minute that I got out of the homeless shelter that I’d been discharged to (where I was forced to take the benzos and “antidepressants” because I was discharged with them and the policy of the shelter was that you’d take your drugs no matter what) I took those damned things and threw them in the trash in my new apartment. I’ve never touched a psych drug of any kind since and I don’t plan to do so. But I do understand what they do to people, the harm that they cause.

  • So well put. If you don’t write you really should start. You have such a way of going to the heart of the matter with such an interesting touch and a way with words.

    “That researchers ever seriously thought they could pinpoint a gene to finger as the culprit of human distress while the world literally burns around us was hubris on a grand scale.”

    This is so well put. I’m going to post this on my office door with due credit to you, of course.

  • The only thing that I was forced to take while in the “hospital” were the devil’s tic tacs known as antidepressants and benzos. I’ve never been forced to take anything else but as I stated above I was lucky in that I had an advocate in the “hospital” where I now work and this person guided my treatment through my psychiatrist because he admired and respected this person very much. No ethical boundaries were broken but the psychiatrist consulted this person and asked for advice since he didn’t know what to do with me because I was so damned contrary and non-compliant. I’d known this person for 25 years before I ended up in the very “hospital” where the person worked. The person who was consulted thought that I’d died a few years before because we lost touch and I disappeared off the grid for a while. It was all by chance but I’m lucky that the psychiatrist was a wiser man than most psychiatrists I’ve met or have to deal with at work. He consulted and took the person’s advice about how to deal with me, which was to let me find my way back to a balanced life at my own pace and doing what I needed to do for myself. This is not usual practice. I created art every day and painted my way back to health and well-being and they eventually released me.

    This is not the typical experience of the people I now deal with on the units. I was a very atypical “patient” in every way and am very lucky that things fell into place the way that they did. Very few are that lucky.

  • Yes, I was hospitalized but not forced to take the neuroleptics. I was very lucky in that I had an advocate within the hospital who my psychiatrist admired and respected.

    Also, I’ve experienced psychosis for a period of only two days. I was held in the ICU in a medical hospital for four days. On the fourth day there I had a conversation with my spirit guide. It happened when I was on the edge of sleep and my unconscious was beginning to surface and take over my thoughts. I am a follower of Robert Johnson’s active imagination work as well as Jung’s spiritual guide ideas. Don’t laugh, but my spirit guide is a miniature, lime green Triceratops dinosaur. Long story but understandable if you follow Johnson’s and Jung’s work. For part of one early evening my spirit guide sat on my bed and we held a long conversation. I think that the nursing staff must have thought that I was delirious. I don’t remember one thing that we talked about but I am sure that it was important and useful. The next day I was sent to a regular room, where I was caught talking with my spirit guide by a nurse passing in the hall. She came in and asked who I was talking to and I told her she must have been mistaken since she could see that there was no one in my room but me. That was a close all. But that was the only time I’ve ever hallucinated in my entire life. I was lucky because if they’d pursued the “talking” incident I’d probably have been on my way to a good dose of neuroleptics when I arrived at the psych facility. Luckily they missed all of that.

    During my wonderful stay in the psych “hospitals” I was always lucid and rational and in what they love to refer to as “consensus reality”. This was why I was able to advocate for myself against the staff.

    However, not taking the neuroleptics doesn’t keep me from understanding how damaging they are to people in every way possible. My office window looks out into the cement courtyard shared by two units of the “hospital” where I work. I watch people come into Admissions being full of life (and often saying things that staff find offensive) and then I watch them deteriorate over the months that they are held there. I watch it on a daily basis. It is heart rending and heart breaking and what little power I do wield is not enough to stop it from happening, at least not for now.

    I work from the first rule of the battlefield, which is that you never leave your wounded behind. As far as I’m concerned everyone that I work with and for are people that I must work to carry off this battlefield, even if it’s only one person at a time every once in a while.

  • Ok. Finally a post where you and I can agree on a lot of things. I agree that a lot of people choose to end their lives, not because they are “mentally ill” but because of what is going on in their lives. Just because I tried to kill myself doesn’t mean that my attempts had one, blessed thing to do with being “ill”. It had everything to do with the fact that I was overwhelmed, isolated, and that I was in the very depths of grieving for the deaths of my mother and my sister within the period of one year. And the stupid psychiatrists dismissed my grieving as being totally unimportant! They were absolutely no help to me at all. I had to find balance and well-being and health on my own and through the care and concern of very good friends.

  • Yea!!!!!!!….I can hardly wait for all the people that will be brought to the “hospital” where I work and they will be labeled as schizophrenic because they will be psychotic on this junk. Who would allow a drug to be used on them that was derived from a large animal tranquilizer? Who in their right mind would allow themselves to be dosed with this junk? The studies prove that this is junk science and snake oil medicine but I bet that Jansen will make tons of profit off of it all and people will be flocking to their doctors to get a prescription for it. What is wrong with this picture?

  • I base my statement on studies done on animals, in which the drugs cause shrinkage. But of course those studies don’t deal with the human brain.

    There are studies of the effects of the drugs on the human brain done by the Godmother and Grand Dame of biobiobio psychiatry. Her name is Nancy Andreasen. She wanted to refute the claim that the drugs shrink peoples’ brains so she carried out a study to prove that there were no such effects by the drugs.

    What she found was that brain size was affected. She didn’t believe the results and thought she must have made a mistake in the study. So….she repeated the study a second time and got the same result. According to her she was so disturbed by her findings so she sat on the results for two years but then finally published them. On the internet you can find an interview that she did where she describes what she did and her response to the results. It’s interesting that at the end she states that people should continue taking the drugs despite her findings.

    I’m glad that you don’t feel any of the effects and you’re doing great work despite everything that you experienced. I’m just putting this out there for people to look at and investigate if they so desire.

  • “I believe people sometimes never recover. People given the right help do and can.”

    You are correct that some people, for reasons that no one understand, can’t seem to achieve recovery. This was seen in the old days before the advent of the neuroleptics. Over 60% of people experiencing what the system likes to call schizophrenia had one or two episodes where they were “hospitalized” and then they went on with their lives, never to be seen by the mental health system ever again. About 35% never were able to achieve this.

    My problem with your statement is that I have the feeling that you’re going to say that the “right help” is the drugs. You seem so very determined not to see anything outside of your acceptable view of all this, which is your right. But you don’t seem to even want to entertain the thought that there might be other things out there besides the drugs which might help people get their lives back. No matter what people post you just restate, in one form or another, your adamant response that the drugs are the answer.

  • Yes, we need treatment, but not the kind that you’re advocating. At least people should be given a choice about whether or not they’re going to ingest poisons for a supposed “illness” labeled as “mental illness”.

  • I hope that you realize that medicine is the third largest killer of Americans at this time. With medicine people also die. And I hope that you realize that the neuroleptics cause the human brain to shrink, they affect the frontal lobes of the brain (which makes us who we are as thinking and unique beings), they cause heart problems and weight gain and any number of other health problems. Young veterans of the Iraq/Afghanistan campaigns are dying in their sleep because of the psych drugs they’ve been put on. I have the feeling that you trust doctors and “medicines” more than they should be trusted.

    Drug companies are controlling the masses to the tune of billions of dollars in profit from their sale of psychiatric drugs alone. And the price of these drugs is ridiculously high. What’s wrong with that picture when these expensive drugs are supposed to be paid for and taken by some of the poorest people in our society?

    And could you please explain what you mean when you refer to the “walking wounded”?

  • I can’t answer your question. It’s one that I keep mulling over and over in my mind. Either these guys are totally clueless and don’t keep up with their education, or they are really terrible people who’re are hurting people and destroying their lives for their own gain and benefit. I watch them on a daily basis and they seem to be ok people, but they keep forcing people to take these harmful drugs. I don’t know.

  • What the psychiatrists are doing when they expose people to shock is literally causing a seizure to happen. Seizures are detrimental to the human brain. This is why every other medical specialty strives to keep people from having seizures. These are not treatments. You can get the same effect by hitting someone in the head with a baseball bat and inducing a traumatic brain injury. Older women are the prime targets for shock, especially those who are grieving about the death of a husband or other loved one. It is not treatment.

    I’ve encountered five psychiatrists. Out of the five two were outright abusive, one was totally ineffective as a healer, one was very patronizing, and one was truly helpful. The truly helpful listened to me rather than drugging me and turning me into a zombie. Those who shock people like to act like they know what’s going on but they don’t have a clue. And they get paid very well for what they’re doing to people.

  • A few years ago I attended a meeting where I work. It was devoted to singing the praises of shock. I refuse to call it ECT since it’s not a treatment at all but a barbaric torture. Anyway, at the end of the talk when people could ask questions I posed this very one. Why is it that all other medical specialties try to keep people from having seizures while psychiatry induces them in the name of treatment. The young psychiatrist smugly looked at me, smiled, and then said, “But the seizures that we induce are different from regular seizures!” I looked at him with my mouth open since I couldn’t believe that someone would blatantly lie in front of an entire crowd of people. He claimed that no harm is done when you send electricity through a person’s brain!

    At that point I began stating some criticisms of shock and the entire room broke out in shouts and yelling against me. One psychiatrist was so angry that he was actually spitting saliva when he talked. One person even yelled out, “Does that guy work here?”, since we were at the “hospital” where I work. It was unbelievable to say the least.

  • But I also think that many of the people being exploited by the cancer industry believe that death must be averted at all costs so that they can go on existing indefinitely. There is a great fear of death, it’s probably the biggest fear that most people have. They can’t imagine not existing, even though they know that it’s unrealistic to expect to do so. There was a famous book written about this in the 70’s, the name of which I cannot recall at the moment. Ah…I got it….The Denial of Death. So the cancer industry knows this and plays up to peoples’ fears. And people go along with it. It’s a very complicated thing where both parties play at the game. As a Buddhist I struggle with this very thing at the moment. Just how far do you go to believe what they tell you about what they want to do to you? Where do you draw the line and say no more.

    This is not to deny that the cancer industry is everything that you expressed about it.

  • I agree.

    It’s interesting that doctors in general are seen as being well-educated and aware and up to date. I don’t think that a lot of them keep up with what’s going on. Perhaps this is because they accept too many patients so that they can make lots of money and people end up being herded through their offices like cattle. Many of my doctors and surgeons get put out with me because I ask questions about what they want to do to me and act as if I’m the one in the wrong. Their attitude is that you’re just supposed to comply with their wishes and you’re not supposed to raise a fuss of any kind. They’re not necessarily kind to people who do strive to take care of their own selves.

    Doctors don’t deserve the pedestal that society gives them and they’re not necessarily smart just because they’re doctors.