Either the editors at MiA are completely naive or there is really some weird agenda behind MiA’s editorial decisions, that I haven’t figured out yet. Anyway, it’s time to move the debate why MiA is promoting all these dubious bloggers and organizations to another more public place. I think it will be quite interesting to figure out if there are connections between MiA, CCHR, Scientology, MFI and ISEPP and how deep they run. And I don’t care how much that will hurt MiA. You had enough time to clean up the mess on your website, but it seems you’re proud of that cultish, pseudo-scientific content. Good luck with that.
There are no reliable sources for that claim. Huffpost wrote: the mother wasn’t planning on committing him to a facility.
I don’t think that there is big interest in directly forcing people to take SSRI or other psychiatric drugs in these cases. The health professionals will convince enough people to take the tablets voluntarily, especially if you need to see them regularly. I also can imagine that at some point the health professional must report if the patients refuses treatment.
This are the official recommendations, but I don’t know how this translates into practice.
That will work out fabulously. Pushing people into SSRI dependance will increase the recovery rates tremendously [sarcasm]. (The article doesn’t say anything about anti-depressants, but I don’t see any resources for alternative treatment).
We can do better than that. Here at Silly Pharmaceuticals we are developing a mental health vending machine. You can put a blood or saliva sample in it and let it access wirelessly your facebook account, your browsing stats and smartphone health app data. It searches for biomarkers and behavioural signs for mental disorders and returns a diagnoses. You can also get the appropriate medication to improve your mental health from the vending machine. First tests show that the diagnose is not less reliable than the diagnose done by a mental health professional.
If you think it is silly, you’re right, but we will make a fortune out of it anyway.
I already told you were I am standing, but you seem not to be interested in getting a more accurate picture.
So it all boils down to:
People who are opposed to Scientology’s CCHR are APA/Big Pharma trolls?
People who are opposed to the Church of Psychiatry are Scientology trolls?
at least these are the accusations from both sides.
I wonder if the antipsychiatry movement is doomed. Maybe I’m getting my first paranoid psychotic episode, but CCHR seems to be involved everywhere (in the US (okay, not really everywhere (but much too often))). It’s no wonder people don’t take us seriously and think we are this weirdo group who drank the kool-aid.
It’s time to emancipate from CCHR.
I know, my comment will be moderated down or there comes another attack. Whatever.
But to be clear: PSYCHIATRY KILLS.
It also grows the market for diabetes drugs, creates more neuroleptic-addicts and people who will be diagnosed as bipolar / schizo* due to neuroleptic-induced supersensitivity psychosis.
“… As a result the CNS line is drying up and drug repurposing ends up an important and valuable research approach to able to develop new drugs in a cost-effective manner.”
First I thought at least they are honest what they are doing. Unfortunately they pull out some “scientific” explanation out of the hat:
“Olanzapine, among its other effects, has affinity for dopaminergic receptors in the brain, acting primarily to block the brain chemical, dopamine. The core disturbances in anorexia nervosa include disturbances in reward (anhedonia), activity (compulsive/excessive exercising), regulating intense negative feelings (affective regulation), and the interpretation of bodily sensations (enteroceptive awareness). All of these functions are known to be mediated by dopamine.” (Kaplan 2013)
Instead of being honest about Olanzapine, which “causes hypoglycemia, diabetes, and hormonal imbalance, the last of which, in turn, leads to pathological weight gain—likewise well documented”
If it really were only about dopamine, why would you choose the neuroleptic with the worst metabolic side effects? I think it’s quite obvious that they intentionally chose the neuroleptic which induces weight gain / metabolic syndrome / diabetes most effectively.
That sounds that like the state Israel is officially speaking of “permissible genocide”, when this quote is from an independent blog post on Times of Israel and was quickly removed.
cannotsay2013, I have to disappoint you. I’m not on the dark side of psychiatry. If you don’t believe me, challenge me. Tell me a psychiatric lie and I do my best do debunk it.
I’m not exactly sure what psychiatric drugs / treatments are approved by the FDA for children, but I guess there are a lot of off-label prescriptions. This is just plain wrong.
If psychotropic drugs were not harmful for the development of the brain, we could also legalize marijuana, alcohol and nicotine for kids.
“Pasting anti psychiatry as Scientology is a bit ignorant.”
It is.
And the shorter life expectancy of 25 years is not the comparison to people who live perfectly healthy, but to people who have an average (often unhealthy) life style (including “normal” people who smoke).
Maybe it would help to _not_ block dopamine receptors with neuroleptic drugs? Nicotine increases dopamine levels. Maybe smoking reduces the bad psychological effects of neuroleptics a little bit.
It’s quite some time ago that I watched the talk, but I remember it as very interesting.
Please enlighten me!
What is so scandalous about Loren Mosher?
May I continue my “Scientology smear” campaign? ;-P
“Study yuenmethod.com”
“Leave behind the pseudo science.”
Who needs science anyway? Go complete bollocks …
I’m sorry, but Bachmann is her own caricature. I didn’t know that Bachmann is demonized by European media. I thought Fox news is more likely to have very simplistic views of the world.
I watched the coverage of the presidential election campaign in 2008. Towards the end you could see the disbelieve in the faces of reporters how someone like Palin could have been chosen to run for vice president. She should run again with Michele Bachmann 😉
these diagnoses are as questionable as depression, bipolar or schizo* is. all can have do with psychological and environmental factors, with nutrition, inflammation and the gut microbiome.
Fibromyalgia is a good example:
“Its exact cause is unknown but is believed to involve psychological, genetic, neurobiological and environmental factors.”
“Fibromyalgia is frequently associated with psychiatric conditions such as depression and anxiety and stress-related disorders such as posttraumatic stress disorder”
“Health Canada and the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) have approved pregabalin and duloxetine, for the management of fibromyalgia. The FDA also approves milnacipran,” (SNRIs and anticonvulsants).
Another one:
“Irritable bowel syndrome (IBS, or spastic colon) is a symptom-based diagnosis”
“Although there is no cure for IBS, there are treatments that attempt to relieve symptoms, including dietary adjustments, medication and psychological interventions.”
Good point! We should compile a list of movies and series that show a realistic view of the “mentally ill” and their struggle with psychiatry.
When we watch Fox news in Europe, we don’t wonder anymore why US citizens need so many drugs… There is a high probability that prolonged Fox news consumptions drives you insane.
“Personally, I believe a move away from using DSM diagnoses is essential for any big changes to happen”
But what is left of psychiatry then?
“People are dying today because they listened to their psychiatrist.”
We have to make this message louder. I didn’t know that it could happen, until my friend died. Cardiac arrest at the age of 30, after 10 years on neuroleptics, which made her life worse. The autopsy confirmed, that her death was caused by the neuroleptics.
In my definition (and country) Scientology doesn’t qualify as a religion.
I never mentioned any religion, I will not defend them and I don’t see a point in comparing them.
«I must say that this article contains so many distortions and misrepresentations on the Tea Party and the positions of American conservatives like yours truly that the fact that it was published “as is” reflects poorly on the editors of Mad In America.»
what a great rational debate.
«Also I have to rush to dispel the notion that Fox News promotes coercive psychiatry.»
»Zombie science is a science that is dead,
but is artificially kept moving by a continual infusion of funding.
From a distance Zombie science looks like the real thing, the sur-
face features of a science are in place – white coats, laboratories,
computer programming, Ph.D’s, papers, conferences, prizes, etc.
But the Zombie is not interested in the pursuit of truth – its actions
are externally-controlled and directed at non-scientific goals, and
inside the Zombie everything is rotten.«
Psychiatry is so rotten, that there is no way to transform it to something good. This doesn’t mean that every person who is labelled as a psychiatrists does conform to the ideology of psychiatry.
It don’t care if you are a Scientologist or not. The thing is, if someone is doing all the moves you would expect from a Scientologist (or someone who does the Scientology talk), a rational debate is not possible by definition. They will defend Scientology by all means. There is no way, that I can reply to all the smoke bombs you are throwing into the debate.
Let the “disgruntled” former Scientology members speak for themselves.
You don’t have to believe them as you don’t have to believe the “mentally ill” psychiatric survivors.
If it talks like a Scientologist,…
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
Why is this news on MiA, just because their psychiatrists?
Maybe you should start reading about the Human Brain Project and the BRAIN Initiative to answer your questions. Btw, it’s about studying the brain, not the mind.
«Basic research (also called pure research or fundamental research) is a systematic study directed toward greater knowledge or understanding of the fundamental aspects of phenomena. Basic research is executed without thought of a practical end goal, without specific applications or products in mind. It includes all branches of science and engineering.
Basic research has been described as arising out of curiosity.»
And I’m bored again.
The violence, abuse and coercion within Scientology is pretty well documented and this is something which is at the core and facilitated by the leader David Miscavige.
I find that people who completely ignore the violence, abuse and coercion within Scientology and the aggression towards their critics are not credible when it comes to fighting the violence, abuse and coercion of the psychiatric system.
I have a hard time to understand why people and organizations voluntarily associate themselves with Scientology. One explanation would be, that they in fact supporting the goals of Scientology, the other, that they are less intellectual giants and more self-opinionated bigots.
Scientology’s main goal is to destroy psychiatry and the psychs to sell their own unscientific and potential harmful Scientology “mental health” services to as many people as possible and make people dependent on their cult-like organization. This is not something I support.
“Your continuous reference to the “Scientology smear” is getting old and tired. Just more proof of how successful the APA and big pharma have been in their campaign to link all criticism to psychiatry with Scientology.”
I’m equally bored by your repetitions. I just linked to the part where Szasz talks about Scientology (in the same video you mentioned). I don’t see references to “Scientology smear”, APA or big pharama there.
“The long-term effects of abusing atypical antipsychotics remain unknown, […], the off-label use may be extremely risky, especially when combined with other substances.”
Isn’t it ironic…
There are benzos for short-term usage. I haven’t tried a neuroleptic, but I think I would always prefer a benzo.
What I wanted to say: There are reasons that Szasz is not so popular and I think it’s mainly his own fault.
I saw Szasz lecture (the youtube link) some time ago and after that had never the intention to read anything from Szasz. I couldn’t stand the guy’s attitudes (even if he makes some good points about so called mental illness).
Mark Raggins post starts with the assumption, that AOT will be implemented anyway and we (you, I’m not in the US) should focus on recommendations how it should be implemented to be less harmful.
“Like it or not, packaged as Assisted Outpatient Treatment (AOT), involuntary outpatient treatment is increasingly coming to a neighborhood near you. Los Angeles County is nearly ready to begin implementing AOT under Laura’s Law. The time for contentious advocacy aimed at stopping AOT has ended and the time for collaborative advocacy aimed at implementing AOT as well as possible is upon us. Whenever a major new initiative like this is launched, even in its pilot stages, there is the likelihood of more unintended consequences than intended consequences. Here are a series of important considerations for implementing AOT and some concrete recommendations for a collaborative advocacy agenda.”
I disagree with Mark, that we should focus on a better AOT implementation only, but in demanding “checks and balances” it might get clearer what problems with these laws are and hopefully let the politicians think about it, if they really want to implement it with all the possible consequences.
I think Donna’s impression of Mark’s blog is an important one, because it’s very likely that these laws are always much more harmful than intended and nearly impossible to implement them right.
For example in my country there are very high requirements for involuntary commitment (in theory), but often they are just ignored or twisted (like not taking medication is a danger for the person in itself).
So I think it could be helpful to fight these bills on both fronts or trying to minimize the potential harm. I’m not sure what the best strategy from an antipsychiatry perspective is.
ROTFL
Very good!
http://www.microscopegallery.com/?page_id=13788 :
Mad Meds incorporates new works in photography, video, and sculpture situated within an ideal environment – such as a gold-leafed bed, fluffy photo pillows, blankets and rugs, exercise and meditation equipment – created by Kotak to facilitate her attempt to gradually reduce her medical dosage to zero. With Mad Meds Kotak suggests an alternative approach to dealing with “madness”, one in contrast to her own traumatic experience as a inpatient of a hospital psych ward, and reflects on the possibility of a med-free existence.
Centerpieces are two evolving and opposing sculptural works “All The Meds I Didn’t Take”, a Fabergé egg housing the Klonopin, Wellbutrin and Abilify she discards during the withdrawal and “All the Meds I Took”, an ornate gold medicine cabinet filled with the empty containers of the medicines Kotak still consumes during the weaning process.
The exhibition also includes the new video works: “Dis(abilify)”, made from appropriated YouTube advertisements for Abilify, the atypical antipsychotic and the nation’s number one overall selling pharmaceutical drug, and the multi-channel “Mad Ms. Video Project”, featuring stories, solicited and collected by Kotak, of women in the US who have had experiences diagnosed as mental illness.
Again, opposing psychiatry doesn’t make one automatically an ally. I’m very sceptical about his Control/Choice/Reality Theory. Is their any reason I should believe it could work and it’s not harmful?
Just because some people have the time to spent a couple of hours a day reading and writing comments on MiA, doesn’t mean every blog author always has the time (or nerves) to do it.
Of course it’s always good when authors can join the discussion, but I don’t think it’s essential.
“In my view, I’ve not attacked anyone”
That’s your view, I have my view. Maybe we should just stop writing comments to / about each other. It’s not productive, we are wasting our time.
ANY agreement with Scientology/CCHR marketing tactics should be avoided like the plague, IMHO. 😉
I’m not sure I have read the word Scientology in APA / psychiatry / pharma articles, I only remember that I read the term antipsychiatry in several recent articles.
Btw, I didn’t know that Scientology and Big Pharma (especially Eli Lilly) had this big fight in the 90s.
Of course nobody, the idea that anyone of us is an agent provocateur is absurd.
Jonah, what’s going on? You’re constantly attacking people from the community. Often you don’t address them directly, but talk about them in the third person. This is not at all respectful.
Jonah, in this logic, your also an agent provocateur. You are discrediting the group of people in the antipsychiatry movement who have different views than Scientology/CCHR.
It seems that you can only tolerate people who don’t disagree with the views of CCHR.
I think it is highly problematic to state that “tbe holocaust might not have taken place without psychiatry” [1]
CCHR and Peter Breggin suggest that psychiatry is responsible for Holocaust and they kind of used Hitler and the Nazi Party (NSDAP). Of course they played a big part in killing people, but it’s an oversimplification and distortion of history to state that the Holocaust could only happen because of psychiatry.
This PDF describes how the killing was organized within the totalitarian system in Nazi Germany:
When Scientology/CCHR is writing about totalitarian Nazi Germany there is a conflict of interest, because the Church of Scientology has a totalitarian structure, too.
I think I will stop to discuss anything with you, too.
cannotsay2013,
because Scientology has a fascist-like mindset?
cutting: empowering strategy. user is in full control. stigmatized.
ECT: disempowering. used to control. not stigmatized.
I went to the William Glasser Institute website and I find the “The Ten Axioms of Choice Theory” quite boring and not very helpful. It reminded me a little bit of Dianetics and it seems I’m not the only one:
I’m using recent browsers. It seems to be a problem with siminar, their external javascripts are not loading properly. Somehow I’ve managed to watch the video after I successfully signed up with one browser and copying then the URL to another browser.
“There are others here with much more expertise in alternatives than I. But, I guess my point is we need to end psychiatry’s monopolistic control of the “mental health” industry.”
Good point. We need a system we’re people are free to choose between different approaches. This means no forced treatment and a system where alternative services can coexist. What would happen if people could choose between “psychiatric diagnose, take your drugs” and open dialogue.
Scientology/CCHR is a pain in the ass and a huge problem for the antipsychiatry movement in the US (not so much in Europe). Why is abuse and violence by psychiatry bad, but abuse and violence by Scientology irrelevant?
On the subject of Scientology’s status as a religion, the German government has pointed to a 1995 decision by the Federal Labor Court of Germany.[13] That court, noting Hubbard’s instruction that Scientologists should “make money, make more money – make other people produce so as to make more money”, came to the conclusion that “Scientology purports to be a ‘church’ merely as a cover to pursue its economic interests”.[13] In the same decision, the court also found that Scientology uses “inhuman and totalitarian practices”.[13] Given the lessons of Germany’s 20th-century history, in which the country came to be dominated by a fascist movement that started from similarly small beginnings, Germany is very wary of any ideological movement that might appear to be seeking a position of absolute power.[13][14][15] References in Scientology writings to the elimination of “parasites” and “antisocial” people who stand in the way of progress towards Scientology’s utopian world “without insanity, without criminals and without war” evoke uncomfortable parallels with Nazism, and have led to Scientology being classified as an “extremist political movement”.[17]
Yes, ECT for 14 year olds is in, but it’s an improvement (“ECT is prohibited on children under 14. Under the current Act children can have ECT at any age.”)
I never heard about Emergency ECT before. Are they nuts?
“Emergency ECT can be provided to an adult involuntary patient to save the person’s life, or in circumstances where there is an imminent risk of the patient behaving in a way that is likely to
result in serious physical injury to the patient or another person. Rather than waiting for an approval from the Tribunal, ECT can be performed with the approval of the Chief Psychiatrist.”
But fortunately it was kicked out. It is not in the Mental Health Bill 2013 draft.
Trying to expose contemporary psychiatry as Nazi medicine isn’t very helpful at all.
I don’t know very much about psychiatry in Nazi Germany, but I do know that the places in they showed on the map in the video did exist and many many people where killed there.
Today the psychiatrist are not trying to kill people deliberately in psychiatry. Of course people die because of the psychiatric medications, but this is happening for different reasons (like organized crime, driven by money).
The story of Jana sounds like fiction to me. Jana doesn’t sound like she really made that experiences with psychiatry, more like a bad actor. The medications they showed where benzos (not neuroleptics). The story Jana told doesn’t sound like it would happen in Germany in that way. The footage was complete bullshit (who are these men in black overalls?). I think their were just too lazy to interview real psychiatric survivors or get an idea how the psychiatric systems in Germany looks like.
And then they do the stunt where they talk about forced sterilization. This is total and utter rubbish. There is no legal way to sterilize a minor in Germany, even not voluntarily. Sterilization of minors is strictly forbidden without exception.
I also don’t know why they are mentioning Wilhelm Wundt. Wtf does he have to do with eugenics or the unscientific models psychiatry invented?
The Age of Fear is for me an example that Scientology/CCHR doesn’t give a shit about good journalism or truth. There only goal is to fight their enemy the psychs.
I have the impression that people with psychotic experiences who never took psychiatric drugs are much more easier to talk with, than people who have psychotic experiences after they got off neuroleptics (mostly without slow tapering).
For some people neuroleptics are hell. They feel horrible when they take them and they get horrible withdrawal effects when they don’t. And instead of getting support for tapering off and offering alternative approaches, they are always pushed back into the psychiatric system and get stripped of their rights.
Great idea!
I also think we should demand services for getting off psychiatric medication. In theory for most people it’s their decision to stay on or get off psychiatric meds, but most of the time they don’t get support.
I wonder if the lack of access to an individual tapering schedule is an issue of disability rights and equality rights.
When I click on “Start Here” or anywhere else on the page, nothing happens.
Dan, Ron & Jonathan,
I still don’t know what I should think of marijuana in relation psychosis. My gut feeling tells me, that it would help me to relax and sleep, if I ever had psychotic experiences. Then I know at least one guy who went voluntarily to the psychiatric hospital, after smoking marijuana and got psychotic. On the other hand I have the impression that some people using marijuana for managing their symptoms (like others use legal psychiatric drugs).
The best framework for me to understand the different experiences and views is the drug centred model (which Joanna Moncrieff describes). Drugs are unspecific and have different effects on different people. I know people who didn’t take Zyprexa, because it caused hallucinations.
I read that marijuana has anti-inflammatory effects and that it not only acts on neurons, but also on astroglial cells (astrocytes). So we still don’t know enough how these drugs work in detail (marijuana, neuroleptics, SSRI).
What we know is that there is a link between gut and brain (inflammation and nutrition).
Yeah, let’s talk about Scientology. I saw The Age of Fear “documentary” from CCHR yesterday. It’s really bad, more propaganda than facts.
I don’t watch anything from the PsycheTruth channel anymore, it’s stupid.
Steve: “That’s just the point, E. You are presuming “infiltration” based on association. Just because Sheila doesn’t condemn Scientology as you do doesn’t suddenly make her a “front group.””
Sorry Steve for wasting your time, but my comment you’re referring to was not about Sheila or AbleChild.
It was about the relevance of discussing Scientology/CCHR in the context of the antipsychiatry movement(s).
Scientology does infiltrate. They do go after people with “harassment, lawsuits, surveillance and dirty tricks”.
I don’t get it, why people voluntarily want to get involved with Scientology/CCHR. Maybe the same reasons why people voluntarily get involved with psychiatry?
Steve: “My point is not to attack or defend CCHR or Scientology. It is to focus on our mission. […] I don’t give a crap about Scientology or CCHR, to be frank.”
How did that work out for Rethinking Psychiatry? Did the involvement of CCHR helped you to focus on your mission? Did it help MiA that Jonathan Keys posted a blog about the conflict between RTP and the Unitarian Church? What would have happened, if CCHR/Scientology had not been involved, if RTP hadn’t screened films produced by Scientology?
Howard Glasser was also a CCHR Board member in 2008.
AbleChild is associating itself with CCHR. They chose to put links to Scientology organizations like CCHR and H.E.L.P. on their website. They decided to receive awards from CCHR and be part of CCHR. I’m just presenting that information. I don’t create this out of thin air like you speculating this is an outside attack orchestrated by Big Pharma.
To get an picture where I’m standing, these are the writers I mostly agree with:
Sera Davidow, Daniel Mackler, Tina Minkowitz, Joanna Moncrieff, Richard D. Lewis, Bonnie Burstow, Michael Cornwall, Brett Deacon, Philip Hickey, Leah Harris, Bruce Levine, Jacqui Dillon, Carina Håkansson, Lucy Johnstone, Rufus May, Olga Runciman, Lauren Spiro, Dan Fisher
“She is definitely “one of us,” and anyone who attacks her after all she’s done, I am prepared to consider an enemy of this cause.”
In Scientology speak a “suppressive person”?
Emmilie,
I disagree. Dianetics (“The Modern Science of Mental Health”) is one of the pillars of Scientology. CCHR the Scientology organization that executes their crusade against psychiatry. Scientology’s goal is to replace psychiatry with their unscientific idea of “mental health”.
If Scientology is infiltrating the antipsychiatric movement, I don’t see why it is off topic to criticize that.
scrap the last line
Here we go again, another ad-hominem attack. Exactly what is to be expected, if you start to criticize Scientology.
I’m anti-psychiatry and I have nothing to do with Big Pharma.
Believe it or not, it’s possible to be anti-psychiatry and anti-Scientology at the same time.
And I would say the same for Scientology/CCHR: it harms our course.
I think Scientology/CCHR
Was this a Scientology bill?
Do I understand you right, that you don’t care about the abusive and criminal activities Scientology is involved in? That you think there is nothing wrong in working with and supporting the CCHR and other Scientology organizations?
What do you think of Dianetics and auditing? Do you think they are harmless methods? What do you think about Scientology’s goal to replace psychiatry with Dianetics?
E. Lie Silly wonders why a crusade against Psychiatry is totally in line on MiA (within the comments), but criticizing Scientology is out of line.
E. Lie wonders why Jonah thinks the s/he wants to damage (witch hunt) Sheila Matthews.
S/he just thinks that there is plenty of evidence that AbleChild is run by people involved in CCHR/Scientology.
If MiA want to give Scientology a platform, that’s MiA’s decision, but s/he wonders what good will it do MiA.
E. Lie is neither interested in witch-hunting victims of Scientology nor interested in witch-hunting victims of psychiatry.
BTW, Scientology will be a topic for some time on MiA as they just got officially involved.
L. Ron Hubbard:
“The DEFENSE of anything is UNTENABLE. The only way to defend anything is to ATTACK, and if you ever forget that, then you will lose every battle you are ever engaged in, whether it is in terms of personal conversation, public debate, or a court of law. NEVER BE INTERESTED IN CHARGES. DO, yourself, much MORE CHARGING, and you will WIN.”
I’m not so sure that charging money for sex services is always bad. But just legalizing sex work doesn’t solve oppression by itself (as you can see in Germany). I don’t know enough about this topic to know what’s the right thing to do, but I think it’s important to not criminalize sex workers (or in general the oppressed).
There will be new laws for sex work in Canada (Bill C-36)
A news articles on their website by a Scientologist (John Mappin) who writes about a Scientologist (Sebastian Sainsbury) who talks about a Scientologist (Tom Cruise):
Sheila Matthews, Patricia Weathers (the founders), Mary Ann Block, and John Breeding are listed here (all four on AbleChild’s Board of Directors).
I see Scientology and CCHR as one and the same.
“Why should I care about this Scientology issue? That’s what I can’t figure out.”
Because you don’t know what’s going in inside Scientology? People are getting abused (and traumatized), psychologically and physically.
Scientology is against psychiatry, because they want replace it with their own system (Dianetics). Scientology wants to be as powerful as psychiatry is today.
The antipsychiatry movement and CCHR may share strategies, but they don’t have the same goal (their ideas of an psychiatry-free world is totally different).
Do they have similar aims?
The aims of CCHR looks like something we can identify with.
But: CCHR is controlled by Scientology and Scientology’s goal is to destroy psychiatry and replace it with Scientology’s Dianetics to get people into Scientology.
So if AbleChild has the same goals than the CCHR/Scientology I don’t want them to blog on MiA.
“…it is not enough to rid ourselves of psychiatry. If that is all we accomplished, psychiatry could easily be replaced by a new form of ruling that is just as powerful, that is just as all-encompassing.”
That is what Scientology with the help of CCHR has in mind, replacing psychiatry with Dianetics.
Francesca wrote:
“I’m quite serious about what I said before. It is actually disturbing to me to see psychiatric survivors being bullies.”
I think it was a general comment, Francesca didn’t say that Richard and Jonah are bullies (the way I read it). And I saw bullying happen against people who taking psychiatric drugs (because they were bullied by psychiatrist to take them).
I think it’s possible to fight for making ECT illegal (at least for forced treatment) and still respect that people choose to get ECT treatment (as long as it is a legal “medical” treatment option).
Richard, Francesca wrote “there’s an entire movement to legitimize the sex trade with a goal to keeping prostitutes safe.”
Prostitution (like drug use) will always happen. So first it has to be legal to be a prostitute to have the same rights as other workers and don’t get oppressed by law-enforcement. There are prostitutes who don’t feel oppressed and like their job. And then there are people who don’t have access to non-paid sexual encounters.
The question is not, if being a prostitute should be legal (it has to be), but if it’s illegal to pay for sex (like in Sweden, Norway, Iceland) or if prostitution should be legal and regulated.
“As I understand it, to follow Scientology is a voluntary action.”
Maybe when you join them, but they make it hard for some people to leave. It’s a cult.
Psychiatric Drugs < CBT < Non-Treatment < ???
Either the editors at MiA are completely naive or there is really some weird agenda behind MiA’s editorial decisions, that I haven’t figured out yet. Anyway, it’s time to move the debate why MiA is promoting all these dubious bloggers and organizations to another more public place. I think it will be quite interesting to figure out if there are connections between MiA, CCHR, Scientology, MFI and ISEPP and how deep they run. And I don’t care how much that will hurt MiA. You had enough time to clean up the mess on your website, but it seems you’re proud of that cultish, pseudo-scientific content. Good luck with that.
There are no reliable sources for that claim. Huffpost wrote: the mother wasn’t planning on committing him to a facility.
I don’t think that there is big interest in directly forcing people to take SSRI or other psychiatric drugs in these cases. The health professionals will convince enough people to take the tablets voluntarily, especially if you need to see them regularly. I also can imagine that at some point the health professional must report if the patients refuses treatment.
This are the official recommendations, but I don’t know how this translates into practice.
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Antidepressant-drugs/Pages/Introduction.aspx
According to the Ham-D scale a dead patient is not depressed anymore (” The score is within the normal range”). QED.
http://www.psy-world.com/online_hamd.htm
That will work out fabulously. Pushing people into SSRI dependance will increase the recovery rates tremendously [sarcasm]. (The article doesn’t say anything about anti-depressants, but I don’t see any resources for alternative treatment).
We can do better than that. Here at Silly Pharmaceuticals we are developing a mental health vending machine. You can put a blood or saliva sample in it and let it access wirelessly your facebook account, your browsing stats and smartphone health app data. It searches for biomarkers and behavioural signs for mental disorders and returns a diagnoses. You can also get the appropriate medication to improve your mental health from the vending machine. First tests show that the diagnose is not less reliable than the diagnose done by a mental health professional.
If you think it is silly, you’re right, but we will make a fortune out of it anyway.
I already told you were I am standing, but you seem not to be interested in getting a more accurate picture.
So it all boils down to:
People who are opposed to Scientology’s CCHR are APA/Big Pharma trolls?
People who are opposed to the Church of Psychiatry are Scientology trolls?
at least these are the accusations from both sides.
I wonder if the antipsychiatry movement is doomed. Maybe I’m getting my first paranoid psychotic episode, but CCHR seems to be involved everywhere (in the US (okay, not really everywhere (but much too often))). It’s no wonder people don’t take us seriously and think we are this weirdo group who drank the kool-aid.
It’s time to emancipate from CCHR.
I know, my comment will be moderated down or there comes another attack. Whatever.
But to be clear: PSYCHIATRY KILLS.
It also grows the market for diabetes drugs, creates more neuroleptic-addicts and people who will be diagnosed as bipolar / schizo* due to neuroleptic-induced supersensitivity psychosis.
“… As a result the CNS line is drying up and drug repurposing ends up an important and valuable research approach to able to develop new drugs in a cost-effective manner.”
First I thought at least they are honest what they are doing. Unfortunately they pull out some “scientific” explanation out of the hat:
“Olanzapine, among its other effects, has affinity for dopaminergic receptors in the brain, acting primarily to block the brain chemical, dopamine. The core disturbances in anorexia nervosa include disturbances in reward (anhedonia), activity (compulsive/excessive exercising), regulating intense negative feelings (affective regulation), and the interpretation of bodily sensations (enteroceptive awareness). All of these functions are known to be mediated by dopamine.” (Kaplan 2013)
Instead of being honest about Olanzapine, which “causes hypoglycemia, diabetes, and hormonal imbalance, the last of which, in turn, leads to pathological weight gain—likewise well documented”
If it really were only about dopamine, why would you choose the neuroleptic with the worst metabolic side effects? I think it’s quite obvious that they intentionally chose the neuroleptic which induces weight gain / metabolic syndrome / diabetes most effectively.
That sounds that like the state Israel is officially speaking of “permissible genocide”, when this quote is from an independent blog post on Times of Israel and was quickly removed.
http://www.salon.com/2014/08/01/genocide_is_permissible_according_to_insane_times_of_israel_op_ed/
cannotsay2013, I have to disappoint you. I’m not on the dark side of psychiatry. If you don’t believe me, challenge me. Tell me a psychiatric lie and I do my best do debunk it.
I’m not exactly sure what psychiatric drugs / treatments are approved by the FDA for children, but I guess there are a lot of off-label prescriptions. This is just plain wrong.
If psychotropic drugs were not harmful for the development of the brain, we could also legalize marijuana, alcohol and nicotine for kids.
“Pasting anti psychiatry as Scientology is a bit ignorant.”
It is.
And the shorter life expectancy of 25 years is not the comparison to people who live perfectly healthy, but to people who have an average (often unhealthy) life style (including “normal” people who smoke).
Maybe it would help to _not_ block dopamine receptors with neuroleptic drugs? Nicotine increases dopamine levels. Maybe smoking reduces the bad psychological effects of neuroleptics a little bit.
It’s quite some time ago that I watched the talk, but I remember it as very interesting.
Please enlighten me!
What is so scandalous about Loren Mosher?
May I continue my “Scientology smear” campaign? ;-P
https://web.archive.org/web/20041206185255/http://www.labelmesane.com/about.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20041215235203/http://www.labelmesane.com/links/organizations.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20041214052431/http://www.labelmesane.com/links/experts.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20041216000118/http://www.labelmesane.com/links/treatment.htm
He is also an expert on Satanic Ritual Abuse,
https://books.google.com/books?id=3PkKrgn2CrUC&pg=PP1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=166959
on multiple personality disorder and a proponent of coercive exorcism
https://books.google.com/books?id=Q5bp8Go1sosC&pg=PA132
Dr. Ross’ Eyebeam Detection Device
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf9AJCLbaWw
Comment removed for moderation.
“Study yuenmethod.com”
“Leave behind the pseudo science.”
Who needs science anyway? Go complete bollocks …
I’m sorry, but Bachmann is her own caricature. I didn’t know that Bachmann is demonized by European media. I thought Fox news is more likely to have very simplistic views of the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gecaKqvDWU
If you speak french (no subs):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdRhb6vDwZA
Great pictures
I watched the coverage of the presidential election campaign in 2008. Towards the end you could see the disbelieve in the faces of reporters how someone like Palin could have been chosen to run for vice president. She should run again with Michele Bachmann 😉
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Change_%28film%29
these diagnoses are as questionable as depression, bipolar or schizo* is. all can have do with psychological and environmental factors, with nutrition, inflammation and the gut microbiome.
Fibromyalgia is a good example:
“Its exact cause is unknown but is believed to involve psychological, genetic, neurobiological and environmental factors.”
“Fibromyalgia is frequently associated with psychiatric conditions such as depression and anxiety and stress-related disorders such as posttraumatic stress disorder”
“Health Canada and the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) have approved pregabalin and duloxetine, for the management of fibromyalgia. The FDA also approves milnacipran,” (SNRIs and anticonvulsants).
Another one:
“Irritable bowel syndrome (IBS, or spastic colon) is a symptom-based diagnosis”
“Although there is no cure for IBS, there are treatments that attempt to relieve symptoms, including dietary adjustments, medication and psychological interventions.”
Good point! We should compile a list of movies and series that show a realistic view of the “mentally ill” and their struggle with psychiatry.
When we watch Fox news in Europe, we don’t wonder anymore why US citizens need so many drugs… There is a high probability that prolonged Fox news consumptions drives you insane.
“Personally, I believe a move away from using DSM diagnoses is essential for any big changes to happen”
But what is left of psychiatry then?
“People are dying today because they listened to their psychiatrist.”
We have to make this message louder. I didn’t know that it could happen, until my friend died. Cardiac arrest at the age of 30, after 10 years on neuroleptics, which made her life worse. The autopsy confirmed, that her death was caused by the neuroleptics.
In my definition (and country) Scientology doesn’t qualify as a religion.
I never mentioned any religion, I will not defend them and I don’t see a point in comparing them.
«I must say that this article contains so many distortions and misrepresentations on the Tea Party and the positions of American conservatives like yours truly that the fact that it was published “as is” reflects poorly on the editors of Mad In America.»
what a great rational debate.
«Also I have to rush to dispel the notion that Fox News promotes coercive psychiatry.»
He didn’t write about that at all.
http://inters.org/files/Are-you-an-honest-scientist.pdf
»Zombie science is a science that is dead,
but is artificially kept moving by a continual infusion of funding.
From a distance Zombie science looks like the real thing, the sur-
face features of a science are in place – white coats, laboratories,
computer programming, Ph.D’s, papers, conferences, prizes, etc.
But the Zombie is not interested in the pursuit of truth – its actions
are externally-controlled and directed at non-scientific goals, and
inside the Zombie everything is rotten.«
Psychiatry is so rotten, that there is no way to transform it to something good. This doesn’t mean that every person who is labelled as a psychiatrists does conform to the ideology of psychiatry.
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/zombie-science-of-evidence-based.html
It don’t care if you are a Scientologist or not. The thing is, if someone is doing all the moves you would expect from a Scientologist (or someone who does the Scientology talk), a rational debate is not possible by definition. They will defend Scientology by all means. There is no way, that I can reply to all the smoke bombs you are throwing into the debate.
Let the “disgruntled” former Scientology members speak for themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKtfNf-2Zyc&list=PLCF2D1BD7CE2CE237
You don’t have to believe them as you don’t have to believe the “mentally ill” psychiatric survivors.
If it talks like a Scientologist,…
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
Why is this news on MiA, just because their psychiatrists?
Maybe you should start reading about the Human Brain Project and the BRAIN Initiative to answer your questions. Btw, it’s about studying the brain, not the mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_research :
«Basic research (also called pure research or fundamental research) is a systematic study directed toward greater knowledge or understanding of the fundamental aspects of phenomena. Basic research is executed without thought of a practical end goal, without specific applications or products in mind. It includes all branches of science and engineering.
Basic research has been described as arising out of curiosity.»
And I’m bored again.
The violence, abuse and coercion within Scientology is pretty well documented and this is something which is at the core and facilitated by the leader David Miscavige.
I find that people who completely ignore the violence, abuse and coercion within Scientology and the aggression towards their critics are not credible when it comes to fighting the violence, abuse and coercion of the psychiatric system.
I have a hard time to understand why people and organizations voluntarily associate themselves with Scientology. One explanation would be, that they in fact supporting the goals of Scientology, the other, that they are less intellectual giants and more self-opinionated bigots.
Scientology’s main goal is to destroy psychiatry and the psychs to sell their own unscientific and potential harmful Scientology “mental health” services to as many people as possible and make people dependent on their cult-like organization. This is not something I support.
“Your continuous reference to the “Scientology smear” is getting old and tired. Just more proof of how successful the APA and big pharma have been in their campaign to link all criticism to psychiatry with Scientology.”
I’m equally bored by your repetitions. I just linked to the part where Szasz talks about Scientology (in the same video you mentioned). I don’t see references to “Scientology smear”, APA or big pharama there.
“The long-term effects of abusing atypical antipsychotics remain unknown, […], the off-label use may be extremely risky, especially when combined with other substances.”
Isn’t it ironic…
There are benzos for short-term usage. I haven’t tried a neuroleptic, but I think I would always prefer a benzo.
What I wanted to say: There are reasons that Szasz is not so popular and I think it’s mainly his own fault.
I saw Szasz lecture (the youtube link) some time ago and after that had never the intention to read anything from Szasz. I couldn’t stand the guy’s attitudes (even if he makes some good points about so called mental illness).
“Children deserve to be coerced”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY78qJNLoQ0#t=22m
About Scientology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY78qJNLoQ0#t=24m15s
Mark Raggins post starts with the assumption, that AOT will be implemented anyway and we (you, I’m not in the US) should focus on recommendations how it should be implemented to be less harmful.
“Like it or not, packaged as Assisted Outpatient Treatment (AOT), involuntary outpatient treatment is increasingly coming to a neighborhood near you. Los Angeles County is nearly ready to begin implementing AOT under Laura’s Law. The time for contentious advocacy aimed at stopping AOT has ended and the time for collaborative advocacy aimed at implementing AOT as well as possible is upon us. Whenever a major new initiative like this is launched, even in its pilot stages, there is the likelihood of more unintended consequences than intended consequences. Here are a series of important considerations for implementing AOT and some concrete recommendations for a collaborative advocacy agenda.”
I disagree with Mark, that we should focus on a better AOT implementation only, but in demanding “checks and balances” it might get clearer what problems with these laws are and hopefully let the politicians think about it, if they really want to implement it with all the possible consequences.
I think Donna’s impression of Mark’s blog is an important one, because it’s very likely that these laws are always much more harmful than intended and nearly impossible to implement them right.
For example in my country there are very high requirements for involuntary commitment (in theory), but often they are just ignored or twisted (like not taking medication is a danger for the person in itself).
So I think it could be helpful to fight these bills on both fronts or trying to minimize the potential harm. I’m not sure what the best strategy from an antipsychiatry perspective is.
ROTFL
Very good!
http://www.microscopegallery.com/?page_id=13788 :
Mad Meds incorporates new works in photography, video, and sculpture situated within an ideal environment – such as a gold-leafed bed, fluffy photo pillows, blankets and rugs, exercise and meditation equipment – created by Kotak to facilitate her attempt to gradually reduce her medical dosage to zero. With Mad Meds Kotak suggests an alternative approach to dealing with “madness”, one in contrast to her own traumatic experience as a inpatient of a hospital psych ward, and reflects on the possibility of a med-free existence.
Centerpieces are two evolving and opposing sculptural works “All The Meds I Didn’t Take”, a Fabergé egg housing the Klonopin, Wellbutrin and Abilify she discards during the withdrawal and “All the Meds I Took”, an ornate gold medicine cabinet filled with the empty containers of the medicines Kotak still consumes during the weaning process.
The exhibition also includes the new video works: “Dis(abilify)”, made from appropriated YouTube advertisements for Abilify, the atypical antipsychotic and the nation’s number one overall selling pharmaceutical drug, and the multi-channel “Mad Ms. Video Project”, featuring stories, solicited and collected by Kotak, of women in the US who have had experiences diagnosed as mental illness.
Again, opposing psychiatry doesn’t make one automatically an ally. I’m very sceptical about his Control/Choice/Reality Theory. Is their any reason I should believe it could work and it’s not harmful?
Just because some people have the time to spent a couple of hours a day reading and writing comments on MiA, doesn’t mean every blog author always has the time (or nerves) to do it.
Of course it’s always good when authors can join the discussion, but I don’t think it’s essential.
“In my view, I’ve not attacked anyone”
That’s your view, I have my view. Maybe we should just stop writing comments to / about each other. It’s not productive, we are wasting our time.
ANY agreement with Scientology/CCHR marketing tactics should be avoided like the plague, IMHO. 😉
I’m not sure I have read the word Scientology in APA / psychiatry / pharma articles, I only remember that I read the term antipsychiatry in several recent articles.
Btw, I didn’t know that Scientology and Big Pharma (especially Eli Lilly) had this big fight in the 90s.
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1991-07-08/business/9101250111_1_eli-lilly-scientology-lilly-executives
http://scientologymoneyproject.com/2014/07/15/of-9-a-must-read-the-epic-1990s-blowup-between-pr-giant-hill-knowlton-the-church-of-scientology-and-prozac-drug-manufacturer-eli-lilly/
“Who is the agent provocateur, really?”
Of course nobody, the idea that anyone of us is an agent provocateur is absurd.
Jonah, what’s going on? You’re constantly attacking people from the community. Often you don’t address them directly, but talk about them in the third person. This is not at all respectful.
Jonah, in this logic, your also an agent provocateur. You are discrediting the group of people in the antipsychiatry movement who have different views than Scientology/CCHR.
It seems that you can only tolerate people who don’t disagree with the views of CCHR.
I think it is highly problematic to state that “tbe holocaust might not have taken place without psychiatry” [1]
CCHR and Peter Breggin suggest that psychiatry is responsible for Holocaust and they kind of used Hitler and the Nazi Party (NSDAP). Of course they played a big part in killing people, but it’s an oversimplification and distortion of history to state that the Holocaust could only happen because of psychiatry.
This PDF describes how the killing was organized within the totalitarian system in Nazi Germany:
http://www.waynemorinjr.com/Germany%20Psychiatry%20Murder%20of%20Mental%20Patients.pdf
When Scientology/CCHR is writing about totalitarian Nazi Germany there is a conflict of interest, because the Church of Scientology has a totalitarian structure, too.
[1] Breggin, 1993
http://www.waynemorinjr.com/Germany%20Psychiatry%20Murder%20of%20Mental%20Patients.pdf
I think I will stop to discuss anything with you, too.
cannotsay2013,
because Scientology has a fascist-like mindset?
cutting: empowering strategy. user is in full control. stigmatized.
ECT: disempowering. used to control. not stigmatized.
I went to the William Glasser Institute website and I find the “The Ten Axioms of Choice Theory” quite boring and not very helpful. It reminded me a little bit of Dianetics and it seems I’m not the only one:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000003/HTML/20110502-6-072599.html#p1
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000003/HTML/20110502-6-072599.html#p7
I’m using recent browsers. It seems to be a problem with siminar, their external javascripts are not loading properly. Somehow I’ve managed to watch the video after I successfully signed up with one browser and copying then the URL to another browser.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/07/men-would-rather-give-themselves-electric-shocks-than-sit-quietly/
“There are others here with much more expertise in alternatives than I. But, I guess my point is we need to end psychiatry’s monopolistic control of the “mental health” industry.”
Good point. We need a system we’re people are free to choose between different approaches. This means no forced treatment and a system where alternative services can coexist. What would happen if people could choose between “psychiatric diagnose, take your drugs” and open dialogue.
Scientology/CCHR is a pain in the ass and a huge problem for the antipsychiatry movement in the US (not so much in Europe). Why is abuse and violence by psychiatry bad, but abuse and violence by Scientology irrelevant?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_in_Germany#Background :
On the subject of Scientology’s status as a religion, the German government has pointed to a 1995 decision by the Federal Labor Court of Germany.[13] That court, noting Hubbard’s instruction that Scientologists should “make money, make more money – make other people produce so as to make more money”, came to the conclusion that “Scientology purports to be a ‘church’ merely as a cover to pursue its economic interests”.[13] In the same decision, the court also found that Scientology uses “inhuman and totalitarian practices”.[13] Given the lessons of Germany’s 20th-century history, in which the country came to be dominated by a fascist movement that started from similarly small beginnings, Germany is very wary of any ideological movement that might appear to be seeking a position of absolute power.[13][14][15] References in Scientology writings to the elimination of “parasites” and “antisocial” people who stand in the way of progress towards Scientology’s utopian world “without insanity, without criminals and without war” evoke uncomfortable parallels with Nazism, and have led to Scientology being classified as an “extremist political movement”.[17]
Yes, ECT for 14 year olds is in, but it’s an improvement (“ECT is prohibited on children under 14. Under the current Act children can have ECT at any age.”)
I never heard about Emergency ECT before. Are they nuts?
“Emergency ECT can be provided to an adult involuntary patient to save the person’s life, or in circumstances where there is an imminent risk of the patient behaving in a way that is likely to
result in serious physical injury to the patient or another person. Rather than waiting for an approval from the Tribunal, ECT can be performed with the approval of the Chief Psychiatrist.”
Links to the recent Mental Health Bill
http://www.mentalhealth.wa.gov.au/mentalhealth_changes/mh_legislation/mhc_bill_resources.aspx
Reading that they wanted to enable Psychiatrist to do sterilizations on children is disturbing.
http://www.mentalhealth.wa.gov.au/Libraries/pdf_docs/Discussion_Draft_for_Mental_Health_Bill_2011_v3.sflb.ashx
But fortunately it was kicked out. It is not in the Mental Health Bill 2013 draft.
Trying to expose contemporary psychiatry as Nazi medicine isn’t very helpful at all.
I don’t know very much about psychiatry in Nazi Germany, but I do know that the places in they showed on the map in the video did exist and many many people where killed there.
Today the psychiatrist are not trying to kill people deliberately in psychiatry. Of course people die because of the psychiatric medications, but this is happening for different reasons (like organized crime, driven by money).
The story of Jana sounds like fiction to me. Jana doesn’t sound like she really made that experiences with psychiatry, more like a bad actor. The medications they showed where benzos (not neuroleptics). The story Jana told doesn’t sound like it would happen in Germany in that way. The footage was complete bullshit (who are these men in black overalls?). I think their were just too lazy to interview real psychiatric survivors or get an idea how the psychiatric systems in Germany looks like.
And then they do the stunt where they talk about forced sterilization. This is total and utter rubbish. There is no legal way to sterilize a minor in Germany, even not voluntarily. Sterilization of minors is strictly forbidden without exception.
I also don’t know why they are mentioning Wilhelm Wundt. Wtf does he have to do with eugenics or the unscientific models psychiatry invented?
The Age of Fear is for me an example that Scientology/CCHR doesn’t give a shit about good journalism or truth. There only goal is to fight their enemy the psychs.
I have the impression that people with psychotic experiences who never took psychiatric drugs are much more easier to talk with, than people who have psychotic experiences after they got off neuroleptics (mostly without slow tapering).
For some people neuroleptics are hell. They feel horrible when they take them and they get horrible withdrawal effects when they don’t. And instead of getting support for tapering off and offering alternative approaches, they are always pushed back into the psychiatric system and get stripped of their rights.
Great idea!
I also think we should demand services for getting off psychiatric medication. In theory for most people it’s their decision to stay on or get off psychiatric meds, but most of the time they don’t get support.
I wonder if the lack of access to an individual tapering schedule is an issue of disability rights and equality rights.
When I click on “Start Here” or anywhere else on the page, nothing happens.
Dan, Ron & Jonathan,
I still don’t know what I should think of marijuana in relation psychosis. My gut feeling tells me, that it would help me to relax and sleep, if I ever had psychotic experiences. Then I know at least one guy who went voluntarily to the psychiatric hospital, after smoking marijuana and got psychotic. On the other hand I have the impression that some people using marijuana for managing their symptoms (like others use legal psychiatric drugs).
The best framework for me to understand the different experiences and views is the drug centred model (which Joanna Moncrieff describes). Drugs are unspecific and have different effects on different people. I know people who didn’t take Zyprexa, because it caused hallucinations.
I read that marijuana has anti-inflammatory effects and that it not only acts on neurons, but also on astroglial cells (astrocytes). So we still don’t know enough how these drugs work in detail (marijuana, neuroleptics, SSRI).
What we know is that there is a link between gut and brain (inflammation and nutrition).
Yeah, let’s talk about Scientology. I saw The Age of Fear “documentary” from CCHR yesterday. It’s really bad, more propaganda than facts.
I don’t watch anything from the PsycheTruth channel anymore, it’s stupid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SRoz6Vo8s0
(I was going to write that this is another stupid Scientology spin-off, but then people would write hateful comments again).
Someone Else: “We NEED real alternatives.”
What kind of real alternatives do you have in mind?
I find this presentation about psychiatric drugs very informative, too.
Joanna Moncrieff – The Myth of the Chemical Cure: The Politics of Psychiatric Drug Treatment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV1S5zw096U
The presentation is 50 minutes (the rest Q&A)
Steve: “That’s just the point, E. You are presuming “infiltration” based on association. Just because Sheila doesn’t condemn Scientology as you do doesn’t suddenly make her a “front group.””
Sorry Steve for wasting your time, but my comment you’re referring to was not about Sheila or AbleChild.
It was about the relevance of discussing Scientology/CCHR in the context of the antipsychiatry movement(s).
Scientology does infiltrate. They do go after people with “harassment, lawsuits, surveillance and dirty tricks”.
I don’t get it, why people voluntarily want to get involved with Scientology/CCHR. Maybe the same reasons why people voluntarily get involved with psychiatry?
Steve: “My point is not to attack or defend CCHR or Scientology. It is to focus on our mission. […] I don’t give a crap about Scientology or CCHR, to be frank.”
How did that work out for Rethinking Psychiatry? Did the involvement of CCHR helped you to focus on your mission? Did it help MiA that Jonathan Keys posted a blog about the conflict between RTP and the Unitarian Church? What would have happened, if CCHR/Scientology had not been involved, if RTP hadn’t screened films produced by Scientology?
Howard Glasser was also a CCHR Board member in 2008.
AbleChild is associating itself with CCHR. They chose to put links to Scientology organizations like CCHR and H.E.L.P. on their website. They decided to receive awards from CCHR and be part of CCHR. I’m just presenting that information. I don’t create this out of thin air like you speculating this is an outside attack orchestrated by Big Pharma.
To get an picture where I’m standing, these are the writers I mostly agree with:
Sera Davidow, Daniel Mackler, Tina Minkowitz, Joanna Moncrieff, Richard D. Lewis, Bonnie Burstow, Michael Cornwall, Brett Deacon, Philip Hickey, Leah Harris, Bruce Levine, Jacqui Dillon, Carina Håkansson, Lucy Johnstone, Rufus May, Olga Runciman, Lauren Spiro, Dan Fisher
“She is definitely “one of us,” and anyone who attacks her after all she’s done, I am prepared to consider an enemy of this cause.”
In Scientology speak a “suppressive person”?
Emmilie,
I disagree. Dianetics (“The Modern Science of Mental Health”) is one of the pillars of Scientology. CCHR the Scientology organization that executes their crusade against psychiatry. Scientology’s goal is to replace psychiatry with their unscientific idea of “mental health”.
If Scientology is infiltrating the antipsychiatric movement, I don’t see why it is off topic to criticize that.
scrap the last line
Here we go again, another ad-hominem attack. Exactly what is to be expected, if you start to criticize Scientology.
I’m anti-psychiatry and I have nothing to do with Big Pharma.
Believe it or not, it’s possible to be anti-psychiatry and anti-Scientology at the same time.
And I would say the same for Scientology/CCHR: it harms our course.
I think Scientology/CCHR
Was this a Scientology bill?
Do I understand you right, that you don’t care about the abusive and criminal activities Scientology is involved in? That you think there is nothing wrong in working with and supporting the CCHR and other Scientology organizations?
What do you think of Dianetics and auditing? Do you think they are harmless methods? What do you think about Scientology’s goal to replace psychiatry with Dianetics?
E. Lie Silly wonders why a crusade against Psychiatry is totally in line on MiA (within the comments), but criticizing Scientology is out of line.
E. Lie wonders why Jonah thinks the s/he wants to damage (witch hunt) Sheila Matthews.
S/he just thinks that there is plenty of evidence that AbleChild is run by people involved in CCHR/Scientology.
If MiA want to give Scientology a platform, that’s MiA’s decision, but s/he wonders what good will it do MiA.
E. Lie is neither interested in witch-hunting victims of Scientology nor interested in witch-hunting victims of psychiatry.
BTW, Scientology will be a topic for some time on MiA as they just got officially involved.
http://www.madinamerica.com/2014/07/response-end-rethinking-psychiatry/#comment-46235
Here we go again, that was to be expected:
http://www.madinamerica.com/2014/07/responses-rethinking-psychiatry-jason-renauds-op-ed/
L. Ron Hubbard:
“The DEFENSE of anything is UNTENABLE. The only way to defend anything is to ATTACK, and if you ever forget that, then you will lose every battle you are ever engaged in, whether it is in terms of personal conversation, public debate, or a court of law. NEVER BE INTERESTED IN CHARGES. DO, yourself, much MORE CHARGING, and you will WIN.”
http://mncriticalthinking.com/2014/06/11/scientology-osa-dirty-tricks/
http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/quill.htm
I’m not so sure that charging money for sex services is always bad. But just legalizing sex work doesn’t solve oppression by itself (as you can see in Germany). I don’t know enough about this topic to know what’s the right thing to do, but I think it’s important to not criminalize sex workers (or in general the oppressed).
There will be new laws for sex work in Canada (Bill C-36)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/sex-workers-take-to-canadas-streets-to-protest-prostitution-legislation/article19177042/
http://www.pivotlegal.org/sex_workers_rights
Anonymous and several other websites lists them as a Scientology front group, but they don’t write why they think it’s a front group.
But there is a lot of evidence that the ties between Scientology/CCHR and AbleChild are strong:
http://www.madinamerica.com/2014/07/connecticut-state-mental-health-denial/#comment-45972
http://www.madinamerica.com/2014/07/connecticut-state-mental-health-denial/#comment-46007
A news articles on their website by a Scientologist (John Mappin) who writes about a Scientologist (Sebastian Sainsbury) who talks about a Scientologist (Tom Cruise):
http://ablechild.org/2005/07/15/sainsbury-backs-tom-cruise/
The source is PRWeb, which is used by Scientology for pushing news: http://possiblyhelpfuladvice.com/?p=11566
If that is not enough evidence, guess who was (or is?) on the CCHR’s Board of Advisors:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100202082846/http://www.cchr.org/about_cchr/cchrs_board_of_advisors.html
Sheila Matthews, Patricia Weathers (the founders), Mary Ann Block, and John Breeding are listed here (all four on AbleChild’s Board of Directors).
I see Scientology and CCHR as one and the same.
“Why should I care about this Scientology issue? That’s what I can’t figure out.”
Because you don’t know what’s going in inside Scientology? People are getting abused (and traumatized), psychologically and physically.
Scientology is against psychiatry, because they want replace it with their own system (Dianetics). Scientology wants to be as powerful as psychiatry is today.
The antipsychiatry movement and CCHR may share strategies, but they don’t have the same goal (their ideas of an psychiatry-free world is totally different).
Do they have similar aims?
The aims of CCHR looks like something we can identify with.
http://www.scientology.org/how-we-help/citizens-commission-on-human-rights.html
But: CCHR is controlled by Scientology and Scientology’s goal is to destroy psychiatry and replace it with Scientology’s Dianetics to get people into Scientology.
So if AbleChild has the same goals than the CCHR/Scientology I don’t want them to blog on MiA.
“…it is not enough to rid ourselves of psychiatry. If that is all we accomplished, psychiatry could easily be replaced by a new form of ruling that is just as powerful, that is just as all-encompassing.”
That is what Scientology with the help of CCHR has in mind, replacing psychiatry with Dianetics.
Francesca wrote:
“I’m quite serious about what I said before. It is actually disturbing to me to see psychiatric survivors being bullies.”
I think it was a general comment, Francesca didn’t say that Richard and Jonah are bullies (the way I read it). And I saw bullying happen against people who taking psychiatric drugs (because they were bullied by psychiatrist to take them).
I think it’s possible to fight for making ECT illegal (at least for forced treatment) and still respect that people choose to get ECT treatment (as long as it is a legal “medical” treatment option).
Richard, Francesca wrote “there’s an entire movement to legitimize the sex trade with a goal to keeping prostitutes safe.”
Prostitution (like drug use) will always happen. So first it has to be legal to be a prostitute to have the same rights as other workers and don’t get oppressed by law-enforcement. There are prostitutes who don’t feel oppressed and like their job. And then there are people who don’t have access to non-paid sexual encounters.
The question is not, if being a prostitute should be legal (it has to be), but if it’s illegal to pay for sex (like in Sweden, Norway, Iceland) or if prostitution should be legal and regulated.
“As I understand it, to follow Scientology is a voluntary action.”
Maybe when you join them, but they make it hard for some people to leave. It’s a cult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKtfNf-2Zyc&list=PLCF2D1BD7CE2CE237&index=1
“The same should be true for the religion of Psychiatry. Their followers have to be voluntary.”
If you’re in the cult of Psychiatry, it might be hard to leave, too.
I’m not really want to get into a war with Scientology, they will destroy themselves sooner or later.
They are even more delusional than Psychiatry.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s09e12-Trapped-in-the-Closet
I will think about it. Maybe I’ll get an idea how this could be applied to Scientology to harm them effectively.