Yeah, no poster children for recovery here. Sad. It’s clear you reject everything that works for most people, and have huge anger towards that entire field, but embrace every bit of nuttery out there with no anger for the scam that most of it is. The proof should be in the pudding. If I was this evil transgressor come to force drugs down your throat and you were the people who had found recovery through other means, wouldn’t you be the calm ones, and I be the rant and raver spewing bile? What ever you think you have found that works for you…maybe you could think about what recovery looks like and if your behavior fits with that.