Sunday, August 14, 2022

Comments by BlueCassandra

Showing 7 of 7 comments.

  • I don’t really want to go into that on a public forum. The past is the past and I feel like the best thing for me is to leave it where it belongs. There were things that were said and done to me but I don’t really care about it anymore. It would mean there would just be more responsibilities put on me I didn’t ask for and more things I am guilty for if I went into that. Somehow “Its not your fault but it is your responsibility” makes me feel even worse than plain old “It’s your fault.” but it probably was though.

  • I apologize if my comments have hurt or offended anyone here. I remember a scene from The Big Bang Theory where Sheldon says to Amy (referring to the times he says things that offend people) “I don’t mean to be hurtful” and Amy says to him, “You never do, that’s the problem” I am a predator and have been since birth. After reading many different perspectives by those in the antipsychiatry, critical psychiatry, psych survivors and neurodiversity movements I realized I was not sick. But if I am not sick and still hurt people in numerous ways (being embarrassing when my family goes out, being annoying, critical, not politically correct, yelling loudly because its the only way to let out my stress without severely self harming, among other things) what is that? I have tried and tried to work out for myself where hurting people verbally/emotionally or verbal/emotional abuse begins and ends but it seems to me there is no truly objective answer. I have thought and pondered long into the night about it, solely on my own for the sake of my own self determination, attempting at working it out on my own so that I could stop feeling guilty for being an “abuser” without relying on therapists, psychs or even other people. At the end of the day, if I am hurting people and can’t stop no matter how hard I try, even with no psychs or professionals of any kind whatsoever in the picture, perhaps I should not be advocating for psych survivors until I work out how to stop being this way without doctors and their quackery. If this is not genetics and not circumstantial factors that have made me this way, maybe it is something spiritual? Perhaps I need an exorcist instead of a doctor. Me advocating for psych survivors who have often been hurt by abusers is like a tiger advocating for mice without giving up his carnivorous ways. If I want to help them and not be hypocritical like the doctors, I have to find out how not to be an abuser, and that is going to take some time. I am not the same in some ways. That is a fact I must face, whether I like it or not. I yell, I have self harmed in public, I made my gentle, quiet introverted dad hate me when I was only eight. I may not be sick or crazy, but I relate to others in a certain way and it feels to me that it is too much and I must give it up. Everyone I ask has told me I am selfish and too much for others. Not doctors, humans. Plain old friends and good natured humans from all walks of life. I have tried and thought long and hard but I cannot refute this notion. It is subjective so I must to a certain degree take their word for it. I do not want to feel this excruciating guilt my entire life. If even Sheldon Cooper is less abusive and critical than me, perhaps it is time to face some facts and change. How exactly to do that? Well, I am the doctor now. I guess I have lots of experimenting to do…I hope I will be ready to finally change soon. This guilt is tearing me apart inside. I really don’t want to, but if I don’t want to die from this guilt I simply must. I am ashamed to let it show, but this is the real me. Maybe not “mad” or “sick” but still too far. If I find a way to cure this without the shrinks, I will shout it from the rooftops. I would accept it, but where will that get me? My heart cries out to be accepted as I am, but if somebody (or lots of somebodies, or even me) cannot do that I wouldn’t hold it against them.

  • “I guess you’d have to be more specific. Unless “not compromising with norms” means stuff like playing in traffic or ritually abusing animals I think it’s your call; of course you also should be prepared to deal with potential consequences. And obviously you’re not allowed to hurt people, etc. Otherwise it’s not an anti-psychiatry position that people should “go along to get along”; if anything it would be to defend your right to do otherwise, given the aforementioned caveats.”

    I am generalisisng here, there have been many different articles I have read, and also from talking to people privately as well so it is hard to think of any specific instances of what people have said. I agree with not being violent, that has been something I actually draw the line at quite firmly. (Eating meat that has been farmed and butchered in a more humane manner, defending ones country i.e World War 1, 2 and some other instances seem to be ethical grey areas, which I will not go into here as it veers more into general ethics debates) I think that yes, while there are consequences both good and bad resulting from actions, it is more complicated (i.e. homophobia experienced while holding a partner’s hand in public, rape cases, people getting harassed while wearing religious or cultural garments such as muslim hijab or Sikh turban) I know that there is a degree of relativity here, but are you proposing that racism and homophobia should be considered as free speech and merely someone’s opinion rather than illegal hate speech? When you say harm, do you include verbal attacks or just physical violence?

    “But now you know that you’re not “mad” — i.e. that “weirdness” is normal, and part if the spectrum of human behavior and experience, as you put it. Which is spot on, and part of my “rap” as well. In that sense “madness” is a capacity we all possess, not a special consciousness accessible only (or primarily) to special people known as “mad people.””

    You are spot on in one aspect- I definitely view my differences as normal, and I am all for normalizing it, but I feel that saying it is not a difference at all doesn’t quite capture it for me. I know that this is somewhat different from other movements for social change with its unique issues, but just because being gay or trans or black is part of the human spectrum doesn’t mean that those people have abandoned their words or terminology for their specific identities. Just because being a lesbian is not an illness doesn’t mean that all people are “a little bit of a lesbian” Just because some people are Muslims doesn’t mean everybody else suddenly becomes Muslim as well. I don’t know what the equivalent for people with mental distress would be in this instance though, it is a little more complicated and I recognize that.

    “I think you are already. However there is another principle that comes after the two I mentioned at the very top of my first post, which is Psychiatry cannot be reformed and must be abolished. This has been a precept of the AP survivors/”mental patients” liberation movement since at least 1976, and goes beyond “forced treatment.” However we do call for the end of such force as our main demand, in solidarity with all others who do the same.”

    I think I agree for the most part with abolishing it as well, but I do sometimes think about the small amount of people who say that forced treatment is the only thing that helps them feel safe from committing suicide. Some also say that (voluntary) drugs or therapy helped them recover and live a much more normal life. If we abolish psychiatry, can we still help those people feel safe somehow? Will psych drugs still be available in small quantities from understanding doctors who know how to prescribe in a safer manner or will there be none at all? What about therapy? I know there is great harm done but I wonder where these (admittedly probably somewhat small) number of people who did feel it was helpful for them will go and whether they will still be able to feel at least a bit better.

    “On a political level, however, it’s important to have a correct analysis of what psychiatry is before effective strategies for defeating it can be devised. At this level there is an objectively “true” AP, in the sense of having a correct analysis and plan of action — one based on material reality and not wishful thinking.”

    I agree with having a strategy and knowing what one is trying to defeat and you are correct, there is a political vs emotional side to this, but some will say therapy is part of psychiatry so lets get rid of that, or let’s abolish forced treatment as it is now and build “safe houses” that a peer worker will talk them into going to instead of sending police. It doesn’t seem entirely clear cut to me because different people might have differing ideas on what abolishing really means and where exactly modern psychiatry begins and ends. I can understand a lot of what you’re saying but maybe I’m not quite leaning that way due to unanswered questions or wondering how to be exactly sure I know that this is the right thing to fight for. Perhaps my perspective is somewhere in between reforming and completely 100% abolishing it and it isn’t as clear cut in my own head as I thought it was.

    I appreciate you taking the time to respond here. I think that I may need to do some more reading/research and find out what is true for me. I have an email you can contact me on if you would like, [email protected] as I understand the comments section is not the best for longer discussions.


  • “ none of the AP people I work with would ever tell you to “compromise with the social norms” (or tell you to do anything really). Of course someone will always pop up to say “what if she wants to run all alone through the inner city at 3 a.m. screaming?” — but I’m not sure that trying to answer diversionary hypothetical questions should be something we spend a lot of time on.”

    I was referring to people I have met and articles and comments I have read on this site and others as well. Are those people you talk to on MIA as well? I am not saying
    ALL antipsychiatry people think that, but quite a few of them in my experience, even on MIA. I am quite antisocial in a way (another label but I need to stress the extent of this) not to the point of armed robbery or violent crime, I do not mean “just a little different” I mean “very very different to the point it causes huge issues being understood, working a job, and getting along with even very tolerant people. I have tried to change in so many ways and cannot no matter what I do. I can only accept what I am.

    “Rarely do people think of themselves as “mad people” prior to being labeled by psychiatry — then they try to compensate for that hurtful and oppressive designation by saying e.g. “I’m not schizophrenic,” I’m a MAD PERSON,” which they romanticize as something positive, signifying that they are “special” (or even superior). “

    I am not proposing to be “special” I simply consider different traits, even very different, to be a normal part of the human spectrum. Just like different cultures, sexual orientations, political views etc. I thought of myself as “mad” and “weird” as a teenager prior to seeing my first psychiatrist and also as a kid, not because I was ashamed but because it was simply the way I am. Just like if a person says they are trans or a lesbian, they are not claiming that lesbians or trans people are superior or special.

    I know that psychiatry has a major hold on society and hurts many marginalised groups. It is racist, sexist and hurts instead of helping a lot of the time. I don’t agree with its control on society and want to see forced treatment abolished or at least reduced. Is that enough to be a part of this movement? Can I be a comrade?

    Yet I cannot stand for the exclusionary rhetoric and it hurts to have to stay silent within a movement, even if it’s one I agree with on the main points. It may not be you, or the people you know (they sound like wonderful friends, hang on to them) but there are so many and I just can’t ignore it. It’s like someone leaving Christianity after becoming disillusioned with evangelicalism. Not all Christians are evangelicals but many are, and the existence of more liberal ones who call themselves the true ones (and may be right)doesn’t make the judgemental ones go away.

    I love the part about abolishing the control of psychiatry and the suffering it causes. I just can’t stay for the judgement and division.

    I used to feel better reading articles here and thought “hey there are people who want to get rid of psychiatry and it’s influence, cool!” But now I am often in tears, not because of the good parts we can all unite on, but because of the stigma around being “unrecovered” and a “narcissist” (I volunteer and help people out when they need it, I care somewhat at least) you were not the person who said those things, but some people in the movement did and if that is a non-psychiatric category of people who can’t be part of it I guess I am disqualified….

    I respect what you are saying but I don’t know if I feel comfortable calling some people the “true” anti psychiatry. Is that really for me to judge? I am just a human who can’t even fix myself lol

  • What about those who don’t want to compromise with or fit into collective reality at all? What are we supposed to do? Am I the only one who doesn’t see myself as needing to change? I’m very close to just running out into the wilderness and leaving society and people behind so I can’t annoy or hurt anyone. I just can’t pick a side. The antipsychiatry side wants me to change myself without drugs and “why don’t you just compromise with the social norms a little bit, you silly girl?”, the mainstream folks would like me to conform with drugs. It seems that with other humans I am either a bad patient or just a plain old general purpose bad person. I don’t know what to do with myself. I wanted to be an advocate and stand against forced treatment but if I am fully honest with my own beliefs and bring them all to my activism then I am only advocating for myself. I guess its just the age old problem of what to do with the rebels and the radicals. They are a problem for everyone, not just authoritarian dictators these days. Always being the “wrong kind” of everything is a significant problem with me. I would identify with mad pride but it seems that everyone who used to support it has gone away and “just grown up” Damn I wish I could just hurry up and do that too. Must be nice not to be a silly teenager like me. (I’m 22) Stigma still exists, but now its the “unrecovered” who have to bear the brunt of it, even in the antipsychiatry movement. I always get told “just don’t listen to the people who are putting you down.” Yet I respect the right of everyone to have an opinion and speak their minds, I do not view AP people as bullies or bad people, they have their opinions, I have mine, but I just wish I could find one person who feels like I do. Am I really the only one who feels like this? On second thought, perhaps I should go to one of those wilderness treatment ranches Dr Phil likes to talk about instead of just the regular wilderness. I mean, they might be brutal, but there’s more that one way to force myself to act like an actual human.. I need some very very tough love if I am going to force myself to be a “good patient/good person” when I don’t actually believe I need to be…Plain old compassion and gently being challenged? My loved ones and I have been there and done that since I was a little weird child. Still a misfit, still can’t conform to social norms, still too radical for this movement and literally everyone. Maybe after all these years I am the only one and the only thing to blame, but it feels like I was born a misfit all the same. Even for the mainstream folks with all their “permanent illness” narratives there is still a point at which if a person does not fight against their illness, they become plain old selfish. Perhaps I have crossed that threshold. It seems to be the one of the few things both sides agree on. If this is all my fault now, why does it feel so hard to change? If I could just decide to grow up and I’d be out of this mess, why don’t I? I wish I could get rid of my rebellion but it just won’t die.