What you are doing is not recommended by the holistic psychiatrists that specialize in deprescribing (tapering people off of psychotropic drugs). First, switching to a new antidepressant does not stop the withdrawl from the old antidepressant. Secondly, you are tapering way too fast. There’s a reason holistic psychiatrist recommend tapering at 10% or less of the previous dose every 10 to 14 days. That is the absolute fastest, it is too fast for many people. For Cymbalta, most people taper at a rate of 2.5% to 5% every 10 to 14 days. Anything faster than 10% can cause post acute withdrawal syndrome and make you severely disabled. Yes, I know you don’t want to wait that long. But there are no shortcuts. Some people they have rapid tapered are still suffering from post acute withdrawal syndrome years later. At first, people feel fine after a rapid taper because withdrawl symptoms can be delayed. 2 to 6 Months later they get slammed with post acute withdrawal syndrome. Cymbalta is known for particularly bad withdrawl. It is on the “do not prescribe” list for the French medical journal prescrirer because of the cardiac side effects and the withdrawl. You can do this. Many people who’ve had severe withdrawal symptoms with a rapid taper do just fine with a slow taper. Unfortunately, psychiatrists that practice conventional medicine ignore the pharmaceutical manufacturers instructions to do “a gradual taper”. That’s right, even the pharmaceutical companies recommend a gradual taper.Most psychiatrists think the definition of a gradual taper is a few weeks or months because the current clinical practice guidelines don’t specify a specific number of what the taper rate. They are also unaware of the FDA’s warnings that large changes in dose up or down of psychotropic drugs can cause suicidality, homicidality, psychosis and mania.
Surviving and thriving, thanks for commenting. I agree. People need treatment for chronic pain. It’s not just drugs that have risks and side effects, herbs and supplements have risks too. Some studies estimate as many as 50% of suicides are by people with chronic pain. We will never know the true number because not everybody leaves a suicide note.
Publish your book. If you can’t find anyone interested, you can self publish it.
Thanks for the article.
I’m sorry. Somehow hit the wrong button and I reported this comment and can’t figure out how to undo it. Just ignore the report.
What about chronic pain? By “chronic pain”, I mean physical pain like muscle pain. That makes a lot of people suicidal.
Please be aware doctors often rapid taper people off of psychotropic drugs. The psychiatrist that specialize in deprescribing (stopping psychotropic drugs) like Dr. Kelly Brogan Dr. Peter Breggin etc. recommend a taper of no more than 10% of the previous dose every 10 to 14 days. Other experts like Ann Blake Tracy recommend an even slower taper. Even the drug manufacturers and the FDA warned that large changes in dose up or down can cause suicidality, homicide, mania and psychosis. If you do a conventional rapid taper like what most doctors recommend, you could end up in long-lasting withdrawal called postacute withdrawal syndrome. Doctors are taught in medical school that long-lasting psychotropic drug withdrawal does not exist. So you must be careful and find out how your doctor feels about tapering first before you decide if it’s worth the risk telling the doctor you want to stop the medication because some doctors get offended and will refuse to write a prescription. https://beyondmeds.com/2012/02/13/taper10percent/
What a story. I’m so sorry you went through that.
Good luck with your project. I hope the right people can step up to help you.
Thanks for all your hard work Emily. Best wishes with school.
Excellent article
I’ve got news for you Dr. Breggin. Every pharmacy reports nonadherence to psychotropic drugs to the patient’s doctor. It’s not just CVS. Not all the time, but often. Even for antidepressants. It’s not just neuroleptics. We would have to boycott all pharmacies. Which just isn’t realistic. Because some of us do take other prescription medications. Sometimes we can’t just take the supplement that is nature’s equivalent to a medication. Even if it’s for financial reasons because insurance companies don’t pay for supplements.
Steve, On one of your other posts, you said you volunteer for a crisis line that is run the old-school way, you only call the cops with the knowledge and consent of the user. How does that work? What do you do if the caller attempts suicide while you are talking to them and won’t consent to an active rescue? Also, how can I find a crisis hotline (to volunteer for) that is run this way? Every hotline that I know of is run the standard way, calling the cops for the slightest thing, including the local hotlines in my area. Do you have any suggestions on how we can convince more hotlines to be run this way?
Try looking up the writers on Amazon to see what books they’ve published. For example, I know Dr. Kelly Brogan has written books.
The antidepressant Cymbalta (duloxetine) has been a real bitch for me to get off of. Even doing a slow taper since June 10th of last year, I’ve experienced withdrawal symptoms. Such as a crippling headache that would disappear after I took a pill! Thanks for the reminder to report it to the FDA. Such a shame that the American Medical Association has not followed suit with the article in the French medical Journal that put Cymbalta on its “do not prescribe list” and recommends that doctors don’t prescribe it. All those lawsuits about Cymbalta and the AMA has no comment. I wish I had never started taking it. For every five years a person has been taking Cymbalta, it takes an average of a year to get off and that doesn’t eliminate withdrawal symptoms, it just reduces their severity.
So true.
Great article.
I’m so sorry that happened to you.
Julie have you read this fascinating exposé on treatment centers for eating disorders?
I’d like to ask you a question but not on here where everyone can read it. Perhaps I could ask you in the forums or by email or Facebook messages?
Becky
I’m so sorry for your loss!
Julie has authored articles but I can’t remember where I read them. Read those for more information about what she’s talking about.
Steve I’d like to ask you a question but not here where everyone can read it. Perhaps I could email you or ask you on the forum?
The question is, why is police violence so low in countries outside of the USA? Do they send mental health crisis teams instead of the police in those countries?
Thank you so much for writing this. I wish the mainstream media would publish stuff like this. I have chronic physical pain and take a weak opioid.
I just read your story that you published in the Jewish times. You’re beautiful, and don’t let anyone make you think otherwise.
I agree. Loving kindness works far better than force and coercion. It’s too bad that is not the norm. I just didn’t want you to take my word for it that a person has to be in imminent danger (or in some states substantial danger).
Emily, it is not your fault . It is the ER doctor’s fault for not knowing the rules, that one has to be actively suicidal and in imminent danger, I say again , imminent danger, that is, I’m going to kill myself when I get home and you can’t talk me out of it, to be locked up in a psych ward. Here is an article by a suicide therapist (therapist specializes in suicide) http://www.speakingofsuicide.com/2013/04/14/fears-of-mental-hospital/
I think it’s absolutely criminal that they locked you in a psych ward. Outrageous.
Thanks for writing the article. I enjoy reading what you write.
I hope you filed a complaint against whoever put you in the psych ward for passive suicidal thoughts and sent copies of the complaint to all the appropriate agencies. I’m sorry you’ve been through so much.
How about training the therapists how to do cognitive therapy for suicidal thoughts? As soon as I would bring up that topic, it’s like they lose all their counseling skills! Suicidal people are always told to get professional help, but the professionals are so unhelpful when it comes to suicide, it’s like they are completely untrained.
Half of all suicides are caused by under treated chronic pain. Give people enough relief from their physical pain and the suicide rate will drop by half.
There’s no link to the article.
I agree. Thanks for posting to properly educate people.
Great post! Please provide the article or reference for the 1 in 3 chance of being abused. It’s a good argument against being sent to a psych ward. And sent to partial hospitalization day treatment instead if the doctors and family insist on conventional treatment. Too bad ppl don’t know about the recovery approach.
Sera, I loved your article Suicidal Tendencies Part 1. What happened to part 2?
Dr Berezin, what do you mean by alcoholism is an addiction not a disease ? I ask because people still use the term addiction so I’m not really sure what you mean.
Paula, prisoners take psych drugs because prisons became the new place to institutionalize people after psychiatric hospitals were closed, not to reduce the need for prison staff. Why psych drugs instead of non pharmaceutical treatment? Because that is the way this country treats so called mental illness.
Good for you for testifying!
Which medications? I have trouble with breakthrough bleeding which is why I ask.
Did you report that guy to the medical board?
Great article. Love the title. Looking forward to the second one.
An IEP wouldn’t help. I had one. I use a wheelchair and I have always had the fine motor skills of a 2 year old from cerebral palsy. My teachers just gave excuses on why they couldn’t follow my IEP. Rest assured, it wouldn’t help anyway. Maybe tutoring would help. When my sister was 6 years old, she went from the lowest reading group to the highest group the next year with private tutoring over the summer. There’s always the option to get a GED too. Or online schooling.
That is where I discovered the mad in America website a couple years ago. On Yahoo news.
What study?
(1) is what it displays as.
The clinical trial link doesn’t show. It says (1)
Can someone give me an idea of what to write? I have chronic pain which makes it hard to think. I’ve never had any personal experience with AOT or inpatient hospitalization.
If that takes place, is what I meant to say.
That takes place, what about the rest of us who need to take a benzo post-surgery for a week? Will I have restricted access too? I do take tramadol every day for pain, I refused to take anything stronger.
May ask what condition you have? How many years did it take for you to get a diagnosis, and how many doctors did you see?
It probably wasn’t that slow. Doctors never discontinu medicines slow enough. 10 mgs taken four times a day should be discontinued over 6 weeks. I used to take it.
Dr. Brogan,
Is there residential treatment like what you have imagined in your article?
Dr. Moncrieff,
How, exactly, are we supposed to be able to find out how the drug will affect me the rest of my life ? People don’t post a lifelong history on the Internet.
What you are doing is not recommended by the holistic psychiatrists that specialize in deprescribing (tapering people off of psychotropic drugs). First, switching to a new antidepressant does not stop the withdrawl from the old antidepressant. Secondly, you are tapering way too fast. There’s a reason holistic psychiatrist recommend tapering at 10% or less of the previous dose every 10 to 14 days. That is the absolute fastest, it is too fast for many people. For Cymbalta, most people taper at a rate of 2.5% to 5% every 10 to 14 days. Anything faster than 10% can cause post acute withdrawal syndrome and make you severely disabled. Yes, I know you don’t want to wait that long. But there are no shortcuts. Some people they have rapid tapered are still suffering from post acute withdrawal syndrome years later. At first, people feel fine after a rapid taper because withdrawl symptoms can be delayed. 2 to 6 Months later they get slammed with post acute withdrawal syndrome. Cymbalta is known for particularly bad withdrawl. It is on the “do not prescribe” list for the French medical journal prescrirer because of the cardiac side effects and the withdrawl. You can do this. Many people who’ve had severe withdrawal symptoms with a rapid taper do just fine with a slow taper. Unfortunately, psychiatrists that practice conventional medicine ignore the pharmaceutical manufacturers instructions to do “a gradual taper”. That’s right, even the pharmaceutical companies recommend a gradual taper.Most psychiatrists think the definition of a gradual taper is a few weeks or months because the current clinical practice guidelines don’t specify a specific number of what the taper rate. They are also unaware of the FDA’s warnings that large changes in dose up or down of psychotropic drugs can cause suicidality, homicidality, psychosis and mania.
This article should help you. https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/05/back-to-basics-whats-wrong-with-nami/
Surviving and thriving, thanks for commenting. I agree. People need treatment for chronic pain. It’s not just drugs that have risks and side effects, herbs and supplements have risks too. Some studies estimate as many as 50% of suicides are by people with chronic pain. We will never know the true number because not everybody leaves a suicide note.
Publish your book. If you can’t find anyone interested, you can self publish it.
Thanks for the article.
I’m sorry. Somehow hit the wrong button and I reported this comment and can’t figure out how to undo it. Just ignore the report.
What about chronic pain? By “chronic pain”, I mean physical pain like muscle pain. That makes a lot of people suicidal.
Please be aware doctors often rapid taper people off of psychotropic drugs. The psychiatrist that specialize in deprescribing (stopping psychotropic drugs) like Dr. Kelly Brogan Dr. Peter Breggin etc. recommend a taper of no more than 10% of the previous dose every 10 to 14 days. Other experts like Ann Blake Tracy recommend an even slower taper. Even the drug manufacturers and the FDA warned that large changes in dose up or down can cause suicidality, homicide, mania and psychosis. If you do a conventional rapid taper like what most doctors recommend, you could end up in long-lasting withdrawal called postacute withdrawal syndrome. Doctors are taught in medical school that long-lasting psychotropic drug withdrawal does not exist. So you must be careful and find out how your doctor feels about tapering first before you decide if it’s worth the risk telling the doctor you want to stop the medication because some doctors get offended and will refuse to write a prescription. https://beyondmeds.com/2012/02/13/taper10percent/
What a story. I’m so sorry you went through that.
Good luck with your project. I hope the right people can step up to help you.
Thanks for all your hard work Emily. Best wishes with school.
Excellent article
I’ve got news for you Dr. Breggin. Every pharmacy reports nonadherence to psychotropic drugs to the patient’s doctor. It’s not just CVS. Not all the time, but often. Even for antidepressants. It’s not just neuroleptics. We would have to boycott all pharmacies. Which just isn’t realistic. Because some of us do take other prescription medications. Sometimes we can’t just take the supplement that is nature’s equivalent to a medication. Even if it’s for financial reasons because insurance companies don’t pay for supplements.
Steve, On one of your other posts, you said you volunteer for a crisis line that is run the old-school way, you only call the cops with the knowledge and consent of the user. How does that work? What do you do if the caller attempts suicide while you are talking to them and won’t consent to an active rescue? Also, how can I find a crisis hotline (to volunteer for) that is run this way? Every hotline that I know of is run the standard way, calling the cops for the slightest thing, including the local hotlines in my area. Do you have any suggestions on how we can convince more hotlines to be run this way?
Try looking up the writers on Amazon to see what books they’ve published. For example, I know Dr. Kelly Brogan has written books.
Here is the list of writers.
https://www.madinamerica.com/writers-page/
The antidepressant Cymbalta (duloxetine) has been a real bitch for me to get off of. Even doing a slow taper since June 10th of last year, I’ve experienced withdrawal symptoms. Such as a crippling headache that would disappear after I took a pill! Thanks for the reminder to report it to the FDA. Such a shame that the American Medical Association has not followed suit with the article in the French medical Journal that put Cymbalta on its “do not prescribe list” and recommends that doctors don’t prescribe it. All those lawsuits about Cymbalta and the AMA has no comment. I wish I had never started taking it. For every five years a person has been taking Cymbalta, it takes an average of a year to get off and that doesn’t eliminate withdrawal symptoms, it just reduces their severity.
So true.
Great article.
I’m so sorry that happened to you.
Julie have you read this fascinating exposé on treatment centers for eating disorders?
https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/07/are-eating-disorder-centers-a-rehab-racket/
Hi Steve,
I’d like to ask you a question but not on here where everyone can read it. Perhaps I could ask you in the forums or by email or Facebook messages?
Becky
I’m so sorry for your loss!
Julie has authored articles but I can’t remember where I read them. Read those for more information about what she’s talking about.
Steve I’d like to ask you a question but not here where everyone can read it. Perhaps I could email you or ask you on the forum?
The question is, why is police violence so low in countries outside of the USA? Do they send mental health crisis teams instead of the police in those countries?
Thank you so much for writing this. I wish the mainstream media would publish stuff like this. I have chronic physical pain and take a weak opioid.
I just read your story that you published in the Jewish times. You’re beautiful, and don’t let anyone make you think otherwise.
I agree. Loving kindness works far better than force and coercion. It’s too bad that is not the norm. I just didn’t want you to take my word for it that a person has to be in imminent danger (or in some states substantial danger).
Emily, it is not your fault . It is the ER doctor’s fault for not knowing the rules, that one has to be actively suicidal and in imminent danger, I say again , imminent danger, that is, I’m going to kill myself when I get home and you can’t talk me out of it, to be locked up in a psych ward. Here is an article by a suicide therapist (therapist specializes in suicide) http://www.speakingofsuicide.com/2013/04/14/fears-of-mental-hospital/
I think it’s absolutely criminal that they locked you in a psych ward. Outrageous.
Thanks for writing the article. I enjoy reading what you write.
I hope you filed a complaint against whoever put you in the psych ward for passive suicidal thoughts and sent copies of the complaint to all the appropriate agencies. I’m sorry you’ve been through so much.
How about training the therapists how to do cognitive therapy for suicidal thoughts? As soon as I would bring up that topic, it’s like they lose all their counseling skills! Suicidal people are always told to get professional help, but the professionals are so unhelpful when it comes to suicide, it’s like they are completely untrained.
Half of all suicides are caused by under treated chronic pain. Give people enough relief from their physical pain and the suicide rate will drop by half.
There’s no link to the article.
I agree. Thanks for posting to properly educate people.
Great post! Please provide the article or reference for the 1 in 3 chance of being abused. It’s a good argument against being sent to a psych ward. And sent to partial hospitalization day treatment instead if the doctors and family insist on conventional treatment. Too bad ppl don’t know about the recovery approach.
Sera, I loved your article Suicidal Tendencies Part 1. What happened to part 2?
Dr Berezin, what do you mean by alcoholism is an addiction not a disease ? I ask because people still use the term addiction so I’m not really sure what you mean.
Paula, prisoners take psych drugs because prisons became the new place to institutionalize people after psychiatric hospitals were closed, not to reduce the need for prison staff. Why psych drugs instead of non pharmaceutical treatment? Because that is the way this country treats so called mental illness.
Good for you for testifying!
Which medications? I have trouble with breakthrough bleeding which is why I ask.
Did you report that guy to the medical board?
Great article. Love the title. Looking forward to the second one.
An IEP wouldn’t help. I had one. I use a wheelchair and I have always had the fine motor skills of a 2 year old from cerebral palsy. My teachers just gave excuses on why they couldn’t follow my IEP. Rest assured, it wouldn’t help anyway. Maybe tutoring would help. When my sister was 6 years old, she went from the lowest reading group to the highest group the next year with private tutoring over the summer. There’s always the option to get a GED too. Or online schooling.
That is where I discovered the mad in America website a couple years ago. On Yahoo news.
What study?
(1) is what it displays as.
The clinical trial link doesn’t show. It says (1)
Can someone give me an idea of what to write? I have chronic pain which makes it hard to think. I’ve never had any personal experience with AOT or inpatient hospitalization.
If that takes place, is what I meant to say.
That takes place, what about the rest of us who need to take a benzo post-surgery for a week? Will I have restricted access too? I do take tramadol every day for pain, I refused to take anything stronger.
May ask what condition you have? How many years did it take for you to get a diagnosis, and how many doctors did you see?
It probably wasn’t that slow. Doctors never discontinu medicines slow enough. 10 mgs taken four times a day should be discontinued over 6 weeks. I used to take it.
Dr. Brogan,
Is there residential treatment like what you have imagined in your article?
Dr. Moncrieff,
How, exactly, are we supposed to be able to find out how the drug will affect me the rest of my life ? People don’t post a lifelong history on the Internet.
B, Thanks for the links. I’m new here.