Least possible for shortest time. That is the motto of competent doctors. I have never met or heard of one doctor who doesn’t live by that, including those in my family.
Dr.,
I Will contact you at your workplace. I don’t know how often you check here for comments and questions. I am reaching out to a number of the “writers” here personally just to let you know ahead of time. You appear to be scholarly and devoted to the welfare of children.
Who am I to pretend to know anything about you and your wish to go away from this mess permanently. Like I have some right to insist you stay here! Only just a little bit presumptuous on my part. Do I want your advice? I’d ask for it wouldn’t I?
You loved them, didn’t you? They left here for the next dimension having experienced love. What a priceless gift you gave. Some have never known what that is like and never will and they will die that way. That is a tragedy. That is heartbreaking.
I bet God gets pissed off every time we walk by a field of purple flowers and forget to thank him for their beauty. Color Purple
Human rights taken away
humanity disregarded
Folks like those you relate to? Seems to be the price for admission. Here, people identify with and accept and even support the psychically injured. A special niche where the damaged goods of a sick culture find refuge.
Even for a drug pushing proponent and survivor of the fictitious ADHD hoax?
Dylan sang just when you thought you couldn’t lose any more, you find you have even more to lose
Mr Lewis, what environment factors cause ADHD symptoms?
Water kills more people in a summer than this deadly potion has harmed, ever. Air is more toxic. Living is far more deadly.
One small dose of this proven to be safe drug, energizes a crippled human brain and yields the ability for millions of handicapped persons to hear their teacher lecture and comprehend her lesson, when this had been impossible before. A human brain is not perfect. Human brains malfunction. Human brains are extraordinarily complex. Some do not fire on all eight cylinders, all the time.
This documented condition is rejected by people who oppose the drugging of children. The brain is incapable of failing to work properly always. To them, the brain must, always perform in a manner that handicaps no one, ever. Is that how your brain works? At the same time drugging children with aspirin is fine. The dangerous, lethal drug aspirin draws no fire.
That a dangerous, ineffective, addictive poison pushed on an ignorant, lazy, apathetic society as a remedy for the made-up, fictitious, phony, money-making, disease forced on upon us through the creative con-men of deceit and image hustling, and paid for by the organized cartels of drug dealing wall street ceos, may not receive the same reception by some as say birth control medication, may not shock you.
Aspirin, after all, is more dangerous. That this poisonous concoction of death has aided millions of children and adults A REAL SHOT to live normal, healthy lives is buried, never to be mentioned or whispered about by opponent’s to this snake-oil cocktail of doom.
Good point.
Obesity is pandemic. It is a very serious health threat and Americans eat our way passed all contenders like the great champs we are. Trade offs in an imperfect world.
Profit margins……have replaced concern for improving the human condition? When did that happen? No one cares any more?
We live longer
We live healthier
We have better nutrition
We have the finest doctors
We have the best hospitals
We have the best technology
We have more self-help groups
We have more information/access to information
We have more choices
We even have more brilliant, aggressive lawyers than one can possibly imagine who might pursue malpractice for us
Should we ignore the science which indicates that many adults who had ADHD as kids, never grew out of it, as was believed? Should we conclude without question that the drug companies created a new market without scientific justification?
A newly designed drug often addresses more than the original targeted problem. I expect it is difficult to find better minds than the chemists who are paid very well to develope life saving drugs and life enhancing products. A love of money is a deceitful culprit. He makes his influence known on many levels and in many places. I don’t hear much about his brother, Greedy. These fellas cause much grief, create wars, jealousy, but little happiness or contentment. The question I must keep asking is “am I greedy”
Bob, how do researchers justify giving placebos to children when they present with depression which is often associated with suicidal ideation? Any ideas? Suicide. Children. Placebo. Seems to me that is an ethical issue that needs to be addressed.
Who told you drugs for ADHD are benign? Packaging info lists the risks.
We are talking about and confusing 2 separate things. First, either ADHD is real or it is not. How it is best treated makes no difference if it isn’t, if it is fictitious. Do you think it is real? If not, there is no reason to continue to debate how to treat it, is there? I mean, debate by all means. I’m just wondering what difference does it make to discuss/debate the safety of drugs when ADHD is a fraud. Are you trying to say it is not real because some people experience negative side effects by using a remedy for the very thing they don’t have?
Perpetual clowning disorder? Not bad. I think I have that, too. Haven’t seen too many use PCD as a money maker, yet, but we never know.
You raise a topic, indirectly however, that sheds light on the merits of ADHD. Millions advocate for it. Millions are touched by it, directly or otherwise. Scholars, M.D.s. PhDs, psychologists, educators, social workers, parents, kids, adults find there is merit to the assertions that it is and without treatment, it’s impact is negative. If there really wasn’t anything to this dilemma, it would go away. The vast majority of people who recognize it would have diminished. Doctors prescribing drugs for kids without a damn good reason to, would have to be fools. Most doctors want to help others.
Jon, my question concerned the mechanism of action and how drugs improve a condition that is fictitious. Drugs can’t impact something that isn’t there, can they? ADHD is made up. Speed helps everyone to focus, but ADHD has nothing to do with focusing, at least that is something that isn’t clear to me.
Didn’t you say that it works well at first for the ADHDer? But, the ADHDer doesn’t have anything that a drug needs to work well on, that needs drugs to make help him. He is fine. Since everyone responds with better concentration to speed, why don’t ADHD supporters advocate their usage by everyone? Why do ADHDers claim speed helps them do things they cannot do without it?
If you think of any cash cows I may have missed, let me know, would you? My cash reserves are only slightly over 10 mill. I pay a one time finders fee of $600,000 and John, will the state pay my way through Samis conversational cure? I love to conversate.
Jon, why do you think drugs provide such powerful short-term improvements for the ADHD sufferer?
How? ADHD doesn’t exist, so drugs don’t act on those kinds of symptoms or their root causes or molecular precursors I guess, if I follow the logic. But, if you recognize how wonderfully the drugs do relieve the ADHD sufferers quandary so that he can participate in the classroom successfully and on the playground, etc., isn’t it paramount to find out how that happens, because the ADHD that is fictitious is becoming manageable. And we all want kids to succeed. So, what do these chemicals do, any thoughts? And what kinds of improvements do they actually make?
What do you think it is like to have ADHD? Do you think it is important to listen to the testimonials of people who have it?
It is good to see your heart in the right place. No one wants to harm little kids. No decent person. And not you. You go out of your way to try to protect them, don’t you? Gotta love it.
Thanks for your thoughtful responses. You obviously care about kids.
Why is it key to look at these responses? If they were all positive would that make ADHD a valid disorder? (Do you believe all that you read there?) If lots and lots of people praise these drugs, how do you interpret that?
About a third recover sufficiently to stop using antipsychotics entirely while some only need meds occasionally and can go back to work, etc. 150,000 is about one third of 450,000.
How are double-blind, controlled drug tests conducted among children with depression using a placebo?
How many more might be qualified for disability if not for meds? A more liberal criteria may have helped many who would have been left out in the cold.
Paul Markovitz says less than 80 mgs a day of Prozac doesn’t offer the therapeutic punch BPD patients need for full relief. At 80 mgs they show remarkable progress, not observed at 60 or 40 or 20, though he’d prefer 10 could do the trick.
Fortunately there are kids who avoided prison no doubt because they caught their ADHD in time! The propensity of ADHDers without treatment to commit crime is known.
Any other teachers interested in sharing your observations? How many miracles did you see altogether laureleafy? I knew a young boy who was incomprehensible for a week or two after I met him. Couldn’t understand a word he said. Nice kid. Pleasant, but way out there. Saw a psychiatrist and the next time I saw him. He was lucid, playing like little guys do and an entirely different child. His folks said he was diagnosed with ADHD and started on Ritalin.
I was amazed. Knew nothing about it at the time and certainly never dreamed within a year I would be joining his team.
Your wisdom exceeds your youth. Rarely, if ever, do people seem to comprehend what ADHD is like and the devastation it causes. I wouldn’t be able to imagine it either. I wish I could trade brains for a minute with a normal brained person. With treatment I’m glad to have the brain I have. It is a pretty cool brain. I wouldn’t trade it.
What are your strengths?
Taking meds as an ADHD teenager has prophylactic benefits.
ADHD exists
ADHD does not exist
ADHD interferes substantially
ADHD is no big deal
ADHD often responds dramatically to medication
ADHD is fake. Something times nothing is nothing
Thanks. I wanted to hear from the teacher but I appreciate your feedback. Interesting to know she found the typical reaction as miraculous. I read how that is often the case.
Out of 4,500,000 how many would we expect would have negative side effects which are listed on the packaging material? If they are dissatisfied, they should switch to Ritalin, or other drugs. If they experience side effects on those, stop.
They work, obviously. If the price is too great, stop. They improve one’s concentration whether the person is crippled by his incapacity to focus or not. Measures on working memory are not the same across the board. Not everyone needs corrective lenses. Not everyone likes to wear corrective lenses. For millions, drugs offer the opportunity to perform in the classroom and in life nothing else does.
Cool website. Glad you are benefiting so much from treatment and you are reaching out to your peers with the good news. Keep up the good work.
Do you worry that the children receiving these stimulants are being drugged so that their caregivers can make money or that schools can receive additional funding? Are they manifesting the indications they’ve been drugged in the traditional sense?
The symptoms are the target of the meds. They diminish significantly usually upon proper medical intervention. What underlies those symptoms? The data suggests several specific areas of the brain are involved. Work continues to pinpoint precisely the biochemicals and structures in the brain responsible. One’s ability to focus his attention dramatically increases with the introduction of chemicals to those regions. Uncontrollable behavior is mitigated. Millions have found relief. Millions of people have experienced profound improvements in cognitive function. Those making money from manufacturing this life altering med deserve to make money. The vast majority of medical doctors in this country subscribe to the belief that stimulants play a significant role in treating this disorder. They support the research that is examining the importance of neurotransmitters, synapses, blood flow, which bear directly upon this crippling problem.
We are a shame free zone. We are told to avoid personal attacks. Sarcasm is forbidden. Guidelines. When do we step over the line? How can we tell when we go too far?
How are kids who are hyper going to avoid mental labels? Does anyone believe ADHD kids want to act in ways that will bring derision upon them?
Observation, close, prolonged, intense, directed observations of a person’s behavior and an examination of his school records, incorporating teachers input, family interviews, a thorough physical workup plus relevant PET Scans or related test results are sufficient to make an accurate diagnosis Dr. C., aren’t they?
If a person doesn’t have ADHD and he’s given an RX of stimulants to last 3 days because of a misdiagnosis, generally speaking, how much damage to the person can be done? Most people do not have severe reactions. If the diagnosis is accurate and the person responds like most do, and he can fulfill his potential now that he can direct his attention, do you think it is appropriate, as a physician, to try him on an RX for 3 days, Dr. C?
I know what you mean. When it costs a lot to move a new drug all the way to the market, only so many people can afford to do it. It is a messy project necessarily when so much rides on the outcome, I think.
Do you remember the lawsuits and the contradicting medical evidence over the Dow breast implant litigation? Even the editor of the NEJM faced criticism for her interpretation of the evidence.
Dr. C., the slight differences you describe may be where we are having a semantic challenge. I would say if the behavioral differences are slight between normal kids and ADHD kids, there would be no justification to concerned. This is where we part ways I guess. And what you call minor differences in their brains I get, but they add up, don’t they? Seems to me that quite a few tests on various parts of the ADHD brain consistently show differences that suggests an entire network isn’t functioning.
I don’t see tests conducted on unknowns. Their labeling may not be based on the precision we’d like, but even Alan Schwarz supports the reality that ADHD exists. Matthew Herper of Forbes is doing some interesting reporting, btw.
I think most involved in serious work on this matter are doing the best they can with what they have. I don’t think the research can be described fairly as 60 years of trying to justify drugging kids. Do you really believe that Dr.? Wouldn’t it be easier to manufacture and charge a fortune for a placebo with no stimulants and announce it as the answer? Here’s xyz, the replacement for stimulants you’ve all been waiting for? (Come to think of it, that may not be the dumbest idea I ever had!)
That isn’t my goal to con people. I do best I can to learn all I can and to share it.
It wasn’t intended as such. Much condescension does go around here. I think ADHD is something to be proud of. I didn’t realize I was diagnosing anyone, nor that it was forbidden. I can see now why it was viewed that way. If I have been diagnosing others, I certainly wasn’t aware of it and apologize.
Zamboni
I am sure it is. The problem is this. Publishing results of testing opens the door to anyone seeking to dispute the results. If the tests are bogus or the results are or anything is off, it can be shown by anyone in the world who would like to.
I don’t trust anything without verification. I’m a nutcase. I have to toot my own horn here a little. I couldn’t believe what was happening to me could be real. It just couldn’t. If something was too good to be true, it wasn’t. So, I studied everything I thought was substantial by scientists and experts from NEJM and Harvard and so on. I learned quite a bit, challenging everything along the way. The ADHD mind sis a Zambezi machine when something captures its attention. It is unreal. Anyway, I am satisfied that many sincere, dedicated scientists of the first order have more than enough evidence that proves beyond a shadow of doubt the reality of this disorder or trait or whatever it is. And that there are reasons to be hopeful improvements can be made in those who have it.
For most it really does seem like a miracle
I know. I had no expectations when I was diagnosed. I thought they just didn’t realize how brilliant I was. No pill I took was going to make them see it! A test sophisticated and finely tuned enough to sufficiently measure my genius just hadn’t been created yet!
I never knew how much I had missed out on until that first dose. It was like a real miracle. “Beauty I’d always missed with these eyes before… ” it wasn’t just cold hard data I’d failed to process. In a rapid rush and hectic race to keep my head above water, I was so revved up, not much was enjoyable; couldn’t savor the scenery very well at mach 2.
Not condescending at all. I don’t believe having ADHD is a negative, at all. I pointed out positive qualities you have.
It isn’t an informed opinion, Steve and I said that. I said I sensed it, that’s all. And I meant it as something pretty cool. People with ADHD are known for having an uncanny ability to intuit. I found that interesting when I read that years ago because it was true of me. I wondered how the heck would they know that?
Take care Steve. Hope that you continue to do well. I know you are very capable. That’s what I wanted to say. Sorry.
Never said you weren’t qualified. Do you have identifying information about doctors handing out speed like it’s candy? They should go to jail.
I would present your questions to the researchers. They are like NASA scientists seeking diligently answers to life’s mysteries. They list their funding sources. See what they have to say.
Steve, did you have a chance to read the entire article?
I think your attentional deficits are interfering with your analysis. Seriously. They measured both DAT and D2D3 receptive markers in 53 non-medicated adults and 44 control participants. They measured specific binding of PET radioligands…
Dr. C. Would you explain the testing protocols and results to Steve if he has any further questions about this particular study? He doesn’t believe me.
These aren’t hacks doing this research. These guys are at the top of their game and they publish their entire testing history so that it can be judged and replicated or not. JAMA is highly regarded. If you find fault with anything in this study, challenge them. That is what it is here for.
There isn’t really a debate. JAMA Sept 9, 2009 on pathways of dopamine is just one additional source of data confirming what those who have it keep repeating.
This study included 53 adults who never used stimulants.
Women couldn’t vote until 1920 and even then, many men did not recognize their right to do so.
See JAMA, September 9, 2009 Alterations in Brain Dopamine Pathway
53 non-medicated adults with ADHD were used in the testing.
Dr. Corrigan, the replicable outcome of scientific testing is established. There is no disputing it. Clearly, without question, ADHD is flush with significant differences from the rate of metabolism of glucose to the thinning of brain matter in frontal lobes. The markers are coming. We have so much empirical data compared to 40 years ago, if they knew then what is known now, questions about a genuine diagnosis would be moot, today.
The diagnosis sets the prisoner free.
Read Driven To Distraction. Wonderfully written by a Harvard educated M.D. who has it and mild Dyslexia. T’will blow your socks off, guaranteed, or I’ll send you a buck. Which goes to show you, I have no financial interest in promoting the ADHD game.
Re-read the data when you find the time. Some ADHD kids catch up by 15. She says many don’t and they struggle for the rest of their lives. Take a look at the way you reject and accept results from the same study.
I think you have ADHD, Steve. No intention to insult you, at all. I think you manifest a number of the characteristics. Bright, creative, passionate, a strong family link (it seems), big hearted. I sense, and that is all it is is a sense, that you haven’t achieved nearly as much as you hoped and prepared to, worked hard to, dreamed of. I sense that is a deep, deep source of pain that hangs on in your gut and that just doesn’t go away.
What I am trying to say is simple. ADHD is only a disorder when it interfers significantly with a person’s potential. Have symptoms out the wazoo, have 27,906,209 symptoms every day all day. Who cares? You move a long, singing a song. You aren’t exactly going to be Einstein, but you get by and have a few laughs.
Not our boy with ADHD. His life is a long parade of failures, disappointments, underachievement, inexplicable broken dreams. He is the Willy Loman of Willy Lomamville. He’s the guy no one gets. He has what it takes. Bright, personable, energetic, loves to help people. Yet, for some strange, unknown reason, he always takes two steps back after a giant brash one forward.
Judy proved her hypothesis that the frontal lobes mature more quickly in non-ADHD teenagers to the age of 15, when many ADHDers catch up.
Would you mind sharing the names and addresses of 3 of them?
Pet scans reveal the increased flow of neurotransmitters, including dopamine, through the synapses in the brains of ADHDers with medication
Kids in a free academic setting didn’t learn anything, either.
If you trust the results of one observational study of 8 children with ADHD from 40 years ago, before they knew that non-attentional ADHD existed, consider the studies and tests, double blind and controlled, PET, SPECT, MRI scans and more that have become a mountain of information that is indisputable.
You assume the results don’t count because of money, or they yield nothing that holds up under scrutiny because of money. Since when did science dismiss common sense? Wouldn’t the conspiracy to take over the world via drug sales through the drug cartels of Wall Street be more difficult to accept, scientifically?
By far the vast majority of scientists, medical doctors, PhDs, doctors of education and on and on — recognize the symptoms of ADHD and the profound impact drugs have. Honestly, no one really doubts its reality as a disorder and anyone not blind can see how dramatically drugs change people who are out there. It is about semantics but more it’s about sensibilities. You know, I can’t define pornography exactly, but I know it when I see it. That kind of thing. But, in reality, we get closer everyday to unraveling the puzzle. We have so much information from so many sources screaming at us that we must keep working on developing the best treatment modalities. It is a given that it is real, has distinct markers and in most cases treatable.
Read Sue Smalley’s little piece on her ADHD husband. She was a PhD professor at UCLA who has lived intimately with ADHD for 40 years.
I find it fascinating that you and others, people who have never met me and know nothing about me, do know without a trace of doubt, absolutely positively, that I do not have the thing that destroyed my life for many years.
Glad to hear your child responded well to medication. That is wonderful. That’s what it is all about. We don’t drug kids to make money. Parents drug their kids so they can better function.
Drugging children with juvenile diabetes with insulin saves their lives.
Please see Judith Rapoport, M.D., NIMH Child Psychiatry Branch “Brain Matures A Few Years Late in ADHD”
The diagnosis isn’t based on the symptoms. The prevalence of that misconception is astounding. Of course we all have those symptoms or idiosyncrasies to varying degrees.
Dr., Which scientist is conducting research on ADHD to justify drugging kids for profit? Do you have a name and address? She should be fired. IOW, manipulating test protocols to achieve a predetermined outcome for the purpose of deceitful packaging of a product for profit violates the law. She should charged with theft.
Would you name that doctor who hands out speed like candy? Criminal charges should be filed against her immediately.
Why would you connect conducting research on ADHD with making money as your first argument? Take the profit motive consideration out of your analysis, then examine the science.
Dr., many objective scientists see the overwhelming body of evidence that ADHD is a disorder. Although much work needs to done, Smalley, before she retired, amassed sufficient empirical data to be convinced that ADHD is a heavily genetically linked set of characteristics to have her work accepted by independent esteemed scientists.
Yet, there are thousands of tests that prove there are clear differences between those who have it and those who do not. The delay in the maturation by 3 years of portions of the brain in ADHD, see Smalley, UCLA, is a lead in the pursuit to mark the differences. Surely, we don’t stop seeking the science behind what we don’t understand.
Several Nazi big shots were hung for their crimes. Goering cheated and snuck some cyanide because he was refused a proper military execution by a firing squad. Anyway, we had their names and lots of records and eyewitness testimony as evidence to use against them.
Do you know any of the names of those psychiatrists and/or pharmaceutical executives who have committed these atrocities? Credible evidence for their role in committing the atrocities and reliable documentation which describes the exact nature of the atrocities?
Paul Markovitz believes 80 mgs of Prozac to treat BPD is the best dosage based on the literature. Have you found psychotherapy to be helpful when you work with a patient with BPD? What if he is engaged in suicidal behavior? Are you familiar with the work of Dr. Markovitz?
I suppose treating brain cancer with chemicals is a recognized tool within the field of medicine to attack the cancer. Something like a “critical mass” of cancer cells within the brain likely interferes with the individuals mood and cognitive functioning, is safe to say. Why do we rely upon chemicals to fight these cancerous cells, which if successful, could restore one’s mood and thinking abilities, if the health of neurons doesn’t depend upon and cannot be restored through the use of drugs?
Brain tissue is just that. It is composed of living cells. Living cells break down. Living cells die and become diseased, infected, old and worn. How is it possible, given the marvels of modern science, that they would exist outside the realm of all we know about biology and chemistry and electricity? Without a sufficent supply of sodium ions, dendritic activity falters.
Are you saying that the unique constellation of our temperament, our genetic make up, cannot be flawed?
Would you mind giving examples from the literature? Are any valid scientific studies supporting the long term benefits of SSRIs, for example? If reduced dosages are effective in the short term and are not harmful, should they be used?
Comment removed.
Least possible for shortest time. That is the motto of competent doctors. I have never met or heard of one doctor who doesn’t live by that, including those in my family.
Dr.,
I Will contact you at your workplace. I don’t know how often you check here for comments and questions. I am reaching out to a number of the “writers” here personally just to let you know ahead of time. You appear to be scholarly and devoted to the welfare of children.
Who am I to pretend to know anything about you and your wish to go away from this mess permanently. Like I have some right to insist you stay here! Only just a little bit presumptuous on my part. Do I want your advice? I’d ask for it wouldn’t I?
You loved them, didn’t you? They left here for the next dimension having experienced love. What a priceless gift you gave. Some have never known what that is like and never will and they will die that way. That is a tragedy. That is heartbreaking.
I bet God gets pissed off every time we walk by a field of purple flowers and forget to thank him for their beauty. Color Purple
Human rights taken away
humanity disregarded
Folks like those you relate to? Seems to be the price for admission. Here, people identify with and accept and even support the psychically injured. A special niche where the damaged goods of a sick culture find refuge.
Even for a drug pushing proponent and survivor of the fictitious ADHD hoax?
Dylan sang just when you thought you couldn’t lose any more, you find you have even more to lose
Mr Lewis, what environment factors cause ADHD symptoms?
Water kills more people in a summer than this deadly potion has harmed, ever. Air is more toxic. Living is far more deadly.
One small dose of this proven to be safe drug, energizes a crippled human brain and yields the ability for millions of handicapped persons to hear their teacher lecture and comprehend her lesson, when this had been impossible before. A human brain is not perfect. Human brains malfunction. Human brains are extraordinarily complex. Some do not fire on all eight cylinders, all the time.
This documented condition is rejected by people who oppose the drugging of children. The brain is incapable of failing to work properly always. To them, the brain must, always perform in a manner that handicaps no one, ever. Is that how your brain works? At the same time drugging children with aspirin is fine. The dangerous, lethal drug aspirin draws no fire.
That a dangerous, ineffective, addictive poison pushed on an ignorant, lazy, apathetic society as a remedy for the made-up, fictitious, phony, money-making, disease forced on upon us through the creative con-men of deceit and image hustling, and paid for by the organized cartels of drug dealing wall street ceos, may not receive the same reception by some as say birth control medication, may not shock you.
Aspirin, after all, is more dangerous. That this poisonous concoction of death has aided millions of children and adults A REAL SHOT to live normal, healthy lives is buried, never to be mentioned or whispered about by opponent’s to this snake-oil cocktail of doom.
Good point.
Obesity is pandemic. It is a very serious health threat and Americans eat our way passed all contenders like the great champs we are. Trade offs in an imperfect world.
Profit margins……have replaced concern for improving the human condition? When did that happen? No one cares any more?
We live longer
We live healthier
We have better nutrition
We have the finest doctors
We have the best hospitals
We have the best technology
We have more self-help groups
We have more information/access to information
We have more choices
We even have more brilliant, aggressive lawyers than one can possibly imagine who might pursue malpractice for us
Should we ignore the science which indicates that many adults who had ADHD as kids, never grew out of it, as was believed? Should we conclude without question that the drug companies created a new market without scientific justification?
A newly designed drug often addresses more than the original targeted problem. I expect it is difficult to find better minds than the chemists who are paid very well to develope life saving drugs and life enhancing products. A love of money is a deceitful culprit. He makes his influence known on many levels and in many places. I don’t hear much about his brother, Greedy. These fellas cause much grief, create wars, jealousy, but little happiness or contentment. The question I must keep asking is “am I greedy”
Bob, how do researchers justify giving placebos to children when they present with depression which is often associated with suicidal ideation? Any ideas? Suicide. Children. Placebo. Seems to me that is an ethical issue that needs to be addressed.
Who told you drugs for ADHD are benign? Packaging info lists the risks.
We are talking about and confusing 2 separate things. First, either ADHD is real or it is not. How it is best treated makes no difference if it isn’t, if it is fictitious. Do you think it is real? If not, there is no reason to continue to debate how to treat it, is there? I mean, debate by all means. I’m just wondering what difference does it make to discuss/debate the safety of drugs when ADHD is a fraud. Are you trying to say it is not real because some people experience negative side effects by using a remedy for the very thing they don’t have?
Perpetual clowning disorder? Not bad. I think I have that, too. Haven’t seen too many use PCD as a money maker, yet, but we never know.
You raise a topic, indirectly however, that sheds light on the merits of ADHD. Millions advocate for it. Millions are touched by it, directly or otherwise. Scholars, M.D.s. PhDs, psychologists, educators, social workers, parents, kids, adults find there is merit to the assertions that it is and without treatment, it’s impact is negative. If there really wasn’t anything to this dilemma, it would go away. The vast majority of people who recognize it would have diminished. Doctors prescribing drugs for kids without a damn good reason to, would have to be fools. Most doctors want to help others.
Jon, my question concerned the mechanism of action and how drugs improve a condition that is fictitious. Drugs can’t impact something that isn’t there, can they? ADHD is made up. Speed helps everyone to focus, but ADHD has nothing to do with focusing, at least that is something that isn’t clear to me.
Didn’t you say that it works well at first for the ADHDer? But, the ADHDer doesn’t have anything that a drug needs to work well on, that needs drugs to make help him. He is fine. Since everyone responds with better concentration to speed, why don’t ADHD supporters advocate their usage by everyone? Why do ADHDers claim speed helps them do things they cannot do without it?
If you think of any cash cows I may have missed, let me know, would you? My cash reserves are only slightly over 10 mill. I pay a one time finders fee of $600,000 and John, will the state pay my way through Samis conversational cure? I love to conversate.
Jon, why do you think drugs provide such powerful short-term improvements for the ADHD sufferer?
How? ADHD doesn’t exist, so drugs don’t act on those kinds of symptoms or their root causes or molecular precursors I guess, if I follow the logic. But, if you recognize how wonderfully the drugs do relieve the ADHD sufferers quandary so that he can participate in the classroom successfully and on the playground, etc., isn’t it paramount to find out how that happens, because the ADHD that is fictitious is becoming manageable. And we all want kids to succeed. So, what do these chemicals do, any thoughts? And what kinds of improvements do they actually make?
What do you think it is like to have ADHD? Do you think it is important to listen to the testimonials of people who have it?
It is good to see your heart in the right place. No one wants to harm little kids. No decent person. And not you. You go out of your way to try to protect them, don’t you? Gotta love it.
Thanks for your thoughtful responses. You obviously care about kids.
Why is it key to look at these responses? If they were all positive would that make ADHD a valid disorder? (Do you believe all that you read there?) If lots and lots of people praise these drugs, how do you interpret that?
About a third recover sufficiently to stop using antipsychotics entirely while some only need meds occasionally and can go back to work, etc. 150,000 is about one third of 450,000.
How are double-blind, controlled drug tests conducted among children with depression using a placebo?
How many more might be qualified for disability if not for meds? A more liberal criteria may have helped many who would have been left out in the cold.
Paul Markovitz says less than 80 mgs a day of Prozac doesn’t offer the therapeutic punch BPD patients need for full relief. At 80 mgs they show remarkable progress, not observed at 60 or 40 or 20, though he’d prefer 10 could do the trick.
Fortunately there are kids who avoided prison no doubt because they caught their ADHD in time! The propensity of ADHDers without treatment to commit crime is known.
Any other teachers interested in sharing your observations? How many miracles did you see altogether laureleafy? I knew a young boy who was incomprehensible for a week or two after I met him. Couldn’t understand a word he said. Nice kid. Pleasant, but way out there. Saw a psychiatrist and the next time I saw him. He was lucid, playing like little guys do and an entirely different child. His folks said he was diagnosed with ADHD and started on Ritalin.
I was amazed. Knew nothing about it at the time and certainly never dreamed within a year I would be joining his team.
Your wisdom exceeds your youth. Rarely, if ever, do people seem to comprehend what ADHD is like and the devastation it causes. I wouldn’t be able to imagine it either. I wish I could trade brains for a minute with a normal brained person. With treatment I’m glad to have the brain I have. It is a pretty cool brain. I wouldn’t trade it.
What are your strengths?
Taking meds as an ADHD teenager has prophylactic benefits.
ADHD exists
ADHD does not exist
ADHD interferes substantially
ADHD is no big deal
ADHD often responds dramatically to medication
ADHD is fake. Something times nothing is nothing
Thanks. I wanted to hear from the teacher but I appreciate your feedback. Interesting to know she found the typical reaction as miraculous. I read how that is often the case.
Out of 4,500,000 how many would we expect would have negative side effects which are listed on the packaging material? If they are dissatisfied, they should switch to Ritalin, or other drugs. If they experience side effects on those, stop.
They work, obviously. If the price is too great, stop. They improve one’s concentration whether the person is crippled by his incapacity to focus or not. Measures on working memory are not the same across the board. Not everyone needs corrective lenses. Not everyone likes to wear corrective lenses. For millions, drugs offer the opportunity to perform in the classroom and in life nothing else does.
Cool website. Glad you are benefiting so much from treatment and you are reaching out to your peers with the good news. Keep up the good work.
Do you worry that the children receiving these stimulants are being drugged so that their caregivers can make money or that schools can receive additional funding? Are they manifesting the indications they’ve been drugged in the traditional sense?
The symptoms are the target of the meds. They diminish significantly usually upon proper medical intervention. What underlies those symptoms? The data suggests several specific areas of the brain are involved. Work continues to pinpoint precisely the biochemicals and structures in the brain responsible. One’s ability to focus his attention dramatically increases with the introduction of chemicals to those regions. Uncontrollable behavior is mitigated. Millions have found relief. Millions of people have experienced profound improvements in cognitive function. Those making money from manufacturing this life altering med deserve to make money. The vast majority of medical doctors in this country subscribe to the belief that stimulants play a significant role in treating this disorder. They support the research that is examining the importance of neurotransmitters, synapses, blood flow, which bear directly upon this crippling problem.
We are a shame free zone. We are told to avoid personal attacks. Sarcasm is forbidden. Guidelines. When do we step over the line? How can we tell when we go too far?
How are kids who are hyper going to avoid mental labels? Does anyone believe ADHD kids want to act in ways that will bring derision upon them?
Observation, close, prolonged, intense, directed observations of a person’s behavior and an examination of his school records, incorporating teachers input, family interviews, a thorough physical workup plus relevant PET Scans or related test results are sufficient to make an accurate diagnosis Dr. C., aren’t they?
If a person doesn’t have ADHD and he’s given an RX of stimulants to last 3 days because of a misdiagnosis, generally speaking, how much damage to the person can be done? Most people do not have severe reactions. If the diagnosis is accurate and the person responds like most do, and he can fulfill his potential now that he can direct his attention, do you think it is appropriate, as a physician, to try him on an RX for 3 days, Dr. C?
I know what you mean. When it costs a lot to move a new drug all the way to the market, only so many people can afford to do it. It is a messy project necessarily when so much rides on the outcome, I think.
Do you remember the lawsuits and the contradicting medical evidence over the Dow breast implant litigation? Even the editor of the NEJM faced criticism for her interpretation of the evidence.
Dr. C., the slight differences you describe may be where we are having a semantic challenge. I would say if the behavioral differences are slight between normal kids and ADHD kids, there would be no justification to concerned. This is where we part ways I guess. And what you call minor differences in their brains I get, but they add up, don’t they? Seems to me that quite a few tests on various parts of the ADHD brain consistently show differences that suggests an entire network isn’t functioning.
I don’t see tests conducted on unknowns. Their labeling may not be based on the precision we’d like, but even Alan Schwarz supports the reality that ADHD exists. Matthew Herper of Forbes is doing some interesting reporting, btw.
I think most involved in serious work on this matter are doing the best they can with what they have. I don’t think the research can be described fairly as 60 years of trying to justify drugging kids. Do you really believe that Dr.? Wouldn’t it be easier to manufacture and charge a fortune for a placebo with no stimulants and announce it as the answer? Here’s xyz, the replacement for stimulants you’ve all been waiting for? (Come to think of it, that may not be the dumbest idea I ever had!)
That isn’t my goal to con people. I do best I can to learn all I can and to share it.
It wasn’t intended as such. Much condescension does go around here. I think ADHD is something to be proud of. I didn’t realize I was diagnosing anyone, nor that it was forbidden. I can see now why it was viewed that way. If I have been diagnosing others, I certainly wasn’t aware of it and apologize.
Zamboni
I am sure it is. The problem is this. Publishing results of testing opens the door to anyone seeking to dispute the results. If the tests are bogus or the results are or anything is off, it can be shown by anyone in the world who would like to.
I don’t trust anything without verification. I’m a nutcase. I have to toot my own horn here a little. I couldn’t believe what was happening to me could be real. It just couldn’t. If something was too good to be true, it wasn’t. So, I studied everything I thought was substantial by scientists and experts from NEJM and Harvard and so on. I learned quite a bit, challenging everything along the way. The ADHD mind sis a Zambezi machine when something captures its attention. It is unreal. Anyway, I am satisfied that many sincere, dedicated scientists of the first order have more than enough evidence that proves beyond a shadow of doubt the reality of this disorder or trait or whatever it is. And that there are reasons to be hopeful improvements can be made in those who have it.
For most it really does seem like a miracle
I know. I had no expectations when I was diagnosed. I thought they just didn’t realize how brilliant I was. No pill I took was going to make them see it! A test sophisticated and finely tuned enough to sufficiently measure my genius just hadn’t been created yet!
I never knew how much I had missed out on until that first dose. It was like a real miracle. “Beauty I’d always missed with these eyes before… ” it wasn’t just cold hard data I’d failed to process. In a rapid rush and hectic race to keep my head above water, I was so revved up, not much was enjoyable; couldn’t savor the scenery very well at mach 2.
Not condescending at all. I don’t believe having ADHD is a negative, at all. I pointed out positive qualities you have.
It isn’t an informed opinion, Steve and I said that. I said I sensed it, that’s all. And I meant it as something pretty cool. People with ADHD are known for having an uncanny ability to intuit. I found that interesting when I read that years ago because it was true of me. I wondered how the heck would they know that?
Take care Steve. Hope that you continue to do well. I know you are very capable. That’s what I wanted to say. Sorry.
Never said you weren’t qualified. Do you have identifying information about doctors handing out speed like it’s candy? They should go to jail.
I would present your questions to the researchers. They are like NASA scientists seeking diligently answers to life’s mysteries. They list their funding sources. See what they have to say.
Steve, did you have a chance to read the entire article?
I think your attentional deficits are interfering with your analysis. Seriously. They measured both DAT and D2D3 receptive markers in 53 non-medicated adults and 44 control participants. They measured specific binding of PET radioligands…
Dr. C. Would you explain the testing protocols and results to Steve if he has any further questions about this particular study? He doesn’t believe me.
These aren’t hacks doing this research. These guys are at the top of their game and they publish their entire testing history so that it can be judged and replicated or not. JAMA is highly regarded. If you find fault with anything in this study, challenge them. That is what it is here for.
There isn’t really a debate. JAMA Sept 9, 2009 on pathways of dopamine is just one additional source of data confirming what those who have it keep repeating.
This study included 53 adults who never used stimulants.
Women couldn’t vote until 1920 and even then, many men did not recognize their right to do so.
See JAMA, September 9, 2009 Alterations in Brain Dopamine Pathway
53 non-medicated adults with ADHD were used in the testing.
Dr. Corrigan, the replicable outcome of scientific testing is established. There is no disputing it. Clearly, without question, ADHD is flush with significant differences from the rate of metabolism of glucose to the thinning of brain matter in frontal lobes. The markers are coming. We have so much empirical data compared to 40 years ago, if they knew then what is known now, questions about a genuine diagnosis would be moot, today.
The diagnosis sets the prisoner free.
Read Driven To Distraction. Wonderfully written by a Harvard educated M.D. who has it and mild Dyslexia. T’will blow your socks off, guaranteed, or I’ll send you a buck. Which goes to show you, I have no financial interest in promoting the ADHD game.
Re-read the data when you find the time. Some ADHD kids catch up by 15. She says many don’t and they struggle for the rest of their lives. Take a look at the way you reject and accept results from the same study.
I think you have ADHD, Steve. No intention to insult you, at all. I think you manifest a number of the characteristics. Bright, creative, passionate, a strong family link (it seems), big hearted. I sense, and that is all it is is a sense, that you haven’t achieved nearly as much as you hoped and prepared to, worked hard to, dreamed of. I sense that is a deep, deep source of pain that hangs on in your gut and that just doesn’t go away.
What I am trying to say is simple. ADHD is only a disorder when it interfers significantly with a person’s potential. Have symptoms out the wazoo, have 27,906,209 symptoms every day all day. Who cares? You move a long, singing a song. You aren’t exactly going to be Einstein, but you get by and have a few laughs.
Not our boy with ADHD. His life is a long parade of failures, disappointments, underachievement, inexplicable broken dreams. He is the Willy Loman of Willy Lomamville. He’s the guy no one gets. He has what it takes. Bright, personable, energetic, loves to help people. Yet, for some strange, unknown reason, he always takes two steps back after a giant brash one forward.
Judy proved her hypothesis that the frontal lobes mature more quickly in non-ADHD teenagers to the age of 15, when many ADHDers catch up.
Would you mind sharing the names and addresses of 3 of them?
Pet scans reveal the increased flow of neurotransmitters, including dopamine, through the synapses in the brains of ADHDers with medication
Kids in a free academic setting didn’t learn anything, either.
If you trust the results of one observational study of 8 children with ADHD from 40 years ago, before they knew that non-attentional ADHD existed, consider the studies and tests, double blind and controlled, PET, SPECT, MRI scans and more that have become a mountain of information that is indisputable.
You assume the results don’t count because of money, or they yield nothing that holds up under scrutiny because of money. Since when did science dismiss common sense? Wouldn’t the conspiracy to take over the world via drug sales through the drug cartels of Wall Street be more difficult to accept, scientifically?
By far the vast majority of scientists, medical doctors, PhDs, doctors of education and on and on — recognize the symptoms of ADHD and the profound impact drugs have. Honestly, no one really doubts its reality as a disorder and anyone not blind can see how dramatically drugs change people who are out there. It is about semantics but more it’s about sensibilities. You know, I can’t define pornography exactly, but I know it when I see it. That kind of thing. But, in reality, we get closer everyday to unraveling the puzzle. We have so much information from so many sources screaming at us that we must keep working on developing the best treatment modalities. It is a given that it is real, has distinct markers and in most cases treatable.
Read Sue Smalley’s little piece on her ADHD husband. She was a PhD professor at UCLA who has lived intimately with ADHD for 40 years.
I find it fascinating that you and others, people who have never met me and know nothing about me, do know without a trace of doubt, absolutely positively, that I do not have the thing that destroyed my life for many years.
Glad to hear your child responded well to medication. That is wonderful. That’s what it is all about. We don’t drug kids to make money. Parents drug their kids so they can better function.
Drugging children with juvenile diabetes with insulin saves their lives.
Please see Judith Rapoport, M.D., NIMH Child Psychiatry Branch “Brain Matures A Few Years Late in ADHD”
The diagnosis isn’t based on the symptoms. The prevalence of that misconception is astounding. Of course we all have those symptoms or idiosyncrasies to varying degrees.
Dr., Which scientist is conducting research on ADHD to justify drugging kids for profit? Do you have a name and address? She should be fired. IOW, manipulating test protocols to achieve a predetermined outcome for the purpose of deceitful packaging of a product for profit violates the law. She should charged with theft.
Would you name that doctor who hands out speed like candy? Criminal charges should be filed against her immediately.
Why would you connect conducting research on ADHD with making money as your first argument? Take the profit motive consideration out of your analysis, then examine the science.
Dr., many objective scientists see the overwhelming body of evidence that ADHD is a disorder. Although much work needs to done, Smalley, before she retired, amassed sufficient empirical data to be convinced that ADHD is a heavily genetically linked set of characteristics to have her work accepted by independent esteemed scientists.
Yet, there are thousands of tests that prove there are clear differences between those who have it and those who do not. The delay in the maturation by 3 years of portions of the brain in ADHD, see Smalley, UCLA, is a lead in the pursuit to mark the differences. Surely, we don’t stop seeking the science behind what we don’t understand.
Several Nazi big shots were hung for their crimes. Goering cheated and snuck some cyanide because he was refused a proper military execution by a firing squad. Anyway, we had their names and lots of records and eyewitness testimony as evidence to use against them.
Do you know any of the names of those psychiatrists and/or pharmaceutical executives who have committed these atrocities? Credible evidence for their role in committing the atrocities and reliable documentation which describes the exact nature of the atrocities?
Paul Markovitz believes 80 mgs of Prozac to treat BPD is the best dosage based on the literature. Have you found psychotherapy to be helpful when you work with a patient with BPD? What if he is engaged in suicidal behavior? Are you familiar with the work of Dr. Markovitz?
I suppose treating brain cancer with chemicals is a recognized tool within the field of medicine to attack the cancer. Something like a “critical mass” of cancer cells within the brain likely interferes with the individuals mood and cognitive functioning, is safe to say. Why do we rely upon chemicals to fight these cancerous cells, which if successful, could restore one’s mood and thinking abilities, if the health of neurons doesn’t depend upon and cannot be restored through the use of drugs?
Brain tissue is just that. It is composed of living cells. Living cells break down. Living cells die and become diseased, infected, old and worn. How is it possible, given the marvels of modern science, that they would exist outside the realm of all we know about biology and chemistry and electricity? Without a sufficent supply of sodium ions, dendritic activity falters.
Are you saying that the unique constellation of our temperament, our genetic make up, cannot be flawed?
Would you mind giving examples from the literature? Are any valid scientific studies supporting the long term benefits of SSRIs, for example? If reduced dosages are effective in the short term and are not harmful, should they be used?