Thursday, December 8, 2022

Comments by mollymchugh

Showing 30 of 30 comments.

  • Thanks much for that Dr. Breggin, puts to rest any of the ‘pro-Healy’ support above which did not seem legit in the first place.

    Again, I’ve shared this article on a FB group discussion about ECT – in this case the second group about ME ( called “How do you Sleep at Night Wesseley & Fink” – which is trying to help the International fight for the release of Danish psychiatric prisoner Karina Hansen and for ME/CFS/CFIDS to not be classified as psychosomatic so that physician sociopaths like Healy et. all. can then inflict abuse such as forced drugging, electroshock, etc.).

    There are online trolls trying to promote ECT in the ME community, testing the waters to see if there are sufferers who will consent to treatment it seems, or trying to test public opinion in the wake of the psychiatric kidnappings of Hansen and American Justina Pelletier (another neurologically-based illness sufferer who thankfully is home recovering after being made much worse while incarcerated).

    It is like they know their power and charade of lies is melting and they are desperately trying to regain a grasp hold to be able to continue their tortuous practices and deceptive medical treatments.

    Thank god few respond favorably, and most are now much more informed about electroshock who seemed to really know nothing before (these are people dealing with chronic medical condtions, most not having psychiatric-diganosed illnesses).

    Have learned a ton, attending one of the protests and will speak out as I am able. Molly

  • If you say ‘support voluntary ECT’ – I think you are missing a key point in this whole protest.

    NO ONE wants ECT to be used as a medical treatment for anything – it is TORTURE. It is ABUSE. It has NO MEDICAL basis to be administered and is used on very vulnerable, ill people who are not in a position to make such a decision.

    The point is – it should be STOPPED. There is no ‘voluntary’ option being supported here – the reality is most who get it are manipulated into getting it (if not forced), are not informed of the RISKS and HARM that comes from it.

    ECT is brain damage. Damaging someone’s brain is NOT legitimate medical treatment. It is ABUSE.

    Please don’t support if you don’t understand the premise here.

    My thoughts, Molly

  • Thanks for that Katie, and I am sure your experience and work as a psychiatric nurse was not only difficult at times, but heart-breaking.

    I appreciate your concern for the child victims of ECT like all here are repulsed by. And it seems you are working in good conscience but to support ANYTHING Dr. Healy does when he does NOT acknowledge the harmful effect of ECT on it’s victims (some may report improvement, sometimes that is due to brain damage, others may have had a ‘placebo’ effect or simply a change in chemical functioning that made them feel ‘better’ i.e. some report becoming manic, others depressed after ECT, etc.) is not only suspicious but of concern.

    ECT should be banned – for any human being. The thousands of dollars (millions…) that those who practice it gain should be directed toward a search for new, effective ‘help/treatments’ for those suffering severe depression.

    It is a horrible illness, I was hospitalized 4 times during my 20s, I know what I am referring to.

    In friendship, Molly

  • The woman victim sharing on FB wrote more:

    “People don’t understand what this did to me. I can’t read and retain. I have a hard time understanding things can’t drive or take the bus as I get really confused. I am on ssdi and don’t see how I can ever work again. I am not the same person……”

    Is unethical and a form of abuse, not treatment.

    Toddlers? I am at a loss for words. Evil? Satanic? What – how can anyone justify such a thing?

  • They may have improved from empathic care – other treatments for depression… taking a vacation to the Caribbean…

    The issue is it causes brain damage, has no scientific credibility as to it’s therapeutic effect (proof) and those who most promote it do not acknowledge the harm it can cause – do not inform pateints of long-term potential consequences.

    Of course not, most would not agree to the treatment or force it on someone they have true concern for.

    Toddlers being given ECT? What does that tell you?

    Can’t process that. I really cannot.

  • From the discussion on ECT on the Facebook group for Bipolar I mention above, one woman shared her story and long-term consequences from getting ECT:

    ” While in a deep depressive mode and quite frankly out of my mind I agreed to this treatment. My experience was horrible. I was a zombie for over a year afterwards. Lost many important long term events in my life. I believe it damaged me permanently. Just my experience. I would not recommend it.”

    Incredibly sad.

  • Sorry, but I re-read all the above – and now know Dr. Healy’s work as a shock doc radical proponent who refuses to acknowledge medical evidence and testimony of damage from shock survivors and who unethically fails to inform his patients and in readers of his pro-shock books of the risks associated with the procedure – and see no validity to your reply to Dr. Breggin’s statements above.

    The more Dr. Healy and all his supporters like yourself can be called out and put to the litmus test of public scrutiny (since he seems to avoid much medical scrutiny for his negligent approach to treating severely depressed, vulnerable human beings) the better.

    I work as an editor… just giving my two cents to your ‘concerns’ above.

  • Thank you so much for this – I listened to the interview, what a brilliant guy Ted is and I learned much, things I actually wish I didn’t need to learn – that they are shocking toddlers in Australia… it is unbelievable. I can’t even process it. What could a toddler do to prompt such abuse? Who are these sadistic trained professionals? Where trained. Satanic cult would be my only thought, they are programmed for evil, lack a conscience – honestly can’t think of other answer.

    And the money – I believe Dr. Breggin said $10k per treatment. Ten thousand dollars?

    I am on some FB groups for bipolar (what has happened there is ridiculous, most are NOT bipolar, but being diagnosed as such as pressured to take antipsychotic meds which then causes more mental/physical problems, and then they get prescribed more meds – is insane) and there is talk about ECT on many.

    Many have no clue to how damaging it is, or that the gain if there is one is very short term. I just shared this today – link to this article – on one group where someone was asking about getting ECT.

    Thank you for the resource mentioned above, now I can send folks to your web page about ECT and hopefully it will encourage them to think twice, protect a loved one and search for other answers to their health crisis.

  • Not to be a killjoy and I understand the placebo effect, but is that really true that it is how most antidepressants work – of course when they are thought to be helping or effective. ???

    If the person gets worse, we would not call that a placebo effect…

    How could that be proven? Any substance taken by the body is going to have an effect on the body so to claim these powerful drugs (how powerful and dangerous depending on the dosage) when someone claims they have helped them gave a ‘placebo’ effect seems to me very suspect – and not very scientific or rationale.

    There is no way to know how it really affected the patient. Some do report improvement, but we all know here the problem primarily with these drugs is that then they are encouraged to stay on them, for the rest of their lives, etc. etc. as the improvement was due to the drug fixing their supposed (though not scientifically proven as this thread points out over and over again) ‘chemical imbalance’ in the brain.

    Yet the drugs may have given an ‘improved chemical’ state in some form, and helped a person out of whatever ‘chemical state’ they were in that created a severe depression (no need to explain what that is like here or symptoms of). You can’t claim it was ‘placebo effect’ – as a chemical was ingested, not an actual placebo.

    In my humble opinion, we need to go back to natural forms of ‘creating a chemical’ effect in the brain to try and lift someone out of a severe depression (vegetative state, actively suicidal whatever) and study these such as mentioned above (can’t recall now, top of thread… amino acid I believe), tryptophan, thyroid issues, gut infections, etc. etc.

    There is much research already, but it is always over-ridden by the profit-driven pharmaceutical-medical model and the fact many of these ‘cures’ or ‘treatments’ cannot be patented and then marketed, sold and make more of our beloved billionaires.

    Sigh. My dream. I know what helped me, and I do have a serious genetically-based mental illness – Manic Depression. The treatments were mostly natural and immune-supporting but synthetic thyroid hormone (Synthoid) the key to what was prescribed and lessened severe suicidal rapid cycling and depressive episodes.

  • I appreciate the author John Read’s take on psychotropic meds, or at least in this case antidepressnt medications, and the expertise he has with regards to the subject matter.

    And appreciate much his rationale for that view (in article) and then the application of his thoughts to the tragedy of the recent pilot on meds and resulting plane crash – that not taking into account the psychotropic meds the suicidal pilot was on is lacking in insight and understanding of the adverse these medications have been proven to elicit in normal folks and those suffering from mental distress.

    I recently came across this – horrifically and tragically sad – article that shows almost every mass shooting in the U.S. over the past 20 years has an agressor that was taking antidepressant medication. Most are also teenagers.

    Clearly Mr. Read knows what he is talking about and this study backs up his thinking.

  • That is SUCH EXCELLENT information – I am not being sarcastic, sorry, just a huge ‘click’ as to a possible connection (that is verifiable and legitimate) between chronic fatigue syndrome (leaky gut huge in that massive mess of an illness, now called ME by advocates) and mood states that is NOT ever looked at by physicians, except ENVIRONMENTAL ILLNESS doctors – amazing scientists that they are.

    It makes sense and will not cure everyone (healing gut, diet changes, etc.) of depression or mood imbalances but can be a huge beginning step on path to feeling better and as important – STAYING WELL.

    If you know that healing nutritional imbalances, clearing out candida and other gut infections (with medications, diet changes, nutritional supplements) helped make you better then anyone who is sane – as most are when in a feel good normal state – will maintain a healthy lifestyle to keep feeling good and staying well.

  • What an awesome write-up and simplified overview of how these things work… as a layperson I catch glimpses, but never having worked in government don’t really have a clue to the larger picture like you describe so well, what factors come into play and how complicated it is.

    I thought ‘Gore’ when reading the above, and crazy fun Tipper. What a different world/country/mental health care and other system we would have if our fascist Supreme Court at the time had not intervened in our democratic process to assign the presidency to George W.

    Maybe some day we will have a new opportunity to progress, but I – in my limited view admittedly – only see years and years more of a fight to stop atrocities from occurring (more war, the elimination of social security, etc.) and the fascist trend this country has been on.

    Let’s hope for more leverage from the 2016 upcoming election. The alternative is incredibly frightening, to anyone who understands abuses that go on, are going on.

    Targeted individuals, innocent people being tortured… to name one little one.

  • Thanks for posting Rob Wipond, is a great topic. I get they are stuck between a rock and a hard place as they have to be paid if they are going to practice (not accepting insurance means they cannot help many who need the service the most… just those who are well off and can pay out of pocket) – and at least the fact they speak out openly about why they oppose the current DSMV and would like to change it to make better is positive.

    I’ve just joined MAD a month or so ago, can’t believe how much I have learned, is a great resource.

  • Good point and note (I just read in article via FB, can’t find right now) that there ARE psychiatrists being held accountable, sued for medical malpractice such as some cases involving prescribing psychotropic meds to children who were then harmed. Of course unnecessarily harmed.

    So take heart, some of the fighting and hard work of all the conscious objectors here (folks from what I understand have been fighting this fight for decades) has not gone without victories.

    Let’s work towards more victories as we work for massive systemic change.

  • Why oh why do we not have more trained psychiatrists like Dr. Wallace? We can only hope others support his work and get off their lazy professional drug-company controlled arses to think like the scientists they are suppose to be and act in good conscience in treating their patients – not like the pathetic pharmeacutical-industry puppets they are now.

    Thank you Dr. Wallace for all your dedicated work and leadership.

  • Happy year 50 and love this post. The quote from Henry Miller I had never read and the way you incorporate it into your post beautiful – never knew the guy was so kind and encouraging to others lol.

    I want to now read more links, you sound so healthy mentally and at peace with yourself what a wonderful accomplishment but also very inspiring.

    best, Molly

  • Apologies, was at a public computer and rushed, the above quote was incomplete, of course referring to your talk of ‘moral therapy, Quakers. spontaneous remissions, etc’ – the full quote would have made my following remarks a bit clearer. Ridiculous to use that as some wondrous time to follow or look at as an example of future changes.

  • Hi Robert W. and what an excellent write-up, gave me a fresher course on things I learned many (over 25) years ago (reasons for closing of asylums, etc.) and what a peach that Lieberman sounds like 🙂 Sad is the fact he thinks the American public is dumb enough to believe the story he is telling. I think it should be considered professional misconduct the fact he is intentionally distorting the truth and the facts – he obviously has access to the same information you, I and others do here – makes you wonder how he made it through medical school. That is a scary thought.

    All psychiatrists (on west coast so just got lucky?) I saw when suffering severe illness states of BP-1 disorder were not arrogant, insufferable arses but kind, competent, caring and ‘trying to help’ docs. Meds saved my life a few times (antipsych/tranquilizers whatever it was I was given) stabilizing me after a manic psychosis on a few occasions and keeping the few hospitalizations I had to no more than the legally required 14 day hold.

    I know how lucky I am, especially with some of the horror stories of the past, and even those going on today such as the case of Justina Pelletier, other Boston hospital case ‘Walpole couple’ and this one I learned of today of a Danish girl who had severe M.E. was forcibly removed from home, imprisioned in mental ward for 2 years, made worse (like Justina), family not allowed to visit, think she will die soon after being declared brain damage and moved to a nursing facility:

    Absolutely horrific.

    One thing above really bothered me (sure I would come up with more but will not read it!)…. “whereas antipsychotics, antidepressants and mood stabilizers reduced the symptoms of illness without producing much of an effect on healthy people.” – quoted from book. What planet does this trained, licensed physician live on? What anti-psychotic or other psychotropic med would not affect the physical/mental state of anyone who took it normal or under distress? He should lose his medical license for stating such an untruth.

    But I have to add what bothered me as much was the following offered in your excellent critique:

    “Historians have determined that 35 to 80 percent of all first-episode patients in those early asylums were discharged within a year, and the majority were discharged as having been cured (which meant that their disturbing behavior and psychotic thoughts had largely disappeared.)”

    Yes, I am sure that is just what happened… as we know how good moral people do good things – please and spare me. It couldn’t possibly be that much rape, torture, adopting out babies of teen mothers (rape victims?) and much else went on while hospitalized for a year? Heavens no, these were religious folk. That many of the incarcerated were probably victimized by the rigid set of ‘moral behaviour’ they were suppose to achieve and put in an asylum for ‘correction’.

    Is as bad as Lieberman’s misleading rhetoric, and just as dangerous. In my book I just published on Amazon “Bipolar 1 Disorder – How to Survive and Thrive” I use the story of Frances Farmer to illustrate the difference between her horrendous 5 year incarceration and what I experienced. I actually even spent a couple of weeks at the same lovely hospital in Washington State, and was not tortured, raped, abused as she was.

    My bipolar was not being treated as a ‘moral failure’ like her Manic Depression was in the 1940’s – I was given medication and thankfully had a positive outcome. I am as against the long-term use of psychotropic meds but do not think all applications and uses are ‘evil’ or intended to harm, though of course misused, over-prescribed and patient’s not given adequate information on the damage they can cause.

    What is the religious-bias going on at Boston Hospital these days? What programming led way for the abuses that have occurred? My guess? Good Christian folks. Mormon? A mix? How are those who have committed the crimes above and millions of others from the past justifying their actions?

    They think they are doing ‘good’, no? They of course are good people as they are moral and therefore superior. God’s work maybe? That’s a biggie. Good Christian-convert George Bush reading his bible and hearing the ‘voice of God’ to illegally, irreprehensibly invade Iraq.

    I could go on, will stop, think my point is clear and a valid one. Hope it causes others who like to wax poetic about ‘moral’ values and the return back to times past to think twice about what they are saying and the validity of that idea.

    In respect, Molly

  • Thanks for that B – sorry if I was being over-sensitive. Shock should be BANNED. There is NO evidence to support it’s medical use, and even the best of studies say the positive results are temporary (read up a bit this week, they say 4 weeks of improvement is the norm).

    There is abundance evidence of its HARM. And again, a just society does NOT inflict harm on others knowingly, especially the vulnerable members of society for the primary motive of profit-making – what drives the ECT industry imho.

    I feel it is sadistic in nature, in its inception and in its current use. Should be BANNED with other treatments studied better, new alternatives developed.

    Maybe sadder still is those who participate in the practice, feel much like I do but do not stand up for their beliefs, do not have the courage to protest.

  • Hi B,

    Please don’t take your anger out against me… the above was not in support of ECT – I am not a proponent, obviously. I was just stating that it is thought to have a ‘helpful’ effect on some due to memory loss… that is my understanding. I am against the procedure personally, I wish there were better treatments for severe depression.

    Suicidal depression that in non-responsive to medication is a horrible illness to experience – I know, I have been severely depressed when younger. One of my biggest fears when dealing with those states of bipolar illness was that I would be drugged against my will and forced ECT.

    I am very fortunate that did not happen. I wish others have not had the experience of being harmed by it.

    take care, Molly

  • I think the problem may be that the procedure has been ‘humanized’ to seem innocuous – no more hankerchiefs in mouth but anesthesia given, etc. so is not seen as ‘brutal’ anymore.

    And the simple reality that the memory loss which is a primary part of the treatment results sadly ‘helps’ some as it is a form of psychic sedation, erasing (temporarily or long-term) memories that may have been the cause of the depression or psychosis to start with.

    I don’t judge… and do not condemn anyone for saying they were helped by ECT it is just that there are more humane ways to treat mental illness and it is a procedure that was so barbaric in its inception, which makes it suspect in general. Only sadists inflict harm on others without acknowledging harmful effects… victimizing others is never ‘ok’ in a caring, just society.

  • Hi Steve & I may need a ride, have to sell car LOL Just teasing, send me an email to connect and I hope I can make it on that day- molly @ Nice to see a community of folks supporting safe medical care for all, I am not a ‘hater’ of shrinks or psychiatry, just someone aware of abuses that have been done (some current) and want to be a part of the community that works to prevent the re-occurance of these atrocities.

  • This is absolutely excellent and I am in Portland, Oregon so will participate. I can not NOT participate, as I owe my ability to refuse ECT (begged not to have it actually) and to have it not be thought of as a ‘good’ form of treatment (it’s supporters say that it is used as a last ditch measure, when other treatments fail, yet that does not mean it should still be used… ) during some periods of severe depression during my 20’s to activists like yourself and many others.

    I was sickened to read of your history (just joined MAD), is amazing the recovery and life you have lived… and wanted to send you a private note as I was diagnosed Manic Depression in 1986 (San Francisco, CA) and learned about ECT and how many had fought to have it stopped (Berkely).

    I’m a long story (all of us are!) so will just do a quick add that I have written of my 30 years living with BP-1 disorder — being un-responsive to many meds (though stabilized me when was manic and had to be hospitalized), discrimination and harrassment I was subjected to by licensed health care providers (Ph.D’sat the University of San Francisco nursing school), experiences with involuntary comittiment plus the ‘other side of life’ ourside of the ‘illness realm’ such as alternative things I did that helped me to get better, positive life experiences, work, school and joy I’ve been fortunate to have had in my life, etc. in my book just published on Amazon: Bipolar 1 Disorder – How to Survive and Thrive.

    Feel ok plugging that due to the topic, will definitely be a part of the Portland protest. Thank you for sharing, Molly