Wednesday, February 24, 2021

Comments by FeelinDiscouraged

Showing 1410 of 1415 comments. Show all.

  • Is this site for psychiatric survivors, Bob?

    Or is it for psychiatrists and the self identifying “mentally ill?” There is a very real conflict of interest between these groups, since one supports business as usual and the other wants basic human rights that others take for granted–and the “consumers” have given up on.

    I bought a copy of Anatomy of an Epidemic for my dad’s birthday gift. I appreciate the fine craftsmanship you put into it.

    I also appreciate your candor in posting the above remark. It helps the bulk of your readership understand how you truly feel about us.

  • By “providers” do you mean psychiatrists, Sera? They should be held legally responsible for mass shootings if the shooter is being “treated” by them IMHO.

    We know the mother smothered her toddler because she was bipolar.
    How do you know she was bipolar?
    Because only a person with bipolar would smother a toddler.

    Brilliant deduction. And a perfect example of the Circular Reasoning Fallacy.

  • No Steve. No one on this site has said, “Hey, we need to team up with NAMI, SAHMSA, (fill in psych group) for Mental Health awareness week and go stigma busting together by wearing T-shirts enscribed with our diagnoses at the park.”

    But we have had folks who work for these places writing here.

    I’m not just referring to Corinna or Sera Davidow who make uneasy alliances in the hopes of helping those who can’t escape or are scared to right now.

    Here’s an example.

    There was a snarky article by a “mental health” professional–not a psychiatrist–pointing out how unreasonable anti-psychiatry folks were by quoting the most over the top statements made mostly by the most annoying and eccentric members. Not technically a Strawman argument but not representative of our movement.

    I get it. He and the others hold all the cards. Without some miracle we will never be free from our oppressors. Not very classy to rub our noses in it though! And it doesn’t make it right or just.

  • Amen! The reason many psychiatrists hate this site is it threatens their absolute power, prestige, and lucrative careers. Anything that challenges their power and might will have a “bad reputation” with them.

    I bet slave owners in the 19th century hated abolitionist magazines for that reason. And the periodicals didn’t try to win them over as I recall.

  • Positive PSYCHOtherapists drive me bonkers.

    Coming into the dark windowless psych ward sipping their latte while we’re suffering caffeine headaches.

    “Hello kiddies! Is my luscious latte half full or half empty? We need to appreciate how suuny and wonderful our lives are. My own life is full of blessings. Tee hee.

    “My hubby wubby just got a big promotion at the company he manages. Money had been a little tight since we bought that brand new house in the gated community, but now our darling angel Jessica can continue her ballet lessons.”

    You sit in silence. All you have awaiting your release is a roach infested HUD efficiency you would be ashamed to invite friends to. But that’s okay cause you don’t have any friends but the other designated losers segregated from society too. Also living in squalid poverty with no spouse or kids and rejected by their families of origin.

    You sit as Perky Pam the therapist lectures you on your negative attitudes. You wonder if the extra days you would get for throwing Perky Pam’s latte in her insensitive, smiling face would be worth it.

    Why y’all so negative? Must be cause you’re crazy!

  • To you professionals I’m sorry for all the incivility you experience here. Though some comments may be hurtful, perhaps such incivility should not be surprising in light of the treatment many of us who have been labeled as “disordered” have received at the hands of your colleagues and your profession.

    To quote Shakespeare: If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die?

    To all my fellow survivors I urge you to take the moral high road. Ignore any sneers and put downs you may encounter here. Perhaps the professional isn’t even aware of the tone he/she is taking. If you can’t say something nice don’t comment. Scroll past the hurtful comments or avoid the commenting section altogether.

  • Eliminate the insanity defense and psychiatrists will lose their civil clout. No other doctors have these powers. Nor should MDs have powers granted only to judges and elected officials.

    That would also severely diminish if not end “stigma” too since an SMI label would cease to mean dangerous criminal in the public’s perception.

  • My sentiments exactly. Remember the old cartoon Bloom County with “Bill the Cat for President”?

    “He has been a handicapped, union, minority worker. He has been a pro-choice, Southern Baptist, vegan, anti-nukes gun nut. He has been a pro-life, Methodist, animal rights activist who supports business.

    “Bill the Cat for President. He has been one of us.”

    I guess this site wants to be Bill the Cat. Why would the pro-psych crowd WANT to come here anyhow? Wouldn’t they prefer NAMI, Healthy Place, the APA website, Psychology Today, New York Times, Huffington Post or any of those other 1,000,000,000,000 sites and forums where they can tout their view unopposed and shut US up?

    If MIA wants to compete with the pro-psych crowd and get fans from NAMI, etc. by sacrificing their regulars they can blame themselves if MIA goes belly up from attempting to be all things to all men. This is not a threat but a prediction–one I don’t want to come true.

  • I wish you well Steve. I’m cool with your metaphor of sheriff since communities need law and order to protect the innocent. I just hope you’ll hold the Psych Experts to the same standards as us Crazy Peons. The idea that psychiatrists are oppressed victims in need of protection sounds like the movement Sir Giles Wellesley is spear heading over the pond.

    I know. You need to do your duty. Many psychiatrists aren’t truly evil but ignorant or–according to Dr. Pies–not well informed.

    For everyone else, if any TAC or AOT apologist comes here, spouting traumatizing crap, ignore the jerk. Scroll past the hateful, stupid comments so you don’t have to read them. I notice Give Me Your King is no longer among us, enlightening us with his brilliant views on how we should be locked up and sterilized. There’s always something to be thankful about. 🙂

  • Read an article in Xojane by a woman claiming to be happy over her psychiatric label of “clinical depression.” Her main reason? She felt she needed an excuse for being unhappy. What?!!!

    She still went to work. Her SSRIs didn’t make much difference. But because she had a “brain disease” she could excuse herself for not being ecstatically happy 24/7. “Please excuse Janie for not smiling today. She has a mental illness. ~Dr. Smith”

    Why does our culture think everyone has to be an upbeat, thick-skinned extrovert? Putting a guilt trip on someone for not smiling all the time can cause extreme sadness called depression. We may encourage physical diversity, yet through psychiatry’s quixotic quest for “mental health” and a “normal brain” we only allow one kind of personality. Very extroverted, conscientious, low in openness, and low in sensitivity. (I prefer that term to neurotic.)

  • Rational complains of being silenced here. But he isn’t–however many of us choose to scroll past his reiterations of the Same Tired Arguments.

    None of us would receive such a civil reception if we posted dissenting views on NAMI or Healthy Place. We are SO MEAN to people like Rational here it would make a houseplant weep. *Sob!*

    Seizures and random destruction of brain cells are good for you. Science says. Just shut up and enjoy it!

    I have never been shocked, but when a shock survivor tells me it’s horrifying I believe her or him.

    It angers me when ignorant people who have never experienced shock and never will preach how wonderful it it. I noticed a bunch of not-too-well-educated “mental health” workers (C.N.A./LPN’s/M.A’s) praising it all the sudden. Truly scary. Like something from The Manchurian Candidate. Maybe their own brain cells had been decimated.

  • I have had “mental health” underlings pressure me to date guys I found unattractive if not repulsive. They would get mad at me, accuse me of being stuck up and judgmental.

    They would remind me I was no better than the others. And our “mental illnesses” meant we had so much in common–only another “bipolar” could understand me. A therapist actually told me that. We’re all alike after all! 😛

    Then they say, “You’re not your illness.” Hmm. Someone can’t keep the narrative straight.

  • I want to make some graphs of my own.

    1. A line graph. One dark, solid line for the number of mass shootings in America. Several lighter, divided lines for numbers of various psych drugs consumed.

    2. A pie chart divided to show how people get diagnosed and enter the mental health system. X% who got in through “losing it” for no easily discernible cause. Y% who were severely traumatized from rape or veterans with battle fatigue. Z% who took SSRIs for depression, nerves or off label purposes and wound up with nice little Bipolar labels. And we mustn’t forget kids who start out by fidgeting in class, get put on ritallin and are accused of bipolar as young adults.

    3. A bar chart depicting life expectencies of those diagnosed with schizophrenia and bipolar throughout the past hundred years. Contrasting those in the 1900’s with the 1960’s and the present when all these Safe and Effective Treatments are so readily available. Whether we want them or not.

  • Maybe people could privately rip apart DSM manuals for catharsis. But that could be expensive.

    Maybe doll up a metropolitan phone book to look like a DSM book and rip it apart. I have torn up outdated phone books. Great release of angry energy!

    I am looking for a discount copy of the DSM 5. Knowing the 300 insults they call diagnoses would be grist for my satire.

    Most people who think psychiatry is legitimate have no idea what that book contains. Funny how embarrassed top ranking shrinks have been by its contents. 🙂

    The truth shall set you free.

  • Puzzle can’t tell right from wrong. She would never knowingly harm someone without cause.

    Unlike gifted human beings who use their intelligence and social standing to lord it over others–knowing right from wrong but rationalizing it or ignoring whatever shreds of conscience they still have.

  • “Antidepressants” appear to interfere with the natural release of endorphins when people exercise. They did trials on 3 groups. One on Zoloft, one just exercised. The third group did both.

    The exercise only group came out on top. Next the Zoloft plus exercise. And the Zoloft only on the bottom.

  • For what it’s worth I don’t see the anti-suicide movement by the current psychiatric system to be about affirming human life, but rather control. When using human beings as guinea pigs for brain drugs becomes less profitable they will welcome physician assisted suicide. On psychiatry’s own terms.

    Remember the “mentally ill” have no real say in the “treatment” they receive. The nature of the alleged disorder renders consent irrelevant. How convenient for exasperated family members and other caretakers!

    Aunt Betty’s refusal to get a lethal injection proves how truly sick she is. Obviously she fails to realize the severity of her “illness.” Must have anosognosia.

    Be very afraid!

  • Dr. K., I only say the drugs don’t stop killing sprees. The drugs called “anti-psychotics” have caused me thoughts of insane violence; I overrode these bizarre impulses by sitting on my hands–literally–alone in a dark room till the fit would pass. At least I was the only one who suffered. 🙂

    But why should anyone suffer?

    Not everyone in that situation would choose to act as I did. Part of the reason I kept toying with the idea of suicide was my fear of killing others. Self murder seemed better even if I went to Hell. Often I doubted I had a soul to damn.

    According to church theology I did, but the way fellow Christians treated me was inconsistent. They acted like I was a soulless monster. Normals have souls–but the “mentally ill” do not.

    Someone should ask Rick Warren if the “mentally ill” have souls. He acts like he believes otherwise!

  • No one asks why the shootings have increased while more psych drugs are consumed than ever.

    The way I try to explain it is mind altering drugs can cause violence. If someone in heroin withdrawal commits murders no one says, “He should have listened to his dealer and stayed on his meds.” Street drugs are “bad medicine” remember.

  • You may disagree with the NRA’s ideology but they are privately funded by individuals. Not gun manufacturers. My dad belongs; he’s a retired clergyman. Not the CEO of some rifle making company. (Can’t name one off the top of my head.)

    I’m angry at the NRA president for saying “All the mentally ill are monsters and should be locked up.” This did not score him points–even with NAMI or SAHMSA. He’s pretty ignorant. Does he think locking up 20% of the population is feasible? And what if the APA declares gun ownership to be a “symptom” of various “mental illnesses” in the DSM 6?

  • A lot of people insist they have a mental illness. At some level do they like the idea they have no control over their actions and can’t be held accountable?

    The way our society functions now, the masses believe “normal” people have free will. “Schizos” and “bipolars” don’t. Either the random chemical reactions in the skull cause wanton mayhem and violence or the pills take over transforming evil Mr. Hyde into peaceful Dr. Jekyll. No real person–just biologically based insanity or drugs.

    The whole premise of psychiatry caused me existential angst when I believed it. I get mad at those who refuse to think and mindlessly buy whatever pop culture sells. But at least I have seen the light. Drugs or no drugs, locked up or at large–my knowledge provides a peace no shrink can steal. 🙂

  • Short term, usually not. But no mainstream psychiatrist limits the time period they prescribe the stuff.

    Btw, I think sometimes neuroleptics do have benefits as emotional pain killers. But long term usage of massive quantities of morphine is a very bad idea. And claiming they cure”chemical imbalances” is a lie.

    Assume for the sake of argument, chemical imbalances in the brain cause extreme states. That still doesn’t justify using drugs as a long term fix. Why? They have no idea what they are trying to fix. For all psychiatrists know they could be making the imbalance worse rather than better. Most human brain chemicals have yet to be discovered according to Peter Breggin. Pretty presumptuous to fix something when you can’t see the crack.

    I MAY have cancer. In its early stages I wouldn’t feel discomfort. So maybe they should remove random bodily organs and subject me to weekly chemo and radiation treatments for the rest of my life. Sounds like a plan.

    And when my hair falls out and I keep puking–say “It must be the cancer. Can’t be the chemo. It’s perfectly safe and effective.”

  • I agree. Yet nearly all the health professionals, “loving” family members, and even some grateful consumers swear the stuff is magically effective.

    I see the shuffles, flat expressions, vacant eyes, and inability to function. I have also experienced all the above and more. Are others blind or just dismissive of things they don’t like or that contradict TV?

  • When slavery officially ended the newly freed citizens did need help. Many continued living like slaves as sharecroppers. Racism got worse–not better. The KKK was started.

    Northerners promised the ex-slaves “five acres and a mule” since they might get the vote and the Yankee demagogues wanted it. Sadly land and the 19th century equivalent to tractors never materialized.

  • You claim I insult folks on neuroleptics?Speaking as a no longer stupified ex-zombie I disagree strongly. Everyone I know who has come off those things has an increase in IQ. Sometimes 20 points or more.

    Almost everyone who takes psych drugs has free will issues. Either they are bullied by brute force (court ordered) or thoroughly deceived as I was. Many quit the drugs cold turkey because they’re miserable rather than having a paradigm shift. They experience withdrawal, get locked up, put on 2 or 3 times the drugs and “deteriorate.” The Myth of Decompensation is born.

    If I said people who had been beaten over the head repeatedly suffered brain damage and you swore it was fun and enjoyable for them–in addition to bolstering their cognitive skills–would I be insulting them? By criticizing physical battery I’m insulting the victims. Uh huh.

    Many folks who wind up labeled and drugged who are smart were that way to begin with. I have heard reports from NAMI about how adult kids were helped. They started out as college honor students. But thanks to the wonders of psychiatry they can now wash dishes unassisted–almost. Wow! A real improvement. According to NAMI.

  • Good point. A lot of us are physically disabled due to psychiatric damage. I count myself among the “lucky ones” since I came off my Effexor unusually fast and am much better after just six months.

    More functional already than when drugged. Keep the place clean with little effort. Never could on my “cocktail” of psych drugs. Keeping my blog more regularly. I plan on looking for work soon.

    I give myself one year to get off disability.

    Btw, it is disgusting folks like me have to live at tax payer expense. But tax payers seem happy with that–as a collective–since they want us drugged and/or institutionalized. If they wanted the waste to end they’d fight psychiatry.

    Serves them right to lose money on the deal!

  • Two problems.

    1. Discrimination. Psychiatric labels lead to “social disability.” See a shrink, get an SMI label and no one will ever hire you again.

    2. Long term drug use causes real disabilities. These poisons wreak havoc on the brain, central nervous system, and every bodily organ.

    I’m working to overcome those problems by building up my health again. My digestive tract has sustained the most damage. As far as getting around the discrimination and transportation issues I see no alternative to trying to make a living with the online gig economy.

    If I succeed I plan on hiring myself out as a consultant to help others escape dependency on the MI System by freelancing too.

  • I was very suicidal for years. Here’s why.

    1. I was sick of being owned by the mental illness center. So thankful I don’t get “services” I don’t want from them anymore. Not just the drugs (which themselves were an exquisite torture) but the infantalizing and telling me I won’t ever succeed.
    2. I believed I was a vile subhuman monstrosity.
    3. I feared my “meds” would quit working and I would murder innocent people. Seriously. I thought killing myself was the lesser evil. Heroic if you think about it.

    Leaving the Mental Illness System, coming off their drugs, and rejecting stigma (my psychiatric label) has given me a new lease on life. That’s why I say anosognosia saves lives!

  • Wow! Did use Real Science to prove folks who kill themselves become angels? Actually no theologian believes dead folks become angel.

    It has been proven beyond all shadow of a doubt that chemical imbalances are real, psychiatry cures discrimination (stigma), and suicides turn into angels. All proven by hard science in a lab somewhere. Please don’t pester us for links–cause it’s there.

    They watch too much television. All their knowledge of science comes from drug commercials and their theology of the afterlife from Saturday morning cartoons.

  • A lot of shrinks here wanted to euthenize “patients” too. Just didn’t have the guts to go through with it. Sterilizing was carried out however.

    For now they have called a halt to killing us or encouraging suicides. Slowly poisoning the “unfit” is much more profitable.

    The major premise behind Psychiatry is not just that genetic disorders exist. There’s Down Syndrome, Huntington’s, Sickle Cell Anemia to name a few. The idea is that all bad behavior is purely genetic. Good genes make morally upright, ethical people. Bad genes mean the reverse.

    Hence the link between Psychiatry and Eugenics. The latter is also about weeding out the “unfit.”

  • If you notice how some commenters fight tooth and nail defending these stigmatizing labels you wind up scratching your head. Why do you WANT to be hopelessly insane/broken/dangerous?

    1. They’re getting the Good Stuff now. Dr. Awesome-Sauce is giving out uppers more freely than his office mints.

    2. It gives them freedom to act like jerks to all around them. “I can’t help myself. My Bipolar made me do it.” Yep. Just like Dr. Strangelove’s hand.

    3. They don’t have to do anything now except go to adult preschool (day treatment) then go home and binge watch TV. Who wants to take responsibility of your life when you can loaf and let Big Brother and his twin Dr. Frankenstein take care of you.

    4. They’re a big fish in a small pond. Having climbed to the top by being “perfect patients” they enjoy a sort of prestige over the “not-so-good patients.” By leaving the MI system they would be a Nobody.

    5. They’re afraid. Been there. Done that. I questioned the MI System for maybe 5 years before screwing up my courage to leave. It also took a while for an opportunity to materialize.

    That last one though…I always liked the idea that I wasn’t sick/crazy/evil/murderous. Why anyone loves the idea of being hopelessly evil and deranged is beyond me!

  • For my own part I frequently experienced tardive psychosis during mini-seizures brought on by the neuroleptics I took. So I refuse to call those drugs “antipsychotics.” They also caused obsessive patterns of thought that made everyone hate me. Thank goodness these went away when I was taken off my stelazine.

    Now the only thing I take is levothyroxin for my bad thyroid. And lots of supplements including a monthly iron infusion due to the number SSRIs played on my gut!

  • Ron, poor nutrition, smoking, and vegging in front of the TV lead to an early death. But these bad habits are exacerbated by drugs, isolation, and poverty created by the stigma imposed by mental illness labels.

    My Aunt Norma Jean was diagnosed as schizophrenic at 17. She lived to be 87. Oh, and she never took psych drugs. And she got better–though never fully. Probably brain damage from shocks.

    Granted, that’s an anecdote. It would be interesting to see some real statistics on life span among the”mentally ill” before the drugs became too available. I don’t trust Google enough to use its search engine for that though.

  • Among other causes of these shootings is the way our society regards human life as cheap. Especially the “severely mentally ill.” No one has any problem drugging 5% of the population into an early grave since 1 out of a hundred might commit a murder someday.

    Not only do they regard the “mentally ill” as useless eaters but remorseless monsters who must be imprisoned/crippled/killed for the Public Good.

    The “monsters” often have “good insight” embracing the role assigned them of Monstrous Other–in addition to the maddening drugs they are coerced into taking. Like Frankenstein’s monster they give up on love and try to inspire fear instead.

  • Pies has driven himself crazy through continuous lying. Not a “brain” disorder. A moral one. Only instead of “creative symptoming” as Glasser called it–you see lavender gazelles to avoid the painful reality surrounding you–Pies has gone nuts trying to justify his wicked ways.

    Remember the cruel Commandant in Schindler’s List? He couldn’t live with his own guilty conscience. When they executed him he had “lost it.”

  • I wish there were a way to publicize this trial. Everyone I know believes in the “chemical imbalance” more firmly than the fact the sky is blue. Bunch of dumb sheeple.

    It says depression/bipolar/schizophrenia are real brain chemistry disorders on TV. TV never lies! So it must be true.

  • Out of touch with reality?

    You mean believing poisons are medicines? That dying 25 years prematurely is healthy? That “no” means “yes”? That although you earn a six digit income and enjoy prestige you can readily identify with those you malign and force to live in crushing poverty? That deceiving all your patients and the general public is noble?

    Nothing psychotic about that. Especially if you can diagnose yourself. 😛

  • Uh, Zenobia…the writer’s math is off. 11 positive plus 4 negative plus 4 mixed equals 19–not 18.

    In order to find happiness playing the “bipolar” role it helps to be a flamboyant drama queen. Use melodramatic terms to describe how crazy–yet gifted–you are. Speak in reverential awe of the god-like “doctor” who saved your soul with “medicines” necessary for redemption.

    Next, use your story to evangelize others to realize that they too are crazy bipolars in need of salvation through a chemical cocktail. You can even earn a comfortable living doing so.

    Washed up actors–too fat and dead pan to act–can travel to APA conventions, currying favor with these deities, and serving as shills to the masses about how REAL bipolar is and how they too can be happy/productive (although morbidly obese and dead pan) if they just submit to multiple drugs and shocks.

    There are also decoys or “peer specialists” who make a pittance to lure others to continue their “treatments.”

    Bloggers who tout the Gospel of Psychiatry on sites plastered with drug ads and affiliate links to other drug sites.

    If you’re lucky, and suffer minimal brain damage, you can write self dramatizing memoirs and fake histories about how lots of dead people MUST have been mentally ill. (If the drugs/shocks are necessary for BDs to function, then why are all the famous, successful ones 100+ years dead?) Then they can give you a professor’s chair–invented for a psychiatric mascot like yourself. Your real job isn’t to foster learning but sell Psychiatry. As long as you show up and tell how your lithium is making you exuberant, you’re guaranteed tenure! 😀

  • Being maimed by drugs taken long term and defamed by a phony diagnosis I am forced to live on disability too. For now.

    Sman, I doubt anyone here wants to rob you of the pittance you subsist on. I only get $760 a month. No food stamps and forced to live in roach infested HUD slum where everyone knows there’s something “wrong” with me for living here.

  • I wish I knew some of these people Someone Else. Every church I attend is militantly pro-psychiatry in the hopes of appearing humane.

    People–in Christian forums–complain that they need Prozac since Jesus isn’t enough to save them. If they think Science has all the answers they should take a page from Richard Dawkins and get the Heck out of church since they have no real belief in God or souls or good and evil!

  • Why wouldn’t HIPAA release records of all the “mentally ill” since no one cares about them anyhow?

    Unless the psychiatrists are nervous about losing perspective vic-uh-consumers, since knowing they will be publicly disgraced would serve as an effective deterrent to depressed people seeking out psychiatric abuse–I mean services.

  • Remember Les Miserables? Inspector Jalvert would have made a great shrink.

    Once a thief always a thief. Once a schizophrenic always a schizophrenic.

    Psychiatric diagnosis are really moral judgments. Some of these “symptoms” are bad behaviors. But by labeling the person as hopelessly depraved they are socially marginalizing them–declaring them irredeemable. Doing their best to prevent any reformation of character.

    Psychiatry is not only morally bankrupt, but encourages such in our society as a whole.

  • Dr. Breggin you are a busy man, so you probably can’t answer this question. (Good article, by the way.) Maybe one of the other commenters can.

    About Devin Kelley. He had a criminal record. Among other things he had almost murdered his infant son to get back at his wife.

    Why wasn’t Kelley in prison for attempted murder? Google searches reveal nothing.

    My guess is that instead of doing time like a real criminal should, he was sent to a psych ward. Because of his “insight” and religiously swallowing the drugs provided, the shrinks said he was safe and let him out early. Leaving him free to go on his killing rampage.

    Is there any truth to my hypothesis?

  • They certainly take no trouble to undeceive the public. I find Pies’s article about the “metaphor” psychiatry bases its authority on a snarky bit of self congratulation. He and his cronies are laughing up their sleeves at how easily the public is deceived by “well-informed” professionals in the know.

    I am printing that article to show my dad. Once he knows the truth he will be furious.

  • Psychiatrists also contradict themselves in other ways.

    For example: claiming that bad behaviors are different from “mental illness” but how do they judge whether someone is “mentally ill?” Blood work? Brain scans? Nope. Behaviors that hurt the performer, threaten others, or simply bug those around them.

    Why did that guy go on a killing spree?

    Because he was mentally ill.

    How do you know he was mentally ill?

    Because only a mentally ill person goes on killing sprees.

    You can’t argue with that astounding logic. 😀

  • Dr. K, I frequently feel frustrated because no one around me is open to any ideas about “mental illness” they don’t get off television. People are ignorant as ever–ordinary Joe Blows–and I feel hopeless to ever educate them.

    Barely resisting urge to become a misanthropic recluse and hole up away from the creeps and idiots. (The two types of people on planet Earth.)

    Isn’t the APA overestimating their enemy–if they even have one?

  • I was able to leave psychiatry once I realized it was incompatible with the Bible.

    Then I hear pastors give commercials for psych drugs in their sermons. Naive morons!

    Emerson said, “Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.” I say it’s the first refuge for scoundrels and selfish jerks who want to shuffle the suffering off to a corner to rot away from the Real People in the church. The snappy dressers who tithe with nice families.

    The more vocally pro-psychiatry a church is the meaner it is to the “mentally ill.” Often they do their best to freeze them out. Take your “meds” then keep away from us! See what kind, compassionate folks we are! We want them to get the help we need to keep them away from us.

    If everything we do comes from random chemicals in our heads we have no souls and should quit wasting time at their churches since religion is a hoax. Apparently Rick Warren has never bothered to think it through. Saddleback Church discourages thinking or reflection anyhow from what I hear.

  • Everybody I know on neuroleptics is a numb, stupified zombie. I have no idea what alternate universe you inhabit.

    These pills created stuff I never had before. Horrible nightmarish stuff. The nightmare of being drugged 24/7 is almost over but I’m angry and grieving and have no safe place offline to vent.

    If the drugs made folks feel so damned great no one would ever go off them! I took mine religiously for 25 years because I thought I deserved to suffer. They were nothing but an act of penance–self destruction to make my abusive “loved ones” happy! 🙁

  • No, according to the media “mental health” doesn’t cause violence. Mentally ill people do! The solution? More drugs!

    Drugging 25% of the population hasn’t solved violent shootings. There are more shootings now than 25 years ago when most of these drugs weren’t invented.

    The obvious solution? Drug more people than ever!!!! That’s a (literal) no brainer. 😀

  • If “antidepressants” work so well why are many people who take them on disability and not working? Why are so many horribly depressed and suicidal?

    I had depression as a kid, but learned to “talk myself out of it.” Taught myself compensatory methods that psychiatry refuses to acknowledge since they feed off learned helplessness.

    Believing I had a “brain disease” that only mind altering drugs could fix did more than make me an unwitting junkie. It tricked me into abdicating responsibility for my thoughts and feelings–even helped me rationalize acting like a jerk or lunatic. (Hey, might as well have the game as the name–as the saying goes!)

    For years shrinks lied to me. If I would take my “meds” I could hold down a job, find love and acceptance, lead a happy and productive life. Bunch of lies!

  • I got labeled “paranoid schizoaffective.” People treated me like something subhuman/dangerous/stupid. I got kicked out of college and my mom started abusing me–with encouragement from psychiatry.

    After a year of Hell on earth I wanted to kill myself. Why? It must have been a chemical disorder in my brain. It’s not like “mentally ill” folks have feelings after all, just chemical explosions in our heads. That makes it okay for everyone to treat us like garbage! 😛

  • Hard to find work after years in the system. Drug free but my body/brain have sustained permanent damage. Couldn’t get to work with the crappy mass transit system here–and 3-4 hours is as much work as I can stand. Sitting at a desk for more than 2 hours at a time exhausts me.

  • Madincanada, it’s not always bad choices. I guess you don’t read Bruce Levine or William Glasser or even Whitaker much.

    Years of sexual harassment or bullying can bring on emotional pain leading to “mental illness.” Being shell shocked in battle or homelessness can also trigger problems.

    So can abusive family members.

  • Ha! Legitimate medical specialties lack the political power of psychiatry. Why would that quack Pies want to be a “mere doctor” when he can wield all power and authority over his psychiatric test subjects as an absolute monarch?

    Real doctors can’t lock people up and perform experiments on them without their consent.

    My neuroleptics brought on psychotic episodes. Everyone claimed this was nonsense. Recently I read about tardive psychosis. I also believe they exacerbated obsessive thoughts. When my drugs were changed these got better. They drove all around me crazy–so they accused me of not taking my “medicines” when they were causing these problems.

    My question is how anyone can actually believe these help people? Anyone who says that crap must either be a mental illness professional who makes $$$$ off inflicting brain damage–creating illnesses that wouldn’t otherwise exist–or stupid, cruel, abusive family members–some of whom comment here. MONSTERS.

  • How do you know he wouldn’t have gotten better without drugs? It happened all the time before drugs were pushed. 70% of “schizophrenics” recovered without drugs. The recoveries were fuller and took less time.

    Read Anatomy of an Epidemic.

    My “bipolar 2” was created by psych drugs.

  • Bruce Levin has made similar arguments in the two books of his that I read. The hypocrisy or at least stupid inconsistency sickens me.

    Junior, drugs are evil. Unless you honk me off by arguing, throwing tantrums, or fidgeting while I talk. Then you take whatever drugs I say you must even if they make you vomit all day, have seizures, or need a bra. You’re evil not to take the drugs then.

    Take this drug; not that.

    Like “Eat this; not that.”

  • Especially within the psych branch. So far they have no reason to doubt me. My “real doctor” is glad to let me get all my psych pills from the “mental health” center and since I’m not manic or suicidal she takes my word that I’m taking them. Funny how the popular myths about psychiatry make doctors easy to fool. 🙂

  • I have heard about something called “rape therapy.” Basically date rapists lie to themselves that they aren’t actually hurting those they rape, the dumb victims don’t know what’s good for them, they really want it and will thank them later, the rapists are curing them of frigidity to make them normal and actually doing them a favor.

    Wow! Sound familiar?

  • Thanks Harper West. Unfortunately, if you work for a community center you have to play by their rules. If you run a private practice it’s different. (My guess is you do.)

    Telling me I would never succeed and should only date other mental patients was over the top. But many others have done so too–though often more subtly.

  • In 1 Samuel, David is fleeing King Saul whose jealousy has driven him crazy so he wants to murder the folk hero.

    David seeks refuge in enemy territory with the Philistines. Fearful that their king will recognize him, David fakes insanity. He froths at the mouth, refuses to talk, and marks various doors. (With chalk or–maybe like a dog.)

    “Don’t I have enough loonies to worry about without bringing me another?” demands the Philistine king. They show David the door and he escapes.

    This was written thousands of years before psychiatry. Madness certainly existed.

    But it’s interesting. To be “mad” back then usually meant you were so out of it you couldn’t talk or at least talk coherently and ran around like a rabid animal. Much higher standards for insane behavior. 😀 Also.notice the king was annoyed rather than frightened. He didn’t lock David up; he just drove him away.

  • Many “therapists” are more coercion-centered than anything else. Particularly the one’s who work for community centers.

    One of the reasons I fired mine before leaving the psych system altogether is we were getting nowhere. M. believed since I was supposedly SMI it was useless to encourage me to do anything but take my pills and not kill myself.

    I got tired of hearing her preach about how magical the “meds” were; I had read too much and knew it was crap even if M. herself believed it. (I WAS still compliant, but I’d been questioning why no one ever got better.)

    Then she would cheerfully give me 202 reasons why I would never succeed. Also told me I should only date “bipolars” since no one else can understand us. We’re all alike you know! 😛

  • Are you an attorney or at least familiar with any, TF?

    If so, I have an idea for a class action suit against psychiatry or Big Pharma–not sure which.

    A lot of those diagnosed with “Bipolar” wound up with the label due to a very bad reaction to an SSRI triggering what some call “psychotic mania.” The point of the lawsuit would be to draw public attention to 1. how easy it is to get labeled as SMI. 2. How these drugs hurt people. 3. How harmful the labels themselves are.

  • Robert Nikkel means well (I think) but he’s obviously blinded. As a member of the elite providers he has no idea how things appear to those at the receiving end of psychiatry.

    When an African-American friend tells me a police man took her aside and demanded what she was doing while trying to unlock her own car one evening I don’t laugh at her, say she imagined it, or tell her she’s overreacting.

    I wish Robert Nikkel and others like him would extend us the same courtesy.

  • Law is not consensual. By its nature consensual psychiatry would lack the force of law. Ideally it would be demoted to a “fringe” medical practice–like herbalism, acupuncture, and reflexology. Below chiropractors.

    They would also be restricted in their marketing. Enforcing laws against false advertising already on the books would be great for a start.

  • Have you read “The Yellow Wall-Paper” by Charlotte Perkins Gilman? It’s not just a commentary on the lack of women’s rights in the 19th century, but a critique of psychiatric crazy making in treating the “mad.” If you’re not crazy when you start the treatment don’t worry. Keep at it long enough and you’ll realize your shrink was right after all—you ARE loonier than Minnesota in the spring! 😀

  • Thank you, Dr. Brogan.

    This is anecdotal, but since tapering below 50% of my original Effexor dose (150 mg to less than 75) I’m no longer intensely sad or suicidal.

    I’m off it completely now and am struggling with building an identity from scratch at 44. With an ugly “diagnosis” looming over me. At least HIPPA provides some protection.

  • I agree Ray D. That’s what the judicial system is for.

    As a law-abiding citizen who volunteers at the hospital, helps her ailing relatives, and visits neighbors who are homebound due to sickness I deeply resent being labeled “Bipolar” like some violent murderous criminal! What have I done to deserve to have Dr. Torrey malign my character on national television? (No, I’m very much in touch with reality. He warned the public that all those his profession has labeled SMI are a menace to society and should be locked up/physically damaged without a trial.)

    Answer: I saw a psychiatrist, took the SSRI he offered, had a horrible reaction and have been punished ever since!

    I no longer have mood swings–since tapering off my “cocktail” with no offline support system. Apparently mind-altering drugs can cause mood swings. Yet I’m struggling to find work with no history of gainful employment–in my mid-forties. Struggling to integrate myself into mainstream society. “Mental health” centers segregate, they do not integrate.

    I live in constant fear that the truth about my damning diagnosis will leak out and I will be locked up or shunned. Like the self righteous villain of Les Miserables my pursuer is relentless. “Once a thief always a thief.” “Once a bipolar always a bipolar.”

    In my case–and there are many like me–I didn’t even have to steal. No law was broken. Yet my “soul doctor” declared me incompetent and dangerous. Then drugged me into a stupor inducing daily–sometimes hourly seizures.

    I no longer consider myself mad (crazy) but I’m very angry. And I feel it’s justified.

  • The problem with saying “mental illness does not exist” is people outside our movement won’t know what you mean. Seriously.

    “My son John doesn’t leave our house. He sits around talking to the voices he hears and barely talks to my husband or me at all. Are you calling that normal?”

    “I feel rotten all the time. I lie in bed feeling so depressed I can’t get up for days at a time. How dare you say I’m faking it!”

    Be prepared to make lengthy and involved explanations when you run around saying, “Mental illness doesn’t exist.”

    Szazs said a lot more than that! He took pains to clarify that men might hear voices telling them to murder their wives or imagine they were poached eggs. He went on to say why and how this was so.

  • People embrace this (harmful) myth because it makes them feel secure and boosts their self esteem. Only the”mentally ill” others commit violent crimes, most people are sweet and good by nature. As a non-SMI person I’m normal, okay and decent Unlike those nut jobs over there!
    It’s more harmful than chocolate eggs or Rudolph, but the public eats it up for a reason.

  • What made me decide to make a leap and quit my “meds” as they called them was an existential question troubling me.

    Do I need these pills to make moral decisions? If I’m dependent on pills to do right I am not a free moral agent; I don’t have a soul at all.

    Now I have concluded these drugs took the edge off my conscience and ability to understand others’ feelings. I wish I had quit them long ago.

    They made me sick and miserable, but I felt I owed it to those around me –not just to keep from annoying them, but I believed I might go on a random killing spree.

  • Actually the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus exist–not literally–but as cultural archetypes. The fact that they are so popular and deeply rooted in our collective consciousness says a lot about our society.

    If nothing else Mental Illness is a cultural archetype. It may be a myth, but it must be meaningful to many Americans on a personal level; or fewer would embrace it. I’m not just talking about psychiatric workers or grateful consumers either.

  • ‘”Clinical psychologists’ don’t necessarily come with a ‘medicine/disease/treatment’ framework.”

    Those who work at the community centers do, Brett. It’s uphold the status quo and keep mainstream psychiatrists happy or lose your job.

    If I ever see a counselor again it will be in a private practice. Not a Mental Illness assembly line at the Pharma-Psychiatry Factory.

  • The Batman Movie Shooter went on a killing spree because he had been diagnosed with bipolar. Even then “mental illness” was not the motive. He believed he was a monster–no longer subject to the laws governing humanity. Full of grief and bitterness and envy at the rest of humanity, he murdered a bunch of “normals” as a means of ending his own life. After all his psychiatrist had assured him he had a degenerative brain disease which would cause him to act irrationally and even amorally. The “meds” could treat it but he would always be a monster and his life would not amount to crap.

    He thoroughly believed his doctor. So you could say his “good insight” prompted the killing spree.

  • There seems to be a third characteristic of mental disorders as conceived by the popular imagination. Complete amorality or worse. Doing totally evil things for no reason at all.

    A recent article in The Blaze stated: They have discovered the motivation for the Los Angeles shooter. He was mentally ill.

    No matter how disjointed or odd his thoughts may have been, I don’t see the future shooter sitting down and thinking, “Because I am mentally ill I am going to go on a killing spree and die myself. It’s irrational and evil; therefore I must do it.”

    Why? Because I am a villain. Nyah ah ah!

  • People think they are getting their needs met, but they aren’t. People who walk into a psychiatrist’s office don’t go because they lead happy lives with fulfilling relatinships, Oldhead. The unhappiness is real for them. But lying that they have a physical brain disease and can fix it with disabling drugs makes the problem 10 x worse.

    Would they have been better off not going?I would agree with that. I should have just dropped out of college; they kicked me out anyhow.

  • Cooptation is what NAMI is all about. While the NAMI mommies and well-meaning but clueless family members run the show, it derives a lot of it’s credibility from the “consumer” mascots. Unless it’s a spiel for “life-saving meds that saved my life” no one wants to hear what they say. They have no input even into their own educational programs. (I’m not referring to questioning psychiatry, but wanting a program written above a 3rd grade reading level.) They’re show animals if not window dressing.

    ~3 year NAMI mascot–trained animal

  • My church believes in the drugs sadly, though a few individual friends don’t. I have my own theory as to why evangelicals have embraced psychiatry–and it isn’t about showing the love of Jesus! 🙁

    I go to a pretty nice little church. As long as they don’t know the “truth” about me they treat me okay. Pretending to have a fiance far away helps too.

    Because wearing a mask is draining I seek out emotional support at a writer’s group and meet ups. Personal enrichment classes seem like a good idea and maybe EA.

  • Tireless has said some negative things about the “middle class” family too. I pointed out how dysfunctional families exist at all social levels and he made the “no true Scotsman” case that all (abusive) families are middle class at heart.
    He also has complained about inheritance laws leaving the bulk of the estate to the eldest son. I have read about that myself–in novels from the Victorian era.

  • I no longer accept my “bipolar” label or self identify as such outside doctor visits when it’s unavoidable. But I feel adrift. I was always ashamed of my “madwoman” role, but now I have no role at all.

    I’m a woman without a past–starting life as a no-longer-young adult. I feel like the hero in Being There. But at least I’m literate. 🙂

  • Here are my solutions to psychiatry. I strongly agree with Robert that psychiatry fills a void and even legitimate needs in people’s lives. I didn’t stumble into Dr. M’s office in the spring of 1992 because I was overwhelmingly happy, surrounded by friends and achieving my dreams. However meth can also be used to fill a void or meet needs in the lives of unhappy people. There are alternatives to meth, and psychiatry as well.

    Abolishing psychiatry would require either a collapse of our economic system in which case the government will be to busy fighting all of its citizenry to worry about programs like TAC and other crap. The other scenario would be some dictator coming in and killing massive quantities of people including shrinks. But many dictators like shrinks if they toe the party line. Neither scenario is desirable since I don’t want people to die.

    Here are three suggestions to restrict the powers of psychiatry and offer alternatives to its intended victims.

    1. Educate the public. Force Big Pharma to remove the lie about the chemical imbalance from their commercials. Widely publicize articles/admissions by Dr.Pies and other psychiatric bigwigs. Tell people that folks go nuts not because they’re monsters or evolutionary throwbacks but because they get stressed out. Tell everyone that NAMI is not just a front for Big Pharma but abusive parents and partners. Many who know the former don’t know the latter.
    2. Provide alternatives to psychiatry. Temporary respites where people can “come back” from journeys into non-mainstream reality or whatever you call it. Coaching for eccentrics who want to tone down odd behaviors and pass. More groups like Hearing Voices. In Indiana there is nothing but mainstream psychiatry and NAMI. If TF and others find the notion of these things offensive they can stay away. Only people who wanted them would even be allowed in. “Counseling” someone against their wishes is pointless AND traumatizing. Everyone would benefit from more community activities as well. Our society is too isolating.

    3. This should be a no-brainer. Flop houses for psychiatric drug addicts to dry out. This would also help make the point that the”meds” forced on us are really mind altering drugs.

  • If your eyes froth you need to see an opthamologist.

    I find the remark “how we care for the mentally ill” condescending and offensive. Even assuming MI to be a valid disability I don’t think Greensprouts would post such a remark on a website for–say quadraplegics–“how WE care for them!” All about Greensprouts and what benefactors like her/him will do for pathetic MI idiots. Doesn’t even address us in her comments. Most likely a social worker.

    And most of us don’t need to be taken care of–unless they want to undo the damage to our reputations from psychiatric slander (diagnoses) with public apologies and research into undoing the physical damage created by shocking and drugging innocent people. I don’t see that happening. Men like Torrey never apologize.

  • I noticed Robert only quoted the most extreme comments by very angry commenters. Maybe I should be flattered he didn’t quote me.

    My suffering was real before psychiatry entered the picture. I’m upset that I was lied to, lied about, and fed mind altering drugs on the pretext that they were correcting a real bodily ailment.

    At the bottom I am going to post a couple solutions even Robert may agree with. Not sure about TF, but exacting revenge upon all our enemies is not possible, helps nobody, and goes against my religious beliefs.

  • Pat, I have a good friend who chooses to remain in the Psychiatric System. She knows I’ll support her if she wants to leave, but I don’t pressure her. Escape is difficult, but especially at age 59. She doesn’t pressure me to come back, take my drugs, or tattle on me to Big Brother.

    Since leaving NAMI I don’t visit the site. I don’t visit Bipolar Burble, The Mighty, Healthy Place or the other countless other pro-psychiatry sites on the internet. If I did I would refrain from commenting, or say something we could all agree with such as “Quit bashing your ‘crazy psycho bipolar ex’!” since they attract creepy trolls like those. If I did dissent I would try to make the comment as polite and tactful as possible.

    That’s called good manners.

    Many of us disagree with Littleturtle, but his comments are polite and sometimes thought provoking. He communicates respectfully.

  • I am not sure I can stomach the article.

    I’ll bet they don’t tell people their “meds” are highly addictive and just abandoning them will cause horrible withdrawals.

    Tapering is psychiatry’s best kept secret. Along with the beloved chemical imbalance that the well informed inner circle know to be a “metaphor” while laughing up their sleeves at the gullible public.

  • I think psychiatry infantilizes people, damages their brains and vital organs, defames them and encourages their segregation, makes them live in poverty, enables their bad behaviors, and kills them.

    But large numbers of people ALREADY IN the system believe it saved their life, soul, and is the meaning to their existence. Take away their psychiatric saviors and those people will throw hysterics and riot in the streets. Going cold turkey can send them body and mind into shock possibly causing permanent damage or death. Can you imagine this?

  • Maybe Frank thought Sera intended this to be a humorous essay. From my own reading of the piece and Sera’s comments here I don’t think so. Her tone is light and full of metaphors, but there are no jokes or witticisms–good or bad.

    Nice piece!

  • Ugh! Must be horrible. As a smart, articulate MI consumer with a college degree I thought about becoming a PSS. Everyone at the center I attended applauded the idea.

    I started hearing audible voices the week before training. I decided not to go; the voices stopped shortly after.

    I had already been reading William Glasser and Terry Lynch, so I was having a paradigm shift. That’s what “anosognosia” really is. Questioning the cult’s beliefs.

    Maybe I conjured up those voices which I had never experienced before or since to prevent my becoming a peer support specialist. My heart knew it was wrong and overpowered my conscious mind temporarily.

  • In her book Quiet, Susan Cain comments on how our society pressures introverts to conform and become outgoing game show hosts. You also have to always see the glass as HALF FULL. Never mind that half empty is equally true. Cause that makes you a pessimist. You negative Nellie! Don’t you know it’s sick and crazy not to think life’s a bowl of cherries and Lollipop Land? Obviously delusional.

  • I want to end psychiatry too. But in the meantime people suffer and die. I get angry at commenters so fixated on revenge they ignore those who suffer and say they shouldn’t recover. What???

    Those who escape the Madhouse without Walls need to recover not just from the emotional pain/bad habits that made us prey for the psychiatric industry but the usually worse trauma psychiatry has inflicted on us.

  • A support system is a must Littleturtle. One apart from the MI System. You may be forced or even choose to attend a “mental wellness” center. A good escape plan is essential.

    Do volunteer work in the community. I volunteered 4-8 hours a week in Portland (Indiana!) I did it on my own but refused to do the organized kind put together by the center since it caused the people to treat us like morons or children.

    Maybe joining Emotions Anonymous. Actually much of what passes for mental illness are emotional addictions. (Bad habits really hard to break.)

    If you are religious attend any extra functions your church or synagogue offers. Maybe talk to your clergy or church counselor.

    Use meet up to find clubs of people with shared hobbies or interests nearby.

    On your own you can do some reading and journaling or dilettante art for emotional release. On Feeling Good by David Burns helped me. While Burns does not openly question the bio-model he obviously prefers talking to pills in most cases. Because it’s a book, not an emotionally abusive “therapist” you can always put it down if you don’t find the recommended techniques helpful.

    Above all eat right, drink enough water, keep regular bedtime hours, and get enough exercise!

  • I’m not avoiding activism because of intelligence but cowardice. How do you avoid being locked up, drugged and shocked Sera?

    Unlike with MLK or Gandhi they don’t even have to stage a fake trial with trumped up charges to imprison us. Then they can punish us to their hearts’ content even to the point of death when pretending to be benevolent humanitarians.

  • Sooo…the truth is Lieberman screams at Szasz to recant his heresy. Szasz, knows he’s dealing with a fool, refuses to argue, merely smiling instead. Ergo Szasz for his own NEFARIOUS purposes is obviously lying–though he really knows the truth.

    Consider that Lieberman’s status of psychiatrist gives him mystical clairvoyant powers to not just predict suicide/homicide before they happen but read the innermost thoughts of Szazs as well as all his vic–uh–patients.

    Mind reading and fortune telling. The science of psychiatry,folks!

    Alas, if only Szazs could have been his patient, Lieberman could easily have “cured” him of that thought crime anosognosia. Lock him up and subject him to endless rounds of electroshock and druggings till he recants.

    “He loved Big Brother.”

  • Likewise I’m not against intelligence or advanced medical degrees. But if a remorseless person who lies nonstop and doesn’t care about anyone else has these benefits he is not trustworthy but dangerous. He will use his intelligence and medical degree to get what he wants by deceiving others and not caring how he hurts them. Like Bernie Madoff, but instead of robbing retirees of their life savings this dangerous doctor will cripple and kill with impunity.

  • Why can’t it be both? I have experienced extreme thoughts/feelings that made me unable to function even before psychiatry interfered. If someone like Lawrence had explained, “Nothing is wrong with your brain, Rachel. What you are experiencing is a subconscious coping technique to escape your pain by fleeing reality,” I would have realized I actually WAS in control and snapped out of it more easily.

    I felt empowered when I read Glasser’s theory about “creative symptoming.” Considering how many of us are artists (even in multiple mediums) it makes sense that madness is caused by our imaginations running wild.

  • The Victorian madhouses were abominable. But,honestly they imprisoned fewer people than today’s Madhouse Without Walls.

    One prisoner in the madhouse is one too many, but even when trapped in the System I didn’t beg friends outside to come in for treatment. A woman I know was miserable, lonely, sick from drugs, and frequently threatened suicide. She had a friend she begged to come in for “help.”

    I remembered thinking, “Good grief Cathy! We’re in Hell here. Why are you trying to recruit fellow sufferers!”

    In the story The Rich Man and Lazarus, the selfish rich guy who let sick Lazarus starve at his gate still wanted to keep his brothers out of the Hell he wound up in. That would make Cathy more selfish than Dives. Did she honestly think her life at the Mental Illness Center was meaningful or happy?

    Misery loves company.

  • Steven Fry’s reasoning is faulty. Is he on a lot of psych drugs?

    He claims that mental illness is biological, but then differentiates between the two in the very title he chooses.

    I did another spin on that lame argument on a post in the forum. NAMI and other treatment enforcers would never treat a physically sick person the way they do the already emotionally traumatized. I have a low bovine excrement threshold. Fry’s brainless arguments make me want to puke.

  • Sadly many of us have been sucked in who never would have in the 19th century. For example Charlotte Bronte was eccentric–a very nervous individual. She never was called mad or locked up.

    Never should have taken Anafranil. Can’t stop grieving and wondering what the point was to escaping psychiatry. At 44 I am too old to form new relationships or a new identity apart from mental patient. My shame will never end. 🙁

  • If you ask a shrink for pity you really are out of touch with reality. 😀

    Dr. Mengele doesn’t care when his test subjects scream in pain. He simply jots it down in his notes for publication in the APA journal and attributes it to the “subjects’ severe mental illness.” Very insightful of you, Dr. Asrael.

  • Good point! Neither political party supports our movement.

    I believe if anyone could convince Trump that psychiatry is hurting our economy by crippling workers and forcing them to live at tax payer expense it would be very helpful. But he is an unreflective extrovert who never reads–like almost everyone I know offline. (My dad excluded.)

  • Regarding Oldhead’s remark about how psychiatry is very scientific in their techniques of social oppression….

    Wouldn’t that make Psychiatry a lowly “soft science?” What an insult! They are real “hard scientists” gosh darn it! Manly men above foolishness like sociology and anthropology.

    Dr. Quackenbush: I am not a crook! I am a real scientist.


  • A lot of conservative churches are replacing sermons with psychiatric drug commercials. I visited one while suffering a headache from my effexor taper. Pretty horrific in my situation.

    The preacher was nice. But when he told the congregation,”Never go off your psychiatric medicine without your doctors orders!” I grew nauseated and trembled.

    Naivete is no virtue. I will never return. No one has the right to be so willfully ignorant.

    Am I harsh? They claimed to want to help and educate people. But…the talk would also drum up business for the Mental Illness Center.

    Two members of the church worked there–the ones who did the spiel about how wonderful psych drugs were…that science had proven a chemical imbalance causes mental illness. They earned generous salaries–and tithed.

    If you’re that ignorant you have no business teaching others.

  • Say, “Funny.I didn’t know pills had feelings.” 🙂

    It’s noteworthy how strongly these people identify with the pills they take. Just like their defamatory “diagnoses.”

    Hi. I’m Bipolar Jane who takes Effexor, Abilify and Latuda. Those drugs are who I am. Quit insulting them. At least lower your voice so you won’t traumatize them.

  • Thank you Bill. There are some nice men in Hoosier-land. All married. Also some nasty married men. Family friendly.The churches I attend overlook me or mock me for being an “old maid.”

    Keep getting told I’m washed up and have lost all value. 25 is hopelessly old for women according to some guys. Odd since we live longer. And most older men aren’t as buff as George Clooney.

    I’m not that picky about looks myself and don’t date guys under 40 (usually.) Get tired of guys my age telling me how old, washed up and ugly I am.

    Anyone who says crap that cruel to a woman (however physically unattractive) would make a rotten husband anyhow. So it doesn’t matter after all.

    No, you aren’t “too old.” Upset at some creepy over-aged adolescents. Weird how the biggest jerks never get labeled mentally ill. They confine their jerky, cruel behavior to socially appropriate ways and run for public office.

  • I read a book by a shrink a few years ago called Images of Madness in the Media. In it he decried using “bipolar” as a light-hearted term of deprecation. The levity was what truly bothered him. In addition to his fear that “No one will take bipolar–a real and serious illness–seriously!” Seems Dr. Pillshill was upset they were invading his turf. 😀

    He claimed to be concerned about how badly people treated those his profession labels hopelessly insane. Maybe he believed this himself. But his true motives come through at the end. “People will be afraid to seek out the ‘help’ they need.” Stigma is bad for business people! How can poor Dr. Pillshill buy his new 40 foot yacht without enough clients? And the ones he has are inconsiderate and die young.

    Poor Dr. Pillshill. His sad tale will bring tears to your eyes. *Violin chorus.*

  • I read how William Wilberforce brought about prison reform and made the jailers separate the violent from non-violent criminals.

    In the case of madhouses they make no distinction between violent criminals and peaceful, law abiding citizens. Punishing people for crimes they MIGHT POSSIBLY commit in the future. Marvelous fortune tellers and mind reading psychics those shrinks!

  • I call it prolonged sadness. As someone who scores high on the neurosis scale I am highly sensitive to emotional pain. Since seven I have experienced periods of sadness–but learned how to shorten and sometimes prevent them by carefully monitoring my thoughts. Then I entered the Mental Illness System and was horribly, painfully sad for 24 years. Ended after I went off my”antidepressant.”

  • I had fun playing mind games with an air headed psych nurse I met at the polls on election day. She was raving about how wonderful electroshock was. Apparently she got this “knowledge” from a video they showed in training. Noticed other psych workers spouting the same garbage like something from The Manchurian Candidate.

    I have never experienced electroshock, but I’ll take the word of those who have been through it over some idiot who thinks watching a video makes her an expert on how this form of brain damage makes you feel.

    Anyhow, I smiled sweetly and told Nurse Rached what a wonderful person she must be. And, oh, I have friends with psychiatric problems. I have been wondering if they could standardize some kind of spinal tap or blood test to determine the severity of the patients’ chemical imbalance and remove some of the guesswork from prescribing those “life saving medicines.”

    Would you believe she swallowed the bait? Seriously. She told me that was a wonderful idea and she would talk to the doctor. I smiled and said I was sure it would help her career greatly.

    Hee hee! 😀

  • Try to find other survivors and make it a class action suit. Make a big enough stink and–although you will likely “lose” you can truly discredit and embarrass those liars in the big pharma/psych racket. That’s why Big Pharma often settles out of court. While they could pay less by winning the case, they would lose face and people would be more apt to avoid their poisons.

  • Sandra, congratulations on escaping the Madhouse Without Walls.

    You forgive more easily than I do. I have promised myself to do those who damaged me good instead of evil if I get the chance. I have quit praying for them to develop terminal brain cancer.

    Someday all the wrongs they inflicted on us will be righted. But not this side of Eternity. Sigh…. 🙁

  • Slip a little extra crystal in your “therapist’s” coffee so he can think he’s severely mentally ill! Then he’ll see you all over when you aren’t there and know the joys of psychiatric “treatment” first hand. 😀 NO, DON’T REALLY DO THAT.

    That would be illegal and wrong. But it’s a hysterically funny revenge fantasy. Might make a good short story.

  • Steve, I observed this from the “other side.” After 6 years observing my fellow consumers in a day treatment I noticed that:we were getting worse not better. Often rapidly so. While the “meds” caused horrible”side” effects they never silenced people’s voices for more than 2 or 3 weeks. We were almost all suicidal and depressed most of the time–because our lives were Hellish. Aside from numbing our pain the drugs did nothing.

    Unaccountable as this would sound to those supporting TAC–taking massive quantities of mind altering drugs did not make us more conscientious, more considerate in our relationships, less self-centered,or better citizens. 😛

    Anyone who claims that more psychiatric drugs will prevent murder is actually saying that there are pills which can magically transform Ariel Castro into Mr.Sensitivity and Charles Manson into Mother Theresa. I find Robert Louis Stevenson’s fantasy more believable.

    We should call shrinks out on this bovine excrement, demanding how any medicine can transform a bad character into a good one. (Insulin can help stabilize blood sugar, but it doesn’t promote ethical behavior. So, no the brain drugs they prescribe are NOT just like “insulin for diabetes” and their own actions prove otherwise.) Then watch them hem and haw–or dig it deeper till it becomes obvious what lies they tell.

  • TF, did you read the article? That was not the point Robert was trying to make at all. Scrooge had moral–not mental problems. He needed to realize what a rotten stinker he was. No doctor could help him there.

    Because of his financial success and political clout (probably) I doubt Scrooge would have gotten a psych label. Till the end of the story where he gives lots of money away and becomes happy for no outward reason. 🙂

  • I believe Dr.Peter Breggin mentions many SSRI drugs have been effectively used as chemical castration for sex offenders.

    I have always been grateful for that side effect myself. No man could ever love a “bipolar” madwoman after all. Why want what you can’t have?

    Too old and sick for romance now at 44 after 25+ years on drugs. None of the single men my age are worth 2 cents anyhow.

  • Trying to grow up now at 44. Besides getting off my drugs I had to go to a place where no one “knows” that I’m “bipolar.” If you are treated like a childish imbecile it’s hard to act otherwise.

    A case worker once told me that “SMI” people quit maturing emotionally at the point where they become “sick.” This makes sense since the System steps in at that time and locks you into a role of childish dependence. For life.

  • TF, you want justice. We aren’t likely to get either mercy or justice from our society. They see us as vermin–and you don’t show mercy or justice to roaches. Just the sole of your shoe!

    I’m trying to inject anti-psychiatry subtly into my writing. It’s fiction and poetry. It can infiltrate the psyche of our culture in a way that ordinary medical journals and books won’t. Mad In America is interesting, but it’s not dumbed down enough to compete with the idiot box. I may be able to talk my dad into reading it, but Mom REFUSES to read anything longer than a preview of a television show or maybe a recipe for exotic bread.

    When I talked to my friends about my readings they laughed at me, refused to hear anything I had to say or look at the book, and said Bob Whitaker was just lying for money (Writing books can make you filthy rich. Ha ha.) It’s easier than taking the time or trouble to read something other than a cookbook or Amish romance.

  • I believe he at least only supports the non-coercive kind. In Anatomy of an Epidemic he argues that the “medicine” often provides temporary relief to both the patient and those around them. But the benefits are short term and rapidly wear off.

    I experienced short term benefits from stelazine then later zoloft. I don’t worship these drugs, the men who prescribed them, or the companies who concocted them.

    Why? They taught me I didn’t need to work on changing myself or improving my life; drugs could do it for me. They also helped me get sucked down the rabbit hole of “severe mental illness.”

  • I am hopeful that shrinks using actual street drugs will prove to the gullible sheeple around me that these “medicines” are just mind altering drugs. A drug is a drug is a drug!

    Sick of hearing my preacher condemn medicinal use of marijuana from the pulpit while his wife is force feeding their grandson speed. 😛 She has no idea I’m a non-compliant “mental patient.” I’m not about to tell her either. It helps that I don’t fit her stereotypical preconceptions.

  • Thanks for the article Peter. You’re preaching to the choir here.

    Of course the doctor you quote only suggests occasional switching to “less damaging” drugs. Old school neuroleptics I presume?

    The obvious solution–finding another remedy for madness–is not worthy of consideration. Dr. Ilyes would need to give up his prestigious job with a 7-digit income. Better to shut his eyes and grope around the elephant in the living room. 🙂

  • In the old days, people with “mental illnesses” lived as long as anyone else. What would we do without those “safe and effective treatments?”

    I have lost 35 pounds of the 180 I packed on over the years. While I continue to lose, my heart arrhythmia shows improvement. I prefer water to soda pop when thirsty and only crave junk food occasionally. Coincidence?

    Remember boys and girls: neglecting your mental health can add 25 years to your life! Lol.

  • Don’t forget the neuroleptics for his hallucinations! Science has proven that ghosts and spirits do not exist–therefore they were all merely neurochemicals misfiring in Scrooge’s brain.

    Scrooge thought he was seeing Marley due to indigestion, but he was actually having a psychotic break from too much dopamine in his brain. Or too little. Or whatever sells pills on TV. 🙂

  • Stan, I’m grieved by your son’s story. I’m also greatly angered though not at you. I’m 44–a little younger than your son was. I managed to escape the psychiatric industry in October, 2016. I had been weaning myself off my cocktail since May of that year. I have been psych drug free since August 31 of this year! 🙂

    My parents tried to help me, but all that happened was the “experts” got angry at them and tried to manipulate me into signing all my rights over to them. I don’t think so!

    Since 2012 I had been reading books by real doctors–many psychiatrists–that the “meds” I had been taking religiously for years were mind altering drugs just like the kind you buy off street dealers. This blew my mind–what wasn’t drugged asleep by my cocktail.

    I always wondered why there were no tests to check my brain’s chemical balance since that’s what they claimed to be correcting. But I figured they knew what they were doing.

    Like your son I was the “perfect patient” but got frustrated when my mind, body, and life went rapidly downhill. The experts thought my horrible life was cool. Not one of them would have been happy living it, but they were “normal” people who counted. The kind of people where it would be scandalous if standard medical practice consigned them to an early grave.

    I am recovering my ability to write now. When I listen to music I can actually FEEL it again. When I go outside I can enjoy nature. For over 20 years I felt nothing, Stan. There’s a reason we hate our “meds” even when we take them. I took mine because my mom said she couldn’t stand me otherwise (once a month or two I would miss a dose by mistake and have withdrawals though part of it was in her head.)

    I also felt I deserved to suffer for those around me. But I was not up to playing the part of Jesus forever. Considering myself helplessly insane and taking mind altering drugs did not make me a better person in the long run sadly.

    Struggling with how to explain this to my parents. Maybe never would be a good time. They’re clueless I quit my drugs since I am not acting “crazy” though Mom worries how physically ill I am now. I told her I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, but she has no idea going off my “meds” could cause such a thing. The drug commercials ain’t telling.

  • No doubt he has been deeply hurt though he refuses to talk about it. It seems there are two doors into the 21st Century Madhouse. Some of us come in pain, desperate for some sort of help. What we get is stigmatized by a damning moral judgment called a “diagnosis.” And lots of drugs and perhaps ECT.

    Others are dragged in kicking and screaming for flamboyant behavior or partying too hard. Since they are more apt to escape early they tend to be judgmental toward those of us deceived into staying in the MI System for years.

    Here’s my opinion about the link between Pharma-psychiatry and government. Decoupling government and big business would help us immensely. Big Pharma has Washington in its pocket. Were it not for that, the Murphy Bill would not have gone through so easily. We need to end bribery in the form of “campaign contributions” from amoral lobbyists. Easier said than done!

  • Men and women need to work together. It’s about cooperation rather than competition. Demonizing all men is not the answer.

    There are some truly evil mothers who emotionally abuse adult children–taking great pains to keep us isolated and dependent (entirely on them.) A lot of controlling women gravitate to work in the Mental Illness System like flies to rotting meat. The idea of Matriarchs Who Can Do No Wrong is unrealistic to say the least–especially for victims of a matriarchal dictator.

    This sounds cruel, but if Mom weren’t in the picture, I know Dad would support my choice to go off psych drugs. He would be happy to read some of the anti-psychiatry literature. He would rather I be independent and well than trapped in a state of childish dependence. Not so with Mom!

  • Yes. Blame it on the illness/patient. How convenient!

    The amount of neuroleptics you take has more to do with who your shrink is than anything else.

    Just like whether you’re “bipolar” or “schizophrenic.” A crap shoot that varies from shrink to shrink. Imagine if doctors claimed to be able to transform leukemia into skin cancer with a few strokes of the pen. They can’t–but those are actual diseases.

  • I remember a smug creep who ran a “Clubhouse” and would mock us for being tired–laziness of course–and drinking a lot due to thirst–dipsomania and lack of self control. I still drank psychiatric kool-aid then, but I thought Paul was ignorant and cruel. He never was on the drugs we had to take and probably wasn’t even informed about the symptoms they create.

  • Sounds a little like Aspergers. The main problem with having it is struggling to understand fine social nuances; then others can’t understand why the person is struggling.

    My mood swings were caused by the drugs taken to treat them. I went slowly off my cocktail and they vanished. Now I’m dealing with the aftermath of the life they wrecked. Thank God I have my mind again though!

  • I read Bipolar in Order a while back. My problem with Chris Cole’s philosophy is he’s pretty mainstream psychiatry. He advocates psych drugs as necessary for treating a discrete pathological ailment that doesn’t exist as such. “Bipolar” is only valid as a social construct, billing code, or defamatory weapon against an enemy.

    Mood swings are real, but according to Psychiatry, bipolar is no more moodiness than depression is unhappiness.

  • Perhaps no one has offered him either. 🙁

    I wish him well, or would. But he might twist that into something to take offense at.

    Sometimes rapists die unpunished by human courts. The victim still needs help. So no, just hurting the bad guys won’t automatically undo the damage they’ve done.

    If I could choose between getting my life back OR wreaking bloody vengeance on all in the MI System who have harmed me I would choose the former. No question. Revenge is only sexy on the silver screen.

  • I’m angry at Rick Warren, but I pity him too. It’s hard losing a loved one to suicide.

    Part of it is, admitting Matt Warren chose suicide freely–unhappy as he was–would force Rick to wonder about where Matt will spend eternity. Traditionally suicides go to Hell. (Fear of Hell often prevented suicide in the past; more effectively than shrinks.)

    By claiming his son had no real role in killing himself–some neuro-troll took over–Rick can absolve his son of moral responsibility/guilt. Unfortunately he believes it’s his God-given duty to “help” others like Matt. While claiming we have no moral responsibility sounds great at first, basically Rick Warren’s “ministry” claims the “mentally ill” are irrational and amoral beings.

    Do the “severely mentally ill” have souls? is what someone should ask him. If so, why do you act as though they’re trained animals with no sense of right or wrong?

  • “No man is an island.” John Donne.

    I’m lonely as heck right now. My friends all live hundreds of miles from me and aren’t returning my calls. Busy with jobs, families, or out of minutes.

    No reliable transportation; strange city; hard to meet anyone with no regular job; and my family is treating me worse than ever so being around them much is toxic.

    I’m comfortable with myself, but humans weren’t meant to live in total isolation. If I’m with a friend I’m with myself as well, so calling it “lack of self love” is a gross oversimplification.

  • Some sure signs of Psychosis:

    Sense of Humor
    Love of beauty
    Creative Output (shrinks can’t make/understand art, so artists must all be loons)
    Depth of Character
    Insight (into people’s character; not gullibility)
    Need for Compassion
    Disagreeing with Shrink
    Failure to Worship Shrink
    Complex Idealogy
    Liking Cats Too Much

    Lol! 😛

  • Counseling or coaching are more accurate terms, assuming it’s a healthy relationship. Many “therapists” are abusive and you’re better off with no counseling at all!

    Right now I don’t care if a counselor is certified. Often I prefer uncertified mavericks, since they aren’t as apt to be toadies for the MI System.

  • They have not helped my personal relationships. On the one hand the external problems: drugs and basically telling my family not to take anything I said too seriously; I was mentally ill and my feelings didn’t count.
    It didn’t help that I believed my diagnosis either. Frankly I believe “good insight” encourages weak, passive behavior and fits of rage. “Hey, I can’t help it. It’s just my bipolar acting up.” No one wants to be around someone who acts that way. 🙂

  • Slaying-the-Dragon, I’m afraid to tell people the truth about psychiatry since everybody’s a hopeless ignoramous who enjoys being stupid. If I tell them psychiatry is a crock and victimized me they laugh–or worse. I just hide my past and no one can guess I’m supposed to be crazy. Unfortunately I will have to leave my family and maybe cut them out of my life entirely. They’re determined to keep me “sick and crazy” and segregated from others. Mom gets angry when I mention driving lessons, freelancing, or dating. I’m 44 and she still picks out my haircuts if she can and monitors my food intake. Forget you Mommy Dearest! 😛

  • I won’t write about stereotypical characters–which is what psychiatry is all about. Only instead of racist/sexist/religious stereotypes they have mental illnesses, which are the same thing.

    The clueless case workers used to tell me, “You’re not your illness.” Which meant absolutely nothing. It’s obvious they didn’t believe this from the way they treated us. Besides “mentally ill” means something is Very Wrong with your innermost being and irredeemably so. You can’t just compensate with a seeing eye dog or wheelchair. You’re evil and rotten to the core–and you can never change.

    One of the best ways I changed what was wrong with me came by fleeing the Mental Illness Factory. The only real mental illnesses are the ones they create!

  • Shrinks enable and encourage abusive relationships. Robert Whitaker wrote about how the drugs hurt people instead of helping. Someone should write about how the character assassination called “psychiatric diagnosis” damages relationships and often leads to suicide.

  • Here are 3 techniques:

    1. Use the “leaks” the enemy has already provided. Articles from the APA journal are a good start.

    2. Subvert the enemy propaganda. For example, deface the NAMI insignia or some other brand to make it look like a skull and crossbones and put “Let them die with their rights off!” beneath.

    3. Employ social media, blogs, eletters, blogtalkradio, and vimeo. Television is a lost cause.

  • We are a very heterogeneous group with radically different, even opposing goals. This is a bigger challenge than the strength of our Common Enemy.

    Part of the problem is there are many entrances to the Dungeon of Psychiatry. We need to appreciate not all psychiatric survivors share the same set of problems.

    For example, some were carefree eccentrics who got locked up for partying too hard. Others were already suffering horribly. We came to the shrinks hoping to end the suffering. Big mistake!

  • In order to practice or encourage/enforce psychiatry you must be deceitful or deceived yourself.

    Most people are the latter. It doesn’t help that 90% of those brain dead idiots are functional illiterates who refuse to read ANYTHING. Gave up talking or trying to reason with them long ago.

    “Robert Whitaker only wrote Mad In America and Anatomy of an Epidemic to become a billionaire and wallow in luxury.”

    Whatever. If you make a statement like that you show that not only are you too lazy and unmotivated to read anything but cookbooks/frothy romances, but you’re pretty clueless that the vast majority of successful writers keep their day jobs, are supported by others, or earn money indirectly through speaking engagements, consulting, ghost writing, etc.

    None of these sheeple question how many psychiatrists are obsessed with making millions even if it involves maiming, defaming, or killing people. I guess they imagine they all work pro bono or something!

  • A lot of things in the DSM manuals might have some validity if they were not considered lifelong brain diseases. (None out of three is bad!) Rather they could be viewed as clusters of negative, counter-productive thoughts and behaviors that the person can change–with or without counseling.

    In that sense you could say I had BPD years ago and cured myself by changing the way I viewed myself and those around me. Including the men I dated. I have chosen not to date the past three years. That has helped me immensely. If I were truly BPD wouldn’t I be swinging from one relationship to another like monkey bars in a jungle gym?

  • Hi Janet. Nice article. I too have struggled to find a life apart from my controlling mom. I may have to geographically relocate for my own peace of mind.

    I love her, but she wants and needs to have me sick. Not sure when this happened. Probably after the MI folks told her I was hopeless and it was a waste of time to reason with me and treat me like a “normal” person.

    She recently had a fit when I suggested having my “bipolar” diagnosis reevaluated and (hopefully) removed. Eventually I will. It’s just a matter of finding the proper channels to go through.

  • Actually the police don’t talk that way. You are confusing police stations with rape trauma centers. And rape victims need help–usually physical as well. Then later they have to deal with flashbacks.

    Telling rape victims they don’t need help–just to turn vigilante–would offend many rape survivors. It’s obvious you’re more into your grandiose Cause than helping the suffering.

    If someone’s back was broken in a hit and run, you would be yelling at them to ignore their broken back and chase the car. Nothing wrong with them of course.

  • I consider “diagnoses of mental illness” to be libelous slander and assaults on OUR character. A lot of us here try to treat psychiatrists as charitably as possible. I believe I was kind in my comments to Eve Wood.
    Many don’t care whether we insult them or not. As long as they earn $250,000 a year they won’t abandon ship. Human nature–not just shrinks!

  • Has your wife taken any psychiatric drugs Sam? That can really atrophy the brain.

    Stress itself can damage the brain it has been shown. But psychiatric “treatment” can cause unnecessary stress–causing extra damage through stigmatizing labels, segregation, confinement, emotional abuse in day treatment. In addition to brain drugs and ECT.

    Hopefully providing a safe place and emotional support will permit your wife’s brain to heal as well as her mind.

  • If biology is not causing your emotional/mental problems beforehand it WILL play a key role after undergoing the “safe and effective treatments” supplied by your friendly neighborhood shrink.

    Assuming the brain is actually broken, they have no business trying to fix it until they know where the crack is. Neuro-surgeons don’t remove brain tumors in the dark after all!

  • They have been working hard to establish a biological cause for extreme states for nearly 200 years, Littleturtle. Granted, even experts of the human brain are pretty ignorant. They should acknowledge this, instead of lying, and pretending to have magic bullets.

    If they could show a biological cause for extreme states, psychiatrists would likely put themselves out of business. We already have neurologists to treat brain diseases. Robert Whitaker points this out in Anatomy of an Epidemic.

  • People laughed at madmen in the Middle Ages. Different from fear and hatred. And you had to be truly out of it to qualify as mad.

    Most of today’s “severely mentally ill” would not have made the cut for crazy back then. No DSM. That helped a lot. No drugs to drive them truly insane either!

  • Women may be devalued–but it’s because we’re only seen as sex objects. Sex is EVERYWHERE now. How anyone could call this sex-crazed culture repressive is beyond me. We’re a lot more like Huxley’s Brave New World than Orwell’s 1984. An anti-sex league might be a good thing–simply as a counterweight for more balanced behavior.

  • Dr. Kelmenson, I would have gladly had you for my therapist. Unfortunately, my choice of “therapy” is restricted to Community Mental Illness Centers (NOT MENTAL HEALTH!)

    Medicaid only pays for me to see “therapists” who parrot back whatever my shrink says, tell me to keep taking my drugs, encourage me to segregate myself with my “own kind,” and remind me to aim low because I’m hopeless. Who needs “help” like that?

    I’m doing better without this kind of therapy. 🙂 I’m sure you’d agree it’s counterproductive.

  • Prolonged stress can alter the brain. They acknowledge this. But, in order to preserve the integrity of Psychiatry and Big Pharma, popular opinion holds that real “mental illness” is caused by bad neuro-chemistry and the “mentally ill” are genetic throwbacks to cavemen.

    People dearly love this idea. It enables them to sell endless streams of drugs to unwilling consumers and absolves them for treating these people like crap. These evolutionary throwbacks don’t experience feelings like real people and our shabby treatment of them makes no difference. As long as we force “med compliance” on them we have done our Duty and can pat ourselves on the back, leaving the throwbacks to die in the gutter.

  • Many high ranking psychiatrists–the ones referred to by Dr. Goetzhe as “silver backs”–would easily qualify for diagnoses for personality disorders such as “sociopathy,” “psychopathy,” and “narcissism.” They don’t suffer from these–though just about everyone in the MI System does. Lucky for the silver backs no one ever thinks to “diagnose” them.

  • Frank, I have chosen a life of complete abstinence. The Mental Illness System has severely restricted my potential boyfriends.

    My therapists told me I should only date other “bipolars” since only we could understand each other. I found this extremely offensive. Even assuming these “mental illnesses” were real, they have no business trying to segregate us. Should blind people not be allowed to date seeing folks?

    She told me I needed to join NAMI to meet men. I was a member for some years. Btw, all the guys I met were dumb as posts and manly as sheep. “Mental health” will do that. Not sure how (or even if) I managed to escape becoming a mindless sheeple.

    A lot of women who enjoy crying wolf may be surprised and unhappy when no men want to date them though. There’s a MGOW movement for a reason.

    Oh, I am out of the MI System now, but live in isolation with an iotragenic disease a lot like chronic fatigue syndrome. 44 and in extreme poverty. Not a lot of matrimonial prospects.

  • I forgot to say I write fiction and am working on a novel. Psychological studies have helped me with character motivation and social interactions. Psychiatry is totally worthless for novelists, poets, or any other artists. Shrinks seem to have it in for artsy types. Probably because they couldn’t create anything beautiful if their lives depended on it. And fictitious “diseases” don’t count!

  • I’ve talked to people in institutions who held odd (likely unreal) beliefs. It’s important to know that even if someone imagines space aliens are watching his every move to harm him, his terrified feelings are real enough. His emotional suffering needs to be taken seriously.
    I try to be careful when I talk to people about anti-psychiatry not to just say, “Mental illness does not exist.”
    Often they become very angry. This anger is understandable when you realize they don’t understand what you’re saying. They think you deny people hallucinate, think weird things that aren’t real, become horribly unhappy/discouraged so they can’t get out of bed and this intense suffering never convinces people to commit suicide. People suffering from “psychosis” or “depression” think you’re accusing them of malingering or faking it.

  • I hear a lot of shrinks and other doctors whine about how they’ll get sued if they don’t hand out psych drugs like office mints. Probably exaggerating.

    But if anyone is dumb enough to demand these magical wonder pills they saw on TV although the doctor has warned them let the baby have its bottle. If its brain rots it only has its own bratty, stupid behaviors to blame.

  • Bradford, I’m concerned about self support now that I’m out of the Madhouse Without Walls. I still receive the bare basics like you. (Need to apply for food stamps again. They got canceled when I moved.)

    I’m afraid it will come out I am not receiving “treatment” and I’ll wind up homeless or institutionalized. My email is r dot nichols 42 at yahoo dot com if you are willing to advise me on what to do. I keep praying for healing, but am horribly sick all the time. Like I exchanged bizarre mental states for chronic physical illness.

  • People from the far east use a different hemisphere to process music than westerners. They use the left hemisphere–the one used for language. In Western culture we see music more as a mathematical process and use our left hemisphere.

  • He might have benefited from being taken off the drugs, attending a Hearing Voices workshop, certain forms of therapy, and maybe large amounts of vitamins like Dr. Abrams used to help people.

    I almost made a trip to Canada to see him. Lack of money played a key role in my not going. From what I know now, going off my Haldol would have brought me “back.” Also leaving the psych ghetto. Segregation is NOT integration!

  • Frank, I said they would be accused of “mental illness.” That is not saying such a thing exists. Dr. Jamison has accused many people posthumously of being “bipolar.” Interesting how many of those people led long, productive lives without “treatment.” I asked therapists who had me read “Touched by Fire” why this was so. They hemmed and hawed and got red in the face. 🙂

  • The kid sounds like he was being abused. Not necessarily by his parents, but happy kids don’t act that way and aren’t severely underweight.

    I would have asked the parents if someone–a teacher or babysitter or creepy uncle–could be harming the child. Get the kid away from his abuser! And get him to see a nutritionist, since he’s obviously malnourished.

    Therapy might help, if it was better than the canned crap they give at Community Mental Illness Centers. (Say, the kind Peter Breggin gives.)

  • Depressing thoughts cause a different part of the brain to light up than happy thoughts. They confuse cause and effect.

    If I start weight lifting to tone my arms, certain muscle groups are used for bench pressing. Are these muscle groups the only thing responsible for my decision to lift weights? Yet imaging machines would show that they light up when I flex them to push up the dumbbell.

    Do well developed biceps cause people to lift weights?

  • If you go to them of your own free will and knowing the truth that psych drugs fix nothing in your brain chemistry, it’s your choice. If your psychiatrist is well-informed and honest he won’t tell you you have a brain chemical imbalance. She will also do what she can to wean you off the drugs if you have a lot of negative effects and use them sparingly if at all.

  • Littleturtle, you have a valid point. Even if we abolished psychiatry in its current form–only locking up the violent–with maybe rest homes for the truly out of it. Say 0.5% of the population instead of 25%. Anyhow, people have already been permanently damaged after decades in the system. I doubt I can ever be gainfully employed now. Physically worn down and in pain, like I exchanged craziness for fibromyalgia.

    The victims of psychiatry may always need help. Even if it’s just financial assistance.

  • If “mental illness” could be understood to mean extremely negative emotions or self-defeating thought processes and habits I wouldn’t mind the term. As it stands folks are dumb enough to believe whatever they see on TV. That “mental illness” is an honest-to-gosh brain defect.

    I believe this causes more stigma than if we referred to them as character defects, since we can always improve our behaviors.

  • Sounds like my great-aunt. She had her brained fried numerous times along with insulin comas before her early twenties.

    My folks marveled that her mind didn’t deteriorate over the years. It seemed to get better. She lived to 87. Uh, no, she wasn’t on psych “medicine.” Grandpa strongly supported her staying away from the quacks who had abused her. He warned my folks and me about psychiatric institutes and all the drugs I took. You were right, Grandpa! 🙂

  • There was a highly romanticized psychiatrist in Longmeyer (Longmeyer wanted to romance her!) one season. She tearfully explained to him that veterans needed her to prescribe “medicines” rather than get them illegally. Without her to conduct the hours–even days–of painstaking research and lab tests to determine the precise nature of mental illness each suffered from and the exact amount of meds required to restore proper brain chemistry anything could happen.

    I laughed so hard I almost wet my pants! 😀

    Honestly, I think the writers were dumb enough to believe what they wrote too.

  • My own parents were not abusive. My childhood was screwed up without their consent or (sometimes) knowledge.

    1. I irritated a Sunday school teacher because I daydreamed and asked too many questions. She told me I was wicked and frequently regaled all her pupils with tales of Hell. My brother and I had nightmares. Years later our parents found out. We didn’t tell on Mrs. X because she was a grown up and could do no wrong. We were taught to always obey grown ups unless they were strangers offering us rides or candy.

    2. Dad got kept getting fired from churches and we would be homeless for several months at a time. The Church of Christ treats its clergy horribly and has no bishop to help preachers and families relocate. I started to have nervous attacks as a teen after trying out with Dad at multiple churches. Fainting spells and agoraphobia. Quit talking to anyone but immediate family members and a very few friends for much of high school.

    3. Was sexually harassed for two years in high school. Almost every day of the school year. It sounds silly, but I was a very modest girl and the horrible stuff the lizards at school described made me physically sick. I couldn’t keep my food down. I tried to wear baggy clothes that covered everything below my neck and keep my hips from moving when I walked! Nothing helped! I went on very low calorie diets. My curves were responsible for inciting lust despite my best efforts to do right and I hated my body for a long time.

    In college things were better externally. But I continued to hyperventilate and have flashbacks. Even small social groups terrified me. Finally I couldn’t leave my dorm room.

    My therapist sighed and sent me to the shrink. The rest is history. 🙁

  • I want to write a book called “Shut Up and Take Your Prozac! The Real Reason Churches are Embracing Psychiatry.” And, as you can guess, the reason they are is not Christian love.

    Some of the meanest, cruelest bigots I know attend pro-psychiatry churches. And they’re deluded into thinking they’re dripping with compassion when the exact opposite is true.

    If NAMI holds meetings at a church I refuse to join or donate to any parachurch groups they support. Why don’t they invite street dealers to hold parties in the church basement?

    Someone needs to ask Rick Warren, “Since Psychiatry couldn’t keep Matt from killing himself, why do you think it will save others?” Sounds like Saddleback hands out Zoloft, Prozac, and Abilify in place of communion wafers. The god they really worship.

    Most “Christians” are practicing materialists and don’t really believe in God, angels or souls. The atheist Szasz was more religious than they.

  • We’re living in stressful times with little social interaction for one thing. Our diets aren’t that great. Limited sleep and exercise. And way too many Rx drugs! I honestly wonder how many “bipolar” and other “SMI” cases stem directly from bad SSRI reactions. I don’t see anyone sponsoring a survey in the near future.

  • Here’s a 13 for Robert Nikkel’s consideration. Every time a parent drags in an adult child to be diagnosed for an SMI, the whole family must be subjected to psychiatric screening. The Golden Child, all the Flying Monkeys, and the “Narcissist” him/herself. (I am not using “Narcissist” as a term for “mental illness” but the central role in dysfunctional family dynamics. “Flying Monkeys,” “Golden Child,” and “Family Scapegoat” can’t be found in the DSM 5 but are equally apt labels for the roles in the drama. Drama Queen Bee would be a better term for the person at the center of the mess.)

    That would put a monkey wrench in the NAMI mommy movement. Shrinks will be glad to gain more consumers and sell more drugs/ECT; so they would agree to this idea. “Mental illness” is supposed to be hereditary after all. 🙂

  • Mad houses have been around for centuries. Remember Bedlam back in the Dark Ages? People off their rockers would wander around. If they got violent they would be locked up–by relatives if they had any.

    Often these “mad” folks came back through getting three hots and a cot and lots of TLC. In The Prince and the Pauper, Miles Hendrick thinks young King Edward VI is nuts. He pities the boy, protects him, and determines to “cure” him by showing him kindness. Finally he discovers the truth about the “mad” kid and hits the jackpot. Like “Undercover Boss.”

    I have read a lot of books about how madmen/women returned to sanity without drugs, regardless of what drug merchants want us to believe. Lucky for them, few read books now. I really should write an essay about the subject.

    A lot of people who would be accused of “mental illness” now led productive, happy lives without psychiatric interference. Now Pharma-Psychiatry wants to eat 25% of the population. Damn greedy buzzards! Haven’t you consumed enough of humanity already?

    I was going to become an English professor before Psychiatry shattered my life.

  • I’m reading a book called Crony Capitalism about ??? crony capitalism. This legalized bribery built into our society is bad on every level. But when it comes to “mental health” it’s ten times worse than most other areas.

    Peter Breggin explains it best. People hate and fear the “mentally ill” and don’t care what happens to us–as long as they imagine we won’t gun them down in mass shootings or hack them to pieces with a butcher knife.

    Anyone with half a brain could see more psych drugs aren’t the answer since more people take them then ever and the rates of random violence have skyrocketed. Even if you discount tardive akathasia, something ain’t working!

  • Total opposite of the original principles of A.A.

    I understand they are trying to “treat the disease” by putting alcoholics on other mind altering drugs. Probably more dangerous and addictive than booze.

    Remember “Eat this, not that.” “Take this mind-altering, addictive substance. Not that.”

    Lying hucksters.

    My boyfriend cured himself of alcoholism. How? He quit drinking. With no alcohol his brain chemistry returned to normal. Amazing, huh?

  • In my case I was paranoid and hallucinating from 3 weeks without sleep. A “side” effect of Anafranil.

    I told my parents to please let me skip classes and sleep a few days to recuperate. My doctor told Mom I should be better immediately after 24 hours since Anafranil was out of my system. I obviously had classic Schizophrenia.

    He didn’t even talk to me, just heard Mom’s concerns and told her I was hopelessly crazy and needed immediate hospitalization. Terrifying for all of us but Dr. Snake-Oil! Just another day for that quack.

  • Some forms of madness come from malnutrition, so large supplements could cure them. I could stand better nutrition; my body feels very depleted now. I can no longer fast as a spiritual discipline and need regular meals with protein though I’m not diabetic.

    Here’s something to consider, Rossa. If drugs like abilify block our bodies from absorbing nutrients (I believe they caused my bout with severe anemia) and the psychosis is caused–even in part–by malnutrition then they are ruining the “consumer’s” ability to ever return to sanity.

    I know you’re sympathetic. My mom was like you once. But over the years she embraced her role as the dedicated mother of a schizo/bipolar daughter. She knows I have changed, but not why yet. It’s hard for her to accept even what should be considered improvements in my personality. 🙁

  • As I said, I’m not angry at Robert. But his article makes me want to sigh. Reminds me of 1980’s MTV commercials. “Anti-psychiatry. Some people just DON’T GET IT.”

    Would you rather I beat you with a wooden bat or a 2 by 4?
    How about neither?
    That’s not an option!

    About number 13, I have successfully reintegrated myself into the mainstream community to some extent. How? Robert Nikkel asks.

    I weaned myself off those mind altering drugs they lied to me about. They told me I would run around unable to talk and frothing like a rabid animal if I went off them. Liars.

    I also moved to a place where no one knows some quack labeled me hopelessly insane. I self identify as having fibromyalgia. I suffer from all the symptoms of ME from iatrogenic damage.

    I manage to go out a couple times a week. I keep clean and don’t slump over. Also lost 40 pounds so far. 🙂 I joined a church and writer’s group. No one guesses I’m supposed to be a loon.

    If NAMI had their way I’d be “meds compliant” and trapped in those horrible ghettos where self-described nuts get together and talk about how crazy we are. Hey, we’re all exactly alike after all, right? Nothing but “brain diseases” embodied in flesh! My heart arrhythmia would be worse instead of better too.

  • Uh oh. You’re going to have a lot of angry comments Robert.

    I’m not angry at you, myself. I would be happy to eliminate coercion in psychiatry–whether through force or deception. Banning television drug commercials and forcing Big Pharma to edit their ad brochures so they don’t tell lies about chemical imbalances in the brain would be a great start.

    I also would only allow violent people to be locked up. And they could choose prison over the madhouse and opt out of “treatments” that do nothing to prevent violence and may make it worse sometimes.

    The Texas shooter had tried to murder his eleven-month-old son. If he had been locked up as an ordinary felon he would not have been free to commit that mass murder. My guess is he “took his meds” and had “good insight.” I can’t help myself I’m bipolar. Psychiatry makes no distinction between guilt or innocence, so they have no business in the legal system.

  • Julie Greene criticizes therapists in her blog, calling them “friendship prostitutes.” Sometimes this seems to be the case.

    Julie has started a business as a life coach–not a therapist. Her website is Her goal is to prevent young folks from being sucked into the System.

    No, I’m not affiliate marketing. I think she is providing a useful service and am glad to help her out. She didn’t ask me to, either.

  • I am on Medicaid, so the only “therapist” I can afford regularly is one who belongs to a Mental Illness Factory Center. She (female 90% of the time) does little but parrot what the doctor says. “You’ll be sick for life. Keep taking your ‘meds.’ Give up on your dreams. Keep taking your ‘meds.'” Encouraging stuff like that. 🙂

    I no longer see a therapist. My depression has finally gone away.

  • Sadly going through withdrawal has damaged me physically. I have a really bad case of what feels like CFIDS though my thoughts and feelings are clearer. It’s not that uncommon in those who come off psych drugs after decades of “compliance.” Some symptoms had already started while I took the drugs. Going off Effexor–slow and gradual as the process was–exacerbated the physical exhaustion, etc. I believe I will be better off in the long run than if I stayed on the crap though. A friend of mine has been taking a cocktail and is tired and sick all the time. Those powerful drugs can wear you out. They do not occur naturally in the human body, so the “insulin for diabetes” analogy is hogwash.

  • Bradford, you forgot:

    Psychiatrist: Take these new wonder pills to make you feel better every day! Even if you quit feeling feverish. It’s essential to take them every day for the rest of your life!

    Patient: Why is it essential?

    Psychiatrist: My kid just got accepted to Bryn Mawr. Suckers like you are putting him through college!

  • Actually souls can be truly evil as well as good. I prefer loving soulless pets to cruel, twisted humans.

    As C.S. Lewis once said, “We call men brutes when they act worse than animals. True brutes lack the intelligence to perform such acts.” (Paraphrase.)

  • Phoenx, sadly your friend did have a chemical imbalance–created by the quacks themselves with those damn uppers they call “antidepressants.” That nearly ruined my life. Took over 25 years to get it back again. Makes me sick to think how often this happens.

    A bunch of people diagnosed with “bipolar” caused by SSRI reactions should get together to file a class action lawsuit. We wouldn’t gain from it financially nor bankrupt Pharma-Psychiatry. But with enough publicity it could deal another blow to psychiatry’s credibility.

  • With a computer that malfunctions you can examine the hardware. If you can’t find anything wrong with the hardware do you:

    A. Examine the software for potential problems.

    B. Say “It MUST be the hardware!” Then proceed to hit it with a hammer or open up the case to pour corrosive acid into the circuitry.

    B. will undoubtedly alter the computer hardware. No denying that.

  • I have experienced what I consider madness myself.

    Some will be angry at me for saying this but not all psych survivors are carefree eccentrics or party animals with gas lighting family members who dragged us kicking and screaming to the shrinks.

    In my case I was already suffering horribly. I kept having flashbacks to trauma in high school (sexually harassed every day) and grew too frightened to leave my dorm room in college. Others are afraid to eat–because they hate their bodies or feel guilty or need a sense of control.

    I knew a man in a group home who kept yelling at his voices, “F___ you, XXXXs!” He would beat his head with his fist to silence them; one eye was blind, probably from the blows he dealt himself. His suffering was real enough. He was on a lot of drugs too. Ineffective crap at best.

  • I assume they did brain scans and blood work to figure out you had a brain disease? Thank goodness that new wonder drug kept your head from spontaneous combustion! (Mental illness kills.)

    Btw, I have never known a psychiatrist who did pro bono work. They get paid a lot more than therapists. And by quickly prescribing drugs they can quadruple their income from $200 an hour to $800. I get by on less than $800 a month thanks to the magic of psychiatry.

    Peter Breggin and Goetzhe are both MDs who have published articles here. Feel free to read some of those.

    But if you’re determined to cling to the Broken Brain paradigm–if you enjoy considering yourself hopelessly insane and genetically inferior to the “normal” majority–there are other sites you might prefer. Seriously. Healthy Place, Bipolar Burble, NAMI forums to name a few.

  • I can’t remember who said it, Steve, but a doctor who gives seminars here argued there could be short term benefit in limited use of neuroleptics (2-6 weeks.) In his opinion there was never a good reason to use SSRI’s since the costs out weighed the benefits.

    I went off Abilify in 10 weeks. A few headaches and some diarrhea, but nothing major. Effexor took about a year. After more than 3 months off it entirely I feel physically sick half the time. I’m a success story compared to most others.

  • I loved “Lorenzo’s Oil.” In his case he became totally paralyzed as his nerves deteriorated. Bitter sweet ending. His dad (played in the movie by Nick Nolte) wasn’t a doctor or scientist. But his love for his son motivated him to find a solution for Lorenzo’s problem. And he saved many other children.

  • Actually that aphorism was in response to Levine’s plea that we work out a compromise. Even if we were willing, Psychiatry is not. Did Hitler compromise with his intended victims? Did the KKK offer to compromise with the Freedom Riders? Abusive husbands will offer to compromise–if the battered wife returns, but this never works out well.

  • This doesn’t take into account all the iatrogenic disability caused by these “safe and effective treatments.” Many of us are too damaged to work and forced to live on tax dollars. Then we develop horrible physical problems and need medical treatment for those–also expensive. The shrinks want to cause more long term disability than ever, starting with small children. Sickening–in an all too literal sense!

  • Julia, MY major beef with psych labels is they’re life sentences. I think a couple broad categories to describe emotional suffering: depression, psychosis should be enough. But if the person comes to their senses and no longer thinks the CIA is spying on them or stays curled up in a fetal position all day, why do they need the label? Shouldn’t they be pronounced cured? If I have influenza should I have a permanent flu diagnosis years after I get over it?

    In the old days they used to pronounce madmen cured when they came to their senses. Now they don’t–partly because the drugs usually prevent full recovery. More importantly because telling someone they’re hopeless allows Mad Scientists to sell more drugs.

  • So sorry Chris! Sounds like the “side” effects from drugs were passed from your wife to your daughter like a curse.

    In your daughter’s case the brain really was at fault–neurological impairment. This does not excuse the way they used her for dangerous experiments like a lab rat!

  • During my last lock up I realized psychiatry is a pack of lies. I behaved myself with grace and courtesy like someone locked up for civil disobedience.

    Regardless of how others treat me, I don’t have to respond in kind. I don’t argue with fellow patients who talk to invisible people or delusional shrinks who think they’re helping us with massive druggings and frying our brains.

    It helps that I heard lots of stories as a kid about brave heroes who faced imprisonment and death for doing the Right Thing. Damage my brain, body and reputation as you may, kill me even, but you “Soul Doctors” can’t touch my soul. That doesn’t belong to you guys! Sorry. 😀

  • Their advanced medical degrees are offset by vested interests in prescribing $$$$. Many believe they are helping us–because seeing themselves as cruel brutes would be painful.

    It’s amazing how good we humans are at self deception. Even if those around us can see through our lies we can still convince ourselves of falsehoods.

    Mainstream psychiatrists desperately need insight into their own motivations. Perhaps they are more out of touch with reality than the patient who thinks he’s Abraham Lincoln or talks to invisible space aliens? Willfully harming others for their own financial gain, power and prestige is rotting their souls.

  • After my “diagnosis” of Schizoaffective Disorder I couldn’t quit wanting to kill myself. Still have a bunch of damn stigmatizing labels hanging over me. I avoid doctors whenever possible. I share this with no one; even the psych quacks understand why people want to “pass.” And now that I can think clearly and observe normal social interactions again no one would believe me if I told them about these labels. Seriously.

    So lucky I don’t have tardive dyskinesea like a friend of mine was developing before I fled the Mental Illness System. Smart lady, competent and well educated. Then the Shrinks got her. After years of “safe and effective treatment” she can barely string two intelligent sentences together. 🙁 And she looks horrible too from irreversible nerve damage.

    Anyone who thinks being called a Schizophrenic or Bipolar saved their soul can don a T-shirt that says, “Kick Me I’m Bipolar!” Or “Not My Fault My Brain’s Psycho!” with pictures of Norman Bates with a butcher knife or Lizzy Borden with an ax. Have fun stigma busting. A lot of us prefer to sit out though.

    People will treat you like garbage even if you are “meds compliant.” Even if he’s wearing a muzzle and strapped to a gurney no one wants to hang with Hannibal the Cannibal.

  • A lot of us are–dare I say it?–smarter than the “average consumer.” Those of us coerced into “Day Treatment” probably got put down and yelled at a lot. The case workers can’t stand us because we read too much, ask questions they can’t answer, and lower THEIR self esteem by being too smart.

  • I too was told I was incurably insane. For 20 years I acted on that premise.

    Tapered off the drugs and have my mind back. Relocated to where no one knows the shame they pinned on me.

    Some people do get their labels removed; Dr. Crummey is wrong about that. Even if it is harder to obtain than a divorce.

    I will try my hardest to get my stigma removed. If I fail I’ll move to Mexico where they don’t have a massive psych system run amuck.

  • It’s the kind of statement no one can verify or disprove. Therefore it’s popular with those who support mainstream psychiatry.

    “X number of people have a severe mental illness but are undiagnosed.” How, the heck can anyone know that? How many times does the doorbell ring when no one can hear it? Maybe shrinks who make these statements are just announcing quotas of victims to “diagnose” and “treat.”

  • 11 years ago a friend of mine died from a grand mal seizure caused by a neuroleptic at age 29.

    She was accused of Schizophrenia. She spent a lot of time in psych wards–not because she was dangerous or uncooperative–but the neuroleptics caused horrible reactions. She was unusually sensitive to them.

    I hold NAMI responsible for her death and countless others like her. They don’t care how many of us die as long as we are “meds compliant” and die with our rights off!

    There’s blood on your hands, NAMI.

  • 90% of all suicides have psychiatric diagnoses. Yep. Being treated like vermin and put on electroshock and drugs that cause seizures encourages suicidal behavior. Fancy that.

    And, according to drug commercials, these wonderful cures for all that ails humanity can cause suicidal behaviors. One minor side effect.

    Most of us here have gone off these drugs and are no longer suicidal. Like me. My IQ has gone up 10 points and people find me more likeable. I act normally and refuse to self identify as an “Evil Crazy” like NAMI and SAMHSA want me to. Frankly I don’t care if they cut off SAMHSA’s funding entirely. From what I hear they hurt folks in our positions more than they help.

  • I’m glad some have benefited that way Steve. Unfortunately they injected me with a megadose of Haldol that made me truly psychotic and spastic with daily seizures. I was already feeling weird from 3 weeks without sleep on an anafranil trip. Haldol made it 10 times worse. Instead of saying, “Gee, the Haldol doesn’t seem to help. Let’s try something else,” they told me to get used to taking these horror-inducing pills till I died and gave me some cogentin.

  • This whole thing seems counterproductive. If psychiatrists forced us to chain smoke 5 packs of cigarettes daily to treat SMIs (Too bad Big Tobacco never thought of this and teamed up with Psychiatry and Big Pharma!) and encouraged us to take Vitamin C it would make as much sense.

    I had been reading how dangerous psych drugs were and how they did not target parts of the brain gone berzerk as I had been told they did. During this time I attended Day Treatment. A well-meaning but clueless case worker told us to take good care of our health, exercise, eat right, sleep enough, and keep taking our “meds.” I thought, So much for taking care of our health! Not out loud of course.

  • I am very sick now. Physically, not mentally. I recovered by disobeying my shrink and weaning myself off psych drugs.

    I daresay there are many like me who are truly sick and disabled from decades on drugs. I have a good friend who is still “compliant.” At least as sick and tired as me and her mind is going though she used to have an IQ close to 140. I guess I escaped just in time.

  • “Just as comfortable with poetry as pathology.” Why not? The whole discipline of psychiatry is based on a conceit or elaborate metaphor–more suitable for the arts than the sciences. Ask our friend Dr. Pies.

    Just don’t expect your shrink to quote sonnets from Shakespeare in the near future. 😉

    R.D. Laing was a poet. But the A.P.A. doesn’t like his writings for some reason.

  • As Peter Breggin has pointed out, even experts of the brain are pretty ignorant of it’s chemical makeup and what–if any–chemical makeup composes a healthy brain.

    Assume, for the sake of argument, that brain chemistry does cause extreme behaviors or “mental illness.” They still have no idea what parts of the brain are at fault or how to correct them. Perhaps they’re suppressing dopamine when it could be some brain chemical no one has even discovered. Maybe they are causing the brain to put out more of the very chemicals at fault to begin with?

  • If by “mental disorder” you mean bizarre, counter-productive thoughts and behaviors I heartily agree. I have been so tormented by my own mental processes I could barely leave my own room. That still does not mean my brain or genes were responsible. I now have a real brain disease (TBI) from decades of “safe and effective treatments.”

  • I like the idea of “mental illness” actually being what Glasser called creative symptoming. It makes sense that in addition to trauma and angst many of us are highly creative. Creativity is a positive trait, but overusing it as a coping mechanism (not consciously) can lead to an inability to function in the world as we know it.

    The way neuroleptics “work” is by destroying creativity along with other cognitive functions that make us human.

  • I appreciate how you defend the defenseless when few else will, Dr. Breggin. Is it the Human Brain mainstream psychiatrists see as a cancer though or their patients–perceived by them to be subhuman? If your patient or consumer is a dangerous malignant tumor on society you do whatever is needed to shock them into inaction–like a malignant growth a surgeon cannot safely remove. If the growth goes into remission and dies on its own so much the better!

    They view their own brains as flawless, infallible instruments. As winners in the evolutionary race their DNA is perfect and they themselves are genetic supermen with godlike omniscience and super powers from unlocking all the mysteries of the universe.

  • Steve, I freely sought out a deliverance minister and he helped me. He treated me for free (2 four hour sessions.) He only treats people who are willing. He was much more respectful than any psychiatrist I’ve seen and didn’t damage my organs.

    Not saying this is for everyone. It must never be forced. More helpful than psychiatry in my experience though.

    To all you atheists/agnostics, you can say I benefited from a placebo effect. Still safer than drugs or electroshock.

  • From, “The devil made me buy this dress!” to “My bipolar mania made me buy this dress!”

    Btw, Ms. Bipolar Burble loves to talk about her fits of rage and hatred of people, then excuse it. “It’s just my Bipolar acting up.” Easier than saying, “Sorry. I was wrong.” Many people in the system use their diagnosis as an excuse. I plead guilty to it myself; chalk it up in part to my “good insight.”

  • Littleturtle, many here want to ban COERCIVE psychiatry. If you find psychiatry helpful and seek it out freely that would be voluntary, not coercive. There are enough like you that even if we outlawed psychiatry by force it still would not be the end of the profession.

  • My condolences Dr. Wood. It must be hard to enter a field to help suffering people and watch them get worse and die decades early with 0% recovery.

    Many of us here are not psychiatrists nor specialists in the “mental health” field. I am a disillusioned ex-consumer who finally realized my mood swings were drug induced all along. I also feel guilty for turning suicidal friends in to be locked up and making an 8-year-old take his “meds.”

    Even after reading many books that psych drugs did not work I was afraid to go off; I knew withdrawal could make me very sick and cause hallucinations. In order to avoid suspicion I continued group therapy and other nonsense, fearful of saying the wrong thing. Like a member of the former Soviet Union who could no longer believe communist propaganda and dreamed of defecting.

    Finally I relocated quietly. I promised to find new “mental health services” and didn’t. My head has yet to explode. 🙂

  • We also underestimate human stupidity and refusal to learn anything. Most people who believe psychiatry’s claims are functional illiterates and get all their education off the tube. (I exclude psychiatric professionals. For them it’s more vested interest and self deception than lack of knowledge.)

    “Evil will always defeat Good, because Good is stupid.” Dark Helmet from Spaceballs.

  • Congratulations Brynne! I managed to escape by lying to everyone. Makes me sick to think about it. 🙁 But none of my family would believe me. What else could I do?

    Aside from one melt down several months ago (forced to live in single wide with parents too long) I am acting perfectly normal. Nobody suspects, though the doctor told me I would have pronounced mood swings without my cocktail. He had no idea I was off my “mood stabilizer” and neuroleptic for over 6 months when he made that claim.

    I’m still physically sicker than a dog from withdrawing after 25+ years drug use. I can think more clearly, more rational AND creative. No longer moody or suicidal. But impossible to work right now.

  • Many psychologists are locked into “mental health” community centers where they work closely with shrinks, social workers, case workers, etc. as a “treatment team.” Do you think it would be good for a psycho-therapist’s career if they started telling folks they see that their drugs are their biggest problem? I don’t think so.

    Philip Hickey and others like him have to open private practices. A lot of work. Easier to go with the flow and live in denial, lying to yourself along with everyone else.

  • Riley C. can’t spell. Where did he buy his diploma? Lol.

    The damage sustained by “mentally ill” brains is in direct correlation to time spent in treatment. Until they agree to test treatment naive brains they can’t prove whether the illness or treatment is responsible. Will Hall and other ex-consumers are bright enough. The glazed, vacant eyes occur in the med compliant along with lower cognitive functioning.

    Mind altering drugs can damage the brain. Wow!

    The title itself proves it’s a “straw man argument” and not for clear minded, critical thinkers.

  • Until I acknowledged that someone had done me a grave wrong forgiving him was impossible. How can I forgive someone who was never even at fault? Forgiveness is not repression/denial.

    Forgiveness was my personal choice. But people I have known told me that pretending it wasn’t that bad and playing the nice Christian girl would enable me to forgive quickly and easily with no real effort….They meant well. But what they taught me was B. S.

    If you don’t own up to the fact that you have been deeply wronged forgiveness is not even an option.

  • Something for consideration. We at MIA are an unusually heterogeneous group. Even if we discount the dissenters/trolls and other pro-psychiatry folks our dissimilar backgrounds and experiences make it hard to understand each other.

    Even the doors we entered the MI system through vary greatly. Some of us partied a little too hard and were accused of Bipolar Mania. Others had legal trouble and were persuaded to plead the “mental illness” excuse. (Big mistake!) Others had unusual experiences brought on by trauma or stress–hearing voices, very non-mainstream beliefs. Others were brought to shrinks by gaslighting relatives or SOs. Others like me, had a severe reaction to an SSRI and wound up with the nice little stigmatizing label of “Bipolar.”

    We need to realize that when John says he’s mad about being told he was bipolar because he was locked up after getting stoned Mary is not discounting his experience when she tells him she started hearing voices after she realized her uncle had raped her when she was 7. Mary may have sought professional help because people told her she needed it and her pain was real. Because their experiences differ John may be into social activism while Mary is still trying to process the trauma of being raped AND buffaloed by the psychiatric racket.

  • Mom’s therapist cured her depression by teaching her it was okay to be angry and she should pursue the career she wanted instead of trying to be the Perfect Housewife everyone at church wanted her to be. The guy who had molested Mom was dead at that time. Revenge/justice isn’t always possible. Some folks would rather be mean, bitter and pick fights with people who didn’t abuse them than quit feeling pain. Odd I know!

    If you want to drink your enemy’s blood you should hire a vigilante hit-man not a therapist.

  • “If I were you I’d worry about that zero tolerance thing of yours coming around to bite you in the a__.” No fear of that. In order for that to happen I would have to be able to implement it first.

    Frank, I’ll bet you never had to “run the gauntlet” in school. Walk down the hall amidst wolf whistles and cat calls, guys describing in graphic detail not only parts of your body but how they would love to drag you off and….

    It’s not just “human nature.” Victorian teens didn’t act that way. So, yes, guys CAN refrain from acting like monsters if they put their minds to it.

    Sexual harassment is not rape or assault. But all three are acts of hatred for women. In my case I didn’t recover for years and got sucked into the psychiatric system because of this. Not just eccentric behavior from partying too hard.

    Guys who laugh off this kind of thing as no big deal and something “those dumb broads” should shut up and take make me want to puke!

  • Yes, shame on them dang-nabbed Quakers who treated unloved folks with dignity and compassion! No doubt the Underground Railroad was also some nefarious scheme.

    For my part I was suffering in college. Instead of compassion I got psychiatry. For those of you who spit upon human kindness I guess you can embrace lives of misanthropy and go live in isolation somewhere like Christopher McKnight. Hope you don’t break a leg in your new hermit lifestyle.

    Then there’s good ole TF who imagines Tony Robbins, Dr. Pies, David Ramsey and the woman down the street who gives therapeutic massages at the chiropractor’s are all exactly alike and do EXACTLY THE SAME THING.


  • I mentioned Moral Therapy in a forum for survivors of spiritual abuse. A nurse practitioner sneered at this, implying it was impossible to help brain diseased people with compassion.

    She considered herself a humanitarian because she opposed “anti-psychiatry” churches. When I told her cruelty I had observed in pro-psychiatry churches she was truly baffled! She claimed they must not be educated enough about the scientific validity of psychiatry.

    I would have to say the opposite, Nurse Patsy.

  • If I walk briskly for 45 minutes every day certain muscle groups would be employed during the walks. Over time the muscles would also grow stronger and change in shape or size.

    Would you say, “Rachel’s leg muscles are causing her to walk every morning. She has no choice in the matter. The alterations we can observe over time prove her legs have a progressive muscular disease causing this odd behavior of morning exercise”?

    Confusion of cause and effect.

  • Amen to that!! My parents did not cause my breakdown. The guys who sexually harassed me in high school on a daily basis for two years caused that.

    My shrink caused my expulsion from college and encouraged my family to view me as a Disease rather than a human being.

    I went to him of my own free will. My suffering was real enough and I was desperate.

    When some people say, “My ‘mental illness’ is real,” defensively, they imagine we are denying their emotional pain. Not so! Your pain is very real. Just not an incurable brain disease.

  • The successful therapies are only practiced on consenting people. The only way to truly alter someone AGAINST THEIR WILL is to perform various acts of emotional/physical cruelty to break them. Abusive partners, parents, and cults do this. So does mainstream psychiatry.

    In the case of the psych drugs I took, I was not truly consenting. They lied to me that they were “fixing” my brain. Like a friend of mine a creep tricked into a bigamous marriage because it was getting cold and she wouldn’t let him move in till they married. He beat her afterward, btw.

  • The Public largely believes psychiatric “experts” have the role of John Anderton in The Minority Report played by Tom Cruise (Oh the irony!)

    This would be more accurate if John Anderton’s police force had been based on a fraud. They staged a few crimes to predict first. Then they set up an agency to arrest innocent people for arbitrary reasons. Great way to control society!

  • My psychiatrists would attribute all improvement I made to med compliance and all set backs to missing doses or on rare occasions some admitted “maybe they aren’t working.” This was especially funny when a psychiatrist noted my “improved effect” or natural smiling and said the drugs she prescribed must be just right. I had been tapering off my abilify unbeknownst to her and getting better despite her course of treatment!

  • Part of it is coldness and lack of compassion in our society, JClaude. A while back there was less demand for therapists because people had more friends to talk to. And members of the clergy were more willing to talk to people in pain too.

    Sorry your career took a hit for obeying your conscience. Dietrich Bonhoeffer thought standing up against an unjust oppressor was worth dying for. I agree. At least you won a moral victory.

  • JClaude I’m not anti-therapy. What some are (understandably) protesting here no more deserves the title “therapy” than electroshock does brain surgery.

    Not all forms of therapy are alike. Forcing memory repression is abuse not THERAPY and goes against all hope of RECOVERY. TirelessFighter means well, but thinks all therapists coerce rape victims into denying it ever happened.

    My mom benefited from therapy years after being molested as a kid. Yes, child molesters should be locked up, but despite the closure these kids/adults still need to live with the after math. Just because the perp is dead or in prison doesn’t solve everything.

    I have benefited from CBT myself. I’m not against Mindfulness. Some swear by it, but the kind I had was a warped form I was forced to undergo for 2 hours at a time.

    I am interested in the therapy Peter Breggin practices and Choice Theory/Reality Therapy as taught by William Glasser.

    “Moral therapy” wouldn’t count as therapy by today’s standards. Basically they took otherwise homeless people and treated them with respect and TLC and loved them back to sanity. Nothing wrong with that!

  • Ironically on many support sites for abuse victims they always talk about “my abusive bipolar ex”. Often “my abusive ex with undiagnosed bipolar.” He was a jerk and cruel therefore he must be bipolar, right?

    I once knew a sweet little lady–a joy to know. She had a truly evil, abusive husband. “Gertrude” believed he was “mentally ill” with a brain disease called “bipolar” because MI professionals told her he couldn’t help his nastiness. If she could talk him into taking his “meds” everything would be fine and he could be the nice, charming guy she married. My guess is that charming guy Gertie married was the old bait and switch.

    Sadly, because Gertie was kind-hearted she felt she should stay with her sick husband. Others around her, including friends with SMI labels told her “Gertie, your husband is cruel and abusive because he enjoys it. It’s a choice he makes and no pill can fix that.”

    Gertie claimed his “meds” made him nice. My guess is they tranquilized him so he was too doped up to smash Gertie’s beloved art projects or hit her. They kept wearing off and he liked being vicious anyhow. (See Phil Hickey’s article for this month.) Poor Gertie wound up on SSRIs herself.

    That said, Gertie’s story was the only one I knew where the “bipolar” spouse was the actual abuser. I do know of several cases where the “SMI” spouse/partner was abused and no one took it seriously. The abuser was often a pro at gas-lighting as you can imagine.

  • My own two cents to Rossa’s comment. In addition to what SE says about churches profiting monetarily from the psychiatric racket (indirectly usually) there’s what I call the social phenomenon of “Shut up and take your Prozac!”

    People going through a crisis are stressful to be around. Those who get trapped in the MI System are even worse off. My drugs numbed me to social cues and actually made me more outspoken in saying things that bothered folks. They made me too tired to properly attend to hygiene.

    Anyhow the drugs and MI systems make it easier to dispose of annoying bothersome members. If they are discouraged lock them up for clinical depression.

    What Miss Brown? You’re miserable and feel no one would care if you died? Obviously you aren’t on your life saving meds. Quit bothering us. Go home, take your prescription and call your therapist. We’re not professionals and can’t deal with YOUR KIND here.

    The rest of humanity have souls, but YOU have a mental illness. In fact you ARE nothing but a mental illness. Shut up and take your “meds.”

    There. Thank God Miss Brown went home! We’ve done our Christian duty and can forget about rejects like her.

  • Good point Nancy99.

    As Bob Whitaker wrote in Anatomy of an Epidemic if we have actual brain problems we see neurologists or brain doctors. Not psychiatrists.

    If you went to see a psychiatrist because you suffered from a cancerous tumor he would ask you to describe your symptoms. Chronic headaches, lethargy (can’t sleep from pain), problems concentrating, extreme sadness….

    Aha! You must have depressive disorder. Take 150 mg of Effexor every day and see me 3 months from now for refills.

    So you go home, take the magical SNRI he prescribed and die of brain cancer.

  • Fiachra, I think leaving day treatment helped me tremendously. I have learned “normal” behaviors from mainstream society, not segregation in a heavily drugged and infantilizing subculture.

    Drugs, day treatment, and my reputation as a nut job were holding me back. No one I interact with now can tell what’s wrong with me. I tell them I’m on disability because of autoimmune problems–which is partially true. I shouldn’t be reevaluated for benefits for at least another 5 years. Before then I should feel well enough to earn my own living as a freelancer.

  • An SSRI created my “Bipolar” disorder. The doctors fed my mom some bovine excrement about how Anafranil had only “unmasked” my insanity lying there all along. They claimed I would need “mood stabilizers” and neuroleptics as well as SSRI’s. Cha-ching! $$$$

    What nobody thought to ask was: Since all these d__n drugs do is “mask” or hide symptoms anyhow wouldn’t quitting SSRI’s be a lot easier than taking other crap? That could “re-mask” the original problem. No more mania. Wow.

  • I’m coming out as a murderous psychopath. Gonna wear a T-shirt with this diagnosis at a Glen Close stigma reduction event. Want to join us? We have uniforms with “Kick me! I’m Bipolar! and “Can’t Help My Broken Brain!” embroidered tastefully in front. In the back–right in the seat of the trousers–are bull’s eye targets in attractive, eye-popping colors.
    Some normals will also attend. Their white shirts have “I’m With Crazy” emblazoned in black. Some may even condescend to pat your back or head when the cameras zone in.

  • In 19th century America some Quakers practiced moral therapy on people out of touch with reality.

    The place was unlocked and unguarded–a nice house in the country. The people in charge addressed the others respectfully and treated them with TLC.

    Probably cheaper to run than most halfway houses. And the recovery rate was high, so many “cases” were not long term. Only really out-of-touch people who couldn’t care for themselves were sent there. They would recover from the crisis and reintegrate themselves.

  • Psych drugs frequently cause diabetes. Somehow I escaped without it. I have lost 10% of my body weight effortlessly thanks to going off that crap so that should help too.

    Good luck going off the Celexa Littleturtle. “Slow and steady wins the race.” ~Aesop.

    If psychiatry is able to establish a provable bio-marker there would be justification for trying to fix it. Until then they should leave healthy brain tissue alone! Those mind altering drugs are not magic bullets and created psychotic symptoms in me when I took them. I believe Dr. Moncrieff wrote about this phenomenon called tardive psychosis.

  • I read an article by a shrink about how the internet is causing an “outbreak of agnosognosia.” He had to do quite a bit of rhetorical tap dancing, since the psychiatric premise is all “mental illnesses” are honest-to-gosh brain disorders that must be shocked and/or drugged out of existence. And that would include the A word.

    His premise was agnosognosia, like all Mi’s must be genetic. But the internet must be responsible for triggering this naughty gene with all its paranoid conspiracy theories.

    A more applicable term for agnosognosia is dissident. But that really sounds more political than medical so it won’t do.

    What a mistake it was for them to let us learn to read and write! Maybe they could invent a new “medicine” that would cause blindness. Not as an inconvenient side effect but the primary benefit to be achieved.

  • The grandma erroneously thought she was giving her grandson medicine to keep his brain from deteriorating. Ignorance is not good, but it is different from outright malice. This woman would NEVER knowingly put any kid on speed.

    She should educate herself more. That is true. But the bulk of blame rests with those who fooled her and countless others into thinking dangerous amphetamines are life-saving medicines.

  • No psychiatrist I know would constitute a great moralist. Most wouldn’t know what morality was if it bit them in the butt.

    Some kids/YA are diagnosed with ODD because they act like hooligans and shop lift. I got in trouble for being “too good.” I kid you not! In the mental hospital I meekly submitted to at 15 the staff didn’t know what to do with me. My behavior actually scared some. More of a Lisa Simpson than a Bart. I was too moral and they considered that a mark of depression/OCD.

    At 22 some “experts” talked to Dad and me. “We have found two key problems with Rachel.” I believed in moral absolutes and I refused to sleep around. BUT if I had been the other way they would happily label me a “sociopath with nymphomania.” Or something equally ridiculous.

  • TF, the real problem with asking for pity or compassion is “normals” are usually too selfish and cold to give any. The only way to get any of them to take action on our behalf is to demonize us as a bunch of monsters who delight in killing for the heck of it. Of course the “help” they offer really isn’t. Getting everyone to leave us alone would be an improvement.

  • In order to become a nun I would have to be Catholic anyhow. I’m Church of Christ which is “family oriented.” In other words they worship the institution of marriage and sometimes make singles feel uncomfy. Two friends who encouraged me to go drug free are Assembly of God. Naturally they think extreme states aren’t all “brain diseases.” One of them is upset at how his sister is getting worse in psychiatric “treatment.”

    Right now–at 44–I don’t care if I die a virgin. But at age 20 that was a bitter pill to take!

  • Things are further confused by the DSM 5 categories. Some “diseases” listed–mostly as “personality disorders”–are actually forms of criminal behavior and have no business in a medical manual. The popular standbys like “Bipolar” and “Schizophrenia” are emotional in origin it seems. Dr. Glasser and others have successfully brought these people back to sanity by making them happier and showing them that they DO have control over their own actions. (When I was craziest I couldn’t believe this.)

    Other “mental illnesses” are social constructs. Homosexuality was a disease until–it suddenly wasn’t. Remember Drapetomania? It was a legitimate mental illness in the 1800’s; as real and legitimate as many today. Unhappy housewives had Hysterics. In the Soviet Union if you weren’t happy with the oppressive government you had Sluggish Schizophrenia.

    Just to keep things confusing the shrinks threw a very few real brain problems into the mixture of the DSM 5. Traumatic Brain Injury and Alzheimers for example. Both can be avoided by steering clear of psychiatry!

  • You could easily make the case that they are worse than Bernie Madoff. He robbed many individuals of their life savings. Corrupt psychiatrists rob people not just of their earning potential with disabling “treatments” and labels, but their reputations, health and life itself.

    A lot like that doctor called the Angel of Death who lied by telling many they had blood cancer to sell them many rounds of unneeded chemo. Psychiatry is a similar form of medical fraud.

  • Something really ironic, Noel. Nowadays if you have an SMI label no religious order in the Roman Catholic Church will accept you. Many of their most famous saints would be drugged and side-lined nowadays.

    One of my best friends is Catholic and wanted to be a nun till that dream was trashed by a “bipolar diagnosis.” A lot of people think wanting to be a nun is weird.

    I always wanted to get married and have 4 or 5 kids till my life was wrecked at age 20. Everyone told me to accept the fact I would die a virgin since my “bipolar” made me disgusting/unlovable.

  • People are more complex than television writers let on. Psychiatric nurses, MA’s, and case workers believe adhering to the psychiatric model because they honestly believe it will help people AND they need to practice “compliance” or lose their jobs.

    I remember pitying a case manager. Kindly, but very ignorant; he couldn’t figure out why no one got better “despite” taking fistfuls of drugs. He tried to pronounce SSRIs phonetically. During break I took him aside and politely explained the term was an acronym.

    He seemed amazed at how smart and well-informed I was.

    The case managers held me up as a role model for other “consumers” not knowing I had been struggling with the validity of psychiatry for years–like someone in the old Soviet Union questioning the Communist party. I was afraid of being found out before I could defect.

    I also secretly tapered off many of my drugs. Until I dropped below 75% of my original Effexor dose I did fine. No one was any the wiser. Going off Lamictal and Abilify did not cause me mania btw.

    My parents think I’m still taking my drugs. They can’t figure out what’s causing my physical sickness. They firmly believe going off my “meds” will cause weird, agitated, perhaps dangerous behavior. It never occurs to them it can cause extreme fatigue and (physical) sickness.

  • Kat, I find it ironic and unjust that you got punished again for being raped and sexually abused yet those who harmed you never got defamatory labels, locked up, or drugged.

    I no longer self identify as a “nut job.” And I stay as far away from psych professionals as possible–even the sincere, well-meaning ones. Those people are truly delusional and dangerous!

  • Johnyb, power corrupts. A One World Government would be a bigger bureaucratic mess than we already have. The only protection such a system would provide is its very incompetence.

    I think Mike Adams on Natural News has a better idea of disbanding our current federal system–or waiting for it to come apart at the seams–and replacing it with small, localized governments. These could still unite in a sort of loose federation, but the governments would be kept SMALL and ACCOUNTABLE to the governed. In such a system psychiatry and other evils would have very restricted powers.

  • They did not make me a better woman. I was so numb on them I did stuff that makes me feel guilty now. My trespasses were mild.

    10 mg of Haldol or Stelazine caused me to have hideous fantasies of assaulting people, beating them, and other random acts of pointless violence. This terrified me in the extreme! I thought I must be a female Ted Bundy. I wondered why my “meds” weren’t working. Thank goodness I never acted on these horrible thoughts; the only one they hurt was me.

  • Great review, Noel.

    I remember a biography of St. Francis of Assisi. He went “nuts” for a while. His dad, a wealthy merchant, gave him goods to care for. Francis sold them to give the money to the poor since he decided they needed it more.

    His dad got angry and dragged him before the magistrate. Francis gave the money back at their request. The irate father disowned him publicly, cutting him out of his will.

    Francis smiled and said God would be his Father from thenceforth. He stripped to his birthday suit and told his ex-father to take his clothes back as well since they rightfully belonged to him, not Francis. After that, Francis streaked off into the forest singing hymns joyfully.

    Despite his stabilizing and building up a social network, St. Francis of Assisi was never “normal.” Alas! If he had been put on a “medical cocktail” St. Francis might have led a happy, productive life drooling in a corner somewhere.

  • I find some hope in the fact that fewer and fewer people trust medical professionals. Many find the medical establishment less trustworthy than attorneys.

    If enough people protest the corruption in the medical system, MDs will eventually need to sing a different tune or let homeopaths have most of their business.

    If you notice all the angry doc bloggers decrying how “phony” homeopathic medicine and nutrition are you realize they spend hours a week writing these posts/articles because they perceive natural health consultants as a threat to business as usual. Some of them even troll sites and forums for natural health fans and those suffering iatrogenic damage. They are that desperate (and nasty.)

  • I tend to agree with Dr. Terry Lynch that VERY SHORT TERM use of neuroleptics might help someone out of touch with their surroundings who was violent or agitated. Kind of like morphine after invasive surgery.

    By short term I mean 1-4 weeks on the full dose and a week or two for tapering off. Unfortunately American psychiatrists don’t operate that way.

    10 mg of Haldol made me more agitated than ever. When they saw my reaction the orderlies pitied me–I trustingly helped them inject me like a lamb to the slaughter. They consoled me as best they could, telling me other patients experienced eyes rolling back, Parkinsonism, and restlessness.

    As far as the psychiatrist was concerned he told my parents, “That shouldn’t happen.” Someone was lying or woefully ignorant, and it wasn’t the orderly.

  • They “care” about keeping “consumers” just like Tim Murphy did as he shed crocodile tears about the suffering mentally ill who were sure to go on murderous rampages without his help.

    Real philanthropists and humanitarians don’t demonize the objects of their compassion. Did you ever hear Theresa of Calcutta bad-mouthing the lepers she served?

  • Seems pretty extreme. You didn’t smash windows or set fire to anything.

    It’s hard to tell objectively, but my conscience seems louder now that I’m off my brain drugs. Those things do not create consciences in bad people or promote morally upright behavior.

    The opposite may be true. We know how street drugs work.

  • Glad you have a non-virtual support team, Francesca.

    I moved with my parents when they retired to a remote place in the country. No shrinks in almost 100 miles.

    They know I don’t lie (but what can I do if my loved ones are brain washed?) I flushed my drugs down the toilet. Those I didn’t take–SA has helped me greatly in my tapering–and I took a small amount of Effexor till I left for HUD housing in a nearby city.

    Doing okay if I weren’t sick and broke. As a born introvert I get my social needs met pretty easily. No mental illness services!

    I continue to lie about my “awesome treatments” because of the placebo effect on Mom.

    She worries at how inactive I am. My housekeeping never has been stellar, but it showed improvement till my withdrawal symptoms worsened. I told her I think I have FM but she still talks about putting me in a “home” when the mood hits her.

  • “It has now been over 25 years since I recovered from a month’s hospitalization. Totally beside myself, barking like a dog at everyone and baying at the full moon.

    “I owe my recovery entirely to Raid. Not the generic insecticide mind you. Real, honest to goodness Raid has regenerated my rogue DNA and faulty chromosomes making me almost human again.

    “As long as I take 3 spoonfuls of this life giving medicine every day I lead a happy, productive life.” 😀

  • President Trump and those like him don’t need “mental illness” diagnoses when words like”hothead” work just as well. A decent social media consultant would make him write down his tweets ahead of time and wait at least an hour before posting.

    And as I said on another article written by you, Dr. Hickey, Dr. Frances and the other high-ranking psychiatrists really can’t keep their stories straight.

    Stigma makes a useful tool when they can use it to practice coercive “treatments.” But it’s a knife without a handle. Understandably few people relish the idea of having their reputations ruined as hopelessly “severely mentally ill.” This makes them reluctant to get the help they so sorely need. And by “they” I mean the psychiatrists of course, since they need consumers for their 6 or 7 digit incomes. Those they already keep have a bad habit of dying young. Alas.

  • I was troubled by something in the church I attend. The preacher condemned smoking pot from the pulpit. (I’m a teetotaler and don’t smoke tobacco or MJ, btw. He wasn’t stepping on my toes.)

    What troubled me was remembering how his wife had demanded, “Did you take your medicine?” of her grandchild before service started.

    These are not evil hypocrites! They themselves are woefully deceived. When I think of how that woman is encouraging her 8 year-old grandchild to take “medicine” that is actually a mind altering substance worse than marijuana I want to weep.

    Then I get angry. But not at the grandparents.

    Aside for some weirdos who enjoy having sick or crazy kids, most parents/guardians are duped. They think that the drugs are “medicine” that will save the child. Nothing could be further from the truth!

  • Szazs was onto something when he called psychiatry a religion. But in America there is no ordinary religion where they can legally lock you up, force feed you poisons or fry your brain until you recant your heresy. “Yes, doctor, I have good insight now. I was right and you were wrong. Thank you for shocking and poisoning me in this prison.”

    The whole thing smacks of the Spanish Inquisition.

  • My parents and I were buffaloed into thinking destroying the brains of the mad had gone out with the 60’s.

    Just because your loved one quits complaining does not mean their suffering is gone. If SILENCE is all you are after maybe shrinks should start giving linguectomies. Or send mental patients into permanent comas.

    A couple friends were shocked when I told them how I hated the “medicines” and how miserable they made me. Neither had any idea till I told them. 🙁 I never told because I knew no one would believe or care.

  • Btw, I have never experienced ECT, but I believe what you and others who have gone through it say about the horrors.

    Not even my nearest and dearest believed me when I told them how horrible my pills made me feel. I continued taking them because I believed I owed it to those around me who couldn’t stand who I really was.

    Aside from my weight loss and “laziness” no one notices any change since I went off them.

  • You could argue that damaging Hemingway’s or someone else’s brain still doesn’t mean they have to commit suicide.

    My religion–not psychiatry–has prevented me committing suicide. Some folks get insulted or accuse me of saying, “Just trust Jesus and pray and you’ll feel great.” Those things don’t alleviate all my suffering. Doing the “naughty” thing and going off my brain drugs has provided more long term relief. But my belief that–for me–I don’t own myself or have the right to end my life has prevented my suicide. Not the junk they put me on!

    Like a lot of people here I think Rick Warren is a fool. SSRI’s did not prevent his son’s suicide, yet he thinks forcing them on countless others will put an end to self harm.

    Believing I had an uncontrollable “disease” that could cause me to self destruct made me more apt to kill myself–thinking I had no responsibility for my actions at all. No longer suicidal thanks to my “poor insight.”

  • Brandb4, my heart goes out to you. I am now off my psych drugs but feel like I have the flu all the time. Worst of all–I hate lying, especially to loved ones–I have to lie to family and all but the friends in the know. If they knew the truth they would flip out even if they didn’t lock me up “for my own good.”

    If you want to communicate offline my email is evelynnichols at outlook dot com. Two Ns in the name. Survingantidepressants has helped me greatly in going drug free.

  • A lot of “ADHD” kids would improve scholastically if parents fed them oatmeal for breakfast rather than Frosted Sugar Bombs and they had gym every day and did calisthenics every hour of school time. And got rid of the TV or severely restricted viewing.

    Sugary diets, sitting for 7 hours behind a desk, and another 5 or 6 before the tube aren’t natural for kids. Putting them on more unnatural junk–drugs–to gum up their thinking is not the answer!

  • Yep. No wonder Tim Murphy made a seamless career change from psychiatrist to congressman. Both jobs waste tax payers’ money.

    If the public weren’t hopelessly gullible and naive, we might try convincing them that “mental health” costs tens of thousands of dollars per year per “consumer” and forces the victim to live at tax payer expense, preventing them from paying their share of taxes. Psychiatry is ruing the economy of the Western World. Forcing or tricking 20% of the population into lives as junkies is despicable! And ultimately unsustainable.

  • We all believe in a physical universe, Littleturtle. We all believe biology is real. I believe making someone take mind altering drugs for decades on end, destroying parts of the brain with bursts of electroshock, or whacking someone over the head repeatedly with a wooden bat effecst the biology of that person.

    Until a bio-marker can be located how can any drugs or surgery help? A drug may lower the exact chemicals already in short supply and elevate those already too high. Many of us here doubt madness is caused by biology (in most cases.) But even assuming it is, until we know what parts of the brain are responsible for the inability to function, how can we justify random experimental drugs and electroshock? Would any respectable surgeon perform brain surgery in the dark–not even knowing if the cancer existed?

  • I refuse to do the “mindfulness” thing! According to those here who find meditation helpful, the case worker forcing us to “meditate mindfully” for 2 hours at a time didn’t do it right anyhow. With all the drugs I was taking I felt way too tranquilized and empty-minded to begin with. A lot of us took naps during these sessions.

  • Traditionally suicide has not been viewed by the Japanese as something “insane” people do but rather an act of honor. If you were mortally insulted by a high ranking official you could save face by thrusting a knife in your chest.

    Here’s a question. Since a “diagnosis” of hopeless insanity is a disgrace, how many people in that type of culture will choose suicide immediately after being told they’re officially “bipolar” or “schizophrenic?”

  • You have a point RFTS. I think this has SOME practical bearing on our plight because the idea that chronic sorrow and hallucinations must originate solely in the brain is used to make a case for drugging and ECT. Many have bought into the idea of materialism/scientism and don’t even know it.

  • Sometimes the claim is “one in five persons has a mental illness.” Sometimes the claim is one in four or even one in three. A lot of wishful thinking in the psych industry!

    I remember hearing of a psychiatrist who said he personally knew millions of people whose lives had been saved through the drugs he prescribed. What a memory that guy had! Even the ability to know 2,000,000+ people by name would be remarkable, yet he not only knew these people as more than casual acquaintances but was so sure of alternative outcomes and all possible scenarios that he could guarantee FOR A FACT they would have killed themselves without the “life-saving medicines” he dished out.

  • Abusive relationships, extreme poverty, homelessness, and social ostracism are some very real causes of mental suffering, Littleturtle. These can all be helped without drugs. Leaving the abuser, gainful employment, shelter…these are real solutions to mental suffering.

    Brain tumors and certain forms of epilepsy may require surgery. Brain scans will show if something really is wrong with the physical brain. And a neuro-surgeon is needed. Not a psychiatrist!

  • Been off the anafranil for 24 years. The psychiatrist let me quit cold turkey. I spent 16 hours in bed sleeping. He told Mom since I was still detached I needed to be hospitalized immediately or become permanently insane. When Mom relayed this message I wept and trembled in terror. I went to the psych ward willingly-desperate for help. What I got was a mega-dose of seizure inducing Haldol. 🙁

    Now that I have weened myself off those toxins after 25+ years I wouldn’t mind the kind of therapy you offer, Bcharris. I feel horribly dry and itchy with a chronic cough and symptoms similar to the worst kind of fibromyalgia. My body keeps giving off weird odors those around me can smell (not just my imagination.) My thinking seems clearer for the most part though.

  • Bcharris, when I went on my first SSRI (anafranil) I was tripping for 3 weeks. Slept maybe 20 hours the whole time. The shrink didn’t care I was losing it or going bonkers. He claimed ANAFRANIL NEVER caused HALLUCINATIONS. Either he lied or was too busy golfing to check the list of side effects in the pill manual.

    I never threatened anyone but I was terribly frightened. Dr. Quack said that meant I had classic schizophrenia without bothering to see or talk to me on the phone.

    Shrinks like him are behind most of these mass shootings! They should be publicly held accountable to the families of victims.

  • Helping gut bacteria in unhappy people would be preferable to putting them on SSRIs. For one thing you can check what grows in the gut to determine if the bacteria is right and how to fix it if it’s not.

    I have no problem with using proper nutrition (sleep or exercise) to help people feel better emotionally. This is different from putting people on mind-altering drugs.

    A few times I wound up on the psych ward from intense fatigue/depression I was found to have a low thyroid level. Anemia also causes those feelings–though I believe my pernicious anemia stemmed from my drug cocktail. Now it’s no longer an issue.

  • I really never knew what madness was till Pharma-psychiatry got their claws on me. Started out with depression and anxiety, wound up a full blown psychotic thanks to anafranil/haldol/effexor and other crap.

    Found out decades later that tardive psychosis exists.

    Drug free for a month. Often I feel almost human again!

  • The GermanWings pilot was high on 3 or 4 Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors. You don’t hear shrinks owning up to that. Too bad we can’t put all those shrinks behind the mass shootings on trial for the deaths they caused (sort of) indirectly. People who know the truth about these mind-altering drugs, foist them on unwilling or gullible victims, and lie all the time for $$$$$$ are the real menace to society. They should be locked up.

  • My cousin has no physical defect. The only rehabilitative cure you can force on someone like that is to execute them or lock them up forever. I believe there is a valid, spiritual cure for him, but whether he chooses to accept it is up to him. No shrink can help him; certainly not those neurotoxins they pass off as medicines.

  • I have a truly mad scheme of my own. I’m more moved by the sufferings of the rest of you than any memories of my own. These make me truly angry, in a righteous way.

    Here is my idea. I’m going back into the belly of the beast. I will yield myself fully to the power of the psychiatrist and social workers. I will gratefully accept the pills they hand me–grateful for their good intentions. Because of my obedient, submissive behavior they won’t be too careful when I don’t actually take them.

    I will be kind, take all reasonable suggestions from the therapist, work hard to clean my subsidized apartment, keep good hygiene, do volunteer work in the community as they often advise….This is not brown nosing. I will only do what I can in all sincerity do or say. I’ll be meek as a lamb.

    If this plan works my psychiatrist will himself remove my Bipolar diagnosis with no real coercion from me. He will be completely baffled. During his period of cognitive dissonance I will plant an idea in his head.

    If all goes well, this idea will snowball into a giant snowball then freeze into an icy boulder that will strike a death blow to Psychiatry as we know it.

    We will fight wisdom with foolishness and strength with weakness. Madness will triumph over sanity and poetry over science.

  • You have a good point, Julie. Criminals who have actually broken the law and hurt other people or their goods do not DESERVE a second chance. They NEED mercy. That was the real secret to Jean Val Jean’s reformation in Les Miserables. The cruel, slightly sadistic jailers and Jalvert could not accomplish any character reform by enforcing Law on the thief. All they did was harden him. Eventually the Love of the kindly bishop turned a thief into a saintly hero.

  • It might be a decent compromise that only the violent should be confined. We can’t have them running around hurting others.

    These make up a very small percentage, however. One of psychiatry’s biggest problems is they make no distinction between the dangerous to others, dangerous to self and harmless eccentrics. This is because they’re too busy swindling gullible patients and the ignorant public like the glorified dealers they’ve degenerated into.

    Unfortunately these behaviors would exist on a spectrum. Instead of the DSM, they would have some kind of line of gradation. Only a tiny % would require locking up, for other’s protection. Not just their own.

    For obvious reasons, I don’t see the APA adopting my suggestion soon. 🙂

  • Some women/men are so truly evil they actually would–on a certain level–lose their mad child to an Rx drug overdose than “lose their child” if they recovered to some extent and left Mommy with too much time on her hands. Boo hoo! Now she’ll have to take out the family poodle for hair styling and doggy manicures, “take care of” Fifi in ways he neither needs nor wants.
    Poor Fifi! At least, due to his limited canine brain he won’t suffer the way her grown son did.

  • They told me I would “need meds for life.” I believed them, plus I knew I would never be allowed to feel good again (drug free.) Finally I have gone off my downers (neuroleptics) and most of my upper (SSRI) without my shrink’s knowledge or consent. Now I’m no longer manic or suicidal. Just feel like I have the flu a lot from DT’s and iatrogenic damage from 25 years of doctor approved drug abuse!

    Sadly I still have that character assassinating “diagnosis” of Bipolar 2. Starting to figure out who I am after decades of learned helplessness.

    No identity apart from mental patient. No work history.

    Gonna give freelancing a try. The internet is wonderful! Helped me figure out I’m not crazy and how to go off psych drugs without freaking out myself and all around me. 😉 it should help me become gainfully employed too.

  • A lot of us are Oldhead. I chose rural isolation with my aging parents to escape psychiatry. But I still have to assume my “bipolar” role occasionally. And feign “meds compliance” so my mom won’t worry and get me “help.” She insists on taking celexa for her nerves. After all, her doctor and the TV commercials say celexa corrects an imbalance in her brain–so it must be true! Ironically she distrusts much of television’s news, but swallows drug commercials unquestioningly. Maybe the news media should take lessons from Big Pharma. Lol.

  • I first saw a shrink because I was severely sad or “depressed” and afraid to go out in public. As a college freshman I still was suffering flashbacks to the bullying and sexual harassment from high school. The doctor gave me a tiny amount of stellazine (6 mg.) It took the edge off my anxiety. I was in a play and began to make friends.

    Unfortunately I still had issues. Two years later I had to move back in with my folks due to finances. Stressed out, I saw the doctor again. He had “saved” me before after all–I thought.

    He put me on anafranil. This made me higher than a kite. Dr. Quackenbush denied this was possible. Things only went downhill from there.

  • It certainly is, Borut! I’m forced to live with my (sometimes emotionally abusive) mother. The alternative is HUD segregated housing and entrapment in the MI ghetto. On $733 I can’t afford a regular studio and– for now–I’m too sick to work. Effexor withdrawal makes me feel like I have the flu 24/7.

    I’m puzzled as to why Sandra chooses to post here, since she basically supports the status quo for pharma-psychiatry. There are a lot of pro-psychiatry magazines and websites where psych professionals and the “grateful brain dead” would love her message.

  • There are some very low-cost alternatives that can be used to help the “mentally ill.” But they will never get government support money. On the positive side most are cheap and even free.

    1. Moral therapy. Something like peer respite homes at their best.
    2. Peer support groups.
    3. Talking to a clergy member or wise friend.
    4. Better nutrition and exercise.
    5. Volunteering to get out in the community.

  • I’m all for eliminating suicide. Or reducing it as much as possible. People usually kill themselves because they suffer and perhaps think they owe suicide to those around them.

    Go to the suicidal person. Tell him/her how important they are to you, how you would miss them if they died. Give them a hug. Ask if there is anything you can do to ease their pain.

    Get at least 2 or 3 friends to take turns watching the friend if they still give you cause for worry. Make sure they get good, nourishing food, water, rest, fresh air, sunshine or a spectrum lamp, and exercise. Let them vent or remain silent as they choose. If they vent, speak as little as possible yourself and don’t condemn them.

    When the person is able to reason, help them find a way out of the mess and make plans for a future. Something to hope for.

    Does that really require 12 years of college?

  • I suffered severe depression at age 7. Looking back, I think it stemmed from not fitting into the Special Behavioral School where I was shoved. The teacher and her aid kept shaming me for knowing too much. (Probably frustrated with not knowing how to handle a really smart kid with behavioral issues.) Then a bout with mono made it much, much worse.

    Thank God, we didn’t have as many drugs back then!

  • Uprising, I agree with you. I am not against giving money to the truly disabled but creating unnecessary disabilities as the psychiatric racket does. Nobody suffering iatrogenic damage or so drugged up they sleep 12 hours a day ever aspired to be permanently disabled.

    The p doctors told me my only hope for a normal life and getting off SSI lay in taking their drugs “exactly as prescribed.” As I got sicker and sicker they claimed it was “my illness” no matter whether the issues were cognitive, emotional, or purely physical!

    I am really angry at how they took me in! And myself for being gullible and too sensitive. (My being too sensitive led to me seeing that accursed shrink.)

    Unfortunately right now I feel sicker than ever. 🙁

  • 40% was a fictional percentage. With all the “treatments for mentally ill” children though it could happen.

    Their disability is certainly artificial–no disputing that. That’s what’s so disgusting about psychiatry. It maims and kills people who would otherwise be healthy.

    Psychiatry and Big Pharma are crony capitalism at its worst. But what they are doing–making shoddy products in the form of neuro-poisons and tricking gullible people into taking or forcing others to take them is not good for capitalism in the long run. It will lead to the system’s collapse which will lead first to anarchy then tyranny.

    Capitalism is not my religion and selfishness is wrong. Love people; use things. Not the reverse.

  • No known or proven organic disorders. My problem with throwing drugs at the problem is you have no idea what neurochemicals are too high or too low–if the imbalance exists. You may be elevating dopamine and lowering serotonin, when the patient has very high dopamine already and a barely existent supply of some essential chemical not yet classified by science. A lot of neurochemicals are not, despite what your friendly neighborhood shrink may say.

  • NAMI is very helpful if you run out of psych pills all the sudden. They’re not good for much else as far as we “consumers” go. They let a negligent psychiatrist kill my friend. Finally I wised up to their nonsense and left.

    A good friend of mine got me started in NAMI. She left too after 3 of her family members died young from psychiatric interventions. Now she is encouraging me to taper off my effexor.

  • Good for you, Frank. I was brought up to be passive and obedient to those in any position of authority. (Preacher’s daughter in a semi-patriarchal church.)

    Unfortunately our church is pro-psychiatry, accepting it as “real medicine to help sick people.” Anti-psychiatry churches are also demoralizing. “If you just had faith/prayed to Jesus/confessed the sin in your life–you wouldn’t have emotional problems.”

    It took 20 years for me to even question the legitimacy of psychiatric authority.

  • Self control as well. Some folks with SMI labels truly are jerks. They’re not above using these labels to get what they want.

    I admit I used my “bipolar” label to shirk some adult responsibilities and throw tantrums in public. Looking back I feel embarrassed. I no longer want to act this way. Was it all those drugs I took? Or did I just possess such “good insight” I believed I was mad and adopted the role assigned me of madwoman?

    I still have very rare meltdowns in front of my parents. The last one occurred when they brought up my MI label and accused me of manipulative behavior.

  • Frank, I’m not anti-capitalism. But if I were I’d be happy about this rapid expansion of Psychiatry and Big Pharma.

    40% of the population artificially disabled and addicted to overpriced drugs–all covered by the few paying taxes…This will be the downfall of our economy.

    Right now, it’s more like 5-10%. But thanks to Murphy’s Law I believe this number will more than quadruple in the next 20 years.

  • The bio-model made good sense to me for many years, because I knew of no alternatives.

    It was actually Bill Gothard (scandals emerged since) who turned me onto William Glassner’s work and the idea of creative symptoming to explain human suffering called mental illness.

    Till then I had only known 1. You’re crazy because you’re evil, demon possessed, or lack faith in Jesus. Or 2. You’re crazy because you’re genetically inferior and incurably sick.

  • I read a blog by a woman who stated that anti-depressants had not cured her and many people shamed her for saying this. She was a Christian blogger and other Christians had shamed her–claiming she would discourage others from getting the help they needed!

    Apparently they take blasphemy against Prozac more seriously than blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Are they truly Christians or believers of Scientism?

    I told the blogger she was not alone in her experience, that she was not evil because she was unhappy. This seemed to make her feel better.

    Few people realize the shaming that occurs when your “meds” do not work. This can be like faith healings that don’t work. Only instead of lacking faith, it’s assumed you are “non-compliant.” Because if you took your “meds exactly as prescribed” everything would be peachy keen.

  • That could be a good thing for us Psych Survivors in the long run as you point out KS. Too many people accused of severe mental illness can also help us. Since these drugs cause or exacerbate emotional/cognitive problems that will happen too.

    Like the Salem witch hunters, the Pharma-psychiatry industry can’t seem to quit while they’re ahead.

  • Yes, you did misread him. Who would argue that people suffer emotionally or seek psychiatrists out in hopes that they will feel better? That’s how I got started. My problem is the psychiatrist was ignorant or deceitful. He put me on an SSRI that kept me from sleeping for 3 weeks…and my life went drastically downhill from there.

    Fruit certainly contains carbohydrates. My point about the doctor calling a grain-free diet a carb-free diet was to show how ignorant he was. I agree with the rest of what you say.

  • The high ranking, “well-informed” psychiatrists are certainly evil. Sinister, not stupid. But there are some well-meaning psych doctors who are part of the outer circle and don’t attend APA meetings are read many articles in psych journals. They may even believe what they say when they tell you you have a chemical imbalance in your brain.

    The nice psychiatrists we see, who don’t lie and want us to do well–they are either stupid or uninformed. Those are the good ones. 🙁

  • It’s quite likely that genes are responsible for my high score in neurotic tendencies. Neurosis should not be seen as a mental illness label. Like being an extrovert or openness, all a high neurosis score means is you are susceptible to negative emotions. And there are benefits to being neurotic too.

    Domestic felines are highly neurotic. Due to their position in the middle of the food chain, neurosis is an effective survival mechanism for a cat. In our highly competitive society, a similar case could be made for the neurotic individual.

  • Anafranil caused me to go from a Major Depressive Disorder label to a Bipolar 2 one.

    If SSRI’s “unmask” so-called mood disorders maybe taking folks off would mask the problem again. According to shrinks that’s all their drugs do anyhow. But this would mean fewer pills to sell. So they’re agin’ this idea!

  • Yep. My Mom has often used my “schizo-affective/bipolar” status to get what she wanted. Now she is addicted to Celexa and can’t even realize it. Sits around in a semi-vegetative state most of the day watching TV for hours on end. Can’t even remember what she watched later.

    She has the soft diagnosis of depression and could go off the drug at any time if she wanted. Yet she swears it helps her nerves. Why is she nervous? She is retired for Pete’s sake! The original excuse for taking Celexa was the nasty boss she worked under. She left him 5 years ago. *Sigh.*

  • Yep. Nefarious mischief. Broo-ha-ha! Conjures up an image of some mustache twirling villain in a top hat and cape.

    It’s hard not to come across as irrational if the public has already been duped into believing the irrational lies of your enemy.

    I try to “tone things down” myself, by revealing stuff bit by bit. Telling total strangers “mental does not exist” can make them think you are saying people never suffer extreme sadness for months at a time, or hallucinate, or have untrue ideas that cause suffering to them–and sometimes others.

    Educating the public is right and necessary. Psychiatrists and their minions are a lost cause. Does Ron imagine he can present a convincing argument to Simon Legree so he’ll set all the slaves on his plantation free? Give me a break!

  • Yes. The 30% figure they love to pull out of thin air.

    This is anecdotal but my great aunt was diagnosed with schizophrenia in the 40’s and died recently at the age of 87. Once Grandpa rescued her from the institute he took care to never let a shrink near her again. She took no neuroleptics or other drugs and experienced no cognitive decline either!
    Schizophrenics used to live about as long as most people. This thing about the 25 year life expectancy gap is pretty recent. I first read about it in a NAMI periodical that refused to connect the dots. Might cause meds noncompliance, dontcha know? People becoming drug free, recovering, leading happy productive lives and not needing “treatment”? Oh, the horror!

  • If Ron were a survivor himself he might feel differently. His life is not apt to end 25 years early. Plus he has to get along with all those nice, smiley psychiatrist coworkers. They treat him cordially because he’s a “normal” and not a lowly “consumer.” It’s much easier to be comfortable with the status quo in that situation. His brain is in no danger of being fried or damaged through massive druggings.

  • Uh, where does Phil claim “mental suffering does not exist”? If he said anything that ridiculous a lot of us would take issue.

    As far as nutritional deficiencies causing emotional and cognitive problems, we can all agree on that. But no psychiatrist I have ever seen takes those things into account. They often failed to test my thyroid levels, and I’m hypothyroid. This has brought on bouts of depression the shrinks treated with brain drugs–not simply raising my thyroid supplements.

    If you feel depressed or can’t function properly despite other things going great in your life, you might want to see a dietitian. Most GPs and other doctors are ignorant about nutrition. (My current doctor told me to go on a carb free diet. “No grains. Just lots of fruits and vegetables!” Oh boy. And I’m looking to him for preserving my health and life? Scary!)

    I have been anemic and deficient in many vitamins lately. Especially B3, B6 and D3. Since coming off my neuroleptic drug–Abilify–my red blood cell count is much better. Coincidence? Perhaps….

  • Psychiatrists often have rotten bedside manners and would fail miserably in a bona fide medical specialty where they had to treat people like human beings rather than diseases of society (the true role of the keeper of the mad is to protect society from the crazy folk. Not to cure or help the mad themselves.)

    If shrinks were forced to look for real jobs no one would hire them as cashiers at Wal-Mart. Who would want an arrogant, surly jerk running up your groceries and refusing to admit when he got your change wrong?

  • My dad is a retired clergy and Bible scholar. He pokes fun at people who make assumptions then go through the Bible digging up proof texts to support what they already know because they want to believe it.

    It sounds like the John Hopkins Research Center has a similar mindset. They have already determined that “bipolar” is genetic. This is their belief–not just a hypothesis. Now they’re desperately looking for proof to support this foregone conclusion.

  • Wow Mary! Telling a shrink about these experiences. I’m sure you now realize what a huge mistake that was.

    Dr. Shrinkenstein, please lock me up and drug me!

    I tell any shrinks I deal with as little as possible. I even avoid small talk.

    I wish I could remember the quote, but Thoreau once said that if he knew a man was setting out for his home to “do him good” he would take off running. Because stupid, shallow thinking do-gooders are the most dangerous people of all.

  • Ron’s question was addressed to Michael, so I will put in my two cents down here where I won’t be butting in.

    Psychiatrists and their drugs/electroshock are not the only reason the “mentally ill” die young. Most medical professionals will (maybe unconsciously) provide poor quality care to those they regard as non-productive. My pro-psychiatry dad observed this before I did.

    Many folks taking psych drugs abuse coffee, cigarettes, and junk food because the pills make us suffer and these milder drugs alleviate some of it. Plus poverty makes it hard to eat right and make other healthy life choices. And loneliness/isolation is bad for the heart.

    These are all indirectly related to the psychiatrists’ “treatments.” Yet the pharma-psychiatric industry can only do what it does because of:

    1. the other medical professionals covering up for them
    2. corrupt government officials covering up for them in exchange for campaign contributions
    3. mainstream media saying whatever the “experts” say due to drug company sponsors
    4. ignorant sheeple unwilling or afraid to think and too lazy to read books (most “grateful consumers” fall into this category)
    5. and less ignorant folks who don’t care if the “crazies” live or die.

  • My argument would be, if psychosis can be fixed by better nutrition, then we’re dealing with a nutritional deficiency and not a “mental illness” at all. In that case seeing a nutritionist or homeopath is the sensible thing to do. No shrink needed!

  • I was seizing everywhere. This was disruptive. But their conclusion was terribly flawed.

    I left the college where I had formerly found love and acceptance. I had to move back in with Mommy Dearest and my dad who thought it was okay to hit “schizos” to keep them under control. I tried moving out into the HUD ghetto and Day Treatment crap the MI System provides. Till I got fed up…and moved back in with parents.

    Vicious game of ping pong the last 23 years. No resources apart from the Mental Illness System and abusive parents. Taken to pulling hair out literally. Going bald in patches.

  • “fail to ignore?” My guess is you meant either ignore or fail to recognize. If you run any google searches these forums for idiots/malingerers/abusers will come up in spades. Pretending they don’t exist is impossible.

    The argument that there are no tests is a legitimate, reasonable one. But our rational arguments are no match for the mindless propaganda sound-bites of Big Pharma and the Psych Industry. I grow more misanthropic by the day.

    People are stoopid!

  • I doubt that Frederick Douglass wasted a lot of time trying to curry favor with the slave industry. Because they viewed him as sub-human, nothing he had to say mattered to them anyhow.

    Even if scoring points with the psychiatric industry were preferable, due to the sub-human status they have assigned consumers and survivors alike this is not an option for us.

  • My “diagnosis” is pretty darn serious, Frank. Regardless of the lack of science behind it. Because I have a “bipolar 2” label, people feel its okay to treat me like a devious criminal mastermind, an MMR preschooler, or a hopeless invalid. Or any combination of the above, as THEY see fit. And they have “real science” behind them to enable their cruelty.

  • Depression is real. You don’t help a person feeling depressed by telling them their brain is broken, they’re defective and hopeless.

    I have been susceptible to rotten feelings since I was a small child. I figured out coping skills and learned to minimize the experiences without any “help” from pharma-psychiatry.

    As a teenager I was upset when a youth minister I respected and admired told me, “Real Christians, who have faith in Jesus, should never be depressed.” Man, did I feel awful after that.

    A lot of you folks here are atheists, but if you’re trying really hard to do anything and someone tells you you’re suffering because you’re a failure in your area of endeavor…well, it doesn’t get much worse.

    For that reason I don’t feel comfy at many “anti-psychiatry” churches. (Though the pro-psychiatry ones tell you it’s your fault cause you won’t shut up and take your Prozac.)

  • I agree Oldhead. Some psychiatric labels are moral problems–not illnesses. Others are feelings or moods. Right now I’m suffering depression, though now I usually call it intense prolonged sadness. It’s not a disease, but it’s horribly painful. I don’t need a new drug to numb me though. I need to keep my mind clear to change the crap in my life behind my sadness.

    If your leg is broken you set the bone. You don’t just consume massive quantities of morphine while walking around on your broken leg like nothing’s wrong!

  • Also the delusion that their diagnostic labels have any real benefit at all. Julie Greene has made the point on her personal blog that even if we could strip psychiatrists of their powers to “prescribe” harmful drugs and electroshock by brute force or deception, these defamatory labels would still cause a lot of us grief.

  • Boo hoo! That’s so unfair for those people to have gotten well and lead productive, happy lives! 🙁

    How will poor Dr. Pillshill finance his month in the Caribbeans? Simple. By inventing new diagnoses to cram into the DSM 6.

    Longer than the 7th Harry Potter novel, every bit as imaginative, but not quite as thrilling a read.

  • I didn’t know it was legal to kick someone out of a college for a diagnosis of “schizophrenia.” Did they invent some other reason, so it wouldn’t be so obviously discriminatory?

    At my college, they claimed I wasn’t taking my “meds.” Their proof? I experienced horrible seizures, Parkinson type tremors, and horrible episodes of tardive akathasia. The mega doses of Haldol were the causes of these symptoms. So actually they were proof that I was “meds compliant.”

    I think it was true ignorance and not deceit behind my totally voluntary decision to leave. (Cough. Cough.) Still, they needed an excuse to kick me out. They aren’t supposed to discriminate against the disabled.

  • Here’s the question no one is asking. How many people commit suicide who wouldn’t have if they hadn’t been subjected to disabling, horrifying drugs (my Haldol experience was Hell on earth! Lasted for over a year because my psychiatrist said Haldol shouldn’t do that) and defamatory psych labels? No one can say, because that’s dealing with stuff that never happened.

    Nevertheless, psych doctors can make unproveable because unknowable assertions like “30% of all suicides would have been prevented through ‘treatments.'” This was on a science report, no less! And everyone nods in amazement at this psychic’s expertise.

    That percentage is not cherry-picked but pulled out of thin air. Expert illusionists that psychiatrists are!

  • Cold turkeying is usually a bad idea. If Pat becomes drug free he gets my full support. But he needs to educate himself before hand.

    I don’t want Pat to wind up in the mad house, charged with “noncompliance,” “agnosognosia” and a host of other crimes against psychiatry. That could get him in some deep crap! I’ve been angry at Pat, but I don’t hate him or wish that mess on him.

    I’m glad I read up on coming off psych drugs in advance. My withdrawals are not a cakewalk as it is.

  • TMI, Pat. You and your girlfriend are “getting some.” “Nuff said! Glad you can work and your finances are okay too.

    Unfortunately for myself and people like me the opposite is true. Because of psychiatry I never have been gainfully employed and am still a virgin at 43. Plus my “bipolar” label has given my emotionally abusive mother an excuse to run my life and everyone sides with her, telling me how lucky I am to have her since I’m too sick and helpless to care for myself.

  • Socrates–perhaps the greatest philosopher who ever lived–went around asking questions. He prefaced these questions by freely admitting his ignorance.

    No wonder most psychiatrists make rotten philosophers. Plus a philosopher is a lover of wisdom, not a lover of ignorance and endorser of lies.

    If ever a psychiatric bigwig–such as Torrey, Ronald Pies, or Lieberman ever goes on television or some other public media source and admits that there is no chemical imbalance in the brain–we told people that so they would take the pills we prescribed…well, in that case I will have to apologize. 😉

  • No doubt he thought Bob didn’t show enough gratitude to him since he’d deigned to sit through the lecture after all.
    How many heart surgeons, neurologists, and cancer specialists fuss and fume because their patients don’t show them sufficient gratitude and deference? But then all their patients want to be treated. Real doctors don’t need to force treatment on unwilling people. If psychiatry worked they wouldn’t need force; everyone wants to feel better, no matter how out of touch they are.

  • My problem with Psychiatry is not that all its practitioners are actively abusive. Most of the psychiatrists I have seen were sort of nice, but distant.

    The real problem for me (besides the drugs useful only as emotional pain killers and very addictive) has been that psychiatry’s labels have enabled abusers in my life. My ex-fiance kept reminding me I was crazy to get me to do things his way and insult me. My mother uses my “mentally ill” status as an excuse to treat me like a pet or rag doll. She has an overwhelming, unhealthy need to be needed. She needs to get a life.

    If I can only escape it will be good for both of us….

  • Psychiatry’s downfall will come from the hubris and greed of its professionals. When they were content with smaller DSM manuals that contained a handful of diagnostic labels and only a teeny percentage of the population to lock up and “treat” they had an easier time of it. But now that they keep adding “diseases” to their manuals, selling more and more useless drugs and have one out of every 6 people (more than 15% of us I believe) more or less in their clutches and more “severe” cases who require disability because they can’t work it’s becoming obvious this is out of control and unsustainable.

    They need to remember what led to the demise of Maximilian Robespierre, a major leader of the French Revolution. He kept accusing more and more people of treason to the Republic of France. After he’d guillotined a lot of people, everyone with their head still attached realized no one was safe with Robespierre running the show. So they set Robespierre up on a blind date–with Madame Guillotine. 🙂

  • Yes, it’s pretty funny. Not only do psych drugs not help us and injure us. Once you have a mental illness label everyone assumes you have no real needs beyond your “meds,” the bare basic physiological needs on Maslow’s hierarchy and nothing else. Aside from your psych “meds” you might as well be a dog. Only then the Humane Society would get on their case. It’s okay if you’re lonely, tormented or leading a rotten life as long as you take your meds.

    I am worried. Why am I so angry all the time now? I used to be depressed and suicidal. Now I’m mad as Heck and have trouble hiding it. My family is worried and wants me back to normal–or mildly depressed.

    Mom’s continual nagging and patronizing way of talking to me–like I’m some childish imbecile has been exacerbating my recent problem of picking at my skin and hairs till I’m going bald. Then she nags about that, making the problem even worse! Sometimes I get so upset that when I dine with her and Dad my stomach churns and I can barely eat. She only notices when I eat “too much” though. I am paranoid about eating in front of her and smuggle food into my bedroom where she won’t watch me.

    She’ll repeat things 20 times on the grounds that I won’t remember or obey otherwise. Stuff like taking a shower. My hygiene has been poor (it has also been much worse in the past) but her continual nagging makes me resent doing things I would normally do!

    I blew up at Dad when he accused me of manipulation today. I told him he said that “all the time.” That’s not even true. I don’t know why I said it. But MI professionals have often called me that and I wound up labeled BPD for using the only survival techniques that worked. I guess Dad touched a raw nerve.

    I am going to pretend I have the flu so I can skip church tomorrow. I need to get away from Mommy Dearest. The praise band is way too loud and hurts my ears and make my frayed nerves stick out all over. My senses are way too keen since coming off so many of my drugs. I wish I could find a church that was more open to singles but my dad insists I go where they do.

  • Thanks for replying Steve. I probably wouldn’t qualify as an abuse victim. Dad quit slapping and cuffing my head 16 years ago when I told him it was unacceptable and threatened to go to a woman’s shelter if he did it again. With Mom it’s all verbal/emotional/manipulation.

    I have decided I can only deal with one thing at a time. I hate to do this, but I will have to put my Effexor taper on hold till I can earn extra income and move away from this negative situation. After 6-12 months I can continue the decrease. I cannot stand the horrible withdrawal symptoms and put up with Mom’s bologna sauce every day in such tight quarters. Even in my room I can hear her d___ television set blaring through the paper-thin walls of this single wide.

    Mom has no idea I almost developed an eating disorder at 19 because of her. Always telling me I was fat and ugly; I should get used to the fact that no decent guy would ever want me. After my bipolar diagnosis she would say I was too fat, ugly and CRAZY for any decent guy to ever want me.

    When I found guys who wanted me anyhow Mom would freak out. She just knew there was something wrong with the guy! After all, why else would he want someone like me?

    I almost eloped with an abusive lush a few years ago to escape. I’m glad I didn’t. Mom accused me of wanting to elope because I was “desperate.” I was indeed desperate, but it was to escape her and prove I was a woman not a monster after all.

  • Hey Steve, I’m having a REALLY ROUGH TIME. Part of it comes from Effexor withdrawal. Severe social isolation, loneliness and grieving over my lost life make things even worse. I can’t stop crying for long. My parents are upset. I spend as much time alone in my room as possible so they won’t see my pain. Mom gets emotionally abusive and manipulative. Dad’s more reasonable but he has a short fuse and it’s hard to keep him from blowing his top.

    I’m not suicidal. I just feel my life is worthless. Sometimes I wish I were dead.

    I’m worried my folks will try to “help” me. Since they buy into the medical model of suffering–easier to stuff pills down me than acknowledge my pain–you can guess what form this help will take.

    I wish I could leave! But I can’t find housing on $733 a month. Too sick most of the time from withdrawals to earn any $$$.

    Do you know anyone who could possibly advise or help me?

    I’m at my wit’s end. Hence my moniker.

  • I agree with you, RamonaAStone. For the most part. I have been unusually lucky with my shrinks–only one was truly evil. Two actually seemed to take pity on me, but the medical model they used didn’t work. (The doctors who bled George Washington to death meant well. But he still died.)

    It’s not just shrinks who feel that way, but the population in general–fueled by the top dogs like Torey who demonize and defame those they say they want to help. The shrinks would miss us. Fewer cash cows to milk!

  • According to Barliman the DSM is not used for finding causes. Good point! All it’s “diagnoses” are lists of symptoms grouped into clusters which are voted on by elite psychiatric professionals. Since they deal with various behaviors as symptoms, they really aren’t diseases at all but bad habits or even quirks some find annoying or odd but are harmless.
    My bad thyroid causes me to experience long term sadness (depression.) Since the thyroid is at the root of the problem the diagnosis that will help is one of hypothyroidism not clinical depression or bipolar 2.

    If ADHD is a bunch of symptoms with many causes, then ADHD really is not a diagnosis at all and has no business in any medical manual. You don’t find Itching in any diagnostic manual. Or Chronic Sniffles. If you have those problems seeing a doctor is a good idea, but a diagnosis should be based on the pathology responsible for the problem and not just a reiteration of the symptoms already described by the patient.

  • Yes. I was “schizoaffective” till a doctor changed me to “bipolar 2.” At the time I didn’t realize how weird this was. How can a doctor–however smart and educated with X years of experience–transform one disease to another at the stroke of a pen?

    “Dr. Smith diagnosed you with walking pneumonia, but I think I’ll change it to—oh, the mumps instead.”

    “An illness like any other” my foot!

    Judging from the behavior of Creepy Pete and the NAMI mommies, even they don’t buy into the bovine excrement they foist upon the gullible public.

  • My mother always had trouble understanding me. But her emotional and verbal abuse didn’t start until after my “severe mental illness” label at age 20. Part of it stemmed from shame that she had brought forth a defective child. Also “scientific experts” told her that my brain was broken, I was hopelessly out of touch with reality, and despite all the “safe and effective treatments” they could offer I would only get worse over time as my “disease” progressed. Somehow this led Mom to believe my thoughts and feelings were unimportant so it didn’t matter how I was treated as long as I got my “meds.” Dad believed brute force was necessary now in his dealings with me. So he took to slapping or cuffing me after my diagnosis.

    Thanks a lot Psychiatry! 😛

  • I thought I’d add a comment about my own autodidactic studies. Perpetual emotional trauma can indeed alter the brain’s structure and chemistry.

    When you consider the emotional trauma that occurs with mental illness labeling and various “treatments” even if the victim is willing, the effect of treatment-induced trauma needs to be considered in examining the brains of the “mentally ill.” This would be a factor too, even though not directly linked to the drugs.

  • Shrinks lie all the time. And then write self-congratulatory articles in the APA journal while laughing up their sleeves at the “metaphors” they use. They deliberately deceive not just those who come to them for help but the public in general.

    I have no qualms about lying to them in return. When you consider what seasoned liars most of them are, it’s hard to understand why they’re also gullible and willing to buy into lies we tell them.

    They probably assume we’re so stupid and irrational that they underestimate us.

    Reminds me of the end of the film The Hunt for Red October. After Jack Ryan outwits the conniving Soviet official and saves the defecting captain (Sean Connory) the characters do a bit of a social charade at the end. Joss Ackland’s character and Jack Ryan (Alec Baldwin?) smile and shake hands and tell each other how they appreciate their candor. All the while they’re lying through their teeth and know it.

    That’s what psychiatry is. An elaborate charade and deception. A masked ball, but we pretend to think the other’s mask is their genuine face. 😛

  • Manslaughter is certainly common. But I was referring to people who die under mysterious circumstances while in psychiatric “care.” We may suspect the doctor of deliberately pumping the victim full of drugs they are known to be sensitive or even allergic to. Or subjecting them to dangerously high levels of electroshock (dangerous even from psychiatric standards) when the subject has a known heart condition.

    The doctor will simply claim that this was a “necessary risk” because the “patient” might perhaps have committed suicide or a violent act in the future. Ah, those psychiatric psychics!

  • Indeed I was Steve. The workshop leader was a “case” flunky. Can’t keep current on the titles they hand out to the underlings who barely make above minimum wage and do the psychs’ dirty work. Naturally the training was minimal. This worker was pretty nice and unusually respectful for one with her job. Aside from attending yoga she had no experience in meditation leading.

  • Sorry for what you’ve been through, HSN. My condolences.

    I found a way to deal with my inner demons–whom I believe in quite literally. I decided they were fallen angels sent to torment me. But their major goal is to draw me into evil.

    Whenever one tries to talk me into suicide or tells me how worthless I am or how God hates me, I quote Scripture to him or tell him to bug off.

    Of course I’d never tell a shrink about this. Or even most people at church; they believe in a devil, but only as an abstract theory. For all practical purposes, American Christians have embraced the philosophy of materialism. Thus great targets for pharmapsychiatric quackery.

  • Wish we could get Psychiatry legally declared a religion. Then we could get the ACLU and the ACLJ to take them on. And no more Zoloft commercials in church.

    I know. But we are all entitled to our little fantasies. I’ll take the above scenario over 50 Shades any day! 😀

  • Here’s an idea. They could get their pals in Big Pharma to come up with a new drug to create “insight” through blinding people so they can’t read anymore. And now that they claim they can diagnose bipolar in infants they can make it illegal to teach “bipolar” children basic reading skills. Woohoo! Problem solved! 😛

  • Did L. Ron Hubbard have some sort of personal vendetta against psychiatry that had nothing to do with their human rights abuses? I think I heard about Scientology’s lawsuits against Prozac when I first started it.

    My favorite psych drug. No noticeable effects at all! Sugar pills are the only thing better. For me, at least. 🙂

  • According to Dante’s Inferno, the last 3 rings of Hell are where the treacherous get their just deserts. Since I can’t think of anything more treacherous than a branch of “medicine” devoted to disable (sometimes kill) people while pretending to help them, the shrinks should wind up in the last circle embedded in ice. I hope they get Haldol injections first.

  • Sometimes I worry there’s something “wrong with me” because I’m almost immune to television. I also dislike stupid pop art (romance novels, country western music, formulaic movies etc.) Actually I hate having TV on for more than an hour a day. A lot of us psych survivors seem to have this oddity. Why, do you suppose?

  • We also have the right to life. But in the name of pharmapsychiatric treatment it’s okay to kill us. Most psych related deaths are not homicide (deliberate.) But considering how no one supervises the industry but the industry’s professionals, how can we honestly know how often homicides do or don’t occur?

  • It’s not true stupidity (being cursed with a low I.Q.) A lot of it is simply cognitive sloth. My Mom has that problem. Never reads. Watches at least 10 hours of TV and gets noticeably restless if it’s off for more than ten minutes. She’s happy getting all her information off drug commercials.

    She realizes she may be in the early stages of dementia, but refuses to do anything proactive. Says “they have medicines for it.” I tell her most scientists agree now that these pills do not help cognitive decline. She responds “that’s not what the commercials say.”

    Pretty hopeless!

  • KindredSpirit, another solution would be to award psychiatric survivors benefits on the grounds that they were indeed disabled from iatrogenic damage. Unfortunately no one admits that these “safe and effective” poisons disable people during and after taking them.

    My hope is to earn enough as a freelance writer (it can be done if you avoid content mills) to get off the dole. Tough to do right now when I feel like I have the flu most days.

    There are some psych survivors who freelance as life coaches. This is good, but we could also use job coaches and small business consultants for our movement. Freelancing/solopreneurship seem like solutions to working with a spotty work history.

  • I always wonder at this intense hatred toward psych survivors by those who choose to stay in the system. One of my friends knows about my decision and supports it. But she still attributes every bad choice those in her circle make to “not taking his meds” or “her meds weren’t working.”

    I have a few theories to explain this behavior of psychiatric devotees and the payoffs they get from “having a mental illness.” Don’t have the space now.

    I would like to start an anti-psychiatry blog that would attack the false premise of psychiatry on metaphysical and religious grounds as well as scientific. Unfortunately I’m worried about preserving my anonymity. Not that mom ever reads my online posts anyhow.

  • Sam, KindredSpirit and I have feelings too. Even if we are not rich and powerful enough to curry favor with in the hope of making us “valuable allies.”

    When I pointed out how Lauren’s phrase would probably offend people, I was trying to help her be more diplomatic and avoid Ross Perot’s mistake. And yes, I was also concerned about the penniless nobodies on this blog. I believe they have feelings as well….

  • “…I refuse to take the idols of psychiatry as my ‘god.'” Another good argument against pro-psych churches. Might as well set up an image of the god Psychiatry and burn incense to it on the communion table. Apparently Jesus isn’t enough to save us “mentally ill” low lifes. We need Jesus AND “meds” for salvation.

    This was meant as hyperbole, but many psych promoters claim they found “salvation” in a bottle of Prozac/Effexor/Latuda or some other mind altering drug. Yes they use that word, even those who call themselves Christian. Antibiotics like penicillin can save lives, yet no one has ever glorified them in such a fashion.

    Getting high on crack can be a pleasurable, mystical experience and help you forget your troubles (so I hear.) I have experienced such a high on Anafranil. I wondered why this “medicine” wasn’t working. Now I believe it was working too well!

  • My dad tells this anecdote about a user of street drugs. She wrote a nasty letter to “Dear Abby.” At the end of the letter she told Abby she bet she wouldn’t have the nerve to publish it because her arguments were so brilliant–and she wrote the whole thing under the influence of said drug.

    Abby wound up publishing the letter in its unedited form. Not exactly the best argument for recreational drug use.

    The magic of spellbinding! 😀

  • The only truly rude and angry comment came from MadMother13. Lauren got pretty angry and defensive in response. Judging from the comment, I would say MM was in a rough place and perhaps forcibly drugged, recently electro-shocked, or otherwise traumatized.

    Always assume the best of people till they give good reason to believe otherwise.

  • Speaking from the right, I find the “anti-psychiatry” churches and the pro-psychiatry have one thing in common. It’s your fault, you crazy nutter! Quit bugging us.

    Anti-Psychiatry Church Person: Shut up and quit whining! You wouldn’t be crazy/depressed if you read your Bible/prayed enough/had faith/repented of the sin you obviously have committed.

    Pro-Psychiatry Church Person: Shut up and quit whining! You wouldn’t be crazy/depressed if you just admitted you were a mentally ill degenerate and took the pills that wonderful Dr. Quackenbush prescribed. You SAY you’re taking them, but we know you’re lying. Because Dr. Quackenbush says if you were taking them you wouldn’t hear voices/have seizures/feel hopeless/want to kill yourself. He’s a medical professional and you’re a mindless monster of depravity; so anything you feel, think, or say is crazy and irrelevant.

    See what an improvement the Pro-Psychiatry movement is! 😛

    Oh, yes, the folks who kicked me out of Indiana Wesleyan University were really into the benefits of psychiatric drugs. I was too, and felt it was my own fault when these “treatments” made me worse instead of better. Just knowing the truth about these so-called “meds” made me feel relieved and less guilty somehow.

  • KindredSpirit, yes spouse abuse is learned behavior, though some people have been able to break the cycle (personal accountability.) Some genetic traits indirectly linked to cruelty and violence can also be used for good behaviors though. A passionate love for beauty for example. Or being able to take risks as a police officer or fire fighter. Genes are morally neutral.

    Psychiatry, from what I can tell, teaches some of us are born “mentally ill” or completely irrational to the point of murdering for the joy of it and lacking any moral compass. I object to this view strongly!

  • Depends on how you define “establishment.” Alienating the MI Establishment? I doubt any MIA regulars are scoring points with them or even care.

    As far as the societal establishment surrounding us, yes it may be necessary not to alienate them. But the only way we can end discrimination (aka stigma) is to thoroughly discredit the shrinks who caused it. Once the public quits believing the defamatory lies and fear-mongering tactics of those pseudo-scientists the battle against “stigma” will be more than half won.


  • Actually I wasn’t attacking her when I pointed out that many might find “people like you” alienating and even patronizing. Supporting psychiatry/expressing dissident views is one thing, but insults are another. I’m willing to swallow the insult and get on with things. Others may not be and I was merely stating a fact. Words have meaning. (Yes, I realize Lauren had herself been insulted by a commenter and her anger was understandable given that she was honestly trying to help us.)

  • “…when she was originally hospitalized there was no blood work done to test her thyroid levels.” This has actually happened to me on more than one occasion.

    It will never make a TV series. Whether Welton is serious or not, it would never make it past the panel of Big Pharma sponsors. Not only would they refuse to run Effexor commercials during the program (duh!) they would most likely threaten to take their business elsewhere.

    If there were hope for such a series it might consist of a bunch of comic sketches presented on YouTube or Vimeo. Sort of like The Onion.

    Nowadays such a production can be very low budget. If anyone else wanted to try this kind of thing, I can write the screenplays. Of course we also need actors, technicians, video editors, director, producer, etc.

  • Wife-beating runs in some families. Some personality types may be genetically related that can lead to wife abuse. Environment is also involved along with personal choices.

    I have always been high on the neurosis spectrum. This makes me susceptible to bouts of extreme prolonged sadness since I was seven.

    I have found out there are positive traits to extreme susceptibility to negative emotions. Thoughtfulness, depth, empathy with others’ pain….

    I tried to kill this part of me with SSRI’s. Unfortunately this did not normalize me. All it did was numb the positive side to my neurosis. And I was too tired and apathetic to do much of anything.

    I happen to have really light skin. Some ivory foundation is too dark for me. My BFFL has really dark skin because of her African heritage.

    My light skin helps me absorb more vitamins from less sunlight than my friend’s does. It also makes me susceptible to sunburns and skin cancer.

    My friend’s dark skin helps ward off excessive sunlight, though it keeps her from absorbing Vitamin D as efficiently.

    Who has the “right” complexion? Do I have some genetic skin disease that can only be corrected by excessive hours in tanning parlors or baking under the sun?

    Does my friend need to correct her “diseased” complexion with sand blasting or applying dangerous chemicals to her skin to make her “normal?”

    How about neither of the above?

  • Thank you for clarifying your statement, Lauren. Yes, we are hypersensitive. This is a common problem with existing at the nethermost rung of society.

    I am very good at catching slights and slurs. That good old three-fingered handshake! Sometimes I imagine these when none are intended. But I doubt I’d be imagining them if they did not frequently occur.

    I’ll sign your petition. Good luck on your legal case!

  • Great point about the genes, RFTS! They may exist, but they have not been found. And psychiatrists have been searching for a long time.

    “Severe depression.” Just like I thought.

    Personally I find the “people like you” to smack of condescension, though MadMother13’s comment was rude. I remember a certain politician alienated African-american voters when he referred to them as “you people.”

    A lot of the MIA crowd are angry at you, Lauren, because you have had it easier than the rest of us. This is unfair and envy is wrong. But if you really wish to advocate for a group of people you can’t come across as looking down your nose at them.

    Robert Whitaker and other people without psych labels are loved and accepted by this movement because they address us respectfully as equals. If we wanted to be patronized and told “you don’t know what’s good for you, but we ‘experts’ do!” we could always join NAMI, DBSA or one of those other “consumer” organizations that speak out so boldly in favor of the status quo.

    That said, thank you for the legal counsel you are offering. It is better than nothing.

  • You don’t have to be violent to be labeled “severely mentally ill.” Many of us here can attest to this. I doubt you were on a “cocktail” or you would have to sleep 12 hours a day; no CEO could get away with that.

    Let me guess. You were labeled with “severe depression” right? That’s a nice, soft MI label. See your therapist once a month and pop some SSRI’s. Most of us here have not faired so well. My SSRI kept me awake for 21 days in a row, made me loonier than Minnesota, and basically ruined my life (with some help from the liars in the pharma-psychiatric industry.) I started out with hopes of becoming a children’s librarian and wound up settling for a career as guinea pig for the psych establishment. 🙁

  • I have been following Mike Adams’ Natural Health newsletter. Unfortunately conspiracy theories abound. And some of the commenters are too right wing even for me! (One denies the holocaust, another claims that circumcising babies is some evil movement to keep men from having happy marriages, and some claim germs/viruses/bacteria do not make you sick!) Mike Adams himself is not too “whacked out” in most of his articles. He’s not some anti-semite holocaust denier either. His own ancestry is mixed: causasian, afro-american, and native american. Natural News makes a great place for anti-psychiatry views as you can imagine. I may submit articles to them in the future. Adams doesn’t write them all.

  • As long as people are willing to engage in civil discourse there is hope. I’m fine with Lauren posting here. But she is a “missionary project” right now rather than an advocate of our movement against psychiatry. She also thinks that in order to qualify as “severely mentally ill” you must be violent. Not true at all!

  • I fired my last certified therapist when I realized she wasn’t even hearing what my actual troubles were. I was suffering severe social isolation, exacerbated by my single status.

    Her solution? “Hurry up and get it on! You ain’t gettin’ any younger.” (Paraphrase.)

  • KS, I will answer your legitimate question. Christianity is not a science and does not pose as a branch of medicine. If psychiatry claimed to be a faith-based religion I wouldn’t be as angry at them for lies and hypocrisy. Since psychiatry calls itself a legitimate science and branch of medicine it should be capable of passing rigorous tests to prove its accuracy. It cannot.

    I went through a period of questioning my faith as a teenager. Then I came across the discipline of apologetics. This is NOT a scientific branch of knowledge. Rather a hybrid of philosophy/theology with rhetoric thrown in. There are other fields of human knowledge than science and these can be applied to religion and other moral philosophy. Ultimately I decided that the Bible was true after all. It hasn’t made my life happier, exactly. But it has given me a sense of purpose, set necessary boundaries on my bad behaviors and kept me from suicide when psychiatry could not. I have also fallen madly in love with my one true Soul-Mate…but this isn’t the time or place for it.

  • Good point Stewart! The term psychiatrist means soul doctor. The term is oxymoronic. Many psychiatrists deny that souls exist–therefore this foregone conclusion PROVES all depression and psychosis must originate in the brain. As a Christian and supernaturalist I believe our souls often effect the brain as well as the reverse–along with other bodily organs.

    There are real brain diseases, like Alzheimer’s, meningitus, epilepsy, TBI and others. These can show up on brain scans and proven or disproven using scientific tests. Not just checking off arbitrary numbers of random lists of odd or bad behaviors and types of emotional pain grouped into “illnesses” that were voted into existence by rich pseudo-scientists with too much free time.

  • “Work” to help people maintain better relationships, work for a living, and quit wanting to kill themselves (and sometimes others.) Most people in the MI system are not needle-raped every month. That would be pretty expensive. For 20+ years I remained “meds compliant” because I had been misled to believe these neurotoxins worked. The vast majority of “consumers” believe these magical pills work. Try telling them otherwise and they become defensive, sometimes angry and even vitriolic. They see folks in the antipsychiatry movement as a bunch of old meanies who deny their experiences of emotional pain or psychosis. According to these misinformed people we just want them to suck it up, quit faking it, and deprive them of the “life-saving wonder medicines” their health and sanity depend upon. I have been there and used to think this way. Many of the folks who strongly support the MI System are themselves consumers. We need to remember this!

    Btw, more “normals” might become antipsychiatry if we could convince them that:

    1. SSRI’s have been linked to most mass shootings that were non-terrorist.
    2. By not drugging people long term they will probably be able to work for a living instead of living on disability at tax payer expense.

  • I sometimes recite the Lord’s Prayer. (As well as deeper, more thought forms of Christian prayer/meditation.)

    I have a real problem with forcing people to go through religious acts against their will. Meditation and prayer are both religious at their roots. Nobody should be forced to go through TM any more than therapists or case worker stooges should be allowed to force us to recite certain rote prayers in unison. Neither will do those so forced any good! Like those permanent smiley faces we had to make! 😀 Hated it!!! 😛

  • Very true! Very sickening!

    Churches have turned pro-psych for 3 reasons I think. One nice. The last two pretty nasty.

    1. People who suffer prolonged sadness or lose touch with reality need help. I agree. Unfortunately they will not find real help or long term solutions in the Psych Industry. If real help were offered it would not have to be forced on them; they would go out of their way to get it!

    2. A lot of the rich, prominent members of American churches are professionals. Especially medical ones (those belonging to the psych establishment.) Churches will go out of their way fawning on and currying favor with wealthy married people. They ignore poor singles. Who will they listen to? A wealthy medical professional in the mental “health” field with the required wife and 2.3 kids? Or some marginalized loser who can’t find work and never could marry thanks to the “help” she received at the hands of the psych industry? Take a guess.

    3. A lot of the folks in the mental illness system act in weird and annoying ways. Being extremely lonely, distressed and drugged out of your gourd will do this! Going off the drugs will cause problems if it’s done too quickly, as we know. Instead of putting 2 and 2 together–Dave is out of his mind because he’s experiencing DT’s, it’s easy to think Dave is crazy cause he went off his meds again! Just like his doctor said.

    Put Dave on double his original drugs. Cause Dave needs to be taught a lesson, darn him! He’s still not great company. Sits around gazing vacantly with his tongue poking out and rocks quite a bit. Hey, at least he’s not pacing now! He doesn’t bother the rest of us by talking about his stupid problems nobody wants to hear or his grandiose plans to become President. Woohoo! Problem solved. Let’s get on with our lives and let Dave rot in the corner.

    But first, let’s all pat ourselves on the back for the kind, benevolent humanitarians we have all proven ourselves to be. Cause we lied to Dave to get him locked up and “treated” so he’ll quit bothering us. Unselfish altruists that we are! 😛

  • I will no longer respond to Pat’s rants in the future. He obviously doesn’t read my responses–though he doesn’t seem to read much if any of the articles either. All white? What on earth?!

    If all he wants to do is lash out with mindless insults let’s “starve” him.

  • This is a very heterogeneous group at MIA. More so than the NAMI groups or other “consumer” forums. We have our share of secular progressives and atheists, but we aren’t all this way any more than we’re all caucasians. I am an evangelical Christian, a member of the GOP and believe capitalism is a feasible economic system when people are not consumed by selfishness and greed. (Socialism will also fail when people are selfish and greedy, plus it encourages laziness.) I find nothing incompatible with Christianity and opposing the maiming and killing of innocent people in the name of “science.” Nothing unchristian about fighting Josef Mengele. (Btw, he was a real doctor with medical papers to prove it. And a truly evil man.)

  • I wonder how many MIA articles you have read, Pat. White writers contribute, but also Native Americans, Asians, Hispanics, African Americans and people from other countries including those on the continents of Asia and Africa.

  • If I go up to someone to educate them on anti-psychiatry, I start out not by telling them that mental illness isn’t real. Instead I point out how none of the treatments actually seem to work. Then I ask them why there are no brain scans or spinal taps done (to check brain chemistry.) This gets them thinking for themselves and works a lot better than if I start shouting the Cliff Notes’ version of Anatomy of an Epidemic and the major works of Statz and Peter Breggin.

  • Yes. But astrology, fortune-telling and (to some extent) religion are all legal. People continue to visit astrologers, fortune-tellers and clergy.
    Psychiatry is an abusive, unhealthy relationship. But, just like I have girlfriends who refuse to leave their abusive boyfriends because it’s true luuuuuv! And I’ll die alone if I leave him! Wah! There are people convinced that their shrink is their LORD and Messiah who brings them salvation in the form of Prozac. Good luck convincing them that this belief is a delusion!

  • My experience differs from yours, Frank. From what you say I gather you were behaving in unusual, but legal ways, that upset some nit-pickers for some reason. You were then locked up and tortured or “treated” against your will. Indeed that must have stunk!

    My problems were real. I actually was suffering some kind of emotional backlash as a college freshman. (Sometimes I think God has punished me for not forgiving the kids who sexually harassed me in high school.) Something similar to what they call PTSD perhaps.

    I was worried sick to leave my dorm room. I became unduly suspicious of others watching me and laughing at me. I was profoundly sad, afraid to talk to anyone and wanted to kill myself but was afraid of Hell.

    Finally my therapist sent me to a psychiatrist. He put me on 6 mg of stelazine. That did take the edge off my anxiety–for a while. In the end it was no solution to my pain any more than whiskey would have been. 🙁

  • HSN, you have a great point. Right now I find myself tempted to wallow in self pity and see myself as a victim. Yes, I have been lied to, but I was all too ready to believe psychiatry’s lies. Why? They absolved me of my own bad choices and habits. Unfortunately, they also encouraged me to not change behaviors that were hurting others and myself.

  • For people with problems legitimately located in the brain, neurology would be the logical choice. If they ever did find a structural abnormality or neuro-chemical imbalance causing extreme prolonged sadness or loss of touch with reality psychiatry would become superfluous, since the neurologists could take over from there. This makes me wonder if the psychiatrists are actually trying to find such things, or if they’re claiming to be always on the verge–always very close, but no cigar–to bolster credibility without actually discovering enough to make their cherished profession obsolete.

  • If I had known all the facts and not been deceived, I never would have gone to a psychiatrist.

    Lies are a subtle form of coercion. Not as obvious as being forced to the ground by 6 orderlies and needle-raped. But just as disgusting an abuse of authority.

    If we could abolish all involuntary psychiatry AND all psychiatric deception/false advertising, the system would cave in on its own. No one would want it.

  • I consider myself emotionally “injured.” However, since the majority of these emotional injuries occurred directly and sometimes indirectly from the MI System, it’s doubtful any “treatment” they offer will help me heal.

    It’s like going to a doctor for a sprained ankle and having him smash your kneecaps with a baseball bat!

  • It has been SCIENTIFICALLY proven that over 30% of suicides would never have occurred if PSYCHIATRY had intervened with its magical wonder pills and brain fries!

    How do I know this is so? My PSYCHIATRIST told me himself. Dr. Quackenbush is real smart and knows everything. He told me that too!

    Stella Stockholm from Bipolarblabber (The only consumer blog formally endorsed by the APA. Highly recommended by NAMI.)

  • Bruce Levine has a Ph.D. in psychology or psychological counseling. Ironically he seems to hold his graduate degrees in contempt and says his training has little application to how he helps people.

    The quality of therapy I have received has less to do with their advanced degrees and more whether they saw me as a human being to help or a disease to treat.

    Aside from an occasional counseling session with a non-certified psych survivor, I have no therapists and am doing fine.