Friday, November 27, 2020

Comments by rebel

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  • Number 1: There is no money in covering nutritional supplements. Number 2:Very Rarely does the FDA “approve” of nutritional supplements like they do “drugs.
    And so, back to Number 1. Oh, did I forget, that if you see an advertisement for nutritional supplements, they will be a disclaimer that this supplement should not be used to treat any medical condition without a doctor’s approval. But, then, if you see the advertisements from “legal groups” who claim they will help you get compensated from some harm, you may have received a “drug” there is a tagline that you shouldn’t stop the “drug” without consulting a healthcare professional. Oh, and did, I say, if you read any book that gives you advice or suggestions about supplement or non-traditional medicine, etc. there is also a “medical disclaimer.” I don’t even see that when I read books on law that I must consult a doctor or about religion, I must consult a theologian or my local pastor. And there is a lot of other examples any one of us could name. Thank you.

  • I think for many people, especially me, distress usually comes when you speak for something you believe in or you try to live your life according to your beliefs, and a family member or a “professional” refuses to acknowledge what you say or how your live your life. This can be most disconcerting when you really are actually trying to uphold the values you were taught at a very young age. It is like people want to deny you your free will and your freedom to live and be as your Creator meant to live and be. This is the most frustrating as you must live your life without someone to back you in life’s battles. Sometimes, even those who should know better call you “crazy” or other dismissive things. They have unfortunately traded in safety for liberty. And, yes, this type of attitude is ripe and well-placed for psychiatric abuses on so many levels. Thank you.

  • samplover, You are right about the “doing.” Many of my happiest times were when I was “doing” something with someone or even several people; especially, if I liked the activity or I was treated with respect. I have even had times where the activity was well “boring, etc.” but the person or people I worked with made it easier. Why? We laughed, joked, told each stories, shared things. And, I am what many might consider an “introvert” because I am not usually afraid of my own company. That is, I actually, liked doing things alone, too. But, of course, each one of at times, must work or be around those we feel less comfortable with for a million and one individual reasons. Some would like you to think that there is a separation between being and doing; but, I think that is a highly incorrect assumption. You can not “be” unless you “do” and vice versa. The optimal is when you are “doing” what you love to do either with people you like to do it with or alone, if that’s what you like, also. Psychiatry, education, medicine, almost all institutions have sadly forgotten this. And, so many suffer because of this. Thank you.

  • Unfortunately, it’s not a perfect world, because, if I ever got those “millions”, I put some of it into something that would help those so damaged by these drugs and therapies. Oh, by the way that incident I mentioned in my comment is only one of many. I could write a book; but, my memory of those years on those drugs; especially, about ten or so years of it is very vague and at times comes and goes. There is no way I could find out what drugs, dosages, and when. Also, many of the psychiatrists, and therapists retired or left the employer. One psychiatrist, in particular, moved to another state, basically across the country. I had one psychiatrist who literally dropped at the end of the session; although I was still on several drugs, because of the health insurance I was on at the time and the deductible associated with it. She said that you people with that kind of health insurance never pay because of the deductible. I remember this because this was actually prior to the about ten years I was so drugged that, well, now really, “lost years” to me. Thank you.

  • With all due respect, distress was not always the reason I ended up in the mental illness environment. Most of the time, I was just looking for something and the something was usually the right career or job. And from there, I would be led to believe I needed a “mental health professional” to assist me and from that point I entered the world of psychiatric drugs; which caused me more physiological and other distresses to the point I almost died. Now, each day, I must contend with the brain injury resulting from the years of being “forced” to take these drugs. I realize that some people are in various kinds of traumatic situations; however, I can only say that these drugs and the “talk therapies” they use to defend the use of these drugs will only make it worse. Thank you.

  • This is an excellent article. One thing that stood out to me is “chemically induced brain damage.” And there is something that Willoweed said about “drugs to cover up the effects of other drugs.” From my experience with the “psychiatric industry”, that seems to be one of their justifications for “poly-pharmacy.” However, this is a “hidden justification” in a way. They would start with one or two drugs, then, they would say, “here try this drug because of the effects of these other drugs.” I remember having to be taken off “abilify” because it closed my throat to the point I could not swallow. Of course, then they put me back on risperidal, which, they had taken me off earlier for the “abilify” because “abilify” was such a wonder drug!
    But, it is the “chemically induced brain damage” that is the most haunting. Even after years off these drugs, it will haunt you. It is also unseen, in many cases, as opposed to a war veteran who might have tragically lost their legs or worse. And, perhaps, even more tragic, is after this happens, you are basically on your own. Traditional medical doctors already think you’re “crazy”, are dismissive, and/or try to return you to the very people who, basically, did this to you. I am not trying to complain or be vindictive. I only wish more people could be aware of this, but, there are few websites or places we can go and with the present “virus” situation”, these places have become less and less. But, I still have hope that all of this too will change in our favor. And, then, not only will our lives improve, but we might be able to help others avoid the terror that we were forced to experience. Thank you.

  • Please remember that you can not lose what you don’t have, i.e. a soul. Well, maybe some had a soul before they started “practicing” or maybe when they were children. Or, they, those little bullies in the school playground who always stole the other children’s lunches or pushed the other children off the swings and monkey bars, so they could “comfort” them and make themselves look “good” to their teachers? Thank you.

  • KindredSpirit, You could be right and you could be wrong and this also goes for me. I think, that to solve this issue we really do need to go beyond both political and economic systems. Yes, they are related and each feeds from each other. Almost everyone of us who reads and comments on these various articles on this site have been affected adversely by both the psychiatric community and by extension the entire medical community. There is no perfect answer, but, we probably do need to make sure that we do have a political system that allows us to speak freely and live freely. Unfortunately, I am not sure we are at that goal. And, it does behoove each of us to assist in reaching that goal and maintaining that goal. Thank you.

  • Kindred, I agree with many of your points, but, I respectfully disagree with the point on capitalism. There really is no perfect economic or political system. However, in my way of thinking and many may disagree; it is only in those systems that allow for the greatest freedom that we even have a chance at respect and dignity. And, as problematic as capitalism seems at times, until we find something better, it is the best we have available. Actually, I think there are two main things inherent to psychology and psychiatry that bode us the most ill will and cause us the most suffering and damage. These are greed and a desire to control others; because the controller can not control him or herself. Yes, this can happen in capitalist, socialist, communist, etc. systems. Although American psychiatry is definitely not blameless, but plus remember it has had some help here: from Cold War Russian Communism. Much of the tactics these psych folks use against were actually perfected by the Soviet Regime, i.e. the KGB. Thank you.

  • Sam Plover and everyone: Here’s an historic reminder about all doctors and how they received the “quack” designation. It goes back to the great Bubonic Plague in the fourteenth century. Let me see, according to this sidebar I read in a book called “Perfumes, Splashes, and Colognes” by Nancy M. Booth on page 3; when doctors visited patients during the plague wore false noses mad of leather or papier-mache which had a sponge soaked in aromatic vinegar on the tip. These “masks” looked like bird-beaks; thus they became known as “quacks.” Let me see, it’s well known that it was actually the fleas on the sewer rats that caused the deadly bubonic plague. It was not truly contagious. When they finally got rid of these sewer rats, the plague was gone. Well, maybe, the vinegar-soaked sponge scared away the fleas; but, I think sewer rats are like the opossum; well known to eat absolutely anything. So you see, the “medical profession” has had its difficulties since at least the middle ages, and seems to have been going downhill from there despite it all. Actually, on the whole, almost any progress made in medicine has occurred in the most apparently unlikely place, the battlefield. Thank you.

  • I’m sorry, but “social justice” is nothing more than an oxymoron or at the very least a misnomer. it could be go so far as “doublespeak.” It is neither social or justice. I, honestly, do not like the connection this article is trying to make between veterans and guns and restriction of access to guns by veterans. Actually, suicide by gun is not just limited to veterans or even men. Once, my father, as a Vietnam Veteran, had a brief time considering suicide. My mother, just hid the guns briefly, that’s it. The notion of restricting access to anything, including guns, implies governmental or other intervention, which is highly unconstitutional. Actually, if you extrapolate from this article, that if you think giving someone free speech or freedom of worship or assembly could cause them to be suicidal, that could be considered, also, even though that is unconstitutional. This is not just government overreach, it is Anti-American. In my line of thinking, it would make the veteran, already in a “down state” to further doubt his or her ability to be a contributing member of society. That is where the danger lies, when people begin they can no longer contribute to society. That is where these psychiatric drugs come in; they through they effects and even just the implication of their use causes a person to easily think they can no longer contribute to society. I know. It happened to me. To me, the way to lower the suicide rate is to stop the drugs, the false therapies, etc. and let people live and be as our Creator intended us to live and be and stop denying our human nature, both commonly and uniquely. Please let me and everyone live and be as they are meant to live and be! Thank you.

  • Thank you for this important historical information. I may learned that along the line, but easily forgot. I did look up his biography on the internet. Strangely enough, he seemed to have had some controversy with a well-noted General, George Washington.
    One more point, in Williamsburg, VA near the Colonial Williamsburg area is an underground museum dedicated to the first mental hospital in America. It’s rather interesting, but makes the Colonial Gaol in Williamsburg seem rather pleasant. Thank you.

  • I remember telling my last psychiatrist that I was NOT going to take any more of these drugs. I finally realized after I stopped taking lithium at the time (my nearly last drug) that I felt like I did when I stopped drinking alcohol. That is, after a night from hell, I stopped the alcohol, and then I felt so clean inside and outside. That is how I felt when I stopped the alcohol; which I did “cold turkey.” She did not listen to me because she wrote me another prescription for the lithium as a “protection” for me. I did fill the prescription and tried to take it. Luckily, for me, to no avail, and it it ended in the dumpster. Previously, the doctors, had taken me all the drugs, including the highly addictive valium, completely cold turkey. This is because the drugs had had it with my brain and body and I fell into a nearly comatose type sleep and was hospitalized. And, still, they tried to ply me with these drugs. Eventually, I did go through some sort of withdrawal, but, all kinds of strange things happened to me in the interim. Personally, I think, no matter how you get off these drugs, your life will never be the same again. You will from that day forward, make adaptations in your life and you may have responses to things and events, etc. that others can not always understand or for some, even care to understand. And, yes, there is medical malpractice, but the problem is, that there are so many of these “medical personnel” involved not just the psychiatric and mental illness “professionals.” that your case goes naturally goes unheard. Additionally, these drugs render your brain in such a state that it would seem questionable to anyone, but you, what really happened. Is there an answer? And, I say, yes, as soon as you are able, don’t just walk away, but run away. Thank you.

  • It would be so great to make psychiatry and psychiatrists illegal; just as it would be great to make all these “psycho-drugs” that have harmed so many of us illegal. But, we tried that with prohibition over a hundred years ago and it failed, because, if we did, there would be little “psychiatric and psycho-drug parties and bars” hiding in people’s basements and attics. Those that desired this “stuff” would find a way to get it. There might even be those willing to re-create this horrible “mental hospitals” and “ECT” in their basements and attics. Since, this is Halloween Eve, it does sound pretty ghoulish.
    The main thing we all need to remember and many in these types of businesses would like us to forget. And, since, we’re looking at about seventy years since, this was signed after the Nazi Holocaust Horrors is the Nuremberg Code. According to the Nuremberg Code, no governmental or other entity can force “medical treatment” on a person without their informed and knowledgeable consent. But, of course, so many so conveniently forget this; “Ah, it’s for your own good” or even worse, “Ah, it’s for the greater good or the good of others or all.” When you hear those words, walk away very quickly, because if it’s not good even for you as an individual person; it’s good for no one. Thank you.

  • After reading this article, the only confidence I can put it into anyone with an M.D. beside his or her name and associated health care professionals is if I would happen to have a broken leg. It actually comes back to one of my father’s favorite jokes, “The operation was a success, but the patient died.” Actually, the psychiatric propaganda and even other medical related propaganda has been a success; but the patients, etc. are still suffering from the tragic after-effects, etc. Thank you.

  • Yes, the Medical Model in Mental Health is finished; because it defines each person by their “symptoms” and their “illnesses.” But, in my opinion, the Medical Model in all Forms of Health Care or Medicine should be finished; as it does the same thing. In the Medical Model, we are all sick, either physically or emotionally. They are are scared of the morally or spiritually “components” of each individual. Yes, traditional Christian Religion speaks of each person as having sinned whether they know it or not or acknowledge it or not. However, even traditional Christianity has a way towards grace and forgiveness. The Medical Model in its errant simplicity just keeps pounding away at you and shaming you for whatever “sins” they see. Their “sins” are known as symptoms of an illness. Thus, they continue to cause a situation where it is nearly impossible for an individual to achieve well-being again. Thank you.

  • In the United States, “pill shaming” and “forced drugging” are one and the same. The only way to true well-being is to just walk-away from the whole medical/psychiatry fraud. One more point. The listing of the four different models and their comparisons is quite illuminating. However, I think the “right-based” model might be named instead the “freedom to be true to oneself” model. In my opinion, this is the only decent model that really upholds the dignity of each person. It is also the most compassionate. Thank you.

  • Yes, I had ulcers in my mouth. too. I almost asked the prescriber about them; but, soon after that, I totally quit the drugs and they were mostly gone. However, when stressed, one or two may flair up for a while and then go away. Of course, like you, that’s not the only issues I dealt with while on the drugs and then there was the withdrawal. sadly, even after the withdrawal, there are still issues in which to contend. However, since none of the drug-makers or the psychiatrists, etc. want to admit all this; it is very difficult to know how long any of this will last. But, since the brain is definitely involved, it may be lifelong. Thank you.

  • Medicine does kill people. The third leading cause of death is usually attributed to “pharmaceuticals.” All drugs cause side effects and some are extremely dangerous. All you need to do is listen to the “drug ads” where despite the rosy, happy pictures, in the background the announcer is listing only some of the side effects. And, usually, they end the commercial, with something like, “please check with your prescriber or pharmacist, because, of course, there are more. And, wait until the next commercial, which will be from some eager lawyer, who will try to convince you that you have a case against the drug company for the harm done to you by a certain drug. Tragically, it is the person prescribed the drug who is victimized. This is across the board and does not just include “psychiatric drugs.” And, this is only the tip of the iceberg.
    I believe someone mentioned the ads regarding “patients” who found out they had “td” that arose from the drug and this is “normal.” Well, there is nothing “normal” about this. This really is nothing but science for profit and control and we suffer. Aldous Huxley warned us about this in “Brave New World.” Drugs do harm and kill. The topsy-turvy world is that which allegedly is supposed to be good for you will actually harm or kill you. As, in my case, I am lucky to have gotten out of this morass, Alive! Thank you.

  • With all due respect to your comment, there is something troubling about what you wrote. I, myself, have lived through hurricanes, tornados, superstorms, blizzards, even a few earthquakes. And, yes, there is disorder. There can be disorder in one’s home, in the town or city you live, and in nature. Actually, this is normal. In nature, that disorder actually prevents further disorder down the line and it does restore itself, sometimes with human help and sometimes, not. Even after the Mt. St. Helena’s eruption, May 18, 1980, nature began to restore herself. On a daily basis, each one of us confronts disorder everyday and each one of us, uniquely, orders that disorder. Therefore, in my manner of thinking, disorder is the natural order of the day and our ability to create order from that order is what we humans do. So, in my humble opinion, what we need to do is not label someone as disordered or even claim it helplessness or more horrific than it is. We just need to realize that disorder is a natural part of life and the goal should be across all areas should be to assist each person how to value their unique way to put order into that disorder. Nature deals with it. We are part of Nature. Let’s just learn to live in Harmony with Nature and with Ourselves. All this labeling, diagnoses, treatments, therapies and drugs, etc. just causes more forced disorder and harms more than helps. As usual, we, silly humans, try to fix what is not broken. Thank you.

  • Please remember almost everything today is considered a disorder. I heard a new one on tv recently; “election stress disorder.” According to whoever; it’s supposed to cause “relationship problems” amongst married couples. I don’t know. The point is this: yes, they can make a disorder out of anything; which means that people suffering real trauma will get the proverbial “short-stick” thus further increasing their trauma. What it also means that in reality, it is not the trauma survivor or any survivor that has a disorder; but it is the world itself or rather the “powers that be” that are “disordered.” Therefore, the only real conclusion to make is: “It’s them, not us!” Because, if you look at the world today, is the “disordered” who are the most “ordered” and the most “sane.” Thank you.

  • How unusual to find a psychiatrist who won’t prescribe these “drugs” and even understands how these awful “drugs” affect you. From my experience here in the US, even the psychiatrist who claim they are not for “drugs: in treatment, will finally admit, “Oh yes, I do sometimes prescribe them.” And these are psychiatrists who take no Medicare or Health Insurance. Almost all psychiatrists, in my experience, when the patient has a bad reaction or complains about some side effect, it is usually the patient’s fault for not taking the drug as prescribed, being sick without accepting it or we are just going to add more drugs to your drug regimen. “Let’s schedule another med review!” the psychiatrist says in happy glee like the Witch in Hansel and Gretl before she puts the vulnerable children in her boiling hot cauldron. Thank you.

  • This is an amazing article, considering how long these “psychiatric drugs” have been out and available to be prescribed to the public. I have read various articles on “ECT” and it seems that the only real difference may be that the “psychiatric drugs” chemically induce many of the same effects and side effects as “ECT”; maybe at a much slower and sustained rate. I wonder if that could explain the issues in withdrawal. But, as someone who as endured these “drugs” for many years at a time, there is life after “withdrawal” even as my case; it was intentionally abrupt and some of this was partially caused by inept doctors. Still, one must know that after “withdrawal” in some to many ways, one’s life is forever altered. First, I was “disabled” by this alleged diagnosis. Now, I am disabled by the effects of that diagnosis; i.e. the “drugs and therapies, etc.” Thank you.

  • I think that someone wrote that she was diagnosed as a “relapsing schizophrenic” in Ireland and then she stopped psychiatry and is now well . How tragically ironic, that the best way to return to health and wellness is to completely divorce oneself from the psychiatric industry. I don’t want to throw rain on anyone’s parade, but, even, more tragically may very well be how “modern medicine” seems to now be following a similar path as psychiatry and related disciplines. And, dare, I say, in my experience, the “Medical M.D.s” seem to close ranks with the “Psychiatric M.D.s”. All were denying everything and anything about my condition or conditions. So, I trust no one with an “M.D.” by their name. Anyone with an “M.D.” by their name would have to earn my fragile trust. Thank you.

  • I have no real answers, but the therapist’s in most “community type” settings are nothing but LCSW’s. Therefore, I am unsure if a degree in social work is the answer. There are those who might argue that this is more of a moral or theological problem. There could also be an issue of motivation. The main thing, I think, is there is “no one size fits all.” This is perhaps the biggest problem in America and probably the “Western World.” I could say, “all we need is love.” But, that may be too simplistic. But, then maybe the other issue is our natural human error to make everything too complicated. In my dealings with the “mental illness industry” they were always looking for some hidden, forgotten agenda or trauma I supposedly had that had impacted my now adulthood. They even tried to make me think that I had been “mentally ill” since almost before I could walk or talk and that almost all my childhood experiences were now misconstrued to show that, yes, I was “mentally ill” from childhood. This is dangerous nonsense; probably used as an excuse to ply me with evil, dangerous drugs and complimentary therapies, etc. Thank you.

  • Although, there were some interesting points in this article, I am skeptical of anything that can be construed as a “drug” and “psilocybin” I believe is a “drug” although, it comes from “mushrooms.” The other point is “psilocybin” causes psychedelic experiences. Although, I am not a “scientist”, this just seem good for the brain. Although, there may be some people who might be able to handle this better than others. But, then, I am very concerned about making marijuana legal for recreational and even some medical purposes. “Psychedelic” drugs, like the “psycho-active” drugs just seem like another bad deal that could cause both short and long term harm. Personally, I prefer my mushrooms, fresh, fried gently in butter, on top of a juicy steak or hamburger. Thank you.

  • “lessons for future pandemics” obviously suggest the horrific concept of “planned-demincs.” This is nothing, but yes, snake oil for the masses. Vipers hiding in wait for the young people of our nation and the world. I feel sorry for these young people. They do not deserve the evils of these mass snake oil salesmen and women. Wake up America and the World. You are not only being used, but abused, and dare I say “raped” of your natural humanity. And, where did they get this snake oil learning; only from psychiatry and psychology. And where can this be traced to: Marx, Lenin, Mao and his buddies, Pavlov, Freud, B.F. Skinner, etc. etc. etc. Thank you.

  • Oh by the way; this is “Mental Illness Awareness Week:– October 5- October 11. As my late sister would say, “Oh Joy! Oh Rapture!” I know there is sarcasm in those words. A week set up just to bring these charlatans business! But, I would slightly like like to disagree with the author of this fantastic piece. No, you don’t have to be crazy; just duped and gullible. When it comes to psychiatry, P.T. Barnum said it right, “There is a sucker born every minute.” And, tragically, for me, I must confess I was a duped, gullible sucker! However, now, with my eyes wide open, I really do see the light! Thank you.

  • One thing that stands out to me in both parts of Paula Caplan’s essay is how normal human reactions to life are “medicalized” and thus, needing treatment, i.e. drugs and therapy, etc. Two normal reactions to life put me into this terror zone; vocational planning and grief. I say vocational planning, but, it’s just asking that age-old question, “the what and why of my life.” The grief part was in the loss of my sister and best friend to cancer. In actuality it was the state’s vocational rehabilitation agency that sent me into this wild goose of “hell!” It is beyond tragedy, dare I say evil, that normal life occurrences and questions are considered “worthy” of being diagnosed. And, as far, as my grief, was concerned, it was delayed “years” because of the drugs and therapy. But, the question is, who is really is afraid of death and dying? Perhaps, it is not us, but those who propagate this terror. Now, I think, when it is my time, I’d rather go peacefully than be subject to the horror and terror of these drugs and therapy. Yet, while even , under the effects of these “drugs”, I realized an odd thing about the word, “therapist.” Take it apart and it becomes, “the-rapist.” This is tragic, for those who really go to school with good intentions to help others in their life changes and suffering. But, these drugs and therapy, do absolutely nothing to mitigate the suffering and as far as life changes, your life is only changed for the worse. This is why so many in this hellishly awful mess, begin to think that only in “death” will have they have relief. Thank you.

  • I am sorry about what happened to you, kindredspirit. Steve McCrea is probably right in that there is a story underneath your tragic situation.
    When I signed my “contract” it was when I was in college; long before the horrific usage of toxic drugs and toxic therapies that can not only harm you, perhaps for life or even kill you before your time. When this happened to me, no toxic drugs or false diagnoses that never existed were applied to me. It was handwritten on yellow notepaper by me. Probably in this day and time; the way psychiatry, et. al; works it would be dangerous and lead to negative more harmful consequences than the actual self-harm itself. Only if you saw a private counselor, of the grid, so to speak, might it work.
    Since then I have been critically harmed and damaged by these mental illness zealots who said I had a diseases/disorders I never had (I am no expert; but I am not under the thought that self-harm means you have an alleged diagnosable disease/disorder.) and drugged me so horribly that eventually I got to a point my body almost shut down through a sleep I almost did not wake up from. Now, I am in the slow and steady state of withdrawal and healing; relearning my whole self; including my brain and body. My body is not always as happy as it used to be before the drugs; but, each day I get a little better. My mind is mostly very good; but one thing I am learning and which was hidden from me; is there is a uniqueness to my brain that must be honored and that when I operate from that uniqueness; I do better and am happier. etc. But, of course this all hid from me for their own self-interest; not mine. What happened to me worked until the paper died and the toxic drugs and therapy got forced onto me. Now off all that toxic junk, I don’t need a contract or anything. I just need me and God. Thank you.

  • In my experience; as having done self-harm against myself several times in my life; the absolute best (for me, personally) is just a small written or perhaps “typed” contract between you and yourself that you will not harm yourself again. My college student therapist had me do this. I carried this small written contract that I signed and he may have signed in my billfold until it was tattered, torn and virtually unreadable for many years. Later with this contract no longer in my billfold and under the influence of the very toxic drugs, very toxic therapy, serious stress, and a very toxic, abusive work environment and supervisor; I did self-harm again (by cutting.) However, at the time, my sister, who has now passed away, just bandaged me up and listened to me although she had her own stress (she was dying of cancer.)
    But, I think the point is that usually the simplest and most obvious ways to change or alter a harmful behavior is so easily dismissed by alleged educated professionals. But then, like in all these supposed “abnormal psychology things” the people who perpetuate these useless, toxic therapies and drugs need to perpetuate them for their self-interest; not the individual truth and good of the person. There are so many forms, methods, and reasons for mind control; but, they all fail. God gave us (our minds, etc. ) Free Will for a purpose. Religiously and spiritually it might be His purposes; rather than immature, small minded human purposes.

  • I think someone posted that “spousal abuse” is “learned behavior.” It seems to remember “back in the day” in my psychology classes they taught us that a man named “Seligman” said that “depression” is also “learned behavior” as in “learned helplessness.” I realize that is only a “theory” yet it seems very easy for “psychiatry” which prides itself on being able to assist in changing “abnormal behavior” can so easily “change their tune” from possibly “learned helpless” to a “lifetime brain-biochemical imbalance” without real proof or scientific data and sell it to the “public.” “Depression” is a ridiculous label for “humans, etc.” anyway. It’s Hurricane season and the only “depression” that means anything to me is a “Tropical Depression” which is probably where they stole the word from; “meteorology.” It makes sense since psychiatry steals without any moral thought or artistic license. In my opinion, there most likely is no such thing as “depression” just varying forms of “grief” due to the changes, successes and failures of life we all must face if we are to learn anything from our time here on Earth.
    Somewhere, deep in my heart, is the unresolved appall that life, living and what not has become an “abnormality” a “disease” a “defect” and in need of drugs, treatment and therapy etc. What we need is a good-hearted person who will just tell us it is alright to feel as you feel; be as you are; etc. But, then where is the false control, the false authority; the false experts; the stigma we need to make a cause against?
    Psychiatry has become the worst possible of any religions made by humans; but I refuse to take the idols of psychiatry as my “god.”

  • Yes, It is either a character flaw and a moral failing or a terrible biochemical brain disease; stigmatized; and needing toxic drugs and therapy to maintain
    for life; (you never get better!.) But, of course, how can you already improve from who you are ; which is what both are basically trying in some way to extinguish. I believe it was the great poet; e. e. cummings and I can’t remember the exact quote who said the hardest “battle” we have is to be ourselves. The best thing I suggest and have learned the “hard way” is forget them and just be yourself. It is not a character flaw or defect to be as the Good Lord created you.

  • There are seemingly millions of posts here and I am not able to read all just yet.
    Still, I am beginning to consider a very strong possibility in regards to politics, religions, psychiatry; etc.
    First, I want to say thank you to Lauren Andersen for having the strength to share her story. I am so sorry for the horror she faced. In a manner of speaking; each one of us has endured our own unique horror in the face of psychiatry and mental health.
    What I do see is that on the “left” for lack of more adequate terminology; psychiatry has become their religion. This is obvious from the way the ACLU refused or just ignored your case and other cases. On the “right” the “judgmental brand of Christianity as opposed to the Christianity of mercy” has merged with their idea of “political rightness” to in essence become like the psychiatry of the left, a new religion. Both are dangerous and oppressive. Obviously, neither side is our friend; but it would be detrimental to call them “enemies.”
    Right now, we see both sides operating, believe it or not in tandem and also against each other to attempt to control our lives.
    It has been reported that we have a terrible “opioid” epidemic killing more people per day; than many wars, etc. This is just a “tip of the iceberg.” When we confront psychiatric abuse in its many forms; including the toxic drugs; history will record those who are psychiatric survivors and others similarly situated or fighting for these cause as the heroes of the age. We will not be forgotten. We will not crawl under the desk waiting for the bombs to drop. We will stand tall and regain our natural born freedom and liberty back.

  • I agree with the other posts. This is an idea beyond “wonderful.” Art heals naturally; unlike toxic drugs, therapies, and associated Garbage. Religion; at its best, when it’s done in Truth; does the same. Psychiatry attempts to be a religion and fails on all accounts. ( I have heard some say that current politics is also trying to become a religion.) Both are false religions and hurt.
    As for my personal story; I, now know that I was falsely and basically diagnosed for being who I am and for just going through the changes and challenges of life; including losing my best friend and sister to cancer and doing the what should I do as a career thing?
    I now realize that I operate from a natural born artistic, visual-oriented, “right-brained”, imaginative, intuitive, poetic perspective and that is just me. I tell my mother; who still doesn’t quite understand me; it’s too late to change me now!
    However, I would like to add :Please do a Book 2, maybe even a Book 3, 4, etc. There are so many of us could benefit from telling our stories through the various forms of art from painting, drawing, crafts, to music, literature, poetry, etc. I think this may be a fantastic way to get our story across without the terro of hostility; etc.

  • Please read how the ancestors of the Native Americans appreciated those who “heard voices.” The description is the “devotional book,” “Earth Medicine” by Jamie Sams. The notation referenced is on page 142; “Fifth Moon, # 24 Honoring Every Person.” This passage on this page is very uplifting. They were not suppressed by toxic drugs or ECT. They were honored and appreciated. The Ancient Ancestors knew deep within that those who “heard voices” had something special, spiritual, and necessary to say to the people. When I read this, I almost cried. We think because we are in a modern era; scientific, technological that we are far advanced than those who came before us and those who may be of different backgrounds; but, obviously, this is not true. Just because, we are in the twenty-first century does not mean we are by any means further advanced than those from the past.

  • Darby Penny; I Like the way you call NAMI and by extension Autism Speaks; Hate Groups. You can also add to that practices like Tough Love. It is a tragedy, in one way; because some of these parents think they are doing the best for their children and this is how to show their love. But, none of this real true love. It only shows and proves again; many feat what they cannot or refuse to understand; even if comes from their very own children. I am grateful for Sara for explaining the comparisons to us. It is helpful to be enlightened when we can. And, from experience, NAMI, ;like the alleged mental illness “industry, they support has only one goal to keep you “sick” by their false standards. Autism Speaks seems to have learned this well.

  • Ask Me! Ask Me! I will tell you exactly what to say so they will think you are depressed and then you get those little pills, and everyone is so happy; especially those people who prescribe those little pills. Honestly and tragically, most of those screenings are as they say easy to “psych” out and the screeners are so gullible. I really don’t like to divulge this; although I am a “fan” of the Enneagram and the MBTI and others (at least they don’t try to drug you) I can manipulate those answers to obtain any personality type I choose. However, as a deep-down ethical person of integrity, I really try to answer the questions to what I think, at the time, is may, most like me. Unfortunately, for me, I did “hooked” into the system and answered the questions in a way that I now realize helped them and hurt me. But, we have parted ways. I don’t mean to be religious; but, the only word I can think of is “ALLELUIA! ALLELUIA!”

  • Why do they do studies that really is common knowledge? I am not sure what they are attempting to justify. I am always in trouble with my mother because I refuse to join the twenty-first century on the “cell-phone/smart-phone obsession” and keep mine charged. Knowing the psychiatrists, they will probably find a disorder label for this; but, I really abhor those things.

  • I read that Torrey had tried to link “cat litter” to schizophrenia. I am still trying to figure that one out. Even, my cat is trying to figure that one out. Of course, I did have several therapists who had more cats than I ever did. (I have only had up to two at a time.) whose consideration of their clients appeared questionable. Linking cats to mental illness is like linking milk to criminal behavior; as almost all humans get some kind of milk product in infancy.

  • I could have told you the results of this “study” without hearing the “results.” From what I read, others can, also. Screening for depression is a sham. Depression is really just the mind/body/soul in a corrective mode as “it” confronts life. It is has become such a tragedy that every breath you take becomes some awful illness needing drugs, treatment and such. There is psychological concept these modern day psychiatrists, psychologists, mental health/illness people like to hide under the rug. It is called “self fulfilling prophecy.” They do not want to have anything to with any psychology that shows how powerful the mind really is and can be without their toxic drugs and toxic therapy. They keep acting delusional; yet “self-help” books from all arenas of thought keep getting published, people are buying them; showing our less and less need for their idiotic control and push into the land of the zombies.

  • Please always remember “diagnostic criteria” is voted upon by the members of the American Psychiatric Association. There is no real objective criteria. Of course, in “dealing” with humans can there ever be objective criteria? Psychiatrists and other medical and health care professionals have deluded themselves about this for years. There are excellent descriptions of “human personalities and expressed behaviors” although still “flawed” in the Enneagram, Myers Briggs, and other personality/temperament analysis.
    However, in the case of the current president, he is such a danger to the security, freedom and stability of not only this country, but the whole of Mother Earth, we really need to “bury the hatchet” and find a non-violent way to assist him to a new job/career.
    The 25th amendment could be utilized. Investigations through various governmental agencies and Congress are being attempted. I cannot predict the outcome.
    What is important is that we want to bring public our cause and that if we continue to continue our American lifestyle, though “flawed” but still in the capabilities of trying to make all the lives of Americans and all Earthlings better, if necessary, we may need to bury our “cause” let him be deemed “Mentally Ill” and then after the dust settles; bring our cause to the forefront like all good causes.
    We have a great deal of work and education to accomplish; but as it stands now with the current president, our very important cause will be lost; we will not be heard in the moment to moment crises of these days.
    Sometimes, it is more courageous to see something played out; because although our cause is probably one of the most important causes of this century; it will die if we continue as a nation under the present administration.

  • Thank you so very much. I will try to get that book from Amazon. I can probably bet my father somehow had seen that book as he was an undergraduate in 1954. As far as the “lie with statistics” in psychiatry studies. YES! YES! YES! However, this “lie with statistics” is rampant all over present day medical science and health studies of all specialties. Like so much in this strange world, a lot of that stuff is put out there just to generate fear and eventually greed based income and control and power, etc. It is imperative that we stay wide awake in these times; which is definite opposition to as another blog on this website states; “a sedated society.” I listen a lot and sometimes, I feel some may almost be there; but not quite, not yet, it seems.

  • That Course, “How to Lie with Statistics” sounds fascinating. You stated that it first came out in the 1950s. This has cued my interest even further. My father, who just passed away, at the age of 79, in 2013, graduated from College and received a graduate degree in the 1950s. One of all time favorite lines to me even after he did further graduate studies in the 1970s in Sociology was there are three kinds of lies; “Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.” I wish he were still alive as I would love to ask if that is where he got that phrase. It seems more true in 2017 than it might have back in the 1950s. So true and more. . .

  • Nomadic: You are right. We need not to force anyone to accept that they are mentally ill and I am say just such a radical rebel, I would we should not press anyone in to saying they have a physical illness. We have become a nation of diagnosed people who need to have their lives maintained by outside authorities (i.e. the medical/psychiatric industry.) One of the complications of any health care system in our nations, probably the whole “Western world” is this tendency to see us not as wholesome and healthy; but, as sick and needing of some sort of treatment. We are terribly entrenched; but we will get out. However, we must realize that to fight the psychiatrists, we must fight the entire health care industry as it stands. This is a fight we will win. But, unlike other fights, it will take more than protests, write-ins and call-ins to congressmen, and the usual methods. It starts with each one of us at a personal level. It is our choice. It is how we view ourselves. The most important thing for each one of us to do other than what we are doing is to say NO to absolutely anything that does not resonate with the truth of ourselves. Psychiatry tried to continue the process of schools, religion, and other institutions, they tried to steal our souls. What is the most insidious about this is how they did it with toxic drugs and toxic treatments that just compounded our pain and made us into real zombies; all the time lying to us and saying they were our friends. They saw an opening in our souls and swooped into fill it with their toxicity in so many forms. The most radical thing we can do each morning is look in the mirror and say it’s okay to be – no matter who you are. Psychiatrists tried to tell me I was defective; I had a diagnosis, a disease. HOGWASH! I am just a unique human being with unique gifts and talents, a unique personality and interests. In pure psychological terminology, they were trying to project their feelings of being defective on me. I woke up! I day not just no; but HELL NO! Take that psychiatry. I am me and damn proud of it!

  • Feelin Discouraged: You are absolutely right. They hide under the mask of authority, respectability, and degrees with letters beside their names. So, people think it’s alright to take these drugs. They were prescribed an M.D. But, increasingly, not only psychiatrists prescribe these drugs, but of course, pediatricians, general practitioners, internists, ob-gyn and those in other specialties prescribe these drugs. Also, nurse practitioners, physicians assistants, and anyone approved by the M.D. or signing the M.D.’s name can prescribed these drugs (depending on state laws) Additionally, a woman would not take these drugs, if pregnant. Yet, today, they get away with prescribing drugs such as antidepressants to these women with the weak argument if we did not prescribe these drugs, they might commit “suicide.”
    This does make them far more dangerous than any drug lord or drug pusher. These people can kill you and get off “scot free.”

  • Feelin’Discouraged, Please never ever think you deserved what happened to you for any reason. You did not deserve it! I, too, got trapped into the abusiveness of the current “psych” system. In college, I first went to student counselors in the Counseling and Guidance Department through the College Counseling “System.” They were on the up and up. No toxic drugs were involved and we did serious work on dealing with my “issues” at the time.
    But, years later, when I first looking for a career that would give me joy and then when I moved and was out of work I ended up in the State Vocational Rehabilitation Office. From there, I ended up in the mental illness system. From there, it started with Tegretol, which I could not take and then Lithium. A few years later I moved and was able to disassociate myself from them and was drug-free for a few years; until my best friend and sister was diagnosed with cancer. A few years after that, you could say I “got off the wagon.” I saw several of these drug pushers and then one ditched me saying I couldn’t afford her because of my insurance policy. She had the kindness of heart to drop it to me when I was trying to make another appointment; but, she left me holding the bucket as I was still taking the drugs.
    Then my sister passed away. VR then guided me back into the mental illness peoples. This time, the toxic drugs got more and more. I was determined to be “seriously and pervasively mentally ill.” I have very scant memories of my life from about 2004 until about 2013. They decided I was “schizophrenic.” I spent eleven days in a mental hospital; came out and they couldn’t wake me up for days. I ended up in a real hospital with a “false” diagnosis. They abruptly took me all the drugs with no tapered withdrawal; except lithium. They lied to me and other stuff. I finally got tired of it and due to some family things, I moved. I started out in my new place seeing the psychs, etc. They messed with my drugs; “browbeat” me if I complained about them; threatened to test to see if I was taking them. In the meantime, I read “Anatomy of an Epidemic.” Also, I was so sick I couldn’t eat or sleep or anything. Then, one day, I tried to take the drugs and “threw then up.” I said; “NO MORE!.” I saw an idiotic psychiatrist one more time. I told her no more drugs. She insisted that I take a low dose of risperidal or I might have a relapse. I think I tried to take it once. I never saw her or the inside off that place again! The last time I was there was May 2013. No RELAPSES YET! I have dealt with much fatigue and other issues during the withdrawal. I have actual had more complaints of the body, than the mind. I tell you my story so you know you are not the only who got “suckered.”
    You may be sensitive; but for a very good reason. I think there may be some kind of “artist” hiding inside you. Experiment. You will realize that despite it all, you are here for a great purpose and reason. My heart goes out to you. You are stronger than you think. You have the strength of millions who never tried to walk your path.

  • I will admit that I am not familiar with the Natural News site. However, I question if the “self proclaimed ‘elite’ … freaking out after their candidate supposedly lost the Presidential election, and now that their appalling sins are being exposed for the world online.” It is true that no one is without sin and the other old line about “he throws the first stone.” I think as far as our cause goes; their has probably been an unsaid or unwritten complicity by some in the former administration. One of the problems with our government is that it can be so insular, the real truths are hidden from the main people. Sometimes, those in power are not really those in power. However, if you think the present “administration” is without sin or Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm; I beg you to read a book of poems Called “Desolate Country” an Art Uprising anthology or a “Blessed are the Weird” by Jacob Nordby. Both are available through Amazon.
    You will see that although our cause is great and needed, their is a cause greater than ours. I also believe about the “elite” that there is no “elite” but the “power” we give them. It is unfortunate that Google took down that site. In the end, I am not sure who to blame or if blaming would do any good. I think, that not only, “should” we speak up and be educated about as many things as we can and especially in this area; the most important thing to our “cause” and our “healing” is to accept who we are and be who each one of us; even in face of all opposition. I am not encouraged that the present “administration” appreciates those of us who are different; “artistic” “creative” “intelligent” etc. But, that should never stop us from being who each one of us is meant to be. .. . never.

  • The problem with psychiatry is that it tried to be a science; when it really is a combination of art and philosophy. The way modern Western medicine is practiced, it, too tries very hard to be a pure science; when it also has components of art and philosophy. Any good doctor, especially from the pre Big Pharma and insurance age, would have cautioned the patient that true diagnosis is a real “art” and somewhat “intuitive” in nature. A scientist who knows his or “her” stuff will also explain how much the one doing the “experiment” will subjectively affect the outcome; even in the “hard sciences.” Now, of course, when you hear the results of a study in the news; especially of a health or medical subject, that information is conveniently swept “under the rug.” I do not follow those delivering the message. I fault those who gave the message without the full truths to the messenger. Real science needs not only the ability to “replicate” its findings in successive experiments. (Which they rarely seem to do in health or medical studies) but also in the “laboratory” of real life and the real world.

  • However, there is one thing I would like to add. I do not think people’s personality change; as each person though out a lifetime learn, relearn, discover and rediscover themselves and more about themselves. But this can not be studied or measured. The only way to “study” is to gain enough trust from someone that they will open up and tell you their life story. There is no study ever that can describe the wonder of the human being or any creature, plant, etc upon this Earth. It is even more and more evident with humans. I am not trying to discount science and yes there is a lot to learn “scientifically” about the earth and sky and who lives here. Yet, we need to stop trivializing our lives and lives well lived. I could continue and I am no where near age 77; but, I do need to attend to a joy I have had since before age 14.

  • This is a great article; as true in America as it is in Britain. I think someone mentioned “street drugs.” I am no scientist; but I see no difference. In fact, I see the doctor or psychiatrist in the same manner as I see the “drug pusher” on the street. To convince you to take the drugs, they say similar things; like, “oh, this will make you feel better.” or “all your problems will go away.” The only difference is their casual mention of “side effects” but you have to pry it out of them and those little initials by their name. To “fight” this we will have to fight the whole medical, health care, drug (legal and illegal) and insurance industry; but, it is a fight worth fighting. However, like all good struggles for virtue and righteousness, the struggle begins at “home.” Get educated and stand up for yourself and when they try to force drugs on you “just say no!”
    Learn to be in charge of your own health. Don’t let someone else or the doctors be in charge. You are you and you know yourself the best!

  • I think someone mentioned how this threatens the notion of “personality disorders.” Until the late 80’s personality disorders were known as neurosis. They just changed the name to sound more “scientific.” Still, I think I will think that new course at the University of Washington to verify if science is again misleading the public. I do not see any explanation of the tests used, variables qualified for; or how they can truly account for the results. There is also no mention of how they adjusted for experimenter bias. “Personality disorders” are hogwash; as how can a personality be out of order. Is the personality like a washing machine at the laundromat? Which also leads me to believe that this whole “experiment” is hogwash. Most of the personality is set by school age; however there are a few parts still out there at age 14. Then there are many so astute in these experiments; they can adjust their answers. True studies of anything so “human” are intensely anecdotal only. Even studies of “non-human” personalities are anecdotal although we can only rely on second hand evidence. Money would be better spent in finding ways for helping people love who they are and not some useless study.

  • Sounds like a great course to me. However, the right will say it’s “liberal media bias” and the left will say it’s “right anti-scientific bias.” Each one will come up with their own version of “fake news.”
    Has not any one realized that real truth and real answers are neither liberal, conservative, or even moderate and no matter your political or even religious beliefs, you are being manipulated.
    I would like to take this course, but I live on the other side of America.

  • I, honestly, don’t know if trump should be diagnosed as “mentally ill” or not. I would first think it might be disadvantageous to our cause; yet, if American Democracy and the safety of America is at risk; all I can is I don’t know. I did hear on the television from one the psychologists that the basis of their petition was his behavior; as seen on the various speeches, etc. he has done. He said there were not using the old-fashioned way of the “psychiatric interview.” I did think this was interesting in that I, and perhaps many of you were totally “diagnosed” through “psychiatric interviews” and this included the prescribing of the “toxic drugs.”
    I do not agree with every political idea written here. I do not believe we are a “sick society”; we are being “punished by God” or that this is “Biblical Prophecy.” As for who voted for ‘trump” like “Hilary” there is no actual profile of the actual voter. Each voter is unique. However, I do think the Republican Party seems to be drifting towards the farther of the right positions. I am not sure how far left the Democratic party will counter. Also, if you notice the news, the town halls for the legislators during their break are full of protests and for some legislators; some are hiding from the voters.
    I do agree with Nomadic. I think if there is a group we should follow in our cause; it would be the Black Panthers. I know there was some negative press about their tactics; but, the main thing the gave the African American adults and children the all important concept of Black Pride. And that gave the courage to fight their way to the White House.
    Most of us have been hurt so much by the psychiatrists, their toxic drugs, their toxic buddies, and all the other accompanying toxic stuff, we seriously need our pride back. No matter what goes on this country or this world; we need to reclaim our selves, and fight for that right. Of all the rights granted to us by “whomever” (fill in the blank) the absolute right for each one of us to be who we are meant to be and no body else is the absolute most important. And, if anyone ever tries to take that away from me again; no matter who they are (or were) I fight; perhaps not with guns and swords; but with something better and more long-lasting; the sheer force of being me!

  • “High-functioning” is another garbage label; like any diagnosis or being labeled as “seriously and pervasively mentally ill” of which they tried to force all those labels on me; but, I am just fine now; only still trying to get through the sometimes evil withdrawal and de-tox symptoms. I still think everyone misses the point. One need not be diagnosed or labelled as mentally ill to be termed a danger. Sadly, this current man in the office is a danger to our once credible American democracy and therefore the democracy of the Earth. If he is labelled “mentally ill” this would be a ruse and the real issues at hand are going to basically get “thrown under the rug” so to speak.

  • I respect your opinion; and yes, “homosexuality” was once considered a mental illness diagnosis; however, one’s sexuality or gender has absolutely nothing to bear on their ability to govern or lead a nation. One’s particular gifts, talents, or skills are given “amoral” and thus one can choose to use them for good or not which is not dependent on one’s sexuality or gender.

  • I think I would like to add my comment. As far as anything about the just past “Obama” administration, I cannot comment as I was so toxically drugged, I have very little memory of it and something unusual to me, I don’t even remembering voting in the elections. I will say for someone who was a President, he seems essentially “laid-back.”
    As far as labeling the current man in office ( I refuse to state his name) it would probably be useless and disadvantageous to those of us who are true “psychiatric survivors” and really might not hurt our cause. In thinking of our particular cause, it is not incumbent on any political party and we will need to be able to “rise up” against both. In fact, we will need to “rise up” not only against the psychiatrists, Big Pharma, and their supporters, but, also against the entire health care industry. It is a monumental “fight” but extremely worth it and will likely continue past our “generations.” I do applaud the protests, etc. that have arisen since the inauguration. It seems as if many are “waking up.” This may in the end help our cause.
    Finally, I would like to make an important point as least to me. This current person in office and his sycophants speak obsessively about “fake news” and point to many major media outlets. (I will agree with those who consider this a “threat” to American democracy, free speech, and way of life and has some insidious possibilities.) But, the speaking of “fake news” and the other good one, “alternative facts” when you think of those of us who have been given false diagnoses or diagnoses that never existed and caused so much damaging horror in our lives that we are seriously trying to heal and have our lives restored and resurrected is really and truly beyond any words in the English language. It is that “horrific” and is a form of “verbal terrorism.”
    I will admit after last week’s press conference, I remarked to my mother. “Now, you know and can be sure that I was NEVER, EVER mentally ill at any time.” She actually did agree.
    Still, I think labeling him “mentally ill” would be disadvantageous and might be “harmful” to psychiatric survivors. I honestly think there are perhaps other issues that will take him down. It will be extremely interesting to see his reaction and his sycophants’ reaction when these issues do become more prominent and “threaten” his alleged “power” and “control.” One must remember he is up against a “democratic” institution of over 240 years and he is been in his alleged position just about a mere month.

  • aa I appreciate and respect your comments. Like most of us you, too, have had unnecessary struggle and suffering. I think, in a way, Alex, Monica, and I speak so highly of “self-healing” is that in a way all healing is self-healing. Alex and Monica have written how they have sought various outside sources to help them in their healing journey. They also said they are still on their journey. I might be the only one to seemingly rely almost totally on myself. But, I do consult various books, the internet and other sources. I admit to relying on my intuition, prayer and meditation to guide in my healing journey. Like Alex, and Monica, I am “still not there, yet.” I have certain personal goals that I am trying to accomplish. Some days, the greatest goal I have accomplished to wake up and be glad I live and can take a breath; because I know as long as I can take a breath, I still have better than a fighting chance for success. When I say almost all healing is self-healing, it is because the good and ethical doctors realize that in the end their drugs, treatments, etc. can only do so much. I do not mean to be blunt; but, I don’t how many times my father would tell me when I even had so much as a cold, “Dear, you have got to want to get better.” Not one of us is trying to denigrate or deny another person’s healing journey. Each one of us does what we need to do to get better and each one of us has our good days and bad days along this journey. We are all still human beings. Yet, in my opinion, to “heal” you have to want it, you have to dig deep within you and say to yourself, “I want to live! I refuse to die!.” No matter who or who you do not consult for help, if you do not tell yourself something like this you might not heal as you would like. As Monica, we are not trying to “sugarcoat” here. This is reality; as real as it will ever get. I do wish you well on your journey and I wish you well in all the decisions you make in your healing journey. Only you know what is best for you. It is the same for each one of us. It is good when we remember and respect this.

  • oldhead you are absolutely right that we need to warn about the repercussions of this drugging; just, like we are constantly warned about the repercussions of “illegal drugging.” Our “success stories” are important, in that, we can give others who are suffering; hope; and that there is really “light at the end of the tunnel” so to speak.
    We need to tell our stories both of the horrible and the evil inflicted on us and on how we might have found our way to “healing, health” or whatever. In a way, both parts of the story are important. The part of the horror of the “drugs” warns others to stay away; like don’t go on that mountain full of rattlesnakes. The other side of the story tells how we have basically learned how to take care of ourselves, how to stay away from drugs, and self-healing and how we learned to reclaim our lives and true selves. The other part of the story is how we learned somehow to come down off the mountain of rattlesnakes. However, like all good things it starts with prevention. Please work to prevent those you love to stay away from the psychiatrists and their little friends and like Nancy Reagan; just say no to drugs; but it must be say no to psychiatric drugs. These drugs are really just the “illegal” drugs in disguise; the disguise that it is alright, even beneficial to take these drugs. When need to reinforce the idea that it is not okay to harm yourself in any way, including these drugs, psychiatrists, their ilk, and their little “toys.”

  • I think maybe a major issue here is that now we are being told due to the “toxic drugs” we took, we now have “permanent” physical damage; including brain damage. This could be for some; it should not be totally ruled out. Yet, being told that we now have permanent physical damage is akin to our being told we had some terrible “mental illness” that is permanent and life-long and can only be maintained by taking these “toxic drugs” everyday, participating in therapy, et. al. and basically turning our lives over to other people because they are the authorities and we are defective and damaged goods! As one can well see, from these posts, this is a terribly incorrect and false assumption that has hurt many lives in so many ways. It is not that we do not sustain some effects from taking these drugs. As for me, I can no longer take any drugs; so I do worry if I “come down” with an illness that needs an anti-biotic or anti-viral drug or if something is causing me very sever pain and I need some kind of “pain-killer”. Although, even before this, I would reject the “opioid-based painkillers.” Of course, this could change over time. Despite everything our bodies and brains are malleable. Look, we were convinced we were sick and needed drugs when we just being human beings. But, I am like Alex and Monica in that I truly believe in the power of “self-healing.” I also believe in the “power of intuition.” If you listen to yourself, your mind and body will guide you to what you need to be healed and also if some weird symptom arises, your intuition will gently remind you. “it’s just the withdrawal and de-tox and it will soon go away.” Shakespeare was right when he said, “to thine own self be true.” That is the key to all healing. You need to relearn who you really and truly are and this will guide you to total healing of mind, body, spirit, and soul. And, as far as “healing” goes, only you can define that for yourself; no one else can,

  • Yes, Fiarcha, yes, there are too many tragic stories of people like you who are damaged permanently in all kinds of ways by these horrific, evil, toxic drugs.
    No matter the “outcome” if we were in any “forced” or “coerced” to take these “drugs” and then get involved in the associated “therapy and other stuff” we are damaged irrevocably. That “forcing” comes when you go to the “therapist” to “work out something important to you” and he or she says you need a “med review” or “med evaluation.” At the very least, we feel duped or betrayed or guilty that we did not see the pain that would come. What happened to you is real. What happened to me and other people is real. What most of us are “arguing” against is the added use of further derogatory labeling that sees us as useless, defective human beings who no matter what can never contribute to the good of the world. We may hurt; we may know somethings come harder than should be; we may wish we had a past or maybe we feel blessed we don’t. But, to give us more “labels” to stop us from being who we are; after what we have gone through is wrong. These drugs are evil. The psychiatrists are drug pushers, just as sure as the kid down the street and what’s worse everyone thinks it is okay because he is some sort of respectable doctor. But, after all this horror inflicted on us; we do have every right to live as we choose without someone else telling us the falsehood of who they “think” we are. In the end, to “heal” we must realize we are out own authority on our own selves.

  • oldhead, As far as what you say that TD is permanent. Could it be possible that it may not be? I say this, because, when I was taking the “drugs” they also diagnosed me with TD. Now, that I am off the “drugs” it is GONE! Could it be that it is possible that just getting off the “drugs” reverses the damage of TD, at least for some? I would hesitate to suggest a “study” as there is much too much likelihood of abuse and falsehoods on many levels.
    Monica; I subscribe to your “blog” and find your story very enlightening and helpful; although at times I may chosen a different path than you; but it is so very important that we find something that works! Like other words, emanating from this article, “recovery” is actually a very contentious word. First, like other “word” and “label” thrown against us it can and is being abused. Second, I question, what are we recovering from; we were never sick in the first place. I think of it this way we have “damaged”; but, we are not “damaged goods.” We have been “victimized” but we are not “victims.” In a way, we are like a beautiful piece of clothing or a beautiful quilt; torn somewhat, maybe a little stained; but each one of us must find our way to sew ourselves back into one piece or get that stain out. None of this is impossible. I think of a prayer from the Navaho Nation about “walking in beauty.” I do not know it perfectly, so, I shall not quote it. But, it reminds me that we were beautiful before this; although we had forgotten it and now as the “drugs” leave our body and mind; we are re-reminded to “walk in beauty” This is NOT recovery; this is the life we deserve to live just because we live!

  • Dr Breggin,
    You have written an interesting article; however, I feel something might have been left out. The words, “irreversible brain damage” is contentious for many. If you see my earlier post, you will note that upon stopping the toxic drugs, I began to feel my brain returned to “normal” which would be considered “MY NORMAL” not exactly anyone else’s. I am really not sure if that can truly be measured. Quality of life is really immeasurable.
    However, I do have a question that boggles my mind. How truly related “chemically” are these various drugs? “Anti-psychotic” drugs seemed to also be known as “major tranquilizers.” I, myself, am highly allergic to “alcohol” and to “coffee.” However, I have no trouble with the caffeine in tea or cola drinks. I am also very sensitive to stimulants. Is there any relationship or is Big Pharma hiding something? Now after about twenty years on the toxic psych drugs, I can take no ingestible drugs. Even rubbing something in my mouth on a toothache can make me sick. Even Tylenol makes me sick. However, I would be interested to know if there is any chemical relationship between these drugs and alcohol and coffee. Thank you very much.

  • Alex, I think both Dr. Breggin and you are right. For some, there is irreversible brain damage of varying degrees from what I can tell from anecdotal evidence on the “internet” and other places. But, like you, Alex, I seem mostly alright, although I was on those horrible, toxic drugs for about twenty years or more. I believe that if I had not got off the drugs, I might have experience serious brain damage. When I was on the drugs, I lost much to most of what my considered my “gifts” and those “gifts” that remained were not as well-developed as they could be. Also, I was not trusted by my family to be considered “next of kin” or in charge of anyone’s affairs due to sickness or death. Since, I stopped the drugs, even my mother admits my mental reactions and such are more clear, trustworthy, and more like old times. She still doesn’t understand me and I, guess, I will never completely understand her. Sounds pretty “normal” to me; HUH?

  • Nomadic, You make some excellent points about families. I think it must be remembered the family we so cherish today and in some cases, base “family values” is a recent “institution.” I know we colloquially like to call it the “nuclear family.” The government statisticians determine as a mother, a father, and two children. We did not have families such as these until after WWII and the nuclear bombing we did to Japan; hence, the “nuclear.” But this really is not “normal’ (I honestly dislike the word, “normal” but I am at a loss for the correct word.) Before WWII, the “extended family” was the “norm” with grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, all living nearby. Other cultures, like the Native American, still respect this type of family and much of the “child rearing” is not only done by the parents, but other family members. This is helpful as the child receives many different perspectives from those who have his or her best interests at heart. Nowadays, many children of the “millennial” generation are being raised by the grandparents, but most of the time, the parents and grandparents are estranged from each other. Drugs, both legal and illegal are part of the problem. They have brought to the forefront the “opiod” problem, but we wait for the full extent of the truth to be brought to the public considering the toxic psych drug problem. MIA is a very good start and our stories, also.

  • This is to Harper West with all the initials by her name. I have no initials at the end of my name and I feel just fine. How about you? Sometimes, it is when the system is “blown-up” things really do change for the better. Perhaps, the best example is in Religious History. All you need do is remember we are celebrating the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther’s Posting of his Ninety-Five Thesis on the church doors at the Wittenberg Church in Germany. He basically blew up the system, so now, in Western Christianity, we have the Protestant Churches and the Catholic churches. This also in turn affected for better or worse, the settling of the Americas by the Europeans. And, again I go to Germany much more recently. This is the late 1980’s; when the young and older people caused Germany to no longer be an Eastern Communist and a Western Capitalist System; but a unified Germany, well suited to the modern age. And then in our own country, think of how a group of Baby Boomer young people, college students, high school students and a little older “rocked” the system with their protests and caused the end of the Vietnam War. Oh yes, there is the Civil Rights Movement, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, the AIDS Movement, Gay Rights, Women’s Liberation, etc. All of these movements had their good and not so good points, but all “blew up the system” in some way and caused change. So, I say yes, Let us “blow up the system!” It works! And, it is way overdue, don’t you think?

  • aria, humanbeing—yes, for now MIA is our room. But, I would be honored to be in a “real room” somewhere and discuss what happened to us and how we were able despite all the odds, overcome the horror we had to go through. We are wiser now and we know now that we really are worthwhile people, who have something to contribute to this Earth, and above all else deserve to live and not be “thrown away into that metaphorical trash can.” Thank you for sharing your stories. Please do not stop! This is way too important. I shall not stop, either.

  • Stephen gilbert I know that you were responding to aria and are glad that she made it through all her difficulties. So I am; very much so.
    However, the tragic part is there are way too many “arias” out there who have been forced/coerced to suffer for absolutely no reason; except that these “doctors” are so full of thinking they are “god” or they are the closest thing to “god” they forgot the Hippocratic oath; “Do No Harm.” I do not consider myself, but, we do have certain “ethics” put in place throughout all human societies that are helpful, protective, etc. Like others of these “precepts” in our societies, the “doctors” have totally forgotten this.

  • amnesia: I am so very sorry about your friend. All of these toxic drugs will kill you unless you say no to them and stop taking them. These are toxins, just as much as we read about in the media, that pollute our water so we can not drink it or pollute the earth under our homes so we have to move. Why can’t they see that? Like the old saying, “it is as plain as the nose on my face.” These people lost their noses, it seems.
    aria: I think I would end up like you thought you might end up in a nursing home or dead. I know so many that have; been in a nursing home on the way to a premature death. The sad thing is they don’t know why. They are told all the lies and they believe them. So many generations lost to this evil science.
    And to anyone who thinks it is just being sedentary and drinking soft drinks with high fructose corn syrup is the cause for the increase in “obesity” (another made up disorder) Please think about this: In addition to these toxic drugs that cause unneeded and abnormal weight gain. ( I say abnormal because due to the toxins in the “drugs” the weight gain can be substantial in a short amount of time and very difficult to lose) How many people all across this country are subject to polluted water; polluted water that is filled with toxic substances like lead and other substances that we don’t even know. This causes the water to at the least be unbearable to drink, to being deadly to drink or even take a shower in. If, other than the toxic drugs anything is causing “problems of behavior or thinking” look to these toxins, also. They are everywhere and like the toxic drugs, the people are being lied to and many think all this “horror” is the result of some falsehood called “mental illness.” A falsehood to make an easy scapegoat, so the truth is never revealed, and the true accountability and responsibility never happens. But, like the sun that rises to bring light to the truth each day, we shall rise and bring back our true selves and our beloved Earth and all that lives here. So, it is written.

  • I hear you say “callous” is an understatement. I remember when I first complained that I was “losing my short-term memory” and complained to my “therapist” that I could not remember the questions I received in job interviews. This bothered me greatly as my memory had always been superior. She laughed it off and said “take a notepad” to the interview. I thought to myself that the person who interviewed me would already think I was deficient and not qualified for the job. Additionally, I would feel very embarrassed and shamed. I guess I should have paid attention to that. Eventually, I left this therapist and moved to another town. My mistake was that feeling stressed and dealing with a horrible job mismatch and my sister “dying” from cancer, I found my way back to this “abuse” in the false belief I was getting help. I got dropped from another psychiatrist while being on “drugs” and “allegedly needing to be monitored” because she was afraid she would not get paid for her “services.” I then stayed away from these alleged “helpers” although I was still on the “drugs” getting them through my PCP. Then, my sister sadly passed away and vocational rehab “kindly” thought I needed help and a diagnosis. I, went back, knowing no better and not quite thinking right in my grief. I guess grief is now a “mental illness diagnosis.” (that way, they do catch everybody, since you hardly get out of life without losing someone or even a “pet.”) My mistake, of which I have gravely paid. But, in my sister’s legacy, along with reclaiming and restoration of my gifts and my real self, I speak as the Lighthouse on the shore and at times I hope that I am the light that helps others not get lost and almost drowned at sea like I did or even prevent their drowning.

  • trm123 and JanCarol;
    All you said is on the money and I know there is way more physical symptoms and challenges that are caused by all these toxic “drugs” and last into the withdrawal and detox. To say they are not “addictive” and only those who are “allegedly sick” will use them is a BIG LIE. Because, 99% of us were not or never “sick” and got forced to use them; maybe a full 100% plus.
    But, you add into it the “therapy sessions” and the adjunct “crap therapy” like Psychosocial rehab, vocational rehab, group therapy, sheltered workshops, supportive employment, day hospitals, “inmate” hospitals, and etc. etc. etc. and your self-esteem, self-image, your thoughts and abilities to achieve, your motivation and goals, your dreams (day and night disappear) and you become not only a shell of a person; but a zombie; you are the real “walking dead.” And they ask you, “why are you not happy” and this is a really good one, “I hope you feel better.”
    Now, I learned to “feel better” is not only say no to their toxic drugs, but all of their “crap” which seeks to diminish and destroy, rather than uplift and elevate. All are guilty of violating the Hippocratic oath, “do no harm.” I am not angry. I am just eternally grateful to God for “waking me up just in time” before I was lost forever. And I thank Him for every morning I awake and every breath I take. You do not have to subscribe to any specific religion. You just have to embrace your true humanness which is completely denied by the present Mental Illness conglomerate.

  • royalperidot, Thank you for your kind words that you are moved by posts. I also appreciate your shout out to oldhead, Frank Blackenship, humanbeing and others. I am very sure they appreciate your vote of confidence.
    It seems one of my posts yesterday is “under moderation” and I have not received any “post” notifications since about 735pm yesterday. I do notice the posts are beginning to slow down. Whatever “side” we have taken, perhaps we are “all spent out” asleep or just busy. I would like to think I do not take sides; except that I am on the side of what good not only for me, but, all humans and all other creatures and such on live on this planet. To me, a long, happy, fulfilling, and “healthy” life means you MUST say no to drugs, especially psych drugs, but, maybe other so-called “medical” drugs, too, if possible. When I reviewed my life in the best way I could, I noticed that most of could be termed “questionable or possibly abnormal” behavior occurred while taking “drugs” and I would say “prescription drugs” primarily. Not even OTC drugs like “Tylenol” caused me so much trouble (which I did take a lot) for headaches I had when younger. However, at present, I can not even take so much as a “Tylenol” without experiencing serious effects. But, when I look back those “headaches” came from my being a “fish out of water” or a “bull in the china shop.” Somehow, I was not where I was supposed to be. It is said, “Bloom where you are planted.” I say you better make the place you are planted is where you are supposed to be. Most Cacti die in rainforests. Most tropical wildflowers will die in a dry desert. Dear People, Please find where you are meant to be and do what you are meant to do, and be who you are and not anyone else and you will not feel the addicting desire for any drugs and basically almost all drugs are “1-800-bad-drug.”

  • I am very allergic to penicillin, any and all alleged psychiatric drugs, almost any and all other drugs, alcohol, coffee, sunshine (not the Light), and heat/hot weather.
    I live by my wits, intuition, instinct, the Love of God/Jesus/Christ/Buddha, etc. Consciousness, Nature, Art, etc. and not and never again by illusory outside authority who knows and cares nothing about me; very especially psychiatry, modern medicine etc. You must understand much of the modern medical doctors are in “cahoots” with the psychiatrists and their sycophants.
    Also, I am dancing to the revolution in utter joy; as I know this is the real revolution the world has been awaiting. We also need to remind ourselves to laugh to our success and be totally creative, artistic, poetic, etc. This is truly because the “pro-psychiatry” definitely lacks all those things; which is why they will not win. We will. We do as they say have history on our side.

  • aurora Your world is cold and callous. Is that why you feel the need for drugs? Actually my heart does go out to your suffering.
    In truth, probably the majority of people who end up in the “mental health/illness places” do so because they are doing “drudge work”, are going against their natural talents, gifts, and strengths and probably performing duties and such that are not their strengths, but their “weakness” So, of course they get “moody” anxious, sad, frustrated, angry, etc. Therefore, they are not able to live out their life purpose and their is that “nagging feeling” they are not living as they are supposed. They are unhappy and don’t know why.
    it is a struggle in this culture to learn the truth about yourself, that you are worthwhile, gifted with special talents, personality, individuality and uniqueness; but it is worth it to truly invest in yourself and not be a cog in a machine. Someday, I hope you realize these truths about yourself before it is too late.

  • To Shaun f; As far as thinking unicorns as real. Did you ever think they might have been at one time, but are now very extinct. This could be possible, as they did seem to have survived into our collective and personal unconscious for many centuries and do show up in our mythology, literature, art and even as toys for children.
    To aurora: Yes, I admit I am appalled that “animals’ would be given these types of “drugs”; as they are perhaps the most vulnerable of us all. And, I know from being around these “four-legged kin” all my life, they will tell you what they need and want, if you just listen. They just don’t seem to articulate in English or some other language as humans do.

  • human being- GO FOR IT! stand up for yourself! We do not have to be abused and tortured anymore for someone’s else’s benefit that “could be evil” in its motivation.
    Also, I have found that society no longer respects and appreciates pure old-fashioned, righteous anger, especially if you’re female. They think you have a “disorder” and must be “drugged.” They act as if they are afraid of you and you have no right; but, it is really themselves they are fearful of and their right to their own feelings and emotions. You see, they are afraid of their own feelings because they are not logical, scientific, mathematical, or graphically designed; not artistically designed. This is because pure art is pure emotion. Science is art. These people, therefore are afraid of their very own science.
    Oh, by the way, shook I have thought this through and shaun f what is absurd is the reality of the truth. Absurdity is the way of God. Oh, how unfortunate of me, I mentioned God. I meant to mention your mother. Not even my mother would claim creation of me; only that she birthed me. How sad of me again! That I believe in the truth of God, not the falseness of modern science that has lost its way and that I know God protects me, even from people like you. It though is incredibly clumsy of me in that I almost meant to mention how close to God you really could be. Peace be with you. Vaya con Dios, I say, that is “go with God.

  • shook you are just rude “put a little thought into this.” I have thought about this and I have read books on this. Please read a new book on how to be a nurse. I am sorry but it seems you forgot that nurses are supposed to compassionate and tolerant. And the Books that tell me this Are not just “Christian” books. And my heart and brain tell me this, too. I am created by God in His image Uniquely with Unique Gifts, etc. For his Purposes and His will. There are millions and millions of people who know this with variations to culture, creed, etc. No one says you have to accept to Jesus Christ as your Savior. And I honestly don’t care how you think were created. If you want to believe all you are is bunch of genes cells, that is your business,. but it behooves you to treat me and the others with the courtesy and respect we deserve as fellow human beings. And that goes for you, also, shaun f and princess aurora. Thank you.

  • Shook, No Genes did not make us. God, the Creator made us in His image and in with great uniqueness for His Purposes which unless we forget agree to even before conception and birth. Sorry, Shook, yes we have “genes” but they are not who and what created us.
    Shaun f- To say one of my comments is “absurd” just shows if you really are a counselor working with people, you surely do not show it on this site. All I said is that CBT can be as dangerous as drugs, but it can not be measured. Think, Shaun f, think. If you are a counselor, is it not what people say to each other that seems to cause the most pain and that can not be measured or have you found a way?

  • Yes, we all free will. Yes, we all have a right to our own opinion. Yes, this is a free country. And I am the first to admit that I basically do as I choose and make my own decisions. However, and this is the “caveat” I although I make my own decisions, I must also realize the decisions I make and even the opinions I have do affect others and do affect future generations, even though I have no children.
    This is where it gets very important when considering any drugs and especially these drugs that we discussing. These drugs affect your brain and affect your frontal cortex. The frontal cortex is the seat of the mature decision making abilities. If your front cortex “goes” you basically return to helplessness. This is the effect of these drugs and this is why I consider the drugs, not the people evil. When I took these drugs, I was no longer trusted with even making almost any “adult” decisions. I could not write a check, drive a car, etc. It did not start out this way. The effect is cumulative. If Shaun f you have been working about ten years you may not see it as yet. And, you never ever know when this will effect you. There are specific timelines. It could happen tomorrow or who knows when. And then one day you can’t wake up. No one can wake you up. No loud noises. Not even when they call your name. and you sleep for days, nearly comatose or in a coma. Finally you wake up. Deep down you do want to live, but you have an uphill battle to undergo. And they put you in the hospital. This is dangerous. If as Aurora says, we are all a bunch of “neurons and cells” then why even risk taking something that could affect them negatively. The brain is deceptive. I think of that famous ad where the man scrambled the eggs and said “this is your brain on drugs.” If I did an ad against these drugs, I would have to bust the pan into a million pieces that hurt and add them to the scrambled eggs. I am sorry folks, disagree agree with me until the creek rises and it will rise. But, take these drugs and your brain gets scrambled and hurts in a million pieces. Is that really the way you want to live your life? Is this the price you want to pay? Each day I take a breath, I am so thankful, because I know I Live and have been spared for many reasons some unknown to me as yet, but one small reason is to act like the lighthouse in the storm. The storm brews and if you don’t heed the light in the lighthouse, you may be lost at sea forever. . .

  • Actually, Mr. Blankenship; that was just a typo. I did mean anti-psychiatry. I honestly don’t like to be “anti” anything as it is known that that which you are “anti” seems to find you in some way and it is part of my life purpose to stay as far away from psychiatry as I possibly can.
    Psychiatry is not and possibly might never have been a science or even a medical specialty. It is really “smoke and mirrors” It is “stage magic” attempting to be a religion and trying hard to bypass our inherent religious freedoms as guaranteed by the Constitution to be a “state religion.”
    The big difference in “stage magic” and psychiatry is that psychiatry kills. I am upset with anything that takes a life for no reason. No, I am not anti-psychiatry; I am just very determined to live.
    And as far as being angry or feeling wronged. No, I was not wronged. That is what happens to you when you go to the store and find out your catalog order that had you had sent to the store to avoid the shipping charge was given to another customer. No, I admit my complicity and that fact that I relegated my own personal authority to those I should not have. The upshot is I now rely on myself as my own authority; not on those who only think they know me. I am smarter, wiser, and the quality of my life has very much improved and is improving daily. And the areas of my life that are an “issue” I figure them out on my own through prayer, meditation, instinct, intuition and whatever works that is “ethical.” The difference in my new way and the psychiatrists. Unlike the psychiatrists who don’t follow the Hippocratic oath; which is “Harm none.” Amongst the many precepts I attempt to live by, I do my best to “harm none” especially me. Love begins at home.

  • All those letters, shaun f mentioned as “therapy” They are alphabet soup, but alphabet soup is better for you. It has a certain wholesomeness and attention to your well-being that can never be found in the coldness of a clinical office, no matter how personally and lavishly decorated. I tried CBT. What I can say? On the one hand, it does possess the danger that the “drugs” but with a different and unique set of side effects and long term effects, probably much less obtainable and measured. However, what I gained from CBT was this. I had been “used” but this time and for the final time; it was my “present” psychiatrist. So, the gift of CBT of giving me the truth.
    I do think for many people “animals” are great as friends and companions and can be helpful in lieu of what think is therapy. “Animals” listen without judgement, criticism, or unwanted advice, pressure, etc. And they would prefer you stay off the “drugs.” Trees and flowers and other plants are also great by this. In fact, all of Nature can return a person to their natural state of wholesome well-being. John Muir, President Theodore Roosevelt and the originators of our National Park System saw that. This was probably the best idea of any government and has been copied worldwide.
    Finally, let us not forget. Yes, these are “drugs”, not “medications. And, I have a question? For those of you who advocate the usage of these “drugs?” Would you advocate the use of marijuana, LSD, heroin meth and all the others? And there are very dangerous others killing people right and left. These operate on the brain and mind and some of these can make you feel better, change your outlook, calm you? No, probably not and you would rationalize (a good psychological defense mechanism) that no there is no relationship, at all. These are so different. These drugs we give help people, while those drugs hurt people.
    I have been wondering on this one. There was a study showing that “benzos” and “SSRIs” do lead to an increased probability for alzheimers. My mother’s generation were probably the first to use Valium and her little friends. Today, every time I turn around; she tells me so and so went to school with “has lost her mind.” Question?
    Finally, I would like to say I am not anti-psychiatry. There is no ant-psychiatry and pro-psychiatry. I am pro Earth, pro Humanity and pro all creatures great and small.

  • shaun f whether people benefit or not from modern treatment is no longer the issue. As for me, I almost died from modern treatment. The arrogance and hubris you are seeing from “anti-psychiatry advocates” is only that which is reflecting from you. From what I can tell, it is not pro or anti psychiatry, it is those who have been hurt by psychiatry and those who seem to say they have not. All these people who have been hurt are doing is telling their stories. That is all. It is telling our stories that we can heal ourselves and that we can communicate. It is telling our stories that we reflect the light that is our humanity to the world. How can that be arrogance and hubris? You are rather picking on Oldhead and me. Perhaps, it is because we say things that make you do something you might be afraid of; think and question?
    Princess Aurora; I respectfully differ with you. I am not just a “mass of cells” with “neurons speaking to each other.” I am soul, a spirit, a human being, a child of God, who just happens to have a body that I have been given to take care of and to use to give the gifts God gave me back to the world.
    Perhaps, this is where psychiatry and maybe much of modern medicine is failing or fails. They only see a brain or a body with “symptoms” that need to be stopped, maintained or cured. They only see a mechanistic, biological view of the human being, but each human being has and is both soul and spirit. And at present and there will be a drug to heal the soul and spirit, If the soul and spirit are not healed, the body will die. Drugs, if they work, will only work for a short while because of this very reason. These drugs even at the beginning of their existence were never meant to be taken for a long term basis, but that is what happened. The pain of the body while taking these drugs and in the withdrawal and detox is only reflecting that the soul and spirit have been completely lost and forgotten. I can hear your objections. “Oh, but, in my counseling sessions, we talk.” and “Oh, I ride horses. . .” Yes, that is true for both of you and the very few others. But, yet , if that were the case, why are the drugs being taken by your clients? Drugs will never heal the spirit/soul and that is what is hurting for many people. Also, oldhead is no extremist. It is impossible to be an extremist when speaking raw truth or was Jesus Christ an extremist, also. He, too questioned the “system.”

  • First to shaun f. I never considered or called myself a victim. It would be very wrong and unethical to put words in my mouth that do not belong there. I do not think I am a victim, so why do you?
    As to having sat in waiting rooms of “mental health clinics” in the last ten or so years; that I have done. It is a sad wasteland where once productive individuals now so heavily drugged can hardly stay awake to hear their name called for their appointment. You can also see how out of tune they now feel with their bodies as they have gained weight while on these drugs. If they talk, it is because they are worried their medical providers will complain to them about the weight they have gained. This is true also in day hospitals, psychosocial rehab places, anywhere, people undergoing these “treatments” must gather. Finally, I agree with oldhead, what is normal life is now considered a symptom. Probably, you do not realize that “normal” people actually do have delusions, hallucinations and think of suicide at times in their lives. In fact, it probably is a “normal” reaction to the strange, unavoidable events of life that can not really be understood. I know already that you will come out with some “clip” remark that shows disagreement. But, who cares. Just to reiterate about being a victim, I know myself better than anyone and I am no victim. I am just me who has had some life experiences that I would like to sound the caution warning on so others do not have to live through it as I did.

  • Princess Aurora, You patronize my family and my father, Vietnam War Veteran and Army Chaplain. I have read your posts, Shaun F’s posts, and Shook’s post and I am going to speak my peace. After this, I will metaphorically kiss your other cheek.
    Over and over, the three have not only been repetitious, but self-righteous, mean-spirited and close-minded. You have shown sarcasm and have acted as if your way is the only way and those of us who have been through “hell” because of these drugs do not and can not know what we are talking about. You refuse to consider that maybe the construct of mental illness is a falsehood and you may have been tragically duped. I do believe each person must make his or her own personal decisions and follow his or her own path in life without interference. Your very words show me that you are clearly not comfortable in the decisions you have made. And Shaun F. you made have visited the Southern United States, but have you ever lived here. My people settled here almost ten generations ago. I have lived out of the South. I lived, went to high school, college and worked in the Southwest. It seems that every word, many of us write, the three of you have to come in and put “garbage” in the game about it. Good for you, the drugs worked. After twenty or more years on them, I almost died. Good for you Shaun F and Shook, I am so very happy that you are helping your patients, but, some of us have suffered at hands of allegedly well-meaning therapists. Please think about this little word thing tonight before you sleep; if you disassemble the word, “therapist” you get the two words, “the rapist.” Just a little word play in the English Language word game. Also, please don’t patronize me with “you’re angry, you have every right to be angry.” No, I am not angry. I am standing up for myself, my family, and the South. I realize many in your profession would consider that “anger” But, standing up for one self is nothing but pure redemption.

  • I appreciate and honor what you say, Shook, but, I disagree in that it is not all we got. We do not have to resign ourselves to this present day treatment, drugs, therapy, etc.
    What I am going to say almost seems way too almost out of line and almost ironic, considering that we are talking about our very mind and what we do to it. But, that is what we have to defend ourselves against this psychiatry, etc. and we have ourselves, that inner being or core that we can rely on anytime. Most of us have allowed our mind and our being to be “hijacked.” This is not easy, but, we must take control of our minds and our being. If we do not, someone else will take control. This happened to me and to others. I know many will disagree, but, I sincerely believe no matter who you are, you have that power to say NO to the thoughts, NO to the horrible emotions, NO to whatever hurts. And, there are hours and days, that it will ne harder than usual. We have to realize that we must be able to stand being uncomfortable for awhile. I know for a fact; it is very difficult. If you have a religious or spiritual belief that can help. If you consider yourself, “atheistic” or “agnostic” you can do it, too. You will as the saying goes, take one step forward and anywhere from two to ten steps backward. And, there might be many days all you want to do is cry or just give it all up. But, all these emotions despite psychiatry’s claim are normal. And I am not perfect. I have not achieved this perfectly and most likely I never will. But, the truth is we must do our very best to control our minds, our beings or the government or psychiatry or who knows what will control us. To those of you, who disagree that is quite fine, but please think before posting your disagreement. Thank you.

  • Please, you, who are “sarcastic” Please stop. I think it is my American right to consider the word “subset” in relationship to the human community as highly objectionable. It all breaks down to reductionist science, social Darwinism (as mentioned earlier) and the fact that humans are considered human beings, but human doings and therefore machines and their brains, computers. Thus, it is easy to drug a computer; just like we take our computers in for repair to eliminate all “viruses.” I am sorry, but I am not a machine or a computer. I am SOUL who happens to be living in a body of whom I am trying to take the best care of it; body, mind, soul, and spirit; the very best I can for the moment. And yes, that list, shook listed has been attributed to those taking psych drugs and also that those taking psych drugs do die twenty-five years earlier than the general population. Please see Mr. Robert Whitaker’s extensive work on these matters.
    It should be noted the human body and mind are complex and also very malleable. It is extremely easy to convince yourself or be convinced that the “pill” you take for whatever reason will cure you or make you feel better. However, time could probably catch up with you and that “pill” like what you once thought was a good friend could turn on you. It is a chance you take.
    After having read these posts, all I see is people digging deeper and deeper into what they think is correct and not really being respectful or mindful of the “other side.” This seems especially true for those who are advocating the “pills for personality” approach. We should realize that in many cases especially involving medical and psychiatric “sciences” we do not know fully the consequences and ramifications of what choices we have made. Yes, it is a personal decision to decide to take a pill, a medication, a drug for any reason; but, we also must remember that we do not only affects us, but, others on this planet and as the Native Americans reminds “seven generations” into the future (at least.) Also, there really are cases where people have been cured of cancer and other terrible diseases from things other than chemotherapy and other drugs. And, that man or woman, you see talking to him or herself on the street corner may and probably is not “mentally ill.” at all The person in question might be creating a poem, a musical composition, a great breakthrough scientific formula, talking to God, or just sorting things out in his or her mind. We jump to conclusions to quickly. For instance, my late sister worked in a bank. The wealthiest contributors in the area acted and looked like they had no money and had not taken a bath in a week or more; but they not only had money, they were kind and compassionate. We all jump to conclusions to quickly. I am guilty, also. Perhaps, there is something “good” to be said for both sides. I mean to steal no one’s thunder. However, as for me and my both short term and long term health, I choose to say no to these and all drugs if humanely possible. I especially no to the psych drugs, because like alcohol they are poison to me. Please respect my right to take care of my self and be me and only me. As e.e. cummings, said it is the greatest and most courageous battle and to me the absolutely most important.

  • Shook
    “a subset of Mentally ill who do well with this procedure.” How absolutely so callous?
    I think you have explained all this treatment of people who just need a little more help with life than others or perhaps just need a friend in a “nutshell.” As long as you look at people or even animals as “subsets” of anything, you will not see real human beings with dreams, hopes, desires, and a life purpose to live out. I am appalled that you would even used the word, “subset” in relationship to any human being. If you lose the humanity of the person, you lose the desire to love, care, and have compassion. And over and over it is this lack of compassion that is fueling the “pills for personality” movement rather than spending time with someone and actually compassionately helping them with what is bothering them. Also that list you have is a direct “playlist” of the results the person must deal with when put on these “drugs.”

  • deeeo42 I follow along the same lines as you. I was on most of the same drugs as you and more you did not list at various times. I was more suicidal and more likely to harm myself under the use of the drugs. Before the drugs and usually, except for a several years in college, where I went to the student counseling center and met with graduate students receiving degrees in “counseling and guidance” not clinical psychology or social work, I was not in any therapy and was able to reason myself out of these thoughts. Then the drugs came and I could no longer think, write checks, and eventually do all the normal adult things like drive. Finally, my mind/body just shut down and I could not wake up; which was the beginning of my real wake up, as I continually went through lie after lie about my condition. At that time, they took me off all the drugs but lithium. I was suffering, but, according to the doctors nothing was really wrong with me, except was already diagnosed by them. The last drug I took was in the Spring of 2015; when I realized that stopping these drugs was like stopping alcohol. I knew instinctively that something was really wrong with me; as I felt “clean inside again.” just like after I stopped the alcohol. I told the psychiatrist how I felt and I wanted no more drugs. She preceded to write me a prescription for Risperidal, because “she was ‘afraid” I would ‘relapse.'” I took one or two pills and threw them up. That was it. It is January 2017. Well, I’ll be!—no Relapse. Sometimes, I do have my bad days and my tired days. I probably take more naps than I did years before the drugs and I have to pace myself. But, my mind is crystal clear and I can reason myself into a positive mood. I still have my challenges like trying to keep a “clean house.” And I lost anywhere from ten to twenty years of my life. But, most importantly I am alive and joyful and at peace. I relearn and rediscover myself daily. As opposed to being on the drugs, I am no longer a zombie and would rather live than die! Thanks to no longer being on the drugs, when an issue or problem comes up I can use my imagination, my intuition, or my reason and see a real live solution to any problem. If it works for Aurora, all well and good, but, for those of who almost died and lost part of our lives, our voices are very valid and we need to be heard also. Most magazines only tell stories like Auroras. To the Auroras of the world, I wish them luck, health, and happiness. However, those of us who suffered need to tell our stories, also. Otherwise, how else can anyone make a conscious, informed decision. Also, our suffering needs to be validated and “recorded.” All I know is that now I want to live. On the drugs, I did not; because I was not living any way. I was just barely surviving as a “walking corpse.”

  • I do not know about Carrie Fisher and her allegedly risky behaviors. I do know she has now passed away and at the very young age (by 21st century standards) of sixty years and additionally, we have lost her mother, the great talent of Debbie Reynolds. I can say that like John Donne any time a person “dies” each one of us is diminished. What I do know is me and I believe there are probably others out there like me. I was put on these “drugs” and Sort of forced into “therapy” mostly and only because I was really “looking for my real place in this world.” Every time, I went to Vocational Rehabilitation for help, I ended up in the mental illness center. The second time was due to the loss of my sister, of whom I guess, it’s now an abnormal behavior to grieve. I will admit my faults, though. Like others, I, too, looked up to psychiatry and psychology for the answers. After all, I had a Bachelors Degree in Psychology. I know that many suffer and many believe these drugs help them alleviate their suffering and improve their lives. I thought that, also. I am not here to tell anyone what to do or how to live their life. That is a decision that must be left up to each person. However, I will tell what I have learned. I looked to psychiatry and psychology for the answers, but the answers were never to be found in these “fields”. These answers could only be found in my heart, spirit, and soul. However, each person is here to find their own way and if there is any real “sin”, the “sin” would be to interfere.
    And, to Shaun f. Yes, I totally distrust statistics; because like so many “alleged tangibles” in life they can be manipulated to fit any conclusion desired. Only that which is truly “intangible” can not be manipulated. And my Father, who was brilliant enough to be a “Mensa” member and had two graduate degrees, one in Sociology, always told me that there were three kinds of lies; “Lies, ‘damn’ Lies, and Statistics.” My father is gone now, due to an illness resulting from Agent Orange, as he was A Vietnam Veteran. And, with that, I honor my father’s legacy. Thank you.

  • Yes, we do see the world differently. I would say to those who feel they are benefitting from the psych drugs to read everything they can about the drugs, to monitor the dosages, and to watch for adverse side effects, etc. I would also tell them that they are taking a risk and hope and pray they do not end up like I did; so asleep I could not be awaken and was almost taken for dead. I did end in the hospital. It was the beginning of a two or more years wake up call. I would also hope and pray that they do not end up like Patty Duke or Carrie Fisher. Finally, I would tell them it is their choice to take the drugs or not take the drugs and they have every right to say no and to be respected for it and have their wishes respected. If not, it is time for them to just leave. Each person really needs to make sure their diagnosis does fit them. Many are diagnosed that have no mental illness at all. If any of your clients do become aware of this or other websites or of Robert Whitaker’s great, life-saving work in this area, it would behoove you to listen and allow them to make their own choices. If they choose to stop taking the drugs, please find them the help they need, not ply them with further drugs that are alleged to help, but only hurt. Please be always usage of these drugs is as dangerous or more dangerous than most of the illegal drugs and alcohol. I do hope someday you awaken to this like so many of us on this site has and I also hope you learn to grant others their right to speak, even if you disagree which means admitting they may be right and their experiences count for something, most probably more than statistics. Except, for that one brief period with the SSRIS, you are only receiving second hand information from your clients.