Showing 2525 of 2525 comments.
You’re a good man, Kermit. Thank you for caring so deeply. God bless you. – Duane
Thank you for all you’ve done and continue to do–for so many.
A message to all MIA participants–researchers, writers, readers: May you all have a peaceful and joyful New Year. Happy 2016!
Any discussion of eugenics needs to include the work of Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood… Ernst Rudin would be proud:
Why the sudden concern with what happens to a “fetus”–when you’ve insisted they are not babies–that they are expendibe before birth–even after viability in the womb?
Inconsistent… Don’t you think?
Ironically, England had a leader who protected the British people from NAZI Germany–One who experienced times of deep depression–followed by periods of enormous energy…
Had he lived in today’s period of disgnosis–Prime Minister Winston Churchill would have likely been put on drugs, and would not have been able to fiercely defend his country.
What an article–one of the best ever published on MIA! Thank you!
This was a very insightful post. Thank you.
Love is the greatest healer. More practice (but no more research) is needed.
It’s said that “truth is stranger than fiction.” It gets hard to tell the difference in these times of ours.
To clarify: It would be much nicer to see a sane, insightful approach work in putting a end to this injustice, but we unfortunately live in a society …
Although, I should say, the Heritage Foundation is on the wrong side of this… Your point about a talk show host–namely, the sensationalism, raw emotion, populist-type approach is *unfortunately* a tactic that might work.
You may be right.
I’ve met some good liberals along the way. On many occasions, I’ve found myself debating,,,only to come to the conclusion that we seemingly want the same things–but have different views on how to get there…
I do think that a society that does not reach out to those who are truly disabled, deeply suffering is not worth living in–but again, there are different political views on what best supports; best encourages; offers the most hope; helps people the most–long term…
IMO. the “endangered species” are people like Michael Cornwall. If more people cared for one-another to his level, we would find ourselves in a much kinder and more loving place to live.
I think people of all political stripes can find common ground here–because this gets to the heart of basic human rights, specific civil rights–including the right to say: “no”.
I momentarily forgot what year we’re in–2015 or 1984?
Thank you for the post. We must all remain forever vigilant!
Follow the crony calitalism trail. The problem is not the free market, but a market of corporate greed joined with an insatiable need for power and illegitimate (unconstitutional) authority (i.e., Murphy, et al).
True conservatives are equally outraged. The problem is there aren’t many of us left.
A great first post. Welcome to MIA!
A natropathic doctor, with lived experience… How cool is that!
Thank you for reaching out to help others; and thank you for your military service!
Duane Sherry, M.S, Retired Counselor
Discover and Recover: Resources for Mental & Overall Wellness
I apologize for leaving so many back-to-back comments, but need to clarify. I’m not saying that I believe “mental illness” may be caused by *irreversable( chemical imbalances.
It seems to me that *if* such a thing exists, it could also likely be reversed, because healing takes place, at many levels, in many ways… and it would seem only logical that if stress or trauma can induce dis-ease, the reverse could also take place, on an emotional; spiritual level.
There is research that seems to indicate that some ulcers may not have stress as their root cause; other research that seems to indicate that some types of ulcers may be caused by stress, or worsened by stress… and around and around we go…
IMHO, human clinical trials are complex; those that involve studying emotions, (maybe) impossible. What is “stress,” after all? Where does the mind end, and the body begin? The brain and other body parts? There’s complex connection; along with all the variables that involve being human…
Let me get this straight… Prolonged stress can cause an ulcer, but leaves the brain in tact… Really?! Seems like a stretch… Just sayin’.
Neurotransmission in the brain can simply not be adequately measured. Therefore the “chemical imbalance” theory cannot be proven. But it cannot be dis-proven either. Period.
If I had a dime for every time an MIA author, commenter dismissed the “chemical imbalance” as bogus, while insisting there “is no chemical imbalance” I would be a rich man!
I think that there likely may be some kind of “imbalance” – because of the fact that stress, trauma, poor diet, and many other things seem to cause “imbalance” in other body parts; why not the brain? I don’t claim to know, but it’s hard to trust those who claim to know: “There is no such thing as a chemical imbalance in the brain…” Really? Says who?
Your biography says you’re a high school basketball coach. I did some coaching myself along the way. Coaching is good stuff – keeps a person centered, grounded.
Thanks for the comment. It would be interesting to see more studies, using *small amounts of orotate form*. It seems to show benefit with Alzheimers Disease, along with other conditions.
Small amounts seems to be the key, but it’s hard to know who would want to fund a lot of studies… Not a lot of money in it.
A different take on Lithium:
And our complex interpersonal relationships… Science? Really? C’mon!
Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as “scientific proof” –
With that said, I’m remain unconvinced that study of human behavior is “science” to begin with… IMHO, there are far too many variables; we humans, with our complex and “unpredictable” thoughts, feelings… Right when you least expect it, someone commits a random act of kindness. Go figure.
For anyone interested, PubMed / Dietary Supplement Subset.
Use keywords of choice in search – ie, “depression, vitamin D, etc:
Good point. Drug reps are a problem, but at least a good doctor who cares about their patients can put a sign in the door: No drug reps. Actually, many are beginning to say no. Not so much with legislation … There’s a reason they’re called laws. We all have to pay for them. Which means vast amounts are prescribed, especially in Medicaid and in foster care.
I’m all for bipartisan efforts, and I apologize for losing my cool on this site recently. It’s difficult to read the far- right comments, which I have to admit I take personally, as a conservative with a heart; libertarian with a conscience. It looks to me that many on the far- left would prefer to take in this fight alone, without a politically collaborative effort… Which continues to seem odd, coming from a group that calls for a “collective” effort, and “diversity.”
There is a time and place for everything, including a time to fight.
Freedom is not free. It never has been, and never will be.
Witness ISIS… Do you suggest the world sit quietly by?…
The drug reps, in their suits, or high heels and low-cut tops; the recent college grads with their marketing degrees visiting docs pose no immediate threat… The legislators who pass bills that force all of us to pay for these drugs – especially psychotropics children in Medicaid and foster care programs; they are the real threat.
Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, not money. Drug companies may be corrupt, but cannot force people to buy drugs, pay for drugs or take drugs… Only government has this illegitimate authority.
Opposite Days are declared by the far left… Every day one is declared. You may want to check the far left calendar, every day for the latest announcement.
You made several great comments (above).
Glad you’re here!
We will never know how many WMD were likely moved across the border into Syria before the invasion…
But we do know some were there… How do we know? Because they were found! –
Contrary to the popular belief of many on the far left, this country is slow to go to war. The U.S. was even hesitant to get involved in both WWI and WWII. The invasion of Iraq was no exeption… Again, there was a healthy and heated debate, which ended in a consensus to invade.
I don’t appreciate revisionist history… I prefer to look at the facts of the past. In the case of Iraq, there were many on both sides of the political aisle who made the decision to invade.
I think it’s fair to say that the testimony from General Colin Powell to the U.N. Security Council was the persuading argument that led many to their decision. Some were convinced of WMD before his U.N. testimony, based on intelligence they had received before:
“Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. A deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
— Sen. John F. Kerry, Oct. 9, 2002
“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.” — Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
“The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists.”
— President Bill Clinton, 1998
“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program… ” — Sen. Hillary Clinton, Oct 10, 2002
And what about Colin Powell’s testimony?..
It turns out he was correct. Weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq, as reported by the New York Times last summer:
As far as Iraqi civilian casualties, I think that all life is sacred. Unfortunately, war is horrible but sometimes necessary, and sadly it often results in the death of innocent people. Which is why I think our country is slow to go to war.
Also, I would remind you that these drugs have the blessing on the FDA; psychotropics, the blessing of the NIMH… And the strategy would be to give the federal government more power? Really?
Senator Grassley’s exposure of taxpayer-funded corruption at universities should be a red flag to all of us. Sure, there is corruption with drug makers, but it’s the cozy relationship between private companies and public officials that is the real problem. It’s called ‘crony capitalism’ Richard.
To clarify – this is in reference to the notion that a handful of men in Anerica were somehow able to start a war (ignoring the bipartisan Congrssional decision that took place after long, heated debate); your disparaging remark about America exceptionalism (discounting the Constitution and freedoms this country has)… but mostly, my comment is made after reading your bashing if this country for *years* on this site…. There appears to be no end to the level of hate…
Read 40 years of article from the ‘Archived’ section of the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine at no cost:
You might be surprised to learn just how much research there is on the benefits of nutrients in both the prevention/treatment of disease. The Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine is a good place to start. As far as herbs, the American Botanical Council has a link to the Commission E Monographs (from Germany, which leads in the study of herbs).
Not to worry, power hungry politicians; do-gooders are anxious to make them for all of us, as we move into the nanny-state of cradle to grave big government. Just take you pills, the maternal nanny state will take care of you… At least until she runs out of other people’s money.
A free society cannot be a drug-addicted society… People lose freedom when they cannot support themselves financially, nor make decisions soberly.
I can see how having more folks on drugs would be a plus for the government; zombies are easy to manipulate. But corporations? Why the pre-hire and mandatory drug tests in so many industries? Employers don’t need more zombies. They have choices in who they hire… Why should they hire someone who is addicted to street drugs?
I fail to see the logic.
If America is as horrible as you continuously describe, why do so many people literally risk their lives to get here illegally? And why do so many go through the lengthy and exhausting process to become citizens?
Interesting that you mention Dr. Peter Breggin – someone who has disdain for conventional psychiatry, yet who loves this country… Two traits I share (although, I’m no Breggin).
I truly don’t understand why anyone who hates this country would choose to live here. Are there not dozens of other countries to choose from?…
This may be a bit overstated; however, when you consider the fact that drugs are often nothing more than slight alterations of naturally-occurring nutrients, and/or herbs, with a patent (and fallout from the slight alterations)…. It is food for thought:
“For every drug that benefits a patient, there is a natural substance that can achieve the same effect.” – Carl Pfeiffer, MD
Works like a charm.
Re: “… We are all traumatized… ”
Sounds a lot like “30% of people have a mental illness.”
Which is why I have so little confidence in either psychiatry or psychology.
How did people historically overcome trauma before the professionals? Maybe we ought to look closely at those tools.
Typo – … require the stopping of bashing…
In Dallas, the Salesmanship Club offers this. It is entirely funded by proceeds from the Byron Nelson Golf tournament… A bunch of those rich guys… Go figure. And I know that many people would help fund similar programs around the country, if insurance “parity” and tax money didn’t create the false image that this was already being addressed. It would of course the shopping of bashing “the rich.” A favorite passtime on MIA.
I’m not saying that making a profit is bad; rather that it’s interesting that those who are opposed to profits are silent when it comes to psychotherapy.
Nor am I heartless. What about more private non-profits? Keeping records private, keeping labels off; using sliding scales; pro-bono for those who simply cannot afford counseling/therapy?
I’m not so sure parity is a great idea; nor that taxpayers need to bear more burden.
Also, I find it interesting that there never seems to be concern about the costs of sessions when it comes to psychotherapy, which can easily range from $100 – $200 or more each session.
MIA is packed with anti-capitalists when it comes to drug companies; the economy in general, but never a peep about this. I can only assume that these (hardly cheap) sessions need to be paid for with tax money, or insurance companies – in other words, someone else, or all of us (both, actually).
I have no problem with free markets, but many others on this site do. Where is the outrage with the “profiteers” in psychotherapy?
No medical equipment, no large medical staff, no large overhead; a person can put up a shingle and bill a couple of hundred bucks an hour, without a peep from the collectivists… Interesting.
You write: “In one generation the APA, in collusion with the drug companies, have destroyed psychiatry.”
From the history you described of psychiatry before the collusion with drug companies, there was not much there to destroy.
It seems obvious that psychiatry destroyed itself long before this relationship.
The glory days of psychiatry… What glory days?
You may want to study what led to the Magna Carta; this libertarian thought led to the Declaration and Constitution in America.
I’m sorry too. As a dad, as someone who struggled for many years, as did our family, I do truly care for children. And as someone who worked with disabled adults for many years, I am not suggesting the safety net be tagged out from them.
My comments were strong, because I have deep concerns also for what I see happening economically, for individuals and families.
We may have to respectfully agree to disagree. With that said, I could have been more respectful.
And I’ve read yours as well, with the holier than thou slant, as if you are alone with concern for homeless children.
Your attitude is in keeping with the far left, broken programs that create more long- term suffering… None of that matters when you’ve convinced yourself that you care more than those who disagree with your politics.
No more on this. I don’t need this crap.
I hope this isn’t off-topic, but found a good article on the connection between gut flora and mental health:
I hope we can begin to look at these areas, as alternatives to psychotropics.
I don’t know a single person who feels “comfortable” with where things are right now. Not one.
My family and close friends, people at work, others who I talk with during the day… we are all concerned – with what’s happening here in the U.S., and around the world. We’re plenty concerned, about a lot of issues.
Could it be possible that the ones you dismiss as ‘right wingers’ (such as myself) want to see the same improvements in the lives of those we love – close to home and around the world, but just have different views on how we get there?
The quotation marks were not used in a disparaging way – quite the opposite… Income level has nothing to do with dignity; I have been through financial times that were horrible – with mouths to feed, and no how groceries, rent, utilities were going to get paid – more than once, more than a short period of time.
I’ve said more than once on this site that I support a safety net for people who are disabled.
The point I’m trying to make is that a large, centralized, bureaucratic system is not the way to go for long-term… It creates dependency; it creates poverty – by dis-empowering.
Communism resulted in 100 million deaths, and we keep deluding ourselves that some kind of hybrid form can get the job done. It can’t.
And I think it’s hilarious that people who want to spend, spend, spend and spend some more (as in government spending) consider themselves to have the moral high ground.
How generous is it to demand the government seize more money…. with unsustainable spending? Especially, other people’s money?
How ‘compassionate’ is it to saddle future generations with debt that is becoming insurmountable?… Putting them into a position of being indentured servants, slaves of sorts.
And how brilliant is it to keep coming up with the same simple plan – more taxing, more spending for the ‘poor’? What about something new, for once?! Not the same old drug!
We spend a trillion dollars per year in the U.S. on these programs, and the poverty rate is the same as it was 50 years ago…. Up the dose? Really?
The debt clock… Our grandkids, and their grandkids will have to pay this debt off:
The reason Greece is bankrupt is that it tried to spent itself into bankruptcy.
Where do European (democratic socialist countries) get the idea that they can spend themselves into prosperity?
This is very much like psychiatry… If things aren’t working; if there’s fallout, if the drugs cause more harm than good, up the dose.
In democratic socialists countries – it’s up the spending…
Spend like theirs no tomorrow, in spite of the fact that future generations will be forced to pay off the debt… It’s insane.
Nanny state, where adults are all treated like children, and taken care of from cradle to grave?
Maybe using them frequently gives the therapist and client more to talk about… Feeling emotionally numb, yet agitated; becoming fat and asexual, just for starters. It’s a good way to turn short-term counseling into long- term therapy, especially when a person tries to get off the drugs, leading to a flood of potentially life-threatening emotions.
Again, I friggin give up!
I’m with you , Saul.
In fact, I’ll take it a step further…
My comment is simple: I give up.
Typo – let he without sin (imperfection) cast the first stone.
Thank you for this creative piece of writing.
It’ hard not to consider the spiritual dilemma of those doing the judging… Acting as little ‘gods’… I’m reminded of ancient scriptures that address this head-on:
“Judge ye not… Let he who throws the first stone… ”
These say more about the one who judges others, than those being judged. Unfortunately however, we all do it to some extent, even if we judge those who judge others.
Re: “On demand, without apology”… Some science for you:
Interesting that you insist the doctor use the term ‘fetus’ – from Latin – offspring.
I’ve made my religious beliefs known on this site; and although I don’t expect that everyone on this site shares those beliefs, I do think people who are pro-life, such as myself, not be dismissed as not appreciative of science.
Egg and sperm, two gametes form a zygote – with a combination of DNA from each… A unique DNA. So it seems to be hard to argue that this is part of a woman’s body.
With that said, the zygote, later embryo, then fetus is not viable until the third trimester (shortly before)… Then things change scientifically – the baby’s chances of living outside the mother’s womb begin to go up… quickly, with each passing week.
Row v Wade does not say a woman has the right to an abortion during this period – for a reason:
You make some good points. I don’t have all the answers, and I certainly didn’t mean to imply for a moment that the troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan don’t need supports to help them overcome what they went through. I think we owe it to them to provide whatever they need!
Again, I was thinking outloud about the subject of overcoming traua, and curiously wondering about WWII veterans. I’m all for whatever works for someone, including not talking if a person so chooses. I know that these young people who served in the Middle East have served far too many tours. They deserve to be welcomed home and shown some love and support!
There are often real diseases, or other health conditions present:
Want to replace psychiatry with psychology (therapy/counseling)…
With full trust in psychology? Be careful what you ask for!
I guess you’re right, if you consider a closed head injury, contracting lyme disease, or developing a thyroid disorder an “adverse life event.” Because these conditions often cause “emotional” suffering. Please read my comment (below) about psychology.
Please excuse the redundancy, but for all those folks out there who want to replace psychiatry with psychology… Rep. Murphy is a psychologist.
From the link above:
“Murphy is a psychologist who has often criticized SAMHSA as ineffective, saying it is only focusing on “soft” outcomes and general wellness for the masses rather than practical help for those with serious mental illness. “It’s as if SAMHSA doesn’t believe serious mental illness exists,” Murphy said at a hearing in 2013.”
This was another nicely written, thought-provoking article. I agree with much of what you had to say, but not everything. I often wonder how people overcame traumas before the days of therapists… individuals have forever had to survive trauma; and have historically learned to overcome it; from even the deepest emotional wounds.
What about the “Greatest Generation?”… The vast majority of them went off to war as very young men, and returned to re-integrate; build lives, families.. without therapists. I wonder if wounds are meant to be re-opened, examined, analyzed. Maybe healing takes place by not re-opening wounds; by developing a place back into a community, culture by finding natural ways to do so.
Correction – MT (not MH)
I’m also concerned about what’s being allowed to take place with the chemicals in food. This is an area where some government oversight is needed, but none can be found, because the politicians have been corrupted. IMO, it’s a ‘crony’ capitalist system at play, because the ‘partnership’ between private corporations and businesses is corrupt.
I’m also concerned about the debt crisis in Europe and here in the U.S. It seems as though the size of the federal government programs have gotten so big, they are unsustainable. Here in the US, we are 18 trillion in debt. That’s real money. And it will need to be paid by future generations, placing them in a form of economic slavery… owing their souls to the government store, so-to-speak.
It looks like government debt in Europe is in enormous crisis also. So what happens next? I don’t know, but I do have some faith in what young people are beginning to envision.
Here in the US, there seems to be a new hippy emerging… They are not their father’s hippy… They’re free thinkers of a new variety. Libertarian thought is getting big in their circles. They don’t want the federal government to fix everything… They want it out of their lives, and they really mean it when they say it. They’re big into organic food, living a healthy lifestyle… I see a trend here, and I’m hopeful.
You apparently find great joy repeating what you read/hear from the far left media.
The exhausting 1% speech… You put it out there as if it should be “news.” Do you really think that I’ve never listened to mainstream media and commentary – CNN, Rachel Maddow?
Like so many others on the far left, you blame everything on the one percent… Everything. The far left claims to want to create a society of ‘social justice’, ‘income equality’… Mmmm, where have we heard this before in history? How was it tried, and what were the results?
It’s like being back in grade school. The comments from the far left about economics, politics, history… With absolutely no knowledge about wealth creation, how economies grow; no knowledge of political systems and how they work; no knowledge of major historical events, western civilization, the people and ideas that formed this country.
I used to find myself outraged; now I expect it, especially from people who are obviously ideologues, pretending to be idealists.
You wrote, “It’s not the size of government that matters…”
Making my point, much better than I could have, once again.
I hope you know by now that I love much of what you write on MIA… I grew up on Austin, Texas and met many a great hippy… That was then, this is now. The world has changed, so has America. For the better in some ways, for the worse in others.
We all watched the Soviet experiment. It was an absolute failure. IMO, the answer is not a larger, more powerful, centralized federal government, but a smaller one. I’m all for organic herb gardens, and people living however they choose, but I’m against being told what to eat and how to live by s bunch of little bureacrats!
Breggin is a conservative. Szasz was a libertarian. These two have done more for this cause than the entire far left wing combined!
This cause is about freedom, not creating a nanny state.
The USSR was obviously a union of republic; China a single republic. Nation is probably an unfit title for either when citizens have no voice, and group-think is all that is allowed. The people (were, in the case of the USSR), and are, in the case of China simply not free.
And you tell the readers to ignore my views? Your comments speak for themselves!
In a word, I find the ‘priceless’.
China and the USSR isolated? Ever seen the land mass of these nations; their populations?
This failed political experiment did not take place on a couple of remote islands.
Typo – Janis
Transforming the mental health system as we know it… by upholding the constitution – ending the use of force… allowing people to choose safer, more effective means to address acute emotional crisis, and/or any underlying physical health condition(s).
As far as all this “progressive” thought… I find it to be about as progressive as the Bolshevik Revolution, a century ago!
But. in my opinion, MIA is not the place to talk about all this stuff… unless of course, IMO, people start using the Forums. They don’t and they won’t. So it appears that we’re taking the world’s largest website – the only place where people can get information about the dangers of psychiatry, and turning it into a political forum for the far left. I’m not a genius, but aren’t there a ton of such places on the web? I mean a ton of them! Oh, well.
Tomorrow is June 6th, the 71st anniversary of Operation Overlord: The Normandy Invasions, D-Day.
What a war the US and allied forces had to fight! When we finally defeated Nazi Germany in Europe, an equally evil enemy had to be defeated…. namely, the USSR.
And now we want to create a ‘collective’ system ourselves.
Why? I guess because it worked so well in the USSR; China, Cuba…
As the 1960’s song goes: “When will we ever learn?”
Re: The love affair some seem to have with the 1960s…
This just in: The ‘Summer of Love’ is over. Jimi Hendrix and Janice Joplin have left the stage. There was some good music; there was some real progress in the area of civil rights; but I lived through that time, and much of what happen was change for the worse.
There’s a lot more to say…
Just not on MIA.
Your blog post was on the subject of shock protests in 9 countries!
Even though ‘Dr. Anonymous’ tried to hijack the subject, he was unsuccessful… The larger issue is that progress is being made… In large part due to people like you!
Thank you, sir.
And with that, I’m done.
I find your remarks to be condescending toward Ted.
And I’m not going to waste my time explaining why. It’s your job to deal with the way you treat other people, not mine.
From Peter Breggin, MD:
:ECT (electroconvulsive therapy) involves the application of two electrodes to the head to pass electricity through the brain with the goal of causing an intense seizure or convulsion. The process always damages the brain, resulting each time in a temporary coma and often a flatlining of the brain waves, which is a sign of impending brain death. After one, two or three ECTs, the trauma causes typical symptoms of severe head trauma or injury including headache, nausea, memory loss, disorientation, confusion, impaired judgment, loss of personality, and emotional instability. These harmful effects worsen and some become permanent as routine treatment progresses.”
You may find more about Ted, Tina, Jim and other blog authors of this site (several of whom are psych survivors) here:
Re your comment:
“Speaking authoritatively about psychiatry but refusing to have an open dialogue with a psychiatrist seriously undermines your credibility.”
This is Ted’s biography (as posted on this site):
When I was six years old, New York City’s child “welfare” system took me from my foster parents and sent me to one of Bellevue Hospital’s psychiatric wards. There, as part of an experimental group of (eventually) several hundred children, almost all of them wards of the state, I was given a course of twenty shock treatments by one of the leading child psychiatrists of her day. (The profession hasn’t changed much since then, except it has even more power.) I was then shipped to a state hospital, where I spent the rest of my childhood.
Released at age seventeen, I went on to work my way through college, graduating with honors. Later, I served two stints in psychology graduate programs, but fortunately, it didn’t take. Eventually, I became a patients’ rights attorney, and am still an active member of the California State Bar.
I found out about what we then called the mental patients’ liberation movement in 1971, and have been active ever since in several cities in the U.S. and Canada. I am most proud of the campaign I led in my new home town, Berkeley, that persuaded our voters to ban shock treatment here.
I am 75, not young any more, but my life isn’t over yet, and I have rededicated myself to doing all I can so that what was done to me won’t happen to others.
My comment to you:
If you’re having problems finding a little empathy, at least have a little respect, doc.
And please, leave the lectures on what the law says/doesn’t say about ECT to Ted Chabasinski, JD (along with Tina Minkowitz, JD and Jim Gottsein, JD). They are all psychiatric survivors, and attorneys. You are not.
Re: “In many cases ECT is the only treatment that will take effect quickly enough.”
This comment you made… you start off sounding like a lawyer and close by sounding like a doctor. For what it’s worth, I don’t trust many in either profession.
Take a look at the link above, you’ll find out more about ECT than you probably care to know. Legal “experts” and medical “experts”… all these so-called experts; yet look at the mess we’re in!
Spend some time on the link above, about Planned Parenthood. It ought to be a must-read for anyone who wants to learn more about PP.
Unfortunately, more Americans get their scientific information from Wikipedia than from any other source.
Re: Final decision being the woman’s… She obviously have to find another doctor… something most women are quite capable of doing.
Interesting. once again, that the politically correct answers seem to show such little faith in the individual (male or female).
Your telling her you will not prescribe them is not the same as “telling her what to do!”
It’s explaining what it is * you* are not willing to do.
Nothing more, or less.
It would seem to me that a good doctor would take the time to explain why he/she has reached that decision; in this case, educating the patient.
And then the final decision is the woman’s.
The more I read from doctors, the less I understand their logic.
I thought they received medical licenses to assure the safety of their patients.
I don’t get it.
Re: “But, while I strongly believe that the drugs cause harm, I don’t believe that a pregnant woman should be told that she should take a medication or that she should not take a medication. That is an individual choice and one that should be respected.”
Of course it’s a individual choice on the part of the pregnant woman. But, it is also an individual choice on the part of the doctor. In short, you could explain that in your professional opinion, the drugs are too dangerous for her and the baby… and that you will not prescribe them.
What this approach lacks in political correctness, it makes up for in upholding the Hippocratic oath.
Ever seen a sonogram of a “fetus?” Ever met a woman who suffered enormously, for years after an abortion? Because there are some realities there that cannot be ignored. Interesting that Planned Parenthood has its roots in eugenics… Not sensationalism, just facts:
The Supreme Court has left it up to the states to put some restrictions on abortion – ie, viability, late-term, etc…. Should a woman have the right to terminate a pregnancy after the baby is viable… or worst case. the day before it would otherwise be born? If so, Just how humane is that?
It seems to me the term “fetus” is reductionist. What about a “being” – maybe not fully human as far as you’re concerned… but, certainly in the process of becoming more fully human… Are we not all in that process? I do not judge someone who has had an abortion… In fact, I’ve known women who have had them. I would ask you to try to understand that being pro-life is not restricted to men… Many women are for the pro-life cause, after having experienced the trauma and grief associated with having undergone one.
Also, the term “right wing” conjures up images of those who back the status quo of a political tyrrant or system of oppression. Many of us who are deemed to be “right wing” in this country are actually “conservatives” – not interested in protecting tyranny, but quite the opposite; in favor of individual freedom, protecting constitutional rights.
I find some on the far left to be quite fascinating – demanding a cradle to grave nanny state. “Pro-choice” when it comes to abortion… school choice; the right to work, without joining a union, not so much. Inconsistent, to say the least.
re: Not science:
It’s true for pharmaceutical companies, whose drugs alter human behavior; and academics who study human behavior, or clinicians who provide counseling/therapy to help change human behavior. It’s not science!
The “Algorithm Superhighway” has freeways in each of the 50 states; wrecks on every stretch along the way; carnage on every frontage road, underpass, and bridge.
This is a term that has no place in the social “sciences.”
The study of human behavior is based on neither science nor mathematical algorithms.
This is true for psychologists and social workers as well, who may have learned the skills of listening, the art of developing a therapeutic relationship…
This just in: It’s not science!
These people are like ants at a picnic.
Correction: I did not take it to mean that these things were primary, with loving relationships being secondary.
The blog authors concluded their piece with this statement:
“So we wonder; are psychiatrists truly ready to choose as their primary treatment the use of nutrients and other lifestyle interventions that cause no harm and often result in benefit?”
I took this to be a *challenge* to psychiatrists, to begin to use *nutrients* and *other lifestyle changes* as primary means of *medical* treatment. I did not take it to mean that these things were in any way *secondary* to love, which is the greatest healer, as I think most adults who have been around the block a few times have come to understand.
I’m all for the study of nutrition, as one of many ways people can heal, become “weller than well” and thrive. I don’t understand some of the controversy over this. This blog is coming from the vantage point of two researchers who have seen amazing results with nutrients, who are sharing their findings – not only with clinical research, but the changing attitudes out there, even among some psychiatrists. This is good news. Sure, love is the greatest healer. I’m grateful for the love these two seem to have with their work, and the impact that work is having to improves lives!
Large amts of people, from several groups, such as psych survivors, veterans, parents of young children, alternative medicine practitioners, family members of nursing home residents, counselors, therapists, religious organizations, non-profits…. Large numbers are seen as votes (kept or potentially lost).
Oh wow, misspelled grammar
Please excuse the typos and grammer… Using a mobile device.
As always, I appreciate your kind words and encouragement.
I have been doing my best to gather support for this got a number of years through Safe Harbor, MindFreedom, MIA and many other groups to no avail.
Should there come a time when there is a real interest, as well as a commitment, I can be contacted through LinkedIn.
I was a rehabilitation counselor for quite some time, but have since retired, because I could no longer stomach the targeting of people with severe disabilities being targeted by psychiatry.
Again, I appreciate the kindness you so often express on MIA.
Why do we continue to fight this from a defensive position?
Why don’t we think more pro-actively…
In short, instead of fighting their bill on their turf, why not draft our own?
And go through the process of getting it sponsored, lobbied, introduced… Until it becomes law –
In short, instead of fighting their bill on their turf, why not draft our own?
And go through the process of getting it sponsored, lobbied, introduced…
Until it becomes law –
To clarify – other things, besides psychiatr.
Nutrition works. So do many other things that are much safer and far more effective.
Only Lieberman continues to *spin* straw into gold.
Psychiatry is dead. Sadly, the spin continues. What a scam!
For the countless lives that will be forever changed; and the many that will be literally saved –
Is there a treatment for the agitation and rage that comes from reading about this stuff?
For any MIA readers who are not aware of the documentaries of Daniel Mackler, go to YouTube, type in Daniel Mackler in the searc bar. Watch and listen.
Amazing work, Daniel!
IMO, these videos have likely given more hope to more people than you probably ever imagined.
And like the other readers, I enjoy your writing.
I wonder sometimes about all of mental health services: If the drug causes more harm than good, up the dose. If a small group of professional cause more injury than healing, find more professionals. If the suicide prevention programs cause more death, expand them.
This is the power of bureaucracy at its best. I’m curious about how many federal agencies it takes to fix the plumbing or provide clean drinking water on a reservation? A half dozen? Because it takes a half dozen to manage the land.
If throwing money at thise who live in this broken system breaks the spirit, throw more money at it, and at them.
It takes a free person to overcome helplessness, and caring people who are aware they are equals to provide support and love. Not more professionals, more bureaucracy; not the oppression that comes from all this *help*.
Real love, real hope – starting with *stopping* the things that don’t work; beginning to do things that do work.
I agree. In fact, I don’t think anyone’s “knowlege” can ever surpass their own personal experience when it comes to building good relationships or overcoming past hurts or traumas; or how someone who does not practice forgiveness in their own personal life can counsel others on the subject.
Unfortunately, there are addiction therapist on their 5th cup of coffee, and 2nd pack of cigarettes: family therapists on their 2nd marriage and 1st custody battle.
I’ll take a good close friend over a licensed therapist almost every time.
Healing happens on many dimensions. IMO, psychology often misses this reality. Like psychiatrists, there are many therapists who are narrow in their vision; many who work in tandem with shrinks; many who use their position to work out their own unresolved issues; many who are intoxicated with a false sense of power… So it comes as no surprise that the there is a longing for illegitimate authority in the field.
I don’t mean to be redundant… Have said this for years:
For all of those who would like to see psychiatry replaced with psychology, be careful what you ask for.
Both groups have power. Psychiatry is built on illegitimate authority, and as it dies, it will need to be replaced. There are legitimate psychotherapists, but even among those that don’t use labels or force – there are very few good ones.
I agree with what you wrote.
IMO, it’s about overcoming past traumas, and when these traumas involve abusers, they can only be overcome by releasing the person who did the harm.
This involves moving away from the abuse if they deny the abuse, and are unwilling to own it and stop it.
But this is their issue. IMO, the only way through this is by forgiveness.
IMO, anything short of this leaves the person who was harmed *connected* emotionally to one who harms, without their own recognition. This hardly lends to healing.
It traps a person, when the human spirit needs to be free.
I agree, ‘Love and Logic’is a great program.
To clarify, on the spiritual law part. IMO, the only way a person can live a life of peace is to forgive. To not forgive means to live a life of misery. IMO, this is a spiritual law. On short, like an object hitting the ground (at least on this earth), it happens every time.
IMO, forgiveness is a spiritual law. Much like gravity is a physical law. If you hold something in your hand and release it, the object hits the ground, ever time.
Forgiveness (or lack thereof) is a decision. So is love for that matter. Both may involve feelings, but neither is contingent on feelings alone. In other words, if we wait until we feel like forgiving, it may never happen.
Nobody should feel forced to forgive, but it cannot take place by force anyway. Just as love cannot be forced. I think there is often a confusion about forgiveness versus reconciliation. One can forgive someone and take them to court. Or forgive a friend or relative, and never see them again. The two are very separate issues.
I’m not a perfect parent, but throughout the years, when I’ve made mistakes with my sons, I’ve gone up to them later to explain that their dad didn’t do things perfectly, and said I’m sorry, and asked for their forgiveness. I think this taught them that it was okay to feel hurt, recognize that it was my issue, not theirs, and realize that forgiveness was their choice. I think this may be why they are better men than me; which is what every I think every dad hopes for in his sons.
I underwent enormous growth while I was single, throughout my 20s and early 30s. What I was trying to say was that it all paled in comparison to the growth that comes from being a dad. And although, at the time I would have said the growth that came when I was responsible for myself… In hindsight, it pales in comparison to the responsibilities that come from being a dad.
I’m guessin’ you’re not a dad?
Re: “Too often they have, by becoming parents, stymied the potential of their own internal growth process.”
You’ve got to be kidding me?!
I knew nothing about what it really meant to grow until I became a dad.
Growth was not much more than an academic exercise…
We are a *long* way to having a jury look at the *facts* of this case:
“Any prosecutor interested in the truth and in justice would have used all the tools at her disposal to find them. Ms. Mosby ignored them. She has one of the most experienced homicide prosecutors in the state of Maryland as chief of her homicide unit, but did not ask him to investigate. She had the police report all of one day before filing charges, her mind already made up. And she failed to make use of the grand jury to gather, probe and test the evidence before a group of average citizens.”
“In fact, Ms. Mosby was so hasty it appears she locked up two completely innocent officers. She charged Freddie Gray’s arresting officers with “false imprisonment” because she said the knife that Gray had on him was legal. In fact, as The Sun reported, the Police Task Force found it to be illegal after all. It was Ms. Mosby who had no probable cause to lock the arresting officers up, an injustice she could have easily avoided by taking her time….”
This is really getting to be too much, and I’m worn out. I’ve certainly made more than my share of comments on Sera’s piece. My apologies, if I made too many.
I must have missed the grand jury indictment as well.
Murder, blamed on “mental illness?”
What about *arson* ?
Because there’s a bunch of arson taking place in Baltimore, without much thought about the *death* fires can cause! And the people who are doing the torching don’t seem to give a crap about the firefighters who are risking their lives putting them out, those who might be inside the structures!
Oh, that’s right, no “mental illness” excuse needed… There are other ones at hand that make it okay to torch a church, a senior center!
Please excuse all the grammatical errors and typos.
I’ve said numerous times on this site that I think a safety net is needed to have a civil and compassionate society.
What I’m trying to say is that there must be more creative ways to help temporarily help support people in the middle cities (and other areas as well) in ways that money is not wasted.
The article from Forbes points out that a trillion dollars per year is spent on welfare in the US. Very little of that money is getting to the people who need it. Federal programs are ridden with waste, fraud and abuse. They are also ridden with federal bureaucrats who make much higher earnings than the private sector; complete with opting out of Social Security; pensions than can easily reach a million dollars per employee.
The other problem is that the ‘War on Poverty’ has been a failure, because it created a *system* that encourages the family to dissolve in order to receive benefits. It created a generational condition of young children giving birth to young children.
Building families between a married couple became the task of a single mother. Young males are the ones who are harmed the most by this. Raised without a male role model. Again, this is not the fault of these young men. They are caught in a *system* that is broken.
IMO, welfare programs should be block-granted to the States, where innovative ideas can be put in place. Where there is less bureaucracy. Gaining the education/training needed to compete in the labor market would go a long way to help, as would making welfare benefits temporary, not lifelong.
In psychiatry, NAMI mothers are their sons are victims; they need lifelong support with drugs… They cannot make it without drugs. In the inner city, the federal government sends a similar message.
This is not about telling people to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps.” It’s mot about abolishing any/all support systems (public and private). It’s about admitting we have failed and looking for ways to address these issues. NEW ways!
In the 1960’s the chant was “We shall overcome.” Where is that chant today? The social programs put in place to help have made things worse. In psychiatry, when the drug fails, the dose is raised. We do not need more of the same in the inner city!
Lastly, neither of us have the space to debate economic theories. But I would like to say that a strong economy needs many different kinds of people with many different skills, talents. One of these is wealth creators.
Economies are not pies to be divided. They are pie shops to be created. Economies grow, not only because of production and distribution; but because of risk taking, entrepeneurship, dreams of people who have ideas on how to make a better product, a better service… making the world a better place.
And there needs to be *plenty* of space for people in the inner city to take part in all of this. Unfortunately, the one-size fits all, dehumanizing welfare system is not the place to find these things. Short term relief, sure. A way of life, no.
This will now move from the “court of public opinion” into the justice system, where hopefully, the state prosecutor will be able to present her case on the part of Maryland, and each of the six charged will be given adequate defense.
The state prosecutor has an oath to uphold:
“I do solemnly (swear) (affirm) that I will at all times demean myself fairly and honorably as an attorney and practitioner at law; that I will bear true allegiance to the State of Maryland, and support the laws and Constitution thereof, and that I will bear true allegiance to the United States, and that I will support, protect and defend the Constitution, laws and government thereof as the supreme law of the land; any law, or ordinance of this or any state to the contrary notwithstanding.”
Yes, the facts.
If the state proves its burden, and any/all of the six are found guilty, then they need to go to prison.
at stake (not in stock)
Also, I don’t think the *arson* can be ignored, covered up, made squeaky-clean. There have been 159 buildings torched to date. Each of these structures requires the fire department to respond – to assume there might be people inside these buildings – to risk their lives to put it out.
Interesting, some of the charges against the officers are “negligent manslaughter”…. while the rioters express their pre-trial rage by committing arson…. a felony, a negligent act, an often *deadly* crime.
IMO, there can be no honest dialogue without mention of *arson*! A senior center and church were burned to the ground already… How many more are in stock?
The bail for the 18 year old seems outrageous, but have no idea of all the details… he may have fled bail on past occasions, no idea.
I’m not a lawyer, but a person is innocent until proven guilty. The purpose of bail is not punishment, but to prevent flight before a trial. These police officers are not going to try to flee…. where would they go, where would they hide?
It seems to me, from what I’ve seen read, that there are many things at play here:
1) Some real grief from what took place with this specific incident, which is understandable
2) An angry community, especially enraged, disenfranchised youth
3) Generational poverty
4) A call for justice in this specific case
5) A call for equal treatment, dignity
I get all of that.
But I also have a different view on part of what caused some of this, and about what it will take to make things better. It is a different view than yours and the vast majority of MIA readers. That’s okay.
The *are* riots:
” As fires and anger raged in West Baltimore on Tuesday morning, groups of teens at W. North Ave. and Fulton Ave., where a burned-out car smoldered in the middle of the intersection, hurled bottles into passing firetrucks.”
“The bottles shattered against doors and windshields of the trucks, which sped on to respond to blazes. Some rioters used rooftop perches to rain rocks and bottles down on firefighters, making it that much harder for them to do their jobs, police officers said…. ”
Regarding the attack on firefighters, another comment was left for you in the thread (below).
I spent time reading the links you posted. I hope you will do the same:
Lastly, the “power” in this case was held by six police officers – three black, three white (one female).
The “authority” is held by a black police chief, mayor, state prosecutor, U.S. Atrorney General and president.
This may be about youth who justifiably feel disenfranchised, but it is not about whites having all the power or authority.
Sadly, the trillions of dollars spent on welfare programs have led to a breakdown of the family. To qualify, men started leaving the home. Where are the dads?
Kids need good dads.
You asked what is violence?
Burning a Koran, a bible, or a flag is free speech. Burning a building is violence.
The first is disgusting, but protected. The latter endangers innocent life, and is a felony.
First protectors were injured in all of this – both police officers and firefighters. Cement blocks were thrown, hospitalizing some of these folks.
Our youngest son is beginning to look into joining a local fire department, so this hits close to home.
Richard, if you truly believe a so-called “protester” has a right to torch a structure… I say “your home first.” When it comes to entering the flaming house to make sure nobody is in the structure…. He is the kid who would run to make sure you were out.
No further comment.
I find all of this distressing. My first thought when I heard of the young man who died of a broken spine was overwhelming sadness, followed closely by outrage with the thought that the fatal injury was at the hands of police. These feelings remain.
However, I’m deeply troubled that nothing seems to have been learned by Ferguson, where an innocent police officer protected his own life, and was left to be pick up the piece of his life after being no-billed by a grand jury, and exonerated after a full federal investigation.
This case has all the appearance of negligent manslaughter or possibly homicide, but we don’t know the facts yet.
The young man is dead. It’s tragic. But equally tragic would be to hang the officers out to dry without a fair trial. They deserve their day in court. We don’t know the facts. There may have been one officer of the six who put everything on the line to stop the other five, but was outnumbered. He/she would deserve a voice, whether one of the black officers or one who is white.
There is not a psychiatrist alive who knows any more about so-called “schizophrenia” than the average Joe or Jane on the street.
There are can be many etiological conditions that cause these symptoms, but there is no stand-alone disease present. There never has been.
The day “schizophrenia” dies, so does psychiatry. Which is why it is on artificial life support.
Wait until the facts about ECT come out…
Unfortunately, sometimes a (medical) myth takes hold and hangs around a while. A few thousand years in some cases:
To clarify: I believe in creation, with an appreciation of the intelligent design behind it; so we likely disagree on the subject of Darwinian theory. However, I do appreciate your insights about how individuals “evolve.”
Typo – Dr. Berezin
(My apologies; typing on a mobile device)
You are obviously a highly intelligent person. It shows.
But more than your intellect, I deeply appreciate the *respect* you have for the *uniqueness* of the *individual.*
This kind of appreciation transcends genetics, and moves the discussion about what it means to be fully human into a spiritual dynamic.
In short, I’m grateful for the *many* times you’ve pointed these things out in your blog articles.
You threaten him, and his profession.
He relies on a (false sense) of authority, using propaganda.
You merely present the facts, with sincere humility.
This one is a “no-brainer.”
Once again, you get right to the heart of the matter.
Another great piece.
Re: “… Sometimes you just have to meet people where they’re at… ”
Ain’t that the truth!
Re: “… individual liberty and responsibility constitute the core of a just society.”
AMEN to that!
Your posts were instrumental in my getting this checked out.
THANK YOU !
Thank you for mentioning sleep disorders. MIA has put up many articles on the connection to sleep disorders and “mental illness”; and IMO, this needs to be at the top of the list.
I underwent a sleep study recently, where it was determined that I was having several airway obstructions per hour, and was fitted for a dental device, to keep the airway open.
I have been wearing the device at night for about a month. It has helped greatly with memory, concentration and mood. It has been very helpful, especially with work, where there is often stress, and the need to be at the top of my game.
I think the relevance goes to the heart of not assuming, once again. Something you appreciate.
Thanks for taking time to read with an open mind.
The problem with shrinks is that they have no clue with how to check for underlying physical conditions!
You seem like a good guy, and I appreciate your comments regarding listening, without assuming. Wish there were more like you out there.
What if mental health professional stopped assuming *anything*?
Nothing at all, until spending time… listening.
Shrinks, psychotherapists, everyone involved.
Maybe some folks out there would have a chance to get well and stay well!
In fairness, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy has a 13% success rate for Functional Neurological Disorder (aka, Conversion Disorder). Good news for 13%. Not-so-good news for the remaining 87%.
The *majority* of people diagnosed with FND say they do not experience “conversion – from psychological (trauma) to somatic symptoms.
Maybe, doctors are simply unable, at this point in time, to determine what is taking place with some of these folks… Maybe psychotherapists ought *not* to assume psychological trauma, any more than psychiatrists.
From a recent blog post by Bruce Levine, PhD (MIA Author):
“When Atkins was 21 years old, she developed serious motor skill problems and at times couldn’t walk. Doctors could not figure out what was physically wrong with her, and so they declared that it was “all in her head,” and she was given psychiatric diagnoses such as conversion hysteria. For the next 20 years, her physical symptoms were not taken seriously. Finally, Atkins found a physician who did take her physical symptoms seriously and diagnosed her with a form of Myasthenia Gravis for which she was successfully treated.”
“But Atkins remains afraid that, given the psychiatric labels that remain in her medical records, she is still vulnerable to once again being stigmatized as a “head case.” Such fear makes Atkins appear mentally ill to those authorities who equate a fear of doctors with paranoia.”
“Atkins is not alone. I recently consulted with a woman who, after years of misdiagnosis, figured out on her own that her physical and psychological symptoms were caused by pernicious anemia, a physical condition that can be treated with B12 injections, a simple and relatively inexpensive treatment which continues to be successful for her. But her medical records include diagnoses such as “somatic pain” and “somatoform” (which means that symptoms cannot be traced to any physical cause), as well as multiple other psychiatric diagnoses. These psychiatric diagnoses create a great deal of anxiety and anger for her because for any physical problem she may have, many doctors will not attempt to get to the root physiological cause; instead, based on the psychiatric diagnoses in her medical records (that she has so far been unable to have expunged), her physical complaints are dismissed as psychiatric issues. Her fear and anger seem quite reasonable to other people in her situation, but for doctors and even for some of her family members, she appears paranoid.”
And sometimes very *real* neurological issues are present. Finding suppressed trauma is *not* always the answer. More from Bridget Mildon:
“After trying to uncover hidden or suppressed trauma to no avail and after years of illness, why wouldn’t I question this veneer of authority? Yet, patients like me are routinely told it is they themselves who cannot be trusted. Like me, they are said to be caught up in an illusion of fabricated symptoms crafted from unconscious trauma and their own pretense. They have built their illness out of myths, on a foundation of emotional escape or make believe.”
Re: “Mental illness is an “illness” only in the same way that love-sickness is an illness.”
‘Thyroid and Mood Disorders’… ‘Diabetes and Depression’… ‘Sleep Apnea and Mental Illness”…just for starters.
Talk therapy cures none of these.
I appreciate *some* of what you say, but I caution your profession in its efforts to bite off far more than it can chew. I would say it is wise not to assume anything when working with someone; including ruling out ‘illness’ before somatic symptoms are considered as possibly having ‘real’ meaning – namely, an underlying physical (dare I say) ‘illness’.
This problem does not come solely from psychiatrists and other conventional medical professionals, it comes from psychotherapists and counsellors who share this arrogant, marginalizing and dehumanizing attitude!
Ask a real estate agent about the most important consideration in buying a home: “Location, location, location.”
Ask a psychotherapist about what causes somatic symptoms in someone who’s been diagnosed with a severe mental illness: “Truma, trauma, trauma.”
It’s a given, in their opinion. And it’ arrogant, dismissive, dangerous. And far too often, wrong!
Duane Sherry, MS
To avoid confusion – I’m being sarcastic.
I hope the very best for you in your efforts, Sera.
I wrote to each of the legislators you listed. I hope it helps.
Although, I can appreciate any legislator who wants spend taxpayer money wisely, I have to say that this constant call (enduring mantra) for “evidence-based” treatment is getting kinda old. It’s not as though the conventional method has earned a right to some kind of monopoly.
Programs that involve peer-support; building relationships; re-integration into the community – all these things make sense, and they work. They work because of the way we’re wired-up. We need to feel appreciated; supported; encouraged (labeled and non-labeled). Dare I say, we need to feel ‘loved’?
Do we need more evidence?
Are we supposed to stop using this technique until it’s deemed “evidence-based?”
I hope not.
Recovery centers need to prove their “evidenced-based”; conventional psychiatry, not so much…
I feel like I’m in ‘Alice in Wonderland’.
typo – psychosomatic
Let’s ged rid of psychiatry… Let’s replace it in its entirety with psychotherapy, and psychotherapy alone.
After all, the facts show that severe “mental illness” are based on trauma and emotional distress. CBT and other very popular treatments are “evidence-based” – they’re the new magic cures.
In fact, a good therapist can help you overcome almost any physical condition. Physical conditions in the “mentally ill” are somatic – signs of underlying trauma, always.
Talk, talk, talk… and more talk. That’s what works. Every time. Like magic.
My apologies, but I had to get that off my chest.
Re: “… psychological symptoms were caused by pernicious anemia, a physical condition that can be treated with B12 injections …”
Be careful. The B-12 injections will only work if you see a therapist every week… to talk about how much the injections have turned your life around. LOL !
typo – *look* nice
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I just don’t know anymore…
When you tell people about the dangers of these drugs… many take them anyway; some scream at you (literally).
Maybe the best way to warn people is to forget about describing the gory detail of injury these drugs have on the brain and body…
Replace that warning with this one:
These drugs will likely make you fat and asexual.
This may stop a few folks cold in their tracks:
You will not good nice in a swimsuit, nor will you care.
Those might work? I dunno.
I think its worth noting that Robert Whitaker (science journalist, author of ‘Mad in America’ – for which this site is named) is not “anti-psychiatry.”
In fact, he has interviewed many who say they were helped by psychiatric drugs. In this video, he talks about “selective drug use protocol” – using drugs in small amounts, limited periods of time; along with a sub-group of people who insist they were benefitted by their use indefinitely:
I think we ought to focus our energies on making sure they are prescribed by informed consent, and they are not used by force.
I too have been through quite a bit of trauma in my life.
I appreciate what you had to say about traumatic brain injury (TBI). I’ve read quite a bit about this, and I’m convinced that there are far too many cases where this is not diagnosed – either missed or ignored.
My best to you,
The dialogue is good.
It’s healthy, if any of us are going to grow.
We’ve all been “in the choir” together for so long, it rocks our world a bit when a pro-pharma person chimes in. That’s okay though. It’s a good thing.
Things are not as black and white for yours truly as they were five years ago.
There’s room for a more nuanced view of things in my life now (which has been a *huge* step for me).
I say, bring it on.
IMO, there is a huge difference between someone who is violent, and who has been convicted of rape, murder, armed robbery and someone whose greatest “crime” is emotional distress.
It saddens me that we are somehow in a place where we are in the position to be having this conversation. What happened to the Constitution?
There are criminals who need to be locked up, but I think it’s time we looked at decriminalizing street drugs (not legalizing then, but decriminalizing them). Our prisons are not good places to help people get off of them, so they can be active members of society. We need more places where they can get help. This is a huge problem, and needs to be addressed. Of course, this applies to people on psychiatric drgs as well. We are simply going in the wrong direction.
I wrote: “programs for children”, meant to write “families and children.”
The federal government has programs for children; the states as well. The welfare spending per year by feds/state is approximately a trillion dollars per year. Yet the long-term success these programs is not good.
Since LBJ’s ‘Great Society’, we continue to see poverty, dependence; breakdown of families, especially in minority communities.
I think we need safety nets, both public and private. I also think we need to create incentives to help people wean off these programs, so they can move away from dependence and poverty.
In short, it’s more complex than continuing to call on the federal government to do more. We need to do more – in communities, private non-profit, religious organizations. We need to believe in people. Not scream at them to get a job, but encourage them to begin to believe they can become more independent (actively inter-dependent).
We need to encourage and support strong families – ones with two parents, whenever possible, while providing resources for single parents. But this is not the stuff that the federal government has a strong track record in promoting. The government is large, bureaucratic, removed… and 18 trillion dollars in debt.
We can make a “great society,” by using *many* creative ideas, and implementing them.
We. Not solely the federal government.
“Socially engineering Downs people out of society?”
I cannot imagine such a world.
Regarding the topic of abortion at large, I can only say that my views on the subject are “biased” on my religion, a large part of who I am.
I simply believe that an individual’s worth is not contingent upon anybody’s assessment, but on something much higher. And that worth is beyond imagination.
Typo – journeys
To clarify, I was a rehabilitation counselor for a number of years, where I worked with people with severe and catastrophic disabilities.
The answer to your question is No.
I often stood back, got out of the way, and watched them take fascinating, creative ways to overcome.
I am now retired from the field of social services, left with beautiful memories of the souls along the way…
I was humbled and blessed to share in their journies.
I’ve probably already made my fair share of comments on this thread, and hesitate to leave many more….
However, you asked “you?”
I do not understand your question. I will simply respond that I think CBT can be an effective way for some to heal. One of many ways.
Good relationships are healing; sometimes even those of the professional, therapeutic variety. Always in the first case; occasionally in the latter,
So as not to be understood, the success any relationship is not dependent on science, nor does it need to be scientifically proven to have value.
Please read my response to Steve on the thread.
To be successful, psychotherapy requires finding a therapist with a “personality” that is a good match for the client (along with values, etc), in order to form a “therapeutic relationship”.
Subjective, don’t you think?
Hard science it is not.
I can appreciate what you’re saying, at least on one level – the level of science.
But when we’re talking about human thought, emotion, behavior, we move out of the realm of “hard” science, into the level of healing – body, mind, spirit – connections, at many levels.
I agree, when we’re talking about altering brain chemistry, with some of the most most powerful and dangerous drugs on earth, show me (and everyone else) the science!
… Unfortunately, there is no science. The clinical trials have been manipulated; data tossed, there’s nothing there. The FDA has failed, so have the state medical boards – there’s been no oversight.
The other factor – what are people to do? Wait until more studies have been conducted before trying vitamin B-12 and D-3 for depression? Wait until more data is available before trying neurofeedback for anxiety; or trying hyperbaric oxygen therapy for post-traumatic stress? What if it’s a long wait? Wait anyway, until enough psychiatrists agree that the research is above board… or enough psychotherapists?
Talk therapies, like CBT are supposedly “evidenced-based,”
but I would argue that are *many* other well-documented therapies as well, that do not involve talk.
At the end of the day, when we are talking about thought, emotion, behavior – and all the variables involved in those areas, how much pure science is left? How much was there to begin with? !
X amt of subjects in study one showed significant improvement in mood? That’s science? Define significant improvement, define mood…. hell, define study! What measurements, what controls are used?
Human clinical trials have tons of uncontrolled variables. A study on depression might involve a complex group: a person who lost their job last week; another whose aunt was just diagnosed with cancer; someone else was married two weeks ago; another is in the midst of a custody battle with her husband…. And the objective is to conduct a study on the benefits of a particular therapy for depression. We’re not exactly in the chemistry or biology lab anymore!
To say the least.
Which is why, IMO, people who want to study science and conduct scientific research flock to *hard* sciences: chemistry, biology, physics, astronomy.
Most graduate programs in social work, psychology, counseling may offer coursework in statistics and the scientific process. But the study of human behavior is *not* the study of chemistry, biology, physics. In fact, a professor I had in sociology probably said it best: “Human behavior is unpredictable.” I agree (some 40 years since taking the course).
Let science (real, hard science) be science.
Let healing of body, mind, spirit be much *more*!
I wonder how many “NAMI mommies” would support psychiatric treatment if they were aware of its roots? …
In this video, psychiatrist Peter Breggin discusses the euthanasia that took place in Nazi Germany against the “mentally ill.” These programs served as a training ground for the later mass extermination camps for Jews:
I also wonder how many “pro-choice” people who support Planned Parenthood if they were aware of the history of the organization. I would suspect that not many supporters are knowledgeable of its roots; full of racism and eugenics:
(Chose the Forum section, so as not to derail from the blog author’s article).
Amazing, isn’t it?!
Yet, there are conventional (western) medical proponents who continue to insist that acupuncture is pseudoscience. Follow the money (again)…
I appreciate your comment on connective tissue, but it would be hard to argue that acupuncture doesn’t have ‘energy’ at its roots. Traditional Chinese medicine is involved in addressing imbalances – the flow of ‘qi’ (energy) through channels known as meridians.
Western Medicine, not so much… unless you consider EKG’s, other measurements of the heart. If heart rhythms aren’t ‘energy’, what are they?
We’re afraid of seeing things in ways that are not ‘conventional’… reluctant to think outside the box. Healing has to be ‘scientific’, or it isn’t real…
Even when it works!… Or so many would argue.
The blog author admits to his own bias with CBT.
Randy admits to his own bias when it comes to CBT.
Once is not enough? Expressing it
three times would be
Re: “unmeasurable energy fields”
Toss out traditional Chinese medicine, acupuncture?
Sure, let’s get rid of that new age (ancient) medicine and replace it with more talk therapy… After all, what could be based on more hard science than talk?
Why the rant?
Because I’m tired of professionals bashing forms of healing that work. Many of these professionals know nothing about these forms of “alternative” medicine… This leaves two options: conventional psychiatric treatment and therapy; neither of which have a monopoly on healing. The first, with a history of causing more harm than good for the vast majority; the latter, in the position to cause either , depending on several factors, not the least of which is the ego of the therapist, including his/her attitude about what healing means to the one being counseled…. their pre-conceived views on “alternative” therapies.
Talk therapy won’t help a traumatic brain injury or thyroid condition. “Alternative” medicine will. –
Re: “When I look at the literature on alternative treatments the situation is generally much worse.”
Here we go again…
I would suggest that there are many forms of “alternative” medicine that have some pretty solid research backing:
Toss out the drugs, and go with some “evidence-based” talk therapy.
Always the same thing.
Predictable on this site.
Huperzine A (from Chinese club moss) holds promise for Alzheimer’s:
There is some good research lately to show lithium is good for Alzheimers Disease (along with the herb, Huperzine A). The problem is that doctors are not aware of how taking small amounts of Lithium Orotate can have benefit, without the fallout of large amounts of the prescription version, Lithium Carbonate.
Putting 1,000 – 2,000 milligrams of salt in your body every day is not a brilliant plan.
Drinking deep well mineral water is a way to get trace amounts (along with other minerals). This water has .17 mg of lithium, and is available at health food stores and other retailers:
The key to supplemental lithium is using very small, or even trace amounts in Lithium Orotate form. The recommended daily dose on the side of the bottle is 5 mg per day. Some people find enormous benefit from this.
A naturopath or holistic practitioner may recommend a higher amount – 20-30 mg/day is pretty common, but medical supervision is recommended, especially if higher than 20-30 mg per day.
Duane Sherry, MS
Your website is a must-read for anyone considering seeing a professional. Sami Timimi, MD has a good video as well:
Heroes don’t call attention to their own heroism, because they are blind to it.
I can think of many words to describe Lieberman, et al. Heroes they are not.
Faith creates an appreciation for the gift of life.
Thank you for another inspirational article!
Resources for psychiatric drug withdrawal:
You raise some good metaphorical questions.
IMO, the invasiveness of psychiatric drugs moves beyond the figurative, into the literal.
These drugs invade the brain; alter its natural functioning, interfere with healing, and disrupt homeostasis – the “ecosystem” of of a human being.
When I wrote “… doing the best they can with what they’ve got,” I was referring to the *information* these parents have at hand, not the *kids*. Kids are a gift!
We certainly had an opportunity to hear from both sides on this debate.
I’ve made my position known about psychiatric drugs, particularly when it comes to kids.
But I think it’s helpful to hear from parents who are doing the best they can with what they’ve got.
Once again, I strongly feel it’s a stretch to say that *nothing* is going on with the brain in *all* of these circumstances. I don’t believe in a “chemical cure,” but I think the jury is still out on whether there may be some “imbalances” at play – after all, the body (including the brain) and mind are inter-connected.
Some of these kids may benefit from better nutrition; others from exercise; changes in family dynamic; more structure and discipline; others, creative outlets; neurofeedback, a multitude of options.
I don’t believe in “ADHD” per say, but I do know that “cerebral allergies” – sensitivities to processed foods, nutritional deficiencies, and other very real medical conditions can sometimes be the culprit(s). The other thing that gets under my skin is the disproportionate number of boys who get this diagnosis (not girls). At the risk of being tarred and feathered for being politically incorrect (it’s not the first time for me), I think the public schools are geared toward educating girls.
Boys are not always so good at being little girls. They’re more physical as a group, and often don’t do well all day in a classroom environment; especially, when many schools have very little physical education (often alternated with art and music, every third day, if they’re lucky). This will really get me in trouble (oh well, here goes): We are feminizing a generation of boys. Boys need to be boys.
My two (politically incorrect) cents.
Re: “… She spent about 5 minutes reviewing the procedure and asked me to sign the consent form.”
Therein lies the difference between psychiatry and other forms of conventional medicine. What amazes me are the stories I’ve read about people who were billed for psychiatric treatment they never agreed to !!!
As far as the rising (astronomical cost) of health care in general… this is going to get worse before (if) it gets better. The “Affordable Health Care Act”, aka “Obamacare” is forcing people to buy catastrophic coverage at outrageous rates. Pick from one of 6 or 8 private insurance companies, all of which are being paid off for their cooperation (as are the drug makers) for a “Bronze” plan with a $6,000 deductible, “subsidized” by the feds…. At least until tax time, at which tim H&R Block is seeing approximately 80% of filers will owe money back to the IRS.
And you gotta love how the infrastructure for Obamacare (buildings, computers, additional IRS agents, etc) cost $800 billion (almost a trillion) dollars. Not to worry, it was syphoned from Medicare – elderly and disabled folks, the ones who need it the most. It is a tax, and a scam!
Yeah, if you want to see things really become unaffordable, let the feds get involved. If you don’t like my political views, blast away. I’ll just read. Tired of asking to take political debate to the Forums where they belong, only to be charged with being a “censor.” No further comment.
How could anyone argue with that? Beautifully said.
The “right wing” of a dictatorship is quite different than the right wing of a democracy or constitutional republic. In both cases, the party wants to conserve something it holds valuable.
Tyranny, in the first case. Peace, prosperity, freedom in the latter.
Totalitarianism can come from the “left,” and often does. Stalin, Mao, et al.
We could go on and on, and derail another blog post (once again). But I’ll pass. These debates become like little sound bytes, and are never really debated to the full extent they deserve. And asking others to please take them to the Forum section brings the charge of being a “censor.”
I expressed my point, and I’m out.
This is tragic.
It sounds like you and your family got it right!
This is a link for other readers on how to find an Orthomolecular practitioner;
I get a little bit nervous when I read some of this, and here’s why:
If a physical condition is deemed to be *secondary* to trauma, this conclusion could easily be interpreted as a “psychosomatic” condition – or in laypersons’ terms: “all in your head.”
I think a strong case could be made that many health conditions are “soma-psychotic” – head injuries, toxic exposures, sleep deprivation/disorders, etc. – all of which are real health conditions that affect thought, mood, behavior.
It seems reasonable that the medical profession rule these things out, before the psychotherapists are ruled in.
Please, let’s not create a new paradigm of care that sees these things as *secondary* to emotional trauma. Many people have undergone *real* physical trauma –
No further comment. Not in the mood for a debate (or long argument) on this subject.
Take care of yourself. Let the battle go for now. You’ll know when/if you’re meant to come back.
Thank you for sharing your personal story and your *wealth* of information!
Thank you for putting this together.
A quick question for Lieberman, Frances, et al: “What kind of success rates are you seeing with your conventional approach?”
I enjoyed your article, and appreciate your insights. My previous comments of frustration are directed at our system, and not toward you. Thank you for being part of MIA.
Bill Wison, Orthomolecular Hall of Fame, 2006 –
And to clarify, I have no problem with a spiritual approach either. But I don’t think spirituality ought to be the *only* approach to sobriety!
Duane (sober since 1987)
In fact, AA was as much a nutritional program as a spiritual one, at its onset.
You’d never know it today.
Where are the real doctors? Most haven’t a clue!
We have no protocols in place for a step-by-step assessment to find and treat these *very real* medical conditions!
Talk therapy is not always the answer!
Bill Wilson, co-founder of AA was a big proponent of niacin (vitamin B-3).
And Dr, Abram Hoffer had enormous success with people who had been diagnosed with schizophrenia by using Orthomolecular (nutritional) Medicine.
On the one hand, we have conventional psychiatrists who continue to insist in their simple, inaccurate, reductionist “chemical imbalance” theories… on the other hand, there are the critical psychiatrists who (understandably) want to see this nonsense come to an end.
In the meantime, nobody in the medical community is focused on addressing many of the *real* conditions that cause severe mental illness, psychosis:
Trauma. Treatment for (emotional) trauma, that’s all I hear. While *physical* brain trauma is often never even assessed… A traumatic brain injury (TBI) ought to be a the top of the list, and an MRI ordered for each patient who shows up at an emergency room with psychotic symptoms. Checking for the use of marijuana, prescription drugs, street and OTC drugs; addressing sleep disorders. These things need to be looked at long before there is any assumption made…. including emotional trauma, and need for talk therapy.
I want to see conventional psychiatry gone. I also shutter to think of it being replaced by talk therapy, and *only* talk therapy. All the talk in the world won’t address a traumatic brain injury, or an adverse drug event.
My prayers go out to your daughter and family.
The comment I made earlier in the thread (typo – Mental *Illness*) was a passionate plea – that we begin to address these issues in a more holistic fashion, especially when it comes to children. It was my way of saying we can do better. We can, and we must.
But it was not an indictment of people who have yet to find answers, who continue to search. Most of us do the best we can with the information we have at hand… until such time we find more information.
The majority of regular commenters on MIA have been deeply injured by psychiatric drugs and/or have family members who have undergone trauma from their use. So the comments are often bold, passionate. Many of us have lost our patience.
But I hope we never lose sight of the opportunity to reach out to others, such as yourself, your daughter – to offer hope and support. I put together a website – it’s easy to navigate, with a few links in several categories to answer the questions I hear the most, out there in the real world (not simply the cyber world).
The two questions I hear on a regular basis, from people I come across every day, are: “If the drugs don’t work, what does?” “Ok, so where would I start?”
Here’s a link that might help:
Also, the Nutrition, Peer Support, Recovery Success, Research, Warning (to include information on safe drug withdrawal) pages might help also.
My best to your daughter and your family.
To clarify –
Parental permission, even with the *assent* of the child is not enough. Nothing short of *consent* ought to be allowed by law. That would take care of the problem.
For instance – a shrink puts a kid on psychoactive drugs, he/she loses their license, gets fined, and/or goes to jail.
Why? For breakin’ the law!
Making informed consent mandatory *by law* when it comes to so-called treatment by a psychiatrist would protect children the most.
Because children cannot legally give such consent!
P.S. Friends don’t let friends join NAMI. (formerly, the National Alliance ON the Mentally Ill; now, the National Alliance FOR Mentally Illness)
These practitioners need to be covered through Medicaid/Medicare, so people who are really suffering can get non-drug treatment:
Yes, it does stink.
The psychiatric drugs deplete nutrients, and to add insult to injury, many people experience what I guess might be called a hypersensitivity to supplements during withdrawal.
And there are so few doctors who are well-versed on all of this. Those who are, many people cannot afford. Buying a bronze plan on the healthcare marketplace can have a 5 – 6,000 deductible. And nutrients aren’t covered.
For those who can afford to see an alternative health care provider:
Yeah, you got it right… it’s a mess.
Please check out some of the links sent earlier in the thread.
Re: Research, this is a good site (search by health condition or diagnosis):
Thank you for all you did to get this accomplished.
A great victory!
Re: “Yes Duane life is complex and wellness is based on many factors.”
The credit for this statement goes to John (above).
I agree. Supplements have risks: making sure the brand is manufactured safely; watching for how some nutrients interact – with other nutrients, and with prescription medication; long-term use, especially with fat-soluble vitamins.
With that said, I think it’s important to keep some perspective on the use of nutrients. For instance:
There are 100,000 deaths per year from prescription drugs:
There are almost zero deaths per year from supplements:
From Andrew Saul, PhD:
“Natural health products, such as amino acids, herbs, vitamins and other nutritional supplements, have an extraordinarily safe usage history. In the USA, close to half of the population takes herbal or nutritional supplements every day. That is over 145,000,000 individual doses daily, for a total of over 53 billion doses annually.”
“Nutritional supplements are exceptionally safe. In 2003, there were no deaths from multiple vitamins without iron. There were no deaths from amino acids. There were no deaths from B-complex vitamin supplements. There were no deaths from niacin. There were no deaths from vitamin A. There were no deaths from vitamin D. There were no deaths from vitamin E.”
The full article here:
One of the best sites I’ve found for anyone who wants to learn more – including good safety information:
National Institutes of Health – National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health
National Institutes of Health – Office of Dietary Supplements
American Botanical Council – Commission E Monographs (herbs)
If the dress appeared purple, green and gold, does it mean I had Mardi Gras on my mind?
Just ask in’
Online. Good quality. Inexpensive:
Been buying supplements from them for years.
Keep up the great work!
IMO, we’re *beyond* the tipping point.
Why the reluctance to accept the obvious? –
There’s not a lot of money in nutrition.
Not a lot of professionals are needed.
Not a lot of sensationalism, drama.
It works quite well.
But it’s so simple.
Too simple, for many.
I’m glad it resonated, and I really look forward to the day when a law is passed, ending forced treatment, once and for all!
And I mean this sincerely. It’s easy to lose touch with the basics, at least for myself.
There have been studies showing that mercury dental amalgams can cause emotional, psychological, neurobehavioral conditions.
You’re familiar with this, but for fellow readers, this is a good link. Scroll down after listening to the opening video:
And I agree, this is yet another part of the battle.
Thank you for all you’re doing!
A couple of other examples of faulty logic on the part of the APA:
1) Patients seek the best in scientifically, evidence-based treatment
2) Psychiatrists treats patients
3) Therefore, psychiatry is scientific and evidence-based
1) All legitimate medical schools teach an appreciation of the scientific method
2) All psychiatrists attend medical school
3) Therefore, all psychiatrists appreciate the scientific method
There are a thousand other possibilities.
At the end of the day, I can’t begin to get my head around where Lieberman and the APA are coming from. All I really know is that their “medicine” ain’t based on science!
The logic behind Jeffrey Lieberman, et al:
All legitimate branches of medicine are based on science.
Psychiatry prescribes medicine.
Therefore, psychiatry is legitimately based on science.
Or something like that.
A note to the APA, this is science –
I also have empathy for anyone who has been coerced to take them, along with those who were not given adequate information on their dangers.
In other words, many people are on them because they had no choice, or less than informed choice.
Ending coercion, and demanding *fully-informed* consent would reduce their use considerably. These things, along with providing information on alternatives would curb their use to a level that is almost inconceivable.
Mental health “parity” must have seemed appealing, (“fair, compassionate”) at first glance by those who supported it… NAMI pushed for it among its membership; and lobbied Congress for years, until it was passed into law.
But it is not good law. It uses *force* to make other people pay for psychiatric drugs – through private insurance companies, which raises premium rates on everyone. I have now doubt whatsoever that it is one of the top reasons why health care quickly became entirely unaffordable for many people. Some of these drugs are so expensive that premium rates had to go up.
Psychiatric drugs in federal and state programs are the same – taxpayers are *forced* to pay for them in Medicaid, Medicare and the VA. This was something Dr. Thomas Szasz found offensive.
These “personal” decisions do not take place in a vacuum. Like the late George Carlin said, “A non-smoking section in a restaurant is like a non-peeing section in a swimming pool.”
By the way, there are psychiatric drugs in our drinking water. Not good.
I think we need to respect the right of others to make their own decision, but I think it’s important to be honest with these conversations… It’s not safe to drive on a cocktail of psychiatric drugs; it’s not safe to take them while pregnant, nursing; their long-term use often causes disability – which is not so much a “personal decision”, when the neighbor down the street has to pay (through taxes) for yet another person who cannot work any longer, due to the effects of the drugs.
Maybe we change the world the most when we reach out to one person at a time and show them love (from the guy who’s hell-bent on getting a federal law passed).
All I know is that “Martha” will never forget you.
You may be 67, but you’re still a kid at heart. I always enjoy your stories, you have a big heart. Nothing is more needed in this world of ours.
Thank you for the reminders: There are some good doctors. We need to see the good ones as allies. Life is complex, and wellness is based on many factors. Well put. Thank you, John.
Unfortunately, typo includes misspelling name of MIA author, Dorothy Dundas.
I don’t know that we disagree. What I’m trying to say is that, at least IMHO, we ought to focus, like a laser beam on precisely what it is we are trying to accomplish.
NAMI has plenty of hard-liners, and many members who swear by these drugs. I think it’s better to fight the larger fight – namely, making it illegal to force someone to take them.
Perfect world, they would be used only as a last resort, after alternatives have been exhausted; their use would be reduced to almost no use. But we don’t live in a perfect world, and the big battle, the one that we need to start with, is an end to the use of psychiatry by force. Only then will alternative approaches really begin to take root.
Apologies – typos, typos, typos… need to get better reading glasses, to proof read before posting.
Tina Minkowitz got the job done through the UN.
The problem is *enforcement*, IMO.
We need to get something passed through Congress, to protect people in this country. And we need to encourage, and back people in other countries to do the same. With laws that are both *enforceable* and *enforced*.
Yes, it can be done. But we need to start a *movement* .
I’ve been an active reader and participant of MIA for almost 5 years, and I have to say, “What movement?”
I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, but I see no movement on this site. There are personal stories that make anyone with a heart weep. Ted’s comes to mind – what he underwent as a child. Dorothy Dumas, as well. Many others, but those are the ones that touch my soul.
We have articles on research, and all of the fraud taking place – both on the pharmaceutical-side, and on the side of government-funded research. Follow the money – both private and public. We have pieces on alternatives, front-and-center is psychotherapy; followed by a few on nutrition, with very little on other medical causes of psychosis, mania, depression, etc… Very few. We have a great mix of writers, from academics to those on the front lines. It’s entertaining, and enlightening. Their work engages us – we have dialogue.
We have numerous readers who were so gravely injured they make reference to Nazi Germany. Something that is the last thing anyone should do, if they want to be taken seriously, but as fate would have it, psychiatry has its roots in eugenics and Nazi Germany.
On the flip-side, we have people who occasionally chime in who swear they were helped by psychiatric drugs. Sandra Steingard says many of her patients were helped. There are those who insist on a judicious use of psychiatric drugs – for a short period of time, in small doses, for a limited period of time…..Robert Whitaker and others insist that a small sub-group do well on small amounts for larger periods of time. In rare circumstances, indefinitely.
So, we have the two extremes, when it comes to outcomes (and all sorts of areas in-between). Then we get into politics, with many on the more progressive-side of the equation insisting psychiatry is a symptom of a society that is ill. Wanting to get rid of capitalism altogether.
There is sometimes on ending oppression in all forms, universally. A noble enough challenge, but I wonder how we can possibly get anywhere with the political fight we have to undertake, when we spread ourselves so thinly…
And what is this fight of ours? In my opinion, it is to put an end to psychiatry by force. Plain and simple.
If someone swears they were helped by psychiatry. Fine. If they continue to swear they were helped by psychiatry, fine also…. But we must put an end to psychiatry by force.
And how do we get this done? That’s the million dollar question. I think we need to start out with the acknowledgement that the average Joe and Jane Doe have not a clue with what is taking place. No idea of the fraud behind research; no idea what effects these drugs, ECT and incarcerations can do… the grave harm and trauma. So we need to educate them, and invite them into our tent.
I do not see that a militant approach is the right way to go, when the overwhelming number of Americans have no idea what is taking place. We need them on our side.
Psychiatrists and other mental health professionals? Reaching out to them? I think not. Not if they are behind this injury. We need not become allies with them on a systematic change. They are the ones we are trying to replace.
I’ve said before that I think we need to begin to work on getting a bill passed through Congress – the would put an end to forced treatment, replacing force with a variety of alternatives. This may be possible with amending the ADA; if that is not enough, then a federal law that would do so.
But we are not in a place to have a militant approach. The vast majority of people in this country are completely unaware of what has been taking place. I think that if more people were aware, they would be ready to march alongside us. Not at the moment, because they’ve never heard of us!
Lastly, I lived through the civil rights movement. It was a different time and place. Blacks were being hosed down on the streets. Everyone could see it on the six o’clock news. And people began to get outraged. The oppression and violence that happens to the “mentally ill” happens behind closed doors. Millions of people overcome the horror, and somehow move on. Because of the stigma, they don’t tell anyone (or a select few) and move on. Being black was visible in the 1960’s; being diagnosed as “mentally ill” is not.
Just a few scattered thought.
Thank you. I often feel all-alone on this site. And keep up the great work with the blog on International Society for Ethical Psychology and Psychiatry (ISEPP), along with the other great volunteer work you do!
I agree with you!
And although I greatly appreciate the fact that some people have experienced trauma and can be helped by psychotherapy, I am concerned that *many* others have medical conditions that are far-too-often ignored!
US Senator Chuck Grassley’s work – the exposure of corruption in university psychiatric research involving *federal tax dollars* was a good example of “following the money”…
Following the money does not *always* lead to private, for-profit sources (in this case, pharma), but far too often, *public* sources.
In short, billions are being ripped off from taxpayers, many of whom are middle-income people. The debt is similar to a credit card. It’s real money, that future generations will need to pay back. And it’s criminal.
Yes, it is!
I don’t feel qualified to respond. Maybe some others would like to comment on the abstract/link.
Thank you so much for your comments, and I hope your child continues on their journey of wellness!
To clarify – the anger is toward conventional psychiatrists, not you. (didn’t word it well).
Better link. Depression studies *by date*:
I think you can find some good science behind treatment of sleep apnea, and how allowing oxygen to go to the brain (rather than being obstructed) helps the *brain* heal – allowing an individual to overcome many forms of “mental illness” – depression, anxiety, agitation, mood swings. The *brain* needs oxygen: our mental health depends on it.
There are some good *scientific* studies on various vitamins, ie, B-12 and D-3 for the treatment of depression; omega 3s and bipolar, etc, etc… Are these naturally-occurring elements, used as a form of treating a deficiency, similar to treating a “chemical imbalance?” I would say, maybe so.
But if a person were to change their diet, and “treat” depression or bipolar with the right source of nutrients from foods, nobody on MIA would blink an eye. Maybe there is something to the “chemical imbalance” theory after all, considering what we are beginning to find out in the area of nutritional studies. Here are over 1,200 studies on nutrients for depression:
I see your point, but disagree slightly. Because neurotransmission cannot be measured, the chemical imbalance theory is anyone’s guess. But our brains are connected to our bodies. Our guts have neurotransmitters, and much more serotonin than our brains. Hormonal imbalances have an effect on emotions, so does the thyroid, the adrenals… the chemistry of the body can get out of balance… but not the brain? That seems like a stretch.
I believe imbalances can be corrected, without the use of toxic drugs. So I suppose you could say that I am not so much against the (anyone’s guess) “chemical imbalance” as I am against the toxic chemical “cure.”
What exactly is ADHD? Good question.
Unfortunately, I posted a comment in the wrong place.
Please scroll up the thread to read it.
*If* you make the decision to stop taking psychiatric drugs (and nobody should ever feel coerced into doing so), please do so slowly, carefully, with medical supervision, and a strong support system in place.
MIA has some good links:
Again, this would need to be *your* decision.
I owe you an apology.
You are new to this site, with less than a half-dozen blog posts. Yet, I was quick to jump… on what I consider a missing piece of the puzzle, namely the need to search for underlying medical conditions, rather than relying solely on psychotherapy.
I don’t regret having stated my opinion, but I do feel badly about how it was stated. I should have thanked you for taking a strong stand against the current paradigm, and your work toward making safer, more effective options known, and available.
I apologize for not doing so, and for mis-directing my anger toward conventional psychiatrists. Thank you for being part of MIA.
I consider myself to be as critical of psychiatry as anyone on this site, but that criticism stops at the door of the profession, and I have no ill will toward anyone who has sought, or continues to seek conventional psychiatric treatment. My anger (and rage) is reserved toward those who cause suffering, not toward those experiencing it.
It sounds like you’re a person who has done the best you can, with the information you had (continue to have) at hand, like every other person out there.
You ask a good question – what is ADHD? Obviously, it depends who you ask. But if you asked me, it can be based on a number of physical possibilities: nutritional deficiencies, food allergies (sensitivities), and/or absorption difficulties. I think the symptoms of what is called “ADHD” are very real, and very few people know where to find non-drug treatment. Neurofeedback can be helpful, along with eliminating culprits in the diet; along with making sure certain nutrients are in the diet.
In the event you are interested…
There are some good links on my website, under the categories ‘Root Causes of Mental Illness’ and ‘Nutrition’. Also, under ‘Peer Support’, there is a link to Safe Harbor, an online support group. You may want to look at the work of Mary Ann Block, DO; Natasha Campbell-McBride, MD; and Kelly Brogan, MD (MIA blogger) on the site:
I think the backlash you experienced on MIA is due to the personal experience many in this group have experienced – with psychiatric drugs, often by force.
I don’t always fit in well with this group. My politics are hardly in keeping with most on this site, and I happen to believe that the *right kind* of medical intervention can go a long way in helping people overcome very serious underlying *physical* conditions that are called “mental illness.”
In short, I agree, *something* is going on with “ADHD”, and suffering is very *real*. For whatever it’s worth, I know first-hand how it feels to be misunderstood on an online group. I hope you the best.
Not *always* best treated with talk therapy; sometimes oxygen does the trick:
I think it’s important not to claim that the brain is *never* part of the problem. A traumatic brain injury can be a root cause, from an automobile accident, sports injury, concussion… or in the case of a veteran, from an explosive devices:
This is only *one* example of a physical, underlying reason a person may be suffering from a “mental illness.” I cannot wait until the day more doctors begin to acknowledge this.
Ironically, so is lithium (present in tomatoes). Although it may be better to get nutrients through foods, most people don’t.
“I also appreciate that racism, sexism, ableism, transphobia, moral training, mass incarceration, and class exploitation are major forces of power and domination in our society. These forces, when mingeld with a flagging economy, influence many individual’s stories as much, or far more as, their particular psychiatric drug regimen.”
Racism and sexism? Are we talking about institutionalized versions, or individuals hearts and minds? We’ve come a ways with the first, with a way to go with the latter.
‘Moral training’ gets put in the same problematic list as racism? What do you mean by ‘moral training’? Surely, parents have an obligation to teach their children right from wrong; how to learn be responsible adults. I’m lost.
‘Transphobia’? I’m not seeing a lot of this. Former Olympian, Bruce Jenner isn’t receiving a lot of backlash in the press, at least none that I’ve seen or heard; nor is there chatter in the street. I think many people prefer to mange their own lives.
As far as the demographics of professionals in psychiatry (residents, APA, 2011), it’s not a good ole boys/ white man’s club:
Gender: 55% female, 45% male;
Race: 53% white, 7.8% black, 26% Asian, 8.6% latino…
So, if there’s a trend, it’s not toward more white guys, it’s toward more Asian women.
The APA, it could be argued is a pretty “diverse” group, at least in regard to gender, race… Diverse in ideas? Not so much.
The larger point of addressing ‘oppression’…. yet not a word about ISIS, a group that beheaded 21 Christian Egyptians recently?
I appreciate your comments, and I agree with your assessment. You have a lot of good things to say on this site, and I’m glad you’re here.
I apologize for any misunderstanding, and share your concerns.
IMO, there are two things that need to be addressed:
A) And end to the use of force by conventional psychiatry.
B) Making alternatives available for those who voluntarily seek them.
I don’t see a conflict, as long as these services are provided with fully-informed consent. There are a lot of people out there who would benefit from treatment for sleep disorders, nutritional deficiencies, thyroid issues, hormonal imbalances, etc. Some people, by their *own* admission are not functioning at an optimal level, and would like to receive more holistic care. Many parents have no idea where to go.
Could this program be added to the list of MIA Resources? –
Shinah House puts a focus on nutrition, along with holistic approach:
Earth House uses Orthomolecular (nutritional) Medicine:
My apologies, Dr. Brogan for jumping in before you had the opportunity to comment, but after reading the question, I wanted to give her some hope.
Please excuse the interruption, but I thought
Link to Pastoral Counselors and Catholic Therapists (for anyone interested):
IMHO, Jesus himself was the world’s greatest counselor…. and he reached out to all – with unconditional love. He counseled and comforted the sinner and the saint; the believer and the non-believer.
I have no problem with any counselor or therapist who does the same. The problem is that there are not enough of them. Having said that, I have a real problem with a professional who ridicules somebody’s faith. For many people, their faith is much more than a “belief system” – it’s a way of life.
Thanks for clarifying and sharing your journey on MIA. I hope the very best for you and your life ahead.
You were seven years old, and your parents called you a ‘g.d.s.o.b. kid.’ Then you got on mind-altering drugs and could see things clearly?
Since seeing things clearly, have you been able to see the level of verbal abuse you underwent as a child? The reason I ask, is because *no* child deserves to be *abused* that way.
No further comment.
Sorry to hear of your rx lithium-induced thyroid condition.
Unfortunately, this is quite common when a person is put on prescription lithium, in doses that are just below the toxic level. Far too often, toxicity occurs.
I am talking about very small amounts of lithium orotate (not lithium carbonate as a prescription in large doses, but lithium orotate as a supplement in very small amts). I’m fully aware of the negative publicity about this (including Wikipedia, which I often take with a grain of salt).
I am talking about something different – small doses, as a supplement. Done this way, lithium orotate can be helpful to the brain:
It was not my intent to get into a long debate on the subject; only to point out to readers interested where to find out more about this subject. I’ve taken it for years, with no problems. Many others, as well.
The last word is yours (if you want).
To clarify, lithium is a naturally-occuring *mineral* – one which is *required* by the body, especially the brain, in trace amounts to properly function.
If you eat tomatoes, you take the so-called “drug”, lithium. And lithium is in your brain. It needs to be there to work right. The link above is a good *starting* point.
I take an orotate form of the *mineral* lithium, in small amounts.
It is not a drug, it’s a *mineral* – naturally occurring in some foods and in our brains. It helps me tremendously:
I agree – being against something is not enough.
I consider myself *pro* wellness, *pro* recovery, and *pro* freedom (not necessarily in that order).
I will refrain from any further comments; taking a break for a while from commenting (debating, arguing) on MIA for my own sanity (and the sanity of others?), but felt the need to let readers know of the benefits of lithium orotate.
Re: “Is global warming real?” — it’s “Global warming is bad for mental wellness.”
So, if the topic were about the boogie man, and how frightening he is… the discussion could not be if he is real (that would be disrespectful and a derail), but how bad he was for mental wellness. That would be good, healthy dialogue.
Ok, got it.
How exactly does a topic get “derailed” by a dissenter?
This topic, so-called “man-made” global warming, could be debated for weeks – with hundreds of comments, without scratching the surface – by those of us who argue that the science is bogus (clearly outnumbered on this site).
If this were being discussed at this length on a blog post where the topic was about a psychiatric issue, it would be deemed inappropriate for the topic, by the guidelines, and sent to forums.
Yet someone can start a topic, leading to this type of intense debate, without starting it in a forum discussion?
All I can say is that it’s no wonder we have nothing to show politically as a group. No progress in ending psychiatric force. Things are as they were, decades ago.
We’re not focused.
We’re going nowhere.
And we’re getting there quickly.
I’ll take your advice, I won’t read another piece on global warming, or another *completely* unrelated topic again. I’ll sit on my hands, and say nothing, and make no mention of the forums.
Censorship is something governments do. Editing is what journalists and *good* websites do, to keep conversations on topic, etc.
So stop calling me a censor. And if you don’t like my comments about taking unrelated topics to forums – don’t read them!
There’s about as much true science behind the theories of man-made global warming as there is behind psychiatric drug research. Not much science at all!
So I suppose there is a relationship between the two.
David, it’s as if you assume every MIA reader shares your political views… I certainly don’t…
The planet?… I’m more interested in the harm that can come to *people* if this hoax continues! Please take this topic (and others like it) to the Forum section.
I thought MIA was a site dealing with mental health, psychiatric drugs, etc…
I’ll go to a psychiatrist for psychotherapy alright … When hell freezes over!
Also, your comment about ‘manic-depressive’ being a more (scientifically) accurate term than ‘bipolar’ was rich. I’m white. I would never suggest that ‘negro’ was a better term than black, with an explanation of the negroid race was more accurate; because nobody has truly black skin.
Why? Because individuals and groups have a right to choose the terms *they* feel best describe them; not others, who are not members of that group, especially those who have historically faced discrimination.
I give up on psychiatrists. Really, I have no desire to change hearts and minds in your profession. I just want to see you all replaced.
That’s all. Replaced.
You wrote: “There is another tragic feature of schizophrenia – The Humpty-Dumpty factor. Once the self and the plays are fractured, they cannot fully be put back together again.”
I have a quick question: “How can you possibly know that?
The answer is you cannot predict how deeply a fellow human being may heal.
*Many* people have fully recovered from the diagnosis of so-called “schizophrenia” (whatever that is):
Here are several who refused to believe they were “Humpty Dumpties”:
How sad that some people never recover because they believe the bizarre and hopeless prognoses of shrinks.
My apologies, you mentioned having treatment costs covered. This would apply to both SSI/Medicaid and SSDI/Medicare.
You hit several nails on the head!
A great blog piece!
One factor to consider is disability from these conditions. This is another area that needs to be addressed for those who truly cannot work (hopefully, becoming more temporary than permanent, with a paradigm shift underway).
How can somebody obtain and keep these benefits without a psychiatric label? We need to address this issue, particularly and ironically, for those who are disabled from conventional psychiatric treatment.
Lastly, where did you get that smile?! Wow!
Absolutely horrible rape statistics in Cambodia (95% Buddhist nation), from that “conservative” source, Aljazeera:
Very disturbing rape and sexual abuse in India, from CNN (85% Hindu nation):
This just in: Monotheism and western civilization (including America and Israel) are not responsible for all of the violence in the world. These have been with us from the dawn of time, and are *universal* – for people of *all* races and creeds. Circumcised and not; meat-eaters, and vegetarians.
To clarify, this is a *financial* model that would help. Not necessarily a *treatment* model.
Re: Profit and Government
This organization has a *2 million* dollar per day operating budget. It is non-profit, relying on donations to help children; without billing parents. It is also not dependent on government money (or control):
This is the type program needed for children in the mental health arena. Although, especially with children and “mental health”, it should use *zero* drugs.
You may be interested to know Dr. Breggin is Jewish, as are several MIA readers.
I find your remark to be anti-Semitic.
Israel has been in the fight for her life and that of her people for decades. The comment about rape and killing everyone is sight applies to her enemies.
But this is not the place. Use the Forum section to discuss Hamas.
When it comes to psychiatry, we are in solidarity.
This is one of the best pieces ever written on MIA.
I am one of your biggest fans.
But, you lost me on this one.
“Natural selection for the capacity to feel guilt, shame and anxiety was not guided by rational ethical standards but by the necessities of survival and procreation. Built into us by the crude processes of natural selection and then activated and shaped by the vagaries of our unique childhoods, these negative legacy emotions have little or nothing to do with genuine or mature ethics.”
This is not about natural selection, or genes.
This has to do with *spiritual* development.
You also wrote:
“Over millions of years of evolution, they helped, however imperfectly, to moderate internal family conflict; but they serve little or no useful purpose in deciding how to live a mature adult life.”
People feel guilt when they do something wrong for one simple reason: to keep them from continuing to do it. This takes place in both childhood and adulthood; across the lifetime.
The conscience is part of every individual. Its development is a spiritual journey for each of us.
Dr. Breggin, if you ever find a bigger fan, I’d like to meet them.
But I think you really get this one wrong.
I don’t see having a forum discussion as one that takes place from the “sidelines.”
Any number of these blog posts could be a segue for a good talk about spirituality, religion, faith… I would enjoy the opportunity to read what others have to say; participate in the dialogue.
Unfortunately, we don’t have a forum for Spirituality:
Blaming others, making excuses, refusing to accept responsibility…
Are these people adults or children?
Re: “Patients were enrolled in the study after the authors “…obtained written informed consent from the AHCR [authorized healthcare representative] and assent from the study participants.” The term “assent” is widely used in the medical field to indicate that an individual, who is not legally competent to consent to a treatment, has indicated, verbally or non-verbally, a willingness to proceed.”
… Let me get this straight, the nursing home patients are having their brains shocked, based upon ‘assent’?:
“ECT (electroconvulsive therapy) involves the application of two electrodes to the head to pass electricity through the brain with the goal of causing an intense seizure or convulsion. The process always damages the brain, resulting each time in a temporary coma and often a flatlining of the brain waves, which is a sign of impending brain death. After one, two or three ECTs, the trauma causes typical symptoms of severe head trauma or injury including headache, nausea, memory loss, disorientation, confusion, impaired judgment, loss of personality, and emotional instability. These harmful effects worsen and some become permanent as routine treatment progresses.” – Peter Breggin, MD, http://www.ectresources.org
Something’s wrong with this picture. Very wrong.
Than you for being part of MIA, and for your wonderful video, ‘From Gut to Brain, and Back Again’ –
This should be seen by all psychiatrists.
In keeping with the guidelines of MIA, I’ve left comments for B and Richard in the political forum section (typo in the topic heading):
My apologies for momentarily derailing the blog post topic. I should have created a political topic earlier in the thread.
Actually, it appears that Abilify is an approved drug for children for some uses. Go figure.
These drugs are not cheap.
$800 – $900 per month for Abilify:
Much of this is Medicaid fraud:
The states have a vested interest in containing Medicaid costs, because states have to balance their budgets. The federal government (with its 18 trillion dollar debt), not so much. It can borrow or print money (although, not for much longer).
I don’t understand why state legislators don’t stand up to these drug makers. The state Attorney Generals seem to be the ones taking up that role – with billions in lawsuits against the pharmaceutical companies.
The pharmaceutical companies are involved in fraud – criminal behavior. But pharma cannot *force* people to take drugs, or *force* people to pay for them. Only the government can do those things. Pharmaceutical companies do not issue court orders, or impose taxes.
There may be no *genuine* (whatever that means) socialist countries in the world.
But there are a few *failed* ones still left.
Cuba comes to mind:
If you want to discuss this further, please take it to the political forum:
Poverty by country:
Capitalism causes poverty?
Or just opiate use?
Psychiatry “blames the brain.”
While many on MIA appear to blame capitalism.
Not sure if blaming either is the real answer.
Call me crazy.
Opiate use by country.
US is number 27.
The problem is capitalism, again?
Yes, psychiatry can kill a mosquito with a cannonball.
No more research is needed.
Not being able to make substantial income is not the same as posing an imminent threat to society.
Maybe we need to stop asking, “What would you do?” And start asking “What does the constitution say?”
Then of course, opinions won’t matter much.
To clarify, IMO the *special* treatment (ie, mental health courts) have not made things better; they’ve made things worse.
I’m not for *special* treatment for any citizen. *Equal* treatment is what’s needed. And mitigation is part of our legal system.
In short, tossing someone in a psychiatric institution for misdemeanor crime is absurd. The US Supreme Court has ruled that forced psychiatric treatment is a “massive curtailment of liberty.” It seems obvious that the punishment often does not fit the crime.
NAMI mommies and the Treatment Advocacy Center are involved in these cases…. Where are the lawyers?
I’m for *equal* protection as guaranteed in the constitution.
This would mean having an *attorney* and a jury of peers.
In the event it can be *proven* in a real court (not a mental health court, of the kangaroo variety), that a person truly poses a threat to their community, then a *lawyer* (not a social worker) can legally provide advocacy on behalf of his/her client. He/she can ask for least restrictive, most therapeutic options available – *mitigate* if necessary, as he/she would for *any* client.
Until people who have been diagnosed are given *full* constitutional rights, there will be no real, meaningful changes, Once constitutional rights are upheld, all kinds of options will begin to emerge; including more peer-run-respites, alternative treatments, etc.
To clarify, the decision by the court makes sense.
Rare in federal courts.
Thank you for the links.
Thank you for your comments.
You obviously know a great deal about this area.
About two months ago, I started snoring quite a bit (first time in my life I’ve had this problem… and I feel tired after waking up; fatigued at work). This is having an effect on my wife as well, who wakes up during the night from the snoring.
I want to makes sure it’s not sleep apnea…. I’m scheduled to go to a sleep disorder clinic after the New Year, and I’ll consider what you’ve had to say as I begin the process.
Appreciate your being part of MIA.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Re: Trying cognitive behavioral therapy first…
Why not try a sleep disorder clinic first, to treat or rule out serious sleep disorders first?
Sleep apnea can be life threatening. It can often be treated by a dental mouthpiece:
Neither did Abraham Lincoln (get the mem0).
Regarding depression, you wrote:
” It is actually a manifestation of personality when too much anger gets directed at the self and crosses the line into a symptom.”
I beg to differ.
Depression can be caused by numerous underlying physical conditions:
And for depression that comes from psychological despair. It is certainly not *always* caused by “anger directed at self”… It’s not *always* caused by anything in particular! IMO, there are likely as many reasons for depression as there are people who suffer from the condition. Each person is unique in how the interpret, approach and deal with their life circumstances.
“The brain does not lead anything. It follows.”
A traumatic brain injury can lead to depression; so can a stroke…
Alcohol affects the brain in a way that “leads”… ask any drunk.
Lastly, you wrote:
“Once a person is unconflicted about being selfish and not caring, his so-called depression may seem to diminish.”
I guess Mother Teresa never got the memo.
I look forward to the day when psychiatry is seen for what it is and disappears from the medical scene. But I remain concerned (beyond words) that it will one day be replaced by psychologists and other mental health professionals, who are anxious to fill a power void.
In spite of having earned a master’s degree in counseling, and practicing for many years; I’ve come to the conclusion in (especially in recent years) that empathy and caring are best shown as *equals*. Psychiatrist don’t know squat about the human brain. Psychologists, counselors, social workers know even *less* about the human mind.
Recover is unique for every person. Ask some of the folks on this site.
Duane Sherry, M.S., CRC-R
Good point. Many people experience hypersensitivity to supplements during psychiatric drugs withdrawal. Thanks for mentioning this.
MIA has some good links for psychiatric drug withdrawal – resources and communities:
My apologies for leaving so many back-to-back comments.
Info on 5htp:
typo – shows that nothing appears to be physically wrong
IMO, it’s a wise thing for a person to “listen to their body.”
Our bodies are pretty intelligent, and can warn us if we are in bad relationships, under too much stress, not getting enough sleep, need to exercise, need to relax, take a break, make a move, be still for a while, get something to eat, etc.
And when we have very real “symptoms” from any of these, it doesn’t mean we have a mental disorder; in fact, it these may be the first clues in helping prevent more emotional distress, or a physical illness.
Also, just because a brief exam by a doctor shows no clues that nothing appears to be physically wrong, doesn’t mean that an underlying physical illness is not the culprit. Thyroid problems, diabetes, sleep disorders, and many other conditions are routinely ignored by psychiatrists and GPs. Ironically, the drugs they prescribe often cause or exacerbate these conditions.
I still say, listen to your body. Even when docs say ignore it.
more like installing a *virus* in a pc
Compare for a moment, the work of Daniel T. Williams, MD, and Alla Landa PhD (the authors you mentioned) against the work of these two *real* scientists:
I don’t know about you, but I gotta say…
It’s my understanding that taking an antidepressant, along with SAMe can cause serotonin syndrome or toxicity (aka, serotonin poisoning); meaning far too much serotonin is in the body, which can be life-threatening:
Jeffrey was accurate in saying that 25% of the world’s prisoners are in the US. But the later comment in the thread about 1 in 4 citizens in the US being in prison was not.
I did not mean to single-out the commenter, but only to bring clarification. Also, apologize for the number of comments.
correction, 1 in 32 (roughly 3%) – in prison or on parole
Too many people may be locked up in this country, especially for non-violent crime….
But for the sake of *accuracy*, it’s not 1 in 4.
It’s 1 in 142 – in jail, prison.
And it’s 1 in 32 total – not locked up, but in the system, ie parole.
It’s not 1 in 4, for the sake of *accuracy* –
Thank you for being part of MIA.
Truth in Psychiatry,
Congratulations on saving your son’s life!
MIA has a number of chronicled articles on sleep:
Re: “no ‘solution is acceptable that does not vindicate their experience and social viewpoints in total and without ambiguity. For them it seems to be “my way or the highway.”
Due process rights are guaranteed in the constitution; taking this debate to a higher level. The answer to ending forced (so-called)”treatment” is to demand that these rights are upheld for people who’ve been diagnosed.
This may be *less complicated* and *more difficult* than we imagine.
But it’s not a decision that requires *consensus* by those who continue to violate the constitution. It does not require some sort of national referendum. It requires making sure constitutional rights are upheld. Period.
Criminals are at least afforded protection from ‘cruel and unusual punishment’, under the 8th amendment.
People locked in psychiatric facilities have no such rights. Held against their will; subject to massive neuroleptic drugging, ECT; isolation and seclusion… without having been convicted of any crime. Go figure.
Sleep deprivation is at the top of this list of considerations for “psychosis” and other serious “mental illnesses” and treatment for conditions such as sleep apnea deserve attention. As always, AA, I’m glad you’re part of MIA.
The “dis-advantaged” children through Medicaid programs.
The “advantaged” children with parents who have money.
They want them all.
Re: “The highest increases were among children under the age of 6, and children from more advantaged homes.”
It’s called *targeting*.
In fact, it’s worse… children cannot legally provide “informed consent.”
No idea what the author is talking about.
Ignoring sleep disorders makes me wonder how they can sleep at night.
Either / Or
Prison / Forced Treatment
Says Who ?!
Duane Sherry, M.S.,CRC-R
You would think that a country with a $18,000,000,000,000 debt might like to see some people go to work, and get off federal assistance.
This could be done by encouraging them in their effort to break free from psychiatry; providing resources and supports to assist them as they slowly taper OFF these drugs.
The status quo makes no sense.
Do the math:
Re: “… 32% of those who tapered were now working as compared to 14% in the other group.”
The unemployment rate for people with ‘chronic mental illness’ is reported to be around 80%. Much of this due to “medical treatment.”
There ought to be a campaign:
“Lose the treatment. Gain back your life.”
Much of it literally takes place behind closed doors. The public needs to have the doors opened, to see what’s really taking place. Then, I think there’s a good chance people will want to help put an end to psychiatry as we know it.
I understand your concern, and I agree that a few decent people inside the mental health system will not be what it takes to get rid of the system.
But I do think that educating the public at large could go a long way in receiving much-needed support. I’m convinced the average person on the street knows nothing about what happens every day in the mental health system; nor are they fully aware of what the long-term use of neuroleptics; the memory loss that occurs with ECT; the trauma that results in so-called hospitalization.
Fortunately, these things take pace for only a minority of people; unfortunately, the majority needs to be educated, before support can be gained, making the movement powerful, with the numbers needed to outlaw forced “treatment” once and for all.
Re: “… false imprisonment, medical malpractice, assault, battery, torture, and intentional infliction of mental distress.”
NOW we’re getting somewhere!
Thank you for providing more insight into what took place. More importantly, thank you for caring!
And thank God Justina had a fellow human being present for her in the midst of such chaos and trauma. Lastly, was a beautiful photograph!
Homosexuality – once a disease, now it’s not.
And psychiatry wonders why it is seen to have no credibility.
I hope I’m not off-topic here; but I’ve never understood the hatred some people have towards homosexuals. Since I was a kid, it has never made sense.
It still doesn’t. I just don’t get it.
The first 15 years of of our marriage, we lived in a largely gay/lesbian area in Dallas. We had a gay couple across the street; a lesbian couple next door. They were great neighbors. We watched out for each other.
I hear the term “homophobia” and it also makes no sense.
It sounds like psychobabble.
A person is afraid of homosexuals; or is it homosexuality; what exactly?
And I think to myself that it must be a pretty big fear, for them to strike out with such rage. And the rage makes me wonder if it has anything at all to do with fear. It seems more like hate…. and around and around my head goes, trying to figure it out….
I studied some of this stuff in graduate school. It still makes no sense. All I know is that I can’t stand it. As a Catholic, I appreciate some of the comments Pope Francis has recently made; his reaching out to the gay community. Maybe one day we will all learn to love one-another more perfectly; more unconditionally.
In the spirit of accuracy, it was *both*.
This was not a case of medical malpractice.
It was kidnapping.
spelling – atrocities
Typo above: 1776 by *Joseph* McCullough (not George).
(had King George on my mind).
I’ve always had enormous respect for any individual who considers themselves a pacifist for religious reasons (ie, a Quaker), along with any person who considers themselves to be a conscientious objector to war. This country shares the same respect.
I do not consider myself to be in either category, however and believe that there is a time and place for war. But it must be just:
I understand that the civil rights movement was comprised of many different people, with a vast arrays of beliefs on how to best overcome the oppression of the times. IMO, Reverend King was able to bring to the table what no other human being could have done, and for that reason I have deep respect and admiration for what he accomplished: namely, the greatest piece of legislation in American history. Period.
The Revolutionary War is fascinating. I recommend 1776 by George McCullough, for anyone interested. I’m fascinated by people who use the term ‘colonizers’ to describe what took place in American history. The revolutionaries pledged their to revolt *against* the colony; the tyranny of King George.
In regard to our movement.
I think any form of violence will only dampen the cause. These are some reasons why:
The public has yet to be fully informed about what’s taking place. The average person on the street believes “treatment” is the best option.
This includes those on the left, who desperately want to help the person in distress, and those on the right who see this as law enforcement, and want to protect society.
Both of these approaches do not work, but the public has yet to be fully informed as to why they don’t work.
Imminent threat is used to justify the “treatment.” In other words, there is a misunderstanding, among (some are good and decent) people that the incarcerations, drugs, ECT are “beneficial” – helping not only the person being forced into treatment, but society as well.
So if we have a movement that uses violence to get the point across – namely that people who have been falsely deemed to be an imminent threat are not a threat, we simply dig ourselves deeper into the ground.
“S/he should have stayed on their medication.”
“These people need to be locked up and stay locked up.”
“We need to make sure these folks stay away from our kids.”
And on and on.
We have yet to define who we are and what we hope to accomplish. The public has no earthly idea of what is really taking place with this so-called “treatment.”
So we start by really getting the word out. Not only to communities; along with political representatives, and we go from there… The long-term goal IMO: We need to either amend the ADA or get a bill passed through Congress (see comment to Tina Minkowitz, JD above).
We haven’t even begun to get started. And violence of any kind will only set this movement back.
I grew up in a mid-size town in Texas, and remember when blacks lived on the other side of the tracks. I later went to high school in Austin, shortly after a judge ruled that black students should be bussed into the school. It was violent in the school after that. I was however able to develop a better understanding of what it meant to be black in America, by seeing racism first hand.
The very best friend of my entire life happens to be black. For the past 30 years, he’s not seen my skin color; he’s also totally blind. I’ve seen the discrimination he faces on many occasions, out in public. And I’ve witnessed the same from those who come across my wife, who is latina.
But I must say, my friend has done well with his life. Has owned his own business for years. And my wife has been able to deal with the challenges she faces as well; not the least of which is living with me, with all my faults and shortcomings.
I would just like to say two things about your comment:
1) These problems are complex
2) I don’t have all the answers
One last one (there are countless). The Japanese felt enormous superiority (supremacy) when it came to invading China, where they killed 300,000; raped countless women; put them into sex slavery, during what has been referred to as the “Rape of Nanking”:
Again, not white male supremacists. The point is, this stuff is horrific, and unfortunately, historically *universal*.
IMO, there is right to protest in this country.
And there is always room for ‘civil disobedience’ if needed.
Martin Luther King practiced civil disobedience, and was tossed in jail for it, along with his followers.
But what made the civil rights movement successful was that it was peaceful.
Richard, you have referred to the Black Panthers as a group we should emulate. They used violence. So I’m out.
Also, they came along in *1966* – TWO YEARS after the passing and signing of the Civil Rights Act (of 1964).
In other words, the call for peaceful demonstrations worked before they even got in the game. Go figure.
45 million killed by Chairman Mao.
Hardly a white male supremacist, or greedy capitalist:
In this post you write:
“I think we are talking here about the history and present impact of psychiatry and racism in the United States, which is framed, at its crux, by the paradigm of white male supremacy.”
Earlier, you wrote:
“My understanding is that this legacy of white, male, colonial supremacy still lives with us today, and is a driving force behind our economy, our politics, and all the systems of world. For me, the more I grasp this truth, the more I see that fighting against oppression can never go very far as a local or single-issue struggle.”
IMO, whether you’re discussing psychiatry specifically, or the problems of civilization at-large, you point toward white males as the main source of problems.
I think this is far too simplistic, and not real.
I think if you spend some time really studying history, Matthew, you will find slavery has existed historically throughout the world: in Africa, where tribesman captured and sold one another to the Dutch; in this continent as well, as indigenous people warred against each other, taking slaves following battle into their own tribe… Slavery continues today, in many countries where young girls are captured and sold in the sex trades…
There has been historic genocide for centuries throughout the world” in the Middle East; under shariah law, women are being stoned to death for adultery; also other autrocities: cutting off hands of thieves; a long list… white supremacists again?
White supremacists are not the only people who have committed genocide. Pol Pot comes to mind. Murdered millions, if memory serves. Many leaders have committed massive murder and oppression against their own. Mao Tse Tung, hardly a saint… and hardly a white supremacist.
Bring the subject back to US and psychiatry? (You were the one who broadened the topic, not me). Is psychiatry in this country, at this time the result of white supremacy? I think we could ask some of the practitioners who are not white (asian, black, latino, etc). Or some of the researchers of many racial and ethnic backgrounds.
In short, please stop painting pictures of white men that conjure up images of hatred. You wouldn’t think of doing so with any other ethnic group. You’re a smart guy; and you’re better than this.
Sometimes, right when you least expect it, comes a random act of kindness:
Thank you for all you’ve done.
I especially appreciate your laser-beam focus on the specific items needed to protect people from forced so-called treatment.
The only issue, as I see it is enforcement/enforceability. I’m not impressed with the UN in this area.
Which leads me to two questions:
1) What are your thoughts about amending the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) in such a way as to make certain people who have been (mis) diagnosed are given the same protections (least restrictive clause) as other people covered by the act?
2) What are your thoughts about an act of Congress, guaranteeing civil rights the so-called mentally ill (with verbage similar to the Civil Rights Act of 1964?
I’m all for universal rights protection, through the UN, but is it enforced? Is it enforceable?
If someone starts such a topic, I will not be able to participate, unfortunately. Because of a computer glitche of some kind, I haven’t been able to successfully post comments in the forums.
I am also concerned. The problem when it comes to psychiatry particularly is *crony* capitalism. The cozy relationship with pharmaceutical companies, the FDA and NIMH…
Pharmaceutical companies are involved in fraud, and their psychiatric drugs are causing injury and premature death. Their actions are criminal. But its the federal government who is failing to provide oversight in areas such as Medicaid, Medicare, VA programs. The states are getting soaked, and successfully fine theses companies to recover losses to their state coffers, but those injured have no recourse.
The last I checked, the pharmaceutical companies cannot use *force* when it comes to these drugs. Only the government; and it is involved in unconstitutional court orders, routinely.
There are a number of people on this site who like to blame capitalism for everything under the sun. I would like to hear some specifics (in the forum section, because it will be a *long* thread on political/economic theory) on what they would like to replace capitalism with exactly.
Re: a week
I did not mean this in a disparaging way (to imply that you were not aware of these autrocities). From my own experience, I’ve found that if I focus a full week on trying to see something from another point of view, I gain insight.
I would suggest the autrocjties you speak of are not limited to whites, Europeans, this continent or any particular time or place. Spend a week – a full week studying conquests, slavery, mistreatment of women and minorities, political oppression. You will find that it is universal.
These rights cannot be earned. They are a birthright.
Nor can they be arbitrarily taken away, without violating natural law.
But they can be lost, without exercising personal responsibility.
Re: ” I grew up understanding that rights and responsibilities are inextricably bound up together.”
From Gut to Brain and Back Again – video by MIA writer Kelly Brogan, MD:
We’ll have a debate on religion another time and place. I’m not interested in derailing Philip’s blog piece with a long debate. We need a forum on spirituality.
I don’t think it’s accurate to claim that bio-psychiatry’s actions are based on any such theories.
Psychiatrists are the *least* religious among physicians:
Religion has its historical dark side; so does humanity itself. I would suggest that secular humanism can be reductionist; often losing sight of the *dignity* of each human being.
People need hope. Not put in a situation of learned *false* hopelessnes. The broken brain theory needs to be thrown into the dumpster!
Good point, Steve.
I always appreciate reading your comments!
To clarify, I’m not referring to “naturalism” or the rejection of morality, spiritual teachings; but quite the opposite. Natural Law in the purest sense; one that IMO must have a place for a society to remain civil:
Thank you both!
Re: “… Christian world view was no longer compatible with Natural Science or a Natural Philosophy.”
I’m not a member of the clergy, but I am a person of faith; a Christian (Catholic).
As I understand it, Natural Law is the foundation of faith, law, freedom, responsibility….
It can be seen in the Catechism of the Catholic Church; the U.S. Constitution; the Bill of Rights… It was understood and appreciated for hundreds of years by the great philosophers – Plato, Aristotle, Cicero. You can find it in our courtrooms…
But not in psychiatry.
Thank you for your comments. I appreciate what you had to say.
The intelligence; the research; the science, the graphs; the quotes; the facts…
The passion; the dialogue; the honesty…
I love your posts, Philip!
My apologies – blood tribe members (including an elder) of the Blackfoot Nation.
Have you heard of Shinah House?
It is an alternative wellness and recovery approach with several members of leadership from the Blackfoot tribe:
Psychiatry is not broken, it’ s shattered.
It doesn’t need to be repaired, it needs to be replaced.
I consider faith healing to be very real.
Receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit; anointment with holy oil.
IMO, there is a spiritual dimension to all of this.
tppo – what good is blame?
Blame the person.
Blame the brain.
Blame capitalism or western civilization at large (for the forum section).
Why not get to the root cause?
Sometimes involving the need to develop healthy relationships, overcome trauma, many other reasons….
Sometimes poor digestion/absorption:
Or a *host* of other culprits.
Where good is blame?
Why do the so-called experts continue to assume these problems exist in the brain; while ignoring everything from the neck-down, including the gut?
Dr. Peter Breggin: *Six Decades* of Consistency!
Correction, not Psychology Today
He also has a blog on Psychology Today, the Huffington Post and NaturalNews.
He is a frequent guest on Fox News. His career has included being a consultant to the NIMH; teaching fellow at Harvard… More here:
The pharmaceutical companies are involved in criminal behavior, without question.
But the *federal government* is a huge part of this problem also… a HUGE part!
As Dr Peter Breggin explains in this video:
Dr. Breggin is not only the “conscience of psychiatry”, but the heart of psychiatry as well.
God bless you and your wife Ginger.
I always enjoy your posts!
This is one of my favorite quotes on the subject of suffering, from someone who certainly had experience on the subject in her life:
“Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and *suffering* can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved.” – Helen Keller
And of course, John Paul II had much to say of the spiritual value of suffering; serving as an example of dying with dignity, while in great pain.
Liberty and justice for all. Especially those who find themselves in the vulnerable position of being in a temporary state of emotional distress!
Anti-psychiatry is extreme.
But sometimes, extreme is what’s needed.
“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!” – Barry Goldwater
Great post. A agree, we live in a society that is starved for listening.
“Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word,*a listening ear*, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.” – Leo Buscaglia
An Oxymoron… Kinda’ like Jumbo Shrimp
These are (supposedly) doctors after all, who have taken a Hippocratic Oath.
Great post, again, as usual.
“Within this paradigm, psychiatric medication may continue to serve a complimentary role, in select situations, for limited duration, and with the ultimate goal of discontinuing use whenever possible, due to the extremely serious health consequences of the drugs and their limited demonstrated efficacy in the long term.”
The challenge, it would seem is in defining what a “limited duration” should be. How long can each of the classes of these drugs be used: a few days, a few weeks, no more than a few months? And it seems to me that question has yet to be answered satisfactorily.
IMO, *fully* informed consent needs to include the following statement: We have no idea how long these drugs can be used safely, without possibly causing irreputable harm. Also, *fully* informed consent would mean a description about the pain and suffering that is quite *common* with withdrawal; along with putting a plan together for withdrawal before the first prescription is written.
Otherwise, it’s a game of Russian Roulette.
My two cents,
The sign of the cross is powerful. I use it when I see a fire truck or ambulance. It sounds good that your friend uses it when she sees a psychiatrist. It makes perfect sense.
Oh, and Michael, I consider you a saint.
I have a br0ther who is a mechanic.
One time, when I was young, he told me that when a piece of metal breaks, and is welded back together, the spot where it is welded is stronger than the original piece.
I experienced a very traumatic event almost 35 years ago. After the event, his explanation of metal being welded was one that I told myself, for decades, literally. I was fortunate to have found a counselor, who in many ways reminds me of you. He cared – deeply, and showed it, as a fellow human being…. a warm, and caring soul, who listened.
Other than that, I told only a couple of people about this, for years. I continue to call this major trauma (and other traumas in my life) ‘unspeakable’ because for me to talk about them at this point only brings them back into the present.
I remember feeling uneasy reading or seeing anything related to the event – names of streets nearby, the city itself, anything remotely connected to what happened, where it happened, etc….
In many ways, I still do.
Mine is not an example of completely overcoming a trauma I suppose. But I wonder if maybe I’m suppose to just let it be where it is. Not try to touch it anymore. Leave the healing where it is, in hopes that the present moments crowd out the remaining injury. I’m not recommending this to anyone else, just talking about what’s worked for me…. not perfectly, but worked nonetheless.
I agree with you, wholeheartedly!
Pro-Informed Consent Advocate?
You’ve told me that, more than once.
As you’re aware, I participate in the political forum, where these discussions belong. The blog moderator explains:
If you have a bone to pick, please take it up with the MiA staff by private email:
Corinna has the view that ‘anti-psychiatry’ is seen as ‘anti-science’.
She may be on to something.
Your comment about the inevitable collapse of psychiatry, once coercion is taken away is a strong point. IMO, a valid one.
I’m grateful we have a Political Forum on MiA, for a couple of reasons:
A) Any decent debate on a particular political subject requires time and space, for people to expand on their thoughts… so they aren’t reduce to small bytes…
B) It keeps us from hijacking the original topic of the blog author.
It seems that political topics get pretty heated on this site. I think we are all in search of how to make this world a better place… We just have different views on how to do so.
I’d buy a ticket to that movie!
I hope more laywers will begin to do some pro bono work. More great lawyers, like Jim Gottstein and Tina Minkowitz.
I would be for making all psychotropic drugs illegal for children – starting with foster care and Medicaid in each of the states.
And for requiring a form be signed showing that a person has received *fully* informed consent – the good (if any); the bad, and the ugly – starting with federal programs – ie, VA, Medicare. Duplicating this for patients seeing private practitioners, required by federal law.
I hate these drugs as much as you do.
I hesitate however to allow the government to become the nanny state of the people.
It has failed miserably in making sure the public is aware of the dangers of these drugs. I have no faith in their ability to eradicate their use.
I would be for outlawing them for children.
Children cannot give legal consent.
Some helpful links:
We owe veterans much better!
I did not serve, but many in my family and extended family have served….
Several wars: WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam
Each of the branches: Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines
To the veterans on this site:
Thank you for your service.
“Safe for a short period of time” is a recurring theme with these drugs.
The question to be answered for each class is: What constitutes a “short period of time?”
You state that Benzodiazapines can become addictive within a week or two of their use, and yet psychiatrists fail to point this out. Unbelievable!
This topic came up on a recent blog post by Corinna. Specifically that taking a benzo for a day or two might be an option for much-needed sleep. Is a day or two a safe period of time?
Some *fully* informed consent is needed, it appears. As difficult as it is, I think we need to allow people to make their own decisions with these drugs… to err on the side of individual liberty, if you will. The challenge, IMO is making sure people are *fully* informed.
The FDA, NIMH and other federal agencies have failed in this area. So have private practitioners. This leaves individuals in the position to make these decisions…. hopefully, we’ll get to the point where they are *fully* informed to do so…
Hopefully, most will make smart decisions; unfortunately, there will always be those who make not-so-wise decisions…. I’ve made a few along the way. I guess we all have. Live and learn.
Yes, it was!
… nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. – 14th Amendment, US Constitution
keyword: *ANY* person
I consider myself *proudly* anti-psychiatry, because I am against the *illegitimate* use of force on someone whose greatest “crime” is to be in a state of emotional distress.
I’m for due process. If the state perceives a person is a threat, then the individual has a right to have their case heard – in a real court, with full and adequate legal representation from an attorney, where the person in question can have a lawyer question their accusers, in front of a jury. In short, the state must *prove* the person is a threat.
A good lawyer:
1) Doctor X, can you tell the jury what medical tests are involved in diagnosing a person with schizophrenia?
2) How long had this person gone without sleep? Could sleep deprivation be part of the problem?
3) Did you run any test for traumatic brain injury? Why not? Can the symptoms you describe be caused by a TBI?
4) Do you believe a person with this diagnosis can fully recover? No? Are you familiar with Open Dialogue? The work of several others who have shown enormous success rates in this area?
5) Have you presented other less-restricted, more-therapeutic options with this person? Their family and friends?
6) How will locking this person up and/or forcing them to take drugs help in their long term recovery? Do you not see this approach as anything but therapeutic? Would you welcome this approach on yourself, if you were in this position? Really? Explain to the jury why?
7) Are you familiar with the work of Psychiatrist Peter Breggin? Are you aware that this former Harvard teaching professor refers to these drugs as “brain disabling?
And on and on …
I’m for real treatment – helping address the source of emotional distress; finding other medical root causes and addressing those as well.
Politically, I’m anything but a liberal or progressive. Hardly.
But we have a forum section for politics…
Thank you for the post.
To clarify, I think anyone who is being honest will admit to making some less than wise decisions. I wrote the book on stupid decisions in my 20’s, back in my drinking days.
I think we all deserve to have the *freedom* to make both good and not-so smart decisions. We live and learn.
Just because a diagnosis was made, you didn’t automatically get robbed of your intellect and individual goals.
Or your *worth* as a human being.
(Just thought it might be nice to hear it… from a fellow human being).
This is such a no-brainer.
Frances sees his own beloved profession biting off more than it can chew; so he issues a warning, in hopes psychiatry doesn’t choke to death, due to its own insatiable appetite to label, drug and control others.
The DSM-V posed a threat to its survival.
So Frances spoke up, so psychiatry could continue being able to exercise its monopoly on the 5% of the population, who have historically had little or *no* say in the “treatment” they get (namely, those labeled as ‘bipolar’ or ‘schizophrenic’); along with a few other groups, ie ‘major depressive disorder’ – people conventional docs are hesitant to treat.
Biting off too much (insisting that 20-25% of the population has a ‘mental illness’) threatens to expose psychiatry as the *myth* that it is…. Frances knows this…
I could go on and on… but so could *anyone* paying attention, so I won’t.
What I will say is this:
If psychiatrists truly want to help, the could begin by getting well-versed on how to assist people in getting *off* psychiatric drugs (the very ones they routinely prescribe).
From Dr. Peter Breggin –
“Nothing in the field of mental health will do more good and reduce more harm than encouraging withdrawal from psychiatric drugs. The time is past when the focus in mental health was on what drugs to take for what disorders. Now we need to focus on how to stop taking psychiatric drugs and to replace them with more person-centered, empathic approaches. The goal is no longer drug maintenance and stagnation; the goal is recovery and achieving well-being…”
“… It’s time for therapists—psychologists, nurses, social workers, family therapists, and counselors—to stop pushing their clients and patients to take psychiatric drugs that cause brain damage, harm the body, and shorten their patients’ lives. In Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal, therapists will learn about psychiatric drugs to actively participate with patients and families in the medication decision-making process.” – From Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal: A Guide for Prescribers, Therapists, Patients and Families by Peter Breggin, MD
From the International Society of Ethical Psychology and Psychiatry –
“If you chose to take psychiatric drugs you are at risk of becoming dependent on them. You can also experience very distressing withdrawal symptoms when you stop taking them. This can make you feel trapped into taking then indefinitely. But you can stop. Tell the physician who prescribed them that you want to stop and ask for instructions on how to slowly reduce the dosage over time so your body can regain its natural functioning.
This site has some good resources as well:
Any shrink who is *serious* about helping should get serious about helping people get off these drugs. Otherwise, get out of the way.
Rather than try to draw the larger portions of the left and right sides of the bell curve together, it seems to me it would make more sense to simply tell people the truth:
“Side effects’ is a drug company marketing term to imply a minor problem. In reality, these effect are main effects and serious. Despite the names given to these drugs, such as anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, and anti-psychotic, they are not smart bombs that attack depression, anxiety, or psychosis. They have a shotgun effect on your entire body, not just your brain. How they specifically work is not known to medical science. That is why they have many bad effects. These effects range from the minor (headache, dizziness, tingling), to the moderate (sexual problems, confusion, trouble sleeping), to the severe (brain damage, diabetes, suicide). When multiple drugs are prescribed, the danger becomes even worse.” – International Society for Ethical Psychology and Psychiatry (ISEPP) –
” In the long run, all psychiatric drugs tend to disrupt the normal processes of feeling and thinking, rendering the individual less able to deal effectively with personal problems and with life’s challenges. They worsen the individual’s overall mental condition and produce potentially irreversible harm to the brain.” – Peter Breggin, MD
As down as I am on conventional shrinks, I wouldn’t want for a moment to see adults lose their right to make their own medical decisions.
I think, if an adult is fully informed, they should be able to make these decisions. Even when they do not appear to be very wise decisions (some would call them ‘stupid’ decisions).
I don’t look toward any MIA writer/reader to get “approval” for my own medical decisions. In short, I could care less about any writer/reader’s opinion about the “safety” of taking benzodiazepines for a couple of days.
I think, for instance that neuroleptics ought to be used as an absolute last resort, for extremely short periods of time. And that a person who has signed an advanced directive, against taking neuroleptics deserves to have it honored.
If the mental health community and judicial system want to argue this point, then the person with the “mental illness” has a right to a trial, with representation from a LAWYER (not a social worker).
This is an area where a large part of the bell curve gets it wrong.
And I see no room for compromise, unlike many of those in the larger parts of the bell curve, ie conventional shrinks and NAMI mommies.
I’ll stick with Breggin and ISEPP. Both are pushing for *fully* informed consent. We don’t have such consent at the present time. We have an (almost) monopoly, where “treatment” (conventional variety, with labels, drugs, ECT, and lockdowns) are anything but therapeutic. And this treatment, although not always done by force, is often done with deception.
I don’t care to see our community reach out to Frances or any other person in the status quo. I want to see the conventional system replaced (not reformed). So I suppose you could place me in the ‘extreme’ category. IMO, extreme conditions call for extreme solutions.
Francis is worried about the death of his own profession.
I appreciate what you do and the time you obviously put into making people aware of various issues. But you really get this one wrong, on several counts:
You put ‘anti-med’ (it would seem ‘anti-psychiatry’ would also pertain) in the same league as pro-force, (just different ends of the ‘extreme’ spectrum), by insisting that both sides are lying about the science.
Really? When has Dr. Peter Breggin or ISEPP lied about science?
It seems to me that consent has been tried, and has fallen short, because lives keep getting ruined. FULLY informed consent is what is needed.
And compromising about the use of force has no place in any type of dialogue with those in the meddle of the bell curve; because ending the use of force does not need to be decided by popular vote, or referendum, or a platform with NAMI or DBSA.
That subject has already been addressed in the Constitution. We just need to make sure it gets respected, even if it means bringing some law suits against many of those at the far end (force advocates) along with those who support force in the MIDDLE of the bell curve (ie, leadership of NAMI mommies).
You make some very good points.
IMO, psychiatry is not ready for prime time. The brain is far too complex to arbitrarily attempt to drug someone to health. The attempt being made by shrinks is subjective guesswork:
“The average human brain has about 100 billion neurons (or nerve cells) and many more neuroglia (or glial cells) which serve to support and protect the neurons (although see the end of this page for more information on glial cells). Each neuron may be connected to up to 10,000 other neurons, passing signals to each other via as many as 1,000 trillion synaptic connections, equivalent by some estimates to a computer with a 1 trillion bit per second processor.” – From Memory and the Brain –
IMO, it’s also absurd to assume any profession has earned a monopoly on how the human psyche heals. We are (again) far too complex to make any preconceived notions about what single method may work; much less, assume that it is the only method that will.
I think you are saying the same thing.
I think what I’m trying to say here is that we do not need to try to join the two extremes of the bell curve as Francis suggests.
In fact, we ought to be grateful for the very few on the anti-med curve, such as Dr. Peter Breggin – who has done more these past 60 years than any other human being alive. –
Thank you for the blog post, and your comments.
And B, Alex, Stephen as well.
All of this really gets absurd.
A person goes to a psychiatrist, and any possible underlying physical condition which may be the root cause is never investigated, or it’s ignored. A “diagnosis” is determined by a using a system checklist – ending in a diagnosis of a lifelong, incurable brain disease. Next come the mind-altering drugs. Brilliant, just brilliant.
Psychologists, social workers, and other “mental health professionals” insist they can do better… and the end result is very often a personality disorder diagnosis of some kind… which these professionals insist means long-term “treatment”…. talking, talking some more, talking until a person is blue in the face.
Talking is the key to overcoming trauma? Says who?
What if there are a multitude of ways to overcome trauma? It seems to me we have several millennium of human history to show that human beings are quite capable of reconnecting to themselves and communities, in a variety of ways after traumas – natural disasters, wars, plagues, death of young children, to name a few.
Sometimes it means *not talking* – especially, when a past experience has been talked about enough… sometimes, *once* gets the job done – with a close friend, counselor, member of the clergy.
If seeing a therapist works, great. But, IMO, there are no real “experts” out there. There are good listeners, people who truly care, good friends… but no “experts”.
There is a spiritual component to all of this, IMO… an inner Spirit that guides us. One that insists we are not only *okay* – we are much *more*… We are designed to heal, overcome, thrive… move through, beyond our temporal pain.. designed to learn how to more deeply love ourselves, and each other.
They’re not meds, they’re drugs.
It’s not a religion, it’s a legitimate concern.
Thank you for the work you and others did at Vatican in the summer of 2013.
(Pontifical Council for Health Care Ministry – The Child as a Person and as a Patient: Therapeutic Approaches Compared).
As a Catholic, and a dad, this was an event I had prayed for (for years):
I am so grateful for all that you did to bring awareness to not only the Catholic Church, but people of *all faiths*, by this event.
typo – *cannot* take credit
A beautiful piece !
I believe that love, in the purest and most perfect sense casts out fear.
And this reminder to myself (sometimes moment-by-moment) has helped me overcome past traumas, the “demons” in y life.
It is, IMHO, the essence of faith. A gift from a higher source. One for which I am grateful for, but can take credit.
If I’m not back soon, or if i never come back, it’s because I value peace of mind over this nonsense.
I recently took several months away from this site.
It was good for my sanity.
I’m gonna take several more.
I’m growing tired of being part of a FRINGE GROUP that is going nowhere!
Re: “… people of a different political persuasion”
These are the ones who need not apply?
Is that it?
And the ones may apply…. Let me guess, progressives?
Yeah, you progressives have made so much freakin’ progress, Frank!
You don’t want any conservatives, libertarians or other people who are not like-minded…. Sounds like the very prejudice you scream you’re against.
Actually, it sounds like a fringe group, of a half dozen like-minded folks ,with too much time on their hands!
I’m very grateful you’re both here, as part of the MIA community.
I find it fascinating that many of the folks who are justifiably angry at psychiatry for a one-size-fits-all approach – with psychiatric drugs, are the same ones who are convinced that all suffering comes from trauma… referring to nutrients and supplementation as bogus, while they embrace their new one-size-fits-all approach, namely overcoming trauma… Go figure.
I also feel that many false assumptions are being made, and we are spreading ourselves way too thin.
I’m as guilty as anyone for getting too deep into politics with this blog post (and another recent one as well). I felt like I needed to counter some of these false assumptions being made about those of us who do not fit into a certain political box.
And so I fought back a bit, to have my voice heard, along with sending a reminder that others in my political minority (a definite ‘minority’ on this site) have a right to be heard as well. But I don’t see how continuing to do so will make us a stronger group, or bring us closer to the mission of replacing the current psychiatric paradigm with one that allows for freedom to refuse treatment; one that offers safer, more effective options.
We’re getting diverted by politics. I’ve made the suggestion of using forums, and set a couple up, hoping some people would join in. No such luck. I think if the political in-fighting continues, this may be the wrong site for me. And I can’t help but think there are others who feel the same way.
Re: “… psychiatric oppression to the system and the economy, i.e. to capitalism and imperialism.”
1) Are you not aware that the work of Senator Charles Grassley involved investigation of fraudulent research with *tax dollars* and many publicly-funded universities?
2) Can you not see that the FDA is as much a criminal partner as the drug makers?
3) Is it not the *states* and judges who have enforcement capability when it comes to incarceration, forced drugging?
Sure, the drug makers are crooks… but you’re ignoring a lot of damage caused by government!
You’ve yet to define that, as I recall.
You mean, like Japan ‘s invasion of China…
The rape of Nanking.
Oh, you meant western Imperialism….
Of course, all evil begins in the west, especially in the US, right?
Re: “… neo-fascist caucus attempting to promote racism and national chauvinism.”
Where do you come up with this stuff ?
Are you inferring that those who do not see eye-to-eye with your political views are somehow neo-fascists, racists ? Are you just assuming that there will be these types ?
As far as any kind of national movement, we are NOT ready for prime-time !
I wouldn’t want to be in a room for five minutes with a group ready to start slinging names like the ones you just did !
Fair enough, Ron.
Now that I’ve taken more time to calmly look at what you wrote, I can see how I was reading too much into what you were saying. My apologies.
Feel better, Frank?
A forum is set up:
Re: ” would point out that what will happen in the future as a result of human activity will be a physical reality, not a thing that can be compartmentalized into only the world of politics.”
You’re assuming that global warming is man-made, and a physical reality. There is not the science to back this up. Over 1,000 international scientists dissent:
And some of us care deeply about conservation, and see environmentalism as a political power grab like none other. Taxes (fines) on power production will be passed on to consumers, and the poorest people will be hit the hardest.
Also, an enormous part of the energy grid is fossil fuels (especially coal for electric). To attempt to replace this too quickly will have a devastating effect on the economy. One that is already in dire straights… This will lead to more job loss, more dependency on government… which leads to more debt…. Debt that threatens to *enslave* future generations – children and grandchildren – in an ABUSIVE way!
In short, global warming is much more complicated than David or you would like to present it. And people who disagree with your simple assessment are not supporters of child abuse. In fact, we are also concerned about child abuse.
People who disagree with the left’s global warming agenda are similar to child abusers? Thank you Ron, for pointing out just how *disgusting* this can all get!
P.S.: We have a forum section on this site.
To clarify, I was not suggesting that you made the statement about the bible. It was said by someone else a few days ago.
The point was that I do not see how theological arguments are going to make people feel comfortable coming to this site. A paradigm shift in mental health care, or a free-for-all, knock-down, drag-out on religion and politics ?
I’ve suggested using the Forums, only to be accused of wanting to limit other people’s expression. Oh well, I give up.
I think they’re many assumptions being made; not only on this site, but on others as well. A news flash:
1) Not everyone is overjoyed with the term ‘Mad Movement’… many people simply want to taper off psychiatric drugs, and begin to feel good again. Others don’t associate their journey as one of ‘madness’… they want to overcome trauma. Others want to address the underlying root causes of their “mental illness,” so they can go back to work; raise a family…
2) Not everyone in this ‘movement’ (if we even have a movement… I don’t really see one, most of the time) considers themselves to be politically on the left, a liberal, or progressive. Some are anything but. There are conservatives and libertarians out there who feel as passionately about the legal side of this than anyone else. Szasz, Breggin. Enough said. In fact, there are many on the right who see an over-reaching, large, bureaucratic government as part of the problem, not the solution.
3) Politics need to be discussed in the Political Forum section, IMO. I come to this site, because it’s the best place to find current information on what’s happening in the mental health arena…. The latest news and findings. I don’t come here to debate global warming or politics. I can watch Rachel Maddow for politics. Or not.
4) And if this were not enough, you brought up religion. Now we all get to hear how the bible was written in a language nobody understood for 1,400 years, which is why the Christian faith survived. And we can all have a ‘mad’ argument about that. Or not.
And hopefully one day, constitutional rights will no longer be ignored, allowing for trials for civil rights violations. And for criminal charges as well…
We talk quite a bit about forced treatment on this site.
I think that any psychiatrist who locks someone up or prescribes psychiatric drugs by force, without *first* ruling out such things as: traumatic brain injury; use of illicit drugs; prescription, otc drug interaction; sleep deprivation, and others… as a bare minimum, should be taken to civil court, where the person harmed can take away their vacation property, luxury automobiles, jewelry, and empty their bank account of expendable income.
That outta put a stop to a lot of this stuff. I guess that makes me ‘critical’ of psychiatry.
Why do we need to have *doctors* addressing emotional distress?
Aren’t there counselor, therapists who can do that?
Some (including myself) would argue that clergy, peers, friends have a huge role to play.
As does community involvement, and many other*real life* ‘therapies’.
But medical doctors?
I can see their role in looking for underlying causes of what is mis-labeled as “mental illness”:
But psychiatrists are not needed to do so.
In fact, their bias toward “mental illnesses” only causes more harm than good.
The *overwhelming* majority of psychiatrists are *utterly* useless, IMO.
Especially in dealing with severe emotional distress.
Or a very *real* underlying medical condition.
They don’t have the training that many others have.
It’s much safer to seek help elsewhere.
We make this stuff so complicated.
Re: “David Moyer, LCSW is an example of a fine, caring person.”
As a former member of Safe Harbor’s Integrative Psychiatry (alternative mental health), I wholeheartedly concur!
Orotate and Aspartate difference explained in link below (response to Oldhead).
Lithium occurs naturally in deep well water.
I have taken it for years, with no problems.
In fact, it helps my overall well-being – from the combination of lithium and other minerals. See numbers 3 and 4 below:
I do not think the government needs to add lithium to our water.
But I also hope that some of us who study this stuff remain FREE to make our own decisions.
The key to safety and well-being with the mineral lithium is:
Take it in TRACE amounts by water or SMALL amounts in Orotate/Aspartate form, and avoid the psychiatric prescription Carbonate from of 900-1,200.
More on nutrition:
And that’s not all… It takes out the thyroid and the kidney for many folks….
When taken in conventional psychiatric doses of 900 – 1,200 mg per day.
In SMALL doses at 5-20 mg per day (no more than 100), this naturally occurring mineral seems to show benefit – particularly with alcoholism, emotional health, ie, anxiety, depression, moods. Most recently, studies indicate benefits for alzheimers.
I’ve been taking small amounts for 6 years, with no side effects, other than better overall well-being.
Duane Sherry, MS, Retired Counselor
A different take on lithium – a mineral with beneficial qualities, when taken in reasonable, SMALL doses:
Re: “NICE missed its opportunity to take a more critical view of the evidence, and stem the diagnostic creep that is spreading drugs that are certainly toxic, and probably ineffective, to ever greater sections of the population.”
Maybe a name change is in order:
‘Not so NICE.’
To clarify, people who have been on psych drugs are in a tough spot. Withdrawal is not for everyone. It is painful; can be life-threatening….
All the more reason to present people with the FACTS –
BEFORE they begin taking psychiatric drugs.
This approach may be unpopular; politically incorrect; painful for many… but a lot of times the TRUTH is hard to face…. but oftentimes SAVES LIVES!
IMO, it all comes down to FULLY informed consent.
If a person is given ALL the facts, including those that show the long-term use of psychiatric drugs cause brain injury and impede recovery; then sure, an ADULT should have the right to take legal psychotropic drugs for their emotional pains.
But none of this negates the FACT that these drugs DISABLE the brain:
In short, the facts are the facts… they cannot be sugar-coated.
All people are created equal, and have an equal right to make their own decisions.
But not all decisions are equal.
They really aren’t.
We all, at various times in our lives make stupid decisions.
To take brain disabling drugs or to not take brain disabling drugs?
Political correctness is not going to help anyone.
Oops, I almost forgot:
Where are all the ‘saved lives’?!
They’re hard to find amongst all the bodies!
1 in 10 people in the US on “antidepressants” and the suicide rates are increasing for adults in many different age groups:
Teen suicide is also on the rise:
We’ve tried algorithms here in Texas (at least for medications), TMAP was an absolute failure, and a crime.
Drugs have failed, especially with youth.
All this high-tech b.s. has failed, and so what do we do?
We keep trying the same old stuff… again and again, hoping for different results.
Sounds pretty insane, if you asked me.
Welcome to MiA.
Talk about an interesting person, who has some fascinating stories to share!
… Judging from your MiA Bio, you’ve got some things to write about:
“The Alchemy of Trauma: Meaghan Buisson is a 47-time Canadian National Champion, 11-time international medallist and current world record holder in the sport of inline speed skater. She graduated with distinction from Thompson Rivers University in Canada, majoring in Biological and Life Sciences with a Directed Studies specialization in evidence-based medicine. Her capstone project juxtaposed neuroscience research against front-line use of antidepressants to treat depression. She was the founder and Executive Director of “BodyWhys Youth Canada”, an award-winning national charity focused on the prevention of eating disorders and self-harm in youth. Meaghan has presented at international conferences and spoken nation-wide as both an educator and individual struggling with traumatic brain injury and psychiatric turmoil. In 2014, Meaghan backpacked solo across Central America, working with Traditional Amazonian plant medicine, sitting with Indigenous healers and planning the next chapter of her life:
“Sitting still, I am learning to move again, while discovering there is much that moves me still. Amusing myself in / doctors’ appointment speaking / only in haiku. Seeing if they notice. Spontaneous dissertations. Meditations. Mountains. Marathons. Standing barefoot under the moon in a foreign country, exhausted yet awestruck by how my life can seem to be falling apart, yet simultaneously perfect. In the alchemy of trauma, vulnerability becomes strength. Consciousness and health come from within. May we all wake to our Essence.”
I look forward to reading more of your work, your stories!
Algorithms will predict suicides… and then what exactly will prevent them?
I thought we already tried that.
Well, some kind of magic, I’m sure.
Forget about good relationships.
Kids need more computer algorithms, more magic.
IMO, the American people might be better off with no FDA, rather than one that merely goes through the motions, while pretending drugs have been tested to assure they are safe. This gives the public a false sense of drug safety…. arguably, a more dangerous place.
In any event, Congress needs to make sure the FDA is doing their job.
Dr. Graham described the problem a few years back described the problem – as not only with Pharma, but also the FDA:
“As currently configured, the FDA is not able to adequately protect the American public. It’s more interested in protecting the interests of industry. It views industry as its client, and the client is someone whose interest you represent. Unfortunately, that is the way the FDA is currently structured. Within the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research about 80 percent of the resources are geared towards the approval of new drugs and 20 percent is for everything else. Drug safety is about five percent. The ‘gorilla in the living room’ is new drugs and approval. Congress has not only created that structure, they have also worsened that structure through the PDUFA, the Prescription Drug User Fee Act, by which drug companies pay money to the FDA so they will review and approve its drug. So you have that conflict as well….”
@ Steve McCrea,
@ Someone Else,
Good points !
As you know, many of us greatly appreciate you. I certainly do, although we don’t always agree.
IMO, one of the most dangerous aspects of psychiatry (and the doctors who practice it) is the idea that they must do SOMETHING…
And I think what I have tried to say for years on this site is that it’s better to do NOTHING than to cause more harm than good. Really. I’m serious. Serious as a heart attack.
What happens if psychiatrists begin to do NOTHING. I think you would see natural recovery rates go up – simply by providing shelter, nutrition and non-professional emotional support, and psychiatrists stepping out of the way.
You openly admit to not having all the answers, which ironically places you in a position to help. Your colleagues…. not so much.
The ‘MIA ghetto’?
Maybe you’re piggy-backing off the Warsaw ghetto comment started earlier by a reader of another post… not sure what an MIA forum has to do with a ghetto?
I’m sure you’ll explain the strong connection.
And maybe you need to spend some time examining why you assume they are all closely connected.
Hell, we’re sending each other links about the science behind global warming, for crying out loud. IMI, this has not a freakin’ thing to do with psychiatry, mental wellness, etc!
Disagree. Fine. Do whatever you want.
I could give a rat’s rear end.
The term ‘litmus test’ was an expression of frustration. The introduction of the topic of Warsaw actually came up from another reader in Laura Kerr’s most recent blog post. Other blog posts have taken similar twists and turns, until we end up getting in heated discussions (mostly politics) that have very little or *nothing* to do with the original post.
Former MIA site moderator, Matthew Cohen was constantly reaching out to remind people of the Forum section. I don’t think he was trying to dictate what people should say, but rather *where* they should say it. My point is that we have forums to discuss various issues in much greater detail, including political, that do not hijack the blog author’s post.
Calmly and gently.
Move and talk slowly.
There’s no rush.
Nobody is going to become more ‘psychotic’ because you’re acting in a calm manner.
Put the doctor title away, forget about what you were taught in medical school, and treat the person ‘gently’.
If this sounds like something a non-medical person could do… it’s because it is!
It’s called common sense and treating someone as we would like to be treated.
There is a time and place to discuss communist involvement (lack thereof) in fighting Nazis in the Warsaw ghetto. But this ain’t the place.
Yeah, it’s not as though we’ve made such huge strides with replacing the mental health system that we have time to spend tackling all kinds of other issues.
I wonder if the goal of some is to cheer on the fall of capitalism, with the downfall of psychiatry as a secondary gain; and no idea with how to replace either…
Not a well-thought out plan. And something IMO that needs to be discussed in the POLITICAL FORUM section of this site… so some of us can talk about replacing psychiatry.
I hope this isn’t a political litmus test.
If so, I fail.
When’s the next litmus test?
I’d like to see if I fail that one too.
correction, more than 1,000 scientists
Senate report indicates 1,000 international scientists dissent:
And here we go again.
What does this have to do with psychiatry, mental health system transformation, etc?
I really wish these topics would be discussed in the forum section. David’s topic was global warming, but oftentimes, the topic of the blog author gets hijacked…. and the *political* discussion that follows has nothing to do with the original subject. (Again, not the case this time).
The science is split on this issue.
I consider myself a conservationist, not an environmentalist. I think energy policy needs to be reviewed and some steps taken, but I’m for taking a pragmatic look at all of this.
A large part of the energy grid is reliant on coal. If you make changes too quickly, it becomes unaffordable for people to heat their homes this winter. Some, especially elderly people have their health (and lives) threatened.
In short, I’m out.
fist to cuff (an old slang for a fist fight)
And if you go into a dance hall, and you buy plenty of Jack Daniels…
Give someone shot glass after shot glass…
enough to really get them nice and liquored-up, you’ll find that he’s not afraid to go fist to cuff with anyone in the bar.
And the point is?
P.S.: Where do these researchers come from?
Her name is Maria Bradshaw and her son would be alive today, had it not been for psychiatric drugs.
Or to use your words: THOSE DRUGS COST HER SON’S LIFE! She’s hardly alone by the way.
You really would do well to ‘stop generalizing’ long enough to read some of her work:
A writer on this site lost her son to suicide, due to psychiatric drugs:
And we’re on the same page when it comes to neuroplasticity.
To the best of my knowledge, neurotransmission cannot be measured inside a person’s brain. That’s all I was saying.
I completely agree with you about throwing drugs at the problem, which was at the heart of what I was trying to say.
Or, as Joe Biden would ask, “What’s the price of tea in the Orient.” Ha!
I don’t know oldhead.
What’s the price of tea in China?
Now we’ve moved into talking about economics.
I wish for once we could, as a group – focus (like a laser beam) on making changes where there is plenty of passion and the potential for a collaborative effort – on protecting rights for people who have been abused by psychiatry; protecting others before they are abused.
Or we could talk about corporate tax rates, unemployment, and get nowhere… I thought we had a forum for politics.
There are plenty of people who have been so gravely injured by psychiatric “treatment” that they cannot work…. Whether it be the trauma from incarcerations, or the injury caused to the brain and body by psychiatric drugs.
Also, there are a number of veterans who have traumatic brain injury and post-traumatic stress from numerous tours of duty.
So, I would be hesitant to say they are not “disabled.” If a person can no longer work, or if they are in an emotional spot where they can barely function, they are disabled.
And I happen to think America could take a lead here.
Our opponents never stop moving.
There a literally millions of people who have been injured by psychiatry and psychiatric drugs and other forms of “treatment.”
Children and their parents
Military veterans and their families
College students and young people
Just to name a few.
If we build it, they will come.
We need to *begin* to put something on paper…..
To search for someone in the House who will sponsor such a bill.
If we fail on the first effort, we will be more prepared on the second, or third.
But we need to begin to MOVE.
That’s why these efforts are called MOVEMENTS.
Psychiatry, and the mental health system at large seem to have no respect for homeostasis:
“a state of equilibrium, as in an organism or cell, maintained by self-regulating processes”
There’s an attempt by psychiatrists to jump in, and fix someone… oftentimes, ending in disaster.
I have no problem with the term ‘chemical imbalance’, because I think it’s quite possible that the brain of someone in acute emotional crisis could have such a temporary imbalance. It cannot be proven, nor dis-proven.
My problem is with the chemical fix. To quote Dr. Joseph Mercola, it’s “like trying to kill a mosquito with a cannonball.” It doesn’t allow for homeostasis to naturally take place. And the long-term use of psych drugs injures the brain, rendering the person involved disabled.
The point i’ve been trying to make on MIA for years is this:
1. The constitution continues to be circumvented by the mental health system
2. Ours is a defensive position – ie, rallying to stop the Murphy bill
3. We exhaust ourselves at the state level, fighting bills that are unconstitutional
4. We have ‘coffee talk’ – we ‘talk amongst ourselves’
5. Nothing changes – we go nowhere, and we get there fast
Why can’t we take the same level of energy and change the law, by drafting our own piece of federal legislation? If we don’t have the resources, we could start by having the ADA amended – in such a way that people who have been diagnosed are protected – least restrictive, least intrusive, and most therapeutic options of many types, chosen by the individual, protected by federal law (versus the traumatizing, dehumanizing, and life-threatening protocols that are status quo).
My two cents.
I appreciate the work of Tina Minkowitz.
She calls on the UN to recognize the rights of people with ‘disabilities’ if not mistaken (a concept you appeared opposed to earlier in the thread).
The problem is enforcement.
Who enforced UN treaties?
The dictators at the round table?
The boys in baby blue helmets?
The US needs to lead.
It’s been a while.
Typo: How do we repeal mental health law without legislation?
I’m all ears.
“How do repeal mental health law without legislation?
Protests? Yeah, that’s been doing a lot of good. Look at all the mental health courts that have shut down business due to protests. Judges saying, “I’m outta here… Those protesters are too much to handle… all 15 of them.”
What about a focus on amending the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) – making sure that the least restrictive clause begins to be applied to people who’ve been given psychiatric diagnoses.
This would be an “alternative” to the alternative conference… A group of folks coming together to change federal law (by amending the ADA), to protect people from from psychiatric force – incarceration, drugs, ECT, and all other forms of harm.
Correction: Drug Enforcement Administration (not Agency)
The DEA link above doesn’t seem to want to open.
Let’s try it again:
From the Drug Enforcement Agency:
“There is no diagnostic test that can confirm an ADHD diagnosis.”…
… “Biochemically, methylphenidate enhances the release and blocks the reuptake of dopamine (DA) and norepinephrine (NE) in mammalian brain. Pharmacologically methylphenidate is most closely related to cocaine. In human subjects, methylphenidate binds to the same receptor sites as cocaine in the brain and produces effects that are indistinguishable from cocaine.”
More from the DEA here:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news.
The story of ‘Shoeless’ Joe Jackson:
After the White Sox lost the 1919 World Series to the Cincinnati Reds, Jackson and several other White Sox players were accused of accepting cash to throw the Series.
A grand jury was convened to investigate… Jackson left the criminal court building, and found a bunch of kids waiting for him…
One yelled out, “Say it ain’t so.”
Shoeless Joe responded sadly, “Yes kid, I’m afraid it is.”
Psychiatric drug withdrawal resources and communities here:
Congress shall pass no law…
My apologies for using the term ‘part Cherokee’ earlier in the thread, rather than ‘mixed-blood’ Cherokee.
Thank you for your work.
No telling what would happen with some sunshine and exercise.
And of course, there would be a 100% reduction if the seclusion rooms were used for music, art, reading… restraints thrown in the dumpster.
I find it outrageous that prominent, powerful and influential “leaders” in conventional psychiatry (whose expertise is supposed to be in understanding the human experience) have such little respect for the cultures and traditions of others.
From E. Fuller Torrey, MD:
“The Cheyenne River Sioux tribe in South Dakota, for example, receives $249,540 per year for what they call the “Restoring the Balance Project” to implement mental health services that take into consideration the “unique history and culture of the Cheyenne River Sioux tribe.” How a Sioux child with a serious mental illness differs from other American children with these diseases is unclear… ”
In the rest of the article, Dr. Torrey exercises an equal opportunity assault on anyone he doesn’t understand or appreciate:
It’s an uphill climb, to say the least. Not only for indigenous people, but for anyone who does not fit into the box psychiatry has determined to be “normal” – culturally mainstream.
“Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see.” – Mark Twain
Translation: “Hey fox, guard the hen house.”
Emphasis on ‘illegitimate’.
It has no real legal authority.
Healing, social control, or both?
More like: Grave injury, illegitimate law enforcement, or both.
“be cautious when prescribing to patients with a history of early death?”
“If you don’t know where you are going any road can take you there”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Thank you for your response.
Although I have no mix-blood roots from the indigenous people of this continent, my wife’s ancestry is Mestizo Indian from Mexico.
I really enjoyed your website.
I’m anxious to read more of your work.
I spent some time on your website, and read your profile on this site:
“David Edward Walker, Ph.D. is a Missouri Cherokee psychologist, researcher, writer, and musician. He’s consulted for many years with the 14 Confederated Tribes and Bands of Yakama Nation… ”
I am confused with the description – “Missouri Cherokee psychologist”
Are you part Cherokee?
Recovery begins with non-compliance.
How much do any of us know about our own thoughts, feelings, actions… much les those of other human beings?
Maybe if the mental health “experts” got out of the way, we’d see some real healing begin…
Equals. We human beings are equals. Look what happens when we attempt to see things otherwise….
Unhealthy power struggles, and dangerous results…
*Real* hope for vets suffering from post-traumatic stress:
Thanks for being part of our group.
Some links to help find a counselor/therapist in your area:
Actually, the scheme I painted would take the math in the other direction – more parents, fewer kids.
I wonder if some of the ‘parents’ are step-moms and step-dads?
Soccer games have between 3-4 ‘parents’ for many of the kids on the field.
Newest war tactic?
Forget about creating a coalition to take on ISIS.
Forget about ground troops.
Send in the neuroleptics!
typo 2: massive curtailment (not ‘con’)
typo: due process
Thanks for this, Jim.
And for all you do.
If memory serves, it was the U.S. Supreme Court that also ruled that forced psychiatric imprisonment is a “massive curtailment of liberty.”
My question for any/all shrinks who continue to think they can lock someone up without due is simple:
What is it about massive con is it that you don’t understand?
And if you think it’s a “therapeutic” thing to lock someone up like a dog in a kennel…
Grace Jackson, MD describes how these three amendments pertain to the “right to refuse” treatment:
See: 1st, 8th, 14th Amendments.
It ain’t rocket science.
Is Assisted (Forced) Outpatient Commitment *illegal*?
I don’t know… Is the Pope Catholic? –
Godspeed to these brave souls in California!
Bonnie and Julia,
We got off topic with this post. But I would just like to say there are many of us on MIA who greatly appreciate your research – all your hard work and dedication – to finding out more about nutrition and its healing benefits.
The bull ride sounds like a thrill !
I always enjoy your writing – full of optimism and hope.
As a parent, this is one of the most frightening things imaginable. I simply cannot believe this is taking place in our country. It’s as if the Constitution has been trashed.
Thank you for making others aware.
Long answer: hell no.
I’ve been going to rodeos ever since I was a kid. Been on a few wild horses (one blew my left elbow apart), but never a bull… I watch bull riding… keyword ‘watch’… as in, from a distance.
I especially enjoy barell racing, along with going to cutting horse competitions in nearby Fort Worth.
You might be interested to know that we had a guy named Kinky Friedman run for governor here in Texas a while back. We call him the Jewish Cowboy:
Oops, off topic. Better let some others get back to subject at hand.
Good to be back.
How cool is that !
Dr. Pies is the master of spin.
In fact, it sounds like he thinks he could spin straw into gold.
A comment to Dr Pies:
This is science:
This is not:
I dropped off this site for a few months… Didn’t think I’d be back.
You said I would; you were right.
As you know, I appreciate healing; and the many forms of medicine that create the right mixture for it to take place; including spirituality.
You mentioned a while back that you worked with cowboys in Israel… and I’ve often seen the way you respect His name, with the spelling: G-d. I’m not Jewish, but deeply admire Judaism.
In short, IMHO, anyone who appreciates cowboys and respects His holy name is okay by me. Thank you for being part of MIA; for all your contributions.
Apologies for all the typos.
You know *nothing* about me… *nothing* about the thousands of hours of researched I’ve done… you *suspect* far too much.
I’m having a pretty nice Sunday; not in the mood to argue (don’t find much substance in your side debate”… mostly blind hostility), and it’s exhausting.
If you find yourself in the position of being in an emotional crisis, facing forced outpatient “treatment” – you may want to refer the judge to this site, specifically, the work of Jim Gottstein, JD of PsychRights.
Back to today. Please respond to other readers. I’m out.
I’m comfortable knowing *why* I believe what I do. Other readers may wish to argue with you some more. I’m finished.
A good site for research on nutrition and integrative medicine is Vitasearch –
More links here –
Re: “As Tim Minchin says, there is no such thing as “alternative medicine.” If it worked, they’d call it medicine.”
They do call it ‘medicine’:
These practitioners all go to medical school, in fact osteopaths complete an extra year beyond conventional medical doctors (MD’s).
As far as nutrition, I recommend Andrew Saul, PhD’s site, ‘Doctor Yourself”.
Duane Sherry, M.S., Retired Counselor
I agree with you.
I’d like to take a moment to apologize to Richard and to fellow readers for my earlier comments on this thread. They were done in a moment of passion, but I should have refrained from the personal attacks. I hope you will accept my apologies.
I am going to take a much-needed break from this site. I wish you all the best.
Oh, and Richard, good luck with your Pink Panthers.
Uprising and fellow readers.
I’m taking an indefinite leave from MIA.
Frankly, we are going *nowhere*.
And we’re getting there “much too fast.”
I’m tired of the narrow-minded politics and the lack of diversity.
So is conservative bashing, from a group that *screams* for diversity.
Not of political thought, apparently. If Thomas Szasz were alive…. if Peter Breggin were commenting on this site, they would both be trashed.
There is a “my way or the highway” mentality that comes from the far left on this site.
And let me know if anyone is serious about getting this done:
I remain as “serious as a heart attack.”
What else can we do?
For some time, I have thought we need to work on getting federal legislation passed that would put an end to forced treatment and offer options other than drugs.
Because this idea has gone over like a lead-filled balloon, I’m going to work at the state level, with my friend John Breeding. The next Texas legislative session is a year away, but I plan on providing testimony again with proposed bills – state house and senate committees.
We tend to have several bills authored each session. The idea is to block bills that expand conventional treatment, especially those pertaining to children, in foster care, Medicaid and juvenile justice systems – to make sure they die in committee. At the same time encouraging passage of bills that expand alternative treatments.
I would encourage every reader to look into this – to see what it takes to sign up to testify in a public hearing in your state legislature.
A question awaits you and Richard in the forum, ‘All Things Political’:
What about forming a ‘Pink Panther’ group?
The old comedy series with French police detective, Inspector Jacques Clouseau conjures up a much less militant image.
Also, the pink ribbon campaign for cancer survivors has been well received… why not piggyback on success
Lastly, it has a far left (out of left field) feel to it… keeping with the politics of Lenin, Stalin, et al.
Just a thought.
For the sake of accuracy (your comment above):
Glenn Beck is a Mormon.
Jesus was a Jew, a Nazarene.
St. Nickolas (aka Santa Claus) was born in Patara (present-day Turkey)
And what does *any* of this have to do with anything?
Especially diversity of thought?
This doctor has done *more* in the past sixty years than any other human being. He is a peaceful man, who loves his country:
What’s wrong with his approach?
I appreciate all that Reverend King did in the Civil Rights movement, but the Black Panthers?
The Black Panthers *rejected* a non-violent approach:
“Black Panthers, U.S. African-American militant party, founded (1966) in Oakland, Calif., by Huey P. Newton and Bobby Seale. Originally aimed at armed self-defense against the local police, the party grew to espouse violent revolution as the only means of achieving black liberation. The Black Panthers called on African Americans to arm themselves for the liberation struggle. In the late 1960s party members became involved in a series of violent confrontations with the police (resulting in deaths on both sides) and in a series of court cases, some resulting from direct shoot-outs with the police and some from independent charges.”
And I’m sure you’re aware of their marxist philosophy, including the desire to abolish capitalism:
You’ve made your politics obvious on MIA. I hope you’re not condoning violence in the form exercised by the Black Panthers.
I am adamantly opposed to violence in this effort to create a new paradigm of care. I hope you are too. And if your idea is to create some form of marxist movement, you can count me out.
Very good points on both the pros and cons, Chaya.
You’re missing the point.
Pharma manufactures, fraudulently researches and markets these drugs…. but only the *government* can force people to buy these drugs (ie, Mediciaid) and force people to take these drugs (ie, mental health courts).
Until we become cognizant od the *fact* that a big, bloated government is a *major* part of this problem, we are stuck. Crushing capitalism is not the answer.
Well spoken words from a conservative.
What about the possibility of offering these services at no cost; with funding from donors of a non-profit organization?
Each person on staff could receive a salary from the agency, without having to ask for payment from those receiving services. Those who can afford to do so, and who like to do so could simply make a donation, but the lion’s share of the revenue could come from philanthropists, community fundraising, etc.
“… capture of government by monied interests… ” places *part* of the problem where it needs to be – on the *government*!
In fact, it builds the point I was trying to make. But this isn’t the forum…
‘Psychiatry Admits It’s Been Wrong in Big Ways, But can it Change?’
I like this answer:
“Psychiatry’s nature cannot be changed; it can only be constrained by public outrage.” – Peter R. Breggin, MD
All things political:
“Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven’t had capitalism.” –
I think he’s on to something.
We’ve had *crony* capitalism.
The government needs to regulate; especially certain industries, such as pharma. But the government *does not*; because it’s in the pocket of pharma. Pharma funds re-election campaigns, pays fees to have its drugs approved by the FDA. Pharma is a *client* of government.
The answer however, IMO, is *not* a bigger, bloated centralized bureaucracy. This tends to lead to a hill of skulls. We need to hold a *small* government accountable, and allow people to create alternatives to the status quo, one size fits all psychiatric system; but *not* turn the keys over to the same government that helped create this mess!
“The problem is socialism is socialism. The problem with capitalism is capitalists.” – Milton Friedman
Those words really touched me also.
A person can also claim *unpaid help* with the business. In other words, if a friend or family member helps, but is not paid for 20 hours per week; and it can be shown that the work would be worth $12 per hour, the claimant can reduce their income by $240 per week.
If someone wants to slowly come off the disability rolls, they can do so, by using 9 trial work months (over substantial gainful activity level). The SSA’s Ticket to Work Program has information on how to do so. Also, TakeCharge is a agency that can help you keep a portion of your benefits after returning to work, and coming off SSA benefits. This can amount to over $19,000 over 36 months. The program is not only above-board, but has the highest success of all SSA approved programs.
More info on SSA’s Ticket to Work, and TakeCharge here:
You’re a writer’s *writer*!
I am as *sick and tired* of pharma as anyone on this site.
But I’m waiting for the day to see a public outrage about the role *government* has played in all this mess.
Look closely at this case, for instance.
From “child protective” services to (kangaroo) mental health courts…
The *government* is a partner in all this crime.
I’m not willing to blame all of this on corporate America.
Corporations cannot take children away from parents; force people to take toxic drugs.
Only the *government* can use that type of force.
Fascism is a partnership of corporations and government.
And socialism can lead to totalitarianism.
It certainly has a long history of doing so.
Bashing corporations, without looking at how to take power away from bureaucrats will get us *nowhere*!
‘funding support’ from forbes would have been a better choice of words
Freedom Center received funds from Forbes.
Whole Foods might be interested, along with other ‘corporations’.
The biggest problem in my mind would be liability, along with status quo governmental agencies, with their bureaucrats, who don’t enjoy competition.
I have said for years that I think the timing is right for non-profit organizations to address this need. I think there would be philanthropists who would gladly donate money. Even corporate donors.
There are young people who have been placed on psychiatric drugs, who have wealthy family members who might be more than willing to contribute. Veterans organizations are searching for ways to help fellow vets; religious organizations as well.
This service would likely be seen as serving the public good for an IRS tax exemption. I would suspect there would need to be licensed doctors on the board of directors for liability reasons. It would take a bit of work, but salaries could be put in place for non-medical “coaches,” with lived experience.
I went to the park tonight, parked my vehicle and turned on some country music… to find some peace. I heard the words to a song that resonated in my soul… The words spoke of the pain so many of us endure, when we feel all-alone, misunderstood, different.
I hope these words bring some peace to a few MIA readers…. those who’ve been labeled, marginalized; those family members who feel all-alone in their struggle:
Blessings to every member of this community.
typo – ‘have’ such a deeply loving mother
She is obviously a brave woman. Her son is fortunate to gave such a deeply loving mother.
Another great post, Philip!
What is “schizophrenia?”
It depends who you ask.
A blood test with 83% accuracy?
Accuracy in determining ‘what’?
Tell us why marxism will set us free:
I’ll stick with the Constitution.
“… *deafening silence* of those who consider themselves liberals and progressives in the face of psychiatric totalitarianism… ”
You’re right about *that part*, anyway.
Re: your painting conservatives as “racist, anti-woman, homophobic”.
You’re way off.
Want to get rid of conservatives with this movement?
You’ll have to toss Peter Breggin under the bus, and a few on MIA under the bus also, including me.
Good luck with that.
From the article:
What gave her hope? “Hearing psychologists and Dr. Breggin talk about people that were much worse than Siddharta getting better off drugs.”
Thank you, Dr. Breggin and professionals who have spoken out, and given people *hope*!
Fox News reports today (March 3rd):
Hopefully, things will work smoothly with this.
Correction: Dr. Graham was a client of GAP.
We could use some more doctors like David Graham, M.D. of the Government Accountability Project:
Once again, it must be my black and white thinking.
Glad you were here to set me straight.
Oh, I forgot, we need to have a more *nuanced* approach….
Stop stripping people of their civil rights, pretty-please… We’d like to have a dialogue, pretty-please.
Re: “… but I think we will dialogue better with the mental health system and with the public in general if we understand that they often arise from that sense of an urgent need to restrain an immediate threat.”
An imminent threat to self/others?
This is *not* very common.
Being a pain in the butt to family and others; being seen as strange or bizarre… much more likely to be reasons people find themselves locked up/drugged down…
Dialoguing with the mental health community? Good luck with that. I’ll pass.
Using the analogy of fire:
Conventional treatment is like adding fuel (not water) to flame.
And it matters not what the fire chief (experts) have to say.
Locking someone up; drugging them into submission..
It’s *not* helpful.
It’s like adding *fuel* to a flame.
And, thank God for Peter Breggin, and the *few* like him!
“… doctors are simply using power plays like taking custody away from people so they don’t have to answer any questions. So instead of saving lives by this action as they claim, they are actually threatening them because now, people are scared to death to go to the hospital out of fear this will happen to them.”
I cannot *begin* to tell you how much I agree with you!
And Dr. Philip Hickey knocks another one outta the park!
All Things Political Forum:
“… The judge Monday had announced the possibility that Justina would be moving soon to a foster care and treatment center in Merrimac, but that facility backed out soon after Rev. Patrick Mahoney, of the Christian Defense Coalition based on Washington, D.C., announced that he was organizing a vigil at the center to protest Justina’s placement there.”
“Mahoney’s is one of several national conservative Christian groups that have taken up the Pelletier case, seeing it as an example of government trampling on parental rights.”
I have said for years that I think we need a *big* political tent to make a paradigm shift. This case os a prime example… It made a 180% turn – based on action taken by Glenn Beck, two Republican state representatives (MA), and several Christian groups.
I certainly think there is a role for people of *all* political leanings – including liberals, progressives, Democrats. But I’d also like to see more people with these views take a stronger stand. Ironically, many want to simply bash the right.
I agree. There’s nothing like dancing!
Our oldest no longer lives with us at hone, but our youngest plays either guitar or piano every night.
When our oldest comes to visit next, I’ll bring up your idea to the whole family. We’ll put something together, even if I have to pick up a pot or pan and a wooden spoon!
My sons are musicians.
Our oldest plays, trumpet, cello, piano and guitar. Our youngest, violin, flute, piano and guitar.
My wife sings like an angel.
I listen to all of them.
And love it.
My wife and I used to dance, pretty often.
We need to start again.
Thanks for the reminder!
I have *no doubt* that you’ll be successful with this.
You offer some *very* good points.
How cool is that!
I would challenge the field of psychiatry to find *any* individual whose mental health did not get affected from *24 days* without sleep!
Re: “… corticosteroid known to cause* insomnia*, anxiety, mania, aggression, and confusion) following minor surgery. He re-entered the hospital, where he did not sleep for 24 days and his health declined rapidly.”
The drug is known to cause *insomnia*… and this person went *24 days* without sleep after being placed on this drug.
A note to psychiatrists: It’s called *sleep deprivation*, not “mental illness!”
In a recent blog post, I made a comment that I didn”t think psychiatrists were “stupid” because stupid people don’t get through medical school and residency. I’d like to retract that statement if I might….
These s0-called doctors are not the sharpest tools in the shed!
From SAMHSA –
IMO, these make sense.
You’re right, Stephen.
They target children in poverty; “inner city” kids more than any others.
I agree, 100 percent!
In fact, I would take it a step further. Not only is there no science in psychiatry, there is no science in any of the fields that study human behavior. The reason is simple: Human behavior is *unpredictable*.
And this randomness applies across the board. For example, when we least expect it, any person can commit an act of random *kindness*, for reasons that no “expert” can ever fully explain.
Not sure what quote you are referring to, but this is one I like:
“Only the weak are cruel. Gentleness can only be expected from the strong.” – Leo Buscaglia
Psychiatry fails to show a “threat of imminent harm” every day.
It has been kidnapping people for years.
What happened to the Constitution?
“The American Academy of Pediatrics now endorses the idea that the diagnosis of A.D.H.D. can and should begin at age 4, before problems accumulate. In fact, Adderall and other stimulants are approved for treatment of attentional issues in children as young as 3.”
This same group then expresses “concern” about the “over-diagnosis” of ADHD?
They have no credibility to express “concern” for children.
They sold out to Pharma years ago.
Thank you for your comments.
And this is the problem I ran into with psychiatry. Psychiatrists and therapists claim all one’s thoughts, gut instincts, and dreams are “voices.” How sick, twisted and insane it was to deal with psychiatry.
I share your concern about psychiatry, and its dismissive nature. The idea that *all* ones thoughts, gut instincts and dreams are voices is reductionist. It reduces a human brain/mind, which IMO is so much more than neurotransmission; more than cognition.
IMO, we are *souls*, and the *soul* is full of relationship, spirit, faith hope, love.
Very well stated. I will also pray.
Send them an email. Thank them!
Dr. Terry Polevoy, the ‘quackwatcher” who went after Truehope supplements:
Dr. Stephen Barrett, of ‘Quackwatch’ :
If Dr. Barett looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck….
These are the two Massachusetts state reps behind this house resolution:
Jim Lyons :
Apparently, George Nostrand’s site is online:
We all have fears, and IMO, walking alongside each other is how to best get through the flames.
I find it helpful to look at it this way:
We *all* hear voices. Our conscience; memories from talks we had with others in our lives along the way; thinking quietly, we *all* often hear voices inside our heads.
Literally hear voices that don’t appear to be ours; that others cannot hear?
We *all* have dreams. We hear voices when we dream…. We also see all kinds of things, and experience a flood of emotions when we see/hear things in our sleep, with our eyes closed.
But when a person undergoes this experience during the day. with eyes wide-opened it can be frightening to others. I understand that… But, IMO, the *last* thing a person needs is to be frightened further, by picking up on the fear of those who are there to “help.”
I wonder sometimes if it could be made much simpler by asking these question: How would I like to be treated if I were undergoing a similar experience? What things would help me feel loved and protected during such an experience? This changes the ordeal to one where a person is given the opportunity to overcome the event (or series of events), and transform into a much stronger, empathetic, fully *human* being.
It’s my understanding that he took his site off the web. It was a useful resource, specifically, for vocational programs, etc.
Mmmm, how to get in touch…. I don’t want to make my email public (did so years ago, and was flooded with emails, followed by phone calls).
Please ask Kermit (from MIA) to give it to you; letting this comment serve as my approval…. would that work?
“The pen is mightier than the sword. ” I’ve always loved that quote.
For what it’s worth (maybe not much), swords don’t kill people. People kill people.
I hope your surgery goes well, AA.
It’s not the DSM-5 that’s the problem, it’s the shrinks behind it!
Or put another way, “Books don’t hurt people; people hurt people.”
‘Draconian justice’, indeed.
My thoughts and prayers are with this family,
“Tobacco Chiefs Say Cigarettes Aren’t Addictive” – NAMI’s been saying the same thing about psychiatric drugs for years!
Treatment Resistant = Drug has no benefit, which is blamed on the patient
Somatoform Disorders = Psychiatric drug causes grave harm, which is blamed on the patient
Whether the “treatment” is worthless; whether is causes severe injury, the final analysis is *always the same* – It’s the patient’s fault!
And shrinks wonder why they aren’t liked much …
How can psychiatry claim to help other people deal with their most challenging fears when it continues to hide from its own?
I always appreciate your blog posts. And as a fellow baby-boomer, especially this one. You wrote:
“… holistic strategies that can promote mental health are exercise (a proven modality for reducing depression), good nutrition, and finding a sense of purpose and meaning.”
I agree, 100 percent, especially in finding a sense of purpose and meaning.
it is still *our* country, by the way… for anyone interested in taking it back
mental health ‘parity’ was pushed for by years by nami
and it never took off
‘parity’ was put on a bail-out package, in the dark of the night
and ‘mental health parity’ will now expand, beyond recognition, with the new health care act…. pharma is due *big-time* payback money, like we’ve never seen.
good luck, america…
next time (if we have have a next time), we need to be much more careful with what we ask for…
I believe each of us has the *right* to determine what is in our best interests (for our own good) and the *responsibility* to chase off any person or group who claims to know what’s “best for us”.
And we don’t need a *nanny state* to protect us from cradle to grave; especially one that insists psychiatric drugs are the answer to emotional suffering; one intent on making sure more people have access, *forced* whenever necessary.
imo, they *become* corrupt, as they move into a lifestyle of comfort, at the expense of those they injure.
this is why many of us consider psychiatry an *evil* system…
too many docs making a good living causing a lot of injury… too many docs saying and doing *nothing* to stop it
i think so
‘stupid’ and ‘lazy’ people don’t get through med school and residency
they are in denial – with school loans, mortgages, car payments, child expenses, etc…
their medical bag is limited – labels, drugs, ect, incarceration – things that cause more harm than good…
they have to reject all they’ve been taught… most do not
’emotional distress’ to replace ‘schizophrenia’
’emotional breakdown’ to replace ‘psychosis’
“… but ‘conservatives’ have less of a problem with outright brutal repression if necessary to preserve the system.”
Preserve what ‘system’?
If you are referring to the psychiatric system, I disagree.
Because a true conservative wants to *preserve* civil liberties; including the rights of individuals and families to say *no* to conventional psychiatric treatment, regardless of what the *state* or other authority might have to say.
IMO, constitutional rights are radical; so are those of us who work on protecting them.
A good place to start a topic – All Things Political –
And because we have failed to do these things, I am *proud* to say I am *against* psychiatric drugs – not only for the ‘Russian roulette’ style in which they are prescribed and taken; but also because of the broken one-size-fits-all medical model behind these drugs. and the fallout of this model on individual civil rights.
Great article. Thank you.
“Those of us who question psychiatry’s relationship with medication may be dismissed as ‘Pill Shamers’ or branded as irresponsible and dangerous voices by those who are convinced medication is the only way of treating someone’s ‘illness’. The debate can feel like a fight between two intractably opposed sides, giving the impression that we must either be ‘for’ or ‘against’ medication. ”
IMO, it ‘feels’ like a fight between two sides – because it *is* a fight between two sides.
IMO, these things would put an end to this fight:
1) *Fully* informed consent – the good, the bad and the ugly
2) The end of the use of force without due process
3) Making sure people are aware of alternatives and their right to choose them
Then, the people left taking these drugs would be fully-informed adults; without force, who opt to take them after considering other options. If we do this,the fight goes away…
Because we have not, the fight *continues*…
IMO, your assessment is accurate: psychiatric drugs are a quick-fix for a select few; determined only *after* they are taken.
Which makes the “medicine” of psychiatry about as safe as playing a round of Russian roulette… a bullet in the wrong chamber can ruin the entire day.
And thanks for contacting her, AA.
IMO, every contact helps. Really.
I contacted more liberal media outlets for years, hoping to stir some interest, with no success.
Maybe you’ll have more success; particularly with this story and Rachel Maddow. I hope so.
I too am grateful for all your work.
As a Catholic, it meant a great deal to see your videos from the Vatican last summer. I sincerely hope the Pontifical Council takes a serious look at the dangers of these drugs – for children and expectant mothers.
I can think of *nothing* more disgusting than the way the “mentally ill” are treated in this country. It’s disgraceful. And there are *no excuses* that can be made. None!
Children are sacred. And a society is best judged by how it treats its *most vulnerable*. This is *shameful*.
We have to replace this shattered system. Not “reform” it, but REPLACE it!
I’m grateful to Fox News for reporting this. Peter Breggin has been a regular on their programs. It would be nice to see CNN, MSNBC, etc follow their lead.
Rachel Maddow, where are you?
And I certainly don’t mean to imply you do not constantly look for answers in scientific literature, nutrition and other areas of research. You regularly update us on your studies; what you’ve learned; what you find; what you continue to search for.
Once again, okay by me.
We don’t always agree. And I come on strong at times, but I’m *very grateful* you’re here. I must say however, IMO you are not an ordinary psychiatrist. On the contrary, you are quite *extraordinary*. Any person who constantly calls on their conscience as their guide is okay by me.
I agree, John, He presents the facts; gets straight to the point, powerfully.
Thank you for putting another well-written piece together. I especially appreciate the obvious time and thought that goes into your work.
I have read a little about TMS, but not much. Your article helped educate me a bit more, and I appreciate it…. I personally would have reservations about trying this treatment. When I was a young man, I found an osteopath who specialized in a non-invasive approach. It made a world of difference; helping me overcome trauma and depression:
This might be worth looking into, for anyone considering TMS, as a safer alternative.
The main problem is *undertreatment*?
Are these people serious?!
This is a good one to use for those you disagree with politically:
“Don’t forget to vote – the *second* Tuesday in November.