Tuesday, January 22, 2019

Comments by ceebee1

Showing 24 of 24 comments.

  • deeo42,
    The Homovanillic Acid 24 Hour Urine test (HVA) is the most accurate when determining a normal level of Dopamine. A qiick blood test for HVA can be done, but it is less accurate due to minuscule quantification’s involved. Age is also a factor. A sample reference for DA would be: 2-4 years < 25.0 mg/g Creatinine in a 24 hr collect. Dopamine Normal level charts can be found on the Mayo Clinic Site.
    This test is used often to check Children for neuroblastoma as these tumors secrete a catecholamine. Dopamine is a catecholamine and so are its metabolites. You are absolutely correct; without knowing what is normal, a judgement of abnormal would be impossible. By the same token, if you don’t know the cause of ADHD behavior, you cannot know the proper diagnosis or cure for the problem. Ask any ADHD expert what the CAUSE is, and they will have to tell you they do not know.
    The Mind uses the emotions of fear, stress and anxiety, to generate additional DA. this all takes place in the Limbic System (Old Brain) and is a unconscious process. fMRI,s would probably show the presence of DA in the brain, but not a quantification.

    Our mind, in association with our brain, is trying to keep us alive, so that we can multiply. That is their GOAL. They can only do this if the signaling within our brain is sufficient. The signaling can only be sufficient when DOPAMINE LEVELS are normal.

    Chet

  • Thanks again Pete. This article is ‘spot on’…..
    Let’s try it again in the simplest of terms. ADHD behavior is not a BAD thing, it is a GOOD thing. The Child or Young Adult receives a benefit from their BAD behavior. The benefit is an increase in the neurotransmitter DOPAMINE(DA) in the sensory area of the brain. The hallmark of ADHD is the ‘lower than normal’ level of DA in the brain, especially the SENSORY AREA and the PRE-FRONTAL CORTEX AREA. The Child or Young Adult, is SELF-MEDICATING with BAD BEHAVIOR. The people who suffer from ADHD are the Parents, Teachers, Health Care Providers and Peers, who do not have the PROBLEM. ADHD is not a Disease or Disorder, but a very ORDERED RESPONSE from the Autonomic Nervous System to maintain (DA) Homeostasis in the brain. Stimulants only take the place of BAD BEHAVIOR during the efficacy of the medication. Kids and Young Adults presenting ADHD Behavior are perfectly NORMAL in every respect. ADHD is just as NORMAL as, Shivering when you are cold or sweating when you are hot. The problem for us all is adapting to a ever changing and much more stimulating environment.

    Hypothesis posted on Pete’s last article.

    Chet

  • Great article Pete.
    ADHD kids are perfectly normal in every way. Here is my hypothesis:

    Hypothesis: Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder (ADHD)
    Rev.4, 10-22-2016

    ADHD is a behavioral anomaly, initiated by the Autonomic Nervous System (ANS), to facilitate the survival of the individual. The behavior is a Limbic System (unconscious) response, ordered by Primordial/Autonomic Emotion, to restore Dopamine (DA) homeostasis in the sensory areas of the brain.

    Abnormally low dopamine levels in the sensory areas of the brain, degrades the most primitive human survival capability; the Fight or Flight Response. The ANS, sensing this threat to survival, initiates, supports and remembers unconsciously learned misbehaviors that increase systemic dopamine levels (a homeostasis restoration process).

    Emotions that cause an increase of DA or DA derivatives in the sensory areas are fear,
    stress, anxiety and depression. These unconscious behaviors, initiated by the ANS, cause the individual child/adult, to present behavior that is risky, obnoxious and socially un-acceptable. These behaviors present an outward appearance that could be mistaken as a disorder, but they are DA producing behaviors and are a form of self-medication.

    The basic problem is unbalanced attention, which leads to a low dopamine level in the sensory area of the brain. When Involuntary attention (attending to external stimuli) exceeds Voluntary attention (memory retrieval), it leaves a DA deficit in the sensory areas. This condition causes the homeostasis restoration process to begin.

    Processing external stimuli into long term memory decreases DA in the sensory areas, while memory retrieval replenishes DA into the system. Since all behavior initiates in the subconscious mind, appropriate psychotherapy techniques and life style changes, can be used to bring the sensory system into balance (homeostasis). Co-morbid low DA problems would also respond positively from a sensory system in homeostasis.

    Several of the universal environmental changes affecting children and young adults are:
    Increased use of electronic devices that demand their Involuntary attention and a increase in memory requirements (TV, Video games, Tablets etc.). Decreasing requirement for physical exercise (School Buses and fewer exercise opportunities) while in or out of school. The combined effect is impaired signaling within the brain (low DA levels).

    Chester Germain Bush, MS.
    Counseling and Human Development

  • Barliman June 23, 2017 at 2:06 am
    Here is the catch ceebee, the behaviours that are a problem in ADHD are not voluntary.(True, they are coming from your subconscious mind). They do not occur because they are being rewarded. (Wrong, you just got an increase in your dopamine level). They usually are not even driven by threat in the environment- (though that can worsen them). ( They are driven by your need to avoid a threat in your environment { the fight or flight response}). The behaviours represent escape of behaviours, and that escape will happen pretty much as soon as our back is turned and our awareness focusses on another subject. (Exactly, your behavior got you what you needed and you are on to other things).
    We do actually know better, we don’t like them, but it is very hard to suppress them. ( Of course you know better; ADHD behavior would not work for you unless you had a good sense of ‘right and wrong’).

    Please see my comment on the Blog “Researchers Question the Utility of an ADHD Diagnosis”. Cheer-Up! Your Normal.

    Chet Bush

  • Great Article Peter

    I think Dr. Timmimi has finally ‘put to bed’ any notion that ADHD is a Disease or Disorder. After many years of research and many ‘tax payer $$$$$, no empirical evidence has been found that would classify ADHD as a Disease or Disorder. After a 22 year investigation into the underpinnings of ADHD, it has occurred to me that ADHD is the most misunderstood behavior problem that has ever been described ( Dr. Still, March 1902).

    ADHD is only a problem for those who observe or are the objects of the behavior, however, the children or young adults who present this risky, obnoxious and over-all bad behavior, receive a benefit from it. What benefit ? A Dopamine Increase. So low dopamine levels are the cause of ADHD ? NO! Low dopamine levels are the cause of the ADHD behavior…ADHD behavior is a temporary CURE for lower than normal Dopamine levels just like a Ritalin Tablet is a temporary cure for the behavior. So, a Ritalin tablet increases Dopamine levels? No, Ritalin tablets are a Stimulant and they are re-uptake inhibitors.

    Re-uptake inhibitors keep dopamine in the neuronal cleft during the effective period of the tablet.
    During this period, the child or young adult can relax and not preform ADHD behavior. they can think and solve problems, plan and perform at near normal levels. When the effective period of the tablet is over, the child is ‘once again’ called upon by the Autonomic Nervous System (ANS) to get back into the ADHD behavior again. All of this takes place in the Child’s unconscious mind . the Child or Young Adult does not know why they do the behaviors they do; they may even, in a quiet moment, confess to you that they don’t know why they do bad things, and they are telling you the truth. Kids diagnosed with ADHD are perfectly normal both mentally and physically: in fact, the must have a very good sense of ‘right or wrong’ or ADHD would not work for them.

    So, What is the cause of ADHD? The cause of ADHD are the factors that cause lower than normal levels of dopamine in 11% of our children, ages 4-17.

    Chet Bush

  • Peter,

    “Researchers Reveal Misconceptions About ADHD”…..The title of your Article almost says it all.
    Misconception : a view or opinion that is incorrect because it is based on faulty thinking or understanding. ADHD Researchers, in my opinion, are suffering from both problems.

    Dr. George F. Still presented his second Goulstonian Lecture in March, 1902. The Goulstonian Lectures are an annual lecture series given on behalf of the Royal College of Physicians in London.
    Dr. Still mentioned a proband in his Study, a young boy, who would steal items from his classmates while in school, ie pocket knives, marbles etc., and later that day after school, he would go to town and give those items away. Dr. Still reasoned that the boy didn’t need or want the stolen items. Dr. Still concluded that the boy must be suffering from ( A Defect Of Moral Character ), one of the first names ascribed to ADHD.

    We Humans do and say things because we, ‘get something out of it either consciously or unconsciously’. So ‘what did the young boy, in the above scenario, get out of his behavior?
    Fear of getting caught, stress and anxiety and associated depression. And what do these emotions cause?…..A increase of systemic Dopamine Levels. ADHD is a ‘Lower than normal level of Dopamine’ problem. Our ADHD kids are self medicating with ‘Bad or unacceptable and obnoxious behavior’. The behavior is unconscious and if you ask them why the did or said something that got themselves in trouble, they will tell you that they don’t know…..and they are telling you the truth.

    ADHD kids and young Adults are perfectly normal, both physically and mentally. Researchers, there is a very good reason for lower than normal levels of dopamine and serotonin.

    For all of you Neurotransmitter Imbalance Deniers, please google: The “Chemical Imbalance” in Mental Health Problems, by Joseph M. Carver, PhD., Clinical Psychologist

    Chet Bush

  • UH OH,

    Just a slight problem….Eisenberg is not the ‘Father of ADHD’. Most ADHD ? Scholars ? would give that honor to Dr. George F. Still, who described the condition ‘we now call’ ADHD, 20 years before Eisenberg was born. Please see: adhd-npf.com/history-of-adhd-1902-sir-george/

    ADHD is real. ADHD is not a disease or disorder. ADHD has only a ‘pathway’ connection to genetics. ADHD presents differently in Boys than in Girls, for a very good reason. Kid presenting typical ADHD behavior are perfectly normal kids, both mentally and physically. As someone pointed out earlier on this thread, “WE CANNOT SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS WITH THE SAME THINKING WE USED WHEN WE CREATED THEM “.
    Albert Einstein

    I believe Eisenberg was suffering from Notoriety Disorder, while on his death bed.

  • Dr. Steinman,
    Thank you for this very interesting article. I have been told many times that, “if it looks like a Duck, walks like a Duck and quacks like a Duck, there is a very good chance it is a Duck”. Why do Clinicians, after observing ‘abnormal behavior’ in a patient with no apparent empirical evidence of a disease disorder, continue to think that chemical intervention is indicated?

    I believe schizophrenia(SZ) is a behavior problem, pure, but not so simple. The thought process of those with SZ, has the effect of increasing the dopamine(DA) level, in a ‘all ready’ DA saturated brain. Left untreated with psychotherapy, this process will continue, unabated, until neurotoxins (glutamate etc.) begin to attack the DA receptor cells(the final stage).

    All behavior is initiated in the subconscious mind microseconds before the conscious mind is aware. Behavior can best be modified at the subconscious level with psychotherapy(Hypnosis).
    Keep up the good work Dr. Steinman, I believe you are on the right track.

    Chet Bush

  • Hello again Tim,

    I detected, by your last post to me, that you are ready to end our discourse And I agree, for all the same reasons. I wanted you to know that the AdvertisementThat I cited, was purposeful. In your previous post to me, you seemed almost Startled when I mentioned that there are charts that indicate the normal levels of dopamine and serotonin in the brain. Purpose – to show you that these tests for neurotransmitter imbalance, are so common that they often show up in Scientific Magazines. You also expressed concern that serotonin was found in other parts of The body (by the way, so is dopamine in the PNS to control BP) and that some peopleAre bigger than others and would naturally have more dopamine and serotonin.

    Here is how it works: Dopamine is a catecholamine. There is a blood test and a Urine
    Test for dopamine. The Urine test is the most accurate when preparation guidelines Are followed. The test is called : Homovanillic Acid (HVA) 24 Hour, Urine Test.

    The test can be useful in screening children for catecholamine-secreting tumors, monitoring for neuroblastoma treatment and for screening patients for internally caused Catecholamine metabolism (dopamine sufficiency or deficiency).

    As mentioned before, the test is age and gender sensitive and covers ages, less than a Year to adulthood.
    A sample Reference Value would be: ages 5-9 years: less than 15.0 mg/g creatinine

    Serotonin levels are determined by a 5-HT Level Blood Test. I will not go into it.

    Reference: Mayo Medical Laboratories.

    Tim, a question of mine and hopefully yours is; Why have ‘normal levels’ of neurotransmitters been established, if your contention is that: A Chemical Imbalance In The Brain is a Myth, ie never change?

    I conclude that ‘A Chemical Imbalance In the Brain is a Myth’, is a myth.
    We both know that “Two Myths Do Not Make A Truth”.

    Best of luck and Merry Christmas

    Chet

  • Hi Tim,

    Normal dopamine and serotonin level charts are readily available. They are based on age and gender. I thought the Advert. below was informational.

    Ad. in a Psyc. Mag.

    Determine Natural Serotonin Levels with a Serotonin Test
    Testing for low serotonin levels is available and helpful in determining an appropriate treatment. Neurotransmitter tests can now provide precise information on deficiencies or overloads in key neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. A serotonin test can measure serotonin levels to determine if a serotonin imbalance is present.

    Chet

  • Hello Tim,

    I seemed to have failed in getting my point over to you. I’ll try again. A person can have a dopamine level that is higher than normal (schizophrenia) or they can have dopamine levels that are lower than normal (ADHD). Dopamine is an organic chemical. Do you see a chemical imbalance in either of these statements? If you do, well…..

    I don’t believe that ADHD or any of its co-morbid problems are diseases or disorders. We judge children and label them by the behaviors they present. Take away the behavior, and you have a perfectly normal child. Some behaviors can be very helpful. Take for instanced, a cough, sneeze or Flatulence; they are not very nice, but necessary and can be therapeutic.

    I have stopped pulling down Railroad crossing gates and expecting a train to go by; it has helped my thinking process considerably. But every now and then……

    Tim, if you believe as I do that….We humans do and say thing because we
    Derive some benefit from that activity, either consciously or unconsciously, then we perhaps we may find some common ground.. If you don’t believe this, then I guess there will be no milk and cookies for you.

    Chet

  • Tim,
    WHAT!…No Santa….I’m shocked. A very cleverly written piece, I must say; you can only hope that a little Fiction Dust will fall over the Facts of the matter. You claim that a chemical imbalance in the brain is a myth. Here is an ‘inconvenient truth’ that you must address. Researchers have found that Children with ADHD, can be treated successfully with stimulant medication, which allows them to function at ‘near normal behavior’ levels. Here is how it works:

    Stimulants are Dopamine re-uptake inhibitors. Kids with ADHD have ‘lower than normal’ levels of dopamine in their brain. The re-uptake inhibitors work by interrupting the normal flow of dopamine in the neuronal synapse. Normally, unused dopamine flows back to the pre-synapse to be used again. The inhibitors block the pathway back to the pre-synapse and trap the dopamine in the neuronal cleft. The Child now has sufficient dopamine available throughout the effective period of the stimulant medication.
    Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) work basically the same way.

    Clinical Depression and Schizophrenia are conditions where the brain has ‘too much’ dopamine available. The treatment for these conditions is anti-psychotics. They work By blocking the dopamine receptor cells in the brain.

    So you see Tim, it is because of chemical imbalance in the brain that Big Pharma is making billions of $$$$$$. Fortunately there are many non-chemical ways to control Dopamine and serotonin levels. I do not advocate chemical intervention due to adverse
    Side effects. I have read about ADHD cases, so far out of control, that chemical Intervention was necessary just to regain control of the child. The goal, however, should Be a non-chemical treatment plan. Harvard Prof. John Ratey has written an excellent Book “SPARK”, that describes how to increase dopamine and serotonin levels through
    Exercise.

    Chet

  • The Stimulant Paradox revisited.

    What is the rational behind giving, what appears to be a overstimulated child(typical ADHD behavior), a stimulant medication to calm them down? Answer: Stimulant medications are Dopamine Re-uptake Inhibitors. They temporarily hold the neurotransmitter Dopamine in the neuronal cleft, allowing for normal communication between different parts of the brain. But why does this allow the child to calm down? Because the stimulant medication is doing what the child’s BEHAVIOR has been attempting to do, INCREASE DOPAMINE LEVELS IN THE BRAIN.

    ADHD kids are perfectly NORMAL KIDS. They do not have a disease or disorder. ADHD BEHAVIOR IS AN AUTONOMIC NERVOUS SYSTEM ATTEMPT TO MAINTAIN DOPAMINE HOMEOSTASIS. This all happens in the LIMBIC SYSTEM ( Unconscious Processes) and are kids are not aware of why they do these behaviors or how their behavior affects others.
    ADHD IS A CURE.

    Chet Bush

  • Expanding my comment on Dr. Gold’s ‘The ADHD Dilemma: that appeared on MIA recently, to wit:
    Yes, ADHD does exist, but it is not a disease or disorder. Ask any parent, Teacher or Clinician that deals with children diagnosed with ADHD, and they will tell you that ‘something is wrong with their behavior’. Years of research and millions of dollars expended to discover any empirical evidence that would qualify ADHD as a disease or disorder, and none has been found. Kids diagnosed with DSM 5 criteria for ADHD are perfectly normal kids, both physically and mentally….why….take away the DSM 5 behavior, and what you have left is a good kid. These kids are dancing to a different drummer.

    Here is a bit more about the different drummer to which our kids are responding.
    “Within every patient there resides a doctor, and we as physicians are at our best when we we put our patients in touch with the doctor inside themselves.” Albert Schweitzer, M.D.
    The ‘different drummer’ is the ‘Doctor inside themselves’ that Dr. Schweitzer refers to. We humans do and say thing because we get something out of it, either consciously or unconsciously. So what is the Doctor inside our kids, telling them to do? This is the subject of my hypothesis for the cause of ADHD (BEHAVIOR) and a new paradigm for co-morbid behavior problems. ADHD is a behavior problem and does not need chemical intervention for diagnosis or treatment.
    I’ll ask MIA if they would be interested in a Article that would include the hypothesis.

  • Yes, ADHD does exist, but it is not a disease or disorder. Ask any parent, Teacher or Clinician that deals with children diagnosed with ADHD, and they will tell you that something is wrong with their behavior. Years of research and millions of dollars expended to discover any empirical evidence that would qualify ADHD as a disease or disorder, and none has been found. Kids diagnosed with DSM 5 criteria for ADHD are perfectly normal kids, both physically and mentally….why….take away the DSM 5 behavior, and what you have left is a good kid. These kids are dancing to a different drummer. Any researcher out there, that has an interested in the drummer; we need to talk.

  • Perhaps a little Reverse Engineering could shed some light on the ADHD problem. Big Pharma makes billions of dollars making stimulant medications for the treatment of ADHD in Children and Adults. Why? Because it works. How does it work? Stimulants are Re-uptake Inhibitors of the neurotransmitter Dopamine(DA). Re-uptake Inhibitors interrupt the normal flow of DA through the Neuronal Cleft and traps the available DA in the Cleft for the duration of the stimulant’s effective period. So, what good does this do? Sufficient DA in the brain is necessary for proper signaling between the different parts of the brain.
    What is the benefit of proper signaling in the brain? Sensory areas of the brain return to normal, Executive Function, short and long term memory improves. The Child or Adult has a feeling of being normal and ‘in control’ again and this has a calming effect on the individual.

    Unfortunately, stimulants do nothing to cure ADHD.and their benefits are only temporary. The health risks of taking stimulant medications make them unacceptable for the treatment for ADHD.

    I am writing this short piece to make Three points.
    1. The cause of ADHD lies within the individual.
    2. Lower than normal DA level is a causative factor for this unacceptable
    behavior.
    3. Children and Adults presenting ADHD behavior are perfectly normal
    in every respect. They are unconsciously responding to their Autonomic
    Nervous System to correct a more serious problem

    Thank you Dr. Hickey for writing this article. I’m sorry that you did not feel qualified to comment on my ADHD Hypothesis, but I certainly respect your honesty.

    Chet

  • Could it be that people diagnosed with SZ, rather than being ‘out of their minds’. are actually ‘too much into their minds’? Could it be that they are getting something out of isolating themselves and wanting to be left alone?

    I believe that we humans, do and say things , because we get something out of it. either consciously or unconsciously.

  • Wait a minute…..These researchers are proposing psychoactive chemicals for Human Babies when they can not tell the difference between a Normal Mouse and a Schizophrenic Mouse….Surely, they have studied normal mouse behavior and normal mouse neurotransmitter levels and environmental conditions and have established a Spices Standard. Assuming they have established a mouse Standard, observe a group of mice and pick out the ones that are schizophrenic. You say you still don’t know what a schizophrenic mouse looks and acts like? I guess you will have to create one. How do you create a schizophrenic mouse? You create a schizophrenic mouse the same way you create a schizophrenic human being. Take a normal mouse and incarcerate and isolate it and feed and water it automatically making sure that it has no other mouse interaction, Cut off all external stimulus. How do I know when the mouse is schizophrenic? Observe the behavior of the mouse; is it normal? No; then you are witnessing schizophrenic behavior. Has the mouse entered a catatonic state yet? No, but it will. How about chemically? Human schizophrenics are known to have very high levels of dopamine(DA) in the Brain. Observe the DA level of the mouse. When the DA level exceeds that of normal mouse DA levels, then we have a schizophrenic mouse both behaviorally and chemically.

    Please excuse my ‘Tongue- in- cheek’ approach to a very serious problem.
    Again, our researchers are trying to diagnose and treat the effects of a problem without a complete understanding of the CAUSE of the problem.

  • Unbelievable! The question posed by these two ADHD researchers is troubling, given that their ultimate goal should be to discover the underpinnings of the ADHD problem. It has been 113 years since Dr. George F. Still pointed out that there was a behavior problem in a small group of normal children. He called it a problem of ‘ moral control’. as research continued through the years, the moral control notion gave way to the “minimal brain damage” (MBD) idea. When MBD could not be found, attention deficit was thought to be the cause (ADD). After stimulant medication was found to give temporary relief to the inattention problem, it was noticed that a certain amount hyperactivity had entered the condition. Not to worry, just add an H to the definition and you have it(ADHD). But wait; not all kids fit this description….. that’s easy, just add a few sub-types. Anyone who deals with children with ‘so called’ ADHD knows that they have too much attention, not a deficit of attention. Sometimes they try to attend to everything in their environment (distracted) and sometimes they zero in on something of interest and pour all of their attention on that one thing (fixated). Sometimes they appear to be attending to something unconsciously (inattentive).

    So, do we need a bio marker for ADHD? That would be great, but first and foremost, we need to know WHAT IS CAUSING THE PROBLEM IN 10% OF OUR CHILDREN. A bio marker for something we do not yet understand, would not be very helpful.

  • ADHD has as its signature problem a (lower than normal level of dopamine in the brain). Dr. John Ratey, in his book “Spark”, states that “exercise increases the neurotransmitters dopamine and serotonin”. I believe that kids Dx’ed with ADHD are unconsciously self medicating themselves by presenting with exercising behaviors such as tapping, knee twitching, gum chewing, up and down and walking around, and just plain fidgeting while in class, etc. Teachers who are not trained to recognize these behaviors as unconscious behaviors, sometimes take away the child’s recess privilege. Educators, Parents and clinicians, these children and young adults need EXERCISE before, during and after school….and before bedtime if they having trouble going to sleep.
    Limit children’s use of ‘glow screen devices’ , such as TV, Video Games. Tablets and Cell Phones. Use of these devices depletes ‘much needed’ neurotransmitters in their brains. Allow use of these devices as a reward for ‘good behavior’ and then only on a limited basis.