Sunday, November 27, 2022

Comments by Zagoorey

Showing 13 of 13 comments.

  • ETA: Once the racket is set up and systematized, the psychopaths will simply lie and lie to maintain their power pulpit. Concretely this means that they’ll look at who has insurance and lie to commit those who do, for just one example that’s happened horrifically to me. There is no court to challenge their claims, and since they aren’t ‘scientific’ in the slightest or objective, it’s pure tyranny. Please anyone who has any moral compass and/or equanimity realize that once a bureaucracy arises that is built totally on a lie by liars all that will come out of it are lies.

    The net effect on society is evil. I’ve known some manic depressives who probably could be at risk during their depressive episodes for suicide, but they (manic depressives) exist in such infinitesimal numbers in the population and only hurt themselves. Losing a statistical non entity is nothing compared to allowing the state to install tyranny over all, and besides, the depressive phase is usually non psychotic anyway. If they really want help they can get it.

    True psychosis (material delusions and hallucinations) is inherently self referential. They do harm to no one nor usually themselves, other than to deal with disruption. Again, the scant numbers and non violent nature of true psychosis militates that they and only they decide to get this supposed help, lest the majority lose their most basic liberties.

    This is the only cogent, ‘evidence’-based and constitutional way. There can be no justification by the authority of science that has NO SCIENCE.

  • What I struggle to understand is how people miss the issue. Involuntary commitment aka imprisonment without due process requires that a person be declared ‘mentally ill.’ Now, this is supposed to be determined through some ‘medical’ process; I believe federal law requires two psychiatrists to declare someone ‘dangerous to self or others by dint of a mental illness.’ Needless to say, most states do whatever they want so that’s already not a protocol honored by at the very least my state.

    Worse, though, is that no one on here seems to want to acknowledge that diagnosing ‘disease’ requires SCIENTIFIC EMPIRICAL MEDICAL evidence. Psychiatrists are not acting in any medical capacity whatsoever when they ‘diagnose.’ Neither are psychologists (in my state only psychiatrists’ ‘diagnoses’ are considered valid for court purposes).

    Before I go on, is there any regular on here who is able to see this?

    Because the answer is obvious to the questioning in the article. Only a jury of one’s peers can decide/vote to imprison them. A jury can decide if someone is dangerous enough. The state of Iowa recognizes this. Why don’t people on here?

    Because once ‘science’ is used to justify eviscerating due process when there is NO science, all one has are hollow claims made by psychopaths – and anyone pretending to practice medicine or science who has none to show is a psychopath, plain and simple. We need to call out the essential pivotal lie of psychiatry. It simply has nothing to do whatsoever with medicine. As such to hide behind some pretense of ‘care’ when a jury is just as capable of determining concrete reality (no MD is needed) will always be a tactic of repression and exploitation – a form of racketeering. Psychiatrists are worse than frauds; they’re deeply spiritually sick individuals, who often suffer from ‘serious psychological illness.’

  • This comment didn’t make it past approval on the site Sera directed me to, so I figured I’d post it here. There has been an official cultivated ignorance on the proposed threshold for committals in the Murphy package. It was officially ignored on the site Sera mentions, under Talking Points. It’s all very curious to me. Here was the comment:

    In the Elliot Rodger incident, much was made that the system ‘failed’ to prevent his killing spree (I am one of the many who don’t accept the media’s version of the event as wholly authentic). There was reporting on the ‘welfare check’ the cops were called to make by Rodger’s psychologist. This is one of the incidents and alleged system failures that is used to lobby for this ‘in need of treatment’ threshold.

    Yet a welfare check has zero to do with any kind of psychological evaluation. It is simply a check on whether or not a resident is alive and physically well. I called for one on an elderly friend who lived alone last year and all the cops did was ring the doorbell, see that he was physically capable of answering it, and leave. That’s all a welfare check is.

    A screening is something totally different and is supposedly what Rodger’s counselor requested the cops order. It would call for taking Rodger into an ER where he could be detained, observed and screened for up to 72 hours – plenty of time to scrutinize the videos he’d posted and speak with his family. The screening process allows for anyone and everyone to have a say in the ‘accused’s’ supposed mental state.

    So the incident which spurred Tim Murphy’s bill’s introduction (which was made very quickly after Rodger’s supposed spree) had nothing to do with a ‘broken system’ that ‘failed’ to detect a ‘seriously mentally ill’ psychopath. The cops didn’t do what they were allegedly asked to do and were legally allowed and possibly obligated to do – force Rodger to the ER or at the least require him to be screened on site. No cop is legally allowed to do this, so the notion that a bunch of police somehow missed anything is absurd and a legal non-sequitur.

    Why has the community failed to acknowledge this? How on earth has AOT been considered more draconian and violating than the spuriously justified change in involuntary committal threshold? At the least AOT allows for some modicum of due process, while imprisonment by whim affords citizens NONE.

    I continue to scratch my head at the seeming incongruity that’s gone on…

  • You did an excellent job with this piece, Sera – truly excellent. Decoding the linguistic manipulation is essential. My question was more about the opposition at large and why we haven’t keyed in on this provision at all. Obviously not every article can’t focus so narrowly. But keep up the fine work, you do everyone a tremendous service!

  • Thank you for that excellent summary of Big Pharma’s backing of supposed ‘advocacy’ groups and self help networks. It is precisely the kind of resource I’ve been looking for.

    Do you have any thoughts on my other question? Am I perhaps missing something when it comes to the new criteria for involuntary committals? Is there some reason so few are focusing on that that I’m unaware of? Is it considered somehow justified by consumers? If so, why? I’m just not getting this outrage over AOT but not over Tim Murphy’s call for total tyranny over anyone supposedly ‘needing treatment.’


    Some think a final version could pass this session.

    When did NAMI become a shill for Big Pharma?

    If concerned citizens don’t organize and lobby against this bill, I’d say it will pass, sooner than later. And there will be no going back.

    If anyone wants to do any kind of activism that addresses the public at large, not just consumers, I’d be happy to exchange contact info.

    Murphys bills are about political repression a la the Soviet Union. It’s a mistake to ghettoize opposition to it in strictly consumer terms or perspective, in my view. Americans need to know what’s coming down.

  • Sera, what do you think of the former Manic Depressive/Depressive self help association being taken over by what appears to be Big Pharma’s proxies? When it was changed to ‘bipolar’ support group, it became a totally different thing. Where I live, there seem to be plants facilitating these groups. A local one is run by a man who claims his wife has bipolar. He tries to repress discussion of the difference between manic depression and bipolar. I know most of the manic depressives all left in a huff some years ago when their group was taken over.

    What I’m getting at is that I think Big Pharma has been at work for several years trying to take over whatever authentic self help networks existed. They seem to wield control over most of the alleged advocacy groups, too. Mental Health America just came out and endorsed the new Murphy bill.

    Also, it’s been confirmed that Chris Murphy and Cassidy intend on adopting Tim Murphy’s provision about involuntary commitments. Why so few have voiced opposition to that, instead focusing on AOT, baffles me. I personally think there was some strategy to the unveiling of these bills. ‘In need of treatment’ is such an outrageous evisceration of due process and constitutional rights (for everyone) yet most consumers are ignoring this soviet-style diktat. All the lawyers I know say it can’t happen for that reason. But circumvention of the Constitution is exactly the bill’s purpose.

  • I think some of us need to get together and form a group that addresses the community at large, not just the ‘consumer’ or whatever one. We need to put things in terms the average person understands and can relate to, one of which is money. Chris Murphy’s bill is basically a stealth gun control one that’s designed to fuse with Tim Murphy’s vision of Gulag America; he wants bodies more than just guns.

    There are a lot of issues to draw out and expose that the average american of either party would be horrified by. If anyone wants to hook up with me to form a random citizens’ civil liberties opposition to Murphy that’s focused on its attacks against the freedoms of the general population please let me know and I’ll find a way to send contact info.

  • I can confirm that S. 1945 does not mention anything about threshold for involuntary committal. I asked a legal aid and there is no clear prediction for what will become of Tim Murphy’s call for ‘in need of treatment’ as the new threshold in whatever final bill comes out of the two versions being lobbied for (Tim Murphy’s is in the House, Chris Murphy’s is in the Senate).

    I highly suspect that Tim Murphy’s insane (dare I use the word?) call to give the state the power to simply slap a label on someone and then imprison them and torture them without any limitations will pick up the slack for all the bodies the vampire will lose from the Chris Murphy’s dropping of AOT; instead of court-ordered treatment people will just be committed instead.

    I’m still shocked that so few have focused in on this element of Tim Murphy’s bill, as court-ordered treatment is not the same as being imprisoned *and* drugged.

  • I developed two serious syndromes after withdrawing from an unbelievable battery of psychotropics foisted on me by a psycho aka psychiatrist – one who was president of our state’s psychiatric organization which should say something.

    One was an auditory processing disorder and the other, Raynaud’s syndrome. The first is severely disabling in certain situations. My audiologist told me she’s seeing them develop in kids taking these drugs especially.

    I was not just robbed of five years of my life, but also suffer life long brain damage from it.

    Does anyone know how I might go about finding out what might be done for an auditory processing disorder? All the neurologists in my state are way up there with the psychiatrists and Big Pharma people, so I highly doubt they’d have anything intelligent to say and might even try to do something worse to me.

  • Hi Lauren, great article and thanks for the scoop on the new version of the same Murphy bill. After glancing through it, I don’t think it mentions threshold for involuntary commitment. Am I right? If so, does that augur that Tim Murphy’s criteria will likely become the default in whatever final version they come up with?

    Why do you think AOT has drawn such criticism while this provision regarding commitment hasn’t? Every lawyer I know thinks it ‘can’t pass,’ because it would ‘eviscerate due process.’ And it’s related to AOT in that it’s involuntary. If the criteria are ‘in need of treatment’ instead of court-ordered outpatient programs there will just be more imprisonment without due process. I don’t get how this is being ignored by ‘the community.’

    Thanks for any insights.