People are 100% entitled to their views, and I understand the suspicion about any new perspective … but I do wonder if you have read the Framework, Frank? You say: ‘With the PTM framework you are expecting “user/consumers” to buy whatever it is you’re selling. Liberate people from the mental patient role, and you no longer have “user/consumers” contending over what sort of fraud it is they are willing to buy (i.e. the bio-medical fraud versus the power-threat-meaning fraud).’ The Framework was not produced by professionals and then aimed at ‘user/consumers’ since it does not recognise such a distinction in terms of distress/extreme states/unusual experiences. The Framework was co-produced with survivors from the first meeting. It is about how we all, however we are categorised, struggle with the impact of power and with the emotional suffering arising from it. It is imperfect and incomplete but it is not as you seem to be assuming. Ditto Oldhead’s comment: ‘When people make the connection that we feel this shit because we are being oppressed by concrete, identifiable forces we can then learn the value of defeating those forces — something the “framework” glosses over — and changing the objective situation for us all. THAT is the only thing that will ever get us finally venturing out of our individual little prison cells and collectively experiencing humanity — and life — as worthwhile and joyous.’ I totally agree. And this is what we have tried to convey – albeit imperfectly – in the Framework. If this message really isn’t coming across at all – which I find surprising – we would welcome thoughts on how to make it even more explicit.