Thursday, August 24, 2017

Comments by bcharris

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  • He might consider niacinamide, as it has anticonvulsive and antipsychotic properties and goes to the same receptor sites as the benzos and isn’t addictive, unless you consider pellagra a form of drug withdrawal. You’d have to use gram (or more) doses, but if your patients were screened properly, their main danger would come from the wrath of psychiatrists that you weren’t using powerful drugs to cure a “nonexistent” addiction.

  • Ah, but there frequently are physical components to the depression syndrome. Alas, antidepressants have little to no role in dealing with them, as they can frequently involve physical malfunctioning in one form or another and therefore require real (not psychiatric as we know it) examination and testing to be unearthed, identified and properly treated.

  • Only that the antidepressants are of limited value, the sort of thing to expect if you used them shotgun style, without doing a proper background on your depressed individuals when you first saw them. That method will see the number of depressed rise, as their medications are only good for some of them (and you don’t know which ones) but definitely not all.

  • Well, the notion of depression as a syndrome instead of an illness unto itself seems to be a hard one to grasp for some of the psychologically sophisticated as well as for pharmaceutical salespeople. I hope you don’t mind if some of the subsets of the syndrome actually do have medical treatments that aren’t psychiatric. For example, zinc salts are likely to be an important therapeutic for those depressed by their lost of the senses of smell and taste.

  • Since alleged mental illnesses are actually syndromes, I’d doubt that our pharmaceutically oriented mind scientists would find any consistent evidence of their subjects’ illnesses, because they’re mistakenly dealing with heterogeneous groups in their search for the magic curative pills that will leave their sponsors even more rich than they presently are.
    Unfortunately, their approach also leads to ignoring real illnesses that seriously affect mental functioning, such as ignoring ADHD symptomology that could likely be induced by subclinical heavy metal poisoning, even though discovering and treating such things isn’t difficult (but likely won’t use any of the sponsor’s products).

  • Think of the benzos as a band of gangsters and the banning of individual ones the equivalent of being on the FBI’s 10 most wanted list, that you usually don’t make until you become exceptionally notorious, even though you’re just one of the crowd of habitual criminals.

  • My favorite story of scientific obtuseness comes from the Incident of the Broad Street Pump, back in the 19th century, just before running water and Pasteur introducing the germ theory of disease proliferation.
    London’s public health officer (yes, they had one, back then), noticed a concentration of cholera cases surrounding one of the public pumps that dotted the city in those days, so he used his authority to pull the pump handle, stirring great outrage in the city’s medical community. Not only was the pump handle put back on, but one of the medical community’s bigwigs pumped himself, and drank, a glass of water from it to prove “that good English water never hurt anyone,” whereupon he died of cholera within 24 hours. Around 20 years later, when the pump was dug up, it was discovered a nearby line in the sanitary sewer had cracked, and was leaking effluent into the ground water.

  • One thing I seldom see in these pieces on the environment, is awareness of the biophysical environment, which can indeed be awfully bad for the impoverished, as dietary impoverishment and exposure to environmental toxins frequently can easily be essential elements of their social environment.

  • Fiachra. So- it only took the psych powers that be 50 years to catch up to the late Theron Randolph MD, allergist, whose work with 2000 patients with allergy-related “mental” disorders is being tested, only 50 years after first being presented to the APA.

  • The HOD test is unusual in that it’s quantitative. It was created by Hoffer and Osmond when Hoffer was Chief of Psychiatric Research in Saskatchewan and wanted a means for monitoring the progress (or lack thereof) in his research patients. It’s crude, but a descendent, the Experiential World Inventory, may be more statistically and philosophically correct.

  • They frequently do start inside one’s head- the Hoffer/Osmond Diagnostic test uses a sequence of, thoughts inside of head, hear thoughts like voice, thoughts outside head, voices about or to individual. Since you were hallucinatory from “toddlerhood”, Dr. Fox may not have had you take an initial one or use the test to monitor your progress. Time ill may also explain why you got sick after 6 months on B3. Since I wasn’t spectacularly ailing or greatly hallucinating, I only found out when I stopped taking it and began to space out again.

  • This is part of a greater social belief, now popular among Republicans, that personal acquisition of money and “stuff” is the only valuable human activity. I’m surprised that the GOP mavens haven’t tried to nullify the 13th Amendment, so budding tycoons could sell their children into slavery to get start-up capital for their fledgling businesses.

  • This torturing bit is hardly a brilliant concept, as it’s easily defeated by using “dead” agents, as Sun Tzu called them 2400 years ago. The dead agent is given false information and set up for capture by the enemy. When the information is revealed under torture, the enemy acts on it, and when he realizes he’s been deceived, he becomes enraged and executes the agent, hence the title.

  • My friend also had vivid hallucinations, where she’d be transported to various places that frequently repeated themselves. She’d have indications something was going to happen a few seconds before the transport took place that she knew she had to immediately pull over if she were driving. I don’t know the details of her nutrient program, but the thyroid was a necessary addition- she’d relapse into hallucinating on B3 alone, but remains happy and very able with the thyroid.

  • That’s Abram Hoffer, Frank. You might have confused him with Albert Hofmann, the Swiss who discovered the properties of LSD. Curiously enough, Hoffer was also involved with LSD therapy for alcoholics back in the 1950’s and 1960’s, and was also friends with Bill W. of AA fame, who he successfully treated for depression with niacin.

  • The audios (as I call them) are just another form of hallucination and no more resistant to B3 than the others. The delusions come from trying to explain the perceptual changes one experiences. I have a d.i.d. friend who recovered around 25 years ago on a nutrient program + thyroid. She’s worked for years as a physical therapy assistant for decades- one alter, a sadistic female, appears at work, but she can channel the alter to get the PT patients working out without it taking over. But she had a therapist who knew orthomolecular treatment help her, while I found out merely by chance I was dysperceptive.
    Were I you, I’d try to find an orthomolecular practitioner, the way Sara did. If you live in a big city, there may be a Schizophrenics Anonymous chapter there- they’ll know about their area practitioners.

  • Supplement- I take 9g/day, which I’ll never get from food. The basic dose for therapeutic use in schizophrenia syndrome is 3g/day, but I don’t know how much Sara takes, as I don’t live in Chicago and the amount one has to consume is individualized.

  • I’m intimately familiar with being on B3, having taken it for years, myself, but a number of the bloggers here aren’t. You might read some odd things from some of them, but I, for one, think you’re doing great, if your blog’s any indication.

  • That’s one of the reasons to reevaluate and reform hospital administrative culture. Our psychiatric culture would go into convulsions if you did one of the most elementary things- using hallucinogenic substances to give hospital staff members a taste of things as many patients experience them. The late Humphry Osmond, who was a noted hospital reformer while he was Superintendent of Weyburn Hospital, Saskatchewan, an institution a foundation investigator called one of the worst mental hospitals in the world (that he’d seen), encouraged his employees to take LSD for that very purpose as part of his program. He also renovated all the hospital “seclusion rooms” so they were places patients could use for refuges, instead of places staff used for punishment cells, among other things.

  • Probably not if you have surroundings where most of the residents are getting better, though I’m not actually sure. When I worked at a residential drug treatment center, I had a couple of residents that I was secretly giving niacinamide. When I began my shift, they would both suddenly appear at the Dutch door of the RA office while I was reading the shift notes and wait for me to give them their B3. Both graduated from the center’s program, to the professional staff’s amazement. I wasn’t going to admit anything to the staff, because I’d certainly be canned and ineligible for unemployment if the learned therapists found out (one staff member did find out I’d recommended How to Live With Schizophrenia for reading to one of the individuals, leading me to be reprimanded by the Clinical Supervisor).

  • Well, if you need the morning coffee that badly, maybe it’s time for that morning B1, which can be used as part of a program to eliminate speed-type drugs from your diet, and have a decaf instead. You also need a staff ready to set examples instead of being (sorry) examples. Even though I was a washed-out officer candidate, I’m still acquainted with the basics of leadership. Unfortunately, I couldn’t quit smoking until I had an episode of bronchitis so bad that the smallest hit on a cigarette left me rolling on the floor, coughing what remained of my lungs out. Having been classically conditioned from smoking by this, I realized I was a hopeless nicotine junky and could never smoke another one without this happening again. That was 40 years ago. I wouldn’t recommend this approach to others.

  • More on zinc and “eyeballing” the likelihood of its existence in interviewees.

    Major signs: lack of sense of taste and smell, white spots in fingernails, inability to taste (bitter) zinc sulfate in liquids.

    Possible signs: achy knees, no dream recall (both may indicate possibility of accompanying B6 deficiency or dependency)

    You’d also do well to read works of the late Carl Pfeiffer if you can find them. Zinc and Other Micronutrients is a good one if you can find it, or Mental and Elemental Nutrients. Both may be rare books by this time, being written 40+ years ago.

  • It’s too bad the officer caste was aghast at the thought of reefer madness, with conditions now even worse than when I was disgracing the flag in our now second-longest war (but then they didn’t have piss testing in those days). Still, I must admit I was frequently nasty to a guy who had sleep apnea, now that I know what it is- back then, it was too much too be on something like an LP with a guy who snored like a buzz saw and always fell asleep during his turn on radio watch (snoring noisily once he did).

  • What’s probably necessary for institutions, is to force directors to be responsible for the conduct of their charges, sacking those who have increasing rates of violent incidents in their facilities. It wouldn’t hurt to put legal skids on corporate backscratching, like we see in the pharmaceutical industry today.

    Unfortunately, the most difficult thing is to hang on, waiting for an entire generation of doctors and corporate executives to die, which is why usually 40 to 60 years have to elapse between the time medical discoveries occur and when they’re finally adopted- or a situation to erupt that old paradigms can’t handle (the reason penicillin came in less than 20 years after its discovery- World War II, with it’s millions of casualties in danger of dying from septicemia).

  • Our beloved political leaders aren’t going to do anything sane. Their plan will doubtlessly devolve into something involving the old rubbish about cannabis consumption being the cause of the opioid epidemic, which they will solve by eliminating the potheads with savage punishments, like trying to get the dead horse to pull the buggy by whipping it into life and breaking out the chainsaws when it fails to rise. After all, our present drug “czar” was once a spokesman and apologist for opioid manufacturers, who would ruin his post-political career by cramping his clients’ style and actually doing something realistic about their antics.

  • Another useless psychiatric “disease” with an equally useless treatment. There are a number of garden variety sources of hyperactivity involving things like allergic reactions and food sensitivities, nutritional and glandular problems. Most physically serious is probably heavy metal poisoning (think of having a hyperactive child in Flint). Psych speed isn’t going to treat things like this.

  • On the subject of labels. They’re useful if the label implies courses of actions to take to stay healthy or sane, as do elements of the diabetic label (little or no sucrose, regular meals, exercise). Similar things apply for “schizophrenics”, like avoiding junk food, keeping regular hours, avoiding stimulants (including caffeine), alcohol and hallucinogens, exercising. It would also permit you, if you are negatively labeled, to tell the labelers (for example) how lucky they are to be able to shoot meth until they’re having philosophical discussions with their pets (particularly if they’re animals like goldfish).

  • I’d be careful with my challenges, there, Pat. In dueling protocol, the guy you challenge gets to pick the weapons- you might be unlucky enough to pick a kendo adept, who’d choose katanas (Japanese long swords) as the weapon.

  • When the practitioners aren’t psychiatrists by training or outlook. The only psychiatrist I ever talked to, who wasn’t a jerk, was an internist by training, who had become aware of Theron Randolph’s work with fasting therapy (Randolph was an allergist) and provocative food trials and regulated diets for alleged “mental” patients. He’d trained with Randolph, which involved his own fasting and provocative food testing, and was also familiar with orthomolecular medicine (he told me how to titer my B3 to the proper level).

  • This is because depression isn’t a viable illness unto itself, but a collection of signs and symptoms that has varying causes. The medico has to tease out the correct one(s), so that he/she can use the correct treatment (not musical drugs) from the beginning.

  • The skunk smokers are biological, but they can likely be treated with 1g+ doses of the amino acid L-glutamine, in an effort to restore the nervous system’s glutamate (a neurotransmitter) levels and hopefully, the individual’s awareness. You can’t do much psychotherapy with the delirious, but it’s dangerous to use drugs on someone under the influence of PCP, although old-time megavitamin therapy (1g of B3 TID+ 1g of C TID) might help. You’d likely also continue the glutamine as needed (1g+?)

  • Because they didn’t know the grief Linus Pauling took for publically adopting the notion that we’d function better if we maintained our ascorbate levels similar to those of animals, who, except for primates, guinea pigs and fruit bats, produce their own ascorbate internally at the rate of 3g to 1/2oz. per day, were they human-sized. He’d also chanced upon Hoffer and Osmond’s book, How to Live With Schizophrenia, which advocated using mega C as well as mega B3 in treating this syndrome, spending an entire night reading it all in one sitting.

    As well as hostile publicity, he also had to debate various “experts”, until he’d humiliated enough of them to scare away any more wannabe debate “champs”.

  • Very helpful, particularly after stopping it and then starting again after the world became strange once more, as it had throughout my life. My buddies in a mutual assistance group, whose meetings I began to attend, did as well, though some were truly chronic- one had had 200 or so ECT at one time, while I once watched another take 5g of 500mg. niacin tablets with one slurp from a drinking fountain as he was returning from a paranoid episode (over time, which took a couple of months).

    The episode also increased my interest in diet and “cerebral allergies”, which led me to be more thoughtful about my diet, although it took quite a while to completely give up caffeine.

    Since I knew I’d have to help myself, I also began to subscribe to the Journal of Orthomolecular Psychiatry and its successor, the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, which I kept up until Abram Hoffer died and I chanced to be in financial difficulties.

  • I wouldn’t be so smug about Linus Pauling if I were Aeon, but have the staff test his hypothesis on themselves over a period of months to years. It’s cheap, easily available and pretty harmless.

  • The above psychiatric antics make me glad I’m a fugitive from Mental Health, and encourage me to stay that way. Of course, the shrinks would regard my taking B3 as a sure sign of my mental incompetence and want to medicate me and/or put me on a course of ECT.

  • I know it’s late, but I’d better mention a paper of Richard Kunin’s a San Francisco MD), who wrote a Journal of Orthomolecular Psychiatry article about treating TD successfully with manganese salts and/or B3 around 30 years ago. This, no doubt, brought terror into the hearts of the orthodox, discussing not only drugless treatments, but also that dreaded word, “niacin”, as a component of such treatments. Kunin is apparently still alive, because he has a web site in which he promotes nutritional treatments of “mental” ailments, which I’m sure no psychiatrist in his right mind would dare scan.

  • No, the mentally ill are evolutionary advances, which is why they have some immunity to cancer and diabetes (unless they’re medicated with psych drugs), plus being resistant to viruses and wound shock. It’s just that their advances are incomplete, being also found in their “sane” first-order relatives, without the confusion coming from being acutely ill.

  • That’s odd. I thought that delusions were an attempt to find meaning in the perceptual changes that were the indicator of a “schizophrenic” state; e.g., that delusions about being watched came from the sensations of being watched or spied upon, particularly when combined with the “audios”, particularly of voices talking about or to you. In any case, the changes came first, followed by the ideation. This is the reason the ideas are so persistent- sufferers are asked to deny the “real” evidence of their own senses.

  • In their books, Hoffer and Osmond mentioned this, which I’ve seen to have some basis in reality. They thought it was due to the presence of excess adrenochrome and adrenolutin, two oxidized (and hallucinogenic) adrenaline derivatives, that influenced peculiarities of experience (yes-traumas can increase them). There could be a variety of sources inducing these chemicals’ production, hence there was no independent “schizophrenia”, as the so-called disease was only a collection of particular signs and symptoms, which could come from any number of sources.

  • It would depend on how he was being treated. You’d probably be right at least 90% of the time, but there are actually potentially important things about diet, (psycho?)chemical exposure, especially drugs, supplements, exercise, etc., about which the disperceptive should be aware. Then he’d likely stay alive, because nobody “had” to make and/or keep him a zombie.

  • This sort of thing might be less common if affected individuals would use diagnostic terminology in a more positive (yet annoying)way-“I didn’t get the flu because I’m schizophrenic, and therefore more resistant to virus diseases than straight people who don’t take vitamin C…” Or-“I won the senior beauty contest because I age more slowly than straight people…”

  • Hello, uprising. One of the things the eugenicists didn’t catch was the positive medical aspects of the Schizophrenia Syndrome; e.g., resistance to viral infections, diabetes and cancer in addition to less likelihood of going into wound shock, and slower processes of aging. These were also found in first order relatives of such individuals.

  • Actually, the earliest psychiatric medicos did a better job before these alleged treatments came into vogue, if they were practitioners used the Quakers’ Moral Treatment instead of the various torments inflicted by guys like Benjamin Rush. There were probably two major reasons germ theory didn’t catch on in Teutonic Europe. One was that Pasteur, its prime originator, was a chemist and not an MD, and secondly, he was French.

  • The fever therapy guys probably thought their treatment was quite humane, because the original version of it involved giving patients malaria, to induce the “therapeutic” high fever that was supposed to kill syphilitic spirochetes. The only drawback was that vivax malaria is a lifelong illness, which flares up every time one’s resistance to diseases is challenged by environmental extremes, such as getting soaked in the rain.

  • International Schizophrenia Foundation. It was a new incarnation of the old Canadian Schizophrenia Foundation, which appeared in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s. I used to be a CSF member so I could get the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine and its predecessor, the Journal of Orthomolecular psychiatry, after I found out I was B3 dependent.

  • madinCanada. The Canadian version of NAMI is a threatened organization, because the ISF, which promotes nutrient therapy, is growing in strength there, if the increasing number of orthomolecular practitioners in that country is any indication, according to the ISF’s practitioner list, which lists pages of such practitioners in every province, instead of a handful throughout the country. That’s why the enthusiastic woman likely was kicked out of the group you attended; she was advocating the techniques of the orthodox group’s arch rivals.

  • Are you talking about Models of Madness, Models of Medicine, co-authored by Humphry Osmond nd Miriam Siegler? That’s the only volume I’ve read that discusses Aesculapian authority at any length (notice spelling, CatNight). I’d suspect these authors would treat Lieberman, et. al. as followers of a muddled model- moral overtones pretending to be medical (“behavioral diagnoses”, etc.).

  • There aren’t that many bloggers on this site familiar with orthomolecular treatments and the qualitative difference between being on neuroleptics and taking B3 and its fellow nutrients, so you’ll be likely to take some grief from those who find psychic meaning in dysperceptions and want to analyze them without really grasping their effect. It’s no big thing- I get flamed every now and then, myself.

  • Carmela- you’re sister’s a neurologist, right? This may not be an item for shrinks, after all, but more in her line. They’re hardly going to be able demonstrate a need for this alleged “treatment” if the cause for the episodes is outside the realm of psychiatry.

  • I don’t know about Pat, but I’d use quantitative psych like my old favorite, the HOD, and physical testing in addition to an initial interview to try to estimate what’s going on in order to individualize the treatment I’m going to use. For example, if I’m with a depressed individual who has an altered sense of smell and taste, I’ll want to use supplemental zinc as part of the treatment. If I had a depressed individual with many distortions of perception, I know I’ll have to deal with the distortions before I can likely get any lasting improvement in the individual’s mood. And if I’m dealing with an individual with few dysperceptions, I send him/her to you, because I know a talking catfish can do a better job with “problems in living” than I can (not that I think you’re a talking catfish, as you’re doubtlessly much more empathic than the catfish could ever be).

  • You’ve got that right. I doubt if any great discoveries will occur soon using this method, as these excursions into brain chemistry pay no attention to known peculiarities outside the brain that effect its functioning; thus the data gathered by this method are always compromised, as the experimenter is trying a unified approach with a sample population that’s actually heterogeneous..

  • It’s clear to me that this guy doesn’t think of “depression” as a syndrome with multiple possible causes, but as some kind of independent entity in and of itself, to be treated by “antidepressants” alone. Not very medical to me, but I’m neither a psychiatrist nor a member of the APA, so I’m denied the Divine Insight of these other individuals.