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This is great advice and applicable in a host of contexts not just for children and parents. when you are desperate and seeking support advice like this is like finding a treasure trove!thank you chaya
They start out to make money the rest of the bestial behaviour follows as they ‘mature’ like rotten meat..a forum like this ie a grand round achieves nothing other than self congratulatory reinforcement of inhumane practices
Thank you for responding robert appreciated
My question to Robert .. normally the end of a grand round there is question time did you or anyone else query or question or did you all just sit there like planks nodding ?? that is the place this is won or lost most grand rounds also serve a great lunch hopefully everyone had a good feed off the misery of others less fortunate than them.
Scary article essentially write what you like it will be ignored… as the doctors and vice presidents know best at all times.. they know the best drugs and best restraint and seclusion. fake news is 100% correct.. another nami piece of marketing pad short for patients are dumb….
martha’s writing was truly beautiful thank you for sharing her work and all good wishes for your journey and in reducing your own drugs x. zoloft and respiridone almost killed my child i am lucky he has escaped the system but the damage done to him is slow to heal
Thank you david inspiring read tapering properly is a full time commitment, good luck moving forward. i am looking forward to buying your book!!
I read it twice and have no idea what he is saying.. not a clue.. you are all being very kind and generous in your praise which i think is quite lovely of you which is the reason i love this site!!
I sent some twitters to them about some of the crap on their site and they blocked me!!! they are so pompous, gloating and self congratulatory i think its called toxic narcissism it would be entertaining if they were not killing people everyday.
Its the patients fault for being treatment resistant …
i wonder if the fake psychiatrist was any worse than the “real “ones ??? watching someone with akathisia who cannot sit for even one minute and being completely ignored by the trick cyclist “it’s just the psychosis lets increase the drugs and add in beta blockers,benzos and sodium valporate…oh and temazepam and 2 anti depressants.. that was the end of our faith in any psychiatrist or engagement with ‘services’ so it was actually a good thing to see him in all his glory that early in the piece and again i wonder if the fake one could’ve been any more cruel,indifferent or manipulative….
Eric brilliant piece as usual so many reminders in here for me of how this evil world wide system works, its lies ,fabrication, indifference,manipulation . and abuse of power.And as much as we can all express our sympathy or empathy to you nothing most of us can do to help you in any way. that is the bitter reality you are the person living thru this horror. Earlier today i was reading a uk piece in the guardian by a psychiatrist about how terrible and upset sectioning people makes them feel _ yeh sure!! anyway thinking of you today from the other side of the world with intense admiration for your bravery and eloquence.
Thank you ekaterina for this beautifully written and so glad you are out and home please keep writing
Best comment yet street photo u made me laugh by bursting the pompous bubbles thank you !
No idea what your point is here in relation to the article at all…….
Exactly bonnie it was just a matter of when i have been wondering for some time when they would go after him. i’m just glad torrey has stopped putting cats brains in buckets!and if its true about his sister i feel very sorry for her just imagine her drug regime….will be interesting to see how Cochrane power struggle plays out but i think we can all work it out personally i avoid all and any scientific articles purporting to give evidence on psych drugs as i see the horrific ‘results’ every day in front of my eyes and that is all the truth and evidence I need. thanks robert for your usual well written piece.
Despondent you are so right. quick to say drug resistant.. and just keep adding drugs till you cant stand up and because its quick and cheap ..
Did a taper involving dilution pipetes and science smug psychiatrist how did you manage that ?? trying to catch me out ‘patronising oh you can do math bs..no one wants you to taper..or come off this stuff
Same false advertising as anti psychotics bunch of jokers…
There is just yourself and you are enough
Thanks for this wonderful article and all the optomistic stories of hope from all of you much love to all x
Fantastic read thank you so much
Ted dont want to be sued simple as that folks.
I so enjoyed this Jeannie thank you
Lovely article thank you so much but depressing for those who cannot access such support
Thanks for sharing Louise hay is confronting material as its basis is self love and extreme self care something we are not good at. Her mirror work book is also excellent take care and best wishes.yes definitely to magnesium I use the oil in foot bowl soaks as well as oral a very comforting and healing element thanks for the reminder bc Harris!!
The only rudeness I have encountered is from arrogant moderators and I do think you fawn in a pathetic way over certain of your favourite professionals . You need to apply some rigour too many of your moderators are ‘professionals.. Which is an inbalance in itself. likes is a bit more populist crap.
First they came for old head… what a vision him being led away defiant to the end
i post a lot on other sites including American psychiatrists professional sites and never get moderated go figure how sad is that…and no one seems bothered here at mod in America.. God forgive you all a prophet is never recognised in their own lifetime they say mad away
They are powerful rich and pathological liars do not try to look for any other meaning there is not one to be had. Also tho there are few alternative options for most people lwrote a haiku about one ‘of them ‘paunch pushing against his plaid shirt casually orders imprisonment for one who is worth one thousand of him’ keep on fighting concerned carer sending you compassion from over the sea.
The article made me angry for various reasons opening paragraph words I’d no idea what they meant orthogonal is that to do with gonads ???. Angry consumers or lived experience people wont get to be invited to events because the people they want there are the passive victims who agree with drugs and restraint and worship the psychiatrists and psychologists and think anyone who doesn’t needs more drugs.
In Australia they even run special courses to help you tell your story what this means is toning it down and being grateful to some person who broke you if you cant lie in this wy you won’t get to go to nothing. The same apologists will be wheeled out time and again t public events to represent the lived experience .. It’s a joke..in fact what will save you is refusal to engage with any organised groups events or professionals and hold on to your anger as it is the purest and best response to what has happened to you it is valid ‘do not look for healing at the feet of those ‘professionals’ who broke you !(with apologies for plagarising to Rupi Kaur) find your support or not outside the main stream as the mainstream will lead you back down an open sewer. Frank is quite right about the emperors nakedness unfortunately the Emperor is also the most powerful individual on earth as he can in prison you,drug you or electrocute you without impunity or review even with his gonads hanging out for all to see!!Keep up the fight you wonderful posters at MIA Oldhead someone else, don’t tone it down keep that anger stoked up..protest and survive that’s what recovery means gird yourself up like warriors as we are fighting for our lives and for people we love do not be cowed or sheep like as we all know what that leads to!much love to all including the authors who really don’t understand.
Niall as usual perfectly nailed
I have dealt with /listened to many australian psychiatrists all completely committed to chemical theory and genetic traits. All besotted with drugs. raising side effects gets you labelled as difficult and antipsychiatry..and more drugs for your family member! entire profession here a disgrace no regulation ..lots of involuntary orders no contemporary or compassionate practice avoid them at all costs. i would be very proud if they refused to publish me it means you speak the truth!
Thank you rossa for your brilliant article inspiring.i went to a workshop with Eleanor longden and she said her mother never gave up on her even when everyone else had. the role of the mother is downplayed in all forums including this site so lovely to hear what you both did and are still doing look forward to more articles from you as most Mother’s have no idea what to do . We feel that we know but we do not trust our instincts in a world that labels us as difficult and part of the problem. Thanks again.
Thanks for the link to this wish washy report some terrible comments in there agree complete waste of money
Soteria is the way forward but it is not going to happen as it has no value or worth or profit for drug companies or psychiatrists. Thank you robert for the great article shame it was hijacked sadly the great public are happy to see people shackled restrained or drugged s it makes them feel safe. A world spiralling out of control dark days indeed
tireless fighter i love your clarity and agree with you completely. the psychologists are just less well paid psychiatrists who went to school for a shorter period. when push comes to shove they will have u locked up for your own good of course. meanwhile condoning and supporting the psychiatrists they revere no challenge no boat rocking no advocacy because they agree there is something wrong with you that needs fixing
too little too late. last week i saw a world famous “expert” having a crafty smoke he told me he was sick, how do you feel now about your career ? i asked “l harmed too many people and their families” my reply “too little too late i hope someone forgives you i can’t” his reply ..”i dont blame you” Things ill done and done to others harm…
what a find the on being site some fantastic items in there
thank you so much for leading me there!
agree with you completely re mental health weeks here in Oz its that time of year just before halloween
lots of patronising lip service events, Schizophrenia Awareness week etc it is hideous and the reality is that no one actually cares there are no services other than meds and enforced involuntary admissions I guess it makes the community feel better about itself so it serves some purpose.
it is very popular here in Australia for cats and dogs – cat psychologists abound and behaviorists who will analyze your pet and prescribe. Cesar Milan with medication in his bag!!
Outdoor cats its high risk as they become dopey and dull in their natural instincts .
thank you Frank
Agree completely there is no alternative treatment out there at all.. you either sort it out yourself or rely on the spawn of the devil to give you drugs ….
Devil and the deep blue sea ..
Completely agree with you the purity of your piece is breathtaking
Elyn Saks is a disgrace people like her are part of the problem not part of the solution
She should know better
Yes Bruce is completely into the idea that he was depressed because his brain chemistry was stuffed up.. its a working class thing that someone cleverer must know the truth..shame on him
I have not listened to a single track of his since then and Carrie Fisher an apologist for the drug industry her stupid brother made a huge prozac pill to carry at her funeral really he has missed the point the drugs killed her you moron and the diabetes and heart disease and maternal abuse by a mother who solicited her out at an early age
Agree with you Oldhead but no one here wants to go there re the actual study have u noticed that ?
Do you know?? what it is ?
Tired of reading thru the garbage trying to find out
i read lots of stuff every week that is discouraging and devastating that i ignore because it is BS
Matt had respect for everyone’s opinion always diligently replied to people,kind and encouraging when others on this site can be less than pleasant.
Very sad news and a reminder of the thin veneer we all have varnishing over our pain and fragility I will never forget his kindness and care.
Peter what a great system sorely needed everywhere these drugs are prescribed please do whatever u can to proliferate world wide
Sadly people are happy to prescribe them but completely indifferent to managing the side effects even when they are life threatening
My son developed severe serotonin syndrome pulse 160 profuse sweating ocular signs etc on zoloft and respiridone taken to emergency and only treated properly thanks to us taking a copy of the John Hunter NSW serotonin syndrome protocol with us and giving it to the doctor who was about to have him locked up as psychotic
he would’ve died in there and I’m sure many people do
tapering you manage on your own as well as you can how can they prescribe these drugs without consequences ??
sorry to hear your story take care of yourself thinking of you you are a very brave woman
thanks Angela so sad to read this and wondering how you will be able to work with Doctors and psychologists who prescribe these drugs like they are sweets and cold turkey people off them and add new ones like it is a lottery.
It has taken almost 3 years to slow taper my son off various z drugs, antid’s, olanzapine, epilim the full cocktail i have seen the akathesia up close and personal, the days of brain zaps and unable to sit still for more than a minute before up again endless walking and the doctor just added in more drugs and threatened him with clozapine IM and said it was all psychosomatic and part of the “illness”..and that i should just let him get on with his job. u can see why these kind of people go in for torturing and interrogating jobs..
If I had let him my son would be dead because he said that would’ve been preferable to living with eternal restlessness.
You must keep up this good work and keep on caring for yourself and getting better every day so you can help other people but you must also be incredibly careful not to burn out and give too much of yourself
love and thoughts to youX
sad but true oldhead it is everywhere not just the US that community does not exist those who have it are very lucky and I envy them-
nicotinic acid does the bright red entire upper body thing have swopped to nicotinamide!
Truth there is no such thing as off tangent on this site so not sure what your problem is….
We ramble all over the shop back and forth which is the joy of the site go with the flow there is room for all views and the fluidity is what keeps it interesting!!
great article – AND there is no sign of you slowing down or backing off which in australia is usually what happens- so good on you for your tenacity.
I’m just suprised AHPRA have not come after you for something as you are a thorn in the side of the system.
My best friend in the UK has had multiple well over 50 shocks of ECT’, heart failure as a result and drug induced diabetes and osteoporosis and is over 200 Kg in weight.
Tragic to see her – someone should be charged for what they have done to her following post natal depression 25 years ago while her husband had cancer and her baby was born disabled,(not suprising she was depressed )
It is torture pure and simple- we were student nurses 35 years ago and witenssed long ECT lists in the UK at the Midland nerve hospital. We both said “we will never let anyone do that to us ” the naivety of youth!
Anyway Niall keep up the good work it will be a very sad day when you are no longer around as there will be no voice in the wilderness then, no defender for the helpless ones.
great article thank you
have tried the niacin etc but the flushing was painful. At the end of the day you have to try whatever comes to hand but it is hard when you are so isolated in a society that does not care to keep on getting up every day and keeping on going !
I read ur piece with increasing credulity as i went aLONG
U really have no interest in mad people at all
Quite why u have been allowed on this site I don’t know.
Your belief in the genetic eugenics biological model sitting there in ur peals god forgive u and the obsequious response from members of this forum shame on u
really need to get over yourself and go back to whatever u did before and you multiple houses etc while the rest of us just get on with it and avoid enforced imprisonment as best we can
Arron this is a fantastic piece
they have no interest in the actual truth just lies , what suits, an oppressive system whatever they can get away with because they can
I love the first person pieces on MIA because of the guttural honesty that resonates
thank you !
I am in oz too in WA and that sounds so horribly typical. they label they vilify and they love their drugs it is unbelievable,
the well paid chief psychiatrist and the minister for MH purportedly there to ensure protection and balance just sides with his negligent abusive mates who can lock u up whenever they feel like it
Well done u for carrying on it gets very tiring to constantly be fighting this injustice but at least ur not going under
take care of u and yours
kind regards from someone who understands
Does anyone know what happened on the 22nd to Carmela?
these “professionals” can lock you up for as long as they want in a place that is worse than hell
this week in australia on primetime tv we have seen the horror of Lismore Base hopsital psych unit the deaths and cruelty inflicted there by staff who drugged at will secluded at will and spent the night shift watching tv and sleeping while people fell multiple times in the locked cells!
those are your helpers !
the “alternative” helpers as monica says quite rightly can be just as abusive, the do gooding NGO’s with their peer support workers usually part of the problem not the solution, the lived experience people can be as toxic choose carefully who you will share anything at all with
this was a wonderful post Monica and a timely reminder to all of us of the way forward thank you
Here in Australia we have Dr Patrick McGorry leader of the Early psychosis program
what this means is drugs, drugs and more drugs ! he does love his drugs bet he wouldn’t give them to his own family tho ..
the proponents are zealots -on a mission to root out any sign they consider to demonstrate psychosis . they are like the witch finder general or the inquisition.
my family member was once asked why he was watching the trick cyclists hands answer “because you move them about a lot” (this was true i have never seen such an arm waver) this was viewed as evidence of psychosis (the watching and the answer) and drugs increased as a result! last visit to that person
the dr was mad as a cut snake but a very powerful snake and he damaged many many people that year
The McGorry protocol for anyone not wanting to take drugs is a community treatment order, clozapine and or ECT ! truly he wrote that as a protocol and was made Australian of the year for his efforts that year !!
yes they are desperate the Australians like small children
Millions was pored into this program across Australia no money for anything else that might actually help
Those of you who have suffered on this site and say avoid the system and its servants are correct
don’t engage with them there is no point, avoid and work out your own ways forward do not afford them any legitimacy. Turn your back on them but only after you have put two fingers up at them .. they are not fit to wipe your shoes.
I am happy to respond to you off line via my email address [email protected]
drop me a line if you want
brilliant piece, i was a member of ISP”s ( I’m a nurse general trained not Mh thank God and family member who has survived a lot of pressure personal and professional to keep my family afloat and to fight the system) unbelievable stuff vicious and cruel fascist in the extreme. you note i say “was” member of ISPs I got really tired of their turgid journal with its we aren’t like those psychiatrists stuff in fact they are exactly the same just less well paid.. just as keen on drugs and imprisonment really studies dressed up with numbers to make them look like professionals.. little vignettes about some “patient” interspersed best to unsubscribe ….!
keep the good blogs coming matt!
thank you Johanna I found your book the bitterest pill on the horror of anti-psychotic drugs inspiring and it firmly set me on a path that has led to major conflict with the evil that is psychiatry, Never have so few done some much harm to so many and with so little care and zero consequences for them other than earning the big bucks !.. when in doubt increase the drugs .. and ensure nothing else is available so they can continue to label and vilify some of the bravest and nicest people you are ever likely to meet!
nothing will ever steer me from the belief that avoidance of these powerful people ( I use the term loosely) is the best solution for survival. shrink that is what they do shrink you to a one word label
Garth Daniels featured here some months ago who was forcibly given ect against his and family consent in Victoria ‘escaped” to Queensland and is now locked up again being given clozapine by a different shrink..
keep up the good work Johanna it is refreshing that you are genuinely interested in a debate and response and actually post a reply unlike other ‘famous” professionals!
thank you Rufus. As usual a fantastic piece from someone who is actually helping people instead of just talking about it !
You can organise a march but you will just be labelled as mad people because that is what they do … label you and nullify you .. the power is with the psychiatrists and will remain with them because that is how society contains its fear and anxiety.
Most psychiatrists are pathological liars for a start off they have the upper hand here and yes despite people trying to tell us differently at the top of the comments a CTO here in Australia means just that it is an ORDER and if u do not obey u will be formed under the powers of the law and psychiatrically imprisoned for as long as they feel like banging u up for because not wanting drugs that give u diabetes heart disease and an early death must mean there is something very wrong with you!
there are no checks and balances here and there are no alternatives , no Rufus around the corner to help and support u you find the help yourself or u bounce back to the trolley locked and shackled for 97 hours while waiting for a bed ….
Hang on in there people and rufus keep up the good work – eternally grateful to know ur out there X
what is wrong with you people ??
incredible your rudeness
thank you Monica as ever your compassion for others flows through the screen
I love how you remind us that everyone must do this differently there is no recovery by numbers just trial and error and trying again… and the birds in the background so beautiful
so sorry to hear your story and about the loss of your beautiful boy.. it is a very familiar one
We only learn about the alternatives after it is too late and the damage is already done and I dont know how we change that fact.
Its not as though we prepare for this situation or think it will happen so we only come to the alternatives too late and when we are in the thick of it often our first response is fear not awareness
I’m a nurse too..
take care of yourself too
You are very brave and making a difference
much love and thoughts to you karelX
Dear Andri I would love to hear some of your insomnia solutions. This is often a trigger point for my son and one we have never really got to grips with. have tried melatonin and relaxation with limited success maybe you could do another post on it ?? thanks for your story take care
thank you for this. Here in Australia 4 point restraint with straps is very common except quite often it is on a trolley in the middle of the emergency department no curtains, 27 hours tied up or more, 27 hours was described as lucky by the complaints manager as “lots of people are restrained for longer than that” – no one even pretends it is a helping room! and there certainly is no love there. Actually I’m wrong an old lady with a broken hip lying on another trolley beckoned me over “is that your son love ? they have treated him worse than an animal.. he looks like a lovely boy and I’m really sorry for what they have done.” That moment of love from a person in pain who didn’t know me probably saved me that day but those paid to “care” showed only callous indifference.
thank you Terry . Excellent piece. is there a date for the launch of your next book yet ?
I have found Selfhood one of the most inspiring books I have every read it has genuinely changed my life and coping skills i wish I lived in Ireland !!
well everyone its great if you can access open dialogue sadly most people cant so it is a moot point What most people get is tranquilizing drugs that give you a fasting blood of 6.3 and a rubbish made up diagnosis and for some people locked up over and over again so not sure why you all think you can access open dialogue – where are you going for that ??? You are all missing the point in your tidy little world… so lovely… it does not exist you are delusional… these people are all sleeping in doorways in Perth Australia no open dialogue for them…
As the mother of a person with a “label” I am very angry that “treatment”(joke)… in Australia consists solely of massive amounts of drugs …when my son came out of hospital he could not walk without falling over but this was cheap treatment ….my problem was “that i was anti psychiatry well actually I am proud to be anti over paid indifferent cruelty ..
thanks matt keep up the good work …
well done Matt more positive and encouraging dialogue .. as I have said before and will continue to say avoid Psychiatrists and their minions at all costs people! look inside yourself for solutions and ways through this… because that is where the answers lie
thank you Matt for your excellent article it was good to see a wider cross section of responders than is often the case on this site including some family members and your due diligence in replying to people.
I often find the responses quite negative and aggressive and there appears to be no moderation applied at all.. it is very easy to take a hard line about drugs and psychiatry and have a little tantrum about it and them but at the end of the day everyone has do what is right for them and usually with the odds stacked completely against them. So people on this site attacking others for their opinions is not helpful or supportive in any way and in fact you are just emulating the bullying moronic behavior of most psychiatrists and others in the field who do not give a toss about people in the slightest and enjoy locking them up and drugging them to within an inch of their life.
thank you Matt great work and lovely to see you responding to everyone
a much wider cross section of comments than usual including some family members,
essentially for most of us in this boat there are either professionals over drugging,psychiatric imprisonment, labeling of anyone they feel like labeling or nothing at all other than trying to work things out for yourself and avoiding hospitals at all costs.
Thank you for your references list much appreciated take care
amazing post I just read from Australia. Thank you and good luck that you recovery from this toxic crap they fed you while pretending to be “professionals”. Everyone out there the best thing you can do as MIA bloggers advise over us and over is avoid these people…
Large doses of anti-epilepsy drugs such as Epilim are a very popular feature of the first episode psychosis “movement” drug algorithms. They continue to be marketed as “mood stabilisers” tho there is no evidence at all that such a thing exists or is required. how fascinating but very sad that maybe they cause psychosis.
thank you Emily
keep on going, don’t lose heart I appreciated your honesty and I’m sure your clients do too there is so little compassion in the system
John Read’s correspondence reads like my own file of “appeals” in Australia albeit in a different state. All ignored, all fobbed off, labelled as anti psychiatry . No checks ,no balances and no one actually cares because it won’t happen to them or their relatives. They call it the lucky country- lucky if you don’t live here. TS Eliot said human kind cannot bear very much reality here not only can’t we bear it we actively avoid it !
Sadly Australian psychiatry is characterised by over medication, polypharmacy and ilegal detention.if you complain you will be labelled, libelled and villified. As John Read notes the regulatory bodies will merely support those you are complaining about. Essentially bullies with unlimited power. Your best hope is to have as little to do with these ‘people” as possible. Do your own research, find your own supports – dont give up.
Amnesty should adopt Garth Daniels as a prisoner of conscience because that is what he is. Good on you John Read for your support for Garth and his family for which you will not be popular!