It was a white wand — the kind a little girl might have. White ribbon wound round a long straw, at the top of which a double pair of white wings was set. Another more delicate white ribbon looped around the wings, to the front of which was fixed a downy feather, and behind which the ribbon was tied in a bow.
Crusoe was facing her most difficult patient. A man with manic-depressive illness who, when depressed, posed a serious risk of suicide. She had tried all possible medications but none had helped. They seemed, if anything, to make things worse and to prolong the condition. The only thing that had helped in the past was electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) but he was resistant to this. Contemplating what to do, she idly picked up the wand and waved it.
She realized her mistake before he did. She should of course have sought his consent before exposing her patient to any risk. She apologized. He was perplexed; if he wished to get better or she wished to get him better — where was the problem?
“Well,” she said, “It might seem straightforward, but look what happened to Macbeth.”
“But what would I consent to?” he replied. “Do I consent to believing in magic or to your believing in magic or simply to having you wave the wand around?”
“Well in this case,” she said, “simply having me wave the wand around. Look I don’t know whether having the bow or the pom-pom facing you makes a difference, or even whether holding it the right way up or upside down makes a difference. I didn’t chant spells, invoke powers, or connect this manipulation to any belief system, but a wand is a wand. It’s not like reading a horoscope, where your eye might accidentally catch sight of some words but there is no one on the far end of them, and most of us can take or leave these things. I’m on the far end of this.”
“Well,” he said, “whose karma is it that might come back to haunt me — mine or yours? Was Macbeth the victim of the witches or did he undo himself? Makes a difference to any consent form. Actually, you say you didn’t tap into any belief system when waving the wand, but hasn’t mentioning informed consent created the need for informed consent, so that in a sense even before asking me to consent you’d have had to get my consent to having the idea of informed consent raised — but how could you do this?
“If I were elsewhere and you had been idly waving the wand and thinking about me, would you have needed informed consent then or is it just the fact that now that I’ve seen you do it that you need me to indemnify you, as it were?
“And if you’re going to muck around with reality like this, maybe change the structure of the universe, surely you need to get the consent of everyone?”
Crusoe thought about this.
“We’re not talking about turning you into a white rabbit,” she said, “so I can’t see a need to get your wife and family to agree to this. But these days if my employers knew what was going on here, they almost certainly wouldn’t consent — so in this sense getting you to sign a consent form might make my position worse.
“But while you’re most unlikely to end up as a white rabbit, life goes on after this wand is waved, things continue to happen, and waving it just may affect your perception of the sequence of things afterwards. If they go well, fine. But if they go badly, will you begin to wonder about what effect the wand may have had.”
“Now that you’ve mentioned it, I get most of the side effects that are listed in the package inserts. Why haven’t you gotten my consent for all the pills you’ve put me on over the years?” he asked.
“Is there any difference between the way the witches ‘paltered with’ Macbeth ‘in a double sense’ and the way drug companies do with me, or rather with you? At least the witches showed him all the data which is more you can say for the drug companies.”
“I have — I told you about likely problems. You may not have signed a form but by taking them you showed that you agreed.”
“Ah, no you didn’t. You didn’t get me to face the prospect of something going seriously wrong. We both just assumed things would go right, or that we’d be able to manage whatever went wrong. We’re nervous now because we’re not sure we could manage what would happen if the wand went wrong, but it is much more likely that things will go wrong with the pills. All the things that may have been going to happen anyway — things that you’re now worried I might attribute to the wand — would still have happened after the pills, and I’m even more likely to think that they were caused by the pills than by the wand.
“And I don’t just mean things going wrong for me, but waving these pills around you really do produce changes in the fabric of the universe that we can see happening as a consequence of growing pharmaceutical company profits and power — all the women who are going to be persuaded their lives will make sense once their sexual dysfunction is sorted out. Did you get my consent for that?
“And what do I tell my wife about this wand? After all, things only started happening to Macbeth once he told his wife. Will the fact that you’re a woman make a difference to how she views things?”
I think that Dr. Healy has made a great contribution to the Reform movement of biological psychiatry by exposing the fraud and dangers behind explosions in psychiatric diagnostic fads like anxiety, depression and bipolar disorder being tied to new lethal psych drugs on patent like SSRI’s, atypical antipsychotics and so called mood stabilizers amounting to little more than BIG PHARMA ad ploys to push new life destroying stigmas and toxic drugs.
But, many other whistleblowers were also exposing this dangerous fraud as well as other psychiatric dangers, most notably Electroshock or ECT and lobotomy with the most courageous, ethical and energetic, Dr. Peter Breggin, feeling forced to be the conscience of psychiatry when it bought in to the biological medical model and sold out to BIG PHARMA/BUSINESS.
Dr. Peter Breggin questions Dr. Healy’s place in the psychiatric reform movement in the article below because he claims Dr. Healy is exposing the dangers of SSRI’s because he is a great advocate of using ECT instead. Dr. Healy has even written a book about ECT claiming it is very safe and effective while all evidence points to the opposite per Dr. Breggin and many others writing about such brain disabling treatments. I question why Dr. Healy does not make this fact readily obvious in his bio while sneaking in little statements in his emails that when compared to SSRI’s, ECT was the only effective treatment.
As much as I loathe psych drugs, I would risk taking SSRI’s any day of the week before having my brain fried with total loss of memory, cognitive function, ability to work and creativity like all chemical and other lobotomies to make the so called patient “better” in the eyes of the beholder. I also wonder if Dr. Healy has ties to companies making these machines. Dr. Breggin points out in his article below that Dr. Healy has poised himself to replace the existing advocate and crusader for ECT, which I believe makes him very dangerous indeed.
ECT is what drove Ernest Hemingway to suicide once he was tricked into having ECT and found that he not only lost his memory, but also his creativity and ability to write. Though Dr. Healy may claim modern ECT is safer, Dr. Breggin says otherwise, and given Dr. Breggin’s well earned enormous ethics and credibility for many, many years as he stood almost alone against the behemoth of main stream biological psychiatry in bed with BIG PHARMA at great cost, I would trust Dr. Breggin any day.
Here is an article with Dr. Breggin questioning Dr. Healy’s place in the psychiatric reform movement as one of the greatest if not THE greatest ECT enthusiasts and advocates now.
Whose fault is it that people believe that chemical imbalances, bad genes/wiring and other bogus ideas about human suffering and emotional distress/INJURY causes theirs and others’ woes????? PLEEEEEEEEASE!! This is the joint fraud ad ploy jointly perpetrated by the psychiatry, BIG PHARMA, government plutocracy/pathocracy to medicalize human misery to maintain the status quo of the power elite and profit from the suffering they inflict at the same time. Though people have been brainwashed, many are unbrainwashing themselves after seeing through the harm they have suffered due to the fraudulent claims of their oppressors in psychiatry and being validated by reformers trying to change this evil system. So, please don’t use the same evil lies of BIG PHARMA you condemn with regard to drugs to justify and perpetrate your own form of lobotomy due to your patients’ perceived ignorance or stupidity when you claim that you doctors were hoodwinked by the bogus drug study process and other BIG PHARMA ad ploys.
To use Hemingway as an example, despite any great anguish you claim he had, it was only when he felt destroyed by psychiatry and ECT that he killed himself, which is true of many of psychiatry’s victims. That’s why the mental death profession actually includes their iatrogenic inflicted driving their victims to suicide with their life destroying stigmas and lethal drugs that also cause suicide in the junk sicence DSM as part of the victim’s so called mental illness in the perfect crime of totally blaming their victim for psychiatry’s demolition enterprise of eliminating the victim from the face of the earth by brain and or body death.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Here is one of the greatest reformers of psychiatry, Dr. Loren Mosher, and his resignation from the APA IN DISGUST for its bogus, lethal practices.
Dr. Mosher exposes the lies and hypocrisy of psychiatry attacking illegal drugs while Dr. Joanna Montcrief reminds us that psych drugs do the exact same thing as those illegal drugs used to fight a bogus, hypocritical war on drugs. Your point that Hemingway drank by choice in no way compares to having ECT forced on him with lies and trickery as is typical with the mental death profession. Of course, if the lies do not work, fraud and force will always do to push lethal treatments nobody would accept willingly given TOTAL informed consent.
BIG PHARMA was only able to buy out psychiatry with their permission and overzealous enthusiasm to shore up its bogus medical status with the junk science DSM III thanks to the narcissists Spitzer and Frances who created it by treating humans as rock and insect specimens to stigmatize and destroy those targeted with impunity with their sadistic predations as the worse kinds of social control for the power elite in the guise of medicine.
Your examples of chosen behavior or symptoms of a real illness like epilepsy do not impress me in the least since they are not relevant here.
I find it very odd and suspicious that my “relationship” with you has gone from being very impressed with your ethics and seeming concern about lethal psych drugs to being literally SHOCKED by your impressive writing skills to fiercely attack Dr. Breggin and me for not only protesting dangerous ECT but also the fact that Dr. Healy hid his great advocacy of this brain damaging practice from already vulnerable, betrayed psychiatric survivors and other reformers of psychiatry.
This is the exact same “relationship” I have had with Dr. Healy by becoming increasingly impressed with his seeming ethics and taking the usual licks of so called reformers taking on BIG PHARMA with SRRI’s and the selling of bipolar disorder fraud fad epidemic due to the latest poison drugs on patent like Depakote and atypical antipsychotics.
Then, all of a sudden thanks to Dr. Breggin’s warning and the sneaky insertion of ECT as the “only treatment that works for manic depressive illness” (using old bipolar stigma to further hide this noxious comment in plain sight?).
Your diatribe implies that it was Dr. Healy who did all the work and demonstrated all the expertise on SSRI’s shoring up Dr. Breggin’s more subjective views. What an insult to Dr. Breggin and cheap trick to take credit for all of Dr. Breggin’s lifelong courageous, scientific work backed up by what he saw with his own eyes in his long years of practice. Dr. Healy is the first one to say that due to bogus studies that peevade his field, doctors have failed to believe what is before there own eyes, but all of a sudden Dr. Breggin’s years of experience and study is totally discredited in favor of Dr. Healy’s by you. For example, doctors did not need studies to confirm that those taking atypicals were blowing up 100 pounds and more at huge risk to their health that they and BIG PHARMA lied and denied until the lawsuits began.
Anyway, my experience with you so exactly mirrors my experience with Dr. Healy that I believe that you are either Dr. Healy posting in disguise given that witty but cutting dialogue here or a strong advocate of his and ECT or part of the $5 billion dollar ECT industry while suspiciously attacking all psych drugs in the guise of a psychiatric reformer.
Because of psychiatry’s sordid history to dehumanize their patients to the point they could inflict any evil torture and even death in the guise of treatment, it may well be that BIG PHARMA became more corrupted by its dance with the devil of psychiatry rather than the other way around. Consider the stellar reputation of Johnson & Johnson used for textbook cases of maintaining brand image in MBA classes compared to its degradation after working with the likes of “Dr.” Joseph Beiderman who almost singlehandedly created the child ADHD and bipolar fad fraud epidemics to push lethal poisons on children and toddlers no less for his real employers as when he promised Johnson & Johnson positive study results IN ADVANCE for their poison atypical antipsychotics for children. Biederman compared himself with God when interviewed by a journalist which exposes one of many problems with the mental death profession: malignant narcissism.
I gather that Dr. Healy and you (?) would think it a great improvement to lobotomize these children with ECT or other kinds of lobotomy making a great comeback in psychiatry.
I disagree that the problem would be solved if we attack BIG PHARMA since the corruption of medicine from jumping in the lucrative BIG PHARMA bed was also happening with medical device and other corporations pushing ECT, X-ray and other machines and devices that can do more harm than good based on one’s financial interests.
As Robert Whitaker eposes in his books, as long as society uses psychiatry to marginalize, stigmatize, torture and destroy those they deem subhuman, psychiatry has shown its never ending ability to come up with the most evil, deadly, brain damaging, murderous, degrading, sadistic torture and punishment with the pretense of medical treatments for social control and elimination of the unwanted in all pretend democracies.
So, Dr. Healy, ECT Corporate Respresentaative, or whoever you are, I apologize for thinking you were an ethical, concerned person advocating for the so called mentally ill by protesting toxic psych drugs when you were really advocating for yourself and your own deadly treatments like ECT, just another form of lobotomy in “sheep’s clothing.”
Bravo woman!! I wholeheartedly agree.
See Dr. Healy? You do promote ECT. It’s just so damn covert. If one truly felt that a particular procedure was beneficial to people, they would openly discuss it, talk about it’s benefits and do all they could to see that it was available for them. It’s human nature for those that want to help another.
What are you afraid of Dr. Healy?
I think Lori just made a legitimate point and asked a fair question. Would you and Dr. Healy please come down off your lofty pedestal to talk to us mere humans here on a more equal footing, which is the purpose of this web site? Let’s bear in mind that the creator of this web site has devoted a great part of his life to exposing the many harms and betrayals by psychiatry done to their so called patients. I got your barb about MAD IN AMERICA being like the bomb fallout in Hiroshima or how the AIDS epidemic was spread in THE BAND PLAYED ON if I recall correctly. Yet, I think you should be willing to subject yourselves to these toxic treatments for study as you suggested for Dr. Steingaard for atypicals.
Dr. Gaemi/Gamey who makes a living off the bipolar fad fraud might be a good one to consult about ECT as another form of torture for his many “bipolar” victims or patients.
Why bother with this site of psych reformers and would be survivors when there are tons of IG PHARMA, mainstream psychiatry dominated web sites promoting the “facts” that bipolar and other “mental illnesses” are proven to be genetic and any form of toxic torture like lithium or probably even ECT is justified for this life threatening disease that will probably kill you so you won’t commit suicide, so they do prevent suicide by murder I must confess.
Trying to rescue one’s loved ones from the destruction of the so called mental health profession is as close as any one can sit when it comes to coping with this growing nightmare especially if it involves one’s own child!! So, I would say it is the opposite case in that those you claim are sitting on the outside throwing rocks are in fact, the ones on the inside trying to protect their child or other loved ones including themselves from the rocks being hurled and crashed through the windows of the minds, bodies, souls and very humanity of their loved ones and themselves by psychiatry in bed with BIG PHARMA, which is the opposite of “saving lives.”
Yes, Dr. Healy.
I read with horror that children ARE being subjected to ECT lobotomies just like the chemical lobotomies being performed on them daily proving that THE NARCISSISTIC CULTURE (Christopher Lasch) has totally lost its moral compass. So, it is not me who has “gone too far,” but those perpetrating such human depravity with such evil predations on our nation’s children. I have noted Dr. Healy’s participation in books/articles on the menace of the bipolar fraud and drugging of children and appreciate that, but replacing that with the even worse menace of ECT is certainly no solution to this crisis whether he personally forces ECT on children or not while enabling others to perpetrate this crime.
PLEASSSSSSSSSSEEE!!! I have done all too much reading on many issues and subjects, but once I realized that biological psychiatry is total bogus fraud or “the science of lies” per Dr. Szasz, I don’t waste my time reading its lies any more except to keep abreast of the latest fraud fads to avoid like the plague they are with my loved ones and any others I can manage to warn about this evil menace. Yes, the books, THE NARCISSISM EPIDEMIC, WITHOUT CONSCIENCE and many others explain why so many parents and others are so quick and willing to abuse/blame/stigmatize/drug or shock their children and others into submission as psychiatry insists having lost their moral compass if they ever had one.
Your threat that if you/Dr. Healy are angered could have even worse dire consequences for already traumatized helpless patients at your mercy shows that you should not be accusing me of evil, but rather, examine your own malignant narcissism that allows you to believe that you are entitled to exploit, degrade, humiliate, harm, destroy other humans with impunity and rob them of life and liveliness to defend your own evil, sick, empty selves, the real subject of THE PEOPLE OF THE LIE.
I don’t think there is much point in carrying on this one sided discussion to promote ECT on mine and others’ horrific expense here.
By the way if Dr. Healy believes doctors should just confront others in private, why has he taken his drug rants to the public at large? See, there seems to be a double standard in all that you and Dr. Healy say, typical of narcissists.
Freud has been widely discredited as a big fraud for his coverup of the incest that caused him to betray his so called female hysterical patients to appease the power elite caught with their pants down literally like psychiatry does today. Another misogynist fraud in the so called mental health system who even made his own sister’s life hell by having her piano removed because it annoyed him.
Freud also became an addict of cocaine that he prescribed to others and developed mouth cancer from his tobacco pipe. And you are holding him up as a great authority and example of mental health? See FINAL ANALYSIS and AGAINST THERAPY.
And yes I am very aware of psychiatry’s sordid history and plan to infiltrate societies like a fifth column in every social area including our homes and schools and they have succeeded byeond their wildest psychopathic dreams and our worst nightmares as described in the excellent eye opening book, POLITICAL PONEROLOGY.
Your claim I should accept the current mental death profession for fear of something worse is what abusers have been telling their victims throughout human history to rob them of their freedom and dignity.
And while you try to discredit me as a religious zealot, I do not subscribe to the state religious cult of psychiatry or therapeutic state forced on everyone by the latest SNAKES IN SUITS (Dr. Robert Hare, expert on psychopaths).
May I ask by what AUTHORITY you push me around, order me about what to do, think, believe??!! And threaten me as a so called FORMER psych nurse out of the field a long time who just got to dole out toxic meds as her great expertise and role as savior for children?
Who do you think you are?
By the way, the bogus theory that bipolar INVENTED and VOTED IN by psychiatry in bed with with BIG PHARMA was caused by epileptic type seizures to push epileptic drugs on those unlucky enough to get caught up in the latest bipolar fraud fad of psychiatry has been discredited, so using another epileptic theory to promote seizures deliberately induced with ECT as healing is a disgrace! I have seen people having epileptic fits and it isn’t pretty and can be very dangerous/deadly.
No, Dr. Szasz has kindly explained to us that psychiatry took over the inquisition and witch hunts of the Catholic Church. And wise women like Dr. Judith Herman, Dr. Paula Caplan and Dr. Phyllis Chesler have exposed that misogynist psychiatry has mainly preyed on women and pathologized their normal behaviors they would never do to men in similar circumstances. Women are also the major victims of horrific ECT.
You are confusing understanding with disagreement. I have quite a few degrees myself so I understood all your arguments in favor of ECT or “how it works,” but I disagree with most if not all of your claims or don’t think they justify ECT.
Your resorting to vicious attacks shows that you know that you are on shaky ground when promoting ECT or psychiatry in general.
Your argument that people have chosen ECT knowing the full risks and they should have this right is not true or “ethical.” Dr. Healy’s own book on ECT has been critcized for extolling its virtues while neglecting to include what studies have been allowed to prove ECT causes brain damage, memory loss, cognitive deterioration, etc. The book DOCTORS OF DECEPTION by a woman’ who’s life was destroyed by ECT and recommended by Robert Whitaker provides much information to correct Dr. Healy’s one sided view as does Dr. Breggin and others.
I do not pretend to know all about Hemingway, but did read that he was TRICKED into having ECT againt his will which is typical of biological psychiatry using force and fraud to inflict its deadly treatments.
Given your argument that ECT should be widely available for those who choose it as with chemotherapy, this means that all the drugs the FDA took off the market that Dr. Healy includes in his new book, PHARMACRACY, should still be available to people with or without doctors. There is no comparison with any psychiatric treatment/torture to real medicine since the former has laws passed to force its lethal treatments on its victims despite their many protests never mind consent while those in real medicine always have the right to refuse such dangerous remedies like chemo. Since psychiatric patients have been turned into supposed subhumans by psychiatry, they do not have the same protections or rights as supposed full humans in this so called democracy, so in a sense it is really a moot issue until the so called full humans rescue those they stigmatized as subhuman as happened with the Jews.
In keeping with your Seuss analogy, THE SNEECHES is quite apt in that those with yellow stars thought themselves superior to those without the stars, a neat inversion of the many Holocausts against the latest scapegoats to shore up the egos and failures of the majority.
OH, Now you are using the old mental death adult name calling game in the guise of mental illness “help” to intimidate and threaten me. That’s all psychiatry amounts to is a childish, sick game of adult name calling to accuse each other of being crazy and the most powerful one wins.
I will now let you go play your sick dangerous game with someone else since you are not willing to address the many issues I and others have brought up, but rather, you engage in insults and threats to me and others to sidetrack from the real issues at hand here.
You know nothing whatever about my background so you are in no position to compare yourself with me.
And yes, everyone is aware that they must do the Parkinson shuffle and play the slave role to escape psychiatry as various experiments have shown when sane people went to psych wards and pretended to hear voices by saying one word and could not escape unless they agreed they were crazy and took their meds. So much for the sanity of their jailers.
Thanks for reminding me that continuing this discussion with you may be dangerous to my health and freedom, a threat I’ve learned not to take lightly.
I hope everyone on this site sees the threats and insults used against me to avoid the main topic of the dangers of ECT and why real psych reform advocates do not accept or promote it.
GOODBYE. HAVE A NICE DAY.
If you ask me, mainstream psychiatry in its current form is a big fat fraud (just like Freud!), no matter how you twist or turn it around.
And no, I don’t want to have my braincells fried or killed by toxic chemicals at all if I can avoid it, not even a littlebit.
I wish refusing electroshock “treatment” or any other form of lobotomy would be a human right.
First of all, I am not denying anyone their human rights.
If a person in distress wants to go to a mainstream psychiatrist, sure, let him/her go to them.
But be prepared to leave all your human rights at the doorstep of the psychiatrists office.
Second, reason and mainstream psychiatry?
The DSM is not based on evidence nor reason.
One might as well go to a fortune teller or a torturer. What a joke.
The proplem is, it is even worse, becuase they do have in most cases absolute power.
What about those people who say ‘no, I don’t want electroshock “treatment”, but I also don’t believe 2+2=5?’
Well, in the name of humanity they will get their brains fried until they are physically impaired.
Or, if that does not satisfy the “doctor”, they get toxic chemicals or both.
Many psychiatric patients are denied a free will by the doctors, no, they only have a natural will and are subhuman.
That means they also lose their fundamental human rights. In some european countries psychiatric patients lose their right to vote (I don’t know how it is in the United States).
One does not have to be an extremist to see that psychiatry does not care about human rights and that they have way too much power over people and their lives.
The question i have is the DSM stands for Diagnostic Statistical Manuel, right. What statistics, if any, are they drawing from as the basis for their diagnosing and subsequent treatment? I must be “crazy” to ask that question. I think i need a remain a stupid sheep re-uptake inhibitor.
My my, what a lively discussion.
Even if ECT is wrong, dead wrong, why don’t you give Dr. Healy credit for all that he has done to uncover the harm of neuroleptics and antipsychotic drugs instead of trying to crucify him because he thinks that ECT is effective?
Answer: Because ECT is just as damaging as the drugs Dr. Healy comdemns and probably more so in a shorter amount of time since it is a chemical lobotomy. Many studies have proven that ECT is not very effective and the seeming positive effect from brain damage and cognitive dsyfunction is very short lived leaving the person a train wreck with no memory, creativity or abilities that they had before.
I regret that I got too heated in the argument with “Katie,” who suddenly became such an advocate of ECT and Dr. Healy and my seemingly worst enemy. It was as if she was married to the cause, Dr. Healy or his ECT practice.
I agree that Dr. Healy has made tremendous contributions to exposing the fraudulent stigmas and lethal drugs that have caused so much harm to so many people and I have complimented him frequently for that and cited him often. Everywhere I go I see Dr. Healy helping to write books exposing the fraudulent deadly child biopolar epidemic, adding his name to Dr. Paula Caplan’s list of those protesting DSM life destroying stigmas and many other noble deeds. This is exactly why I felt betrayed to find out that Dr. Healy has become the latest and greatest ECT proponent just when many damning studies have been coming out showing the enormous harm of ECT even by one of its most ardent users and promoters who must have felt guilt over the long term harm he did to so many while denying it as they became permanently disabled and lost their careers and very lives due to ECT.
Once again, I think Dr. Healy is a brilliant man who has done a great service in exposing the great potential for much harm of most psychiatric and now, most BIG PHARMA drugs and how the latest fraud fad epidemic of bipolar disorder came about. Therefore, I think he is too brilliant to waste his life promoting lethal ECT and any other barbaric psychiatric treatments when he could be helping to lead the way in the crucially needed reform in how those who are traumatized, severely emotionally distressed or suffering stress breakdowns mainly due to their toxic environments can be helped without destroying them and their whole lives. I believe that more focus most be placed on abusers who have traits labelled as narcissism and psychopathy who cause untold harm to all too many people as described by Dr. Robert Hare, Dr. Martha Stout, Dr. Hervey Cleckley, Dr. John Clarke and many others warning the world about this menace all too long.
I noted that “Katie” and Dr. Healy both enjoy engaging in duels, not a term I hear regularly in my usual travels.
I did not mean to discredit Dr. Healy for what he has done with regard to uncovering these things.
What upsets me is when people are not given a choice about their “treatment” when in the hands of mainstream psychiatry doctors. Especially when it comes to ECT or drug treatment, patients should always have a say in it in my opinion.