No worries, I actually only looked in today to see if there were any new comments.
Yes, the phenomenon – ‘nice’ people doing abhorrent things due to systemic or simply peer group pressure – is extremely eerie and pervasive. I’ll go slightly tangential here and say that it’s one of the main reasons, or at least symptoms, which makes me eternally pessimistic about our species. We each of us need to be philosopher kings and queens – able to reason at a high level, and determine right and wrong from first principles, not doctrine – in order for the barbarically cruel ‘sheep’ behavior humans have always and continue to be guilty of, to finally cease. And alas… perhaps one in a hundred, maybe one in a thousand, possess the intelligence, compassion, and strength of will, to achieve that goal.
Your book sounds intriguing. I had never heard of kintsukouri, but I love the metaphor. I’m assuming you can’t elaborate on it here since the site probably frowns on anything that can be construed as self-promotion, but I will look for the title online and see if I can find it.
I actually tutored stats at university, loved the subject most hated lol. And yes, once I started looking at the primary texts and ‘foundational’ studies in psychology a little more closely during my graduate studies, I was SHOCKED and appalled at the sophistry which was being rubber stamped and published in ‘prestigious’ journals, thereby influencing countless other asinine studies and grants in the process. The blind leading the stupid. And the end result – poor souls receiving ‘treatment’ more damaging than the presenting problems.
Best of luck with your current and future books! I hope to read some of them.
Oh, and thank you for mentioning the movie Proof; had never heard of it, despite being a big Anthony Hopkins fan, so it’s been added to my must-watch list!
Thanks for the very flattering feedback, and my apologies for the delay in responding. I stopped checking to see if there were new comments after the first week or so, my bad.
And yes, while I can’t deny that it has been a relief to share my story publicly, and to see that it has resonated with so many people, the latter fact is of course deeply troubling,even if it’s not surprising. When I sit back and consider the number of lives which have been significantly damaged and/or shortened as a result of the greed and incompetence which CONTINUES to masquerade as ‘science’ in the field of mental ‘health’, I begin to suspect that I’m actually living in a B-grade sci-fi horror film. Oops, I probably shouldn’t be saying such ‘crazy’ things! Or I’ll wind up back in the therapeutic lounge 😛 …
You are TOO right, in that my sister’s condition weighed heavily on me, and very nearly became a self-fulfilling prophecy. As to your question, a big resounding NO, not one of those brilliant professionals who ‘looked after me’ discussed that core issue, or any of the other elephants in the grungy padded room, during those agonizing months. Needless to say, this LACK of intelligent, open dialogue and exploration, or even a drop of curiosity, significantly added to the fear and intense isolation I experienced. The unspoken message, as has been echoed in many of the ‘stories’ I’ve read on this site and elsewhere, seems to be, “you are now a deeply sick individual, and whatever native intelligence, knowledge or insights you thought you possessed, these are of no interest to us, given that we are far more intelligent, rational and of course KNOWLEDGABLE about what ails you than you could ever hope to be. So take these pills and STFU, mental case!” Something along those lines. Thank God I went through all that ‘help’ when I was a young man. Don’t think I would have survived, let alone bounced back, otherwise… 🙂
Thanks for your kind comment, and yes, unfortunately I know of the actual Bedlam hospital in London. Amazing that in some fundamental, scary ways, not THAT much has changed in how patients are treated, and harmed, in almost 1000 years! I will try to find the Jon Krauhsauer interview.
Wow, what a great (but also terrifying and frustrating) story you have too! So many similarities to my own, unfortunately. And I REALLY resonated with the smug, self-assured confidence with which ‘God’ (your ex psychiatrist) proclaimed “thee shall be forced to return to an institution IMMEDIATELY if thou’st are foolish enough to stop ingesting all these ‘helpful’ medications…”, only for your own experience to completely confute said profit. As a side note, I truly wonder HOW MANY times these gurus’ predictions are shown, to THEM, to be completely misguided, and whether that ends up having even the slightest impact on their hubris and willingness to pontificate and predict the next time. My guess is, a LOT, and not at all, in that order…
Anyway, I am very sorry you experienced all that iatrogenic suffering and loss, of finances, time, and irony of ironies, mental health. But I am thrilled for you that you have survived and thrived, and are now free of the hazards you once, reasonably, saw as aids.
All the best, and well done for believing in yourself, and doubting the psychiatric ‘gods’.
Thank you so much for the feedback, and for sharing your own unfortunate experience with the mental health field! It is shocking, isn’t it, how so many of us have had similarly nightmarish experiences, and yet the public remains blissfully unaware of the bedlam that exists within the confines of mental health clinics, or even the harm that is done by individual practitioners on a daily basis. I am glad that your condition was milder, and that you have likewise survived and moved on! It is a shame we lost what valuable time we did from our lives but, given what happens to many unfortunate souls, I suppose we should consider ourselves fortunate…
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and revealing comment. I’m sorry it took me this long to reply. I’ve been going through the comments in order, and it has taken me more time than I expected 🙂
It sounds like you went through a similarly horrible experience, and I am VERY glad for your sake that you at least avoided the additional ‘care’ of being hospitalized and drugged to a nearly catatonic state. I’ve lived through some fairly awful periods in my life, but the surreal nightmare that I experienced during those three months, is without peer. I do hope you have been able to put your own dark chapter behind you, as much as one can.
And yes, you are spot on. I WAS treated, both chemically and behaviorally, like I was indeed suffering from severe psychosis and/or schizophrenia, despite never having a psychotic break. Referring to the tendency by the profession to overprescribe and misdiagnose as a “crime against humanity” is not an overstatement, and I consider myself quite fortunate to have recovered as thoroughly and rapidly as I did, from both the stigma and harmful psychotropics I was given.
I’m not sure to what extent your own perceptions echo my own, but one of the fascinating, and yes troubling, aspects of my ordeal was the sense that the individuals involved (doctors, therapists, admin and general staff, etc) were not ‘evil’ people. They weren’t malicious (for the most part, there was one notable exception), and didn’t mean to be doing harm. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think that everyone there BELIEVED they were doing ‘good work’, helping the unfortunate souls who had lost their way. And while that may sound like ‘good news’ on the surface of it, it actually reflects the true magnitude and immutable nature of the problem, i.e., this is truly a systemic failure, a fictional science informing iatrogenic practices, which are themselves supported by governments, a billion dollar psychotropic industry, and the widespread acceptance of the general public. It will take a LOT to move the needle here.
And thank you for recommending James Davies’s book, I have not read it but will make a point of it. I am sure I will find it both aggravating, and also liberating, much as I find most discussions on these topics. Hard not to; when there is so much needless harm being done to people, being aware of it is both a blessing and a curse.
Thank you for your understanding and compassion Penni, I really appreciate it.
You are quite right, I was undoubtedly suffering from akathisia. However, I’m not convinced that that itself explains the endless need to specifically pace while I was in hospital. One reason I question this is that, after my release, and despite being on the same levels of medication for the first few weeks, that constant need to WALK evaporated the day I left hospital. So I definitely think there was a psychological component to it, above and beyond the motor impulses resulting from the psychotropics themselves. Simply being in that hellhole, made one want to move, relentlessly.
I’m sorry for your own experience with this condition. It is extremely distressing.
Yes, I agree very strongly with what you’ve written here. The problem, ONE of the problems anyway, is that the mental health field has been at pains to PROVE itself a ‘hard science’ for decades. Rather than acknowledging the data which clearly indicates that the very constructs of ‘mental disorders’ are just that – approximations made be people with titles to identify SUPPOSED existing illnesses, rather than valid descriptions of actual cognitive or affective conditions which exist in the wild – the field as a whole has been at pains to minimize said findings (such as the notoriously poor inter-rater reliability for MOST of the DSM disorders). The financial and reputational incentives to keep such data hidden from the public are painfully obvious.
And as your anecdote points out, the general public has been so successfully hoodwinked by this propaganda, that merely questioning the accepted wisdom that “psychiatry is a net positive” can often result in sarcastic and smug dismissal, of the type you received from the person you were conversing with. I’m sorry you experienced that, but alas, don’t take it personally. Once people believe believe in something, they will defend that belief even in the face of contradictory evidence and logic, to their own detriment.
Thanks very much for the feedback. I sure hope it helps at least one person escape, or better still, avoid being hospitalized in the first place. I can’t think of any condition a person could be in, other than perhaps being in very imminent danger of harming themselves or others, where an experience even resembling my own could be considered net beneficial for them.
Yes, I studied Psychology at university and can certainly attest to that tendency, and I am pretty sure it runs true across all the mental health disciplines. A way of working through personal issues perhaps, while also trying to help those whose suffering they can strongly relate to.
Such a thoughtful comment, one that resonates so deeply with me, thank you! As horrific as my experience was, simply hearing from people like yourself who can echoe my very same concerns and criticisms of the mental ‘health’ system, is both a deeply moving and encouraging experience.
You parse out a very critical, and haunting point; that a significant proportion, quite possibly the vast majority, of the poor souls who voluntarily enroll in the macabre experiment which is modern psychiatric care, are suffering what would OTHERWISE be a transient, episodic period of extreme stress and low affect. However, thanks to the ‘help’ they receive, many of these people end up enduring prolonged or even permanent suffering, due to the baneful factors you mentioned above – bogus psych labels, harmful drugs, and the general contempt with which they are treated by these ‘care providers’. The harsh reality is that, daily, thousands of the most vulnerable people in society are fed into a system which is all but guaranteed to make their existing condition WORSE. And, the beat goes on…
I too hail from Canada! And yes, along with my general complaints about our once-great now-3rd world healthcare system, the mental health field is especially frightening. The problems run deep, not just here of course but globally, and I’m sad to say I still don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel, in terms of governments and health administrators even acknowledging, let alone trying to fix, what has been clearly broken for decades. 🙁
Thank you so much for your kind words! And while I’m sorry my story made you emotional, your empathy and compassion are so very much appreciated by me. Thank you. If only there had been some people like yourself among the staff at that hospital…
And no, I don’t mind you asking questions at all! 🙂 I’m happy to say that, from my own self-perception including/as well as all objective measures, yes, all my cognitive and athletic abilities seemed to EVENTUALLY return to their pre-hospitalization levels. As a matter of fact, I played a couple of hours of basketball just yesterday, and as has become tradition for me, finished my workout by making 10 straight free throws, as a nod to the time when I couldn’t hope to make a single one.
Thank you so much, I appreciate your compassion and understanding about that horrible ordeal. It was honestly touch and go for quite a while both during and after that ‘treatment’. I’m not sure if what doesn’t destroy us makes us stronger in every instance, but I have certainly done my best to use what happened to me in order to grow and prosper.
Hi Penni,
No worries, I actually only looked in today to see if there were any new comments.
Yes, the phenomenon – ‘nice’ people doing abhorrent things due to systemic or simply peer group pressure – is extremely eerie and pervasive. I’ll go slightly tangential here and say that it’s one of the main reasons, or at least symptoms, which makes me eternally pessimistic about our species. We each of us need to be philosopher kings and queens – able to reason at a high level, and determine right and wrong from first principles, not doctrine – in order for the barbarically cruel ‘sheep’ behavior humans have always and continue to be guilty of, to finally cease. And alas… perhaps one in a hundred, maybe one in a thousand, possess the intelligence, compassion, and strength of will, to achieve that goal.
Your book sounds intriguing. I had never heard of kintsukouri, but I love the metaphor. I’m assuming you can’t elaborate on it here since the site probably frowns on anything that can be construed as self-promotion, but I will look for the title online and see if I can find it.
I actually tutored stats at university, loved the subject most hated lol. And yes, once I started looking at the primary texts and ‘foundational’ studies in psychology a little more closely during my graduate studies, I was SHOCKED and appalled at the sophistry which was being rubber stamped and published in ‘prestigious’ journals, thereby influencing countless other asinine studies and grants in the process. The blind leading the stupid. And the end result – poor souls receiving ‘treatment’ more damaging than the presenting problems.
Best of luck with your current and future books! I hope to read some of them.
G
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Oh, and thank you for mentioning the movie Proof; had never heard of it, despite being a big Anthony Hopkins fan, so it’s been added to my must-watch list!
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Hi Kevin!
Thanks for the very flattering feedback, and my apologies for the delay in responding. I stopped checking to see if there were new comments after the first week or so, my bad.
And yes, while I can’t deny that it has been a relief to share my story publicly, and to see that it has resonated with so many people, the latter fact is of course deeply troubling,even if it’s not surprising. When I sit back and consider the number of lives which have been significantly damaged and/or shortened as a result of the greed and incompetence which CONTINUES to masquerade as ‘science’ in the field of mental ‘health’, I begin to suspect that I’m actually living in a B-grade sci-fi horror film. Oops, I probably shouldn’t be saying such ‘crazy’ things! Or I’ll wind up back in the therapeutic lounge 😛 …
You are TOO right, in that my sister’s condition weighed heavily on me, and very nearly became a self-fulfilling prophecy. As to your question, a big resounding NO, not one of those brilliant professionals who ‘looked after me’ discussed that core issue, or any of the other elephants in the grungy padded room, during those agonizing months. Needless to say, this LACK of intelligent, open dialogue and exploration, or even a drop of curiosity, significantly added to the fear and intense isolation I experienced. The unspoken message, as has been echoed in many of the ‘stories’ I’ve read on this site and elsewhere, seems to be, “you are now a deeply sick individual, and whatever native intelligence, knowledge or insights you thought you possessed, these are of no interest to us, given that we are far more intelligent, rational and of course KNOWLEDGABLE about what ails you than you could ever hope to be. So take these pills and STFU, mental case!” Something along those lines. Thank God I went through all that ‘help’ when I was a young man. Don’t think I would have survived, let alone bounced back, otherwise… 🙂
Cheers,
G
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Hi Mary,
Thanks for your kind comment, and yes, unfortunately I know of the actual Bedlam hospital in London. Amazing that in some fundamental, scary ways, not THAT much has changed in how patients are treated, and harmed, in almost 1000 years! I will try to find the Jon Krauhsauer interview.
All the best,
G
Report comment
Hi Donna,
Wow, what a great (but also terrifying and frustrating) story you have too! So many similarities to my own, unfortunately. And I REALLY resonated with the smug, self-assured confidence with which ‘God’ (your ex psychiatrist) proclaimed “thee shall be forced to return to an institution IMMEDIATELY if thou’st are foolish enough to stop ingesting all these ‘helpful’ medications…”, only for your own experience to completely confute said profit. As a side note, I truly wonder HOW MANY times these gurus’ predictions are shown, to THEM, to be completely misguided, and whether that ends up having even the slightest impact on their hubris and willingness to pontificate and predict the next time. My guess is, a LOT, and not at all, in that order…
Anyway, I am very sorry you experienced all that iatrogenic suffering and loss, of finances, time, and irony of ironies, mental health. But I am thrilled for you that you have survived and thrived, and are now free of the hazards you once, reasonably, saw as aids.
All the best, and well done for believing in yourself, and doubting the psychiatric ‘gods’.
G
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Hi Gregory,
Thank you so much for the feedback, and for sharing your own unfortunate experience with the mental health field! It is shocking, isn’t it, how so many of us have had similarly nightmarish experiences, and yet the public remains blissfully unaware of the bedlam that exists within the confines of mental health clinics, or even the harm that is done by individual practitioners on a daily basis. I am glad that your condition was milder, and that you have likewise survived and moved on! It is a shame we lost what valuable time we did from our lives but, given what happens to many unfortunate souls, I suppose we should consider ourselves fortunate…
Take care,
G
Report comment
Hi Penni,
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and revealing comment. I’m sorry it took me this long to reply. I’ve been going through the comments in order, and it has taken me more time than I expected 🙂
It sounds like you went through a similarly horrible experience, and I am VERY glad for your sake that you at least avoided the additional ‘care’ of being hospitalized and drugged to a nearly catatonic state. I’ve lived through some fairly awful periods in my life, but the surreal nightmare that I experienced during those three months, is without peer. I do hope you have been able to put your own dark chapter behind you, as much as one can.
And yes, you are spot on. I WAS treated, both chemically and behaviorally, like I was indeed suffering from severe psychosis and/or schizophrenia, despite never having a psychotic break. Referring to the tendency by the profession to overprescribe and misdiagnose as a “crime against humanity” is not an overstatement, and I consider myself quite fortunate to have recovered as thoroughly and rapidly as I did, from both the stigma and harmful psychotropics I was given.
I’m not sure to what extent your own perceptions echo my own, but one of the fascinating, and yes troubling, aspects of my ordeal was the sense that the individuals involved (doctors, therapists, admin and general staff, etc) were not ‘evil’ people. They weren’t malicious (for the most part, there was one notable exception), and didn’t mean to be doing harm. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think that everyone there BELIEVED they were doing ‘good work’, helping the unfortunate souls who had lost their way. And while that may sound like ‘good news’ on the surface of it, it actually reflects the true magnitude and immutable nature of the problem, i.e., this is truly a systemic failure, a fictional science informing iatrogenic practices, which are themselves supported by governments, a billion dollar psychotropic industry, and the widespread acceptance of the general public. It will take a LOT to move the needle here.
And thank you for recommending James Davies’s book, I have not read it but will make a point of it. I am sure I will find it both aggravating, and also liberating, much as I find most discussions on these topics. Hard not to; when there is so much needless harm being done to people, being aware of it is both a blessing and a curse.
Thank you for your understanding and compassion Penni, I really appreciate it.
All the best,
G
Report comment
Hi Nancy,
You are quite right, I was undoubtedly suffering from akathisia. However, I’m not convinced that that itself explains the endless need to specifically pace while I was in hospital. One reason I question this is that, after my release, and despite being on the same levels of medication for the first few weeks, that constant need to WALK evaporated the day I left hospital. So I definitely think there was a psychological component to it, above and beyond the motor impulses resulting from the psychotropics themselves. Simply being in that hellhole, made one want to move, relentlessly.
I’m sorry for your own experience with this condition. It is extremely distressing.
Best,
G
Report comment
Hi,
Yes, I agree very strongly with what you’ve written here. The problem, ONE of the problems anyway, is that the mental health field has been at pains to PROVE itself a ‘hard science’ for decades. Rather than acknowledging the data which clearly indicates that the very constructs of ‘mental disorders’ are just that – approximations made be people with titles to identify SUPPOSED existing illnesses, rather than valid descriptions of actual cognitive or affective conditions which exist in the wild – the field as a whole has been at pains to minimize said findings (such as the notoriously poor inter-rater reliability for MOST of the DSM disorders). The financial and reputational incentives to keep such data hidden from the public are painfully obvious.
And as your anecdote points out, the general public has been so successfully hoodwinked by this propaganda, that merely questioning the accepted wisdom that “psychiatry is a net positive” can often result in sarcastic and smug dismissal, of the type you received from the person you were conversing with. I’m sorry you experienced that, but alas, don’t take it personally. Once people believe believe in something, they will defend that belief even in the face of contradictory evidence and logic, to their own detriment.
Best,
G
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Hi AnnieOakley,
Thanks very much for the feedback. I sure hope it helps at least one person escape, or better still, avoid being hospitalized in the first place. I can’t think of any condition a person could be in, other than perhaps being in very imminent danger of harming themselves or others, where an experience even resembling my own could be considered net beneficial for them.
All the best,
G
Report comment
Hi Molly,
Yes, I studied Psychology at university and can certainly attest to that tendency, and I am pretty sure it runs true across all the mental health disciplines. A way of working through personal issues perhaps, while also trying to help those whose suffering they can strongly relate to.
All the Best,
G
Report comment
Hi Rosalee,
Such a thoughtful comment, one that resonates so deeply with me, thank you! As horrific as my experience was, simply hearing from people like yourself who can echoe my very same concerns and criticisms of the mental ‘health’ system, is both a deeply moving and encouraging experience.
You parse out a very critical, and haunting point; that a significant proportion, quite possibly the vast majority, of the poor souls who voluntarily enroll in the macabre experiment which is modern psychiatric care, are suffering what would OTHERWISE be a transient, episodic period of extreme stress and low affect. However, thanks to the ‘help’ they receive, many of these people end up enduring prolonged or even permanent suffering, due to the baneful factors you mentioned above – bogus psych labels, harmful drugs, and the general contempt with which they are treated by these ‘care providers’. The harsh reality is that, daily, thousands of the most vulnerable people in society are fed into a system which is all but guaranteed to make their existing condition WORSE. And, the beat goes on…
I too hail from Canada! And yes, along with my general complaints about our once-great now-3rd world healthcare system, the mental health field is especially frightening. The problems run deep, not just here of course but globally, and I’m sad to say I still don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel, in terms of governments and health administrators even acknowledging, let alone trying to fix, what has been clearly broken for decades. 🙁
Here’s to a light emerging somehow, someday!
All the Best,
G
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Hi Angela,
Thank you so much for your kind words! And while I’m sorry my story made you emotional, your empathy and compassion are so very much appreciated by me. Thank you. If only there had been some people like yourself among the staff at that hospital…
And no, I don’t mind you asking questions at all! 🙂 I’m happy to say that, from my own self-perception including/as well as all objective measures, yes, all my cognitive and athletic abilities seemed to EVENTUALLY return to their pre-hospitalization levels. As a matter of fact, I played a couple of hours of basketball just yesterday, and as has become tradition for me, finished my workout by making 10 straight free throws, as a nod to the time when I couldn’t hope to make a single one.
All the best Angela,
G
Report comment
Thank you so much, I appreciate your compassion and understanding about that horrible ordeal. It was honestly touch and go for quite a while both during and after that ‘treatment’. I’m not sure if what doesn’t destroy us makes us stronger in every instance, but I have certainly done my best to use what happened to me in order to grow and prosper.
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Thank you Stefan! I hope my story was helpful to you in some way.
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